Shazia Imam: From Rock Bottom to Sky High — How Adversity Fuels Radical Self-Discovery - Inner Rebel

Episode Transcript
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Shazia Imam (00:51):
What started the podcast?

Jessica (00:52):
Oh what started it?

I feel like you guys did it.
You hit the ground running.
You are just in it.
I love it.

Jessica (00:59):
I think we were having a conversation, melissa, one
day, and both of us said that ithad been in the back of our
minds to do a podcast one day.
Then, melissa being Melissa,she just contacted me being like
well, why aren't we doing that?
Should we do it together?
Should we do it together?
Yeah, and it just happened.

Melissa (01:16):
I would say it just happened.
We spent months figuring out,being very intentional about
what are we doing.
Why are we doing?
It Is what you want to talkabout, the same as what I want
to talk about.
Are our visions a lot?
We were really.

Jessica (01:30):
Yes, I mean in terms of the spark of the idea.
Very thoughtful.

Melissa (01:33):
Yeah.

Jessica (01:34):
Okay, yeah, once the spark of the idea happened, yeah
.
Then we had a lot ofbrainstorming sessions about
what we wanted it to look like,but I had no idea what I was
getting into.
I have to be honest, I'm soglad we're doing it, but it was
so much bigger a project than Iever imagined.

Melissa (01:52):
But don't you feel like that about everything, every
bigger vision or everything thatyou end up really loving in
your life, the things that takea lot of work you would never do
if you actually knew how muchwork they would take?
Yeah, that's a good question.

We would never start anything I don't know.
I have to think about that one.
I mean, yeah, you're right.

Melissa (02:10):
Everything I'm thinking of I'm like, yeah, you're right
, Think about your journey ofbecoming a coach and leaving
your job and going through whatyou went through with your
marriage and your baby and allof that, to become the one, the
woman that you are today, to beable to hold the space and have
the life that you have.
All of that, no, you would neverbe like, yeah, I would love to
sign up for that.

(02:30):
You would be like, absolutelynot, I don't want to go through
any of this shit.
Yeah, no way.
But it's such a critical partof how you're able to be who you
are and have the life that youhave today.

Yeah, I remember too, even before everything had
happened, when I was in thethroes of everything and my
friend was like, well, you'remeant for something bigger, and
I just burst out crying and Iwas like I don't want to be
meant for something bigger, Iwant a boring life.
Give me the boring life.
So, it was really interesting,but part of the tears, too, were
like I knew the reality.

(03:02):
I knew that deep in my soulthat was also my truth, but I
didn't want it to be my truth.
Who wants to go through allthat and then be the one who's
telling the story?
I didn't.

Melissa (03:15):
No, we would not choose that.
No, we're going to be goinginto the episode, so let me
introduce you and then we'll goin.
I mean, we're already in, butwe'll we're in the shallow end
and we'll just dive right intothe deep end.
One of the things that I am sopresent to is that I feel like
even though you didn't know thisand Jessica and I haven't even

(03:36):
talked about this that you havebeen a part of this podcast
coming together for a couplereasons.
One you and I were in the samemastermind with Christina
Maglino and became acquaintedthrough that and established our
relationship through that, andChristina is the one that
introduced Jess and I.
And you were a part of my firstsummit that I ever did and that

(03:57):
was a big part.
You know it's not a podcast.
I interviewed 20 some peopleand you interviewed me on that,
so that was like sort of apodcast desire kickoff.
So you have been a bigger partof this journey than you
probably have ever realized, soI feel special to have you here.

Thank you, You're reminding me too, my goodness,
the things that we do in theways that we connect.
Oh, I love hearing about thatagain because I forgot even I
forgot some of that, melissa.
It's just crazy, life gets sobusy, and that just really
grounded me in connection.

Melissa (04:30):
Thank you, yeah.
So it feels really special tohave you here and getting to
share you with the world, andyou've been such an important
piece of helping me share mewith the world, so it feels like
a full circle moment.
Shazi and mom is anaward-winning speaker, an ICF
certified coach and a host ofthe top 12 podcasts.
Feminine and Fulfilled.
After experiencing her own lifefall apart and losing her own

(04:51):
son and then husband, shazirealized it was a divine push to
begin living her real life.
This blossomed into finding hersoulmate, discovering her
feminine power and living herdeep purpose.
Those are three very big topicsthat we could talk about for an
entire season of the podcast,and one of her deep purposes

(05:13):
involves women unleashing theirwhole selves to feel fulfilled,
happy and full.
And she says isn't life morefabulous this way?
Which I love, because anybodywho even looks at one picture of
you could see Shazi presents avery fabulous life.
Every branding picture you haveI'm like this is amazing.

(05:33):
You are so fabulous.
We are so happy to have youhere, Shazi, I'm welcome.

Thank you.
Thank you so much.
I'm so excited to be here andconnect with both of you.
You both have such a specialplace in my heart.
Melissa, you were sharing abouthow we connected and I wanted
to say, too, that when weconnected in the mastermind that
we were in together, I justremember the like fire that you
were Like.
You are a person who takesaction.
I felt like we were kindredspirits because you know, when

(06:03):
you find somebody that you justconnect with and you're like, oh
yeah, I see that mirror inmyself and you were that person.
I loved it.
I loved witnessing your journeyand I love seeing where you are
today and chatting with youagain.
So I'm excited for that.
And then Jess oh my gosh, jess,you had this profound impact on
my life because you did my humandesign reading.

(06:24):
I did my first ever Actually myonly because I'm like nobody's
ever going to do it as well asJess.
Yeah, it's true, it's so true,and it was so eye-opening and
the depth that you went into andshowing me who I am in that
lens.
I go back to that over and overand over again that my purpose

(06:47):
truly is to be myself, to enjoythis life, and I keep getting
taught that lesson over and overagain, even though, of course,
my perfectionism is like no,you're supposed to do XYZ.
And it's like no, jess said I'ma human designer, you know to
enjoy.
And it's been right everysingle time.
So I'm so excited about ourconversation today.

Jessica (07:07):
Thank you so much and thank you for being here I was
so excited to see you again.
I am just in awe of you andyour work and everything that
you are bringing to the world.
I was tuning into your podcast,which is amazing, so we have so
many juicy questions for you.
I'm really excited to dig in.

I'm an open book and I love juicy.
You know Careful what you say.

Melissa (07:28):
Yeah, careful what you say.

Oh no, you can ask whatever, just mark the episode
explicit if needed.
We've been doing that lately,yeah like most of our.

Melissa (07:36):
Most of ours are like explicit, explicit, explicit.
It's fine Because we don't wantto censor, you know.
We don't want to censor anybody.
That's the whole point of thepodcast to truly be your
authentic self.
So we've gotten asked by Idon't know how many people are
like can I say fuck on here?
And we're like you get to bewhoever you are.
So that's the point of this,you know.

Jessica (07:53):
So, on that note, there's a question that we like
to lead with that we ask all ourguests we know how incredible
you are, but I also want to hearmore about your experience
being yourself, and so we askwho are you and how is that
different from who you thoughtor were taught you were supposed
to be?

Melissa (08:13):
Gosh, okay, that's a big question.

Jessica (08:15):
It's going to be right from the get go.

Yeah, I love it.
You know who I am is.
I have many layers and facets.
I am on a journey with myselfin that there's the shazia that
you see on the outside and, yeah, I love my branding photos.
They're amazing and I love toshow up vibrant.
I believe we should be in color, living in color, and I'm all

(08:39):
about that.
And there's also a part of methat is very deep and thoughtful
and deeply caring.
I'm a very sensitive soul too,so I'm very strong but also
sensitive, and when I was young,I learned very early on that I

(09:00):
was very charming and thatworked for me.
It really worked for me.
But at the same time, I alsolearned very quickly, growing up
in a very dysfunctionalhousehold, that there were
things that I couldn't share,and so a large part of my life
was being something on theoutside but feeling very lonely

(09:22):
on the inside.
My role was very performative.
You know I did great.
I did great in all thecheckboxes, got a great degree
and got married and did all ofthe things, got a great job.
And, yeah, on paper I've alwayslooked really good, to be honest
.
I've always looked great.
That's not new for me.
But what's changed for me fromthe way that I thought I had to

(09:44):
be was I no longer feel that Ionly have to be that perfect on
paper, pretty on the outsidewoman.
I get to be all of me and thatmeans showing the full range of
who I am, and not just to theworld, but to myself, really
exploring those parts of myself,really being in relationship

(10:05):
with.
Wow, everything in my lifethese days is really amazing and
also I still feel very lonely.
I still feel like that.
So, exploring that, what doesthat mean?
Do I get to be with that person?
Do I still love and acceptmyself?
Yes, I do, but that piece ofloving and accepting myself is

(10:27):
the piece that really was thejourney that I only discovered,
I would say, in the last decade.

Melissa (10:34):
Can you walk us through that journey of getting to be
more loving and accepting ofyourself?

Yeah, you know, I think I was.
So, actually, what is the word?
It's not disillusioned, it'slike illusioned.
It was like I had almost fakedit so well to myself that I
didn't realize that I didn'taccept myself right, that I was
trying so hard.
And I don't know if you guysknow your enneagram, but I'm a

(11:01):
type three, so it's the achiever.
So for type threes, we're allabout the outside and we derive
our worth from outsidevalidation.
Yeah, as long as I had that, Ifelt like I could keep going.
But when life happened, you know, as you shared in my bio, my
son passed away and then mymarriage fell apart quickly.

(11:21):
Thereafter I found myself moredevastated at the loss of my
marriage than the loss of my son, and that loss was so great for
me that I would drive aroundand wish a car would come hit me
so that I could die, because Ifelt that my life was not worth

(11:44):
living if I was alone and I hadfailed, and I had deemed that I
was a failure because everythingI'd worked so hard to build had
completely unraveled.
So this is the level at whichthe outside validation, the
external, was such a driver thatI didn't even think it was

(12:04):
worth me being in this worldbecause I didn't fit some mold.
And when I hit that rock bottomI really had to take a look at
myself and say, like who am I?
Right that age old question,like who am I?
Because now I don't haveanything, I have nothing to
define me, I don't have arelationship to define me.

(12:24):
I didn't care that much aboutmy job, you know.
But what defines me?
Nobody sees I'm a mom anymore.
What is my role as a woman inthis world?
And it was a really interestingplace to get to and then go on
that journey to discover myself.

Jessica (12:40):
Yeah, I just wanna say that we have some parallels in
our experience, and I relate tothe piece of identifying so much
with the ideas of perfectionand the perception from others.
That was what was making up myidentity.
And then I had to go through asimilar process, this sort of

(13:02):
dismantling, where everythingthat I had previously identified
as who I am based on what Ithink, jessica, should be
unraveled.
And I sat in that same space ofwho am I without all the things
that I put in place to createan identity, all of these ideas
of who I'm supposed to be.
We can all create verysuccessful lives upon an idea,

(13:24):
and then there's this moment intime when it's kind of like the
universe swoops in and blows itall up.
Yes, and I'm wondering for youin retrospect what you think
that experience of losing all ofit?
What was that there to reallyshow you and teach you, and how
do you feel that that actuallyended up aligning you ultimately

(13:45):
with who you are today, whichis such a deep embodied,
powerful version of yourself?

Yeah, I got chills when you asked that because it
really like I can feel it.
I can feel the resistance I hadto the universe being like no,
no, no, don't let everything end.
I did everything to like holdeverything together.
But when I look back now, evenwhen I got married, I knew that
my former husband was a reallynice guy but he wasn't the right

(14:13):
guy for me.
He was the best that I thoughtthat I could get, given who I
was and given the beliefs I hadabout myself.
And he looked great on paper.
I mean he was, you know, sixfoot two and handsome.

Jessica (14:29):
I mean his name means handsome, like he can ask the
question yes, was that consciousin the moment, like when you
were marrying him?
Was that a conscious awarenessor is it just in retrospect?
You can see that you felt thatway.

You know it was semi-conscious.
Let me say that because I can'tbe like, oh, I knew when I
still walked down the aisle.
It's not that, but it's alsonot that I didn't know at all.
It's like I kind of knew.
I was like, oh, I wish that wehad been more partners
intellectually, and I didn'tfeel that.
But I was like, oh, but he'sgreat, he's the bachelor of the

(15:04):
community, right?
Everyone was trying to hook usup.
So it was like this modelpairing, but I just I knew
semi-consciously it wasn't thebest fit.
But I mean, who's gonnacomplain?
Who's gonna complain?
But to your point, it wasn'taligned truly to my path.
It wasn't aligned to the womanwho I am.

(15:25):
I'm a highly ambitious driven.
You know I care about things.
I'm a total rebel.
It just didn't line up withthat.
It was lining up to like be themodel couple in the community
kind of situation, but it wasvery stifling for me.
And not because he stifled me Iwanna be clear about that but

(15:46):
it was what I took on, is what Ithought I had to do, and
because I allowed that to be thething that made me smaller, the
universe really did come in andsay Shazia, like you are not
living, to who you are, to yourpotential, to your reality, to
your authenticity.
I didn't know those words at thetime, but when things started

(16:07):
unraveling, I felt like I was atthe edge of a cliff.
Like you know, when you'reskidding, you're feet in, like
you're digging your heels in,because you're like no, no, no,
no, no, no, no, don't take meoff the cliff, don't take me off
the cliff.
I felt like that, like I wasabout to like, come off the
cliff and just sink into a blackhole.
That's what I thought.
I thought, if I went off thecliff, the only thing on the
other side was this deep abyssand I would be done.

(16:29):
And the universe was likepushing me and pushing me and
like start off as nudges andwhispers and then finally it
just pushed me off and I feellike the divine pushed me off
the cliff and then I soared LikeI didn't fall into the abyss, I
soared and I did not plan thatat all.
And it's really fascinating thatwhen I got pushed off the cliff

(16:51):
and all of a sudden I'm facinglike who am I?
That question, who am I?
And I chose to align with itand I chose to go all in like,
literally all in, and by all in.
I told people I was working onmyself, esteem.
That was the journey I went on.
I was working on myself, esteem, and that alignment is what

(17:11):
caused me to soar, because we'realways held.
But gosh, if somebody wasstubborn, it was me.
It was me For the universealways knows better.

Melissa (17:23):
I would love for you to talk us through the
discernments that you have now,because it's a tricky line of
this is great, like you weretalking about your ex-husband,
like this is great, I can dothis, like are we talk ourselves
into these things that we thinkare the best choices for us,
versus fully aligned?
So there's like an acceptanceof pretty good, like maybe even

(17:46):
great, but not fully aligned.
So what do you know about thatnow?
And how do you discern?
Cause that's a slippery trapand we get into it over and over
again.
It's not like I figured it outonce I'm done with that lesson.
So how do you discern that now?

You know, melissa, such a good question, because I
don't think I would have doneanything differently.
I don't think that at that time, if I had made a different
choice, of course my life wouldlook different than the
butterfly effect.
But that's part of my journeytoo.
It is so nuanced, becausesometimes something is great and
it's okay to be great, right,good enough is good, and we need

(18:23):
that in our life too at times,rather than chasing after the
notion of something perfect,sometimes I can see women
waiting for Mr Right and I'mlike there is no Mr Right.
There's a book actually calledthe Case for Mr Good Enough, and
I highly recommend it.
It is actually really reallygood and it was a really
eye-opening book, especially,you know, in my later years

(18:46):
after my divorce.
But there is a case for Mr GoodEnough.
But there's also a case forfull alignment.
And if it were so clear, ofcourse we would all just do the
thing.
But life isn't that clear, lifeisn't certain.
It's actually very uncertain.
And I remember somethingprofound I had heard that

(19:06):
changed the way that I looked atthings.
What it was is that our successis directly correlated to our
relationship with uncertainty.
Our success is directly relatedto our relationship with
uncertainty, and so, even tothis question, I don't have
certainty in the answer to thisquestion because it is so

(19:28):
nuanced, and I think the bestthat we can do, if somebody's
like, tell me, give me an answer.
I need to know the formula.

Melissa (19:36):
Shazia.

I know, give me the blueprint.
I'm a former engineer, so I dolike structured thinking, but in
this case it's not structuredand what I will say is that we
can do our best.
We can be honest with ourselves.
I think that's the greatestgift is to be honest with
yourself, and when you createthat deep relationship with

(19:59):
yourself, alignment can comemuch easier because you have
that awareness.
At that time in my life.
I didn't have that consciousnessabout me, but I just kind of
knew, but what I've done itdifferent probably not Going
back to this idea of dismantlingyour identity and how scary
that is.

Jessica (20:17):
we want certainty.
That's part of it.
We want certainty in who we are.
We want certainty in our beliefsystems and our ideas of how
life works.
And part of losing all of thatwhy the question of who I am is
so scary is because all of asudden, you don't know your
place in the universe anymore.
You very vulnerably sharedabout you in that car.

(20:41):
You know.
Just make this all go away.
How were you able to go fromthis is happening to me to this
is happening for me?
Like, how were you able to turnthat around and say I then
soared Cause there's so manypeople going through this right
now?
I know for myself that it isstill a journey for me, learning

(21:05):
to let go and not be a victimto what happened.
So how were you able to makethat shift?

Yeah, I mean you already said the word let go, so
that is going to be in myanswer.
It really happened in thismoment.
I remember I was on theacupuncture table, so all these
needles are in me and she leavesme in the room and it's like
the one time I can't do anything.
I'm such a doer, right, but I'mjust lying there with needles
in me so I can't do anything.
This was right in the midst ofeverything happening and as I

(21:34):
was lying there and I'm just instillness, I could feel like my
exhaustion, my exhaustion andtrying trying to make this
facade like stay, like just if Icould just keep all the pieces
together, if I just did this orif I just did that.
I tried so many things to keepthe marriage together, to keep

(21:54):
my life together and not haveanyone know.
None of this is real.
So I'm lying there on the tableand I just I had this
conversation with the divine,with God, and I just said, look,
I can't do this anymore.
Okay, I cannot do this and I'mgoing to give it back to you.
I am giving it all to youbecause I cannot do this and I

(22:17):
genuinely, for me, gave it.
And what I mean by gave it isthat I let go right, because I
was taking the burden, I wastaking the responsibility as
though I was responsible, asthough I was the one whose hand
was facilitating everything.
And clearly it wasn't workingbecause it was never my hand
that was facilitating anything.

(22:38):
Things happen in divineperfection.
And in that moment, when I saidI give it back to you, just take
it.
It was what I needed to finallylet go, to finally understand
that there was nothing I coulddo like do like actually
physically do to change things.

(22:59):
And it was time to let go andsurrender.
I would not have used that wordat the time, but what I'm
describing is surrender.
That energetic shift justallowed me to pause, to stop, to
not freak out about time, like,oh my God, what's gonna happen?
And everything felt so timedependent, everything felt so

(23:20):
urgent.
And all of a sudden it was likethat exhale, that deep exhale,
and that set things in motionbecause I finally let go.
So, again back on the cliff, Ifinally stopped digging my heels
, I finally stopped sayingplease don't let me fall off
this cliff, and I just said I'mgonna let go, I'm standing here,

(23:41):
I am open, I receive Again.
I'm sounding very wise rightnow.
Those are none of the words Iwould have used at the time, but
by simply giving it back,that's what was happening.
Is that I wasn't exertinganymore.

Melissa (23:58):
I'm hearing a lot of these like feminine, masculine
themes and obviously you're thisis probably not even gonna do
it justice but like into thefeminine, you're teaching about
the feminine.
You have a podcast femininefulfilled.
It's a big part of who you are,your story, and I'm hearing
this like you didn't necessarilysay busyness, but I'm hearing
this like doing this, pushingthis, forcing this, controlling

(24:20):
what I would put in a box oflike the toxic masculine way of
being that we're trained to be,and then finding a moment of
stillness.
And in that moment of stillnessand I always had been adorning
to arrive there it wasn't justlike I finally sat down and then
poof, you know, it's likegetting to the point where you
were still and you allowedyourself to be open to surrender

(24:41):
even though he didn't havethese words and to receive which
I would put in more of thefeminine energy if we want to
categorize these things and how.
that was the thing.
What is the way in which yourelate to the balance of these,
this feminine and the masculine,and this receiving versus doing
, and the controlling versusallowing?
How does that play out in yourlife today and, I guess, what's

(25:02):
been the journey of that sinceyou started to practice this in
that moment on the acupuncturetable?

Yeah, you know, I really believe in pendulum
swings.
Actually, I really believe ingoing from one extreme to the
next, and I think it's a reallyinteresting way to do things.
I do this with my clients too.
So I love that you brought tothe masculine feminine, because
that helps me too.
To describe it even better isthat I was hyper masculine.
I was trying so hard and I hadmy eye on the prize, which I

(25:28):
thought was this one outcome,and at that time, this one
outcome was keep it together.
So you look good for thecommunity, right, that was my
target that I was trying to hit,but the truth is that was never
the target.
I just didn't know that Ididn't have the capacity to see
things in a bigger way and thatthere was so much more that was
waiting for me.
So when I gave it in thatmoment and it sounds kind of

(25:50):
like airy fairy, of like then Igave it and then everything just
worked out.
What I will say from thefeminine perspective is I did
swing the pendulum.
I all of a sudden stopped doingeverything I'd been doing.
I stopped trying.
I literally stopped trying.
I stopped working so hard.
I stopped being like well,that's the target.
I'm like something's off here.
Whatever I'm doing is notworking, and so when we swing

(26:13):
the pendulum all the way to theother side, we start doing
things or stop doing things inthe way that we've always done
it, and we go to the oppositeextreme.
That's where we'll find balance.
I always think about, you know,a pendulum.
When you swing it, it willultimately always come back to
balance.
But if you've been hyperextended on one side for so long

(26:34):
in your life and for many womenit's actually in the masculine
okay, because we live in amasculine driven society.
It's what we attribute tosuccess.
When we're hyper extended inthat way for so long, the only
way to come back to balance isnot some like nice, feel good
kind of thing.
It is literally to drop thatpendulum so it can swing to the

(26:57):
other side, and that's sometimeswhy it feels like a spiritual
storm.
Oftentimes, when our life needsto change, it's because we're
not willing to let go, and theuniverse is like well, if you're
not gonna let go, you're likegetting in your own way and it
will swing you.
So for somebody who wantsactionable things to do, do

(27:19):
literally the opposite of whatyou've done.
So for me, I just stoppedtrying.
I stopped reading all the books, I stopped trying to do all the
things.
I changed even the way I lookedat things.
That was the action I needed.
So when I think about my balancetoday, I'm coming back more
into my masculine in some ways.
I went to the feminine for avery long time and it's very

(27:39):
much my essence too.
I know I'm in this world to bea part of the feminine rising.
But I'm starting to actuallybring back my masculine a bit
and seeing that, okay, I need tobring back some of my
engineering brain and get backinto some structure and back out
into the world and show up,have a goal and meet the goal.
And I love that because I feelthat I can balance the two.

(28:01):
Now I can see where I startgetting too masculine and then
it's like, okay, we'll come backinto flow.
And then I'm getting a littletoo flowy and just like floating
in the river.
And then it's like, okay, butShazia, like where are we going?
So everybody's balance isdifferent, but to find your own,
I think that pendulum swing isvery, very important.

(28:22):
You have to almost do theopposite of what you've been
doing up until now to see thingschange.

Melissa (28:28):
Don't you feel like we just got a global pendulum swing
with COVID, though I feel likeit was like the whole globe was
going in one direction.
Covid came, won the pendulumthe whole other way and now
we're like, ugh, no, but we'restill in the oh my gosh, we're
like nauseous.

We're nauseous right now Over square.

Melissa (28:45):
It was like a global pendulum swing.
As you were talking, I was likeI was finding the feminine at
the same exact time and Iliterally had a coach say to me
like you need to do nothing for30 days.
She's like you need to clearyour calendar, you need to stop
being so productive, you need tochill out for 30 days.
And I was like what a deathsentence.
You're a nasty woman, why wouldyou tell me to do that?

(29:05):
And then the next week, covidshutdown happened and I was like
, well, thank God, the wholeworld's doing it, because I
couldn't even fathom doing thisfor 30 days voluntarily.
And so, as you were speaking, Iwas just feeling that of not to
make light of COVID, but justthis pendulum swing of like now
you're all going to be home,I've got nothing to do.
Yeah, and try to be productivenow.

(29:26):
So it was just feeling the likeglobal shifts that are
happening in the masculinefeminine right now.

Yeah, and notice the resistance we had globally
too.
I mean, of course, the pandemicwas very devastating for the
people who passed away and gotsick and so many more people
their lives change in a positiveway.
Actually getting that slow down, getting the opportunity to see
that you don't have to operatefrom this paradigm of work, work

(29:55):
, work, go, go go.
And yet there was stillresistance in that, but secretly
, because people were havingside conversations and private
conversations.
People were happy to be at homeand now more people are talking
about it.
People liked it, but youcouldn't like it in the moment
either.
Like, just notice our humannature to resist the thing in

(30:16):
front of us.
When we're in the hustle andeverything is go, go, go, we're
like, oh, I just want to break.
And then the break comes andit's like, oh, but this sucks
too, and it's like you know whatwe really.
We really get to be betterabout being like universe you
know what you're doing.

Melissa (30:32):
Yeah, we're hard to please here, very hard to please
.

Jessica (30:36):
I would like to get into the nitty gritty of this a
little bit more, because I thinkbreaking the habit of being
yourself is actually really,really hard to do.

Melissa (30:47):
I mean, you spend 30 years being and a book title.

Jessica (30:50):
I am the book title.
But you spend 30 years beingone way and then this huge force
enters your life and dismantlesall of it.
So you are to some degreeforced to confront yourself and
look at your beliefs in the waythat you've been living up until
that point.
But you said that you wereworking on your self-esteem and
you also acknowledged that whenyou got married, you had this

(31:12):
feeling of I'm doing thisbecause this is the best that I
think that I can get, andactually shifting those beliefs
and coming into a deeper senseof self-worth, a more embodied
self that I now see you livingfor a lot of people.
That's a big jump, Even ifyou're surrendering, how do you
actually take that next step,Like what are the actionable

(31:34):
steps or the things that youstarted to implement in your
life at that time?
That said, I am going to showup for myself differently.

OK, so I do have something so actionable that I
did, because, yes, I also haveto take action and I also love
spreadsheets.

Melissa (31:50):
So I hope that goes Great.
You know that in the first 30seconds of this entire podcast,
jeff is like I have to tell asecret about Melissa and I'm
like, oh God, what is she goingto say?
And she's like she lovesspreadsheets, you do.
So, shazia, we can have a wholeother podcast just about our

(32:10):
love for spreadsheets I loveorganization and systems and
documentation and things flowing.
And I love spreadsheets Probablynot to the level you do as an
engineer, but I would love totalk about that later with you
over with a hot, steamyspreadsheet conversation with
you.

Oh, please, and if we can talk, about tips and
tricks to make it even moreefficient.
Oh, I love it.
I follow it.
I don't remember the handle,but this is Instagram handle.
We're literally.
They just show tips on Excel,and I love every single one.

Jessica (32:45):
Every single one, and I don't use spreadsheets at all
in my life anymore, but I stilllove spreadsheet.

This is your porn.

Melissa (32:51):
This is it, oh my God.
Spreadsheet porn.
It comes up again on thispodcast.
Could you just put a formula incell A7 for me real quick.

I mean, I love using concatenate in Excel in
Google Docs.
Oh my God, I don't even knowthat word Concatenate it's when
you can take two columns and itwould be like Melissa Boknight,
Like you would be in column Aand column B and Jessica Rose
would be in column A and columnB and then you would do in the
column C concatenate, and itwould put your full name in the

(33:24):
one cell.

Melissa (33:26):
Isn't that amazing, my brain just, I just hit off your
faces are so bored, I justthought that it was going to be
way cooler than where you wentwith that.
And then get ready everybody.
They come together and I waslike, is that what we're doing?
Concatenate, how to makesomebody fall asleep on a
podcast.
I lose everybody.

(33:48):
Everyone's done.
We lost all of our viewers.
My gosh, how do we come backfrom this?
Oh, my God, I don't even knowwhat we were talking about.
Oh, action, full steps, actionfull steps.
You're concatenating, so what I?

did is I went, jess is dying over there.
Jess is like.
I don't even know what the Fyou're talking about.

Melissa (34:08):
She's like this shit's falling off the rails.

Ok, oh God, I'm so happy Go home and I create this
dreams list.
I'd read about it somewhere andso I was like oh, let me make
this dreams list in aspreadsheet.
So I went home and I literallycreated a Google Doc and I was
like I'm just gonna write my 100dreams and I couldn't think of

(34:31):
100, so I thought of 10.
So I wrote down the dream andthen I put checkboxes and other
columns like literally inprogress, complete, no, like
detail.

Melissa (34:42):
I mean, did you color code it?
So I did it was so geeky yes.
Yes, scott, I love this so much.
I would do this, Just so youdon't fail alone.
I would do this.
I would do this.
I would do this now, like today.
I would do this, I would colorcode it.
Well, I actually have thetemplate as a gift.

Spoiler alert, but it's not in a spreadsheet.
I made it really pretty and youknow I'll share about that
later, but anyhow I'm happy togive that away.
But my version was this reallyboring spreadsheet but I wrote
things in there and what wasinteresting is I wrote some
things in that list that werereally easy, like buy chocolate
chip dunkers from Trader Joe,like that's an easy win, right?

(35:24):
That wasn't my dream list.

Melissa (35:26):
That's great.
I mean I get our desires comein all like all levels.

Jessica (35:33):
I mean, what's wonderful about that is it shows
you that you can start reallysmall yeah.

Melissa (35:40):
Start with your favorite Trader Joe's item,
because everyone has one.

Jessica (35:43):
Everyone has one Really achievable, really
believable, yes.

Melissa (35:48):
This is how you become a millionaire.
Everybody take note.
You start with your favoriteTrader Joe's item and you put it
in a color coded spreadsheetand then you can catnate that
shit in your real life.
That's how you do it.
Did I use that correctly?

in a sentence.
No, but it's okay.
I just like the fact that youuse the word.
Also, we need another episodeon money, because I am a
millionaire.

Melissa (36:07):
I wanted this episode to be a millionaire.

Jessica (36:09):
We're going to talk about it.
We're going to get there.

Melissa (36:11):
Okay, we're going to segue to it really efficiently,
since you love efficiency.

So let me just finish this real quick.
So, yeah, something reallysmall and achievable.
But another one I put in thereis that I want and this was
while I was in the marriage thatwas falling apart I put a dream
that I want to be in a marriagewhere my husband loves and
respects me, and that feltimpossible.
So, anyhow, I filled out thisdream list.

(36:38):
You can see how broad thedreams were, and then I will
keep adding.
Right, I will keep adding.
And then it became somethingfun, and then I'd be like
checking off oh, I did that.
I started that.
I took this class, I wenttrapeze flying, I took a class
and trapeze flying I starteddoing things that were actually
things I wanted to do, not thethings I've just been doing.

(36:59):
So it was taking a new look atmy life from this lens of.
Here are my dreams.
I mean, my life is fallingapart.
It's awful right now.
Well, if everything's fallingapart, what would I do if I
start again?
So that's where that was bornfrom that spreadsheet.
That's great.
I love it.

Jessica (37:19):
I know we want to get some money, but you just said
something that I just don't wantto skip over is that you wrote
down that you wanted a man wholoved and respected you.
But you didn't think that youcould have that at that time.
But very quickly you didmanifest that you did find him.
So what was that?
Can you talk us through thatprocess?

Did you have to do some inner work there, or was
that just going through the listyou know it's interesting
because everything I've done issuch a combination between
throwing everything at the thingand then just really trusting
it.
Really.
It's this level of faith that'sso big.
So I will say that between thestart of 2013 and the end of

(38:00):
2015, we're talking about liketwo to three year time period I
was married, got divorced, wassingle and then got married
again.
So a lot happened very, veryquickly and when I look back, I
did throw everything at it.
I created my first ever visionboard.
I started doing all the thingson my dreams list.

(38:21):
I was just so aligned I wasmagnetizing because I was so
aligned to who I am that evenwhen I talked to my husband now
and I'm like what did you loveabout me?
And I want to hear like, oh,your beautiful personality and
smile.
He's like I loved your energy.
That's what I fell in love with.

Melissa (38:40):
I love that compliment no but you know saying you have
a hot ass is also nice too.
Yeah, but he can love yourenergy and your ass.
They're not mutually exclusive.
Maybe your ass's energy was onpoint, I don't know it was.
I mean, all of me was.

Jessica (38:58):
Are you saying that your feeling of worthiness and
deservedness came as a byproductof you starting to take all
these actions that aligned withwho you were?
Did that build your self-esteem, or was there a deeper,
limiting belief that you feltthat you had to move out of the
way?

No, it was that.
It was the worthiness piece forsure.
It was being worthy enough toeven ask for the things I wanted
to really ask and to believethat they could happen.
That, I think, was the biggestjourney, along with aligning
with who I was, because once Istarted exploring like, who am I
?
It's not like I became adifferent person, it's just that

(39:34):
I came back to who I always was.
Yeah, I was in a capitalistform.
That's what needed to happen,so it's not like I had to become
this whole different person formy life to look amazing.
It's that I had to becomeexactly who I am in the biggest
way for then everything just tomagnetize.
I mean, it is so the truth.
So if there's anything that'sholding you back right now or

(39:58):
you're not allowing yourself tobe, whatever that is, and it has
to be all the things.
It can't just be the prettytoxic positivity things, okay,
it can't just be all the things.
Something about me is like I'mvery passionate and I can get
really angry, but I don't judgethat that anger can bring four
things that then turn intosomething.

(40:19):
But if I'm trying to be like,oh, but I'm just really nice and
I just always think so nicelyabout everything and everyone, I
mean that's BS.
Yeah, there are things that makeme really angry, there are
levels of consciousness that areheavier, but those are the
things that can slingshot you.
If you allow yourself to gointo the place of like, why does
my life sucks so bad?

(40:39):
It's okay to be there too.
It's okay to allow yourself togo into the depths of the heavy
feelings and then use that toslingshot you to those higher
levels of consciousness, becausenow you understand, now you can
say, oh, this thing is makingme so angry, because actually
this is a waste of my time.

(41:00):
I don't want to do this thing Ikeep spending energy on, or
this thing I'm really sad aboutoh my gosh, this really hurts me
and giving yourself that space.
So, again, everything that I'mtalking about is like this
wholeness of who you are,accepting all of that.
There's no place you need to be, there's no fixing of you.

(41:21):
It is truly embodying all ofyou and allowing it and having a
good time in it too.
I don't think anything I'vetalked about in terms of my
journey has been miserable.
Part of my journey was when Iwas resisting.
When I wasn't resisting is whenI could have fun and be
expansive.
It also doesn't have to be sohard.

(41:41):
The peace around.

Jessica (41:43):
The dismantling that the two of us have lived through
, of all of these pieces of ourlives falling away, is that,
when you look back, they're theinauthentic pieces.
We talked about being honestwith ourselves.
If we're not actually beingfully honest with ourselves,
something comes and shakes usawake.
Once you let go of the ideas ofwho you're supposed to be, you

(42:03):
do live in that space of I don'tknow anything, but really you
don't need to, because who youare just is.
You just come back to youressence.
And when you actually startcreating from your essence which
sounds like what you were doingeverything does come in and
start reflecting your deeperdesires, sometimes the desires

(42:25):
you didn't even realize you evenhad.

Melissa (42:28):
Like your Trader Joe's chocolate pieces.
Yeah.

I have to share this one thing.
It's coming through so strongly.
You get to shift a belief tooand I know this is going to land
with the woman who needs tohear this.
You get to shift the beliefthat your life has to be sad or
hard or bad.
You get to truly believe thatyour life gets to be good.
I don't think enough of usactually believe that.

(42:54):
We've been conditioned andsocialized to think it can't be
To give yourself that permissionand that space to say me as I
am, I am worthy, I am deservingof things to be good, because we
actually most of us ourhomeostasis or our balance is
actually in trauma or sadness,like constant sadness or

(43:19):
hardness.
It's actually the homeostasisthat we typically are in.
So, doing the things, theenergetic work to say okay, if I
allow myself to stand inworthiness, my beingness is
enough and I am worthy of a goodlife, I get to have that and
learning to hold the energy ofthat that piece is really

(43:41):
crucial.

Melissa (43:42):
Yeah, it is, and I think also that can be where the
anger kicks in, because what Ihave found in myself, and
actually pretty much every womanthat I have coached, is there
is like a piece in there whereanger gets to come along in the
journey.
It's invited in, it's invitedalong.
So if I have been sad or ifI've been tolerating this life
that's like kind of bullshit,honestly and if I have been

(44:06):
mistreated or if I have beenaccepting less than and now I'm
starting to believe that lifegets to be good I deserve more
than this.
Pissed, I am pissed and I likeone of my biggest
transformations.
It was like a year ago because Iwas doing the somatic movement
and I was starting to sit withmy anger and I was like who I

(44:27):
used to think anger was wrongand bad and an unnecessary
emotion that I'm not supposed tofeel it and I started screaming
in my car and screaming in thepillows and saying messy things
to my husband, not like all thetime, but like saying the things
that I was scared to say foryears and years and years and
years and years, because I letmyself be so fucking angry.
And I think women are angry asa whole and I think we have

(44:50):
every right to be and I thinkthat becomes a part of the
equation of I actually deservesomething more.
It's like a necessary piece toget angry.
Yes, pause.

Jessica (45:00):
I think it's a step into worthiness.
I think it's an important stagethat you have to enter into.

Melissa (45:08):
I think it's scary, because you're like is it gonna
eat me alive?
Is it gonna take me over?
Am I gonna destroy my life?
Am I gonna say all these thingsI can't take back?
What's it gonna do?
If I let it in, it's like well,it's probably gonna give you a
beautiful life.
Yeah, if you know how to moveit.

It will today in the United States.
Let me just say that it isstill unsafe.
It is still unsafe in anotherpart of history and many parts
of the world to be fullyexpressed, and so I acknowledge
the privilege I had.
Thank you for saying that, to beable to do that, and, yes, this
privilege allows for thisfullness and wholeness.

(45:44):
It is, for sure, the wayforward, and I don't take that
lightly.
Now I'm like, well, I am herein this time and place for a
reason, so I can have that, sothen I can show others.
So sometimes you're the kind ofperson who does things outside
of yourself Like you.
Being yourself is the mostimportant thing that you can do
in this world, because there areso many women who cannot and

(46:05):
could not.
You don't even have to look foroutside of yourself.
You can look at your own mother, your own lineage to see that.
You know what.
It wasn't that long ago that awoman who expressed her anger,
she was put into a mentalinstitution.
She was told that she was crazy.
It is scary.
We have been conditioned to begood girls To keep the peace,

(46:29):
but that is what has caused usto be so caged, and that's
what's causing the anger is thatwe are not meant to be caged,
we are not meant to be stifled.
So for those of us who can bein this place where it is safe
to do it, lean into that,because it will ripple out to

(46:49):
others.

Melissa (46:50):
And yeah, yeah, my whole body is just like I want
to like ah.
But thank you for presencingthat too, because it's like we
are so fortunate and it is ourjob, like we have the ability to
use our voices.
We have the ability to besupported in that we have the

(47:11):
ability to link arms with otherwomen who are doing it.
Oftentimes we have partnerships.
I know this is not the caseacross the board, but for those
of us that have partnershipsthat can handle that like it's
our job, I think it's my job tobe able to use my privilege is a
force of good in the world andto use it to lift others up and
to use it to find my voice andfind ways to express these

(47:31):
things that are not harmful andthat can invite other women into
the conversation, and men.
Honestly, this is not just aconversation for women, but
we're so lucky.

Jessica (47:41):
Yeah, we're so lucky.
I know that we're very short ontime, but I would love to take
that as a segue to talk aboutmoney for a second, and one
thing that I love abouteverything that you are sharing
today is that there's so muchpermission that you're giving to
be all of yourself, like all ofthe different parts of yourself

(48:01):
, and there are a lot of womenstruggling with feeling worthy
around money, to feel like it'sOK to have money, and this is
something that you're an expertin.
So I am wondering if you canmaybe offer some insight to
those listening who might be inthat place of struggling in

(48:24):
their deservedness, maybe areframe or something that you've
learned.

Yeah, I love where this conversation has gone
because it's just brought out mypassion really lies in women's
power, right, and wealth is apart of that.
So, as we were just sharing, Imean until today, even my
family's Indian my dad came tothe US in the mid-70s and I was
born and raised here but veryconnected to the Indian culture

(48:51):
and I know that there are womenwho live in villages, who can't
even go to school, who can'teven get an education, and I'm
over here living this superprivileged life and sometimes I
feel guilt about that.
Sometimes I feel like who am Ito be here and somebody else is
over there and they don't get tohave that.

(49:13):
We all can look at our owncircle, our own family, to see
where we came from, and wealthis a part of this conversation.
It wasn't until literally the70s that women could own a
credit card in the United States.

Jessica (49:29):
That's insane.

Yeah, this is a fact.
Ok, like that is insanity.
That is absolute insanity.

Melissa (49:37):
It's insanity.

So I am so passionate about women being
wealthy because women give back.
We're known that once we havewealth, we share it.
We're community oriented and itis more important than ever
that we have money.
So, even if you don't thinkthat you're deserving, if it
moves you because you believesomebody else is deserving, then
make the money to help somebodyelse.

(49:58):
Start there.
There's nothing wrong with that.
Now the deeper level, of course, is like hey, you get to also
have money.
You get to have that.
You get to have the ease, theconditioning of things having to
be hard.
It's conditioning, it's notreality.
And when we start to step intothe wealth, it feels really good

(50:18):
, it does feel good.
Let's not buy into this wholelike oh, just be do-gooders.
Pay attention also to the mostfemale-dominated fields, like
nursing and education.
These are the two lowest payingfields, hardest working.
The amount of work is notcommensurate to the pay at all.

(50:39):
But what's the driving force ineducation and nursing Is oh,
but look, you're caring aboutsomebody, you're taking care.
You don't need money for that.
How's to the?
Yeah, you need money for that.
Yes, yes, you do.
So I often think I will tellyou something very actionable I
do when it comes to thinkingabout wealth, and I'm looking

(51:01):
forward to the time that youknow, of course I ascend from
this thinking, but for now itworks.
But I always like to think oh,what a white man do.
Well, what a white man do.
In any situation where I'mfeeling a little bit smaller,
I'm like well, what a white mando, and that's what I do.

Melissa (51:18):
It's like the new bracelet.
Instead of like what would WWJD, it's like WWWMD.
Those are our bracelets thatwe're going to get.
Somebody once said like havethe confidence of a mediocre
white man and I was like, oh mygod.

Jessica (51:32):
I ask about that, though, because you also teach
so much about being in thefeminine and so much of the talk
around that is that we can doit in a new way.
Maybe just expand on that alittle bit.
That is the only way to makemoney to deep into what men do.

Melissa (51:46):
Well, white men specifically, yes, white, men
specifically.

Let's be specific you know, from the feminine.
this is an important piece too.
So there are things to do whenit comes to wealth, about going
after it right, negotiate forbetter pay.
There are things that arereally important.
There's a woman her name's thefinancial feminist, tori Dunlap,
so she talks a lot about thetactical.
I would highly recommend givingher a follow.

(52:10):
But from the feminine side,there gets to be this trust that
money is flowing to you so youcan do, do, do, do, do.
But the same paradigm comes in,where at some point you also
have to let go and understandthat what is meant for you will

(52:30):
come to you.
So, in that way, what is meantfor you will come to you.
You don't want to block it bybelieving you're not worthy of
it, because that's a block too.
So putting your arms out andsaying I receive right and
imagining abundance falling intoyour hands is a beautiful
feminine way to say I'm ready toreceive and your physicality

(52:54):
shows it right.
So it is important to step intothat place and, at the same time
, also not get so worked up whenthings are not necessarily
going your way, because what ismeant for you will come to you.
I don't want to spend too muchtime on that because I think
we're already hard enough onourselves.
So I don't want to spend timeon that piece.

(53:16):
But the other piece about beingopen, being curious oh, there's
a great book, it's calledSecrets of the Millionaire Mind
by T Harf Ecker.

Melissa (53:27):
I just downloaded it.
I saw that on your thing and Ijust downloaded it.
I think my spiritual mentorsare talking about that.
Anyway, go on, I'm so pumped soI literally, just like last
week, got it in my queue.

Yes, it's such a good one, and then we should all
be millionaires.
By Rachel Rogers, that's a goodone too.
So anything that's starting totalk about the money mindset,
these are some great starts.
But when I think about thefeminine, what I've had to do is
like expand my receiving muscle, because that is the feminine

(53:58):
to receive and just be like Iinvite in more.
I invite in more.
Money can come from anywhere.
There's so many ways to makemoney.
I get to be wealthy, I get tohave money, I get to be rich.
And the last thing I'll saywith this, too, is getting
really clear on what it is thatwealth is to me, because it's

(54:20):
not always just money, and thencreating the space for that too.
For me it's freedom.
For somebody else it might be arelationship, but wealth is so
many things and, again, allowingyourself to receive that.

Jessica (54:32):
Can you share what your money mindset was before
and what it is now?
That's your relationship to it.

Okay.
So again, I grew up in anIndian family.
I don't know if you know this,but Indians are really cheap, I
can say that because they are.
So culture there's a bigemphasis on education, making
good money, saving your money,and then you get to live a good
life later, later, later.
That's what I grew up in, andeverything is about how much

(55:02):
does it cost.
So that's how I thought.
For a long time I didn't spendon myself.
I mean, my dad wouldn't evenlet us order drinks at McDonald
because he was like this is awaste.
And do you know that they'remaking 90% profit on this and it
only costs them five cents?
I mean now being able to buysparkling water at the

(55:22):
restaurant, because I don'tactually drink soda or juices or
anything.
I don't drink alcohol either,so I buy sparkling water and
that is such a luxury right.
So just to show the change.
But the money mindset really wasso much about save, accumulate,
save, accumulate and one day Ican enjoy, and that was so

(55:43):
exhausting.
Mm-hmm.
What changed and I'll tell youthrough a story is that my
friend came over one day.
She was a Feng Shui expert andshe comes over to my house and
she's like Shazia, your house isbeautiful, okay.
So she's walking through andshe's like everything's gorgeous
.
And then we get to my bedroomand she's like why does it look

(56:03):
like a bachelor pad in here?
It was a bed, this ugly olivegreen comforter and a box as a
nightstand, white walls, andthat was it.
Now we just came from thisbeautiful decorated with
crystals living room and diningroom and all the thing, and I
realized I was doing the show.
So everything that people wouldsee was beautiful.

(56:24):
That was love for you.
But what was it for me?
It represented my money mindset, my mindset about myself, and
so I did a makeover and I mademy room beautiful, beautiful.
I painted the walls Palladianblue by Benjamin Moore, which
was a very watery blue.
I bought this beautifulrestoration hardware tufted

(56:46):
linen bed and I got thisbeautiful wood carved piece from
Z Gallery and I put in thesegorgeous sconces with hanging
crystals of cores and it justbecame this beautiful place to
go into.
And that was the shift I made,is that I started treating
myself as worthy, and this allcoincided with the journey I've

(57:10):
been talking about todayAllowing myself not just to do
the fun things and find myself,but also to spoil myself, to
spend on myself and to enjoy thethings.
Why was I waiting?
If we wait today, we'll bewaiting forever, because we'll
never know the energy of what itfeels like to be wealthy, and

(57:33):
so that was the shift in mindsetthat really happened, and
that's what I continue to do.
I continue to invest in thingsthat fill me up and set up the
things to make sure that I'minvested in all of that.
Those are important things, butalso, for me, knowing that
spending on myself is the bestinvestment I can make.

Jessica (57:54):
Even if that's just cookies from Trader Joe's.

Melissa (57:58):
Full circle, full circle, my friends.
But, it's true, because itdoesn't have to be.
I think people get caught up inlike I actually can't afford it
, right, if people don't reallyhave the money.
We're not trying to get you togo into debt, but like doing
something for yourself doesn'thave to even be expensive.
Right, it's a symbolic act of Iam worthy of treating myself to

(58:18):
this thing or this experienceor whatever it is, because what
feels luxurious to somebodymight feel basic to somebody
else or might feel likeextravagant to somebody else.
I remember when I started to domy color work.
It was like back when I firstmet you, shazia, I literally
replaced almost my entire closetand I had not been buying
things for myself at all and Iwould hide them.

(58:39):
This is 2020, I would orderonline and I would like sneak
them upstairs.
So my husband didn't see thembecause, like he can't know I'm
buying things for myself Notthat he cared at all, but I
would hide it.
And then I'd like try it on andI'd be like, oh my God, I love
it.
And then I would like hide itsomewhere in my closet and be
like, hopefully he doesn'tnotice there's things that I'm
adding to this, like I don'twant him to know that I'm
starting to spend money onmyself, like I was starting to

(59:00):
like closetly, give a lot ofshits about myself.
But I didn't want him to be madat me Not that he would have
been, but that was the story of.
I can't believe I'm spendingmoney on myself.
Who am I Like?
I'm so greedy and selfish.
It was such a journey, so Ilove that you brought that up,
because it's like do somethingthat feels out of your comfort

(59:20):
zone.
You don't need to drop, like 10Gs on a wardrobe, but figure
out a way that you cansymbolically claim I get to take
up the space for me, yes, yes.

And you know there's a secret too, because it
was hard for me to spend.
When I talk about the bedroom,I actually set a budget for
myself because I didn't justhave all the money.
I was going through divorce.
The bed I told you about Iended up finding it for half off
at the outlet.
I wouldn't have even known tolike look for it, you know.
So there is a feminine and Icall it feminine because I think

(59:53):
it's feminine there's afeminine secret that when you
start buying the things or doingthe things that are so lined up
with what you deeply desire,the universe truly will do
everything to make it happen foryou.
The secret in life isn't thatyou need a Trigelian dollars to
do the things you want and livethe life you want.

(01:00:13):
The secret is you start withwhat you want and you trust that
the universe will provide itwill fill that in.
And every time I have investedin something that I really want,
the money will show up.
Maybe it's a tax return or Ifind a discount, I don't know.
Something just happens.
I don't know how to explain itanymore, but this is where

(01:00:35):
there's that trust piece.
It can all work, so it can bebig, small, it can be whatever,
but it's waiting for you to justdecide.
You don't have to be small.
Take a bowl of ice it's fivetimes.

Jessica (01:00:45):
And one thing that I'm taking from this conversation
and you can correct me if I'mmisunderstanding, but a lot of
the things that you've shared,it sounds like taking
micro-actions or even bigactions before you actually
think or feel that you're ready.
It's like who do you wanna beand what are you dreaming of?
And even if you still have thatfeeling of unworthiness

(01:01:08):
somewhere, a lot of us try tofix ourselves before we think
that those things can be createdin our reality.
But what if you actually justtook one small step that might
feel really uncomfortable todaytowards the life that you want
and see what happens?
And then when you actually getthat feedback from the world
around you, it then starts tochange the way that you think

(01:01:29):
and feel about who you are.
Does that make sense?

Shazia Imam (01:01:32):
Yeah, yes, can you do my marketing, jess?
Yes, like you encapsulated thatbeautifully.

Melissa (01:01:40):
Yes, jess's brain just like wraps a beautiful,
luxurious bow around everythingand is like this is what just
happened.

Succinctly, we're always like I'm gonna tell you
another story, and Jess is likeyou take micro actions before
you're ready, like you'recorrect.

Melissa (01:01:57):
The end and you put it in a color coded spreadsheet
Goodbye.

Jessica (01:02:03):
I think I have an obsession with cracking the code
.
I do and I think I really,really I wanna crack the code.
I wanna understand and I don'tthink there's one way
necessarily.
But I love understanding,especially when I look at
someone like you who went from asimilar scenario that I found
myself in and turned it aroundso dramatically.

(01:02:24):
You're so beautifully embodiedin who you are.
You're doing such powerful workand bringing so much love to
the world.
So I look at where you camefrom and I look at where you are
and I'm like, well, I want hersecrets.
It's something that she's doingWell.

Thank you, Jess, and I will share the secrets.
As I mentioned earlier, I havethe gift of my 100 Dreams List
Template, not in spreadsheetform, beautiful form for you,
with still some check boxes butno Excel required, and I'd love
to share that because that isreally the secret.
Like you said, the micro actions, and it's a chance for you to
write those dreams down.

(01:03:01):
I'd love for you to have that.
It's at thelifeengineercomslash dreams.
It's exactly the template Italked about today, and just
starting with those cookies thatyou love or ice cream that you
love, starting to really enjoyand follow your desires, really
is the secret, and taking thosemicro actions, it's the secrets.

Melissa (01:03:21):
Yeah, it's.
If there's a secret, that's thesecret it really is.
It's like do the things youlove.
Wow, mm-hmm, yeah, really Didyou get it.
It's that simple, it sure is.
Well, I have so loved to spendthis time with you and have a
little bit of a giggle fest withyou, and I've missed you.

(01:03:42):
This has made me realize I'vemissed you.
I'm like, how do I have moreshawzi in my life?
So, thank you for being here,for sharing your juiciness.
We're gonna have season two,congratulations, thanks.
So we'll have you back for likea full on money, money, mouse
career session.

Yeah, I'd love to talk to you about wealth
languages.
Yeah, I think that's very juicy, but we need more time.

Melissa (01:04:04):
Yeah, wa-wa, I would love.
It All right, thank you foryour generosity and your
vulnerability.

Thank you for having me.

Jessica (01:04:09):
So good to see you.
Hey there, Rebels.
If you enjoy this podcast, wewould love your support in a few
quick ways.
You could like follow orsubscribe on your preferred
platform to help others discoverus too.
You could also leave us areview.

(01:04:31):
We also have a Facebook groupand you can find us at
facebookcom slash groups, slashinter Rebel podcast, and you can
find us on Instagram at interRebel podcast.
Your support means everything tous and we can't wait to
continue this journey together.

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Shazia Imam: From Rock Bottom to Sky High — How Adversity Fuels Radical Self-Discovery

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Shazia Imam: From Rock Bottom to Sky High — How Adversity Fuels Radical Self-Discovery