October 1, 2018 • 25 mins
Struggling with clunky dialogue? Many writers lean too heavily on spoken words, missing a powerful technique that can elevate their storytelling. In this episode, discover a game-changing approach to writing dialogue that most authors never consider.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to the Inside Creative Writing podcast.
The weekly discussion of craft and technique for
writers of fiction and creative nonfiction.
And now here's your host, writer and educator,
Brad Reid.
Episode 36. Writing great dialogue can be one
of the biggest challenges a writer faces. Today,
we explore a technique that most writers overlook,
(00:23):
and it's something you probably never thought to
try.
And welcome back to the Inside Creative Writing
podcast. My name is Brad Reed, and I
wanna thank you for choosing to spend part
of your day with me today
talking about writing.
I actually have very mixed emotions as I
sit down at the microphone today. And before
(00:44):
we get into today's topic, I wanna kinda
talk through these emotions with you just a
bit. Now the show has been back on
now for almost six months
and I feel like it's time to do
a little bit of introspection,
related to how things are going so far.
Now, I'll admit that I had
pretty lofty,
expectations
after the success of the show the first
(01:05):
time around
back in 02/2014,
'2 thousand '15.
Within a matter of just a few months
back then, we had tens of thousands
of people downloading the show every week. It
was absolutely
amazing.
And I I kind of kicked myself for
shelving it back then because we had gotten
off to such a great start. Although, when
(01:26):
I look back, I didn't have a lot
of choice going back to finish my graduate
work and, starting a new career was just
too much.
From what I can tell, the numbers back
then would have put the show easily in
the top five to 10%
of all podcasts
online back then, which is, just amazing. It
was kind of a thrill ride. Well, the
(01:46):
world is a very different place now and
as we know, the Internet is flooded with
outstanding
podcasts on every imaginable
topic including writing, of course. Now, when we
first started out, we were one of only
a tiny handful
of podcasts that were exploring the craft of
writing.
Not how to get published or build a
(02:07):
following or get an agent, but the nuts
and the bolts of putting
words on the page.
Well, now we're among a
or one among a myriad
of great options.
And it stands to reason that our listenership
would be way, way down from those early
days and that's certainly been the case. Now,
don't get me wrong. I appreciate those of
(02:28):
you who are listening to the show and
sharing it with your writer friends so,
so much.
But at some point, I have to make
the decision,
about whether it's simply taking too much time
away from my own writing time
to justify the time and the resources that
it takes to write it and produce it
and distribute it. Now, I haven't made a
(02:50):
final decision on any of this yet. Not
by a long shot. But, I feel like
this decision has to be, has to come
pretty soon. I mean, on one hand,
I kind of feel like we just need
to keep plugging away and build that listenership
over time.
But, I also have to think about how
much slower my own writing projects and some
of the other things I'm working on are
(03:10):
coming along because of the time
and the energy that I give to this
podcast. So here's essentially, I guess, what I'm
trying to say.
There is a chance, we'll be wrapping things
up here in the next few weeks. And
honestly, there's an equal chance that we won't.
I'm just kind of in that soul searching
stage. But even if we do, even if
we do wrap it up, even if the
(03:31):
decision is made that the writing has to
take priority,
I'm still a teacher at heart. Right? And
I'm not going to go away from that.
I've tried before and there's no way I
cannot be,
teaching. It's just the way I'm wired.
And that's why I'm launching a weekly newsletter,
featuring a lot of the same resources that
you've grown to appreciate from the podcast.
(03:52):
So it's either going to end up being
a kind of companion piece to the podcast
or, I hate to say it, but it
might eventually become a replacement
for the podcast. So part of the reason
I'm talking to you about this today is
that I'd like to invite you to actually
sign up for that newsletter
so that I don't lose touch with you
if, the podcast,
(04:13):
comes to an end. We're gonna be packing
it full of many writing lessons,
great resources, great links for writers,
motivation for those tough writing days, and even
some news about my own works in progress
and kind of what I'm learning from what
I'm reading. You know what? I might actually
I'm thinking about even doing an audio version
(04:33):
of that newsletter and releasing it as a
kind of mini
podcast. So I don't think we're going completely
away from audio. We're just gonna have to
see. So anyway, if you're interested in checking
out that newsletter, I call it the Five
Big Things newsletter. You can get some information
on that by heading over to bradreedwrites.com.
You'll see a link there that says newsletter
(04:53):
and you can sign up for that and
get a little more information
about it. So
that's where I'm at. I just wanna thank
you again so much for being a listener
and I hate that I kind of phrase
that as, you know, there weren't enough people
or there aren't enough people out there to
justify it because,
you know, I I still have hundreds of
listeners right now, which is outstanding, and I
love
being able to connect with you in this
(05:15):
way. But eventually,
you know, I kinda have to look at
the dollars and the cents and the time
of it. And if we don't reach a
certain level,
then, you know, it's kinda the writing on
the wall that I need to be prioritizing
things a little bit differently.
I truly love
doing this podcast and interacting with you guys
in this way. You know, at the end
of the day, we all we all just
get that twenty four hours a day and,
(05:37):
sometimes something has to give. So, alright, enough
of that drama. Like I said, I have
not made a decision about that yet, but
I wanted to let you know as loyal
listeners,
that that's kind of my thought process where
I'm at.
So, enough with all that. Let's go ahead
and get into today's topic and, let's get
better at writing dialogue.
(06:06):
I think the element of writing that gives
me the most trouble is dialogue.
And I'm actually not sure why.
From the outside looking in, it feels like
dialogue should be the easy part. I mean,
I've been talking and listening and hearing people
talk for nearly five decades now. Dialogue should
(06:27):
be second nature to me. But when I
sit down to write it, it still often
comes out clunky,
unrealistic.
It comes out too forced.
And I get what I should be doing
with dialogue. Right? I get subtext. I get
all of that stuff. And I've learned ways
to go back and revise and rewrite and
and rework dialogue until it's better, but I
(06:48):
never really get to the point that I
feel like it's good or even great.
So a recent quick write exercise I did
with my creative writing class
began to change
my approach to writing dialogue though. It actually
came from a book called Write Now, edited
by Sherry Ellis. It's the same book that
I mentioned last week. And I'll go ahead
(07:10):
and put a link to that book in
the show notes if you're interested in picking
up a copy.
In the book, there's a bunch of different
writing prompts and exercises from a bunch of
different writers.
And the one that caught my attention was
written by Sands Hall,
author of the novel Catching Heaven and a
book on writing called Tools of the Writer's
Craft.
And Sands introduces an exercise called
(07:31):
Dialogue Without Words.
So the challenge or the exercise is basically
this.
Write a scene of conflict
between at least two characters
with absolutely
no dialogue whatsoever.
So the characters never breathe a word to
each other.
Instead, what you have to do is figure
(07:52):
out ways to show the conflict
through the setting,
through the mise en scene, through the body
language and actions
of the characters.
You know, people say that about 90% of
what we communicate comes through body language, not
in the words that we speak. And this
exercise
is your opportunity
(08:13):
to learn to bring that 90 that other
90% into play.
So, Sans recommends doing a little bit of
pre planning.
When you do a
dialogueless scene like this or a dialogueless write.
So what you wanna do is figure out
beforehand what the conflict is going to be.
Maybe it's,
marital spat over who's gonna cook dinner for
(08:34):
a night or maybe in the workplace, you
have a trainer that's frustrated with the ineptitude
of their trainee as a couple of examples.
And you wanna choose a setting
that sets up that conflict.
Choose that very intentionally.
Then simply let the characters begin to move.
Right? Begin to make facial expressions, to use
gestures,
(08:55):
and to interact with the things in the
setting
that
show their emotional state. That begin to hint
at their desires, what they want in the
scene.
Now the goal of this is not necessarily
to write
so specifically that your reader could say, oh,
she's upset because she thinks her husband is
cheating on her with his secretary. Right? Although
(09:16):
you probably want to have that level of
specificity in your mind as you're writing it.
It'll help you find those details.
Instead, the goal is that
your reader through the scene learns and intuit
something
about these characters
through
their body language, through the setting, through their
interactions,
through anything other than dialogue.
(09:37):
So without dialogue, your readers'
other ways of creating meaning,
they go into overdrive. They become very, very
sensitive. It's almost like, you know, when you
have a blindfold on for a certain amount
of time, your other senses become
more,
sensitive. We're kind of doing the same thing
here. By removing the dialogue, we're causing our
reader to begin to read
(09:59):
more deeply
into every nuance. Every movement
to discover what's going on in that scene.
And I think you'll be surprised
at how much you can communicate
to your reader and how much your characters
can communicate with each other
without using any words at all. This is
really the essence of what we call show
(10:21):
don't tell.
Right? You're showing
what the characters aren't speaking
or literally telling each other. It's a powerful
technique that will bring your readers right into
your story and get them interacting with it
to figure out what's going on.
So, one way I use this in my
own writing is that I'll first try to
(10:43):
write a scene
without any dialogue at all. So, I'm coming
up on my next scene to write and
I know that I'm gonna have characters talking
and having conflicts.
But my first draft or my first attempt
is to try to write it without anybody
speaking a word.
And I'm actually surprised how often the scene
works out pretty well.
(11:03):
But still, once I've done the best I
can without any dialogue at all, then I
go back in and I start dropping in
dialogue as little as I possibly can.
Just those little moments where I really truly
need a character to speak something.
And doing it this way
makes the impact and power
of what the characters do say that much
(11:25):
stronger.
You know, it's kind of like a word,
suddenly yelled out in a quiet library. Right?
Everybody's gonna notice and pay attention to it
because it's been so quiet up until that
point. That's kind of what we're accomplishing with
this technique is that people tend to be
quiet in this kind of writing and we're
reading into that dialogue. So when they do
speak,
(11:45):
that word or that sentence
resounds with a lot more impact.
The other thing that I love, love, love
about this technique
is that you can start playing with how
people lie to each other. How people deceive
each other.
So if you've created a scene where there
is,
either no dialogue or very little dialogue,
(12:09):
but the settings, the actions, the body language
are clearly showing,
you know, something like a husband who
despises his wife,
you could then have that husband
finally walk up and whisper into her ear,
I love you.
And your reader will want to punch that
guy right in the face. Right? Because now
(12:29):
we know he's lying.
Because he's been telling her in absolutely
every other way that he actually despises her.
Now we see that that I love you
is just a manipulation.
Because it stands against all the rest of
the evidence,
for the way that the man is communicating
without words.
(12:51):
Now that we have an interesting character, right?
Now we have an interesting character with ulterior
motives. And your reader
gets to feel like a genius because they
feel like they've figured it out, right? They've
read all the clues and they're the ones
that figured out, oh, wait a second. This
guy's lying at this point. It's a great
way to get your reader involved in your
(13:11):
story, to get them solving what we like
to call those little mysteries that you've built
in there for them.
So if you're really interested in this technique,
something you might wanna do is actually go
back and watch some old silent films and
see
how they communicate emotion. How they communicate
desire and intention
(13:32):
without dialogue.
I mean, sure, there's that occasional,
kind of dialogue card that pops up to
deliver a line of dialogue. But these filmmakers
were masters of accomplishing as much as possible
without relying on dialogue.
So
really live in the details
as you watch these films.
(13:52):
In fact, maybe even pause them every once
in a while and explore everything that's going
on in that scene. The way the lighting
is handled. The way
the camera is angled.
The body positioning of the characters. The expressions
on their face. The props and the tools
in their hands and the things in the
background. We're noticing it all because it all
(14:14):
plays a role in creating
that wordless conflict.
And,
all of those things are just accessible to
us to use as prose writers
as they are to filmmakers. And now that
I think about it, in addition to old
silent films,
another, place that's a master of this is,
Pixar. Right? Especially in their little short films
(14:36):
that they have
prior to their,
their full on films. In fact, I was
showing one of my class today. It's called
Paperman.
Right? Maybe you've seen it, maybe you haven't.
But, completely silent. Right? Other I mean, there's
music. But there's no not a word spoken.
And yet it is packed, packed, packed
with emotion
and with conflict and with story. So take
(14:59):
some time to study those scenes,
those short films
that don't use any dialogue and learn that
trick, that skill of writing,
what we're calling dialogue less dialogue, right? Because
there's communication happening.
It's just not happening in the traditional way
that we do it.
So the more I play with this technique,
the more I realize how much I use
(15:21):
dialogue as a crutch
instead of a tool.
So if you think about it, it's much
easier to have a character just come right
out and say, I'm angry with you, Bill,
than it is to spend the time as
a writer, the brainpower as a writer to
pause and create the perfect setting, to create
(15:41):
the perfect background and the background elements and
describe the tilt of an eyebrow or the
twist of a mouth that maybe communicates that
same emotion
underneath the surface.
But that kind of work is so worth
the effort.
Your readers are masters
of reading these little clues because it's how
(16:02):
we interact with the real world every single
day.
In fact, the only thing we've got more
experience in than hearing and constructing language is
probably
reading into the actions and the intentions of
others.
I mean, if you think about it, before
we ever learned the meaning of the word
no,
we were almost certainly able to recognize
(16:23):
the subtle change of posture, the furrowing of
a brow in a parent's face that was
telling us no long before we heard the
word.
So this kind of writing, this technique
gets back to that basic form of reading
and understanding the world. It's almost primeval, I
think. And in that way, really, really powerful.
(16:45):
So there's your tip for writing better dialogue,
and the tip is write far,
far less dialogue.
Now I can hear you now. Right? You're
saying, but I have a character who's defined
by how talkative he or she is. Or,
but I'm writing a phone conversation. Right? Or,
I'm writing a court scene where I have
lawyers that are arguing. Now, of course, there
(17:05):
are always exceptions.
And those exceptions are always opportunities
to do something intentional
for even more impact. So if you think
about it, how much more would your chatty
Cathy character stand out
if there was dramatically less dialogue
from all your other characters in the story?
(17:26):
Right? Much more powerful now. How much more
would we understand the subtext
of a phone conversation
if we could see one party, you know,
kind of twisting a phone cord
nervously in their fingers as they talked? And
man, did I just did I just date
myself or what? How long has it been
since anybody twisted their fingers in a phone
(17:46):
cord? Anyway, hopefully you still get what I
what I mean by that.
So there's an old adage that goes something
like this.
Watch what people do,
not what they say.
People can lie and deceive and embellish and
withhold
with their language, but what they actually do
is who they really are and what they
(18:06):
really mean. That's true in our writing
just as much as it's true in the
world around us.
Today's wise word comes to us from writing
guru and author of KraftBooks'
story and dialogue,
Robert McKee.
(18:26):
Now it's tangentially
related to today's topic, but we'll explore that
in a second. First, here's McKee and what
he has to say among many things on
storytelling.
If the story you're telling
is the story you're telling,
you're in deep shit,
says Robert McKee. I'm gonna read that once
more and I apologize for the swear word.
If the story you're telling
(18:48):
is the story you're telling,
you're in deep shit.
Now I think this is a truism about
writing that is often overlooked.
We think that if we have a great
premise, right, or a great story world or
an interesting
unique character,
that this that's enough for the story to
kind of take care of itself, to work.
(19:10):
That that'll be enough to carry it through.
But stories are always
about something deeper than the plot. Some it's
they're about some expression of how to live
in the world, or how to overcome our
obstacles or how to see the world in
a new way.
Now, we've discussed this in other episodes,
but this is basically what's happening on a
(19:33):
minuscule or microscopic level in our dialogue, or
at least it's what should be happening in
our dialogue.
So we might actually modify McKee's statement here
by saying, if the dialogue your character is
speaking is really what they are saying,
you're in deep shit. Right? So dialogue
is almost always a kind of mask
(19:55):
for what the character is really trying to
say.
It's a kind of weapon. You can think
of it as a weapon that the character
uses to try to get what they want
from the person that they are talking to.
Even if it's not,
you know, an obviously,
a situation that is full of obvious conflict,
they're still using dialogue to get what they
(20:16):
want.
So, from McKee, these are wise words indeed.
Right now and McKee is a bit of
a controversial figure in the world of writing
gurus,
but I think there's value in every book
on craft that is written.
Because it's all about taking what works for
you and just kind of leaving the rest
behind. Maybe you're not ready for it yet.
(20:36):
Maybe later in your life, that piece of
advice will be more relevant, but for now
it's not. Right? So you set that aside
and just take what is valuable to you
at the time and move forward.
If you haven't checked out any of McKee's
work, I really, really suggest that you do.
I know it's made a huge impact on
my writing and it likely will on yours
as well.
(21:00):
So this is the part of the show
where I usually share a writing challenge for
the week ahead. But I'm going to forego
that this week since the show itself,
was basically,
a writing challenge. Right? To to try to
write scenes with as little dialogue as possible.
And I hope you'll try that this week.
Try to write an entire scene
without dialogue, especially a scene of conflict.
(21:23):
So instead with this weekly challenge segment, I'd
like to actually introduce something that I'm gonna
be sharing in the newsletter that I talked
about at the top of the show, and
I'm calling it the big read.
And it's a chance for me to share
what I'm reading now and how
what I'm reading is informing my own writing.
So right now I'm reading a book called
(21:44):
A 27
by Aron Ralston.
If you've read this or heard about it,
you know that this is a pretty rough
story. Right? True story of the guy who
gets trapped by the boulder,
and has to sever his own arm to
escape and to live. So now I know
I'm a little slow getting around to actually
reading this book. I mean, it was a
bestseller in 02/2010.
(22:06):
But, honestly, I've been
a little scared
of this book. So,
I'm usually into stories of survival and things
like that,
but I just wasn't sure I could handle
reading about somebody cutting off their own arm.
But I knew it would be a great
model for what I'm writing right now for
my current work in progress. So I finally
bit the bullet, and I dove in. Now
(22:27):
I'm only about a quarter of the way,
through the book as of today, but I
already feel like I'm getting some insights
in craft
from this book. And here's the insight I
wanted to share with you today.
So this book seems to be a good
model for
how to incorporate backstory
into what could
be a relatively dull experience overall. Now you're
(22:49):
thinking, wait a second, Brad. A dull experience.
He severs his arm. Right? But when you
think about it, that's a very tiny part
of this book, and the rest of the
book is him basically
stuck. Right? Nobody else is around. He's stuck.
So how else does a writer sustain over
400 pages of basically,
oh, shit. I'm stuck under this rock
(23:09):
without jumping into backstory? So he's got to
bring a lot of backstory into the story
to to fill it out.
And Ralston here seems to be using
an every other chapter technique to break up
the story. So one chapter will be in
real time. Right? He's stuck and he's trying
to get out. He's trying to extricate himself.
And that seems to be almost always followed
(23:31):
by a chapter or a section
that goes back and kinda builds up his
outdoorsman
cred and his backstory.
And I'm actually not sure I'm crazy
about the technique because I already feel that
pull
to kind of just skip the backstory chapters
and get to the good stuff. Right? Now
I'm a little troubled that I just called,
(23:52):
you know, a person cutting off their own
arm the good stuff.
Yikes. But, I think you know what I
mean. The action stuff. The stuff that, is
the promise of the premise of the book.
And as I read this, I wonder if
it might have worked better
if it was structured a little more like
Cheryl Strayed's Wild.
And what she does in that book is
she
(24:12):
is telling the story of her,
you know, almost cross country trek along the
Pacific Crest Trail. So ultimately, it's the same
kind of story. Right? Somebody who's primarily alone
going, through this struggle.
But what she does is she falls in
and out of backstory
as the experiences that she's having
naturally bring them to mind. So it seems
(24:34):
like a more natural way,
to the way that humans actually process experiences.
And it's not quite as jarring to the
reader, I think. So anyway, I'd love to
hear your take on that, especially if you've
read a hundred and twenty seven hours. You
can write to me at Brad Reed at
bradreedwrites
dot com. You can also hit me up
on Twitter.
My handle there is bradreedwrites.
(24:56):
So that's gonna wrap it up for us
this week. I hope that I haven't turned
you off with the news that we might
be wrapping up the podcast in the next
few weeks. Again, that decision hasn't been finalized,
but I do hope you'll subscribe to the
newsletter so we don't lose touch if that
is the case. Head on over to bradreedwrites.com,
and you'll see a link for that there.
So until next week, remember the best way
(25:19):
to improve your craft
is by writing.
That's what I'm off to go do, and
I hope that you're off to do the
same. Let's get some words on paper this
week, and we'll meet up again next week
for another episode of the Inside Creative Writing
podcast.
Thanks for listening to the Inside inside creative
writing podcast with your host, writer and educator,
(25:39):
Brad Reed.
We'll be back next week.
Welcome to the Inside Creative Writing podcast.
The weekly discussion of craft and technique for
writers of fiction and creative nonfiction.
And now here's your host, writer and educator,
Brad Reid.
Episode 36. Writing great dialogue can be one
of the biggest challenges a writer faces. Today,
we explore a technique that most writers overlook,
(00:23):
and it's something you probably never thought to
try.
And welcome back to the Inside Creative Writing
podcast. My name is Brad Reed, and I
wanna thank you for choosing to spend part
of your day with me today
talking about writing.
I actually have very mixed emotions as I
sit down at the microphone today. And before
(00:44):
we get into today's topic, I wanna kinda
talk through these emotions with you just a
bit. Now the show has been back on
now for almost six months
and I feel like it's time to do
a little bit of introspection,
related to how things are going so far.
Now, I'll admit that I had
pretty lofty,
expectations
after the success of the show the first
(01:05):
time around
back in 02/2014,
'2 thousand '15.
Within a matter of just a few months
back then, we had tens of thousands
of people downloading the show every week. It
was absolutely
amazing.
And I I kind of kicked myself for
shelving it back then because we had gotten
off to such a great start. Although, when
(01:26):
I look back, I didn't have a lot
of choice going back to finish my graduate
work and, starting a new career was just
too much.
From what I can tell, the numbers back
then would have put the show easily in
the top five to 10%
of all podcasts
online back then, which is, just amazing. It
was kind of a thrill ride. Well, the
(01:46):
world is a very different place now and
as we know, the Internet is flooded with
outstanding
podcasts on every imaginable
topic including writing, of course. Now, when we
first started out, we were one of only
a tiny handful
of podcasts that were exploring the craft of
writing.
Not how to get published or build a
(02:07):
following or get an agent, but the nuts
and the bolts of putting
words on the page.
Well, now we're among a
or one among a myriad
of great options.
And it stands to reason that our listenership
would be way, way down from those early
days and that's certainly been the case. Now,
don't get me wrong. I appreciate those of
(02:28):
you who are listening to the show and
sharing it with your writer friends so,
so much.
But at some point, I have to make
the decision,
about whether it's simply taking too much time
away from my own writing time
to justify the time and the resources that
it takes to write it and produce it
and distribute it. Now, I haven't made a
(02:50):
final decision on any of this yet. Not
by a long shot. But, I feel like
this decision has to be, has to come
pretty soon. I mean, on one hand,
I kind of feel like we just need
to keep plugging away and build that listenership
over time.
But, I also have to think about how
much slower my own writing projects and some
of the other things I'm working on are
(03:10):
coming along because of the time
and the energy that I give to this
podcast. So here's essentially, I guess, what I'm
trying to say.
There is a chance, we'll be wrapping things
up here in the next few weeks. And
honestly, there's an equal chance that we won't.
I'm just kind of in that soul searching
stage. But even if we do, even if
we do wrap it up, even if the
(03:31):
decision is made that the writing has to
take priority,
I'm still a teacher at heart. Right? And
I'm not going to go away from that.
I've tried before and there's no way I
cannot be,
teaching. It's just the way I'm wired.
And that's why I'm launching a weekly newsletter,
featuring a lot of the same resources that
you've grown to appreciate from the podcast.
(03:52):
So it's either going to end up being
a kind of companion piece to the podcast
or, I hate to say it, but it
might eventually become a replacement
for the podcast. So part of the reason
I'm talking to you about this today is
that I'd like to invite you to actually
sign up for that newsletter
so that I don't lose touch with you
if, the podcast,
(04:13):
comes to an end. We're gonna be packing
it full of many writing lessons,
great resources, great links for writers,
motivation for those tough writing days, and even
some news about my own works in progress
and kind of what I'm learning from what
I'm reading. You know what? I might actually
I'm thinking about even doing an audio version
(04:33):
of that newsletter and releasing it as a
kind of mini
podcast. So I don't think we're going completely
away from audio. We're just gonna have to
see. So anyway, if you're interested in checking
out that newsletter, I call it the Five
Big Things newsletter. You can get some information
on that by heading over to bradreedwrites.com.
You'll see a link there that says newsletter
(04:53):
and you can sign up for that and
get a little more information
about it. So
that's where I'm at. I just wanna thank
you again so much for being a listener
and I hate that I kind of phrase
that as, you know, there weren't enough people
or there aren't enough people out there to
justify it because,
you know, I I still have hundreds of
listeners right now, which is outstanding, and I
love
being able to connect with you in this
(05:15):
way. But eventually,
you know, I kinda have to look at
the dollars and the cents and the time
of it. And if we don't reach a
certain level,
then, you know, it's kinda the writing on
the wall that I need to be prioritizing
things a little bit differently.
I truly love
doing this podcast and interacting with you guys
in this way. You know, at the end
of the day, we all we all just
get that twenty four hours a day and,
(05:37):
sometimes something has to give. So, alright, enough
of that drama. Like I said, I have
not made a decision about that yet, but
I wanted to let you know as loyal
listeners,
that that's kind of my thought process where
I'm at.
So, enough with all that. Let's go ahead
and get into today's topic and, let's get
better at writing dialogue.
(06:06):
I think the element of writing that gives
me the most trouble is dialogue.
And I'm actually not sure why.
From the outside looking in, it feels like
dialogue should be the easy part. I mean,
I've been talking and listening and hearing people
talk for nearly five decades now. Dialogue should
(06:27):
be second nature to me. But when I
sit down to write it, it still often
comes out clunky,
unrealistic.
It comes out too forced.
And I get what I should be doing
with dialogue. Right? I get subtext. I get
all of that stuff. And I've learned ways
to go back and revise and rewrite and
and rework dialogue until it's better, but I
(06:48):
never really get to the point that I
feel like it's good or even great.
So a recent quick write exercise I did
with my creative writing class
began to change
my approach to writing dialogue though. It actually
came from a book called Write Now, edited
by Sherry Ellis. It's the same book that
I mentioned last week. And I'll go ahead
(07:10):
and put a link to that book in
the show notes if you're interested in picking
up a copy.
In the book, there's a bunch of different
writing prompts and exercises from a bunch of
different writers.
And the one that caught my attention was
written by Sands Hall,
author of the novel Catching Heaven and a
book on writing called Tools of the Writer's
Craft.
And Sands introduces an exercise called
(07:31):
Dialogue Without Words.
So the challenge or the exercise is basically
this.
Write a scene of conflict
between at least two characters
with absolutely
no dialogue whatsoever.
So the characters never breathe a word to
each other.
Instead, what you have to do is figure
(07:52):
out ways to show the conflict
through the setting,
through the mise en scene, through the body
language and actions
of the characters.
You know, people say that about 90% of
what we communicate comes through body language, not
in the words that we speak. And this
exercise
is your opportunity
(08:13):
to learn to bring that 90 that other
90% into play.
So, Sans recommends doing a little bit of
pre planning.
When you do a
dialogueless scene like this or a dialogueless write.
So what you wanna do is figure out
beforehand what the conflict is going to be.
Maybe it's,
marital spat over who's gonna cook dinner for
(08:34):
a night or maybe in the workplace, you
have a trainer that's frustrated with the ineptitude
of their trainee as a couple of examples.
And you wanna choose a setting
that sets up that conflict.
Choose that very intentionally.
Then simply let the characters begin to move.
Right? Begin to make facial expressions, to use
gestures,
(08:55):
and to interact with the things in the
setting
that
show their emotional state. That begin to hint
at their desires, what they want in the
scene.
Now the goal of this is not necessarily
to write
so specifically that your reader could say, oh,
she's upset because she thinks her husband is
cheating on her with his secretary. Right? Although
(09:16):
you probably want to have that level of
specificity in your mind as you're writing it.
It'll help you find those details.
Instead, the goal is that
your reader through the scene learns and intuit
something
about these characters
through
their body language, through the setting, through their
interactions,
through anything other than dialogue.
(09:37):
So without dialogue, your readers'
other ways of creating meaning,
they go into overdrive. They become very, very
sensitive. It's almost like, you know, when you
have a blindfold on for a certain amount
of time, your other senses become
more,
sensitive. We're kind of doing the same thing
here. By removing the dialogue, we're causing our
reader to begin to read
(09:59):
more deeply
into every nuance. Every movement
to discover what's going on in that scene.
And I think you'll be surprised
at how much you can communicate
to your reader and how much your characters
can communicate with each other
without using any words at all. This is
really the essence of what we call show
(10:21):
don't tell.
Right? You're showing
what the characters aren't speaking
or literally telling each other. It's a powerful
technique that will bring your readers right into
your story and get them interacting with it
to figure out what's going on.
So, one way I use this in my
own writing is that I'll first try to
(10:43):
write a scene
without any dialogue at all. So, I'm coming
up on my next scene to write and
I know that I'm gonna have characters talking
and having conflicts.
But my first draft or my first attempt
is to try to write it without anybody
speaking a word.
And I'm actually surprised how often the scene
works out pretty well.
(11:03):
But still, once I've done the best I
can without any dialogue at all, then I
go back in and I start dropping in
dialogue as little as I possibly can.
Just those little moments where I really truly
need a character to speak something.
And doing it this way
makes the impact and power
of what the characters do say that much
(11:25):
stronger.
You know, it's kind of like a word,
suddenly yelled out in a quiet library. Right?
Everybody's gonna notice and pay attention to it
because it's been so quiet up until that
point. That's kind of what we're accomplishing with
this technique is that people tend to be
quiet in this kind of writing and we're
reading into that dialogue. So when they do
speak,
(11:45):
that word or that sentence
resounds with a lot more impact.
The other thing that I love, love, love
about this technique
is that you can start playing with how
people lie to each other. How people deceive
each other.
So if you've created a scene where there
is,
either no dialogue or very little dialogue,
(12:09):
but the settings, the actions, the body language
are clearly showing,
you know, something like a husband who
despises his wife,
you could then have that husband
finally walk up and whisper into her ear,
I love you.
And your reader will want to punch that
guy right in the face. Right? Because now
(12:29):
we know he's lying.
Because he's been telling her in absolutely
every other way that he actually despises her.
Now we see that that I love you
is just a manipulation.
Because it stands against all the rest of
the evidence,
for the way that the man is communicating
without words.
(12:51):
Now that we have an interesting character, right?
Now we have an interesting character with ulterior
motives. And your reader
gets to feel like a genius because they
feel like they've figured it out, right? They've
read all the clues and they're the ones
that figured out, oh, wait a second. This
guy's lying at this point. It's a great
way to get your reader involved in your
(13:11):
story, to get them solving what we like
to call those little mysteries that you've built
in there for them.
So if you're really interested in this technique,
something you might wanna do is actually go
back and watch some old silent films and
see
how they communicate emotion. How they communicate
desire and intention
(13:32):
without dialogue.
I mean, sure, there's that occasional,
kind of dialogue card that pops up to
deliver a line of dialogue. But these filmmakers
were masters of accomplishing as much as possible
without relying on dialogue.
So
really live in the details
as you watch these films.
(13:52):
In fact, maybe even pause them every once
in a while and explore everything that's going
on in that scene. The way the lighting
is handled. The way
the camera is angled.
The body positioning of the characters. The expressions
on their face. The props and the tools
in their hands and the things in the
background. We're noticing it all because it all
(14:14):
plays a role in creating
that wordless conflict.
And,
all of those things are just accessible to
us to use as prose writers
as they are to filmmakers. And now that
I think about it, in addition to old
silent films,
another, place that's a master of this is,
Pixar. Right? Especially in their little short films
(14:36):
that they have
prior to their,
their full on films. In fact, I was
showing one of my class today. It's called
Paperman.
Right? Maybe you've seen it, maybe you haven't.
But, completely silent. Right? Other I mean, there's
music. But there's no not a word spoken.
And yet it is packed, packed, packed
with emotion
and with conflict and with story. So take
(14:59):
some time to study those scenes,
those short films
that don't use any dialogue and learn that
trick, that skill of writing,
what we're calling dialogue less dialogue, right? Because
there's communication happening.
It's just not happening in the traditional way
that we do it.
So the more I play with this technique,
the more I realize how much I use
(15:21):
dialogue as a crutch
instead of a tool.
So if you think about it, it's much
easier to have a character just come right
out and say, I'm angry with you, Bill,
than it is to spend the time as
a writer, the brainpower as a writer to
pause and create the perfect setting, to create
(15:41):
the perfect background and the background elements and
describe the tilt of an eyebrow or the
twist of a mouth that maybe communicates that
same emotion
underneath the surface.
But that kind of work is so worth
the effort.
Your readers are masters
of reading these little clues because it's how
(16:02):
we interact with the real world every single
day.
In fact, the only thing we've got more
experience in than hearing and constructing language is
probably
reading into the actions and the intentions of
others.
I mean, if you think about it, before
we ever learned the meaning of the word
no,
we were almost certainly able to recognize
(16:23):
the subtle change of posture, the furrowing of
a brow in a parent's face that was
telling us no long before we heard the
word.
So this kind of writing, this technique
gets back to that basic form of reading
and understanding the world. It's almost primeval, I
think. And in that way, really, really powerful.
(16:45):
So there's your tip for writing better dialogue,
and the tip is write far,
far less dialogue.
Now I can hear you now. Right? You're
saying, but I have a character who's defined
by how talkative he or she is. Or,
but I'm writing a phone conversation. Right? Or,
I'm writing a court scene where I have
lawyers that are arguing. Now, of course, there
(17:05):
are always exceptions.
And those exceptions are always opportunities
to do something intentional
for even more impact. So if you think
about it, how much more would your chatty
Cathy character stand out
if there was dramatically less dialogue
from all your other characters in the story?
(17:26):
Right? Much more powerful now. How much more
would we understand the subtext
of a phone conversation
if we could see one party, you know,
kind of twisting a phone cord
nervously in their fingers as they talked? And
man, did I just did I just date
myself or what? How long has it been
since anybody twisted their fingers in a phone
(17:46):
cord? Anyway, hopefully you still get what I
what I mean by that.
So there's an old adage that goes something
like this.
Watch what people do,
not what they say.
People can lie and deceive and embellish and
withhold
with their language, but what they actually do
is who they really are and what they
(18:06):
really mean. That's true in our writing
just as much as it's true in the
world around us.
Today's wise word comes to us from writing
guru and author of KraftBooks'
story and dialogue,
Robert McKee.
(18:26):
Now it's tangentially
related to today's topic, but we'll explore that
in a second. First, here's McKee and what
he has to say among many things on
storytelling.
If the story you're telling
is the story you're telling,
you're in deep shit,
says Robert McKee. I'm gonna read that once
more and I apologize for the swear word.
If the story you're telling
(18:48):
is the story you're telling,
you're in deep shit.
Now I think this is a truism about
writing that is often overlooked.
We think that if we have a great
premise, right, or a great story world or
an interesting
unique character,
that this that's enough for the story to
kind of take care of itself, to work.
(19:10):
That that'll be enough to carry it through.
But stories are always
about something deeper than the plot. Some it's
they're about some expression of how to live
in the world, or how to overcome our
obstacles or how to see the world in
a new way.
Now, we've discussed this in other episodes,
but this is basically what's happening on a
(19:33):
minuscule or microscopic level in our dialogue, or
at least it's what should be happening in
our dialogue.
So we might actually modify McKee's statement here
by saying, if the dialogue your character is
speaking is really what they are saying,
you're in deep shit. Right? So dialogue
is almost always a kind of mask
(19:55):
for what the character is really trying to
say.
It's a kind of weapon. You can think
of it as a weapon that the character
uses to try to get what they want
from the person that they are talking to.
Even if it's not,
you know, an obviously,
a situation that is full of obvious conflict,
they're still using dialogue to get what they
(20:16):
want.
So, from McKee, these are wise words indeed.
Right now and McKee is a bit of
a controversial figure in the world of writing
gurus,
but I think there's value in every book
on craft that is written.
Because it's all about taking what works for
you and just kind of leaving the rest
behind. Maybe you're not ready for it yet.
(20:36):
Maybe later in your life, that piece of
advice will be more relevant, but for now
it's not. Right? So you set that aside
and just take what is valuable to you
at the time and move forward.
If you haven't checked out any of McKee's
work, I really, really suggest that you do.
I know it's made a huge impact on
my writing and it likely will on yours
as well.
(21:00):
So this is the part of the show
where I usually share a writing challenge for
the week ahead. But I'm going to forego
that this week since the show itself,
was basically,
a writing challenge. Right? To to try to
write scenes with as little dialogue as possible.
And I hope you'll try that this week.
Try to write an entire scene
without dialogue, especially a scene of conflict.
(21:23):
So instead with this weekly challenge segment, I'd
like to actually introduce something that I'm gonna
be sharing in the newsletter that I talked
about at the top of the show, and
I'm calling it the big read.
And it's a chance for me to share
what I'm reading now and how
what I'm reading is informing my own writing.
So right now I'm reading a book called
(21:44):
A 27
by Aron Ralston.
If you've read this or heard about it,
you know that this is a pretty rough
story. Right? True story of the guy who
gets trapped by the boulder,
and has to sever his own arm to
escape and to live. So now I know
I'm a little slow getting around to actually
reading this book. I mean, it was a
bestseller in 02/2010.
(22:06):
But, honestly, I've been
a little scared
of this book. So,
I'm usually into stories of survival and things
like that,
but I just wasn't sure I could handle
reading about somebody cutting off their own arm.
But I knew it would be a great
model for what I'm writing right now for
my current work in progress. So I finally
bit the bullet, and I dove in. Now
(22:27):
I'm only about a quarter of the way,
through the book as of today, but I
already feel like I'm getting some insights
in craft
from this book. And here's the insight I
wanted to share with you today.
So this book seems to be a good
model for
how to incorporate backstory
into what could
be a relatively dull experience overall. Now you're
(22:49):
thinking, wait a second, Brad. A dull experience.
He severs his arm. Right? But when you
think about it, that's a very tiny part
of this book, and the rest of the
book is him basically
stuck. Right? Nobody else is around. He's stuck.
So how else does a writer sustain over
400 pages of basically,
oh, shit. I'm stuck under this rock
(23:09):
without jumping into backstory? So he's got to
bring a lot of backstory into the story
to to fill it out.
And Ralston here seems to be using
an every other chapter technique to break up
the story. So one chapter will be in
real time. Right? He's stuck and he's trying
to get out. He's trying to extricate himself.
And that seems to be almost always followed
(23:31):
by a chapter or a section
that goes back and kinda builds up his
outdoorsman
cred and his backstory.
And I'm actually not sure I'm crazy
about the technique because I already feel that
pull
to kind of just skip the backstory chapters
and get to the good stuff. Right? Now
I'm a little troubled that I just called,
(23:52):
you know, a person cutting off their own
arm the good stuff.
Yikes. But, I think you know what I
mean. The action stuff. The stuff that, is
the promise of the premise of the book.
And as I read this, I wonder if
it might have worked better
if it was structured a little more like
Cheryl Strayed's Wild.
And what she does in that book is
she
(24:12):
is telling the story of her,
you know, almost cross country trek along the
Pacific Crest Trail. So ultimately, it's the same
kind of story. Right? Somebody who's primarily alone
going, through this struggle.
But what she does is she falls in
and out of backstory
as the experiences that she's having
naturally bring them to mind. So it seems
(24:34):
like a more natural way,
to the way that humans actually process experiences.
And it's not quite as jarring to the
reader, I think. So anyway, I'd love to
hear your take on that, especially if you've
read a hundred and twenty seven hours. You
can write to me at Brad Reed at
bradreedwrites
dot com. You can also hit me up
on Twitter.
My handle there is bradreedwrites.
(24:56):
So that's gonna wrap it up for us
this week. I hope that I haven't turned
you off with the news that we might
be wrapping up the podcast in the next
few weeks. Again, that decision hasn't been finalized,
but I do hope you'll subscribe to the
newsletter so we don't lose touch if that
is the case. Head on over to bradreedwrites.com,
and you'll see a link for that there.
So until next week, remember the best way
(25:19):
to improve your craft
is by writing.
That's what I'm off to go do, and
I hope that you're off to do the
same. Let's get some words on paper this
week, and we'll meet up again next week
for another episode of the Inside Creative Writing
podcast.
Thanks for listening to the Inside inside creative
writing podcast with your host, writer and educator,
(25:39):
Brad Reed.
We'll be back next week.
Popular Podcasts
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show
The Clay Travis and Buck Sexton Show. Clay Travis and Buck Sexton tackle the biggest stories in news, politics and current events with intelligence and humor. From the border crisis, to the madness of cancel culture and far-left missteps, Clay and Buck guide listeners through the latest headlines and hot topics with fun and entertaining conversations and opinions.