July 7, 2023 • 49 mins
Have you ever had a conversation so profound, it shifted your perspective? Imagine unraveling the power of connection and conversation and the profound impact it can have on your life, work, and relationships. That’s precisely what we’re exploring in this fascinating conversation with Lisa Kalfus, a connection alchemist and communication expert (yes, that's her job!) as we dig deep into the nature of vulnerability, courageous authenticity, and the magic of storytelling.
Navigating conversations can be tricky. Whether it's awkward small talk or the fear of asking deep questions, we often miss opportunities to build meaningful connections. Lisa expertly guides us by sharing how to ask inspiring questions, showcasing the power of language and appreciative inquiry in transforming our relationships. We also look at how letting go of assumptions and embracing curiosity can broaden horizons, create surprising connections, and even change your life. Her journey to creating a business around her passion will be inspiring to anyone who is looking to take a leap in their lives and do soul-aligned work without a roadmap.
We were also deeply struck by Lisa's presence and playfulness, and her ability to encourage not just connection with people but with life itself. This conversation inspired us to put down our phones, reach out to a loved one, and find new ways to deepen our connection to the world around us.
Topics in this episode:
- The power of asking questions
- How to have deep conversations / improve communication skills
- The importance of curiosity and how to foster it
- How to navigate uncomfortable conversations
- The role of assumptions in our interactions
- Creating a passion-based business
- The concept of wholeness in personal and professional identity
- The importance of vulnerability and authenticity
- The impact of revealing your true self in different environments
- Cultivating rituals in maintaining life balance and well-being
- Fostering connection through play
To connect with Lisa
Human Connection Facilitator, Coach & Experience Designer
- Founder/Chief Connector, Firestart Connections®
- Creator, Connection Hour ®
- Let's Connect! Linkedin
- Follow us on Facebook
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episod
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free monthly community call on the first Wednesday of every month, join here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Melissa (00:39):
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
Welcome to the Inner RebelPodcast.
I am here with my co-host,jessica, hello hello.
And a dear Lisa Kalfus, isjoining us today.
(01:02):
Hi, Lisa.
The lady with the coolest jobtitle ever.
I am so excited.
I know Jessica is so excitedand she's meeting Lisa for the
first time and you and I met ata party with a live camel.
What Before COVID right?
Lisa Kalfus (01:25):
Totally.
I love surprises.
It was a friend's birthday andI showed up in surprise because
they always find that it's sogreat for connection.
And that is where I got to meetMelissa and see.
You just never know whereconnection is going to lead you.
Jessica (01:38):
it was a camel party, or just a camel happened to be
at the party.
Melissa (01:42):
That just happened.
There just happened to be acamel, because sometimes a camel
just wanders up into a party.
The gentleman whose birthday itwas he full on celebrates life
and he had a circus themed partyand so there was.
I mean, a camel was like one ofmany things that were like
camel level at this party forreal.
(02:03):
It was so amazing.
But she and I met and wecouldn't stop talking to each
other all night and we'vedeveloped such a special
friendship over the last fewyears And so I'm really excited
to have you on, because who youhave become since we met is a
pretty profound shift.
I mean, you've always been her,but you've taken on some big
(02:24):
leaps in your life and builtyour business and a lot has
happened.
So I'm excited to get to shareyou with our community.
Jessica (02:31):
I would also hope that you can't stop talking all night
to a conversation coach.
We ran out of topics.
Can you imagine It was like,wow, that was so awkward, what
are you?
Lisa Kalfus (02:43):
Yep.
I believe you can never run outof topics to talk about.
It's just you have to learn howto do that.
Melissa (02:48):
Yes, Well, i can't wait for you to teach people.
So Lisa is a connectionalchemist who's a master at
helping people have moreconnected conversations and
relationships.
She does this by askinginsightful questions and guiding
conversations that sparkpeople's curiosity in each other
.
Lisa deeply believes thequality of our relationships
determine the quality of ourlives and our success in
(03:10):
business, and the quality of ourconversations are the gateway
to strong relationships, and Iwill absolutely say you embody
that in every single interactionthat I've ever had with you.
So you really are the real deal.
Jessica (03:25):
In case anyone had any doubts, Can I please ask from
the get go what a connectionalchemist does, and can I be one
?
?
Melissa (03:36):
Yes, or maybe the person is one and maybe am I
already one.
Jessica (03:42):
I resonate so much I think you are actually I
resonate so much with it And Iwas like why didn't I think of
this?
Just tell us about that.
Lisa Kalfus (03:50):
Yeah, i consider it one that is just really trying
to spark human connection, andso I believe that my mission is
to really empower people toconnect better, with more
confidence, cultivate thoseauthentic relationships, real
deep connection, and also deeplyconnected workplace cultures
and communities, and so I thinkthat everyone can be an
(04:13):
alchemist.
You just really have to learnways to spark that and do it
with intention and really putother people first and really
care about the interaction somuch So I can immediately tell
Jessica, you love connecting,you love being able to do that
with one person that you're with, even in our short interaction,
(04:34):
before we even hit record, andthen also with others in life,
and so it's really about caringabout people and sparking those
connections in a meaningful way.
Jessica (04:43):
I care so much about it .
I think it is so foundationalto who I am.
I don't know how to do smalltalk And I think I learned it in
high school.
I think high school was when Idiscovered the art of asking
questions and it just opened upa whole world to me.
But I think I took it too far.
For a while.
I was just asking reallypersonal questions from the get
(05:04):
go and making peopleuncomfortable, and also it went
so far that I stopped sharingentirely, because if you ask
people enough questions, a lotof people don't have that
experience.
Very often I actually payattention when I'm at a
restaurant, at the tables aroundme and I'm like why do people
talk about?
because no one's asking eachother questions.
How do they actually haveconversations?
(05:26):
Are they just talking at eachother?
What do normal people do?
I don't know, because my rolehas always been the question
asker and often it means I'mleft out And also it meant that
I even found it uncomfortabletalking about myself unless I
was prompted by a question,because I felt like you can't be
(05:46):
interested if you're notexpressing curiosity.
So a lot of conversations endedup being really one sided and I
had to pull back a little bitand not make people
uncomfortable, because noteveryone is ready to go there.
So I don't even know if there'sa question in there.
Melissa (06:00):
With all that being said, You are a connection
alchemist that you answered yourown original question.
Jessica (06:06):
I would love to just open up this conversation off
the top about why isconversation so hard and is my
experience normal?
What normal people talk about,how do they do it And how do you
get in there and alchemize it?
Tell me what that process is.
Yeah, tell me more.
Lisa Kalfus (06:24):
Well, there's so much that you said in there and
that was really, really powerful, and so I want to unpack it a
little bit.
There were a handful of thingsyou said around what really
sparks you in conversation, whatwas interesting to you, and
then also recognizing thatdifferent people are in
different places, so yousometimes have to meet people
(06:45):
where they are and not scarethem off, and that also there's
this feeling of what iscomfortable, and how do I also
share my own story within that,so that it's a two-way dialogue,
and that is so important.
All those things, honestly, wedon't learn these skills in
school.
It sounded like you had thisexperience where you started to
(07:06):
learn how to ask betterquestions, and I'm curious if
you learned that in school oryou were a curious person of
life and you started to payattention and notice that.
Jessica (07:16):
I don't remember exactly how it started, but my
memory was I had a friend, andshe's still one of my best
friends today.
We got very close in highschool but we went to different
schools.
But I do remember every time wegot together We would have the
best conversations.
We could just talk for hourstogether and created such a deep
, intimate connection And I'veshared this with Melissa that we
(07:38):
even had a journal that wepassed back and forth And I
don't know, maybe it wasdissecting why our conversations
were so good, but it just feltso reciprocal.
We were just constantly probingeach other And I think we both
noted together that the worlddidn't do that, though the
people around us weren'tactually being very curious, and
so I kind of took it on as anidentity.
I was definitely going aroundand really pushing in high
(08:01):
school the boundaries of what Icould ask and how much I could
probe into people.
I think I did that throughuniversity as well, so I
apologize to people who knew methen at parties.
I don't know if I was funexactly, but I think that's
where it started.
I remember it being a verydistinct revelation for me.
Lisa Kalfus (08:20):
Yeah, really interesting.
So such beautiful awarenessthat you had.
You were noticing what wasfeeling really good to you And
through that then you got evenmore curious around it, so that
then you can start to apply itin other facets of your life.
And I think what is interestingis that there's such power in
questions.
There's so much research anddata behind this.
(08:42):
Like Harvard Business Reviewhad published a study around the
unique power of questions andunlocking progress within
organizations, work Times has anincredible study around asking
people a series of questions asstrangers and how, in that
cadence, you then can deepenintimacy.
So there's a ton of data behindit, and most people don't do
(09:06):
this well or consistently well,even if they think that they do.
We honestly don't know how topose questions in an optimal way
, and so that's why sometimesrelationships will stay at a
certain level.
They might feel fine, butthey're not as enriching as what
can be beyond the surface.
(09:27):
And when you really can get toa next level, when you're
building more of a poor, andthen certainly when you're then
deepening intimacy with friendsand with partners, and so with
our emotions, and when we'resharing what's present with us,
we really can never run out ofthings to say, and of course you
have to have a certain level ofvulnerability at different
(09:49):
times.
You have to then cadence thatdifferently, and so that's what
I really learned over the yearsof studying the art of question
design, and I became a totalstudent of that, and I learned
all about appreciative inquiry.
My certification is based offof choreographing conversations
that also drive human exchange.
Jessica (10:09):
So there's so much I like the language, The language
that you use.
It's like oh, it treats me.
I don't even know what you justsaid, but I'm like yes,
whatever that is, I want whatyou're drinking.
Well, I just wanted just tofollow up on what you just said.
Do you think that people don'task questions because they're
not curious or they don't knowhow, and is that something that?
Lisa Kalfus (10:33):
can be learned?
Great question.
So it's a little of both,because it first starts with a
mindset of being curious, and Ithink that you can shift that.
I know you can shift it.
I've seen it now with thousandsof people that I've been able
to support, and it's reallyshifting it away from yourself
(10:54):
to the other person andrealizing that every single
person is interesting and has aninteresting story to share And
that in that moment that is themost important thing for you to
do and to really just become acuriosity detective.
That's what I call it.
And so I think it really doesstart there, because once you
(11:15):
start to reframe how you'reshowing up in a conversation,
then you can be more present andinterested And through that you
become more interesting.
I think that's the first thing.
The second is around how youactually do guide the dialogue,
and you can absolutely learnthat.
Those are skills you candefinitely learn.
(11:36):
I've learned them myself overthe years, whether it was
through all of the differentcourses and coaches and mentors
that I worked with, and thenalso just testing and
experimenting myself out intothe world, and so that's why I
have unlocked a methodology thatnow I teach others, and I've
seen time and again how quicklyit shifts people.
(11:57):
For example, one woman that wasworking with in group program
recently, she realized that shereally had never learned how to
frame questions in these waysAnd so now she went to an
networking event.
She said that within the firstfive minutes that she had the
most powerful conversation withsomeone by asking the questions
(12:18):
that she had learned.
And then she said at the end ofthe event that person came up
to her and said, wow, that wasthe most memorable interaction
that I had at this event.
Can we exchange information?
And since then it went on toforming a relationship and then
really supporting each other inbusiness.
So it can definitely be taught.
Melissa (12:35):
Yeah, people have this idea that intimacy takes so much
time.
There's lots of depth tointimacy, but it can happen in
five minutes, it can happen at anetworking event, just by being
thoughtful and not saying, hey,what do you do?
And I think the question askingconversation is so fascinating
because I've taught a lot aboutsales in my life because of my
whole career has been in sales,and when we would teach about
(12:58):
sales fundamentals in ourtraining programs, it was mostly
about asking questions.
People were like, well, howmuch are you talking and how
much are you asking?
People like to talk aboutthemselves more And so if you're
uncomfortable in conversation,well, a lot of people like to
talk about themselves.
Jessica (13:15):
That's true.
Melissa (13:16):
If you're uncomfortable .
If you're uncomfortable doingit, then you getting somebody
else to talk about themselves isactually a way to make a
conversation.
Maybe more comfortable forpeople.
Sure, But we're so accustomedto talking at people and not
getting under the surface.
I'm curious if you'd share acouple basic questions that if
somebody walks into a room andyou don't know people, what do
(13:39):
you do?
Lisa Kalfus (13:40):
If I'm walking into a room, this is what I guide
people in and I don't reallyknow people.
I would just start with whatbrought you here, and when you
ask that question, you willlearn something as to what
motivated them to show up atthat event or how they might
know someone that invited them.
And then from there you canfollow the breadcrumb and just
(14:03):
say, ooh, like what wassomething that was interesting
for you within that, and thensay, ooh, tell me more about
that.
And then it will start toactually go into really useful
dialogue.
The second thing that alwayshappens when you go into a new
event if it is somethingprofessional or even a dinner
party, this happens.
People always ask what do youdo?
And I never ask that questionbecause I believe that we are so
(14:27):
much more than what we do Andreally the juice is in why you
do what you do and whetherthat's professionally or
personally.
So I always instead might askooh, what inspires you to do
what you do?
And that would naturally happenafter first you're just
learning what brought them thereor what inspired them to be
(14:48):
there?
Jessica (14:49):
What do you do when you're in a conversation with a
terrible conversationalist?
So if you're asking thosequestions and they don't know
how to talk and they don't knowhow to reciprocate, i think you
back away slowly And then youlike crawl under a table and
then just disappear.
But I guess what I'm asking, isthere a way to bring the magic
(15:11):
in to help ignite someone'sinner conversationalist, or are
there just people sometimes whoare like just this isn't going
to happen?
Lisa Kalfus (15:20):
Ooh see, i love how you framed that and that was
beautiful language.
And, yes, you have to bepatient.
You have to recognize firstthat everyone is interesting I'm
going to go back to that Andthat sometimes people are just a
little bit more uncomfortable.
So you can help put any singleperson at ease and not have them
(15:45):
feel so intimidated.
And so it might be likenoticing their body language You
can see that they're strugglingin really sharing.
So then you might share firstand then be like, oh well, what
inspired me to come to thisevent is I really just love the
host, and this is how I metMelissa for the first time And
(16:05):
this is what really excited me.
And then we shared thesecommonalities And that's what
really brought me here today,because I just wanted to be able
to meet other people that shereally cares about.
And so you might start theconversation and then they start
to feel like, oh, okay, andthen they'll drop in a little
bit more.
Once you notice that, then youcan give a little space for them
to share, and if you feel thatthen it's harder for them to
(16:28):
answer a question, then justdial it back a little bit.
Give a little bit more kind ofbreadcrumbs for them to just
feel a little bit more.
Read the room.
Yeah, read the room.
Melissa (16:37):
Read the room.
Yeah, i'm curious what the roleof assumptions plays in this,
and I can expand on that ifyou'd like, but I have a feeling
you already know.
Lisa Kalfus (16:48):
I think so often we are assuming so many things you
know about someone and makingreally quick judgments, and so I
would say that the role of thatis to release that.
and what I have found is thatin my own experience, i used to
(17:10):
definitely have a lot ofjudgments.
I used to think, oh, I'm notgoing to connect with this
person for some reason, or thisperson isn't like me, or this
person might even not resonatewith me, and I start to judge
myself and so I'm going to feellike I'm going to be rejected,
and so all of those things comeup right.
And so what is so important isto release all of that and not
(17:33):
have any expectations and reallyjust say I'm going to enjoy in
some way this moment and thisinteraction and I can give
someone like that gift of beingable to really be seen.
And so, through all of that,when you do that and you
actually just get curious aboutthe person, it's amazing how
interesting the conversation isSo I found this where, recently,
(17:59):
i've been traveling all overthe country and I've been
meeting all these differentpeople from all these different
walks of life, and my past selfwould probably not have paused
and engaged in the same way, andas I have I've noticed, gosh,
you learn so much and everysingle interaction is so
interesting to me, and so Irecently actually just got a
(18:20):
text from an old friend thatsaid I really appreciate how you
show up and been such a greatsupport for me, and I feel like
you've always been a good person, but now I feel like you're
even a greater person, because Ifeel like you don't have any
judgment on anything, and so Ithink that when you do that,
everyone just feels seen, heardand valued, and that's really,
(18:41):
at the core level, what peopledesire and need in life.
Melissa (18:44):
You have to start noticing that you're doing it
first.
Right, because we all do it.
And so even just bringingawareness of oh gosh, i'm
avoiding this person.
Or, as I'm talking to thisperson, i'm noticing that I've
decided who they already are Andeven starting to notice that
you're doing it.
I did it recently that I went toa networking thing and I exist
a lot in safe spaces with womenand intimate circles with women.
So when I go to the real worldand I'm amongst a lot of men in
(19:08):
more traditional settings ofnetworking, i judge myself.
I'm like are they going toaccept me?
Am I too deep?
Am I going to ask weirdquestions?
Are they going to find out whatI do?
And then they're going to belike what do you mean?
And so when you said that, itreally resonated and I met this
man and he was a mortgage broker, it was at a chamber event and
he asked me a nice question.
I shared something and I hadall these assumptions about who
(19:31):
he was.
And he's like oh my gosh, mywife and I travel the world and
we do yoga retreats And hestarted telling me and he's like
my wife is the speaker and shewas a nurse and like this is her
story.
And he told me all this stuffand I was like, wow, i was wrong
.
I was really wrong about you,and I think that just noticing
when those things happen, takingthat opportunity to learn a
(19:53):
little more because I think it'sa big part of what gets in the
way of asking because you'relike oh, i already know who you
are- I think our judgments canoften be an excuse to not
participate in life becausethey're in the way of us being
open to receiving everythingthat the world genuinely has to
offer.
Jessica (20:12):
It closes us into this narrow, rigid perspective.
But I am curious.
You may not be able to answerthis, but why do you think
people are curious?
Do you think curiosity isinnate?
You said that it can be learned, or do you think that's part of
our conditioning?
Lisa Kalfus (20:30):
Yeah, it is a little bit of both.
Like many things, we are aproduct of a lot of our
conditioning culturally, and soI definitely notice, and as I'm
working with people, i'm alwaysasking about their backgrounds
and what their family historiesare, because it is such a huge
factor to how they show up today.
So, for example, let's say,when you were younger and you
(20:53):
were asking questions, as youare a curious being and oh, why
are we going here, or what arewe doing next?
And you're just getting shutdown Like we'll be there soon
And time after again, thosethings happen.
or you're in a classroom andyou're asking a question and
someone says it's a stupidquestion, whatever it might be,
that it quickly shifts you outof curiosity, and so some people
(21:15):
actually do need to relearn whyit's valuable to be curious.
And then also within oursociety as a whole, a lot of
what we reward people for isactually just showcasing
yourself and your credibility,and so there's this power level
(21:37):
within our society that then islike a talking at that then gets
recognized and rewarded, and soyou know.
So, within, all of that that'swhat people believe like.
Oh, in order for me to be seenand valued in this conversation,
i need to showcase who I am.
Jessica (21:56):
I have to prove it, i have to prove myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa Kalfus (22:02):
So I think that those are two really big
societal factors that show up.
But then when you actuallystart to shift, because everyone
has had those interactionswhere someone was really curious
with them And they know howthat feels.
So that's why, going throughdifferent experiences, if you're
really trying to make a mindset, shift around it, because you
(22:22):
know the power of how it feelswhen someone's been really
curious with you.
Jessica (22:26):
That's the part I don't understand, yeah.
And you don't understand how itdoesn't immediately translate
into them starting to be morecurious To have that experience
and go oh, that felt so good.
How it doesn't immediately makethem go.
I should bring this to moreconversations.
That's not what happens.
They go oh, that felt so good,i love you, you're amazing.
And then they continue to talkat people.
Lisa Kalfus (22:50):
Well, not everyone has the self-awareness as you to
actually pause and notice, like, oh, why did that interaction
feel so good, like you did withyour friend Graham?
Maybe we should.
But when you actually pause,yeah, ask yourself when are
those interactions that havefelt really good to you And what
were some of the qualitiesbehind that?
(23:11):
The simplest thing is, when youfirst meet someone or even
someone that you work with, likewhat are the times that it's
been really connected, or whatattracted you first to someone
That really typically sparks it,what creates a meaningful
connection for you when you arefirst meeting someone, and then
(23:34):
typically, people will be ableto access.
I really liked how they werejust asking me interesting
questions, or I liked the energythat they brought or the smile
that they had And they justseemed really interested in my
story, or I learned somethingfrom their story and it made me
feel really immediatelyconnected and resonated.
So that's how you can start tonotice it.
Melissa (23:52):
I think you're so right when you talk about culture
conditioning, and I have yet tomeet a child that doesn't ask
you why, a million times, to thepoint where you're like, oh my
God, stop it, give me why.
Like I just was likeenvisioning Jack in his why
phase.
There's like years of our lifewhere all we ask is why, like,
why, why, why?
And so I'm curious about yourjourney being little Lisa, and
(24:15):
how is this nurtured in you?
or, if not, what if you had toovercome in order for this to be
such a natural part of yourbeing In terms?
Lisa Kalfus (24:24):
of my story and journey overall.
I definitely understood theimportance of community at a
young age, so that was ingrainedin me early on.
I always remember a time when Iwas probably about eight or so
and my mom's birthday was comingup and my dad and I helped
(24:47):
create a surprise party And, aswe're talking about in the
beginning, i love surprises.
And in that moment.
Yeah, there were no camels atthis party.
However, they didn't just happento show up as one does I know
Next time, mom, if you'relistening, do you want some
camels for your next milestonebirthday?
(25:07):
But I could notice like all thelove that was around with all
of her friends, and so itdefinitely sparked for me.
Oh okay, this is so importantin who we surround ourselves
with.
I definitely went on a very bigjourney around expanding friend
groups, trying to connect withdifferent people.
It took me a while, i would say, to realize who I wanted to
(25:31):
spend more time with and who wasreally aligned to my values.
I didn't necessarily know thatright away, but I could tell
what was comfortable and whatwas uncomfortable.
So I went through my own shiftsof discomfort in friend groups
and in certain social situations, just feeling that awkwardness
(25:51):
sometimes or really needing tolike read up on things before
entering a gathering.
So I felt like I had somethingto talk about.
Or then I'd be in othergatherings where I just get
bored because it would stay at acertain level and not feel as
interesting.
So once I started to learn alittle bit more about
communication and the skillsaround it, i went into marketing
(26:14):
and over my marketingleadership career, there was a
time that I really was veryuncomfortable sharing anything
personal, and so I was hiding alot of parts of myself.
I was not as transparent, andso one day I just was vulnerable
and I shared an event that Iwas going to openly with my team
(26:34):
and I noticed the impact thatit had Like.
From that day, they started toopen up more about things.
We could collaborate better,had better engagement, like it
really shifted so much, and so Ireally started to see the power
of open communication andvulnerability.
I had a couple of differentchallenges in my life after the
(26:57):
loss of my father and alsogetting unmarried, and I took
those challenges as learningopportunities and I really also
next leveled my own personalgrowth within it and studied
even more consciouscommunication And as I got more
and more passionate about thespace of connection and how to
really unlock it, i then exitedmy own corporate career.
(27:19):
When I spatticaled and traveledall around the country And I was
really really noticing what washappening around me, i saw all
this disconnection.
I started to ask people likewhat were my superpowers?
And what I was hearing time andtime again was just how you
could show up, have someone feelseen, heard and valued, asked
really really good questions andjust was able to hold a space,
(27:42):
to feel safe.
I was like climbing a mountain.
It was like a very David Brooksmoment if you've ever read the
book Second Mountain And I gotto the top of the mountain.
I was taking in all theseinputs of what my greatest gifts
were, what the world needed andwhat lights me up the most, and
got to my own icky guy Of like,ooh, like.
This is how I'm going to be inservice to others and now move
(28:03):
to my second mountain and reallyhelp others make those shifts
in their lives.
Jessica (28:06):
One thing that you said that I just want to highlight
is you spoke about being at yourwork and having a moment of
vulnerability and seeing howmuch that affected people.
We talk about inner rebel,right.
So we're forging a new path andwe're doing things on our own
terms, which means that we mighthave to be the first.
We might have to be the firstone to stand up.
That it gives other peoplepermission, Like your
(28:30):
vulnerability gives other peoplepermission to be vulnerable and
to feel safe in theirvulnerability too.
So it is such a gift to bebrave you know, and it allows
other people to access their ownbravery.
I'm curious because you work inconversation and connection.
I really think there's a lot ofpower in conversation or
(28:53):
talking to people.
I'm not talking about the powerto connect with people, but I
think there's actually somethingdeeper in that.
So many of the conversationsI've had in my life have been
the spark or the catalyst formajor growth.
So I'm curious if you can justspeak to in your own experience,
because I have a feeling youmoving into this kind of line of
(29:15):
work is also because youresonate or recognize that power
as well, What you'veexperienced or what you were
witnessing or noticing in yourlife that you wanted to then
gift it to other people the waythat you do.
Lisa Kalfus (29:29):
Stories are just what connect us.
It's at the core of whatcreates emotional connection,
and you know the quote by MayaAngelou people don't remember
what you say, they don'tremember what you did.
They remember how you make themfeel, and I think it's through
the experience that we have withpeople and we hear different
stories that are just beyondinspiring.
(29:51):
I just am like a student ofstory and I just love, love,
love hearing people's storiesAnd then also listening to other
people's stories, like RebeccaCampbell and Light is the New
Black.
That book was a really powerfulstory for me, which was so
parallel to mine, and so I thinkI first became a student of
(30:12):
story.
You know, i learned actuallyfrom great storytellers like
Matthew Lunn, who was a leadstoryteller of Pixar, and even a
dear friend of mine, mariaSipka, who is a co-founder of
Influencer Marketing CompanyLinkya, and she's a great
storyteller, And so it was likehearing how you actually can
tell story in a powerful way.
(30:33):
It was really interesting to me,and so there's something about
being able to then actually hearsomeone's personal story that
can unlock this change, and so Ithink what I started to realize
for myself was I just saw allthese different threads within
(30:55):
my own life of how I was able tomake those shifts, to then be
comfortable and confident in anysituation And I hadn't felt
that in the past And hearing allthese other people's stories of
people that were not feelingthose things, and seeing the
data then too, there's a studyby SIGNA that said three out of
(31:18):
five Americans feel lonely Andit's because they're not feeling
seen and understood and havingthose interactions consistently.
That's what really honestly,just like completely inspired me
to then create this method thatthen was teachable and
trainable, to help other peopleunlock it so that then they can
(31:38):
really feel it themselves.
Jessica (31:40):
I am struck also that vulnerability and authenticity
are synonymous with one another.
I think they go together.
So the more vulnerable you'vebecome in your relationships and
in your connections, the moreauthentic you've become, and it
would then make sense to me thatit would bring you to your
(32:01):
purpose in a really organic way.
Lisa Kalfus (32:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful observation.
I think the key for me is likejust showing up in who I am and
not being overly concerned thatit's going to resonate with
everyone, and I think that'swhat holds us back so much is
that we think we need to reallyconnect at the same level with
(32:24):
everyone, or that we're meant tobe friends with everyone and
we're not, and that's okay.
There's so many different formsof people within this world.
You can have an interesting andmeaningful interaction with
everyone.
Yes, it doesn't mean thatyou're meant to be at the same
level of relationship witheveryone, but what's important
is that through that, you showup really fully who you are, and
(32:45):
in that, i've heard a lot ofcomments of wow, i've never seen
anyone do what you do.
Like, how did you come up withthat?
It's just an extension of who Iam.
Jessica (32:56):
Did that feel easy or natural at the time that you
started this business, or wasthere any discomfort in putting
this out into the world?
Lisa Kalfus (33:04):
Yeah, i think that there was so much excitement And
also there's always this levelof uncertainty within it,
especially when you're sharingso much of yourself right,
because there's this extra levelof vulnerability within your
work.
And I think the hardest partfor me was there's a complete
intersection now with who I am,my work, my life, so it's all
(33:29):
one.
So what I really had to learnwas how do I navigate that, how
do I show up in dialogue aroundthat?
Because I'm living my life andmy work all together, so there's
no separation of that.
And so oftentimes you'd be inconversations with people where
you're like I'm not going totalk about work And it's like a
(33:51):
totally separate thing, like forme, but it's all one.
So I think that that was thehard part for me And then,
beyond that, for me, gettingpast the fear is all about one
step.
When I had fear of shifting theway that I was living and
working, i took the first stepin how I was going to travel
around the country.
(34:12):
I had bought a camper van.
That was the first step.
So in terms of the business, itwas much more of like just do
the thing, like create theexperience, and so I didn't care
at all about what it meant froma revenue standpoint the first
year.
It was just create theexperience, does it have impact?
And from there, once Iimmediately saw that it did, i
(34:35):
was like oh okay, well, let'skeep going from here.
Melissa (34:39):
So how many nuggets in there.
What you're talking about asfar as being yourself everywhere
, to me the word is wholeness.
We're taught to segmentourselves And I think it has a
major impact on us because we'relike, well, this part of me is
okay here, but I can't show this, but then this is okay, and
then this is bad here, and thenso it creates this relationship
(34:59):
with parts of yourself of goodand bad.
Okay, not okay.
I should be probably shamefulabout this in this environment.
All of me is not welcome here,and the longer we live in a
world or in circumstances whereall of me is not welcome here
personally and I've seen this inso many of my clients and so
many human beings that we startto think that there's something
(35:22):
wrong with who I actually am AndI have to hide her.
I think it's one of the biggestthings that I see.
It's my theme in my life oflike coming out of hiding.
It's one of my sole missionsAnd it's one of the things that
I gift to other people is thepermission to come out of hiding
.
But I think it's a massive,massive issue, and so I'm
(35:43):
curious what else you'vediscovered around that, because
you said you've been kind of inthe inquiry of that with other
people and how to navigate it,but I think it's really
important to talk about that.
Lisa Kalfus (35:52):
Yeah, it's so important And I know how gifted
you are within that And Iappreciate that wholeheartedly.
It's such a gift.
Maybe I'll share more withincompany experiences and
environments because I've seenthat to shift that within how I
showed up as a leader to allowfor my team to bring their full
(36:15):
self to work, I noticed thatwhen they weren't, this tension
and animosity comes in and thenthey're not as creative and they
weren't as open in theirdialogue and collaboration And
their ideas weren't coming.
Because if you're just so likedirective at things, then
they're not going to really feelcomfortable in sharing all
themselves.
So I saw the shift that thencreated so much more
(36:38):
collaboration and opencommunication and engagement by
them just fully being themselves, And so that's what then
inspired me to then create thatfor companies and teams.
And so I've seen that time andagain now and people will say I
really don't feel comfortablebeing vulnerable And what's
underlying that is they have thefear of showing who they are
(36:59):
and any weaknesses, And so inthe experiences I have then seen
the shift of wow, like I sharedsomething that was challenged
in a sales conversation with aclient.
For example, this is what agentleman had said in an
experience And he was reallyconcerned to share that with a
team and he shared a little bitmore of why was underlying it
(37:21):
for him And what he was met withwas actually pure support and
curiosity and they were rallyingbehind him.
And then they're like, what canwe do?
support?
And by the end of thatexperience he was like, oh my
gosh, like why have I not sharedmore?
Thank you, Like this was such agift.
And then people are likeshowing up so much more of
(37:43):
themselves and together able toactually be more open in their
dialogue, shift the narrativeand then actually dream bigger
together and move the strategyof the business forward.
So that's just an examplewithin a company experience, but
it comes from a place of justactually everyone needing to be
comfortable with people sharingparts of themselves and not
(38:06):
having judgment and realizingthat when they give other people
permission to do that, thenthey can do it themselves And
then everyone actually wins.
Jessica (38:11):
Yeah, Establishing safety on everybody.
For you, would you be willingto share a little bit about the
process you went through to showup more as yourself, or what
you might even still do now on adaily basis to give yourself
(38:31):
that safety and that permissionto be your whole self?
Yeah.
Lisa Kalfus (38:37):
So there were a lot of experiences, small and big,
for years, right, so hard toencapsulate it all, but I will
say that one of the experiencesthat was really transformational
for me that comes directly tomind was when I walked the
Camino de Santiago.
It's a pilgrimage and I walkedit from France and Spain and the
(39:02):
reason why it was sotransformational for me was it
really helped me slow down, helpme slow down from all of the go
, go, go and the racing and thedoing and like we gotta move
forward to just the being andreally pausing and noticing like
what was beautiful, what wasbringing me, what did I needed
to release, to let go of, andwhat really mattered to me.
And in that experience I thencould really pull out like what
(39:26):
I really valued, what energizedme, and then bring that into my
day to day.
And so every single day now Ihave rituals that kind of bring
me back to some of thoseexperiences that I learned and
honed and realized over timeafter testing all these
different things and all theselittle micro experiments of
(39:48):
what's going to energize me themost, what makes my ideal day.
And so I do those things everysingle day and it's without fail
in some way.
You know, i have my morning cupand ritual and I'm savoring it
for myself, i'm deeplyconnecting it to myself, i'm
reflecting, i'm settingintentions And then sharing that
with my mom, and I alwaysconnect with her every single
morning in some way.
We share our gratitudes andintentions for the day, and then
(40:12):
I also am being in service toothers, always just making
impact in some way, deeplyconnecting with someone and then
having some element ofadventure and play, and I also
always end the day with an awakin sunset and that's my time to
reflect and replenish.
So for me, it's this balance ofbeing, in a way of being, and
(40:36):
that is going to always comeback to myself, so that I have
the energy to show up for othersAnd then also being able to be
doing the things that I feellike are the most meaningful and
surrounding myself.
So those are some of the things.
Melissa (40:52):
I think really impact me.
It's like a true embodiment ofyour values in the way and what
you cultivate your life.
Jessica (41:00):
Melissa, we'll laugh at me for saying what I'm about to
say because of my weekend, butwe push ourselves so hard in the
culture that we live in andit's always output And if we're
not actually nourishing on asoul level, we have so much less
to give.
We have to fill our tank.
You talk about play quite a bitand then you speak to when you
(41:21):
say play, what play looks likeand feels like for you and how
you access that day to day Andwhy it's so important for our
lives, especially as grownups,which I don't like to be Sure,
yeah, play is so important.
Lisa Kalfus (41:36):
It's so important.
It's so important.
As much as I love deepconversations And I believe that
that is what unlocks so muchenrichment and fulfillment in
our lives and our work, it'salso just as important to laugh
and play, and that also justenergizes you, so it's a very,
(41:59):
very important part of how weconnect.
I always invite play into myday, and so it could be a sense
of adventure or an experience oran activity that I love to do,
or just unleashing spontaneously.
So every day I'll take a dancebreak.
You know, just play a songthree minutes and just like,
unleash and dance and play withour myself or with someone, or
(42:21):
play to me can be just walkingdown the beach And then all of a
sudden you're just jumping intothe ocean.
Or it could be an adventure anda bigger sense of play, and
instead of just driving the roadthat you know is traveled, all
of a sudden you're like you'reveering off.
You're like, ooh, let's godiscover this.
And so there's all thesedifferent ways that we can play,
or through music, i started tolearn how to play drums in my
(42:44):
film, that that was reallyplayful, and so there's all
these different things that Ilove, and especially being in
nature and hiking, i find thatthere's this element of serenity
and also play within that.
So, yeah, those are some of thethings that I love.
And I'm curious what about you?
How do you invite play intoyour play?
Jessica (43:00):
I'm also an actor, so I think that a big reason I still
do that is because it's soplayful for me And it really
connects me to my little girl.
I love playing with food, ilove food adventures, but I also
do dance parties, i make artand climb mountains.
(43:21):
I do feel that I played a lotmore in my 20s than I do in my
30s, and so it is something thatI'm consciously trying to make
more of a practice of, becausethere is a very silly person in
me who just went through herdark night of the soul and so
rediscovering that sense of playand giving myself permission
(43:42):
again, after going through somuch trauma, to bring her out
into the world again.
It's a slow process, but I seeit happening slowly, yeah thank
you for sharing.
Lisa Kalfus (43:55):
I can feel that of sometimes just being in the ebbs
and the flows of it and justsitting in some of the hard, and
that now it's starting to stepinto some more of the light and
the play that allows you tounleash a little bit more of
that inner child.
Jessica (44:11):
And learning to not take being a grown-up so
seriously, i think, when you gotto pay your bills and pay your
taxes and there's a lot ofthings that take up space where
it used to be played for me, andlearning how to do the things
you got to do, to function as anadult in this world and also
let yourself be alive and free.
(44:33):
And I think what I just want toreflect back to you is you call
yourself a connection alchemistAnd I see that in just talking
to you in this hour that it goesso beyond having conversations
with people.
This is about connecting tolife itself.
I find you so present with us,and your engagement with life
and the world around you, howyou just participate in the life
(44:54):
experience, to me is aboutconnection And I think it's
really beautiful And I'm reallygrateful for you to come and
share that gift with us.
I feel very moved to go dosomething playful today and have
some conversations.
Lisa Kalfus (45:11):
Well, thank you.
That was a beautiful reflection, and I hope that you do, and
I'd love to hear what it is thatthen enriched your day once.
What about you, melissa?
Melissa (45:21):
What do I do for play?
I mean, having a child in myhouse is like the best reminder
ever, especially at his age, andI feel like he reminds me to
stop, because so often you canjust say this other thing is
more important right now thanthat thing, that play, that
spontaneous, meaningless taskthat you're asking me to do.
(45:43):
Come build a fort with me orcome Look at this thing, or you
know so he is magic for me in myplay and we are weird and we
dance and we like do all kindsof like Bizarre.
I mean we have a friggin blasttogether.
Detectives, my inner child,right, and so anyway, that we
can have something that remindsus of our inner child and
letting her out Is beautiful,and so he brings me back to that
(46:06):
regularly and then I justspontaneity is something that
fuels me at like a cellularlevel.
If I'm like I don't know, ihave like a couple hours or a
day and I am just gonna go andsee what feels good, like that
to me is the most nourishingthing I can do for myself and I
don't do it Nearly enoughbecause of adulting, and I have
(46:28):
to remind myself regularly, liketake a day off or block a night
on the calendar and just say,hey, john, i'm taking a night to
just go do whatever the fuck Iwant, because I need just like a
clearing.
I need a clearing to explore.
So That is.
Those are some of the ways.
Jessica (46:42):
I love what you said about Jack.
what I left out is that beingwith kids is probably where I
feel most myself And I don'thave children of my own, but
that is definitely where I thinkall the silly has permission to
come out and I just want tofind a way to access that with
other grownups in my day to day.
But children are such a gift.
(47:03):
They really are.
Melissa (47:05):
They remind us that they totally do because they
don't.
They don't have especially likea three, four year old because
they don't know how to hide yet.
They don't know, yeah, theydon't know shame yet.
And it's kind of a sweet spotof They'll just be and do
whatever and they don't knowabout judgment and they don't
(47:25):
know about putting themselves ina box.
Yet and it is refreshingbecause you're like, oh, i can
actually cultivate that in myadult self.
Now it's still possible.
Lisa Kalfus (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, i'll send you, jessica,some reminders.
Like I'm also a proud aunt andI do dance parties with my
nieces and nephew, so I'll sendyou little videos and then, like
, you'll just send me thereminder and you'll spark it,
please please, please, thank you.
Melissa (47:50):
Well, thank you for being here, thank you for always
being somebody to nourish you.
Nourish every experience.
Jessica (47:57):
The rest was the word I wanted to say to that Oh,
totally your word, lisa, you'resuch a nourisher.
Lisa Kalfus (48:04):
Well, it was such a pleasure to connect with both
of you and enjoy and enriching,nourishing, meaningful
conversation.
So thank you so much for thatgift and to everyone who was
here with us Listening.
I really do hope that you havea deeply connected conversation
with someone today.
Thank you, lisa.
Melissa (48:25):
Perfect ending.
I love it, thank you.
Jessica (48:36):
Hey there, rebels.
if you enjoy this podcast, wewould love your support in a few
quick ways.
You could like, follow orsubscribe on your preferred
platform to help others discoverus too.
You could also leave us areview.
We also have a Facebook groupand you can find us at
facebookcom slash groups, slashin a rebel podcast, and you can
find us on Instagram at in arebel podcast.
(48:57):
Your support means everythingto us and we can't wait to
continue this journey together.
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
Welcome to the Inner RebelPodcast.
I am here with my co-host,jessica, hello hello.
And a dear Lisa Kalfus, isjoining us today.
(01:02):
Hi, Lisa.
The lady with the coolest jobtitle ever.
I am so excited.
I know Jessica is so excitedand she's meeting Lisa for the
first time and you and I met ata party with a live camel.
What Before COVID right?
Lisa Kalfus (01:25):
Totally.
I love surprises.
It was a friend's birthday andI showed up in surprise because
they always find that it's sogreat for connection.
And that is where I got to meetMelissa and see.
You just never know whereconnection is going to lead you.
Jessica (01:38):
it was a camel party, or just a camel happened to be
at the party.
Melissa (01:42):
That just happened.
There just happened to be acamel, because sometimes a camel
just wanders up into a party.
The gentleman whose birthday itwas he full on celebrates life
and he had a circus themed partyand so there was.
I mean, a camel was like one ofmany things that were like
camel level at this party forreal.
(02:03):
It was so amazing.
But she and I met and wecouldn't stop talking to each
other all night and we'vedeveloped such a special
friendship over the last fewyears And so I'm really excited
to have you on, because who youhave become since we met is a
pretty profound shift.
I mean, you've always been her,but you've taken on some big
(02:24):
leaps in your life and builtyour business and a lot has
happened.
So I'm excited to get to shareyou with our community.
Jessica (02:31):
I would also hope that you can't stop talking all night
to a conversation coach.
We ran out of topics.
Can you imagine It was like,wow, that was so awkward, what
are you?
Lisa Kalfus (02:43):
Yep.
I believe you can never run outof topics to talk about.
It's just you have to learn howto do that.
Melissa (02:48):
Yes, Well, i can't wait for you to teach people.
So Lisa is a connectionalchemist who's a master at
helping people have moreconnected conversations and
relationships.
She does this by askinginsightful questions and guiding
conversations that sparkpeople's curiosity in each other
.
Lisa deeply believes thequality of our relationships
determine the quality of ourlives and our success in
(03:10):
business, and the quality of ourconversations are the gateway
to strong relationships, and Iwill absolutely say you embody
that in every single interactionthat I've ever had with you.
So you really are the real deal.
Jessica (03:25):
In case anyone had any doubts, Can I please ask from
the get go what a connectionalchemist does, and can I be one
?
?
Melissa (03:36):
Yes, or maybe the person is one and maybe am I
already one.
Jessica (03:42):
I resonate so much I think you are actually I
resonate so much with it And Iwas like why didn't I think of
this?
Just tell us about that.
Lisa Kalfus (03:50):
Yeah, i consider it one that is just really trying
to spark human connection, andso I believe that my mission is
to really empower people toconnect better, with more
confidence, cultivate thoseauthentic relationships, real
deep connection, and also deeplyconnected workplace cultures
and communities, and so I thinkthat everyone can be an
(04:13):
alchemist.
You just really have to learnways to spark that and do it
with intention and really putother people first and really
care about the interaction somuch So I can immediately tell
Jessica, you love connecting,you love being able to do that
with one person that you're with, even in our short interaction,
(04:34):
before we even hit record, andthen also with others in life,
and so it's really about caringabout people and sparking those
connections in a meaningful way.
Jessica (04:43):
I care so much about it .
I think it is so foundationalto who I am.
I don't know how to do smalltalk And I think I learned it in
high school.
I think high school was when Idiscovered the art of asking
questions and it just opened upa whole world to me.
But I think I took it too far.
For a while.
I was just asking reallypersonal questions from the get
(05:04):
go and making peopleuncomfortable, and also it went
so far that I stopped sharingentirely, because if you ask
people enough questions, a lotof people don't have that
experience.
Very often I actually payattention when I'm at a
restaurant, at the tables aroundme and I'm like why do people
talk about?
because no one's asking eachother questions.
How do they actually haveconversations?
(05:26):
Are they just talking at eachother?
What do normal people do?
I don't know, because my rolehas always been the question
asker and often it means I'mleft out And also it meant that
I even found it uncomfortabletalking about myself unless I
was prompted by a question,because I felt like you can't be
(05:46):
interested if you're notexpressing curiosity.
So a lot of conversations endedup being really one sided and I
had to pull back a little bitand not make people
uncomfortable, because noteveryone is ready to go there.
So I don't even know if there'sa question in there.
Melissa (06:00):
With all that being said, You are a connection
alchemist that you answered yourown original question.
Jessica (06:06):
I would love to just open up this conversation off
the top about why isconversation so hard and is my
experience normal?
What normal people talk about,how do they do it And how do you
get in there and alchemize it?
Tell me what that process is.
Yeah, tell me more.
Lisa Kalfus (06:24):
Well, there's so much that you said in there and
that was really, really powerful, and so I want to unpack it a
little bit.
There were a handful of thingsyou said around what really
sparks you in conversation, whatwas interesting to you, and
then also recognizing thatdifferent people are in
different places, so yousometimes have to meet people
(06:45):
where they are and not scarethem off, and that also there's
this feeling of what iscomfortable, and how do I also
share my own story within that,so that it's a two-way dialogue,
and that is so important.
All those things, honestly, wedon't learn these skills in
school.
It sounded like you had thisexperience where you started to
(07:06):
learn how to ask betterquestions, and I'm curious if
you learned that in school oryou were a curious person of
life and you started to payattention and notice that.
Jessica (07:16):
I don't remember exactly how it started, but my
memory was I had a friend, andshe's still one of my best
friends today.
We got very close in highschool but we went to different
schools.
But I do remember every time wegot together We would have the
best conversations.
We could just talk for hourstogether and created such a deep
, intimate connection And I'veshared this with Melissa that we
(07:38):
even had a journal that wepassed back and forth And I
don't know, maybe it wasdissecting why our conversations
were so good, but it just feltso reciprocal.
We were just constantly probingeach other And I think we both
noted together that the worlddidn't do that, though the
people around us weren'tactually being very curious, and
so I kind of took it on as anidentity.
I was definitely going aroundand really pushing in high
(08:01):
school the boundaries of what Icould ask and how much I could
probe into people.
I think I did that throughuniversity as well, so I
apologize to people who knew methen at parties.
I don't know if I was funexactly, but I think that's
where it started.
I remember it being a verydistinct revelation for me.
Lisa Kalfus (08:20):
Yeah, really interesting.
So such beautiful awarenessthat you had.
You were noticing what wasfeeling really good to you And
through that then you got evenmore curious around it, so that
then you can start to apply itin other facets of your life.
And I think what is interestingis that there's such power in
questions.
There's so much research anddata behind this.
(08:42):
Like Harvard Business Reviewhad published a study around the
unique power of questions andunlocking progress within
organizations, work Times has anincredible study around asking
people a series of questions asstrangers and how, in that
cadence, you then can deepenintimacy.
So there's a ton of data behindit, and most people don't do
(09:06):
this well or consistently well,even if they think that they do.
We honestly don't know how topose questions in an optimal way
, and so that's why sometimesrelationships will stay at a
certain level.
They might feel fine, butthey're not as enriching as what
can be beyond the surface.
(09:27):
And when you really can get toa next level, when you're
building more of a poor, andthen certainly when you're then
deepening intimacy with friendsand with partners, and so with
our emotions, and when we'resharing what's present with us,
we really can never run out ofthings to say, and of course you
have to have a certain level ofvulnerability at different
(09:49):
times.
You have to then cadence thatdifferently, and so that's what
I really learned over the yearsof studying the art of question
design, and I became a totalstudent of that, and I learned
all about appreciative inquiry.
My certification is based offof choreographing conversations
that also drive human exchange.
Jessica (10:09):
So there's so much I like the language, The language
that you use.
It's like oh, it treats me.
I don't even know what you justsaid, but I'm like yes,
whatever that is, I want whatyou're drinking.
Well, I just wanted just tofollow up on what you just said.
Do you think that people don'task questions because they're
not curious or they don't knowhow, and is that something that?
Lisa Kalfus (10:33):
can be learned?
Great question.
So it's a little of both,because it first starts with a
mindset of being curious, and Ithink that you can shift that.
I know you can shift it.
I've seen it now with thousandsof people that I've been able
to support, and it's reallyshifting it away from yourself
(10:54):
to the other person andrealizing that every single
person is interesting and has aninteresting story to share And
that in that moment that is themost important thing for you to
do and to really just become acuriosity detective.
That's what I call it.
And so I think it really doesstart there, because once you
(11:15):
start to reframe how you'reshowing up in a conversation,
then you can be more present andinterested And through that you
become more interesting.
I think that's the first thing.
The second is around how youactually do guide the dialogue,
and you can absolutely learnthat.
Those are skills you candefinitely learn.
(11:36):
I've learned them myself overthe years, whether it was
through all of the differentcourses and coaches and mentors
that I worked with, and thenalso just testing and
experimenting myself out intothe world, and so that's why I
have unlocked a methodology thatnow I teach others, and I've
seen time and again how quicklyit shifts people.
(11:57):
For example, one woman that wasworking with in group program
recently, she realized that shereally had never learned how to
frame questions in these waysAnd so now she went to an
networking event.
She said that within the firstfive minutes that she had the
most powerful conversation withsomeone by asking the questions
(12:18):
that she had learned.
And then she said at the end ofthe event that person came up
to her and said, wow, that wasthe most memorable interaction
that I had at this event.
Can we exchange information?
And since then it went on toforming a relationship and then
really supporting each other inbusiness.
So it can definitely be taught.
Melissa (12:35):
Yeah, people have this idea that intimacy takes so much
time.
There's lots of depth tointimacy, but it can happen in
five minutes, it can happen at anetworking event, just by being
thoughtful and not saying, hey,what do you do?
And I think the question askingconversation is so fascinating
because I've taught a lot aboutsales in my life because of my
whole career has been in sales,and when we would teach about
(12:58):
sales fundamentals in ourtraining programs, it was mostly
about asking questions.
People were like, well, howmuch are you talking and how
much are you asking?
People like to talk aboutthemselves more And so if you're
uncomfortable in conversation,well, a lot of people like to
talk about themselves.
Jessica (13:15):
That's true.
Melissa (13:16):
If you're uncomfortable .
If you're uncomfortable doingit, then you getting somebody
else to talk about themselves isactually a way to make a
conversation.
Maybe more comfortable forpeople.
Sure, But we're so accustomedto talking at people and not
getting under the surface.
I'm curious if you'd share acouple basic questions that if
somebody walks into a room andyou don't know people, what do
(13:39):
you do?
Lisa Kalfus (13:40):
If I'm walking into a room, this is what I guide
people in and I don't reallyknow people.
I would just start with whatbrought you here, and when you
ask that question, you willlearn something as to what
motivated them to show up atthat event or how they might
know someone that invited them.
And then from there you canfollow the breadcrumb and just
(14:03):
say, ooh, like what wassomething that was interesting
for you within that, and thensay, ooh, tell me more about
that.
And then it will start toactually go into really useful
dialogue.
The second thing that alwayshappens when you go into a new
event if it is somethingprofessional or even a dinner
party, this happens.
People always ask what do youdo?
And I never ask that questionbecause I believe that we are so
(14:27):
much more than what we do Andreally the juice is in why you
do what you do and whetherthat's professionally or
personally.
So I always instead might askooh, what inspires you to do
what you do?
And that would naturally happenafter first you're just
learning what brought them thereor what inspired them to be
(14:48):
there?
Jessica (14:49):
What do you do when you're in a conversation with a
terrible conversationalist?
So if you're asking thosequestions and they don't know
how to talk and they don't knowhow to reciprocate, i think you
back away slowly And then youlike crawl under a table and
then just disappear.
But I guess what I'm asking, isthere a way to bring the magic
(15:11):
in to help ignite someone'sinner conversationalist, or are
there just people sometimes whoare like just this isn't going
to happen?
Lisa Kalfus (15:20):
Ooh see, i love how you framed that and that was
beautiful language.
And, yes, you have to bepatient.
You have to recognize firstthat everyone is interesting I'm
going to go back to that Andthat sometimes people are just a
little bit more uncomfortable.
So you can help put any singleperson at ease and not have them
(15:45):
feel so intimidated.
And so it might be likenoticing their body language You
can see that they're strugglingin really sharing.
So then you might share firstand then be like, oh well, what
inspired me to come to thisevent is I really just love the
host, and this is how I metMelissa for the first time And
(16:05):
this is what really excited me.
And then we shared thesecommonalities And that's what
really brought me here today,because I just wanted to be able
to meet other people that shereally cares about.
And so you might start theconversation and then they start
to feel like, oh, okay, andthen they'll drop in a little
bit more.
Once you notice that, then youcan give a little space for them
to share, and if you feel thatthen it's harder for them to
(16:28):
answer a question, then justdial it back a little bit.
Give a little bit more kind ofbreadcrumbs for them to just
feel a little bit more.
Read the room.
Yeah, read the room.
Melissa (16:37):
Read the room.
Yeah, i'm curious what the roleof assumptions plays in this,
and I can expand on that ifyou'd like, but I have a feeling
you already know.
Lisa Kalfus (16:48):
I think so often we are assuming so many things you
know about someone and makingreally quick judgments, and so I
would say that the role of thatis to release that.
and what I have found is thatin my own experience, i used to
(17:10):
definitely have a lot ofjudgments.
I used to think, oh, I'm notgoing to connect with this
person for some reason, or thisperson isn't like me, or this
person might even not resonatewith me, and I start to judge
myself and so I'm going to feellike I'm going to be rejected,
and so all of those things comeup right.
And so what is so important isto release all of that and not
(17:33):
have any expectations and reallyjust say I'm going to enjoy in
some way this moment and thisinteraction and I can give
someone like that gift of beingable to really be seen.
And so, through all of that,when you do that and you
actually just get curious aboutthe person, it's amazing how
interesting the conversation isSo I found this where, recently,
(17:59):
i've been traveling all overthe country and I've been
meeting all these differentpeople from all these different
walks of life, and my past selfwould probably not have paused
and engaged in the same way, andas I have I've noticed, gosh,
you learn so much and everysingle interaction is so
interesting to me, and so Irecently actually just got a
(18:20):
text from an old friend thatsaid I really appreciate how you
show up and been such a greatsupport for me, and I feel like
you've always been a good person, but now I feel like you're
even a greater person, because Ifeel like you don't have any
judgment on anything, and so Ithink that when you do that,
everyone just feels seen, heardand valued, and that's really,
(18:41):
at the core level, what peopledesire and need in life.
Melissa (18:44):
You have to start noticing that you're doing it
first.
Right, because we all do it.
And so even just bringingawareness of oh gosh, i'm
avoiding this person.
Or, as I'm talking to thisperson, i'm noticing that I've
decided who they already are Andeven starting to notice that
you're doing it.
I did it recently that I went toa networking thing and I exist
a lot in safe spaces with womenand intimate circles with women.
So when I go to the real worldand I'm amongst a lot of men in
(19:08):
more traditional settings ofnetworking, i judge myself.
I'm like are they going toaccept me?
Am I too deep?
Am I going to ask weirdquestions?
Are they going to find out whatI do?
And then they're going to belike what do you mean?
And so when you said that, itreally resonated and I met this
man and he was a mortgage broker, it was at a chamber event and
he asked me a nice question.
I shared something and I hadall these assumptions about who
(19:31):
he was.
And he's like oh my gosh, mywife and I travel the world and
we do yoga retreats And hestarted telling me and he's like
my wife is the speaker and shewas a nurse and like this is her
story.
And he told me all this stuffand I was like, wow, i was wrong
.
I was really wrong about you,and I think that just noticing
when those things happen, takingthat opportunity to learn a
(19:53):
little more because I think it'sa big part of what gets in the
way of asking because you'relike oh, i already know who you
are- I think our judgments canoften be an excuse to not
participate in life becausethey're in the way of us being
open to receiving everythingthat the world genuinely has to
offer.
Jessica (20:12):
It closes us into this narrow, rigid perspective.
But I am curious.
You may not be able to answerthis, but why do you think
people are curious?
Do you think curiosity isinnate?
You said that it can be learned, or do you think that's part of
our conditioning?
Lisa Kalfus (20:30):
Yeah, it is a little bit of both.
Like many things, we are aproduct of a lot of our
conditioning culturally, and soI definitely notice, and as I'm
working with people, i'm alwaysasking about their backgrounds
and what their family historiesare, because it is such a huge
factor to how they show up today.
So, for example, let's say,when you were younger and you
(20:53):
were asking questions, as youare a curious being and oh, why
are we going here, or what arewe doing next?
And you're just getting shutdown Like we'll be there soon
And time after again, thosethings happen.
or you're in a classroom andyou're asking a question and
someone says it's a stupidquestion, whatever it might be,
that it quickly shifts you outof curiosity, and so some people
(21:15):
actually do need to relearn whyit's valuable to be curious.
And then also within oursociety as a whole, a lot of
what we reward people for isactually just showcasing
yourself and your credibility,and so there's this power level
(21:37):
within our society that then islike a talking at that then gets
recognized and rewarded, and soyou know.
So, within, all of that that'swhat people believe like.
Oh, in order for me to be seenand valued in this conversation,
i need to showcase who I am.
Jessica (21:56):
I have to prove it, i have to prove myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Lisa Kalfus (22:02):
So I think that those are two really big
societal factors that show up.
But then when you actuallystart to shift, because everyone
has had those interactionswhere someone was really curious
with them And they know howthat feels.
So that's why, going throughdifferent experiences, if you're
really trying to make a mindset, shift around it, because you
(22:22):
know the power of how it feelswhen someone's been really
curious with you.
Jessica (22:26):
That's the part I don't understand, yeah.
And you don't understand how itdoesn't immediately translate
into them starting to be morecurious To have that experience
and go oh, that felt so good.
How it doesn't immediately makethem go.
I should bring this to moreconversations.
That's not what happens.
They go oh, that felt so good,i love you, you're amazing.
And then they continue to talkat people.
Lisa Kalfus (22:50):
Well, not everyone has the self-awareness as you to
actually pause and notice, like, oh, why did that interaction
feel so good, like you did withyour friend Graham?
Maybe we should.
But when you actually pause,yeah, ask yourself when are
those interactions that havefelt really good to you And what
were some of the qualitiesbehind that?
(23:11):
The simplest thing is, when youfirst meet someone or even
someone that you work with, likewhat are the times that it's
been really connected, or whatattracted you first to someone
That really typically sparks it,what creates a meaningful
connection for you when you arefirst meeting someone, and then
(23:34):
typically, people will be ableto access.
I really liked how they werejust asking me interesting
questions, or I liked the energythat they brought or the smile
that they had And they justseemed really interested in my
story, or I learned somethingfrom their story and it made me
feel really immediatelyconnected and resonated.
So that's how you can start tonotice it.
Melissa (23:52):
I think you're so right when you talk about culture
conditioning, and I have yet tomeet a child that doesn't ask
you why, a million times, to thepoint where you're like, oh my
God, stop it, give me why.
Like I just was likeenvisioning Jack in his why
phase.
There's like years of our lifewhere all we ask is why, like,
why, why, why?
And so I'm curious about yourjourney being little Lisa, and
(24:15):
how is this nurtured in you?
or, if not, what if you had toovercome in order for this to be
such a natural part of yourbeing In terms?
Lisa Kalfus (24:24):
of my story and journey overall.
I definitely understood theimportance of community at a
young age, so that was ingrainedin me early on.
I always remember a time when Iwas probably about eight or so
and my mom's birthday was comingup and my dad and I helped
(24:47):
create a surprise party And, aswe're talking about in the
beginning, i love surprises.
And in that moment.
Yeah, there were no camels atthis party.
However, they didn't just happento show up as one does I know
Next time, mom, if you'relistening, do you want some
camels for your next milestonebirthday?
(25:07):
But I could notice like all thelove that was around with all
of her friends, and so itdefinitely sparked for me.
Oh okay, this is so importantin who we surround ourselves
with.
I definitely went on a very bigjourney around expanding friend
groups, trying to connect withdifferent people.
It took me a while, i would say, to realize who I wanted to
(25:31):
spend more time with and who wasreally aligned to my values.
I didn't necessarily know thatright away, but I could tell
what was comfortable and whatwas uncomfortable.
So I went through my own shiftsof discomfort in friend groups
and in certain social situations, just feeling that awkwardness
(25:51):
sometimes or really needing tolike read up on things before
entering a gathering.
So I felt like I had somethingto talk about.
Or then I'd be in othergatherings where I just get
bored because it would stay at acertain level and not feel as
interesting.
So once I started to learn alittle bit more about
communication and the skillsaround it, i went into marketing
(26:14):
and over my marketingleadership career, there was a
time that I really was veryuncomfortable sharing anything
personal, and so I was hiding alot of parts of myself.
I was not as transparent, andso one day I just was vulnerable
and I shared an event that Iwas going to openly with my team
(26:34):
and I noticed the impact thatit had Like.
From that day, they started toopen up more about things.
We could collaborate better,had better engagement, like it
really shifted so much, and so Ireally started to see the power
of open communication andvulnerability.
I had a couple of differentchallenges in my life after the
(26:57):
loss of my father and alsogetting unmarried, and I took
those challenges as learningopportunities and I really also
next leveled my own personalgrowth within it and studied
even more consciouscommunication And as I got more
and more passionate about thespace of connection and how to
really unlock it, i then exitedmy own corporate career.
(27:19):
When I spatticaled and traveledall around the country And I was
really really noticing what washappening around me, i saw all
this disconnection.
I started to ask people likewhat were my superpowers?
And what I was hearing time andtime again was just how you
could show up, have someone feelseen, heard and valued, asked
really really good questions andjust was able to hold a space,
(27:42):
to feel safe.
I was like climbing a mountain.
It was like a very David Brooksmoment if you've ever read the
book Second Mountain And I gotto the top of the mountain.
I was taking in all theseinputs of what my greatest gifts
were, what the world needed andwhat lights me up the most, and
got to my own icky guy Of like,ooh, like.
This is how I'm going to be inservice to others and now move
(28:03):
to my second mountain and reallyhelp others make those shifts
in their lives.
Jessica (28:06):
One thing that you said that I just want to highlight
is you spoke about being at yourwork and having a moment of
vulnerability and seeing howmuch that affected people.
We talk about inner rebel,right.
So we're forging a new path andwe're doing things on our own
terms, which means that we mighthave to be the first.
We might have to be the firstone to stand up.
That it gives other peoplepermission, Like your
(28:30):
vulnerability gives other peoplepermission to be vulnerable and
to feel safe in theirvulnerability too.
So it is such a gift to bebrave you know, and it allows
other people to access their ownbravery.
I'm curious because you work inconversation and connection.
I really think there's a lot ofpower in conversation or
(28:53):
talking to people.
I'm not talking about the powerto connect with people, but I
think there's actually somethingdeeper in that.
So many of the conversationsI've had in my life have been
the spark or the catalyst formajor growth.
So I'm curious if you can justspeak to in your own experience,
because I have a feeling youmoving into this kind of line of
(29:15):
work is also because youresonate or recognize that power
as well, What you'veexperienced or what you were
witnessing or noticing in yourlife that you wanted to then
gift it to other people the waythat you do.
Lisa Kalfus (29:29):
Stories are just what connect us.
It's at the core of whatcreates emotional connection,
and you know the quote by MayaAngelou people don't remember
what you say, they don'tremember what you did.
They remember how you make themfeel, and I think it's through
the experience that we have withpeople and we hear different
stories that are just beyondinspiring.
(29:51):
I just am like a student ofstory and I just love, love,
love hearing people's storiesAnd then also listening to other
people's stories, like RebeccaCampbell and Light is the New
Black.
That book was a really powerfulstory for me, which was so
parallel to mine, and so I thinkI first became a student of
(30:12):
story.
You know, i learned actuallyfrom great storytellers like
Matthew Lunn, who was a leadstoryteller of Pixar, and even a
dear friend of mine, mariaSipka, who is a co-founder of
Influencer Marketing CompanyLinkya, and she's a great
storyteller, And so it was likehearing how you actually can
tell story in a powerful way.
(30:33):
It was really interesting to me,and so there's something about
being able to then actually hearsomeone's personal story that
can unlock this change, and so Ithink what I started to realize
for myself was I just saw allthese different threads within
(30:55):
my own life of how I was able tomake those shifts, to then be
comfortable and confident in anysituation And I hadn't felt
that in the past And hearing allthese other people's stories of
people that were not feelingthose things, and seeing the
data then too, there's a studyby SIGNA that said three out of
(31:18):
five Americans feel lonely Andit's because they're not feeling
seen and understood and havingthose interactions consistently.
That's what really honestly,just like completely inspired me
to then create this method thatthen was teachable and
trainable, to help other peopleunlock it so that then they can
(31:38):
really feel it themselves.
Jessica (31:40):
I am struck also that vulnerability and authenticity
are synonymous with one another.
I think they go together.
So the more vulnerable you'vebecome in your relationships and
in your connections, the moreauthentic you've become, and it
would then make sense to me thatit would bring you to your
(32:01):
purpose in a really organic way.
Lisa Kalfus (32:04):
Yeah, yeah, that's a beautiful observation.
I think the key for me is likejust showing up in who I am and
not being overly concerned thatit's going to resonate with
everyone, and I think that'swhat holds us back so much is
that we think we need to reallyconnect at the same level with
(32:24):
everyone, or that we're meant tobe friends with everyone and
we're not, and that's okay.
There's so many different formsof people within this world.
You can have an interesting andmeaningful interaction with
everyone.
Yes, it doesn't mean thatyou're meant to be at the same
level of relationship witheveryone, but what's important
is that through that, you showup really fully who you are, and
(32:45):
in that, i've heard a lot ofcomments of wow, i've never seen
anyone do what you do.
Like, how did you come up withthat?
It's just an extension of who Iam.
Jessica (32:56):
Did that feel easy or natural at the time that you
started this business, or wasthere any discomfort in putting
this out into the world?
Lisa Kalfus (33:04):
Yeah, i think that there was so much excitement And
also there's always this levelof uncertainty within it,
especially when you're sharingso much of yourself right,
because there's this extra levelof vulnerability within your
work.
And I think the hardest partfor me was there's a complete
intersection now with who I am,my work, my life, so it's all
(33:29):
one.
So what I really had to learnwas how do I navigate that, how
do I show up in dialogue aroundthat?
Because I'm living my life andmy work all together, so there's
no separation of that.
And so oftentimes you'd be inconversations with people where
you're like I'm not going totalk about work And it's like a
(33:51):
totally separate thing, like forme, but it's all one.
So I think that that was thehard part for me And then,
beyond that, for me, gettingpast the fear is all about one
step.
When I had fear of shifting theway that I was living and
working, i took the first stepin how I was going to travel
around the country.
(34:12):
I had bought a camper van.
That was the first step.
So in terms of the business, itwas much more of like just do
the thing, like create theexperience, and so I didn't care
at all about what it meant froma revenue standpoint the first
year.
It was just create theexperience, does it have impact?
And from there, once Iimmediately saw that it did, i
(34:35):
was like oh okay, well, let'skeep going from here.
Melissa (34:39):
So how many nuggets in there.
What you're talking about asfar as being yourself everywhere
, to me the word is wholeness.
We're taught to segmentourselves And I think it has a
major impact on us because we'relike, well, this part of me is
okay here, but I can't show this, but then this is okay, and
then this is bad here, and thenso it creates this relationship
(34:59):
with parts of yourself of goodand bad.
Okay, not okay.
I should be probably shamefulabout this in this environment.
All of me is not welcome here,and the longer we live in a
world or in circumstances whereall of me is not welcome here
personally and I've seen this inso many of my clients and so
many human beings that we startto think that there's something
(35:22):
wrong with who I actually am AndI have to hide her.
I think it's one of the biggestthings that I see.
It's my theme in my life oflike coming out of hiding.
It's one of my sole missionsAnd it's one of the things that
I gift to other people is thepermission to come out of hiding
.
But I think it's a massive,massive issue, and so I'm
(35:43):
curious what else you'vediscovered around that, because
you said you've been kind of inthe inquiry of that with other
people and how to navigate it,but I think it's really
important to talk about that.
Lisa Kalfus (35:52):
Yeah, it's so important And I know how gifted
you are within that And Iappreciate that wholeheartedly.
It's such a gift.
Maybe I'll share more withincompany experiences and
environments because I've seenthat to shift that within how I
showed up as a leader to allowfor my team to bring their full
(36:15):
self to work, I noticed thatwhen they weren't, this tension
and animosity comes in and thenthey're not as creative and they
weren't as open in theirdialogue and collaboration And
their ideas weren't coming.
Because if you're just so likedirective at things, then
they're not going to really feelcomfortable in sharing all
themselves.
So I saw the shift that thencreated so much more
(36:38):
collaboration and opencommunication and engagement by
them just fully being themselves, And so that's what then
inspired me to then create thatfor companies and teams.
And so I've seen that time andagain now and people will say I
really don't feel comfortablebeing vulnerable And what's
underlying that is they have thefear of showing who they are
(36:59):
and any weaknesses, And so inthe experiences I have then seen
the shift of wow, like I sharedsomething that was challenged
in a sales conversation with aclient.
For example, this is what agentleman had said in an
experience And he was reallyconcerned to share that with a
team and he shared a little bitmore of why was underlying it
(37:21):
for him And what he was met withwas actually pure support and
curiosity and they were rallyingbehind him.
And then they're like, what canwe do?
support?
And by the end of thatexperience he was like, oh my
gosh, like why have I not sharedmore?
Thank you, Like this was such agift.
And then people are likeshowing up so much more of
(37:43):
themselves and together able toactually be more open in their
dialogue, shift the narrativeand then actually dream bigger
together and move the strategyof the business forward.
So that's just an examplewithin a company experience, but
it comes from a place of justactually everyone needing to be
comfortable with people sharingparts of themselves and not
(38:06):
having judgment and realizingthat when they give other people
permission to do that, thenthey can do it themselves And
then everyone actually wins.
Jessica (38:11):
Yeah, Establishing safety on everybody.
For you, would you be willingto share a little bit about the
process you went through to showup more as yourself, or what
you might even still do now on adaily basis to give yourself
(38:31):
that safety and that permissionto be your whole self?
Yeah.
Lisa Kalfus (38:37):
So there were a lot of experiences, small and big,
for years, right, so hard toencapsulate it all, but I will
say that one of the experiencesthat was really transformational
for me that comes directly tomind was when I walked the
Camino de Santiago.
It's a pilgrimage and I walkedit from France and Spain and the
(39:02):
reason why it was sotransformational for me was it
really helped me slow down, helpme slow down from all of the go
, go, go and the racing and thedoing and like we gotta move
forward to just the being andreally pausing and noticing like
what was beautiful, what wasbringing me, what did I needed
to release, to let go of, andwhat really mattered to me.
And in that experience I thencould really pull out like what
(39:26):
I really valued, what energizedme, and then bring that into my
day to day.
And so every single day now Ihave rituals that kind of bring
me back to some of thoseexperiences that I learned and
honed and realized over timeafter testing all these
different things and all theselittle micro experiments of
(39:48):
what's going to energize me themost, what makes my ideal day.
And so I do those things everysingle day and it's without fail
in some way.
You know, i have my morning cupand ritual and I'm savoring it
for myself, i'm deeplyconnecting it to myself, i'm
reflecting, i'm settingintentions And then sharing that
with my mom, and I alwaysconnect with her every single
morning in some way.
We share our gratitudes andintentions for the day, and then
(40:12):
I also am being in service toothers, always just making
impact in some way, deeplyconnecting with someone and then
having some element ofadventure and play, and I also
always end the day with an awakin sunset and that's my time to
reflect and replenish.
So for me, it's this balance ofbeing, in a way of being, and
(40:36):
that is going to always comeback to myself, so that I have
the energy to show up for othersAnd then also being able to be
doing the things that I feellike are the most meaningful and
surrounding myself.
So those are some of the things.
Melissa (40:52):
I think really impact me.
It's like a true embodiment ofyour values in the way and what
you cultivate your life.
Jessica (41:00):
Melissa, we'll laugh at me for saying what I'm about to
say because of my weekend, butwe push ourselves so hard in the
culture that we live in andit's always output And if we're
not actually nourishing on asoul level, we have so much less
to give.
We have to fill our tank.
You talk about play quite a bitand then you speak to when you
(41:21):
say play, what play looks likeand feels like for you and how
you access that day to day Andwhy it's so important for our
lives, especially as grownups,which I don't like to be Sure,
yeah, play is so important.
Lisa Kalfus (41:36):
It's so important.
It's so important.
As much as I love deepconversations And I believe that
that is what unlocks so muchenrichment and fulfillment in
our lives and our work, it'salso just as important to laugh
and play, and that also justenergizes you, so it's a very,
(41:59):
very important part of how weconnect.
I always invite play into myday, and so it could be a sense
of adventure or an experience oran activity that I love to do,
or just unleashing spontaneously.
So every day I'll take a dancebreak.
You know, just play a songthree minutes and just like,
unleash and dance and play withour myself or with someone, or
(42:21):
play to me can be just walkingdown the beach And then all of a
sudden you're just jumping intothe ocean.
Or it could be an adventure anda bigger sense of play, and
instead of just driving the roadthat you know is traveled, all
of a sudden you're like you'reveering off.
You're like, ooh, let's godiscover this.
And so there's all thesedifferent ways that we can play,
or through music, i started tolearn how to play drums in my
(42:44):
film, that that was reallyplayful, and so there's all
these different things that Ilove, and especially being in
nature and hiking, i find thatthere's this element of serenity
and also play within that.
So, yeah, those are some of thethings that I love.
And I'm curious what about you?
How do you invite play intoyour play?
Jessica (43:00):
I'm also an actor, so I think that a big reason I still
do that is because it's soplayful for me And it really
connects me to my little girl.
I love playing with food, ilove food adventures, but I also
do dance parties, i make artand climb mountains.
(43:21):
I do feel that I played a lotmore in my 20s than I do in my
30s, and so it is something thatI'm consciously trying to make
more of a practice of, becausethere is a very silly person in
me who just went through herdark night of the soul and so
rediscovering that sense of playand giving myself permission
(43:42):
again, after going through somuch trauma, to bring her out
into the world again.
It's a slow process, but I seeit happening slowly, yeah thank
you for sharing.
Lisa Kalfus (43:55):
I can feel that of sometimes just being in the ebbs
and the flows of it and justsitting in some of the hard, and
that now it's starting to stepinto some more of the light and
the play that allows you tounleash a little bit more of
that inner child.
Jessica (44:11):
And learning to not take being a grown-up so
seriously, i think, when you gotto pay your bills and pay your
taxes and there's a lot ofthings that take up space where
it used to be played for me, andlearning how to do the things
you got to do, to function as anadult in this world and also
let yourself be alive and free.
(44:33):
And I think what I just want toreflect back to you is you call
yourself a connection alchemistAnd I see that in just talking
to you in this hour that it goesso beyond having conversations
with people.
This is about connecting tolife itself.
I find you so present with us,and your engagement with life
and the world around you, howyou just participate in the life
(44:54):
experience, to me is aboutconnection And I think it's
really beautiful And I'm reallygrateful for you to come and
share that gift with us.
I feel very moved to go dosomething playful today and have
some conversations.
Lisa Kalfus (45:11):
Well, thank you.
That was a beautiful reflection, and I hope that you do, and
I'd love to hear what it is thatthen enriched your day once.
What about you, melissa?
Melissa (45:21):
What do I do for play?
I mean, having a child in myhouse is like the best reminder
ever, especially at his age, andI feel like he reminds me to
stop, because so often you canjust say this other thing is
more important right now thanthat thing, that play, that
spontaneous, meaningless taskthat you're asking me to do.
(45:43):
Come build a fort with me orcome Look at this thing, or you
know so he is magic for me in myplay and we are weird and we
dance and we like do all kindsof like Bizarre.
I mean we have a friggin blasttogether.
Detectives, my inner child,right, and so anyway, that we
can have something that remindsus of our inner child and
letting her out Is beautiful,and so he brings me back to that
(46:06):
regularly and then I justspontaneity is something that
fuels me at like a cellularlevel.
If I'm like I don't know, ihave like a couple hours or a
day and I am just gonna go andsee what feels good, like that
to me is the most nourishingthing I can do for myself and I
don't do it Nearly enoughbecause of adulting, and I have
(46:28):
to remind myself regularly, liketake a day off or block a night
on the calendar and just say,hey, john, i'm taking a night to
just go do whatever the fuck Iwant, because I need just like a
clearing.
I need a clearing to explore.
So That is.
Those are some of the ways.
Jessica (46:42):
I love what you said about Jack.
what I left out is that beingwith kids is probably where I
feel most myself And I don'thave children of my own, but
that is definitely where I thinkall the silly has permission to
come out and I just want tofind a way to access that with
other grownups in my day to day.
But children are such a gift.
(47:03):
They really are.
Melissa (47:05):
They remind us that they totally do because they
don't.
They don't have especially likea three, four year old because
they don't know how to hide yet.
They don't know, yeah, theydon't know shame yet.
And it's kind of a sweet spotof They'll just be and do
whatever and they don't knowabout judgment and they don't
(47:25):
know about putting themselves ina box.
Yet and it is refreshingbecause you're like, oh, i can
actually cultivate that in myadult self.
Now it's still possible.
Lisa Kalfus (47:35):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, i'll send you, jessica,some reminders.
Like I'm also a proud aunt andI do dance parties with my
nieces and nephew, so I'll sendyou little videos and then, like
, you'll just send me thereminder and you'll spark it,
please please, please, thank you.
Melissa (47:50):
Well, thank you for being here, thank you for always
being somebody to nourish you.
Nourish every experience.
Jessica (47:57):
The rest was the word I wanted to say to that Oh,
totally your word, lisa, you'resuch a nourisher.
Lisa Kalfus (48:04):
Well, it was such a pleasure to connect with both
of you and enjoy and enriching,nourishing, meaningful
conversation.
So thank you so much for thatgift and to everyone who was
here with us Listening.
I really do hope that you havea deeply connected conversation
with someone today.
Thank you, lisa.
Melissa (48:25):
Perfect ending.
I love it, thank you.
Jessica (48:36):
Hey there, rebels.
if you enjoy this podcast, wewould love your support in a few
quick ways.
You could like, follow orsubscribe on your preferred
platform to help others discoverus too.
You could also leave us areview.
We also have a Facebook groupand you can find us at
facebookcom slash groups, slashin a rebel podcast, and you can
find us on Instagram at in arebel podcast.
(48:57):
Your support means everythingto us and we can't wait to
continue this journey together.
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