"The Doc Is In"

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's up? Everybody at Sea Doc again and you are

(00:02):
listening to the Infinite Banter podcast. Infinite Banter Podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Baby here it is another episode of the Infinite Bancer podcast.

(00:39):
What is happening? My name is Mark Cholick aka DJ Soundwave.
Really big show today. When I say big, it's because
it's long. It's a longer episode. But the show is
called Infinite Banter. We have no limitations on this thing.
I do episodes that are like thirty minutes long, like
the one most recently put out talking about my experienced

(01:00):
the fan expo here in the Chicago area Rosemont. Technically
it's not really Chicago, but that's about thirty minute episodes.
So if you want to just jump in and hear
me talk about you know, com book conventions for thirty minutes,
there you go. But if you want one where you
want to grab a drink, kick your feet up, maybe
sit out on the balcony or on the porch and
just relax and hear's some great stories this episode for you.

(01:22):
Right here, My man sea Doc is on the show,
and Sea Doc has done and been involved with so
many things that it took us a couple hours to
you know, talk about these things, so stay tuned. Sea
Doc is on the show today if it those aren't
familiar with Sea Doc. He works with Chuck D a
Public Enemy. They've done a lot of music together. He's
mixed and produced records for Public Enemy and Chuck D.

(01:44):
He has albums of his own. Who is group called
the Impossibles. He's a president of the Spit Slam label,
so a lot to talk about with Sea Doc. He's
kind of I just realized this the other day because
m Rock shout out to him. He'll be on the
next episode. He also works with Sea Doc, Chuck D
and part of you know that collective, all these guys
that work together. This is kind of like my my

(02:06):
trilogy here of artists all part of that crew. I
had Ultramax seven a couple episodes back. He's on the
podcast with Sea Doc and Mbrock's been on that podcast.
It's called Sea Doc again. So Embrock's can be on
the next episode. This episode Seed Doc a couple episodes
back was Ultramac seven. So I'm kind of doing like
a I Love trilogy because I'm a star wars NERD
even on like one of the trilogies. It's all three

(02:27):
of them together, they formed Voltron to give me three
great episodes that will be a trilogy of podcasts here.
So that's a lot of talking. You don't talk this
much before the flashback. So Sea Doc's on the show today,
Stay tuned. Coming right up. We're gonna talk to him
about working with Chuck d and all kinds of other stuff,
So stay tuned for that. As we always do, we
flash back to the last episode before we get into
the current one you're listening to. We do something a

(02:47):
little bit different with today's flashback. I actually did something
I've never done before. I am visually on a YouTube channel.
I mean, my face and everything. It's it was very
hard for me to want to do that. So my
man DJ real One, he's been on the show numerous times,
been a friend for man over twenty years, maybe longer.
I'm not good at math, man, Someone do the math.

(03:07):
I'm just duding, like ninety eight ninety nine, whatever math
that is. Anyway, he has a YouTube channel and he's
blowing up. He's doing live stream DJ sets, he's doing
travel videos. I mean, you definitely need to check him out.
Look up DJ Rewe on YouTube. But he has a
Belgian Beer and Beats series he's been doing. I'm on
episode nine. He's done nine of these. I'm on the

(03:28):
ninth episode. He came to the house here he was
in the Chicagoland area and he's like, man, let me
film something. And I was like, all right, and we
just kind of did something for thirty minutes and it
was an awesome episode. I was so glad to be
part of it. And here's a clip from that episode,
because this is my way of hyping it. So instead
of going back, oh, this is we recorded this in July,
so it is a flashback. It's not a flashback of

(03:48):
the Infinite Banter podcast. It's a flashback of a YouTube
channel you need to check out in a video you
need to watch. It's called Records, Castile and Collectibles Belgian
Beer and Beats, Episode nine, long title because you know
that's what we do on here. You'll find out later
talk about how public and we have long titles. This
one's a long title too. So it's go on YouTube
type in DJ real one and you'll find my face

(04:09):
unfortunately on there. And here's a clip of me talking
about opening up one of my toys, dolls or preferably
called collectibles. Here you go flashback on the Infinite Banter
of Podcast.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
Do you have anything because I'm looking around here and
I don't see anything open besides the ones on your video?
Do you have anything you can just randomly pull out
and show us that's open already?

Speaker 1 (04:30):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh, I mean we could do that. You want something
that's open?

Speaker 1 (04:34):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (04:34):
How about this? I'm not even seeing what this is?
Oh it is, Bruce Lee. It just happened. I have
this right here. Oh don't you don't have to open it?
I was just but I can't open it. No, No, I
already did.

Speaker 3 (04:44):
Oh okay, I was already nervous people, that is already
legendary Bruce Lee? Is that super seven?

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Yep?

Speaker 2 (04:50):
Okay superseven dot com slash Infinite banch of Podcast. I
want to get a link or do you want me
to open up something that's never been opened? No, this
has been. It's funny because you kind free done.

Speaker 1 (05:00):
I was shocked.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
I thought it wasn't open already. But that's nice. How
you already opened it and you can put it right
because you know, I wanted to play with my Bruce
Lee dough, so I did it, and there is he's
got the nung Chucks. It's from Enter the Dragon. Yeah,
you can get the remember in the movie where he
got scratched from a man with the big claws into
the movie if I remember correctly, he actually like licked

(05:22):
the blood like it was. Yeah, he went like this
like he's just like watch his badass move. He just
did that in the House of Mirrors or whatever. Yeah,
Into the Dragons classic movie. So yeah, there's there's Bruce
Lee right there. I opened it.

Speaker 3 (05:35):
So if you want to see more of DJ sound
way of opening his cool toys. Are they called toys
or figure out collectibles? Collectibles? If you want to see
more of that, you know, check them out.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
That is my appearance on DJ reel one series Belgian
Beer and Beats. It's episode nine. Go on YouTube type
in DJ reel one, subscribe to him, follow him. He's
a lot of content much there to talk about that
he does at an episode I'm in with him. There's
a lot of fun recording that. Not only do I
talk about the Bruce Lee figure which you heard in

(06:07):
that clip, but it pulled out some records that we
talk about. One of the records gets a slight callback
in my interview with Sea Doc mentioned it a little
bit in there, so little Easter egg for you, but
we talk about a lot of things. We sip on
some cast Steel, which is a Belgium beer, and just
talk about stuff. Man. It was really fun to do,
and my daughter was watching us the whole time, you know,

(06:27):
So shout out to my daughter Melody for checking out,
putting up with it, letting letting me do my nerd stuff.
So definitely check out that on YouTube. And I have
stuff on YouTube. By the way. I've been putting out
these videos where I open up toys and things, and
the latest one is a Nightmare on Elm Street Freddy
Krueger's stand that I opened up and did a video.
Force to check out Infinite Banter podcast on YouTube. You'll
see my things and stuff videos where I open up

(06:49):
toys like Freddy Thing and there's a Greg Maddox Bibblehead
that I reviewed on there. There's a Superman Funko Pop.
What else did I do? Slick Rick Super seven toy collectible,
maybe that Bruce Lee one. Eventually, I've never actually done
an official Bruce Leave video. I need to give that
one some love, man. But you'll find the Super seven
figures at super sven dot com slash Infinite Banter podcast.

(07:10):
Shout out to the sponsor. Find this show on all
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It really helps the channel grow. Follow the show on
all social media ats Infinite Banter podcasts. All right, without
further ado, let's go ahead and get into it. Se
Doc is here so much to talk about. We got

(07:32):
a lot to get into, So go ahead and grab
a drink, grab some Casteele, or get a pumpkin spice
Ltte coffee. That's what I usually do. And just check
out my conversation coming up here with the one and
only see Doc here on the Infinite Banter podcast, but
as always, someone else. He's actually worked with two as well.
The show does not begin to the one and only
to devastating my controller. DMC gets on. He says these

(07:53):
words right here and now it's official, Yo, yo, what's up?

Speaker 4 (07:56):
This is me DMC to Ki and gee, the greatest
MC in history. And right now you're listening to Infinite
Banta because we will Banta on forever because this is
the only place for all of your to ever be.

Speaker 1 (08:10):
I be Infinite Banta.

Speaker 2 (08:15):
You're tuned into the Infinite Banter podcast. I am DJ
Soundwave and I'm really hyped to bring onto the show
a guest who could hear on his own podcast. It's
called It's Sea Doc Again. He's also worked on the
recent Chuck D project Chuck D Presents Enemy Radio Radio
Army Geddon, as well as the latest Public Enemy album,
Black Sky Over the Project's Apartment twenty twenty five, and

(08:35):
as a president of the Spit Slam label. Welcome to
the Show, Producer, musician, rapper, filmmaker, the one and only
Sea Doc. What's up man?

Speaker 1 (08:43):
How are you? Sir?

Speaker 2 (08:44):
Good good? I just realized those two albums are Public
Enemy one and The Chuck Do When are really long titles.

Speaker 1 (08:51):
Chuck. Chuck has an affinity for long ass titles, considering
the last Public Enemy record was called what You're Gonna
Do When the Grid Goes Down?

Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (09:01):
And what's funny. What's also funny about that was when
he when he decided on that title, The first thing
I thought of, because I also did the art, direction
and layout for those albums, the first thing I thought
of was how the hell am I going to fit
that on the cover?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
Right, So not to mention that every public uny album
has like on the bottom, you know, the little message there,
So you got to incorporate that somehow in there.

Speaker 1 (09:26):
Yeah, the subtitle Luckily, Luckily, since I'm a I'm a
stickler and a purist of sorts for design and things
like that, they already kind of set the template for
that back in nineteen eighty seven, so I just tried
to emulate that. Yeah, it's like, okay, well that's where
that's going to be. I just got to worry about
the rest of it, so right, And I took very

(09:46):
great care when I took over the responsibilities of doing
artwork because there have been other designers over the years,
fantastic designers, and one of whom MG was the designer
before me, and he would have fun with that. He
would switch it up and do different things with the
subtitles and with the layoffs, and he was very good
at what he did. But when I came in and

(10:07):
I was like, well, I kind of want to take
it back, and so there's a visual consistency to these things.
So yeah, that was my take on it. But you
know whatever, there's no there's no right, there's no wrong,
you know.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Right man, And actually have known, you know, since it
takes the nation and the millions hold his back, that
this is going to be a thing all the time.
This is album titles are gonna be long. And then
the cover art. I mean, they've had some just amazing
covers throughout the years, and you worked on their covers
and just the feeling of them. The Chuck do you one?
You know, my first I was like led Zeppelin. I
see that Zeppelin on there, and out of my first

(10:41):
reaction to it, was there any kind of concept that
you guys all talked about in mind before coming up
with the final production on it.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Oh No, that was exactly what it was. That was
it was, Chuck said, Okay, So for for Chuck's record,
the original concept was Sergeant Pepper's. We wanted to do
rip off Sergeant Pepper, and so luckily he changed his
mind before I got into the nitty gritty work of
trying to recreate that. I kind of started it, but

(11:10):
I didn't get very far. And then he said he
hit me one day It's like, hey, I got a
I got a better idea. Let's do uh the first
led Zeppelin album. I was like, oh, that's easy.

Speaker 2 (11:20):
You know, they thank you.

Speaker 1 (11:24):
Yeah, that's great. I could do that all day. That's cool.
And uh so you know that's just the Hindenburg. So
and he said, just flip it, you know, just do
the mirror image instead of instead of uh, you know
the way they did it. Flip the flip it around.
I said, okay, yeah, easy peasy. And then there was
a there was a moment since we put that record

(11:45):
out on Deaf Jam, there was a moment where, you know,
Deaf Jam, being a major label in the Universal Music Group,
has to you know, their clearance process is tedious. And
so it did come up at one point, hey, what's
the picture and blah blah blah, we do we have
rights to use it? And I said, I said, yeah,

(12:06):
I mean it's a picture from nineteen thirty four whatever
it was in thirty six, and you know it's in
the public domain, so yes. And then I said, and
technically it's not actually it's not actually the photograph because
much like the led Zeppelin version, you know, the led
Zeppelin cover was somebody took the photo as the basis

(12:29):
and did like a point toism version of it. Oh right, yeah,
so it's not actually the photo. It's kind of a
you know, an artist rendering of the photo, so to speak.
And so I did a similar thing with it for
the Enemy Radio cover because it just didn't look right
as the as the photograph. I'm like, you know, it's
missing something. And then I went back to reference the

(12:52):
Led Zeppelin album. I said, Oh, that's what it is.
And so I did kind of like a photoshop computer
pointalized version of it and did things with the layers,
and that's where that's where the cover came from. And
then once they heard that, they were like, oh, okay,
well then we're okay.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
They just wanted to make sure, Yeah, because I'm guessing
that is a thing you have to juggle, right with
a major label versus doing independent stuff. And you've probably
dealt with this pretty much your entire music career, right,
You've got to figure out what can go through and
what can't, and what channels to go through to make
sure that this is going to, you know, be okay
and you're not gonna come back to bite you with
this album cover or the sample or whatever.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Right. So yeah, and it's so the first time I
dealt with because when I started working with Pe, it
was after they had gone independent, and so I never
really had to worry about things, you know, that nature.
And then we're also talking in the two thousands when
the industry kind of became the wild wild West with
digital and nobody knew what was gonna be want and

(13:50):
fasing out vinyl for a minute, and then vinyl came
back and all that craziness. But when we did what
You're Gonna Do When the Grid Goes Down, that was
the first time I had to work with Jam, and
that in itself was a little strange because they rushed
that album through the system, and so I think we got,
you know, a little bit of leeway on certain things

(14:12):
with that record because it was a public enemy record
and they were trying to capitalize on PE's return to
Deaf Jam and this that and the other thing, and
the timing about it, so it went through quickly. But
with this album, it was in clearance. The Trucks album
with in clearances for a year, maybe slightly longer than that,

(14:32):
but yeah, for about a year it was in clearances,
and there were a lot of changes that had to
be made to the audio, So I had to even
even simple things that I thought, well, this shouldn't be
a problem ended up becoming a problem.

Speaker 4 (14:46):
And so.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
The album didn't change. I don't want to say it
changed drastically, but there were a lot of details in
the record that changed from what I turned in originally
to what eventually came out.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
And the you know, I'm just sitting here thinking while
you're saying this. For somebody like Chuck who puts out,
you know, material that is timely, it has a message
and is you know, it's that could also be a
hindrance to because if you got to wait a year
it's something he said on a song or a track,
you know, maybe doesn't hit as hard a year later
because it's been sitting right, So that's another thing you've
got to figure out.

Speaker 1 (15:18):
Well, see, But the other thing about Chuck is the
especially the songs on the on that record were a
little more forward thinking, so.

Speaker 2 (15:29):
Right, weren't so much caught in the moment as much.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Right, Yeah, exactly. So Chuck has a tendency to be
ahead of the time, ahead of the curve, and you know,
sometimes people don't get his records right away. It takes
a while, so Luckily there was that and some of
the things he talked about still ongoing, so it kind

(15:53):
of it's still worked because a little fun fact about
that record was most of it was recorded back in
twenty twenty one, so because and and there was just
a lot the album itself was a long process, and
that part of that, A big part of that was

(16:14):
me trying to figure it out what the record was
going to be sonically right, And there were there were
even a couple of songs on there that were left
over from the archives. We just kind of filled in
the gaps. But again, they were songs that weren't of
the moment that still apply and and and it didn't

(16:38):
really matter when it came out, and you know, they
still made sense and coming out in twenty twenty five,
even though they recorded a lot of that.

Speaker 2 (16:46):
Well, I love the format of it. I said it's
to Ultramax seven when he was on a recent episodes
that when I first got it, I mean I just
bought it because Chuck t fan pub againemy whatever. I mean,
didn't even have to hear anything from it. But I
remember buying it and playing I was like, man, it's
it's almost like I'm flipping the dial to different radio stations,
and Chuck happens to be the host DJ in every station.

(17:06):
And I think that's what It goes back to what
you just said, because you've got some stuff from the
past and some other stuff, and you're kind of it's
kind of like a puzzle. You're probably putting it all
together in a way. And if I'm really literally flip
at stations, I'll hear a new song, or hear an
old song, or hear a song that's maybe not so old,
you know, so every to me in my mind, the
way you're describing it, it actually works almost better that

(17:28):
some of the stuff is not all made in the
exact same moment in timeframe. It actually works like if
that was the concept. It came to me as that
concept of like, oh, it's like listen to a bunch
of radio stations at once. This is pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (17:40):
Yeah. What's funny is maybe that was It may have
been in the back of my mind doing it something subconscious,
but I never thought about that until some of the
reviews came out and they're like, it's like, you're not
the only person to say that. So there were reviews
that said it's like flipping through different radio stations. I
was like, oh, yeah, I guess it is. I really

(18:00):
thought about that, thought about that. But when Chuck and
I finally kind of settled on what the Sonics were
gonna be, it was all because he said, I want,
you know, it's got to be like Paul's boutique in
that there are all these you know, left turns, you know,
sudden left turns is what he called it, right, And

(18:21):
you know, you're listening to a song and all of
a sudden it changes and becomes something else, and it's
something we've been kind of chasing for a while, an aesthetic.
And you know, of course the Bomb Squad were kind
of the originators of that, making public Enemy records, Chuck,
they records over the years. That's always kind of in
the back of my head, not trying to exactly mimic

(18:42):
what they did, because it's really impossible to mimic what
they did, but kind of put a new spin on that.
But this became something else. And that's when I brought
in my homie, my stroomy dj Amrock to help out
with it, because I realized suddenly that I wasn't going
to be able to separate myself from what was there
already enough and I needed somebody to come in and

(19:03):
tear it apart and then we would piece it back together.
And so so once we figured that out, that became Okay,
this is how this record is going to sound, and
uh and yeah, it just happens to be that it
sounds like you're flipping thro radios right now.

Speaker 2 (19:19):
Of course, if that was completely one eighty of what
you guys set out to do, I guess that might
be an issue. You're like, I don't that's not what
we attended at all, Like you, what are you saying?
It sounds like that. So I'm glad that my saying
that and anybody else has said that, Like you mentioned,
it's not like a turnoff or like, oh my god,
that's not what we want to do. What are you
what are you hearing? That's not what we're trying to
portray here at this record. So yeah, I'm glad that
was sort of in the idea, but not necessarily organically

(19:42):
what it was started off as.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
Yeah, when we started the record, we started the record. Chuck,
Chuck has a Chuck has a great a great knack
for hitting me up because I do a lot of things,
creative things, and so my headspace isn't always in just music,
and he has a great knack for hitting me up
when I'm not in a musical space and say, hey,

(20:05):
I need some beats. I got a song. Oh great.
So when he hit me up about you know, it
was not too long after we had put the Grid
album out. I was kind of musically exhausted at that
point because I worked on that record for a long
long time and so I wasn't really thinking about new songs.
But you know, inspiration hit Chuck and he hit me

(20:28):
up and I said, okay, So I sent him a
bunch of stuff that I threw together very quickly in
some archive stuff, and he, luckily Chuck Chuck also likes
ugly beats.

Speaker 2 (20:41):
You know, that's a good way to put I don't
think we've heard that before. Ugly beats there you go.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
Yeah, yeah, he'll take stuff I've sent him, stuff that
I'm like, oh, this is really dope, and he will
rock the hell out of this and then he doesn't
even use it, and I'm like, oh, yeah, okay, but
he'll but something else that I just threw in there
that I did in ten minutes that of sounds weird.
He'll rock that, you know, he'll write for that. I'm like,
oh okay. But so I sent him a bunch of

(21:07):
stuff and thankfully he recorded on those tracks and he
sent them back to me and I listened to it,
and I'm like, well, he's great on all this stuff,
and everything that I did is trash. I'm like, I
would not I would not put this out, you know,
not a chance. And so I sat on it for
a while because I didn't really know what to do

(21:28):
and I was working on some other things at the time,
and every once in a while he hit me up
and he's like, hey, how's the music coming, And I
said I would kind of say, oh, yeah, you know,
I'm I'm still working on it, you know this and
that when I wasn't really doing anything.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Uh oh, this is recording. By the way, see doc,
you don't want him to hear this, no, I mean
he knows it now, okay, okay, cool, he knows the
story now, can'ts out the bag? No problem. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
So so six seven months go by and one day
he asked about it, and finally I just kind of
fessed up. I'm like, you know what, bro, I said,
I'm really having a trouble. I'm really having trouble trying
to figure these figure out how this is going to sound.
And he said to me, yeah, you probably don't want
to repeat yourself, and I I kind of that made sense.
Then it wasn't really the problem I was having. But

(22:14):
then after he said it, I said, well, yeah, that
I guess that is part of the problem that I'm
having if I don't want to repeat myself. And so
almost a year went by and finally I opened the folder.
I said, I got to do something, and so I
started to work on the tracks and I was I

(22:35):
got them to a place where I was like, Okay,
I can live with this, this is cool, and mind you.
At this point, so now we're in like twenty twenty two,
I'm still thinking we're going to put this record out independently,
So I'm not thinking major label, right.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Def jamsign in the picture at all at this point.

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Yeah, right, exactly. But he hits me up and he says, hey,
at some point I think it was twenty twenty two ish,
I'm guessing I think that's it's about right. But he
hits me up and he said, hey, we might be
doing a new pe W rep. I said, oh okay.
And so at this point we had like I think
it was fourteen fourteen songs for enemy radio. Then he said,

(23:11):
take seven of those songs, and the seven of those
are going to be enemy radio. And then take the
other seven and they're going to be pe He said,
I don't care what songs, you just do that. It's
up to you. I said, okay. So I took seven
of the songs, I set them aside, and and you know,
I split them up. And then about maybe a couple

(23:32):
of days later, I got a call from his management
and they said, okay, what are you working on. I said, well,
I you know, I've got the enemy radio joints and
I got the public enemy songs. And they said, well,
we need the public enemy songs pronto. I said, okay,
I will focus on that. And then a week later
I got a call back from management and they said, okay,

(23:53):
stop working on the public enemy songs. Work the man.

Speaker 2 (23:57):
So you're just like spitting plates and you're just running
around and yeah, oh.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Okay, and they said yeah. And it was just it
was just chuck and flave were What it came down
to was deaf jam still wanted to work with them,
but Flavor wanted to do other things, and so Flavor
didn't necessarily want to go back to Deaf Jam. He
wanted to explore some other options. So, uh since, but
Chuck was like, well, since def Jam is gonna you know,

(24:24):
is willing to work with us. Still, he said, I'll
take the record there, And so they wanted a Chuck
D solo record. Chuck didn't really want to do a
solo record. It started out as a Chuck D album.
We were going to call it No Country for Old Men.
That was the.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, and there.

Speaker 1 (24:41):
Was I actually did a mock up of artwork. He
did a photo shoot in the whole nine yards and
so there was actually a an album cover that will
never be used. Chuck immediately, you know, eventually said hey,
I want this to be Enemy Radio. And we had
already done an enemy Radio record in twenty twenty called
Loud Is Not Enough that we put out on on
Spitzlam and it was Chuck and DJ Lord and an

(25:05):
MC named Jahi from the Bay Area and the S
one W's and they had done a little bit of
touring in Europe under that Monkor. They toured with Dla
Soul and Wu Tang Clan and and so we put
out a record called Loud Is Not Enough. But shortly
after that that record came out Jah he moved on
to other things, and Lord obviously went with Cypress Hill

(25:29):
and Full Time. And so I said to Chuck when
he said let's make it an Enemy Radio record, I said,
what is this? You know, what is it going to be? Then?
And he said, well, why don't we just bring in
Spitzlam artists to fill in the gaps. And so I
was great with that because my original plan for Enemy
Radio that's what I wanted it to be. So I said, okay, so.

Speaker 2 (25:51):
We're back kind of coming into Yeah, it's coming into
the fold now.

Speaker 1 (25:54):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, I said, because when he originally the
original Enemy Radio project were songs that he wrote for
the group Profits of Break, and so there was going
to be a second Profits of Rage album and Chuck
took the initiative to write a bunch of songs for it.
And as we all know that that record never really
came to fruition and the group split up. So when

(26:16):
that happens, I remember he called me and sometime in
twenty nineteen we had done his his solo album, Celebration
of Ignorance, and he said, look, I got these songs
that I recorded demos for pretty polished demos, and he
said this for the second Profits album. He said, if
that doesn't happen, we got to do some I'm not

(26:38):
wasting these songs. We're going to do something with them.
I said, okay, that's fine, and so Profits broke up
and in a day later call me. He goes, yeah,
so I guess I'll be sending you these songs. I said, okay, sure,
and I and they and they were written with the
idea that they were going to be Profits of Rage songs.

(26:59):
So a lot of them were just one verse or
a verse and a half that you know, be Real
was going to fill in the rest. So there was
all this open space, and so I said, well, we
could get the Spitzlam artists on here, you know, or
guest artists. He said, well, I'm gonna bring JOCKI in
and then Lord it will be on it obviously, and
we'll go from there. I said, okay, that's fine, but

(27:21):
for this new record, now we're back to the original idea.
And so I started calling Spitzlam artists and calling it
other favors here and there, and to put this record together.
And so I got it to a place where I
was I was cool with it. And then that's when
he called me and said, you know, before I even
turned it into him, he said, you know, I really

(27:44):
need we need the left turns, the sudden left turns
for this, like Paul's boutique, DJ Shadow or something like that.
And I'm like, wow, okay, that that's going to make
this record completely different, right, And and so I was
trying to think, you know, what am I going to
do with this? M Rock shout out to DJ m
Rock had sent me a record he did for me

(28:06):
to check out. He wanted me to hear it. So
it was like a drum end bass record, but it
was also he incorporated elements of Pirate UK Pirate Radio
into it, and that was part of the title and
raved to the Rhythm or the Pirate Radio version or
something like that it was called. And I'm driving to
the grocery store one day, you know, after talking to Chuck,

(28:27):
thinking how the hell am I going to do this
with this record? I was really at an m pass
because I was so close to it. I didn't know
what else to do with it? And so I said, oh,
you know what, Amrock sent me that record. I'm going
to check it out. So I put it on and
I immediately knew you got it. What I had to do, yeah,
And that was I called m ROC and I said, yo,

(28:49):
I said, listen, I just listen to your new record.
It's amazing. And I said, I need your help, and
he goes, okay with what I said. I'm working on
Chuck's new record and I need you. I said, I
want to send you the songs. I want you to
tear them apart and do whatever the hell you want
to them and then put it back and then we'll
put it back together. And he said really, I said yes,

(29:12):
and he said, are you sure, I said, am Rock,
I said, if you do anything that I don't like,
it doesn't matter because the song's already there, Like I
can always go back to the original version. I said,
but I'm too close to it, and Chuck really wants
this sonic chaos that I don't know how to get
there right now because I've been messing with these songs
for two years now. And he said okay, he said,

(29:35):
he said, well let's try it. So I send him
a song. I send him the stems for a song,
and he sent it back, he said I and I
mixed it and I was like, this is great, but
pushed it further, go further, and he said okay. So
he did another pass at it and it got crazier
and I was like, yeah, that's it. I said, I'm
gonna say, yeah, another song. He said okay. And so

(29:55):
that's basically how the record ended up sounding like it does.
It was it was him just ripping apart everything that
I did.

Speaker 2 (30:03):
It sounds like me like hip hop gps because you're
just like all these different off ramps and you know,
back on again and off again. It's just crazy.

Speaker 1 (30:11):
Yeah. And I shouldn't say he ripped apart everything, but
he was Luckily he didn't have the same attachment to
these things and was able to bring his ideas into it.
And he was the one that brought in all the crazy.
Like you know, certain songs have like drops where just
something comes in way out of left field, and that
has it might not even be the same tempo as

(30:35):
what the song is a right there, you know. That
was am rock and I was like, wow, that's great.
I didn't think of that, and and so he really
kind of brought a final pass you know, slash polish
h slash, you know, bit of insanity to the record
that that I couldn't get to. And so I got

(30:56):
to give him mad props. Yeah, because he really made it,
brought that final aesthetic that makes the record what it is.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Man. And you know you brought up Paul's Boutique, which
is one of my favorite albums ever made. And that yeah,
that let bee Boy Bullebasse at the end where it's
like twelve songs all kind of crammed together and you
know there's no real transition between them. So now that
you say that, I'm really getting a more feel for,
like behind the curtain of how you guys put this
thing together. And it's almost more chaotic because, like you said,
there's the the in betweens that there are transitions, that's

(31:25):
the thing, but some of them are abrupt and they're
not smooth. I mean, right, wow, And what's that like
when you're doing because you know you and I'm Rock
are not working on this. Is Chuck involved in this
part of it? Or is it more just he's letting
you guys do your thing and he'll you'll hear when
you guys say it's ready.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
In this case, it was we were letting us. He
let us do our thing. He gets hands on on
certain songs, like if he has a if he has
a specific idea. There was a song on the First
Enemy radio record called food Food is a machine Gun
or food as a machine Gun, and I always get
the title wrong. And he was very specific about that,

(32:06):
you know. He sent me the sample and he said
it's got to be this, and then I put a
one version of that song. I put a brake in
it that I really loved, I was really proud of,
and he goes, now take that out of there. It's
got to be a group.

Speaker 2 (32:20):
I got it.

Speaker 1 (32:21):
Oh okay, all right. So I was like, shit, okay.
But but with this record, you know, and that's the
funny part about it, was he hadn't heard it, since
he hadn't heard the songs since twenty twenty one, since
he turned him in.

Speaker 2 (32:37):
Right time is on, So this is all kind of
like it's like old but new, right to say.

Speaker 1 (32:41):
Yeah exactly. And so when I finally sent him the record,
he was just gobsmacked, you know, he was so blown
away by it. He goes, he goes this. He goes, yo, man,
this shit is incredible. He goes, this is one of
the most amazing records I'd ever heard, or you know,
I've ever heard. And I was like, really, he goes, yo, man,

(33:02):
and he uh, he came to Pittsburgh. Yeah, I live
outside of Pittsburgh, and he was doing a lecture here
in town. And and he was a special guest at
the Pirates game. He threw out the first pitch and
it was very cool. So I went downtown and met
him and we went to the game and and uh
so we went to lunch afterwards, and he was he

(33:24):
and Pop Diesel, one of the S one W's, and
you know, the three of us were having lunch and
Chuck said, yeah, I played the album for Pops, and
Pops looked at me and he goes, yo, man, he goes,
I don't know what you were on, but that albums crazy.

Speaker 2 (33:37):
That's great.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
I said, thank you, and and Chuck said to me,
like the greatest compliment I've ever got in my life
for anything, I think. He said, you made the record
that I've always wanted to make. And I kind of
looked at him and immediately thought yo, man, you made

(33:58):
Fight the Power. What do you talk, right? You know,
it's like you made you made Nations, you made Fear
of a Black Planet. Fear of a Black Planet is
probably my favorite album ever. So I was kind of
like looking at him, like seriously, and he said, and
then he explained it, and he said, I've always had
these sounds in my head that no producer has been
able to translate to a record. Yeah, he said, the

(34:20):
Bomb Squad was close, you know, that's why those records
are the way they are. He goes, but I've I've
always heard these songs where, you know, because you got
to remember that Chuck got his start in radio. He
wanted to be a radio that's what he wanted to do.
And so the fact that we were kind of emulating

(34:42):
that then it kind of made sense. It was like,
oh okay, And like you said, and like other people
have said that, it's like going through the dial on
a radio station and.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
The theater of the mind aspect, and that's what he
probably grew up with. I mean, he was said, and
it's got to be hard too, because he has this idea,
he has these sounds and his head. How do you
relay them? To a producer or someone who's helping you
put this stuff. It's it's not easy. I'm sure that's
something you as a producer dealt with many times. Everybody's
come in from a different point of view, right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
Of course it's it's it's and Chuck is Chuck is
a is such a great visionary and an idea guy.
But occasionally, I shouldn't even say occasionally, and this is
not a bad thing. He's so creative that when he
is pitching ideas or giving creative direction, he's creative in

(35:31):
his creative direction. So it's almost like half the time
I'm kind of like, huh, what what do you what.

Speaker 2 (35:38):
Do you mean?

Speaker 1 (35:38):
And then I asked him to explain it. He goes, yeah,
I don't know, Doc. I'm like, oh, okay, so I
just got to figure this out on my own, I guess. Great.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
And to think that after all the years that he's
been putting out you know, revolutionary music and Hall of
Fame and all that, and twenty twenty five, you know
you're hearing this compliments, right, It's like, man, now, now
this is the album that you were wanting to make
your whole life.

Speaker 1 (36:01):
This is crazy, right, Yeah, man, I was so I
was so surprised by that. I mean, I knew he
liked the record, because Chuck famously does not listen to
his records. But I shouldn't say he doesn't listen to them,
because he listens to them to try to learn them

(36:22):
and stuff, but he he doesn't always like listening to them.
Once he finishes a song, he kind of moves on.
And I'm the same way, So I totally get that.
It's like, once I finished a project, I've listened to
it so much, I don't want to hear it anymore.
You know the Grid album, I don't. I haven't listened
to it since I signed off on the test presses.

(36:45):
Since I think the last time I listened to that
album full was when I got the vinyl test presses
and I signed off on it. I think that was
the last time I heard it, and I haven't wanted
to hear it. And he actually called me last week
and said, hey, I listened to Grid's pretty good record. Yeah,
I haven't heard it for five years.

Speaker 2 (37:02):
By the way, State of the Union is a classic.
Just like to put that out there, stated the Union
that track. I played that song to death when that
came out.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
Oh yeah, the premos, the premo.

Speaker 2 (37:11):
Oh I got Prima and Lord doing this thing and
the and the video was great, the black and white
thank you.

Speaker 1 (37:16):
That was So we did that video in the middle
of COVID and yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
And that's I think that's why I really resonated, because
we're all feeling a certain way about I don't want
to get all political, and you know, everything's going on
in the news and everything. It's like that song really
really stuck for It was like a soundtrack for that
that somewhere there.

Speaker 1 (37:31):
Yeah, man, yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. It was, it was,
it was. It was cool. That was the first time
I got to meet DJ Premiere and and we shot
we shot his stuff at his studio headquarters studio in
New York and yeah, it was Smack gabb in the
middle of COVID. So yeah, it was. It was. It
was strange because I would go, I would fly, you know,

(37:53):
to these airports and they were damn near empty. It
was just really weird and very range. And then uh
uh you know, then we shot the rest of it,
the stuff with Flavor out in l A And shout
out to my buddy Chris Nab who let us use
his studio space out there where they shoot a lot

(38:15):
of music videos and some films and stuff, and he
let us use his spot Gratis because he was a
huge Pe fan, and yeah, so that's where that's where
we shot that stuff. And man, yeah, it was it
was cool. It was uh and and interesting, but it
was that You're right, it was such a weird time
that it was.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
A very very necessary record at that time.

Speaker 1 (38:35):
I think, yeah, well, no, thank you, thank you for
saying that. Yeah, and that was the thing. That was
another thing too, that we did that before the Deaf
Jam deal happened, So we didn't even know how we
were going to put that record out when we when
stated the Union dropped as a single, they put that
out independently actually, and then the Deaf Jam deal happened,
and so then it was a mad dash to finish

(38:58):
the record and everything together.

Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeah, And I remember I geeked out when an album
came out because a dream I've always wanted was run
DMCBC boys and Pe on the same song. I mean,
it's not quite a song, you know, as far as
like all I'm having verses, but man, it was just
so cool to hear all those guys on one track.

Speaker 1 (39:15):
I will tell you this too. Ellll was supposed to
be on it.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
Get out all right, I'm gonna I gotta hang up
the phone now. That was supposed to be on here too.
Nick to tell me Rock Cam and Kane to be
on there. That's awesome, man.

Speaker 1 (39:27):
He uh, he just didn't have time. He didn't have
time in his schedule.

Speaker 2 (39:30):
I think it was something like that, just like my
childhood on one song. If you're you're talking right now,
this is just crazy. This is odd.

Speaker 1 (39:37):
No man, you so let me let me tell you
about that record real quick. Yeah, you want to hear
about crazy. We had a so we had a phone
meeting and because the record. Okay, so the album started
out as an album called Nothing as Quick in the
Desert and we recorded it in twenty seventeen. And I

(40:02):
that's a crazy You went a short version of the story.

Speaker 2 (40:05):
The longer I'll put it this, So whatever you're more
comfortable saying, no, I don't.

Speaker 1 (40:10):
It doesn't matter. It's just detail on it.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
If you yeah, you know, the show is called Infinite Banter.
You know, I definitely don't like to constrict so, but
if if you'd rather tell the shorter version. I won't
hold you back from that either.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
No, no, no, it doesn't matter, but I'll try to
give you a quick background that gotcha stand out an
email as he often does, about hey, we're doing a
new public Enemy record, send some beats, right, and he
sent it out to a bunch of producers that he
had worked with and you know, had done things and
YadA YadA. So I was busy, like he sent it

(40:43):
out on a Tuesday, he sent out this email, text
message whatever it was, and I was busy doing something else.
And on Wednesday he said, okay, please don't send any
more beats. I got a ton and I was like,
oh damn. You know, I felt like I missed out.
I'm like a shit, you know. So Okay, So that Friday,

(41:06):
I had some time and I'm like, you know what,
I'm gonna do something anyway, right, I'm gonna I'll send
him something. And I made a track that ended up
becoming Beat Them All and the song Beat Them All,
and so I sent it to him, and I sent
him a text message and I said, uh, hey, bro, sorry,

(41:27):
I didn't get any joints in for the record, but
I just sent you one. If you have time. Check
it out. If you can use it, use it. If not,
no big deal. I understand. And so he sent me
a text and he said, yeah, I got I got
over one hundred beats doc. You know, I'm pretty good.
And I was like, okay, cool, I get it. I understand.
Twenty minutes later, I'm I'm in the car taking my

(41:52):
son to baseball practice and he calls me and he goes, Yo.
I'm like, what's up. And he goes, Yo, you nailed it.
He goes, that's the sound I want for the record.
He goes, whatever you did there, I need more of that.

Speaker 2 (42:10):
And I was like, it was like disregarding all those
emails of the other beats yeah, And I'm.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
Like, I'm like okay, and now I'm trying to think
what did I do because I'm not quite sure what
I did. And and so, by by virtue of that,
so I sent him, you know, a couple more joints,
and by virtue of that, I became in charge of
the record of putting the record together. So so we

(42:36):
did this album called Nothing Is Quick in the Desert,
and the idea was that we were going to release
it as a band Camp exclusive, which makes you know.
Now you understand the the Black Sky record, which was
a band Camp exclusive, So this was the first time
we did it. It was going to be a band
Camp exclusive for like a week and then we're going
to pull it down and then we're going to put

(42:57):
it out independently through you know, traditional means vinyl and
CD and whatever else. And we put it up for
a week and we were going to move on to
the next phase. And there was I can't nothing I
can really discuss, but there were some legal issues with

(43:18):
the business arrangement at the time, Chuck's business, some of
Chuck's businesses and companies. He had some issues there and
one of them was dissolving. And so the record got
caught in this in the middle of that and it
got stopped. So we never did vinyl, we never did ced,
it never came out anywhere else, and it became this

(43:41):
you know, lost public Enemy record for Yeah for like
three years. And and by the way, one of the
songs that we recorded for that record that never got
finished or partially recorded, i should say, was here we
Are Heard, which is on the Enemy radio record.

Speaker 2 (43:58):
So did get life, but eventually, but not on the
album was intended for Okay.

Speaker 1 (44:04):
Yeah, exactly, and so that album got stuck in limbo
and then I think it was twenty yeah, it was
twenty eighteen. Chuck called me up and he said, hey,
I'm starting this new label called Spit Slam, which was
a combination of his first original label, Slam Jams, and
then he had Spit Digital, which was in between the two.

(44:24):
And so Spit Digital was the company that was dissolving
and breaking up and they're separating and all this stuff.
So that was the that was the legal mess there.
So he said I'm starting this new label, Spit Digital.
I said, okay, cool, and he goes, I want you
to run it for me, and I said, I don't
know how to run a record label, Chuck, I haven't
the first clue of what And he said, you'll figure

(44:47):
it out, don't worry about it, just have fun with it.

Speaker 2 (44:50):
That sounds crazy, but you know, maybe gets you excited
because he's like, he's got this faith in me that
he can do this. But it's also scary at the
same time, you know.

Speaker 1 (44:58):
It was it was exactly that. And and that's the
other thing too. It's like I can't say no, you know,
I can't say no to Chuck d Not only has
he given me all these amazing opportunities, and I've gone
places with PE that I never would have gotten to
go had I just been doing whatever I was doing.
You know, it's publicating is my favorite group of all time.

(45:18):
Like they were the ones that when I got into
hip hop, it was pe man like they quickly established
themselves and I'm talking eighty eight, eighty nine to ninety, right,
and they were the biggest group.

Speaker 2 (45:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yeah, they were the biggest group on the planet. You know,
people forget this, you know, or I don't know, people
were rewriting history for whatever dumb reason. But they were
the biggest group on the planet Earth, hands down, the
biggest hip hop group on the planet Earth. So of
course I'm gonna say yes. And I went into it like, Okay,
I don't know what I'm doing, but we'll figure it out.

(45:52):
And I and I'm still figuring it out whatever. But
so we started spit slam and putting out records and
put out his record, a DJ Lord record, Daddy O Record,
and I started to build up the label from there.
Well in twenty twenty, when the legal stuff started to
resolve itself and Flavor was talking about, hey, you know,

(46:16):
let's do a record. Nothing. It was as quick and
the desert was there, so it was just like okay,
you know, Chuck said, I want to add some songs,
revamp it. We'll add some songs and we'll put this
record out. And so that was the original plan. But
adding songs to a record that was already done was
going to make that record very long. And then Flavor said, well,

(46:37):
I don't really want to do it independently this time.
I'd rather, you know, try to get back into the
major system. And Chuck was like okay, and then deaf
Jam they made a deal with deaf Jam. Well, deaf
Jam said, and this I learned something here. The definition
of what a single album and a double album has
changed over the year. So when it was a vinyl

(46:58):
standard way back in the day, a double album was
obviously two records, right, correct, And but when CDs became
the dominant format in the nineties, a double record was
two CD so you could get away with a single
record being eighty minutes long. And but now and then

(47:21):
in the digital age, it was the same thing. But
now where they have they've gone back to a vinyl standard.
Which I didn't know. And so a double record is
now back to two pieces of vinyl, and so a
single record is one piece of vinyl. And the maximum
runtime for a single piece of vinyl is like forty
two minutes or forty four minutes something like that. Right, So,

(47:41):
all of a sudden, we had too many songs, and
so we had to go in and cut songs. And
you know, obviously State of the Union had to be
on there because that was the new song and it
was the single, and so that, you know, so we
had to cut songs, and I had to edit songs
down that we were going to keep so that we
could make the runtime and then deaf Jam. Once that
deal was made, they came to us and they said, well,

(48:03):
you already technically released Nothing is Quick in the Desert,
so we don't want to release. We don't want to
do that, and so we need a new name. And
so I was on a conference call and you know,
Chuck's manager said, what are we gonna call the record?
They don't want to call it Nothing as Quick in
the Desert, and he just blurted it out. He said,

(48:27):
what's he gonna do when the grid goes down? I
was like, okay, I guess that's the new record. And
then and then he said, because there was a there
was a there was a title track on Nothing as
Quick in the Desert, and so that was gone. We
had to lose that. So then we needed He's like, well,
we need a new title track or a title related track.

(48:48):
So he said, uh, all right, well I'm gonna write
a new song called Grid. Doc sent me some beats. Okay,
you know.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
And didn't would be real on it. I played the
album right then it's an animated video for it, right.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, and then we shot it. We shot a video
for Grid too, okay yeah. And and then then I
got the call that he said, hey, I'm gonna get
George Clinton on the record. And I was like really,
and he's like, yeah, Uncle George, to talk to Uncle George.
He's gonna send us some stuff. I was like okay,
and uh and then he said Then I got the
call He's like, yeah, I'm gotta get Cypress Hill on

(49:22):
the record too. I'm like, stop it, man.

Speaker 2 (49:24):
This thing is growing to where it's something else.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
Now. I'm like, yo, man, seriously, I get to produce
a record with George Clinton and Cyprus. So so so.
But also in that conversation the title Janie Conversation or
one of the conference calls, somebody brought up, hey, you know,
we're thinking of since it's an anniversary record, you know,

(49:48):
we're thinking of remaking Public Enemy number one, you know,
and it's the return to Deaf jam And I was
and Chuck said, yeah, I'm gonna try to get I'm
trying to get wrong. I'm gonna try to get d
m C. I'll reach out to to Adam and Mike
and I'll reach out to ll and uh. And I
got excited as a fan. I was like, you, bro,

(50:10):
I'm like excited, Yeah, man, that's crazy. That's right on
a remake of Public Enemy Number one. And I'm like,
I can't I'm thinking to myself, I can't wait to
hear this record, right, That's what I'm thinking to myself.

Speaker 2 (50:23):
And to put in a context, you know, run DMC
and the BC Boys aren't recording anymore. So it's like
that there's another obstacle there. It's like I didn't even
know those guys would be willing to do something as
a as a unit, right, So that's another aspect another
And I'm hearing that like whoa.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Yeah, and and and you know it takes it takes
Chuck D and Public Enemy to pull those things off.
So so what so right before the call ends, he goes, uh,
all right, Doc, well send me the send me the
pe number one be when you get it done, and
then it it like hits it hits me, like, oh god,
I have to do this. I'm I'm like, I'm I

(51:00):
can't wait to hear this record. And then I'm not
even thinking I've got to do it.

Speaker 2 (51:03):
You're gonna hear it all right, You're gonna be part
of it.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
I'm like, I'm like, I'm like, wow, okay, this is it. Yeah,
this is crazy. So I'm like, so I played off.
I'm like, yeah, sure, okay, bro, no problem, and I
hang up and I'm like, oh my god, I gotta
I have to remake Public Enemy number one with these
guys on it. And so so yeah, that that in it,
in and of itself, was crazy. And and Adam and

(51:28):
Mike didn't want to record per se. They didn't want
to rhyme per se, which we understood, and and so
we were just like we'll take whatever we can get
from them. And luckily Ron and D came through. You know,
I had done a couple of things with d before,
so that was you know, these always great anytime Chuck

(51:49):
needs something, Darryl is there, you know.

Speaker 2 (51:52):
Yeah, over the year.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah, back and yeah and back and forth. Right, it's
a vice versa thing, and so so we were actually
really thrilled to get on and Run came through and
just killed it.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
It was like, wow, I remember hearing it. I was like, man,
this is this is vintage Run right here. I remember
at that moment I played the sea I had played
in the car sold CD player in the car by
the way, Yeah, so do I that's great. So I
remember playing it like wow. And the BC Boys people
are not familiar to song. It's like having like a
phone conversation about the first time they heard you know,
pubably gave me number one and hearing that.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, which was great. That was so that
was so dope that they did that. And yeah, Ll
was supposed to be on it, but ut timing and
scheduling just did not permit. So but whatever, you know,
we got it.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
There are all these there are all these references to
deaf Jam and it and and Easter eggs, so to
speak and and and yeah, and and that record was
it was. It was crazy and was I'm honored to
be involved in in that entire album. Even though I
basically did that album. I worked on that album twice
because I did it as Desert and then I had
to do it again as Grid, And yeah, I just

(52:58):
I there was a very compressed amount of time. Once
the Deft Dam deal was made. They were like, we
want to get this out as soon as possible, and
they're a major label, and there was paperwork and all
this stuff, and it was a it was a rough
couple of months there getting it all together, but yeah,
it was. It was. It was also just super cool
because the week it was, the week the record was

(53:19):
scheduled to come out, they flew me out to La
and we shot the Grid video and and then I
was supposed to come home on that Wednesday. The album
was supposed to come out Friday, and I was supposed
to come home on Wednesday, and Chuck's manager called me.
Shout out to Lori Bulla and she said, hey, can
you stick around till the end of the week. And

(53:40):
I said, my wife's gonna kill me, but yeah, I
said why And she goes, well, she said, the cole
Bet Show wants to have pe On to perform grid
and and so they since since that shows done in
New York or whatever, and and call all the COVID
stuff was in place. It was kind of crazy. He said,
we're going to do it, I know, you know, we're

(54:01):
gonna remotely do it, so to speak or whatever. And
she said, and I'm gonna get you the gig directing
that televised performance or whatever. And I was like, shit, okay, well, yeah,
I'm staying around. Then I had to call my wife
and like, hey.

Speaker 2 (54:16):
I'm.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, I gotta stay out in LA. But it's for
a really good reason. She goes, you know, and then
I told her and she was like, yeah, yeah, I
guess you got to. I'm like, yeah, I kind of do. So,
so it was it was crazy because I didn't have
a I was only supposed to be there till Wednesday,
and Chuck said, we'll just come out to the house.

(54:39):
You stay at the house with me, and so I
got to hang out with him on you know, when
the album came out. He was doing press all day,
but I ran down to the record store and and
he's like, see if they got any CDs, and so
I went down there and they did and brought CDs
back to the house, and yeah, we were looking at
the art work and everything that, you know, and yeah,

(55:00):
it was it was cool that I had done, but
it was I had done the artwork, but I had
only seen it digitally up to that point. So it
was actually nice to see it in the booklet.

Speaker 2 (55:07):
You know, that's got to be something that I don't
want to overlook. I mean, you worked on something and
to walk into a record store and to see it,
you know, CDVINY whatever format, and just to hold it
in your hand, I mean, yeah, you go back to
the you know, your younger self, maybe you know, forty
years ago, thirty five years or whatever, and you're like,
you know, it's not even something you even dreamed about,

(55:27):
because it's not something that's you know, tangible, right, It's
just like it's just the thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Yeah. So when when I was a kid, and uh,
and I got really into rap music and and hip
hop and stuff, and I just wanted to be involved.
You know, I didn't know what I was doing, but
I was thought, I'm not really good. I can't really
sing very well, but I could probably wrap, you know,
and that's what I thought of. And I wanted to
be involved in recording music. And I was doing film

(55:53):
stuff too, so there was that, but I just I
just loved that stuff so much that I'm like, I,
I would love to be involved in this. And so
we would make tapes and make you know, we'd take
people's instrumentals and rhyme over them and make little tapes
and I would do the artwork and stuff for it.
And you know, I guess I was playing record label
back then, but you know, and sell them to you know,

(56:16):
kids at school and stuff like that. And then I
kind of, you know, I met a guy that was
really doing music, you know, like one of the most
talented people I've ever met. His name is Sean Sean Dwyer.
He went by d LX, and he was a producer
and MC. He's a DJ, and he could cut and
scratch and and for whatever reason, he saw something in me.

(56:37):
He's like, yo, man, I'll work with you. Yeah, He's like,
you know, you're better than Vanilla Ice.

Speaker 2 (56:41):
I remember, Oh, they just woarm my heart saying that.
Yeah that's it.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, Like I'm like, I guess that's something I'm like, okay,
I'm better than Vanilla Ice. I'm like, I wasn't. I
knew I wasn't as dope as he was, but because
because he was as ill at like everything. But he
taught me a lot.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
And and that shows you the timeline, by the way,
better realize it. Everybody should. Probably it's like nineteen ninety
ninety one era.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
Yeah, yep. So so it was through Sean that I
recorded my first professional demo in a in a twenty
four track studio, you know, when I got that experience
through him, and you know, nothing ever came of the demo.
But it also it also made me think more take

(57:27):
the music thing more seriously because I was kind of like,
I did it for fun and it was kind of
jokey a little bit, you know, we would goof off
and stuff. But Sean was the one that made me
really like think about actually doing something with it. And
then so I stayed at it and I bought my
own equipment. You know, I bought a four track and
I bought a digital sampler, and I kept making music

(57:48):
off and on through the years. That actually led me
to you know, cooking up with Chuck Deep because being
a public enemy fan all my life and getting to
a point where he was one of the very early
adopters of getting in on the internet and using email.

Speaker 2 (58:08):
And yeah, man, I remember when There's a Poison going
on came out. Yeah, I remember. The only time I
ever met Chuck in person was they were doing a
show here at the House of Blues in Chicago. I
was like ninety nine, I want to say when that
album came out, and I remember, like it came out
on the internet, and I was just like, I don't
know how to buy an album that way. I don't
know what that means, you know what I mean, So right,

(58:31):
and I ended up buying it like Sam Goodie or
Coked whatever. Fast forward to like they're doing their show
here and he was at the Redfish and I went
in there and to say hi, doing me signed something
for me. He was like one of my favorite encounters
of all time. But he asked me, I'll never forget this.
He asked me, did you get the album? And I
felt kind of disappointed at answering. So he was telling him, like,
I bought it at a store, like I know he
wanted me. I know he was pushing it for the

(58:52):
internet and I don't think he cared how I got it.
He was just happy I got and I liked it.
But I was I felt like I failed as a
fan because I didn't do the way he was trying
to be innovative, head his body at you know, Sam
Goodie or whatever. But he was like he was ahead
of his time with a lot of that stuff. Ford thinking,
like you said earlier.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
Yeah, crazy, that was yeah, that same that same time.
So he uh, when he did his solo album in
ninety six, the Autobiography of With the Chuck, he actually
had a he he was with Mercury Records at the time,
and they had a website and I think he had

(59:33):
an email on there. You could email him. I never
did because I didn't know what the hell I would
say to him.

Speaker 2 (59:38):
But right, even like Chris Farlane that SNL bit talking
like Paul McCarty remember you with the Beatles, Yeah exactly,
remember you were public enemy? Yeah his flaved crazy.

Speaker 1 (59:49):
Yeah, that's kind of it's kind of like that. I
was like, oh, what do you what would you say? Right?
And this was back when so I had a buddy
that I went to high school with a really good
friend of mine who got into that stuff early. He
went to college and he was always big into computers
and then he I went to visit him. At one
point he said, yeah, I'm starting this business. I'm going
to design websites. And I was like, what is a website?

(01:00:11):
And he was explaining it and he said, he goes,
he goes, I have my own server. I'm like, what
the hell is the server? And he's like and he goes, uh,
he goes, you want a website. I was like, sure, yeah, okay,
I don't know what that you know what why not?
And he gave me my first email address, and I
still use that same email address to this day. Yeah,

(01:00:34):
since nineteen ninety six, I've had the same email address.
But that's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:00:38):
Yeah, not AOL dot com. That's probably the original handle
right back then.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
That's what Yeah, that was the but mine is mine
is a very uh because his company was called Internet Expressions,
so it was I e XP dot com. So that's
what my email addresses c NB at I e XP
dot com. So I've had that, yeah, forever. But when
he sold that company, he said, one of the one

(01:01:04):
of the caveats that one of the main things when
I sold it was that you get to keep your
email address. I was like, oh, thanks, I appreciate.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Well, yeah, because just you know, those are the days
we had to remember passwords and names, yeah, and use
their names and stuff. Where now like your phone just
you just look at it and it takes you right
to everyone to go, which maybe is a little scary.
It sounds like this story. By the way, this is
like when the grid goes up. You're talking about, like
when everything is coming of age with now we take
for granted. But yeah, it was late nineties man, And

(01:01:33):
I say internet was a scary place. It was just
it was an unknown I didn't really know how to
work it and how to use it in the right way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:40):
Yo, man, I was so for for a while there,
I was checking my email maybe once or twice a
month at the library because they had a computer. You could, yeah,
you could glog on for like you know, and you
have to reserve time and stuff. And then finally I
got a computer at home, and then you know, some
rudimentary dialogue up, you know, and you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Got mail and all those things that sounded here. What
you know when we sign on and dial up, Oh god, man,
you used to do that. It's like so crazy. Now, yeah, it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:15):
Was crazy and the early days of m P threes
and and that was the other thing that was that
was one of the other things. So I don't know,
I can't confirm it for sure, and uh, you know,
I could be wrong, totally wrong, but I know I
had If I wasn't the first, I had to be
one of the first. But I was one of the
first people to collaborate with somebody else in another place

(01:02:40):
using m P three's And what it was was we
were sharing music. So the public Enemy site had a
thing called the Enemy Board, which was just a can.

Speaker 2 (01:02:50):
I remember that, Yeah, it's like a chat or something, right, Yeah, yeah,
it was a message board, right for pe fans, and
so that was a that was a daily thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
For for a lot of us. We'd go on the
Enemy Board and talk about stuff and we'd share music,
you know, because MP three is it just started, and
so people had rare pe stuff. We would share it
and def Jan tried to sue me once, and you know,
I just took stuff down or whatever. But anyway, I
was sharing. I was kind of doing my own music,

(01:03:20):
and at one point I thought, you know, if I
could send an entire song. I could send parts of
songs too, you know, that's not out of the ordinary.
And so there was this guy and he he was
doing beats and he was in the UK. I said, hey,
send me a beat. I want to try something, and
he said okay. So he sent me this beat that
he did and I recorded my vocals and I sent

(01:03:42):
my vocals back and he's like, he's like wow, because
I didn't even think about doing this. I'm like, yeah, right,
we could collaborate like this. And so we did the
He mixed the song and then he finished it and
we shared it on the Enemy board. And when Chuck
found out about it, he was like, yo, that's crazy.
See you know, yeah, you know you can collabse and

(01:04:02):
and then and it started this thing. And so then
somebody said, somebody on the Enemy board said, hey, ask Chuck,
would you ever collaborate with Sea Doc? And I was
out of town at the time, so I wasn't on online.
You know, this is obviously way before smartphones. And uh.
I was in Dayton, Ohio. And one of the other
Enemy Board guys, Marcus Jay, my buddy Marcus. Before I

(01:04:23):
left to come home, I met him for dinner and
he said, hey, did you see Chuck wants to collaborate
with you? And I was like, what are you talking about?
And he goes, yeah, I was on the enemy board.
He said, yeah, I'd love to collaborate with Sea Doc.
I was like, are you serious and and he said yeah.
And so when I finally got home, like you know,
I didn't know whether, I didn't know what to think.
But when I finally got home, I saw the message

(01:04:44):
and I was like, holy shit. And so there was
another producer on, you know, there was it was on
the enemy board, and he was he just like, I'll
send you guys a beat. I'll take it upon myself
and he uh, send you guys beat. And so I
rope to some some of the other enemy board people
in it because I was kind of terrified of being
on a song with rhyming on a song with Chuck
D because you know, I was okay, you know, I

(01:05:08):
was an okay MC maybe at best at that point
in time. And so we did this song that Chuck
called we Don't Need You, and it was basically because
that's when they had gone independent at that point, and
it said we don't we don't need the major record
labels anymore to make music. We can. We can do
it ourselves and put it out. We have technology to

(01:05:28):
do this now. And it was building on the idea
that Harry Allen was kind of, you know, obtruthly talking
about on the Music and Our Message album, Harry Allen's
Interactive Super Highway Call and Phone Call and Chuck d
or whatever. Right, that was the beginnings of all that technology.
They were talking about it in ninety four, but it

(01:05:50):
took a few years for it to come to fruition.
And but this was the time. And so Chuck was
also starting his slam Jams label, which was going to
be an online label where you could download MP three
songs and things like that. And we did this track
all we Don't Need You, and he called us the
Impossibles and that, and after we did the first song,

(01:06:12):
he said he called me at one point and he said, hey,
I got an idea. He said, why don't you take
this Impossibles idea and run and you can do music
for a slam Jams. We'll put it out on slam Jams,
he said, and you produce the songs and whoever you
want to be on the records, you can you know,
because obviously you can get vocals from anybody anywhere in
the world, and you guys can be the world's first

(01:06:34):
virtual rap. I was like crazy, I said, Okay, there
it is.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
Since me Sea Doc went a little bit longer with
this interview, I wanted to break it up a bit
and play one of his songs because he's done a
lot of music over the years, and I wanted to
pick something that I think reflex some of the work
he's done and some of the conversation we had. So
he has a lot of music on band camp. Go
ahead and check out The Impossibles, that's his crew. They
have a lot of albums on there you could listen

(01:07:01):
to and definitely go cop them, get the CDs and
the cassettes and stuff. But there's a track from what
is more recent albums called The Getback and it's featuring
Chuck d and Top from the Bush. It's from the
album Everything Is Changed, Nothing is different. I know exactly
what he's talking about because I feel that same way
at my age. A lot of things are changing, but
there's a lot of things that are not that different.
So here we go. Let's play a track with see

(01:07:22):
Doc here and we'll get back into the interview after
this track right here. So here's a little bit of
a break in between this right here is the Impossibles
see Doc Chuck D and Top from the Bush. The
track it's called the Get Back And on the other
side of the song, we'll get back into my conversation
with Sea Doc here on the Infinite Banter podcast.

Speaker 5 (01:07:40):
It was nineteen eighty six when my life was changed
with the Three brothers show me how to walk this way?

Speaker 2 (01:07:45):
Yet every day he seemed mighty Coon again Beta.

Speaker 5 (01:07:48):
In nineteen eighty seven, it was bigger and different. Fresh
to nineteen eighty eight, you fuckers, My philosophy began to
change to another. It was all about the music and
everything they wrote every b as president and had my
vote every worddays Folk and re.

Speaker 2 (01:08:02):
Line, every stands up. You guys that you was just
fucking bananas.

Speaker 1 (01:08:05):
Yell m TV raps with Jeeth my braind.

Speaker 5 (01:08:08):
Every Saturday night of the Living Bay Sands was a
three minute, fourteen.

Speaker 1 (01:08:11):
Second time bomb.

Speaker 5 (01:08:13):
Now I'm looking for my instrumentals to rhyme on Ain't
no half stepper. So when kind of commitment said to
myself and got you.

Speaker 6 (01:08:19):
Gotta do this ship and get back to the times, has.

Speaker 1 (01:08:26):
Excitement behind me, the Soldiers casts.

Speaker 6 (01:08:36):
The mind You my New York Full. Now, I go
back two years before that, nineteen seventy six, and I
heard a mixed DJ sending them seeds on a cassete.

Speaker 1 (01:08:48):
There wasn't no such thing as.

Speaker 6 (01:08:49):
Rap records yet DJ Hollywood is DJ small set something
like yes, shit, y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
I wasn't smoked. I said, what the hell is this?

Speaker 6 (01:08:58):
Eric sent M s Wes just set up mixed yeah pop.
So I never did ever stop the party spot the party,
rock Star, Skip Flash, Spectrum City Hats Shot, leave me
to hear and see a DJ Hady Schieva Records unbelievable,
inconceivable because the record was a tape on Jamaica Avenue
Went in July nineteen seventy.

Speaker 1 (01:09:17):
Nine, and I heard the fact back then. The ken't
till the third my brother's sister introduced me to it.
I said, shuck, you gotta just do this. Ship.

Speaker 2 (01:09:25):
I'm going back down to the time.

Speaker 1 (01:09:30):
And the past. Excitement let up.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
The Soul Captures the.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
Stars with Mimimami on full from the eighties Late Fall Too, Smaller,
play Ball. But I thought it was amazing how My
brother used to raise man twice as eight. You usually
sending the ball sailing surfing up this up like.

Speaker 2 (01:09:54):
A lollipop salesman.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
How the game worked out?

Speaker 5 (01:09:56):
Didn't understanding fully year with him and mother cats and
this due had this little bully.

Speaker 1 (01:10:00):
Suddenly this cruel dude just walked upon the poort. It
got a bit in his face.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Man, I thought they would, but instead of the.

Speaker 4 (01:10:06):
Wind punches, Jo and he started to win rhymes getting
on each other within something puts it out there.

Speaker 6 (01:10:10):
Was amazed and surprised by the things that they said,
dropping rhymes on.

Speaker 1 (01:10:13):
A dime from the top with the head and hit
me in the heart.

Speaker 5 (01:10:16):
Man, it blew my one of the fun Who would
have thought the school boy he would have contented.

Speaker 1 (01:10:20):
Had my heart ran to deferate.

Speaker 2 (01:10:21):
I gotta learn and flip the strip.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Looked at him and everyone said, no time, you gotta
stupid shit.

Speaker 4 (01:10:25):
He get back in the day before I ever heard
a sound, I knew through my father that I came
from the brown that was his love.

Speaker 2 (01:10:31):
Then I guess I always knew it.

Speaker 5 (01:10:33):
The pure stack of love was he never typy too
it See, I was free before I understood what free was.
I explored everything and found my own loves, fell in
love before I really knew what that was, with an
underground sound through the radio buzz.

Speaker 4 (01:10:45):
It was something I.

Speaker 2 (01:10:46):
Never ever heard in my life, but it drew me,
something like am off.

Speaker 1 (01:10:49):
To the light.

Speaker 2 (01:10:50):
Didn't make me popul love didn't make me cool. But
I underlie what they didn't teach you in school. Most
heard noise.

Speaker 5 (01:10:56):
I heard poetry, and before you know it, I guess
the poet.

Speaker 2 (01:11:00):
It's me still many just from what NMC should be.
It was hip hop that kind of holding mode in me.

Speaker 5 (01:11:05):
Now legends of friends and friends became legends.

Speaker 2 (01:11:08):
We're more like a form of your music. Looks shit.
I'll never talk in my life because I'm living it,
he said to myself. I gotta do this shit to
get back.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Hey, yo, what's going on in your man? DJ Lord
Jazz from the world famous Lords of the Underground. Right
now you're tuned in to the Infinite Bancer podcast with
my homie always hitting you one time making it funky.
DJ sound Way, let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:11:33):
You just heard from the Impossibles to get back and
speaking of the get back, let's go ahead and get back.
So my conversation with Sea Doc. In this half we
talk about this podcast at Sea Doc again, and I
like his take on the changing of hip hop music
in the early nineties when The Chronic came out. How
that album is kind of a landmark for what this

(01:11:56):
music sounded like and what producers and record executives were
expecting from the music and trying to do with it.
So I like his take on it. I definitely. I
don't know if I really thought of it the way
he did before. So stay tuned for that a lot
in this interview. Let's get back into it. See Doc
here on the Infinite Banter podcast.

Speaker 1 (01:12:13):
We did the Bulls for a number of years. I
mean technically we never broke up.

Speaker 2 (01:12:16):
But right, there's a bunch of stuff on band camp.
I saw you guys got tons of material out there. Yeah,
people could listen to and h The idea too, is
like obviously for convenience, right, if you want to work
with somebody, let alone another state, but even another country,
you know that that's just the greatness of you know,
do things on the internet. I think now it's just
we just lean on it all the time. Man, don't
you rarely hear about Yeah, we all got in the

(01:12:38):
studio made ten ten songs like that's just not how
things are done anymore. And it's not really about convenience.
It's more about this it.

Speaker 1 (01:12:44):
Is yeah, yeah, exactly, like who knew that that was
going to become the new norm? You know? Chuck still
records at a studio. There's a there's a studio nearby,
not too far from where he lives out west and
and and he likes he He has a he has
a system that, you know, a way of working with
the engineer JP. Shout out to JP and so and

(01:13:07):
then he doesn't have to worry about it so it'll
sound great. And then JP sends me the files or
sends out the files to wherever they have to go.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
So he's got to he's got a system of how
this is all done. It's almost like, yeah, not a
factory because that sounds like it's you know, repetitive, but
the way he does it, he has a to B
kind of thing, yeah right right. He knows how to
start it and how to end it, and then we're
goes from there. You guys do the cooking. He is
to put it in the sauce and everything.

Speaker 7 (01:13:31):
Yep.

Speaker 1 (01:13:32):
Man, So so yeah, it's you know, it's it's cool.
It's a cool working system. And but yeah, but again
that going back to the you know, two thousand whatever,
Well I think it was like, yeah, two thousand when
we did that song. Yeah, nobody thought it was going
to be the new norm. You know, we just thought
we were We thought, well, okay, this will be kind
of cool, right, you know, a good experiment, and then

(01:13:56):
all of a sudden, now that's the it's the thing.
It's the way we do things. So you know, whole
album entire albums are done recording remotely.

Speaker 2 (01:14:05):
Right, yeah. And that's just how it is now. I
mean I had people on here talk about, yeah, it's
engineered in Spain and the producers in Brazil, and you know,
I'm in New York. It's just like it's it doesn't
blow my mind like it used to. Now it's just like,
oh yeah, that makes sense. That's just how it is now.
It's yeah, but you know, five years ago here and
that I'd have been like, what what do you mean,
how do you even notice? Dude?

Speaker 1 (01:14:24):
Yeah, yeah, it's crazy and and and you know, imagine
twenty years ago when like it's uh yeah, it was
still like you know, we ended up doing. I've only
I've only actually been in the studio working on a
record with Chuck once. That was the only time like
we were both in the studio together.

Speaker 2 (01:14:44):
Was it weird it did it feel awkward? Or is
it felt like oh it should be? How did it feel?

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
No? Well, it was it was. It was interesting because
I was the guy in charge. So yeah, I guess
it was weird.

Speaker 2 (01:15:00):
Oh that part of it, right, yeah, yeah, you know, because.

Speaker 1 (01:15:03):
Not that I hadn't not that I hadn't been the
guy in charge for records, but for a Public Enemy record,
and that was That was in two thousand and five.
It was the song I did, the first song I
produced for them from scratch was called Superman's Black in
the Building.

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
Oh, that's why I had read that on the Neural
Order album, right, I saw that yep, yep.

Speaker 1 (01:15:24):
So that was the first song I produced from scratch.
And again that was a that was another kind of
fluke where he had put something up maybe on the
Enemy board where he was saying, hey, yeah, I'm starting
to starting to record new songs, you know, for for
the next Public Enemy record. Well, he wanted to do
two records at the time, so he was planning on

(01:15:45):
doing two records, and he goes, yeah, so I'm writing
songs right now. He had kind of put it up,
so I was like, you know what. Oh, and somebody
else that I remember somebody else that said something like
it posted a reply that said I would love to
hear like a joint, like with big drums, like shut
him Down, you know, like one of those kind of records,
And so I was just kind of sitting there. I'm like,
you know what, I'm going to try to make a

(01:16:05):
record that sounds like that. And then it totally didn't
sound like that at all. But I made the beat
and I was like, well, to hell with it. I'll
send it to Chuck because I thought the beat was
pretty good. And I said it to him, and uh yeah,
like a half hour later, so like I got an
email from him. He goes, He goes, Yep, I'm already
right in to a doc. I was like, really, that's crazy. Okay. Yeah.

(01:16:28):
Ended up becoming Superman Black in the Building, and it
also ended up becoming the longest song they have on record.
This is like eleven eleven minutes, almost twelve minutes long,
I think, because it just became its own animal so.

Speaker 2 (01:16:43):
Yeah, man, it just it just the idea of like
how things have changed over the years, and you know,
we're in twenty twenty five and everything is digital and
everything is done so much easier than it was way
back when. And man, it's just is just hearing all this,
it's just really taking me back. I mean the enemy
boards I remember, and home after work and like getting
on the because the computer Internet used to be like

(01:17:03):
a thing you have to set like at a time
to like, okay, I've got this minute, these many minutes.
It's a bad english this much time to sit in
front of this computer thing and read these chat rooms
or go on this board or in play solitaire and
then you know, go eat or something.

Speaker 1 (01:17:19):
You know like that.

Speaker 2 (01:17:19):
Now it's like we're just doing it all the time,
every day, constantly notification. So you probably didn't know about
that that message on there for hours, right, so you
didn't even know about it some notification you had to
go back home and turn the computer and read it.
It's like, oh, yeah, that's what it says right here.

Speaker 1 (01:17:34):
I'll the first the first time I got an email
from Chock, I didn't get the email for three months,
Like I didn't know it was there. It was sitting
there for three months. But by the time we ended
up doing Superman's and Black in the building, that was
two thousand and five and I had I had cable
internet by then, so that which was you know, that

(01:17:55):
was great. I remember the first time we got cable
internet and the guy was like, he like hooked it
up and he said, yeah, he goes, let me check it,
make sure everything's working, and everything came up so fast.
I was like, oh my gosh, this is crazy. Like
there was like there was no load time for anything.
It's just you know, if you were there, you don't
you know, if you weren't there, man, you have no idea.

Speaker 2 (01:18:14):
No, my six year old daughter has no clue what
we're talking about, and I'm fine. She doesn't have to
and she doesn't have to live that life. She just
need to know about it. You know, this is a
totally you know left turns. You've taken a few talking
about these albums and everything. I got to commend you
because you're doing something that I wish I would have
done already. So whenever I do a post about anything
that I'm into, podcast, whatever, yeah, minimal you know, interaction,

(01:18:38):
But I do a post of her, lots of likes comments.
Of course it's a kid, and you're doing I see it.
You got the records of the CD. I assume that
your son, right, that's holding on all the pictures on Instagram.

Speaker 1 (01:18:48):
Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:49):
I was like, Ah, he's doing what I should have
been doing already. I not not not, you know, not
in a bad way, but I should be using her.
You're like, yeah, I know, right, yeah, have a cute
picture of her, but the whole blah, you know, the
whole under underneath is about you know, the podcast or
something completely unrelated, because all the traffic will just want

(01:19:10):
to see, oh, this cute picture, so yours. I feel
like you're doing it to a next level, like oh,
that's so brilliant. He's holding a record, he's holding paid
in full or something.

Speaker 1 (01:19:18):
That's great man, right, Yeah that I started using Instagram
just to get I saw people would have like all
these you know, filters and things. I'm like, how you
doing that? And they're like, oh, it's Instagram. I'm like
the whom so so I downloaded Instagram and I'm like,

(01:19:38):
oh this is cool, And I really just wanted it
for my own stuff. I didn't want to post anything.
But then it started posting, you know, as a side thing.
It was like, oh, okay, I gotta post, and okay,
and just I don't even know what, like I would
post like once a month maybe, you know, or just
for you know, no particular reason at all. But one

(01:20:02):
time I was on Instagram and started following hip hop
people because hip hop people started showing up on Instagram,
and so I'm like, well, oh, this is kind of
cool when they're talking about these things. And then I
don't even remember exactly why I did it. But my son, Davey,

(01:20:22):
he was very little at the time. I was like, hey, Davy,
come here, and I pulled out only built for Cuban
links my vinyl. I said, hey, let me take a
picture of you holding this, and I did and I
posted it and people just kind of went bananas. They
were like, yo, that's sodbo woo tags for the children.

Speaker 2 (01:20:39):
And all exactly there you go.

Speaker 1 (01:20:42):
I was I don't even know why I thought to
do it. I just kind of did it. And then
I was like, Okay, well, I guess that's gonna be
the thing now. And I didn't do it all the time,
but then we kind of got as as my Instagram
account grew a little bit here and there, and I
would try to promote things music and stuff I was doing,
or the film holmes that I was doing. Then uh,
then I was like, all right, I guess you know,

(01:21:04):
I guess I have to post more often. And then
I and then I would try to do it more often,
and Davy just kind of became the default for a while.
Then Davy grew up and he's like, yeah, I don't
really want to do that anymore, dad. So I was like, okay,
and so I guess I guess Rocco is gonna take over.

Speaker 2 (01:21:19):
Right right next, right next in line. Yeah you're yep.

Speaker 1 (01:21:23):
So Rocco you know, started doing it. And Davey still
does it every.

Speaker 2 (01:21:27):
Once in a while.

Speaker 1 (01:21:28):
But but yeah, yeah, it just kind of began. I
don't know why I started doing it, but it became
the thing to do.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
It's awesome. And like I said, as a as someone
who's always trying to think of new ways to like
get traffic towards me, it's like, oh why and I
have her holding raising hell? You know one time, you know,
she likes day Last Soul. Now she's learning the music.
I should have her hold, you know, three feet high
and rising Ah didn't didn't even think of it till now.
And I, of course I can still do it, but
I feel like I'm a bier now, so I can't
do that.

Speaker 1 (01:21:55):
Because I'm definitely not the I'm definitely not the only
person out there doing it. You know what's funny too,
is you know it's funny too. When I when I
met h DJ premiere, I forget, I forget how it
came up, right, But I was like, oh, yeah, you know.
I think he asked me, yeah, yeah, kids c DOC.
I was like, yeah, I got I got two kids.

(01:22:15):
And I said, yeah, I post pictures, you know, like
my rap records and stuff for CDs or whatever with
the kids. And I showed him one of the I
think I pulled up one of his records, like a
gangstar record, and I showed it to him and he goes, yo,
I love that kid. That's your son. I'm like, yeah,
he goes, yo, your kid is dope.

Speaker 4 (01:22:34):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:22:35):
He goes, oh, yeah, I love these posts. Man. He goes,
I didn't realize that was you, And I was like yeah.
I was like, you know, holy shit. So then we're
in We're in LA and I'm I'm getting ready to
do the the you know, to shoot the Colbert performance,
right and MC search stopped by and because he was

(01:22:55):
in town and he heard the pe was in town,
so he just stopped by to say what up. I
had met Search years before once briefly, but I went
up to say what I've been talking or whatever. Again
it came up. Somehow it came up and I was like, yeah,
this is my kid. I showed him hold the third
base and same thing. He's, yo, man, I love your kid.
That's your kid. I was like, yeah, that's my He goes, yo,

(01:23:18):
I love these posts. These are great. I was like,
I'm like, I didn't even know you guys knew. That's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:23:23):
I guess the other side is like, does does the
kid like doing it?

Speaker 1 (01:23:27):
So so yeah, Rocco Rocco Davy did. Davy did for
a for a while. He would look forward to it.
Sometimes when they're in there, when they're in their moods,
they're like, yeah, whatever, dad, I'm not doing a picture today. Whatever.
But but now Roco like usually he comes in before

(01:23:48):
Betty's like, hey, we got to do any picks. I'm
like I don't know. Maybe, and I usually do him
by release date because that's the easiest to do.

Speaker 2 (01:23:55):
It makes sense. Yeah, that's cool, man, I love it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:59):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:23:59):
It's someone who's sort of thought about doing but it
never could put together how to do it. It's almost
like what Chuck he was saying, it's in my head.
I just don't know how to do it, you know,
I don't know how to put it out there. It's like, ah,
see dog. As soon as I followed you, I was like, Aha,
this guy is on top of it. The only thing
I did that's remotely close to my daughter's name is Melody,
and I had her holding rock him my Melody or

(01:24:21):
whatever when she was like an infant, and you know, people,
some people got it. Some people had no idea what that. Man, like,
why is your baby holding a rap record? I'm like, ah,
s all right, you don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:24:29):
Me, do you.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
It's like, okay, whatever, Yeah, there you go. But man,
salute to you too. I'm going to do a salute.
You can't see it. Salute. That's pretty pretty awesome man.
Speaking of podcasts, Uh, we wrap it up here. Talk
about your podcast It's Sea Doc again. Talk about that
titles really cool and you know the collective of everybody
who's on there. I saw you had Iced Tea and

(01:24:52):
just Ice and man, there's so I'm sure there's a
lot you could talk about him, just talking about how
you got the podcast going and who does it with
you and where people could find it and hear it
every day.

Speaker 1 (01:25:02):
Yeah, so it's on Uh, it's on the Channels zero
YouTube channel, which is uh Chuck's Chuck slash Public Enemies.
It was I think it was originally their h what
is that vimo or whatever it does the music. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
it was their Vemo the public enmy Vemo channel, but

(01:25:23):
then they reached out and got the you know, we
got control of it. So it's called Channel zero, the
Channel zero YouTube channel. So it's got all the you know,
it's got a bunch of pe stuff. The spit slam
videos would live there, and then we have you know,
I we started doing these shows and so the title,
the title is Sea Doc again comes from when I

(01:25:43):
started working with Daddy O from Stetso Sonic. I started
producing some records for him. He said, you need a
producer tag and I said, I've never had a producer tag.
I really don't care and he goes, no, you need
a producer.

Speaker 2 (01:25:56):
And you need for the resume. You need it. You
need to have that right to toolbox.

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I'm not like that. I'm not
like the producers that use it on every damn song
because that just drives me crazy. But I will use
it on occasion. And it just simply started because when
I was when I would do a record for Daddy Oh,
he would send me the vocals and then at some
point in the record he would always go, it's Sea
Doc again. And so I was like, Okay, well, I

(01:26:22):
guess that's my tag, my producer tag. And when I
had a buddy, I had a buddy that I met
years ago when the Impossibles were We were opening up
for Public Enemy in the Cincinnati area, and I'll try
to tell his story as quickly as I hit. We
got there to the show, I think we did sound

(01:26:43):
check and then we were gonna grab some food and
we ran into Professor Griff. He was still with the
group at the time, touring with the group, and Griff said, yeah,
I'm going to get some food. He's like, you guys
want to eat and we're like, yeah, that'd be great.
So we went down the street to the spot and
we were we ordered food and we were sitting there
talking and this guy comes in, this tall, very tall,
bigger built guy. And he comes up and he had

(01:27:06):
like a bit of a Southern drawl and he goes,
he goes, he goes, oh, you're Professor Griff, And I'm like,
oh shit, it's you know, something's about to go down,
Like yeah, right, that's what I'm thinking about it. I'm like,
oh boy, and uh Griff turns alread he goes yeah,
he goes, that's me. And this guy goes, yo, I
love your music. I'm such a fan. I was like,
and I totally blew my mind because I did not

(01:27:27):
expect this at all. He's like pawns in the game,
started ratting off Griff albums and stuff and what just
some guy yeah right. It wasn't like casual like he
knew his he knew the music. He's like, yeah, I'm
a huge Pee fan. I'm here for the show tonight.
And so he's like, yeah, my name's Chuck Stevens whatever
and and he goes great. Griff said, yeah, great to

(01:27:47):
meet you, Chuck. And he goes started introducing some of
the guys. He goes this tirade, you know, from The
Impossibles or whatever, and then he gets to me. He goes, yeah,
this is Sea Doc. And Chuck looks at me and
he goes, uh. He goes, you're Sea Doc and I'm
like yeah, I'm like, nobody knows me. Who the hell.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
I'm like, who is this guy?

Speaker 1 (01:28:03):
Yeah? Who is this guy? And he goes and he goes,
you produced Superman's Black in the Building and I'm like yeah.
He goes, yo, he goes, I love that song. He's
great to meet you. And I'm like, so, not only
does he know a shit, but he reads liner notes too,
So I'm like, okay, man, So so sure enough front
he was front and center at the show, and I
gave him a free Impossible CD or whatever, and so

(01:28:25):
we kind of we kind of kept in touch over
the years. And when Chuck had me start spit Slam
running spitz Slam, I'm like, I don't really know. I
got to figure out how to promote this thing. And
in the process of me trying to figure this stuff out,
he hit me up just to check in and I said,
I said, what are you doing for work right now?

(01:28:46):
And he said, Uh, he worked for an insurance company.
He's from Louisville, Kentucky, and he was their social media guy.
And I'm like, shuck. I'm like, I need help trying
to figure out because I don't know jack about social
media blah blah blah. He's like, he goes, I said,
I don't know how much it'll cost because I don't
really have a budget or anything. He goes, oh, man,
I will help you out for free whatever. And so

(01:29:08):
he gave me pointers and tips and and try to
set some things up, you know, the spitz lamb Instagram
account blah blah blah. And and so he was helping
out here and there, and we would have meetings and stuff.
And one of the one of the days, he calls
me up and he goes, I got an idea and
and he's I said, okay. He goes, you need to
promote yourself more as a producer because I don't think

(01:29:29):
people know who you are. I said, now people don't
know who I am, And he goes, yeah, he goes,
we got to change that. And he said, how about
you start a show and we could do a YouTube
show and it'll you know, it'll be you be the
host and I'll be your co host and it'll we'll
you know, talk about you and stuff like that. And
I said, well, that's not going to last very long

(01:29:51):
because you know, my credits only goes so far. Anyway,
we settled on the idea because I wanted to kind
of do. My idea was like, well, that's kind kind
of interesting, but can we do something like, because I'm
a nerd about this stuff, can we do something that's
like hip hop liner note, you know, like a live
show hip hop liner Notes? Because I don't know if
you remember, there was a book or a couple of

(01:30:12):
books by this guy, Brian Coleman. The first one was
called Rock Him Told Me, and then the and then
he he reissued it as Check the Technique. And there
was volume one of volume two and it was liner
Notes for Hip Hop Junkie.

Speaker 2 (01:30:26):
Oh, I've never heard of this, but I feel like
I need to have this in my life.

Speaker 1 (01:30:29):
You gotta get it. Yeah, yeah, track them down. They're great.
There's two volumes of it. What he what Brian Coleman
did was he would got a hold of artists from
back in the day, classic artists and interviewed them extensively.
About albums that they put out. So he would, for example,
talk to Rock Him about Paid in Full, or Eric

(01:30:52):
B and Rock Him, and he would interview them and
then they they would get an overview of how the
album was recorded, and then they would go track by
track through the album and get you know, reminiscent about
the songs. And so Brian Coleman's idea was he wanted
for all these great rap records that came out that
never had extensive liner note, he wanted to provide those

(01:31:13):
extensive liner notes. And so my only idea for a
show was could we do something like that? Could we
do a show that was like that? Because the other
thing about Brian Coleman I had spoken to him on
email at one point in time because I ordered the
books directly from him, is that he said that they
were very exhaust research intensive and exhausting. Yeah, and so

(01:31:35):
he wasn't gonna do anymore. He didn't do what he
was good. And so I'm like, well, if it's not
like a series he's doing, maybe I should do that
as a show. And so Chuck Stevens said, well, yeah,
let's figure this out. And so that's how the show started.
And so the first couple episodes are just kind of
me I think, and I think, Chuck came on, Chuck
d came on, and then I don't. I don't even

(01:31:56):
remember how Jennifer found out about it, but Jennifer O
Jenny Oh through Daddy Oh, That's what it was. Jennifer
O Jenny, who is one of my current co hosts
and aside from myself, is the longest person on the show.
She was working with Daddy O and Stetsonic, and she
also got her start at K Day Kday in Los Angeles,

(01:32:21):
which was like one of the very first all wrapped
twenty four hour station in the country. And so anytime
anybody of note in Los or went to Los Angeles
to promote rap records, they always went to K Day, right,
And so Jennifer worked back in the day, and so
she knew all these people. She knew the kDa Mixed Masters,

(01:32:43):
you know, she knew NWA before they were nw A.
You know, she knew all these people because they all
went through Kday. She used to She used to hang
out with the Rhyme Syndicate guys, the bout Yacht Tribe,
all those she knew all those people. Eventually Chuck was
like a couple episodes in check was like, Yo, this,
I've been talking to this Jennifer, Jenny, she knows all
these people, she go out of these stories. We should

(01:33:05):
bring her on the show. And I was like, okay,
why not because we were still trying to figure out
what the show was going to.

Speaker 2 (01:33:10):
Be, right and so it's kind of like making a
record like ye earlier, things just kind of organically change, Yeah,
and they grow from there, yeah man, yeah, and.

Speaker 1 (01:33:18):
They fell in place. So Jennifer came on, and then
one of the ideas was it'd be great if we
had a DJ, so I roped am Rock into it
for a while. So am Rock was on for a
while as our DJ, and then but then we had
some technical issues with stream Yard that the music didn't
always sound good because of the just the limitations of
the technology. So after a while Amrock was like, you

(01:33:41):
know what, I'm going to bow out because I'm kind
of busy with other stuff anyway, and we were doing
The thing about the show is we're doing it every week,
you know, and we haven't missed a week. We've done
two hundred and one episodes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:33:53):
Man, it's a commitment.

Speaker 1 (01:33:54):
Yeah, it's a commitment. So I get it. I got it,
and you know, totally understood. And I've actually missed a
couple of shows, but the crew has held it down.
So but we're we're there every week. And then Chuck
bowed out because he was going to go do some
Chuck Stevens about out, he was going to go do
some other things. So it was Jennifer and I, but
we brought on Flatline, who runs uh rap station Chuck's

(01:34:18):
on Chuck D's online radio station and radio network, I
should say, And he's also in charge of Hip Hop Gods,
which is he's been doing that show for for years
and years and years, which plays specializes in playing new
music by classic rap artists. And then the latest edition
was Ultra mag seven, who was who was a guest

(01:34:39):
originally and we had such a great rapport. I finally
we were just like, yo, let's do just come on
the show, and so he became one of the co hosts.
And you know, he's a he's an integral part of
the show. He has a wealth of knowledge and experience
and yeah, so the squad we have now it's myself
Jennifer Jenny from X seven, Flat Line it's a great crew,

(01:35:02):
and we love it. We love getting to talk to
all these artists. And the other great thing about the
show is that we're so we're not sensationalizing anything. We
were nerds. We love the knowledge, We love hearing the stories.
That's the main thing. So we want, right, we want
our guests to tell stories and feel comfortable about it.
And I'm not trying to get any you know, I'm
not trying to I'm not vlat I ain't trying to

(01:35:24):
be like that.

Speaker 2 (01:35:25):
No, no, I'm good on that. Yeah, yeah, exactly right, right.

Speaker 1 (01:35:28):
Yeah, So when people come on our show, ninety nine
percent of the time they love coming on the show.
They end up loving you know, we've had people that
were just like, yeah, that was that was cool, right,
you know that was the one The one percent is
like yeah that was cool. Thanks. But like a lot
of the people love coming on the show, love the experience,
and and people like just Ice, you know, they're like

(01:35:51):
he's like, yeah, when can I come back?

Speaker 2 (01:35:53):
You know that's the best. Yeah, when they want to
do it again, it's like, because you didn't geat probably
a lot more to cover too, right, And we barely
scratch the surface. And stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:36:00):
I bet sure. Yeah, you know he's like, yeah, he goes,
I love hanging out with you guys, that's what he said.
I'm like, I'm like, shit, just like hanging out with you. Bro.

Speaker 2 (01:36:09):
You're there.

Speaker 1 (01:36:09):
You made some of the dopest music ever. So so
Iced Tea was a big get. And that was episode
two hundred.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
But that's a landmark number there. So you got iced
team for two hundred.

Speaker 1 (01:36:21):
Yeah, man, Yeah, one hundred was one hundred was Chuck
Chuck D Be Real and DJ Lord, you know, and
that was post obviously post Profits of Rage breaking up,
but it was the it was the the profits part
of Profits of Rage. So that was you know, that
was great. That was an epic episode. And yeah, and

(01:36:41):
shout out to Donald D. Rhyme, Sin Kitt and the
legendary b Boys who got us the Iced Tea connect,
got Ice on the show. Donald's of course a friend
of the show, and and the Bee Boys are on
the Spit Slam label, and you know, I got to
produce some records for them, you know, which is you know,
all this stuff is it's a trip for me, man,
and it's it's crazy that I get to work with

(01:37:02):
these guys, do I make a whole lot of money. No,
but you know, I much to my wife's chagrin, but
she also understands. No, man, I get it because she
also understands that like this is it's it's more than that.
You know. Yeah, it's great to pay the bills. We'd
love to pay the bills, but but this is like,

(01:37:24):
you know, I don't know, we're we feel like we're
doing something special and trying to document this stuff and
and and and give these guys, you know, opportunities to
do new music and and all of that, support their
new music, help them do music, new music, release new music,
and and not just that. You know, rap has a

(01:37:45):
very selective.

Speaker 2 (01:37:46):
Memory, I guess yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:37:49):
You know, yeah, people unless you're like a real true head,
like you obviously know what you're talking about because you're
I'm mentioning these things and you're like, oh, yeah, I
remember when that happened. You know, you know, you know
there's a poison going on, so you remember, Man, the
opportunity of buying it online, like you know, the heads
know that, so you know. But if if you go

(01:38:11):
with the general discourse on hip hop and rap music,
it's always the same and it's and I'm not trying
to I'm not talking down on these guys, right because
it's not their fault. But it's always the same guy.
It's it's always jay Z Nas Biggie.

Speaker 2 (01:38:29):
You know, yeah, it's it's right. It's the usual suspects
for everything.

Speaker 1 (01:38:33):
The usual suspects, you know, And and they're the ones
that always get talked about. I've even noticed weird oddly enough,
like Tupac was always in that conversation and he's not
in that conversation as much anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:38:46):
Because there's new people coming into the conversation who have
no idea who Tupac is, right or when he was here.

Speaker 1 (01:38:53):
Yeah, yeah, right exactly. So it's very it's very bizarre
to me. But like there's so much recorded music, and
there are so many artists that made an impact before
those guys that have you know that not everybody remembers,
and they're not always in the conversation, and so we're
always feeling like we got to keep them in the conversation,

(01:39:14):
you know, we got to keep them or give them
opportunities to just put music out. Man. You know, last
year I never thought I would I would never thought
this would happen. But last year I was involved. I
produced a couple of songs, and I oversaw production of
the record and put it out the first new Stetso
sonic album in thirty years.

Speaker 2 (01:39:35):
Which is crazy. I remember Ultra Meg brought that up.
I was like, has it really been that long? It
doesn't feel it, yeah, but man it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:39:40):
Yeah. Well longer than that, I was like thirty three.
Their last album was nineteen ninety one, so it was
like thirty three years or something like that. And to
be involved in that in full gear, you know, their
second album is one of is I hold that album
on a pedestal man. Eighty eight that year was incredible
and it's one of the best records that came out

(01:40:01):
that year, and nobody talks about that record anymore, you know,
unless unless you got it, unless you were there and
and so to be involved in a new that's a
sonic album, man, it's crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:40:14):
And another thing too about eighty eight, you know, especially
that year, think of all this stuff that came out
in that that time frame. So I think something that
such a sonic almost gets undercut because there's so much
greatness that came out that maybe they're under the radar
a little bit, not with the true fans, but people
who are maybe on the sidelines are casual like, oh yeah,
I know about run DMC and you know whatever, but

(01:40:36):
they didn't necessarily jump in all the way to hear
sets of Sonic Record And I saw you guys have
Schoolly D and oh my god, I was like a
school d that's awesome. And me doing this podcast. I
remember I had Spider D on here. I was so
geeked to talk to Spider D. And Chill Will was
one of my favorite guests. I love hearing the stories
from these guys who were who were part of just
giant moments in hip hop music and and made some

(01:40:58):
great records at the same time. Lord Jazz was great
when I had him on here. I mean, I love
hearing those stories from these guys because I feel like
I don't hear but anybody talking about Lords the Underground enough,
you know, or you know, all these other artists Man.

Speaker 1 (01:41:12):
Yo Man, Lords and Low Tug made such those They
were one of those groups that made an immediate impression
when they drop you know and so, but it was
before or well, no, Low Tug, I guess was around
that time. But there was a period where rap was
blowing up, but it hadn't gone you know. I guess
there was pop rap, right, there was pop rap. There

(01:41:35):
was Hammer and Vanilla Ice and whatever and these big records,
and I guess Two Life Crew to a degree, But
there was a distinction there, Like the pop rap was
kind of seen by a lot of people selling out, right,
and they were selling millions of records, but they were
seen as like, oh, you guys sold out or whatever
the hell, you know, But then the Chronic drop and

(01:41:58):
then that wasn't the thing anymore. Then then it wasn't
selling out anymore. It was like, oh, now that's a
standard that we're gonna hold you guys to. You've got
to sell millions of records.

Speaker 2 (01:42:09):
That's a good landmark album to bring. I never thought
of it that way, but not as you say that,
you're right, it's that one sold. I mean, obviously there's
records before that that are you know, appreciated as much,
and Soulo a lot, But for you're right, when the
Chronic came out, it kind of was in the middle
of that. There's a lot of commercialized stuff. There's the underground,
there's the the everything I think get a great buffet
of hip hop music from that timeline too. You want

(01:42:31):
Kid and Play, you've got that. If you want fresh prints,
if you want Day Last Soul, Yeah, Tribe, and there's
like all kinds of different palettes, Spice one, whatever you're into,
We've got it all here.

Speaker 1 (01:42:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:41):
But you're right, the Chronic is that landmark album that
kind of made it where you can make an album
that's commercially successful but not sell out at the same time.
That's the key.

Speaker 1 (01:42:49):
Yes, that was that was the thing, and and and
for better or for worse, the Chronic changed everything and
and so everything now it's like now record companies are like, well,
you should do this, you should talk about weed, and
you should be gangsters, and yeah, that's.

Speaker 4 (01:43:03):
What they were.

Speaker 1 (01:43:04):
That's what they were kind of like pushing things towards.
And I'm trying to think of the best way to
put it. That just kind of came the the norm
of like wrap became and not entirely, but like that
became more of the focus because that's what was perceived
to be selling the most at the time, and so

(01:43:26):
it got a little opsided in there. For better or
for worse, I know, Drayden. You know, dreve just was
making music. He wasn't out to, like, you know, change
the industry in that way. But like you said, the
one thing I wanted to add to your point about
the buffet of different sounds and styles or whatever. The
other great thing about was that they all toured together.

Speaker 2 (01:43:44):
Exactly, and you weren't frowned upon. If you liked to
say Kid and Play and Public Enemy you were, that
was actually that's fine. You could like them both like
you were, and they made sense they would be on
stage together.

Speaker 1 (01:43:53):
Yeah, yeah, exactly, yo, yo man. The last arena tour
I remember seeing because I miss Smoking Grooves. I'm still
that but anyway, that was my fault. The last arena
tour I saw was, which I found out later was
the final show on a Public Enemy tour. It was
the Richfield Coliseum outside of Cleveland, Ohio, in nineteen January

(01:44:15):
ninety two, and I didn't know it at the time,
but it was the last show on the tour. They
just told me that later. It was Public Enemy, Ghetto Boys,
Queen Latifa, Naughty by Nature, Kidn't Play, and who was
on the who was also on that show that weren't
on the bill which we showed up and they came
out on stage. We didn't even know they were gonna be.

(01:44:37):
There was Son of Berserk and a tribe called Quest.

Speaker 2 (01:44:39):
Oh get out it. Yeah, we don't even have a
tribe called Quest right by the way.

Speaker 1 (01:44:45):
It's craz ninety two tribe. And they weren't even on
the bill. It was like what it was that that
show was? That show was bananas, but like, yeah, that
was that was the you know, that was the show.
And you know, so Ghetto Boys, you know, Doughty came on,
did their thing, Latifa came on, did her thing, and
then went to the to Houston with Ghetto Boys doing

(01:45:08):
Gangster Ship and then Pe comes out. You know, it
was a but it worked. It all worked.

Speaker 2 (01:45:13):
And all those groups you mentioned and artists, they are
all their own kind of style and they're all kind
of thing and they could all be part of the
same audience as far as enjoying. You know, they said,
Ghetto Boys are one of the hardest groups ever. And
you got kid who play who you know, doing fun
songs and dancing, and then you got try call quests
kind of in the middle of all. They they're not
either one of those that's amazing exactly, And that's that's

(01:45:35):
a hell of a show. Yeah, and all they're prime too, man,
that's crazy and they're prime.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
And but it all worked, and it all existed and
it co existed together and stuff. And so when when
rap got when it got a little lopsided there, you know,
and then it was a couple of things. It was
it was pushing more gangster rap r and also sampling
lawsuits and that really kind of changed the sound of

(01:46:02):
the music and the approach to the music, right, and
you know, kind of kind of changed things.

Speaker 2 (01:46:10):
So yeah, there's a I mean, there's a whole thing.
There's like another three hours you could talk about all
that change.

Speaker 1 (01:46:15):
Yeah, that's all. That's a whole other thing. Yeah, you're right,
but yeah, man, But what's cool about twenty twenty five
is that the records that have been coming out last
year and this year, it feels like we're getting back
to like we're getting back to those sounds very much.
We're getting back to the styles. We're getting back to

(01:46:37):
veteran artists putting out new music. It's the homye Ultramags
calls it the renaissance. Yeah, I believe he's really right
about this, you know, No, he's right.

Speaker 2 (01:46:48):
I mean we're getting you know, new Slick Rick, you
got new Chuck d. You got a mob Deep album coming.
Ghost Face dropped Supreme Clientele too, and I'm sure Nas
is getting ready to do someone premiere, right. I mean,
there's like so much, so much stuff. Yeah, and it
doesn't sound old. These aren't. These guys aren't making, you know,
albums just just to stay relevant. They're making good albums,
a good material they're making.

Speaker 1 (01:47:09):
They're making good music man. Yeah, yeah, stat school, These
album has been out for a minute. The b Boys,
like I mentioned that, that's actually they had only done
singles back in the eighties. So this was their first
album ever. You know, they put out their debut album.
They've been ryman since eighty four or eighty five, but
never had an album, never had an album, So they

(01:47:31):
put out their first album ever. I got a shout
out why z oh yeah from Yeah Wysez put out
his new album this year, which is up on band camp,
and it is so dope. That record is so great.
Redman Muddy Waters two oh yeah was great, is great.
You know. Ll I really liked ELL's record, Yeah, he really.

Speaker 2 (01:47:54):
I mean he really. I want to say shocked, because
I wasn't shocked to hit a good album, but you
were always waiting for that, like I want that L
that raw L and he you know, Q SIP production
everything it was. It was amazing man Common and Pete Rock.
I mean, there's so much stuff Common Rock album.

Speaker 1 (01:48:09):
Yeah, dare I say it? I really like the Comic
pe Rock album, But I don't want to. I don't
want to disregard that because it's really good. But I personally,
I think I actually like the L record better.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
You're not the only person I've heard say that. Shouts
to my guy DJ real One, because we had this
debate when both of those albums came out, which one's better, Like, well,
they're not really the same album. I feel weird them,
but I guess you kind of have to because they're
legendary artists coming out around the same time.

Speaker 1 (01:48:36):
Yeah, I mean, I'm just I'm talking about It's it's
me personally, and the album that I the album that
of the two that I listened to more was the
l L record. I find found found myself going back
to the l L record more. But the Comic pe
Rock album is great.

Speaker 2 (01:48:54):
It's so good man, And I'm playing the most right
now is Freddy Gibbs and Alchemists. I'm playing that a lot,
so I haven't. Yeah, man, man, it's it's hard because
you know, being a dad is one thing, and also
just there's so much out there, and you know, I
do this podcasts. I can let independent artists hunt there
so some focusing on what they're sending me and like,
oh man, I totally missed out. I'm hearing this new

(01:49:16):
album in this one, and you know, there's a rock
Marciano album, my stuff and even Touched yet I got
to hear all this stuff. I don't know when to
get to it.

Speaker 1 (01:49:21):
But yeah, yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's the thing. There's
always there's always stuff. There's always new music coming out.
Plus I'm working on music and film stuff and it's
like videos and so it all. You know, I always
I get backtracked and not to mention, you know, one
of the pluses of the Internet is I'm I'm still

(01:49:42):
discovering music that came out thirty four years ago. God.

Speaker 2 (01:49:45):
Yeah, without a doubt. There's there's all kinds of stuff
that like when I had Ultramax seven, I really didn't
know who Princess Superstar was. And then I started playing
stuff and I'm like wow, yeah, and he's like, yeah,
you might have a new song on I'm like, they do,
they have a new album? How do I missed this?

Speaker 4 (01:50:00):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:50:01):
How did I not know that? You know? It's yeah,
new Heigh Mighty album? Is that? Yeah? That's right? Is
that that one too? I know I'm forgetting people.

Speaker 2 (01:50:07):
Right, Yeah, you're right. There's old albums that you maybe
just never got around to or for whatever reason, ever
heard and you start like, man, how did I miss this?
I'm trying to think of an example of all the time.
I head I'm having a hard time with one. But
there's there's so many ideas like that, and that's what's
great about you know, you can still go record digging
because vinyl is, you know, still a thing and you
can find a single or something for somebody who never
heard over like man, what's this? Go home and play

(01:50:29):
it and like, man, this is I need to find
more from this person. So yeah, man, it's us hip
hop fans. You know, we're always looking for a new
stuff and old stuff and everything in between, man.

Speaker 1 (01:50:38):
And everything in between, Yeah, and whatever's Whatever's just there's
so much dope stuff out there. I also got to
give a shout out to another show on Channel zero.
It's on hiatus at the moment, but they'll be back
soon hopefully. Dave Cy and Moca Only, who are two
hip hop artists. Mocha is a Canadian resident and day

(01:51:00):
Si was between the US and Canada, and they have
a show usually Wednesday nights called body Hat Weekly where
they do deep dives into albums they think didn't get
a fair shake the first time around. And so I
find out. I find out about records from them all
the time because they'll you know, they played the Whole

(01:51:22):
Shebang Volume one by the Future Sound, which I never heard,
and now I'm like, this record is amazing, you know,
and that was ninety two.

Speaker 2 (01:51:30):
I think it came out right lost shuffleshow right. I mean,
it's just one of those things.

Speaker 1 (01:51:34):
It's overlooked, yep, lost in the cracks and so but
Dave and Moca is Moca's got to be one of
the most prolific hip hop artists ever. He's literally done
over one hundred albums since nineteen ninety six or something
like that. I forget. It's like it's a It's amazing
the amount of incredible dope material that guy has. Super
cool dude and Dave Side shout out to Dave SI,

(01:51:56):
who just released his new EP a month or so ago.
So and Ultra Mag's been doing little videos for Dave.
So yeah, those guys. You know, I got to sit
in on a couple episodes. We talked about KMDS Black Bastards.

Speaker 2 (01:52:10):
Oh god, that's a classic. Yeah, there's there's so much
history behind the release of that album and what went
into it and the cover and sub rock passing. Oh
my god, there's a whole there's a whole thing that
I need to need to check that out, man, and
people need to check you out. You know, we can't
overlook this. So you've got the podcast. Let them know
where they can follow you online. How they could you know,
follow the label, catch up with all the artists you've

(01:52:31):
got that are out there on the on the label
and everything. But there's so much to throw out people
that they definitely can follow you online and everything.

Speaker 1 (01:52:38):
Yeah, I'm I'm I'm primarily on Instagram. That's the best
way place to find me. It's Sea Doc again, Official
h C doc. The show is on, Like I said
the Channel zero YouTube channel at Sea Doc. Again, we're
there every week. And let's see what else. The label
is Spitzlam, the Spitzlam record label group, Spitslam Records. I
forget what the instagram is Pitslam Official, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:53:01):
Right, but they can go to your Instagram and now
you've got on there, there's links where they find everything, right.

Speaker 1 (01:53:06):
Yeah, if you and also if you look up Spitzlam,
spitz Slam Records. We're on band camp and that's a
that's a great place to see where you know all
the artists we have. You know some recent releases. Daddy
O Just Daddy Oo from stat just put out a
new record not too long ago. Do Me Wright, who

(01:53:29):
was a member of a Zimbabwe Legit. They were signed
a Hollywood Basic back in ninety one. They were the
first African UH. There were brothers, him and his brother.
They were the first African artist signed to a major
label deal rap deal. Yeah, ever, I think so here

(01:53:53):
in the States. So they did an ep UH with
their group Zimbabwe Legit. Doom Me just put out his
new record a couple months back on spit Slam. Philmost
Chill out of Philly, Legendary Underground hip hop guy put
out his new record with DJ am Rock. Uh Chill
Rock G put out an EP. I'm actually finishing up
his new album right now. Yeah. Of course you mentioned

(01:54:15):
school Y D who put out his latest record with
US stat D Boys Sugar Bear. If that's that's for
the Heads Long Islands.

Speaker 2 (01:54:23):
Yeah, you know, Ultra Meg brought him up and I
was like, I don't think I knew who that is.
And I went back and played the penetration record he
had and I was like.

Speaker 1 (01:54:30):
Ready, ready to penetrate. Yeah, I was like, oh my god, how.

Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
Did I miss this?

Speaker 1 (01:54:34):
Like that?

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
That's a good example of what you're talking about, an
older artist that had something out that I just somehow missed,
like I completely was unaware.

Speaker 1 (01:54:41):
So uh so, yeah, if you if you go to
band camp uh spit slam dot bandcamp dot com, that's
a great place to see the overview and you can
get music there. But it's all on streaming too. And
you know, we got stuff. Almost everything is out on
CD at spitslam Records dot com. We do c D
on demand. We've got a great system, so uh that

(01:55:03):
way we can put stuff out physical product and some
of it is on wax too. It's out there and
we even't do cassette here and there, so some of it,
some of it are out on tape.

Speaker 2 (01:55:12):
And yet the pe album on band camp. I ended
up getting it on there as well. Yeah, and the
album Jam Yeah, go.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
Ahead, I was gonna say that. So the Yeah Chuck's
album is out on UH streaming vinyl n CD through
deaf Jam. The Public Enemy record Black Sky Over the
Project is UH out on band camp and it's out
on streaming now. You can direct order from our distributor.
The CD is in stock now and the CD will

(01:55:41):
be coming to other retail outlets soon awesome October tenth,
along with the vinyl.

Speaker 2 (01:55:47):
So that there is a vinyl coming. I think I
did see that there's order or something.

Speaker 1 (01:55:51):
Okay, yeah, yeah, and there's actually the vinyl is kind
of cool because there's the standard black vinyl, but then
there's a couple variants. I think there's three different variants.
Uh so if you're into like special vinyl or whatever,
Barnes and Noble is going to have one, have a

(01:56:14):
color variant vinyl, and then Zea Records out of Arizona
they're gonna have one, and Oldies dot Com is going
to have their own variant, So there's gonna be some
some kind of cool yeah, color swirl variant. We found
some some neat looking records. Neat yeah, I'm old.

Speaker 2 (01:56:34):
You talking about hip hop. You're using the word neat.

Speaker 1 (01:56:36):
Yeah, I should say dope. There you go. Well do
path no path looking vinyl? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:56:45):
Oh yeah, man uh man, Sea Doc, thanks are coming through.
Oh before I let you go. Uh yeah, real quick
origin of the name Sea Dot. How did you come
up with that?

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (01:56:53):
Geez, Okay, there's probably no quick way to say that,
is there.

Speaker 1 (01:56:56):
No, I'll try to I'll try to tell I've told
the story before. I'll try to tell it as quickly. Aspot.
So my my I was I was raised Catholic. Since
fallen out of favor with religion, but that's the whole
other thing. But I was raised Catholic. So my birth
name is David Christopher Snyder. I was confirmed in the

(01:57:17):
Catholic Church. I had confirmation, so you get to take
a confirmation name, and my confirmation name was Michael, and
then my mom's middle My mom's main name is del Serone.
She's half Italian, and so I always kind of identified
more with the Italian side of the family than the

(01:57:40):
you know, the Mutt side of the family. The mix
of everything else in my cad. So so just me personally,
I always kind of brought, you know, when I was younger,
I brought the del Serone name into my name, so
David Christopher Michael del Cerone Snyder and just being a young,
silly kid. And so I when I started doing movies

(01:58:03):
and music stuff, I had the middle, the CMD in
the middle, and so I my movie quote unquote movie
company was called Command Pictures that came out of CMD.
And then my first rap name, rapper name when I
started rhyming was cool Master D because it was the
eighties and that kind of the thing, right, So cool

(01:58:26):
Master D didn't last very long, so I just shortened
it the CMD and went used that for a long time.
And then my cousin John, who was also part of
the early rap stuff and and he was a he
was an MC two on one of the songs or
something we did, he called me C Doc and he

(01:58:48):
just made because he took it from C and then
m D you know medical doctor. Yeah, so he called
me C doc. And when I got onto the enemy board,
I for whatever reason, I just posted as sea Doc
and it's stuck, and so I have been Sea Doc
ever since.

Speaker 2 (01:59:06):
You even look back. Man, that's perfect. Yeah, that's a
great name. Yeah, those first original names, right are you know?
I think I call myself Mark B. And it sounds
so like nineteen ninety or something. It's like I remember
a friend was like, you can't you gotta lose that.
It sounds like a boy band or so you can't
do that anymore. Like, Okay, I call myself those names.

Speaker 1 (01:59:28):
Those names didn't last very long.

Speaker 2 (01:59:30):
No, No, everything with hip hop for the most part
has like a shelf life. It seems like, and there
aren't things that what's cool today is not cool tomorrow,
but it could be cool on Wednesday.

Speaker 4 (01:59:39):
You know.

Speaker 2 (01:59:39):
It's like you never know it comes back.

Speaker 1 (01:59:41):
So yeah, I have thought about I thought about doing
like like a drum machine scratching album and just putting
it out as cool Master D. I don't think anybody
will care, but you know I might do that just
for kicks.

Speaker 2 (01:59:52):
Yeah, bring cool Master D back. Yeah, he's your Macavelli,
like he's your alias, he's your AKA, right yeah, or
cool Keith. He is like what eighty six different ak?

Speaker 1 (02:00:03):
Yeah? So many, so many aliases.

Speaker 2 (02:00:05):
Yeah, man, big up for coming through one of the
longest shows I've done in a while. But I appreciate it. Man,
there's so much, just so much I didn't even talk about.
It's all good man. Another time, another place, Yeah time.
But everybody make sure you follow se Doc on Instagram.
It's sea Doc again. The podcast. You gotta get that
new pe album on band camp, and the Chuck d

(02:00:26):
album and everything you're doing on the label with the
Daddy Oh and Stetso Sonic and schooly D. I don't
forgetting some others, but just so much chill rob G. Yeah, yeah,
you guys are doing so much, and it's just great
to see all these artists still performing and still recording.
It's just it's just awesome as a fan, man, Yep.

Speaker 1 (02:00:43):
You gotta do until the wheels fall off. I mean
damn right, yeah, especially real quick. I just want to say,
especially since you know it has come up again just
the other day or somebody was talking about rappers should
retire at forty one? Why is rap and hip hop?
Why are why is that the only one only music

(02:01:05):
that says that where knuckleheads say that shit, It's like Yo, man,
I'm fifty one. I don't want to I have nothing
in common with a kid who's talking about who's nineteen.
I'm not saying he doesn't. He doesn't have a point
of view or perspective, right, But if he's talking about
whatever he's talking about, and it's not you know, it's

(02:01:27):
like the usual, like if it's if it's trap or
mumble rap or whatever it is, that's not for me.
It's it's for somebody else, which is fine, but it's
not for me. I want to hear. I want to
hear Schoolly D. What is Schoolly D gotta say at
sixty years old? What does Chuck D have to say
at sixty years old? Sixty five years old? You know what,
I'm I'm an adult entering this, you know, next phase

(02:01:48):
of my life. I want to hear what these other
guys that have a unique perspective. I want to hear
what they have to say. And and so it's a
beautiful thing. It shouldn't be disregarded. It's a beautiful thing
for hip hop age gracefully and for guys. I mean,
they're still making done that. I love that Slick Rick record.

Speaker 2 (02:02:05):
Yeah, you know, yeah, and maybe you want more. I
was like, I went a little more slick Rick. I
was like, oh, I know he's got more in him.
I can't wait to hear some some new stuff too
beyond this. This is great, yeah, man, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1 (02:02:15):
Man. I was just like anytime Rick Rick had put
out I think it was like maybe five years ago.
He put out a couple of singles and and they
were great, man, And it's just like nobody really talked
about him that much. But I'm like, Yo, this is
so dope. It's Rick being Rick, and I love this.

Speaker 2 (02:02:33):
You have a song of mugs or something, right, I'm
trying to remember there's a couple that.

Speaker 1 (02:02:37):
Maybe, but yeah, maybe, but he he had put out
a couple of singles, like on his own. I think
he put out like two. It was Oh, it was
right around the time where they did the anniversary of
the his uh the great events is a slick Rick.
So maybe it was a few years more than that.
Maybe it was like not maybe it was twenty eighteen
maybe right, maybe something like that around that, and the

(02:02:57):
time's going by quick. Man.

Speaker 2 (02:02:59):
Yeah, it's like the eighteen doesn't feel like that was
that long ago.

Speaker 1 (02:03:01):
But holy shit, Yeah, it's yeah, so so maybe it
might have been around then, but like they had, they
did that special edition of Great Adventures and it had
some had a bonus track. But then he also put
out he dropped a couple new songs and it sounded
like classic Slick Rick style stuff and I was like,

(02:03:23):
this is so dope, and I was like, oh, maybe
he's gonna do an album. But then nothing happened. But
then they announced the massive Puel thing. I'm like, yeah,
I'm there for it. I'm there for it all. And
he did not disappoint No, not at all.

Speaker 2 (02:03:36):
And you know, going back to your your point there,
it's like, you know, there's there's people who grew up
with the Rolling Stones or whatever and they go see
him and that's, yeah, that's awesome man. I'm go ahead.
Performance you guys just really realize you can't do it anymore.
And I don't know why I can't. I joked to
this with Ultra Bag. I want to see Kane still
jump over scoob and scrap if you can still do
it in his sixties, fine, yeah, I don't care, like
I want to see that, I want to hear that.

(02:03:58):
It doesn't mean I don't want to hear new me
music from younger artists if they're doing something that relates
to something I want to hear. But yeah, I'm not
gonna listen to trap music because it's it's not made
for me. And it's okay, you guys have you like.

Speaker 1 (02:04:10):
Yeah, it's fine, it's fine. I'm not gonna be one
of those guys that's like, oh, you know, I'm not
gonna do that. Right, Everything, everything has it's time because
because in the same at the same token, I remember
my dad trying when I would play, he'd hear rap
stuff that I was playing, and he just did not
get it at all, you know, he was just like,
what is this? And I'm just like, yeah, okay, you

(02:04:32):
don't do it. Okay, I understand, I got it.

Speaker 2 (02:04:35):
I got it.

Speaker 1 (02:04:35):
I understand it's cool. I get it. So I'm not
trying to be like that. And right, and I just
because I don't like something, just because I don't like
something doesn't mean somebody else somewhere else, you know, it
feels the same way. But but I also know that
because I do like something, there probably is somebody else
there that out there that's gonna dig it too, And

(02:04:56):
so I try to musically. Musically, that's my taste barometer.
I try as long as I can keep stuff like
in that kind of realm, like somebody somewhere else is
going to dig this, and you.

Speaker 2 (02:05:08):
Know, yeah, man, it happens to be the case.

Speaker 1 (02:05:10):
Yo, Yo. Man, some dude like a month or two
ago hit me up and said he ordered something from
the site, and he sent me an email and he said, Hey,
I just wanted to thank you for all the great
music you're putting out. I consider you to be one
of the dopest producers working right now. And I'm like
that kind of like blew my mind. I'm like, somebody

(02:05:31):
I don't know took the time to tell me that
and they feel that way, and I think that's that's it.
That's that's why you do.

Speaker 2 (02:05:39):
It for man. That that not that you need recognition,
but it doesn't hurt to get it. But it doesn't
hurt when you when you hear somebody hurt something you
did and felt something from it and even took the
initiative to write you something say hey, man, I like
what you do. You're really good at this. And dude,
at the end of the day, I mean, that's that's
great because I don't even know if say that's that's

(02:06:00):
just awesome. Man.

Speaker 1 (02:06:01):
Yeah, it made my year, bro, because like because you
don't you artists create these things. We create so that
they we don't want them to exist in a vacuum,
you know. But I've also been doing this long enough
that I realize everything is not for everybody, so I
try not to. I've gotten so many you know, reviews

(02:06:23):
over the years where they've just trashed the music that
you got to have a thick skin. So I'm like,
I don't. I try not to pay it any mind
anymore because I've had enough people engage in a positive
manner that I know I don't totally suck at this.
It's worth doing, you know. Like like like if everybody,
if everybody that came up with is like your shit

(02:06:43):
is trash, you should probably quit. So okay, then maybe, yeah,
maybe maybe I'm just gonna do it for myself and
just not you know, put it out in the world anymore.
But that's not that's not the case. And so if
I can offer something, if I can offer my services
and keep doing stuff that people are engaging with, I'm
going to do it. You know. It's the least I
can do. It's the least I can do to give

(02:07:05):
back to this music and this culture that has given
me so much over the years.

Speaker 4 (02:07:09):
Man.

Speaker 2 (02:07:09):
That's that's a good way to end him. Man, that
is exactly what. You know, all of us had our fans,
and heaven's any kind of VENI from the outside looking in,
you know, like me doing this podcast, you know, we're
just we're just trying to bring the culture and the
music to other people who are like minded, or maybe
somebody knew who might tap in. But it's just the
idea of like, here's here's what I'm into. If you're
into it now, we can you know, we could build

(02:07:31):
on that, we could chop it up or whatever. And
that's just that's just great man. I mean, I'm joke
with you like this, this this episode here is like
my six degrees of Kevin Bacon, but instead of Kevin Bacon,
it's Chuck Dy because you know, with you and Ultra
mag I got Enbrock coming up. I had Andy Katz
on last year. I feel like, oh yeah, it's like
the yeah he was. I discovered him on YouTube. I

(02:07:52):
was like, he did a documentary about rundem s took pictures,
like why would I even know about the to think
about looking for something like this? And I just went
down that rabbit hole and I'm like, I need to
talk to him. How do you know where these guys are?
How do you That's amazing? You know, It's like this
is so cool. And he tells me he worked at
Chuck and he did album artist stuff.

Speaker 1 (02:08:10):
I was like, what, I'll give Andy a little shout out.
So we have a we have another record coming out
next year and Andy did the cover art for it.
So yeah, it's a It's another exciting project. I think
they've I think they've talked about it, so I don't

(02:08:30):
think I'm out of turn speaking on it. But another
amazing collaboration that I was involved with. It reaches back
to my childhood. It's Chuck d on the Rhymes and
John Densmore from The Doors Stop It, Stop It. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:08:49):
That's my favorite rock group of all time, The Doors.
So now, oh man, yeah, they they were.

Speaker 1 (02:08:58):
They were one of the first or one of the
early one ones. Anyway, they were both record store day
ambassad possibly the first ones. I don't quite remember, but yeah,
they how However, it worked out in the early days
of Record Store Day. They tapped Chuck and John Densmore
to be Record Store Day Ambassadors, and so they did

(02:09:19):
a couple of in store appearances together and just we're
chopping it up and you know, getting along really well
and kind of jokingly said, you know, hey, we should
do a project together. And and that's another long story
that we can get into it another time. But that
is But the record crazy, Yeah, the record comes out

(02:09:41):
next year. It's going to be one of the official
Record Store Day releases.

Speaker 2 (02:09:45):
And all right, I gotta get on that. I gotta
make sure my my fingers are working so I get
it in the cart before you know, disappears and problems.
I had to buy a record on one of these
like sales or whatever, and I'm not fast enough, so
I'm too busy looking at everything. Oh man, it's all
sold out already, all right.

Speaker 1 (02:10:02):
Yeah, I don't, Yeah, I don't. I'm not. It's it's
the it's the early planning stages yet. I'm still working
on the layout and the artwork and stuff. But but
the record's done, and uh, I don't know how many.
I don't know how many were pressing, but yeah, there,
Record Store Day is going to make a pretty big
deal about it, I think, and because the song, one

(02:10:25):
of the songs is going to be like I guess
they have a single two that they push like the
single of the year or whatever and so on. It's
it's going to be one of the one of those songs.
So that's kind of exciting to look for that.

Speaker 2 (02:10:38):
Everybody listen, that's like an exclusive right there. I did
not expect to get that nugget at the end of
this time.

Speaker 1 (02:10:43):
Yeah, yeah, crazy, crazy, crazy, more crazy stuff because I
can I can remember the first time my dad bought
me a Doors album, you know, he bought it for Christmas,
and he bought me the compilation album thirteen and just man,
that was I introduction to the Doors. Eighty eighty six,
eighty seven. Maybe I don't quite remember, but yeah, yeah,

(02:11:06):
so I got into the Door.

Speaker 2 (02:11:08):
So he took me to see the movie when it
came out, and I was.

Speaker 1 (02:11:11):
Like, yeah, I saw the movie, right yeah, and he's like,
I gotta.

Speaker 2 (02:11:13):
Get to you know, see what I'm into.

Speaker 7 (02:11:15):
I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, I remember going with my
dad to see the movie and uh yeah, so Chuck,
I remember Chuck called me up and say, hey, how
about we do how about we do a project with
John Densmore.

Speaker 2 (02:11:27):
What you just can't just say it casually and just
show shrug its, you know, it's like, yeah, would you
just say I love I know he I.

Speaker 1 (02:11:35):
Know he loves messing with me like that, like just
bringing like all the throwing all this crazy shit at me, Like,
oh yeah, Doc's gonna love this, you know, I know
he's gonna go work on it. Yeah, figure it out,
send me the track when it's ready.

Speaker 2 (02:11:49):
Oh okay, that's awesome.

Speaker 1 (02:11:52):
Man.

Speaker 2 (02:11:52):
I am definitely geeked to hear about that one that
finally does come out. So, man, everybody listening, make sure
you look for that and all the other things were
talking about. Follow Sea Doc online, check out the the
podcast at Sea Doc Again. Man, much respect and prospery
to coming on here and and chopping up here for
a couple hours on the on the on the show.
Here's this has been a blast, man, And uh, just

(02:12:13):
hearing all these great stories, dude, it's it's just I
kind of kick back a little bit and just let
you let you go, man, because it's there's so much
that you're saying that it's just really cool to hear
the origins of how You and Shuck out together and
these albums and the behind the scenes of you know
the Grid album. I gotta go find that CD now
and go play because now I got a different mindset
when I hear these songs. Is I know some of
the you know, behind the scenes stuff with it.

Speaker 1 (02:12:33):
So yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe another five years, I'll listen
to it again.

Speaker 2 (02:12:39):
Right, you already done. You already played it and lived
with this for years.

Speaker 1 (02:12:43):
I've heard it. I've heard it so much. I'm like,
I'm cool, but there it is. But yeah, but no,
I don't want to downplay the importance of that record
because it was such a Yeah, it was such an
important record for me and my career and and the
opportunities I was given to work on.

Speaker 2 (02:12:56):
So yeah, without without a doubt, Yeah, thank you man,
you got it, man, pleasure man, thanks so much for
coming on the show. Everybody check out Sea Doc and man,
just big salute for coming through and definitely appreciate your time.

Speaker 1 (02:13:07):
Man, No, any time, zway, We'll do it again. You
got it.

Speaker 2 (02:13:10):
Big big up the Sea Doc for coming on the show.
Was really looking forward to doing this episode with him
and having him on and yeah, It was just one
of those things where you have no idea how long
the time is going to be, and the time this
went so fast. But it was really excited to hear
all these stories and everything, and he's got so much
to talk about, and I can't wait to see more
from him and check out more that he's doing in

(02:13:30):
the future. A couple quick things that happened during the interview.
I've had this like weird thing where I live, where
the light's been flickering a couple times because I've had
a couple of storms here and such. When I was
recording with Sea Doc, and I didn't say it to
him because I didn't want to throw him off and
make a big deal of it, because it really wasn't
a big deal. But for about ten seconds, I was
like worried as shit because as I'm recording it about

(02:13:52):
I don't know forty five minutes into it, my computer
screen went black and the lights kind of flickered, and
I thought I lost everything we'd recorded up to that point,
but then it kind of turned back on. Nothing was gone,
even the sound didn't sound like anything. I don't think
he even caught it because it's connected to my phone
so my phone is not electric, so we're not you know,

(02:14:12):
nothing's happening there, so we're able to pick back up
like nothing happened. But during those like two or three seconds,
I was like, holy shit, I'm gonna have to do
this all over again and tell him I'm sorry, what
are you gonna do when the grid goes down? Just
like that public enemy help? But well, what was I
gonna do? This happened to me one time my man
King of Droid shout out to him. It was actually
on a recent episode, but the first time I had
him on the same thing happened. A crazy storm came

(02:14:33):
in and I swear to got We're like maybe five
minutes from finishing our conversation and the lights went out
for about a minute and a half and I lost
everything because I can't save it as I'm recording it.
It was just an awful thing. I had to redo
everything with him, and uh, I'm pretty sure the second
take was better than the first anyway, So not a
big deal, I'll said and done. But yeah, I thought
I thought I was gonna have a problem here. Thankfully,

(02:14:54):
nothing came of it. It was fine, and I didn't
even bring it up to see dot because there was
no point. We just kept going. It's like, why why
bring it up? Why stop him? Have him lose a
train of thought, and then had to try to pick
up again. It's fine, nothing was lost, We're all good.
But it makes me nervous as someone's recording it, and
then after the fact it's like, oh, man, where's that
part where cut off? Oh I can't even tell anything
was lost. We're good, And going back to what he

(02:15:16):
was talking about. With the internet, man, that was a
crazy time because you just start figuring out, Wow, I
could actually email people to communicate. I remember when I
was in college, I was emailing people to come on
our radio shows.

Speaker 1 (02:15:26):
You know.

Speaker 2 (02:15:26):
I was doing the sports show there and I did
Illinois or DJ Real one for a year, and we
were getting guests on there and just like you know,
sending out emails and going on message boards and trying
to find ideas. It was just so crazy back then,
how you only go on the internet for like an
hour or two because you only had so much time
to devote to sitting at a desk and looking at
a computer screen and dialing it up and it was
slow or you didn't even know why you're even looking

(02:15:48):
at it. I think MySpace is what made me like
more excited about going on the internet. I think that's
when I really started to get addicted to this shit.
And of course now everything's on a phone or an
iPad or whatever. It's not even and you look at
you know, it's not even a thought. Everything is right there,
accessible for you. But man, so many people listening now
are younger. You have no idea how crazy those early
days in the internet were. It was kind of a

(02:16:10):
it's kind of like the Wild West. Man. It's kind
of funny hearing him talk about those early days on
the enemy board and getting Chuckedy's attention and all that stuff.
So definitely can relate. Those are those are some crazy times.
And here we are now where he's look at your
phone and everything's accessible for you. Maybe too accessible. You know,
I don't call people anymore except for this podcast. That's
what time I actually call somebody. Come on here, so

(02:16:32):
big up the Sea Doc. Check out his podcast at
Sea Doc again. Check out all his music and everything.
And let's go ahead and wrap up the show The
Infinite Banterer podcast.

Speaker 1 (02:16:41):
What up you all?

Speaker 6 (02:16:41):
This is act robatic, You know, I possessed the human
capabilities and right now I'm dropping the infinite banter with
my homeboy DJ sound Way.

Speaker 1 (02:16:49):
Check them out, y'all, it's hard.

Speaker 2 (02:16:52):
For you to leave Ashol that is Kirk osso Vedo
doing what he does, and tell me it's time to
get out here. But before I do that, a couple
of quick things. Try to keep it brief, because I
feel like my goal was to not talk too much
in these little segments. I do that basically, you know,
book D the interview, but I'm not very good at
just you know, saying hi and by and just getting
out of here. I have too much on my brain.

(02:17:14):
So I just want to bring up in the last episode,
the episode about going to to conventions and stuff, I
mentioned I was gonna look for that apple cider Angry
Orchard Thriller pack, mainly because it featured one of the flavors.
It comes at four flavors, one of them was the
blood orange with the Jason mask on the can, and
I was able to find it at my local Binnie

(02:17:35):
shout out to them, and I haven't drank it yet.

Speaker 1 (02:17:37):
I have it.

Speaker 2 (02:17:38):
It's in the fridge, it's on ice, and I'm going
to open it and maybe I'll do a video for
it or something, and maybe i'm the next episode of this,
I'll talk about what it tastes like. So I was
really excited to find it. They had to order it
for me because they didn't have it. They got it
like the next day, which is mad crazy, as I
expecting them to be like eeah, it's gonna take like
weeks to get it, and I was like, whatever, if
I don't get it, I don't get it, not a
big deal. But I do have it. I'm going to

(02:17:59):
taste it because I don't I tease it in the
last episode. Maybe the next episode I'll discuss what it
tastes like. But I definitely plan on opening it on
a video and then drinking it and you know, sharing
my thoughts. So go ahead and check that out. If
you're a Jason fan like me, the thriller pack from
Angry Orchard, go go ahead and grab yourself some Jason
Cans while they're here. As a collector, I don't know
what I'm supposed to do with the can. Do I

(02:18:20):
keep it, do I throw it away? Do I put
in the recycle bin? Do I wash it out? And
just kind of put it in the cabinet, and then
my wife's like, what's this gross beer can doing in
our glass shelf? What the what the fuck is this?
What am I supposed to do with this thing after
I drink it? Ah decisions things that collectors have to
worry about. But speaking of collectors, go ahead and check

(02:18:42):
out on YouTube my show Things and Stuff where I
talk about toys and things, and check out the Super
seven length the sponsor here superseven dot com slash Infinite
banch Or podcast. You can find they just released an
MF Doom figure which I missed out on. I think
it's sold out, but hopefully they bring it back. So
many cool figures on there. They got so many outcast

(02:19:02):
combos on there. There's a new Alfredo with Freddie Gibbs
and Alchemist combo Pack, so go ahead and check him out.
Super sven dot com slash Infinite Banter podcast. Find my
episode with dj reel one on YouTube. That episode is
Belgian Beer and Beats episode nine. All right, talk about
all this stupid stuff I like, like collectibles and records
and things like that. We sip on some cast deals,

(02:19:22):
so definitely check out. Follow dj reel one on YouTube.
Listen to the show on all platforms, Rate and review
it social media at Infinite Banter podcast. Check out the
Spotify playlist. I know I'm forgetting some things, but go
do all those all those things that you can do
t help a podcast grow, and definitely check out podcasts
like seed Doc again featuring Sea Doc and my Man
Ultramax seven, who was on the show recently as well.

(02:19:44):
Next episode m Rock will be coming on. He is
someone who has worked with these two guys, so the
trilogy of episodes that features artists and producers that have
worked with Chuck d and more. And really looking forward
to talking to m Rock. He's from the area here,
so it's gonna be kind of cool talking about some
Chicago stuff and some beats and things like that and
production he's done. He's got a new album that just

(02:20:05):
came out, so we can talk about that as well.
So that's it for me. Thanks for checking out the show.
Sloop to c Doc. They go up to my man
DJ real one, check out his YouTube channel, and so
I do another one of these. I'll go ship on
some blood, Orange Angry Orchard, Jason Applesider beer. I'm out hey, asshole,
get off the road.

Speaker 1 (02:20:37):
Being on the Infinite banner with my man mark has
been a pleasure

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