August 13, 2025 • 49 mins
At 17, Ruthie Lindsey was hit by an ambulance and given a 1% chance of survival. What followed was decades of physical and emotional pain, masked by perfectionism and a desperate need to be liked. In this bold and tender episode, Ruthie shares how she slowly dismantled her pain story, abandoned the “basic bitch” mask she used to wear, and began reclaiming joy, creativity, and weirdness on her own terms. We talk about trauma, truth-telling, the deep grief that followed fame, and learning to live in your body again. This one is for anyone who has lost themselves in trying to be lovable—and is ready to come home to their weird, wonderful self.
Topics:
- Chronic pain and trauma healing
- The cost of people-pleasing and perfectionism
- Letting go of being “likable”
- Creativity as reclamation
- Choosing joy after survival
- Living without needing to perform
- Beauty, grief, and aliveness
- Rebuilding identity after collapse
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free virtual monthly community call on the 3rd Thursday of every month, join here!
CONNECT WITH INNER REBEL
Follow Inner Rebel Podcast: @innerrebelpodcast
Follow Melissa: @melissa-bauknight & @thenovaglobal
Follow Jessica: @bydesignwithjess
Visit the Inner Rebel website
Check out The Nova Community and become a part of our "Novalution" https://thenovaglobal.com/
Download our FREE Reclamation Rituals to become unmasked, unboxed, and rise together.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
UNKNOWN (00:00):
Hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage what looks like courage
to other people.
For me, it feels like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by passion,
by integrity, then I really dothink that I know who I am.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
There is a peace that is indescribable when
you're being who you are andyou're living your purpose.
I'm not going to come to the endof my life and be like, I didn't
live the life I was meant tolive.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Can I be so comfortable in the idea and so
comfortable in that uncertaintythat every version of it is
going to be okay.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Oh my goodness, I'm so excited.
Ruthie, I am so excited to meetyou.
I'm so happy to meet you.
I read your book.
You're such a beautiful writer.
And I just feel very, veryhonored.
And it's such a joy to have you.
And Melissa has said nothing butthe goodest, greatest things
about you.
So it's so nice to be in thisspace with you today.
(01:10):
Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
Well, I'm so honored to be herewith y'all.
I'm so happy to meet you,Jessica and Melissa.
You know, I adore you.
You could ask me to do anythingand I'm there.
I just believe in you so much.
And the work you're doing is soimportant.
And it matters so much.
And it's so in integrity.
So yeah, I'm so excited to be apart of anything that you're
(01:33):
doing.
I really receive that.
Thank you, Ruby.
You're welcome, sister.
It's very mutual.
That's the fun thing abouthaving dear soul friends.
You're just like, no, I loveyou.
No, I love you.
No, I love you more.
It makes me look at this juicy,genuine love fest.
Yeah.
Truly.
And it gets to be that.
(01:54):
It does.
For so long, I wasn't always inthat mode.
And now I'm like, everyone wins.
There's just more.
And the love just gets toexpand.
Yes.
I love it.
I want to say one more thing onthis, and then I'm going to dive
us into the conversation westart with usually.
But I had this moment.
I don't even remember who
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
I was talking
SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
to.
It was one of my friends.
This was in the last 24 hours,but a lot's happened in 24
hours.
And I was like in awe of who sheis.
And I'm like, she's reallyremarkable.
And there was a part of my brainthat wanted to say, like, she's
better than me.
She's this, she's more.
Yeah.
And then I caught it and I waslike, well, that's a reflection.
(02:35):
You know, we get to have ourfriends be a reflection of who
we are.
And what does that say about me
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
that this is the company I keep?
SPEAKER_03 (02:43):
Exactly.
And what is also for me?
Because it's just a reflection.
Like anytime that I've ever beenjealous about somebody, it's
this lack story that doesn't getto be for me too.
Instead of moving into, thankyou, universe, God, that they
get to have that.
And thank you so much thatthat's a reflection.
You're showing me somethingthat's going to be in my own
(03:04):
unique way for the Ruthieversion.
But that abundance is for metoo.
And wow, like what a...
I don't know.
It's a fun game to shift with.
It is a fun game to shift with.
Well, I want to introduce youofficially before we dive much
deeper, and then we'll get intoeven more of the juice.
So Ruthie Lindsay is the authorof the memoir, There I Am, The
(03:24):
Journey from Hopelessness toHealing, a Nashville-based
speaker, coach, and midwife ofsouls.
She holds space for spaceholders, as many of her clients
are therapists and coaches.
She helps people become endearedto their own life, soul, and
body.
Welcome, Ruthie.
I mean, I'm always excited totalk to you, but Jess is like, I
can't wait to talk to Ruthie.
(03:46):
She's been so excited.
I'm so excited.
I am too.
I am too.
Thank y'all so much.
I have heard you say, maybe itwas on another podcast, that you
really value being different.
And so our question to you is,what is your relationship with
your inner rebel?
(04:07):
Love that question.
I actually taught a course inretreats called The Sacred Rebel
because I love anytime that webreak out of society's boxes,
that is a holy, sacredrebellion, right?
When we become a truer versionof ourselves, when we listen to
our own body's yeses and are inintegrity with ourself, even if
(04:27):
family thinks we're crazy, evenif society and culture says
you're crazy, that is theholiest, most sacred rebellion
An integrity thing that you canoffer this planet, that you can
offer your own body, that youcan offer the world.
And it is not for the faint ofheart.
I so understand why I stayed inthe box as long as I stayed in
(04:49):
the box.
I so understand when people Ilove stay in the box.
We are hardwired for belonging.
And to break out of it, we oftenlose the belonging that kept us
safe.
And so to be a rebel...
which I consider not rebel justto rebel, like I've done in the
past too, but to do it inintegrity, to do it sacredly, is
(05:10):
to do it in a way that ishonoring who you are, honoring
my body's yes and no, speakingthe truth even when it's going
to upset people, speaking myhonest to God truth when you
know that shit's going to hitthe fan.
That is sacred.
Such brave work.
And honestly, for me, it's suchnervous system work because if I
(05:30):
am dysregulated, I don't feelsafe to do it.
So that is a kind of randomanswer, but I really believe
it's the holiest, most profoundanswer.
It's freedom.
It's really freedom.
Because when I live, I am 6'1",and when I try to fold myself
into this tiny little box forapproval and belonging, and I
(05:53):
love that version of me so much.
God bless her.
She is the most precious,earnest human.
And holy shit, I can never goback.
i will not go back it made me soill it made me so unwell
emotionally physicallyspiritually i can't go back can
(06:14):
we dive into why and i'mparaphrasing how you put it but
why you feel being an integrityand the honoring of that sacred
rebel is the greatest gift wecan bring to the world well
Anything that anyone does intheir inner world, we're all
connected.
Anytime anyone wakes up and isfree, that ripples out.
(06:36):
We can't even imagine who that'simpacting.
There's so many studies aboutvibration and regulation and
what it does in communities,what it does for families, what
it does for cultures.
I really believe for a longtime, people that were more
free, I would feel reallyactivated by because it scared
(06:57):
me.
There were people that Iunfollowed.
There were people that I wasjust like, ooh, oh God.
And what's hilarious is I'm 10times weirder than those
versions of them.
Today, I am 10 times more weirdand freaky and all the things
than those versions of them.
But they planted seeds for me.
Mm-hmm.
They planted seeds for me andeveryone will learn it in this
(07:20):
life.
And their journey is perfect.
I truly, my higher self believesthat with every part of me.
My ego self wants everyone tochange and be more like me and
like, you know, and that is notreal.
That's actually not kind orloving or anything, but that's
my shadow.
My higher, truest, moreenlightened, conscious version
(07:41):
of me knows that everyone is ontheir perfect version.
And when I Speak my truth.
When I am my truest, fullest,embodied, freest version of me,
it will activate the shit out ofpeople.
And that is actually kind andloving.
Because for some people, theywill run away and run for the
(08:02):
hills and they're perfect.
For other people, it will plantseeds for them of what is
possible.
The people that I was judging,they sure seemed a lot happier
than I was.
They sure seemed a lot freerthan I was.
And third, some people areready.
It just magnetized the peoplethat are ready to free
(08:24):
themselves from culture'sbullshit telling us we have to
look a certain way, act acertain way, talk a certain way,
date a certain way, perform acertain way, work a certain way.
Who made these rules up?
They're bullshit.
It's patriarchal.
It doesn't fit.
And when we break out of that,the world is better for it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
I think the theme of season two is dismantling the
patriarchy.
And
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
it's coming up in every single episode, which, you
know, we're right on time.
I had a beautiful side thoughtthat came up this week when you
said, I am weirder.
And whatever you said aroundbeing weird, we had this moment
the other day where we weretalking about who we want to
call into our lives.
And the woman who's leading ourBoulder chapter said she wrote
(09:06):
in this piece of paper at a workevent of I want to attract
weird, powerful women.
And she was so insecure aboutsaying the weird part.
So this conversation has come upa lot this week of being bold
enough to say out loud, I'm aweird, powerful woman.
And I'd like more weird,powerful women in my life.
I mean, what makes us weird?
It's just us being us.
(09:27):
But I just loved her experienceof finding another woman that
saw her post.
It was like, Yes.
And now they're dear friends.
And this other woman was judgingand didn't like it and was like,
why would someone put weird onthe wall?
And it's just to magnetize whatwe're looking for.
So the more we can really be outthere with who we are, the more
(09:47):
magnetic we are to what weactually want to be around.
That's right.
And what's for us.
The weirder you get and thefreer you get, things will die
away.
And it is scary.
Yeah.
People will go away.
work will go away.
But what it opens up, it'sclarifying.
It draws in what's actually truefor you.
Because if those friendshipsneeded you to fit in that tiny
(10:10):
little box, if those employeesor those employers or family
members needed you in those tinylittle boxes, maybe they're not
for you.
Maybe those aren't your people,right?
Because all I have time for now,I'm like the weirder the
freaking better.
I'm like, be so full ofyourself.
(10:30):
Like fill yourself up with somuch of who you are.
I had lunch with two of mydearest friends yesterday.
And like also the people thatI'm drawn to, we can laugh at
ourselves.
We were howling.
Like we have done all thespiritual things and all this
stuff.
If I can't zoom out and laugh atmyself at the hilarity and how
(10:51):
serious I take myself and themistakes that I made, that
levity, the people in my lifethat I am the most drawn to have
so much levity and are able tojoke and be silly and laugh.
That's what I want.
That's what I have time for.
That's what I have space for.
And I've just gotten clearer andclearer what doesn't work and
focusing more on what does.
(11:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, there was many momentswhen I knew I was going to love
you forever when we met becausewe met on a retreat a year ago,
actually last week.
Yeah.
And I don't even know what youand Laura Sprinkle and I were
talking about, but I justremember walking through the
property laughing so hard at thedumbest shit.
And I'm like, we're on the samewavelength.
We love talking about weird,stupid shit and we get each
(11:34):
other.
And we were just giggling and Iwas so pleased.
Yes.
Yes.
Levity matters.
Levity matters.
I know I'm not in a good placewhen I'm taking myself so
seriously and I haven't laughed.
I'm also so intrigued by yourchildhood and you've described
(11:54):
it and maybe there's more layersto it, but you've described it
as being very loving and youfeeling really accepted and
really seen for who you are.
And so it makes me curious whatboxes you still felt you had to
break out of.
I love that you asked thatquestion So much has changed
since I wrote that book.
I love that book.
(12:15):
And I love that version of mewho wrote that book.
And I would have told you likethat was the true version of me
at the time, right?
We protect ourselves and weprotect our families.
And writing that book, it tookme on such a journey.
I had a nervous breakdown at theend of that book.
After I turned it in, I justspent three weeks in a
(12:35):
residential treatment center.
I stopped sleeping for likeeight weeks.
And it was horrible.
I had no clue about.
Right.
Children...
(13:06):
Right.
Not until I did some...
(13:33):
inner child work I learned aboutsome pretty major pre-verbal
trauma and I want to hold twothings at once I love the
non-dual thinking of like I canhold the nuance of everyone was
doing the exact best they couldmy parents loved me so much and
would have done anything for meand they could raise me at their
(13:56):
level of consciousness there wasso much trauma that was never
looked at therapy was never athing and You know, my mom
sought help outside of herthrough religious things, which
that was her perfect journey.
My dad was in Vietnam, had somuch trauma, never looked at any
of the trauma.
And he was very informed by thepatriarchal systems.
(14:18):
My dad never touched a babyuntil we were two years old.
Never once.
He never changed a diaper.
He never fed.
So my mom, we did not havemoney.
My mom had everything on her ownplate.
And if you knew her childhood,everything would make so much
sense.
She was So traumatized on alevel that my heart breaks when
I know what she lived through.
(14:38):
Having heard my mom, of course Ichose her to be my mom because
it sent me on the deepestremothering path of my life,
which is the work I do today.
She didn't know how to do it.
And so she knew how to be thereand make sure I had food, make
sure I look perfect.
Everything was about looks.
In my house, the only reason abody was talked about is if
(14:58):
they're skinny, pretty, fat, orugly.
Every time I'd come home fromschool, Ruthie, what did they
say about you today?
Did they say how pretty youwere?
What did they say about youroutfit?
What did they say about Ilearned, which became a massive
shadow part of my life, thatwhat do the right people say
about me?
What do I need to do to get theright people to like me?
(15:19):
So, of course, I unconsciouslyused people.
I had this whole Hollywood worldwhere people were taking me all
over the world.
And, you know, on some level,the egoic level, that made the
right people think I'm specialand want to be with me.
I blew it all up and I walkedaway from all of it.
And it was a death in the mostprofound way.
(15:41):
Thank you, God, that I blew upmy worlds so intensely.
Can you dig into that?
Because I would blow up ourworlds on purpose.
Sometimes our worlds blow us up.
Sometimes it's both.
And...
I think it's an important thingto talk about because there is
death.
There is death to make room.
And it is painful.
(16:02):
We started off saying where thefriendships that are not for you
do go away.
Can you talk to why, how youblew all of that up?
And also, I want to extend myappreciation for your honesty
and candor.
I love that you are able to goback, reflect, and retract your
own writing.
(16:22):
I think that's very...
brave.
So continue.
And it was my truth when I wroteit.
I think it was my ownself-protective truth to feel
okay in the world.
A child, when a daddy leaves,doesn't say, what's wrong with
daddy?
He's traumatized.
He's having a midlife crisis.
He's having an affair.
They say, something is wrongwith me or else daddy would be
(16:43):
here.
Yes, of course.
A child has to protectthemselves.
So I was still in that Andhonestly, if you'd asked my
brothers, they tell me they hada pretty perfect childhood and
they're perfect and they're ontheir perfect journey.
And it's not my job to fix it orchange it.
If I talk about any of thisstuff, they can't hear it.
And I'm like, that's okay.
No one else has to believe whatmy experience was.
(17:03):
No one else has to believe whatmy body knows was true for me.
Have y'all ever read the book,The Way of Integrity?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That book, Martha going throughit for the third time.
So much of my life shifted.
It feels like the mostclarifying.
It's like, I can't not tell thetruth.
(17:24):
Like, I have to tell my truth,even if it offends people.
Because a lot of what I talkabout offends my hometown.
My dad was the big leader in myhometown.
And I am obsessed with my dad'spast.
I love my dad.
He was a major leader in mytown.
And there were a lot of reallypainful things.
SPEAKER_04 (17:44):
Both
SPEAKER_03 (17:45):
things get to be true.
He had a really good heart andhe was really traumatized.
Both things get to be true.
It's so nice to hold all thetruths at once.
Yeah.
Right?
Totally.
And again, Going back to what wewere saying earlier, that's
nervous system work becausedysregulated nervous system only
sees the world black and white.
Most people walking on thisplanet is living in that us
(18:07):
against them, that dualthinking.
It's bad or it's good.
There's no gray area.
There is no room for nuance.
I feel like part of my soul'swork, and I'm also a Libra, but
it's to live in that graybecause both things get to be
true.
It was fucked up and they lovedme as well as they knew how to
do it.
So going back to 2019, up tothat point, two things are true.
(18:31):
Amazing humans.
No one's bad here.
Amazing humans.
I was very embedded in theHollywood world.
I had a lot of really famouspeople that the world knows
taking me under their wing,taking me around the world,
getting me inside of fancyplaces.
traveling, jobs, all kinds ofthings, honestly.
The reason I had a book deal isI was with a very famous person
(18:54):
backstage at Glennon Doyle'sbook tour.
And they were obsessed with thisperson I was with.
And they opened up a door for meto talk about my story.
And I ended up getting Glennon'sbook agent.
It opened up a lot of doors forme.
And I think that none of thatwas by chance because I was
supposed to write that book.
I was supposed to have thatbreakdown.
I was supposed to see my shadowparts.
(19:14):
I was supposed to see how Iunconsciously use people.
All of it was a part of it.
And all of it ultimately servedmy greater good.
And it was freaking brutal on alevel I can't even describe.
Because in 2018, I had a prettymassive spiritual awakening that
changed everything.
And it was scary.
(19:34):
When it happened, I thought Ihad the spiritual awakening.
I see now.
Now life's just going to be soplayful and easy.
Isn't that cute?
Y'all.
It was one of the most painful,traumatic, debilitating, all the
masks that I learned to wear tosurvive on this planet and to
(19:56):
belong.
I was homecoming queen.
I always knew how to makefriends.
I knew what I needed to do.
I remember jumping back a littlebit in second grade.
I was probably seven, havingthis conscious thought, if you
smile really big at people andjust ask them a ton of
questions, they will love you.
(20:16):
I was seven years old.
They don't have to know anythingabout you, but all of a sudden
they will love you.
And I was not wrong.
I had such a high level ofemotional intelligence.
I couldn't read.
I was the worst student ever,but I was the queen of the
playground.
I knew how to be with people.
I knew how to make people feelspecial.
I knew what to do to get peopleto like me, right?
(20:39):
And if you make people feelspecial, they like you.
That was my motivation.
It wasn't because I wantedpeople to feel special.
I wanted them to like me so Icould come home and tell my mom
what people said about me thatday.
I needed to be needed.
And that followed me throughoutmy life.
I knew what I needed to do.
I sat at a different table everyday at lunch because then no one
(21:00):
has to get to really know me.
I never had one group offriends.
I was friends with everyone.
I was that smiley, happy girl.
When inside, I felt like I wasdying inside.
I remember the day afterHomecoming Queen, the principal
told my dad, who was thesuperintendent, that I got more
votes than anyone had evergotten because I got the black
vote and the white vote.
And it was always down themiddle, segregated.
(21:22):
And of course, it made me feelso good that night.
And I will never forget thedepression I felt the next
morning.
Oh.
Yeah.
(21:48):
Everything's great.
I had a massive eating disorder.
I was starving myself all thetime.
I hated my body.
So that's a little backstory,right?
So 2019, I finished writing thisbook.
I had had this spiritualawakening at the end of 2018,
moving into 2019.
I did not know how to handle it.
I was not grounded.
(22:10):
I worked with plant medicine,but didn't know how to
integrate.
If you have a spiritualawakening, you just need to get
locked up for a while, not be inculture.
Dear God.
I was so ungrounded and veryuntethered, seeing things,
hearing things, experiencingthings I didn't have a context
for.
I didn't have people to talk toabout it.
It was brand new.
(22:31):
I finished the book.
I changed the book drastically.
I changed the name of the book,but I still wasn't aware of any
of the pre-verbal stuff.
That summer of 2019, seven yearsto the week of my first nervous
breakdown.
I had lived in a bed for sevenyears because of a complication
of dying in a car accident and awire piercing my brainstem and
(22:52):
had a massive nervous breakdown.
When I got out of that bed sevenyears later, I'm not kidding, to
the week, I stopped sleepingagain.
My body was just not okay.
And I had done so much workaround pain with my rep.
I had done zero work aroundgestation to that wreck
happening.
(23:12):
And I lost it.
The shame spiraled.
What do they say about you?
I'm having a nervous breakdown.
I'm going to three weeks ofresidential treatment.
Oh, here's the best.
My friend owns this place calledOnsite.
We used to have a podcasttogether.
And we would put on theseincredible retreats.
All these famous people that Iwould invite would come in.
All the people doing all thisamazing work in the world, we
(23:34):
would bring them together for aweek-long intensive at Onsite,
co-hosting it with my friendMiles.
People come from all over theworld at this place.
I helped organize it.
I had invited all the people.
I'm losing my mind.
So they send me down the hill atthe same property for three-week
residential treatment.
All my friends, all the peoplethat I had invited are at the
(23:56):
top of the hill.
No, no.
I am losing my mind.
I am so ashamed.
I'm supposed to be putting out abook that says There I am, the
journey from hopelessness tohealing, and I'm losing my
fucking mind.
Can't even breathe.
So much shame.
I didn't want anyone to see me.
I'm having panic attacks allnight long.
I don't believe in a placecalled hell, but I know hell.
(24:19):
I believe hell is the illusionof separation from God, from
yourself, and from others.
I know hell so viscerally inthis life.
I know hell.
Hell, and I can dance there in amillisecond when I believe that
illusion of separation.
That season was so dark.
And I was like, I'm a fraud.
I'm not even putting the bookout.
I am a liar.
None of it's real.
(24:40):
I can't help anyone.
The stories were the meanest,most vile.
Shame and fear have probablybeen two of the loudest parts in
my life.
And they were driving my life atthat point.
I will also say it was the mostimportant part.
Thank you, universe.
Thank you, God.
(25:00):
Thank you, body, for thatexperience because things died.
And everything that died werethe conditioned parts of me, the
mask that I learned to wear, tobelong.
Now, people talk about egodeath.
My ego is still right here.
Like, she's still here.
Yeah.
Until I become, and I don'tforesee this happening in this
life, fully enlightened, I willhave a massive shadow.
(25:22):
My shadow is a part ofeverything I do.
But all of a sudden, I wasconscious of it.
I started becoming aware ofthese parts.
Started becoming aware ofpre-verbal trauma.
Started becoming aware of theseparts of me that I don't have to
over-identify with.
And I can learn to bringcompassion and care and
kindness.
Because up to this point, no oneon this planet has healed
through shame.
(25:43):
It has not worked yet.
If it worked, we would all beliving our best lives,
completely awakened andenlightened.
Like it doesn't work.
We don't heal that way.
And so learning tools to go takecare of baby Ruthie, whose mama
was really unwell when she wasborn and couldn't take care of
me.
And so I didn't have attachmentor attunement.
(26:03):
Learning how to take care ofher, walking away from
friendships that didn't serveme.
No one's wrong.
No one's bad.
It just, it didn't fit anymore.
It didn't fit anymore.
I saw my shadow.
I am hanging out in situationsthat don't feel aligned for me.
I'm a massive introvert.
I know I don't come off as late.
I am a massive, highlysensitive, empathic, porous
(26:26):
introvert.
But I was conditioned to be likean Enneagram 7, talk to anyone.
And I thought it was my painthat kept me from being able to
fully embody that.
No, I am an Enneagram 4 thatfeels everything, that is so
emotional, could like gnashtheir teeth and feel the whole
world's pain.
True story.
I was removing a spider from myhouse the other day and I
(26:48):
accidentally pulled out one ofits legs and I cried.
I cried over the fuckingspider's leg.
I am so sensitive.
All of you guys are much nicerthan me.
It's so over the top and I knowit, but also I laugh at myself.
I'm able to laugh at myself.
I wish you could see out mywindow.
I feed...
Hundreds, if not thousands ofbirds.
I feed every feral cat that everexisted.
(27:08):
I feed raccoons and possums anddogs.
I mean, like.
Oh, my gosh.
I want to do your human design.
All I know is I'm a generator.
Is that a human design?
It is, but.
That's all I know.
All right, we'll talk later.
She needs a lot more informationabout you.
Yeah, that's all I know.
I would love it, though.
So in that season, right afterCOVID hit, my little ego
(27:28):
thought, I'm writing this book.
Y'all, I have the best agent inthe world.
I got the biggest book signingever.
My book came out three weeksinto COVID.
I'm in my underwear feeling sosorry for myself, but then
feeling shame for feeling sorryfor myself because people are
dying and I'm not on thismassive book tour.
I had no idea what the book did.
I told them not to tell mebecause I didn't want to know.
(27:49):
But the book did exactly what itwas supposed to do because it
sent me on this journey.
Thank you, God, that all thesethings fell in my lap.
I did not want to write a bookat all, but I did it because I
thought it was supposed to makeme like more famous and help
more people.
And I did that book for myself.
That is the creative process.
(28:10):
It's not even about the resultat all.
The process of it broke the shitdown and it was so important.
It got so clarifying.
And then COVID hit.
I couldn't travel.
I used to travel constantly andI worked with all these brands
and they'd send me all over theworld.
Nothing was happening.
And all of a sudden I was in thewoods every day.
I started growing a garden.
(28:30):
I started cooking for the firsttime in my entire life.
My mom hated cooking.
I never learned how to cook.
I started spending so much timewith animals.
I started spending so much timewith the people that felt so
aligned with me that I feltexpansive being around and I
didn't feel like I had to be acertain way or can say a certain
thing or you can't post itbecause the world knows them and
(28:51):
they need to FaceTune themselvesbefore and you have to look a
certain, you know, it all diedaway.
And what was left was so trueand so beautiful and funny and
slow.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(29:14):
Mm-hmm.
That season was just thisclarifying cut through the
bullshit.
This does not fit anymore, eventhough the world thinks this
(29:34):
matters.
And, you know, my little egoscome in and it's like, you were
a husband.
You were so buddy then.
And my higher self's like,bitch, what a story.
You're hilarious.
I've never felt more free than Ido in this moment sitting across
from y'all right now.
UNKNOWN (29:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:51):
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
There's so much here.
We talked a lot in the firstseason about that dismantling,
that we can really build wholelives on top of our inauthentic
selves.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:04):
And I've heard you say, you kind of said it now, it
was like the best thing thatever happened to you.
Unless you've really livedthrough the rock bottom, people
don't realize that it can be thebest thing that's ever happened
to you.
Yes.
But you also had multipleexperiences.
I'm like, are we done, God?
(30:32):
Can we be done with that?
I think I'm good.
struck and then there was otherthings going on so you went
(30:53):
through this huge pain journeyyeah that you describe in the
book yeah and then there's likea whole other layer of a pain
journey that i'm like i knowshe's so wonderful why my soul
y'all i've had more come tojesus meetings with my soul be
like bitch really this is theshit you want to experience this
(31:14):
round of earth school And I'm soendeared to my soul because I'm
like, you are the bravestfucking human soul, whatever.
Like, I am in awe of my soul.
And I'm like, really?
These are the things you signedup for the experience.
Like, I'm the only human in theworld that's had a wire pierce
their brainstem, right?
(31:36):
Like, I shouldn't be alive.
I shouldn't be breathing.
I shouldn't be walking.
And for some reason, I am stillhere.
And even after all thathappened, I was still so asleep
for so long and just so frozenand so scared.
And I have so much tendernessfor all those versions of me
because what I believe now, ify'all had interviewed me five
(31:56):
years ago, all I would havetalked about was my pain story.
Yeah, this is what I want toknow is what's your perspective
now?
It's important to have context.
Like I will never say don't talkto me about my pain story
because it's so important tohave that context to understand.
But now the thing that lights meup is talking about what pain
has invited me into.
Because what we know is pain isuniversal.
(32:17):
If you come to earth school, youbrave soul, if you come here,
you're going to experience pain.
I don't care who you are.
There are different levels ofpain, but you will experience
pain.
But it's not the pain thathappens that causes the
suffering.
It's the story we tellourselves.
The pain story, yes.
That's where we suffer.
I have suffered so.
So much over my pain stories inthis life.
(32:39):
And now I'm so bored with them.
So now I get lit up.
It turns me on to talk aboutwhat pain has invited me into.
And can I tell you some of thosethings?
Yes, please.
So I believe pain has invited meinto nervous system work and
understanding that when I livewith a dysregulated nervous
system, which I believe mynervous system was probably
(33:00):
dysregulated in the womb.
My mom was losing her mind.
I don't know that I ever fullyembodied pain.
you know, until now.
And I'm still working on it.
This is ongoing work that I'lldo until the day I take my last
breath.
But I do a lot of nervous systemwork.
When I'm dysregulated, I seelife in this us against them,
this black and white, they'regood and they're bad.
And everyone that thinks they'regood thinks the other side is
(33:23):
bad.
And over here, all these peoplethat we think are bad, think
these people are bad.
Look at our political system.
It's the most dualistic usagainst them.
Everyone's in it.
I mean, not everyone, but most.
I'd say most of the world.
And it's coming from a verydysregulated.
There is no room for nuance whenyou're dysregulated.
There's no room to be open tochange and having your mind
(33:46):
changed when you'redysregulated, right?
And so when I am more regulatedand I feel safer in my body, I
will never tell someone that I'mgoing to create a safe space for
them.
I will say I will create a bravespace because only you know if
you feel safe.
It's an internal thing.
job.
I never tell my clients I'mcreating a safe space.
(34:07):
They get to choose if they feelsafe with me.
So I'm going to give you toolsto create safety within you.
Learning and studying andpracticing nervous system work
has changed my whole world.
Shadow work has changed my lifeon a level I cannot describe to
you.
There's that Carl Jung quotethat I always get a little wrong
because I can't rememberexactly, but it's something to
(34:28):
the effect of until theunconscious becomes conscious,
you're going to have the sameresults over and over and you're
going to call it fate.
I think that's the way life isbecause we're co-creating every
second of the days, but I'meither co-creating out of fear
and hate or I'm co-creating outof love and expansion.
And when you're unconscious,you're co-creating out of fear
(34:49):
and lack and hate, right?
I know what I don't want.
I know what I hate.
I know what's wrong with me.
And we're co-creating morerealities and then we call it
fate.
We think that's just the way itis.
Or I can co-create with magic,falling so in love with what's
here right now.
and being able to have a vision.
This isn't saying that I don'tget to like have magical things
(35:10):
in the future, but I want tofind magic right now.
And then I think the biggestthings I've noticed, the theme
I've had going on so much latelyis how can I bring more
pleasure, more presence, andmore play.
Presence, play, pleasure.
(35:31):
So much pleasure.
Like Your body cannot releasecortisol at the same time it's
releasing oxytocin.
But to feel more pleasure, Ihave to be in the present
moment.
I have to actually allow myselfto feel the pain.
For the longest time, myfavorite quote was Viktor
Frankl, the deeper sorrow carvesinto your being, the more joy
(35:51):
you can contain.
But what I didn't understand isI would think about how much
misery I'd been in.
So I'm like, I just one dayexperienced the best joy in the
whole world.
I've suffered more than any ofmy friends.
And now I'm just thinking aboutit.
It's like knowledge is just arumor until it moves into the
muscle.
I could think about my traumaand I would re-traumatize myself
thinking about how miserable Iwas and how awful it is and how
(36:14):
bad it is to hurt so bad everysecond of every day.
And like, I lived there for solong.
Right.
Right.
(36:41):
If that worked, no pastor wouldever have affairs.
We can't pray it away or else noone would be gay.
Like, give me a freaking break.
I was going to say, pray the gayaway.
It's crazy.
It's not how it works.
It's never worked.
We know the body keeps thescore.
It goes to the basement.
It's going to come out sideways.
People are going to haveaffairs.
Anger gets pushed down, comesout as rage.
(37:03):
Anger is holy.
But when we don't know how toactually feel it, bring
compassion to it, and treat itlike our beloved child that has
information for us, it will comeout sideways.
We are going to cuss out theperson that just cut you off in
traffic.
You are going to yell at yourchild.
You are going to scream at yourhusband.
It's going to come out.
It doesn't go away because youprayed it away and you wished it
(37:25):
away or you hated it enough.
It's never worked.
Only thing that shifts things ispresence and love.
How can I meet it?
How can I be with it?
How can I be with that withoutmaking it bad, without making it
evil, without making itsomething I have to change?
I can't change the state of theworld right now.
Is it insane?
(37:45):
Yeah, it's insane.
And I'm not going to change it.
But what I can do is be morepresent, lean into what's here,
be more loving to my neighbors,myself, animals, and my
community.
The world needs more enlivenedbeings.
It doesn't need more people withmore knowledge.
It needs more alive, awakenedpeople.
(38:08):
This is not me saying this iswhat everyone else wants to
believe.
This is just what works for me,you know?
Melissa, are you noticing atheme in season two outside of
the patriarchy and the fucked upgovernment?
I feel like the conversationkeeps expanding around being in
our bodies and building theresiliency to feel.
Yes.
And to process our feelings andto be with what is and to be
(38:31):
present.
Yeah.
But our minds do work anarrative.
It is how we perceive reality,right?
So we are in a constantnarrative.
If we are going to be innarrative anyway, we might as
well have power over thatnarrative or take ownership of
that narrative.
So maybe you can speak into,okay, when we hear the pain
(38:52):
story, how do we reframe it?
How do we...
Something my partner and I do,and I invite my clients to do
this over and over.
What we say when there's anegative story that's causing me
pain, instead of saying, I amanxious or what they're doing to
(39:13):
me is da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da,the language we use is the story
I'm making up right now.
SPEAKER_01 (39:19):
That's such a good one.
SPEAKER_03 (39:21):
Just that statement creates a one-degree shift.
It creates a little bit ofspaciousness away from this, I
know this is a fact.
Because do you know that's afact?
Do we know that our whole worldis going to end in four years?
Do we know, is that a fact thatthe world is over in four years?
(39:41):
We don't know that.
The universe is so much biggerthan any kind of brain thinking
story.
And does this story cause mepain and retraction?
Or does this feel like, Theysay, pray, move your feet.
Does this feel like something Ican move towards to bring more
love to?
More than likely, most of thestories that are running through
(40:03):
my head, and there's so muchscience backing this, are
limiting stories that do notserve our bodies that aren't
even necessarily true.
How many of those stories thatyou told actually came true?
When you create that little bitof spaciousness, one, like we
said, it gives a little bit of aone degree shift.
(40:23):
Two, when you bring it up tosomeone, you get to examine it
and you also give the otherperson an opportunity to tell
the truer story.
And Eric and I use that witheach other so much because there
are times when he brings that upthat I get to say, you're not
wrong.
I am mad at you.
I just not feel brave enough tosay it.
(40:43):
But more often than not, it'snot a true story.
And then you get to say thetruer story, the one that's
actually more loving and moretrue.
and how you actually feel anddefenses get to come down.
Oh, absolutely.
Because when you come in andsay, when you did that, you just
made me feel blah, blah, blah.
Like, how well has that evergone?
(41:05):
Doesn't go well in my life.
It's never gone well.
To that point, though, you saidsomething about how often do
those stories end up being true,but I think we are so attached
to our stories that we actuallydo things to make them true.
So true.
Right?
So if we're in the story, wethen react to the story and
create conflict where therewasn't conflict to validate it.
(41:26):
Until the unconscious becomesconscious.
Yeah.
You have the same result overand over and call it fate.
I'm so glad you brought that upagain.
Sorry to interrupt you.
It's just, It's just a reminder.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And all our brains want is to beproven right.
All our brains want are to beproven right.
If I think everyone on the otherside is this and this and this,
(41:46):
I'm going to scour informationto prove my narrative.
Algorithms help that becausewe're all in our little echo
chambers.
If me and someone that thinksvery differently than me, which
mostly is my family, Google theexact same thing, Their results
of their Google feed would becompletely different than what
(42:07):
my Google feed would show me.
But this is because we think ourminds are who we are, right?
Because we identify with thevoice in our head.
So we're threatened by it notbeing true because we've made
the voice who we are.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense.
It's that unconscious bias.
Here's one example.
For the longest time, because ofthe wounding I had in childhood
(42:29):
and not having the attachment orattunement, my story is I'm all
alone and everyone will leaveme.
SPEAKER_04 (42:34):
That
SPEAKER_03 (42:35):
has been a theme in my life.
I'm all alone and everyone willleave me.
I did not date anyone until Iwas out of college.
I would choose people that wouldultimately leave me.
And then I could say, see, I'mall alone and everyone leaves
me.
I did that over and and overunconsciously because of this
core wound.
(42:57):
My unconscious thing wasscanning people to be who's not
safe, who's avoidant, hittingall the things that I grew up
with
SPEAKER_04 (43:05):
to
SPEAKER_03 (43:05):
feed that narrative for me to be like, that's what
it is.
That's who I am.
Every man leaves me.
And I believed that until my midto late 30s, until I did it.
And then I was like, what?
Bullshit.
I'm amazing.
Now you have such a love.
I'm so curious.
(43:27):
You're so lit up about presence,pleasure, and play.
And I know this man of yours hasa big role in that.
So can you share what doespresence, pleasure, and play
look like in your
SPEAKER_01 (43:38):
life now?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:40):
Thank you for asking.
I mean, Eric, he is nothing Ithought I was looking for, but
he was everything I needed.
He makes me laugh until I amactually in pain.
We are so goofy and silly.
He's an Enneagram six.
I don't like get too built up inall this, but it's a fun tool.
So I identify as a four.
(44:01):
He identifies as a six.
He's more cerebral and a doer.
He gets more things done in oneday than I probably do in a
month.
I move very slow.
I feel everything so deeply.
He'll walk by me and he's like,are you feeling things?
And then thinking about them andthen feeling them some more.
And I'm like, Yes.
And he's like, let's go on awalk.
(44:22):
Do you want to come dance withme?
And he can get me up and bringme out when I'm taking myself so
seriously or suffering overanimal abuse or suffering over
any kind of injustice on theplanet or how people are
treating the soil.
And he can help pull me out.
And we will laugh and be sofreaking doofy.
One of the things that's beenthe most beautiful with him is
(44:46):
I've never shown someone so manyof my shadowy parts, my deepest
fears, my deepest insecurities,the parts that I would hide away
when I didn't want anyone tosee.
And not only does he not runaway, he leans in so hard and
holds me in that and loves me.
It is amazing.
A love that I didn't know I'dget to have in this life.
(45:09):
I saw glimpses of it with otherpeople.
And it's so human.
Don't hear me say that it's notmessy and all the things.
But in the mess, we just gotowards each other.
I think the thing that is themost beautiful is we laugh so
much.
We both do our own inner work.
He supports me doing my owninner work.
I'll be like, babe, I'm going togo to this retreat.
It's kind of expensive, but Ifeel so called.
(45:30):
He's like, great.
We're abundant.
Go, babe.
He does everything.
therapy every week.
He's taken an art class, runs 13miles every Sunday.
He does his own inner work and Iget to release more control to
let him be on his own journeybecause control is loud at my
table.
And when he sees it, he talks tome about it lovingly.
(45:50):
There's a tenderness, humor, anda playfulness that just, it's
such medicine for me.
There's no one I'd rather spinwith besides myself.
I love being with myself.
I'm my favorite person to bewith.
Outside of myself, he and my catare my favorite to be with.
And I feel so blessed for that.
I just want to acknowledgebecause I have to watch myself
(46:14):
in this language because I wentthrough my own version,
definitely not what you wentthrough, but my own version of
dismantling and starting mywhole life over and through it
wanting some kind of outcome toprove that the work was leading
somewhere.
And for a long time- You reallydon't know if it is.
Yeah.
And so I keep catching myselflike it's not a reward, but it
(46:37):
is a reflection of authenticity.
It is a reflection that the moreyou come home to yourself, the
more you release the layers ofinauthenticity, like attracts
like the people who resonatewith the essence of you will
find you.
And it does.
Yes.
become what you're describing.
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
You went through so much.
I'm just feeling so gratefulthat you get to live that now.
(47:02):
Thank you.
And it is not for the faint ofheart.
I understand why people stay inthe box because it feels a lot
safer.
It feels a lot safer to live inthat black and white, like tell
me what to do so that I can beokay and be safe.
I don't judge it because I getit.
I Get it, if my world hadn'tblown up in 9 million ways, I
(47:22):
probably would still, this isnot time, but I'd probably be
the most basic bitch you've evermet in your entire, this is what
we'll call the episode.
How to not be a basic bitch.
Oh, my gosh.
Like, that was me.
Like, whatever you want.
Yes, ma'am.
Yes, sir.
Yes, thank you.
And then I would just go homeand binge eat and watch 9
million episodes of a showbecause I was not okay.
(47:45):
And I don't want to come off allof a sudden after that 2018-2019
thing okay.
I was just good.
It has been a struggle.
I have struggled.
I have had to dismantle so manypain stories and I still can
dance in that so easily.
It's part of life, right?
It's a part of life.
(48:06):
Like being human is being in thepain story.
Yes.
And then you remember again.
And then I'll forget and I'll goback to my bullshit and then
I'll remember again.
And I'm like, oh, bed and work.
Here's what I actually want.
Here's how I actually want tobe.
I love what Martha Beck talksabout, the eagle and the mouse.
We can have the eagle eye view.
My physical therapist teacher is80 years old.
(48:29):
She might be five foot nothing.
She still goes to conferencesbecause she loves it.
She loves it.
And like, she's walking aroundwith a notebook of life.
Like, what can I learn?
Yesterday, she was like, youwrote a book.
Will you bring me your book?
I have to read your book.
She's 80.
So she is an eagle eye view ofhow I want to be at 80 years
old.
She is alive and healthy andjoyful.
(48:52):
All I focused on the past islike, that scares the shit out
of me.
I don't want to do that.
So I'm like, what are my babymouse steps today to be more
alive, to be more curious, tofeel more play and pleasure and
laughter and joy and bring thatlove?
What do I need to do today?
to help me become that kind ofcrone energy.
(49:14):
I love it.
It feels like such a perfectstopping point.
It's so beautiful, Ruthie.
Thank you for, I mean, I just...
I want to bottle you up and putyou in my pocket and hang out
with you all the time.
I'm coming.
Thank you for your generosityand your honesty.
It's so refreshing andbeautiful.
I'm so honored to be here withy'all.
Thank you so much for invitingme and allowing me to share a
(49:36):
bit of my story and just yourgenerous, thoughtful questions.
It's just been a real joy.
Very grateful.
Thank you.
UNKNOWN (49:46):
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Hmm.
SPEAKER_01 (00:02):
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage what looks like courage
to other people.
For me, it feels like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by passion,
by integrity, then I really dothink that I know who I am.
SPEAKER_02 (00:21):
There is a peace that is indescribable when
you're being who you are andyou're living your purpose.
I'm not going to come to the endof my life and be like, I didn't
live the life I was meant tolive.
SPEAKER_03 (00:30):
Can I be so comfortable in the idea and so
comfortable in that uncertaintythat every version of it is
going to be okay.
SPEAKER_01 (00:38):
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
SPEAKER_03 (00:49):
Oh my goodness, I'm so excited.
Ruthie, I am so excited to meetyou.
I'm so happy to meet you.
I read your book.
You're such a beautiful writer.
And I just feel very, veryhonored.
And it's such a joy to have you.
And Melissa has said nothing butthe goodest, greatest things
about you.
So it's so nice to be in thisspace with you today.
(01:10):
Thank you for being here.
Thank you.
Well, I'm so honored to be herewith y'all.
I'm so happy to meet you,Jessica and Melissa.
You know, I adore you.
You could ask me to do anythingand I'm there.
I just believe in you so much.
And the work you're doing is soimportant.
And it matters so much.
And it's so in integrity.
So yeah, I'm so excited to be apart of anything that you're
(01:33):
doing.
I really receive that.
Thank you, Ruby.
You're welcome, sister.
It's very mutual.
That's the fun thing abouthaving dear soul friends.
You're just like, no, I loveyou.
No, I love you.
No, I love you more.
It makes me look at this juicy,genuine love fest.
Yeah.
Truly.
And it gets to be that.
(01:54):
It does.
For so long, I wasn't always inthat mode.
And now I'm like, everyone wins.
There's just more.
And the love just gets toexpand.
Yes.
I love it.
I want to say one more thing onthis, and then I'm going to dive
us into the conversation westart with usually.
But I had this moment.
I don't even remember who
SPEAKER_01 (02:14):
I was talking
SPEAKER_03 (02:14):
to.
It was one of my friends.
This was in the last 24 hours,but a lot's happened in 24
hours.
And I was like in awe of who sheis.
And I'm like, she's reallyremarkable.
And there was a part of my brainthat wanted to say, like, she's
better than me.
She's this, she's more.
Yeah.
And then I caught it and I waslike, well, that's a reflection.
(02:35):
You know, we get to have ourfriends be a reflection of who
we are.
And what does that say about me
SPEAKER_01 (02:40):
that this is the company I keep?
SPEAKER_03 (02:43):
Exactly.
And what is also for me?
Because it's just a reflection.
Like anytime that I've ever beenjealous about somebody, it's
this lack story that doesn't getto be for me too.
Instead of moving into, thankyou, universe, God, that they
get to have that.
And thank you so much thatthat's a reflection.
You're showing me somethingthat's going to be in my own
(03:04):
unique way for the Ruthieversion.
But that abundance is for metoo.
And wow, like what a...
I don't know.
It's a fun game to shift with.
It is a fun game to shift with.
Well, I want to introduce youofficially before we dive much
deeper, and then we'll get intoeven more of the juice.
So Ruthie Lindsay is the authorof the memoir, There I Am, The
(03:24):
Journey from Hopelessness toHealing, a Nashville-based
speaker, coach, and midwife ofsouls.
She holds space for spaceholders, as many of her clients
are therapists and coaches.
She helps people become endearedto their own life, soul, and
body.
Welcome, Ruthie.
I mean, I'm always excited totalk to you, but Jess is like, I
can't wait to talk to Ruthie.
(03:46):
She's been so excited.
I'm so excited.
I am too.
I am too.
Thank y'all so much.
I have heard you say, maybe itwas on another podcast, that you
really value being different.
And so our question to you is,what is your relationship with
your inner rebel?
(04:07):
Love that question.
I actually taught a course inretreats called The Sacred Rebel
because I love anytime that webreak out of society's boxes,
that is a holy, sacredrebellion, right?
When we become a truer versionof ourselves, when we listen to
our own body's yeses and are inintegrity with ourself, even if
(04:27):
family thinks we're crazy, evenif society and culture says
you're crazy, that is theholiest, most sacred rebellion
An integrity thing that you canoffer this planet, that you can
offer your own body, that youcan offer the world.
And it is not for the faint ofheart.
I so understand why I stayed inthe box as long as I stayed in
(04:49):
the box.
I so understand when people Ilove stay in the box.
We are hardwired for belonging.
And to break out of it, we oftenlose the belonging that kept us
safe.
And so to be a rebel...
which I consider not rebel justto rebel, like I've done in the
past too, but to do it inintegrity, to do it sacredly, is
(05:10):
to do it in a way that ishonoring who you are, honoring
my body's yes and no, speakingthe truth even when it's going
to upset people, speaking myhonest to God truth when you
know that shit's going to hitthe fan.
That is sacred.
Such brave work.
And honestly, for me, it's suchnervous system work because if I
(05:30):
am dysregulated, I don't feelsafe to do it.
So that is a kind of randomanswer, but I really believe
it's the holiest, most profoundanswer.
It's freedom.
It's really freedom.
Because when I live, I am 6'1",and when I try to fold myself
into this tiny little box forapproval and belonging, and I
(05:53):
love that version of me so much.
God bless her.
She is the most precious,earnest human.
And holy shit, I can never goback.
i will not go back it made me soill it made me so unwell
emotionally physicallyspiritually i can't go back can
(06:14):
we dive into why and i'mparaphrasing how you put it but
why you feel being an integrityand the honoring of that sacred
rebel is the greatest gift wecan bring to the world well
Anything that anyone does intheir inner world, we're all
connected.
Anytime anyone wakes up and isfree, that ripples out.
(06:36):
We can't even imagine who that'simpacting.
There's so many studies aboutvibration and regulation and
what it does in communities,what it does for families, what
it does for cultures.
I really believe for a longtime, people that were more
free, I would feel reallyactivated by because it scared
(06:57):
me.
There were people that Iunfollowed.
There were people that I wasjust like, ooh, oh God.
And what's hilarious is I'm 10times weirder than those
versions of them.
Today, I am 10 times more weirdand freaky and all the things
than those versions of them.
But they planted seeds for me.
Mm-hmm.
They planted seeds for me andeveryone will learn it in this
(07:20):
life.
And their journey is perfect.
I truly, my higher self believesthat with every part of me.
My ego self wants everyone tochange and be more like me and
like, you know, and that is notreal.
That's actually not kind orloving or anything, but that's
my shadow.
My higher, truest, moreenlightened, conscious version
(07:41):
of me knows that everyone is ontheir perfect version.
And when I Speak my truth.
When I am my truest, fullest,embodied, freest version of me,
it will activate the shit out ofpeople.
And that is actually kind andloving.
Because for some people, theywill run away and run for the
(08:02):
hills and they're perfect.
For other people, it will plantseeds for them of what is
possible.
The people that I was judging,they sure seemed a lot happier
than I was.
They sure seemed a lot freerthan I was.
And third, some people areready.
It just magnetized the peoplethat are ready to free
(08:24):
themselves from culture'sbullshit telling us we have to
look a certain way, act acertain way, talk a certain way,
date a certain way, perform acertain way, work a certain way.
Who made these rules up?
They're bullshit.
It's patriarchal.
It doesn't fit.
And when we break out of that,the world is better for it.
SPEAKER_02 (08:42):
I think the theme of season two is dismantling the
patriarchy.
And
SPEAKER_03 (08:46):
it's coming up in every single episode, which, you
know, we're right on time.
I had a beautiful side thoughtthat came up this week when you
said, I am weirder.
And whatever you said aroundbeing weird, we had this moment
the other day where we weretalking about who we want to
call into our lives.
And the woman who's leading ourBoulder chapter said she wrote
(09:06):
in this piece of paper at a workevent of I want to attract
weird, powerful women.
And she was so insecure aboutsaying the weird part.
So this conversation has come upa lot this week of being bold
enough to say out loud, I'm aweird, powerful woman.
And I'd like more weird,powerful women in my life.
I mean, what makes us weird?
It's just us being us.
(09:27):
But I just loved her experienceof finding another woman that
saw her post.
It was like, Yes.
And now they're dear friends.
And this other woman was judgingand didn't like it and was like,
why would someone put weird onthe wall?
And it's just to magnetize whatwe're looking for.
So the more we can really be outthere with who we are, the more
(09:47):
magnetic we are to what weactually want to be around.
That's right.
And what's for us.
The weirder you get and thefreer you get, things will die
away.
And it is scary.
Yeah.
People will go away.
work will go away.
But what it opens up, it'sclarifying.
It draws in what's actually truefor you.
Because if those friendshipsneeded you to fit in that tiny
(10:10):
little box, if those employeesor those employers or family
members needed you in those tinylittle boxes, maybe they're not
for you.
Maybe those aren't your people,right?
Because all I have time for now,I'm like the weirder the
freaking better.
I'm like, be so full ofyourself.
(10:30):
Like fill yourself up with somuch of who you are.
I had lunch with two of mydearest friends yesterday.
And like also the people thatI'm drawn to, we can laugh at
ourselves.
We were howling.
Like we have done all thespiritual things and all this
stuff.
If I can't zoom out and laugh atmyself at the hilarity and how
(10:51):
serious I take myself and themistakes that I made, that
levity, the people in my lifethat I am the most drawn to have
so much levity and are able tojoke and be silly and laugh.
That's what I want.
That's what I have time for.
That's what I have space for.
And I've just gotten clearer andclearer what doesn't work and
focusing more on what does.
(11:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, there was many momentswhen I knew I was going to love
you forever when we met becausewe met on a retreat a year ago,
actually last week.
Yeah.
And I don't even know what youand Laura Sprinkle and I were
talking about, but I justremember walking through the
property laughing so hard at thedumbest shit.
And I'm like, we're on the samewavelength.
We love talking about weird,stupid shit and we get each
(11:34):
other.
And we were just giggling and Iwas so pleased.
Yes.
Yes.
Levity matters.
Levity matters.
I know I'm not in a good placewhen I'm taking myself so
seriously and I haven't laughed.
I'm also so intrigued by yourchildhood and you've described
(11:54):
it and maybe there's more layersto it, but you've described it
as being very loving and youfeeling really accepted and
really seen for who you are.
And so it makes me curious whatboxes you still felt you had to
break out of.
I love that you asked thatquestion So much has changed
since I wrote that book.
I love that book.
(12:15):
And I love that version of mewho wrote that book.
And I would have told you likethat was the true version of me
at the time, right?
We protect ourselves and weprotect our families.
And writing that book, it tookme on such a journey.
I had a nervous breakdown at theend of that book.
After I turned it in, I justspent three weeks in a
(12:35):
residential treatment center.
I stopped sleeping for likeeight weeks.
And it was horrible.
I had no clue about.
Right.
Children...
(13:06):
Right.
Not until I did some...
(13:33):
inner child work I learned aboutsome pretty major pre-verbal
trauma and I want to hold twothings at once I love the
non-dual thinking of like I canhold the nuance of everyone was
doing the exact best they couldmy parents loved me so much and
would have done anything for meand they could raise me at their
(13:56):
level of consciousness there wasso much trauma that was never
looked at therapy was never athing and You know, my mom
sought help outside of herthrough religious things, which
that was her perfect journey.
My dad was in Vietnam, had somuch trauma, never looked at any
of the trauma.
And he was very informed by thepatriarchal systems.
(14:18):
My dad never touched a babyuntil we were two years old.
Never once.
He never changed a diaper.
He never fed.
So my mom, we did not havemoney.
My mom had everything on her ownplate.
And if you knew her childhood,everything would make so much
sense.
She was So traumatized on alevel that my heart breaks when
I know what she lived through.
(14:38):
Having heard my mom, of course Ichose her to be my mom because
it sent me on the deepestremothering path of my life,
which is the work I do today.
She didn't know how to do it.
And so she knew how to be thereand make sure I had food, make
sure I look perfect.
Everything was about looks.
In my house, the only reason abody was talked about is if
(14:58):
they're skinny, pretty, fat, orugly.
Every time I'd come home fromschool, Ruthie, what did they
say about you today?
Did they say how pretty youwere?
What did they say about youroutfit?
What did they say about Ilearned, which became a massive
shadow part of my life, thatwhat do the right people say
about me?
What do I need to do to get theright people to like me?
(15:19):
So, of course, I unconsciouslyused people.
I had this whole Hollywood worldwhere people were taking me all
over the world.
And, you know, on some level,the egoic level, that made the
right people think I'm specialand want to be with me.
I blew it all up and I walkedaway from all of it.
And it was a death in the mostprofound way.
(15:41):
Thank you, God, that I blew upmy worlds so intensely.
Can you dig into that?
Because I would blow up ourworlds on purpose.
Sometimes our worlds blow us up.
Sometimes it's both.
And...
I think it's an important thingto talk about because there is
death.
There is death to make room.
And it is painful.
(16:02):
We started off saying where thefriendships that are not for you
do go away.
Can you talk to why, how youblew all of that up?
And also, I want to extend myappreciation for your honesty
and candor.
I love that you are able to goback, reflect, and retract your
own writing.
(16:22):
I think that's very...
brave.
So continue.
And it was my truth when I wroteit.
I think it was my ownself-protective truth to feel
okay in the world.
A child, when a daddy leaves,doesn't say, what's wrong with
daddy?
He's traumatized.
He's having a midlife crisis.
He's having an affair.
They say, something is wrongwith me or else daddy would be
(16:43):
here.
Yes, of course.
A child has to protectthemselves.
So I was still in that Andhonestly, if you'd asked my
brothers, they tell me they hada pretty perfect childhood and
they're perfect and they're ontheir perfect journey.
And it's not my job to fix it orchange it.
If I talk about any of thisstuff, they can't hear it.
And I'm like, that's okay.
No one else has to believe whatmy experience was.
(17:03):
No one else has to believe whatmy body knows was true for me.
Have y'all ever read the book,The Way of Integrity?
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.
That book, Martha going throughit for the third time.
So much of my life shifted.
It feels like the mostclarifying.
It's like, I can't not tell thetruth.
(17:24):
Like, I have to tell my truth,even if it offends people.
Because a lot of what I talkabout offends my hometown.
My dad was the big leader in myhometown.
And I am obsessed with my dad'spast.
I love my dad.
He was a major leader in mytown.
And there were a lot of reallypainful things.
SPEAKER_04 (17:44):
Both
SPEAKER_03 (17:45):
things get to be true.
He had a really good heart andhe was really traumatized.
Both things get to be true.
It's so nice to hold all thetruths at once.
Yeah.
Right?
Totally.
And again, Going back to what wewere saying earlier, that's
nervous system work becausedysregulated nervous system only
sees the world black and white.
Most people walking on thisplanet is living in that us
(18:07):
against them, that dualthinking.
It's bad or it's good.
There's no gray area.
There is no room for nuance.
I feel like part of my soul'swork, and I'm also a Libra, but
it's to live in that graybecause both things get to be
true.
It was fucked up and they lovedme as well as they knew how to
do it.
So going back to 2019, up tothat point, two things are true.
(18:31):
Amazing humans.
No one's bad here.
Amazing humans.
I was very embedded in theHollywood world.
I had a lot of really famouspeople that the world knows
taking me under their wing,taking me around the world,
getting me inside of fancyplaces.
traveling, jobs, all kinds ofthings, honestly.
The reason I had a book deal isI was with a very famous person
(18:54):
backstage at Glennon Doyle'sbook tour.
And they were obsessed with thisperson I was with.
And they opened up a door for meto talk about my story.
And I ended up getting Glennon'sbook agent.
It opened up a lot of doors forme.
And I think that none of thatwas by chance because I was
supposed to write that book.
I was supposed to have thatbreakdown.
I was supposed to see my shadowparts.
(19:14):
I was supposed to see how Iunconsciously use people.
All of it was a part of it.
And all of it ultimately servedmy greater good.
And it was freaking brutal on alevel I can't even describe.
Because in 2018, I had a prettymassive spiritual awakening that
changed everything.
And it was scary.
(19:34):
When it happened, I thought Ihad the spiritual awakening.
I see now.
Now life's just going to be soplayful and easy.
Isn't that cute?
Y'all.
It was one of the most painful,traumatic, debilitating, all the
masks that I learned to wear tosurvive on this planet and to
(19:56):
belong.
I was homecoming queen.
I always knew how to makefriends.
I knew what I needed to do.
I remember jumping back a littlebit in second grade.
I was probably seven, havingthis conscious thought, if you
smile really big at people andjust ask them a ton of
questions, they will love you.
(20:16):
I was seven years old.
They don't have to know anythingabout you, but all of a sudden
they will love you.
And I was not wrong.
I had such a high level ofemotional intelligence.
I couldn't read.
I was the worst student ever,but I was the queen of the
playground.
I knew how to be with people.
I knew how to make people feelspecial.
I knew what to do to get peopleto like me, right?
(20:39):
And if you make people feelspecial, they like you.
That was my motivation.
It wasn't because I wantedpeople to feel special.
I wanted them to like me so Icould come home and tell my mom
what people said about me thatday.
I needed to be needed.
And that followed me throughoutmy life.
I knew what I needed to do.
I sat at a different table everyday at lunch because then no one
(21:00):
has to get to really know me.
I never had one group offriends.
I was friends with everyone.
I was that smiley, happy girl.
When inside, I felt like I wasdying inside.
I remember the day afterHomecoming Queen, the principal
told my dad, who was thesuperintendent, that I got more
votes than anyone had evergotten because I got the black
vote and the white vote.
And it was always down themiddle, segregated.
(21:22):
And of course, it made me feelso good that night.
And I will never forget thedepression I felt the next
morning.
Oh.
Yeah.
(21:48):
Everything's great.
I had a massive eating disorder.
I was starving myself all thetime.
I hated my body.
So that's a little backstory,right?
So 2019, I finished writing thisbook.
I had had this spiritualawakening at the end of 2018,
moving into 2019.
I did not know how to handle it.
I was not grounded.
(22:10):
I worked with plant medicine,but didn't know how to
integrate.
If you have a spiritualawakening, you just need to get
locked up for a while, not be inculture.
Dear God.
I was so ungrounded and veryuntethered, seeing things,
hearing things, experiencingthings I didn't have a context
for.
I didn't have people to talk toabout it.
It was brand new.
(22:31):
I finished the book.
I changed the book drastically.
I changed the name of the book,but I still wasn't aware of any
of the pre-verbal stuff.
That summer of 2019, seven yearsto the week of my first nervous
breakdown.
I had lived in a bed for sevenyears because of a complication
of dying in a car accident and awire piercing my brainstem and
(22:52):
had a massive nervous breakdown.
When I got out of that bed sevenyears later, I'm not kidding, to
the week, I stopped sleepingagain.
My body was just not okay.
And I had done so much workaround pain with my rep.
I had done zero work aroundgestation to that wreck
happening.
(23:12):
And I lost it.
The shame spiraled.
What do they say about you?
I'm having a nervous breakdown.
I'm going to three weeks ofresidential treatment.
Oh, here's the best.
My friend owns this place calledOnsite.
We used to have a podcasttogether.
And we would put on theseincredible retreats.
All these famous people that Iwould invite would come in.
All the people doing all thisamazing work in the world, we
(23:34):
would bring them together for aweek-long intensive at Onsite,
co-hosting it with my friendMiles.
People come from all over theworld at this place.
I helped organize it.
I had invited all the people.
I'm losing my mind.
So they send me down the hill atthe same property for three-week
residential treatment.
All my friends, all the peoplethat I had invited are at the
(23:56):
top of the hill.
No, no.
I am losing my mind.
I am so ashamed.
I'm supposed to be putting out abook that says There I am, the
journey from hopelessness tohealing, and I'm losing my
fucking mind.
Can't even breathe.
So much shame.
I didn't want anyone to see me.
I'm having panic attacks allnight long.
I don't believe in a placecalled hell, but I know hell.
(24:19):
I believe hell is the illusionof separation from God, from
yourself, and from others.
I know hell so viscerally inthis life.
I know hell.
Hell, and I can dance there in amillisecond when I believe that
illusion of separation.
That season was so dark.
And I was like, I'm a fraud.
I'm not even putting the bookout.
I am a liar.
None of it's real.
(24:40):
I can't help anyone.
The stories were the meanest,most vile.
Shame and fear have probablybeen two of the loudest parts in
my life.
And they were driving my life atthat point.
I will also say it was the mostimportant part.
Thank you, universe.
Thank you, God.
(25:00):
Thank you, body, for thatexperience because things died.
And everything that died werethe conditioned parts of me, the
mask that I learned to wear, tobelong.
Now, people talk about egodeath.
My ego is still right here.
Like, she's still here.
Yeah.
Until I become, and I don'tforesee this happening in this
life, fully enlightened, I willhave a massive shadow.
(25:22):
My shadow is a part ofeverything I do.
But all of a sudden, I wasconscious of it.
I started becoming aware ofthese parts.
Started becoming aware ofpre-verbal trauma.
Started becoming aware of theseparts of me that I don't have to
over-identify with.
And I can learn to bringcompassion and care and
kindness.
Because up to this point, no oneon this planet has healed
through shame.
(25:43):
It has not worked yet.
If it worked, we would all beliving our best lives,
completely awakened andenlightened.
Like it doesn't work.
We don't heal that way.
And so learning tools to go takecare of baby Ruthie, whose mama
was really unwell when she wasborn and couldn't take care of
me.
And so I didn't have attachmentor attunement.
(26:03):
Learning how to take care ofher, walking away from
friendships that didn't serveme.
No one's wrong.
No one's bad.
It just, it didn't fit anymore.
It didn't fit anymore.
I saw my shadow.
I am hanging out in situationsthat don't feel aligned for me.
I'm a massive introvert.
I know I don't come off as late.
I am a massive, highlysensitive, empathic, porous
(26:26):
introvert.
But I was conditioned to be likean Enneagram 7, talk to anyone.
And I thought it was my painthat kept me from being able to
fully embody that.
No, I am an Enneagram 4 thatfeels everything, that is so
emotional, could like gnashtheir teeth and feel the whole
world's pain.
True story.
I was removing a spider from myhouse the other day and I
(26:48):
accidentally pulled out one ofits legs and I cried.
I cried over the fuckingspider's leg.
I am so sensitive.
All of you guys are much nicerthan me.
It's so over the top and I knowit, but also I laugh at myself.
I'm able to laugh at myself.
I wish you could see out mywindow.
I feed...
Hundreds, if not thousands ofbirds.
I feed every feral cat that everexisted.
(27:08):
I feed raccoons and possums anddogs.
I mean, like.
Oh, my gosh.
I want to do your human design.
All I know is I'm a generator.
Is that a human design?
It is, but.
That's all I know.
All right, we'll talk later.
She needs a lot more informationabout you.
Yeah, that's all I know.
I would love it, though.
So in that season, right afterCOVID hit, my little ego
(27:28):
thought, I'm writing this book.
Y'all, I have the best agent inthe world.
I got the biggest book signingever.
My book came out three weeksinto COVID.
I'm in my underwear feeling sosorry for myself, but then
feeling shame for feeling sorryfor myself because people are
dying and I'm not on thismassive book tour.
I had no idea what the book did.
I told them not to tell mebecause I didn't want to know.
(27:49):
But the book did exactly what itwas supposed to do because it
sent me on this journey.
Thank you, God, that all thesethings fell in my lap.
I did not want to write a bookat all, but I did it because I
thought it was supposed to makeme like more famous and help
more people.
And I did that book for myself.
That is the creative process.
(28:10):
It's not even about the resultat all.
The process of it broke the shitdown and it was so important.
It got so clarifying.
And then COVID hit.
I couldn't travel.
I used to travel constantly andI worked with all these brands
and they'd send me all over theworld.
Nothing was happening.
And all of a sudden I was in thewoods every day.
I started growing a garden.
(28:30):
I started cooking for the firsttime in my entire life.
My mom hated cooking.
I never learned how to cook.
I started spending so much timewith animals.
I started spending so much timewith the people that felt so
aligned with me that I feltexpansive being around and I
didn't feel like I had to be acertain way or can say a certain
thing or you can't post itbecause the world knows them and
(28:51):
they need to FaceTune themselvesbefore and you have to look a
certain, you know, it all diedaway.
And what was left was so trueand so beautiful and funny and
slow.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
(29:14):
Mm-hmm.
That season was just thisclarifying cut through the
bullshit.
This does not fit anymore, eventhough the world thinks this
(29:34):
matters.
And, you know, my little egoscome in and it's like, you were
a husband.
You were so buddy then.
And my higher self's like,bitch, what a story.
You're hilarious.
I've never felt more free than Ido in this moment sitting across
from y'all right now.
UNKNOWN (29:51):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (29:51):
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow.
There's so much here.
We talked a lot in the firstseason about that dismantling,
that we can really build wholelives on top of our inauthentic
selves.
SPEAKER_01 (30:04):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (30:04):
And I've heard you say, you kind of said it now, it
was like the best thing thatever happened to you.
Unless you've really livedthrough the rock bottom, people
don't realize that it can be thebest thing that's ever happened
to you.
Yes.
But you also had multipleexperiences.
I'm like, are we done, God?
(30:32):
Can we be done with that?
I think I'm good.
struck and then there was otherthings going on so you went
(30:53):
through this huge pain journeyyeah that you describe in the
book yeah and then there's likea whole other layer of a pain
journey that i'm like i knowshe's so wonderful why my soul
y'all i've had more come tojesus meetings with my soul be
like bitch really this is theshit you want to experience this
(31:14):
round of earth school And I'm soendeared to my soul because I'm
like, you are the bravestfucking human soul, whatever.
Like, I am in awe of my soul.
And I'm like, really?
These are the things you signedup for the experience.
Like, I'm the only human in theworld that's had a wire pierce
their brainstem, right?
(31:36):
Like, I shouldn't be alive.
I shouldn't be breathing.
I shouldn't be walking.
And for some reason, I am stillhere.
And even after all thathappened, I was still so asleep
for so long and just so frozenand so scared.
And I have so much tendernessfor all those versions of me
because what I believe now, ify'all had interviewed me five
(31:56):
years ago, all I would havetalked about was my pain story.
Yeah, this is what I want toknow is what's your perspective
now?
It's important to have context.
Like I will never say don't talkto me about my pain story
because it's so important tohave that context to understand.
But now the thing that lights meup is talking about what pain
has invited me into.
Because what we know is pain isuniversal.
(32:17):
If you come to earth school, youbrave soul, if you come here,
you're going to experience pain.
I don't care who you are.
There are different levels ofpain, but you will experience
pain.
But it's not the pain thathappens that causes the
suffering.
It's the story we tellourselves.
The pain story, yes.
That's where we suffer.
I have suffered so.
So much over my pain stories inthis life.
(32:39):
And now I'm so bored with them.
So now I get lit up.
It turns me on to talk aboutwhat pain has invited me into.
And can I tell you some of thosethings?
Yes, please.
So I believe pain has invited meinto nervous system work and
understanding that when I livewith a dysregulated nervous
system, which I believe mynervous system was probably
(33:00):
dysregulated in the womb.
My mom was losing her mind.
I don't know that I ever fullyembodied pain.
you know, until now.
And I'm still working on it.
This is ongoing work that I'lldo until the day I take my last
breath.
But I do a lot of nervous systemwork.
When I'm dysregulated, I seelife in this us against them,
this black and white, they'regood and they're bad.
And everyone that thinks they'regood thinks the other side is
(33:23):
bad.
And over here, all these peoplethat we think are bad, think
these people are bad.
Look at our political system.
It's the most dualistic usagainst them.
Everyone's in it.
I mean, not everyone, but most.
I'd say most of the world.
And it's coming from a verydysregulated.
There is no room for nuance whenyou're dysregulated.
There's no room to be open tochange and having your mind
(33:46):
changed when you'redysregulated, right?
And so when I am more regulatedand I feel safer in my body, I
will never tell someone that I'mgoing to create a safe space for
them.
I will say I will create a bravespace because only you know if
you feel safe.
It's an internal thing.
job.
I never tell my clients I'mcreating a safe space.
(34:07):
They get to choose if they feelsafe with me.
So I'm going to give you toolsto create safety within you.
Learning and studying andpracticing nervous system work
has changed my whole world.
Shadow work has changed my lifeon a level I cannot describe to
you.
There's that Carl Jung quotethat I always get a little wrong
because I can't rememberexactly, but it's something to
(34:28):
the effect of until theunconscious becomes conscious,
you're going to have the sameresults over and over and you're
going to call it fate.
I think that's the way life isbecause we're co-creating every
second of the days, but I'meither co-creating out of fear
and hate or I'm co-creating outof love and expansion.
And when you're unconscious,you're co-creating out of fear
(34:49):
and lack and hate, right?
I know what I don't want.
I know what I hate.
I know what's wrong with me.
And we're co-creating morerealities and then we call it
fate.
We think that's just the way itis.
Or I can co-create with magic,falling so in love with what's
here right now.
and being able to have a vision.
This isn't saying that I don'tget to like have magical things
(35:10):
in the future, but I want tofind magic right now.
And then I think the biggestthings I've noticed, the theme
I've had going on so much latelyis how can I bring more
pleasure, more presence, andmore play.
Presence, play, pleasure.
(35:31):
So much pleasure.
Like Your body cannot releasecortisol at the same time it's
releasing oxytocin.
But to feel more pleasure, Ihave to be in the present
moment.
I have to actually allow myselfto feel the pain.
For the longest time, myfavorite quote was Viktor
Frankl, the deeper sorrow carvesinto your being, the more joy
(35:51):
you can contain.
But what I didn't understand isI would think about how much
misery I'd been in.
So I'm like, I just one dayexperienced the best joy in the
whole world.
I've suffered more than any ofmy friends.
And now I'm just thinking aboutit.
It's like knowledge is just arumor until it moves into the
muscle.
I could think about my traumaand I would re-traumatize myself
thinking about how miserable Iwas and how awful it is and how
(36:14):
bad it is to hurt so bad everysecond of every day.
And like, I lived there for solong.
Right.
Right.
(36:41):
If that worked, no pastor wouldever have affairs.
We can't pray it away or else noone would be gay.
Like, give me a freaking break.
I was going to say, pray the gayaway.
It's crazy.
It's not how it works.
It's never worked.
We know the body keeps thescore.
It goes to the basement.
It's going to come out sideways.
People are going to haveaffairs.
Anger gets pushed down, comesout as rage.
(37:03):
Anger is holy.
But when we don't know how toactually feel it, bring
compassion to it, and treat itlike our beloved child that has
information for us, it will comeout sideways.
We are going to cuss out theperson that just cut you off in
traffic.
You are going to yell at yourchild.
You are going to scream at yourhusband.
It's going to come out.
It doesn't go away because youprayed it away and you wished it
(37:25):
away or you hated it enough.
It's never worked.
Only thing that shifts things ispresence and love.
How can I meet it?
How can I be with it?
How can I be with that withoutmaking it bad, without making it
evil, without making itsomething I have to change?
I can't change the state of theworld right now.
Is it insane?
(37:45):
Yeah, it's insane.
And I'm not going to change it.
But what I can do is be morepresent, lean into what's here,
be more loving to my neighbors,myself, animals, and my
community.
The world needs more enlivenedbeings.
It doesn't need more people withmore knowledge.
It needs more alive, awakenedpeople.
(38:08):
This is not me saying this iswhat everyone else wants to
believe.
This is just what works for me,you know?
Melissa, are you noticing atheme in season two outside of
the patriarchy and the fucked upgovernment?
I feel like the conversationkeeps expanding around being in
our bodies and building theresiliency to feel.
Yes.
And to process our feelings andto be with what is and to be
(38:31):
present.
Yeah.
But our minds do work anarrative.
It is how we perceive reality,right?
So we are in a constantnarrative.
If we are going to be innarrative anyway, we might as
well have power over thatnarrative or take ownership of
that narrative.
So maybe you can speak into,okay, when we hear the pain
(38:52):
story, how do we reframe it?
How do we...
Something my partner and I do,and I invite my clients to do
this over and over.
What we say when there's anegative story that's causing me
pain, instead of saying, I amanxious or what they're doing to
(39:13):
me is da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da,the language we use is the story
I'm making up right now.
SPEAKER_01 (39:19):
That's such a good one.
SPEAKER_03 (39:21):
Just that statement creates a one-degree shift.
It creates a little bit ofspaciousness away from this, I
know this is a fact.
Because do you know that's afact?
Do we know that our whole worldis going to end in four years?
Do we know, is that a fact thatthe world is over in four years?
(39:41):
We don't know that.
The universe is so much biggerthan any kind of brain thinking
story.
And does this story cause mepain and retraction?
Or does this feel like, Theysay, pray, move your feet.
Does this feel like something Ican move towards to bring more
love to?
More than likely, most of thestories that are running through
(40:03):
my head, and there's so muchscience backing this, are
limiting stories that do notserve our bodies that aren't
even necessarily true.
How many of those stories thatyou told actually came true?
When you create that little bitof spaciousness, one, like we
said, it gives a little bit of aone degree shift.
(40:23):
Two, when you bring it up tosomeone, you get to examine it
and you also give the otherperson an opportunity to tell
the truer story.
And Eric and I use that witheach other so much because there
are times when he brings that upthat I get to say, you're not
wrong.
I am mad at you.
I just not feel brave enough tosay it.
(40:43):
But more often than not, it'snot a true story.
And then you get to say thetruer story, the one that's
actually more loving and moretrue.
and how you actually feel anddefenses get to come down.
Oh, absolutely.
Because when you come in andsay, when you did that, you just
made me feel blah, blah, blah.
Like, how well has that evergone?
(41:05):
Doesn't go well in my life.
It's never gone well.
To that point, though, you saidsomething about how often do
those stories end up being true,but I think we are so attached
to our stories that we actuallydo things to make them true.
So true.
Right?
So if we're in the story, wethen react to the story and
create conflict where therewasn't conflict to validate it.
(41:26):
Until the unconscious becomesconscious.
Yeah.
You have the same result overand over and call it fate.
I'm so glad you brought that upagain.
Sorry to interrupt you.
It's just, It's just a reminder.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And all our brains want is to beproven right.
All our brains want are to beproven right.
If I think everyone on the otherside is this and this and this,
(41:46):
I'm going to scour informationto prove my narrative.
Algorithms help that becausewe're all in our little echo
chambers.
If me and someone that thinksvery differently than me, which
mostly is my family, Google theexact same thing, Their results
of their Google feed would becompletely different than what
(42:07):
my Google feed would show me.
But this is because we think ourminds are who we are, right?
Because we identify with thevoice in our head.
So we're threatened by it notbeing true because we've made
the voice who we are.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, it makes sense.
It's that unconscious bias.
Here's one example.
For the longest time, because ofthe wounding I had in childhood
(42:29):
and not having the attachment orattunement, my story is I'm all
alone and everyone will leaveme.
SPEAKER_04 (42:34):
That
SPEAKER_03 (42:35):
has been a theme in my life.
I'm all alone and everyone willleave me.
I did not date anyone until Iwas out of college.
I would choose people that wouldultimately leave me.
And then I could say, see, I'mall alone and everyone leaves
me.
I did that over and and overunconsciously because of this
core wound.
(42:57):
My unconscious thing wasscanning people to be who's not
safe, who's avoidant, hittingall the things that I grew up
with
SPEAKER_04 (43:05):
to
SPEAKER_03 (43:05):
feed that narrative for me to be like, that's what
it is.
That's who I am.
Every man leaves me.
And I believed that until my midto late 30s, until I did it.
And then I was like, what?
Bullshit.
I'm amazing.
Now you have such a love.
I'm so curious.
(43:27):
You're so lit up about presence,pleasure, and play.
And I know this man of yours hasa big role in that.
So can you share what doespresence, pleasure, and play
look like in your
SPEAKER_01 (43:38):
life now?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (43:40):
Thank you for asking.
I mean, Eric, he is nothing Ithought I was looking for, but
he was everything I needed.
He makes me laugh until I amactually in pain.
We are so goofy and silly.
He's an Enneagram six.
I don't like get too built up inall this, but it's a fun tool.
So I identify as a four.
(44:01):
He identifies as a six.
He's more cerebral and a doer.
He gets more things done in oneday than I probably do in a
month.
I move very slow.
I feel everything so deeply.
He'll walk by me and he's like,are you feeling things?
And then thinking about them andthen feeling them some more.
And I'm like, Yes.
And he's like, let's go on awalk.
(44:22):
Do you want to come dance withme?
And he can get me up and bringme out when I'm taking myself so
seriously or suffering overanimal abuse or suffering over
any kind of injustice on theplanet or how people are
treating the soil.
And he can help pull me out.
And we will laugh and be sofreaking doofy.
One of the things that's beenthe most beautiful with him is
(44:46):
I've never shown someone so manyof my shadowy parts, my deepest
fears, my deepest insecurities,the parts that I would hide away
when I didn't want anyone tosee.
And not only does he not runaway, he leans in so hard and
holds me in that and loves me.
It is amazing.
A love that I didn't know I'dget to have in this life.
(45:09):
I saw glimpses of it with otherpeople.
And it's so human.
Don't hear me say that it's notmessy and all the things.
But in the mess, we just gotowards each other.
I think the thing that is themost beautiful is we laugh so
much.
We both do our own inner work.
He supports me doing my owninner work.
I'll be like, babe, I'm going togo to this retreat.
It's kind of expensive, but Ifeel so called.
(45:30):
He's like, great.
We're abundant.
Go, babe.
He does everything.
therapy every week.
He's taken an art class, runs 13miles every Sunday.
He does his own inner work and Iget to release more control to
let him be on his own journeybecause control is loud at my
table.
And when he sees it, he talks tome about it lovingly.
(45:50):
There's a tenderness, humor, anda playfulness that just, it's
such medicine for me.
There's no one I'd rather spinwith besides myself.
I love being with myself.
I'm my favorite person to bewith.
Outside of myself, he and my catare my favorite to be with.
And I feel so blessed for that.
I just want to acknowledgebecause I have to watch myself
(46:14):
in this language because I wentthrough my own version,
definitely not what you wentthrough, but my own version of
dismantling and starting mywhole life over and through it
wanting some kind of outcome toprove that the work was leading
somewhere.
And for a long time- You reallydon't know if it is.
Yeah.
And so I keep catching myselflike it's not a reward, but it
(46:37):
is a reflection of authenticity.
It is a reflection that the moreyou come home to yourself, the
more you release the layers ofinauthenticity, like attracts
like the people who resonatewith the essence of you will
find you.
And it does.
Yes.
become what you're describing.
Yes.
Oh my goodness.
You went through so much.
I'm just feeling so gratefulthat you get to live that now.
(47:02):
Thank you.
And it is not for the faint ofheart.
I understand why people stay inthe box because it feels a lot
safer.
It feels a lot safer to live inthat black and white, like tell
me what to do so that I can beokay and be safe.
I don't judge it because I getit.
I Get it, if my world hadn'tblown up in 9 million ways, I
(47:22):
probably would still, this isnot time, but I'd probably be
the most basic bitch you've evermet in your entire, this is what
we'll call the episode.
How to not be a basic bitch.
Oh, my gosh.
Like, that was me.
Like, whatever you want.
Yes, ma'am.
Yes, sir.
Yes, thank you.
And then I would just go homeand binge eat and watch 9
million episodes of a showbecause I was not okay.
(47:45):
And I don't want to come off allof a sudden after that 2018-2019
thing okay.
I was just good.
It has been a struggle.
I have struggled.
I have had to dismantle so manypain stories and I still can
dance in that so easily.
It's part of life, right?
It's a part of life.
(48:06):
Like being human is being in thepain story.
Yes.
And then you remember again.
And then I'll forget and I'll goback to my bullshit and then
I'll remember again.
And I'm like, oh, bed and work.
Here's what I actually want.
Here's how I actually want tobe.
I love what Martha Beck talksabout, the eagle and the mouse.
We can have the eagle eye view.
My physical therapist teacher is80 years old.
(48:29):
She might be five foot nothing.
She still goes to conferencesbecause she loves it.
She loves it.
And like, she's walking aroundwith a notebook of life.
Like, what can I learn?
Yesterday, she was like, youwrote a book.
Will you bring me your book?
I have to read your book.
She's 80.
So she is an eagle eye view ofhow I want to be at 80 years
old.
She is alive and healthy andjoyful.
(48:52):
All I focused on the past islike, that scares the shit out
of me.
I don't want to do that.
So I'm like, what are my babymouse steps today to be more
alive, to be more curious, tofeel more play and pleasure and
laughter and joy and bring thatlove?
What do I need to do today?
to help me become that kind ofcrone energy.
(49:14):
I love it.
It feels like such a perfectstopping point.
It's so beautiful, Ruthie.
Thank you for, I mean, I just...
I want to bottle you up and putyou in my pocket and hang out
with you all the time.
I'm coming.
Thank you for your generosityand your honesty.
It's so refreshing andbeautiful.
I'm so honored to be here withy'all.
Thank you so much for invitingme and allowing me to share a
(49:36):
bit of my story and just yourgenerous, thoughtful questions.
It's just been a real joy.
Very grateful.
Thank you.
UNKNOWN (49:46):
Bye.
Bye.
Bye.
Popular Podcasts
My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark
My Favorite Murder is a true crime comedy podcast hosted by Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Each week, Karen and Georgia share compelling true crimes and hometown stories from friends and listeners. Since MFM launched in January of 2016, Karen and Georgia have shared their lifelong interest in true crime and have covered stories of infamous serial killers like the Night Stalker, mysterious cold cases, captivating cults, incredible survivor stories and important events from history like the Tulsa race massacre of 1921. My Favorite Murder is part of the Exactly Right podcast network that provides a platform for bold, creative voices to bring to life provocative, entertaining and relatable stories for audiences everywhere. The Exactly Right roster of podcasts covers a variety of topics including historic true crime, comedic interviews and news, science, pop culture and more. Podcasts on the network include Buried Bones with Kate Winkler Dawson and Paul Holes, That's Messed Up: An SVU Podcast, This Podcast Will Kill You, Bananas and more.
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com