In this intimate and profoundly moving episode, we dive deep with the extraordinary writer and director, Aitch Alberto — named by Vogue Poland as one of this generation's defining female filmmakers.
Born into a Cuban-American family with a fugitive father on the run, Aitch's childhood was characterized by constant flux, societal and cultural pressures, and a painful internal struggle with her assigned sex at birth. She shares the pain of trying to exist as a "fake, alternate version" of who she was and the messy and non-linear journey towards healing and self-acceptance, and the courage it took to finally walk through her truth.
Aitch's 'delusional confidence' propelled her to take extraordinary risks to bring the New York Times bestselling young adult novel, ARISTOTLE AND DANTE DISCOVER THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE, to life on the big screen -- including the successful pitch "tweet" to Lin-Manuel Miranda. She also shares and how the process of making the film led her to fully embrace her authentic truth. Despite her success, Aitch never shies away from the ugly, painful, and human parts of her journey, reflecting on the intersections of her personal experiences with wider issues of transgender representation and generational trauma.
This episode serves as a reminder that the path to authenticity is far from linear, and our biggest dreams often reside on the other side of our fears. It's a celebration of human resilience, an examination of our shared journey towards self-love, and a recognition of the sacred within us all, regardless of identity.
Aitch is one of Indiewire's 22 Rising Female Filmmakers to Watch in 2022 and Variety's 10 Directors to Watch in 2022. ARISTOTLE AND DANTE DISCOVER THE SECRETS OF THE UNIVERSE will be exclusively in theatres this summer!
Themes in this episode:
- Navigating Cultural Pressures and the Impact of Trauma
- The role of 'Delusional Confidence' in Success
- The Non-linear Path of Healing and Personal Growth
- Generational Trauma and the Journey to Forgiveness
- The Power and Necessity of Living Authentically
- Transitioning and the Journey to Self-Acceptance
- The Making of 'Aristotle and Dante Discover the Secrets of the Universe'
- Shifting Perspectives on Trans
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free monthly community call on the first Wednesday of every month, join here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa Bauknight (00:07):
.
(00:30):
.
This is the Inner Rebel podcast.
I was like I think she'sstarting, but it's.
Aitch Alberto (00:52):
It only matters when the camera is on.
Jessica (00:57):
I was saying that I feel a little bit emotional.
We met very, very briefly in aweird little context, but I was
really moved by the briefinteraction that we had.
I just kept thinking about youfor this and I feel so lucky
that you said yes and thatyou're here today.
Thank you for saying yes andshowing up.
(01:20):
I'm very excited to share withour listeners who is sitting
with us today.
We have Aitch Alberto, who is awriter director born and raised
in Miami.
She has written on the upcomingMac series Duster from JJ
Abrams and Latoya Morgan.
She has also served as a writeron Apple TV's anthology series
Little America from LeeEisenberg and Sean Heder.
(01:43):
H has adapted and directed theNew York Times bestselling young
adult novel Aristotle and DanteDiscover the Secrets of the
Universe by Benjamin Alire Saenzinto a film produced by
Lin-Manuel Miranda and EugenioDerbez.
The film premiered at theToronto International Film
(02:03):
Festival last year My Hometownand will be exclusively in
theaters this summer.
H was named one of Variety's 10Directors to Watch for 2022 and
IndieWire's 22 Rising FemaleFilmmakers and most recently,
vogue Polan named her one ofthis generation's defining
female voices in filmmaking.
(02:23):
We are so excited to have youwith us.
Thank you for being here.
H.
Aitch Alberto (02:29):
Thank you so much for having me.
This is so exciting.
I remember our very briefinteraction, but it stayed with
me as well, so when you reachedout, it was a no-brainer to say
yes.
So thank you for thinking of me, yes.
Jessica (02:42):
I know if you've listened at all to this podcast,
but we tend to dive deep rightoff the top And you have adapted
a book into a film.
So I went and looked a littlebit into that book And on the
first page of Aristotle andDante Discover the Secrets of
the Universe, it's written.
The problem with my life wasthat it was someone else's idea
(03:06):
And this ties so deeply into theentire theme of this podcast
And we usually ask all ourguests the question and you can
answer this in any way that youwant.
Who are you And how is thatdifferent from who you thought
or were told you were supposedto be?
Aitch Alberto (03:26):
Such a loaded question but it's also so easy.
I think one of my greatestachievements and what I'm most
proud of is who I am and knowingwho I am now and owning that
fully and as authentically aspossible.
That was not an easy journey.
I was born into a CubanAmerican household in Miami
(03:50):
which is very rooted in toxicmasculinity.
My dad, being of immigrantparents, was definitely someone
who lived in survival mode.
So he became a drug dealer andthen became a fugitive And we
lived on the run with him foreight years And through that
time I always I was assignedmale at birth but always knew
(04:13):
that didn't align with who I wasin the world and who I felt
inside.
But the world was telling me Iwas wrong for feeling that way.
So you start to believe thatand then you add, like these
cultural elements to it, thatyou're just like oh, there
really is something wrong withme And you try to hold on to
this version that other peoplewant you to be until you realize
(04:36):
you can't die that way and youhave to, like, walk through that
truth no matter what you lose.
So that to answer that questionthat's exactly who I am today
was getting to a moment, reallylate in life, where I couldn't
look at myself in the mirrorwithout at least giving myself a
chance.
Melissa Bauknight (04:57):
And I did.
I love that.
You said one of my greatestachievements is knowing who I am
, and it's so beautiful becausewhen we read your bio, you're
obviously doing incrediblethings from a more traditional
success standpoint But I lovethat that was your reflection is
my greatest achievement isactually me and knowing me.
Aitch Alberto (05:14):
Well, none of that would have been possible at
all without knowing who I wasand owning that truth, and it
took me like a long time to havethat success on paper, always
knowing that I had some sort oftalent and that my voice was
worth being heard.
But I would always circle adrain of success and things
wouldn't manifest.
I started seeing color when Ijust owned my identity, and then
(05:36):
everything started to come in,my career started to take off, i
said yes to myself And then theworld was saying yes to me.
And so it's just like it'sreally trippy to kind of think
of it that way, because you'rejust like I could fake it, i
could be this thing thateverybody wants me to be, and
then you realize you can't,because it's just diminishing
who you really are.
Melissa Bauknight (05:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Jessica (05:59):
Well, I feel like we need to unpack every layer of
what you just said.
But let's go back to what yousaid about your family.
You said that your father wasin the drug trade and he was a
fugitive for a long time, and soyou were on the road for eight
years as a kid.
So what was that like, and howdid having that kind of
experience as a child shape yourworld view today?
Aitch Alberto (06:25):
It was really intense, right, But that's only
in hindsight and reflecting backon it.
In the moment It feltcompletely normal.
I didn't know any different.
I was like everybody's familywas like on the run and going to
like vacation spots and likesort of like hiding out.
You just don't know.
You knew something was off,but… I credit my mother and my
(06:49):
grandmother with trying to rootit in love as much as possible
and be a constant throughout thechaos.
That was my childhood.
But it was only as an adultwhere I was like oh wait, how is
this living in my body, whereI'm hyper-vigilant,
hyper-paranoid, I don't trustpeople, I'm resistant to get
close.
(07:09):
Chaos feels normal to me.
Why does that?
Why I've been revisiting all ofwhat was, which is no one's
fault.
I say that now after tons oftherapy.
It's what I was familiar withand it's informed how I moved in
the world and especially how Imoved with people.
Jessica (07:26):
You said that you have obviously worked through that a
lot in therapy, but are therepieces of that, remnants of that
, that you still feel you'renavigating through now?
Aitch Alberto (07:34):
I feel like I don't always be there.
Something that's also beenreally enlightening for me is
there's no arrival at anything,there's no fixing anything.
It's sort of like how do youlearn to live with it and have a
different relationship withwhatever that thing is?
for the individual, that makesit a little easier.
(07:55):
So I don't think I'll ever getrid of any of those things.
They definitely come up a lot.
They just don't consume meanymore and they don't leave my
emotions.
Does that make sense?
Jessica (08:06):
It makes perfect sense .
Melissa Bauknight (08:08):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Jessica (08:09):
I saw an interview with you where you talk about
the film and you said that oneof the themes is how do you go
through the journey of trying tobe who your parents want you to
be and who your soul calls youto be, and how does their trauma
affect the way that younavigate the world?
So I'm wondering if you canspeak to that a little more and
how that question has shown upfor you in your life.
Aitch Alberto (08:30):
That was a big moment.
It's sort of like as adults I'msure we all have that moment of
like, oh shit.
Like our parents are just humanand you humanize them and then
you start looking at the biggerpicture of everything, of
everything that their life wasinformed by, and how they make
decisions and how like reallythey didn't know much and they
were doing their best right.
(08:51):
And then you start likeunpacking that further and
you're like, oh shit, i'mcarrying stuff that's not even
mine, which goes into theconversation of like
generational trauma and like allof that.
And when it comes to people ofcolor or like immigrants, it's
really present because I thinkwe live with this scarcity
mentality.
So like it's just such alayered journey that takes a
(09:12):
minute to sort of negotiate withand make peace with.
But like if you could find thecompassion and not personalize
it, it makes it a little easier.
But that took me a long time.
I'm not going to say my reallife, it was on Monday, but it
took me a really long time.
And it still comes up and I seeit and I look at my parents I
(09:35):
don't speak to my father at thispoint.
I look at my parents and I justhave so much compassion and I'm
so grateful for what they triedto do And it was like the best
version of that, you know.
Melissa Bauknight (09:45):
Yeah, yeah, i think it's a lifetime journey.
For sure, it's not somethingthat happens overnight and it's
something that's always.
It's always living with us,always.
Aitch Alberto (09:53):
Yeah, and it takes a lot of like forgiveness
too, which I never thought Iwould reach that point.
You know, it was my decision tonot speak to my father anymore.
It was not something that wasadding to my life, because for
so long, in trying to live as aversion of what he wanted me to
be or what he thought I shouldbe, i was waiting for a version
(10:15):
of him that he was incapable ofever achieving because he would
have to do so much work aroundit.
That I think is too painful forpeople like him to sit with,
and my door is always open andI'm ready to receive him.
I just don't think that I'llever get that And the version of
a dad that I thought I wouldget from him I'll never get,
(10:36):
which is fine, but he also needsto meet me halfway And I think
sometimes we're like we're stuckwith family forever and it's no
, you're not.
You're stuck with their DNA andwhat they've influenced, but
you don't have to be insomething that doesn't fulfill
you or add to your life, and Ifeel really sad because he's
missing out on probably the bestversion of who I am And I'm so
(10:58):
similar to him.
Melissa Bauknight (10:59):
When you started the process of making
the film, you said that you weredelusional and telling yourself
that you were already beingauthentic.
And so what happened inside ofyou and what started to get
really loud that had you gotowards more of a truer version
of you.
Aitch Alberto (11:12):
That's my motto.
by the way, it's likedelusional confidence is what
sort of gets me through theworld, and I highly recommend it
to everyone.
Melissa Bauknight (11:21):
I think I have that too.
Aitch Alberto (11:24):
It's like no one's going to be there to tell
you how to do it or to like rootfor you.
You kind of like got to be yourbiggest fan, which adds to
delusion.
So, yeah, it was that what Iwas wanting to project wasn't
aligning what I was feelinginternally, so I couldn't aspire
to have a platform and be ableto navigate this story and not
(11:44):
authentically be living in theworld.
As such, it wascounterintuitive.
As an artist to it would feelfraudulent, it would feel like
it would be insincere.
And because it was like a truththat I always lived with, i
guess this story and the realityof it, like coming closer to
being something real and wantingto show up for it fully, was
(12:05):
what was becoming loud andundeniable.
Jessica (12:08):
You have said that when things weren't working for
you as a filmmaker, you felt thesense of desperation in your
household to make it.
And as an actress and being partof the same industry, i really
relate to that.
And there were times in my lifewhere I found that I had to
really watch the tendency toassume that if it isn't
(12:29):
happening for me right away onmy timeline the way that I think
it should, that it isn't meantfor me, that the universe must
be telling me that it's nevergoing to happen.
So I'm curious why didn't youstop?
Why didn't you pack it up?
Why did you keep going?
How did you keep going?
And now that you're living yourdream, what perspective could
you offer to those who are stillin that struggle, that
(12:51):
desperation to get to do whatthey love in an industry that,
at least from this side ofthings, seems to hold a lot of
the power?
Aitch Alberto (12:58):
There's a lot to that.
That was a lot of questions inone.
There's 10 questions in one.
That's where the delusionalconfidence came in right, this
knowing in myself that I didn'tknow one, i didn't know how, but
it had to happen because I justlike deeply felt it, like on a
spiritual, visceral level, andit was something that I always
(13:20):
felt And even if no one aroundme could see it or no one around
me believed it, i existed withthis, almost like knowing
something that people didn'tknow And that was like I meant
for something.
I don't know what that lookslike yet, but I'm going to
continue to follow that andreally trust that.
And when it gets really hard,i'm just going to revisit that
(13:41):
feeling, especially like theyounger version of me, when,
like, your dreams start toformulate, because that's where
I always go back.
It's like people are jaded whenthey talk about the Oscars and
sure it's bullshit, but at theend of the day, if you revisit
that child that would watch thatand that was the aspiration,
it's motivated to right.
So, like, i'm constantlyrevisiting that version of me,
(14:03):
because life makes you jaded andadds all these other things and
it happens and you forget, like, what the dream was.
So that was like a real NorthStar for me, but I knew what was
holding me back.
I knew where the desperationwas coming from.
It was me hoping that I wouldhave a break, or that someone
(14:23):
would see my talent and give mepermission to continue to exist
in like a fake, alternateversion of who I could be Right.
So it's like if I could findsuccess, it would validate this
false version that I'm existingin the world right Because I'll
have at least one thing that Itruly want and everything else
(14:48):
I'll just have to make do with.
But then I knew, on top of that, i wasn't going to ever get
that because I wasn't beingauthentic, because, as a trans
person, it was something that Ithought about every single day.
And the desperation was comingfrom the please save me from
having to walk through thisthing.
(15:08):
that is like consuming my life,you know.
So it was a fix.
I was desperate for it to bethe answer, but also
subconsciously knew, and veryconsciously knew, that I would
never, ever get the answerunless I walk through that truth
.
I hope that makes sense.
That makes sense.
So it's like I needed to liveauthentically in order for my
dreams to come true, and itwouldn't have worked any other
(15:30):
way, and maybe it has for otherpeople, but this sort of like
always implodes on itself, right?
Melissa Bauknight (15:34):
Yeah.
Jessica (15:34):
Yeah, Were you putting it off because of that, Like
what was your tactic to avoid?
I guess your truth.
Aitch Alberto (15:40):
Yeah, i was like in relationships that I probably
shouldn't have been in.
I was trying to hold on tofinding some sort of normalcy
because it's like, oh, a gayrelationship is more acceptable
than being a trans woman in theworld, which is very true and
still is.
But it wasn't about the worldanymore, it was about me, and I
(16:02):
remember when I made thedecision of doing it, it took me
a minute to tell my mother, butI ran the risk of her walking
away from me and I was okay withthat and I needed to be okay
with that in order to make thatdecision and say it out loud.
I was willing to kind of loseit all in order to like exist
happily.
And I describe it as likefinally seeing color, like
everything Pleasantville likeeverything just starts to feel
(16:25):
normal and it makes sense.
And you're like, oh shit, thisis how other people live and
I've wasted that some amount oftime not doing that for myself,
you know.
And when it comes to arriving atyour dreams, that's where I
realized, oh shit, there is noarrival at anything.
Me being in a writer's roomisn't the answer.
I haven't made it.
(16:46):
Me like making this movie isn'tthe answer.
It's all pieces of like of whatthe answer looks like when you
reach the end of that you knowand we don't know what that is.
So that gave me a lot offreedom of oh, i'm always gonna
want something more.
It's always gonna evolve, it'sgonna be hard and it happens to
all filmmakers.
(17:06):
Like, whether you're successfulor not, it looks the same but
different, like the dollaramount changes, but you're still
in the hustle, you're stilltrying to get the next movie
made.
It just like keeps evolving andI think it's the way we mystify
our dreams.
That, like I really want to tellpeople it is that, but it's
also really real and it's reallypainful, and because you're
(17:27):
negotiating with the reality andthe dream and then it just
doesn't always look exactly howyou think it is, but it's okay
because you're there.
That, to me, has been.
I'm still working through thatnow.
That's still like I don't knowwhat that is.
It's fucking weird because it'slike you have like I was making
so much money and theneverything that's happening now
(17:48):
in the industry.
I'm not.
So you're just there's so manyvariables to what I do and what
you do and you just have to kindof like learn that that's gonna
always be there, unless you'relike super loaded and have been
successful a really long timeand know how to invest your
money and are not a person ofcolor whose dad is not a drug
dealer, and you know aboutstocks and like savings and like
(18:09):
all of these things that creategenerational wealth and, like I
had no clue about them, justlearning in real time, you know.
So, there's just like a lot ofthings that go into success that
are not what you often thinkthey are, and that's why
comparing yourself to people isnot a healthy thing to do.
in any capacity They canmotivate you.
(18:30):
The perception of success iswhat we want it to be, not
necessarily what the truth isbehind closed doors.
Melissa Bauknight (18:35):
You just said so many valuable things in that
share and I want to take itback to the beginning of what
you were talking about, ofhaving this vision, this desire,
and that the desire couldn'tcome true until you actually
stepped into who.
You were Right, and I'm not inthe film industry.
I've been in corporate, i'm acoach, i run communities and I
work with a lot of women whoparticularly want to step into
(18:57):
the highest expression of theirsouls work and so I think what
you're speaking to is actuallysomething that applies to all of
us who want to have this bigsoul desire to do something
really important, and we're veryclear that we're being pulled
towards something, and peopleusually come to me or, even if
they're not working with me,they're trying to do what you
were doing.
I've done the same thing.
(19:17):
Where they go for the job, theexternal success point, like
that's when I'll make it, andyou cannot bypass yourself in
the process.
You just cannot do it, andwalking through the fire is
fucking painful and we all haveto do it in our own way in order
to find that expression ofourself, to become the person
that can hold the dream.
(19:39):
But if you want to just go forthe dream and avoid the becoming
.
You're always going to fallshort and wonder why the fuck am
I not getting the thing?
So I wanted to just point thatout because I think the becoming
piece is hard.
It's hard fucking work and itrequires a daily commitment to
self and it requires a lot ofcourage and a lot of bravery to
do that.
So I think it's an incrediblyrelatable story to anybody with
(20:00):
a bigger dream.
Aitch Alberto (20:01):
Yeah, no, that's so true and it's ugly.
It's so ugly and it's sopainful and I think we don't
talk about that enough, we'renot honest about that enough,
and I really want to be for allwomen, for women like me, to
just realize like it's okay tobe messy, it's okay to get it
wrong, it's okay to be in yourfeelings and be emotional and be
crazy and be all of thesethings, as long as you're
(20:24):
visiting that and trying tounpack the why around that.
I'm a hyper aware personbecause of my childhood, which
is like a blessing and a curse,right.
So I think there is some peoplethat can fake it.
I'm not one of those people.
you know so and I'm happy I'mnot.
That's one of the things thatI'm like yeah, all right, cool,
like accept this version of whoI am or this part of me.
Melissa Bauknight (20:45):
I wonder if the faking it though, because
there's a difference of fakingit and making it and actually
enjoying what you have createdand feeling fulfilled and
feeling happy.
So I think, if you're faking it, my opinion is you're probably
missing that piece.
Aitch Alberto (21:00):
Sure, but I do think that I fake it all the
fucking time.
You know, you're just likeshowing up like I'm not in a
good mood today but I'm gonnaget there, you know.
Yeah, but it's this sort ofreally being honest with
yourself, which I think there ispeople in the world and maybe
men are better at this butavoiding you're just like
avoiding the truth, you'reavoiding the emotion, you're
avoiding the reality of it is soyou sort of put a band-aid.
(21:21):
I think the world exists thatway.
It's sort of like speakingabout gender period, like even
like a variance of what that is.
We have been taught that there'sthis binary.
It's really easy to believethat binary, so anything that
sort of disrupts that ideologyis scary for people to sit with,
and that's exactly what'shappening now on a global level
(21:41):
when it comes to, like, transpeople in the world.
So, yeah, i think people couldavoid the truth and exist and
everything's fine.
It's like a sugar baby.
I wish I could fucking do that.
I can't, you know, i need, ineed to like to do and hopefully
has deep pockets.
I look at women like that andlike I admire it.
It's this level of avoidancethat like I don't exist with you
(22:03):
know.
Jessica (22:04):
So no judgment, it's just yeah, one of the things we
were talking about was desireand needing external
achievements.
I have tried in my life toreframe desire that rather than
experience desire to mean that Iwant this because when I get it
I will be complete or my lifewill be better or will fix me or
(22:24):
will fix my life, you know,feel like I have arrived once I
have it.
I now see desire as anindication of the experiences
that you're drawn to, so that itactually encompasses the whole
journey.
We pick the thing that isactually going to take us
through the exact set ofexperiences or the exact
(22:46):
initiation that we need to comeinto wholeness, to come into our
authenticity.
We almost like directly, facethe challenges intentionally, i
think that's it right.
Aitch Alberto (22:57):
It's the acceptance, that desire or
reframing of the narrative, thatdesire is like the answer
versus the motivation.
So I could desire to be afamous actress or an actress
period, And it's just a catalyst, a motivation, not the answer.
And it's like how are you sortof being present to the
(23:20):
experience?
Because I think to be a goodactor you have to really allow
yourself to live and feel and doall these things.
So if the motivation and thegoal is to be an actor,
everything along that journey toyour point informing that With
the writing and the directing,I'm always reading like what's
informing my next project, Howam I hearing the people that I
(23:42):
interact with as potentialinfluences, stories that I want
to tell?
How am I being present for mylife, to experience it, to then
inform my desire, right?
So then you're fullyexperiencing life as much as you
can.
I think I write because I'mabsolutely fascinated with human
(24:04):
dynamics, especially male,female ones, especially when it
comes to love, especially whenit comes to dating as a trans
woman in the world and beingdesired by men that don't know
how to exist beside you.
If you start looking at yourlife on how can my life inform
(24:24):
my desire, then it all isinforming the bigger picture.
So there's no wasted time.
You're sort of always living inthe truth of what your desire
is, because it's informing theultimate goal.
Jessica (24:39):
I think trust or desire is a powerful fuel.
If we try to shut our desiredown, it's like killing our life
force right.
It shuts down an important partof us.
It's giving us informationabout the journey that we want
to go on in this life.
Aitch Alberto (24:54):
Often see it in artists mostly in artists that
didn't follow that path I'llmeet people that are like, oh,
i'm doing this thing and I'mmaking money, but really I wish
I was painting, really I wish Iwas playing instruments.
It's usually your soul iscalling to you in some way and I
think that you could hold allof it.
You don't have to be one thingor the other.
(25:15):
So I think when we negate ourdesires, our dreams, whatever
name you want to put on it,there's always going to be a
void in us.
And the other thing that Ithink that I'm really passionate
about is allowing your ugly,like whatever that is, like your
trauma, to be your superpowerand your answer.
(25:36):
My ugly was this thing that Ithought was holding me back, but
it was really the answer towhat I was aspiring to be.
So that was really revealing tome.
I'm like, oh, the thing thatI've been trying to avoid is the
fucking answer.
Always this It always is.
So I think, once we allow thatto sort of creep its way in
(25:57):
gently because I think everybodygoes through that on their own
whatever that is for you, i alsorefused at this point in my
life to let my identity be mywhole identity, my transness, is
this much of my life.
I'm like a woman who happens tobe trans, who happens to be a
writer, who happens to be areally dope soul to exist in the
(26:20):
world and who I share my timewith, who I give my energy to,
is also really specific at thispoint in my life.
So I think I'm really proud ofthat.
I'm really proud of the notneeding to search for answers in
other people or validation.
Jessica (26:35):
I'm wondering if you can speak emotionally to the
process of answering your soul'scall.
You mentioned earlier that,even getting to the point that
you could sit with your motherand be okay if she turned away I
think it's true for all of usthat our authentic selves are on
the other side of what we'remost afraid of.
(26:56):
but the actual process to getto the point that you have
cultivated enough courage butalso are okay enough within
yourself to do whatever it isyou need to do for you.
I'm just wondering if you caninvite us into how you were able
to finally get there.
Aitch Alberto (27:13):
I've been really angry.
I will not anymore.
But like I was really angry, iwas really sad.
I was really aggressive.
It would manifest in these uglyways.
I was like, oh shit, but thisis not really who I am.
I'm sort of this gentle personbut the world is talking that I
need to protect myself from it.
I'm still negotiating thatbecause I've hardened that.
(27:35):
I think a lot of women dobecause of the way we have to
exist in the world constantly,in our masculine energy, we're
constantly in survival mode.
So that's something that isreally painful and having the
awareness around that Maybehelped me a lot.
Like constantly searching foranswers.
I mean, i was in abusiverelationships where I was on the
receiving end and also theaggressor.
(27:56):
There's been so much ugly thatI've allowed myself to go
through trying to avoidsomething that was again always
the answer.
I think I needed to push myselfto the ugliest to realize that
wasn't how I want to exist inthe world, because it wasn't
fulfilling my soul and thehigher version of myself.
(28:19):
It was just undeniable.
So it was a lot of chronic, alot of really toxic behavior, a
lot of using my body in waysthat I thought would validate me
, finding and seeking validationin other people, especially men
, like yeah, anything that youcould imagine I've done, and
(28:41):
it's like a constant, especiallyin trans women, where not only
are you having this conversationwith yourself but the world is
also having it for you Andyou're like the bottom of the
barrel in so many communitiesand on this global scale where
you're like being invalidatedconstantly is really painful.
So a lot of trans women seek outways of being validated that
(29:07):
are not healthy to the biggerpicture of your life and it has
nothing to do with sex work.
It has to do with what you'reaccepting And then you're
affirming the way the world isperceiving you.
But you want to be seen forlike an hour And that's a really
painful sort of thing to nothave readily available or not
(29:28):
think is an option for you.
It's not easy for me to date inthe world, but there are people
that like, if you set yourboundaries and I think the
supplies to everyone will meetyou there, and I can't see
enough how Much better it is tobe alone than in bad company,
and that takes a long time, along time to realize that, but
(29:49):
finding yourself for it iseverything.
So yeah, it's really it's beenreally, really painful, really
painful, and it still is, and Istill waiver.
These dark thoughts come in andI know I hear like younger
folks Come and talk to me and belike if I could just get to
where you are.
This happened to me recently.
You know like to where I am.
I was like, yeah, like it'scool that I made a movie, but
(30:11):
when the door is closed, likeI'm alone and it's scary and I'm
messy and I don't always get itright, so take me off the
pedestal.
It's very similar to who youare and how we're existing.
I'm just relentless in likeachieving my dreams, but that's
possible for anybody.
Melissa Bauknight (30:28):
How have you found, you know, feeling safe in
the world?
I mean, it's a theme for all ofus, right, that we want to feel
seen and we want to feel safe.
And How have you navigated that?
How have you found communitieswhere you Have felt safe to show
up as you and found those,those key people in your life
who have given you permission to?
I mean, i know it starts withyou, but we need to have those
(30:49):
people in our life where we'relike you're fully accepted and
welcome and safe here, exactlyas you are.
How have you navigated findingthose people?
I'm always searching for thosepeople.
Aitch Alberto (30:59):
So I have a core group of people that that's who
I keep around me and usuallylike the same faces, and I'm
okay because I'm getting thatlike I could fully show up as
myself.
I'm not great at small talk, ilike to like dive deep, so, yeah
, it's just like being reallyspecific and knowing There's
like this like Undeniable sortof thing that happens when you
(31:19):
meet people that you really feelsafe with.
You know, but I'm alwayssearching for that and Anyone I
come in contact.
I think it's just rare becausewe often are showing up with all
our own shit, you know, and Ithink if we stop personalizing
how we're received in the world,that's how you'd normalize
things right.
(31:40):
I'm not leading with my identity, i'm leading with me, and if my
identity becomes a part of theconversation, this happens quite
a bit, especially when it comesto dudes.
This was said to me once I hadmet a guy and I had it like just
close to him right away, and wegot to a point where it was
like you know, right, and like Isaid, i was trans and he's like
why don't I want to kill youright now If he was like you're
(32:04):
a woman?
and it's like, yes, it's ascary statement, but if we take
that away and realize what he'sbeen informed, you're like oh
okay, i've changed this guy,i've shifted this guy's
perspective on who we are,because he actually Interacted
with a real trans person andwasn't being fed a version of
who we are.
Jessica (32:25):
So was he saying why don't you match up to what I've
been told?
Aitch Alberto (32:29):
That's basically what that statement is Why do I
see you as who you are and whyam I still attracted to you?
I didn't feel scared by thatstatement, right?
I think he was being reallyrevealing about what was
happening to him internally.
It was what he's being fed andit's like, oh you know, men in
dresses or men in wigs, and Iwasn't that for him, so he was
(32:52):
really seeing me.
It goes to say that, like youknow, a lot of what's the word
judgment comes from is rooted infear and not knowing.
Yeah for sure.
So when I'm existing in spacesthat I don't belong in and
you're not Looking at me justsolely on my identity, you're
(33:13):
shifting the narrative, right.
So that's why I'm reallypassionate about not othering
myself.
Everywhere I go Yeah, yeah.
Jessica (33:23):
Can you tell us about How Aristotle and Dante discover
the secrets of the universecame into your life?
How did you find that book?
Aitch Alberto (33:35):
I was, um, i acted for a little bit too.
I was doing a play in 2014.
I think 2013 I don't rememberthe year right now for fringe,
and one of the actors in theshow is like you should read
this book.
So it's a recommendation from afriend, and I was in Portland
for Thanksgiving with anex-boyfriend.
(33:56):
I bought the book and then Iread it in one sitting and I was
like holy shit, this iseverything I want to say.
This is like talking aboutidentity in a way that's like
really gentle and beautiful,especially when it comes to like
Latino stories, like Latinicstories, latinese stories that I
hadn't seen before.
I'd had this like really gentlelens to it.
(34:16):
So I had a producer friendcheck the right and to me it was
like impossible that the rightswould be available because It
was just so undeniably beautifuland they were.
Then I wrote the script on spec, which means I did it for free
and without permission.
Jessica (34:33):
This is before you.
You spoke with the author thisis before.
Aitch Alberto (34:37):
So I wrote the script and then I reached out to
the author.
I said to him an email and Iwas like, hey, i did this thing
and can I come and meet you?
That was in January.
In February, march, i was in ElPaso, where the story takes
place and where Benjamin lives.
On the way there I don't thinkI've said this before on the way
(34:59):
there, i was like what am Idoing?
Like I was on the plane, i waslike this dude could be like a
fucking creeper.
I was like.
And then like I was like no, hewrote Aristotle and Dante.
There's no way.
And sure enough, it was likethese really beautiful, magical
four days that we spent togetherand he like read the script to
me And by the end of that tripwe were sitting in a Mexican
(35:21):
restaurant in Las Cruces, newMexico, and he's like these boys
are mine and now I give them toyou.
And we're both like crying.
And then I discovered that thisbook is like huge.
Jessica (35:33):
Like a huge deal.
It's a huge deal.
Aitch Alberto (35:35):
Yeah, like there's like people that have
tattoos and like Lin-ManuelMiranda has done the audio book
and I'm like what are you doing?
bitch, like what are you doing?
And then a producer friend well, she wasn't in my friend yet,
but Outfest connected me withValerie Stadler, who's a
producer.
We started developing thescript together and it was like
30 drafts in took us a reallylong time.
(35:58):
And then I was like we need toget Lin-Manuel involved in some
capacity.
So we did the traditional routeThis had said before and I feel
like everybody's heard thestory, but maybe not.
We did the traditional routemanagers, agents, no response.
It was months and months of noresponse.
I was like you know what?
nothing about this story or mylife has been traditional.
I'm gonna tweet at Lin-Manuel.
(36:21):
So I tweeted at Lin-Manuel.
It was like New Year's Day,2019.
And I was like, hey, i hopeLin-Manuel reads my script this
year And I had already fans ofthe book following me, so it
really helped him to notice it.
And 20 minutes later he replied.
Three months later he was in LAand agreeing to be a producer
on the movie And then, little bylittle, everything just started
(36:42):
to fall into place.
I got an agent, i did theSundance episodic lab.
I started working in television.
I had met Eva Longoria on apitch for her new movie, flaming
Hot that's coming out soon.
We really connected And so itwas just like how can I make
this work?
Being validated by all thesepeople?
like my profile as like aworthy contender to be a
(37:04):
director for the movie wasbecoming really real, because
I've always wanted to direct itAnd I was told I couldn't.
So it was like with otherbigger directors, but I just was
doing the work and always knewthat it was my story to tell.
And whenever there was like abunch of false starts, i was
like, yeah, duh.
And once I was like found afinancier, pitched my vision of
(37:26):
the movie to Lin and he agreedto have my back.
And once that started to happen, everything started to fall
into place.
Yeah, so we got financing.
Like Eugenio came on board,everything just was easy.
You know, post production notso much, but everything to that
point was just yeah, it wasmeant to be just like worked out
(37:47):
.
Melissa Bauknight (37:47):
I love that when the ease is there, there's
alignment.
Aitch Alberto (37:51):
That's it, that's it, that's it.
I really look for that in allaspects of my life.
Melissa Bauknight (37:56):
Yeah.
Jessica (37:57):
But what someone might just dismiss as like an
impossible dream, you actuallyhad the courage.
you had the courage to makethat phone call and talk to the
writer.
You had the courage to tweetLin Manuel without having any
idea at first how you wouldactually pull it off, So you
were just listening to herinstincts.
I mean, I don't know if youcould even see the outcome at
that point.
What was it for you in themiddle of it that kept you going
(38:20):
?
Aitch Alberto (38:20):
I could see the outcome, or like my version of
what the outcome was Like.
I really dreamt it, visualizedit, like the whole thing, but in
a very like natural way.
it was an I'm going to manifestthis thing.
It was just.
I see this.
I see myself like in a theaterwatching this movie with an
audience.
I see myself on set.
Like I see it, i very clearlysaw it which, like, if we want
(38:43):
to talk about manifestation,like that's exactly what it is,
except too much focus on it.
So it's just like we've exhaustthe manifestation.
but it was just very easy, LikeI just clearly saw it and like
that was my drive.
Melissa Bauknight (38:56):
To me it's the embodiment.
I'm chasing a very big dreamand it's being birthed into the
world right now And I relate toit the same way that I'm like
it's done.
I know that it's done.
I don't know how it's going toget done, i don't know who it's
going to get done with, but itfeels so alive in my being, in
my body right now, and it soundslike that's how it was for you.
(39:17):
It's like I have no idea.
I feel fucking crazy that I'mdoing this thing.
Who am I?
But also I can't not, it's inme, it's alive in me.
That's how I'm feeling as I'mhearing you.
It's the full embodiment of thevision 100%.
Aitch Alberto (39:33):
That's why sometimes I'm like, fuck, i
don't have my person yet, idon't have this thing yet, i
don't have the house yet.
But I'm like, but I've met that, i've felt that version of me
where I have all those things.
That's coming.
I just need to remind myselfthat it's coming sometimes when
it gets really hard And whenyou're waver off, revisiting the
feeling is okay, it's thedelusion, that's the delusional
(39:57):
confidence, it's all part ofthat.
Jessica (40:00):
Is that always there?
Do you have moments of doubt,or how do you navigate
uncertainty when it creeps?
Aitch Alberto (40:07):
up, i don't know.
Sometimes I stay deep in theuncertainty.
I'm like I'm going to be DebbieDowner and live in this trauma
because this is what reallyfeels familiar.
So like, well me, everythinghappens to me, nothing goes
right for me, and like I'll staythere because that's
comfortable.
I've been in that space, youknow the majority of my life.
(40:28):
And then you're like wait, wait, wait, wait.
I've done work around me.
I know how to get back to likethe version where I'm in like
receiving mode, where I'mwelcoming abundance, but I'm
kind to myself when I waver offand I don't always know it right
away.
So, yeah, those are the thingswhere I think people are like,
(40:48):
oh my God, like a who in day,like it's not going to come And
it's like, no, it's all part ofit.
It's like getting back to thatfeeling is what's important,
because once you know how to doit, once you know how to do it,
Yeah, it's incredibly importantto speak to this, though that
it's not that you're never goingto fall off the rails again.
Melissa Bauknight (41:04):
It's not that we're never going to go back
into the depths of this familiardarkness.
We always will.
We're human.
But it's, how long are weremaining there?
Yeah, you know, you may haveremained there for decades, four
years, for months, whateverthat is for your journey, but
the more you understand thefeeling of not that and how you
really desire to be feeling andyou have that familiarity in
(41:25):
your body, then the duration isshorter, right, so you might go
down there and then you're like,okay, yep, i did that again.
Now I'm coming back out, but itmight not be as dramatic or as
long of an experience, but Ithink it's important to speak to
that, because it's not allfucking sunshine and rainbows,
it's not like a relentlessconfidence all day, every day.
It's like you have the rollercoaster, but are you willing to
(41:47):
stay on the ride and not get offof it and give yourself the
time to feel the shit, toremember how far you've come in
the process?
Aitch Alberto (41:54):
Yeah, yeah, and that's that.
Yes, and that's why it's whatwe were talking about earlier.
It's learning how to live withit, because that's always going
to be there.
So you learn how to live withit.
Oh shit, like I'm in, like thisold version of myself.
This feels familiar.
I'm not going to stay here formuch longer than a beat and get
back to the feeling that feelsmore aligned with who I am in
(42:16):
the world, which is reallypowerful, even if you're like in
the ick of it, in the shit ofit, for like a week and you're
like, oh shit, like I'm able toget back there that feels nice.
You know Yeah.
Melissa Bauknight (42:31):
My client once said that, coming back into
alignment, it often feels likeyou set a sailboat on autopilot,
which I've only been sailingonce.
So now I actually get this.
You set destination A to B andit shows up as a straight line
on a map, but in reality it'slike oh shit, there's an island
right there, or there's a stormcoming, or there's another
vessel coming, but you're stillmoving forward.
(42:52):
It's just not this linear,straight line.
So it's all about coming backto whatever you want to call
center, the North Star itself,knowing that you're going to
constantly be veering off on thesides of it on your quest to
wherever you're headed.
Aitch Alberto (43:06):
I love that so much because it's so real.
Yeah, healing's not linear atall, and once you realize that
and accept that, it makes it somuch easier.
Because I also think thatresistance is pain.
Whatever we're resisting iswhat's causing us pain.
So, in the acceptance of the oh, my dreams aren't going to look
(43:28):
perfect, my journey to get tomy dreams isn't going to be
perfect, and you don't resistthat, it makes it a lot easier
to navigate or to sail through.
Melissa Bauknight (43:40):
Well done, well done.
It's the writer in me, if youwill.
Aitch Alberto (43:49):
It's true, though I know.
Jessica (43:51):
Before we go, can you tell us what this film means to
you?
Aitch Alberto (43:56):
Don't ask me that .
yet That's really beautiful andit makes me really emotional.
I'm a tourist, double cancer.
Jessica (44:06):
I'm tripped like double cancer too.
Aitch Alberto (44:08):
I cried a lot.
It's the end of a version of methat I'm really proud to kind
of have seen it through and I'mreally ready for like the next
phase in my life.
But like this was such animportant piece of arriving at a
(44:31):
really special place, of owningmy authenticity, and this movie
was like accompanying me onthat journey, so like everyone
that loved me throughout.
It is reflected in the moviebecause they're pieces of me So
yeah, it's like the vessel foryour arrival itself.
Melissa Bauknight (44:53):
Yeah.
Aitch Alberto (44:54):
And it's just like that.
It's sort of like a buoy.
Melissa Bauknight (44:57):
So we're going to talk about sailing.
We're going to just talk aboutsailing the rest of the time.
Aitch Alberto (45:02):
I think it's just so perfect to bring you back to
sailing.
It's like a buoy that turned meon your sail And it's like you
know, it took me a long time toput that one there, So I'm
really proud of it.
Jessica (45:16):
How can people see it?
When does it come out?
Aitch Alberto (45:18):
It comes out this summer.
It comes out this summer, itwill be in theaters across the
country and it'll have aninternational release as well,
so it'll be available for peopleto see.
I can't wait.
Jessica (45:31):
I'm so excited.
I can't wait.
Yeah, we are so grateful.
Thank you for taking the timeand being so generous and
vulnerable and wise and dealingwith our tech issues and
embracing the mess right.
Everything that happened in thelast hour just encompasses all
(45:53):
of that right.
Aitch Alberto (45:54):
So for sure.
I mean, at no point was I likestressed out about it, it was
like it's just like it makessense.
So thank you, thank you forhaving me.
Melissa Bauknight (46:03):
And I just want to thank you for your
delusional confidence, becauseyou're a vision holder.
You're a vision holder for allof us and you know to not give
up, to keep going and to bebrave and to have that
relentless pursuit of a biggerdream, and you're the type of
woman I want to be surrounded by.
I want to have these type ofwomen in the room together where
we're like sometimes we feelfucking nuts, but we have this
(46:24):
like crazy confidence that wehad this dream place inside of
our soul for a reason and we'renot going to stop And it might
not make sense along the path,but I just want to thank you for
your courage because it'sreally it means a lot.
Aitch Alberto (46:37):
Likewise, thank you guys for holding so much
beautiful space and it is reallyempowering.
It's hard being a woman, butalso it's as hard as we make it.
So the world is sort of likeeverything's stacked against us.
But if we sort of like sailright to that Back to what we
(46:57):
just said once, you know it'sgoing to be hard.
It just it really does make iteasier, and having women beside
you is really important.
Jessica (47:04):
I also just want to reflect that your willingness to
be as brave as you have been.
It brings us collectivelycloser to truth.
Aitch Alberto (47:15):
Well, that's really powerful, thank you.
Jessica (47:19):
Yeah, and I feel really grateful.
Melissa Bauknight (47:21):
Thank you.
Thank you, yay, all right, wedid it, we did it.
Aitch Alberto (47:27):
Hey there Rebels.
Jessica (47:37):
If you enjoyed this podcast, we would love your
support.
In a few quick ways.
You can also leave us a review.
.
(00:30):
.
This is the Inner Rebel podcast.
I was like I think she'sstarting, but it's.
Aitch Alberto (00:52):
It only matters when the camera is on.
Jessica (00:57):
I was saying that I feel a little bit emotional.
We met very, very briefly in aweird little context, but I was
really moved by the briefinteraction that we had.
I just kept thinking about youfor this and I feel so lucky
that you said yes and thatyou're here today.
Thank you for saying yes andshowing up.
(01:20):
I'm very excited to share withour listeners who is sitting
with us today.
We have Aitch Alberto, who is awriter director born and raised
in Miami.
She has written on the upcomingMac series Duster from JJ
Abrams and Latoya Morgan.
She has also served as a writeron Apple TV's anthology series
Little America from LeeEisenberg and Sean Heder.
(01:43):
H has adapted and directed theNew York Times bestselling young
adult novel Aristotle and DanteDiscover the Secrets of the
Universe by Benjamin Alire Saenzinto a film produced by
Lin-Manuel Miranda and EugenioDerbez.
The film premiered at theToronto International Film
(02:03):
Festival last year My Hometownand will be exclusively in
theaters this summer.
H was named one of Variety's 10Directors to Watch for 2022 and
IndieWire's 22 Rising FemaleFilmmakers and most recently,
vogue Polan named her one ofthis generation's defining
female voices in filmmaking.
(02:23):
We are so excited to have youwith us.
Thank you for being here.
H.
Aitch Alberto (02:29):
Thank you so much for having me.
This is so exciting.
I remember our very briefinteraction, but it stayed with
me as well, so when you reachedout, it was a no-brainer to say
yes.
So thank you for thinking of me, yes.
Jessica (02:42):
I know if you've listened at all to this podcast,
but we tend to dive deep rightoff the top And you have adapted
a book into a film.
So I went and looked a littlebit into that book And on the
first page of Aristotle andDante Discover the Secrets of
the Universe, it's written.
The problem with my life wasthat it was someone else's idea
(03:06):
And this ties so deeply into theentire theme of this podcast
And we usually ask all ourguests the question and you can
answer this in any way that youwant.
Who are you And how is thatdifferent from who you thought
or were told you were supposedto be?
Aitch Alberto (03:26):
Such a loaded question but it's also so easy.
I think one of my greatestachievements and what I'm most
proud of is who I am and knowingwho I am now and owning that
fully and as authentically aspossible.
That was not an easy journey.
I was born into a CubanAmerican household in Miami
(03:50):
which is very rooted in toxicmasculinity.
My dad, being of immigrantparents, was definitely someone
who lived in survival mode.
So he became a drug dealer andthen became a fugitive And we
lived on the run with him foreight years And through that
time I always I was assignedmale at birth but always knew
(04:13):
that didn't align with who I wasin the world and who I felt
inside.
But the world was telling me Iwas wrong for feeling that way.
So you start to believe thatand then you add, like these
cultural elements to it, thatyou're just like oh, there
really is something wrong withme And you try to hold on to
this version that other peoplewant you to be until you realize
(04:36):
you can't die that way and youhave to, like, walk through that
truth no matter what you lose.
So that to answer that questionthat's exactly who I am today
was getting to a moment, reallylate in life, where I couldn't
look at myself in the mirrorwithout at least giving myself a
chance.
Melissa Bauknight (04:57):
And I did.
I love that.
You said one of my greatestachievements is knowing who I am
, and it's so beautiful becausewhen we read your bio, you're
obviously doing incrediblethings from a more traditional
success standpoint But I lovethat that was your reflection is
my greatest achievement isactually me and knowing me.
Aitch Alberto (05:14):
Well, none of that would have been possible at
all without knowing who I wasand owning that truth, and it
took me like a long time to havethat success on paper, always
knowing that I had some sort oftalent and that my voice was
worth being heard.
But I would always circle adrain of success and things
wouldn't manifest.
I started seeing color when Ijust owned my identity, and then
(05:36):
everything started to come in,my career started to take off, i
said yes to myself And then theworld was saying yes to me.
And so it's just like it'sreally trippy to kind of think
of it that way, because you'rejust like I could fake it, i
could be this thing thateverybody wants me to be, and
then you realize you can't,because it's just diminishing
who you really are.
Melissa Bauknight (05:57):
Yeah, yeah.
Jessica (05:59):
Well, I feel like we need to unpack every layer of
what you just said.
But let's go back to what yousaid about your family.
You said that your father wasin the drug trade and he was a
fugitive for a long time, and soyou were on the road for eight
years as a kid.
So what was that like, and howdid having that kind of
experience as a child shape yourworld view today?
Aitch Alberto (06:25):
It was really intense, right, But that's only
in hindsight and reflecting backon it.
In the moment It feltcompletely normal.
I didn't know any different.
I was like everybody's familywas like on the run and going to
like vacation spots and likesort of like hiding out.
You just don't know.
You knew something was off,but… I credit my mother and my
(06:49):
grandmother with trying to rootit in love as much as possible
and be a constant throughout thechaos.
That was my childhood.
But it was only as an adultwhere I was like oh wait, how is
this living in my body, whereI'm hyper-vigilant,
hyper-paranoid, I don't trustpeople, I'm resistant to get
close.
(07:09):
Chaos feels normal to me.
Why does that?
Why I've been revisiting all ofwhat was, which is no one's
fault.
I say that now after tons oftherapy.
It's what I was familiar withand it's informed how I moved in
the world and especially how Imoved with people.
Jessica (07:26):
You said that you have obviously worked through that a
lot in therapy, but are therepieces of that, remnants of that
, that you still feel you'renavigating through now?
Aitch Alberto (07:34):
I feel like I don't always be there.
Something that's also beenreally enlightening for me is
there's no arrival at anything,there's no fixing anything.
It's sort of like how do youlearn to live with it and have a
different relationship withwhatever that thing is?
for the individual, that makesit a little easier.
(07:55):
So I don't think I'll ever getrid of any of those things.
They definitely come up a lot.
They just don't consume meanymore and they don't leave my
emotions.
Does that make sense?
Jessica (08:06):
It makes perfect sense .
Melissa Bauknight (08:08):
Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
Jessica (08:09):
I saw an interview with you where you talk about
the film and you said that oneof the themes is how do you go
through the journey of trying tobe who your parents want you to
be and who your soul calls youto be, and how does their trauma
affect the way that younavigate the world?
So I'm wondering if you canspeak to that a little more and
how that question has shown upfor you in your life.
Aitch Alberto (08:30):
That was a big moment.
It's sort of like as adults I'msure we all have that moment of
like, oh shit.
Like our parents are just humanand you humanize them and then
you start looking at the biggerpicture of everything, of
everything that their life wasinformed by, and how they make
decisions and how like reallythey didn't know much and they
were doing their best right.
(08:51):
And then you start likeunpacking that further and
you're like, oh shit, i'mcarrying stuff that's not even
mine, which goes into theconversation of like
generational trauma and like allof that.
And when it comes to people ofcolor or like immigrants, it's
really present because I thinkwe live with this scarcity
mentality.
So like it's just such alayered journey that takes a
(09:12):
minute to sort of negotiate withand make peace with.
But like if you could find thecompassion and not personalize
it, it makes it a little easier.
But that took me a long time.
I'm not going to say my reallife, it was on Monday, but it
took me a really long time.
And it still comes up and I seeit and I look at my parents I
(09:35):
don't speak to my father at thispoint.
I look at my parents and I justhave so much compassion and I'm
so grateful for what they triedto do And it was like the best
version of that, you know.
Melissa Bauknight (09:45):
Yeah, yeah, i think it's a lifetime journey.
For sure, it's not somethingthat happens overnight and it's
something that's always.
It's always living with us,always.
Aitch Alberto (09:53):
Yeah, and it takes a lot of like forgiveness
too, which I never thought Iwould reach that point.
You know, it was my decision tonot speak to my father anymore.
It was not something that wasadding to my life, because for
so long, in trying to live as aversion of what he wanted me to
be or what he thought I shouldbe, i was waiting for a version
(10:15):
of him that he was incapable ofever achieving because he would
have to do so much work aroundit.
That I think is too painful forpeople like him to sit with,
and my door is always open andI'm ready to receive him.
I just don't think that I'llever get that And the version of
a dad that I thought I wouldget from him I'll never get,
(10:36):
which is fine, but he also needsto meet me halfway And I think
sometimes we're like we're stuckwith family forever and it's no
, you're not.
You're stuck with their DNA andwhat they've influenced, but
you don't have to be insomething that doesn't fulfill
you or add to your life, and Ifeel really sad because he's
missing out on probably the bestversion of who I am And I'm so
(10:58):
similar to him.
Melissa Bauknight (10:59):
When you started the process of making
the film, you said that you weredelusional and telling yourself
that you were already beingauthentic.
And so what happened inside ofyou and what started to get
really loud that had you gotowards more of a truer version
of you.
Aitch Alberto (11:12):
That's my motto.
by the way, it's likedelusional confidence is what
sort of gets me through theworld, and I highly recommend it
to everyone.
Melissa Bauknight (11:21):
I think I have that too.
Aitch Alberto (11:24):
It's like no one's going to be there to tell
you how to do it or to like rootfor you.
You kind of like got to be yourbiggest fan, which adds to
delusion.
So, yeah, it was that what Iwas wanting to project wasn't
aligning what I was feelinginternally, so I couldn't aspire
to have a platform and be ableto navigate this story and not
(11:44):
authentically be living in theworld.
As such, it wascounterintuitive.
As an artist to it would feelfraudulent, it would feel like
it would be insincere.
And because it was like a truththat I always lived with, i
guess this story and the realityof it, like coming closer to
being something real and wantingto show up for it fully, was
(12:05):
what was becoming loud andundeniable.
Jessica (12:08):
You have said that when things weren't working for
you as a filmmaker, you felt thesense of desperation in your
household to make it.
And as an actress and being partof the same industry, i really
relate to that.
And there were times in my lifewhere I found that I had to
really watch the tendency toassume that if it isn't
(12:29):
happening for me right away onmy timeline the way that I think
it should, that it isn't meantfor me, that the universe must
be telling me that it's nevergoing to happen.
So I'm curious why didn't youstop?
Why didn't you pack it up?
Why did you keep going?
How did you keep going?
And now that you're living yourdream, what perspective could
you offer to those who are stillin that struggle, that
(12:51):
desperation to get to do whatthey love in an industry that,
at least from this side ofthings, seems to hold a lot of
the power?
Aitch Alberto (12:58):
There's a lot to that.
That was a lot of questions inone.
There's 10 questions in one.
That's where the delusionalconfidence came in right, this
knowing in myself that I didn'tknow one, i didn't know how, but
it had to happen because I justlike deeply felt it, like on a
spiritual, visceral level, andit was something that I always
(13:20):
felt And even if no one aroundme could see it or no one around
me believed it, i existed withthis, almost like knowing
something that people didn'tknow And that was like I meant
for something.
I don't know what that lookslike yet, but I'm going to
continue to follow that andreally trust that.
And when it gets really hard,i'm just going to revisit that
(13:41):
feeling, especially like theyounger version of me, when,
like, your dreams start toformulate, because that's where
I always go back.
It's like people are jaded whenthey talk about the Oscars and
sure it's bullshit, but at theend of the day, if you revisit
that child that would watch thatand that was the aspiration,
it's motivated to right.
So, like, i'm constantlyrevisiting that version of me,
(14:03):
because life makes you jaded andadds all these other things and
it happens and you forget, like, what the dream was.
So that was like a real NorthStar for me, but I knew what was
holding me back.
I knew where the desperationwas coming from.
It was me hoping that I wouldhave a break, or that someone
(14:23):
would see my talent and give mepermission to continue to exist
in like a fake, alternateversion of who I could be Right.
So it's like if I could findsuccess, it would validate this
false version that I'm existingin the world right Because I'll
have at least one thing that Itruly want and everything else
(14:48):
I'll just have to make do with.
But then I knew, on top of that, i wasn't going to ever get
that because I wasn't beingauthentic, because, as a trans
person, it was something that Ithought about every single day.
And the desperation was comingfrom the please save me from
having to walk through thisthing.
(15:08):
that is like consuming my life,you know.
So it was a fix.
I was desperate for it to bethe answer, but also
subconsciously knew, and veryconsciously knew, that I would
never, ever get the answerunless I walk through that truth
.
I hope that makes sense.
That makes sense.
So it's like I needed to liveauthentically in order for my
dreams to come true, and itwouldn't have worked any other
(15:30):
way, and maybe it has for otherpeople, but this sort of like
always implodes on itself, right?
Melissa Bauknight (15:34):
Yeah.
Jessica (15:34):
Yeah, Were you putting it off because of that, Like
what was your tactic to avoid?
I guess your truth.
Aitch Alberto (15:40):
Yeah, i was like in relationships that I probably
shouldn't have been in.
I was trying to hold on tofinding some sort of normalcy
because it's like, oh, a gayrelationship is more acceptable
than being a trans woman in theworld, which is very true and
still is.
But it wasn't about the worldanymore, it was about me, and I
(16:02):
remember when I made thedecision of doing it, it took me
a minute to tell my mother, butI ran the risk of her walking
away from me and I was okay withthat and I needed to be okay
with that in order to make thatdecision and say it out loud.
I was willing to kind of loseit all in order to like exist
happily.
And I describe it as likefinally seeing color, like
everything Pleasantville likeeverything just starts to feel
(16:25):
normal and it makes sense.
And you're like, oh shit, thisis how other people live and
I've wasted that some amount oftime not doing that for myself,
you know.
And when it comes to arriving atyour dreams, that's where I
realized, oh shit, there is noarrival at anything.
Me being in a writer's roomisn't the answer.
I haven't made it.
(16:46):
Me like making this movie isn'tthe answer.
It's all pieces of like of whatthe answer looks like when you
reach the end of that you knowand we don't know what that is.
So that gave me a lot offreedom of oh, i'm always gonna
want something more.
It's always gonna evolve, it'sgonna be hard and it happens to
all filmmakers.
(17:06):
Like, whether you're successfulor not, it looks the same but
different, like the dollaramount changes, but you're still
in the hustle, you're stilltrying to get the next movie
made.
It just like keeps evolving andI think it's the way we mystify
our dreams.
That, like I really want to tellpeople it is that, but it's
also really real and it's reallypainful, and because you're
(17:27):
negotiating with the reality andthe dream and then it just
doesn't always look exactly howyou think it is, but it's okay
because you're there.
That, to me, has been.
I'm still working through thatnow.
That's still like I don't knowwhat that is.
It's fucking weird because it'slike you have like I was making
so much money and theneverything that's happening now
(17:48):
in the industry.
I'm not.
So you're just there's so manyvariables to what I do and what
you do and you just have to kindof like learn that that's gonna
always be there, unless you'relike super loaded and have been
successful a really long timeand know how to invest your
money and are not a person ofcolor whose dad is not a drug
dealer, and you know aboutstocks and like savings and like
(18:09):
all of these things that creategenerational wealth and, like I
had no clue about them, justlearning in real time, you know.
So, there's just like a lot ofthings that go into success that
are not what you often thinkthey are, and that's why
comparing yourself to people isnot a healthy thing to do.
in any capacity They canmotivate you.
(18:30):
The perception of success iswhat we want it to be, not
necessarily what the truth isbehind closed doors.
Melissa Bauknight (18:35):
You just said so many valuable things in that
share and I want to take itback to the beginning of what
you were talking about, ofhaving this vision, this desire,
and that the desire couldn'tcome true until you actually
stepped into who.
You were Right, and I'm not inthe film industry.
I've been in corporate, i'm acoach, i run communities and I
work with a lot of women whoparticularly want to step into
(18:57):
the highest expression of theirsouls work and so I think what
you're speaking to is actuallysomething that applies to all of
us who want to have this bigsoul desire to do something
really important, and we're veryclear that we're being pulled
towards something, and peopleusually come to me or, even if
they're not working with me,they're trying to do what you
were doing.
I've done the same thing.
(19:17):
Where they go for the job, theexternal success point, like
that's when I'll make it, andyou cannot bypass yourself in
the process.
You just cannot do it, andwalking through the fire is
fucking painful and we all haveto do it in our own way in order
to find that expression ofourself, to become the person
that can hold the dream.
(19:39):
But if you want to just go forthe dream and avoid the becoming
.
You're always going to fallshort and wonder why the fuck am
I not getting the thing?
So I wanted to just point thatout because I think the becoming
piece is hard.
It's hard fucking work and itrequires a daily commitment to
self and it requires a lot ofcourage and a lot of bravery to
do that.
So I think it's an incrediblyrelatable story to anybody with
(20:00):
a bigger dream.
Aitch Alberto (20:01):
Yeah, no, that's so true and it's ugly.
It's so ugly and it's sopainful and I think we don't
talk about that enough, we'renot honest about that enough,
and I really want to be for allwomen, for women like me, to
just realize like it's okay tobe messy, it's okay to get it
wrong, it's okay to be in yourfeelings and be emotional and be
crazy and be all of thesethings, as long as you're
(20:24):
visiting that and trying tounpack the why around that.
I'm a hyper aware personbecause of my childhood, which
is like a blessing and a curse,right.
So I think there is some peoplethat can fake it.
I'm not one of those people.
you know so and I'm happy I'mnot.
That's one of the things thatI'm like yeah, all right, cool,
like accept this version of whoI am or this part of me.
Melissa Bauknight (20:45):
I wonder if the faking it though, because
there's a difference of fakingit and making it and actually
enjoying what you have createdand feeling fulfilled and
feeling happy.
So I think, if you're faking it, my opinion is you're probably
missing that piece.
Aitch Alberto (21:00):
Sure, but I do think that I fake it all the
fucking time.
You know, you're just likeshowing up like I'm not in a
good mood today but I'm gonnaget there, you know.
Yeah, but it's this sort ofreally being honest with
yourself, which I think there ispeople in the world and maybe
men are better at this butavoiding you're just like
avoiding the truth, you'reavoiding the emotion, you're
avoiding the reality of it is soyou sort of put a band-aid.
(21:21):
I think the world exists thatway.
It's sort of like speakingabout gender period, like even
like a variance of what that is.
We have been taught that there'sthis binary.
It's really easy to believethat binary, so anything that
sort of disrupts that ideologyis scary for people to sit with,
and that's exactly what'shappening now on a global level
(21:41):
when it comes to, like, transpeople in the world.
So, yeah, i think people couldavoid the truth and exist and
everything's fine.
It's like a sugar baby.
I wish I could fucking do that.
I can't, you know, i need, ineed to like to do and hopefully
has deep pockets.
I look at women like that andlike I admire it.
It's this level of avoidancethat like I don't exist with you
(22:03):
know.
Jessica (22:04):
So no judgment, it's just yeah, one of the things we
were talking about was desireand needing external
achievements.
I have tried in my life toreframe desire that rather than
experience desire to mean that Iwant this because when I get it
I will be complete or my lifewill be better or will fix me or
(22:24):
will fix my life, you know,feel like I have arrived once I
have it.
I now see desire as anindication of the experiences
that you're drawn to, so that itactually encompasses the whole
journey.
We pick the thing that isactually going to take us
through the exact set ofexperiences or the exact
(22:46):
initiation that we need to comeinto wholeness, to come into our
authenticity.
We almost like directly, facethe challenges intentionally, i
think that's it right.
Aitch Alberto (22:57):
It's the acceptance, that desire or
reframing of the narrative, thatdesire is like the answer
versus the motivation.
So I could desire to be afamous actress or an actress
period, And it's just a catalyst, a motivation, not the answer.
And it's like how are you sortof being present to the
(23:20):
experience?
Because I think to be a goodactor you have to really allow
yourself to live and feel and doall these things.
So if the motivation and thegoal is to be an actor,
everything along that journey toyour point informing that With
the writing and the directing,I'm always reading like what's
informing my next project, Howam I hearing the people that I
(23:42):
interact with as potentialinfluences, stories that I want
to tell?
How am I being present for mylife, to experience it, to then
inform my desire, right?
So then you're fullyexperiencing life as much as you
can.
I think I write because I'mabsolutely fascinated with human
(24:04):
dynamics, especially male,female ones, especially when it
comes to love, especially whenit comes to dating as a trans
woman in the world and beingdesired by men that don't know
how to exist beside you.
If you start looking at yourlife on how can my life inform
(24:24):
my desire, then it all isinforming the bigger picture.
So there's no wasted time.
You're sort of always living inthe truth of what your desire
is, because it's informing theultimate goal.
Jessica (24:39):
I think trust or desire is a powerful fuel.
If we try to shut our desiredown, it's like killing our life
force right.
It shuts down an important partof us.
It's giving us informationabout the journey that we want
to go on in this life.
Aitch Alberto (24:54):
Often see it in artists mostly in artists that
didn't follow that path I'llmeet people that are like, oh,
i'm doing this thing and I'mmaking money, but really I wish
I was painting, really I wish Iwas playing instruments.
It's usually your soul iscalling to you in some way and I
think that you could hold allof it.
You don't have to be one thingor the other.
(25:15):
So I think when we negate ourdesires, our dreams, whatever
name you want to put on it,there's always going to be a
void in us.
And the other thing that Ithink that I'm really passionate
about is allowing your ugly,like whatever that is, like your
trauma, to be your superpowerand your answer.
(25:36):
My ugly was this thing that Ithought was holding me back, but
it was really the answer towhat I was aspiring to be.
So that was really revealing tome.
I'm like, oh, the thing thatI've been trying to avoid is the
fucking answer.
Always this It always is.
So I think, once we allow thatto sort of creep its way in
(25:57):
gently because I think everybodygoes through that on their own
whatever that is for you, i alsorefused at this point in my
life to let my identity be mywhole identity, my transness, is
this much of my life.
I'm like a woman who happens tobe trans, who happens to be a
writer, who happens to be areally dope soul to exist in the
(26:20):
world and who I share my timewith, who I give my energy to,
is also really specific at thispoint in my life.
So I think I'm really proud ofthat.
I'm really proud of the notneeding to search for answers in
other people or validation.
Jessica (26:35):
I'm wondering if you can speak emotionally to the
process of answering your soul'scall.
You mentioned earlier that,even getting to the point that
you could sit with your motherand be okay if she turned away I
think it's true for all of usthat our authentic selves are on
the other side of what we'remost afraid of.
(26:56):
but the actual process to getto the point that you have
cultivated enough courage butalso are okay enough within
yourself to do whatever it isyou need to do for you.
I'm just wondering if you caninvite us into how you were able
to finally get there.
Aitch Alberto (27:13):
I've been really angry.
I will not anymore.
But like I was really angry, iwas really sad.
I was really aggressive.
It would manifest in these uglyways.
I was like, oh shit, but thisis not really who I am.
I'm sort of this gentle personbut the world is talking that I
need to protect myself from it.
I'm still negotiating thatbecause I've hardened that.
(27:35):
I think a lot of women dobecause of the way we have to
exist in the world constantly,in our masculine energy, we're
constantly in survival mode.
So that's something that isreally painful and having the
awareness around that Maybehelped me a lot.
Like constantly searching foranswers.
I mean, i was in abusiverelationships where I was on the
receiving end and also theaggressor.
(27:56):
There's been so much ugly thatI've allowed myself to go
through trying to avoidsomething that was again always
the answer.
I think I needed to push myselfto the ugliest to realize that
wasn't how I want to exist inthe world, because it wasn't
fulfilling my soul and thehigher version of myself.
(28:19):
It was just undeniable.
So it was a lot of chronic, alot of really toxic behavior, a
lot of using my body in waysthat I thought would validate me
, finding and seeking validationin other people, especially men
, like yeah, anything that youcould imagine I've done, and
(28:41):
it's like a constant, especiallyin trans women, where not only
are you having this conversationwith yourself but the world is
also having it for you Andyou're like the bottom of the
barrel in so many communitiesand on this global scale where
you're like being invalidatedconstantly is really painful.
So a lot of trans women seek outways of being validated that
(29:07):
are not healthy to the biggerpicture of your life and it has
nothing to do with sex work.
It has to do with what you'reaccepting And then you're
affirming the way the world isperceiving you.
But you want to be seen forlike an hour And that's a really
painful sort of thing to nothave readily available or not
(29:28):
think is an option for you.
It's not easy for me to date inthe world, but there are people
that like, if you set yourboundaries and I think the
supplies to everyone will meetyou there, and I can't see
enough how Much better it is tobe alone than in bad company,
and that takes a long time, along time to realize that, but
(29:49):
finding yourself for it iseverything.
So yeah, it's really it's beenreally, really painful, really
painful, and it still is, and Istill waiver.
These dark thoughts come in andI know I hear like younger
folks Come and talk to me and belike if I could just get to
where you are.
This happened to me recently.
You know like to where I am.
I was like, yeah, like it'scool that I made a movie, but
(30:11):
when the door is closed, likeI'm alone and it's scary and I'm
messy and I don't always get itright, so take me off the
pedestal.
It's very similar to who youare and how we're existing.
I'm just relentless in likeachieving my dreams, but that's
possible for anybody.
Melissa Bauknight (30:28):
How have you found, you know, feeling safe in
the world?
I mean, it's a theme for all ofus, right, that we want to feel
seen and we want to feel safe.
And How have you navigated that?
How have you found communitieswhere you Have felt safe to show
up as you and found those,those key people in your life
who have given you permission to?
I mean, i know it starts withyou, but we need to have those
(30:49):
people in our life where we'relike you're fully accepted and
welcome and safe here, exactlyas you are.
How have you navigated findingthose people?
I'm always searching for thosepeople.
Aitch Alberto (30:59):
So I have a core group of people that that's who
I keep around me and usuallylike the same faces, and I'm
okay because I'm getting thatlike I could fully show up as
myself.
I'm not great at small talk, ilike to like dive deep, so, yeah
, it's just like being reallyspecific and knowing There's
like this like Undeniable sortof thing that happens when you
(31:19):
meet people that you really feelsafe with.
You know, but I'm alwayssearching for that and Anyone I
come in contact.
I think it's just rare becausewe often are showing up with all
our own shit, you know, and Ithink if we stop personalizing
how we're received in the world,that's how you'd normalize
things right.
(31:40):
I'm not leading with my identity, i'm leading with me, and if my
identity becomes a part of theconversation, this happens quite
a bit, especially when it comesto dudes.
This was said to me once I hadmet a guy and I had it like just
close to him right away, and wegot to a point where it was
like you know, right, and like Isaid, i was trans and he's like
why don't I want to kill youright now If he was like you're
(32:04):
a woman?
and it's like, yes, it's ascary statement, but if we take
that away and realize what he'sbeen informed, you're like oh
okay, i've changed this guy,i've shifted this guy's
perspective on who we are,because he actually Interacted
with a real trans person andwasn't being fed a version of
who we are.
Jessica (32:25):
So was he saying why don't you match up to what I've
been told?
Aitch Alberto (32:29):
That's basically what that statement is Why do I
see you as who you are and whyam I still attracted to you?
I didn't feel scared by thatstatement, right?
I think he was being reallyrevealing about what was
happening to him internally.
It was what he's being fed andit's like, oh you know, men in
dresses or men in wigs, and Iwasn't that for him, so he was
(32:52):
really seeing me.
It goes to say that, like youknow, a lot of what's the word
judgment comes from is rooted infear and not knowing.
Yeah for sure.
So when I'm existing in spacesthat I don't belong in and
you're not Looking at me justsolely on my identity, you're
(33:13):
shifting the narrative, right.
So that's why I'm reallypassionate about not othering
myself.
Everywhere I go Yeah, yeah.
Jessica (33:23):
Can you tell us about How Aristotle and Dante discover
the secrets of the universecame into your life?
How did you find that book?
Aitch Alberto (33:35):
I was, um, i acted for a little bit too.
I was doing a play in 2014.
I think 2013 I don't rememberthe year right now for fringe,
and one of the actors in theshow is like you should read
this book.
So it's a recommendation from afriend, and I was in Portland
for Thanksgiving with anex-boyfriend.
(33:56):
I bought the book and then Iread it in one sitting and I was
like holy shit, this iseverything I want to say.
This is like talking aboutidentity in a way that's like
really gentle and beautiful,especially when it comes to like
Latino stories, like Latinicstories, latinese stories that I
hadn't seen before.
I'd had this like really gentlelens to it.
(34:16):
So I had a producer friendcheck the right and to me it was
like impossible that the rightswould be available because It
was just so undeniably beautifuland they were.
Then I wrote the script on spec, which means I did it for free
and without permission.
Jessica (34:33):
This is before you.
You spoke with the author thisis before.
Aitch Alberto (34:37):
So I wrote the script and then I reached out to
the author.
I said to him an email and Iwas like, hey, i did this thing
and can I come and meet you?
That was in January.
In February, march, i was in ElPaso, where the story takes
place and where Benjamin lives.
On the way there I don't thinkI've said this before on the way
(34:59):
there, i was like what am Idoing?
Like I was on the plane, i waslike this dude could be like a
fucking creeper.
I was like.
And then like I was like no, hewrote Aristotle and Dante.
There's no way.
And sure enough, it was likethese really beautiful, magical
four days that we spent togetherand he like read the script to
me And by the end of that tripwe were sitting in a Mexican
(35:21):
restaurant in Las Cruces, newMexico, and he's like these boys
are mine and now I give them toyou.
And we're both like crying.
And then I discovered that thisbook is like huge.
Jessica (35:33):
Like a huge deal.
It's a huge deal.
Aitch Alberto (35:35):
Yeah, like there's like people that have
tattoos and like Lin-ManuelMiranda has done the audio book
and I'm like what are you doing?
bitch, like what are you doing?
And then a producer friend well, she wasn't in my friend yet,
but Outfest connected me withValerie Stadler, who's a
producer.
We started developing thescript together and it was like
30 drafts in took us a reallylong time.
(35:58):
And then I was like we need toget Lin-Manuel involved in some
capacity.
So we did the traditional routeThis had said before and I feel
like everybody's heard thestory, but maybe not.
We did the traditional routemanagers, agents, no response.
It was months and months of noresponse.
I was like you know what?
nothing about this story or mylife has been traditional.
I'm gonna tweet at Lin-Manuel.
(36:21):
So I tweeted at Lin-Manuel.
It was like New Year's Day,2019.
And I was like, hey, i hopeLin-Manuel reads my script this
year And I had already fans ofthe book following me, so it
really helped him to notice it.
And 20 minutes later he replied.
Three months later he was in LAand agreeing to be a producer
on the movie And then, little bylittle, everything just started
(36:42):
to fall into place.
I got an agent, i did theSundance episodic lab.
I started working in television.
I had met Eva Longoria on apitch for her new movie, flaming
Hot that's coming out soon.
We really connected And so itwas just like how can I make
this work?
Being validated by all thesepeople?
like my profile as like aworthy contender to be a
(37:04):
director for the movie wasbecoming really real, because
I've always wanted to direct itAnd I was told I couldn't.
So it was like with otherbigger directors, but I just was
doing the work and always knewthat it was my story to tell.
And whenever there was like abunch of false starts, i was
like, yeah, duh.
And once I was like found afinancier, pitched my vision of
(37:26):
the movie to Lin and he agreedto have my back.
And once that started to happen, everything started to fall
into place.
Yeah, so we got financing.
Like Eugenio came on board,everything just was easy.
You know, post production notso much, but everything to that
point was just yeah, it wasmeant to be just like worked out
(37:47):
.
Melissa Bauknight (37:47):
I love that when the ease is there, there's
alignment.
Aitch Alberto (37:51):
That's it, that's it, that's it.
I really look for that in allaspects of my life.
Melissa Bauknight (37:56):
Yeah.
Jessica (37:57):
But what someone might just dismiss as like an
impossible dream, you actuallyhad the courage.
you had the courage to makethat phone call and talk to the
writer.
You had the courage to tweetLin Manuel without having any
idea at first how you wouldactually pull it off, So you
were just listening to herinstincts.
I mean, I don't know if youcould even see the outcome at
that point.
What was it for you in themiddle of it that kept you going
(38:20):
?
Aitch Alberto (38:20):
I could see the outcome, or like my version of
what the outcome was Like.
I really dreamt it, visualizedit, like the whole thing, but in
a very like natural way.
it was an I'm going to manifestthis thing.
It was just.
I see this.
I see myself like in a theaterwatching this movie with an
audience.
I see myself on set.
Like I see it, i very clearlysaw it which, like, if we want
(38:43):
to talk about manifestation,like that's exactly what it is,
except too much focus on it.
So it's just like we've exhaustthe manifestation.
but it was just very easy, LikeI just clearly saw it and like
that was my drive.
Melissa Bauknight (38:56):
To me it's the embodiment.
I'm chasing a very big dreamand it's being birthed into the
world right now And I relate toit the same way that I'm like
it's done.
I know that it's done.
I don't know how it's going toget done, i don't know who it's
going to get done with, but itfeels so alive in my being, in
my body right now, and it soundslike that's how it was for you.
(39:17):
It's like I have no idea.
I feel fucking crazy that I'mdoing this thing.
Who am I?
But also I can't not, it's inme, it's alive in me.
That's how I'm feeling as I'mhearing you.
It's the full embodiment of thevision 100%.
Aitch Alberto (39:33):
That's why sometimes I'm like, fuck, i
don't have my person yet, idon't have this thing yet, i
don't have the house yet.
But I'm like, but I've met that, i've felt that version of me
where I have all those things.
That's coming.
I just need to remind myselfthat it's coming sometimes when
it gets really hard And whenyou're waver off, revisiting the
feeling is okay, it's thedelusion, that's the delusional
(39:57):
confidence, it's all part ofthat.
Jessica (40:00):
Is that always there?
Do you have moments of doubt,or how do you navigate
uncertainty when it creeps?
Aitch Alberto (40:07):
up, i don't know.
Sometimes I stay deep in theuncertainty.
I'm like I'm going to be DebbieDowner and live in this trauma
because this is what reallyfeels familiar.
So like, well me, everythinghappens to me, nothing goes
right for me, and like I'll staythere because that's
comfortable.
I've been in that space, youknow the majority of my life.
(40:28):
And then you're like wait, wait, wait, wait.
I've done work around me.
I know how to get back to likethe version where I'm in like
receiving mode, where I'mwelcoming abundance, but I'm
kind to myself when I waver offand I don't always know it right
away.
So, yeah, those are the thingswhere I think people are like,
(40:48):
oh my God, like a who in day,like it's not going to come And
it's like, no, it's all part ofit.
It's like getting back to thatfeeling is what's important,
because once you know how to doit, once you know how to do it,
Yeah, it's incredibly importantto speak to this, though that
it's not that you're never goingto fall off the rails again.
Melissa Bauknight (41:04):
It's not that we're never going to go back
into the depths of this familiardarkness.
We always will.
We're human.
But it's, how long are weremaining there?
Yeah, you know, you may haveremained there for decades, four
years, for months, whateverthat is for your journey, but
the more you understand thefeeling of not that and how you
really desire to be feeling andyou have that familiarity in
(41:25):
your body, then the duration isshorter, right, so you might go
down there and then you're like,okay, yep, i did that again.
Now I'm coming back out, but itmight not be as dramatic or as
long of an experience, but Ithink it's important to speak to
that, because it's not allfucking sunshine and rainbows,
it's not like a relentlessconfidence all day, every day.
It's like you have the rollercoaster, but are you willing to
(41:47):
stay on the ride and not get offof it and give yourself the
time to feel the shit, toremember how far you've come in
the process?
Aitch Alberto (41:54):
Yeah, yeah, and that's that.
Yes, and that's why it's whatwe were talking about earlier.
It's learning how to live withit, because that's always going
to be there.
So you learn how to live withit.
Oh shit, like I'm in, like thisold version of myself.
This feels familiar.
I'm not going to stay here formuch longer than a beat and get
back to the feeling that feelsmore aligned with who I am in
(42:16):
the world, which is reallypowerful, even if you're like in
the ick of it, in the shit ofit, for like a week and you're
like, oh shit, like I'm able toget back there that feels nice.
You know Yeah.
Melissa Bauknight (42:31):
My client once said that, coming back into
alignment, it often feels likeyou set a sailboat on autopilot,
which I've only been sailingonce.
So now I actually get this.
You set destination A to B andit shows up as a straight line
on a map, but in reality it'slike oh shit, there's an island
right there, or there's a stormcoming, or there's another
vessel coming, but you're stillmoving forward.
(42:52):
It's just not this linear,straight line.
So it's all about coming backto whatever you want to call
center, the North Star itself,knowing that you're going to
constantly be veering off on thesides of it on your quest to
wherever you're headed.
Aitch Alberto (43:06):
I love that so much because it's so real.
Yeah, healing's not linear atall, and once you realize that
and accept that, it makes it somuch easier.
Because I also think thatresistance is pain.
Whatever we're resisting iswhat's causing us pain.
So, in the acceptance of the oh, my dreams aren't going to look
(43:28):
perfect, my journey to get tomy dreams isn't going to be
perfect, and you don't resistthat, it makes it a lot easier
to navigate or to sail through.
Melissa Bauknight (43:40):
Well done, well done.
It's the writer in me, if youwill.
Aitch Alberto (43:49):
It's true, though I know.
Jessica (43:51):
Before we go, can you tell us what this film means to
you?
Aitch Alberto (43:56):
Don't ask me that .
yet That's really beautiful andit makes me really emotional.
I'm a tourist, double cancer.
Jessica (44:06):
I'm tripped like double cancer too.
Aitch Alberto (44:08):
I cried a lot.
It's the end of a version of methat I'm really proud to kind
of have seen it through and I'mreally ready for like the next
phase in my life.
But like this was such animportant piece of arriving at a
(44:31):
really special place, of owningmy authenticity, and this movie
was like accompanying me onthat journey, so like everyone
that loved me throughout.
It is reflected in the moviebecause they're pieces of me So
yeah, it's like the vessel foryour arrival itself.
Melissa Bauknight (44:53):
Yeah.
Aitch Alberto (44:54):
And it's just like that.
It's sort of like a buoy.
Melissa Bauknight (44:57):
So we're going to talk about sailing.
We're going to just talk aboutsailing the rest of the time.
Aitch Alberto (45:02):
I think it's just so perfect to bring you back to
sailing.
It's like a buoy that turned meon your sail And it's like you
know, it took me a long time toput that one there, So I'm
really proud of it.
Jessica (45:16):
How can people see it?
When does it come out?
Aitch Alberto (45:18):
It comes out this summer.
It comes out this summer, itwill be in theaters across the
country and it'll have aninternational release as well,
so it'll be available for peopleto see.
I can't wait.
Jessica (45:31):
I'm so excited.
I can't wait.
Yeah, we are so grateful.
Thank you for taking the timeand being so generous and
vulnerable and wise and dealingwith our tech issues and
embracing the mess right.
Everything that happened in thelast hour just encompasses all
(45:53):
of that right.
Aitch Alberto (45:54):
So for sure.
I mean, at no point was I likestressed out about it, it was
like it's just like it makessense.
So thank you, thank you forhaving me.
Melissa Bauknight (46:03):
And I just want to thank you for your
delusional confidence, becauseyou're a vision holder.
You're a vision holder for allof us and you know to not give
up, to keep going and to bebrave and to have that
relentless pursuit of a biggerdream, and you're the type of
woman I want to be surrounded by.
I want to have these type ofwomen in the room together where
we're like sometimes we feelfucking nuts, but we have this
(46:24):
like crazy confidence that wehad this dream place inside of
our soul for a reason and we'renot going to stop And it might
not make sense along the path,but I just want to thank you for
your courage because it'sreally it means a lot.
Aitch Alberto (46:37):
Likewise, thank you guys for holding so much
beautiful space and it is reallyempowering.
It's hard being a woman, butalso it's as hard as we make it.
So the world is sort of likeeverything's stacked against us.
But if we sort of like sailright to that Back to what we
(46:57):
just said once, you know it'sgoing to be hard.
It just it really does make iteasier, and having women beside
you is really important.
Jessica (47:04):
I also just want to reflect that your willingness to
be as brave as you have been.
It brings us collectivelycloser to truth.
Aitch Alberto (47:15):
Well, that's really powerful, thank you.
Jessica (47:19):
Yeah, and I feel really grateful.
Melissa Bauknight (47:21):
Thank you.
Thank you, yay, all right, wedid it, we did it.
Aitch Alberto (47:27):
Hey there Rebels.
Jessica (47:37):
If you enjoyed this podcast, we would love your
support.
In a few quick ways.
You can also leave us a review.
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