November 22, 2022 • 44 mins
It may be a surprise to manufacturers that social media advertising can be a strong driver of growing prospects or even conversions. But the rich data in social media is a fertile testing ground for custom audiences. The Industrial Marketer podcast explains.
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Episode Transcript
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Joey Strawn (00:00):
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of
the industrial Marketer Podcast,your place for the tips, tech
trends and tactics forindustrials who care about
driving leads and revenue totheir businesses. This is
exciting. I love being back withyou guys. As as always, I'm one
of your hosts the ever thankfulJoey, the industrial marketer,
(00:22):
and I'm here, wishing mycounterpart a happy Nellsgiving
Hello, hello Nels. How are you?
Nels Jensen (00:30):
Joey? I'm doing fine. How about yourself? Can
you seem like you're in a prettyjolly mood here for the time of
year?
Joey Strawn (00:38):
I am you know, it is this episode we'll be
releasing either you're rightaround Thanksgiving. And we're
here talking about sort of atopic that has been reached to
us a handful of different times,especially with all the news
recently about social media andwho's owning what social media
is, and what's doing happeningwith all the social medias. And
though this, we wanted to reallymake this a big good episode. So
(01:02):
I am excited. I'm happy to onealways be here with you now my
co industrial marketer in crime,talking about these things that
other people aren't reallytalking about to the makers and
shakers and decision makers outin the world of industrial
marketing. I think it's a goodtime and a good place to be
(01:22):
where we're doing and doing whatwe're doing. So yeah, I'm very
jolly, I hope that you'refeeling the good festive mood, I
hope you're ready to talk aboutadvertising and get into some
esoteric idiosyncrasies.
Nels Jensen (01:35):
Absolutely, let's, let's get into it. It's, it's,
uh, hey, it all can work. It'sjust a matter of figuring out
which, which rods you go on andhow you execute. Right?
Joey Strawn (01:48):
Exactly. You know what, and I think that's
probably a very, very good placeto start. We have a fantastic
guest in this is going to bejoining us for the second half
of this episode, Dan, Dan, themedia man, we've had him on he
was on the episode, he was onthe show last season. And he is
here to specifically talk aboutindustrial advertising on social
(02:08):
media. But we want to set thestage a little bit beforehand.
So like, what are we talkingabout when we talk about social
media advertising. And just toset the stage and the easiest
way possible, the easiest way Iknow how is what we're talking
about here is spending money onsocial media channels to have
your content be in front ofthem. You know, a lot of the
(02:31):
different ones have differentmethods, whether it's gonna be a
carousel ad, or a videoplacement or a pop up or an in
feed, or we can go down thatroad and we will with dad, but
at the very base of this now iswhat we're talking about today
is the types of things thatpeople spend money on in social
media to get in front of theiraudiences eyeballs.
Nels Jensen (02:54):
So we're talking about visibility, are we talking
about general audiences and outof sight out of mind? Are we
talking about custom audiencesand targeted audience and trying
to get, you know, people alittle farther down the funnel?
I mean, it's a big broad socialmedia advertising is only
growing in scope andapplications, right?
Joey Strawn (03:15):
You You couldn't you couldn't be more correct. I
mean, if you look at a map nowof like, well, here are all
social media networks thatexists. And here's all the
different ways that you canspend money using them. It's,
it's a bit daunting. So like,you know, the channels that that
people think of, to your point.
Now, some of them like Facebook,are like ubiquitous, like almost
everybody in the entire world,it seems as on Facebook. And so
(03:39):
it's like, well, if we're goingto use Facebook, that's
basically saying, Well, we'rejust going to use the internet.
So targeting becomes extremelyimportant, you know, in a
channel like that, but, youknow, there's other things like,
you know, like, like LinkedIn isa bit more focused around the
business world. Obviously,targeting is needed there too.
But it really does depend onlike, Well, are we doing video
(04:02):
stuff? Or is Tik Tok in thepicture? You know, where? Where
does? Where does it fit in? Andwhat are the channels that
people think of? So I think thatyou're asking the right
questions. Now. It's right offthe bat. I mean, what do you
think of when someone says to uslike, Oh, we're gonna we need to
launch some social media. Yeah.
Nels Jensen (04:21):
I think of myself as being an old school.
Dinosaur, right. You know, Igrew up in like daily newspaper
world and pre internet. But youknow, I guess dinosaurs are kind
of Hypno right. What Mastodonyou know, I mean, exactly. Oh,
man.
Joey Strawn (04:38):
Like now they're a great race.
Nels Jensen (04:39):
It's back into the ice ages, you know? Yeah. So I'm
not answering your question, butI think that's one of the one of
the most challenging thingsabout marketing, you know, is
obviously, you know, selecting,how do you narrow down your
choices, right. How do you goabout Deciding that yes, social
(05:01):
media advertising is a brand, abig, big, huge world and then
just sort of some of thedecisions and figuring out where
you're going to go and howyou're going to do it.
Joey Strawn (05:13):
I am very happy.
You said that now, because oneof the things that I think of
and especially in the world ofb2b advertising, especially even
more in the niche world ofindustrial b2b advertising, you
mentioned yourself as adinosaur, which come on, not
nonsense. But the world that welive in industrial marketing is
made up of people across theentire age spectrum, there is no
(05:35):
one size fits all. And to bequite frank, there is going to
be a go or no go decision that'seven needed on social media
advertising, I am not going tosit here and say that every
industrial marketer into everyad b2b firm or E commerce
company out there has to havemoney in social media. Because
(05:56):
the reality is, is you may not,you know, some of the you really
need to go into it with the Goversus no go mentality, thinking
of well, what are some questionsthat I can ask ahead of time? To
make sure that I'm approachingthis the correct way? A big one?
Are your audiences on socialmedia? The biggest question to
(06:19):
ask is, will you be reaching thepeople you want? If you
advertise in those channels? Youknow, we've mentioned that
Facebook is sort of ubiquitous,like LinkedIn is getting to be
that way, as well, as you canalmost say, Well, definitely, I
can definitely find an audience.
Nels Jensen (06:39):
I was gonna say the answers the answers. Yes. I
think it's more aware. I mean,even Yeah, you know, even
dinosaurs, like me are on socialmedia all the time. Right. So
exactly. And again, but I thinkthat's part of your evaluation.
Yes. You know, the Go versus no,go. You know, how? How well, can
you figure out that match thatthat those concentric circles?
(07:03):
How do they line up? Because,you know, and in many cases,
it's like, it's not justLinkedIn and Facebook, right?
We're talking aboutmanufacturers, makers, creative
people, you know, there's don'tunderestimate the power of
Pinterest or Instagram, youknow, or, you know, certainly
even tick tock
Joey Strawn (07:23):
That's what I've already mentioned. Now, as,
especially in the makers,community, tick tock is a huge
one, the advertising channelsare becoming more open. And so
you know, as of this recording,they're limited but opening in
the future, that won't be anissue, you know, it will be
there will be some level ofadvertising that will be allowed
on it. The other part of this gono go decision is, well, what if
(07:46):
all of our audience is onReddit? And Reddit doesn't allow
for advertising? Well, maybe. Somaybe it's more of an engagement
play on that one? Maybe there'snot money set aside, but it's
personnel or time, part of theno go decision will be? Can we
administer it? Do we have thepersonnel or the time or the
(08:06):
bandwidth as a company, to beengaged and active and to be
lots of authentic media
Nels Jensen (08:15):
To be authentic on that channel? Right?
Joey Strawn (08:17):
Yeah. And so if all of those questions are like,
yes, and you're stepping intothat, then there's a lot of
value it can bring, you know,there are there pros and cons to
every approach and everystrategy, of course, but, you
know, if, if you're dedicated tomaking it work, and you can
narrow down to where youraudience lives within the social
spheres, then do you have a verygood chance of using that money
(08:41):
wisely? If you're thinking aboutit strategically?
Nels Jensen (08:43):
Sure. And I think a couple of those other questions
to ask yourself could certainly,obviously include what are you
trying to accomplish? Right,like, let's write Let's link
this to the current theinitiative that this spend might
be related to maybe it's acampaign, maybe it's a annual
goal or objective for thecompany, you know, so obviously,
you want to, obviously have tobe aligned with the bigger
(09:07):
picture. You know, and thenit's, you know, there's, there's
lots of other ways to slice anddice it after that. But is this
also aligning with your othertactics? You know, the right
deal, don't underestimate thekeyword strategy. You know, it's
important in your content, it'simportant in your search, it's
important in your paid social aswell, you know, well,
Joey Strawn (09:31):
To that, to that end, you know, we talk about SEO
a lot on the show content, Imean, you know, sure a constant
guy and I'm an inbound guy andso, you know, we live in those
worlds of how are things phrasedand how are things written? And
the reality is is you look at itYouTube is the second largest
search engine in the world. Sothe titles of your your ads, the
(09:53):
titles of the, the videos thatyour ads are on, will matter in
the in the things that youradvertising and in the content
that you're putting in front ofpeople, all of those things need
to be thought through in thejourney or the ecosystem that
they're going to be viewed
Nels Jensen (10:10):
It depending upon whom you're trying to reach your
audience, Tik Tok may be thelargest search. It's amazing
analytically that that'stranspired.
Joey Strawn (10:19):
Right? That one and honestly and a again, I have to
say as of this recording,because it's that's one of
those, it's, you know, thegovernment's coming after, and
advertisers are trying to getthe foothold in. So honestly, in
three weeks time, it could be alot different world on what you
can and can't do in the world ofadvertising and tick tock, so I
don't want to step in it tooearly.
Nels Jensen (10:39):
But you're but you're talking about stupidity,
right. But you're also talkingreally, it's not just the value
of social media advertising, butit's also your values and how
they fit into social media.
Because as we've seen with the,you know, at this particular
time of this recording, let'sjust say Twitter is in a bit of
a transition of some kind,
Joey Strawn (11:01):
May not want to put a whole lot of money there right
now.
Nels Jensen (11:05):
Right. And, and but then, in terms of your values,
too, is that, you know, we'vewe've heard, we've seen lots of
advertisers flee from thatplatform. Maybe it's long term,
maybe it's not, but they're justnot sure. They don't want to
take a risk of being next tobeing adjacent to certain types
of content. So yeah, you know,it's not just like, we can talk
(11:26):
a little bit about the values ofsocial media advertising, let's
do that. But just also keep inmind, your values, and do they
fit in with the platform? Right?
Joey Strawn (11:35):
Well, and that's and that really is it becomes to
where you can find value insocial media. We said it early
on it it's kind of ubiquitouspart of our life and our
culture. Now, it's not like itwas 510 years ago, when Oh, this
is a channel that can be ignoredbecause of whatever reason X y&z
Sure, you don't live that wayanymore.
Nels Jensen (11:58):
Clearly, the value social media has, is awareness,
it's like, you know, you'reyou're putting yourself in front
of your prospects and yourcustomers. So they're, you know,
you're reducing the likelihoodof out of sight out of mind. But
it's, it can be much more thanawareness, right? I mean, if
I'm, I may be at home surfing,social media while I'm watching
(12:20):
a ballgame. But that doesn'tmean that it's I'm going to
consider it obtrusive, if I seesomething from that buyer that
I've been researching, you know,during my work hours,
Joey Strawn (12:31):
You're exactly right. And that's where the some
of the value of social mediacomes in as our as a user, our
input equation to social media.
Now, that is one of the thingsthat has been missing from the
advertiser consumer relationshipfor decades is that we, as
advertisers have, you know,focus groups and studies and
surveys, and all sorts of datapoints that try and tell us what
(12:53):
our users like. And oh, thebuyers of our product are 42%,
female, and this age group, orwhatever, and it's all very kind
of sciency. Nowadays, we arevehemently throwing information
at the I like this, and I likethis, and I follow this, and I
(13:14):
am shopping for these things anddoing these things, these are
the bands I follow, these arethe shows that I watch. And
we're telling the socialnetworks, all of that very, very
willingly. So now on the backend us as advertisers, we have
the ability to very heavilytarget very heavily segment, and
(13:34):
know that the messages thatwe're trying to get in front of
people will actually matter tothose people, honestly, the vet
some of the value in socialmedia advertising is for who
you're advertising to, becauselet's be honest, not everyone
may need your supply chainmanagement software. But the
people who do might very muchfind it beneficial. That's like,
(13:59):
Oh, that's a thing that couldsolve a problem I'm having and
they need to know about it. Andit's nice to know that you can
now target them by their jobtitle at a company and their
revenue base. You know, it'sit's good to know that we're
giving that informationwillingly so that we can better
craft messages for people.
Nels Jensen (14:23):
And it's my my sample size is small, right? I'm
not basing this on studies arebased on you know, any kind of
great discovery but I thinksocial media, more advertisers
using social media, get it interms of being authentic and in
(14:44):
crafting, I'm just gonna say aless cringe worthy message. You
know, I still occasionally see Istill occasionally see
television ads, ads on TV, youknow, or streaming whatever you
want to call it nowadays. That Ijust like, roll my eyes and I'm
just like that On, and I seeless of that as social Is that
Is that a fair observation? Doyou think?
Joey Strawn (15:07):
I do. And I think part of that is because of the
agility of social media because,and I'll give you a couple
examples, like if you'rethinking about it in the sense
of, well, a televisioncommercial has to be thought of
written, casted run throughlegal, videotaped pre produced
post produced set, usually, it'sheld for a time because it's
(15:30):
gonna have a distribution datethat launches with campaign,
etc, etc. So there's months, andthere's a lot that you can't
really go back and change what'sin that commercial Pepsi Cola
would have loved to do that ahandful of years ago. But what
you can do on social media isyou can launch something, see
its reaction and then change itwithin that afternoon, like
(15:53):
social allows you to have a veryquick agility. So we're learning
faster and more on the fly. Soin a sense, that is happening.
Now it's this the same way thatWikipedia, you'll see be more
accurate than publishedencyclopedias. Because there's
more people catching the errorsfaster, and with the ability to
(16:14):
change it. And so in a sensethat yeah, that's one of the
values is being able to beconnected to it in an agile way
to to see those trends andadjust accordingly. Now, a
negative of that is that a lotof people react too quickly, or
will focus on like vanitymetrics is like, Oh, my
goodness, we got a lot offollowers, that is the one
(16:36):
that's not really the metricthat you need to be paying
attention to, or, you know,whatever it may be. So a lot of
distraction in social media.
Nels Jensen (16:44):
So what are the other cautionary tales
considerations? When you'remaking this go, no go decision
what what should marketingmanufacturing manufacturing
marketers make sure to accountfor as a potential downside for
social
Joey Strawn (17:01):
A potential downside is it is one of the
flip coin flip. And we'll haveDan talk about this a little bit
more when we get into hissection next, but you know,
there is a chance to spend toolittle, and there's a spent
chance to spend way too much insocial media. And that goes back
to that old adage, I forget whosaid it, but you know, I waste
(17:22):
50% of my marketing spend, theproblem is, I don't know which
50% I'm wasting. And in socialmedia, you can kind of get that
as you can be scared to spend alot. And so you don't spend much
at all, and therefore it doesn'twork. And you're like, ah,
social media advertising isstupid and doesn't work. Or you
can spend way too muchincorrectly, at a quick pace,
(17:45):
because you just get excited.
And then then nothing happens.
And you can be like, Oh, lookhow much money I spent. It's a
waste of money. When reallythere is probably a very,
especially for b2b andindustrial manufacturers and
marketers. There is a middleground of I need to spend a
reasonable amount to reach myaudience. But I need to know so
(18:07):
much where my audience is andwhat they're engaging with
before I even spend that moneyto make it worth it. And that's
where I think narrowing in onthe how do we make it worth it?
Yes. Why would I want to bringDan on.
Nels Jensen (18:21):
So and because of the nature of social and we'll
get to Dan, let me just throwone last thought out there too,
is, you know, have to be willingto change up your creative to
it's not, you know, you're notyou're not very few companies
spend, you know, so much moneyon television advertising, that
you're sick and tired of seeingthe same commercial after three
(18:44):
months, it happens when you goon the same shows all the time,
and you see the same. But it'snot like that's not ubiquitous
with television advertising, orbig what I'll call the big spend
advertising. But just becausesocial might not cost as much
people see it a lot people areon some of these channels
multiple times per day. Sothat's another thing to do
(19:07):
social media advertisingcorrectly. You do have to you do
have to know your metrics reallywell. And you do have to be
willing to change up and keep itfresh, and, you know, keep your
readers engaged. So that's justanother factor. Right?
Joey Strawn (19:26):
One final thing on that, that you made me think of
that. It's It is interesting howit's one of those everything
always changes and everythingalways stays the same. Because
you hear growing up and you hearwith the marketing messages
seven times, someone's got tosee a message seven times to
remember it. So that's why youwanted to have at least one
billboard and one magazinearticle and one newspaper ad and
(19:47):
one you know radio ads like sothey would hear it seven times.
Well now we have the ability forall of those seven interactions
to happen in the palm of theirhand without them leaving in
front of you and those seveninteractions can happen in a
seamless way. It so it's thesame mindset, we're trying to
get to the same ends of themremembering who we are in a sea
(20:08):
of noise. But it's just we wouldif we had had the ability to oh
my goodness, I realized from themorning rush hour to Friday rush
hour that people did not likeour billboard. And we had the
ability to change it over that.
Oh, yeah. How many advertiserswould have loved that? Well, we
have that now. And that's whatthat's what social gives us the
ability to do. I, I'm excited toget Dan on here and get on the
(20:33):
shop floor and really dive intohow do we narrow the benefit for
a decimal?
Nels Jensen (20:40):
Yeah. And I'd love to quiz Dan on how long does it
take for your messaging to havean impact? Because I heard seven
times a long time ago, I heard1618. I just read the other day.
It's like about 45 days, likethe bar keeps the bar keeps
moving. So anyway, we can we canquiz Dan and see what he has to
(21:01):
say on that.
Joey Strawn (21:02):
I think that's perfect. Let's head on down to
the shop floor and see what Danhas to say, and see what sort of
benefits we can we can eke outto him. All right, we're down on
the shop floor. Now we have madeit. And I am so thrilled to be
joined once again by Dan Dan,the media man, Dan, you joined
us last season and we couldn'twait to have you back and talk
(21:24):
more media and social mediaadvertising for industrials. How
are you
Dan Fitzpatrick (21:29):
Doing great, how about yourself?
Joey Strawn (21:31):
Now, I mean, you know, Nelson is just out here,
talking about trends and talkingabout things that are going to
benefit industrial marketers andpeople live in, in this space.
And we're thankful to be doingit this time of year. So again,
thank you for joining us, andwe're gonna we're gonna restrict
ourselves this conversation.
It's not like advertising ingeneral, I know you're the media
(21:54):
expert, but we're going to focuson social media advertising this
time, Dan, because, you know, wewe hear a lot and we see a lot
of social media activity. And wehear about, you know, industrial
companies, manufacturers,specifically thinking about
getting into social mediaadvertising, like, how do you
feel that conversation needs toget started for companies? Like
(22:17):
where do they need to start whenthinking about getting into it
and setting aside budget for it?
Dan Fitzpatrick (22:25):
Yeah, well, great question. Really, what it
comes down to is, when you'rewhen you're doing that pre
planning, you have to askyourself, Well, where is my
audience? That then oftentimes,the answer is are going to be on
social media? Does that meanthey're in by now mode? On
social? Potentially? Likely,also? Likely not. But they're
(22:48):
still there, and they'represent. And there's opportunity
to really start to either engagewith them, or, you know,
generate some impressions andawareness with that community?
Joey Strawn (23:00):
And that's what it's funny that you say that Dan
Nelson, now we're talking at thebeginning of this is that there
always needs to be some versionof a go versus no go decision.
And usually involved in that isthe question of is my audience
or who I'm trying to talk to,even in this ecosystem? Now,
like you said, most of the timenowadays is yes, but you still
(23:22):
need to be asking it, you know?
Dan Fitzpatrick (23:24):
Absolutely.
And, you know, during the preplanning phase, we'll be doing
audience research within each ofthe platforms, and making sure
that the audiences within thoseplatforms match up with the
audiences we want to reach. Andsometimes they're not in both
platforms from a targetingstandpoint, or in a multitude
of, or I should say, sometimesthey're not always, in all of
(23:47):
the platforms, sometimes they'rein maybe just one or two. But
really, what it comes down tois, you know, during your
research, if they're there, it'sa great opportunity to get in
front of
Nels Jensen (23:59):
them. Yeah, Dan, are you talking about just
targeting? Are you talking aboutcustom audiences? And I know,
we're going to talk a lot moreabout custom audiences, but, you
know, the people are so, youknow, social media is so, um,
the present? You know, the, theanswer is usually, yes, people
(24:19):
are on social, it's just amatter of, you know, when and
where.
Dan Fitzpatrick (24:25):
Totally. So, you know, when you're asking
about, okay, how do wedifferentiate between, you know,
the built in baked in targeting,so we understand our persona,
versus a custom audience where,hey, let's say we have an ABM
approach. Let's say we have, youknow, an approach with a
specific job title, or peoplewho have an affinity towards who
(24:48):
have an affinity towards, let'ssay, those are those are
definitely two distinctaudiences, but they they can run
in parallel. And the great thingabout social and the way we use
from a b2b standpoint, is thatwe're always learning from it
because we have access to justvery rich amounts of analytics.
So I talked about, yeah, so Sosomething I've talked about kind
(25:13):
of frequently, and I know, itmight annoy some people at some
point is I like to talk aboutthe customer of tomorrow. Right?
So we know who the customer istoday. But what can we do from a
testing and learning standpoint,to figure out who the customer
might be tomorrow? What marketsmight be available tomorrow? And
social is a really strong placeto start running those
(25:36):
experiments.
Joey Strawn (25:37):
I agree.
Nels Jensen (25:41):
Yeah, what I was gonna say, Joe's gonna jump back
to the question about basicquestions to begin with. So Dan,
you're also talking about theneed to really set goals
because, you know, awareness,you want to be maybe I'm not in
buying mode now, in theindustrial sector, but I will
(26:02):
be, you know, in a few monthsfrom now. So, the beauty of
social, of course, you canalways do the awareness. As I
like to say, you know, you neverwant to be out of sight out of
mind, it's one thing to say, wejust want the low hanging fruit,
we just want the leads of peoplewho are about to buy, you know,
no, that doesn't work that way,you know, you need to be in
(26:23):
front of people, before theydecide to buy, so help us, you
know, goals, goal setting,obviously, anything you're doing
when with, with the, you know, acampaign with the spend, you're
aligning with goals. So how doyou help set goals around paid
social?
Dan Fitzpatrick (26:40):
Yeah, well, well, that's exactly it in the
sense that when we're doing asocial strategy, we're trying to
reach people at different pointsin the funnel with different
content, creative messaging, andmediums. So, you know, from if
we know that, you know, theirpre buying research phase might
(27:02):
take six months, and it mightstart with, you know, queries
around, let's say, governmentregulations, that's really good
awareness based content, wherewe can start bringing people
into the top of the funnel, sothat as they do that research,
you know, we can help, we canhelp our clients kind of guide
them to when they become a morequalified, middle of the funnel
candidate. But we're catchingthem really early in this
(27:24):
instance. But let's saysomebody's more in the middle of
the funnel. And for them, it's,instead of research about
regulatory changes to regulatorypractices that your client can
really address. It's more about,you know, low volume
fabrication, toolingopportunities. So, you know, we
(27:47):
might have specific content thatis, you know, gated and more
speaks more to that answer inthe moment. And that could be
considered more the low hangingfruit, you know, somebody's more
towards the middle or lower partof the funnel. Really, the point
here is that on social, we'reable to target so many different
kinds of people within and wherethey fall in the funnel is will
(28:12):
be different.
Joey Strawn (28:13):
Well, and, Dan, I'm, I was happy to hear you say
that, because one of the thingsI wanted to ask you about today,
and I know, you know, somelisteners will be thinking about
is, you know, what do I need toput in the ads, and you kind of
touched on that, right? There'sit's not just one answer to
like, oh, well, we have to havesome grand 20% off promotion, or
we have to be launching a newiPhone to be worthy of having an
(28:36):
ad, like you mentioned rightthere just going through a
couple examples of some contentpieces that would be valuable,
or possibly, like a video thatsomeone may already have, or you
know, a promotion, but like,what should be in the ads like
it, it sounds like it kind ofwhatever is going to benefit
them most at that stage in thefunnel, honestly.
Dan Fitzpatrick (28:58):
That's exactly it. Yeah. And you know, when we
launch a campaign, ideally, we'dbe testing different types of
creative as to how to, as to howto speak with with these people.
And you know, pretty early on,we'll be able to get some good
learnings about that. And thenwe kind of throttle what what's
working there versus what isn't.
Joey Strawn (29:19):
Now, so you and I talked about that earlier about
the agility of social being oneof its biggest values. I mean,
Dan, we were using the exampleof saying like, Well, if 25
years ago, think of the value ofsomeone who's placing a
billboard, to say, well, by theby early, like Rush Hour and
late afternoon rush hour, welearned that most people don't
(29:41):
like your ad. So we were able tochange it at lunchtime for the
five o'clock rush or like, howbeneficial would that have been,
you know, 2030 years ago? But wehave that ability. Now. Just you
said there's so much you canlearn within, within like
immediately after launch.
Dan Fitzpatrick (30:00):
That's exactly it. And you know, when we talk
about sort of the billboard,television even approach, you
know, that's, that's kind ofmore shotgun versus with. With
social we can get a little moretargeted we can we can use a
right yeah, so to speak.
Joey Strawn (30:16):
And that's let's talk about that, like, let's
talk about how targeted you canget you know, Nelson, I touched
a little bit on that being apower of social is that we give
social platforms so muchinformation about ourselves that
it makes it easier for peoplelike you to get us the right
message. So like, how importantis customization, whether it be
(30:38):
in system tools or pulling likea third party ABM list like you
mentioned?
Dan Fitzpatrick (30:44):
Yeah, so especially with those lists,
it's just so important, becausea good example, with these
lists. And what we like to dois, so we have an ABM list.
That's okay, companies, andlet's say it's five different
job titles, because, again, youknow, a lot of our b2b clients,
they won, there isn't just onedecision makers sort of a team
(31:05):
coming together to make thatdecision. I want to really Yeah,
yeah, committee. So we want toreach sort of a diversity of
folks within there. But we havean ABM list. And you know, we're
paying for that list too. So itis, you know, it's valuable in
that regard. But it's notinclusive of everybody that
could be part of thesecommittees elsewhere. So what we
(31:27):
would do is we'd load this listin, we'd get a pretty good hit
rate. But then we build a lookalike audience off of this as
well. And we'd start testing thesame messaging to the look alike
audience. And then within thatlook alike audience, let's say
that's, that audience isengaging more with our content.
So we can actually start tobreak out and take an examine,
(31:49):
well, what's different betweenthe lookalike audience and our
original audience, we know thatthey have like a 90% affinity.
But honey does the look alikeaudience like Sprite more.
Whereas the original audiencelikes coke. That's a really
valuable learning, because nowwe can say to our ourselves and
our clients, look, we'restarting to see a shift. And
(32:10):
we're starting to see this kindof new market opportunity open
up here, this audience thathappens to like Sprite, actually
really likes your product, too.
Whereas it's not just theaudience that likes Coca Cola.
Joey Strawn (32:23):
Wow, the Yeah, that's I mean, that's, that's
always what we talk about when Ithink we talk about the power of
social media is being able toseek not not only see those
trends, but see them quickly,and then be able to react to
them. You know, it's a, it'sit's a very agile market, as I
think we said that a little bitago, but what you just described
(32:44):
right there, it's reallyexciting to be able to say like,
Okay, we know, these people areimportant to us. And because of
technology, we can take thesepeople, we can build another
list that acts the same way asthese people that we know are
valuable to us to get in frontof new eyeballs. And then based
off learnings from that new setof eyeballs, we're gonna
(33:04):
customize the original audienceto make it even stronger, is
just in it's that cycle ofcontinued learning, you know,
that Kaizen mentality that weall have in the manufacturing
space, of always looking forthose minut adjustments to make
the program work better. And itsounds like that's how you and
your team work. When you'resetting up these media plans.
(33:24):
And especially going intosocial, you have to I would
imagine, you have to pretty bebe pretty on the ball. When it
comes to social advertising,considering people, you know,
people are mad at us Superbowlcommercials, they just yell
obscenities at their screen.
People are mad at your ad, thenthey can type obscenities on
your ad for other people to see.
So it's a little bit of adifferent world.
Dan Fitzpatrick (33:48):
For sure, for sure. You got to keep your eye
gotta keep your eye on things.
Otherwise, you know, stuff canget a little messy. kind of
quick, kind of quick if youdon't, but no,
Nels Jensen (33:59):
But isn't. Isn't that that agility is you can
kind of play offense and defenseat the same time, you can stop
doing things as well as you candouble down on the things that
are working. And one of thethings we were talking about to
you in terms of the planning, sowhat how about integrating your
paid social with your othermessaging? What are what are
(34:21):
what should manufacturingmarketers think about in terms
of the alignment with othermessaging?
Dan Fitzpatrick (34:27):
Yeah, so great question. And really it comes
down to well, what is theaudience's expectations on each
platform? Right? So like anaudience expectation on LinkedIn
might be different than anaudience expectation on
Instagram, as to how they wantto consume a specific type of
content, but even brought in abroadening and out beyond social
(34:51):
you know, what is your audienceexpectation in like a trade
magazine, you know, in printpublication even, it's going to
be way different than than justkind of doing their day to day,
sort of existence within social.
So, you know, you really have tobe cognizant of the fact that
the audience will haveexpectations as to what kind of
(35:12):
messaging and content that theyreact to, based on Channel.
Right.
Joey Strawn (35:21):
And that makes sense. I mean, you know,
crafting the message for theaudience has always been
something that we talked about,but understanding that even
within a universe, crafting themessage for each channel, can
really make a difference. Imean, we talked earlier in the
segment that YouTube is one ofthe fastest growing search
engines on the planet. So ifyou're being you know, using a
(35:42):
method of getting ads into thatsocial sphere, knowing what ads
and which makers in whichtitles, the videos that your,
that your ads are showing up oncan also be very important, just
because of the universe, this,you'll be then existing. And so,
you know, I, as we wrap up here,I know that, you know, people
(36:05):
have questions and fears andconcerns. And, and we always say
there's no one size fits allsolution for anything in
industrial manufacturing. Butwhen it comes to social media
advertising, is there anyscenario in which a company just
shouldn't use it at all?
Dan Fitzpatrick (36:23):
Yeah, and I think we actually just kind of
addressed that in a roundaboutway, which is the expectations.
So one, if your audience isn'tthere, and if your audience not
only is not there, but theirexpectations don't align with
you know, what you can providethem in that moment, then it
(36:44):
doesn't, sometimes it justdoesn't, you know, it doesn't
have to, it doesn't always makesense to move forward with that.
So, you know, you do have tokind of pick your spots for
sure. But that's far between,because at the end of the day,
once we have these customaudience lists, it doesn't cost
anything to upload them. And totest whether or not what kind of
(37:05):
match rate we get. And if we'regetting a strong match rate?
Well, we know that that audienceexists on social. So you know,
they're there. Can we meet themwith the appropriate content and
the right expectation? And ifthe answer is yes, to that,
proceed? If the answer is no,which sometimes it is, you know,
(37:26):
maybe find different mediums,
Joey Strawn (37:28):
Right. And that's actually really, really good
advice. I one of the hack thatwe had used in the past, or that
I will give the audience here.
And Dad, you can slap my hand ifthis is no longer correct. But
we used to even approach it inLinkedIn advertising, because
you can put in feed ads forclick, cost per click, so you
only get charged when peopleclick on it, but they still show
(37:49):
up. So we used to call thosejust like billboard ads, like
we'll put them in the feed,people will see them when they
scroll drive by, but unless theytap on them, you're not getting
charged for anything. It's likeyou're still getting those
eyeballs, but you're nottechnically paying for them, but
their placements there to getthose clicks. As like, you know,
there's they're a little wayslike that, that you can take
advantage and actually get infront of the people. If
(38:12):
awareness. Going back to thething we said at the beginning,
if awareness is one of thosegoals, then there are ways to
use social media where it's nota burden. And it doesn't have to
be, you know, detrimental toyour to your bottom line either.
Now, Dan, we always like to endwith giving people you know, on
the shop floor, like real lifeadvice, I think we've talked a
(38:34):
lot about real scenario so farwith you. But if someone's just
not sure how to get benefit fromsocial ads, or how to start
using that money, what what's apiece of advice that you would
give them?
Dan Fitzpatrick (38:51):
I would probably ask them, you know,
what was the? What I would do isI'd probably start by asking
them, Hey, do you have Instagramyourself? Do you have like, Have
you been on YouTube? When wasthe last time you were there?
And you know, let's just pretendthe answer was I was watching a
video this morning. Okay. Do youremember any of the ads?
(39:14):
Actually? Yeah, I do. It was anad for, you know, a big pen or
something. That's okay. Why doyou think you saw that? I don't
know. It just seemed, you know,whatever the answer may be. The
point is that thatadvertisement, even if it was a
relevant was something that wasseen and resonated in some
(39:36):
capacity. So if you can get pastthe barrier of I don't believe
in this because it's not the waywe've done business in the past.
If you can get past that barrierwith folks, by having them
understand, hey, you actuallysee these all the time and they
do have a lasting impact on you.
Maybe the targeting maybe youweren't the right audience.
Well, that's why we're in thisconversation because we'll help
(39:57):
you find the right audience. Andwe'll dial it in. And once that
occurs, then we'll you know,we'll start to see that
meaningful lift. You know, it'sjust kind of allowing people to
see what's, you know, what'sbeen what's worked on them.
While I might not have evenrealized
Joey Strawn (40:19):
I like that quite a bit because we as industrial
marketers tend to go intothinking about this, trying to
encapsulate the whole and tryingto be like, well, industrial
marketers as a whole writ largedon't like XY and Z. But the
reality is, is all of us workingin these fields are industrials
are industrial marketers. AndDan, to your point, the best
(40:41):
advice probably is personalizeit a little bit more than they
think, than they think theyshould like. As an industrial,
what social networks are you on?
Why are you there? What have youseen that resonated that you
remembered? And why? And if youcan answer those questions for
you, then you can think aboutways to apply those same answers
(41:01):
to your advertising and and useyour advertising to answer those
questions for other people. Ilike bingo. That's a really good
way to think about that.
Nels Jensen (41:13):
Yeah, you're but you're basically talking about
the recipe for authenticity. Youknow, you Joey just reworded you
know, what Dan was talking aboutappropriate content and, you
know, appropriate flip platformwith appropriate expectations.
You know, that's why so many,you know, visuals work on
Instagram, you know, tick tock,whatever. The manufacturers
(41:37):
ultimately are making things,they're creating things. And,
you know, those are greatplatforms for people who are
creative bakers, you know,because it worked on you because
it was authentic, it wasauthentic for your place and
your time, right, the channelyou were on, and your
expectations. So yeah, it's a, Iguess what I'm hearing, Dan, is
(41:59):
the importance of authenticity.
Dan Fitzpatrick (42:04):
Absolutely. I mean, you know, it's, I think
that's a good lesson for anypart of someone's life and
advertising journey.
Joey Strawn (42:14):
Especially with social media like that is the
core of why it exists. in Reno Iwe used to say, if you're not
willing to be social didn'tDon't be on social media. And so
that is the core of and, Dan, toyour point earlier. And I'll
wrap this up in a nice littlebow here is it all comes back to
that context, is the contextthat needs to be presented,
because the channel isinherently social is one of
(42:38):
authenticity, and that message,whatever that is, for your
brand, for your company, foryour promotion, and what you're
putting out there, it needs tofeel that way and resonate that
way within the advertising. AndI think I like that. And Dan, I
think that is something to bethankful for, at this time of
year. So thank you for beinghere and for and for bestowing
(43:03):
your wisdom upon us and lettingus barrage you with questions,
then we're gonna have you backon the show, as always, but
thanks for coming on today.
Dan Fitzpatrick (43:10):
Yeah, totally.
You know, this is the secondtime the first time we talked
about workforce recruitment. Andthat's still a big issue.
Joey Strawn (43:20):
So if you haven't heard that episode, go back in
our archives and listen to it,because trust us, it's still
very relevant.
Dan Fitzpatrick (43:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Joey Strawn (43:30):
Thank you very much, and listeners as always
from nows and myself, thank youso much for listening. This is a
community effort and we asindustrial marketers are trying
to get better together. If youhave thoughts of how you've seen
social media advertising be usedin a successful way. Email us
those stories. You can email usyour questions to those stories
(43:51):
or any comments, you have anemail at podcast at industrial
marketer.com If you aren'talready following us on social
media, please do industrialmarketer you could find us
anywhere social medias are sold.
And then also go to our website,industrial marketer.com and
subscribe. There's a lot ofvery, very sophisticated and
professional and well writtenblogs on a lot of topics that we
(44:13):
as industrial marketers careabout. So reach out, connect.
Let's come together this time ofyear. And until next time, thank
you for listening, and we willtalk to you on the flipside.
Welcome back, everybody to another episode of
the industrial Marketer Podcast,your place for the tips, tech
trends and tactics forindustrials who care about
driving leads and revenue totheir businesses. This is
exciting. I love being back withyou guys. As as always, I'm one
of your hosts the ever thankfulJoey, the industrial marketer,
(00:22):
and I'm here, wishing mycounterpart a happy Nellsgiving
Hello, hello Nels. How are you?
Nels Jensen (00:30):
Joey? I'm doing fine. How about yourself? Can
you seem like you're in a prettyjolly mood here for the time of
year?
Joey Strawn (00:38):
I am you know, it is this episode we'll be
releasing either you're rightaround Thanksgiving. And we're
here talking about sort of atopic that has been reached to
us a handful of different times,especially with all the news
recently about social media andwho's owning what social media
is, and what's doing happeningwith all the social medias. And
though this, we wanted to reallymake this a big good episode. So
(01:02):
I am excited. I'm happy to onealways be here with you now my
co industrial marketer in crime,talking about these things that
other people aren't reallytalking about to the makers and
shakers and decision makers outin the world of industrial
marketing. I think it's a goodtime and a good place to be
(01:22):
where we're doing and doing whatwe're doing. So yeah, I'm very
jolly, I hope that you'refeeling the good festive mood, I
hope you're ready to talk aboutadvertising and get into some
esoteric idiosyncrasies.
Nels Jensen (01:35):
Absolutely, let's, let's get into it. It's, it's,
uh, hey, it all can work. It'sjust a matter of figuring out
which, which rods you go on andhow you execute. Right?
Joey Strawn (01:48):
Exactly. You know what, and I think that's
probably a very, very good placeto start. We have a fantastic
guest in this is going to bejoining us for the second half
of this episode, Dan, Dan, themedia man, we've had him on he
was on the episode, he was onthe show last season. And he is
here to specifically talk aboutindustrial advertising on social
(02:08):
media. But we want to set thestage a little bit beforehand.
So like, what are we talkingabout when we talk about social
media advertising. And just toset the stage and the easiest
way possible, the easiest way Iknow how is what we're talking
about here is spending money onsocial media channels to have
your content be in front ofthem. You know, a lot of the
(02:31):
different ones have differentmethods, whether it's gonna be a
carousel ad, or a videoplacement or a pop up or an in
feed, or we can go down thatroad and we will with dad, but
at the very base of this now iswhat we're talking about today
is the types of things thatpeople spend money on in social
media to get in front of theiraudiences eyeballs.
Nels Jensen (02:54):
So we're talking about visibility, are we talking
about general audiences and outof sight out of mind? Are we
talking about custom audiencesand targeted audience and trying
to get, you know, people alittle farther down the funnel?
I mean, it's a big broad socialmedia advertising is only
growing in scope andapplications, right?
Joey Strawn (03:15):
You You couldn't you couldn't be more correct. I
mean, if you look at a map nowof like, well, here are all
social media networks thatexists. And here's all the
different ways that you canspend money using them. It's,
it's a bit daunting. So like,you know, the channels that that
people think of, to your point.
Now, some of them like Facebook,are like ubiquitous, like almost
everybody in the entire world,it seems as on Facebook. And so
(03:39):
it's like, well, if we're goingto use Facebook, that's
basically saying, Well, we'rejust going to use the internet.
So targeting becomes extremelyimportant, you know, in a
channel like that, but, youknow, there's other things like,
you know, like, like LinkedIn isa bit more focused around the
business world. Obviously,targeting is needed there too.
But it really does depend onlike, Well, are we doing video
(04:02):
stuff? Or is Tik Tok in thepicture? You know, where? Where
does? Where does it fit in? Andwhat are the channels that
people think of? So I think thatyou're asking the right
questions. Now. It's right offthe bat. I mean, what do you
think of when someone says to uslike, Oh, we're gonna we need to
launch some social media. Yeah.
Nels Jensen (04:21):
I think of myself as being an old school.
Dinosaur, right. You know, Igrew up in like daily newspaper
world and pre internet. But youknow, I guess dinosaurs are kind
of Hypno right. What Mastodonyou know, I mean, exactly. Oh,
man.
Joey Strawn (04:38):
Like now they're a great race.
Nels Jensen (04:39):
It's back into the ice ages, you know? Yeah. So I'm
not answering your question, butI think that's one of the one of
the most challenging thingsabout marketing, you know, is
obviously, you know, selecting,how do you narrow down your
choices, right. How do you goabout Deciding that yes, social
(05:01):
media advertising is a brand, abig, big, huge world and then
just sort of some of thedecisions and figuring out where
you're going to go and howyou're going to do it.
Joey Strawn (05:13):
I am very happy.
You said that now, because oneof the things that I think of
and especially in the world ofb2b advertising, especially even
more in the niche world ofindustrial b2b advertising, you
mentioned yourself as adinosaur, which come on, not
nonsense. But the world that welive in industrial marketing is
made up of people across theentire age spectrum, there is no
(05:35):
one size fits all. And to bequite frank, there is going to
be a go or no go decision that'seven needed on social media
advertising, I am not going tosit here and say that every
industrial marketer into everyad b2b firm or E commerce
company out there has to havemoney in social media. Because
(05:56):
the reality is, is you may not,you know, some of the you really
need to go into it with the Goversus no go mentality, thinking
of well, what are some questionsthat I can ask ahead of time? To
make sure that I'm approachingthis the correct way? A big one?
Are your audiences on socialmedia? The biggest question to
(06:19):
ask is, will you be reaching thepeople you want? If you
advertise in those channels? Youknow, we've mentioned that
Facebook is sort of ubiquitous,like LinkedIn is getting to be
that way, as well, as you canalmost say, Well, definitely, I
can definitely find an audience.
Nels Jensen (06:39):
I was gonna say the answers the answers. Yes. I
think it's more aware. I mean,even Yeah, you know, even
dinosaurs, like me are on socialmedia all the time. Right. So
exactly. And again, but I thinkthat's part of your evaluation.
Yes. You know, the Go versus no,go. You know, how? How well, can
you figure out that match thatthat those concentric circles?
(07:03):
How do they line up? Because,you know, and in many cases,
it's like, it's not justLinkedIn and Facebook, right?
We're talking aboutmanufacturers, makers, creative
people, you know, there's don'tunderestimate the power of
Pinterest or Instagram, youknow, or, you know, certainly
even tick tock
Joey Strawn (07:23):
That's what I've already mentioned. Now, as,
especially in the makers,community, tick tock is a huge
one, the advertising channelsare becoming more open. And so
you know, as of this recording,they're limited but opening in
the future, that won't be anissue, you know, it will be
there will be some level ofadvertising that will be allowed
on it. The other part of this gono go decision is, well, what if
(07:46):
all of our audience is onReddit? And Reddit doesn't allow
for advertising? Well, maybe. Somaybe it's more of an engagement
play on that one? Maybe there'snot money set aside, but it's
personnel or time, part of theno go decision will be? Can we
administer it? Do we have thepersonnel or the time or the
(08:06):
bandwidth as a company, to beengaged and active and to be
lots of authentic media
Nels Jensen (08:15):
To be authentic on that channel? Right?
Joey Strawn (08:17):
Yeah. And so if all of those questions are like,
yes, and you're stepping intothat, then there's a lot of
value it can bring, you know,there are there pros and cons to
every approach and everystrategy, of course, but, you
know, if, if you're dedicated tomaking it work, and you can
narrow down to where youraudience lives within the social
spheres, then do you have a verygood chance of using that money
(08:41):
wisely? If you're thinking aboutit strategically?
Nels Jensen (08:43):
Sure. And I think a couple of those other questions
to ask yourself could certainly,obviously include what are you
trying to accomplish? Right,like, let's write Let's link
this to the current theinitiative that this spend might
be related to maybe it's acampaign, maybe it's a annual
goal or objective for thecompany, you know, so obviously,
you want to, obviously have tobe aligned with the bigger
(09:07):
picture. You know, and thenit's, you know, there's, there's
lots of other ways to slice anddice it after that. But is this
also aligning with your othertactics? You know, the right
deal, don't underestimate thekeyword strategy. You know, it's
important in your content, it'simportant in your search, it's
important in your paid social aswell, you know, well,
Joey Strawn (09:31):
To that, to that end, you know, we talk about SEO
a lot on the show content, Imean, you know, sure a constant
guy and I'm an inbound guy andso, you know, we live in those
worlds of how are things phrasedand how are things written? And
the reality is is you look at itYouTube is the second largest
search engine in the world. Sothe titles of your your ads, the
(09:53):
titles of the, the videos thatyour ads are on, will matter in
the in the things that youradvertising and in the content
that you're putting in front ofpeople, all of those things need
to be thought through in thejourney or the ecosystem that
they're going to be viewed
Nels Jensen (10:10):
It depending upon whom you're trying to reach your
audience, Tik Tok may be thelargest search. It's amazing
analytically that that'stranspired.
Joey Strawn (10:19):
Right? That one and honestly and a again, I have to
say as of this recording,because it's that's one of
those, it's, you know, thegovernment's coming after, and
advertisers are trying to getthe foothold in. So honestly, in
three weeks time, it could be alot different world on what you
can and can't do in the world ofadvertising and tick tock, so I
don't want to step in it tooearly.
Nels Jensen (10:39):
But you're but you're talking about stupidity,
right. But you're also talkingreally, it's not just the value
of social media advertising, butit's also your values and how
they fit into social media.
Because as we've seen with the,you know, at this particular
time of this recording, let'sjust say Twitter is in a bit of
a transition of some kind,
Joey Strawn (11:01):
May not want to put a whole lot of money there right
now.
Nels Jensen (11:05):
Right. And, and but then, in terms of your values,
too, is that, you know, we'vewe've heard, we've seen lots of
advertisers flee from thatplatform. Maybe it's long term,
maybe it's not, but they're justnot sure. They don't want to
take a risk of being next tobeing adjacent to certain types
of content. So yeah, you know,it's not just like, we can talk
(11:26):
a little bit about the values ofsocial media advertising, let's
do that. But just also keep inmind, your values, and do they
fit in with the platform? Right?
Joey Strawn (11:35):
Well, and that's and that really is it becomes to
where you can find value insocial media. We said it early
on it it's kind of ubiquitouspart of our life and our
culture. Now, it's not like itwas 510 years ago, when Oh, this
is a channel that can be ignoredbecause of whatever reason X y&z
Sure, you don't live that wayanymore.
Nels Jensen (11:58):
Clearly, the value social media has, is awareness,
it's like, you know, you'reyou're putting yourself in front
of your prospects and yourcustomers. So they're, you know,
you're reducing the likelihoodof out of sight out of mind. But
it's, it can be much more thanawareness, right? I mean, if
I'm, I may be at home surfing,social media while I'm watching
(12:20):
a ballgame. But that doesn'tmean that it's I'm going to
consider it obtrusive, if I seesomething from that buyer that
I've been researching, you know,during my work hours,
Joey Strawn (12:31):
You're exactly right. And that's where the some
of the value of social mediacomes in as our as a user, our
input equation to social media.
Now, that is one of the thingsthat has been missing from the
advertiser consumer relationshipfor decades is that we, as
advertisers have, you know,focus groups and studies and
surveys, and all sorts of datapoints that try and tell us what
(12:53):
our users like. And oh, thebuyers of our product are 42%,
female, and this age group, orwhatever, and it's all very kind
of sciency. Nowadays, we arevehemently throwing information
at the I like this, and I likethis, and I follow this, and I
(13:14):
am shopping for these things anddoing these things, these are
the bands I follow, these arethe shows that I watch. And
we're telling the socialnetworks, all of that very, very
willingly. So now on the backend us as advertisers, we have
the ability to very heavilytarget very heavily segment, and
(13:34):
know that the messages thatwe're trying to get in front of
people will actually matter tothose people, honestly, the vet
some of the value in socialmedia advertising is for who
you're advertising to, becauselet's be honest, not everyone
may need your supply chainmanagement software. But the
people who do might very muchfind it beneficial. That's like,
(13:59):
Oh, that's a thing that couldsolve a problem I'm having and
they need to know about it. Andit's nice to know that you can
now target them by their jobtitle at a company and their
revenue base. You know, it'sit's good to know that we're
giving that informationwillingly so that we can better
craft messages for people.
Nels Jensen (14:23):
And it's my my sample size is small, right? I'm
not basing this on studies arebased on you know, any kind of
great discovery but I thinksocial media, more advertisers
using social media, get it interms of being authentic and in
(14:44):
crafting, I'm just gonna say aless cringe worthy message. You
know, I still occasionally see Istill occasionally see
television ads, ads on TV, youknow, or streaming whatever you
want to call it nowadays. That Ijust like, roll my eyes and I'm
just like that On, and I seeless of that as social Is that
Is that a fair observation? Doyou think?
Joey Strawn (15:07):
I do. And I think part of that is because of the
agility of social media because,and I'll give you a couple
examples, like if you'rethinking about it in the sense
of, well, a televisioncommercial has to be thought of
written, casted run throughlegal, videotaped pre produced
post produced set, usually, it'sheld for a time because it's
(15:30):
gonna have a distribution datethat launches with campaign,
etc, etc. So there's months, andthere's a lot that you can't
really go back and change what'sin that commercial Pepsi Cola
would have loved to do that ahandful of years ago. But what
you can do on social media isyou can launch something, see
its reaction and then change itwithin that afternoon, like
(15:53):
social allows you to have a veryquick agility. So we're learning
faster and more on the fly. Soin a sense, that is happening.
Now it's this the same way thatWikipedia, you'll see be more
accurate than publishedencyclopedias. Because there's
more people catching the errorsfaster, and with the ability to
(16:14):
change it. And so in a sensethat yeah, that's one of the
values is being able to beconnected to it in an agile way
to to see those trends andadjust accordingly. Now, a
negative of that is that a lotof people react too quickly, or
will focus on like vanitymetrics is like, Oh, my
goodness, we got a lot offollowers, that is the one
(16:36):
that's not really the metricthat you need to be paying
attention to, or, you know,whatever it may be. So a lot of
distraction in social media.
Nels Jensen (16:44):
So what are the other cautionary tales
considerations? When you'remaking this go, no go decision
what what should marketingmanufacturing manufacturing
marketers make sure to accountfor as a potential downside for
social
Joey Strawn (17:01):
A potential downside is it is one of the
flip coin flip. And we'll haveDan talk about this a little bit
more when we get into hissection next, but you know,
there is a chance to spend toolittle, and there's a spent
chance to spend way too much insocial media. And that goes back
to that old adage, I forget whosaid it, but you know, I waste
(17:22):
50% of my marketing spend, theproblem is, I don't know which
50% I'm wasting. And in socialmedia, you can kind of get that
as you can be scared to spend alot. And so you don't spend much
at all, and therefore it doesn'twork. And you're like, ah,
social media advertising isstupid and doesn't work. Or you
can spend way too muchincorrectly, at a quick pace,
(17:45):
because you just get excited.
And then then nothing happens.
And you can be like, Oh, lookhow much money I spent. It's a
waste of money. When reallythere is probably a very,
especially for b2b andindustrial manufacturers and
marketers. There is a middleground of I need to spend a
reasonable amount to reach myaudience. But I need to know so
(18:07):
much where my audience is andwhat they're engaging with
before I even spend that moneyto make it worth it. And that's
where I think narrowing in onthe how do we make it worth it?
Yes. Why would I want to bringDan on.
Nels Jensen (18:21):
So and because of the nature of social and we'll
get to Dan, let me just throwone last thought out there too,
is, you know, have to be willingto change up your creative to
it's not, you know, you're notyou're not very few companies
spend, you know, so much moneyon television advertising, that
you're sick and tired of seeingthe same commercial after three
(18:44):
months, it happens when you goon the same shows all the time,
and you see the same. But it'snot like that's not ubiquitous
with television advertising, orbig what I'll call the big spend
advertising. But just becausesocial might not cost as much
people see it a lot people areon some of these channels
multiple times per day. Sothat's another thing to do
(19:07):
social media advertisingcorrectly. You do have to you do
have to know your metrics reallywell. And you do have to be
willing to change up and keep itfresh, and, you know, keep your
readers engaged. So that's justanother factor. Right?
Joey Strawn (19:26):
One final thing on that, that you made me think of
that. It's It is interesting howit's one of those everything
always changes and everythingalways stays the same. Because
you hear growing up and you hearwith the marketing messages
seven times, someone's got tosee a message seven times to
remember it. So that's why youwanted to have at least one
billboard and one magazinearticle and one newspaper ad and
(19:47):
one you know radio ads like sothey would hear it seven times.
Well now we have the ability forall of those seven interactions
to happen in the palm of theirhand without them leaving in
front of you and those seveninteractions can happen in a
seamless way. It so it's thesame mindset, we're trying to
get to the same ends of themremembering who we are in a sea
(20:08):
of noise. But it's just we wouldif we had had the ability to oh
my goodness, I realized from themorning rush hour to Friday rush
hour that people did not likeour billboard. And we had the
ability to change it over that.
Oh, yeah. How many advertiserswould have loved that? Well, we
have that now. And that's whatthat's what social gives us the
ability to do. I, I'm excited toget Dan on here and get on the
(20:33):
shop floor and really dive intohow do we narrow the benefit for
a decimal?
Nels Jensen (20:40):
Yeah. And I'd love to quiz Dan on how long does it
take for your messaging to havean impact? Because I heard seven
times a long time ago, I heard1618. I just read the other day.
It's like about 45 days, likethe bar keeps the bar keeps
moving. So anyway, we can we canquiz Dan and see what he has to
(21:01):
say on that.
Joey Strawn (21:02):
I think that's perfect. Let's head on down to
the shop floor and see what Danhas to say, and see what sort of
benefits we can we can eke outto him. All right, we're down on
the shop floor. Now we have madeit. And I am so thrilled to be
joined once again by Dan Dan,the media man, Dan, you joined
us last season and we couldn'twait to have you back and talk
(21:24):
more media and social mediaadvertising for industrials. How
are you
Dan Fitzpatrick (21:29):
Doing great, how about yourself?
Joey Strawn (21:31):
Now, I mean, you know, Nelson is just out here,
talking about trends and talkingabout things that are going to
benefit industrial marketers andpeople live in, in this space.
And we're thankful to be doingit this time of year. So again,
thank you for joining us, andwe're gonna we're gonna restrict
ourselves this conversation.
It's not like advertising ingeneral, I know you're the media
(21:54):
expert, but we're going to focuson social media advertising this
time, Dan, because, you know, wewe hear a lot and we see a lot
of social media activity. And wehear about, you know, industrial
companies, manufacturers,specifically thinking about
getting into social mediaadvertising, like, how do you
feel that conversation needs toget started for companies? Like
(22:17):
where do they need to start whenthinking about getting into it
and setting aside budget for it?
Dan Fitzpatrick (22:25):
Yeah, well, great question. Really, what it
comes down to is, when you'rewhen you're doing that pre
planning, you have to askyourself, Well, where is my
audience? That then oftentimes,the answer is are going to be on
social media? Does that meanthey're in by now mode? On
social? Potentially? Likely,also? Likely not. But they're
(22:48):
still there, and they'represent. And there's opportunity
to really start to either engagewith them, or, you know,
generate some impressions andawareness with that community?
Joey Strawn (23:00):
And that's what it's funny that you say that Dan
Nelson, now we're talking at thebeginning of this is that there
always needs to be some versionof a go versus no go decision.
And usually involved in that isthe question of is my audience
or who I'm trying to talk to,even in this ecosystem? Now,
like you said, most of the timenowadays is yes, but you still
(23:22):
need to be asking it, you know?
Dan Fitzpatrick (23:24):
Absolutely.
And, you know, during the preplanning phase, we'll be doing
audience research within each ofthe platforms, and making sure
that the audiences within thoseplatforms match up with the
audiences we want to reach. Andsometimes they're not in both
platforms from a targetingstandpoint, or in a multitude
of, or I should say, sometimesthey're not always, in all of
(23:47):
the platforms, sometimes they'rein maybe just one or two. But
really, what it comes down tois, you know, during your
research, if they're there, it'sa great opportunity to get in
front of
Nels Jensen (23:59):
them. Yeah, Dan, are you talking about just
targeting? Are you talking aboutcustom audiences? And I know,
we're going to talk a lot moreabout custom audiences, but, you
know, the people are so, youknow, social media is so, um,
the present? You know, the, theanswer is usually, yes, people
(24:19):
are on social, it's just amatter of, you know, when and
where.
Dan Fitzpatrick (24:25):
Totally. So, you know, when you're asking
about, okay, how do wedifferentiate between, you know,
the built in baked in targeting,so we understand our persona,
versus a custom audience where,hey, let's say we have an ABM
approach. Let's say we have, youknow, an approach with a
specific job title, or peoplewho have an affinity towards who
(24:48):
have an affinity towards, let'ssay, those are those are
definitely two distinctaudiences, but they they can run
in parallel. And the great thingabout social and the way we use
from a b2b standpoint, is thatwe're always learning from it
because we have access to justvery rich amounts of analytics.
So I talked about, yeah, so Sosomething I've talked about kind
(25:13):
of frequently, and I know, itmight annoy some people at some
point is I like to talk aboutthe customer of tomorrow. Right?
So we know who the customer istoday. But what can we do from a
testing and learning standpoint,to figure out who the customer
might be tomorrow? What marketsmight be available tomorrow? And
social is a really strong placeto start running those
(25:36):
experiments.
Joey Strawn (25:37):
I agree.
Nels Jensen (25:41):
Yeah, what I was gonna say, Joe's gonna jump back
to the question about basicquestions to begin with. So Dan,
you're also talking about theneed to really set goals
because, you know, awareness,you want to be maybe I'm not in
buying mode now, in theindustrial sector, but I will
(26:02):
be, you know, in a few monthsfrom now. So, the beauty of
social, of course, you canalways do the awareness. As I
like to say, you know, you neverwant to be out of sight out of
mind, it's one thing to say, wejust want the low hanging fruit,
we just want the leads of peoplewho are about to buy, you know,
no, that doesn't work that way,you know, you need to be in
(26:23):
front of people, before theydecide to buy, so help us, you
know, goals, goal setting,obviously, anything you're doing
when with, with the, you know, acampaign with the spend, you're
aligning with goals. So how doyou help set goals around paid
social?
Dan Fitzpatrick (26:40):
Yeah, well, well, that's exactly it in the
sense that when we're doing asocial strategy, we're trying to
reach people at different pointsin the funnel with different
content, creative messaging, andmediums. So, you know, from if
we know that, you know, theirpre buying research phase might
(27:02):
take six months, and it mightstart with, you know, queries
around, let's say, governmentregulations, that's really good
awareness based content, wherewe can start bringing people
into the top of the funnel, sothat as they do that research,
you know, we can help, we canhelp our clients kind of guide
them to when they become a morequalified, middle of the funnel
candidate. But we're catchingthem really early in this
(27:24):
instance. But let's saysomebody's more in the middle of
the funnel. And for them, it's,instead of research about
regulatory changes to regulatorypractices that your client can
really address. It's more about,you know, low volume
fabrication, toolingopportunities. So, you know, we
(27:47):
might have specific content thatis, you know, gated and more
speaks more to that answer inthe moment. And that could be
considered more the low hangingfruit, you know, somebody's more
towards the middle or lower partof the funnel. Really, the point
here is that on social, we'reable to target so many different
kinds of people within and wherethey fall in the funnel is will
(28:12):
be different.
Joey Strawn (28:13):
Well, and, Dan, I'm, I was happy to hear you say
that, because one of the thingsI wanted to ask you about today,
and I know, you know, somelisteners will be thinking about
is, you know, what do I need toput in the ads, and you kind of
touched on that, right? There'sit's not just one answer to
like, oh, well, we have to havesome grand 20% off promotion, or
we have to be launching a newiPhone to be worthy of having an
(28:36):
ad, like you mentioned rightthere just going through a
couple examples of some contentpieces that would be valuable,
or possibly, like a video thatsomeone may already have, or you
know, a promotion, but like,what should be in the ads like
it, it sounds like it kind ofwhatever is going to benefit
them most at that stage in thefunnel, honestly.
Dan Fitzpatrick (28:58):
That's exactly it. Yeah. And you know, when we
launch a campaign, ideally, we'dbe testing different types of
creative as to how to, as to howto speak with with these people.
And you know, pretty early on,we'll be able to get some good
learnings about that. And thenwe kind of throttle what what's
working there versus what isn't.
Joey Strawn (29:19):
Now, so you and I talked about that earlier about
the agility of social being oneof its biggest values. I mean,
Dan, we were using the exampleof saying like, Well, if 25
years ago, think of the value ofsomeone who's placing a
billboard, to say, well, by theby early, like Rush Hour and
late afternoon rush hour, welearned that most people don't
(29:41):
like your ad. So we were able tochange it at lunchtime for the
five o'clock rush or like, howbeneficial would that have been,
you know, 2030 years ago? But wehave that ability. Now. Just you
said there's so much you canlearn within, within like
immediately after launch.
Dan Fitzpatrick (30:00):
That's exactly it. And you know, when we talk
about sort of the billboard,television even approach, you
know, that's, that's kind ofmore shotgun versus with. With
social we can get a little moretargeted we can we can use a
right yeah, so to speak.
Joey Strawn (30:16):
And that's let's talk about that, like, let's
talk about how targeted you canget you know, Nelson, I touched
a little bit on that being apower of social is that we give
social platforms so muchinformation about ourselves that
it makes it easier for peoplelike you to get us the right
message. So like, how importantis customization, whether it be
(30:38):
in system tools or pulling likea third party ABM list like you
mentioned?
Dan Fitzpatrick (30:44):
Yeah, so especially with those lists,
it's just so important, becausea good example, with these
lists. And what we like to dois, so we have an ABM list.
That's okay, companies, andlet's say it's five different
job titles, because, again, youknow, a lot of our b2b clients,
they won, there isn't just onedecision makers sort of a team
(31:05):
coming together to make thatdecision. I want to really Yeah,
yeah, committee. So we want toreach sort of a diversity of
folks within there. But we havean ABM list. And you know, we're
paying for that list too. So itis, you know, it's valuable in
that regard. But it's notinclusive of everybody that
could be part of thesecommittees elsewhere. So what we
(31:27):
would do is we'd load this listin, we'd get a pretty good hit
rate. But then we build a lookalike audience off of this as
well. And we'd start testing thesame messaging to the look alike
audience. And then within thatlook alike audience, let's say
that's, that audience isengaging more with our content.
So we can actually start tobreak out and take an examine,
(31:49):
well, what's different betweenthe lookalike audience and our
original audience, we know thatthey have like a 90% affinity.
But honey does the look alikeaudience like Sprite more.
Whereas the original audiencelikes coke. That's a really
valuable learning, because nowwe can say to our ourselves and
our clients, look, we'restarting to see a shift. And
(32:10):
we're starting to see this kindof new market opportunity open
up here, this audience thathappens to like Sprite, actually
really likes your product, too.
Whereas it's not just theaudience that likes Coca Cola.
Joey Strawn (32:23):
Wow, the Yeah, that's I mean, that's, that's
always what we talk about when Ithink we talk about the power of
social media is being able toseek not not only see those
trends, but see them quickly,and then be able to react to
them. You know, it's a, it'sit's a very agile market, as I
think we said that a little bitago, but what you just described
(32:44):
right there, it's reallyexciting to be able to say like,
Okay, we know, these people areimportant to us. And because of
technology, we can take thesepeople, we can build another
list that acts the same way asthese people that we know are
valuable to us to get in frontof new eyeballs. And then based
off learnings from that new setof eyeballs, we're gonna
(33:04):
customize the original audienceto make it even stronger, is
just in it's that cycle ofcontinued learning, you know,
that Kaizen mentality that weall have in the manufacturing
space, of always looking forthose minut adjustments to make
the program work better. And itsounds like that's how you and
your team work. When you'resetting up these media plans.
(33:24):
And especially going intosocial, you have to I would
imagine, you have to pretty bebe pretty on the ball. When it
comes to social advertising,considering people, you know,
people are mad at us Superbowlcommercials, they just yell
obscenities at their screen.
People are mad at your ad, thenthey can type obscenities on
your ad for other people to see.
So it's a little bit of adifferent world.
Dan Fitzpatrick (33:48):
For sure, for sure. You got to keep your eye
gotta keep your eye on things.
Otherwise, you know, stuff canget a little messy. kind of
quick, kind of quick if youdon't, but no,
Nels Jensen (33:59):
But isn't. Isn't that that agility is you can
kind of play offense and defenseat the same time, you can stop
doing things as well as you candouble down on the things that
are working. And one of thethings we were talking about to
you in terms of the planning, sowhat how about integrating your
paid social with your othermessaging? What are what are
(34:21):
what should manufacturingmarketers think about in terms
of the alignment with othermessaging?
Dan Fitzpatrick (34:27):
Yeah, so great question. And really it comes
down to well, what is theaudience's expectations on each
platform? Right? So like anaudience expectation on LinkedIn
might be different than anaudience expectation on
Instagram, as to how they wantto consume a specific type of
content, but even brought in abroadening and out beyond social
(34:51):
you know, what is your audienceexpectation in like a trade
magazine, you know, in printpublication even, it's going to
be way different than than justkind of doing their day to day,
sort of existence within social.
So, you know, you really have tobe cognizant of the fact that
the audience will haveexpectations as to what kind of
(35:12):
messaging and content that theyreact to, based on Channel.
Right.
Joey Strawn (35:21):
And that makes sense. I mean, you know,
crafting the message for theaudience has always been
something that we talked about,but understanding that even
within a universe, crafting themessage for each channel, can
really make a difference. Imean, we talked earlier in the
segment that YouTube is one ofthe fastest growing search
engines on the planet. So ifyou're being you know, using a
(35:42):
method of getting ads into thatsocial sphere, knowing what ads
and which makers in whichtitles, the videos that your,
that your ads are showing up oncan also be very important, just
because of the universe, this,you'll be then existing. And so,
you know, I, as we wrap up here,I know that, you know, people
(36:05):
have questions and fears andconcerns. And, and we always say
there's no one size fits allsolution for anything in
industrial manufacturing. Butwhen it comes to social media
advertising, is there anyscenario in which a company just
shouldn't use it at all?
Dan Fitzpatrick (36:23):
Yeah, and I think we actually just kind of
addressed that in a roundaboutway, which is the expectations.
So one, if your audience isn'tthere, and if your audience not
only is not there, but theirexpectations don't align with
you know, what you can providethem in that moment, then it
(36:44):
doesn't, sometimes it justdoesn't, you know, it doesn't
have to, it doesn't always makesense to move forward with that.
So, you know, you do have tokind of pick your spots for
sure. But that's far between,because at the end of the day,
once we have these customaudience lists, it doesn't cost
anything to upload them. And totest whether or not what kind of
(37:05):
match rate we get. And if we'regetting a strong match rate?
Well, we know that that audienceexists on social. So you know,
they're there. Can we meet themwith the appropriate content and
the right expectation? And ifthe answer is yes, to that,
proceed? If the answer is no,which sometimes it is, you know,
(37:26):
maybe find different mediums,
Joey Strawn (37:28):
Right. And that's actually really, really good
advice. I one of the hack thatwe had used in the past, or that
I will give the audience here.
And Dad, you can slap my hand ifthis is no longer correct. But
we used to even approach it inLinkedIn advertising, because
you can put in feed ads forclick, cost per click, so you
only get charged when peopleclick on it, but they still show
(37:49):
up. So we used to call thosejust like billboard ads, like
we'll put them in the feed,people will see them when they
scroll drive by, but unless theytap on them, you're not getting
charged for anything. It's likeyou're still getting those
eyeballs, but you're nottechnically paying for them, but
their placements there to getthose clicks. As like, you know,
there's they're a little wayslike that, that you can take
advantage and actually get infront of the people. If
(38:12):
awareness. Going back to thething we said at the beginning,
if awareness is one of thosegoals, then there are ways to
use social media where it's nota burden. And it doesn't have to
be, you know, detrimental toyour to your bottom line either.
Now, Dan, we always like to endwith giving people you know, on
the shop floor, like real lifeadvice, I think we've talked a
(38:34):
lot about real scenario so farwith you. But if someone's just
not sure how to get benefit fromsocial ads, or how to start
using that money, what what's apiece of advice that you would
give them?
Dan Fitzpatrick (38:51):
I would probably ask them, you know,
what was the? What I would do isI'd probably start by asking
them, Hey, do you have Instagramyourself? Do you have like, Have
you been on YouTube? When wasthe last time you were there?
And you know, let's just pretendthe answer was I was watching a
video this morning. Okay. Do youremember any of the ads?
(39:14):
Actually? Yeah, I do. It was anad for, you know, a big pen or
something. That's okay. Why doyou think you saw that? I don't
know. It just seemed, you know,whatever the answer may be. The
point is that thatadvertisement, even if it was a
relevant was something that wasseen and resonated in some
(39:36):
capacity. So if you can get pastthe barrier of I don't believe
in this because it's not the waywe've done business in the past.
If you can get past that barrierwith folks, by having them
understand, hey, you actuallysee these all the time and they
do have a lasting impact on you.
Maybe the targeting maybe youweren't the right audience.
Well, that's why we're in thisconversation because we'll help
(39:57):
you find the right audience. Andwe'll dial it in. And once that
occurs, then we'll you know,we'll start to see that
meaningful lift. You know, it'sjust kind of allowing people to
see what's, you know, what'sbeen what's worked on them.
While I might not have evenrealized
Joey Strawn (40:19):
I like that quite a bit because we as industrial
marketers tend to go intothinking about this, trying to
encapsulate the whole and tryingto be like, well, industrial
marketers as a whole writ largedon't like XY and Z. But the
reality is, is all of us workingin these fields are industrials
are industrial marketers. AndDan, to your point, the best
(40:41):
advice probably is personalizeit a little bit more than they
think, than they think theyshould like. As an industrial,
what social networks are you on?
Why are you there? What have youseen that resonated that you
remembered? And why? And if youcan answer those questions for
you, then you can think aboutways to apply those same answers
(41:01):
to your advertising and and useyour advertising to answer those
questions for other people. Ilike bingo. That's a really good
way to think about that.
Nels Jensen (41:13):
Yeah, you're but you're basically talking about
the recipe for authenticity. Youknow, you Joey just reworded you
know, what Dan was talking aboutappropriate content and, you
know, appropriate flip platformwith appropriate expectations.
You know, that's why so many,you know, visuals work on
Instagram, you know, tick tock,whatever. The manufacturers
(41:37):
ultimately are making things,they're creating things. And,
you know, those are greatplatforms for people who are
creative bakers, you know,because it worked on you because
it was authentic, it wasauthentic for your place and
your time, right, the channelyou were on, and your
expectations. So yeah, it's a, Iguess what I'm hearing, Dan, is
(41:59):
the importance of authenticity.
Dan Fitzpatrick (42:04):
Absolutely. I mean, you know, it's, I think
that's a good lesson for anypart of someone's life and
advertising journey.
Joey Strawn (42:14):
Especially with social media like that is the
core of why it exists. in Reno Iwe used to say, if you're not
willing to be social didn'tDon't be on social media. And so
that is the core of and, Dan, toyour point earlier. And I'll
wrap this up in a nice littlebow here is it all comes back to
that context, is the contextthat needs to be presented,
because the channel isinherently social is one of
(42:38):
authenticity, and that message,whatever that is, for your
brand, for your company, foryour promotion, and what you're
putting out there, it needs tofeel that way and resonate that
way within the advertising. AndI think I like that. And Dan, I
think that is something to bethankful for, at this time of
year. So thank you for beinghere and for and for bestowing
(43:03):
your wisdom upon us and lettingus barrage you with questions,
then we're gonna have you backon the show, as always, but
thanks for coming on today.
Dan Fitzpatrick (43:10):
Yeah, totally.
You know, this is the secondtime the first time we talked
about workforce recruitment. Andthat's still a big issue.
Joey Strawn (43:20):
So if you haven't heard that episode, go back in
our archives and listen to it,because trust us, it's still
very relevant.
Dan Fitzpatrick (43:28):
Yeah, yeah.
Absolutely.
Joey Strawn (43:30):
Thank you very much, and listeners as always
from nows and myself, thank youso much for listening. This is a
community effort and we asindustrial marketers are trying
to get better together. If youhave thoughts of how you've seen
social media advertising be usedin a successful way. Email us
those stories. You can email usyour questions to those stories
(43:51):
or any comments, you have anemail at podcast at industrial
marketer.com If you aren'talready following us on social
media, please do industrialmarketer you could find us
anywhere social medias are sold.
And then also go to our website,industrial marketer.com and
subscribe. There's a lot ofvery, very sophisticated and
professional and well writtenblogs on a lot of topics that we
(44:13):
as industrial marketers careabout. So reach out, connect.
Let's come together this time ofyear. And until next time, thank
you for listening, and we willtalk to you on the flipside.
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