August 8, 2025 • 19 mins
Every person deserves the opportunity to know Christ, grow in Him, and serve Him with their unique gifts, regardless of ability. This episode explores the complex, interrelated concepts of special interests, hyperfocus, and perseveration (looping) in individuals with autism and ADHD.
• Special interests provide joy, purpose, and self-regulation, potentially leading to expertise and career paths
• Hyperfocus describes intense concentration that can be both a strength and a challenge
• Perseveration involves involuntary repetitive behaviors triggered by stress or anxiety
• Understanding these patterns helps differentiate between passionate interests and anxiety responses
• Creating supportive environments through visual cues, schedules, and sensory accommodations
• Recognizing perseveration as neurological, not stubborn behavior
• Supporting individuals by addressing underlying causes rather than just behaviors
• Breaking down barriers to make Jesus accessible to everyone, regardless of neurodiversity
For deeper dives into these topics and more, check out indispensable-people.com and visit Amazon to purchase the books The Indispensable Kid and Gospel, Accessibility and the Indispensable People.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Hi, my name is Tracy Correll and welcome to
Indispensable People.
I'm a wife, mom, teacher,pastor and missionary, and I
believe that every person shouldhave the opportunity to know
Christ, grow in Him and serveHim with the gifts that he has
given, no matter their ability.
Over 65 million Americans havea disability.
That's 25% of the population.
(00:26):
However, over 80% of them arenot inside the walls of our
church.
Let's dive into those hardtopics biblical foundations,
perceptions and welcome to thisepisode of Indispensable People.
(00:53):
I'm so glad that you have joinedme today.
I want to share with you alittle bit about perseveration,
autism, hyper-focus and highinterest, and although if you
are unfamiliar with some ofthose words, they're going to
seem like they have a similartheme, but we're going to talk
about where they come from, whythey come, what is the impact on
(01:17):
the individual and how do youhelp them through it, or,
especially when it comes tohyper-focus or high interest,
how you can utilize those thingsto gain relationship, access
and develop understanding andbuild an openness with an
(01:37):
individual.
So let me give you an exampleto start with.
So I share a lot about my son,noah, and Noah is super
interested in video games,computers and many things that
(02:01):
are outside of my realm ofunderstanding, mostly because
I'm like a little old lady whodoesn't like technology.
I utilize it, it's just not myfavorite thing and I don't like
to learn how to use new things.
And at one point my son, noah,says to my husband I just really
can't talk to mom about thosethings anymore, mostly because
(02:22):
after a certain point my eyesstart to glaze over because I
don't understand what he'ssaying.
So we have even gotten to thepoint where he's talking about
something that is so far outsideof my understanding.
I said to my husband I thinkhe's making this up and I
Googled whatever he was talkingabout and he was right.
(02:43):
Of course he was right.
Now, don't get me wrong, he'snot always right, but he is very
intelligent when it comes tocomputers and video games and
all of that kind of stuff.
Sometimes the information getsa little jumbled and mixed up,
but overall he has 150-200% plusmore understanding than I do.
(03:07):
So we can look at Noah's specialinterest or high interest or
hyper focus or any of thosekinds of things through a
different lens.
And I wanted to talk with youabout and this impacts
(03:31):
especially those with autism andADHD, where we're going to kind
of define what is a specialinterest, okay, and it's an area
of intense focus and passion.
And it's an area of intensefocus and passion and it says,
like the definitions that I lookup and focus on high interest
(03:52):
and special interest, theyreally speak to autism, but I
really think that this isdefinitely an area for those
with ADHD and at times sometimeslike it changes, which is kind
of the idea of hyper-focus.
So we'll get into that also.
But a special interest can belong-term, it can last for years
(04:16):
, even their entire lifetime,and it provides joy, purpose and
, at times, self-regulation.
And individuals with specialinterests can really develop
deep knowledge, just like Noahin computers, great enthusiasm
(04:37):
for those chosen subjects ortopics or items, and they can
eventually even lead topotential career paths, which is
actually what's happening withNoah.
He will start at Tech HighSchool in just another two weeks
(04:58):
where he will studycybersecurity.
So the next definition thatwe're going to define is
hyperfocus and this refers tolike an intense state of
concentration and absorptioninto a specific interest, task
or activity.
During the hyperfocus theindividual becomes deeply
(05:21):
engrossed, potentially losingtrack of time, ignoring other
environmental cues orresponsibilities, and this
intense focus can be asignificant strength.
Take that hyper focus and putit in employment or you know
something like that, whetherit's writing, all that other
kind of stuff.
But it can lead to neglectingbasic needs, like there'll be
(05:48):
people it will be you know 10o'clock at night and they'll be
like, oh, I didn't even eattoday.
But also it could lead toburnout because of the intensity
of the hyper-focus.
Next we're going to talk aboutper, not perseverance,
(06:09):
perseveration, okay, and soperseveration involves the
involuntary repetition ofactions, thoughts or speech
patterns beyond, like an initialtrigger, and it persists
without a clear stopping point.
Perseveration can manifest invarious ways, such as repetitive
(06:35):
movements, verbal repetitionsor cognitive perseveration,
where you're fixating on yourthoughts and those kinds of
things.
It often serves as a copingmechanism for managing stress,
anxiety and sensorysensitivities, and I will tell
you that a lot of times inmoments of deep stress, noah
will start talking aboutcomputers, so the thing that he
(06:57):
has a special interest onbecomes something that he uses
in that moment.
I will also tell you thatperseveration is a term that's
been around forever, but a newerterm for perseveration,
especially with those diagnosedwith autism, is called looping.
(07:18):
So it's the exact samedefinition the involuntary
repetition of actions, thoughts,speech, patterns, but they just
call it looping.
So there are three kind of waysthat these things are
intertwined.
Okay, so special interests arewhat?
(07:38):
Okay, it refers to what thespecific areas that captivate an
individual.
Hyper-focus describes theintense, how, the profound level
of concentration and immersionthat can occur when engaging
with a special interest, andperseveration represents the
(07:59):
broader tendency towardsrepetitive thoughts or actions,
often triggered by stress oranxiety.
So we need to understand theimpact, because why does this
matter to us, especially ifwe're in a ministry setting?
Well, if we can identify if itis a special interest, something
that they're interested in, orif it's something that they're
(08:23):
super focused on in the moment,or if it is perseveration or
looping, where it's typicallytied to stress or anxiety, then
we can help to understand andinteract appropriately with the
individual.
So the strengths of thesethings intense focus can lead to
(08:45):
expertise, creativity and skilldevelopment.
Right, those all sound likereally great things and they
provide a joy, like a sense ofpurpose, and a lot of times my
son Noah will, I think hecapitalizes on his knowledge in
that area and in some cases Philfeels as though maybe it makes
(09:10):
up for deficits in other areasthat he has, the challenges
associated with these things.
Hyperfocus can lead toneglecting self-care and daily
responsibilities and the loopingcan interfere with daily
functions and socialinteractions and social
(09:34):
interactions, and that this is,you're going to see, stress and
anxiety tied to all of this andthey might be unable to engage
even with a special interest.
Sometimes they'll utilize thatas a part of the perseveration,
but it will be difficult totransition away from that
hyper-focused state when anxietyand stress is connected to it.
(10:02):
So, yeah, we want to make surethat we're embracing special
interests.
We want to encourage andsupport exploration of that,
recognizing their value withinit.
It might be a gifting that theyhave in and through it to help
in any of these cases, usingvisual timers and schedules,
(10:24):
reminders to help the individualwith their time, ensuring that
their basic needs are met andtransitions are smoother.
We can develop some attentionshifting skills by utilizing
(10:44):
those visual timers, visual cues, designated break times to help
individuals shift their focuswhen necessary.
And also, we want to addressthose underlying factors and
recognize that sensorysensitivities, anxiety,
executive functioningdifficulties can contribute to
(11:05):
these behaviors and provideappropriate interventions or
support.
And then, if need be, obviouslythis isn't us as the church
doing this, but seekingprofessional guidance through
counselors or therapies orbehavioral things can help
tailor specific strategies tothat particular individual and
(11:29):
help them manage the hyperfocus,the perseveration or the
looping, and help thoseindividuals thrive.
So here's something else Iwanted to point out to you.
When it comes to perseveration,which again is tied to anxiety
and stress, it's not adeliberate or stubborn act, like
they just keep talking about itand they won't let it go.
(11:51):
It's really automatic andinvoluntary and it stems from
how the brain processesinformation.
So with that, and knowing thatit is an involuntary thing, we
want to figure out, okay, whatare the coping mechanisms that
can be handled.
Now, again, it's typicallytriggered by stress, anxiety,
(12:15):
sensory sensitivities or otherneurological differences, and so
here are some things thatyou'll see with it Some verbal
things repeatedly asking thesame question or fixating on a
particular topic, using the samephrase over and over again.
Behaviorally, you might seerepetitious movements like
(12:37):
flapping or rocking andinsisting on the same routine.
You might, in a cognitiveaspect, you might experience
persistent, unending thoughts orconcerns.
So that's just a more in-depthexplanation of that.
So here's why it's happening.
(12:58):
Okay, especially those withautism and ADHD, the difficulty
with cognitive flexibility.
Right, we know that a charactertrait that comes along with
autism especially is thatflexibility in thought.
So if they're not experiencingthat, they're going to struggle
(13:22):
and that's going to triggergetting stuck on that need for
that schedule that you know.
Order of things, whatever itmight be, when we consider the
sensory sensitivities,perseveration can happen as a
way to cope with thoseoverwhelming sensations and
(13:44):
anxiety, and stress makes itharder to regulate emotions and
behaviors and then them tryingto get back to that baseline of
comfort, of structure, that kindof thing.
And then add to that someinformation processing, where
individuals with autism theyprocess information in kind of a
(14:04):
detailed, focused way, makingit challenging to disengage from
a particular topic or activity.
And the best thing that I canthink of to describe that is
kind of like a black hole whenyou just keep digging and
digging and digging and digginginto that same information.
So how do we take all of thesethings?
(14:24):
Understand what they are, whichwe've defined them, we've
helped to understand some ofthem, but let's focus more on
the looping, the perseveration,and really we look for the root,
underlying causes and then ifwe can address those, then we
can kind of change the direction, the direction, and so when we
(14:55):
look at specific triggers orfunctions, we want to develop
those effective interventions.
So strategies like interruption, distraction, redirection can
be if your brain is focused onone thing, it can't see the
other and we can use that samething as the focus goes from
perseveration to something new.
So if you want to introducesomething new, comfortable,
(15:17):
familiar, interest that's a highinterest thing can bring them
across over to that.
So that can be some things thatwe're not going to do as the
church but can help anindividual on the outside.
Is some sensory integrationtherapy working to help kind of
take away the triggers of thosesensory sensitivities that
(15:40):
they're experiencing?
However, as the church we arenot going to be doing that
therapy.
But if we know the triggers ofthose sensory sensitivities,
then we can either provide anenvironment that supports it, we
can offer tools to helpnavigate that situation
Something as simple as you knownoise-canceling headphones or
(16:01):
sunglasses for bright lights,those kinds of things.
The other thing is is the whenyou're considering cognitive
behavioral strategies, we wantto help the individual develop
some self-awareness and managethe anxiety.
So, for example, I see that youare, so let's take a walk or a
(16:27):
break.
Or, you know, let's go sit inthis chair or you know something
like that that can shift theirfocus away from those thoughts
and things that they're stuck on.
So, again, redirection, youknow, providing a new thought
atmosphere, that kind of thing,and then also understanding that
(16:48):
patience and support willreally take you a long way.
It's important to approachperseveration with patience and
understanding, providing thatsupported environment where
individuals feel safe to explorenew coping mechanisms.
And the thing is sometimes withthe church, the individuals that
we get to serve will come inwith strategies and some will
(17:09):
work and some won't, becauseit's in a completely different
environment.
But also those parents or thecaregivers may be trying to
figure out things as well.
So we have to be supportive inthat situation and maybe
identify something that willhelp and be comforting in those
(17:30):
situations.
And it's all because everyperson should have the
opportunity to know Christ, togrow in Him and to serve Him.
And we do that by breaking downbarriers, making people feel
comfortable and as though theyhave a place, because they do,
and make sure that Jesus isaccessible through the barriers
(17:51):
that are broken down and thechurch that reaches out and
shares the love of Jesus.
And we want to do that, with ourbest understanding, that not
everyone is like us and noteveryone is like them and not
everyone is all the same, andthat's exactly the way that God
had intended, and so we canreach out with the love of Jesus
(18:13):
, make him accessible and makesure that we provide an
environment that says you belong, you are loved and you have a
place and a purpose here.
Do I know everything aboutdisability ministry?
Do I have all the answers?
Have I done everythingperfectly?
I have absolutely not, but weare going to continue this
(18:34):
conversation so that people ofall abilities can have the
opportunity to know Christ, growin Him and serve Him with the
gifts that he has given them.
For deeper dives into thesetopics and more, check out
indispensablepeoplecom and visitAmazon to purchase the books
(18:55):
the Indispensable Kid and Gospel, accessibility and the
Indispensable People.
Hi, my name is Tracy Correll and welcome to
Indispensable People.
I'm a wife, mom, teacher,pastor and missionary, and I
believe that every person shouldhave the opportunity to know
Christ, grow in Him and serveHim with the gifts that he has
given, no matter their ability.
Over 65 million Americans havea disability.
That's 25% of the population.
(00:26):
However, over 80% of them arenot inside the walls of our
church.
Let's dive into those hardtopics biblical foundations,
perceptions and welcome to thisepisode of Indispensable People.
(00:53):
I'm so glad that you have joinedme today.
I want to share with you alittle bit about perseveration,
autism, hyper-focus and highinterest, and although if you
are unfamiliar with some ofthose words, they're going to
seem like they have a similartheme, but we're going to talk
about where they come from, whythey come, what is the impact on
(01:17):
the individual and how do youhelp them through it, or,
especially when it comes tohyper-focus or high interest,
how you can utilize those thingsto gain relationship, access
and develop understanding andbuild an openness with an
(01:37):
individual.
So let me give you an exampleto start with.
So I share a lot about my son,noah, and Noah is super
interested in video games,computers and many things that
(02:01):
are outside of my realm ofunderstanding, mostly because
I'm like a little old lady whodoesn't like technology.
I utilize it, it's just not myfavorite thing and I don't like
to learn how to use new things.
And at one point my son, noah,says to my husband I just really
can't talk to mom about thosethings anymore, mostly because
(02:22):
after a certain point my eyesstart to glaze over because I
don't understand what he'ssaying.
So we have even gotten to thepoint where he's talking about
something that is so far outsideof my understanding.
I said to my husband I thinkhe's making this up and I
Googled whatever he was talkingabout and he was right.
(02:43):
Of course he was right.
Now, don't get me wrong, he'snot always right, but he is very
intelligent when it comes tocomputers and video games and
all of that kind of stuff.
Sometimes the information getsa little jumbled and mixed up,
but overall he has 150-200% plusmore understanding than I do.
(03:07):
So we can look at Noah's specialinterest or high interest or
hyper focus or any of thosekinds of things through a
different lens.
And I wanted to talk with youabout and this impacts
(03:31):
especially those with autism andADHD, where we're going to kind
of define what is a specialinterest, okay, and it's an area
of intense focus and passion.
And it's an area of intensefocus and passion and it says,
like the definitions that I lookup and focus on high interest
(03:52):
and special interest, theyreally speak to autism, but I
really think that this isdefinitely an area for those
with ADHD and at times sometimeslike it changes, which is kind
of the idea of hyper-focus.
So we'll get into that also.
But a special interest can belong-term, it can last for years
(04:16):
, even their entire lifetime,and it provides joy, purpose and
, at times, self-regulation.
And individuals with specialinterests can really develop
deep knowledge, just like Noahin computers, great enthusiasm
(04:37):
for those chosen subjects ortopics or items, and they can
eventually even lead topotential career paths, which is
actually what's happening withNoah.
He will start at Tech HighSchool in just another two weeks
(04:58):
where he will studycybersecurity.
So the next definition thatwe're going to define is
hyperfocus and this refers tolike an intense state of
concentration and absorptioninto a specific interest, task
or activity.
During the hyperfocus theindividual becomes deeply
(05:21):
engrossed, potentially losingtrack of time, ignoring other
environmental cues orresponsibilities, and this
intense focus can be asignificant strength.
Take that hyper focus and putit in employment or you know
something like that, whetherit's writing, all that other
kind of stuff.
But it can lead to neglectingbasic needs, like there'll be
(05:48):
people it will be you know 10o'clock at night and they'll be
like, oh, I didn't even eattoday.
But also it could lead toburnout because of the intensity
of the hyper-focus.
Next we're going to talk aboutper, not perseverance,
(06:09):
perseveration, okay, and soperseveration involves the
involuntary repetition ofactions, thoughts or speech
patterns beyond, like an initialtrigger, and it persists
without a clear stopping point.
Perseveration can manifest invarious ways, such as repetitive
(06:35):
movements, verbal repetitionsor cognitive perseveration,
where you're fixating on yourthoughts and those kinds of
things.
It often serves as a copingmechanism for managing stress,
anxiety and sensorysensitivities, and I will tell
you that a lot of times inmoments of deep stress, noah
will start talking aboutcomputers, so the thing that he
(06:57):
has a special interest onbecomes something that he uses
in that moment.
I will also tell you thatperseveration is a term that's
been around forever, but a newerterm for perseveration,
especially with those diagnosedwith autism, is called looping.
(07:18):
So it's the exact samedefinition the involuntary
repetition of actions, thoughts,speech, patterns, but they just
call it looping.
So there are three kind of waysthat these things are
intertwined.
Okay, so special interests arewhat?
(07:38):
Okay, it refers to what thespecific areas that captivate an
individual.
Hyper-focus describes theintense, how, the profound level
of concentration and immersionthat can occur when engaging
with a special interest, andperseveration represents the
(07:59):
broader tendency towardsrepetitive thoughts or actions,
often triggered by stress oranxiety.
So we need to understand theimpact, because why does this
matter to us, especially ifwe're in a ministry setting?
Well, if we can identify if itis a special interest, something
that they're interested in, orif it's something that they're
(08:23):
super focused on in the moment,or if it is perseveration or
looping, where it's typicallytied to stress or anxiety, then
we can help to understand andinteract appropriately with the
individual.
So the strengths of thesethings intense focus can lead to
(08:45):
expertise, creativity and skilldevelopment.
Right, those all sound likereally great things and they
provide a joy, like a sense ofpurpose, and a lot of times my
son Noah will, I think hecapitalizes on his knowledge in
that area and in some cases Philfeels as though maybe it makes
(09:10):
up for deficits in other areasthat he has, the challenges
associated with these things.
Hyperfocus can lead toneglecting self-care and daily
responsibilities and the loopingcan interfere with daily
functions and socialinteractions and social
(09:34):
interactions, and that this is,you're going to see, stress and
anxiety tied to all of this andthey might be unable to engage
even with a special interest.
Sometimes they'll utilize thatas a part of the perseveration,
but it will be difficult totransition away from that
hyper-focused state when anxietyand stress is connected to it.
(10:02):
So, yeah, we want to make surethat we're embracing special
interests.
We want to encourage andsupport exploration of that,
recognizing their value withinit.
It might be a gifting that theyhave in and through it to help
in any of these cases, usingvisual timers and schedules,
(10:24):
reminders to help the individualwith their time, ensuring that
their basic needs are met andtransitions are smoother.
We can develop some attentionshifting skills by utilizing
(10:44):
those visual timers, visual cues, designated break times to help
individuals shift their focuswhen necessary.
And also, we want to addressthose underlying factors and
recognize that sensorysensitivities, anxiety,
executive functioningdifficulties can contribute to
(11:05):
these behaviors and provideappropriate interventions or
support.
And then, if need be, obviouslythis isn't us as the church
doing this, but seekingprofessional guidance through
counselors or therapies orbehavioral things can help
tailor specific strategies tothat particular individual and
(11:29):
help them manage the hyperfocus,the perseveration or the
looping, and help thoseindividuals thrive.
So here's something else Iwanted to point out to you.
When it comes to perseveration,which again is tied to anxiety
and stress, it's not adeliberate or stubborn act, like
they just keep talking about itand they won't let it go.
(11:51):
It's really automatic andinvoluntary and it stems from
how the brain processesinformation.
So with that, and knowing thatit is an involuntary thing, we
want to figure out, okay, whatare the coping mechanisms that
can be handled.
Now, again, it's typicallytriggered by stress, anxiety,
(12:15):
sensory sensitivities or otherneurological differences, and so
here are some things thatyou'll see with it Some verbal
things repeatedly asking thesame question or fixating on a
particular topic, using the samephrase over and over again.
Behaviorally, you might seerepetitious movements like
(12:37):
flapping or rocking andinsisting on the same routine.
You might, in a cognitiveaspect, you might experience
persistent, unending thoughts orconcerns.
So that's just a more in-depthexplanation of that.
So here's why it's happening.
(12:58):
Okay, especially those withautism and ADHD, the difficulty
with cognitive flexibility.
Right, we know that a charactertrait that comes along with
autism especially is thatflexibility in thought.
So if they're not experiencingthat, they're going to struggle
(13:22):
and that's going to triggergetting stuck on that need for
that schedule that you know.
Order of things, whatever itmight be, when we consider the
sensory sensitivities,perseveration can happen as a
way to cope with thoseoverwhelming sensations and
(13:44):
anxiety, and stress makes itharder to regulate emotions and
behaviors and then them tryingto get back to that baseline of
comfort, of structure, that kindof thing.
And then add to that someinformation processing, where
individuals with autism theyprocess information in kind of a
(14:04):
detailed, focused way, makingit challenging to disengage from
a particular topic or activity.
And the best thing that I canthink of to describe that is
kind of like a black hole whenyou just keep digging and
digging and digging and digginginto that same information.
So how do we take all of thesethings?
(14:24):
Understand what they are, whichwe've defined them, we've
helped to understand some ofthem, but let's focus more on
the looping, the perseveration,and really we look for the root,
underlying causes and then ifwe can address those, then we
can kind of change the direction, the direction, and so when we
(14:55):
look at specific triggers orfunctions, we want to develop
those effective interventions.
So strategies like interruption, distraction, redirection can
be if your brain is focused onone thing, it can't see the
other and we can use that samething as the focus goes from
perseveration to something new.
So if you want to introducesomething new, comfortable,
(15:17):
familiar, interest that's a highinterest thing can bring them
across over to that.
So that can be some things thatwe're not going to do as the
church but can help anindividual on the outside.
Is some sensory integrationtherapy working to help kind of
take away the triggers of thosesensory sensitivities that
(15:40):
they're experiencing?
However, as the church we arenot going to be doing that
therapy.
But if we know the triggers ofthose sensory sensitivities,
then we can either provide anenvironment that supports it, we
can offer tools to helpnavigate that situation
Something as simple as you knownoise-canceling headphones or
(16:01):
sunglasses for bright lights,those kinds of things.
The other thing is is the whenyou're considering cognitive
behavioral strategies, we wantto help the individual develop
some self-awareness and managethe anxiety.
So, for example, I see that youare, so let's take a walk or a
(16:27):
break.
Or, you know, let's go sit inthis chair or you know something
like that that can shift theirfocus away from those thoughts
and things that they're stuck on.
So, again, redirection, youknow, providing a new thought
atmosphere, that kind of thing,and then also understanding that
(16:48):
patience and support willreally take you a long way.
It's important to approachperseveration with patience and
understanding, providing thatsupported environment where
individuals feel safe to explorenew coping mechanisms.
And the thing is sometimes withthe church, the individuals that
we get to serve will come inwith strategies and some will
(17:09):
work and some won't, becauseit's in a completely different
environment.
But also those parents or thecaregivers may be trying to
figure out things as well.
So we have to be supportive inthat situation and maybe
identify something that willhelp and be comforting in those
(17:30):
situations.
And it's all because everyperson should have the
opportunity to know Christ, togrow in Him and to serve Him.
And we do that by breaking downbarriers, making people feel
comfortable and as though theyhave a place, because they do,
and make sure that Jesus isaccessible through the barriers
(17:51):
that are broken down and thechurch that reaches out and
shares the love of Jesus.
And we want to do that, with ourbest understanding, that not
everyone is like us and noteveryone is like them and not
everyone is all the same, andthat's exactly the way that God
had intended, and so we canreach out with the love of Jesus
(18:13):
, make him accessible and makesure that we provide an
environment that says you belong, you are loved and you have a
place and a purpose here.
Do I know everything aboutdisability ministry?
Do I have all the answers?
Have I done everythingperfectly?
I have absolutely not, but weare going to continue this
(18:34):
conversation so that people ofall abilities can have the
opportunity to know Christ, growin Him and serve Him with the
gifts that he has given them.
For deeper dives into thesetopics and more, check out
indispensablepeoplecom and visitAmazon to purchase the books
(18:55):
the Indispensable Kid and Gospel, accessibility and the
Indispensable People.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.