Episode Nine - Night Fire And Cybersecurity

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Ever wondered what it's like to tackle the digital demons of cybersecurity while juggling a chef's knife? That's the life of Nightfire, our latest guest—a YouTuber who cooks up a storm in the kitchen and fortifies firewalls with equal passion. Throughout our insightful chat, he takes us from his early fascination with the glamorous hacker stereotype to mastering the nuts and bolts of cybersecurity. We swap tales of forgotten passwords and the humorous side of tech mishaps, but also touch on the serious business of protecting the less tech-savvy from predators of the digital age. Nightfire's journey highlights the blend of skills needed in the cybersecurity arena, emphasizing the importance of a purple team mindset.

The rapid advancement of AI and smart technology is like a double-edged sword, and we make sure to handle both edges with care. Discussing the implications of these innovations, we muse over how they're reshaping education, from grammar assistance to coding help. Yet, we remain grounded, acknowledging AI as a tool, not a replacement for the human touch in creativity and teaching. The conversation takes a sidestep into the cryptic world of cryptocurrency and encryption, where we unpack the complexity of public and private keys with an accessibility that even our non-techie friends would appreciate.

Rounding out our in-depth exploration, we confront the darker side of the internet—the looming shadows of botnets and cybercrime. But it's not all about doom and gloom, as Night recounts an almost cinematic tale of dismantling a hacker's botnet and the subsequent, unexpected dialogue with the hacker themselves. We wrap up with a nugget of wisdom for aspiring cybersecurity buffs and a reflection on our indelible digital legacies. Nightfire's insights and stories are a powerful reminder of the importance of robust digital self-defense and the need for privacy in our increasingly connected lives.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello everybody and welcome back to another episode
of the Ink and Byte podcast.
It's another guest episode.
I know it's been a little bitsince the last time we did it.
I was doing a lot of singleepisodes with just me and I was
really lazy and tired, but I'mexcited to have another guest
episode here.
As per usual, I let the personI'm talking to give themselves a

(00:21):
little intro, so I'm going topass the theoretical even over
virtual microphone over to myguest uh, thanks, uh, uh.

Speaker 2 (00:29):
You can call me night fire.
That's my youtube handle aswell.
I post video game nonsense withmy buddies.
Uh, part-time cyber securityenthusiast and a full-time chef,
and that's about about it.
I'm pretty well-rounded.

Speaker 1 (00:47):
Awesome and chef hi, I know you.
You post a lot of like foodpictures and I'm always like
that looks phenomenal.
Can I eat it please?

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Yeah, that is what I actually get paid to do is cook
food for people.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Awesome, that's exciting.
So I guess let's just jumpright into what we both kind of
know.
You definitely know a lot morethan me, because I've been
taking the longest break everand I haven't had time to get
back to it.
But how did you get intocybersecurity?
How did you get your interestin it?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
Well, honestly, I couldn't tell you the specifics,
but I know that it was likelooking for something new to do.
And then I found Network Chuck.
He is a fantastic guy.
You guys should all look him upon YouTube.
He probably doesn't need me tosay everybody wants to be the
cool hacker guy From.

(01:48):
You know videos and YouTube andmovies.
They make it sound so cool.
And then you do a nosedive intothe technical aspect of it and
you're like this is a lot morethan what they show on the TV.

Speaker 1 (02:04):
Yeah, never.
Chuck is a lot more than whatthey show on the tv.
Yeah, never.
Chuck is a great guy.
Um, I I've watched a little bitof his content, but it's really
, it's really interesting he's agood, uh, beginner guy.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
You know he gets your attention, he gets you
interested in it, and then, whenyou become more advanced, I
moved on to like david bomblehe's awesome.
John hammond he's a fantasticsecurity researcher.
They do some more of theadvanced, newer.
I think he's now covering a newzero-day exploit that came out

(02:42):
this week.

Speaker 1 (02:44):
That's exciting.
What was it?

Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's all good.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
As I gave a cue from my dogs, they automatically
started barking at the door.
So you know you got to love it.
But yeah, so what area ofcybersecurity interested you the
most?
I know I guess I shouldprobably with me.
What got me into cybersecurityinitially was Darknet Diaries

(03:11):
and kind of my brother'sinterest in it.
Uh, trying to break intobuildings and get into server
rooms and just trying to stealor trying to see what
information you can steal andget your hands on, even though
you're technically not allowedto that.
That's kind of what started mebeing interested in the field

(03:34):
was the podcast and just theidea of breaking into buildings
like a spy.
But what, what area do you likethe most?

Speaker 2 (03:45):
that's a tough one because I like the shiny, I want
to break in, use the newestexploits.
That's always fun, but ifyou're looking for like a more
long term solution, which I amnow, it's probably defense, and
so blue team is my new interest,as well as like network
hardening and firewallattributes.

Speaker 1 (04:09):
Awesome.
So where are you predominantlyblue team, are you cause I know
we there was a.
There was a little stint oftime that we both were doing the
try hack me stuff.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I would say I'm predominantly a purple.
I am pretty evenly distributedagainst attack and defense,
which is overall pretty useful,but I wouldn't say I'm a master
at either gotcha and you.

Speaker 1 (04:37):
It's all self self-taught.

Speaker 2 (04:39):
That you do right, it's all self-taught yeah, you
know youtube videos, uh, virtuallabs, vms.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Try hack me, hack the box stuff you get for dirt
cheap yeah, I the uh, the ctfsthat you can do on some of the
websites and the I know try hackme has a really great um like
tools for you to play likegamification type stuff with
other people so you can do thoselittle um ctfs and king of the

(05:10):
hill.
Would king of the hill sounded?
Have you ever done one of those, the king of the hills on try
hack me?

Speaker 2 (05:15):
no, I never had a uh opponent so I never got to play
king of the hill.
But what I found is that it'skind of a purple team exercise.
You attack and defend a point.
You have to get in first, holdthe point and then defend the
exploit so nobody can kick youout of it.

Speaker 1 (05:37):
Interesting.
The concept of King of the Hillis really cool because I never
really hear about it.
I only hear capture the flag.
So I've seen that.
I'm like, oh, that's dope.
I never played it either.
I was too afraid to do any ofthe competitions on there.
I'm like I'm just a simple boy.
I have no idea what I'm doing.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
I'm just poking around in the training rooms.
Everybody always starts ispoking around and then you got
to just find yourself.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
It's a maturity thing , you know, yeah, um, I just had
a thought but I lost it.
Oh no, oh yeah.
Do you have you ever umfollowed or heard of black hills
information security?

Speaker 2 (06:18):
no, I'm unfamiliar with that one they're um pretty.

Speaker 1 (06:21):
they're pretty awesome.
They do a really good newspodcast and stuff and they just
have good resources foreducation.
I always recommend those topeople my brother he's really
big into their stuff.
Sorry, my train of thought isbeing ruined because my dogs
won't stop barking, so I'mstruggling.

Speaker 2 (06:41):
I understand the struggle.
I had a husky for a few yearsand he talks a lot oh yeah,
they're loud doggos.

Speaker 1 (06:51):
I really want a husky badly, but I I hear they're.
Are they really like super megahigh maintenance?

Speaker 2 (06:59):
yeah, a husky's all fine and dandy until you he
blows his coat and then you haveto clean up fur for about three
months straight.

Speaker 1 (07:10):
Was yours vocal.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
Yeah, super, especially when he wanted
attention.

Speaker 1 (07:15):
I gotcha.
So what's your goal with yourcybersecurity stuff?

Speaker 2 (07:23):
with your cybersecurity stuff.
I've kind of transitioned frombug bounties and glory days of
hacking into hardware repair.
I'm currently owning a smallbusiness that I can repair
phones, hardware troubleshoot,remove malware.

(07:44):
It's kind of cool.
It brings in a little cash flow, but it's not like retirement
fund.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Totally, totally understand.
So, ironically enough, I wastalking I don't remember who it
was with, I should, but you knowsleepy brain.
Um, we're talking with one ofmy friends yesterday about just
computer building in general andthey were pretty I'm super bad
with it Like my first computerwas pre-built and it was a
horrible computer.
No, I shouldn't say it washorrible, it wasn't good.

(08:12):
And then I bought parts and Isent it to shop and I had them
put it together for me.
But he was saying it's likeadult Legos.
Do you, can you see PC buildingand repairing like adult Legos?

Speaker 2 (08:25):
Yeah it, once you get the hang of your first PC.
I know that's the mostnerve-wracking one, because
you've bought all the parts andyou want it to go well and then
you're wracking your brain whatdidn't happen?
Why is it not booting?
But after you get the hang ofit and you have a couple builds
under your shirt it's basicallyjust Legos Plug in some RAM,

(08:46):
paste a CPU.
Watch all the pretty colors, dothe things.

Speaker 1 (08:52):
I made fun of one of my friends for getting I'm
looking at my RAM now.
I poked fun at my friend forgetting a shit ton of RGB RAM
and I'm like, why do you wantthat?
You're not going to look at it.
And then I got it, not onpurpose, it was just really good
Ram that happened to be RGB.
And now I just I find myselfstaring at it sometimes and I'm

(09:15):
like, all right, I can get it.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
Yeah, rgb is awesome, but I don't like how prevalent
it is in the market.
Like I can't find ram sticksthat don't have rgb and I was
like I don't need my ram tolight up yeah, I don't need my
gpu to light up.
I have lights.
I love the lights, but thelights are separate and I can
turn them off without turningoff my pc, which is helpful for

(09:43):
overnight downloads yeah, Ican't turn these off, they're
just always on.

Speaker 1 (09:46):
I can totally everything's rgb, though like
I'm surprised there's not morergb in this computer.
I know, um, my friend just gothis computer built.
I think the case was like allfans and I'm like all right,
well that's, but I don't think Ineed eight fans.
I um sorry, go ahead.

Speaker 2 (10:11):
I mean like uh, the world of PC building.
You can have a mini one thatsits under your uh TV and runs a
basic Linux program, or you canhave a powerhouse that runs
games at 8K and 120 frames persecond or whatever you want.

(10:32):
The flexibility is almostinfinite with PC building and
it's kind of like it's betterthan Legos, I'd say.
Until you shock a component andbreak the whole thing yeah, and
then that comes to the technicalside and it's like fixing it.

(10:53):
I'll enjoy fixing it, I enjoythe troubleshooting.
And what did I do wrong?
What can I fix better?

Speaker 1 (11:01):
it's high stakes adult legos.
Can I fix better?
It's high stakes adult legos.
Yeah, it's high stakes legos,yeah, I know.
Um, I got my new graphics cardnot too long ago, after
everything was built, because myold graphics card was from like
pre pre-covid.
It was really old.
So I got another one, um, and Iwas too afraid to put it in

(11:23):
myself, so I spent probably likea week just sitting on it,
going around calling shopstrying to find somebody to put
it in, and I had like every shopI called was like yeah, that's
gonna be 200, 300 and there'sprobably gonna be a few hour
wait time.
And this was before Iunderstood how easy it was to
put a graphics card in the thing.
And then um yeah, after gettingthat response, for like a week I

(11:46):
found this dude.
It was just a single dude.
I didn't know.
I thought he had a shop, buthis shop closed down.
And I called him and he waslike yeah, so I've been calling
shops and trying to get thisgraphics card in.
What's your price?
Because people are telling melike 200, can you do better than
that?
And he was like quiet for aminute and then he was like
they're trying, they're tryingto charge you 200 to put a

(12:07):
graphics card in.
That's a 10 minute job.
I wouldn't even charge you forit it's 10 minutes if that
literally, and that was like, ohokay, I guess I'm being
bamboozled.
So I tried to set something upwith him.
Unfortunately he vanished.
Don't know if he died or if hejust went off the grid.
But uh, I mean, I put it inmyself and I was very brave and

(12:29):
I was like it took me more than10 minutes because I was like
having a panic attack.
Every time something moved itwas like, oh my god, did I just
break it?
Oh my god, my baby.
No, I spent, I turned mykitchen into like a makeshift
workshop to put this thing inthere and then I did it, it and
I'm like, wow, that was reallyeasy and it gave a sense of like
accomplishment that I haven'tfelt while I'm putting something
together, cause it literallywas just take out two screws,

(12:53):
take the old one out, put thisin, screw them back in.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Yeah, I mean I despise people that are
overcharge for the simplestthings.
You're just taking advantage ofthe people that don't
understand.
I mean I can't expect everybodyto know every in and out of a
PC build or how to run a malwarecheck on windows defender.

(13:19):
So I want to.
If I have to do basically noeffort, I'm going to charge them
maybe the transportation fee toget me to their house, but
aside from that, nothing.

Speaker 1 (13:33):
Yeah, there's.
There's definitely like amorality battle.
Like you're, you're holdinglike the cards.
If someone calls you asking youfor something easy, you can be
like, well, I can eitherovercharge them or I can be a
decent human being.
I was so surprised how easy itwas.
But that's also coming from theperson who accidentally plugged
in their monitor to not in thegraphics card, and then I was

(13:54):
wondering why I couldn't rungames over like 30 frames.
And then I called my friendover when he would live near me
to come help me and he wastroubleshooting it for probably
three and a half hours and thenhe was leaving.
We didn't know what it was.
I was like, oh, I guess mygraphics card broke or something
.
He was on his way out he stopsin the door and he looks behind
my terminal and he just staresat it for like 60 seconds,

(14:18):
blinks, looks at me and goes youdidn't plug it into the
graphics card.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
Yeah, the simplest things are often overlooked by
people that do this regularly.
I know I've been like, why isit not booting?
And then I'm like, oh yeah, Ididn't put any Ram in it or the
power switch on the power supply.
Is it flipped on?
I'm like, oh, I'm a genius.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
No, I totally get it.
I now, every time I unplugstuff, I take a picture of what
it looked like before and then Icompare it when I put
everything back in Cause.
That was like that was, thatwas horrible.

Speaker 2 (14:59):
Oh yeah, so I mean and like, so I mean and like.
I find the biggest scam of themall is those programs that will
say we'll remove malware, justpay us, you know, two hundred
dollars and I'm like, windowsdefender will most likely get
rid of every single malware thatis known, aside from like zero

(15:24):
days or something that you puton there by accident, but like
it'll get rid of like 99 of themalware for free because it's
built into your windows yeah,the uh man, there's a lot of
antivirus.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
So my, my um grandmother bless her, I feel I
I don't even like going on hernetwork because I'm afraid that
I'm gonna get the nuke that'sprobably sitting on her computer
to infect my stuff.
But like her computer is soinfected like it's crazy, like
antivirus.
She has like five differentantiviruses.

(16:02):
She only knows about one ofthem, that she actually it's
mcafee and it yeah, literally,yeah, exactly that one.
Every time she goes on theinternet she gets warnings that
every website she visits is notsafe.
And I'm like I'm, I'm like howdo I tell her her computer is
practically a, a, a viper poolof infection and her thought

(16:24):
process is if I unplug it fromthe wall and plug it back in,
everything goes away.
I'm like, oh gosh, please justget it.
I mean, let me, let me justfactory reset your computer
please we're gonna reinstallwindows.

Speaker 2 (16:38):
Everything's messed up yeah, I'm gonna.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
I'm bringing a flash drive with a windows boot on it
and we're going to start fromfresh because this thing needs
to be quarantined, and then I'mburning the flash drive.
It's bad, the amount ofscammers that might be the
safest option.
Yeah, literally that abominationdoesn't need to exist anymore.
The amount of scammers she gets.

(17:01):
Hundreds of phone calls.
It's so crazy.
Every time I bring my stuffover to her house I have to
sleep over.
I have like three vpns going atthe same time.
Like I'm good chief, I don'tneed to bring whatever the hell
is in this network back with meyeah, you could.

Speaker 2 (17:18):
You could just run tails at last.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
I mean, that's a safe version I've been meaning to
just go on wireshark and justwatch, because I'm genuinely
curious to know what's going on,because it's crazy it's all
pinged to china, or somethingyeah, no, it's.
It's crazy.
Speaking of, um, fixingproblems and small problems, I

(17:44):
um this is me being silly but onmy cali linux I keep forgetting
my password, so I think thepast five times.
This is why I haven't likepicked up my normal, because
right now I have a cybersecurity textbook I got for my
birthday oh, I'm such a nerd, Iknow, wow, textbook for my
birthday, but, um, I haven'tgone back to my Kali Linux

(18:05):
because I keep forgetting thepassword and I have to go
through the process of goinginto the kernel and changing a
quick boot setting and thenchanging the password and I'm
like I don't want to do it again.

Speaker 2 (18:19):
And the password management.
I'm so glad we have thosetotally legitimate tools that we
could totally trust to watchall our passwords for us how do
you feel about speaking of that?

Speaker 1 (18:31):
how do you feel about like, um proton, proton
services, because I actually Iuse proton, but I I I'm curious
to know if you have any opinionson them I personally love
proton and I recommend it toeverybody, simply because
they're free or at minimal lowcost if you're using their

(18:51):
servers.

Speaker 2 (18:52):
But servers have upkeep, so that makes sense,
even though legal stuff hasgotten in the way that I
shouldn't get into.
But um, they're just privacyforward, even though these old

(19:13):
people in charge are not privacyforward.

Speaker 1 (19:17):
Um, and I I get me going about that.
I understand completely.
So I talked about this oncebefore, so it's safe for me to
bring it up again because I'vealready talked about it.
But my favorite I talked aboutit with Mooney corn, I think you
probably heard it but myfavorite was when there was
legislation going on about likecrypto and stuff, and they were

(19:39):
all gathering together and they,like they banned the one person
who held any from the from theconference.
So you're pretty much removingthe only opposition that you
could add from the discourse.

Speaker 2 (19:49):
I'm like all right, that's where we're at oh man, uh
, the us was gonna.
Well, they are banning tiktokand if you watch the debate in
the courtroom for it, it wassome guy that's probably never
even seen a real computer andhe's like, does TikTok access

(20:13):
the home network?
and the guy's just like yes,because it has to, and so it's
like trying to talk to I don'twant to be offensive, but like
the older generation about howthe internet works because, they
just have it in their theirmind that TikTok is bad because

(20:38):
internet or because blank andblank and you're like no TikTok
access is the internet throughyour home network, because
everything has to access theinternet through a network.

Speaker 1 (20:53):
It's like Facebook.
I mean everybody.

Speaker 2 (20:55):
I mean Facebook's probably more dangerous, but
don't worry, you won't be.

Speaker 1 (21:03):
Yeah, you won't.
You won't be able to be.
I'm pretty in in the episode Italked with with my friend chris
, we were doing the same thing,so it's okay.
Um is, is tiktok actually beingbanned like?
Is that because I I'm a peacockwhen it comes to everything
like that, like I stick my headin the sand and I ignore
everything because my mentalbandwidth is so strained that I
just can't deal with it.

Speaker 2 (21:23):
I get tidbits of info but I don't personally have
TikTok.
I'm not going to be affected ifit is banned.
But the concept of this oldergeneration that makes the laws
banning a thing that they'rejust scared of because they

(21:45):
don't understand I mean, Iunderstand the whole chinese
network and chinese governmentpart, but that's not the
important one is these guysdon't fully understand why
they're banning it.
They just have an idea andthey're just executing it
regardless of everybody else'swishes.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
And it's the same same people that make
cybersecurity laws.
I like to laugh about itbecause black Hills information
security they always cringe.
They're like they talk about alot about some of the laws that
are made and it's just likethere's just a disconnect.

Speaker 2 (22:23):
But yeah, I've had sorry, no, no, I've had Sorry,
no, no, you're good, go ahead.
I mean, I've just I've appliedto a lot of cybersecurity firms
looking for employment theirwebsite, being the tech geek

(22:43):
that I am, find a vulnerability,email them their vulnerability
with my, with my resume, andthey will just never get back to
me ever.
And I was like I literally justproved that I can do things and
you're just patched it quietlyand never talk to me again

(23:05):
that's crazy.

Speaker 1 (23:06):
I know you probably really can't disclose, but like
was it?

Speaker 2 (23:09):
silly things, like really easy silly things well,
I'm not going to tell you thewebsite and they technically
already patched it, so it's fine.
But when you have the con, thelittle contact us button, right,
they didn't have a captcha oranything, so you could write a

(23:29):
five second python script topush that button 10 000 times
per second to simply overloadtheir system and that would be
considered a denial of service,because you would be causing
havoc on their end by givingthem too many requests for their
servers to handle, and theyjust added a captcha and never

(23:56):
texted me again.

Speaker 1 (23:57):
I feel like you're proving that you can.
It's like literally workexperience right there.
I, I, I'm right, I get it.
Man Like I, I, uh, I feel likepeople like when I do job
searching they look at my resumeand be like, oh, he's only 24.
He's probably lying about halfthe shit on here and then you
just don't get back.

Speaker 2 (24:15):
Probably lying.
Yeah, I get that and that'shonestly.
That was the one case that Idid that.
I got so peeved that I juststopped trying to look for jobs
and I feel like.
So I started the small businessfixing stuff, get my name out
there and then somebody willcontact me when they're ready,

(24:38):
because clearly contacting themdoesn't work.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Honestly, it's probably just how uh the
butterfly effect stuff.
Maybe it's uh beneficial, right, because now you have your own
small company well, well, can Iask you a question?

Speaker 2 (24:51):
oh please please do, please, I'm I'm a horrible host
today yeah, what's your thoughtson the chat, gpt, uh ai,
progression, you know, is itdoomsday, skynet, or do you
think it's gonna help usevolutionize the species of
human?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
it's a really good question.
I um, really think it dependson the person using it, because,
like I cannot tell you, like Iwas in university when it was in
the thick of it and all theprofessors were like doomsday,
prophesizing, and like you'llget kicked out of school and
fined and have to pay, likeliterally you'll never be able

(25:31):
to go to school again if you useit.
I um, I think if you're thestudent or the person that gets
tasked with saying essay to doand you go up to chad gbt and
ask it to write the entire essayand don't even look at it, then
you probably shouldn't be inschool.
But I find, especially in myown utilization of it, that it's

(25:53):
a good buffer and it's reallygood to ask questions if you
don't have direct access toanother way to find the solution
.
I use it for my grammar, becausemy grammar is horrible, and I
might use it for some of myblogs.
I might put in what I write andI'm like how can this sound
better?
Do you have any suggestions?
I read what it outputs and thenI edit that further.

(26:13):
So I think it's a good buffer,but you never want to use what
it tells you from face value andyou never want to use it from
like a search engineoptimization perspective, just
copying and pasting it into yourown stuff.
It's really a buffer.
I'm not a developer, what's up?

Speaker 2 (26:31):
No, I was just agreeing.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
Oh yeah, I'm not a developer so I can't say how it
feels in that industry.
I know I've had used it towrite code before, like for my
Twitch.
They have HTML markup for theabout sections and I'm like can
you format this in Twitch HTMLso I can place it in my about
panel?

(26:53):
I think there's probably goingto be safety rails forced on it,
if it hasn't already, because Inoticed there's definitely been
a dip in the quality of outputsthat make it so it can't do
certain things to safeguard jobs.
I feel like that's somethingthat legislation would end up
doing, but I don't think it'sdoomsday.
I don't think it's doomsday.

(27:13):
I don't think we're going to befighting the Terminator anytime
soon.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
No, I don't believe it'll be that bad, but I am.
No, I don't believe it'll bethat bad, but I am, I'd say,
confident that it will take somejobs you know, my heart goes
out to the freelance artists andhaving a few friends that are
freelance artists it willdisrupt their flow, but like you

(27:44):
know.
But like you know, cars tookaway the need for carriages and
elevators, stairs and, yeah, thetypewriter and computers.
You don't need peoplehandwriting mathematics anymore
and you have a calculator.

Speaker 1 (28:02):
What math teachers say you're never gonna have a
calculator, so you have to dothis all by hand.
But in actuality you alwayshave a calculator.
What math teachers say you'renever gonna have a calculator,
so you have to do this all byhand, but in actuality you
always have a calculator.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah that, so you have the invention of the
calculator, ballpoint pen.
Things have changed and takenaway jobs that seemed essential
at the time.
Unfortunately, I just believethat's going to happen.
But at the same time, an aionly goes off what it's fed.
So if it's fed a bunch ofpictures of iron man, it's not

(28:33):
going to know what a rocketraccoon looks like, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Just as an example oh yeah, no, totally, and I um my
other kind of feeling I don'tlike saying opinion, but I guess
my other feeling of feeling Idon't like saying opinion, but I
guess my other feeling on on itis like we're kind of in like a
creative era, like a lot oflike you know, we have self
checkout, we have all thetechnology that are disrupting
jobs that could be automated.

(28:57):
Rather simply, I feel like it'sjust approaching an era in the
human race where we're going tobe able to focus on creativity
and not so much I don't want tosay mundane because that might
sound rude but the rudimentarythings that were that seemed
important before the technologydisrupted it, if that makes
sense.

Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah, I get it.
You know Walmart's a terribleplace to check out because
there's no people workinganymore.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
Yeah, and there's a lot of theft.
Yeah, but I think place tocheck out because there's no
people working anymore.

Speaker 2 (29:35):
Yeah, and there's a lot of theft, yeah, but but I, I
think I think the, I think thetech allows people to focus on
being more creative, um, andefficient.
Oh, absolutely.
Uh, I think it'll evenstreamline, uh, constructive
learning.
You know you're like explain uhthe louisiana purchase, dumb it
down, and it'll dumb it downfor you.
It'll use simpler words, it'lland, like your teacher, sure, I

(29:57):
love teachers.
Teachers are overworked andunderpaid.
But if you're struggling tounderstand, like AP chemistry or
whatever, and you type in achat you can see, explain what a
carbon bond is, and then it'llgive you pictures and it will
give you step-by-step whateveryou're needing help with.

(30:20):
And teachers can't give thatone-on-one to a class of 30 or
40 students at once.
There's just not enough timefor that.
So if you use it as a teacherassistant, it would be fantastic
, but people are afraid that itis going to be the teacher,
which I don't believe it coulddo that.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
Yeah, I agree.
The perception of it just ingeneral was skewed, I think,
like it could be assistantlearning, like if it was just
used as an assistance tool, butit kind of the perception kind
of jumped to like it's going totake over everybody's livelihood
like, I don't like even nomatter about that for years.

(31:04):
Oh, yeah, like, no matter howcrazy the ai gets, if if it's
still like you looking at ascreen, you're not, you're the
the experience of being taughtby a teacher is still going to
be profoundly better, in a sense, for most of the time, because
you're getting a human to humanconnection and there's things

(31:24):
that people can get to betterthan an AI ever could through
inflections, through facial likemovement and body language.
So it's just, it's literallyjust an assistance tool.
That was just, you know,thought it was going to be in
the terminator.
I can't tell you how crazy.
Like every beginning of thesemester, like my, my last three
semesters, there was like mostof the syllabus talk that you

(31:47):
get.
It pretty much just evolvedinto teachers ranting about how
they hate chat, gbt and how theyliterally send you to jail if
you use it, and I cringed everytime.
I'm like, okay, it's anassistance tool, it really just
depends on the student, reallyjust depends on the student
warranted.
There was a lot of not to throwshade on the campus, but there
was a lot of students thatdefinitely would and have used

(32:08):
it to do everything for them.
But if you're gonna go intodebt to go to school and not
really try to do it yourself,then I mean that's on them yeah,
I mean, I understand where theteachers are coming from.

Speaker 2 (32:24):
They don't want to dig through piracy constantly
yeah and piracy is illegal,regardless if you're using chat
gpt or not.
Before chat gpt, I wasnotorious for just copy and
pasting quick notes.
That was how I got through highschool.
But illegal, don't do that Iwill be.

Speaker 1 (32:47):
This is I was telling my bosses today the only reason
why I finished math 102 wasbecause covet happened.

Speaker 2 (32:54):
That was the only reason why I finished math 102
and covet kind of showed us thatthe Internet is no longer a
privilege, it's kind of anecessity, especially with
forcing kids to do online school.
I believe in public school butat the same time not everybody

(33:17):
has that access or some peopleare in a situation that being in
front of that many people, orbullying or whatever a public
school could be detrimental.
But then you, you have thepower of the internet and you
can learn almost as much, or ifnot more, information from the

(33:38):
internet, as long as you cankeep them off.

Speaker 1 (33:40):
You know tiktok and fortnite oh man, you just gotta
it's the parent's job to keepthe kid focused yeah, the again.
I had a good conversation aboutthat specifically with chris and
the last guest episode.
But the, the covid generation,it's like covid just in general,
even in my, in our age groupand university.

(34:03):
You forgot it made peopleforget how to be students and
the stuff I was seeing was wild,but not even in our age group,
but like really younger kids andyoung adults and stuff and
teenagers.
Um, just seeing the effect thatcovid had and fortnight had is
it's.
It's a little scary and ascringy as it sounds, I just seen

(34:24):
a video the other day theSkibbity Toilet stuff.
That is literally, literally.
I was talking to my friend.
The Skibbity Toilet stuff is afundamental building block in
middle school ecosystem where,if you're not a fan you actually
get bullied.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Oh, dude, my middle school was just.
I think it was the wimpy kiddiaries and that was.
I didn't read that book becauseI thought it was dumb, so I was
outcasted and it was likewhat's a cheese dust?
I don't understand.

Speaker 1 (34:55):
Oh man, my, my 10 year old self would be so
enraged.
I was a dieter.
I would be kidding her.
I never knew people got bulliedover.
That that's new to me, though Inever it was just outcasted.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
It would be like it was just he doesn't get the
jokes, kind of thing, but it waswhatever it's really like.

Speaker 1 (35:10):
I tried to find a comparable.
That's not a word, but we'regonna go with it.
I tried to find something tocompare when we were in like
middle school, where you gotbullied for not liking it.
That's as cringy as a toilettoilet with a G man head in it
and a bunch of people withcameras for faces and I couldn't
find a comparison.
It's just crazy.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
The internet was at its baby stages back when we
were kids, and so, unless youhad some serious know-how on how
to navigate, because Google'snot as old as we, google's
younger than us, and so kidscould just Google whatever now,
and we had, you know, the hipnew book.

(35:57):
We had those book fairs or bookclubs, or it was the movie that
came out, book fairs were fire.

Speaker 1 (36:04):
Book fairs are still good and they should come back
yeah, I agree there was afeeling of going to a book fair
and like, have you ever seenthose like tornado tubes where
you spin it and you have alittle tornado in it oh my god,
those were literally myaddiction.
I love those so much.
There was just a feeling ofgoing to a bookstore buying a
book and getting one of thosetornado tubes.
I think they were literally myaddiction.

(36:24):
I love those so much.
There was just a feeling ofgoing to a book store, buying a
book and getting one of thosetornado tubes.
I think they were literallycalled tornado tubes yeah we
need more books.
No, but like more books yeah,and there's like there's a,
there's an argument to be made,um, about you, about parents

(36:45):
restricting that stuff.
Tiktok, doom, scrolling is athing.

Speaker 2 (36:50):
I'm not even going to get into the book banning stuff
.
That's nonsense and that's justthat has to stop.

Speaker 1 (36:59):
As an English degree and English student, I talked
about that a lot with someprofessors, that's just you know
, it's so you want to knowsomething weird, right?
What, what's?

Speaker 2 (37:11):
up.
I live in montana and it's aweird backward state.
Our governor decided it wasgoing to be a good idea to ban
adult content on the internet.
He didn't do a very good job,because the number of vpn
downloads skyrocketed the daythat law took effect and I was

(37:32):
like, wow, he stopped nothingyeah, I don't think a lot of
people in the upper echelons ofthe legal system know that vpns
exist or know what they do oryeah, I think it's more.
They don't know what they do um.
So I'm in california, uh,legally you press a button and

(37:54):
you can be anywhere as and youbypass any type of issue that
they yeah so I find the issuewith that isn't just he did
nothing and wasted my taxdollars, it's he made a law that
you had to prove that you're anadult to adult websites with a

(38:17):
photo id, which is a hugeprivacy concern.
I'm not going to give anybodyon the internet my photo id and
then people just circumvented itwith a vpn, but there's half a
billion vpns on the app storeand who knows which one's
collecting your data and whichone's actually doing what they

(38:38):
say they are?

Speaker 1 (38:40):
that is true, speaking, um sorry.
No, no, you're good, I actuallylost that thought the second I
started to say it.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
So go ahead uh so I was gonna say they, if the you
know sketchy vpn company thatyou just downloaded for free, is
it really free if they'reselling your data and then you
get these weird pop-up ads orthese sketchy malware websites?

Speaker 1 (39:12):
There's singles in your area looking for a fun time
.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Yeah, those.
So you're getting all of yourweb traffic is going to the VPN
provider and then to the websiteyou want.
But if they're holding theservers, that is, the VPN, then
who's to say it's encrypted andthey can't look at it to see

(39:39):
exactly where you've been on theInternet.
So it leads you into a falsesense of security.
You're like nobody's gonna know.
I visited, you know, uh, sendnudescom, the noodle website I
love that.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
I'm trying to recall the name of the password manager
.
I should know because I wrote apaper on them was it last pass
the one?
Yes, that one yeah, that's areally I um, since we're talking
about like data collection andeven though there's a lot,
there's a lot of companies, Isay your stuff is secure with us
.
I think last pass is a greatexample of a password manager

(40:20):
that has your stuff encryptedand then they lose the key to
the fort and then your stuff isno longer safe.
Yeah, it's like oh, so rememberwhen we told you we were like
the most secure password manager, and give us your data nom nom
nom and we'll keep it safe.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Oh wait we actually lost the key.
I remember I used last pass forlike all of one week.
I didn't like the way itoperated, so I jumped the boat
early.
But the amount of passwordsthat are suddenly leaked on the
dark web is absurd.

(40:59):
And it's just.
You can't trust a company to dothat if they're not going to be
secure themselves.
So what do you do?
exactly, it's I, I which is whyI praise proton, uh, with all

(41:22):
heavens.
They encrypted in such a waythat they don't even have access
to your private key.
Only you do, and the personyou're sending it to has.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Proton's great.

Speaker 2 (41:35):
Proton cannot access anything that you send through
their servers.
They have it set up in that wayon purpose, which I love about
them.

Speaker 1 (41:47):
I, uh, ironically, in the textbook that I've been
reading, started to get into thesection about decryption and
they were it was.
It was a hard chapter to readbut, um, talking about how
public keys can only be X, itwas like private keys can only
be accessed.
It was like private keys canonly be accessed with public

(42:08):
keys and public keys can only beaccessed by private keys, and
it was like, interesting.
That's probably not the exactwordage, but there's a lot of oh
no, it's complicated on purpose.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
I had to reread it like three times and have
ChatGPT dumb it down for me, soyou're not the only one.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Because it's so weird .
It feels like backwards in asense.
I'm like how does that work?

Speaker 2 (42:31):
the way I've understood it is the public key
is public for anybody to have.
It can unlock your data in aparticular way like a safe with
a secret bottom is a good way toput it and then your private
key can unlock the main part ofthe safe plus the secret part.
And that's just the simplestway I've visualized it no, I

(42:55):
like that.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
That's definitely nicer than how the textbook put
it.
I um, because I still had a fewmore thoughts about the last
pass stuff.
I remember that that it was forcrime society.
Of course, I was the only techperson in the entire room but,
um, I wrote my essay about it.
But we also got paired ingroups and we had to talk about
specific crimes.
And I had the um cryptoexchange company.

(43:22):
Oh goodness, there was a.
There was a.
No, I think it was.
Do you remember the cryptoexchange that got in, uh, really
big trouble and the guy ranaway with all the money.
I don't remember what yeah, thecrypto.

Speaker 2 (43:37):
I don't remember the name, but I understand what
you're talking about.
He like it was a fake exchangeon purpose.

Speaker 1 (43:43):
Oh yeah, I'm bad.
I'll put it in the show notes.
If I remember, my group hadthat and I'm the only person
that is in crypto.
So I had the honor ofexplaining the whole situation
to a group of people who werenot reset Because it's a hot
topic and being into that stuffon a campus that mostly is not

(44:06):
into it was uh, it was.
It was fun to try to explainwhat was going on I mean it.

Speaker 2 (44:14):
Crypto is a weird subject I've had.
I've had conversations withpeople about crypto and it
usually starts with that's notreal money.
And I'm then I hold up a dollarbill and I was like this isn't
real money either.
It's just paper with a onedollar bill on it, but we trust
that it's money and that's allit is yeah but that's the same

(44:36):
thing with crypto is it's notreal money until you put your
trust and you know financiallyback it.
But the thing about crypto isthey can't just print more
Bitcoin.
There is a set number inexistence and nothing more Paper
currency you have.

(44:57):
Oh, we need more money and theyprint it more.
It becomes less valuable.
The thing about crypto is it'sthe, the leisure sorry my list,
but it is a blockchain of everysingle transaction that's ever

(45:21):
occurred on with bitcoin.
Some other cryptos are not aspublic about that because they
want to remain private, but ifyou're doing sleazy things with
crypto, you should be caught, Iguess oh yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
there's a lot of sleaziness, so I think again I'm
rehashing old round, but Ialways think it's good to go
back to this.
I talked to Mooney about it alot too.
There's a lot of scams andstuff in the space where it
makes it feel like everybodywho's in the space is a scumbag,
and it gave it a very badperception.

Speaker 2 (45:56):
You could say that with paper money too, you got
the billionaires that run taxevasion for a living.
You got people running stolenmoney through a legitimate means
.
They're laundering it.
I only know that because Iwatch Breaking Bad.

Speaker 1 (46:12):
But as we get all of the best information on how to
make crystal meth Breaking.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Bad.
The Breaking Bad is fairlylegitimate on how crime
organizations work while beingentertaining.
But yeah, so there's sleazystuff going on with all kinds of
money.
What's the difference?
If somebody's being sleazy withcrypto, people are sleazy.

(46:38):
You're not gonna magically cureit with a new currency.

Speaker 1 (46:43):
Yeah, during my time in the space I've been, I've
experienced a lot of hostility.
I've been I used to be in a lotof different discord servers
but have promptly been removedfrom them.
Oh, bummer yeah, but it's okay.
Um, it's, it's.
You know, I always say it comesdown to education.

(47:04):
Just learn more about things.

Speaker 2 (47:07):
Um yeah, but uh, you can't learn about every single
subject.
That's time consuming andtaxing.
Oh yeah, uh, I can't expect tolearn anything about cars.
I don't know anything about cars, but and I can't expect my
grandma to understand themagical world of crypto exchange

(47:27):
oh yeah, that's, I totally,that's why we live in a society,
you know, somebody else isgonna fix my car and I'm gonna
fix their computer, and that'skind of where our worth is at
yeah, my extent of cars is isthat they have wheels and they
drive and they make vroom vroomsounds.
That's all I know they makevroom, vroom sounds they make
vroom, I press pedal car goforward that is about right I

(47:53):
had to google what the l on mygear shift was.
I was like what is l for I?

Speaker 1 (47:59):
love that I, I, I know, with the cars coming out
now, a lot of it is like thedashboard and stuff is pretty
much all computers.
Now my parents want me to.
Oh, all right, I.
I've been with an individualwho has a flipper zero and it

(48:20):
was really fun to see the chaos.
Also, this, this is justinteresting because thelipper
Zero can mess with Teslas right,it can open up the charging
port and I've been into CVSswhere the individual used it and
caused the PA system to gocrazy.
I'm like it's interesting.
I don't know where I went onthat line.

(48:42):
I thought I was talking aboutcars and then I remembered the
Flipper Zero.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
I mean, the Fliipper zero is a fantastic subject.
Um see, the thing about theflipper zero is it's not new
technology, it's just incrediblyuser-friendly.
Any noob can pick up a flipperzero and play with things.
But it's just taking radiosignals and exploiting those.
I dabbled in a little bitrecently, the uh like starlink

(49:17):
radio signals and wi-fi fromspace.
A lot of that stuff isn'tencrypted because they expect
nobody to pick up the signals,so they that's a very big attack
vector it's not like that.
It's more like I can see whereyour internet traffic's been, or
stealing your neighbor's wi-fisignal.

(49:38):
That's uh, essentially the theabout that.
That's all it is.

Speaker 1 (49:46):
I think it's pretty funny.

Speaker 2 (49:47):
Critical vulnerability or anything.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
It's still pretty funny that it's like we don't
expect anybody to do this thing,so we're not going to worry
about it.
That's kind of funny.

Speaker 2 (49:56):
I mean the transceiver to pick up those
space signals is about $300 to$500, so there is a margin of
people that probably can't dothat yeah yeah, no, totally.

Speaker 1 (50:12):
It's a good point, though, and what you're saying?
It's just a flipper zero.
It's very easily consumerfront-facing, so it makes it.

Speaker 2 (50:18):
It's just like when phones happened right oh yeah,
did you see that they uh bannedthe flipper zero in canada?

Speaker 1 (50:24):
did they?

Speaker 2 (50:25):
no, I have not yeah, uh, they legitimately banned the
sale or usage of the device incanada you know what that's
gonna do?

Speaker 1 (50:33):
just gonna make people want it more.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
Yeah you're gonna drive down to us and pick one up
literally just gonna makepeople want them more yeah, but
I think the really dumb thingwas they said that the flipper
zero can steal teslas, andthey're like now we have to ban
the device, and so it's againjust older people not

(50:54):
understanding what they're doingyeah and banning a really fun
toy it's.

Speaker 1 (51:00):
It's a toy, basically yeah, it literally can't like
I've from the experience thatI've seen with it.
It doesn't have the capabilityto do anything overtly harmful
like you make a pa system saythere's a cleanup in aisle two,
or you open up a charging portand I'm not sure if it can do
anything outside of that butchildren throwing rocks at cars

(51:22):
oh yeah it's gonna do a littlebit of damage, but it's not
worth banning kids and rocksyeah, and it's not.
Your tesla door is not gonna toopen.
There was an episode of theDarknet Diaries where they were
talking about key fobs and therewas an exploit that someone had
I don't remember what brand ofcar, I think Honda's, I could be

(51:45):
wrong, kia's or Honda's one ofthe two when they could mess
with the radio signal from thekey fob and try to replicate it
and then just open your door,like they would capture the
signal between the key fob andto the door and replicate it on
their own and just open that.
That.
I mean that that's a little.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
That's a little bit more intimidating than opening
up your charging port yeah, Imean, if you get into somebody's
car, rather you pick the lockor you uh remote key fob in,
you've just lost yourvulnerabilities.
But it's infinitely less likelythat you're going to emulate a

(52:23):
key fob, open a door and thendrive off the car, mostly
because there's some innerworkings and most people have
those things hooked up to theirphones, so they'll be like your
car is driving off and they'relike why?
And then they'll shut it offwith their phone and it's like

(52:52):
so like it's completely helpingat all.
there there's a disconnectbetween the younger generation
that grew up with thistechnology and the older
generation that's just learningit oh, yeah, totally and so we
have to I honestly, we have toquit laughing at them even

(53:15):
though it's kind of funny whengrandma calls a timeshare a good
investment but we have to geton their level and educate them,
because if we're all safertogether and understand it just
a little bit, we'll stop gettingstupid laws that don't make any

(53:36):
sense and don't help and we'llstop you know all this.
Grandma got scammed for her lifesavings because she thought she
won a cruise, or I had a greatstory.
My boss I will not give hisname, but he is untech savvy to

(53:57):
the utmost extreme he wascalling what he thought was his
phone company and he gave hissocial security, credit card
information, driver's licensenumber, all the information that
you know phone companies don'tneed thinking that he was, you

(54:20):
know, paying his bills, becauseall he did was search phone
company xyz in google and pressthe first result, which was a
google ad, which anybody, yeah,can make a fake website
literally pay five dollars togoogle to have it on the top.
So he got to a fake phonecompany website, psa just never

(54:43):
click the ads.

Speaker 1 (54:44):
Everybody like literally I, I've not yeah, not
to side rail you, but literallyfor a lot of the software that I
use for my job there's there'sblatant ripoffs that have
different naming in the URL thatsays ad, because someone just
duplicated the website and thenpaid for it to be on top.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
That's not hard and if you can get some money or I
feel bad for the guy because youcan't really get a new social
security number.

Speaker 1 (55:16):
Yeah, those don't grow on trees.

Speaker 2 (55:18):
Yeah, Unless you can count the cardboard that it's
paid printed on.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
but that too yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:26):
Yeah, but the attack vector is so wide reaching and
you inherently trust Google,which you shouldn't.
You should never trust google.

Speaker 1 (55:36):
Google's dumb and a money money pit, that's what
they are unironically, Iactually have a google hoodie on
right now that I bought attheir headquarters when I went
to california.
Is there a microchip on here?
Are they listening?
Are they going to come?

Speaker 2 (55:49):
take me.
They're probably listening toeverything.
You're going to disappear nextweek.

Speaker 1 (55:53):
Sorry buddy it's game over.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
It's game over, oh but like uh, I still use google
chrome just because I like theway the search engine works.
But I also use brave and I knowthere's controversy against
brave.
It just depends on what I'msearching.
Do I want ads for this in thefuture?
If I'm searching scuba gear oramazon, I don't really care yeah

(56:19):
there's ads.
if I'm searching, I don't know,engagement rings or something a
little more private, then Idon't want ads popping up all
around the house.
I use brave, because it'llblock those trackers and I won't
get engagement ring ads, or,you know, because that'll blow
the secret or whatever.
Yeah, there was an issue withsome lady.

(56:42):
She Googled you know babydiapers, baby names, whatever,
because she was pregnant but shehadn't told her dad yet.
She hadn't told her dad yet andthen her dad suddenly saw uh,
you know baby diaper ads and itruined the surprise, which isn't
that bad, but it's kind of justannoying that you don't have
any privacy ever at all.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
Yeah, it's, it's quite literally like.
My favorite acronym is not,it's, it's, it's not um, if
you're going to get hacked orpopped, it's when you're going
to get hacked or popped becauseit's there's no security through
obscurity, so on and so forthyeah, I mean you can take back

(57:25):
your privacy, but it's moresteps than people would like to
do yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:31):
I have conversations with this all the time.
It's why would I care abouthiding if I have nothing to hide
?
I'm like it's not about hidingfrom the good guys, it's about
hiding from the bad guys.
Yeah, your dinner, yourinternet, uh, data is on the
internet, usually google orwherever, forever or until it

(57:53):
burns down in a fiery pit offire, but it's out there and
let's just use, like north koreaas an example.

Speaker 1 (58:08):
They really don't like freedom they do not like
freedom, that is, yeah, theydon't like freedom and everybody
knows that north korea is kindof weird.

Speaker 2 (58:18):
Like that they have the government blocks websites
that aren't approved by thenorth korean government.
You can't go watch rambo theterminator, the whatever western
media is what they call it.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
Or the Dictator.
They got really mad about thatone.

Speaker 2 (58:38):
Yeah, so you can't watch.
I think it was called theInterview, oh yeah, the
Interview.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
I'm having trouble for that one.
I'm glad you knew what I meant.
That makes me feel better.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
I love that movie.
It's fantastic.
But who's to say that in youknow 15 years, a couple of
presidential cycles, we don'tget that paranoid and start.
You know, you talk bad about A,B, C.

(59:11):
You're going to jail.
Bad about a b, c?
You're going to jail.
Uh, because you already havethat celebrities doing a twitter
post from like 10 years ago andthey're like I'm sorry, it was
a joke, or.
And then they get canceled andthey lose jobs yeah, canceling
there was a yeah, it's.

(59:33):
I don't want to say it's real,but it's also not fake it's just
not as intense that everybodymakes it fake.
Oh yeah, you have to besomebody before they'll cancel
you.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
So that's something there was a woman, I believe.
I just read and seen the story,um, of course, when I was doom
scrolling.
So take this with a grain ofsalt.
You never know if it's accurateor not, cause I didn't fact
check it myself, but there was a.
It was like uh, two people onTV, they were talking about like

(01:00:07):
um uh, freedom of speech, andthere beach, and there's this
woman.
Supposedly one of her friendsdied in some incident and this
lady posted some uh lyrics frommusic that I think was.
I don't remember the context ofthe music, but she actually she
got arrested, fined and gotlike 500 hours of community

(01:00:29):
service from posting some musiclyrics in the uk or england,
whatever they, whatever it'scalled now, ever since uh yeah,
um, I don't know about thatstory specifically, but it seems
super believable.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Even in the us that's pretty believable people
getting fined for I mean, I hada old co-worker that made a tikt
, a Facebook Reel or one ofthose short videos, whatever,
and he was doing it in his carwith the radio play and it
played some copyrighted music.

(01:01:02):
They cut his whole video offbecause it had copyrighted music
in the background, even thoughhe was filming the sunset or
whatever.
And so if they're listening toevery single lyric and then
using some, there's no persondoing that, there's an AI

(01:01:23):
listening to all your stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:01:28):
I just read about that Is anything free on the
speech, I guess.
Yeah, no, totally Like on PixelBay, where you can get royalty
free music and stuff for content.
There's specific tracks thatare highlighted.
Um, there's I.
I gosh, I'm so bad rememberingthis, but it's on the youtube,
like google has an algorithmwhere creators can mark their,

(01:01:49):
their, their content and if itgets hit anywhere on the
internet, like on youtube orwhatever, the creator can do
whatever they want with yourstuff, even if it's like royalty
free.
It's like instant, it's likeinstantaneous too, like even on
twitch vods.
I have spotify going in thebackground and it says
specifically like royalty free,copyright free, twitch just
automatically muses that stuff.
So it's pretty quick.

Speaker 2 (01:02:10):
Um yeah, and I know there's no way that human's
doing that.
It is a some robot on theirserver, so you're constantly
being monitored totally and youjust hope to the twitch gods
that you didn't mess up thistime yeah, I didn't breathe
incorrectly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
I remember back when I was in that crime society
class I, I, uh engage, I wouldreally like to engage in
conversation.
When I was in that crimesociety class, I, I uh engage, I
would really like to engage inconversation.
When I was in school, I waslike the only person of course,
everyone's like a nerd jokes onthem um I, everybody was aghast
when I said that the police havea direct line to tap into every

(01:02:48):
single ring doorbell.
If they want, they can justsubpoena ring and get like any
footage they want.
And they were like that's notprivate.
No, no, it's not and and therewas another funny instance too
um, I did talk to my brotherabout this.
It wasn't as big deal as Iinitially thought, but this this
is.

(01:03:08):
This is kind of a good exampleof don't get really hype about
things you read, because it'sprobably not as crazy as sounds.
But I seen a meme of someone Imight have sent it to you, I
don't remember.
I seen a meme of it was like asad patrick from spongebob and
the caption was like when the usmilitary accidentally leaves
classified military documents onamazon aws buckets that you can

(01:03:33):
just google and see oh yeah,that that was an issue yeah,
it's crazy, right, like so I Iguess it's not as big deal as I
thought, because I talked to mybrother, all that stuff and um,
but just the thought of havingclassified government
information on an aws bucketthat anybody can search for and

(01:03:55):
and the, the, the war um, war,the, the military airplane game,
war thunder, the war thundercommunity, somehow like this is
a situation of if I every time Idid this, I would have a penny,
I would have two pennies, butit's strange it happened twice.
Like two times they released,like classified military

(01:04:15):
documentation of of planes ondiscord servers.
I'm like how, how did you getthat?

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
like oh, dude, you're missing a whole bunch.
There's not only two times.
This is a notorious problem.
The war thunder community is souh crazy that it has a bunch of
ex-military dudes or currentmilitary dudes and they're like
that tank's not accurate or thatplane goes this fast and I'll

(01:04:42):
prove it.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
And then they'll leak classified military documents
and they're like see, the tankis this way it's really like you
guys are crazy it's reallymaking sure the opsec people in
the government are beingemployed because they have to go
through the internet to findthese stupid leaks somebody's
court-martialed yeah, no,there's.

(01:05:05):
I didn't know it was an actualjob until today again.
Um, there was a cyber securitychannel was recommended to me
and I was looking through theirshorts.
But the CIA has a job where youcan basically be an internet
stalker to find where there'sloopholes in information that's
being put out there.
Because there was thisinteresting thing that happened

(01:05:26):
a long time ago.
Somebody did some informationgathering and they were able to
guess when wars were going tostart, because the Pentagon had
a massive increase in pizzaorders and every time that
happened, some conflict startedand I'm like I think I saw that
exact same video.
That's amazing, the algorithmman, it's listening.

Speaker 2 (01:05:47):
Yeah, it's listening.
So, you want to know a supercool algorithm trick.
You take a buddy of yours, yougo to YouTube, twitter, tiktok
or whatever you're doing, andthen you scroll five videos and
you see the drastic differencebetween your videos and their
videos, because it's allhandpicked for you guys.

(01:06:10):
You might like cooking andboobs and you're like cyber
security and war.

Speaker 1 (01:06:17):
You know it's just your content feed is hand-picked
for what you want to see yeahwhich makes the whole idea of I
googled it really bad no, yeah,exactly, sometimes I think the
algorithm can read my brain,because I swear, there's times

(01:06:38):
where I don't even search forsomething like but it can.

Speaker 2 (01:06:41):
It's all listening to you, it's like it's crazy it's.
I remember, I hate alexa andthat google home.
It's all garbage because I talkabout oh, I would love to go to
hawaii.
You know I freaking see tripsto hawaii on sale.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
I'm like, shut up google it was really scary that,
like even when I explained howthe cops or the law enforcement
have a direct link to your ringif they want, how nobody knew
that and a lot of people have,like the crazy smart home stuff.
And have you ever watchedsilicon valley?

(01:07:15):
If you haven't, you it'sfucking hilarious no, I should
now but really funny.
I've watched that show like fourtimes.
It is the it's so on the nose,like um um, coding humor, cyber
security humor.
It's a really good sitcom, um,but there is a few episodes
where one of the characters gota smart fridge.

(01:07:37):
The character's name was uhJing Yang, there's, there's,
there's, it's.
He's really funny, um, but uh,the smart fridge long story
short was like listening to allof them talk and was logging all
of their uh, their, their,their conversations.
I'm like that.
That happens.

(01:07:58):
That's a thing that happens inreal life.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Oh yeah, I mean we're getting to that stage where
alexa can talk to my start, mysmart fridge, and uh, they're
like you need eggs.
Would you like to add it toyour Amazon?
Cart and then you'll just haveeggs delivered to your freaking
door.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
You literally just quoted word for word the exact
phrase the fridge said when theyopened up the door and they
were out of almond milk.
It's like, hmm, it seems likeyou're out of almond milk.
Would you like me to add someto your grocery list?

Speaker 2 (01:08:29):
Absolutely, and some people find that absolutely
amazing, and I kind of do too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:36):
It's just my fridge isn't even sacred anymore smart
watches, smart fridges, smartalarm systems, but all of those
things have to communicate withyour router or with the internet

(01:08:57):
just in general, so it has alink to the outside world of
hostility that can then go backto you.
So you're allowing more thingsto be breached, so you're kind
of opening up more ways to getscrewed over, like like.

Speaker 2 (01:09:08):
A smart fridge is awesome, but now it has to
communicate with the internetyeah, and I mean like I trust
amazon or google home toprobably update their stuff with
the latest security patch, butone that means it has outside
access in to give it thatsecurity patch automatically.

(01:09:30):
And then it, if you get likesome cheap knockoff, it's one
not going to get that securityupdate as frequently as I would
like.
And then it still has that.
You know, port open so you cantalk to my light bulbs or my

(01:09:50):
smart thermostat.
But then you have the pivotingaspect, so when I'm in your
smart ac system I can pivot backto your router.
I don't know put a man in themiddle attack yeah find out
everywhere you've been, or justshut off your router and change
the password.
I could do that too it adds somany men man-in-the-middle

(01:10:14):
possibilities.

Speaker 1 (01:10:15):
I'm glad you said that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:17):
Yeah, and that's one of the scariest things.
It's not like we're alreadyGoogle's the man-in-the-middle,
but there was a thing withTarget.
It's a semi-famous hack.
Reddit on TriHackMan, one ofthe pivoting classes they have,
is a semi-famous hack.
Uh, read it on.

(01:10:37):
Try hack me on one of thepivoting uh classes they have,
where some hackers got into thesmart AC system and then got in
and pivoted their way arounduntil they got to the card
readers and then just yoinkedabout 2 million cards that the
card readers had.
Every time somebody swiped itwas going back to the attackers.

Speaker 1 (01:10:56):
That's crazy, I never knew that.

Speaker 2 (01:10:57):
All through some smart system that they wanted to
have.
They're like it'd be so nice tocontrol the AC remotely, yeah
and so the internet of things isscary, but I I want it to move
forward, but I feel like peopleneed to pay attention, and not

(01:11:20):
people but companies.
They need to security patchtheir stuff.
There should be no remote codeexecution.
That should not be vulnerable,you know yeah, no, exactly, but
that's a really tall ask,because smaller companies aren't
going to have the manpower todo that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:41):
Larger companies don't care because they have
enough money to make the problemgo away no, it's speaking of uh
, rce and um, I want, I want totell this story first and then I
have a question I want to askyou.
So I went to pet smart a fewdays ago, um, just to get some
supplies and stuff and they havea, uh, a collar like machine

(01:12:05):
where you can um put in namesand have it like 3d.
Yeah, exactly, and that's inlike a dark corner of the pet
smart.
I went to and guess what'sdirectly next to it is it an atm
?
no, their server room.
Oh, and when I was there, thedoor was open, my man's logging

(01:12:28):
screen was open and the serverrack was right there and open
and I'm like that's why I keepusbs on me, literally like
literally, if I I could havejust walked, I could have
meandered my way in there, tookjust a nice little usb and just
wreaked havoc absolutely uh, butI mean that's kind of

(01:12:51):
circumstantial but still a superbad security practice exactly
exactly that goes down to, likewhere you're saying with the
education and understandingthese different things, because
I guarantee you not, I don't notas like a slight to anybody
that worked there, but Iguarantee you that never crossed
anybody's brains, like becausewho's gonna know that?
unless you're, like in the fieldtrying to learn about it.

Speaker 2 (01:13:13):
Because, like to the average day person it's like oh,
it's just a bunch of boxes yeah, if you lock the door, that's
already like a really good stepyeah not every, not every hacker
is going to know how to, youknow, pick a lock or want to, in
the broad daylight, in themiddle of a busy store and then
you uh, introduce the, the nextlevel.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Um, just buy to see if they really are on their game
.
Just buy a high res or a highvis vest, bring a clipboard and
a ladder and just say you haveto everybody, everybody listens
to a person with a high visthere.
You walk in there with so muchauthority.
It's literally confidence.
So I, like I love physicalpenetration testing.
I love the stories because halfof them always come down to

(01:13:54):
just buying a high, a highvisibility vest and walking in
the front door with the mostconfidence ever and talking to
the front desk and theyliterally give you everything.

Speaker 2 (01:14:02):
Oh man, so that's just like hard social
engineering.
And social engineering is justwhat like magicians do.
Magicians do slightest hand andsocial engineering.
They're like hey, look overhere, I'm gonna move the card
behind your back or whatever,and that if that was nefarious,
they'd suddenly have your walletand they'd show you a magic

(01:14:24):
card trick in the exchange foryour credit card yeah social
engineering is cool socialengineering is probably my most
uh interested part in all ofcyber security, and it's also
the most overlooked oh yeahbecause it's like I work here

(01:14:47):
now and they're like okay one ofthe weakest links in a lot of
people's security and companiesis literally people most of the
time people.
It's difficult and I would saywomen have an unfair advantage
in the social engineeringdepartment.
If you have a nefarious womanwho's not gonna hold the door

(01:15:09):
open for a nice lady with herhands full or something.
You know, literally yeah butthat's assuming they are trying
to get in unauthorized.
And but if they, if you'venever seen them before, just do
not hold the door open for them.
That's unless you know it's tothe store.

(01:15:29):
Hold it open for ladies yeah,start everywhere.

Speaker 1 (01:15:33):
Everyone starts slamming doors shut.

Speaker 2 (01:15:34):
No, I'm just kidding but yeah, I worked at like a
fred myers once and they had yougo through training and it was
you have to badge in don't don'thold the door for open for
anybody, and I was like that'spretty good security practice.
You know, good good on them.

Speaker 1 (01:15:53):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
But if I, you know, if I see this person every day,
I'm going to just hold the dooropen for them.
But then it goes into I didn'tknow, they were fired yesterday,
you know.
Yeah.
No, you don't know the wholestory.
You don't know what they'redoing.

Speaker 1 (01:16:08):
The um I.
I do have no-transcript, so Ihave two ways to do this.

(01:16:37):
I have it on my flash drive.
You can use it, or I have mylaptop and I'm so thankful I
never.
I never even made theconnection until after they said
it.

Speaker 2 (01:16:45):
I'm so thankful they said no because of security
reasons, and I looked at her.
I'm like thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:16:58):
Thank you for saying that.
Oh, you tested yourinterviewers.
Yeah, unintentionally, becausewhen I said that I was like wow
Light bulb, I wasn't evenattempting to do it, but if I
was malicious you could stillhave it.
Be like a normal flash drive.

Speaker 2 (01:17:15):
They put it in and your videos load up but you can
have something in the backgroundthat just goes into their
computer and they won't evenknow it.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
Uh, that's a brings me a prettygood story about bad usbs and
people that shouldn't trust them.
I was going through the airportand I have a big, bulky
computer case that istechnically a gun case because I
don't trust airlines to notthrow my stuff around.
Um, but inside there I have,you know, the wi-fi pineapple,

(01:17:39):
the omg cable, the bad usbrubber ducky bunch stuff.
And then I have a note on itevery time I go through the
airport because I know they'regonna open it and and I say this
is malware, don't plug it in.
And it's not actually malware,I'm just testing TSA because

(01:17:59):
they're dummies.
They plugged in the USB and itphoned home and I told their
boss and I said, hey, one ofyour TSA agents at this airport
plugged in my USB to a computeron york and here's the ping and
I screenshotted the ping on my,my home server.

(01:18:19):
They phoned home.
I have remote access if Iwanted to that's why I hope
somebody was fired yeah, no,that's especially that
infrastructure.
It's crazy yeah, the, I don'tknow.
I trust that an airport shouldbe some of the most secure
things, especially since, likemost airplanes, have an
autopilot of some sort oh yeahuh, that would be really bad if

(01:18:43):
some.
I don't know if it's evenpossible, but it would be bad if
something happened to theremote systems on an airplane
it's kind of like um seeingneedles on the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
Never just pick up a usb, don't, don't experiment to
find out what's on it, unlessyou're in like an isolated
environment oh, I have becomethe guy that opens the spam
emails and hopes that somethinginteresting pings on the
underside.

Speaker 2 (01:19:12):
I've found some really good ones and some really
not so good ones.
Uh, I found one that lookedalmost exactly like a bank login
.
The only reason I didn't trustit is because I don't have that
bank.
But if I did have that bank I'dbe pretty convinced, because it
was like blank and blank bank,dot tech, not, not dot com,

(01:19:33):
which is the actual one.
So it was really close.
It was dot tech instead of dotcom, which would make you think
it was still the officialwebsite, and they just wanted
you to log in, which was yourbank account, you know login
info, which they would have justtaken.
But fantastic, kudos on them.
They tried hard, yeah awesome,um do?

Speaker 1 (01:19:57):
I don't know if this is going to be a question you're
able to answer, but I justfigured it seems fun so I'm
gonna throw it out there.
Do you have any like stories oftests that you've done that
you're allowed to disclose, ofanything interesting that's
happened?

Speaker 2 (01:20:10):
uh, can you describe test or?

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
just like like with um, just like penetration
testing, like when you'relearning has anything
interesting happened that you'reable to talk about?

Speaker 2 (01:20:21):
I accidentally sorta accidentally got into a spam
guy's uh command and controlcenter.
I don't know if you're familiarwith that, what that is.
Yeah, uh, so it's where theybut for the audience at home.

Speaker 1 (01:20:41):
Feel free to explain yeah, absolutely so.

Speaker 2 (01:20:46):
What bad guys will usually do is they'll send out
hundreds of thousands ofmillions of emails and just hope
that something catches.
It's a spray and pray techniqueand, me being the reverse
engineer that I can be, openedthis spam email, uh, and mapped

(01:21:09):
in and then found a port that isnot usually open, uh reverse
engineered into it, got in totheir command and control center
and they had quite a few uhbots, which are just computers

(01:21:31):
that have been infected with amalware, to do something on a
later date botnets op yeah,botnets are op but uh,
technically it's illegal to dothat.
But I don't think they'd have acase in court.
So like he took down my botnetand I was like you're not
supposed to have that, thatwould be interesting court case.
I'm pretty sure the judge wouldbe like what down my botnet and

(01:21:51):
I was like you're not supposedto have that that would be
interesting court case, I'mpretty sure the judge would be
like what's a botnet does thatsound?
that's an ice cream flavor orsomething yeah, it's an ice
cream flavor.
It's really yummy, uh.
So I took uh it upon myself todisconnect all the bots.

(01:22:11):
I just gave him a kill code andall the bots died.
Very noble so nobody wasconnected anymore.

Speaker 1 (01:22:19):
Yeah, no, that's very awesome.

Speaker 2 (01:22:21):
White hat hacking Very upset White hat hacking
superheroes.

Speaker 1 (01:22:31):
Oops, sorry, what was ?

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
that.
Oh, a couple days later heapparently found my IP address
that I went through and we had alittle back and forth
conversation about that and thatwas pretty chill, dude.
Honestly, he did some illegalshit, but he's like yo bro,
how'd you do that?
I was like you know this?
I don't want to get into thetechnical side of it, but it was

(01:22:54):
pretty.
We just had a long conversationabout, uh, hacking.
After that it was weird he sentme just some dark web websites.

Speaker 1 (01:23:05):
You know, dot onions have you ever been on the uh,
the dark web before?

Speaker 2 (01:23:10):
yeah, I take the proper precautions and I peruse.
Remember there's nothingillegal about looking.
Yeah, usually it depends onwhat you're looking at.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
I'm too much of a I won't say the bad word, but I'm
too much of a wimp to do itAgain.
It's kind of like the dark netdiary stories and other horror
stories that I'm always afraidthat like I'm, if I ever do it
just to look and experience it,that I'm gonna get killed by

(01:23:42):
like a russian assassin orsomething it's a russian.

Speaker 2 (01:23:46):
It's always a russian guy.

Speaker 1 (01:23:47):
I don't know why yeah , it's always a russian guy
they're the scariest, I'd say.

Speaker 2 (01:23:52):
But yeah I mean I totally lost my train of thought
.

Speaker 1 (01:23:57):
But that's okay.
I keep, I keep butting it, holycrap.

Speaker 2 (01:24:01):
Wow, we're almost at an hour and a half already well,
if you want to call it, and wecan do a part two and it's a
date I would love to do part two, but I do.

Speaker 1 (01:24:10):
I'll make sure to put that on my notes that you're
down for part two, um we can doa cooking one later exactly.
So I'll save the cookingquestions for next time, because
that's good, because I wasgoing to ask you a few, but I
think that could be interestingfor another episode.
I'm glad this was cybersecurity, because I've been
meaning to get a cyber securityepisode.
Um, I guess I'll end it withtwo questions.

(01:24:32):
The first one is just a normalquestion.
The second one is one that'sgoing to put you on the spot in
not a bad way, but in a criticalthinking way that my brother
likes to do for his and italways makes people clam up for
a second.
So for people who are wanting toget into cybersecurity and kind
of learn it, coming fromsomebody who has been doing
fantastic like I love listeningto you talk about it and like

(01:24:54):
telling me things because I canlearn from you, because you're
significantly further ahead inthe self-teaching stuff, like I
keep taking long breaks and Ireally need to get back to it
but from someone who has prettyefficiently taught themselves
this stuff, what do yourecommend for people who want to
learn more about it or hesitantto like?
What do you recommend peoplewho want to learn more about it
or hesitant to like?

Speaker 2 (01:25:13):
what do you recommend ?
I would recommend try hack meas a beginner.
It is, they're very beginnerfriendly and they show you red
teaming, blue teaming and thensome networking there.
I think $15 a month, but that'stotally worth it, for it's

(01:25:38):
cheaper than college and thenyou can find your own what you
prefer in the cybersecurityuniverse, because there's so
many options.
And then you can move on fromthere.
But yeah, definitely try HackMeas a beginner-friendly website.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
I love how defined the different career paths are
in cybersecurity and justsecurity in general, like I've
dabbled in a lot of it.
Like for writing, it's not aslike being a writer, it's not as
defined.
But in cybersecurity security,like oh, do you want to be red
team or offensive security, youcan go this way.

(01:26:17):
You want to be blue defensive?
You can go down this way.
Like sock analysis, just all ofthat you can go down this path.
You want to be penetrated, likephysical penetration, like
there's.
All of the different ways youcan go are so neatly defined
that it feels like and you haveyour certifications in each one.
So it's like a nice roadmap forwhat you want to do yeah,

(01:26:38):
absolutely, but uh, there's justso many options.

Speaker 2 (01:26:41):
There's probably an uh, a niche for every.
You can, yeah, work hardeningas a defensive person.
You can do social engineeringtechniques.
Whatever your skillset is, youwill find it in a cyber security
outlook.

Speaker 1 (01:27:02):
Totally Awesome.
Yeah, Try Hackney's greatresource Awesome.
All right For my final question.
You don't have to have ananswer.
If you don't have it, it'scompletely okay.
No-transcript.

Speaker 2 (01:27:30):
Words of wisdom Privacy isn't dead.

Speaker 1 (01:27:30):
You just have to take it back.
Awesome, I love that Very epic.
Thank you.
I really appreciate your timenight.
I'm looking forward to doinganother episode with you about
cooking and probably more nerdytech stuff, cause we're just
geeks like that.

Speaker 2 (01:27:46):
This was super fun.
You can invite me back anytimeyou want.

Speaker 1 (01:27:49):
Awesome, I appreciate it.
So thank you everybody for forlistening.
It was another great episodeand I oh, do you have any plugs
or anything?
Anywhere people can find you ifthey want to find you.

Speaker 2 (01:28:01):
Uh, night fire on YouTube If you want to watch my
gaming nonsense with my buddies.
But that's about it.
I try and stay off a ton ofsocial medias.

Speaker 1 (01:28:10):
I don't blame you.
I literally only stay on it formy streaming and my job.
But thank you everybody forwatching and I will see you in
the next one.
Bye.