220. Star People & The Battle of Little Bighorn w/ Lance Dorrel Part 1

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:38):
Welcome back to the Impinged Rabbit Hole.
I'm your host Jeremy. Tonight we have a special guest.
Before we do that, we got to check in with our Co host Jeff.
Jeff, what's going on man? How you doing today?
I'm lazy bro. That a boy.
That's it, huh? Yeah, just lazy man.
Yesterday didn't do shit, it wasmy birthday, I just played video
games, all that. Literally woke up, played video

(00:58):
games, took a nap, woke up, played video games, went to bed.
It was nice. Today, pretty much the same
shit. Did you get the annual Happy
level up text day from from CJ? Yeah, everybody hit me up, man.
Appreciate all you guys for hitting me up.
If it wasn't for you guys, I wouldn't remember.
It's my birthday so. I had it.

(01:22):
Oh, oh, you just you just got slept on the couch tonight.
Yeah, I. See.
See. See how trained I am?
Yeah, yeah, I know. No, I'm boring, man.
I'm good. Everything's good.
Sweet. Yeah, I don't have much going on

(01:45):
my end. I'll give everybody updates on
the show at the end. I don't like to front fill this
stuff, so we'll we'll backfill it tonight.
So we'll jump right into the interview that we have lined up
because it's going to be a good one.
Everybody this is this is going to be good stuff.
This is right up Jeff's alley. I think this is one of the rare

(02:05):
occasions where we have a guest on where Jeff and my interests
kind of overlap. So this is this should be a
really good conversation. Without further ado.
I'm not going to not going to sit here and commit a whole
bunch of small talk. We're going to jump right into
it. We have an author in the house.

(02:27):
He is the author of the history they tell co-authored with
Donovan Taylor. We have Lance J Dorrell here
tonight to talk about star people and a whole bunch of
other stuff. He's really going to run the
gambit. He's going to be able to explain

(02:52):
a hell of a lot more than me. So let's go ahead and hand it
off to him. Lance, how are you today?
Hey, Jeremy and Jeff, I'm doing well and thanks for having me.
I appreciate you guys. Absolutely, man, absolutely.
Let's let's dive into the the meat of everything really quick.

(03:14):
Can we just get everybody a quick synopsis of the entire
spectrum of everything that we're going to talk about today?
What what does, what does your knowledge cover in general?
And then we'll come back and talk about the specifics.

(03:34):
But really quick, let's just, let's just give everybody an
idea of the entire range of everything we're going to talk
about today because it's it's a lot.
And you and I had a phone call the other night just to kind of
touch base on a little bit of it.
And we went down a ton of rabbitholes.

(03:55):
We kind of had to cut that shortbecause we were just going to
start recording an episode over the phone.
So I'm going to go ahead and hand it off to you, introduce
yourself, go through everything that you have to do at the end
of the episode. I'll give you all the time you
need to hand off all your, your socials, your book, everything

(04:17):
that you have going on right now.
Just let everybody know who you are and what you do.
Sure. Again, thanks guys.
So I'm, I'm Lance Dorrel and I'man ethnographer and historian
and a writer. My whole focus for majority of
my journey has been studying Native American and First

(04:39):
Nations people of the Western Hemisphere.
Turtle Island, of course, with that being said, I, I was very,
very fortunate to meet and stillmeet a lot of Native and First
Nations elders and people in Mesoamerica and South America as
well. And so we can talk tonight and

(04:59):
we can cover the gamut from all the way from one of history's
greatest mysteries, the Little Bighorn.
OK, everybody's kind of interested in what happened
there and I can share a little bit of what is long kept oral
history that our book focuses onthe history they tell.
Ending with that, while we were on this journey that took us up

(05:20):
to 8 years, myself and Donovan Taylor, a Northern Cheyenne man
and a dog soldier, warrior society member to this day, we
were very very fortunate to start catching glimpses of very,
very ancient history of this continent that had to do with

(05:41):
star people, an ancient civil war, the proverbial Greys, the
double face, the snakes, lizard people, the eagle in the Condor
and the Walla Molem and I can goon and on and those all go down
rabbit holes. But the bottom line is we are in

(06:01):
this journey. We had no idea that it was going
to lead us to this path. And we, we feel like we're the
two luckiest guys in the world. So if I can help anybody
understand a little bit of this from what's been shared to me
and throw it out there so other people can research and get on
this journey that that's the whole premises of this.
You know, this is I everybody has a chance at this just like

(06:23):
we did. And it can be done because this
information is starting to come out and Jeff's alluded to a
little bit before with modern disclosure, we can tie some of
this in that's sitting out therein plain sight.
So that's kind of an overview, Jeremy.
Very good. Jeff, you got anything that you
would like to start off with? Not really.

(06:47):
I mean, I don't even know where to start with all this stuff to
be honest with you. It's a lot.
It's a lot, man. I mean, I'll just, I'll just
kind of give my nutshell. Nutshell.
Like Nutshell. Yeah, Nutshell in a nutshell.
Just my thoughts on the whole thing.
I mean, I've said it 1000 times on the show, I'll say it 1001.

(07:08):
You know, I do believe that all of history essentially is a lie.
I think that at some point in the history books, they just
started making shit up, making people up, making events up.
And I think that that's that there's a lot of reasons for
that. We can get into it, I'm sure,
but I'll just say right off the bat that I will be biased and

(07:32):
I'm already a believer of such things.
So let's go. That that brings up something
that you and I should talk aboutone time, just to kind of take a
sidestep. We should talk about the Phantom
Time conspiracy. Phantom time conspiracy.
Write it down. I just did.

(07:52):
Good job. I'm going to forget what it's
about, but I will. But anyways, all right, let's
start from the very beginning, OK, where you started off in
your explanation there? Let's talk about Little Bighorn.
Something that I like to do for listeners is to, I don't like to
assume that anybody knows everything.

(08:16):
Let's start with the absolute basics.
What is the Battle of Little Bighorn and why is that
important to what we're going totalk about tonight?
OK, good start. So 1876, the United States Army
had had enough of the roving bands of native Plains people.

(08:39):
They wanted them subjugated and put on the reservations in South
Dakota for good. They were exterminating the
Buffalo herds. They needed the railroad across
that area to get to the gold fields.
We were in a severe economic depression and what you had was

(08:59):
a Civil War hero, George Armstrong Custer, and the elite
fighting unit, 7th Calvary of the Plains Army Division.
They had risen to fame in 1868 when they whacked a Cheyenne in
Arapahoe Village and down in modern day Oklahoma Indian
Country and they were given thatmoniker as the elite fighting

(09:23):
force, the vaunted 7th Calvary. Eventually the transfer to the
Northern Plains. And this comes to a culmination
where in May of 1876, they're put into the field coming from
Fort Lincoln, which is in Bismarck, South Dakota to head
east, excuse me, to head W wheretraditionally Plains people have

(09:45):
gathered in the Powder River country that would encompass
northern Wyoming and southeast modern day Montana.
There are two other armies in the field, 1 coming up from
southern Wyoming and one coming from the West over by Fort
Ellis, which would be Bozeman, Mt.
And they are to basically encircle these native people and

(10:11):
try to get them subjugated and to go into the resist.
And now remember, no stat phones, no satellites, no, no
telephone radio, I mean, I can go on and on.
So this is a daunting task in itself.
But they didn't worry about the fight.

(10:31):
Their whole their whole worry was to find these people.
OK. And you know, this battle has
been written about probably the most battle written, the most in
the history of the United States, one of the most in the
world. It's one of history's greatest
mysteries. It's Custer's last stand, right?
That's right. That's right.
And it still captures the imagination.

(10:55):
I I've encountered that doing talks and little libraries.
There's so many folks who are into this, but the whole thing
comes to a culmination eventually after the 7th's been
in the field for a month. And they catch these people in a
traditional area of what is southeast Montana in the Little
Big Horn Valley. Unbeknownst to them that the the
two other armies are not anywhere close to them.

(11:17):
One of them's been defeated 7 days before, and the other army
from the West is grossly outnumbered and dragging its
feet. So George Custer and his band of
12 companies that are in the field for the very first time
fighting together. Yeah, you heard that right the
first time. All 12 companies are in the
field are going to blindly try to take on this encampment that

(11:43):
they really have no idea how bigit is.
But his scouts have been tellinghim for a number of weeks that
the people coming to this encampment aren't leaving.
They're converging. OK, so the 7th Calvary roughly
had about 600 men. That's civilian Packers and four
Lakota scouts and maybe about 40a Riccura.

(12:05):
And eventually they will come a surprise.
Despite all of this and being inthe field for over a month, they
will catch the native peoples inencampment by surprise on the
banks of the little big Big HornRiver.
And George Custer will ride intoInfinity.
You know, to to infamy, so to speak, when he tries to what you

(12:29):
call hammer and anvil where he sends he he divides his forces
up into four groups. And again, I'm, I'm not this
isn't anything that it's not outthere written, OK, you just got
to read this stuff. But to to move this along, he
divides his forces and he sends one battalion, one of those four

(12:49):
groups across the river and he promises to support them.
And so this is with 125 men plusthe Ricora scouts.
And they go to hit this encampment that they have no
idea how big this place is, OK, Because they had not had any
time to properly reconnoiter this valley to see how big this
encampment really is and how many people this thing might

(13:12):
have that just wasn't on their radar.
They worried about the fight afterwards.
The whole thing is to get there,OK?
And Custer eventually does not cross the river behind his
subordinate, Major Marcus Reno. He decides to go to the Bluffs

(13:32):
above the Little Bighorn River, which are 300 feet above it, to
get a better bird's eye view of this encampment with hopes of
getting around this encampment to do what you call a pincher
and hammer an anvil. OK, I'm a tactic.
What he doesn't know is that theterrain that he's about to
encounter is treacherous and he doesn't know where he's going.

(13:59):
OK. And the native contingent while
while the village was surprised,the women and children, the
elderly, they they make a mass exodus to the north.
Marcus Reno is stopped in the valley.
He's not able to get this encampment so so to speak on the
run running into where George Custer can get around him.

(14:21):
OK. He he's stymied and where this
really starts to go into hidden history that was shared to us on
this journey is the first defenders of this encampment who
come out to face Reno in his 140some odd men are youngsters and
elders who are protecting the medicinal people who are healing

(14:45):
wounded warriors and horses fromthe battle of the Rosebud seven
days before. OK, that is just not talked
about by many, many authors, butit was constantly told to us by
these elders. Now, this oral history kept
alive. So while Marcus Reno is on
skirmish line, a skirmish line, he's being outflanked.

(15:08):
George Custer thinks he's got this village on the run.
He also thinks his next subordinate, Frederick Benteen,
is coming on with another 125 men, probably trying to bring up
the pack train. So George Custer continues to go
across the Bluffs of the Little Bighorn Valley trying to find a
suitable Ave. to cross down intothis village.

(15:30):
This encampment that could stretch for almost 2 miles could
contain anywhere from 7500 to 10,000 people.
Warrior size could, you know, throw out the numbers of maybe
1000 to 1500, depending on how, what the age group you want to

(15:50):
throw in there. But what they don't talk about
is that on this day, the native people, the the women and the
youngsters and the elders, we'renot going to be taken.
They had had enough. This was a culmination of years
of years of the army attacking villages in this encampment or
Lakota, Cheyenne, Arapaho. But what we found on our journey

(16:13):
was the hidden History talks about many, many more bands
being there from different tribes, such as the Dakota, who
are the parent tribe of the Siouan people of North America.
There were many, many more Arapaho people there.
There's a heavy influx of Algonquin people there that
aren't talked about. There's some Cree people there,

(16:35):
Grovant, Ojibwa, and those will be the same speaking people that
Arapaho and Cheyenne are. Those are Algonquin speaking
people. And so on this fateful
afternoon, why George Custer thinks this village is on the
run, They're really putting up atremendous amount of resistance.
They've driven Marcus Reno into the timber and and he's getting

(16:58):
put out of this fight, so to speak.
OK. And what that means is once they
run Reno from the timber, basically his he loses a third
of his command. This fighting force converges on
George Custer and his five companies of 210 men.
And he's in terrain he doesn't know.
He thinks his subordinates are coming on with the extra

(17:20):
ammunition, extra men. And it very quickly, he's going
to find himself surrounded by the hornet's nest, so to speak.
OK. And the culmination of all this
is, is if you go to the battlefield to this day, you're
going to go past the vaunted last stand heel where Custer and
his merry man, merry band of menare said to make a heroic stand,

(17:42):
right? You talked to enough historians,
you talked to enough native people, and they're going to
tell you that that's just not what happened that day.
What happened was that George Custer, despite all these odds,
he he almost pulled this off. He got dangerously close to the
noncombatants before Cheyenne. People stopped him, drove him

(18:06):
back up. And so he went around the vaunts
at last stand. He'll he now has to head back
that way. Some of his men have lost their
horses. And there goes your extra
ammunition. The warriors converge on him.
These are Cheyenne, these are Arapaho, Dakota, Lakota,
Grosvant warriors. These are seasoned fighters who

(18:31):
are guerrilla fighters who use the terrain to their advantage.
And the Calvary men are just at a complete disadvantage, running
low on ammunition. Chaos.
And, you know, George Custer andhis men did the best they could
under the circumstances, but they have to basically retake
the vaunted Last Stand hill. OK, That's not talked about.

(18:56):
Eventually, they cannot go any further because the back door
closes on him, so to speak. And you know, the the memorial
to the 7th Calvary, the famed Last Stand hill, that hill chose
Custer and his men. And if you the Native American
people, that is what they talk about, that hill chose them.

(19:17):
OK, so Donovan and I worked really hard to bring out this
oral history from the Arapaho Grosvant.
But what was neat about it was not only did their people have
this hidden history that's not talked about, the other tribes
talked about it as well and confirmed it.
OK, so we made it our mission toput this information out that's

(19:38):
not been talked about. I wanted it to be user friendly.
And so I went into the historical records.
I've been studying the Little Big Horns my whole life since
1976. I went through all the searches
and in the book I brought out this oral history and showed
that many of these stories had already been talked about.

(19:58):
So I did the hard part for the reader, OK.
And I it's got copious endnotes.It's got appendixes.
So I try to make it very easy, very easy to follow.
And eventually George Custer andhis band of five companies are
annihilated and we have history's greatest mystery.
So that should kind of bring youup to speed.
All right. So just want to make sure I'm

(20:21):
tracking here. So what you're saying is that
part of the hidden history, at least one aspect in this
particular battle is the fact that like, we're not taught
about the 10s of thousands, probably of natives that were
there. You know, they make it seem like
it was a much smaller grouping of, of them trying to fight off

(20:43):
the army. Is that right?
Is that what I'm getting here? Part of it, yeah.
So, So what you what you got, Jeff, is the standard story is
it's always Lakota and that maybe there's 200 Cheyennes and
five Arapaho. That's the standard story that
every historian regurgitates when they tell this.
Like what? I was trying to give you the
overview. And it's not, it's just simply

(21:04):
not true. And the the oral history is
alive and well and the reservations continuing to be
kept by elders. Talk to the youngsters.
But this stuff was already in the written historical record.
OK, it's not hard to find it. My question is when I hear stuff
like this, right? Because I, you know, when I hear

(21:24):
people like Graham Hancock, for instance, so they talk about
like these cities in the Amazon that just haven't really been
discovered, right? They're overgrown.
And there's estimates that some of these cities could have held
1,000,000 people. And then you talk to like
mainstream, you know, archaeologists or whatever, and
they're like, oh, it's impossible.
There wasn't that many people here then, right?
And it's like, OK, so something's not adding up.

(21:45):
So my question always is why? Why hide the number of how many
people were actually living here?
10,020 thousand however many thousands of years ago?
See, I was, I was jumping into that same exact idea too, but I
was coming from a different angle, right?
Because the, the weird thing, well, it's not really a weird
thing. It's kind of a known thing that

(22:08):
we tend to do here in America iswe tend to glorify our losses,
right? Colonel Custard was, was one of
those guys where, you know, I, Icould totally see how he could
have got his ass whipped right where he just made a really,
really stupid move and walked into a complete trap of just,

(22:37):
you know, thousands and thousands of of natives Where
he, you know, maybe conceived itor he had intelligence saying
that there was a couple 1000, but really it was 10s of
thousands of them. And it was just a, a, a, a, a
dumb move from him. And we instead we, we changed

(23:00):
the history to say, oh, you know, he he fought bravely
against an even battle. But really he walked into, you
know, something that, you know, this, this decorated military
man probably really shouldn't have.

(23:20):
Yeah, yeah. That that seems, that seems
more, that seems more along the line of, of how our history
works, right? That's how.
But I like Jeff, I, I understandwhat you're the, the, the route
you're going down. Jeff, Jeff likes to look at
things from the, the point of view of why are they always

(23:42):
trying to control our thoughts and our, our, our views on, on
the, the count on our population, right?
So right now they're, we're they're telling us that we have
what, 8 and 8.5 billion people on on the planet now or just
over 8 billion now. But really it doesn't seem like

(24:08):
there's that much. But but then when you go back in
time, they say that there was far less than there actually
was. Am I am?
I going down the right, I believe that it's an inversion.
I believe that back then, right?I don't know, 30,000 years ago
there was probably more people than there are now and they're
probably doing everything has been inverted.
That's what my belief is on that.
But still like I'm interested inlike what Lance's thoughts are

(24:32):
just on that part of it. Like why would they hide the
number of native tribes and people that were there?
Like what is the? What's the motivation there to
hide that? OK, so let's pick this up right
before and after. SO the in the 1850's, the army

(24:53):
started having conflict as people pushed W out across the
plains and this culminated at the little Bighorn.
OK, and you got to remember little Bighorn is the equivalent
of 911 to to us three here. OK, it it it shocked the world.
They found out about it in the 1876, our hundred year

(25:13):
anniversary, I believe in that was going on in Philadelphia.
It just reverberated. Custer and five elite companies
of U.S. Army destroyed by the natives.
OK, well, so let's back up. They never took the time to
understand really who the natives were and just what kind

(25:33):
of people they really were. Let's see, they could have
because they were getting Intel from captured natives or native
people who had married into traders, half breeds people they
had captured and they started picking up from what I am told,
they started the our, our intelligence services, which I
have been told were around at that time, as well as the

(25:55):
Canadians had been picking up pieces that native people had a
lot of abilities that are not discussed.
So, so let's go down. We can go down that rabbit hole
real quick. I think you'll you'll get where
I'm going. I think that's a good, good
rabbit hole to go down. OK, so let's see once you learn
this part of it that you're going to see, Jeff, why they

(26:15):
covered this up to start with the Native people.
And again, I'm not telling you anything that hasn't been
discussed by Native American historians and authors and a
collection of incredible books put out years and years ago that
nobody continuously looks at. OK, there was the Grapevine

(26:36):
Deloria, who wrote about this information, William K Powers,
You know, I'm looking at these books here.
Doctor James Walker, who spent time with Lakota people at the
turn of the century. I mean, I can go on and on on
these books. And the point being is the army
and the United States government, the Canadian

(26:57):
government had learned that the native people had some abilities
that would be called supernatural.
But now it's starting to come out that it's not.
We can, we talked about possiblytelepathic communication, OK.
We, we talked about remote viewing, OK.

(27:20):
We can also talk about how they felt that they could converse
with the plants, the trees, the animals, OK?
And there's a couple of really good stories about the little
bighorn about talking with the the birds and the animals that's
in the book. There was also a lot of talk and

(27:40):
a lot of people want to focus onit now and I steer away from it,
but I, I will bring you to speedon it.
They, they have been catching glimpses of stories about how
Native American people and FirstNations had an ability to take
another form, OK, to take a formof an animal.

(28:01):
If, if somebody wants to call that shape shifting, then they
can call it shape shifting. But so, so you see, the
government was very interested in these people.
OK, Now you say, well, why does that make them go after them in,
in Montana, there was enough of them around the forts, the
hangar honors and those things. Well, the group that's out in
Montana, it's always said that they only gathered like two or

(28:24):
three times. That's the biggest bunch of
crap. Jeff, this goes back to what
you're talking about. These people have been on the
plains for thousands of years before this.
The Algonkins, OK, Jeremy and I talked about this.
The Algonkin people came across from Siberia, Mongolia, Central
Asia islands north of Japan, andthey came across the Bering Land

(28:47):
Bridge, you know, Alaska, Yukon Territory, Canada, down into the
Pacific Northwest and across theplains all the way to the Great
Lakes. That's 13,000 years ago, right?
I'm sorry. That's the 13,000 year ago
lambridge you're talking about, right?
Yeah, yeah, exactly. OK.
This is well documented and it'sthe stuff is still alive with

(29:09):
Native American people here. So, you know, so, so these
people had had been in in Oregon, they're in Northern
California and they're all the way to the Great Lakes because
they had to keep moving because there's a series of volcano
volcanoes erupting behind them. OK.
These Algonkins were so numerous.

(29:31):
They broke off somewhere on the plains and another group came,
started coming SE and I think they came right across Missouri
where I'm at. And they smashed into these
other native people. Some of them have been here, we
don't know how long. And there was a massive civil
war that broke out here. OK, So these are the descendants

(29:55):
at the little bighorn of these people.
OK, It's not amateur hour. You follow me here.
These guys are seasoned warriors.
These people are tied into this planet and what's here on this
Earth. This phenomena, so to speak,
that's so well talked about finally to this day of possibly

(30:15):
a life force that's here, they were in tune with it.
OK. And again, I'm not sitting here
telling you to take my word at it.
Do your own research. It's written down by very, very
credible native people told to them by their own people.
OK, so these people at the Little Bighorn are being

(30:38):
persecuted because of these abilities.
And you say, well, how do you know it?
Because the stories are still alive.
After the battle, they scattered.
And guess what? They scattered with their
bundles. OK, and think of a bundle, very
simple. It's your protection, it's your

(30:59):
power. And it tied them to another
world, and that other world would be to the Star people.
OK, Now if this sounds like it'sgoing to the Woo woo, then I
guess it sounds like it's going to the woo woo.
But this is their own history, OK?
And these bundles were cherishedand sacred, and they were the

(31:24):
lifeline to these people. And the US government and
Canadian government went after these people after the Little
Bighorn and chased some of them all the way to Quebec.
OK, It it, it, it would take thethree of us quite a while to
drive from southeast Montana to Quebec, let alone on a horse
being chased. OK.

(31:45):
So, so, you know, put this in perspective.
You're going to chase people. I mean, you know, think about
it. It's it's crazy.
It must have been super fucking important to send yes manpower
and resources across. Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, and these people had the ability and they believed that

(32:07):
they come from the star people. OK.
And again, I'm not sitting here telling you that the listeners
or whoever this is some cockamamie bull, this this is
their history, fellas. But we as a society turn our
backs on it because it's supernatural.
It doesn't fit what we're taughtin school.
And the guys that are bringing this hidden history out now

(32:28):
continuously are not talking to Native people.
Sure, they're bringing up the history.
Jeremy and I talked about it. Sure, they're talking about all
of these great researches in thepast, Roswell, Leonard
Stringfield, all these incredible people, George Knapp,
Jeremy Korbel. But they are not talking about
the people who are Indigenous and who dealt with this
phenomena, let alone whose belief is they were put here

(32:52):
from people from another Galaxy.You know what I mean?
Yeah. And from your research is first
of all I just want to ask, did it, is there giants, are giants
mixed in there at all from your?Yeah.
Yeah, so when I was talking about these Algonkans coming
into North America, the group that split off and went to the

(33:16):
Southeast and run it runs into the civil war with these snake
people. Now the snake people don't think
of them as as a as a creature that's a that's a name given to
people that are already here or that are coming up from
Mesoamerica and South America. OK.

(33:39):
But before that, these Algonkanshave history about running into
a bigger race of people who may be the Mound Builders.
And there was a protracted war with these people.
And these Algonkins allied with the Iroquois allies, maybe to

(34:00):
the Cherokee as well. There's kind of loose
speculation on that, but you getthe picture.
OK, so they they battled these giants, but you got to remember
a giant might be somebody who's 6 foot 6 and above, OK.
But but they were a mound building culture.
This is before the Mississippianculture takes place.

(34:22):
And, you know, that stuff's justnot talked about.
But we also, I told Jeremy, we have to be careful here because
there's a series of cataclysmic events on this planet that they
don't nobody talks about. I mean, what made the Grand
Canyon, for God's sakes? You know, there's a series of
floods that are in Native American history that that need

(34:44):
to be always kept in the back ofyour mind.
OK, when these people get here, or maybe they happened before
them. We, we don't know.
It's been lost to general racialtrauma.
Native people are continuously doing a lot of research, a a lot
of meetings, trying to get this stuff out to their people and to

(35:05):
their youngsters. Because a lot of these
prophecies talk about the end times, Mother Earth being
mistreated. And if, if, if, if we have a
chance as a world to be saved, so to speak, we've got to follow
the red people. And there's got to be a
reunification of what they call the eagle in the Condor.

(35:30):
OK. And in very loose layman terms,
the eagle in the Condor is goingto talk about people from North
America, Native people, and we're talking about people then
from South Mesoamerica and SouthAmerica that later on had some
type of a civil war here. OK, I want to get into that real
quick. I just want to in the chat here

(35:52):
out of Africa is nonsense. People were here from the
beginning and the whole, I thinknatives have been here way more
than 13,000 years. Yeah, yeah, no, I don't think
either one of us are saying we, we built.
We both believe that I would say.
But also I believe that people came here the way that we're
told like 13,000 years ago across the the Lamb Bridge.

(36:12):
People did do that, but there were already people here before
that happened as well. Absolutely, absolutely.
And look, Native people, even even certain Algonquin people to
this day actually say their people came from Central Asia
across to Europe here. So again, I'm not telling any
folks what to believe. I'm just telling them that

(36:33):
there's a lot of different partsto this story, OK, How they all
intertwine. We may never get to the bottom
of that, you know, because it's so far gone.
But yeah, so anybody's got more research, throw it out there at
us, man, because I'm always willing to listen and learn
myself. Yeah, I like to just, I like

(36:53):
this just kind of dial everybodyin because I know there's people
who aren't quite up to speed, right.
The timeline thing is why I asked about the Giants and you
said it exactly what I was thinking.
I'm trying to keep my timeline. That's in my mind, right?
So there's already people here in the Americas, North and
South, right? Who knows how long?
Million years, I don't give a fuck.
Could be 10 million years. There's people here already in,

(37:15):
there was in somewhere in that timeline, Mound Builders, right,
The Giants. Then about 13,000 years ago,
people start coming across thesebridges, whether it's from
Europe or, or whatever. And that could have been from
the Younger Dryas and all the the cataclysms that were
happening 13,000 years ago. OK, when people, other people

(37:35):
start coming in. And then what you're also saying
is that there was other entitieshere as well, Star people,
right? The Ant people or the Greys and
so on and so forth. Yeah, OK.
So stay right where you're at there for some more
clarification. When when we're talking about

(37:56):
these, the first peoplings of ofNorth America, we don't have any
DNA or good archaeological evidence to prove where they
are. The second peopling we know came
from, excuse me, Mesoamerica, Central America in those for all

(38:18):
intents purposes, could be the Olmecs, the the predecessors to
the Mayans and native people to this day out on the plains talk
about the Olmecs as their grandfathers.
So, so let that sink in for a minute, OK, Then you've got
these Algonkins coming in, followed by people who are the

(38:39):
Dene Dene. So, so for clarification, the
Algonkins would be let's just start the the parent tribe was
thought to be the Lenape LANAPE and they went all the way to the
Atlantic Ocean by 1296. The the the big Algonkins groups

(39:03):
are the Cree and Ojibwa. OK, but you're talking about
hundreds of tribes that are wellknown.
The Kickapoo, the sock, the Fox,Miami, the there was a tribe
called the Algonkin Potawatomi, Ottawa.
OK, these are some heavy, heavy hitters here, OK, who are

(39:27):
steeped in tradition, the Shawnee, who are steeped in
giant history. This history that you're talking
about, Jeff, the Shawnees are all over it, are all involved in
it in the Ohio Valley, OK, The, the, the Algonkins of the Plains
would be the, the Plains Cree, the Ojibwa that stayed out there
from when they were going West to east, OK, the Cheyenne, the

(39:49):
Arapaho, the Blackfoot, the Grovant guys, there's 2
Algonquin speaking tribes in Northern California to this day.
OK, Nope, nobody talks about it,you know, So the the Danae
people, and I've been fortunate to visit with a lot of those
folks, the Danae would be the Navajo and the Apache.

(40:13):
Those people and these Algonkinswere in some type of an
alliance. So so you got that part of the
Jeff. But long before that they talk
about when the native people were put on earth.
OK. And I I think this is this is a
key point to bring up here. They talk about coming from the

(40:33):
star people, OK, And you know, this is I, I know you guys are
open minded to this and your listeners are so, so we need to
start working this stuff out there.
The native people want to to talk about this.
I can only go into so far of it,but they talk about coming from
the star people. But we got to be clear here.

(40:55):
There were already people here and there were already entities,
maybe we would call them here, such as the proverbial Gray that
is so prevalent in the abductioncases.
OK. So let that sink in for a
minute. You know, so, so there's a whole
gamut of of, of trails to followhere.
So, you know, that just kind of gives you a big overview.

(41:18):
And these people who are alreadyhere or these entities that are
already here, it's not real warmand fuzzy with them, OK.
And the native people have stories after story of battling
not only giants, but battling these like reptilian like
creatures. And don't confuse that with the
snake people out of South and Mesoamerica.

(41:38):
We're talking about some type of22 legged entity.
Is it kinfolk to dinosaurs? I don't know.
I don't know if we'll ever know now.
But they talked about driving them across the Missouri River,
back across the Mississippi and to the southeast.
OK. They talked about this

(41:58):
protracted battle with these Grays and they talk about a
protracted battle with a a double faced creature that
stretched all the way from Ontario down to the Black Hills
of South Dakota. So one.
Creature. A double faced creature.
One creature. I don't really know anymore how
to say it than that, but. 11. Good history and and pieces to

(42:26):
that that frankly makes Star Wars look pedestrian.
You're talking about like one creature or like a like a
civilization of. Civilization.
Thousands. OK, OK.
Thousands of them, not warm and fuzzy.
And, and where this even gets more fascinating to somebody
like me is, you know, look, on my journey, I was just trying to

(42:50):
understand what happened at the Little Bighorn, OK?
And Donovan and I were were blessed because we had so many
elders helping us. We never dreamed in our wildest
dreams that we could catch this oral history before it was gone,
right? And the elders kept talking
about when all were one on at one time on Mother Earth, Turtle

(43:11):
Island. And so it took a while for that
to register because I'm trying to catch what's going on at the
Little Bighorn. There's a very proper way to ask
for information from elders and protocols that you should, as a
researcher and a historian, follow out of common courtesy
for these people who deserve that respect.

(43:31):
OK. And it's it's it can.
It's a very simple process if you're taught it and you knew
that need to adhere to it. But once we started catching the
little bighorn, these people were talking about these
bundles, right? And they started telling me
about where they were taking these bundles after the battle.
And I'm like, boy, that sounds I've never heard this, you know,

(43:56):
and I'm kind of like, well, wow,why would they take a bundle
there that seems kind of out in the open?
And then they started sharing a lot of this history about
places. And I'm not going to go into
where these places are, but they're well known places.
And they started talking about what a bundle's really capable
of. And again, not going to discuss
that, but the aspect of it is that it communicates with the

(44:18):
with the their ancestors, where they came from, the star people.
OK. And they talk about the
ceremonies from the star people,the sweat lodge, right?
Go ahead. When you say bundles, my thought
is like a bundle of sticks and herbs that you would burn.
Is that what you're talking about?
Literally like a. Well, a bundle's going to be

(44:40):
made of a it could be an an animal skin.
It could be a Mountain Lion. It could be a a cougar.
It's it's it's going to be a rawhide par flesh.
It could be. But it's what I'm talking about.
It's essentially like a bundle that you're burning in ceremony,
right? That's that's.
And no, it's, it's going to carry your, it's going to carry
your medicine. It's going to carry something

(45:02):
that you've gotten from your spirit helper when you went out
and sought a vision. OK, It's.
Making sense. I got you.
I'm track. It's going to it's, it's going
to have your protection in it, but it's going to be your
lifeline to your ancestors to the start.
It's your bundle of DMT. Yeah.

(45:23):
I mean, there's, there's a lot of ways to say in a contemporary
term, yeah, you know, but these people were in tune with this
earth and this continent and there was a there's a life force
here and they knew how to tap into it.

(45:43):
They also need they knew how to visit with their ancestors.
OK. And again, I'm not saying any of
this. This is this isn't like I'm
making this stuff up. OK?
This, yeah, the elders shared. But when you take a deep dive,
you can find this on your own journey if you if you do it hard
enough. And these people understood

(46:05):
where they were from because there's a certain way that they
painted themselves. There's a certain color of paint
that they would find, OK. There's certain medicinal
properties that they were instructed from how to use to
heal themselves, to keep themselves healthy, to protect
their their their children and on and on and on, OK.

(46:26):
And the reason I'm bringing thisup is because they talk about
the star people and how they interceded here on this earth
and had really helped the red and brown race.
Well, Lance, who's the red and brown race that that's still a
big question and and that's morefor native people to, to visit

(46:50):
with you 2 later on and, and on this show.
And hopefully we can help you guys meet some of those people
and they, they'll come on here. But the the genesis of that is I
was told emphatically that the brown race was infused by the
Lemurians out of the Pacific whosmashed into the American

(47:13):
Southwest, California, the West Coast of Peru, western Mexico.
The Lemurians got into Peru and the red race was abused by the
Atlanteans. OK, all right.
In a lot of these, they say cameinto Guatemala where the the
Mayans were. Lance.

(47:35):
Yeah. Let's hold off there just just
for a second. No problem.
That one's going to give Jeff a nice little stiffy.
Let's let's let's wait there fora second.
Your crystal crystal laughing back there.
You could just you could you could you could see the the just
severe intenseness in his in hiseyes, staring into the camera

(48:00):
with the words Lamoria and Atlantis popping off and and his
nipples just getting so hard with excitement.
But I just want to take a step back.
OK, before we get too far, I've been, I've been waiting for like
a breath just so I can squeeze in and kind of help fill in some
of the. Sorry bro, we're excited to

(48:21):
appear. No, dude, I get it.
I'm excited too. I'm excited too.
I wanted to just let him go, butI want to be able to fill in
some of the listeners, OK, because I can guarantee you
there's going to be listeners tothis episode and there's going
to be some people that are just completely lost in the sauce and
they're just like, what? So I wanted to just take, take a

(48:42):
little bit of a step back and just kind of let's, let's,
let's, let's Barney style or elementary some of this, some of
the key terms here and go over some of the, the, the history
stuff for some, some key things.I've been taking some notes
here, OK. And I, I wrote down Lamoria and

(49:02):
Atlantis so we can come right back to this.
All right, all right, Jeff, I got you.
So First things first, let's go back and I apologize to anybody
that was really getting into that.
I just know that as soon as we start this Lamoria and Atlantis
talk, we are not coming back to any of this other stuff.

(49:24):
So all right, let's talk about you had made a comment about
this may be diverting into the woo woo and how this is this is
their history, right? And a lot of the listeners may
be saying, oh, well, this is getting too woo for me.

(49:48):
I want to make a comment on thatbecause there is there, there is
a lot of woo going on right now,but the veil between what people
were believing was flesh and blood, mechanical, and the world
of the woo is starting to becomedissolved.
That that veil there is startingto dissolve more and it's

(50:10):
starting to become more intermingled now.
I'd say quite a while ago a bookwas was published by I can't

(50:30):
remember the the names of the authors, but the the book was
called Hunt for the Skinwalker and it was it was a
groundbreaking book. In fact, I had it right here.
It's by Column Kelleher and George Knapp.

(50:50):
I should remember George Knapp at least, and they had recently,
up until a couple years ago, just released a second book
attached to it called Skinwalkers at the Pentagon.
They did just release a third book, which, you know, I'm going
to leave out information from that for now because I feel like

(51:12):
that part is going to extend past what our conversation is
about right now. But basically the gist of the
majority of the second book in this series is the talk about a
program called OSAP or the Advanced Aerospace Weapons
Systems Application program, which was a department of a top
secret Department of Defense proUFO basically study program.

(51:41):
It's basically the gist of it was to study the implications of
UFOs on national security by wayof how they impact flight of
both civilian and military aircraft from from the pilot's

(52:02):
point of view. Now the more public version of
this is a tip. Now anybody knows Lou Elizondo
and there's a ton of people thathave their own personal opinions
on him and, and his, you know, where he comes from and, and
what he means to do, whether it's good or bad.

(52:23):
AATIP is the non top secret version of OSAP and it's the
more diluted version of it. And basically, you know, I, I
spent eight years in, in Naval aviation and I was there when
the whole push came out to startreporting UFO sightings.

(52:46):
I remember when they, they started going through the
different forms that pilots wereto fill out, reporting UFOs.
That was the push by a tip. That was the push from, you
know, Louis Elizondo's book Imminent.
When that came out, he dove intothe whole background behind that

(53:07):
push, plus much, much more. But that was just a branch of
the parent program, OSSAP, whichwas top secret.
Now. This program had major
congressional funding. This program was based around
the idea that there was a paranormal aspect to the UFO

(53:30):
phenomenon. Not just the UFO phenomenon but
other unknown phenomenon. Mostly around the idea of
Skinwalker Ranch because the original book Hunt for the
Skinwalker which outlines the entire history well from the
Sherman's on basically of Skinwalker Ranch through the

(53:55):
Bigelow ages. It dives into the scientific
study of NIDS and then later on goes into the Bigelow Advanced
Aerospace Scientific Studies program.
At the Skinwalker Ranch. There was a ton of money being

(54:16):
funneled in from taxpayer funding to the study of
paranormal aspects of UFOs. If you take what Lance is
talking about here, about how there was a paranormal aspect to
the Native Americans and some ofthe some of their some of their

(54:49):
defenses and offenses, right, orjust abilities in general.
This all connects into one otherthing he was talking about that
he made a slight nod to. And I don't know if you meant to
just keep it a slight nod, but the ability to shape shift,
which is for us, you know, for the people who know this at the

(55:14):
surface level, there is the, thelegend of the, the Skinwalker or
the Yi. Now Lushi, which is a Navajo
legend. Now there are plenty of, of
legends throughout all of NativeAmerican lore that translate
very well into the, the, the, the Skinwalker.

(55:40):
And I'm sure you could get into that.
I'll, I'll let you get into thatif you want to or not.
That's completely up to you. But I would only assume that
that's more along the lines of what you were you were talking
about when you when you made that that comment, you're
talking along the lines of of a skinwalker kind of like theme.

(56:10):
When we were on the trail to theLittle Bighorn, there was a lot
of history shared with us that we could not put in the book.
But yet it was made explicitly clear to us that we could share
in a conversation like this in an effort to get the world to

(56:33):
know who the Native people were because of impending events that
a lot of native people in South Mesoamerica and North America
feel are already well on their way to happening.
OK, so I'll, I'll try to tie this together for you, so bear

(56:57):
with me. But the point being is to answer
your question directly about a, a somebody who can change their
form. We have been told that when the
7th Calvary was coming from FortLincoln to southeast Montana,
following these people, following the trails, you know,

(57:18):
they were in the field for over a month.
It's, it's you're crazy to thinkthat they weren't spotted even
though they snuck up on that encampment.
Well the reason they snuck up onthat encampment on the Little
Bighorn was the native people first of all had thought they
had driven the army out of the field 7 days before at the
Rosebud battle, which is just about an hour from the Little

(57:39):
Bighorn. OK, they didn't think the two
armies would be dumb enough to attack them.
Second of all, they Custer and his, his unit had been his, his
Army 600. And some men had been spotted,
according to Native American people told to me.

(58:01):
And one particular story that I'll never forget is about a
warrior who is in the historicalrecord.
But again, I can't drop the namebecause the family asked me not
to. But this warrior who fought
there was said to have those abilities to change form.
And he and his companions have been on scouting duty looking

(58:24):
for the Army if they were comingfrom that direction.
And this man, and I don't know about the rest of his
companions, I'm going to assume that they had the abilities to
do this as well. That they that he formed into a
four legged animal common to theplains and and and spotted the

(58:45):
7th Calvary. OK, yeah, that story is alive
and well by one of the one of the Native people on the the
plains of reservations. And those people were all at the
Little Bighorn. Also, real quick at the Little
Bighorn, when I was talking to you about when George Custer
split his forces and he goes to the Bluffs and he's moving

(59:09):
behind the Bluffs above the river.
And his his subordinate Marcus Reno's thundering down this
valley and he's got to drive this encampment into Custer not
knowing that there's 10,000 people and he's got 140 men.
I mean, you know, but the point being is Custer and his men had

(59:29):
not been spotted until we were told an oral history that's in
the book where the native peoplehad sent their winged creatures,
their brothers, the the winged Sentinels out on scouting duty.
And when they had driven Reno from the field, they talk about

(59:50):
seeing this giant demonstration of, you know, meadowlarks,
eagles, Hawks, woodpeckers, crow, that massive thousands of
birds making this demonstration high above the encampment on the
little bighorn. And they were letting this

(01:00:10):
encampment know that danger was coming.
And when George Custer was dividing his forces trying to
get around these people, the birds were breaking off and
swooping. So, so you know.
If if people don't want to believe it, that's fine.
I'm just telling you this the the history.
But they had the ability to communicate in a different

(01:00:32):
manner. Plain and simple.
OK. Plain and simple.
You had also man, that's that's wild.
Like, sorry, try try to move on.But were they, were they, were

(01:00:53):
they mirroring the movements? Yes, that's.
Crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
It, it's Jeremy. It's it, it's, it's so wild, but
it's so common to these people. You know, they they they walked
in a different world than we did, man, and they still do.

(01:01:14):
But they were in tune with the plants, the trees, the animals.
Those plant trees and animals are alive, if you're able to in
your consciousness, which most of us can't do to go there,
right? We are so conditioned and
watered down now in our state ofour form.
We can't do that. Well, as I was telling you, the

(01:01:37):
native people, many folks are very worried about future
events. And part of that history is if
we are be, if we are to survive what's coming and get back to
being medicinal people. That's their words, all of us
being medicinal people, that we all could have those abilities
to, to, to communicate with eachother telepathically, that we

(01:02:02):
could visit with the animal world, the birds.
Let that sink in, right? So.
Talked about in your book. I'm sorry, what?
Is this talked about in your book?
Yes, I, I, I, I, I, Yes, I go through it a little bit in the
book, yes. I will grab your book, Sir.
Well, well, thank you. Thank you for that shameless

(01:02:23):
plug. I appreciate it.
I will definitely grab. Your, I was just joking in the
chat, kind of making fun of myself.
You know, like I said at the beginning, I'm biased towards
this because this is stuff that I've gotten so deep into that,
you know, I, I truly believe this.
And I, and I'm also the guy who repeats that quote.
Belief is the enemy of knowing, right?

(01:02:43):
So I don't know how I reconcile that, But I, I do believe this,
that the, the, our ancestors, like you said, they were so in
tune with everything right now. I can break this down in the
simplest terms from my mind, right?
Like these people were, they knew what plants and animals or
whatever it was, what concoctions they could make to

(01:03:04):
access the spirit realm, right? Whether that's ayahuasca or
psilocybin or whatever, The thing is in the region that
these people could use to accessthese altered states of
consciousness, right? And in these altered states of
consciousness is where you, you get into getting information
from the Akashic records or whatever, right?
This is where creativity and innovation comes from, the flow

(01:03:27):
state, right? These altered states of
consciousness, so I, I always said that the, the people right,
I always say say jokingly right like the lizard people have
hidden this from us right. This was the whole point of all
of the hidden history was to hide the key to accessing
altered states of consciousness is why they make all of those

(01:03:47):
things illegal. This is why they've masked the
natural holistic world, the whatyou call it, we need to get back
to being medicinal people. Is that the term?
Right. So they they masked that
holistic world with this synthetic world that we're being
bombarded with frequencies and we're consuming all kinds of
shit that's making us unable to even get back to, you know, that

(01:04:12):
altered state of consciousness. Even I was just telling Crystal,
even if we stopped everything right now, went out to the
woods, we started just consumingpsilocybin on a daily basis.
We'd probably never get to the point as our ancestors because
they were doing that from birth.And like they were just in tune
on another level that you and I couldn't get to.
And that's the that's the big thing that they wiped out of

(01:04:34):
history was that knowledge. That's what I think.
You're on it, you're on it, Jeff.
I mean, both of you are, you're picking it up.
It's this is so interchangeable with what's coming out now.
I never thought that this would happen like this.
And I'm, I'm, I'm pleasantly surprised.
And again, I'm not here to tell anybody what to believe.

(01:04:58):
I'm just giving you the Cliff notes of what's been shared to
myself that I can share with folks.
And if I can learn it, then there's no reason that somebody
else can't. Who's the seeker and a searcher,
You know, and I mean, look, these people have been telling

(01:05:18):
this for a long time that we've been abusing this earth and
there's going to be a price to pay.
OK. And, and, and we haven't
listened and we can go on. But Jeff, go back to your snake
people story. If you if you dig into the some,
some incredible research, go back to that book by Bramley,
William Bramley, I think it was called the Gods of Eden.

(01:05:45):
Some of the the research that heturned up in the 80s talked
about the snake people were really the people trying to
promote what you just said, the positive abilities that we had.
But the powers to be certain church officials and we all know

(01:06:05):
who those certain church officials are.
They might reside in Italy. They might not squash that and
change that narrative that the snake people were crazier in
hell and evil. OK, the.
Eagle versus the Serpent. Right.
But, but let's go back, though. What does a doctor have on his

(01:06:26):
Crest? A snake, remember.
Yeah. Yeah.
OK, Now let's stay real quick inthe Southeast.
Now people want to talk about where did certain people come
from that are under some linguistics stocks.

(01:06:46):
We know that suing speaking people who are on the planes
came from Meso and South Americawhen the Bureau of Ethnography
was founded in the late 1800s. We have maps from them that show
Sioux and speaking people in Mississippi, the Biloxi, the

(01:07:07):
Tutulo, the Offalo. And we have Sioux and speaking
people in the Carolinas, The Catawba drawn a blank on one one
now. OK, so this has been around
guys. We we know that these suing
people, these people aren't static.

(01:07:29):
They had to move around and theywere constantly following these
Buffalo hides, our hides Buffaloherds.
But when they talk about all being one at one time, the cover
up Jeff and Jeremy it it's it's in the written record from
native people and and you guys, have you guys ever heard of

(01:07:49):
Black Elk, the Lakota holy man? No.
OK, as as a young boy, he's at the Little Bighorn.
As a 13 year old he participatedin the defeating the Reno
Battalion. He was in the ceremonies to heal
the wounded warriors and horses the the day before the battle
and he became kind of a well known historian.

(01:08:10):
John Neihart, who was tied into the University of Missouri in
Columbia, interviewed him in the30s and there's a famous book
called Black Elk Speaks. Neihart's daughter took copious
notes and this information set until the early 80s when it came
out in a book called The 6th Grandfather.

(01:08:31):
The grandfathers and the grandmothers are the ancient,
ancient star people, spirits that many, many native people
talk about. And we, we'll just leave it
there for now. But in this book, Blackout talks
specifically about when all wereone at one time on this
continent. OK, OK, big deal.

(01:08:54):
However, he goes on to talk about where they separated and
they separated again in the southeast of this continent or,
excuse me, of this country. And then he goes on to talk
about which way they go and in those directions.
Which tribes broke off from where?
I mean, what more do you need? He's telling you that just

(01:09:14):
because you're an Algonkin speaker at one time doesn't mean
you weren't running with suing people or deny people or I can
go on and on and on. OK, So there's a gamut of this
history. It's it's so there, it's
completely gossed over. And that's my one beef with
these guys nowadays that are bringing all this information

(01:09:35):
out. They continuously are not
engaging with the Native American people who are setting
ready to engage in a proper platform with them being at the
table and treated as equals about what went on here, about
what still goes on here and how they might be interact with it,

(01:09:56):
but they're completely pushed aside.
They'd rather be talking about, you know, Lou Elizondo and him
putting out a bad photograph. Well, the guy made a mistake,
maybe. OK, I mean, we can go.
We can go on and on about these guys.
We're going to focus on all thisother stuff when these people
are sitting here ready to get tothe table and visit.

(01:10:17):
But they will not, they won't engage with them.
But you got to remember, the Native American people have a
lot of reason to be concerned about engaging with this
wonderful country of ours, as well as the Canadian government
who haven't exactly treated themreal warm and fuzzy, right?
Yeah. Skeeter's asking in the chat

(01:10:37):
were the Zuni known as the Star People.
I've never I've never heard thatbut but to to Skeeter.
I haven't spent a great deal of time in the Southwest, but what
I can tell you unequivocally is there is history of these people
coming from Mesoamerica and South America.

(01:11:02):
Some of the Zunis possible kinsmen were told to me to
actually every year, every 50 years, they were coming to North
America. And then the North American
people would go down there in some shape or form.
And the Zuni people are their ancestors and they were their
descendants would go all the wayto even Wisconsin.

(01:11:27):
Let that sink in, OK, Now peoplewould say, well, what's the big
deal about them going to Wisconsin?
Well, the big deal was that's quite a journey without a
compass, without a stack phone, without a map.
OK, Second of all, when they're there, I'm told that they built

(01:11:51):
homes underground, like bunkers to stay warm.
I mean, are you kidding me? That to be that intelligent, to
be that, those abilities to do that.
I mean, look, if you go straighteast of Madison, WI, right, the

(01:12:13):
proverbial, they call it mad town, right?
The state capital, University ofWisconsin, there's a place
called Astalon AZTALAN. Well, there's an Astelon in
Mexico, remember? Now, what's the chances of that
being just a mere coincidence? And you know what they did in

(01:12:34):
Astelon in Wisconsin, they had meetings to talk about what you
guys and I are talking about to how to preserve their oral
history and where it came from. That's what I was specifically
have been told that centuries ago they were when they were

(01:12:54):
meeting at Ashtalon in Wisconsin, how they were going
to save their oral history because there was a group of
people coming from the east, thewhite man that was going to come
and disrupt their world. So, I mean, you know, there's
too many damn coincidences. So the star people thing is

(01:13:16):
super interesting, but you also said something earlier, the
Grays, and if I'm not mistaken, I think you mentioned that they
were, they were already here. So that's what.
I'm told yes, explicitly they were indigenous.
They were indigenous to either this planet or they or

(01:13:38):
indigenous to, excuse me, North America, or they possibly could
have been brought here by star people.
But at least older than older than all the known or you know
what's accepted as known tribes.Yes, we're talking going.
OK, OK. Absolutely, partner.
So question for you before I, before I wrap up the, the other

(01:14:01):
stuff I wanted to get to so we can get back to other things.
Do you is there from the the thepoint of view of the natives and
what they've told you, if you can touch on it, is there any
tie between the Grays and what, what we would consider UFOs?

(01:14:28):
To me would be simply that theseGrays were here.
They were no good. They were having constant
conflict with them. But something happened where
these Grays were infused by a race of star people.
Now, does that mean that those star people put them here?
I don't know. But they were infused by this
race of star people that were constantly meddling with Earth.

(01:14:53):
Lots of different star people, I'm told, were meddling with
Earth, manipulating the native people, doing bad things, taking
them. They talk about that, but for
whatever reason they took these Grays and made them their
minions, so to speak, OK to do their dirty work and they
infused them with some type of powers or or better abilities.

(01:15:17):
So yes, to answer your question,yes they do.
They talk. About that, that the
cohesiveness with that and like the lore behind the Grays that
that's, you know, kind of Canon right now is is very
interesting. So just to kind of fill in some
others, you know, that that justmay not be aware, the Gray

(01:15:40):
aliens are the, are the aliens that you hear about like this is
your Hollywood alien. But they, they, they got their,
their start really with the Barney and Betty Hill.
Well, at least with modern times, right?
With modern times, they got the,their start with the, the Barney
and Betty Hill abduction case ofNew Hampshire.

(01:16:01):
This would be the kick off to that.
Then shortly after you had the Whitley Strieber communion event
and then after that you really had a whole plethora of
different things. You had fire in the sky came out
just everything, anything signs.There's a ton of movies, but

(01:16:27):
basically they they, we have been led to believe, especially
through the Betty and Barney Hill story, that these things
are from the star system, Zeta Reticuli.
So they have been termed or called the Zeta Reticulans to
give the the idea that they are from outer space.

(01:16:50):
They are extraterrestrials and there are, there's plenty of
evidence to to show that they'renot, they're actually from
somewhere here on this Earth. Lance and I were talking the
other night and if anybody is familiar, there's a, there's a,

(01:17:11):
there's a legend in West Virginia or anywhere really
along the Appalachians of the Moon eye people.
And if you're familiar with the moon eyed people, then then you
would know that they resemble what a, a standard Gray would
look like very closely. Then you have things such as the

(01:17:31):
melon heads and the, the one offexample of the Dover demon,
which is a very other close example of what a Gray would
look like. There's plenty of examples
around the world, especially here in North America of Gray
looking like legends or cryptozoological, mythological

(01:17:56):
creatures in our minds, right? Doesn't mean that they don't
exist. We just don't have proof that
they do. But there's plenty of stories
about them. They're here.
We just don't have proof that they exist.
Now to tie in my question about the UFOs, and I wanted to take a
step back a little bit to your remote viewer topic.

(01:18:20):
Because when you were talking about how this conversation was
kind of going a little bit into woo, you had made a comment
about how one of their paranormal aspects were or
abilities was the power to remote view.
Now I had given the example of ASAP as a as a modern example of

(01:18:41):
how the US government was dumping money into paranormal
abilities or paranormal studies.Now, way back prior to the most
famous example of the US government dumping money into a
paranormal study, which was Project Stargate in the 70s and

(01:19:03):
80s, right? Which went, I believe, all the
way up until 1992, which was literally the the DIACIA and the
US Army using people with parapsychological abilities to
remote view and spy on our adversaries in in a multitude of

(01:19:29):
ways. Before that there was a program
that was conducted called Project Aquarius, which was
outlined in Howard Bloom's book Out There in the 80s.
Now he had somehow gained, he had gained a source, two sources

(01:19:57):
inside of what was being called the UFO Working Group.
It was a group of of people within the Department of Defense
and CIA combined effort that. Came together and we're we're

(01:20:22):
studying UFOs now the reason whywas because of this project
Aquarius which was the preamble to project stargate.
The reason why Project Stargate even got the go go ahead the
green light to go was because during the Project Aquarius
trial runs, when they were searching for Soviet Subs during

(01:20:48):
the trial runs, there were multiple times where when they
were trying to find these Subs, they found flying flying saucers
or UFOs, unidentified objects inthe sky over the waters where
the Subs were located. And every single time that they

(01:21:08):
had found them, they were over nuclear powered submarines.
So that, that's, that's why, youknow, I, I wanted to bring that
up because it all connects, because you're talking about
the, the star people, the, the Grays, the, I wanted the, to tie

(01:21:28):
in the UFOs. I wanted to tie in the
paranormal, the, the remote viewership, the all of that.
And I wanted to also prove that,hey, for those of you that that
suck on to the history books and, and, and read all the
disinformation that they, they literally force feed you from
grades K through 12. You know, you need to understand
that we have spent plenty of money on studying this exact

(01:21:52):
kind of stuff. You know, you have to understand
that there has been a an active effort to look into this like we
have done this. What's interesting too is if you
just look at the timeline, I mean, like the Battle of Bighorn
was at 1876, right? And then you have, they were,
they were putting these projectstogether, these remote viewing

(01:22:14):
and these, all these types of projects together in like the
40s, bro. So it was only, you know, 60
years removed from when I would argue.
And I'm sure that the, the US Army was probably collecting
this information. Like you said, the Intel
agencies were around then, so they were collecting this
information all the way up to Bighorn, right?

(01:22:37):
They were figuring out like, hey, like you said, these these
native peoples, like they have abilities, right?
And they were figuring out like how they were in tune and all
the things I was saying before. And 76 was probably like just
kind of like the the moment in history, right?
And his story that they were kind of pinning it as like, hey,
like this is a moment where the shift starts to happen into this

(01:22:59):
new, this new world where all the holistic shit's going to go
away and we're going to be in this like synthetic world.
You know, I, I asked chat or notchat, JPT grok about the Battle
of Bighorn, right? And it gave me a little summary
and I was like, is there any numerology connections, right?
Because I'm spooky like that. And I want to know if there's
any numerology connections. So just to give you an idea

(01:23:21):
here, the Battle of Bighorn, June 25th through the 26th 1876,
the date reduces to the #8 powerand conflict.
That's interesting, right? Custer's birthday yields 11,
which is conflict, right? And Sitting Bull, sitting Bulls
rate reduces down to 4, which isstability, right?

(01:23:44):
And then 263 soldiers killed reduces to 11 conflict.
So to me, the people who wrote the history chose these, these
dates and these numbers to signify like this was the
conflict, the conflict between the Old world and the New World,
right? Yeah, I mean, look, look, let me

(01:24:07):
let me give you 2 quick examples.
So anytime that a tribe of people, native people moved out
on the plains or anywhere on this continent and you got to
remember the the whole tribes not together.
They're in smaller units, Vans and Tiosha pays seven families

(01:24:29):
or something like that. They had their warrior societies
who guarded the the movements. They had their medicinal people.
It's a blanket statements, a medicine man or a medicine woman
or a holy person, but no war party ever went out and no group

(01:24:50):
moved without your holy person going into the ceremony.
And then at the lead of this caravan of people because they
have those abilities to remote view and to see where these
people were going or to see whattheir enemies were doing.
That's written about so many times from these warriors and

(01:25:15):
their people, it's comical. OK, number one, Jeremy, you were
talking about the Grays and Reticuli and all those things.
You know, it could be they couldbe from there and they could
also have been here, brought there by those people.
It could be one in the same, right?
But remember that little incident in 1947 in southeast

(01:25:37):
New Mexico called Roswell, right?
OK, now if a person's new to this, you can dig into Roswell
and there's a plethora of literature to read, you can go
down the proverbial rabbit hole.You guys know this, OK?
Don Schmidt, Stanton Friedman, Don Carey and Kevin Randall have

(01:26:00):
done a tremendous job of tying this together for us.
OK, just get that last book. Hold on for a second.
Let me show you. Jeremy's got a list of authors

(01:26:21):
written down. I watched him do it.
Witness to witness to Roswell. Oh, Jeremy's got the same book.
Here we go, Helen. Terry Von Schmidt, 222 guys who
spent their life and Kevin Randall spent their life doing
this guys. They, they found so many people

(01:26:44):
who were there that had taken the oath to this country, plus
their hearts, and they took thisstuff to the grave or they told
family members. But Don Schmidt and Don and Tom
Carey caught these people beforethey made their journeys.
And if you don't think somethingwent down out there and these
guys who are the MPs or the pilots who flew these bodies

(01:27:08):
back East, then you're just not.We're living in a in, in, in the
real world, I guess, very simple.
And not to attack anybody here, OK.
But they've interviewed over 100people who were there.
OK? They went on the record and
talked about what they knew. Now, why is that significant?

(01:27:32):
It's significant because the people who were there, the five
O ninth, were the people who dropped the atomic bomb on
Hiroshima and Nagasaki. OK, Yeah.
They. Were.
Number two, number two, there was no there was no damn air
balloon, weather balloon. You don't think the intelligence

(01:27:53):
officer of the five O 9th who was a decorated pilot himself
knows the difference between a damn mogul weather balloon and
something from maybe from another world?
I mean, you know. Project Mogul is bullshit
anyways, yeah. Exactly.
But people aren't. People don't want to deal in the
reality of the situation that we're talking.

(01:28:14):
And that's fine. Yeah, OK.
But but the bottom line is this stuff did happen.
The native people are tied into it every time you turn around
and when you talk about who's here and who's not here, we'll
probably never get to the bottomand all it because of
generational memory, generational trauma.

(01:28:36):
A lot of this information went underground and I'm not telling
you guys I I'm anything special.I'm not telling you anything.
I'm sure in the hell not attacking any ethnographers way
back in the day, but we know that some of the stuff that was
told to them now was not true. You know, I mean, the, the stuff
was taken to the the ground and gone underground, but there's a

(01:28:59):
plethora of evidence out there guys still to be uncovered.
And it just takes time and getting out there pretty simple.
But again, you have to have an open mind to it and you have to
do some homework that these people know their history.
But again, they're not talk to. Yeah, I, I have.

(01:29:24):
I also have Witness to Roswell, which is a great book, which I
agree is by far the the better of the three books that I have.
But I also have The Day after Roswell by Colonel Philip J
Corso and the Roswell Legacy by none other than Jesse Marcel,
which is which is, you know, this is it's got a forward by

(01:29:48):
Stanton Friedman. Marcel is the, the guy, I mean,
he's, he's one of the, the, the big players in, in, in the whole
story. And I'm not going to get too far
into it because we're going to eventually talk about that more

(01:30:09):
in length. But I just want to, I want to
point out something very interesting about the whole
Roswell thing that goes beyond I, I, I don't think there's any
question about it. There, there, there was a
massive cover up to, to, to Roswell.
And it happened instantly. I mean, the their very first

(01:30:32):
press conference where they had announced that it, that a flying
saucer had fallen was quickly covered up that same evening.
And then the very next morning there was a follow up press
conference where they said, oh, no, it was just a weather
balloon. But they they literally pushed
out paperwork and official announcements replacing the term

(01:30:59):
flying saucer with high altitudeweather balloon and project.
You know it just bullshit, absolute bullshit.
They they flew what's his face up from from North Texas to come
and direct the entire thing. Not going to get into all that,
but one thing that was very, very interesting that I thought
was a very interesting take on it.

(01:31:20):
And the more I look into it, themore I found evidence that it
very well could have been true that we were doing atomic bomb
testing in the in the general area where it looked like we may
have had some, some UF OS that may have been a little too
interested in what we were doingand may have been caught up in

(01:31:44):
an EMP. And that's how how we had gotten
crashed. It may not have been something
that was mechanical or like a, amechanical failure on their part
and may have been something where they got a little too
curious and they couldn't have helped it.
But yeah, it it absolutely, absolutely incredible story.

(01:32:10):
Even when you don't look at justjust the just the cover up side
of things. Don't don't even look at it as
if there was a cover up because I don't think there's any
question whatsoever. Absolutely.
It was a cover. Up.
Yeah, we can speculate all day of what exactly they were
covering. Up like Lance is saying, I'll
never. We'll never really know, right?
I I don't even think you need to.

(01:32:31):
I don't even think there there were non human biological bodies
taken away and and they were split up into two different
places, right? One was Wright Patterson Air
Force Base in Ohio. And then there was 1 taken out
West somewhere. Don't know, still don't know
where exactly out West they weretaken.

(01:32:52):
We know one went to Wright Patterson.
We know that area 51 was the cover place, right where they
were supposed to have taken them.
But it was just, you know, it, it was a spooky place that
everyone nose is just spooky andweird.
But really it's just a test flight facility and it's just
you know it. It's cute that it has all the

(01:33:12):
little green men painted around it, but it it really means
nothing. What I, I, you know, I think, I
mean, I think all of this is super interesting, obviously.
But to me, when I think about like these different, I'm going
to call them factions, right? These different factions, star
people, right? The greys that were here
already, right? The native people, our

(01:33:34):
ancestors, right? Like all these different people,
you know, I almost find it more interesting to think about.
Like what was there a layer of deception in there as well,
right? Are the star people actually
people from the stars or is thata deception that was put on, you
know, the, the ancient people that were here already too,

(01:33:56):
right? Because, you know, I've, I don't
know if this is 100% accurate, but from my understanding, like
I think the Hopi tribe talk about emerging from the ground,
right, with the help of the amp people after the cataclysms,
right? And like that's their origin
story. Or maybe maybe it's not the
Hopi. I might be mixing up tribes here
or whatever, but the idea basically that after the

(01:34:18):
cataclysms, the beings that werealready here that live under us,
you know, birthed humans from the ground.
And that's kind of the thing. So I always wonder, like, you
know, when I hear these star people stories, like, is that a
deception, right? Was, was there some foul play
happening back then, even to make our ancestors believe that
there were entities coming from the sky, these godly creatures,

(01:34:40):
but they were actually just, youknow, same shit that's happening
now, I guess, if that makes sense.
Lance and I were talking about this on on the phone call we
were talking about down in Mesoamerica, you know, and and
in the ancient times drawn a blank.
Now, I I had it that night. But Jeff, you know, I'm talking

(01:35:05):
about the the the leader who wassupposedly have come from the
sky. And then there was the.
Quasi Quoto. Quasi quoto, yeah.
Thank you. You know, thanks man.
Tomorrow, tomorrow. But and then at the same time,
there was also that race of being that that was coming up

(01:35:27):
from the ground too, You know, Imean, we were there's there's
plenty of history that says there that there was all kinds
of of things going on from from above and below.
And then you'd look at the same architecture in, in Mesoamerica,
you know, the far, far eastern China or in, in Asia.

(01:35:51):
And then you have Egyptian pyramids and, and other remote
locations around the world wherethey, they share these
architectures that are so similar, but distant, like very,
very vastly distant. And the only way that they can
ever be connected is whether is if they had technology similar

(01:36:14):
to what we have or better back then or, or if there was just
simply a civilization underground that had ways to
surface and simply just built using their architecture where
they had these openings to surface.
Right. If the inner Earth people, I

(01:36:35):
just call it that. If the inner Earth people or the
ancient ones, right? Like if they have the ability to
fly around, if they've got UA PSor UFOs or whatever the hell you
want to call them, they've got this, this technology.
I mean, like, it's not hard for them to to trick the surface
people, right? The native cultures that are
here on the earth, on the surface of the Earth into

(01:36:55):
thinking that they're coming from space, right?
That's kind of where I where I get stuck.
You know, I'm the space's fake guy.
Lance, I don't know if Jeremy warned you on this.
I don't necessarily believe in space.
So that's kind of where my hold up is.
I'm like, OK, well, these beingsprobably all originate from
here. Just.

(01:37:16):
I don't, I don't know, I think this, this gets really
interesting man, because then you even have like the the
Admiral Byrd story where he, he,he goes down The Sims hole in
South America. You know, he flies in there and
he and he comes across flying saucers and these, this, this,
this strange race of being down there with vastly superior

(01:37:41):
technologies that speak something close to German.
They have, they have flying saucer craft that they call,
what do they call them? They call them.
I can't think of what they call them.
I'll, I'll look it up here in a second, but not, not to hold us

(01:38:04):
up, but I mean a lot there. There's a lot of concepts that
we've covered in the past, Jeff,that and, and, and Lance that
seems to be connecting because of some of the stuff that you're
you're putting out there right now.
It's it's very interesting. Well, I mean, look, you guys
are, are, it's refreshing to visit with you because we're

(01:38:25):
just three guys talking. And if we all could have these
conversations like that and bring something to the table
with our all different researchers, we could get
someplace OK and, and, and treateach other like human beings and
try to take from it. And, and, you know, if I get
something wrong, some bring it to my attention.
If you find something that contradicts it, you know, But

(01:38:49):
let me bring three things to your attention real quick here.
We know with, I believe, a degree of certainty.
There's been many, many more. We'll just call them UFO crashes
in the Western Hemisphere. Yeah, we'll just stay in the

(01:39:10):
United States, for instance, then.
Anybody has any idea? OK.
And there's a well known former military man who's been talking
about this for a number of years.
And people can believe him or they can't, I don't know.

(01:39:31):
It doesn't matter. But I followed his trail and I
followed it through Native American people.
And I'm telling you guys, and I'm not going to drop his name
here, but I, I'll see if he can maybe come on your show.
He's pretty open to these things.
I've, I've followed his trail ona lot of times about where he

(01:39:52):
said something went down on different platforms.
It's never failed that Native American people have history to
these areas and they talk about the same things.
And I've shared that with him because he's been nice enough to
share stuff with me quietly. I don't go around dropping his
name. He doesn't drop my name, and
he's just a good human being. Despite what a lot of people

(01:40:13):
say, I don't care. So, so #1 so keep that in
perspective. Yep.
Let's go back to real quick to star people and, and some of the
Jeff stuff about underground. Look, many of these Native
American people talk about goingunderground to survive these
cataclysmic events. The Hopi are #1 the Lakota

(01:40:36):
people talk about coming up fromthe ground around the Black
Hills again. Is that to survive a cataclysmic
event? Yeah, they say it is.
OK. There's subalterranean caverns
that run so deep and thorough through this, through the United
States that it's mind blowing. And if you want to get into the

(01:40:57):
weeds of this and you can find Native American people who will
visit, it'll even blow your mind.
I'm not going to. I can't get into all that out of
respect for them. And that should come from them
to tell you about it. But these places are all
connected through the underground.
OK, now here's where this even is more fascinating to me.

(01:41:19):
On this journey, I was told explicitly by Native American
elders that that oral history talked about four, four-star
people put here to help us on our journey.
Number one was Jesus Christ, butthe the people who put him here,
the star people can never understand how how we killed

(01:41:41):
him. OK, why they why we would do
that? The other was was Buddha.
And there's a tremendous amount of documentation and literature
of some very, very strange goingONS and, and research done in
Tibet. Hell, the Nazis were over there
sniffing around. OK, so so so we got Buddha,

(01:42:05):
Jesus Christ. I believe the other one was
Muhammad. The 4th 1 was a Native American
entity who's known as The White Buffalo Calf Woman.
OK, you can Google her and you can go down the rabbit hole all
you want. We can.

(01:42:25):
We could have another show on that all we want.
Yeah, we could. The reason I'm bringing that up
to you guys is Bob Lazar talked about some of this stuff with
John the Great, the late great, John Lear, the conspiracy
godfather. OK, Art Bell, we can go down the
rabbit hole. The point being is Lazar wasn't

(01:42:46):
sure what he saw on some of these briefings.
OK, but they, but there's some there's some talk that loosely
out there amongst some of these people has been doing this for a
long time, that there was a briefing that Lazar saw or
somebody else saw. And I'm getting it mixed up.
That said these aliens had told them they that they they lost

(01:43:12):
one of those four-star people they put here.
Well, that would be The White Buffalo Calf Woman, OK.
And there's a tremendous amount of literature about her.
And we have been on that trail for a number of years, myself
and a group of elders trying to understand where she fits into
this. And I can tell you unequivocally

(01:43:32):
that she is not just a Lakota assuming speaking people's
deity. She's a deity to Algonquin
people as well, so forth and so forth.
So let's let's let's sink in, OK.
And the reason I'm I'm talking about that all that is that ties
into a certain place here in theUnited States, OK, That not only

(01:43:59):
did the star people come and have these interactions with the
Native people, they gave them infusions of what you might call
spirituality, but plus other powers.
And this isn't coming from me. This is coming from Native
American people. I can take you to the point that
I'm taking you and I'm taking this out there for the listeners

(01:44:19):
to pay attention because this group of elders is working hard
to preserve this. And the reason I'm telling you
this is, is we've been talking about this civil war between the
North and the South, right? Between these people from North
America versus Mesoamerica and South America.
Well, guess where the truce was called between these northern

(01:44:40):
and Southerners? At a little place here in North
America where The White Buffalo Calf Woman is said to have been
and came to the people. So let that sink in.
We're talking about all of thesedifferent events having a point
that coincides right here in North America that, oh, by the

(01:45:04):
way, coincides with the Star people.
Too many. Too many coincidences, fellas.
Too many coincidences. This is interesting.
I actually never heard of this before.
The White Buffalo Calf Woman. Yeah, I never heard of this
before. Which is I don't even know how
I've never heard of this before.Like this is insane to me
because. Well, you don't know.
You don't know. Yeah, You know, I mean, it's,

(01:45:25):
it's a don't beat yourself up, man.
You know there's a. I'm reading like a brief summary
of it. I'm like dude, this is like
right line. Beat yourself up, Jeff.
Seriously. But but don't let yourself get
tied into that. She's only tied down to one
group of native people. That's just simply not true.
That's a misnomer. Listen again.
That's the controlled narrative A. 100% Listen, I got to be

(01:45:46):
honest, man. I'm gonna.
I'm gonna toot the horn of Grok a little bit, man, because I've
been using Grok a lot lately, dude.
And it says it right here, knownprimarily as Lakota, but from
several plain error, I'm going to go back to the actual quotes.
But yeah, it does say that sacred symbol in Lakota and
other plain Indian traditions. So, you know, there is something

(01:46:10):
happening with the information, the narrative.
I think things are going to start coming out more.
This is just like a sign of that.
I think the information age, thenew turning that we're getting
into, I think that a lot more truths are going to come out.
Yeah, Jeff, she was also called,she was called Corn Woman by the
Algonkins. Corn Woman.
OK, so this, this, this thing goes back so far, dude, about

(01:46:33):
certain landmarks where these people were rotating back to.
And you got to say, well, commonsense will say, well, how did
these people who are Algonkins who are supposed to be migrating
from the East Coast to the to the West Coast, how do they know
about these places? Well, it's pretty simple.
They actually went West to east and back West, you know, So
they, so they went across these places, had encounters with

(01:46:56):
people from another world. And they also had an encounter
with some type of phenomena thatis and has always been here on
this continent that the native people have lived with, not in
harmony. Because whatever this phenomena
is, it's not always nice. It's not, you know, it's not
benevolent. It's not benevolent.
It's just there, OK. And whatever this life force is,

(01:47:20):
it's not something to be messed with.
However people want to interpretthat, you know, take it in or
let it fly, you know, it doesn'tmatter to me.
It it's it doesn't matter to me.Yeah, that's super interesting
stuff, man. We listen, Lance, I definitely

(01:47:43):
want to have more conversations with you because, you know, I
feel like you and I could probably go for hours and hours
and a lot of this stuff. So hopefully we can make that
happen. Yeah, man, we, we can, we can do
it. But you know what?
I want to say thank you to you guys, but I also want to say
thanks to the listeners for somegreat questions.
Again, I don't want this to be about my journey.

(01:48:03):
This isn't this, this history. I'm just the very the luckiest
guy in the world for two reasons, OK?
Number one, I've been interestedin this my whole life and I got
to chase this and I met so many incredible people who helped me,
OK, Or none of this would have happened to these, the Lakotas,
Algonkins. And, and number two, I'm very

(01:48:25):
lucky because you know, my, my, my family was always very, very
encouraging for me to go to the library, get to the library,
read, read, read. My mom, my grandma, my wife has
been so supportive on this journey.
I / I overheard 10 years of vacations, OK.
And we're going to make it happen, but I want to just throw

(01:48:47):
this out there. I will do what I can for you
guys to meet native people who possibly will come on this show.
That's the least I can do. You know, you guys need to hear
it from these people and it's time that their voices are
heard. And you know what?
I can certainly come on with them, but they don't need me to
hold their hands, man. They, they've been holding my

(01:49:08):
hand for a long time and educating me and protecting me
and keeping my butt out of making some mistakes.
You know, we all make mistakes on this journey.
I've simply just tried to put this out the best that they told
me to and to give them thanks for sharing on the Little
Bighorn. They wanted some of this
information put out there and I did not want to take away from

(01:49:30):
the Little Bighorn literature, but they wanted stories told
about not only who was really there, but some of their
abilities. The story about calling on the
winged creatures. We, we can go on and on.
OK, but this was no accident that those people were
gathering. They knew their time was running

(01:49:52):
short and they had to worry about getting these bundles out
for hopefully something coming that they can possibly get back
to some type of a shape that they are were as medicinal
people to lead us through these trying times that are said to be
coming. Is it 2027?
Hell, I don't know. Is it 20-30?
I hope not, right? I hope these things don't

(01:50:14):
happen. Yeah, well, listen, man, the
information isn't dead, right? I mean, like, look, you're here
talking about it. The the elders and such, you
know, the Native people, they'retelling you about it.
So the oral traditions are stillthere, right?
The information is still alive. So if you get spooky enough like

(01:50:34):
I do that that's a good sign, right?
Like once the information is gone and nobody's talking about
anymore that that's the end, that's the apocalypse, right?
But the information still floating around there.
So, and you, you're saying it now, however many thousand
people will listen to this and like one person will pick it up,
right? And like that'll be there.
That's good. Yeah.

(01:50:55):
All right, Lance, we are. We will talk off the air.
We never got into Atlantis and Lamoria.
I stopped you guys. I'll take the hit for that one.
We'll I'm going to try to convince you to come back on so

(01:51:19):
we can pick that up. I have a little post it note sit
right there for if I can get youback on.
We'll jump right back in at Atlantis and Lamoria.
I had a feeling Jeff was going to love this one.
I also have a feeling that Jeff might try to snipe you for his

(01:51:39):
show, but we'll see. The only thing we.
Get to the. We didn't even get to the but
I'm yeah, go ahead. I know, man.
I know, I know. I, I knew this, this was going
to be a long, a long episode, man.
And. I don't feel conversations
right. Yeah, this was I, I know, I

(01:52:01):
know. This was this was AI knew we
weren't going to be able to fit it all in one episode.
But the only other thing that I wanted to touch on today that we
didn't get a chance to touch on was the the reptilians that you
had talked about and you had made mention about how they
were, they may have been riding them of the Missouri.

(01:52:23):
Is that what you said, the Missouri River?
Yeah, real, real quick, Jeremy. So the the story picks up with
when all were one at one time still on this continent.
And these it it starts with stories about dinosaurs.
Are the dinosaurs de evolving orevolving to these reptilians?

(01:52:45):
Are we talking about 1 and the same?
But the stories talk about fighting these dinosaurs,
fighting these reptilian like creatures, driving them back
across the Missouri River, then across the Mississippi River
into the American SE. And if you notice all of these

(01:53:05):
stories from whether whoever they are, they coincide in the
American SE, right? They finish down there.
Well, that's because that's where these people from
Mesoamerica and South America were coming in Florida and
Georgia. And oh, by the way, that's where
some of the Atlanteans are said to have landed also with the

(01:53:27):
Mayan people in Guatemala. So I mean, yeah.
So, so who are these reptilians?I, I have no idea, but I, I, I
would, I'll throw a plug out there real quick.
Get on Facebook or YouTube and, and look for Terry L Carter.
Terry L Carter. He's been doing research for a

(01:53:50):
long, long time. He's a wonderful man.
He'll, he'll visit with you. He'll give you his time.
You guys might want to get him on the show.
He does his own podcast where heinterviewed all kinds of
treasure hunters and seekers outin Utah and Arizona, New Mexico
and Nevada. And he has talked a lot and
brought a lot of people on this show that talk about running

(01:54:12):
into reptilians, still running around to those areas, OK.
And I don't want to drop any of the guys names that are on his
show, but you can find them yourselves and maybe you can get
those guys on there. I visited with them as much as I
can. Good guys off the record.
And Jeremy, I'm telling you and Jeff, I'm telling you, these
cats believe that they are running into these reptilian

(01:54:35):
people still to this day, OK? I don't want.
Any part of it because I, I don't know what good could come
about that, but that would take some serious, serious boots on
the ground and whatever. And if these things are still
running around, then where's ourgovernment?

(01:54:55):
Where's our government man? You know they are the government
man. Well, I mean, it all ties in
like you had made mention of David Pilates earlier.
We've talked at length here about the missing 411.
We've covered it in a series that we call the National Park
Mysteries. And there we've we've gone at

(01:55:16):
length about theories about whatcould potentially be going on
there. And there are a there, there's
just a ton of ideas behind what could be potentially going.
One of which is that there is a secret race of reptilian beings
that the the government created these safe spaces or these these

(01:55:38):
these dead zones. Do not go too deep into these
dead zones, these National Park systems to.
And and that's the reason why people are mysteriously
disappearing is because they aregoing too far.
And yeah, and. Perhaps, man, perhaps, you know,
I would just argue that I'd, I'deven say that.

(01:55:59):
Hey, man, like there's, they've been here the whole time with
us, man. And as we evolved into this new
society, so do they, right. And they've infiltrated their
way into places of power becausethey're smart beings.
I mean, they've been here all along, right?
Not they're not stupid. They might be evil or whatever,
but they're, they're smart enough to, to put themselves in
places that are, you know. I don't hide.

(01:56:22):
Plain sight. I don't have the research in
front of me right now. It's something that I came
across a while back, but somebody had done extensive
research on a specific species of dinosaur and, and basically
said that if it hadn't come downto the extinction event that the
specific species known as the true Don would have or could

(01:56:47):
have because of the genetic makeup and the brain power,
brain capacity, the neural networks and everything of the
Trudon. It would have or could have gone
down a similar evolutionary pattern as the as humans did and
very well could have evolved into something similar to what

(01:57:07):
we believe to be a reptilian. So, so, so if anybody wants to
do research into that Trudon TROODON is the is the species of
the dinosaur that that people are some are believing that

(01:57:28):
could very well be behind the reptilian phenomena.
That's an interesting path to godown.
I, I, I went down that before I was actually supposed to do an
episode on it one time never did.
But I, before we handed off to Lance for goodbyes and and
plugs, Lance, you had plugged a couple books in the chat here

(01:57:54):
that never, never for some reason, your, your chats never
made it over to, to Twitch. So I just wanted to, I, I put
them in my Amazon cart. So I just wanted to read them
off for everybody again. We have The World We Used to
live in. Remembering the Powers and the

(01:58:15):
Medicine Men by Vine Deloria Junior and Philip J Deloria.
Yep, right here. We have The Wolves of Heaven,
Cheyenne, shamanism, ceremonies and prehistoric origins.
Yep, Yep, Yep by Carl H Schleiser.
And then we had Schlesler. And Then He Walked the Americas

(01:58:38):
by Taylor Hanson. Yeah, yeah.
That's that's a hell of a book. She was a she was a trained
anthropologist from Stanford in the 30s.
She was discriminated against because of being a woman.
They tried to stick her into thearchives at San Jose State and
Stanford and she said shove it. And she travelled the South and

(01:59:01):
Central America and she got on the trail of much of the stuff
that you guys and I talked to tonight.
She was on the trail of the Lemurians.
She spent time in the South Pacific.
She was on the trail of these reptilians.
And she talks about a lot of this stuff.
Get that book. You can get it on Amazon for 20
bucks. And what I loved about her was

(01:59:24):
she was getting research that she found when she was relegated
to an archivist. She was doing her own research
for these, you know, guys like Kroeber and the likes at Cal, at
Berkeley. And she was in the Bancroft
Library going through documentation from native people
from 1870 to 1877. So they're telling her that

(01:59:44):
story, right? Yeah.
I mean, you know, it goes on andon.
This stuff has been around for for so for so long.
But Jeremy and Jeff, let me giveyou one plug for a book.
Now. This this book will not.
Steer you wrong. And it's called my grandfather's
altar. Richard Moose camp.

(02:00:07):
OK, You can get it on Amazon if you want to take Jeff.
This is right up your alley, man.
You need to get this book. And I'm telling the people out
there, this man was raised by a family of people of medicinal
people. And by the way, this guy's

(02:00:29):
great, great grandfather, his name was Chips or Horn Chips.
I'm not going to pronounce his Indian name.
His grandfather Chips or Horn Chips.
Was that the was that the littleBighorn?
And he was crazy horses dear friend and his medicinal man who
gave him some medicines to protect him in battle.
But this book is like no other out there and it talks about the

(02:00:53):
things that you guys and I have talked real quick about, about
the star people and the abilities of these people.
And I, I did not, I, I, it's notmy place to talk about this
because Dickie is my friend. I want him to get his
recognition and his history to come out for, to preserve it for

(02:01:14):
his people. But people in America, if you
read this book, your eyes will be opened and a lot more
understanding. It can explain things in
layman's terms about these people and their abilities, OK.
And he did it for his people andthe future generations, OK?
It's not like he doesn't want this known.
He's talking about it. And he goes into one very

(02:01:39):
fascinating thing, and I'll say this.
He talked about the the powers that the people had back in the
day. And one of these was possibly
that went underground a power tocommunicate with their people in
the future. Jeremy, give me the link to that
book because I know you already got it pulled up.
So, but that book, that book will open your eyes and open our

(02:02:03):
eyes. All of us should be digging into
that book. My Grandfather's Altar by
Richard Moose Camp Incredible, incredible human being.
So giving up his time and sincere, incredible, incredible
man. So I appreciate you guys

(02:02:24):
listening, man. Thank you so much.
It's been a great night. Yeah.
Thanks, Lance. We appreciate.
You, brother. Phenomenal, phenomenal stuff.
Yeah, wrap this up, Jeremy. I'm tired.
I gotta go to bed, man. I just put the link for the
Amazon link for that book in thechat there.
I'm also going to really quick for everyone, Lance, do you, do

(02:02:54):
you only sell your book off Amazon or do you have a website?
No, it's, it's, it's only on Amazon and I'll, I'll do my
shameless plug here. It is the the history they tell
oral history from Native American and First Nations
people regarding the battle, thelittle Big Horn.
It's 20 chapters. This information had not come

(02:03:14):
out until we were fortunate enough to be able to give
permission to put it out. We tried to talk about as many
people who were there that's noton the record and some of these
abilities that they people had. And then we told what was told
to us without changing it. And then I do a deep dive in the
historical record and it's on Amazon for 2499.

(02:03:35):
Thanks for letting me plug it. And, you know, if people read
it, give us a review. If you like it, great.
If you don't, that's fine too. But be specific why you like it
or you don't like it. So we can, you know, tailor our
research later on for that. Because as a writer and an
author, that's what, you know, keeps us going, right?
So thanks for letting me plug itman.

(02:03:56):
Absolutely, I put I put your your link in there too.
Thank you. Appreciate it.
It's not showing up on on Riverside's chat, but it is in
the in the the twitch chat wherewhere most of our our our
listeners are are watching rightnow.
I don't see it, looks like everyone fell off a YouTube and

(02:04:17):
X but Twitch is. Still, I just bought my
grandfather's altar, and that's the first book I've ever
purchased off of a recommendation in the four years
I've been doing this show. That's the first time I pulled
the trigger on a book. Hell yeah, Thank you.
And you know what? You, you just, you just stepped

(02:04:39):
into the rabbit hole, bro. So wait till you read that
thing. You're you're going to have to
read each chapter like twice to let that thing sink in, OK?
Oh, I'm ready, man. Because there is nothing,
nothing like it out there. For sure.
That's right, I bought. I bought 6 books tonight.
All right, wait till you wait till you read Vine Deloria's

(02:05:02):
book the The World We Used to Live In.
There's a story in there about when the US government officials
were trying to deal with the Arikara, who are a cattle and
speaking people who will be scouts for the US Army at the
Little Bighorn. And they were once about 20,000

(02:05:25):
people along the Missouri River in South Dakota.
They came out and dealt with these all these bands of Aricura
in the 1830s. And these Aricura.
We're having ceremonies tonight for these bigwigs from
Washington, DC And there's Army troops out there.
And they come out of the woodwork.
There's like something like 15,000 of them out there.

(02:05:47):
And one of these stories goes the the the medicine societies
and the warrior societies are all doing their dances a night
around a massive bonfire. Thousands of these people are
are just crowding around these guys.
And one of these medicine men comes out and he pulls out like
some type of a par flesh, a homemade, like think of it as a

(02:06:08):
homemade kit. And he pulled out a bunch of mud
from the Missouri River, OK. And they said all of a sudden,
like 10,000 people go deathly quiet.
This bonfire is massive and it starts cracking.
And this medicine man starts molding in this mud figurines of
warriors and horses. OK, so the horse is on the

(02:06:31):
plains by now, contrary to what people say, the horse has been
on the plains for a long time. And these are ricker were mighty
powerful warriors. And this medicine man starts
making these these figurines andhe starts talking in a Ricker
and these and they say that these figurines came alive and
these dignitaries from Washington and these army guys

(02:06:53):
are like holy mackerel. And they start having like a
sham Buffalo hunt. He made buffaloes and guys.
And they start chasing these. It's it's like out of one of
those clash of the Titans, OK, you know where those figurines
are moving around. He said that those figurines
start killing the Buffalo and all the people then start

(02:07:15):
chanting or singing or somethinglike this.
And it culminates with they killall the Buffalo and the medicine
man then orders those warriors and those on their horses to
then run into the fire and get this not, not all of them would
do it. And he kept like, I command you,

(02:07:37):
you know, like Raiders of the Lost Ark or something like that.
I command you. And his medicine was so
powerful. These figurines would not kill
themselves in essence. And finally they did, but they
didn't want to go into the fire.The guys, if you want to believe
it, believe it. If you don't, that's your
journey. But that story's from the 1830s,

(02:08:00):
guys. What, what do you suppose it
would have been like to been outthere?
And then you're going to come back and tell a story like that
and, and risk losing your job and Washington, DC, I doubt it
very much. You know, kind of common sense,
right? Yeah, shit.
Risk losing your life, man. Because back then, you know, you

(02:08:20):
start, you start talking about that kind of stuff.
I mean, you're, you're, you're liable to get burned at the
stake or hung or something, right?
Like. I know like wake up, wake up.
Yeah, it's crazy. Wake up, man.
All right, let's go ahead and end this.
Lance, I'm. I'm going to reach out to you

(02:08:40):
tomorrow or Tuesday or somethingjust to touch base, say thank
you once again. Is there anything else that you
want to plug? Anything at all?
Please go ahead and take the time to do it.
Shameless says anything, man, just go for it.
Anything at all. Well, I mean, we've covered
along a great talk. We've covered a lot of stuff.

(02:09:01):
I've I've thrown a lot at you. I'm happy to do it and I'm happy
to visit with anybody They can shoot me a message, my websites
up and running at lancej.doral.com.
Feel free to shoot me a message and I'll do my best to steer you
to the stuff that I've encountered and I've been doing
this a long time. I'm not on this journey to be a

(02:09:23):
talking head. I'm just trying to get everybody
to wake up a little bit and to pay attention to these people.
And again, I'll do my best to get you guys connected to a lot
of these people and I think theywill eventually have some
dialogue with you whether or notwe can get them here.
But I think that's a pretty goodstart.
I'm looking at my library over here and trying to wonder what

(02:09:44):
happens to me when this if I make my journey and my poor
wife's got to sort it out. I'm trying to get my little
hometown library back in Northwest Missouri to take all
of these books because that place was so dear to me.
But now I think we're good for now.
Well, it will save it for the next time and we can we can

(02:10:06):
visit a little bit and there's some more stories about the
Little Big Horn. And you know, there's a lot of
stories about who the descendants and ancestors of the
Native American people are. And if you look back on your
wall behind you, Jeremy, there'sa couple of designs back there.

(02:10:31):
Your wall ornaments that a lot of people are talking about
these days Go to your, go to your right.
There you go. Keep going, keep going.
He goes those. Those, those, those people,
we'll call them that people. And that that needs to be a very

(02:10:55):
pristine and a very respected conversation.
And that's one of those ones where we need to have some of
the Native people with us if they will.
That's a tall order, but that doesn't need to be coming from
me. There's plenty of people who've
talked about this. I can hook you up with some guys
in the field who who've been doing this a long time.

(02:11:17):
But that information about thosepeople is sacred and it needs to
be paid attention to because that's a whole whole three other
shows for you guys to to take the people and your listeners
down, OK? Because that is not to be messed
with. And those people, we need to pay

(02:11:38):
attention to that history. I'll leave it there.
Sounds good. Sounds real good.
Jeff, you got any last words, bud?
No, man, this was this was awesome.
I'm looking forward to some moreof these.
Appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you guys.
I appreciate what you're doing and thanks for having me and

(02:11:59):
thanks for all the listeners andthe great comments.
I appreciate all of the stuff and I appreciate somebody
listening. It means a great deal.
And you know, this is a marathon, fellas.
This isn't a a Sprint right now,although it feels like we're in
a Sprint. This is a marathon and this is a
journey and there is an end gameand I'm not sure it's going to
be real good and that's why we need to pay attention to these

(02:12:21):
native people. Absolutely.
You know, there it is. I appreciate you guys.
Thank you. Thank you.
Absolutely. Hang tight for just a few
minutes after we after we end. Just need a second for the
system to grab your audio and then we'll we'll say our
goodbyes, but don't go anywhere after I close out.

(02:12:42):
All right, all right, travelers,that's all I have for you
tonight. It's that was a great interview.
That was amazing. I knew this one was going to be
good. The moment I got off the phone
with Lance the other night, I was like, Yep, all right, this
one's going to be good. I shot a text over to Jeff and I
was like, hey man, I have a feeling you're going to like

(02:13:03):
this one. And that was that was pretty
much about it. So like I said at the beginning
of the episode, a little bit of a teaser.
Hopefully, hopefully, actually, you know what, screw that, not
hopefully June 1st, which is a Sunday, we will have the next

(02:13:28):
Patreon episode go live. We are getting back into the
swing of that. Everything has settled.
I am comfortable enough now to go ahead and start up the
Patreon again. It is the Rio Tatsuki the the
future I saw manga, Prophetic Vision manga from 1999.

(02:13:54):
For those of you that saw on my social medias, this is it right
here. It is absolutely mind blowing.
Some very, very interesting stuff and some very interesting
stuff in there about July 5th, 2025 off the southeastern coast
of Japan. So hang tight.

(02:14:15):
It is coming June 1st. I will be recording it this
week, getting the editing done, uploading it, and it will be
ready to go going live June 1st on our Patreon.
With that being said, archives might be pushed out just a
little bit. Looks like we might have to push

(02:14:36):
out a month, maybe 2. We're cutting it close with UFO
Day festival coming up. I just don't think I'm going to
have everything ready to my liking to be dropped on July 1st
like I like I had originally announced.
So I'm going to give myself an extra month or two as a buffer

(02:14:57):
to make sure I can get it out nice and pristine and pretty for
you guys and not have to competewith UFO Days, and that's that.
All right. Well, Jeff, you got anything on
shadow bands front? Nope.
All right. Probably an episode tomorrow.

(02:15:18):
If not tomorrow, probably Tuesday.
If not Tuesday, probably next week.
Jeff is so laid back. All right, well, that has been
another episode of the Infinite Rabbit Hole podcast.
Thank you, travellers really do appreciate you stopping by.
I appreciate you stopping by every week and checking out what
we have to say. Until next time, we'll see you

(02:15:42):
right here in the next fork and path of the Infinite Rabbit
Hole. Goodbye everybody, No buys.
Jess, bye. Bye you.
Got to say bye Lance, sorry. Goodbye, thank you all very
much. Hey everybody, thanks for

(02:16:06):
checking out the Infinite RabbitHole podcast.
If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to
infiniterabbithole.com where youcan find links to all the
podcast players that we are available on and even our video
platforms such as TikTok and YouTube.
While you're there, make sure tocheck out all the links for our
socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff
from our podcast comes out. And until next time, travelers,

(02:16:29):
we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the
Infinite Rabbit hole. Bye.

All Episodes

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

Dateline NBC

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}220. Star People & The Battle of Little Bighorn w/ Lance Dorrel Part 1

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

.css-r6mb8g{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:1;overflow:hidden;}Stuff You Should Know

New Heights with Jason & Travis Kelce

Dateline NBC

All Episodes

220. Star People & The Battle of Little Bighorn w/ Lance Dorrel Part 1

Stuff You Should Know