March 30, 2024 • 68 mins
I started this podcast to show off the absolute gems of humans I get to tattoo and interact with on a regular basis. I am a very very very lucky person.
Karin is one of those people. I have been tattooing big gorgeous detailed artful realistic flowers on her for about two years. Our conversations range from the personal/political to the intimately personal, to food, to clothes, but mostly how to be a decent person in this world.
In this interview we talk about what being basic means, and also alternative, how hard it is for those of us raised with little attention to our needs to stand out as adults, to receive attention. I ask Karin why she, at fifty, decided to start covering her body with big gorgeous florals, how it has changed her self perception, and also what other parts of life have been making her happy lately.
We are sweet and funny and quippy, and it will give your good vibes if you listen in.
You can connect with me, Micah Riot, as well as see my tattoo art on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/micahriot/
Micah's website is www.micahriot.com
The podcast is hosted on Buzzsprout but truly lives in the heart of Micah's website at:
https://www.micahriot.com/ink-medicine-podcast/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Micah Riot (00:00):
Hey, Micah Riott here.
So you know how I started thispodcast to showcase how amazing
and beautiful and fascinatingand lovely people I get to
tattoo are.
Today is a prime example ofthat.
Karen Riley is really one ofthe most kind humans I've ever
met, ever met, and I just feelso lucky that I get to tattoo
(00:28):
her, that she's given me so muchfreedom to help her come more
inside her skin, to own her body, to love her body.
I really feel honored to bepart of her process around this
and to be given so much freedomand so much trust and I'm really
excited for all of you to meether.
Much freedom and so much trust,and I'm really excited for all
of you to meet her.
Quick content warning we talk alittle bit about childhood
(00:50):
trauma not a ton, not in detail,but it's there and we also
mention working with peopleliving with HIV and AIDS, as
well as domestic violence andsubstance abuse Again not in
detail, but we mention thosethings and with that I hope you
enjoy this episode as much as Ienjoyed making it for you.
Karin Riley (01:15):
It's easier to talk when I'm not on the table being
stabbed.
Micah Riot (01:19):
That's very fair.
Are you sitting on the floor?
Karin Riley (01:21):
I am sitting on the floor because the couch in here
is leather and I was afraidthat if I moved it would make
leather fart noises, so I'msitting on the floor.
Micah Riot (01:32):
You might be the most thoughtful guest I've ever
had, so will you pleaseintroduce yourself your name
(02:16):
your pronouns your, I don't knowwhat else your location, your
age and your go-to breakfast.
Karin Riley (02:24):
My name is Karin I use she her pronouns.
I am located in Bayview in SanFrancisco and I am a few weeks
away from turning 52.
I don't have a go-to breakfastitem that I eat all the time.
Recently I've been havinggluten-free sourdough bread
(02:49):
because I took a cooking classwhere we made sourdough bread
and that's been good becauseI've been experimenting with the
recipe and trying new things.
Micah Riot (03:00):
How is the bread?
Is it delicious?
Karin Riley (03:03):
It's not delicious.
Micah Riot (03:05):
It does the job, but it's not quite as delicious as
you'd like the texture is reallygood, which is not normally
what people say about free bread.
Karin Riley (03:15):
So the texture is really good, and I am enjoying
eating bread that has a reallycrisp crust on it.
It's chewy, crisp crust on it,it's chewy.
I'm still playing with theflavor, though, because the the
blend of flowers that I'm usingright now isn't quite up to what
(03:35):
I would like it to be you knowwhat texture is like half the
battle, right, it is.
Micah Riot (03:40):
I feel like it's like more, even more important,
because you know what you can doto the flavor.
Let's put this on it Chilicrisps.
Yum, I've discovered thismagical category of food and
this might be my favorite brand.
Do you know this stuff?
I do.
Okay, it's apparently just mewho, like, wasn't familiar.
Karin Riley (04:03):
Yeah, it is.
It's good stuff.
I haven't tried it on bread,which sounds silly.
Micah Riot (04:09):
Yeah, like grown it everything.
But for people who are justlistening and not watching, what
I was showing was a jar of abrand that comes from Japan
called Musso, and it's umamiblack garlic chili crisps, which
is just like a topping that Iput on literally everything, and
(04:31):
it's consists of sesame oil,onion, seaweed, shiitake,
mushroom, garlic, sesame seeds,sea salt, chili pepper, sugar,
tamari, soy sauce, um, someother things smaller, you know
quantities, but essentially it'sjust like a flavor bomb, and
I've also gotten excited abouttrying to make it myself, which
(04:52):
I haven't for a while, but tolike, take the sugar out of it
yeah, yeah, there are a lot ofdifferent.
Karin Riley (04:59):
You know this about me, right, I'm such a nerd, but
there are a lot of differentcultural variations.
In spicy pepper sauces, right,everyone has something.
Um, and I know some from themiddle east use nuts sugar, so
that might be an option too Iwould collect this shit like I
would literally collect it fromall over the world.
Micah Riot (05:20):
I love it and I also totally and I didn't realize
that I liked spice as much as Ido.
I feel like maybe now I couldget into ruts with my food, you
know, and I'll be like okay, I'mhaving my chicken breast that I
roasted with my vegetable andit's like fine, but I just want
there to be like a kick and likean experience in my mouth and
(05:41):
I'm so like, ah, chicken breastagain, you know.
Karin Riley (05:44):
Yeah.
Micah Riot (05:45):
But like it's what makes me feel good, so that's
what I eat.
But then I want like anexperience.
Karin Riley (05:49):
Yeah, I don't think it's a rut.
I think you totally nailed itwhen you said it makes you feel
good.
That's not a rut, that's takingcare of yourself.
Micah Riot (05:56):
Yeah, but like you know, just in like the flavor
sense of it, I get into thiskind of like oh it's so boring,
yeah, so, yeah, yeah, you have alot of.
So you, you've been gettingtattooed by me for now what two
years.
Karin Riley (06:15):
I think that's right.
I didn't look back to see whenour first appointment was, but
it seems like it's about twoyears, because I remember my
interview and that was over theholidays.
It was probably November orDecember.
Yeah, so it would have been twoyears.
Micah Riot (06:34):
I love that you're calling it an interview.
Can you tell me more about whyyou're calling it an interview
instead of a consultation?
Karin Riley (06:39):
I.
So I was.
I was laughing at myselfbecause I was thinking back to
some of the podcasts that I'velistened to, some of your
podcasts, and you were talkingabout the intake questionnaire
that you do, or you used to do,with your clients and you said
something about you know somepeople write a book, and I
(07:01):
thought, oh, that's me.
I took it really seriously andI do take things like that
seriously.
You know being considerate ofother people and you know what
do you do in your localcommunity, and that's huge for
me.
It's one of the things I likebest about being in San
(07:24):
Francisco and being in the BayArea is that there is such an
opportunity to make a differenceimmediately, locally, right In
my neighborhood, in my city, inthe Bay Area.
So I did think of thatconversation, that first
conversation we had as aninterview.
Micah Riot (07:43):
Who was interviewing whom conversation we had as an
interview.
Karin Riley (07:46):
Who was interviewing whom?
You were interviewing me.
I had already seen your work.
I already knew that I likedyour work.
I knew what I wanted to get outof it, um, but I didn't know if
I would be somebody that rightCause, again referring back to
your, your other podcasts I'mthat middle-aged white lady
right and literally named Karen.
There is nothing about me thatis, you know, outside of the
(08:14):
average everyday person from theoutside.
So I did take it reallyseriously.
Micah Riot (08:22):
I think it's so interesting how the most
beautiful people humblethemselves, you know, to like
this, this sort of like thelabels of like well, I'm white
and I'm my name is this, andlike, like Liz does this, you do
this Like, but I hear Liz dothis, right, like her name is
(08:43):
Liz Williams, like the mostcommon name in the world, in
America, and she would just belike, well, I'm just like this
basic average girl and I'm justlike, no, you're not.
And also like what does thatmean?
So I hear you say that.
Actually, a fair amount.
It's funny.
I think you guys would likelove each other, I'm sure we
would?
Karin Riley (09:03):
I'm sure we would.
And do you know that my maidenname is Johnson?
Oh yeah, so lucky truly.
And it's all about perception.
Right From the outside, I'm anaverage middle aged white lady,
and if I introduced myself tosomeone by name, it's not going
(09:24):
to identify me as anything butan average middle-aged white
lady.
But it's like what that's okay.
That's that's where you findthe people who you're supposed
to spend time with, because theydo go deeper than what you look
like on the outside and whatyour name is.
Right that that's where youfind the people who become part
of your circles.
(09:44):
But yeah, I'm very aware thaton the outside I just look like
a, an average person and that'sokay.
Micah Riot (09:54):
And you know, what's funny is that when I was
younger and like more in thescene, like in the queer scene,
where I would go to places andsee people, which I don't do
anymore but people would be likeyou look familiar and I'd be
like I just look like a genericqueer person.
Karin Riley (10:08):
Yeah great, I look like an average middle-aged
white lady.
Micah Riot (10:12):
And I think we all think that about ourselves.
We just look like some genericqueer person, some generic white
lady, some colored hair punkrock girl, Like it's not,
there's.
No, I don't.
I think we all think that aboutourselves.
Karin Riley (10:28):
Yeah, probably, and I I know I spent a lot of time
as a teenager and as a a youngeradult trying to stand out in
different points in time in mylife and that was so
uncomfortable for me, I didn'tlike.
I didn't like attractingattention that way.
(10:49):
So I am totally cool with notnot standing out.
Micah Riot (10:57):
Does that sound weird?
No, I'm trying to ask you aquestion about that in a way
that makes sense.
So how did you try to stand outbefore, when you were younger?
What did you try?
Karin Riley (11:11):
into.
I've always been very intomusic and when I was 13, 14,
15-ish maybe not that old, maybeit was 12, 15, 14, whatever it
(11:35):
was I was very into kind of thealternative scene.
It wasn't punk, because where Ilived there wasn't a huge punk
scene, but I had a mullet right,it wasn't called a mullet at
(11:57):
that point, but it was spikedand I had a mullet and I very
much dressed androgynously witha lot of makeup and and usually
in one color palette.
I would do like really heavypink makeup one day, or really
heavy purple makeup, and I didnot fit in with the other folks
(12:21):
my age, which was also okay atthe time.
Micah Riot (12:24):
Are there photos of this?
Karin Riley (12:27):
I don't know.
I don't actually have a lot ofphotos anymore.
That's not something I hold onto.
That's not stuff that I keep.
It was.
It was also not an easy pointin time in my life, so there's a
lot of stuff I just haven'theld on to.
Micah Riot (12:44):
Yeah, I would have loved to see a picture of Karen
bright pink makeup with a spikedlike like mullet and like tight
jeans and I don't know kind ofandrogynous out like that sounds
.
That sounds amazing, I feellike.
I feel like this is somethingyou could pull off now.
Karin Riley (13:05):
I totally would you .
You know, that's my comfortoutfit too bright pink makeup.
Yeah, yeah, all the bright pinkbard makeup across the eyes.
No but the the casual, loose,comfortable clothes.
Micah Riot (13:22):
I'm thinking more like punk rock, like 80s.
I know you said it wasn't punk,it was more alternative.
But I'm thinking like the torn,torn jeans, like the rock, the
rockers, the like yeah, morelike the british yes style.
That's kind of what I'mthinking about.
I don't know if that yeah ittotally is.
Karin Riley (13:42):
It, totally is, yeah.
Yeah, I saw David Bowie washuge on my list.
I somehow managed to see himmultiple times as a teenager
with no car and no money.
It's amazing, it really was.
I pulled off some really goodstuff somehow and made it
through it through.
Micah Riot (14:09):
So that thing about attention getting um, you didn't
like being in the center ofattention, you didn't like
people paying attention to you.
So when did that?
When did you shift like yourlook, you know from maybe being
and I think that when you wereyounger, like, dressing that way
can also be a way of likeputting a wall up right, like
don't come to me like I'mintimidating, don't talk to me
like I'm scary and I'm different, and so.
(14:30):
But then that shifts into beingmore of like, uh, I'm just
gonna dress to look moreinvisible.
So when do you think thatshifted?
Karin Riley (14:39):
I think I always shifted my appearance based on
the people I was friends withand where I was living.
It took me a long time tofigure out who I was
independently.
I think I'm still figuring itout, figuring it out.
(15:11):
So for a long time in college Idated someone who was in the
Navy.
So I was very much the likeprim and proper and white heels
and that kind of thing, whichwas highly entertaining.
It was a very big shift.
And then in the late nineties,early 90s actually, and through
the 90s it was very much grunge,you know, and big flannel
(15:38):
shirts.
And then I got a air quote,proper job, and needed to dress
for work in a way that didn'tcause trouble.
So it was navy blue skirts andbutton-down shirts and pantyhose
(15:58):
and all that kind of stuff.
I don't even think I ownpantyhose anymore and I
definitely don't have any pencilskirts left, because you're in
the Bay now, cause I'm in theBay now.
Micah Riot (16:09):
Yeah.
Karin Riley (16:11):
That would be standing out tremendously to
wear anything like that.
But yeah, and I think a lot ofit was trying, as you said,
trying to put up a wall when Iwas a teenager and then trying
to fit in so that I didn't drawattention, because that was
never a safe thing to do.
You know, I've realized thatthere was a lot of um, there
(16:36):
were a lot of times when it justwasn't safe for me to bring
attention to myself as a kid, asa young adult, so I didn't
myself as a kid, as a youngadult, so I didn't.
Micah Riot (16:49):
It's something I talked about with my therapist
yesterday.
Actually, this topic and Ithink she said that felt very
new way to put it is we weretalking.
She was telling me how, whenthe child grows up with
caretakers that put their ownneeds before the child's needs,
(17:12):
it's really hard for the childto then grow up and receive
attention from people that lovethem and really be able to
receive it, because you alwaysthink that any attention coming
in to your sphere means that youhave to then take care of other
people's needs.
Karin Riley (17:25):
Interesting.
Yeah, I can.
I can see that in my case itwas not safe.
My father was an inconsistentlytreated bipolar and at the time
it was called manic depressionand that was a really good
description for what he did andhow that affected the rest of us
(17:46):
.
And so if you didn't drawattention, you wouldn't be the
target of anything that washappening.
And yes, I absolutely agreewith you that when you have
inconsistent parenting or aninconsistent household right, I
don't think this is justparenting but if you're a child
(18:07):
in a household where your needsare not taken care of, where you
have to learn to be independent, it is very hard to get
attention from anyone elsebecause it's not a safe thing.
It makes things very uneven,very unstable.
Micah Riot (18:22):
Yeah, yes, and it was the way that she
specifically put it.
Like other people, when theycome closer, it feels like it's
all about their needs, even ifit's not you know, and so you as
an adult, like you, still kindof function that way of like I
can't like this is overwhelmingright, like getting attention.
Karin Riley (18:45):
And that's still true.
Micah Riot (18:46):
Yeah.
Karin Riley (18:47):
Yeah, a lot of, a lot of things happening or being
the center of attention.
It's just hard because it'sunfamiliar.
I don't know that it will evergo away.
You know, as much as I work onit, as much as my therapist
tells me I'm doing a great job.
It's just it's it's it's alifelong thing, right, it
(19:07):
changes who you are and howyou're wired as a person.
Micah Riot (19:11):
Yes, and it, I mean it also, you know.
However, whatever our trauma is, it carries gifts too, you know
.
it also makes us more perceptive, more considerate, more caring,
like in different ways, moreable to connect in certain ways
right, even if some parts ofconnection are difficult, like
receiving.
But so you know, for me thissort of sense of being at the
(19:34):
center of attention is bad andscary.
As I get older it feels likeit's translating more and more
into the way that I look, Alsoso much about what I do to my,
to my skin, but more like Ican't have a bright, colorful
hair because people will commenton it and it just feels like
why would I bother?
You know, for example, not thatI want to have colorful hair if
(19:57):
I did, I'd have it.
But when I've had hairstylistssuggest color, I'd be like can't
pull it off, it's too much, youknow, and inside I'm going.
If I had bright blue hair,people would like comment on it
and I'd be like I don't want totalk to you about it you know,
so it kind of like translates tothat too, and so I think that I
can then translate to tattoosas well.
(20:18):
It's like here we're getting thetopic of tattoos.
I'm so I mean what I you know,and so I mean what I'm asking is
like, does that feel relevantto you?
Like I mean, you started to gettattoos recently, right?
Like you're turning 52.
So it's the second half of yourlife.
You're clearly very excitedabout them and passionate about
(20:41):
them, and so does that feelrelevant to this topic we're
talking about of like how tocenter yourself in your own life
, or attention and the physicalmarks of sort of like right
their attention, getting thingslike maybe not when you go to
work every day, but if you wentto the beach and you wear a
bikini, people will be like hey,you've got flowers all over you
(21:02):
right, yeah, it, it is relevantbecause I have I've had one
tattoo for several decades,right, and that was a reminder
tattoo.
Karin Riley (21:14):
That was kind of not necessarily a memorial
tattoo, but it was a remindertattoo, and these, the flowers
that you are doing for me, areall about me, right, it is.
It's a celebration of the goodthings in my life and it's funny
that you say go to the beach.
We were on vacation last weekwith my husband's family and my
(21:39):
sister-in-law.
I hope I don't cry when I saythis.
My sister-in-law took a pictureof me in my bathing suit and
showed me later.
I didn't know that she had takenit and she showed me later and
she said I want you to see howbeautiful your tattoos are in
(22:01):
your bathing suit.
She said that is so gorgeous inyour bathing suit.
She said that is so gorgeous.
And it was such an affirmingthing to hear, because I don't
(22:21):
talk about what I'm doing withmy body.
They're for me and they hadn'tseen them.
And so to have her say this isabsolutely gorgeous and I want
you to see what it looks likefrom someone else's perspective,
just felt like it was one ofthe nicest things I've heard
(22:46):
from anyone ever.
Micah Riot (22:49):
So, yeah, how did that attention feel?
Like somebody noticed your bodyand noticed how you look and
like that's a lot.
Karin Riley (22:59):
It is.
I think the attention didn'tbother me because I didn't know
what was happening when it washappening, which makes it sound
a little creepy, but I was finewith it in that context and I
don't know if it's because ofwho it came from or whether it's
(23:19):
because I'm getting better atmanaging that she sounds like a
loving person.
Micah Riot (23:24):
sister-in-law.
Karin Riley (23:25):
I am so fortunate my chosen family, my chosen
friends, the people in mycircles.
I have realized I have veryintentionally surrounded myself
with people who are just amazing.
I have some really amazingfriends and chosen family.
(23:46):
I'm extremely fortunate in thatway and count you among those
people.
Micah Riot (23:55):
So I'm crying from your story as well.
Is this a picture you'rewilling to share with me?
Karin Riley (24:04):
Yes, If I have it.
I don't know if she sent it tome.
She might have it on her phone,but yes, I will ask her to send
it to me.
I'm going to send it over.
Micah Riot (24:12):
And were you, besides like feeling kind of
like loved in that moment?
Did you look at the picture andgo, yes, I do look beautiful.
Karin Riley (24:22):
I do, and you and I talk about that a lot.
Right, that's something that wetalk about every time I'm on
your table.
And I did.
I looked at the picture and Ican see the muscle definition
coming back in my arms and in myback.
Yeah, right.
Micah Riot (24:43):
I just made a face like really Okay.
Karin Riley (24:57):
And it was just.
You know, I think when you canrecognize that people are in
their authentic selves, it's abig deal.
And it was neat to see it fromsomeone else's perspective in me
, because I did see it andthat's not something I have
always seen in pictures ofmyself.
So to see myself relaxed andhaving a conversation and have
(25:19):
someone else tell me that, it'sa really beautiful thing.
Again, it was just superaffirming it was.
I talked about that in therapythis week and then I looked at
my calendar to see when you andI have our next appointment.
Micah Riot (25:33):
So you could tell me about it?
Karin Riley (25:35):
Just so I could tell you about it and so that I
could get more right.
More make it bigger.
Micah Riot (25:43):
Make it bigger.
Yes, let's do more.
Um, how did you come to thepoint where you decided it was
time and then, when you decidedit was the time, it was for
flowers for that many and thatmuch like?
How did you come to that forthat many and that much?
Karin Riley (26:07):
Like how did you come to that?
That's a really good question.
I didn't come to the decisionof doing the whole my whole
torso until last fall, when youand I discussed it.
(26:28):
Prior to that, I had decided Iwanted or needed reminders of
the good people and the goodthings that had happened in my
life and for me.
I'm very location oriented andwhen I think about the places
(26:53):
where I was happy, where thingswere good, one of the things I
see in my mind are the plantsand the flowers that were there,
and that's how I wanted tomemorialize that on my body.
Micah Riot (27:15):
It's a place you feel at peace.
Karin Riley (27:17):
Yeah, and why not literally carry that with me, in
a way that it was very presentfor me, not just a memory that I
could pull up in my head, but avisible touchstone on my body.
Micah Riot (27:34):
And from my experience of doing florals are
a common theme in tattooing andit's probably something I would
say out of all the work I'vedone, probably have 75% have
been something to do with plants.
But most people when they comewith a request for plants they
go okay, I have these fiveplants that I want.
Here's the amount of space I'mgiving you for it.
(27:57):
You know, make it work Like,make a little bouquet, a little
vignette, something happen likethat.
And you didn't do that.
You were kind of like I didn'teven know what you said, because
it's hard for me to rememberwhat people ask for, because I
only can see what we came upwith and the process sort of
gets lost, almost like from whatyou came with to the vision.
(28:20):
Now it's really hard for me tolike bridge that in my mind,
cause I just it doesn't evenexist to me anymore, like what
asked for.
So what did you ask?
Karin Riley (28:28):
for I don't.
I don't remember what Ioriginally asked for either,
because we've talked about it somuch and it's changed so much
in the past two years.
Right, instead of doing and no,I'm not a bouquet person I am
not a bouquet person in my life,when I had a house that had a
yard and gardens, they werecrazy gardens.
Right, they were cottagegardens, with things pouring out
(28:50):
of the flower beds.
That's what's beautiful to me.
Right Is the abundance and theoverwhelming contained space.
That, to me, that's living.
Right, and maybe that goes backto my childhood.
I don't know, I haven'tanalyzed that.
(29:11):
It doesn't matter, but thatwhat we talked about has changed
over time and when, when wehave put something on my body
the placement, the color, theresponse that other people have
(29:34):
had to it my husband loves them,right, I love them.
My friends who have seen themabsolutely think they're
gorgeous.
Every single person asks who didthem?
Right, like that to me is areally big deal.
It's not just oh, that's areally cool tattoo.
It's like oh, my God, who didyour tattoo?
Where is that from and why?
(29:57):
Would I not want more of that?
You know, if it makes me feelgood and it makes me like the
way my body looks even more.
Me like the way my body lookseven more.
Why not?
It's the same reason when I wasworking out five days a week
(30:19):
that I worked out.
I love the way I looked, I lovethe way that I moved, I love
the way that it made me feelabout myself.
Micah Riot (30:28):
So if tattoos can do that, heck yeah yeah, that's
fair, but that's not what mostpeople do, you know, and so
that's like another way thatyou're not so basic after all I
was gonna say that's okay peopleright, not so basic after all,
um, but yeah, like you reallyhave sort of given well, given
(30:49):
me a lot of space and scope towork with um, but also yourself,
you know, I don't.
I think when people limitthemselves to like, you know,
here's, I just want it this bigand I want it over here and it
has to just be contained in thatspace.
You know it's not me, they'relimiting, it's themselves.
Yeah, right, and so I try totalk them out of it sometimes,
(31:10):
like, well, if you kind of letit grow more organically, it's
going to be more pretty, it'sgoing to belong on your body
more.
But people have a reallycertain idea.
Like tattoos are okay as longas they're, you know, this big
and take up this much space anddon't take over, and aren't you
know too?
Take up this much space anddon't take over, and aren't you
(31:31):
know too?
Karin Riley (31:31):
Nobody can see it through my work shirt.
It's not going to show up ifI'm wearing a tank top, For sure
.
Yeah, when are you even doingit?
Yeah, why I?
Just that's not.
Again, it's just not who I am.
And when I look at myself whenI'm working out, you know if
(31:53):
there's a mirror in front of meor I can see my reflection when
I'm working out and the magnoliathat I have on my shoulder,
that pedal right and I know youare really conscious of
placement.
I don't know if everyone elsethinks about that, but the way
that that pedal hits my shoulder, it moves so beautifully.
(32:15):
And again, I know it may soundsilly, but if the placement of a
tattoo can make me want to domore chest presses or more
military presses, great, it'sjust going to make the whole
thing more beautiful it's.
Micah Riot (32:36):
I mean, it's a really powerful thing.
I think you know, like how yousee your body and if there's
something that you're if it's atattoo or if it's an outfit
you're wearing that makes youfeel like really good and
powerful and attractive and allthat Like yeah, like those
things are really helpful.
They're tools in helping us getwhere we want to go, right.
Karin Riley (32:58):
Absolutely yeah.
The clothing, the, the tattoos,the haircut, the makeup,
whatever it is.
If something makes you feelbetter about who you are, I
fully support that.
That's one of the things I dowith my volunteer work, right.
(33:19):
Helping people be comfortablein who they are, helping them
maintain their lives right.
What's important to them intheir lives.
That's really, really importantto me.
So, yeah, now that I can do itfor myself.
Micah Riot (33:33):
I will.
Will you tell us more about thevolunteer work?
Tell those sinners about yourvolunteer work.
Karin Riley (33:38):
Yeah, I volunteer.
I volunteer several places, butwhere I am most active is with
a program in San Franciscocalled the Shanti Project and
their sister program called PAWS, which is an acronym.
Pets Are Wonderful Support, andit started in the late 80s for
(34:00):
folks experiencing AIDS who werein the hospital dying of this
new cancer.
Right, there wasn't a name forit.
They didn't, there wasn't aname for it, and they just
needed someone to sit and listento them.
Right, these were people whowere being told they were not
going to survive and so many ofthem didn't.
(34:24):
And so it's.
It's being a volunteer, beingpaired with or matched with
someone in the city who needssupport, and it's not just folks
who are or were.
Maybe their virus levels can nolonger be detected, which is
fantastic.
Women with cancer, folks withinthe LGBTQIA plus community who
(35:01):
are aging and need physicalassistance with shopping or
cleaning or just need someone tospend time with.
Right, Because a lot of thesefolks have lost friends and, you
know, I think everyone whoreally cares about anybody in
the LGBTQ community understandsthat they may also have lost
(35:22):
their family.
You know, family members justdon't Whether you are in the
community or not.
Family isn't forever.
You know, that's just not athing, and so if I can provide
that support um to someone, Iabsolutely will.
So I've been working with themsince 2017, since I moved to the
(35:47):
city and now I also helpfacilitate training so that, as
new people come into the program, I get to work with folks who
are, who are training.
Micah Riot (35:58):
Do you still see clients Like you have like a
some amount of folks that yousee on some regular basis?
Karin Riley (36:05):
I don't have a um, a single aligned client right
now.
My client passed it's been twoyears ago actually and I haven't
felt ready to take on anyoneelse.
We were paired for three orfour years and we're very close
(36:30):
and that was hard.
It was really hard for me, notin that he was ready to go.
It was the right time, that'sokay.
He's with his old boy.
Him leaving was okay.
What was hard for me wasopening up that much time and
(37:03):
space long-term to someone else.
So I've done short-term andmore of the pause.
So the on the pet side, it'shelping people who maybe can't
walk or because they are onchemo or unwell, it's not safe
for them to clean up after theanimals.
You know doing that kind ofthing and also delivering food
(37:25):
to people.
Micah Riot (37:26):
So you would basically come in for pet care,
yeah, okay, yeah, and like walktheir dog and like walk their
dog.
Karin Riley (37:34):
I I have.
You know this as well.
I have um animal rescueexperience.
So if somebody needs a cat whohas needs to be pilled every day
at two o'clock, I'll I'll go dothat or subcutaneous fluids, or
taking someone's dog to the vetfor a vet appointment.
Because they're not mobile,they can't leave their apartment
(37:57):
or go that far or be out oftheir apartment for that long a
period of time.
I'll take their pet to the vetfor them.
Micah Riot (38:06):
Yeah, yeah, that is a really serious commitment to
humanity, yeah that is a reallyserious commitment to humanity.
Karin Riley (38:18):
It's so life-changing for the person
you're helping and honestly,again, I have the time, I have
the ability to do this.
If it's going to make someoneelse's life that much better,
why would I not do it?
I can spend an afternoon withan absolutely adorable there's.
(38:39):
There's one client whose dogI've taken to the vet several
times and the dog's name issugar and she is the sweetest,
you know.
I go to pick her up and she'shappy to see me and she's happy
to get in the car and she'shappy to go to the vet and she's
happy to walk out of the vetand she's happy to get in the
car and she's happy to go to thevet and she's happy to walk out
of the vet and she's happy toget home to her mom and it's
like there is nothing bad aboutthat.
Micah Riot (38:58):
There's no bad in that.
How big is Sugar?
Is she white?
Karin Riley (39:02):
Of course she's a white little mini poodle, I
don't know.
She's a little white curlyhaired, uh, munchkin, and I
would guess she's maybe justunder 20 pounds.
She's not as big as our catsused to be, so she's under 20
pounds, yeah I love the wayyou're smiling talking about
(39:25):
this stuff like this work it's abig deal, you, I love it.
Micah Riot (39:30):
When was the first time you were exposed to the
realities of folks living withAIDS and queerness?
How big of a deal that is inour world, and it's becoming
less so.
But when were you first sort offound out that there were
people who were different inthose ways and shunned by
(39:50):
society because of it?
Different in those?
Karin Riley (39:52):
ways and shunned by society because of it.
In the 80s, very early on, mymom was a nurse.
She worked as a nurse andalways did well.
(40:18):
I was living at home.
She always did women's care,usually labor and delivery or
something to do with sexualhealth and early on nurses were
aware that something washappening and there were
patients I was too young toreally be able to compare it to
COVID right Patients that peopledidn't want to touch, patients
(40:42):
that people didn't want to treat.
But I knew that there wassomething that was not right and
I did not grow up in a veryprogressive area, so the idea
that sick people who needed helpwere not being cared for didn't
(41:02):
sit well with me.
And I think I definitely hadfriends who I knew were gay in
high school, but I went to aCatholic high school so it was
not a topic of conversation.
And when I got to college we hadfriends who were gay and who
were out, which was greatbecause they were.
(41:24):
It was nice to live in a placewhere people were comfortable
with that, comfortable in beingwho they were, where people were
comfortable with that,comfortable in being who they
were and could be who they werewith their friends openly.
And then I lived in New Yorkfor a year after college and
that was in the mid nineties, sothere was a very big gay
(41:45):
presence.
So yeah, I guess probably themost exposure I had was when I
was in New York.
That was the most variety ofpeople, you know.
Having the older gay couplethat lived down the street and
working with people who were gayand then having city events
(42:07):
around pride, that was probablythe most um, the broadest
exposure to different gayculture, the first time I had
been exposed.
And then I don't know, how comethat was.
Micah Riot (42:33):
That was the sort of cause that you really poured
your energy into, as opposed toaddiction or women's domestic
violence, other kinds of bigcauses that you probably also
weren't really aware of yeah,really good question.
Karin Riley (42:47):
I think women's violence for me hit a little too
close to home.
I think women's violence for mehit a little too close to home.
That would have beenexceptionally challenging for me
(43:08):
to reconcile with my ownexperience.
What I grew up with.
That has taken me a really longtime to face on my own.
So I think doing anythingpublicly would have been too
hard and I still get very, veryangry.
I saw a meme the other day.
Every woman has a friend whohas an ancient rage inside of
her, usually directed at men.
I'm probably that friend for alot of people and, yeah, that
(43:34):
would have been too close and mysister was an addict, so I
think again, that would havebeen just a little close, yeah,
and I'm very aware of that as anadult.
Right, there are things that Ican manage and handle because I
(43:57):
still protect myself at somelevel.
Um, but I do feel like this issomething I've really opened
myself up to since moving to thecity and I love being here.
I just love being in an areawhere everyone has the
(44:19):
opportunity to celebrate whothey are.
And I know it's not perfect,you know, I'm not blind to the
fact that it is still extremelychallenging, but we are very
fortunate here that we have theresources that we do, we have
the parades that we do.
(44:40):
Um, yeah, yeah, it's.
It's a very different worldwhen I hear people who have
lived in the Bay area for mostof their lives, or at least
since they've been out, who talkabout wanting to move to
different places.
Um, you know, remove I, youknow I grew up on the East coast
, so I think of moving back Eastas a really challenging thing
(45:04):
to do.
You know, it's just notculturally, it's just not the
same.
Micah Riot (45:11):
Even like New York and like places like that.
Karin Riley (45:16):
From my experience.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's myexperience.
Everyone has a differentexperience and I was definitely
not part of any groups when Iwas living in New York.
You know that were as involved.
Micah Riot (45:34):
Well, you also had a lot less like personal
resources at that time and allthe way.
Karin Riley (45:39):
Yeah, that's totally true.
Yeah, yeah, I couldn't feedmyself, I didn't have the
ability to, you know, to joinanything else.
But, um, I definitely had a lotmore fire when I was a kid.
You know, when I was younger Ihad a lot more energy to be
outraged about things and speakup about things, and I think it
(45:59):
comes from a different place.
It comes from a place of love.
Micah Riot (46:02):
Now, yeah, I hear that.
I mean there's also just, Ithink as you get older you see
the complexity of things thatmakes it a lot harder to just
yell one specific thing.
So the structures that be areso strong that exhausting
yourself, fighting against themisn't necessarily the best use
(46:23):
of our energy and time.
I think that's a part of it too.
But it's always refreshing tohear people who are going to
transplant to California and Iam also, but I've been here
since I was 12, more or lesslike when we came from Russia.
So I kind of feel like if I aman American, I'm a Californian.
Karin Riley (46:43):
Yeah.
Micah Riot (46:44):
And how much I dream about going to the East Coast
and kind of imagine it and youknow, having lived in Ohio for a
time when I was in college,having that kind of
romanticizing the change inweather, you know, changing
seasons and the red leaves ofthe fall and like the blossoms
of the spring, and we have thathere a little bit right, but
it's so subtle, and so Iromanticize East Coast in a way
(47:09):
of like I am from a place thathas that and I think about that,
like how awesome would be tolike move back East and have a
more chill life, like a less ofa hustle life.
Karin Riley (47:21):
Yeah, and it's so not right Like you.
Micah Riot (47:24):
Well, I don't know Right, but to hear you, in New
York has a chill life?
Karin Riley (47:29):
Yeah, no, not New York.
I do not, I do not want to bein the city of New York has a
chill life?
Yeah, no, not New.
Micah Riot (47:31):
York.
I do not want to be in the cityof New York or the city of
Boston.
I don't want to be in a bigcity.
My idea is more like WesternMass or like upstate New York.
Karin Riley (47:40):
Grew up in Western Mass and aside from Northampton
there is not much that is chillthere.
Micah Riot (47:46):
Northampton is kind of where I want to be.
Northampton is awesome, yeah, Iknow, but I think, yeah, I
think it's an interesting thingto just like listen to you and
like some other folks who arereally happy to be here.
It's actually pretty rare tohear somebody talk about how
stoked they are to be here,because most of us just grumble
about how difficult it is, howmuch crime there is and how the
(48:11):
disparity in class just makesthings so desperate.
And how difficult it is howmuch crime there is and how the
disparity in class just makesthings so desperate and how
difficult it is to see how muchlike misery and poverty there is
.
Karin Riley (48:19):
Right Like but I also feel like there's an
opportunity to affect it.
Micah Riot (48:23):
Yeah, and that's that's.
That's the refreshing piece.
Karin Riley (48:26):
Yeah, and that's what I see is different.
Right, it's not that.
It's not that there aren'thomeless people.
It's not that there aren'thomeless people.
It's not that there isn't crimeyeah, but it's.
There are resources for peoplehere and I can go to Project
Open Hand and volunteer for aday and know that the work I've
(48:49):
done is going to feed 100 people.
I didn't have the opportunityto do that back East.
They wanted money.
They wanted money Anyorganization that I came across
and again, this was myexperience.
(49:10):
This may have been where Ilived, but it's not that I
didn't look, it's not that Ididn't try.
It was all sure, if you want tomake a donation, we'll take a
donation, Unless you have a tonof money.
That's just not an option.
Micah Riot (49:26):
And it's also not fulfilling.
There's a moment when you go,okay, I gave some money and it
felt nice to give some money,but then you're like, oh, is the
money going to establishing anoffice somewhere?
That's going to push papersaround that are about the people
we're trying to help.
It's not actually about thepeople.
I hear that totally.
You know, and like, during thepandemic I had more time and I
volunteered for the Alameda foodbank and it was so fun, Like it
(49:50):
was such a good time.
Yeah, I did it for a while, Idon't know a year or something
and then I started to feel likeI couldn't like physically do it
anymore.
I had some foot pain and I justcouldn't stand on my feet like
that for a day and I stopped.
Of course, now they send meemails or mail being like how
(50:12):
about you give us some money?
Karin Riley (50:14):
Yeah, I get those too right.
I volunteer for the city doinggrocery shopping for people.
During the pandemic the citypartnered with the Shanti
Project so anyone who had been avolunteer, who had actually
gone through a background check,could pick up gift certificates
(50:34):
to Safeway and it was $50 perfamily and you had a list of
groceries that they needed forthe week.
And I found out that I am stillreally good at shopping on a
budget.
I always came in at $50 or justbelow $50.
I think twice I added a fewcents to cover taxes and then
(50:59):
drop groceries off at people'sdoorsteps and it was.
It was so much fun, right, likebeing out, and it was scary.
I'm not going to lie, being inthe grocery store with other
people was a little scary, but Ialso knew I was double masked
(51:20):
and I was gloved and you know Ibefore we knew that we didn't
have to clean our groceries.
You know I always had a jar ofClorox wipes with me in the car
and I would wipe everything downwhen I put it down on someone's
porch.
So they were picking up cleanbags and that sort of thing.
But yeah, it's a very immediateway to give back.
(51:40):
That's also how we got intoanimal rescue.
You know, when we were on theEast Coast and I couldn't
literally couldn't find a grouplocally to volunteer with to
help people, we startedfostering dogs because that was
a very immediate thing thatwould make a difference, because
(52:01):
that was a very immediate thingthat would make a difference.
And, yeah, we can't continuethat out here because of where
we live.
There's an HOA.
Here's a Karen who's not a fanof HOAs.
There's an HOA rule in ourneighborhood that you can't have
more than two dogs perhousehold.
Micah Riot (52:16):
Otherwise you'd have more.
I'm sure, oh God, yeah, yeah,have more.
I'm sure.
Oh god, yeah, yeah, okay, sowhat is your personal recipe to
fulfilling life?
Oh, that sounds likevolunteering is in there yeah
for what?
Karin Riley (52:37):
else personally, um , personally, my family and
friends, my husband, you and Ihave talked about this before.
Right, I found my person soearly in life and I am so
fortunate to have done that.
So, maintaining my family,maintaining the friendships that
(53:03):
I have, that are reallyimportant to me, paying it
forward.
Micah Riot (53:11):
So volunteering.
Karin Riley (53:13):
Volunteering.
Maybe this still isvolunteering, but being involved
in my local community andpaying attention to what's
happening in the local community.
So that's kind of volunteering,but it's also, I think, just
being a good good citizen.
(53:36):
Yeah, a good citizen, a goodneighbor.
I think it's more than citizen,because it's not about the city
, it's about the people,neighbor yeah dogs dogs, cats,
animals, just animals in general.
Um, I don't know, that's athat's a tough question for me.
Micah Riot (53:59):
Art.
Karin Riley (54:00):
Art, food, music, all of the things, micah, all of
the things, actually.
Maybe that's what it is, maybeit's variety.
You can have all of the things,yeah.
I can have all of the things.
I allow it.
Thank you, yeah, can you tattooall of the things on my body?
Micah Riot (54:18):
for me.
You want all of the things.
I thought you just called itflowers, we things on my body
for me.
Karin Riley (54:22):
So you want all of the things I thought you just
called it flowers we might haveto throw a ladybug in there okay
, yeah, okay, we can do that.
Micah Riot (54:28):
If you want some bugs, I think they belong with
flowers.
Karin Riley (54:31):
They're interdependent, they have
community together yeah yeah, Ialso feel like you need a back
piece oh yeah, the flowers aregoing to go all the way around
to the back there's going to besomething, but there's something
about like a whole piece, acohesive like a back piece, like
(54:52):
not just like tattoos on yourback, but like a full back piece
.
There's something to me abouteven especially a person who
looks like a middle-aged whitelady named Karen even,
especially a person who looks.
Micah Riot (55:08):
Like a middle-aged white lady named Karen Sure,
librarian.
I'll just, I'll just stand inof that for like librarian right
, like just somebody who is likeproper, somebody who little
kids will approach and littleladies will approach and who
just looks very like innocentand respectable and societally
appropriate right respectable.
Karin Riley (55:26):
So you're saying I look respectable.
I appreciate that well, why not?
Micah Riot (55:31):
but you know, like it's like somebody who doesn't
look like they'd have like, andI guess a back piece to me
signifies very seriouscommitment to tattoos, almost to
a different extent, because youcan't see it yourself, so it's
not really it is for you, likethey're all for us, like no
tattoos are before other people,but it's, there's an energetic
(55:53):
difference to that.
Like you have this yeah big,beautiful canvas right.
This is the biggest piece ofskin you have.
It's the most you can do in abody besides a full body piece,
which is another I guess, typeof more extreme thing.
But there's something aboutsomebody who just doesn't look.
Maybe that same librarian ladyhas a little wrist piece or a
(56:13):
little you know ankle piece orsomething, but like if when she
takes off her little blazer withthe buttons and you can see the
sweater and there's a full assback piece and it's like bold
and it's big and it's you know,there's something about that
that I just think is so greatand it's that unexpected for me.
I think it's like the surprisein a person.
Karin Riley (56:37):
I see that and I do agree with you.
I think back pieces arebeautiful.
I see that and I do agree withyou.
I think back pieces arebeautiful.
Having now been tattooed onmultiple areas of my body, I
also have so much more respectfor people who have tattoos on
(56:58):
the fronts of their bodies,because the belly, the breasts
and the ribs the worst.
Yeah, like that to me.
Those are the people who aresuper tough.
Like those.
Those are the areas where Ithought it was going to be
(57:20):
easier, because there was morebody fat.
Micah Riot (57:26):
And now there there are more nerves, more nerve
endings there.
Karin Riley (57:28):
Yeah, you can do my back.
Micah Riot (57:31):
That's going to be nothing.
After you've done the front ofmy back, I don't necessarily
think that you know what you'retalking about.
Karin Riley (57:35):
No, probably not I have.
I have one magnolia and abranch on the back of my no, I
mean, you know what you'retalking about.
Micah Riot (57:42):
You know that shit fucking hurts, but the back can
surprisingly be difficult.
Yeah, it can be, and I have aback piece that is full and it
definitely were sessions thatfelt fine.
And then there were sessionsthat were just fucking agony.
And Corey, my artist he workslonger sessions that I usually
(58:03):
do, so I think there's salvationthere for my clients, as people
usually get away with likethree hours tops for me where
you know I have sat for likefour, four and a half with him
and it gets.
It gets spicy, but you're toughlike you can fucking do it.
But just so you know, know theback can.
Oh, I'm sure I don't think anyof it's going to be easy, but
(58:26):
also it's Well, it's also easy,because it's like bringing you
closer to who you are on theinside.
Karin Riley (58:31):
And it's chosen.
Yeah, this is, this is chosen.
I know what I'm asking for.
This is not a surprise, um, butalso it's such a nice
environment.
You know like, yeah, I, I'masking somebody to stab me
(58:52):
repeatedly until the top layerof my skin is gone.
I'm gonna have a greatconversation.
Sailor is there now?
And is there anyone who doesn'tlove Sailor?
Micah Riot (59:07):
I mean there's not.
Karin Riley (59:09):
Lulu is there.
Sometimes there's nothing badabout being there.
You're going to make a cup oftea for me.
You're going to tell me to havea lollipop.
We're going to talk about food.
We're going to talk about dogs.
We're going to talk about lovelives.
Going to talk about dogs.
We're going to talk about lovelives.
It's it's a really nice placeto be.
It's a great way to spend timeI love that.
Micah Riot (59:32):
That is the kind of environment that it is that
someone like you feels good andsafe and held there.
That's that's what it's for.
Yeah, that's what it's aboutand what I said earlier about
you don't know what you'retalking about.
I need to recant that Everytattoo you've gotten has been on
the most sensitive of places inthe body.
You literally have coveredfirst the most sensitive places
(59:55):
in the body, so that's not whatI meant.
You clearly very much knowabout tattoo pain.
Karin Riley (01:00:00):
Yeah, I mean it's fine.
I also appreciate that youalways tell me what I'm getting
into too, and I've never had myknees done.
I haven't done anything on myknee.
I'm guessing the back of theknee or the top of the calf
would also be spicy.
Micah Riot (01:00:17):
I think the back of the knee you're right is up
there, and then the feet the topof the tops of the knee, you're
right, is up there, and thenthe feet, the tops of the feet.
Karin Riley (01:00:24):
The ankle bone was not cool, that was not fun.
Yeah, that was not fun.
Micah Riot (01:00:30):
Yeah, I have some ankle stuff.
I don't have anything on thetops of my feet and I feel like
that would be hell.
The neck this might besomething that might be
happening this year for me is mybest friend and I've been
friends since we were in ourearly twenties and she reminded
me this year.
She said remember when you saidthat when we turn 40, we'll get
(01:00:50):
our next tattooed, and I waslike you're overdue, I know,
right, I'm overdue by a coupleof days.
Um, I was like happy birthday,by the way, thank you, thank you
.
Um, it's been a good birthday,by the way, thank you.
Thank you, it's been a goodbirthday.
But I was like I did say that.
Okay, I don't remember, but Ibelieve you and I'm down, and so
(01:01:10):
we've started talking aboutwhat and when.
Her birthday is in November, soI don't feel like we need to
rush, but maybe between now andhers or right after hers or
something we can approach thatproject, since there's a lot of
projects this year, did youagree on where on the neck
(01:01:30):
they're not matching?
It's just our necks Like.
It's just a matter of like.
We're 40.
We're established in our livesmore or less.
I mean, things can changealways, you know.
But that she and I both feltlike at 40 we'll be ready for
like a very visible, moreserious kind of a, a socially
(01:01:50):
unacceptable tattoo.
And you know, like I've hadthings done now my hands that I
feel like you know in my 20swould have felt maybe not yet
appropriate.
Yeah, yeah, that's just a stageof life I was at, but um, yeah,
I mean I feel like I'm.
I love a neck tattoo.
(01:02:11):
Liz is gonna have a hard timewith it, but she'll have to get
over it yeah, she loves you.
Karin Riley (01:02:16):
She does love your tattoo she will.
Micah Riot (01:02:20):
Just you know, there's some people that really
interconnect tattoos.
She's not one of them myhusband again.
Karin Riley (01:02:26):
This will date us horribly um.
Micah Riot (01:02:29):
My husband had an eyebrow piercing back in the day
and I hated it really I really,really did, I really did I feel
like the eyebrow piercing ofthe 90s, though they have this
connotation of like a surfer boy.
Was that what it was, or was itsomething else?
Karin Riley (01:02:47):
Actually, no, he wasn't a surfer boy, but that's
why he ended up losing thepiercing, because he was surfing
and he wiped out it.
Ripped out, no, it got sand init, okay, and so he had to have
it like surgically cleaned up.
He's got a scar from it, yeahyeah, and you were.
Micah Riot (01:03:10):
You were like I'm sorry that you're suffering, but
like glad you don't have thepiercing anymore yeah, I.
Karin Riley (01:03:16):
I don't remember how the conversation exactly
went, but it was very much that.
Yeah, that's too bad.
Can I drive you?
Micah Riot (01:03:25):
well, don't like, don't worry, I'm not, I'm not
angling to put a neck necktattoo on you because I don't.
I don't actually think thatwould be the right thing for you
territory that got a reallylong neck like that you do.
But that's not.
It's not about neck length,it's just a style thing.
I just feel like it would.
I mean a lady, I mean a littlebit, but I like don't see you
(01:03:46):
with, like you know, some darklike neck tattoo situation, but
I do see you with like a fullback piece of sleeve, like those
kinds of things.
Karin Riley (01:03:55):
Great.
Micah Riot (01:03:56):
Yeah.
Karin Riley (01:03:56):
You're going to have to put up with me for a
really long time.
Micah Riot (01:04:04):
I would love to please, please, I would love to
put up with you for a very, verylong time.
Good, you're stuck.
Good, I'm going to ask you mykind of standard last question.
Karin Riley (01:04:17):
I have an answer.
Micah Riot (01:04:19):
Good, I'm going to ask it.
Great, what's a small thingthat's been making you happy
lately?
Karin Riley (01:04:24):
I got new sheets.
I got linen sheets and I amabsolutely loving them.
Micah Riot (01:04:33):
What color?
Karin Riley (01:04:35):
They're white.
Okay, just plain white, butit's the texture and the fact
that we've had this conversationtoo.
I sleep hot right.
Menopause is not a joke, andsheets that are heavy or sticky
are horrible right now, and thelinen sheets have enough body to
(01:04:58):
them that they don't like stick.
Micah Riot (01:05:05):
They have an airy shape to them, almost like
there's pockets of air in theirstructure.
Karin Riley (01:05:10):
Yes, and they have been fantastic.
Micah Riot (01:05:16):
Are you a top sheet girly or no?
Karin Riley (01:05:19):
I am, yeah, I've always been a top sheet person.
Micah Riot (01:05:25):
It's not something I grew up with.
So when we moved here and Iwould go to someone else's house
or you know a hotel and I'dalways be like I'm tangled up in
this thing, I can't move.
Karin Riley (01:05:35):
I hate this yes, I don't like.
I am so picky.
There are so many things I'mpicky about, micah.
I don't like this tucked in.
I don't like I am so picky.
There are so many things I'mpicky about, micah.
I don't like the sheet tuckedin.
I don't want my feet trapped.
Micah Riot (01:05:47):
Yeah, no, no, tucked in.
Karin Riley (01:05:48):
I agree, but I also don't like the sheets to be
messy, so I'm one of thosepeople that pulls the sheets up
tight, pulls the duvet up andthen folds the sheets over the
top of the duvet.
Micah Riot (01:05:59):
So you have like that A barrier for your face and
stuff.
Karin Riley (01:06:04):
Yeah, and it doesn't.
The sheets don't move that waybecause they're wrapped around.
Micah Riot (01:06:09):
Well, they don't move that way, because you
probably don't move that much.
But if you fight with your bed,the entire night, several times
that I sleep like a corpse.
So I will fight my bed.
Karin Riley (01:06:21):
Fighting for a good night's sleep, yeah.
Micah Riot (01:06:29):
Where did you get your sheets?
People might want to know.
Karin Riley (01:06:33):
I hesitate to say this because I'm afraid to say I
haven't done a lot of researchon the company.
Micah Riot (01:06:39):
Okay, you don't have to.
We can keep it secret.
Find your own damn sheets,people.
Karin Riley (01:06:44):
I'll tell you, but I want you to take it out if
they're not sustainable.
I'm going to look it up as soonas possible?
Micah Riot (01:06:48):
No, no, no, don't tell me.
Tell me, when we tattoo.
Karin Riley (01:06:50):
Right, you can always add it to the comments
later.
Micah Riot (01:07:01):
Yeah, and because I was person about the seat that
you get slightly that one's notas big for me.
Karin Riley (01:07:11):
Where I sit is not as important to me.
If there are just two of us,we're weirdos.
James and I sit on the sameside of the table or sit next to
each other instead of eachother yeah, liz, and I do that
too yeah it.
It's easier to have aconversation that way too.
You're not shouting across atable.
I don't have to be the personwho sits facing the door or
(01:07:35):
anything like that.
If I'm traveling alone, I'mmore picky about it, but no,
it's not a huge issue to me.
Micah Riot (01:07:43):
Okay, my curiosity was satisfied.
Good yeah, thank you so muchfor coming on the podcast.
You're the best.
There's nothing basic about youat all.
I love you to pieces and I'mreally really happy that you
found me.
Karin Riley (01:08:00):
I'm happy to have found you too.
I'm happy you accepted me asyour client.
I'm really, really happy thatyou found me.
I'm happy to have found you too.
I'm happy you accepted me asyour client.
Micah Riot (01:08:05):
I'm rolling my eyes right now.
Thank you.
Hey, Micah Riott here.
So you know how I started thispodcast to showcase how amazing
and beautiful and fascinatingand lovely people I get to
tattoo are.
Today is a prime example ofthat.
Karen Riley is really one ofthe most kind humans I've ever
met, ever met, and I just feelso lucky that I get to tattoo
(00:28):
her, that she's given me so muchfreedom to help her come more
inside her skin, to own her body, to love her body.
I really feel honored to bepart of her process around this
and to be given so much freedomand so much trust and I'm really
excited for all of you to meether.
Much freedom and so much trust,and I'm really excited for all
of you to meet her.
Quick content warning we talk alittle bit about childhood
(00:50):
trauma not a ton, not in detail,but it's there and we also
mention working with peopleliving with HIV and AIDS, as
well as domestic violence andsubstance abuse Again not in
detail, but we mention thosethings and with that I hope you
enjoy this episode as much as Ienjoyed making it for you.
Karin Riley (01:15):
It's easier to talk when I'm not on the table being
stabbed.
Micah Riot (01:19):
That's very fair.
Are you sitting on the floor?
Karin Riley (01:21):
I am sitting on the floor because the couch in here
is leather and I was afraidthat if I moved it would make
leather fart noises, so I'msitting on the floor.
Micah Riot (01:32):
You might be the most thoughtful guest I've ever
had, so will you pleaseintroduce yourself your name
(02:16):
your pronouns your, I don't knowwhat else your location, your
age and your go-to breakfast.
Karin Riley (02:24):
My name is Karin I use she her pronouns.
I am located in Bayview in SanFrancisco and I am a few weeks
away from turning 52.
I don't have a go-to breakfastitem that I eat all the time.
Recently I've been havinggluten-free sourdough bread
(02:49):
because I took a cooking classwhere we made sourdough bread
and that's been good becauseI've been experimenting with the
recipe and trying new things.
Micah Riot (03:00):
How is the bread?
Is it delicious?
Karin Riley (03:03):
It's not delicious.
Micah Riot (03:05):
It does the job, but it's not quite as delicious as
you'd like the texture is reallygood, which is not normally
what people say about free bread.
Karin Riley (03:15):
So the texture is really good, and I am enjoying
eating bread that has a reallycrisp crust on it.
It's chewy, crisp crust on it,it's chewy.
I'm still playing with theflavor, though, because the the
blend of flowers that I'm usingright now isn't quite up to what
(03:35):
I would like it to be you knowwhat texture is like half the
battle, right, it is.
Micah Riot (03:40):
I feel like it's like more, even more important,
because you know what you can doto the flavor.
Let's put this on it Chilicrisps.
Yum, I've discovered thismagical category of food and
this might be my favorite brand.
Do you know this stuff?
I do.
Okay, it's apparently just mewho, like, wasn't familiar.
Karin Riley (04:03):
Yeah, it is.
It's good stuff.
I haven't tried it on bread,which sounds silly.
Micah Riot (04:09):
Yeah, like grown it everything.
But for people who are justlistening and not watching, what
I was showing was a jar of abrand that comes from Japan
called Musso, and it's umamiblack garlic chili crisps, which
is just like a topping that Iput on literally everything, and
(04:31):
it's consists of sesame oil,onion, seaweed, shiitake,
mushroom, garlic, sesame seeds,sea salt, chili pepper, sugar,
tamari, soy sauce, um, someother things smaller, you know
quantities, but essentially it'sjust like a flavor bomb, and
I've also gotten excited abouttrying to make it myself, which
(04:52):
I haven't for a while, but tolike, take the sugar out of it
yeah, yeah, there are a lot ofdifferent.
Karin Riley (04:59):
You know this about me, right, I'm such a nerd, but
there are a lot of differentcultural variations.
In spicy pepper sauces, right,everyone has something.
Um, and I know some from themiddle east use nuts sugar, so
that might be an option too Iwould collect this shit like I
would literally collect it fromall over the world.
Micah Riot (05:20):
I love it and I also totally and I didn't realize
that I liked spice as much as Ido.
I feel like maybe now I couldget into ruts with my food, you
know, and I'll be like okay, I'mhaving my chicken breast that I
roasted with my vegetable andit's like fine, but I just want
there to be like a kick and likean experience in my mouth and
(05:41):
I'm so like, ah, chicken breastagain, you know.
Karin Riley (05:44):
Yeah.
Micah Riot (05:45):
But like it's what makes me feel good, so that's
what I eat.
But then I want like anexperience.
Karin Riley (05:49):
Yeah, I don't think it's a rut.
I think you totally nailed itwhen you said it makes you feel
good.
That's not a rut, that's takingcare of yourself.
Micah Riot (05:56):
Yeah, but like you know, just in like the flavor
sense of it, I get into thiskind of like oh it's so boring,
yeah, so, yeah, yeah, you have alot of.
So you, you've been gettingtattooed by me for now what two
years.
Karin Riley (06:15):
I think that's right.
I didn't look back to see whenour first appointment was, but
it seems like it's about twoyears, because I remember my
interview and that was over theholidays.
It was probably November orDecember.
Yeah, so it would have been twoyears.
Micah Riot (06:34):
I love that you're calling it an interview.
Can you tell me more about whyyou're calling it an interview
instead of a consultation?
Karin Riley (06:39):
I.
So I was.
I was laughing at myselfbecause I was thinking back to
some of the podcasts that I'velistened to, some of your
podcasts, and you were talkingabout the intake questionnaire
that you do, or you used to do,with your clients and you said
something about you know somepeople write a book, and I
(07:01):
thought, oh, that's me.
I took it really seriously andI do take things like that
seriously.
You know being considerate ofother people and you know what
do you do in your localcommunity, and that's huge for
me.
It's one of the things I likebest about being in San
(07:24):
Francisco and being in the BayArea is that there is such an
opportunity to make a differenceimmediately, locally, right In
my neighborhood, in my city, inthe Bay Area.
So I did think of thatconversation, that first
conversation we had as aninterview.
Micah Riot (07:43):
Who was interviewing whom conversation we had as an
interview.
Karin Riley (07:46):
Who was interviewing whom?
You were interviewing me.
I had already seen your work.
I already knew that I likedyour work.
I knew what I wanted to get outof it, um, but I didn't know if
I would be somebody that rightCause, again referring back to
your, your other podcasts I'mthat middle-aged white lady
right and literally named Karen.
There is nothing about me thatis, you know, outside of the
(08:14):
average everyday person from theoutside.
So I did take it reallyseriously.
Micah Riot (08:22):
I think it's so interesting how the most
beautiful people humblethemselves, you know, to like
this, this sort of like thelabels of like well, I'm white
and I'm my name is this, andlike, like Liz does this, you do
this Like, but I hear Liz dothis, right, like her name is
(08:43):
Liz Williams, like the mostcommon name in the world, in
America, and she would just belike, well, I'm just like this
basic average girl and I'm justlike, no, you're not.
And also like what does thatmean?
So I hear you say that.
Actually, a fair amount.
It's funny.
I think you guys would likelove each other, I'm sure we
would?
Karin Riley (09:03):
I'm sure we would.
And do you know that my maidenname is Johnson?
Oh yeah, so lucky truly.
And it's all about perception.
Right From the outside, I'm anaverage middle aged white lady,
and if I introduced myself tosomeone by name, it's not going
(09:24):
to identify me as anything butan average middle-aged white
lady.
But it's like what that's okay.
That's that's where you findthe people who you're supposed
to spend time with, because theydo go deeper than what you look
like on the outside and whatyour name is.
Right that that's where youfind the people who become part
of your circles.
(09:44):
But yeah, I'm very aware thaton the outside I just look like
a, an average person and that'sokay.
Micah Riot (09:54):
And you know, what's funny is that when I was
younger and like more in thescene, like in the queer scene,
where I would go to places andsee people, which I don't do
anymore but people would be likeyou look familiar and I'd be
like I just look like a genericqueer person.
Karin Riley (10:08):
Yeah great, I look like an average middle-aged
white lady.
Micah Riot (10:12):
And I think we all think that about ourselves.
We just look like some genericqueer person, some generic white
lady, some colored hair punkrock girl, Like it's not,
there's.
No, I don't.
I think we all think that aboutourselves.
Karin Riley (10:28):
Yeah, probably, and I I know I spent a lot of time
as a teenager and as a a youngeradult trying to stand out in
different points in time in mylife and that was so
uncomfortable for me, I didn'tlike.
I didn't like attractingattention that way.
(10:49):
So I am totally cool with notnot standing out.
Micah Riot (10:57):
Does that sound weird?
No, I'm trying to ask you aquestion about that in a way
that makes sense.
So how did you try to stand outbefore, when you were younger?
What did you try?
Karin Riley (11:11):
into.
I've always been very intomusic and when I was 13, 14,
15-ish maybe not that old, maybeit was 12, 15, 14, whatever it
(11:35):
was I was very into kind of thealternative scene.
It wasn't punk, because where Ilived there wasn't a huge punk
scene, but I had a mullet right,it wasn't called a mullet at
(11:57):
that point, but it was spikedand I had a mullet and I very
much dressed androgynously witha lot of makeup and and usually
in one color palette.
I would do like really heavypink makeup one day, or really
heavy purple makeup, and I didnot fit in with the other folks
(12:21):
my age, which was also okay atthe time.
Micah Riot (12:24):
Are there photos of this?
Karin Riley (12:27):
I don't know.
I don't actually have a lot ofphotos anymore.
That's not something I hold onto.
That's not stuff that I keep.
It was.
It was also not an easy pointin time in my life, so there's a
lot of stuff I just haven'theld on to.
Micah Riot (12:44):
Yeah, I would have loved to see a picture of Karen
bright pink makeup with a spikedlike like mullet and like tight
jeans and I don't know kind ofandrogynous out like that sounds
.
That sounds amazing, I feellike.
I feel like this is somethingyou could pull off now.
Karin Riley (13:05):
I totally would you .
You know, that's my comfortoutfit too bright pink makeup.
Yeah, yeah, all the bright pinkbard makeup across the eyes.
No but the the casual, loose,comfortable clothes.
Micah Riot (13:22):
I'm thinking more like punk rock, like 80s.
I know you said it wasn't punk,it was more alternative.
But I'm thinking like the torn,torn jeans, like the rock, the
rockers, the like yeah, morelike the british yes style.
That's kind of what I'mthinking about.
I don't know if that yeah ittotally is.
Karin Riley (13:42):
It, totally is, yeah.
Yeah, I saw David Bowie washuge on my list.
I somehow managed to see himmultiple times as a teenager
with no car and no money.
It's amazing, it really was.
I pulled off some really goodstuff somehow and made it
through it through.
Micah Riot (14:09):
So that thing about attention getting um, you didn't
like being in the center ofattention, you didn't like
people paying attention to you.
So when did that?
When did you shift like yourlook, you know from maybe being
and I think that when you wereyounger, like, dressing that way
can also be a way of likeputting a wall up right, like
don't come to me like I'mintimidating, don't talk to me
like I'm scary and I'm different, and so.
(14:30):
But then that shifts into beingmore of like, uh, I'm just
gonna dress to look moreinvisible.
So when do you think thatshifted?
Karin Riley (14:39):
I think I always shifted my appearance based on
the people I was friends withand where I was living.
It took me a long time tofigure out who I was
independently.
I think I'm still figuring itout, figuring it out.
(15:11):
So for a long time in college Idated someone who was in the
Navy.
So I was very much the likeprim and proper and white heels
and that kind of thing, whichwas highly entertaining.
It was a very big shift.
And then in the late nineties,early 90s actually, and through
the 90s it was very much grunge,you know, and big flannel
(15:38):
shirts.
And then I got a air quote,proper job, and needed to dress
for work in a way that didn'tcause trouble.
So it was navy blue skirts andbutton-down shirts and pantyhose
(15:58):
and all that kind of stuff.
I don't even think I ownpantyhose anymore and I
definitely don't have any pencilskirts left, because you're in
the Bay now, cause I'm in theBay now.
Micah Riot (16:09):
Yeah.
Karin Riley (16:11):
That would be standing out tremendously to
wear anything like that.
But yeah, and I think a lot ofit was trying, as you said,
trying to put up a wall when Iwas a teenager and then trying
to fit in so that I didn't drawattention, because that was
never a safe thing to do.
You know, I've realized thatthere was a lot of um, there
(16:36):
were a lot of times when it justwasn't safe for me to bring
attention to myself as a kid, asa young adult, so I didn't
myself as a kid, as a youngadult, so I didn't.
Micah Riot (16:49):
It's something I talked about with my therapist
yesterday.
Actually, this topic and Ithink she said that felt very
new way to put it is we weretalking.
She was telling me how, whenthe child grows up with
caretakers that put their ownneeds before the child's needs,
(17:12):
it's really hard for the childto then grow up and receive
attention from people that lovethem and really be able to
receive it, because you alwaysthink that any attention coming
in to your sphere means that youhave to then take care of other
people's needs.
Karin Riley (17:25):
Interesting.
Yeah, I can.
I can see that in my case itwas not safe.
My father was an inconsistentlytreated bipolar and at the time
it was called manic depressionand that was a really good
description for what he did andhow that affected the rest of us
(17:46):
.
And so if you didn't drawattention, you wouldn't be the
target of anything that washappening.
And yes, I absolutely agreewith you that when you have
inconsistent parenting or aninconsistent household right, I
don't think this is justparenting but if you're a child
(18:07):
in a household where your needsare not taken care of, where you
have to learn to be independent, it is very hard to get
attention from anyone elsebecause it's not a safe thing.
It makes things very uneven,very unstable.
Micah Riot (18:22):
Yeah, yes, and it was the way that she
specifically put it.
Like other people, when theycome closer, it feels like it's
all about their needs, even ifit's not you know, and so you as
an adult, like you, still kindof function that way of like I
can't like this is overwhelmingright, like getting attention.
Karin Riley (18:45):
And that's still true.
Micah Riot (18:46):
Yeah.
Karin Riley (18:47):
Yeah, a lot of, a lot of things happening or being
the center of attention.
It's just hard because it'sunfamiliar.
I don't know that it will evergo away.
You know, as much as I work onit, as much as my therapist
tells me I'm doing a great job.
It's just it's it's it's alifelong thing, right, it
(19:07):
changes who you are and howyou're wired as a person.
Micah Riot (19:11):
Yes, and it, I mean it also, you know.
However, whatever our trauma is, it carries gifts too, you know
.
it also makes us more perceptive, more considerate, more caring,
like in different ways, moreable to connect in certain ways
right, even if some parts ofconnection are difficult, like
receiving.
But so you know, for me thissort of sense of being at the
(19:34):
center of attention is bad andscary.
As I get older it feels likeit's translating more and more
into the way that I look, Alsoso much about what I do to my,
to my skin, but more like Ican't have a bright, colorful
hair because people will commenton it and it just feels like
why would I bother?
You know, for example, not thatI want to have colorful hair if
(19:57):
I did, I'd have it.
But when I've had hairstylistssuggest color, I'd be like can't
pull it off, it's too much, youknow, and inside I'm going.
If I had bright blue hair,people would like comment on it
and I'd be like I don't want totalk to you about it you know,
so it kind of like translates tothat too, and so I think that I
can then translate to tattoosas well.
(20:18):
It's like here we're getting thetopic of tattoos.
I'm so I mean what I you know,and so I mean what I'm asking is
like, does that feel relevantto you?
Like I mean, you started to gettattoos recently, right?
Like you're turning 52.
So it's the second half of yourlife.
You're clearly very excitedabout them and passionate about
(20:41):
them, and so does that feelrelevant to this topic we're
talking about of like how tocenter yourself in your own life
, or attention and the physicalmarks of sort of like right
their attention, getting thingslike maybe not when you go to
work every day, but if you wentto the beach and you wear a
bikini, people will be like hey,you've got flowers all over you
(21:02):
right, yeah, it, it is relevantbecause I have I've had one
tattoo for several decades,right, and that was a reminder
tattoo.
Karin Riley (21:14):
That was kind of not necessarily a memorial
tattoo, but it was a remindertattoo, and these, the flowers
that you are doing for me, areall about me, right, it is.
It's a celebration of the goodthings in my life and it's funny
that you say go to the beach.
We were on vacation last weekwith my husband's family and my
(21:39):
sister-in-law.
I hope I don't cry when I saythis.
My sister-in-law took a pictureof me in my bathing suit and
showed me later.
I didn't know that she had takenit and she showed me later and
she said I want you to see howbeautiful your tattoos are in
(22:01):
your bathing suit.
She said that is so gorgeous inyour bathing suit.
She said that is so gorgeous.
And it was such an affirmingthing to hear, because I don't
(22:21):
talk about what I'm doing withmy body.
They're for me and they hadn'tseen them.
And so to have her say this isabsolutely gorgeous and I want
you to see what it looks likefrom someone else's perspective,
just felt like it was one ofthe nicest things I've heard
(22:46):
from anyone ever.
Micah Riot (22:49):
So, yeah, how did that attention feel?
Like somebody noticed your bodyand noticed how you look and
like that's a lot.
Karin Riley (22:59):
It is.
I think the attention didn'tbother me because I didn't know
what was happening when it washappening, which makes it sound
a little creepy, but I was finewith it in that context and I
don't know if it's because ofwho it came from or whether it's
(23:19):
because I'm getting better atmanaging that she sounds like a
loving person.
Micah Riot (23:24):
sister-in-law.
Karin Riley (23:25):
I am so fortunate my chosen family, my chosen
friends, the people in mycircles.
I have realized I have veryintentionally surrounded myself
with people who are just amazing.
I have some really amazingfriends and chosen family.
(23:46):
I'm extremely fortunate in thatway and count you among those
people.
Micah Riot (23:55):
So I'm crying from your story as well.
Is this a picture you'rewilling to share with me?
Karin Riley (24:04):
Yes, If I have it.
I don't know if she sent it tome.
She might have it on her phone,but yes, I will ask her to send
it to me.
I'm going to send it over.
Micah Riot (24:12):
And were you, besides like feeling kind of
like loved in that moment?
Did you look at the picture andgo, yes, I do look beautiful.
Karin Riley (24:22):
I do, and you and I talk about that a lot.
Right, that's something that wetalk about every time I'm on
your table.
And I did.
I looked at the picture and Ican see the muscle definition
coming back in my arms and in myback.
Yeah, right.
Micah Riot (24:43):
I just made a face like really Okay.
Karin Riley (24:57):
And it was just.
You know, I think when you canrecognize that people are in
their authentic selves, it's abig deal.
And it was neat to see it fromsomeone else's perspective in me
, because I did see it andthat's not something I have
always seen in pictures ofmyself.
So to see myself relaxed andhaving a conversation and have
(25:19):
someone else tell me that, it'sa really beautiful thing.
Again, it was just superaffirming it was.
I talked about that in therapythis week and then I looked at
my calendar to see when you andI have our next appointment.
Micah Riot (25:33):
So you could tell me about it?
Karin Riley (25:35):
Just so I could tell you about it and so that I
could get more right.
More make it bigger.
Micah Riot (25:43):
Make it bigger.
Yes, let's do more.
Um, how did you come to thepoint where you decided it was
time and then, when you decidedit was the time, it was for
flowers for that many and thatmuch like?
How did you come to that forthat many and that much?
Karin Riley (26:07):
Like how did you come to that?
That's a really good question.
I didn't come to the decisionof doing the whole my whole
torso until last fall, when youand I discussed it.
(26:28):
Prior to that, I had decided Iwanted or needed reminders of
the good people and the goodthings that had happened in my
life and for me.
I'm very location oriented andwhen I think about the places
(26:53):
where I was happy, where thingswere good, one of the things I
see in my mind are the plantsand the flowers that were there,
and that's how I wanted tomemorialize that on my body.
Micah Riot (27:15):
It's a place you feel at peace.
Karin Riley (27:17):
Yeah, and why not literally carry that with me, in
a way that it was very presentfor me, not just a memory that I
could pull up in my head, but avisible touchstone on my body.
Micah Riot (27:34):
And from my experience of doing florals are
a common theme in tattooing andit's probably something I would
say out of all the work I'vedone, probably have 75% have
been something to do with plants.
But most people when they comewith a request for plants they
go okay, I have these fiveplants that I want.
Here's the amount of space I'mgiving you for it.
(27:57):
You know, make it work Like,make a little bouquet, a little
vignette, something happen likethat.
And you didn't do that.
You were kind of like I didn'teven know what you said, because
it's hard for me to rememberwhat people ask for, because I
only can see what we came upwith and the process sort of
gets lost, almost like from whatyou came with to the vision.
(28:20):
Now it's really hard for me tolike bridge that in my mind,
cause I just it doesn't evenexist to me anymore, like what
asked for.
So what did you ask?
Karin Riley (28:28):
for I don't.
I don't remember what Ioriginally asked for either,
because we've talked about it somuch and it's changed so much
in the past two years.
Right, instead of doing and no,I'm not a bouquet person I am
not a bouquet person in my life,when I had a house that had a
yard and gardens, they werecrazy gardens.
Right, they were cottagegardens, with things pouring out
(28:50):
of the flower beds.
That's what's beautiful to me.
Right Is the abundance and theoverwhelming contained space.
That, to me, that's living.
Right, and maybe that goes backto my childhood.
I don't know, I haven'tanalyzed that.
(29:11):
It doesn't matter, but thatwhat we talked about has changed
over time and when, when wehave put something on my body
the placement, the color, theresponse that other people have
(29:34):
had to it my husband loves them,right, I love them.
My friends who have seen themabsolutely think they're
gorgeous.
Every single person asks who didthem?
Right, like that to me is areally big deal.
It's not just oh, that's areally cool tattoo.
It's like oh, my God, who didyour tattoo?
Where is that from and why?
(29:57):
Would I not want more of that?
You know, if it makes me feelgood and it makes me like the
way my body looks even more.
Me like the way my body lookseven more.
Why not?
It's the same reason when I wasworking out five days a week
(30:19):
that I worked out.
I love the way I looked, I lovethe way that I moved, I love
the way that it made me feelabout myself.
Micah Riot (30:28):
So if tattoos can do that, heck yeah yeah, that's
fair, but that's not what mostpeople do, you know, and so
that's like another way thatyou're not so basic after all I
was gonna say that's okay peopleright, not so basic after all,
um, but yeah, like you reallyhave sort of given well, given
(30:49):
me a lot of space and scope towork with um, but also yourself,
you know, I don't.
I think when people limitthemselves to like, you know,
here's, I just want it this bigand I want it over here and it
has to just be contained in thatspace.
You know it's not me, they'relimiting, it's themselves.
Yeah, right, and so I try totalk them out of it sometimes,
(31:10):
like, well, if you kind of letit grow more organically, it's
going to be more pretty, it'sgoing to belong on your body
more.
But people have a reallycertain idea.
Like tattoos are okay as longas they're, you know, this big
and take up this much space anddon't take over, and aren't you
know too?
Take up this much space anddon't take over, and aren't you
(31:31):
know too?
Karin Riley (31:31):
Nobody can see it through my work shirt.
It's not going to show up ifI'm wearing a tank top, For sure
.
Yeah, when are you even doingit?
Yeah, why I?
Just that's not.
Again, it's just not who I am.
And when I look at myself whenI'm working out, you know if
(31:53):
there's a mirror in front of meor I can see my reflection when
I'm working out and the magnoliathat I have on my shoulder,
that pedal right and I know youare really conscious of
placement.
I don't know if everyone elsethinks about that, but the way
that that pedal hits my shoulder, it moves so beautifully.
(32:15):
And again, I know it may soundsilly, but if the placement of a
tattoo can make me want to domore chest presses or more
military presses, great, it'sjust going to make the whole
thing more beautiful it's.
Micah Riot (32:36):
I mean, it's a really powerful thing.
I think you know, like how yousee your body and if there's
something that you're if it's atattoo or if it's an outfit
you're wearing that makes youfeel like really good and
powerful and attractive and allthat Like yeah, like those
things are really helpful.
They're tools in helping us getwhere we want to go, right.
Karin Riley (32:58):
Absolutely yeah.
The clothing, the, the tattoos,the haircut, the makeup,
whatever it is.
If something makes you feelbetter about who you are, I
fully support that.
That's one of the things I dowith my volunteer work, right.
(33:19):
Helping people be comfortablein who they are, helping them
maintain their lives right.
What's important to them intheir lives.
That's really, really importantto me.
So, yeah, now that I can do itfor myself.
Micah Riot (33:33):
I will.
Will you tell us more about thevolunteer work?
Tell those sinners about yourvolunteer work.
Karin Riley (33:38):
Yeah, I volunteer.
I volunteer several places, butwhere I am most active is with
a program in San Franciscocalled the Shanti Project and
their sister program called PAWS, which is an acronym.
Pets Are Wonderful Support, andit started in the late 80s for
(34:00):
folks experiencing AIDS who werein the hospital dying of this
new cancer.
Right, there wasn't a name forit.
They didn't, there wasn't aname for it, and they just
needed someone to sit and listento them.
Right, these were people whowere being told they were not
going to survive and so many ofthem didn't.
(34:24):
And so it's.
It's being a volunteer, beingpaired with or matched with
someone in the city who needssupport, and it's not just folks
who are or were.
Maybe their virus levels can nolonger be detected, which is
fantastic.
Women with cancer, folks withinthe LGBTQIA plus community who
(35:01):
are aging and need physicalassistance with shopping or
cleaning or just need someone tospend time with.
Right, Because a lot of thesefolks have lost friends and, you
know, I think everyone whoreally cares about anybody in
the LGBTQ community understandsthat they may also have lost
(35:22):
their family.
You know, family members justdon't Whether you are in the
community or not.
Family isn't forever.
You know, that's just not athing, and so if I can provide
that support um to someone, Iabsolutely will.
So I've been working with themsince 2017, since I moved to the
(35:47):
city and now I also helpfacilitate training so that, as
new people come into the program, I get to work with folks who
are, who are training.
Micah Riot (35:58):
Do you still see clients Like you have like a
some amount of folks that yousee on some regular basis?
Karin Riley (36:05):
I don't have a um, a single aligned client right
now.
My client passed it's been twoyears ago actually and I haven't
felt ready to take on anyoneelse.
We were paired for three orfour years and we're very close
(36:30):
and that was hard.
It was really hard for me, notin that he was ready to go.
It was the right time, that'sokay.
He's with his old boy.
Him leaving was okay.
What was hard for me wasopening up that much time and
(37:03):
space long-term to someone else.
So I've done short-term andmore of the pause.
So the on the pet side, it'shelping people who maybe can't
walk or because they are onchemo or unwell, it's not safe
for them to clean up after theanimals.
You know doing that kind ofthing and also delivering food
(37:25):
to people.
Micah Riot (37:26):
So you would basically come in for pet care,
yeah, okay, yeah, and like walktheir dog and like walk their
dog.
Karin Riley (37:34):
I I have.
You know this as well.
I have um animal rescueexperience.
So if somebody needs a cat whohas needs to be pilled every day
at two o'clock, I'll I'll go dothat or subcutaneous fluids, or
taking someone's dog to the vetfor a vet appointment.
Because they're not mobile,they can't leave their apartment
(37:57):
or go that far or be out oftheir apartment for that long a
period of time.
I'll take their pet to the vetfor them.
Micah Riot (38:06):
Yeah, yeah, that is a really serious commitment to
humanity, yeah that is a reallyserious commitment to humanity.
Karin Riley (38:18):
It's so life-changing for the person
you're helping and honestly,again, I have the time, I have
the ability to do this.
If it's going to make someoneelse's life that much better,
why would I not do it?
I can spend an afternoon withan absolutely adorable there's.
(38:39):
There's one client whose dogI've taken to the vet several
times and the dog's name issugar and she is the sweetest,
you know.
I go to pick her up and she'shappy to see me and she's happy
to get in the car and she'shappy to go to the vet and she's
happy to walk out of the vetand she's happy to get in the
car and she's happy to go to thevet and she's happy to walk out
of the vet and she's happy toget home to her mom and it's
like there is nothing bad aboutthat.
Micah Riot (38:58):
There's no bad in that.
How big is Sugar?
Is she white?
Karin Riley (39:02):
Of course she's a white little mini poodle, I
don't know.
She's a little white curlyhaired, uh, munchkin, and I
would guess she's maybe justunder 20 pounds.
She's not as big as our catsused to be, so she's under 20
pounds, yeah I love the wayyou're smiling talking about
(39:25):
this stuff like this work it's abig deal, you, I love it.
Micah Riot (39:30):
When was the first time you were exposed to the
realities of folks living withAIDS and queerness?
How big of a deal that is inour world, and it's becoming
less so.
But when were you first sort offound out that there were
people who were different inthose ways and shunned by
(39:50):
society because of it?
Different in those?
Karin Riley (39:52):
ways and shunned by society because of it.
In the 80s, very early on, mymom was a nurse.
She worked as a nurse andalways did well.
(40:18):
I was living at home.
She always did women's care,usually labor and delivery or
something to do with sexualhealth and early on nurses were
aware that something washappening and there were
patients I was too young toreally be able to compare it to
COVID right Patients that peopledidn't want to touch, patients
(40:42):
that people didn't want to treat.
But I knew that there wassomething that was not right and
I did not grow up in a veryprogressive area, so the idea
that sick people who needed helpwere not being cared for didn't
(41:02):
sit well with me.
And I think I definitely hadfriends who I knew were gay in
high school, but I went to aCatholic high school so it was
not a topic of conversation.
And when I got to college we hadfriends who were gay and who
were out, which was greatbecause they were.
(41:24):
It was nice to live in a placewhere people were comfortable
with that, comfortable in beingwho they were, where people were
comfortable with that,comfortable in being who they
were and could be who they werewith their friends openly.
And then I lived in New Yorkfor a year after college and
that was in the mid nineties, sothere was a very big gay
(41:45):
presence.
So yeah, I guess probably themost exposure I had was when I
was in New York.
That was the most variety ofpeople, you know.
Having the older gay couplethat lived down the street and
working with people who were gayand then having city events
(42:07):
around pride, that was probablythe most um, the broadest
exposure to different gayculture, the first time I had
been exposed.
And then I don't know, how comethat was.
Micah Riot (42:33):
That was the sort of cause that you really poured
your energy into, as opposed toaddiction or women's domestic
violence, other kinds of bigcauses that you probably also
weren't really aware of yeah,really good question.
Karin Riley (42:47):
I think women's violence for me hit a little too
close to home.
I think women's violence for mehit a little too close to home.
That would have beenexceptionally challenging for me
(43:08):
to reconcile with my ownexperience.
What I grew up with.
That has taken me a really longtime to face on my own.
So I think doing anythingpublicly would have been too
hard and I still get very, veryangry.
I saw a meme the other day.
Every woman has a friend whohas an ancient rage inside of
her, usually directed at men.
I'm probably that friend for alot of people and, yeah, that
(43:34):
would have been too close and mysister was an addict, so I
think again, that would havebeen just a little close, yeah,
and I'm very aware of that as anadult.
Right, there are things that Ican manage and handle because I
(43:57):
still protect myself at somelevel.
Um, but I do feel like this issomething I've really opened
myself up to since moving to thecity and I love being here.
I just love being in an areawhere everyone has the
(44:19):
opportunity to celebrate whothey are.
And I know it's not perfect,you know, I'm not blind to the
fact that it is still extremelychallenging, but we are very
fortunate here that we have theresources that we do, we have
the parades that we do.
(44:40):
Um, yeah, yeah, it's.
It's a very different worldwhen I hear people who have
lived in the Bay area for mostof their lives, or at least
since they've been out, who talkabout wanting to move to
different places.
Um, you know, remove I, youknow I grew up on the East coast
, so I think of moving back Eastas a really challenging thing
(45:04):
to do.
You know, it's just notculturally, it's just not the
same.
Micah Riot (45:11):
Even like New York and like places like that.
Karin Riley (45:16):
From my experience.
Yeah, yeah, I mean, that's myexperience.
Everyone has a differentexperience and I was definitely
not part of any groups when Iwas living in New York.
You know that were as involved.
Micah Riot (45:34):
Well, you also had a lot less like personal
resources at that time and allthe way.
Karin Riley (45:39):
Yeah, that's totally true.
Yeah, yeah, I couldn't feedmyself, I didn't have the
ability to, you know, to joinanything else.
But, um, I definitely had a lotmore fire when I was a kid.
You know, when I was younger Ihad a lot more energy to be
outraged about things and speakup about things, and I think it
(45:59):
comes from a different place.
It comes from a place of love.
Micah Riot (46:02):
Now, yeah, I hear that.
I mean there's also just, Ithink as you get older you see
the complexity of things thatmakes it a lot harder to just
yell one specific thing.
So the structures that be areso strong that exhausting
yourself, fighting against themisn't necessarily the best use
(46:23):
of our energy and time.
I think that's a part of it too.
But it's always refreshing tohear people who are going to
transplant to California and Iam also, but I've been here
since I was 12, more or lesslike when we came from Russia.
So I kind of feel like if I aman American, I'm a Californian.
Karin Riley (46:43):
Yeah.
Micah Riot (46:44):
And how much I dream about going to the East Coast
and kind of imagine it and youknow, having lived in Ohio for a
time when I was in college,having that kind of
romanticizing the change inweather, you know, changing
seasons and the red leaves ofthe fall and like the blossoms
of the spring, and we have thathere a little bit right, but
it's so subtle, and so Iromanticize East Coast in a way
(47:09):
of like I am from a place thathas that and I think about that,
like how awesome would be tolike move back East and have a
more chill life, like a less ofa hustle life.
Karin Riley (47:21):
Yeah, and it's so not right Like you.
Micah Riot (47:24):
Well, I don't know Right, but to hear you, in New
York has a chill life?
Karin Riley (47:29):
Yeah, no, not New York.
I do not, I do not want to bein the city of New York has a
chill life?
Yeah, no, not New.
Micah Riot (47:31):
York.
I do not want to be in the cityof New York or the city of
Boston.
I don't want to be in a bigcity.
My idea is more like WesternMass or like upstate New York.
Karin Riley (47:40):
Grew up in Western Mass and aside from Northampton
there is not much that is chillthere.
Micah Riot (47:46):
Northampton is kind of where I want to be.
Northampton is awesome, yeah, Iknow, but I think, yeah, I
think it's an interesting thingto just like listen to you and
like some other folks who arereally happy to be here.
It's actually pretty rare tohear somebody talk about how
stoked they are to be here,because most of us just grumble
about how difficult it is, howmuch crime there is and how the
(48:11):
disparity in class just makesthings so desperate.
And how difficult it is howmuch crime there is and how the
disparity in class just makesthings so desperate and how
difficult it is to see how muchlike misery and poverty there is
.
Karin Riley (48:19):
Right Like but I also feel like there's an
opportunity to affect it.
Micah Riot (48:23):
Yeah, and that's that's.
That's the refreshing piece.
Karin Riley (48:26):
Yeah, and that's what I see is different.
Right, it's not that.
It's not that there aren'thomeless people.
It's not that there aren'thomeless people.
It's not that there isn't crimeyeah, but it's.
There are resources for peoplehere and I can go to Project
Open Hand and volunteer for aday and know that the work I've
(48:49):
done is going to feed 100 people.
I didn't have the opportunityto do that back East.
They wanted money.
They wanted money Anyorganization that I came across
and again, this was myexperience.
(49:10):
This may have been where Ilived, but it's not that I
didn't look, it's not that Ididn't try.
It was all sure, if you want tomake a donation, we'll take a
donation, Unless you have a tonof money.
That's just not an option.
Micah Riot (49:26):
And it's also not fulfilling.
There's a moment when you go,okay, I gave some money and it
felt nice to give some money,but then you're like, oh, is the
money going to establishing anoffice somewhere?
That's going to push papersaround that are about the people
we're trying to help.
It's not actually about thepeople.
I hear that totally.
You know, and like, during thepandemic I had more time and I
volunteered for the Alameda foodbank and it was so fun, Like it
(49:50):
was such a good time.
Yeah, I did it for a while, Idon't know a year or something
and then I started to feel likeI couldn't like physically do it
anymore.
I had some foot pain and I justcouldn't stand on my feet like
that for a day and I stopped.
Of course, now they send meemails or mail being like how
(50:12):
about you give us some money?
Karin Riley (50:14):
Yeah, I get those too right.
I volunteer for the city doinggrocery shopping for people.
During the pandemic the citypartnered with the Shanti
Project so anyone who had been avolunteer, who had actually
gone through a background check,could pick up gift certificates
(50:34):
to Safeway and it was $50 perfamily and you had a list of
groceries that they needed forthe week.
And I found out that I am stillreally good at shopping on a
budget.
I always came in at $50 or justbelow $50.
I think twice I added a fewcents to cover taxes and then
(50:59):
drop groceries off at people'sdoorsteps and it was.
It was so much fun, right, likebeing out, and it was scary.
I'm not going to lie, being inthe grocery store with other
people was a little scary, but Ialso knew I was double masked
(51:20):
and I was gloved and you know Ibefore we knew that we didn't
have to clean our groceries.
You know I always had a jar ofClorox wipes with me in the car
and I would wipe everything downwhen I put it down on someone's
porch.
So they were picking up cleanbags and that sort of thing.
But yeah, it's a very immediateway to give back.
(51:40):
That's also how we got intoanimal rescue.
You know, when we were on theEast Coast and I couldn't
literally couldn't find a grouplocally to volunteer with to
help people, we startedfostering dogs because that was
a very immediate thing thatwould make a difference, because
(52:01):
that was a very immediate thingthat would make a difference.
And, yeah, we can't continuethat out here because of where
we live.
There's an HOA.
Here's a Karen who's not a fanof HOAs.
There's an HOA rule in ourneighborhood that you can't have
more than two dogs perhousehold.
Micah Riot (52:16):
Otherwise you'd have more.
I'm sure, oh God, yeah, yeah,have more.
I'm sure.
Oh god, yeah, yeah, okay, sowhat is your personal recipe to
fulfilling life?
Oh, that sounds likevolunteering is in there yeah
for what?
Karin Riley (52:37):
else personally, um , personally, my family and
friends, my husband, you and Ihave talked about this before.
Right, I found my person soearly in life and I am so
fortunate to have done that.
So, maintaining my family,maintaining the friendships that
(53:03):
I have, that are reallyimportant to me, paying it
forward.
Micah Riot (53:11):
So volunteering.
Karin Riley (53:13):
Volunteering.
Maybe this still isvolunteering, but being involved
in my local community andpaying attention to what's
happening in the local community.
So that's kind of volunteering,but it's also, I think, just
being a good good citizen.
(53:36):
Yeah, a good citizen, a goodneighbor.
I think it's more than citizen,because it's not about the city
, it's about the people,neighbor yeah dogs dogs, cats,
animals, just animals in general.
Um, I don't know, that's athat's a tough question for me.
Micah Riot (53:59):
Art.
Karin Riley (54:00):
Art, food, music, all of the things, micah, all of
the things, actually.
Maybe that's what it is, maybeit's variety.
You can have all of the things,yeah.
I can have all of the things.
I allow it.
Thank you, yeah, can you tattooall of the things on my body?
Micah Riot (54:18):
for me.
You want all of the things.
I thought you just called itflowers, we things on my body
for me.
Karin Riley (54:22):
So you want all of the things I thought you just
called it flowers we might haveto throw a ladybug in there okay
, yeah, okay, we can do that.
Micah Riot (54:28):
If you want some bugs, I think they belong with
flowers.
Karin Riley (54:31):
They're interdependent, they have
community together yeah yeah, Ialso feel like you need a back
piece oh yeah, the flowers aregoing to go all the way around
to the back there's going to besomething, but there's something
about like a whole piece, acohesive like a back piece, like
(54:52):
not just like tattoos on yourback, but like a full back piece
.
There's something to me abouteven especially a person who
looks like a middle-aged whitelady named Karen even,
especially a person who looks.
Micah Riot (55:08):
Like a middle-aged white lady named Karen Sure,
librarian.
I'll just, I'll just stand inof that for like librarian right
, like just somebody who is likeproper, somebody who little
kids will approach and littleladies will approach and who
just looks very like innocentand respectable and societally
appropriate right respectable.
Karin Riley (55:26):
So you're saying I look respectable.
I appreciate that well, why not?
Micah Riot (55:31):
but you know, like it's like somebody who doesn't
look like they'd have like, andI guess a back piece to me
signifies very seriouscommitment to tattoos, almost to
a different extent, because youcan't see it yourself, so it's
not really it is for you, likethey're all for us, like no
tattoos are before other people,but it's, there's an energetic
(55:53):
difference to that.
Like you have this yeah big,beautiful canvas right.
This is the biggest piece ofskin you have.
It's the most you can do in abody besides a full body piece,
which is another I guess, typeof more extreme thing.
But there's something aboutsomebody who just doesn't look.
Maybe that same librarian ladyhas a little wrist piece or a
(56:13):
little you know ankle piece orsomething, but like if when she
takes off her little blazer withthe buttons and you can see the
sweater and there's a full assback piece and it's like bold
and it's big and it's you know,there's something about that
that I just think is so greatand it's that unexpected for me.
I think it's like the surprisein a person.
Karin Riley (56:37):
I see that and I do agree with you.
I think back pieces arebeautiful.
I see that and I do agree withyou.
I think back pieces arebeautiful.
Having now been tattooed onmultiple areas of my body, I
also have so much more respectfor people who have tattoos on
(56:58):
the fronts of their bodies,because the belly, the breasts
and the ribs the worst.
Yeah, like that to me.
Those are the people who aresuper tough.
Like those.
Those are the areas where Ithought it was going to be
(57:20):
easier, because there was morebody fat.
Micah Riot (57:26):
And now there there are more nerves, more nerve
endings there.
Karin Riley (57:28):
Yeah, you can do my back.
Micah Riot (57:31):
That's going to be nothing.
After you've done the front ofmy back, I don't necessarily
think that you know what you'retalking about.
Karin Riley (57:35):
No, probably not I have.
I have one magnolia and abranch on the back of my no, I
mean, you know what you'retalking about.
Micah Riot (57:42):
You know that shit fucking hurts, but the back can
surprisingly be difficult.
Yeah, it can be, and I have aback piece that is full and it
definitely were sessions thatfelt fine.
And then there were sessionsthat were just fucking agony.
And Corey, my artist he workslonger sessions that I usually
(58:03):
do, so I think there's salvationthere for my clients, as people
usually get away with likethree hours tops for me where
you know I have sat for likefour, four and a half with him
and it gets.
It gets spicy, but you're toughlike you can fucking do it.
But just so you know, know theback can.
Oh, I'm sure I don't think anyof it's going to be easy, but
(58:26):
also it's Well, it's also easy,because it's like bringing you
closer to who you are on theinside.
Karin Riley (58:31):
And it's chosen.
Yeah, this is, this is chosen.
I know what I'm asking for.
This is not a surprise, um, butalso it's such a nice
environment.
You know like, yeah, I, I'masking somebody to stab me
(58:52):
repeatedly until the top layerof my skin is gone.
I'm gonna have a greatconversation.
Sailor is there now?
And is there anyone who doesn'tlove Sailor?
Micah Riot (59:07):
I mean there's not.
Karin Riley (59:09):
Lulu is there.
Sometimes there's nothing badabout being there.
You're going to make a cup oftea for me.
You're going to tell me to havea lollipop.
We're going to talk about food.
We're going to talk about dogs.
We're going to talk about lovelives.
Going to talk about dogs.
We're going to talk about lovelives.
It's it's a really nice placeto be.
It's a great way to spend timeI love that.
Micah Riot (59:32):
That is the kind of environment that it is that
someone like you feels good andsafe and held there.
That's that's what it's for.
Yeah, that's what it's aboutand what I said earlier about
you don't know what you'retalking about.
I need to recant that Everytattoo you've gotten has been on
the most sensitive of places inthe body.
You literally have coveredfirst the most sensitive places
(59:55):
in the body, so that's not whatI meant.
You clearly very much knowabout tattoo pain.
Karin Riley (01:00:00):
Yeah, I mean it's fine.
I also appreciate that youalways tell me what I'm getting
into too, and I've never had myknees done.
I haven't done anything on myknee.
I'm guessing the back of theknee or the top of the calf
would also be spicy.
Micah Riot (01:00:17):
I think the back of the knee you're right is up
there, and then the feet the topof the tops of the knee, you're
right, is up there, and thenthe feet, the tops of the feet.
Karin Riley (01:00:24):
The ankle bone was not cool, that was not fun.
Yeah, that was not fun.
Micah Riot (01:00:30):
Yeah, I have some ankle stuff.
I don't have anything on thetops of my feet and I feel like
that would be hell.
The neck this might besomething that might be
happening this year for me is mybest friend and I've been
friends since we were in ourearly twenties and she reminded
me this year.
She said remember when you saidthat when we turn 40, we'll get
(01:00:50):
our next tattooed, and I waslike you're overdue, I know,
right, I'm overdue by a coupleof days.
Um, I was like happy birthday,by the way, thank you, thank you
.
Um, it's been a good birthday,by the way, thank you.
Thank you, it's been a goodbirthday.
But I was like I did say that.
Okay, I don't remember, but Ibelieve you and I'm down, and so
(01:01:10):
we've started talking aboutwhat and when.
Her birthday is in November, soI don't feel like we need to
rush, but maybe between now andhers or right after hers or
something we can approach thatproject, since there's a lot of
projects this year, did youagree on where on the neck
(01:01:30):
they're not matching?
It's just our necks Like.
It's just a matter of like.
We're 40.
We're established in our livesmore or less.
I mean, things can changealways, you know.
But that she and I both feltlike at 40 we'll be ready for
like a very visible, moreserious kind of a, a socially
(01:01:50):
unacceptable tattoo.
And you know, like I've hadthings done now my hands that I
feel like you know in my 20swould have felt maybe not yet
appropriate.
Yeah, yeah, that's just a stageof life I was at, but um, yeah,
I mean I feel like I'm.
I love a neck tattoo.
(01:02:11):
Liz is gonna have a hard timewith it, but she'll have to get
over it yeah, she loves you.
Karin Riley (01:02:16):
She does love your tattoo she will.
Micah Riot (01:02:20):
Just you know, there's some people that really
interconnect tattoos.
She's not one of them myhusband again.
Karin Riley (01:02:26):
This will date us horribly um.
Micah Riot (01:02:29):
My husband had an eyebrow piercing back in the day
and I hated it really I really,really did, I really did I feel
like the eyebrow piercing ofthe 90s, though they have this
connotation of like a surfer boy.
Was that what it was, or was itsomething else?
Karin Riley (01:02:47):
Actually, no, he wasn't a surfer boy, but that's
why he ended up losing thepiercing, because he was surfing
and he wiped out it.
Ripped out, no, it got sand init, okay, and so he had to have
it like surgically cleaned up.
He's got a scar from it, yeahyeah, and you were.
Micah Riot (01:03:10):
You were like I'm sorry that you're suffering, but
like glad you don't have thepiercing anymore yeah, I.
Karin Riley (01:03:16):
I don't remember how the conversation exactly
went, but it was very much that.
Yeah, that's too bad.
Can I drive you?
Micah Riot (01:03:25):
well, don't like, don't worry, I'm not, I'm not
angling to put a neck necktattoo on you because I don't.
I don't actually think thatwould be the right thing for you
territory that got a reallylong neck like that you do.
But that's not.
It's not about neck length,it's just a style thing.
I just feel like it would.
I mean a lady, I mean a littlebit, but I like don't see you
(01:03:46):
with, like you know, some darklike neck tattoo situation, but
I do see you with like a fullback piece of sleeve, like those
kinds of things.
Karin Riley (01:03:55):
Great.
Micah Riot (01:03:56):
Yeah.
Karin Riley (01:03:56):
You're going to have to put up with me for a
really long time.
Micah Riot (01:04:04):
I would love to please, please, I would love to
put up with you for a very, verylong time.
Good, you're stuck.
Good, I'm going to ask you mykind of standard last question.
Karin Riley (01:04:17):
I have an answer.
Micah Riot (01:04:19):
Good, I'm going to ask it.
Great, what's a small thingthat's been making you happy
lately?
Karin Riley (01:04:24):
I got new sheets.
I got linen sheets and I amabsolutely loving them.
Micah Riot (01:04:33):
What color?
Karin Riley (01:04:35):
They're white.
Okay, just plain white, butit's the texture and the fact
that we've had this conversationtoo.
I sleep hot right.
Menopause is not a joke, andsheets that are heavy or sticky
are horrible right now, and thelinen sheets have enough body to
(01:04:58):
them that they don't like stick.
Micah Riot (01:05:05):
They have an airy shape to them, almost like
there's pockets of air in theirstructure.
Karin Riley (01:05:10):
Yes, and they have been fantastic.
Micah Riot (01:05:16):
Are you a top sheet girly or no?
Karin Riley (01:05:19):
I am, yeah, I've always been a top sheet person.
Micah Riot (01:05:25):
It's not something I grew up with.
So when we moved here and Iwould go to someone else's house
or you know a hotel and I'dalways be like I'm tangled up in
this thing, I can't move.
Karin Riley (01:05:35):
I hate this yes, I don't like.
I am so picky.
There are so many things I'mpicky about, micah.
I don't like this tucked in.
I don't like I am so picky.
There are so many things I'mpicky about, micah.
I don't like the sheet tuckedin.
I don't want my feet trapped.
Micah Riot (01:05:47):
Yeah, no, no, tucked in.
Karin Riley (01:05:48):
I agree, but I also don't like the sheets to be
messy, so I'm one of thosepeople that pulls the sheets up
tight, pulls the duvet up andthen folds the sheets over the
top of the duvet.
Micah Riot (01:05:59):
So you have like that A barrier for your face and
stuff.
Karin Riley (01:06:04):
Yeah, and it doesn't.
The sheets don't move that waybecause they're wrapped around.
Micah Riot (01:06:09):
Well, they don't move that way, because you
probably don't move that much.
But if you fight with your bed,the entire night, several times
that I sleep like a corpse.
So I will fight my bed.
Karin Riley (01:06:21):
Fighting for a good night's sleep, yeah.
Micah Riot (01:06:29):
Where did you get your sheets?
People might want to know.
Karin Riley (01:06:33):
I hesitate to say this because I'm afraid to say I
haven't done a lot of researchon the company.
Micah Riot (01:06:39):
Okay, you don't have to.
We can keep it secret.
Find your own damn sheets,people.
Karin Riley (01:06:44):
I'll tell you, but I want you to take it out if
they're not sustainable.
I'm going to look it up as soonas possible?
Micah Riot (01:06:48):
No, no, no, don't tell me.
Tell me, when we tattoo.
Karin Riley (01:06:50):
Right, you can always add it to the comments
later.
Micah Riot (01:07:01):
Yeah, and because I was person about the seat that
you get slightly that one's notas big for me.
Karin Riley (01:07:11):
Where I sit is not as important to me.
If there are just two of us,we're weirdos.
James and I sit on the sameside of the table or sit next to
each other instead of eachother yeah, liz, and I do that
too yeah it.
It's easier to have aconversation that way too.
You're not shouting across atable.
I don't have to be the personwho sits facing the door or
(01:07:35):
anything like that.
If I'm traveling alone, I'mmore picky about it, but no,
it's not a huge issue to me.
Micah Riot (01:07:43):
Okay, my curiosity was satisfied.
Good yeah, thank you so muchfor coming on the podcast.
You're the best.
There's nothing basic about youat all.
I love you to pieces and I'mreally really happy that you
found me.
Karin Riley (01:08:00):
I'm happy to have found you too.
I'm happy you accepted me asyour client.
I'm really, really happy thatyou found me.
I'm happy to have found you too.
I'm happy you accepted me asyour client.
Micah Riot (01:08:05):
I'm rolling my eyes right now.
Thank you.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Special Summer Offer: Exclusively on Apple Podcasts, try our Dateline Premium subscription completely free for one month! With Dateline Premium, you get every episode ad-free plus exclusive bonus content.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.