March 27, 2025 • 24 mins
In this episode of the Inside Out Culture podcast we share the Ted Talks that have inspired us and that we share with others in our workshops.
They are as follows:
- How to Start a Movement - Derek Sivers
- Forget the Pecking Order at Work - Margaret Heffernan
- The Transformative Power of Classical Music - Benjamin Zander
- Do Schools Kill Creativity - Ken Robinson
- Everyday Leadership - Drew Dudley
- Why winning doesn’t always equal success - Valorie Kondos Field
---
Join us as we reveal strategies to close the gap and craft a workplace where values are not just spoken, but lived and breathed, paving the way for a more authentic and engaging organisational culture.
Instagram: @insideoutculture
Email your questions to: insideoutculture@gmail.com
Receive the Culture Leaders Action Sheet: bit.ly/iocpmail
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colin (00:02):
Welcome to the Inside Out Culture Podcast, where we look
at insides of working cultureand provide ideas, insights and
actions for you to take on theoutside.
I'm Colin Ellis.
Cath (00:12):
And I'm Cath Bishop, and in each episode we'll examine a
different question or adifferent organization, and
we'll use case studies, researchand our own insights and
experiences to help you changethe way things get done in your
world.
Colin (00:27):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please like, subscribe and, ofcourse, let us know what you
think.
Hello everybody, Welcome toanother episode of the Inside
Out Culture Podcast, and todayCath and I are going to be
talking about our favourite TEDTalks.
We didn't talk about thisbefore, but what was the first
one you remember watching, Cath?
Can you remember TED Talks?
Cath (00:48):
Oh, I think it might be one of the ones that I'm going
to choose, actually.
Colin (00:51):
Oh, okay.
Cath (00:52):
Yeah, that's good.
Do you have a specific memory?
Yeah, I have a specific memory.
Colin (00:56):
It was Simon Sinek's TED Talk on.
Cath (01:00):
Oh yes, what was it?
It the why and the how?
Yeah, people buy.
Why people don't buy what?
Colin (01:06):
that's right, yeah people don't buy what you do.
They buy why you do it, whichis nonsense.
But yes, that was the first onethat I remember and yeah, I've,
I'd say, and Cath done two tedtalks.
We shouldn't it like you should.
The thing at the end that yougo need to go and do is watch
both of Cath TED talks.
They're quite old now it as athing.
Cath (01:28):
I often recommend it to people, actually sort of
sometimes as part of coaching,if they're sort of either
wanting to think about theircareer or who are they as a
leader.
And I'll say imagine you'regoing to give TED talk, maybe
just a five minute one, becausethere are now these TED shorts
how would you sort of put itinto that?
Or people who are thinkingabout writing a book and they're
like I don't know what thetheme would be, I don't quite
know.
I've got these different ideasand I'm like well, could you
(01:51):
create a TED Talk?
That's your USP, that's who youare.
So I do think it's quite auseful concept for things like
that to really hone in on what'syour key message, what are the
two or three stories that wouldreally demonstrate that?
And so it is a good thoughtdeveloper as a tool.
(02:11):
It's hard because you have tobe really disciplined about what
you leave out and you have toreally be clear about what you
want to say.
So the process of doing one isas important as what the outcome
is.
Colin (02:24):
Right.
Well, let's talk about ourfavorite TED Talks.
I'll get straight into mine,and my first one is a favorite
of mine, which I share in all ofmy workshops, and it's by a guy
called Derek Sivers.
Derek Sivers, I think, is asoftware developer, or was a
software developer.
He developed some softwarearound like a.
It's like a Napster-type app,for those that you remember it.
(02:45):
I think that's what it is.
I'm not suggesting any wayshape or form.
It was piracy, but it was someform of music app that he then
sold, which allowed him to doother things.
From what I've read about himI've read a couple of his books
he's a fairly introvertedindividual, which makes this
three minute TED talk on how tostart a movement all the more
(03:06):
impressive if he's nervous toactually do it.
It's called how to Start aMovement.
Basically what he does in threeminutes, or just over three
minutes, he completelydeconstructs leadership.
As listeners to the show willknow, Cath and I have talked
about this a lot.
Leadership is one of thosethings that are very, very
difficult to do.
We talk a lot about leadership.
It's very, very difficult toput yourself into service to
(03:27):
somebody else 100% of the time.
It's almost impossible, but theintent has to be there.
And what basically Derek Siverstalked about and how to start a
movement, is about becomingsomebody that people would
follow, and which is when I sawthis TED talk, you know and I
was just starting out in my owncareer I'm like this I want to
(03:47):
be someone that people wouldfollow, but then it's really,
really important and he talksabout this in his TED talk to
nurture that first follower asan equal and recognize the
ripple effect that followershave.
The other thing that he talksabout is publicly proclaiming
your standpoint this is who I am, this is what I stand for but
(04:09):
then being accountable to that.
It's not enough, and we talkedabout this in a previous podcast
.
It's not enough just to saythese things.
You have to live it everysingle minute of every single
day.
And the last thing he talkedabout every single day and the
last thing he talked about whichI loved is this kind of
cultural sensitivity is how thecontext within which you're
(04:30):
working really influences thedynamics of your leadership
style.
I think often what I've seen insome organizations is people get
into leadership roles and thenthey go.
I'm a leader now.
The hard work is done, whenreally it's just beginning, and
so I really love this kind ofhow to start a movement, and
(04:52):
whenever I look at greatcultures, Cisco is a client of
mine a fabulous culture.
Why is it a fabulous culture?
Because Chuck Robbins, the CEO,is that guy that started the
movement.
The CEO is that guy thatstarted the movement.
He's a fabulously personableguy, even though he oversees
this multi-billion dollarorganization, but he knows what
(05:13):
he stands for.
He puts it out there, he's gottime for every member of staff
that he comes into contact with,and Cisco continually evolves
to meet the environment in whichthey're operating right now.
So that would be my first pick.
Cath (05:27):
Really strong themes there .
Followership is something,isn't it, that often the
military talk about as well, asa really key element of
leadership which you can seeworking there.
We also see how, in this socialmedia world, my God, the whole
concept of followers has morphedinto something where it's
really hard to feel that you'reperhaps equal with everyone and
have that connected relationship.
So, yeah, I look forward tolooking at that.
(05:50):
So I'm going to start with myabsolute all-time favourite,
which is from Margaret Heffernan, and it is called Forget the
Pecking Order at Work.
I love all her books.
She's got another one comingout in 2025 about how artists
and creative actors, et cetera,the creative world, embrace
uncertainty and I think, whatleaders and the organizational
(06:10):
world can lead from that.
But her pecking order TED Talkis a great one.
She tells the story of anevolutionary biologist who
studied chickens, and he wasinterested in the question of
productivity, which is, ofcourse, something we talk about,
everybody talks about inorganizations, everybody wants
more of, and he said he usedchickens because you can count
(06:31):
the eggs, so it's an easymeasure of productivity, and he
wanted to know what would makehis chickens more productive.
So he devised this littleexperiment and, of course,
chicken live in groups.
So he had one group that wasjust a sort of average flock,
and he just left it alone forsix generations.
He then created a second groupof the individually most
(06:52):
productive chickens, maybe sortof, you know, the superstar
chickens, super chickens, and heput them together in a super
flock and each time he justselected only the most
productive ones for breeding.
So then the experiment kind ofgoes on, and after six
generations what was the result?
Well, the first group, theaverage group, were doing great,
(07:15):
they were plump and whatever.
Egg production had increaseddramatically.
And in the second group all butthree were dead.
They'd pecked the rest to death.
The individually productivechickens had only achieved their
success by suppressing theproductivity of the rest.
So it's just such a lovelystory and it really.
Then she goes on to hone in onthe importance of social
(07:40):
connectedness and there's lotsof research around social
capital and that that is whatcreates a robust company that
has a kind of momentum, a senseof growth, a sense of innovation
, and I just think it's a greatlisten.
I love all her work.
She is very thoughtful and yetit's all common sense, and so
(08:03):
she really kind of attacks thisquestion of you know the
superstar cultures and you knowrecruiting the top of the top of
the top.
You know, because actually it'swhat happens between people
that matters and that'ssomething that I've seen and
experienced and see in the workthat I do that we really want to
kind of think about whathappens between people.
(08:23):
And again, she uses theartistic world, the music world,
where sometimes when they'relooking at auditions and the
Royal Academies, they'reactually not just looking for
individual superstars, they'relooking for what happens between
people, because that's wherethe drama occurs.
And for me, I find increasinglymy work in organizations I'm
helping people think,particularly when we're looking
(08:44):
at teams becoming better as ateam, at what's happening
between you.
Yeah, that's where the kind ofbeauty happens.
Colin (08:52):
I like the idea of super chickens.
Cath (08:55):
No, no, no, we don't want super chickens.
Colin (08:58):
Yeah, they've all got these little capes on and
they're running around.
It's a really great TED Talk,again, if you haven't seen it,
and I love those TED talks.
And Brene Brown doesn't makeour list, and yet Brene Brown's
TED talks are peppered withhumor, and for me humor is
crucially important.
Which brings me onto my secondone, which also then touches on
(09:19):
music.
Now, as someone who uses musicin the, so I use music in my
workshops a lot and I rememberthe vet it was either the very
first or the second workshopthat I did with music.
Someone said to me oh, that's,that's quite a novel approach
using music.
I didn't think it was thatnovel.
I'd been to a workshop yearsand years ago that used music
and I loved it.
I was like I'm going to copythat and so I was like, oh right
(09:41):
, no-transcript.
(10:05):
So he talks about vision, hetalks about possibility, all
through the medium of music.
The reason that I love the TEDTalk and I mentioned right at
the start the anti-establishmentnature is vision, kind of.
With a TED talk, there's like alittle area where you're
supposed to stand and you don'treally move and you deliver.
He just goes into the crowdstraight away Like nobody's
expecting it.
He goes straight into theaudience, starts interacting
(10:27):
with people and the camera'skind of if you watch it, the
camera's kind of trying tofollow him go, what's he doing?
Why is he in there?
But it's fabulous.
So he talks about vision, hetalks about possibility, he
talks about leadership, abouthow it's not about command and
control Again, all through thiskind of conductor because he's a
conductor of an orchestra andit's about the leader's role is
(10:48):
awakening the possibility inothers.
What you're swept along withand it's a fairly long TED Talk,
but it's one of those thingsyou can't stop watching because
he's just so passionate abouthis subject matter and you know
that it means something to himand I guess that's where passion
comes from is that sense ofauthenticity around this subject
(11:10):
matter.
You just can't fail to be sweptalong with it and obviously
there's a lot of it'scredibility.
But the key thing that he talksabout is he talks about the long
line, and the long line isdon't get bogged down in the
day-to-day minutiae, theday-to-day detail, and it's very
easy for us to do that.
(11:31):
When I first saw the TED Talk,I was working in a government
job and at that time I must'vebeen bogged down in the
day-to-day details you do in thepublic service and it just gave
me the sense of, yeah, justkeep focusing on the vision,
focus on the medium to long-termgoals.
I was very much thinking aboutmy own development at those
times.
Those day-to-day issues arejust challenges that you need to
(11:55):
overcome in order to get youdown what he calls the long line
, and obviously we talk a lotabout culture and it being
evolutionary.
Cath even wrote the book theLong Win.
These things take time.
Yes, there are things that youhave to do day to day, but it's
keeping that center focus.
And then the last thing that Itook from it, which I mentioned,
(12:16):
is this the sense of breakingconvention.
There are certain conventionsand I'm pretty sure he used the
TED Talk and the way that he didit as a mechanism to
demonstrate how you should dothat.
And again, that's somethingelse that I always did in my
career is I recognized theconventions that were worth
breaking, and I'm not talkingabout breaking rules, I'm
(12:38):
talking about challengingcertain things, but there are
just culture.
You know we're very socialanimals.
We tend to follow a lot andsometimes we follow the bad as
well as the good, and so youknow he very much made the point
about, there are these rules,there are these conventions, and
I think the example he used wasChopin and he said you know,
there are some things that youcan challenge that will give you
(13:00):
an advantage.
So yes, that's my second.
One is Benjamin Sanders.
Cath (13:04):
I really like his book the Art of Possibility, and that is
something I drew on, a lot kindof writing my own book.
He's a very inspirationalcharacter.
So my second one is actuallygoing back to a real
inspirational character, a realclassic.
I think it's sort of one of theleading TED Talks of all time.
It is the incredible, sir KenRobinson, do Schools Kill
(13:25):
Creativity?
And he tells stories in such acompelling way.
And he just takes this step backto think about what is
education for, how have we nowconstructed it?
And he talks about how, if analien came to look at education,
sit and say, oh, what are youtrying to do?
You're trying to rank people,find out who's the best at
something.
Why are we hierarchical abouteducation?
(13:48):
Why aren't we unlocking whatevery child is capable of?
So, in a similar way toBenjamin Zander, in a way, he's
trying to explore humanpossibility and he realizes
that's a very diverse thing andwe don't all have to look the
same and this sort of muchbroader sense of what are we
capable of, and for us to getmore aware of our education
(14:08):
systems, but also our worksystems, which are stifling us,
constraining us.
Again, we have this questionabout how do we achieve higher
targets at work?
How do we become moreproductive?
The question is not byconstraining people, and yet
often the culture, the ways ofworking are doing that, and so I
just love this idea of seeingeveryone in terms of what are
(14:32):
they capable of, what creativeideas they have.
And, of course, children arefull of such incredible ways of
thinking that aren't stuck insilos and they ask the
impossible and they want to drawthe impossible.
And he tells this lovely storyof a little child who is drawing
something.
The teacher says what are youdrawing?
And he says, oh, I'm drawingGod.
(14:52):
And the teacher says, oh, butno one knows what God looks like
.
And he says, oh well, they willin a minute.
Just gorgeous, really againinspiring and tapping into that
sense of endless possibilitythat's within each of us, and
that, for me, is a really, yeah,really warming, optimistic view
that we need in this kind ofsometimes challenging world.
Colin (15:13):
It's brilliant, utterly inspiring.
It is the most popular.
I just checked it's the mostpopular 26 million.
Maybe more than that 78.3million views.
It's from 2006.
Still relevant today, yeah.
Unfortunately, that's what's soamazing it's still relevant
today.
Okay, my last one is actually afairly obscure one, by a guy
(15:37):
called Drew Dudley, who did aTED talk on everyday leadership
and, much like MargaretHeffernan, where she focuses on
the small common sense thingsthat you can do.
This was a 2010, I think,recorded in Toronto.
If anyone's seen it, drewDudley he's got this really big
hat on.
Yeah, just utterly memorable.
Everyday leadership.
(15:58):
The key thing that I took fromit he talks about the impact of
small acts, which he callslollipop moments, and he tells
this great story about how he'scollecting money for charity and
he's doing it at a universitywhere parents are dropping their
children off for the first time, and he could tell there was a
really nervous student gettingout of the car.
(16:19):
She really didn't want to goand so he went over and gave her
a lollipop because he was doingthe.
I think it was for cysticfibrosis that he was doing this
collection for.
He gave her a lollipop and hesaid to the parents look at that
, she's already taking candyfrom a stranger.
It kind of broke the ice andthen this other guy came over.
Anyway, long story short, thesetwo people that met on this
very first day ended up gettingmarried.
(16:40):
He got invited to the I'mspoiling the TED talk for you.
He tells it way better,obviously.
However, the point is and thelollipop moments is you don't
realize and this is the everydayleadership you don't realize
that the impact that you, yourbehavior, has on people at any
one time.
And I remember doing aninterview, I think it was last
(17:03):
year, and the interviewer saidto me something like what's one
thing that you're alwaysthinking about and obviously,
besides the family and all thesekinds of things, I said I'm
always thinking about what'sthat one interaction that I can
have today that might make adifference to the person that
I'm interacting with?
Because it would be very easyjust to think about yourself all
(17:24):
of the time, and it all comesback.
That answer comes back to DrewDudley's TED Talk on everyday
leadership is those smallmoments every day.
He also talked about the senseof satisfaction that he took
from it, not in a kind of hubriskind of way, but celebrating
the small win for yourself tosay today I did a really good
(17:46):
thing, not telling your mates Iwas brilliant today, but today
and that made him feel good.
So, yeah, everyday Leadershipby Drew Dudley would be my third
one Brilliant.
Cath (17:56):
It reminded me of a book actually that came out last year
by a fantastic executive coach,sarah Langslow, which is called
Do Sweat the Small Stuff, andit's making a lot of those
points as part of it.
Right, for my third one, I'mgoing into the sports world to
Valerie Condos-Field, who is anincredible gymnastic champion,
(18:19):
and it's a very moving talk.
It's called why Winning Doesn'tAlways Equal Success and it
came out in 2019.
And it came out.
It was very.
For me, it was just a kind ofmoment of reinforcing the belief
in the concept of the long win.
I'd been writing the book forthree years.
It was more or less finishedand I still felt it was really
(18:42):
heretical and dangerous andrisky to challenge winning.
It had to be anything otherthan good.
It's the only thing thatmatters.
And I heard her TED talk and Ithought, yeah, it's so obvious
that we've got things wrong andit just gave me that sort of
conviction.
I actually reached out to her.
She was very lovely, wrote me atestimonial, got really.
You had a lovely conversation.
(19:03):
But her talk in 2019 is allabout why winning doesn't always
equal success.
She's an incredibly successfulgymnastics coach in America in
terms of championships won, butshe actually talks about that
isn't success, you know, justwinning the trophy, but she
actually talks about that isn'tsuccess, you know, just winning
(19:24):
the trophy.
She talks about the crisis inwin at all costs, cultures that
are in our schools andbusinesses and politics and how,
you know, we honor the peopleat the top of the pyramid.
We applaud those who winchampionships or elections or
awards, but often they areactually leaving their
institutions, their professionsas damaged human beings.
Kids with straight A's they'releaving school damaged.
(19:49):
Athletes are leaving theirteams with medals, but they're
damaged emotionally, mentally,and the same in the
organizational world.
We've become so hyper focusedon the end result that the human
component of how we got theregets swept under the rug and so
does all the damage.
She tells some beautiful storiesof herself, how she started off
, sort of copying what shethought good coaching was, being
dogmatic dictator all the time,but realizing eventually that
(20:13):
actually that kind of producescompliant, good little soldiers,
good little gymnast, but itdoesn't develop what she calls
champions in life.
It doesn't enable people toreally you know again explore
what they're capable of be theperson, help them become the
person that they want to be.
And she tells a beautiful storyaround Caitlin O'Hashey, who's
someone who's had this, who hada gymnastics video that went
(20:35):
viral, you know, who arrived ather gym broken in body,
completely, you know, hatinggymnastics, supposedly on a sort
of scholarship, but saying, youknow, I don't want to be good
again.
And she was like my goodness,you know, chris, is how the hell
am I going to turn this aroundand how could somebody who's so
(20:56):
brilliant get to that point?
And you know, it's her journeyof kind of learning, that of
seeing the human, not thegymnast, and really challenging
her own ways of operating,listening to feedback, not just
seeing somebody as somebody whoscores points, but as somebody
who's learning and growing andfiguring stuff out.
So it's bringing that kind ofhuman piece back into our
(21:19):
definitions of success.
I'm very aligned with the longway and I quote from Ed and, as
I say, she, you know, kindlyendorsed the book.
But it's just a beautifulexample from someone who's very
eloquent, who's lived, you know,and explored this question of
what is success.
Colin (21:36):
So that would I mean, they're our favorite TED Talks.
If you've got a favorite TEDTalk maybe we haven't mentioned
it or haven't referred to it,please do drop us a line inside
out culture at gmailcom.
Uh, we, you know, we are alwayslooking for ideas.
We're always looking forinspiration.
Every, at the end of every show, we end with three things
something to do, something toget curious about, something to
uncover.
Uh, which I just captured here,Cath, as as we were going
(21:57):
through, I think, do look forinspiration everywhere.
I think if you can develop ordevote it's probably a better
word, devote, I don't know 30minutes a day to looking for a
little bit of inspiration it'soften hard to do, I know, but if
you can look for it and itdoesn't have to be a TED Talk,
it can just be in an interactionthat you witness.
Cath (22:17):
It can be a moment.
It can be a moment.
Yeah, it's not time bound butyeah, absolutely so.
Colin (22:22):
Something to do.
Look for inspiration everywhere.
Uh, get curious about theaction that you can take.
You know, Cath, I don't knowabout you, but sometimes I watch
a ted talk.
I think, gosh, how do I do that?
But there's usually one thingright, one thing that you can do
.
Cath (22:33):
You're like, okay, well, here's something that I can do,
even sharing, just gosh, thishas really struck me, it's
really resonated with me, and sosharing that can be a great way
of also helping that process.
Colin (22:45):
Well, that's the thing to uncover.
Is one idea worth sharing?
I think that's the tagline forTED Talks anyway.
Is ideas worth sharing.
Don't keep them to yourself.
If you found something worthsharing, don't keep it to
yourself.
You know, we just shared thesix TED Talks that we like, but
you know, if there's one thatreally inspires you, why not
share it with other people andsay no, you can't force them to
(23:05):
watch it, but you know, I foundthis really interesting.
I think you might too, but nowit makes me want to go and watch
more TED Talks.
Cath (23:12):
I know there's just so many ideas out there, but, yeah,
I think we often consumeslightly randomly, don't we?
Just whatever comes up on thephone, and so make a conscious
choice to I really want to watchthis today, or I'm going to
share this, you know, asksomebody else, because often
people have played around andgot a couple that they really
like.
So it's also a great sort ofconversation across the team.
Some people are very into them,some might never watch them.
(23:34):
People also.
Often, you know, it enables youto go in a different direction,
a non-work direction, someonewho's really into music or
really into sport, you know andthen they offer stories and
metaphors that, of course, applyacross the organizational world
too.
So it often opens our minds,ideas, possibilities, and I
think we need a bit more of thatin a world that often has too
(23:54):
many constraints.
Colin (23:54):
Yeah, and different people consume different types
of content.
You know, Cath and I, you know,write regularly.
Cath written for the Guardian.
I write a daily blog and peoplelike those short things or they
like the longer things.
I write a really long article.
That people like that, butmaybe not the short one.
People will like to watchvideos.
Some people like audio books,people like podcasts, like this.
(24:15):
Yeah, recognize that differentcontent can provide different
inspiration at different timesand, yeah, broaden your horizons
and see which one works bestfor you.
Great Thanks, very much.
Thanks so much, until next time.
Cath (24:28):
Thanks for listening to today's Inside Out Culture.
Colin (24:31):
Podcast.
Please remember to like,subscribe and, of course, share
with others who you think may beinterested.
Welcome to the Inside Out Culture Podcast, where we look
at insides of working cultureand provide ideas, insights and
actions for you to take on theoutside.
I'm Colin Ellis.
Cath (00:12):
And I'm Cath Bishop, and in each episode we'll examine a
different question or adifferent organization, and
we'll use case studies, researchand our own insights and
experiences to help you changethe way things get done in your
world.
Colin (00:27):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please like, subscribe and, ofcourse, let us know what you
think.
Hello everybody, Welcome toanother episode of the Inside
Out Culture Podcast, and todayCath and I are going to be
talking about our favourite TEDTalks.
We didn't talk about thisbefore, but what was the first
one you remember watching, Cath?
Can you remember TED Talks?
Cath (00:48):
Oh, I think it might be one of the ones that I'm going
to choose, actually.
Colin (00:51):
Oh, okay.
Cath (00:52):
Yeah, that's good.
Do you have a specific memory?
Yeah, I have a specific memory.
Colin (00:56):
It was Simon Sinek's TED Talk on.
Cath (01:00):
Oh yes, what was it?
It the why and the how?
Yeah, people buy.
Why people don't buy what?
Colin (01:06):
that's right, yeah people don't buy what you do.
They buy why you do it, whichis nonsense.
But yes, that was the first onethat I remember and yeah, I've,
I'd say, and Cath done two tedtalks.
We shouldn't it like you should.
The thing at the end that yougo need to go and do is watch
both of Cath TED talks.
They're quite old now it as athing.
Cath (01:28):
I often recommend it to people, actually sort of
sometimes as part of coaching,if they're sort of either
wanting to think about theircareer or who are they as a
leader.
And I'll say imagine you'regoing to give TED talk, maybe
just a five minute one, becausethere are now these TED shorts
how would you sort of put itinto that?
Or people who are thinkingabout writing a book and they're
like I don't know what thetheme would be, I don't quite
know.
I've got these different ideasand I'm like well, could you
(01:51):
create a TED Talk?
That's your USP, that's who youare.
So I do think it's quite auseful concept for things like
that to really hone in on what'syour key message, what are the
two or three stories that wouldreally demonstrate that?
And so it is a good thoughtdeveloper as a tool.
(02:11):
It's hard because you have tobe really disciplined about what
you leave out and you have toreally be clear about what you
want to say.
So the process of doing one isas important as what the outcome
is.
Colin (02:24):
Right.
Well, let's talk about ourfavorite TED Talks.
I'll get straight into mine,and my first one is a favorite
of mine, which I share in all ofmy workshops, and it's by a guy
called Derek Sivers.
Derek Sivers, I think, is asoftware developer, or was a
software developer.
He developed some softwarearound like a.
It's like a Napster-type app,for those that you remember it.
(02:45):
I think that's what it is.
I'm not suggesting any wayshape or form.
It was piracy, but it was someform of music app that he then
sold, which allowed him to doother things.
From what I've read about himI've read a couple of his books
he's a fairly introvertedindividual, which makes this
three minute TED talk on how tostart a movement all the more
(03:06):
impressive if he's nervous toactually do it.
It's called how to Start aMovement.
Basically what he does in threeminutes, or just over three
minutes, he completelydeconstructs leadership.
As listeners to the show willknow, Cath and I have talked
about this a lot.
Leadership is one of thosethings that are very, very
difficult to do.
We talk a lot about leadership.
It's very, very difficult toput yourself into service to
(03:27):
somebody else 100% of the time.
It's almost impossible, but theintent has to be there.
And what basically Derek Siverstalked about and how to start a
movement, is about becomingsomebody that people would
follow, and which is when I sawthis TED talk, you know and I
was just starting out in my owncareer I'm like this I want to
(03:47):
be someone that people wouldfollow, but then it's really,
really important and he talksabout this in his TED talk to
nurture that first follower asan equal and recognize the
ripple effect that followershave.
The other thing that he talksabout is publicly proclaiming
your standpoint this is who I am, this is what I stand for but
(04:09):
then being accountable to that.
It's not enough, and we talkedabout this in a previous podcast
.
It's not enough just to saythese things.
You have to live it everysingle minute of every single
day.
And the last thing he talkedabout every single day and the
last thing he talked about whichI loved is this kind of
cultural sensitivity is how thecontext within which you're
(04:30):
working really influences thedynamics of your leadership
style.
I think often what I've seen insome organizations is people get
into leadership roles and thenthey go.
I'm a leader now.
The hard work is done, whenreally it's just beginning, and
so I really love this kind ofhow to start a movement, and
(04:52):
whenever I look at greatcultures, Cisco is a client of
mine a fabulous culture.
Why is it a fabulous culture?
Because Chuck Robbins, the CEO,is that guy that started the
movement.
The CEO is that guy thatstarted the movement.
He's a fabulously personableguy, even though he oversees
this multi-billion dollarorganization, but he knows what
(05:13):
he stands for.
He puts it out there, he's gottime for every member of staff
that he comes into contact with,and Cisco continually evolves
to meet the environment in whichthey're operating right now.
So that would be my first pick.
Cath (05:27):
Really strong themes there .
Followership is something,isn't it, that often the
military talk about as well, asa really key element of
leadership which you can seeworking there.
We also see how, in this socialmedia world, my God, the whole
concept of followers has morphedinto something where it's
really hard to feel that you'reperhaps equal with everyone and
have that connected relationship.
So, yeah, I look forward tolooking at that.
(05:50):
So I'm going to start with myabsolute all-time favourite,
which is from Margaret Heffernan, and it is called Forget the
Pecking Order at Work.
I love all her books.
She's got another one comingout in 2025 about how artists
and creative actors, et cetera,the creative world, embrace
uncertainty and I think, whatleaders and the organizational
(06:10):
world can lead from that.
But her pecking order TED Talkis a great one.
She tells the story of anevolutionary biologist who
studied chickens, and he wasinterested in the question of
productivity, which is, ofcourse, something we talk about,
everybody talks about inorganizations, everybody wants
more of, and he said he usedchickens because you can count
(06:31):
the eggs, so it's an easymeasure of productivity, and he
wanted to know what would makehis chickens more productive.
So he devised this littleexperiment and, of course,
chicken live in groups.
So he had one group that wasjust a sort of average flock,
and he just left it alone forsix generations.
He then created a second groupof the individually most
(06:52):
productive chickens, maybe sortof, you know, the superstar
chickens, super chickens, and heput them together in a super
flock and each time he justselected only the most
productive ones for breeding.
So then the experiment kind ofgoes on, and after six
generations what was the result?
Well, the first group, theaverage group, were doing great,
(07:15):
they were plump and whatever.
Egg production had increaseddramatically.
And in the second group all butthree were dead.
They'd pecked the rest to death.
The individually productivechickens had only achieved their
success by suppressing theproductivity of the rest.
So it's just such a lovelystory and it really.
Then she goes on to hone in onthe importance of social
(07:40):
connectedness and there's lotsof research around social
capital and that that is whatcreates a robust company that
has a kind of momentum, a senseof growth, a sense of innovation
, and I just think it's a greatlisten.
I love all her work.
She is very thoughtful and yetit's all common sense, and so
(08:03):
she really kind of attacks thisquestion of you know the
superstar cultures and you knowrecruiting the top of the top of
the top.
You know, because actually it'swhat happens between people
that matters and that'ssomething that I've seen and
experienced and see in the workthat I do that we really want to
kind of think about whathappens between people.
(08:23):
And again, she uses theartistic world, the music world,
where sometimes when they'relooking at auditions and the
Royal Academies, they'reactually not just looking for
individual superstars, they'relooking for what happens between
people, because that's wherethe drama occurs.
And for me, I find increasinglymy work in organizations I'm
helping people think,particularly when we're looking
(08:44):
at teams becoming better as ateam, at what's happening
between you.
Yeah, that's where the kind ofbeauty happens.
Colin (08:52):
I like the idea of super chickens.
Cath (08:55):
No, no, no, we don't want super chickens.
Colin (08:58):
Yeah, they've all got these little capes on and
they're running around.
It's a really great TED Talk,again, if you haven't seen it,
and I love those TED talks.
And Brene Brown doesn't makeour list, and yet Brene Brown's
TED talks are peppered withhumor, and for me humor is
crucially important.
Which brings me onto my secondone, which also then touches on
(09:19):
music.
Now, as someone who uses musicin the, so I use music in my
workshops a lot and I rememberthe vet it was either the very
first or the second workshopthat I did with music.
Someone said to me oh, that's,that's quite a novel approach
using music.
I didn't think it was thatnovel.
I'd been to a workshop yearsand years ago that used music
and I loved it.
I was like I'm going to copythat and so I was like, oh right
(09:41):
, no-transcript.
(10:05):
So he talks about vision, hetalks about possibility, all
through the medium of music.
The reason that I love the TEDTalk and I mentioned right at
the start the anti-establishmentnature is vision, kind of.
With a TED talk, there's like alittle area where you're
supposed to stand and you don'treally move and you deliver.
He just goes into the crowdstraight away Like nobody's
expecting it.
He goes straight into theaudience, starts interacting
(10:27):
with people and the camera'skind of if you watch it, the
camera's kind of trying tofollow him go, what's he doing?
Why is he in there?
But it's fabulous.
So he talks about vision, hetalks about possibility, he
talks about leadership, abouthow it's not about command and
control Again, all through thiskind of conductor because he's a
conductor of an orchestra andit's about the leader's role is
(10:48):
awakening the possibility inothers.
What you're swept along withand it's a fairly long TED Talk,
but it's one of those thingsyou can't stop watching because
he's just so passionate abouthis subject matter and you know
that it means something to himand I guess that's where passion
comes from is that sense ofauthenticity around this subject
(11:10):
matter.
You just can't fail to be sweptalong with it and obviously
there's a lot of it'scredibility.
But the key thing that he talksabout is he talks about the long
line, and the long line isdon't get bogged down in the
day-to-day minutiae, theday-to-day detail, and it's very
easy for us to do that.
(11:31):
When I first saw the TED Talk,I was working in a government
job and at that time I must'vebeen bogged down in the
day-to-day details you do in thepublic service and it just gave
me the sense of, yeah, justkeep focusing on the vision,
focus on the medium to long-termgoals.
I was very much thinking aboutmy own development at those
times.
Those day-to-day issues arejust challenges that you need to
(11:55):
overcome in order to get youdown what he calls the long line
, and obviously we talk a lotabout culture and it being
evolutionary.
Cath even wrote the book theLong Win.
These things take time.
Yes, there are things that youhave to do day to day, but it's
keeping that center focus.
And then the last thing that Itook from it, which I mentioned,
(12:16):
is this the sense of breakingconvention.
There are certain conventionsand I'm pretty sure he used the
TED Talk and the way that he didit as a mechanism to
demonstrate how you should dothat.
And again, that's somethingelse that I always did in my
career is I recognized theconventions that were worth
breaking, and I'm not talkingabout breaking rules, I'm
(12:38):
talking about challengingcertain things, but there are
just culture.
You know we're very socialanimals.
We tend to follow a lot andsometimes we follow the bad as
well as the good, and so youknow he very much made the point
about, there are these rules,there are these conventions, and
I think the example he used wasChopin and he said you know,
there are some things that youcan challenge that will give you
(13:00):
an advantage.
So yes, that's my second.
One is Benjamin Sanders.
Cath (13:04):
I really like his book the Art of Possibility, and that is
something I drew on, a lot kindof writing my own book.
He's a very inspirationalcharacter.
So my second one is actuallygoing back to a real
inspirational character, a realclassic.
I think it's sort of one of theleading TED Talks of all time.
It is the incredible, sir KenRobinson, do Schools Kill
(13:25):
Creativity?
And he tells stories in such acompelling way.
And he just takes this step backto think about what is
education for, how have we nowconstructed it?
And he talks about how, if analien came to look at education,
sit and say, oh, what are youtrying to do?
You're trying to rank people,find out who's the best at
something.
Why are we hierarchical abouteducation?
(13:48):
Why aren't we unlocking whatevery child is capable of?
So, in a similar way toBenjamin Zander, in a way, he's
trying to explore humanpossibility and he realizes
that's a very diverse thing andwe don't all have to look the
same and this sort of muchbroader sense of what are we
capable of, and for us to getmore aware of our education
(14:08):
systems, but also our worksystems, which are stifling us,
constraining us.
Again, we have this questionabout how do we achieve higher
targets at work?
How do we become moreproductive?
The question is not byconstraining people, and yet
often the culture, the ways ofworking are doing that, and so I
just love this idea of seeingeveryone in terms of what are
(14:32):
they capable of, what creativeideas they have.
And, of course, children arefull of such incredible ways of
thinking that aren't stuck insilos and they ask the
impossible and they want to drawthe impossible.
And he tells this lovely storyof a little child who is drawing
something.
The teacher says what are youdrawing?
And he says, oh, I'm drawingGod.
(14:52):
And the teacher says, oh, butno one knows what God looks like
.
And he says, oh well, they willin a minute.
Just gorgeous, really againinspiring and tapping into that
sense of endless possibilitythat's within each of us, and
that, for me, is a really, yeah,really warming, optimistic view
that we need in this kind ofsometimes challenging world.
Colin (15:13):
It's brilliant, utterly inspiring.
It is the most popular.
I just checked it's the mostpopular 26 million.
Maybe more than that 78.3million views.
It's from 2006.
Still relevant today, yeah.
Unfortunately, that's what's soamazing it's still relevant
today.
Okay, my last one is actually afairly obscure one, by a guy
(15:37):
called Drew Dudley, who did aTED talk on everyday leadership
and, much like MargaretHeffernan, where she focuses on
the small common sense thingsthat you can do.
This was a 2010, I think,recorded in Toronto.
If anyone's seen it, drewDudley he's got this really big
hat on.
Yeah, just utterly memorable.
Everyday leadership.
(15:58):
The key thing that I took fromit he talks about the impact of
small acts, which he callslollipop moments, and he tells
this great story about how he'scollecting money for charity and
he's doing it at a universitywhere parents are dropping their
children off for the first time, and he could tell there was a
really nervous student gettingout of the car.
(16:19):
She really didn't want to goand so he went over and gave her
a lollipop because he was doingthe.
I think it was for cysticfibrosis that he was doing this
collection for.
He gave her a lollipop and hesaid to the parents look at that
, she's already taking candyfrom a stranger.
It kind of broke the ice andthen this other guy came over.
Anyway, long story short, thesetwo people that met on this
very first day ended up gettingmarried.
(16:40):
He got invited to the I'mspoiling the TED talk for you.
He tells it way better,obviously.
However, the point is and thelollipop moments is you don't
realize and this is the everydayleadership you don't realize
that the impact that you, yourbehavior, has on people at any
one time.
And I remember doing aninterview, I think it was last
(17:03):
year, and the interviewer saidto me something like what's one
thing that you're alwaysthinking about and obviously,
besides the family and all thesekinds of things, I said I'm
always thinking about what'sthat one interaction that I can
have today that might make adifference to the person that
I'm interacting with?
Because it would be very easyjust to think about yourself all
(17:24):
of the time, and it all comesback.
That answer comes back to DrewDudley's TED Talk on everyday
leadership is those smallmoments every day.
He also talked about the senseof satisfaction that he took
from it, not in a kind of hubriskind of way, but celebrating
the small win for yourself tosay today I did a really good
(17:46):
thing, not telling your mates Iwas brilliant today, but today
and that made him feel good.
So, yeah, everyday Leadershipby Drew Dudley would be my third
one Brilliant.
Cath (17:56):
It reminded me of a book actually that came out last year
by a fantastic executive coach,sarah Langslow, which is called
Do Sweat the Small Stuff, andit's making a lot of those
points as part of it.
Right, for my third one, I'mgoing into the sports world to
Valerie Condos-Field, who is anincredible gymnastic champion,
(18:19):
and it's a very moving talk.
It's called why Winning Doesn'tAlways Equal Success and it
came out in 2019.
And it came out.
It was very.
For me, it was just a kind ofmoment of reinforcing the belief
in the concept of the long win.
I'd been writing the book forthree years.
It was more or less finishedand I still felt it was really
(18:42):
heretical and dangerous andrisky to challenge winning.
It had to be anything otherthan good.
It's the only thing thatmatters.
And I heard her TED talk and Ithought, yeah, it's so obvious
that we've got things wrong andit just gave me that sort of
conviction.
I actually reached out to her.
She was very lovely, wrote me atestimonial, got really.
You had a lovely conversation.
(19:03):
But her talk in 2019 is allabout why winning doesn't always
equal success.
She's an incredibly successfulgymnastics coach in America in
terms of championships won, butshe actually talks about that
isn't success, you know, justwinning the trophy, but she
actually talks about that isn'tsuccess, you know, just winning
(19:24):
the trophy.
She talks about the crisis inwin at all costs, cultures that
are in our schools andbusinesses and politics and how,
you know, we honor the peopleat the top of the pyramid.
We applaud those who winchampionships or elections or
awards, but often they areactually leaving their
institutions, their professionsas damaged human beings.
Kids with straight A's they'releaving school damaged.
(19:49):
Athletes are leaving theirteams with medals, but they're
damaged emotionally, mentally,and the same in the
organizational world.
We've become so hyper focusedon the end result that the human
component of how we got theregets swept under the rug and so
does all the damage.
She tells some beautiful storiesof herself, how she started off
, sort of copying what shethought good coaching was, being
dogmatic dictator all the time,but realizing eventually that
(20:13):
actually that kind of producescompliant, good little soldiers,
good little gymnast, but itdoesn't develop what she calls
champions in life.
It doesn't enable people toreally you know again explore
what they're capable of be theperson, help them become the
person that they want to be.
And she tells a beautiful storyaround Caitlin O'Hashey, who's
someone who's had this, who hada gymnastics video that went
(20:35):
viral, you know, who arrived ather gym broken in body,
completely, you know, hatinggymnastics, supposedly on a sort
of scholarship, but saying, youknow, I don't want to be good
again.
And she was like my goodness,you know, chris, is how the hell
am I going to turn this aroundand how could somebody who's so
(20:56):
brilliant get to that point?
And you know, it's her journeyof kind of learning, that of
seeing the human, not thegymnast, and really challenging
her own ways of operating,listening to feedback, not just
seeing somebody as somebody whoscores points, but as somebody
who's learning and growing andfiguring stuff out.
So it's bringing that kind ofhuman piece back into our
(21:19):
definitions of success.
I'm very aligned with the longway and I quote from Ed and, as
I say, she, you know, kindlyendorsed the book.
But it's just a beautifulexample from someone who's very
eloquent, who's lived, you know,and explored this question of
what is success.
Colin (21:36):
So that would I mean, they're our favorite TED Talks.
If you've got a favorite TEDTalk maybe we haven't mentioned
it or haven't referred to it,please do drop us a line inside
out culture at gmailcom.
Uh, we, you know, we are alwayslooking for ideas.
We're always looking forinspiration.
Every, at the end of every show, we end with three things
something to do, something toget curious about, something to
uncover.
Uh, which I just captured here,Cath, as as we were going
(21:57):
through, I think, do look forinspiration everywhere.
I think if you can develop ordevote it's probably a better
word, devote, I don't know 30minutes a day to looking for a
little bit of inspiration it'soften hard to do, I know, but if
you can look for it and itdoesn't have to be a TED Talk,
it can just be in an interactionthat you witness.
Cath (22:17):
It can be a moment.
It can be a moment.
Yeah, it's not time bound butyeah, absolutely so.
Colin (22:22):
Something to do.
Look for inspiration everywhere.
Uh, get curious about theaction that you can take.
You know, Cath, I don't knowabout you, but sometimes I watch
a ted talk.
I think, gosh, how do I do that?
But there's usually one thingright, one thing that you can do
.
Cath (22:33):
You're like, okay, well, here's something that I can do,
even sharing, just gosh, thishas really struck me, it's
really resonated with me, and sosharing that can be a great way
of also helping that process.
Colin (22:45):
Well, that's the thing to uncover.
Is one idea worth sharing?
I think that's the tagline forTED Talks anyway.
Is ideas worth sharing.
Don't keep them to yourself.
If you found something worthsharing, don't keep it to
yourself.
You know, we just shared thesix TED Talks that we like, but
you know, if there's one thatreally inspires you, why not
share it with other people andsay no, you can't force them to
(23:05):
watch it, but you know, I foundthis really interesting.
I think you might too, but nowit makes me want to go and watch
more TED Talks.
Cath (23:12):
I know there's just so many ideas out there, but, yeah,
I think we often consumeslightly randomly, don't we?
Just whatever comes up on thephone, and so make a conscious
choice to I really want to watchthis today, or I'm going to
share this, you know, asksomebody else, because often
people have played around andgot a couple that they really
like.
So it's also a great sort ofconversation across the team.
Some people are very into them,some might never watch them.
(23:34):
People also.
Often, you know, it enables youto go in a different direction,
a non-work direction, someonewho's really into music or
really into sport, you know andthen they offer stories and
metaphors that, of course, applyacross the organizational world
too.
So it often opens our minds,ideas, possibilities, and I
think we need a bit more of thatin a world that often has too
(23:54):
many constraints.
Colin (23:54):
Yeah, and different people consume different types
of content.
You know, Cath and I, you know,write regularly.
Cath written for the Guardian.
I write a daily blog and peoplelike those short things or they
like the longer things.
I write a really long article.
That people like that, butmaybe not the short one.
People will like to watchvideos.
Some people like audio books,people like podcasts, like this.
(24:15):
Yeah, recognize that differentcontent can provide different
inspiration at different timesand, yeah, broaden your horizons
and see which one works bestfor you.
Great Thanks, very much.
Thanks so much, until next time.
Cath (24:28):
Thanks for listening to today's Inside Out Culture.
Colin (24:31):
Podcast.
Please remember to like,subscribe and, of course, share
with others who you think may beinterested.
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.