May 3, 2024 • 60 mins
Ayden Love is a total Love.
I met Ayden in my tattooing studio when a good friend of mine brought her to get tattooed by me. I put a matching set of tattoos on the two of them. One for "Daddy" and one for "babygirl".
And if you know me, you know how happy that made me.
I love ritual. I love relationships. I love overt power exchange. I love tattoos.
I asked Ayden to come on the podcast and tell me about their journey. And in the process we touched upon as much kink as I myself could handle on this here public forum, as well as ritualistic tattooing. We also talked about Ayden's dislike of eggs and therefore most breakfast dishes, how she got her formidable social media following while not being all that into social media, some of our favorite shows, and I even got some tips on guest spotting. And their small joy at the end of the episode gave me all sorts of happy fuzzy sensory memories.
Ayden works out of their own private studio in Durham, NC, and can be easily found on their website: http://www.thetinyfire.com/
or on instagram:
https://www.instagram.com/the_tinyfire/
You can connect with me, Micah Riot, as well as see my tattoo art on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/micahriot/
Micah's website is www.micahriot.com
The podcast is hosted on Buzzsprout but truly lives in the heart of Micah's website at:
https://www.micahriot.com/ink-medicine-podcast/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Micah Riot (00:00):
Hello, my darlings, this is Micah Riot with another
episode of Ink Medicine Podcast.
It is May 2nd or May 3rd or May4th, whenever you decide to
listen to this episode, andtoday I am interviewing a new
friend of mine named Aiden Love.
Aiden is a tattoo artist, asouthern femme, a Leo, a witch,
(00:26):
a mom and the baby girl of oneof my friends.
In fact, the way I met her wasthrough this friend of mine, who
brought her to me to tattoo aset of magical, ritualistic,
kinky tattoos for her baby girland for my friend Daddy.
If you know me, you know thatthis made me very happy because
(00:49):
I love ritual, I loveauthenticity, I love
relationships and I love play.
So let's get into it.
Introduce yourself with, likeyour pronouns and your, some of
(01:26):
your identities and yourfavorite thing to eat for
breakfast oh, wow, um, I'm aidenI use she her pronouns um.
Ayden Love (01:38):
Some of my relevant these include being a queer
femme, genderqueer, southerner,a parent, a white person and a
witch, and I really struggled toeat breakfast because most
(02:03):
breakfast foods I associate withbeing eggs, which I hate, or
sweet things.
So anything that is a savoryfood that's not egg based is my
favorite breakfast food, ormaybe my breakfast.
Micah Riot (02:14):
My favorite favorite breakfast food is just lunch
that you know what you can eatlike lunch, for breakfast, like
there's no rule.
So you've you.
Have you always hated eggs?
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Yeah, I mean they're kind ofweird.
I get it like I like themmyself, but they're like a weird
concept yeah, I think it's morejust like they're really
(02:38):
sulfury and weird.
Ayden Love (02:42):
Yeah, but when I was pregnant, the first time I it
was the only thing I craved,which was really weird because I
had this like cognitivedissonance where I was eating
them and knowing that Itheoretically hated them I
cannot imagine what that wouldbe like it's like getting your
body hijacked by some otherliving being.
Micah Riot (03:01):
That is that is that is wild.
So then, like the second, youlike the kid came out, you were
like, okay, I hate eggs again.
Ayden Love (03:09):
It only lasted for the first trimester, okay, yeah.
Micah Riot (03:14):
Amazing.
Yeah, so you're a tattoo artist.
Yes, how long have you beentattooing?
Ayden Love (03:21):
I think I've been tattooing six going on seven
years.
Micah Riot (03:27):
And how did you come to?
Ayden Love (03:29):
it.
So an ex-partner of mine justgave me a tattoo machine for
Christmas one year and I came upin the era of tattooing where
that was very frowned upon, so Ihad a hard time receiving the
gift because that's not howyou're supposed to do it.
(03:49):
Um, but that particular partnerwas, um, I'll say, from a
different class bracket than Iwas and had a lot more
entitlement to whatever the fuckthey wanted.
So they were like you can doanything and I was like that's
against the rules and they kindof like bleed me into starting
(04:09):
to tattoo our friends.
Um, and that's how it started.
Micah Riot (04:15):
And then what like?
Did you end up in a shop?
Did you end up getting likeformal training?
How, how did you continue?
Ayden Love (04:24):
you continue.
So most of it was justself-taught, trial and error
with lovers and friends.
And then I went through aparticularly like rough year
where a lot of traumatic thingshappened and the career that I
was previously in becamesomewhat triggering to me while
(04:45):
I was navigating some healthissues and I needed a job really
quick.
So it kind of just became mylike side hustle that turned
into my full-time job over thecourse of about a year.
I never had any officialtraining from anyone but was um
(05:07):
a woman in the town where I livewho I would like go over to her
house and she would talk methrough some technical aspects.
We did that a few times um, butI have a background in health
care so I had a grasp on all ofthe sort of safety um issues
that one would be concerned with.
(05:27):
All the bloodborne pathogenstuff was not unfamiliar to me
and I've been an artist my wholelife, so it was really learning
sort of the technical side ofthings.
But most of my learning hascome from trial and error and
being in community with otherself-taught tattooers and
occasionally other officialapprentice tattooers that are
willing to share their widerbreadth of knowledge.
Micah Riot (05:51):
Yeah, this is interesting.
The person who would allow youto come to their house and talk
you through stuff is kind of amentor of yours.
Did you meet them throughtattooing or did you know them
before?
Ayden Love (06:02):
Yeah, I had a friend of mine who was just really,
really amped for me to starttattooing because she's always
been really supportive of my artin general, and she was like oh
you have to meet Stephanie.
I love her, she's tattooed me awhole bunch and Stephanie used
to own a shop in Durham, likesome years prior, and so she
introduced us.
Micah Riot (06:24):
Wonderful.
Are you still friends with thatperson?
Ayden Love (06:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean I think COVID has madeall of our relationships a lot
more distant than they once were, so I haven't seen her in a
while, but we see each other onthe internet from time to time.
Micah Riot (06:41):
So where do you work now?
It's a private studio, or Ihave a private studio in.
Ayden Love (06:44):
Durham yeah, I did work in a shop for about two
years, but it closed last year.
Micah Riot (06:51):
And you're by yourself now.
Ayden Love (06:54):
Yeah, which I honestly much prefer because I
am an introvert.
Micah Riot (07:00):
Yeah, I hear that, but you know it's like, over
time I feel like it got to me.
You know I worked by myself formost of my like 15 years of
tattooing and there comes a timewhen you're like okay, I feel
like I'm living in a bubble andthen, there's like no input and
output, like it's just allinternet and like me.
Ayden Love (07:21):
Yeah, and the internet is a rough place to get
all of your input from internetand, like me, yeah and the
internet is a rough place to getall of your input from.
Micah Riot (07:26):
Yeah, I was like scrolling today and I'm in like
a kind of a PMDD cycle where I'mjust like not at my like
peppiest and I was likescrolling today, I was like this
was designed to make me feelbad, like I literally work
better than me yep every time, Ijust like don't even let myself
scroll anymore because I'm likeI'll quit if I keep scrolling.
Yeah, there's definitely dayswhere I'm like I feel like that,
(07:47):
Like I need to stop, likeunfollow everybody who is like
way better than me and I'llnever be at their level, you
know.
Ayden Love (07:54):
I?
I appreciate that it's not justme out there Sad scrolling.
Micah Riot (08:00):
I assume it's all of us, which is why we're all kind
of like I feel like depressedas a community of humans.
Ayden Love (08:06):
Yeah, not just tattooers, but, like you know,
everyone.
Micah Riot (08:11):
Yeah, because I mean , if you're a creative, you're
following other creatives andyou're like oh, they're doing
amazing, beautiful shit.
And then if you're somebody wholike doesn't think they're
creative, then you're like I'mnot creative.
Ayden Love (08:25):
And look at all these creative people Like it
doesn't think they're creative.
Then you're like I'm notcreative.
And look at all these creativepeople like it's the same, yeah,
or even just like a persontrying to live your life, and
then you're like this person hasenough money to go on vacation,
or this person has enough timeand patience to make crafts with
their kids, or whatever thething that you're doing.
Micah Riot (08:38):
There's just only comparison yeah, it's basically
what it's designed for, right.
It's like part of capitalism tolike make us hustle harder and
like do more and spend money onbetter equipment or whatever.
Ayden Love (08:51):
Yeah, and it's like I get stuck in a trap where, if
I only see the internet for toolong, I forget that other
tattooers can be nice, um, and Ijust assume that they'll all be
scary and mean um, which is whyI really love doing guest spots
, because, while it's terrifyingbefore you get there, usually
you meet people who are reallysweet once you're there.
Have you done a lot of guestspotting?
(09:13):
Yeah, I try to do one every fewmonths, even if it's somewhere
like pretty close by.
Micah Riot (09:20):
Okay, that's, that's interesting.
So, besides, like community,what else do you get out of it?
Ayden Love (09:27):
I love traveling and seeing new places.
Like I just love seeing what anew town is about that I haven't
gotten a chance to explorebefore.
But I honestly usually try togo to cities where I have people
that I already love and don'tget to see very often.
So it's kind of an excuse tovisit people that I care about.
Like I tried a guest spot inSeattle or Tacoma or Portland
(09:51):
somewhere in the Northwest acouple times a year so that I
can see the people that I knewwhen I lived there, just to kind
of offset the insane resourcesneeded to travel.
Micah Riot (10:03):
I kind of love that strategy and I haven't done a
lot of guest guesting.
I've really only done it twiceLike right, I've been tattooing
for a long time.
I've felt like, yeah, peopleare scary.
But when I've guessed that atwalk-in shops you end up doing a
lot of um, infinity symbols, oh, wow, yeah.
I believe that so so I don'tknow, like maybe it's changed.
(10:27):
You know, and I'm um, I'm gonnago do a guest spot in june and
I'm excited and also like alittle bit terrified where are
you going?
I'm going to chicago fun.
I'm going to butterfat studiosum.
Esther garcia, who owns it, islike somebody I've followed for,
like my whole life as atattooer.
Ayden Love (10:45):
And that tattooer is incredible.
Micah Riot (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, like her work, her, her philosophy
around it, her likethoughtfulness, her work in like
kind of equity and tattooing,like she, you know, does color
testing and stuff on likemelanin skin.
Yeah, she's really great and Iam excited and also like
terrified.
Ayden Love (11:05):
Yeah, I bet you'll have a great time I am sure I
will Um yeah, I get, I did aguest spot in Chicago.
It was really fun.
So what did you guess there?
Um, I'm totally blanking on thename of the studio right now.
It'll come to me in a minute.
Micah Riot (11:23):
Okay, so for people who want to guest right Like,
this is one of the perks oftattooing that you can travel
and like work anywhere.
Can you give your like besttips?
Well, sitting out there, whomight be like beginner
tattooists?
Or just not very experiencedguests, guest spotters.
Ayden Love (11:41):
Yeah, I mean I really started out guesting as a
really really new tattooer andprobably gained a lot of my
initial knowledge through goingto shops with artists that were
open to somebody with lessexperience.
Carrie Burke that used to ownHeart of Gold in Hendersonville
gave me my first guest spot andI was like a very fresh first
(12:03):
year tattooer at that point orlike first year of doing it
professionally, and I was alwaysreally surprised at sort of the
openness and generosity of allof the studios that I've guested
at.
But I've really prioritizedstudios and shops that I knew
were other queer people orgender nonconforming people,
people of color, like I neverI've never guest it at some
(12:24):
random trad bro shop.
I don't know what thatexperience would be like.
I'm not super interested inhaving it.
So for me it's just been aboutfinding a shop that you feel
like is in alignment with whatmakes you feel comfortable just
as a person, not even as anartist.
Micah Riot (12:42):
But that might not be everybody's priority, but for
me that's like been the easiestway to combat feeling really
scared of how mean people can be.
Yeah, so what's your approach?
Like what do you do?
You're like, okay, I found theshop it's.
(13:03):
Do you prefer walk-in shops or?
Ayden Love (13:06):
I've never done a walk-in tattoo.
Micah Riot (13:09):
Okay.
Ayden Love (13:10):
Yeah, I've only.
Never done a single walk-intattoo.
Okay, never done a singlewalk-in tattoo Two years in the
shop that we own.
That was a street shop and Ijust did customs and
occasionally we would do largerflash days.
But my way of getting guestspots has just been emailing the
shop and almost always you hearback and I've never been told
(13:32):
no.
I've had some shops that neverresponded, but nobody's ever
been mean to me or been likeyour tattoos suck, you can't
work here.
Which is always.
My worst fear is somebody isgoing to be like you're.
You know, whatever my impostersyndrome will come in and we'll
be like you're not good enough.
Um, but people are alwaysreally sweet and then, um, yeah,
just emailing and being beingready to hear no, but usually
(13:55):
you hear yes and most of themhave a pretty set like guest
policy and you know I usuallysay something about like who I
am.
Like a brief description oflike here's where I'm coming
from.
Here's the type of tattooing Ido.
Um, here are the dates I'minterested in.
Would love to work at your shopand then they'll send back.
(14:16):
Like here's the supplies we doand don't have.
Um, here's how we handlebooking.
Like you're responsible forthis.
You're not responsible for that.
And then what the shop payoutuh structure is like?
Micah Riot (14:30):
and then, as far as booking your clients, do you
then advertise in that town like, do you do like some kind of
paid ad or do you like, forexample, you know, butterfat,
like estra said she'll, she'llpost for me on their like shop
page, which I'm hoping will getsome of the clients that I will
need to fill my time but I'malso like, kind of, how do I
(14:51):
approach that piece of it?
You know, like getting bookedup for the time they're in like
a private studio, because, yeah,there's no welcomes yeah,
definitely.
Ayden Love (14:59):
Um, for me it has mostly just been the internet
and knowing people in towns thatare willing to sort of cross
post for you.
Like the shop posting isusually the most helpful thing
that I've seen if they'rewilling to post like a little
bit before your visit and thenduring your visit if you still
have openings.
And I try to make one or twoflash sheets available for each
(15:23):
guest spot so there's like new,fresh designs to pick from
because people love to see newstuff.
And then you know queers knoweveryone by two degrees of
separation.
So I'm just like who do I knowin Chicago and I'll ask them to
repost something about my visitand usually you can find one or
two of your friends in onedirection where they'll tell
(15:47):
their friends and eventually itbooks it out.
But I do think it's been harderin the last year or so to
really fill out those bookings.
It does feel like it has sloweddown some post the mid COVID
boom of tattooing.
Micah Riot (16:07):
Yeah.
So I'm curious how you'refeeling about that.
Like I keep seeing I definitely, you know, have a there's a
slower flow, like I have a lotless emails coming in, but books
are still full for a little bitahead.
There's been a bunch ofcancellations, whatever seems
kind of normal.
But also like I can feel thatthere's less you know, interest
(16:30):
just the part of like people outthere.
And then I keep seeingtattooers posts like this is the
slowest season ever.
We've just all been sittingaround like no one's books are
full and I'll go and like lookat their instagram and they'll
have like 20 000 followers andand be like I'm just sitting
around and I'm like, okay, well,um, I hope not to get to that
point.
Um, so how are you feeling withwhat is considered, I think,
(16:54):
like the worst recession tattoobusiness?
Ayden Love (16:56):
Yeah, I feel I feel similarly to how you're feeling,
like I think I got reallyspoiled as a tattooer who was
only a couple of years in whenCOVID hit and it was just
consistently packed and peoplewere really clamoring to get in
with every flash post you makeor whatever, or books open or
(17:16):
however you do it.
But now it does stay consistentfor me, like there's never a
day that I'm like I didn't havesomebody.
Today there might be acancellation last minute or
something like that, but it'smore like booking out two months
instead of six or eight monthsor whatever the case may be.
But then my scarcity mindsetcomes in and it's like you
imagined this career and it isfinally disappearing, this thing
(17:38):
that you dreamed of.
But it's helpful when I seeother artists sort of going
through the same thing, that Ithink we're all just kind of
exhausted, you know, spirituallyand in a resource way and in
all of the ways possible, justas humans right now, cause, like
I think, during COVID,everybody went into this mindset
(18:01):
of like, oh, my God, mymortality, like we could all die
and we're all going to end updirt.
So I might as well get thattattoo that I've been dreaming
of, but I've been too scared toget and I would tattoo a lot of
like first time sub suburban,like housewives that were like I
don't know.
I just am like in my housethinking about it and like why
not?
Um, I think now people are justfucking broke because groceries
(18:24):
are a million dollars andnobody has health care and it
just feels harder and harder tolike eke out joy, even in these
really personal, meaningfulrituals that some of us hold
dear, you know.
Micah Riot (18:39):
Yeah.
So when, when that mindsetcomes into play for you, what do
you do Like?
Where do you go with that?
Ayden Love (18:48):
That's a really good question.
So I think my scarcity braintries to tell me to just make
the most appealing like masssort of I don't know like the
thing that will be the mostinteresting to the most people
and put that out there.
(19:08):
But I've been trying to like Idon't know, everybody loves a
flower Like make it reallyaccessible art, make it really
like anybody could look at thisand be like sure I can slap that
sticker on, but it has led meto feeling less inspired by the
work as a whole.
So what I've been trying to dolately is go weirder, and one of
(19:32):
the things that that has led tois that I'm trying to
restructure a few days a monthof my work days to be dedicated
to more ritual style tattooing,where it's more about having an
entire day set aside for oneclient that has a specific
ritual intention that they wantto work with, because I do think
that tattoos most often can befor many people a sort of blood
(19:55):
magic and really respecting themas that, and so those sessions
for me are more about likepeople don't come with a
specific image in mind, theycome with an intention, and we
do a tarot card reading and webuild an altar and we sort of
set those intentions and I drawfrom a more like ritual the
information that we're receivingcollectively in the moment,
(20:16):
rather than I want it to be abutterfly, and that has felt
more fulfilling to me thantrying to just like mass market
myself in a way that feels kindof soul crushing and
(20:40):
capitalistic.
Micah Riot (20:42):
Do you charge differently for those days?
Ayden Love (20:46):
and capitalistic.
Do you charge differently forthose days?
Yeah, I have a set rate becauseI want it to be more about,
like you know the experience,being more honest to what you're
coming for, rather than likeyou sat for so many hours.
So it's like if the tattoo thatyou need is three inches or if
it's a chess piece, I don't wantyou to have to feel like you're
is three inches or if it's achest piece, I don't want you to
have to feel like you'resacrificing what you really need
(21:06):
for a budget.
So it's just sort of like ahere's a day rate and if you're
interested in this, like here'swhat we're doing.
And I have been a massagetherapist for 12 or 13 years now
, and so I offer body work as asort of wrap-up component to it,
doing some craniosacral therapyat the end of the session to
(21:28):
kind of like seal it.
Micah Riot (21:30):
Okay, you still do it afterwards, because
craniosacral is not very likebody heavy, right?
Ayden Love (21:36):
no, no you mean like often you're just holding
somebody's head or their feet orlike maybe their hands.
Micah Riot (21:43):
That's a beautiful component of tattooing.
I love that.
I love the like, thecomprehensive, like we're doing
this like soul, spiritual workand then we're finishing with
the physical mortal shell andloving it and ending it that way
.
That's beautiful.
Ayden Love (22:00):
Yeah, it feels nice Tie a little bow on it.
It also like I don't know.
I've lived so many differentlives that sometimes it feels
kind of compartmentalized andfor me it feels really good to
have several elements of whathas been important to me over
time be present in one place.
Micah Riot (22:18):
So what other details are part of this ritual?
So you have a tarot piece, youhave the bodywork piece, the
tattooing piece, the drawingpiece.
Do you do special food?
What other things?
Do you include.
Ayden Love (22:30):
I think the altar building is a big part of it for
most people and I do agrounding exercise with people,
very light trance work, and thenI've studied very minimally in
herbalism and then I've studiedvery minimally in herbalism
(23:01):
before in the before times andso I try to pair everything with
supportive herbal tea if peopleare wants to call in their
ancestors or whatever the casemay be.
So I really want to meet peoplewhere they're at with their
particular needs for the session.
So some of it I leave open doyou?
Micah Riot (23:19):
okay?
This will be a weird question,but I want to ask it.
Um so kink, okay, I know that,do you?
Is that okay to talk about?
Ayden Love (23:33):
yeah, totally okay.
Micah Riot (23:35):
So kink is magic too , right, it's also blood magic
and body magic and skin magic,like it's part of it.
And also, clearly, we have veryspecific boundaries with our
clients, like it's not arelationship.
So.
But kink to me isn'tnecessarily sexual.
It can be, but it isn't always.
Is there ever a time or waysthat you include kinky energy or
(24:02):
power dynamics or kink rituals,like I think about piercing my
clients, like not piercings andpiercings, right, but like play
piercing?
I think about that like as partof a ritual such as what you're
describing, definitely likedreamed into something like that
(24:22):
, as like part of a tattooritual, like.
What are your thoughts on this?
Ayden Love (24:26):
I think that's so fascinating and this is like
it's so funny to find aspects ofsomething that's already taboo
and then find a such a niche,specific corner of that taboo
thing that it's taboo inside ofthe taboo thing.
And I think combining theelements of kink and tattooing
is as niche as I could imagine,that taboo getting you know,
(24:48):
because so much of it and Ithink maybe this is also
specific to the tattoo culturethat I came up in which is very
queer, it's very consentoriented, it's very aware of
power dynamics.
So if you add that inconjunction with intentional
manipulation of power dynamicsfor kink purposes, like where do
(25:08):
you go with it Right?
So I think it's a fascinatingkind of unexplored territory,
which was a really fun part ofwhen, when I got tattooed by you
, when we came in and got thosematching tattoos cause I was
like, oh, this is the first timethe ritual that I'm going
through is explicit, with theperson that is participating and
(25:29):
making it happen for me, andbeing able to like name that
that was kinky out loud insteadof it having like a private
meaning for me or whatever, wasreally powerful.
So I mean, it definitely seemslike there are ways to go
through that with an intentionand consent that are aware of,
but not exploiting a powerdynamic, but it seems really
unexplored, like what are theways that you've imagined that
(25:52):
looking like in an officialcontext?
Micah Riot (25:55):
I mean in the sense of like tattooing you and your
partner who I will not name, butknowing you have a kinky
relationship and knowing thatperson from um not really a kink
space, but in kink space aswell um, and it was like really
fun for me.
You know, I was like, oh, myfriend's coming in with like
(26:16):
their girl and they're gonna dothis thing and I'll be a part of
it.
Like it's really fun.
It's just like fun and playfuland exciting to me and like um
had like a like, you know notnot like it's not a turn on, but
it's like a turn on in like asoulful way.
You know, it's like thesepeople have this dynamic.
They're both really happy aboutit and I get to participate in
(26:38):
it and it's intimate and so thatpiece is so fun for me.
I've done that before, maybe acouple of times you know, not
very many times and I also getthat, like most people who are
in kink relationships in likepower.
Dynamic relationships are notgoing to just like some tattoo
artists they don't know probablyfor those kinds of tattoos, or
(27:00):
they're doing it and they're notsaying it out loud, like you
said.
You know it's not explicit, butI guess, besides that, that
feels very straightforward to me.
You're my friend, you'rebringing me your partner, your
girl, and I'm doing this thingfor you Like cool, just in a
sense of like.
How could I bring in, forexample, play piercing, which to
me doesn't feel sexual, itfeels ritualistic in a way of
(27:22):
like.
When I've done it the first fewtimes with friends in play
space, you're there, you'reready to get pierced and the
person piercing you is saying,okay, breathe in, and you know.
When I pierce you, like, sayyour intention, you know, or
call in something you want, andthen, when we're taking the
(27:43):
needle out of your skin, youwill say out loud or express in
some way something you want tolet go of, release, right.
So I've done these types ofrituals in play spaces that were
for me like a spiritualexperience and not so much like
a sexual experience.
I think it's always been moreof a soulful way to connect to
(28:08):
the body, to the spirit and toother people, more than like I'm
going to get off on this typeof thing, and so, like, for
example, play piercing issomething I could do with anyone
, you know.
There are things like beatingsomebody, flogging somebody,
spanking somebody, doingsomething else to them might
feel more like I have to haveintimacy with that person.
(28:28):
But piercing I could do withalmost anyone, you know, and so
if somebody would want thatexperience as part of their
ritual, I could imagine beingreally easily able to provide it
.
It's just as intimate astattooing, you know, like it's
the same, like yes, we'redealing with your blood and your
skin, but I'm gonna betattooing you, so it's like the
(28:49):
same thing.
I don't know.
I don't know if this makessense no, it makes total sense
to me?
yeah, because I I feel like I'verun into this thing with, like,
folks who are not as familiarwith kink or for whom kink is
very sexual, where if I talkedabout kink and outside of sexual
dynamics, they'd kind of belike what do you mean?
(29:10):
Like this is how you feel aboutthat person, and I'll be like
no, I just it's like, I see, I'mlike I don't know how to talk
about it.
Well, cause.
Ayden Love (29:19):
I think it's hard Cause the like outsider
perspective on kink is like oh,you get off on causing people
pain.
That's the most like dumbeddown version of what it is and
as a tattooer you are reallyholding that space to try and
make a safe and comfortableenvironment.
So to have that crossassociation of people thinking
(29:41):
that, oh, this is like a kinkytattooer means that they're
getting off on hurting you,which is like very much not my
experience.
But that would be like my fear,in sort of outing that
connection between people ifthere's not already that
inherent understanding of howkink can be separate from sexual
(30:02):
arousal, you know.
Micah Riot (30:05):
And I feel like, in relation to this conversation,
I've heard people, or peoplehave asked me do you like
hurting people?
Like people have been like doyou I?
Basically you say this likewithout using that word, because
most people aren't using thesewords, and I'd be like, no, I
don't actually, because it's notpart of our relationship.
Like without using that word,because most people aren't using
these words, and I'd be like,no, I don't actually, because
it's not part of ourrelationship.
Like, if I knew they wereenjoying it, then I would enjoy
(30:27):
it too, because I like makingpeople happy.
But yeah do I just, in thevacuum, enjoy hurting somebody
like no, yeah, it's, it's aslippery slope, it is a slippery
slope, um, and then I feel likethat question's not very kink,
informed, you know definitelyyeah.
Ayden Love (30:47):
And then you also like then you're being asked to
sort of like disclose reallyintimate and personal parts of
yourself in a way that isunheard of in other contexts.
Like I'm, you know, if somebodyasked me if I'm a sadist, I'd
really clearly be able to belike, absolutely not, I'm a
masochist.
I I got reprimanded by thewoman that mentored me for
apologizing for hurting myclient.
(31:07):
So like it's actually theopposite for me, but like it's a
role I can play on TV.
You know of somebody's needs,but like, absolutely not.
Micah Riot (31:19):
The pain of it is not doing something nice for me
you know, but that's, that'slike level 202, you know, yeah,
and also, what pain is to youraverage lay person is something
complex and layered andintricate to somebody who is
kinky, right like for sure.
If I'm spanking my partner, Iimagine how the warmth and the
(31:45):
sting and the pleasure of itlike feels at the same time, and
then I can tune into how she'sfeeling and so like that gives
me pleasure.
Sure, because I can imaginethat it feels nice.
But like the idea of just likecausing someone pain, like for
the sake of pain, right like Ithink that's also why I like
things.
Ayden Love (32:05):
Like cutting things I cannot imagine, because
cutting to me seems like a lotmore pain than pleasure and
that's kind of besides the pointyeah, I mean it's also also
personal the way differentpeople integrate different
sensory experiences, you know,and it's also I mean like if you
(32:25):
do any kind of intentionalmagic ritual, anything like that
, there's like a good chancethat you're a really empathetic
person and combining all thesereally complex experiences while
also having your own energeticboundaries and taking care of
yourself.
It's just like actually waymore to hold than I think most
(32:47):
people are thinking of when theycome in and get a random flash
piece.
Micah Riot (32:49):
You know For sure.
Yeah, and I, like you, Ihaven't done a lot of those
kinds of tattoos.
I've only done those tattooswhen I've guest bought it.
Really, you know, I guess Iequate the flash with more
walk-in style of work.
I don't really draw flash.
Maybe it's time because that'swhat the economy is pointing to.
(33:11):
But, yeah, like, my tattoos tendto be all very ritualistic,
without really setting it upthat way, because people come
have to wait.
I mean you, you know, like thepeople who wait and you do
custom work for, like for themit's deep and important and when
they're there, like they'rereally ready for it.
So, yeah, I guess I'm just likeback to the kink conversation,
(33:32):
because I think that's sointeresting, and talking to you
specifically about it.
Um, I would like to draw inmore kink, specific and like,
like I I guess overt dynamicsthat but there aren't going to
(33:55):
be seen as sexual, right, like,just just because I'm doing this
thing for you and we're callingit this thing, that doesn't
it's not a reason for you to hiton me.
It not a reason for me to hiton you, like it's not to do with
romantic or sexual dynamics,right?
Ayden Love (34:10):
or, you like, the.
The chance of someone beingseen is like crossing a boundary
, like you know, because that'sthe other piece of it, you know
like that right, yeah, and likeas a young person, like I, you
know, was assaulted by's.
The other piece of it, you know,like right, yeah, and like as a
young person, like I, you know,was assaulted by a tattooer
while getting tattooed when Iwas 18 and like brand new to it,
and so I think that reallyinforms how I try to talk to
people about their bodies whilethey're getting tattooed and try
(34:33):
to be aware of that inherent,like power dynamic that you
really can't get rid of.
But sometimes the thing thatmakes it safe is just naming it
right.
So maybe, in saying it reallyblatantly and out loud, that
that's the thing that you'retrying to attract and that's the
type of session that you'retrying to do will bring you the
people that understand what itis and are trying to have the
(34:55):
same kind of experience thatyou're trying to have, because
it's like you were just saying,I think, yeah, definitely, the
majority of my clients arecoming to me with really heavy
shit that they're processingthrough an experience that I'm
with them for.
Um, and it was a ritual beforeI called it a ritual and before
I set up all of the extra stuffaround it.
Um, and, in some ways, thatversion of it, the less
(35:19):
manicured version of it, is moreaccessible for some people that
are not familiar with some ofthe more explicit aspects of it,
but sometimes, if you just aresaying it out loud, then people
can say yes, that's definitelywhat I want, even if I didn't
previously know that that was athing I could ask for.
Micah Riot (35:36):
Mm-hmm, and that's definitely not a thing people
think they can ask for, becausewe're also.
We don't speak about powerdynamics or intimate things.
You know very much in public orwith providers.
Ayden Love (36:00):
Unless it's like a very specifically the context of
hiring a sex worker.
Like you know, they've reallygot the skill set.
Maybe we should do like aSkillshare trade between
professions to like merge someof the brilliant skills.
Micah Riot (36:15):
That is brilliant.
Actually can think of somebodywho would probably be a good
candidate for that.
Yeah, yeah um, yeah, but forwhat it's worth.
Ayden Love (36:27):
If anybody is thinking of coming to you for
this, I can say my experiencewith my kink explicit tattoo uh,
you were the perfect person and, um, I really loved what you
brought to it in terms offacilitating that aspect of it.
Micah Riot (36:43):
I appreciate you saying that.
That's very kind for you to say.
I guess I really like authentic, honest, unexpected dynamics
and truths in a space you knowwhere it's kind of like with
tattoos.
You know like I like for thingsto not be super linear and like
(37:04):
take a wild turn.
I'm like I love that, like thisis part of being human.
So doing something unexpectedor unusual or something people
don't come to me often for isalways exciting.
Ayden Love (37:18):
Definitely.
Yeah, that's how you stay in itwith inspiration and gratitude,
right.
Micah Riot (37:24):
Mm-hmm, with inspiration and gratitude, right
?
Um, I wanted to ask you aquestion earlier when you were
talking about the ritual andlike what comes to you in the
midst of that as you're workingwith this person.
Is you so?
You have a specific style?
You have like a niche style?
Um, do you ever have people whoare in that space and then
(37:44):
asking for something that youdon't usually do?
Ayden Love (37:47):
Not in the ritual space.
I feel like I've been reallylucky to just have the clients
that are very, very open to likejust receiving what happens in
the session, and I'm trying toreally create an environment
where they still feel like theycan say, like, no, I don't like
that, Like, even if I feel likeI got this information from
(38:07):
somewhere from the ether orwhatever, I don't want them to
feel like they have to get it.
You know, Um, and it has feltlike a really collaborative
process.
Um, but it was really informedby when I so I, when I was
living in Portland this is themost stereotypical sentence I
could possibly say.
But when I was living inPortland, this is the most
stereotypical sentence I couldpossibly say.
(38:28):
But when I was living inPortland, I went to witch school
and one of the areas of magicthat felt really like I had been
doing it my whole life I justdidn't have a name for it was
making charms for people, and sowhen I started tattooing, I did
a lot of designs that were sortof charm informed, and that's
(38:49):
the way that I think of it.
So there are like bits andpieces that I can imagine if I
were making a physical charm tohand somebody, that those are
like my personal symbolism thatI might bring in, but other
people are bringing in, you know, their own components and my
job is to sort of weave thatnarrative together in a cohesive
way.
But yeah, so far nobody hascome through trying to get a
(39:15):
ritual tattoo and then beinglike but could you make it like
Garfield skin rip kind ofExactly?
Yeah, which is a real tattoo Idid, but that was um not in a
ritual context.
Micah Riot (39:29):
So, like stylistically, given that you
have such a niche style, willyou sometimes go outside of that
?
Like if somebody is like I wanta rainbow bright, like whatever
.
Ayden Love (39:41):
Sure, I mean, I think that stuff is fun as long
as I feel like technically I canexecute it.
Some stuff I I'm just like Idon't know how to do that.
I don't even know how to drawthat, but for example, I did
tattoo Garfield skin rippingthrough my friend Leanne's leg
and then behind the skin rip itwas a rainbow flag and then
there was a banner that saidthese colors don't run, don't
(40:08):
run, um.
And that's not something Iwould ever tattoo out of my
brain.
But when Leanne was like I needthis really specific niche um
idea, I was like anything forLeanne, you know right.
Micah Riot (40:16):
When, like, a friend asks you, you're like yeah,
I'll do it for you.
So then would you postsomething like that.
Ayden Love (40:21):
I did post it, yeah, because I thought it was a
fucking hilarious tattoo.
Okay, cause it's also like a,you know, a reference to like, I
think.
I think it's like bumperstickers in the South that are
like these colors don't run, andthen it's like an American flag
or like I don't know somereally bullshit thing.
And you know, we were justtrying to have a moment of like.
Not everyone in the South is abigot.
Micah Riot (40:50):
And like just turning it around on its head.
Yeah, yeah, um.
So I wonder that, though, aboutpeople who have a very new
style like, who are like this iswhat I do, this is, you know,
and the scope of this like kindof a narrow style.
I guess I do all thesedifferent things.
Um, by narrow I don't mean, youknow, not expansive, just a
specific line work and shadingand all that.
Do you do other stuff and notpost it?
(41:10):
Like, how do you keep your say?
You know, social media lookingmore linear tends to attract
more people, more followers.
Ayden Love (41:18):
Sometimes I feel almost like I've backed myself
into a corner with the styleLike there are things that I'd
like to explore more, but peoplesee a certain thing on your
page and then that's the thingthat they ask for, and while I
would love to tattoo flowersuntil the day I die, you know,
occasionally I'd like to putsome color in there, and so I
feel really grateful when peopledo ask for something that's not
(41:40):
all over my feed, cause itgives me a chance to do
something new.
But, like, at the end of the day, if I'm saying no to a request,
it's because I just don't thinkthat if I did it, I think you
would be able to tell I wasfaking it.
You know what I mean.
It's like I've had a few peopleask me to like do recreations
(42:01):
of some other thing that theysaw, and I'm like it's going to
look like a photocopy of aphotocopy of a photocopy.
This isn't.
This isn't how I work, and Ithink that's probably both um a
part of the luxury of being someself-taught tattooer that
didn't have to like strugglethrough walk-in shop years, um,
(42:22):
that I just got spoiled in doingmy own art, but the other piece
of it is like it does make youless adaptable in these times of
, you know, recession, like Ican't just go get a job doing
Sailor Jerry pinup style stuff,cause I don't know how to do it.
Micah Riot (42:39):
I mean, you'd probably learn, since you were
in the States.
Ayden Love (42:42):
I would need some help, but for sure I mean there
are also days where I'm likethere are artistic visions in my
mind that I technically don'tknow how to execute, that I
would love to just walk into ashop and pretend that I've never
tattooed in my life and try toget an apprenticeship so that I
could learn to be like a neotrad bro, cause I think that
shit's beautiful.
Micah Riot (42:59):
But like I don't people say you know online, like
if you are self-taught and youdon't feel like you have the you
know the basic skills, like youcould get an apprenticeship or
kind of like retrain or work insomeone else's shop and like
unofficially retrain right.
Like I've thought about it,cause I also feel like I'm
self-taught, like I don't thinkmy apprenticeship was um in any
(43:29):
way formal.
Ayden Love (43:29):
There was, you know, the person who was supposed to
be my teacher was not there verymuch and when they were they
were tattooing and not watchingme and like not talking to me.
So, yeah, I hear, I hear thatfrom a lot of people and it
seems so unfortunate becausemost people that I've talked to
had really unfortunateapprenticeship experiences and
still ended up kind of having toteach themselves.
And yeah, I think it's scary.
But sometimes I do think aboutjust like trying to go get an
apprenticeship to learn adifferent way of doing it, cause
(43:50):
I certainly don't think mine isthe best way, it's just the one
I've come up with, you know.
Micah Riot (43:54):
And it's work for you, so you're doing it.
I mean, that makes sense, likesame for me.
Ayden Love (43:58):
Totally.
Micah Riot (43:59):
And I have, over time, just kind of been like
okay, I'm like somebody you know, I did a traditional back piece
and it was like hard but alsoreally fun, and I think he's
really happy with it, and I waslike I would do more of this.
But because it's not on my feedyeah, people don't come for it,
but when they do like, I getexcited about it and I'll teach
(44:21):
myself to do more of it for sure.
Ayden Love (44:24):
Really, yeah, the way I sort of like sneak it in
every now and then is, if I'minterested in exploring
something that's not all over myfeed, I'll just draw something
in that style and then post itand see if anybody wants it, and
it'll give me a chance to sortof play around with new stuff.
But now I feel like theinternet doesn't show any of my
stuff to anyone, so it kind ofdoesn't matter anymore.
Micah Riot (44:46):
So, speaking of the internet and it's showing your
stuff to people which it doesn't, you're right.
How did you build yourfollowing?
I mean, for a tattooer who'snot been doing that long, do you
have a good following?
Ayden Love (44:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think I was just kind of.
I think I just lucked out inthe time and the place that I
started tattooing and I am inthe South and my primary
clientele are like queer andtrans younger people and so
there's not a ton of us doingthat kind of experience and in
(45:24):
addition to that, when I startedtattooing there was not very
many people doing fine line workat all in all of North Carolina
, and especially not like fineline botanical stuff, the way
that I tend to focus on.
So I feel like it was just kindof the luck of that moment.
And when I first started out, Ithink I was a lot more
(45:46):
boisterous and personable on theinternet.
I'm a little tired and oldernow and so I don't put as much
of my self personality forward,but the internet is a terrible
game that you can play.
And if you're like, willing tolike put on a cute outfit and
talk to the camera, people seewhat you're doing more.
But it made me feel bad in myspirit Cause I was like I don't
(46:08):
know, I could you just look atmy art?
That's actually the thing I'mtrying to show you.
I'm not trying to be like apersonality, so I definitely see
less engagement, the less ofmyself I'm trying to put on the
internet.
But also, people are fuckinginsane.
I had people like getting in myDMs being like who's your sperm
donor, and I'm like that'screepy, like I don't even know
you.
So, like the more of yourselfyou put on the internet, the
(46:30):
more of yourself you're kind oflike vulnerable with, and at the
end of the day, I was like I'mjust trying to draw tattoos for
you.
Like I'll get vulnerable inyour session once we like know
each other, but you don'tdeserve these parts of me just
because you saw them on theinternet.
So I got a little creeped outand I think, as a result, like I
(46:53):
spend less time being there onthe internet.
Micah Riot (46:58):
Yeah, and the internet's not really rewarding
anyway, like it just feels like,yeah, everyone is putting in a
lot of effort, people who aredoing well, putting in lots of
effort to make the stuff thatthey're putting out, and it's
not energy that I have.
Ayden Love (47:12):
It's also like a whole full time job, like not
only do you have to be atattooer and do the tattoos and
do the drawings for the tattoosand the emails for the tattoos,
but now you also have to be avideographer and an editor and,
you know, have this whole otherjob.
Micah Riot (47:30):
So what happens if tattoo industry dies?
What are you going to do?
Ayden Love (47:33):
Well, like I said, as a thought experiment.
Micah Riot (47:39):
What's that?
As a thought experiment, morethan like reality, because I
don't think it's going to happen, but like sure, let's dream,
let's dream about it.
Ayden Love (47:50):
Well, I am still a massage therapist, and so two
days a week I do pediatric bodywork.
Um, and as much as that's likea fallback in case the tattoo
industry disappears for me, um,it's also just that, as a
neurodivergent person, I neednovelty to be able to stay
interested and to stay good atwhat I'm doing, and so being
(48:12):
able to sort of bounce back andforth between two really
different styles of using mybrain helps me stay sharper in
both of them, so I can still dopediatric body work.
Micah Riot (48:23):
I guess Pediatric you mean for kids yeah, I do
mostly.
Ayden Love (48:27):
I would say like three months and under is my
main um population that I workwith, like babies, babies,
newborns, wild, that's wild,yeah, but it's really fun and
they're so receptive and likeopen.
Micah Riot (48:45):
I imagine, so I'm afraid of babies, so I could
never do it, but like you'reafraid of like dropping them or
something, Um, I think the ideaof dealing with their bodies is
terrifying because they are sothere with their bodies is
(49:07):
terrifying because they are sothey can't communicate like in a
adult way, like that'scomfortable, that's
uncomfortable, that hurts, likeI know they'll cry and they'll
probably move and stuff, like Iknow they communicate.
But it feels so alien to me theidea of, like you, know like
learning the language yeah, likeas a as a person who parented a
kid for a time.
(49:28):
my, my stepson, was four when Imet him, and so it's what he had
some language so much languageand like so much expression,
attitude and all that so like afour.
You know, when he first met mehe was like I do not care to
know you at all, and it took usa while to get to a place where
he like trusted me enough tolike interact with, not care to
know you at all, and it took usa while to get to a place where
he like trusted me enough tolike interact with me and cry
(49:50):
with me and like play with meand all the stuff.
Um, it was beautiful and hard.
But four like three.
Ayden Love (49:56):
Four feels like the age I can start to like do deal
with kids at like younger is soscary if you threw yourself into
it, I bet you'd be better at itthan you're giving yourself
credit for, because you dealwith people's nonverbal
communication all day, every day, like you're constantly reading
somebody's cues about whetherthey need a water break or if
they're about to tap out, orlike you're doing the same thing
(50:17):
.
Babies are not any different.
They're just doing it withoutwords, but they still have that
whole system of language intheir bodies, and that's what
I'm reading when I'm workingwith them.
Micah Riot (50:28):
That makes complete sense and I definitely you know
it's like we're not all good atthe same things and I love the
fact that this is like a passionfor you and also your parent,
and you're going to be a parentagain and like this is your
thing.
I can see how amazing you areas like a nurturing figure in
like a person's life, you know,and you're like, I still don't
(50:48):
want to hang out with babies.
I mean, it's like if it's likemy dear friend's baby, you know,
it's like when I imagine thefolks that are around me now,
especially the younger folksthat I feel nurturing towards
that, I feel like I'm theirqueer uncle or their like
grandpa.
In case of Sailor, if, like,one of them got pregnant, had a
baby, I would be, I wouldtotally be there for them.
(51:08):
You know, the baby had babiesto the baby.
I would feed it, I would stayup night with it, whatever, like
I would do the things as like agood grandparent would.
Yeah, but I definitely am likewas happy to skip, like the
parent part of like having thelittle baby of mine, like
starting at four and on and thennow having people in their 20s.
(51:31):
I'd be like my children.
This is, you know, I like I, Ifeel I feel good about this.
He's got your niche yeah, my,exactly, I have a niche of
parenting yeah.
Ayden Love (51:44):
so my, I guess my fallback is that particular
niche of mine.
But lately, because of theneurodivergence, I have to like,
uh, quit my career and get anew one every six years.
And lately I've been like whatif I just quit all of it and go
become a nail tech?
Okay, and like, you get to doall of the art, but none of it
is permanent and you can justlike.
(52:04):
And like you get to do all ofthe art, but none of it is
permanent and you can just like,do it over again if they don't
like it.
Micah Riot (52:08):
It's just that I feel like you'd have to work so
much to make money to live on.
Ayden Love (52:15):
I don't know Like a full set's, like 150 bucks.
Micah Riot (52:20):
Hmm, you spend, like what, an hour on it.
Yeah, maybe an hour.
See, I don't know anythingabout it because I don't do
nails.
I don't get nails.
Have you seen the show claws?
I love the show claws, yeahokay it's very inspiring, like
watching a show.
I'm like I could be like agangster nail tag.
Ayden Love (52:38):
Okay, you could yeah , you could launder a bunch of
money.
Micah Riot (52:41):
While you like, paint really cool designs on
nails right, there was like aRussian mafia person yeah, it's
part of it and like the butch,the one that's butch I was like,
wow, this is so great.
Ayden Love (52:51):
Wow, I really.
Now I want to revisit that show.
Micah Riot (52:55):
I like love the show for a while and then I was like
this is getting tedious, Likethere's too many different
mafias for the main character,Like she's so stressed out.
I just like can't watch her bethat stressed out anymore.
Ayden Love (53:07):
You just want something good to happen to her.
Finally.
Micah Riot (53:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and like it just keeps getting
shit and shit and shit and I'mjust like she's the best and
she's really suffering here andI can't watch this anymore.
Ayden Love (53:18):
Yeah, that's real.
Yeah, I go back and forth withGrey's Anatomy in that same way,
like I can watch it for like amonth and then I'm like this is
too much misfortune.
Micah Riot (53:30):
I need to take a break.
Yeah, watching shows where it'sjust like bad shit keeps
happening is yeah, bad shitkeeps happening out there in the
world.
Ayden Love (53:38):
There's already enough bad shit.
I don't need to watchentertainment about bad shit.
Micah Riot (53:44):
Yeah, for real.
Do you have a showrecommendation for me and the
listeners?
What's your like favorite thing?
That's comfort or justsomething you really liked in
the last couple of years.
Ayden Love (53:57):
In true neurodivergent fashion.
I just keep rewatching theX-Files every time I need to
feel comfortable.
That's my like safe zone.
It's just like me and DanaScully forever.
Micah Riot (54:08):
Okay, that's very, very retro classic of you.
Ayden Love (54:12):
Yeah, it's never going to be a new one, because I
was raised Pentecostal so Iwasn't allowed to have TV when I
was young, so everything is newto me.
So I didn't get the X fileslike in the nineties when
everyone else did.
I got it a couple of years ago.
Micah Riot (54:27):
Got it, but it like you're talking about, like the
retro 90s style of it.
Right, there's no remake, it'sjust that old.
Ayden Love (54:33):
Yeah, it's just the original and I just watched it
for the first time, like someyears back, and now I just keep
rewatching it.
Micah Riot (54:41):
That's great.
I never watched it because Ididn't come here to this country
until I was 12 and I waswatching Saved by the Bell.
Ayden Love (54:51):
There you go, or Buffy.
I feel like Buffy is my otherone.
Last night I saw this newhorror movie with a friend of
mine and I left it thinkingabout how many references to
feminism were interlaid intosome of the visuals.
And then I was like this couldbe a whole dissertation.
And then I thought about whatit would be on my drive home.
Micah Riot (55:09):
that would be a dissertation would be yeah, yeah
, what was the movie?
It was the new omen movie.
Okay, yeah, did you watchspeaking of horror?
Did you watch love liesbleeding?
Ayden Love (55:20):
that was the one with which one was that.
That was the one with k, whichone was that.
Micah Riot (55:24):
That was the one with Kristen Stewart, yeah.
Ayden Love (55:27):
Yes, I did.
Okay, Did you?
I absolutely loved it.
Micah Riot (55:31):
I was sure you did.
Yeah, something up your alley.
Um, I had no idea what I waswalking into.
I completely didn't know.
It would be like that.
Ayden Love (55:40):
You saw it too.
Micah Riot (55:41):
I saw it early on, when I first came out, just
being like oh, it's like aworking class lesbian love story
.
Ayden Love (55:48):
Boy, were you wrong?
Huh, yes, I was.
Were you unhappy or were youpleased?
Micah Riot (55:57):
I was freaked out, honestly.
I think even more so because mypartner sitting next to me kept
being like why did you bring mehere?
Like why are we here?
Like I would not have come if Iknew, and I was like I didn't
know either.
And then I got really defensivebecause I didn't know either
and I felt like responsible forlike how she felt.
Ayden Love (56:16):
So that must've felt awful.
I also didn't know what themovie was about when I went into
it.
Somebody described it to me aslesbian fight club and I was
like, obviously I'm in, butthat's not what that movie is at
all.
Micah Riot (56:29):
No.
Ayden Love (56:29):
Yeah, I feel like we all needed more information
going in Um, but I I was reallypleased with my outcome and I'm
sorry you weren't.
Micah Riot (56:39):
Well, most people who I've talked about it loved
it the way you did and, you know, wanted to see it again.
I did and, you know, wanted tosee it again.
I think you know the firstmurder scene, what I was fine
with, even though it was graphicand intense, like I don't mind
cool special effects wherethere's like pieces of skull
missing, yeah, like that I wasfine with.
And then it's like it gotfurther, yeah, progressively
(57:02):
more gruesome and bloody andintense.
That's where I was like do wenot get a break?
Like there's not going to belike just something else, like
nice happening no, they werereally not giving you anything
nice in that one no, theyweren't.
But like the end, when they'reskipping through the fields as
like unicorns and there's likerainbows, I was like, okay, give
(57:25):
us some camp, I'll take somecamp, yeah I I really
appreciated some of the breaksfor surrealist weirdness that
happened in it.
Ayden Love (57:34):
I thought it was really visually beautiful.
Also, if I'm like not enjoyinga movie, sometimes I'll just
sort of zone in on like thecolor palette or the camera
angles or whatever, and that'llusually get me through to the
end at least.
But yeah, it was a gruesomemovie and I did not know that
that was about to happen.
Micah Riot (57:53):
If you do watch lesbian, if you do want lesbian
fight club, there's a movie onI'll remember what it's called
now and I'll talk to you aboutit but there's like a teenage
movie online that's literallylesbian fight club.
It's these two teenage girls inhigh school decide that they
will start having fight club asa way to get closer to their
(58:15):
crushes, their female crushes.
It's called bottoms bottomsokay yeah, and it's quite
literally that teenage lesbianfight club that is so cute.
There's lots of fighting andpeople hitting each other and
it's like pretty done in like avery juicy way where there's
lots of sound effects and wow,bloody noses and stuff well,
(58:36):
maybe I'll take a break from the.
X-files tonight.
I think you would enjoy it.
I think you actually wouldreally enjoy it, yeah, so last
question I ask my guests is whatis something small that's been
making you happy lately?
Ayden Love (58:52):
Um, so it's very spring in North Carolina right
now and my yard is full of wildstrawberries Like I've never
seen so many in my whole life,and this morning my son
discovered them, and so we spenta good chunk of this morning
just gathering wild strawberriesand eating them, and it was
(59:19):
it's the most joy I've felt inweeks, I think.
Definitely like the springcoming, my child playing in the
yard, all that is feeling likebig joy.
Micah Riot (59:30):
Wild strawberry flavor is one of my most
favorite tastes in the world.
Ayden Love (59:35):
Really yeah, yeah.
Micah Riot (59:37):
It's such a specific thing.
It doesn't to me, doesn't tastelike strawberry, strawberry,
but it's.
There's something very specialabout it.
Ayden Love (59:45):
It's almost kind of ephemeral you know, yeah, it's
not like a hit you in the face.
Flavor.
Micah Riot (59:52):
No, but it's a very specific flavor.
Ayden Love (59:54):
Totally.
Yeah, well, you should comeover to my yard, cause they are
going off right now.
Micah Riot (59:58):
Okay, I'm on my way, thank you, thanks for coming on
the podcast.
It was so kind of you to bothto be down and also to be like
like last minute.
I'm like how about tomorrow?
You're like yeah, okay, thankyou.
Hello, my darlings, this is Micah Riot with another
episode of Ink Medicine Podcast.
It is May 2nd or May 3rd or May4th, whenever you decide to
listen to this episode, andtoday I am interviewing a new
friend of mine named Aiden Love.
Aiden is a tattoo artist, asouthern femme, a Leo, a witch,
(00:26):
a mom and the baby girl of oneof my friends.
In fact, the way I met her wasthrough this friend of mine, who
brought her to me to tattoo aset of magical, ritualistic,
kinky tattoos for her baby girland for my friend Daddy.
If you know me, you know thatthis made me very happy because
(00:49):
I love ritual, I loveauthenticity, I love
relationships and I love play.
So let's get into it.
Introduce yourself with, likeyour pronouns and your, some of
(01:26):
your identities and yourfavorite thing to eat for
breakfast oh, wow, um, I'm aidenI use she her pronouns um.
Ayden Love (01:38):
Some of my relevant these include being a queer
femme, genderqueer, southerner,a parent, a white person and a
witch, and I really struggled toeat breakfast because most
(02:03):
breakfast foods I associate withbeing eggs, which I hate, or
sweet things.
So anything that is a savoryfood that's not egg based is my
favorite breakfast food, ormaybe my breakfast.
Micah Riot (02:14):
My favorite favorite breakfast food is just lunch
that you know what you can eatlike lunch, for breakfast, like
there's no rule.
So you've you.
Have you always hated eggs?
Yeah, yeah, okay.
Yeah, I mean they're kind ofweird.
I get it like I like themmyself, but they're like a weird
concept yeah, I think it's morejust like they're really
(02:38):
sulfury and weird.
Ayden Love (02:42):
Yeah, but when I was pregnant, the first time I it
was the only thing I craved,which was really weird because I
had this like cognitivedissonance where I was eating
them and knowing that Itheoretically hated them I
cannot imagine what that wouldbe like it's like getting your
body hijacked by some otherliving being.
Micah Riot (03:01):
That is that is that is wild.
So then, like the second, youlike the kid came out, you were
like, okay, I hate eggs again.
Ayden Love (03:09):
It only lasted for the first trimester, okay, yeah.
Micah Riot (03:14):
Amazing.
Yeah, so you're a tattoo artist.
Yes, how long have you beentattooing?
Ayden Love (03:21):
I think I've been tattooing six going on seven
years.
Micah Riot (03:27):
And how did you come to?
Ayden Love (03:29):
it.
So an ex-partner of mine justgave me a tattoo machine for
Christmas one year and I came upin the era of tattooing where
that was very frowned upon, so Ihad a hard time receiving the
gift because that's not howyou're supposed to do it.
(03:49):
Um, but that particular partnerwas, um, I'll say, from a
different class bracket than Iwas and had a lot more
entitlement to whatever the fuckthey wanted.
So they were like you can doanything and I was like that's
against the rules and they kindof like bleed me into starting
(04:09):
to tattoo our friends.
Um, and that's how it started.
Micah Riot (04:15):
And then what like?
Did you end up in a shop?
Did you end up getting likeformal training?
How, how did you continue?
Ayden Love (04:24):
you continue.
So most of it was justself-taught, trial and error
with lovers and friends.
And then I went through aparticularly like rough year
where a lot of traumatic thingshappened and the career that I
was previously in becamesomewhat triggering to me while
(04:45):
I was navigating some healthissues and I needed a job really
quick.
So it kind of just became mylike side hustle that turned
into my full-time job over thecourse of about a year.
I never had any officialtraining from anyone but was um
(05:07):
a woman in the town where I livewho I would like go over to her
house and she would talk methrough some technical aspects.
We did that a few times um, butI have a background in health
care so I had a grasp on all ofthe sort of safety um issues
that one would be concerned with.
(05:27):
All the bloodborne pathogenstuff was not unfamiliar to me
and I've been an artist my wholelife, so it was really learning
sort of the technical side ofthings.
But most of my learning hascome from trial and error and
being in community with otherself-taught tattooers and
occasionally other officialapprentice tattooers that are
willing to share their widerbreadth of knowledge.
Micah Riot (05:51):
Yeah, this is interesting.
The person who would allow youto come to their house and talk
you through stuff is kind of amentor of yours.
Did you meet them throughtattooing or did you know them
before?
Ayden Love (06:02):
Yeah, I had a friend of mine who was just really,
really amped for me to starttattooing because she's always
been really supportive of my artin general, and she was like oh
you have to meet Stephanie.
I love her, she's tattooed me awhole bunch and Stephanie used
to own a shop in Durham, likesome years prior, and so she
introduced us.
Micah Riot (06:24):
Wonderful.
Are you still friends with thatperson?
Ayden Love (06:27):
Yeah, yeah.
I mean I think COVID has madeall of our relationships a lot
more distant than they once were, so I haven't seen her in a
while, but we see each other onthe internet from time to time.
Micah Riot (06:41):
So where do you work now?
It's a private studio, or Ihave a private studio in.
Ayden Love (06:44):
Durham yeah, I did work in a shop for about two
years, but it closed last year.
Micah Riot (06:51):
And you're by yourself now.
Ayden Love (06:54):
Yeah, which I honestly much prefer because I
am an introvert.
Micah Riot (07:00):
Yeah, I hear that, but you know it's like, over
time I feel like it got to me.
You know I worked by myself formost of my like 15 years of
tattooing and there comes a timewhen you're like okay, I feel
like I'm living in a bubble andthen, there's like no input and
output, like it's just allinternet and like me.
Ayden Love (07:21):
Yeah, and the internet is a rough place to get
all of your input from internetand, like me, yeah and the
internet is a rough place to getall of your input from.
Micah Riot (07:26):
Yeah, I was like scrolling today and I'm in like
a kind of a PMDD cycle where I'mjust like not at my like
peppiest and I was likescrolling today, I was like this
was designed to make me feelbad, like I literally work
better than me yep every time, Ijust like don't even let myself
scroll anymore because I'm likeI'll quit if I keep scrolling.
Yeah, there's definitely dayswhere I'm like I feel like that,
(07:47):
Like I need to stop, likeunfollow everybody who is like
way better than me and I'llnever be at their level, you
know.
Ayden Love (07:54):
I?
I appreciate that it's not justme out there Sad scrolling.
Micah Riot (08:00):
I assume it's all of us, which is why we're all kind
of like I feel like depressedas a community of humans.
Ayden Love (08:06):
Yeah, not just tattooers, but, like you know,
everyone.
Micah Riot (08:11):
Yeah, because I mean , if you're a creative, you're
following other creatives andyou're like oh, they're doing
amazing, beautiful shit.
And then if you're somebody wholike doesn't think they're
creative, then you're like I'mnot creative.
Ayden Love (08:25):
And look at all these creative people Like it
doesn't think they're creative.
Then you're like I'm notcreative.
And look at all these creativepeople like it's the same, yeah,
or even just like a persontrying to live your life, and
then you're like this person hasenough money to go on vacation,
or this person has enough timeand patience to make crafts with
their kids, or whatever thething that you're doing.
Micah Riot (08:38):
There's just only comparison yeah, it's basically
what it's designed for, right.
It's like part of capitalism tolike make us hustle harder and
like do more and spend money onbetter equipment or whatever.
Ayden Love (08:51):
Yeah, and it's like I get stuck in a trap where, if
I only see the internet for toolong, I forget that other
tattooers can be nice, um, and Ijust assume that they'll all be
scary and mean um, which is whyI really love doing guest spots
, because, while it's terrifyingbefore you get there, usually
you meet people who are reallysweet once you're there.
Have you done a lot of guestspotting?
(09:13):
Yeah, I try to do one every fewmonths, even if it's somewhere
like pretty close by.
Micah Riot (09:20):
Okay, that's, that's interesting.
So, besides, like community,what else do you get out of it?
Ayden Love (09:27):
I love traveling and seeing new places.
Like I just love seeing what anew town is about that I haven't
gotten a chance to explorebefore.
But I honestly usually try togo to cities where I have people
that I already love and don'tget to see very often.
So it's kind of an excuse tovisit people that I care about.
Like I tried a guest spot inSeattle or Tacoma or Portland
(09:51):
somewhere in the Northwest acouple times a year so that I
can see the people that I knewwhen I lived there, just to kind
of offset the insane resourcesneeded to travel.
Micah Riot (10:03):
I kind of love that strategy and I haven't done a
lot of guest guesting.
I've really only done it twiceLike right, I've been tattooing
for a long time.
I've felt like, yeah, peopleare scary.
But when I've guessed that atwalk-in shops you end up doing a
lot of um, infinity symbols, oh, wow, yeah.
I believe that so so I don'tknow, like maybe it's changed.
(10:27):
You know, and I'm um, I'm gonnago do a guest spot in june and
I'm excited and also like alittle bit terrified where are
you going?
I'm going to chicago fun.
I'm going to butterfat studiosum.
Esther garcia, who owns it, islike somebody I've followed for,
like my whole life as atattooer.
Ayden Love (10:45):
And that tattooer is incredible.
Micah Riot (10:47):
Yeah, yeah, like her work, her, her philosophy
around it, her likethoughtfulness, her work in like
kind of equity and tattooing,like she, you know, does color
testing and stuff on likemelanin skin.
Yeah, she's really great and Iam excited and also like
terrified.
Ayden Love (11:05):
Yeah, I bet you'll have a great time I am sure I
will Um yeah, I get, I did aguest spot in Chicago.
It was really fun.
So what did you guess there?
Um, I'm totally blanking on thename of the studio right now.
It'll come to me in a minute.
Micah Riot (11:23):
Okay, so for people who want to guest right Like,
this is one of the perks oftattooing that you can travel
and like work anywhere.
Can you give your like besttips?
Well, sitting out there, whomight be like beginner
tattooists?
Or just not very experiencedguests, guest spotters.
Ayden Love (11:41):
Yeah, I mean I really started out guesting as a
really really new tattooer andprobably gained a lot of my
initial knowledge through goingto shops with artists that were
open to somebody with lessexperience.
Carrie Burke that used to ownHeart of Gold in Hendersonville
gave me my first guest spot andI was like a very fresh first
(12:03):
year tattooer at that point orlike first year of doing it
professionally, and I was alwaysreally surprised at sort of the
openness and generosity of allof the studios that I've guested
at.
But I've really prioritizedstudios and shops that I knew
were other queer people orgender nonconforming people,
people of color, like I neverI've never guest it at some
(12:24):
random trad bro shop.
I don't know what thatexperience would be like.
I'm not super interested inhaving it.
So for me it's just been aboutfinding a shop that you feel
like is in alignment with whatmakes you feel comfortable just
as a person, not even as anartist.
Micah Riot (12:42):
But that might not be everybody's priority, but for
me that's like been the easiestway to combat feeling really
scared of how mean people can be.
Yeah, so what's your approach?
Like what do you do?
You're like, okay, I found theshop it's.
(13:03):
Do you prefer walk-in shops or?
Ayden Love (13:06):
I've never done a walk-in tattoo.
Micah Riot (13:09):
Okay.
Ayden Love (13:10):
Yeah, I've only.
Never done a single walk-intattoo.
Okay, never done a singlewalk-in tattoo Two years in the
shop that we own.
That was a street shop and Ijust did customs and
occasionally we would do largerflash days.
But my way of getting guestspots has just been emailing the
shop and almost always you hearback and I've never been told
(13:32):
no.
I've had some shops that neverresponded, but nobody's ever
been mean to me or been likeyour tattoos suck, you can't
work here.
Which is always.
My worst fear is somebody isgoing to be like you're.
You know, whatever my impostersyndrome will come in and we'll
be like you're not good enough.
Um, but people are alwaysreally sweet and then, um, yeah,
just emailing and being beingready to hear no, but usually
(13:55):
you hear yes and most of themhave a pretty set like guest
policy and you know I usuallysay something about like who I
am.
Like a brief description oflike here's where I'm coming
from.
Here's the type of tattooing Ido.
Um, here are the dates I'minterested in.
Would love to work at your shopand then they'll send back.
(14:16):
Like here's the supplies we doand don't have.
Um, here's how we handlebooking.
Like you're responsible forthis.
You're not responsible for that.
And then what the shop payoutuh structure is like?
Micah Riot (14:30):
and then, as far as booking your clients, do you
then advertise in that town like, do you do like some kind of
paid ad or do you like, forexample, you know, butterfat,
like estra said she'll, she'llpost for me on their like shop
page, which I'm hoping will getsome of the clients that I will
need to fill my time but I'malso like, kind of, how do I
(14:51):
approach that piece of it?
You know, like getting bookedup for the time they're in like
a private studio, because, yeah,there's no welcomes yeah,
definitely.
Ayden Love (14:59):
Um, for me it has mostly just been the internet
and knowing people in towns thatare willing to sort of cross
post for you.
Like the shop posting isusually the most helpful thing
that I've seen if they'rewilling to post like a little
bit before your visit and thenduring your visit if you still
have openings.
And I try to make one or twoflash sheets available for each
(15:23):
guest spot so there's like new,fresh designs to pick from
because people love to see newstuff.
And then you know queers knoweveryone by two degrees of
separation.
So I'm just like who do I knowin Chicago and I'll ask them to
repost something about my visitand usually you can find one or
two of your friends in onedirection where they'll tell
(15:47):
their friends and eventually itbooks it out.
But I do think it's been harderin the last year or so to
really fill out those bookings.
It does feel like it has sloweddown some post the mid COVID
boom of tattooing.
Micah Riot (16:07):
Yeah.
So I'm curious how you'refeeling about that.
Like I keep seeing I definitely, you know, have a there's a
slower flow, like I have a lotless emails coming in, but books
are still full for a little bitahead.
There's been a bunch ofcancellations, whatever seems
kind of normal.
But also like I can feel thatthere's less you know, interest
(16:30):
just the part of like people outthere.
And then I keep seeingtattooers posts like this is the
slowest season ever.
We've just all been sittingaround like no one's books are
full and I'll go and like lookat their instagram and they'll
have like 20 000 followers andand be like I'm just sitting
around and I'm like, okay, well,um, I hope not to get to that
point.
Um, so how are you feeling withwhat is considered, I think,
(16:54):
like the worst recession tattoobusiness?
Ayden Love (16:56):
Yeah, I feel I feel similarly to how you're feeling,
like I think I got reallyspoiled as a tattooer who was
only a couple of years in whenCOVID hit and it was just
consistently packed and peoplewere really clamoring to get in
with every flash post you makeor whatever, or books open or
(17:16):
however you do it.
But now it does stay consistentfor me, like there's never a
day that I'm like I didn't havesomebody.
Today there might be acancellation last minute or
something like that, but it'smore like booking out two months
instead of six or eight monthsor whatever the case may be.
But then my scarcity mindsetcomes in and it's like you
imagined this career and it isfinally disappearing, this thing
(17:38):
that you dreamed of.
But it's helpful when I seeother artists sort of going
through the same thing, that Ithink we're all just kind of
exhausted, you know, spirituallyand in a resource way and in
all of the ways possible, justas humans right now, cause, like
I think, during COVID,everybody went into this mindset
(18:01):
of like, oh, my God, mymortality, like we could all die
and we're all going to end updirt.
So I might as well get thattattoo that I've been dreaming
of, but I've been too scared toget and I would tattoo a lot of
like first time sub suburban,like housewives that were like I
don't know.
I just am like in my housethinking about it and like why
not?
Um, I think now people are justfucking broke because groceries
(18:24):
are a million dollars andnobody has health care and it
just feels harder and harder tolike eke out joy, even in these
really personal, meaningfulrituals that some of us hold
dear, you know.
Micah Riot (18:39):
Yeah.
So when, when that mindsetcomes into play for you, what do
you do Like?
Where do you go with that?
Ayden Love (18:48):
That's a really good question.
So I think my scarcity braintries to tell me to just make
the most appealing like masssort of I don't know like the
thing that will be the mostinteresting to the most people
and put that out there.
(19:08):
But I've been trying to like Idon't know, everybody loves a
flower Like make it reallyaccessible art, make it really
like anybody could look at thisand be like sure I can slap that
sticker on, but it has led meto feeling less inspired by the
work as a whole.
So what I've been trying to dolately is go weirder, and one of
(19:32):
the things that that has led tois that I'm trying to
restructure a few days a monthof my work days to be dedicated
to more ritual style tattooing,where it's more about having an
entire day set aside for oneclient that has a specific
ritual intention that they wantto work with, because I do think
that tattoos most often can befor many people a sort of blood
(19:55):
magic and really respecting themas that, and so those sessions
for me are more about likepeople don't come with a
specific image in mind, theycome with an intention, and we
do a tarot card reading and webuild an altar and we sort of
set those intentions and I drawfrom a more like ritual the
information that we're receivingcollectively in the moment,
(20:16):
rather than I want it to be abutterfly, and that has felt
more fulfilling to me thantrying to just like mass market
myself in a way that feels kindof soul crushing and
(20:40):
capitalistic.
Micah Riot (20:42):
Do you charge differently for those days?
Ayden Love (20:46):
and capitalistic.
Do you charge differently forthose days?
Yeah, I have a set rate becauseI want it to be more about,
like you know the experience,being more honest to what you're
coming for, rather than likeyou sat for so many hours.
So it's like if the tattoo thatyou need is three inches or if
it's a chess piece, I don't wantyou to have to feel like you're
is three inches or if it's achest piece, I don't want you to
have to feel like you'resacrificing what you really need
(21:06):
for a budget.
So it's just sort of like ahere's a day rate and if you're
interested in this, like here'swhat we're doing.
And I have been a massagetherapist for 12 or 13 years now
, and so I offer body work as asort of wrap-up component to it,
doing some craniosacral therapyat the end of the session to
(21:28):
kind of like seal it.
Micah Riot (21:30):
Okay, you still do it afterwards, because
craniosacral is not very likebody heavy, right?
Ayden Love (21:36):
no, no you mean like often you're just holding
somebody's head or their feet orlike maybe their hands.
Micah Riot (21:43):
That's a beautiful component of tattooing.
I love that.
I love the like, thecomprehensive, like we're doing
this like soul, spiritual workand then we're finishing with
the physical mortal shell andloving it and ending it that way
.
That's beautiful.
Ayden Love (22:00):
Yeah, it feels nice Tie a little bow on it.
It also like I don't know.
I've lived so many differentlives that sometimes it feels
kind of compartmentalized andfor me it feels really good to
have several elements of whathas been important to me over
time be present in one place.
Micah Riot (22:18):
So what other details are part of this ritual?
So you have a tarot piece, youhave the bodywork piece, the
tattooing piece, the drawingpiece.
Do you do special food?
What other things?
Do you include.
Ayden Love (22:30):
I think the altar building is a big part of it for
most people and I do agrounding exercise with people,
very light trance work, and thenI've studied very minimally in
herbalism and then I've studiedvery minimally in herbalism
(23:01):
before in the before times andso I try to pair everything with
supportive herbal tea if peopleare wants to call in their
ancestors or whatever the casemay be.
So I really want to meet peoplewhere they're at with their
particular needs for the session.
So some of it I leave open doyou?
Micah Riot (23:19):
okay?
This will be a weird question,but I want to ask it.
Um so kink, okay, I know that,do you?
Is that okay to talk about?
Ayden Love (23:33):
yeah, totally okay.
Micah Riot (23:35):
So kink is magic too , right, it's also blood magic
and body magic and skin magic,like it's part of it.
And also, clearly, we have veryspecific boundaries with our
clients, like it's not arelationship.
So.
But kink to me isn'tnecessarily sexual.
It can be, but it isn't always.
Is there ever a time or waysthat you include kinky energy or
(24:02):
power dynamics or kink rituals,like I think about piercing my
clients, like not piercings andpiercings, right, but like play
piercing?
I think about that like as partof a ritual such as what you're
describing, definitely likedreamed into something like that
(24:22):
, as like part of a tattooritual, like.
What are your thoughts on this?
Ayden Love (24:26):
I think that's so fascinating and this is like
it's so funny to find aspects ofsomething that's already taboo
and then find a such a niche,specific corner of that taboo
thing that it's taboo inside ofthe taboo thing.
And I think combining theelements of kink and tattooing
is as niche as I could imagine,that taboo getting you know,
(24:48):
because so much of it and Ithink maybe this is also
specific to the tattoo culturethat I came up in which is very
queer, it's very consentoriented, it's very aware of
power dynamics.
So if you add that inconjunction with intentional
manipulation of power dynamicsfor kink purposes, like where do
(25:08):
you go with it Right?
So I think it's a fascinatingkind of unexplored territory,
which was a really fun part ofwhen, when I got tattooed by you
, when we came in and got thosematching tattoos cause I was
like, oh, this is the first timethe ritual that I'm going
through is explicit, with theperson that is participating and
(25:29):
making it happen for me, andbeing able to like name that
that was kinky out loud insteadof it having like a private
meaning for me or whatever, wasreally powerful.
So I mean, it definitely seemslike there are ways to go
through that with an intentionand consent that are aware of,
but not exploiting a powerdynamic, but it seems really
unexplored, like what are theways that you've imagined that
(25:52):
looking like in an officialcontext?
Micah Riot (25:55):
I mean in the sense of like tattooing you and your
partner who I will not name, butknowing you have a kinky
relationship and knowing thatperson from um not really a kink
space, but in kink space aswell um, and it was like really
fun for me.
You know, I was like, oh, myfriend's coming in with like
(26:16):
their girl and they're gonna dothis thing and I'll be a part of
it.
Like it's really fun.
It's just like fun and playfuland exciting to me and like um
had like a like, you know notnot like it's not a turn on, but
it's like a turn on in like asoulful way.
You know, it's like thesepeople have this dynamic.
They're both really happy aboutit and I get to participate in
(26:38):
it and it's intimate and so thatpiece is so fun for me.
I've done that before, maybe acouple of times you know, not
very many times and I also getthat, like most people who are
in kink relationships in likepower.
Dynamic relationships are notgoing to just like some tattoo
artists they don't know probablyfor those kinds of tattoos, or
(27:00):
they're doing it and they're notsaying it out loud, like you
said.
You know it's not explicit, butI guess, besides that, that
feels very straightforward to me.
You're my friend, you'rebringing me your partner, your
girl, and I'm doing this thingfor you Like cool, just in a
sense of like.
How could I bring in, forexample, play piercing, which to
me doesn't feel sexual, itfeels ritualistic in a way of
(27:22):
like.
When I've done it the first fewtimes with friends in play
space, you're there, you'reready to get pierced and the
person piercing you is saying,okay, breathe in, and you know.
When I pierce you, like, sayyour intention, you know, or
call in something you want, andthen, when we're taking the
(27:43):
needle out of your skin, youwill say out loud or express in
some way something you want tolet go of, release, right.
So I've done these types ofrituals in play spaces that were
for me like a spiritualexperience and not so much like
a sexual experience.
I think it's always been moreof a soulful way to connect to
(28:08):
the body, to the spirit and toother people, more than like I'm
going to get off on this typeof thing, and so, like, for
example, play piercing issomething I could do with anyone
, you know.
There are things like beatingsomebody, flogging somebody,
spanking somebody, doingsomething else to them might
feel more like I have to haveintimacy with that person.
(28:28):
But piercing I could do withalmost anyone, you know, and so
if somebody would want thatexperience as part of their
ritual, I could imagine beingreally easily able to provide it
.
It's just as intimate astattooing, you know, like it's
the same, like yes, we'redealing with your blood and your
skin, but I'm gonna betattooing you, so it's like the
(28:49):
same thing.
I don't know.
I don't know if this makessense no, it makes total sense
to me?
yeah, because I I feel like I'verun into this thing with, like,
folks who are not as familiarwith kink or for whom kink is
very sexual, where if I talkedabout kink and outside of sexual
dynamics, they'd kind of belike what do you mean?
(29:10):
Like this is how you feel aboutthat person, and I'll be like
no, I just it's like, I see, I'mlike I don't know how to talk
about it.
Well, cause.
Ayden Love (29:19):
I think it's hard Cause the like outsider
perspective on kink is like oh,you get off on causing people
pain.
That's the most like dumbeddown version of what it is and
as a tattooer you are reallyholding that space to try and
make a safe and comfortableenvironment.
So to have that crossassociation of people thinking
(29:41):
that, oh, this is like a kinkytattooer means that they're
getting off on hurting you,which is like very much not my
experience.
But that would be like my fear,in sort of outing that
connection between people ifthere's not already that
inherent understanding of howkink can be separate from sexual
(30:02):
arousal, you know.
Micah Riot (30:05):
And I feel like, in relation to this conversation,
I've heard people, or peoplehave asked me do you like
hurting people?
Like people have been like doyou I?
Basically you say this likewithout using that word, because
most people aren't using thesewords, and I'd be like, no, I
don't actually, because it's notpart of our relationship.
Like without using that word,because most people aren't using
these words, and I'd be like,no, I don't actually, because
it's not part of ourrelationship.
Like, if I knew they wereenjoying it, then I would enjoy
(30:27):
it too, because I like makingpeople happy.
But yeah do I just, in thevacuum, enjoy hurting somebody
like no, yeah, it's, it's aslippery slope, it is a slippery
slope, um, and then I feel likethat question's not very kink,
informed, you know definitelyyeah.
Ayden Love (30:47):
And then you also like then you're being asked to
sort of like disclose reallyintimate and personal parts of
yourself in a way that isunheard of in other contexts.
Like I'm, you know, if somebodyasked me if I'm a sadist, I'd
really clearly be able to belike, absolutely not, I'm a
masochist.
I I got reprimanded by thewoman that mentored me for
apologizing for hurting myclient.
(31:07):
So like it's actually theopposite for me, but like it's a
role I can play on TV.
You know of somebody's needs,but like, absolutely not.
Micah Riot (31:19):
The pain of it is not doing something nice for me
you know, but that's, that'slike level 202, you know, yeah,
and also, what pain is to youraverage lay person is something
complex and layered andintricate to somebody who is
kinky, right like for sure.
If I'm spanking my partner, Iimagine how the warmth and the
(31:45):
sting and the pleasure of itlike feels at the same time, and
then I can tune into how she'sfeeling and so like that gives
me pleasure.
Sure, because I can imaginethat it feels nice.
But like the idea of just likecausing someone pain, like for
the sake of pain, right like Ithink that's also why I like
things.
Ayden Love (32:05):
Like cutting things I cannot imagine, because
cutting to me seems like a lotmore pain than pleasure and
that's kind of besides the pointyeah, I mean it's also also
personal the way differentpeople integrate different
sensory experiences, you know,and it's also I mean like if you
(32:25):
do any kind of intentionalmagic ritual, anything like that
, there's like a good chancethat you're a really empathetic
person and combining all thesereally complex experiences while
also having your own energeticboundaries and taking care of
yourself.
It's just like actually waymore to hold than I think most
(32:47):
people are thinking of when theycome in and get a random flash
piece.
Micah Riot (32:49):
You know For sure.
Yeah, and I, like you, Ihaven't done a lot of those
kinds of tattoos.
I've only done those tattooswhen I've guest bought it.
Really, you know, I guess Iequate the flash with more
walk-in style of work.
I don't really draw flash.
Maybe it's time because that'swhat the economy is pointing to.
(33:11):
But, yeah, like, my tattoos tendto be all very ritualistic,
without really setting it upthat way, because people come
have to wait.
I mean you, you know, like thepeople who wait and you do
custom work for, like for themit's deep and important and when
they're there, like they'rereally ready for it.
So, yeah, I guess I'm just likeback to the kink conversation,
(33:32):
because I think that's sointeresting, and talking to you
specifically about it.
Um, I would like to draw inmore kink, specific and like,
like I I guess overt dynamicsthat but there aren't going to
(33:55):
be seen as sexual, right, like,just just because I'm doing this
thing for you and we're callingit this thing, that doesn't
it's not a reason for you to hiton me.
It not a reason for me to hiton you, like it's not to do with
romantic or sexual dynamics,right?
Ayden Love (34:10):
or, you like, the.
The chance of someone beingseen is like crossing a boundary
, like you know, because that'sthe other piece of it, you know
like that right, yeah, and likeas a young person, like I, you
know, was assaulted by's.
The other piece of it, you know,like right, yeah, and like as a
young person, like I, you know,was assaulted by a tattooer
while getting tattooed when Iwas 18 and like brand new to it,
and so I think that reallyinforms how I try to talk to
people about their bodies whilethey're getting tattooed and try
(34:33):
to be aware of that inherent,like power dynamic that you
really can't get rid of.
But sometimes the thing thatmakes it safe is just naming it
right.
So maybe, in saying it reallyblatantly and out loud, that
that's the thing that you'retrying to attract and that's the
type of session that you'retrying to do will bring you the
people that understand what itis and are trying to have the
(34:55):
same kind of experience thatyou're trying to have, because
it's like you were just saying,I think, yeah, definitely, the
majority of my clients arecoming to me with really heavy
shit that they're processingthrough an experience that I'm
with them for.
Um, and it was a ritual beforeI called it a ritual and before
I set up all of the extra stuffaround it.
Um, and, in some ways, thatversion of it, the less
(35:19):
manicured version of it, is moreaccessible for some people that
are not familiar with some ofthe more explicit aspects of it,
but sometimes, if you just aresaying it out loud, then people
can say yes, that's definitelywhat I want, even if I didn't
previously know that that was athing I could ask for.
Micah Riot (35:36):
Mm-hmm, and that's definitely not a thing people
think they can ask for, becausewe're also.
We don't speak about powerdynamics or intimate things.
You know very much in public orwith providers.
Ayden Love (36:00):
Unless it's like a very specifically the context of
hiring a sex worker.
Like you know, they've reallygot the skill set.
Maybe we should do like aSkillshare trade between
professions to like merge someof the brilliant skills.
Micah Riot (36:15):
That is brilliant.
Actually can think of somebodywho would probably be a good
candidate for that.
Yeah, yeah um, yeah, but forwhat it's worth.
Ayden Love (36:27):
If anybody is thinking of coming to you for
this, I can say my experiencewith my kink explicit tattoo uh,
you were the perfect person and, um, I really loved what you
brought to it in terms offacilitating that aspect of it.
Micah Riot (36:43):
I appreciate you saying that.
That's very kind for you to say.
I guess I really like authentic, honest, unexpected dynamics
and truths in a space you knowwhere it's kind of like with
tattoos.
You know like I like for thingsto not be super linear and like
(37:04):
take a wild turn.
I'm like I love that, like thisis part of being human.
So doing something unexpectedor unusual or something people
don't come to me often for isalways exciting.
Ayden Love (37:18):
Definitely.
Yeah, that's how you stay in itwith inspiration and gratitude,
right.
Micah Riot (37:24):
Mm-hmm, with inspiration and gratitude, right
?
Um, I wanted to ask you aquestion earlier when you were
talking about the ritual andlike what comes to you in the
midst of that as you're workingwith this person.
Is you so?
You have a specific style?
You have like a niche style?
Um, do you ever have people whoare in that space and then
(37:44):
asking for something that youdon't usually do?
Ayden Love (37:47):
Not in the ritual space.
I feel like I've been reallylucky to just have the clients
that are very, very open to likejust receiving what happens in
the session, and I'm trying toreally create an environment
where they still feel like theycan say, like, no, I don't like
that, Like, even if I feel likeI got this information from
(38:07):
somewhere from the ether orwhatever, I don't want them to
feel like they have to get it.
You know, Um, and it has feltlike a really collaborative
process.
Um, but it was really informedby when I so I, when I was
living in Portland this is themost stereotypical sentence I
could possibly say.
But when I was living inPortland, this is the most
stereotypical sentence I couldpossibly say.
(38:28):
But when I was living inPortland, I went to witch school
and one of the areas of magicthat felt really like I had been
doing it my whole life I justdidn't have a name for it was
making charms for people, and sowhen I started tattooing, I did
a lot of designs that were sortof charm informed, and that's
(38:49):
the way that I think of it.
So there are like bits andpieces that I can imagine if I
were making a physical charm tohand somebody, that those are
like my personal symbolism thatI might bring in, but other
people are bringing in, you know, their own components and my
job is to sort of weave thatnarrative together in a cohesive
way.
But yeah, so far nobody hascome through trying to get a
(39:15):
ritual tattoo and then beinglike but could you make it like
Garfield skin rip kind ofExactly?
Yeah, which is a real tattoo Idid, but that was um not in a
ritual context.
Micah Riot (39:29):
So, like stylistically, given that you
have such a niche style, willyou sometimes go outside of that
?
Like if somebody is like I wanta rainbow bright, like whatever
.
Ayden Love (39:41):
Sure, I mean, I think that stuff is fun as long
as I feel like technically I canexecute it.
Some stuff I I'm just like Idon't know how to do that.
I don't even know how to drawthat, but for example, I did
tattoo Garfield skin rippingthrough my friend Leanne's leg
and then behind the skin rip itwas a rainbow flag and then
there was a banner that saidthese colors don't run, don't
(40:08):
run, um.
And that's not something Iwould ever tattoo out of my
brain.
But when Leanne was like I needthis really specific niche um
idea, I was like anything forLeanne, you know right.
Micah Riot (40:16):
When, like, a friend asks you, you're like yeah,
I'll do it for you.
So then would you postsomething like that.
Ayden Love (40:21):
I did post it, yeah, because I thought it was a
fucking hilarious tattoo.
Okay, cause it's also like a,you know, a reference to like, I
think.
I think it's like bumperstickers in the South that are
like these colors don't run, andthen it's like an American flag
or like I don't know somereally bullshit thing.
And you know, we were justtrying to have a moment of like.
Not everyone in the South is abigot.
Micah Riot (40:50):
And like just turning it around on its head.
Yeah, yeah, um.
So I wonder that, though, aboutpeople who have a very new
style like, who are like this iswhat I do, this is, you know,
and the scope of this like kindof a narrow style.
I guess I do all thesedifferent things.
Um, by narrow I don't mean, youknow, not expansive, just a
specific line work and shadingand all that.
Do you do other stuff and notpost it?
(41:10):
Like, how do you keep your say?
You know, social media lookingmore linear tends to attract
more people, more followers.
Ayden Love (41:18):
Sometimes I feel almost like I've backed myself
into a corner with the styleLike there are things that I'd
like to explore more, but peoplesee a certain thing on your
page and then that's the thingthat they ask for, and while I
would love to tattoo flowersuntil the day I die, you know,
occasionally I'd like to putsome color in there, and so I
feel really grateful when peopledo ask for something that's not
(41:40):
all over my feed, cause itgives me a chance to do
something new.
But, like, at the end of the day, if I'm saying no to a request,
it's because I just don't thinkthat if I did it, I think you
would be able to tell I wasfaking it.
You know what I mean.
It's like I've had a few peopleask me to like do recreations
(42:01):
of some other thing that theysaw, and I'm like it's going to
look like a photocopy of aphotocopy of a photocopy.
This isn't.
This isn't how I work, and Ithink that's probably both um a
part of the luxury of being someself-taught tattooer that
didn't have to like strugglethrough walk-in shop years, um,
(42:22):
that I just got spoiled in doingmy own art, but the other piece
of it is like it does make youless adaptable in these times of
, you know, recession, like Ican't just go get a job doing
Sailor Jerry pinup style stuff,cause I don't know how to do it.
Micah Riot (42:39):
I mean, you'd probably learn, since you were
in the States.
Ayden Love (42:42):
I would need some help, but for sure I mean there
are also days where I'm likethere are artistic visions in my
mind that I technically don'tknow how to execute, that I
would love to just walk into ashop and pretend that I've never
tattooed in my life and try toget an apprenticeship so that I
could learn to be like a neotrad bro, cause I think that
shit's beautiful.
Micah Riot (42:59):
But like I don't people say you know online, like
if you are self-taught and youdon't feel like you have the you
know the basic skills, like youcould get an apprenticeship or
kind of like retrain or work insomeone else's shop and like
unofficially retrain right.
Like I've thought about it,cause I also feel like I'm
self-taught, like I don't thinkmy apprenticeship was um in any
(43:29):
way formal.
Ayden Love (43:29):
There was, you know, the person who was supposed to
be my teacher was not there verymuch and when they were they
were tattooing and not watchingme and like not talking to me.
So, yeah, I hear, I hear thatfrom a lot of people and it
seems so unfortunate becausemost people that I've talked to
had really unfortunateapprenticeship experiences and
still ended up kind of having toteach themselves.
And yeah, I think it's scary.
But sometimes I do think aboutjust like trying to go get an
apprenticeship to learn adifferent way of doing it, cause
(43:50):
I certainly don't think mine isthe best way, it's just the one
I've come up with, you know.
Micah Riot (43:54):
And it's work for you, so you're doing it.
I mean, that makes sense, likesame for me.
Ayden Love (43:58):
Totally.
Micah Riot (43:59):
And I have, over time, just kind of been like
okay, I'm like somebody you know, I did a traditional back piece
and it was like hard but alsoreally fun, and I think he's
really happy with it, and I waslike I would do more of this.
But because it's not on my feedyeah, people don't come for it,
but when they do like, I getexcited about it and I'll teach
(44:21):
myself to do more of it for sure.
Ayden Love (44:24):
Really, yeah, the way I sort of like sneak it in
every now and then is, if I'minterested in exploring
something that's not all over myfeed, I'll just draw something
in that style and then post itand see if anybody wants it, and
it'll give me a chance to sortof play around with new stuff.
But now I feel like theinternet doesn't show any of my
stuff to anyone, so it kind ofdoesn't matter anymore.
Micah Riot (44:46):
So, speaking of the internet and it's showing your
stuff to people which it doesn't, you're right.
How did you build yourfollowing?
I mean, for a tattooer who'snot been doing that long, do you
have a good following?
Ayden Love (44:58):
Yeah, I mean, I think I was just kind of.
I think I just lucked out inthe time and the place that I
started tattooing and I am inthe South and my primary
clientele are like queer andtrans younger people and so
there's not a ton of us doingthat kind of experience and in
(45:24):
addition to that, when I startedtattooing there was not very
many people doing fine line workat all in all of North Carolina
, and especially not like fineline botanical stuff, the way
that I tend to focus on.
So I feel like it was just kindof the luck of that moment.
And when I first started out, Ithink I was a lot more
(45:46):
boisterous and personable on theinternet.
I'm a little tired and oldernow and so I don't put as much
of my self personality forward,but the internet is a terrible
game that you can play.
And if you're like, willing tolike put on a cute outfit and
talk to the camera, people seewhat you're doing more.
But it made me feel bad in myspirit Cause I was like I don't
(46:08):
know, I could you just look atmy art?
That's actually the thing I'mtrying to show you.
I'm not trying to be like apersonality, so I definitely see
less engagement, the less ofmyself I'm trying to put on the
internet.
But also, people are fuckinginsane.
I had people like getting in myDMs being like who's your sperm
donor, and I'm like that'screepy, like I don't even know
you.
So, like the more of yourselfyou put on the internet, the
(46:30):
more of yourself you're kind oflike vulnerable with, and at the
end of the day, I was like I'mjust trying to draw tattoos for
you.
Like I'll get vulnerable inyour session once we like know
each other, but you don'tdeserve these parts of me just
because you saw them on theinternet.
So I got a little creeped outand I think, as a result, like I
(46:53):
spend less time being there onthe internet.
Micah Riot (46:58):
Yeah, and the internet's not really rewarding
anyway, like it just feels like,yeah, everyone is putting in a
lot of effort, people who aredoing well, putting in lots of
effort to make the stuff thatthey're putting out, and it's
not energy that I have.
Ayden Love (47:12):
It's also like a whole full time job, like not
only do you have to be atattooer and do the tattoos and
do the drawings for the tattoosand the emails for the tattoos,
but now you also have to be avideographer and an editor and,
you know, have this whole otherjob.
Micah Riot (47:30):
So what happens if tattoo industry dies?
What are you going to do?
Ayden Love (47:33):
Well, like I said, as a thought experiment.
Micah Riot (47:39):
What's that?
As a thought experiment, morethan like reality, because I
don't think it's going to happen, but like sure, let's dream,
let's dream about it.
Ayden Love (47:50):
Well, I am still a massage therapist, and so two
days a week I do pediatric bodywork.
Um, and as much as that's likea fallback in case the tattoo
industry disappears for me, um,it's also just that, as a
neurodivergent person, I neednovelty to be able to stay
interested and to stay good atwhat I'm doing, and so being
(48:12):
able to sort of bounce back andforth between two really
different styles of using mybrain helps me stay sharper in
both of them, so I can still dopediatric body work.
Micah Riot (48:23):
I guess Pediatric you mean for kids yeah, I do
mostly.
Ayden Love (48:27):
I would say like three months and under is my
main um population that I workwith, like babies, babies,
newborns, wild, that's wild,yeah, but it's really fun and
they're so receptive and likeopen.
Micah Riot (48:45):
I imagine, so I'm afraid of babies, so I could
never do it, but like you'reafraid of like dropping them or
something, Um, I think the ideaof dealing with their bodies is
terrifying because they are sothere with their bodies is
(49:07):
terrifying because they are sothey can't communicate like in a
adult way, like that'scomfortable, that's
uncomfortable, that hurts, likeI know they'll cry and they'll
probably move and stuff, like Iknow they communicate.
But it feels so alien to me theidea of, like you, know like
learning the language yeah, likeas a as a person who parented a
kid for a time.
(49:28):
my, my stepson, was four when Imet him, and so it's what he had
some language so much languageand like so much expression,
attitude and all that so like afour.
You know, when he first met mehe was like I do not care to
know you at all, and it took usa while to get to a place where
he like trusted me enough tolike interact with, not care to
know you at all, and it took usa while to get to a place where
he like trusted me enough tolike interact with me and cry
(49:50):
with me and like play with meand all the stuff.
Um, it was beautiful and hard.
But four like three.
Ayden Love (49:56):
Four feels like the age I can start to like do deal
with kids at like younger is soscary if you threw yourself into
it, I bet you'd be better at itthan you're giving yourself
credit for, because you dealwith people's nonverbal
communication all day, every day, like you're constantly reading
somebody's cues about whetherthey need a water break or if
they're about to tap out, orlike you're doing the same thing
(50:17):
.
Babies are not any different.
They're just doing it withoutwords, but they still have that
whole system of language intheir bodies, and that's what
I'm reading when I'm workingwith them.
Micah Riot (50:28):
That makes complete sense and I definitely you know
it's like we're not all good atthe same things and I love the
fact that this is like a passionfor you and also your parent,
and you're going to be a parentagain and like this is your
thing.
I can see how amazing you areas like a nurturing figure in
like a person's life, you know,and you're like, I still don't
(50:48):
want to hang out with babies.
I mean, it's like if it's likemy dear friend's baby, you know,
it's like when I imagine thefolks that are around me now,
especially the younger folksthat I feel nurturing towards
that, I feel like I'm theirqueer uncle or their like
grandpa.
In case of Sailor, if, like,one of them got pregnant, had a
baby, I would be, I wouldtotally be there for them.
(51:08):
You know, the baby had babiesto the baby.
I would feed it, I would stayup night with it, whatever, like
I would do the things as like agood grandparent would.
Yeah, but I definitely am likewas happy to skip, like the
parent part of like having thelittle baby of mine, like
starting at four and on and thennow having people in their 20s.
(51:31):
I'd be like my children.
This is, you know, I like I, Ifeel I feel good about this.
He's got your niche yeah, my,exactly, I have a niche of
parenting yeah.
Ayden Love (51:44):
so my, I guess my fallback is that particular
niche of mine.
But lately, because of theneurodivergence, I have to like,
uh, quit my career and get anew one every six years.
And lately I've been like whatif I just quit all of it and go
become a nail tech?
Okay, and like, you get to doall of the art, but none of it
is permanent and you can justlike.
(52:04):
And like you get to do all ofthe art, but none of it is
permanent and you can just like,do it over again if they don't
like it.
Micah Riot (52:08):
It's just that I feel like you'd have to work so
much to make money to live on.
Ayden Love (52:15):
I don't know Like a full set's, like 150 bucks.
Micah Riot (52:20):
Hmm, you spend, like what, an hour on it.
Yeah, maybe an hour.
See, I don't know anythingabout it because I don't do
nails.
I don't get nails.
Have you seen the show claws?
I love the show claws, yeahokay it's very inspiring, like
watching a show.
I'm like I could be like agangster nail tag.
Ayden Love (52:38):
Okay, you could yeah , you could launder a bunch of
money.
Micah Riot (52:41):
While you like, paint really cool designs on
nails right, there was like aRussian mafia person yeah, it's
part of it and like the butch,the one that's butch I was like,
wow, this is so great.
Ayden Love (52:51):
Wow, I really.
Now I want to revisit that show.
Micah Riot (52:55):
I like love the show for a while and then I was like
this is getting tedious, Likethere's too many different
mafias for the main character,Like she's so stressed out.
I just like can't watch her bethat stressed out anymore.
Ayden Love (53:07):
You just want something good to happen to her.
Finally.
Micah Riot (53:09):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and like it just keeps getting
shit and shit and shit and I'mjust like she's the best and
she's really suffering here andI can't watch this anymore.
Ayden Love (53:18):
Yeah, that's real.
Yeah, I go back and forth withGrey's Anatomy in that same way,
like I can watch it for like amonth and then I'm like this is
too much misfortune.
Micah Riot (53:30):
I need to take a break.
Yeah, watching shows where it'sjust like bad shit keeps
happening is yeah, bad shitkeeps happening out there in the
world.
Ayden Love (53:38):
There's already enough bad shit.
I don't need to watchentertainment about bad shit.
Micah Riot (53:44):
Yeah, for real.
Do you have a showrecommendation for me and the
listeners?
What's your like favorite thing?
That's comfort or justsomething you really liked in
the last couple of years.
Ayden Love (53:57):
In true neurodivergent fashion.
I just keep rewatching theX-Files every time I need to
feel comfortable.
That's my like safe zone.
It's just like me and DanaScully forever.
Micah Riot (54:08):
Okay, that's very, very retro classic of you.
Ayden Love (54:12):
Yeah, it's never going to be a new one, because I
was raised Pentecostal so Iwasn't allowed to have TV when I
was young, so everything is newto me.
So I didn't get the X fileslike in the nineties when
everyone else did.
I got it a couple of years ago.
Micah Riot (54:27):
Got it, but it like you're talking about, like the
retro 90s style of it.
Right, there's no remake, it'sjust that old.
Ayden Love (54:33):
Yeah, it's just the original and I just watched it
for the first time, like someyears back, and now I just keep
rewatching it.
Micah Riot (54:41):
That's great.
I never watched it because Ididn't come here to this country
until I was 12 and I waswatching Saved by the Bell.
Ayden Love (54:51):
There you go, or Buffy.
I feel like Buffy is my otherone.
Last night I saw this newhorror movie with a friend of
mine and I left it thinkingabout how many references to
feminism were interlaid intosome of the visuals.
And then I was like this couldbe a whole dissertation.
And then I thought about whatit would be on my drive home.
Micah Riot (55:09):
that would be a dissertation would be yeah, yeah
, what was the movie?
It was the new omen movie.
Okay, yeah, did you watchspeaking of horror?
Did you watch love liesbleeding?
Ayden Love (55:20):
that was the one with which one was that.
That was the one with k, whichone was that.
Micah Riot (55:24):
That was the one with Kristen Stewart, yeah.
Ayden Love (55:27):
Yes, I did.
Okay, Did you?
I absolutely loved it.
Micah Riot (55:31):
I was sure you did.
Yeah, something up your alley.
Um, I had no idea what I waswalking into.
I completely didn't know.
It would be like that.
Ayden Love (55:40):
You saw it too.
Micah Riot (55:41):
I saw it early on, when I first came out, just
being like oh, it's like aworking class lesbian love story
.
Ayden Love (55:48):
Boy, were you wrong?
Huh, yes, I was.
Were you unhappy or were youpleased?
Micah Riot (55:57):
I was freaked out, honestly.
I think even more so because mypartner sitting next to me kept
being like why did you bring mehere?
Like why are we here?
Like I would not have come if Iknew, and I was like I didn't
know either.
And then I got really defensivebecause I didn't know either
and I felt like responsible forlike how she felt.
Ayden Love (56:16):
So that must've felt awful.
I also didn't know what themovie was about when I went into
it.
Somebody described it to me aslesbian fight club and I was
like, obviously I'm in, butthat's not what that movie is at
all.
Micah Riot (56:29):
No.
Ayden Love (56:29):
Yeah, I feel like we all needed more information
going in Um, but I I was reallypleased with my outcome and I'm
sorry you weren't.
Micah Riot (56:39):
Well, most people who I've talked about it loved
it the way you did and, you know, wanted to see it again.
I did and, you know, wanted tosee it again.
I think you know the firstmurder scene, what I was fine
with, even though it was graphicand intense, like I don't mind
cool special effects wherethere's like pieces of skull
missing, yeah, like that I wasfine with.
And then it's like it gotfurther, yeah, progressively
(57:02):
more gruesome and bloody andintense.
That's where I was like do wenot get a break?
Like there's not going to belike just something else, like
nice happening no, they werereally not giving you anything
nice in that one no, theyweren't.
But like the end, when they'reskipping through the fields as
like unicorns and there's likerainbows, I was like, okay, give
(57:25):
us some camp, I'll take somecamp, yeah I I really
appreciated some of the breaksfor surrealist weirdness that
happened in it.
Ayden Love (57:34):
I thought it was really visually beautiful.
Also, if I'm like not enjoyinga movie, sometimes I'll just
sort of zone in on like thecolor palette or the camera
angles or whatever, and that'llusually get me through to the
end at least.
But yeah, it was a gruesomemovie and I did not know that
that was about to happen.
Micah Riot (57:53):
If you do watch lesbian, if you do want lesbian
fight club, there's a movie onI'll remember what it's called
now and I'll talk to you aboutit but there's like a teenage
movie online that's literallylesbian fight club.
It's these two teenage girls inhigh school decide that they
will start having fight club asa way to get closer to their
(58:15):
crushes, their female crushes.
It's called bottoms bottomsokay yeah, and it's quite
literally that teenage lesbianfight club that is so cute.
There's lots of fighting andpeople hitting each other and
it's like pretty done in like avery juicy way where there's
lots of sound effects and wow,bloody noses and stuff well,
(58:36):
maybe I'll take a break from the.
X-files tonight.
I think you would enjoy it.
I think you actually wouldreally enjoy it, yeah, so last
question I ask my guests is whatis something small that's been
making you happy lately?
Ayden Love (58:52):
Um, so it's very spring in North Carolina right
now and my yard is full of wildstrawberries Like I've never
seen so many in my whole life,and this morning my son
discovered them, and so we spenta good chunk of this morning
just gathering wild strawberriesand eating them, and it was
(59:19):
it's the most joy I've felt inweeks, I think.
Definitely like the springcoming, my child playing in the
yard, all that is feeling likebig joy.
Micah Riot (59:30):
Wild strawberry flavor is one of my most
favorite tastes in the world.
Ayden Love (59:35):
Really yeah, yeah.
Micah Riot (59:37):
It's such a specific thing.
It doesn't to me, doesn't tastelike strawberry, strawberry,
but it's.
There's something very specialabout it.
Ayden Love (59:45):
It's almost kind of ephemeral you know, yeah, it's
not like a hit you in the face.
Flavor.
Micah Riot (59:52):
No, but it's a very specific flavor.
Ayden Love (59:54):
Totally.
Yeah, well, you should comeover to my yard, cause they are
going off right now.
Micah Riot (59:58):
Okay, I'm on my way, thank you, thanks for coming on
the podcast.
It was so kind of you to bothto be down and also to be like
like last minute.
I'm like how about tomorrow?
You're like yeah, okay, thankyou.
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