"Beats, Rhymes and Zombies'

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Yo, what's up?

Speaker 2 (00:00):
This is DJ m Rock and you are listening to
the Man, the Myth, the legend, the dopest transform of
all of the Scepticons. DJ Soundwave on Infinite Banter. Keep
it on lock Peace Infinite Banter podcast.

Speaker 3 (00:15):
Baby here.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
It is another episode of the Infinite Banter podcast. What
is going on? My name is Mark Jolliffe also known
as DJ Soundwave. Thanks for checking out the show. Got
another one here that I'm really hyped to bring to you. Guys,
a man DJ m Rock. You've heard him on production
on the new Public Enemy album. He's worked on the
new Chuck d album, and he has his own project

(01:06):
coming out with Pavo called Green Moon Rising. If you
like zombies and hip hop and a post apocalyptic theme
with all kinds of cool chaos and sounds in the background,
this is the album for you. It's coming out September thirtieth.
We're going to talk to DJ Emrock about that project
and a lot more. Really hyped to have him on here,
as I've been hyping on these last couple episodes. He's

(01:27):
part of that collective that works hand in hand with
Spitslam Records, and they put together projects for legends like
Chuck Dy in Public Enemy Filmost Chill, so many artists
that are associated with these guys. This is a real
thrill to talk to him. Sea Doc on my last
episode on Ultramag seven. So if you have not heard
any of those past episodes, well here's a chance for

(01:48):
you to hear a clip because we always do this,
play a flashback from the last episode. My man Sea
Doc was on the last episode one of DJ Mrock's
Partners in Crime right here. So here we go flashback
last episode with Sea Doc here on the Infinite banch
of podcast Flashback.

Speaker 4 (02:04):
Chuck said to me, like the greatest compliment I've ever got.

Speaker 2 (02:07):
In my life for anything, I think.

Speaker 4 (02:09):
He said, you made the record that I've always.

Speaker 1 (02:14):
Wanted to make.

Speaker 4 (02:15):
And I kind of looked at him and immediately thought, yo, man,
you may.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
Fight the power. What are you talking about it?

Speaker 5 (02:21):
Right?

Speaker 4 (02:21):
You know, it's like you made you made Nations, you
made Fear of a Black Planet. Fear of a Black
Planet is probably my favorite album ever. So I was
kind of like looking at him, like seriously, and he
said and then he explained it, and he said, I've
always had these sounds in my head that no producer
has been able to translate to a record that's said, yeah,
he said the bombs flat of his clothes.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know, that's why those records are the way they are.
He goes, But I've I've always heard these.

Speaker 4 (02:48):
Songs where, you know, because you got to remember that
Chuck got his start in radio. He wanted to be
a radio right, That's what he wanted to do, And
so the fact that we were kind of emulating that,
then it kind of made sense. It's like, oh okay,
and like you said, and like other people have said that,
it's like going through the dial on a radio station.

Speaker 1 (03:12):
Definitely go back and check out that episode with Sea Doc.
Lots to get into with that episode, or so much
that we covered and so much that we probably still
need to cover. A really good episode, a lot of
fun talking with Sea Doc. Check out his podcast It's
se Doc again. And I've been calling these episodes that
I've been doing with Sea Doc Ultramac seven and today's
episode coming up here with dj Emrock Trilogy of podcast episodes.

(03:34):
I mean, there are three guys that are all connected
but have very different stories and a lot to bring
to each episode, so that are standalone episodes. But man,
they're connected to So if you listen to all three
of these, you kind of get a whole idea and
how they all work together and the timeline of things,
and you know, they're all connected to Public Enemy, one
of my favorite groups of all time, Chuck D. You know,
salute and really cool to hear these guys tell stories

(03:57):
about working with them. And you can hear more that
coming up here with DJ m Rock because he had
a lot to do with some of the recent projects
for Spitzlam as well as Chuck D and Public Enemy.
All right, let's get in today's episode besides talking to
DJ m Rock, stay tuned for that. But I finally
did it. I talked about how it's gonna drink this
Jason themed Angry Orchard apple cider, So I'll talk about

(04:20):
it later in the episode. Not a whole lot I
could do in a audio version, but I'll probably make
a video someday of me pouring it and drinking it.
But right now, I'll just give a quick synopsis on
what I think of it. Go ahead and grab some
if you have a chance. It's called the Thriller Pack
from Angry Orchard. I'm a big Jason fan, Halloween is
right around the corner. We got the pumpkin stuff out,
the pecan stuff is out. Now go ahead and get

(04:41):
yourself some fall flavored drinks. So salute to Angry Orchard
for doing that and bringing Jason back. Kind of not
all the way. There's like a short fifteen minute film
you can watch on YouTube. Just type in Sweet Revenge
you'll be able to find it. Also, since I talk
a lot about zombies with DJ Mrock, he did eight
my five favorite zombie themed shows and or movies. I'll

(05:04):
talk about that way at the end of the podcast here,
so you can get through this whole thing just a
little bit at the end the little teaser there, so
stay tuned for that. But this is right here, the
Infinite Banter podcast. You can find it on all platforms,
rate and review it. Check out the show on YouTube.
I have some videos that I've been putting out on
there because I'm a nerd, as you'll find out even more,
and I collect things, and I was like, you know what,

(05:26):
maybe it's time I make some five to ten minute
videos about some of the things I collect and do
a video about them. So they're on YouTube. They're called
things and Stuff, So Walking Dead reference if you're not
sure when Rick says that. Throughout the first couple of seasons,
things and stuff, and I do a lot of reviews
on things like the Slick rickfigure from Super seven, who
is sponsored to podcast superseven dot com slash Infinite banch podcast.

(05:49):
They got all these great toys. I got Gi Joe
figures and ThunderCats figures and tons of hip hop figures,
which I have a lot of them. I need to
start doing a few more of those. I'm just afraid
to open up my Eric Bean rock King paid in full.
I don't know if I should open and I'm worried
about damaging it or my BC boy sabotage figures. But whatever,
I guess I gotta do it that I said I
was going to. So check out the sponsor superseven dot

(06:12):
com slash Infinite Banter podcast. Go on YouTube. Type in
Infinite Banter Podcasts for those videos, and some select episodes
of the show are on there as well. Rate and
review the show. Find a show on all social media
at Infinite Banter podcast. I say all, but there's a
certain one I don't use anymore. It's a letter now
needs to be about a bird. You can do the
math on that. I've been digging Threads though I've been

(06:34):
on there more often, so salute the threads, the alternative
to that other one, but definitely appreciate all the support
and everybody's been reposting and liking and just listening to
the show. All right, let's get into it. Enough of
my babbling. DJ Mrock is here. Do we talk about
a lot of things. But before we do anything, the
show never starts. It never begins. It's not official to
the one and only Daryl McDaniels, the King from Queens

(06:55):
gets on, he says this, and now the show can begin. Yo, Yo,
what's up this?

Speaker 2 (07:00):
It's me DMC to K I and G the greatest
MC in history.

Speaker 6 (07:04):
And right now you're listening to Infinite Banta because we
will banter on forever, because this is the only place
for all of you all to ever be.

Speaker 2 (07:13):
I be Infinite Banta.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
You're tuned into the Infinite Banter podcast. I'm DJ Soundwave
and I'm really hyped to bring onto the show, a
DJ and producer who has worked on recent projects from
Chuck d Public Enemy, philmost Chill, and he has a
new project with Pavo called Green Moon Rising, Welcome to
the show. DJ Producer, Fellows, Star Wars and Comic Nerd,
the One and Only DJ Mbrock. What's up, man, yo

(07:40):
yo yo.

Speaker 2 (07:41):
I think you captured everything that was perfect.

Speaker 1 (07:43):
Yeah, man, I mean and I feel, you know, when
I was typing this, I'm like, comic nerd, like nerd?
Are we still calling each other nerds?

Speaker 2 (07:49):
Like?

Speaker 1 (07:49):
I think nerd is like a term of endearment. Now
it's not like a hateful word like in the eighties
like Revenge of the Nerds or something, it was like
a it's like an insult. I think. Now it's like,
you know, yeah, you we embrace it. So hey man,
oh yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
I don't know if you watch Anthony Fantano on YouTube
reviewing music, but he calls himself the world's biggest music
nerd or something like that.

Speaker 1 (08:08):
Oh so yeah, yeah, to just do it, just just
live with it, own it. That's what it is. And
I call myself a comic nerd or Star Wars dork
all the time. And you know, I think for the
most part, self deprecating humor is a good way to
go as it is, so you know, if someone wants
to call me out on it, so be it. But
I don't pretend to be like an expert either. So

(08:29):
there's like, eh, I know all the names of all
you know, the wookies, Like I don't know that stuff, dude.
I just I just know this and that, and you know,
slow down on some of the other stuff. So yeah,
I can't go to that next level of nerdom. Yeah,
I don't know what I'm talking about anymore. Man, things
are coming through.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
Yeah, man, there's so much I want to get to.
But you know, before we get to the albums and
all the production stuff, perhaps our listening or maybe not
familiar with your work quick background. You know how long
you been doing production and DJing and you know where
you got your start and everything like that.

Speaker 2 (08:59):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I'll try not to ramble. So
if it's going too long to say, okay, we've got
enough of you.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Well you know what, Like I told c Doc, it
shows called infinite bancers, So I don't cut you off.
I'm not like, hey man, you gotta give me two
minute clips of a answers here. It's all good man,
however long it takes long it takes man.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Man, Well, thank you. I'll try to do the cliff
Notes version. There you go ahead. I'm fifty two years old,
and so I was blessed to grow up in the
golden era of hip hop. Man, and I discovered hip
hop around eighty three eighty four. I was already taking
piano lessons and playing drums. I knew that I wanted
to make music of some sort. And when I heard
hip hop for the first time and I saw people

(09:40):
break dancing and I saw the graffiti, it was like
a lightning bolt struck me and my world was changed
in that very moment. The first song was Sucker MC's
by run DMC, and it was coming to have a boombox, yeah,
and oh man, it's just the drums on that. Like
I heard it from across the school yard and it
kind of sucked me in like a like a vortex,
you know, I'm like, what is that? So anyway, it

(10:01):
wasn't long before I was like, you know, I want
to make this music. I don't want to just listen
to it, like I want to do it. And this
started around like twelve or thirteen.

Speaker 1 (10:08):
I was gonna say, at that young age, you kind
of already had that idea that not only do I
want to just hear it, maybe hear more of it.
I actually want to get involved. It'd be part yes, yeah,
that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Absolutely, And and you know, back then I thought I
wanted to be an MC, which is hilarious because my
voice still my voice today wouldn't.

Speaker 1 (10:26):
Be cracking yet, right, I mean, did you have puberty yet?
Do you have a voice?

Speaker 2 (10:31):
Not? At that point, no, man, And I had a
big old retainer in my mouth, which made me you know,
so man, it was a nightmare.

Speaker 1 (10:39):
But uh, retainer MC. You know you've been the first of.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Its kind, right, so, so you know, I was like
I was interested in doing that. I I've always been
into writing as well, and so and I love poetry.
And what I was realizing very quickly is like, oh
my god, this is like poetry and drums together. It's
like two things I really gravitate towards. I started making

(11:04):
tracks only out of necessity. I was trying to do
the pause tape thing, but I wasn't so accurate with it,
and so like I would try to record, you know,
like a break all the way through for like three
minutes and loop it, and I was okay, but not great.
And when you're trying to wrap over something and the
tempo is like suddenly off and then back on it.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
It's hard.

Speaker 2 (11:23):
So it dawned to me, I'm like, hey, I gotta
start making my own stuff if I'm gonna like wrap.
And it was almost like a necessary evil, like, well,
I guess I got to make beats now.

Speaker 6 (11:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
It was like it wasn't like what I set out
to do. It was just kind of I had to
so little by little, and my parents were very supportive
and generous. You know, I had a drum set. You know,
I recorded like drums from the drum set into like
a cassette and then I would overdub my rhymes over that.
I had like a cassio sampling keyboard. And then as
soon as I heard the first run DMC album and

(11:53):
I heard Jay scratching rest in PGM STERJ, I knew
I wanted to do that too. So I started, like
a lot of people with like one turntable and it
wasn't a technique, so it was like this this old
belt drive like those.

Speaker 1 (12:10):
Especially if it like your parents wanted, they're probably like
you're wrecking you know, the turntable. We can't play, and
now it doesn't play right, because it's got the speeds
all off on it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:17):
Yeah, oh it was. It was awful. So you know,
I did the best. You know, I did the best
with what I had, like everybody else, you know. Little
by little though, I started enjoying the production side of it,
and I was like, oh cool, I get to make
a beat. And and by then, like I had money
saved up, and I was able to get a drum
machine for the first time, and I was able to
get like a multi track recorder and a decent microphone,

(12:42):
and I'm like, you know what, I'm starting to kind
of dig this, like music studio in my basement kind
of thing. This is cool. So eventually, like I had
connected with some people in high school, met a really
good friend and we actually uh got taken to New
York to cut a demo at a studio.

Speaker 1 (12:57):
What age are you at this point, by the way,
start off like thirteen years old something like that, or yeah, yeah,
I would say I'm like sixteen seventeen, A few years
under your belt, a few years yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
The retainer is gone, but the braces are on.

Speaker 1 (13:13):
Right there.

Speaker 2 (13:14):
It is, oh yeah, you know, baby steps. So anyway,
we went there and we recorded three songs, and we
had a manager and everything, man, and like they shopped
our tape around and we got like a bunch of
Deer John letters from like Death Jam, Tommy Boy Island Records,
Profile like Fresh and Sleeping Bag Records, like our our heroes,

(13:34):
Like all the stuff that we're listening to is like nah,
Fourth and Broadway did one is like nobody wanted us,
you know. So it was a little uh, I gotta say, man,
it like it's stung a bit.

Speaker 3 (13:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
Yeah, And this this vision I had in my head
of doing this was I was like, oh, I guess
this isn't gonna happen, like okay. So anyway, we continued
for a little while and uh, and then I ended
up just like we kind of went in our own ways.
I went off to college and I was still making
music myself, and I don't know, man, it just kind
of hit me one day. I'm like, I don't think
like this is meant for me like I thought it was.

(14:08):
But I don't think like this is in the cards,
And I'm just gonna get into some other stuff. And
I got into like jungle and techno and all that,
and I wasn't interested in being like a known producer
in that genre. I just wanted to like make music
and have fun and DJ like parties and stuff, which
I did so around that time probably, I don't know,

(14:28):
it was like the mid nineties. I was also hearing
the sound of hip hop changing, and you know the
whole like sample crackdown on Biz and Day Last Soul,
and you know, just the heightened awareness of like, if
you sample, it's either going to cost a fortune or
you're gonna get in massive legal trouble. A lot of
artists weren't sampling so much anymore, if at all, and

(14:50):
I really loved the sound of samples, you know, and
and to me, that's the sound of hip hop exactly.
So yeah, so it started going away, and I was
I was relating the music less. You know. We got
into the Shiny Suit era, and we got in.

Speaker 1 (15:04):
God yeah, yeah, the puff Daddy yeah right, oh god
era right yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, dude, you got it. G funk was everywhere, and
you know, I respect the art form, but it just
wasn't for me. So anyway, I kind of got out
of it and I did a complete one eighty. I
knew I still want to make music, and I'm like
you know, I'm gonna get back into drums because that's
what I started with and I want to get back
into that. And I started playing drums and I got
into a variety of bands. None of it was hip hop,

(15:32):
none of it were funk beats. I was in like punk,
and uh there was like the swing like comeback at
the time with like Big Bad, Voodoo Daddy and all that.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
So I played ninety seven right whatever year that was
sometime around there. Yeah, yeah, Swingers came out. Yeah, Swingers.
Oh love that movie.

Speaker 2 (15:50):
So I was doing that stuff for a really long time,
and I was getting I was getting more proficient on
the drums, and I was forming my own bands, and
hip hop just wasn't something that was in my life.
But one day I was driving to a gig and
I'm like, I just need something to clear my head,
Like I don't want to hear the stuff that we're
about to play, Like I've heard that a million times.
I need like a refresher. And I was on Apple

(16:12):
Music and in my feet it said recommended for you
and it said return to the DJ Volume three. I'm like,
what's this? So I put it on and I heard
all these DJs cutting and scratching over like really dope
old school beats and everything, and then I realized it
was a whole series. And then I realized it had
been out for a long time and I completely like

(16:33):
missed it or whatever. And that was my last gig. Man.
I stopped drumming after.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
Ah wow, that was like you actually went and you
did go to the venue right and do that night,
and then that was okay. You didn't like call them
on the phone. I don't know if you had a
cell phone back then or not. Ay, I'm done, I'm out.

Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yeah, yeah, I just heard this compilation, so I'm not
coming right. No. I did the gig and everything, and
it was bittersweet, you know. And on the way home,
I immediately so as I got back to my car, put
it back on and I'm like, yeah, I want to
do this. So very shortly after I sold my I
had two drum sets. One was like a practice kit,
one was a gigging kit. I sold them both. I
got DJ equipment and I at the time, I'm like, Okay,

(17:13):
I'm going to get back into this, Like I can't
believe it's happening, but I think I'm gonna do djaying
I'm not going to do an MC thing. I'm not
going to produce. I'm gonna cut it up. So I
was doing that, and just like when I was a kid,
bro out of necessity, I'm like, well, I need beats
to cut over unless I'm just gonna like scratch on
other people's beats. But I want to, you know, I
want to record this. So I guess I need to

(17:34):
learn how to use like a digital audio workstation and
on a computer, and I need to cook up beats.
So I found myself once again necessary evil making beats,
making making tracks, and little by little I once again
got like hooked by the production aspect of it. And
so I'm kind of skipping ahead. But the music I'm

(17:55):
making now is there's there's less turntabilism in that and
it's more focused on production. And I think that's because
at this stage of my life, like this is what's
bringing me the most joy. And I feel like there's
a million DJs out there that no pun intended, could
spin circles around me. And I'm like, dude, like, you know,
if I'm not gonna if I'm just gonna be average,

(18:15):
even with a ton of practice and a ton of commitment,
like if I've hit my ceiling, I don't want that
going out on CDs and albums. I want like the
best that I can put out there, and for me,
that's that's production. So yeah, so kind of going back then,
I started putting some tapes together. It was instrumentals with
me cutting and scratching, and I got very blessed. I

(18:35):
met some dudes who live on the West Coast. They
call themselves an Outsider Syndicate and it's a Nordic One
is an MC, the IMF is an MC, and Limit
Break is an amazing producer in DJ, and there's more
of them, but those are the three main guys. We
were on this British label called the Get Down Records
and we kind of met through that and we started
wanting to collab together. So because of that connection, I

(19:00):
was able to put out the El Descense album Escape
the Yard with Nordic One because he asked me to
produce on it, and so that was my first taste
of like working with someone who is like well known,
you know, and it.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
Was really Yeah, was one of those, you know, most
underrated dudes. He is one of the greats man salute
for that's pretty cool to work with him on that,
your first like real rite, your first real production.

Speaker 2 (19:23):
Yeah yeah, yeah, thank you bro. Yeah, it was it
was really exciting. It was I was nervous the whole
time because you know, I had imposter syndrome. I'm like,
I have not done this for like twenty twenty five years,
and here I am coming back and like I'm rusty
on everything, and I'm like, all right, here we go.
You know, like I hope he likes it. You know,
I hope it's good enough. And it was. It was
a little nerve wracking, but you know, once I pushed

(19:44):
through that and you know, we're getting good feedback, it
was good. That led to my stuff getting to Flatline,
who runs Hip Hop God's radio, and he's just an
amazing human being, super nice guy, knows hip hop inside
and out. He's a real and he made the connect
with me to see Doc and that's how I got
connected with Fitzlam and then from there it was just

(20:06):
kind of like a snowball thing, like I got to
work with Cool g Wrap and I got to work
with Chuck and got to work with Chill Rob G
and as well as like all the dope artists on
spit slam you know itself. You know it's funny, bro.
It's like it was like a childhood dream that got
interrupted but didn't didn't stop. Like I was able to
pick it up, and you know, what I wanted to
do at age nineteen was actually happening like in my

(20:27):
late forties, and I'm just blessed to be here. So
so crazy.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
It's like you're on a hip hop train. You got
off before you wanted to, and then you try to
do different modes of transportation. You ended up back on
the train, and now you ain't looking back at all,
You're staying on it. There's so much there that I
want to touch on. So back in you know, your
early days and all of us who because I'm fifty
so I grew up in that era too. You know,

(20:51):
we all wanted to be a rapper. I mean, nobody
wanted to make beats. What wants to make beets? So
that's pretty cool that you were like, Okay, I could
try Ryan, I could try DJing, I could try beats.
You're trying to do all of it and trying to
figure out your lane, where most of us are like,
I'm not good at this wrapping thing. So I'm done,
I'm tapping out. I'm just gonna be a fan or something. Right, So,

(21:12):
because nobody's know, who's what twelve year old is trying
to make beats? I mean nobody is.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
Yeah, well you know, it's bringing it back to that
nerd word, right, you know, and like, yeah, yeah, I
was always that I am. When I talk to someone
like you, who like we've got a lot in common,
I can really open up. But in general, I'm very
introverted and I'm a I'm a back of the house
kind of guy. And I think that's why I liked
playing drums. It's in the back of the you know,
band producing. You're in the studio, but you don't go

(21:40):
on tour. You let the you know, you let the
MC's go do that. So I think that's why it
appealed to me. It's like, man, I can make all
these sounds, but like I can do it like in
private and like no one's gonna be watching me, and
then like I can put it out there and everybody
will be like, oh man, dope beats. You know. So
like I related to that aspect a lot.

Speaker 1 (21:57):
Man, I feel you on all of that because I
have it's kind of the same idea that you know.
I always I knew I wasn't good at rapping, so
I never really got that serious at all with it,
but I always you know, you brought up jam Master
J and I remember I just as a kid, I
would go on the turntables and try to do like
Darryl and Joe, like his part at the end of that,
which is one of my favorite run DEEMC songs ever made.

(22:18):
And I would look at that like, man, I wish
I could do that, and I'm not. They're very good
at it, So, you know, whatever, where am I going
with this? So then eventually you get to a point
where it's like, well, what can I do? How can
I be involved? And I like being in the background
as well, so that's why I went, you know, worked
in radio and in the DJ aspect of it too.
It's like you're in the background. You're important, you're part
of the show, like you said, like a drummer or something,
but you're not in the front. You're not the front man,

(22:40):
you're not all the weight's not on you. So this podcast,
I do it audio for a reason. I don't want
all the video and stuff. I don't care. I know
most people do it that way, but I don't. I
just want to put out material hopefully people listen to
it and you know, move along. So I totally relies
everything you just said with that.

Speaker 2 (22:57):
Oh man, that's awesome. And yeah, I I totally appreciate
the audio only thing too, because you know, I think
that that's a lot of start form and like, yeah, man,
I think being able to do things while you're listening
is really cool because you absorb information a different way
than if you're like glued to a screen or whatever.
So I think this is really really cool.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
And even when I listened to something on it, or
I guess watch on YouTube, like you know, somebody else's
like podcasts or something and they have visuals, I'm really
not looking at it. I just have that out of
the background. I'm doing the exact same thing. It's just
there's the option to look at somebody talking in a
you know, a zoom call thing, but I don't. It's
not I don't need it, but I know that's the
world we live in, and people like it that way. Also,

(23:35):
you know, talking about this probably helps your production, I guess,
because you've you moved on from you know, doing traditional
hip hop stuff to like you know, like I said,
you're in a band and all that stuff. Did that
kind of help mold your style because you're you're learning
how to play instruments and you're adding all these other
elements and you know, organically becoming probably to produce you
are today as opposed to like the producer you would
have been in like nineteen ninety before you were like

(23:55):
doing this, you know, instrumentation stuff or any kind of
other genre of music.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Yeah, that's a great question. I think being a producer,
it's definitely very helpful if you are diverse in your
the music that you listen to, the instruments that you
try and everything. I am definitely not one of those
people that's like a maestro and can play like guitar
and then I can play bass and then you know,
hey for me up, but soon I'll play that too,

(24:20):
Like I get do that.

Speaker 1 (24:21):
You know, where's a flute? I'm like Andre three thousand,
I'm a flute guy now on a sudden y Yeah right,
you can. You're not a jack of all trades at
all instruments, I gotcha.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Yeah, but pulling from like different different sources and inspirations
I think is cool. And one of the examples I
can give you is I grew up in my house
with my dad playing fifties and sixties music like pre
British Invasion, like black rock and roll, which is really
rhythm and blues, do wop and you know, some instrumental surf,
and then there was swing music and everything, and I

(24:52):
was just like a sponge listening to all that, and
so that was like a big part of me, and
I ended up drawing on that for one of the
Filmost Chill Beats on on I'm I did a Uh,
there's a little there's a little section where you may
or may not hear Fats Domino drums like kick in
for a little bit and then and then go out.

Speaker 1 (25:10):
Man, I think I missed it. What song was it?
Do you know that? What's the track name of it?

Speaker 2 (25:14):
Uh? It is a speed equation. It's the remix for
speed Equations.

Speaker 1 (25:18):
Okay, everybody listening, you go check out Philmost Chill to
I'm volume one and two. Look for that track and
keep your ears open for Fat's Domino.

Speaker 2 (25:26):
There you go, right, and it's like such a weird source, right,
Like you wouldn't think that that would work with hip hop,
but it does. And I think being able to draw
on our influences and what gets us excited and what
motivates us is really helpful as a producer because otherwise,
you know, everything kind of is like a one trick
pony kind of sound and it might be great, but
eventually people are gonna be like, Okay, I know what

(25:47):
I'm gonna get from that guy, Like can he do
anything else?

Speaker 1 (25:50):
So yeah, And I wanted to go back when you
said you were sending out like demos or whatever to
all these record labels. What was the name of the
crew and how many of you were in that crew? Like,
what was the what was the demo's like? Like what
was on there? Was like a couple of songs were
you rhyming on or were you just doing a production?

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Like?

Speaker 1 (26:04):
What was more of the detail behind those? Oh man,
it's cringing. Are you afraid to even talk about it yet?

Speaker 2 (26:11):
No? No, I cringe, But I've got a big smile
on my face right now, because you know, it's just funny, man,
Like you look back on things with hindsight and wisdom
and it's like, oh man, that was just like at
the time I thought that was like, you know, I
thought that was it. We made it. You know, it's
like funny to answer your question. The group was good.
It was a duo and we call ourselves back and forth,

(26:32):
and it was because of our rhyme flows like I
would start, he would like jump in yeah, very much
like run DMC and Beastie Boys. You know. That was
the cadence. And I was the producer and also the DJ.
So what we would do is is like I would
record us in my house and then I would make
backing tracks and we would take our tapes with us

(26:54):
to like school dances and stuff like that, and we
would try to get into it DJ and ask if
he would let us just like do a song like
or something like that. And uh. Then we started doing
talent shows and and then we like we started doing
some shows at like like venues or whatever. Very small,
but we were doing shows at venues and the only
other people in the crew would be for live performances.

(27:16):
We had dancers because you know, back then it was
like scoob and scrap, right, so we gotta have them, which,
by the way, I really miss I really miss dancing
and hip hop. I don't know when that became not
cool to do.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
But I mean it's a great I mean it just
like DJs, you know, became a thing that wasn't on
the stage anymore either. And yeah, man, I don't when
did that stop. I guess during the mid nineties, right
when uh yeah, the West Coast stuff really started taking over.
You never saw a dancer, you know, when Dre was
on stage, So I don't know when that would have Yeah,
that's probably right when it's well, puff Daddy started dancing.
This is his name twice. It's enough of him, you know,

(27:51):
he's he was doing a lot of dancing, but it
wasn't the kind of dancing that you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (27:55):
No, No, you know, it wasn't. And it's so crazy
to me. I know, I'm going off the little tangent here,
but like hip hop, like b boying and be girling
like that is a that is one of the major
foundations of hip hop. It's a huge pillar in it.
And to think that we've gotten so far away from
that where like, you know, people don't even really dance anymore.
It's it's interesting to me now if you go to

(28:17):
other countries like Japan, is still like the break dancing
over there. Incredible.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
Yeah, the whole culture. I mean it's not and it's
the whole thing, right, I mean all the elements. You
could see these other countries they embrace it fully.

Speaker 2 (28:29):
Yeah yeah, so it's so ironic that we don't anymore.
And I don't know why that happened or whatever. But anyway,
and that's not anyone who's listening. If you're a dancer,
like man, God bless you keep going because we need
more of you. So I love it. But anyway, so
going back, we didn't quite know what to do on
this demo. We were listening to hardcore, we were listening
to the g wrap iced Tea, the doc like that

(28:52):
was our that's what we liked, right, But the management
saw like a marketing opportunity for two white kids to be.

Speaker 1 (29:00):
Yeah yeah, I know where this is going.

Speaker 3 (29:02):
Uh huh.

Speaker 1 (29:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:03):
So it's like, okay, now we're trying to be like
we're trying to be you know, more like street and
and make the music that like inspires us, that we
feel is real. And they're like, well, you know, we
can make a compromise and like you know, if we
add this to the song or we take this out
or we make the drums just a little bit softer,
like we think it'll have more appeal. And like, you

(29:23):
guys want to have appeal, right, you want to make money, right,
And and we're like.

Speaker 1 (29:27):
Well, yeah, yeah we do, yes and no, it depends
on what you mean by appeal. It's like how much yeah, yeah,
how much of my soul am I selling?

Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh yeah, we pretty much, dude, we didn't know. We
just didn't know, man, And like we were in this
weird phase too, at least for me, where I couldn't
quite tell where the sound of hip hop was going.
Because and I'll give you an example, like run DMC
came out with Back from Hell the album, and that
was very different from anything they had put out before. Yeah,

(29:56):
like the Back from Hell song itself, I love, but
you're talking about faces and pause, they're doing new Jack swing.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
I was gonna say I had a new Jack Teddy
Riley kind of feel to it. I remember they were
cursing more than they ever have. But don't get it twisted.
I love that record. I know some people don't like
it as much, but I loved it. But yeah, you're right,
does sound it was just very flat, not flashy, not
the right word. But new Jack is definitely that style
of that An ninety one yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:24):
Yeah, yeah, And that's when we were cutting our demo
and like I like that album too. I love Run
dmc man. So it's like there's nothing they can put
out as bad in my ears.

Speaker 1 (30:33):
Well, Crown Royal I'll object to a little bit, but
I don't. It's okay. Crown Royal is like a phantom
menace of overrun DeepC to me. It's like I don't
really acknowledge it.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
It's like, yeah, yeah, we'll pretend Down with the King
was the last album there.

Speaker 1 (30:46):
You go, right, right man.

Speaker 2 (30:48):
Yeah. But I think because we were kind of like
seeing things change like we were we were we were
still loving the like the Dude. We were still loving
like the Big Daddy Kane Raw era, and we were like,
you know, we thought like DApp or dance suits were
cool and we liked all this stuff, and like that
was going away and like we were starting to hear

(31:09):
like it's like people quite didn't know it was like
this weird era. It was like a transition era, at
least in my ear, from where we were to where
things kind of went into the nineties and became like
more boom back there was definitely dope stuff put out then,
but I think I was confused. I was worried that
we were going to sound outdated, and I think the
our management was like thinking, oh, you know, I don't

(31:30):
know how to market these guys. There's already a third base,
Like what do I do with these guys? I need
to make them more poppy. So rightfully, so, we got
rejected by all the hip hop labels, and you know,
it was disappointing back then, But when I look back
on it, I'm like, I totally understand why you know so.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Right right well, I mean I was you guys are
doing something right where you thought, okay, let's put out
a demo, let's let's shop at these labels. You guys
are onto something. It was just the timing with the
way the music. I mean, we all know hip hop
music changes, you know daily, everything's changed, and then they
go back to the old style before you can, you know,
throw that old style away. So like for you guys,
you guys are ready to move on and do the

(32:08):
do this thing, and then the music's change. Sea Dog
brought up too. I never thought of the chronic as
the album that kind of shifted things, you know, however
you want to put it, not for better or worse,
I don't. I don't want to get into that part
of it. But yeah, the sound. But after the Chronic,
you didn't hear stuff like Big Daddy Kane Raw anymore.
After that, there's the underground scene and the independen scene
that was always there, but yeah, everything was more bigger,

(32:30):
and yeah, it was just different. It was just and
of course it was a gangster element and all that stuff, but.

Speaker 2 (32:34):
Yeah, man, and like, I feel like the heartbeat of
hip hop slowed down at that point, Like everything got
a lot slower, and you know, they're rapping about weeds,
so you know, people are probably smoking weed and they're
you know, they're slowing down too. It's like, you know,
we're not getting hype anymore. We're like we're chilling now.
And I and I get it, but I miss I
missed early Dre, I missed Doc Dre, n w A Dre.

(32:56):
I love all that stuff, you know, but then you know,
things slowed down, okay, you know, and like, but we
had some dope stuff like Pete Rock came out, Wu
Tang came out, like there's a bunch of stuff that
came out.

Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yeah, man, that nineties, mid mid nineties era, there's a
lot of stuff that definitely was there.

Speaker 2 (33:11):
You're right for sure for sure. So like it wasn't
like a I don't want to use the word loss.
I was gonna say, it's not like a total loss
when Chronic came out, But I you know, I think
some of it that came out after that was really dope,
and I'm glad that like it went that direction. And
at the same time, I miss where things were before
that and wish we could have held onto that just
a little bit longer.

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Yeah, And like I said, you know, it was there
in pockets, but yeah, it wasn't in the forefront anymore.
Hip hop wasn't about an MC and DJ and breaking
in the you know, that definitely is an element of
the sound that was before it. But yeah, you're right.
Once those records are coming out, that's what these labels
are looking for. They want what's the next Chronic, what's
the next Warren G, what's the next Yeah? Whatever? And

(33:53):
I love I have those albums. I'm definitely not saying
anything negative about them. It's just yeah, but they were
looking for something else. And then of course that guy
came out around dancing on you know, all open the video,
and then things really changed and sampling came back, and
like the sampling was like more obvious, like, hey, that's
that's a David Bowie sample. That's pretty helpuous. So you're sample.
You'ren't even trying to hide it anymore. You're paying a

(34:13):
lot of money for these samples. These are humongous samples.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Yeah, that's a really good point some way. But like, yeah,
it was just like in your face and it was
just like looped and it was like you couldn't you
could not tell it was a sample.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
Right, Oh that's the police. You just reworked it and
you've got stings standing there. Okay, all right, so you
really the sampling is like in the whole different era.
Now you got to have lots of money to get
you know, Robert Plant or whatever, Jimmy Page on your song.
I'm talking a lot about that one guy for some reason,
because I feel like he's the one who kind of
shifted things after Biggie and Pop, you know, murdered, the
music in the genre just really shifted to this whole

(34:51):
like shiny suits era big, giant samples that were easy
to recognize, and it was very different.

Speaker 2 (34:57):
Man.

Speaker 1 (34:58):
Yeah, like you I myself, what kind of like let
me play some old Jay's Brown records or let me
dive in is ks or something. I started like going
backwards and said, listen to what was on the radio.

Speaker 2 (35:08):
Yeah. Well, and you know, we won't say his name.
He should not be named. I won't say his name.
But like, uh, what I I read? I read an article.
It was very interesting. So and this is kind of
why I heard Drey made the chronic He was tired
of the violence and and the whole like gang perspective,

(35:28):
like things were just getting so frenetic that he's like,
you know what, I want to make something that still
has like you know, an ear to the street and
has some tracks on it that are definitely gangster at
but I also want to like I want to chill
a little bit, and so like he slowed the tempo
down and everything and got he got Snoop and his
whole thing. I had also heard that when Poc and
Diggie died, a lot of the industry was like, Okay,

(35:49):
enough of this stuff, Like we got to stop talking
about like you know, shooting each other and all this
stuff like let's just party, let's just like, let's go
back to having a good time. And I appreciate that,
but I didn't like the music that like they went with,
Like you know, I like having a good time too,
and like back in the day, it was kidding play,
it was Steezo, it was fresh Prince. What it turned

(36:09):
into was not my thing, you know, so.

Speaker 1 (36:12):
At at least what's on the radio was definitely not it,
you know, Yeah, I mean I didn't as you know,
I wasn't listening to a lot of that stuff. But
I still found myself. You know, there's Common and Tribe
and Dayla Soul was still relevant. You know, there's a
lot of groups that were still doing things, but it
was a totally different sound. It was almost like commercial
versus like the real And that's like when the real
hip hop idea started really coming into play, because I mean,

(36:34):
for me, when someone would ask me what I listened to,
I did to be like there'd be like a disclaimer, Okay,
it's not what you hear in the ra I guess
it's still today, but nobody listens to radio anymore. But
the disclaimer, like not what you hear in the radio.
I'm not listening to master P, you know, that's what
you think hip hop is. I'm listening to you know,
this Pete Rock and Seal Smooth album that you've never
heard of, or this gang Star record that you you know,
forgot that they still make records, you know, whatever name

(36:56):
you're you know, late nineties, Mob Deep, you know, something
like that.

Speaker 2 (36:58):
Yeah. Absolutely, I was the same way. And I think,
like you know, I mentioned, I kind of got out,
I stopped listening. I think the last album I bought
before I got back into stuff was The Score by
the Fujis, which is a tremendous.

Speaker 1 (37:13):
Ninety seven ninety eight. That's that timeline we're talking about.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I loved it. To me, it sounded
like a breath of fresh air. I'm like, Okay, this
has got like the elements of hip hop that I remember,
like sonically, what they're doing with their vocals, how they're
you know, how Lauren Hill is like featured, but not
like they didn't make it over poppy like Black Eyed Peas,
you know, and some songs and stuff with having singing

(37:35):
and everything. I thought it was genius And I'm not
doing some black Eyed Peas by any means.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
But that's what I'll say about Black Eyed Peas before
before you move on here. I loved their first album,
oh yeah, and I actually went to go see them
a concert and mystic open form was like it was
a great show. And then like all of a sudden,
there was this new singer that was part of the group,
and I was like I heard the music and I
was like, I don't know what this is, but this
is not the Black Eyed Peas. Yeah album, the joints

(37:59):
and jam group that I liked, you know, three years ago.
I don't know what this is. They're not from me anymore. Okay,
uh moving on from Black Eyed Peas.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Yeah, it like breaks your heart too, because you're like,
oh man, you guys were so great and like I
love the direction you're going, and it's like what happened?
Like why are we doing this now? Like what happened?

Speaker 6 (38:18):
You know?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
So yeah, yeah, that's that's rough, But you know, big
ups to them. You know, they did their thing, and
like I you know, I think probably a lot of
people who may not have even considered listening to hip
hop or rap or whatever, yes maybe got turned on
by what they heard. From Black Eyed Peas on the radio,
and it was like an entry sore.

Speaker 1 (38:37):
Because I remember the first time I heard was It's
called Ella Funkle. Was that the album that got really
huge for them?

Speaker 2 (38:43):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (38:43):
I remember this dude I worked with who does not
like the music. I probably I don't think he even
likes I know, I think he's racist. Oh no, that
kind of thing. So I remember he's like, hey, you
like to do Black Eyed Peas? Like, why do you
know about it? And why are you asking me about it?

Speaker 2 (38:58):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (38:58):
Because I'm the white hip hop guy that you work with,
and you want to know, you know, is it cool
that you like this? Am I approving it? I'm telling
you it sucks because it sounds like commercial stuff and
the first album was much better than this. Sorry about
the tangent.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
It makes sense, man, that's awesome.

Speaker 6 (39:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
No, man, there's a I think everybody, uh, you know,
depending where you're from, where you grow up, there's always
like that one person who tries to you know. I
remember in college some guys like, hey, man, do you
do you like you know? Kid rock? I'm like, I
don't know, and it is like ninety seven. This is
not like the current guy who I definitely don't like.
But like back then, he's like, man, you like, no,
I listened to like rock him still in NOAs. I'm like,

(39:40):
I don't know what. I don't listen to that. Sorry,
He's like he was all disappointed.

Speaker 2 (39:44):
Yeah, take this poison, go home. You know.

Speaker 1 (39:48):
Yeah, he's like, oh I thought it was being cool
with you. Like it's not working, dude, dig deeper. That
is definitely not it. You got to find something better
than that.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
I know, I know, And it's it's interesting to me
how for a lot of people that's their entry point
into into this culture and the art form, and it's
like it's so not it. It's like, no, man, if
you really knew like what this is about and the
stuff you should be listening to, like, it would blow
your mind, you know. And some people I was able
to look convinced, like, oh you should check out you know,

(40:20):
da da da. I never heard of that person. Well
you know it's awesome, you know, trust me. Sometimes they
would like it, and sometimes they'd be like, nah, this
I like the more mainstream stuff, and it's like okay,
well we tried.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah. I had that same conversation with cool Kim A
couple of years ago, because I was telling him about how, like,
you know, I would be into like all this stuff,
and you know, I was just surprised at the people
around me who say they liked the music, which is
really just I like the Chronic or I just like
Snoop Dogg or whatever, which I also like, don't get
it twisted, but you know, I'd be like, well, you guys,

(40:53):
do you guys like Cypress Hill or oh you don't
like them because they smoke weed or whatever? You don't
like the music? Okay? Do you like a gang star?
I mean trying to groups. Did you like Lord Finesse Is? No,
you don't care, do you? Okay? Right, you only like
what's on MTV at the moment, and then next year
whatever else is on, you'll you'll move on, Okay, I
got it?

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Yeah, yeah, man, I yeah, it's amazing to me. There
are there are people, you know, including someone who's very
close to me who you know, I will not I
will not say her name, but it's like whatever's on
the radio is what she listens to, and she's totally
fine with that and she enjoys it and like that's it,
and that's cool for them.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
That is awesome. Yeah, I have no no, no, no
problem with that.

Speaker 3 (41:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Absolutely, But to me and one of my sons especially,
like we're like really like this is come on, like
dig deeper, come on, there's so much better stuff out there,
like deeper. So yeah, but you know it's funny, man.
It's like every other art form. It's completely subjective and
not objective, and something that someone loves is like trash

(41:57):
to somebody else, and it's just there's there's accounting for it,
you know. Is one plus one doesn't equal to all
the time.

Speaker 1 (42:03):
No, man, And that's why that's why hip hop has
all these pockets. You got the backpackers and you got
you know, these this group here, and you know sometimes
they kind of coexist, but sometimes they don't. It's like
you know, the gatekeepers right as they say, there's all that,
all that going on with it. And you know the
bottom line is, I'm just glad that you know you
found your way. You know that that Apple Music suggestion
or whatever it was when you're in the car that

(42:24):
day found you and now here you are twenty twenty
five putting out records. Man and man. Just Sea Dot
told a great story about how he was working on
Chuck D's Armageddon album and he needed you to deconstruct
it and then rebuild it. Talk about just the idea
of like, I don't know, there's like so many layers
of that. For one, like he's handing you this song
or music or you know tracks right and he's like, hey,

(42:46):
I did these, but I can't put them out like this.
I got to take them to another level and you're
getting them. What was your first reaction to, like, Man,
how am I gonna change this? Or how do I
do this to make cause you it's it's for Chuck D.
It's not for yourself. It's you know what I mean,
It's it's Chuck D. Man. It's like this is important
to get this right, you know.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Oh yeah, man, oh, that's a great question. By the way,
I consider Sea Doc a really good friend. Like he's
in the Pittsburgh area, you know, I'm in the Illinois area.
Unfortunately we can't just like hang out on weekends or whatever.
But yeah, but I really consider him a close friend.
He's he's just such a good guy. I'm also a fan,
Like I know the music that he puts out, and

(43:26):
I'm I'm a big fan of it, and so when
he handed me one of his tracks and he's like, yeah,
I'm not quick. I don't feel like I can like
take this further in the state that it's in, Like
can you deconstruct it? And can you kind of do
what you did on a rape to the rhythm? And
then is it okay to swear on your show? By
the way, Oh yeah, yeah, go ahead. You could say
say the words you want. This will be the only

(43:48):
thing is it's Slanders is going to be the new name.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Of the show.

Speaker 2 (43:53):
But my favorite he put my mind at ease. He
goes He's like, I want you to do some DJ shit,
and that just cracked me up. I'm like, I see,
I understand where he's coming from. Like I get it,
Like I totally get it at that point. So the
imposter syndrome was there again because I'm like, it's Chuck,
it's Sea Doc. It's like, oh my god, you know,
and here we go. What you know, what could I
possibly do to you know, make this song any better

(44:15):
than Sea Doc already has it? You know, I don't know,
And I really, dude, I had to like just leave
it for a little bit. I had to like not
touch it. And I need to just like kind of
like live life for like a day or two and
just know that it was there, but not jump into it.
And I finally had to, like I had to distance
myself enough from it where I was like, Okay, Sea
Doc didn't make this, This isn't going to enemy radio.

(44:38):
This is just a track. Someone sent you a track,
and now you're going to go in and do what
you would do with the track, you know, and like
that's it. That's the mission. And I literally had to
like get it that narrow focus because any emotional implication
of screwing up one of my closest friends tracks and
you know, having Chuck d not like it, or having
you know, spit slam not like it or whatever, it

(44:59):
was overwhelming and my head went there immediately. So I
had to just like disconnect and just kind of get
back to the mission and just do my thing. And
I was very cautious. I did it with kit Gloves
to begin, and I sent it to Sea Doc and
he really liked where it was going, but he's like,
you can do more. He's like, in fact, give me more.
So I'm like, okay, like ye, all right, let's do it.

(45:19):
So it was kind of like, you know, easing my
way into the pool instead of just jumping at the
at the deep end, I'm like, can I go to step?
Can I go over here? Okay? All right? Cool? So
it was like that, and then after that, like sea
Doc sent me another one and then another one, and
he was great man, Like there was no pressure, there
was no overwhelming you know, it was like, I'm gonna

(45:39):
give this to you piecemeal. Just have fun, do what
you want with it, do your thing. I wouldn't ask
you if I didn't, you know, like what you do,
you know, and there's a lot of encouragement and it
really helped. So basically what I contributed contributed to that album.
I like to say that, like we're like Batman and Robin.
He is absolutely Batman on that album. He did the
Lion's share of the and you know he he he

(46:02):
was the mastermind behind that. But you know I was
his like I was his helpful sidekick, you know on
some of the tracks, and I was able to kind
of go in and do things that maybe he wouldn't
have done on his own. And it's no like detriment
to him. It's just that, you know, he he was
in it for so long, I think, you know, it
was kind of like just needed someone to kind of
come in with some fresh perspective and change things up.

(46:23):
So that's what I did. But it was an honor.
I loved it. He would tell me how Chuck what
Chuck thought about the songs, and you know, Chuck mentioned
a couple of things that I had contributed that he
really loved, and it made me feel good. And as
I was hearing that, I'm like, Okay, like I can
do this, Like I'm worthy of doing this. I guess
we can continue. Like this is cool, so go man. Yeah,
that was the process.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Yeah, and you know, going back to you know, the
beginning of you know, talking to you here, like the
just the timeline of things and to think that you know,
you put hip hop away for a while and then
came back to it and then to get to this
point obviously made the right choice. Like I don't know,
you probably never had it. I'm just probably points in
time where like doubting, like man that I really should
I go back to that group or another band, or
should I go back to doing this or that? Or
you know absolutely, and you're you get here and you're

(47:06):
like Okay, this is exactly the laying the path whatever.
I chose the right way. And I think it's pretty
cool just because I brought this up to Sea Doc
that Chuck just believed in you guys to do this
and he's not, you know, overbearing and overwhelming you with
like you know input, like trust you. You guys are
artists just like he is. And you guys put together
something and man, this album is nuts. I love it.

(47:29):
And I think that's the point of it, right. He
wanted something that had like left turns and craziness, and
I think that's what the album is. It's it's like
organized chaos or something.

Speaker 2 (47:38):
It's great. Oh man, well they I think organized Chaos
is probably like the the awesomest compliment we could get. Yeah,
you know, like Chuck is a very humble, nice man.
Like if you ever speak with Chuck, like he's just
a really nice guy. And you know that was I

(47:58):
think that was another reason where it was almost like
hard for me, Like, man, I don't want to like
break this guy's heart, Like he's giving us all this
trust and like what if we let him down? Like
you know, like this is Chuck, you know, and like
he worked with the Bomb Squad and like the Bomb
Squad are my heroes, and like, you know, like I
don't want to like be a pale comparison to the
Bomb Squad or whatever. So there was a lot of

(48:19):
that going through my head. And it was like the
music fan fighting the producer in me, and it was like,
you can't do this. No, No, I can't, No, you
really can't. You know.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
But right it's like you got the two guys on
your shoulder or whatever, like you can really make this. No,
you're gonna screw it up and rock you can't do this.
You're not supposed to be even in you know, the
discussion of working on a Chuck Dey project? What are
you doing?

Speaker 2 (48:38):
Absolutely? Absolutely? Oh man, those exact words went through my head,
to be honest.

Speaker 1 (48:43):
Yeah, And you know what, that's good, right to have
a little bit of doubt and scariness and all that,
because it probably pushed you to a limit. Maybe you
didn't know that you had or you had it, but
you just needed a little extra and you man, you
guys got there. And is this the first time you
did something for Chuckdy? This this project, the armor getting
now for him?

Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yes, I was lucky enough to have a feature with
him on the Tower Babylon album. Okay, there's a track
called war Machine. Once again, big shout out to the
Outsider Syndicate because Nordic One is the main MC on
that album, and we had a bunch of features. We
got to work with our heroes. It was incredible. And
one of those people's Chuck, and he rapped on one

(49:24):
of the tracks, and hearing that was crazy. It was like,
oh my god, like Chuck is rapping on my track,
Like this is insane.

Speaker 1 (49:31):
That's a nuts man.

Speaker 2 (49:33):
Yeah, I was like, oh my god, is this happening
right now? And you know, once again, kind of bringing
it back to when I was a kid, Like my
walls were lined with hip hop posters and it was
you know, it was Public Enemy, it was run DMC,
it was LL, it was Eric Dean Rock him and
I desperately wanted to work with these guys, like I
wanted to produce them. So as soon as Like It
came back and I heard his vocals on the track,

(49:54):
I immediately I was back in my room again. I
was I could imagine the poster that I had and
I'm like, dude, you did it, Like what the hell?
How did you get away with this? This cran?

Speaker 1 (50:05):
What that album? Is it available? Can people find this
track and the album it's on? Is it on like
band camp or anything?

Speaker 2 (50:10):
Oh yeah, yeah, so Tower Babylon is out on all
streaming platforms. It is. It was put out by Spitslam.
I believe it was twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three
somewhere around there. And uh man, we got Dan Lish
to do the cover art. He just is insane. He
does a lot of hip hop oriented like hand drawings

(50:31):
and stuff like that. But if you guys like that,
like late eighties early nineties sound, that's the entire album.
It's it's up tempo for the most part. We got
master Ace, we got Craigg, we got cool g Wraps,
So like a big part of the Juice Crew is yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:46):
Chilling all over it.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Yeah yeah, hell yeah man. We got Chuck, we got
filmost chill and that's how we met, which was great.
We got Al Descense is back gift of gab Resc
and he's on there too, that's crazy. Yeah yeah. And
Donald D from the b Boys, you know, and and
Rhyme Syndicate And if I'm forgetting anybody, I apologize. But

(51:08):
in addition to that, we got like a lot of
heavy hitters from Spit Slam and the Outsider Syndicate. So
and Lavender is on there and she's on my upcoming
album too, So if you like, you know variety, I
think people are gonna dig this album and uh, I
just hope people check it out and love it. But yeah,
I'm really proud of that one. That was. That was
a good one.

Speaker 1 (51:27):
I was just saying, gift to Gab. He had passed
by the time that was released, then, right, if I'm
getting my years correct and Trintik, what year the gift
of Gab pass?

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Yeah? Correct? Okay, yeah, yeah, And that was that was
hard a little bit to work on that album because
or that song, because I was hearing his voice coming
out of my speakers and I'm like, oh, man, like
this is like his voice is continuing even though he's
not here in the physical and I need to make
sure that we do this right, you know, Like I

(51:56):
want to make sure that if someone listens to it
and they're a big gift to GAP fan, that they're like, Okay,
this is dope. You know, It's not like someone just
exploited you know, the lyrics or whatever. You know, I
didn't want that, so hopefully people feel like I did
him justice. But yeah, that was I definitely, I definitely
was in a different like mind space and energy when
I worked on his track because of the situation.

Speaker 1 (52:16):
Yeah, I can't even imagine, like that's like a whole
different thing, Like you know, you know we're talking about
working with Chuck and then the other side of the
spectrum is here's somebody respect and you know, you have
some vocals for and like, now he's not here. Man,
this is crazy. You're trying to work and of course
you can't bounce ideas off of him, Like, oh, what
do you think if I do this with the verse?
You'd say, Yeah, you're kind of like it's it's all you.
It's up to you to do justice by him. So salute.

(52:37):
I gotta go find that in here because I'm sure
you did.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Cool man, Well, thank you. Yeah, I hope you enjoy it.

Speaker 1 (52:42):
Yeah, man, And I wanted to bring up the latest
Public Enemy album, which is also on band camp. The
first track I saw that you produce. You co produced
it right with Sea Dot Sick. Yes, man, Yes, so
much going on in that there's like guitar in it,
and there's like it's really a good opening track for
that album. I feel like it really does set the
pace talk of your involvement with that song and just

(53:02):
knowing that right now, after doing the Chuck D stuff,
now you're doing this one or this song before he
worked on the Chuck D stuff or is it after?

Speaker 2 (53:08):
It was after? Yeah, it was after, and you know, see,
Doc you know, asked me if I'd like to work
on it. I'm like absolutely. I still had imposter syndrome
because you know, it is what it is, it's public enemy.
But I felt more comfortable and it was kind of like, okay,
you know, remember what we did on Enemy radio, Like
do that on this song? Like let's do that? So

(53:30):
sea Doc had sent me the track. It was dope
to begin with, it always is, and then I'm like, okay,
what can I do here to like what would what
would I add to this track? One of the things
is when it does go into the the thrash metal guitar,
I just think that, like, I don't know, man, there's
something about like hard guitar with hip hop beats and
maybe that's why I like run DMC so much. And

(53:51):
I love she watched Channel zero and I love when
like they teamed up with Anthrax for a little bit.
So I'm like, you know what, pe sounds good with
metal guitars, so let's have like interlude where we bring
in some metal guitars. So like that was that was
one of the things that I brought to the table
in that. And it's not the majority of the song
or whatever, but you know when it when it hits,
it goes hard. You know, you're like, whoa, you know,

(54:12):
and then it goes back into the song. So so
that was a lot of fun, man, And yeah, we
we just kind of did the same process together. I'm like,
is this okay? You know you want me to do more,
want me to pull back? You got it from here.
So seed Doc will we'll take the tracks that I
give him with my fingerprint on it, if you want
to call it that, and then he'll add even more

(54:32):
and like make it even more crazy. So it's kind
of like it comes to me, I make it crazy,
it goes to him, He makes it bananas, and then
like you know, it goes out to the world. It's
just a lot of fun. And you know, we were like,
you know what, man, like we make a really good team.
We read each other, we love the same kind of music.
It's almost like unspoken, like we just know. And he's like,

(54:54):
you know, we should like we should have a name
for us when we work together. And instead of saying
see Doc and Rock, like we should have like a name.
So so we're exploring.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Uh oh, you're still trying to figure it out now.
Uh you know what.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
We came up with, the Beat Raiders.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
Okay, oh I did see that on your Instagram.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
You're right, yeah, yeah, yeah, So we're the Beat Raiders
when we're together. So if you see that name, you know,
it's a sea Doc M Rock joint. And I feel
like this is just the beginning and we'll see where
this goes. But it's an honor to work with him.
He's just amazing.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
So Doc and Rock didn't make it, huh? Or was
that on the Was that on the board of like names?

Speaker 2 (55:28):
Doc and Rock would have been awesome? I don't know
what we were thinking. That's pretty cool. Actually it's only there.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
You go, it sounds like a wrestling tag team or something.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
But it does.

Speaker 1 (55:39):
Beat Raiders works because it's you know, it doesn't have
like a like a time stamp on. I feel like
you could have been that in the eighties you get
in twenty twenty five where doc and rock. Yeah, maybe
it does kind of sound like cartoonish. I don't know.

Speaker 2 (55:54):
I like it, man, I like it.

Speaker 1 (55:55):
Well, you guys could use it as like your AKA
or something or whatever. Yes, absolutely, hell yeah man. And
then you know, before I was talking to here, I
was playing Filmost Chills album I'm volume one and two,
and first I love the King of Rock cover by
the way, that's awesome and playing it yeah, okay, he's
behind all that's that's great, and I'm listening to It's like, man,

(56:16):
this album is really I think it's almost like it's
made for somebody like me because it has that old
feel to it, that old style a little bit, but
it sounds modern, so it doesn't feel like an old album,
even though it has all the elements I want. But
it sounds like something came out today. So I don't
know how you guys balanced it out like that. It
was It was great.

Speaker 2 (56:33):
Oh man, that that is music to my ears because
that's what I was going for. That's exactly what I
was hoping people would feel when they listened to the album.
That was an interesting album the way that that was,
Like I think we started on that like two years ago,
maybe even two and a half, and like what ended
up happening was I came to fill with a bunch
of beats and he liked like a small handful, but

(56:55):
the majority was like, h you know, I'm not really
feeling that one. I'll pass on this one whatever. And
I was like, oh, okay, this is like I'm not
used to this. Like usually people are like, oh yeah,
I'll rock with this, but he was more selective, and
I'm glad he was because it really pushed me to
come up with different things that I wouldn't have if
he had just settled on the first batch of beats.
And I'm so I'm glad. So we did beat y'all.

(57:18):
That was the first one, and that was like one
of the first beats that he accepted, and that's kind
of like that's the first track on Vuying one and
that's the music video and everything, and that one just
like worked really well. And then I kind of had
to go back to the drawing board and all the
others and I came up with more. He picked them,
he wrapped over him. He sent them back to me,

(57:39):
and when I heard what he did with them, I
was like, oh my god, my beats suck now, like
this guy like yeah, I'm like dude, I was like,
oh my god, you want to talk about imposter syndrome,
Like I cannot put this out, Like he put one
hundred and ten percent in it, and my beatsund like,
you know, thirty percent, forty percent? Like got I gotta

(57:59):
fix all this stuff. So what I did was I
remade them in very much what you hear on volume two,
and I sent those back to him and I'm like,
hey man, I'm not really feeling my initial set of beats.
What do you feel about these? And he's like, well,
these are really dope and I like these. He's like,
but I still like the first ones. And he's like,
you know, I don't know which ones we should pick

(58:21):
because I like them both. So we just decided, like,
you know what, let's put him out as like two
different volumes. They do have a different enough sound where
it doesn't sound like a half assed remix. It does
sound like a you know, a different song. And then
Phil took it upon himself to re record the lyrics
for volume two. So you know everything you hear on there.

(58:41):
It wasn't me taking his first lyrics and just plopping
him on a beat. Like he went back in the
booth and re recorded all his lyrics for these because
there were slight tempo changes, there were things where he
wanted to get more aggressive with you know, his growl
and stuff like that. He did that. He was like,
you know what, I'm going to change some of the
lyrics too, Like we might as well, you're changing up
the beat, I'm going to change the words. So he

(59:02):
did that too. So yeah, so we really came at
it from like a different like perspective. Once I had
all that, I now had volume one, I now had
Volume two. Now I was very much like what you
were just talking about. I'm like, Okay, this is great.
This sounds like an old school like my favorite era.
This this works like I think, you know, Phil's happy,
but I want to like, I want to change it up.

(59:24):
I want to make a little like I want to
bring in sense. I want to have like little interludes
where we go from breakbeats into drum machines, and I
want to make it a little more electronic in some areas,
just so it feels more fresh. So I did that,
and when I sent everything back to him, he absolutely
loved it. Like I don't think he knew I was
gonna do anything more with the tracks after he sent
like the remixes to me, but I did, and and

(59:47):
that's what you hear on the album. So that's volume
one and volume two.

Speaker 1 (59:50):
Man, and just the amount of work it takes just
to redo those those vocals like he did, and just
a commitment to like, all right, not only am I
going to redo the vocals because I don't want them
to sound stale, you know, twice I'm going to switch
up the lyrics a little bit, and you know, keen
listeners will catch the nuance between each one and notice
there's a difference. And it's not just like you said,
vocals slapped over different beats or whatever. This is a

(01:00:12):
lot more. It's not just remix this is That's pretty awesome, man,
to know more about the behind the scenes of that.
So everybody go get that album. It's on band camp.

Speaker 2 (01:00:19):
It's everywhere, right, yeah, yeah, it's everywhere. And if you're
interested in vinyl and you being you or anyone listening,
what's really cool is Spitslam has a connection where they
do made to order vinyl. So like if you want
the record and you can't find it in store, you
can order it through spit Slam and there is a

(01:00:41):
factory in England I believe that will make a record
just for you and send it to you and the
sound quality is fantastic. It's not going to be like
like a lathe or what I forget what you call them,
but it's like it's it's a real record, but it's
it's yours. It's like custom made just for you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:59):
So wow.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
Yeah, So if you're into that, you'll have to wait
a little bit because they got to make it from scratch,
but you know it'll be unique to yours, to you,
and that's how we're pressing those up. So from a
business angle, it's really good for the label because you know,
typically we would press up a bunch of vinyl or
make a bunch of cassettes and then you hope you
sell them, right, and in this case, we're like, you
know what, let's just like for people who want them,

(01:01:22):
they'll order them and then we'll make records specifically for them,
and that way it's just like it's like customized. It's
like you know it's on demand.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Basically, it almost feels like, you know, you've got something
more exclusive that way, because as the person receiving the record,
you're like, you know that you're one of x amount
of people who have it, as opposed to like you know,
it's everywhere. It's like, you know everybody else can get
it too, Okay, Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
So. Yeah, if anyone's interested, if you go to the
Spit Slam band camp, or if you just google spit Slam,
you'll you'll be able to navigate toward it. But I
hope if anyone out there gets it, I hope you
enjoy it. I appreciate the support.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah, no doubt, man, everybody listening, you know, definitely check
it out. It's a really great album. And as an
old head who does want to hear something that has
a little bit of a modern twist but has an
old feel to it, this is like the album for you,
so definitely go check it out. Let's take a quick
break from my conversation with my man Dj m Rock
and play a track from the album we've been promoting
and talking about from the Green Moon Rising project with

(01:02:23):
Pavo and Dj Mrock that drops in September thirtieth. Here
is a track from that upcoming album. It is called
Violence What It Breeds. Play this song and on the
other side of this, we'll get right back into it
with the one and only DJ Mrock. But here we
go from Green Moon Rising, Violence What It Breeds from
dj Mbrock and Pavo. Here on the Infinite Banter podcasts.

Speaker 6 (01:03:10):
Hey Yeah, dupe boys come in there and then the
truth disupported, Hard broke were not.

Speaker 7 (01:03:20):
Supported, con Warts done survived the ground. Heroes don't play Europe.

Speaker 1 (01:03:24):
We hear no come for.

Speaker 6 (01:03:26):
Three days when they last bout the freeways over the
last of green Haze.

Speaker 8 (01:03:30):
Come with the red take quarteenth Protocols, head place, every
boys go, get the banks did the read is no
more mind They instruments will lost, no time for the
simit for the tagle Jim.

Speaker 7 (01:03:41):
We have what we need.

Speaker 5 (01:03:43):
Evidence drew, then fountains too many five years.

Speaker 7 (01:03:46):
Boots on the ground, requiants see days here. We need food,
but denys.

Speaker 6 (01:03:50):
Officials are all called lions.

Speaker 5 (01:03:53):
It tells us to tell then Erny, not too many
people left to be converted.

Speaker 7 (01:03:59):
You deserve it. Our l never said picture perfect. I'm
a still.

Speaker 6 (01:04:03):
Defend does defense list put it up the replicates life
whire fences to proof the slow down.

Speaker 7 (01:04:08):
As we plump around, scientists and.

Speaker 6 (01:04:09):
Medical officials hold on the grand all us that there
spend me needs us about these streets to walk on
the sky yet breeze by this said Breathe cannot famill
need all of that DearS you wrin me.

Speaker 7 (01:04:22):
Needs us above these streets to walk on the sky.

Speaker 6 (01:04:25):
Yet breathe final as it breathe cannot famill this need.

(01:04:47):
Wow that Horner served us a morning Thomas here, but
I feel no morning kill cole redburn radio coat.

Speaker 7 (01:04:54):
We in the every yell win thew vib fall, take
the meassage his head.

Speaker 5 (01:04:58):
We try hell do and on a woe we denied
understand saying who we can't far off the effect.

Speaker 7 (01:05:04):
Then your ooh ray said for love species and your beast.
The break comes here in fun of what the DJs.

Speaker 5 (01:05:11):
Gather in corpse in depth is the lad no cure
but the flame of a fred Now baby just baby
time or reveal easy cop bout each stick coming down
normal after disappeal, No way will I be coming next?

Speaker 7 (01:05:24):
Meet all of us left here, you brin me need.

Speaker 6 (01:05:27):
Just avive these streets and you walk on the sky
yet brief, why list it breathe has not a building steed?
All of us left in you quin me needs just
avive these streets to walk on the sky. Yet, brief,
why lest it breathe cannot a building steed?

Speaker 7 (01:05:42):
Yeah, from the from the sky yet breath?

Speaker 6 (01:05:51):
Violence?

Speaker 1 (01:05:51):
What it breaths?

Speaker 3 (01:05:54):
What's up?

Speaker 6 (01:05:54):
Fam?

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
This is your DJ silver Spinner on Infinite Banter with
your man DJ South. That was from the new album
Green Moon Rising, from the upcoming project Green Moon Rising
from Pavo and DJ Mrock. You just heard violence, what
it breeds. Let's get back into my conversation with my
man DJ m Rock. We talk about this project, we
talk about the thing and John Carpenter movies. I kind

(01:06:17):
of go off on a tangent about Chicago as far
as like people claiming it who were not really in
the city limits at a lot of nonsense. But definitely
stay tuned a lot to get into what DJ Mrock
here on the Infinite Banter podcast. Speaking of albums, You've
got a new project coming out, Green Moon Rising. I
love the cover first of all. I love The Walking
Dead and Night of Living Dead Georgia merrill stuff. And

(01:06:38):
I remember telling me when you first are you know,
talking about the project, You're like, it's kind of like
John Carpenter, It's kind of got this feel to it.
And yeah, man, I love it. And I think you
said like nine inch Nails kind of also aspect to it.
And it's you and Pavo. Man, it's really cool. It
feels like, you know, when I'm listening to it, I
feel like I'm in the zombie apocalypse because of because

(01:07:01):
you can hear like the news reports kind of in
the background, and you know, all the the crackling of
sounds and everything, and in each track kind of flows
together like it's man, talk about working on this and
is it out yet? Is it actually out forever? Am
I done? Who's heard it?

Speaker 6 (01:07:15):
Like?

Speaker 2 (01:07:16):
No, no, man, thank you. You're the first person outside
of Sea Doc and I and and Lender that's heard it.

Speaker 1 (01:07:25):
I'm not worthy. I'm doing then Wayne's World thing. That's awesome, man,
big up.

Speaker 2 (01:07:30):
No man, I'm glad. I'm glad. I'm really glad. And
I'm glad that you enjoyed it because I know that, like,
in addition to being the head, like you're into sci
fi and zombies and you know, so it's cool that
this is hitting on all cylinders for you. Basically what
this and it's not out yet. It drops September thirtieth.
Just to answer your question. So, the the whole premise

(01:07:51):
behind this album was an accident. I was sitting on
my couch one day flipping through channels and John Carpenter's
The Thing came on and I love that movie. I've
seen it a million one of the greatest movies ever made. Yeah,
preach there is Man, Yeah, dude, yeah, bro, it's it
was the very end scene. It's when Keith David and

(01:08:13):
Kurt Russell are standing there and everything's on fire around
them and they are exhausted from everything they've just been
through and they're kind of sizing each other up, like
are you the thing? Am I the right?

Speaker 1 (01:08:23):
We don't know. As a few, we could never actually
never get the answer to that. We have no idea, right, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:28):
Yeah you don't. There's all these like fan theories and stuff.
It's one of those like debates that could like you
could go either way. But so John Carpenter does a
lot of his own soundtrack. However, for that one, anyomrricone
who did The Good, The Band The Ugly, and on Touchables.
He did the soundtrack, Oh wait.

Speaker 1 (01:08:43):
A minute, that you're right about? Oh my god, how
did I forget that? The Good one of the all
time great movies soundtracks of all time? Okay he did that, man, Yeah, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:55):
So you know, and as a nerd, I had to
go find that out immediately. Yeah, right there, you go, like,
I gotta know anyway where I'm going with this. Was
during that scene where they're talking to each other, Anio's
got like strings playing in the background and they kind
of just blend in with the scene. They didn't really
I wasn't even aware of them, but Keith David asked

(01:09:16):
Kurt Russell. He goes, so, what do we do now?
And Kurt Russell says his famous line is like, why
don't we just stand here and see what happens? And
at that point, Keith David lights a cigar and puts
it in his mouth, and this baseline came in. It
was very John Carpenter esque. It was just a don't, don't, don't, don't,
and all of a sudden, the scene has tension now
and it's like a heartbeat, but it's electronic and it's

(01:09:37):
so simple, and it cut through the whole scene. And
I don't know why, I've seen this movie a million times,
but I heard that for the first time, like I
had never heard it before, like I was watching the
movie for the first time or something, and I'm like,
that's cool. I'm like, man, that's so carpenter esque, Like
I gotta go check out his soundtrack. And I forgot
that he's a musician and not just like an amazing filmmaker.

(01:09:57):
So I went down the rabbit hole of Carpenter soundtracks,
and you know, I started at Assault on Precinct thirteen
and work my way.

Speaker 1 (01:10:03):
Like wow, of course Halloween is like, you know, the
classic horror Oh yeah, score of all time and.

Speaker 2 (01:10:09):
Oh yeah, absolutely. And what I love about Carpenter is
like back in the eighties, you know, maybe it was
the budgets, but you know, people were using like Jerry
Goldsmith for like Raiders of the Lost Art kind of soundtracks, right,
And He's like, I'm gonna make my own soundtracks and
I'm gonna use what I have available. I don't have
an orchestra. I'm gonna use what's around here. Synthesizers, right,

(01:10:29):
they boards, drum, machines, like very electronic, very with the times.
So as I was listening to all of his stuff,
I was like, man, like, it would be really cool
if someone were to put out a hip hop equivalent
of this where it sounds like a John Carpenter soundtrack
with all of his synths and the drum machines that
sound extremely eighties, but someone's rapping over it, Like wouldn't

(01:10:50):
that be cool? And then I'm like, hey, dumbass, you
should make that, Like why you know, why don't you
do that?

Speaker 1 (01:10:54):
Why why you wait for somebody else to do this thing?
You do yourself?

Speaker 2 (01:10:58):
Yeah, I could do it myself. So I'm like, Okay,
that'll be that'll be fun. And I'm like, but you know,
some of it, because it's dated, some of the eighties
stuff sounds a little on the on the cheesy side,
and I'm like, it needs to be a little noisier
and grittier, and it should have a little bit of
a nine Inch Nails electronic vibe to it, where it's
a little crunchier and and that kind of thing. So

(01:11:18):
that's where the whole like, it doesn't sound like a
nine inch Nails album, but there's a little bit of
the sound sensibility that Trent brings in his stuff that
sounds distorted and mean.

Speaker 1 (01:11:27):
It's got all that distortion to it, right.

Speaker 2 (01:11:30):
Yeah, yeah, because dude, this is a zombie outbreak. It's
not pretty, you know, It's like it's gritty as hell.
So I started putting tracks together and then I was like, well,
if we're gonna do like a soundtrack kind of thing,
it should tell a story. And I'm like, what what
kind of story should it tell? I hadn't thought of

(01:11:50):
zombies like up until this point. I just knew I
wanted to do a Carpenter esque kind of like production
kind of thing. And then I'm like, if I was
gonna watch like a movie, what would I you know,
what would I want to see? And I'm like, oh,
I freaking love zombie movies. I'm like, let's make this
like a zombie soundtrack that John Carpenter would have put
out back in the eighties if there was such a movie.
So that was the impetus and then I'm like, Okay, well,

(01:12:11):
who is like crazy enough to work on this with me?
And I'm like there's only one guy. There's there's one
person that I know that I would that could pull
this off and make it sound really cool. And I've
never worked with them before. We're in each other extended circle,
but we have never worked together. And that was Pavo.
So the reason that I know about Pavo. For those

(01:12:32):
of you who've never heard Pavo, Pavo is like a
super dope EMBc. And he had worked with Hugo Monsta
on The Checks in the Mail, which is an album
that is also on Spit Slam and Limit Break. My
homie from Outsider Syndicate produced it and cut on it.
So there's like kind of that six degrees of you know,
Kevin Bacon thing going on, right, you know. And I

(01:12:54):
did a remix on that album for the title song,
the Checks in the Mail. And so I knew about
Pablo before then because he also like put out a
bunch of stuff, and he put out some like pretty
dark stuff with a producer named Chef Mike, And that's
what I remember hearing. I'm like, that guy has a
really good pen game. He can tell a story, which

(01:13:14):
is essential for this quote unquote soundtrack to a movie
that doesn't exist, and he can make things sound sinister
and creepy and eerie and at the same time, it
doesn't sound cheesy at all. I'm like, he's the guy,
like he is the guy, and I hope to God
that he says yes, because if he doesn't, the more
I think about it, I don't think there is anybody
that like this is going to work with. So I
was very timid and I reached out to him on

(01:13:35):
Instagram and surprisingly he said, yeah, you know, sounds great.
Flip me the beat I did. I was expecting to get.
You know, I guess my head always goes to the worst. Man,
I'm just wired that way. But I'm like expecting an
email or it's like right, you know, like yeah, you know,
this really isn't my thing, but good luck at the project.
I was thinking that, right, but no, he was down

(01:13:57):
and like he did the first song and he wrote
I I believe he wrote in chronological order so that
you get a story from the beginning of the zombie
outbreak and how it happens. It starts with like meteors
falling from the sky, and basically the story is is
that they hit Earth. They infect our water supply, they

(01:14:18):
infect our vegetation. People aren't aware they're drinking water, they're
they're eating food or whatever, and like that's how it
like starts, and then once you're infected, you go after
other people because you're you know, you're a zombie. So anyway,
he took us from the beginning of the outbreak all
the way to the end, and by the end, on
the very last song, he turns, you know, he turns himself,

(01:14:39):
and I just think that that was like so cool,
and I'm just blown away by like his writing, his storytelling.
If you listen to the songs over and over, you'll
probably catch nuances that you didn't hear before in his vocals.
And he was absolutely incredible, and I was so blessed
that he said yes, and I was so blessed that
he did what he did with the tracks, and it

(01:15:02):
took it to a whole different level. I never imagine
the album would be what it is, so yeah, it
worked out. And then we had one last track. There
was one that I wanted to set aside for almost
like an end credits kind of scene, and that's there's
an instrumental on the on the very end, and it
gets a little into the eighties cheese, but like that's
I feel like that's how this movie would have ended.
In the eighties. Well, the credits roll, but there was

(01:15:22):
one beat that he wasn't really feeling and I'm like, okay,
we should get a feature. And then I'm like, oh, man, Lavender,
like she's this.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
Dope MP's So that's a track that he didn't want.

Speaker 2 (01:15:32):
To Yeah, yeah, it's funny. It's one of my favorite
tracks sonically on the album. So it wasn't like, Okay,
you know, here's some scraps for Lavender. It was like, oh, okay, cool, like,
you know, maybe maybe show rap on this. And the
reason I went with her is not only she really
skilled she can sing, but she also has like a
dark side to what she can do, and I wanted

(01:15:54):
her to add a different dimension to the overall story
of this quote unquote soundtrack, but do it different. And
that's what she did. And once again, kind of like
with Pabo when she sent me back, when she sent me,
I was like, oh my god, this is so above
and beyond where I would have thought the song could go.
And once again, I'm very thankful and blessed that she
said yes and she delivered what she delivered. So yo, man, like,

(01:16:16):
if this album, if people enjoy it, like I take
credit for the sonics, but I really think it's the
lyrics that make this what it is. And I got
a shot out Pabo and Lavender for amazing work.

Speaker 1 (01:16:27):
Man. I mean, it's pretty cool that, you know, initially
he was your first guy you thought of, and he said, yes,
I need you wrote this great story to it and
rose listening when you do get a chance to hear it.
You can't really just listen to track two and then
track six or whatever. It doesn't work that way. You
have to play it from start to finish. And it's short,
so you know, people with short attention spans, you know,
just set aside twenty minutes and you could get through

(01:16:48):
the whole thing because, like you said, it's a story
that unravels and at the end, do you kind of
spoil it already? He turned, so yeah, And I like
her placement, right, it's kind of like in the middle
sort of, so it kind of I breaks it up,
but it adds another element to it as things kind
of change in the story, so it's kind of like
a like a middle ground. I like it. And you

(01:17:09):
said that's the beat that you really liked that you
didn't want to just toss that aside. You had to
use it somehow, and you found a way to make
it work right with the overall concept of the album.

Speaker 2 (01:17:17):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I didn't want to toss that and
I didn't want it to be just an instrumental. I
wanted to do more with it, and luckily Lavender said yes,
And it's deliberately put in the middle to kind of
provide that break, that refresher that you're talking about and
add a different perspective from another survivor who's out there
trying to get through this this apocalypse that's happening. And

(01:17:38):
I thought you just did an amazing job. I was
like super thankful. And if you guys like news clips
and stuff like about disasters and zombies and invasions, like
you'll like it too. Week. I added a lot of
that because I wanted to help kind of like keep
people's place in the story. And it kind of goes
from people talking about like, oh, I'm seeing this weird
stuff in the sky to the end like all hell's
let loose. There's just like sirens going off, like it's

(01:18:00):
just it's over, Like you know, it's chaos. The zombies one,
it's chaos. Yeah, absolutely, So you mentioned the cover earlier
on and I just want to like revisit that real quick.

Speaker 3 (01:18:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:09):
I love the color. The green is really cool, man
it really Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:18:13):
Yeah once again at Sea doc Man. He so he
does the Lion's share of the cover art at Spitzlam
for all of us, and we we are so lucky
because he's a master at so many things and design
is one of those things. And he's very studied on
old hip hop covers, especially like stuff that came out
on Death Jam and the fonts that they use and

(01:18:34):
the formats and everything. And he doesn't like stay in
that bubble all the time, but like that's his foundation
and then he like builds on it, and so everything
he makes for us is really like professional and grounded
and slick looking. So he uh, you know, I was
asking him if he would do the cover and he
said yes, and that was awesome and then we talked

(01:18:55):
about it and then we're both fans of Romero's and
Neither Dead and he got inspired by that and he did.

Speaker 1 (01:19:03):
The Pittsburgh too, right, that's the home of Georgia Marrow.

Speaker 2 (01:19:09):
Yeah, bro, yeah, absolutely, Like I forget what he said.
He's like he's somewhat in a drivable distance from like
the farmhouse or whatever. And I don't know if it's
the original, right absolutely, oh man, so yeah, so man,
he he was like I think he was inspired by that,

(01:19:29):
and that's how we got the cover. And you know,
when people see it, I've just been putting teasers out
not showing the cover yet, but when you guys see it,
you'll see it's the silhouettes of this horde of zombies
coming toward you in a in a cemetery and it
feels very romero. And the reason we call it Green
Moon Rising is the virus, the infection that spreads. There's

(01:19:49):
this green mist that comes out of things when it's contaminated,
and that's how you know. And so like we go
from like daytime like morning, which is kind of like,
you know, everything's okay, Hey, it's a break finish, shiny
morning by the end. You know, if this was a day,
it'd be like the dark of night. And they won
and it's Green Moon Rising.

Speaker 1 (01:20:06):
So that's crazy. Man. I just before I even played
any of it, of course, I looked at the cover
and I was just like, yeah, man, this is uh,
this is gonna be great. I can't wait to pres
play and this thing because I love Night of Living
Dead and all the all the Romero stuff and you know,
the Walking Dead for better or worse, I still watch it.
I just watched the new Darrel show the other day
and kind of shoulder shrugging about it. But I'm still watching.

(01:20:28):
I'm still a fan of the content, even though I
kind of hate watching it now. But yeah, I've had
a lot of Walking Dead actors on this podcast, so
I'm definitely, you know, passionate about the genre and you
know that show still even if it's not living up
to my expectations. But still, yeah, anything with zombies in it,
I'm on board. I don't really like fast zombies. I

(01:20:50):
like the more slow moving you know, they could barely walk.
I don't know why. I just that's more my thing
than like twenty eight days later when they're like doing
you know, hurdles and stuff and catching you. That's too
much for me.

Speaker 2 (01:21:04):
Yeah, yeah, it's interesting because I know, like that's that's
like your classic zombie, right, It's like the lumbering slow
It's resident Evil, you know, Part one is like that
kind of zombie. And then yeah, it's like over over
time and stories. Video games whatever they've they've gotten faster
and they're they're more menacing like that. But I totally
get it, man, it's it. I don't know, man, I

(01:21:26):
just love zombie stuff and like, dude, I think you'll
appreciate this. But Marvel Zombies is coming out on Disney
Plus soon, which animated, which will be amazing base based.

Speaker 1 (01:21:36):
On the comics from like fifteen years ago when they
did Yes, Arthur Sudam, I hope I'm saying his name right, Oh, yes, man.

Speaker 2 (01:21:43):
Yes, And it looks dope. The animation is really good.
You can see some trailers on YouTube if you're curious.
But that's coming I think November if I'm not mistaken.
But yeah, that's gonna be crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:21:56):
So speaking of you know that, I actually have hanging
up on my because I met Arthur at a comic
con here in Chicago. I have a Clint Eastwood Good Band,
the ugly but zombified art piece that he did. I
bought it from him like twenty bucks or whatever, and
he signed it and I framed it. It's hanging on
the wall here so that you know, no name in it,
like a zombie form. It's so cool. And you're saying this.

(01:22:18):
I'm just like, I'm so out of the loop at
a lot of things because I have a six year
old and she controls, you know, all the viewing things.
So I have no idea that this is even going
to exist, and you're telling me it does. What what
platform is it going to be on? Because I need
to find out immediately. Oh I watched this.

Speaker 2 (01:22:34):
Yeah, yeah, I believe it's Disney Plus because they you know,
they're you know, they're basically you know, they own Marvel,
so I believe it's coming out on that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:42):
I can't cancel them yet. Okay, Yeah, everybody's canceling Disney
and I don't want to get into it too much,
but maybe I need to wait just a couple more weeks.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
Yeah, that's always the way. It's like, oh man, you
know this streaming platform has nothing, and then they tease
you with something. You're like, oh, okay, fine, I'll stay you.

Speaker 1 (01:23:00):
Know, yes, you got me, you got me back, all right?

Speaker 2 (01:23:02):
Yeah? Yeah, absolutely, so yeah, I'm all over.

Speaker 4 (01:23:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:06):
The previews are looking good. I hope you enjoy it, bro.
And that poster sounds amazing. Yeah, I'll send you a
picture of it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
I'll take a screenshot of and send it to because
it's And I bought those comic books too, Like it
was like the Fantastic Four. Weard zombies and Black Panther
was a zombie and Spider Man and all that. Oh,
those covers are just amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
They are They are many. It's like one cover says
so much and you can see so much detail, and yeah,
it's amazing stuff. But I don't know if you played
did you play like Red Dead Revolver and Red Dead
Redemption at all?

Speaker 1 (01:23:35):
I'm familiar with the games, but I've never actually played them,
at least to a point where I could say that
I'm good at it or can speak on it, you know,
with any kind of experience. But I'm definitely aware of
those game I know how great they are.

Speaker 3 (01:23:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:48):
Yeah, Well, the reason I bring it up is there's
like there's a zombie version of one of the titles,
and basically it's you are the same character, but like
everyone is getting infected and instead of going into you know,
you know, western towns and going into saloons and duking
out with people, like zombies have killed everybody in the

(01:24:08):
town and it's infected and it's like, you know, some
of the towns are barren because everyone's dead and some
are like filled with like zombies, and it rarely reminds
me of like what you're talking about with your Claneatwood
Gunfighter Cowboy, right, seeing a zombie Like, that's what this
game is basically. So if you get a chance to
check it out, and it's watch a clip on YouTube,
it's it's really cool, man.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
All right, there you go. Another thing. And you know,
every time I do a podcast, I always have to
take notes and things I need to go listen to
or watch or look up and yeah, I've got three
or four things I'm writing down here as you're talking. Anything,
get up on and check out. Man, that's awesome. I'm
still blown away by the whole Marvel zombies thing. I
had no idea. It was just like when I used
to read The Boys, and I remember in real time

(01:24:50):
reading because I have all the issues. I bought them
every you know, once a month whatever, and I remember
reading them was like, well, this will never be a thing.
They can't make this into a live action show or movie.
I was wrong, and they did it. It's not as
bad as the comics. It's if you could tone it down,
which is impossible to do. It's not quite as graphic
as the Kinds of a Man. That's uh. They did

(01:25:12):
it justice. It's crazy. I haven't finished them all either,
by the way, but The Boys is nuts.

Speaker 2 (01:25:17):
Dude is so nuts. And I don't know if you
caught it, but Phil has a lyric in h one
of our almies is uh, what did he say, I'll
zap you like Homeland or something? And he makes it
sound I forget it the lyrics, But.

Speaker 1 (01:25:32):
How I miss that? I gotta go back. I mean,
it's like anything, you gotta watch it or hear it
multiple times to catch all the you know you. With
the Green Moon Rising, I was listening to it, I
was like, I know, I'm missing a ton of stuff here,
you know, I gotta I gotta focus and it definitely
just dive more into it because I'm sure there's other
nuances to it that I'm missing out on. So okay,
he ran Homeland a reference nice.

Speaker 2 (01:25:51):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's in uh, that's in beat y'all.
So that's in the very first track video. You can
see him do that. But you know, I I loved
it because it's like I never know when I work
with these guys like going back to the whole nerd thing, right, Like,
I know that I'm a nerd or a geek or
whatever you want to call it. I'm comfortable in my
own skin. I've accepted it. Right. But you're working with

(01:26:11):
these like super cool dope ass MC's, and I'm like,
I don't want to let them know I watched The
Boys or you know, comic books or whatever. And then
he comes up with a Homelander reference. I'm like, oh, awesome, Okay,
We're like in the same boat. This is cool, you know.
So I think a lot of these guys are probably
more into this stuff than we think. Oh. I can
obviously DMC. But I got to work with Cool g

(01:26:33):
rap and the first thing I put out with him
is a Maxi single. It's called the Octagon, and I
was on the I got to actually like call him
and talk to him on the phone, and we were
talking about like the beats and the song and what
we wanted to do with it, and then we just
started talking about like just everyday stuff, right, and g
Rep starts bringing up Batman and we start talking about

(01:26:54):
Batman and he's like a big fan, and I'm like,
this is the gangster like this is like this is
cool to you wrap and here we are talking about
Batman like it was just so funny, and and I realized, yeah,
he's into the stuff too, you know, so it's cool.
Maybe it goes with the territory and I just don't
know it, but it's it's cool when you realize these
guys are into all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:27:14):
I think I was talking to Ultramac seven a couple
episodes back. We had brought up the wrestling aspect too,
because I grew up on eighties wrestling. Oh yeah, and
when I hear like, you know, Griselda and everybody you
know doing the wrestling references, I always thought that it
was like one of those things, like I liked it,
but I wasn't sure how I was allowed to tell
people that I liked because I was always looked at
it's like, you know, it's fake and all that, you
know and all that nonsense. So you know, and then

(01:27:36):
I started thinking back, I'm like, well, Na says Slammer
like iron cheek. You know. I guess it's been a thing.
You know, there's been little morsels of you know, references,
and that's with any genre comic books superhero, Star Wars
or anyone to throw in there. There's always little things
and it's like, oh man, NAS said up, Okay, it
was cool back then. I just didn't catch it.

Speaker 2 (01:27:54):
Yeah yeah. I mean if not says, it's gotta be cool, right,
So I'm I'm with you on that, yeah man.

Speaker 1 (01:28:00):
And you know, I mean being a Star Wars nerd too.
Whenever I hear anybody do like a I think Everlasted
backflip like a Jedi. One time in a song, I
was like, WHOA ever Last is a Star Wars fan?
And I like them even more stuff like that.

Speaker 2 (01:28:14):
Man, Yeah, it's like, oh man, okay, cool like and
it just I don't know, man, it makes these guys
more accessible somehow. It's like, okay, like I could see
hanging out with this guy, not that it would ever happen,
but like, you know, if I hung out with g
rap like, I I know that, like, if he gets
on the mic, he's gonna be like stone cold killer
and he's gonna just spit some verses that are crazy, right.
But but we're going to talk about Batman when he's

(01:28:36):
not in the booth. You know, it's just like pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
I mean when I when I met DMC in person. Uh,
it was at a comic book convention here in Chicago,
So it was like crazy, like I'm talking him about
and I was called I told him at the time,
and I played it during the podcast that he was
like a superhero for me, like in real life, because
I wanted to be run DMC. I wanted to wear Adidas.
I still do to this day because of those guys,
so like they were superheroes in a sense. But but
to kind of flip it that he was looking at

(01:29:00):
comic books and saying we were same way we were.
You know, he's looking at Thor and Captain America in
the same light point of view, and like that helped
build his confidence to get on stage. It's just mind blowing.
And I'm a big baseball fan. Chuck d is a
huge baseball fan. I see he put out a track
about Fergie Jenkins, and I'm a big Cubs fan. I
was like, whoa, Chuck, like's oh, man, Okay, I'm on
the right track here. It's like it's cool to like

(01:29:21):
the Cubs, all right.

Speaker 2 (01:29:24):
It's like, yeah, oh it's great, man, And I don't know, like,
you know, going back to the eighties thing you were
saying that like, you know, back when in the eighties,
like being called a nerd or a geek or whatever,
it was an insult. But somehow with pop culture, I
don't know if it was the cons and the C
two E Tuoes of the World or whatever, or the
movies coming out or whatever, but I feel like it's

(01:29:44):
become much more accepted and actually celebrated, and it's like,
you know a lot of people like this stuff and
it's okay now. But maybe we're just ahead of our time.
Back in the eighties, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Yeah, it was different because right when you were a kid,
it was always, you know, the football guy was the
cool guy, and you know, the cheerleader is a cool girl,
which maybe that still is a thing. When my six
year old goes to high school, they'll find out what
the actual traits are of the cool kids. But for me,
you know, we're hanging out with you know what, we're
you know, playing video games and you know, reading comic
books and watching Saturday cartoons and stuff, which maybe I

(01:30:15):
think the cheerleaders and the jocks are doing also, But
they weren't talking about it at school because they were
they were cool just by existing, I.

Speaker 2 (01:30:22):
Guess, so yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I wonder if they
did that behind closed doors.

Speaker 1 (01:30:27):
They probably did. Yeah, And I think the other thing
is too, is that people from our generation who grew
up on this stuff, they're kind of in charge of things.
So that's why this stuff is not even it's not
even whether it's cool or not. It's like it's in
the forefront because the people who liked it are like
CEOs and bosses and whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:30:44):
So yeah, so yeah, point, that's a really great point.

Speaker 1 (01:30:48):
Right, And of course, you know, the movies helped a lot.
You know, Marvel did its thing up until Endgame. After that,
it's been kind of a you know, off the cliff
for me a little bit. But yeah, it's still.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
Yeah, I know, it's just it's great and I love that,
like stuff keeps coming out, and I keep hoping, like
with you, like the you know, MCU, I just hope
it gets better. But I'm happy that they're putting stuff out.
I'm happy that DC's putting stuff out. I don't love
every Star Wars thing that comes out, but like and Or,
I absolutely love man that great yeah, oh man, yeah,

(01:31:20):
hell yeah. So the fact that that's still coming out.
So it's great because you know, the stuff that you
and I like that we grew up with, that has
such a nostalgic emotional connection and it kind of like
shaped who we are. Like like you said, like other
people our age are like continuing that tradition and keeping
it going instead of it just being lost. And I'm
trying to do that with the music. Bro that That's

(01:31:41):
why I make like classic sounding hip hop because I
miss that. I miss hearing that, like coming out of
cars and going into a club and hearing that or whatever,
and I miss that. And so when I create that,
that's me trying to kind of keep that energy going
a little bit as best as I can do. And
if you're of a certain age and you like that stuff,
you get to experience again, you know, And that's what

(01:32:01):
I'm trying to do. So there's like a connection between
the I think what we're talking about with like the
properties and like music.

Speaker 1 (01:32:07):
You know, man, I got to watch the thing. It's
been a while since I've seen it, and I know
that that music that you're talking about that kind of was,
you know, what inspired you to kind of put out
this album. I think that's something I need to revisit
because it's been a while since I've watched. I used
to have a thing I'd watch it every winter because
I love that scene about the couch. I want to
get off this fucking couch, you know, but before the
winter ends or something, when they're doing the test on everybody.
I don't know what the scene always got me, but

(01:32:29):
uh man, all right, so I gotta ask you this one.
So I'm from Chicago and I currently live in Mount Prospect,
which is a suburb of Chicago. Phills. Who have no
idea what I'm talking about. You said you live in Naperville.
Did I get that right?

Speaker 3 (01:32:42):
I do?

Speaker 2 (01:32:43):
Okay, So I grew up on the East Coast. I
was in New Jersey until I was nine, and I
was on the New Jersey side, not closer to New York,
but closer to Philly. And all my relatives are in Philly.
And that's how I think. I I, you know, visiting
Philly throughout my team years and stuff like that, I
got exposed to a lot of Philly hip hop and
it's just amazing. Man. I love all that stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:33:05):
But anyways, all that stuff right.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
Oh yeah, absolutely? Yeah? Schoolly tough crew, like.

Speaker 1 (01:33:11):
You know, see, I'm trying to think of all the
people from yeah that era.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
Yeah oh yeah, yeah so good. I love all that stuff.
So we moved to Massachusetts, you know, basically if my
dad like changed jobs, like we moved to where the
job was. So we ended up moving to a town
outside of Boston called Framingham, and I grew up there
and I was there. I went to college at Boston University,
and uh, when I graduated and came back home, it

(01:33:37):
was like my dad got another job and it was
in Illinois and it was very close to where you
live right now. Uh, So we moved out here. And
I was in Arlington Heights at the time because that's
where we lived. And then I moved out and yes,
I live in Aperville, which is a suburb of Chicago,
very suburban. It's like yeah, it's like there's there's no

(01:34:01):
street cred that if you see you live in Nell.

Speaker 1 (01:34:04):
I just listened to you talk and you're like saying
like Philadelphia and Jersey. I'm like, wow, looks cool place
he's been. And he's in Naperville. It's like it doesn't
even like have like any kind of there's no nuance
at Apriville. It's just a suburb southwest of Chicago or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:34:21):
Absolutely very pleasant ville. You know, it's just it's hilarious.
But yeah, and I I, you know, there are things
I love about the East Coast, and there's definitely things
I love about the Midwest. And I feel like the
from my experience, my personal experience, I feel like people
out here are more salt of the earth. They're friendlier.

(01:34:41):
You can strike up a conversation with someone a lot
easier being an introvert. I don't really do that too much,
but like it's good to know in a you know,
I can whereas you know, East Coast. I like the
energy out there and the vibe. And there was something
about like I don't know if it was the cities
that I was going to up like that, but I
missed that a little bit, right, But Chicago's a beautiful

(01:35:04):
city too, and yeah, man, Chicago. So I don't know, Man,
there's there's good aspects to both. But I've been out
here since ninety six, so it's all.

Speaker 1 (01:35:11):
You've been a while then, okay, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:35:14):
Yeah, So at this point, I'm I consider myself like
an Illinois.

Speaker 1 (01:35:17):
Yeah, say, like, so, how do you cause that's That's
something I've struggled with for years. It's like, I was
born and raised in Chicago North Side Rogers Park, but
I've been living in Mount Prospect for like twenty five
years or whatever. So yeah, there's this rule I don't
know if you know about it in Chicago where you
can't say you're Chicago in if you don't actually live
in the city limits, you know, like you can't like
you're a neighborville. I'm in Mount Prospect. I'm not supposed

(01:35:38):
to say I'm in Chicago. But if I'm talking to
some guy from Jersey, he doesn't know what the hell
Mount Prospect is, So I got to say Chicago.

Speaker 2 (01:35:47):
Yeah, absolutely absolutely, And I think, uh, you know, the
Blues Brothers mentioned Mount Prospect and and that's a very
Chicago movie.

Speaker 1 (01:35:54):
So you know, yeah, okay, good, Yeah, gave you a
little bit of street cred there, right, The Blues.

Speaker 2 (01:35:57):
Brothers talked about it. You know what, I noticed a
lot of people do. And I say this too, I'm
from the Chicago Land area. Like that's like there you go,
you say, you know, that's awesome. Yeah, it's just funny.

Speaker 4 (01:36:10):
Man.

Speaker 2 (01:36:10):
If people didn't know me and they saw where I lived,
and then they listened to the music I was making.
They'd be like what like how did like what?

Speaker 5 (01:36:17):
Like?

Speaker 1 (01:36:17):
You know, but you're not Fro. You weren't born in Neighborville.
Like you didn't come up in Nahborville. You weren't. And
I think if you were born in Aperville, you would
not be doing what you're doing now.

Speaker 2 (01:36:26):
And then it's probably assessment.

Speaker 1 (01:36:29):
Yeah, I would agree in advertising or I don't know
what you I have no idea what people in Naperville do.
What's North Central College is at the big school out there?

Speaker 3 (01:36:38):
Right? That is?

Speaker 2 (01:36:38):
Yeah. You know what's hilarious about this whole thing. You
just said, My day job is in advertising. That's right.

Speaker 1 (01:36:45):
Oh see, And I'm just saying like those eighties movies
where like every you know, actor in the movies was
like they weren't in advertising, like Steve Martin or something,
and then they had to go do something if it
rested a movie, but their job was advertising.

Speaker 2 (01:36:57):
Yeah that's dude, that's exactly. Yeah, I'm in advertising and marketing.
I'm a creative director.

Speaker 1 (01:37:02):
Oh that's awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:37:03):
The whole thing about writing it carried into my job.
So I'm a creative director, not on the design side,
but on the writing side. And that's what I do
is my day gig, and it makes it possible to
be able to, you know, get a drum machine every
once in a while, or some new speakers or whatever.
And I really, I really respect people who are are
trying to make it in music but also like holding

(01:37:25):
down the day job, because dude, it's hard, man like,
and you you know, I'm sure.

Speaker 1 (01:37:29):
So it's not. It's not easy at all. And you know,
back to the Chicago thing, I me and my guy
DJ real One shout out to him. He just moved
to Houston and he has Chicago, you know, because Chicago
people are all over the country. Maybe you've noticed that
there's like transplants everywhere. And whenever he runs into like
a quote unquote Chicago person, they'll say like, yeah, I'm
from Chicago, and he'd be like, well where what part?

(01:37:49):
Oh Schanberg, Like it's not really Chicago. Or like when
I used to work at the radio job, I had
to screen calls and they would have to tell like
what side there, you know, where are you calling from?
Like where are you calling from? They're like, I'm calling
from Chicago, Like well, what side north Side South was
like no, no, uh Hinsdale Like, that's not Chicago, man, jackass,
It's what are you doing. Palo's Heights is not Chicago.

Speaker 2 (01:38:15):
No, no, it is not. Oh my god.

Speaker 1 (01:38:17):
So I don't know if you deal with that. You know,
now that you're here, have you have you encountered people
who claim Chicago using quotation of marks but they're in
Naperville or Mount Prospect or Mount Greenwood or whatever.

Speaker 6 (01:38:29):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:38:30):
No, I have not run into that, but I feel
like I'm guilty of that because I think like if
if there's like an artist bio about me or something,
it says Chicago in it, it doesn't say it should
from Mean Street to Naperville.

Speaker 1 (01:38:42):
No, no it should because, like I said, Chuck d
doesn't know what the hell of day. Maybe he does,
but most people don't know what neighbor Phille is. So yeah,
it's fine, Yeah, claim it. My rule is you can
claim it to outsiders, but yeah, I will, yes, But
if they start knowing you longer, you might want to
tecond a little more. If not, I'm not saying you,
I'm not calling you out, but other people it'd be

(01:39:02):
a little more specific. I'll be like, okay, in my
prospect that's outside Chicago, right, get off my back.

Speaker 2 (01:39:08):
Yeah yeah, yep. You gotta come clean because they're gonna
find out one way or the others.

Speaker 1 (01:39:14):
There you go, man, no doubt. Man, Man, Let let
heads know where they can find your music. Follow you
on lines. I know that you know you and c
doc and Ultramac seven. You guys have so much out
there content wise, as far as you know, on social
media and everything. Let the heads know where they can
follow you. And of course go ahead and promote Green

(01:39:34):
Moon Rising coming soon September thirtieth. I think you said,
oh yeah, man, thank you so much.

Speaker 2 (01:39:39):
So being an introvert, I'm not super social, but I
am on the social so.

Speaker 1 (01:39:44):
You have to be right. It's some in some form another.
If you do something like music, you have to somehow,
I guess, be out there for people to, you know,
know that you're promoting something.

Speaker 2 (01:39:52):
Right you you totally do and like So if anyone's
interested in checking me out on Instagram, I'm at djm Rock.
That's DJ m R okay on Instagram. I'm not on Facebook,
I'm not on TikTok, I'm not on anything else. I'm
not on act no dance video, yeah yeah, yeah, no no.
And it's all about the music, man. I don't post

(01:40:13):
anything personal, but like if you're curious about, like you know,
what's coming out or like you know, if there's like
an anniversary of an album that came out, like ce Doc,
will post that and then I'll upload it or whatever.
So it's on my page. If you want to hear
the music, you can go to my band camp. So
it's just you know, if you go to band camp
and you type in dj m R, okay, you'll get

(01:40:36):
to my page. You can go to djmrock dot com.
I've got my own website which probably nobody goes to anymore,
but that's there too. You go check out and that
links out to everything as well. You can go to
spit Slam and you can hear that stuff. I do
have some of you know, all right, I will say this,
but I'll only touch on it really quickly. I do
have some of my stuff pulled down off of Spotify,

(01:40:57):
some of my solo stuff. And the reason I do
is for those who are music fans and you're not
making music. If Spotify is your streaming platform, a choice,
totally cool. It's just one of the worst as far
as being on the musician side, with the fraction of
a penny that you get, all right, yeah, and then
where that money goes to. I won't get into it,

(01:41:21):
but if you look up the owner of Spotify and
see what he invests in, it's a really hard kill
to swallow. But that's what everybody's on. So if you
want to get your stuff out there, you got to
have a Spotify presence. But I would just say try
to go to band camp. Like band Camp, everything's up there.
It's cool, and you'll be able to find Green Moon
Rising coming out September thirtieth. It'll be on all platforms,

(01:41:43):
including Spotify because it's from spits Land, and you can
get it on CD as well, So so there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:41:50):
I always promote band Camp. So first I love the
app and I love how Yeah, everything I've ever bought
from there it's in a little folder basically collection on
band Camp, and as far as I know, it's it's
probably the most direct way to support the artists, right,
I mean, it's pretty much other than just handing you
money for something. It's it's probably the closest we get
in these days, right of a platform that has a

(01:42:11):
direct interaction with you and your music and your product,
and you know you somehow, you know, not the pennies
like Spotify would give you.

Speaker 2 (01:42:18):
Yeah, yeah, oh it's great, And you hit that on
the head. It is like if you, you know, for
everyone out there, if you really want to support your
your favorite artist doesn't have to be me, but band
camp is definitely the way that you'll show them the
most love. But I understand it's the real world. People
are on Apple Music, Spotify, iTunes, you know whatever. The
fact that people are listening is great and I'm I'm

(01:42:39):
very appreciative of it.

Speaker 1 (01:42:40):
That's what's up, man. I have to ask you the
same question ask Sea Doc and Ultramac seven. The origin
of the name is it? Is it a long you
know story like seat Docs is a little more easier
to hit to give the origin.

Speaker 2 (01:42:50):
Of it's a It's a pretty quick one actually, so
much like everybody else, you know, we had different hip
hop names during the different eras because certain naming can
inventions were cool, right And when I when I came back,
so to speak, you know, in my late forties, I'm like, okay,
I can't use what I used back in the day
because that's corny. Now I need to come up with
something else. And I went through some iterations which were

(01:43:13):
also really bad, and I'm like, what can I do
that actually feels personal, that isn't gimmicky, that like has
something to do with my real name. My real name
is Mark with a K.

Speaker 1 (01:43:25):
I'm like, that's, by the way, solution, No C does
this spell with the C.

Speaker 2 (01:43:32):
It's a K.

Speaker 6 (01:43:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:43:33):
So I'm like, what can I do with the letters
in my name to like come up with a DJ name?
And I always like add rock, sub rock, chubb rock.
I always saw having rock in your name was cool
because it was like it was like hard, like we're
gonna rock or I'm hard as a rock or you
know whatever. You know, like rock is just cool. So
I'm like, okay, well I have M A R K.
I can't do anything with M A R. But if

(01:43:54):
I take M R and I throw an O in
there and add the K, it's m rock. And I'm
like that that feels about right. That's personal to my name.
You know, it has like a hip hop like kind
of like uh sort of sensibility to it, but it's
not some corny random name that I just pulled out
of thin air, which I definitely had before. So that's
how I got dj Amrock.

Speaker 1 (01:44:14):
Awesome and the sea is not it's are okay for
those listening, right, that's how you spell it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Yeah yeah. I always tell people if you if you
need to know how to spell it, just think of
mister okay, like you know, mister okay, Okay, he's not great,
he's not bad.

Speaker 1 (01:44:29):
It's okay, okay. I guess it could work both ways.
It makes somebody remember you, but it's like, wait a minute,
he's just he's just kind of average at this soul
hip hop thing.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
Yeah right, yeah, man, But that's how I got the
name bro.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
That's great, man. I love hearing these stories of origins
and names and uh man, big up for coming through
one here. I've been calling with you Ultramac seven and
see doc that the Trilogy of Guests, because all three
of you guys are connected, and all three of you
guys are different, like there's different stories and timeline and
how you guys all got to this point, and you know,
working with Chuck and Public Enemy and you know, Spit
Slam and all that and podcasts and everything. It's it's

(01:45:07):
just really cool to hear all these stories. And I
guess if this is a trilogy, you would be because
your third, your Return of the Jedi. I guess, do
you not like that movies? I know a lot of people.
I love it, but there's people who really don't like it.
And I've always loved it, but maybe because it was
the first Star Wars movie. I remember singing the theater,
but I guess that's just a memory aspect of it.

(01:45:28):
But so hopefully it's not an insult but calling your
Return of the Jedi of the trilogy.

Speaker 2 (01:45:32):
But no, man, that's dope. I mean, my favorite is Empire.
But right, I remember seeing Return of the Jedi. The
theater was so sold out. I had to sit in
the aisle on the floor to watch it. And I
didn't care. Man, I freaking loved it, you know, So
so yeah, man.

Speaker 1 (01:45:48):
Ro j, let's go sitting on top of snow caps
and Jujubi's or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:45:53):
Yeah, and whatever else is down there. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:45:55):
Now, I just remember as a kid I had I
was looking at the clock all day in school because
I knew I think it was on a Friday. I
just knew when I got out of there, we were
going to some theater in the Chicago area. I don't
remember what the name of the theater was. I just
knew I was going to see Return of the Jedi,
and I was pumped and I didn't care. I wasn't
even thinking about school all days, looking at that clock,
like I think I always wanted to get out of school,
but that day was like, when is it going to

(01:46:17):
be two thirty? I want to get out of here.
I'm done, Cat me out of this place, psychonic, go
see Job of the Hut.

Speaker 2 (01:46:23):
Yeah, oh, man, that must have been agonizing because it's
like those school days took forever to begin with, but
when you like are not even in it at all,
You're just wanting to get out of there. It's like
every second felt like a year.

Speaker 1 (01:46:34):
And I could have been the only kid who felt like,
you know, like a horse at the starting gate. I
was just ready to go. Like as soon as that
bell rang, like, we're all probably running to the movie
theater to see, you know, Return to the Jedi come
out so many that's the era, man, again, when you
brought up the thing, you just take me back to
that time, and I gotta watch that movie again. It's
been a while since I've seen it. I gotta I
gotta check out that that last scene and everything with

(01:46:56):
the baseline and all that.

Speaker 2 (01:46:57):
Yeah, yeah, you'll definitely hear it and then and the
movie's pretty much over at that point, so it's at
the very end. But for whatever reason, it had a
real effect on me. And yeah, man, that's my homage
to John Carpenter.

Speaker 1 (01:47:08):
Without a doubt. I got to meet Keith David at
a and I'm not comic kind was like a horror time.
It's called Days of the Dead around the Chicago areas,
like him and Roddy Piper, and they were talking about
they live and I was got set on watching their
panels just I'm talking about the fight scene and the
alley and I was like, this is so great. And
fortunately Roddy Piper passed away a couple of years after that,
but I got to meet him and everything, and Keith David,

(01:47:29):
it is like got the coolest voice, Like it's like
him and Tony Todd when I think of like awesome
voiceover guys like Keith David is that dude, man?

Speaker 2 (01:47:36):
So yeah, yeah, he's blessed with the pipes for sure.

Speaker 1 (01:47:38):
Yeah, without a doubt, But yeah, everybody listening. You know,
follow m Rock, check out Green Moon Rising, check out
Almost Chill, the work you've done with Chuck and Public Enemy,
and man, just just an honor having you on here
and here, and I'm sure there's a ton more stuff
I could bug you about. And now you know about
back and forth, which I didn't know before.

Speaker 2 (01:47:54):
So yeah, you got back and forth in Neighborville out
of me, which is okay. I must really trust you
if I went there.

Speaker 1 (01:48:02):
But yeah, a couple of runs down on you on
your hip hop credibility totem Paul or something whatever, Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:48:10):
It was so worth it. No, thanks for having me, man,
the honor is mine. I really appreciate it. And thanks
to everyone who's listening, and that you stuck through this
whole interview listening to me ramble on. So there you
go out to everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:48:21):
No doubt everybody listening. This is DJ Mrock. Check him out,
find all of his music and everything he's working with,
and look out for Green Moon Rising and Pavo coming
out September thirty. Man, big up for coming through. I
appreciate you, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:48:31):
Thank you, Bro. I appreciate you too. Man.

Speaker 1 (01:48:33):
Big salute to DJ m Rock a lot of fun
talking with him, and I knew it would be a
good time when I was going back and forth to
him before coming on the show here. So a lot
of similar interests and everything, And you know, it's not
just about music with someone like him, And that's I
always say this every time. I like when I get
to talk to artists or anybody from any field, and

(01:48:54):
it's not just about the project they're promoting, or the
project they have out or something that's coming up. Talking
about a lot of things and I get to get
into my nerd box and start pulling out stuff and
talking about it. So I'm a big fan of John
Carpenter and his movies, and I love the thing, And
it was really cool to hear that m Rock's project
Green Moon Rising coming out September thirtieth. Don't Sleep. The

(01:49:14):
basis of that kind of came from his you know,
the sense he got from watching the thing at the
end and the baseline and the music that plays at
the end of that movie, and it kind of got
him inspired to come up with this project. And I'm
a zombie head. It's one of my favorite horror icons,
so I definitely am all in for something like this,

(01:49:34):
So check out Green Moon Rising, PAVO and dj Emrock
coming out September thirtieth. Make sure you follow him online
and find out where you could find it on all
platforms and all that. Follow dj Mrock on Instagram djmr okay,
and make sure you stay in tune with everything he's doing,
especially this new project coming out next week. A couple
of things that dj Mrock talked about in the interview

(01:49:55):
that I want to highlight. I think it's pretty cool
that Coolgie Rap is into comic books, especially man. I
met Cool Gie Rap once seen him perform a couple
of times. You know, it's one of those things. And
I got to do the meet and greet. I didn't
really know what to ask him, and I wish at
the time I knew he like Batman's I would have
brought it up. I'd be like, yo, man, I know
you like Batman like that. Maybe he could have been like,
why do you know that? So you know, it's really

(01:50:17):
cool to meet Cool g Raps some years back, and
I had no idea that he was also a Batman fan,
So salute to Cool g Rap. That's what you find
out a lot of these guys are into this nerd stuff.
But I remember when I first started going to Columbia College,
which is in downtown Chicago, like in the late nineties,
you know, I'd be talking to somebody about, you know,
whatever was out at the time. And I do remember

(01:50:37):
specifically when rock Kim came back with the eighteenth Letter album.
It was a big deal and I was really hyped
a bottle, so I'd be like ninety seven ninety eight,
I was talking with you know, another hip hop enthusiast
like myself, and some kid had to come over and
try to, you know, overhear what we were saying. Instead
of like speaking on why he likes rock him or
why he's excited about the new album, he had to

(01:50:58):
ask me if ever listening kid rock or insane clown posseum.
It's like, why you gotta throw white white crap at me.
I don't listen to that stuff. I never did, never
was going to. And like your credentials, you didn't have
any before you stepped over to me, jumped into our conversation,
but now you might as well never come next to
me again, because if this is what you're starting off with,
this is your best, you know, presentation of your hip

(01:51:20):
hop knowledge using quotation marks because I don't consider both
of those guys even remotely close to hip hop. But
whatever you like those guys, that's cool. Although I got
beef with you. If you like kid rock, that's something's
wrong with your ears. So that was a real thing.
It was a real conversation. And you know, a couple
of times in college that have some kid come up
to me and like, wow, you like that stuff? Well
you like this guy? Like no, I don't. Why did

(01:51:42):
you think I would like him? Why are you only
picking not just bad artists but white ones. I know
what you're doing because I'm a white guy. I'm also
like that you're wrong, step off. But I do love
Back from Hell from Run deem Ce. I know that
it's kind of like the Return of the Jedi of
Run DMC album. It's kind of like with Star Wars.
It's it's the one that people kind of nitpick a

(01:52:04):
little bit and find their faults with. But I really
like Back from Hell. I remember as a kid like
digging it and thinking like, wow, they're swearing a lot
more and it sounds like a more modern version of them.
But I still like it, and I think it still
holds up. There are some songs that maybe you know,
maybe lose a little bit, but yeah, I love Back
from Hell. I think it's a very underrated run GMC
album that you just don't hear much about. And jay'son

(01:52:24):
it a couple of times. He rhymes on there, so
it's always cool to hear Jay, you know, his voice
being part of an album. So you know, I'm hyped
about Marvel Zombies salute to DJ Mrock. He sent me
a trailer for it. I cannot wait to get into that.
So speaking of zombies, let's play a drop real quick
here and I'm gonna get into my favorite zombie TV
shows slash movies. I got five of them I wrote
down here and get into that right here. Coming up

(01:52:47):
on the Infinite Banter podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:52:48):
Hey, what's going on? Everybody? Sad Man Bench m Wore
aka Oscar from the Number One Show to Walking Dead
and I'm here with my man Mark from Infinite Banter. Yeap,
better stay tuned for you to leave.

Speaker 1 (01:53:01):
That is Kirk Cassaveto telling me to get the hell
out of here, and that is exactly what I'm going
to do. But before I get out here, let's get
Zombie five. Let's get into a couple of things I
teased already, So speaking to zombies, I have seen the
first three episodes of the Darryl Dixon Book of Carol
and Darryl and whatever show. It's it's okay. I'm not
trying to spoil anything too much. But the first season

(01:53:22):
he was in France. Second season he was in France,
but he was leaving for London. And season three he
shows up in London for half an episode, then they
get on a boat, and the now they're in Spain.
The show is just it's okay. It looks really well made. Visually,
the show looks awesome, you know, with all the sets
and the colors and the way it looks. I've never

(01:53:43):
been to Spain or Paris or in these places, so
it's kind of cool to see them. I still can't
get over the fact that two of the main characters
separately are in these countries when we don't have planes,
well they have planes in this show apparently. Or boats, well,
they do have boats in this show, apparently that are
run back and forth across the Atlantic. Pretty nuts. That
being said, I mean, there's some elements of the show

(01:54:04):
that I like there's something that I'm kind of whatever
about the fact that they introduce a character that you
like and then you know he or she is not
going to make it to the end of that episode,
or at the very least not to the end of
the season. So it's all right. If you're a fan
of The Walking Dead still and you're looking for new content,
there is the Daryl Show, so go check it out.
But with Halloween coming up, I plan on doing a
Halloween episode like I do every year, so stay tuned.

(01:54:24):
I do have an idea for infinite Torture, which I
will put into that episode. There's a movie called The
Burning from the eighties that I've never seen, and as always,
you know who's I do on here, it's on to
be so I'll be able to watch it for free.
So if you want to watch that movie before I
start talking about it, go check it out. It has
like a Friday the thirteenth feel to it from what
I understand, so I can't wait to watch it because

(01:54:45):
that's my guy. I love Jason movies and things, so
I'm definitely all over that. Speaking to Jason, I tease
it already. So I went to the store the Binni's
store to be specific. Shout out to them, because they
got me this this case. It's called the Thriller pack
Doom Doom, Doom Doom. So I went into the store
and I was like, do you guys have this Angry
Orchard Jason Thriller Pack. They didn't have it. They got

(01:55:08):
it the next day. They said they had to order it,
and it showed up. They called me and said we
got it. I'm like, all right, I'm coming sod to
buy the whole case. You can't just buy one can.
I just wanted the Jason can, but you got to
buy the twelve pack. There's four flavors in there, and
of course Jason is one of them, so there's three
cans of each flavor, and so I drank each one.
They're all pretty good, but the Jason one I saved
for last, and it's called blood Orange, and when you

(01:55:30):
pour it out, it's red. And you know, there's not
a lot of high alcohol content to these drinks. I
think it's like five percent alcohol, so they barely count
as I didn't get any buzz whatsoever. It's like drinking
fruit juice with a kick. It's kind of carbonated, so
you know it works. It's hot still the Chicago area.
It's about eighty degrees, so it definitely hits a spot.
But is this something I would drink all the time.

(01:55:50):
Probably not not, not really. I just wanted it for
the novelty of the Jason can and the idea of like,
I'm holding a beverage with Jason's face on it, so
it's like, it's pretty cool. And you know, there's a
barcode on the box that you could scan and that'll
take you to see Sweet Revenge, which you can find
on YouTube. It's a fifteen minute short brings Jason back
into the fold. This is considered cannon Jason, so check

(01:56:14):
it out. A lot of people complaining about the mask
and the guy's too short or whatever. You know, it's
up to you. You go ahead and judge. I'm not
gonna get into that, but go ahead try yourself. Thriller
pack or specifically the Blood Orange Jason drink. That one's
really good. So I might as well mention the four
flavors they have that are sinful, Apple headless, pumpkin berry, Bewitched,
and as I mentioned already, the Blood Orange the Jason one.

(01:56:36):
If I had to rank these. My favorite definitely was
the Headless Pumpkin because I'm just a pumpkin dork. I
had no idea that was a white thing. By the way,
I thought I like pumpkin because it was delicious. Come
to find out, it's because my parents are white. It's
in my DNA. That joke is a little bit of
a rip off with de Chappelle. Anybody's watched his commedy
knows that I just did there. The headless Pumpkin is

(01:56:56):
definitely my favorite. I would say the Sinful Apples probably
my least favorite, and then the Jason one and the
Barry Bewitch are kind of in the middle. But I
definitely endorsed the headless Pumpkin. So if you're looking for
one of these, I say get the headless pumpkin one.
But of course, if you want that Jason can, just
so you could rep it, get that that blood orange
from Angry Orchard. Throw me some money, Angry Orchard. I'm
talking about you guys a lot on here. All right,

(01:57:18):
let's get into my top five favorite zombie things as
far as TV shows or movies. Since they talked about
it a lot with dj Emrock, thought maybe I should
write some Down. So number five is something I feel
is a very underrated show that it came out. It
was kind of the the ying and the yang for
The Walking Dead, like Walking Down, a little more serious,
little more harder, different type of show. This one kind

(01:57:40):
of had a little more loose with it. It was
not trying to be as serious. It didn't take itself seriously.
But there was some really good content on there. And
it's called z Nation was on the Sci Fi Channel.
There's actually a petition to try to bring the show back,
which I'm all for. But I love that show. The
actors on it were great, and I got to meet
Pissi Paw, who is she placed Cassandra on the show,
and I thought she was She was awesome on it

(01:58:01):
and she was really cool to meet in person. So
I just have a, you know, a place in my
heart for that show' Zenations such a crazy, way out
there kind of show. Very different from The Walking Dead,
similar at the same time, there's some similar parallels, but
I liked how they kind of went off the deep
end on some thing. So that's my number five favorite
zombie TV show movie whatever. Number four is Sean of
the Dead and you know, if you've never seen Sean

(01:58:23):
of the Dead, you definitely have to watch it. I mean,
it's one of the funnier versions of a zombie thing.
It's it's a way of doing comedy with horror at
the same time. I mean the scene when one of
them is a DJ and he's going through his record
to see which one's a throw at the zombie. You
don't want to throw the good ones at him. He's
pulling out prints and it was the Batman's soundtrack. He's
I get that one, you could wreck, so he throws
it at the zombie to try to kill him. So

(01:58:45):
the Batman's Soundtrack. I feel like it has gotten better over time.
But it's not Prince's best work, so I get it.
But one of my favorite movies. Go check out Sean
of the Dead or Hot Fuzz another movie Those guys did.
Those guys are really great. Number three is Dawn of
the Dead, so not the remake, although I do like
the remake a lot. The Zach's remake is really well done,
but the original. I'm always an original guy. Down of
the Dead. Georgia Merrill, the Godfather of this stuff, just

(01:59:07):
one of the great great movies of all time. Great
horror movies of all time, and of course one of
the best zombie movies of all time set in the
mall and just such a cool, cool film. It holds
up to this day and so many themes underneath it.
It's not just about zombies or shopping. So number two
on my list is The Walking Dead, which I know
I just said it. With the Darryl Show, it's definitely

(01:59:28):
lost some steam. It's not where it used to be.
There's some definitely some mileage off of their fastball these
you know, last five six years. But there's not a
show that I could think of other than The Wire
and maybe Dexter, where I was just all in every week,
couldn't wait for the next episode. Well watch it multiple times,
have watched all the seasons over again, have had, you know,
actors on this show come on and talk about it.

(01:59:49):
The Walking Dead just a different thing, and they had
a convention. I used to go too. So I'm all in, man,
And you know, even though the show isn't delivered for me,
I'll still watch it till they finally pulled a plug
on it. And know I kind of hate watch it now,
but whatever, man, The Walking Dead and it's heyday, Like
those first six seasons. I'll put that up against anything.
I'm sorry, that's that's just really good, really good television.

(02:00:10):
And they're breaking records left and right back then, So
salute to the Walking Dead. That's my number two, so
you should know number one, Night of Living Dead, that's
where it all started, the black and white one, not
the color version, not the remakes, and some of the
remakes are pretty decent, but the original black and white
Knight of Living Dead, which I think is public domain,
Georgia Merrow. Once again, this is where it all started.
It's just such a classic, and the music in it

(02:00:30):
is so eerie. And that end scene where you know, spoiler,
you know, when Ben is in the house by himself
and after all the chaos is hopefully over with, you
look at it, and that last scene where Ben is
still in the house and the marauders or the deputies
or whatever you call those guys are, you know, still
trying to collect the last few staggering zombies. They see

(02:00:50):
Ben in the window and they take them out, and
it's just so horrific of an ending. And you know,
then you see like the still shots of the fire
and they're putting the zombies in there and the music
playing over that it still gets me. That is day
I can't watch that movie with I'll feeling something. And
a movie has a lot of messages behind it, you know,
about people trying to assert themselves and those who are

(02:01:11):
timid and can't lead and follow somebody else's lead and
things like that. It's a really great way of kind
of showing not just about zombies, but a way of
trying to figure out how to advance in a crisis
and how to survive it. And that's really what The
Walking Dead was about too, they just took it to
other levels. But Night of Living Dead the original with
Dwayne Jones as the star I mean, and shot in

(02:01:32):
Pittsburgh for like how much money. I mean, they didn't
make any money off of this thing, and they didn't
spend any money for it either. This is a really
great movie. This is one of the all time great
horror films. And it's that time of year, so I'll
definitely be popping it into the DVD player watching it
once again. So those are my five favorite If you've
never seen z Nation, go check it out. Sean of
the Dead of course, Dawn of the Dead, and I
endorsed the remake too. The remake is really well done.

(02:01:52):
The Walking Dead and Night of the Living Dead some
great great classics in there, and I gotta watch Marvel
Zombies when it comes out. This is all connected. This
became a zombie episode. You know, it wasn't planned that way,
but that's it for me. The Infinite Banter Podcast. Check
out the show on all platforms, rate and review it.
I appreciate when everybody does that. Go on YouTube. Type
in Infinite Banter for clips from past guests, episodes and

(02:02:14):
the things and stuff, reviews of collectibles. Check out the sponsors,
superseven dot com, slash Infinite Banter podcast Rader review the
show on Apple Podcasts and good pods. Go on Spotify.
I know we didn't really endorse Spotify too much talk
with m Rock, but I do have it on there,
and you know, there's a poll question for most episodes,
and there's a Spotify playlist where I take songs from

(02:02:36):
artists that have been on this show and they're in
a one long playlist that right now lasts about twenty
four hours if you play it from start to finish.
So there's been so many but big salute to DJ Mrock.
Go check out Green Moon Rising, him and Pavlo's new
project coming out September thirtieth. Until I do another one
of these, I'm gonna go ahead and sip some more
of this Angry Orchard, hard sider, you know what. I'm
gonna open up this headless pumpkin right before I close

(02:02:58):
the show.

Speaker 2 (02:02:59):
Here.

Speaker 1 (02:03:00):
If you could hear this on the mic, that's what
you stayed for.

Speaker 2 (02:03:15):
You stayed for.

Speaker 1 (02:03:17):
Sound of a can opening and being poor. Let's go
and take a sip of this. Yeah, headless pumpkin, that's
where it's at. Go ahead and grab yourself that thriller
pack and sip on this headless pumpkin. Jason full Effect,
angry Orchard. All right, do I do another one of these?
I'm out, hey, asshole, get off the road. Being on

(02:03:47):
the infinite banner with my man mark has been a
pleasure

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