218. Interviewing the Racine Paranormal Investigators

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
Imagine that this line higher tothis point in time, somewhere
here in the past, the timeline commuted into this tangent,
creating an alternate 1985 alternate view mean Einstein

(00:27):
reality for everyone else. Welcome back to Infinite Rabbit
Hole. I'm your host Jeremy, and today
we have a handful of guests in the house.
Before we get to them, you have to listen to us.

(00:51):
We already heard from me. Let's go ahead and hear from the
one Co host I have tonight. And that is the beautiful
reverse hair on their head, Jeff.
Yeah, I got, I got told the other day, Jeff, that they love
the nicknames I come up with foryou.

(01:11):
Who's they first of all? They that's all you got to.
OK, It's just they it's actuallynobody.
I said that myself. I just wanted to say that I love
the nicknames that I come up with for you.
Gotcha, because when I say they I'm talking about lizard people.
I feel like when you say they, it's like you're imaginary
friends. That's true.
It is. But yeah, they really like the

(01:34):
nicknames. I come up with you for you.
And today it's reverse hair on the head guy.
Sick. Yep, that's you.
Yeah, well, I'm, I'm, I'm good. I'm great.
I'm here. Do anything fun this weekend,
man. No, not really.
I was lazy. I worked all week.
It sucked. So yesterday I just sat around.

(01:57):
Today I went and saw mom and Crystal's mom and came home and
sat around. Nice, nice.
Well, I went to my boys soccer game a few towns away.
I drastically changed the plans for the new podcast coming out
on July 1st. Change the name, change the

(02:19):
thumbnail, change literally everything about it.
All in one day. Yeah, that's all I did.
Sick. So that's all the updates.
We don't have Jake here today. Jake unfortunately had to fly
out to California to attend a funeral for family, so he's not

(02:40):
here, but we wish him the best. But we do have 3 guests in the
house. They are the Racine Paranormal
Investigators, RPI for short, and we have Ron, Corey and
Arthur. Now fun story, we actually got

(03:04):
in touch with them through a good friend of of the show,
actually an official member of the show, Skeeter, who is our
our electronics guy. The guy who saved our asses at
UFO days by taking an ancient piece of visual equipment and

(03:24):
turning it into passable equipment to make it look like
we actually knew what we were doing.
So Skeeter has been requesting this for a very long time.
Pushing me and pushing me and pushing me.
And we finally got it to happen.Ron and I have been talking.
Finally made it work. So without further ado, let's

(03:46):
start with Ron. Ron, welcome to the infinite
rabbit hole, man. How's it going?
Thank. You so much.
Thank you so much. Happy Mother's Day to all the
mothers out there. Thank you so much for having us
on here. Special shout out to Skeeter
for, for getting us together. Appreciate that.

(04:07):
Yeah, it's, it's been something else getting it, getting it all
ironed out. But I'm glad we were able to get
this all worked out. Yeah man, it it, it took a
minute, but it is what it is. Sometimes these things just
aren't the easiest to put together.
And believe it or not, this thiswas not the hardest lineup I've

(04:31):
ever had to do. I I'm telling you that there's
been a lot harder in the past. So by any means, this this was
this was not that bad. But Ron, before we come back to
you and hear a little bit about the story of RPI, let's go ahead
and get into your, your, your team here.

(04:55):
We're going to start off with the first one to show up, which
is Arthur. Arthur, how you doing today?
Good. And yourself.
Doing great, Arthur. Let's hear just a little bit
about who who you are and what you bring to the RPI team.
I've been doing paranormal investigating since I was 18, so
about close to 40 years now. Got into demonology work through

(05:22):
some very famous people and Ron and I actually connected through
a mutual friend and I kind of like it's OK for me to say this.
Ron, I kind of like nurtured thegroup, so to speak, to kind of
like steer them in AI mean there, there's a lot of talent

(05:42):
there, there's a lot of enthusiasm, but it was like
first trying to hurt squirrels and I kind of like focus them in
and and got them to be a really good team.
And they're very good at what they do.
I had my own team when I lived in Waukesha for many years.

(06:03):
So I still do work with Ron. I do work with the church.
They they call me, you know, if they got a question about a
possible demonic case or possession case or something
like that, they have other groups call me for stuff like
that. So yeah, that's, that's kind of
where where I sit with this. Very cool.

(06:26):
So, so you're, you're you're you're a demonologist, Yes.
How? How did you get into that?
Believe it or not, from LorraineWarren.
Really, Yes. I didn't think we were going to
go down this path tonight. Well this was like got eons ago.

(06:47):
I think it had to be close to almost 40 years ago.
I was just, I was asked to help out on a case just back then is
by word of mouth. There was no Internet or
anything like that. And they had a bunch of people
there. And at that time, I had already
been doing investigating for like a couple years.
And the issue I always ran into was people who were supposedly

(07:11):
psychic. They were like always giving me
the cold shoulder. And I never knew why.
So I just thought, OK, they think they're better than
everybody else. And lo and behold, she's on this
case. We're taking a break.
And I was just sitting there eating my lunch and she came up
to me and sat next to me. And I would give her the time of
day. And she goes, I don't, I think

(07:31):
you don't like me too much. Like to be honest with you, I
don't like any psychic. I'm like, they're always give me
the cold shoulder. I don't I'm not assuming that
they think they're better than Iam or not.
And she goes, I know why they'renot talking to you and giving
you. She goes, I can't read you.
She goes, nobody can. And from there, we just started.
We had conversations and she said that you have a good gift

(07:55):
of reading. It's not so much an aura.
It's entered people's energy. And that's like different colors
of the spectrum from black to white.
And she and a couple other well known psychics, they kind of
like coached me on it. And yeah, that's how I kind of
got started with it. We're going to come back to that

(08:17):
because the, the whole Lorraine and Ed Warren thing is a is a
very interesting thing. I'd like to hear more about your
thoughts on Lorraine and Ed and and the whole, the, the, the
background there and, and what you, your personal thoughts and
feelings are on on their whole story and everything.

(08:38):
But I want to get the Corey, here it is.
Corey, yes. Hi how you doing?
I'm great. How are you good?
So who? Who are you and what do you
bring to RPII? Don't even know why I'm here

(09:00):
today. No, I'm just joking.
What? Well, I'm just, I've had
personal experiences for a long time.
Like I was saying before we started the show, like when I
lived in Florida, I worked at a violent sexual predators camp in

(09:20):
Arcadia, FL. And that's where I'd seen my
first shadow figure. And I've always been interested
in the paranormal and I met Ron a few years back and I wound up
bullying my way into the group and, and here I am.
You know, we've been investigating.

(09:42):
I went from, you know, this nervous person not knowing what
exactly, exactly getting into todoing cases and interviews and,
you know, helping Ron run, run the show.

(10:04):
How so? So like an assistant kind of
thing? Whatever Ron needs me to do,
I'm, I'm there. When I'm one of the squirrels.
I'm enthusiastic. And you know, I'm, I'm just all
over the place, so. OK, see, I, I'm sure, I'm sure

(10:27):
Arthur has his, his way of, of nurturing.
Now, the way Jeff nurtures it, it involves taking off his shirt
and it's, it's weird. But mine is more like scolding.
You can ask Ron about that, yeah.
All right, Ron, thanks brother man back back to you.

(10:47):
Give me you're you're you're thebig guy, right?
You're you're you're the the creator of RPI the the founder,
the owner. What it what is the Racine
Paranormal investigators Give give me the the back story and
where you guys are at today? Back in back in 2014, I was I'm

(11:12):
on mobile DJ just like Skeeter is and I was DJ ING and I got
ready to load up my van outside of the Masonic Temple here in
Racine. And there you go, Jeff.
And so I was loading my van up and and I got all ready to go.
It was like 20° out, freezing wind chill, God knows what, and

(11:37):
got my my van and I didn't have a window.
I didn't have a mirror on the the front window, but I had the
two mirrors, one on this side, one on that side.
So I got ready to back up. So I checked the one mirror like
everybody else does before they had the TV screens in the in the
consoles. And I looked on the left side,
got ready to back up and I saw this tall man wearing kind of

(12:01):
like a fedora hat, all black leather looking trench coat
jacket or something. And I saw this, this individual
go from one mirror all the way into the next mirror.
And I'm like, what the hell, I almost hit this guy, you know,
So I got I got out and I went togo look for him.
And in Racine, the parking lot from from that place to used to

(12:22):
be Hope City church is, is there's no way this guy could
have ran in a trench coat to getfrom one gets my car or from my
car into this place. So it's like, what the heck.
So I saw the lady that runs the place at the time, Wendy
Spencer's Wendy Spencer, and shesaid that, oh, it's probably

(12:42):
David. David likes to hang out inside
the stuff. Yes, definitely.
That was like, he was like David, this guy that used to
live there, it's probably him hanging out by the stairwell
because he's like likes to do that.
So like, oh, OK, that makes me alittle worried.
So I started doing some researchon Facebook and I found a

(13:03):
paranormal page called Racine Paranormal friends.
Some guy ran it. There was no post recently.
So I asked if I could assist and, you know, make some posts
and ask some questions and this and that and, and there was a
few of us that are in the that are still in the group.
And I was like, hey, what do youguys think about us getting
together sometimes? So we got together, we met up,

(13:25):
then we started Racine Paranormal investigators.
It was like 5 or 6 of us. And after that we've we were
busy. We've been busy ever since.
Hasn't been too busy lately. Seems like after COVID things
are a little weird even even as far as investigations are
concerned. But we've been together since

(13:47):
2014, almost had ATV show in 2018.
We signed the papers and everything to go forward with
the show from Rugged Productionsout of Los Angeles that came out
from LA, met with us and everything, everything was set.
And then we got ready to do the sizzle reel and they went ahead

(14:07):
and canned us. So yeah, yeah, we came really
close. So you know, that's.
Pretty neat man. We're we're active.
We're active on social media as much as possible.
We also have Wisconsin paranormal radio show that we we
host myself, Arthur and Katie, which is another founding

(14:28):
member. And we've we've brought Ed
Lauren, Lauren's son-in-law on that show, Tony.
So yeah. So we've been busy.
That's, that's, that's cool. And we just read a poster animal

(14:49):
conference last year. So you started off in Racine?
Yeah. How quick did it take for you to
expand outside of that? Well, we ran into situations
where people are moving out of town such as like art and you
know, art was kind of like, well, I mean, I'm up here.

(15:11):
I mean, I can help, you know, but you know, it's may not be
able to go to investigations. And for me as a, as him being a
mentor, I have no problem with him staying, you know what I
mean? And and some of the others too,
that have moved. Some people have moved and came
back, you know, and if I see qualities in somebody, it's very
hard for me to let them go, as Corey may know.

(15:33):
And yeah. You know.
I keep them. I, you know, try to keep, keep
the the team intact even if they're out of town.
We have somebody in Madison in our group too.
So the reason called RPI, they're kind of still in their
area. How many how many investigators

(15:55):
do you have on the team now? We have 16, 16, yeah.
And how often would you say you do investigations?
It can range. We've had some months, we do
three at a time in a month and then all of a sudden completely

(16:19):
quiet for a month to two. You know, it can change very
quickly. And then we may go out to
different locations, such as we've been in Waverly Hills,
down in Kentucky, we've been to the Ohio State reformatory,
Corey and I. That's cool.
Which was amazing by the way, sent you some photos of that
that Corey had in the video. That was the Shawshank

(16:43):
Redemption. It was filmed there and Air
Force One where the, the the kingpin or whoever it was the
the the bad guy was coming out of prison.
That shot right there was from Ohio City Reformatory.
Yeah. And in court you've been to,
let's see, Arlington, right or not, Arlington moving to.

(17:08):
Gettysburg. Yeah.
Gettysburg. Gettysburg, Yeah.
You're breaking up, Bron. Let's see, am I?
You are. Yeah, we.
You got AOL over there round. So here's here's the pictures
that that were sent to me. What is this that we're looking
at here? That was just that was the Ohio

(17:31):
State reformatory and I can't remember exactly which black it
was, but it was just a shot right there in front.
They had like a pit like it was like down to a tunnel system.
They had it fenced off where youcouldn't get up there.
And then there was just just looking down of the cell blocks.

(17:52):
It wasn't anything paranormal. It was just.
Was that pit there when when thereformatory was active?
I do believe so, yeah. That's crazy.
Yeah, that's that's that's not good.
That's not the code. I'm sure they had probably a
great or something over it at that time.

(18:13):
Yeah, it's. Let's see.
What else we got here? So what's, what's going on here?
Now? This was oh, right here.
Yeah, that's me. Yeah, right behind my head.
We were at Dobbin Inn. It's a restaurant in Gettysburg.
And me and another investigator,my friend Sarah, we were just.

(18:39):
We went there before we went to Ohio State and I was taking
selfies and, you know, I took a bunch of them and trying to find
one that I looked halfway decentand in the background, like
there was three in a row. And this showed up behind me.
And I don't know if if Ron sent you the other picture, but there

(19:05):
was a picture of a figure that was taken by another customer
there and it looked just like there was like an all blackout
like like a shadow figure. But you can see that they were
in period clothing. It's not one of those.
But anyhow, it matched whatever that was behind my head standing

(19:30):
there. What's going on here?
That's yours, Ron. Yeah, I thought I sense it.
Let's see here. Oh yeah, here.
Yeah. Just sent it.
Was that at Shakers Run? Oh, I just sent that that over.

(19:57):
This right here is at Brossman'sbar out in Franksville.
And what I did was I took my IR light from like a security
camera and. Just by chance, I crossed over
with my handheld camera and thisimage came up and I can't tell
if it's an Indian or if it's maybe like a, a black servant or

(20:19):
something or what. But you could see that there's
something's there. I don't know if you if you look,
there's like a like a like Indians, maybe choker kind of
thing, some type of garment wearing.
But the next photo kind of givesa a larger background.
Let me see here. And I just sent you over the the

(20:42):
other one, the other photo for Corey.
I thought, I thought I sent it. This one here.
Yes, this one here, that was a picture that another customer

(21:05):
had taken and it was a picture of a picture.
But that black figure in the center is what they they think
is haunting that that restaurant.
And it just looked so eerily similar to the shadow that was
manifesting behind my head to me, you know, I mean.

(21:30):
So were you sitting at this bar right here?
Is this where you were sitting? Actually, I was sitting like
around, just down farther. Yes, I was sitting in around in
that area. This picture was taken.
It was the restaurants picture that they had.
So I wasn't here during this time.

(21:54):
It was one of their evidence pictures because it is a
reported haunted location. And so I had I had just taken a
picture of it and then just because I thought it was a cool
picture. And then I was sitting there
taking, like I said, selfies andalso in that shadow showed up in

(22:15):
the third picture behind my head.
I mean, good as you may, you know, Interesting.
Interesting. I have, I've, I've only had one
experience that you could call paranormal in nature.
I haven't really had much in, inthe way of like spirits or, you

(22:41):
know, ghosts, right? I was on deployment and there
were stories going around of of a little girl and a janitor on
this hospital shift that I was on.
And I show you not, I'm dead asleep one night and I feel
somebody tuck my toe and I wake up and I'm like, I mean, guys do

(23:05):
weird stuff all the time, right?Trust me, that's not the
weirdest thing that's happened to me, but I'm like y'all need
to knock that shit off. And then all of a sudden this
little girl chuckle just rings out in the middle of the
barracks and it I was like that's weird, really weird.

(23:31):
I don't think any of the grown men in the barracks could have
done that. It was, it was odd.
It's the only thing that I ever had in my life that I can even
say came anywhere near a paranormal experience with a
spirit or anything like that. So I don't have a lot to to
compare that to. But of course, you know, we have

(23:55):
talked about this kind of stuff plenty of times here on The
Infinite Rabbit Hole and we all have our theories.
What, what are you guys looking at?
What, what, what are you guys looking at as a possibility when
you're investigating this stuff?Like what, what, where are your
thoughts at for the answer behind this stuff?

(24:18):
What? What are these things?
Kurt, you want to go into that? Well, that's that's a can of
worms. Oh, yeah, like Ron knows is my
my favorite saying is, is when you're doing investigations like
the old peeling the onion thing.So it's you look at the logical

(24:40):
stuff first. Once you discount that, then you
got to start looking at everything else.
So you got to take it one step at a time.
You can't go off in 800 different directions if it's
actual physical contact, like with what you had it it did you
say this was on a ship? Yeah.

(25:00):
It was it was on the IT was literally on the the bottom
level where the the male barracks is the the east E5 and
below barracks of the US NSA Comfort which is the big white
hospital ship with with the Red Cross on it.
See, I would like to look at thehistory of that ship.

(25:20):
But being a hospital ship, did they take care of civilians too?
That the mission that I was on was was a civilian mission.
Yeah, it, it could be from a kidthat was traumatized on that
shit, you know, not from you guys, but, you know, brought on
the ship from some kind of trauma or whatever, maybe passed

(25:42):
away during surgery, after surgery, recovery, whatever.
So she's still lingering there. So let's, let's dig.
Let's dig because we we like to go down little tangents here.
Great. So what I'm picking up is that

(26:02):
you guys are are are under you guys are playing around with the
assumption that these things areare spirits as in defined as in
the the human spirit. You know that that would be the
typical definition. If you can rule out all of the
rational explanations, that's the next step, yeah.

(26:25):
OK, we went to debunk. 1st. Cool, Jeff, you got anything?
I mean, you know, I'm not necessarily the paranormal guy.
I'm, you know, it's not really my thing.
I've only actually had one experience.

(26:46):
I wouldn't even call it paranormal.
It was just more of a maybe it was, I don't know, but I'm going
to kind of just lean into what Ialways think with these things
is that it is probably either like some demonic or
interdimensional entities. That's kind of like where my
thought always goes to 1st when I hear anything about ghosts or
paranormal activity or like gin of some kind, like some

(27:09):
trickster entities, you know, that would like you to think
that it's some kind of person's soul or spirit or whatever, but
it's really not. That's kind of my gut reaction.
And so go ahead, Corey. And say like really with the
paranormal, the answer's like, yes, like it could be anything,

(27:33):
you know, and it could be, you know, absolutely nothing.
You know, we try to come with a,with a scientific approach, but
each case is, is so different. I mean, we could be dealing with
something that's just like a time stamp, like it's just a
loop. Like, like this little old lady

(27:55):
went into the kitchen every day and made coffee and for whatever
reason it we got recorded. And there's still you can see
them or hear them or something of the same little old lady, you
know, 50 years later, going intoher kitchen and making a cup of
coffee to where like some other entities, you know, is it

(28:18):
demonic? You know, I mean, that was
thrown around a quite a bit, but, you know, and but and what
is demonic? Is that actually demons from
hell? Or is it an evil entity from
another dimension, you know, that somehow crossed over?
We don't know. And that's what we're trying to

(28:38):
to find out, you know, and that's what keeps us going to
keep on figuring, trying to figure this all out, you know.
And The thing is, to be honest, we probably never will.
But man, it's fun trying. Yeah, no, I, I chase that all
the time too. I, it's funny because I get
asked that quite a bit, you know, why do you look into this

(29:02):
stuff? And, you know, I, I always
answer, you know, probably neverknow the answer to any of this,
but just looking into it and, and having these, these fun
conversations about, about the possibilities of them and
hearing people's, the, the way that they decipher some of the
information and, and the outcomes that they come up with

(29:24):
is, is fun in its own way, right.
And then, and then you take the way that they've deciphered it
and you're like, man, wow, that makes a lot of sense.
And, and, and it's a connection that you've never made before.
And now that you've you've interpreted that connection and
you've injected it into the connections that you've already
made on your own, now you can create a new interpretation of

(29:48):
the situation. And come up.
With a whole new answer to go ahead.
No, go ahead. Go ahead, go ahead.
Sorry. Go ahead, Jeremy.
No, I, I was pretty much done. I was just going to say it's,
it's, it's fun to, you know, to use other people's tools and to
come up with these, these things.
And, and you know, part of the fun is that a lot of this will

(30:10):
never, ever be answered. And that, that's, that's why the
infinite rabbit hole is such a fun episode or podcast to do
because the, all the Co hosts that we've ever had on the show
and all the Co hosts that are onthe show right now, including
Jake, who's not with us tonight.We all have different points of

(30:32):
views on things. But yet I can tell you one
thing. I've I've learned things from
both of Jeff and Jake and all other Co hosts that I've ever
had on here that I still use in the way I interpret the unknown.
And I, I've done that with multiple guests and everything.
And it's just, it's, it's a lot of fun.

(30:54):
So Corey, I know exactly what you're talking about.
I've literally built this podcast on that same exact
premise. I love it.
Can I interject something to your listeners then?
Yeah, absolutely. It's.
Along that line, Ron has heard me say this a million times.
Anybody, I don't care if it's the paranormal world, demonic

(31:14):
world, whatever you want to callit, anybody says that they're a
professional and they know everything.
Run from them. Run away fast.
That's I've been doing this for almost 40 years and I'm the
first to admit I don't know everything.
I, I sometimes I get a little, alittle, what's the best way to

(31:35):
put it, a little passionate about that, that particular
piece because I, I hate it. I hate when people are like, I'm
a professional Bigfoot hunter. Like, no, no, the fuck you're

(31:55):
not, right. Where's your big feets at, man?
Exactly. They say they know everything.
You know, like I said, run. Just just run from those people.
You know, I, I hate that crap, man.
I do like I, I'm never going to tell you that I'm a professional
or anything. I, I don't have a degree.

(32:16):
I, you know, I, I love physics. I love it.
I love all kinds of good math and science and everything, but
I've never been to college for any of it.
Actually, I did. I got kicked out, but that's
another story. Partied a little too hard and I

(32:37):
I I would never ever go to anybody and say I'm a
professional. You need to listen to what I got
to say. It's I think it's absolutely
hilarious when people are like, you need to buy my book because
I am a professional on this unknown thing that has no
answer. I.
Can't exactly prove that. It's like, yes.

(33:00):
So just just, that was just a little tidbit for your listeners
and that, yeah, someone tells you that.
Just run, Yeah. Don't take help from them.
Don't you know, Don't ask them to help you.
Just not smile, nod and walk away.
Speaking of, this is a very goodsegue, unless Ron, did you have
anything else that you wanted toto bring in?

(33:23):
Yeah. I just, I just want to say this
that we, we go on a caring approach, especially when we're
doing homes, home investigations.
Could we, because we do a lot more of those than going to, you
know, destination type, you know, hauntings or whatnot.
So we, we come in with, with theattitude of, Hey, how can I help
you? You know, we referred them to

(33:44):
Human Services and different things.
We've got them help, assistance and when we could, and sometimes
they just needed something to talk to outside of, you know,
what we're doing as far as investigating.
We don't come in with the the guy named starts with AZ.
We don't come in with the the whole come at me bro attitude.

(34:05):
We come in and say, hey, you know, we're here to help.
Zach, Zachary. So we don't come.
Zachary come douchebag that. Guy yeah, it's it's funny
because I, I mean I know one of the guys on the real cool dude
but but yeah, we don't we don't do that.
We come in caring and whatnot and then what we do is we do a

(34:27):
walkthrough and our thought is this is we come in with a
passive provoking, basically kind of walk around with a
Bible, actually read the Bible and, and see if there's any
reactions to the house. And if there is, then we, we
investigate further. But that's something a little

(34:47):
bit more into it. We also do an actual interview
with them. Corey and I, we, a lot of times
what we'll do is we'll meet withthe meet with them first and
then set up another day. So then it gives time to see if
there's any reactions to us showing up and sometimes there
is. So that kind of helps us, you
know, that better idea what's going on.
So we try to come in with an open mind and help.

(35:10):
Them. Go ahead.
I have a feeling that Jake's going to end up listening to
this episode and then he's goingto be like, we got to have them
back on because I didn't get to ask them any questions.
Jake is our, he's a, he's a Christian guy.
So he looks at all the unknowns and everything that we talk
about through the Christian viewpoint.
So this was, this was a, you know, this was a, an episode

(35:33):
that he was looking forward to being on, but unfortunately he
had to, to do something. What kind of reactions do you
get specifically when you, when you read off Bible verses is
what, what are you looking for? And then what?
Let's also hear about some of your strongest reactions.

(35:55):
And then I also want to know, sorry, I'm piling them all up on
you, but I want to make sure I get them out because I'm going
to lose track of them. I want to know how often do you
get a response to a Bible verse?Well, we had a case one.
Time. You.
Me. Yeah, let me just, yeah, I just
want to say this one case real quick is we had, we had a case

(36:18):
one time where a woman was getting scratched all over her
body Marks and whatnot. And I and I told her, I think I
told you about this before. Art kind of lead me what to do.
And we run around the house and with the EMF detector, which
stands for electronic, electronic magnetic fields,

(36:40):
basically just kind of checking the areas.
And we weren't getting no baseline readings at all and
anything, nothing was working. Corey, were you with me on this
one? No, OK, that's before me.
Yeah, it might be before you. And so we're this.
Is BC. Yeah.
So nothing came up. And it's like, OK, so when we

(37:03):
got there, went over everything and then I said let's have a
seat, you know, we'll talk some more.
So we had seat and I said, you have a Bible.
So yeah, I'm like, OK, I said, can you take it out?
Now, if she has a Bible, then I have an idea that she kind of
knows how to read it, you know? So she pulled the Bible out and

(37:23):
I said, can you do me a favor? Can you read?
I picked the I picked the somewhere in the Bible.
I said, can you read this? And she started stuttering
through the words of the Bible. Then I was like, you OK?
She goes, yeah, I'm just kind of, well, not feeling so great.

(37:44):
I'm like, OK, all right, we'll try a little harder because,
yeah, she went a little bit moreinto it.
And then I said, OK, I'm going to read it.
So I started reading it. And then right away she was
like, get out of my house, you know, F you get the hell out.
Time to go already yelling and everything.
The husbands are like, they're stay, stay, stay.

(38:06):
I'm like, OK, all right, cool, We'll stay.
And then like what's out in the living room?
I ran to the bathroom and I'm calling the reverend because we
work with a reverend called, we work with a reverend out out of
Madison sometimes. And I called the reverend and
said, hey, we got, we got something going on over here.
I don't know what it is. So he's asking some questions
and whatnot. The reverend came, I believe the

(38:27):
next day came and did a did an exorcism on her and she's been
OK ever since. But Art and I have been to a few
exorcisms where we've been sent over to to assist the reverend
before. And Corey's been, you've been to
one, right, Corey? Or two.
Right. I was with one.

(38:47):
Yeah, yeah, the one that. Was interesting that was
interesting because remember it was they were trying to she was
trying to blame COVID and or the.
Yeah, me and Siri had went thereto you guys called us in to
assist and it was a woman. It was she lived there with her
dog and the I can't remember exactly what her what she was

(39:13):
saying she was experiencing, butI know she had said I'm a dog
person. I don't know if you can hear my
dogs in the background there. Whatever was there was messing
with her dog. And as they were, we had a
priest, what was his name? Who was your Ron?

(39:38):
Who? A Reverend Michaels.
He was doing the exorcism. And we were there to witness and
to have to, if we had to restrain her at all.
And the dog was in the other room and you could hear
something messing with that dog,like it wasn't with her.
It was like going into the room and she was an older.

(39:58):
It was an older dog. And it was just like, you could
just hear it going back and forth.
Like, she would start talking weird, and then the dog would
start whimpering like somebody was hitting it or something.
And the reverend he, you know, did his prayers.

(40:19):
He did the rites of the exorcism, like the small,
shorter version, whatever that is.
And she started feeling better. And as far as I know, I mean, I
don't think she's called back atall.
We think that it must have worked.

(40:41):
Another case that we had, we don't know exactly what was
there. There's this woman, She was in
the military, her and her roommate, and she was having
things move around her house. She was seeing shadows.
There are sounds like somebody was messing with her dogs like

(41:07):
toys. The cameras were being moved.
And while we were there doing aninvestigation, I was heading to
the restroom and I heard as soonas I turned into this hallway, I
had a growl in my ear and I asked Rhonda, you know, I just

(41:28):
stopped to my tracks. I was like Ron, I said, hit me
with the holy water right now and and it stopped.
But that after, you know, I didn't hear anything else.
I didn't I never made it to the bathroom like it I mean, it
scared me so bad. And but that night it followed

(41:51):
home, another one of our investigators, she started
having nightmares. She was getting scratched.
And it it took a long time. I don't know if she's ever
really gotten away from it. And my other friend Sarah, that
the one that I went to Gettysburg with, me and her did

(42:13):
the interview for this woman andit too, followed her home and it
was affecting her dreams. She had gotten some scratches.
There was things starting to move around.
I don't know why I didn't followme.
I don't know if it's because, you know, I was like, you know,
hit me with that holy water or what, but it didn't follow me.

(42:38):
But my friend Sarah claims that she still sees it out of the
corner of her eyes here and there.
Yeah, that was, that was wild. And actually we ended up talking
to a medium member. Remember Corey?
We, we ended up talking to a medium and they, we went on that
Google images or Google, Google Maps and you can actually see

(43:00):
the people in the windows, the spirit in the windows, the mail,
and then the little boy in the wheelchair.
It's crazy. I wish I could find that photo
somewhere, but it. Was like the like when the house
was put up for sale, you could see the shadows.
What were? You going to say so?

(43:23):
No, go ahead. I don't know.
I don't know. Jeremy was just asking how we do
the past provoking stuff. And you know, it's it's not.
Ron kind of gave a Reader's Digest version, which works the
nice. Everyone goes well, so you
automatically everything's demonic.
No, you can ask Ron. You can ask someone that's been

(43:45):
in this Group A long time. I'm the most skeptical person in
the world. It's like you have to prove it
to me before I'm going to say, yeah, this is demonic.
But there's different things we can do.
The best provoking is 1. I usually with the EMF or any of
those kind of tools. If every house is going to have

(44:05):
some kind of EMF field in it, whether it's from appliances,
whatever. But if it's completely dead and
and then you know you got a working EMF meeting, it's
completely dead. Even if you go up to an outlet
or no polite on the the stove ormicrowave and there's nothing
there, it's a good indication something's trying to hide from

(44:25):
you. Also when you read the Bible
verses, I always have audio recorder someone following me
around with an audio recorder because you can't always hear
stuff right away either. Everyone always assumes that
with a demon. It's a deep growl noise.
A lot of times it's actually thebest way to describe it.

(44:46):
Call it a witch's cackle. It's very high pitched.
So you'll get that you'll you can get a growl most of the
time. It's like the witch's cackle.
And there's one time things can be moved that you don't notice.
Ron knows, I think I told him this one.
I was looking into a case for a church and it was me and a guy

(45:09):
who I used to work with in Marksand Louise and we're passive
provoking and I I usually when Igo out, I wear a cross necklace.
And so we're going on passive provoking.
We didn't hear anything and we're cleaning up our gear and
also Louise turns white as a ghost and I'm like, you OK, It
was look at your necklace. And I go to grab my necklace and

(45:31):
they ain't there. I'm like, what the it's actually
wrapped around my belt loops. I never took my belt off.
I'm like, oh, that's interesting.
So we might have something here.Weird.
So, so it's, it's, it's not automatic.
It's not like a 5 minute thing. I can see, I feel like Jeff's
over there going uh huh, uh huh,uh huh.
Sure. It's not a 5 minute thing.

(45:53):
This takes time to so, you know,nail these things down.
Yeah. Jeff is sleepy.
No, I'm, you know, it's just, I'm not even skeptical of I've
said this before on the show. I'm not skeptical that the
things are happening. I guess I'm just more, I think I
have a bigger problem with it's like a semantic issue for me,

(46:14):
right? Like say using the word demonic,
right? Or using the word spirit, even
like anything like that. You automatically like going
back to what Corey was saying, like we have no idea what this
is. We probably never will know what
this is, right? We could speculate forever and
when we start slapping certain labels on things like it just
gives like this idea of what this is.

(46:35):
And I think that's the issue that I have, right?
I, I do think people are having all kinds of experiences and
spooky shit is definitely happening.
And I do believe in like call itevil entities, right?
Demonic entities, if you will. So I think it's all happening.
It's just it's hard for me to all of my experiences for any of

(46:55):
this stuff is what's on Discovery Channel, right?
So. That's what you'll get.
You know the flip side of this. It's it's understandable and I
would, I always tell people is that what I'm talking?
Well, go ahead, Art. I always tell people I don't
expect them to believe or understand what I do or what we

(47:18):
do. And most people won't until you
experience something yourself, which I hope you never do.
But you know, and that may change your mind and may not.
I mean, I've had several people over the years who I've known
personally and they'll, they used to just needle me all the
time thinking I'm just a crackpot and everything else.

(47:39):
And then all of a sudden they'rerunning to me going, hey, yeah,
you need to come over to my house.
I think you got a ghost chair. And I go, I'd be a smart ass
about it. I'd go, hey, you don't believe
in ghosts. Remember, there's no such thing.
So if as long as you're not going to yo poo poo what we do,
I'm not gonna tell you you're right or wrong either, you know?

(48:00):
Yeah. For sure.
I mean, listen, I'm the hardcoreconspiracy guy, right?
Like I'm the first one to go super deep on like shit that you
probably call me crazy in an instant for it's true.
No, for real. Like I'll go, you'll be like,
wow, get this guy off here. But and again, it's not that I
don't think shit's happening. I mean, I've had what an

(48:21):
experience before. I've talked to Jeremy about
this. You know, I had a a nightmare
once and in that nightmare therewas like a six foot tall, call
it like a grey alien, but just super scary, like a monster,
right, tall, skinny grey alien monster type thing.
And it got right in my face, right.
And it was chasing kids out of adoor and I tried to shut the

(48:43):
door behind these kids and it bursted.
The door got got in my face. I wake up and everything is
normal. I'm like, holy shit, that was a
crazy dream. And in that moment I felt like a
weird tugging on the bottom of the blanket by my foot.
And I was like, oh shit, let me sit up to see what this is.
And I couldn't move. And then I woke up again and

(49:04):
everything was in the exact sameposition and like everything was
fine. And I was like, whoa, like, that
was the craziest. Thing that's ever.
Had 6 foot and grey. Are you sure that wasn't Al
Gore? Great segue.
Not not the Al Gore thing, but great, great segue.
Corey, you said that one of yourfirst experiences was with a

(49:25):
shadow person, correct? Right.
Now shadow people are are one ofthe more more common cases when
it comes to the paranormal on ona wide range of, you know,

(49:46):
people, right? It's it's kind of kind of kind
of to blend Jeff's story and andCorey, your experience.
And I'm sure Ron and Arthur haveprobably had their run insurance
with, with shadow people or the hat man or even.
But where I'm going with this is, is sleep paralysis and the

(50:10):
story of the old hag or the as you know, when you get into
religion or even ancient, you'restarting to get into the, the
incubus and the succubus side ofthings.
Now, a lot of lore ties the incubus and the succubus in with

(50:33):
the old hag or, you know, just the, the Gray shadowy figure
that you see with the sleep paralysis phenomenon.
You know, like Jeff woke up, he wasn't able to move.
That is a common symptom with sleep paralysis.
It's right there in the in the name and one of the most common
things that you see visually in sleep paralysis is a shadowy

(50:57):
figure. Sometimes it sits on your chest
and creates a, a a feeling of your chest being sunken in and
and and and and closing in on your on your on your Airways
now, and Jeff, I'm I'm just saying that I mean, sleep
paralysis comes in all many different shapes, sizes and

(51:18):
forms, man, It's it. There's really not a lot and it
seems to have a a cultural effect, right.
Like the old hag is a well I. Don't even think of a shadow
person because like. Well, no, because you you said
you said you were up and moving with it in your dream.
In the dream I saw the thing andI could tell you in vivid

(51:39):
detail, like it's skin texture and the veins and the, you know,
like this, the oiliness on the skin, like it was clearly
defined figure. It was like a fucking monster,
you know? So believe, believe it or not,
right now I know Slender Man is a digital urban legend, right?
That is technically not in existence.

(52:02):
It is something that has broughtupon to our beliefs and lore.
Now by way of what is it 4 Chan or Reddit?
Right. It's one of those modern
technologies that brought this thing on creepypasta, if you
will. But even that, if you go back,

(52:23):
right, and even if you go forward in time, some people
will even tell you that it's a tulpa and that it now exists
because we talk about it so much.
But then you have the stories ofdamn what's what?
You have the old, the nursery rhyme or the, the, the song
Peter Piper, right where Peter would go out into the street

(52:48):
with his, with his pipe and, andplay it and all the kids would
follow him through the, through the, the streets and they would
follow him right into the water and they drown.
Well, there's there's actual historical evidence and records
of something similar like that happening at one point, which I

(53:11):
did cover in in my Slender man episode that I did now that
right there Jeff is a tall slender person chasing children.
Then you have smiling Sam, whichis a a Native American lore also
a tall slender person that targets children.

(53:35):
Slender man, tall, slender person that targets children.
This is these are just three examples of a a very common
trope throughout history, time and location throughout the
entire planet of this being a thing.
Now, what you saw may feel unique, but it's not right.

(54:00):
It's but I'm not saying it's notsomething that's not tangible
like they could be something. That's what that's what I'm
trying to get to is that there'sall these phenomenon that happen
and I was, I was going to get towhether or not they believe that

(54:21):
something like what you, what you experienced could be
something tied into what Corey experienced with Shadow Man or
something that they've received reports upon.
Yeah. Would that be something you guys
would investigate? It would be something that I
would because it actually hits home.

(54:43):
I have another story that was actually even closer to Jeff's
when I was 8 months pregnant with my son.
This was about 12 1/2 years ago.I was I'd went to bed early at
my back to the door. I heard my husband come down the

(55:05):
hallway, walk into the bedroom, felt him get into the bed and
move right up behind me. Now, I ain't going to lie, I was
like, oh, I'm going to get some.And then all of a sudden I
couldn't move. Oh my God, I couldn't move.
I couldn't speak and I knew it wasn't him.

(55:27):
Paralysis. In my mind's I no, I don't claim
to be psychic or anything like that.
I'm not. But I had a picture of what this
was. And it was like the hat man, but
I could see him in colored form and he had a huge grin and like

(55:49):
I was in full panic. And then all of a sudden I could
speak. I couldn't move yet, but I could
speak. And I said, what do you want?
And it said your baby and poof, it was gone.
And I could move. I, you know, I screamed and
cried and my husband then ran into the room to see if I was

(56:10):
OK, you know, and I've never hadsleep paralysis before and I've
never had it since then. So there's a really, really
weird phenomenon that occurs, and for a while there it was
getting wrongfully mixed in withanother story, the story of

(56:35):
injured Cold, which is a completely different thing.
Injured Cold adopted was a givenand therefore adopted the the
nickname the Grinning Man, but it was wrongfully labeled on to
him. But the the the bulk of the the

(56:57):
grinning man stories just happened to come around roughly
the same time, a little bit after they injured Cold and
Woody Derrenberger stories. But the, the the typical
grinning man story is exactly what you're talking about,
Corey. Now, a lot of people, a lot of

(57:19):
people when they talk about the grinning man, they they, they
go, they they tend to they tend to just audible right into
injured cold. And I just I'm putting this more
out for the listeners. You know, we've we've talked

(57:40):
about injured cold amnesium on this podcast and we've already
kind of explained this before, but Andrew Cole is not the
graining man. Graining man is not Andrew Cold.
They are completely separate entities.
And I only say that because every time we talk about injured
cold or the graining man, somebody messages me and says,

(58:00):
hey, you forgot to mention this.No, I did not.
OK, knock it off. So I'm talking about the
graining man, not injured cold. Anybody that wants to message
me, you're wrong. But the graining man, the
phenomenon of the grinning man is exactly what you just
described. Now about the, the, the only

(58:22):
thing, the only thing new that Iheard from your story compared
to every other instance of the grinning man was the baby thing.
I never heard that. But the, the sleep paralysis,
waking up for your bed, grinningover over your body, verbal
communications, all of that very, very grinning man.

(58:42):
Very interesting stuff, Yeah. Where, where?
Where Were you in the country? Union Grove, WI which is just
West of Racine. The whole apartment.
OK there was this. I'm conflicted about if
cemeteries are haunted or not, but Union Grove cemetery during

(59:05):
the day is so benign, At night is crazy.
But my apartment, it was an apartment building and the
cemetery was butted up right to it.
I mean like 10 feet behind the back door there's a cemetery.
And yeah my I had this is my ex-husband that I was living

(59:30):
with at the time. He had an autistic son and he
was non verbal, but he would chatter and he would look at the
there's specific corner and he would just stare up at the
corner and just chatter like, you know, he'd, he would answer
and there was nobody there. He'd be like, yeah, yeah, you

(59:54):
know, and it's like, we're like,who are you talking to?
And then he would just kind of like refocus, you know, And it
was just. And I'd seen shadows run across,
you know, I, my husband used to think it was funny to scare me
as I was coming out of the bathroom because it was like
around a hallway. And so he would hide.
Outside, yeah. Great guy and and one day I was

(01:00:18):
like I like snuck out of the bathroom after shower.
I peeked around the corner and Isaw I thought it was him run
from the living room into the kitchen.
And so I'm like, oh, I got you. So I run into one of the side
bedrooms and I'm waiting there and waiting and waiting.
And he never comes down the hallway.

(01:00:39):
And finally I yelled to him, I'mlike, hey, what are you doing?
He's like watching TV. I'm like, oh, you know, so you
know, as I I swore I saw you, you know, run across, you know,
the living room. But no, and it was just like
that all the time there I've been, I've been wanting to go

(01:01:03):
back there's like and just see if anybody else has had
experiences while living there. But I don't want to think of.
Interesting. I mean, I've always kind of like
theorized that people with autism are just on any, any of
these spectrum. I don't even want to call them
disorders because I don't necessarily think they are

(01:01:23):
disorders. I think that they're more like
you're, you're tuning into different frequencies, right?
You might be, you know, it mighthave been more in tune with
whatever frequencies that are, you know, that thing's
broadcasting on, right, or whatever, wherever.
Like you said something earlier about maybe the energy was like
imprinted right in this loop, this time loop of some kind,
right? It's like, you know, and I talk
a lot about like holographic universe things and, and that

(01:01:46):
makes perfect sense there where like the energies of something
can imprint into the informationfield, right?
And then somebody that's on the spectrum might be able to tune
in to that information field in a different way that you are and
actually see or interact with these things better.
That's pretty. Interesting.
I mean paranormal. I mean, it's infinite, you know,

(01:02:07):
I mean, you just, it could, it could be anything, you know, I
mean, it's like what Jeremy was saying.
I mean just rabbit holes. Rabbit holes after rabbit holes.
Love it. Love it.
Arthur, let's bring you back in.Let's go.

(01:02:27):
Let's go back to Adam. Lorraine Warren So the I I need
the opinion piece because this is probably one of the most
hotly debated topics and I'm sure you've been asked this a
million times so I'm going to make it 1,000,001.

(01:02:48):
What are your thoughts on Ed andLorraine Warren?
Are they real or are they not? I need to preface that with
Lorraine has helped me a lot. She's mentored me.
So keeping that in mind, everything I've seen of Lorraine
talking to her and stuff like that, she's the real deal.

(01:03:13):
Yeah, I know she's got the skeptics out there.
I know there's, I haven't even watched it.
There's something new going around the Internet now where
somebody's trying to, you know, tear their legacy down now.
I think they've been doing that for years.
Yeah, it's it's it's really gotten ramped up to the point
where they actually somebody's trying to get legal action

(01:03:35):
against them to stop their museum from whatever.
Really. Yeah.
So I think they're the real deal.
I honestly only meant what Ed wants for a very short period,
so I don't know him that well. Lorraine, I've met twice, but
talked her on the phone many times.

(01:03:57):
Very sweet lady. I think she's very genuine for
the religious people out there, she she is very religious.
They both are. So I, I think she's the real
deal. But again, with the movies
coming out and you know, you're always going to get your
skeptics. That's their opinions.

(01:04:21):
I mean, again, I don't try to make people believe stuff
they're not going to believe, but as far as I'm concerned,
she's, she's the real deal. That's a that's a good point.
The movies I always I try to catch myself when I can on on
the show and, you know, try to keep the the audience up because

(01:04:43):
try to remember that not everybody listening to this is
going to know who and Lorraine Warden are and and please fill
in the gaps for me here. But my best recollection of who
Ed and Lorraine Warren are, theyare probably 1 of if not the

(01:05:05):
most famous paranormal investigators of modern times at
least. And there has been many high
budget Hollywood movies made after some of their famous
cases, including The Amityville Horror, Annabelle, The

(01:05:26):
Conjuring, the I've drawn a blank on a couple of others, but
I know that that I believe they even did investigations into the
Enfield horror over in England, right?
Yeah. There's there's a lot.
I mean, they how do you have anyidea how many movies are made

(01:05:49):
out of out of some out of their investigations?
It's got to be. Actually, I've lost track
because it's. Kind of double digits, right?
It is, but I think once you got past The Conjuring House movies,
I think the producers just saw dollar signs and just excuse My
friends would start making crap up.

(01:06:10):
Oh, no, absolutely. 100 percent,100%, yes.
Yeah, I, I, I think that that there's definitely a, a grain of
salt to take with the, the Hollywood movies.
And I, I think that's something that a lot of people take into
consideration when they're, I hate to say it, but when they're

(01:06:34):
judging, right. And Lorraine Warren?
Yeah, I don't and you're right. They they are the most famous.
I think the only reason why, well, I shouldn't say the only
reason because. But with the advent of, you
know, better telecommunications and everything, with the advent

(01:06:54):
of the Internet, because way before that, there was do you
know what Hans Holzer is? Nope.
He's like the original ghost hunter and he actually had AI
call it a spiritualist that he used to connect with the other
side and a lot of interesting stories.
I mean, any of your listeners want to pick his books up?

(01:07:16):
They're usually, you're only going to find them like in Half
Price Books. You use bookstores now because
they're so old. But he's got some interesting
stories. He's got some interesting cases
he did. Yeah, the Holder TV show the
Holder filed. Oh, that's right.
Who did that? I'm trying to think who did
that? What's the name out of it?

(01:07:38):
I've been reading Hans, I've been reading Hans Holzer's books
since I got into this. And it's not so much for the,
you know, they are entertaining,but when I first started this,
you got to remember they didn't have all this equipment.
We were using the big VHS cameras that you put on your
shoulder and, you know, dusting the floor with flour and mopping

(01:08:01):
it up the next day. You know, the big old cassette
recorders, you know, stuff like that.
So any any help we could get? I mean I read his books, just
trying to get some ideas on how to do things.
What's the best Hans Holzer? Book Oh, you're going to hate me
for this because there's no way most people can pick it up

(01:08:23):
because it's big. It's his coffee table book and I
can't think of the name of it, but The thing is huge.
Actually, hold on a second. I'll be right back.
I can actually show it to you. Sweet.
I still got it. I'm going to find it on eBay.
Yeah, Dave Schrader. He's Jeremy.
Can't do 1 episode without buying a book.

(01:08:45):
I can't I I think I I. Didn't Hans, didn't he start
like the white noise Run, do youremember?
Didn't he start like with the white noise?
Oh yeah, using that. The Movie, what was it called?

(01:09:09):
I know, but you know, we went home, right?
The the one where they start doing Evps man.
No, I mean actually using the white noise like from other
investigations like radio frequencies.
Yeah, yeah, could be. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(01:09:31):
Evps can be interesting too. There's some, I sent you one
from the house. Books.
Actually I. Don't know if you can read that
or not. Hold on.
Oh yeah, I've seen it. It's right here.
It's hard cover. Where is it?

(01:09:53):
It just seems it. It's called Ghost.
It says haunted places, Haunted houses, Haunted people.
By Hans Holzer. Only comes in hardcover, huh?
Well, that's the way mine is, but look how thick this thing
is. I want to ask a question that I
think Jake would ask if he wouldhear.

(01:10:14):
This is for you, Jake. Is it?
Is this the the? One OK, do it.
This is the famous question thatwe always bring up when we talk
about these types of things. And maybe maybe we just don't
know about them. But how come it doesn't seem
like there's any cases of like, the hipster who died because his
vape exploded or like the guy who was just like walking across
the street? Like, it seems like a lot of

(01:10:39):
these things happen either in like spooky places or spooky
situations. It's never just like Frank.
Frank just bit the dust, you know?
Believe it or not, they might still be around.
And here here's physics answer to that.

(01:11:00):
A lot of people, in fact, some physicist I know, says that's
what they think, but they won't say it in public.
They don't want to ruin their reputation.
Energy never goes away. It just transforms different
forms of energy. So when the body dies, that
energy goes somewhere. Yeah, You know, and if you
believe a lot of people, the very, very, very hardcore

(01:11:25):
Christians believe there's nobody in heaven right now,
Heaven will get filled up When the rapture happens, that's when
God will draw everybody to heaven.
So basically, if you think abouteveryone's just wandering
around, some people want to communicate, some people don't.
I wonder what you say about that.
Creepy areas or however you saidit, that goes a little deeper

(01:11:48):
into another rabbit hole. American Indians, we believe I'm
quarter American Indian and we believe the earth is energy and
it's been beat up and abused forso long.
There's, there's curses, Indian curses in the barrel mounts have
been disturbed, which can cause problems.

(01:12:09):
Even digging a basement is considered a wound to the earth.
So that's where you get some of your some of your spooky plays
from. Others are just natural magnets.
Do you know what Ley lines are? Oh yeah, I get into like Geo
geomancy and Ley lines and all that kind of stuff, Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. And Ley lines we'll draw is like

(01:12:32):
a paranormal Hwy. just like rivers are and stuff like that.
Right, for sure where it'll. Just take that.
And I'm not saying that they're going to bring Ghost about like
in Ghostbusters. I'm just saying that energy that
transformed from a human's body,that's easier ways for it to get
around, kind of like fiber optics for us communicating.

(01:12:53):
Sure. Yeah.
No, that makes sense. The tracks.
I'm with that explanation. Sorry.
Go ahead. What?
OK, All right. Didn't you say one time?
I think I wrote about two Like when somebody dies, I mean
they've they've weighed the bodies before they died and
after they died and it's like 10lbs lighter.

(01:13:16):
Or yeah, that was an old, that was an old experiment.
God, I can't remember who did that.
But it's true, I can't remember.It was true.
I mean, it was very minuscule, but yeah, it was true.
Yeah, but I've heard arguments about that, like when you when
your bodily function cease, you know, like the release of

(01:13:37):
methane and like, you know, you shit yourself.
You know, actually I don't thinkthat's true.
I was AI, was a EMT for 20 years, saw a lot of death.
I've never seen anyone defecate.Or fart.
If they've been dead a long time, possibly, but usually it's

(01:13:57):
exhaling gas out of their lungs.Sure.
I guess it all depends that'll. That'll freak you out when
you're moving a dead body, Nelson.
You're that'll make you crap your pants.
We we had just talked about this.

(01:14:18):
Was it the the last episode we did.
I think Jeff, were I had, because we were talking about,
we've been, we've been talking more about quantum mechanics
lately and how physics really breaks down at the quantum
levels and stuff. And, and I was breaking down
the, the energies and, and how you know, every, everything's

(01:14:43):
either an energy or a mass and how you can, you can change
forms. One's usually a lot quicker than
the other, right? Changing from a mass to an
energy is very fast, but changing from energy to a mass
is very slow. So when you when you burn a log,
right, you burn burn trees or orpiece of wood, the energy that's

(01:15:06):
created off of it the the log just doesn't disappear.
It gets created. It turns into soot, which is
also just a form of matter, but also gives off energy in the
form of heat and other things that we can't perceive.
That doesn't disappear. It exists.
It lives there, you know, it doesn't ever go away.

(01:15:28):
Matter cannot be created nor destroyed.
Neither can energy. Energy cannot be created nor
destroyed. But there is that second part of
those, those sayings that peopletend to always forget, cannot be
created nor destroyed, but can change form, right?
So we are physical beings, right?

(01:15:50):
We can, we can touch ourselves, right?
But can we touch our consciousness?
Can we touch our soul? You know, we've gone through
many hypothetical experiments onthe show where, you know, we
talk about the concept of, of exchanging consciousness between

(01:16:11):
two subjects. And we're not going to dive into
that right now. But just, you know, just know
that we have talked about that before.
And the CIA, by the way, you have the documents to show it.
That's true. What was that this the the
gateway process and others, Jeffand others.

(01:16:36):
But anyways, so I, I had broughtup the idea to, to the guys last
time we recorded, I said, what do you guys think about, you
know, when, when we die, what doyou guys think about, you know,
our, our consciousness just escapes us and it just goes, I

(01:17:01):
mean, because it's not a physical thing, you know, it's,
it's not like you can just hold it in your hand.
You can't hold it right? Because technically, I mean, if
you, if you grab a, a slice of brain matter and the, the meat
off of the, the palm of your hand, the DNA, the, the, the

(01:17:23):
building blocks or whatever the is, is technically the same.
Yes, brain meat is, is referred to as Gray matter and the, the
meat in your palm is referred asmuscle.
But when it comes down to biologics and the building

(01:17:45):
blocks and and the proteins used, they're very, very
similar, if not exactly the same.
So we know that we can't go to the grocery store and buy a
steak that's wrapped up in plastic and give it
consciousness. You can't do that, but your
brain can't. Your brain does do that.

(01:18:08):
So that lends to believe that there's something special about
the material that the brain is made out of.
It is less dense and it does have neural pathways, a neural
superhighway. And it, you know, we even got
into what is the most dense animal brains on the planet when

(01:18:31):
it comes to neurons per square inch or whatever, right?
We were talking about all that and stuff too.
What if the material, the actualmaterial of the brain itself is
created to be a form of box where a soul cannot escape and

(01:18:57):
the neurons, the electrical, theelectrical surges and, and
pathways that are constantly firing off in your brains is
used as a sort. I, I think Jake called it a
Faraday cage incorrectly, but I knew what he was talking about.

(01:19:18):
It's, it's kind of creating a like a, like a, like an electric
fence, if you will, for a soul. And then you get into the, you
get into the phenomenon of near death experiences, right?
People die for small periods of time and they report being able

(01:19:41):
to see the scene of their death.Being able to give descriptions
of minute details such as the color wristwatch of the guy who
was trying to give life saving CPR to them while they were
pulled out of their car after being T boned by a car that was

(01:20:03):
going 70 miles an hour. I mean, some of the the details
that people are able to give during their Ndes are
incredible, but we only have those when the when we have
what's called a clinical death, when the neurons fail and we no

(01:20:27):
longer are are sending electrical signals through our
brains. I don't know.
A clinical death is not when your heart stops, it's when your
brain stops, when your brain stops sending those signals.
So you know, people are reporting this, then your body

(01:20:49):
comes back online. The, the electricity, the
electricity in your brain somehow, I don't know if it's
somehow there's some sort of imprint in it where it
automatically recalls your soul back into it.
But you know, there, there's been tons of, I wouldn't

(01:21:11):
necessarily say historical evidence or records because
we're kind of getting into hypotheticals when it comes to
word of mouth stories and stuff.You're talking about back before
written records of people reanimating bodies, you know,

(01:21:32):
having the ability to that that have been dead for a few days,
nothing more than a few days, but coming back and having the
same consciousness as they did when they died.
And you're talking about a brainthat has been without oxygen for
multiple days. And that doesn't seem medically
possible from a modern standpoint.

(01:21:54):
But let's say it was able to happen and that person came back
and had the same consciousness and was able to give you a story
similar to those that that that talk about Ndes.
How strong of a case does that have?
I mean, it's some some actually very fascinating stuff.

(01:22:21):
I just, OK. And it's one of those things
that you can't, you know, you can't prove, you can't disprove.
You know, everyone's experience is their own, you know, And it's
like even with like our evidence, like our pictures and

(01:22:44):
stuff, you know, people post pictures of what they feel is
like ghosts or orbs and stuff like that.
And to everyone else, it's like,no, you know, that no, that's
fake. It's pareidolia, whatever.
And, you know, but to them it's very real.
So who's to say it's it's not, you know, we weren't there and

(01:23:07):
we have one little picture, we got 1 little story, you know,
whatever. I mean, it's real to them.
And that's really what matters, you know?
Yeah, no, it's, it's definitely interesting.
I've, I'm very curious as to seewhat people are seeing.
I mean, I've seen some pretty weird shit in my life, right?
It's the whole reason why I'm into all this stuff because,

(01:23:30):
yeah, I've been told throughout my young life that I didn't see
what I saw. And, you know, go go grab a
football kid, go do normal kid stuff.
And, you know, I, you know, I see all these people that, that
say that they've had these experiences and everything.
And I know my story is true. I know what I saw.
So there has to be some other truth out there.

(01:23:54):
I've never seen a spirit or a ghost, but enough people have
come forward saying that they have, that there's got to be
some sort of weird phenomena going on that that requires some
sort of looking into. I'm happy you guys are doing it,
so that's cool. Thank you.
You know, and also it's, it's fulfilling too.

(01:24:18):
When we go to a person's house, you know, and they're scared,
you know, I mean, they don't know what's going on.
And if we can go there and just listen to them, I mean, a lot of
times we can just debunk it, youknow, and it's like, no, you
know, you know, this is what's happening.
You know, we, we got raccoons inyour attic or something, you

(01:24:39):
know, I mean, it could be anything, you know, and to write
down, you know, all the way downto we've also have done
clearings and blessings to the homes too.
You know, it's like whatever it takes it, you know, to make them
feel better and hopefully, you know, gather evidence to if

(01:25:00):
there is something really going on.
I mean, a lot of people, you know, on TV, you know, it looks
like, you know, there's just non-stop evidence.
You know, there's, there's knock, there's yell, you know,
there's all this stuff going on.And unfortunately that's really
not the case. You know, a lot of time, you

(01:25:22):
know, we're sitting in A room talking to the thin air, you
know, and. Eating peanut butter cups.
Yeah, right. And drinking Mountain Dew and.
There's peanut butter cups. Always, always.
I like Kamahanchi guys for peanut butter cups.
Right. Some.

(01:25:44):
As. I mentioned this.
I actually think, I think who's the other guy's name?
Jake. That's not here.
Yeah. He might be upset that he
missed, but I'm sure he'll watchit.
Ron knows this story. They said sometimes they get
sent by the church, other groups, whatever.
And we got sent by the church tothis house.

(01:26:06):
It was in Milwaukee County. That's, I won't give names and
details, but this, this lady wasa nurse.
She had back surgery and she wasout of work, so her and her 21
year old son moved back in with her mom and she had called the
church because she thought her son got a possession.

(01:26:28):
So they sent us out. What we do is like what's wrong
with saying we be taught? We separate them and then we
talked and we have questions. We ask this the same questions
to everybody separated and then we mix the answers again and
somewhere in the middle find thefind the truth, you know, So we
interviewed both of them and theguy who's with me, he's doing

(01:26:49):
baselines on the House and he's just about finished.
And all of a sudden the mom comes home.
She wasn't home. Sweet little old lady.
She's about four foot eight. It's got powerful groceries.
So we, you know, we're nice. We'll, we can help you with the
groceries. She's thanking us and
everything. And I got the ideas and I go,
OK, can I ask you some questionssince here she was.

(01:27:10):
Oh, sure will. She's real nice.
She sits down across from me from her dining room table.
I go through all the questions with her.
She's answering them. Sounds like a sweet little old
lady. So I'm right now the last couple
notes and she goes, well, what happens now?
I'm like, well, we'll go throughthe answers and we'll determine
what we can do to to help out here.
I did not hear her move. I did not see her move.

(01:27:34):
I look up and she is nose to nose with me, hands and ease on
the table and a deep voice going.
What makes you think you can help?
What's going on here? You've never seen me move so
fast in my life. Jeez.
That's and, and unfortunately itwas, we believe it was a mom who

(01:27:57):
was possessed because I made a report.
They gave it to the church, didn't hear anything back.
So I called them and go hey whatever happened with so and
so's they can't get a hold of the daughter and the son.
They found out from someone else.
They did move out that same day.Within a week the house burnt
down with grandma in it. Wow.

(01:28:18):
Wow, she didn't crawl on the ceiling.
So what kind? Of Movie Legion, huh?
She didn't crawl on the ceiling like the movie Legion.
No, she didn't crawl. Like I said, it's I wasn't
prepared for it. I've never and honestly I did
not hear her get on the table ordidn't even hear her move.

(01:28:39):
And also, she's just noticed an old me.
She's kneeling on the table well.
I remember the time when I was discussing that case.
I remember we were discussing the case together as her first
time meeting you and we're goingover this case and you're at
work and your candy jar will goes flying, flying across the
room. That wasn't mine.

(01:29:00):
That was the guy I shared their office with.
He was a little mad. Yeah.
We're discussing A paranoia demonic case, and I share an
office with a guy. We worked in the warehouse
offices and he sat behind me. He wasn't there because I worked
the night shift. He works today.
Yeah, I'm talking to Ron. And also this candy jars just

(01:29:20):
flies past my hand smashes on the wall.
That's another good indication that it's something that might
be demonic. You know, on the flip side of
this device, on the flip side, it was that we, we, we helped,
we helped a lot of people reconnect with, with ones that
have passed on in positive ways.We actually received a donation

(01:29:43):
from a family and bought some gear with it.
Actually probably about eight years ago.
She wanted to connect with her father because she, she didn't
communicate with her father much.
So she wanted to reconnect with her father and we reminded them,
you know, it's, it's, we believeit works what we do, but we're

(01:30:03):
going to leave it up to you. I'll let you decide whether, if,
if the voices are coming throughour, our, you know, our spirit
box or whatnot, if it's really him, you know, and she said it
is. And, and the questions were
asked and that she, and he answered them and, and she was
very grateful. And we told her, I was like, you
don't want to owe us anything. We don't, we don't charge, you
know, that's, that's not her thing.

(01:30:23):
But she insisted And, and it was, you know, we just put it
right back into the group. So we've been at Numericate.
Numerous cases have happened. I mean, I've had relatives come
through before. You just never know what's going
to happen in some of these, you know?
Like, like Corey was saying to the nice, even if we just

(01:30:45):
debunked something, at least you're making them comfortable
in their house again. Yeah, yeah, simple.
I think Ron knows about this one.
I was actually in the city I grew up with.
This older couple called us. They just bought a house.
The house is completely remodeled by the former owners.
And the only thing they had is they swear they had a ghost
because they said it follows them down the hallway when they

(01:31:07):
go to bed. I'm like, OK, how do you why do
you think it follows you down the hallway?
They because right if you went down the hall, we can hear steps
coming down the hallway. All right, So we didn't even
have to do an investigation on that one.
We're we're doing our baselines me and I think it was Jared.
I know Ron Metz, Jared Metz, Jared before.

(01:31:27):
And we walked down the hallway and sure enough, it sounds like
footsteps coming on the hallway.So it was it with the lights
around, but I just took a flashlight and turned it on.
There's a hall closet with sliding doors.
And when they remodeled it, theynever put the guide back at the
bottom. So when you walk past it, the
inside door just bends, flexes alittle bit.
Yeah. And then they hit each other

(01:31:49):
sounding like steps. So, you know, we told her that
and she goes, Are you sure? And I'm like, I'll tell you
what. I go, do you know where that
slide is? She goes, well, I think you
know, she found it was in a drawer.
I actually put it in for her. Oh, give me a call in a week.
Let me know if you're still in. She called.
She she's a positive. So we feel so stupid.
I'm like, hey, are you more comfortable in your house now?

(01:32:09):
So again I go. Then we did our job.
That's what's important. You know.
Yeah, that was good stuff. Good.
I like that. That's a good story.
That's a really good one. I like that A.
Lot and there's a lot of them and I don't know if Corey
mentioned the raccoons because I'm I don't know if you knew my
story Corey, about the raccoons.I think Grande knows this.

(01:32:33):
There's a real rich neighborhoodin Waukesha County.
Family just built the house and they've only been in like 2
months and they cause because they hear scratching on their
bedroom wall. So we go there.
We interviewed the couple very, very expense rich couple.
So we're going to do bass lines and we're hearing the scratch.

(01:32:56):
I'm like, go to Louise. I'm like, hey, listen to this
and it does sound like scratching on the wall.
So we got in the hallway and we're looking around.
There's like this little half door and I asked the house back.
I go, what's the store for? He goes, well, I think it's just
storage behind the bedroom. Back then I was a lot quicker.
Thank God. I opened the door and there's a

(01:33:17):
family of raccoons in there thatjust came charging at me.
I slammed the door shut and I go, you got raccoons.
I go call on, call on animal expert.
They go, well, can't you take care of them?
I go, I'll take care of the dead.
I don't deal with animals. And within two months, then
moving in, a family of raccoons got up there and we're just
nesting away. That's awesome.

(01:33:40):
They're so mad at us because we wouldn't get rid of their rat
coolants and Nope. Sorry, not not much to do about
that. Like Nah exactly, not messing
with that. I'll throw some holy, I'll throw
some holy water on them, but I don't think that's going to
work. Probably drink it.
They're just going. To stop their hands.

(01:34:00):
Probably. All right, we're going to go
ahead and wrap her up. Jeff is falling asleep.
It is way past his bedtime. He is so tuckered out.
Look at him. So go ahead and we might have
to. I have a feeling Jake's going to

(01:34:23):
want to do Part 2. Go ahead and share all your
socials, your projects, everything and anything where we
can get one of them sweet T-shirts from.
Let us know at all, Arthur. I bought the book.
Awesome, awesome. You won't need to lift weights

(01:34:44):
anymore when you're reading thatthing.
It's a big. It's big.
I've I've I've got some over here that I'll give it a run for
its money. And do us a favor when you talk
to Jay, tell him, send him. Send our condolences to him.
Yeah, absolutely. Sorry.
Sorry. He's going through that right
now. Yeah, absolutely.
He'll, he'll listen, he'll hear it and then we'll I'll pass it

(01:35:08):
on to him as well. Thank you.
I appreciate that. For sure, go ahead and share
websites, share social media, share upcoming events, share
whatever you guys want to share right now individually as
together, anything. Go for it.
It is your mic for as long as you want it.

(01:35:29):
Go for it. All right, you can check us out
on Facebook. We're we're seeing paranormal
investigators. Feel free to search that.
Also, Wisconsin Paranormal Radio, we'll be back jumping on
there very soon. And then our website is
www.racineparanormalinvestigators.com.We don't have a merch store yet.
We're working on that, That's coming up.

(01:35:49):
And then in the fall, we'll be having Bell City Paracon once
again. We'll be working with a couple
of teams, US paranormal researchers and the Realm
paranormal team and podcasts. So we'll be working with them.
We like to network with other groups.
We have that going on the course, you know, we go live

(01:36:09):
time to time, so we always have something kind of going on.
But we also do a lot of investigations at Shaker's Cigar
Bar in Milwaukee and now it can be a whole another show that we
can talk about. That's a very, very interesting
place. Some Milwaukee off 2nd St. was

(01:36:30):
once a brothel house and also a hideout for paranormal for the
Al Capone family. They once owned it.
So we can talk about that anytime.
We're there all the time. We'll make announcements about,
you know, hosting something or or being there to investigate.
So but. We actually just had a guest on

(01:36:55):
about a month ago who interviewed the owner.
Oh, Bob Weiss. No, Yeah, she she interviewed
Bob. Excuse me?
She, she's the host of backwoodsturn normal.
Backwoods or dark woods turn normal.

(01:37:16):
Dark, dark woods turn normal. Raven Knight.
She she we were talking about and we, we saw pictures of her
doing her interview with him. That was pretty cool.
Yeah, it's. Absolutely.
We could have you back out for that.
Yeah. And if you can't, yeah, get Bob
on you sometime. Bob is amazing.

(01:37:38):
Yeah, or I could reach out to Bob for sure.
Yeah. Corey and Arthur, you guys got
anything? No.
I don't. Doesn't sound bad, I do have an
e-mail set up for someone who needs to get a hold of them out
me for the demonology stuff but I can't find it.
So the easiest way to do that isyou can go through Ron.

(01:38:01):
Ronald's all my contact info. So if you need just a
demonologist, give me a call. I live in the Sheboygan area, so
Sheboygan, Green Bay, Fond du Lac, Oshkosh area.
I mean, I'll go anywhere. I'll help out anywhere, but

(01:38:23):
that's typically where it's easyfor me to get to.
But yeah, you can get a hold of Ron and then he can get a hold
of me. If you need a whole team, you
got Ron. And Ron knows how to use me.
I know that sounds bad, but. They forget that you don't
remember the e-mail and don't say it on your.
If you do, you're going to get some weird messages from.

(01:38:46):
Oh, believe me, when when we first set it up, we got
unbelievable amounts of crazy emails.
I don't know. We just got to.
Start too wrong. You know.
Yep. All right, Corey, Are you sure
you get nothing? Nothing.
Contact Rod. Sounds good.

(01:39:10):
Smart. Yeah, Man, it's been a pleasure.
It's been a pleasure. This was this was a lot of fun.
Jeff, you got anything before wesign off?
But. Tomorrow night Shadow Band
podcast, 7:00 eastern on Twitch.Other than that, that's it.

(01:39:32):
I have one update to give, so I am no longer.
I changed the title and the artwork of the new show coming
out on July 1st. It is no longer decoding
reality. We are now officially tying it

(01:39:53):
in to infinite rabbit hole. It is now going to be.
Infinite Rabbit Hole Archives. It is a solo documentary show
this so solo documentaries are coming back, but it will be

(01:40:16):
under a new RSS feed under the infinite rabbit hole archives.
It will be a bi weekly show, so every two weeks on July 1st you
can expect to see the first 3 episodes dropped as well as the
first two Patreon episodes. That's right.

(01:40:39):
So get ready content is coming. More information will come fast
now. So be ready everybody.
I love the grand that is all Thank you.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
Yeah, it's, it's very reminiscent, isn't it?

(01:41:00):
Well, thanks for having us. Yeah, absolutely.
No. Thank you guys for taking time
and and coming on the show, Ron.I'm happy that we we got it
worked out, man. This is cool.
This is a lot of fun. Let's do it again.
All right, Wow. We're done.
Yeah, whenever. Just reach out to us and we're

(01:41:22):
more than happy to talk. Yeah, absolutely.
Just give us some time. We we have repeat list, repeat
guests come on all the time. We just usually, you know, give
it a few months and and we'll we'll have you back on.
But just do me a favor after thethe episode, hang tight for a
minute. I just gotta make sure that all
your audio downloads and then I'll send you loose.

(01:41:44):
All right. OK, sounds good sounds.
Good. All right, Well, that has been
another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.
Once again, I'm your host, Jeremy.
Thank you very much, travelers. But next week we'll see you
right here in the next fork and path of the infinite rabbit
hole. Bye everybody.
Adios. You guys got to say bye bye.

(01:42:07):
There it is. Hey everybody, thanks for
checking out the Infinite RabbitHole podcast.
If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to
infiniterabbithole.com where youcan find links to all the
podcast players that we are available on and even our video

(01:42:27):
platforms such as TikTok and YouTube.
While you're there, make sure tocheck out all the links for our
socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff
from our podcast comes out. And until next time, travelers,
we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the
Infinite Rabbit hole. Bye.

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