August 25, 2023 • 44 mins
We have a deep and thought-provoking conversation with Alignment Marketing & Business Strategist, Karna Liv Nau, as she leads an exploration into the realms of trauma, healing, authenticity, and the transformative power of vulnerability in today's digital age. Karna's flipping the script on marketing, daring us to see it as a way to connect for real, embrace our power, chase down our dreams, and lay ourselves bare -- no sales pitch needed. Whether you're hustling as an entrepreneur, expressing your art, or just long to share who you are, Karna throws this question out there: What if marketing wasn't about a sale-driven agenda, but fully owning who you are?
The talk spills over into staying true to our values, navigating discomfort zones, and the art of balancing emotional well-being with professional drive and success. Together, we unravel questions like: How do we show up more fully in the world as ourselves and feel safe? How do we navigate the tension between the need for visibility in business and letting go of an agenda? How do we participate in a system while also seeking to transform it? How does healing from trauma and conditioning play a role in all of this? How do we practice more discernment and remain in integrity as both marketers and consumers?
We cover the gamut—from the emotional wounds that shape our lives, to the art of 'slowing down', tuning into emotional intelligence for better decision-making, and so much more. We question the entrenched norms of capitalism, and explore practical steps to dismantle oppressive ideologies that hold us back. If you've ever felt the tug between fitting in and standing out, or crave a more authentic and spiritual path through the digital landscape, this conversation offers a new paradigm. It's a call to liberate ourselves from the old marketing spiel, redefine success beyond immediate results, and do the deep work to not only transform our businesses but ourselves. In the intersection of entrepreneurship, authenticity, and spiritual growth, this episode is for every fierce, authentic soul stepping into the world with courage and integrity.
Trigger warning: please note this episode discusses sexual trauma.
CONNECT WITH KARNA
Check out Karna: https://karnalivnau.com/
Follow on IG: https://www.instagram.com/_alignmentmarketing_/
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free monthly community call on the first Wednesday of every month, join here!
CONNECT WITH INNER REBEL
Follow Inner Rebel Podcast: @innerrebelpodcast
Follow Melissa: @melissa-bauknight
Follow Jessica: @bydesignwithjess
Visit the Inner Rebel website
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Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa (00:47):
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
Before we begin this episode,we want to acknowledge the
conversation contained sensitiveand potentially triggering
content related to experiencesof trauma and healing.
(01:07):
We understand that discussingsuch topics can be difficult and
may bring up some strongemotions.
We encourage you to prioritizeyour well-being and consider if
this episode is right for you atthis moment.
If you choose to engage withthis episode, we hope it
provides insights and support.
We have an incredible guest heretoday who has been a very
special part of my life.
I'll dive into that later inthe episode, but I want to
(01:29):
introduce Karna Livnau.
She's an alignment marketingstrategist who incorporates
feminist and feminine principlesinto her work.
She collaborates with leaderswith an impactful message who
want to detox from patriarchalbusiness practices, embrace
their uniqueness as an asset inthe market and make money while
making a difference.
Don't we all want that?
(01:50):
Her work centers on helping herclients and cultivating a
thriving marketing ecosystem toget traction, joy and sales from
marketing instead offrustration, feeling inauthentic
and creatively stifled.
She believes that a womanaligned with her gifts can be
the change our beautiful worldso desperately needs.
We jump right in in thisepisode so our amazing Jessica
(02:12):
Rose is able to tell a lot aboutsomebody through the art of
human design.
So the episode just jumps rightin on Jessica being able to
identify a very important pieceof Karna's chart.
We hope you enjoy this episode.
Jessica (02:26):
I'm correct.
Melissa (02:29):
You knew it.
Oh my gosh.
Jessica (02:32):
Oh my god.
I said to Melissa there is agate in human design, gate 25.
It's called the Gate ofInnocence.
And I was reading this reallyprofound piece of writing that
you did and you talked aboutreclaiming your innocence
despite some trauma and somepain that you have lived through
.
There's a quote in it and Ishared it with Melissa.
(02:54):
The quote was there is nothinganyone can do to me to reduce my
inherent worth, innocence andpure goodness.
And I said there is a lifemission in human design where I
literally use those words, whereI say that innocence gets
tested and it is the path of thespiritual warrior to return to
(03:15):
that innocence, no matter whathappens, that we are not our
pain.
Innocence in this sense isuniversal love.
To return to universal love.
And I said I bet she has gate25 in her chart and your son
expression is gate 25, this gateof innocence.
So you're living your lifemission.
We're like 30 seconds in.
It shows up in the cross ofhealing and the cross of the
(03:37):
vessel of love and you're on thecross of healing.
Karna Liv Nau (03:40):
Boom Mic drop.
Well, I love that.
I love it to have thatreflection back.
You know it's very powerful tobe reflected back.
I think one of the mostfundamental gifts of human
design is to be able to mirroroneself and something so
profoundly.
That's what these tools are for, in my opinion, my experience,
it's like the ability to justfeel that there's something
(04:01):
reflecting back because we're onthis deep conditioning journey
from a new human design language.
It's the deep conditioning andfor you to like pick up on that,
it feels just really soothingbecause it's you know, it's in
conjunction to my professionalwork.
My personal path has alwaystaken the front seat, and so for
that to come through it feelsvery empowering and just feels
really good.
(04:21):
So, thank you for saying that.
Jessica (04:23):
Thank you for letting me share that and for seeing me.
Yeah, well, my pleasure.
Well, thank you for yourvulnerable share.
I was really moved by yourwriting and what you were
willing to share so openly.
I'm so sorry for what youexperienced and what you had to
go through, and then I'm alsostruck by your incredible
warrior spirit and ability todig deep through that and return
(04:46):
to love and return to yoursense of self in such a
beautiful way and then be ableto pass that gift on to others.
That's really profound to me,so thank you for that.
Karna Liv Nau (04:58):
Well, what I desire is what one of my biggest
pleasures in life is to be ableto take something so horrifying
like the worst thing that couldever happen.
So you're talking about a pieceof content that I wrote.
It's called what I learnedabout love from being raped,
right.
So we're jumping into the deepend here right away which I'm
not surprised with the two ofyou that were able to do that
and to be able to know that thisis something that so many
(05:22):
people have experienced in theirlife I mean, victim shaming and
blaming is alive and well evenin 2023, you know and so to be
able to take all of that andjust shed it and say like, no,
this is nothing, this is nothingto do with me.
It's empowering stance to gothrough a transition of saying I
was a victim, but not stayingin victim consciousness, and so
(05:44):
to be able to take that andshare it, and for that to have
value for someone else, becauseI know humanity at large is so
beautiful and struggling rightnow.
At the same time, there's somuch suffering and so much
beauty.
They want to be born to be ableto take some of the things that
I've learned and feeling like,okay, this is actually
fortifying someone else, notnecessarily to go on the path
that I did, but it's likespiritual sustenance.
You know, to take somethingfrom what I've done.
(06:06):
You're right, I'm very fierceabout this.
There's a real childlike partof me and then there's the real
fierce part of me and I loveboth of them very much.
Jessica (06:14):
I think they go together, I think they're
actually one in the same.
Or I think we diminishinnocence, right, we become a
little bit condescending aroundit, but I actually think it is
an incredible power, anincredible strength that reminds
all of us of who we really areyou know, the truth of who we
really are, that we are justlove, and I think that is the
(06:34):
most powerful thing that thereis.
Karna Liv Nau (06:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Jessica (06:39):
I feel this podcast has been for me, a lesson in
vulnerability and it's been ajourney for me getting more and
more comfortable to share, youknow, these raw pieces of myself
in a public way.
I'm like in a vulnerabilityhangover, like all the time, and
at the same time, what keeps megoing is the experience that I
(07:01):
had reading your piece.
When people do actually open upand share, I feel so
transformed, I feel so muchsafer in my humanity, I feel so
much braver to show up in theworld and feel connected through
our shared humanity.
So, yeah, it's a reminder to meas well of why I do this and
why we're here in the space andthe importance of that.
Karna Liv Nau (07:23):
And I think vulnerability hangovers are real
.
But I have a curiosity becauseI was thinking today when I was
peeing, because that's where Ido a lot of my best work.
Melissa (07:34):
Sure.
Karna Liv Nau (07:35):
Yeah, okay.
I've been in a lot ofconversation lately with people
around how to take up space,vulnerability and take care of
ourselves at the same time.
If you're looking at a socialmedia platform, these are the
rules of engagement X, y and Z.
Like, if you want to besuccessful here, you have to do
it this way, we're being toldright.
So here's how to do it for thealgorithm.
Here's how to do it to capturesomeone's attention really
(07:58):
quickly.
Here's how to get them to takeaction step.
There's all these things thatwe're being asked to do.
I'm really in the curiosityright now.
What's the benefit and what'sthe cost of each of these things
?
If I'm being really vulnerableand I'm getting more like clicks
for that and likes and shares,maybe that would lead me to do
more of that.
Maybe, when I'm not even ready,I'm really inviting people into
(08:19):
a conversation of like, makingsure that you are being cared
for in that process as well.
How do we do this now?
Because our mental healthmatters, our bottom line matters
, the things that arecultivating matters.
Melissa (08:32):
And I think that this speaks to your rebellious side
in the way in which you dobusiness, because you're not a
traditional marketer.
I mean, this is the whole pointof alignment, marketing right
or being in alignment.
What are your values?
What do you care about?
What is safe for your nervoussystem?
Well, simultaneously gettingout of your comfort zone.
If we're speaking of visibility, yes, and I think this is the
(08:54):
hardest part of running abusiness to me doing the things
you're supposed to do, versusdoing the things that you want
to do, and then doing some ofthe things that you're supposed
to do that push you out of yourcomfort zone, but you can do it
in a way that honors you.
Karna Liv Nau (09:07):
So one question that you had in your podcast
note is who do you think you hadto be and who are you?
Did you say that?
Melissa (09:14):
That's correct.
That's usually how we start,but we jumped in through human
design.
Oh, I'm bringing it back.
Jessica (09:19):
Well, you're full circle but yeah, that's where we
usually start.
Who are you and how is thatdifferent from who you thought
you were supposed to be?
Karna Liv Nau (09:28):
So for me it was make sure the other people are
comfortable.
That's who you are.
You are what is good foreverybody and that's not who I
am.
Sovereignty is a big buzzwordbut for me the sovereign
conversation was always aroundshifting my allegiance from an
external authority to becominginternally referenced.
Who I was told to be was likethis you know, it's basically I
(09:51):
was a means to an end and mypersonality was sick.
Like I crafted a real goodpersonality and I was so in tune
, like I was so hyper,vigilantly dialed in, but my
internal lived experience prettyconstant anxiety, the good girl
syndrome.
And then you have the culturallayer of Sweden.
There's thing called JantheLagen.
(10:12):
It's the law of Janthe, it'sbasically the equivalent would
be like tall poppy syndrome,like everybody has to be the
same.
So for me I had so many giftsand talents and I had to like
really shrink them down, likepick a lane.
You can only be good at onething.
And part of who I actually wasas I'm a writer, I'm a zone by
(10:32):
instructor.
Now, like I teach them by everyFriday because they bring joy.
I have my sub stack because itbrings me joy.
It's not something I'mmonetizing.
I teach marketing and I'mcomfortable being more than one
thing.
And that is so liberatingbecause I was always told pick a
lane.
Jessica (10:50):
So what was your journey of healing through that?
How did you discover who youreally are?
Karna Liv Nau (10:56):
I had a lot of help.
I think the real catalyst waswhen I started working with
autistic kids.
I was going to become atherapist.
I graduated top of my class.
I went from having like theworst grades and then I had like
a huge shift around 16.
My sister was like I know herparents don't tell you this,
because my parents weren'tconcerned with academia.
They kind of left me to my owndevices.
(11:18):
My sister was like the gradestells you what college you get
into it.
I'm like, oh shit, I'm going toget some good grades.
I know nobody told you this,but you're smart, you can do
this.
And I actually I had anabortion when I was 16 and
that's really what did it.
Something inside of me shiftedand I'm so grateful for that
experience.
It was the most brutalexperience of my life after that
(11:39):
time, but it shifted me.
And then my sister coming inand like giving me that guidance
.
And then in Sweden you have towork for one year to become a
therapist and I had like twohours missing to be able to get
in and I was like what the hell?
And then I saw this sign andsaid do you want the most
interesting job in the worldLike heck, yeah, I do.
It turned out I was working withautistic kids and I'm sure
(12:00):
you're familiar with people withautism.
They are very sincere humanbeings Like they cannot fake.
I was faking it and so Icouldn't make a connection.
I was like I'm going to be thebest caregiver you've ever had
and they were like not going totalk to you for months on end
and it was just this painfulthing.
I kept bringing cool toys andbeing more animated and all the
things I knew how to do, likemanipulate and nothing.
(12:21):
And then one day I got thereand Jacob, who I was working
with, was sick that day and Iwas like, well, I took the 20
minutes to get to this townoutside of where they lived.
And I was like, well, I'm justgoing to hang out.
And so we ended up hanging outand before long we were rolling
around on the floor singingopera at the top of our lungs
and I was like holy shit, likewhat just happened, and just
(12:42):
like shifted something in myfundamental understanding.
I didn't know that at the time.
Of course I was like 20something.
I ended up wanting to go to theoption Institute.
It's like a self-help place inWestern Mass.
So I flew from Sweden toWestern Mass and I found my
people.
These people are into God,they're into spirit, they're
into self-help.
I'm going to live in America.
I can't stay in Sweden, eventhough it's an incredible place
(13:03):
in many ways.
I felt very stifled there.
It felt like the smallest boxfor me to exist in.
Option set me on a course tothe Institute for Integrative
Nutrition and after that I movedto Boulder and it was on every
healer, every, every healer.
I mean.
I wrote a blog post.
I think I tried 87 modalities.
Jessica (13:19):
Wow, wow, you've been around the block.
Melissa (13:22):
The stories I can tell yeah, Boulder has everything.
Karna Liv Nau (13:26):
I just did every single healing modality that you
could think of and through thatjourney it's been very much
like a unfolding.
I know, yes, it was mypart-time job, jessica I never
have worked like a 45-hour week.
I was kept thinking, if I workhard enough at it, I'll be done,
(13:46):
I'll be done.
And then I realized it couldwork.
Jessica (13:49):
Well, your life mission is the cross of healing.
Melissa (13:54):
Well, yes, full circle, yes.
Karna Liv Nau (13:57):
Full circle.
I mean, yes, if there was aspiritual Olympics, I would have
the gold medal, because I'm socommitted to this.
First it was about learning tolove myself, and then it was
about surrendering to thisbigger, to the bigger plan, if
you will, or to God, as I defineit, and that's where I'm at
right now.
So you're finding me in thisdeep surrender place where I'm
having to give up a lot ofthings that kept me feeling safe
(14:18):
and in control and comfortableand going out and saying that I
have something that I think isvaluable to share with the world
, and that's kind of why we'rehere.
Jessica (14:26):
So how did marketing become your passion?
Karna Liv Nau (14:29):
Well, I kind of slipped in there on a banana
field.
I really didn't want to domarketing Like the last thing I
wanted to do On a banana field.
When I came to Boulder, I juststarted working at this place
called the Institute for thePsychology of Eating.
It was right when we weretaking a live training and
putting it online and early days, like Facebook was new all
these things were new.
The person I worked for she waslike oh, early adopter, she
(14:52):
took every single training, so Iwas just kind of her right hand
woman.
So I ended up being a righthand woman for multiple
companies.
I was the director of events ofa company called Emerging Women
.
So that's when my passion wasreally stoked.
I was at the intersection oftechnology artistry.
It was like a very powerfulexperience for me witnessing
Bernay Brown and Liz Gilbertbecoming friends and our Anna
(15:13):
Huffington, willanis, merced,terraria, trent we had Dane
Goodall.
So it was like these youngwomen, older women from arts,
from tech, and just witnessingit and I was like this world is
incredible.
And then I started seeing thetoxicness of it and behind the
scenes and I was like whoa, dude, what is going on here?
And I became like a little PILike what's going on with these
(15:34):
women?
What are we doing?
How do we do business andmarketing?
And then I started becoming aconsultant and had a nap for it.
I'm just always trying andtesting and see what's working.
And then I started a smallboutique marketing agency around
feminine principles and thatevolved beyond the feminine.
Then I found what I now teachwith the alignment component.
So what I say about whatalignment is is write
(15:55):
relationship with source, writerelationship with myself, with
other and with the planet.
So it's really an approach thatcould go with anything.
I happen to apply the lens tomarketing, but I think it
applies to any relationship orwhatever.
I love it and I also have ahard time with it because it's
so difficult.
So it is my passion, because Ibelieve there's a different way
that we can do it, and I want tobe part of that solution and I
(16:17):
want to support that kind of analternative structure.
Jessica (16:21):
I come from a very different background than both
of you and I think there are alot of people who are tuning in,
who are entrepreneurs, andthere's also a lot of people who
aren't.
It doesn't mean they don't havea soul passion that they're
pursuing.
So I'm actually wondering if wecan just break it down a little
bit more to the basics of whatis marketing even and just help
reframe it, because I thinkwe're all doing it, but give the
(16:44):
access point into thisconversation.
Karna Liv Nau (16:47):
That's so important.
Thank you for being that bridgeto the gap.
This is not like a universalanswer.
This is my answer, okay, so Iwant to start by prefacing with
that.
So marketing is, let's say, youhave something you want to
share with the market and themarketing is the activities
you're doing to bring people into want to buy the thing that
you're selling.
And that could even be like Ialso have a sub-stack, or having
(17:07):
a creative pursuit, or you wantto share what you're doing on
your vacation or whatever it isLike.
You want to be relevant to thepeople that you're talking to,
like your family or whatever.
So when you're puttingsomething out there, I think
it's very human to be wanting.
We want to be seen, we want tobe heard, we want to be
reflected.
Do we want to have connection?
So we're trying to make aconnection and then someone
wants that thing, whether theyengage with in some way or if
(17:28):
they want to buy the thing.
I think that's ultimately like.
The bottom line is like how dowe show up in a way that's
authentic to us?
The marketing component is whatare the things you could do to
increase the likelihood ofsomeone knowing that they want
to purchase or engage with yourthing and then also convert.
So there's like a lingo in hereand I want to stay away from
that.
But does that make sense forwhat I'm saying?
(17:50):
I operate off of more principlesthan steps.
I think this is where I see alot of people going into like
marrying human design withmarketing, because it allows you
to have a unique approach toyou.
I look through the lens ofwhat's your gifts and talents?
What lights you up?
Where is your creative genius?
And then there's another thingaround their creativity.
So I try to tie their marketingplan to creativity.
(18:14):
I have, like all these systemsand principles, and then I find
out who are you and then I gookay, now we're going to tailor
this around you.
And I wish that people would dothis more, because I think when
we try to go outside ofourselves and do someone else's
approach, there's a lot ofsuffering that happens.
It doesn't usually work verywell, and then what ends up
happening is the person startsinternalizing it and making
(18:34):
about them.
They're like I suck atmarketing, I suck at this.
And it's like well, do you suckat marketing or did you suck at
this person's way of doing it?
We've been reduced into like ablack or white kind of a reality
and the magic happens in thegray zone.
Did this come for the testing?
So I always have to coachpeople into getting
uncomfortable in some way.
If you're doing marketing Likethere's no way around it, you're
(18:57):
going to have to beuncomfortable.
So I'm very much about let's goout there and see where
resonates.
And I get people excited aboutgetting no likes, no shares.
This is not about who isreacting to you right up front.
This is about you saying toyourself I believe that my thing
matters so much that I'm goingto speak.
I am doing this for myself.
I believe in myself so much.
Melissa (19:16):
I literally teared up and I was like, whoa, it was not
an emotional sentence that yousaid, but when you said I'll
just cry, like when you said Ibelieve in myself so much that
I'm going to keep showing up.
It's so hard and I was thinkingabout this a lot the last few
days, specifically because I amdoing a lot with marketing and
(19:37):
showing up very consistently,and I was reflecting on
consistency and I was like Ihave consistently shown up for
my entire adult life and I thinkthat it's important to talk
about how hard it can feel,especially in business, and I
like to do it.
But when you get into therabbit hole of what am I getting
for what I'm giving, it can bereally emotionally draining.
Karna Liv Nau (20:02):
The thing is, the way that the game is set up at
this point is reallydemoralizing for a lot of people
.
I think another layer of thisthat I want to emphasize, and I
think it's important for peopleto know even if they're being
marketed to you know what I'msaying, like if they're the ones
receiving this is relevant,whether you're participating as
a consumer or someone who'soffering a service or a product.
(20:24):
Something I've thought a lotabout is where does consumption
come from?
Like, where are the core values?
They come from capitalism, andI think a lot of people went
through a huge transformationduring the pandemic, awakened to
like we want something more.
There was always parameters ofsuccess, and we're like shifting
what those parameters are.
(20:45):
I feel like people are tired ofbeing put through funnels and
being sold in a certain way, andpeople are getting tired of
selling that way.
We're innovating a new way ofdoing this beyond capitalism,
late stage capitalism.
It's hard because in some way,we have to play by some of the
rules of engagement in themarketplace, but also we want to
innovate.
So I want to explore, like,what can we do that's empowering
(21:06):
?
What are the steps that we cantake to move forward, while
acknowledging that this is notreally working for a lot of
people and it's painful.
Melissa (21:13):
Yeah, I think the thing that I'm present to is how easy
it is to get sucked back in,even when you know better, even
when you're trying to beincredibly intentional about how
you're showing up in yourbusiness and life.
It's so much easier to getsucked back into the system than
it is to rise above it, to bemore intentional about it, to be
(21:35):
more innovative about it, and Ithink it's something that
everybody whether you're acreative or you're an
entrepreneur or you're incorporate you're impacted by
this system that is in place.
Like, how do I not fit in thisbox that the system has built
around me and show up in adifferent way, even when all
these things around me aretelling me no?
Jessica (21:57):
I think where I'm confused is how can you
disengage from the system and bepart of the system at the same
time as consumers wereoverwhelmed and we wanna opt out
.
And then we're also talkingabout how do we show up and
market and sell our message.
So can you help me kind ofunderstand those strings that
(22:18):
seem to me right now to be ableto get entangled?
I would love to.
Karna Liv Nau (22:22):
Nothing would make me happier, of course,
cause it is messy.
Right, let's be messy together.
Let's explore the difficultparts of the conversation.
That's the best part, cause Iwanna be uncomfortable together.
So let's go there, and Iappreciate you being so open,
because a lot of times you canjust go out so far and be like,
well, that sounds great, let'smove on.
So one thing that we have to doand this is the hardest part for
me is to slow down and to feelour bodies know that itself.
(22:46):
So we have to know ourselves.
We have to do the inner work,to have discernment of like what
do I wanna participate in, whatdo I don't wanna participate in
?
By slowing everything down,we're able to use our body as a
tool.
We have to learn what is theway that I practice discernment,
and as a consumer, I don't buysomething if someone tries to
put false curiosity in there.
That's like a principle of mine.
(23:06):
Like you try to do that, you'renot my person, because I don't
engage in that way but we findpeople who are in alignment with
who we are and who we wanna be.
So we can consume from peoplewho are doing things differently
.
And if we're talking aboutsomeone who is trying to put
something out there.
We gotta figure out what areyour core values Like.
Who are you and what do youstand for.
How does this feel right now?
(23:27):
And you find the path forwardthat feels in alignment with who
you are, and that is work, andit's also a lot of play.
We can start this conversationtalking about innocence.
So another cool part aboutinnocence is that I believe we
need to bring play back into theconversation, like what
actually brings me joy and howdo I participate in things that
give me joy?
How do we lower ourselves downand just say, well, what's the
(23:48):
right next step?
And I feel in my body that, yes, like I'm in line with this,
this is 100% right.
Jessica (23:53):
I think I'm trying to distill something down, because
I hear you and I think yourpassion is using the medium of
marketing, but it is somethingthat transcends marketing right,
yes, baby, and I want us tothank you for saying that.
Yeah, and I want us to find thewords for it.
I think it's right in there inwhat you said.
(24:14):
What was coming to me was howdo we get our hearts message out
into the world?
Karna Liv Nau (24:21):
Yes, baby.
Jessica (24:22):
That's what came to me.
Does that resonate for you?
Does that feel true as what thepassion is, or is it deeper
than that?
Karna Liv Nau (24:28):
The passion is for each individual to be who
they truly are and to take whothey truly are and find the way
to take up their rightful place.
I call it, and it can be as bigor as small as it is.
It's their rightful place whenthey dream at night, when
someone lies awake and they seethemselves and they're doing all
these things.
That's who I want to help.
That's my passion of allowingpeople to actually be their true
(24:50):
selves and helping navigatethat into a bigger platform.
Jessica (24:54):
Right.
So how do we show up in theworld in a bigger way?
How do we take the essence ofus, our authenticity, our hearts
, and take up space and show upin the world in the full
expression of who we are?
Karna Liv Nau (25:08):
But it's mostly for our own self.
My experience of the peoplethat I serve is it's like a
self-love practice that then, bytaking up the space and owning
yourself and doing this work,sparks that in the other and it
might be different for them, butthis is like a candle to a
flame, to a flame to a flame,because ultimately I think my
real dream is to alleviate thesuffering of humanity because
(25:29):
we're so hurt.
The sister wound is real, themother wound is real, the father
wound is real, the persecutionwound is real.
These are the cycle breakers.
It's like there was a wholelineage that couldn't feel what
we're allowing ourselves to feel, like we were the first in our
lineage that had the privilege,the capacity, the space to feel
(25:51):
the truth.
Jessica (25:52):
So now I feel like we can cycle back, because now I
feel like I understand the bigpicture and tell me, you tell me
.
Karna Liv Nau (25:59):
I'm very eager to find out.
Jessica (26:01):
Yeah, so I want to cycle back then to what Melissa
was sharing in your vulnerableshare, and when you said we need
to have this kind ofconversation, then to me and
please let me know if I'mmisinterpreting but the
marketing that we're talkingabout is how do we take up space
and show up in the world in ourfull authenticity, without
(26:23):
apology, and feel safe?
How do we feel safe to do that,even if we're not being
received, which is, I think, thepain that the majority of us
actually feel, and what kind ofshuts us down from actually
showing up?
You know, in a way, everyonewho has social media, anyone who
has Instagram, we're marketing.
That is what it is.
Let's call it what it is, but Idon't want to rub you the wrong
(26:46):
way, but in my human designwork, I tell a lot of people not
to market at all.
Projectors.
If they try to marketthemselves, solicit themselves
in some way, it actually has theopposite effect.
It tends to repel people andthey're like well, what do I do?
How do I put this out into theworld?
And I say authentic sharingwithout an agenda.
Karna Liv Nau (27:02):
Exactly and wait for the invitation.
I mean, yeah, rub away, baby.
That is music to my ear.
I think that's great.
I mean you're giving thempermission to do something and
so that's what I was sharingwith you is how I do it around
their authentic gifts andtalents.
I mean I have to put a label onit and people understand what
marketing is.
So this is like a shortcut thatI'm taking to something deeper.
(27:24):
I agree with you how soothingfor those people is exactly who
I'm talking about, the peoplewho've been out there doing the
cookie cutter, and then theyhate themselves and then you
come in and you say, hey, howabout drop all that?
Start sharing authenticallyfrom your heart, with no agenda.
You still have to show up andmeet new people perhaps, or
whatever it is.
That's kind of their edge.
There's ways that they could dothat, because another
(27:46):
difficulty that I've found withthat kind of approach now I'm
hoping I'm not rubbing you thewrong way where people then
become almost complacent andthen they get resentful for that
reason because they're notdoing the authentic sharing part
and they're like I'm justsitting here waiting for them to
date.
Jessica (28:00):
I'm like you still got to have to show up, right.
Well, I think the work isbecoming so embodied and
empowered in yourself and whatyou have to offer, and knowing
you have value and sharing it inservice.
Because it is a value.
You have to know your worthright and want to be generous
with that.
And when you're doing that,then we can't help but see you.
(28:23):
And so I think we're marketing,or even just the terminology of
marketing and how it tends torub me the wrong way, is, to me,
marketing has an agenda.
It's this idea that I have tosell myself.
And that is so out of the linesof the work that I just happen
to do, right, but I actuallythink there is a different
quality that we're touching onhere that I really, really
appreciate.
(28:43):
So how again going back to thisearlier conversation how do we
let go of the agenda?
Because I think it's in theagenda that we actually end up
feeling hurt when it isn'treceived.
Melissa (28:58):
Yeah, and I have some before you answer.
I want to jump in because Ihave done sales for 18 years and
I mean marketing and sales canget sort of meshed up together
in a lot of ways.
Where does one end and onebegin?
Right, but sales people'sbiggest fear is I don't want to
feel salesy.
Well, the agenda is the salesy.
The agenda is when you'reputting your own needs above
(29:22):
somebody else's, when you're notjust being genuinely curious,
asking questions, figuring outlike well, what do you need?
Like do I have anything thatyou need?
And if I do, then like great,let's figure this out.
But the fear is always in theagenda, because that is what
makes people feel gross.
And so I think it's the same inmarketing, and I think it's the
same in sales and it's the samein business, it's the same in
(29:44):
life, it's the same inrelationships.
It's like showing up in a waythat you're genuinely curious
about the other person and maybeyou have something to offer
them and maybe you don't, butyou're not trying to force it
upon them just because you needto meet your quota.
I'd love your take on it fromthe marketing lens.
So ask me the question again,jessica.
Jessica (30:01):
Oh, I don't know if it was a clear question, but I
think it is showing up with theagenda.
That makes us sad when wearen't received, because we have
expectations right, we attachresults, we are seeking external
validation right.
Karna Liv Nau (30:15):
Yes, exactly.
So you've two.
Spoke to two components a lotof from my perspective which is
the external validation and thelack of curiosity of the agenda.
So for me it would be.
This is where it isn't actuallymarketing to your point,
jessica.
I'm just using that languagebecause it's something that
people understand to then invitethem into a deeper conversation
(30:37):
of like.
For me, this is our one wildand wonderful life.
This life is short and it'svery precious and it matters how
we spend our time.
So there's all these shifts,there's a lot of the
conditioning that has to happenin that process, but one thing
is that we have to let go ofbeing in control and it's really
about trusting life.
(30:58):
I do a lot of guided meditation.
So one of my favorite thingsthat I do because I'm speaking
to my subconscious mind, like alot of our fears right, they
don't live.
They live in the amygdala andthey live in the body.
They live in a nervous system.
They don't live in where we'rethinking consciously.
So I often imagine myself likeas life is a river or a body of
water, and this is where it'slike what's rightfully mine,
(31:20):
when I show up and shareauthentically.
I want to trust that lifebrings me the things that are
rightfully mine and I can trustwhat comes my way and if I'm
curious and aware and taking itslow and being in this more
receptive state.
So it's like this dance betweenI'm putting myself out there
but I'm receiving also.
It's like this real yin yangkind of left brain, right brain,
(31:43):
strategy, surrender, it's both,and I'm always talking about
both.
And because we cannot reduce itto like a single way, it's like
a martial art, it's like yourmeaning life right there.
And so the hardest part is tosay yes to whatever life brings
you.
And I talk about suspendingjudgment a lot.
I'm saying like gosh, darn it.
Life is so good and love is sobig and it's so much bigger than
(32:04):
what I can perceive with mylittle 240 watt megabyte I don't
know how many megabytes you canprocess my brain cannot process
the magnitude and thegorgeousness and the
intelligence.
Thus I have to allow and that'swhere the body has so much more
intelligence.
It's like a symphony between,like, if you think about it from
a chakra perspective, we'reactivating all the chakras and
(32:25):
we're participating and allowingit to come, and we're saying I
believe that love is, and sowhatever showing up right now is
love and I'm going to stay herestubbornly.
There's a Maria Popova courtabout this.
It's like I'm just going tostand here stubbornly until this
turns into love because I knowit will if I suspend judgment
long enough and I've luckilybeen around on the fun long
enough that that's actually beentrue for me.
(32:47):
The greatest adversities thatI've been through has been my
best teachers.
Now I feel grateful for it.
I didn't start out feelinggrateful for it and I hope you
can bring someone who can talk alittle bit about spiritual
bypassing onto the podcast,because we want to rush into
premature forgiveness.
We want to like oh honey, I'mjust, I'm feeling this now.
I'm just like I just got to, Igot to take a second.
(33:08):
This is really important to me,what we're talking about now,
thank you.
I just got into, like I got intothe head of it as I was
explaining it and then I sawMelissa's face and it like
punched me down into my heartand realizing this is what I am,
this is it, you know trust andfaith.
It's so hard because sometimesholding the faith, holding the
(33:29):
candle, when seemingly there'snothing there, it's almost like,
as I walk through the valley ofshadow death, I should fear no
evil.
I have been so many times inthat void where all I have is my
faith and love, and it's hardand I want to be there with
people who want to be in thisconversation with me.
So that's what I'm showing upwith in my work, and my passion
(33:50):
is not so much that I have allthe answers, but I have good
questions and I have really goodsnacks and I love you.
Melissa (33:58):
Snacks are very important on the spiritual path
and when my gatherings oh mygosh, I really you're also
talking to like your child and Ihave snacks.
Karna Liv Nau (34:09):
I mean that's another thing.
You know I do internal familysystems where there's parts, and
sometimes I have to be like theinner child.
I mean right now I'm steppingout in the big way and I have to
reassure her so much, so much,so much in her mothering.
And I've been fortunate enoughto work with one of my clients,
bethany Webster, and I'velearned a lot about inner
mothering from her.
But there's a lot of trust andso it's a journey and I'm
(34:31):
grateful I get to go on with you.
Jessica (34:34):
You know, earlier Melissa shared your hard week
and I relate to this question.
It's like I'm showing up, I'mgiving it my all, I'm doing all
of the things and then sometimesit feels like it never is quite
being received or getting offthe ground.
And you also brought up how doyou take care of yourself in
this space of vulnerabilitywhere, okay, you keep showing up
(34:57):
, you keep being generous withyourself and maybe it's not
quite aligning yet?
What do you suggest, Like whatwould be the next step?
Karna Liv Nau (35:07):
It's a beautiful question.
I always going to answer everyone where it's like it depends.
You know it's kind of like myMO, but I will come to you with
this.
You stop.
The actual answer could be youneed a new strategy.
It could be like you need abath.
It could be like you need tocall a friend, like it could be
many things and everyone willhave a different response to
this.
But I do think that there's anavoidance, like there's
(35:27):
something I'm avoiding in myself.
We just got to stop, turntoward and tend to whatever is
hurting or whatever feelsdisconnected, and be like you
have shown up, validate, youknow you did show up so much.
If we're talking about partswork, it could be that you're in
a child is hurting.
It could be like a protectorpart that's activated.
Let's just say it's a part ofyou, someone in there is hurting
(35:49):
and someone needs to be heard,and if you can turn toward and
then get curious about that partand just say, like what do you
need?
I need to just stop.
I need to stop.
I need to go in nature rightnow Water, nature, friend, food,
like you know oh, I haven'tbeen sleeping, I will tell you
this so many times with me andmy clients, we get excited about
a project and then slowly allour self care slipping away
(36:12):
because we're so excited aboutthe thing and now we're got
depleted.
Then we're like it's not working, because, yeah, life is like
we're not gonna give you thegift, because you're not taking
care of yourself and that's yourjob, like you're self abandon.
If it's one thing about me thatI would share, it would be I
used to be someone who abandonedmyself for other people and now
I don't abandon myself.
So I want to say don't abandonyourself, turn toward that part
(36:35):
and love it the best way youknow how to do in that moment.
Jessica (36:38):
I'd also love to make the offering that I think we
tend to expect instant results.
Karna Liv Nau (36:44):
Oh gosh.
Jessica (36:45):
And I love that.
Earlier you said go slow andthat I think is a big part of it
trusting the process andtrusting the time that things
take and that if it's notdelivering instantaneous results
it does not mean it's notworking.
Karna Liv Nau (36:59):
No.
Jessica (36:59):
The other thing that this podcast has taught me in
showing up more myself, moreauthentically, more vulnerably
in a public space, I amconfronting my shadow.
I am outing my shadow on aweekly basis.
Melissa (37:13):
Oh, yes, you are yeah.
Jessica (37:14):
The things that I'm sharing here are things that I
was sharing in the most privatespaces with my closest friends.
You know and I am doing thework as a human design reader
I'm also an actress.
All of the work that I do isrooted in authenticity, and so
it makes sense that my pathwould take me through the
deepest lessons that I wouldneed to move through in order to
(37:37):
truly be embodied inauthenticity.
But it does require movingthrough your shadow and a lot of
your deepest fears at least inmy case, that's been true and
when you're showing up publicly,that gets mirrored back to you
so intensely and you need to gogently, and you need to go
slowly, and you need to do deepself-care and love yourself
(38:00):
harder and you build resiliencythrough the process.
But it's almost like I thinkyou get as much as you can
handle right now so that you canlike build capacity.
Capacity, capacity, that's it.
You can build capacity.
Karna Liv Nau (38:16):
That's it, you nailed it.
Thanks, obviously, obviouslyPeople yeah, you said it
beautifully and know who tolisten to and who not to listen
to.
I got my first hater and I waspsyched.
I'm like I made it.
Jessica (38:33):
You made it.
Karna Liv Nau (38:35):
I made it.
Listen, I got someone who toldme I should stop dancing because
my marketing videos does notneed me to dance.
I'm like you are following thewrong person, but I'm psyched,
oh my gosh.
Melissa (38:44):
Because that's like somebody's biggest fear is what
if somebody doesn't like what Ihave to say and you're like, yes
, they didn't like it?
Karna Liv Nau (38:52):
Let's stop taking ourselves so seriously.
When you're in survival, youhave to, because everything is a
threat.
But in a fundous land, likewhen we play with people who
genuinely care about you and arekind and who will give you
feedback, they're going to haveyour back and haul you out, but
with so much love, like thoseother people and I have those
people like.
These are the five people thatcan have opinions about me.
The rest, fine.
(39:13):
Like that's your projections onme.
You don't really know me.
I'm going back to the fact thatI'm doing this because I
believe in my message and thethings that I've done have had
magnificent results, andsometimes it's just one person,
and I'm happy with that.
But I do have a big vision andI hope that this message will
touch more people, because Ithink more people need to be a
part of this conversation thatwe just had today.
Jessica (39:33):
I think what you spoke to, by the way, is about holding
that capacity right To have theone hater come and you be like.
Whatever is, the capacity thatneeds to be built Is all of the
work and the years of healingand moving through your own
shadow and coming into your ownself-love.
That doesn't even trigger youat all, it's just like whatever.
Karna Liv Nau (39:57):
Believe me, I have plenty of triggers, but in
this case, I feel I have built alot of capacity and I think we
can lend the capacity to eachother.
That's the beauty of anecosystem and this is what we're
creating Like.
We're building resiliencetogether because we're not
separate.
We're an ecosystem.
We are like trees with rootsthat are intersecting right now.
We're mushrooms, we're spores.
The communication that ishappening right now is words,
(40:18):
but it's energy.
It's so much bigger and deeper,more gorgeous, and we can get
further.
We're going to do this together.
Melissa (40:25):
I am so grateful for you being here.
You've played such aninstrumental part of my life,
especially as it relates to whatyou just said, at the very end
of really working together andhaving each other's back and
doing this in a different way.
You came into my life at thefirst.
She was the speaker at Createyour Ripple, like the very
beginning, like the seed of thisdream that's coming to life.
(40:47):
I don't even remember what Iwas looking for, but I was like
I need the most amazing personto come present at this
conference.
Who do you know?
And Kara gave me your name andI remember you were like the
stranger that I called that Iwas so afraid of calling because
I'm like who am I?
This woman is the director ofevents at Emerging Women.
(41:08):
She's getting this person onstage and this person on stage
and look at how amazing she isand she put my phone call.
This is crazy.
You took my phone call and thenyou were a hell yes to showing
up at the event.
And that was almost eight yearsago and I know it's fucking
crazy.
And so I just think of thesesliding door moments of picking
(41:29):
up the phone to call a strangerwho happened to be you who
happens to be on our podcasttoday, eight years later, and so
much life has happened andyou're such a cheerleader for
women and your work is profound.
You are love and you've alwaysbeen that way, from the moment I
met you eight years ago.
I love this full circle momentof having you on here and
getting to share your story, andI'm just so grateful for who
(41:52):
you've been in my life and Iknow that you have that presence
for so many other people inthis world.
So just thank you for my wholeheart.
Oh breathing love into you.
You're welcome.
Karna Liv Nau (42:03):
You are so freaking welcome.
We never know who we're goingto be.
To each other, I can say thesame.
That's right.
Jessica (42:08):
We're so living your design.
It's beautiful.
So much, really, how embodiedyou are in your purpose.
Karna Liv Nau (42:15):
I'm salivating.
I love that, if I could shareit, yes.
Jessica (42:18):
I want it on the record Wee Gate 25 is the gate of
universal love and innocence.
The gift is acceptance, whichyou talked a lot about.
You didn't use that exact word,but you did.
46 is delight and ecstasy andlove of the body and how
children just move through lifein that really surrendered way.
And then on the left side, weshare numbers.
You have 58, which is the giftof vitality, and you're talking
(42:41):
about joy, right and 52 is thegift of stillness, which is
about slowing down.
I mean check, check check.
These are your four numbers inthe cross of healing and you
just talked about all of theseenergies through the whole hour
and I was just sitting here likeI don't know when it is I was
just doing it Because it works.
Karna Liv Nau (43:01):
Thank you so much for that reflection and because
this gosh darn ungrateful workthat nobody in the muggle world
will acknowledge I'm not gettingno facts.
So when I hear you say that youknow, you know I'm talking
about I'm not just the money,because it's true, but, to be
reflected, this is the beauty ofthe work that you do.
It could be able to like seesomeone.
I've been living my design,I've been doing the
(43:24):
deconditioning and it actuallyfrickin' works.
And it's so messy, it's sodifficult sometimes and it's so
worth it.
It's like I would do it allover again a million times.
Yeah, this works, you're worthit.
Discomfort, we're worth thepain.
Because now, the gratitude thatI feel of being alive right now
and this moment in time and thebeauty that I see, like even the
(43:46):
two of you, I just I have suchreverence that we get to be
alive right now and I thinkthat's because I've been able to
let go so much of theinternalized trauma and the
rewards are infinite.
It's such a gift to bevalidated in that way and I
didn't expect that, so it's likethe best surprise that I could
have ever gotten.
So thank you for being you anddoing this work and surprising
(44:06):
me in this light for a way Bothof you and I am so grateful for
the two of you rocking it andshowing up like this I feel
hopeful, I feel a lot of hopeand I hope that this will result
in some in-person dance partiesat some point.
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
Before we begin this episode,we want to acknowledge the
conversation contained sensitiveand potentially triggering
content related to experiencesof trauma and healing.
(01:07):
We understand that discussingsuch topics can be difficult and
may bring up some strongemotions.
We encourage you to prioritizeyour well-being and consider if
this episode is right for you atthis moment.
If you choose to engage withthis episode, we hope it
provides insights and support.
We have an incredible guest heretoday who has been a very
special part of my life.
I'll dive into that later inthe episode, but I want to
(01:29):
introduce Karna Livnau.
She's an alignment marketingstrategist who incorporates
feminist and feminine principlesinto her work.
She collaborates with leaderswith an impactful message who
want to detox from patriarchalbusiness practices, embrace
their uniqueness as an asset inthe market and make money while
making a difference.
Don't we all want that?
(01:50):
Her work centers on helping herclients and cultivating a
thriving marketing ecosystem toget traction, joy and sales from
marketing instead offrustration, feeling inauthentic
and creatively stifled.
She believes that a womanaligned with her gifts can be
the change our beautiful worldso desperately needs.
We jump right in in thisepisode so our amazing Jessica
(02:12):
Rose is able to tell a lot aboutsomebody through the art of
human design.
So the episode just jumps rightin on Jessica being able to
identify a very important pieceof Karna's chart.
We hope you enjoy this episode.
Jessica (02:26):
I'm correct.
Melissa (02:29):
You knew it.
Oh my gosh.
Jessica (02:32):
Oh my god.
I said to Melissa there is agate in human design, gate 25.
It's called the Gate ofInnocence.
And I was reading this reallyprofound piece of writing that
you did and you talked aboutreclaiming your innocence
despite some trauma and somepain that you have lived through
.
There's a quote in it and Ishared it with Melissa.
(02:54):
The quote was there is nothinganyone can do to me to reduce my
inherent worth, innocence andpure goodness.
And I said there is a lifemission in human design where I
literally use those words, whereI say that innocence gets
tested and it is the path of thespiritual warrior to return to
(03:15):
that innocence, no matter whathappens, that we are not our
pain.
Innocence in this sense isuniversal love.
To return to universal love.
And I said I bet she has gate25 in her chart and your son
expression is gate 25, this gateof innocence.
So you're living your lifemission.
We're like 30 seconds in.
It shows up in the cross ofhealing and the cross of the
(03:37):
vessel of love and you're on thecross of healing.
Karna Liv Nau (03:40):
Boom Mic drop.
Well, I love that.
I love it to have thatreflection back.
You know it's very powerful tobe reflected back.
I think one of the mostfundamental gifts of human
design is to be able to mirroroneself and something so
profoundly.
That's what these tools are for, in my opinion, my experience,
it's like the ability to justfeel that there's something
(04:01):
reflecting back because we're onthis deep conditioning journey
from a new human design language.
It's the deep conditioning andfor you to like pick up on that,
it feels just really soothingbecause it's you know, it's in
conjunction to my professionalwork.
My personal path has alwaystaken the front seat, and so for
that to come through it feelsvery empowering and just feels
really good.
(04:21):
So, thank you for saying that.
Jessica (04:23):
Thank you for letting me share that and for seeing me.
Yeah, well, my pleasure.
Well, thank you for yourvulnerable share.
I was really moved by yourwriting and what you were
willing to share so openly.
I'm so sorry for what youexperienced and what you had to
go through, and then I'm alsostruck by your incredible
warrior spirit and ability todig deep through that and return
(04:46):
to love and return to yoursense of self in such a
beautiful way and then be ableto pass that gift on to others.
That's really profound to me,so thank you for that.
Karna Liv Nau (04:58):
Well, what I desire is what one of my biggest
pleasures in life is to be ableto take something so horrifying
like the worst thing that couldever happen.
So you're talking about a pieceof content that I wrote.
It's called what I learnedabout love from being raped,
right.
So we're jumping into the deepend here right away which I'm
not surprised with the two ofyou that were able to do that
and to be able to know that thisis something that so many
(05:22):
people have experienced in theirlife I mean, victim shaming and
blaming is alive and well evenin 2023, you know and so to be
able to take all of that andjust shed it and say like, no,
this is nothing, this is nothingto do with me.
It's empowering stance to gothrough a transition of saying I
was a victim, but not stayingin victim consciousness, and so
(05:44):
to be able to take that andshare it, and for that to have
value for someone else, becauseI know humanity at large is so
beautiful and struggling rightnow.
At the same time, there's somuch suffering and so much
beauty.
They want to be born to be ableto take some of the things that
I've learned and feeling like,okay, this is actually
fortifying someone else, notnecessarily to go on the path
that I did, but it's likespiritual sustenance.
You know, to take somethingfrom what I've done.
(06:06):
You're right, I'm very fierceabout this.
There's a real childlike partof me and then there's the real
fierce part of me and I loveboth of them very much.
Jessica (06:14):
I think they go together, I think they're
actually one in the same.
Or I think we diminishinnocence, right, we become a
little bit condescending aroundit, but I actually think it is
an incredible power, anincredible strength that reminds
all of us of who we really areyou know, the truth of who we
really are, that we are justlove, and I think that is the
(06:34):
most powerful thing that thereis.
Karna Liv Nau (06:37):
Yes, absolutely.
Jessica (06:39):
I feel this podcast has been for me, a lesson in
vulnerability and it's been ajourney for me getting more and
more comfortable to share, youknow, these raw pieces of myself
in a public way.
I'm like in a vulnerabilityhangover, like all the time, and
at the same time, what keeps megoing is the experience that I
(07:01):
had reading your piece.
When people do actually open upand share, I feel so
transformed, I feel so muchsafer in my humanity, I feel so
much braver to show up in theworld and feel connected through
our shared humanity.
So, yeah, it's a reminder to meas well of why I do this and
why we're here in the space andthe importance of that.
Karna Liv Nau (07:23):
And I think vulnerability hangovers are real
.
But I have a curiosity becauseI was thinking today when I was
peeing, because that's where Ido a lot of my best work.
Melissa (07:34):
Sure.
Karna Liv Nau (07:35):
Yeah, okay.
I've been in a lot ofconversation lately with people
around how to take up space,vulnerability and take care of
ourselves at the same time.
If you're looking at a socialmedia platform, these are the
rules of engagement X, y and Z.
Like, if you want to besuccessful here, you have to do
it this way, we're being toldright.
So here's how to do it for thealgorithm.
Here's how to do it to capturesomeone's attention really
(07:58):
quickly.
Here's how to get them to takeaction step.
There's all these things thatwe're being asked to do.
I'm really in the curiosityright now.
What's the benefit and what'sthe cost of each of these things
?
If I'm being really vulnerableand I'm getting more like clicks
for that and likes and shares,maybe that would lead me to do
more of that.
Maybe, when I'm not even ready,I'm really inviting people into
(08:19):
a conversation of like, makingsure that you are being cared
for in that process as well.
How do we do this now?
Because our mental healthmatters, our bottom line matters
, the things that arecultivating matters.
Melissa (08:32):
And I think that this speaks to your rebellious side
in the way in which you dobusiness, because you're not a
traditional marketer.
I mean, this is the whole pointof alignment, marketing right
or being in alignment.
What are your values?
What do you care about?
What is safe for your nervoussystem?
Well, simultaneously gettingout of your comfort zone.
If we're speaking of visibility, yes, and I think this is the
(08:54):
hardest part of running abusiness to me doing the things
you're supposed to do, versusdoing the things that you want
to do, and then doing some ofthe things that you're supposed
to do that push you out of yourcomfort zone, but you can do it
in a way that honors you.
Karna Liv Nau (09:07):
So one question that you had in your podcast
note is who do you think you hadto be and who are you?
Did you say that?
Melissa (09:14):
That's correct.
That's usually how we start,but we jumped in through human
design.
Oh, I'm bringing it back.
Jessica (09:19):
Well, you're full circle but yeah, that's where we
usually start.
Who are you and how is thatdifferent from who you thought
you were supposed to be?
Karna Liv Nau (09:28):
So for me it was make sure the other people are
comfortable.
That's who you are.
You are what is good foreverybody and that's not who I
am.
Sovereignty is a big buzzwordbut for me the sovereign
conversation was always aroundshifting my allegiance from an
external authority to becominginternally referenced.
Who I was told to be was likethis you know, it's basically I
(09:51):
was a means to an end and mypersonality was sick.
Like I crafted a real goodpersonality and I was so in tune
, like I was so hyper,vigilantly dialed in, but my
internal lived experience prettyconstant anxiety, the good girl
syndrome.
And then you have the culturallayer of Sweden.
There's thing called JantheLagen.
(10:12):
It's the law of Janthe, it'sbasically the equivalent would
be like tall poppy syndrome,like everybody has to be the
same.
So for me I had so many giftsand talents and I had to like
really shrink them down, likepick a lane.
You can only be good at onething.
And part of who I actually wasas I'm a writer, I'm a zone by
(10:32):
instructor.
Now, like I teach them by everyFriday because they bring joy.
I have my sub stack because itbrings me joy.
It's not something I'mmonetizing.
I teach marketing and I'mcomfortable being more than one
thing.
And that is so liberatingbecause I was always told pick a
lane.
Jessica (10:50):
So what was your journey of healing through that?
How did you discover who youreally are?
Karna Liv Nau (10:56):
I had a lot of help.
I think the real catalyst waswhen I started working with
autistic kids.
I was going to become atherapist.
I graduated top of my class.
I went from having like theworst grades and then I had like
a huge shift around 16.
My sister was like I know herparents don't tell you this,
because my parents weren'tconcerned with academia.
They kind of left me to my owndevices.
(11:18):
My sister was like the gradestells you what college you get
into it.
I'm like, oh shit, I'm going toget some good grades.
I know nobody told you this,but you're smart, you can do
this.
And I actually I had anabortion when I was 16 and
that's really what did it.
Something inside of me shiftedand I'm so grateful for that
experience.
It was the most brutalexperience of my life after that
(11:39):
time, but it shifted me.
And then my sister coming inand like giving me that guidance
.
And then in Sweden you have towork for one year to become a
therapist and I had like twohours missing to be able to get
in and I was like what the hell?
And then I saw this sign andsaid do you want the most
interesting job in the worldLike heck, yeah, I do.
It turned out I was working withautistic kids and I'm sure
(12:00):
you're familiar with people withautism.
They are very sincere humanbeings Like they cannot fake.
I was faking it and so Icouldn't make a connection.
I was like I'm going to be thebest caregiver you've ever had
and they were like not going totalk to you for months on end
and it was just this painfulthing.
I kept bringing cool toys andbeing more animated and all the
things I knew how to do, likemanipulate and nothing.
(12:21):
And then one day I got thereand Jacob, who I was working
with, was sick that day and Iwas like, well, I took the 20
minutes to get to this townoutside of where they lived.
And I was like, well, I'm justgoing to hang out.
And so we ended up hanging outand before long we were rolling
around on the floor singingopera at the top of our lungs
and I was like holy shit, likewhat just happened, and just
(12:42):
like shifted something in myfundamental understanding.
I didn't know that at the time.
Of course I was like 20something.
I ended up wanting to go to theoption Institute.
It's like a self-help place inWestern Mass.
So I flew from Sweden toWestern Mass and I found my
people.
These people are into God,they're into spirit, they're
into self-help.
I'm going to live in America.
I can't stay in Sweden, eventhough it's an incredible place
(13:03):
in many ways.
I felt very stifled there.
It felt like the smallest boxfor me to exist in.
Option set me on a course tothe Institute for Integrative
Nutrition and after that I movedto Boulder and it was on every
healer, every, every healer.
I mean.
I wrote a blog post.
I think I tried 87 modalities.
Jessica (13:19):
Wow, wow, you've been around the block.
Melissa (13:22):
The stories I can tell yeah, Boulder has everything.
Karna Liv Nau (13:26):
I just did every single healing modality that you
could think of and through thatjourney it's been very much
like a unfolding.
I know, yes, it was mypart-time job, jessica I never
have worked like a 45-hour week.
I was kept thinking, if I workhard enough at it, I'll be done,
(13:46):
I'll be done.
And then I realized it couldwork.
Jessica (13:49):
Well, your life mission is the cross of healing.
Melissa (13:54):
Well, yes, full circle, yes.
Karna Liv Nau (13:57):
Full circle.
I mean, yes, if there was aspiritual Olympics, I would have
the gold medal, because I'm socommitted to this.
First it was about learning tolove myself, and then it was
about surrendering to thisbigger, to the bigger plan, if
you will, or to God, as I defineit, and that's where I'm at
right now.
So you're finding me in thisdeep surrender place where I'm
having to give up a lot ofthings that kept me feeling safe
(14:18):
and in control and comfortableand going out and saying that I
have something that I think isvaluable to share with the world
, and that's kind of why we'rehere.
Jessica (14:26):
So how did marketing become your passion?
Karna Liv Nau (14:29):
Well, I kind of slipped in there on a banana
field.
I really didn't want to domarketing Like the last thing I
wanted to do On a banana field.
When I came to Boulder, I juststarted working at this place
called the Institute for thePsychology of Eating.
It was right when we weretaking a live training and
putting it online and early days, like Facebook was new all
these things were new.
The person I worked for she waslike oh, early adopter, she
(14:52):
took every single training, so Iwas just kind of her right hand
woman.
So I ended up being a righthand woman for multiple
companies.
I was the director of events ofa company called Emerging Women
.
So that's when my passion wasreally stoked.
I was at the intersection oftechnology artistry.
It was like a very powerfulexperience for me witnessing
Bernay Brown and Liz Gilbertbecoming friends and our Anna
(15:13):
Huffington, willanis, merced,terraria, trent we had Dane
Goodall.
So it was like these youngwomen, older women from arts,
from tech, and just witnessingit and I was like this world is
incredible.
And then I started seeing thetoxicness of it and behind the
scenes and I was like whoa, dude, what is going on here?
And I became like a little PILike what's going on with these
(15:34):
women?
What are we doing?
How do we do business andmarketing?
And then I started becoming aconsultant and had a nap for it.
I'm just always trying andtesting and see what's working.
And then I started a smallboutique marketing agency around
feminine principles and thatevolved beyond the feminine.
Then I found what I now teachwith the alignment component.
So what I say about whatalignment is is write
(15:55):
relationship with source, writerelationship with myself, with
other and with the planet.
So it's really an approach thatcould go with anything.
I happen to apply the lens tomarketing, but I think it
applies to any relationship orwhatever.
I love it and I also have ahard time with it because it's
so difficult.
So it is my passion, because Ibelieve there's a different way
that we can do it, and I want tobe part of that solution and I
(16:17):
want to support that kind of analternative structure.
Jessica (16:21):
I come from a very different background than both
of you and I think there are alot of people who are tuning in,
who are entrepreneurs, andthere's also a lot of people who
aren't.
It doesn't mean they don't havea soul passion that they're
pursuing.
So I'm actually wondering if wecan just break it down a little
bit more to the basics of whatis marketing even and just help
reframe it, because I thinkwe're all doing it, but give the
(16:44):
access point into thisconversation.
Karna Liv Nau (16:47):
That's so important.
Thank you for being that bridgeto the gap.
This is not like a universalanswer.
This is my answer, okay, so Iwant to start by prefacing with
that.
So marketing is, let's say, youhave something you want to
share with the market and themarketing is the activities
you're doing to bring people into want to buy the thing that
you're selling.
And that could even be like Ialso have a sub-stack, or having
(17:07):
a creative pursuit, or you wantto share what you're doing on
your vacation or whatever it isLike.
You want to be relevant to thepeople that you're talking to,
like your family or whatever.
So when you're puttingsomething out there, I think
it's very human to be wanting.
We want to be seen, we want tobe heard, we want to be
reflected.
Do we want to have connection?
So we're trying to make aconnection and then someone
wants that thing, whether theyengage with in some way or if
(17:28):
they want to buy the thing.
I think that's ultimately like.
The bottom line is like how dowe show up in a way that's
authentic to us?
The marketing component is whatare the things you could do to
increase the likelihood ofsomeone knowing that they want
to purchase or engage with yourthing and then also convert.
So there's like a lingo in hereand I want to stay away from
that.
But does that make sense forwhat I'm saying?
(17:50):
I operate off of more principlesthan steps.
I think this is where I see alot of people going into like
marrying human design withmarketing, because it allows you
to have a unique approach toyou.
I look through the lens ofwhat's your gifts and talents?
What lights you up?
Where is your creative genius?
And then there's another thingaround their creativity.
So I try to tie their marketingplan to creativity.
(18:14):
I have, like all these systemsand principles, and then I find
out who are you and then I gookay, now we're going to tailor
this around you.
And I wish that people would dothis more, because I think when
we try to go outside ofourselves and do someone else's
approach, there's a lot ofsuffering that happens.
It doesn't usually work verywell, and then what ends up
happening is the person startsinternalizing it and making
(18:34):
about them.
They're like I suck atmarketing, I suck at this.
And it's like well, do you suckat marketing or did you suck at
this person's way of doing it?
We've been reduced into like ablack or white kind of a reality
and the magic happens in thegray zone.
Did this come for the testing?
So I always have to coachpeople into getting
uncomfortable in some way.
If you're doing marketing Likethere's no way around it, you're
(18:57):
going to have to beuncomfortable.
So I'm very much about let's goout there and see where
resonates.
And I get people excited aboutgetting no likes, no shares.
This is not about who isreacting to you right up front.
This is about you saying toyourself I believe that my thing
matters so much that I'm goingto speak.
I am doing this for myself.
I believe in myself so much.
Melissa (19:16):
I literally teared up and I was like, whoa, it was not
an emotional sentence that yousaid, but when you said I'll
just cry, like when you said Ibelieve in myself so much that
I'm going to keep showing up.
It's so hard and I was thinkingabout this a lot the last few
days, specifically because I amdoing a lot with marketing and
(19:37):
showing up very consistently,and I was reflecting on
consistency and I was like Ihave consistently shown up for
my entire adult life and I thinkthat it's important to talk
about how hard it can feel,especially in business, and I
like to do it.
But when you get into therabbit hole of what am I getting
for what I'm giving, it can bereally emotionally draining.
Karna Liv Nau (20:02):
The thing is, the way that the game is set up at
this point is reallydemoralizing for a lot of people
.
I think another layer of thisthat I want to emphasize, and I
think it's important for peopleto know even if they're being
marketed to you know what I'msaying, like if they're the ones
receiving this is relevant,whether you're participating as
a consumer or someone who'soffering a service or a product.
(20:24):
Something I've thought a lotabout is where does consumption
come from?
Like, where are the core values?
They come from capitalism, andI think a lot of people went
through a huge transformationduring the pandemic, awakened to
like we want something more.
There was always parameters ofsuccess, and we're like shifting
what those parameters are.
(20:45):
I feel like people are tired ofbeing put through funnels and
being sold in a certain way, andpeople are getting tired of
selling that way.
We're innovating a new way ofdoing this beyond capitalism,
late stage capitalism.
It's hard because in some way,we have to play by some of the
rules of engagement in themarketplace, but also we want to
innovate.
So I want to explore, like,what can we do that's empowering
(21:06):
?
What are the steps that we cantake to move forward, while
acknowledging that this is notreally working for a lot of
people and it's painful.
Melissa (21:13):
Yeah, I think the thing that I'm present to is how easy
it is to get sucked back in,even when you know better, even
when you're trying to beincredibly intentional about how
you're showing up in yourbusiness and life.
It's so much easier to getsucked back into the system than
it is to rise above it, to bemore intentional about it, to be
(21:35):
more innovative about it, and Ithink it's something that
everybody whether you're acreative or you're an
entrepreneur or you're incorporate you're impacted by
this system that is in place.
Like, how do I not fit in thisbox that the system has built
around me and show up in adifferent way, even when all
these things around me aretelling me no?
Jessica (21:57):
I think where I'm confused is how can you
disengage from the system and bepart of the system at the same
time as consumers wereoverwhelmed and we wanna opt out
.
And then we're also talkingabout how do we show up and
market and sell our message.
So can you help me kind ofunderstand those strings that
(22:18):
seem to me right now to be ableto get entangled?
I would love to.
Karna Liv Nau (22:22):
Nothing would make me happier, of course,
cause it is messy.
Right, let's be messy together.
Let's explore the difficultparts of the conversation.
That's the best part, cause Iwanna be uncomfortable together.
So let's go there, and Iappreciate you being so open,
because a lot of times you canjust go out so far and be like,
well, that sounds great, let'smove on.
So one thing that we have to doand this is the hardest part for
me is to slow down and to feelour bodies know that itself.
(22:46):
So we have to know ourselves.
We have to do the inner work,to have discernment of like what
do I wanna participate in, whatdo I don't wanna participate in
?
By slowing everything down,we're able to use our body as a
tool.
We have to learn what is theway that I practice discernment,
and as a consumer, I don't buysomething if someone tries to
put false curiosity in there.
That's like a principle of mine.
(23:06):
Like you try to do that, you'renot my person, because I don't
engage in that way but we findpeople who are in alignment with
who we are and who we wanna be.
So we can consume from peoplewho are doing things differently
.
And if we're talking aboutsomeone who is trying to put
something out there.
We gotta figure out what areyour core values Like.
Who are you and what do youstand for.
How does this feel right now?
(23:27):
And you find the path forwardthat feels in alignment with who
you are, and that is work, andit's also a lot of play.
We can start this conversationtalking about innocence.
So another cool part aboutinnocence is that I believe we
need to bring play back into theconversation, like what
actually brings me joy and howdo I participate in things that
give me joy?
How do we lower ourselves downand just say, well, what's the
(23:48):
right next step?
And I feel in my body that, yes, like I'm in line with this,
this is 100% right.
Jessica (23:53):
I think I'm trying to distill something down, because
I hear you and I think yourpassion is using the medium of
marketing, but it is somethingthat transcends marketing right,
yes, baby, and I want us tothank you for saying that.
Yeah, and I want us to find thewords for it.
I think it's right in there inwhat you said.
(24:14):
What was coming to me was howdo we get our hearts message out
into the world?
Karna Liv Nau (24:21):
Yes, baby.
Jessica (24:22):
That's what came to me.
Does that resonate for you?
Does that feel true as what thepassion is, or is it deeper
than that?
Karna Liv Nau (24:28):
The passion is for each individual to be who
they truly are and to take whothey truly are and find the way
to take up their rightful place.
I call it, and it can be as bigor as small as it is.
It's their rightful place whenthey dream at night, when
someone lies awake and they seethemselves and they're doing all
these things.
That's who I want to help.
That's my passion of allowingpeople to actually be their true
(24:50):
selves and helping navigatethat into a bigger platform.
Jessica (24:54):
Right.
So how do we show up in theworld in a bigger way?
How do we take the essence ofus, our authenticity, our hearts
, and take up space and show upin the world in the full
expression of who we are?
Karna Liv Nau (25:08):
But it's mostly for our own self.
My experience of the peoplethat I serve is it's like a
self-love practice that then, bytaking up the space and owning
yourself and doing this work,sparks that in the other and it
might be different for them, butthis is like a candle to a
flame, to a flame to a flame,because ultimately I think my
real dream is to alleviate thesuffering of humanity because
(25:29):
we're so hurt.
The sister wound is real, themother wound is real, the father
wound is real, the persecutionwound is real.
These are the cycle breakers.
It's like there was a wholelineage that couldn't feel what
we're allowing ourselves to feel, like we were the first in our
lineage that had the privilege,the capacity, the space to feel
(25:51):
the truth.
Jessica (25:52):
So now I feel like we can cycle back, because now I
feel like I understand the bigpicture and tell me, you tell me
.
Karna Liv Nau (25:59):
I'm very eager to find out.
Jessica (26:01):
Yeah, so I want to cycle back then to what Melissa
was sharing in your vulnerableshare, and when you said we need
to have this kind ofconversation, then to me and
please let me know if I'mmisinterpreting but the
marketing that we're talkingabout is how do we take up space
and show up in the world in ourfull authenticity, without
(26:23):
apology, and feel safe?
How do we feel safe to do that,even if we're not being
received, which is, I think, thepain that the majority of us
actually feel, and what kind ofshuts us down from actually
showing up?
You know, in a way, everyonewho has social media, anyone who
has Instagram, we're marketing.
That is what it is.
Let's call it what it is, but Idon't want to rub you the wrong
(26:46):
way, but in my human designwork, I tell a lot of people not
to market at all.
Projectors.
If they try to marketthemselves, solicit themselves
in some way, it actually has theopposite effect.
It tends to repel people andthey're like well, what do I do?
How do I put this out into theworld?
And I say authentic sharingwithout an agenda.
Karna Liv Nau (27:02):
Exactly and wait for the invitation.
I mean, yeah, rub away, baby.
That is music to my ear.
I think that's great.
I mean you're giving thempermission to do something and
so that's what I was sharingwith you is how I do it around
their authentic gifts andtalents.
I mean I have to put a label onit and people understand what
marketing is.
So this is like a shortcut thatI'm taking to something deeper.
(27:24):
I agree with you how soothingfor those people is exactly who
I'm talking about, the peoplewho've been out there doing the
cookie cutter, and then theyhate themselves and then you
come in and you say, hey, howabout drop all that?
Start sharing authenticallyfrom your heart, with no agenda.
You still have to show up andmeet new people perhaps, or
whatever it is.
That's kind of their edge.
There's ways that they could dothat, because another
(27:46):
difficulty that I've found withthat kind of approach now I'm
hoping I'm not rubbing you thewrong way where people then
become almost complacent andthen they get resentful for that
reason because they're notdoing the authentic sharing part
and they're like I'm justsitting here waiting for them to
date.
Jessica (28:00):
I'm like you still got to have to show up, right.
Well, I think the work isbecoming so embodied and
empowered in yourself and whatyou have to offer, and knowing
you have value and sharing it inservice.
Because it is a value.
You have to know your worthright and want to be generous
with that.
And when you're doing that,then we can't help but see you.
(28:23):
And so I think we're marketing,or even just the terminology of
marketing and how it tends torub me the wrong way, is, to me,
marketing has an agenda.
It's this idea that I have tosell myself.
And that is so out of the linesof the work that I just happen
to do, right, but I actuallythink there is a different
quality that we're touching onhere that I really, really
appreciate.
(28:43):
So how again going back to thisearlier conversation how do we
let go of the agenda?
Because I think it's in theagenda that we actually end up
feeling hurt when it isn'treceived.
Melissa (28:58):
Yeah, and I have some before you answer.
I want to jump in because Ihave done sales for 18 years and
I mean marketing and sales canget sort of meshed up together
in a lot of ways.
Where does one end and onebegin?
Right, but sales people'sbiggest fear is I don't want to
feel salesy.
Well, the agenda is the salesy.
The agenda is when you'reputting your own needs above
(29:22):
somebody else's, when you're notjust being genuinely curious,
asking questions, figuring outlike well, what do you need?
Like do I have anything thatyou need?
And if I do, then like great,let's figure this out.
But the fear is always in theagenda, because that is what
makes people feel gross.
And so I think it's the same inmarketing, and I think it's the
same in sales and it's the samein business, it's the same in
(29:44):
life, it's the same inrelationships.
It's like showing up in a waythat you're genuinely curious
about the other person and maybeyou have something to offer
them and maybe you don't, butyou're not trying to force it
upon them just because you needto meet your quota.
I'd love your take on it fromthe marketing lens.
So ask me the question again,jessica.
Jessica (30:01):
Oh, I don't know if it was a clear question, but I
think it is showing up with theagenda.
That makes us sad when wearen't received, because we have
expectations right, we attachresults, we are seeking external
validation right.
Karna Liv Nau (30:15):
Yes, exactly.
So you've two.
Spoke to two components a lotof from my perspective which is
the external validation and thelack of curiosity of the agenda.
So for me it would be.
This is where it isn't actuallymarketing to your point,
jessica.
I'm just using that languagebecause it's something that
people understand to then invitethem into a deeper conversation
(30:37):
of like.
For me, this is our one wildand wonderful life.
This life is short and it'svery precious and it matters how
we spend our time.
So there's all these shifts,there's a lot of the
conditioning that has to happenin that process, but one thing
is that we have to let go ofbeing in control and it's really
about trusting life.
(30:58):
I do a lot of guided meditation.
So one of my favorite thingsthat I do because I'm speaking
to my subconscious mind, like alot of our fears right, they
don't live.
They live in the amygdala andthey live in the body.
They live in a nervous system.
They don't live in where we'rethinking consciously.
So I often imagine myself likeas life is a river or a body of
water, and this is where it'slike what's rightfully mine,
(31:20):
when I show up and shareauthentically.
I want to trust that lifebrings me the things that are
rightfully mine and I can trustwhat comes my way and if I'm
curious and aware and taking itslow and being in this more
receptive state.
So it's like this dance betweenI'm putting myself out there
but I'm receiving also.
It's like this real yin yangkind of left brain, right brain,
(31:43):
strategy, surrender, it's both,and I'm always talking about
both.
And because we cannot reduce itto like a single way, it's like
a martial art, it's like yourmeaning life right there.
And so the hardest part is tosay yes to whatever life brings
you.
And I talk about suspendingjudgment a lot.
I'm saying like gosh, darn it.
Life is so good and love is sobig and it's so much bigger than
(32:04):
what I can perceive with mylittle 240 watt megabyte I don't
know how many megabytes you canprocess my brain cannot process
the magnitude and thegorgeousness and the
intelligence.
Thus I have to allow and that'swhere the body has so much more
intelligence.
It's like a symphony between,like, if you think about it from
a chakra perspective, we'reactivating all the chakras and
(32:25):
we're participating and allowingit to come, and we're saying I
believe that love is, and sowhatever showing up right now is
love and I'm going to stay herestubbornly.
There's a Maria Popova courtabout this.
It's like I'm just going tostand here stubbornly until this
turns into love because I knowit will if I suspend judgment
long enough and I've luckilybeen around on the fun long
enough that that's actually beentrue for me.
(32:47):
The greatest adversities thatI've been through has been my
best teachers.
Now I feel grateful for it.
I didn't start out feelinggrateful for it and I hope you
can bring someone who can talk alittle bit about spiritual
bypassing onto the podcast,because we want to rush into
premature forgiveness.
We want to like oh honey, I'mjust, I'm feeling this now.
I'm just like I just got to, Igot to take a second.
(33:08):
This is really important to me,what we're talking about now,
thank you.
I just got into, like I got intothe head of it as I was
explaining it and then I sawMelissa's face and it like
punched me down into my heartand realizing this is what I am,
this is it, you know trust andfaith.
It's so hard because sometimesholding the faith, holding the
(33:29):
candle, when seemingly there'snothing there, it's almost like,
as I walk through the valley ofshadow death, I should fear no
evil.
I have been so many times inthat void where all I have is my
faith and love, and it's hardand I want to be there with
people who want to be in thisconversation with me.
So that's what I'm showing upwith in my work, and my passion
(33:50):
is not so much that I have allthe answers, but I have good
questions and I have really goodsnacks and I love you.
Melissa (33:58):
Snacks are very important on the spiritual path
and when my gatherings oh mygosh, I really you're also
talking to like your child and Ihave snacks.
Karna Liv Nau (34:09):
I mean that's another thing.
You know I do internal familysystems where there's parts, and
sometimes I have to be like theinner child.
I mean right now I'm steppingout in the big way and I have to
reassure her so much, so much,so much in her mothering.
And I've been fortunate enoughto work with one of my clients,
bethany Webster, and I'velearned a lot about inner
mothering from her.
But there's a lot of trust andso it's a journey and I'm
(34:31):
grateful I get to go on with you.
Jessica (34:34):
You know, earlier Melissa shared your hard week
and I relate to this question.
It's like I'm showing up, I'mgiving it my all, I'm doing all
of the things and then sometimesit feels like it never is quite
being received or getting offthe ground.
And you also brought up how doyou take care of yourself in
this space of vulnerabilitywhere, okay, you keep showing up
(34:57):
, you keep being generous withyourself and maybe it's not
quite aligning yet?
What do you suggest, Like whatwould be the next step?
Karna Liv Nau (35:07):
It's a beautiful question.
I always going to answer everyone where it's like it depends.
You know it's kind of like myMO, but I will come to you with
this.
You stop.
The actual answer could be youneed a new strategy.
It could be like you need abath.
It could be like you need tocall a friend, like it could be
many things and everyone willhave a different response to
this.
But I do think that there's anavoidance, like there's
(35:27):
something I'm avoiding in myself.
We just got to stop, turntoward and tend to whatever is
hurting or whatever feelsdisconnected, and be like you
have shown up, validate, youknow you did show up so much.
If we're talking about partswork, it could be that you're in
a child is hurting.
It could be like a protectorpart that's activated.
Let's just say it's a part ofyou, someone in there is hurting
(35:49):
and someone needs to be heard,and if you can turn toward and
then get curious about that partand just say, like what do you
need?
I need to just stop.
I need to stop.
I need to go in nature rightnow Water, nature, friend, food,
like you know oh, I haven'tbeen sleeping, I will tell you
this so many times with me andmy clients, we get excited about
a project and then slowly allour self care slipping away
(36:12):
because we're so excited aboutthe thing and now we're got
depleted.
Then we're like it's not working, because, yeah, life is like
we're not gonna give you thegift, because you're not taking
care of yourself and that's yourjob, like you're self abandon.
If it's one thing about me thatI would share, it would be I
used to be someone who abandonedmyself for other people and now
I don't abandon myself.
So I want to say don't abandonyourself, turn toward that part
(36:35):
and love it the best way youknow how to do in that moment.
Jessica (36:38):
I'd also love to make the offering that I think we
tend to expect instant results.
Karna Liv Nau (36:44):
Oh gosh.
Jessica (36:45):
And I love that.
Earlier you said go slow andthat I think is a big part of it
trusting the process andtrusting the time that things
take and that if it's notdelivering instantaneous results
it does not mean it's notworking.
Karna Liv Nau (36:59):
No.
Jessica (36:59):
The other thing that this podcast has taught me in
showing up more myself, moreauthentically, more vulnerably
in a public space, I amconfronting my shadow.
I am outing my shadow on aweekly basis.
Melissa (37:13):
Oh, yes, you are yeah.
Jessica (37:14):
The things that I'm sharing here are things that I
was sharing in the most privatespaces with my closest friends.
You know and I am doing thework as a human design reader
I'm also an actress.
All of the work that I do isrooted in authenticity, and so
it makes sense that my pathwould take me through the
deepest lessons that I wouldneed to move through in order to
(37:37):
truly be embodied inauthenticity.
But it does require movingthrough your shadow and a lot of
your deepest fears at least inmy case, that's been true and
when you're showing up publicly,that gets mirrored back to you
so intensely and you need to gogently, and you need to go
slowly, and you need to do deepself-care and love yourself
(38:00):
harder and you build resiliencythrough the process.
But it's almost like I thinkyou get as much as you can
handle right now so that you canlike build capacity.
Capacity, capacity, that's it.
You can build capacity.
Karna Liv Nau (38:16):
That's it, you nailed it.
Thanks, obviously, obviouslyPeople yeah, you said it
beautifully and know who tolisten to and who not to listen
to.
I got my first hater and I waspsyched.
I'm like I made it.
Jessica (38:33):
You made it.
Karna Liv Nau (38:35):
I made it.
Listen, I got someone who toldme I should stop dancing because
my marketing videos does notneed me to dance.
I'm like you are following thewrong person, but I'm psyched,
oh my gosh.
Melissa (38:44):
Because that's like somebody's biggest fear is what
if somebody doesn't like what Ihave to say and you're like, yes
, they didn't like it?
Karna Liv Nau (38:52):
Let's stop taking ourselves so seriously.
When you're in survival, youhave to, because everything is a
threat.
But in a fundous land, likewhen we play with people who
genuinely care about you and arekind and who will give you
feedback, they're going to haveyour back and haul you out, but
with so much love, like thoseother people and I have those
people like.
These are the five people thatcan have opinions about me.
The rest, fine.
(39:13):
Like that's your projections onme.
You don't really know me.
I'm going back to the fact thatI'm doing this because I
believe in my message and thethings that I've done have had
magnificent results, andsometimes it's just one person,
and I'm happy with that.
But I do have a big vision andI hope that this message will
touch more people, because Ithink more people need to be a
part of this conversation thatwe just had today.
Jessica (39:33):
I think what you spoke to, by the way, is about holding
that capacity right To have theone hater come and you be like.
Whatever is, the capacity thatneeds to be built Is all of the
work and the years of healingand moving through your own
shadow and coming into your ownself-love.
That doesn't even trigger youat all, it's just like whatever.
Karna Liv Nau (39:57):
Believe me, I have plenty of triggers, but in
this case, I feel I have built alot of capacity and I think we
can lend the capacity to eachother.
That's the beauty of anecosystem and this is what we're
creating Like.
We're building resiliencetogether because we're not
separate.
We're an ecosystem.
We are like trees with rootsthat are intersecting right now.
We're mushrooms, we're spores.
The communication that ishappening right now is words,
(40:18):
but it's energy.
It's so much bigger and deeper,more gorgeous, and we can get
further.
We're going to do this together.
Melissa (40:25):
I am so grateful for you being here.
You've played such aninstrumental part of my life,
especially as it relates to whatyou just said, at the very end
of really working together andhaving each other's back and
doing this in a different way.
You came into my life at thefirst.
She was the speaker at Createyour Ripple, like the very
beginning, like the seed of thisdream that's coming to life.
(40:47):
I don't even remember what Iwas looking for, but I was like
I need the most amazing personto come present at this
conference.
Who do you know?
And Kara gave me your name andI remember you were like the
stranger that I called that Iwas so afraid of calling because
I'm like who am I?
This woman is the director ofevents at Emerging Women.
(41:08):
She's getting this person onstage and this person on stage
and look at how amazing she isand she put my phone call.
This is crazy.
You took my phone call and thenyou were a hell yes to showing
up at the event.
And that was almost eight yearsago and I know it's fucking
crazy.
And so I just think of thesesliding door moments of picking
(41:29):
up the phone to call a strangerwho happened to be you who
happens to be on our podcasttoday, eight years later, and so
much life has happened andyou're such a cheerleader for
women and your work is profound.
You are love and you've alwaysbeen that way, from the moment I
met you eight years ago.
I love this full circle momentof having you on here and
getting to share your story, andI'm just so grateful for who
(41:52):
you've been in my life and Iknow that you have that presence
for so many other people inthis world.
So just thank you for my wholeheart.
Oh breathing love into you.
You're welcome.
Karna Liv Nau (42:03):
You are so freaking welcome.
We never know who we're goingto be.
To each other, I can say thesame.
That's right.
Jessica (42:08):
We're so living your design.
It's beautiful.
So much, really, how embodiedyou are in your purpose.
Karna Liv Nau (42:15):
I'm salivating.
I love that, if I could shareit, yes.
Jessica (42:18):
I want it on the record Wee Gate 25 is the gate of
universal love and innocence.
The gift is acceptance, whichyou talked a lot about.
You didn't use that exact word,but you did.
46 is delight and ecstasy andlove of the body and how
children just move through lifein that really surrendered way.
And then on the left side, weshare numbers.
You have 58, which is the giftof vitality, and you're talking
(42:41):
about joy, right and 52 is thegift of stillness, which is
about slowing down.
I mean check, check check.
These are your four numbers inthe cross of healing and you
just talked about all of theseenergies through the whole hour
and I was just sitting here likeI don't know when it is I was
just doing it Because it works.
Karna Liv Nau (43:01):
Thank you so much for that reflection and because
this gosh darn ungrateful workthat nobody in the muggle world
will acknowledge I'm not gettingno facts.
So when I hear you say that youknow, you know I'm talking
about I'm not just the money,because it's true, but, to be
reflected, this is the beauty ofthe work that you do.
It could be able to like seesomeone.
I've been living my design,I've been doing the
(43:24):
deconditioning and it actuallyfrickin' works.
And it's so messy, it's sodifficult sometimes and it's so
worth it.
It's like I would do it allover again a million times.
Yeah, this works, you're worthit.
Discomfort, we're worth thepain.
Because now, the gratitude thatI feel of being alive right now
and this moment in time and thebeauty that I see, like even the
(43:46):
two of you, I just I have suchreverence that we get to be
alive right now and I thinkthat's because I've been able to
let go so much of theinternalized trauma and the
rewards are infinite.
It's such a gift to bevalidated in that way and I
didn't expect that, so it's likethe best surprise that I could
have ever gotten.
So thank you for being you anddoing this work and surprising
(44:06):
me in this light for a way Bothof you and I am so grateful for
the two of you rocking it andshowing up like this I feel
hopeful, I feel a lot of hopeand I hope that this will result
in some in-person dance partiesat some point.
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