In this deeply healing and electrifying episode I sit down with my pod sisters for The Shameless Woman Panel — a raw, truth-telling conversation about shame, womanhood, embodiment, belonging, and the power of speaking our stories out loud.
What unfolds is a multi-layered, soul-stirring exploration of how shame begins in childhood, compounds across years, and quietly shapes how women show up in the world — and more importantly, how we break free.
Through personal stories, humor, spiritual wisdom, somatic tools, journaling practices, intuitive self-talk, sensual reclamation, and powerful “shame interception,” this panel shows what it looks like when women stop hiding and start shining.
Power Sentences (For Any Woman Stuck in Shame)
Each panelist closes with a one-sentence blessing:
Casey:
“I love you. I see you. I hear you. Your story matters, and I’m here to celebrate you all the way through it.”
Jen:
“You’re not alone, and you deserve love — and you deserve to pursue whatever makes you come alive.”
Tracy:
“Love yourself, know yourself, and don’t let anyone tell you who you are — and share your story.”
Kena:
“Name it, say it out loud, and shake it out of your body with music, movement, and pleasure.”
Dana:
“Get in community, because shame cannot survive storytelling, connection, and women rising together.”
Connect with my pod sisters & Support them:
Jen Chambers:https://www.instagram.com/j_b_chambers/
Tracy Hill:https://www.instagram.com/abeautifulfix/
Kena Siu: https://www.instagram.com/midlifebutterfly/
Dana Hunter-Fradella:https: https://www.instagram.com/girls.who.recover/
You can find me at:
https://www.instagram.com/cataton/
https://www.facebook.com/casey.taton/
You can find what sparks me at:
https://www.facebook.com/share/g/1AgeRtyojY/
https://www.instagram.com/lmbdcelebrations/
Music by: Jason and Ashley Scheufler
Artwork by: https://www.instagram.com/graphx_ink/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:09):
Hey friends.
Welcome to the Enter Sparkpodcast.
I'm your host, Casey Caton.
If you're looking to hearstories of transformation and
personal growth, this podcast isfor you.
My guest and I will be sharingthose sparking moments that has
changed the mental living a morefulfilling authentic life.
I'm so excited for you to heareach unique story.
(00:29):
So sit back, relax, and let'sget started.
Hey friends.
Welcome back to the Enter Specpodcast.
I'm your host, Casey Taton.
Today is a special episode withmy pod sisters, and we are
(00:52):
talking about a very, verypowerful topic, shame, how we
shame ourselves, how we holdonto shame, and.
The she that we've carried withus throughout our lives.
I wanna thank Dana Hunter Fela,the host of The Girls Who
Recover podcast.
(01:13):
She's gonna be leading usthrough this, and you'll also
hear my other pod sisters, TracyHill, Kana, Sue and Jen Chambers
am just gonna jump right inbecause this is a great
conversation and I hope that youjust listen with an open heart,
open body, and open mind.
And see how it resonates withyou.
(01:36):
Hello, gorgeous.
I am so grateful that you'rejoining us for this powerhouse
conversation about the shamelesswoman because shame is something
that every single one of us, aswomen knows intimately and also
one of the hardest things tospeak about.
(01:58):
So I'm offering so much love andappreciation for our gorgeous
panelists who are here today tolead us in conversation around
the dream of the shamelesswoman.
And before we start, I want todo a couple of things so that we
can settle into like, what is,what do we mean by shame and
(02:19):
what does shame actually mean?
And I wanna bring in the energyand spirit of shame researcher
and ultimate goddess BreneBrown.
And she has an incredibleepisode on shame and
accountability, and I will linkthat in the show notes.
But pulling from some of thecore concepts that Brene teaches
(02:39):
about shame, I wanna speak to acouple of parts of it.
So let's give shame adefinition, shall we?
And uh, panelists, I will putthis in the chat just so you, we
are having a shared workingdefinition of what are we
actually talking about when wetalk about shame?
So this is straight from BreneBrown, and she says that shame
(03:01):
is the intensely painful feelingor experience of believing that
we are flawed.
And therefore unworthy of love,belonging, and connection.
So that has a lot of energybehind it.
So I'm gonna take a breath withyou and we're gonna read it
again.
(03:22):
Shame is the intensely painfulfeeling or experience of
believing that we are flawed andtherefore unworthy of love,
belonging, and disconnection,and con and connection.
And I wanna come outta my seatand do an Onfi dance around
that.
Because the mission of girls whorecover is to, at the core of
(03:45):
it, help women transform theirMA biggest setbacks into their
most gorgeous comebacks.
And shame is one of theheaviest, most powerful weapons
that gets in the way of doingthat.
So I feel so called forward tohave this conversation about
shame.
And we will continue to talkabout shame until the cows come
home, or until every woman inthe world can walk around
(04:08):
remembering that she is worthyof love, she is the belonging
and she is connection.
We're not just worthy of thosethings.
We are those things.
And so oftentimes two, these twowords get mixed up.
So I wanna clarify thedifference between guilt and
shame.
(04:29):
If you're a part of the recoverycommunity, you're probably
familiar with the phrase guilt,shame, and remorse, which is
what we all walk in with, uh,when we are approaching the
transformation of setback tocomeback, but to differentiate
guilt and shame.
Shame is, I am bad and guilt isI did something bad.
(04:50):
And so I wanna bring it to theelementary school level.
I have three daughters, youprobably know this one's five,
one's eight, and one's 10.
And they all have thesebeautiful, gorgeous, expansive
imaginations.
My second daughter has thebiggest imagination, so
sometimes what comes out of hermouth is very imaginative.
And we've had this beautifulconversation in the car where
(05:12):
I'll say, Audrey, I'm not surethat's true.
Is that true?
And she's like, yeah, it's true.
And then my older daughter,who's conscious mind is
developed and she's got a sassysense of self and she says,
Audrey, you're a liar.
And I'm like, whoa, hold on.
Hold on one second because youare or I am, implies that you
(05:33):
are bad or you are unworthy oryou are disconnected.
So I've gotten up on the box andsaid like, we got to be mindful
of what comes after the great Iam.
But we paused that conversationand I said, no, no, no, no, no,
we're not.
So Audrey don't receive that.
Instead, Audrey is a beautifulchild of the infinite who told a
(05:54):
lie.
You see the difference?
It's not who she is, it's abehavior that she exhibited it.
So I wanna to differentiate thatshame is I am bad.
It's that feeling of.
It's hot for you, right?
Hot.
It sort of washes over you.
I feel it in my chest and mystomach and it's like, oh, I am.
And it's an attachment to whoyou are.
(06:17):
And guilt is, I am a beautifulchild of the infinite and I did
this thing that doesn't alignwith who I am.
And I think we get thoseconfused.
So I wanna set the recordstraight.
Thank you Brene, for helpingwith that because we are here to
have the conversation about whowe actually are and step into
(06:37):
our assignment to be theshameless woman.
So two things she mentions, andthen I'm gonna turn it over and
introduce our panelists isnumber one, we all have shame.
Every single person breathing.
In my opinion, I think womenhave more of it.
That may be because I work witha lot of women and I get to hear
(06:57):
about it all the time.
Uh, if you're a man listening,let us know.
Shame is something everybodyhas.
And the second thing is ain'tnobody like to talk about it.
Nobody likes to, likes to talkabout shame.
So I want to commend two things.
One is my, our guests for beinghere, and two is you for
listening because shame says,how dare you go there.
(07:17):
Don't you dare talk about us.
Don't you doubt, dare tell thetruth.
Don't you dare shine the light.
Then you might remember thatwe're actually all connected,
that we're all the same in manyways, and that we are all on
assignment, which is to love andexperience both compassion and
empathy for each other.
Okay, so we got it.
We got the definition of shame.
(07:39):
We've got the differencebetween.
I am bad and I did somethingbad.
And the last thing I wanna say,because this might be one of the
most important things that youhear, is how we experience
shame.
And guilt often comes down tothe way that we talk to each
ourselves, the way that we talkto ourselves, and the way that
(08:00):
we talk to each other.
But since we talk to ourselvesthe most, I wanna bring it back
to we are in, I'm gonna pick upmy wand.
Your wand, meaning your agency,your awareness, your
responsibility for you, and yourfeelings and your emotions, and
your experience of life in theworld.
And so it's great news that itcomes down to the way that we
(08:20):
talk to ourselves, because guesswho can change that?
You got it?
Okay.
So without further ado.
I am, it is my great pleasure tointroduce our, our shameless
woman panelists, who a, alsohappen to be, uh, some of my
closest and dearest friends.
We have shared a mastermindtogether, uh, for over a year.
(08:44):
All of these women areincredible in their own right.
Mm-hmm.
We all have podcasts, which ishow we met.
So, and then we all have our ownunique business in the world.
All of all of us are here toelevate the consciousness of
women everywhere and some of usin different ways.
So I'm going to transition tothe panelists and I'll introduce
(09:06):
each of you with a sentence,bio, and then ask you an intro
question.
You'll have about two minutes,and then we'll swap.
Sounds good.
Beautiful.
Okay.
So I've asked each of thepanelists to share a personal
story about how shame has shownup in their lives, what it kept
them from, and then what itshifted when they began, when
(09:30):
they began to name it.
And so I would love to startwith, um.
The CEO and founder of abeautiful Fix, my gorgeous
friend Tracy Hill.
And Tracy Hill is the creator ofa Beautiful Fix, which is a
podcast and a movement helpingwomen stop chasing external
(09:53):
answers and start trusting thewisdom within, while
reconnecting with the wonder andawe that makes life feel
beautiful again.
And she's a certified humandesign guide.
A retreat host, yes.
And a self-love advocate guidingwomen to feel high on life.
(10:16):
You know, I love that one.
Beautiful fix at a time.
So Tracy, I will turn it over toyou.
Can you share a little bit abouthow shame has shown up in your
life, what it's kept you fromand how it's shifted when you
started to name it?
Absolutely.
So, you know, Dana, it'sinteresting because when you
asked me to be on a panel aboutshame, I was like, I'm in
(10:37):
because it's Dana.
And I knew the, the amazingwomen that would be on this
panel with me.
But to be honest, I thoughtshame's not really my thing.
Like I don't have a relationshipwith shame.
I don't really, I don't nowguilt lives with me like that is
my girl guilt is always here.
And I was like, I.
But then I started thinkingabout it and I watched Brene
(11:01):
Brown's, um, talk,'cause I loveher.
I read a chapter and um, thisbook that I have women who run
with wolves all about shame.
And I thought, oh my gosh, Iabsolutely have shame.
For some reason I don't reallyassociate myself with it.
That's not something I wouldimmediately go to.
But when I started thinking backon my life, I realized I've
always had shame.
(11:22):
Um, I've always wanted to bethe.
Perfect girl, you know, daddy'slittle girl and doing the right
things.
And it kept me really on thestraight and arrow because I
never wanted to do anythingwrong.
I think the first, first momentwhere I really, truly
experienced shame was Ideveloped before some of my
friends.
I was stick thin, very, verythin, but I developed a chest.
(11:43):
Um, and I swam every single dayand I was, I don't know how old
I was, but 10, 11, somethinglike that.
But I hopped out of the pool.
We had a public pool right nextdoor to me, and I hopped outta
the pool and one of the guysscreamed, Tracy Brown, that's my
maiden name.
Tracy Browns, got tennis balls.
And I was so embarrassed.
(12:05):
I was so embarrassed.
Everyone turned and looked atme.
I hated having people, you know,notice me.
And from that moment I startedto slouch.
I wore a t-shirt to the pool.
From that day on, I never worejust a, a bathing suit again.
And I carry that with me.
And so, um, my life has kind ofbeen, that's kind of been my
relationship with shame.
I'm very.
Getting in trouble in school, Iwould feel intense shame.
(12:28):
Um, if my parents, if I didsomething wrong, I felt shame.
But it's followed me.
And even in my adult years, Irealized, you know, I left my
career in 2020 and, um, I had nobusiness doing it.
It was not a, it wasn'tsomething that, it was like, oh,
I planned it out.
I just kinda left.
I left my family hanging and Iremember leaving feeling intense
(12:50):
shame and knowing that I wasgonna have to, I told my husband
beforehand that I was obviouslygoing to, to leave, but I hadn't
told my children.
And I remember the moment wherewe were gonna call my two sons
that were in college.
We called my two sons that wereliving at home in, and that
moment where I was gonna tellthem I felt immense shame over
what I had done.
Um, but when I mentioned it tothem.
(13:14):
I was ready to start explainingmyself and, you know, begging
for their forgiveness.
And instead, and I told thisstory to you before Dana, my
oldest son smiled.
Um, both of my older sons smiledand, and, and the boys that were
in the room with me, and Iremember my oldest saying,
congratulations, mom.
And so I think that's really,and I, I'm sure we're gonna get
(13:35):
into this later, that is thething with shame is, and BNE
talks about this, it's secrecy.
It's that everyone wants tobelong, they wanna feel
included.
It's that keeping silent.
But the moment you can speak itinto existence, you know, it
kind of dissipates.
So.
Those are just some examples.
The other one I'll share is Irecently went skinny dipping,
(13:58):
and I have never done that in mylife, ever because of shame,
shame of my body, shame of theidea of someone else seeing me.
It was just something I nevereven wanted to do.
But recently, um, and my pool,my own pool, some friends
mentioned that they had goneskinny dipping.
And I thought, I've never donethat in my life.
And I thought, I'm going to doit.
And, um, I did it.
(14:19):
Yes, it was midnight.
Yes, there was no light outsideexcept for the moonlight.
But in that moment, I rememberbeing in the pool thinking, why
have I felt shame about doingsomething like this?
Or just showing my body?
Not that anyone could see it,you know, but it just, it made
me think about why do we carrythis shame?
And I definitely agree that Ithink women take on way more
(14:41):
shame than men.
But, but I'll stop there.
So that, that's my introductionto my life with shame.
Thank you Tracy.
And also check out that podcastepisode on a Beautiful Fix about
her first experience, skinnydipping.
'cause it's so fun.
It is so fun.
And then the, the other thing Iheard is the ways that shame
(15:04):
shows up for us.
So you mentioned in yourchildhood, you mentioned at
school, you mentioned with yourbody, you mentioned with your
family, you mentioned with yourcareer.
So it is so sneaky and it showsup in all the corners of life.
So thank you Tracy.
Absolutely.
Next we will hear from thegorgeous, legendary CEO and
(15:28):
founder of Midlife Butterfly.
My friend Cana Ou and Cana isthe founder of Midlife Butterfly
and the host of the MidlifeButterfly podcast, and she helps
women move through life'sbiggest transition.
So listen up, midlifers.
Going through transitions,divorce, loss, reinvention, and
(15:50):
awakening, guiding them to comehome to themselves, reconnect
with their soul and body, andcreate lives of freedom, love,
and joy.
That is like a spiritual orgasm.
Just reading out loud.
Okay.
Try to think your work in theworld.
Oh, I love us so much.
(16:12):
Okay, so same, same question toyou.
If you will share with us whatshame has looked like in your
life and what you've done toshine the light on it.
Yes, thank you.
Uh.
It also comes to the body as, asTracy was sharing, before I was
13 years years old, I went tovisit a friend.
(16:35):
My parents were, I dunno, I wentto see this friend.
My parents were in the car.
So I go and knock the door andhis little brother open the, the
door.
And then somebody screamed,like, who is there?
And he said, oh, it's a, askinny, tall girl with glasses
and braces.
(16:59):
And that stood with me.
I mean, and still is stillthere, right?
So ends up, his brother was notthere.
I came back to the car and thenI was f furious.
I was like so, so mad.
And my parents just like, whathappened?
So I told them and they justlaugh about it.
(17:20):
'cause you know, it was.
I guess it was funny they didn'tknow else, like what to do or
what to ask, you know?
Uh, but I didn't realize thatstood with me, uh, until, uh, I
don't know, probably a decade orsomething so many years later.
And the consequences of that wasthat again, like hiding my body.
(17:46):
And, um, like me, for example,I, when I turned 15, you know,
in Mexico we have thequinceaneras and everything.
At that time, like my chest wasstill, you know, plain.
I don't know when they grow andit was afterwards.
But even like, I got the shame,you know, for my body, for my
looks, that I will.
(18:07):
Like in university, I wasalready, you know, having nice
boobs and everything and myfriends were like, where's
something that you can showthem?
Like, you're so nice and sexyand stuff.
But in my mind I was stillprobably like this skinny girl,
you know?
And that got rejected becausethat's how I took it.
I took that comment as arejection and that became my
(18:30):
main wound.
And because of that, of coursehas affected my life and going
to, you know, big gatherings, Iwould be the one in the corner
hiding or just for my business.
It's took me like two years todo the first video.
I was so afraid of it.
And again, I was afraid of beingseen.
(18:50):
So the consequences just for andsimple between quotes, comment
of this little kid describingwho I was, the effect they had
in my life was like very.
Yeah, it was really what, whatis the word?
Daunting.
It was really there.
(19:11):
So by working in my wound ofrejection, that's how it's been,
like the process of deeming andclearing up that shame.
So I'm hearing a couple ofsimilarities.
One is it starts early,especially for women.
I have that exact sameexperience.
(19:32):
I remember when somebody said Ihad thunder thighs, and I was
like, well, let me add 10 thingsto do to fix my thighs, because
some random boy said thunderthighs.
And that carried with me.
And so I'm hearing that from youtoo.
And you know it's nuancedbecause that person said, uh, to
you, Tracy.
(19:52):
And then the person who said itto me was to shame me.
And it sounds like.
Canna, yours was just someoneobserving something and you took
it as something to shameyourself, something that you
felt.
So it's wrong, could be externaland it co can be internal.
And I also hear it showing up inthe evolution of your business
(20:14):
too.
Your bliss canna calls abusiness bliss.
And why can we please all dothat?
And now if you go check out, andI hope you will, midlife
butterfly and kaya's Instagram,you're gonna see her.
She's sexy all over the placeand she's dancing and she's
teaching women to be on theirown pleasure and appreciate
their own body.
And so this is the power of whathappens when we notice our
(20:37):
shame, when we name it, and thenwhen we do things that we'll
talk about later in the, in thepanel too.
Unleash ourselves from it.
That's gorgeous.
Thank you, Kaya.
Okay, next up is my, I want tocall you my partner in crime.
The biggest spark.
The biggest spark in the game,Casey Taton.
(21:00):
And she is, I'm just adding CEO.
She's CEO and host of the InnerSpark Podcast and founder of
Little Moments, big DreamCelebrations, which is an
organization that brings smilesto kids in the hospital.
And I hope that you'll at somepoint, Casey, talk about how you
(21:22):
see shame showing up for yourkiddos too, because I'm sure
it's there.
But for now, can you speak intoyour own experience of shame?
Maybe tell us a story and howit's shown up, what it's kept
you from, and if it's shifted atall when you started to name it.
Thanks Dana.
Um, yeah, so.
(21:43):
Listening to the other beautifulladies, I realized there's
definitely a theme here of, um,I had spinal meningitis when I
was a baby, and I don't rememberit.
I was so young.
However, my family continues totalk about it, and so I always
felt the shame of I didsomething wrong or I was bad for
(22:07):
having something that caused myfamily so much pain and yeah.
Oh, sorry.
It's big.
Um, and then as I got older, I,I was, I was a competitive
roller skater and we were,weight was a huge thing.
(22:29):
We had to watch our, we wore thelittle dresses.
And I was young when I started.
I was like five when I started,and I went all the way into like
high school or middle school,start skating all over the
world.
And we wore the little bittydresses and weight was a huge
thing.
And I remember one of my coachessaying like, what is she eating?
(22:49):
And my mom was like, I'm givingher a snack every day here.
Like we, I would go straightfrom school to the skating rink
to practice.
We practice seven days a week.
And, um, it was just like, well,we're gonna have to change your
snacks because you're getting alittle bit bigger.
Bigger as in like, I'm growingand I'm hitting puberty.
Like, how can you change that?
(23:12):
And I, yeah.
And so I think I've always beenconscious of my weight.
Um, as I got older, I was, Iswitched to, you know, soccer
playing.
I did things I always wanted tobe, uh, daddy's little girl I
was.
Still am grown adult.
Um, but I switched to sportsthat my brother was playing and,
(23:36):
um, I wanted to Oh, oh, wow.
You, you caught me off guard,Dana.
Thanks.
Um, you know, I started playingsoccer.
I started playing golf.
I was the runner, did all thethings so I could connect with
them.
Um, and also I tried, I think inschool I tried super hard.
(23:58):
My brother was just naturallysmart and I was not.
And so I think there was shamearound like, why am I not the
smart one?
Why am I always the one thatseems to be causing like all the
problems?
And then as I got older, as anadult, um, I thought a rear
(24:18):
condition and my life stopped.
And then I had scars.
And so until a few years ago,um, I didn't talk about it.
I was embarrassed to show mybody.
Um, I was embarrassed to show myscars and also to let my voice
be heard and to let people knowthat it's okay to freaking have
(24:40):
badass scars.
And it doesn't matter what sizewe are, that we're all freaking
amazing human beings, andthere's so much light in all of
us.
That is gorgeous.
That's so gorgeous, Casey.
And I'm hearing somesimilarities with body, with
body image, and with what otherpeople say about our bodies.
(25:04):
Just so curious, which we thenbring into our own internal
monologue.
I want to call it dialogue, butit's really not.
It's me talking to me, you know?
And then also the.
I wanna call that the compoundeffect.
So shame when we're little andthen it compounds and then it
compounds and then it compoundsand it looks like as an adult.
(25:28):
And we'll get there.
Like what I, I really appreciatehow we're going backwards and
like talking about childhoodshame and also wanna invite us.
Deeper in the panel to talkabout current shame.
Uh, it's this shame is doingwhat she does.
She's like, yeah, talk aboutwhat it used to be like when
you're little.
That's like super easy and no,no shame in the game, but like
protect, uh, just to protectyour, um, your brain.
(25:51):
We're gonna go to current shame.
Okay, everybody.
And on the listener side, I betmaybe you're thinking about
childhood shame too, which is ofcourse where it all begins.
And then the question now iswhat, what, where are the
blinders?
Which shame, which blinders haveshame put on me now that's in
current day ex expression of mylife.
(26:12):
So, thank you Casey.
And Casey, you didn't mentionthis.
I'm, I'm inviting you to, uh, atsome point speak into it.
About the work that you do now,but Casey is a huge light in the
world.
So with her podcast and herorganization, she has used her
walkthrough shame to create morelife for the most vulnerable,
(26:38):
lovely, gorgeous little peopleon the earth.
So hopefully you get to speak tothat Casey and definitely follow
her.
Follow her journey in the links,in the show notes.
So next, we are transitioning tomy favorite.
I'm, I'm not gonna, I loveeverybody's podcasts here.
I promise.
I love all of you and I listento you and you're all
(27:00):
incredible.
But the one that I wake up onThursday and I'm like, same
Crime, different Time is comingout.
The founder and host of that ismy good friend, Jen Chambers.
And Jen Chambers is also awriter, publisher, and the host
of Beyond the Margins, with JenChambers and Same Crime,
different Time, both podcasts.
(27:22):
She's also a TEDx organizer, agraduate of the Iowa Women
Summer Writing Program.
I don't know why I threw womenin there.
Tattoo, it's not women.
Let me read it again.
Graduate of the Iowa SummerWriting Program, and she's
dedicated to helping othersshare their stories.
So, Jen, same question.
(27:42):
Tell us about shame, what it'skept you from, and how you have
shined light on it in your life.
You know, I'm so excited to behere with you guys.
It's every, every time we allmeet together, it's my favorite
day.
And this is even better.
It's so interesting to talkabout shame.
I feel like shame is my originstory.
(28:04):
You know, shame is my, um, I wasintroduced to shame, I guess,
um, kind of at my very beginningbecause I had a brain injury and
after my car accident that I gotmy brain injury in relearning
how to be like everyone else wasmy number one goal.
(28:27):
I always felt so ashamed becauseI was intrinsically not, there
was no way, I didn't feel like Icould bridge the gap to be like
everyone else.
And so every walk was,everything I did made me feel
inadequate and not enough.
Um, not because I think anyoneelse told me I was, but I took
(28:49):
that on because I could see thatI didn't match.
And it was terrifying.
It was so terrifying.
So in a lot of ways, um, a lotof the things that I have done
has been to, to stop that shamefrom, from happening, um, and
working really, really hard allthe time to make sure that
(29:10):
nobody sees the, um, the manbehind the mirror, you know, all
I think that, that it's servedme well in a lot of ways, but
I've kind of bent over backwardsa lot to try and be what
everyone else wants me to be.
Rather than figure out what Iwant for myself.
So that's been my work of thelast 10 years probably trying to
(29:33):
figure out how to listen to whatI want and my, my own, my own
needs and my own, um, thethings, the places that I want
to go.
Uh, I really liked also that youguys were talking, I mean, I
didn't, like it is the wrongword, but I think that we all
have so much in common as women,um, when we speak about shame in
(29:56):
our bodies.
Because one of my earliestmemories after I came back from
my brain injury and all that, Ican, and it's funny'cause I
hadn't thought about it foryears, but hearing you guys talk
about this completely, I, I wasright back there.
I was mostly recovered.
I was out to dinner with myparents.
I live in, um, in Eugene,Oregon.
(30:18):
So the University of Oregon isthere and, um.
We were having dinner in thisrestaurant on campus, and I get
up and my parents are, haveleft, and a U of O football
player comes up behind me andlike grabs my butt.
And I'm 16 years old and I wasso, I didn't know what to do.
(30:41):
I was just, I was, I mean, andthis was many, many, many years
ago, but I was just so ashamedof myself.
Like, what did I do?
I didn't invite that.
I was just standing therewaiting to go outside or
something.
I don't know.
But, but that was my firstintroduction to that kind of
(31:01):
shame about my body.
And I think that so many womenget so many unwanted comments,
grabs, uh, advances all sorts ofthings.
It's interesting how I'veinternalized that and I just
felt so incredibly ashamed ofmyself at that time and that
kind of.
I didn't realize that it hadstuck with me, but I, I've done
(31:23):
a lot of things to cover myselfup for that reason,
metaphysically and physically,because I, I felt like it was
wrong.
So I think that's reallyinteresting.
And I've spoken to so many womenwho have experiences, um, with
not always men, but often, youknow, that have caused them to
(31:48):
feel a lot of shame.
And I, I, it's very sad, butit's interesting.
And, and to me it's really greatto recognize that it's not about
maybe what happened to me, it'sabout how I'm processing that
chain.
You have just made theinvitation for us to do what I
(32:12):
think might be the mostimportant thing, Jen.
And it's to, to wake up, and Iuse a wand in my practice as a
symbol for many things, but oneis the, the awakening, the, the
awareness of, hey, that thingthat that guy said to me or that
woman said to me.
I, I have an ex, an example thatI've shared before about how I
used to love math.
(32:32):
I'd be obsessed with it, and Itook all advanced math classes
and I was on the acceleratedtrack.
And then when it came time toapply for ap, the, the female
math teacher who was, she'd beenteaching AP Calc forever.
She looked at me and she's like,there's no way you would make it
in this class.
You're not good enough to behere.
(32:52):
And so from that moment on, I exI did a couple of things.
One is I got that hot feelingof, of shame, I'm not good
enough.
I'm disconnected from not, notjust my peers, but also my
identity of who I believed I wasand what was true for me.
And then carried that throughinto almost adulthood until I
(33:14):
woke up and realized I went tothis really fancy college and I
said, well, I guess I'll have totake remedial math classes.
And I just, you know, so when,uh, part of the, part of the
work is waking up and realizing,so when I realized that I had
just taken that woman's opinionand made it my identity, I
(33:34):
thought, well, maybe I couldrelease that.
And then the universe knows whatshe's doing.
So I ended up teaching fifth andsixth grade math for a short
time, and which was so funbecause my kiddos would come in
and say, oh, I'm not good atmath.
I was like, up until today.
And today we're changing thatagreement.
And, and let it be as simple asthat.
(33:55):
And repeating and repeating.
So thank you, Jen, for thereminder that we get to start
questioning what's real and whatwe agreed with and, and
wondering without shame, like,oh, carried that around for like
20 years.
Like, that's interesting.
And so today could be the dayto, to let that go, to change
the agreement and to decide, yousaid something else that was
(34:18):
really beautiful.
What I actually want and who Iactually am to this deep
authenticity of the ask thatyour soul is making about, that
shows up in evidence of doingthings that you love.
Thank you so much.
So our next question is, thefloor is open and it's about the
(34:38):
anatomy of shame.
And the question for each of youis, what systems do you think
most fuel the feelings of shamefor women specifically in
society?
So maybe family or friendships,religion, culture, politic, any,
take this anywhere you go andyou'd like to go.
(35:00):
And then if you could make itpersonal.
So yes, conceptual andtheoretical.
And also could you bring us intoa, uh, the heartbeat of a moment
where you or someone that youlove and serve experienced shame
as a result of this.
And so I'm, I'm gonna go firstjust to warm us up.
I was raised in a southernBaptist religion and also sent
(35:24):
to Catholic school, so it wasvery confusing.
Very confusing.
And one thing that I love mostabout my life and still do is I
loved animals.
I was raised on a farm.
They, we just, just obsessedwith them.
And one day we, um, were drivingto school and one of our dogs
(35:45):
was on the road and she wasgone.
She, she was with the Lord and Iwas so devastated.
And I went to, you know, I'm insecond grade, so that makes you
what?
Like seven.
And I went to the priest andsaid, pumpkin's with Jesus in
heaven now.
And at that time, the Catholicchurch had a different, um.
Uh, stance on what happens tothe pet's souls and they do now.
(36:08):
So thanks Pope Francis for shiftshaking that up for us.
But at that time, the past, thepriest informed me that, oh no,
pumpkin was not with the Lord inheaven.
There was no soul for pumpkin.
And so she just didn't existanymore.
And I felt so much like I, Ifelt so ashamed because I
trusted in this religion, Itrusted in this the son of God.
(36:30):
I trusted in all the things.
And then I felt this hotwash ofthat's not true and I've been
lied to.
And not to mention the countlessother things that the Catholic
church was like.
And if you do this, you're goingto hell.
And if you do this, youdefinitely don't have any sex.
'cause then you're definitelygoing to hell.
So before I even went to thefifth grade, I was sitting in
mass and I was like, well whyeven bother?
(36:52):
'cause I'm definitely going tohell.
Anyway.
I've done way too much to evenconsider being good.
The good.
Girl.
And so it was really deflatingon that.
And I know I went to childhood,but I carried that all the way
into my first and second year ofrecovery where I got a new lease
(37:13):
on what it means to be a womanof the spirit of the universe.
And that religion andspirituality are not the same.
So starting from childhood andthen carrying it really angstily
into current day reality andrecovery.
And with that, we'll go to Cana.
Yeah.
So from my side, I think, youknow, shame is for what I'm
(37:38):
gonna share is more, comes morefrom family and, uh, in the case
religion, which is about sex,not considering a taboo and not
talk about it.
And, and then from there, Iguess it comes the shame of
women of us.
(37:59):
Having a menstrual period andthen shaming.
If we got a stain at one point,if we are like having a tantrum,
because we are in our PMS andunfortunately we haven't had
that kind of culture, we don'thave it like how our hormones
(38:20):
move around, how we supposed to,we can actually go through them
and then we feel shame becausewe are behaving differently or
because we feel like eating morejunk food or you know, or
different mechanisms that ourbody has because he's just going
(38:41):
through these moon cycles every,every month.
And um, and one of the thingsthat at least happened to me
related to sex itself is thefact that.
Well, I guess I gotta give a bitof story before that is the
(39:04):
fact, like my very, very firstlove, we were together for four
years and, uh, we never had sex.
And we never had sex because offear.
Like his brothers and sisters,all of them got married from my
side.
My brother got, well, gotpregnant, no, sorry, not
(39:25):
married, pregnant from, from myside.
Also my brother, my cousin, thatI'm a bit older than her.
So it was so much fear that wenever had, you know, we never
made love.
And, and that came as aconsequence of what I picked up
on that at some point that Ijust discovered like five years
(39:48):
ago.
It was the fact that I thoughtthat I didn't deserve pleasure.
And I used to relate pleasureonly to sex, but we can have
pleasures for many, many things.
Like, I'm just having such apleasure having this
conversation with all of you.
You know?
So then that's the thing, likestarting to see pleasure from a
(40:12):
different place, from adifferent perspective, not only
related, uh, to sex.
And it has just been an oddthing, uh, like completely
different.
And it's been always somethingthat I was like, yeah, pleasure.
And I even have it in my, in mydesktop, uh, among all the
wordings and, you know,affirmations that I have there.
(40:34):
The word pleasure is there.
And no coincidence that theuniverse at this time, I am
actually taking a, acertification, um, as a neuro
epigenetic breathing coach.
This certification has been justblowing my mind because the
mentor, what she talks about asus as human beings, we are sex,
(41:00):
love, and consciousness, butunfortunately we have been
fragmented.
Right?
No, love is one thing, sex isanother thing, and then
consciousness is something else.
It's like, hell no.
I mean, we have everything inour body.
So for me, trying now, you know,like really understanding and
(41:23):
embodying that part of saying,yes, we are sex and we are love.
And when we think about it, it'slike, of course we come from
those two elements from ourparents.
They have sex and love,otherwise we were not here, you
know?
But it's just crazy how muchthen we can have that.
(41:45):
Shame of not talking about sexand pleasure and sensuality when
it's part of ourselves.
And that's what I'm like now.
It's like, you know, bringing iton and that's what I'm tuning in
more with my body and I can'twait to bring this to, to the
world for me to be able to shareit because it's so important for
(42:07):
us to, again, talking like, youknow, just hearing this panel,
all the shame that we carry inour bodies for a comment of
someone like, how come it's thatpossible that it can carry us
through how many decades?
So the more we can tune in withour bodies that we more we can
(42:28):
love ourselves and care forourselves, then that shame
starts to, to them away.
That's how I feel it.
Yeah, so love, sex, andconsciousness.
And if you're not watching thevideo, I want you to know that
when Cana was talking aboutperiods and menstruation and
(42:48):
sex, all of the women's headswere nodding and nodding and
nodding and nodding.
And so I'm seeing a theme hereof periods and sex and making
love.
And I'll just add orgasms andself-pleasure and this
disconnection from who we are aswomen and our own sexuality,
(43:09):
which is inherent, it's core,and it's so important.
And as I'm learning recently,might be the biggest blocker to
creating a manifesting abundancethat putting the lid on the sex
sacred sexuality of self.
And so, yes, and then also, didanybody hear the song?
Let's talk about sex, be B.
(43:29):
Let's, okay.
You did too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
Awesome.
Okay.
Pass to you, Tracy.
Yeah, so.
Um, I was just thinking aboutthis.
I.
You ask kind of where does shamecome from?
And I believe it's just, again,it's this, it's this sense of
belonging.
I think we all wanna belong.
And ever since I was a littlegirl, I felt like I never
(43:50):
belonged.
I never, I was always different,no matter how much I wanted to
just blend something, always, ifeveryone was over there, I was
thinking this.
But the one thing I was gonnashare is, um, I have never been
religious.
My family's never beenreligious.
My mom was raised, um, Catholic,Episcopalian, but she was raised
in the Catholic school systemand it just terrified her.
(44:12):
She just felt the fear all thetime about all the sin and the
nuns, and she was afraid of'em.
And so when she had herchildren, she had us baptized,
but she would read to us fromthe Bible and she would just
say, guys, be good every day andnot just on Sunday.
And that was literally myreligion growing up.
But.
Everyone would always try toshame me for that because other
people were very religious andthey would make me feel bad.
(44:34):
And I feel like I've always beenspiritual, but what I was gonna
share was I've always been intothings that I realized in my
twenties, other people, um,judged.
So I've always been intoastrology.
I don't know where it started,but my parents aren't into it.
I'm sorry, I'm turning off myrobot.
It's making noise.
(44:55):
Um, and they would, um, soanyway, I, I was into crystals
and now that I'm older, I wasinto crystals and tarot cards.
And I remember I had a reallygood friend who, um, I asked him
what his, uh, astrology signwas, his zodiac sign.
I, this guy I thought the worldof, he was super intelligent,
(45:15):
very smart, but he was also aminister.
And he was like, I don't dothat.
And I was like, I don'tunderstand.
And he, then he explained to methat, I guess in the religious
circles.
Um, astrology and all of thatsometimes is, is is not cool.
I remember feeling so much shamein that moment.
I played my whole life back,like, oh my God, what is wrong
with me?
And I put it away.
I stopped.
(45:36):
Even though I'm not religious, Ijust stopped kind of doing it.
And, um, now that I'm older, I'mrealizing I, I don't care what
people think anymore.
Um, but when I was on TikTokabout a year ago, you know,
TikTok is this amazingalgorithm.
Whatever you interact with, it'sgonna send you more of it.
So I'm interacting with all thisdifferent stuff and I started
(45:57):
noticing at the bottom of iteverything was hashtag witch to,
and I was like, oh my God.
Like through my phone.
And again, I was like, what ismy deal?
And I felt so much shame and I'mthinking, I'm looking at stuff
about herbs and natural medicineand the moon and tarot, and.
So I bought a book on witches.
'cause I thought, what is this?
(46:18):
And I'm just gonna say it.
I'm gonna out myself.
I was a hundred percent a witchfor sure in a past life, without
a doubt.
They used to say that if you hadblack cats, you were a witch.
I'm already done there.
I love animals.
I've always had black hats.
Um.
Witches were these amazingpeople.
(46:38):
They just knew about thedifferent seasons and Mother
Earth and how to work with theland and herbs.
And they were healers.
There were these beautiful,amazing women, but men decided
we can't have this.
And there was a, a, anyway, Iwon't, I won't go into all of
it.
So I just, I wanted to outmyself with that because I've
always held back everything thatI'm into from a spiritual
(46:59):
standpoint.
I have been made to feel like itis wrong, and so I kind of hide
it.
And now I'm out there, I'm outthere.
I I, I put it out there.
Human design is, is what I do.
And some people, even with that,because astrology is a part of
it and all of these systems areout there, it's to let you know
that you have the answers.
We don't have to rely on a bookor some other person.
(47:22):
It's within us.
And so I, I will, I'll leave itthere.
Also notice all of our headsnodding with you.
I'm like, yeah, we're widgetstoo.
Yes.
Yes.
And I, I was hoping you wouldmention human design because
knowing ourselves and our energydesign sets us free.
(47:42):
And just a quick example of thatis.
I had a really powerful sessionwith Tracy, and she shared with
me my human design.
And I'm a projector, which meansI'm pretty big source of energy,
but also it's a little bit, Ihave to use it wisely, and it
just brought me so much personalpeace to remember.
(48:03):
Yeah, that's who I am.
No need to be ashamed of howbright the light gets when I
walk into the room, becausebefore that session, I knew I
had a bunch of light and I knewthat I was here to project it,
but I didn't feel like I wasdeserving or as confident as I
did when I walked out of thatand it was an hour session and a
document and I said, let's gochange the world because now we
(48:26):
know who we are and there's zerospace for shame.
And so I cannot recommend thatwork with Tracy.
Enough.
Human design and what it comesdown to that many of us have
said is a deep.
Remembering'cause it's not likewe didn't know, but it's a
remembering of who we actuallyare, not reliant upon.
(48:49):
I'm gonna just call out thepatriarchy, which all those
systems are, you know, andthat's not necess.
I'm not a man hater.
I love man men.
I'm married to one.
He's very hot.
And but what I am saying is thatshame is ensconced in these
structures that we participatein from the first breath.
And that's, that's racism andit's sexism and it's classism
(49:12):
and it's all those things.
And so because there's so muchshame entrenched in those
systems, the most powerful thingwe can do, I have two.
One is to know ourselves so thatwe can then know and love the
woman and the person sits acrossfrom us no matter what.
Remembering that we are all oneand shame's main job is to
(49:34):
separate us.
Thank you Tracy.
Jen, you're on that.
Danny, can I just say Yeah.
One really quick thing?
Mm-hmm.
Just for listeners, normally thething that you are ashamed of or
that you are keeping yourholding yourself down on is your
superpower.
Is the thing that when you turnup the volume, more than likely
that is your gift on the otherside.
Alright.
(49:54):
I'm done.
Thank you Jen.
I think that one of the things Iwas thinking about, so I was
reading your questions.
So what systems fueled most?
Um.
Shame for women.
There's so many things involvedin culture that shame women, all
(50:14):
different kinds of things.
Um, I think one of theinteresting things that, that's
a part of a couple differentsystems is the idea of being a
parent, whether you are or not,how you do it.
Um, there's so, so many waysthat people shame you about it.
Um, interesting.
(50:34):
I thought it was interesting toobecause we have a, a good mix on
this panel.
Some of us are parents, some ofus aren't.
Um, I had an experience oncewhere I had just had one of my
kids, I can't remember whichone, um, and I was in a group of
other women and I went to thebathroom and my kid was safely
(50:56):
in the, their carrier.
Right.
And it was my, that's right.
It was my second son.
There we go.
Now I got it.
And um, I went to the bathroomand I heard them talking about
me in the bathroom.
So I heard them saying somethingabout, um, they wish that I
wasn't there and they couldn'twait for me to leave.
And, um, it was interestingbecause these are, these women
(51:19):
were women who were perfectparents, you know, they were,
they always were the ones whoalways picked their kids up all
the time and went to every PTAmeeting and all of these things.
And I felt so much less thanbecause I was new at, at
parenting this little person.
(51:40):
So I, I think it's reallyinteresting.
So, to finish that story, I, Icalled my husband.
I didn't drive at the time, andI got out of there because I
wasn't gonna be around thosewomen.
But I think it's interesting howwomen in particular can shame
each other about parenting andlack of shame or it, it doesn't
matter.
I, I think it's terrible that,that we're taught that there's.
(52:05):
More value in one way or or theother.
And in how we do it, everybody'sjust trying their best.
I feel like parent or or dog,parent or cat parent.
We're all just trying our best.
And I, I always remember,remember that just because I
think, first of all, I wasstruck by the fact that these
other women we're being so awfulabout something like that.
(52:28):
But yeah.
But you, you, that's a beautifulpoint.
And the reason is not becausethose women are awful, it's
because we're a part of a systemwhere shame is in the water, and
that's why we're here today.
And so what I heard you say is,yes, it's an internal game.
And also can we not be anasshole to each other,
(52:50):
especially women to women, andjust in deciding to be kind and
loving or even curious.
Deciding that if you knew thewhole story, the only thing you
would feel is connection, love,and compassion.
And then moving on with yourday.
Whether you agree or disagree isso powerful.
And then I just wanna addquickly to that is being a mom
(53:11):
and then watching the way thatI'm interfacing with my own
kids.
So I don't, I interrupt thatpassing down.
So when I received a shamingremark from my mom or from my
teacher or whatever, and then itstarts to come outta my mouth to
my own daughters, I wake up andsay, actually, you're an amazing
person and maybe you just made abad choice.
(53:32):
How can we fix it for next time?
But sending my girls to schoolwith a reminder that you are
beautiful daughters of theinfinite, and so is everyone
else in your class.
And what we're looking at rightnow is the types of choices that
we are making.
Do they align with who weactually are?
Which just in case you'reconfused, worthy, loved,
deserving enough, repeat,worthy, loving, deserving
(53:53):
enough.
The end, nothing that we can docan jeopardize that.
And so now the question is aboutthe action.
Casey round us out.
I do not have children of myown, although I feel like I have
a hundred kids out there in theworld and I get to celebrate all
the time.
And the thing that really comesin is there is so much shame
(54:18):
they go through.
And I can relate on my own levelthat the society puts on us
about how we should look and howwe should feel.
Um, these kids that have scarslike me, like they're the ones
that inspired me to like show myscar off.
How can I tell these kidsthey're superheroes in my eyes
(54:40):
and show your scar off when I'mnot doing it?
So, and a lot of these childrenare losing their hair, and so we
have made fun hats that we getto do.
For and to bring into thehospital for these kids to make
them feel normal.
Like it's okay to not have hair.
It's okay to have badass scarslike society puts so much
(55:03):
pressure on us as humans, andwe're here to change that.
Yes.
And you, that's the perfectsegue, the perfect segue to this
next question, which is, okay,great.
Now we know we've got shame.
We know she doesn't like us totalk about her.
(55:23):
We know we're using shameagainst each other.
We know that it's in inco,ensconced in the systems.
And so what are we going to do?
Like, what are we going to do?
So the question for you is, andCasey, you just named one, what
practices help you and that yourecommend with the women that
you serve to release shame?
(55:44):
So you shift when it starts tocome in, what are the practices
that you use?
And I'll bring the one that, um,Brene Brown mentions, because
this is the one that I use mostin my life, is I'm awake when
the feeling, it's the warmth,right?
Someone says something or, uh.
Makes a nasty comment orwhatever, and then I'll start to
(56:04):
notice the warmth, which is mysignal, and then I'll bring it
back to who am I?
Who am I?
Who am I?
And it's simple, right?
I'm a daughter of the infinite.
I'm a spirit of the universe.
I'm loved, I'm worthy.
I'm enough.
I'm a deserving.
The end.
And then if it's a question of adecision that I made, or a
choice that I made that wasn'tin alignment, I get in and I
(56:26):
start talking to me, right?
It's like the sexiest monologue.
Like, Hey sis, you made amistake.
It's okay.
Can we do better next time?
And the other part of me islike, yeah, sure.
Let's do better next time.
Okay, that's scene.
Let's keep moving.
So my whole identity isn't onthe line every time I do it to
myself or receive it fromsomeone else, but it comes back
to a practice of remembering whothe fuck I am.
(56:52):
Then getting in the heart andsoul of the conversation and
being real nice to me.
Really kind, really loving, justlike I was talking to my
youngest daughter or any of mydaughters.
So that's the practice that Iuse for myself.
It's the one that has set mefree and that I most recommend.
And let's go to you, Jen.
(57:14):
I have to say that, um, this,this is incredible because the,
the practices for me relate to,um, breath work for sure.
Being able to breathe into thefeelings.
Are they real feelings?
Is this accurate?
Is this something that I need towork on?
And then also, I like to,because what I do, I write, so I
(57:37):
always like to write through itin my journal.
In the mornings or in theevenings, I like to write
through it and then kind ofclarify those feelings too,
like.
Like, if this is real, what do Iwant to do about it?
If this is not real, why, why?
How can I not trigger myselfabout this?
Can I not be around those peopleor around that?
Whatever it is that's bringingthat up for me.
(57:57):
So I think that that's valuablebecause then you can either
discard it or work with it.
So for me, that's useful.
And I try to make it not toolong because a lot of times when
people say, oh, we have tojournal, it's like a 40 minute
session, but I tend to do thatvery quickly.
It works for me.
Yeah, the somatic practice ofbreath work and then making it
(58:20):
quick and quick and easy.
We don't have to get in bed withshame and like have a talk out.
It can be literally in themoment.
Redirect.
Thank you Jen.
And uh, back to you, Tracy.
Yeah, so I was gonna say, Ithink one of the number one
things to do is just to own it.
Um.
To, to own it and put it outthere.
(58:42):
Dana, I remember I've told youthis before, but the first time
I listened to your podcast,which is phenomenal, um, hearing
you tell your story the way youtold it with so much honesty,
vulnerability, laughter, thewhole thing, it was so beautiful
to witness.
Um, and I think everyone canlearn from that because it's
(59:02):
something about.
It's something about keepingthings inside.
That's where the ugliness grows.
That's what how shame grows.
It's, it requires it to staylocked inside.
And the thing is, it's going tocome out, it may not come out
verbally, but it's going to comeout either through the body or
you holding back from something.
Or maybe you have a conversationwith someone and it triggers
(59:24):
something and people are like,whoa, where did that come from?
It's coming from that shame thatyou've locked down inside.
So I would say, um, also whenyou speak it into existence,
not, it doesn't just help you,but somebody out there is gonna
hear your story and say Yes.
Oh my gosh.
I just saw a, um, a social mediapost from a woman the other day.
She lost her, her mother walkedaway from her at a very early
(59:47):
age, so she felt so much shame.
Her own mother didn't want her,and she was with one of her
girlfriends and her girl.
They weren't even talking aboutthis.
And her friend just said, Hey,my mom left when I was three
years old.
And the woman was like, what?
And her whole world changed fromthat moment because she had
found someone who had her story.
So that's something else tothink about.
(01:00:07):
We, we keep these things lockedinside.
So I would say just own it.
And really quickly from thebook, women Who Run With the
Wolves, they had three things.
Be open up the secret, speak itinto existence, and write a new
ending.
Write a new ending.
You have the power of the pen.
You can, you can change it fromthe moment that you talk it and
(01:00:30):
write yourself a new ending.
Yes, yes, yes.
And the thing that came up forme is if it has a name, that
means there are a lot of peoplethat have the same experience.
And so in the recovery communitywe walk in and we're like real
with shame because we've madeall these decisions and
(01:00:52):
contracted some STDs and maybebeen to jail and all these
things.
And so when we get in theserooms, recovery's really
powerful'cause we get in andtell the gnarly, gritty, edit
truth about the experience.
And you watch the heads in theroom nod, just like everybody's
nodding now.
And the reminder that if it hasa name, that means many of us
(01:01:12):
have experienced it.
And so I don't, I'm not sure whySTDs came up, but like, hello.
One in like everyone has one.
Okay.
So we can, we can talk about it.
It's okay.
And that's just another exampleof, um.
Something that so many peopleexperience and that we can speak
truth onto.
So thank you for those threeexamples.
(01:01:32):
I'm definitely gonna put thatbook in the show notes too.
And let's go to Casey.
That was powerful.
I was like, whoa, wait a minute.
I, I forgot what I was gonnasay.
Um, I, I, oh yeah.
(01:01:53):
Um, breath can't even get wordsout.
Sorry.
I can't, okay.
I'm gonna follow that back with,I do breath work to calm my
nervous system down.
Um, and I do affirmations.
Um, my grandmother was thequeen.
She passed away a year ago andshe was a queen, and I never
realized it until after shepassed away.
(01:02:16):
The power of what she did in herlife was wake up every morning
putting on her makeup, tellingherself, I am beautiful.
And she got ready every day andI.
I also think the other biggestthing is just speaking it.
Every single one of us in hereare freaking speaking it in some
way or another and it's touchingeverybody.
(01:02:40):
Yeah.
Also the power of podcast,right?
Because all each of us have usedour platforms and podcasts to
speak truth into our ownexperience and everybody's
stories, especially when theyget really personal and you
start like letting out some ofthose secrets.
It is the deepest, most powerfulconnector between me and the
(01:03:01):
listener and you and yourlisteners.
And I'll be on your podcastlike, yes, me too.
I love skinny dippy and so, sothank you for that.
Thank you for your work in theworld, Cana.
Yeah, from my side, I think it's'cause I.
I've done a lot of inner work.
I mean, we all are have, but Imean really if we go to a deep
(01:03:24):
practice that it takes longer.
It is more to, as you say Dana,like get to know ourselves, like
get to know ourselves deeply andaccepting our light and
accepting our shadow becausemore of the shame, it comes from
the shadow.
It's the hidden pieces that wedon't want people to see or
floss, whatever it is in therethat is not accepted by society,
(01:03:46):
culture, et cetera, et cetera.
So once we know which ourshadows are, people can come and
tell you whatever, and you'relike, yeah, so, and I love
myself and it's part of me.
I'm so proud of it.
Fuck off.
Like seriously, you know?
(01:04:08):
So it's, I think that's one ofthe things, like it gave us a
superpower.
The more we get to know love andaccept ourselves, the less shame
we're going to get.
And now, at least for me, whenthere's someone approaching
that, I can feel like, you know,bringing that kind of sense of
shame.
What I do is like, yeah, it'sthe perception of that person.
(01:04:31):
Whatever his life experience hasbeen, it's how they perceive it.
But I don't see it that way andit's great.
That's it.
So the really deep groundinginto who you are and what you
agree with and what you'reavailable for, and you can say,
yes ma'am, or fuck off, eitherway works.
(01:04:52):
Yeah.
Because it's up when you getclear.
Mm-hmm.
It's up to us to give thempermission or not, but we are
conscious and aware enough nowto say, am I gonna allow you?
Yeah.
No, I feel it.
In your bo in my body.
It's warm.
Oh, it's comfort.
Yeah.
I'm not taking it.
Thank you very much.
I'm not taking it.
That is gorgeous.
(01:05:12):
I, I want to lay out one more,and this came straight from your
inspo, Jen, one more practicethat I'm gonna call all of us
forward.
Everybody here, everybody outthere who's listening is the
practice of being a shameinterceptor.
And so I'll give you an example.
When I, we talked, we alreadytalked about my thigh, so let's
talk about my ass for a second.
(01:05:33):
So I have a juicy booty, likeit's juicy.
I, and, and I used to feelashamed of it until one woman
pulled me aside when I made aself deprecating remark about my
butt.
And she said, don't you knowthat men love the juiciest
booties?
And from not that like my wholeworthiness is dependent upon
men, but it was when the momentthat I stepped in my own sacred
(01:05:55):
sexuality and started walkingaround the world like my ass was
fine.
And guess what happened?
Everybody else.
Started to agree and align and Ifelt sexier and I felt more in
my own body.
And so I'm able to, now, mysecond daughter, God bless her,
she's the one with the juiciestboot at our house and my oldest
daughter is, is thin.
And so she'll say somethinglike, oh, Audrey's bat.
(01:06:17):
And I'm like, oh no, she's gotthe juiciest boot in the house.
Like it's something to love andcherish.
And so my daughters and I twerkaround the house just like
showing off what we've got andreally loving what is, and we
intercept that.
So when someone else makes aremark that is intended for
shame, whether it's consciouslyor from the systems, we
(01:06:38):
intercept it in whatever wayfeels authentic to you, you
might not be willing to tell thelady in the stall to fuck off.
But I am.
I.
But you could do something alittle bit more nuanced with the
people with whom you have themost sacred influence.
So starting in your mirror andthen starting in your bedroom,
and then going into yourcommunity and going into the
(01:07:00):
lives that you touch andintercepting that shame in a way
that feels really good.
So to close this out.
I've invited each of ourpanelists to share what we're
gonna call a power sentence toany woman listening right now
who feels the sense of shame.
And by the way, when we startspeaking about our own shame,
(01:07:20):
it's like everyone resonates.
So you probably have alreadyfelt a little bit of the warmth
today, right?
Because when we talk about it,it's infectious.
Okay?
So I, I invited each of ourpanelists to offer one sentence
to any woman listening who feelslike she's in shame now, or
stuck in a shame from the past.
And she's like, what do I do?
So, uh, the floor is open, onepower sentence to anybody who's
(01:07:45):
listening, who feels stuck inshame in Casey, you can lead us
off.
I love you.
I see you.
I hear you.
Your story matters.
And I'm here to celebrate youall the way through it.
(01:08:06):
Jen, you're not alone and youdeserve love, and you deserve to
pursue whatever makes you feelgood or that you are a part of
something bigger.
You deserve it.
Yes, not alone, and you deserveit.
And pursue what makes you comealive.
Thank you, Tracy.
(01:08:28):
I want a juicy booty.
Um, I would say love yourself.
Know yourself.
Don't let anybody tell you whoyou are and share your story.
Share it.
Bring it to the light.
Yes.
Share that story as a, as avehicle for healing and change
(01:08:49):
and liberation and freedom.
Ah, thank you.
Tracy Cana.
Yeah.
All, all beautiful chairs.
If you are on your own name it,say it out loud.
Put a super hot song and shakeit off because that shame is
gonna, is stain in your body,freaking shake it out out and
(01:09:15):
dance it until you're tired.
It looks sexy doing it.
You know what I mean?
Like using pleasure as the Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Out.
And my, my sentence for you isget in community.
Get in community, because shame,hates.
(01:09:37):
When the story arises, it hateswords wrapped around it.
It wants us to stay separated.
So get yourself in community,whether it's a community
mastermind, whether it's aspiritual community or recovery
community, or a sexy bitchcommunity, or a writer's
community, whatever it is,because in community, we
remember that we're all one,that we're connected, our hearts
(01:10:00):
are connected, and that ourdeepest shame ultimately gets to
be the source of our greatestpower.
Because let me tell yousomething straight from Tracy.
When you tell the nitty grittygnarliest details of your story,
there is a woman within yourradius who's gonna say, me too.
(01:10:21):
And together you have set eachother free.
So I wanna go back to thedefinition of shame as a
reminder of who you actuallyare.
When I say who the fuck you are,this is what you're gonna
remember.
Shame is the intensely painfulfeeling or experience of
believing that we are flawed andtherefore unworthy of love,
belonging, and connection.
(01:10:42):
So the antidote is in thedefinition we are worthy.
Have you ever asked yourself,who am I?
Really?
What's my purpose?
Here you go.
Write it down.
Number one, we are worthy oflove.
We are love.
Number two, we are worthy ofbelonging.
You are belonging.
And number three, we are worthyof connection.
You are the connection.
(01:11:03):
The connection to the infinite,the connection to the women in
your lives, the connection tothe woman in the mirror.
You are love, you are belonging,you are connection.
And the assignment now is to goout and tell the truth about
your experience so you canbridge the gap for the next
woman who feels like she's aloneand drowning in her own shame.
Can I get an amen on a weak day?
(01:11:26):
Amen.
Okay, so to close this out.
I just want to say as areminder, shame is something
that we have.
It's not something that we are,and our story is something that
we've experienced.
It's not who we are.
Remember that we're whole andwe're worthy, and we're powerful
(01:11:46):
beyond even our wildest dreams.
So I'm so grateful for you,Cana, and Casey and Tracy and
Jen, thank you for your stories.
Thank you for your liberatingtruth.
Thank you for your work in theworld.
Thank you, gorgeous listener forwho you are and who you get to
be.
Now that you know theassignment, may we all move into
(01:12:08):
the rest of our lives a littlemore, less shameful, and a whole
lot more free.
Cheers to the shameless woman.
Woo.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Love y'all.
Did you just feel the fire, theemotions, all the feelings in
(01:12:32):
this conversation, thisconversation on shame is truly,
truly powerful.
And I wanna thank all my podsisters and Dana for hosting it
and.
Just all my depositors for beingso vulnerable and open about our
stories.
And the truth is, is this ispermission for you to realize
(01:12:54):
that whatever shame you've beencarrying, holding onto, it's not
yours.
So as we close out 2025, let'sbe done with it, friends.
Let's be done with it.
I hope you love this episode.
(01:13:15):
I would love your feedback, soplease reach out to me and I
will leave all my pod sisters.
Contact information in the shownotes so you can contact each
one of them as well.
Saying goodbye to shame in 2025and leaving it behind us.
It is no longer ours to carrywith us.
(01:13:39):
Thank you for tuning intoanother episode.
I hope today's story inspiredyou to embrace your own journey
of growth and change.
Remember, transformation isn'talways easy, but it's always
worth it.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe.
Share it with a friend, andleave a review.
If you found something thatsparked you in this episode and
may spark a friend, I encourageyou to go share with them.
(01:14:01):
If you have your own story youwould like to share, I would
love to hear it.
So please reach out to me.
Until next time, friends, gohave some fun and let those
sparks lie.
Hey friends.
Welcome to the Enter Sparkpodcast.
I'm your host, Casey Caton.
If you're looking to hearstories of transformation and
personal growth, this podcast isfor you.
My guest and I will be sharingthose sparking moments that has
changed the mental living a morefulfilling authentic life.
I'm so excited for you to heareach unique story.
(00:29):
So sit back, relax, and let'sget started.
Hey friends.
Welcome back to the Enter Specpodcast.
I'm your host, Casey Taton.
Today is a special episode withmy pod sisters, and we are
(00:52):
talking about a very, verypowerful topic, shame, how we
shame ourselves, how we holdonto shame, and.
The she that we've carried withus throughout our lives.
I wanna thank Dana Hunter Fela,the host of The Girls Who
Recover podcast.
(01:13):
She's gonna be leading usthrough this, and you'll also
hear my other pod sisters, TracyHill, Kana, Sue and Jen Chambers
am just gonna jump right inbecause this is a great
conversation and I hope that youjust listen with an open heart,
open body, and open mind.
And see how it resonates withyou.
(01:36):
Hello, gorgeous.
I am so grateful that you'rejoining us for this powerhouse
conversation about the shamelesswoman because shame is something
that every single one of us, aswomen knows intimately and also
one of the hardest things tospeak about.
(01:58):
So I'm offering so much love andappreciation for our gorgeous
panelists who are here today tolead us in conversation around
the dream of the shamelesswoman.
And before we start, I want todo a couple of things so that we
can settle into like, what is,what do we mean by shame and
(02:19):
what does shame actually mean?
And I wanna bring in the energyand spirit of shame researcher
and ultimate goddess BreneBrown.
And she has an incredibleepisode on shame and
accountability, and I will linkthat in the show notes.
But pulling from some of thecore concepts that Brene teaches
(02:39):
about shame, I wanna speak to acouple of parts of it.
So let's give shame adefinition, shall we?
And uh, panelists, I will putthis in the chat just so you, we
are having a shared workingdefinition of what are we
actually talking about when wetalk about shame?
So this is straight from BreneBrown, and she says that shame
(03:01):
is the intensely painful feelingor experience of believing that
we are flawed.
And therefore unworthy of love,belonging, and connection.
So that has a lot of energybehind it.
So I'm gonna take a breath withyou and we're gonna read it
again.
(03:22):
Shame is the intensely painfulfeeling or experience of
believing that we are flawed andtherefore unworthy of love,
belonging, and disconnection,and con and connection.
And I wanna come outta my seatand do an Onfi dance around
that.
Because the mission of girls whorecover is to, at the core of
(03:45):
it, help women transform theirMA biggest setbacks into their
most gorgeous comebacks.
And shame is one of theheaviest, most powerful weapons
that gets in the way of doingthat.
So I feel so called forward tohave this conversation about
shame.
And we will continue to talkabout shame until the cows come
home, or until every woman inthe world can walk around
(04:08):
remembering that she is worthyof love, she is the belonging
and she is connection.
We're not just worthy of thosethings.
We are those things.
And so oftentimes two, these twowords get mixed up.
So I wanna clarify thedifference between guilt and
shame.
(04:29):
If you're a part of the recoverycommunity, you're probably
familiar with the phrase guilt,shame, and remorse, which is
what we all walk in with, uh,when we are approaching the
transformation of setback tocomeback, but to differentiate
guilt and shame.
Shame is, I am bad and guilt isI did something bad.
(04:50):
And so I wanna bring it to theelementary school level.
I have three daughters, youprobably know this one's five,
one's eight, and one's 10.
And they all have thesebeautiful, gorgeous, expansive
imaginations.
My second daughter has thebiggest imagination, so
sometimes what comes out of hermouth is very imaginative.
And we've had this beautifulconversation in the car where
(05:12):
I'll say, Audrey, I'm not surethat's true.
Is that true?
And she's like, yeah, it's true.
And then my older daughter,who's conscious mind is
developed and she's got a sassysense of self and she says,
Audrey, you're a liar.
And I'm like, whoa, hold on.
Hold on one second because youare or I am, implies that you
(05:33):
are bad or you are unworthy oryou are disconnected.
So I've gotten up on the box andsaid like, we got to be mindful
of what comes after the great Iam.
But we paused that conversationand I said, no, no, no, no, no,
we're not.
So Audrey don't receive that.
Instead, Audrey is a beautifulchild of the infinite who told a
(05:54):
lie.
You see the difference?
It's not who she is, it's abehavior that she exhibited it.
So I wanna to differentiate thatshame is I am bad.
It's that feeling of.
It's hot for you, right?
Hot.
It sort of washes over you.
I feel it in my chest and mystomach and it's like, oh, I am.
And it's an attachment to whoyou are.
(06:17):
And guilt is, I am a beautifulchild of the infinite and I did
this thing that doesn't alignwith who I am.
And I think we get thoseconfused.
So I wanna set the recordstraight.
Thank you Brene, for helpingwith that because we are here to
have the conversation about whowe actually are and step into
(06:37):
our assignment to be theshameless woman.
So two things she mentions, andthen I'm gonna turn it over and
introduce our panelists isnumber one, we all have shame.
Every single person breathing.
In my opinion, I think womenhave more of it.
That may be because I work witha lot of women and I get to hear
(06:57):
about it all the time.
Uh, if you're a man listening,let us know.
Shame is something everybodyhas.
And the second thing is ain'tnobody like to talk about it.
Nobody likes to, likes to talkabout shame.
So I want to commend two things.
One is my, our guests for beinghere, and two is you for
listening because shame says,how dare you go there.
(07:17):
Don't you dare talk about us.
Don't you doubt, dare tell thetruth.
Don't you dare shine the light.
Then you might remember thatwe're actually all connected,
that we're all the same in manyways, and that we are all on
assignment, which is to love andexperience both compassion and
empathy for each other.
Okay, so we got it.
We got the definition of shame.
(07:39):
We've got the differencebetween.
I am bad and I did somethingbad.
And the last thing I wanna say,because this might be one of the
most important things that youhear, is how we experience
shame.
And guilt often comes down tothe way that we talk to each
ourselves, the way that we talkto ourselves, and the way that
(08:00):
we talk to each other.
But since we talk to ourselvesthe most, I wanna bring it back
to we are in, I'm gonna pick upmy wand.
Your wand, meaning your agency,your awareness, your
responsibility for you, and yourfeelings and your emotions, and
your experience of life in theworld.
And so it's great news that itcomes down to the way that we
(08:20):
talk to ourselves, because guesswho can change that?
You got it?
Okay.
So without further ado.
I am, it is my great pleasure tointroduce our, our shameless
woman panelists, who a, alsohappen to be, uh, some of my
closest and dearest friends.
We have shared a mastermindtogether, uh, for over a year.
(08:44):
All of these women areincredible in their own right.
Mm-hmm.
We all have podcasts, which ishow we met.
So, and then we all have our ownunique business in the world.
All of all of us are here toelevate the consciousness of
women everywhere and some of usin different ways.
So I'm going to transition tothe panelists and I'll introduce
(09:06):
each of you with a sentence,bio, and then ask you an intro
question.
You'll have about two minutes,and then we'll swap.
Sounds good.
Beautiful.
Okay.
So I've asked each of thepanelists to share a personal
story about how shame has shownup in their lives, what it kept
them from, and then what itshifted when they began, when
(09:30):
they began to name it.
And so I would love to startwith, um.
The CEO and founder of abeautiful Fix, my gorgeous
friend Tracy Hill.
And Tracy Hill is the creator ofa Beautiful Fix, which is a
podcast and a movement helpingwomen stop chasing external
(09:53):
answers and start trusting thewisdom within, while
reconnecting with the wonder andawe that makes life feel
beautiful again.
And she's a certified humandesign guide.
A retreat host, yes.
And a self-love advocate guidingwomen to feel high on life.
(10:16):
You know, I love that one.
Beautiful fix at a time.
So Tracy, I will turn it over toyou.
Can you share a little bit abouthow shame has shown up in your
life, what it's kept you fromand how it's shifted when you
started to name it?
Absolutely.
So, you know, Dana, it'sinteresting because when you
asked me to be on a panel aboutshame, I was like, I'm in
(10:37):
because it's Dana.
And I knew the, the amazingwomen that would be on this
panel with me.
But to be honest, I thoughtshame's not really my thing.
Like I don't have a relationshipwith shame.
I don't really, I don't nowguilt lives with me like that is
my girl guilt is always here.
And I was like, I.
But then I started thinkingabout it and I watched Brene
(11:01):
Brown's, um, talk,'cause I loveher.
I read a chapter and um, thisbook that I have women who run
with wolves all about shame.
And I thought, oh my gosh, Iabsolutely have shame.
For some reason I don't reallyassociate myself with it.
That's not something I wouldimmediately go to.
But when I started thinking backon my life, I realized I've
always had shame.
(11:22):
Um, I've always wanted to bethe.
Perfect girl, you know, daddy'slittle girl and doing the right
things.
And it kept me really on thestraight and arrow because I
never wanted to do anythingwrong.
I think the first, first momentwhere I really, truly
experienced shame was Ideveloped before some of my
friends.
I was stick thin, very, verythin, but I developed a chest.
(11:43):
Um, and I swam every single dayand I was, I don't know how old
I was, but 10, 11, somethinglike that.
But I hopped out of the pool.
We had a public pool right nextdoor to me, and I hopped outta
the pool and one of the guysscreamed, Tracy Brown, that's my
maiden name.
Tracy Browns, got tennis balls.
And I was so embarrassed.
(12:05):
I was so embarrassed.
Everyone turned and looked atme.
I hated having people, you know,notice me.
And from that moment I startedto slouch.
I wore a t-shirt to the pool.
From that day on, I never worejust a, a bathing suit again.
And I carry that with me.
And so, um, my life has kind ofbeen, that's kind of been my
relationship with shame.
I'm very.
Getting in trouble in school, Iwould feel intense shame.
(12:28):
Um, if my parents, if I didsomething wrong, I felt shame.
But it's followed me.
And even in my adult years, Irealized, you know, I left my
career in 2020 and, um, I had nobusiness doing it.
It was not a, it wasn'tsomething that, it was like, oh,
I planned it out.
I just kinda left.
I left my family hanging and Iremember leaving feeling intense
(12:50):
shame and knowing that I wasgonna have to, I told my husband
beforehand that I was obviouslygoing to, to leave, but I hadn't
told my children.
And I remember the moment wherewe were gonna call my two sons
that were in college.
We called my two sons that wereliving at home in, and that
moment where I was gonna tellthem I felt immense shame over
what I had done.
Um, but when I mentioned it tothem.
(13:14):
I was ready to start explainingmyself and, you know, begging
for their forgiveness.
And instead, and I told thisstory to you before Dana, my
oldest son smiled.
Um, both of my older sons smiledand, and, and the boys that were
in the room with me, and Iremember my oldest saying,
congratulations, mom.
And so I think that's really,and I, I'm sure we're gonna get
(13:35):
into this later, that is thething with shame is, and BNE
talks about this, it's secrecy.
It's that everyone wants tobelong, they wanna feel
included.
It's that keeping silent.
But the moment you can speak itinto existence, you know, it
kind of dissipates.
So.
Those are just some examples.
The other one I'll share is Irecently went skinny dipping,
(13:58):
and I have never done that in mylife, ever because of shame,
shame of my body, shame of theidea of someone else seeing me.
It was just something I nevereven wanted to do.
But recently, um, and my pool,my own pool, some friends
mentioned that they had goneskinny dipping.
And I thought, I've never donethat in my life.
And I thought, I'm going to doit.
And, um, I did it.
(14:19):
Yes, it was midnight.
Yes, there was no light outsideexcept for the moonlight.
But in that moment, I rememberbeing in the pool thinking, why
have I felt shame about doingsomething like this?
Or just showing my body?
Not that anyone could see it,you know, but it just, it made
me think about why do we carrythis shame?
And I definitely agree that Ithink women take on way more
(14:41):
shame than men.
But, but I'll stop there.
So that, that's my introductionto my life with shame.
Thank you Tracy.
And also check out that podcastepisode on a Beautiful Fix about
her first experience, skinnydipping.
'cause it's so fun.
It is so fun.
And then the, the other thing Iheard is the ways that shame
(15:04):
shows up for us.
So you mentioned in yourchildhood, you mentioned at
school, you mentioned with yourbody, you mentioned with your
family, you mentioned with yourcareer.
So it is so sneaky and it showsup in all the corners of life.
So thank you Tracy.
Absolutely.
Next we will hear from thegorgeous, legendary CEO and
(15:28):
founder of Midlife Butterfly.
My friend Cana Ou and Cana isthe founder of Midlife Butterfly
and the host of the MidlifeButterfly podcast, and she helps
women move through life'sbiggest transition.
So listen up, midlifers.
Going through transitions,divorce, loss, reinvention, and
(15:50):
awakening, guiding them to comehome to themselves, reconnect
with their soul and body, andcreate lives of freedom, love,
and joy.
That is like a spiritual orgasm.
Just reading out loud.
Okay.
Try to think your work in theworld.
Oh, I love us so much.
(16:12):
Okay, so same, same question toyou.
If you will share with us whatshame has looked like in your
life and what you've done toshine the light on it.
Yes, thank you.
Uh.
It also comes to the body as, asTracy was sharing, before I was
13 years years old, I went tovisit a friend.
(16:35):
My parents were, I dunno, I wentto see this friend.
My parents were in the car.
So I go and knock the door andhis little brother open the, the
door.
And then somebody screamed,like, who is there?
And he said, oh, it's a, askinny, tall girl with glasses
and braces.
(16:59):
And that stood with me.
I mean, and still is stillthere, right?
So ends up, his brother was notthere.
I came back to the car and thenI was f furious.
I was like so, so mad.
And my parents just like, whathappened?
So I told them and they justlaugh about it.
(17:20):
'cause you know, it was.
I guess it was funny they didn'tknow else, like what to do or
what to ask, you know?
Uh, but I didn't realize thatstood with me, uh, until, uh, I
don't know, probably a decade orsomething so many years later.
And the consequences of that wasthat again, like hiding my body.
(17:46):
And, um, like me, for example,I, when I turned 15, you know,
in Mexico we have thequinceaneras and everything.
At that time, like my chest wasstill, you know, plain.
I don't know when they grow andit was afterwards.
But even like, I got the shame,you know, for my body, for my
looks, that I will.
(18:07):
Like in university, I wasalready, you know, having nice
boobs and everything and myfriends were like, where's
something that you can showthem?
Like, you're so nice and sexyand stuff.
But in my mind I was stillprobably like this skinny girl,
you know?
And that got rejected becausethat's how I took it.
I took that comment as arejection and that became my
(18:30):
main wound.
And because of that, of coursehas affected my life and going
to, you know, big gatherings, Iwould be the one in the corner
hiding or just for my business.
It's took me like two years todo the first video.
I was so afraid of it.
And again, I was afraid of beingseen.
(18:50):
So the consequences just for andsimple between quotes, comment
of this little kid describingwho I was, the effect they had
in my life was like very.
Yeah, it was really what, whatis the word?
Daunting.
It was really there.
(19:11):
So by working in my wound ofrejection, that's how it's been,
like the process of deeming andclearing up that shame.
So I'm hearing a couple ofsimilarities.
One is it starts early,especially for women.
I have that exact sameexperience.
(19:32):
I remember when somebody said Ihad thunder thighs, and I was
like, well, let me add 10 thingsto do to fix my thighs, because
some random boy said thunderthighs.
And that carried with me.
And so I'm hearing that from youtoo.
And you know it's nuancedbecause that person said, uh, to
you, Tracy.
(19:52):
And then the person who said itto me was to shame me.
And it sounds like.
Canna, yours was just someoneobserving something and you took
it as something to shameyourself, something that you
felt.
So it's wrong, could be externaland it co can be internal.
And I also hear it showing up inthe evolution of your business
(20:14):
too.
Your bliss canna calls abusiness bliss.
And why can we please all dothat?
And now if you go check out, andI hope you will, midlife
butterfly and kaya's Instagram,you're gonna see her.
She's sexy all over the placeand she's dancing and she's
teaching women to be on theirown pleasure and appreciate
their own body.
And so this is the power of whathappens when we notice our
(20:37):
shame, when we name it, and thenwhen we do things that we'll
talk about later in the, in thepanel too.
Unleash ourselves from it.
That's gorgeous.
Thank you, Kaya.
Okay, next up is my, I want tocall you my partner in crime.
The biggest spark.
The biggest spark in the game,Casey Taton.
(21:00):
And she is, I'm just adding CEO.
She's CEO and host of the InnerSpark Podcast and founder of
Little Moments, big DreamCelebrations, which is an
organization that brings smilesto kids in the hospital.
And I hope that you'll at somepoint, Casey, talk about how you
(21:22):
see shame showing up for yourkiddos too, because I'm sure
it's there.
But for now, can you speak intoyour own experience of shame?
Maybe tell us a story and howit's shown up, what it's kept
you from, and if it's shifted atall when you started to name it.
Thanks Dana.
Um, yeah, so.
(21:43):
Listening to the other beautifulladies, I realized there's
definitely a theme here of, um,I had spinal meningitis when I
was a baby, and I don't rememberit.
I was so young.
However, my family continues totalk about it, and so I always
felt the shame of I didsomething wrong or I was bad for
(22:07):
having something that caused myfamily so much pain and yeah.
Oh, sorry.
It's big.
Um, and then as I got older, I,I was, I was a competitive
roller skater and we were,weight was a huge thing.
(22:29):
We had to watch our, we wore thelittle dresses.
And I was young when I started.
I was like five when I started,and I went all the way into like
high school or middle school,start skating all over the
world.
And we wore the little bittydresses and weight was a huge
thing.
And I remember one of my coachessaying like, what is she eating?
(22:49):
And my mom was like, I'm givingher a snack every day here.
Like we, I would go straightfrom school to the skating rink
to practice.
We practice seven days a week.
And, um, it was just like, well,we're gonna have to change your
snacks because you're getting alittle bit bigger.
Bigger as in like, I'm growingand I'm hitting puberty.
Like, how can you change that?
(23:12):
And I, yeah.
And so I think I've always beenconscious of my weight.
Um, as I got older, I was, Iswitched to, you know, soccer
playing.
I did things I always wanted tobe, uh, daddy's little girl I
was.
Still am grown adult.
Um, but I switched to sportsthat my brother was playing and,
(23:36):
um, I wanted to Oh, oh, wow.
You, you caught me off guard,Dana.
Thanks.
Um, you know, I started playingsoccer.
I started playing golf.
I was the runner, did all thethings so I could connect with
them.
Um, and also I tried, I think inschool I tried super hard.
(23:58):
My brother was just naturallysmart and I was not.
And so I think there was shamearound like, why am I not the
smart one?
Why am I always the one thatseems to be causing like all the
problems?
And then as I got older, as anadult, um, I thought a rear
(24:18):
condition and my life stopped.
And then I had scars.
And so until a few years ago,um, I didn't talk about it.
I was embarrassed to show mybody.
Um, I was embarrassed to show myscars and also to let my voice
be heard and to let people knowthat it's okay to freaking have
(24:40):
badass scars.
And it doesn't matter what sizewe are, that we're all freaking
amazing human beings, andthere's so much light in all of
us.
That is gorgeous.
That's so gorgeous, Casey.
And I'm hearing somesimilarities with body, with
body image, and with what otherpeople say about our bodies.
(25:04):
Just so curious, which we thenbring into our own internal
monologue.
I want to call it dialogue, butit's really not.
It's me talking to me, you know?
And then also the.
I wanna call that the compoundeffect.
So shame when we're little andthen it compounds and then it
compounds and then it compoundsand it looks like as an adult.
(25:28):
And we'll get there.
Like what I, I really appreciatehow we're going backwards and
like talking about childhoodshame and also wanna invite us.
Deeper in the panel to talkabout current shame.
Uh, it's this shame is doingwhat she does.
She's like, yeah, talk aboutwhat it used to be like when
you're little.
That's like super easy and no,no shame in the game, but like
protect, uh, just to protectyour, um, your brain.
(25:51):
We're gonna go to current shame.
Okay, everybody.
And on the listener side, I betmaybe you're thinking about
childhood shame too, which is ofcourse where it all begins.
And then the question now iswhat, what, where are the
blinders?
Which shame, which blinders haveshame put on me now that's in
current day ex expression of mylife.
(26:12):
So, thank you Casey.
And Casey, you didn't mentionthis.
I'm, I'm inviting you to, uh, atsome point speak into it.
About the work that you do now,but Casey is a huge light in the
world.
So with her podcast and herorganization, she has used her
walkthrough shame to create morelife for the most vulnerable,
(26:38):
lovely, gorgeous little peopleon the earth.
So hopefully you get to speak tothat Casey and definitely follow
her.
Follow her journey in the links,in the show notes.
So next, we are transitioning tomy favorite.
I'm, I'm not gonna, I loveeverybody's podcasts here.
I promise.
I love all of you and I listento you and you're all
(27:00):
incredible.
But the one that I wake up onThursday and I'm like, same
Crime, different Time is comingout.
The founder and host of that ismy good friend, Jen Chambers.
And Jen Chambers is also awriter, publisher, and the host
of Beyond the Margins, with JenChambers and Same Crime,
different Time, both podcasts.
(27:22):
She's also a TEDx organizer, agraduate of the Iowa Women
Summer Writing Program.
I don't know why I threw womenin there.
Tattoo, it's not women.
Let me read it again.
Graduate of the Iowa SummerWriting Program, and she's
dedicated to helping othersshare their stories.
So, Jen, same question.
(27:42):
Tell us about shame, what it'skept you from, and how you have
shined light on it in your life.
You know, I'm so excited to behere with you guys.
It's every, every time we allmeet together, it's my favorite
day.
And this is even better.
It's so interesting to talkabout shame.
I feel like shame is my originstory.
(28:04):
You know, shame is my, um, I wasintroduced to shame, I guess,
um, kind of at my very beginningbecause I had a brain injury and
after my car accident that I gotmy brain injury in relearning
how to be like everyone else wasmy number one goal.
(28:27):
I always felt so ashamed becauseI was intrinsically not, there
was no way, I didn't feel like Icould bridge the gap to be like
everyone else.
And so every walk was,everything I did made me feel
inadequate and not enough.
Um, not because I think anyoneelse told me I was, but I took
(28:49):
that on because I could see thatI didn't match.
And it was terrifying.
It was so terrifying.
So in a lot of ways, um, a lotof the things that I have done
has been to, to stop that shamefrom, from happening, um, and
working really, really hard allthe time to make sure that
(29:10):
nobody sees the, um, the manbehind the mirror, you know, all
I think that, that it's servedme well in a lot of ways, but
I've kind of bent over backwardsa lot to try and be what
everyone else wants me to be.
Rather than figure out what Iwant for myself.
So that's been my work of thelast 10 years probably trying to
(29:33):
figure out how to listen to whatI want and my, my own, my own
needs and my own, um, thethings, the places that I want
to go.
Uh, I really liked also that youguys were talking, I mean, I
didn't, like it is the wrongword, but I think that we all
have so much in common as women,um, when we speak about shame in
(29:56):
our bodies.
Because one of my earliestmemories after I came back from
my brain injury and all that, Ican, and it's funny'cause I
hadn't thought about it foryears, but hearing you guys talk
about this completely, I, I wasright back there.
I was mostly recovered.
I was out to dinner with myparents.
I live in, um, in Eugene,Oregon.
(30:18):
So the University of Oregon isthere and, um.
We were having dinner in thisrestaurant on campus, and I get
up and my parents are, haveleft, and a U of O football
player comes up behind me andlike grabs my butt.
And I'm 16 years old and I wasso, I didn't know what to do.
(30:41):
I was just, I was, I mean, andthis was many, many, many years
ago, but I was just so ashamedof myself.
Like, what did I do?
I didn't invite that.
I was just standing therewaiting to go outside or
something.
I don't know.
But, but that was my firstintroduction to that kind of
(31:01):
shame about my body.
And I think that so many womenget so many unwanted comments,
grabs, uh, advances all sorts ofthings.
It's interesting how I'veinternalized that and I just
felt so incredibly ashamed ofmyself at that time and that
kind of.
I didn't realize that it hadstuck with me, but I, I've done
(31:23):
a lot of things to cover myselfup for that reason,
metaphysically and physically,because I, I felt like it was
wrong.
So I think that's reallyinteresting.
And I've spoken to so many womenwho have experiences, um, with
not always men, but often, youknow, that have caused them to
(31:48):
feel a lot of shame.
And I, I, it's very sad, butit's interesting.
And, and to me it's really greatto recognize that it's not about
maybe what happened to me, it'sabout how I'm processing that
chain.
You have just made theinvitation for us to do what I
(32:12):
think might be the mostimportant thing, Jen.
And it's to, to wake up, and Iuse a wand in my practice as a
symbol for many things, but oneis the, the awakening, the, the
awareness of, hey, that thingthat that guy said to me or that
woman said to me.
I, I have an ex, an example thatI've shared before about how I
used to love math.
(32:32):
I'd be obsessed with it, and Itook all advanced math classes
and I was on the acceleratedtrack.
And then when it came time toapply for ap, the, the female
math teacher who was, she'd beenteaching AP Calc forever.
She looked at me and she's like,there's no way you would make it
in this class.
You're not good enough to behere.
(32:52):
And so from that moment on, I exI did a couple of things.
One is I got that hot feelingof, of shame, I'm not good
enough.
I'm disconnected from not, notjust my peers, but also my
identity of who I believed I wasand what was true for me.
And then carried that throughinto almost adulthood until I
(33:14):
woke up and realized I went tothis really fancy college and I
said, well, I guess I'll have totake remedial math classes.
And I just, you know, so when,uh, part of the, part of the
work is waking up and realizing,so when I realized that I had
just taken that woman's opinionand made it my identity, I
(33:34):
thought, well, maybe I couldrelease that.
And then the universe knows whatshe's doing.
So I ended up teaching fifth andsixth grade math for a short
time, and which was so funbecause my kiddos would come in
and say, oh, I'm not good atmath.
I was like, up until today.
And today we're changing thatagreement.
And, and let it be as simple asthat.
(33:55):
And repeating and repeating.
So thank you, Jen, for thereminder that we get to start
questioning what's real and whatwe agreed with and, and
wondering without shame, like,oh, carried that around for like
20 years.
Like, that's interesting.
And so today could be the dayto, to let that go, to change
the agreement and to decide, yousaid something else that was
(34:18):
really beautiful.
What I actually want and who Iactually am to this deep
authenticity of the ask thatyour soul is making about, that
shows up in evidence of doingthings that you love.
Thank you so much.
So our next question is, thefloor is open and it's about the
(34:38):
anatomy of shame.
And the question for each of youis, what systems do you think
most fuel the feelings of shamefor women specifically in
society?
So maybe family or friendships,religion, culture, politic, any,
take this anywhere you go andyou'd like to go.
(35:00):
And then if you could make itpersonal.
So yes, conceptual andtheoretical.
And also could you bring us intoa, uh, the heartbeat of a moment
where you or someone that youlove and serve experienced shame
as a result of this.
And so I'm, I'm gonna go firstjust to warm us up.
I was raised in a southernBaptist religion and also sent
(35:24):
to Catholic school, so it wasvery confusing.
Very confusing.
And one thing that I love mostabout my life and still do is I
loved animals.
I was raised on a farm.
They, we just, just obsessedwith them.
And one day we, um, were drivingto school and one of our dogs
(35:45):
was on the road and she wasgone.
She, she was with the Lord and Iwas so devastated.
And I went to, you know, I'm insecond grade, so that makes you
what?
Like seven.
And I went to the priest andsaid, pumpkin's with Jesus in
heaven now.
And at that time, the Catholicchurch had a different, um.
Uh, stance on what happens tothe pet's souls and they do now.
(36:08):
So thanks Pope Francis for shiftshaking that up for us.
But at that time, the past, thepriest informed me that, oh no,
pumpkin was not with the Lord inheaven.
There was no soul for pumpkin.
And so she just didn't existanymore.
And I felt so much like I, Ifelt so ashamed because I
trusted in this religion, Itrusted in this the son of God.
(36:30):
I trusted in all the things.
And then I felt this hotwash ofthat's not true and I've been
lied to.
And not to mention the countlessother things that the Catholic
church was like.
And if you do this, you're goingto hell.
And if you do this, youdefinitely don't have any sex.
'cause then you're definitelygoing to hell.
So before I even went to thefifth grade, I was sitting in
mass and I was like, well whyeven bother?
(36:52):
'cause I'm definitely going tohell.
Anyway.
I've done way too much to evenconsider being good.
The good.
Girl.
And so it was really deflatingon that.
And I know I went to childhood,but I carried that all the way
into my first and second year ofrecovery where I got a new lease
(37:13):
on what it means to be a womanof the spirit of the universe.
And that religion andspirituality are not the same.
So starting from childhood andthen carrying it really angstily
into current day reality andrecovery.
And with that, we'll go to Cana.
Yeah.
So from my side, I think, youknow, shame is for what I'm
(37:38):
gonna share is more, comes morefrom family and, uh, in the case
religion, which is about sex,not considering a taboo and not
talk about it.
And, and then from there, Iguess it comes the shame of
women of us.
(37:59):
Having a menstrual period andthen shaming.
If we got a stain at one point,if we are like having a tantrum,
because we are in our PMS andunfortunately we haven't had
that kind of culture, we don'thave it like how our hormones
(38:20):
move around, how we supposed to,we can actually go through them
and then we feel shame becausewe are behaving differently or
because we feel like eating morejunk food or you know, or
different mechanisms that ourbody has because he's just going
(38:41):
through these moon cycles every,every month.
And um, and one of the thingsthat at least happened to me
related to sex itself is thefact that.
Well, I guess I gotta give a bitof story before that is the
(39:04):
fact, like my very, very firstlove, we were together for four
years and, uh, we never had sex.
And we never had sex because offear.
Like his brothers and sisters,all of them got married from my
side.
My brother got, well, gotpregnant, no, sorry, not
(39:25):
married, pregnant from, from myside.
Also my brother, my cousin, thatI'm a bit older than her.
So it was so much fear that wenever had, you know, we never
made love.
And, and that came as aconsequence of what I picked up
on that at some point that Ijust discovered like five years
(39:48):
ago.
It was the fact that I thoughtthat I didn't deserve pleasure.
And I used to relate pleasureonly to sex, but we can have
pleasures for many, many things.
Like, I'm just having such apleasure having this
conversation with all of you.
You know?
So then that's the thing, likestarting to see pleasure from a
(40:12):
different place, from adifferent perspective, not only
related, uh, to sex.
And it has just been an oddthing, uh, like completely
different.
And it's been always somethingthat I was like, yeah, pleasure.
And I even have it in my, in mydesktop, uh, among all the
wordings and, you know,affirmations that I have there.
(40:34):
The word pleasure is there.
And no coincidence that theuniverse at this time, I am
actually taking a, acertification, um, as a neuro
epigenetic breathing coach.
This certification has been justblowing my mind because the
mentor, what she talks about asus as human beings, we are sex,
(41:00):
love, and consciousness, butunfortunately we have been
fragmented.
Right?
No, love is one thing, sex isanother thing, and then
consciousness is something else.
It's like, hell no.
I mean, we have everything inour body.
So for me, trying now, you know,like really understanding and
(41:23):
embodying that part of saying,yes, we are sex and we are love.
And when we think about it, it'slike, of course we come from
those two elements from ourparents.
They have sex and love,otherwise we were not here, you
know?
But it's just crazy how muchthen we can have that.
(41:45):
Shame of not talking about sexand pleasure and sensuality when
it's part of ourselves.
And that's what I'm like now.
It's like, you know, bringing iton and that's what I'm tuning in
more with my body and I can'twait to bring this to, to the
world for me to be able to shareit because it's so important for
(42:07):
us to, again, talking like, youknow, just hearing this panel,
all the shame that we carry inour bodies for a comment of
someone like, how come it's thatpossible that it can carry us
through how many decades?
So the more we can tune in withour bodies that we more we can
(42:28):
love ourselves and care forourselves, then that shame
starts to, to them away.
That's how I feel it.
Yeah, so love, sex, andconsciousness.
And if you're not watching thevideo, I want you to know that
when Cana was talking aboutperiods and menstruation and
(42:48):
sex, all of the women's headswere nodding and nodding and
nodding and nodding.
And so I'm seeing a theme hereof periods and sex and making
love.
And I'll just add orgasms andself-pleasure and this
disconnection from who we are aswomen and our own sexuality,
(43:09):
which is inherent, it's core,and it's so important.
And as I'm learning recently,might be the biggest blocker to
creating a manifesting abundancethat putting the lid on the sex
sacred sexuality of self.
And so, yes, and then also, didanybody hear the song?
Let's talk about sex, be B.
(43:29):
Let's, okay.
You did too.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Great.
Awesome.
Okay.
Pass to you, Tracy.
Yeah, so.
Um, I was just thinking aboutthis.
I.
You ask kind of where does shamecome from?
And I believe it's just, again,it's this, it's this sense of
belonging.
I think we all wanna belong.
And ever since I was a littlegirl, I felt like I never
(43:50):
belonged.
I never, I was always different,no matter how much I wanted to
just blend something, always, ifeveryone was over there, I was
thinking this.
But the one thing I was gonnashare is, um, I have never been
religious.
My family's never beenreligious.
My mom was raised, um, Catholic,Episcopalian, but she was raised
in the Catholic school systemand it just terrified her.
(44:12):
She just felt the fear all thetime about all the sin and the
nuns, and she was afraid of'em.
And so when she had herchildren, she had us baptized,
but she would read to us fromthe Bible and she would just
say, guys, be good every day andnot just on Sunday.
And that was literally myreligion growing up.
But.
Everyone would always try toshame me for that because other
people were very religious andthey would make me feel bad.
(44:34):
And I feel like I've always beenspiritual, but what I was gonna
share was I've always been intothings that I realized in my
twenties, other people, um,judged.
So I've always been intoastrology.
I don't know where it started,but my parents aren't into it.
I'm sorry, I'm turning off myrobot.
It's making noise.
(44:55):
Um, and they would, um, soanyway, I, I was into crystals
and now that I'm older, I wasinto crystals and tarot cards.
And I remember I had a reallygood friend who, um, I asked him
what his, uh, astrology signwas, his zodiac sign.
I, this guy I thought the worldof, he was super intelligent,
(45:15):
very smart, but he was also aminister.
And he was like, I don't dothat.
And I was like, I don'tunderstand.
And he, then he explained to methat, I guess in the religious
circles.
Um, astrology and all of thatsometimes is, is is not cool.
I remember feeling so much shamein that moment.
I played my whole life back,like, oh my God, what is wrong
with me?
And I put it away.
I stopped.
(45:36):
Even though I'm not religious, Ijust stopped kind of doing it.
And, um, now that I'm older, I'mrealizing I, I don't care what
people think anymore.
Um, but when I was on TikTokabout a year ago, you know,
TikTok is this amazingalgorithm.
Whatever you interact with, it'sgonna send you more of it.
So I'm interacting with all thisdifferent stuff and I started
(45:57):
noticing at the bottom of iteverything was hashtag witch to,
and I was like, oh my God.
Like through my phone.
And again, I was like, what ismy deal?
And I felt so much shame and I'mthinking, I'm looking at stuff
about herbs and natural medicineand the moon and tarot, and.
So I bought a book on witches.
'cause I thought, what is this?
(46:18):
And I'm just gonna say it.
I'm gonna out myself.
I was a hundred percent a witchfor sure in a past life, without
a doubt.
They used to say that if you hadblack cats, you were a witch.
I'm already done there.
I love animals.
I've always had black hats.
Um.
Witches were these amazingpeople.
(46:38):
They just knew about thedifferent seasons and Mother
Earth and how to work with theland and herbs.
And they were healers.
There were these beautiful,amazing women, but men decided
we can't have this.
And there was a, a, anyway, Iwon't, I won't go into all of
it.
So I just, I wanted to outmyself with that because I've
always held back everything thatI'm into from a spiritual
(46:59):
standpoint.
I have been made to feel like itis wrong, and so I kind of hide
it.
And now I'm out there, I'm outthere.
I I, I put it out there.
Human design is, is what I do.
And some people, even with that,because astrology is a part of
it and all of these systems areout there, it's to let you know
that you have the answers.
We don't have to rely on a bookor some other person.
(47:22):
It's within us.
And so I, I will, I'll leave itthere.
Also notice all of our headsnodding with you.
I'm like, yeah, we're widgetstoo.
Yes.
Yes.
And I, I was hoping you wouldmention human design because
knowing ourselves and our energydesign sets us free.
(47:42):
And just a quick example of thatis.
I had a really powerful sessionwith Tracy, and she shared with
me my human design.
And I'm a projector, which meansI'm pretty big source of energy,
but also it's a little bit, Ihave to use it wisely, and it
just brought me so much personalpeace to remember.
(48:03):
Yeah, that's who I am.
No need to be ashamed of howbright the light gets when I
walk into the room, becausebefore that session, I knew I
had a bunch of light and I knewthat I was here to project it,
but I didn't feel like I wasdeserving or as confident as I
did when I walked out of thatand it was an hour session and a
document and I said, let's gochange the world because now we
(48:26):
know who we are and there's zerospace for shame.
And so I cannot recommend thatwork with Tracy.
Enough.
Human design and what it comesdown to that many of us have
said is a deep.
Remembering'cause it's not likewe didn't know, but it's a
remembering of who we actuallyare, not reliant upon.
(48:49):
I'm gonna just call out thepatriarchy, which all those
systems are, you know, andthat's not necess.
I'm not a man hater.
I love man men.
I'm married to one.
He's very hot.
And but what I am saying is thatshame is ensconced in these
structures that we participatein from the first breath.
And that's, that's racism andit's sexism and it's classism
(49:12):
and it's all those things.
And so because there's so muchshame entrenched in those
systems, the most powerful thingwe can do, I have two.
One is to know ourselves so thatwe can then know and love the
woman and the person sits acrossfrom us no matter what.
Remembering that we are all oneand shame's main job is to
(49:34):
separate us.
Thank you Tracy.
Jen, you're on that.
Danny, can I just say Yeah.
One really quick thing?
Mm-hmm.
Just for listeners, normally thething that you are ashamed of or
that you are keeping yourholding yourself down on is your
superpower.
Is the thing that when you turnup the volume, more than likely
that is your gift on the otherside.
Alright.
(49:54):
I'm done.
Thank you Jen.
I think that one of the things Iwas thinking about, so I was
reading your questions.
So what systems fueled most?
Um.
Shame for women.
There's so many things involvedin culture that shame women, all
(50:14):
different kinds of things.
Um, I think one of theinteresting things that, that's
a part of a couple differentsystems is the idea of being a
parent, whether you are or not,how you do it.
Um, there's so, so many waysthat people shame you about it.
Um, interesting.
(50:34):
I thought it was interesting toobecause we have a, a good mix on
this panel.
Some of us are parents, some ofus aren't.
Um, I had an experience oncewhere I had just had one of my
kids, I can't remember whichone, um, and I was in a group of
other women and I went to thebathroom and my kid was safely
(50:56):
in the, their carrier.
Right.
And it was my, that's right.
It was my second son.
There we go.
Now I got it.
And um, I went to the bathroomand I heard them talking about
me in the bathroom.
So I heard them saying somethingabout, um, they wish that I
wasn't there and they couldn'twait for me to leave.
And, um, it was interestingbecause these are, these women
(51:19):
were women who were perfectparents, you know, they were,
they always were the ones whoalways picked their kids up all
the time and went to every PTAmeeting and all of these things.
And I felt so much less thanbecause I was new at, at
parenting this little person.
(51:40):
So I, I think it's reallyinteresting.
So, to finish that story, I, Icalled my husband.
I didn't drive at the time, andI got out of there because I
wasn't gonna be around thosewomen.
But I think it's interesting howwomen in particular can shame
each other about parenting andlack of shame or it, it doesn't
matter.
I, I think it's terrible that,that we're taught that there's.
(52:05):
More value in one way or or theother.
And in how we do it, everybody'sjust trying their best.
I feel like parent or or dog,parent or cat parent.
We're all just trying our best.
And I, I always remember,remember that just because I
think, first of all, I wasstruck by the fact that these
other women we're being so awfulabout something like that.
(52:28):
But yeah.
But you, you, that's a beautifulpoint.
And the reason is not becausethose women are awful, it's
because we're a part of a systemwhere shame is in the water, and
that's why we're here today.
And so what I heard you say is,yes, it's an internal game.
And also can we not be anasshole to each other,
(52:50):
especially women to women, andjust in deciding to be kind and
loving or even curious.
Deciding that if you knew thewhole story, the only thing you
would feel is connection, love,and compassion.
And then moving on with yourday.
Whether you agree or disagree isso powerful.
And then I just wanna addquickly to that is being a mom
(53:11):
and then watching the way thatI'm interfacing with my own
kids.
So I don't, I interrupt thatpassing down.
So when I received a shamingremark from my mom or from my
teacher or whatever, and then itstarts to come outta my mouth to
my own daughters, I wake up andsay, actually, you're an amazing
person and maybe you just made abad choice.
(53:32):
How can we fix it for next time?
But sending my girls to schoolwith a reminder that you are
beautiful daughters of theinfinite, and so is everyone
else in your class.
And what we're looking at rightnow is the types of choices that
we are making.
Do they align with who weactually are?
Which just in case you'reconfused, worthy, loved,
deserving enough, repeat,worthy, loving, deserving
(53:53):
enough.
The end, nothing that we can docan jeopardize that.
And so now the question is aboutthe action.
Casey round us out.
I do not have children of myown, although I feel like I have
a hundred kids out there in theworld and I get to celebrate all
the time.
And the thing that really comesin is there is so much shame
(54:18):
they go through.
And I can relate on my own levelthat the society puts on us
about how we should look and howwe should feel.
Um, these kids that have scarslike me, like they're the ones
that inspired me to like show myscar off.
How can I tell these kidsthey're superheroes in my eyes
(54:40):
and show your scar off when I'mnot doing it?
So, and a lot of these childrenare losing their hair, and so we
have made fun hats that we getto do.
For and to bring into thehospital for these kids to make
them feel normal.
Like it's okay to not have hair.
It's okay to have badass scarslike society puts so much
(55:03):
pressure on us as humans, andwe're here to change that.
Yes.
And you, that's the perfectsegue, the perfect segue to this
next question, which is, okay,great.
Now we know we've got shame.
We know she doesn't like us totalk about her.
(55:23):
We know we're using shameagainst each other.
We know that it's in inco,ensconced in the systems.
And so what are we going to do?
Like, what are we going to do?
So the question for you is, andCasey, you just named one, what
practices help you and that yourecommend with the women that
you serve to release shame?
(55:44):
So you shift when it starts tocome in, what are the practices
that you use?
And I'll bring the one that, um,Brene Brown mentions, because
this is the one that I use mostin my life, is I'm awake when
the feeling, it's the warmth,right?
Someone says something or, uh.
Makes a nasty comment orwhatever, and then I'll start to
(56:04):
notice the warmth, which is mysignal, and then I'll bring it
back to who am I?
Who am I?
Who am I?
And it's simple, right?
I'm a daughter of the infinite.
I'm a spirit of the universe.
I'm loved, I'm worthy.
I'm enough.
I'm a deserving.
The end.
And then if it's a question of adecision that I made, or a
choice that I made that wasn'tin alignment, I get in and I
(56:26):
start talking to me, right?
It's like the sexiest monologue.
Like, Hey sis, you made amistake.
It's okay.
Can we do better next time?
And the other part of me islike, yeah, sure.
Let's do better next time.
Okay, that's scene.
Let's keep moving.
So my whole identity isn't onthe line every time I do it to
myself or receive it fromsomeone else, but it comes back
to a practice of remembering whothe fuck I am.
(56:52):
Then getting in the heart andsoul of the conversation and
being real nice to me.
Really kind, really loving, justlike I was talking to my
youngest daughter or any of mydaughters.
So that's the practice that Iuse for myself.
It's the one that has set mefree and that I most recommend.
And let's go to you, Jen.
(57:14):
I have to say that, um, this,this is incredible because the,
the practices for me relate to,um, breath work for sure.
Being able to breathe into thefeelings.
Are they real feelings?
Is this accurate?
Is this something that I need towork on?
And then also, I like to,because what I do, I write, so I
(57:37):
always like to write through itin my journal.
In the mornings or in theevenings, I like to write
through it and then kind ofclarify those feelings too,
like.
Like, if this is real, what do Iwant to do about it?
If this is not real, why, why?
How can I not trigger myselfabout this?
Can I not be around those peopleor around that?
Whatever it is that's bringingthat up for me.
(57:57):
So I think that that's valuablebecause then you can either
discard it or work with it.
So for me, that's useful.
And I try to make it not toolong because a lot of times when
people say, oh, we have tojournal, it's like a 40 minute
session, but I tend to do thatvery quickly.
It works for me.
Yeah, the somatic practice ofbreath work and then making it
(58:20):
quick and quick and easy.
We don't have to get in bed withshame and like have a talk out.
It can be literally in themoment.
Redirect.
Thank you Jen.
And uh, back to you, Tracy.
Yeah, so I was gonna say, Ithink one of the number one
things to do is just to own it.
Um.
To, to own it and put it outthere.
(58:42):
Dana, I remember I've told youthis before, but the first time
I listened to your podcast,which is phenomenal, um, hearing
you tell your story the way youtold it with so much honesty,
vulnerability, laughter, thewhole thing, it was so beautiful
to witness.
Um, and I think everyone canlearn from that because it's
(59:02):
something about.
It's something about keepingthings inside.
That's where the ugliness grows.
That's what how shame grows.
It's, it requires it to staylocked inside.
And the thing is, it's going tocome out, it may not come out
verbally, but it's going to comeout either through the body or
you holding back from something.
Or maybe you have a conversationwith someone and it triggers
(59:24):
something and people are like,whoa, where did that come from?
It's coming from that shame thatyou've locked down inside.
So I would say, um, also whenyou speak it into existence,
not, it doesn't just help you,but somebody out there is gonna
hear your story and say Yes.
Oh my gosh.
I just saw a, um, a social mediapost from a woman the other day.
She lost her, her mother walkedaway from her at a very early
(59:47):
age, so she felt so much shame.
Her own mother didn't want her,and she was with one of her
girlfriends and her girl.
They weren't even talking aboutthis.
And her friend just said, Hey,my mom left when I was three
years old.
And the woman was like, what?
And her whole world changed fromthat moment because she had
found someone who had her story.
So that's something else tothink about.
(01:00:07):
We, we keep these things lockedinside.
So I would say just own it.
And really quickly from thebook, women Who Run With the
Wolves, they had three things.
Be open up the secret, speak itinto existence, and write a new
ending.
Write a new ending.
You have the power of the pen.
You can, you can change it fromthe moment that you talk it and
(01:00:30):
write yourself a new ending.
Yes, yes, yes.
And the thing that came up forme is if it has a name, that
means there are a lot of peoplethat have the same experience.
And so in the recovery communitywe walk in and we're like real
with shame because we've madeall these decisions and
(01:00:52):
contracted some STDs and maybebeen to jail and all these
things.
And so when we get in theserooms, recovery's really
powerful'cause we get in andtell the gnarly, gritty, edit
truth about the experience.
And you watch the heads in theroom nod, just like everybody's
nodding now.
And the reminder that if it hasa name, that means many of us
(01:01:12):
have experienced it.
And so I don't, I'm not sure whySTDs came up, but like, hello.
One in like everyone has one.
Okay.
So we can, we can talk about it.
It's okay.
And that's just another exampleof, um.
Something that so many peopleexperience and that we can speak
truth onto.
So thank you for those threeexamples.
(01:01:32):
I'm definitely gonna put thatbook in the show notes too.
And let's go to Casey.
That was powerful.
I was like, whoa, wait a minute.
I, I forgot what I was gonnasay.
Um, I, I, oh yeah.
(01:01:53):
Um, breath can't even get wordsout.
Sorry.
I can't, okay.
I'm gonna follow that back with,I do breath work to calm my
nervous system down.
Um, and I do affirmations.
Um, my grandmother was thequeen.
She passed away a year ago andshe was a queen, and I never
realized it until after shepassed away.
(01:02:16):
The power of what she did in herlife was wake up every morning
putting on her makeup, tellingherself, I am beautiful.
And she got ready every day andI.
I also think the other biggestthing is just speaking it.
Every single one of us in hereare freaking speaking it in some
way or another and it's touchingeverybody.
(01:02:40):
Yeah.
Also the power of podcast,right?
Because all each of us have usedour platforms and podcasts to
speak truth into our ownexperience and everybody's
stories, especially when theyget really personal and you
start like letting out some ofthose secrets.
It is the deepest, most powerfulconnector between me and the
(01:03:01):
listener and you and yourlisteners.
And I'll be on your podcastlike, yes, me too.
I love skinny dippy and so, sothank you for that.
Thank you for your work in theworld, Cana.
Yeah, from my side, I think it's'cause I.
I've done a lot of inner work.
I mean, we all are have, but Imean really if we go to a deep
(01:03:24):
practice that it takes longer.
It is more to, as you say Dana,like get to know ourselves, like
get to know ourselves deeply andaccepting our light and
accepting our shadow becausemore of the shame, it comes from
the shadow.
It's the hidden pieces that wedon't want people to see or
floss, whatever it is in therethat is not accepted by society,
(01:03:46):
culture, et cetera, et cetera.
So once we know which ourshadows are, people can come and
tell you whatever, and you'relike, yeah, so, and I love
myself and it's part of me.
I'm so proud of it.
Fuck off.
Like seriously, you know?
(01:04:08):
So it's, I think that's one ofthe things, like it gave us a
superpower.
The more we get to know love andaccept ourselves, the less shame
we're going to get.
And now, at least for me, whenthere's someone approaching
that, I can feel like, you know,bringing that kind of sense of
shame.
What I do is like, yeah, it'sthe perception of that person.
(01:04:31):
Whatever his life experience hasbeen, it's how they perceive it.
But I don't see it that way andit's great.
That's it.
So the really deep groundinginto who you are and what you
agree with and what you'reavailable for, and you can say,
yes ma'am, or fuck off, eitherway works.
(01:04:52):
Yeah.
Because it's up when you getclear.
Mm-hmm.
It's up to us to give thempermission or not, but we are
conscious and aware enough nowto say, am I gonna allow you?
Yeah.
No, I feel it.
In your bo in my body.
It's warm.
Oh, it's comfort.
Yeah.
I'm not taking it.
Thank you very much.
I'm not taking it.
That is gorgeous.
(01:05:12):
I, I want to lay out one more,and this came straight from your
inspo, Jen, one more practicethat I'm gonna call all of us
forward.
Everybody here, everybody outthere who's listening is the
practice of being a shameinterceptor.
And so I'll give you an example.
When I, we talked, we alreadytalked about my thigh, so let's
talk about my ass for a second.
(01:05:33):
So I have a juicy booty, likeit's juicy.
I, and, and I used to feelashamed of it until one woman
pulled me aside when I made aself deprecating remark about my
butt.
And she said, don't you knowthat men love the juiciest
booties?
And from not that like my wholeworthiness is dependent upon
men, but it was when the momentthat I stepped in my own sacred
(01:05:55):
sexuality and started walkingaround the world like my ass was
fine.
And guess what happened?
Everybody else.
Started to agree and align and Ifelt sexier and I felt more in
my own body.
And so I'm able to, now, mysecond daughter, God bless her,
she's the one with the juiciestboot at our house and my oldest
daughter is, is thin.
And so she'll say somethinglike, oh, Audrey's bat.
(01:06:17):
And I'm like, oh no, she's gotthe juiciest boot in the house.
Like it's something to love andcherish.
And so my daughters and I twerkaround the house just like
showing off what we've got andreally loving what is, and we
intercept that.
So when someone else makes aremark that is intended for
shame, whether it's consciouslyor from the systems, we
(01:06:38):
intercept it in whatever wayfeels authentic to you, you
might not be willing to tell thelady in the stall to fuck off.
But I am.
I.
But you could do something alittle bit more nuanced with the
people with whom you have themost sacred influence.
So starting in your mirror andthen starting in your bedroom,
and then going into yourcommunity and going into the
(01:07:00):
lives that you touch andintercepting that shame in a way
that feels really good.
So to close this out.
I've invited each of ourpanelists to share what we're
gonna call a power sentence toany woman listening right now
who feels the sense of shame.
And by the way, when we startspeaking about our own shame,
(01:07:20):
it's like everyone resonates.
So you probably have alreadyfelt a little bit of the warmth
today, right?
Because when we talk about it,it's infectious.
Okay?
So I, I invited each of ourpanelists to offer one sentence
to any woman listening who feelslike she's in shame now, or
stuck in a shame from the past.
And she's like, what do I do?
So, uh, the floor is open, onepower sentence to anybody who's
(01:07:45):
listening, who feels stuck inshame in Casey, you can lead us
off.
I love you.
I see you.
I hear you.
Your story matters.
And I'm here to celebrate youall the way through it.
(01:08:06):
Jen, you're not alone and youdeserve love, and you deserve to
pursue whatever makes you feelgood or that you are a part of
something bigger.
You deserve it.
Yes, not alone, and you deserveit.
And pursue what makes you comealive.
Thank you, Tracy.
(01:08:28):
I want a juicy booty.
Um, I would say love yourself.
Know yourself.
Don't let anybody tell you whoyou are and share your story.
Share it.
Bring it to the light.
Yes.
Share that story as a, as avehicle for healing and change
(01:08:49):
and liberation and freedom.
Ah, thank you.
Tracy Cana.
Yeah.
All, all beautiful chairs.
If you are on your own name it,say it out loud.
Put a super hot song and shakeit off because that shame is
gonna, is stain in your body,freaking shake it out out and
(01:09:15):
dance it until you're tired.
It looks sexy doing it.
You know what I mean?
Like using pleasure as the Yeah.
Oh yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Out.
And my, my sentence for you isget in community.
Get in community, because shame,hates.
(01:09:37):
When the story arises, it hateswords wrapped around it.
It wants us to stay separated.
So get yourself in community,whether it's a community
mastermind, whether it's aspiritual community or recovery
community, or a sexy bitchcommunity, or a writer's
community, whatever it is,because in community, we
remember that we're all one,that we're connected, our hearts
(01:10:00):
are connected, and that ourdeepest shame ultimately gets to
be the source of our greatestpower.
Because let me tell yousomething straight from Tracy.
When you tell the nitty grittygnarliest details of your story,
there is a woman within yourradius who's gonna say, me too.
(01:10:21):
And together you have set eachother free.
So I wanna go back to thedefinition of shame as a
reminder of who you actuallyare.
When I say who the fuck you are,this is what you're gonna
remember.
Shame is the intensely painfulfeeling or experience of
believing that we are flawed andtherefore unworthy of love,
belonging, and connection.
(01:10:42):
So the antidote is in thedefinition we are worthy.
Have you ever asked yourself,who am I?
Really?
What's my purpose?
Here you go.
Write it down.
Number one, we are worthy oflove.
We are love.
Number two, we are worthy ofbelonging.
You are belonging.
And number three, we are worthyof connection.
You are the connection.
(01:11:03):
The connection to the infinite,the connection to the women in
your lives, the connection tothe woman in the mirror.
You are love, you are belonging,you are connection.
And the assignment now is to goout and tell the truth about
your experience so you canbridge the gap for the next
woman who feels like she's aloneand drowning in her own shame.
Can I get an amen on a weak day?
(01:11:26):
Amen.
Okay, so to close this out.
I just want to say as areminder, shame is something
that we have.
It's not something that we are,and our story is something that
we've experienced.
It's not who we are.
Remember that we're whole andwe're worthy, and we're powerful
(01:11:46):
beyond even our wildest dreams.
So I'm so grateful for you,Cana, and Casey and Tracy and
Jen, thank you for your stories.
Thank you for your liberatingtruth.
Thank you for your work in theworld.
Thank you, gorgeous listener forwho you are and who you get to
be.
Now that you know theassignment, may we all move into
(01:12:08):
the rest of our lives a littlemore, less shameful, and a whole
lot more free.
Cheers to the shameless woman.
Woo.
Thank you.
Thank you.
Love y'all.
Did you just feel the fire, theemotions, all the feelings in
(01:12:32):
this conversation, thisconversation on shame is truly,
truly powerful.
And I wanna thank all my podsisters and Dana for hosting it
and.
Just all my depositors for beingso vulnerable and open about our
stories.
And the truth is, is this ispermission for you to realize
(01:12:54):
that whatever shame you've beencarrying, holding onto, it's not
yours.
So as we close out 2025, let'sbe done with it, friends.
Let's be done with it.
I hope you love this episode.
(01:13:15):
I would love your feedback, soplease reach out to me and I
will leave all my pod sisters.
Contact information in the shownotes so you can contact each
one of them as well.
Saying goodbye to shame in 2025and leaving it behind us.
It is no longer ours to carrywith us.
(01:13:39):
Thank you for tuning intoanother episode.
I hope today's story inspiredyou to embrace your own journey
of growth and change.
Remember, transformation isn'talways easy, but it's always
worth it.
If you enjoyed this episode, besure to subscribe.
Share it with a friend, andleave a review.
If you found something thatsparked you in this episode and
may spark a friend, I encourageyou to go share with them.
(01:14:01):
If you have your own story youwould like to share, I would
love to hear it.
So please reach out to me.
Until next time, friends, gohave some fun and let those
sparks lie.
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The Burden
The Burden is a documentary series that takes listeners into the hidden places where justice is done (and undone). It dives deep into the lives of heroes and villains. And it focuses a spotlight on those who triumph even when the odds are against them. Season 5 - The Burden: Death & Deceit in Alliance On April Fools Day 1999, 26-year-old Yvonne Layne was found murdered in her Alliance, Ohio home. David Thorne, her ex-boyfriend and father of one of her children, was instantly a suspect. Another young man admitted to the murder, and David breathed a sigh of relief, until the confessed murderer fingered David; “He paid me to do it.” David was sentenced to life without parole. Two decades later, Pulitzer winner and podcast host, Maggie Freleng (Bone Valley Season 3: Graves County, Wrongful Conviction, Suave) launched a “live” investigation into David's conviction alongside Jason Baldwin (himself wrongfully convicted as a member of the West Memphis Three). Maggie had come to believe that the entire investigation of David was botched by the tiny local police department, or worse, covered up the real killer. Was Maggie correct? Was David’s claim of innocence credible? In Death and Deceit in Alliance, Maggie recounts the case that launched her career, and ultimately, “broke” her.” The results will shock the listener and reduce Maggie to tears and self-doubt. This is not your typical wrongful conviction story. In fact, it turns the genre on its head. It asks the question: What if our champions are foolish? Season 4 - The Burden: Get the Money and Run “Trying to murder my father, this was the thing that put me on the path.” That’s Joe Loya and that path was bank robbery. Bank, bank, bank, bank, bank. In season 4 of The Burden: Get the Money and Run, we hear from Joe who was once the most prolific bank robber in Southern California, and beyond. He used disguises, body doubles, proxies. He leaped over counters, grabbed the money and ran. Even as the FBI was closing in. It was a showdown between a daring bank robber, and a patient FBI agent. Joe was no ordinary bank robber. He was bright, articulate, charismatic, and driven by a dark rage that he summoned up at will. In seven episodes, Joe tells all: the what, the how… and the why. Including why he tried to murder his father. Season 3 - The Burden: Avenger Miriam Lewin is one of Argentina’s leading journalists today. At 19 years old, she was kidnapped off the streets of Buenos Aires for her political activism and thrown into a concentration camp. Thousands of her fellow inmates were executed, tossed alive from a cargo plane into the ocean. Miriam, along with a handful of others, will survive the camp. Then as a journalist, she will wage a decades long campaign to bring her tormentors to justice. Avenger is about one woman’s triumphant battle against unbelievable odds to survive torture, claim justice for the crimes done against her and others like her, and change the future of her country. Season 2 - The Burden: Empire on Blood Empire on Blood is set in the Bronx, NY, in the early 90s, when two young drug dealers ruled an intersection known as “The Corner on Blood.” The boss, Calvin Buari, lived large. He and a protege swore they would build an empire on blood. Then the relationship frayed and the protege accused Calvin of a double homicide which he claimed he didn’t do. But did he? Award-winning journalist Steve Fishman spent seven years to answer that question. This is the story of one man’s last chance to overturn his life sentence. He may prevail, but someone’s gotta pay. The Burden: Empire on Blood is the director’s cut of the true crime classic which reached #1 on the charts when it was first released half a dozen years ago. Season 1 - The Burden In the 1990s, Detective Louis N. Scarcella was legendary. In a city overrun by violent crime, he cracked the toughest cases and put away the worst criminals. “The Hulk” was his nickname. Then the story changed. Scarcella ran into a group of convicted murderers who all say they are innocent. They turned themselves into jailhouse-lawyers and in prison founded a lway firm. When they realized Scarcella helped put many of them away, they set their sights on taking him down. And with the help of a NY Times reporter they have a chance. For years, Scarcella insisted he did nothing wrong. But that’s all he’d say. Until we tracked Scarcella to a sauna in a Russian bathhouse, where he started to talk..and talk and talk. “The guilty have gone free,” he whispered. And then agreed to take us into the belly of the beast. Welcome to The Burden.