March 29, 2024 • 47 mins
Are we sacrificing our authentic selves on the altar of professional success? Let's unravel this conundrum together with my companion in thought, Jon Jaramillo, as we navigate the delicate balance of professional expectations and personal authenticity. We venture into the tightrope walk of fitting into the corporate world while holding onto that spark of originality. It's a conversation about knowing when to power through and when to step back and recharge, all through the lens of finding that personal driver that defines success on our own terms.
Parenting, they say, can transform the most extroverted social butterflies into introspective hermits, and I'm living proof. Sharing my evolution, we broach the subject of societal pressures that often bury the childlike wonder we all possess. Together with Jon, we advocate for maintaining that wonder, shaking off the shackles of societal norms, and embracing a life lived with enthusiasm and authenticity. Our dialogue meanders through the realms of creativity, family, and the pursuit of joy in our present moments, challenging listeners to reclaim their innate curiosity.
Leadership isn't just about strategy and execution; it's about authenticity and resilience, qualities we aim to foster in our children and ourselves. We delve into the art of neutral thinking as a tool for emotional balance, as shared by Trevor Moawad in his work "It Takes What It Takes." Our candid exchange reveals the importance of understanding our limits and the power of self-care to sustain personal growth. Join me and Jon as we conclude with a heartfelt reminder of the significance of taking a step back to recharge, ensuring that we are not only successful in our careers but also thriving in our personal lives.
Parenting, they say, can transform the most extroverted social butterflies into introspective hermits, and I'm living proof. Sharing my evolution, we broach the subject of societal pressures that often bury the childlike wonder we all possess. Together with Jon, we advocate for maintaining that wonder, shaking off the shackles of societal norms, and embracing a life lived with enthusiasm and authenticity. Our dialogue meanders through the realms of creativity, family, and the pursuit of joy in our present moments, challenging listeners to reclaim their innate curiosity.
Leadership isn't just about strategy and execution; it's about authenticity and resilience, qualities we aim to foster in our children and ourselves. We delve into the art of neutral thinking as a tool for emotional balance, as shared by Trevor Moawad in his work "It Takes What It Takes." Our candid exchange reveals the importance of understanding our limits and the power of self-care to sustain personal growth. Join me and Jon as we conclude with a heartfelt reminder of the significance of taking a step back to recharge, ensuring that we are not only successful in our careers but also thriving in our personal lives.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to the Innovate Everything podcast.
I'm your host, jon Mode.
I'm joined again by JonJaramillo, and today we're going
to talk a little bit aboutditching the script, creating a
headspace that facilitateswonder, and I know for me
personally in my professionalcareer I'm big on people, I'm
big on relationship building.
I've spent a lot of timefocusing on the person as
(00:23):
opposed to maybe the company'sethos or mission, and
historically that's alwaysworked well for me.
And so when I'm in my normaldaily grind, becoming more of a
people person has always done mewell.
But I've kind of had to learnover the last five or six, seven
, 10, 12 years, whatever it'sbeen.
(00:43):
Over the last five or six,seven, 10, 12 years, whatever
it's been, I've had to learn alot about how to put myself in a
little bit of a box, into thekind of the corporate box,
because I've gotten so muchfeedback on we need to be more
professional, we need to do X.
You know you really we reallyshould focus more on these
particular things and and thatconversation has always circled
(01:04):
around well, I know you'resuccessful, I know you're doing
really well, I know your numberslook great, but there's an
expectation of professionalism,or this is why we're not going
to put you in this directionthat you want to go, and there's
been a lot of leadershipopportunity in corporate America
.
When you get to privatecompanies, it's been a whole
different story.
(01:25):
I've progressed very well, butthat's the reason I left
corporate America.
And the second I focused onsmaller companies where there
was a priority and aprioritization around being
yourself and building that kindof personal relationship with
customers.
(01:45):
I was wildly successful.
I moved into management.
Everything's been great.
But I want to talk a little bitabout that script, that
internal dialogue that you kindof create for yourself.
That, in my opinion, takes awaya big chunk of that youthful
exuberance, that childlikewonder that you tend to
associate with how you want yourlife to go.
(02:09):
So, john, welcome back.
I want to talk a little bitabout that childlike wonder.
Let's start with those internetgurus.
Everyone's got one, everyoneknows a um, the, the Tony
Robbins, if you will, but likethe, the smaller scale Tony
Robbins, these guys that arequote unquote wildly successful
(02:31):
in business and they've done allthis stuff and they've got
these huge portfolios orwhatever.
They talk about having theright tools, grinding, keeping
yourself kind of on all the time.
Doesn't that get exhausting?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
yeah, and it all depends.
And, dude, thank you again forhaving me on.
It was fun the last couple ofsessions we had.
So I really appreciate thistalk and these kinds of talks.
I think it depends who you askLike.
For me, being on all the time isexhausting.
I, by nature, I'm an introvert,but people don't believe that
from seeing my video podcast andseeing what I'm doing and
(03:06):
speaking and this and that it'snot exhausting in those moments,
because that's what I'm about,that's what gives me my energy.
So, for some people, that grindof always going, always going,
never stopping 24-7, some peopleare just built like that.
I have my own balance.
Some people are just built likethat.
I have my own balance again, anintrovert.
And even after those momentswhere I feel or it looks like
(03:29):
I'm on I got a veg after thatI've had podcast conversations
where I'm on for an hour and ahalf and when I get out it feels
like I want to crawl under mydesk and just go to sleep.
But I think each person has tolisten to their internal power
source.
Obviously, on social mediathere's an energy that engages
(03:49):
people that are scrollingthrough and capturing them in
those first couple seconds.
If you have that energy all thetime, or if you can turn it on
for as much as you need for yoursocial media or your presence
in any given situation, fine,but it should match up to what
your natural energy is, becauseif not, you're going to burn out
and you have to make sureyou're working right.
(04:11):
Do you have the right tools?
Are you putting in enough prepor are you just flying from the
seat of your pants?
I mean again, everybody worksdifferently and not everything
is going to be cookie cutter.
I don't know.
It's all about what your driveris, and we're in a different
era now than our parents were.
(04:33):
Like the driver for me, I havethe American dream.
My parents came here asimmigrants.
I've attained the Americandream.
I got a house in the suburbs,the two cars, the white picket
fence, the kids in good schools.
Don't have to worry about mybills the way that my parents
used to, or I used to, have todo it.
So for me, even though I haveall that the safety, security,
(04:58):
everything done for my family Istill have a drive beyond that.
So I was having problems withmy anxiety, my mental health,
when it's like, okay, all ofthis is done Now what?
And that's when I really tappedinto and look, listen.
In hindsight I'm seeing it theway I'm explaining it now, but
going through it it wasdifficult.
But for me, leadership, coaching, everything that goes with that
(05:20):
writing, speaking, podcastingthat's my energy.
I'm working on any one of thosegiven pieces every day, whether
I'm writing, whether I'mpreparing for a presentation,
whether I'm talking to somebody,whether I'm on a podcast,
hosting a podcast, prepping fora podcast, my duties in the
household are done, are takencare of.
(05:41):
That's first and foremost.
After that, it's me time.
Everybody has to have their metime.
For me, it gives me energy towork on those things.
Other people they don't want towork on, whatever it is, their
business is, or their driver isseven days a week.
They're good with five days aweek.
Weekends is just for Netflix orhiking or whatever it might be.
(06:02):
It all comes back where youcan't say isn't that exhausting?
Because it always depends whoyou're talking to.
Some people are driven by go,go, go.
Me I'm like maybe 75% of theway there, where I prefer
writing, I prefer doing allthose other things than just
sitting on the couch watching TV.
To me's like I feel guilty thatI'm not, um, I'm not producing.
(06:25):
But that guilt is to myself,it's not to other people, it's
not in comparison to otherpeople.
Um, so again, if you takeanything away from my response
is that it always depends on theperson.
Some people are just programmedthat way.
The rest of us, kind of.
We have to figure out where ourlimits and our balance are.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Okay, so let's let's say you're the kind of person
who focuses a lot on praise andon knowing they're doing a good
job and maybe they're not an onand on all the time type of
person.
What does that person do withit?
Right, so that person's abusiness owner.
So let's say so.
Let's say you're a businessowner who is not an on 24 seven
(07:04):
person but kind of society tellsyou that you should be right
and and you're.
You want to be successful, andother people who are successful,
or at least the ones that aredoing are screaming the loudest,
are the kind that are on allthe time.
How do you manage that that areon?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
all the time.
How do you manage that?
As a reformed introvert, yougot to figure out what you want
out of life.
What do you want for yourself,and go for it.
Meaning it may not be ournatural state.
My natural state, as the way Iused to be, was like lower
energy, like would stick tomyself, kind of thing.
(07:45):
But then at a certain point mypriorities changed.
So I think everybody has tofigure out what their priorities
are.
If you want more for your life,but that's not quite your energy
, but you want to get out there,if it's something you want, you
should go for it.
You should experiment with it,not to try to turn yourself on
24-7 like some YouTubeinfluencer.
(08:08):
But if you don't have that kindof energy, shall we say, but it
takes a little more energy toget attention, to get that
praise for what you're doing.
To me, for me, as a reformedintrovert again, I'm speaking
from experience it's somethingthat you have to do.
Or you have to put yourself infront of the right environment,
(08:30):
in front of the right audiencewho appreciates that, and I just
talked about this on a podcastI recorded a half hour ago where
we talked about puttingyourself in the right position.
So if you're in an environmentwith a group and you want things
(08:50):
and you're trying to go for itand it's not working, you need
to experiment, you need to getout and explore.
Now, praise for youraccomplishment, I mean that's
the best part, that's what fuelsme, it's human, like that's
what we want to feel.
We want to feel like we belong,like we're part of the tribe.
(09:12):
It's in our programming and Ithink that the need for praise
and wanting to belong, most ofus have it not everybody, but
most of us.
It's ego, but I think there's adifference between
enlightenment ego like tappinginto the best of yourself and
showing that and evil ego, whichis kind of like just me all for
me.
But it's important to reach outand do what you can.
And this is where that clicheof reaching outside your comfort
(09:35):
zone comes in.
That's true, that's a realthing.
You're not going to get anybetter by staying where you're
completely comfortable.
So if somebody is gettingpraise and you don't feel you
are because you're not steppingup, I mean, everybody has to
have their priorities.
Do you want to step outside ofyour comfort zone, be around
people that can help you do that, or do you want to just kind of
stay there or do you want tomove.
(09:56):
So everybody's circumstancesare going to be much different,
but for me it was a slow processto figure that out.
It was trial and error, it wasan experimentation.
So I think people need tofigure out what works for them.
For me, the outside praise isgreat.
It's amazing.
I think there is a power of one.
I've talked about that beforeon my podcast where, if you can
(10:18):
just influence guide, givesomebody one person an aha
moment, for me that's amazing.
Guide, give somebody one personan aha moment, for me that's
amazing.
Whether it's my podcast, mynewsletter, if somebody reaches
out and says, hey, that wasawesome what you put out, this
one little piece or the wholepiece or the series that you're
putting out one person for me,and I call that magic that you
(10:43):
can inspire somebody to reachout and tell you that To me
that's important.
To me, that's enough to keep megoing.
To me, what keeps me going isthat, those little praises.
Praise is good.
Again, we're human.
It's in our DNA.
What keeps me going is theenergy I get by putting a
catalog together of work.
What keeps me going is thelegacy that I want to leave for
my kids.
So again, it's a broad answerand I apologize for that, but
(11:05):
there are a lot of caveats.
It all depends on who'slistening and what they want and
what they need.
But people need to figure out.
When I work with clients andleadership coaching, it's not
the leadership where theconversation begins, it's what
that person wants.
You have to figure out who youare, what you want, where you
want to go, and then from thereyou can figure out what it is
(11:28):
that you have the energy to do.
But you don't have to be on allthe time.
You don't have to seek outpraise the same way other people
do.
First it starts with where youare and then you got to kind of
figure out where you have togravitate towards to get what it
is.
You need.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Let's talk motivation for a second, because you
brought that up a couple oftimes there.
Yeah, first things first.
Briefly, what is a reformedintrovert, and did you feel the
need to do that for businesssake or did you have something
else you wanted to accomplishthat?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
just happened.
That wasn't a okay, I need todo that.
That happened because I cameacross coaching.
I came across, finally, mypurpose.
So people are either anintrovert, an extrovert,
somewhere in between.
Right, I was always anintrovert, didn't know what it
meant, didn't feel comfortablein my skin.
(12:18):
It felt like I wanted to be bymyself but be around other
people.
So now it's like an ambivert.
We know what that is, but whenI was a kid, when I was younger,
I didn't have a word for it.
So it caused me a lot ofanxiety.
So when I say reformed, whatchanged me was, when you're an
(12:39):
introvert, my introversion, Ican't speak for all.
I was kind of like okay, Idon't know if I want to be by
myself around other people.
Where's the energy?
What is it that I need?
Long story short, it's not thatI planned it, but when I
finally came across coaching,leadership, coaching when I
finally went back to school forthat, started helping people, I
(13:01):
realized what my passion was.
So realizing what my passionwas allowed me to just open up
and put my word out there andput my work out there.
That's when I get this chatty,that's when I get this talkative
.
So I'm still an introvert whereI don't mind being by myself
playing my instruments, reading,going for a hike I don't mind
that at all.
(13:21):
That's where I kind of get mycreativity, but it's good
because I can be alone.
Hike I don't mind that at all.
That's where I get mycreativity, but it's good
because I can be alone.
Writing I can be alone puttingtogether a podcast episode.
I can be alone putting togethera presentation.
That's why it's an amazingbalance to do all those things.
I can be alone creating themand then I can put them out to
the world.
So I'm reformed in terms of Ididn't know where to put my
(13:43):
energy before, but now I do.
So I'm still that introvert,but I know when to come out of
that shell just to put out therewhat I'm all about.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You almost got that alter ego, that Sasha Fierce
right.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Oh, yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
When I'm on stage, man, I'm a whole different thing
.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Dude, it's like Will Ferrell in old school when he's
debating and he's like whathappened?
I blacked out.
That's every time I'm done witha podcast, every time I'm done
with a speaking engagement,whatever it is, I just enter
this state of flow where I'm go,go, go and then when I stop I'm
like where did that come from?
But I enjoy it.
It gives me energy.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It's interesting because I've always classified
myself as a bit of an extrovert.
But the older I get and themore into business I get, almost
the more introverted I get.
I almost want to be designingand drawing and not in front of
a crowd.
But I've found myself the lastmaybe five or six years at least
since I've had kids becoming alittle bit more introverted.
I want to be home with myfamily and my private life.
I want to be doing that a lotmore than anything else.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think that's a combination between having the
kids at home and, at the sametime, it's a maturation process
where, for so long, we want tobe around other people.
It's a maturation process wherefor so long, we want to be
around other people and I'm notpointing anybody out
specifically, but then there's alot of BS out there.
You know what I mean.
When you realize what you'reall about, what your priorities
are, there's not a lot of peoplethat line up with that.
(15:17):
There's a lot of great peopleout there.
But I think the trajectory oflife is simply you're on a
journey, you're out there,you're looking for something,
you're looking for value, you'relooking for it, looking for it,
looking for it.
And you get to a point in lifewhere you realize that it sounds
hokey as hell, but it's withinyou, like it's what you put out
(15:40):
into the world.
It's the connections, theconnections you're seeking.
They're nothing without whatthey bring out of you.
So I think you just come fullcircle.
You realize where the power inyour life is.
It's internal.
You can make the most ofanything, no matter where you
are.
So I think that's why we gofrom seeking out relationships,
seeking out connections, alwayson the go to like okay, I'd
(16:03):
rather be away from that for awhile, because you realize you
can create by yourself.
Like you, have a deeperappreciation for your creative
power.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
That's true Especially as a parent, if you
weren't before.
Having a child tends to matureyou very quickly.
Oh, absolutely, You've got toteach those life lessons.
And I think back to and we'llkind of go into the motivation
side of it.
I think back when I was youngerand I brought this up a couple
of weeks ago.
Um, when I was younger, I wason Ritalin, I was ADHD and I got
(16:32):
, you know, I got given Ritalinand it doesn't focus you, it
just changes your, your dopaminelevels and gives you a
heightened sense of risk reward.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And so I guess that's the next question is children,
because of kind of the raw,unfiltered nature of their
dopamine, hits right.
Children are totally fine withjust I mean asking and asking,
and asking and asking until youdo what they say or what they
want.
And so that smallest little bitof praise or accomplishment I
(17:06):
mean spikes their dopamine,smallest little bit of praise or
accomplishment, I mean spikestheir dopamine.
And it feels like when, as youget older, that dopamine hit
that, that that spike is stillthere.
And and sometimes when you've,when you, you get those brief
moments in the office wheresomeone's willing to throw their
hands up in the air andcelebrate, but outside of that
usually it's a very tame, evenin the unless you're in a kind
(17:28):
of Wolf of Wall Street situationwhere they're they're using
that to generate sales.
Yeah, where does that go?
Why is that not, as accepted inadult society, for us to have
that big win moment, thatpursuit of happiness, standing
outside with my hands in the air, you know, clapping?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I have no idea.
I think education plays a bigrole in that, that suppression
of that wonder, because it's nolonger this like, it's a
beautiful rawness, like to meit's therapeutic to sit there
and watch my kids discover newthings, like I see things
through their eyes where you goto school and it's like most of
(18:09):
your waking hours in acurriculum that, let's be honest
, for as many years as we go toschool, most of it we don't even
utilize.
And it's grades and it's youpassed or you failed, or okay,
you fail.
If you fail you're going tostay back and there's the
pressure of that.
I think that conformity stripsaway that wonder.
(18:34):
I think also, we don't grow up,we're not brought up in a
society that values respectingeach other, respecting your
community, contributing to yourcommunity.
So you see a lot of bullying,you see a lot of exclusion, you
don't see a lot of community,you see little cliques and
(18:55):
whatnot.
So because of the system andeducation and grading, and then
the societal, the sociologicalbullying and cliques and all
that, we become very tame, webecome very self-aware, we hold
back a lot and that doesn't comeback around until for different
(19:17):
people at different phases oftheir life, but that doesn't
come back around the same, ifever, until you're an adult and
you're like, oh my God, goingthrough life trying to appease
other people got me nowhere.
It kicked the can down the roadLike, okay, awesome, I'm still
around.
Maybe these people that don'tknow me quite as well as who I
(19:38):
am it got me by, but I don'tknow.
That's a great question and Ithink we have to go about
preserving that.
I try to preserve that with mykids as much as possible, like
just being goofy with them,letting them be creative.
But already I'm starting to seethat societal pressure with my
kids of like you know now he'sfriends with this kid because
(20:00):
that kid said they're notfriends and you know there's
this little drama that plays out, but I'm fearful just because I
know that that rolls out andthen the wonder of who they are.
All it takes is one person whenyou're a kid to say that's dumb
, what you're doing, that'sstupid or any other kind of
judgment, and then it getsimplanted in your head that you
have to hide who you are if youwant to remain and feel safe in
(20:23):
that environment that you're in.
So when it comes to wonder andpromoting that as an adult.
It's like, first and foremost,what makes you happy, what makes
you genuinely happy that youget lost in and I'm not talking
about Instagram and Facebook andposting everything that makes
you smile, because this is thething, like social media, you
(20:44):
have to share.
There's so many times where Isee posts where it's like oh,
I'm in my happy place, and theytake a picture of it.
No, like if you were in yourhappy place, you'd be high, you
would be feeling high.
There's no need to share thatwith other people.
So I think it really isimportant to figure out what
makes you happy.
It's the same as what we weretalking about before about the
grind and the energy.
(21:04):
What it means to you is notgoing to mean this.
It's not going to mean the samethat it means to another person
.
So get out of yourself everyonce in a while.
You know.
Try a different way to work.
Try to hang out with differentpeople.
Try to take a course ofsomething you've always been
interested in.
Go for a walk alone, go for ahike alone.
Try different things.
You know, as kids maybe, wewanted to explore.
(21:28):
We didn't have the resources,we didn't have the resources, we
didn't have the time, we had togo with an adult.
Now you have that kind offreedom, even you and I as
fathers.
We have that freedom thatdidn't exist when we were kids
to go and try, really drivesomewhere and try something new,
spend a little money onsomething new.
So get out there and trysomething new.
If you're just doing the samefor me, I can only speak to me
(21:50):
for me If I'm doing the samething every day, every day,
every day.
That wears me down.
So I need to again take care ofmy house responsibilities, but
I need to mix it up every oncein a while.
That's why, honestly, thepodcast that I host is a saving
grace, because it is somethingnew.
It's a new conversation.
(22:13):
Even if I talk to fiveleadership coaches, they're all
going to talk about theirexperiences in life in a
different way, and it wakes meup.
It makes me wonder about who'sout there and the work they're
doing.
So find what makes you happy,truly happy, like.
If I didn't allow you to shareit on social media, to get those
dopamine hits of likes andengagement, what would you be
doing?
What would fill your daythroughout the 24 hours or 16
(22:37):
hours if you feel you reallyhave to sleep?
What is it that makes you happy?
What are you curious about?
Get out and try it.
Get out and do it, try newthings.
I love that If you feel likeyou really have to sleep, so
okay.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So I'm going to ask you to do something that you
almost never do.
Sure, let's speak on behalf ofthe whole world for a second.
And it's funny.
So when you brought up socialmedia, the number of years I
spent feeling like I wasn'tposting enough, because social
media does an incredible job ofkind of getting into your mind
and telling you that you're youtruly are missing out if you're
(23:12):
not part of it Absolutely.
And I remember there was, therewas one time where I went and
actually changed my, my bio onmy Instagram.
If you want to see kind of whatI've been up to, follow my
friends.
I'm so bad at posting here.
Just follow them because I'mI've always kind of prided
myself a little bit on when I'min the moment, I'm in the moment
I don't pull my phone out.
When I'm with my kids, I'm withmy kids.
(23:33):
I don't pull my phone out.
When I'm in a professionalenvironment, unless I'm
available at that moment, Idon't answer my phone.
After the second, I see mychildren or I see my wife.
I don't touch my phone.
Yeah, you can call me all youwant.
I'm not picking it up until I'mback on work time.
Let's wave the magic wand for asecond.
If we could coach one personand say this is our one person,
(23:54):
this person is going to gothrough and touch every life
that they, that they interactwith, and this is what we want
them to think and how we wantthem to to interact with society
around them.
To facilitate that wonder andget rid of those, those mental
blocks that say either you'renot good enough or you need to
be like this to fit in, orwhatever.
And we could, and we could helpthem pursue happiness and pursue
(24:18):
that wonder of who they are andopen them up to a world in
which they can they can truly go, explore and be and bring new
things to the table.
What table?
How would we do that?
What would we say to them?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Try new things.
It's interesting, during thispodcast conversation I had,
right before I hopped on withyou, we talked about this exact
same thing.
In her book she discusses goingback to your childhood and
regrouping and reliving.
So regrouping let's go back tomy past.
What made me happy?
Reliving, doing it.
(24:51):
Now you have a different set ofeyes, you have resources, you
have more time, so what I wouldsay is just remember what made
you happy as a kid, and this isjust one path.
I mean, remember what made youhappy as a kid.
What did you want to try?
I mean, remember what made youhappy as a kid.
(25:19):
What did you want to try?
Go try that thing.
Go find something that givesyou joy.
Go be in the environment of thepeople that appreciate that
same thing.
Share your joy with otherpeople celebration, community,
uplifting, supporting, guiding,mentoring, being of service,
anything you can do to make theenvironment better.
What can you do?
Be curious about that.
So me.
(25:40):
I always say the foundation ofleadership for me is curiosity.
Without curiosity, there'snothing.
That's a hill that I'll die on.
If you don't have curiosity,every other leadership pillar
just collapses because you gotto be curious about yourself.
To be a good leader.
You have to be curious aboutother people, about learning and
whatnot.
So be curious about the worldaround you.
(26:01):
I think what gets us in troubleas a society is it's my world.
This is the way that I want it.
So be curious about the nextperson, be curious about your
community, be curious abouthumanity.
So long story short, it's justbe curious about what brings you
joy.
Be curious about what bringsothers joy.
(26:22):
There's no harm in that.
If somebody else doesn't wantjoy, if they don't want to
celebrate with you, don't putout your fuse because someone
else is not about it.
So yeah, just go out and becurious about the world around
you and explore, Try new things.
That's what I would say most ofall is just don't stay in your
comfort zone, try new things,get out of that monotony.
(26:45):
Again, like you said, if Icould do that, if I could think
that, if I could put that outthere in the real world.
Obviously it's going to bedifferent for everybody else,
but I think I've seen it inclients where when they finally
get to the point where they feelgood about things and
themselves, it's because they'vegone back to their past, picked
up their values and who theywanted to be and brought it
(27:07):
forward.
Because when you start a job,they say this is your job
description, that's all you givethem.
You leave everything else onthe table.
So you don't get to share whatmakes you happy, you don't get
to share your authenticity.
So find out what makes youhappy and share that energy.
You know what I mean.
A little pep in your step, itgoes a long way and you'd be
(27:28):
surprised how easily you couldinfluence a conversation or
people, just in a smile, just ina laugh, just in a how are you
doing?
So?
Find what makes you happy, findyour joy and just share that
energy, and then everythingfalls into place.
So you don't need the technicalexperience, everything else
(27:48):
falls into place.
So you don't need the technicalexperience, everything else
falls into place.
I watched most of Ted Lasso.
I didn't get to finish the lastseason Oof.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Lots of callbacks.
Highly recommend you do that,Okay.
So, and the reason I bring upTed Lasso is A I think Ted Lasso
was probably one of the best TVshows in the last decade to be
on TV.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I absolutely love the characterof Ted Lasso, how he approaches
leadership and it speaks a lotto like the littlest things can
(28:20):
brighten the room, and there'stwo moments specifically that I
think lessons from Ted Lasso.
If you will, I might start awhole segment.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, no, I was going to do the same as I'm watching
it because I thought it was aunique take, and then so many
people were putting them out,I'm like, ah enough, I can't do
that.
But no, go ahead.
What were the two that stand?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
out the two that I liked the most.
One is where Ted Lasso askedJamie.
He said would you rather be alion or a bear?
And Jamie says I'm me.
Why would I want to be anythingelse?
And he looks at him and goes Idon't think you realize how
psychologically healthy thatreally is.
Yeah, and just having Ted Lassocall out Jamie's unwillingness
(28:58):
to be anything but himself, andI think there's a huge, huge
learning there.
Now Jamie has obviously a wholebunch of other, but calling out
that that good in the person,right, because I mean you're
(29:23):
talking about a moment where atthe time in the show.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Jamie was amazing, I think, what I liked, even though
I didn't finish the show.
I watched enough of the seasonsto and I didn't finish the show
just because of thesubscription is up and I got
distracted never renewed.
But that was one of the thingsI loved about that show where it
showed and if I'm thinking ofthe right character he's the one
that was with Keely at thebeginning right, yeah, he's the.
(29:46):
Yeah, the soccer.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So he was like yeah he was like.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He thought he was like the Ronaldo on the team and
everybody had to live up to hisexpectations.
But just that character arc forhim from that to when he was
just more humble in the lockerroom Like he.
I remember he had the issueswith his dad.
So Ted helped him with that,his teammates helped him with
that.
They were there for him withthat.
(30:14):
How toxic his father was.
They could see where all thatpain came from.
That manifests itself into ashitty person at the start, but
he had these redeeming qualitiesby the end.
I love that show.
I love that story arc and thatrelationship between him and Ted
.
That story arc and thatrelationship between him and Ted
because that shows whatsomebody asking about you, what
somebody appreciating anythingabout you, how far that goes.
(30:37):
Somebody looking you in the eyeand saying I'm here for you or
pointing it out.
And we may say, yeah, friendsdo that all the time.
But I feel like we need thosemoments in the everyday.
I think there's so much value injust appreciating the person
next to you, calling out whatyou see about them.
That's good.
So I love that because youdon't see that that often.
(30:58):
We really don't see that thatoften we hear compliments, but
to the point where it's genuine,where it's like.
That's what I like about you.
It wasn't good job you scored agoal, good job on that assist
on the field, on the pitch.
But this is what I see in yourcharacter.
Thank God you're around and itsounds morbid, but I think about
(31:18):
that more and more every time Igo to a wake and you read an
obituary or somebody writessomething on Facebook about
somebody that died.
It's like I've been aroundpeople that felt like nobody
cared about them and then theyhappened to die and then there
was all this outpouring of thisbelief that they had in the
person, which is true, but it'slike.
(31:39):
These are all things that weshould share with each other,
not in an obituary, not in aFacebook post when the person is
gone.
This is what we should say toeach other on a daily basis.
So I love the fact that.
I love that that was expressedin there, because I think his
character arc and how he comesnot full circle, but does a 180,
(32:00):
doesn't come back to where hewas, does a 180.
It does.
That does happen when you havepeople look at you, when they
see you, when they appreciateyou when they tell you the good
that they see in you, especiallywhen they can offset the
toxicity that Jamie experiencedwith his father and just even to
this day, like um, how hisfather would treat him.
So I think that's just.
(32:20):
I love that lesson in that showbecause it just I don't think
that's sped up for the season'spurpose.
I think it can happen thatquickly with most people if you
pay those compliments and seethem and who they are, if you
pay attention to who they are.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
First things first.
I would recommend you finish itbecause whoever wrote Ted Lasso
, which I believe is JasonSudeikis and the guy who plays
Beard I can't remember his nameoff the top of my head and one
of the guys from Scrubs is theguy who produced Scrubs.
I think the three of them wroteit.
Okay, what makes that show sobrilliant is and why I recommend
(32:56):
you finishing it, is the fulllike, once you get into season
three, the full swing of Jamie,specifically Jamie, and then I
mean everybody else too.
But just carrying on that line,the full swing of Jamie and
where he ends in the last liketwo or three episodes, is
incredible, like it's.
Somebody will write a bookabout it, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Oh yeah, absolutely you have to.
It's that good.
Just because here's the thing,I'll just end this response for
this particular question.
But this is why I love TedLasso, where I think there
should be books written about it.
I wanted to write a blog postabout it and just here's like 10
things, or here's what stoodout in each episode, what I like
about it.
I think it's a great leadershipseries, but what I like about it
(33:38):
is it's not leadership, it'sjust being human, it's being
respectful, it's being courteous, it's being curious, it's
humanity, and for me, that'swhat leadership is becoming.
Is not how you guide people toget them to do what you want.
I'm butchering the definition,even as a leadership coach, and
(33:59):
just generalizing it, but it'shumanity.
Who are you as a person andthen the byproduct of that,
that's leadership.
Show me who you are as a person, that you are those things
considerate, respectful, curiousand then the way you
demonstrate that to people.
That's leadership.
So I love it because it's nothim leading most of the
(34:21):
conversations he has with hisplayers.
There's the stuff he says as acoach to the team in the locker
room, on the pitch, training,but most of the aha moments in
Ted Lasso, I think were mostlyone-on-one conversations.
You know what I mean.
So it's just, it's being human.
He wasn't even being a coach inthose moments.
He was seeing that person,whether it was Jamie, whether it
(34:44):
was Roy, whether it was hisassistant coach, whether it was
the blonde who's the co-owner,owner, rebecca, with the
biscuits that he'd bring inevery day kind of thing.
It wasn't leadership, it wasbeing human, it was being there
for somebody.
It was being caring, curious,considerate, respectful,
(35:05):
invested, engaged.
So to me, that's not leadership.
First and foremost, that'sbeing human.
Leadership is the way that itcomes across to people and what
they see.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Well, and that's the other piece of it, too right,
and that's one of the thingsthat I think is so brilliant
about Ted Lasso is I think TedLasso was the first show that
I've ever watched where I waslike I want to be more like this
character.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Oh, absolutely I want to have.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The impact he has I want to have is that you have
just such a fucking greatconcept.
You have this person that hasthis impact and you're watching
it play out to the people aroundhim and he has his own demons,
he has his own insecurities.
So that just shows you thateven if you believe somebody is
a great leader, a great human toyou, to the people around you,
(35:58):
they may have their own stuff.
All to say is a leader doesn'thave to be on all the time Like
they're.
They're allowed to be human,allowed to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh yeah, and well, and that's the thing, and that
kind of leads me into my otherTed Lasso moment that I would
use Ted Lasso he and he pointsit out with this moment, right,
and this is where where you goto being human and being
yourself and being kind ofwilling to defend yourself and
defend your sense of wonder andyour mental headspace.
You've got this moment whereTed Lasso's playing darts with
(36:34):
Rebecca and her ex-husband Ican't remember his name at the
moment, but challenges theex-husband in a game of darts.
Rupert right, rupert, yes, yeah.
So he challenges Rupert in agame of darts and he basically
says like an immense amount offinality.
I don't actually remember whatthe competition was about, but
it was like, basically, I'llleave forever or she'll sell you
(36:55):
the team, or something likethat.
Yeah, you know, she'll sell youthe team, or something like
that.
It was very high stakes andthey're playing and Ted Lasso
has to get two shots and onlytwo shots left, and if he misses
either of the two shots ordoesn't score exactly the right
way, he loses.
He says people have beenunderestimating me my entire
life and they never think tojust ask a simple question like
you played a lot of darts, ted.
(37:16):
And then he goes forth andillustrates the point of taking
the time to ask people.
And so when I think of aheadspace that facilitates
wonder, I think of all thesepeople Everyone's got one in
your company those people whoare just too afraid to speak up
(37:41):
the wall.
But they've got the answer,they know the answer to the
question the entire company isasking and that person probably
will never speak up.
That's just not who they are.
It's not who they want to be.
They can learn to speak up ifthey want to, but a lot of times
they don't want to.
But being able to be the kindof person and this is one of the
things that I teach my kidsbeing the kind of person who's
willing to speak up and whocares for others, even if it's
(38:03):
uncool, and one of the thingsthat I focus heavily on.
When I grew up, my mom was biginto Amway it was the thing in
the 90s and my mom was big intoAmway and I grew up for I mean
at least five, six years of mychildhood with just those
(38:23):
motivational speakers from theearly MLMs just doing their
thing Right, and I don'tremember if it came from that,
but I always associated with it.
There's a line that says Ichoose to have a good day and I
don't give anybody permission tochange that.
I use that a lot with my kidshave a good day and I don't give
anybody permission to changethat.
I use that a lot with my kids.
Is is you are in charge of, ofhow you react to things.
(38:44):
You are in charge of how this,the next steps, are going to go.
Yeah, and I lean a little.
I lean a little bit on TrevorMoad.
I've never and obviously I'venever been on your show cause I
didn't write a book, but if youwere like hey John.
What's the?
What's a book that yourecommend?
I would choose it Takes what itTakes by Trevor Moad.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Okay, so come on and talk about that one.
You don't have to be an authorto be on the show.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
It Takes what it Takes by Trevor Moad, where he
talks about staying neutral,kind of disbands a little bit of
the idea of positive ornegative thinking, and he's like
you're not going to be positiveall the time when things are
going horribly wrong in yourlife.
You're not going to just bepositive Like, yeah, man, you
know, just lost my house.
Oh yeah, toxic positivity.
Yeah, he's like there's no,there's no positive spin.
(39:29):
So Trevor's big thing is isstaying neutral.
Yep, and one of the things hetalks about is you can't control
what just happened.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
But you can control the controllables moving forward
from that moment.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so that that's one of thoseones where I instill that in my
kids all the time of okay,that's happened, that's okay, it
happened, it is what it is.
You control what happens fromhere.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, it's.
It's amazing to be able to talkto our kids like that, because
my parents were immigrants.
They didn't know the culture,they were just about working all
the time.
So it's amazing to be able tolike I've had more conversations
like that with my kids than myparents had with me.
(40:15):
I know my parents loved me todeath, but it was just a
different time.
Now you and I have a couple ofdecades more of experience since
those times when we were kidsand we know how much a
conversation like that sets thetone for what our kids are going
to see.
These are the pivotal formativedevelopmental years.
(40:38):
So it's all about I still don'tlike looking at anything as
failure, because me it's likeyou tried something To me.
I don't understand what failureis anymore.
I'm not saying I get everythingright, but I just don't.
I can't put myself back inthose shoes of the person who
(40:59):
was afraid to fail.
But that's when you're younger,that's when you're paying
attention to what other peopleare doing and what they may be
saying back to you about you.
In any case, I think it's key tojust teach our kids to be good
human beings, and especially thepositive and the negative, and
be neutral.
It's like, yeah, celebrate thewins.
No, it's not always going to belike that.
(41:21):
And then the negatives, thedownfalls, they happen.
What are you going to do aboutit?
No one should judge you becauseyou fell into a pit.
No one should judge you becauseyou quote failed.
Okay, it didn't work outwhatever you were trying.
What are you going to do fromthis moment on?
That's where I'm going to kindof judge you.
That's where I'm going to kindof judge you.
That's where I'm going to kindof say, okay, we need to tweak
(41:42):
something, Not that somethingdidn't work out, but what is
your approach going forward?
So I love being able to.
I love that you bring that up.
It's a different experiencebeing a parent, father or mother
.
It's just very different.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
But I love when I can talk to another father about
how we're instilling those theright mentality for their kids.
I feel like a big piece of thatis we're in this transition out
I guess is the best way to sayit out of like that industrial
revolution, out of the factoryrevolution out of the factory.
(42:42):
And it feels, to me at least,like some people get it, some
people don't, and the ones whoget it are, I mean, absolutely
like hyper-focused on like howdo we get you into the right
headspace of X, y, z.
So we'll end with this.
We kind of talked about thedays where you're feeling burned
out, getting yourself clawedout of that space.
Why does it feel like it's notokay to do that?
(43:03):
The days?
Speaker 2 (43:04):
that we feel burnt out.
We have to learn ourselves.
We have to deprogram ourselvesunprogram, whatever the word may
be of the pressure of socialmedia and our perception of what
the community expects of us andwhat success looks like.
You need to put yourself first,first and foremost what do you
(43:29):
want?
What's important to you?
Are you burning out?
How do you adjust that?
It's like leadership.
You got to work on yourselffirst and then, whatever people
see the residual, that's thesuccess.
You can't work to somebodyelse's standard.
You can't start in your chapterthree and compare it to
somebody who's already onchapter 25 of their life.
(43:50):
We compare.
It's our nature.
We're human.
We've been doing it formillennia and millennia, um, but
we really need to put that BSaside.
We need to be for healthreasons, um, for energy reasons.
We need to do what works for us.
If you feel like you're burningout and I've talked about a
couple of books on my serieswith the authors of the books on
(44:12):
burnout there's been a lot ofbooks that I've covered on
burnout like that's coming upmore and more, so you have to
pay attention to it.
What works for you?
We have to stop Comparison, Ithink, is good.
Again, it's natural, but it'sgood in terms of how can I get
better?
Not how do I burn out, not howdo I keep up.
And again, that's a lesson thatI'm working on with my son now.
(44:32):
He's frustrated that a kid nextto him can dribble the ball in
a certain way and make a goalMeanwhile, for different
circumstances, this is the firstseason that my son is playing
soccer.
This other kid is probablyplaying three years.
You have to understand that,what goes into it, what goes
into the work.
But in any case, each of us isgoing to know where our
(44:54):
threshold is.
That we feel guilty it'sbecause our priorities are effed
up.
Our priorities should beourselves first, our families in
that same space, if we do havea family.
But it's hard to step away fromsociety and the comparisons and
trying to keep up with theJoneses.
But again, you got to focus onyourself first, what works for
(45:16):
you, what's your style, what'syour personality, and go from
there.
But to feel guilty aboutrelaxing something's messed up
with priorities.
So that's priority work.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Well, let's go into a space to relax now, okay,
Welcome back to the Innovate Everything podcast.
I'm your host, jon Mode.
I'm joined again by JonJaramillo, and today we're going
to talk a little bit aboutditching the script, creating a
headspace that facilitateswonder, and I know for me
personally in my professionalcareer I'm big on people, I'm
big on relationship building.
I've spent a lot of timefocusing on the person as
(00:23):
opposed to maybe the company'sethos or mission, and
historically that's alwaysworked well for me.
And so when I'm in my normaldaily grind, becoming more of a
people person has always done mewell.
But I've kind of had to learnover the last five or six, seven
, 10, 12 years, whatever it'sbeen.
(00:43):
Over the last five or six,seven, 10, 12 years, whatever
it's been, I've had to learn alot about how to put myself in a
little bit of a box, into thekind of the corporate box,
because I've gotten so muchfeedback on we need to be more
professional, we need to do X.
You know you really we reallyshould focus more on these
particular things and and thatconversation has always circled
(01:04):
around well, I know you'resuccessful, I know you're doing
really well, I know your numberslook great, but there's an
expectation of professionalism,or this is why we're not going
to put you in this directionthat you want to go, and there's
been a lot of leadershipopportunity in corporate America
.
When you get to privatecompanies, it's been a whole
different story.
(01:25):
I've progressed very well, butthat's the reason I left
corporate America.
And the second I focused onsmaller companies where there
was a priority and aprioritization around being
yourself and building that kindof personal relationship with
customers.
(01:45):
I was wildly successful.
I moved into management.
Everything's been great.
But I want to talk a little bitabout that script, that
internal dialogue that you kindof create for yourself.
That, in my opinion, takes awaya big chunk of that youthful
exuberance, that childlikewonder that you tend to
associate with how you want yourlife to go.
(02:09):
So, john, welcome back.
I want to talk a little bitabout that childlike wonder.
Let's start with those internetgurus.
Everyone's got one, everyoneknows a um, the, the Tony
Robbins, if you will, but likethe, the smaller scale Tony
Robbins, these guys that arequote unquote wildly successful
(02:31):
in business and they've done allthis stuff and they've got
these huge portfolios orwhatever.
They talk about having theright tools, grinding, keeping
yourself kind of on all the time.
Doesn't that get exhausting?
Oh?
Speaker 2 (02:44):
yeah, and it all depends.
And, dude, thank you again forhaving me on.
It was fun the last couple ofsessions we had.
So I really appreciate thistalk and these kinds of talks.
I think it depends who you askLike.
For me, being on all the time isexhausting.
I, by nature, I'm an introvert,but people don't believe that
from seeing my video podcast andseeing what I'm doing and
(03:06):
speaking and this and that it'snot exhausting in those moments,
because that's what I'm about,that's what gives me my energy.
So, for some people, that grindof always going, always going,
never stopping 24-7, some peopleare just built like that.
I have my own balance.
Some people are just built likethat.
I have my own balance again, anintrovert.
And even after those momentswhere I feel or it looks like
(03:29):
I'm on I got a veg after thatI've had podcast conversations
where I'm on for an hour and ahalf and when I get out it feels
like I want to crawl under mydesk and just go to sleep.
But I think each person has tolisten to their internal power
source.
Obviously, on social mediathere's an energy that engages
(03:49):
people that are scrollingthrough and capturing them in
those first couple seconds.
If you have that energy all thetime, or if you can turn it on
for as much as you need for yoursocial media or your presence
in any given situation, fine,but it should match up to what
your natural energy is, becauseif not, you're going to burn out
and you have to make sureyou're working right.
(04:11):
Do you have the right tools?
Are you putting in enough prepor are you just flying from the
seat of your pants?
I mean again, everybody worksdifferently and not everything
is going to be cookie cutter.
I don't know.
It's all about what your driveris, and we're in a different
era now than our parents were.
(04:33):
Like the driver for me, I havethe American dream.
My parents came here asimmigrants.
I've attained the Americandream.
I got a house in the suburbs,the two cars, the white picket
fence, the kids in good schools.
Don't have to worry about mybills the way that my parents
used to, or I used to, have todo it.
So for me, even though I haveall that the safety, security,
(04:58):
everything done for my family Istill have a drive beyond that.
So I was having problems withmy anxiety, my mental health,
when it's like, okay, all ofthis is done Now what?
And that's when I really tappedinto and look, listen.
In hindsight I'm seeing it theway I'm explaining it now, but
going through it it wasdifficult.
But for me, leadership, coaching, everything that goes with that
(05:20):
writing, speaking, podcastingthat's my energy.
I'm working on any one of thosegiven pieces every day, whether
I'm writing, whether I'mpreparing for a presentation,
whether I'm talking to somebody,whether I'm on a podcast,
hosting a podcast, prepping fora podcast, my duties in the
household are done, are takencare of.
(05:41):
That's first and foremost.
After that, it's me time.
Everybody has to have their metime.
For me, it gives me energy towork on those things.
Other people they don't want towork on, whatever it is, their
business is, or their driver isseven days a week.
They're good with five days aweek.
Weekends is just for Netflix orhiking or whatever it might be.
(06:02):
It all comes back where youcan't say isn't that exhausting?
Because it always depends whoyou're talking to.
Some people are driven by go,go, go.
Me I'm like maybe 75% of theway there, where I prefer
writing, I prefer doing allthose other things than just
sitting on the couch watching TV.
To me's like I feel guilty thatI'm not, um, I'm not producing.
(06:25):
But that guilt is to myself,it's not to other people, it's
not in comparison to otherpeople.
Um, so again, if you takeanything away from my response
is that it always depends on theperson.
Some people are just programmedthat way.
The rest of us, kind of.
We have to figure out where ourlimits and our balance are.
Speaker 1 (06:43):
Okay, so let's let's say you're the kind of person
who focuses a lot on praise andon knowing they're doing a good
job and maybe they're not an onand on all the time type of
person.
What does that person do withit?
Right, so that person's abusiness owner.
So let's say so.
Let's say you're a businessowner who is not an on 24 seven
(07:04):
person but kind of society tellsyou that you should be right
and and you're.
You want to be successful, andother people who are successful,
or at least the ones that aredoing are screaming the loudest,
are the kind that are on allthe time.
How do you manage that that areon?
Speaker 2 (07:24):
all the time.
How do you manage that?
As a reformed introvert, yougot to figure out what you want
out of life.
What do you want for yourself,and go for it.
Meaning it may not be ournatural state.
My natural state, as the way Iused to be, was like lower
energy, like would stick tomyself, kind of thing.
(07:45):
But then at a certain point mypriorities changed.
So I think everybody has tofigure out what their priorities
are.
If you want more for your life,but that's not quite your energy
, but you want to get out there,if it's something you want, you
should go for it.
You should experiment with it,not to try to turn yourself on
24-7 like some YouTubeinfluencer.
(08:08):
But if you don't have that kindof energy, shall we say, but it
takes a little more energy toget attention, to get that
praise for what you're doing.
To me, for me, as a reformedintrovert again, I'm speaking
from experience it's somethingthat you have to do.
Or you have to put yourself infront of the right environment,
(08:30):
in front of the right audiencewho appreciates that, and I just
talked about this on a podcastI recorded a half hour ago where
we talked about puttingyourself in the right position.
So if you're in an environmentwith a group and you want things
(08:50):
and you're trying to go for itand it's not working, you need
to experiment, you need to getout and explore.
Now, praise for youraccomplishment, I mean that's
the best part, that's what fuelsme, it's human, like that's
what we want to feel.
We want to feel like we belong,like we're part of the tribe.
(09:12):
It's in our programming and Ithink that the need for praise
and wanting to belong, most ofus have it not everybody, but
most of us.
It's ego, but I think there's adifference between
enlightenment ego like tappinginto the best of yourself and
showing that and evil ego, whichis kind of like just me all for
me.
But it's important to reach outand do what you can.
And this is where that clicheof reaching outside your comfort
(09:35):
zone comes in.
That's true, that's a realthing.
You're not going to get anybetter by staying where you're
completely comfortable.
So if somebody is gettingpraise and you don't feel you
are because you're not steppingup, I mean, everybody has to
have their priorities.
Do you want to step outside ofyour comfort zone, be around
people that can help you do that, or do you want to just kind of
stay there or do you want tomove.
(09:56):
So everybody's circumstancesare going to be much different,
but for me it was a slow processto figure that out.
It was trial and error, it wasan experimentation.
So I think people need tofigure out what works for them.
For me, the outside praise isgreat.
It's amazing.
I think there is a power of one.
I've talked about that beforeon my podcast where, if you can
(10:18):
just influence guide, givesomebody one person an aha
moment, for me that's amazing.
Guide, give somebody one personan aha moment, for me that's
amazing.
Whether it's my podcast, mynewsletter, if somebody reaches
out and says, hey, that wasawesome what you put out, this
one little piece or the wholepiece or the series that you're
putting out one person for me,and I call that magic that you
(10:43):
can inspire somebody to reachout and tell you that To me
that's important.
To me, that's enough to keep megoing.
To me, what keeps me going isthat, those little praises.
Praise is good.
Again, we're human.
It's in our DNA.
What keeps me going is theenergy I get by putting a
catalog together of work.
What keeps me going is thelegacy that I want to leave for
my kids.
So again, it's a broad answerand I apologize for that, but
(11:05):
there are a lot of caveats.
It all depends on who'slistening and what they want and
what they need.
But people need to figure out.
When I work with clients andleadership coaching, it's not
the leadership where theconversation begins, it's what
that person wants.
You have to figure out who youare, what you want, where you
want to go, and then from thereyou can figure out what it is
(11:28):
that you have the energy to do.
But you don't have to be on allthe time.
You don't have to seek outpraise the same way other people
do.
First it starts with where youare and then you got to kind of
figure out where you have togravitate towards to get what it
is.
You need.
Speaker 1 (11:43):
Let's talk motivation for a second, because you
brought that up a couple oftimes there.
Yeah, first things first.
Briefly, what is a reformedintrovert, and did you feel the
need to do that for businesssake or did you have something
else you wanted to accomplishthat?
Speaker 2 (11:56):
just happened.
That wasn't a okay, I need todo that.
That happened because I cameacross coaching.
I came across, finally, mypurpose.
So people are either anintrovert, an extrovert,
somewhere in between.
Right, I was always anintrovert, didn't know what it
meant, didn't feel comfortablein my skin.
(12:18):
It felt like I wanted to be bymyself but be around other
people.
So now it's like an ambivert.
We know what that is, but whenI was a kid, when I was younger,
I didn't have a word for it.
So it caused me a lot ofanxiety.
So when I say reformed, whatchanged me was, when you're an
(12:39):
introvert, my introversion, Ican't speak for all.
I was kind of like okay, Idon't know if I want to be by
myself around other people.
Where's the energy?
What is it that I need?
Long story short, it's not thatI planned it, but when I
finally came across coaching,leadership, coaching when I
finally went back to school forthat, started helping people, I
(13:01):
realized what my passion was.
So realizing what my passionwas allowed me to just open up
and put my word out there andput my work out there.
That's when I get this chatty,that's when I get this talkative
.
So I'm still an introvert whereI don't mind being by myself
playing my instruments, reading,going for a hike I don't mind
that at all.
(13:21):
That's where I kind of get mycreativity, but it's good
because I can be alone.
Hike I don't mind that at all.
That's where I get mycreativity, but it's good
because I can be alone.
Writing I can be alone puttingtogether a podcast episode.
I can be alone putting togethera presentation.
That's why it's an amazingbalance to do all those things.
I can be alone creating themand then I can put them out to
the world.
So I'm reformed in terms of Ididn't know where to put my
(13:43):
energy before, but now I do.
So I'm still that introvert,but I know when to come out of
that shell just to put out therewhat I'm all about.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
You almost got that alter ego, that Sasha Fierce
right.
Speaker 2 (13:55):
Oh, yeah, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 1 (13:57):
When I'm on stage, man, I'm a whole different thing
.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
Dude, it's like Will Ferrell in old school when he's
debating and he's like whathappened?
I blacked out.
That's every time I'm done witha podcast, every time I'm done
with a speaking engagement,whatever it is, I just enter
this state of flow where I'm go,go, go and then when I stop I'm
like where did that come from?
But I enjoy it.
It gives me energy.
Speaker 1 (14:39):
It's interesting because I've always classified
myself as a bit of an extrovert.
But the older I get and themore into business I get, almost
the more introverted I get.
I almost want to be designingand drawing and not in front of
a crowd.
But I've found myself the lastmaybe five or six years at least
since I've had kids becoming alittle bit more introverted.
I want to be home with myfamily and my private life.
I want to be doing that a lotmore than anything else.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
I think that's a combination between having the
kids at home and, at the sametime, it's a maturation process
where, for so long, we want tobe around other people.
It's a maturation process wherefor so long, we want to be
around other people and I'm notpointing anybody out
specifically, but then there's alot of BS out there.
You know what I mean.
When you realize what you'reall about, what your priorities
are, there's not a lot of peoplethat line up with that.
(15:17):
There's a lot of great peopleout there.
But I think the trajectory oflife is simply you're on a
journey, you're out there,you're looking for something,
you're looking for value, you'relooking for it, looking for it,
looking for it.
And you get to a point in lifewhere you realize that it sounds
hokey as hell, but it's withinyou, like it's what you put out
(15:40):
into the world.
It's the connections, theconnections you're seeking.
They're nothing without whatthey bring out of you.
So I think you just come fullcircle.
You realize where the power inyour life is.
It's internal.
You can make the most ofanything, no matter where you
are.
So I think that's why we gofrom seeking out relationships,
seeking out connections, alwayson the go to like okay, I'd
(16:03):
rather be away from that for awhile, because you realize you
can create by yourself.
Like you, have a deeperappreciation for your creative
power.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
That's true Especially as a parent, if you
weren't before.
Having a child tends to matureyou very quickly.
Oh, absolutely, You've got toteach those life lessons.
And I think back to and we'llkind of go into the motivation
side of it.
I think back when I was youngerand I brought this up a couple
of weeks ago.
Um, when I was younger, I wason Ritalin, I was ADHD and I got
(16:32):
, you know, I got given Ritalinand it doesn't focus you, it
just changes your, your dopaminelevels and gives you a
heightened sense of risk reward.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
Hmm.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
And so I guess that's the next question is children,
because of kind of the raw,unfiltered nature of their
dopamine, hits right.
Children are totally fine withjust I mean asking and asking,
and asking and asking until youdo what they say or what they
want.
And so that smallest little bitof praise or accomplishment I
(17:06):
mean spikes their dopamine,smallest little bit of praise or
accomplishment, I mean spikestheir dopamine.
And it feels like when, as youget older, that dopamine hit
that, that that spike is stillthere.
And and sometimes when you've,when you, you get those brief
moments in the office wheresomeone's willing to throw their
hands up in the air andcelebrate, but outside of that
usually it's a very tame, evenin the unless you're in a kind
(17:28):
of Wolf of Wall Street situationwhere they're they're using
that to generate sales.
Yeah, where does that go?
Why is that not, as accepted inadult society, for us to have
that big win moment, thatpursuit of happiness, standing
outside with my hands in the air, you know, clapping?
Speaker 2 (17:47):
I have no idea.
I think education plays a bigrole in that, that suppression
of that wonder, because it's nolonger this like, it's a
beautiful rawness, like to meit's therapeutic to sit there
and watch my kids discover newthings, like I see things
through their eyes where you goto school and it's like most of
(18:09):
your waking hours in acurriculum that, let's be honest
, for as many years as we go toschool, most of it we don't even
utilize.
And it's grades and it's youpassed or you failed, or okay,
you fail.
If you fail you're going tostay back and there's the
pressure of that.
I think that conformity stripsaway that wonder.
(18:34):
I think also, we don't grow up,we're not brought up in a
society that values respectingeach other, respecting your
community, contributing to yourcommunity.
So you see a lot of bullying,you see a lot of exclusion, you
don't see a lot of community,you see little cliques and
(18:55):
whatnot.
So because of the system andeducation and grading, and then
the societal, the sociologicalbullying and cliques and all
that, we become very tame, webecome very self-aware, we hold
back a lot and that doesn't comeback around until for different
(19:17):
people at different phases oftheir life, but that doesn't
come back around the same, ifever, until you're an adult and
you're like, oh my God, goingthrough life trying to appease
other people got me nowhere.
It kicked the can down the roadLike, okay, awesome, I'm still
around.
Maybe these people that don'tknow me quite as well as who I
(19:38):
am it got me by, but I don'tknow.
That's a great question and Ithink we have to go about
preserving that.
I try to preserve that with mykids as much as possible, like
just being goofy with them,letting them be creative.
But already I'm starting to seethat societal pressure with my
kids of like you know now he'sfriends with this kid because
(20:00):
that kid said they're notfriends and you know there's
this little drama that plays out, but I'm fearful just because I
know that that rolls out andthen the wonder of who they are.
All it takes is one person whenyou're a kid to say that's dumb
, what you're doing, that'sstupid or any other kind of
judgment, and then it getsimplanted in your head that you
have to hide who you are if youwant to remain and feel safe in
(20:23):
that environment that you're in.
So when it comes to wonder andpromoting that as an adult.
It's like, first and foremost,what makes you happy, what makes
you genuinely happy that youget lost in and I'm not talking
about Instagram and Facebook andposting everything that makes
you smile, because this is thething, like social media, you
(20:44):
have to share.
There's so many times where Isee posts where it's like oh,
I'm in my happy place, and theytake a picture of it.
No, like if you were in yourhappy place, you'd be high, you
would be feeling high.
There's no need to share thatwith other people.
So I think it really isimportant to figure out what
makes you happy.
It's the same as what we weretalking about before about the
grind and the energy.
(21:04):
What it means to you is notgoing to mean this.
It's not going to mean the samethat it means to another person
.
So get out of yourself everyonce in a while.
You know.
Try a different way to work.
Try to hang out with differentpeople.
Try to take a course ofsomething you've always been
interested in.
Go for a walk alone, go for ahike alone.
Try different things.
You know, as kids maybe, wewanted to explore.
(21:28):
We didn't have the resources,we didn't have the resources, we
didn't have the time, we had togo with an adult.
Now you have that kind offreedom, even you and I as
fathers.
We have that freedom thatdidn't exist when we were kids
to go and try, really drivesomewhere and try something new,
spend a little money onsomething new.
So get out there and trysomething new.
If you're just doing the samefor me, I can only speak to me
(21:50):
for me If I'm doing the samething every day, every day,
every day.
That wears me down.
So I need to again take care ofmy house responsibilities, but
I need to mix it up every oncein a while.
That's why, honestly, thepodcast that I host is a saving
grace, because it is somethingnew.
It's a new conversation.
(22:13):
Even if I talk to fiveleadership coaches, they're all
going to talk about theirexperiences in life in a
different way, and it wakes meup.
It makes me wonder about who'sout there and the work they're
doing.
So find what makes you happy,truly happy, like.
If I didn't allow you to shareit on social media, to get those
dopamine hits of likes andengagement, what would you be
doing?
What would fill your daythroughout the 24 hours or 16
(22:37):
hours if you feel you reallyhave to sleep?
What is it that makes you happy?
What are you curious about?
Get out and try it.
Get out and do it, try newthings.
I love that If you feel likeyou really have to sleep, so
okay.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
So I'm going to ask you to do something that you
almost never do.
Sure, let's speak on behalf ofthe whole world for a second.
And it's funny.
So when you brought up socialmedia, the number of years I
spent feeling like I wasn'tposting enough, because social
media does an incredible job ofkind of getting into your mind
and telling you that you're youtruly are missing out if you're
(23:12):
not part of it Absolutely.
And I remember there was, therewas one time where I went and
actually changed my, my bio onmy Instagram.
If you want to see kind of whatI've been up to, follow my
friends.
I'm so bad at posting here.
Just follow them because I'mI've always kind of prided
myself a little bit on when I'min the moment, I'm in the moment
I don't pull my phone out.
When I'm with my kids, I'm withmy kids.
(23:33):
I don't pull my phone out.
When I'm in a professionalenvironment, unless I'm
available at that moment, Idon't answer my phone.
After the second, I see mychildren or I see my wife.
I don't touch my phone.
Yeah, you can call me all youwant.
I'm not picking it up until I'mback on work time.
Let's wave the magic wand for asecond.
If we could coach one personand say this is our one person,
(23:54):
this person is going to gothrough and touch every life
that they, that they interactwith, and this is what we want
them to think and how we wantthem to to interact with society
around them.
To facilitate that wonder andget rid of those, those mental
blocks that say either you'renot good enough or you need to
be like this to fit in, orwhatever.
And we could, and we could helpthem pursue happiness and pursue
(24:18):
that wonder of who they are andopen them up to a world in
which they can they can truly go, explore and be and bring new
things to the table.
What table?
How would we do that?
What would we say to them?
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Try new things.
It's interesting, during thispodcast conversation I had,
right before I hopped on withyou, we talked about this exact
same thing.
In her book she discusses goingback to your childhood and
regrouping and reliving.
So regrouping let's go back tomy past.
What made me happy?
Reliving, doing it.
(24:51):
Now you have a different set ofeyes, you have resources, you
have more time, so what I wouldsay is just remember what made
you happy as a kid, and this isjust one path.
I mean, remember what made youhappy as a kid.
What did you want to try?
I mean, remember what made youhappy as a kid.
(25:19):
What did you want to try?
Go try that thing.
Go find something that givesyou joy.
Go be in the environment of thepeople that appreciate that
same thing.
Share your joy with otherpeople celebration, community,
uplifting, supporting, guiding,mentoring, being of service,
anything you can do to make theenvironment better.
What can you do?
Be curious about that.
So me.
(25:40):
I always say the foundation ofleadership for me is curiosity.
Without curiosity, there'snothing.
That's a hill that I'll die on.
If you don't have curiosity,every other leadership pillar
just collapses because you gotto be curious about yourself.
To be a good leader.
You have to be curious aboutother people, about learning and
whatnot.
So be curious about the worldaround you.
(26:01):
I think what gets us in troubleas a society is it's my world.
This is the way that I want it.
So be curious about the nextperson, be curious about your
community, be curious abouthumanity.
So long story short, it's justbe curious about what brings you
joy.
Be curious about what bringsothers joy.
(26:22):
There's no harm in that.
If somebody else doesn't wantjoy, if they don't want to
celebrate with you, don't putout your fuse because someone
else is not about it.
So yeah, just go out and becurious about the world around
you and explore, Try new things.
That's what I would say most ofall is just don't stay in your
comfort zone, try new things,get out of that monotony.
(26:45):
Again, like you said, if Icould do that, if I could think
that, if I could put that outthere in the real world.
Obviously it's going to bedifferent for everybody else,
but I think I've seen it inclients where when they finally
get to the point where they feelgood about things and
themselves, it's because they'vegone back to their past, picked
up their values and who theywanted to be and brought it
(27:07):
forward.
Because when you start a job,they say this is your job
description, that's all you givethem.
You leave everything else onthe table.
So you don't get to share whatmakes you happy, you don't get
to share your authenticity.
So find out what makes youhappy and share that energy.
You know what I mean.
A little pep in your step, itgoes a long way and you'd be
(27:28):
surprised how easily you couldinfluence a conversation or
people, just in a smile, just ina laugh, just in a how are you
doing?
So?
Find what makes you happy, findyour joy and just share that
energy, and then everythingfalls into place.
So you don't need the technicalexperience, everything else
(27:48):
falls into place.
So you don't need the technicalexperience, everything else
falls into place.
I watched most of Ted Lasso.
I didn't get to finish the lastseason Oof.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
Lots of callbacks.
Highly recommend you do that,Okay.
So, and the reason I bring upTed Lasso is A I think Ted Lasso
was probably one of the best TVshows in the last decade to be
on TV.
Yeah, I agree with that.
I absolutely love the characterof Ted Lasso, how he approaches
leadership and it speaks a lotto like the littlest things can
(28:20):
brighten the room, and there'stwo moments specifically that I
think lessons from Ted Lasso.
If you will, I might start awhole segment.
Speaker 2 (28:27):
Yeah, no, I was going to do the same as I'm watching
it because I thought it was aunique take, and then so many
people were putting them out,I'm like, ah enough, I can't do
that.
But no, go ahead.
What were the two that stand?
Speaker 1 (28:38):
out the two that I liked the most.
One is where Ted Lasso askedJamie.
He said would you rather be alion or a bear?
And Jamie says I'm me.
Why would I want to be anythingelse?
And he looks at him and goes Idon't think you realize how
psychologically healthy thatreally is.
Yeah, and just having Ted Lassocall out Jamie's unwillingness
(28:58):
to be anything but himself, andI think there's a huge, huge
learning there.
Now Jamie has obviously a wholebunch of other, but calling out
that that good in the person,right, because I mean you're
(29:23):
talking about a moment where atthe time in the show.
Speaker 2 (29:25):
Jamie was amazing, I think, what I liked, even though
I didn't finish the show.
I watched enough of the seasonsto and I didn't finish the show
just because of thesubscription is up and I got
distracted never renewed.
But that was one of the thingsI loved about that show where it
showed and if I'm thinking ofthe right character he's the one
that was with Keely at thebeginning right, yeah, he's the.
(29:46):
Yeah, the soccer.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
So he was like yeah he was like.
Speaker 2 (29:49):
He thought he was like the Ronaldo on the team and
everybody had to live up to hisexpectations.
But just that character arc forhim from that to when he was
just more humble in the lockerroom Like he.
I remember he had the issueswith his dad.
So Ted helped him with that,his teammates helped him with
that.
They were there for him withthat.
(30:14):
How toxic his father was.
They could see where all thatpain came from.
That manifests itself into ashitty person at the start, but
he had these redeeming qualitiesby the end.
I love that show.
I love that story arc and thatrelationship between him and Ted
.
That story arc and thatrelationship between him and Ted
because that shows whatsomebody asking about you, what
somebody appreciating anythingabout you, how far that goes.
(30:37):
Somebody looking you in the eyeand saying I'm here for you or
pointing it out.
And we may say, yeah, friendsdo that all the time.
But I feel like we need thosemoments in the everyday.
I think there's so much value injust appreciating the person
next to you, calling out whatyou see about them.
That's good.
So I love that because youdon't see that that often.
(30:58):
We really don't see that thatoften we hear compliments, but
to the point where it's genuine,where it's like.
That's what I like about you.
It wasn't good job you scored agoal, good job on that assist
on the field, on the pitch.
But this is what I see in yourcharacter.
Thank God you're around and itsounds morbid, but I think about
(31:18):
that more and more every time Igo to a wake and you read an
obituary or somebody writessomething on Facebook about
somebody that died.
It's like I've been aroundpeople that felt like nobody
cared about them and then theyhappened to die and then there
was all this outpouring of thisbelief that they had in the
person, which is true, but it'slike.
(31:39):
These are all things that weshould share with each other,
not in an obituary, not in aFacebook post when the person is
gone.
This is what we should say toeach other on a daily basis.
So I love the fact that.
I love that that was expressedin there, because I think his
character arc and how he comesnot full circle, but does a 180,
(32:00):
doesn't come back to where hewas, does a 180.
It does.
That does happen when you havepeople look at you, when they
see you, when they appreciateyou when they tell you the good
that they see in you, especiallywhen they can offset the
toxicity that Jamie experiencedwith his father and just even to
this day, like um, how hisfather would treat him.
So I think that's just.
(32:20):
I love that lesson in that showbecause it just I don't think
that's sped up for the season'spurpose.
I think it can happen thatquickly with most people if you
pay those compliments and seethem and who they are, if you
pay attention to who they are.
Speaker 1 (32:35):
First things first.
I would recommend you finish itbecause whoever wrote Ted Lasso
, which I believe is JasonSudeikis and the guy who plays
Beard I can't remember his nameoff the top of my head and one
of the guys from Scrubs is theguy who produced Scrubs.
I think the three of them wroteit.
Okay, what makes that show sobrilliant is and why I recommend
(32:56):
you finishing it, is the fulllike, once you get into season
three, the full swing of Jamie,specifically Jamie, and then I
mean everybody else too.
But just carrying on that line,the full swing of Jamie and
where he ends in the last liketwo or three episodes, is
incredible, like it's.
Somebody will write a bookabout it, I'm sure.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
Oh yeah, absolutely you have to.
It's that good.
Just because here's the thing,I'll just end this response for
this particular question.
But this is why I love TedLasso, where I think there
should be books written about it.
I wanted to write a blog postabout it and just here's like 10
things, or here's what stoodout in each episode, what I like
about it.
I think it's a great leadershipseries, but what I like about it
(33:38):
is it's not leadership, it'sjust being human, it's being
respectful, it's being courteous, it's being curious, it's
humanity, and for me, that'swhat leadership is becoming.
Is not how you guide people toget them to do what you want.
I'm butchering the definition,even as a leadership coach, and
(33:59):
just generalizing it, but it'shumanity.
Who are you as a person andthen the byproduct of that,
that's leadership.
Show me who you are as a person, that you are those things
considerate, respectful, curiousand then the way you
demonstrate that to people.
That's leadership.
So I love it because it's nothim leading most of the
(34:21):
conversations he has with hisplayers.
There's the stuff he says as acoach to the team in the locker
room, on the pitch, training,but most of the aha moments in
Ted Lasso, I think were mostlyone-on-one conversations.
You know what I mean.
So it's just, it's being human.
He wasn't even being a coach inthose moments.
He was seeing that person,whether it was Jamie, whether it
(34:44):
was Roy, whether it was hisassistant coach, whether it was
the blonde who's the co-owner,owner, rebecca, with the
biscuits that he'd bring inevery day kind of thing.
It wasn't leadership, it wasbeing human, it was being there
for somebody.
It was being caring, curious,considerate, respectful,
(35:05):
invested, engaged.
So to me, that's not leadership.
First and foremost, that'sbeing human.
Leadership is the way that itcomes across to people and what
they see.
Speaker 1 (35:14):
Well, and that's the other piece of it, too right,
and that's one of the thingsthat I think is so brilliant
about Ted Lasso is I think TedLasso was the first show that
I've ever watched where I waslike I want to be more like this
character.
Speaker 2 (35:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:27):
Oh, absolutely I want to have.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The impact he has I want to have is that you have
just such a fucking greatconcept.
You have this person that hasthis impact and you're watching
it play out to the people aroundhim and he has his own demons,
he has his own insecurities.
So that just shows you thateven if you believe somebody is
a great leader, a great human toyou, to the people around you,
(35:58):
they may have their own stuff.
All to say is a leader doesn'thave to be on all the time Like
they're.
They're allowed to be human,allowed to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
Oh yeah, and well, and that's the thing, and that
kind of leads me into my otherTed Lasso moment that I would
use Ted Lasso he and he pointsit out with this moment, right,
and this is where where you goto being human and being
yourself and being kind ofwilling to defend yourself and
defend your sense of wonder andyour mental headspace.
You've got this moment whereTed Lasso's playing darts with
(36:34):
Rebecca and her ex-husband Ican't remember his name at the
moment, but challenges theex-husband in a game of darts.
Rupert right, rupert, yes, yeah.
So he challenges Rupert in agame of darts and he basically
says like an immense amount offinality.
I don't actually remember whatthe competition was about, but
it was like, basically, I'llleave forever or she'll sell you
(36:55):
the team, or something likethat.
Yeah, you know, she'll sell youthe team, or something like
that.
It was very high stakes andthey're playing and Ted Lasso
has to get two shots and onlytwo shots left, and if he misses
either of the two shots ordoesn't score exactly the right
way, he loses.
He says people have beenunderestimating me my entire
life and they never think tojust ask a simple question like
you played a lot of darts, ted.
(37:16):
And then he goes forth andillustrates the point of taking
the time to ask people.
And so when I think of aheadspace that facilitates
wonder, I think of all thesepeople Everyone's got one in
your company those people whoare just too afraid to speak up
(37:41):
the wall.
But they've got the answer,they know the answer to the
question the entire company isasking and that person probably
will never speak up.
That's just not who they are.
It's not who they want to be.
They can learn to speak up ifthey want to, but a lot of times
they don't want to.
But being able to be the kindof person and this is one of the
things that I teach my kidsbeing the kind of person who's
willing to speak up and whocares for others, even if it's
(38:03):
uncool, and one of the thingsthat I focus heavily on.
When I grew up, my mom was biginto Amway it was the thing in
the 90s and my mom was big intoAmway and I grew up for I mean
at least five, six years of mychildhood with just those
(38:23):
motivational speakers from theearly MLMs just doing their
thing Right, and I don'tremember if it came from that,
but I always associated with it.
There's a line that says Ichoose to have a good day and I
don't give anybody permission tochange that.
I use that a lot with my kidshave a good day and I don't give
anybody permission to changethat.
I use that a lot with my kids.
Is is you are in charge of, ofhow you react to things.
(38:44):
You are in charge of how this,the next steps, are going to go.
Yeah, and I lean a little.
I lean a little bit on TrevorMoad.
I've never and obviously I'venever been on your show cause I
didn't write a book, but if youwere like hey John.
What's the?
What's a book that yourecommend?
I would choose it Takes what itTakes by Trevor Moad.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
Okay, so come on and talk about that one.
You don't have to be an authorto be on the show.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
It Takes what it Takes by Trevor Moad, where he
talks about staying neutral,kind of disbands a little bit of
the idea of positive ornegative thinking, and he's like
you're not going to be positiveall the time when things are
going horribly wrong in yourlife.
You're not going to just bepositive Like, yeah, man, you
know, just lost my house.
Oh yeah, toxic positivity.
Yeah, he's like there's no,there's no positive spin.
(39:29):
So Trevor's big thing is isstaying neutral.
Yep, and one of the things hetalks about is you can't control
what just happened.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:38):
But you can control the controllables moving forward
from that moment.
Yeah, absolutely.
And so that that's one of thoseones where I instill that in my
kids all the time of okay,that's happened, that's okay, it
happened, it is what it is.
You control what happens fromhere.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yeah, it's.
It's amazing to be able to talkto our kids like that, because
my parents were immigrants.
They didn't know the culture,they were just about working all
the time.
So it's amazing to be able tolike I've had more conversations
like that with my kids than myparents had with me.
(40:15):
I know my parents loved me todeath, but it was just a
different time.
Now you and I have a couple ofdecades more of experience since
those times when we were kidsand we know how much a
conversation like that sets thetone for what our kids are going
to see.
These are the pivotal formativedevelopmental years.
(40:38):
So it's all about I still don'tlike looking at anything as
failure, because me it's likeyou tried something To me.
I don't understand what failureis anymore.
I'm not saying I get everythingright, but I just don't.
I can't put myself back inthose shoes of the person who
(40:59):
was afraid to fail.
But that's when you're younger,that's when you're paying
attention to what other peopleare doing and what they may be
saying back to you about you.
In any case, I think it's key tojust teach our kids to be good
human beings, and especially thepositive and the negative, and
be neutral.
It's like, yeah, celebrate thewins.
No, it's not always going to belike that.
(41:21):
And then the negatives, thedownfalls, they happen.
What are you going to do aboutit?
No one should judge you becauseyou fell into a pit.
No one should judge you becauseyou quote failed.
Okay, it didn't work outwhatever you were trying.
What are you going to do fromthis moment on?
That's where I'm going to kindof judge you.
That's where I'm going to kindof judge you.
That's where I'm going to kindof say, okay, we need to tweak
(41:42):
something, Not that somethingdidn't work out, but what is
your approach going forward?
So I love being able to.
I love that you bring that up.
It's a different experiencebeing a parent, father or mother
.
It's just very different.
Speaker 1 (42:20):
But I love when I can talk to another father about
how we're instilling those theright mentality for their kids.
I feel like a big piece of thatis we're in this transition out
I guess is the best way to sayit out of like that industrial
revolution, out of the factoryrevolution out of the factory.
(42:42):
And it feels, to me at least,like some people get it, some
people don't, and the ones whoget it are, I mean, absolutely
like hyper-focused on like howdo we get you into the right
headspace of X, y, z.
So we'll end with this.
We kind of talked about thedays where you're feeling burned
out, getting yourself clawedout of that space.
Why does it feel like it's notokay to do that?
(43:03):
The days?
Speaker 2 (43:04):
that we feel burnt out.
We have to learn ourselves.
We have to deprogram ourselvesunprogram, whatever the word may
be of the pressure of socialmedia and our perception of what
the community expects of us andwhat success looks like.
You need to put yourself first,first and foremost what do you
(43:29):
want?
What's important to you?
Are you burning out?
How do you adjust that?
It's like leadership.
You got to work on yourselffirst and then, whatever people
see the residual, that's thesuccess.
You can't work to somebodyelse's standard.
You can't start in your chapterthree and compare it to
somebody who's already onchapter 25 of their life.
(43:50):
We compare.
It's our nature.
We're human.
We've been doing it formillennia and millennia, um, but
we really need to put that BSaside.
We need to be for healthreasons, um, for energy reasons.
We need to do what works for us.
If you feel like you're burningout and I've talked about a
couple of books on my serieswith the authors of the books on
(44:12):
burnout there's been a lot ofbooks that I've covered on
burnout like that's coming upmore and more, so you have to
pay attention to it.
What works for you?
We have to stop Comparison, Ithink, is good.
Again, it's natural, but it'sgood in terms of how can I get
better?
Not how do I burn out, not howdo I keep up.
And again, that's a lesson thatI'm working on with my son now.
(44:32):
He's frustrated that a kid nextto him can dribble the ball in
a certain way and make a goalMeanwhile, for different
circumstances, this is the firstseason that my son is playing
soccer.
This other kid is probablyplaying three years.
You have to understand that,what goes into it, what goes
into the work.
But in any case, each of us isgoing to know where our
(44:54):
threshold is.
That we feel guilty it'sbecause our priorities are effed
up.
Our priorities should beourselves first, our families in
that same space, if we do havea family.
But it's hard to step away fromsociety and the comparisons and
trying to keep up with theJoneses.
But again, you got to focus onyourself first, what works for
(45:16):
you, what's your style, what'syour personality, and go from
there.
But to feel guilty aboutrelaxing something's messed up
with priorities.
So that's priority work.
I love that.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Well, let's go into a space to relax now, okay,
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