December 2, 2024 • 56 mins
The U.S. Navy's Additive Manufacturing Center of Excellence (AM CoE), a linchpin in maritime technological advancement, is located inside the Center for Manufacturing Advancement on the IALR campus. This episode highlights the AM CoE as a collaborative hub of strategic importance in meeting the U.S. Navy's ambitious submarine production goals. This project is driving manufacturing innovation forward.
IALR Executive Vice President of Manufacturing Advancement Jason Wells is joined by Advanced Manufacturing Director Jesse Geisbert and Additive Manufacturing Program Manager Aaron Wiest, both from the Maritime Industrial Base (MIB). They discuss the impact of the Navy’s AM CoE and the success stories where the project has prototyped and delivered mission-critical parts for ships and submarines much quicker than traditional methods, such as castings and forgings, and supply chains could have. This informative discussion includes:
- What is the Maritime Industrial Base? (01:03)
- Advanced manufacturing technology development (06:54)
- Partnering with the Maritime Industrial Base (08:54)
- Additive Manufacturing Center of Excellence (11:25)
- Public/private partnerships (18:41)
- Success stories (24:44)
- NASAM & ATDM (31:54)
- Another success story (40:04)
- AM CoE partners (50:27)
- Parting thoughts (53:15)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caleb Ayers (00:09):
Welcome to another episode of Inside IALR.
Daniel held down the fort forthe last four episodes and now
I'm back on the mic, so this isa fun episode.
We have a lot of really coolprojects that we run out of our
manufacturing advancementdivision, and several of those
are in partnership with the USNavy and particularly working
Maritime Industrial Baseformerly known as the Submarine
(00:29):
Industrial Base up untilrecently and now we have two
guests here with the MaritimeIndustrial Base.
So we have Jesse Geisbert,who's the Advanced Manufacturing
Director for the MaritimeIndustrial Base, and we have
Aaron Weist, who's the AdditiveManufacturing Program Manager,
also for the Maritime IndustrialBase, and also we have Jason
(00:50):
Wells, our Executive VicePresident of Manufacturing
Advancement.
So thank you all for being here.
Jesse Geisbert (00:55):
Thanks for having us.
Thank you.
Caleb Ayers (00:57):
So to start, let's talk a little bit big picture.
What is the Maritime IndustrialBase?
We'll start there and see wherewe go.
Jesse Geisbert (01:04):
So I would say, starting, if we're going to
talk about Maritime IndustrialBase, we should probably first
talk about the SubmarineIndustrial Base.
So where we started, there was astudy done back in FY, fiscal
year 21, that looked at ourability to build one Columbia,
two Virginia per year and fromthat study came out that we
(01:24):
needed multiple differentthrusts.
So one was in technologydevelopment, one was in
workforce, one was in the supplychain, one was in
infrastructure, strategicoutsourcing, and that set a
budget profile that was, Ibelieve, unprecedented at the
time to go after thoseinitiatives.
So our area, aaron and I weboth originally worked in
(01:47):
technology development for theSubmarine Industrial Base I was
the deputy program manager forthat department or that division
, technology development werecoined later to advanced
manufacturing to try to protectsome of the stuff that we were
doing so that it wasn't viewedas like basic R&D type stuff in
(02:09):
the budget and then thereforeget cut because it wasn't ready
for it wasn't viewed as likeready to actually move the
needle.
So what we focus on on theadvanced manufacturing side is
how do we go get to, how do wego support the one plus two when
it was the submarine industrialbase?
Caleb Ayers (02:28):
And those are just for clarity.
Those are two different classesof submarine that we're trying
to.
You all are trying to produceone of each or say the names
again.
Jesse Geisbert (02:38):
So the one plus two phrase comes from one
Columbia to Virginia per year,which is what we've currently by
26,.
Right, which is when we getinto that steady state
production.
But it's really more than thatfor submarine industrial base.
It was really one Columbia, twoVirginias, plus AUKUS, plus
sustainment.
(02:58):
And while we're at it, at theEB, newport News Primes, what
are they also touching?
They're also touching carriersand we have to, like I said,
sustain it and make sure we hadthe fleet.
So it quickly became this bigpicture.
But at the end of the day itwas how do we use technology in
(03:19):
the pillar that we work in to gohelp drive the 1 plus 2 mission
?
That got additional when werealized the amount of scope and
work that we needed to go dowas still above and beyond some
of the funding.
Our leadership was able to goget even more additional funding
, even more unprecedented amountof funds, which was great, to
go help move the needle.
And that's when some of theleadership said, hey, the
(03:42):
submarine industrial base isdoing these great things.
What about the other, you know,aspects of the Navy?
What about the combatants?
What about the auxiliaries?
What about our aviationdepartment?
What about munitions?
Right, it's.
How do we go help?
How do we go help do everythingthe submarine industrial base
is doing successfully and applythat across the board?
(04:03):
So that's where we transitionedfrom the SIB to the MIB and the
MIB was, I think, officiallystood up September of this year
September 2024, with thatmission of looking across the
maritime industrial base.
So doing everything we weredoing for the 1 plus 2 mission
but for across the maritimeindustrial base and leveraging
(04:23):
all the success from the MIB.
We carried pretty much the samepillars and added a couple more
.
So it's still workforce, it'sstill advanced manufacturing,
it's still supply chain, there'sstill infrastructure, and so
our mission, I guess, today iscarrying forward everything we
did on the submarine industrialbase, is carrying forward
(04:45):
everything we did on thesubmarine industrial base.
How do we go get that readinessfor our Navy at large to go do
the missions that it needs to do?
Aaron Wiest (04:51):
I'd love to take a crack at that question as well.
Sure, yeah, Reading the newslast night was a little bit
sobering.
The Biden administrationauthorized Ukraine to use some
of the munitions we've providedthem for deeper attacks against
Russia, and Russia has changedtheir nuclear posture and
(05:14):
threatened retaliation.
And the submarine service iscalled the silent service
because for what?
70 years now, we've maintainedpeace through power.
There is probably most of youhave heard of mutually assured
destruction.
It's a terrifying concept, aspowers across the world with
(05:35):
nuclear weapons truly have theability to wipe out life.
And so by maintainingsubmarines which have that
ability those are the Columbiaclass and the Ohio class to
retaliate, protect us in theevent of a strike, we basically
de-escalate that danger becausenobody wants to risk that.
(05:57):
The Virginia class are theattack submarines, and then
we've got the entire surfacefleet that allows us to forward,
project power.
And so the maritime industrialbase is around to ensure that we
have the capabilities we needanywhere on the planet and that
we can provide them with ourshipbuilders, with the workforce
(06:18):
, our sub-tier suppliers, withthe equipment and the base
materials that they needcastings, forgings, additively
manufactured material, machinedparts, non-destructive testing.
We're trying to ensure that ourindustrial base remains vibrant
, so that we can deter thoseaggressions.
Caleb Ayers (06:36):
Thank you both for that great overview of sort of
what you guys do and where youguys came from, and then Aaron
for bringing it back to why thatmatters.
I mean, that was going to beone of my questions.
Aaron Wiest (06:45):
It's a scary time right now, no longer need to ask
that question.
Caleb Ayers (06:48):
Tell me a little bit about big picture, some of
the technology development thatyou all are working with in
advanced manufacturing.
Jesse Geisbert (06:55):
So advanced manufacturing on our program, we
basically split it into threemain pillars.
One is additive manufacturing.
I would say it's all under theumbrella of Industry 4.0.
But where we started, additivemanufacturing was the clear
front runner and that's whatAaron manages the additive
manufacturing program.
(07:17):
What we're trying to do, Iwould say two main drivers is
material availability ensurematerial is available.
Drivers is materialavailability ensure material is
available and augment andsupport the workforce.
And when you can do those twothings, then you can support
on-time delivery of components.
And so our portfolio is brokendown into three main sections
(07:37):
additive manufacturing, eachwith a series of additional
projects and programs underAaron, non-destructive testing
and industry all the rest ofindustry 4.0, but we basically
called that one industry 4.0.
And so each one of those threeprograms has a series of
programs and projects under itagain that all go to support
(07:59):
material availability, workforceaugmentation for on-time
delivery.
Caleb Ayers (08:03):
Jason I'm going to bring you in now.
Can you give kind of abig-picture overview of how here
at IALR we're partnering withthe Maritime Industrial Base and
also I mean I know ourpartnership goes to the Navy
beyond just the MaritimeIndustrial Base.
So kind of talk about some ofthose legs of that partnership.
Jason Wells (08:24):
Jesse had a perfect segue into this.
A lot of our initiatives hereon campus, here at the Institute
, aligned extremely well withthe initiatives that were going
on simultaneously within the SIB, which has become the MIB.
So here on campus, you know,and here in Danville, we were
looking to recreate ourselves,rebuild ourselves to a bit as a
(08:47):
community, and we saw our pathsthere being technology and
workforce development.
So we had a lot of thoseefforts already in place,
already in motion for the last10, 15 years of looking how can
we build on creating world-classskilled labor and realizing
that you know, for every oneengineer you have, you have to
(09:09):
have a team of doers,technicians, that are out there
actually making parts, growingparts, welding parts, inspecting
parts, and then also thebuilding we're in right now.
The CMA was to focus in ontechnology implementation to
help rise or help elevateindustry to meet demands,
(09:30):
production demands, strengthenthe industrial base here in our
region, which now is starting totranslate out nationally with
our alignment and our programswith the Navy and with the
Maritime Industrial Base.
So it was a lot of the thingsthat we had noticed on a
regional level or on a locallevel were the same things that
(09:51):
were being realized nationally.
And when Navy, when IBAS andleaders within the DOD came to
our community and saw that wewere recognizing the same things
on a regional level, they sawan opportunity to leverage some
of the resources that we had putin place some of the time we've
(10:11):
already invested the 10 yearsgetting to that point and saw
that as an opportunity topartner with us here locally and
leverage some of thoseinvestments that we've made here
in the region and locally toreally accelerate some of the
efforts that they were lookingto engage in and those main
connection points I guess wehave with the Navy would be.
Caleb Ayers (10:33):
you want to give a quick breakdown of those?
Yeah, certainly.
Jason Wells (10:36):
So we have really two extremely strong lines of
effort here on campus.
One is on the workforcedevelopment side, which is our
accelerated training and defensemanufacturing program, and the
other is in what ouroptimization center, which we
call the Center forManufacturing Advancement, where
we host and proudly house theAM Center of Excellence project
(10:59):
for the Navy.
So that's what I want to spendthe bulk of our time on today is
the Additive ManufacturingCenter of Excellence.
Caleb Ayers (11:02):
I know Navy, so that's what I want to spend the
bulk of our time on.
Today is the AdditiveManufacturing Center of
Excellence.
I know there's been a lotthat's happened in the last two
years and as that project hasramped up.
So I mean for any of you, tellme a little bit about what that
project is and then kind of,yeah, I guess first we'll start
with kind of what is the mission, what is the focus of that
project, and then we'll get intosome of the success and impact
(11:24):
we're already seeing.
Aaron Wiest (11:25):
I got to be around for the beginning of the AMCOE.
My colleague Larissa, who nowis Jesse's deputy and leads up
the industry 4.0 efforts, helpedwith the kickoff, helped
provide some of the initial Navyguidance for reaching the
initial operating capability,and this was really the
brainchild of the executivedirector of PEOS SBN, that's the
(11:48):
Strategic Systems ProgramOffice.
Did I say that right?
Strategic Submarines ProgramOffice?
Sorry, and we needed a centerthat would kind of be the nexus
of additive integration acrossthe country, a place where
commercial vendors could comeand get the help and training
(12:10):
and mentorship to basically beable to meet all of the Navy
requirements.
A place where the additive isnew.
There are still things we'relearning in that manufacturing
space.
So the first time you make apart you're likely to run into
some issues and the COE waswilling to stand up and take it
on the chin with some of thoseearly issues.
(12:31):
Get through that, figure outbest practices and be able to
push that out to the industrialbase through technical data
packages.
Also be willing to house alibrary of those technical data
packages that in traditionalthought patterns are like a
casting mold would be placed ata foundry somewhere and every
(12:54):
time you need to get that part,you need to go to that foundry
because that's where youinvested the millions of dollars
for the casting mold.
When you move to a digitalparadigm and you have a digital
casting mold or an additive datafile that allows you to use a
3D printer and manufacture theshape that you need that will
(13:14):
then later go throughvalue-added processing, the COE
gets to be the repository ofthose for any of the companies
that wish to join in thatcollaborative network and
support the US Navy.
So the Center of Excellence hada whole lot of really valuable
elements that we needed toaccelerate additive
(13:36):
manufacturing within thesubmarine and now maritime
industrial base.
Jesse Geisbert (13:39):
Yeah, well, said I would pile on to that.
There's a saying that I'veheard.
I think it's appropriate.
It's you know, put your moneywhere your mouth is.
And that's what Matt Sermon andWhitney Jones and Admiral
Papano did.
Right, we had talked a talkabout doing additive
manufacturing and other thingsto help the one plus two mission
(14:01):
at the time, and this was aforcing function right of
something to industry that wecould say the Navy is serious
about additive manufacturing andwe're so serious that we've
stood up this capability andsupported this capability.
And anybody in the industrialbase like, go here first, right,
and that was a direct shot tothe shipbuilders that said you
(14:22):
know we are absolutely serious,the Navy, about making
investments outside of theshipbuilders.
That said you know we areabsolutely serious, the Navy,
about making investments outsideof the shipbuilders directly
that go to support, you know,the on-time delivery.
And what better place to put itthan on the ATDM campus right
where you're also getting thattraining.
And so now you have a one-stopshop where it's a landing page
or landing spot for industry tocome learn about additive, get
(14:44):
qualified, understand the Navyrequirements.
You have training, you can getyour parts made.
You know the prototype's not aproduction.
It's never meant for productionrun, but you can get that
prototype made that can then gobe farmed out with additional
people that the AMCOE isconnecting, you know, it's being
that connective tissue for theOEMs and the shipbuilders and
the industrial base at large and, like I said, it's truly the
(15:07):
Navy is serious aboutoperationalizing this capability
and this is the investment wecontinue to make to go support
that delivery.
Jason Wells (15:17):
One of the real perks of having the COE here on
campus in connection with ATDM,as Jesse had just mentioned, is
a lot of times in industryyou'll see technology created
and then companies having tofigure out how to adopt that
technology and then you'll see alag time of how do they get
their staff up to understand andappreciate and adopt that
(15:38):
technology.
The one thing that we'restriving very hard for is to
keep those two programs reallyconnected in the sense of making
sure that the skilled laborthat we are training to is
training to the most relevanttechnology that is being
developed in the COE, so we canminimize that lag time of
(15:59):
adoption and that lag time ofunderstanding and comprehension
at the shop floor level or atthe technician level.
So it's extremely complementaryand I really admire what the
Navy has done in realizing thatand housing these two programs
together on the same campus.
Jesse Geisbert (16:20):
Yeah, jason hit something.
You know.
One of the big things thatwe've talked about is how do you
go minimize the economicbarrier to entry for some of
these companies.
So if you're a company that isstruggling with your current
value chain and you want to gobring in AM, but it's new and
it's novel and you don'tunderstand all the requirements,
well, you have the COE that canstart walking you through some
(16:42):
of the requirements.
And if you want to bring oncapability inside your fence or
work with somebody else, theycan connect you with those
people.
And if you do bring it in yourfence right, there's avenues to
go get supplier developmentfunding or go make a request for
supplier development funding sothat the Navy can support
economically you bringing thatcapability in.
And then you can go gettraining graduates from the ATDM
(17:03):
that have relevant experienceat the ATDM that can go, that
have relevant experience at theAMCOE who can operate those
machines.
And if you have problem parts,the COE can help you develop the
AM data files or the technicaldata packages that will allow
you to do serial production inyour fence and give that back to
you right.
And so if you're a company, theeconomic barrier to entry is
designed to be near zero, to getyou back to on-time delivery of
(17:27):
your component and a supportiveworkforce for those things.
And what better time than everto actually again get into
additive manufacturing at whatshould be a near zero expense to
a company a near zero expenseto a company and I guess that
goes back to the importance ofwhy you all are doing this work.
Caleb Ayers (17:55):
The Navy, the Maritime Industrial Base, these
investments are being made inallowing industrial companies,
private sector companies, theseresources because of how
important this work is, thatthese submarines get produced.
As you were saying, aaron, thisis about global power and
display of power and there'sthere's a lot at stake here.
So that makes sense that it'sthis, this level of investment
going in and this level ofresources available for these
companies.
I mean, I, you know, workingfor the Institute for Advanced
(18:16):
Learning and Research we arefrom from the beginning we've
been all about public-privatepartnerships and working public
sector, private sector, federal,state, local, you know kind of
combining all of those thingsand working with all of those
different entities and bringingthem together.
Talk about the AMCOE and howthe AMCOE is a great example of
(18:38):
what kind of public privatepartnerships can look like.
Aaron Wiest (18:41):
We have an era of unprecedented collaboration.
It is amazing to see companieswilling to jump in, willing to
share some of their IP actuallyto help the industrial base grow
.
The COE ends up getting to kindof cross-pollinate between all
of these companies where theycome in.
(19:02):
Obviously they're very carefulto protect industry IP.
But in that spirit ofcollaboration there will
sometimes be best practiceslearned at one company that are
allowed to be shared withanother company.
That phrase of rising tidelifts all boats is something
we're actually seeing.
In terms of the manufacturing.
We have become a place thatpeople the MIB, the COE, the
(19:30):
industrial base.
It's hard to separate sometimesin who's doing what, but
there's a growing reputationwithin the Navy that when you
have an urgent part that'sneeded and the supply system
can't handle that request forwhatever reason, sometimes a
company's out of business,sometimes there's a huge backlog
, sometimes it's a really hardto cast alloy and the MIB, our
(19:55):
partners in NAVCO5 have anadditive inbox and a request can
be sent saying we can't getthis part.
We have seen examples where theCOE by the next day has been
able to turn on manufacturing.
We've seen other examples wherethey can go out into the
industrial base, which is thepreferred route.
Once a part is well-known, howto manufacture it and get rapid
(20:18):
turnaround times that can savemonths in terms of getting
critical parts that providemission capability back to the
fleet.
Caleb Ayers (20:25):
That's exactly what I want to get to next is sort
of those stories that we've seenso far.
So basically, in the AMCOE, asyou guys have said, it's making
technical data packages and thenbeing able to send those out to
companies is the main idea, sothat suppliers can know how to
effectively use additivemanufacturing to make these
(20:45):
parts Can.
Aaron Wiest (20:48):
I correct that slightly.
Yes, there's absolutely aknow-how for some companies.
There are other companies thatare technical leaders.
They can do this in their sleep, but having that collaborative
environment where they can worktogether provides value.
So there's one elementsometimes where a startup
company might need thattechnical know-how that the COE
(21:10):
can bring.
There's anothercross-pollination thing that I
was mentioning earlier wherethat expertise can be shared
among companies.
But with that mission of the COEto be able to be an interface
between the government and theindustrial base, it's providing
a lot of value, not always themaximum technical know-how, but
(21:31):
often an engineering similaritybetween approaches.
So if you've got a hundredgreat ideas and we're all making
parts in different ways withadditive manufacturing there's
enough variability you canactually inject uncertainty into
the final product.
And with the COE having atechnical data package here's
the recipe that we used.
We know it works.
(21:52):
That gives us kind of abaseline of if you do it this
way, at least we know it works.
We're willing to learn more onthe back end, but knowing it was
made the same at company A, bor C is a value to the Navy
because we don't have to worrythat some of the innovation that
could make it in throughadditive might actually create
new phases or properties thatcould be detrimental to the end
(22:13):
product.
That's a good way to thinkabout it.
I want to make sure we giveproper credit to the amazing
engineering capabilities in ourindustrial base.
Jason Wells (22:21):
I think one of the things to add on to that that
I've found with the COE projectthat's been very helpful is
having end-to-end capabilitiesbeing able to go from having an
additive part to all the varioussteps in between to actually a
finished component.
It allows us to learn things ateach one of those stages that we
(22:42):
can implement into a morewell-rounded and complete
end-to-end strategy.
As Aaron had mentioned, and Iagree, you know there's
fantastic companies out therewith tremendous technologies but
they may be very focused andsay additive and not completely
understand the impacts that anadditive part have on the
(23:02):
subtractive side of the equation.
When you get a near net shapeon the subtractive side at times
you've got to take intoconsideration where you leave
material, where you leavesupports you know different
things like that that aren'talways intuitive with a more
traditionally cast or forgedpiece of material and grab all
(23:30):
that science and all that dataand be able to collect it is
truly a game changer thatprevents you from hitting speed
bumps along the road if a partis going from one vendor to a
next to get to that finished endpoint.
Aaron Wiest (23:39):
And to add on to what you were saying, we get
some really good scheduleacceleration because you go next
door and you can machine thepart.
You go within the same buildingand you can inspect the part,
make sure it hits thedimensional tolerances, and so
there's a really rapid loop.
The Marine Corps have adoctrine Observe Orient, decide
Act, uta and that happens soquickly at the COE because part
(24:04):
comes in, you got the modelers,then it gets printed.
You got the modelers, then itgets printed, you got the
machinists, then it needs to getinspected.
And all of that can happen in areally quick turnaround time so
that when there are inevitablyhiccups in a new manufacturing
process, those aren't taking youmonths to figure out.
They could be taking hours todays.
Caleb Ayers (24:24):
So let's talk about some of those success stories
we've seen so far, and some ofas much, as much detail as we
can about I know I've heard justyou know, word of mouth, some,
some stories of you know shipsbeing delayed, submarines that
would have been delayed if notfor for the work happening here.
So as as many stories as we canand share and talk about with
that I would, we would love tohear them I think I'll start
(24:45):
with the first one.
Aaron Wiest (24:46):
It actually happened twice.
The helo hanger door bracket is, in my very limited
understanding, it seemsbasically like that sensor on
your garage door that allows youto know there's nothing in the
path of the door that's going toopen and close.
And you've got to have thissensor in place for the
helicopter door to open andclose on our destroyers.
(25:09):
This little bracket made out of316 stainless steel not
available, going to delay adestroyer by months and prevent
it from going out to do itsmission.
Coe gets called.
I think the first one wasbefore 4th of July, was it no?
Jesse Geisbert (25:26):
before Christmas December 19th,
december 19th.
Aaron Wiest (25:29):
And COE turned it around over the Christmas and
New Year's holidays.
I think 19 days was theturnaround time because of
printing and machining andinspection and all the
capabilities that were in onehouse and an incredibly
dedicated workforce to be ableto get that destroyer back out
to its mission and let thehelicopter door do its job.
(25:51):
And it's crazy to think that apart that small could actually
impact a billion-dollar asset.
Yeah, something huge, hundredsof millions at a minimum, and it
happened again right before 4thof July.
So within this six orseven-month period, two of these
were needed.
The TDP was already developed.
(26:11):
The second turnaround was howlong?
13 days 13 days.
Caleb Ayers (26:14):
So we and you said we would be talking about months
if it was yes.
Jesse Geisbert (26:18):
Yeah, that part in particular is interesting is
part of the helo hangar doorassembly.
That's considered part of thatmassive assembly that's on the
boat and so you can't buy thehelo hangar door bracket in the
supply system, which is one ofthe other challenges, and so
they had engaged the oem thatsaid, like what's the turnaround
time for this?
(26:39):
You know this sub component inthe component that we purchased
off the helo hangar door.
You know system and that'swhere it was.
You know months, months on,months.
It was an indeterminate amountof time.
And that puts the decision tothe fleet of whether they send a
destroyer out without thatoperational capability, which is
bad, where they wait for thatcomponent to actually show up,
(27:00):
or they come up with some otherworkaround.
But the point is that the COEwas there, ready to execute in
an unprecedented amount of time.
Right, like no, I don't thinkanybody thought it would
actually work, and it wasn'tjust printing, it was working
with you know this collaborationthat Aaron was talking about,
it was working with Philadelphiato say like, okay, we're going
(27:21):
to build this mock-up and getthat tested out.
Does it work?
What adjustments do we need tomake?
Okay, we've made theadjustments.
Now we hit print right, andthat was 19 days, and part of
that 19 days, if I rememberright is because it had to be
sent off-site for heat treatbefore it came back.
Well, that's one of the reasonswhy we made an investment into
heat treat capabilities here atthe COE.
(27:42):
To further, you know, this ideaof everything can happen under
one roof, this verticallyintegrated facility, so that
it's it's I don't remember OTA,right, it's, it's, it's right.
Here in this building you canmake almost every decision and
knowledge point that you have tobefore you say, yep, that
part's good.
We've talked about the, I thinksome of the only additional
(28:03):
capabilities we've talked about.
I don't think if we've, I don'tthink we've rotted up to them,
but it's like how do we getadditional testing, like
pressure testing and hydrotesting?
If you guys wanted to have thathere, because that's some of the
common requirements on thecomponents that we go forward
through.
Sometimes you need the wholeassembly in order to do that, so
it may or may not make sense toadd that capability here.
But going back to the win, yeah, 19 days was a record.
(28:28):
Nobody thought was possible.
And then the COE beat that thesecond time around in 13 days
over both holidays whileshipping the component out for
heat treat that they couldn'tcontrol here in the building.
So it's just impressive Twicein the same year, like a
destroyer, two differentdestroyers went out and like
were able to maintain theirmission because of the COE.
Jason Wells (28:49):
The third time will be even faster now that we have
heat treats Exactly Well thebenefit I would say.
Jesse Geisbert (28:53):
The other benefit is the realization that,
hey, this as the earlierdestroyers may get more weather
damage on this component.
Like this component, thissub-assembly component, may fail
more and more.
So we took this component andconverted it into a procurable
item in the stock system.
So the the COE led the theability for the industrial base
(29:17):
now to go buy this component sothat the COE doesn't have to be
on the hook for serialproduction.
Right, the whole mission is totransfer that to the industrial
base so that the industrial basecan support, like it needs to
support, the supply system.
And now, because of the COE, wehave a part that has a
technical data package or an AMdata file that now has a stock
(29:37):
number system or should very,very close to having a stock
system number that can beprocured.
Navsup or DLA can actually gobuy this now in the industrial
base.
Aaron Wiest (29:46):
And imagine that scenario 13 days could look like
a really long time.
We've got, I think, threeactivated suppliers, basically
three companies that have gonethrough the process to prove to
the Navy that they've met thetech pub requirements.
They've got all of theengineering and technical
prowess to provide good partsrepeatedly.
I think there are anothersomething like 10 companies in
(30:09):
the queue right now working withthe COE.
But imagine a future statewhere we've got companies in
every state.
That data file exists, whetherwe need the part in Yokosuka,
japan, or Puget Sound or NorfolkNaval Shipyard, we will
hopefully have an activatedsupplier nearby with the right
(30:29):
alloy already sitting in themachine so that when the call
comes in, that data file getssent to the, to the 3d printing
company next door to theshipyard, and the part could be
delivered the next day.
That's the kind of dispersedmanufacturing and this actually
happened in world war ii.
There's this wonderful book,freedom's forge.
If you haven't had a chance toread it, highly recommend it.
(30:51):
But basically there were sewingclubs across the country where
people would sew the parachutes.
We distributed manufacturing insuch an incredible way because
there were jobs that could bedone at the point of need and 3D
printing provides a modern,technologically enhanced way of
doing that distributedmanufacturing, where a part that
(31:15):
can impact a mission can beproduced in the small.
Who knows?
It could be a small businesslocated ideally next to the
shipyard or regional maintenancecenter where the asset needs
repair.
And then, thanks to our AMAfloat program, we are having 3D
(31:35):
printers actually put on theships that can do this, not even
in a land-based location.
So there's really a recognitionwithin the Navy that additive
manufacturing can provide somecritical capability to the
warfighter, and the COE is avery important piece of that,
jason, you want to give a quickoverview of NASAM, since he
(31:57):
mentioned the ships andsubmarines?
Jason Wells (31:59):
Sure, so we started ATDM.
The accelerated trainingprogram that we have really is
primarily focused on fiveskilled paths machining, welding
, fabricating, additivemanufacturing, non-destructive
testing and quality metrology.
But out of the recognition onthe additive side and the growth
(32:23):
of the additive side and, asAaron just mentioned, putting
some of the printers onto shipsand onto bases and various
repair centers within themilitary complex, they recognize
the need to skill up some oftheir active duty sailors and
(32:44):
Marines.
So we've spun off a programthat is the Naval Air.
Right now it's identified toNaval Air but it's an additive
manufacturing training programwe call NASAM.
It's a six-week condensedprogram that's heavily focused
(33:05):
for those particular sailors,active-duty sailors and Marines
that come here to get trainingspecific on their equipment.
Curriculum is set by them butwe help facilitate the
curriculum and the education,the training, and make sure that
the comprehension is there andafter that six-week program they
(33:26):
return back to their assignedpost and then utilize those
skills to help support ourmilitary efforts.
That is now in its second year.
We've had six cohorts comethrough.
We've graduated 40 active dutysailors and Marines.
We have another cohort ready tograduate in December and we're
(33:49):
excited to continue to see thatprogram grow, the success of
that program now has NAVSEA andsome other folks also interested
in seeing how they can takeadvantage of allowing us to
facilitate some of that trainingefforts.
Caleb Ayers (34:05):
At the beginning of this we were talking about the
idea of all of this being on onecampus and you know it made
sense that you know that theNavy looked at what was
happening with.
Well, I guess the Navy wasinvolved in putting ATDM here to
begin with and, you know,accelerated training and defense
manufacturing on the workforceside, but then also deciding we
want the additive manufacturingtechnology development happening
there too and then having youknow, now with NASAM as well,
(34:28):
more workforce programsspecifically for those active
duty sailors and Marines.
It's just cool to see all thedifferent things happening on
the same campus in partnershipwith the Navy.
I know, jason, last time youwere on the podcast we talked
about that like why in the worldis the Navy investing so much
in Danville and like it's not aplace you would think of for the
US Navy to be.
But it's really cool to seekind of all of this coming
(34:49):
together and how each thingconnects and supports the other
ones.
Jason Wells (34:54):
It truly is and you know it continues to evolve and
grow in very positivedirections.
But I think you know one of thethings we hear why Danville a
lot, and you know, as wementioned, about the, you know,
leveraging some of our existingresources and infrastructure
that we had started to put intoplace.
But you know it's a.
(35:14):
What we're dealing with is isit's a national situation, so it
doesn't need to be justDanville, you know, and it
doesn't need to be just near asea, near a port.
It's certainly something thatneeds to be a national presence.
Jesse Geisbert (35:31):
I think one of the things you know we've talked
about we had the questionearlier about public private
partnerships I think the COEscreated a model right that we
should be replicating, and theCOE, like we talked about, was
never meant for production.
But there's nothing that youknow prevents us from creating
this same model, using apublic-private partnership for
(35:52):
production intended forproduction.
And I think you know one of thethings that we've championed I
know I championed with the COEis, hey, go to the COE and see
what they've done and understandtheir capabilities, because
that's what we need.
You know, like, what stops usfrom getting something like the
COE outside of every shipyard?
Right, that's intended forproduction, not the single data
(36:13):
file, right, and all theregional maintenance centers.
And then, if you expand to theMIB, right, what about these?
You know the private shipyardsthat are servicing the boats.
How do we go?
Take you know what's in thisbuilding and scale that, because
you know I'll do another nodback to a demand study that was
completed this year.
In order to meet the potentialdemand that's coming right, we
(36:39):
need hundreds of printers, whichalso means we need hundreds of
skilled labor that's going to gooperate those, which means we
need hundreds of inspectors,which means we need hundreds of
machinists.
And so if you go and you justtake what capability exists here
, that to me is like a rinse,wash and repeat model.
Right, if we get a betterprojection on what the demand is
(37:00):
which, like we, navy don'tcontrol, which is a very hard
part but if we had a betterhandle of what we think that
demand could be, this center isa model that should be repeated
rigorously, like at multipleplaces around the country, so
that, like Aaron was talkingabout this distributed
manufacturing approach, you know, a Pac-Norwest boat doesn't
(37:22):
have to necessarily come to theCOE for that first article
production part.
That's then going to, you know,an AM as a service provider.
There's production capabilitylike right outside of
Pac-Norwest right, the samething in San Diego and the same
thing in Florida and the samething in Massachusetts, right?
So this to me, this buildingrepresents, like I keep saying
(37:45):
it, a model to be repeated andthat's, I think, a testament to
how well this facility wasthought out and what
capabilities were here, becausewhen you go and you look at, hey
, in one building I can get 95%of the way through my value
stream of producing a component.
That's pretty impressive.
And that doesn't have to go out.
You don't have to outsource anyof that.
(38:06):
That's pretty impressive.
Jason Wells (38:08):
I love to hear him say that, because here at the
Institute, our mission is to bea catalyst for transformation.
Initially it started out aregional catalyst for
transformation and now it'sbecoming a national catalyst for
transformation.
And I say that to say that weare very open as an institute.
(38:30):
One of the things I'm proud ofof sharing the secret sauce with
other communities, with otherinstitutions, with other areas
where we can replicate this andwhere we can expand upon this
and scale this to a nationallevel, because we do fully
support the mission and we'reproud to be a part of that
(38:51):
mission, but we also know thatit takes the whole nation.
So we have proudly hosted manyevents and many people from
different communities, fromdifferent states and different
organizations to come here seewhat we're doing, explain to
them what we've done in order toget to this point and be an
active part in trying to helpother communities replicate this
(39:14):
, because that is our mission isto be a catalyst for
transformation.
Jesse Geisbert (39:18):
Different countries too.
Jason Wells (39:20):
Yeah, good point, I mean, we have used the COE as
an example.
Jesse Geisbert (39:23):
Hey, australia, right, you should.
You know, this is somethingthat you should be looking at
and considering.
Which they've come here,different territories, right,
like when we talk about puttingthis kind of capability in Guam.
It's like, hey, come look atthe COE Like, this is, this is
what you need if you're going tobe successful.
Jason Wells (39:41):
Yeah, we just had five ATDM students that went
through ATDM, came over the COEto understand it and went back
to Guam.
So you know very much so.
Caleb Ayers (39:51):
I would like, before we get out of here, I
want to hear one more greatstory of a ship or submarine or
destroyer, Something that wassomething where production would
have caused a major delay andthe COE was able to step in and
help.
Jesse Geisbert (40:04):
I'll make a recommendation, but I think
Aaron can field it.
So I would recommend the trashdisposal unit.
Aaron Wiest (40:08):
Oh yeah, we want to go super unglamorous.
Believe it or not, even whenyou're living under the water
for weeks at a time, yougenerate trash.
That trash has got to gosomewhere.
So there is a trash disposalunit on a submarine and it is
really integral.
You got to be able to shootthat trash overboard.
There's some pretty criticalcomponents that have to get in
(40:31):
there and one of them, the trashdisposal unit liner, gets
basically welded into a largerassembly and you can't open it
back up, you can't get the linerout.
It is a critical step, eventhough it's a very unglamorous
sounding part that is necessaryto the manufacturing of a
(40:52):
submarine.
One of our prime shipbuildersare we allowed to say names?
Sure, okay, electric boat.
Newport News are working onthose.
I think this was an electricboat part of the module.
They, this prime shipbuilder,could not proceed without the
casting.
They'd had six of the castingsthat had all failed.
It's a very hard to cast alloy,somewhat complex part and they
(41:17):
didn't have a path forward,which meant stalled submarine
construction for one piece.
And the COE this is the onewhere the request comes in.
It gets modeled by the next day.
They're printing.
Do you remember how long it wasbefore the prototype was done.
Jesse Geisbert (41:33):
I think it was a total of nine days.
Aaron Wiest (41:35):
It was some crazy turnaround time for a part that
has, I think, a year plus leadtime, which had already elapsed,
and then all of the ones in thewarehouse were defective, and
so the COE was able to turn thisaround once again.
That looped manufacturing wherehere's what we've got Is this
prototype okay?
Here's the modifications tomake.
(41:56):
Here's how we get to the rightpart, and I think a finished one
is now with the shipbuilder,and submarine construction can
resume.
Jesse Geisbert (42:05):
Yeah, that's insane If you think about a
single part holding up.
So, the way you know theshipbuilders do production, it's
in, it's a parallel production,right, a staggered production.
And so you have a unit now Ithink it was 805, that's, that
is stopped, which means, likeeverything else is very quickly
going to catch up and bottleneckbehind that, because the and
(42:27):
the way they do the sequenceconstruction right, like they
all have a trash disposal unitright in there, and so if you
don't get 805 fixed, you're notgoing to jump.
806 isn't going to jump, 805,right, 807 is not going to jump.
Them all.
They all need that unit.
And, like aaron said, six weredelivered, six were defective
and six were rejected.
And this component is so bigthat your alternatives aren't.
(42:49):
You know, sometimes you'llyou'll hear people getting
creative like, oh, I'll hog,I'll get a billet and I'll hog
this part out of a billet, butbut this unit is so this
component is so big that that'snot an alternative.
And so, thankfully, right, likewho's there, I would say, to
save the day, let's see who heis.
Literally.
You know, I was talking withPhil yesterday and he said you
(43:12):
know that they got the call.
It's like you know you shouldmake a skit out of it, right?
They got the call in a parkinglot and within three hours the
part had started printing, right, or they had the model
confirmed right, and it was justlike.
That was the power of acollaboration, the passion, I
would say, of the people here atthe COE.
And then they worked threeshifts, you know, around the
(43:35):
clock, right, to get this partproduced in record time, a part
that they had never made before,a part that was modeled in like
three hours, right, the buildstrategy, how you're going to go
do it.
And you know just that, like,head down, let's go, we're going
to go get this part printed anddelivered back to the shipyard
(43:56):
so that the shipyard can resumemachining operations and
actually keep full-scalesubmarine production going.
Like one part in nine days.
The coe turned that around andand turned that around to where
that, when successful, you knowthat opened up the aperture to
for the shipbuilder to say, okay, like, what are my backup
(44:17):
options if I don't want to keeprelying on a casting right, or
if I want to rely on a casting,but I also want to have this
like parallel path to support sothat then opened their I would
say aperture to say, okay, we'regoing to now go contract this
component out to go be procured.
And if it wasn't for the COE,like everything, you know what's
(44:43):
the impact of that?
Right, and you know that's a weoften get challenged on metrics
, right, like what's the impactof holding up a series of hulls
that are in parallelconstruction?
Like, can you quantify that?
Let's try.
Aaron Wiest (44:53):
Let's look at the impact here.
One of them is Ohio-classsubmarines need to retire Every
day.
A Columbia is late, is relyingon a very amazingly capable
asset but a 40-year-old asset tokeep doing its mission.
When a Columbia gets out, itbrings brand-new capability,
(45:14):
brand-new deterrence, brandbrand new safety to the world.
When you Google the cost of aColumbia submarine, we are
investing a lot in these reallyvaluable assets.
If you think that they've got a30- 40-year lifetime divide by
that cost, we're looking at avalue to the American taxpayer
of somewhere in the neighborhoodof a million dollars a day for
these assets, of somewhere inthe neighborhood of a million
(45:36):
dollars a day for these assetsEvery day.
That that's delayed, just ineconomic terms, is value that
we're losing out on as ataxpayer.
So, whether it's world safetyor whether it's getting your tax
dollars at work a day earlier,those components being delayed
make a big difference and have ahigh value to our nation and to
our Navy.
May I ask a?
Jason Wells (45:53):
question.
You mentioned Ohio class andthe age of that particular class
.
Do you see value in what we'redoing with the COE in in helping
sustain?
Uh, you know that class as well.
You know further because I haveto assume, um, as things start
to age out, you also find thatparts may be discontinued or no
(46:16):
longer available, and you know,so that may be an opportunity to
do some reverse engineering, isthat?
Is that also a credible use ofthe COE.
Aaron Wiest (46:26):
It is Just we'd given you an example of surface
ship sustainment.
There are multiple examples ofsubmarine sustainment, but
you're going to have to inviteus back to hear those.
Jesse Geisbert (46:37):
Unless Jesse wants to share.
Well, the quick one is 100%.
So the Michigan project is agreat example.
It's a higher class, it's a BNthat was converted to a GN boat,
but the AMCOE again.
If you ask for three examples,like, I think, helo, hangar door
, trash disposal unit, the thirdone I would say is the Michigan
tailpiece, right.
And so we have a series.
(46:59):
Long story short.
We were able to hook up withPuget Sound and the Project
Super out there who has the USSMichigan coming into an extended
availability in FY or in 2025,calendar year 2025.
And we said here's a series ofcomponents.
One of those are trim and drainvalves and of those trim and
(47:22):
drain valves, the bodies and thetailpiece are always corroded
because of their.
You know what they experienceoperationally, and so they know
that they're going to have to dosome level of repair.
And we said, hey, am can comehelp.
Instead of planning someunknown timeline associated with
those repairs or relying on thestock system, which currently
(47:45):
doesn't have anything available,or relying on a rolling
cannibalization list from theother shipyards to go replace
those, we can deliver aready-for-install asset.
The tailpiece is one of thosecomponents in there and we
leverage the COE to go print atailpiece in laser powder bed
(48:07):
fusion to show it can be doneand that we can transfer.
At the same time they printedanother one in wire arc DED and
at the same time they printed athird one on a different machine
in wire arc DED, and at thesame time they printed a third
one on a different machine inwire arc DED, and so in in one
place.
Now, yet again, we've createdtwo different AM data files that
can go be distributed if wewant, or like when, when this
(48:28):
part gets converted into aprocurable item in the stock
system.
Well, now the AMCC has helpedopen the aperture even further.
Right, because we're notvendor-locked into just powder
bed companies, we're not justisolated to DED companies.
You can go both and I thinkwe're awaiting the final results
.
But all indications say thathere's now for a single
(48:51):
component that you know theMichigan's 42 years old, so
she's almost at the end, unlessthey keep extending her.
But there's other boats thatare, you know, 20 years old or I
don't remember when the lastOhio was commissioned and
delivered.
But, point being like, the Ohioclass will be around still for
quite a considerable amount oftime and these trim and drain
valves will constantly needrepair.
(49:12):
And now, through the COE andthrough you know the efforts
that we've pushed here's onecomponent that is a pull-through
, frankly, on Columbia classright.
So we know it's used on Ohio's,we know it's used on Columbia.
There's a very similarcomponent used on Virginia that
we can now go also create thetechnical data package for.
That can go be procured in thestock system as a standalone
(49:33):
component as opposed to thewhole assembly.
So it's enabling anybody who'sdoing maintenance and repair you
have another tool in your toolchest.
If you're an OEM, you can usethe same thing to support a
faster on-time delivery of yourcomponent.
And so to me it's a win-win-win, all enabled by the COE being
(49:55):
here doing that work.
Jason Wells (49:57):
Excellent, I could listen to these stories all day.
Yeah, no, this is awesome.
Caleb Ayers (50:01):
Yeah, I think, aaron, you're right, we've got
to invite you guys back.
Jason Wells (50:04):
Yeah, because I want to geek out with Aaron on
material science.
Jesse Geisbert (50:08):
That one might be over my head.
Be careful.
Caleb Ayers (50:12):
Before we go I know I mentioned the idea when we
talked a little bit about theidea of public-private
partnerships can we kind of givean overview real quick of the
different organizations involvedin the AMCOE and then we'll
wrap up with whatever otherparting thoughts you guys would
want to share.
Jesse Geisbert (50:27):
Yeah.
So to my I hope I don't messany of this up but to my
knowledge, the COE is reallycool because it's a consortium
of partners, right.
So we obviously have Austaldoing the oversight, the
management of it, but then wehave Phillips Federal, you have
CCAM, industrial InspectionAnalysis I think that's II's
(50:52):
acronym, fast Tech, and it'sreally, you know, hopefully I
don't know if I've missed any ofthe contorted apartment, I know
I've missed them Spectrum,right.
The point being it's I shouldmemorize the banner it's an
impressive amount of Meditoyahelped support us on the
(51:17):
metrology side.
Yeah, it's an impressive amountof people that have all come
together recognizing that.
You know, in that collaborativeenvironment with, you know, I
would say, support and fundingfrom the government in that
public-private partnership, thatthat collaborative environment
is what enables the win, right,like there's not a standalone.
Hey, the government's going towrite a contract with Austal and
a separate contract withPhillips, and it's like you
would never get there, you wouldnever get this kind of
collaboration and power andspeed.
And so the COE, having thatconsortium of partners that
(51:40):
they're bringing in, plus thecontinued, you know, I would say
, support and investment fromthe government, enables this
public private partnership to besuccessful.
Jason Wells (51:51):
He's absolutely correct, and I think the nice
thing about having a consortiumof partners also is that those
partners also bring some outsideperspectives as well.
Phillips, for example, hasdivisions all across in the
(52:22):
machining side of the world, inthe additive side of the world.
They're dealing with customersand you know, supplying
equipment to customers all overand have a lot of insights and
lessons learned that they bringto the table, as well as IIA and
Meditoya and you know.
So it's that collaboration alsobrings in a lot of good
different perspectives as well.
Caleb Ayers (52:31):
That's all the questions I have.
I think this is a really coolproject.
I've enjoyed hearing about itfrom you guys because I've heard
, like, basically the idea oftechnical data packages, that's
pretty much it and then like alittle bit of those
word-of-mouth stories of like,oh, there was a ship that would
have been delayed, except wemade a part, like that's the
extent of what I had heard.
So, hearing all of thisfirsthand Navy and for these
(52:55):
ships and submarines and theirsuppliers, and as you said,
aaron, I mean it goes to, I mean, if you want to think about it
like national security, that'sobviously the main point, but I
mean it goes back to economicsand tax dollars too, if you want
to think about it that way,that this place is making a
difference and that's reallycool to.
It's really cool for us to beable to host that on our campus
and be a partner in that, andwe're, yeah, I just think this
(53:16):
is super cool.
So is there anything?
Jesse Geisbert (53:18):
else.
I just want to say thanks.
Like we don't do a good enoughjob, I would say, trying to show
, so we broadcast these wins,you know all the way up to
ASNRDA on our, you know ourweekly and biweekly updates, but
we don't do probably a goodenough job of advertising at
large, right, all of these wins,because you know, frankly, it's
(53:38):
just so fast.
Right Like every, there'salways these issues that need
these solutions.
So I think this podcast and youknow, getting this kind of word
of mouth out is great, and so Iwould just say thanks for the
opportunity to have yet anotherplatform to share those kind of
wins, opportunity to have yetanother platform to share those
kind of wins.
Aaron Wiest (53:58):
We'd love to come back when you know we rinse wash
repeat this and keepbroadcasting all the wins that
the COE is providing.
Yeah, there's also a piece ofask not what your country can do
for you, but what you can dofor your country.
We are grateful to ourwarfighters because they give up
so much in service of theircountry.
There's a lot that machinistsand 3D printer technicians and
(54:22):
inspectors can give for theircountry too.
And when I think about peoplesacrificing holidays to serve
their country, missing out ontime with their family in those
precious moments because theysee a mission and they realize
that they have a part in ournational security and in keeping
(54:45):
our naval fleet doing its jobto keep us and the world safe,
it really touches me.
It's part of why I'm proud to dothe job that I do.
You don't want me to have aweapon.
I got terrible eyes, I can'tshoot straight, but I do have a
good brain and people who havegood machining skills, people
who have good abilities to makethings, have a way they can
(55:10):
serve their country, and itdoesn't have to be in uniform
and it can be at home, it can beat the workplace, and we're
really grateful to the hard workyou're doing here, to all of
the people you're training inservice of our nation.
Thank you, thank you Well saidThank you guys.
Welcome to another episode of Inside IALR.
Daniel held down the fort forthe last four episodes and now
I'm back on the mic, so this isa fun episode.
We have a lot of really coolprojects that we run out of our
manufacturing advancementdivision, and several of those
are in partnership with the USNavy and particularly working
Maritime Industrial Baseformerly known as the Submarine
(00:29):
Industrial Base up untilrecently and now we have two
guests here with the MaritimeIndustrial Base.
So we have Jesse Geisbert,who's the Advanced Manufacturing
Director for the MaritimeIndustrial Base, and we have
Aaron Weist, who's the AdditiveManufacturing Program Manager,
also for the Maritime IndustrialBase, and also we have Jason
(00:50):
Wells, our Executive VicePresident of Manufacturing
Advancement.
So thank you all for being here.
Jesse Geisbert (00:55):
Thanks for having us.
Thank you.
Caleb Ayers (00:57):
So to start, let's talk a little bit big picture.
What is the Maritime IndustrialBase?
We'll start there and see wherewe go.
Jesse Geisbert (01:04):
So I would say, starting, if we're going to
talk about Maritime IndustrialBase, we should probably first
talk about the SubmarineIndustrial Base.
So where we started, there was astudy done back in FY, fiscal
year 21, that looked at ourability to build one Columbia,
two Virginia per year and fromthat study came out that we
(01:24):
needed multiple differentthrusts.
So one was in technologydevelopment, one was in
workforce, one was in the supplychain, one was in
infrastructure, strategicoutsourcing, and that set a
budget profile that was, Ibelieve, unprecedented at the
time to go after thoseinitiatives.
So our area, aaron and I weboth originally worked in
(01:47):
technology development for theSubmarine Industrial Base I was
the deputy program manager forthat department or that division
, technology development werecoined later to advanced
manufacturing to try to protectsome of the stuff that we were
doing so that it wasn't viewedas like basic R&D type stuff in
(02:09):
the budget and then thereforeget cut because it wasn't ready
for it wasn't viewed as likeready to actually move the
needle.
So what we focus on on theadvanced manufacturing side is
how do we go get to, how do wego support the one plus two when
it was the submarine industrialbase?
Caleb Ayers (02:28):
And those are just for clarity.
Those are two different classesof submarine that we're trying
to.
You all are trying to produceone of each or say the names
again.
Jesse Geisbert (02:38):
So the one plus two phrase comes from one
Columbia to Virginia per year,which is what we've currently by
26,.
Right, which is when we getinto that steady state
production.
But it's really more than thatfor submarine industrial base.
It was really one Columbia, twoVirginias, plus AUKUS, plus
sustainment.
(02:58):
And while we're at it, at theEB, newport News Primes, what
are they also touching?
They're also touching carriersand we have to, like I said,
sustain it and make sure we hadthe fleet.
So it quickly became this bigpicture.
But at the end of the day itwas how do we use technology in
(03:19):
the pillar that we work in to gohelp drive the 1 plus 2 mission
?
That got additional when werealized the amount of scope and
work that we needed to go dowas still above and beyond some
of the funding.
Our leadership was able to goget even more additional funding
, even more unprecedented amountof funds, which was great, to
go help move the needle.
And that's when some of theleadership said, hey, the
(03:42):
submarine industrial base isdoing these great things.
What about the other, you know,aspects of the Navy?
What about the combatants?
What about the auxiliaries?
What about our aviationdepartment?
What about munitions?
Right, it's.
How do we go help?
How do we go help do everythingthe submarine industrial base
is doing successfully and applythat across the board?
(04:03):
So that's where we transitionedfrom the SIB to the MIB and the
MIB was, I think, officiallystood up September of this year
September 2024, with thatmission of looking across the
maritime industrial base.
So doing everything we weredoing for the 1 plus 2 mission
but for across the maritimeindustrial base and leveraging
(04:23):
all the success from the MIB.
We carried pretty much the samepillars and added a couple more
.
So it's still workforce, it'sstill advanced manufacturing,
it's still supply chain, there'sstill infrastructure, and so
our mission, I guess, today iscarrying forward everything we
did on the submarine industrialbase, is carrying forward
(04:45):
everything we did on thesubmarine industrial base.
How do we go get that readinessfor our Navy at large to go do
the missions that it needs to do?
Aaron Wiest (04:51):
I'd love to take a crack at that question as well.
Sure, yeah, Reading the newslast night was a little bit
sobering.
The Biden administrationauthorized Ukraine to use some
of the munitions we've providedthem for deeper attacks against
Russia, and Russia has changedtheir nuclear posture and
(05:14):
threatened retaliation.
And the submarine service iscalled the silent service
because for what?
70 years now, we've maintainedpeace through power.
There is probably most of youhave heard of mutually assured
destruction.
It's a terrifying concept, aspowers across the world with
(05:35):
nuclear weapons truly have theability to wipe out life.
And so by maintainingsubmarines which have that
ability those are the Columbiaclass and the Ohio class to
retaliate, protect us in theevent of a strike, we basically
de-escalate that danger becausenobody wants to risk that.
(05:57):
The Virginia class are theattack submarines, and then
we've got the entire surfacefleet that allows us to forward,
project power.
And so the maritime industrialbase is around to ensure that we
have the capabilities we needanywhere on the planet and that
we can provide them with ourshipbuilders, with the workforce
(06:18):
, our sub-tier suppliers, withthe equipment and the base
materials that they needcastings, forgings, additively
manufactured material, machinedparts, non-destructive testing.
We're trying to ensure that ourindustrial base remains vibrant
, so that we can deter thoseaggressions.
Caleb Ayers (06:36):
Thank you both for that great overview of sort of
what you guys do and where youguys came from, and then Aaron
for bringing it back to why thatmatters.
I mean, that was going to beone of my questions.
Aaron Wiest (06:45):
It's a scary time right now, no longer need to ask
that question.
Caleb Ayers (06:48):
Tell me a little bit about big picture, some of
the technology development thatyou all are working with in
advanced manufacturing.
Jesse Geisbert (06:55):
So advanced manufacturing on our program, we
basically split it into threemain pillars.
One is additive manufacturing.
I would say it's all under theumbrella of Industry 4.0.
But where we started, additivemanufacturing was the clear
front runner and that's whatAaron manages the additive
manufacturing program.
(07:17):
What we're trying to do, Iwould say two main drivers is
material availability ensurematerial is available.
Drivers is materialavailability ensure material is
available and augment andsupport the workforce.
And when you can do those twothings, then you can support
on-time delivery of components.
And so our portfolio is brokendown into three main sections
(07:37):
additive manufacturing, eachwith a series of additional
projects and programs underAaron, non-destructive testing
and industry all the rest ofindustry 4.0, but we basically
called that one industry 4.0.
And so each one of those threeprograms has a series of
programs and projects under itagain that all go to support
(07:59):
material availability, workforceaugmentation for on-time
delivery.
Caleb Ayers (08:03):
Jason I'm going to bring you in now.
Can you give kind of abig-picture overview of how here
at IALR we're partnering withthe Maritime Industrial Base and
also I mean I know ourpartnership goes to the Navy
beyond just the MaritimeIndustrial Base.
So kind of talk about some ofthose legs of that partnership.
Jason Wells (08:24):
Jesse had a perfect segue into this.
A lot of our initiatives hereon campus, here at the Institute
, aligned extremely well withthe initiatives that were going
on simultaneously within the SIB, which has become the MIB.
So here on campus, you know,and here in Danville, we were
looking to recreate ourselves,rebuild ourselves to a bit as a
(08:47):
community, and we saw our pathsthere being technology and
workforce development.
So we had a lot of thoseefforts already in place,
already in motion for the last10, 15 years of looking how can
we build on creating world-classskilled labor and realizing
that you know, for every oneengineer you have, you have to
(09:09):
have a team of doers,technicians, that are out there
actually making parts, growingparts, welding parts, inspecting
parts, and then also thebuilding we're in right now.
The CMA was to focus in ontechnology implementation to
help rise or help elevateindustry to meet demands,
(09:30):
production demands, strengthenthe industrial base here in our
region, which now is starting totranslate out nationally with
our alignment and our programswith the Navy and with the
Maritime Industrial Base.
So it was a lot of the thingsthat we had noticed on a
regional level or on a locallevel were the same things that
(09:51):
were being realized nationally.
And when Navy, when IBAS andleaders within the DOD came to
our community and saw that wewere recognizing the same things
on a regional level, they sawan opportunity to leverage some
of the resources that we had putin place some of the time we've
(10:11):
already invested the 10 yearsgetting to that point and saw
that as an opportunity topartner with us here locally and
leverage some of thoseinvestments that we've made here
in the region and locally toreally accelerate some of the
efforts that they were lookingto engage in and those main
connection points I guess wehave with the Navy would be.
Caleb Ayers (10:33):
you want to give a quick breakdown of those?
Yeah, certainly.
Jason Wells (10:36):
So we have really two extremely strong lines of
effort here on campus.
One is on the workforcedevelopment side, which is our
accelerated training and defensemanufacturing program, and the
other is in what ouroptimization center, which we
call the Center forManufacturing Advancement, where
we host and proudly house theAM Center of Excellence project
(10:59):
for the Navy.
So that's what I want to spendthe bulk of our time on today is
the Additive ManufacturingCenter of Excellence.
Caleb Ayers (11:02):
I know Navy, so that's what I want to spend the
bulk of our time on.
Today is the AdditiveManufacturing Center of
Excellence.
I know there's been a lotthat's happened in the last two
years and as that project hasramped up.
So I mean for any of you, tellme a little bit about what that
project is and then kind of,yeah, I guess first we'll start
with kind of what is the mission, what is the focus of that
project, and then we'll get intosome of the success and impact
(11:24):
we're already seeing.
Aaron Wiest (11:25):
I got to be around for the beginning of the AMCOE.
My colleague Larissa, who nowis Jesse's deputy and leads up
the industry 4.0 efforts, helpedwith the kickoff, helped
provide some of the initial Navyguidance for reaching the
initial operating capability,and this was really the
brainchild of the executivedirector of PEOS SBN, that's the
(11:48):
Strategic Systems ProgramOffice.
Did I say that right?
Strategic Submarines ProgramOffice?
Sorry, and we needed a centerthat would kind of be the nexus
of additive integration acrossthe country, a place where
commercial vendors could comeand get the help and training
(12:10):
and mentorship to basically beable to meet all of the Navy
requirements.
A place where the additive isnew.
There are still things we'relearning in that manufacturing
space.
So the first time you make apart you're likely to run into
some issues and the COE waswilling to stand up and take it
on the chin with some of thoseearly issues.
(12:31):
Get through that, figure outbest practices and be able to
push that out to the industrialbase through technical data
packages.
Also be willing to house alibrary of those technical data
packages that in traditionalthought patterns are like a
casting mold would be placed ata foundry somewhere and every
(12:54):
time you need to get that part,you need to go to that foundry
because that's where youinvested the millions of dollars
for the casting mold.
When you move to a digitalparadigm and you have a digital
casting mold or an additive datafile that allows you to use a
3D printer and manufacture theshape that you need that will
(13:14):
then later go throughvalue-added processing, the COE
gets to be the repository ofthose for any of the companies
that wish to join in thatcollaborative network and
support the US Navy.
So the Center of Excellence hada whole lot of really valuable
elements that we needed toaccelerate additive
(13:36):
manufacturing within thesubmarine and now maritime
industrial base.
Jesse Geisbert (13:39):
Yeah, well, said I would pile on to that.
There's a saying that I'veheard.
I think it's appropriate.
It's you know, put your moneywhere your mouth is.
And that's what Matt Sermon andWhitney Jones and Admiral
Papano did.
Right, we had talked a talkabout doing additive
manufacturing and other thingsto help the one plus two mission
(14:01):
at the time, and this was aforcing function right of
something to industry that wecould say the Navy is serious
about additive manufacturing andwe're so serious that we've
stood up this capability andsupported this capability.
And anybody in the industrialbase like, go here first, right,
and that was a direct shot tothe shipbuilders that said you
(14:22):
know we are absolutely serious,the Navy, about making
investments outside of theshipbuilders.
That said you know we areabsolutely serious, the Navy,
about making investments outsideof the shipbuilders directly
that go to support, you know,the on-time delivery.
And what better place to put itthan on the ATDM campus right
where you're also getting thattraining.
And so now you have a one-stopshop where it's a landing page
or landing spot for industry tocome learn about additive, get
(14:44):
qualified, understand the Navyrequirements.
You have training, you can getyour parts made.
You know the prototype's not aproduction.
It's never meant for productionrun, but you can get that
prototype made that can then gobe farmed out with additional
people that the AMCOE isconnecting, you know, it's being
that connective tissue for theOEMs and the shipbuilders and
the industrial base at large and, like I said, it's truly the
(15:07):
Navy is serious aboutoperationalizing this capability
and this is the investment wecontinue to make to go support
that delivery.
Jason Wells (15:17):
One of the real perks of having the COE here on
campus in connection with ATDM,as Jesse had just mentioned, is
a lot of times in industryyou'll see technology created
and then companies having tofigure out how to adopt that
technology and then you'll see alag time of how do they get
their staff up to understand andappreciate and adopt that
(15:38):
technology.
The one thing that we'restriving very hard for is to
keep those two programs reallyconnected in the sense of making
sure that the skilled laborthat we are training to is
training to the most relevanttechnology that is being
developed in the COE, so we canminimize that lag time of
(15:59):
adoption and that lag time ofunderstanding and comprehension
at the shop floor level or atthe technician level.
So it's extremely complementaryand I really admire what the
Navy has done in realizing thatand housing these two programs
together on the same campus.
Jesse Geisbert (16:20):
Yeah, jason hit something.
You know.
One of the big things thatwe've talked about is how do you
go minimize the economicbarrier to entry for some of
these companies.
So if you're a company that isstruggling with your current
value chain and you want to gobring in AM, but it's new and
it's novel and you don'tunderstand all the requirements,
well, you have the COE that canstart walking you through some
(16:42):
of the requirements.
And if you want to bring oncapability inside your fence or
work with somebody else, theycan connect you with those
people.
And if you do bring it in yourfence right, there's avenues to
go get supplier developmentfunding or go make a request for
supplier development funding sothat the Navy can support
economically you bringing thatcapability in.
And then you can go gettraining graduates from the ATDM
(17:03):
that have relevant experienceat the ATDM that can go, that
have relevant experience at theAMCOE who can operate those
machines.
And if you have problem parts,the COE can help you develop the
AM data files or the technicaldata packages that will allow
you to do serial production inyour fence and give that back to
you right.
And so if you're a company, theeconomic barrier to entry is
designed to be near zero, to getyou back to on-time delivery of
(17:27):
your component and a supportiveworkforce for those things.
And what better time than everto actually again get into
additive manufacturing at whatshould be a near zero expense to
a company a near zero expenseto a company and I guess that
goes back to the importance ofwhy you all are doing this work.
Caleb Ayers (17:55):
The Navy, the Maritime Industrial Base, these
investments are being made inallowing industrial companies,
private sector companies, theseresources because of how
important this work is, thatthese submarines get produced.
As you were saying, aaron, thisis about global power and
display of power and there'sthere's a lot at stake here.
So that makes sense that it'sthis, this level of investment
going in and this level ofresources available for these
companies.
I mean, I, you know, workingfor the Institute for Advanced
(18:16):
Learning and Research we arefrom from the beginning we've
been all about public-privatepartnerships and working public
sector, private sector, federal,state, local, you know kind of
combining all of those thingsand working with all of those
different entities and bringingthem together.
Talk about the AMCOE and howthe AMCOE is a great example of
(18:38):
what kind of public privatepartnerships can look like.
Aaron Wiest (18:41):
We have an era of unprecedented collaboration.
It is amazing to see companieswilling to jump in, willing to
share some of their IP actuallyto help the industrial base grow
.
The COE ends up getting to kindof cross-pollinate between all
of these companies where theycome in.
(19:02):
Obviously they're very carefulto protect industry IP.
But in that spirit ofcollaboration there will
sometimes be best practiceslearned at one company that are
allowed to be shared withanother company.
That phrase of rising tidelifts all boats is something
we're actually seeing.
In terms of the manufacturing.
We have become a place thatpeople the MIB, the COE, the
(19:30):
industrial base.
It's hard to separate sometimesin who's doing what, but
there's a growing reputationwithin the Navy that when you
have an urgent part that'sneeded and the supply system
can't handle that request forwhatever reason, sometimes a
company's out of business,sometimes there's a huge backlog
, sometimes it's a really hardto cast alloy and the MIB, our
(19:55):
partners in NAVCO5 have anadditive inbox and a request can
be sent saying we can't getthis part.
We have seen examples where theCOE by the next day has been
able to turn on manufacturing.
We've seen other examples wherethey can go out into the
industrial base, which is thepreferred route.
Once a part is well-known, howto manufacture it and get rapid
(20:18):
turnaround times that can savemonths in terms of getting
critical parts that providemission capability back to the
fleet.
Caleb Ayers (20:25):
That's exactly what I want to get to next is sort
of those stories that we've seenso far.
So basically, in the AMCOE, asyou guys have said, it's making
technical data packages and thenbeing able to send those out to
companies is the main idea, sothat suppliers can know how to
effectively use additivemanufacturing to make these
(20:45):
parts Can.
Aaron Wiest (20:48):
I correct that slightly.
Yes, there's absolutely aknow-how for some companies.
There are other companies thatare technical leaders.
They can do this in their sleep, but having that collaborative
environment where they can worktogether provides value.
So there's one elementsometimes where a startup
company might need thattechnical know-how that the COE
(21:10):
can bring.
There's anothercross-pollination thing that I
was mentioning earlier wherethat expertise can be shared
among companies.
But with that mission of the COEto be able to be an interface
between the government and theindustrial base, it's providing
a lot of value, not always themaximum technical know-how, but
(21:31):
often an engineering similaritybetween approaches.
So if you've got a hundredgreat ideas and we're all making
parts in different ways withadditive manufacturing there's
enough variability you canactually inject uncertainty into
the final product.
And with the COE having atechnical data package here's
the recipe that we used.
We know it works.
(21:52):
That gives us kind of abaseline of if you do it this
way, at least we know it works.
We're willing to learn more onthe back end, but knowing it was
made the same at company A, bor C is a value to the Navy
because we don't have to worrythat some of the innovation that
could make it in throughadditive might actually create
new phases or properties thatcould be detrimental to the end
(22:13):
product.
That's a good way to thinkabout it.
I want to make sure we giveproper credit to the amazing
engineering capabilities in ourindustrial base.
Jason Wells (22:21):
I think one of the things to add on to that that
I've found with the COE projectthat's been very helpful is
having end-to-end capabilitiesbeing able to go from having an
additive part to all the varioussteps in between to actually a
finished component.
It allows us to learn things ateach one of those stages that we
(22:42):
can implement into a morewell-rounded and complete
end-to-end strategy.
As Aaron had mentioned, and Iagree, you know there's
fantastic companies out therewith tremendous technologies but
they may be very focused andsay additive and not completely
understand the impacts that anadditive part have on the
(23:02):
subtractive side of the equation.
When you get a near net shapeon the subtractive side at times
you've got to take intoconsideration where you leave
material, where you leavesupports you know different
things like that that aren'talways intuitive with a more
traditionally cast or forgedpiece of material and grab all
(23:30):
that science and all that dataand be able to collect it is
truly a game changer thatprevents you from hitting speed
bumps along the road if a partis going from one vendor to a
next to get to that finished endpoint.
Aaron Wiest (23:39):
And to add on to what you were saying, we get
some really good scheduleacceleration because you go next
door and you can machine thepart.
You go within the same buildingand you can inspect the part,
make sure it hits thedimensional tolerances, and so
there's a really rapid loop.
The Marine Corps have adoctrine Observe Orient, decide
Act, uta and that happens soquickly at the COE because part
(24:04):
comes in, you got the modelers,then it gets printed.
You got the modelers, then itgets printed, you got the
machinists, then it needs to getinspected.
And all of that can happen in areally quick turnaround time so
that when there are inevitablyhiccups in a new manufacturing
process, those aren't taking youmonths to figure out.
They could be taking hours todays.
Caleb Ayers (24:24):
So let's talk about some of those success stories
we've seen so far, and some ofas much, as much detail as we
can about I know I've heard justyou know, word of mouth, some,
some stories of you know shipsbeing delayed, submarines that
would have been delayed if notfor for the work happening here.
So as as many stories as we canand share and talk about with
that I would, we would love tohear them I think I'll start
(24:45):
with the first one.
Aaron Wiest (24:46):
It actually happened twice.
The helo hanger door bracket is, in my very limited
understanding, it seemsbasically like that sensor on
your garage door that allows youto know there's nothing in the
path of the door that's going toopen and close.
And you've got to have thissensor in place for the
helicopter door to open andclose on our destroyers.
(25:09):
This little bracket made out of316 stainless steel not
available, going to delay adestroyer by months and prevent
it from going out to do itsmission.
Coe gets called.
I think the first one wasbefore 4th of July, was it no?
Jesse Geisbert (25:26):
before Christmas December 19th,
december 19th.
Aaron Wiest (25:29):
And COE turned it around over the Christmas and
New Year's holidays.
I think 19 days was theturnaround time because of
printing and machining andinspection and all the
capabilities that were in onehouse and an incredibly
dedicated workforce to be ableto get that destroyer back out
to its mission and let thehelicopter door do its job.
(25:51):
And it's crazy to think that apart that small could actually
impact a billion-dollar asset.
Yeah, something huge, hundredsof millions at a minimum, and it
happened again right before 4thof July.
So within this six orseven-month period, two of these
were needed.
The TDP was already developed.
(26:11):
The second turnaround was howlong?
13 days 13 days.
Caleb Ayers (26:14):
So we and you said we would be talking about months
if it was yes.
Jesse Geisbert (26:18):
Yeah, that part in particular is interesting is
part of the helo hangar doorassembly.
That's considered part of thatmassive assembly that's on the
boat and so you can't buy thehelo hangar door bracket in the
supply system, which is one ofthe other challenges, and so
they had engaged the oem thatsaid, like what's the turnaround
time for this?
(26:39):
You know this sub component inthe component that we purchased
off the helo hangar door.
You know system and that'swhere it was.
You know months, months on,months.
It was an indeterminate amountof time.
And that puts the decision tothe fleet of whether they send a
destroyer out without thatoperational capability, which is
bad, where they wait for thatcomponent to actually show up,
(27:00):
or they come up with some otherworkaround.
But the point is that the COEwas there, ready to execute in
an unprecedented amount of time.
Right, like no, I don't thinkanybody thought it would
actually work, and it wasn'tjust printing, it was working
with you know this collaborationthat Aaron was talking about,
it was working with Philadelphiato say like, okay, we're going
(27:21):
to build this mock-up and getthat tested out.
Does it work?
What adjustments do we need tomake?
Okay, we've made theadjustments.
Now we hit print right, andthat was 19 days, and part of
that 19 days, if I rememberright is because it had to be
sent off-site for heat treatbefore it came back.
Well, that's one of the reasonswhy we made an investment into
heat treat capabilities here atthe COE.
(27:42):
To further, you know, this ideaof everything can happen under
one roof, this verticallyintegrated facility, so that
it's it's I don't remember OTA,right, it's, it's, it's right.
Here in this building you canmake almost every decision and
knowledge point that you have tobefore you say, yep, that
part's good.
We've talked about the, I thinksome of the only additional
(28:03):
capabilities we've talked about.
I don't think if we've, I don'tthink we've rotted up to them,
but it's like how do we getadditional testing, like
pressure testing and hydrotesting?
If you guys wanted to have thathere, because that's some of the
common requirements on thecomponents that we go forward
through.
Sometimes you need the wholeassembly in order to do that, so
it may or may not make sense toadd that capability here.
But going back to the win, yeah, 19 days was a record.
(28:28):
Nobody thought was possible.
And then the COE beat that thesecond time around in 13 days
over both holidays whileshipping the component out for
heat treat that they couldn'tcontrol here in the building.
So it's just impressive Twicein the same year, like a
destroyer, two differentdestroyers went out and like
were able to maintain theirmission because of the COE.
Jason Wells (28:49):
The third time will be even faster now that we have
heat treats Exactly Well thebenefit I would say.
Jesse Geisbert (28:53):
The other benefit is the realization that,
hey, this as the earlierdestroyers may get more weather
damage on this component.
Like this component, thissub-assembly component, may fail
more and more.
So we took this component andconverted it into a procurable
item in the stock system.
So the the COE led the theability for the industrial base
(29:17):
now to go buy this component sothat the COE doesn't have to be
on the hook for serialproduction.
Right, the whole mission is totransfer that to the industrial
base so that the industrial basecan support, like it needs to
support, the supply system.
And now, because of the COE, wehave a part that has a
technical data package or an AMdata file that now has a stock
(29:37):
number system or should very,very close to having a stock
system number that can beprocured.
Navsup or DLA can actually gobuy this now in the industrial
base.
Aaron Wiest (29:46):
And imagine that scenario 13 days could look like
a really long time.
We've got, I think, threeactivated suppliers, basically
three companies that have gonethrough the process to prove to
the Navy that they've met thetech pub requirements.
They've got all of theengineering and technical
prowess to provide good partsrepeatedly.
I think there are anothersomething like 10 companies in
(30:09):
the queue right now working withthe COE.
But imagine a future statewhere we've got companies in
every state.
That data file exists, whetherwe need the part in Yokosuka,
japan, or Puget Sound or NorfolkNaval Shipyard, we will
hopefully have an activatedsupplier nearby with the right
(30:29):
alloy already sitting in themachine so that when the call
comes in, that data file getssent to the, to the 3d printing
company next door to theshipyard, and the part could be
delivered the next day.
That's the kind of dispersedmanufacturing and this actually
happened in world war ii.
There's this wonderful book,freedom's forge.
If you haven't had a chance toread it, highly recommend it.
(30:51):
But basically there were sewingclubs across the country where
people would sew the parachutes.
We distributed manufacturing insuch an incredible way because
there were jobs that could bedone at the point of need and 3D
printing provides a modern,technologically enhanced way of
doing that distributedmanufacturing, where a part that
(31:15):
can impact a mission can beproduced in the small.
Who knows?
It could be a small businesslocated ideally next to the
shipyard or regional maintenancecenter where the asset needs
repair.
And then, thanks to our AMAfloat program, we are having 3D
(31:35):
printers actually put on theships that can do this, not even
in a land-based location.
So there's really a recognitionwithin the Navy that additive
manufacturing can provide somecritical capability to the
warfighter, and the COE is avery important piece of that,
jason, you want to give a quickoverview of NASAM, since he
(31:57):
mentioned the ships andsubmarines?
Jason Wells (31:59):
Sure, so we started ATDM.
The accelerated trainingprogram that we have really is
primarily focused on fiveskilled paths machining, welding
, fabricating, additivemanufacturing, non-destructive
testing and quality metrology.
But out of the recognition onthe additive side and the growth
(32:23):
of the additive side and, asAaron just mentioned, putting
some of the printers onto shipsand onto bases and various
repair centers within themilitary complex, they recognize
the need to skill up some oftheir active duty sailors and
(32:44):
Marines.
So we've spun off a programthat is the Naval Air.
Right now it's identified toNaval Air but it's an additive
manufacturing training programwe call NASAM.
It's a six-week condensedprogram that's heavily focused
(33:05):
for those particular sailors,active-duty sailors and Marines
that come here to get trainingspecific on their equipment.
Curriculum is set by them butwe help facilitate the
curriculum and the education,the training, and make sure that
the comprehension is there andafter that six-week program they
(33:26):
return back to their assignedpost and then utilize those
skills to help support ourmilitary efforts.
That is now in its second year.
We've had six cohorts comethrough.
We've graduated 40 active dutysailors and Marines.
We have another cohort ready tograduate in December and we're
(33:49):
excited to continue to see thatprogram grow, the success of
that program now has NAVSEA andsome other folks also interested
in seeing how they can takeadvantage of allowing us to
facilitate some of that trainingefforts.
Caleb Ayers (34:05):
At the beginning of this we were talking about the
idea of all of this being on onecampus and you know it made
sense that you know that theNavy looked at what was
happening with.
Well, I guess the Navy wasinvolved in putting ATDM here to
begin with and, you know,accelerated training and defense
manufacturing on the workforceside, but then also deciding we
want the additive manufacturingtechnology development happening
there too and then having youknow, now with NASAM as well,
(34:28):
more workforce programsspecifically for those active
duty sailors and Marines.
It's just cool to see all thedifferent things happening on
the same campus in partnershipwith the Navy.
I know, jason, last time youwere on the podcast we talked
about that like why in the worldis the Navy investing so much
in Danville and like it's not aplace you would think of for the
US Navy to be.
But it's really cool to seekind of all of this coming
(34:49):
together and how each thingconnects and supports the other
ones.
Jason Wells (34:54):
It truly is and you know it continues to evolve and
grow in very positivedirections.
But I think you know one of thethings we hear why Danville a
lot, and you know, as wementioned, about the, you know,
leveraging some of our existingresources and infrastructure
that we had started to put intoplace.
But you know it's a.
(35:14):
What we're dealing with is isit's a national situation, so it
doesn't need to be justDanville, you know, and it
doesn't need to be just near asea, near a port.
It's certainly something thatneeds to be a national presence.
Jesse Geisbert (35:31):
I think one of the things you know we've talked
about we had the questionearlier about public private
partnerships I think the COEscreated a model right that we
should be replicating, and theCOE, like we talked about, was
never meant for production.
But there's nothing that youknow prevents us from creating
this same model, using apublic-private partnership for
(35:52):
production intended forproduction.
And I think you know one of thethings that we've championed I
know I championed with the COEis, hey, go to the COE and see
what they've done and understandtheir capabilities, because
that's what we need.
You know, like, what stops usfrom getting something like the
COE outside of every shipyard?
Right, that's intended forproduction, not the single data
(36:13):
file, right, and all theregional maintenance centers.
And then, if you expand to theMIB, right, what about these?
You know the private shipyardsthat are servicing the boats.
How do we go?
Take you know what's in thisbuilding and scale that, because
you know I'll do another nodback to a demand study that was
completed this year.
In order to meet the potentialdemand that's coming right, we
(36:39):
need hundreds of printers, whichalso means we need hundreds of
skilled labor that's going to gooperate those, which means we
need hundreds of inspectors,which means we need hundreds of
machinists.
And so if you go and you justtake what capability exists here
, that to me is like a rinse,wash and repeat model.
Right, if we get a betterprojection on what the demand is
(37:00):
which, like we, navy don'tcontrol, which is a very hard
part but if we had a betterhandle of what we think that
demand could be, this center isa model that should be repeated
rigorously, like at multipleplaces around the country, so
that, like Aaron was talkingabout this distributed
manufacturing approach, you know, a Pac-Norwest boat doesn't
(37:22):
have to necessarily come to theCOE for that first article
production part.
That's then going to, you know,an AM as a service provider.
There's production capabilitylike right outside of
Pac-Norwest right, the samething in San Diego and the same
thing in Florida and the samething in Massachusetts, right?
So this to me, this buildingrepresents, like I keep saying
(37:45):
it, a model to be repeated andthat's, I think, a testament to
how well this facility wasthought out and what
capabilities were here, becausewhen you go and you look at, hey
, in one building I can get 95%of the way through my value
stream of producing a component.
That's pretty impressive.
And that doesn't have to go out.
You don't have to outsource anyof that.
(38:06):
That's pretty impressive.
Jason Wells (38:08):
I love to hear him say that, because here at the
Institute, our mission is to bea catalyst for transformation.
Initially it started out aregional catalyst for
transformation and now it'sbecoming a national catalyst for
transformation.
And I say that to say that weare very open as an institute.
(38:30):
One of the things I'm proud ofof sharing the secret sauce with
other communities, with otherinstitutions, with other areas
where we can replicate this andwhere we can expand upon this
and scale this to a nationallevel, because we do fully
support the mission and we'reproud to be a part of that
(38:51):
mission, but we also know thatit takes the whole nation.
So we have proudly hosted manyevents and many people from
different communities, fromdifferent states and different
organizations to come here seewhat we're doing, explain to
them what we've done in order toget to this point and be an
active part in trying to helpother communities replicate this
(39:14):
, because that is our mission isto be a catalyst for
transformation.
Jesse Geisbert (39:18):
Different countries too.
Jason Wells (39:20):
Yeah, good point, I mean, we have used the COE as
an example.
Jesse Geisbert (39:23):
Hey, australia, right, you should.
You know, this is somethingthat you should be looking at
and considering.
Which they've come here,different territories, right,
like when we talk about puttingthis kind of capability in Guam.
It's like, hey, come look atthe COE Like, this is, this is
what you need if you're going tobe successful.
Jason Wells (39:41):
Yeah, we just had five ATDM students that went
through ATDM, came over the COEto understand it and went back
to Guam.
So you know very much so.
Caleb Ayers (39:51):
I would like, before we get out of here, I
want to hear one more greatstory of a ship or submarine or
destroyer, Something that wassomething where production would
have caused a major delay andthe COE was able to step in and
help.
Jesse Geisbert (40:04):
I'll make a recommendation, but I think
Aaron can field it.
So I would recommend the trashdisposal unit.
Aaron Wiest (40:08):
Oh yeah, we want to go super unglamorous.
Believe it or not, even whenyou're living under the water
for weeks at a time, yougenerate trash.
That trash has got to gosomewhere.
So there is a trash disposalunit on a submarine and it is
really integral.
You got to be able to shootthat trash overboard.
There's some pretty criticalcomponents that have to get in
(40:31):
there and one of them, the trashdisposal unit liner, gets
basically welded into a largerassembly and you can't open it
back up, you can't get the linerout.
It is a critical step, eventhough it's a very unglamorous
sounding part that is necessaryto the manufacturing of a
(40:52):
submarine.
One of our prime shipbuildersare we allowed to say names?
Sure, okay, electric boat.
Newport News are working onthose.
I think this was an electricboat part of the module.
They, this prime shipbuilder,could not proceed without the
casting.
They'd had six of the castingsthat had all failed.
It's a very hard to cast alloy,somewhat complex part and they
(41:17):
didn't have a path forward,which meant stalled submarine
construction for one piece.
And the COE this is the onewhere the request comes in.
It gets modeled by the next day.
They're printing.
Do you remember how long it wasbefore the prototype was done.
Jesse Geisbert (41:33):
I think it was a total of nine days.
Aaron Wiest (41:35):
It was some crazy turnaround time for a part that
has, I think, a year plus leadtime, which had already elapsed,
and then all of the ones in thewarehouse were defective, and
so the COE was able to turn thisaround once again.
That looped manufacturing wherehere's what we've got Is this
prototype okay?
Here's the modifications tomake.
(41:56):
Here's how we get to the rightpart, and I think a finished one
is now with the shipbuilder,and submarine construction can
resume.
Jesse Geisbert (42:05):
Yeah, that's insane If you think about a
single part holding up.
So, the way you know theshipbuilders do production, it's
in, it's a parallel production,right, a staggered production.
And so you have a unit now Ithink it was 805, that's, that
is stopped, which means, likeeverything else is very quickly
going to catch up and bottleneckbehind that, because the and
(42:27):
the way they do the sequenceconstruction right, like they
all have a trash disposal unitright in there, and so if you
don't get 805 fixed, you're notgoing to jump.
806 isn't going to jump, 805,right, 807 is not going to jump.
Them all.
They all need that unit.
And, like aaron said, six weredelivered, six were defective
and six were rejected.
And this component is so bigthat your alternatives aren't.
(42:49):
You know, sometimes you'llyou'll hear people getting
creative like, oh, I'll hog,I'll get a billet and I'll hog
this part out of a billet, butbut this unit is so this
component is so big that that'snot an alternative.
And so, thankfully, right, likewho's there, I would say, to
save the day, let's see who heis.
Literally.
You know, I was talking withPhil yesterday and he said you
(43:12):
know that they got the call.
It's like you know you shouldmake a skit out of it, right?
They got the call in a parkinglot and within three hours the
part had started printing, right, or they had the model
confirmed right, and it was justlike.
That was the power of acollaboration, the passion, I
would say, of the people here atthe COE.
And then they worked threeshifts, you know, around the
(43:35):
clock, right, to get this partproduced in record time, a part
that they had never made before,a part that was modeled in like
three hours, right, the buildstrategy, how you're going to go
do it.
And you know just that, like,head down, let's go, we're going
to go get this part printed anddelivered back to the shipyard
(43:56):
so that the shipyard can resumemachining operations and
actually keep full-scalesubmarine production going.
Like one part in nine days.
The coe turned that around andand turned that around to where
that, when successful, you knowthat opened up the aperture to
for the shipbuilder to say, okay, like, what are my backup
(44:17):
options if I don't want to keeprelying on a casting right, or
if I want to rely on a casting,but I also want to have this
like parallel path to support sothat then opened their I would
say aperture to say, okay, we'regoing to now go contract this
component out to go be procured.
And if it wasn't for the COE,like everything, you know what's
(44:43):
the impact of that?
Right, and you know that's a weoften get challenged on metrics
, right, like what's the impactof holding up a series of hulls
that are in parallelconstruction?
Like, can you quantify that?
Let's try.
Aaron Wiest (44:53):
Let's look at the impact here.
One of them is Ohio-classsubmarines need to retire Every
day.
A Columbia is late, is relyingon a very amazingly capable
asset but a 40-year-old asset tokeep doing its mission.
When a Columbia gets out, itbrings brand-new capability,
(45:14):
brand-new deterrence, brandbrand new safety to the world.
When you Google the cost of aColumbia submarine, we are
investing a lot in these reallyvaluable assets.
If you think that they've got a30- 40-year lifetime divide by
that cost, we're looking at avalue to the American taxpayer
of somewhere in the neighborhoodof a million dollars a day for
these assets, of somewhere inthe neighborhood of a million
(45:36):
dollars a day for these assetsEvery day.
That that's delayed, just ineconomic terms, is value that
we're losing out on as ataxpayer.
So, whether it's world safetyor whether it's getting your tax
dollars at work a day earlier,those components being delayed
make a big difference and have ahigh value to our nation and to
our Navy.
May I ask a?
Jason Wells (45:53):
question.
You mentioned Ohio class andthe age of that particular class
.
Do you see value in what we'redoing with the COE in in helping
sustain?
Uh, you know that class as well.
You know further because I haveto assume, um, as things start
to age out, you also find thatparts may be discontinued or no
(46:16):
longer available, and you know,so that may be an opportunity to
do some reverse engineering, isthat?
Is that also a credible use ofthe COE.
Aaron Wiest (46:26):
It is Just we'd given you an example of surface
ship sustainment.
There are multiple examples ofsubmarine sustainment, but
you're going to have to inviteus back to hear those.
Jesse Geisbert (46:37):
Unless Jesse wants to share.
Well, the quick one is 100%.
So the Michigan project is agreat example.
It's a higher class, it's a BNthat was converted to a GN boat,
but the AMCOE again.
If you ask for three examples,like, I think, helo, hangar door
, trash disposal unit, the thirdone I would say is the Michigan
tailpiece, right.
And so we have a series.
(46:59):
Long story short.
We were able to hook up withPuget Sound and the Project
Super out there who has the USSMichigan coming into an extended
availability in FY or in 2025,calendar year 2025.
And we said here's a series ofcomponents.
One of those are trim and drainvalves and of those trim and
(47:22):
drain valves, the bodies and thetailpiece are always corroded
because of their.
You know what they experienceoperationally, and so they know
that they're going to have to dosome level of repair.
And we said, hey, am can comehelp.
Instead of planning someunknown timeline associated with
those repairs or relying on thestock system, which currently
(47:45):
doesn't have anything available,or relying on a rolling
cannibalization list from theother shipyards to go replace
those, we can deliver aready-for-install asset.
The tailpiece is one of thosecomponents in there and we
leverage the COE to go print atailpiece in laser powder bed
(48:07):
fusion to show it can be doneand that we can transfer.
At the same time they printedanother one in wire arc DED and
at the same time they printed athird one on a different machine
in wire arc DED, and at thesame time they printed a third
one on a different machine inwire arc DED, and so in in one
place.
Now, yet again, we've createdtwo different AM data files that
can go be distributed if wewant, or like when, when this
(48:28):
part gets converted into aprocurable item in the stock
system.
Well, now the AMCC has helpedopen the aperture even further.
Right, because we're notvendor-locked into just powder
bed companies, we're not justisolated to DED companies.
You can go both and I thinkwe're awaiting the final results
.
But all indications say thathere's now for a single
(48:51):
component that you know theMichigan's 42 years old, so
she's almost at the end, unlessthey keep extending her.
But there's other boats thatare, you know, 20 years old or I
don't remember when the lastOhio was commissioned and
delivered.
But, point being like, the Ohioclass will be around still for
quite a considerable amount oftime and these trim and drain
valves will constantly needrepair.
(49:12):
And now, through the COE andthrough you know the efforts
that we've pushed here's onecomponent that is a pull-through
, frankly, on Columbia classright.
So we know it's used on Ohio's,we know it's used on Columbia.
There's a very similarcomponent used on Virginia that
we can now go also create thetechnical data package for.
That can go be procured in thestock system as a standalone
(49:33):
component as opposed to thewhole assembly.
So it's enabling anybody who'sdoing maintenance and repair you
have another tool in your toolchest.
If you're an OEM, you can usethe same thing to support a
faster on-time delivery of yourcomponent.
And so to me it's a win-win-win, all enabled by the COE being
(49:55):
here doing that work.
Jason Wells (49:57):
Excellent, I could listen to these stories all day.
Yeah, no, this is awesome.
Caleb Ayers (50:01):
Yeah, I think, aaron, you're right, we've got
to invite you guys back.
Jason Wells (50:04):
Yeah, because I want to geek out with Aaron on
material science.
Jesse Geisbert (50:08):
That one might be over my head.
Be careful.
Caleb Ayers (50:12):
Before we go I know I mentioned the idea when we
talked a little bit about theidea of public-private
partnerships can we kind of givean overview real quick of the
different organizations involvedin the AMCOE and then we'll
wrap up with whatever otherparting thoughts you guys would
want to share.
Jesse Geisbert (50:27):
Yeah.
So to my I hope I don't messany of this up but to my
knowledge, the COE is reallycool because it's a consortium
of partners, right.
So we obviously have Austaldoing the oversight, the
management of it, but then wehave Phillips Federal, you have
CCAM, industrial InspectionAnalysis I think that's II's
(50:52):
acronym, fast Tech, and it'sreally, you know, hopefully I
don't know if I've missed any ofthe contorted apartment, I know
I've missed them Spectrum,right.
The point being it's I shouldmemorize the banner it's an
impressive amount of Meditoyahelped support us on the
(51:17):
metrology side.
Yeah, it's an impressive amountof people that have all come
together recognizing that.
You know, in that collaborativeenvironment with, you know, I
would say, support and fundingfrom the government in that
public-private partnership, thatthat collaborative environment
is what enables the win, right,like there's not a standalone.
Hey, the government's going towrite a contract with Austal and
a separate contract withPhillips, and it's like you
would never get there, you wouldnever get this kind of
collaboration and power andspeed.
And so the COE, having thatconsortium of partners that
(51:40):
they're bringing in, plus thecontinued, you know, I would say
, support and investment fromthe government, enables this
public private partnership to besuccessful.
Jason Wells (51:51):
He's absolutely correct, and I think the nice
thing about having a consortiumof partners also is that those
partners also bring some outsideperspectives as well.
Phillips, for example, hasdivisions all across in the
(52:22):
machining side of the world, inthe additive side of the world.
They're dealing with customersand you know, supplying
equipment to customers all overand have a lot of insights and
lessons learned that they bringto the table, as well as IIA and
Meditoya and you know.
So it's that collaboration alsobrings in a lot of good
different perspectives as well.
Caleb Ayers (52:31):
That's all the questions I have.
I think this is a really coolproject.
I've enjoyed hearing about itfrom you guys because I've heard
, like, basically the idea oftechnical data packages, that's
pretty much it and then like alittle bit of those
word-of-mouth stories of like,oh, there was a ship that would
have been delayed, except wemade a part, like that's the
extent of what I had heard.
So, hearing all of thisfirsthand Navy and for these
(52:55):
ships and submarines and theirsuppliers, and as you said,
aaron, I mean it goes to, I mean, if you want to think about it
like national security, that'sobviously the main point, but I
mean it goes back to economicsand tax dollars too, if you want
to think about it that way,that this place is making a
difference and that's reallycool to.
It's really cool for us to beable to host that on our campus
and be a partner in that, andwe're, yeah, I just think this
(53:16):
is super cool.
So is there anything?
Jesse Geisbert (53:18):
else.
I just want to say thanks.
Like we don't do a good enoughjob, I would say, trying to show
, so we broadcast these wins,you know all the way up to
ASNRDA on our, you know ourweekly and biweekly updates, but
we don't do probably a goodenough job of advertising at
large, right, all of these wins,because you know, frankly, it's
(53:38):
just so fast.
Right Like every, there'salways these issues that need
these solutions.
So I think this podcast and youknow, getting this kind of word
of mouth out is great, and so Iwould just say thanks for the
opportunity to have yet anotherplatform to share those kind of
wins, opportunity to have yetanother platform to share those
kind of wins.
Aaron Wiest (53:58):
We'd love to come back when you know we rinse wash
repeat this and keepbroadcasting all the wins that
the COE is providing.
Yeah, there's also a piece ofask not what your country can do
for you, but what you can dofor your country.
We are grateful to ourwarfighters because they give up
so much in service of theircountry.
There's a lot that machinistsand 3D printer technicians and
(54:22):
inspectors can give for theircountry too.
And when I think about peoplesacrificing holidays to serve
their country, missing out ontime with their family in those
precious moments because theysee a mission and they realize
that they have a part in ournational security and in keeping
(54:45):
our naval fleet doing its jobto keep us and the world safe,
it really touches me.
It's part of why I'm proud to dothe job that I do.
You don't want me to have aweapon.
I got terrible eyes, I can'tshoot straight, but I do have a
good brain and people who havegood machining skills, people
who have good abilities to makethings, have a way they can
(55:10):
serve their country, and itdoesn't have to be in uniform
and it can be at home, it can beat the workplace, and we're
really grateful to the hard workyou're doing here, to all of
the people you're training inservice of our nation.
Thank you, thank you Well saidThank you guys.
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