December 7, 2021 • 33 mins
Developing an Ideal Client Profile not only helps you align your sales and marketing strategies and tactics, it also can help reduce the risks and unintended consequences that come with bringing on new clients. The Industrial Marketer podcast helps you get started.
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Episode Transcript
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Joey Strawn (00:00):
Welcome back everybody to another episode of
the industrial Marketer Podcastyour place for the tips, tech
trends and tactics forindustrial who care about
driving leads to theircompanies. I'm one of your hosts
as always Joey strong industrialmarketer advocate and all around
neat fella. I am joined asalways by my partner in crime,
(00:22):
my cohort, Nels on the shelfJensen, how are you? I'm a man.
I'm doing really well.
Nels Jensen (00:28):
Thank you, Joey, thanks for that nice
introduction.
Joey Strawn (00:30):
You're, you're very welcome. You know, it's always
it's nice that when we can getto this time of year, the
holiday season, pulled down ourNels on the shelf, put them on
content, advice and strategytips. It's just wonderful. Me
and my kids love it. We hide theNels on the shelf around every
single day.
Nels Jensen (00:47):
You never know, right? You never know when
you'll get some incredibleinsight from Nels on the shelf.
Joey Strawn (00:51):
Exactly. We come down every morning. And then
it's like, hey, write a casestudy. We're like, yay. Oh, man.
But today, we're not talkingabout case studies. Now today,
because we're still in ourquarter of sales focus is the
end of the year, people aresetting their budgets, people
are getting their proposals anditems in line for next year,
(01:12):
people are looking for those newsales that are going to really
fill in their bottom line intheir pipeline for 2022. And so
this quarter, we're dedicated toall sales topics that are
important to beat a BS andindustrials dealing with these
markets, the pandemic has setcrazy supply chain problems,
companies are moving in allsorts of new ways and looking at
(01:35):
new partners. And whetherthey're going in the
sustainability route or lookingfor cheaper partners and supply
chain manufacturing paths.
Everybody is looking right nowto find their best and most
ideal partners. And that's allwhat this episode is about
NetSuite you and I are reallyhyper focusing in on the ICP, or
the ideal customer profile. Nowin the wider sales world. That's
(02:01):
a very general term. But now youand I were focusing on the
industrial b2b markets. Andthat's where you and I are going
to live today. How excited areyou to talk about that?
Well, that's where that's wherewe live every day, Joey. And
it's, it's a, it's a narrowworld in the sense of some of
(02:21):
the some of the verticals, it'sa, you know, elongated world in
terms of buying cycles. Andthat's what makes this
challenging, right? How do youmight not have a, you might not
have a large pool of clients.
But if you can get aligned withthe right ones, then you're
golden.
That is, and now that is such agreat summary of kind of why
(02:43):
it's so important. So a coupleof things, we do have a special
guest today now. So you and Ihave have gone into the world
and pulled in a businessdevelopment expert, someone who
deals with this every day in theindustrial sectors, and is
talking to companies about theirideal client profiles. And he
obviously has one for himselfthat he's trying to identify. So
(03:05):
Jim, the jam man is coming inlater. And he is going to tell
us all about real worldpractical applications, and how
he helps other people getnumerical trackable ways to talk
to the right people. But beforewe even do that, let's set the
stage a little bit about whatokay, what the heck is an ICP?
(03:28):
What are we talking about here?
And like, how is it different?
Or is it the same thing as atarget persona? How do b2b Is
use them? And why and when mightthey use them? And then we're
gonna let Jim tell us somespecifics. So now, I want to
start by giving the definitionof an ICP. I know you and I talk
about acronyms, we loveacronyms, but the ideal customer
(03:49):
profile. So when we talk aboutthe ideal customer profile, what
we are talking about ahypothetical company, or
organization that you can mapout on paper that would get the
most benefit from working withyour organization. So yes, step
that best just a little bit. Butyeah, no. So what do you take
from that? What do you hear? Soto me a definition.
Nels Jensen (04:10):
To me, there's a couple of simple ways to look at
this as well, definition spoton, but it's the intersection,
right of your capabilities andsomebody else's needs, right?
Got to be a good match fromthere. And it's also somebody
who will work with you to addvalue and work with you to
reduce friction. You know, it'sthose those are two key
(04:35):
components in any good businessto business relationship, right?
It's not just making a widget.
It's not just providing softwaresupport, you know, it's about
adding value. It's about, youknow, how do you how can you
work with this person? And thatcan be for in terms of all sorts
of things that we're going totalk about, but we can talk
about the pain points, we cantalk about budgets, you There's
(04:58):
there's a bunch of checkboxesalmost that go into the ideal
client profile. And obviously,one of them is the ability to
work together to add value foreach other.
Joey Strawn (05:13):
I couldn't agree more. And I love how you put
that as the is the intersection.
And finding value is findingthat benefit benefit is the
intersection of all the data andall the things we know and all
the things we do to really puttogether this profile of who is
going to work best with us. Andwhat we mean by that it's not
who's gonna make the most money,it's not the biggest name in
(05:34):
your market, there's a lot ofways that when you hear that
term was like a hypotheticalcompany that would like be the
greatest that we could workwith, you have to take a very
serious approach to this,because it's not going to be
just the biggest names in theindustry, it's not going to be
the biggest brands in the world,a lot of in a lot of cases,
(05:55):
especially with the b2b andindustrial markets, bigger is
not always better, the moregeneral and the more inclusive,
that your ideal customer profileis, the more watered down so it
can fit in more people and morecompanies and more brands, the
less effective eventually it'sgoing to be one of the things
(06:17):
that really, really, I thinkwe're going to pinpoint this
with Jim later is that whenyou're thinking of an ICP, or an
AI, deal, or profile, you needto think of the companies that
are realistic to work with size,budget, timing, all of that. And
we'll talk about thoseparameters in section two. But
(06:37):
they also need to be a realisticpartner for you. So if they
don't have the accountingfunctions, or if they don't have
the turnaround times, or vendorrelationships that you prefer,
there are some companies I knowthat are trying to get net zero
on sustainability. So they'reworking with only suppliers who
match their sustainabilitygoals. So whatever your
(06:59):
stipulations may be, as findingthat ideal partner is more than
just company is more than justExxon who has $8 billion, and we
want money. So that's where Ireally want to get more in with
Jim in the weeds on this. Butthe idea behind an ideal
customer profile isn't so muchthat it's just like a target
persona. We've talked abouttarget personas before. But
(07:20):
those are the person you'retalking to, you can have
multiple target personas withinin the ideal customer customer
profiles. So you know, thecompany that you need to go
after, and that's your ICP, butwithin any ICP, there may be a
target persona of 123 or fourstakeholders that will have to
(07:40):
be convinced along the way.
Nels Jensen (07:44):
Certainly, right.
Especially in industrial whereyou're talking about
engineering, you're talkingabout, you know, operations,
you're talking about purchasing,you know, those three very
divergent areas of a company.
And so obviously, you're goingto have that. So you know, one
thing that I have not dealt alot with ideal client profiles,
but I always hear it associatedwith Lifetime Customer Value,
(08:07):
you know, is that? Well, I'msure we'll talk more with Jim
about that. But that's also, youknow, I'm not sure that that
ideal customer could be a shortterm customer too, right?
Obviously, it's great. You canhave organic growth, you can
work together, you could everretainer, oh, you know, but um,
yeah. So, you know, just helpedme a little bit with framing,
you know, how you view customersfrom a short term long term
(08:30):
proposition here?
Joey Strawn (08:32):
That's, that's a fantastic question. I do want
Jim to dive into that. But frommy from my standpoint, and from
my experience, you can have anideal client profile or ideal
customer profile that targetsproject accounts, it depends on
the company. And I know a lot oftimes in marketing as well, it
depends. This right does.
Because if you have a revenuestream, that's totally baked in
(08:53):
on turnaround project accounts,like you have a machine that has
downtime, and you're justpumping out projects, and that's
a revenue stream that isvaluable to your business,
there's no reality in where Iwould tell you not to have an
ideal customer profile aroundthose types of projects. But for
those, the ideal client profileparameters might need to be this
(09:15):
time, this turnaround time. Ithas to use this machine,
obviously the one that has thedowntime and availability and
that machine only does a coupleof functions. So if you're using
you know, a water, if you'relike water jetting or water
cutting, you're not going to beable to then turn around and
fabricate a widget from that. Socapabilities of the output is
(09:37):
very, very, is very, veryhelpful. So project accounts and
project revenue streams candefinitely have some, most of
the time though. 80% or more.
When we're talking ICP, we'rethinking long term customers,
right? So I guess I practicerevenue over over a long period.
(10:00):
of time.
Nels Jensen (10:00):
Sure. So So I guess my Let me try asking a question
in a slightly different way,because an ideal customer might
have four different metrics thatyou sort of view this from. But
let's say that somebody comesalong and they're in your sweet
spot for men were awesome atdoing X. And they want us to do
(10:21):
X, and they have the budget, andthey have, but they don't have a
third or a fourth element, butthey still could be a match.
Right? So I, you know, are wetalking ideal ideal? Are we
talking more like a gradientscale where you just want to
move more toward the idealwhenever possible?
Joey Strawn (10:41):
Man, you ask some tough, great questions. Now,
it's more the second, I wouldsay because obviously, and Jim
will tell you this, becauseJim's on the floor, he's on the
ground floor doing this. And heknows that, while you always
have a framework, there aregoing to be situations that call
for an audible or an aggressionor,
Nels Jensen (11:00):
We should hit we should hit we should hit Jim up
with this, because this is theworld he lives in.
Joey Strawn (11:05):
Yeah, because that's, that's probably what
you're looking for it and Idon't want to put words in his
mouth. And I'm going to, if hesays at 20, I'm going to just
burst out laughing, but probablyat 20 is you want to have
confidence enough, and about 80or 80% of them, but you know
that 20% of them are just goingto be all over the place, you
may have these parameters andthese elements, but they don't
(11:27):
have the budget, but that'sokay. Because you can, it can be
a door into a larger project, orsomeone that they're a vendor
with that you need acollaboration with. So yeah,
always gonna be those sidesteps,I'd say 20 to 30% of the time.
But for most of it the core,you're trying to find something
that will meticulously turnaround consistent quality. And
(11:50):
that's it sort of the same ideais, you know, nails when you and
I are talking in the marketingsense of like a marketing
qualified lead or a salesqualified lead, it's a little
bit of that is where we havescores, we have very specific
parameters in ideal world. Butman, if someone is just a
perfect fit, and they are nottaking the activities that get
(12:10):
them the score they need, and wenoticed them, we still have to
pursue that sale, that's stillan opportunity. So yes, we can
talk about we can talk with Jimabout where you pivot, and how
often you know, that becomesvaluable. But at some point, you
have to be able to draw the lineand say, You know what? That
doesn't fit? Like? That's aticket. That's a deal. Sure,
(12:32):
yeah. To quote 30 rock. Likecustomer budgets.
Nels Jensen (12:39):
We all live that world
Joey Strawn (12:40):
Exactly. Those are things that everyone is always
thinking about when they'reputting these ideal client and
customer profiles together. Youknow, I think, I think we should
probably mosey on down to theshop floor and see what Jim has
to say, because I keep almostputting words in Jim's mouth.
And I think he's just going tobe able to tell us exactly how
(13:02):
he's helped customers andclients talk about this and
approach this and think aboutthis. And so if we really want
to give value to the industrialmarketers listening to this
episode, we got to get out ofthe shop floor and have Jim,
start telling them what's what.
Let's do it. All right, now,let's head on down and meet some
gym the gym man. Oh, now, wemade it to the shop floor.
(13:27):
Welcome. Welcome to the shopfloor with me. Are you ready to
dive in and actually talk aboutICPs? And how to put them to use
with someone who does it forreal?
Nels Jensen (13:38):
Yeah, this is gonna be a good segment.
Joey Strawn (13:39):
Let's go. Okay. I am so excited that we teased
this earlier on in the episode,but we have a business
development professional. Thisis a guy who works in the
industrial spaces. He livesaround b2b. He's he's talking to
industrial companies everysingle day. We are so happy to
have him on the industrialMarketer Podcast. Please,
(14:01):
everybody. Welcome, Jim. The Jamman is back. How are you, Jim?
Jim Eisenbeck (14:06):
Hey, Joey. I'm doing great. Thanks for having
me.
Joey Strawn (14:09):
Oh, it is such a pleasure to have you here. Jim.
Just to give you a little bit ofa context and catch up, we spent
the entire first half of thisepisode talking about what an
ICP is an industrial client orcustomer profile. And you know,
we were talking conceptually onhow you put them together. And
when, you know, some times youmight want to think about using
(14:29):
them. But we really got to apoint where we were thinking,
you know, what's really going toput this into context for our
listeners, for the people thatare dealing with this on a day
to day basis is for us toactually talk to somebody who
deals with this on a day to daybasis. And when Nelson I put our
heads together, we couldn'tthink of anybody more qualified
to talk about ICPs and how toactually use them for a for
(14:53):
benefit. And to ID ID eight onwhat is going to make and drive
success for a brand then you So,Jim, thank you so much for being
our expert on ICPs today,
Jim Eisenbeck (15:05):
That's awesome.
Looking forward to talking aboutit, Stevan?
Joey Strawn (15:09):
Oh, right. So okay, so here's the first question
that I have for you. And we'regonna start off General, I
defined sort of my definitionof, you know, the ICP, a
hypothetical company that wouldbenefit from, you know, working
with a company or a brand. But Iwant you to dive in a little bit
deeper. And tell me a little bitabout what how you define an ICP
(15:30):
and who needs them?
Jim Eisenbeck (15:33):
Gotcha. Well, an ideal client is a representative
of that kind of company,organization that you would most
like to do business with. It's,you know, from an organizational
standpoint, it's those companiesthat you can best serve those
companies who can derive valueand actually benefit from what
your organization provides. SoI, you know, where I find it
(15:56):
helpful in my day to day is,it's, you know, it's, it's as
important to know whichpotential customers are actually
good prospects, as well asreally understanding those that
aren't and why they aren't. Soyou know, where to focus your
efforts.
Joey Strawn (16:09):
Okay, so So when, when you're thinking about it
with every company out thereneed an ICP? Like, is that
something that's going tobenefit everybody? Or who are
the types of people andcompanies that should be
thinking about? I'm using themand really diving in on them?
Jim Eisenbeck (16:25):
I would say anyone who relies on a customer
to keep their business rely,
Joey Strawn (16:31):
Okay. Okay, your client? Okay, well, that I mean,
that that makes that make sense.
I mean, what what do you think?
Like, I mean, obviously,companies can't go after every
person out in in the world. Sowhat are some of the factors are
what are some of the resourcesand some of the thought
processes, when people arethinking of setting an ICP up or
(16:55):
getting their mind around? Wherethey need to start when they're
looking at their currentportfolio or their client lists?
Where would you tell people thatare like, where should they
start? What should they focuson?
Jim Eisenbeck (17:06):
Well, again, you know, ideal is the operative
word and an ideal client, it'snot always going to be perfect.
One of the ways that's common tostart is by just understanding
and looking at the customersthat you already have, you know,
and identifying some of thosecommon traits, what makes them a
good client for you? And really,what is the selection criteria
(17:27):
that matters most for yourorganization, as you consider
other new business partners tojoin with. And so ideally, at
the end of the day, it's aboutcreating the mix that works for
you and your organization.
Joey Strawn (17:40):
Okay, so it is going to it is going to differ,
it's not just a set, you knowthat the ideal client profile
isn't a set, like five bulletpoints that then every company
on the face of the planet uses.
So there is going to be a littlebit of that mix. I mean, how do
how do they think through someof those options? I mean,
obviously, sighs reve...I know,you talk revenue all day long,
(18:01):
with with companies, but I mean,like, what are some of the
things that they should beconsidering or thinking of or
prioritizing?
Jim Eisenbeck (18:09):
Well, first and foremost, I always advocate for
keeping it simple. And some ofthe common categories that you
may consider prospectivebusiness partners, like you
said, they might be based onsize and revenue as one of the
criteria. It might even be thetype of organization or the
market focus that they have, itmight be the type or the volume
(18:31):
of work that you can expect fromthem, depending on what your
organization does. If you'remaking chips and parts might be
volumes that you're looking forin production runs. It might be
also something like the revenuetarget, even the billing terms,
if they're favorable to you,Will the work be profitable?
(18:52):
There, there are several itemsthat those are just a few.
Joey Strawn (18:55):
Right? Well, I mean, wow, that's, that's a
that's an awesome list. One ofthe things we talked about it,
it kind of goes in with revenueand profit and generation is we
talked earlier in the episodeabout like, lifetime value, and
you know, factoring in like theactual companies that, that
provide value to the, to youruniverse, into your portfolio
into your business preferences,and speciality and things like
(19:18):
that. So I'm, I'm happy to hearyou say that it's like, you
know, they value the solution.
They work alongside, you know,the companies that you would
work with, and obviously, marketfocus, you know, you don't want
to be targeting people that areoutside your areas of expertise.
So, yeah, I can I could totallysee those being a major thing.
Nels Jensen (19:38):
I got a question here. Is, is this an always on
kind of mindset? Or is this morein play for a growth company or
a company that's lost clientsand is looking to replace work
or when markets or markets aretight what you know, are there
certain times when ICP is moreapplicable than others?
Jim Eisenbeck (20:01):
I would look at this as an always on, because it
is where you place your efforts,organizations have finite
resources, there's only so muchyou can do in a day. And where
an ICP really can come into playis it can be a framework for
scrutinizing the businessopportunities that you have in
front of you can help you keepyour focus and gain more of
(20:21):
those customers who actually area good fit for you. And without
that focus, you know,organizations can find that they
may be holding on to customersthat really aren't a fit our
drain taking resources away frommore profitable work, and
actually presenting preventingthe growth. So, you know, it can
negatively impact revenue, itcan revenue, you know,
negatively impact businessstrategy, operations, team
(20:43):
morale, and it can have somesome accumulative effects.
Joey Strawn (20:48):
Yeah, well, and that's an interesting point that
you made there at the end, Jim,about, you know, if you're
holding on to a customer thatmay actually not be providing
value to you, if it doesn'tmeet, you know, if you put this
together correctly, then if aclient doesn't meet that
profile, then there are somequestions to ask. And that's the
tough part about like, thisspecific conversation is, you
(21:09):
know, we won't beat around thebush, at some point in time, you
may have to make the decision tofire a client or not go after a
customer. And that sounds weirdwhen you're talking business
when you're talking, you know,revenue growth to say, Oh, we're
gonna say no, to that business.
But if you're following an ICPmodel, hope, you know,
hopefully, it gives you thefreedom to say no more often. I
mean, Jim, have you found thattalking with people in the real
(21:33):
world are people who are trying,you know, companies putting
these together that are that arestruggling with the idea of
like, well, how do we say no topeople who aren't a fit?
Jim Eisenbeck (21:44):
I've definitely heard it in action, from clients
who use this framework to makedecisions around those types of
prospects that they're wantingto do business with, knowing
that they might be resourceconstrained. And the reality is
you never know everything rightcustomer until you're actually
doing business with them, right.
So there's always going to bethings that you'll learn. But
again, if you use the ICP, as aguideline, it's just a way to
(22:06):
scrutinize the opportunities.
Nels Jensen (22:10):
That's, I love that. What so ideal is wonderful
in theory, in practice, it's atarget, right? How do you rank
criteria? Or what? How do you?
How do you decide what you cancompromise on and what you can't
compromise on, when honing in onideal or nearly ideal customers?
Jim Eisenbeck (22:33):
That's a great question. So in our world of
industrial marketing, we have adefined set of criteria for
those ideal customers that wewould like to work with. We look
at revenue, we look at thingslike leadership involvement, we
look for accountable resources,we find that those make the best
partners for us when we havesomeone that we can work with
(22:55):
hand in hand, who has a keypoint of contact. But there are
times when on paper, andopportunity might not look
perfect. But it could be aninitial engagement from a
notable brand, that looks greaton the roster, there can be any
number of decisions that mightopen the door to other
opportunities down the road, andthings that we might consider
(23:16):
those x factors, if you will,that helped us really determine
is this an opportunity worthpursuing and something that we
want to go after?
Joey Strawn (23:26):
So there's always a little bit of I mean, we live in
the world of marketing. Sothere's always a little bit of
it depends in there. Jim, as Ihear, that makes me feel better.
Because we always love our itdepends answer in the world of
marketing. So it sounds likethere's a little bit of bake
that bake of that baked into theDNA here. Now, Jim, you talked
about putting this intopractice. And actually, you
(23:48):
know, in a real world context,ideal is a key word. You had
mentioned that earlier. So whenit comes to the real world, and
that's sort of what this on theshop floor segment is all about,
is, you know, for peoplelistening to this, what are some
real world examples? How haveyou seen this, either benefit,
or be something that someone hadto acknowledge and create? And
(24:10):
then, you know, reap thebenefits from like, have you
seen this play out with realclients and real people that
you've talked with?
Jim Eisenbeck (24:17):
Absolutely. And, and, again, real world is, is
about practicality and fit, andit's meaningless. If it's not a
decision making tool, you know,just to have it on paper, if it
sits in a drawer, and you don'treference this or make decisions
by it, then why bother? So, youknow, and the other side of this
is you have to be honest aboutyour organization's ability to
deliver, whether it be productor equipment or service, you
(24:40):
know, geography, whatever itmight be. And so, you know, I
would, one of the questions thatI always put on top of this is,
you know, if it weren't for thefinancial gain, or reward of
doing business, is the companythat you're targeting, one that
you would actually choose towork with. And so I think that's
a really important decisionmaking factor. That couldn't be
(25:01):
considered as part of this.
Joey Strawn (25:03):
Yeah, that's that's an interesting one. Like, again,
it goes back to that, would yousay no, if money wasn't a factor
here, like ideal world? Wouldyou want to work with this
client? And if the answer isyes, then they fit into that,
you know, ICP, they fit intothat model and knowing and
understanding what thoseparameters are, per the context
of the realities of you know,your business. It sounds to be
(25:26):
extremely important. Now, soI've been, I've been hogging.
Jim, this whole time. Do youhave anything that you want to
ask before we kind of make himexplain some more real world
examples, too? Yeah.
Nels Jensen (25:37):
Well, I think I was gonna ask about real world
examples, too. So let's justskip to that. Can you? You know,
even even in our own case, canyou think of of how somebody
worked out maybe to be an idealclient? Or conversely, maybe
they didn't?
Jim Eisenbeck (25:53):
Absolutely. So we've had a client who went
through this exercise aboutdefining an ideal client that
they would choose to go after.
And they actually use thisframework to scrutinize some of
the opportunities in theirpipeline and actually decided at
the end of the day, that theywere not necessarily a fit, they
looked great, nice. For for therevenue side, but when they
(26:17):
really looked at the type ofcorporate philosophy and the
type of work they would likelyget, and they would probably be,
you know, forced to reducemargins year over year, they
really looked at, is this abusiness that's actually going
to drive us forward? And thedecisions were ultimately No,
and I think that that is thatcan be as important as to what
(26:39):
you don't take on, as is as towhat you do.
Joey Strawn (26:46):
Wow, that's yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, we
see it in our world, especiallyin the production world, that
Nelson I live in is that if youjust say yes to everything,
eventually the work suffers. AndI see that, I would see that in
the exact same scenarios. Andanalogous with this, as well as
if you are trying to literallysell your specific goods and
(27:07):
services or years, you know, inour world, industrial specific
goods and services to everybodyon the face of the planet.
That's a lot of wasted effort.
Not everybody can buy the stuffnot everybody can buy, it can
take advantage of what you haveto offer. So really putting up
those fences and putting upthose gates can. I mean, it
sounds to me, Jim, correct me ifI'm wrong, Jim. But it sounds
(27:28):
like it can save people fromspinning the wheels and wasting
a lot of time and effort.
Jim Eisenbeck (27:34):
Agreed. I will say that, aside from size and
revenue, and maybe market focus,some of the things that can also
be considered for what an idealclient might be is, you know, a
client that pushes you to grow,you know, if it provides
significant growth opportunity,if there's potential for more
work, if you know if they evencan offer resources and insights
(27:57):
that you might not haveotherwise, on your own. And
ultimately, you know, the easeof doing business you do you
like working with them? Andright, will they likely be an
advocate for you? Or providereferrals? There are several
things that can be at play here.
Joey Strawn (28:12):
Well, the referrals is an interesting one, too. Oh,
sorry. No,
Nels Jensen (28:15):
no, I was just gonna say that, you know, as
Joey, well knows, two of myfavorite phrases are adding
value and reducing friction. So,you know, how do you help each
other you add value to eachother? The growth point is a
good one, you know, it's, it'syou're going to learn and you're
going to grow from an idealclient. And you're also going to
help them by adding value andhelping them reduce friction to
(28:36):
I imagine. How about painpoints? Are there? Are there
certain pain points that are?
This is kind of a weirdly wordedquestion. You know, some pain is
worse than other pain. What doyou look for in terms of
potential pain points in a inthis evaluation?
Jim Eisenbeck (28:57):
I would say if you can discern early stage, if
there's enough potential growth,should you take maybe something
that's not a fit from theoutset, with the hopes of it
flourishing into somethinggreater, there's always a risk
that you run, it may not workout that way. So you do have to
(29:18):
do a bit of a risk rewardanalysis and see if something
like that is going to pan outfor you to see whether or not
you take the step forward inpartnership to try it out.
Joey Strawn (29:28):
Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, there's going to
be risk in anything in a gym. Ithank you for bringing that up.
And actually acknowledging thatbecause it is a real, you know,
stipulation in these there isgoing to be risk in the unknown,
but putting up those, those ICPparameters, like we talked about
can at least give some versionof clarity and help you have
those fifhost Those guideposts.
But yeah, you know,acknowledging the risk is an
(29:51):
important factor. You know, Jim,as we wrap up here, are there
any kind of closing words orclosing remarks that you You
want to leave people they don'tremember anything about what
we've talked about today, whichthey should come on guys take
notes while you listen to thispodcast are you doing? But if
they only if they're if they'regoing to remember some final
words, what would you say tokind of wrap up the importance
(30:12):
of the ICP mindset and whatyou're telling clients,
Jim Eisenbeck (30:18):
I would say, remember that an ICP is a
framework. It's not perfect.
It's a good guidebook. Anotherfactor is that an ICP can
actually help sales andmarketing teams together to be
more efficient and moreeffective in how they target
segment, even create content,personalize, and even nurture
(30:39):
customers and prospects throughthe sales process. So this is a
tool that can really bringharmony into two teams that
really should be workingtogether to ultimately help the
organization grow through newbusiness opportunities.
Joey Strawn (30:58):
Man, I couldn't have summarized that better
myself. And what a great way. Imean, we're here near the end of
our sales and sales enablementquarter on industrial Marketer
Podcast. And so we're gettinginto the weeds of what really
drives, businesses and contactsand marketing leads that drive
value and revenue forbusinesses. So Jim, thank you so
(31:20):
much for for being here andchatting with through this with
us today. It's always excitingfor Nelson i when we're talking
with people who are living thethings that we're talking about
every day.
Jim Eisenbeck (31:30):
This was great, thank you.
Joey Strawn (31:32):
Well, now, as always, it has been such a joy
to talk about industrialmarketing, and the tactics and
trends and tips and tools thatare going to help people in this
weird, wild world that we livein.
Nels Jensen (31:44):
Yeah, one more, one more power tool for the toolkit.
Joey Strawn (31:48):
So it's, I know, it's, it's exciting.
Nels Jensen (31:52):
I love the harmony with you get the sales
enablement on the back end ofthis and you really get crankin
This is good stuff.
Joey Strawn (32:00):
It's it's connecting all the pieces is
connecting all the dots, youknow what you use the word and
I'll segue off that it'sharmonious and it's very
pleasant. And honestly, this isthe season when all of that is
happening. We're getting to theend of the year and it's so
pleasant and harmonious andthere's songs and bells in the
air and you know what should bein the air is you subscribing to
(32:20):
the industrial marketingpodcast, the bell that should be
ringing as the bell that thing'severy time we have a new episode
coming out Silver Bells,subscribe to our podcasts. And
if you already are an industrialmarketer, listener, thank you
all as always, for listening toour show this week. And if you
haven't dived into theindustrial marketer, podcast
(32:41):
website to industrialmarketer.com And we have
articles and educationalmaterials galore on there. If
you live in the world of b2b orindustrial marketing, you need
to start that website you needto go find all the helpful stuff
that we have there. And untilnext time, I have been Joey on
the industrial Marketer Podcastand I've been joined by now as
(33:02):
as my fearless fearless co hostnow, until next time, I look
forward to chatting with youabout industrial marketing
again.
Welcome back everybody to another episode of
the industrial Marketer Podcastyour place for the tips, tech
trends and tactics forindustrial who care about
driving leads to theircompanies. I'm one of your hosts
as always Joey strong industrialmarketer advocate and all around
neat fella. I am joined asalways by my partner in crime,
(00:22):
my cohort, Nels on the shelfJensen, how are you? I'm a man.
I'm doing really well.
Nels Jensen (00:28):
Thank you, Joey, thanks for that nice
introduction.
Joey Strawn (00:30):
You're, you're very welcome. You know, it's always
it's nice that when we can getto this time of year, the
holiday season, pulled down ourNels on the shelf, put them on
content, advice and strategytips. It's just wonderful. Me
and my kids love it. We hide theNels on the shelf around every
single day.
Nels Jensen (00:47):
You never know, right? You never know when
you'll get some incredibleinsight from Nels on the shelf.
Joey Strawn (00:51):
Exactly. We come down every morning. And then
it's like, hey, write a casestudy. We're like, yay. Oh, man.
But today, we're not talkingabout case studies. Now today,
because we're still in ourquarter of sales focus is the
end of the year, people aresetting their budgets, people
are getting their proposals anditems in line for next year,
(01:12):
people are looking for those newsales that are going to really
fill in their bottom line intheir pipeline for 2022. And so
this quarter, we're dedicated toall sales topics that are
important to beat a BS andindustrials dealing with these
markets, the pandemic has setcrazy supply chain problems,
companies are moving in allsorts of new ways and looking at
(01:35):
new partners. And whetherthey're going in the
sustainability route or lookingfor cheaper partners and supply
chain manufacturing paths.
Everybody is looking right nowto find their best and most
ideal partners. And that's allwhat this episode is about
NetSuite you and I are reallyhyper focusing in on the ICP, or
the ideal customer profile. Nowin the wider sales world. That's
(02:01):
a very general term. But now youand I were focusing on the
industrial b2b markets. Andthat's where you and I are going
to live today. How excited areyou to talk about that?
Well, that's where that's wherewe live every day, Joey. And
it's, it's a, it's a narrowworld in the sense of some of
(02:21):
the some of the verticals, it'sa, you know, elongated world in
terms of buying cycles. Andthat's what makes this
challenging, right? How do youmight not have a, you might not
have a large pool of clients.
But if you can get aligned withthe right ones, then you're
golden.
That is, and now that is such agreat summary of kind of why
(02:43):
it's so important. So a coupleof things, we do have a special
guest today now. So you and Ihave have gone into the world
and pulled in a businessdevelopment expert, someone who
deals with this every day in theindustrial sectors, and is
talking to companies about theirideal client profiles. And he
obviously has one for himselfthat he's trying to identify. So
(03:05):
Jim, the jam man is coming inlater. And he is going to tell
us all about real worldpractical applications, and how
he helps other people getnumerical trackable ways to talk
to the right people. But beforewe even do that, let's set the
stage a little bit about whatokay, what the heck is an ICP?
(03:28):
What are we talking about here?
And like, how is it different?
Or is it the same thing as atarget persona? How do b2b Is
use them? And why and when mightthey use them? And then we're
gonna let Jim tell us somespecifics. So now, I want to
start by giving the definitionof an ICP. I know you and I talk
about acronyms, we loveacronyms, but the ideal customer
(03:49):
profile. So when we talk aboutthe ideal customer profile, what
we are talking about ahypothetical company, or
organization that you can mapout on paper that would get the
most benefit from working withyour organization. So yes, step
that best just a little bit. Butyeah, no. So what do you take
from that? What do you hear? Soto me a definition.
Nels Jensen (04:10):
To me, there's a couple of simple ways to look at
this as well, definition spoton, but it's the intersection,
right of your capabilities andsomebody else's needs, right?
Got to be a good match fromthere. And it's also somebody
who will work with you to addvalue and work with you to
reduce friction. You know, it'sthose those are two key
(04:35):
components in any good businessto business relationship, right?
It's not just making a widget.
It's not just providing softwaresupport, you know, it's about
adding value. It's about, youknow, how do you how can you
work with this person? And thatcan be for in terms of all sorts
of things that we're going totalk about, but we can talk
about the pain points, we cantalk about budgets, you There's
(04:58):
there's a bunch of checkboxesalmost that go into the ideal
client profile. And obviously,one of them is the ability to
work together to add value foreach other.
Joey Strawn (05:13):
I couldn't agree more. And I love how you put
that as the is the intersection.
And finding value is findingthat benefit benefit is the
intersection of all the data andall the things we know and all
the things we do to really puttogether this profile of who is
going to work best with us. Andwhat we mean by that it's not
who's gonna make the most money,it's not the biggest name in
(05:34):
your market, there's a lot ofways that when you hear that
term was like a hypotheticalcompany that would like be the
greatest that we could workwith, you have to take a very
serious approach to this,because it's not going to be
just the biggest names in theindustry, it's not going to be
the biggest brands in the world,a lot of in a lot of cases,
(05:55):
especially with the b2b andindustrial markets, bigger is
not always better, the moregeneral and the more inclusive,
that your ideal customer profileis, the more watered down so it
can fit in more people and morecompanies and more brands, the
less effective eventually it'sgoing to be one of the things
(06:17):
that really, really, I thinkwe're going to pinpoint this
with Jim later is that whenyou're thinking of an ICP, or an
AI, deal, or profile, you needto think of the companies that
are realistic to work with size,budget, timing, all of that. And
we'll talk about thoseparameters in section two. But
(06:37):
they also need to be a realisticpartner for you. So if they
don't have the accountingfunctions, or if they don't have
the turnaround times, or vendorrelationships that you prefer,
there are some companies I knowthat are trying to get net zero
on sustainability. So they'reworking with only suppliers who
match their sustainabilitygoals. So whatever your
(06:59):
stipulations may be, as findingthat ideal partner is more than
just company is more than justExxon who has $8 billion, and we
want money. So that's where Ireally want to get more in with
Jim in the weeds on this. Butthe idea behind an ideal
customer profile isn't so muchthat it's just like a target
persona. We've talked abouttarget personas before. But
(07:20):
those are the person you'retalking to, you can have
multiple target personas withinin the ideal customer customer
profiles. So you know, thecompany that you need to go
after, and that's your ICP, butwithin any ICP, there may be a
target persona of 123 or fourstakeholders that will have to
(07:40):
be convinced along the way.
Nels Jensen (07:44):
Certainly, right.
Especially in industrial whereyou're talking about
engineering, you're talkingabout, you know, operations,
you're talking about purchasing,you know, those three very
divergent areas of a company.
And so obviously, you're goingto have that. So you know, one
thing that I have not dealt alot with ideal client profiles,
but I always hear it associatedwith Lifetime Customer Value,
(08:07):
you know, is that? Well, I'msure we'll talk more with Jim
about that. But that's also, youknow, I'm not sure that that
ideal customer could be a shortterm customer too, right?
Obviously, it's great. You canhave organic growth, you can
work together, you could everretainer, oh, you know, but um,
yeah. So, you know, just helpedme a little bit with framing,
you know, how you view customersfrom a short term long term
(08:30):
proposition here?
Joey Strawn (08:32):
That's, that's a fantastic question. I do want
Jim to dive into that. But frommy from my standpoint, and from
my experience, you can have anideal client profile or ideal
customer profile that targetsproject accounts, it depends on
the company. And I know a lot oftimes in marketing as well, it
depends. This right does.
Because if you have a revenuestream, that's totally baked in
(08:53):
on turnaround project accounts,like you have a machine that has
downtime, and you're justpumping out projects, and that's
a revenue stream that isvaluable to your business,
there's no reality in where Iwould tell you not to have an
ideal customer profile aroundthose types of projects. But for
those, the ideal client profileparameters might need to be this
(09:15):
time, this turnaround time. Ithas to use this machine,
obviously the one that has thedowntime and availability and
that machine only does a coupleof functions. So if you're using
you know, a water, if you'relike water jetting or water
cutting, you're not going to beable to then turn around and
fabricate a widget from that. Socapabilities of the output is
(09:37):
very, very, is very, veryhelpful. So project accounts and
project revenue streams candefinitely have some, most of
the time though. 80% or more.
When we're talking ICP, we'rethinking long term customers,
right? So I guess I practicerevenue over over a long period.
(10:00):
of time.
Nels Jensen (10:00):
Sure. So So I guess my Let me try asking a question
in a slightly different way,because an ideal customer might
have four different metrics thatyou sort of view this from. But
let's say that somebody comesalong and they're in your sweet
spot for men were awesome atdoing X. And they want us to do
(10:21):
X, and they have the budget, andthey have, but they don't have a
third or a fourth element, butthey still could be a match.
Right? So I, you know, are wetalking ideal ideal? Are we
talking more like a gradientscale where you just want to
move more toward the idealwhenever possible?
Joey Strawn (10:41):
Man, you ask some tough, great questions. Now,
it's more the second, I wouldsay because obviously, and Jim
will tell you this, becauseJim's on the floor, he's on the
ground floor doing this. And heknows that, while you always
have a framework, there aregoing to be situations that call
for an audible or an aggressionor,
Nels Jensen (11:00):
We should hit we should hit we should hit Jim up
with this, because this is theworld he lives in.
Joey Strawn (11:05):
Yeah, because that's, that's probably what
you're looking for it and Idon't want to put words in his
mouth. And I'm going to, if hesays at 20, I'm going to just
burst out laughing, but probablyat 20 is you want to have
confidence enough, and about 80or 80% of them, but you know
that 20% of them are just goingto be all over the place, you
may have these parameters andthese elements, but they don't
(11:27):
have the budget, but that'sokay. Because you can, it can be
a door into a larger project, orsomeone that they're a vendor
with that you need acollaboration with. So yeah,
always gonna be those sidesteps,I'd say 20 to 30% of the time.
But for most of it the core,you're trying to find something
that will meticulously turnaround consistent quality. And
(11:50):
that's it sort of the same ideais, you know, nails when you and
I are talking in the marketingsense of like a marketing
qualified lead or a salesqualified lead, it's a little
bit of that is where we havescores, we have very specific
parameters in ideal world. Butman, if someone is just a
perfect fit, and they are nottaking the activities that get
(12:10):
them the score they need, and wenoticed them, we still have to
pursue that sale, that's stillan opportunity. So yes, we can
talk about we can talk with Jimabout where you pivot, and how
often you know, that becomesvaluable. But at some point, you
have to be able to draw the lineand say, You know what? That
doesn't fit? Like? That's aticket. That's a deal. Sure,
(12:32):
yeah. To quote 30 rock. Likecustomer budgets.
Nels Jensen (12:39):
We all live that world
Joey Strawn (12:40):
Exactly. Those are things that everyone is always
thinking about when they'reputting these ideal client and
customer profiles together. Youknow, I think, I think we should
probably mosey on down to theshop floor and see what Jim has
to say, because I keep almostputting words in Jim's mouth.
And I think he's just going tobe able to tell us exactly how
(13:02):
he's helped customers andclients talk about this and
approach this and think aboutthis. And so if we really want
to give value to the industrialmarketers listening to this
episode, we got to get out ofthe shop floor and have Jim,
start telling them what's what.
Let's do it. All right, now,let's head on down and meet some
gym the gym man. Oh, now, wemade it to the shop floor.
(13:27):
Welcome. Welcome to the shopfloor with me. Are you ready to
dive in and actually talk aboutICPs? And how to put them to use
with someone who does it forreal?
Nels Jensen (13:38):
Yeah, this is gonna be a good segment.
Joey Strawn (13:39):
Let's go. Okay. I am so excited that we teased
this earlier on in the episode,but we have a business
development professional. Thisis a guy who works in the
industrial spaces. He livesaround b2b. He's he's talking to
industrial companies everysingle day. We are so happy to
have him on the industrialMarketer Podcast. Please,
(14:01):
everybody. Welcome, Jim. The Jamman is back. How are you, Jim?
Jim Eisenbeck (14:06):
Hey, Joey. I'm doing great. Thanks for having
me.
Joey Strawn (14:09):
Oh, it is such a pleasure to have you here. Jim.
Just to give you a little bit ofa context and catch up, we spent
the entire first half of thisepisode talking about what an
ICP is an industrial client orcustomer profile. And you know,
we were talking conceptually onhow you put them together. And
when, you know, some times youmight want to think about using
(14:29):
them. But we really got to apoint where we were thinking,
you know, what's really going toput this into context for our
listeners, for the people thatare dealing with this on a day
to day basis is for us toactually talk to somebody who
deals with this on a day to daybasis. And when Nelson I put our
heads together, we couldn'tthink of anybody more qualified
to talk about ICPs and how toactually use them for a for
(14:53):
benefit. And to ID ID eight onwhat is going to make and drive
success for a brand then you So,Jim, thank you so much for being
our expert on ICPs today,
Jim Eisenbeck (15:05):
That's awesome.
Looking forward to talking aboutit, Stevan?
Joey Strawn (15:09):
Oh, right. So okay, so here's the first question
that I have for you. And we'regonna start off General, I
defined sort of my definitionof, you know, the ICP, a
hypothetical company that wouldbenefit from, you know, working
with a company or a brand. But Iwant you to dive in a little bit
deeper. And tell me a little bitabout what how you define an ICP
(15:30):
and who needs them?
Jim Eisenbeck (15:33):
Gotcha. Well, an ideal client is a representative
of that kind of company,organization that you would most
like to do business with. It's,you know, from an organizational
standpoint, it's those companiesthat you can best serve those
companies who can derive valueand actually benefit from what
your organization provides. SoI, you know, where I find it
(15:56):
helpful in my day to day is,it's, you know, it's, it's as
important to know whichpotential customers are actually
good prospects, as well asreally understanding those that
aren't and why they aren't. Soyou know, where to focus your
efforts.
Joey Strawn (16:09):
Okay, so So when, when you're thinking about it
with every company out thereneed an ICP? Like, is that
something that's going tobenefit everybody? Or who are
the types of people andcompanies that should be
thinking about? I'm using themand really diving in on them?
Jim Eisenbeck (16:25):
I would say anyone who relies on a customer
to keep their business rely,
Joey Strawn (16:31):
Okay. Okay, your client? Okay, well, that I mean,
that that makes that make sense.
I mean, what what do you think?
Like, I mean, obviously,companies can't go after every
person out in in the world. Sowhat are some of the factors are
what are some of the resourcesand some of the thought
processes, when people arethinking of setting an ICP up or
(16:55):
getting their mind around? Wherethey need to start when they're
looking at their currentportfolio or their client lists?
Where would you tell people thatare like, where should they
start? What should they focuson?
Jim Eisenbeck (17:06):
Well, again, you know, ideal is the operative
word and an ideal client, it'snot always going to be perfect.
One of the ways that's common tostart is by just understanding
and looking at the customersthat you already have, you know,
and identifying some of thosecommon traits, what makes them a
good client for you? And really,what is the selection criteria
(17:27):
that matters most for yourorganization, as you consider
other new business partners tojoin with. And so ideally, at
the end of the day, it's aboutcreating the mix that works for
you and your organization.
Joey Strawn (17:40):
Okay, so it is going to it is going to differ,
it's not just a set, you knowthat the ideal client profile
isn't a set, like five bulletpoints that then every company
on the face of the planet uses.
So there is going to be a littlebit of that mix. I mean, how do
how do they think through someof those options? I mean,
obviously, sighs reve...I know,you talk revenue all day long,
(18:01):
with with companies, but I mean,like, what are some of the
things that they should beconsidering or thinking of or
prioritizing?
Jim Eisenbeck (18:09):
Well, first and foremost, I always advocate for
keeping it simple. And some ofthe common categories that you
may consider prospectivebusiness partners, like you
said, they might be based onsize and revenue as one of the
criteria. It might even be thetype of organization or the
market focus that they have, itmight be the type or the volume
(18:31):
of work that you can expect fromthem, depending on what your
organization does. If you'remaking chips and parts might be
volumes that you're looking forin production runs. It might be
also something like the revenuetarget, even the billing terms,
if they're favorable to you,Will the work be profitable?
(18:52):
There, there are several itemsthat those are just a few.
Joey Strawn (18:55):
Right? Well, I mean, wow, that's, that's a
that's an awesome list. One ofthe things we talked about it,
it kind of goes in with revenueand profit and generation is we
talked earlier in the episodeabout like, lifetime value, and
you know, factoring in like theactual companies that, that
provide value to the, to youruniverse, into your portfolio
into your business preferences,and speciality and things like
(19:18):
that. So I'm, I'm happy to hearyou say that it's like, you
know, they value the solution.
They work alongside, you know,the companies that you would
work with, and obviously, marketfocus, you know, you don't want
to be targeting people that areoutside your areas of expertise.
So, yeah, I can I could totallysee those being a major thing.
Nels Jensen (19:38):
I got a question here. Is, is this an always on
kind of mindset? Or is this morein play for a growth company or
a company that's lost clientsand is looking to replace work
or when markets or markets aretight what you know, are there
certain times when ICP is moreapplicable than others?
Jim Eisenbeck (20:01):
I would look at this as an always on, because it
is where you place your efforts,organizations have finite
resources, there's only so muchyou can do in a day. And where
an ICP really can come into playis it can be a framework for
scrutinizing the businessopportunities that you have in
front of you can help you keepyour focus and gain more of
(20:21):
those customers who actually area good fit for you. And without
that focus, you know,organizations can find that they
may be holding on to customersthat really aren't a fit our
drain taking resources away frommore profitable work, and
actually presenting preventingthe growth. So, you know, it can
negatively impact revenue, itcan revenue, you know,
negatively impact businessstrategy, operations, team
(20:43):
morale, and it can have somesome accumulative effects.
Joey Strawn (20:48):
Yeah, well, and that's an interesting point that
you made there at the end, Jim,about, you know, if you're
holding on to a customer thatmay actually not be providing
value to you, if it doesn'tmeet, you know, if you put this
together correctly, then if aclient doesn't meet that
profile, then there are somequestions to ask. And that's the
tough part about like, thisspecific conversation is, you
(21:09):
know, we won't beat around thebush, at some point in time, you
may have to make the decision tofire a client or not go after a
customer. And that sounds weirdwhen you're talking business
when you're talking, you know,revenue growth to say, Oh, we're
gonna say no, to that business.
But if you're following an ICPmodel, hope, you know,
hopefully, it gives you thefreedom to say no more often. I
mean, Jim, have you found thattalking with people in the real
(21:33):
world are people who are trying,you know, companies putting
these together that are that arestruggling with the idea of
like, well, how do we say no topeople who aren't a fit?
Jim Eisenbeck (21:44):
I've definitely heard it in action, from clients
who use this framework to makedecisions around those types of
prospects that they're wantingto do business with, knowing
that they might be resourceconstrained. And the reality is
you never know everything rightcustomer until you're actually
doing business with them, right.
So there's always going to bethings that you'll learn. But
again, if you use the ICP, as aguideline, it's just a way to
(22:06):
scrutinize the opportunities.
Nels Jensen (22:10):
That's, I love that. What so ideal is wonderful
in theory, in practice, it's atarget, right? How do you rank
criteria? Or what? How do you?
How do you decide what you cancompromise on and what you can't
compromise on, when honing in onideal or nearly ideal customers?
Jim Eisenbeck (22:33):
That's a great question. So in our world of
industrial marketing, we have adefined set of criteria for
those ideal customers that wewould like to work with. We look
at revenue, we look at thingslike leadership involvement, we
look for accountable resources,we find that those make the best
partners for us when we havesomeone that we can work with
(22:55):
hand in hand, who has a keypoint of contact. But there are
times when on paper, andopportunity might not look
perfect. But it could be aninitial engagement from a
notable brand, that looks greaton the roster, there can be any
number of decisions that mightopen the door to other
opportunities down the road, andthings that we might consider
(23:16):
those x factors, if you will,that helped us really determine
is this an opportunity worthpursuing and something that we
want to go after?
Joey Strawn (23:26):
So there's always a little bit of I mean, we live in
the world of marketing. Sothere's always a little bit of
it depends in there. Jim, as Ihear, that makes me feel better.
Because we always love our itdepends answer in the world of
marketing. So it sounds likethere's a little bit of bake
that bake of that baked into theDNA here. Now, Jim, you talked
about putting this intopractice. And actually, you
(23:48):
know, in a real world context,ideal is a key word. You had
mentioned that earlier. So whenit comes to the real world, and
that's sort of what this on theshop floor segment is all about,
is, you know, for peoplelistening to this, what are some
real world examples? How haveyou seen this, either benefit,
or be something that someone hadto acknowledge and create? And
(24:10):
then, you know, reap thebenefits from like, have you
seen this play out with realclients and real people that
you've talked with?
Jim Eisenbeck (24:17):
Absolutely. And, and, again, real world is, is
about practicality and fit, andit's meaningless. If it's not a
decision making tool, you know,just to have it on paper, if it
sits in a drawer, and you don'treference this or make decisions
by it, then why bother? So, youknow, and the other side of this
is you have to be honest aboutyour organization's ability to
deliver, whether it be productor equipment or service, you
(24:40):
know, geography, whatever itmight be. And so, you know, I
would, one of the questions thatI always put on top of this is,
you know, if it weren't for thefinancial gain, or reward of
doing business, is the companythat you're targeting, one that
you would actually choose towork with. And so I think that's
a really important decisionmaking factor. That couldn't be
(25:01):
considered as part of this.
Joey Strawn (25:03):
Yeah, that's that's an interesting one. Like, again,
it goes back to that, would yousay no, if money wasn't a factor
here, like ideal world? Wouldyou want to work with this
client? And if the answer isyes, then they fit into that,
you know, ICP, they fit intothat model and knowing and
understanding what thoseparameters are, per the context
of the realities of you know,your business. It sounds to be
(25:26):
extremely important. Now, soI've been, I've been hogging.
Jim, this whole time. Do youhave anything that you want to
ask before we kind of make himexplain some more real world
examples, too? Yeah.
Nels Jensen (25:37):
Well, I think I was gonna ask about real world
examples, too. So let's justskip to that. Can you? You know,
even even in our own case, canyou think of of how somebody
worked out maybe to be an idealclient? Or conversely, maybe
they didn't?
Jim Eisenbeck (25:53):
Absolutely. So we've had a client who went
through this exercise aboutdefining an ideal client that
they would choose to go after.
And they actually use thisframework to scrutinize some of
the opportunities in theirpipeline and actually decided at
the end of the day, that theywere not necessarily a fit, they
looked great, nice. For for therevenue side, but when they
(26:17):
really looked at the type ofcorporate philosophy and the
type of work they would likelyget, and they would probably be,
you know, forced to reducemargins year over year, they
really looked at, is this abusiness that's actually going
to drive us forward? And thedecisions were ultimately No,
and I think that that is thatcan be as important as to what
(26:39):
you don't take on, as is as towhat you do.
Joey Strawn (26:46):
Wow, that's yeah, no, I totally agree. I mean, we
see it in our world, especiallyin the production world, that
Nelson I live in is that if youjust say yes to everything,
eventually the work suffers. AndI see that, I would see that in
the exact same scenarios. Andanalogous with this, as well as
if you are trying to literallysell your specific goods and
(27:07):
services or years, you know, inour world, industrial specific
goods and services to everybodyon the face of the planet.
That's a lot of wasted effort.
Not everybody can buy the stuffnot everybody can buy, it can
take advantage of what you haveto offer. So really putting up
those fences and putting upthose gates can. I mean, it
sounds to me, Jim, correct me ifI'm wrong, Jim. But it sounds
(27:28):
like it can save people fromspinning the wheels and wasting
a lot of time and effort.
Jim Eisenbeck (27:34):
Agreed. I will say that, aside from size and
revenue, and maybe market focus,some of the things that can also
be considered for what an idealclient might be is, you know, a
client that pushes you to grow,you know, if it provides
significant growth opportunity,if there's potential for more
work, if you know if they evencan offer resources and insights
(27:57):
that you might not haveotherwise, on your own. And
ultimately, you know, the easeof doing business you do you
like working with them? Andright, will they likely be an
advocate for you? Or providereferrals? There are several
things that can be at play here.
Joey Strawn (28:12):
Well, the referrals is an interesting one, too. Oh,
sorry. No,
Nels Jensen (28:15):
no, I was just gonna say that, you know, as
Joey, well knows, two of myfavorite phrases are adding
value and reducing friction. So,you know, how do you help each
other you add value to eachother? The growth point is a
good one, you know, it's, it'syou're going to learn and you're
going to grow from an idealclient. And you're also going to
help them by adding value andhelping them reduce friction to
(28:36):
I imagine. How about painpoints? Are there? Are there
certain pain points that are?
This is kind of a weirdly wordedquestion. You know, some pain is
worse than other pain. What doyou look for in terms of
potential pain points in a inthis evaluation?
Jim Eisenbeck (28:57):
I would say if you can discern early stage, if
there's enough potential growth,should you take maybe something
that's not a fit from theoutset, with the hopes of it
flourishing into somethinggreater, there's always a risk
that you run, it may not workout that way. So you do have to
(29:18):
do a bit of a risk rewardanalysis and see if something
like that is going to pan outfor you to see whether or not
you take the step forward inpartnership to try it out.
Joey Strawn (29:28):
Yeah, that's, that's, I mean, there's going to
be risk in anything in a gym. Ithank you for bringing that up.
And actually acknowledging thatbecause it is a real, you know,
stipulation in these there isgoing to be risk in the unknown,
but putting up those, those ICPparameters, like we talked about
can at least give some versionof clarity and help you have
those fifhost Those guideposts.
But yeah, you know,acknowledging the risk is an
(29:51):
important factor. You know, Jim,as we wrap up here, are there
any kind of closing words orclosing remarks that you You
want to leave people they don'tremember anything about what
we've talked about today, whichthey should come on guys take
notes while you listen to thispodcast are you doing? But if
they only if they're if they'regoing to remember some final
words, what would you say tokind of wrap up the importance
(30:12):
of the ICP mindset and whatyou're telling clients,
Jim Eisenbeck (30:18):
I would say, remember that an ICP is a
framework. It's not perfect.
It's a good guidebook. Anotherfactor is that an ICP can
actually help sales andmarketing teams together to be
more efficient and moreeffective in how they target
segment, even create content,personalize, and even nurture
(30:39):
customers and prospects throughthe sales process. So this is a
tool that can really bringharmony into two teams that
really should be workingtogether to ultimately help the
organization grow through newbusiness opportunities.
Joey Strawn (30:58):
Man, I couldn't have summarized that better
myself. And what a great way. Imean, we're here near the end of
our sales and sales enablementquarter on industrial Marketer
Podcast. And so we're gettinginto the weeds of what really
drives, businesses and contactsand marketing leads that drive
value and revenue forbusinesses. So Jim, thank you so
(31:20):
much for for being here andchatting with through this with
us today. It's always excitingfor Nelson i when we're talking
with people who are living thethings that we're talking about
every day.
Jim Eisenbeck (31:30):
This was great, thank you.
Joey Strawn (31:32):
Well, now, as always, it has been such a joy
to talk about industrialmarketing, and the tactics and
trends and tips and tools thatare going to help people in this
weird, wild world that we livein.
Nels Jensen (31:44):
Yeah, one more, one more power tool for the toolkit.
Joey Strawn (31:48):
So it's, I know, it's, it's exciting.
Nels Jensen (31:52):
I love the harmony with you get the sales
enablement on the back end ofthis and you really get crankin
This is good stuff.
Joey Strawn (32:00):
It's it's connecting all the pieces is
connecting all the dots, youknow what you use the word and
I'll segue off that it'sharmonious and it's very
pleasant. And honestly, this isthe season when all of that is
happening. We're getting to theend of the year and it's so
pleasant and harmonious andthere's songs and bells in the
air and you know what should bein the air is you subscribing to
(32:20):
the industrial marketingpodcast, the bell that should be
ringing as the bell that thing'severy time we have a new episode
coming out Silver Bells,subscribe to our podcasts. And
if you already are an industrialmarketer, listener, thank you
all as always, for listening toour show this week. And if you
haven't dived into theindustrial marketer, podcast
(32:41):
website to industrialmarketer.com And we have
articles and educationalmaterials galore on there. If
you live in the world of b2b orindustrial marketing, you need
to start that website you needto go find all the helpful stuff
that we have there. And untilnext time, I have been Joey on
the industrial Marketer Podcastand I've been joined by now as
(33:02):
as my fearless fearless co hostnow, until next time, I look
forward to chatting with youabout industrial marketing
again.
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