June 2, 2025 • 35 mins
Registered apprenticeships pair paid, hands-on work with classroom lessons to grow dependable talent. In this Inside IALR episode, host Caleb Ayers talks with:
- Natori Neal – Apprenticeship Coordinator, IALR’s EXTRA program
- Jenny Spitzer – Co-owner, Spitzer Inc. (electrical contractors)
- Josh Arnold – Master Electrician and lead instructor at Spitzer
- Jacob Oakes – Second-year electrical apprentice
They share insights on:
- How a registered apprenticeship is structured, from day-one wages to a journeyman credential
- Building curriculum around the employer’s real work
- Why covering tuition and books helps apprentices focus and stay
- Choosing the right mentors
- Starting with small cohorts to emphasize quality over head-count
- Utilizing the free support from IALR’s EXTRA program for designing, funding and sustaining apprenticeship programs
The Institute for Advanced Learning and Research serves as a regional catalyst for economic transformation in Southern Virginia. Our services, programs and offerings are diverse, impactful and far reaching.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Caleb Ayers (00:09):
Welcome to another episode of Inside IALR.
Thanks for joining us.
So today we're here to talkabout apprenticeships and kind
of some success stories, lessonslearned, lessons being learned,
best practices for runningeffective apprenticeship
programs.
So first I'm going to turn itover to.
We have four guests today and Iwill let each of you all
introduce yourselves.
Natori Neal (00:29):
I'm Notori Neal, the Apprenticeship Coordinator
too here at the Institute forAdvanced Learning and Research,
and I basically coordinate theInstitute's Expanding Talent
through RegisteredApprenticeship Program, or EXTRA
for short.
Jenny Spitzer (00:41):
I'm Jenny Spitzer .
I'm part owner of SpitzerIncorporated.
We're electrical contractors inVirginia and North Carolina.
Josh Arnold (00:48):
I'm Josh Arnold and I am the lead teacher for our
program for our electricalapprenticeship.
Jacob Oakes (00:53):
I'm Jacob Oaks and I'm the apprentice for Spitzer
Electric.
Caleb Ayers (00:58):
Awesome.
Well, thank you guys all forbeing here today.
Really appreciate that.
So first, I mean, we'll get thebasics out of the way.
Apprenticeships, notori, I'lllet you take this one.
Apprenticeships are a verysuccessful model for bringing on
new employees, so it's a, youknow, sort of talent retention
and recruitment tool.
So, notori, tell us a littlebit about kind of what is the
(01:18):
structure, generally speaking,of an apprenticeship program.
Natori Neal (01:21):
Absolutely so.
Apprenticeship basicallycombines on-the-job training
that's the hands-on learningthat apprentices get you know,
from clocking in and clockingout to work every day, and you
know working in the field ifthey're outside, and that sort
of thing.
So it's on-the-job trainingcombined with mentorship Mentors
are usually mentoringapprentices at a one-to to one
(01:44):
ratio and then related technicalinstruction, which is a fancy
way of saying curriculum,classroom instruction, the
education that basicallyexplains you know the why behind
the what that they're doing onthe job on a day to day basis.
Then that is also combined withwages.
(02:05):
So apprentices are paidemployees from day one and as
they gain skills, their employeridentifies the frequency and
the amount of wage increasesthat they get for skills
attainment until they reach whatwe call their journey worker
status or their experienceworker status, when they
(02:25):
complete a registeredapprenticeship program.
Completion is marked bysuccessful completion of
on-the-job training and relatedtechnical instruction.
And then there is thatnationally recognized credential
at the end of it.
So they do get the nationallyrecognized credential and
journey worker card in Virginiafor completing a registered
apprenticeship program.
Caleb Ayers (02:45):
Awesome.
So yeah, obviously you knowyou're talking about that mix of
on the job training andeducation kind of going together
and the apprentice or employeebeing paid for both of those
things.
Jenny, tell me a little bitabout Spitzer, kind of what you
all do first, and then how youall landed on the need for an
apprenticeship program for yourorganization.
Jenny Spitzer (03:05):
Okay, so we started in March of 2009.
And over the years we slowlygrew, hiring people in the
community.
Some had electrical backgrounds, some did not, and what we
found was we were trainingpeople from the ground up to
begin with, but we had no way ata state level for them to
(03:27):
recognize, you know, that theyhad the skill set to sit for a
test until they had, basically,I think it's 10 years.
They have to work, you know,for someone before they can test
if they don't have theeducation piece.
And so you know, flash forwardto 2022, 2020, I think I've met
with notori in 22 um and I saidlook, what can I do to get the
(03:52):
education piece that the staterecognizes?
How does this work?
She was great.
She met with me for like anhour and a half, two hours, and
then I started looking intoapprenticeship.
I didn't pull the trigger rightaway because I really wanted to
get the education piece rightand I researched lots of
different options for educationand we landed on the education
(04:12):
piece going through a companycalled NCCER, which is kind of
the model used for the trades,and they've been in.
Nccer has been around theircurriculum for 26 or 7 years now
.
They've been in NCCER, has beenaround their curriculum for 26
or seven years now.
They're amazing curriculum, andso once I had the curriculum
piece in place that I wanted touse, I went back to Notori and
(04:38):
we got all the paperwork inplace and we started the program
.
And then Jacob came on, Ibelieve in June of 23.
And so he's coming up in twoweeks.
You'll be here two years and um.
That's how we kind of got theball rolling.
Caleb Ayers (04:49):
We got certified, josh got certified to teach the
curriculum, um, to test everyone, and so far, so good so you all
are doing all of the relatedtechnical instruction in-house
with the curriculum from okay,so, josh, you're in charge of
teaching.
Josh Arnold (05:05):
Yeah, so I do all the classroom as well as some of
the related initial hands-onskills and skill testing, and
then I also work with them allof our apprentices, which now
will be up to hopefully foursoon and work with them out in
the field as well, as well ashelping them pair with some of
the other guys to have somementoring.
(05:27):
We have different people whoreally stand out in different
areas of the field who do better.
You know, some are better andstronger with residential work,
Some are better and strongerwith the commercial work
generators, solar panels,different things like that.
Everybody has a little bitvaried experience.
Most of the other guys are allcoming up or have far exceeded
(05:49):
10 years in the field, and sothey have different backgrounds
and it really helps with gettingthem a different experience
when they're out there workingwith the other guys.
Caleb Ayers (05:58):
And Jacob for you.
How did you end up here?
Jacob Oakes (06:00):
So back in high school I wasn't exactly sure
what I wanted to do.
I was more creative on what Iwanted to do.
I was more creative on what Ilike doing and I talked to a
relative of mine on, like filmediting.
That's something I was reallyinterested in and he said it was
not a stable job and that Ishould not do it.
And so I was like, well, theregoes all my plans and I was kind
(06:24):
of just trying to figure it out.
Take it slow.
My dad came up to me and waslike, have you ever considered a
trade?
He felt like it would be betterfor me because I don't really
like sitting in an office area,and so I started kind of looking
into that, looking intodifferent ones, which one I
thought would work best for me,and I came across Electrical.
(06:44):
I was like like I'll doelectrical.
And then I found them throughmy brother who's in a.
What would you?
Jenny Spitzer (06:51):
describe.
His brother and I are in thesame business group okay, so I
heard about them through that.
Jacob Oakes (06:59):
That's kind of how it all worked out for me.
Caleb Ayers (07:02):
That's awesome.
And, jenny, I want to go backto what you said too.
So basically, you're sayingthat a lot of the training that
you all were doing, you werebasically training people from
the ground up, but there wasjust no way to like officially
recognize that that training washappening, so that this was a
way for for to make sure thatyour employees had those
credentials, had thoserecognitions of their skills.
Jenny Spitzer (07:21):
Correct.
The need was very strong.
There were not.
We did not find adequateeducation in our area for what
we do.
We are electrical contractors,you know.
We do residential, we docommercial, we do solar, we do
(07:41):
generators.
But we've done solar since, youknow, before 09, my husband ran
the electrical side of my dad'scontracting company before we
went out on our own.
It's not like we're just jumpedon the solar bandwagon, you
know what I mean.
Like same thing with the otherstuff.
We've been doing generators 10,15 years.
I mean it's been, it's beenpretty much the whole time.
It's not something like oh, wejust recently jumped on the
(08:03):
generator bandwagon.
This is something that we do andwe believe firmly in education.
Like if you don't know, youdon't grow, and so we send our
guys to school to recertify onthings all the time.
Like we, we strongly believe inthe education piece.
Um, because you don't want toget stagnant in what you do,
there's always new technologyperiod and so if we can't find
(08:30):
we were getting students, eitherone out of high school, out of
college, out of factories,people saying I want to try
something different and theydidn't have basic skill sets to
work in the trades, whether it'sreading a ruler or just basic
math, like doing fractional math, which is you're doing the
trades all the time, and thatwas a big problem.
(08:53):
So then it was like I needsomething that really starts
from the very basic of basicsand continues all the way up
through theoretical math, motorcontrols.
I think Jacob just did a unitthat had a lot of calculus with
motor controls.
I think Jacob just did a unitthat had a lot of calculus with
motor controls and things likethat.
But it's really hard to takesomebody in the field who
doesn't have the fundamentals.
And you can tell someone topull a wire from here to there
(09:16):
but if they're not understandingwhat they're doing or why
they're doing it, that's aproblem.
So having the education pieceto start from the beginning and
go all the way through reallyhelps them to solidify it when
they get the on-the-job trainingpart and they see it all come
together, why it works, the waythat they were taught.
So that was really huge for usus.
Caleb Ayers (09:37):
Notori.
You mentioned Jenny, you hadmentioned, you know, meeting
with Notori, the supportprovided.
Give a quick rundown of theExtra program and kind of the
resources and support that youall provide for organizations
across all of Southern Virginiaand launching apprenticeship
programs.
Natori Neal (09:55):
Absolutely so.
Extra is very much informed byemployers.
A lot of people have theinitial misconception that Extra
is the apprenticeship programand maintain and administer
their apprenticeship programsand even, you know, expanding
(10:25):
that, scaling that to size, andso we do things such as you know
.
When we met with Jenny, or Imet with Jenny for the first
time, we have that discussion.
You know this is whatapprenticeship is.
Apprenticeship is not aninternship.
Although internship is a greatwork-based learning model as
well, apprenticeship is not aninternship and those terms
(10:47):
aren't used interchangeably.
So this is what apprenticeshipis.
These are your responsibilitiesas an employer.
I am very passionate aboutworking with employers to ensure
that the program is developedto meet their needs.
Their on-the-job training isformulated and then the
on-the-job training needs informthe related technical
(11:07):
instruction and the employer'sother needs.
You know travel, distance andyou know cost and that sort of
thing all play a role in thedevelopment of their program.
And so we have thosediscussions, their needs
discussions, and then we move onto program development.
In that development phase theemployer is there the entire
time, being an activeparticipant in what's needed.
(11:29):
I just kind of handle themanagement of the project and
ensuring that partners areinvolved at the right time in
order not to overwhelm theemployers if the employer needs
resources.
As far as related technicalinstruction, where are all the
possible RTI or where can youget all of the related technical
instruction in this area?
(11:51):
You can do it in-house yourself, like the Spitzers, you can get
it from a community college,you can source it from a
university or even an onlinetraining provider here in
Virginia.
So there are a lot of optionsand being transparent is what
really helps employers and youknow myself in that process.
(12:11):
Not only am I, you know,focusing on getting them their
program developed.
I want to learn more abouttheir company and seeing where
those needs are.
You know, in the future isthere room to expand with solar
being as big as it is now?
You know, in the future,spitzer could decide, hey, we're
going to have something more,so along the lines with energy.
(12:31):
So having that room forconversation, also in working
with employers and, you know,developing those programs, just
the feedback is essential duringall phases, even after the
program is developed.
You know Jenny might come to meand say, hey, tori, is there
funding available for this or isthere resources available to
(12:54):
help me get connected with thispopulation of individuals
Because we want to offeropportunities to high school
students.
How can I get in?
Offer opportunities to highschool students?
How can I get in front of thosehigh school students?
So just being very responsive,very proactive and then also
listening and being transparenthelps a lot when working with
employers to develop, registerand then maintain those
(13:16):
relationships and maintainingthe success of their programs.
Jenny Spitzer (13:19):
Yeah, I have her on speed dial.
Literally True, true story,absolutely relationship and
maintaining the success of theirprograms.
Natori Neal (13:23):
Yeah, I have her on speed dial.
Caleb Ayers (13:28):
Literally True story?
Absolutely, yeah, and I lovethe.
You know the variety of supportthat Extra provides.
You know it's that.
You know helping develop theprogram itself, helping maintain
the program.
You know support withrecruitment, I know there's.
You know there's grantsinvolved for salary for the
helping find those relatedtechnical instruction
opportunities, as you said.
So it's definitely a lot ofdifferent ways that companies
can be supported by the extraprogram.
I kind of want to switch gearsa little bit and just talk about
(13:52):
generally in the room what aresome of the, I guess, best
practices that you all see forapprenticeship programs from
your perspective.
So I mean, obviously, notori,you're working with companies
all over the region, so you'regoing to have the more.
I would imagine you would havemore broad analysis to that,
whereas Jenny, I mean you'reseeing it from what have we seen
(14:13):
in our company?
And I mean Jacob, you're sayingwhat have I seen in my
experience.
So I mean I want to hear fromall of you of kind of what do
you think are the?
Jenny Spitzer (14:27):
I mean I want to hear from all of you of kind of
what do you think are the Iguess the you know best
practices or keys to asuccessful apprenticeship.
So this is new, so we're stillI mean, we're two years in and
we're still kind of learningwhat some of the best practices
are how to get in front of theright people, the right age
group, people who are curiousabout it but don't understand
what electrical is or what theapprenticeship program involves.
People who have worked otherjobs and just said I don't want
(14:50):
to sit at a desk all day.
So for us it's trying to talkto different people in different
avenues.
I do speak at a business groupevery single week and I speak
with them and ask them to spreadthe word.
I have talked to homeschoolers.
I have went in front of highschoolers, um, and then I reach
out to Notori to help me kind ofbroaden that um, just to bring
(15:12):
people in the door and just tokind of do a greater education
of what we do and why we do itthis way.
I'm open to learning anything.
I want a small learning curveon this.
You know what I mean.
There are going to be thingsthat we're going to learn along
the way and as simply and aseasily as we can learn it, that
would be great.
(15:33):
I rely heavily on her.
So if I have questions, if Iget paperwork or I get something
and I don't understand it, I'mlike, tori, am I reading this
right?
Am I seeing this correct?
And there have been times whenshe and I have come across
something that's just notwhether it's a grant or whether
it's whatever tax credits, andI'm like, okay, am I reading
(15:53):
this correct?
And she's been able to help menavigate those waters.
As far as with Jacob and Josh,I just have to say, josh, kudos,
thank you very much.
I'm like I'm so grateful thathe took on the role of the
education piece and I'm justlike, whatever you need, tell me
, we'll get it there to.
To make things easier, I try todo the same for Jacob and all
(16:15):
the apprentices.
The door's open.
I want you guys to talk to us.
I want it to be opencommunication.
I want you guys to feelcomfortable to talk to Josh or
to myself or to anybody, and Ithink if we keep the
communication open, I thinkwe'll do well.
We really try to promotequality over quantity.
There's a reason we don't have20 apprentices right now.
(16:36):
I want it to be slow growth,because I want them to really
understand and learn and that'sa that's a big one for me and I
want, at the end of this, I wantJacob to be a craftsman, not
just an apprentice.
You know, I want him to comeout of it as a master
electrician and I want him to bea craftsman at what he does.
Caleb Ayers (16:57):
And how long is y'all's apprenticeship program?
Last Four years, four years,okay, and obviously at the end
of that those apprentices arejust regular employees.
Jenny Spitzer (17:05):
Yes, so I mean, ultimately, one of the reasons I
get try to get in front of thehigh schoolers and try to get in
front of colleges is because itis a four year thing.
It is a different outlet than acollege or a university.
But I'm like, if you come in,you know 18 years old, you know
22, 23, 24,.
I want the ability to give youa truck, a set of keys, a plan
(17:26):
and say run this job, you'relicensed, right.
We've invested four years togetting you to this point and
you know your wages are paidalong the way.
So we're invested in you,hoping you invest back in us and
help our company to grow.
Josh Arnold (17:42):
I would say one of the biggest things for people
either looking at starting theirown apprenticeship program or
those who are looking to getinto apprenticeship program if
you're going into the company toeven start talking about it,
seeing what their curriculum isand what it's based around.
Curriculum is and what it'sbased around.
(18:05):
We use a nationally recognizedone that's NCCER.
That not only is providing thecore curriculum and helpful
other things, they have booksthat are being put out for each
of the modules and everything,so you actually have a true
textbook.
You have review questions, youhave module tests, you have
hands-on exercises, you havehands-on testing to make sure
(18:27):
that not only have you got theconcept down but you're able to
start developing skills toactually use your hands and do
it and make sure that you trulyunderstand.
You don't get partway throughand go yeah, I don't understand
why I'm doing this, I don'tunderstand what I'm supposed to
do next, and it really helpswith that.
So I would want to know if Iwas going into an apprenticeship
(18:48):
program myself, I would want toknow what their curriculum is,
or if they even have a truecurriculum, because this one is
nationally recognized.
So not only does it allow youfor our state currently to walk
away at the end of the fouryears with a journeyman's
license for the state, but thenyou know that that license can
then be used to go other placesin the country if you really
(19:09):
wanted to.
To try to find states that willreciprocate the license and
allow you to to, you know, fillout all the proper paperwork,
prove that you had the licenseand have held the license for so
long, and be able to actuallyget a license in another state.
For some people that may betheir end goal.
They want to get through theprogram, stay a few years and
then they want to transition to.
(19:30):
Maybe they're across thecountry from where they grew up
and they want to get back there.
But they want to move back witha skill set that allows them to
go home to where the the restof their family lives and and be
there and be successful I guessfor me I would say I kind of
agree with both jenny and joshon that.
Jacob Oakes (19:47):
It's.
It's important you findsomewhere with an environment
where you can feel comfortableand you're not like scared to
make a mistake or something andend up because that's part of
learning is you.
You make mistakes and you'vegot to learn from those mistakes
.
If you're too scared toactually end up doing that, then
you'll never end up learninganything.
With Josh too, I agree with thewhole.
(20:09):
You have to find somewhere witha good curriculum, somewhere
with a good form of learning.
You want to make sure itmatches what you want, to make
sure it kind of matches what youwant, what you want to go with,
because there's a lot.
There's a wide variety of uhdirections, you can go with
electrical, and so if I wasdoing this to go work somewhere
(20:34):
that does not involve any formof construction at all, then
it'd be almost not pointless.
But but you know you'd have goodfundamentals, but I would have
good fundamentals, but I wouldhave to kind of learn more than
what I'm being taught here.
Caleb Ayers (20:48):
So this curriculum specifically for you, I mean
over the last two years.
How have you seen what has thatbeen like getting that mix of
you know you're learning thebasics, the fundamentals, and
you know in the classroom withJosh, and you're learning out in
the field at the same time.
How have those two things cometogether and what has that been
like?
Jacob Oakes (21:04):
It can be kind of interesting when you get to
working with something and thenyou remember that you've read it
in a textbook somewhere andthat can be kind of helpful.
For me it's really helpful whenI'm reading the textbook.
I'm reading something and I'veremembered doing it in the past,
(21:26):
so then I have something I canput with the textbook to make it
real.
Almost it's not just words on apage anymore, or vice versa, if
I read something in thetextbook and then go do it in
the field.
Jenny Spitzer (21:33):
What I like about this program, and what I like
about apprenticeship in general,is it takes different learning
styles and it puts them alltogether.
If you're a tactile learner,you're going to learn in the
field.
If you're an analytical learner, you're reading it, you're
getting it, but you're stillmeshing those two together.
Whether you're an auditorylearner, whatever visual learner
(21:54):
Josh has PowerPoints, he'sspeaking, you're learning
different ways and you'reputting them all together on the
job site.
And that's huge because I thinkwhen you just not for everyone,
but there are certain sect ofpeople who, when they go sit in
a university, they're justhearing words all day and it
doesn't register as easily right?
(22:15):
Some people are just they canget it, they're analytical, they
can read it, they get it, theycan hear it, they get it.
And other people really have todo whatever they're learning
with their hands to reallysolidify it in their mind, and
that's what I really like aboutthis curriculum.
Josh Arnold (22:29):
Yeah, it definitely offers a nice blend of multiple
learning styles and then, ofcourse, you know I try to tailor
to each level the way theylearn best.
You know whether they're.
You know we get some people whocan just read it and that's
fine and they'll remember it all, and we get other people that
(22:50):
they can read it but it doesn'tmake any sense to them.
And so then being able to turnaround, you know the same day or
another day, you know anotherday that week or or as close as
we can, depending on the jobs,going on and go out and actually
do it and look at it what itlooks like in the real life.
Because you know they mayexplain something through the
curriculum but we may never seeit in our normal work as a
(23:15):
business.
So some of those things are likeindustrial job sites, you know,
through huge factories we don'tdo a lot with industrials.
We don't do a lot withindustrials.
So you know open cable traysfor running all the wiring and
everything, or complex bendingfor piping everything, every
single thing in the entirebuilding.
You know we can read about it,but then you know trying to find
(23:37):
other avenues, like we'vewatched different videos on some
of the stuff, so you can see itas they're going through and
what they're doing and you canbe like, oh, I get what they're
talking about now, for how thisis supported, whereas before it
was like oh, why would they evendo it that way?
Well, there's always a reason,but sometimes they don't include
the reasons for things whenyou're just reading about it.
(24:00):
So when you can actually seesomebody who does it all the
time and see them explaining it,well, this is why we have to do
it, or this is why it worksbest.
It solidifies that in theirminds and helps them to remember
it all.
Jenny Spitzer (24:16):
When it comes to, like Jacob said, with
electrical, you could dolow-voltage stuff all day long
if that's the career fields youwant to go in, or you could be a
lineman and you could travelwith a power company throughout
every major storm in the UnitedStates you know what I mean and
you could be going, you know,state to state, whether it's
hurricanes or blizzards ortornadoes or whatever you know.
Or you could do residentialhousing or you could do
commercial.
I mean you get the foundationand your avenues in which you
(24:39):
choose to pursue having theelectrical license are so vast
and they vary so much, and Istrongly, strongly believe you
have to have a curriculum thattouches all of that, because you
do need to have somefundamentals on all of it.
Natori Neal (24:53):
What Jenny was saying is very relevant.
Apprenticeship programs arecustomized to meet the needs of
the employer while also adheringto industry standards.
With Spitzer Incorporated, theydon't do a lot of industrial
electrical work.
They do a lot of residentialand commercial and generators
and solar work.
So the emphasis of theirprogram is on that.
(25:14):
Their apprentices are exposedto industrial electrical.
But you know, when you'recustomizing that and when Josh
is teaching the relatedtechnical instruction, most of
the emphasis is placed on thework that they actually do in
the workforce, whereas if amanufacturing employer with an
electrical registeredapprenticeship program, they
(25:34):
would be focusing more on thoseindustrial components while
still maybe providing exposureto some of those other
components like generators andin residential things of that
nature.
But their emphasis will be onthe work that they're doing
every day on the job.
So a best practice iscustomizing it to meet the
(25:54):
employer's needs and wherethey're also able to prepare an
electrician or any otheremployee in any occupation to be
successful, whether they'redoing it you know, here in
Danville for this one company,or here in Pennsylvania County
for a company, or they wanted totake it across country into
(26:15):
Alaska and work as anelectrician or something another
occupation.
So when you're.
When companies establishregistered apprenticeship
programs.
Yes, there are industrystandards that have to be met,
but that customization is key,you know, for companies to
develop and establish thatworker, that employee, for their
(26:37):
company to be successful andgrow and hopefully retain them
for years to come.
Hopefully retain them for yearsto come.
And when apprentices completetheir apprenticeship programs,
especially in the trades ofelectrical plumbing, hvac now in
Virginia they have eliminatedthe requirement to sit for their
DPOR journeyman's licensureexam.
(26:58):
So in those three trades thereare other ones, but for the sake
of this electrical plumbing,hvac they complete a registered
apprenticeship program.
It has to be registered andthey get the proof of completion
.
They no longer have to sit forthat journeyman's exam that Josh
probably had to sit for andJosh can tell you about that.
(27:20):
Josh is a master electrician, sothat's another benefit to you
know the Spitzer program.
They're not being trained bysomeone who has never worked in
the field.
Josh is a master electricianwho still very much works in the
field.
And so they have they're ableto say, okay, this day is my
dedicated class day, and youknow structure class at a time
(27:43):
that works for them.
You know when they want to holdclass.
They usually have a set day,but you know, if they have a
project that's, you know runningover time, they can alter their
class days and rearrange thingslike that.
Josh Arnold (27:57):
Or when people are sick, or when people are sick.
Natori Neal (28:00):
Exactly.
So, they can.
They have that and that's abenefit for Spitzer With.
Another best practice I've seenis companies, employers,
covering the cost of relatedtechnical instruction for their
(28:21):
employees or their apprentices.
Jacob hasn't had to come out ofpocket for anything as far as
his education is concernedbecause Spitzer is carrying that
and that's the best practicethat we see.
Whether it's a manufacturerusing a community college, the
manufacturer covers the tuition,covers the books, that sort of
thing.
So the apprentice can focussolely on coming to work every
day, doing their best in classand then learning on the job and
(28:45):
then not having to worry aboutany debt that they have to pay
back at the conclusion of theirregistered apprenticeship
program.
As an intermediary in thisspace that's helped set up
multiple you know about 35, 36registered apprenticeship
programs and that's stillgrowing year to date
apprenticeship programs andthat's still growing year to
date and have seen over 100apprentices, you know, actively
(29:16):
involved in their apprenticeshipprograms.
I see things such as employersmaybe not, not maybe, let's say,
when it's coming to selecting amentor.
They open that up to theemployees who they, you know,
currently have working for themto say, hey, we're having an
apprenticeship program, we'reestablishing one, we're going to
need mentors for ourapprentices and then, instead of
(29:37):
volunteering someone to dobecoming a mentor, asking them
to become the mentor for anapprentice, or presenting it as
an opportunity to shareknowledge and letting those
experienced employees opt in tobeing a mentor has been
something that I've seen besuccessful because when those
mentors are sharing knowledgeand, you know, being patient and
(29:59):
encouraging those apprenticeswho are learning on the job to
hopefully get to the level ofthose mentors, you want someone
who wants to do that and not,you know, be forced to do it.
I've also seen having thatfeedback, that constant
communication between employersI have.
You know you can call mewhenever you need me.
(30:21):
You can email me if you needanything, any questions.
Nothing's off limits.
So that's been a best practicethat we've seen through Extra
and working with SouthernVirginia employers.
Just let me know if you needanything at all, if it's a form
you need emailed.
If you need me to come and talkto parents about what
(30:42):
registered apprenticeship is inorder to get buy-in parents
about what registeredapprenticeship is in order to
get buy-in, to get youthapprentices into your program, I
will do it.
So, having that constantfeedback, my employer partners
inform almost everything, suchas you know how we go about
grant funding opportunities, howthe grant process is working,
(31:03):
what's needed.
Do they need anything from thestate that I can communicate to
our state?
Apprenticeship consultants orofficials within Virginia Works.
So having that communicationand then having that network.
Let's say, for instance, jenny,they have apprenticeship
featured prominently on theirapprenticeship website.
(31:25):
They have apprenticeshipfeatured prominently on their
apprenticeship website.
Jenny worked with anotherapprenticeship partner who
helped build that website and sothey work together and the
apprenticeship partner whohelped build the website has
said hey, we want to featureapprenticeship, you know, to
(31:46):
attract people to our workplaceand to gain buy-in from the
public.
The other apprenticeshippartner knew was well-versed in
apprenticeship to know you knowwhat should be featured on this
webpage and you know how shouldwe talk about apprenticeship.
So they're there to also helpeach other within the extra
network.
So forming that and it's stillgrowing every day and we're
(32:12):
working on how do we bring theseemployers together to have more
meaningful discussions.
Our extra employer partners havebeen involved in conversations
with political officials.
What's working, what do youneed, what supports are needed,
and so that also gives theemployers another you know
(32:34):
grounds for support, knowingthat, hey, you know my voice is
heard.
Nothing is falling on deaf earswhen it comes to our
apprenticeship programs andbeing that, apprenticeship is
being promoted locally, on thestate level and even nationally.
The president recentlyannounced a goal for one million
apprentices by the end of histerm.
In Virginia, governor Youngkinhas a goal of 20,000 apprentices
(32:57):
by the end of his term.
So we're doing everything thatwe can, you know, as an
intermediary in the space, asemployers in the space space, to
ensure that we're able to onecreate these opportunities and
then support the employers whoare responsible for establishing
and providing theseopportunities to these
apprentices who are seeking, youknow, learn and earn job,
(33:21):
employment opportunities.
Caleb Ayers (33:24):
Yeah, no, and this was a lot of good best practices
.
I was sitting over here takingnotes.
I got a whole list of stuff.
So I think, yeah, you knowthose main ideas of the
customization of apprenticeshipis definitely a good selling
point for any company that'sconsidering this is, you know
that ability to?
Yes, there are requirements.
Yes, there are thosefundamentals that need to be
taught, but these should and canbe customized to exactly what
(33:46):
your workspace looks like.
And you know that this forapprentices, that these should
be and are created to be, sothat, jenny, as you said, that
someone who walks in withbasically no knowledge or skills
in these areas that you wouldexpect if you were hiring for a
traditional employmentopportunity that you can teach
(34:08):
those from the ground up.
There's a lot more that youguys said, but we'll stop it
there.
And again, as Notori said, sheis happy to help for any
employer across GoVirginiaRegion 3.
That's 15 localities generallyin southern Virginia that are
interested in apprenticeship.
Notorious is happy to help setthose up.
(34:29):
So anything else that you guyswant to add before we go?
Natori Neal (34:32):
Extra's here to help if you need anything.
Caleb Ayers (34:34):
Thank you Well thank you all for being here.
We appreciate it, thank you,thank you.
Welcome to another episode of Inside IALR.
Thanks for joining us.
So today we're here to talkabout apprenticeships and kind
of some success stories, lessonslearned, lessons being learned,
best practices for runningeffective apprenticeship
programs.
So first I'm going to turn itover to.
We have four guests today and Iwill let each of you all
introduce yourselves.
Natori Neal (00:29):
I'm Notori Neal, the Apprenticeship Coordinator
too here at the Institute forAdvanced Learning and Research,
and I basically coordinate theInstitute's Expanding Talent
through RegisteredApprenticeship Program, or EXTRA
for short.
Jenny Spitzer (00:41):
I'm Jenny Spitzer .
I'm part owner of SpitzerIncorporated.
We're electrical contractors inVirginia and North Carolina.
Josh Arnold (00:48):
I'm Josh Arnold and I am the lead teacher for our
program for our electricalapprenticeship.
Jacob Oakes (00:53):
I'm Jacob Oaks and I'm the apprentice for Spitzer
Electric.
Caleb Ayers (00:58):
Awesome.
Well, thank you guys all forbeing here today.
Really appreciate that.
So first, I mean, we'll get thebasics out of the way.
Apprenticeships, notori, I'lllet you take this one.
Apprenticeships are a verysuccessful model for bringing on
new employees, so it's a, youknow, sort of talent retention
and recruitment tool.
So, notori, tell us a littlebit about kind of what is the
(01:18):
structure, generally speaking,of an apprenticeship program.
Natori Neal (01:21):
Absolutely so.
Apprenticeship basicallycombines on-the-job training
that's the hands-on learningthat apprentices get you know,
from clocking in and clockingout to work every day, and you
know working in the field ifthey're outside, and that sort
of thing.
So it's on-the-job trainingcombined with mentorship Mentors
are usually mentoringapprentices at a one-to to one
(01:44):
ratio and then related technicalinstruction, which is a fancy
way of saying curriculum,classroom instruction, the
education that basicallyexplains you know the why behind
the what that they're doing onthe job on a day to day basis.
Then that is also combined withwages.
(02:05):
So apprentices are paidemployees from day one and as
they gain skills, their employeridentifies the frequency and
the amount of wage increasesthat they get for skills
attainment until they reach whatwe call their journey worker
status or their experienceworker status, when they
(02:25):
complete a registeredapprenticeship program.
Completion is marked bysuccessful completion of
on-the-job training and relatedtechnical instruction.
And then there is thatnationally recognized credential
at the end of it.
So they do get the nationallyrecognized credential and
journey worker card in Virginiafor completing a registered
apprenticeship program.
Caleb Ayers (02:45):
Awesome.
So yeah, obviously you knowyou're talking about that mix of
on the job training andeducation kind of going together
and the apprentice or employeebeing paid for both of those
things.
Jenny, tell me a little bitabout Spitzer, kind of what you
all do first, and then how youall landed on the need for an
apprenticeship program for yourorganization.
Jenny Spitzer (03:05):
Okay, so we started in March of 2009.
And over the years we slowlygrew, hiring people in the
community.
Some had electrical backgrounds, some did not, and what we
found was we were trainingpeople from the ground up to
begin with, but we had no way ata state level for them to
(03:27):
recognize, you know, that theyhad the skill set to sit for a
test until they had, basically,I think it's 10 years.
They have to work, you know,for someone before they can test
if they don't have theeducation piece.
And so you know, flash forwardto 2022, 2020, I think I've met
with notori in 22 um and I saidlook, what can I do to get the
(03:52):
education piece that the staterecognizes?
How does this work?
She was great.
She met with me for like anhour and a half, two hours, and
then I started looking intoapprenticeship.
I didn't pull the trigger rightaway because I really wanted to
get the education piece rightand I researched lots of
different options for educationand we landed on the education
(04:12):
piece going through a companycalled NCCER, which is kind of
the model used for the trades,and they've been in.
Nccer has been around theircurriculum for 26 or 7 years now
.
They've been in NCCER, has beenaround their curriculum for 26
or seven years now.
They're amazing curriculum, andso once I had the curriculum
piece in place that I wanted touse, I went back to Notori and
(04:38):
we got all the paperwork inplace and we started the program
.
And then Jacob came on, Ibelieve in June of 23.
And so he's coming up in twoweeks.
You'll be here two years and um.
That's how we kind of got theball rolling.
Caleb Ayers (04:49):
We got certified, josh got certified to teach the
curriculum, um, to test everyone, and so far, so good so you all
are doing all of the relatedtechnical instruction in-house
with the curriculum from okay,so, josh, you're in charge of
teaching.
Josh Arnold (05:05):
Yeah, so I do all the classroom as well as some of
the related initial hands-onskills and skill testing, and
then I also work with them allof our apprentices, which now
will be up to hopefully foursoon and work with them out in
the field as well, as well ashelping them pair with some of
the other guys to have somementoring.
(05:27):
We have different people whoreally stand out in different
areas of the field who do better.
You know, some are better andstronger with residential work,
Some are better and strongerwith the commercial work
generators, solar panels,different things like that.
Everybody has a little bitvaried experience.
Most of the other guys are allcoming up or have far exceeded
(05:49):
10 years in the field, and sothey have different backgrounds
and it really helps with gettingthem a different experience
when they're out there workingwith the other guys.
Caleb Ayers (05:58):
And Jacob for you.
How did you end up here?
Jacob Oakes (06:00):
So back in high school I wasn't exactly sure
what I wanted to do.
I was more creative on what Iwanted to do.
I was more creative on what Ilike doing and I talked to a
relative of mine on, like filmediting.
That's something I was reallyinterested in and he said it was
not a stable job and that Ishould not do it.
And so I was like, well, theregoes all my plans and I was kind
(06:24):
of just trying to figure it out.
Take it slow.
My dad came up to me and waslike, have you ever considered a
trade?
He felt like it would be betterfor me because I don't really
like sitting in an office area,and so I started kind of looking
into that, looking intodifferent ones, which one I
thought would work best for me,and I came across Electrical.
(06:44):
I was like like I'll doelectrical.
And then I found them throughmy brother who's in a.
What would you?
Jenny Spitzer (06:51):
describe.
His brother and I are in thesame business group okay, so I
heard about them through that.
Jacob Oakes (06:59):
That's kind of how it all worked out for me.
Caleb Ayers (07:02):
That's awesome.
And, jenny, I want to go backto what you said too.
So basically, you're sayingthat a lot of the training that
you all were doing, you werebasically training people from
the ground up, but there wasjust no way to like officially
recognize that that training washappening, so that this was a
way for for to make sure thatyour employees had those
credentials, had thoserecognitions of their skills.
Jenny Spitzer (07:21):
Correct.
The need was very strong.
There were not.
We did not find adequateeducation in our area for what
we do.
We are electrical contractors,you know.
We do residential, we docommercial, we do solar, we do
(07:41):
generators.
But we've done solar since, youknow, before 09, my husband ran
the electrical side of my dad'scontracting company before we
went out on our own.
It's not like we're just jumpedon the solar bandwagon, you
know what I mean.
Like same thing with the otherstuff.
We've been doing generators 10,15 years.
I mean it's been, it's beenpretty much the whole time.
It's not something like oh, wejust recently jumped on the
(08:03):
generator bandwagon.
This is something that we do andwe believe firmly in education.
Like if you don't know, youdon't grow, and so we send our
guys to school to recertify onthings all the time.
Like we, we strongly believe inthe education piece.
Um, because you don't want toget stagnant in what you do,
there's always new technologyperiod and so if we can't find
(08:30):
we were getting students, eitherone out of high school, out of
college, out of factories,people saying I want to try
something different and theydidn't have basic skill sets to
work in the trades, whether it'sreading a ruler or just basic
math, like doing fractional math, which is you're doing the
trades all the time, and thatwas a big problem.
(08:53):
So then it was like I needsomething that really starts
from the very basic of basicsand continues all the way up
through theoretical math, motorcontrols.
I think Jacob just did a unitthat had a lot of calculus with
motor controls.
I think Jacob just did a unitthat had a lot of calculus with
motor controls and things likethat.
But it's really hard to takesomebody in the field who
doesn't have the fundamentals.
And you can tell someone topull a wire from here to there
(09:16):
but if they're not understandingwhat they're doing or why
they're doing it, that's aproblem.
So having the education pieceto start from the beginning and
go all the way through reallyhelps them to solidify it when
they get the on-the-job trainingpart and they see it all come
together, why it works, the waythat they were taught.
So that was really huge for usus.
Caleb Ayers (09:37):
Notori.
You mentioned Jenny, you hadmentioned, you know, meeting
with Notori, the supportprovided.
Give a quick rundown of theExtra program and kind of the
resources and support that youall provide for organizations
across all of Southern Virginiaand launching apprenticeship
programs.
Natori Neal (09:55):
Absolutely so.
Extra is very much informed byemployers.
A lot of people have theinitial misconception that Extra
is the apprenticeship programand maintain and administer
their apprenticeship programsand even, you know, expanding
(10:25):
that, scaling that to size, andso we do things such as you know
.
When we met with Jenny, or Imet with Jenny for the first
time, we have that discussion.
You know this is whatapprenticeship is.
Apprenticeship is not aninternship.
Although internship is a greatwork-based learning model as
well, apprenticeship is not aninternship and those terms
(10:47):
aren't used interchangeably.
So this is what apprenticeshipis.
These are your responsibilitiesas an employer.
I am very passionate aboutworking with employers to ensure
that the program is developedto meet their needs.
Their on-the-job training isformulated and then the
on-the-job training needs informthe related technical
(11:07):
instruction and the employer'sother needs.
You know travel, distance andyou know cost and that sort of
thing all play a role in thedevelopment of their program.
And so we have thosediscussions, their needs
discussions, and then we move onto program development.
In that development phase theemployer is there the entire
time, being an activeparticipant in what's needed.
(11:29):
I just kind of handle themanagement of the project and
ensuring that partners areinvolved at the right time in
order not to overwhelm theemployers if the employer needs
resources.
As far as related technicalinstruction, where are all the
possible RTI or where can youget all of the related technical
instruction in this area?
(11:51):
You can do it in-house yourself, like the Spitzers, you can get
it from a community college,you can source it from a
university or even an onlinetraining provider here in
Virginia.
So there are a lot of optionsand being transparent is what
really helps employers and youknow myself in that process.
(12:11):
Not only am I, you know,focusing on getting them their
program developed.
I want to learn more abouttheir company and seeing where
those needs are.
You know, in the future isthere room to expand with solar
being as big as it is now?
You know, in the future,spitzer could decide, hey, we're
going to have something more,so along the lines with energy.
(12:31):
So having that room forconversation, also in working
with employers and, you know,developing those programs, just
the feedback is essential duringall phases, even after the
program is developed.
You know Jenny might come to meand say, hey, tori, is there
funding available for this or isthere resources available to
(12:54):
help me get connected with thispopulation of individuals
Because we want to offeropportunities to high school
students.
How can I get in?
Offer opportunities to highschool students?
How can I get in front of thosehigh school students?
So just being very responsive,very proactive and then also
listening and being transparenthelps a lot when working with
employers to develop, registerand then maintain those
(13:16):
relationships and maintainingthe success of their programs.
Jenny Spitzer (13:19):
Yeah, I have her on speed dial.
Literally True, true story,absolutely relationship and
maintaining the success of theirprograms.
Natori Neal (13:23):
Yeah, I have her on speed dial.
Caleb Ayers (13:28):
Literally True story?
Absolutely, yeah, and I lovethe.
You know the variety of supportthat Extra provides.
You know it's that.
You know helping develop theprogram itself, helping maintain
the program.
You know support withrecruitment, I know there's.
You know there's grantsinvolved for salary for the
helping find those relatedtechnical instruction
opportunities, as you said.
So it's definitely a lot ofdifferent ways that companies
can be supported by the extraprogram.
I kind of want to switch gearsa little bit and just talk about
(13:52):
generally in the room what aresome of the, I guess, best
practices that you all see forapprenticeship programs from
your perspective.
So I mean, obviously, notori,you're working with companies
all over the region, so you'regoing to have the more.
I would imagine you would havemore broad analysis to that,
whereas Jenny, I mean you'reseeing it from what have we seen
(14:13):
in our company?
And I mean Jacob, you're sayingwhat have I seen in my
experience.
So I mean I want to hear fromall of you of kind of what do
you think are the?
Jenny Spitzer (14:27):
I mean I want to hear from all of you of kind of
what do you think are the Iguess the you know best
practices or keys to asuccessful apprenticeship.
So this is new, so we're stillI mean, we're two years in and
we're still kind of learningwhat some of the best practices
are how to get in front of theright people, the right age
group, people who are curiousabout it but don't understand
what electrical is or what theapprenticeship program involves.
People who have worked otherjobs and just said I don't want
(14:50):
to sit at a desk all day.
So for us it's trying to talkto different people in different
avenues.
I do speak at a business groupevery single week and I speak
with them and ask them to spreadthe word.
I have talked to homeschoolers.
I have went in front of highschoolers, um, and then I reach
out to Notori to help me kind ofbroaden that um, just to bring
(15:12):
people in the door and just tokind of do a greater education
of what we do and why we do itthis way.
I'm open to learning anything.
I want a small learning curveon this.
You know what I mean.
There are going to be thingsthat we're going to learn along
the way and as simply and aseasily as we can learn it, that
would be great.
(15:33):
I rely heavily on her.
So if I have questions, if Iget paperwork or I get something
and I don't understand it, I'mlike, tori, am I reading this
right?
Am I seeing this correct?
And there have been times whenshe and I have come across
something that's just notwhether it's a grant or whether
it's whatever tax credits, andI'm like, okay, am I reading
(15:53):
this correct?
And she's been able to help menavigate those waters.
As far as with Jacob and Josh,I just have to say, josh, kudos,
thank you very much.
I'm like I'm so grateful thathe took on the role of the
education piece and I'm justlike, whatever you need, tell me
, we'll get it there to.
To make things easier, I try todo the same for Jacob and all
(16:15):
the apprentices.
The door's open.
I want you guys to talk to us.
I want it to be opencommunication.
I want you guys to feelcomfortable to talk to Josh or
to myself or to anybody, and Ithink if we keep the
communication open, I thinkwe'll do well.
We really try to promotequality over quantity.
There's a reason we don't have20 apprentices right now.
(16:36):
I want it to be slow growth,because I want them to really
understand and learn and that'sa that's a big one for me and I
want, at the end of this, I wantJacob to be a craftsman, not
just an apprentice.
You know, I want him to comeout of it as a master
electrician and I want him to bea craftsman at what he does.
Caleb Ayers (16:57):
And how long is y'all's apprenticeship program?
Last Four years, four years,okay, and obviously at the end
of that those apprentices arejust regular employees.
Jenny Spitzer (17:05):
Yes, so I mean, ultimately, one of the reasons I
get try to get in front of thehigh schoolers and try to get in
front of colleges is because itis a four year thing.
It is a different outlet than acollege or a university.
But I'm like, if you come in,you know 18 years old, you know
22, 23, 24,.
I want the ability to give youa truck, a set of keys, a plan
(17:26):
and say run this job, you'relicensed, right.
We've invested four years togetting you to this point and
you know your wages are paidalong the way.
So we're invested in you,hoping you invest back in us and
help our company to grow.
Josh Arnold (17:42):
I would say one of the biggest things for people
either looking at starting theirown apprenticeship program or
those who are looking to getinto apprenticeship program if
you're going into the company toeven start talking about it,
seeing what their curriculum isand what it's based around.
Curriculum is and what it'sbased around.
(18:05):
We use a nationally recognizedone that's NCCER.
That not only is providing thecore curriculum and helpful
other things, they have booksthat are being put out for each
of the modules and everything,so you actually have a true
textbook.
You have review questions, youhave module tests, you have
hands-on exercises, you havehands-on testing to make sure
(18:27):
that not only have you got theconcept down but you're able to
start developing skills toactually use your hands and do
it and make sure that you trulyunderstand.
You don't get partway throughand go yeah, I don't understand
why I'm doing this, I don'tunderstand what I'm supposed to
do next, and it really helpswith that.
So I would want to know if Iwas going into an apprenticeship
(18:48):
program myself, I would want toknow what their curriculum is,
or if they even have a truecurriculum, because this one is
nationally recognized.
So not only does it allow youfor our state currently to walk
away at the end of the fouryears with a journeyman's
license for the state, but thenyou know that that license can
then be used to go other placesin the country if you really
(19:09):
wanted to.
To try to find states that willreciprocate the license and
allow you to to, you know, fillout all the proper paperwork,
prove that you had the licenseand have held the license for so
long, and be able to actuallyget a license in another state.
For some people that may betheir end goal.
They want to get through theprogram, stay a few years and
then they want to transition to.
(19:30):
Maybe they're across thecountry from where they grew up
and they want to get back there.
But they want to move back witha skill set that allows them to
go home to where the the restof their family lives and and be
there and be successful I guessfor me I would say I kind of
agree with both jenny and joshon that.
Jacob Oakes (19:47):
It's.
It's important you findsomewhere with an environment
where you can feel comfortableand you're not like scared to
make a mistake or something andend up because that's part of
learning is you.
You make mistakes and you'vegot to learn from those mistakes
.
If you're too scared toactually end up doing that, then
you'll never end up learninganything.
With Josh too, I agree with thewhole.
(20:09):
You have to find somewhere witha good curriculum, somewhere
with a good form of learning.
You want to make sure itmatches what you want, to make
sure it kind of matches what youwant, what you want to go with,
because there's a lot.
There's a wide variety of uhdirections, you can go with
electrical, and so if I wasdoing this to go work somewhere
(20:34):
that does not involve any formof construction at all, then
it'd be almost not pointless.
But but you know you'd have goodfundamentals, but I would have
good fundamentals, but I wouldhave to kind of learn more than
what I'm being taught here.
Caleb Ayers (20:48):
So this curriculum specifically for you, I mean
over the last two years.
How have you seen what has thatbeen like getting that mix of
you know you're learning thebasics, the fundamentals, and
you know in the classroom withJosh, and you're learning out in
the field at the same time.
How have those two things cometogether and what has that been
like?
Jacob Oakes (21:04):
It can be kind of interesting when you get to
working with something and thenyou remember that you've read it
in a textbook somewhere andthat can be kind of helpful.
For me it's really helpful whenI'm reading the textbook.
I'm reading something and I'veremembered doing it in the past,
(21:26):
so then I have something I canput with the textbook to make it
real.
Almost it's not just words on apage anymore, or vice versa, if
I read something in thetextbook and then go do it in
the field.
Jenny Spitzer (21:33):
What I like about this program, and what I like
about apprenticeship in general,is it takes different learning
styles and it puts them alltogether.
If you're a tactile learner,you're going to learn in the
field.
If you're an analytical learner, you're reading it, you're
getting it, but you're stillmeshing those two together.
Whether you're an auditorylearner, whatever visual learner
(21:54):
Josh has PowerPoints, he'sspeaking, you're learning
different ways and you'reputting them all together on the
job site.
And that's huge because I thinkwhen you just not for everyone,
but there are certain sect ofpeople who, when they go sit in
a university, they're justhearing words all day and it
doesn't register as easily right?
(22:15):
Some people are just they canget it, they're analytical, they
can read it, they get it, theycan hear it, they get it.
And other people really have todo whatever they're learning
with their hands to reallysolidify it in their mind, and
that's what I really like aboutthis curriculum.
Josh Arnold (22:29):
Yeah, it definitely offers a nice blend of multiple
learning styles and then, ofcourse, you know I try to tailor
to each level the way theylearn best.
You know whether they're.
You know we get some people whocan just read it and that's
fine and they'll remember it all, and we get other people that
(22:50):
they can read it but it doesn'tmake any sense to them.
And so then being able to turnaround, you know the same day or
another day, you know anotherday that week or or as close as
we can, depending on the jobs,going on and go out and actually
do it and look at it what itlooks like in the real life.
Because you know they mayexplain something through the
curriculum but we may never seeit in our normal work as a
(23:15):
business.
So some of those things are likeindustrial job sites, you know,
through huge factories we don'tdo a lot with industrials.
We don't do a lot withindustrials.
So you know open cable traysfor running all the wiring and
everything, or complex bendingfor piping everything, every
single thing in the entirebuilding.
You know we can read about it,but then you know trying to find
(23:37):
other avenues, like we'vewatched different videos on some
of the stuff, so you can see itas they're going through and
what they're doing and you canbe like, oh, I get what they're
talking about now, for how thisis supported, whereas before it
was like oh, why would they evendo it that way?
Well, there's always a reason,but sometimes they don't include
the reasons for things whenyou're just reading about it.
(24:00):
So when you can actually seesomebody who does it all the
time and see them explaining it,well, this is why we have to do
it, or this is why it worksbest.
It solidifies that in theirminds and helps them to remember
it all.
Jenny Spitzer (24:16):
When it comes to, like Jacob said, with
electrical, you could dolow-voltage stuff all day long
if that's the career fields youwant to go in, or you could be a
lineman and you could travelwith a power company throughout
every major storm in the UnitedStates you know what I mean and
you could be going, you know,state to state, whether it's
hurricanes or blizzards ortornadoes or whatever you know.
Or you could do residentialhousing or you could do
commercial.
I mean you get the foundationand your avenues in which you
(24:39):
choose to pursue having theelectrical license are so vast
and they vary so much, and Istrongly, strongly believe you
have to have a curriculum thattouches all of that, because you
do need to have somefundamentals on all of it.
Natori Neal (24:53):
What Jenny was saying is very relevant.
Apprenticeship programs arecustomized to meet the needs of
the employer while also adheringto industry standards.
With Spitzer Incorporated, theydon't do a lot of industrial
electrical work.
They do a lot of residentialand commercial and generators
and solar work.
So the emphasis of theirprogram is on that.
(25:14):
Their apprentices are exposedto industrial electrical.
But you know, when you'recustomizing that and when Josh
is teaching the relatedtechnical instruction, most of
the emphasis is placed on thework that they actually do in
the workforce, whereas if amanufacturing employer with an
electrical registeredapprenticeship program, they
(25:34):
would be focusing more on thoseindustrial components while
still maybe providing exposureto some of those other
components like generators andin residential things of that
nature.
But their emphasis will be onthe work that they're doing
every day on the job.
So a best practice iscustomizing it to meet the
(25:54):
employer's needs and wherethey're also able to prepare an
electrician or any otheremployee in any occupation to be
successful, whether they'redoing it you know, here in
Danville for this one company,or here in Pennsylvania County
for a company, or they wanted totake it across country into
(26:15):
Alaska and work as anelectrician or something another
occupation.
So when you're.
When companies establishregistered apprenticeship
programs.
Yes, there are industrystandards that have to be met,
but that customization is key,you know, for companies to
develop and establish thatworker, that employee, for their
(26:37):
company to be successful andgrow and hopefully retain them
for years to come.
Hopefully retain them for yearsto come.
And when apprentices completetheir apprenticeship programs,
especially in the trades ofelectrical plumbing, hvac now in
Virginia they have eliminatedthe requirement to sit for their
DPOR journeyman's licensureexam.
(26:58):
So in those three trades thereare other ones, but for the sake
of this electrical plumbing,hvac they complete a registered
apprenticeship program.
It has to be registered andthey get the proof of completion
.
They no longer have to sit forthat journeyman's exam that Josh
probably had to sit for andJosh can tell you about that.
(27:20):
Josh is a master electrician, sothat's another benefit to you
know the Spitzer program.
They're not being trained bysomeone who has never worked in
the field.
Josh is a master electricianwho still very much works in the
field.
And so they have they're ableto say, okay, this day is my
dedicated class day, and youknow structure class at a time
(27:43):
that works for them.
You know when they want to holdclass.
They usually have a set day,but you know, if they have a
project that's, you know runningover time, they can alter their
class days and rearrange thingslike that.
Josh Arnold (27:57):
Or when people are sick, or when people are sick.
Natori Neal (28:00):
Exactly.
So, they can.
They have that and that's abenefit for Spitzer With.
Another best practice I've seenis companies, employers,
covering the cost of relatedtechnical instruction for their
(28:21):
employees or their apprentices.
Jacob hasn't had to come out ofpocket for anything as far as
his education is concernedbecause Spitzer is carrying that
and that's the best practicethat we see.
Whether it's a manufacturerusing a community college, the
manufacturer covers the tuition,covers the books, that sort of
thing.
So the apprentice can focussolely on coming to work every
day, doing their best in classand then learning on the job and
(28:45):
then not having to worry aboutany debt that they have to pay
back at the conclusion of theirregistered apprenticeship
program.
As an intermediary in thisspace that's helped set up
multiple you know about 35, 36registered apprenticeship
programs and that's stillgrowing year to date
apprenticeship programs andthat's still growing year to
date and have seen over 100apprentices, you know, actively
(29:16):
involved in their apprenticeshipprograms.
I see things such as employersmaybe not, not maybe, let's say,
when it's coming to selecting amentor.
They open that up to theemployees who they, you know,
currently have working for themto say, hey, we're having an
apprenticeship program, we'reestablishing one, we're going to
need mentors for ourapprentices and then, instead of
(29:37):
volunteering someone to dobecoming a mentor, asking them
to become the mentor for anapprentice, or presenting it as
an opportunity to shareknowledge and letting those
experienced employees opt in tobeing a mentor has been
something that I've seen besuccessful because when those
mentors are sharing knowledgeand, you know, being patient and
(29:59):
encouraging those apprenticeswho are learning on the job to
hopefully get to the level ofthose mentors, you want someone
who wants to do that and not,you know, be forced to do it.
I've also seen having thatfeedback, that constant
communication between employersI have.
You know you can call mewhenever you need me.
(30:21):
You can email me if you needanything, any questions.
Nothing's off limits.
So that's been a best practicethat we've seen through Extra
and working with SouthernVirginia employers.
Just let me know if you needanything at all, if it's a form
you need emailed.
If you need me to come and talkto parents about what
(30:42):
registered apprenticeship is inorder to get buy-in parents
about what registeredapprenticeship is in order to
get buy-in, to get youthapprentices into your program, I
will do it.
So, having that constantfeedback, my employer partners
inform almost everything, suchas you know how we go about
grant funding opportunities, howthe grant process is working,
(31:03):
what's needed.
Do they need anything from thestate that I can communicate to
our state?
Apprenticeship consultants orofficials within Virginia Works.
So having that communicationand then having that network.
Let's say, for instance, jenny,they have apprenticeship
featured prominently on theirapprenticeship website.
(31:25):
They have apprenticeshipfeatured prominently on their
apprenticeship website.
Jenny worked with anotherapprenticeship partner who
helped build that website and sothey work together and the
apprenticeship partner whohelped build the website has
said hey, we want to featureapprenticeship, you know, to
(31:46):
attract people to our workplaceand to gain buy-in from the
public.
The other apprenticeshippartner knew was well-versed in
apprenticeship to know you knowwhat should be featured on this
webpage and you know how shouldwe talk about apprenticeship.
So they're there to also helpeach other within the extra
network.
So forming that and it's stillgrowing every day and we're
(32:12):
working on how do we bring theseemployers together to have more
meaningful discussions.
Our extra employer partners havebeen involved in conversations
with political officials.
What's working, what do youneed, what supports are needed,
and so that also gives theemployers another you know
(32:34):
grounds for support, knowingthat, hey, you know my voice is
heard.
Nothing is falling on deaf earswhen it comes to our
apprenticeship programs andbeing that, apprenticeship is
being promoted locally, on thestate level and even nationally.
The president recentlyannounced a goal for one million
apprentices by the end of histerm.
In Virginia, governor Youngkinhas a goal of 20,000 apprentices
(32:57):
by the end of his term.
So we're doing everything thatwe can, you know, as an
intermediary in the space, asemployers in the space space, to
ensure that we're able to onecreate these opportunities and
then support the employers whoare responsible for establishing
and providing theseopportunities to these
apprentices who are seeking, youknow, learn and earn job,
(33:21):
employment opportunities.
Caleb Ayers (33:24):
Yeah, no, and this was a lot of good best practices
.
I was sitting over here takingnotes.
I got a whole list of stuff.
So I think, yeah, you knowthose main ideas of the
customization of apprenticeshipis definitely a good selling
point for any company that'sconsidering this is, you know
that ability to?
Yes, there are requirements.
Yes, there are thosefundamentals that need to be
taught, but these should and canbe customized to exactly what
(33:46):
your workspace looks like.
And you know that this forapprentices, that these should
be and are created to be, sothat, jenny, as you said, that
someone who walks in withbasically no knowledge or skills
in these areas that you wouldexpect if you were hiring for a
traditional employmentopportunity that you can teach
(34:08):
those from the ground up.
There's a lot more that youguys said, but we'll stop it
there.
And again, as Notori said, sheis happy to help for any
employer across GoVirginiaRegion 3.
That's 15 localities generallyin southern Virginia that are
interested in apprenticeship.
Notorious is happy to help setthose up.
(34:29):
So anything else that you guyswant to add before we go?
Natori Neal (34:32):
Extra's here to help if you need anything.
Caleb Ayers (34:34):
Thank you Well thank you all for being here.
We appreciate it, thank you,thank you.
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