July 2, 2025 • 54 mins
Shazia Imam is back, and we’re going deep—again. Our first recurring guest brings her signature joy, wisdom, and grounded truth-telling to this long-overdue conversation about money. We explore the emotional reality behind wealth, the power of honesty in transforming financial shame, and why your nervous system might be the most important player in your bank account. From spreadsheet jokes to perimenopause truths, this episode is equal parts practical, hilarious, and healing. If money feels like the last frontier in your personal growth, this one is for you.
Topics:
- Money wounds and emotional spending
- Visibility, shame, and wealth
- Nervous system regulation around money
- Earning from ease vs. overdrive
- Identity shifts as income grows
- Scarcity mindset vs. overflow
- Spiritual bypassing around finances
- Humor + honesty in money healing
If you loved today’s episode, please leave a review and share your favorite takeaways by screenshotting this episode and tagging us on Instagram! We also have a free virtual monthly community call on the 3rd Thursday of every month, join here!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_02 (00:02):
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage, what looks like courage
to other people.
For me, it feels like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by passion,
by integrity, then I really dothink that I know who I am.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
There is a piece that is indescribable when
you're being who you are andyou're living your purpose.
I'm not gonna come to the end ofmy life and be like, I didn't
live the life I was meant tolive.
SPEAKER_04 (00:30):
Can I be so comfortable in the unknown and
so comfortable in thatuncertainty that every version
of it is going to be okay?
SPEAKER_05 (00:38):
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
Hello, hello, body.
Hello, body.
SPEAKER_06 (00:53):
Hello, hello, puppet.
SPEAKER_05 (00:58):
There we go.
All right.
We're better.
Love a better.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02):
Oh yeah.
I am so excited to have youback.
We had such a great conversationlast time, but we didn't get
into the money stuff the waythat we planned.
So I'll give the floor toMelissa to do an intro of our
first recurring guest.
We love her so much.
(01:22):
I really I love you all.
And if anyone wants to go backand listen to the first episode
with Shazia, that would beseason one, episode 24.
Rock bottom to sky high, howadversity fuels radical
self-discovery.
And we get to talk to Shaziaagain.
And she has so much light andwisdom, infectious joy.
And I can't wait to dive in withyou today.
(01:44):
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_06 (01:46):
Oh, I feel so special.
Thank you.
I had a great time on thatepisode too.
I still laugh sometimes.
There are some really laughablemoments.
SPEAKER_05 (01:53):
Yeah, because we got really into like spreadsheet
porn.
Wait.
Cacaffeinate.
SPEAKER_06 (01:58):
Cacatenate.
Cacatenate.
It's like when you drink toomuch caffeine, you cacaffeinate.
Cacatenate.
Concatenate.
It's when you bring two cellstogether with various words, and
then you bring them togetherinto one cell using a formula
called concatenate.
It's the best.
SPEAKER_05 (02:14):
Concatenate.
And then for those coffeedrinkers, you can cacaffinate
also.
So there's a lot of things youcan do with this word.
Oh my goodness.
Well, Shazia mom is anaward-winning speaker, host of
the top 12 podcast, femininefulfilled, and lovingly known as
the life engineer.
After two decades of thriving inthe corporate world as an
(02:37):
engineer for Fortune 500companies, Shazia hit the reset
button to follow her heart andsoul's calling.
Now, as an ICF certified lifecoach, she's on a mission to
help women embrace their trueselves, live with purpose, and
step into their power andcacaffeinate like a boss.
I'm gonna reach out to yourassistant Jazzy to have her add
(02:59):
that in there.
Feels like a missing link.
People can't really understandyou without that.
SPEAKER_06 (03:05):
Is this the right moment to say I don't really
drink caffeine?
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
You're not, you're you're decaceinated.
That's amazing to me.
Because not only are you thelife engineer, but you're the
life of the party.
You bring so much life force,and I am so impressed that you
don't need caffeine to do that.
SPEAKER_06 (03:22):
I do these days, as I'm getting older, I've hit that
hump of like those perimenopauseads in Instagram are really
becoming real relevant.
Real relevant.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (03:34):
Yeah.
We were laughing last nightbecause my girlfriend and I went
to a talent show for theelementary school, and we had
our two seven-year-olds in theback, and she looked at me and
was like, I wish I had theirenergy.
And they said, we did beforethey came.
Like they did this.
They're the reason we don't havethat kind of energy.
Oh my gosh.
And perimenopause, probably.
(03:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (03:55):
Yeah.
So many things.
But anyhow, that's aconversation for another day.
But I'm so glad to see you bothagain.
It's been a long time.
So glad to see you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (04:04):
What is your relationship right now with your
inner rebel?
SPEAKER_06 (04:08):
Oh my goodness.
That's such a good question.
So, what's interesting is thereare two things that came up when
you said it.
One is a revolution aroundwealth and money.
And the second is actually aquiet around rebellion.
They both seem like they'retotally opposite ends of this
(04:31):
conversation.
But that is what is true for meright now is that I'm definitely
in a more quiet season in mylife, which doesn't mean I'm I
necessarily show up anydifferently, but I'm noticing
how I'm much more focused on howI'm protecting my energy.
That feels like a rebellion,right?
Because protecting your energyas a woman means not people
(04:54):
pleasing as much, not saying yesto all the things.
And sometimes I just need somequiet.
This is coming from somebody whois very extroverted.
I love being around people, butsometimes I just need some quiet
from all the noise and all thethings.
(05:15):
So that's one part of it.
The other part regarding wealthand money is I actually did a
masterclass this week called Howto Get That F you Money.
Okay, we're talking the F youmoney, the one where you can say
F you and have an opportunity tohave that ultimate freedom,
right?
To do what you want, when youwant, how you want.
And I really wanted to have thisclass because I think it's
(05:35):
really important to starttalking about the conversation
in a deeper way.
And one of the things that wasreally important to me, and I
started off the class with it,was acknowledging that we are
very privileged in where we liveright now and how we live.
And the revolution to me isactually being able to take that
(05:58):
privilege and not be apatheticbecause personally, on a very
personal level, I feel, I feelso torn with everything
happening in the world right nowand in our own country, right?
There's so much stuff where it'slike, are we in a twilight zone?
Like, literally, are we in atwilight zone where it is okay
to do things that are justabsolutely wrong and oppressive?
(06:20):
The leadership in 2025 in theUnited States of America is a
convicted felon numerous times,who is a misogynist, who is a
number of things.
Okay, I'm not going to get intopolitics, but you already know
my politics now.
But to not even have a leaderwith decorum and charisma and
(06:43):
simply just being able to besomebody that you can look at in
high regard.
That to me is so representativeof the world we're living in
right now, um, where we'reseeing that all across the
board, all across the world.
I believe that the revolutionnow is that women, marginalized
people, minorities, people ofcolor, anyone who can check even
(07:06):
one box these days.
The revolution is that weabsolutely get to have access to
wealth, access to money, accessto power so that we can make a
difference.
And so to me, being wealthy is arebellion because somebody like
me typically would not be.
(07:26):
And to be able to do it andchange the world, but also not
have to change the world just tohave it because I'm just as
worthy as somebody who canliterally become president with
the lack of credentials.
People with that lack ofcredentials can't even get a
job.
And this person becamepresident.
(07:47):
If it takes so little forcertain people to be at the
highest of places, thenabsolutely talented, caring,
compassionate women like us alsoget to be doing that in whatever
way is meaningful to us.
SPEAKER_05 (08:03):
So I mean, I want to go on a political rabbit hole
with you right now, but I don'tknow that that's what we need to
do today.
But my blood is boiling.
SPEAKER_03 (08:12):
There's so much you just said that I want to unpack.
One thing when I think about themoney stuff that I work through,
and I think a lot of people feelsome guilt at the notion of
having a lot of abundance whenother people don't.
And one thing that I've beentrying to understand or
integrate in myself is that it'svery difficult to be of service
(08:34):
when you're in survival.
Not that you can't be, ofcourse, you show up in the world
and you can be generous ofspirit and make a big difference
in people's lives, of course.
But in order to have the kind ofimpact in the world, like
revolutionary impact, it reallydoes help to have resources.
It really does help to step intoyour power.
SPEAKER_06 (08:56):
And I wonder if you can speak to that.
Yeah, I think it's so important.
So, you know, going back to theclass, it was really interesting
because I shared what I sharedwith you.
And then I was like, who's readyto start the revolution?
This is a revolution.
Because we can't sit back andbecome apathetic.
So I even put in those questionslike, how do we get to be
(09:17):
well-resourced, right?
How do we move towards thingsthat will keep us
well-resourced, that will giveus power, that will give us
money?
How do we do that when, yes,like you said, we're feeling so
bad when others don't havethings?
That's a real feeling.
And I want to acknowledge that.
But we can't allow that to letus become apathetic or not be
doing the best that we can do inwho we are.
(09:40):
So this is something I alwaysbelieve we should do.
Be the best at who you are, andlet's be strategic.
Okay, let's be strategic.
I want to dispel the notionbecause what we've seen up until
now in many places is that thosewith money and power tend to be
people that we don't respect orwe don't feel like we want to
(10:03):
become.
When you don't have thatmodeling in front of you, you're
actually creating something newfrom nothing.
And that also starts creatingbelief systems that money is
bad.
Money changes people.
You're going to turn intosomebody who is going to become
this person that you don't wantto be.
And so so many people who are socompassionate and so giving and
(10:28):
can make such a difference endup repelling things away
energetically rather thanallowing themselves to also be
people who get to bewell-resourced so that they can
make a difference.
So being able to talk aboutmoney very frankly, and I'm
happy to do that today in anyway, shape, or form, if that is
a way to open things up, beingable to talk about that and
(10:49):
being able to say, I am worthyof having that.
And it will allow me to do moreof what I want because we do
live in a world that requiresresources, like you said, Jess.
And we can't pretend that it'snot.
We we just can't.
It's not working.
It's actually causing moreproblems with people being too
(11:11):
nice.
And that's why I'm talking aboutgetting that FU money.
I want people to have that F youmoney so that you can literally
do what it is that you want andnot be stuck like a cog in the
wheel or on the hamster wheel,just spinning and spinning and
spinning.
SPEAKER_05 (11:28):
I have been on such a journey with money lately
because I had a great career.
I did very well from day one outof college and was very
successful financially andindependently.
Going from that to a startup hasbeen a real mind fuck for me
because I went fromself-sufficient, earning a great
(11:52):
living, having my independence,to then going for my dreams,
which I know it'll besuccessful.
I'm not, I don't have doubtsabout that.
But there is a point, especiallywhen you are a founder, if you
don't have VC money, you don'thave PE money, you know, where
you're going for your dreams.
And sometimes, a lot of times,like I did it before, where
there was a bridge where therewas something else that I had
(12:14):
that was funneling into.
But now my whole energeticoutput is around this huge
vision.
And so it's been a veryinteresting dynamic in myself
and a great, great healingopportunity around, oh, I'm only
powerful if I'm the one thatmakes the money.
I'm only powerful if I'mindependently wealthy.
(12:38):
I'm only powerful if I don'trely on, in my case, a man to
support me.
And so I'm curious your thoughtson these power dynamics, because
on one hand, you do have powerand freedom when you have money,
but also speak to the rise inthat.
And what else can bring uspower?
(12:58):
What else can bring ussovereignty as we're on our way
to the FU money?
I don't think that our onlypower is when we have money.
I think we all deserve it.
I think we're worthy of it, Ithink we're all capable of it.
It's interesting being in thisplace right now where I'm
reevaluating my self-worth andwhat it means all around money
(13:19):
and getting supported withmoney.
Because for me, money has alwaysbeen freedom.
When I was younger, I was like,well, if I can make money and
get out of the house and no onecan have power over me because
they're not controlling myfinancial decisions, then I am
free and I have power and I'msovereign.
And that's how I got my freedom.
SPEAKER_06 (13:36):
So I'm curious when you're talking about this place
you're in now, there's thisplace of clarity I just want to
get where you're talking aboutnot from somebody else or
something else.
Can you speak to that a bitmore?
Because that is a very nuancedconversation.
SPEAKER_05 (13:54):
So for me, it's like we're funding the business and
we're reliant in this season ofstartup with my husband's
income.
So I am dependent financially inthis season, and that's very new
for me.
I've had these visualizationswhere it's like, I'm not weaker
because I'm learning how to relyon support.
(14:16):
It doesn't take away my power,but so often it does.
When somebody has to rely onsomebody else's money, they
don't get to make the decisions.
They don't get to feel worthy oftheir dreams.
They don't get to feel like theyget to have the things that
bring them joy because it's nottheirs.
I'm interested in thisconversation because it's a
(14:37):
different lens than like, I havethe money, I'm sovereign, I'm
wealthy, I've got this shit.
Like, let's fucking go.
SPEAKER_06 (14:44):
So it's so interesting you bring that up
because I've actually been in asimilar sort of thought myself.
I think it is an interestingconversation when you've
typically been a veryindependent woman who is very
well resourced, right?
You had the independence, youhad the money, you had a certain
lifestyle, you were verysuccessful at what you did.
And now you're in a place whereit's very different, right?
(15:06):
You're relying on somebody else.
There's two things that come tomind.
And the reason I've been in thisplace is because I will say that
for the first time in my life,my partner is making more money
than me.
For the first time in my entirelife.
I think as of last year, Antoniohas surpassed what I'm earning.
And I thought about that becauseI was joking around one day and
(15:28):
I was like, oh, baby, like whatif you just take care of me?
And he's like, Yeah, of course.
And I felt so uncomfortable withthat.
I was like, oh no, no, oh God,no.
There has always been thisassumption that my husband's
made more than me.
And Antonio's my second husband.
It's a really interesting thingbecause I've actually been the
one who's always made moremoney.
I don't talk about it because,you know, societal norms, you're
(15:50):
not trying to like put a man'sbusiness out there, but I'm just
sharing transparently that Ialways have.
I had to actually in this lastyear, as he's making more
because his business is growingand business has been slower.
In the personal growth industry,it has slowed down.
Like, let's be really honest.
So I had to think about am Iokay with somebody providing for
(16:13):
me?
My personal answer was no.
However, when I'm listening toyou, share Melissa, and you're
talking about this.
If I was talking to you as myclient, I would say that is just
an additional source of revenue.
Right now, that is a revenuestream in your life.
And it would be very neutral.
You know, if I was looking onthe outside.
(16:35):
So when I hear you, it's veryneutral.
But I can feel what you'refeeling because I get that.
There feels like where the moneycomes from matters, but from an
energetic perspective, itactually does not matter where
money comes from.
It's just about the flow ofthings.
But there is this importantconversation that you're having
(16:56):
and even I'm having of where dowe feel like we can feel that
sovereignty truly?
SPEAKER_05 (17:04):
I mean, that's a big question.
Well, and it's alsogenerational, you know, it was
the way women have been treated.
It was our expectation to be inthe home, to not earn the money,
to birth babies.
I think a lot of that is thepatriarchy that is ingrained in
us.
Sure.
And it's valid too, becausethere's a lot of people that
choose different paths or giveup their independent wealth and
(17:28):
maybe take care of the family orwhatever that is for you, and
then find themselves in asituation where they're like,
uh-oh, this marriage didn'twork.
Now I don't have my ownindependence.
And so it's interesting becausein the flow of life, in the flow
of the seasonality of our rolesand our identities, it's like
some seasons we're here, we'reon top.
Some seasons we're shiftingthings, taking more space, maybe
(17:51):
shifting our careers.
And there's a fluidity to wealthinside of that.
SPEAKER_06 (17:56):
Yeah, there's absolutely a fluidity.
And one of the things when itcomes to wealth is understanding
what it even means to you.
This conversation is sointeresting because a woman
could be in a phenomenal,wealthy, like her husband makes
a ton of money situation, andshe could not feel wealthy
because she does not have thatindependence.
(18:18):
And then you can have someone,you know, I gave this example.
I have a friend I've known sincewe were in diapers.
Very early on, when we bothgraduated from college, she had
a baby.
I think when she was like 19,she got married young and she
had a baby young.
And she decided to live a verydifferent life, meaning, like,
she didn't get that corporatejob, she didn't do a lot of what
(18:39):
we were doing.
But she lived this incrediblyfree life.
Like she has hiked all acrossthe country.
And she's gone to so manyamazing parks and met amazing
people and homeschooled herdaughter, and she lived this
very alternate lifestyle fromlike the status quo.
But to me, she's lived thewealthiest life because she's
(19:00):
been so free.
She's never talked to me about,oh, I wish I had more money.
She just finds a way to makeeverything work.
And I've always really admiredthat.
So also, wealth is not about theamount of money, it's about what
it means to you, you know?
So it's not about just amassingmore wealth.
I actually think she's livingthat F you money life because
(19:22):
she never actually got one ofthose nine to five jobs where
she was supposed to work 40hours a week, but was working 60
hours and chained to thiscubicle.
So that's what I think is mostimportant is what does wealth
really mean to you?
Even F you money, what does thatmean to you?
And, you know, Melissa, in yourcase, because you brought it up,
(19:44):
you're creating that.
You're already in it, right?
You're doing something.
You left corporate, you left,you're creating it.
And now are you willing to see,well, this is how the universe
is providing for me right now.
I may not love it, but it is away that it's coming to me so
that I can do this thing thatreally feels like the thing I
want to do versus beingfinancially independent, which
(20:06):
you could do anytime again.
What's what's really importantto understand when it comes to
money and the questions you'reasking, which are really
interesting because they'rerelated to identity, everybody's
money journey is actually reallyspecific.
And there's a lot ofcookie-cutter things that are
out there.
I always tell people look, youcan go out and you can Google
(20:29):
how to invest, have an emergencysavings account.
The financial literacy piecesare actually all out there.
Okay.
And if I were to just boil themdown, you know, if somebody is
looking for a framework rightnow, what I would actually say
is make sure that you areinvesting money.
Even if you are somebody who iscurrently in debt right now,
(20:50):
also still put money aside tostart investing.
The investment options areinvesting into your retirement
and then also investing intosomething that you could pull
out within the next, you know,within the next 10 years, let's
say.
So you want to be looking atalso investing while paying down
debt because a lot of peopledon't talk about debt.
But I'll tell you from myexperience, the majority of
(21:13):
people, vast majority of people,are in debt.
My recommendation is always topay that down.
That is going to really supportyou.
So these are just two reallysimple things that if you can
begin to pay down your debt,that will snowball and start
paying itself off.
And if you can also be investingat the same time, that will also
be like a snowball and willstart to grow for you.
(21:35):
So these are two just likereally basic financial literacy
things.
And we can go into more detailabout that.
But what I want to move beyondactually the cookie cutter
things is the money journey isactually really specific to you.
It means something to you, liketo every single person, the
identity question exists.
(21:55):
The question of like, well, howcan it actually come to me
exists?
And I am over here trying tothink, how can I distill it in a
way that can go out to like amass audience?
And what I'll say is this at thecore, money it can come in a
(22:16):
number of ways.
So let's not actually tie ouridentity to where it's coming
from.
If we're looking at money as atool for exchange and a tool
that resources us, then let'snot give it that extra power to
also be something that definesour identity.
Money will never be the definerof your identity, no matter how
(22:40):
much power we give to it.
And I'm just gonna be honest,because we do give power to it.
Why?
Because of the stories that wegrew up with, right?
Our own feeling of our identity,our own feeling of worth.
And even I think with all threeof us, we're all very self-aware
of ourselves and we're stillhaving these questions around
(23:00):
money and identity.
But from a money mindsetperspective, I invite everyone
to just let it go.
However, it's coming to you,that's just the way it's coming
to you in this season, andthat's great.
And we get to celebrate that.
It doesn't mean anything aboutyou one way or another.
I think that's major.
SPEAKER_03 (23:21):
I just want to just pipe that I think that's a
really major statement to make.
SPEAKER_05 (23:26):
Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (23:27):
Because it neutralizes it so much.
And I think we have, especiallyas women and feminist women and
empowered women, we do tie itinto identity because I think
that's what we've been fed.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (23:42):
Yeah.
And to me too, it's all alsobeen very hierarchical.
And I I think there was asubconscious thing that was
running in my family around thisof you're better than me.
You're smarter than me, likemeasuring each other up in a
lineup.
And those that have more actualmoney, I know wealth is a
(24:03):
spectrum.
But that is it's an interestingenergy.
And I would love for you to diginto the energetics of money
that we might be missing.
Like when you're saying it'sactually neutral, it doesn't
mean anything, but we make itmean so much.
So much.
And it's interesting too,because I live in a pretty
(24:24):
well-off area.
And a lot of the women are, Imean, the men all work too, but
a lot of the women are makingmore money.
And there's a lot of nicethings, and you're like, oh,
they're buying a second houseand they're buying this.
And then you're like, shit, wegotta remodel our house again.
We need new furniture.
We gotta buy the, you know, it'slike you start to the comparison
game.
So I would love for you to diginto the energetics around this
(24:46):
and help us neutralize money.
SPEAKER_06 (24:50):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
That's so juicy because you knowwhat?
It's not just that we're doingthis hierarchical thing.
Everybody's doing thishierarchical thing to each
other, too.
But don't talk about it.
SPEAKER_05 (25:02):
So that's what's happening everywhere.
Like, don't fucking talk aboutit.
Like, people are like buyinghouse.
They're like, I don't want youto know what I'm like, the what
you paid for your house is gonnabe on the MLS.
Like, we're gonna know.
You know, not a three milliondollar house.
You know, but it's so tacky.
Don't talk about money.
But meanwhile, it's like runningthe show for everybody.
SPEAKER_06 (25:22):
A hundred percent.
And who is saying not to talkabout money, by the way?
It's women and people saying itto women.
This is so a part of thepatriarchy, right?
Women shouldn't talk aboutmoney.
Do you think that men are not?
They are.
They are.
Not all of them, right?
Like, I don't want to lump themall together.
But a lot of the men who have alot of money are talking about
(25:42):
money because that's just normaland natural, right?
SPEAKER_05 (25:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, it totally is.
I I saw this post the other daythat was something I was
triggered by it because it waslike the boys' club, the old
boys' club, or whatever you callit, is kind of on to something.
Not in like it's okay or theyshould do that, but it's like,
what if we started to bring someof those conversations to the
surface?
Yeah.
To help each other out.
(26:05):
You know, there's this sacrednepotism of the old boys' club,
they're hiring each other,they're having these insider
conversations.
And as women, we need to bedoing some of that too.
SPEAKER_06 (26:14):
We do.
And, you know, I actually don'tthink that there's anything
wrong with that.
I think that's natural.
If we're a group of friends andan opportunity came and I knew,
like, hey, Jess, you're gonna begreat for that, wouldn't I want
to tell you that?
That's why it's important for usto be in more powerful
positions, to be talking, to begrowing together and elevating
because it brings everyonetogether.
(26:35):
It really does.
And there is this book I read along time ago called Secrets of
the Millionaire Mind.
Have you read this?
By T.
Har Becker.
So, one thing I loved about thebook, and I'm sure if I read it
today, I would be like, I don'tlove it so much anymore.
I have a feeling, but at thetime I learned a lot because it
was about money mindset andthinking about things in a
(26:56):
different way.
The reason I'm bringing this upis because when I was reading
the book, I had gone to thisdinner party with a group of
friends, and I was like, hey,y'all, I'm reading this book.
It's called Secrets of theMillionaire Mind.
I'm thinking about starting thisMillionaires Club.
Some people are like, What isthat?
And I'm like, I don't know.
But let's just start it.
And it's gonna be a place wherewe talk about money and we're
(27:16):
gonna talk about becoming rich.
And some people thought, like, Iwas, you know, doing one of my
wild ideas again, and they justkind of ignored me.
But some of my friends werelike, Yes, we want to be a part
of that.
So I started this WhatsApp groupcalled Millionaires Club.
And it was literally just thesame group of friends that
typically hung out together allthe time.
But we started talking aboutmoney, it became more open, and
(27:39):
everyone in that group becamemillionaires.
Can you add me to that test?
Can I ultimately add to that?
So I'm actually starting amillionaires club in January.
Yes, you can come in based onthis promise.
And it's just, it's kind ofcrazy because it's not even that
we were like, let's exchangestock tips or something.
It was simply talking aboutbeing millionaires.
(28:01):
It was simply putting it out onthe table and starting to have
different conversations.
Oh, Jess, do you have aquestion?
SPEAKER_03 (28:10):
It's not a question, it's just a it's just a thought
that came through.
You know, there's the shame ofnot having, but there's also
shame in claiming that I wantit.
Yes.
Even putting into words, I wantto be a millionaire makes you
feel like you have to apologizeor justify or explain it, or you
know, there's okay, but when Isay one millionaire, for me, I'm
(28:31):
like, yeah, I want that shit.
SPEAKER_05 (28:33):
And you're like, you know, it's just so interesting,
just like the difference.
But that's not true.
SPEAKER_06 (28:40):
You want it to be in too, Jess?
SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
Yeah, no, I want to, I want to be in it.
I'm just, I'm just realizingthere's this undercurrent of
yes, I want it, and I know why Iwant it, but the perception or
how does it make other peoplefeel, or what does that say
about me is also lurking theresomewhere.
Uh yes.
SPEAKER_05 (28:59):
We're getting in this text thread if it's the
last thing we do.
I've never wanted to belong sobad to this text thread.
Speaking of belonging, please.
SPEAKER_06 (29:13):
I mean, isn't it so fun?
Like, isn't this energy fun?
Could you imagine talking topeople like this about money?
Does it feel fun and light andgood?
And you could be like, oh myGod, y'all, I had my
million-dollar year.
You'd be like, hi five, goodgirl.
You know, like that's the way itgets to be.
It actually gets to be thatsimple.
(29:34):
It really gets to be that simplethat we start celebrating that
we want money, that we desire,you know, we get to start
encouraging each other.
And it just also gets to becomenormal.
SPEAKER_07 (29:51):
But how do we do that?
SPEAKER_03 (29:57):
We all be away.
And how do we disinvest?
Entangle from those beliefsystems, or if we did grow up
with scarcity, or if we did growup without that literacy, and
there's all this subconsciousconditioning around it, how do
you begin to unravel thosethreads in order to actually
believe it's possible?
SPEAKER_06 (30:16):
Yeah, so you start somewhere, right?
I know Jess, you're saying thiswas my story.
This is everybody's story.
Everybody has grown up inscarcity in some way, shape, or
form.
My father, he grew up in Indiain a village with no shoes and
one outfit and walked to schoolfor a mile every single day with
(30:36):
no shoes.
I heard this story all the time.
I had to finish the food in myplate because someone across the
world didn't have food, and thatused to be him.
And that could have been me,right?
That could have also been me.
This is my story, right?
So the scarcity stories allexist.
The subconscious thread exists,but it's so specific to
(30:59):
everyone.
That's why you have to startsomewhere.
And there's no financialliteracy.
There was none.
I mean, not in the US.
There was nothing.
And actually, we live in asociety.
We live in a society thatthrives on people being chained
to consumerism.
There is a great animation docushort thing called The Story of
(31:24):
Stuff.
And it is phenomenal if anybodywants to take a watch.
And it really talks about theliteral wheel that we have been
placed in to just work, feel badabout ourselves, spend money, go
work more to pay for the thingswe bought.
And it's a cycle.
And then that stuff just goes toa landfill.
(31:47):
So her focus is a lot aboutconsumerism.
But why do we have a system sobased on debt?
Debt will shackle you.
That is what it is meant to do.
It is doing its job.
We get to open our eyes to that.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing is you're notalone and understanding that
you're not, and then taking thefirst step for you.
(32:09):
So I want to get to your how.
When we're getting honest about,okay, we know that we're already
up against a whole system thatwants to keep us in a certain
place in a certain way.
The next thing is to get honestabout our own stories, our own
money stories.
And something really importantthat every person can do is
(32:30):
starting to understand what ismy pattern when it comes to
money and wealth.
I'm going to share two things.
One is relationship and one isthe pattern.
So everybody has a pattern.
The pattern is typicallylearned.
Okay.
So if you think back to whatyour family story was, I'll give
(32:51):
one example.
Was it feast or famine?
I'm thinking about this oneclient, this beautiful client I
had.
And when she was growing up, herfamily didn't have steady
income.
They would have these gigs andthen they would have money, and
then that was enough at thetime, and then they would have
these periods of famine.
So that's how she had beenliving her whole life feast and
(33:12):
famine.
Some people may have been goodfor a long time, and then all of
a sudden something happened intheir life, the shoe dropped,
and everything went away.
And so they live their lifealways believing that the shoe
is going to drop.
So there's different patterns.
And when you can identify whatyour pattern is, you'll start to
(33:33):
see this energetic wealth spherethat you live in.
For me, I lived in a home wheremy parents constantly fought
about money because they justdid not have enough money.
They were just trying to putfood on the table.
But what added an extra layer isI shared about my dad coming
(33:53):
from a village, but my mom grewup with so much wealth.
She lived in a beautiful homewith a courtyard and servants.
And her father was the directorof agriculture in this one state
in India.
They went to a Catholic school.
They were very privileged.
But he was murdered when she was15 years old.
(34:24):
She knew she had to do whateverit took to make sure they were
taken care of.
And as every daughter got oldenough, they were married off,
married off, married off.
And my dad seemed like a greatsuitor because he had come to
America.
But their upbringings werecompletely different.
That came into my household as achild, and that created this
(34:48):
weird energy in me where I canreally hold well, but I can't.
Like I feel bad about it.
I feel shame about it.
SPEAKER_03 (34:58):
So interesting because both of their stories
carry so much pain, even thoughthey came from such different
circumstances.
Yes.
So no matter whether you'rewealthy or you have scarcity,
there's still pain that weassociate with money in various
ways.
SPEAKER_06 (35:14):
Yeah.
And so they, you know, theywould fight about it and they it
would just it caused me to feellike, well, I never want to
worry about money.
Then I spent my whole life beinglike, well, I'm just gonna set
everything up, and here's all myspreadsheets, and I'm gonna do
this thing.
And, you know, it manifests sodifferently for every single
person.
So when you can identify yourpattern, and I'm curious if
(35:35):
anything came up for either ofyou, when you can identify that
pattern, then you can start tochange the story.
SPEAKER_03 (35:44):
I'm curious for you though, because I know that you
just said that you had thispattern of like, I can hold it,
but I can't.
But then you said, so I wantedto have ease with it and
freedom, and I did all thesethings.
But there must have beensomething in between there that
you learned, or what was it thatyou needed to develop or shift
in order to make a completelydifferent approach possible for
(36:06):
you?
SPEAKER_06 (36:06):
So for me personally, in my journey, what
shifted it for me was believingthat I could treat myself like a
VIP, that I could actually spendon myself, that I could invest
in things because I did thingseven though I was doing the
right financial things, quoteunquote, like I was doing the
(36:27):
right financial things.
I was living in a scarcity thatI couldn't spend on myself.
It was always like save, save,save, save, say, don't do
anything, don't buy anything.
For me, realizing that I cantreat myself like a VIP, that I
can spend on myself wasabsolutely earth-shattering.
And there were actually a lot ofsteps in between.
I know you're asking for thatthing, but this is why I'm
(36:49):
saying you have to start byknowing what it is for you
because I needed to startspending on myself.
I needed to start believing thatI was taken care of outside of
what was in a spreadsheet.
I needed to believe that if Iwanted something, I could have
(37:14):
it.
And I didn't actually believethat for myself.
It was it's so much.
SPEAKER_05 (37:20):
Oh my gosh, tell me.
Well, it's been such a pendulum.
And I wouldn't say that I neverspent on myself, but I was
always really safe andcalculated and responsible.
Certain percentages went hereand certain percentages went
here.
And I looked at it, I was veryresponsible.
And there was no excessiveness,there was no unconscious
(37:42):
spending.
Like it was very calculated.
And then I became a mom and Imerged finances.
And my husband comes from a verydifferent background to me.
And I remember when I started tolike spend more money on myself.
I think I swung the pendulumkind of far in the other
(38:03):
direction, to be honest, when Igot into like personal growth.
I do too.
I do too.
What if I wanted a whole newwardrobe?
What if I did that?
So I started to spend a lot onmyself.
And then I was like, you don'tget to tell me that I can't
spend on myself.
I get to spend on my, you know,but the pendulum went like way
in the other direction.
(38:23):
And so there is this middleground that I have never had
training in.
We'll just call it experiencetraining.
That is both yes and yes, set itaside, be responsible, look at
the things, but also like be aVIP.
So I think the pendulum swingingsomewhere back in the middle is
kind of what's actually beenhappening in my life and that
(38:44):
part of the lesson that I'mlearning.
But as you were talking, I waslike, ooh, this really
resonates.
And being able to like, yeah,live in both worlds where
treating yourself like a VIPdoesn't mean you're
irresponsible or unconsciousabout it.
It's like you're actually justdoing nice things for yourself.
SPEAKER_06 (39:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is.
I mean, just I keep thinkingabout your question too, about
the how, you know, and it's likeI I am an engineer.
So I'm like, I'm a problemsolver.
What is the answer?
What is the answer?
Something has to shift.
And I really believe that at thecore is knowing your patterns,
believing that you're worthy ofhaving money until you believe
(39:23):
that you are worthy of it.
Then things start from there andhas to start from that belief
shifting, along with thetactical things too.
But knowing that pattern isreally important because
breaking that will affect you inall parts of your life.
SPEAKER_03 (39:40):
I really like that you have made the energetics of
money an individual thing, ifthat makes sense.
Because I think when people talkabout the energy of money, what
we leave out is that can be sucha personal relationship.
Is it because of the story thatwe project onto it?
Is that Yes, I think it's that.
SPEAKER_06 (39:59):
That's where again, let's go back to the neutrality.
You know, I think that if we canjust look at money as neutral,
it will take a lot of thingsoff.
But if it is reflecting backsomething to you, then look at
that.
What is it reflecting back?
That's why identifying thepattern is important.
Let me tell you the relationshippiece too.
So we do put a lot onto money.
(40:22):
And if we liken money to arelationship, okay.
So you can think of it as alover, a friend, or an enemy,
right?
It can be really anything, butlooking at your relationship
with money as though it was anentity.
So if money was an entity, and Ialways do this for money, I
don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (40:40):
My money is like a sexy bitch.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I'm like curvy, sexy bitch.
Jessica Rabbit.
Oh, we should all get likelittle Jessica Rabbit things for
our desks and be like, this ismy money sexy bit.
unknown (40:59):
I know.
SPEAKER_06 (41:00):
My sexy bit time.
Because I'm always doing thisevery time I talk about your
relationship, the entity ofmoney.
So I'm picturing Jessica Rabbitlike unfolding between your
hands.
So when you look at money as anentity, so right now, if each of
you thought of money as anentity, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Yeah, oh, I like it.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (41:21):
We take this stuff seriously.
Yeah.
I love this.
So if you think of money as anentity today, okay, without any
judgment, what is yourrelationship with money?
And oh, Jess already knows.
I'll give some examples in casesomebody is like, well, what
(41:42):
does that mean?
So is your relationship withmoney controlling?
Is it fearful?
Is it uh oh god, I'm just gonnaput my head in the sand, I don't
want to look.
Is it uh unhealthy?
Is it I can't even think.
(42:03):
I've given some examples now.
So I'd love to hear from both ofyou.
What is your relationship withmine?
Mixed messagey, a littleconfused.
SPEAKER_05 (42:11):
Mine, mine I saw like a giant, was like a big
golden tower far away from me.
So what I what I felt was likeoutside of me.
SPEAKER_06 (42:21):
Ooh, and far away.
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (42:25):
Okay, Jess, coming back to you.
Melissa gave a little side liptwitch.
Don't judge me, Jessica Rabbit.
SPEAKER_06 (42:33):
Jessica Roberts coming for you.
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (42:36):
And can I say one other thing about that?
Because we already brought uppolitics.
So I'm gonna bring up religionreal quick.
It almost feels to me like whenI used to believe that religion,
God, spirit was like a man inthe sky in the cloud out here.
And then I had to bring it inhere.
It actually felt almost like thesame energetics of bringing
spirit into soul, bringing moneyinto the body.
(42:58):
It felt very similar to me.
SPEAKER_06 (43:01):
And when you thought about money as an entity,
honestly, it was that, right?
The far away, the thing overthere, the thing that you'll get
later.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
And Jess, you said mixedmessagey.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
Tell me about that.
I think because I would say thatsome of the deepest lessons of
the last few years around moneyfor me have been around
receiving.
Like really believing I deserveand receiving and also trusting
that it's there, that it'savailable, and I've been tested
in that over and over again, butit always shows up.
(43:36):
And then there's this other sidewhere, in reaction, I think, to
certain aspects of my childhood,I tend to be overly generous and
overcompensate for certainfeelings of scarcity with
indulgence at times.
Um, and then there's anotheraspect of being avoidant of the
(43:57):
literacy around it.
So I think there's all of thesethings happening simultaneously.
And I'm like, well, that's allover the place.
You know, there isn't really oneclear, consistent, healthy
dynamic going on.
SPEAKER_06 (44:13):
Yeah.
And and imagine for both of you,if it was an actual person,
let's say it was a loverrelationship and you're thinking
about what just came up for bothof you.
Is that the relationship thatyou would want to be in?
SPEAKER_03 (44:25):
No, but I feel like the problem is on my end.
unknown (44:29):
You know?
SPEAKER_03 (44:30):
Well, like, why don't I know my role in the
relationship?
You're being so hard onyourself.
SPEAKER_05 (44:37):
You had a thumbs up bubble in the meantime.
SPEAKER_06 (44:40):
But did you give the thumbs up?
Where's the thumbs up comingfrom?
SPEAKER_05 (44:42):
No, I just didn't.
It just showed up.
SPEAKER_03 (44:46):
It's such an interesting universe to reflect
that I'm being hard on myselfbecause I think this is the one
area where I am.
Yeah.
I can't even think of anotherarea where I still feel that
kind of tension.
SPEAKER_06 (44:59):
And so that's something to explore.
Because even when I'm like, ifyou were to think about that as
a relationship, if you werewith, let's say, like you were
with a partner that you kind ofjust always felt a little bit
weird around, right?
Like a little bit uncomfortable.
Like I can't really say thething, right?
Like you want to have theconversation, but you can't.
Um, you're okay when they giveyou stuff, but then you feel
(45:22):
like you've got to give it away.
Do you see like how if this wasin a relationship with the
person, like that's the energyI'm feeling?
Is that like kind of the waythat you feel?
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
For sure.
I hear what you're saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Start to actually think about itas an entity, as a person now.
Like now bring it to a person.
(45:43):
So if Melissa, for you, if youthink of this faraway tower as a
person, what is thatrelationship that you're in with
that person?
SPEAKER_05 (45:52):
Yeah, it's like inaccessible, hard to get to,
not mine.
Those are kind of the mainthings outside of me.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06 (46:04):
And if that's a person and they're inaccessible
and hard to get to, what are youwanting with them?
Are you like trying to be like,but look at me over here?
Or you're like, oh, I can't eventalk to them.
What's happening in yourrelationship with that person?
SPEAKER_05 (46:19):
It's like getting to you feels like so much work.
Feels so overwhelming.
It feels like a lot of time,attention.
It feels like you are gonna needa lot from me, and I don't have
that to give.
And so then you don't give it.
(46:40):
Or I'm like, next week we'lllook at these things.
And I'm starting to do more ofit.
Like I, you know, I hired abookkeeper and I ops person is
making me look at it because I'mt telling her to make me look at
it.
But it was like when I had theshift into a new season around
it of more output, I was like,I'm doing something wrong, even
(47:01):
though I'm not.
And I don't want to look at itbecause it feels shamey.
SPEAKER_06 (47:06):
Okay.
So isn't it interesting to thinkabout money as an entity and as
a person and as a relationship,what it is currently.
And what you can do with that,I'll just add mine to the mix
too.
For me, mine was controlling.
I was trying to control all thetime.
If I just controlled you, thenwe're gonna do this together.
(47:28):
But I wanted to be this powercouple with money.
And money was literally beingcrushed under me, right?
Until I let go.
So then what you can do is youcan start thinking about what
relationship you want.
A beautiful thing to do is towrite a letter.
Write a letter to money.
Wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (47:48):
I want you to come back and we all read letters to
each other.
SPEAKER_06 (47:51):
Oh my gosh, we'll share my letter.
It's so interesting.
So yeah, write a letter tomoney, to the current
relationship.
Because one thing that's reallyimportant is that you can't live
in a place where you'repretending anything.
So it's not about like, well,tell me what the best way to
think is about money.
No, no, no, no, no.
(48:12):
You're gonna be so honest.
You already said yourrelationship now.
And that's beautiful because yougot really honest.
You're gonna write that letterto that current relationship and
then let money know what is thenew relationship I would like
with you?
What would I like it to be?
Because this isn't working foreither of us.
SPEAKER_05 (48:29):
I feel like I need to do this with my husband too.
SPEAKER_03 (48:34):
You know what's so interesting to me is we've been
doing this podcast now for awhile, and we have had some
hella vulnerable conversationsgoing into the crevices of our
soul.
And this is the most vulnerableI've ever felt.
Oh.
SPEAKER_05 (48:50):
Isn't that interesting?
Interesting, isn't it?
Interesting.
Well, it's not I I'm thinking ofeven just the conversation we
had about sexuality on one ofone of the conversations we had.
And when you're talking, I knowthere's a lot of like tactical
hows, but there's so much powerlike in getting, I'm beating the
(49:11):
dead horse around community allthe time.
But when we can talk aboutthings that feel so shameful, so
taboo, it becomes normal.
You're not judged, it getsneutralized, and you can do this
on a regular basis inside of acommunity.
It's how we shift it.
Because, you know, the firsttime you have the conversation
feels like shit in your body,and then you don't die, and then
(49:34):
you have it again and you haveit again and you have it again,
and eventually you have power.
You're in a totally newrelationship with it, but it has
to establish that safety aroundit.
SPEAKER_07 (49:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (49:44):
And that's why when we don't can't talk about it,
don't talk about it, aren'tallowed to talk about it, we can
never transmute it.
You can't because it's likeshoved in a like I think Beth
called it like a critter overhere in a closet.
It's like put that critter inthe closet and don't look at it.
Yeah.
So it's just fascinating to me.
And when I look at every area ofmy life that I used to feel like
(50:05):
shit about, and now I'm totallyopen about it.
The difference has been open,vulnerable conversations on a
consistent basis with people whoare safe who can hold it with
me.
Agreed.
unknown (50:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (50:16):
Everybody join the Nova.
Just kidding.
SPEAKER_06 (50:18):
Yes.
Do you join the Nova?
Why are you?
SPEAKER_05 (50:21):
That is a total yes.
Right.
But that's the power, and it'sall of them.
You know, I was talking withJazzy the other day.
Like, what are all theconversations that women want to
be having that we're not havingor we're not allowed to have, or
it's shameful you're notsupposed to talk about that,
including religion, includingpolitics, money, sexuality,
including all these things,because that's how we stay out
(50:44):
of our power around all of them.
Yes.
And I'm so glad you're talkingabout it, Jess.
SPEAKER_03 (50:48):
Me too.
Yeah.
But I think it says somethingabout how we all have so much
personal attachment and meaningthat we've given it.
And for many of us, it's feltlike it's held power over us at
various times in our lives andit's so embedded in the
patriarchy.
Like I just think it's a reallybig, deep topic, but it doesn't
seem like it would be becauseit's just money.
(51:11):
Like it's just it, you know, andyet it holds a lot of meaning in
our lives, right?
SPEAKER_06 (51:16):
It does, yeah.
And I'll I'll tell you somethingjust on the inside is now, I
work with so many women at alllevels.
And it's so interesting to meetthe consistency between the
feelings of shame and feelingalone and feeling like I'm the
only one.
And oh my God, I'm like, I'mgonna tell you this, but don't
(51:38):
tell anyone.
And sometimes I want to be likeif we were just all open about
it, we're all kind of feelingthe same way, and in a very like
our own unique blend of things.
Money is so interesting in thatwhat I've learned over time with
my wealth coaching is thatoriginally it started because I
had some entrepreneur friendswho just needed help with what
do I do with my money andincrease my profit and things.
(52:00):
And I was like, oh, okay, let'ssit with this spreadsheet.
And we would do all that.
But as I started talking to eachof them, what started coming out
was the underlying belief andallowing them to see that money
is neutral, that you're doing alot better than you think.
I want to tell you, you reallyare, because no one's gonna tell
you that, but I know it.
(52:20):
After seeing so many women'slike literal finances, you're
doing a lot better than youthink.
You're so much closer than youthink.
And also ultimately, the work isthe beliefs, it is the
energetics.
But it doesn't take a lot.
It doesn't take a lot to do thework.
It's about looking at it headon, being honest about it.
(52:43):
Write this letter.
This is a great exercise.
Start that path and don't go atit alone.
Find a community like the Novawhere you can talk about it.
Come to somebody trusted likemyself, or find somebody in your
life that you can talk to aboutit.
But you get to be wealthy.
You just do, period.
(53:05):
And the money aspect is actuallyone of the easiest things to
work on, even though it feelslike, uh, you know, once you do
break through that, yes, thingschange across the board.
SPEAKER_03 (53:19):
Thank you, Shazia.
I'm so happy that you came back.
And I know that we have to wrapup, but yeah, just one tiny
little question before you go,just to circle back.
What are you finding in thequiet?
SPEAKER_06 (53:32):
Oh my gosh, Jessie, you asked such good questions.
Oh, gosh.
You know, what I'm finding inthe quiet is that I'm really
good where I'm at, and I get toaccept it.
I've had a lifelong journey of alot of hardship, which I know a
(53:53):
lot of people have had.
And I've actually found thatit's been harder for me to
accept and lean into thegoodness and the greatness and
the celebration of my life.
That has been more challengingfor me than to actually be
worried about the things thatare not going well.
(54:14):
And so in the quiet, I've beenspending a lot of time being
like, I'm good.
And I'm present to it.
SPEAKER_03 (54:22):
Thank you, Shassia.
SPEAKER_05 (54:25):
I love you, Shazia.
SPEAKER_06 (54:27):
I'd love you guys to come back and we'll read our
letters.
We should do a letter reading.
Maybe we'll do something atNova.
SPEAKER_05 (54:34):
Well, I have some ideas, Brewing, for the ush.
I am on the same page with you.
All right.
Thank you.
To even question what you've been told is true is
incredibly courageous.
It doesn't always feel likecourage, what looks like courage
to other people.
For me, it feels like survival.
This is our personal medicine.
SPEAKER_00 (00:15):
If I'm surrounded by thinkers, by lovers, by passion,
by integrity, then I really dothink that I know who I am.
SPEAKER_01 (00:21):
There is a piece that is indescribable when
you're being who you are andyou're living your purpose.
I'm not gonna come to the end ofmy life and be like, I didn't
live the life I was meant tolive.
SPEAKER_04 (00:30):
Can I be so comfortable in the unknown and
so comfortable in thatuncertainty that every version
of it is going to be okay?
SPEAKER_05 (00:38):
This is the Inner Rebel Podcast.
Hello, hello, body.
Hello, body.
SPEAKER_06 (00:53):
Hello, hello, puppet.
SPEAKER_05 (00:58):
There we go.
All right.
We're better.
Love a better.
SPEAKER_03 (01:02):
Oh yeah.
I am so excited to have youback.
We had such a great conversationlast time, but we didn't get
into the money stuff the waythat we planned.
So I'll give the floor toMelissa to do an intro of our
first recurring guest.
We love her so much.
(01:22):
I really I love you all.
And if anyone wants to go backand listen to the first episode
with Shazia, that would beseason one, episode 24.
Rock bottom to sky high, howadversity fuels radical
self-discovery.
And we get to talk to Shaziaagain.
And she has so much light andwisdom, infectious joy.
And I can't wait to dive in withyou today.
(01:44):
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited.
SPEAKER_06 (01:46):
Oh, I feel so special.
Thank you.
I had a great time on thatepisode too.
I still laugh sometimes.
There are some really laughablemoments.
SPEAKER_05 (01:53):
Yeah, because we got really into like spreadsheet
porn.
Wait.
Cacaffeinate.
SPEAKER_06 (01:58):
Cacatenate.
Cacatenate.
It's like when you drink toomuch caffeine, you cacaffeinate.
Cacatenate.
Concatenate.
It's when you bring two cellstogether with various words, and
then you bring them togetherinto one cell using a formula
called concatenate.
It's the best.
SPEAKER_05 (02:14):
Concatenate.
And then for those coffeedrinkers, you can cacaffinate
also.
So there's a lot of things youcan do with this word.
Oh my goodness.
Well, Shazia mom is anaward-winning speaker, host of
the top 12 podcast, femininefulfilled, and lovingly known as
the life engineer.
After two decades of thriving inthe corporate world as an
(02:37):
engineer for Fortune 500companies, Shazia hit the reset
button to follow her heart andsoul's calling.
Now, as an ICF certified lifecoach, she's on a mission to
help women embrace their trueselves, live with purpose, and
step into their power andcacaffeinate like a boss.
I'm gonna reach out to yourassistant Jazzy to have her add
(02:59):
that in there.
Feels like a missing link.
People can't really understandyou without that.
SPEAKER_06 (03:05):
Is this the right moment to say I don't really
drink caffeine?
Sure.
SPEAKER_03 (03:08):
You're not, you're you're decaceinated.
That's amazing to me.
Because not only are you thelife engineer, but you're the
life of the party.
You bring so much life force,and I am so impressed that you
don't need caffeine to do that.
SPEAKER_06 (03:22):
I do these days, as I'm getting older, I've hit that
hump of like those perimenopauseads in Instagram are really
becoming real relevant.
Real relevant.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (03:34):
Yeah.
We were laughing last nightbecause my girlfriend and I went
to a talent show for theelementary school, and we had
our two seven-year-olds in theback, and she looked at me and
was like, I wish I had theirenergy.
And they said, we did beforethey came.
Like they did this.
They're the reason we don't havethat kind of energy.
Oh my gosh.
And perimenopause, probably.
(03:55):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_06 (03:55):
Yeah.
So many things.
But anyhow, that's aconversation for another day.
But I'm so glad to see you bothagain.
It's been a long time.
So glad to see you.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_03 (04:04):
What is your relationship right now with your
inner rebel?
SPEAKER_06 (04:08):
Oh my goodness.
That's such a good question.
So, what's interesting is thereare two things that came up when
you said it.
One is a revolution aroundwealth and money.
And the second is actually aquiet around rebellion.
They both seem like they'retotally opposite ends of this
(04:31):
conversation.
But that is what is true for meright now is that I'm definitely
in a more quiet season in mylife, which doesn't mean I'm I
necessarily show up anydifferently, but I'm noticing
how I'm much more focused on howI'm protecting my energy.
That feels like a rebellion,right?
Because protecting your energyas a woman means not people
(04:54):
pleasing as much, not saying yesto all the things.
And sometimes I just need somequiet.
This is coming from somebody whois very extroverted.
I love being around people, butsometimes I just need some quiet
from all the noise and all thethings.
(05:15):
So that's one part of it.
The other part regarding wealthand money is I actually did a
masterclass this week called Howto Get That F you Money.
Okay, we're talking the F youmoney, the one where you can say
F you and have an opportunity tohave that ultimate freedom,
right?
To do what you want, when youwant, how you want.
And I really wanted to have thisclass because I think it's
(05:35):
really important to starttalking about the conversation
in a deeper way.
And one of the things that wasreally important to me, and I
started off the class with it,was acknowledging that we are
very privileged in where we liveright now and how we live.
And the revolution to me isactually being able to take that
(05:58):
privilege and not be apatheticbecause personally, on a very
personal level, I feel, I feelso torn with everything
happening in the world right nowand in our own country, right?
There's so much stuff where it'slike, are we in a twilight zone?
Like, literally, are we in atwilight zone where it is okay
to do things that are justabsolutely wrong and oppressive?
(06:20):
The leadership in 2025 in theUnited States of America is a
convicted felon numerous times,who is a misogynist, who is a
number of things.
Okay, I'm not going to get intopolitics, but you already know
my politics now.
But to not even have a leaderwith decorum and charisma and
(06:43):
simply just being able to besomebody that you can look at in
high regard.
That to me is so representativeof the world we're living in
right now, um, where we'reseeing that all across the
board, all across the world.
I believe that the revolutionnow is that women, marginalized
people, minorities, people ofcolor, anyone who can check even
(07:06):
one box these days.
The revolution is that weabsolutely get to have access to
wealth, access to money, accessto power so that we can make a
difference.
And so to me, being wealthy is arebellion because somebody like
me typically would not be.
(07:26):
And to be able to do it andchange the world, but also not
have to change the world just tohave it because I'm just as
worthy as somebody who canliterally become president with
the lack of credentials.
People with that lack ofcredentials can't even get a
job.
And this person becamepresident.
(07:47):
If it takes so little forcertain people to be at the
highest of places, thenabsolutely talented, caring,
compassionate women like us alsoget to be doing that in whatever
way is meaningful to us.
SPEAKER_05 (08:03):
So I mean, I want to go on a political rabbit hole
with you right now, but I don'tknow that that's what we need to
do today.
But my blood is boiling.
SPEAKER_03 (08:12):
There's so much you just said that I want to unpack.
One thing when I think about themoney stuff that I work through,
and I think a lot of people feelsome guilt at the notion of
having a lot of abundance whenother people don't.
And one thing that I've beentrying to understand or
integrate in myself is that it'svery difficult to be of service
(08:34):
when you're in survival.
Not that you can't be, ofcourse, you show up in the world
and you can be generous ofspirit and make a big difference
in people's lives, of course.
But in order to have the kind ofimpact in the world, like
revolutionary impact, it reallydoes help to have resources.
It really does help to step intoyour power.
SPEAKER_06 (08:56):
And I wonder if you can speak to that.
Yeah, I think it's so important.
So, you know, going back to theclass, it was really interesting
because I shared what I sharedwith you.
And then I was like, who's readyto start the revolution?
This is a revolution.
Because we can't sit back andbecome apathetic.
So I even put in those questionslike, how do we get to be
(09:17):
well-resourced, right?
How do we move towards thingsthat will keep us
well-resourced, that will giveus power, that will give us
money?
How do we do that when, yes,like you said, we're feeling so
bad when others don't havethings?
That's a real feeling.
And I want to acknowledge that.
But we can't allow that to letus become apathetic or not be
doing the best that we can do inwho we are.
(09:40):
So this is something I alwaysbelieve we should do.
Be the best at who you are, andlet's be strategic.
Okay, let's be strategic.
I want to dispel the notionbecause what we've seen up until
now in many places is that thosewith money and power tend to be
people that we don't respect orwe don't feel like we want to
(10:03):
become.
When you don't have thatmodeling in front of you, you're
actually creating something newfrom nothing.
And that also starts creatingbelief systems that money is
bad.
Money changes people.
You're going to turn intosomebody who is going to become
this person that you don't wantto be.
And so so many people who are socompassionate and so giving and
(10:28):
can make such a difference endup repelling things away
energetically rather thanallowing themselves to also be
people who get to bewell-resourced so that they can
make a difference.
So being able to talk aboutmoney very frankly, and I'm
happy to do that today in anyway, shape, or form, if that is
a way to open things up, beingable to talk about that and
(10:49):
being able to say, I am worthyof having that.
And it will allow me to do moreof what I want because we do
live in a world that requiresresources, like you said, Jess.
And we can't pretend that it'snot.
We we just can't.
It's not working.
It's actually causing moreproblems with people being too
(11:11):
nice.
And that's why I'm talking aboutgetting that FU money.
I want people to have that F youmoney so that you can literally
do what it is that you want andnot be stuck like a cog in the
wheel or on the hamster wheel,just spinning and spinning and
spinning.
SPEAKER_05 (11:28):
I have been on such a journey with money lately
because I had a great career.
I did very well from day one outof college and was very
successful financially andindependently.
Going from that to a startup hasbeen a real mind fuck for me
because I went fromself-sufficient, earning a great
(11:52):
living, having my independence,to then going for my dreams,
which I know it'll besuccessful.
I'm not, I don't have doubtsabout that.
But there is a point, especiallywhen you are a founder, if you
don't have VC money, you don'thave PE money, you know, where
you're going for your dreams.
And sometimes, a lot of times,like I did it before, where
there was a bridge where therewas something else that I had
(12:14):
that was funneling into.
But now my whole energeticoutput is around this huge
vision.
And so it's been a veryinteresting dynamic in myself
and a great, great healingopportunity around, oh, I'm only
powerful if I'm the one thatmakes the money.
I'm only powerful if I'mindependently wealthy.
(12:38):
I'm only powerful if I don'trely on, in my case, a man to
support me.
And so I'm curious your thoughtson these power dynamics, because
on one hand, you do have powerand freedom when you have money,
but also speak to the rise inthat.
And what else can bring uspower?
(12:58):
What else can bring ussovereignty as we're on our way
to the FU money?
I don't think that our onlypower is when we have money.
I think we all deserve it.
I think we're worthy of it, Ithink we're all capable of it.
It's interesting being in thisplace right now where I'm
reevaluating my self-worth andwhat it means all around money
(13:19):
and getting supported withmoney.
Because for me, money has alwaysbeen freedom.
When I was younger, I was like,well, if I can make money and
get out of the house and no onecan have power over me because
they're not controlling myfinancial decisions, then I am
free and I have power and I'msovereign.
And that's how I got my freedom.
SPEAKER_06 (13:36):
So I'm curious when you're talking about this place
you're in now, there's thisplace of clarity I just want to
get where you're talking aboutnot from somebody else or
something else.
Can you speak to that a bitmore?
Because that is a very nuancedconversation.
SPEAKER_05 (13:54):
So for me, it's like we're funding the business and
we're reliant in this season ofstartup with my husband's
income.
So I am dependent financially inthis season, and that's very new
for me.
I've had these visualizationswhere it's like, I'm not weaker
because I'm learning how to relyon support.
(14:16):
It doesn't take away my power,but so often it does.
When somebody has to rely onsomebody else's money, they
don't get to make the decisions.
They don't get to feel worthy oftheir dreams.
They don't get to feel like theyget to have the things that
bring them joy because it's nottheirs.
I'm interested in thisconversation because it's a
(14:37):
different lens than like, I havethe money, I'm sovereign, I'm
wealthy, I've got this shit.
Like, let's fucking go.
SPEAKER_06 (14:44):
So it's so interesting you bring that up
because I've actually been in asimilar sort of thought myself.
I think it is an interestingconversation when you've
typically been a veryindependent woman who is very
well resourced, right?
You had the independence, youhad the money, you had a certain
lifestyle, you were verysuccessful at what you did.
And now you're in a place whereit's very different, right?
(15:06):
You're relying on somebody else.
There's two things that come tomind.
And the reason I've been in thisplace is because I will say that
for the first time in my life,my partner is making more money
than me.
For the first time in my entirelife.
I think as of last year, Antoniohas surpassed what I'm earning.
And I thought about that becauseI was joking around one day and
(15:28):
I was like, oh, baby, like whatif you just take care of me?
And he's like, Yeah, of course.
And I felt so uncomfortable withthat.
I was like, oh no, no, oh God,no.
There has always been thisassumption that my husband's
made more than me.
And Antonio's my second husband.
It's a really interesting thingbecause I've actually been the
one who's always made moremoney.
I don't talk about it because,you know, societal norms, you're
(15:50):
not trying to like put a man'sbusiness out there, but I'm just
sharing transparently that Ialways have.
I had to actually in this lastyear, as he's making more
because his business is growingand business has been slower.
In the personal growth industry,it has slowed down.
Like, let's be really honest.
So I had to think about am Iokay with somebody providing for
(16:13):
me?
My personal answer was no.
However, when I'm listening toyou, share Melissa, and you're
talking about this.
If I was talking to you as myclient, I would say that is just
an additional source of revenue.
Right now, that is a revenuestream in your life.
And it would be very neutral.
You know, if I was looking onthe outside.
(16:35):
So when I hear you, it's veryneutral.
But I can feel what you'refeeling because I get that.
There feels like where the moneycomes from matters, but from an
energetic perspective, itactually does not matter where
money comes from.
It's just about the flow ofthings.
But there is this importantconversation that you're having
(16:56):
and even I'm having of where dowe feel like we can feel that
sovereignty truly?
SPEAKER_05 (17:04):
I mean, that's a big question.
Well, and it's alsogenerational, you know, it was
the way women have been treated.
It was our expectation to be inthe home, to not earn the money,
to birth babies.
I think a lot of that is thepatriarchy that is ingrained in
us.
Sure.
And it's valid too, becausethere's a lot of people that
choose different paths or giveup their independent wealth and
(17:28):
maybe take care of the family orwhatever that is for you, and
then find themselves in asituation where they're like,
uh-oh, this marriage didn'twork.
Now I don't have my ownindependence.
And so it's interesting becausein the flow of life, in the flow
of the seasonality of our rolesand our identities, it's like
some seasons we're here, we'reon top.
Some seasons we're shiftingthings, taking more space, maybe
(17:51):
shifting our careers.
And there's a fluidity to wealthinside of that.
SPEAKER_06 (17:56):
Yeah, there's absolutely a fluidity.
And one of the things when itcomes to wealth is understanding
what it even means to you.
This conversation is sointeresting because a woman
could be in a phenomenal,wealthy, like her husband makes
a ton of money situation, andshe could not feel wealthy
because she does not have thatindependence.
(18:18):
And then you can have someone,you know, I gave this example.
I have a friend I've known sincewe were in diapers.
Very early on, when we bothgraduated from college, she had
a baby.
I think when she was like 19,she got married young and she
had a baby young.
And she decided to live a verydifferent life, meaning, like,
she didn't get that corporatejob, she didn't do a lot of what
(18:39):
we were doing.
But she lived this incrediblyfree life.
Like she has hiked all acrossthe country.
And she's gone to so manyamazing parks and met amazing
people and homeschooled herdaughter, and she lived this
very alternate lifestyle fromlike the status quo.
But to me, she's lived thewealthiest life because she's
(19:00):
been so free.
She's never talked to me about,oh, I wish I had more money.
She just finds a way to makeeverything work.
And I've always really admiredthat.
So also, wealth is not about theamount of money, it's about what
it means to you, you know?
So it's not about just amassingmore wealth.
I actually think she's livingthat F you money life because
(19:22):
she never actually got one ofthose nine to five jobs where
she was supposed to work 40hours a week, but was working 60
hours and chained to thiscubicle.
So that's what I think is mostimportant is what does wealth
really mean to you?
Even F you money, what does thatmean to you?
And, you know, Melissa, in yourcase, because you brought it up,
(19:44):
you're creating that.
You're already in it, right?
You're doing something.
You left corporate, you left,you're creating it.
And now are you willing to see,well, this is how the universe
is providing for me right now.
I may not love it, but it is away that it's coming to me so
that I can do this thing thatreally feels like the thing I
want to do versus beingfinancially independent, which
(20:06):
you could do anytime again.
What's what's really importantto understand when it comes to
money and the questions you'reasking, which are really
interesting because they'rerelated to identity, everybody's
money journey is actually reallyspecific.
And there's a lot ofcookie-cutter things that are
out there.
I always tell people look, youcan go out and you can Google
(20:29):
how to invest, have an emergencysavings account.
The financial literacy piecesare actually all out there.
Okay.
And if I were to just boil themdown, you know, if somebody is
looking for a framework rightnow, what I would actually say
is make sure that you areinvesting money.
Even if you are somebody who iscurrently in debt right now,
(20:50):
also still put money aside tostart investing.
The investment options areinvesting into your retirement
and then also investing intosomething that you could pull
out within the next, you know,within the next 10 years, let's
say.
So you want to be looking atalso investing while paying down
debt because a lot of peopledon't talk about debt.
But I'll tell you from myexperience, the majority of
(21:13):
people, vast majority of people,are in debt.
My recommendation is always topay that down.
That is going to really supportyou.
So these are just two reallysimple things that if you can
begin to pay down your debt,that will snowball and start
paying itself off.
And if you can also be investingat the same time, that will also
be like a snowball and willstart to grow for you.
(21:35):
So these are two just likereally basic financial literacy
things.
And we can go into more detailabout that.
But what I want to move beyondactually the cookie cutter
things is the money journey isactually really specific to you.
It means something to you, liketo every single person, the
identity question exists.
(21:55):
The question of like, well, howcan it actually come to me
exists?
And I am over here trying tothink, how can I distill it in a
way that can go out to like amass audience?
And what I'll say is this at thecore, money it can come in a
(22:16):
number of ways.
So let's not actually tie ouridentity to where it's coming
from.
If we're looking at money as atool for exchange and a tool
that resources us, then let'snot give it that extra power to
also be something that definesour identity.
Money will never be the definerof your identity, no matter how
(22:40):
much power we give to it.
And I'm just gonna be honest,because we do give power to it.
Why?
Because of the stories that wegrew up with, right?
Our own feeling of our identity,our own feeling of worth.
And even I think with all threeof us, we're all very self-aware
of ourselves and we're stillhaving these questions around
(23:00):
money and identity.
But from a money mindsetperspective, I invite everyone
to just let it go.
However, it's coming to you,that's just the way it's coming
to you in this season, andthat's great.
And we get to celebrate that.
It doesn't mean anything aboutyou one way or another.
I think that's major.
SPEAKER_03 (23:21):
I just want to just pipe that I think that's a
really major statement to make.
SPEAKER_05 (23:26):
Yeah, I agree.
SPEAKER_03 (23:27):
Because it neutralizes it so much.
And I think we have, especiallyas women and feminist women and
empowered women, we do tie itinto identity because I think
that's what we've been fed.
SPEAKER_02 (23:39):
Yeah.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (23:41):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (23:42):
Yeah.
And to me too, it's all alsobeen very hierarchical.
And I I think there was asubconscious thing that was
running in my family around thisof you're better than me.
You're smarter than me, likemeasuring each other up in a
lineup.
And those that have more actualmoney, I know wealth is a
(24:03):
spectrum.
But that is it's an interestingenergy.
And I would love for you to diginto the energetics of money
that we might be missing.
Like when you're saying it'sactually neutral, it doesn't
mean anything, but we make itmean so much.
So much.
And it's interesting too,because I live in a pretty
(24:24):
well-off area.
And a lot of the women are, Imean, the men all work too, but
a lot of the women are makingmore money.
And there's a lot of nicethings, and you're like, oh,
they're buying a second houseand they're buying this.
And then you're like, shit, wegotta remodel our house again.
We need new furniture.
We gotta buy the, you know, it'slike you start to the comparison
game.
So I would love for you to diginto the energetics around this
(24:46):
and help us neutralize money.
SPEAKER_06 (24:50):
Oh my gosh, yeah.
That's so juicy because you knowwhat?
It's not just that we're doingthis hierarchical thing.
Everybody's doing thishierarchical thing to each
other, too.
But don't talk about it.
SPEAKER_05 (25:02):
So that's what's happening everywhere.
Like, don't fucking talk aboutit.
Like, people are like buyinghouse.
They're like, I don't want youto know what I'm like, the what
you paid for your house is gonnabe on the MLS.
Like, we're gonna know.
You know, not a three milliondollar house.
You know, but it's so tacky.
Don't talk about money.
But meanwhile, it's like runningthe show for everybody.
SPEAKER_06 (25:22):
A hundred percent.
And who is saying not to talkabout money, by the way?
It's women and people saying itto women.
This is so a part of thepatriarchy, right?
Women shouldn't talk aboutmoney.
Do you think that men are not?
They are.
They are.
Not all of them, right?
Like, I don't want to lump themall together.
But a lot of the men who have alot of money are talking about
(25:42):
money because that's just normaland natural, right?
SPEAKER_05 (25:44):
Yeah.
Yeah, it totally is.
I I saw this post the other daythat was something I was
triggered by it because it waslike the boys' club, the old
boys' club, or whatever you callit, is kind of on to something.
Not in like it's okay or theyshould do that, but it's like,
what if we started to bring someof those conversations to the
surface?
Yeah.
To help each other out.
(26:05):
You know, there's this sacrednepotism of the old boys' club,
they're hiring each other,they're having these insider
conversations.
And as women, we need to bedoing some of that too.
SPEAKER_06 (26:14):
We do.
And, you know, I actually don'tthink that there's anything
wrong with that.
I think that's natural.
If we're a group of friends andan opportunity came and I knew,
like, hey, Jess, you're gonna begreat for that, wouldn't I want
to tell you that?
That's why it's important for usto be in more powerful
positions, to be talking, to begrowing together and elevating
because it brings everyonetogether.
(26:35):
It really does.
And there is this book I read along time ago called Secrets of
the Millionaire Mind.
Have you read this?
By T.
Har Becker.
So, one thing I loved about thebook, and I'm sure if I read it
today, I would be like, I don'tlove it so much anymore.
I have a feeling, but at thetime I learned a lot because it
was about money mindset andthinking about things in a
(26:56):
different way.
The reason I'm bringing this upis because when I was reading
the book, I had gone to thisdinner party with a group of
friends, and I was like, hey,y'all, I'm reading this book.
It's called Secrets of theMillionaire Mind.
I'm thinking about starting thisMillionaires Club.
Some people are like, What isthat?
And I'm like, I don't know.
But let's just start it.
And it's gonna be a place wherewe talk about money and we're
(27:16):
gonna talk about becoming rich.
And some people thought, like, Iwas, you know, doing one of my
wild ideas again, and they justkind of ignored me.
But some of my friends werelike, Yes, we want to be a part
of that.
So I started this WhatsApp groupcalled Millionaires Club.
And it was literally just thesame group of friends that
typically hung out together allthe time.
But we started talking aboutmoney, it became more open, and
(27:39):
everyone in that group becamemillionaires.
Can you add me to that test?
Can I ultimately add to that?
So I'm actually starting amillionaires club in January.
Yes, you can come in based onthis promise.
And it's just, it's kind ofcrazy because it's not even that
we were like, let's exchangestock tips or something.
It was simply talking aboutbeing millionaires.
(28:01):
It was simply putting it out onthe table and starting to have
different conversations.
Oh, Jess, do you have aquestion?
SPEAKER_03 (28:10):
It's not a question, it's just a it's just a thought
that came through.
You know, there's the shame ofnot having, but there's also
shame in claiming that I wantit.
Yes.
Even putting into words, I wantto be a millionaire makes you
feel like you have to apologizeor justify or explain it, or you
know, there's okay, but when Isay one millionaire, for me, I'm
(28:31):
like, yeah, I want that shit.
SPEAKER_05 (28:33):
And you're like, you know, it's just so interesting,
just like the difference.
But that's not true.
SPEAKER_06 (28:40):
You want it to be in too, Jess?
SPEAKER_03 (28:42):
Yeah, no, I want to, I want to be in it.
I'm just, I'm just realizingthere's this undercurrent of
yes, I want it, and I know why Iwant it, but the perception or
how does it make other peoplefeel, or what does that say
about me is also lurking theresomewhere.
Uh yes.
SPEAKER_05 (28:59):
We're getting in this text thread if it's the
last thing we do.
I've never wanted to belong sobad to this text thread.
Speaking of belonging, please.
SPEAKER_06 (29:13):
I mean, isn't it so fun?
Like, isn't this energy fun?
Could you imagine talking topeople like this about money?
Does it feel fun and light andgood?
And you could be like, oh myGod, y'all, I had my
million-dollar year.
You'd be like, hi five, goodgirl.
You know, like that's the way itgets to be.
It actually gets to be thatsimple.
(29:34):
It really gets to be that simplethat we start celebrating that
we want money, that we desire,you know, we get to start
encouraging each other.
And it just also gets to becomenormal.
SPEAKER_07 (29:51):
But how do we do that?
SPEAKER_03 (29:57):
We all be away.
And how do we disinvest?
Entangle from those beliefsystems, or if we did grow up
with scarcity, or if we did growup without that literacy, and
there's all this subconsciousconditioning around it, how do
you begin to unravel thosethreads in order to actually
believe it's possible?
SPEAKER_06 (30:16):
Yeah, so you start somewhere, right?
I know Jess, you're saying thiswas my story.
This is everybody's story.
Everybody has grown up inscarcity in some way, shape, or
form.
My father, he grew up in Indiain a village with no shoes and
one outfit and walked to schoolfor a mile every single day with
(30:36):
no shoes.
I heard this story all the time.
I had to finish the food in myplate because someone across the
world didn't have food, and thatused to be him.
And that could have been me,right?
That could have also been me.
This is my story, right?
So the scarcity stories allexist.
The subconscious thread exists,but it's so specific to
(30:59):
everyone.
That's why you have to startsomewhere.
And there's no financialliteracy.
There was none.
I mean, not in the US.
There was nothing.
And actually, we live in asociety.
We live in a society thatthrives on people being chained
to consumerism.
There is a great animation docushort thing called The Story of
(31:24):
Stuff.
And it is phenomenal if anybodywants to take a watch.
And it really talks about theliteral wheel that we have been
placed in to just work, feel badabout ourselves, spend money, go
work more to pay for the thingswe bought.
And it's a cycle.
And then that stuff just goes toa landfill.
(31:47):
So her focus is a lot aboutconsumerism.
But why do we have a system sobased on debt?
Debt will shackle you.
That is what it is meant to do.
It is doing its job.
We get to open our eyes to that.
So that's the first thing.
The second thing is you're notalone and understanding that
you're not, and then taking thefirst step for you.
(32:09):
So I want to get to your how.
When we're getting honest about,okay, we know that we're already
up against a whole system thatwants to keep us in a certain
place in a certain way.
The next thing is to get honestabout our own stories, our own
money stories.
And something really importantthat every person can do is
(32:30):
starting to understand what ismy pattern when it comes to
money and wealth.
I'm going to share two things.
One is relationship and one isthe pattern.
So everybody has a pattern.
The pattern is typicallylearned.
Okay.
So if you think back to whatyour family story was, I'll give
(32:51):
one example.
Was it feast or famine?
I'm thinking about this oneclient, this beautiful client I
had.
And when she was growing up, herfamily didn't have steady
income.
They would have these gigs andthen they would have money, and
then that was enough at thetime, and then they would have
these periods of famine.
So that's how she had beenliving her whole life feast and
(33:12):
famine.
Some people may have been goodfor a long time, and then all of
a sudden something happened intheir life, the shoe dropped,
and everything went away.
And so they live their lifealways believing that the shoe
is going to drop.
So there's different patterns.
And when you can identify whatyour pattern is, you'll start to
(33:33):
see this energetic wealth spherethat you live in.
For me, I lived in a home wheremy parents constantly fought
about money because they justdid not have enough money.
They were just trying to putfood on the table.
But what added an extra layer isI shared about my dad coming
(33:53):
from a village, but my mom grewup with so much wealth.
She lived in a beautiful homewith a courtyard and servants.
And her father was the directorof agriculture in this one state
in India.
They went to a Catholic school.
They were very privileged.
But he was murdered when she was15 years old.
(34:24):
She knew she had to do whateverit took to make sure they were
taken care of.
And as every daughter got oldenough, they were married off,
married off, married off.
And my dad seemed like a greatsuitor because he had come to
America.
But their upbringings werecompletely different.
That came into my household as achild, and that created this
(34:48):
weird energy in me where I canreally hold well, but I can't.
Like I feel bad about it.
I feel shame about it.
SPEAKER_03 (34:58):
So interesting because both of their stories
carry so much pain, even thoughthey came from such different
circumstances.
Yes.
So no matter whether you'rewealthy or you have scarcity,
there's still pain that weassociate with money in various
ways.
SPEAKER_06 (35:14):
Yeah.
And so they, you know, theywould fight about it and they it
would just it caused me to feellike, well, I never want to
worry about money.
Then I spent my whole life beinglike, well, I'm just gonna set
everything up, and here's all myspreadsheets, and I'm gonna do
this thing.
And, you know, it manifests sodifferently for every single
person.
So when you can identify yourpattern, and I'm curious if
(35:35):
anything came up for either ofyou, when you can identify that
pattern, then you can start tochange the story.
SPEAKER_03 (35:44):
I'm curious for you though, because I know that you
just said that you had thispattern of like, I can hold it,
but I can't.
But then you said, so I wantedto have ease with it and
freedom, and I did all thesethings.
But there must have beensomething in between there that
you learned, or what was it thatyou needed to develop or shift
in order to make a completelydifferent approach possible for
(36:06):
you?
SPEAKER_06 (36:06):
So for me personally, in my journey, what
shifted it for me was believingthat I could treat myself like a
VIP, that I could actually spendon myself, that I could invest
in things because I did thingseven though I was doing the
right financial things, quoteunquote, like I was doing the
(36:27):
right financial things.
I was living in a scarcity thatI couldn't spend on myself.
It was always like save, save,save, save, say, don't do
anything, don't buy anything.
For me, realizing that I cantreat myself like a VIP, that I
can spend on myself wasabsolutely earth-shattering.
And there were actually a lot ofsteps in between.
I know you're asking for thatthing, but this is why I'm
(36:49):
saying you have to start byknowing what it is for you
because I needed to startspending on myself.
I needed to start believing thatI was taken care of outside of
what was in a spreadsheet.
I needed to believe that if Iwanted something, I could have
(37:14):
it.
And I didn't actually believethat for myself.
It was it's so much.
SPEAKER_05 (37:20):
Oh my gosh, tell me.
Well, it's been such a pendulum.
And I wouldn't say that I neverspent on myself, but I was
always really safe andcalculated and responsible.
Certain percentages went hereand certain percentages went
here.
And I looked at it, I was veryresponsible.
And there was no excessiveness,there was no unconscious
(37:42):
spending.
Like it was very calculated.
And then I became a mom and Imerged finances.
And my husband comes from a verydifferent background to me.
And I remember when I started tolike spend more money on myself.
I think I swung the pendulumkind of far in the other
(38:03):
direction, to be honest, when Igot into like personal growth.
I do too.
I do too.
What if I wanted a whole newwardrobe?
What if I did that?
So I started to spend a lot onmyself.
And then I was like, you don'tget to tell me that I can't
spend on myself.
I get to spend on my, you know,but the pendulum went like way
in the other direction.
(38:23):
And so there is this middleground that I have never had
training in.
We'll just call it experiencetraining.
That is both yes and yes, set itaside, be responsible, look at
the things, but also like be aVIP.
So I think the pendulum swingingsomewhere back in the middle is
kind of what's actually beenhappening in my life and that
(38:44):
part of the lesson that I'mlearning.
But as you were talking, I waslike, ooh, this really
resonates.
And being able to like, yeah,live in both worlds where
treating yourself like a VIPdoesn't mean you're
irresponsible or unconsciousabout it.
It's like you're actually justdoing nice things for yourself.
SPEAKER_06 (39:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It is.
I mean, just I keep thinkingabout your question too, about
the how, you know, and it's likeI I am an engineer.
So I'm like, I'm a problemsolver.
What is the answer?
What is the answer?
Something has to shift.
And I really believe that at thecore is knowing your patterns,
believing that you're worthy ofhaving money until you believe
(39:23):
that you are worthy of it.
Then things start from there andhas to start from that belief
shifting, along with thetactical things too.
But knowing that pattern isreally important because
breaking that will affect you inall parts of your life.
SPEAKER_03 (39:40):
I really like that you have made the energetics of
money an individual thing, ifthat makes sense.
Because I think when people talkabout the energy of money, what
we leave out is that can be sucha personal relationship.
Is it because of the story thatwe project onto it?
Is that Yes, I think it's that.
SPEAKER_06 (39:59):
That's where again, let's go back to the neutrality.
You know, I think that if we canjust look at money as neutral,
it will take a lot of thingsoff.
But if it is reflecting backsomething to you, then look at
that.
What is it reflecting back?
That's why identifying thepattern is important.
Let me tell you the relationshippiece too.
So we do put a lot onto money.
(40:22):
And if we liken money to arelationship, okay.
So you can think of it as alover, a friend, or an enemy,
right?
It can be really anything, butlooking at your relationship
with money as though it was anentity.
So if money was an entity, and Ialways do this for money, I
don't know.
SPEAKER_05 (40:40):
My money is like a sexy bitch.
Yeah.
I don't know.
I'm like curvy, sexy bitch.
Jessica Rabbit.
Oh, we should all get likelittle Jessica Rabbit things for
our desks and be like, this ismy money sexy bit.
unknown (40:59):
I know.
SPEAKER_06 (41:00):
My sexy bit time.
Because I'm always doing thisevery time I talk about your
relationship, the entity ofmoney.
So I'm picturing Jessica Rabbitlike unfolding between your
hands.
So when you look at money as anentity, so right now, if each of
you thought of money as anentity, okay?
SPEAKER_02 (41:18):
Yeah, oh, I like it.
Okay.
SPEAKER_06 (41:21):
We take this stuff seriously.
Yeah.
I love this.
So if you think of money as anentity today, okay, without any
judgment, what is yourrelationship with money?
And oh, Jess already knows.
I'll give some examples in casesomebody is like, well, what
(41:42):
does that mean?
So is your relationship withmoney controlling?
Is it fearful?
Is it uh oh god, I'm just gonnaput my head in the sand, I don't
want to look.
Is it uh unhealthy?
Is it I can't even think.
(42:03):
I've given some examples now.
So I'd love to hear from both ofyou.
What is your relationship withmine?
Mixed messagey, a littleconfused.
SPEAKER_05 (42:11):
Mine, mine I saw like a giant, was like a big
golden tower far away from me.
So what I what I felt was likeoutside of me.
SPEAKER_06 (42:21):
Ooh, and far away.
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (42:25):
Okay, Jess, coming back to you.
Melissa gave a little side liptwitch.
Don't judge me, Jessica Rabbit.
SPEAKER_06 (42:33):
Jessica Roberts coming for you.
Okay.
SPEAKER_05 (42:36):
And can I say one other thing about that?
Because we already brought uppolitics.
So I'm gonna bring up religionreal quick.
It almost feels to me like whenI used to believe that religion,
God, spirit was like a man inthe sky in the cloud out here.
And then I had to bring it inhere.
It actually felt almost like thesame energetics of bringing
spirit into soul, bringing moneyinto the body.
(42:58):
It felt very similar to me.
SPEAKER_06 (43:01):
And when you thought about money as an entity,
honestly, it was that, right?
The far away, the thing overthere, the thing that you'll get
later.
Oh my gosh.
Yes.
Okay.
Okay.
And Jess, you said mixedmessagey.
SPEAKER_03 (43:14):
Tell me about that.
I think because I would say thatsome of the deepest lessons of
the last few years around moneyfor me have been around
receiving.
Like really believing I deserveand receiving and also trusting
that it's there, that it'savailable, and I've been tested
in that over and over again, butit always shows up.
(43:36):
And then there's this other sidewhere, in reaction, I think, to
certain aspects of my childhood,I tend to be overly generous and
overcompensate for certainfeelings of scarcity with
indulgence at times.
Um, and then there's anotheraspect of being avoidant of the
(43:57):
literacy around it.
So I think there's all of thesethings happening simultaneously.
And I'm like, well, that's allover the place.
You know, there isn't really oneclear, consistent, healthy
dynamic going on.
SPEAKER_06 (44:13):
Yeah.
And and imagine for both of you,if it was an actual person,
let's say it was a loverrelationship and you're thinking
about what just came up for bothof you.
Is that the relationship thatyou would want to be in?
SPEAKER_03 (44:25):
No, but I feel like the problem is on my end.
unknown (44:29):
You know?
SPEAKER_03 (44:30):
Well, like, why don't I know my role in the
relationship?
You're being so hard onyourself.
SPEAKER_05 (44:37):
You had a thumbs up bubble in the meantime.
SPEAKER_06 (44:40):
But did you give the thumbs up?
Where's the thumbs up comingfrom?
SPEAKER_05 (44:42):
No, I just didn't.
It just showed up.
SPEAKER_03 (44:46):
It's such an interesting universe to reflect
that I'm being hard on myselfbecause I think this is the one
area where I am.
Yeah.
I can't even think of anotherarea where I still feel that
kind of tension.
SPEAKER_06 (44:59):
And so that's something to explore.
Because even when I'm like, ifyou were to think about that as
a relationship, if you werewith, let's say, like you were
with a partner that you kind ofjust always felt a little bit
weird around, right?
Like a little bit uncomfortable.
Like I can't really say thething, right?
Like you want to have theconversation, but you can't.
Um, you're okay when they giveyou stuff, but then you feel
(45:22):
like you've got to give it away.
Do you see like how if this wasin a relationship with the
person, like that's the energyI'm feeling?
Is that like kind of the waythat you feel?
Yeah, I hear what you're saying.
For sure.
I hear what you're saying.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Start to actually think about itas an entity, as a person now.
Like now bring it to a person.
(45:43):
So if Melissa, for you, if youthink of this faraway tower as a
person, what is thatrelationship that you're in with
that person?
SPEAKER_05 (45:52):
Yeah, it's like inaccessible, hard to get to,
not mine.
Those are kind of the mainthings outside of me.
Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_06 (46:04):
And if that's a person and they're inaccessible
and hard to get to, what are youwanting with them?
Are you like trying to be like,but look at me over here?
Or you're like, oh, I can't eventalk to them.
What's happening in yourrelationship with that person?
SPEAKER_05 (46:19):
It's like getting to you feels like so much work.
Feels so overwhelming.
It feels like a lot of time,attention.
It feels like you are gonna needa lot from me, and I don't have
that to give.
And so then you don't give it.
(46:40):
Or I'm like, next week we'lllook at these things.
And I'm starting to do more ofit.
Like I, you know, I hired abookkeeper and I ops person is
making me look at it because I'mt telling her to make me look at
it.
But it was like when I had theshift into a new season around
it of more output, I was like,I'm doing something wrong, even
(47:01):
though I'm not.
And I don't want to look at itbecause it feels shamey.
SPEAKER_06 (47:06):
Okay.
So isn't it interesting to thinkabout money as an entity and as
a person and as a relationship,what it is currently.
And what you can do with that,I'll just add mine to the mix
too.
For me, mine was controlling.
I was trying to control all thetime.
If I just controlled you, thenwe're gonna do this together.
(47:28):
But I wanted to be this powercouple with money.
And money was literally beingcrushed under me, right?
Until I let go.
So then what you can do is youcan start thinking about what
relationship you want.
A beautiful thing to do is towrite a letter.
Write a letter to money.
Wow.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_03 (47:48):
I want you to come back and we all read letters to
each other.
SPEAKER_06 (47:51):
Oh my gosh, we'll share my letter.
It's so interesting.
So yeah, write a letter tomoney, to the current
relationship.
Because one thing that's reallyimportant is that you can't live
in a place where you'repretending anything.
So it's not about like, well,tell me what the best way to
think is about money.
No, no, no, no, no.
(48:12):
You're gonna be so honest.
You already said yourrelationship now.
And that's beautiful because yougot really honest.
You're gonna write that letterto that current relationship and
then let money know what is thenew relationship I would like
with you?
What would I like it to be?
Because this isn't working foreither of us.
SPEAKER_05 (48:29):
I feel like I need to do this with my husband too.
SPEAKER_03 (48:34):
You know what's so interesting to me is we've been
doing this podcast now for awhile, and we have had some
hella vulnerable conversationsgoing into the crevices of our
soul.
And this is the most vulnerableI've ever felt.
Oh.
SPEAKER_05 (48:50):
Isn't that interesting?
Interesting, isn't it?
Interesting.
Well, it's not I I'm thinking ofeven just the conversation we
had about sexuality on one ofone of the conversations we had.
And when you're talking, I knowthere's a lot of like tactical
hows, but there's so much powerlike in getting, I'm beating the
(49:11):
dead horse around community allthe time.
But when we can talk aboutthings that feel so shameful, so
taboo, it becomes normal.
You're not judged, it getsneutralized, and you can do this
on a regular basis inside of acommunity.
It's how we shift it.
Because, you know, the firsttime you have the conversation
feels like shit in your body,and then you don't die, and then
(49:34):
you have it again and you haveit again and you have it again,
and eventually you have power.
You're in a totally newrelationship with it, but it has
to establish that safety aroundit.
SPEAKER_07 (49:44):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (49:44):
And that's why when we don't can't talk about it,
don't talk about it, aren'tallowed to talk about it, we can
never transmute it.
You can't because it's likeshoved in a like I think Beth
called it like a critter overhere in a closet.
It's like put that critter inthe closet and don't look at it.
Yeah.
So it's just fascinating to me.
And when I look at every area ofmy life that I used to feel like
(50:05):
shit about, and now I'm totallyopen about it.
The difference has been open,vulnerable conversations on a
consistent basis with people whoare safe who can hold it with
me.
Agreed.
unknown (50:15):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_05 (50:16):
Everybody join the Nova.
Just kidding.
SPEAKER_06 (50:18):
Yes.
Do you join the Nova?
Why are you?
SPEAKER_05 (50:21):
That is a total yes.
Right.
But that's the power, and it'sall of them.
You know, I was talking withJazzy the other day.
Like, what are all theconversations that women want to
be having that we're not havingor we're not allowed to have, or
it's shameful you're notsupposed to talk about that,
including religion, includingpolitics, money, sexuality,
including all these things,because that's how we stay out
(50:44):
of our power around all of them.
Yes.
And I'm so glad you're talkingabout it, Jess.
SPEAKER_03 (50:48):
Me too.
Yeah.
But I think it says somethingabout how we all have so much
personal attachment and meaningthat we've given it.
And for many of us, it's feltlike it's held power over us at
various times in our lives andit's so embedded in the
patriarchy.
Like I just think it's a reallybig, deep topic, but it doesn't
seem like it would be becauseit's just money.
(51:11):
Like it's just it, you know, andyet it holds a lot of meaning in
our lives, right?
SPEAKER_06 (51:16):
It does, yeah.
And I'll I'll tell you somethingjust on the inside is now, I
work with so many women at alllevels.
And it's so interesting to meetthe consistency between the
feelings of shame and feelingalone and feeling like I'm the
only one.
And oh my God, I'm like, I'mgonna tell you this, but don't
(51:38):
tell anyone.
And sometimes I want to be likeif we were just all open about
it, we're all kind of feelingthe same way, and in a very like
our own unique blend of things.
Money is so interesting in thatwhat I've learned over time with
my wealth coaching is thatoriginally it started because I
had some entrepreneur friendswho just needed help with what
do I do with my money andincrease my profit and things.
(52:00):
And I was like, oh, okay, let'ssit with this spreadsheet.
And we would do all that.
But as I started talking to eachof them, what started coming out
was the underlying belief andallowing them to see that money
is neutral, that you're doing alot better than you think.
I want to tell you, you reallyare, because no one's gonna tell
you that, but I know it.
(52:20):
After seeing so many women'slike literal finances, you're
doing a lot better than youthink.
You're so much closer than youthink.
And also ultimately, the work isthe beliefs, it is the
energetics.
But it doesn't take a lot.
It doesn't take a lot to do thework.
It's about looking at it headon, being honest about it.
(52:43):
Write this letter.
This is a great exercise.
Start that path and don't go atit alone.
Find a community like the Novawhere you can talk about it.
Come to somebody trusted likemyself, or find somebody in your
life that you can talk to aboutit.
But you get to be wealthy.
You just do, period.
(53:05):
And the money aspect is actuallyone of the easiest things to
work on, even though it feelslike, uh, you know, once you do
break through that, yes, thingschange across the board.
SPEAKER_03 (53:19):
Thank you, Shazia.
I'm so happy that you came back.
And I know that we have to wrapup, but yeah, just one tiny
little question before you go,just to circle back.
What are you finding in thequiet?
SPEAKER_06 (53:32):
Oh my gosh, Jessie, you asked such good questions.
Oh, gosh.
You know, what I'm finding inthe quiet is that I'm really
good where I'm at, and I get toaccept it.
I've had a lifelong journey of alot of hardship, which I know a
(53:53):
lot of people have had.
And I've actually found thatit's been harder for me to
accept and lean into thegoodness and the greatness and
the celebration of my life.
That has been more challengingfor me than to actually be
worried about the things thatare not going well.
(54:14):
And so in the quiet, I've beenspending a lot of time being
like, I'm good.
And I'm present to it.
SPEAKER_03 (54:22):
Thank you, Shassia.
SPEAKER_05 (54:25):
I love you, Shazia.
SPEAKER_06 (54:27):
I'd love you guys to come back and we'll read our
letters.
We should do a letter reading.
Maybe we'll do something atNova.
SPEAKER_05 (54:34):
Well, I have some ideas, Brewing, for the ush.
I am on the same page with you.
All right.
Thank you.
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