September 27, 2023 • 44 mins
Wrestling with the concept of sports contracts and the artful dance that is salary cap navigation? Strap in as we unpack the evolution of these negotiations over the past decade, unearthing insights on the impact of decisions made by top players like Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, and Russell Wilson. Get ready to delve into the intricacies of upcoming contracts like that of Shohei Otani and the potential game-changing effects it could have.
We then shift gears to tackle team-building strategies. Ever wondered how the long-term dynasty model stacks up against winning multiple championships? We dissect the strategies of teams like the Bengals and the Dolphins, giving you an inside look at how they balance on-field productivity with the pursuit of championships. Don't miss our in-depth analysis of the effects of big bonuses, roster control, and front office decisions on attracting superstar players like Messi and Ohtani.
Rounding out our dynamic conversation, we scrutinize the distinct team dynamics across NBA, NFL, MLB, and NHL. We examine how the number of players needed to build a winning team impacts the salary cap and the influence of superstars on team success. We also delve into the implications of long-term contracts in different sports and discuss the strategic use of MLB contracts to secure max deals for young players when they hit their prime. Tune in for an engaging, insightful conversation about the changing landscape of sports contracts. You don't want to miss it!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
So last time we opened the door to the fan
experience and how we couldinnovate going to a game trying
to promote those fans to go backto the stadium.
How can we improve that overallexperience?
And today I'm joined once againby my co-host, chris, as we
discuss contracts and how thecontract negotiation has changed
(00:22):
.
Over the last, let's say,decade.
You've seen a lot of reallyinteresting things happen with
the salary cap.
Now the salary cap is themaximum amount that a team can
spend on players per year, andteams have gotten really
creative in how they negotiateand navigate those waters.
But we're going to talk alittle bit about there's a big
contract coming up on baseballwith Shohei Otani.
(00:44):
We're going to talk baseballand how his contract may change
the game, as well as opening thedoor to other types of
contracts and maybe getting alittle bit into Lionel Messi and
his contract as well.
So with that, let's go aheadand get started.
Chris, welcome, how are you?
I'm doing well, and today whatwe're going to dive into is is
(01:06):
innovating the contract right?
So we're going to talk about insports when we have these
players.
So Tom Brady famously took Imean we're talking 20 years of
discounts effectively to be on awinning team.
Aaron Rodgers may his seasonrest in peace.
I hope he heals up and feelsmuch better very soon.
(01:27):
Aaron Rodgers and RussellWilson have done almost exactly
the opposite, where they havetaken the max deal every chance
they get and let's print money.
Let's get as much money as wepossibly can Take care of our
families.
I don't have any beef with thatat all, but there's just a
seemingly large dichotomybetween players that want to win
(01:48):
and focus on winning andplayers who want to make money.
And when we're looking into thepopularity of sports and how
much sports has grown, you'retalking about the average salary
for an NFL player in 1960 isjust under $18,000 a year and
the average salary for an NFLplayer now is $860,000 per year,
(02:10):
and not talking about inflationor anything like that.
But we can talk about thegrowth of the league.
From 2001 to 2022, the NFL grew$14 billion in annual value and
you're talking a four and ahalf times growth, which I'm
sure between 1960 and 2001 thatnumber was dramatically bigger
(02:34):
as far as the growth percentage.
But sports in and of itself hasbeen the escape for just the
everyman right.
You've got people who can'tafford to pay their bills every
month, but they will not miss anNFL game.
They will not miss a game fortheir favorite team Fan is a
(02:55):
fanatic.
So it's there's this idea thatsports are an escape from our
everyday lives.
And when you look at the NFLand you look at how these, these
famous people, these, thesereally talented players,
prioritize how they go abouttheir business, them being the
CEO of their own destiny, howthey go about operating their
(03:18):
business, and when you havesomething that's as popular as
the NFL or the MLB or the NBA,you find yourself in this
situation where, at this point,how you operate your business
becomes everybody else'sbusiness.
How do we view what you just thedecisions you just made and NFL
(03:39):
running backs today are havingthis, this silent battle or
actually it's not so silent,it's actually quite public
battle with ownership and andsalaries, and they're basically
saying it for somebody who's sovaluable to the organization.
I'd like to get paid like that.
And running backs have a veryvalid point there.
Their lifespan in the NFL isdramatically shorter than almost
(04:01):
any other position because theyare taking a brunt of the
beating and they can change agame so fast and their skill set
is so unique and what they dois so special, they want to make
that money.
So now we're looking at aperiod that are we in a changing
point or a turning point?
Are we moving away from thelong term deal?
Are we going closer to the longterm deal?
(04:21):
Are we looking at a positionwhere contracts are going to
become a lot more centeredaround winning and metrics?
And how you performspecifically dictates your
career, how you typicallydictates your contract, and will
the players like that?
And so, as we look into thislens, where do you think we're
(04:42):
headed?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, and a great example going on today is Shohei
Botani.
He's in Los Angeles, he'splaying for the Angels.
He's famously wanting, says hewants to win, and in baseball
I'm a baseball nerd you have allthe stats that says this is one
of the best players.
It's not the greatest player ofall time.
The stats say he's the greatestplayer of all time.
He's 29 or 30.
(05:05):
He's about to sign a 10 yeardeal for somewhere between $400
and $600 million.
So let's break down his futureand let's talk about does that
long term deal still exist?
So first off, let's answer yourquestion yes, I believe long
term still still deal willalways exist until you start
paying people like how much theycan make over a long term deal
(05:26):
in one or two years.
That's something that'shandicapping teams today and I
think it will forever, becauseif you are a 30 year old player
and somebody's willing to signyou for 10 years and guarantee
that money, you are going totake that right Because you're
not getting $500 million a year,$50 million a year if you're a
39 year old player.
So you sign that deal now andyou get it when you're that old.
(05:46):
So I think the long term dealis what the player wants.
I don't think that will go away, especially for your players
like Othani, tom Brady, thegreats right.
They're always going to be longterm deals, and that's the way
that you will be able to paysomeone.
The most money is over thoseyears.
The limiting factor, though, ishow much money do you want
invested in a player?
(06:07):
You just mentioned runningbacks in the NFL, it's almost a
revolving door, because they gethurt, right.
Well, I don't want money tiedup in someone who's
statistically the most likelyperson on the field to get hurt,
and unfortunately, in the NFL,your value is determined by what
the teams are willing to payyou.
I mean, you're a free agent.
You can sign with any team, butif no team's willing to pay you
(06:28):
more than a million dollars ayear, well, your value is a
million dollars a year.
John, I think you're a valuableperson, but if you went to the
NFL free market, you would getoffered three dollars and 10
cents a year, because that'syour value in the NFL.
I don't think you can complainabout that.
The owner said back and said youknow, with your skill, with
your 12 second, 40 time, you'reworth this much money.
(06:51):
So how do you value someonelike Othani.
And then we're going to go intohis office and this is going to
be a circus, right?
He says there are three thingsthat are most valuable to him.
So we're going to take him inhis work.
Winning is the most valuable.
He wants rings, kind of likeLeBron said he wanted a ring
when he went to Miami with Boschand Wade and they won.
They won one or two, right.
(07:12):
Then he says, as all of us say,we want money.
And then the third thing islocation.
He's, you know, from Japan.
He would rather be West Coastbecause it's him so much quicker
to get home than it would be ifhe was somewhere like the Bronx
.
How much money is winning worthfor him?
Is he willing to take $50million a year to be on a bad
team or $30 million a year to beon a good team?
I don't know, but I think he'sthe player that's going to get
(07:35):
that.
And the reason he's going totake less to be on the winning
team is because he gets so muchmoney off of Jersey cells.
I think he's the highestgrossing Jersey cell in the MLB.
He is going to look to win toexpand his access to players.
I think, oh man, I forget.
I think when the Angels were inSeattle or Boston, I think when
(07:57):
they were in Boston Boston wasselling O'Tawney jerseys because
he's that popular.
So he's going to look to getaccess to players and he knows
people are going to buy hisjersey, people are going to buy
his autograph stuff, people aregoing to buy his cleats if he's
winning.
So he's looking to go to a teamthat will let him do that.
That's the Dodgers, that's theYankees, maybe the Padres, even
though they're coming off of badseason.
(08:19):
Yankees are too, but they spendso much money they can rebuild.
That's why the Mariners are anoutside shot, because they're
having good season.
But he's looking to go to awinning team.
So I think, john, the questionis how much is winning worth?
So, from your experience, howmuch was winning worth to Tom
Brady If he took no NFL salary?
How much do you think, john,the Super Bowl rings made him in
(08:44):
lifetime contracts?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And when it comes to Tom Brady, I think not only did
he, his ambition far outweighedhis desire to be just rich for
the sake of being rich.
And I think to your point, yeah, I think he made far more off
the field than he made on thefield just by winning six rings
and being able to be Tom Brady.
(09:06):
I think the tizes that he'sgetting right now kind of
teasing him joining the ManningCast is a format of him kind of
teasing into how valuable he isas a commentator.
And when you talk Jersey salesright, so I know in the NFL it's
about two thirds of the Jerseysale goes to the player.
(09:27):
I imagine that's the same inthe MLB, but in the NFL you're
talking the 25th or 26th highestgrossing Jersey sales are
running back.
They're far past 20, before youleave quarterbacks and tight
ends and wide receivers.
So when you're looking atsomeone like a running back, I
think those contracts becausethey don't get as much from
(09:50):
Jersey sales, they don't get asmuch from the contract itself
you have to look either off thefield or you have to look at
trying to get creative with howthe contract is organized.
And I think in the NFL we havecap limits, obviously, but with
these big deals the cap isgetting bigger and bigger and
bigger.
And I did be interested to seeI don't know if the MLB does it,
(10:12):
quite the same, but I know inthe NFL there's NFL is
incredibly talented at kickingthe can down the road
financially Lots of signingbonuses, lots of long term deals
that are very back loaded orfront loaded to try and move
that money one way or the other,pay the players as much as they
want, but also to make sure theorganization can continue to
(10:34):
fund those new people.
So in the case of Otani, isthere a chance that they go hey,
we're going to give you $75million signing bonus and then
average you out the rest of theway, or does it not necessarily?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
matter the signing bonus.
Baseball is famously the only Ithink their only sport that has
only guaranteed contracts.
So there is no, there's no,there's no incentive based
contracts.
And then I'll be there, maybebonuses, but your contract is
guaranteed.
So signing bonuses really don'tmatter.
People don't want incentivestuff because they just want
that guaranteed money.
But what you do in the NFLbecause you defer contracts.
So you know, bobby Benin isprobably the most famous Otani
(11:10):
will almost certainly fall intothis bucket.
Scherzer has even King I thinkKinger for Junior like the
fourth highest paid player onthe reds this year and he
retired feels like a decade agonow.
So what you do is you signsomeone to this.
Let's just use a hundredmillion dollar contract for easy
math and then you go okay,we're signing you to a hundred
million dollar contract, we'regoing to pay you instead of $10
(11:30):
million a year for 10 years,we're going to pay you $9
million a year for 12 years.
So every year they have asavings on that cap, but you pay
it longer and ultimately theplayer will make more money
because they will have deferreda chunk of it.
(11:50):
So then the reason theydeferred is there's a financial
incentive of an extra percentageor an extra year salary that
will get taxed onto it.
And I think Scherzer is goingto make money to like 24 years
something stupid like thatBecause he signed these big $40
million a year deals and teamscan't just afford it and because
in the MLB you also don't havea hard cap.
I think NFL you have a hard cap, right, so you can't.
(12:12):
There is a number you can'tspend more than correct.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, the NFL is going to.
There's a hard cap and you haveto be below the salary cap
before the beginning of the year.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, so then I'll be .
You actually use a soft cap andluxury tax.
You could.
If you were an MLB team, youcould spend.
You could be the Mets and spend$500 million on contracts to
lose most of your games.
The Mets are a dumpster firethat you, I'm saying with the
Padres.
Padres spent a lot of money,paid the luxury tax.
They didn't get what theythought they'd get out of it.
(12:44):
Honestly, later we should lookat the Atlanta Braves.
They kind of money balled itand they only pay for people
that get value out of theircontract.
So the Yankees will pay a lotto have the best player today,
but they mortgage their futureon doing that Same with the
Padres and the Mets.
And then they have all thismoney.
They're trying to figure outwhat to do with it.
The Braves go.
Listen, man, we've put yournumbers into our you know
(13:05):
analysis machine and we shouldpay you I can't pay you a dime
over $120 million a year.
Another team lost from $250million.
They'll go to that other teamand the Braves will go.
Well, we wouldn't even want toafford it because we don't think
the value is there.
They famously only takevaluable contracts and they also
have more divisionchampionships than any other
team.
I don't think that is acoincidence.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
No, so okay.
So let's play a little.
Innovate the contract for asecond.
Is future closer to what theAtlanta Braves are doing?
Or is the future closer to, youknow, a future where we
literally celebrate Shohei Otaniday and we pay this guy for the
next 28 years and we justembrace that?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think you're going to have two.
I think you're going to havetwo futures.
So I'm going to be a littlepolitical here and say both,
which is probably not what youwant.
You're going to have the morefrequently successful teams that
go the path of the Braves.
They're going to be a moremid-market team Braves let me
like me to call them amid-market team.
They are a powerhouse of a team, but they aren't in LA or New
York, right?
So you will have these teamsthat look to get the most value
(14:13):
out of their contracts, like theBraves, and you will see them
in the playoffs more frequently.
Even in the other school ofthought is going to be pick your
year.
So say 2024 is your year.
You sign all the best playersyou can.
You don't play money ball, youjust sign the best players you
can for whatever amount of moneyyou can.
(14:34):
You have a two-year, three-yearwindow to win, and then all
those players are 35 and now yougot to stick onto those
contracts for five years andyou're in the basement for five
years and then you, you know,get rid of those contracts and
then pick your year to try towin again, kind of like what the
Jets did this year before,obviously, aaron Rybis injury
said hey, we are going to spendour money and we're going to
(14:56):
have a two-year window here, andif we can't do it, we've, we've
, we've.
We're kind of betting ourfuture to win this year because
we don't have a future nowbecause of how much money we're
spending.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, and and now I guess that's the next question
is as a fan, do you prefer?
So, you personally, as a fan,do you prefer it?
Prefer the Michael Jordan orthe LeBron James Approach here,
so, or the Atlanta Braves andDodgers?
Do you prefer somebody who Imay go to the big show 8, 9, 10,
15 times in in a couple decades, or I'm?
(15:30):
I'm gonna win five, right, sowould you rather see your team
in the in the Super Bowl overand over and over again, or at
least in the finals, or wouldyou rather just say had I'd
rather just have those fivechampionships?
Take my lumps.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, there's so much .
There's so much randomization,especially when you come to the
NFL playoffs.
At one game, right, same withcollege basketball One game.
So the best team often doesn'twin just because of all the
random Exsociating.
Because if you're 40 60 foryour team to win, that means
four out of ten times you play,your team loses, right.
So you got the better team lose.
Often in the NFL playoffs,college basketball, even in the
(16:08):
middle, be any sport, the worstteam can win.
So, spending that big doc,those big dollars to try to win,
something could happen.
Your team couldn't click.
And Now you've leveraged yourfuture and it didn't work.
I Prefer the brave strategy ofgetting value of contracts
personally as a fan, because youall, your entire team, top to
(16:28):
bottom, is producing, yourentire team is valuable and you
know where your week leaks are.
When you're a team ofsuperstars, not only do you have
the on-the-field stuff, butwhen things start going bad off
the field with a team ofsuperstars, then you start
having all of these personalityconflicts.
I mean, famously, I think trailOwens could have played three
(16:48):
to five more years in In the NFLhad he not had the personality
that he had.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Oh, yeah, I mean to Torello and I mean you're
talking to relevant is all-timegreat talent and also all-time
great diva.
And You've got teams like let'sso I'll use two teams that I
can think of top a top of mind,or three teams.
You've got the the Los AngelesRams of 2020, 2019-2018, through
(17:19):
now, where they take thephilosophy of just f them picks
right, and they Sell away all oftheir draft picks to trade and
sign expensive players.
Got them a Super Bowl win,right.
They, they win the Super Bowl,not Matt Stafford.
But now this year and last year, you've got a Matt Stafford
with a Back that's as fragile asit can get.
(17:41):
He's like one hit from beingparalyzed from from the waist
down.
From what I've heard, he's gota Chronic issue with his back.
You've got a bunch of kind ofaging players.
You put yourself in a positionwhere you just have to sign
Aaron Donald and so you're kindof in in this cap Hell where
you're just stuck in this, thiscap position, and then you have
(18:03):
two teams that I can think ofthat had just a ton of draft
takes in the last few years theArizona Cardinals in the Chicago
Bears who are, have taken allthose picks and they almost feel
like the Cleveland Browns.
You've got all these picks butyou're just not good and I don't
know why.
But if the Cardinals come outin the next two years and become
a five, six, seven year run ofabsolute domination, I as a fan,
(18:29):
I don't know.
I don't know where I wouldrather prefer it.
But as a Miami Dolphins fan,miami's taken a little bit of
that of an FM picks stancethemselves with, you know, tyree
kill and Bradley Chubb andbringing in all this talent, and
I think Miami has done a reallygood job of being somewhere in
between.
But they're still in a prettynasty cap position.
(18:51):
They've got to sign ChristianWilkins.
I mean, they've got a bunch ofplayers that are coming up that
need to be paid and I'm not sureif they're gonna be able to pay
them.
Now the dolphins have gone theway of baseball to a degree
where Ross is just paying thesemassive signing bonuses and
saying, alright, you know, 80%of your contracts, the signing
bonus, go ahead and stay, youknow, stick around.
But the cap hits relatively low.
(19:13):
But I Think as a fan, you haveto weigh.
You have to weigh what you feelis the best and as an
organization, you have to weighwhat you think will sell the
most Seats and get the mostpeople in the room, and I think
Cincinnati might be a reallygreat compromise right.
The Bengals have all Kind ofhad all kinds of draft picks
(19:34):
recently, but they've got aquarterback who's willing to
take a little bit of a hit to Tomake the team good and to get
some some offensive line infront of him, so he doesn't get
the Andrew Luck treatment, yeah,and so I think that's that's
that's where we kind of findourselves in between is product
on the field versusChampionships, versus money in,
(19:55):
money out, and where does, wheredoes all that fit?
So First things first what doyou think about that as far as
the NFL?
And then second things secondwhat do you think?
You're shy, show me a time he'sgonna do.
Yeah, so let's, let's say yougo.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You say, chris, she's from the NFL in the you know
being, I'm gonna say, let'schoose college basketball.
So let's look at collegebasketball over, like 2010 to
2015, in the one and done era,2020, with the one and done era
you had coaches that were like,okay, the one and done is the
future, famous like a JohnCalipari, might, she's, she's,
he did this.
Sarah Houston is behind whenyou would just sign the get the
(20:33):
best player out of high schoolyou can.
You know he's want to be therefor one year.
And today was signed Williamson, carmella Anthony.
Currently towns these, these youknow Generational talents.
Or you know easily the bestplayer once every three to five
years.
Or do you build, do you grabthe players that are the best,
that are also going to stay fouryears.
(20:54):
So you'll kind of kind of whatwe're talking about here a
player that you're gonna get alot of value out of four years,
or the player that's you knowwe're going to get the best this
year and he's gone next year.
So all that coaching that I'mputting into him isn't going to
get me anything next year.
And I think what we found wasthe teams that got the one and
done's kind of won once everyyou know, couple years, three
(21:17):
years, the teams that put alltheir value in four years
players, one once every coupleto three years.
And then you have thesetranscendent teams like Duke
that won five times in the pasttwo decades.
Yeah, you kind of coming on one, three and that's a great
example.
Duke, one, five and, and theywere always kind of the one done
guys.
And then you had you con whentwo or three and they were the
four, you guys, you know, I betyou have examples in the NFL and
(21:40):
outside the transcendent teamlike the Patriots when it's all
they were winning every year forten years.
You had teams that really dumpmoney into a player and they
probably showed up in the teamsthat Tried to get a lot of value
and build a team over a fewyears and they ended up in a
Super Bowl.
So I don't know that one ismore Effective or more valuable
(22:02):
than the other, but I do knowthat we're going to see both of
them happen, because I don'tthink that.
I Don't think that Dodgers fanswant to Not see all the
superstars on the Dodgers.
They want a team that pays forthese best players to be there.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, and I think what you also find is somewhere
in between, right.
So You've got the other side ofthat, lionel Messi, right.
So Messi joins Inter Miami.
Messi takes a lot of off thefield equity and, for the first
time that I can think of, you'reseeing a major superstar in a
(22:47):
in a game and kind of a teamgame.
It's very similar to the NBA,where where one guy is not going
to win it all for you, but ayou know, two or three can and
the right, the right chemistrycan.
Lionel Messi is playing all themost important games.
He's making sure that you seehim on the field because,
instead of giving him tons andtons of money, you're giving him
(23:10):
tons and tons of equity incapital, which makes him want to
be in the field so he can getthe Apple TV revenues as high as
humanly possible, and I thinkit's a great product so far,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I mean, he's making a ton of money and you're right,
he's taking, I think, 10% offevery ticket.
Sell that he gets, that sellsthe game he's in, or something
stupid like that.
So, yeah, he's going to make alot of money off the field.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But I think your question is where does Atani end
up.
So first things first, wheredoes he go and then after that,
do you think you're going to seesomething new and interesting
come out of this where there ismore equity or there is more TV
deal money or something alongthose lines, to try and
incentivize him outside of hiscontract?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So I think you see a standard deal.
I think you see a 10-yearstupid amount of money deal for
him.
I don't think teams want to putthose kind of deals together
where you get TV rev for aplayer, at least right now,
because they don't want to openthat door for players to start
negotiating that Right.
Messi is a different beastbecause not only is he the
(24:12):
greatest player, but he's.
They're paying him a lot ofmoney to get eyes in the US.
They're trying to steal viewersfrom Europe, right.
And if, if you saw like atAtani, try to go to like a
Japanese league or say likeEuropean basketball, tried to
sign LeBron James, you would seea lot of those things get
pulled in there because they'dhave to not only match the money
(24:33):
in the US with willing to payhim, but they would have to
incentivize over that Right.
So I don't think we'll see itin a crazy innovative contract
here.
I think what you'll see is youwill see some team come give him
40 to 50 million a year,especially since he just got
injured.
He's going to have to haveTommy John third year, second
time in his career.
(24:53):
If you put the Venn diagramtogether of West Coast winning
and money.
I think the Dodgers are themost likely to do that.
I think Vegas has them at abouta 25% chance to pull them.
If you sacrifice the West Coast, then you start looking into
the Yankees a little bit moreand then you start getting into
teams that may not be winningright now, but they would bring
(25:17):
Otani into the front office.
So that's where you can reallysee something innovative, and I
think LeBron gets this treatment.
I think Tom Brady had thistreatment a little bit.
Hey, not only will we sign you,but we're going to bring you
into the front office and giveyou the people around you that
you want around you, right?
I mean, grock didn't end up inTampa Bay because Tampa Bay
wanted Grock.
Grock ended up in Tampa Baybecause Tom Brady won Grock,
(25:40):
right?
And that's where you startgetting into the Padres, the
Mets, the Mariners and maybestays in the Angels.
That's where they would say,okay, not only Otani, but we pay
you a ton of money to be here.
We will let you look at all thefree agents and make some
decisions about who you aregoing to play with, because if
he goes to the Dodgers, he isplaying with the roster that is
(26:02):
there today.
He does not want to have anycontrol over who plays around
him, and I think that's wherethey're going to get creative
and innovative is giving himmore control over the entire
envelope product.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
So that's an interesting point, because
you've seen Aaron Rodgers fairlypublicly say he left the
Packers because he didn't haveenough control over decisions,
russell Wilson leaving theSeahawks because he wants more
control over decisions.
So that's an interestingconcept.
As far as do we start to seemore of a shift in all the
(26:36):
leagues with hey, I think,control right, so let's call it
voting shares.
Voting shares are equally asimportant as value.
So do you see a world in whichOtani takes, let's say, the
Dodgers offer him 50 million ayear, but the Angels offer him
(26:58):
45 and you get to pick yourfriends?
Does that make a difference?
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The Dodgers have a perfect form for him.
I don't think it would, becausethe Dodgers, yeah.
I think if Otani were to pick ateam around him, it would
probably be the Dodgers, justbecause they have Freeman and
Mookie Betts and I mean theyhave three MVP caliber players
already there.
If it wasn't the Dodgers nowgood they are I think you could
see someone like the Mets or theAngels even come back and say I
(27:25):
think he has some.
I don't think he's ever had a500 season with the Angels, so
he may just want a new uniform.
But if we take your example andsay, okay, well, what about the
Padres?
The Padres said we'll give youa little less money, but you
could pick the team around you,I think that becomes very
tempting for him.
I think and I think we're goingto see that I think that's going
to ultimately become an issuelong term, because when you have
(27:48):
a player like that, then theplayer becomes more important
oftentimes than the coach, right?
I mean I can't imagine and I'mgoing to keep going back to Ron
because he's probably I mean,he's a generational talent,
maybe the best player to everplay in the NBA, depending on
what age you are If LeBron hadan issue with the coach.
(28:09):
Lebron isn't leaving the teamright.
If you're a coach in the NBAand you want to run a set play,
for somebody to take a threepoint shot from the corner and
LeBron wants to pick and rollwhere he finishes at the basket,
guess which play you're runningright, so that when you give
that up, you're going to startcausing conflict and the coach
(28:30):
is going to be largely justmanaging that superstar, not
only getting the team aroundthem, but running the team how
the superstar wants.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, and I think to your point.
I don't know no disrespect tohim as a coach, but I don't
think Tyron Lew was a coachworthy of coaching LeBron.
I think Tyron Lew had a goodrelationship with LeBron and he
more or less stated a LeBron'sway oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Like you same.
I mean, I think Tom Brady andBill Belichick were wonders
together, but I don't think BillBelichick has any rings.
Without time, I'm going to haveall of Boston send me a letter
for this.
But Bill Belichick doesn't havea lot of those rings without
Tom Brady sitting there beingable to make the passes Tom
Brady made.
And Tom Brady doesn't havethose rings if he doesn't take
(29:18):
the page, the paycheck, to putthe team around them.
Right, you replace Tom Bradywith Aaron Rodgers.
Over that same career.
They don't have the same amountof rings.
That's just the truth, becausethe money's going to Aaron
Rodgers and not the team.
So you are looking for, whenyou look at Otati, he may want
that, but he may also just wantto set back and make money.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, and, by the way , if anyone wants to write a
crystal letter, the address is1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,
Northwest Washington DC, 20500.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Hashtag in person.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I think, and I agree, I think there is a degree
of separation between decisionmaking, the right coach, all
that kind of stuff.
But I think when it comes downto a decision like Shohei Otani,
I think the entire league,whenever those moves are made
right, I'm taking my talents toMiami I think when those things
(30:14):
happen, I think the entireleague stops and takes a breath,
and so that's.
I guess that's the nextquestion.
So let's say he, let's say thePadres their other hat in, and
let's say they put a lot ofmoney hey, here's a bunch of
money and you could pick yourfriends.
What does that mean for therest of the free agents?
So they're all just sittingthere waiting for him to sign,
or how does that work?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah.
So there are going to bedifferent classes of free agents
.
So obviously you know you'regoing to have teams with just a
buttload of money sitting aroundwho are like, hey, we want to
all sign a ton, right, so you'regoing to have the second
through the 10th best player inthe league, want that money and
know these teams are going tospend, but they're not going to
(30:55):
spend until Otani find wherehe's going to go.
The Yankees aren't going tosign someone if they think
they're still in on thesweepstakes, right, they're at
least going to get told no,because they know all these
players are going to sit around.
Then you're going to have thenext tier of player and you're
going to have the next tier ofteams that are going to start
buying relatively quickly.
(31:15):
They're like, hey, we don'tknow that Otani's signing, but
we know he's not signing with us, so let's go ahead and get a
decent shortstop and not have tofight the Yankees for him.
So the question then becomegive me clearly having a tier
one, players who are Otani andthe other guys that are coming
up for you to see, you have thetier two, like vets that aren't
going to sign anything remotelyclose to what he's getting
(31:37):
probably getting main contractsthey're going to sign relatively
quickly.
It's kind of that gray area ofpeople between the main
contracts and the max contractswhen they want to start falling.
But yeah, you're top five,you're top 10 free agents.
They're not going to landanywhere until Otani makes his
decision, because the top fiveor 10 teams are going to have
their Otani money that theydon't want to spend until he
(32:00):
falls.
Because imagine you're, youknow the Cincinnati Reds and you
think you have an outside shoton him, and then all of a sudden
you sign three players and thenhe calls you and goes hey, I
would have played for you hadyou just waited an extra day.
Then you lost the best playerof all time because you were
impatient.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
How new is the idea of I guess the quote unquote
super team, right?
So in the NBA the super teamthing you have very publicly
people like Magic Johnson andCharles Barkley going out there
saying that that back in theirday there was no super team.
You didn't get to just playwith your best friends, you had
to scrap and fight with what youhad, whatever.
And then you've got playerslike LeBron and Carmelo, who you
(32:42):
know built super teams wheneverthey wanted to, or Kevin Durant
, for that matter.
The NFL is about the badge morethan it is about the player,
and so it's a little harder tobuild the super team.
But you've still seen a lot ofthat happening with holdouts and
people that are holding out forcontracts or people who will
quote unquote retire right,gronk, famously retired from,
(33:02):
didn't retire.
He threatened to retire becausethey were going to trade him to
the Lions.
And you've got these playersthat either retire or sit around
and wait or kind of dancearound their contract situations
and try and go play withsomeone like Tom Brady.
And in the NFL you can't getthat elite level talent that way
as much, because the contractsare fairly restrictive.
Both you know the teams stillhave a lot of power of who they
(33:23):
keep, but the players can stillkind of, you know, leave you on
bell, can just say I'm not goingto play this year and you can,
you know, can find me whateveryou want.
It didn't work out so good forhim, but you have this new trend
where players are doing a lotmore holdouts, a lot more faking
of injuries, a lot more tryingto push back and fight that
(33:44):
system the way it is how.
I don't follow the MLB veryclosely at all.
I think most of what I get fromthe MLB I learned from you.
So how new is the super teamwith the MLB?
Is that something that'schanging across all of sports,
or is that something that theMLB has been doing for a long
time?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, so you sort of have paid the most for their
roster for a long time.
Astros are up there, dodgersare up there.
They historically just pay more.
The NBA is easier to build thesuper team and I think that's
something that LeBron figuredout.
Lebron and Paul figured outrelative I mean even Garnett and
Allen and Pierce before themkind of figured out.
Nba have fewer players that areimportant at any one time, so
(34:24):
you can have three massiveplayers at two high schoolers
out there and likely win achampionship.
Nfl MLB is a little bit harderbecause every player is more
valuable.
So, like, your weakest link inthe NBA matters less than your
weakest link on an NFL team.
If you have a superstar teamand you put me out there at
(34:45):
cornerback, we're still givingup a lot of touchdowns on the
NFL team, right, because theycan just target me.
So you, the super team andother sports is harder to create
with them.
The NBA In NBA you get outthere with two or three, three
friends and you just make yoursuper team take a little less
money.
Nfl MLB you need NHL, you needthe whole team.
(35:07):
You need the depth there aswell.
So unless you just want to payor unless somebody is going to
take a lower contract.
It's just harder to do and Idon't know the concept isn't
there.
I don't know people don't wantto do it, but the only way to
get a lot of these players onone team because it's easy.
Like so, if you have threefriends like Bosch, wade and
(35:28):
LeBron, they can get in a roomand say, okay, we're all gonna
make 10% less and we're in mychain chipper To get 22 NFL
players in a room to all go.
Okay, we're all equallyvaluable here and we will all
take the exact same amount ofmoney you got for this super
team.
And what is a championship oran MLB team where you need 10
people to get in the same roomand do that?
I think that's relativelyimpotant.
(35:50):
Even you know you can get 22NFL players to agree on the same
plate.
I mean, they're arguing abouthuddle every every time they can
, right, so you just it's justeasier than the NBA because you
need Consensus for so many fewerpeople.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
That's fair and I think I think the NFL and the
MLB Also have a lot more depth.
I think in the NBA, once youget to your bench I mean, the
drop-off from LeBron to yourthird guy on the bench is
Incredible.
And the NFL you never know thatthere's a Brock Purdy Just
sitting back there at your thirdstring quarterback that turns
(36:26):
into Brock Purdy, right, and younever know when you're gonna
find Tom Brady in the sixthround of the NFL draft.
And also for those, thoseadd-in players, someone like
Peyton Manning, tom Brady, aaronRodgers can take a wide
receiver who Would probably bewide receiver three on any other
team and turn them into widereceiver one because they're
that good, and I guess that's.
(36:47):
The next question is howapplicable is that to the MLB?
Is Shiohei Otani that good thathe can just make everyone
around him that much better?
Or is that kind of the reasonthey, the angels, haven't won a
whole lot?
Because it's not that important?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
you can't, because I mean no matter who you are, I
mean if you're a Ponnie, even ifyou're a tiny, if you're
getting on base a out 10 times,you're up on plate right.
If I'm batting behind you, Ican't move you forward.
So Otani a great stat to lookat for him, or any baseball
player is is home runs versusRBI.
So how many times do you hitthe ball over the fence and
everybody who's who's on thebases cross home Versus RBI's?
(37:23):
How many times do you hit theball and people cross home?
So if you get a home run, youby definition, get one RBI
because you cross home right inIn 2023, otani had 44 home runs,
but 95 were up to batting in.
So in all the times he hit, 95people crossed home, and we know
44 of those are him hittinghimself across home.
So he's had 51 Times thatsomeone else has crossed home
(37:49):
because he hit the ball rightNow let's look at some.
Another great player this yearis about the same amount, but
has better players around him inRonald Acuna jr For the for the
Braves.
He has 37 home runs.
So he has Seven less home runson the season right now than
Otani does, but his runs battedin are 98.
(38:10):
So he's 98 runs batted into.
Otani's 95 off, 44 off, lesshome runs.
So he is getting more.
People are in front of himgetting on Like no matter how
good I am as a baseball player,I Cannot Put you on base.
There is nothing I can do to getyou on base.
(38:32):
No matter how good I am, right,lebron James can find me in the
corner and pass me the ball andat least give me an open
three-point shot to increase thestats that I get on.
In the NFL, certainquarterbacks can just throw the
ball into a perfect positionthat let me have a higher chance
of of catching the ball.
In Baseball you are up thereagainst the pitcher.
(38:55):
Now if somebody's on base there, you could argue there are some
things a runner on base Makeshit hitters have a better
opportunity, and that's true,but largely the batter still has
to hit the ball.
There's an outside of likemaybe pointers I can give you in
the dugout.
You know this guy likes topitch this way, so look for this
pitch here.
(39:15):
I Can't make you a better hitter, no matter what Otani said to
me.
I am not going up today andhitting a 90 mile per hour
fastball.
There's nothing I can do, whileLeBron James could draw a
double team and put me into athree-point spot when I'm taking
an open three-pointer.
If LeBron James on my team andwe were playing basketball
(39:37):
together, I may get three pointsjust because you would have to
guard LeBron, especially in thisprime.
So much that left me with anopportunity to do more damage in
baseball Yours.
No matter how good you are, youstill have the other people
around.
You have to get on base andOtani can't make that happen.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But it sounds to me and correct me if I'm wrong on
this that one of the reasonsthat the MLB honors these really
long contracts and the NFL onlygives those contracts to
Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrowand Tom Brady, the only reason
that those players get these10-year deals, is because in the
(40:19):
NFL I'm looking at, it may takeme two years to build a Super
Bowl winning team or one.
If I decide to just throw thewhole, you know, throw all the
house money at everybody.
It takes me no time at all tobe to build a winning team.
But I need that central cogbecause that player is so
valuable to the game.
I mean, you're talking about thecutoff between Alex Smith, who
(40:41):
as a human being is one of myfavorite people of all time, but
as a quarterback he's, he'sgood, he's a really good
quarterback.
Patrick Mahomes to Alex Smithis as a dramatic jump and so I
need that one piece in thatpuzzle and I need him for 10
years.
And the MLB yeah, kind ofanybody who's even remotely very
, very good as an all-star ofany caliber whatsoever.
(41:03):
I need him from for 10 yearsbecause it might take me that
long to build the winning team,which is probably why it sounds
like a Ohtani, so frustrated andthey have a timeline right like
you're not getting, you're notbecoming a better hitter when
you're 35 years old.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So they they leverage those later years on that
contract to bring that person in.
Because you can't pay someone200 million dollars, you're, the
money's just not there.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
So you let them almost have a retirement gig on
your, on your team, whilethey're just sitting in the
dugout and I think I think partof the 10-year contract thing
I'm thinking is the Braves too,where they're signing these guys
you know, these young guys whoare on their first deals to
longer contracts to get themoverall contracts cheaper, but
to keep those pieces in in playuntil they can build the right
(41:46):
team.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, and, and the Braves are famous again Signing
a player who's 21 to aneight-year contract, so that
they one of the pitches is hey,when you turn 28, you still have
a max deal in front of you ifyou want to take it with us or
anyone else.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I love that.
So I guess I guess only timewill tell what happens to Ohtani
deal and, if there's, ifthere's anything special that
happens with it.
But I think this has been a areally interesting conversation.
We might come back to contractslater, once the once the deal
gets signed, and talk about ifsomething did happen and maybe
compare that to people likePatrick Mahon is in Lionel Messi
and Do a compare and contrastof of the different deals and
(42:26):
the different things that areoffered to see who is who's in
the forefront of innovation.
What, what league is is tryingthe hardest to bring in, to
bring in the players in the mostinteresting way.
I have been your host, johnmode.
Remember no problem is too bigor too small to solve.
Innovation is born out ofnecessity and curiosity.
We are all about pushing thoseordinary limits and thank you so
(42:49):
much for joining us.
Please don't forget tosubscribe and remember you are
never stuck.
So last time we opened the door to the fan
experience and how we couldinnovate going to a game trying
to promote those fans to go backto the stadium.
How can we improve that overallexperience?
And today I'm joined once againby my co-host, chris, as we
discuss contracts and how thecontract negotiation has changed
(00:22):
.
Over the last, let's say,decade.
You've seen a lot of reallyinteresting things happen with
the salary cap.
Now the salary cap is themaximum amount that a team can
spend on players per year, andteams have gotten really
creative in how they negotiateand navigate those waters.
But we're going to talk alittle bit about there's a big
contract coming up on baseballwith Shohei Otani.
(00:44):
We're going to talk baseballand how his contract may change
the game, as well as opening thedoor to other types of
contracts and maybe getting alittle bit into Lionel Messi and
his contract as well.
So with that, let's go aheadand get started.
Chris, welcome, how are you?
I'm doing well, and today whatwe're going to dive into is is
(01:06):
innovating the contract right?
So we're going to talk about insports when we have these
players.
So Tom Brady famously took Imean we're talking 20 years of
discounts effectively to be on awinning team.
Aaron Rodgers may his seasonrest in peace.
I hope he heals up and feelsmuch better very soon.
(01:27):
Aaron Rodgers and RussellWilson have done almost exactly
the opposite, where they havetaken the max deal every chance
they get and let's print money.
Let's get as much money as wepossibly can Take care of our
families.
I don't have any beef with thatat all, but there's just a
seemingly large dichotomybetween players that want to win
(01:48):
and focus on winning andplayers who want to make money.
And when we're looking into thepopularity of sports and how
much sports has grown, you'retalking about the average salary
for an NFL player in 1960 isjust under $18,000 a year and
the average salary for an NFLplayer now is $860,000 per year,
(02:10):
and not talking about inflationor anything like that.
But we can talk about thegrowth of the league.
From 2001 to 2022, the NFL grew$14 billion in annual value and
you're talking a four and ahalf times growth, which I'm
sure between 1960 and 2001 thatnumber was dramatically bigger
(02:34):
as far as the growth percentage.
But sports in and of itself hasbeen the escape for just the
everyman right.
You've got people who can'tafford to pay their bills every
month, but they will not miss anNFL game.
They will not miss a game fortheir favorite team Fan is a
(02:55):
fanatic.
So it's there's this idea thatsports are an escape from our
everyday lives.
And when you look at the NFLand you look at how these, these
famous people, these, thesereally talented players,
prioritize how they go abouttheir business, them being the
CEO of their own destiny, howthey go about operating their
(03:18):
business, and when you havesomething that's as popular as
the NFL or the MLB or the NBA,you find yourself in this
situation where, at this point,how you operate your business
becomes everybody else'sbusiness.
How do we view what you just thedecisions you just made and NFL
(03:39):
running backs today are havingthis, this silent battle or
actually it's not so silent,it's actually quite public
battle with ownership and andsalaries, and they're basically
saying it for somebody who's sovaluable to the organization.
I'd like to get paid like that.
And running backs have a veryvalid point there.
Their lifespan in the NFL isdramatically shorter than almost
(04:01):
any other position because theyare taking a brunt of the
beating and they can change agame so fast and their skill set
is so unique and what they dois so special, they want to make
that money.
So now we're looking at aperiod that are we in a changing
point or a turning point?
Are we moving away from thelong term deal?
Are we going closer to the longterm deal?
(04:21):
Are we looking at a positionwhere contracts are going to
become a lot more centeredaround winning and metrics?
And how you performspecifically dictates your
career, how you typicallydictates your contract, and will
the players like that?
And so, as we look into thislens, where do you think we're
(04:42):
headed?
Speaker 2 (04:43):
Yeah, and a great example going on today is Shohei
Botani.
He's in Los Angeles, he'splaying for the Angels.
He's famously wanting, says hewants to win, and in baseball
I'm a baseball nerd you have allthe stats that says this is one
of the best players.
It's not the greatest player ofall time.
The stats say he's the greatestplayer of all time.
He's 29 or 30.
(05:05):
He's about to sign a 10 yeardeal for somewhere between $400
and $600 million.
So let's break down his futureand let's talk about does that
long term deal still exist?
So first off, let's answer yourquestion yes, I believe long
term still still deal willalways exist until you start
paying people like how much theycan make over a long term deal
(05:26):
in one or two years.
That's something that'shandicapping teams today and I
think it will forever, becauseif you are a 30 year old player
and somebody's willing to signyou for 10 years and guarantee
that money, you are going totake that right Because you're
not getting $500 million a year,$50 million a year if you're a
39 year old player.
So you sign that deal now andyou get it when you're that old.
(05:46):
So I think the long term dealis what the player wants.
I don't think that will go away, especially for your players
like Othani, tom Brady, thegreats right.
They're always going to be longterm deals, and that's the way
that you will be able to paysomeone.
The most money is over thoseyears.
The limiting factor, though, ishow much money do you want
invested in a player?
(06:07):
You just mentioned runningbacks in the NFL, it's almost a
revolving door, because they gethurt, right.
Well, I don't want money tiedup in someone who's
statistically the most likelyperson on the field to get hurt,
and unfortunately, in the NFL,your value is determined by what
the teams are willing to payyou.
I mean, you're a free agent.
You can sign with any team, butif no team's willing to pay you
(06:28):
more than a million dollars ayear, well, your value is a
million dollars a year.
John, I think you're a valuableperson, but if you went to the
NFL free market, you would getoffered three dollars and 10
cents a year, because that'syour value in the NFL.
I don't think you can complainabout that.
The owner said back and said youknow, with your skill, with
your 12 second, 40 time, you'reworth this much money.
(06:51):
So how do you value someonelike Othani.
And then we're going to go intohis office and this is going to
be a circus, right?
He says there are three thingsthat are most valuable to him.
So we're going to take him inhis work.
Winning is the most valuable.
He wants rings, kind of likeLeBron said he wanted a ring
when he went to Miami with Boschand Wade and they won.
They won one or two, right.
(07:12):
Then he says, as all of us say,we want money.
And then the third thing islocation.
He's, you know, from Japan.
He would rather be West Coastbecause it's him so much quicker
to get home than it would be ifhe was somewhere like the Bronx
.
How much money is winning worthfor him?
Is he willing to take $50million a year to be on a bad
team or $30 million a year to beon a good team?
I don't know, but I think he'sthe player that's going to get
(07:35):
that.
And the reason he's going totake less to be on the winning
team is because he gets so muchmoney off of Jersey cells.
I think he's the highestgrossing Jersey cell in the MLB.
He is going to look to win toexpand his access to players.
I think, oh man, I forget.
I think when the Angels were inSeattle or Boston, I think when
(07:57):
they were in Boston Boston wasselling O'Tawney jerseys because
he's that popular.
So he's going to look to getaccess to players and he knows
people are going to buy hisjersey, people are going to buy
his autograph stuff, people aregoing to buy his cleats if he's
winning.
So he's looking to go to a teamthat will let him do that.
That's the Dodgers, that's theYankees, maybe the Padres, even
though they're coming off of badseason.
(08:19):
Yankees are too, but they spendso much money they can rebuild.
That's why the Mariners are anoutside shot, because they're
having good season.
But he's looking to go to awinning team.
So I think, john, the questionis how much is winning worth?
So, from your experience, howmuch was winning worth to Tom
Brady If he took no NFL salary?
How much do you think, john,the Super Bowl rings made him in
(08:44):
lifetime contracts?
Speaker 1 (08:46):
And when it comes to Tom Brady, I think not only did
he, his ambition far outweighedhis desire to be just rich for
the sake of being rich.
And I think to your point, yeah, I think he made far more off
the field than he made on thefield just by winning six rings
and being able to be Tom Brady.
(09:06):
I think the tizes that he'sgetting right now kind of
teasing him joining the ManningCast is a format of him kind of
teasing into how valuable he isas a commentator.
And when you talk Jersey salesright, so I know in the NFL it's
about two thirds of the Jerseysale goes to the player.
(09:27):
I imagine that's the same inthe MLB, but in the NFL you're
talking the 25th or 26th highestgrossing Jersey sales are
running back.
They're far past 20, before youleave quarterbacks and tight
ends and wide receivers.
So when you're looking atsomeone like a running back, I
think those contracts becausethey don't get as much from
(09:50):
Jersey sales, they don't get asmuch from the contract itself
you have to look either off thefield or you have to look at
trying to get creative with howthe contract is organized.
And I think in the NFL we havecap limits, obviously, but with
these big deals the cap isgetting bigger and bigger and
bigger.
And I did be interested to seeI don't know if the MLB does it,
(10:12):
quite the same, but I know inthe NFL there's NFL is
incredibly talented at kickingthe can down the road
financially Lots of signingbonuses, lots of long term deals
that are very back loaded orfront loaded to try and move
that money one way or the other,pay the players as much as they
want, but also to make sure theorganization can continue to
(10:34):
fund those new people.
So in the case of Otani, isthere a chance that they go hey,
we're going to give you $75million signing bonus and then
average you out the rest of theway, or does it not necessarily?
Speaker 2 (10:46):
matter the signing bonus.
Baseball is famously the only Ithink their only sport that has
only guaranteed contracts.
So there is no, there's no,there's no incentive based
contracts.
And then I'll be there, maybebonuses, but your contract is
guaranteed.
So signing bonuses really don'tmatter.
People don't want incentivestuff because they just want
that guaranteed money.
But what you do in the NFLbecause you defer contracts.
So you know, bobby Benin isprobably the most famous Otani
(11:10):
will almost certainly fall intothis bucket.
Scherzer has even King I thinkKinger for Junior like the
fourth highest paid player onthe reds this year and he
retired feels like a decade agonow.
So what you do is you signsomeone to this.
Let's just use a hundredmillion dollar contract for easy
math and then you go okay,we're signing you to a hundred
million dollar contract, we'regoing to pay you instead of $10
(11:30):
million a year for 10 years,we're going to pay you $9
million a year for 12 years.
So every year they have asavings on that cap, but you pay
it longer and ultimately theplayer will make more money
because they will have deferreda chunk of it.
(11:50):
So then the reason theydeferred is there's a financial
incentive of an extra percentageor an extra year salary that
will get taxed onto it.
And I think Scherzer is goingto make money to like 24 years
something stupid like thatBecause he signed these big $40
million a year deals and teamscan't just afford it and because
in the MLB you also don't havea hard cap.
I think NFL you have a hard cap, right, so you can't.
(12:12):
There is a number you can'tspend more than correct.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Yeah, the NFL is going to.
There's a hard cap and you haveto be below the salary cap
before the beginning of the year.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah, so then I'll be .
You actually use a soft cap andluxury tax.
You could.
If you were an MLB team, youcould spend.
You could be the Mets and spend$500 million on contracts to
lose most of your games.
The Mets are a dumpster firethat you, I'm saying with the
Padres.
Padres spent a lot of money,paid the luxury tax.
They didn't get what theythought they'd get out of it.
(12:44):
Honestly, later we should lookat the Atlanta Braves.
They kind of money balled itand they only pay for people
that get value out of theircontract.
So the Yankees will pay a lotto have the best player today,
but they mortgage their futureon doing that Same with the
Padres and the Mets.
And then they have all thismoney.
They're trying to figure outwhat to do with it.
The Braves go.
Listen, man, we've put yournumbers into our you know
(13:05):
analysis machine and we shouldpay you I can't pay you a dime
over $120 million a year.
Another team lost from $250million.
They'll go to that other teamand the Braves will go.
Well, we wouldn't even want toafford it because we don't think
the value is there.
They famously only takevaluable contracts and they also
have more divisionchampionships than any other
team.
I don't think that is acoincidence.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
No, so okay.
So let's play a little.
Innovate the contract for asecond.
Is future closer to what theAtlanta Braves are doing?
Or is the future closer to, youknow, a future where we
literally celebrate Shohei Otaniday and we pay this guy for the
next 28 years and we justembrace that?
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I think you're going to have two.
I think you're going to havetwo futures.
So I'm going to be a littlepolitical here and say both,
which is probably not what youwant.
You're going to have the morefrequently successful teams that
go the path of the Braves.
They're going to be a moremid-market team Braves let me
like me to call them amid-market team.
They are a powerhouse of a team, but they aren't in LA or New
York, right?
So you will have these teamsthat look to get the most value
(14:13):
out of their contracts, like theBraves, and you will see them
in the playoffs more frequently.
Even in the other school ofthought is going to be pick your
year.
So say 2024 is your year.
You sign all the best playersyou can.
You don't play money ball, youjust sign the best players you
can for whatever amount of moneyyou can.
(14:34):
You have a two-year, three-yearwindow to win, and then all
those players are 35 and now yougot to stick onto those
contracts for five years andyou're in the basement for five
years and then you, you know,get rid of those contracts and
then pick your year to try towin again, kind of like what the
Jets did this year before,obviously, aaron Rybis injury
said hey, we are going to spendour money and we're going to
(14:56):
have a two-year window here, andif we can't do it, we've, we've
, we've.
We're kind of betting ourfuture to win this year because
we don't have a future nowbecause of how much money we're
spending.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Yeah, and and now I guess that's the next question
is as a fan, do you prefer?
So, you personally, as a fan,do you prefer it?
Prefer the Michael Jordan orthe LeBron James Approach here,
so, or the Atlanta Braves andDodgers?
Do you prefer somebody who Imay go to the big show 8, 9, 10,
15 times in in a couple decades, or I'm?
(15:30):
I'm gonna win five, right, sowould you rather see your team
in the in the Super Bowl overand over and over again, or at
least in the finals, or wouldyou rather just say had I'd
rather just have those fivechampionships?
Take my lumps.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
Yeah, there's so much .
There's so much randomization,especially when you come to the
NFL playoffs.
At one game, right, same withcollege basketball One game.
So the best team often doesn'twin just because of all the
random Exsociating.
Because if you're 40 60 foryour team to win, that means
four out of ten times you play,your team loses, right.
So you got the better team lose.
Often in the NFL playoffs,college basketball, even in the
(16:08):
middle, be any sport, the worstteam can win.
So, spending that big doc,those big dollars to try to win,
something could happen.
Your team couldn't click.
And Now you've leveraged yourfuture and it didn't work.
I Prefer the brave strategy ofgetting value of contracts
personally as a fan, because youall, your entire team, top to
(16:28):
bottom, is producing, yourentire team is valuable and you
know where your week leaks are.
When you're a team ofsuperstars, not only do you have
the on-the-field stuff, butwhen things start going bad off
the field with a team ofsuperstars, then you start
having all of these personalityconflicts.
I mean, famously, I think trailOwens could have played three
(16:48):
to five more years in In the NFLhad he not had the personality
that he had.
Speaker 1 (16:53):
Oh, yeah, I mean to Torello and I mean you're
talking to relevant is all-timegreat talent and also all-time
great diva.
And You've got teams like let'sso I'll use two teams that I
can think of top a top of mind,or three teams.
You've got the the Los AngelesRams of 2020, 2019-2018, through
(17:19):
now, where they take thephilosophy of just f them picks
right, and they Sell away all oftheir draft picks to trade and
sign expensive players.
Got them a Super Bowl win,right.
They, they win the Super Bowl,not Matt Stafford.
But now this year and last year, you've got a Matt Stafford
with a Back that's as fragile asit can get.
(17:41):
He's like one hit from beingparalyzed from from the waist
down.
From what I've heard, he's gota Chronic issue with his back.
You've got a bunch of kind ofaging players.
You put yourself in a positionwhere you just have to sign
Aaron Donald and so you're kindof in in this cap Hell where
you're just stuck in this, thiscap position, and then you have
(18:03):
two teams that I can think ofthat had just a ton of draft
takes in the last few years theArizona Cardinals in the Chicago
Bears who are, have taken allthose picks and they almost feel
like the Cleveland Browns.
You've got all these picks butyou're just not good and I don't
know why.
But if the Cardinals come outin the next two years and become
a five, six, seven year run ofabsolute domination, I as a fan,
(18:29):
I don't know.
I don't know where I wouldrather prefer it.
But as a Miami Dolphins fan,miami's taken a little bit of
that of an FM picks stancethemselves with, you know, tyree
kill and Bradley Chubb andbringing in all this talent, and
I think Miami has done a reallygood job of being somewhere in
between.
But they're still in a prettynasty cap position.
(18:51):
They've got to sign ChristianWilkins.
I mean, they've got a bunch ofplayers that are coming up that
need to be paid and I'm not sureif they're gonna be able to pay
them.
Now the dolphins have gone theway of baseball to a degree
where Ross is just paying thesemassive signing bonuses and
saying, alright, you know, 80%of your contracts, the signing
bonus, go ahead and stay, youknow, stick around.
But the cap hits relatively low.
(19:13):
But I Think as a fan, you haveto weigh.
You have to weigh what you feelis the best and as an
organization, you have to weighwhat you think will sell the
most Seats and get the mostpeople in the room, and I think
Cincinnati might be a reallygreat compromise right.
The Bengals have all Kind ofhad all kinds of draft picks
(19:34):
recently, but they've got aquarterback who's willing to
take a little bit of a hit to Tomake the team good and to get
some some offensive line infront of him, so he doesn't get
the Andrew Luck treatment, yeah,and so I think that's that's
that's where we kind of findourselves in between is product
on the field versusChampionships, versus money in,
(19:55):
money out, and where does, wheredoes all that fit?
So First things first what doyou think about that as far as
the NFL?
And then second things secondwhat do you think?
You're shy, show me a time he'sgonna do.
Yeah, so let's, let's say yougo.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
You say, chris, she's from the NFL in the you know
being, I'm gonna say, let'schoose college basketball.
So let's look at collegebasketball over, like 2010 to
2015, in the one and done era,2020, with the one and done era
you had coaches that were like,okay, the one and done is the
future, famous like a JohnCalipari, might, she's, she's,
he did this.
Sarah Houston is behind whenyou would just sign the get the
(20:33):
best player out of high schoolyou can.
You know he's want to be therefor one year.
And today was signed Williamson, carmella Anthony.
Currently towns these, these youknow Generational talents.
Or you know easily the bestplayer once every three to five
years.
Or do you build, do you grabthe players that are the best,
that are also going to stay fouryears.
(20:54):
So you'll kind of kind of whatwe're talking about here a
player that you're gonna get alot of value out of four years,
or the player that's you knowwe're going to get the best this
year and he's gone next year.
So all that coaching that I'mputting into him isn't going to
get me anything next year.
And I think what we found wasthe teams that got the one and
done's kind of won once everyyou know, couple years, three
(21:17):
years, the teams that put alltheir value in four years
players, one once every coupleto three years.
And then you have thesetranscendent teams like Duke
that won five times in the pasttwo decades.
Yeah, you kind of coming on one, three and that's a great
example.
Duke, one, five and, and theywere always kind of the one done
guys.
And then you had you con whentwo or three and they were the
four, you guys, you know, I betyou have examples in the NFL and
(21:40):
outside the transcendent teamlike the Patriots when it's all
they were winning every year forten years.
You had teams that really dumpmoney into a player and they
probably showed up in the teamsthat Tried to get a lot of value
and build a team over a fewyears and they ended up in a
Super Bowl.
So I don't know that one ismore Effective or more valuable
(22:02):
than the other, but I do knowthat we're going to see both of
them happen, because I don'tthink that.
I Don't think that Dodgers fanswant to Not see all the
superstars on the Dodgers.
They want a team that pays forthese best players to be there.
Speaker 1 (22:25):
Yeah, and I think what you also find is somewhere
in between, right.
So You've got the other side ofthat, lionel Messi, right.
So Messi joins Inter Miami.
Messi takes a lot of off thefield equity and, for the first
time that I can think of, you'reseeing a major superstar in a
(22:47):
in a game and kind of a teamgame.
It's very similar to the NBA,where where one guy is not going
to win it all for you, but ayou know, two or three can and
the right, the right chemistrycan.
Lionel Messi is playing all themost important games.
He's making sure that you seehim on the field because,
instead of giving him tons andtons of money, you're giving him
(23:10):
tons and tons of equity incapital, which makes him want to
be in the field so he can getthe Apple TV revenues as high as
humanly possible, and I thinkit's a great product so far,
yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I mean, he's making a ton of money and you're right,
he's taking, I think, 10% offevery ticket.
Sell that he gets, that sellsthe game he's in, or something
stupid like that.
So, yeah, he's going to make alot of money off the field.
Speaker 1 (23:33):
But I think your question is where does Atani end
up.
So first things first, wheredoes he go and then after that,
do you think you're going to seesomething new and interesting
come out of this where there ismore equity or there is more TV
deal money or something alongthose lines, to try and
incentivize him outside of hiscontract?
Speaker 2 (23:50):
So I think you see a standard deal.
I think you see a 10-yearstupid amount of money deal for
him.
I don't think teams want to putthose kind of deals together
where you get TV rev for aplayer, at least right now,
because they don't want to openthat door for players to start
negotiating that Right.
Messi is a different beastbecause not only is he the
(24:12):
greatest player, but he's.
They're paying him a lot ofmoney to get eyes in the US.
They're trying to steal viewersfrom Europe, right.
And if, if you saw like atAtani, try to go to like a
Japanese league or say likeEuropean basketball, tried to
sign LeBron James, you would seea lot of those things get
pulled in there because they'dhave to not only match the money
(24:33):
in the US with willing to payhim, but they would have to
incentivize over that Right.
So I don't think we'll see itin a crazy innovative contract
here.
I think what you'll see is youwill see some team come give him
40 to 50 million a year,especially since he just got
injured.
He's going to have to haveTommy John third year, second
time in his career.
(24:53):
If you put the Venn diagramtogether of West Coast winning
and money.
I think the Dodgers are themost likely to do that.
I think Vegas has them at abouta 25% chance to pull them.
If you sacrifice the West Coast, then you start looking into
the Yankees a little bit moreand then you start getting into
teams that may not be winningright now, but they would bring
(25:17):
Otani into the front office.
So that's where you can reallysee something innovative, and I
think LeBron gets this treatment.
I think Tom Brady had thistreatment a little bit.
Hey, not only will we sign you,but we're going to bring you
into the front office and giveyou the people around you that
you want around you, right?
I mean, grock didn't end up inTampa Bay because Tampa Bay
wanted Grock.
Grock ended up in Tampa Baybecause Tom Brady won Grock,
(25:40):
right?
And that's where you startgetting into the Padres, the
Mets, the Mariners and maybestays in the Angels.
That's where they would say,okay, not only Otani, but we pay
you a ton of money to be here.
We will let you look at all thefree agents and make some
decisions about who you aregoing to play with, because if
he goes to the Dodgers, he isplaying with the roster that is
(26:02):
there today.
He does not want to have anycontrol over who plays around
him, and I think that's wherethey're going to get creative
and innovative is giving himmore control over the entire
envelope product.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
So that's an interesting point, because
you've seen Aaron Rodgers fairlypublicly say he left the
Packers because he didn't haveenough control over decisions,
russell Wilson leaving theSeahawks because he wants more
control over decisions.
So that's an interestingconcept.
As far as do we start to seemore of a shift in all the
(26:36):
leagues with hey, I think,control right, so let's call it
voting shares.
Voting shares are equally asimportant as value.
So do you see a world in whichOtani takes, let's say, the
Dodgers offer him 50 million ayear, but the Angels offer him
(26:58):
45 and you get to pick yourfriends?
Does that make a difference?
Do you think?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
The Dodgers have a perfect form for him.
I don't think it would, becausethe Dodgers, yeah.
I think if Otani were to pick ateam around him, it would
probably be the Dodgers, justbecause they have Freeman and
Mookie Betts and I mean theyhave three MVP caliber players
already there.
If it wasn't the Dodgers nowgood they are I think you could
see someone like the Mets or theAngels even come back and say I
(27:25):
think he has some.
I don't think he's ever had a500 season with the Angels, so
he may just want a new uniform.
But if we take your example andsay, okay, well, what about the
Padres?
The Padres said we'll give youa little less money, but you
could pick the team around you,I think that becomes very
tempting for him.
I think and I think we're goingto see that I think that's going
to ultimately become an issuelong term, because when you have
(27:48):
a player like that, then theplayer becomes more important
oftentimes than the coach, right?
I mean I can't imagine and I'mgoing to keep going back to Ron
because he's probably I mean,he's a generational talent,
maybe the best player to everplay in the NBA, depending on
what age you are If LeBron hadan issue with the coach.
(28:09):
Lebron isn't leaving the teamright.
If you're a coach in the NBAand you want to run a set play,
for somebody to take a threepoint shot from the corner and
LeBron wants to pick and rollwhere he finishes at the basket,
guess which play you're runningright, so that when you give
that up, you're going to startcausing conflict and the coach
(28:30):
is going to be largely justmanaging that superstar, not
only getting the team aroundthem, but running the team how
the superstar wants.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
Yeah, and I think to your point.
I don't know no disrespect tohim as a coach, but I don't
think Tyron Lew was a coachworthy of coaching LeBron.
I think Tyron Lew had a goodrelationship with LeBron and he
more or less stated a LeBron'sway oh, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
Like you same.
I mean, I think Tom Brady andBill Belichick were wonders
together, but I don't think BillBelichick has any rings.
Without time, I'm going to haveall of Boston send me a letter
for this.
But Bill Belichick doesn't havea lot of those rings without
Tom Brady sitting there beingable to make the passes Tom
Brady made.
And Tom Brady doesn't havethose rings if he doesn't take
(29:18):
the page, the paycheck, to putthe team around them.
Right, you replace Tom Bradywith Aaron Rodgers.
Over that same career.
They don't have the same amountof rings.
That's just the truth, becausethe money's going to Aaron
Rodgers and not the team.
So you are looking for, whenyou look at Otati, he may want
that, but he may also just wantto set back and make money.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, and, by the way , if anyone wants to write a
crystal letter, the address is1600 Pennsylvania Avenue,
Northwest Washington DC, 20500.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Hashtag in person.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Yeah, I think, and I agree, I think there is a degree
of separation between decisionmaking, the right coach, all
that kind of stuff.
But I think when it comes downto a decision like Shohei Otani,
I think the entire league,whenever those moves are made
right, I'm taking my talents toMiami I think when those things
(30:14):
happen, I think the entireleague stops and takes a breath,
and so that's.
I guess that's the nextquestion.
So let's say he, let's say thePadres their other hat in, and
let's say they put a lot ofmoney hey, here's a bunch of
money and you could pick yourfriends.
What does that mean for therest of the free agents?
So they're all just sittingthere waiting for him to sign,
or how does that work?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
Yeah.
So there are going to bedifferent classes of free agents
.
So obviously you know you'regoing to have teams with just a
buttload of money sitting aroundwho are like, hey, we want to
all sign a ton, right, so you'regoing to have the second
through the 10th best player inthe league, want that money and
know these teams are going tospend, but they're not going to
(30:55):
spend until Otani find wherehe's going to go.
The Yankees aren't going tosign someone if they think
they're still in on thesweepstakes, right, they're at
least going to get told no,because they know all these
players are going to sit around.
Then you're going to have thenext tier of player and you're
going to have the next tier ofteams that are going to start
buying relatively quickly.
(31:15):
They're like, hey, we don'tknow that Otani's signing, but
we know he's not signing with us, so let's go ahead and get a
decent shortstop and not have tofight the Yankees for him.
So the question then becomegive me clearly having a tier
one, players who are Otani andthe other guys that are coming
up for you to see, you have thetier two, like vets that aren't
going to sign anything remotelyclose to what he's getting
(31:37):
probably getting main contractsthey're going to sign relatively
quickly.
It's kind of that gray area ofpeople between the main
contracts and the max contractswhen they want to start falling.
But yeah, you're top five,you're top 10 free agents.
They're not going to landanywhere until Otani makes his
decision, because the top fiveor 10 teams are going to have
their Otani money that theydon't want to spend until he
(32:00):
falls.
Because imagine you're, youknow the Cincinnati Reds and you
think you have an outside shoton him, and then all of a sudden
you sign three players and thenhe calls you and goes hey, I
would have played for you hadyou just waited an extra day.
Then you lost the best playerof all time because you were
impatient.
Speaker 1 (32:19):
How new is the idea of I guess the quote unquote
super team, right?
So in the NBA the super teamthing you have very publicly
people like Magic Johnson andCharles Barkley going out there
saying that that back in theirday there was no super team.
You didn't get to just playwith your best friends, you had
to scrap and fight with what youhad, whatever.
And then you've got playerslike LeBron and Carmelo, who you
(32:42):
know built super teams wheneverthey wanted to, or Kevin Durant
, for that matter.
The NFL is about the badge morethan it is about the player,
and so it's a little harder tobuild the super team.
But you've still seen a lot ofthat happening with holdouts and
people that are holding out forcontracts or people who will
quote unquote retire right,gronk, famously retired from,
(33:02):
didn't retire.
He threatened to retire becausethey were going to trade him to
the Lions.
And you've got these playersthat either retire or sit around
and wait or kind of dancearound their contract situations
and try and go play withsomeone like Tom Brady.
And in the NFL you can't getthat elite level talent that way
as much, because the contractsare fairly restrictive.
Both you know the teams stillhave a lot of power of who they
(33:23):
keep, but the players can stillkind of, you know, leave you on
bell, can just say I'm not goingto play this year and you can,
you know, can find me whateveryou want.
It didn't work out so good forhim, but you have this new trend
where players are doing a lotmore holdouts, a lot more faking
of injuries, a lot more tryingto push back and fight that
(33:44):
system the way it is how.
I don't follow the MLB veryclosely at all.
I think most of what I get fromthe MLB I learned from you.
So how new is the super teamwith the MLB?
Is that something that'schanging across all of sports,
or is that something that theMLB has been doing for a long
time?
Speaker 2 (34:01):
Yeah, so you sort of have paid the most for their
roster for a long time.
Astros are up there, dodgersare up there.
They historically just pay more.
The NBA is easier to build thesuper team and I think that's
something that LeBron figuredout.
Lebron and Paul figured outrelative I mean even Garnett and
Allen and Pierce before themkind of figured out.
Nba have fewer players that areimportant at any one time, so
(34:24):
you can have three massiveplayers at two high schoolers
out there and likely win achampionship.
Nfl MLB is a little bit harderbecause every player is more
valuable.
So, like, your weakest link inthe NBA matters less than your
weakest link on an NFL team.
If you have a superstar teamand you put me out there at
(34:45):
cornerback, we're still givingup a lot of touchdowns on the
NFL team, right, because theycan just target me.
So you, the super team andother sports is harder to create
with them.
The NBA In NBA you get outthere with two or three, three
friends and you just make yoursuper team take a little less
money.
Nfl MLB you need NHL, you needthe whole team.
(35:07):
You need the depth there aswell.
So unless you just want to payor unless somebody is going to
take a lower contract.
It's just harder to do and Idon't know the concept isn't
there.
I don't know people don't wantto do it, but the only way to
get a lot of these players onone team because it's easy.
Like so, if you have threefriends like Bosch, wade and
(35:28):
LeBron, they can get in a roomand say, okay, we're all gonna
make 10% less and we're in mychain chipper To get 22 NFL
players in a room to all go.
Okay, we're all equallyvaluable here and we will all
take the exact same amount ofmoney you got for this super
team.
And what is a championship oran MLB team where you need 10
people to get in the same roomand do that?
I think that's relativelyimpotant.
(35:50):
Even you know you can get 22NFL players to agree on the same
plate.
I mean, they're arguing abouthuddle every every time they can
, right, so you just it's justeasier than the NBA because you
need Consensus for so many fewerpeople.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
That's fair and I think I think the NFL and the
MLB Also have a lot more depth.
I think in the NBA, once youget to your bench I mean, the
drop-off from LeBron to yourthird guy on the bench is
Incredible.
And the NFL you never know thatthere's a Brock Purdy Just
sitting back there at your thirdstring quarterback that turns
(36:26):
into Brock Purdy, right, and younever know when you're gonna
find Tom Brady in the sixthround of the NFL draft.
And also for those, thoseadd-in players, someone like
Peyton Manning, tom Brady, aaronRodgers can take a wide
receiver who Would probably bewide receiver three on any other
team and turn them into widereceiver one because they're
that good, and I guess that's.
(36:47):
The next question is howapplicable is that to the MLB?
Is Shiohei Otani that good thathe can just make everyone
around him that much better?
Or is that kind of the reasonthey, the angels, haven't won a
whole lot?
Because it's not that important?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
you can't, because I mean no matter who you are, I
mean if you're a Ponnie, even ifyou're a tiny, if you're
getting on base a out 10 times,you're up on plate right.
If I'm batting behind you, Ican't move you forward.
So Otani a great stat to lookat for him, or any baseball
player is is home runs versusRBI.
So how many times do you hitthe ball over the fence and
everybody who's who's on thebases cross home Versus RBI's?
(37:23):
How many times do you hit theball and people cross home?
So if you get a home run, youby definition, get one RBI
because you cross home right inIn 2023, otani had 44 home runs,
but 95 were up to batting in.
So in all the times he hit, 95people crossed home, and we know
44 of those are him hittinghimself across home.
So he's had 51 Times thatsomeone else has crossed home
(37:49):
because he hit the ball rightNow let's look at some.
Another great player this yearis about the same amount, but
has better players around him inRonald Acuna jr For the for the
Braves.
He has 37 home runs.
So he has Seven less home runson the season right now than
Otani does, but his runs battedin are 98.
(38:10):
So he's 98 runs batted into.
Otani's 95 off, 44 off, lesshome runs.
So he is getting more.
People are in front of himgetting on Like no matter how
good I am as a baseball player,I Cannot Put you on base.
There is nothing I can do to getyou on base.
(38:32):
No matter how good I am, right,lebron James can find me in the
corner and pass me the ball andat least give me an open
three-point shot to increase thestats that I get on.
In the NFL, certainquarterbacks can just throw the
ball into a perfect positionthat let me have a higher chance
of of catching the ball.
In Baseball you are up thereagainst the pitcher.
(38:55):
Now if somebody's on base there, you could argue there are some
things a runner on base Makeshit hitters have a better
opportunity, and that's true,but largely the batter still has
to hit the ball.
There's an outside of likemaybe pointers I can give you in
the dugout.
You know this guy likes topitch this way, so look for this
pitch here.
(39:15):
I Can't make you a better hitter, no matter what Otani said to
me.
I am not going up today andhitting a 90 mile per hour
fastball.
There's nothing I can do, whileLeBron James could draw a
double team and put me into athree-point spot when I'm taking
an open three-pointer.
If LeBron James on my team andwe were playing basketball
(39:37):
together, I may get three pointsjust because you would have to
guard LeBron, especially in thisprime.
So much that left me with anopportunity to do more damage in
baseball Yours.
No matter how good you are, youstill have the other people
around.
You have to get on base andOtani can't make that happen.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
But it sounds to me and correct me if I'm wrong on
this that one of the reasonsthat the MLB honors these really
long contracts and the NFL onlygives those contracts to
Patrick Mahomes and Joe Burrowand Tom Brady, the only reason
that those players get these10-year deals, is because in the
(40:19):
NFL I'm looking at, it may takeme two years to build a Super
Bowl winning team or one.
If I decide to just throw thewhole, you know, throw all the
house money at everybody.
It takes me no time at all tobe to build a winning team.
But I need that central cogbecause that player is so
valuable to the game.
I mean, you're talking about thecutoff between Alex Smith, who
(40:41):
as a human being is one of myfavorite people of all time, but
as a quarterback he's, he'sgood, he's a really good
quarterback.
Patrick Mahomes to Alex Smithis as a dramatic jump and so I
need that one piece in thatpuzzle and I need him for 10
years.
And the MLB yeah, kind ofanybody who's even remotely very
, very good as an all-star ofany caliber whatsoever.
(41:03):
I need him from for 10 yearsbecause it might take me that
long to build the winning team,which is probably why it sounds
like a Ohtani, so frustrated andthey have a timeline right like
you're not getting, you're notbecoming a better hitter when
you're 35 years old.
Speaker 2 (41:17):
So they they leverage those later years on that
contract to bring that person in.
Because you can't pay someone200 million dollars, you're, the
money's just not there.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
So you let them almost have a retirement gig on
your, on your team, whilethey're just sitting in the
dugout and I think I think partof the 10-year contract thing
I'm thinking is the Braves too,where they're signing these guys
you know, these young guys whoare on their first deals to
longer contracts to get themoverall contracts cheaper, but
to keep those pieces in in playuntil they can build the right
(41:46):
team.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
Yeah, and, and the Braves are famous again Signing
a player who's 21 to aneight-year contract, so that
they one of the pitches is hey,when you turn 28, you still have
a max deal in front of you ifyou want to take it with us or
anyone else.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
I love that.
So I guess I guess only timewill tell what happens to Ohtani
deal and, if there's, ifthere's anything special that
happens with it.
But I think this has been a areally interesting conversation.
We might come back to contractslater, once the once the deal
gets signed, and talk about ifsomething did happen and maybe
compare that to people likePatrick Mahon is in Lionel Messi
and Do a compare and contrastof of the different deals and
(42:26):
the different things that areoffered to see who is who's in
the forefront of innovation.
What, what league is is tryingthe hardest to bring in, to
bring in the players in the mostinteresting way.
I have been your host, johnmode.
Remember no problem is too bigor too small to solve.
Innovation is born out ofnecessity and curiosity.
We are all about pushing thoseordinary limits and thank you so
(42:49):
much for joining us.
Please don't forget tosubscribe and remember you are
never stuck.
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