Ep. 76: Jews With Tattoos, a conversation with Ali, That Jewish Feminist

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Ali is the creator of the Instagram community @jews.withtattoos
After starting the page she quickly gained a following, and as people started requesting guidance on finding Jewish tattoo artists, she created a spreadsheet to help artists and clients connect. You can find that spreadsheet linked to the above mentioned Instagram page, Jews With Tattoos (https://www.instagram.com/jews.withtattoos/)

I met Ali briefly last fall when she reached out wanting to highlight me as a tattoo artist and a fellow jew. At the time I wasn't ready to be highlighted. But recently I decided I wanted to ask her to be on Ink Medicine and tell my audience about her journey as a tattoo collector and an online activist.

You can find Ali on Jews.WithTattoos, also on https://www.instagram.com/thatjewishfeminist/
And on Tik Tok as That Jewish Feminist where she talks about ... being a Jewish Feminist. And other important things we don't talk about enough.

All of the tattoo artists Ali mentions linked below:
https://www.instagram.com/kat.o.tat     Kat, (Boston area)

https://www.instagram.com/beastlyflowers    Aaliyah (Muslim identified artist, in case you're looking for one, based in Boston area)

https://www.instagram.com/sarahroseink      Sarah (Boston area)

https://www.instagram.com/ant_grayce      Ant (specializes in tricky spots like butt cheeks) (Philly, but travels)

https://www.instagram.com/razzoukwassim     Razzouk, (based in Israel)

You can connect with me, Micah Riot, as well as see my tattoo art on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/micahriot/

Micah's website is www.micahriot.com
The podcast is hosted on Buzzsprout but truly lives in the heart of Micah's website at:
https://www.micahriot.com/ink-medicine-podcast/

Episode Transcript

Micah Riot (00:00):
Hello, dear listeners, mayaka Rai here.
Welcome to Ink Medicine Podcast, where I and other people delve
deeper into our obsession withtattoos and tattoo culture and
the people who make thiscommunity so great.
Today I'm talking to Ali ofJews with Tattoos, a community

(00:22):
on Instagram.
She approached me sometime inthe fall.
She wanted to highlight me as aJewish tattoo artist on her
page, which was so sweet andgenerous, and at the time I just
could not say yes, which wewill talk about in the episode.
And since then I have felt morecomfortable to be publicly out

(00:42):
as a Jewish person, as secularas I am, and I decided to ask
her to be on the podcast.
So here we are we talk aboutbeing Jewish and loving tattoos,
we talk about being secular, wetalk about being a Jewish
person online and what that islike, and we acknowledge our

(01:03):
grief about the people of Gazalosing their lives unnecessarily
under the fire of Israeligovernment.
But that is not the focus ofthis episode.
It's really all about Jews withtattoos and how Ali came to
create the community that shehas created on the internet, on
Instagram, and I'm alwayscurious about people's tattoo

(01:25):
journeys, so I do delve quite abit into her personal journey in
getting tattooed, and how shepositions herself as a client,
how she seeks out her artistsand why and how she feels about
the state of modern tattooculture.
Ali is the sweetest human and Ithink you'll really enjoy this
episode.

(01:46):
So here we go.

Ali (02:12):
Hi, ali hello nice to meet you nice to meet you too.

Micah Riot (02:17):
Thanks for agreeing to come on the podcast of course
I mean, we're on theme, you'rea big tattoo lover, so this is a
tattoo related podcast.
So let's say, will you tell usum, your, your name, as much as
maybe you have a bigger name, alonger name, your pronouns,

(02:39):
where you are located and whatwas the last tattoo you got?

Ali (02:44):
Yeah, so my name is Allie, I'm online, I'm known as that
Jewish feminist, or Jews withtattoos.
My pronouns are she, her, and Ilive in the Boston area.
The last tattoo I got, Istarted on my back piece, which
is like a larger um art nouveauwork with jewish themes, and I'm

(03:08):
really, really excited about itthat's super cool.

Micah Riot (03:11):
Um, can I see it?
I mean, yeah, but you're likewearing a top where I can see
some of it, okay this here, soit's synagogue on one side and
um lady justice on the other.

Ali (03:24):
I don't, can you see, kind of?
Yes, I can kind of see, uh,yeah yeah, so it's like it's
gonna be a while before it getsdone, um, it's gonna be like
multiple, multiple sessions, um.
But just started with the twofigures on the side for now okay
, um, so tell me about your likejourney into this.

Micah Riot (03:43):
So you're?
You look really young, likeyou're in your 20s, I assume
almost 20 yeah right and you'relike you're getting you clearly,
you know well tattooed.
At this point you're gettingwork clearly for a while now,
like what has it been like foryou?
Like when did you, how old wereyou when you were first?

Ali (04:00):
like I'm definitely gonna get tattoos when I get older so
I think I was always kind offascinated with tattooing um.
I came I'm a patrilineal Jew,so my dad is Jewish but my mom
is not, and I was raised uminterfaith and my mom, even
though she didn't have tattoos,was always like very pro tattoo

(04:23):
um and she had a fascinationwith it as well.
And so growing up interfaithand growing up in reform Judaism
I had, I didn't have thenegative view of tattooing that
a lot of Jews have and I alwaysthought like when the time is
right, I will come up withsomething and I will get my

(04:43):
first tattoo and then that'llstart me on a journey.
I'll either think that this islike the worst pain in the world
and never do it again, or Iwill love it.
And I loved it.
It was actually partly despitemy mom.
My mom thought I wouldn't beable to take the pain of
tattooing.
She was like convinced, and Igot a cartilage piercing and she

(05:04):
was like you're not gonna beable to take the pain of
tattooing.
She was like convinced and, um,I got a cartilage piercing and
she was like you're not gonna beable to take that and I, I got
that with no problem.
And then after the first tattoo, I was like mom, that was
nothing, um.
So my first tattoo I got in2017.
Um, back then, like 2015, 2016,2017 it was really trendy to get
an inner finger tattoo, and soon my inner finger on my right

(05:30):
hand, I have Hebrew letteringthat says Zihut, which means
identity, and I really wanted myfirst tattoo to be something
Jewish themed and something thathad a lot of meaning, to be
something Jewish themed andsomething that had a lot of
meaning.
I felt like I had other ideasfor tattoos, but I couldn't
really move forward with any ofthem until I got this one.

(05:52):
I just wanted this to be thefirst one, and I expected to be
in a lot of pain and really likeI handled it pretty well.
I got it in the old city inJerusalem, at Razuk, and they
have a long history of tattooingbeing passed down from
generations and they have abeautiful story, and so it just

(06:13):
really felt like a meaningfulexperience to me, and from there
I got one other tattoo in 2017.
And then I finished my senioryear of college.
I was very college poor, and sothere was no tattooing
happening while I was still inschool, and then, once I got out

(06:34):
of school, I started to lookinto tattoos in the Boston area,
which was where I moved to, andin 2020 was really where I
amped up tattooing.
I was working for a Jewishorganization and I wasn't sure
exactly how they were going tofeel about me getting tattoos.
But in 2020, I was workingremotely, so it wasn't like

(06:58):
every single day people aregoing to see a new tattoo appear
on me, and so it felt morenormalized for myself and yeah,
then it's just kind of gone onfrom there.
I really enjoy working with acore group of non-binary and
female tattooers, and then Ialso love just going to flash
days like finding new artistsand seeing that they have like

(07:20):
cool flash and getting thattattooed.
Flash days make me so happy.
I don't know why.
It's a lot of sitting around,but I just love doing them, um,
so that's kind of where I'm atright now okay, that's fun that
you're saying that.

Micah Riot (07:34):
I you know, like I came up in an era where flash
days weren't a thing anymore,like we all went super custom
and it was all custom for a longtime and now they're back, but
because I have a private studio,like I don't you know, it's not
something I really have done,but recently a friend of mine
who owns a bigger shop was likelet's do like a flash day for a
bunch of us, like a bigcommunity flash day.

(07:54):
So I'm participating in a flashday at another shop where it's
like circus style, flash likecircus and that's so cool.
Yeah, like show comes to townlike.
And I was like, oh cool, likelittle circusy figurines and
like snacks, like you know, um,what do you call that stuff?

Ali (08:12):
the uh, like the peanuts.

Micah Riot (08:15):
I don't know if I'll draw peanuts.

Ali (08:16):
That seems small but um snack peanuts that people eat at
the circus, totally yes.

Micah Riot (08:22):
I mean I could be like any kind of old school.
I was like thinking old school,but anyway I'm excited to like
draw a little circusy things.
I'm drawing like a sillylooking tiger drumming through a
hoop of fire and stuff, butanyway I have not done a flash
day ever in like my 15 plus nowyears of tattooing and I'm doing
my first one like in a coupleweeks that's so exciting.

Ali (08:44):
I find that, like people get so excited around flash days
the one that I there's aprivate studio that I go to,
that, um, they, they have flashdays, like maybe once every two
months and people line.
People line up for a noon startat like nine in the morning,
and so I'm always I always likegrab my husband.

(09:04):
I'm like we're going early.
This time we're gonna be likefirst in line.
I'm always like fourth in linenice, that's how you get.

Micah Riot (09:11):
That's how you get it.
Yeah, you got to be there early, but yeah, like I don't, your
studio must have a really bigonline following, because I feel
like that's a key to asuccessful flash day is like
getting the word out having lotsof people know about it oh yeah
, the artist that I go to thereum, her handle on Instagram is
katotat.

Ali (09:32):
Um, she went viral when she was an apprentice on TikTok and
so she really like brings out alot of people for her flash
days and I'm always like liningup to go to them.

Micah Riot (09:44):
Okay.
So has it been important foryou, since you have you hold
such a strong Jewish identity,to find Jewish tattooists also?
Or you're just fine with like,as long as they're not like
straight men?
You know?
You know because you're sayingyou work with non-binary and
women artists.

Ali (10:00):
Yeah, I think so kind of two answers there.
I like working with Jewishartists when I can, and one of
the core people I work with is aJewish artist, but for me it's
really just about like feelingcomfortable in that vulnerable
space and having someone wholike recognizes and understands
that my identity plays a part inhow I'm getting tattooed and I

(10:22):
don't like to close myself offto just Jewish tattoo artists,
um, personally, but I totallyunderstand people who do really
like to have that affinity groupthere when they get tattooed.
for me I it's such a vulnerableexperience to get tattooed and
you have, like I think peopleunderestimate like the hands
touching you, like everywhere,and especially if you're

(10:46):
especially, like you're gettinga spot where, like skin is being
stretched, like you really haveto give over a certain amount
of control to another person, um, and for me, like I feel more
comfortable ceding control tonon-binary and women artists, um
, but that's not to say mencan't be fantastic tattoo

(11:06):
artists.
I have gotten tattoos by men,but in general, like my core
group, I like to work with womenand non-binary people.

Micah Riot (11:14):
So you say your core group, like how many artists do
you keep in this core group ofyours?

Ali (11:19):
I know it sounds, I'm just I'm trying to come up with a way
to describe it.
No, I think it's fine.

Micah Riot (11:30):
I think it's like you know there's different ways,
like I did an episode on what Icalled polytattery, which is
when you get different,different work from different
people in the same time frame,which is a way for sure people
do.
It's like different peopleapproach it differently, right?
I have clients who are like I'monly ever going to you, and
people who were going to me fora while but then started going
to somebody else because theywanted a different style, right?
So there's different ways tocollect, but it sounds like you

(11:50):
go to different people in thesame timeframe.

Ali (11:53):
Yeah, so I have three tattoo artists that I work with
very consistently, um, and theyall know about each other.
I like I felt weird at first.
I was really going to oneperson.
She's at Lucky's Tattoo andPiercing in Cambridge,
massachusetts Aaliyah.
She is fantastic.

(12:13):
I was going to her reallyreally consistently from like
2021 to 2023.
Almost just her, like a fewpeople here and there, but
really just her.
But then she got popular andshe was really hard to book and
I totally root for her success.
But I had like things I wantedto get done and so I looked at
other artists during that timeand started working with at

(12:38):
Pearl Street Tattoo Club, sarahand Cat O Tat, who is fantastic.
They all do black work but theyare slight variations of each
other.
I find that like Aaliyah doeslike really good, like packed in
trad black, sarah is much morelike etching style.

(12:58):
And then Cat does fine line workand so it's kind of these
facets of things that I likeabout tattooing and like to have
on my body and I feel reallygreat that I have like this core
group that like understandsthat I'm gonna get tattooed by
other people and is likesupportive of that and kind
about it um and then I just alsolike I find artists in my area

(13:20):
and we'll go to them and justlike kind of temperature check
and see how I feel about gettingthings done by them.
Or like someone does like reallytrad pieces and I'm someone who
only has black work and blackand gray tattoos, but I really
want something in a trad style.
So I'll work with them one timeand just get that piece and
like that's kind of how I workwith that.

(13:40):
Um, but if I see flash, I likeI'll go to anyone pretty much.
But for custom stuff.
I have, like those three peoplethat I go to, yeah, I mean it
makes sense.

Micah Riot (13:50):
I think you know, as long as you are really open
with people like hey, you're oneof three people that I go to
consistently, it's all good.
It's like you know where itbecomes when you come, come to
the same person over and overand over again and then you show

(14:11):
up with a brand new tattoo, saynothing, like you know, and the
other person's like you got anew tattoo, like you didn't not
that you owe me anything, butlike it's nice to be, to have my
client be like look, I'mtraveling, I'm gonna get a piece
from this person, or what?
Like what I was chasing is itjust?
I just like a heads up.
Just because it's otherwise,it's awkward, you know.

Ali (14:24):
So awkward.
The first time I had to tellAaliyah I was working with
someone else was so awkward, butshe was like so great about it
and we're like verycommunicative.
Aaliyah is the person doing myback piece also.
And she identifies with a Muslimculture, she has a, she has an
interfaith background, and sothat has been a really great

(14:46):
cultural exchange between us andwe talk about the similarities
that we have all the timebetween Judaism, being raised in
Judaism and being raised inIslam and the intersections
there, and that's so interestingto me.

Micah Riot (15:01):
Yeah, fuck, yeah, I mean the conversation.
Right, my conversations with myclients are like one of the
best parts of the job for sure,like sharing your different
backgrounds and like yourthoughts on things like book
recs, like anything.
It's for sure one of the betterparts.
Cool, I love that.
And I love that you're shoutingthem out right now as we talk,

(15:21):
because I'm going to put all thelinks you know in the show
notes and make sure people knowwho you're mentioning.
I think it's great, like I'msure all you artists really
appreciate, you know, havingtheir name out there one more
time, even if, like you know,it's a small podcast it's your
livelihood, so I like I like toput it in wherever I can have
you noticed that it's been umlike, it seems, from the

(15:43):
perspective of tattooists?
people are talking about howmuch less busy they are than
they have been like, than theyare used to being.
You know people who neveropened their books, opening
their books, people who werebooked out a year now booked out
a month, like that type ofthing.
Have you noticed that, as aclient, that you're getting
easier entry into people's books?

Ali (16:03):
Not at all.
Actually, I don't know if it'sjust like my.
The people I book with are justlike really booked up and
really popular, but I think like, for example, like Kat has a
really she does specificallylike a trauma centered approach,
and so I think that peoplelooking for for that like are
really gonna like flop to her,since she's super open about

(16:27):
that, and then, like the othertwo work for really really
popular shops, and so I thinkthat they're just they're like
booked out to forever.
Um, I'm like always bookinglike two months down the line
with them to get a weekend day,um, and so I but I have noticed
a lot of discourse around likethe being, like not booking as

(16:49):
often um issue, and it seemslike it's kind of a mixed bag.
It's also that boston is likeit's it's a city environment too
, so like a lot of walk-ins toplaces and things like that.

Micah Riot (17:01):
There's still a walk-in culture, huh, because
there's not much of one hereanymore it depends.

Ali (17:05):
So there's, um, there's certain studios that are very
clear that they're private andthey don't do walk-ins.
Some will have like a walk-inday, um, like my artist alia,
like the third wednesday ofevery month is a walk-in day, um
, and so it depends.

(17:25):
But then there are shops likeum north street uh tattoo shop
in uh salem, which is just likean hour out from me.
Um, they do walk-ins every dayand flash off the wall type
thing.
They're like more of a trad shopand so yeah, so it's kind of a
mixed bag okay, interesting haveyou?

Micah Riot (17:47):
I feel like you're, you'd be like a really good um
tattoo artist, manager orsomething you're like you would
like represent.
Well, what do you like?
What do you do for your job?

Ali (17:57):
I'm a comms director, okay, yeah, so I do a lot of um, I
run a comms department for a uh,civic engagement non-profit um,
do a lot of I run a commsdepartment for a civic
engagement nonprofit and so alot of progressive advocacy and,
yeah, so social media and justtalking to people is like one of
my favorite things to haveengaged dialogue with people,

(18:25):
people, um, and tattooing isjust something like it's like
one of my like niche littleneuro divergent things that I
like am very interested in andso, like I do like a lot of
research on it and like so thatI can understand like language
and the culture and like theconversations going on, because
I think, as a client, like Iwant to be connected into like
the some of the not all theconversation, but some of them
that the artists are having,because it as clients, like we

(18:49):
have bias and that should beaddressed.
Um, and they're the tattooingindustry is growing and I think
like it's important for us torecognize those things please
say more about having bias as aclient.
I think like there's a lot of.
So I mean, just on the basiclevel of like what we're getting

(19:09):
tattooed, I think that there'smore attention to.
Are we appropriating othercultures Are how?
Where did this art come from?
And if you grabbed it offPinterest, is that artist okay
with you using this?
Is that the work of anothertattoo artist that you could
book with in the future?
Is your artist changing theartwork rather than just tracing

(19:33):
it onto a piece of paper?
Things like that.
There's much more awareness tothat, both on from my perception
, both on the artist side andthe client side.
And then there's thinking aboutshop values.
Are you going to go to a shopand expect to be treated badly?

(19:53):
I think that there's thisperception for a long time that,
like, because tattooinginvolves pain, tattooing also
should involve emotional pain,and I think that there's a shift
, um, both on the clientadvocacy side and on artist
empathy, to like address thatand make sure that clients feel
safe.
Um, and then there's also likethere's a bias, I think, from

(20:18):
watching things like Ink Master,um, and like the separation
from like client and personhoodand making sure that we're not
like separating ourselves out inthe tattooing process, and also
recognizing that, like weshould be pushing for artists to
be more inclusive of those withmelanated skin, we should be

(20:41):
going to shops that support that, and things like that.
I think, like being connectedto the conversations that tattoo
artists are having has led meto look into those things a
little bit more and think aboutwhere am I going to?
Are the shops that I'm going tohiring marginalized people, or
is this all white women andwhite men?
What is the ratio of men towomen at this shop?

(21:04):
Do the women seem like they areappreciated and treated well?
Things like that.

Micah Riot (21:10):
That's amazing to hear a client say that you know
and and I mean like I think youknow I try not to like bring
isms into things likeconversations, you know, but
like I think age can have a lotto do with it, because your
generation is having the cultureof you growing up and is so
different from the culture thatI was in my twenties and

(21:32):
especially around tattoo shops.
I mean in general, right, likesocial media has created
environment where peopleunderstand gender more, they
understand sexuality more, theyunderstand the way that things
can be fluid or that they can beboth, and like there could be
such solitude and complexity.
And like people's identitiesand people's worlds
Neurodivergence has become likemuch more of a thing we talk

(21:53):
about, right?
So like you're growing up,you're being a young adult in
like a really differentenvironment, but it's just like
wonderful to hear you say that,because I think you know, know I
would fight for that.
Like tattooing through my 20s,asking clients to think about
things, was impossible.
Like people were like what thefuck?
I'm just gonna go to somebodyelse, like why are you talking

(22:13):
to me about this?

Ali (22:14):
yeah.
I think we live in an age ofinformation.
Like information is readilyavailable, and I think that to
not take advantage of thatinformation is to miss out on so
many opportunities for nuanceand growth.

Micah Riot (22:29):
And to be kind right , To be a good citizen of the
world.

Ali (22:32):
Exactly.

Micah Riot (22:33):
Yeah, yeah.
But I mean that's, you know,somebody was wanting something
appropriative and I said, well,let's think about this.
Like how can we make it?
You know the right thing foryou, because you don't come from
this culture.
Like, personally, I just belike I'm not, I don't care, I
want this thing, I'm gonna go tosomebody else and get it anyway
.
Yeah, right.
Or when people there was apiece um, there was no virality

(22:54):
back then, but I'd post photosof my tattoos sometimes and a
couple pieces would go prettywidely I guess viral or whatever
and I would get emails frompeople being like I, I'm going
to copy this tattoo.
What does it say?
You know, it was in differentlanguage and I'd be like you
can't copy this tattoo and likethey would just be like I'm
going to do whatever I want.
Like I'm like what can you do?
Right?

(23:15):
So there was no like way todefend that my own integrity in
it.
In that way, people will dowhat they do.

Ali (23:23):
So the more people you know are aware, the more I think we
appreciate it yeah, and thatissue like with people copying
artwork is like part of thereason I like so heavily credit
my tattoo artist, like beingsomeone who's out there on
social media like people see mytattoos and I have a Pinterest
board for my tattoos and Iconstantly like people are gonna

(23:43):
do what they want to do and Ican the Pinterest board for my
tattoos and I constantly likepeople are going to do what they
want to do and I can't controlthem but to the best of my
ability I'm going to credit allof my artists.
I'm going to ask people not tocopy tattoos directly.
To like work with an artistcustom.
If you have an idea fromconcept to drawing, like you
should be working with an artistfor something original so how
do you envision your body ofwork growing like what are your

(24:06):
when you are 80?

Micah Riot (24:09):
what do you envision you look like tattoo wise?

Ali (24:12):
I think, well, this is, this is really um optimistic, I
would say everything but um neckand face, like that's kind of,
with like some gaps obviously,but like most, why not?
Why no neck, just be.
Well, let's see if the worldchanges, because the world is

(24:33):
constantly changing.
I mean, like five years ago, Iprobably couldn't have had a
hand tattoo and worked inpolitics, but I worry
professionally, like, aboutgetting a neck tattoo and
professional perception.
Um, I'm still at a point where,besides for my hand tattoo, I
can, like cover things at work.
My workplace currently is veryaccepting of my tattoos, um, but

(24:55):
I worry about getting jobs inthe future.

Micah Riot (24:58):
Um, but let's say you're 65 and you've retired,
right, and you still have.
You still have a decade orwhatever of getting tattooed.
There does come a point when aperson's skin gets too old to be
tattooed.
Well, it kind of starts to kindof break apart as you try to
tattoo it.
So it's a sad day for folksbecause a lot of times people
you know get to an age andthey're like I want to start

(25:20):
getting tattooed, I want lots oftattoos, and you're're like you
have a couple of years, likelet's go, like time is ticking,
but say you know, say this isnot an issue.

Ali (25:28):
Oh yeah, neck done.
Uh, side of the head definitelydone.
Uh, yeah, I w I would prettymuch.
I think like my face is likethe one thing I'd like to leave.
I just I like, I like how myface looks and so I feel like a
lot of my tattooing is likebodily affirmation and like
making myself feel like more athome in my skin.

(25:49):
Where I feel like my face Ifeel at home in.
But like other things, I thinklike I, we, I can like put
artwork on my skin and make itlook beautiful.

Micah Riot (25:59):
So say more about that, Like what, um, how do you
feel like your self image haschanged as you spend the last?
What has it been seven yearsgetting tattooed?

Ali (26:10):
I think like I'm someone I've struggled with body
dysmorphia, but I don't gettattooed to like cover up the
things that I'm insecure about.
I just think like there arethese like areas of my skin that
just feel like, oh, that's notexactly me, like that doesn't
feel like me yet, and then I putsomething on it and it just

(26:31):
feels like I've like made thisinto a template for like
beautifulness.
Like, for example, I have mybutt tattooed and I actually
originally got a tattoo.
That was my second tattoo and Icovered it up because I got it
done and it was a fine tattoo,like there was nothing wrong
with it.

(26:51):
But I got it done thinking thatthat would like affirm that
part of my body, and then, onceI saw it, I was like I don't
feel affirmed by this and I feellike there's better things that
can be done with this space.
And so now I have big peoniescovering both butt cheeks and
that to me, like I never feltthis need to like look at my

(27:13):
butt before, but now I'm likelooking at my butt all the time.
I'm like this is so beautiful,and so that's kind of what I'm
doing, like it's not to cover upsomething, but it's to make my
body something that I reallylike, want to look at and like.
I mean.
Bodily acceptance is like anongoing journey, I think for

(27:34):
pretty much everyone, but thistakes me one step closer closer.

Micah Riot (27:46):
Yeah, I feel like butt tattoos are really tricky,
so I'm glad you ended up withsomething you really like.
What do you mind if I ask likewhat did you?
What was the original idea thatyou got covered up?

Ali (27:51):
Yeah.
So I okay.
When you get tattooed whenyou're 20, you just have like
weird.
So it was right after I got theHebrew tattoo on my finger,
which was so meaningful, after Igot the Hebrew tattoo on my
finger, which was so meaningful,and then my friend had gotten a
butt tattoo and I was like thatlooks so good, I want a butt
tattoo too.
And I spent about five minuteslooking something up and I got

(28:14):
the like the circle and the twomoons over the butt, like kind
of in the lower back kind oflike low on the butt cheek.
Like it was small, like itwasn't that big, like for me it
was big at the time, but it wasactually pretty.
It was like palm size, I wouldsay, with like the Wiccan symbol

(28:35):
for goddess, and my reasoningat the time, like going back to
20 year old self, was that's hot.
And right after I got it, I waslike this is just, I mean, it's
like nice, it was well done,but it just didn't make me feel
more like me and so, yeah, nowI'm like my butt is fully

(28:58):
tattooed.
I went to an artist thatspecializes in tricky places.
This is on Instagram Aunt Grace.
They're based in Philadelphia,but they were actually traveling
to guest at Boston TattooCompany and I had seen that they
specialize in cover ups and intricky spots.

(29:19):
So like knee, ditches, elbows,hands and butts and I book with
them and it was a wonderful,wonderful experience.
I'm actually getting theshading finished on that next
month.

Micah Riot (29:36):
What was the sensation like with the butt
tattoo?
Because I feel like it's such amixed bag, like it can be, like
I have a little bit on my buttand it.
I remember getting it done.
I loved it.
I was like the sensation isfantastic, I love it.
It's like a massage.
But I wasn't tattooed people'sbutts and heard people talk
about their butts being tattooedas like horrible.
So what was your experience?

Ali (29:56):
so the first one I actually because I didn't have much
metric for like comparison and Ihad gotten the finger one done
and that was so quick and likenot painful that I thought it
was so painful when I got itdone the first time that I was
really nervous.
The second time because I'mgetting something much larger,
um, much more shading and justreally like long lines, things

(30:18):
like that.
Um and I it was like five outof ten.
It was really not that bad interms of pain and there were
some lines like what you said.
They were like satisfying whenyou could feel them all those
like that doesn't feel bad, likeat all like that's mildly
orgasmic.

Micah Riot (30:34):
I kind of really like it.

Ali (30:36):
It's like a difference, it's like a sensation you don't
feel in your daily life.
Um, but yeah, by like hour fiveI was a little done with it,
but you're, you're tough.

Micah Riot (30:47):
Five hours, that's tough yeah you're tough, I've
sat okay, you're like I lovethat.
The um har har.
You've sat right because youwere laying, probably in your
belly oh yeah but just but thatis the term you you're sitting
for a tattoo.
It's just funny when it's onyour butt, that's you're not
sitting, just I'm contorting fora tattoo contorting for a

(31:08):
tattoo.
Yeah right, like being in aweird position.
I try to get my clients asrelaxed as I can.

Ali (31:12):
They're usually lying down yeah, I usually like the pillow
between my legs when I get thehip stuff done and my the leg
that's not being tattooed is theone twitching always um, no
matter what I do, I'm sure yousit perfectly well for your
artists.

Micah Riot (31:28):
That's what they tell me.
Yeah, they I I'm sure they'renot lying, because we don't just
say that.
Like, we will say that if it'strue, you know, and if someone
isn't sitting well, we don't sayanything.
So yeah, um, did you end up?
Did you marry a Jewish person?

Ali (31:46):
Yes, so we're both patrilineal Jews.
Um, he was not tattooed when wemet I actually, when I met him,
I wasn't tattooed either.
Um, we met in 2016.
Um and I had piercings at thattime, but, um, no tattoos.
He had no tattoos.
He came from a background wherehis dad actually, like, hated

(32:07):
tattoos and was like, not undermy roof, and so then I started
getting tattooed.
He was like I want to gettattooed also, but he was still
like living with his dad for abit, tattooed also, but he was
still like living with his dadfor a bit.
Um, but when he moved outfinally, um, he got his first

(32:31):
tattoo was, um, a high behindhis ear.
Um, cause.
I told him to try something likeeasy to just like pain
tolerance.
He is a bigger baby than me insome ways, but a lot tougher
than me and others.
Like he has his ditchestattooed and I will.
I can't even imagine you'regonna be fine.

Micah Riot (32:45):
I promise you'll be fine the ditches scare me.

Ali (32:48):
I mean I have this elbow hinge.
That really hurt.

Micah Riot (32:50):
But it's, it's not, it's fine.
I I'm interacting with train ofthought, but I think that, um,
what it sounds to me like isyou're probably, you probably
sit really well, you have reallyhigh pain tolerance, and then,
once in a while, you'll find atattoo artist who's heavy-handed
, and then you really feel thedifference.
Oh yeah, I'm gonna assume thatyour first butt tattoo was done

(33:11):
heavy-handed and then your nextsessions were lighter-handed,
and so that's why you were like,oh, I can do five hours of this
, even though the first sessionwas so painful, yeah, and
because you're so young, likeyour skin regenerates, your body
regenerates really fast, yeah,so you're probably very like
healthy, you probably sleep andlike don't drink too much, and
so, like, you'll have goodtolerance, like you can do your

(33:32):
ditches don't, don't even worryabout it.

Ali (33:34):
I know I will get them done .
It's just about like I'm gonnado the elbows first, um.
But yeah, my husband is.
We're completely opposite interms of tattooing styles.
I'm like all black work, allblack and gray, and he is color
like in your face, new trad, andso it's really interesting.
But yeah, he's also a pastorallineal Jew.

(33:56):
He was also raised in reformJudaism and so, yeah, we've been
together for a very long time.
We got married last year.

Micah Riot (34:06):
And so how did his family, how is his family with
all of?
Do they think you influencedhim?

Ali (34:11):
Absolutely.

Micah Riot (34:12):
Yeah.

Ali (34:13):
If they listen to this they will say no, no, we knew he
wanted to do it, but I thinkthey didn't actually think he'd
go through with it.
But I think, like I kind ofkind of like normalized it a
little bit and then when hestarted getting it done at first
, his dad was like thank you forletting me know when you get a
tattoo done.
I hate it, but thank you.
That was kind of like thank youfor notifying me, so I don't

(34:37):
pass out.

Micah Riot (34:38):
Like preparing him.

Ali (34:40):
But at this point, like my husband is absolutely covered,
and so his, his dad's prettymuch used to it and just doesn't
comment on it.
His sister is also also hastattoos, not quite as heavily,
but I think their their dad is avery lovely, understanding
person, and so I think he haslike come around to the idea he

(35:02):
will never get tattoos himself,though yeah, that generation
probably won't Nice.

Micah Riot (35:09):
So tell me about this, your project.
So you started this page.
Jews with Tattoos on Instagramhow many?
How long ago?
It seems like maybe not thatlong.

Ali (35:19):
Not that long September of 2023.
Not that long.

Micah Riot (35:22):
Not that long September of 2023.

Ali (35:23):
Okay.
So what prompted it is actuallysomething that it seems
unrelated.
My cousin died and I was reallystruggling with that.
My mental health was really,really bad and I post on my main

(35:45):
platform that Jewish Feminist alot my face and a lot of like
me talking up a camera videosand I had zero emotional energy
for that.
But I also could not sit and donothing and like wallow, and so
I just thought about, like whathave I been wanting to do?
What brings me joy?
And I immediately came to likeI've been wanting to build
community around Jewish peoplewith tattoos.

(36:07):
I love tattooing.
Tattooing makes me happy, solet's do this thing that makes
me happy.
I thought like two people wouldcare.
I really thought it was justgoing to be a platform for me to
post like me getting tattooed,and then, like maybe two people
would be like this is cool,allie, um.
But I made it and like rightaway, like 150 people followed

(36:31):
and I was like what is going on?
Um, and so I figured, okay,more people are interested in
this, more people want to buildcommunity.
Let me sorry, my dogs arebarking, that's okay.
Okay, I think they're done.
Um, I was like more people areinterested, let me, um, make a

(36:52):
form where people can submittheir tattoo story, um, because
I want to share mine, like, letme give a form for people to
share theirs.
And so then they, the people,started sharing and that was
really beautiful to see.
And then I started gettingfollowed by Jewish tattoo
artists and I I'm like I'mashamed to say it never occurred

(37:15):
to me that there was like ahuge Jewish tattoo artist
community.
I figured there there areJewish tattoo artists, but I
didn't think that this was likea large community of people.
But once I started gettingfollowed, and then I was
following back and then I waslike discovering new people.
I was like this is a bigcommunity that I didn't know
existed.

(37:35):
And right away I started tothink about ways that I could
honor that, because in some wayslike yes, I'm someone who gets
tattoos.
Ways that I could honor thatbecause in some ways, like yes,
I'm someone who gets tattoos, um, and I understand tattooing,
I'm also not an artist and thisis not my livelihood.
And so I wanted to think ofways to kind of honor you guys
and to honor your work.
And so I started followingevery, every Jewish tattoo

(37:57):
artist and just starting toshare their work.
Um, and I found that people werelike, oh my God, I didn't know
there was a Jewish tattoo artistin my city.
I didn't know like anyone wasdoing Jewish tattoos.
This is crazy.
And as the platform like grewand grew, I started getting a
lot of DMs asking for tattooartist recommendations and I

(38:22):
couldn't like readily pullpeople out of the top of my head
.
And so I was like, but I haveenough people asking me for this
that there needs to be aresource.
And so that's how the tattooartist database was born, and
through that I realized thecommunity is even larger than I
thought it was when I reallylike sat down and like started

(38:45):
like mapping out like who it was, where.
Um, it went from me thinkinglike there were maybe 50 people
plus folks in Israel, like 50diaspora artists, to there being
200 diaspora artists.
Um, and I really it was reallybeautiful to like follow these
people and like learn abouttheir work, and so now this has

(39:07):
just become like a really greatproject where people can share
their tattoo stories, they canbe connected with jewish artists
so that they can find affinitythere and maybe get jewish
tattoos from someone that theyfeel understands them a little
bit more in the culturalsignificance or understands the
context of diaspora,antisemitism, or someone who's

(39:28):
even just like had experiencetattooing Hebrew calligraphy.
People are able to be connectedin that way and I think it's
really beautiful and I reallywant the community to expand
even more than it has and reachmore people, and I want to find
more Jewish tattoo artists.
I am constantly like lookingthrough hashtags to try to find

(39:51):
new people, but to a certainextent, I rely on word of mouth
to get out this, the account,and to get out the fact that
there is a database that peoplecan be added to.
I've recently expanded ontoReddit and created a subreddit
for folks to share stories, askfor advice a little bit more

(40:12):
like a one-on-one context, andso I'm always looking for ways
to expand the project.

Micah Riot (40:18):
That's so beautiful.
First of all, I'm sorry aboutthe loss of your cousin.
Thank you, and it's such abeautiful thing for you to, you
know, go and make something likekind of in our honor, in the,
in their honor.
That, you know, is now servingcommunity and you're creating
community, connecting peoplethrough it.
Like it's kind of one of mygreat excitements and passions

(40:38):
in life is to like, yeah, createcommunity and like connect
people with people.
Like if I wasn't tattooing, I'dprobably be a matchmaker
because I just love like theidea of connecting people.
You know, I'd be like a village, yenta, I'd move to a small
village and be like theirnon-binary witch, like
matchmaker you gotta watchJewish match, have you?

Ali (40:58):
have you watched Jewish?

Micah Riot (40:58):
oh, my god, it's so good.
It's so good.
I was so happy that it was sogood because of expecting the
matchmaker not to be that great,but she was fucking awesome oh
yeah, I loved her, I loved heryeah I would.
Um, she was like I was likeyou're a celebrity to me now,
like just please make more.
You know more of the show.
I love that.
She was like, oh, young woman,you want a guy with nice

(41:20):
eyebrows, okay, but then sheactually didn't get her.
The guys with nice eyebrows, itwas like no matter how
ridiculous the request, like theone guy who was like I want a
blonde, blue eyed Jewish womanwho speaks Hebrew.
She was like well, that'snearly impossible.
But then she didn't.
Like she went and found him.
I think a couple of women whofit that description, it's

(41:41):
ridiculous.
Bet him like I think, a couplewomen who fit that description.
Yeah, ridiculous, bet I got it.
Yeah, she's like.
She's like, yeah, that's that'sthe challenge, but I'm up for
the challenge.
Like she was awesome.
Yeah, loved her.
I was gonna say do you know um?
Do you know the guy behindhebrew tattoos?

Ali (41:56):
uh, gabriel I don't know him personally, but I definitely
follow his work and like seeeverything that he's doing there
, which which is really reallybeautiful.

Micah Riot (42:05):
So he doesn't tattoo , he only he's not a tattoo
artist.
He I actually chatted with himone time.
So what he does and his teamdoes is he creates the image and
then he suggests a tattooartist to a person in their area
who will, who he knows can dothat kind of work.
Yeah, and so he has a databaseof I'm assuming, mostly jewish,

(42:27):
but at least people who, come,you know, competent at doing
that type of detailedcalligraphy work.
Yeah, so he creates the image,we tattoo it.
And so after like the third time, somebody approached me with a
piece of art from him.
Um, I was like, let me connectwith this guy.
Like I just find it a littleodd to be like sent clientele
this way.
Also, I didn't ask for it, alsoI don't necessarily wanna do

(42:49):
this kind of work, but like Iwill if people ask.
But also I wanna be supercareful about what I take on.
It's like tattooing someoneelse's art is not my favorite,
like it's fine, but I'd ratherdo my own art, right, so, anyway
, so I wanted to connect withhim.
So we chatted and he was like,yeah, I used to train.
I took trainers as a tattooartist a long time ago.

(43:10):
Wasn't very good at it.
So he dropped that part and nowI just do designing and I was
like, okay, interesting story, Itotally want to get him on the
pod and like chat with him moreabout it.
Yeah, but the point for you isthat he probably whoever he has
like people working for him, soI would email I have his email
address, if you don't and justask for their database.

(43:31):
Oh yeah, I think you'llprobably find some new people
there.

Ali (43:35):
Yeah, for sure, I usually go through and see who he has
tagged or like in his post.

Micah Riot (43:41):
But like a whole database that I can kind of like
with mine would be great yeah,it's an assumption, but I'm, as
you know, I like I assume it's agood assumption to make about
you know, the way that he umpoints people to other artists
and in different cities.
Yeah, um, but yeah.
So how fast have you seen thatwas?

(44:02):
Is the growth happening inspurts or consistently?

Ali (44:06):
It's spurts, but when it's really there it's really growing
, and it's a little shocking inthe moment, but in a good way.
When I launched the database, Igrew close to 700 people in two
days.
So it's things like that likeclose to 700 people in like two
days.
So it's things like that, likethe growth of the database.

(44:27):
Launching the subreddit, likethings like that, will usually
draw, draw growth.
But I yeah, I think like backin probably like December of
last year, I think I had like300 followers and then now I
think I'm close to 3000.

Micah Riot (44:45):
So awesome.

Ali (44:47):
Yeah, it's been really, really great to see it grow.
I just want, like, more peopleto know that it exists.
I'm sure there are people thatcould benefit from the resources
and just don't know thatthey're out there.

Micah Riot (44:58):
For sure.
Have you had any like backlash,undeserved backlash, just for
it having the name Jews in thetitle in the last like however
many nine months, however longit's been since the war in Gaza?

Ali (45:15):
It's so funny.
So I have.
I got really weird backlash.
I didn't understand at firstbecause it was coming from.
It was coming from non-Jews onReddit saying that the username
was inappropriate and I was like, wait, I don't understand what
about this username isinappropriate.
And then there were other Jewsalso on that thread who were

(45:37):
like what are you talking about?
What is inappropriate?
And they thought it was aHolocaust delusion,
inappropriate, and they thoughtit was a holocaust delusion.
And I was like, of course, likeonly like a non-jewish mind
would go there and like, think,like immediately go to trauma.
Um, like my mind never wentthere because I'm like number
one, I'm jewish, so like anyonecoming to the account can feel

(45:59):
like it's a safe space forjewish people and like the
content of the account hasabsolutely nothing to do with
the holocaust.
But I some backlash on that.
That was really weird andsurprising and I get accusations
all the time of being both aZionist and an anti Zionist,
both used negatively.
I really tried to make theaccount.

(46:20):
I obviously like I'm a person,I'm a human with beliefs and
bias, and but I recognize thatthere's swaths of the Jewish
tattoo community that havediffering beliefs beliefs and so
I try to really keep my biasout of this as much as possible
obviously not completelypossible, but as much as I'm

(46:43):
able to like.
I've been told to removecertain Jews from my tattoo
database and I have refused.

Micah Riot (46:52):
I've got Because of their stance on Israel.

Ali (46:56):
Yeah, it's been from, and it's not like one group of
people doing it 's both, and Irefuse to do that.
I will.
I will highlight art, um, andthat's what I do I'm.
They are Jewish.
It does not remove their Jewishidentity that they have other
beliefs, um, and I just reallystick to my guns on that.

(47:17):
I get told that the tattoos Ishare are explicitly
anti-Zionist or explicitlyZionist, and I actually try to
not post tattoos that go ineither direction really strongly
, and so it surprises me when Iget that criticism.
It doesn't happen often, butwhen it happens they're really

(47:37):
mad.

Micah Riot (47:39):
Yeah, I mean it's like you know that it's their
thing and not yours, when it'sfrom both sides equally strongly
Like where you're, like I'mjust trying to do a thing that
has nothing to do with thisthing, my personal beliefs aside
, and people are like you'redoing the thing from both sides,
Like it's clearly not somethingyou're doing.

Ali (47:59):
Yeah, that's what I kind of lean in on.
I'm like, okay, so I'm gettingstrong, strong criticism that I
am like giving preference to theopposite group for both sides.
So I'm like, okay, I must bedoing something right here, like
I must be like treading like areally neutral line.

Micah Riot (48:15):
Well, have you so like, do you feel fine, like
with, with your you know not.
What's the question?
How do I ask it?
I think you know, when thingsstarted, when attacks on Gaza
started and things got more andmore intense, I was having
conversations with differentpeople, some of them very

(48:40):
intense and unpleasant and, likeI definitely you know, a couple
, like a couple of friends, leftmy life because of how I was
processing, like, my traumaaround what happened on October
7th and then subsequent traumathat happens to the you know,
the people of Gaza, and so itwas really hard to like hold a.

(49:03):
I mean, I've never identifiedvery strongly as Jewish, like in
public, because I find itconfusing to talk about it with
people who are not, because,yeah, and even people who are,
because they'll go oh, do youpractice?
You know?
Which synagogue do you go to?
And I'm like it's an ethnicityfor me, like it's just like my
blood, like it's not what I do,it's who I am, because I'm an
immigrant from Russia and that'show I grew up, you know.

(49:25):
But it's like hard to explainhow Jewish I am to people, yeah,
in what way I'm Jewish, and soI just don't really go there
because I don't have thataffinity with American Jews and
I also don't want to explain itto everybody.
Yeah, yeah, you know.
And so for a while there I waslike I don't want, I don't, I
just want to separate myselffrom anything like Jewish
related.

(49:45):
That's why, you know, when youfirst approached me, I said no,
not now, cause I just was like Idon't want to be in the public
eye as a Jew right now, likethat just feels very vulnerable
and scary and I have this tinylittle business that you know.
If I don't have it like, whatam I going to do?
I have nothing else.
Yeah, you know, if peopleboycott my business because I'm
out as in public, as a Jewishperson, so have you felt?

(50:07):
I mean, it's not yourlivelihood, but have you felt
anything like that in the last?
You know however long?
It's been nine months, I think.

Ali (50:14):
Being Jewish online is something I really started doing
in 2020 and it has been wildand it's so vulnerable, and so I
100% understand where you comefrom with that, Like I, so I'm
also a secular Jew.
Like I don't identifyreligiously with Judaism beyond

(50:35):
doing ritual to affirm culturalsignificance and I find that
people misunderstand that allthe time and it's something I
have to explain.
But then, from the non-Jewishpoint of view, it's so difficult
to have conversations aboutJewishness when you know that
there are non-Jewish eyes on you, because a lot of these

(50:58):
conversations are meant to beintra-community they're not
meant for everyone to hear, andso I'm really, really careful
with what I put out publiclyonline.
I'm on TikTok as that Jewishfeminist and I talk about
anti-Semitism and the history ofJudaism because one of my
degrees is in Jewish studies andI the amount of anti-Semitism I

(51:20):
have received online isabsolutely wild and it's been.
The rhetoric has been reallyconsistent, but since October
7th, I never had comment filterson TikTok.
Even when I was gettinghorrible stuff, it was like
enough that I could manage itand like moderate it on my own.
I put on comment filters forthe first time at the beginning

(51:43):
of this year.
I put on comment filters for thefirst time at the beginning of
this year, because I was gettinglike 200 comments an hour and
they were like the same thingover and over and ranging from
like the same thing beingrepeated, from far right
rhetoric or like people beingreally obtuse and

(52:03):
misunderstanding, like takingthe meaning of my video and
applying it to Israel, when myvideos had literally nothing to
do with Israel and I yeah, I hadto put on comment filters and
so and I sometimes do not feel100% safe I was doxxed by a Nazi
back in 2021.
And I had to go to the police.

(52:28):
Like it was a whole thing I hadin.
That same Nazi was likeliterally obsessed with me and
was posting about me all thetime, and so I felt extremely
unsafe during that time.
I would say like I feel rightnow my public presence, since my
cousin passed, has been alittle bit less, because I've

(52:48):
just had to step back fromputting my face on things quite
as often.
But even not posting mycomments like at least 100 a day
that I have to even not posting.
So, yeah, it's really hard to bea Jew on the internet, um, but
I found that Jews with tattoosat least for the time being,
even with the criticisms I'vegotten is like my safest space

(53:13):
at the moment.
Um, I do get the occasionalmessage, uh, from an anti-Semite
, but in general, it's just thisbeautiful community where Jews
will put aside other differencesthat they have and like focus
on this one thing that they love, and I think that a lot of the
time in larger dialogue buildingthat's part of what we have to

(53:36):
do is like look at thecommonalities we have and the
things that we care about andthen find a way to push through
and have dialogue when wedisagree.
Through that and I find thatdisagreement is a really
important Jewish value to me andunderstanding that we have
diversity of opinion and that isthe basis of our culture and

(53:58):
religion we often forget that,but in those moments where we
disagree, like taking a breathand saying like I need to hear
this person, especially becausewe disagree um, yeah, it's a
wild experience online it soundswild um.
Tiktok is not a nice place no,not at all, but it's like the

(54:20):
one platform like before TikTok,before um Instagram had reels.
It's like the one place I couldlike talk to people and that's
what resonated with people aboutme.
It's not me taking photos ofmyself, it's like me like
speaking to people, and so itbecame my default platform.

Micah Riot (54:37):
Unfortunately, yeah, I mean, you know I had um some
luck with, but almost every timeI've had a video go wider than
like 200 views, I get a lot ofnegative comments.
People just want to tear downwhatever it is you're saying.
You know, like the last video Iposted, I had tattooed a client
who is half black and her skinis like visibly black.

(54:59):
She's not light skinned, butsometimes when you take video
photo of darker skin it lookslighter because of like the way
that like it adjusts, you know,especially with the tattoo on
the skin is bright, beautifultattoo and I, when I tagged it
on TikTok, I said you know, I'venever seen like these bright
colors settle on darker skinlike this.
And I tagged it as melanatedclient and people just fucking

(55:23):
jumped down my throat like thisperson is not melanated.
Like what the fuck are youtalking about?
Is is a melanated person in theroom with us?
Like that kind of bullshit, youknow.
And I got like yeah, within anhour I got like a hundred
comments, just people being likeyou're fucking stupid, like you
don't know what melanid means,and I was like I can't prove to
you that my client has melaninskin besides, like this video.

(55:45):
But I was just like I'm notresponding.
I deleted the video and likedeleted TikTok.
I need a break.
People are so mean.

Ali (55:53):
When they can hide their face.

Micah Riot (55:55):
Yeah.

Ali (55:56):
I've learned that people will say anything behind an
anonymous profile, like to thepoint where it's like shocking
to me, like I could neverimagine speaking to people the
way people speak to me onlineand so totally empathize with
that yeah, and you know whateverelse I posted.

Micah Riot (56:13):
that was like you're lying, you didn't.
You touched this up, it didn'theal.
Like like just whatever.
And uh, like, why would I lie?
Like I'm not a 12 year oldtrying to get cloud on the
internet, like I'm not using it?
You know, trying to get cloudon the internet Like I'm not
using it?
No, I don't know Like lyingabout your work, it's just yeah.
I was like this place is veryweird.

Ali (56:33):
Yeah.

Micah Riot (56:34):
Yeah, so, um, and sounds like you know you're
talking about some serious,important issues and I, you know
, sounds like you get a lot ofbacklash, but also, I'm assuming
, a lot of support as well.
Yes, which is great, which islike, really the point.

(56:54):
Yeah, for sure, it's beautiful.
What's what?
Do you see yourself as, like aninfluencer?
What do you?
How do you think of yourself asa person taking up space and
saying things that need to besaid online?

Ali (57:04):
think of yourself as a person taking up space and
saying things that need to besaid online.
It's so like I hate callingmyself an influencer, but that's
what most people would call me.

Micah Riot (57:11):
It's a tired word.
It's a tired word, but it'sokay, we can own it.

Ali (57:23):
Because I feel like it imbues a certain amount of like.
I think I'm like above otherpeople and I I am not like I am
just like a regular Joe, likewho just has ideas and is good
at talking about them.
That's like really all it is.
I think we all have ideas andlike I really try to empower a
lot of people to like put theirvoice online also as much as
they feel comfortable, because Ithink like we all have

(57:43):
something to say.
I usually, when pressed, willtell people I'm an influencer,
but I usually say like I createcontent online.

Micah Riot (57:53):
I'm an online activist.
Um, that's a better, probablybetter way to put it.

Ali (57:55):
yeah, yeah, like people, I, I actually it was crazy.
I went to um a reunion for aninternship that I did.
It was a and it was a Jewishfeminist internship and someone
recognized me and I have reallyintense social anxiety, and so
this person was like I know youand I was like but but, but but

(58:18):
I like did not know how to speakto this person.
Um, and I was, I had suchnervousnessness and it's like
people think if you're confidenttalking to your phone screen,
that you're really confident inperson, and I have a lot of
social anxiety.
So that was like that was awild experience.
But yeah, I mean like there's alot of parasocial relationships
out there that I have tocontend with.

(58:40):
When I was smaller, online, Icreated like a Facebook group
for just some people who wereinterested in talking to me one
on one.
That had to be done away with.
I was getting a lot ofinvitations to meet up with
people that I did not know and I, just because they feel like
they know me even if it has likethe best of intentions like
they feel like they know me, Idon't know them, but now that

(59:02):
I'm larger, I just like have tohave.
I'm by large, I have 30,000followers on TikTok.
I have to like keep pretty good.
I I try.
I have to like keep a littlebit of a level of like.
We have to have a separationbecause there is a power dynamic
there.
And, yeah, I just see myself assomeone who like speaks to

(59:23):
truth as much as possible andreally tries to advocate for my
community and for marginalizedpeople in general that's lovely.

Micah Riot (59:31):
I love it.
This is.
I mean, I love the term.
Uh, you said online activist.
That's the term used.
Yeah, yes, because you're right.
Like the word influencer, Ifeel like I do connect it with
capitalism and with somebody whowants to get a brand deal so
they can push a product and makemoney off of it.
That's clearly not what you'redoing.

Ali (59:50):
So I do appreciate the reframe of social activist or
online activist for likenonprofit organizations usually,
or like if a small Jewishjewelry brand reaches out to me
like I do things like that butmost of my stuff is like
completely unpaid and just liketalking in front of the camera.

Micah Riot (01:00:14):
Well, you've inspired me to redownload TikTok
.
I'll totally go look at yourvideos at some point soon.

Ali (01:00:19):
Don't have high expectations for me.

Micah Riot (01:00:22):
I have no expectations, I'm just curious,
you know, I'm just curious, youknow, I'm just curious about
what you're doing.

Ali (01:00:27):
There is a lovely jewish activist community on uh tiktok
um that I've.
That like we've all kind ofdiscovered each other.
We've done like some in-personmeetups.
It's like there's a lot of umlike really affirming rabbis,
like the kind of rabbi that youwish you had as a kid.
Um, and one in particular justso I could shout them out is

(01:00:49):
rabbi noyo um, who I'm friendswith in real life and is just
like a fantastic person and theyreally like they're
inspirational, love them cool.

Micah Riot (01:01:01):
I love that.
Yeah, I have a rabbi clienthere in the Bay, Rabbi Buttsheer
, and she's wonderful and yes,I'm like where were these people
when I was in Jewish school,like my entire childhood, and
dealing with like superhomophobic, transphobic male
rabbis?

Ali (01:01:20):
Oh yeah.

Micah Riot (01:01:21):
Yeah, we should have got rabbi shout out out.
Well, thank you for coming onthe podcast.
Um, we're about an hour in, sosounds like a good.
Seems like a good place to end.
Um, I will put links up to allof your.
You know different peopleyou've mentioned and like your
project on instagram andhopefully you get some more
followers from this as well andlike more community built from

(01:01:43):
this.
Um, yeah, do you have anythingelse you want to say before I
end the recording?

Ali (01:01:50):
no, I think we pretty much covered everything.
Thank you so so much for havingme.
Um, yeah, this is reallywonderful to chat like this nice
.

Micah Riot (01:01:58):
Oh, I do have one last question what's a small
thing that's been making youhappy lately?

Ali (01:02:03):
oh, that's a great.
That's a great question.
Oh my God, I'm like.
I'm the kind of person.
I'm like I should have thoughtabout this before, Um.

Micah Riot (01:02:10):
I mean, that's the point, though you know it's
something small, like somethingkind of insignificant.
You know, like I'm, like I haveI have morning breakfast and
it's like the best thing I'mlike this bagel with butter
makes me happy every morning.

Ali (01:02:27):
Like that type of thing that makes the um the movie long
legs and like, okay, around itI'm like I love horror and I
just saw it last week and then,like I'm just talking about it
with a lot of people, I justlove horror.
That like makes you think andso, yeah, I'll settle on the
movie long legs okay, I'm not abig horror person.

Micah Riot (01:02:44):
I I get scared easily.
But if you are a horror person,listener, long Legs.
And then you could, you know,hit up Jews with Tattoos on
Instagram and tell Allie whatyou think I don't know, maybe.
Yes, do it, sweet you.