May 5, 2025 • 25 mins
In this episode of Inside IALR, we dive deep into the world of metrology, a crucial trade that plays a significant role in national defense manufacturing. The episode features Tony Almeida, Regional Sales Manager at Mitutoyo, and Jarrod Hankins, Metrology Instructor at IALR's Accelerated Training in Defense Manufacturing (ATDM) program.
Metrology is the science of measurement. It ensures that parts are manufactured with incredible precision, often down to microns. Together, they highlight how metrology ensures that parts used in defense manufacturing, particularly in the Navy’s shipbuilding and repair operations, meet the highest standards of quality.
Episode Highlights
- 0:47 - What is metrology, and how is it used in manufacturing?
- 3:09 - The role of IALR’s precision metrology lab in supporting the Navy's Additive Manufacturing Center
- 6:56 - Key metrology tools, from calipers to 3D laser scanning
- 8:36 - Inside the precision metrology lab: The significance of the Coordinate Measuring Machine (CMM)
- 17:04 - The importance of calibration and ensuring precision in every tool
- 22:06 - How metrology helps support the national defense industrial base
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caleb Ayers (00:09):
Welcome to another episode of Inside IALR.
Thanks for joining us today.
So we have a fun one todayabout metrology, which before I
started working here I hadabsolutely no idea what that was
, and I will say that I know alittle bit more about it today
than I did before I startedworking here.
So we have Tony Almeida, who isthe regional sales manager in
(00:30):
the southeast for Mitutoyo, andthen we have Jared Hankins, who
is one of our metrologyinstructors here for the ATDM
program.
So thank you guys for beinghere.
I appreciate it.
I'm going to start it offsimple.
Well, you guys can take it andrun with it and make it as
simple or not simple as you want, but what is metrology?
Tony Almeida (00:47):
By definition, metrology is a science of
measurement.
Everything that is made has tobe measured okay for fit
function, make sure it doesn'tfail, and metrology is just the
way we measure these parts.
I'm sure Jared has some to add.
Jarrod Hankins (01:05):
Well, for metrology.
You know a lot of people lookat that and it's part of QC, so
it's quality control.
So in our world we'redimensional inspections.
So anytime that a machine shopor operations manufactures a
part or a component, we have toinspect that part because we're
the last line of defense beforeit gets shipped off to the
(01:26):
customer.
So we're measuring these partsto precise measurements using
precision measuring tools andcoordinate measuring machines.
And when you think about theaccuracy, you know you look at
the human hair has an average ofthree thousandths diameter and
if you were to split that 30times, we can easily achieve
(01:48):
that in our measurement process.
Caleb Ayers (01:50):
Wow, very precise, to say the least Important
question here.
Can you break down what is thedifference between metrology and
meteorology, or is there adifference?
Tony Almeida (02:00):
There's quite a big difference, so we do get
that a lot.
Jarrod Hankins (02:04):
One thing you know the weathermen can be off.
They can be wrong several times.
Where we can't Only severaltimes.
Weekly.
So when I look at that, youknow, a lot of my students come
in and they see metrology andthey think it's the study of
weather and it's not In ourworld, it's dimensional
(02:24):
inspection.
So looking at that, I usuallycrack the joke and say, yeah,
you know, weathermen can bewrong.
We can't.
We have a lot more consequencesfor it.
Caleb Ayers (02:34):
I'll remember that one.
So for those listening I guessI should explain why you two are
the ones that are here.
So Mitutoyo runs a lot of theoperations in the precision
metrology lab here in our Centerfor Manufacturing Advancement.
So that lab contributes to aNavy project where they are
(02:55):
inspecting parts for the US Navyas they're basically developing
recipes for how to use additivemanufacturing to make these
parts.
The metrology lab is the lastline that inspects those parts
to make sure those measurementsare good.
And I know you all are involvedin multiple steps of that
process, not just at the end,and we can get to that.
And then Jared is an instructorfor ATDM, which trains people
(03:20):
in five different tracks andmetrology is one of them to
basically go work in thecompanies that make parts and
maintain parts for ships andsubmarines.
So both of those thingshappening on our campus I know
you guys, um, are coming at thisfrom different angles of.
You know jared, you'd be on the, you being on the training, um,
and tony, you being with moreof the.
You know the sales and the, themaintenance side of it.
(03:41):
But it's very, it's very, veryinteresting field and very, as
you said, very, very precisework that you all do so, I guess
, tell me a little bit aboutyour both of you, for both of
you.
Tell me a little bit about yourcareer background and how you
got to be involved in metrology,like what, what?
Tony Almeida (03:58):
led you to this.
I was 19 years old, working asan auto mechanic.
It was a time where leases cameout and they were very good
leases no money down, very lowpayments.
So the garage I was workingwith laid me off and my dad at
the time was looking innewspaper.
That's how he found jobs backthen.
It was newspaper ads and he sawwhere it said caliper repairman
(04:24):
wanted so I'm thinking it wasbench work, calipers,
alternators, you know, starters,stuff like that.
I said I think I can do thatand my dad came with me.
Um, god bless him he's nolonger with us.
But we went to this beautifulplace in Paramus, new Jersey.
We walk into the showroom and Isee measuring calipers and
(04:46):
micrometers and I said you know,dad, I don't think this is what
we thought.
He says it's okay, let's giveit a shot, see what happens.
I interviewed with my boss backthen and wound up getting a job
and the job was fixing calipersand micrometers and height
gauges and indicators.
And as I started getting intoit, man, I really liked the
precision of it.
(05:06):
I mean, you had to be prettymuch perfect, right.
And it just grew with me and Istayed with Mitutoyo.
Been there now 39 years andfrom there just grew with the
company and fell in love withmetrology.
Jarrod Hankins (05:21):
Well, for myself , it started at a young age.
You know I always like to takethings apart and see how they
worked and functioned together,and when I graduated high school
I was more into the carpentryside of it and reading
blueprints and establishing thatmindset geared me to go to
Danville Community College andtake precision machining and
(05:42):
that led me to BWX in Lynchburg,virginia.
So I started off as a machinistand with several years in the
manufacturing side, Itransitioned over to metrology
or QC and I was actually sentback to ATDM myself and took the
metrology course and acquired alot of certifications in
(06:06):
metrology and that led me to theposition that I'm in now.
So I've always had amanufacturing background.
I've got about 18 yearsmanufacturing background, as far
as you know, for BWX and Ireally enjoy it.
Caleb Ayers (06:20):
I did not know that you went through the ATDM
program as a student.
Yes, so you are as far.
Are there four of you, or arethere more?
Jarrod Hankins (06:27):
There's only one right now, one metrology
student.
Caleb Ayers (06:30):
Well, but I mean four that have gone through,
four instructors that have gonethrough the ATDM program Awesome
, michaela Baker in welding andthen there's two in additive.
Both of the additivemanufacturing instructors went
through ATDM as students as well.
Yeah, that's really cool.
And for you guys, what do yousee as kind of and I mean you
were talking about micrometersand some of those different
tools what are kind of theprimary tools of the trade in
(06:51):
metrology?
What are those things that youall are using and are training
students on?
Jarrod Hankins (06:56):
It depends from one place of manufacturing to
another.
Depends on what you'reinspecting.
You can have basic dimensionalinspections using calipers and
micrometers, test indicators,dial indicators, height stands,
gauge blocks, gauge pins, andthen you can go into the bridge
CMM.
So you're actually programmingthe CMM to take away the human
(07:18):
contact of it and CMM stands forcoordinate measuring machine
right, yeah, coordinatemeasuring machine.
So I teach my students all of it.
We teach them from the groundup manual dimensional
inspections and then we moveinto the Coordinate Measuring
Machine and teach them how toprogram and operate the CMM.
From there we move to portableCMMs and 3D laser scanning,
(07:47):
portable cmms and 3d laserscanning, so we can actually
laser, 3d laser scan a componentand compare it to a cad model
for inspection.
Um, the ferro laser tracker,you know we can inspect large
objects.
So they're the world ofmetrology.
It is a various, it is a widearray of tools that you may see
in manufacturing.
It depends on what, what areathat you go, you know, from
shipbuilding to the nuclearindustry.
Qc is a broad range of jobs, tobegin with, for the metrology
(08:13):
lab here in the Center forManufacturing Advancement.
Caleb Ayers (08:16):
I know one of the biggest selling points is the
coordinate measuring machinethat is in there.
That's, as I understand it, oneof the largest on the East
Coast.
So tell us a little bit aboutkind of some of the equipment
that's in that lab and how youall use that to help both here
for the Navy's AdditiveManufacturing Center and then
also to help other companies.
Tony Almeida (08:36):
Well, we've got an array of equipment over there.
We have a surface roughnesstester, we've got a contraor the
hardness tester.
We have a QV Apex, which is avision machine, high
magnification microscope.
We have a profile projector orcomparator.
(08:57):
You have a roundness tester andthen you have the Krista
AV1630-12, which is that largeCMM you see down there with a
laser and a vision probe and asurface tester probe on there
too.
And then you have the 9108,which is a smaller machine, same
(09:18):
family, just a smaller versionof the CMM.
So as far as the CMMs, you know,they bring in the 3D printed
part, okay.
Then they measure it right andthen they go ahead and heat,
treat it and do what they haveto do after the measurements and
then we measure it again andtell them what they've got to
(09:39):
take off.
They come back and then we doanother final inspection.
So, from my understanding,everything that is 3D printed
over there comes to the lab atleast three times.
So the CMM is a big part ofthat, because it'll measure in
three axes, it'll measure a lotfaster, it'll do the GD&T for
(10:02):
you.
Caleb Ayers (10:03):
What does that acronym mean?
Tony Almeida (10:06):
Geometrical Dimensioning and Tolerancing.
Okay, so you can do thatmanually, and that's.
Jared does teach that, which issomething that I feel is very
important for students to learnright.
For me, it's like learning thetheory.
If you know the theory behindwhat you're trying to do, it's
just much more easier to graspand understand.
(10:26):
So with the CMM, they'll goahead and do those measurements
and then, this way, when thepart is finished, hopefully it's
correct and it's not going tofail.
You don't want a part failingout in the middle of the ocean,
on the sub, you know.
So that's where metrology comesin.
It's very, very important.
Jarrod Hankins (10:45):
And when you look at the overall, to add to
what he's saying, the theoryaspect.
So a topic like geometricdimensioning and tolerancing,
there's two sides to that.
So you have some people thatunderstand the theory part of it
and they can interpret it, butbeing able to apply it so it's
two sides to that.
So being able to interpret andapply GD&T to your inspection,
(11:10):
it builds the foundation for youto understand what the CMM is
doing for you.
So instead of having a machinethat is programmed by someone
else and that machine inspectsthe part 100% and does a great
job doing it, thetroubleshooting part is where
that comes into play.
So if a problem happens or ifit's a mistake that's made,
(11:31):
you're able to catch that byhaving those troubleshooting
foundational skills ofunderstanding what it's doing
for you.
Caleb Ayers (11:38):
And for those listening who don't know, atdm
or Accelerated Training andDefense Manufacturing.
Like we said, five tracks andmetrology is one of them.
It's welding, cnc machining,additive manufacturing,
non-destructive testing.
The students who are coming in,many of them don't have
(12:00):
experience in these tracks.
I would say most of them don'thave previous experience in this
.
Jared, you are an exceptioncoming in, I wouldn't say an
exception.
There are many students whocome in with previous experience
for upskilling, exactly likeyou did, and then there are many
career seekers who come in withno previous experience.
So, jared, for you, as you'reinstructing these students, you
know you talked about you guyshave talked about the balance of
(12:21):
theory and application.
How do you balance cramming allof that in this program that's
four months, I mean that's apretty quick turnaround time.
How do you balance, kind ofgetting that theory, getting
that hands-on and preparingthese students for the jobs that
come next?
Jarrod Hankins (12:36):
One way that I approach that is trying to
balance out the classroom andactually lab time, so being able
to have the students in theclassroom and explain to them
what they're doing.
They are not going to grasp theconcept completely until they
actually put their hands on itand do it on their own.
So we start off with thegranite station and teach these
(12:58):
students how to inspectdimensional inspections and
geometric dimensioning andtolerance GD&T inspections
manually.
And they can apply that becauseonce you, once you put your
hands on it, the concept, thelight bulb clicks that's the
term that I like to see when youlook around the room and you
see a lot of confusion.
And then when you go down tothe lab and they get their hands
(13:21):
on their measurement tools andthe cmm and they start to
understand what it's actuallydoing, the light bulb clicks and
that starts that foundation tobuild on.
Caleb Ayers (13:30):
When you're talking about the tolerances and the
precision that y'all are talkingabout, there's a lot of math
involved, I'm assuming.
Certainly Sounds like somethingI would not enjoy.
Jarrod Hankins (13:42):
A lot of calculations, a lot of math.
My students have to be veryversed in right angle trig, so
we do a lot of trig Calculations.
Have to be very versed in rightangle trig, so we do a lot of
trig.
Calculations have to be perfect.
You know, one calculation erroryou can.
A cumulative error is badenough.
And then when you havecalculation error on top of that
, everything has some degree oftolerance.
(14:04):
And with that in mind, whenyou're inspecting parts that
people's lives are on the linewhether you're making a nuclear
reactor or something for afighter jet all of those come
into play.
When you look at the importanceof quality, we're the last
people that touch that before itactually goes to the customer.
(14:25):
So if we make a mistake itcould be detrimental to a
company or especially tosomebody if they're using the
product For both of y'all.
Caleb Ayers (14:34):
you all have done different jobs that involve
metrology.
Obviously, jared, now you'reinvolved in training the next
group, and Tony, you're moreinvolved on the sales and
industry side.
But what kind of are the rolesthat are in the metrology field?
(14:55):
Like is this?
I guess, yeah, what are theroles that are available to,
whether it be the studentscoming out of ATDM or for other
companies?
I mean, what are these roles?
What industries are we talkingabout that metrology is involved
in?
Tony Almeida (15:03):
Obviously in manufacturing right In any type
of manufacturing.
It could be plastic molding orinjection molding to aerospace,
to automotive, to medical device.
So every industry, even bottlecaps, right bottles, you know
everything is checked Right Toto make sure it's going to work.
(15:26):
So as far as industries, it'llfit all industries it's going to
work.
So as far as industries, it'llfit all industries.
So some of the roles could be acalibration technician okay,
where there's a lot ofcalibration labs out there In
ometology.
You could be a calibrationtechnician.
You can be a service technicianokay, where you can go ahead
and do the calibration on theselarger machines that you go out
(15:48):
in the field for.
You can be a CMM operator orjust a metrologist as well, a
quality manager I mean thosetype of jobs 100%.
Jarrod Hankins (16:06):
I mean I think you cover that very well.
A lot of my students go intomanufacturing, you know,
especially for the submarineindustrial base, inspecting
parts from the machine shopadditive manufacturing.
Some of my students also go into get more training from like
(16:27):
the NDST or the non-destructivetesting side of it, because NDT
and quality control are underthe same umbrella.
It, because the NDT and qualitycontrol are under the same
umbrella, but we just instead ofus doing dimensional inspection
, they do non-destructivetesting, so being able to look
inside of parts and inspecting,but also calibration techs.
I've had students that are nowat Michitoyo so they can
calibrate the tools that weactually use on a daily basis in
(16:49):
metrology.
Tony Almeida (16:50):
And they're nice jobs Air-conditioned room, clean
environment you know whowouldn't want that.
Caleb Ayers (16:57):
How do you go about calibrating the equipment that
you're using to measure?
That sounds also like veryprecise and important work.
Tony Almeida (17:04):
So we have standards that are calibrated at
a third party, usually NIST, sowe'll have masters calibrated
there and then we'll calibrateit in our own lab at Mitutoyo
and then we are A2LA accredited.
So we have procedures on how touse those standards, what
(17:24):
measurements, what angles andwhat repeatability tests,
probing tests.
So we just follow procedureswith calibrated artifacts.
Jarrod Hankins (17:36):
And to touch on that from our side, you know
Mitch and Toyo, they go toanother level of calibration.
You know for actually themanufacturer of the tooling.
For us, as QC inspectors, youknow we have to check our tools
for repeatability and to makesure they're calibrated on a
daily basis.
We use standards in the samefashion.
(17:56):
I know in my class the firstthing that I do when we start to
measure is I give the class afake ruler so I print off a lot
of different rulers in their ownpaper and most people say that
you know, I know how to use atape measure, I know how to read
a six inch ruler and they goaround and measure several
different parts and nobody getsthe same answer because none of
(18:20):
the rulers are the same.
And then I can speak on theimportance of calibration, that
everybody's inch is the sameinch that seems like that would
be a memorable.
Caleb Ayers (18:29):
It is memorable experience there.
Jarrod Hankins (18:31):
When you get students, especially older
students that have used tapemeasures and such for a long
time, and when they cannot getaccurate measurements, you know
they start to get agitated, likeI know what I'm doing.
And when they compare therulers to a standard or
calibrated ruler or to somebodyelse's, they see the problem.
Caleb Ayers (18:50):
You guys have talked about math.
You've talked about how youknow there's a lot of
trigonometry involved and a lotof you know you need to be able
to understand what thesetheories are before you can
actually apply them.
I guess what are some of theother main skills that it's
important for people who work inthis field to have?
Jarrod Hankins (19:08):
One thing that I would say as far as from the
education standpoint spatialvisualization, being able to
read a print.
You know, in order to be a CMMprogrammer, a QC inspector, you
have to be able to understandhow to read and interpret a
print.
Being able to look at a 2Dsheet of paper and visualize
(19:29):
what the part should look likeas a 3D object, that is one of
the hardest concepts to learn.
If you've never had to do it isto be able to look at what the
part should be like by a sheetof paper or print just this
weekend I was trying to build aswing set.
Caleb Ayers (19:46):
I'm glad that I had friends there who could help me
read the blueprints, becausethat's not, that is not my
strength, and obviously you guysare talking about blueprints
that are much more importantthan a swing set.
So is there anything that youguys really want to talk about
that you feel like we haven'thit yet?
Jarrod Hankins (20:00):
I would like to reach out.
You know, for our partners hereat Michitoyo at the great job
that they do of providing uswith precision instruments and
our CMMs.
This service is awesome.
They are great partners to havein this and they've helped us
out a lot.
Tony Almeida (20:19):
Thank you, and I'd like to add the importance of
what's going on here at thecenter.
I can't tell you how many timesI've been around.
I've been around this countryfor 39 years, visiting many,
many different types ofindustries.
And the number one problem, canyou guess?
We don't have the talent, wecan't find the people to run
(20:43):
this product or run the CMM, orrun this or run even a quality
lab okay, machinists, they'rehaving problems finding
machinists.
So what you guys are doing hereis very, very, very important.
I wish this was in every state10 times over, because it's very
(21:04):
much needed.
I'm glad to see that many, manyschools are now adopting this or
trying to.
I know we've sent many peoplehere to the center that have
reached out to Mitutoyo andwe'll get in touch with Jeremiah
or somebody here, or Troy orsomebody, and see if we can set
(21:25):
something up, because it's justsomething that is lacking in
this country for a long, longtime.
I mean, there's just, you know,these kids don't have to go to
college if they can't go tocollege or if they're not A
students or they have problemwith this type of school.
Maybe they're good with theirhands, you know.
Maybe they're good with robotictype machines, you know.
(21:46):
They need to understand thatthere's another path, and that's
what you guys are providing isanother path, a well-paid path.
These jobs pay pretty good, youknow.
So I thank you guys for doingthat.
Jarrod Hankins (22:00):
I see the importance also is supporting
our submarine industrial base.
You know I feel proud every dayto come in and feel that I'm
helping out as far as thedeficiency that we have in
workers in our defenseindustrial base, seeing students
come in, that some are youngand I've had students that were
(22:23):
18.
I've had some students thatwere 72.
And some people that would comein and just look for a career
path change.
Or some people that didn't wantto necessarily go to a
four-year college but learn askill set.
Didn't want to necessarily goto a four-year college but learn
a skill set.
And these skill sets arevaluable to our country because
whether you're going to be amachinist or a welder, quality
(22:45):
control inspector, an additivemanufacturer or even an NDT
inspector, they all contributeto helping support our defense
industrial base and using thoseskills.
You know, as an American, weowe everything we have to our
United States military and thepeople that have went and fought
(23:05):
for the freedoms and theprivileges that we have and I
feel honored to be a part of aprogram that's supporting that.
Caleb Ayers (23:11):
Yeah, and I guess we didn't touch on that.
But so much up top.
But yeah, that these, these twoprograms are, you know, atdm is
training the workforce and thenthe Additive Manufacturing
Center of Excellence here and onour campus is, you know,
basically in technologydevelopment, for how do you 3D
print parts effectively?
And that's what Mitutoyo isinvolved in, and just the
(23:33):
interconnection between thosetwo things happening on the same
campus.
You know those, I guess, yeah,contributions to our national
defense, whether it be byproviding workers so that
companies who are makingsubmarines can continue to make
submarines, or whether it beproviding, you know, recipes for
how to use new manufacturingprocess so those companies can
(23:53):
better make parts for ships andsubmarines.
It's really cool to see all ofthat come together in one place
and clearly, as you guys haveoutlined.
You know, metrology is a really, really big, important part of
that.
So, yeah, thank you guys forbeing here today, thanks for
helping show kind of.
You know what this field is andyou know that's.
I know it's the science ofmeasurement.
You know you started with that.
That's when I started doing myresearch.
(24:13):
When I first got here I waslike, okay, science of
measurement got it, but you guyshave broken that, broken that
down in a very interesting,simple way, so I really really
appreciate that.
Anything else to add before wego?
Tony Almeida (24:23):
thanks for having us.
I enjoy coming here every time.
Welcome to another episode of Inside IALR.
Thanks for joining us today.
So we have a fun one todayabout metrology, which before I
started working here I hadabsolutely no idea what that was
, and I will say that I know alittle bit more about it today
than I did before I startedworking here.
So we have Tony Almeida, who isthe regional sales manager in
(00:30):
the southeast for Mitutoyo, andthen we have Jared Hankins, who
is one of our metrologyinstructors here for the ATDM
program.
So thank you guys for beinghere.
I appreciate it.
I'm going to start it offsimple.
Well, you guys can take it andrun with it and make it as
simple or not simple as you want, but what is metrology?
Tony Almeida (00:47):
By definition, metrology is a science of
measurement.
Everything that is made has tobe measured okay for fit
function, make sure it doesn'tfail, and metrology is just the
way we measure these parts.
I'm sure Jared has some to add.
Jarrod Hankins (01:05):
Well, for metrology.
You know a lot of people lookat that and it's part of QC, so
it's quality control.
So in our world we'redimensional inspections.
So anytime that a machine shopor operations manufactures a
part or a component, we have toinspect that part because we're
the last line of defense beforeit gets shipped off to the
(01:26):
customer.
So we're measuring these partsto precise measurements using
precision measuring tools andcoordinate measuring machines.
And when you think about theaccuracy, you know you look at
the human hair has an average ofthree thousandths diameter and
if you were to split that 30times, we can easily achieve
(01:48):
that in our measurement process.
Caleb Ayers (01:50):
Wow, very precise, to say the least Important
question here.
Can you break down what is thedifference between metrology and
meteorology, or is there adifference?
Tony Almeida (02:00):
There's quite a big difference, so we do get
that a lot.
Jarrod Hankins (02:04):
One thing you know the weathermen can be off.
They can be wrong several times.
Where we can't Only severaltimes.
Weekly.
So when I look at that, youknow, a lot of my students come
in and they see metrology andthey think it's the study of
weather and it's not In ourworld, it's dimensional
(02:24):
inspection.
So looking at that, I usuallycrack the joke and say, yeah,
you know, weathermen can bewrong.
We can't.
We have a lot more consequencesfor it.
Caleb Ayers (02:34):
I'll remember that one.
So for those listening I guessI should explain why you two are
the ones that are here.
So Mitutoyo runs a lot of theoperations in the precision
metrology lab here in our Centerfor Manufacturing Advancement.
So that lab contributes to aNavy project where they are
(02:55):
inspecting parts for the US Navyas they're basically developing
recipes for how to use additivemanufacturing to make these
parts.
The metrology lab is the lastline that inspects those parts
to make sure those measurementsare good.
And I know you all are involvedin multiple steps of that
process, not just at the end,and we can get to that.
And then Jared is an instructorfor ATDM, which trains people
(03:20):
in five different tracks andmetrology is one of them to
basically go work in thecompanies that make parts and
maintain parts for ships andsubmarines.
So both of those thingshappening on our campus I know
you guys, um, are coming at thisfrom different angles of.
You know jared, you'd be on the, you being on the training, um,
and tony, you being with moreof the.
You know the sales and the, themaintenance side of it.
(03:41):
But it's very, it's very, veryinteresting field and very, as
you said, very, very precisework that you all do so, I guess
, tell me a little bit aboutyour both of you, for both of
you.
Tell me a little bit about yourcareer background and how you
got to be involved in metrology,like what, what?
Tony Almeida (03:58):
led you to this.
I was 19 years old, working asan auto mechanic.
It was a time where leases cameout and they were very good
leases no money down, very lowpayments.
So the garage I was workingwith laid me off and my dad at
the time was looking innewspaper.
That's how he found jobs backthen.
It was newspaper ads and he sawwhere it said caliper repairman
(04:24):
wanted so I'm thinking it wasbench work, calipers,
alternators, you know, starters,stuff like that.
I said I think I can do thatand my dad came with me.
Um, god bless him he's nolonger with us.
But we went to this beautifulplace in Paramus, new Jersey.
We walk into the showroom and Isee measuring calipers and
(04:46):
micrometers and I said you know,dad, I don't think this is what
we thought.
He says it's okay, let's giveit a shot, see what happens.
I interviewed with my boss backthen and wound up getting a job
and the job was fixing calipersand micrometers and height
gauges and indicators.
And as I started getting intoit, man, I really liked the
precision of it.
(05:06):
I mean, you had to be prettymuch perfect, right.
And it just grew with me and Istayed with Mitutoyo.
Been there now 39 years andfrom there just grew with the
company and fell in love withmetrology.
Jarrod Hankins (05:21):
Well, for myself , it started at a young age.
You know I always like to takethings apart and see how they
worked and functioned together,and when I graduated high school
I was more into the carpentryside of it and reading
blueprints and establishing thatmindset geared me to go to
Danville Community College andtake precision machining and
(05:42):
that led me to BWX in Lynchburg,virginia.
So I started off as a machinistand with several years in the
manufacturing side, Itransitioned over to metrology
or QC and I was actually sentback to ATDM myself and took the
metrology course and acquired alot of certifications in
(06:06):
metrology and that led me to theposition that I'm in now.
So I've always had amanufacturing background.
I've got about 18 yearsmanufacturing background, as far
as you know, for BWX and Ireally enjoy it.
Caleb Ayers (06:20):
I did not know that you went through the ATDM
program as a student.
Yes, so you are as far.
Are there four of you, or arethere more?
Jarrod Hankins (06:27):
There's only one right now, one metrology
student.
Caleb Ayers (06:30):
Well, but I mean four that have gone through,
four instructors that have gonethrough the ATDM program Awesome
, michaela Baker in welding andthen there's two in additive.
Both of the additivemanufacturing instructors went
through ATDM as students as well.
Yeah, that's really cool.
And for you guys, what do yousee as kind of and I mean you
were talking about micrometersand some of those different
tools what are kind of theprimary tools of the trade in
(06:51):
metrology?
What are those things that youall are using and are training
students on?
Jarrod Hankins (06:56):
It depends from one place of manufacturing to
another.
Depends on what you'reinspecting.
You can have basic dimensionalinspections using calipers and
micrometers, test indicators,dial indicators, height stands,
gauge blocks, gauge pins, andthen you can go into the bridge
CMM.
So you're actually programmingthe CMM to take away the human
(07:18):
contact of it and CMM stands forcoordinate measuring machine
right, yeah, coordinatemeasuring machine.
So I teach my students all of it.
We teach them from the groundup manual dimensional
inspections and then we moveinto the Coordinate Measuring
Machine and teach them how toprogram and operate the CMM.
From there we move to portableCMMs and 3D laser scanning,
(07:47):
portable cmms and 3d laserscanning, so we can actually
laser, 3d laser scan a componentand compare it to a cad model
for inspection.
Um, the ferro laser tracker,you know we can inspect large
objects.
So they're the world ofmetrology.
It is a various, it is a widearray of tools that you may see
in manufacturing.
It depends on what, what areathat you go, you know, from
shipbuilding to the nuclearindustry.
Qc is a broad range of jobs, tobegin with, for the metrology
(08:13):
lab here in the Center forManufacturing Advancement.
Caleb Ayers (08:16):
I know one of the biggest selling points is the
coordinate measuring machinethat is in there.
That's, as I understand it, oneof the largest on the East
Coast.
So tell us a little bit aboutkind of some of the equipment
that's in that lab and how youall use that to help both here
for the Navy's AdditiveManufacturing Center and then
also to help other companies.
Tony Almeida (08:36):
Well, we've got an array of equipment over there.
We have a surface roughnesstester, we've got a contraor the
hardness tester.
We have a QV Apex, which is avision machine, high
magnification microscope.
We have a profile projector orcomparator.
(08:57):
You have a roundness tester andthen you have the Krista
AV1630-12, which is that largeCMM you see down there with a
laser and a vision probe and asurface tester probe on there
too.
And then you have the 9108,which is a smaller machine, same
(09:18):
family, just a smaller versionof the CMM.
So as far as the CMMs, you know,they bring in the 3D printed
part, okay.
Then they measure it right andthen they go ahead and heat,
treat it and do what they haveto do after the measurements and
then we measure it again andtell them what they've got to
(09:39):
take off.
They come back and then we doanother final inspection.
So, from my understanding,everything that is 3D printed
over there comes to the lab atleast three times.
So the CMM is a big part ofthat, because it'll measure in
three axes, it'll measure a lotfaster, it'll do the GD&T for
(10:02):
you.
Caleb Ayers (10:03):
What does that acronym mean?
Tony Almeida (10:06):
Geometrical Dimensioning and Tolerancing.
Okay, so you can do thatmanually, and that's.
Jared does teach that, which issomething that I feel is very
important for students to learnright.
For me, it's like learning thetheory.
If you know the theory behindwhat you're trying to do, it's
just much more easier to graspand understand.
(10:26):
So with the CMM, they'll goahead and do those measurements
and then, this way, when thepart is finished, hopefully it's
correct and it's not going tofail.
You don't want a part failingout in the middle of the ocean,
on the sub, you know.
So that's where metrology comesin.
It's very, very important.
Jarrod Hankins (10:45):
And when you look at the overall, to add to
what he's saying, the theoryaspect.
So a topic like geometricdimensioning and tolerancing,
there's two sides to that.
So you have some people thatunderstand the theory part of it
and they can interpret it, butbeing able to apply it so it's
two sides to that.
So being able to interpret andapply GD&T to your inspection,
(11:10):
it builds the foundation for youto understand what the CMM is
doing for you.
So instead of having a machinethat is programmed by someone
else and that machine inspectsthe part 100% and does a great
job doing it, thetroubleshooting part is where
that comes into play.
So if a problem happens or ifit's a mistake that's made,
(11:31):
you're able to catch that byhaving those troubleshooting
foundational skills ofunderstanding what it's doing
for you.
Caleb Ayers (11:38):
And for those listening who don't know, atdm
or Accelerated Training andDefense Manufacturing.
Like we said, five tracks andmetrology is one of them.
It's welding, cnc machining,additive manufacturing,
non-destructive testing.
The students who are coming in,many of them don't have
(12:00):
experience in these tracks.
I would say most of them don'thave previous experience in this
.
Jared, you are an exceptioncoming in, I wouldn't say an
exception.
There are many students whocome in with previous experience
for upskilling, exactly likeyou did, and then there are many
career seekers who come in withno previous experience.
So, jared, for you, as you'reinstructing these students, you
know you talked about you guyshave talked about the balance of
(12:21):
theory and application.
How do you balance cramming allof that in this program that's
four months, I mean that's apretty quick turnaround time.
How do you balance, kind ofgetting that theory, getting
that hands-on and preparingthese students for the jobs that
come next?
Jarrod Hankins (12:36):
One way that I approach that is trying to
balance out the classroom andactually lab time, so being able
to have the students in theclassroom and explain to them
what they're doing.
They are not going to grasp theconcept completely until they
actually put their hands on itand do it on their own.
So we start off with thegranite station and teach these
(12:58):
students how to inspectdimensional inspections and
geometric dimensioning andtolerance GD&T inspections
manually.
And they can apply that becauseonce you, once you put your
hands on it, the concept, thelight bulb clicks that's the
term that I like to see when youlook around the room and you
see a lot of confusion.
And then when you go down tothe lab and they get their hands
(13:21):
on their measurement tools andthe cmm and they start to
understand what it's actuallydoing, the light bulb clicks and
that starts that foundation tobuild on.
Caleb Ayers (13:30):
When you're talking about the tolerances and the
precision that y'all are talkingabout, there's a lot of math
involved, I'm assuming.
Certainly Sounds like somethingI would not enjoy.
Jarrod Hankins (13:42):
A lot of calculations, a lot of math.
My students have to be veryversed in right angle trig, so
we do a lot of trig Calculations.
Have to be very versed in rightangle trig, so we do a lot of
trig.
Calculations have to be perfect.
You know, one calculation erroryou can.
A cumulative error is badenough.
And then when you havecalculation error on top of that
, everything has some degree oftolerance.
(14:04):
And with that in mind, whenyou're inspecting parts that
people's lives are on the linewhether you're making a nuclear
reactor or something for afighter jet all of those come
into play.
When you look at the importanceof quality, we're the last
people that touch that before itactually goes to the customer.
(14:25):
So if we make a mistake itcould be detrimental to a
company or especially tosomebody if they're using the
product For both of y'all.
Caleb Ayers (14:34):
you all have done different jobs that involve
metrology.
Obviously, jared, now you'reinvolved in training the next
group, and Tony, you're moreinvolved on the sales and
industry side.
But what kind of are the rolesthat are in the metrology field?
(14:55):
Like is this?
I guess, yeah, what are theroles that are available to,
whether it be the studentscoming out of ATDM or for other
companies?
I mean, what are these roles?
What industries are we talkingabout that metrology is involved
in?
Tony Almeida (15:03):
Obviously in manufacturing right In any type
of manufacturing.
It could be plastic molding orinjection molding to aerospace,
to automotive, to medical device.
So every industry, even bottlecaps, right bottles, you know
everything is checked Right Toto make sure it's going to work.
(15:26):
So as far as industries, it'llfit all industries it's going to
work.
So as far as industries, it'llfit all industries.
So some of the roles could be acalibration technician okay,
where there's a lot ofcalibration labs out there In
ometology.
You could be a calibrationtechnician.
You can be a service technicianokay, where you can go ahead
and do the calibration on theselarger machines that you go out
(15:48):
in the field for.
You can be a CMM operator orjust a metrologist as well, a
quality manager I mean thosetype of jobs 100%.
Jarrod Hankins (16:06):
I mean I think you cover that very well.
A lot of my students go intomanufacturing, you know,
especially for the submarineindustrial base, inspecting
parts from the machine shopadditive manufacturing.
Some of my students also go into get more training from like
(16:27):
the NDST or the non-destructivetesting side of it, because NDT
and quality control are underthe same umbrella.
It, because the NDT and qualitycontrol are under the same
umbrella, but we just instead ofus doing dimensional inspection
, they do non-destructivetesting, so being able to look
inside of parts and inspecting,but also calibration techs.
I've had students that are nowat Michitoyo so they can
calibrate the tools that weactually use on a daily basis in
(16:49):
metrology.
Tony Almeida (16:50):
And they're nice jobs Air-conditioned room, clean
environment you know whowouldn't want that.
Caleb Ayers (16:57):
How do you go about calibrating the equipment that
you're using to measure?
That sounds also like veryprecise and important work.
Tony Almeida (17:04):
So we have standards that are calibrated at
a third party, usually NIST, sowe'll have masters calibrated
there and then we'll calibrateit in our own lab at Mitutoyo
and then we are A2LA accredited.
So we have procedures on how touse those standards, what
(17:24):
measurements, what angles andwhat repeatability tests,
probing tests.
So we just follow procedureswith calibrated artifacts.
Jarrod Hankins (17:36):
And to touch on that from our side, you know
Mitch and Toyo, they go toanother level of calibration.
You know for actually themanufacturer of the tooling.
For us, as QC inspectors, youknow we have to check our tools
for repeatability and to makesure they're calibrated on a
daily basis.
We use standards in the samefashion.
(17:56):
I know in my class the firstthing that I do when we start to
measure is I give the class afake ruler so I print off a lot
of different rulers in their ownpaper and most people say that
you know, I know how to use atape measure, I know how to read
a six inch ruler and they goaround and measure several
different parts and nobody getsthe same answer because none of
(18:20):
the rulers are the same.
And then I can speak on theimportance of calibration, that
everybody's inch is the sameinch that seems like that would
be a memorable.
Caleb Ayers (18:29):
It is memorable experience there.
Jarrod Hankins (18:31):
When you get students, especially older
students that have used tapemeasures and such for a long
time, and when they cannot getaccurate measurements, you know
they start to get agitated, likeI know what I'm doing.
And when they compare therulers to a standard or
calibrated ruler or to somebodyelse's, they see the problem.
Caleb Ayers (18:50):
You guys have talked about math.
You've talked about how youknow there's a lot of
trigonometry involved and a lotof you know you need to be able
to understand what thesetheories are before you can
actually apply them.
I guess what are some of theother main skills that it's
important for people who work inthis field to have?
Jarrod Hankins (19:08):
One thing that I would say as far as from the
education standpoint spatialvisualization, being able to
read a print.
You know, in order to be a CMMprogrammer, a QC inspector, you
have to be able to understandhow to read and interpret a
print.
Being able to look at a 2Dsheet of paper and visualize
(19:29):
what the part should look likeas a 3D object, that is one of
the hardest concepts to learn.
If you've never had to do it isto be able to look at what the
part should be like by a sheetof paper or print just this
weekend I was trying to build aswing set.
Caleb Ayers (19:46):
I'm glad that I had friends there who could help me
read the blueprints, becausethat's not, that is not my
strength, and obviously you guysare talking about blueprints
that are much more importantthan a swing set.
So is there anything that youguys really want to talk about
that you feel like we haven'thit yet?
Jarrod Hankins (20:00):
I would like to reach out.
You know, for our partners hereat Michitoyo at the great job
that they do of providing uswith precision instruments and
our CMMs.
This service is awesome.
They are great partners to havein this and they've helped us
out a lot.
Tony Almeida (20:19):
Thank you, and I'd like to add the importance of
what's going on here at thecenter.
I can't tell you how many timesI've been around.
I've been around this countryfor 39 years, visiting many,
many different types ofindustries.
And the number one problem, canyou guess?
We don't have the talent, wecan't find the people to run
(20:43):
this product or run the CMM, orrun this or run even a quality
lab okay, machinists, they'rehaving problems finding
machinists.
So what you guys are doing hereis very, very, very important.
I wish this was in every state10 times over, because it's very
(21:04):
much needed.
I'm glad to see that many, manyschools are now adopting this or
trying to.
I know we've sent many peoplehere to the center that have
reached out to Mitutoyo andwe'll get in touch with Jeremiah
or somebody here, or Troy orsomebody, and see if we can set
(21:25):
something up, because it's justsomething that is lacking in
this country for a long, longtime.
I mean, there's just, you know,these kids don't have to go to
college if they can't go tocollege or if they're not A
students or they have problemwith this type of school.
Maybe they're good with theirhands, you know.
Maybe they're good with robotictype machines, you know.
(21:46):
They need to understand thatthere's another path, and that's
what you guys are providing isanother path, a well-paid path.
These jobs pay pretty good, youknow.
So I thank you guys for doingthat.
Jarrod Hankins (22:00):
I see the importance also is supporting
our submarine industrial base.
You know I feel proud every dayto come in and feel that I'm
helping out as far as thedeficiency that we have in
workers in our defenseindustrial base, seeing students
come in, that some are youngand I've had students that were
(22:23):
18.
I've had some students thatwere 72.
And some people that would comein and just look for a career
path change.
Or some people that didn't wantto necessarily go to a
four-year college but learn askill set.
Didn't want to necessarily goto a four-year college but learn
a skill set.
And these skill sets arevaluable to our country because
whether you're going to be amachinist or a welder, quality
(22:45):
control inspector, an additivemanufacturer or even an NDT
inspector, they all contributeto helping support our defense
industrial base and using thoseskills.
You know, as an American, weowe everything we have to our
United States military and thepeople that have went and fought
(23:05):
for the freedoms and theprivileges that we have and I
feel honored to be a part of aprogram that's supporting that.
Caleb Ayers (23:11):
Yeah, and I guess we didn't touch on that.
But so much up top.
But yeah, that these, these twoprograms are, you know, atdm is
training the workforce and thenthe Additive Manufacturing
Center of Excellence here and onour campus is, you know,
basically in technologydevelopment, for how do you 3D
print parts effectively?
And that's what Mitutoyo isinvolved in, and just the
(23:33):
interconnection between thosetwo things happening on the same
campus.
You know those, I guess, yeah,contributions to our national
defense, whether it be byproviding workers so that
companies who are makingsubmarines can continue to make
submarines, or whether it beproviding, you know, recipes for
how to use new manufacturingprocess so those companies can
(23:53):
better make parts for ships andsubmarines.
It's really cool to see all ofthat come together in one place
and clearly, as you guys haveoutlined.
You know, metrology is a really, really big, important part of
that.
So, yeah, thank you guys forbeing here today, thanks for
helping show kind of.
You know what this field is andyou know that's.
I know it's the science ofmeasurement.
You know you started with that.
That's when I started doing myresearch.
(24:13):
When I first got here I waslike, okay, science of
measurement got it, but you guyshave broken that, broken that
down in a very interesting,simple way, so I really really
appreciate that.
Anything else to add before wego?
Tony Almeida (24:23):
thanks for having us.
I enjoy coming here every time.
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