172 | Miracle Molecules: Xylitol - From Nasal Health to Legal Battles, Unraveling Its Systemic Benefits with Nate Jones - Inflammation Nation: Science Informed Wellness

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey everyone, welcome to the Inflammation Nation
podcast.
I'm your host, dr SteveNoseworthy.
The views and opinionsexpressed by my guests in this
podcast are not necessarilyconsistent with my own views and
opinions.
However, I do my best to berespectful of their views and
opinions as they express them,even if they differ from my own.

(00:23):
Now let's get to the podcast.
Hey guys, sometimes I interviewguests who have something of
value to say to both healthcareconsumers and healthcare
practitioners alike.
So this is a joint episode forboth the Inflammation Nation and
the Funk Med Nation podcast andit's going to appear on both
platforms.

(00:43):
Nate Jones, who's my guest today, is the founder and president
of a company called Clear, andthat's spelled X-L-E-A-R, and
they're a US-based company thatsells xylitol-based nasal sprays
, rinses, toothpastes, mints andso on.
And Nate's father, who's aretired old school rural medical

(01:06):
doctor, started crafting hisown xylitol solutions in his
medical practice years ago as away to control and resolve
recurrent ear infections in thekids that were under his care.
And this was so successful thatlater Nate and some friends
founded Clear, clear Inc in 2000, and they brought his father's

(01:28):
novel approach to market as acommercial product in the very
first ever xylitol saline nasalspray.
Today, Clear Inc remains aleader in xylitol-based nasal
and oral hygiene products, withproducts on shelves of major
retailers like CVS, walgreensand Sprouts.
Their products are also sold onAmazon.

(01:50):
In fact, I believe they're thenumber one nasal spray sold on
Amazon, as well as on their ownwebsite, which is clearcom, and
again, that's X-L-E-A-R.
Now, nate and his team havegraciously agreed to offer you,
my listeners, a 20% discount onany of their products sold on
their website.
Again, that website is clearcom, xlearcom, and the coupon code

(02:15):
is DRN, for Dr N, drn20.
Now, this is good for threemonths from when we published
the episode, which should bringus roughly through towards the
end of January 2025.
So act on that.
Now.
That's clearcom with an X andthe coupon code is DRN20.
And I'll pop that into theepisode description.

(02:38):
So I have I actually have twopodcasts, nate, and, depending
on the tone of the conversation,uh, I might post this on both.
The first podcast, uh, iscalled inflammation nation.
It's for the public.
I've been doing that forseveral years now, um, and
that's just lay people, althoughI do have a lot of
practitioners that follow me onthat one.

(02:59):
But last year I started onethat's exclusively for
practitioners, called funk mednation and that's where I talked
to researchers and PhDs andpeople who run labs and
companies like you, just to havemore of a clinical conversation
.
So I think that, um, ideallywe'd have a little bit of both.
Like I, I've seen some of theinterviews that you've done and

(03:20):
it seems like you know enough ofthe science behind some of the
stuff that we could have, let'ssay, a scientific rather than a
clinical discussion.
But I would like to start morewith the things that are
applicable to the general public.
And you know, talk aboutXylitol, its history, your
history, your dad, the companyI'm sure you've talked about

(03:42):
that so many different times,but then I'd like to talk about
you know, some of I'm sureyou've talked about that so many
different times, but then I'dlike to talk about you know,
some of the research that's beendone.
I know there are many, manydifferent papers.
So, again, I don't haveanything specific.
I've got just a rough outlinejust to keep myself on point and
on task, but I'd like theconversation to go anywhere it
needs to go.
So I'm going to throw thequestion back to you Is there

(04:04):
anything that you want to makesure that we cover, just from
your perspective?

Speaker 2 (04:12):
From my perspective.
You know I don't want to be toopessimistic, but I want to make
sure that everybody knows thatthey should never trust their
public health agencies forpublic for health.
But I think you're probablyagreeing with that oh, we can
talk about that yeah absolutely.
um, yeah, I mean the more, themore I so long.

(04:34):
So I mean I probably shouldjust tell you this when we're we
are recording um, you know,I've never had an issue with
government agencies until theysued me.
And that's absolutely absurd,because I've been in business
for 21 years and never had anissue with the government.
And for the government to comeand sue me because I was sharing

(04:57):
data, published researchstudies and sharing guidance
that was actually on the CDC'swebpage Absolutely kills me.
And you know I there's a lot ofpeople in this country that
that despise our government.
I was not one of them until thegovernment sued me, but now I

(05:23):
can.

Speaker 1 (05:23):
What are they suing you Like?
What, specifically?
And let's just consider, we'rerolling now, the episode is
going.
So why don't we start with thisbig picture stuff?
Because this is unfortunately,it's a sign of the times, not
that it's a recent development,right, because the governmental
agencies have been messingaround with you know what we're

(05:45):
allowed to say, what we'reallowed to record, what we're
allowed to prescribe.
From a natural perspective, wehave a very well-established
history in natural medicine ofcompounds that we natural
compounds that we've used fordecades, all of a sudden being
reclassified as medications, andthe only people who can
prescribe them are, you know,licensed medical doctors with a

(06:07):
DEA number.
So let's back up just a littlebit.
And, and let me ask you pointblank, what did they sue you for
?
What was the issue?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Well, they're claiming what they sued us for
is that we were making false andmisleading statements about
nasal sprays and their effect onCOVID, and there's plenty of
data and, in fact, the bestexample of this is even prior.

(06:39):
So coronaviruses are not new.
I mean, we've had coronavirustreat.
A respiratory coronavirusinfection was using salt water

(07:09):
to physically you know salineirrigations putting salt water
up your nose, whether you'reusing a neti pot, an irrigation
bottle or a saline spray,because what you're doing is
physically reducing the viralload in your nose.
Okay, so this was the CDC'sguidance on how to treat a
respiratory coronavirusinfection.

(07:29):
Okay, in 2020.
And when COVID came, one of thevery first things, one of the
very first studies that came out, was a study that was done,
funded by the NIH.
It was done at VanderbiltUniversity and they took 60
people over the age of 65.
All of them had COVID, all ofthem tested positive and they
gave them salt water and inunder a week, 100% of them were

(07:51):
better.
The companies in the industrystarted sharing that data and
the FTC the Federal TradeCommission sent warning letters
to us not to share it.
Tell me how that makes sense?
And Neil Med and Navaj backedout and said, okay, we won't

(08:13):
share that data.
And I said no you have peoplethat need this data and we're
going to continue to share it.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
It's our right, it's public, it's in the public
domain.
Yeah, and not only that, it was, you know, published, I would
imagine, in peer reviewedliterature, which, you know,
according to all these agencies,would be the gold standard.
Right, everyone's looking forpeer reviewed literature,
randomized, double blind,placebo, controlled studies,
right, correct.
But even when, when things likethat don't agree with the tone

(08:51):
of the environment, then theyget discounted or labeled as
things like misinformation,right?

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Correct, but it worked exactly as what you would
have thought.
What hundreds and thousands ofyears of of history have taught
us is that washing the upperairway um for a respiratory
pathogen that enters in ourupper airway was effective, and
we knew shortly after that thateven you could put a wide

(09:21):
variety of products into that umnasal nasal irrigation product.
That made it more effective.
We have been utilizing xylitol,which, if people aren't familiar
with xylitol, it's a naturalsugar, it's a five carbon sugar,
and we've known since the 90sthe 1990s that xylitol blocks

(09:45):
the ability of bacteria toadhere to tissue and if you can
block a pathogen from adheringto your tissue, obviously you
use that.
You're not going to get sick asoften because you're blocking
the pathogen's ability to enterthe tissue, the system, and
that's what the whole premise ofour company, clear, was based

(10:09):
on, and my dad was a physicianand he had actually he started
using it in 1998 because he hadread dental studies where kids
chewed gum with xylitol and theygot 40% fewer respiratory
infections.
So, um, but anyway, that'swhere it started and and we knew

(10:31):
in early 2021 that utilizing anasal spray with xylitol or
using a nasal spray with iota,carrageenan um on a daily basis.
Reduced transmission of COVIDby anywhere from 70 to 80
percent.

Speaker 1 (10:50):
And are these published, like your own studies
or other groups?

Speaker 2 (10:55):
No, so these are actually other studies.
But in early 2020, there was astudy that came out of
University of Tennessee wherethey showed that xylitol and
iota carrageenan blocked theability of the SARS-CoV-2 virus
to adhere to tissue.
We, in June of 2020, went tothe FDA and said, hey, we would
like to do a study.

(11:15):
We had a doctor, apulmonologist, that was treating
COVID patients in Miami who waswilling to do the study.
He was already using it in hispractice.
So he goes yeah, I'll do thestudy.
We weren't asking for money.
We were asking, yes, can we godo a study with COVID patients?
And the FDA wouldn't allow usto do it because our product is
not a drug and they would notallow a cosmetic to.

(11:37):
They wouldn't allow anon-pharmaceutical product to do
a drug action study on whateverclass pathogen they considered
COVID to be, and so we didn't doone.
But they did one in Argentinausing the iota carrageenan,
because there's a company inArgentina that sells an iota
carrageenan nasal spray.

(11:57):
They did the study there.
They had a 79.8% reduction intransmission of COVID in
hospital workers.
A company in the UK went andmade a nasal spray with xylitol
very similar to ours, and theywent and tested it in India and

(12:17):
they used it three times a dayand they used half as much
xylitol as we did, but it stillreduced transmission by 62%,
above and beyond what the salinedid, which we know.
Saline already reduces it by 15to 20%.

Speaker 1 (12:32):
And was that the only impact was the reduced
transmission or did it changethe viral efficacy, like did it
reduce symptoms or reduce thelength of illness or
complication?

Speaker 2 (12:46):
Well, if it prevented , I don't know.
Well, what I do know, I'd haveto go back and look at that.
But what I do know is that inall of the studies that I've
seen where they used any nasallyapplied product, there were
zero hospitalizations and zeropeople dying.
I mean, covid is not a hardpathogen to kill.

(13:09):
It's that our public healthagencies told us to do.
The one thing that made it bad,which was don't do anything at
all.
Sit at home until you getreally sick and then go see a
doctor and then go see someone.

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Yeah, but I've had this discussion with quite a
doctor and then go see someone?

Speaker 2 (13:24):
Yeah, but I've had.
I've had this discussion withwith quite a number of
physicians that were treatingCOVID and when you really think
about it, covid is the SARS.
Covid two virus is not a strongvirus.
The rhinovirus is a muchstronger virus because you can
use practically anything.
I mean, they've done studieswith baby shampoo, with iodine,

(13:44):
with nitric oxide, with xylitol,with iota, carrageen, every
single one of these even.
Even they did one at theCleveland Clinic with what's in
fluticasone.
They did one with fluticasone,and all of these had a good
effect of getting rid of COVID.
They did one with azolastin hada good effect of getting rid of

(14:07):
COVID.
They did one with azelastinwhich is just an antihistamine.

Speaker 1 (14:12):
Yeah, and you know my experience in my practice, I
certainly, I've certainly workedwith people who either acquired
a coronavirus infection or hadit when they just happened to
reach out to me.
But I don't put myself out thereas someone who you know treats
COVID or coronavirus, or reachout to me but I don't put myself
out there as someone who youknow treats COVID or coronavirus
or any of those things.
But you know, in many cases, orin many ways, a virus is a

(14:33):
virus is a virus and there are,you know, almost like repeatable
and reproducible ways to eitherinhibit viral replication or to
decrease the absorption or theI should say the adsorption and
the adherence, which I know thatthese are at least some of the
mechanisms of xylitol.
Um, I, you know, I can tellthat this is like a, it's a

(14:56):
passion point for you.
So let me ask you this questionand we can come back to this
topic, cause I think that it'sprobably something a lot of
people want to hear more about.
But what is the status of thiscourt case now?
Are you guys in legal battlesright now?

Speaker 2 (15:12):
Or is this?
Oh yeah, no, we're in a courtcase.
They just finished thedepositions, the fact discovery
last two weeks ago, september.
The end of September was theend of fact discovery and you
know it's going forward.
I mean, the stuff that we'velearned, um, just it just shows

(15:33):
such incompetence on the levelof the people in our government
that we're managing this thatit's I mean, it's a criminal
negligence.
Is is really what it was, the.
What we learned is that the,the lawyers at the FTC, when
they saw that we were trying toshare these studies, they sent
us a warning letter without everhaving read the studies.

(15:56):
They acknowledged and they toldus that they did it because it
wasn't in the news and if itwasn't true and if it was true,
it would have had to have beenin the news.
That's what they said.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
So basically, what they're saying or suggesting is
that the litmus test of accurateinformation is whether or not
mainstream media is covering it.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
That's exactly what they said.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
And you know, for the average North American that's,
that concept is not going to fly.

Speaker 2 (16:29):
Well, one of the other things that we learned.
You would think that whensomeone finally did open and
read a study that they wouldhave said, well, you know, it's
on the CDC's webpage, maybe weshould let them have a go, you
know, maybe we should let them,you know, let it slide.
But the government doesn't knowhow to admit that they're wrong

(16:50):
.
And I'll give you a goodexample.
When we were doing thedepositions, we talked to one of
the lawyers at the FTC.
We said how long have you beenat the FTC?
21 years In 21 years.
How many times has thegovernment, 21 years In 21 years
, how many times has thegovernment, as your agency, sent
a warning letter to a companyor an entity and that company or
entity responds with data andyou guys said oh yeah, you're

(17:15):
right, we're wrong, and you takeback that warning letter and
you publicly rescind thatwarning letter.
How many times do you thinkthat has happened?

Speaker 1 (17:26):
I would imagine zero.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Zero.
So our government agencies areso crap that they are batting a
thousand for 21 years, orthey're just corrupt.
That's the only way to look atit.

Speaker 1 (17:45):
Yeah, so is the end in sight.
And only way to look at yeah,yeah, so is there is the end in
sight.
And ultimately, what's at stake, like if they come back and say
, no, we're right and you'rewrong, are they going to?
Well, what are they threateningto do?
Is it just heavy fines?
Is it regulation on sales?
Is it distribution?

Speaker 2 (18:02):
Is it?
They haven't come back with anyof that.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
So they haven't.
So they're just saying you knowwe don't like what you're
saying, but ultimately theconsequence if you lose that
battle is yet to be determined.

Speaker 2 (18:17):
Correct.
But let me explain a little bitmore why our court case
actually really matters topretty much everybody in America
Not everybody, but 80% of thepeople that take supplements,
okay, or 80, or whateverpercentage of the American
population uses natural productsor herbs or supplements or

(18:42):
anything of that nature, orherbs or supplements or anything
of that nature.
And the reason why it mattersis because the FTC, the Federal
Trade Commission, their job,when they were tasked by
Congress to when they were giventheir charter, was to make sure
that companies and entities didnot make false and misleading
statements about what they wereselling when they had interstate

(19:05):
commerce.
Okay, that's what their charterwas, and it stayed that way
until the 1970s.
And in the 1970s they, they,they came up with what's called
the Pfizer factors, and thePfizer factors were guidelines
that the FTC started using.

(19:25):
So if someone had alreadycommitted a crime, if I had been
accused and they had shown thatI had lied and cheated
customers, then they would beable to utilize these Pfizer
factors to fence me in, and thatholds me to a higher bar than
your average person that hasnever committed a crime.
The courts allowed that onlyfor these people who had

(19:50):
previously committed a crime.
Within a couple of years, theFTC was pretty much putting
those out for everybody and thecourts and Congress didn't rein
them in.
Congress didn't rein them in andpretty soon, in the 1990s, when

(20:11):
the SHEA the Dietary Supplementand Health Education Act came
out, the FTC soon after thatcame out and said hey, you know,
with this new thing, with allthis new health category and
herbs and everything andsupplements, you need to have at
least some studies backing upthe claims you're making.
And that was in 1998.
People went along with it, thegovernment went along with it

(20:33):
and the courts went along withit.
Well, so those were theguidelines that we were working
under for the entire existenceof the company Clear.
We started the company in 2000.
It was after that we understoodthose rules.
We never made company in 2000.
It was after that we understoodthose rules.
We never made a claim thatwasn't substantiated.
When COVID came, the FTC cameand said no, our new rules are

(21:01):
you have to have two RCT studiesfor each and every SKU, each
and every product that you puton the market.
And we said show us where yourrules say that.
And lo and behold, a year and ahalf after they sued us.
Their new rules came out inDecember of 2022, where they
said you have to have two RCTstudies for each and every

(21:23):
product you put on the market.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
And they were applying that retroactively.

Speaker 2 (21:28):
Yes, that's exactly what they did.

Speaker 1 (21:31):
Because there are Remember, like there was
recently, there was a SupremeCourt case.
I want to say with the lastLopers, that's the one where
they.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Chevron deference.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
That's exactly right, the Chevron deference Correct.
Well, can you, for anybodywho's listening, who doesn't
understand the importance ofthat and how it might apply to
you, can you just review thedetails or the outline of that,
just so that they have somecontext?

Speaker 2 (22:00):
So and I was going to go there anyways, because so
the Chevron deference was wasimplemented in 1984.
And in that the Supreme Court,because Congress, had abdicated
their job to actually giveguidance, the courts gave the
ability to the agencies tointerpret the laws as they saw

(22:22):
fit.
Interpret the laws as they sawfit, okay.
That's why the FTC can come outand say well, the rule, the law
that we're upholding is makingfalse and misleading statements.
Now you have to havesubstantiation, now you have to
have two RCTs and and the.
And the stupidity of that isthat you can have two RCTs and

(22:43):
still have fake data.
It happens all the time.
So so false and misleading isnot, you know, does not just
because you have two RCTsdoesn't mean you're making false
and misleading statements.
So when last summer, in it wasthe end of June, the Supreme
court over overturned that, theythrew it out and said no, the

(23:04):
end of June, the Supreme Courtoverturned that they threw it
out and said no, the agenciesdon't have the expertise.
And they argue well, and so Ishould actually go back.
The courts in 1984 said theagencies have the expertise to
interpret those laws as they seefit.
Well, the agencies in ourgovernment have given us COVID,

(23:25):
they've given us AIDS, they'vegiven us everything.
I mean, they've given us thesickest country on the planet.
So the agencies, the governmentagencies, they don't have the
experts.
I mean, the government agenciesdidn't even open the studies
and read them, probably becausethey thought they wouldn't
understand them.
I don't know why they didn't,but they obviously don't have

(23:48):
the expert.
And so I think that overturningthe Chevron deference, I think
that that was the best thing thecourts could have done.
But what that now means, andwhy it means that our case is
important, is because our caseis the first one slated to be
tried in a court without thejudge deferring to the agency to

(24:10):
interpret the law however theysee fit Right.

Speaker 1 (24:13):
So that's a huge advantage for you guys in that
battle.

Speaker 2 (24:17):
Correct and when we started this, when we made a
conscious decision that we weregoing to have the government sue
us, our goal was to actuallytake out part.
We didn't think we'd completelygot it.
We wanted to push back on thatChevron deference.
That was our goal.
Now that's gone.
And now we actually want topush back further, to where the

(24:39):
FTC can't come out and suepeople randomly.
Sue people unless they have acase, unless they have proof
that someone is saying somethingthat's false or misleading.
Because the way that they'redoing it now is they sue you and
you're guilty and you're goingto spend millions of dollars
proving you're innocent.
But it's that you're guiltyuntil you're proven innocent,

(25:02):
but it's that you're guiltyuntil you're proven innocent.

Speaker 1 (25:04):
Yeah, yeah, and that's a travesty of justice,
that's for sure.
How did you get on the radar?
Because you know someone youknow.
I can't imagine that there'ssomeone sitting in an office at
the FTC trolling around theInternet reading your claims.
It's almost like somebody wouldhave to say hey, did you see

(25:26):
what these guys are doing andwhat they're saying about their
products?

Speaker 2 (25:30):
You know what?
We have asked how we got ontheir radar and they have not
told us.
They're supposed to have givenus all of these documents
showing how we got on theirradar, but yet the very first
time there's a mention of clearin any of their internal
documents was the warning letter.

(25:52):
So that warning letter wasdrafted and appeared out of
nowhere and there's no phonerecords, there's no text message
, there's no telegram, there'sno email of these people and
they're all working remote.
Where they were, they werediscussing what this was is
there a name attached to thatletter?
uh, there's three names actually.

(26:13):
There's a, uh, richard richardcleland, who was the head guy
that was supposed to beinvestigating and and was too
lazy to open and read a study.
There's a Michael.
What's his last name, michael?

(26:35):
Something and then there's aSerena.

Speaker 1 (26:38):
Vizwanathan who was their boss, so not necessarily
the people who actuallyinitially raised you guys as a
potential red flag.

Speaker 2 (26:48):
Well, again, that's a good question.
We would like to know theanswer to that.
We would like to know how itcame up on their radar.
But they haven't given us andthey're supposed to have, but
they haven't given us all thatthey said.
It doesn't exist.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
So in the meantime, while all this is going on, are
there any restrictions?
Are you still allowed toproduce and distribute and sell
the clear product?
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:15):
Well, they're not.
They're not, they haven't.
They haven't shown any harm.
They haven't shown a singleincidence of anybody being
harmed.
And if they, if they had theycould, they could go out there
and say, yeah, you got to takeit off the market until it's
proven, but they don't.
They really haven't given us asingle example of a fault or a

(27:37):
misleading statement that we'vemade either either Right or
haven't definitively proven thatthere's no data behind any of
the claims that you make.

Speaker 1 (27:50):
Right Because clearly , like, like xylitol is just a
as a generic ingredient, hasbeen studied, as you mentioned
initially, in the dental field.
Um, and it's.
It's been studied, as youmentioned, not just in the
States but also international.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
Oh, it's been studied , as you mentioned, not just in
the States but alsointernationally.
Oh, it's been studied all overthe world, I mean.
And xylitol, the interestingthing if you want to look at it
historically, if you go backeven a couple of hundred years,
xylitol was more than likely thenumber one sugar that was
consumed by humans.
Today, most of the sugars weeat are six-carbon sugar,

(28:26):
sucrose, glucose, fructose,sorbitol, mannitol, maltitol.
But if you go back 100 years ornot 100, maybe 200, 300 years
before we started refining sugar, where we got it naturally,
when we eat fruit, when we eatvegetables, when we eat any
plant matter, xylose is the mostcommon sugar on the planet and

(28:49):
it was much more part of ourdiet 200 years ago than it is
today.
And there's a doctor out there.
His name's Mark Cannon.
He's a pediatric dentist, buthe does a lot of research.
He's doing research with autism.
He's doing research with cancer.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
But he actually lectures on this and points out
how the agricultural revolutionand it the pharmaceutical
revolution you know,progressively brought us to
where we are today, which isunexpected rates of chronic
disease across all ages.
Like you know, I've beenpracticing long enough that I
can truthfully say that thereare more sick people, who are

(30:00):
more sick across all agebrackets than when I first
started practicing back in theearly to mid 90s.
Right the 100 percent.
Yeah, my practice has changed.
The nature of the conditions,which you know, in one hand
speaks a lot about like thehuman genome, hasn't changed in
that time frame.

(30:20):
What has changed?
Perhaps the environment,certainly our diets, certainly
our lifestyles, um, so why don'twe use this as a, as a, a way
to pivot back to just kind ofthe bigger picture?
You just defined what xylitol is.
It's a sugar molecule, it's anaturally occurring sugar

(30:40):
molecule, um, you know, I, ifyou'll indulge me just for a
second, um just kind of want toset the framework for anybody
who's listening or or if they'rewatching on YouTube.
The core ingredient of yourproducts and you have more than
one product is xylitol.
That original research was indentistry, with, I think it was,
with um, with uh tooth decay,but they noticed that kids that

(31:05):
were using that also got fewerrespiratory infections.
Um.
But as with many things thatare in the natural world,
research and time revealsdifferent applications,
different um different ways touse these products or these
ingredients.
Uh, I mentioned, you know,before the in the official part

(31:26):
of the podcast started, thatI've used your products, the,
particularly the nasal spray, inselect cases for probably the
last 15 years with great success.
Like most of the people withrecurrent um sinus infections Um
, and I also have, I've usedyour products personally, like I
?
Uh, not so much since covid,but I've done a lot of traveling

(31:48):
in my seminar lecture uh, partof my career, in fact.
I'm getting ready to fly fromeastern canada, which is where I
am right now, to california ina few weeks to teach a weekend
seminar on brain chemistry andI'm going to be exposed to a lot
of people in multiple airportsand on the airplanes for three
or five or six hours at a time,and you better believe I'm going

(32:10):
to be using the clear productsto protect my nasal and
respiratory environments.
So so, having said that, you'vedefined what xylitol is, tell
us where you get it from andthen tell us a little bit about
how it's effective in protectingthe nasal and respiratory

(32:34):
environments, and talk as muchscientifically as you want to
about some of the mechanismsthat xylitol has that prevents
infections either from spreadingor from multiplying, dividing.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Okay, can I put a pin in that and come back to it in
just a second?
And the only reason why I'masking this is because you
started talking about the dentalfield.
Yeah, and that is where xylitolgot its start.
And what they were doing islooking at how it was preventing
tooth decay, and what theynoticed was kids that chewed gum
in these studies not the onesthat chewed the sugared or the

(33:13):
sugar free gum, but only theones that chewed the xylitol gum
were getting 42 percent fewerrespiratory infections just by
chewing gum.
Ok, and then there was a studypublished in the journal of
antimicrobial chemotherapy in1998 where they showed that
xylitol blocked the ability ofstrep, pneumo h, flu, mcat those
those pathogens the most commonpathogens in the nose along

(33:34):
with staph.
But it blocked those bacteriafrom adhering to the tissue,
that's.
And.
And so you can make the leapright there and say if it blocks
it froming, you're going to getfewer respiratory infections.

Speaker 1 (33:47):
Right.

Speaker 2 (33:47):
Okay, that's what the data tells you, and but some of
the other stuff that comes infrom that and I don't know if
that hit the news up there inCanada.
How's Canada on waterfluoridation?

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Well, you know, I've lived in the States.
Now I'm up here for the summervisiting my dad, so I live in
practice in the States and havesince the 90s.
But yeah, all the water isfluoridated.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
Okay, so just I want to say, in the last two weeks a
case, a court in California, avery liberal state, actually
passed down a ruling saying thatthe EPA had to go back and
visit the whole concept of waterfluoridation because they had
data that came out and showedthat water fluoridation only

(34:37):
reduces tooth decay.
Okay, do you want to take aguess on what that paper said?
And this was a Cochran review.

Speaker 1 (34:45):
You know who the Cochran review is.
You mean in terms of whatpercent reduction?

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
I'm going to lowball it and say less than 15%.

Speaker 2 (34:54):
Four Four percent and the reason why the court came
out and said the EPA needs to dothat is because four percent
reduction in tooth decay doesn'tcompensate for the drop in the
IQ that we know happens.
It doesn't count for all of theother systemic osteoporosis,

(35:15):
all of the other systemic issuesthat come from putting fluoride
in the water Right, and thestudies from the 1960s and 70s
where they justified puttingfluoride in the water showed a
much higher reduction, like 20to 30.
Okay, so the question is whydid it go from 20 to 30 down to

(35:38):
4%?

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Well, I would imagine , either because data was
falsified or it was a trick ofstatistics.

Speaker 2 (35:48):
I'm not going to argue that the data wasn't
falsified at all, but I'm alsogoing to tell you you already
gave me the answer and it's thechange in our environment.
Because back in the 70s you atethree squares a day, you
weren't snacking all day.
Because back in the 70s you atethree squares a day, you
weren't snacking all day.

(36:09):
Okay, Fluoride does not workunless the pH of your mouth is
above 5.7.

Speaker 1 (36:18):
But if you're eating all day, you keep the pH of your
mouth under that Meaning andtranslate that for those who
might not be scientificallyminded, that means higher
acidity.

Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yes, sorry.
Yes, if you keep your mouthmore basic, fluoride will have
an effect, a higher effect.
But the eating and the way thatwe graze.
Today we're always having asnack.
Kids have their sippy cups.
They're walking around eatingcandy.
I mean my kids.
The teachers at school givethem candy, their teachers at

(36:47):
church give them candy, theircoaches give them candy,
everybody's giving them candy.
And we're eating stuff allthroughout the day.
We're not eating three squaresa day.
It's breakfast, snack, lunch,snack, snack, dinner, and then
what do they call the midnightmeal now at Taco Bell?
And so you're never giving yourmouth the chance to get that

(37:07):
back to neutral.
And so obviously, fluoride is inthe water, isn't going to work,
and we've been saying that fordecades.
But now public health is goingto have to come out and figure
something else.
Because I can't understand andI've argued with the ADA and
other dentists about this fordecades but the ADA and the FDA

(37:33):
have hung their hat and the CDChave hung their hat on fluoride
as the only way to prevent toothdecay.
Here in the United States, ifyou have a consumer product that
is intended to treat or preventtooth decay, it has to have
fluoride.
If it doesn't have fluoride.
You can't make that claim.
And the irony of that when youreally think about it.

(37:54):
Tooth decay is a bacterialinfection of our mouth.
It is an infection of strepmutans in our mouth.
Fluoride doesn't address theinfection.
All fluoride does, if youbelieve everything they say, is
it remineralizes your enamel andmakes it less susceptible to
decay.
You see the logic there.

Speaker 1 (38:19):
Yeah, or the lack of logic.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
Lack of logic.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Yeah, so so is part of the mechanism of action of
xylitol, Does it?
Does it alter the pH?
And what does it do to themicro, the oral microbiome?
Right Cause, for anyonelistening who doesn't know, you
have healthy bacteria in yourmouth.
It's a different profile thanwhat we would see, say, in your
large intestine or your colon.

(38:43):
So what does xylitol do inaddition to preventing microbial
adherence to tissue?

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Well, there's a lot of bacteria that can metabolize
xylitol.
The ones that can't are theones that create acid, and so
you're selectively killing offthe ones that create acid, and
so you're selectively killingoff the ones that are that
create acid.
You get rid of the stripmutants, and the reason is is
they try to eat the sugar.
They can't metabolize it.
They kick it back out of thecell, and it takes a lot of

(39:13):
energy to kick that back out ofthe cell.
They eat it again and then andyou and you end up starving that
bacteria to death.

Speaker 1 (39:21):
So they take it in as a putative energy source, but
they can't metabolize it forenergy and they spit it out and
that process costs them energy.
So they deprive them of energymetabolism.
Is that correct?

Speaker 2 (39:36):
That is correct.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
Right.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
And if you go look at the belly sugar studies, this
is the best example of this theyhave.
These had these kids chooseislet all gum, one in the
morning, one in the afternoonand one at school, um, one when
they got there, one after lunchand one before they went home.
And the kids that chewed thisislet all gum had a negative
incidence of tooth decay, whichmeans some of the little
cavities had actually healed up.

(40:00):
But the biggest decay, whichmeans some of the little
cavities had actually healed up.
But the biggest surprise ofthat study was the University of
Washington.
This was the University ofMichigan Dental School that went
down and did it and eight yearslater the University of
Washington Dental School wentback and did a follow-up and the
kids that had used the xylitolgum for those for that two year
study period still had over 75%fewer cavities Eight years later

(40:26):
where they aren't using it.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
So when they're not using it, so it it.
I would imagine what that meansis that it it established a
favorable oral microbiome thatcontinued the effects of of
being uh you know, anti-cavity,so to speak.

Speaker 2 (40:42):
And that is correct.

Speaker 1 (40:43):
Yeah, and so you said something earlier about, like
the original dental research,the kids who chewed xylitol gum
had fewer upper respiratoryinfections, and I would imagine
that would be likenasopharyngeal sinus and would
you include ear infections inthat as well?

Speaker 2 (41:00):
Well, the ones they were looking they're counting
specifically were ear infections.

Speaker 1 (41:05):
They were in, Okay.
So the question that I imaginesome people are asking well,
well, how does something in yourmouth affect your your inner
ear or compartment, or how doesit?
Affect your sinus compartment.

Speaker 2 (41:16):
Ear infections.
Uh, a lot of people think theyget in through your ear, but
they don't.
They get in through theeustachian tube, which is in the
back of your throat.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
Yeah, so these airways, these pipes basically
are all continuous, so you canget bacteria that seeds either
through the nostrils into thesinus cavity or through the
mouth to the back, and then itbasically goes upwards and gets
distributed right, correct, andxylitol is just helping clean
that out.

(41:44):
Yeah, and so it seems to me thatthat, um, if I could use the
analogy of uh, of like seedingground, if you have uh
infections that are seeded inthe the nasopharyngeal
environment, but you can changethat Uh, it seems to me that the
xylitol is an upper respiratorystrategy, is leveraging the

(42:06):
fact that most of theseorganisms are housed in that
nasopharyngeal compartment.
Is that, is that yourunderstanding of the mechanism
and what's in the literature?

Speaker 2 (42:16):
Yes, um, that's, that's part of it.
So xylitol in the upper airwayworks in actually surprisingly a
number of ways.
The first one is, as we'vealready discussed it binds up
and blocks the ability of a lotof these pathogens to adhere.
Right is and these are studies.

(42:38):
They're all on our webpage Ifyou guys want to go and read
them.
I mean they're not, but there'slinks to them on our webpage.
This was a study that was doneby a, by a dentist.
His name's Dr Stephen Olmos.
He's down out of San Diego, buthe used ultrasound and measured
the airway volume, and then hehad them use our nasal spray and

(42:59):
in three minutes he measuredthe airway volume again.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
In three minutes their airway volume had improved
by 20%.
Is that because if, for example, the nasal mucous membranes
were swollen, they enlarge,which reduces the air passage,
air passage, the volume of thepassage itself.

Speaker 2 (43:27):
Is that what the issue is?
Uh, yes, but what it did?
Is it actually reduced thatswelling that it reduced?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
that.

Speaker 2 (43:33):
I'm sorry, that that's what I meant to say, if I
miss both my apologies yeah,but so it was inflamed and
what's happening is because weuse an 11% solution of xylitol.
Osmotically, it is going topull that moisture out of the
tissue and reduce thatinflammation.

Speaker 1 (43:50):
Right.

Speaker 2 (43:51):
Okay, so it opens the airway.
The other thing that it does isit actually speeds up the
mucociliary clearance cycle andthe faster you get all that
mucus cleaned out with pathogens, allergens, bacteria, you name
it then the less there is achance that it's going to affect
you, less the chance thatyou're going to get sick.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Yeah.
So just to put this in context,like a lot of the people that
have listened to my podcast forthe last couple of years and any
practitioners like we, we endup talking about the gut and
mucosal immunology a lot and howthe immune system's embedded in
that mucus lining of the gisystem.
Well, the same thing occurs inin the sinuses and in the

(44:35):
nasopharyngeal space, and youyou the term the nasociliary
mechanism.
This is basically a bunch oflittle finger like projections,
little tiny hairs that wave backand forth, that actually create
almost like a brushing motionto keep debris from accumulating
so you can expel it and get ridof it.

(44:56):
Right?
So you're saying that xylitolimproves that functionality,
correct?
Do you know the biochemistrybehind that?
I seem to remember somethingand I actually wanted to ask
this question about the oralmicrobiome as well, but I seem
to remember something aboutnitric oxide being involved in

(45:17):
that process in the nasociliarymovement.

Speaker 2 (45:24):
I don't know the biochemistry of it.
Um, I do know that there youbrought up nitric oxide, but I
do know that there've been acouple of studies where they
used saline and xylitol andcompared them, and the people
that used xylitol hadsignificantly more nitric oxide

(45:44):
in their airway.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
That I don't know the biochemistry of.

Speaker 1 (45:49):
Yeah, so then that kind of brings up in fact on the
podcast.
Sometime last year Iinterviewed Dr Nathan Bryan,
who's one of the top researchersin nitric oxide.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
He's got a great name .
He's got to be a smart guy.

Speaker 1 (46:03):
Oh, there you go.
So, anyways, he was talkingabout how you know, roughly 50%
of the nitric oxide that we havein our bodies are produced in
the mouth by bacteria as part ofthe oral microbiome that take
the dietary nitrates and convertthem into nitrites and then we
swallow that and convert that tonitric oxide.

(46:25):
So one of the questions I wasgoing to ask if you're prepared
or equipped to answer that wasdo we have any studies?
I could not find them, doesn'tmean they're not there, but do
we have any studies to yourknowledge that look at the use
of any of your products and theincrease in systemic nitric

(46:45):
oxide, not just in the mouth orin the saliva or in the airway,
but system-wide, because thosetwo systems are linked you know
what?

Speaker 2 (46:55):
I am not aware of one , but let me grab a pen because
I that's actually an interestingI'm going to grab a paper from
over here.
Sorry, that's okay.
Um, I'm actually going to umwrite that down.

Speaker 1 (47:10):
Yeah.
And I will kind of frame outthe context like look up the um,
the oral production pathway fornitric oxide.
Yeah, and there's.
There's a handful of bacteriathat are part of the healthy
microbiome in the mouth thatcontain enzymes that we as
humans don't have right.
So we rely on these mouth-basedbacteria to take nitrates from

(47:33):
our diet, convert that tonitrite, we swallow that and
then our gut starts to makenitric oxide.
That's one of two productionroutes in the system that would
theoretically affect systemicnitric oxide production.

Speaker 2 (47:48):
Correct?
Um, I do I.
I know just barely enough to tobe dangerous.
About nitric oxide, me too, um,but what I also know is that
the bacteria that help us digestgluten and milk are also in our
mouth, and when we use amouthwash that kills 99.9% of

(48:11):
bacteria, all you're doing iskilling off all of those
commensals, the good bacteria.
Good bacteria, because even ifyou have someone that has a very
high incidence of cavities,probably no more than 15 to 20%
of the bacteria in their mouthare ones that cause cavities or

(48:32):
ones that are creating acid.
The rest of them are the onesthat are helping us digest our
food.
So if you're using somethingthat kills 99.9%, you probably
should stop, because you'rekilling your nitrous producers.
You're killing your commensalsthat help you digest milk and
gluten and other foods.

Speaker 1 (48:49):
So and that brings up something else is like you
don't have only nasal sprays andxylitol mints.
You have a xylitol-based gumwhich I would assume is
fluoride-free, correct.
You have a xylitol based gumwhich I would assume is fluoride
free.
And so we're along the way,like maybe we can go back to the
origin story of the company,cause I know your dad was making

(49:10):
xylitol products.
I think you have one of yourpodcasts or interviews.
You called it jungle juice orhe called it jungle juice.
But then you know, like nowyou're in a situation where you
have, you know, five or sixdifferent products, to my count.
You have different versions ofnasal sprays, you have xylitol
gum and mints and you have um,you know, the toothpaste.

(49:33):
So where along the way did youstart back on?
Like we're really ontosomething here.
We need to start broadening ourproduct offering to fill holes
based on the mechanisms of whatwe know Xylitol can do over here
and over here and over here.
What was that and what processdid you go through to get to
that?

Speaker 2 (49:54):
So we started with the nasal spray.
I mean, obviously, that's whatmy dad had invented, that was
what my dad had a patent on,that's what my dad had invented,
that was what my dad had apatent on.
We started with that.
Within literally months we hadcustomers of ours asking us why
we weren't selling xylitol gum,because many of the people in

(50:17):
the natural product spacealready knew about gum with
xylitol and how it preventedtooth decay.
So we actually started buyinggum and reselling it.
Within I want to say, two years, we were one of the largest gum
, xylitol gum companies in thecountry.
I mean, we were.
We were the biggest one in thecountry.
We were one of the biggestxylitol gum manufacturers, or,

(50:40):
you know, sellers in the planetand we were the largest one that
was selling a gum that was 100%xylitol.
There's other ones out therethat are selling gum with, you
know, 2% or 3% xylitol.
I mean, like Trident, theyadvertise with xylitol in their
packaging but there's anineffective amount of it in
there.
They're just not going to doyou any good with xylitol in

(51:01):
their packaging, but there's anineffective amount of it in
there.
They're just not going to doyou any good.
You want to make sure that it'seither the first ingredient or,
preferably, the only sweetenerin there, and so we got into the
gum and shortly after that wehad people asking us about
toothpaste and so we startedmaking toothpaste and mouthwash
and mints.
Some of the products that we'vecome out with that we don't

(51:23):
currently sell is we actuallycame out with a dental probiotic
and we came out with that about15 years ago, 14 years ago, and
it didn't sell.
The idea and what we actuallyhad is we put it into a like a
pixie stick and I had it and Igave it to my kids and they

(51:47):
loved it Because at night afterthey brush their teeth, I would
have you know and sit in bed andread with them and they would
get to eat their candy.
This pixie stick, but it hadxylitol.
It had non ascorbic or calciumascorbic, which is a non acidic
vitamin C.
It had calcium ascorbic, whichis a non-acidic vitamin C.
It had vitamin D I'm trying toremember what else it had but it
was, in essence, a probioticpixie stick with all the

(52:13):
vitamins calcium, glycerol,phosphate, everything't really
sell.
It really didn't take off.
We're we're looking toreintroduce that now because we
think that today, 15 years laterum people have a better
understanding of the importanceof a good commensal microbiome

(52:33):
in your mouth.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
When I had that conversation with Dr Brian, I
asked him whether or not theywere.
He and his company were tryingto come up with an oral
microbiome that was gearedtowards producing more nitric
oxide, and he said well, youknow, we kind of tried.
There's some challenges there.
There is one company I'm awareof called Research Nutritionals.
They don't make products likeyours, but they just in the last

(53:00):
year came out with a productfor the oral microbiome Off the
top of my head.
I don't know if it's xylitolbased or if it's botanical based
or a combination of thosethings.

Speaker 2 (53:12):
Well, I will include that in some of the stuff that
we're looking at.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Yeah, this is why, like, honestly, I'd love to have
conversations with people likeyou, because you're I mean
you're clearly creative andentrepreneurial and you're
trying to bridge the gap between, like it's not, like you just
came up with an idea and say,hey, let's make gum with this
and we think it's going to sell.
Like you're looking at numberone, your father's initial

(53:40):
experience in his own practice,and that was based off dental
research and then you've beenpaying attention to, and I would
assume you guys have aninternal process where you look
at what the literature is sayingand identify problems that
either lay people are strugglingwith, or maybe even clinicians
like me lay people arestruggling with, or maybe even

(54:02):
clinicians like me and thentrying to come up with solutions
like how do we use xylitol orother ingredients to fix or help
people fix these problems?
Um, are you like on your team?
Are you largely responsible forinnovation or do you have?
Are you just steering the shipand you have other people that
are responsible for that?

Speaker 2 (54:20):
are you just steering the ship and you have other
people that are responsible forthat?
Um, both, I guess.
No, we have.
We have a number of doctors anda number of dentists and
hygienists that we collaboratewith, that we converse with and
discuss research, discussproduct ideas, discuss ideas for

(54:41):
research and, and, but at theend of the day, you know, I'm
the one that ends up makingthose decisions.

Speaker 1 (54:49):
Right, Right.

Speaker 2 (54:50):
So I mean we were, we had a one and I'll and I'll.
You know, this is not something, this is something that's still
being researched and published.
I want to say, and we're, andwe're helping to fund it.
We're never going to make anymoney, we're not going to put a
product out there, but there'ssome research that just got
published or maybe it's justgetting published, where some

(55:13):
doctors at Northwestern went andtook some humanized rats and
humanized lab rats and gave themcancers, tumors, and then they
use xylitol and Showed that thatcould actually get rid of the

(55:34):
tumors and imagine I'm sorry tointerrupt, but I'm just thinking
like I know that, for example,certain tumors and cancers don't
respond well to, say, ketogenicdiets, which is all about
changing energy metabolism.

Speaker 1 (55:47):
Right and it seems to me, based on what you've
explained before about theseorganisms not being able to
metabolize xylitol as an energysource is that the proposed
mechanism is why that might killcancer.

Speaker 2 (56:00):
That is correct.
Yeah, because if you'restarving it, it can't grow, and
so the tumors.
And where this came from was aconversation, and we were
actually just discussing thesimilarities between strep
mutans eating.
You know, strep mutans, it'smutants.
It's a mutant, it mutated awayfrom the normal one and it

(56:24):
mutated to eat that six carbonsugar and it doesn't actually
metabolize it fully, which iswhy you have acid, and that is
actually kind of very similar towhat cancer tissue does with
six carbon sugars.
I would think that everyoncologist, the minute you have

(56:46):
a patient that comes in and says, yeah, I have cancer, the very
first thing they should do istake you off carbohydrates.
Well there are some doctors thatsuggest that.
There are some, but it isn't.
That's not common.
No, it's not standard of carethat's for sure.
Yeah, standard of care, that'swhat I meant.
Yeah, but you have doctors likeI don't know if you know who
Otto Warburg was, but he was acancer researcher in Germany

(57:09):
prior to World War II and and heactually pointed out that in
you know his, his thought wasthat a lot of cancer was
actually caused by fructose.

Speaker 1 (57:19):
Yeah, I've heard that theory.

Speaker 2 (57:20):
Yeah, so and, and you know, he was an openly gay
Jewish person living in Berlinand he refused to leave and the
Nazi party valued the researchthat he was doing enough that
they kept him alive and with alab throughout the war.

Speaker 1 (57:41):
Wow, that speaks volumes in and of itself.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
Yeah, yeah, so.
So, anyway, I have a.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
I have a question like I've.
I've done um before you and Ijumped on the call today.
I was kind of trying to look atsome of the more recent
research and, uh, you know, alot of times in the world of
natural medicine we learned onething about something like, in
your case, xylitol, and we say,okay, xylitol reduces dental and

(58:12):
and sinus or upper respiratoryeffects.
But if you look at theliterature, it's also a, a
biofilm disruptor which might beimportant in you know cases of
uh, irritable bowel syndrome orother dysbiotic or gut-based
conditions well, hang on.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
Earlier you mentioned that you used our nasal spray.
Yeah, for a certain kind ofpatient yeah ones that had
recurrent sinus infections yeahso there's.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
They're confirmed by.
These were confirmed by nasalcultures, not just.
Oh, I think you have a sinusinfection.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
So there are articles in the medical literature about
that that if people havechronic or recurrent ear
infections or sinus infectionsor upper respiratory issues of
almost any kind, chances arepretty high that there is a
biofilm involved in that.
And yes, xylitol does wipe outthe biofilm.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
But it seems to like we also know.
I think in the early days whenbiofilm research came on our
radar, we thought of biofilm askind of like an exclusively bad
thing that was only used andharnessed by, you know,
potential pathogenic organisms.
But we know now, like you know,the part of the microbiome is

(59:32):
housed within biofilm as well.
So does it seem to be maybe aunique characteristic of xylitol
that while it can break thebiofilm, it exerts most of its
impact on potential pathogens ortrue pathogens and leaves the
microbiome alone?

Speaker 2 (59:50):
Well, it depends on what's in the microbiome,
because it's not going to affectthe microbiome in and of itself
, it affects the bacteria in it.
So when you have, let's say,strip mutans in a microbiome,
you're protecting the microbiome.
That matrix is protecting thebacteria in it, right, and that

(01:00:12):
excludes, it, keeps out anythingthat they perceive as harmful.
Well, the strip mutans, theyget sugar, they they pull the
xylitol into it and they starteating it and metabolizing it
the same as if they wereplanktonic, and they start
eating it.
And the only reason why itbreaks up that biofilm is
because if you get enough of thepathogens in there that are

(01:00:34):
eating it and dying off, thewhole biofilm matrix will fall
apart.
So, it's yeah, biofilm matrixwill fall apart.
So it's yeah, it only is goingto affect the same bacteria that
are that it affects, that areplanktonic, that aren't in a
biofilm.
Right, Does that make sense?
So if you have bacteria thatcan metabolize xylitol and you
have a healthy biofilm, it's notgoing to do anything to it.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
Yeah, Some of the other research and this is
linked to probiotic species isthat I've seen literature that
talks about xylitol and thiswould be consumed orally, right?
Not just something that youswish around in your mouth that

(01:01:21):
it also helps to improve theproduction of short chain fatty
acids, like things like butyrateand propionate, which can be
used to reduce intestinalinflammation in a whole bunch of
different things.
Have you guys played aroundwith not an oral product in the
sense of it stays in your mouth,but something that gets
ingested, and do you have anyideas or plans of going into GI

(01:01:43):
health as opposed to mouthhealth?

Speaker 2 (01:01:48):
Well, respiratory and oral health is where we're at.
We have not we've considered it.
Right now we're spending mostof our excess cash on legal
bills and fighting ourgovernment, and so our
innovation is kind of sloweddown a little bit.

Speaker 1 (01:02:04):
Sure.

Speaker 2 (01:02:05):
But there are, and there, there, there is a study
Again this was done by this, bythe same guy at Northwestern
University where they usexylitol and erythritol to treat
people with C diff infectionsand what they showed is that you
can treat a C diff infectionwith just having a drink with

(01:02:25):
xylitol and erythritol in it acouple of times.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
And that's obviously below the threshold that would
cause like GI upset Cause I knowthat these things absolutely.
These sugar alcohols are slowlymetabolized, they can pull a
ton of fluid into the intestinalsystem and cause what we
commonly call disaster pants.

Speaker 2 (01:02:46):
Well, let me clarify that, because if you have a C
diff infection, I think you'realready well beyond that.

Speaker 1 (01:02:52):
Yeah, true, true.

Speaker 2 (01:02:55):
Yes, and as far as that dirty pants thing, the
xylitol and erythritol that weutilize in our products mostly
xylitol, but we do use a littleerythritol they are not nearly
as laxative as your sorbitol andyour mannitol and your maltitol
.
Those ones are a much biggerissue, bigger issue In fact.

(01:03:23):
If you want to read I don'tknow if I should, you know, say
this on a civilized podcast butif you want to read some of the
funniest stuff you'll ever readonline, go on Amazon and read
some of the Haribo, sugar-freegummy bear reviews.
They are to die for.
Like you will laugh to tears.

Speaker 1 (01:03:39):
Yeah, Just the, the anecdotal, the stories right.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
Oh yes, and they're so hilarious.

Speaker 1 (01:03:46):
Um, you mentioned that you some of your products
have um erythritol in it, whichis not an uncommon natural
sweetener, for you know coffeeand different beverages.
Um, even some.
You know hard products, thatyou know even some hard products
, whether it's protein bars orsports bars.
To your knowledge, doeserythritol have some of the same
properties that xylitol does interms of blocking pathogen

(01:04:11):
adherence or changing viralreplication rates?

Speaker 2 (01:04:15):
So that's an interesting question and my
belief is, yes, but there's notas much studies, there's not as
much data to back that up.
But going back to our legalconundrum with our very great
and very glorious government andin their infinite wisdom, but

(01:04:37):
they actually pushed us to do astudy.
They actually pushed us to do astudy.
So I mentioned earlier thestudy that was done at the
university of Tennessee thatshowed that xylitol blocked the
ability of the SARS COVID-2virus to adhere to tissue.
That was done on on barrelkidney monkey tissue, which
that's the industry standard forthe pharmaceutical industry.
And the FTC came to us and theysaid we gave them the data and

(01:04:59):
they said, no, you can't usethat, it's not, it's not in your
nose, it's not human airwaytissue.
We're like, okay, so it's thestandard for the pharmaceutical
industry.
Well, no, you have to doanother study.
So we actually went and didanother study and we got some
human airway tissue and welooked at erythritol, because
it's a four carbon sugar.
We looked at xylitol as a fivecarbon sugar and we use sorbitol

(01:05:20):
as a six carbon sugar and welooked at at which ones do we
look at?
We looked at SARS-CoV-2.
We looked at H1N1.
We looked at RSV, we looked atrhinovirus, we looked at
adenovirus, we looked at MERS.
I mean, we looked at a bunch ofthese viruses and, yes,
erythritol does block some ofthose better than xylitol does

(01:05:42):
and better than sorbitol does.
The one that they alleffectively block is SARS-CoV-2,
which is crazy, and it goesback to what I said earlier.
Sars-cov-2 is an incrediblysimple pathogen.

Speaker 1 (01:05:55):
To counter, you just have to do anything other than
sit there and do nothing donothing, yeah, which is, like
you said, was what we were alltold to do, um, so let's talk
about some of the specificproducts, as we kind of danced
around this a little bit.
Um, I've mentioned the, thesinus spray, or the nasal spray
that I've used personally aswell as clinically, um, and I

(01:06:18):
know that there's a, a nasalrinse, um, kind of like the
Allah the neti pot type strategy, and, um, I've heard you on
other interviews say, well, youdon't really want to use the,
the rinse, all the time, but youcertainly could use the nasal
spray on a routine basis, eitheras a preventive or, um, let's

(01:06:40):
say, as a, as a therapeutic ifyou already have an event.
So why don't you talk to mejust about the applications as
you guys see it and I understandthat you're not giving medical
recommendations or personalrecommendations, but just
general usage of some of yourcore products why don't you walk
me through two or three of them?

Speaker 2 (01:07:00):
So our products, first of all, the majority of
our products.
We do have two products thatare drugs, that are classified
as drugs.
Otc pharmaceuticals A fluoridetoothpaste is one of them.
Another one is our latestproduct line extension was
actually putting oxymetazolineinto a nasal spray, so that all
the people out there that areusing Afrin and all these other

(01:07:22):
oxymetazoline into a nasal spray, so that all the people out
there that are using, you know,afrin and all these other
oxymetazoline based sprays, theycan get one that has the
benefits of adding xylitol to it, and hopefully our goal is to
get them off of theoxymetazoline, which is not that
good for you, and using onewith straight xylitol, which is
great.

Speaker 1 (01:07:37):
So you look at that as a transitional product.

Speaker 2 (01:07:40):
Absolutely A hundred percent.

Speaker 1 (01:07:41):
Like a bridge as a transitional product, Absolutely
Like a bridge product.

Speaker 2 (01:07:46):
Correct, it's a product to get more people into
the franchise, into the idea ofnasal hygiene.
And then the other one that wehave is a high volume irrigation
.
It's just like a neti pot, butyou squeeze it in one nose, it
comes out the other and a lot ofdoctors tell their patients to

(01:08:11):
use that every day, twice a day,and and we disagree with that
philosophy and I'll give a goodexample, a good comparison.
This was.
This was a comparison that wasnot first put out by me, it was
one that was put out by an ENTat George Washington University
that actually did the studies toshow this.
But when you people use nasalirrigation every day, twice a
day, they're cleaning out theentire protective mucosal layer

(01:08:35):
and you need that protectivemucosal layer.
If you wash that out, it's goingto take you, you know, a couple
hours to rebuild that, for yourbody to redo that.
That whole time, the underlyingtissue is exposed to pathogens
and irritants.
Okay, but what he compared itto is he said, yeah, you go back
a hundred years and doctorswould tell women to use douches

(01:08:58):
and after a hundred years ofthis, what did they find out?
And after 100 years of this,what did they find out?
Probably not a good idea.
It's not a good idea because ayou're killing all the resident
commensals that you need.
You're also flushing out all ofthe protective mucosal layer,
so you're making yourself moreprone to more infections.
And and he actually showed thatthat if you take people who are

(01:09:21):
using nasal irrigation andevery day, twice a day and you
just have them stop, they gothrough about a two week period
where it's not very comfortable,but after that most of the
symptoms just clear up.

Speaker 1 (01:09:35):
And that's because they're regenerating that
mucosal tissue, that mucosallayer.

Speaker 2 (01:09:38):
Correct yeah, that mucosal tissue, that mucosal
layer, Correct, yeah, and hisname.
If you want to look up thesepapers, his name is Talal
T-L-A-L, Nasuli N-S-O-U-L-I, andmost of his papers not most,
but some of these papers we havelinks to from our webpage, so
we so the we?

Speaker 1 (01:09:59):
I'm sorry, no, please continue.

Speaker 2 (01:10:01):
So we only encourage people to use the irrigation
bottle sparingly, as needed oras their physician counsels them
to, and what we advise peopleto do is to use the nasal spray.
You know, when you first startusing it, use it three or four
times a day because you'retrying to break up any biofilms

(01:10:22):
you're trying to.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
You know that are pathogenic, you're trying to
clean, you know, everythingthat's in your nostrils and your
sinuses out, and then afterthat, once in the morning, once
at night should be enough theroutine use of the nasal spray,

(01:10:44):
say, twice a day, doesn't getyou into the same place, because
the I would imagine one of thebig differences is the volume of
liquid and the mechanicalinteraction right, it's just the
magnitude is much higher with arinse than it is with sprays.
Is that what the issue is?

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
That's correct, and when you use a spray, you're
putting xylitol into the mucus,which is going to speed up the
clearance of it and it's alsogoing to block pathogens, but at
no point are you leaving theunderlying tissue exposed.

Speaker 1 (01:11:16):
Is there any direct antimicrobial activity, like I
know, for example withSARS-CoV-2, that it can inhibit
viral replication, which is akey strategy to prevent
infections from spreading insidethe same host?
Does xylitol do the same thing,either with just simple viral

(01:11:39):
replication, or does itotherwise directly interact with
microbes other than simpleblocking the adsorption?

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Well, interesting.
You should say that we don'treally talk about it that much.
But we do know that thegrapefruit seed extract that we
use in our product as apreservative at the 0.2% it
actually destroys coronavirusesas effectively as a 70% solution
of alcohol.

Speaker 1 (01:12:14):
Well, this is going back to something you were
talking about and I kind ofmissed the name of it, but it's
a version of carrageenan.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
Iota carrageenan.

Speaker 1 (01:12:24):
Iota is that iodinated, so it's got iodine in
it.

Speaker 2 (01:12:29):
I don't know enough about iota carrageenan to be
able to answer that question.
Yeah, Um, I the reason why.

Speaker 1 (01:12:36):
I asked that.
The reason why I asked that isthat my my personal physician uh
makes me sound fancy.
My personal physician, uh makesme sound fancy.
My personal physician Um, youknow she does has treated a lot
of people with coronavirusinfections over the years and
one of her staples is abasically an iodine nasal lavage
.
So you get iodine, you diluteit to a certain percentage and

(01:12:57):
then you do the neti pot withthat.
Uh, you know, within the firstweek or so of getting the
infection, I think there's awindow that if you don't grab it
early it's not effective.
But I'm wondering if the, if itis an iodinated carrageenan, if
that's part of the efficacy.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
You know what I'm going to.
I'll actually look that up.
Yeah, well, actually I cananswer that no, I don't think it
is then, and I'm just I'm justthinking this through.
They weren't looking at viruscytoactivity, they were looking
at how it blocked adhesion tothe tissue and so it was

(01:13:40):
blocking adhesion.
It was not well, so I'm sothat's not even clear, because
if you kill it all, it's notgoing to adhere anyways yeah so,
but so I don't know 100%.
What I do know is that xylitolwe actually did a virus idle
analysis of Xylitol and it didnothing to the virus in terms of

(01:14:04):
killing it, but the grapefruitseed extract did.

Speaker 1 (01:14:07):
And in terms of preventing adherence to tissue.
I would imagine that thestructure of the xylitol
molecule basically matched theshape or the confirmation that's
required to bind to thereceptors, on on the infection
itself, on the age to the h2receptor sites so it blocks the
ace to receptors.

(01:14:28):
What what it does?

Speaker 2 (01:14:29):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:14:30):
But without changing its activity, I would assume.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
And and it doesn't block them for very long.

Speaker 1 (01:14:36):
There was a paper that was published.

Speaker 2 (01:14:39):
Yeah, it is transient .
Um, there is a, there was apaper, and I'm trying to
remember the journal that cameout, Um, and I, we, we actually
me and my dad and a couple otherdoctors actually got on the
phone and chatted with theauthor, but he's he's in France,
but he actually wrote a paperabout how xylitol is blocking
the SARS, covid-2 virus fromadhering to the tissue and he

(01:15:01):
you know the way that it does.
It is, it does bind up on that,but it is a very transient
thing.
So you have to keep the levelof xylitol higher, um, than you
know nothing.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Right, right.
And do you think like and again, this is not treatment advice,
but someone who was interestedin stacking the odds in their
favor um, routinely using thenasal spray clear formula
morning and night, and then, atthe first sign of, oh, I think
I'm coming down with something,whether it's coronavirus or not,

(01:15:33):
increasing the frequency of usefor a period of several days.
I mean, I'm, you know, justthinking as a clinician.

Speaker 2 (01:15:40):
now, um, well, so if you're using it, you know three
times a day once the morning,once at night your chances of
getting COVID, according to thepaper that was published out of
India, you're going to reduceyour chances by 70 to 80% of
getting COVID to start with.
If you ever did get COVID, Iwould continue to use it.

(01:16:03):
That's just me.
Again, I'm not giving medicaladvice, but also, if I was,
truly, I thought that I wasgetting sick with COVID, I would
probably use one with iodine.
Just use a nasal spray withiodine, because at that point
you're going to kill all ofthose viruses.
Iodine will destroy the virusin seconds.

Speaker 1 (01:16:33):
Seconds, um, the grapefruit seed, the grapefruit
seed extract, um, that we use,uh, it takes a couple of minutes
to do it, so it's not killingit as fast, right, and so people
who are using that they need tostop themselves from
immediately blowing their noseand curing the science once they
spray it up there.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
Right, yes, you want to spray it up there and let it
sit there.

Speaker 1 (01:16:48):
Yes, yeah, that's exactly right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
Yeah, Um so I I I want to respect your time but
let me add one other thing tothat, because there there are
groups of physicians out therelike the FLCCC, um, you know,
the frontline critical carecoalition, and and they are
actually and I disagree withthem on this, but they're the,

(01:17:10):
they're the primary, you know,they're the doctors.
But I disagree with themtelling people to use an iodine
nasal spray on a regular basisas a preventative Right, and and
they do tell people that.
And the logic behind that isyou're killing everything.
And we know from your mouth, weknow from your gut, that

(01:17:32):
anytime you, you, you destroyyour commensal microbiome, bad
things happen.
And so if you use it, you knowwhen you, when you first get a
tickle in the back of yourthroat, start using it for a day
, a hundred percent, I'm onboard with that.
To go and destroy yourcommensal microbiome over and
over and over and over on adaily basis, I think is is a

(01:17:55):
disaster waiting to happen.

Speaker 1 (01:17:56):
Yeah, and I and I would.
I'll.
I'll just mention Dr Brianagain.
When we did the interview withhim uh, he's published work on.
Uh, like he said to me quiteliterally, and this is a direct
quote.
He said, when Listerine says itkills 99.9% of bacteria, you
believe them.
And so he published data wherethey measured oral microbiome

(01:18:18):
and then had people usemouthwash for a week and they
basically destroyed the oralmicrobiome.
The consequence in his worldwas that reduces nitric oxide
and that's not a good thing.
Um, so his, he's a hugeadvocate of of not using things
that kill all the bacteria, justlike you're saying Um, if you
were to like, what is your?

(01:18:39):
What's your favorite product ofall the, everything that you
make?
What's your favorite and why?

Speaker 2 (01:18:45):
Um, probably the nasal spray.
I mean I brush my teeth withour toothpaste.
I mean you know I use our gum.
I use, I mean I use them all,but but the one that I that I
probably would say is myfavorite is going to be the
nasal spray, for the simplereason that that you can use
toothpaste and you can chew gumand you know you can logically

(01:19:08):
see the long term benefit thatyou're not going to get tooth
decay.
I mean, I haven't had anycavities in 25 years.
I've been sick once in 25 years.
But when you use the nasalspray and if you've used it,
then you're going to know whatI'm saying you can feel that it
works.
You feel a difference inminutes.
Yeah, yeah, so that's why I inminutes?

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:30):
So that's why I like it.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
You have the nasal, just the clear and the clear max
.
I think it's called.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
We also have a clear rescue.

Speaker 1 (01:19:40):
Okay, and what's the difference between those
formulas?

Speaker 2 (01:19:44):
So clear max when we, you know and this is 20 years
ago we started doing someresearch with our customers to
find out what we can do to makea product line extension, and
even though we were at thatpoint 20 years ago, still
talking more about how itprevented and or was used to
keep people from getting sick asa hygiene tool from from

(01:20:08):
bacterial illnesses, what wefound out in that first time we
went on and started talking withour customers is that the vast
majority of our customersactually used it for allergies.
So we said, well, how do we makeit better for people with
allergies?
And so we added capsaicin to it, not a ton, you don't feel it,

(01:20:28):
but capsaicin is just a natural,low, you know, low grade
homeopathic, uh um,antihistamine.
And so if you know that everyspring you're going to get, you
know, seasonal allergies, orevery fall, you're going to then
start using the clearMax duringthat time, and we don't believe

(01:20:51):
that we're going to geteverybody off all of the drugs
but our goal is to get people touse less pharmaceuticals Right
to be less dependent on that.
Yeah, we understand that thereis a time and a place for
pharmaceuticals, but we believethat in our society, in our
culture, we go when we get anuclear bomb of pharmaceutical

(01:21:14):
day one because that's whatwe're trained to do and that's
usually going to be detrimentalto our health in the long run.
Right, and then the rescueproduct came about.
I mentioned that I'd been sickonce since 2000.
Came about I mentioned that I'dbeen sick once since 2000.
And I had a sinus infection.
I went to the doctor and theysaid, yeah, you have a sinus

(01:21:34):
infection.
They gave me some antibioticsor they gave me a prescription
for some antibiotics.
On my way home I called my dadand I said Dad, tell me why I'm
taking a systemic antibiotic fora localized sinus infection.
And my dad you know he's adoctor, but he goes, I don't
know Cause that's what we do.
And I said why don't?
Why don't I get an antibioticand a nasal spray?
And he goes I don't know,sounds like a good idea, let me

(01:21:58):
call and see if there are any.
And and he called me back likehalf an hour, 45 minutes later,
and he goes.
They don't make any nasalsprays that have antibiotics in
them.
They don't make any nasalsprays that have antibiotics in
them.
Yeah, and, and so I and I'm,and right now I want to tell
people don't do this.
I was entirely lucky.
Please do not do this.
But what I did is I took one ofthe capsules of amoxicillin and

(01:22:21):
I poured it into a bottle of ofour nasal spray, I shook it up
and I squirted it up my nose.
Well, the very next morning, mysinus infection was gone a
hundred percent.
It was just gone.
And you figure out how much ofthat antibiotic I actually use,
because I was actually puttingit where it needed to be.
The reason why I'm tellingpeople not to do that is because

(01:22:42):
amoxicillin and mostantibiotics are incredibly
unstable in water, which is whythey're capsules.
They're not usually in gels,they're not usually in liquid
formulas, and you know with kids, when you've given it to them
in a liquid formula, you mix itup and then you keep it
refrigerated and you have to useit within a couple of days.

(01:23:03):
Yeah, so had I used that againthe next morning, I probably
would have had a very negativeside effect.
So please don't do that.

Speaker 1 (01:23:12):
What would you have expected for that to happen?

Speaker 2 (01:23:18):
I can't remember what it is, but it's not.
I remember I looked into it andwe said yeah, that's why they
don't do it.

Speaker 1 (01:23:26):
Oh, don't try this at home, folks don't try this at
home, folks.

Speaker 2 (01:23:32):
Yeah, don't try it at home.
And and, uh, you know, becauseit's not stable and there was
something it was a known um sideeffect of of antibiotic
toxicity when it was was out ofwhat?
When it was in water something.
I can't remember what it was.
I mean, that was 15 years ago,20 years ago, ish, um, and and
then so we actually came up andwe put we took a bunch of these

(01:23:53):
essential oils that areantimicrobial and put them into
a nasal spray.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
And is that what the rescue is?

Speaker 2 (01:24:00):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:24:01):
Yeah, and that's you know.
One of the other strategiesthat I've used with these
chronic recurrent sinusinfections is adding essential
oils to some other carrier baseyou know to be used as a like a
nasal mister, and that that canbe quite effective, although,
you know, what I found is thatthere's no one essential oil
that's going to affect everyinfection the same way.

Speaker 2 (01:24:23):
Correct and we use we actually use Palaearcha, which
is an antifungal.
We actually use paleoarcha,which is an antifungal.
We use tea tree eucalyptus, weuse oregano, and I'm missing one
.
We're missing something elseand I can't remember what the
other one was the rosemary.

(01:24:44):
It's something, but there's inthere.
So we have our, our spanish,our mexican food and we're in
our italian food.
Um, you know, we know whenthey're making up those products
out in, the uh, production areayeah, that's interesting, tell
me and those products you canget.
I mean those products.
The clear product line isavailable everywhere um.

(01:25:05):
Another one, that is, we'rejust barely getting it out um is
actually cough drops.

Speaker 1 (01:25:12):
I saw that on the website, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:14):
But but think of this most of the cough drops that
are on the market, and all thenatural cough drops that are on
the market, are made with sugar.
So if you have strep throat oryou have staph or you have some
other issue of your throat andyou're sucking on a sugar
lodging, what are you doing?
You're feeding it.

(01:25:36):
You're feeding it, and so weactually came up with a sugar
free.
It's natural.
It has xylitol.
It helps get rid of some ofthose bacteria.
It helps get rid of some ofthose bacteria.

Speaker 1 (01:25:47):
So Would you, would you be able to put it into like
a, a throat spray, like a, likea xylitol version of something
like chloroceptic?

Speaker 2 (01:25:59):
Um, we do, we already have.
Um, we, we, we have one outthere, but they use it for dry
mouth and it's a spray that thatworks just like that yeah,
that's so.

Speaker 1 (01:26:11):
Obviously you can repurpose that for just coating,
coating the back of the throat,yep, yeah, yeah, um, why do we
do this?
Because I I would love to keeptalking for for as long as we
could, but, um, tell me, tell mean interesting story or
anecdote from your dad's days.

(01:26:32):
Is he still practicing?

Speaker 2 (01:26:34):
No, he is now 88 years old, um, but no, he's not
practicing.
He lives in Texas, um, his wifeis an assisted living center,
so since that has happened hehasn't really been traveling
that much.
He stays there, he visits, hegoes over to her for five hours
a day.

Speaker 1 (01:26:56):
When he first started making, making the original
version of this, do you think heever envisioned the company
that you're, that you foundedand you're running?

Speaker 2 (01:27:08):
that you're, that you found in your running yes and
no he.
He was under the assumption andit's an assumption that a lot
of people have, especiallypeople in health care that that
if you build a better mousetrapthat the world will beat a path
to your door.
And and it.
It really isn't that way,because you can build.

(01:27:31):
You know.
I'll go back and talk aboutxylitol very general, but if we
implemented xylitol gum chewingprograms in our schools, it
would cost about $25 per studentper year for those programs and
you would eradicate tooth decayand you would reduce

(01:27:52):
respiratory infections by 40%.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
That sounds like a very large percentage of why
people go to the doctor as upperrespiratory.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Yeah, it's by far the number one reason.
Almost everything that you goto the doctor for as an illness
starts in your upper airway.
But public health won'timplement xylitol gum chewing
programs in schools.
We don't know why.
I mean, during COVID weactually threw out a whole bunch

(01:28:22):
of gum because it was gettingshort, dated, because people
weren't buying gum.
They weren't standing at thecash registers and the grocery
stores and buying the gum andthe candy and the cash register.
And we went to the state here inUtah, to the public health
agencies and I'm trying toremember the Karen Catherine,
karen Hoffman something.
But we actually had aconversation.

(01:28:43):
We said we will donate the gum.
You pick two schools where mostyou spend money on Medicaid
children than all the otherschools and we'll hand out gum
and we'll see how it reduces theincidence of tooth decay and
medical expenses over the year.
And her answer was well, who'sgoing to pay for it the second

(01:29:05):
year?
Who's going to pay for it thesecond year?
Well, if you save that muchmoney, then it kind of makes it
a no brainer that the statewould pay for it moving forward.
And she straight up told us andsaid no, we won't do it because
we want to make sure that wemake, that we have the money to
pay the doctors and the dentiststo come in and treat the kids,

(01:29:27):
because we want to make surethey all have equal access to
health care, and that, I guess,has become a code word for stop
all of the prevention programsand let the kids get sick and
get cavities so that we can putmore money toward paying doctors
to treat them, because theythey wouldn't even if we offered

(01:29:50):
to let them do it for free thefirst year because we were
throwing it away.
So how that goes back to my dadis my dad showed that by using a
xylitol nasal spray, youcleaned up respiratory issues.
You cleaned up I mean, he had alot of patients that had

(01:30:12):
chronic allergies and they startusing it and within a month or
so they're done with their goingin and getting their shots.
They're out on the you know, onthe basketball court, they're
playing soccer, they're doinggymnastics, all of these other
things that you would thinkpeople would want to do, but yet

(01:30:36):
there's so many roadblocks thatare being put in place by
government agencies that thatyou can't nobody can beat a path
to the door of whoever makesthe best mousetrap.
Yeah, there's too much moneyinvolved in people being sick.

Speaker 1 (01:30:46):
Yeah, yeah, and that's I mean in the world of
natural medicine.
We we fight against thesethings all the time and and
unfortunately it's it's evenmore complicated because of the
attitudes and the perspectiveson health and wellness of the
healthcare consumers.
Right, for most people now it'sI would say it's different now

(01:31:09):
than 15, 20 years ago, but formost part, the average North
American would rather simply,for example, take a pill than
change the diet and theirlifestyle.

Speaker 2 (01:31:22):
Absolutely.

Speaker 1 (01:31:23):
So you know kind of kind of going back to you know,
we're how we, how we led offwith the whole discussion about
bureaucracy and unqualifiedbureaucrats making decisions
that affect healthcare policy,or you know what you can and
can't say or can and can't take.
Um, I wonder how much thepersonal opinions of these

(01:31:48):
people making the decisions arecoloring, even subconsciously
coloring, the requirements orthe guidelines that they're
putting in place.

Speaker 2 (01:32:00):
I think that they're there.
I'm trying to think of thepeople at the FTC which have
zero basis in science or logic,have a lot to do with who they
choose to go after and prosecuteout and prosecuting big

(01:32:36):
companies for saying thatwashing your nose would help
with COVID.
They pick on little companiesbecause they assume that little
companies are going to roll overand you know, and kowtow and
stand in line and say yes, sir,yes, sir, please, and and walk
away.

Speaker 1 (01:32:55):
And it's easy, easy to pad your uh, uh, your victory
record by going after peoplewho may don't, maybe don't have
the either the resilience or theresources for prolonged legal
doubt, cause it's not cheap.

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
It's not cheap and cheap and and fighting, fighting
the government, the the waythat the courts give deference
to the government, on onpractically everything but
fighting the government.
People sit there and they sayit's like david and goliath and
it's not.
It's like a, a infant baby andyou're fighting 10 goliaths all

(01:33:29):
on roid rage.
Because you can go in with alittle company you know, a small
company like our company, andyeah, we have to pay for these
legal bills.
The government I'm paying fortheir legal bills too, you know.
I mean, they don't pay theirown, they're not playing with
their own money and so it's anincentive not to.

(01:33:50):
The other thing is is that evenif the government brings
baseless lawsuits like this onethe employees, the staff they
never get reprimanded.
They never have, they neverlose any skin on.
You know they don't get fair.

Speaker 1 (01:34:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:34:08):
I mean these, these people would have been there for
21 years and I can tell youright there, if they'd been in
private enterprise they wouldhave probably not had a job for
longer than a year or twobecause they were that cowardly
I don't want to say cowardly,but just the way that their
demeanor was you know that theywould not have succeeded in

(01:34:31):
private business.

Speaker 1 (01:34:35):
Well, as we bring this to a close, where can
people find your products?
I know that they're used byhealthcare practitioners like
myself and I have my own sources, but where can the average
person find your stuff?

Speaker 2 (01:34:49):
my own sources.
But where can the averageperson find your stuff?
The average person can findthis stuff the nasal spray at
CVS, walgreens, rite Aid, target, walmart, pretty much any
grocery store or any pharmacy inthe country.
It's clear.
It's spelled X-L-E-A-R, the Xis for xylitol and it clears
your nose.
That's where the name comesfrom.
The Sprite dental products,oral care products.

(01:35:10):
You have to go to like a healthfood store, like a vitamin shop
or a Sprouts or a Fresh Thyme,something like that, a natural
retailer, but they all have them.

Speaker 1 (01:35:23):
And do you sell online as well?

Speaker 2 (01:35:24):
Oh, of course Online.

Speaker 1 (01:35:26):
Everybody sells online, yeah, you can find them
on our webpage.
You can sell it off yourwebpage as well.
Oh, of course, online Everybodysells online.

Speaker 2 (01:35:32):
Yeah, you can find them on our webpage and you can
you can sell it off your webpage.

Speaker 1 (01:35:36):
Yeah, they can buy it off of our webpage directly.
Yeah, we'll make sure that weput a link to your website in
our description.
Well, nate Jones, I appreciateyour time.
I think you guys are doing goodwork and, and um, I wish you
well in your battle againstthose three-letter agencies.

Speaker 2 (01:35:52):
Well, hopefully we keep up a good fight and
hopefully we push back on moreof their unjust overreach and
agency creep, which is what ourgoal is.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
Yeah, and maybe once that comes to a head and gets
resolved, maybe I can have youback and you can tell us the
story and all the sort ofdetails.

Speaker 2 (01:36:12):
I look forward to it.

Speaker 1 (01:36:14):
All right, nate Jones .
I appreciate it very much.
Thank you very much, sir.

Speaker 2 (01:36:18):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:36:20):
This podcast is for general informational and
educational purposes only anddoes not constitute the practice
of medicine in any form orcapacity.
No doctor-patient relationshipis formed.
The use of the information inthis podcast or any materials
associated with or linked to thepodcast is at the listener's

(01:36:41):
own risk.
The content of this podcast isnot intended to be a substitute
for professional andpersonalized medical advice,
diagnosis or treatment, andlisteners should not disregard
or delay obtaining propermedical advice when a health
condition exists and warrantsthat.
And finally, functionalmedicine is not intended or

(01:37:01):
designed to treat disease, butrather is a natural approach to
support restoring health andwellness.
The use of diet and lifestylemodifications and nutritional
supplementation is supportivefor adjunctive care.

All Episodes

172 | Miracle Molecules: Xylitol - From Nasal Health to Legal Battles, Unraveling Its Systemic Benefits with Nate Jones

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

24/7 News: The Latest

Stuff You Should Know

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}172 | Miracle Molecules: Xylitol - From Nasal Health to Legal Battles, Unraveling Its Systemic Benefits with Nate Jones