234. Paul Vecchiet 2: Disclosure Paradox & the ET Shroud of Turin Theory

Today, on one of (if not) our most most controversial conversations. We have a deep discussion with author Paul Vecchiet as he explores the mysteries of the Shroud of Turin, extraterrestrial theories, and the intriguing connections between spirituality and science fiction. Discover the hidden links between his novels and the broader questions of faith, technology, and the universe. Join us for a thought-provoking journey that challenges conventional beliefs and invites curiosity. Welcome back to Infinite Rabbit Hole!

For everything IRH, visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠InfiniteRabbitHole.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join us live every Sunday on ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitch.tv/InfiniteRabbitHole⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ at 8PM CST!

Episode Transcript

(00:02):
Imagine that this line represents a time present, 1985
Future Past. Prior to this point in time,
somewhere in the past the timeline you moved into this
tangent, creating a water in 1985 alternate you need.

(00:38):
Welcome back to The Infinite Rabbit Hole.
I'm your host, Jeremy, and tonight we have a return guest.
We got Paul, Vicki Yet, who is back to talk about his second
book. The first time we had him, we
had him back in February where he talked about his book The
Disclosure Paradox, which was a book that talked about, well, a

(01:00):
lot of stuff. Mostly, well, I can't even say,
mostly because it was really just a grab bag of a ton of shit
to be honest with you. If you were here to to listen to
the conversation that we had, you know that we touched a
little bit on the alien disclosure, the Akashic records,
out of body experiences. There was quite a bit that we

(01:23):
that we jumped into the conversation got pretty deep.
We did have a little bit of technical difficulties, but
seems to be that that has been fixed.
So it looks like we got Paul allto ourselves tonight and he is
going to talk to us about the sequel to his book today.
So if it this conversation is anything like the last one, it's
going to be crazy. So go ahead, Paul, go ahead and

(01:46):
give us the spiel about what we're in for tonight.
And welcome back to Infant Rabbit Hole.
Sure, we can go a little bit on the overview of the the first
novel. The reason that I write science
fiction on these topics is to get people who otherwise would

(02:09):
not read about these topics in non fiction.
There are so many books out there on UFOs and
extraterrestrials and, and people with spiritual
experiences and there are many books out there about the
shroud. And then the people that need to
read that won't read it because they have certain biases or they

(02:31):
have certain beliefs. So I try to attract those
readers with science fiction andand that's what I did with the
first book and that's what I'm doing with the second book.
Now, the shroud, you're talking about the Shroud tour.
Yes. All right, all right.
So that's let's let's OK. So that's a completely different

(02:53):
Ave. than the first place. Right.
However, the link is about Dulce, for example, because my
hypothesis about Dulce was that they were investigating our
Physiology and they were testingour blood and they were looking

(03:16):
for DNA stuff in our DNA. And the, the premise behind the
novel is that they failed. They, they failed to find what
they were looking for. I have a hypothesis about, about

(03:37):
these malevolent beings. I've I've heard testimony that
they do not know what love is. They can't even synthesize it.
So what if they're looking for something in our DNA that makes
us love? And why would they do that?

(03:58):
Because the benevolent beings use love as a signature when
they greet each other in distance, in in space and craft.
In other words, they're telepathic.
They don't use radio radio like we do it.
It's all with the mind. So the hypothesis what if the

(04:24):
malevolent ones can actually synthesize love, use it as a way
to fool the benevolent ones and then ambush them?
And that's what the premises behind the second book, they
failed to find that out in our DNA in Dulce.
And so they realize that there'sanother source for that, for

(04:49):
that kind of DNA. And that is in the shroud of
Turin, where you have Jesus's blood and you know, he, he's a
hybrid, he's human and then partbenevolent entity.
And they want that to to copy for their own to to weaponize

(05:15):
over. So that's that's the Lincoln in
in the two books DNA. So take a step back there,
something that we really haven'tdove into very much in in this
podcast as of yet is the allure of Dolce New Mexico, right?

(05:37):
So I just want to take a step back there and and kind of bring
everybody in on the the mystery behind that.
So Dolce is it? It's the weird of the weird,
really. There's a a lot of conspiracy or
theories about what what's goingon there.

(05:59):
Basically, it's tough to actually talk about where it's
where to start, right? The the gist.
Yeah, go ahead. You want to.
Think that. Go ahead.
Yeah. So the reason I, I have that in
there, just like all of the testimony I got from people that
I've met over the years, I, I happen to have contact with,

(06:24):
with a woman whose mother was CIA.
And before this woman, this mother passed away, she gave her
documents that she felt needed to be passed on and not
destroyed. And they were documents about
Dulce, NM and the autopsies of Grace.

(06:53):
So I use that information in in my novel I read, I read those
documents and it's quite compelling.
Obviously coming from the that source, I feel that there's some
validation there. And the interesting thing about
Dulce is it's on a, an Indian Reservation and a Hickory Apache

(07:16):
reservation. The Nate, the natives there,
the, the people that live there and their lore actually has
something about spiritual activity that they, they, they
find either, you know, lights going up in the sky from this

(07:38):
Mesa or sounds or, or something.And they attribute it to to
spirituality or to their, their origin.
And since it is a very sacred area to them, they kind of act
like bouncers. So they keep people away and it

(07:58):
and, and it's very convenient for who is really there, which
is a reptilian race. And then later on when we, we
made a, a deal, not us, but the military industrial complex made
a deal with them. They made an addition to that.
So it's a joint reptilian and mercenary base.

(08:22):
It's not as active as it was in the 70s when, when they were
doing all the abductions becausethings have died down.
And I think it's probably because they're failing in, in
trying to find out what they're looking for.
But it's it's there. You're muted, Jeremy.

(08:45):
Yeah, you were muted. Look at that.
It's like, I haven't done this before.
There's there's a lot of stuff from from way, way back, but
there's also a lot of lot of recent stuff too.
Everything from finding great aliens in in the caverns when

(09:08):
when they were digging. You know a dumb a deep
underground military base, whispers of secret dulce base
under Arkleva Mesa. They feel tons of wild
conspiracies. Basically picture A7 story
underground lab where the government and aliens allegedly

(09:29):
craft human alien hybrids right.This all kicked off in the 70s
basically with cattle mutilations, right?
There was a state trooper out there, I think his name was Gabe
Valdez, who was witnessing or being reported that there was
tons of UFOs and cattle mutilations.

(09:50):
And he started recognizing that a lot of these cows were sliced
very cleanly. Blood strained, odd fetuses were
found. And then you had physicists like
Paul Benowitz who claimed that aliens were sending signals from
there and to there in the 90s, Phil Schneider said he fought

(10:10):
Gray aliens there. He lost fingers before he died
in 1996. Locals reported strange lights
and and helicopters, right? The the black copters the the
the stealth silent H60 Blackhawks if you will.

(10:34):
Some say a mountainside opens for for a spacecraft.
Skeptics call it a cover for military tests.
May be linked to even nuclear projects in like the 60s.
No proof of this ever exists, but Dulce UFO conference, which
is held I think annually, keeps everything alive because people

(10:58):
flock there all the time. And this stuff continues to, to,
to basically grow in the, in the, in the, in the Petri dish
that is conspiracy. There's a lot of interesting

(11:19):
stuff in, in Dulce, right? In fact, I mean Dulce was around
before the likes of like Skinwalker Ranch right?
I mean like you said, there was stories of weird shit happening
there back in in the times of the natives.
I mean similar with Skinwalker Ranch, but the the amount of

(11:45):
information coming out of that area was much more prevalent
than it was in the UN to basin like in Skinwalker Ranch.
I got a question about that. Was Dulce one of the ones you
guys familiar with? Phil Schneider?
Yeah, I just mentioned. Phil Schneider Oh, sorry, I was.
I was reading something else. So he was one of the apparently,
right. He was one of the guys who was

(12:07):
helping build Dulce back in the day or his company.
He was definitely a part of Dulce.
He was he. He was one of the guys that dug
and came across those those creatures on the crown, right.
Yeah, like apparently, you know,he had the company that or a
company that was assisting in a lot of those dumb constructions

(12:28):
and yeah, like when they would dig down into the earth in these
spots, cause of course they put these bases in specific
locations, right? That and at least one of them,
if not more than one, they came across like underground caverns
that were like already there with beings inside.
And apparently, yeah, that's howhis hand got all deformed,

(12:50):
because apparently, like, they got into Dolce.
Was the area where that happened.
That was OK. That's what I was wondering, if
that was the spot. OK.
Yep, Yep. Sorry, I was reading something
else when you were talking aboutthat so I didn't catch you
talking about him so. Yep.
So now. We're tracking.
Tracking, yeah. I just wanted to to make sure

(13:11):
everyone was kind of on track ofhow important that that place is
or how how important that may beto your story.
I don't know the story yet. I haven't had a chance to read a
book, but when somebody mentionsDulce, it tends to be a
highlighted place. So I just want to make sure
because we haven't really dove into the lore and everything

(13:34):
behind Dulce here on Infinite Rabbit Hole yet.
We should, we really should because it's absolutely
fascinating. But I just wanted to take a
second there and make sure people understood what what you
were implying with that. Sure, OK.

(13:54):
Jeff, did you have anything there, bud?
No, no, I mean, I'm, I'm curiousto get into like some of the
Shroud of Turin stuff, to be honest with you, because I have
my own thoughts about that personally.
But yeah, I'm, I'm stoked to getinto that so.
Well, let's Paul. Yeah.

(14:15):
What do you where? Where do you want to take us
next, man? Well, all right, so the the
first book is almost like a an autobiography and there are a
couple things that I want peopleto take away from it.

(14:37):
It's called the disclosure paradise because I feel that
disclosure will lead to something that is not
anticipated, which is the paradox.
I feel that the reason that governments have been slow on

(15:02):
disclosure is that they've been warned by entities that
disclosure will lead to unacceptable events.
And their concern, the NTS are concern, is that it would lead

(15:24):
to contact, which will lead to atechnological exchange.
And because of the negative forces that are on this planet,
greed, lack of ethics that will combine to take that technology,

(15:44):
weaponize it, and then we would use it against them.
So that's what they're concernedabout and that's what the story
really is in the disclosure Paradox.
That's why I call it that. There are a couple, I guess,
tenets that that I want the readers to understand if we're

(16:09):
talking spiritually, and that isthat others have a greater
impact on our lives than we haveon ourselves.
And that I do explain the the concept of fate and destiny and
that it it is real. Everyone has a role to play.
Some are larger than others. And I think I feel that that my

(16:36):
role was actually talking about the, the what would I, I am
talking about in this in the second book, which is getting
people to learn more about the Shroud of Turin.
So what happens in the second book is a conspiracy to steal

(16:59):
the Shroud of Turin. It's a a plan with an insider in
the Vatican and he teams up witha malevolent force.
I called him the Archons. They are like demons and they
want to get a hold of the, the DNA.

(17:22):
The, the thing about the, the relationship between the, the
Archons and the shroud is that even if you mention the name of
Jesus, it, it terrifies them. So they can't even touch
anything that that Jesus has touched in reality.

(17:42):
And that's why they needed a human to get that.
So the, the book starts out witha murder in the Vatican and the
murder is of a, a war buddy fromone of the heroes in book 1.
And that is the, the Ranger, a former Ranger, Robert Ladd.

(18:06):
So that's how the book starts. And he goes to the Vatican and,
and teams up with Interpol with the US embassy.
They help him out to, to get into the Vatican to seek out who

(18:26):
was responsible for the death ofhis friend.
That's, that's pretty much the beginning of the plot.
But there's, there's a very strong spiritual content in
there. And so Robert Ladd starts out as
an atheist, but because of what happens to him and his visions

(18:49):
that he's get while he's in a coma because he's attacked with
nerve agent, much like the nerveagent attack of the the British
in 2018 by the Russians. If you call that, I kind of
follow, follow that. And I and I researched that.
So I made sure I was doing everything right in the story.

(19:11):
But there there's an entire chapter in that second book on
the facts that authenticate the shroud.
And that's why a foreign bendicting monk actually has
he's written the foreword for that novel for me.
Now I got to tell you something though.
I had no intention of writing this book because the first two

(19:35):
books that I, that I self published first, they didn't do
too well. So what happened was that this
former Benedicti monk saw it in the Internet.
He, he looked for a book that was about extraterrestrials and
spirituality, and he found the first book, The Disclosure

(19:56):
Paradox, and he liked it. And then he friended me and he,
he told me, you know what's missing from this book?
Is the Shroud of Turin and I didn't think much about it and
he started to send me documents,research papers from all over
the world about the Shroud of Turin on every discipline,
botany, forensics, hematology, archaeology, all of that.

(20:20):
And it started to interest me because I was fascinated by all
the things that was authenticating it.
And so I decided to write a, an outline, gave it to him, he
liked it. And then I wrote the manuscript
six months after I wrote the outline and I sent it to him and
he liked it to the point where he's actually written the

(20:42):
foreword for it. And it was this book that
actually got the attention of a an editor and a publisher.
And when they found out that I had two other books in the
series that I self published, they wanted to see those, they
liked them, we reworked them. And that's why the first one was

(21:05):
published again in February of this year.
So this one is actually a third book, but it's actually a sequel
to to the second one. The second book was a prequel to
the first one. So it kind of goes back to my,
you know, my hypothesis about the roles that we have, the

(21:28):
people that we meet, the, the fate and destiny.
There's so many things that had to happen for me to get to the
point where I'm talking to you right now that it's, it's not
coincidence there. There was obviously a plan in in
place. So question for you, when it

(21:51):
comes to the shroud itself, do you believe that it is like
legit, that it's actually like? Yeah.
OK, because I've always been kind of iffy.
I haven't done a lot of researchon that particular item, right?
Personally, I'm familiar with itto an extent, but I've also in

(22:12):
my conspiracy travels, right? I've, I've always come across
those guys who claim that the depiction of Jesus that we all
know of, like what he looks like, is actually a depiction of
Pope Alexander the Sixth son, right?
Have you heard this before? No.
So Pope Alexander the 6th was known as like the the father of

(22:36):
Christianity, right during the Roman Empire.
And apparently his son is is theimage that we all see as Jesus,
right? He used, like, his own son's
likeness when they started, like, you know, printing these
books, if you will, and like, drawing all these depictions of
Jesus back in the medieval times, right?

(22:58):
Those medieval times, he said, is is like a century.
Yeah, yeah. It's like 13th century or
something like that. It's so it's a few 100 years,
you know, or quite a long time actually.
It's like 1314, hundred years after the time of Jesus.
So now I know that there is likesome forensic evidence and like
carbon dating and things like that.

(23:19):
Well from what I understand the carbon dating of the shroud goes
back to like 13 something. Correct.
Yeah. And I have a explanation on
that. Yeah, well, I don't trust carbon
dating personally. I've talked about this on the
show 1000 times. I think carbon dating is a
complete lie. So I don't really, I don't
really buy into that too much. But yeah, I'm just kind of

(23:39):
curious on your, you know, like where you fall on that, you
know? Yeah.
All right, so the Shroud has gone through three known
identities. It was.
Well, first of all, it was the original linen that Jesus was
wrapped in. Second, it became the image of

(24:02):
Odessa. Third, it became the Mendelian.
And 4th finally it, it was the shroud.
OK, 4-4 different identities, same thing.
The image of Odessa, someone in around 5:30 AD took the linen,

(24:28):
folded it, put it in like a pillowcase with a hole in it
and, and stored it and, and thatwas the image of Odessa.
Odessa actually is right now thecity is called Ur.
And what happened was that this was because of Persian armies,

(24:57):
because of, of Islamic invasions.
The this image, which was about Christ's face, actually, because
they didn't know it was the bodywas in this image, they would
protect it and take it to placeswhere Christianity was

(25:20):
prevalent. And in one place it's called
Ravena in Italy. And in Ravena you have what's
called. There are mosaics and the style
of the art is called Christ Pentacador, and what that is is

(25:42):
it shows his face with the Halo and the face is exactly as the
image I shot, complete with the trauma on the nose from the
broken nose and you know, everything else.
The artist actually literally took the hole in that linen and

(26:08):
put it on that mosaic and that'sthe first time that we see the
Halo. So the Halo came from people
seeing his face in in that like case.
So your point about the the son of of the Pope is flawed there

(26:34):
because his image actually appears in 530 AD in in a mosaic
in Ravenna. Now regarding the regarding the
carbon dating, the reason that the carbon dating was flawed,

(26:54):
you know, and there are many hypotheses.
One was that they took a patch from the Middle Ages.
One is that the the air that they took was damaged from the
fire. They took it from a very end of
the cloth. Now, what causes that date is

(27:21):
what caused the image of the shroud.
And that image was made from radiation because the blood, if
you it, they, if you look at thethe fibers on the linen,

(27:42):
wherever there's blood, the fibers are saturated.
But wherever the image appears, you only have the very edges of
the fibers that are impacted. And the hypothesis is that the
image was made like by a radiological event and the

(28:03):
radiation impacted the the composition of the linen thereby
causing the false readings on the carbon dating.
There is a nuclear scientist, his name is Robert Rucker, and
he came up with the theory that if you took carbon dating from

(28:28):
the shroud and you made a graph that would show the dates, he
showed that if you took the carbonating from the strongest
point, which is the his torso, the date of the linen would be
in the fifty, 50th century AD. So that's called the cart

(28:57):
absorption hypothesis. Gotcha.
Interesting. Yeah.
I mean, I, I buy those explanations in the one about,
you know, the Pope's son. Honestly, I, I've never really
knew how to feel about that, although I thought that was an
interesting theory, that it was the Pope's son's depiction that
is Jesus. But I'm not, I'm not tied to it

(29:18):
in any way. So I'm tracking with you.
I've never heard the thing aboutthe Pope's son, and it might be
the same guy, but I I've heard something about like a Caesar
Borgia, sort of Borgia. Yeah, that's that's who that is.
It's the same guy. Yeah, it's the same guy.
So, yeah, you know, I'm, I'm always the one that's quick to

(29:39):
say that the elites will like invert or pervert information
just to like throw the rest of us off.
And that can very well be an example of that where it wasn't
really the depiction of his Son that we all see as Jesus, but
that they told us that it was the depiction of his Son just to
kind of, you know, muddy the waters, if you will.

(30:01):
So I'm with it. Yeah, I don't know too much
about the Shroud, to be honest with you, to even hold a candle
in this conversation. Yeah, I didn't want to derail
too much, but, you know, I was curious about your thoughts on
that. But no, that that's that's cool.
I like that. Yeah, the, the one hypothesis I

(30:22):
have about why the Vatican is not acknowledging the shroud as
authentic. It is actually.
There's a there's a good reason for it and there's there's two
elements that contribute to that.
The Vatican want they they want to protect the shroud.

(30:44):
They want to protect the shroud from extremists who would be
insulted by the Vatican saying that the shroud is real and that
there was a resurrection and that Jesus Christ was more than
just a prophet. And then the other is that there

(31:06):
are very wealthy people that have strong Christian background
that would like to have that andnot only have it, but they would
probably break it apart and sellit off to the highest bidders.
So there are the, the Vatican isstrong about that and they

(31:31):
maintain that there is no objectthat they will authenticate
because it's about faith. It's not about proof, it's not
about evidence. And and that's the way they
stand on it, but I feel that they're actually protecting the
Shroud for for those reasons. I can see that.

(31:53):
And my conspiracy brain also throws in that that third option
to like a lot of people say thatthe, the Vatican is no longer
what it used to be, right? There's there's bad actors now
that run the Vatican. So there could be something,
something there too, right? Like they just don't even want
to go there because they know it's true, you know, I mean,

(32:14):
but. Yeah, I have a chapter where
Robert Ladd has a meeting with the chief of staff of the
Vatican and they kind of share secrets and the Vatican knows
about the Archons and but they don't know that, you know, they
call them the Archons and. And so, you know, Robert Ladd
tells them what happened, how they were able to save the

(32:37):
shroud. And it's a very interesting
chapter because it the reader kind of gets an idea that these
guys are actually hiding something from us.
But then you get to understand why they are hiding for it.
I mean, they have, they have a, an office that is solely
responsible for investigating, you know, people that have had

(33:03):
visions or visitations claim to have, you know, some sort of
spiritual event happened to them.
And they call, they call that office the, the, the office of
Die Castries. But the one thing that I've,
I've studied in and researched is that they are very slow to

(33:27):
authenticate those experiences. And that is to protect the
people themselves rather than toto hide the the facts.
That makes sense. Yeah, Jeremy, you got to read
David Icke's book, man, because he talks all about these
Archons. Dude, remember I was talking to
you about the Archons a couple weeks ago?
Yeah. Right.
So it's it's a whole thing, man,but.

(33:48):
Yeah, I think that the gargoylesthat are shown on Gothic
churches, I think those are depictions of the Archons.
So a little little off topic, but yeah, since since your, you
know, your last book kind of delved into a lot of different
stuff and you're already at the Vatican, do you do you touch on

(34:14):
the Cronovisor at all? The the What Journal?
The Cronovisor father Arnetti's Cronovisor.
I'm not familiar with that. No, OK, we'll we'll we'll pass
that. I was just curious, do you go,

(34:35):
do you go into the talk about the archives and everything?
Oh, the Vatican archives. Yeah.
It's briefly mentioned in that one chapter where Robert and the
Cardinal are are talking and sharing secrets.
Yeah. Chronovisor is a legendary

(34:58):
supposedly non existent device created by Italian physicist and
and Benedict Tin priest Father Pellegrino Ernet Ernetti which
was which was claimed to allow people to view past events like
a time television by capturing residual electromagnetic echoes
from space-time. While Ernetti claimed it showed

(35:19):
historical moments like the crucifixion of Jesus Christ and
was hidden in the Vatican, thereis no specific evidence.
It's said to. Be in the.
It's said to be in the Vatican archives and it, it literally
supposedly just looks like a, a tablet, like a, like a little
electronic tablet that you can view any point in historical

(35:42):
past. You can watch any event.
And that, you know, you, you geta whole bunch of people that are
coming out now that you have quantum, quantum physics right
at the, the cusp of, of, of science or at the frontier of
science and quantum entanglementreally being looked at And, and

(36:05):
the, the true nature of that concept being discovered.
They're now they're saying that Father and Eddie's Chronovisor
could potentially have been a real thing if they had, if they
had some sort of inside Intel ofhow quantum entanglement worked.

(36:29):
Which they most certainly would have, right?
Like the Vatican is one of the most powerful institutions in
the world, right? So I would argue that just like
we talked about the military industrial complex has
technologies 30 years ahead of the public, I would argue the
Vatican probably does too. So I can see that being.
Yeah, at this point. Yeah, this is this book right

(36:50):
here. It's no shit paid paid over $100
for this stupid book. I I say stupid book only because
I paid over $100 for it, but it's a phenomenal book.
So are we talking, you know, advanced technology or he did he
actually invent that? Well, it, it was I, I, I don't

(37:18):
want to get too far off track. I don't want to get too far off
track. We, I can, I can kind of fill
you in off the bit, you know, I want to make sure I'm not taking
away from your book, man. I just want, I just want to know
if you, if you touched on it or not.
But you should definitely look into the the Chronovisor if if

(37:39):
it's something that you haven't in the past and this book if
you're interested in it. It's by Peter Kurasa and the
only place I could find it is oneBay.
Hey, well, you know your question, Paul, like did he
invent it or was it advanced technology?
I mean, if you know, when you kind of understand how these are

(37:59):
conic entities operate and how they they utilize human beings
for a lot of their, you know, happenings in like 3D World,
right in our in our reality, then both of those things could
be true actually, right. He could have invented it and
also it's advanced technology and also it's, you know, given
to him by our contact. That's actually where.

(38:23):
That's where I kind of came up with the idea to ask the
question was because of the our cons and the the Vatican.
And I was like, oh man, this kind of sounds like a corona
like there's a tie into the corona visor here.
And I was I was debating on whether or not I wanted to ask
you it because I didn't want to,to, to like to, to kill any

(38:46):
spoilers or anything. But here I'll I just for shits
and giggles, I, I just. Want to million things we could
go on about the Vatican man I mean like let's be real there
that you know it's a it's a spooky place right like all the
stuff that they got going on andthe you know Lucifer telescope
and all these types of things soyou you know you could go on for
hours about the Vatican but. But like it's, it's

(39:08):
legitimately, it's legitimately over $100 book.
My goodness. Like there's only one on eBay
right now, it's 150 bucks. It's amazing.
Yeah, it's it's silly. Yeah.

(39:28):
Anyways, carry on Paul with the story.
We both just totally derailed you so.
Sorry. Sorry man, welcome to the rabbit
hole. Yeah, he's used.
To it, that's he we did. That's literally getting into
the rabbit hole, isn't it? We we did A2 in one in February
too. Yeah.

(39:51):
Shall I explain to you a little bit about the the the image
itself and what it would take toactually?
Like copy this. This is your, this is your show
man. You you do whatever you want.
This is this. Is your show if you want to.
You want to talk about the shroud, you talk about the
shroud. You want to talk about your
book? You talk about your book.
You want. Whatever you want to do, man,

(40:11):
you're the guest. This is a chapter that that that
got the attention of the, you know of that.
His name is Joe Marino. He's written 99 books on the
Shroud. He's the president of the the
Shroud Education and Research Association.
He's, he's got a, a website. He, he is very well known in the

(40:33):
circles in Catholicism and in the shroud enthusiasts.
And I'm very fortunate that thathe actually, you know, endorsed
my, my novel. The one thing is that in 2011
the Italian National Agency for New technologies hypothesized

(40:58):
that the the conception of a mechanism to simulate the
process done to make the image on the shroud.
And they concluded that it require a high number of
individually calibrated micro lasers to make the
three-dimensional image. Because that's what you have.
You have a three-dimensional image of a of a of a person.

(41:21):
The amount of energy to power those lasers will be equivalent
to 34 trillion watts applied at 140 thousandth of a second to
preclude damage from excessive heat.
We don't have that technology. Our strongest laser is 8 billion
watts. So it you have to understand

(41:42):
that there's something otherworldly about this, this
relic, you know? Yeah, I mean, it's, it's
definitely, it's definitely a good mystery.
I, it's one of the few rabbit holes I haven't really gone

(42:06):
down. So I, I don't have really much
to stand on here with you. There's there's things in the
Vatican that I have looked into,obviously Chronovisor being one
of them. The, the shroud is
unfortunately, it's just not oneof them, man.
I, I, I don't really have much to to speak on with it.

(42:32):
Yeah, unfortunately it's pretty amazing that a lot of lay people
really don't understand just allof the the facts about the
shroud. You know that there are, they've
identified, you know, 58 pollen that are from the Middle East
and you know, Constantinople at that.

(42:53):
Now it's in Istanbul. The there is a pollen that
appears where the head is and it's called Bendelia.
And if you look up Bendelia, it's a thorn Bush in the Middle
East. And that was the thorns were
used to make his crown of thorns.
And you know, yeah, there it is.You can see all of the marks on

(43:23):
his back are from a tool that the the Romans used called a
flagellum. And where is it?
There were three lead balls thatwere attached to leather straps
on a, on a stick and they would use that to whip the victim.

(43:48):
And, and you could tell that there were two people that were
applying that force on his back and, and on the back of his, his
legs and his glutes. And then, you know, when they,
they show the crucifixion, they show that his, the nails go

(44:10):
through his hands. But that's not the case.
If you look at his wrist, they actually nailed his wrist and
you could see the blood stained on his wrist.
And the ankles as well. Yeah, yeah.
There was a a corner from Los Angeles that wrote an entire

(44:31):
essay where he did a report on on the victim in on the Shroud.
And, and he was actually able toto recognize that the blood
stains on his arms are from a victim that was suspended with

(44:52):
his arms at 65° and that the blood trickle down the arms.
So is it possible that it that the shroud is of somebody else
who was crucified at around the same time?
Well, I there there's an awful lot of of testimony about, you

(45:22):
know, Jesus's walk with the cross.
If the one of the things that the coroner's found is that on
his shoulder there are marks, rubbing marks that appear to be
coming from a very heavy object burying on his shoulders and

(45:47):
they crucified him with nails. The the other two people that
the the thieves were not nailed to to the cross.
They were roped on the cross. He was the only one that they
nailed. Was crucifixion, I don't know
enough about this personally, but was crucifixion like a
common practice in that time, like for for criminals or, you

(46:12):
know, and was nailing them to the cross?
Was Jesus like the only one or was that like a rare exception?
Like where most people tied to the cross and and did nobody
else carry their own cross to their to the location?
Was that like strictly Jesus, right?

(46:32):
They treated him that way because he was saying that he
was the Son of God. So they made him do things that
were inhuman and they they treated him as someone beyond
human. So he got like, he got like the
worst of it, worse than just like your run-of-the-mill.
I got you. OK, now fair enough.

(46:53):
Let me preface this guys, I'm not Catholic, I'm not Christian,
I am spiritualist, but so I don't believe that Jesus was the
son of God. I believe that he was the son of
somebody. And I believe that he was sent
for a reason that was different than what the Catholics say he

(47:14):
was. And I also feel that he was put
to death for a certain reason beyond what they say too.
So I want to make it clear that I'm not pontificating here about
the the actual faith. I'm just presenting evidence and

(47:39):
getting people to think about this person that was crucified,
that going not exactly in the steps that that Catholics and
the Christians would want us to.Fair enough to get outside the

(48:05):
box. Yeah, not fair enough.
I I can appreciate that thought actually.
Because they won't listen to me.I, I, I feel that that Jesus was
actually a result of artificial insemination and that, you know,

(48:25):
when he was crying out to his father, he's crying out to
somebody. Obviously that was high in in
the hierarchy of of the entitiesthat he was a part of.
And I feel that the that the shroud is actually part of the

(48:50):
reason that he died that for us to, you know, kind of leave in a
signature for us. And I feel that in the future,
what if we were to able to harvest his DNA and use it to
repair our own DNA, which I say is flawed in my first book.

(49:12):
That's the link there too. You know, that's an interesting
thought too, because, you know, I'm not necessarily a religious
person myself, but you know whatyou just said, there is kind of
like a, an alternative theory, Iguess, or prophecy, but still

(49:35):
could line up with the actual prophecy, right?
Like this being was here and it was here to save us.
And if that's how it's done right via DNA and and all that,
then like the, the, the end goalstill happens.
It just doesn't happen quite theway that people have kind of
thought it was going to happen for the last 2000.

(49:56):
Years now here's here's a couplefacts.
All right, here's a couple facts. 1 is that I learned that
there are 376 verses in the New Testament that mention his
blood. I don't think that's a
coincidence. I don't think that's an
accident. I think there's something to it.
I think that there was a, you know, something to emphasize
there. And when he said that his blood
will wash away the sins of the earth, I took that literally.

(50:21):
I didn't take that as a metaphor.
And I actually think that he didintend to leave his DNA so that
they we could repair our own DNA.
Yeah, that's interesting. That's an interesting thought
for sure. Interesting.
Interesting. Yeah, that's going to make some

(50:42):
religious people a little upset to hear, you know, there's,
there's some in the chat alreadythat are like heathen, right?
But it's like, chill, chill out,right?
Yeah. Yeah.
It it's dangerous to, you know, to, to be in circles and say
that that Jesus was not the son of God.

(51:03):
You really get a lot of pushbackfrom that.
It's probably good that we have Jeff here today, not Jake, to be
honest. That's AI mean I'm I I don't I
don't have any any room to standhere, man.
I don't I don't know much about these topics, but it's it's

(51:26):
definitely an interesting take. It's a take that I haven't heard
before, which is something that I like to hear right.
I like to hear these these pointof views.
Right. Extraterrestrial Jesus is not
something that I thought I was going to be listening to today.
That is that's new. That is definitely new.
Definitely something that I wasn't expecting.

(51:50):
I've, I've heard lots of variations of that, right?
Extraterrestrial Jesus, if you will, Like I've, I've heard
other theories and, and things along those lines, but bringing
it like into our future, like you're talking about, we're like
harvesting that DNA from the shroud and using that DNA to
repair our DNA, right, to save us, right?
That's something I haven't heardbefore.

(52:11):
That's interesting. That is interesting.
That is interesting. And I, I think it, I think you,
you touched on something that I've heard before that makes
sense, right? The, the shroud definitely has
the imagery of the outline of a human on it, right?

(52:32):
There's a. Good morning, Outline.
It's got the the entire thing, Yeah.
It's got the anatomy. Right, there's wounds,
everything. Yeah.
And the best way for that to imprint itself onto fabric,
right, is going to be with with beta particles or not beta

(52:54):
particles, but but gamma, gamma rays, gamma.
Rays, yeah. It's going to be gamma rays
because alpha beta particles wouldn't do that.
It would have to be gamma rays. So it has to be radiation and it
has to be gamma rays do. You remember, I don't know if
you know it, but in the Bible when he is resurrected and he

(53:17):
goes in and he speaks to Mary and he speaks to Mary Magdalene
when they're outside of the tomb, he tells them and he's
he's glowing and he tells them, do not touch me.
Do you remember that? It's in, it's in the in the New
Testament. So there's something about that,

(53:38):
you know, there's something about that radiation theory.
Sorry, I'm just taking a note here.
Yeah, I do. What?
When he was. It go ahead you.

(54:01):
Yeah, when you speak through I, I, I feel that the word God has
been probably bastardized over time.
I feel, I think, you know, when they they say the word God in an
Old Testament, New Testament, what if actually it refers to a

(54:23):
rank rather than the supreme being?
What if you know, what if we aremisinterpreting what they're
saying about using that word? That's what I feel because as I
mentioned in the first book, I saw what God is in that

(54:44):
meditation, where it is an energy made of all of the
energies between our lives. And you know, when the Bible
says that God is within us, God is around us, That's that's a
perfect explanation where it's in another realm and it's pure
energy. If you pray to energy, you're

(55:05):
not going to get anything out ofit.
So, so prayer doesn't really work for that.
And it's, it's nothing more thana creative energy because
thought is what that source is about and, and thought creates.
So those are my thoughts about, you know, the interpretations of

(55:32):
of classic religions. I feel that the greatest failure
in in human religions and theology is trying to explain
something using only the knowledge that we have as
humans. It, you know, it's like using

(55:55):
ape crayons to color your your calling book.
We're missing. We're missing information about
actually explaining what you what, what God is about.
And and I feel that seeing that that meditation that I described
in the first book probably is a piece of that puzzle.

(56:19):
You mute again. Oh.
I'm sorry I'm just I'm trying toanswer questions on the the
TikTok chat too that don't show up here so I'm trying to keep
them updated as well. Are there hostile people there?
Nope. Nope.
OK. No, no.
Surprisingly, I get chewed out on TikTok every time I go live

(56:42):
on TikTok, so I don't do it anymore.
We do have a few people in the Twitch chat that are a little, I
wouldn't say perturbed, but you know, like you said, when you
talk about these types of things, people who are strong in
their faith, they get a little uncomfortable or or angry to
some extent and listen, that's afair just for the people in the
chat like that. That's fair, right?

(57:02):
Like whatever. But nobody here is like telling
you what to believe. Nobody here is challenging your
faith or anything like that. This is a podcast about fringe
topics and this is a fringe topic.
So, you know, just take it with a grain of salt.
And if you're like a hardcore believer in in whatever faith
you follow, like great, good, you know, like this doesn't this

(57:24):
doesn't have to like compete with that or like anything like
that. So I just want to say that for
the people in the chat who are alittle bit uncomfortable with
this conversation, you know? Yeah.
And one, one thing that is transcends all religions is the
reason that we are here and we are here to make life better for
others instead of making life better for ourselves at the
expense of others. If we, if we just did that, we

(57:46):
would improve spiritually. And you know, it's our
spirituality that has prevented us from from being part of the
rest of the universal community.So if we just follow that, which
is actually just another set of words that Jesus actually spoke
of in in the New Testament, we would be able to really improve

(58:09):
our spirituality to get us to the point where where we could
actually join with the rest of the universe.
It's definitely it's, it's, it'sdefinitely a unique point,
right? It's a just to kind of piggyback

(58:31):
off of what Jeff was saying, right?
People are, people are going to listen to this.
This is definitely going to be probably one of the more
controversial topics that we brought up on the show.
Well, I mean, we've been having a good string of them.
Like last week we we had a womanon who brought up some really

(58:51):
dark stuff, right? Very good.
It was very good story, but it was really dark, Very, very
dark. And I had to deal with a lot of
the underground dark side of celebrity life.
Yeah, it was it was pretty brutal.

(59:11):
And now we've kind of went to the other side of the spectrum,
right? Where now instead of where we
went from the entertainment business down to spirituality
and we went from the occult and the entertainment side to

(59:33):
spirituality and extraterrestrials.
And it's flipping them on their heads here there.
There's going to be some resistance, right?
But like Jeff was saying, you know, we, we have this podcast
where we talk about French topics and we're going spectrum

(59:55):
assassin. He said, Hey, I said spectrum.
I did that for you bud. People are going to get upset.
It's OK. Right, Wait till next week.
Next week you're going to get even more upset, dude, when we
get into Astro theology, that's going to piss you guys off, so

(01:00:15):
sit tight. Yeah, we got, we got, we got, we
got another good one next week. It's been great.
But we, it's normal, Paul, just roll them in.
I mean, a lot of times controversy brings people,

(01:00:38):
right? People want want to be around
the controversy. If you have an interesting topic
to talk about, talk about it. And this is an interesting
topic. It's going to piss people off.
It's OK, Right? Yeah.
I can tell you that the greatestpushback that I get on both
books, well, the first one more are from atheists because they,

(01:01:05):
they don't accept the spiritual part of our, our, our existence.
They, they don't want to hear about it.
If you don't have proof, and there's no way that I could
offer proof about what I had in meditation or my experiences,
they won't listen to you. So I get more support from

(01:01:27):
people that have a religion because we align as far as
understanding that there is something beyond what we can see
and there's something beyond that guides us and that there
are greater roles to play than than just our, our life, you

(01:01:52):
know, our our work habits or, you know, whatever, you know, we
have that that keeps us going asfar as just you don't have any a
source of income. There's as much more than that.
You know, I don't want to like push this along or something,
anything like that. But I am also interested in kind

(01:02:14):
of getting into because at the very beginning you talked about
the plot of the book, there being something about they were
using the facilities in Dulce tolike harvest our DNA to try to
find this, this love gene or whatever, right?
And unable to do it right. Could you maybe you get into
that a little bit and how that kind of ties into the shroud and

(01:02:35):
stuff, Just in case anybody missed the very beginning?
So in the first book, Mary Ellengoes to Dulce because she won't.
She recognizes that her son is one of the abductees and he's
in, in one of the tubes. So she comes up with with a, a
plot to to get people to go overthere.

(01:03:00):
She finds Katrina, who has psychokinetic powers.
She gets Robert Ladd, who is a, you know, a Ranger and they are
able to, to, to rescue not only her son, but her and 20 other,

(01:03:25):
you know, victims that were in those tubes in, in the
laboratory. And with her help from the
Arcturians, who she has a, a connection with, they
essentially beam up all of the individuals back to, you know,
the planet to repair their DNA because they've been, you know,

(01:03:50):
they've been trying to convert them into super soldiers or, you
know, doing things that are inhuman.
So one, as I mentioned, one of her, one of those specimens was
her son. And in the second book we we
find out that they contact her and he's ready to be returned

(01:04:13):
because they repaired his DNA. So he has memory.
He has memory, but it's in his subconsciousness.
He has memory about being in thetube and seeing and also hearing

(01:04:37):
and feeling the intent of his captors.
And with those clues, they figure out what was going on in
that laboratory. And at the same time, Mary
Allen, who is the mother and she's a spiritual psychic.

(01:04:59):
She is, she's watching TV and she sees something about the,
the release of the Shroud of Turin in because it's, it's
about it. It's near Mardi Gras.
So the news is talking about that, you know, the Vatican is
going to release the Shroud of Turin for people to see in

(01:05:20):
public. And it's be a great event.
So she goes into meditation, andshe's allowed to see the shroud
in her meditation. And then she focuses and she
sees the blood, and then it getscloser and magnified, and she
sees the chromosomes and then finally the DNA.

(01:05:44):
And then she was brought back and she doesn't know why she's
allowed to see that. So that's part of the puzzle of
the plot. And you combine that with her
taking her son and going to regressive therapy and learning
about what happened while he wasin captivity.

(01:06:05):
And he tells them that his captors were frustrated not
finding what they were looking for and just giving up on the
test. And that gets us closer to
understanding what the why the shroud is coveted and why blue

(01:06:30):
blue is the the sun, Why blue has this this role to play in in
the plot. So that's how I tie in the the
first one with the second one. It's pretty interesting stuff,
man. It's yeah, you they like, like
you said, they're, they're 2 completely different books.

(01:06:52):
But I could see, I could see where the connection's at, man.
Oh. Yes.
Yeah, No, it's it is very interesting.
I have the first one. I haven't read it yet.
I know I told you I was going to.
I haven't had a chance to get through it yet.
A lot of a lot of things came up, but I do have it.

(01:07:15):
I'm going to get the second one too, don't worry.
But I, I had somebody on TikTok that just recommended a book and
I went, I just went and bought that one too.
It's called God, man, the word made flesh.
And actually, Jeff, this looks like it.

(01:07:36):
It might fit really well into next week's topic with Micah
Dink. What is it called?
Word made flesh. Word made flesh, yeah.
Our God Man, The Word Made Fleshby George W Carey it it it looks
like it looks like it has an astrology wheel on the cover.

(01:08:00):
Oh yeah, that'll fit next week for sure.
Yeah, yeah. The the guy that we have next
week, Paul has is what what whatis he like an Astro theologist?
He's like one of the biggest Astro theologists.
So his whole thing is that he basically, he's, let's just use

(01:08:21):
the word decoded, not just the Bible, but the Quran and the
Torah and all these, these religious texts.
And he's like found correlationswith astrology, if you will,
right? And not like the astrology where
you just go and like, what's my daily horoscope, but like real,
like ancient astrology. And you know, he, he brings up a

(01:08:44):
lot of connections where like, Imean, just like a simple example
would be, you know that he rose after three days, right?
Well, like, then he'll bring up the situation, well, hey, look
at winter solstice. The sun hits the lowest point
and it stays at the lowest pointin the sky for three days until
it starts rising again higher into the sky.
So it's just one very basic example, but he goes really deep

(01:09:06):
into like the names of things and, you know, all of the kind
of like cryptic messages that are in theology and how that
ties to theism. Yeah.
OK, Micah's. Micah's a good a good.
But it's going to piss off a lotof religious folks because, you

(01:09:28):
know, he, he, he's pretty hardcore about it too.
He'll, he'll go on a whole long thing that's like mind blowing.
And then he'll look at the camera and be like, do you still
believe your book? Like he could?
He's kind of abrasive about it. But you know, what are you
going? To do he's a, he's a person.
To to stay curious, to think. Think outside the box To to

(01:09:52):
ponder beyond what what they've been indoctrinated in.
That's all. Yeah, no, I'm with that 100%,
you know, and I'm not one to like shit on anybody's religion
or anything like that. You know, I'm not necessarily a
religious person, but you know, and I and I respect people's
beliefs, but I'm the same as you, right?

(01:10:14):
Like I want people to kind of think outside the box a little
bit and consider the possibilitythat, hey, that that book,
whatever book you follow might not have all the information,
right? Like there's there's things that
have either been tampered with or left out or just
misunderstood over time, mistranslated over time.
Like things might not be quite what you think they are based

(01:10:36):
off of those books, you know, so.
Correct. I've heard I've been here just
since we're on the topic, man, there's been a lot of stuff that
I've been hearing lately about like the Book of Enoch, you
know, it, it makes me wish I knew more about it, but I've
been hearing a ton of stuff about it that's made me really

(01:10:58):
want to dive into it. Fucking buy it and read it, Mr.
Bookman. Yeah, but I don't I, I, I, I
don't know anything else like. There's also a book of.
Enoch or anything man. There's also a, a book that was
redacted that I, I was made noteof and that's the book of

(01:11:19):
Thomas. And apparently that is about
Thomas's conversation with Jesusafter resurrection and certain
things that Jesus told him that are not in aligned with
conventional religion, which is that there is no heaven, there
is no God, and that we are more spiritual than we realize,

(01:11:45):
things like that. But it was it was tossed out for
a number of reasons. One had to do with the quality
of the the words that the other is that it was written 100 years
after the supposed conversation.So that doesn't sit well with

(01:12:08):
people. But you know, the books of Luke,
not Luke, John and Mark were written like 88 years after
Jesus was crucified. So there's, we'll never, I think
know the, the, the, the truth, the, the actual accuracy of, of

(01:12:34):
what happened. I think it's all based on
whoever has control over those words.
Yeah, for sure. I mean, you know, look, we all
know this, right? I mean, listen, the events
happened so long ago and since then, there's been so many kings
and Queens and popes and rulers and a lot of information,

(01:12:57):
whether you're talking about theBible or not.
Just information in general, especially in those times, was
most definitely manipulated to control people or route people
up and get them to go and fight,right?
And like all these types of things, so is it possible that
religious texts were also tampered with in the same way at

(01:13:19):
the same time? I don't see why not, right?
I'm not going to sit here and say yes, they were, but like
you'd be hard pressed to convince me that they weren't,
right? So.
Agree. Yeah, I don't.
Yeah, I, I wish I had some again.
This is just coming from things I heard right.

(01:13:39):
But like the King, King James, didn't you write his version
because he wanted to remarry or something and he had to alter
something in in the in the text to say that it was OK?
Sure. Who knows, right?
Who knows? Yeah, that's the whole thing,
right? Like none of us were in the

(01:14:00):
rooms back then. None of us were in the secret
rooms where they were trying to figure out like, hey, how are we
going to print this? You know, because you know, all
these books, you know, and again, I'm not talking about
just the Bible, right? Like any religious text or any
text period back in those days before the printing press came
out, you know, who knows what they were kind of like
propagating as far as like to the people.

(01:14:21):
And then when the printing pressdid come out, there was some
serious conversations and some back rooms that are like, what
do we print and how do we print them to distribute them it?
Would be pretty interesting to it it.
It would be extremely interesting, like if somebody
were to get a hold of a real time machine, right and go back

(01:14:45):
and grab one artifact to grab the one of the original Bibles
and compare it to what we have now.
Well, people looked all over theworld for all that stuff, man.
I mean, like people don't like to hear this, but like, dude,
what do you think the Nazis weredoing?
They were all over the world looking for shit.
They were, they were going to ancient sites, they were going

(01:15:06):
to Tibet. They were going to all these
places and they were looking forstuff.
And they probably found some stuff too, because those guys
were assholes, man. They, you know what I'm saying?
So you know, who knows what's ina vault somewhere?
We don't know. We have no idea.
Well, you've heard you heard about the the Vitas, right?
The the the Hindu Vitas. They.

(01:15:27):
Started out as as just stories that people pass down verbally
without writing down. And this was for for
generations. And then finally someone
decided, hey, we need to write this stuff down.
So think about think about the the difference between what is

(01:15:50):
in the writing and what was the original story.
You know that's. I mean, you're playing telephone
at that point. I was going to say it's the
telephone game, right? You can't even go like they,
they've done experiments on this.
You can't go around a circle of 20 people and keep the story
straight. So how are you going to go
through a story of, of, you know, 20 generations and keep
the story like perfect? Now they, they probably did a

(01:16:11):
really good job because they diduse, and Michael will talk about
this next week. They did use like the stars and
things like that to like keep these stories pretty dialed in.
But yeah, I mean, and listen, there's cultures around the
world right now that they still don't write down their their
religious texts because they think that it's like an
abomination of some kind, right?Like you cannot write these

(01:16:32):
things down because once you write them down, like, it
changes the essence of what The thing is.
So, you know, how much of that happened, right?
How? How accurate is that?
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
It is interesting, Yeah. All right, Paul, what else you
got for us, man? We're we're about an hour and 20

(01:16:55):
minutes in now. All right, so if you're looking
for quality of writing, I got itfor you because the first book
has a 4.73 rating on Goodreads. That's pretty high.
Very good with with over 48 reviews.

(01:17:15):
And yeah, I just keep I keep getting five stars from people
that that read it, but I feel the second one's even better.
And the second one is not as youknow, it doesn't have as much of
the the UFO and meditation stuffas the first one still does.

(01:17:39):
But oh, I see a question there. What this Paul think the oldest
Bible is wow. You know, there is a museum in
DC. It's called the Museum of the
Bible. And I was there and, and it you
have to be there for a long, long time.

(01:18:00):
There's just an an entire floor where they explain the origins
of of the Bible and they have the versions there.
You know, Jeff, you were mentioning, you know, King James
and, and all of the, the versions, they have all the
versions there and they explain the edits that were done in
those versions. If you have the time and you

(01:18:21):
have the, the attention span to to look at that.
It's, it's all there. It's, it doesn't matter what I
think about what is, was the oldest it the proof is, is
there. I, I, I will say though, that I
think the, the Old Testament, which is shared by the Jews and

(01:18:46):
the Muslims is, is interesting because I think there's, if you
read a lot of the Old Testament as a historic book, you will
find a lot of interesting piecesto a puzzle that explains a lot
about what they interpreted as God and they interpreted as

(01:19:10):
angels and things like that. Where I I think that there's a
lot of high technology there that that is being
misinterpreted by unsophisticated shepherds.
Yeah, I just kind of googled it,right.
For what that whatever that's worth.
The Codex, the Codex Sin Sinaiticus is considered one of

(01:19:31):
the oldest complete Bibles in the world. 4th century Greek
manuscript. Then you have like fragments of
the Dead Sea Scrolls. I know that like there's
Ethiopian versions of the Bible that go way, way back to right.
So, you know, it's always been my understanding and I might be
way off on this, I don't know. But it's always been my
understanding that like the individual books of the Bible,

(01:19:53):
if you went way back, you know, certain tribes or certain
families, whatever, like those were the books that they
followed until somebody, right, some church and state.
Conglomerate came together and brought those separate pieces
together and created this one Bible, right but you go back far
enough it was like hey this tribe followed you know the the

(01:20:15):
book of John right like this tribe followed this right and
there were some people who followed multiple but it wasn't
like one big thing until institutions came and we're like
hey let's put this together and.Yeah, yeah, I find it
interesting. I'm reading a book right now by

(01:20:35):
Phil Kinsella. He's a UFO researcher, author in
UK and his book I think it Avatar.
I forget what the title is, but it's like a Reader's Digest for
people who don't know or haven'tlooked up things about, for

(01:20:58):
instance, Zacharias Ditchin or the Anunnaki or the Nephilim or
Nibiru. It it's really a a great
compilation and explains thoroughly about that mythology.
Yeah, that's a whole rabbit holein itself and I love that stuff,
dude. Zacharias Hitchens Sumerian

(01:21:21):
tablet decoding is is. Dude, there was like 5 years of
my life where I was like obsessed with the Anunnaki and
and all that stuff. Dude, that shit, that shit's
crazy. Yeah.
So what's the name of your your new book?
The new book, The Disclosure Paradox, book 2, Salvation.

(01:21:42):
There's salvation on a lot of levels there.
I, you know, I also write about social voice, you know, like the
first one, you know, I have a Kerr Apache woman, have a, a gay
black veteran female Sergeant who was in the, the military

(01:22:06):
police. I have a autistic woman.
And so I, you know, I, I make sure that I, I'm diverse in that
first book, the second book, I touch upon the issue of the, the
children being abused in, in theCatholic Church because the main

(01:22:31):
character, well, not the main character, the antagonist who
teams up with the reptilians to get the shroud.
His it's a revenge against the church because it, of what
happened to him when he was an acolyte.

(01:22:52):
So he turns out to to be the Chief of Interpol.
Vatican. Did you know that the Vatican
has their own Interpol? Yeah, I did know that.
Yeah, so he's the one that is the insider that that gets
involved with the Reptilians to steal the shroud.

(01:23:15):
And it's because of what happened to him as a as a child
that he does it. So I kind of explain that part
and how it it impacted him. That's pretty interesting.
Yeah. I mean, listen, man, I we could

(01:23:37):
probably talk for hours, honestly, about all this stuff
and like, go down all these different rabbit holes on some
of this stuff, you know? I know, I know.
Like the books themselves are like you said that, you know,
it's like science fiction, right?
But the the concepts and stuff that are in there like I think
are true at least to some extentfrom from what I know, right?

(01:23:58):
Like again, I don't know everything about the shroud or
what have you, but you know all the things that you touch on or
at least have in this episode, like I'm tracking, right?
I could get in there with you and we could definitely have a
long conversation about all thatstuff for sure.
Unfortunately, there's not enough time and one night to
like, you know, like go down each rabbit hole, but.

(01:24:21):
Yeah. That's what he does, man.
He did that in February too. He he gave us this mosh pit of
topics and I think we got through two or three of them.
When we look back, it was 2 hours into the episode.
We're like crap, man. We got to go.
That's how you know it's a good episode.
And right before you said it waslike an hour and 20 minutes.
Like I looked up and it was likean hour and 16 minutes and I was

(01:24:42):
like, damn, dude. Like that's how I know it's a
good episode when an hour plus goes by and like, you have no
idea. Yeah.
Sometimes Jeremy will make me sit here and listen to Bigfoot
stuff for two hours and I'm like, so?
We. Haven't done.
We haven't. Done a Bigfoot episode in a
while. So you could tell your audience
that I have a website it it's the disclosure paradox.com in

(01:25:06):
there, they could actually read about, read about both books.
There are excerpts for the firstbook.
There are reviews that I have right now in there there in the
character descriptions. But for the second book I have
Joseph Marino's forward and I have a couple reviews that are

(01:25:27):
pre publication reviews in there.
And I'll be adding some more stuff in there as I as we go
along. And in in this second one, it
could be pre-ordered so that it arrives when it it's released,
which is the 16th of September. And it's doing pretty well right

(01:25:51):
now in pre-orders. I'm pretty, pretty happy about
it. So it's good.
Well, it's always, always good to have you on man.
So when you come up with the thenext one and and Bigfoot joins
the mix and you got a whole bunch of other things that we
can force Jeff into that he's not interested in, but I am

(01:26:12):
Let's let's do that so that he can sit there and and look all
bored. And then I.
Can yeah. The next one will be about the
the origins of Katrina who is psychokinetic and her father who
was one of the the army privatesthat was recovering the debrief

(01:26:35):
from the Roswell crash. OK.
Yeah. Hey, that's a, that's a pretty
good one, man. There's a lot to go on with with
the Roswell crash. A lot, a lot.
We could, we could dive into that quite a bit too.
We could dive into that. We could dive into the nuclear
testing that was happening or the atom bomb testing that was
happening at the time. See, he said the origins of

(01:26:58):
Katrina. And right there I was like, oh,
the hurricane. And I was like, that's where I.
Went to, that's where I went to.That's.
Where I went. To weather modification of the.
Go. Yeah, but the But then we talked
about. Ron was one of the characters.
Way before that. Yeah, no, I got that when you
finished the sentence. But I jumped the gun in my mind.
I was like, oh, origins of Katrina, we're going to talk

(01:27:19):
about chemtrails and weather modification.
But no, no, absolutely. Well, Paul, you, you put out
your website. Do you have anything else to put
out? Do you have socials or anything
else that you want to plug before we shut her off for the
night? Yeah, I've, I've nothing else

(01:27:40):
going on. I'll be, I'll be, you know,
doing local book signings. Hopefully if the second book
comes out, you know, strong, I'll certainly be around the
country all. Right.
Well, I want to give a special shout out to the the stupendous

(01:28:01):
man over on TikTok sat there andgave us 5000 likes.
Oh wow. That's great.
Yeah, really appreciate that. We got, we got a couple people
to share. I mean all kinds of.

(01:28:28):
Tik Tok's jumping bro you got toget that damn stream key so they
can see the whole episode, not just look.
At Eodle, I, I don't, I don't know how to do the stream key
thing. I'll figure it out, I'll figure
it out. I'll figure it out, I'll figure
it out. All right, we got, we got a
couple followers today #1 Meg Megumi Glazer followed us.
We hit 70 followers on on Twitchtonight.

(01:28:51):
Wow. So that's cool.
We got that. That's that's another milestone.
So thank you all for that. A lot of cool milestones today,
everybody. Yeah, I'm on, I'm on on Blue Sky
as PGV author. And then I'm on, you know,

(01:29:14):
Facebook. I, I Pete Paul the cat writer so
and I've got like 4000, four 4200 followers on blue sky,
which is pretty good. Nice, man.
Nice. Yeah, well, make sure you share
the episode when it comes out, man.
Yeah, I will. So.

(01:29:35):
Looks like hey, it looks like Danny just just joined the chat.
Danny. Danny, better late than never,
Dan. Danny's always a good guy, Danny
Danny loves our authors. Danny will probably check out
your stuff. He's a he's a true, true

(01:29:57):
listener, true, true fan of books.
But we are now at an hour and 35minutes in.
We've been streaming all over the Internet, everywhere.
Thank you to everybody that that's taking the time to tune
in. Thank you to everybody on
TikTok. Thank you to everybody on
Twitch. Thank you to everybody on
YouTube X everywhere else that we've been streaming.

(01:30:20):
This is this has been a we didn't get a ton of people on
Twitch today, but we had a ton of people everywhere else.
Let me tell you. And Paul, thank you again.
It's always a pleasure, man. We look forward to having you
back on for Oh yeah, I think. It doesn't kill her.

(01:30:43):
I'll have to get post the links for his stuff in the chat.
Oh, let me let me do that real quick.
OK, and Paul, maybe, maybe you can come on like after the book
comes out, like excuse me, like a couple weeks or something
after the book comes out, we canget a little more in depth.
I don't want you to like spoil the book on the show before it
comes out, right? But like maybe once it comes out

(01:31:04):
and it's been out for a little while, you come back on and we
can go a little bit further downthis one before talking about
the next one that you got comingout too that.
'D be cool, yeah. Oh yeah, that's there's the
pre-order on Amazon right now. I got the you can see it it's on
the pre-order. Here's I'll put this here.

(01:31:27):
Here is if you're on Twitch, there is the link to the first
book. Shout out to whoever just
boosted the twitch channel too. I see that.
Boosted Twitch channel. Yeah, there's like a little
boost thing that people can do, and they did it.

(01:31:49):
I appreciate that whoever did that.
And then here is the link to thethe second book that you can
pre-order. Right.
All right. There you go.
That'll get you a couple sales. For sure, and I will like I did
the first time. I will post the links with the

(01:32:13):
episodes once they come out, which I believe this one will
come out on the 8th. I'm pretty sure will come out on
the 8th. But all right, that's it.
This one's for real now. Now I got all your links out
Paul, if you can hang tight for just a few minutes after I I
sign off that way I can have Riverside pull all your audio

(01:32:35):
and video and then we'll we'll cut you loose.
All right, man. Sure.
All right, until next time travellers, remember next Sunday
every Sunday at 8:00 PM Central Time.
That's 9 Eastern and 6:00 PM Pacific.
You could be right on twitch.tv/infinite Rabbit Hole

(01:32:56):
where you can see myself, Michaels, Jeff, and our guest
for the night if we have one, which next week we will have
Micah Dank talking about his studies in Astro theology.
It's quite a long presentation, but we're here for it and it's
going to be a blast. I've heard good things about

(01:33:18):
this. Jeff's already kind of got a
peek underneath the curtains. He's seen this once before, if
not 5-7 times before, and he says good things about it, so
I'm looking forward to it. Until next time, travelers,
we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the
infinite rabbit hole. Bye everybody.

(01:33:41):
Peace. Hey everybody, thanks for
checking out the Infinite RabbitHole podcast.
If you're looking for more of our stuff, head on over to
infiniterabbithole.com where youcan find links to all the
podcast players that we are available on and even our video
platforms such as TikTok and YouTube.

(01:34:02):
While you're there, make sure tocheck out all the links for our
socials and hit that follow so you know when all the new stuff
from our podcast comes out. And until next time, travelers,
we'll see you right here in the next fork in the path of the
Infinite Rabbit hole. Bye.