July 21, 2023 • 48 mins
Ever thought about what it means to "have it all"? Leadership, finding balance, setting boundaries, nurturing love for family while pursuing a dream—can it all fit into one life? How do you deal with self-doubt when you're climbing that ladder of success? We're diving deep into these questions with our friend, Arianne Pirisi. She's not just an inspiring mom, but also the savvy head of digital strategy for a multi-billion dollar retail giant. Working in a world often dominated by men, Arianne shares her secret of success, how she faced down fears and uncertainties as she moved up the ladder, how she juggles career and mom-life, and why sensitivity is a superpower.
But what about the other side of success? The nagging "mom-guilt," the judgment of others? Discerning who gets your free time? Arianne fearlessly opens up about her personal journey of crafting a life that allows her to thrive while embracing her multifaceted roles -- without compromise. This conversation is an invitation to understand your humanness, embrace imperfection, embody your feminine power, and still claim your dreams like a pro.
Key Topics in this episode:
- Leading in business
- Importance of prioritizing in personal and professional life
- The myth of 'arriving' at a state of perfection in leadership
- Overcoming self-doubt and anxiety in high-stakes situations
- Embracing vulnerability in leadership roles
- The struggle of balancing personal and professional identities
- Dispelling the myth of needing to 'fix oneself' before achieving success
- Dealing with self-consciousness
- Embracing feminine energy and slowing down
- The power of vulnerability and empathy in the workplace
- Balancing personal and professional lives without compromise
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free monthly community call on the first Wednesday of every month, join here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
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Thanks, rebels.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
This is the Inner Rebel podcast, so I wanted to
bring Arianne on because you'rea dear friend of mine and a
really inspiring mom andprofessional woman and what
(01:08):
you've been able to accomplishis incredible, and I know that
it takes a lot to get to whereyou have gotten, so I'm excited
to share you with our people.
So Arianne is a business leader.
She's a mom of two, a lover ofnature and a costume party
enthusiast.
Woo Facts it's very true.
(01:29):
She lives in Golden we live inthe same place and she has her
two children, sam and Quinn, andher extremely patient husband,
andrew.
He is so lovely.
Arianne leads the digitalstrategy and execution of a
multi-billion dollar retailbusiness and has recently
stepped into an executive globalleadership role, which we get
to celebrate today because thisis hot off the presses, and her
(01:51):
special talents includeimmaculate retention of every
90s hip-hop song lyric and theability to turn any party into a
dance party and it's very truethings.
Arianne (02:01):
Really valuable skills.
(02:03):
What was your favorite costume that you've ever worn?
Arianne (02:06):
Oh, my goodness, this is such a challenging question
and we only have an hour.
I would say the most fun for mehave been the family costume,
so my husband and I used to goreal hard at Halloween back
before we had kids, and so I hadsome really good ones then.
(02:20):
Is this how you know he was the one?
Arianne (02:22):
This was.
The defining moment in ourrelationship was when he dressed
up as the Kool-Aid man and camebusting into a party saying, oh
yeah, that's for me, that's forme, that's my guy.
That was my favorite costume heever wore, but I would say just
bringing it full circle to ourfamily.
So was it two years ago, yeah.
So we had this epic Halloweenparty as a neighborhood and we
(02:44):
dressed as Mary Poppins.
I was Mary Poppins, obviously,and then my children were like
street urchins.
They were the chimney sweeps.
My whole family was like coveredin, so I had this delightful
Mary Poppins costume, so I justloved like the family unit
together.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I also have to say they were waist management,
which I thought is what you'regoing to say, and her little,
cutest little daughter in thewhole world was the inspiration
for the entire costume and shewas like a little rat.
Arianne (03:10):
She was a disgusting rat and it was.
That costume was because shewanted to be a rat.
She was four years old andwe're like Quinn, what do you
want to be?
And her best friend, grace, isBelle from Beauty and the Beast
and all these darling littleprincesses and she's like nah,
I'm going to be a rat.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
She was a good rat too, it was a great rat Really
good, big, long tail, filthylittle picture.
Arianne (03:29):
Yeah, that was a good one.
So we were a trash family.
We were a family of trashbandits that year.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And this is what it takes to be an executive woman
in the corporate world, keepingit real.
(03:41):
We have a question that we like to start out asking our
guests, because it's one thingto hear your bio and all of the
things that you've accomplished,but I'm interested in how you
see yourself and how you seeyour journey.
So can you tell us who are youand how is that different from
(04:01):
who you maybe thought or weretold you were supposed to be?
Arianne (04:05):
Let me just say there's a game that some of my
girlfriends and I play and it'show do I see you, how do you see
yourself, how do you want to beseen?
And it's like among the mostvulnerable and revealing games,
and it requires so much selfreflection and it also then
requires your friends to playback to you how they see you.
And so this question is both sodeep for me and important and
(04:26):
also so challenging.
But I've, you know, done a lotof self reflection over time and
thought about this a lot, and Ithink I see myself as a person
who's dynamically on the path tobecoming the same, but a better
version, and just a constantevolution and work in progress,
and generally someone who justhas a lot of enthusiasm and zest
for life, even for things likework, like my work is a big part
(04:47):
of my life and that's because Igenuinely love it, which is
kind of weird.
A lot of things lighten me up,so that's the costumes.
(04:53):
And then that shell, yes, yes .
Arianne (04:55):
And I think we all have such unique you know the
circumstances of our childhood,obviously formulator self
concept.
So I was an only child.
I grew up in Alaska.
My mom was a teacher and then alibrarian, my dad was a
geologist and engineer.
I kind of had a uniqueexistence in that space.
I think Alaska like there arevery few social norms there that
are the same as they are here.
(05:16):
That's probably changed now.
But the connectivity of lifethere it's isolated, there's no
private school, there's nocountry club, there's no people
wearing monograms.
You show up differently thereand so I think I sometimes
undervalue maybe what that didFor my experience because
socially there was just a verydifferent mindset and I think
(05:37):
there's also a unique type ofperson who was up there.
Right, my parents.
They weren't born there, theywent there seeking adventure and
just wanted this life.
That was unique and different.
I think I sometimes undervaluethat.
I don't think about it thatmuch because we all just had our
own existence and you know.
But if I reflect on mychildhood and who I was supposed
to be, what's actually prettycool is I feel like I've
contemplated this and I cannotfeel that there was a projection
(06:00):
to say that this is who you areand this is what we expect of
you.
That's great.
Shout out mom, dad.
That persisted through.
Like my journey of who Ithought I was going to be high
school to college, to earlycareer vacillated quite a bit,
like I look at myself now inthis very capitalist executive
role.
And when I came out of collegeI was like I'm going to work for
(06:22):
a nonprofit.
I studied organizationalcommunication.
I had all of these differentkind of opinions of who I would
be and literally I feel like myparents were like okay, okay.
No no no, Like all right, I wentto school in upstate New York.
I went really far away.
I studied in Europe.
I mean, I was our only child.
I think of this now as a parent.
It was never about them.
It was never about theirexpectations.
It was like okay, well, we'rehere for you, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And I want to actually interject something too
, because I think so often itcan be their fears.
The projection can be the fears, right.
Like oh my child's going so faraway.
I'm scared.
So, therefore, I'm going to putthat over on you right so.
I also.
It seems like they did afantastic job of not putting.
If they had them, which I'msure you know, you're a parent
of course you have them, but notmaking it yours Right, and I
(07:05):
think as a child you cannot evencontemplate or understand what
fears your parents might have.
Arianne (07:09):
No, you don't grasp it right.
I had no sense that they mightbe uncomfortable if I didn't
call for several weeks while Iwas in Europe, and then there
was nothing that was encroachingon the sides to say like well,
here are your parameters, here'syour box right, and I can just
say the concept of who I wasgoing to become.
Generally, I felt like I wasallowed to forge a path and just
become whatever would be right,and that's an interesting theme
(07:30):
too, the support theme.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
right, this is like a segue, but we talk about safety
and being with safe people.
I would say I give you shit,but you're discerning and you
have a good spidey sense aboutpeople and you can tell when
somebody feels safe or not.
What are your thoughts on thelevel of support that you've
been able to accept and have andcontinue to cultivate?
Arianne (07:52):
Yeah, I think I simultaneously have support that
I've taken for granted and Ithink starting with parents
right Like being a little child,you kind of just get it right.
In the areas of my life whereI'm closest to people I've
willingly accepted support andmaybe even expected it unduly
just to be real, and havewillingly received that.
Sometimes, in extending the askfor support to a broader
(08:15):
network, I've had discomfortwith that and I've learned a lot
actually even from theneighborhood network here,
watching the relationshipsbetween people and the ease to
like ask for help in the mostsimple ways and that has taught
me a lot and seeing this groupof women who so easily and
willingly supports one anotherin a way that's very generous.
(08:36):
There's not an expectation ofreciprocity, it's almost that
will come around in due time,right, and so I think I am still
learning a lot about communityand what that means.
(08:46):
What taught you to be discerning?
Have you always been that way,yeah, or did you have to learn
the hard?
Arianne (08:51):
way.
No.
What has taught me to bediscerning has been, I would say
, I've been very lucky toexperience some friendships that
are incredibly powerful, and Iwould say there's a couple of
defining qualities about thepeople who I've found really
tight friendships with, andthose people are very secure in
themselves.
So I would say like a sense ofself-awareness and security, and
(09:14):
then, second to that, theability to self-reflect the
people who are able toself-reflect, and I think I've
always had some very deepfriendships.
But honestly, I think, likeCOVID and 2020 and then the
simultaneous acceleration of mycareer, those things in
intersection have beenincredibly powerful, because
COVID was the ultimate edit.
It was like, you know, you hadto really hone in on these
(09:38):
relationships that were specialand precious and lean into them,
and I really love that.
And then I think, as my careerhas accelerated and I've felt
the depth of some of these veryimportant friendships, I've kind
of been like I'm going toreserve space for the most
important things and the thingsthat are the most valuable, and
I think in our lives, like theability to prioritize and edit
and give attention to the thingsthat bring the most value.
(10:01):
That lesson applies over andover and over again.
And so, in friendships beingdiscerning, I have been
fortunate enough to experiencefriendships of great depth and
incredible meaning and have thenbeen like, yeah, I'm just going
to have more of that.
Like I just, I'd rather justhave more of that.
Right, give me more of that,I'd like that.
Yeah, so I think those thingshave really contributed.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Well, I'm curious when did you start identifying
as a leader?
And I know there's an evolutionalways with that, but I'm
curious is that something thatyou grew up, having that
identity, or is that somethingthat you've evolved into as
you've progressed in life?
Arianne (10:37):
Yeah, I think I had two key traits growing up that were
somewhat self-identified, andthen also I had these formative
experiences that identified them, maybe showed them to me, and
they're kind of conflictingtraits.
So the first was just likeinnate natural leadership, and
the other was that I was overlysensitive.
I had this narrative from myfamily and my mom's theory was I
(10:58):
had a traumatic birth and sothat made me overly sensitive,
apparently that's.
There's a correlation, pause,she's a reflector, a reflector.
Yeah, so that's why oh wow,y'all can tell me more about
what that means.
I just I know it.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I'm still learning, jess is going to dive into that,
but I wanted to answer thatbecause I know Jess's head is
going to be like okay, great,I'm excited to hear about that.
(11:18):
I don't know if we have time to dive into that right now, but
we don't.
I'm going to be here all night.
Arianne (11:22):
So, yeah, I had this innate leadership and the overly
sensitive part.
I remember one time as a kidfinding this report card and
they had asked for parentfeedback and my mom had called
me extremely sensitive and whenI read that I cried no, I'm not
Cause.
I was like I'm not toosensitive and like I cried so,
okay, very, very sensitive,which I think has evolved over
time.
I do feel deeply feeling, but Ifeel very level in the way I
(11:45):
express my emotion, but I do, Ithink, have a sensitivity to my
own emotion and maybe to othersemotions.
And then the second part of itis just the leadership piece is.
I actually don't even remembera moment in time where I didn't
feel like a leader.
I have never had any challengeor question or thought of that.
(12:02):
But what does that mean to you?
What does it feel like to be aleader?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh, we don't exist in the surface in this
conversation.
Arianne (12:09):
Yeah, it feels like a deep sense of confidence and
willingness to set a path.
Not at all that I necessarilyhave all the answers, but I have
the confidence and ability tomove in a direction and to rally
people toward that direction.
I think like my definition ofleadership and the leader I want
to be and the leader I hope tobe in.
(12:30):
The leader I think I am is verymuch about collectivism and
being able to face the fear orthe trepidation of taking the
first step right and bringothers along with me.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And how has that?
Because obviously now you'reliterally a global leader and
I'm curious what are some of thethings you've had to overcome
to step into that level ofleadership?
So what are some of the thingsthat, on your journey to the top
, what are you navigating insideof your own mind?
Arianne (12:59):
First, I would say that the journey is ongoing and I
think you obviously know that.
But I think my early perceptionwas you practice it, you gain
the skills, you get to thisplace and you look up at that
place and you go, oh, they'vemastered it.
and mastery must feel sodifferent and I think the number
one thing I would say is thaton a daily basis, I'm doing
things.
Now that would have seemed soscary, and sometimes they are
(13:21):
still scary, and I think I wouldjust dispel the myth that you
get to this place and all of asudden don't have the self-doubt
.
I think that's one of the mostimportant realizations is that
we all live with it constantlyand if you don't, maybe you're
not being very self-reflective,right, because to me that's a
part of awareness is like, ofcourse, I always had more room
for growth.
I think that self-doubt isongoing.
I think that practice lendsitself to something.
(13:41):
You become more comfortable insituations that previously gave
you anxiety.
I think also like realizing thehumanness of everyone around
you, other leaders, like now.
I've had practice being in roomswith people who are very well
established, very successful,they have really high positions
of power, and I'm like the moreexposure we get to that, the
more you're like oh, these arejust people, I'm this person, I
(14:05):
am these people, right, and soit's acclimating to the
normalness of humans and humannature and really just rooting
ourselves in our similaritiesand that and that, I think, has
made it for me a lot lessintimidating has removed some
self-doubt has given me comfortand I think also I've now, as a
leader, been in positions where,from a tactical skill
(14:26):
perspective, I had no businessbeing there.
Like I've stepped intoleadership roles where I didn't
have the skills and previouslythat made me self-conscious and
uncomfortable.
But now that I've gone throughit I'm like, oh, actually, maybe
it's okay to acknowledge that Idon't have those skills, but
here's the skills I do have,here's what I do possess, here's
what I know I'm capable of inhaving this simultaneous
(14:48):
knowledge of.
Here's maybe where I need tolearn and here's maybe what I
bring to the table and beingcomfortable with those things.
(14:56):
And I think that that has helped a lot.
I love what you just saidbecause one myth that I know I
have had to dispel in myselfgrowing up was this idea that I
had to fix myself before mydreams could come to fruition.
Somehow I had to reach thisperfection and have all the
(15:16):
answers, and it's taken years tounravel that.
So I love, and it's so true,that there are so many people in
all kinds of positions ofsuccess and power who are just
as insecure and have just asmany fears and so many moments
of not knowing.
But I do think there might be adistinction between how they
(15:40):
meet those moments.
So I'm curious for you in thosemoments of I'm unprepared for
this, I don't know what I'mdoing, how did you find the
courage or strength inside ofyou to rise up and meet that
challenge?
Arianne (15:56):
Yeah Well, I think I can say that I didn't always do
it gracefully.
I think I can say that I, overtime, have done it with
self-consciousness and reliedmore on intellect or cognitive
ability or analytics or whateveryou know, have fallen back on
things that are a little morehard and straightforward to kind
(16:17):
of muscle through.
And I think actually, as I'vebecome a higher level leader, as
I've matured in that leadershipability, it's become a lot more
vulnerable and it's become alot more real and a lot, in some
ways, a lot less polished,which actually I think works
better.
I think it's more relatable.
But I also I got to see youknow certain people in my life
(16:37):
who are leaders.
I got to see them demonstratethat and I got to feel what I
really gravitated toward andwhat was really attractive to me
, and I've just learned a lot bywatching and observing and then
reflecting on how that's mademe feel, and I've thought a lot
about how do I want to makeother people feel right?
And so part of that is alsoremoving yourself from it and
thinking I think we're I meanobviously we're also self
(16:59):
obsessed, because we'reconcerned about how others are
perceiving us and what are theygoing to think of me and then
you start to realize, well,that's maybe not what they're
thinking.
They're thinking how am I goingto make these people feel?
So I think that reframe and Ithink the ability to observe
others in those positions andmodel those behaviors and learn.
And I think early in my career Iwas a young female manager and
(17:22):
that brought a lot of selfconsciousness.
And I was joking with a friendrecently.
I was like there's this tippingpoint, from when you feel like
you're too young to lead,especially as a woman, you feel
like you're too young and thenall of a sudden it's like wait a
minute, maybe I'm not younganymore and we're joking about
that sweet spot and she's likeit's like an avocado.
A woman and a female leader islike an avocado and I was like
that's kind of dark.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You have like a week before you die.
Arianne (17:47):
Yeah, it's like now you're like still young enough
to be, you know, compelling, andthen you just start to tip and
so, anyway, that's a joke.
Don't think that's real.
But I do think.
Being young, I felt soconscious of that and I feel
like now I'm still young-ish,but I've been around the block.
I feel, you know, justinherently, a little more
confidence in the actual skillsand experience I have.
(18:08):
But I didn't always do it rightand it is a constant process of
watching and learning andmodeling and recognizing that
it's not all about me, andpeople care less about that.
They care about how you'regoing to make them feel, how you
support them.
What is it that you're going todo collectively versus just for
yourself?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's interesting because there's these themes
that I think come out, which itdoesn't surprise you, but I love
that it's happening of findingthe people that are showing you
how you want to be, like the wayin which you feel, where it
guides you towards these peopleand you're like okay, I love the
way that person leadsImperfectly and shows a little
bit of mess and is vulnerableand still holds authority, and
(18:44):
so therefore, it's possible.
I have proof.
(18:46):
Yeah, we need to see it, to believe it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Absolutely, and I always think that's one of the
first steps when you have adream, where you have a vision,
is go find somebody that hassome version of the thing that
you want, because you need toget your brain on board with the
fact that it's actuallypossible.
And then the other thing Ireally notice in your share is
the tactical, logical.
That side of things is like areal will call it a more
masculine way of approachingleadership.
(19:10):
Right, and I loved your shareof the evolution of well, I
relied on these like tangible,safe, black and white things,
and then I realized that I couldbe vulnerable, I could start to
embrace some of these traits ofCompassion and nurturing, and
we talked about the feminine alot on here.
It's not necessarily like Womanand man, but it's this energy to
embody and I think that is sucha sweet spot as a leader.
(19:33):
When you can bring those twoworlds together, it can be like
a total human.
And I'm curious because you'rein a very male dominated
industry.
So how is that been, being in amale dominated industry and to
kind of parlay it with theprevious thought and Learning to
simultaneously embrace the morefeminine sides of yourself
(19:53):
While being in a very maledominated industry.
What has that experience?
Arianne (19:57):
been like for you.
This is also been obviously ajourney and I would say Culture
has changed since the start ofmy career.
Yeah, I go back in time and Ireflect with one of my
girlfriends on our experienceright out of college and what
that was like and it was sonormalized then and I can't
believe it, like I can't believethat was my experience and I
work today with mostly a groupof men.
(20:19):
I work with some phenomenalwomen leaders as well, but my
peers today are mostly men and Ihave such a great environment
that I work in.
I feel so Supported.
There are those little momentsin time where I go Felt a little
weird, you know, but I feel sosupported and actually I didn't
realize that until most recently.
I went on this internationaltrip and was surrounded by Some
(20:40):
new people and had someexperiences where I was like, oh
shit, like this still, there'sstill some weird stuff out there
, but I'm grateful that I'msurrounded by a very supportive
male environment.
I still have these momentswhere I feel other.
There was a moment recently whenI hopped on to a call and I had
just come from I was Supportingour African-American ERG group
on a very traumatic experienceand I stepped into this call and
(21:03):
it was like all business.
This call was like talkingabout Monday results.
It was my turn to speak and Iwas choked up and I was like I'm
sorry, I was just on this othercall.
I was in tears so I kind ofjust muscled through it, right
or wrong.
But I took a moment first tosay hey, here's where I was,
here's what's going on, here'swhy there's a lot of emotion
right now.
And I got through the call.
And then at the end of it I hadone of our female VP's messaged
(21:25):
me and she said I could tellyou were really working hard to
get through that and she's likeI'm really grateful, I'm really
grateful that you showed up atthe same thing, and me also, is
like I appreciate when someonesays the thing they're thinking
and they say it out loud.
Yeah, it's a good lesson,because that meant so much to me
that she did that at any kindof self-consciousness.
I felt about stepping into thatenvironment, like she just
neutralized that, because I waslike if one person feels that
way, then I'm okay, I'm okay.
(21:46):
So there's a lot to that.
But the other thing I would saythat's been very powerful for
me in my career in maledominated businesses is humor,
and you know this.
I like we're so playful.
But humor is just the greatequalizer and I feel like I just
operate on this Expectationthat everybody is probably
trying to do their best,probably has the best intentions
(22:07):
, and I feel like if you canbring humor to it then you can
neutralize a lot of situations,right.
So if there's something where Ifeel a little out of sorts
about it or I feel a littleother, even humor there can, I
think, bring some levity to thesituation and allow you to
vocalize things that you knowCould be a little more difficult
otherwise.
So I really love humor as atool in business and in life and
(22:28):
just in general, you know.
So One way to deal with it.
(22:32):
Does it frustrate you that you have to deal with it at all,
though, that you need to havethose tools in your tool belt?
Arianne (22:39):
Of course.
However, I also recognize thatwe all have different lived
experiences.
I have empathy for the factthat you can only truly relate
to your own lived experience,and so I think a lot about the
circumstances of the peoplearound me, my peers.
I just think a lot of them areoperating with the best intent
possible and as long as I feellike that intention is there,
then like, I think we moveforward on that basis right,
(23:01):
like we can't necessarily bedisappointed that someone has
only lived in a certain body ina certain way.
That's just what it is.
(23:07):
So it's how do we move forward together, you know, yeah
, to me it seems like there'sthis innate and very natural
confidence to you.
You have such a deepself-awareness and seem to
really lean in and Trust yournatural abilities and your
skills, and you have all thesupport and all these wonderful
friendships around you.
What do you feel your biggestlife lesson has been?
(23:30):
If we get into that self-doubtpiece, yeah, what is the thing
that just gnaws at you thatyou're still working through.
Arianne (23:36):
So Mo mentioned chief right, so being a part of a peer
network, and then I also hadthe opportunity to do some
executive coaching within thelast year or so, and so We've
talked a little bit aboutconfidence and all that.
But one of the areas ofopportunity that I've learned a
lot about in the last year hasbeen, like I'm naturally, I'm a
pleaser, I'm an achiever and I'ma pleaser, and so those things
(24:00):
have been great fuel For success.
You know, quote unquote butthey also drive behaviors around
busyness and efficiency andperformance.
And Up until like literally ayear ago, I would emphasize
those qualities in myself, likejust this, like drive and
efficiency, and that wasultimate value to me.
(24:23):
It was like that's the valueequation, this achievement, this
performance, like that's what Ibring to the table.
And then the funny thing is Ilook at my relationship with my
husband, for example.
That's not what he values aboutme.
You reflect on like well, whatare the people in my inner
circle care the most about me?
Like, actually it's not thesethings that I think are my most
Valuable attributes.
And so I went into this processof coaching and I took on a
(24:45):
coach because theoretically Iwanted to grow my Executive
presence and my ability toinfluence in business, whatever.
But I also felt my pull towardthis specific coach in this
person, in a very intuitive kindof like heart led way.
So I sat down with hervirtually for this first
coaching session and she waslike all right, I want you to
sit in your body, I'm gonna sitin stillness.
(25:05):
And I want you to sit in yourbody, man, like I'm here to
accelerate.
And she's like, yeah, maybe youshould just sit in silence,
shout out, lizzie Alberg, and so, and learning that still.
(25:20):
What did that do for you?
What did that do?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Oh, freaked me out so weird.
Arianne (25:26):
And first I was like hey, Can I like sit still but
also like kick ass Officially,like I still.
I'm still trying to reconcile.
But it was this beautiful newphilosophy and I know you talk
about this a lot but thisbeautiful new philosophy
Actually it's not always a push.
In that stillness, in thatsilence, actually, that's maybe
where you'll gain the most valueand self-reflection.
(25:48):
And listen, I'm saying this butI'm like still trying to
believe it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It's a real well again.
It's the proof right, and Istill even though I've had a lot
of proof and I actually have alot of vision holders in my life
that show me that they can leadin this more feminine way and
you can create spaciousness,because I'm also a super high
achiever like love doing andJust makes one of all my
spreadsheets.
I am an executor extraordinaryand Bringing that part in has
(26:16):
been one of the mostuncomfortable and valuable
things that I have ever startedto integrate into my life and
it's a total rewiring of yournervous system to feel safe in
the slowness, to feel safe inthe non doing, to rewrite those
deeply rooted beliefs that myvalue is in my Productivity, my
accomplishments, achievement, mytitle, yeah, yeah, and that's
(26:38):
just the way our culture is.
Our culture is like achieve,achieve, achieve and that's what
makes you lovable.
And I think men and women arecraving a rewrite of that story
and I really know that women arecraving a rewrite of that story
of what else actually gives memy value and it's like, well, I
don't even have to do anythingfor that, like that is a non
earning thing.
(26:57):
I've sort of already answered it, because I was interested
when you were talking about yourdefault kind of going into the
kind of masculine type, aanalytical side in confronting
challenges at work.
I was going to ask whethersurrendering or leaning into the
, you know, like Melissa said,we know it's not masculine,
feminine in terms of gender, butthe feminine energy, that more
(27:19):
surrendered energy, or yoursofter energy, letting yourself
cry right, your empathy, yeah,has that also been a challenge
in your personal life?
Has that been like a similar,like a parallel journey for you
privately as well as in yourwork, or did you sort of have
this separation between the tworealms?
Arianne (27:37):
Yeah, I actually think the surrender and the stillness
are great value adds to mypersonal life and or would be
even greater to lean into thoseLike I think about in my
marriage, in my relationships.
It's a very powerful placewhere those things matter, right
.
I think they matter in theworkplace too, right.
(27:58):
I think for people to see youhave the capacity to do that and
to lead with that is worthwhileand allows other people the
freedom to do it.
But I think that I've just inthe past undervalued it and when
I reflect on my personal lifeand my relationships there that
go, go, go and that crush it,it's like no that's not really
(28:18):
what's going to add value anddepth in those places, right?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So I think that's an ongoing exercise to say how do I
bring that, how do I practicethat and how do I think about
the value that adds at home,when I think it's always so
interesting because and this iswhat I always find in the body
of work I do with my clients isI get to be this person here and
I get to be this person hereand this is work me and this is
home me and this is this, andthere can be such a disconnect.
(28:42):
I think this is where a lot ofanxiety lies in certain parts of
me are not okay and certainparts of me have to be hidden,
and I think the thing that Ilove the most and this is
something I've personallyexperienced is a softening into
the strength, and thevulnerability becomes the
superpower when donethoughtfully.
You know you're not just goingto come in and like a puddle of
(29:03):
yourself everywhere you go right, but when you allow yourself,
when you're having those moments, to actually say the thing and
you might be the first personanyone has ever seen do that,
that, I think, is a superpowerof women.
We have this innate ability tohave the feelings, to be
compassionate and the more inwhich we can converge our
(29:23):
personal self with our work selfand be a whole woman everywhere
.
I feel like that.
That is the dream.
Personally, and as I washearing you talk, you're like,
well, I could do this at home,and it was even like you were
separating them, even in the wayin which you described it,
which is perfectly normal.
But are there other parts thatyou're like I can't actually
bring this to work.
This is a totally separate partof me that has to be hidden.
Arianne (29:46):
I feel less and less that way and I think also
because our work lives havestarted to blend into our home
lives and there's no longer awall, and so I think that, plus
aging into it and having amaturity of leadership and
feeling more comfortable andconfident with that, I think
it's also it brings me to tears.
I like one thing I'll just sayI'm an easy crier and like I'm
fine with that, but I am overlysensitive for my past personal
(30:08):
narrative.
But like, actually I reallylike to own that.
So you were like bringing me totears with that because it just
felt so moved by it.
And I think that, more and more,the realization that empathy
and vulnerability aresuperpowers is so important.
And I think, yes, like womeninnately possess those
capabilities, and I also feellike we need to empower and
enable men to possess thosecapabilities because they are
(30:29):
capable of it.
I'm a huge feminist and a partof that is empowering men to be
themselves as well, and I thinkthat that's the flip side too.
It is like we need to allowwomen to be themselves and we
need to allow men to bethemselves, and men have been so
hindered by this version ofmasculinity that doesn't allow
for vulnerability and empathy.
So to me it's like, yes, howcan we, as women, show up and
(30:50):
demonstrate that superpower andhow can we also welcome and
invite that and create a culturewhere masculinity is also
inclusive of those values?
And that's the flip side of itand that's where I think, if we
only focus on women having thatsuperpower, we diminish men's
capability to live these full,rich lives and also for all of
(31:10):
us to then rise together.
But I think that more and morevulnerability and empathy are
like absolutely the mostimportant forms of connection
across any of our relationships,any physical spaces we exist.
But I love your observationthat like, yeah, making this
distinction, there's this selfand here's that self, and more
and more I'm hoping to movetoward a space where, you know,
(31:30):
within some bounds of course,but you are pretty.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I feel like you're super playful, at least I mean
the pictures you sent me fromwork, like you bringing that
playful spirit, you're nottrying to be like this buttoned
up black suit.
You wear your cute white dressand your Nike shoes and you're
showing up on stage in a verydifferent way.
What was the conference youspoke at?
Arianne (31:50):
It was at the National Retail Federation.
So she wears.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I mean I love that you showed up in your
authenticity, because I wear myearrings and my colors and all
the things, and I love that youbring your own style and your
own flair and you're not tryingto do the black suit thing and
and like fit into that box.
And so I think even in that wayyou're showing up in a
different way than maybe we'veseen other leaders show up.
Arianne (32:14):
And you know what I found?
Actually, I have a hilariousgift I'm going to show you from
this past weekend after this,because it's a photo of it was a
boomerang and it's me and thesefour or five guys and they're
all in like a black polo and I'min the front of the screen
dress.
None of them are booming, bythe way, when the boomerang goes
and I'm like doing this and Ifeel like more and more, though
I think if you show up like that, I think it's welcomed.
(32:35):
Like I think, if you're in the right.
Arianne (32:36):
I mean obviously not in every environment, but more and
more.
It's like if you're willing todo that and be the one to just
kind of bust that up like Ithink it's welcomed and invited
and I think within likerespectful boundaries, like you
can do that and actually likereally make things more fun for
everyone, right?
So that's my part of myambition right now is to show up
like that and again back tolike humor and fun and all of us
(32:57):
want to have more joy, sofinding ways to do that.
(33:01):
But going back to leadership, so much of leadership is how
you show up, because you aresetting the tone and you're
setting the standard right.
So you bringing authenticityand play and humor and empathy
gives permission to everybodyelse to show up that way as well
.
Yeah.
Arianne (33:18):
Yeah, and I work in a business where it's very metrics
focused.
We're driving results, they'remeasurable, and I think I
previously thought you couldn'ttake that seriously.
Like you know, I want to beserious about my job.
I want you to know I'm here towin, I'm here to drive the
outcomes and I used to feel like, okay, if the outcomes aren't
there, if results are bad, thenI got to come with a seriousness
(33:41):
that shows my intent to reallydrive results Right, and I think
there's somewhat of thissoftening of realization of like
yes, and like I can be seriousabout my job, I can be serious
about outcomes and I can also befun and playful and we can all
do that together, right.
(33:54):
I also think people respond more and work harder in
environments where they feelsafe and seen and supported and
authentic, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And I love that you just referred to the, and I mean
I literally have like in myoffice.
Arianne (34:10):
This was a yes and environment.
I knew I was in a yes and placemy and yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Because it's not black and white and it's not
this or that I mean.
Certainly there arecircumstances where that's
that's true, but so much of lifeis yes, and I can be a great
mom and have massive careeraspirations, I can take my job
seriously and infuse it with somuch fun and play Like there's
so much and, and I think when wecan really embody that in our
(34:35):
being, it expands possibilities.
John often is my husband islike well, it's, this is either
going to go this way or it'sgoing to go this way, and I'm
like or or.
What about this way?
You know, like what about that?
(34:49):
You know all the other possibilities.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
And I want to tie that into I know we've talked
about this before of havingthese career aspirations and
being a mom of two littles.
Mom guilt is a real thing, andso I'm curious how you navigate
that world of and with whatyou're up to in the world and
having those sweet babies.
Arianne (35:10):
I'm about to enter a whole new phase of this right
now.
I think I've dealt with thisthrough my career and then now
I'm stepping into an even biggerjob and there's travel.
There's like some commitment toit, but I'm also so excited for
it and I cannot wait to do it,and so yes, and both right.
So, I've had a few phases ofthis throughout my experience
and I think number one I wish Ihad the how but I feel like I've
(35:34):
learned to give myself a lot ofgrace around the things that
don't matter.
That's like when we're on thetext chain and everyone has
these fabulous Valentine's thatthey're making with their kids
and I'm like, oh my God, like mykids' Valentine's are going to
look like shit.
They are going to look likethey don't have a mother.
Because I've been traveling fortwo weeks and so I bought a box
of Valentine's and said, putsome names on these, right?
(35:55):
But honestly, I truly,genuinely, don't feel attached
to that.
I don't feel self-consciousabout it.
I make it a joke because it isfunny and it helps me cut, like
that's how I deal with it.
But I think I give myself a lotof grace around imperfection,
on the things that don't matter,and have to constantly remind
myself of, like you know,talking about priorities, what
matters and none of that shitmatters.
(36:16):
My daughter's hair lookingcrazy all the time because I'm
not the one dressing her and shewent through a homeless phase.
She's out in the world.
She's so cute, she's the cutestlittle girl.
She's on the world looking likeshit because she's so cute.
I'm not always there to get herdressed in the morning and
brush her hair, but that doesn'tmatter.
I also bring in a lot of help.
I have the most supportivehusband in the world.
(36:37):
I have parents who have beenwilling to live nearby and I've
hired people to help and I don'thave any shame in that.
I think sometimes people lookat having extended daycare and
having a nanny or an au pair andthey think, oh, that person
must not value or prioritizetheir children.
Well, actually I want themsurrounded by a network of
people who love them and careabout them and can create an
environment where they're goingto thrive.
(36:58):
If that support system helps mespend 20 more minutes every day
side by side with them insteadof doing something else, then
it's worth it.
I think outsourcing again aprivilege, but outsourcing and
not feeling guilty about thatand recognizing that other
people may perceive itdifferently and they may judge
that I've just got to be okaywith the value that it adds to
(37:18):
my life.
Then I think also thinkingabout my own feelings versus my
children's feelings.
Am I feeling guilt because Ifeel a certain way, but actually
they're fine.
Yeah, it's a big one.
Centering it around, because Ican handle my own guilt and I've
got to handle that with myself.
If it's their feelings, wellthen I'm going to behave
differently and I'm going tomake a different decision and
(37:39):
I'm going to give up somethingfrom my job or whatever it is.
I'll sacrifice that.
(37:43):
Has anything ever come up with them where they have
expressed something that you'vehad to adjust to?
Arianne (37:48):
I think we're still very early days for them having
an awareness of what this means.
Recently my son asked I thinkit was their parents in the
classroom for something and Iwasn't there and he asked about
that.
That, I think, is going tobecome more and more of a topic.
There are certainly businesstrips where I've said I'm sorry,
(38:11):
I can't be there and I've hadto learn who I'm going to
disappoint.
In that instance I've had toaccept that that could be to the
detriment of my job.
That's that we're discerning.
I'm pretty discerning aboutwhen I make each of those
decisions.
There are moments that I don'twant to miss and I think I'll
(38:31):
experience more and more of thatwhere I've got to make a
decision around a careersacrifice versus kid's sacrifice
.
(38:37):
Something I'm really struck by in you that I think is really
powerful.
It's a big lesson for me, a bigexample that you set around not
compromising yourself.
You spoke about being supportedby your parents in a way where
they were holding you, butwithout the parameters or the
boxes.
We're talking about the yesanding.
You have been able to allowyourself to be all the different
(39:01):
parts of yourself that you areand the boundaries you have in
friendships and in the way thatyou are not compromising in your
dreams and in the way that youare not compromising around your
family.
It seems like you have thisheightened awareness of what you
need and what you desire andit's like you're not making any
room for the outside world tocome in and infiltrate that or
(39:25):
take any piece of that away fromyou.
You have to negotiate it, I'msure, in your own life, on a
daily basis.
You know, in your familynetwork all the time, but you're
so boundary, I think, in areally healthy way, thank you.
Arianne (39:41):
That makes me cry.
Thank you, I also want to ownthat because I think I
appreciate that Obviously that'sa lot of that is true.
I also feel just very gratefulto be within the support system
and somewhat in the supportsystem I've created somewhat in
the support system that I'm justgrateful to have, and I think
I've mentioned my husband.
(40:01):
But what I didn't realize untillater in life is that your
partner or your spouse orwhomever, is the most important
career decision you can make,and obviously we all know it's
the most important life decisionyou make.
But I also just want toacknowledge that confidence to
move in those ways and notcompromise, is also underpinned
by massive support that noteveryone has and that I don't
(40:22):
take for granted.
Sometimes I think I feel alittle bit of selfishness in
that too, because it's like well, I have these big career
ambitions and I also want to bea mom, and so I don't know, I
think I just I appreciate yourcomments so much and I want to
own that, and then Isimultaneously want to say
there's also always this layerof like am I taking too much?
Sure, like, great, I get to bethis whole person and that's the
(40:43):
life I want to live.
But yeah, that's maybe.
The doubt I live with is like,am I taking too much?
Am I asking too much?
That's such a big, it's such abig one, I might have to go cry.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
It's a really big one , and I think we have this
language around selfishness andwhat is and isn't right.
(41:01):
Her society.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And then there is this you know, one of the things
you said and I think about thisoften is who am I going to
disappoint?
Them or me, right?
And it?
Even your family?
Is you, right?
My children is me.
And so so often I think whathappens and we over extend
ourselves is like why can'tdisappoint them?
I have to do the homemadeValentine's, because what if
they don't know?
(41:23):
It's like right, okay, well,what if I disappoint me?
And I know it's not that blackand white, but there becomes
this point of where am Iconstantly choosing to
disappoint myself and put myselfon the back burner?
And in order to make sure thateveryone else is taking care?
of all the time, and it's abalancing act, for sure, but I
really noticed that too when youwere speaking about the
(41:44):
disappointment.
(41:46):
There's something that I like to call enlightened selfishness
.
We love that we have to haveour own needs met.
Our tank has to be full inorder to show up more fully and
more presently in all of thesedifferent areas of our lives.
You know and I think, a lot ofthe world, it's like we reward
(42:06):
self-sacrifice or we think thatit's so noble, we revere it in
some way, and I don't actuallythink that we can show up and
actually serve at our highestcapacity if we are compromised.
One million percent it actuallyfeels like inauthentic giving
and that we can actually give so, so much more in a much, much
(42:29):
bigger way when our foundation,the foundation of our lives, is
thriving and joyful and abundant.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, and that's the end, right the end yeah, you can
fill your own bucket and it'snot like a win-lose right.
It's like just because I'mtaking care of my own needs
doesn't mean everyone else ismissing out.
It's like they're actuallygetting a way kick-ass better
version of me.
I can show up as a way bettermom, I can show up as a way
better leader and I think that'sthe story is like the win-lose
(42:59):
right.
(42:59):
And while your kids are now going to have examples of people
who are not compromising theirdreams, you know people who are
showing you that it's possibleto have all the ends, which is
such a gift, such permission forthem.
Arianne (43:13):
Yeah, yeah, I sit well in the studies or the narratives
of people whose children aregrown, who have had big lives,
and those children look back andgo like, yeah, I got this cool
example, I got this cool modelof what a parent could be.
I think there's a lot ofexamples of that and I think
that that gives me confidenceand hope for what's possible.
(43:37):
I think, at the core, if you'recreating an environment where
your kids are loved andsupported by you, by their
community, they're going to comethrough it and have some
confidence themselves.
(43:47):
Yeah, I know we have to wrap up, but I'm very interested in
asking this last question aroundyour formula for success, if
you could speak to.
I love these kinds of questionsLow attachment, high intention.
Arianne (44:00):
Low attachment.
High intention, low attachment.
Yeah, I'm glad you told me myformula.
I forgot to put that out there.
I was like, oh, shit.
Oh no, I'm going to think of it.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
I got to recreate.
Arianne (44:12):
I recently learned this and I think I've practiced it a
little bit and tried topractice it and then hearing it
articulated was so powerful.
So high intention, lowattachment.
I think that's just thisphilosophy that you're coming at
every experience, everychallenge with the best intent
and your best self andeverything you can give in terms
of what's possible, whilesimultaneously not attaching
(44:36):
yourself too much to thespecific outcome.
And I would say that even I'vetalked about my coaching
experience.
I came into that with so muchintention and the outcome was so
different.
Like I was going through somethings, I was exploring some
ideas.
I thought maybe there would bethis path that I would take as
an outcome and it was exactlythe opposite.
And I'm so grateful for thatright.
(44:56):
And had I been attached to onespecific outcome, maybe I
wouldn't be happy.
Maybe you know what I mean IfI'd have the outcome, maybe, but
would I be happy?
Would it be right?
Maybe not right.
And so I think, early in mycareer, my girlfriend Maureen,
she was coaching me because Iwas like really struggling and
she said stay engaged but takethe pressure off.
I was a new manager, I had tofire people.
(45:17):
I was so scared.
I just felt like thisconstriction in my throat
constantly.
I just felt like I don't thinkthis is for me, I don't think I
can do it.
And she said stay engaged andtake the pressure off.
And that was almost like theearly form of this right, which
is just like you can give iteverything you've got and have
high intention around what youwant it to be.
But almost like this, it's likea healthy detachment right.
(45:40):
Again, the outcome is notnecessarily like who I am right,
and so that, to me, keeps merooted in, like a learning
journey and an obsession and afixation with growth and
learning instead of specificoutcomes which often we can't
control.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
It's like a master manifestor's way of being
honestly Set the vision, set theintention, leave room for the
magic, follow your intuition asyou take action.
And I always like to say likethis or something better,
because who are we right?
Like you had your idea of whatyou're going into, the coaching,
and I find that almost 10 timesout of 10, when you go into a
coaching relationship, you'relike I need this thing.
(46:15):
And there you go like oh my God, I got this whole other thing
and you would know that it's me.
(46:19):
Like it's always you get exactly what you need and we
often don't even know what thatis To me it's just like let's
leave room for the magic rightand let's not be so graspy and
our brains are so limiting itdoesn't actually know how to
conceive of all that is possibleand so often it's conditioned
to believe all kinds ofdifferent ideas of what success
(46:39):
is supposed to look like,whatever the things that are
supposed to make us happy.
And so when we actually letthat go and move towards the
things that are bringing us joyor the excitement of an idea, it
just allows it to expand, likeI've told this to most of them
many, many times Like I didn'teven know what human design was
five years ago.
I never set out to do that,that was never a career goal of
(47:03):
mine in any way.
But just following this passionand this curiosity, something
unfolded in a direction that wasso much more in line with my
soul, that was so authentic tome that my brain would have
never been able to conceptualizefor itself.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Your brain would have gotten in the way.
Arianne (47:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
It would have derailed you.
I have one of my coaches, tracy, who has been on this podcast.
She's my somatic movement coachand at the end of every dance
we do she says what are yourdesires?
And you state your desires andshe has you go into your body
for the desires.
She's like, oh, what am I gonnado?
What does my brain want mydesire to be?
And then she always says and soit shall be beyond your wildest
(47:42):
dreams.
And I'm just feeling that inthis conversation it's like let
it be beyond your wildest dreams, yeah, why limit ourselves to
what our little human brain canconceptualize Like, let it be
that.
(47:54):
That seems like the perfect note to end on.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today.
You're so great to talk to.
Arianne (48:01):
This is the best.
Thank you, oh my gosh, you bothare so great.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
We should have helped each other the whole time.
Arianne (48:07):
We were holding hands.
We were holding hands.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
We should have done that.
We were holding hands.
Arianne (48:12):
It's a nice tight little setup.
Yeah, I really appreciate yourvulnerability and your
thoughtful answers today.
Oh my gosh, this was so fun.
Appreciate it.
Two hays to come, okay.
If you enjoy this episode, we would love it if you would
leave us a review, give us afollow or a like and share it
with your friends.
Thanks, rebels.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
This is the Inner Rebel podcast, so I wanted to
bring Arianne on because you'rea dear friend of mine and a
really inspiring mom andprofessional woman and what
(01:08):
you've been able to accomplishis incredible, and I know that
it takes a lot to get to whereyou have gotten, so I'm excited
to share you with our people.
So Arianne is a business leader.
She's a mom of two, a lover ofnature and a costume party
enthusiast.
Woo Facts it's very true.
(01:29):
She lives in Golden we live inthe same place and she has her
two children, sam and Quinn, andher extremely patient husband,
andrew.
He is so lovely.
Arianne leads the digitalstrategy and execution of a
multi-billion dollar retailbusiness and has recently
stepped into an executive globalleadership role, which we get
to celebrate today because thisis hot off the presses, and her
(01:51):
special talents includeimmaculate retention of every
90s hip-hop song lyric and theability to turn any party into a
dance party and it's very truethings.
Arianne (02:01):
Really valuable skills.
(02:03):
What was your favorite costume that you've ever worn?
Arianne (02:06):
Oh, my goodness, this is such a challenging question
and we only have an hour.
I would say the most fun for mehave been the family costume,
so my husband and I used to goreal hard at Halloween back
before we had kids, and so I hadsome really good ones then.
(02:20):
Is this how you know he was the one?
Arianne (02:22):
This was.
The defining moment in ourrelationship was when he dressed
up as the Kool-Aid man and camebusting into a party saying, oh
yeah, that's for me, that's forme, that's my guy.
That was my favorite costume heever wore, but I would say just
bringing it full circle to ourfamily.
So was it two years ago, yeah.
So we had this epic Halloweenparty as a neighborhood and we
(02:44):
dressed as Mary Poppins.
I was Mary Poppins, obviously,and then my children were like
street urchins.
They were the chimney sweeps.
My whole family was like coveredin, so I had this delightful
Mary Poppins costume, so I justloved like the family unit
together.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
I also have to say they were waist management,
which I thought is what you'regoing to say, and her little,
cutest little daughter in thewhole world was the inspiration
for the entire costume and shewas like a little rat.
Arianne (03:10):
She was a disgusting rat and it was.
That costume was because shewanted to be a rat.
She was four years old andwe're like Quinn, what do you
want to be?
And her best friend, grace, isBelle from Beauty and the Beast
and all these darling littleprincesses and she's like nah,
I'm going to be a rat.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
She was a good rat too, it was a great rat Really
good, big, long tail, filthylittle picture.
Arianne (03:29):
Yeah, that was a good one.
So we were a trash family.
We were a family of trashbandits that year.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
And this is what it takes to be an executive woman
in the corporate world, keepingit real.
(03:41):
We have a question that we like to start out asking our
guests, because it's one thingto hear your bio and all of the
things that you've accomplished,but I'm interested in how you
see yourself and how you seeyour journey.
So can you tell us who are youand how is that different from
(04:01):
who you maybe thought or weretold you were supposed to be?
Arianne (04:05):
Let me just say there's a game that some of my
girlfriends and I play and it'show do I see you, how do you see
yourself, how do you want to beseen?
And it's like among the mostvulnerable and revealing games,
and it requires so much selfreflection and it also then
requires your friends to playback to you how they see you.
And so this question is both sodeep for me and important and
(04:26):
also so challenging.
But I've, you know, done a lotof self reflection over time and
thought about this a lot, and Ithink I see myself as a person
who's dynamically on the path tobecoming the same, but a better
version, and just a constantevolution and work in progress,
and generally someone who justhas a lot of enthusiasm and zest
for life, even for things likework, like my work is a big part
(04:47):
of my life and that's because Igenuinely love it, which is
kind of weird.
A lot of things lighten me up,so that's the costumes.
(04:53):
And then that shell, yes, yes .
Arianne (04:55):
And I think we all have such unique you know the
circumstances of our childhood,obviously formulator self
concept.
So I was an only child.
I grew up in Alaska.
My mom was a teacher and then alibrarian, my dad was a
geologist and engineer.
I kind of had a uniqueexistence in that space.
I think Alaska like there arevery few social norms there that
are the same as they are here.
(05:16):
That's probably changed now.
But the connectivity of lifethere it's isolated, there's no
private school, there's nocountry club, there's no people
wearing monograms.
You show up differently thereand so I think I sometimes
undervalue maybe what that didFor my experience because
socially there was just a verydifferent mindset and I think
(05:37):
there's also a unique type ofperson who was up there.
Right, my parents.
They weren't born there, theywent there seeking adventure and
just wanted this life.
That was unique and different.
I think I sometimes undervaluethat.
I don't think about it thatmuch because we all just had our
own existence and you know.
But if I reflect on mychildhood and who I was supposed
to be, what's actually prettycool is I feel like I've
contemplated this and I cannotfeel that there was a projection
(06:00):
to say that this is who you areand this is what we expect of
you.
That's great.
Shout out mom, dad.
That persisted through.
Like my journey of who Ithought I was going to be high
school to college, to earlycareer vacillated quite a bit,
like I look at myself now inthis very capitalist executive
role.
And when I came out of collegeI was like I'm going to work for
(06:22):
a nonprofit.
I studied organizationalcommunication.
I had all of these differentkind of opinions of who I would
be and literally I feel like myparents were like okay, okay.
No no no, Like all right, I wentto school in upstate New York.
I went really far away.
I studied in Europe.
I mean, I was our only child.
I think of this now as a parent.
It was never about them.
It was never about theirexpectations.
It was like okay, well, we'rehere for you, you know.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
And I want to actually interject something too
, because I think so often itcan be their fears.
The projection can be the fears, right.
Like oh my child's going so faraway.
I'm scared.
So, therefore, I'm going to putthat over on you right so.
I also.
It seems like they did afantastic job of not putting.
If they had them, which I'msure you know, you're a parent
of course you have them, but notmaking it yours Right, and I
(07:05):
think as a child you cannot evencontemplate or understand what
fears your parents might have.
Arianne (07:09):
No, you don't grasp it right.
I had no sense that they mightbe uncomfortable if I didn't
call for several weeks while Iwas in Europe, and then there
was nothing that was encroachingon the sides to say like well,
here are your parameters, here'syour box right, and I can just
say the concept of who I wasgoing to become.
Generally, I felt like I wasallowed to forge a path and just
become whatever would be right,and that's an interesting theme
(07:30):
too, the support theme.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
right, this is like a segue, but we talk about safety
and being with safe people.
I would say I give you shit,but you're discerning and you
have a good spidey sense aboutpeople and you can tell when
somebody feels safe or not.
What are your thoughts on thelevel of support that you've
been able to accept and have andcontinue to cultivate?
Arianne (07:52):
Yeah, I think I simultaneously have support that
I've taken for granted and Ithink starting with parents
right Like being a little child,you kind of just get it right.
In the areas of my life whereI'm closest to people I've
willingly accepted support andmaybe even expected it unduly
just to be real, and havewillingly received that.
Sometimes, in extending the askfor support to a broader
(08:15):
network, I've had discomfortwith that and I've learned a lot
actually even from theneighborhood network here,
watching the relationshipsbetween people and the ease to
like ask for help in the mostsimple ways and that has taught
me a lot and seeing this groupof women who so easily and
willingly supports one anotherin a way that's very generous.
(08:36):
There's not an expectation ofreciprocity, it's almost that
will come around in due time,right, and so I think I am still
learning a lot about communityand what that means.
(08:46):
What taught you to be discerning?
Have you always been that way,yeah, or did you have to learn
the hard?
Arianne (08:51):
way.
No.
What has taught me to bediscerning has been, I would say
, I've been very lucky toexperience some friendships that
are incredibly powerful, and Iwould say there's a couple of
defining qualities about thepeople who I've found really
tight friendships with, andthose people are very secure in
themselves.
So I would say like a sense ofself-awareness and security, and
(09:14):
then, second to that, theability to self-reflect the
people who are able toself-reflect, and I think I've
always had some very deepfriendships.
But honestly, I think, likeCOVID and 2020 and then the
simultaneous acceleration of mycareer, those things in
intersection have beenincredibly powerful, because
COVID was the ultimate edit.
It was like, you know, you hadto really hone in on these
(09:38):
relationships that were specialand precious and lean into them,
and I really love that.
And then I think, as my careerhas accelerated and I've felt
the depth of some of these veryimportant friendships, I've kind
of been like I'm going toreserve space for the most
important things and the thingsthat are the most valuable, and
I think in our lives, like theability to prioritize and edit
and give attention to the thingsthat bring the most value.
(10:01):
That lesson applies over andover and over again.
And so, in friendships beingdiscerning, I have been
fortunate enough to experiencefriendships of great depth and
incredible meaning and have thenbeen like, yeah, I'm just going
to have more of that.
Like I just, I'd rather justhave more of that.
Right, give me more of that,I'd like that.
Yeah, so I think those thingshave really contributed.
Speaker 2 (10:22):
Well, I'm curious when did you start identifying
as a leader?
And I know there's an evolutionalways with that, but I'm
curious is that something thatyou grew up, having that
identity, or is that somethingthat you've evolved into as
you've progressed in life?
Arianne (10:37):
Yeah, I think I had two key traits growing up that were
somewhat self-identified, andthen also I had these formative
experiences that identified them, maybe showed them to me, and
they're kind of conflictingtraits.
So the first was just likeinnate natural leadership, and
the other was that I was overlysensitive.
I had this narrative from myfamily and my mom's theory was I
(10:58):
had a traumatic birth and sothat made me overly sensitive,
apparently that's.
There's a correlation, pause,she's a reflector, a reflector.
Yeah, so that's why oh wow,y'all can tell me more about
what that means.
I just I know it.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
I'm still learning, jess is going to dive into that,
but I wanted to answer thatbecause I know Jess's head is
going to be like okay, great,I'm excited to hear about that.
(11:18):
I don't know if we have time to dive into that right now, but
we don't.
I'm going to be here all night.
Arianne (11:22):
So, yeah, I had this innate leadership and the overly
sensitive part.
I remember one time as a kidfinding this report card and
they had asked for parentfeedback and my mom had called
me extremely sensitive and whenI read that I cried no, I'm not
Cause.
I was like I'm not toosensitive and like I cried so,
okay, very, very sensitive,which I think has evolved over
time.
I do feel deeply feeling, but Ifeel very level in the way I
(11:45):
express my emotion, but I do, Ithink, have a sensitivity to my
own emotion and maybe to othersemotions.
And then the second part of itis just the leadership piece is.
I actually don't even remembera moment in time where I didn't
feel like a leader.
I have never had any challengeor question or thought of that.
(12:02):
But what does that mean to you?
What does it feel like to be aleader?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
Oh, we don't exist in the surface in this
conversation.
Arianne (12:09):
Yeah, it feels like a deep sense of confidence and
willingness to set a path.
Not at all that I necessarilyhave all the answers, but I have
the confidence and ability tomove in a direction and to rally
people toward that direction.
I think like my definition ofleadership and the leader I want
to be and the leader I hope tobe in.
(12:30):
The leader I think I am is verymuch about collectivism and
being able to face the fear orthe trepidation of taking the
first step right and bringothers along with me.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And how has that?
Because obviously now you'reliterally a global leader and
I'm curious what are some of thethings you've had to overcome
to step into that level ofleadership?
So what are some of the thingsthat, on your journey to the top
, what are you navigating insideof your own mind?
Arianne (12:59):
First, I would say that the journey is ongoing and I
think you obviously know that.
But I think my early perceptionwas you practice it, you gain
the skills, you get to thisplace and you look up at that
place and you go, oh, they'vemastered it.
and mastery must feel sodifferent and I think the number
one thing I would say is thaton a daily basis, I'm doing
things.
Now that would have seemed soscary, and sometimes they are
(13:21):
still scary, and I think I wouldjust dispel the myth that you
get to this place and all of asudden don't have the self-doubt
.
I think that's one of the mostimportant realizations is that
we all live with it constantlyand if you don't, maybe you're
not being very self-reflective,right, because to me that's a
part of awareness is like, ofcourse, I always had more room
for growth.
I think that self-doubt isongoing.
I think that practice lendsitself to something.
(13:41):
You become more comfortable insituations that previously gave
you anxiety.
I think also like realizing thehumanness of everyone around
you, other leaders, like now.
I've had practice being in roomswith people who are very well
established, very successful,they have really high positions
of power, and I'm like the moreexposure we get to that, the
more you're like oh, these arejust people, I'm this person, I
(14:05):
am these people, right, and soit's acclimating to the
normalness of humans and humannature and really just rooting
ourselves in our similaritiesand that and that, I think, has
made it for me a lot lessintimidating has removed some
self-doubt has given me comfortand I think also I've now, as a
leader, been in positions where,from a tactical skill
(14:26):
perspective, I had no businessbeing there.
Like I've stepped intoleadership roles where I didn't
have the skills and previouslythat made me self-conscious and
uncomfortable.
But now that I've gone throughit I'm like, oh, actually, maybe
it's okay to acknowledge that Idon't have those skills, but
here's the skills I do have,here's what I do possess, here's
what I know I'm capable of inhaving this simultaneous
(14:48):
knowledge of.
Here's maybe where I need tolearn and here's maybe what I
bring to the table and beingcomfortable with those things.
(14:56):
And I think that that has helped a lot.
I love what you just saidbecause one myth that I know I
have had to dispel in myselfgrowing up was this idea that I
had to fix myself before mydreams could come to fruition.
Somehow I had to reach thisperfection and have all the
(15:16):
answers, and it's taken years tounravel that.
So I love, and it's so true,that there are so many people in
all kinds of positions ofsuccess and power who are just
as insecure and have just asmany fears and so many moments
of not knowing.
But I do think there might be adistinction between how they
(15:40):
meet those moments.
So I'm curious for you in thosemoments of I'm unprepared for
this, I don't know what I'mdoing, how did you find the
courage or strength inside ofyou to rise up and meet that
challenge?
Arianne (15:56):
Yeah Well, I think I can say that I didn't always do
it gracefully.
I think I can say that I, overtime, have done it with
self-consciousness and reliedmore on intellect or cognitive
ability or analytics or whateveryou know, have fallen back on
things that are a little morehard and straightforward to kind
(16:17):
of muscle through.
And I think actually, as I'vebecome a higher level leader, as
I've matured in that leadershipability, it's become a lot more
vulnerable and it's become alot more real and a lot, in some
ways, a lot less polished,which actually I think works
better.
I think it's more relatable.
But I also I got to see youknow certain people in my life
(16:37):
who are leaders.
I got to see them demonstratethat and I got to feel what I
really gravitated toward andwhat was really attractive to me
, and I've just learned a lot bywatching and observing and then
reflecting on how that's mademe feel, and I've thought a lot
about how do I want to makeother people feel right?
And so part of that is alsoremoving yourself from it and
thinking I think we're I meanobviously we're also self
(16:59):
obsessed, because we'reconcerned about how others are
perceiving us and what are theygoing to think of me and then
you start to realize, well,that's maybe not what they're
thinking.
They're thinking how am I goingto make these people feel?
So I think that reframe and Ithink the ability to observe
others in those positions andmodel those behaviors and learn.
And I think early in my career Iwas a young female manager and
(17:22):
that brought a lot of selfconsciousness.
And I was joking with a friendrecently.
I was like there's this tippingpoint, from when you feel like
you're too young to lead,especially as a woman, you feel
like you're too young and thenall of a sudden it's like wait a
minute, maybe I'm not younganymore and we're joking about
that sweet spot and she's likeit's like an avocado.
A woman and a female leader islike an avocado and I was like
that's kind of dark.
Speaker 2 (17:45):
You have like a week before you die.
Arianne (17:47):
Yeah, it's like now you're like still young enough
to be, you know, compelling, andthen you just start to tip and
so, anyway, that's a joke.
Don't think that's real.
But I do think.
Being young, I felt soconscious of that and I feel
like now I'm still young-ish,but I've been around the block.
I feel, you know, justinherently, a little more
confidence in the actual skillsand experience I have.
(18:08):
But I didn't always do it rightand it is a constant process of
watching and learning andmodeling and recognizing that
it's not all about me, andpeople care less about that.
They care about how you'regoing to make them feel, how you
support them.
What is it that you're going todo collectively versus just for
yourself?
Speaker 2 (18:23):
It's interesting because there's these themes
that I think come out, which itdoesn't surprise you, but I love
that it's happening of findingthe people that are showing you
how you want to be, like the wayin which you feel, where it
guides you towards these peopleand you're like okay, I love the
way that person leadsImperfectly and shows a little
bit of mess and is vulnerableand still holds authority, and
(18:44):
so therefore, it's possible.
I have proof.
(18:46):
Yeah, we need to see it, to believe it.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Absolutely, and I always think that's one of the
first steps when you have adream, where you have a vision,
is go find somebody that hassome version of the thing that
you want, because you need toget your brain on board with the
fact that it's actuallypossible.
And then the other thing Ireally notice in your share is
the tactical, logical.
That side of things is like areal will call it a more
masculine way of approachingleadership.
(19:10):
Right, and I loved your shareof the evolution of well, I
relied on these like tangible,safe, black and white things,
and then I realized that I couldbe vulnerable, I could start to
embrace some of these traits ofCompassion and nurturing, and
we talked about the feminine alot on here.
It's not necessarily like Womanand man, but it's this energy to
embody and I think that is sucha sweet spot as a leader.
(19:33):
When you can bring those twoworlds together, it can be like
a total human.
And I'm curious because you'rein a very male dominated
industry.
So how is that been, being in amale dominated industry and to
kind of parlay it with theprevious thought and Learning to
simultaneously embrace the morefeminine sides of yourself
(19:53):
While being in a very maledominated industry.
What has that experience?
Arianne (19:57):
been like for you.
This is also been obviously ajourney and I would say Culture
has changed since the start ofmy career.
Yeah, I go back in time and Ireflect with one of my
girlfriends on our experienceright out of college and what
that was like and it was sonormalized then and I can't
believe it, like I can't believethat was my experience and I
work today with mostly a groupof men.
(20:19):
I work with some phenomenalwomen leaders as well, but my
peers today are mostly men and Ihave such a great environment
that I work in.
I feel so Supported.
There are those little momentsin time where I go Felt a little
weird, you know, but I feel sosupported and actually I didn't
realize that until most recently.
I went on this internationaltrip and was surrounded by Some
(20:40):
new people and had someexperiences where I was like, oh
shit, like this still, there'sstill some weird stuff out there
, but I'm grateful that I'msurrounded by a very supportive
male environment.
I still have these momentswhere I feel other.
There was a moment recently whenI hopped on to a call and I had
just come from I was Supportingour African-American ERG group
on a very traumatic experienceand I stepped into this call and
(21:03):
it was like all business.
This call was like talkingabout Monday results.
It was my turn to speak and Iwas choked up and I was like I'm
sorry, I was just on this othercall.
I was in tears so I kind ofjust muscled through it, right
or wrong.
But I took a moment first tosay hey, here's where I was,
here's what's going on, here'swhy there's a lot of emotion
right now.
And I got through the call.
And then at the end of it I hadone of our female VP's messaged
(21:25):
me and she said I could tellyou were really working hard to
get through that and she's likeI'm really grateful, I'm really
grateful that you showed up atthe same thing, and me also, is
like I appreciate when someonesays the thing they're thinking
and they say it out loud.
Yeah, it's a good lesson,because that meant so much to me
that she did that at any kindof self-consciousness.
I felt about stepping into thatenvironment, like she just
neutralized that, because I waslike if one person feels that
way, then I'm okay, I'm okay.
(21:46):
So there's a lot to that.
But the other thing I would saythat's been very powerful for
me in my career in maledominated businesses is humor,
and you know this.
I like we're so playful.
But humor is just the greatequalizer and I feel like I just
operate on this Expectationthat everybody is probably
trying to do their best,probably has the best intentions
(22:07):
, and I feel like if you canbring humor to it then you can
neutralize a lot of situations,right.
So if there's something where Ifeel a little out of sorts
about it or I feel a littleother, even humor there can, I
think, bring some levity to thesituation and allow you to
vocalize things that you knowCould be a little more difficult
otherwise.
So I really love humor as atool in business and in life and
(22:28):
just in general, you know.
So One way to deal with it.
(22:32):
Does it frustrate you that you have to deal with it at all,
though, that you need to havethose tools in your tool belt?
Arianne (22:39):
Of course.
However, I also recognize thatwe all have different lived
experiences.
I have empathy for the factthat you can only truly relate
to your own lived experience,and so I think a lot about the
circumstances of the peoplearound me, my peers.
I just think a lot of them areoperating with the best intent
possible and as long as I feellike that intention is there,
then like, I think we moveforward on that basis right,
(23:01):
like we can't necessarily bedisappointed that someone has
only lived in a certain body ina certain way.
That's just what it is.
(23:07):
So it's how do we move forward together, you know, yeah
, to me it seems like there'sthis innate and very natural
confidence to you.
You have such a deepself-awareness and seem to
really lean in and Trust yournatural abilities and your
skills, and you have all thesupport and all these wonderful
friendships around you.
What do you feel your biggestlife lesson has been?
(23:30):
If we get into that self-doubtpiece, yeah, what is the thing
that just gnaws at you thatyou're still working through.
Arianne (23:36):
So Mo mentioned chief right, so being a part of a peer
network, and then I also hadthe opportunity to do some
executive coaching within thelast year or so, and so We've
talked a little bit aboutconfidence and all that.
But one of the areas ofopportunity that I've learned a
lot about in the last year hasbeen, like I'm naturally, I'm a
pleaser, I'm an achiever and I'ma pleaser, and so those things
(24:00):
have been great fuel For success.
You know, quote unquote butthey also drive behaviors around
busyness and efficiency andperformance.
And Up until like literally ayear ago, I would emphasize
those qualities in myself, likejust this, like drive and
efficiency, and that wasultimate value to me.
(24:23):
It was like that's the valueequation, this achievement, this
performance, like that's what Ibring to the table.
And then the funny thing is Ilook at my relationship with my
husband, for example.
That's not what he values aboutme.
You reflect on like well, whatare the people in my inner
circle care the most about me?
Like, actually it's not thesethings that I think are my most
Valuable attributes.
And so I went into this processof coaching and I took on a
(24:45):
coach because theoretically Iwanted to grow my Executive
presence and my ability toinfluence in business, whatever.
But I also felt my pull towardthis specific coach in this
person, in a very intuitive kindof like heart led way.
So I sat down with hervirtually for this first
coaching session and she waslike all right, I want you to
sit in your body, I'm gonna sitin stillness.
(25:05):
And I want you to sit in yourbody, man, like I'm here to
accelerate.
And she's like, yeah, maybe youshould just sit in silence,
shout out, lizzie Alberg, and so, and learning that still.
(25:20):
What did that do for you?
What did that do?
Speaker 2 (25:23):
Oh, freaked me out so weird.
Arianne (25:26):
And first I was like hey, Can I like sit still but
also like kick ass Officially,like I still.
I'm still trying to reconcile.
But it was this beautiful newphilosophy and I know you talk
about this a lot but thisbeautiful new philosophy
Actually it's not always a push.
In that stillness, in thatsilence, actually, that's maybe
where you'll gain the most valueand self-reflection.
(25:48):
And listen, I'm saying this butI'm like still trying to
believe it.
Speaker 2 (25:52):
It's a real well again.
It's the proof right, and Istill even though I've had a lot
of proof and I actually have alot of vision holders in my life
that show me that they can leadin this more feminine way and
you can create spaciousness,because I'm also a super high
achiever like love doing andJust makes one of all my
spreadsheets.
I am an executor extraordinaryand Bringing that part in has
(26:16):
been one of the mostuncomfortable and valuable
things that I have ever startedto integrate into my life and
it's a total rewiring of yournervous system to feel safe in
the slowness, to feel safe inthe non doing, to rewrite those
deeply rooted beliefs that myvalue is in my Productivity, my
accomplishments, achievement, mytitle, yeah, yeah, and that's
(26:38):
just the way our culture is.
Our culture is like achieve,achieve, achieve and that's what
makes you lovable.
And I think men and women arecraving a rewrite of that story
and I really know that women arecraving a rewrite of that story
of what else actually gives memy value and it's like, well, I
don't even have to do anythingfor that, like that is a non
earning thing.
(26:57):
I've sort of already answered it, because I was interested
when you were talking about yourdefault kind of going into the
kind of masculine type, aanalytical side in confronting
challenges at work.
I was going to ask whethersurrendering or leaning into the
, you know, like Melissa said,we know it's not masculine,
feminine in terms of gender, butthe feminine energy, that more
(27:19):
surrendered energy, or yoursofter energy, letting yourself
cry right, your empathy, yeah,has that also been a challenge
in your personal life?
Has that been like a similar,like a parallel journey for you
privately as well as in yourwork, or did you sort of have
this separation between the tworealms?
Arianne (27:37):
Yeah, I actually think the surrender and the stillness
are great value adds to mypersonal life and or would be
even greater to lean into thoseLike I think about in my
marriage, in my relationships.
It's a very powerful placewhere those things matter, right
.
I think they matter in theworkplace too, right.
(27:58):
I think for people to see youhave the capacity to do that and
to lead with that is worthwhileand allows other people the
freedom to do it.
But I think that I've just inthe past undervalued it and when
I reflect on my personal lifeand my relationships there that
go, go, go and that crush it,it's like no that's not really
(28:18):
what's going to add value anddepth in those places, right?
Speaker 2 (28:21):
So I think that's an ongoing exercise to say how do I
bring that, how do I practicethat and how do I think about
the value that adds at home,when I think it's always so
interesting because and this iswhat I always find in the body
of work I do with my clients isI get to be this person here and
I get to be this person hereand this is work me and this is
home me and this is this, andthere can be such a disconnect.
(28:42):
I think this is where a lot ofanxiety lies in certain parts of
me are not okay and certainparts of me have to be hidden,
and I think the thing that Ilove the most and this is
something I've personallyexperienced is a softening into
the strength, and thevulnerability becomes the
superpower when donethoughtfully.
You know you're not just goingto come in and like a puddle of
(29:03):
yourself everywhere you go right, but when you allow yourself,
when you're having those moments, to actually say the thing and
you might be the first personanyone has ever seen do that,
that, I think, is a superpowerof women.
We have this innate ability tohave the feelings, to be
compassionate and the more inwhich we can converge our
(29:23):
personal self with our work selfand be a whole woman everywhere
.
I feel like that.
That is the dream.
Personally, and as I washearing you talk, you're like,
well, I could do this at home,and it was even like you were
separating them, even in the wayin which you described it,
which is perfectly normal.
But are there other parts thatyou're like I can't actually
bring this to work.
This is a totally separate partof me that has to be hidden.
Arianne (29:46):
I feel less and less that way and I think also
because our work lives havestarted to blend into our home
lives and there's no longer awall, and so I think that, plus
aging into it and having amaturity of leadership and
feeling more comfortable andconfident with that, I think
it's also it brings me to tears.
I like one thing I'll just sayI'm an easy crier and like I'm
fine with that, but I am overlysensitive for my past personal
(30:08):
narrative.
But like, actually I reallylike to own that.
So you were like bringing me totears with that because it just
felt so moved by it.
And I think that, more and more,the realization that empathy
and vulnerability aresuperpowers is so important.
And I think, yes, like womeninnately possess those
capabilities, and I also feellike we need to empower and
enable men to possess thosecapabilities because they are
(30:29):
capable of it.
I'm a huge feminist and a partof that is empowering men to be
themselves as well, and I thinkthat that's the flip side too.
It is like we need to allowwomen to be themselves and we
need to allow men to bethemselves, and men have been so
hindered by this version ofmasculinity that doesn't allow
for vulnerability and empathy.
So to me it's like, yes, howcan we, as women, show up and
(30:50):
demonstrate that superpower andhow can we also welcome and
invite that and create a culturewhere masculinity is also
inclusive of those values?
And that's the flip side of itand that's where I think, if we
only focus on women having thatsuperpower, we diminish men's
capability to live these full,rich lives and also for all of
(31:10):
us to then rise together.
But I think that more and morevulnerability and empathy are
like absolutely the mostimportant forms of connection
across any of our relationships,any physical spaces we exist.
But I love your observationthat like, yeah, making this
distinction, there's this selfand here's that self, and more
and more I'm hoping to movetoward a space where, you know,
(31:30):
within some bounds of course,but you are pretty.
Speaker 2 (31:36):
I feel like you're super playful, at least I mean
the pictures you sent me fromwork, like you bringing that
playful spirit, you're nottrying to be like this buttoned
up black suit.
You wear your cute white dressand your Nike shoes and you're
showing up on stage in a verydifferent way.
What was the conference youspoke at?
Arianne (31:50):
It was at the National Retail Federation.
So she wears.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
I mean I love that you showed up in your
authenticity, because I wear myearrings and my colors and all
the things, and I love that youbring your own style and your
own flair and you're not tryingto do the black suit thing and
and like fit into that box.
And so I think even in that wayyou're showing up in a
different way than maybe we'veseen other leaders show up.
Arianne (32:14):
And you know what I found?
Actually, I have a hilariousgift I'm going to show you from
this past weekend after this,because it's a photo of it was a
boomerang and it's me and thesefour or five guys and they're
all in like a black polo and I'min the front of the screen
dress.
None of them are booming, bythe way, when the boomerang goes
and I'm like doing this and Ifeel like more and more, though
I think if you show up like that, I think it's welcomed.
(32:35):
Like I think, if you're in the right.
Arianne (32:36):
I mean obviously not in every environment, but more and
more.
It's like if you're willing todo that and be the one to just
kind of bust that up like Ithink it's welcomed and invited
and I think within likerespectful boundaries, like you
can do that and actually likereally make things more fun for
everyone, right?
So that's my part of myambition right now is to show up
like that and again back tolike humor and fun and all of us
(32:57):
want to have more joy, sofinding ways to do that.
(33:01):
But going back to leadership, so much of leadership is how
you show up, because you aresetting the tone and you're
setting the standard right.
So you bringing authenticityand play and humor and empathy
gives permission to everybodyelse to show up that way as well
.
Yeah.
Arianne (33:18):
Yeah, and I work in a business where it's very metrics
focused.
We're driving results, they'remeasurable, and I think I
previously thought you couldn'ttake that seriously.
Like you know, I want to beserious about my job.
I want you to know I'm here towin, I'm here to drive the
outcomes and I used to feel like, okay, if the outcomes aren't
there, if results are bad, thenI got to come with a seriousness
(33:41):
that shows my intent to reallydrive results Right, and I think
there's somewhat of thissoftening of realization of like
yes, and like I can be seriousabout my job, I can be serious
about outcomes and I can also befun and playful and we can all
do that together, right.
(33:54):
I also think people respond more and work harder in
environments where they feelsafe and seen and supported and
authentic, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:04):
And I love that you just referred to the, and I mean
I literally have like in myoffice.
Arianne (34:10):
This was a yes and environment.
I knew I was in a yes and placemy and yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Because it's not black and white and it's not
this or that I mean.
Certainly there arecircumstances where that's
that's true, but so much of lifeis yes, and I can be a great
mom and have massive careeraspirations, I can take my job
seriously and infuse it with somuch fun and play Like there's
so much and, and I think when wecan really embody that in our
(34:35):
being, it expands possibilities.
John often is my husband islike well, it's, this is either
going to go this way or it'sgoing to go this way, and I'm
like or or.
What about this way?
You know, like what about that?
(34:49):
You know all the other possibilities.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
And I want to tie that into I know we've talked
about this before of havingthese career aspirations and
being a mom of two littles.
Mom guilt is a real thing, andso I'm curious how you navigate
that world of and with whatyou're up to in the world and
having those sweet babies.
Arianne (35:10):
I'm about to enter a whole new phase of this right
now.
I think I've dealt with thisthrough my career and then now
I'm stepping into an even biggerjob and there's travel.
There's like some commitment toit, but I'm also so excited for
it and I cannot wait to do it,and so yes, and both right.
So, I've had a few phases ofthis throughout my experience
and I think number one I wish Ihad the how but I feel like I've
(35:34):
learned to give myself a lot ofgrace around the things that
don't matter.
That's like when we're on thetext chain and everyone has
these fabulous Valentine's thatthey're making with their kids
and I'm like, oh my God, like mykids' Valentine's are going to
look like shit.
They are going to look likethey don't have a mother.
Because I've been traveling fortwo weeks and so I bought a box
of Valentine's and said, putsome names on these, right?
(35:55):
But honestly, I truly,genuinely, don't feel attached
to that.
I don't feel self-consciousabout it.
I make it a joke because it isfunny and it helps me cut, like
that's how I deal with it.
But I think I give myself a lotof grace around imperfection,
on the things that don't matter,and have to constantly remind
myself of, like you know,talking about priorities, what
matters and none of that shitmatters.
(36:16):
My daughter's hair lookingcrazy all the time because I'm
not the one dressing her and shewent through a homeless phase.
She's out in the world.
She's so cute, she's the cutestlittle girl.
She's on the world looking likeshit because she's so cute.
I'm not always there to get herdressed in the morning and
brush her hair, but that doesn'tmatter.
I also bring in a lot of help.
I have the most supportivehusband in the world.
(36:37):
I have parents who have beenwilling to live nearby and I've
hired people to help and I don'thave any shame in that.
I think sometimes people lookat having extended daycare and
having a nanny or an au pair andthey think, oh, that person
must not value or prioritizetheir children.
Well, actually I want themsurrounded by a network of
people who love them and careabout them and can create an
environment where they're goingto thrive.
(36:58):
If that support system helps mespend 20 more minutes every day
side by side with them insteadof doing something else, then
it's worth it.
I think outsourcing again aprivilege, but outsourcing and
not feeling guilty about thatand recognizing that other
people may perceive itdifferently and they may judge
that I've just got to be okaywith the value that it adds to
(37:18):
my life.
Then I think also thinkingabout my own feelings versus my
children's feelings.
Am I feeling guilt because Ifeel a certain way, but actually
they're fine.
Yeah, it's a big one.
Centering it around, because Ican handle my own guilt and I've
got to handle that with myself.
If it's their feelings, wellthen I'm going to behave
differently and I'm going tomake a different decision and
(37:39):
I'm going to give up somethingfrom my job or whatever it is.
I'll sacrifice that.
(37:43):
Has anything ever come up with them where they have
expressed something that you'vehad to adjust to?
Arianne (37:48):
I think we're still very early days for them having
an awareness of what this means.
Recently my son asked I thinkit was their parents in the
classroom for something and Iwasn't there and he asked about
that.
That, I think, is going tobecome more and more of a topic.
There are certainly businesstrips where I've said I'm sorry,
(38:11):
I can't be there and I've hadto learn who I'm going to
disappoint.
In that instance I've had toaccept that that could be to the
detriment of my job.
That's that we're discerning.
I'm pretty discerning aboutwhen I make each of those
decisions.
There are moments that I don'twant to miss and I think I'll
(38:31):
experience more and more of thatwhere I've got to make a
decision around a careersacrifice versus kid's sacrifice
.
(38:37):
Something I'm really struck by in you that I think is really
powerful.
It's a big lesson for me, a bigexample that you set around not
compromising yourself.
You spoke about being supportedby your parents in a way where
they were holding you, butwithout the parameters or the
boxes.
We're talking about the yesanding.
You have been able to allowyourself to be all the different
(39:01):
parts of yourself that you areand the boundaries you have in
friendships and in the way thatyou are not compromising in your
dreams and in the way that youare not compromising around your
family.
It seems like you have thisheightened awareness of what you
need and what you desire andit's like you're not making any
room for the outside world tocome in and infiltrate that or
(39:25):
take any piece of that away fromyou.
You have to negotiate it, I'msure, in your own life, on a
daily basis.
You know, in your familynetwork all the time, but you're
so boundary, I think, in areally healthy way, thank you.
Arianne (39:41):
That makes me cry.
Thank you, I also want to ownthat because I think I
appreciate that Obviously that'sa lot of that is true.
I also feel just very gratefulto be within the support system
and somewhat in the supportsystem I've created somewhat in
the support system that I'm justgrateful to have, and I think
I've mentioned my husband.
(40:01):
But what I didn't realize untillater in life is that your
partner or your spouse orwhomever, is the most important
career decision you can make,and obviously we all know it's
the most important life decisionyou make.
But I also just want toacknowledge that confidence to
move in those ways and notcompromise, is also underpinned
by massive support that noteveryone has and that I don't
(40:22):
take for granted.
Sometimes I think I feel alittle bit of selfishness in
that too, because it's like well, I have these big career
ambitions and I also want to bea mom, and so I don't know, I
think I just I appreciate yourcomments so much and I want to
own that, and then Isimultaneously want to say
there's also always this layerof like am I taking too much?
Sure, like, great, I get to bethis whole person and that's the
(40:43):
life I want to live.
But yeah, that's maybe.
The doubt I live with is like,am I taking too much?
Am I asking too much?
That's such a big, it's such abig one, I might have to go cry.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
It's a really big one , and I think we have this
language around selfishness andwhat is and isn't right.
(41:01):
Her society.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
And then there is this you know, one of the things
you said and I think about thisoften is who am I going to
disappoint?
Them or me, right?
And it?
Even your family?
Is you, right?
My children is me.
And so so often I think whathappens and we over extend
ourselves is like why can'tdisappoint them?
I have to do the homemadeValentine's, because what if
they don't know?
(41:23):
It's like right, okay, well,what if I disappoint me?
And I know it's not that blackand white, but there becomes
this point of where am Iconstantly choosing to
disappoint myself and put myselfon the back burner?
And in order to make sure thateveryone else is taking care?
of all the time, and it's abalancing act, for sure, but I
really noticed that too when youwere speaking about the
(41:44):
disappointment.
(41:46):
There's something that I like to call enlightened selfishness
.
We love that we have to haveour own needs met.
Our tank has to be full inorder to show up more fully and
more presently in all of thesedifferent areas of our lives.
You know and I think, a lot ofthe world, it's like we reward
(42:06):
self-sacrifice or we think thatit's so noble, we revere it in
some way, and I don't actuallythink that we can show up and
actually serve at our highestcapacity if we are compromised.
One million percent it actuallyfeels like inauthentic giving
and that we can actually give so, so much more in a much, much
(42:29):
bigger way when our foundation,the foundation of our lives, is
thriving and joyful and abundant.
Speaker 2 (42:38):
Yeah, and that's the end, right the end yeah, you can
fill your own bucket and it'snot like a win-lose right.
It's like just because I'mtaking care of my own needs
doesn't mean everyone else ismissing out.
It's like they're actuallygetting a way kick-ass better
version of me.
I can show up as a way bettermom, I can show up as a way
better leader and I think that'sthe story is like the win-lose
(42:59):
right.
(42:59):
And while your kids are now going to have examples of people
who are not compromising theirdreams, you know people who are
showing you that it's possibleto have all the ends, which is
such a gift, such permission forthem.
Arianne (43:13):
Yeah, yeah, I sit well in the studies or the narratives
of people whose children aregrown, who have had big lives,
and those children look back andgo like, yeah, I got this cool
example, I got this cool modelof what a parent could be.
I think there's a lot ofexamples of that and I think
that that gives me confidenceand hope for what's possible.
(43:37):
I think, at the core, if you'recreating an environment where
your kids are loved andsupported by you, by their
community, they're going to comethrough it and have some
confidence themselves.
(43:47):
Yeah, I know we have to wrap up, but I'm very interested in
asking this last question aroundyour formula for success, if
you could speak to.
I love these kinds of questionsLow attachment, high intention.
Arianne (44:00):
Low attachment.
High intention, low attachment.
Yeah, I'm glad you told me myformula.
I forgot to put that out there.
I was like, oh, shit.
Oh no, I'm going to think of it.
Speaker 2 (44:11):
I got to recreate.
Arianne (44:12):
I recently learned this and I think I've practiced it a
little bit and tried topractice it and then hearing it
articulated was so powerful.
So high intention, lowattachment.
I think that's just thisphilosophy that you're coming at
every experience, everychallenge with the best intent
and your best self andeverything you can give in terms
of what's possible, whilesimultaneously not attaching
(44:36):
yourself too much to thespecific outcome.
And I would say that even I'vetalked about my coaching
experience.
I came into that with so muchintention and the outcome was so
different.
Like I was going through somethings, I was exploring some
ideas.
I thought maybe there would bethis path that I would take as
an outcome and it was exactlythe opposite.
And I'm so grateful for thatright.
(44:56):
And had I been attached to onespecific outcome, maybe I
wouldn't be happy.
Maybe you know what I mean IfI'd have the outcome, maybe, but
would I be happy?
Would it be right?
Maybe not right.
And so I think, early in mycareer, my girlfriend Maureen,
she was coaching me because Iwas like really struggling and
she said stay engaged but takethe pressure off.
I was a new manager, I had tofire people.
(45:17):
I was so scared.
I just felt like thisconstriction in my throat
constantly.
I just felt like I don't thinkthis is for me, I don't think I
can do it.
And she said stay engaged andtake the pressure off.
And that was almost like theearly form of this right, which
is just like you can give iteverything you've got and have
high intention around what youwant it to be.
But almost like this, it's likea healthy detachment right.
(45:40):
Again, the outcome is notnecessarily like who I am right,
and so that, to me, keeps merooted in, like a learning
journey and an obsession and afixation with growth and
learning instead of specificoutcomes which often we can't
control.
Speaker 2 (45:54):
It's like a master manifestor's way of being
honestly Set the vision, set theintention, leave room for the
magic, follow your intuition asyou take action.
And I always like to say likethis or something better,
because who are we right?
Like you had your idea of whatyou're going into, the coaching,
and I find that almost 10 timesout of 10, when you go into a
coaching relationship, you'relike I need this thing.
(46:15):
And there you go like oh my God, I got this whole other thing
and you would know that it's me.
(46:19):
Like it's always you get exactly what you need and we
often don't even know what thatis To me it's just like let's
leave room for the magic rightand let's not be so graspy and
our brains are so limiting itdoesn't actually know how to
conceive of all that is possibleand so often it's conditioned
to believe all kinds ofdifferent ideas of what success
(46:39):
is supposed to look like,whatever the things that are
supposed to make us happy.
And so when we actually letthat go and move towards the
things that are bringing us joyor the excitement of an idea, it
just allows it to expand, likeI've told this to most of them
many, many times Like I didn'teven know what human design was
five years ago.
I never set out to do that,that was never a career goal of
(47:03):
mine in any way.
But just following this passionand this curiosity, something
unfolded in a direction that wasso much more in line with my
soul, that was so authentic tome that my brain would have
never been able to conceptualizefor itself.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Your brain would have gotten in the way.
Arianne (47:20):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (47:21):
It would have derailed you.
I have one of my coaches, tracy, who has been on this podcast.
She's my somatic movement coachand at the end of every dance
we do she says what are yourdesires?
And you state your desires andshe has you go into your body
for the desires.
She's like, oh, what am I gonnado?
What does my brain want mydesire to be?
And then she always says and soit shall be beyond your wildest
(47:42):
dreams.
And I'm just feeling that inthis conversation it's like let
it be beyond your wildest dreams, yeah, why limit ourselves to
what our little human brain canconceptualize Like, let it be
that.
(47:54):
That seems like the perfect note to end on.
Thank you so much for beingwith us today.
You're so great to talk to.
Arianne (48:01):
This is the best.
Thank you, oh my gosh, you bothare so great.
Speaker 2 (48:05):
We should have helped each other the whole time.
Arianne (48:07):
We were holding hands.
We were holding hands.
Speaker 2 (48:09):
We should have done that.
We were holding hands.
Arianne (48:12):
It's a nice tight little setup.
Yeah, I really appreciate yourvulnerability and your
thoughtful answers today.
Oh my gosh, this was so fun.
Appreciate it.
Two hays to come, okay.
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