July 7, 2025 • 26 mins
Travis Pyke, founder and CEO of Wind River Built, shares his journey from tiny home builder to modular manufacturer and explains how his company's vertical integration approach allowed it to quickly scale production and attract commercial building developers.
For developers considering modular construction, Pyke's insights about coordination, partner selection, and pre-construction planning provide a roadmap to successful projects. By focusing on transparency, quality, and bringing more services under one roof, Wind River Built demonstrates how modern modular construction can deliver turnkey solutions that consistently exceed client expectations.
Listen to all episodes of MBI's Inside Modular podcast at https://www.modular.org/inside-modular-the-podcast-of-commercial-modular-construction/
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello and welcome to Inside Modular, the podcast of
commercial modular constructionbrought to you by the Modular
Building Institute.
Welcome everyone.
My name is John McMullen.
I'm the marketing director hereat MBI.
Today I'm joined by Travis Pike, founder and CEO at Wind River
Built.
Travis is here to talk abouthow developers can get started
(00:21):
with modular construction andshare the advantages of vertical
integration.
Travis, welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
John, excited to be on here with you and talk
modular.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, I appreciate your time.
Thank you very much.
Tell me about yourself, Travis.
What's your background and howdid Wind River Built come to be?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, I'll give a condensed version here because
that story can be long.
But essentially I come from abackground of trades
construction, carpentry.
You know, early on in seventhgrade I homeschooled and our
family built our own house.
So that's kind of I've beendrawing plans, fascinated by
design and architecture, from anearly age.
But in 2012, you know, the tinyhome movement was kind of
(01:03):
catching on and it was reallyintriguing to me.
I was about to get married and Iread an article about it and a
few days later bought, you know,a trailer off Craigslist and
started diving into theminimalist tiny home world.
And so I started out of just adesire to want to live that
lifestyle.
And, you know, save money kindof be a good stepping stone for
me and my new family.
Save money kind of be a goodstepping stone for me and my new
(01:27):
family.
So I spent a year and a halfbuilding the first.
The Wind River Bungalow is whatwe called it 192 square feet.
My wife and I lived in it forover four years.
But after I finished that,another friend wanted to build a
tiny home and for him and hiswife we came together, started
Wind River Tiny Homes in 2014.
So we've been in business thisfall will be 11 years and about
(01:51):
eight of those years was justsolely focused on building park
model tiny homes on wheels thateveryone knows about.
Then, two years ago, we decidedto scale our operations and
modular started researchingmodular several years ago and it
just seemed like the obviousdirection to go, taking our
reputation what we'd built inthe tiny home world, but
(02:12):
applying it to a much broadermarket and different building
type.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, I love that.
The fact that you designed yourown home.
Not many people can say thatthat's awesome.
Yes, so since you've becomeWind River Built, it's been a
couple of years.
Can you walk us through thetypical customer journey when a
developer comes to you for anexample?
What is that journey like forthem, from the initial inquiry
to completing a project?
(02:39):
What are those conversationslike along the way?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think that's what really sets Wind River apart.
I know it's cliche to say youknow we have great customer
service, but we call it more acustomer journey.
So it truly is, from like thevery beginning early
conversations, ideation, all theway to well after you've
received a product of ours.
But yeah it's individualswanting to buy a home from us, a
(03:05):
tiny home or modular.
Or, now that we've scaled,we're engaging with a lot more
developers, both in thehospitality market and
residential.
But from start to finish we'rein the weeds with the customer,
trying to remove any roadblocks,answer any questions, problem
solve.
We've really built.
(03:26):
We've been focusing on buildingour team out.
You know we have a new facility, we got all the tools, great
manufacturing facility, butwe've really been focused on,
like, the services that weprovide from our team.
So what that typically lookslike is, you know, early
conversations kind of justfigure out if project's viable,
if we're in the same realm oflike the product and quality and
cost that we provide, and ifthose all align, we'd go into a
(03:51):
pre-construction designengagement and that's where you
get the full services from ourteam design studio, design team,
engineers, architects thatwe're partnered with and we
really go through the nittygritty to design something
totally custom, unique.
Or if a developer brings us aplan that's partially figured
out, or they can bring us anarchitectural set of documents,
(04:12):
engineered plans, and we canbuild to that.
So I think that's what's uniqueis that we meet the developer
or the customer, whereverthey're at and be able to
provide those services all theway through.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
How does being vertically integrated help you
maintain quality across?
You know different phases ofthe project.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I think you hit it on the head.
The number one reason forvertical integration is quality
driven first.
From our early days, when westarted in a pole barn, all the
way to now in our 100,000 squarefoot facility, vertical
integration has been a big partof our business model and it's
always.
You know, we have the mindsetof, like you know we can build
(04:53):
it better, higher quality,faster and cheaper, but it's
always quality where we've beentold we're obsessed with quality
, Like we would not put anythingout the door that we wouldn't
want to build for ourselves sowe can control that quality.
So, bringing cabinetry andmillwork in-house, we do all.
Fabricating all the steelframes, trailers, whatever needs
(05:13):
to be done out of steel, we dothat ourselves.
We've truly brought everythingin-house.
The cost savings comes later,once we've streamlined it and
become more efficient.
But it's all quality driven andbecause we do it in-house, we
can customize.
And so early on our businessmodel was like you dream it,
we'll build it fully custom.
(05:33):
Well, it's hard to scale that,so we standardized over the last
few years and came out withmodels that you can kind of
tweak in a catalog, like there'sa sandbox to plan and we still
have to do that for small ordersor individual customers.
But if a developer is coming tous, especially in hospitality,
they want a unique, bespokeproduct that is just them.
(05:54):
We've leaned fully back intocustom on volume orders like
that.
And with that, what materials,what do you want?
Appliances, what differentsystems, MEP we'll do that from
scratch, ground up, and we cando that since we're doing so
much in-house and can controlthe cost and quality of that.
(06:14):
So I think that's been superimportant for that to be part of
our business model.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I was wondering if you could maybe give an example
of something that you've builtfor a developer client and maybe
describe how your integratedapproach has really made a
critical difference, you know,maybe versus more traditional or
even traditional modularapproach.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, I got a great example for that group that had
kind of ambitious plans to havethese.
They're kind of like detachedhotels but kind of a luxury
resort outside of national parksaround the country.
They had done one small one,but modular was a direction they
wanted to go and so we workedwith their whole team over a few
months, designed with them aunique model just to them, not
like anything else, and wereally got in the trenches with
(07:07):
them.
Like I said, there was issuesthat had to be solved, different
things where they had mentioneda lot of other builders they
talked to was just like here'sthe scope of our services,
here's a few designs.
You can only make these tweaks.
And we offered to get in thetrenches and figured out with
them and it was a really greatprocess.
So that was for 75 modular unitsgoing up near the Great Smoky
(07:28):
Mountains, which we're about towrap up.
The 75th unit they're allstacked up outside getting ready
to go to their site.
It was such a positiveexperience for their group that
when they put an RFP out to do adevelopment of 75 units in
Joshua Tree on the other side ofthe country, it was obvious we
need to go with these guys, eventhough the shipping costs and
(07:51):
everything the value that theywere going to have was we've
gone through this process withthem.
We're going to get a consistentquality product.
They know that we're in it ahundred percent with them, and
so the feedback from themvalidated why how we set up our,
our customer journey andservices was we want to be a
repeat customer for thesedevelopers that want to continue
(08:12):
to grow.
So that's a good case studygoing on right now of what we
offer the developer.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Well, kudos to you.
That's an awesome testament toyou guys, and I know logistics
can present a lot of problemsand you mentioned that with the
Joshua Tree project.
How does Wind River manage thecoordination between delivery,
the owners, the GCs, all themoving parts that it takes to
(08:39):
get a large project from A to B,especially across the country?
What's your process for that?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah.
So we felt very important earlyon to be able to control that
and manage that.
And so we work with great thirdparty logistics companies that
we've had great experience with.
One is to where it's just anindividual driver all the way to
like we need, you know,multiple fleets of 10 drivers
and trailers to get, you know,75 units across the country
(09:10):
inventory.
So on the large volume orderswe work with a handful of
logistics partners.
Wind river holds the logisticsunder our contract with the
owner.
So in our scope it's responsewe're responsible to get the
units to the site.
Coordinating with the gc orowner on like the order they
need to come in the orientationis their staging there.
But we felt like that was ahuge value add for the developer
(09:30):
was like let us take that on,we'll hold that contract instead
of giving them some suggestionsand then figuring out so we can
control that, because early ona customer would have a great
journey with us and then alogistics partner that we didn't
have control over or somethingwould happen and it just would
sour that experience.
At the very end things wouldhappen and it just would sour,
(09:51):
you know that experience.
At the very end things wouldhappen and it's like we want
Wind River to be involved untilwe can like hand those keys over
and get the unit to the site.
So we're very much involvedwith meetings, coordinating with
owner GC to get the units there.
And just to add to that I knowwe're just talking about like
shipping logistics, but for theright projects in kind of the
greater Southeast, we have anetwork of partners we work
(10:14):
closely with.
So even the vertical aspect,once the units are there, they
have to be craned onto site,stitched to the foundation,
stitched together if they're twostory.
So we have a great structuralengineering partner who does all
of our structural engineeringof our units, but he also can do
different levels of scope onthe vertical aspect.
So some developers you knowwe're able to go to and let them
(10:36):
know that we can do the unit,we can get it there, and then
somebody that feels in-house Imean they're essentially an
extension of our team canoversee the craning, crane
analysis, handling all that,getting them set and stitched.
So that's been a huge value too.
And again, it's geographicallydependent on where that partner
(10:58):
will go, but then it truly isturnkey from start to finish.
We can help them get the unitsthere because that's one of the
pitfalls of modulars it's a lotof upfront planning and moving
parts, and if you can coordinatethat well and kind of
vertically integrate that forthe developers, they don't have
to figure it out.
Huge value from what we've beenhearing.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Well, it sounds like you guys have learned a lot
along the way and are continuingto learn.
If you're able to say what aresome of the specific pitfalls
that you've come across and howhave you learned to avoid them?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, I think a lot of it just comes down to
coordination.
We don't want to be a partneror a builder that is just kind
of like hands off and like well,you have to figure that out.
We want modular to besuccessful across the board and
so you know, we're listening tokind of the horror stories of
modular.
(11:52):
We were talking to a developerright now that when he met us
he's like just he, let us knowright up front.
He's like I do not like modular.
He'd hit some of those pitfallsof things not going together on
on site, not getting what heneeded, not knowing the full
scope of how that all works.
But we're winning him over 100%.
We're going to be buildinghomes with him because of our
(12:15):
approach, of the coordination,how much we're involved, the
ability to have a structuralengineer involved that can build
the foundations, that can setthe units.
So I think the pitfalls we goto all the to.
You know all the mbi events,world of modular, and we're
continually wanting to improveour services and and elevate you
(12:36):
know what we offer and and oneof the one of the breakout
sessions we went to at world ofmodular this year was kind of
the pitfalls of modular, likewhy it hasn't worked in certain
scenarios, and that was one ofthe best sessions I went to.
Got a lot of good informationon how we can better our
services for the client.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Well, we've talked about logistics quite a bit.
You mentioned working withdevelopers to get multi-story
buildings up, get foundationsbuilt.
What types of foundations orother structural challenges have
you helped developers overcomeand what was your approach?
How did you guide them throughthose challenges?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, it's a really good question.
I think the biggest thing thatwe've done is finding a good,
trusted, valued partner in thestructural engineer.
So he's very knowledgeable andintimate with the designs of our
homes because through thecertification phase he's he's
the one designing the floorsystems and and doing all the
(13:35):
structural calcs.
So having him introducing himto the developer or the client
to to go out to the site,understand where the units are
going Is it steep, is it sloped?
You know what type offoundation does it need?
We were just in North Carolinalast week looking at steep slope
so our engineer can designelevated steel concrete
(13:59):
foundations that integrate fullywith the floor system we're
building, whether it's a woodfloor system, a steel floor.
It's just one of those thingsthat a GC to figure out on site,
having to coordinate multipleparties that aren't familiar
with how we're building it,being able to bring that into
our scope, has been huge.
So we're looking at steelelevated platforms, typical
(14:21):
crawl space foundations, slabfoundations, precast foundation
walls.
We're working closely with acompany that can design that to
just to integrate with our unitsand we're all taking that under
one roof and the developershave just kept saying that.
You know that's incredible tobe able to have that piece that
we don't have to figure out.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So, based on your experience, how does a strong
network and it sounds likeyou've got one, you've got your
structural engineer in place,you've got other staff and
partners in place how does astrong network of architects and
engineers and GCs even helpsimplify the experience for
developers?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, what we found is it's hard to be exceptional
and really good at everythingand we understand when we're not
.
You know, we're not civilengineers, we're not structural
engineers.
So I think identifying the bestpartners that are really good
at what they do and getting theminvolved early on is what's
going to make a projectsuccessful.
(15:25):
So we're continuing to buildthat out.
I think our close partner,that's a structural engineer
that can do the vertical work,was one of the biggest ones.
We're working with a civilengineer now on a townhome
project we're doing internallyhere in Cleveland, tennessee.
They're a nationwide company sowe can now tap into there's a
lot about civil engineering wedon't know, but they're learning
(15:47):
and intrigued by modular.
We're going to be doing aproject with them so we can tap
into civil engineers.
Our architect is licensed in alot of states and will get
licensed in a new state if hedoesn't have that, and they're
learning the ins and outs ofmodular and how to design around
that.
So it's been huge.
We don't have to figure it out.
You know, in the early days wewere very much.
(16:08):
You know we're scrappy.
We do like to problem solve andfigure it out, but that doesn't
mean we need to figure outareas where someone else is
exceptional.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
How do you vet or select your partners?
I'm sure you learned as youwent.
As you said, you got to thepoint where you needed outside
partners to come in and sort ofyou know, boost you guys up.
How did you select thosepartners?
What vetting process did theygo through to make sure they
aligned with your vision and howyou did things?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Well, some of it's been just between Caleb, my
business partner.
You know, he and I both comefrom a construction trades
background, so we have a goodnetwork here in our area and,
like the southeast, so some ofit was just trusted partners
that we already knew.
Some of it's just trial anderror too, Like you do a project
with a partner and it's like,oh, they just didn't quite align
(16:58):
, whether it's the customerservice, the speed and urgency
quality.
So we try to find partners thatmatch our obsession of
providing a really qualityproduct and quality services If
those align and they'reinterested in diving into the
nuances of modular.
That's kind of the vettingprocess.
(17:20):
But so between a network thatwe already kind of had
established and then meeting newfolks along the way and kind of
trial and error, you kind ofland at kind of where we're at
now and we're still trying tobuild that out even further.
But I think we're getting closerto being able to offer a full
scope of services from start tofinish for a project.
(17:44):
You know, the last piece islike finding a GC that can do
all the finishing details onsite.
If it's too far away, like wedon't have a crew that we can
send off for weeks at a time tolike wrap up a project.
And we've done some projectswhere we hired that out and they
did not do it to the quality orthe customer service that we
would have, and so you know wedidn't use them again.
(18:05):
So trying to find crews thatcan go on site and do the site
work in a way that aligns withhow we would do it is really
important.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You mentioned earlier in the conversation
pre-construction design servicesthat you provide.
I wanted to loop back to thatjust for a minute.
Can you walk us through what'sincluded in your
pre-construction design and howit sort of sets the stage for a
successful project?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, like I'd mentioned, with modular products
, anybody doing modular knowsthat there's a lot more
coordination and planninginvolved.
There's different cooks in thekitchen, so to say, and so
knowing what all those are upfront, having a responsibility
matrix that we have and everyoneknows exactly what's in their
(18:55):
scope Is Wind River doing thisor is the GC doing this?
Or the owner?
So, up front, kind of layingthe whole project out, the steps
that we need to go through,making sure everyone's aligned
at the different stages, thatneeds to happen, and then we're
fully transparent, kind of anopen book.
We want to be honest abouteverything right from the start.
(19:16):
If things are going well, thecustomer knows.
If there's an issue, thecustomer is going to know and
not trying to circumnavigateanything.
I think building trust with thedeveloper and having that trust
within our network of partnersis key for a project to go well
and then for the customer.
On the design side, as we'regoing through the design, we get
(19:39):
down to the detail of likewhich way is the toilet paper
holder installed, like thelittle details, and then a final
cost, like the deliverable outof that pre-construction design
is a final set of plans that cango through certification and
get stamped through the stateand a contract price, whether
it's one unit or a volume order.
So having that process in place, just it's fully transparent.
(20:03):
The developer knows whatthey're getting and the costs
they're getting in that.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Have you seen cases, or do you have an example, where
all these pre-constructionconversations have prevented
rework later or kept you fromhaving to go and redo something
later in the process?
I was wondering if you couldgive me an example.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, so we've been doing modular now for almost two
years, once we moved into ournew facility.
So we have two big projectsthat we've completed.
We did 26 modular units forstudent housing at a local
university, kind of a village ofmodular homes mountain cottages
(20:45):
they call them.
So that was our first kind oftaste doing a larger project and
working with the engineers onsite and the GC and all of that.
And did it go perfectly?
No, but having our process inplace, we felt like it went
really smoothly and we learnedalong the way.
After every project we do apost-project, post-production
(21:07):
review and meeting with everyoneto go through what went well,
what didn't, what could bebetter, so that we can apply
that to the next project.
And then this order we'refulfilling right now of 75 units
, and then this order we'refilling right now of 75 units.
You know, at the beginning ofthat there was a lot of things
(21:28):
not in our scope or that wedidn't know how they were
handling.
But because of the experiencethey had we brought new things
into our scope because like wecould go to them and be like no,
we can handle that and we candesign it that way to reduce the
amount of subcontractors andwork that they had to do on site
contractors and work that theyhad to do on site.
So, over that one yearengagement, we've come out of
that with a much better processand like what we can, what we
can offer.
And, just on that note, ourstructural engineer is going to
(21:52):
be.
He won the contract to set allthose units.
It's like half halfway throughwe were planning for the GC that
they had at the time to do allthat setting and trying to you,
trying to introduce them to thedesign.
Here's how you're going tobuild the porches and connect
everything.
Well, now our structuralengineer will be doing all that,
which is just an extension ofour team, and that was huge for
(22:15):
them.
It's just one thing they don'thave to worry about.
To worry about and all thelittle roadblocks that you hit,
things you have to overcomealong the way when it's in that
network and in that house.
In house, um, there's a lot ofconversations and meetings that
happen that the owner, developerdon't even know about.
Or you know, they didn't haveto coordinate three or four
different groups.
We had an issue, we problemsolved it internally and it was
(22:38):
just something that they didn'thave to deal with.
We just figured it out andthat's the feedback we're
getting, like what roadblockscan we remove from them?
What headaches can we help themwith?
The less that they have to doonsite for the project, the
better.
All saying that that they arestill very much involved in all
the meetings, but that's reallyhelpful for them from what we've
(23:01):
been hearing.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, travis, this has been great.
I really appreciate your time.
Before I let you go, I have onemore question for you as a
relatively new modularmanufacturer, I know you started
as a tiny home business.
You've grown since then, soyou've been in the industry a
while.
I was wondering what advice youcould offer other manufacturers
who are just getting going.
What would you suggest to themin terms of making connections
(23:25):
with owner developers, deepeningthose relationships?
What should new manufacturersbe doing to grow their business
and invite developers in?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
You know, networking comes in a lot of different
forms and ways but for so manyyears we were just head down
small company just getting thework done and like, not focused
on building relationships.
We were just so busy and didn'thave that capacity.
And in the last few years, youknow, going to events and
networking whether it's planningmeetings in your local
(23:58):
municipality, joining differentgroups within the community,
builders associations, theModular Building Institute the
events that you all put on havebeen huge and just networking
with others in the industry andother partners that can help us
grow our services and our team.
So I think just really gettingout there and bumping shoulders
(24:22):
with people and it's I alwayssay it's like kind of playing
the long game, like networkingisn't just going to get you a
sale or get you a bill rightaway, but that referral and
repeat customer getting yourname out there, and it really
takes just getting a project offthe ground and kind of a case
study to understand, to be ableto go out and show people what
(24:43):
you're capable of and yourproduct is huge.
And the last thing I'd say isalways be focused on the value
that you can bring to thedeveloper.
You have to put yourself intheir shoes and understand their
frustrations and concerns andbe able to confidently answer
that and concerns and be able toconfidently answer that.
So we always look at it throughthe lens.
What can we be doing to bringvalue to our customers and
(25:06):
developers?
And if you approach it that way, with high integrity and
transparency, you're going tobuild relationships with
developers that are going tolast and keep that pipeline
filled, which is what we're alltrying to do.
Is as controlled as modular is.
That's one of the hard thingsis like.
Keeping the facility full andhaving those projects and I
(25:28):
truly think it's going to berepeat and referral and not so
much focus on just gettingorganic sales in but doing the
next project with these folksthat you've done successful
projects with.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Thank you so much, travis.
I really appreciate your timetoday.
I can't wait to see thecompletion of this project
you're working on.
Congratulations again.
75 units is no small task.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And you know.
Thanks again.
This is.
This has been a greatconversation.
I appreciate it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
John Really enjoyed being on here with you.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
My name is John McMullen.
This has been another episodeof Inside Modular, the podcast
of commercial modularconstruction.
Until next time.
Hello and welcome to Inside Modular, the podcast of
commercial modular constructionbrought to you by the Modular
Building Institute.
Welcome everyone.
My name is John McMullen.
I'm the marketing director hereat MBI.
Today I'm joined by Travis Pike, founder and CEO at Wind River
Built.
Travis is here to talk abouthow developers can get started
(00:21):
with modular construction andshare the advantages of vertical
integration.
Travis, welcome, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:28):
John, excited to be on here with you and talk
modular.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Well, I appreciate your time.
Thank you very much.
Tell me about yourself, Travis.
What's your background and howdid Wind River Built come to be?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Well, I'll give a condensed version here because
that story can be long.
But essentially I come from abackground of trades
construction, carpentry.
You know, early on in seventhgrade I homeschooled and our
family built our own house.
So that's kind of I've beendrawing plans, fascinated by
design and architecture, from anearly age.
But in 2012, you know, the tinyhome movement was kind of
(01:03):
catching on and it was reallyintriguing to me.
I was about to get married and Iread an article about it and a
few days later bought, you know,a trailer off Craigslist and
started diving into theminimalist tiny home world.
And so I started out of just adesire to want to live that
lifestyle.
And, you know, save money kindof be a good stepping stone for
me and my new family.
Save money kind of be a goodstepping stone for me and my new
(01:27):
family.
So I spent a year and a halfbuilding the first.
The Wind River Bungalow is whatwe called it 192 square feet.
My wife and I lived in it forover four years.
But after I finished that,another friend wanted to build a
tiny home and for him and hiswife we came together, started
Wind River Tiny Homes in 2014.
So we've been in business thisfall will be 11 years and about
(01:51):
eight of those years was justsolely focused on building park
model tiny homes on wheels thateveryone knows about.
Then, two years ago, we decidedto scale our operations and
modular started researchingmodular several years ago and it
just seemed like the obviousdirection to go, taking our
reputation what we'd built inthe tiny home world, but
(02:12):
applying it to a much broadermarket and different building
type.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Well, I love that.
The fact that you designed yourown home.
Not many people can say thatthat's awesome.
Yes, so since you've becomeWind River Built, it's been a
couple of years.
Can you walk us through thetypical customer journey when a
developer comes to you for anexample?
What is that journey like forthem, from the initial inquiry
to completing a project?
(02:39):
What are those conversationslike along the way?
Speaker 2 (02:42):
I think that's what really sets Wind River apart.
I know it's cliche to say youknow we have great customer
service, but we call it more acustomer journey.
So it truly is, from like thevery beginning early
conversations, ideation, all theway to well after you've
received a product of ours.
But yeah it's individualswanting to buy a home from us, a
(03:05):
tiny home or modular.
Or, now that we've scaled,we're engaging with a lot more
developers, both in thehospitality market and
residential.
But from start to finish we'rein the weeds with the customer,
trying to remove any roadblocks,answer any questions, problem
solve.
We've really built.
(03:26):
We've been focusing on buildingour team out.
You know we have a new facility, we got all the tools, great
manufacturing facility, butwe've really been focused on,
like, the services that weprovide from our team.
So what that typically lookslike is, you know, early
conversations kind of justfigure out if project's viable,
if we're in the same realm oflike the product and quality and
cost that we provide, and ifthose all align, we'd go into a
(03:51):
pre-construction designengagement and that's where you
get the full services from ourteam design studio, design team,
engineers, architects thatwe're partnered with and we
really go through the nittygritty to design something
totally custom, unique.
Or if a developer brings us aplan that's partially figured
out, or they can bring us anarchitectural set of documents,
(04:12):
engineered plans, and we canbuild to that.
So I think that's what's uniqueis that we meet the developer
or the customer, whereverthey're at and be able to
provide those services all theway through.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
How does being vertically integrated help you
maintain quality across?
You know different phases ofthe project.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
Yeah, I think you hit it on the head.
The number one reason forvertical integration is quality
driven first.
From our early days, when westarted in a pole barn, all the
way to now in our 100,000 squarefoot facility, vertical
integration has been a big partof our business model and it's
always.
You know, we have the mindsetof, like you know we can build
(04:53):
it better, higher quality,faster and cheaper, but it's
always quality where we've beentold we're obsessed with quality
, Like we would not put anythingout the door that we wouldn't
want to build for ourselves sowe can control that quality.
So, bringing cabinetry andmillwork in-house, we do all.
Fabricating all the steelframes, trailers, whatever needs
(05:13):
to be done out of steel, we dothat ourselves.
We've truly brought everythingin-house.
The cost savings comes later,once we've streamlined it and
become more efficient.
But it's all quality driven andbecause we do it in-house, we
can customize.
And so early on our businessmodel was like you dream it,
we'll build it fully custom.
(05:33):
Well, it's hard to scale that,so we standardized over the last
few years and came out withmodels that you can kind of
tweak in a catalog, like there'sa sandbox to plan and we still
have to do that for small ordersor individual customers.
But if a developer is coming tous, especially in hospitality,
they want a unique, bespokeproduct that is just them.
(05:54):
We've leaned fully back intocustom on volume orders like
that.
And with that, what materials,what do you want?
Appliances, what differentsystems, MEP we'll do that from
scratch, ground up, and we cando that since we're doing so
much in-house and can controlthe cost and quality of that.
(06:14):
So I think that's been superimportant for that to be part of
our business model.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
I was wondering if you could maybe give an example
of something that you've builtfor a developer client and maybe
describe how your integratedapproach has really made a
critical difference, you know,maybe versus more traditional or
even traditional modularapproach.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Yeah, I got a great example for that group that had
kind of ambitious plans to havethese.
They're kind of like detachedhotels but kind of a luxury
resort outside of national parksaround the country.
They had done one small one,but modular was a direction they
wanted to go and so we workedwith their whole team over a few
months, designed with them aunique model just to them, not
like anything else, and wereally got in the trenches with
(07:07):
them.
Like I said, there was issuesthat had to be solved, different
things where they had mentioneda lot of other builders they
talked to was just like here'sthe scope of our services,
here's a few designs.
You can only make these tweaks.
And we offered to get in thetrenches and figured out with
them and it was a really greatprocess.
So that was for 75 modular unitsgoing up near the Great Smoky
(07:28):
Mountains, which we're about towrap up.
The 75th unit they're allstacked up outside getting ready
to go to their site.
It was such a positiveexperience for their group that
when they put an RFP out to do adevelopment of 75 units in
Joshua Tree on the other side ofthe country, it was obvious we
need to go with these guys, eventhough the shipping costs and
(07:51):
everything the value that theywere going to have was we've
gone through this process withthem.
We're going to get a consistentquality product.
They know that we're in it ahundred percent with them, and
so the feedback from themvalidated why how we set up our,
our customer journey andservices was we want to be a
repeat customer for thesedevelopers that want to continue
(08:12):
to grow.
So that's a good case studygoing on right now of what we
offer the developer.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Well, kudos to you.
That's an awesome testament toyou guys, and I know logistics
can present a lot of problemsand you mentioned that with the
Joshua Tree project.
How does Wind River manage thecoordination between delivery,
the owners, the GCs, all themoving parts that it takes to
(08:39):
get a large project from A to B,especially across the country?
What's your process for that?
Speaker 2 (08:46):
Yeah.
So we felt very important earlyon to be able to control that
and manage that.
And so we work with great thirdparty logistics companies that
we've had great experience with.
One is to where it's just anindividual driver all the way to
like we need, you know,multiple fleets of 10 drivers
and trailers to get, you know,75 units across the country
(09:10):
inventory.
So on the large volume orderswe work with a handful of
logistics partners.
Wind river holds the logisticsunder our contract with the
owner.
So in our scope it's responsewe're responsible to get the
units to the site.
Coordinating with the gc orowner on like the order they
need to come in the orientationis their staging there.
But we felt like that was ahuge value add for the developer
(09:30):
was like let us take that on,we'll hold that contract instead
of giving them some suggestionsand then figuring out so we can
control that, because early ona customer would have a great
journey with us and then alogistics partner that we didn't
have control over or somethingwould happen and it just would
sour that experience.
At the very end things wouldhappen and it just would sour,
(09:51):
you know that experience.
At the very end things wouldhappen and it's like we want
Wind River to be involved untilwe can like hand those keys over
and get the unit to the site.
So we're very much involvedwith meetings, coordinating with
owner GC to get the units there.
And just to add to that I knowwe're just talking about like
shipping logistics, but for theright projects in kind of the
greater Southeast, we have anetwork of partners we work
(10:14):
closely with.
So even the vertical aspect,once the units are there, they
have to be craned onto site,stitched to the foundation,
stitched together if they're twostory.
So we have a great structuralengineering partner who does all
of our structural engineeringof our units, but he also can do
different levels of scope onthe vertical aspect.
So some developers you knowwe're able to go to and let them
(10:36):
know that we can do the unit,we can get it there, and then
somebody that feels in-house Imean they're essentially an
extension of our team canoversee the craning, crane
analysis, handling all that,getting them set and stitched.
So that's been a huge value too.
And again, it's geographicallydependent on where that partner
(10:58):
will go, but then it truly isturnkey from start to finish.
We can help them get the unitsthere because that's one of the
pitfalls of modulars it's a lotof upfront planning and moving
parts, and if you can coordinatethat well and kind of
vertically integrate that forthe developers, they don't have
to figure it out.
Huge value from what we've beenhearing.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
Well, it sounds like you guys have learned a lot
along the way and are continuingto learn.
If you're able to say what aresome of the specific pitfalls
that you've come across and howhave you learned to avoid them?
Speaker 2 (11:32):
Yeah, I think a lot of it just comes down to
coordination.
We don't want to be a partneror a builder that is just kind
of like hands off and like well,you have to figure that out.
We want modular to besuccessful across the board and
so you know, we're listening tokind of the horror stories of
modular.
(11:52):
We were talking to a developerright now that when he met us
he's like just he, let us knowright up front.
He's like I do not like modular.
He'd hit some of those pitfallsof things not going together on
on site, not getting what heneeded, not knowing the full
scope of how that all works.
But we're winning him over 100%.
We're going to be buildinghomes with him because of our
(12:15):
approach, of the coordination,how much we're involved, the
ability to have a structuralengineer involved that can build
the foundations, that can setthe units.
So I think the pitfalls we goto all the to.
You know all the mbi events,world of modular, and we're
continually wanting to improveour services and and elevate you
(12:36):
know what we offer and and oneof the one of the breakout
sessions we went to at world ofmodular this year was kind of
the pitfalls of modular, likewhy it hasn't worked in certain
scenarios, and that was one ofthe best sessions I went to.
Got a lot of good informationon how we can better our
services for the client.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Well, we've talked about logistics quite a bit.
You mentioned working withdevelopers to get multi-story
buildings up, get foundationsbuilt.
What types of foundations orother structural challenges have
you helped developers overcomeand what was your approach?
How did you guide them throughthose challenges?
Speaker 2 (13:14):
Yeah, it's a really good question.
I think the biggest thing thatwe've done is finding a good,
trusted, valued partner in thestructural engineer.
So he's very knowledgeable andintimate with the designs of our
homes because through thecertification phase he's he's
the one designing the floorsystems and and doing all the
(13:35):
structural calcs.
So having him introducing himto the developer or the client
to to go out to the site,understand where the units are
going Is it steep, is it sloped?
You know what type offoundation does it need?
We were just in North Carolinalast week looking at steep slope
so our engineer can designelevated steel concrete
(13:59):
foundations that integrate fullywith the floor system we're
building, whether it's a woodfloor system, a steel floor.
It's just one of those thingsthat a GC to figure out on site,
having to coordinate multipleparties that aren't familiar
with how we're building it,being able to bring that into
our scope, has been huge.
So we're looking at steelelevated platforms, typical
(14:21):
crawl space foundations, slabfoundations, precast foundation
walls.
We're working closely with acompany that can design that to
just to integrate with our unitsand we're all taking that under
one roof and the developershave just kept saying that.
You know that's incredible tobe able to have that piece that
we don't have to figure out.
Speaker 1 (14:44):
So, based on your experience, how does a strong
network and it sounds likeyou've got one, you've got your
structural engineer in place,you've got other staff and
partners in place how does astrong network of architects and
engineers and GCs even helpsimplify the experience for
developers?
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Yeah, what we found is it's hard to be exceptional
and really good at everythingand we understand when we're not
.
You know, we're not civilengineers, we're not structural
engineers.
So I think identifying the bestpartners that are really good
at what they do and getting theminvolved early on is what's
going to make a projectsuccessful.
(15:25):
So we're continuing to buildthat out.
I think our close partner,that's a structural engineer
that can do the vertical work,was one of the biggest ones.
We're working with a civilengineer now on a townhome
project we're doing internallyhere in Cleveland, tennessee.
They're a nationwide company sowe can now tap into there's a
lot about civil engineering wedon't know, but they're learning
(15:47):
and intrigued by modular.
We're going to be doing aproject with them so we can tap
into civil engineers.
Our architect is licensed in alot of states and will get
licensed in a new state if hedoesn't have that, and they're
learning the ins and outs ofmodular and how to design around
that.
So it's been huge.
We don't have to figure it out.
You know, in the early days wewere very much.
(16:08):
You know we're scrappy.
We do like to problem solve andfigure it out, but that doesn't
mean we need to figure outareas where someone else is
exceptional.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
How do you vet or select your partners?
I'm sure you learned as youwent.
As you said, you got to thepoint where you needed outside
partners to come in and sort ofyou know, boost you guys up.
How did you select thosepartners?
What vetting process did theygo through to make sure they
aligned with your vision and howyou did things?
Speaker 2 (16:37):
Well, some of it's been just between Caleb, my
business partner.
You know, he and I both comefrom a construction trades
background, so we have a goodnetwork here in our area and,
like the southeast, so some ofit was just trusted partners
that we already knew.
Some of it's just trial anderror too, Like you do a project
with a partner and it's like,oh, they just didn't quite align
(16:58):
, whether it's the customerservice, the speed and urgency
quality.
So we try to find partners thatmatch our obsession of
providing a really qualityproduct and quality services If
those align and they'reinterested in diving into the
nuances of modular.
That's kind of the vettingprocess.
(17:20):
But so between a network thatwe already kind of had
established and then meeting newfolks along the way and kind of
trial and error, you kind ofland at kind of where we're at
now and we're still trying tobuild that out even further.
But I think we're getting closerto being able to offer a full
scope of services from start tofinish for a project.
(17:44):
You know, the last piece islike finding a GC that can do
all the finishing details onsite.
If it's too far away, like wedon't have a crew that we can
send off for weeks at a time tolike wrap up a project.
And we've done some projectswhere we hired that out and they
did not do it to the quality orthe customer service that we
would have, and so you know wedidn't use them again.
(18:05):
So trying to find crews thatcan go on site and do the site
work in a way that aligns withhow we would do it is really
important.
Speaker 1 (18:14):
You mentioned earlier in the conversation
pre-construction design servicesthat you provide.
I wanted to loop back to thatjust for a minute.
Can you walk us through what'sincluded in your
pre-construction design and howit sort of sets the stage for a
successful project?
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, like I'd mentioned, with modular products
, anybody doing modular knowsthat there's a lot more
coordination and planninginvolved.
There's different cooks in thekitchen, so to say, and so
knowing what all those are upfront, having a responsibility
matrix that we have and everyoneknows exactly what's in their
(18:55):
scope Is Wind River doing thisor is the GC doing this?
Or the owner?
So, up front, kind of layingthe whole project out, the steps
that we need to go through,making sure everyone's aligned
at the different stages, thatneeds to happen, and then we're
fully transparent, kind of anopen book.
We want to be honest abouteverything right from the start.
(19:16):
If things are going well, thecustomer knows.
If there's an issue, thecustomer is going to know and
not trying to circumnavigateanything.
I think building trust with thedeveloper and having that trust
within our network of partnersis key for a project to go well
and then for the customer.
On the design side, as we'regoing through the design, we get
(19:39):
down to the detail of likewhich way is the toilet paper
holder installed, like thelittle details, and then a final
cost, like the deliverable outof that pre-construction design
is a final set of plans that cango through certification and
get stamped through the stateand a contract price, whether
it's one unit or a volume order.
So having that process in place, just it's fully transparent.
(20:03):
The developer knows whatthey're getting and the costs
they're getting in that.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Have you seen cases, or do you have an example, where
all these pre-constructionconversations have prevented
rework later or kept you fromhaving to go and redo something
later in the process?
I was wondering if you couldgive me an example.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, so we've been doing modular now for almost two
years, once we moved into ournew facility.
So we have two big projectsthat we've completed.
We did 26 modular units forstudent housing at a local
university, kind of a village ofmodular homes mountain cottages
(20:45):
they call them.
So that was our first kind oftaste doing a larger project and
working with the engineers onsite and the GC and all of that.
And did it go perfectly?
No, but having our process inplace, we felt like it went
really smoothly and we learnedalong the way.
After every project we do apost-project, post-production
(21:07):
review and meeting with everyoneto go through what went well,
what didn't, what could bebetter, so that we can apply
that to the next project.
And then this order we'refulfilling right now of 75 units
, and then this order we'refilling right now of 75 units.
You know, at the beginning ofthat there was a lot of things
(21:28):
not in our scope or that wedidn't know how they were
handling.
But because of the experiencethey had we brought new things
into our scope because like wecould go to them and be like no,
we can handle that and we candesign it that way to reduce the
amount of subcontractors andwork that they had to do on site
contractors and work that theyhad to do on site.
So, over that one yearengagement, we've come out of
that with a much better processand like what we can, what we
can offer.
And, just on that note, ourstructural engineer is going to
(21:52):
be.
He won the contract to set allthose units.
It's like half halfway throughwe were planning for the GC that
they had at the time to do allthat setting and trying to you,
trying to introduce them to thedesign.
Here's how you're going tobuild the porches and connect
everything.
Well, now our structuralengineer will be doing all that,
which is just an extension ofour team, and that was huge for
(22:15):
them.
It's just one thing they don'thave to worry about.
To worry about and all thelittle roadblocks that you hit,
things you have to overcomealong the way when it's in that
network and in that house.
In house, um, there's a lot ofconversations and meetings that
happen that the owner, developerdon't even know about.
Or you know, they didn't haveto coordinate three or four
different groups.
We had an issue, we problemsolved it internally and it was
(22:38):
just something that they didn'thave to deal with.
We just figured it out andthat's the feedback we're
getting, like what roadblockscan we remove from them?
What headaches can we help themwith?
The less that they have to doonsite for the project, the
better.
All saying that that they arestill very much involved in all
the meetings, but that's reallyhelpful for them from what we've
(23:01):
been hearing.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
Well, travis, this has been great.
I really appreciate your time.
Before I let you go, I have onemore question for you as a
relatively new modularmanufacturer, I know you started
as a tiny home business.
You've grown since then, soyou've been in the industry a
while.
I was wondering what advice youcould offer other manufacturers
who are just getting going.
What would you suggest to themin terms of making connections
(23:25):
with owner developers, deepeningthose relationships?
What should new manufacturersbe doing to grow their business
and invite developers in?
Speaker 2 (23:36):
You know, networking comes in a lot of different
forms and ways but for so manyyears we were just head down
small company just getting thework done and like, not focused
on building relationships.
We were just so busy and didn'thave that capacity.
And in the last few years, youknow, going to events and
networking whether it's planningmeetings in your local
(23:58):
municipality, joining differentgroups within the community,
builders associations, theModular Building Institute the
events that you all put on havebeen huge and just networking
with others in the industry andother partners that can help us
grow our services and our team.
So I think just really gettingout there and bumping shoulders
(24:22):
with people and it's I alwayssay it's like kind of playing
the long game, like networkingisn't just going to get you a
sale or get you a bill rightaway, but that referral and
repeat customer getting yourname out there, and it really
takes just getting a project offthe ground and kind of a case
study to understand, to be ableto go out and show people what
(24:43):
you're capable of and yourproduct is huge.
And the last thing I'd say isalways be focused on the value
that you can bring to thedeveloper.
You have to put yourself intheir shoes and understand their
frustrations and concerns andbe able to confidently answer
that and concerns and be able toconfidently answer that.
So we always look at it throughthe lens.
What can we be doing to bringvalue to our customers and
(25:06):
developers?
And if you approach it that way, with high integrity and
transparency, you're going tobuild relationships with
developers that are going tolast and keep that pipeline
filled, which is what we're alltrying to do.
Is as controlled as modular is.
That's one of the hard thingsis like.
Keeping the facility full andhaving those projects and I
(25:28):
truly think it's going to berepeat and referral and not so
much focus on just gettingorganic sales in but doing the
next project with these folksthat you've done successful
projects with.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
Absolutely, absolutely.
Thank you so much, travis.
I really appreciate your timetoday.
I can't wait to see thecompletion of this project
you're working on.
Congratulations again.
75 units is no small task.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
And you know.
Thanks again.
This is.
This has been a greatconversation.
I appreciate it, thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
John Really enjoyed being on here with you.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
My name is John McMullen.
This has been another episodeof Inside Modular, the podcast
of commercial modularconstruction.
Until next time.
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