March 3, 2025 • 30 mins
This episode features Daniel Hyler and Tim Holland—two graduates turned additive manufacturing instructors with the Accelerated Training in Defense Manufacturing (ATDM) program. Hear them discuss lessons they picked up along the way, plus real-world applications of additive manufacturing in today’s job market.
Listen in as they discuss:
- Jumping from Student to Instructor: How they found their calling in the classroom.
- The ‘Light Bulb’ Moment: Why watching a student finally “get it” is so rewarding.
- Industry Readiness: Helping companies embrace the possibilities of 3D printing.
- Career Pathways: Creating your own opportunities in an evolving field.
The Institute for Advanced Learning and Research serves as a regional catalyst for economic transformation in Southern Virginia. Our services, programs and offerings are diverse, impactful and far reaching.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caleb Ayers (00:09):
All right, welcome to another episode of Inside
IALR.
Thanks for joining us today.
So we have done a lot ofepisodes that involve ATDM, our
Accelerated Training and DefenseManufacturing Program.
We've done a lot of episodesthat involve that program one
way or another.
And here we are with anotherepisode that involves ATDM.
So we have, I think, a prettycool story that we have two
(00:31):
instructors in the additivemanufacturing program for ATDM
that are actually graduates ofATDM.
So they went through theprogram, went out in industry,
have come back and worked theirway up and are now instructing
students coming through.
We have Hyler and and TimHolland who are both additive
manufacturing instructors.
So thank you guys for beinghere.
It's good to be here.
Tell me about how kind of youended up in the ATDM program to
(00:55):
begin with and kind of what wereyour takeaways from that.
Daniel Hyler (00:58):
Well, I had the wonderful pleasure of being part
of the very first CNC programfor ATDM.
Pleasure of being part of thevery first CNC program for ATDM
I was just fresh out of highschool, I'd actually graduated
on a Friday.
I got a call on Saturday thatthere was this program from an
employee within ATDM and theyreached out and said there was
(01:18):
an open slot.
So I decided I'd sign up and Istarted class on Monday.
And then also the pleasure ofbeing part of the first additive
class for ATDM shortly afterthe CNC program was completed.
So it was a wonderful program.
Caleb Ayers (01:35):
You have to tell how you went through it twice.
That seems worth sharing.
Daniel Hyler (01:41):
Well, truthfully, it was before policies were set
in place, so I don't know if weshould go too much in detail on
that, but it was for Fast Tech,so you threw it right.
Yes, so after completing the CNCprogram a local business
actually on site here at IALR,fast Tech they took me on as
(02:06):
kind of an intern to begin withand I moved into an official
part-time job and then theyactually sponsored for me to go
into the additive program withATDM.
I went through the ATDM programduring the mornings and then
went back to work basically afull-time job at nights with
Fast Tech and at the completionof the additive course I went on
(02:27):
to being kind of the leadadditive engineer, kind of on
site, for certain machines thatwere at Fast Tech, and I stayed
there for approximately eightmonths later before coming back
onto the ATDM team Nice.
Caleb Ayers (02:41):
And what about you, Tim?
Tim Holland (02:42):
I initially came here I was industry sponsored.
At the time I was working as amachinist for Norfolk Naval
Shipyard.
Out in Norfolk they prettyregularly send a few of their
either machinists or theirapprentices out here to get
further training, especially onyou know, the CNC machines,
(03:06):
training especially on, you know, the CNC machines.
So they sent me out here to gettrained.
Absolutely fell in love withDanville while I was out here.
I love the nice small town feelof it but it's still a big
(03:28):
enough town that you know youcan still do all the things you
really want to do, you know, andso went through the CNC program
here at ATDM.
I was part of the fifth cohortthrough that program and went
back to the the shipyard afterbut decided I wanted to come
back here after a little whilebecause I enjoyed the area.
I enjoyed the program and whatwe do here and feel it gave me
(03:49):
some more opportunities.
Caleb Ayers (03:51):
And both of you guys started as technicians in
the program and then worked yourway up to instructors.
That's correct, yes, correct.
And both of you guys recentlybecame instructors.
Daniel Hyler (04:01):
So I'm in a little interesting situation.
After being a technician forthe ATDM additive course for
about a year, I actually steppedout of ATDM for another program
here at ILR, the NASAM program,and I was doing that for about
10, 11 months and then ended uptaking a position as the ATDM
additive instructor.
Caleb Ayers (04:21):
And for those who don't know, nasam is also
additive manufacturing just foractive duty Navy personnel.
So still teaching additive.
Just changed audience Right,correct.
So what kind of were your asyou guys were going through the
ATDM program kind of, what wereyour takeaways?
And I mean, I know you wentthrough twice, daniel, but
specifically on the additiveside, what were kind of your big
(04:42):
takeaways from the program?
What were the or wait, you justsaid you went through CNC.
Tim Holland (04:46):
Yeah, I went through CNC as a student.
That's wild.
Caleb Ayers (04:48):
Neither of you went through ATDM, as I mean you
didn't go through ATDM asadditive.
Tim Holland (04:51):
Nope.
So.
So for me it was additive.
Well, 3D printing has been ahuge hobby of mine for well over
a decade, well over a decade.
And so, yeah, when Danielactually transferred over to
(05:12):
NASAM to be the instructor therethat opened up a technician
spot in additive, I went intoour boss's office with a whole
bunch of stuff that I printedout from home and was like I
want to transfer over becausethat's, cnc is where my resume
is at, where my experience is at, but additive is where my
passion is at, and he let mehave the opportunity to go over.
I went over at first on justkind of a trial basis to see how
(05:35):
things went.
Uh, I went over to additive, uh, working with the instructor at
the time, eric, and he gave methe thumbs up and said, yeah, I
got, I got my new technician, sostayed there until uh, uh, he
uh decided to to move up andmove out and, you know, get onto
(05:55):
his own thing.
And uh, so the Institute uhbumped me up to instructor as
well.
So that's how we have two of usnow.
Caleb Ayers (06:03):
Yeah, that's, that's really cool.
What were kind of the thingsthat you learned while you were
in the ATDM program, whether itbe in the CNC machining or the
additive track, that kind ofinfluence how you now teach the
program.
Daniel Hyler (06:17):
I think the main thing that I took away was the
computer-aided design, the CADtraining that was part of that.
So all of the ATDM students inthe additive course they learn a
program called Fusion 360,which allows you to produce in
the computer anything that youcould imagine.
Tim Holland (06:35):
And that was a big help when moving into the
industry position that I was inand then also going in further
to teach that that training wasinstrumental to the progression
that I've made to piggyback offof uh what Daniel said, because
I agree 100% that the CADsoftware, um learning that has
(06:58):
been huge uh, especially for uhthe that you know, after I
graduated, because the CNCinstructor let us get into
Fusion a little bit and dabblewith not just design but also
the CAM side, the computer-aidedmachining side of Fusion 360.
(07:20):
And when I was able to go backto Norfolk Naval I was able to
utilize that a bit, which washuge for me.
There's been many times whereI'm trying to just even
visualize something myself and Ihave to go running over to my
(07:40):
laptop, open up Fusion just so Ican actually put it in there
and be able to see it better onthe screen than it is in my own
imagination, was how much thetraining really tries to align
(08:04):
itself to realistic expectationsof what life is like outside of
the training environment, in anactual shop environment.
You know the students are.
We're expected to clock in andout on time.
You know they actually hold youto your attendance here.
You have to wear all the propersafety gear, you have to check
(08:31):
tools in and out, everythingthat is normal in a regular shop
environment.
So that way hopefully thetransition for somebody who's
coming in, who isn't industrysponsored and doesn't know what
life is like in a shop.
You know that transition toshop life is a lot easier.
Caleb Ayers (08:50):
Yeah, that makes sense and that is a good might
as well structure the program tomatch where the students are
going to after.
So that definitely seems like agood selling point for ATDM.
Tim, you said your hobby isadditive 3D printing.
That's been a hobby of yours for10 years.
I mean, I get the idea, I getthe very basic idea of 3D
printing, but tell me a littlebit about additive manufacturing
(09:12):
on a very basic level and thenkind of walk us through some of
the I guess some of the mainthings that you're teaching,
that you guys are teaching thestudents in these classes about
the actual process of using 3Dprinting to make parts.
Tim Holland (09:26):
Oh, certainly.
So yeah, with 3D printing,obviously you know you're taking
some form of media, whether itbe plastic or metal or composite
material, resins, what have youand you are taking your design.
The software will put it intoessentially just layers, slice
(09:51):
it horizontally, and so eachlayer it will create, and then,
once it's done with that layer,moves up, does the next layer,
over and over and over againuntil you end up with your part.
The really neat thing aboutdoing it with additive versus a
(10:13):
normal subtractive method is youhave a lot less waste.
A lot of times you're able tocreate geometries that may not
be able to be created withsubtractive manufacturing.
Caleb Ayers (10:23):
Explain that a little bit more.
You can make geometries thataren't possible with subtractive
manufacturing.
Explain that a little bit moreyou can make geometries that
aren't possible with subtractivemanufacturing.
Tim Holland (10:28):
That sounds interesting.
So with subtractivemanufacturing, like machining,
if you can't touch it from theoutside, you can't machine it.
So if there's some sort of likeinternal cavity or void or
something on the inside of apart, I have to be able to reach
that from the outside.
I have to be able to get a toolin there from the outside in
(10:49):
order to create that.
Um, whereas with additive,because you're making it layer
by layer by layer, you can havea fully encapsulated void or
pocket or something on theinterior of your print that
can't be reached otherwise.
There are certain geometrieseven on the outside of a part.
(11:12):
If it's a very intricate part,again, if I can't figure out how
to fit this long straight, youknow tool in there to create
that without hitting anotherpart of the material.
I can't make that, then youknow, whereas with additive I
can.
So it's a really for me it's areally exciting technology to
(11:40):
learn and be a part of, becauseI feel like the only thing I'm
limited by is my imagination.
Daniel Hyler (11:47):
To continue off that thought, all of the
intricacies that additivemanufacturing has there's just
the same as any other process.
There's different tricks,hiccups that you're going to
fall into as you go through theprocess, and that's the main
thing that we're teaching thesestudents is how to look out for
those trouble spots in any partand how to overcome them.
(12:09):
That's one of the biggestchallenges.
The biggest hurdles to overcomeis to learn how to think in
that 3D space, being able toovercome those troubles and
figuring out an efficient way toget your end result the way it
should be.
Tim Holland (12:25):
Absolutely.
Another thing that we go overis specifically, which is
essentially what Daniel was justtalking about, is design for
additive.
A lot of geometries or aspectsof parts that they are there
(12:53):
specifically because of themethod that they are made in.
You know, whether you have likean injection molded piece of
plastic, you know they're goingto put certain geometries on
there in order to make it easierto separate from the mold Um or
if they want to have uh lessmaterial, so that way they don't
you know they're not having tomake as an expensive of a part.
(13:14):
You'll have like a big openspace on one side, Whereas with
additive we can vary um the theinside structure of the part to
where we can still have a fullsize part, no weird cutouts or
uh missing bits, but still beable to uh reduce the amount of
(13:38):
plastic and material in there ifit doesn't need it.
So that's another thing you knowthat we teach about is how can
we, how can we break away fromthe norm essentially of making
things and actually design forthe process that we're using?
(13:58):
Because a lot of people,honestly, when they start
getting into additivemanufacturing and 3D printing,
they think it's just CNCsubtractive, but in reverse.
You know we're building up,we're not cutting away, but
there's a lot more to it thanjust that.
Caleb Ayers (14:16):
So that's every.
That's my understanding of whatyou exactly.
What you just said.
When I talk about it's, yeah,subtractive, you're tearing down
, additive, you're building up.
So now I got it, now I'mlearning the more to it.
You know, a few episodes ago wehad a couple of the guys from
the maritime industrial base totalk about the work happening in
the in the CMA, with additivemanufacturing and how they're
basically creating those recipesfor how to do the 3D printing
(14:39):
for these parts.
From your guys' perspective andI think, daniel, you especially
, having worked with NASAM aswell, you saw it from the
active-duty Navy side what areyou guys seeing as far as how is
additive being used in industrytoday and what kinds of parts
are you guys training studentsto be able to go make?
(14:59):
And I mean not specific parts,but like what types of things?
Daniel Hyler (15:04):
Generally now, additive is touching every
industry that's out there,whether it's medical for
implants, or medical for tissuerepair.
There's the actual industrial,mechanical parts that military
is using, aerospace it's allover the place now.
The main thing that additive isbeing used for, especially on
(15:29):
the military side, is for adirect replacement for parts
that they can't actively get now, whether the part was in the
supply chain before and now isno longer being produced, or it
was a part from a really, reallyold manufacturer that's no
longer in business.
Whatever the situation is,they're using additive
manufacturing to reproduce andcopy these parts that they no
(15:49):
longer have access to.
Tim Holland (15:51):
Another thing that I've noticed is you know,
additive is great for rapidprototyping.
Great for rapid prototypingAgain, when I was working back
in Norfolk Naval, like we had aspecific group.
They were the rapid prototypelab.
That's where the couple of 3Dprinters that they did have in
(16:12):
the shipyard at the time, that'swhere they lived, because
anytime you had an idea forsomething and you needed to
quickly try to make that item,that's where you went and those
were the tools that they used.
Think outside the box, try tocome up with something new and
go through iterations, becausenobody's going to have the
(16:44):
perfect answer to the questionright off the bat.
You know you're going to haveto print something out, see if
it breaks.
If it does, okay, how can westop that and go through the
whole process.
Which additive is absolutelyperfect for helping companies do
that?
And then, another way that weare seeing the industry really
(17:08):
embrace additive is in more ofyour exotic materials.
One of the printing methodsthat we have is the Meltio
system, so it prints in metaland when you have a more exotic
metal, say like titanium forexample, if I can print a part
(17:32):
out, that's almost the exactthing you know, because the
printers aren't precise enoughto get it 100% correct, but if I
can print it, say 80% to 90%correct, and then use
traditional machining to get itthe rest of the way, I'm only
(17:53):
wasting.
Maybe.
What would you say, say 5%, 10%, the amount of material versus
normal subtractive methods,which means I don't have half
the money that I spent on thatmaterial going out in the waste
bin.
Now I only have a fraction ofthat cost going out of the waste
(18:14):
bin.
So there's more money in thecompany's pocket.
There's more money, hopefully,in the machinist's pocket, or
the, the company's pocket.
There's more money hopefully in, you know, the, the machinist
pocket, or the, the additivetechnician's pocket, you know,
for the same product.
Caleb Ayers (18:26):
essentially, and I know, yeah, as you said, it's
daniel, it's in every industry,and I know you guys are more
focused on the you knowindustrial part of it and the
you know more more traditionalparts.
You're not work working inmedical or anything like that,
but yeah, you, I know there'swhole rabbit holes, you can go
down with that and all thethings they're trying to.
3d print.
Tim Holland (18:46):
I don't know if we can name drop name brands for
you, but Invisalign braces.
You know what I'm talking about, 3D printed.
They're 3D printed on resinprinters.
Daniel Hyler (18:59):
Did not know that.
And then on the other end ofthe spectrum, 3d printed steaks
like rib eyes Now that you canget.
They're really expensive, butthey're apparently really good.
Caleb Ayers (19:09):
I wish you could see my face listeners um trying
to understand how that works.
Tim Holland (19:15):
So something maybe a bit more, uh, appetizing.
Uh, you can actually get now,um, now, 3d chocolate printers.
They print in chocolate so youcan make some really cool custom
chocolates at home, you know,in all kinds of different shapes
, sizes, and fill it with allkinds of nifty things you want
(19:37):
to make, like a little Easterbunny that when you break you
break it open sprinkles goflying everywhere.
Daniel Hyler (19:42):
you can do that and I've seen the chocolate
printers use quite a bit forcake decorating.
Yep, yep, like little roses orother types of decorations.
Caleb Ayers (19:51):
So when are we going to get some of those in
the atdm lab as soon?
Tim Holland (19:55):
as you buy them.
Caleb Ayers (19:57):
What's y'all's favorite part of being
instructors for this program?
Daniel Hyler (20:00):
So for me personally, I've always enjoyed
helping other people and helpingpeople progress.
That's just something that Ican do every day while I'm here
with ATDM constantly helpingpeople learn new tips, new
tricks, learning new processes,new ways to think about things,
constantly being able to changesomebody's perspective on
(20:22):
something to be able to get ajob done, but even more
efficiently than they would havethought would have been
possible.
That's just something that Ireally enjoy and very, very glad
that I can be able to do thatevery single day.
Tim Holland (20:36):
For me, I would have to say, my favorite part is
the light bulb moment.
When, when I am instructingsomebody and I'm trying to teach
them, like you know, a wholenew process or a whole new way
to think about something, andyou know you can, you can see it
in their eyes where they'retrying to fit these, these
(20:58):
mental puzzle pieces together,and when it all finally does
just kind of click together, youcan, you can see it on their
face when that light bulb goesoff.
That feeling of giving someonethat, when, when that moment
happens, oh, such a greatfeeling.
I love that.
I live for for that.
(21:18):
So, uh, yeah, and then, um, likeDaniel was saying, you know,
helping somebody learn a wholenew skill that you know they can
not just have a job but have acareer out of.
Uh and yeah, I get to go homeknowing like, hey, I helped make
that happen.
And then, on top of it you know, because ideal and not just
(21:41):
additive, but you know, part ofour curriculum is also some
subtractive work as well I getto not only help people better
themselves, but I get to do twoof my favorite things while I'm
doing it, and then, on top ofthat, they pay me money for it.
Caleb Ayers (21:56):
I'm living the life that's my favorite bit Sounds
like you guys got good gigs andit sounds like we got some
passionate instructors in here,so I love it.
I love it.
Um, tim, you just mentioned thelight bulb moment.
I would imagine that's a bigpart of the answer to this next
last question.
But what's what's kind of they'all's goal for every student
(22:19):
that finishes the additivemanufacturing track for ATDM?
What's kind of your goal forthose, for each of those
students who are finishing it?
Tim Holland (22:27):
Additive is still the new kid on the block when it
comes to the industry.
You know companies areinvesting more and more every
day, but there's still a fairamount of companies out there
that haven't even bought into ityet, and so one of the issues
(22:49):
that we've been having isgetting a lot of students out
into industry when there'spotentially not enough jobs to
additive jobs for them to getinto essentially not enough jobs
to additive jobs for them toget into.
One of my goals is to try toinstill enough drive and passion
(23:18):
for it that you know they wantto get out into industry.
They know it's a little bit ofan uphill battle for them
because additive is so new.
It's a little bit of an uphillbattle for them because additive
is so new, but they arehopefully looking forward to
that more than dreading it.
You know, because once morecompanies do get into additive
and do get these things up andrunning.
They're essentially alreadygoing to have the workforce
(23:41):
there.
You know they're going to havethese people working for them
already.
It's just these people arewaiting for the company to catch
up to them and so, yeah,there'll be shoe-ins for, you
know, the higher-up additivespots or they're going to be
able to shine as employees forthese companies, and so that's
(24:05):
not just imparting the actualeducation and knowledge, but for
me that's what I try to do isfind that passion in all of the
students and try to get that togrow.
Daniel Hyler (24:19):
My answer to the question would be very, very
similar to what Tim has said.
The main goal that I see withthese students, that I would
like to see from these students,is to have enough, like Tim
said, drive, initiative and justexcitement for the entire
(24:39):
additive process Enough for themto be able to search for a job
Now, as Tim said, there's notvery many out there right now.
Additive is a slow-growingfield but it's speeding up very
fast New technologies, new typesof processes every day.
I would like to see thesestudents have enough initiative,
(25:00):
enough drive to if they can'tfind a job make a job, whether
they take a job that just has amanufacturing position,
something where they're justdoing CAD design, just being
able to 3D, model things, andthen try to push some industry
(25:21):
or some business into theadditive field to be able to
make that business grow and besuccessful as they grow with
that.
That's just the main thing thatI would like to see out of
every student that comes through.
Caleb Ayers (25:32):
Yeah, no, as you guys were talking about that, I
was thinking about the.
I think we have it somewhere onour website or in some of our,
somewhere on our marketingmaterials, the idea of we're
training the workforce oftomorrow, that idea, and I never
really thought about like whatthat, what that means, because
you know, and especially withadditive, I think it's oh, it's
fast growing, everyone's doingit.
But that's interesting what youguys are saying, that like the
(25:54):
companies are slower to catch upbecause it's a new technology,
obviously it takes time to adoptthese things.
Um, so yeah, that's cool whatyou guys, that, that grit that
you guys are trying to put intoyour students and show them that
they can go and make these jobs, as you said, 3d print the jobs
, right.
Daniel Hyler (26:10):
And one thing that I've noticed about the industry
is that it's less likely for abusiness to transition into
additive, more so than it is fora business to begin with
additive.
So there's new company startupsthat are doing strictly
additive as their main source ofproduction, versus companies
that have been around,businesses that have been around
for 50-plus years, that havebeen doing it a certain way for
(26:33):
so long that they're almostscared to get into the new
technology, scared that theydon't know what they're going to
get into, scared they're goingto do it wrong and not be
successful.
Tim Holland (26:41):
Right, they're scared to invest the money
without knowing that they'regoing to get a good return.
So, yeah, they, because they'realready established, they, you
know they, they can afford towait a bit.
See how, make sure this isn't afad or a trend.
You know they, they can affordto kind of wait it out a little
bit and let let some otherpeople be the pioneers.
(27:04):
Let them fall on their face If,if that's what happens.
Um, but I think more and morecompanies, uh, whether brand new
or well-established, they'reall seeing that that additive
additive is sticking around Um,and there's there's way more
pros than cons to it, so they'reall starting to really get
(27:25):
geared up.
Um, at the, the last job fairwe had, I actually had two
companies that I've uh talked tooccasionally, you know, cause
they usually send the samepeople, so you know, I get to
see them on occasion.
Um of the companiesspecifically sought me out and
(27:45):
were asking me how many additivestudents I had that were
looking for jobs, because notonly did they finally get
additive put into thosecompanies, but they wanted
people like today.
Daniel Hyler (27:59):
So, yeah, companies are getting hungry for
, for people had someone justtoday asking the same thing me
and tim were talking about thatjust not even an hour ago, about
wanting students to come andwork for them anybody who is
over the age of 18 would like tocome learn additive
manufacturing and come to theatdm program.
Caleb Ayers (28:17):
Learn from uh, tim or daniel, depending on what
shift you end up in.
Um, they're obviously great,passionate instructors, very
knowledgeable about additive and, as they said, this is a
growing field for companies youcan send.
Atdm has industry sponsorspositions where you can send
people through the program as aconditional hire.
(28:38):
So there's options forcompanies and businesses that
are looking to add employees andthere's options for people who
are looking to learn theseskills and get out in the field.
So, um, that's all thequestions that I have for you.
Any, I appreciate you guystaking the time to talk today.
I know this is a ATDM is cool.
The longer I'm here, I'm likeyeah, atdm is a really, really
cool program and there's lots of, lots of different angles to
(29:00):
that.
Any other thoughts that youguys would want to share For?
Tim Holland (29:03):
me, you're absolutely right.
Atdm is really cool, getting tobe one of the few people who
have seen both sides of it, notjust as a student, but also as
the instructor.
For me, it's just as cool beinghere.
Either way, I have a ton of fun.
(29:24):
I had fun while I was here as astudent learning, and I have a
ton of fun here as an instructor.
You don't find that too manyplaces.
So, yeah, I'm stoked, I'm happy.
Daniel Hyler (29:35):
Same thing for me.
It was fun, it was excitingwhile I was here as a student,
but it's just even better now asan instructor, being able to
give that excitement to someoneelse.
It's just a whole new way oftaking your hobbies and being
able to work for it.
Caleb Ayers (29:52):
Yeah, that's really awesome.
Well, thank you guys for beinghere.
We appreciate it.
Thank you Anytime.
All right, welcome to another episode of Inside
IALR.
Thanks for joining us today.
So we have done a lot ofepisodes that involve ATDM, our
Accelerated Training and DefenseManufacturing Program.
We've done a lot of episodesthat involve that program one
way or another.
And here we are with anotherepisode that involves ATDM.
So we have, I think, a prettycool story that we have two
(00:31):
instructors in the additivemanufacturing program for ATDM
that are actually graduates ofATDM.
So they went through theprogram, went out in industry,
have come back and worked theirway up and are now instructing
students coming through.
We have Hyler and and TimHolland who are both additive
manufacturing instructors.
So thank you guys for beinghere.
It's good to be here.
Tell me about how kind of youended up in the ATDM program to
(00:55):
begin with and kind of what wereyour takeaways from that.
Daniel Hyler (00:58):
Well, I had the wonderful pleasure of being part
of the very first CNC programfor ATDM.
Pleasure of being part of thevery first CNC program for ATDM
I was just fresh out of highschool, I'd actually graduated
on a Friday.
I got a call on Saturday thatthere was this program from an
employee within ATDM and theyreached out and said there was
(01:18):
an open slot.
So I decided I'd sign up and Istarted class on Monday.
And then also the pleasure ofbeing part of the first additive
class for ATDM shortly afterthe CNC program was completed.
So it was a wonderful program.
Caleb Ayers (01:35):
You have to tell how you went through it twice.
That seems worth sharing.
Daniel Hyler (01:41):
Well, truthfully, it was before policies were set
in place, so I don't know if weshould go too much in detail on
that, but it was for Fast Tech,so you threw it right.
Yes, so after completing the CNCprogram a local business
actually on site here at IALR,fast Tech they took me on as
(02:06):
kind of an intern to begin withand I moved into an official
part-time job and then theyactually sponsored for me to go
into the additive program withATDM.
I went through the ATDM programduring the mornings and then
went back to work basically afull-time job at nights with
Fast Tech and at the completionof the additive course I went on
(02:27):
to being kind of the leadadditive engineer, kind of on
site, for certain machines thatwere at Fast Tech, and I stayed
there for approximately eightmonths later before coming back
onto the ATDM team Nice.
Caleb Ayers (02:41):
And what about you, Tim?
Tim Holland (02:42):
I initially came here I was industry sponsored.
At the time I was working as amachinist for Norfolk Naval
Shipyard.
Out in Norfolk they prettyregularly send a few of their
either machinists or theirapprentices out here to get
further training, especially onyou know, the CNC machines,
(03:06):
training especially on, you know, the CNC machines.
So they sent me out here to gettrained.
Absolutely fell in love withDanville while I was out here.
I love the nice small town feelof it but it's still a big
(03:28):
enough town that you know youcan still do all the things you
really want to do, you know, andso went through the CNC program
here at ATDM.
I was part of the fifth cohortthrough that program and went
back to the the shipyard afterbut decided I wanted to come
back here after a little whilebecause I enjoyed the area.
I enjoyed the program and whatwe do here and feel it gave me
(03:49):
some more opportunities.
Caleb Ayers (03:51):
And both of you guys started as technicians in
the program and then worked yourway up to instructors.
That's correct, yes, correct.
And both of you guys recentlybecame instructors.
Daniel Hyler (04:01):
So I'm in a little interesting situation.
After being a technician forthe ATDM additive course for
about a year, I actually steppedout of ATDM for another program
here at ILR, the NASAM program,and I was doing that for about
10, 11 months and then ended uptaking a position as the ATDM
additive instructor.
Caleb Ayers (04:21):
And for those who don't know, nasam is also
additive manufacturing just foractive duty Navy personnel.
So still teaching additive.
Just changed audience Right,correct.
So what kind of were your asyou guys were going through the
ATDM program kind of, what wereyour takeaways?
And I mean, I know you wentthrough twice, daniel, but
specifically on the additiveside, what were kind of your big
(04:42):
takeaways from the program?
What were the or wait, you justsaid you went through CNC.
Tim Holland (04:46):
Yeah, I went through CNC as a student.
That's wild.
Caleb Ayers (04:48):
Neither of you went through ATDM, as I mean you
didn't go through ATDM asadditive.
Tim Holland (04:51):
Nope.
So.
So for me it was additive.
Well, 3D printing has been ahuge hobby of mine for well over
a decade, well over a decade.
And so, yeah, when Danielactually transferred over to
(05:12):
NASAM to be the instructor therethat opened up a technician
spot in additive, I went intoour boss's office with a whole
bunch of stuff that I printedout from home and was like I
want to transfer over becausethat's, cnc is where my resume
is at, where my experience is at, but additive is where my
passion is at, and he let mehave the opportunity to go over.
I went over at first on justkind of a trial basis to see how
(05:35):
things went.
Uh, I went over to additive, uh, working with the instructor at
the time, eric, and he gave methe thumbs up and said, yeah, I
got, I got my new technician, sostayed there until uh, uh, he
uh decided to to move up andmove out and, you know, get onto
(05:55):
his own thing.
And uh, so the Institute uhbumped me up to instructor as
well.
So that's how we have two of usnow.
Caleb Ayers (06:03):
Yeah, that's, that's really cool.
What were kind of the thingsthat you learned while you were
in the ATDM program, whether itbe in the CNC machining or the
additive track, that kind ofinfluence how you now teach the
program.
Daniel Hyler (06:17):
I think the main thing that I took away was the
computer-aided design, the CADtraining that was part of that.
So all of the ATDM students inthe additive course they learn a
program called Fusion 360,which allows you to produce in
the computer anything that youcould imagine.
Tim Holland (06:35):
And that was a big help when moving into the
industry position that I was inand then also going in further
to teach that that training wasinstrumental to the progression
that I've made to piggyback offof uh what Daniel said, because
I agree 100% that the CADsoftware, um learning that has
(06:58):
been huge uh, especially for uhthe that you know, after I
graduated, because the CNCinstructor let us get into
Fusion a little bit and dabblewith not just design but also
the CAM side, the computer-aidedmachining side of Fusion 360.
(07:20):
And when I was able to go backto Norfolk Naval I was able to
utilize that a bit, which washuge for me.
There's been many times whereI'm trying to just even
visualize something myself and Ihave to go running over to my
(07:40):
laptop, open up Fusion just so Ican actually put it in there
and be able to see it better onthe screen than it is in my own
imagination, was how much thetraining really tries to align
(08:04):
itself to realistic expectationsof what life is like outside of
the training environment, in anactual shop environment.
You know the students are.
We're expected to clock in andout on time.
You know they actually hold youto your attendance here.
You have to wear all the propersafety gear, you have to check
(08:31):
tools in and out, everythingthat is normal in a regular shop
environment.
So that way hopefully thetransition for somebody who's
coming in, who isn't industrysponsored and doesn't know what
life is like in a shop.
You know that transition toshop life is a lot easier.
Caleb Ayers (08:50):
Yeah, that makes sense and that is a good might
as well structure the program tomatch where the students are
going to after.
So that definitely seems like agood selling point for ATDM.
Tim, you said your hobby isadditive 3D printing.
That's been a hobby of yours for10 years.
I mean, I get the idea, I getthe very basic idea of 3D
printing, but tell me a littlebit about additive manufacturing
(09:12):
on a very basic level and thenkind of walk us through some of
the I guess some of the mainthings that you're teaching,
that you guys are teaching thestudents in these classes about
the actual process of using 3Dprinting to make parts.
Tim Holland (09:26):
Oh, certainly.
So yeah, with 3D printing,obviously you know you're taking
some form of media, whether itbe plastic or metal or composite
material, resins, what have youand you are taking your design.
The software will put it intoessentially just layers, slice
(09:51):
it horizontally, and so eachlayer it will create, and then,
once it's done with that layer,moves up, does the next layer,
over and over and over againuntil you end up with your part.
The really neat thing aboutdoing it with additive versus a
(10:13):
normal subtractive method is youhave a lot less waste.
A lot of times you're able tocreate geometries that may not
be able to be created withsubtractive manufacturing.
Caleb Ayers (10:23):
Explain that a little bit more.
You can make geometries thataren't possible with subtractive
manufacturing.
Explain that a little bit moreyou can make geometries that
aren't possible with subtractivemanufacturing.
Tim Holland (10:28):
That sounds interesting.
So with subtractivemanufacturing, like machining,
if you can't touch it from theoutside, you can't machine it.
So if there's some sort of likeinternal cavity or void or
something on the inside of apart, I have to be able to reach
that from the outside.
I have to be able to get a toolin there from the outside in
(10:49):
order to create that.
Um, whereas with additive,because you're making it layer
by layer by layer, you can havea fully encapsulated void or
pocket or something on theinterior of your print that
can't be reached otherwise.
There are certain geometrieseven on the outside of a part.
(11:12):
If it's a very intricate part,again, if I can't figure out how
to fit this long straight, youknow tool in there to create
that without hitting anotherpart of the material.
I can't make that, then youknow, whereas with additive I
can.
So it's a really for me it's areally exciting technology to
(11:40):
learn and be a part of, becauseI feel like the only thing I'm
limited by is my imagination.
Daniel Hyler (11:47):
To continue off that thought, all of the
intricacies that additivemanufacturing has there's just
the same as any other process.
There's different tricks,hiccups that you're going to
fall into as you go through theprocess, and that's the main
thing that we're teaching thesestudents is how to look out for
those trouble spots in any partand how to overcome them.
(12:09):
That's one of the biggestchallenges.
The biggest hurdles to overcomeis to learn how to think in
that 3D space, being able toovercome those troubles and
figuring out an efficient way toget your end result the way it
should be.
Tim Holland (12:25):
Absolutely.
Another thing that we go overis specifically, which is
essentially what Daniel was justtalking about, is design for
additive.
A lot of geometries or aspectsof parts that they are there
(12:53):
specifically because of themethod that they are made in.
You know, whether you have likean injection molded piece of
plastic, you know they're goingto put certain geometries on
there in order to make it easierto separate from the mold Um or
if they want to have uh lessmaterial, so that way they don't
you know they're not having tomake as an expensive of a part.
(13:14):
You'll have like a big openspace on one side, Whereas with
additive we can vary um the theinside structure of the part to
where we can still have a fullsize part, no weird cutouts or
uh missing bits, but still beable to uh reduce the amount of
(13:38):
plastic and material in there ifit doesn't need it.
So that's another thing you knowthat we teach about is how can
we, how can we break away fromthe norm essentially of making
things and actually design forthe process that we're using?
(13:58):
Because a lot of people,honestly, when they start
getting into additivemanufacturing and 3D printing,
they think it's just CNCsubtractive, but in reverse.
You know we're building up,we're not cutting away, but
there's a lot more to it thanjust that.
Caleb Ayers (14:16):
So that's every.
That's my understanding of whatyou exactly.
What you just said.
When I talk about it's, yeah,subtractive, you're tearing down
, additive, you're building up.
So now I got it, now I'mlearning the more to it.
You know, a few episodes ago wehad a couple of the guys from
the maritime industrial base totalk about the work happening in
the in the CMA, with additivemanufacturing and how they're
basically creating those recipesfor how to do the 3D printing
(14:39):
for these parts.
From your guys' perspective andI think, daniel, you especially
, having worked with NASAM aswell, you saw it from the
active-duty Navy side what areyou guys seeing as far as how is
additive being used in industrytoday and what kinds of parts
are you guys training studentsto be able to go make?
(14:59):
And I mean not specific parts,but like what types of things?
Daniel Hyler (15:04):
Generally now, additive is touching every
industry that's out there,whether it's medical for
implants, or medical for tissuerepair.
There's the actual industrial,mechanical parts that military
is using, aerospace it's allover the place now.
The main thing that additive isbeing used for, especially on
(15:29):
the military side, is for adirect replacement for parts
that they can't actively get now, whether the part was in the
supply chain before and now isno longer being produced, or it
was a part from a really, reallyold manufacturer that's no
longer in business.
Whatever the situation is,they're using additive
manufacturing to reproduce andcopy these parts that they no
(15:49):
longer have access to.
Tim Holland (15:51):
Another thing that I've noticed is you know,
additive is great for rapidprototyping.
Great for rapid prototypingAgain, when I was working back
in Norfolk Naval, like we had aspecific group.
They were the rapid prototypelab.
That's where the couple of 3Dprinters that they did have in
(16:12):
the shipyard at the time, that'swhere they lived, because
anytime you had an idea forsomething and you needed to
quickly try to make that item,that's where you went and those
were the tools that they used.
Think outside the box, try tocome up with something new and
go through iterations, becausenobody's going to have the
(16:44):
perfect answer to the questionright off the bat.
You know you're going to haveto print something out, see if
it breaks.
If it does, okay, how can westop that and go through the
whole process.
Which additive is absolutelyperfect for helping companies do
that?
And then, another way that weare seeing the industry really
(17:08):
embrace additive is in more ofyour exotic materials.
One of the printing methodsthat we have is the Meltio
system, so it prints in metaland when you have a more exotic
metal, say like titanium forexample, if I can print a part
(17:32):
out, that's almost the exactthing you know, because the
printers aren't precise enoughto get it 100% correct, but if I
can print it, say 80% to 90%correct, and then use
traditional machining to get itthe rest of the way, I'm only
(17:53):
wasting.
Maybe.
What would you say, say 5%, 10%, the amount of material versus
normal subtractive methods,which means I don't have half
the money that I spent on thatmaterial going out in the waste
bin.
Now I only have a fraction ofthat cost going out of the waste
(18:14):
bin.
So there's more money in thecompany's pocket.
There's more money, hopefully,in the machinist's pocket, or
the, the company's pocket.
There's more money hopefully in, you know, the, the machinist
pocket, or the, the additivetechnician's pocket, you know,
for the same product.
Caleb Ayers (18:26):
essentially, and I know, yeah, as you said, it's
daniel, it's in every industry,and I know you guys are more
focused on the you knowindustrial part of it and the
you know more more traditionalparts.
You're not work working inmedical or anything like that,
but yeah, you, I know there'swhole rabbit holes, you can go
down with that and all thethings they're trying to.
3d print.
Tim Holland (18:46):
I don't know if we can name drop name brands for
you, but Invisalign braces.
You know what I'm talking about, 3D printed.
They're 3D printed on resinprinters.
Daniel Hyler (18:59):
Did not know that.
And then on the other end ofthe spectrum, 3d printed steaks
like rib eyes Now that you canget.
They're really expensive, butthey're apparently really good.
Caleb Ayers (19:09):
I wish you could see my face listeners um trying
to understand how that works.
Tim Holland (19:15):
So something maybe a bit more, uh, appetizing.
Uh, you can actually get now,um, now, 3d chocolate printers.
They print in chocolate so youcan make some really cool custom
chocolates at home, you know,in all kinds of different shapes
, sizes, and fill it with allkinds of nifty things you want
(19:37):
to make, like a little Easterbunny that when you break you
break it open sprinkles goflying everywhere.
Daniel Hyler (19:42):
you can do that and I've seen the chocolate
printers use quite a bit forcake decorating.
Yep, yep, like little roses orother types of decorations.
Caleb Ayers (19:51):
So when are we going to get some of those in
the atdm lab as soon?
Tim Holland (19:55):
as you buy them.
Caleb Ayers (19:57):
What's y'all's favorite part of being
instructors for this program?
Daniel Hyler (20:00):
So for me personally, I've always enjoyed
helping other people and helpingpeople progress.
That's just something that Ican do every day while I'm here
with ATDM constantly helpingpeople learn new tips, new
tricks, learning new processes,new ways to think about things,
constantly being able to changesomebody's perspective on
(20:22):
something to be able to get ajob done, but even more
efficiently than they would havethought would have been
possible.
That's just something that Ireally enjoy and very, very glad
that I can be able to do thatevery single day.
Tim Holland (20:36):
For me, I would have to say, my favorite part is
the light bulb moment.
When, when I am instructingsomebody and I'm trying to teach
them, like you know, a wholenew process or a whole new way
to think about something, andyou know you can, you can see it
in their eyes where they'retrying to fit these, these
(20:58):
mental puzzle pieces together,and when it all finally does
just kind of click together, youcan, you can see it on their
face when that light bulb goesoff.
That feeling of giving someonethat, when, when that moment
happens, oh, such a greatfeeling.
I love that.
I live for for that.
(21:18):
So, uh, yeah, and then, um, likeDaniel was saying, you know,
helping somebody learn a wholenew skill that you know they can
not just have a job but have acareer out of.
Uh and yeah, I get to go homeknowing like, hey, I helped make
that happen.
And then, on top of it you know, because ideal and not just
(21:41):
additive, but you know, part ofour curriculum is also some
subtractive work as well I getto not only help people better
themselves, but I get to do twoof my favorite things while I'm
doing it, and then, on top ofthat, they pay me money for it.
Caleb Ayers (21:56):
I'm living the life that's my favorite bit Sounds
like you guys got good gigs andit sounds like we got some
passionate instructors in here,so I love it.
I love it.
Um, tim, you just mentioned thelight bulb moment.
I would imagine that's a bigpart of the answer to this next
last question.
But what's what's kind of they'all's goal for every student
(22:19):
that finishes the additivemanufacturing track for ATDM?
What's kind of your goal forthose, for each of those
students who are finishing it?
Tim Holland (22:27):
Additive is still the new kid on the block when it
comes to the industry.
You know companies areinvesting more and more every
day, but there's still a fairamount of companies out there
that haven't even bought into ityet, and so one of the issues
(22:49):
that we've been having isgetting a lot of students out
into industry when there'spotentially not enough jobs to
additive jobs for them to getinto essentially not enough jobs
to additive jobs for them toget into.
One of my goals is to try toinstill enough drive and passion
(23:18):
for it that you know they wantto get out into industry.
They know it's a little bit ofan uphill battle for them
because additive is so new.
It's a little bit of an uphillbattle for them because additive
is so new, but they arehopefully looking forward to
that more than dreading it.
You know, because once morecompanies do get into additive
and do get these things up andrunning.
They're essentially alreadygoing to have the workforce
(23:41):
there.
You know they're going to havethese people working for them
already.
It's just these people arewaiting for the company to catch
up to them and so, yeah,there'll be shoe-ins for, you
know, the higher-up additivespots or they're going to be
able to shine as employees forthese companies, and so that's
(24:05):
not just imparting the actualeducation and knowledge, but for
me that's what I try to do isfind that passion in all of the
students and try to get that togrow.
Daniel Hyler (24:19):
My answer to the question would be very, very
similar to what Tim has said.
The main goal that I see withthese students, that I would
like to see from these students,is to have enough, like Tim
said, drive, initiative and justexcitement for the entire
(24:39):
additive process Enough for themto be able to search for a job
Now, as Tim said, there's notvery many out there right now.
Additive is a slow-growingfield but it's speeding up very
fast New technologies, new typesof processes every day.
I would like to see thesestudents have enough initiative,
(25:00):
enough drive to if they can'tfind a job make a job, whether
they take a job that just has amanufacturing position,
something where they're justdoing CAD design, just being
able to 3D, model things, andthen try to push some industry
(25:21):
or some business into theadditive field to be able to
make that business grow and besuccessful as they grow with
that.
That's just the main thing thatI would like to see out of
every student that comes through.
Caleb Ayers (25:32):
Yeah, no, as you guys were talking about that, I
was thinking about the.
I think we have it somewhere onour website or in some of our,
somewhere on our marketingmaterials, the idea of we're
training the workforce oftomorrow, that idea, and I never
really thought about like whatthat, what that means, because
you know, and especially withadditive, I think it's oh, it's
fast growing, everyone's doingit.
But that's interesting what youguys are saying, that like the
(25:54):
companies are slower to catch upbecause it's a new technology,
obviously it takes time to adoptthese things.
Um, so yeah, that's cool whatyou guys, that, that grit that
you guys are trying to put intoyour students and show them that
they can go and make these jobs, as you said, 3d print the jobs
, right.
Daniel Hyler (26:10):
And one thing that I've noticed about the industry
is that it's less likely for abusiness to transition into
additive, more so than it is fora business to begin with
additive.
So there's new company startupsthat are doing strictly
additive as their main source ofproduction, versus companies
that have been around,businesses that have been around
for 50-plus years, that havebeen doing it a certain way for
(26:33):
so long that they're almostscared to get into the new
technology, scared that theydon't know what they're going to
get into, scared they're goingto do it wrong and not be
successful.
Tim Holland (26:41):
Right, they're scared to invest the money
without knowing that they'regoing to get a good return.
So, yeah, they, because they'realready established, they, you
know they, they can afford towait a bit.
See how, make sure this isn't afad or a trend.
You know they, they can affordto kind of wait it out a little
bit and let let some otherpeople be the pioneers.
(27:04):
Let them fall on their face If,if that's what happens.
Um, but I think more and morecompanies, uh, whether brand new
or well-established, they'reall seeing that that additive
additive is sticking around Um,and there's there's way more
pros than cons to it, so they'reall starting to really get
(27:25):
geared up.
Um, at the, the last job fairwe had, I actually had two
companies that I've uh talked tooccasionally, you know, cause
they usually send the samepeople, so you know, I get to
see them on occasion.
Um of the companiesspecifically sought me out and
(27:45):
were asking me how many additivestudents I had that were
looking for jobs, because notonly did they finally get
additive put into thosecompanies, but they wanted
people like today.
Daniel Hyler (27:59):
So, yeah, companies are getting hungry for
, for people had someone justtoday asking the same thing me
and tim were talking about thatjust not even an hour ago, about
wanting students to come andwork for them anybody who is
over the age of 18 would like tocome learn additive
manufacturing and come to theatdm program.
Caleb Ayers (28:17):
Learn from uh, tim or daniel, depending on what
shift you end up in.
Um, they're obviously great,passionate instructors, very
knowledgeable about additive and, as they said, this is a
growing field for companies youcan send.
Atdm has industry sponsorspositions where you can send
people through the program as aconditional hire.
(28:38):
So there's options forcompanies and businesses that
are looking to add employees andthere's options for people who
are looking to learn theseskills and get out in the field.
So, um, that's all thequestions that I have for you.
Any, I appreciate you guystaking the time to talk today.
I know this is a ATDM is cool.
The longer I'm here, I'm likeyeah, atdm is a really, really
cool program and there's lots of, lots of different angles to
(29:00):
that.
Any other thoughts that youguys would want to share For?
Tim Holland (29:03):
me, you're absolutely right.
Atdm is really cool, getting tobe one of the few people who
have seen both sides of it, notjust as a student, but also as
the instructor.
For me, it's just as cool beinghere.
Either way, I have a ton of fun.
(29:24):
I had fun while I was here as astudent learning, and I have a
ton of fun here as an instructor.
You don't find that too manyplaces.
So, yeah, I'm stoked, I'm happy.
Daniel Hyler (29:35):
Same thing for me.
It was fun, it was excitingwhile I was here as a student,
but it's just even better now asan instructor, being able to
give that excitement to someoneelse.
It's just a whole new way oftaking your hobbies and being
able to work for it.
Caleb Ayers (29:52):
Yeah, that's really awesome.
Well, thank you guys for beinghere.
We appreciate it.
Thank you Anytime.
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!