March 13, 2025 • 27 mins
In this episode of the Inside Out Culture podcast we talk through the things that vibrant cultures do, that others don’t. These are the things that ensure that the culture is not only a great one to work in, but that it continually evolves to meet the changing nature of work.
Specifically we talk about:
- Taking the time to agree your culture
- Why human connection is key
- The power of subcultures
- Why you have agency over the daily micro-experiences
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Join us as we reveal strategies to close the gap and craft a workplace where values are not just spoken, but lived and breathed, paving the way for a more authentic and engaging organisational culture.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colin (00:02):
Welcome to the Inside Out Culture Podcast, where we look
at insides of working cultureand provide ideas, insights and
actions for you to take on theoutside.
I'm Colin Ellis.
Cath (00:12):
And I'm Cath Bishop, and in each episode we'll examine a
different question or adifferent organization, and
we'll use case studies, researchand our own insights and
experiences to help you changethe way things get done in your
world.
Colin (00:27):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please like, subscribe and, ofcourse, let us know what you
think.
Cath (00:32):
Hi, welcome to another episode of the Inside Out
Culture Podcast, and this weekwe're going to look broadly at
the question of what is it thatgreat cultures do that bad
cultures don't?
So let's you know.
Again, we're thinking about howwe can help be really proactive
about culture to help us feelit's around us, it's real, we're
(00:55):
contributing to it all the time.
And what should we be lookingout for?
What should we be amplifying?
What are the things that greatcultures do?
That's what we're exploring,colin, and I know you've got
some experiences, stories,companies to talk about.
It's the good news, isn't it?
There is lots of stuff outthere to help us.
We can often feel we're lookingat the cultures where it goes
wrong and the crises and thereviews, but there's good stuff
(01:18):
happening out there and that'swhat we want to kind of
implement and amplify.
Colin (01:22):
Something we talk about all the time is the fact that
it's only bad culture storiesthat make it into the media.
Cath, it's never.
Here's an organization doingreally, really great things.
Cath (01:31):
People are thriving here Wow.
Colin (01:33):
Who'd have thought that was possible in the workplace.
Cath (01:35):
Here's the blueprint.
Colin (01:36):
Look at this, look what you can achieve.
But it's something that we getasked all of the time.
I mean it's interspersed withinour presentations anyway.
I know the work that you'vebeen doing around the long wind
for me around.
Detox your culture.
Here's how you avoid theconditions for toxic culture.
Here's all the great stuff thatyou can do, and people are
(01:59):
often surprised at just howstraightforward it can be.
I'm shying away from using theword easy, because obviously
nothing's really easy.
That's worthwhile, but it isrelatively straightforward to
achieve these things.
So we wanted to give you justkind of a snapshot of what those
things look like.
Obviously, it's impossible todo it in 25 minutes, but we'll
give it a crack anyway.
But I thought I'd start by justbasically reminding everyone
(02:20):
that you get the culture thatyou choose to build and I'll
come back to that at the endbecause when you put time,
thought, effort and money intogiving people agency to
proactively build the culturebased on not only some of the
issues that they see at thattime, but also building on the
good stuff that they do, thenyou generally get a great place
(02:44):
to work where people want tocontribute, they feel a sense of
ownership, they feel a sense ofbelonging.
They want to nurture itthemselves.
So you know, that's, that'swhere to start is that you know,
if you're really serious aboutculture, then you do have to put
time, thought, money and effortinto actually doing it.
And when you do that, youyou've kind of you've created
momentum that you know peoplefind it easy to get behind.
Cath (03:05):
Yeah, I always say we are all culture shapers and whether
you're doing it intentionally ornot, you're shaping the culture
around you.
So let's get a bit moreintentional about shaping it the
way we want it to be, the waythat works for us and for our
colleagues, and to take thatseriously.
It's also everyone's job, swekbeing a culture shaper, and I
wish we could perhaps make thata bit more explicit so that we
(03:27):
can all realize we have a lot ofautonomy here.
We don't have to wait to betold what the latest sort of
acronym values might be.
Actually, make sure you're kindof aware of what's important
for you, for your team.
Hopefully you're connectinginto the organization's values
and they mean something beyondthe poster on the wall, but it's
(03:47):
bringing them alive.
They're only as good as thelast set of behaviors, the last
meeting that we all turned up.
That's how we live the culture.
That's how we either went in adifferent direction from what's
on the wall or reinforced it andbrought it to life and gave it
meaning, and so I like to thinkof it in that very real way.
It's not we sit in a room andplan what the culture will be.
(04:07):
You're going to tell us how wedo add some definition into that
, and we must do that.
But this idea that a certainpart of our work time is kind of
shaping culture and certain isbonkers We've got to understand.
We're shaping it all the timeand therefore we need to be
aware of how we're shaping itfor ourselves, for others around
us, and to really be ambitiousabout that part of our role as
(04:28):
well, because it's such a keyarea.
That then enables us to do thetasks, the objectives, the other
stuff that's on our job spec aswell.
So where are you going to takeus?
Are you going to take us to abook, to a company, to a story?
Colin (04:41):
I'll start with some statistics, Cath.
First, because I want to useone of the statistics to take us
to something that organizationscan do immediately.
So some statistics.
A recent one from Deloitte is92% of CEOs said that they
recognize that culture is themost important thing.
They recognize it, and yet only16% of them say that their
(05:02):
culture is where it needs to beright now.
So there's this kind of gapbetween you know, kind of
intention and action.
And the second one that Iwanted to say is that only 3% of
people leaders, so managersfeel confident in building a
culture.
So this is the first thing thatyou can learn of what vibrant
cultures do, or what greatcultures do the bad ones don't
(05:32):
is they teach their managers howto build culture.
Now, I'm not talking about aleadership program for a special
few people.
That's fine.
You shouldn't lose that.
Obviously, there needs to be apathway for those high potential
people that you see as thefuture of the organization.
I'm talking about basicmanagement training and this is
very simple skills.
Give them the language to talkabout culture.
I did one of these at the startof the year.
Give them a language to talkabout culture so that they can
(05:56):
kind of spot where they areright now and understand where
they need to be.
Make sure you've got modulesaround things like setting
expectations, which is a skillin and of itself, providing
feedback, having courageousconversations, particularly
around behavior.
I think Cath mentioned it.
Behavior is often the thing thatundermines a culture, and when
(06:16):
we allow one person to behave ina specific way, what it does,
it undermines the safety withinthe culture and it erodes it for
everybody else.
But there's this assumptionthat when you reach a particular
position within the hierarchy,you automatically know what to
do to create a thrivingenvironment where people just
(06:38):
want to bring their best self towork.
I don't know what you've seen,kat, but I do a lot of these
kind of two-day programs where Iteach managers.
We call it a culture makersprogram.
It's how do we teach managersto build great culture, and then
there's measurement afterwards.
But for me that's a great startpoint is give managers the
skills to be able to talk aboutit and to actively build it.
Cath (06:58):
Yeah, it is.
It's built throughconversations, through
collaborative conversations,courageous conversations,
different conversations.
Sometimes they're areas we'renot used to talking about, so we
feel inexperienced, but I oftenuse the trio of mindset,
behaviors and relationships.
Those are our brilliant humanperformance tools and you know
we want to optimize the work wedo.
(07:19):
We've got all these challengingtargets, usually that our
organization's giving us, ourleaders are setting for us.
So let's optimize what we bringas humans, which is the way we
think and mindset, our attitudes, our beliefs, the way we behave
, the way we show up, the way wereact to stuff, the way we
connect with others, and therelationships, the interactions,
(07:40):
the conversations.
Those are our very human toolsthat help us then really go
about all of the tasks thatwe're set.
So thinking about how andleaning into that and
conversations are a huge part.
So often I find what I'm doingis just helping people have
conversations they haven't hadbefore, and that in itself
unlocks quite a lot of things.
(08:01):
I think one of the areas that'sreally important in culture is
we can't give you a template.
We can't say, here's yourvalues, live those.
It'd be a nonsense.
Or say, look, just tick thesethings off and you're done, and
then you go back to your tasks.
Yeah, it is a different way ofthinking to appreciate the
culture around us.
I'm reminded of that joke aboutthe goldfish in the bowl and one
(08:22):
of them says you know, asksabout the, you know what do you
think of the water?
And one says you know what youknow.
Asks about the you know what doyou think of the water?
And one says you know whatwater sort of thing like.
Are we even aware of theculture around us?
I don't think I told that verywell, but anyway we'll put a
version in the notes.
It was still funny.
Are we even noticing this stuff?
So that's the first thing.
Often also, we do.
You know, I get people just tonotice behaviours, just to
(08:43):
notice things that are going on.
They notice reactions, noticethe language that's used around
us and actually from that thenwe start to adjust, adapt,
change what we're doing and thathas an impact on others.
So there are so many kind oflovely ripples it's.
Are we really rippling the onesthat we want to be sort of
sending out into theorganization around us?
(09:03):
So the very simple framework Iuse often for setting around
this from the long win is aroundthe three Cs of clarity,
constant learning and connection.
And I find these take us out ofan automatic pilot mode of just
churning through tasks like amachine to clarifying what
matters.
What else matters, yeah, andthen we get to sort of well, it
actually matters how it feels inthe working environment, it
(09:24):
matters how we work, it mattershow we talk to each other.
So really clarifying how we dothings, not just what and when,
clarifying why we do things,then to really focus on this
learning, adapting, constantlygrowing piece, so that we're
constantly evolving the cultureit's not one stuck thing and, of
course, seeing therelationships, the connections,
as absolutely fundamental.
(09:46):
So I find those three thoughtprocesses, the connections, as
absolutely fundamental.
So I find those three thoughtprocesses it's not a template,
it's not a tick, tick, tick.
It's a means of getting backinto a mindset where we're
noticing and shaping culture ina really helpful way.
Colin (09:58):
Yeah, when I wrote Culture Fix in 2019, I was
really, really keen.
This was kind of very early on.
I'd been researching what wethen call teamwork since
probably about 2015, when Idecided I wanted to go out and
work for myself, and so theCulture Fix was.
This book that I had in mindfor a long time is what do the
great cultures do and what canother people copy?
(10:20):
What are some exercises theycan do?
Anyway, I won't paraphrase theentire book, but the six pillars
were vision and purpose.
That's the first pillar.
The second one was values.
Then there was personality andcommunication.
So how do we connect humans,exactly as Cath was just talking
about, and I pretty much saidthat was the most important one,
because that was the way intoany culture.
(10:41):
Then it was behavior,collaboration and innovation.
These were the six right, thesix things that everyone did.
But one of the things thatgreat cultures did and when I
did all of my research and Ihadn't really thought about it
in this way, even though, as amanager myself, I'd done it was
what great cultures do is theyrecognize that they can't have a
mono culture.
So Cath just alluded to this isyou can't say at a, let's say,
(11:06):
a senior leadership level.
This is our culture, and expecteverybody to do the same things
in exactly the same way Is thatgreat cultures are made up of
great subcultures, and so whatgreat cultures have is kind of a
cultural backbone, and that'svision, purpose and set of
values.
Right, and these things areconsistent throughout every team
, but the way that each teamoperationalizes those values can
(11:32):
be completely different.
So I had a conversation withsomeone at the end of the year
who I'm working with now andthey were like oh, we want to
create a one team culture.
I was like how many people inthe team?
Is it like 15, 20?
And they're like, oh, it's 250.
I was like, okay, let me justbreak you out of this idea of
one team.
Oh, it's 250.
I was like okay, let me justbreak you out of this idea of
one team, because you're the sumof your parts.
I think there's 14 teams.
(11:52):
I was like you're 14 teams, butwhat we want is a kind of one
backbone of which all of the 14kind of center around, and I
hadn't really thought about itin those terms before.
And so this is this is whereyou kind of give agency to each
team to design what the cultureneeds to be for them to achieve
(12:13):
what they need to achieve,aligned to vision, purpose,
values, whatever your backboneis.
So again, that's just buildingup of what Cath says.
There is that you know, greatcultures are a combination of
great subcultures.
Cath (12:26):
And I like the agency word that you use there.
So this is a very proactivespace.
It's a creative space.
Yeah, we're not going.
Oh, let me look up what thiscompany over here does, let's do
that.
You know, we're not even sayingacross yeah, those 14 teams,
let's all do one thing.
It's just, it's a nonsense, itwon't work.
It is for us to step into thatspace and say what do we need,
(12:50):
and to try it and to test it andadapt and explore.
So again, culture doesn't juststay the same.
We're shaping it with everyexperience and when we have a
new challenge come that 2025 isgoing to be throwing many new
challenges, I think, to all ofus then we adapt and grow and
deepen certain elements of ourculture, maybe even develop some
new elements as well.
(13:10):
I was lucky over Christmasactually to read, to get an
advanced copy of the book byKate Hayes called how we Win,
and Kate is an incrediblybrilliant progressive sports
psychologist and she works nowwith the Lionesses.
She was leading the Olympic andParalympic sports psychology
teams for many years.
I worked with her years ago andshe helped out with the Oxford
(13:32):
Cambridge boat race and she wasalso she's worked very closely
with Tom Daley for years.
So she's absolutely brilliant,One of these women behind the
scenes of some incredibleperformances, and she lays out
some very similar themes.
She has four building blocks tohelp teams create that
environment where she talksabout perform and flourish.
Sure, there are people who winand have a really difficult time
(13:55):
, but she's seen it with her owneyes.
You cannot sustain success likethat, and in fact it's even
harder nowadays to succeed, evenin the short term, because the
standard in order to succeed isso high.
You can't afford not to havethings with you, and she was
part of her.
And the sports psychologistlooked back after the Rio Games
and said look, the medal table'sgreat, but we're hearing lots
(14:17):
of stories that people arestruggling and suffering and we
don't think that's necessary.
Of course elite sport isn'teasy, but we don think this
level of of suffering isnecessary and in fact is
detrimental to performance.
So they set up this projectthrive with these dual ambitions
for as many as possible to helpevery paralympic olympic
athlete to perform and flourish.
(14:39):
And that's been, you know, ajourney, because we still see
too many athletes that arestruggling.
And you know different sports.
We've got sort of differentcultures that push that away.
But more and more that's comingthrough.
And her work the Lionesses isbrilliant most recently.
So her four building blocks arewho are we?
Yeah, it's the identity piece.
You talked about that.
(14:59):
What do we stand for, what areour strengths?
How do we play to those?
The second one is why are wehere?
The purpose piece Again, we'vetalked about that.
We've talked about purpose inquite a few episodes of
questions.
How do we play?
Yeah, because we have to definethat for ourselves.
We're not the same as theEngland team before us or the
work team or the marketing teamor the sales team.
(15:21):
Yeah, how do we play?
How are we going to go aboutthat and really then getting
those rules, those behaviors,those frameworks that you talked
about?
And then the last one is thatsense of can we really deliver
under pressure?
Have we got the skills to dothat?
Are we really able to havethose difficult conversations,
(15:41):
to make decisions, to challengeeach other and manage the kind
of pressure times when they comeon?
What are the skills we need todevelop in order to be ready for
that?
So it's a kind of lovely bookin this space that is just
adding to what we believe thatflourishing and performing are
interlinked.
Colin (15:59):
There's a great active case study that you can read
about right now, and it's theWashington Commanders.
So the Washington Commandershad a terrible, toxic culture.
I remember writing about itabout three years ago and they
appointed a new head coach, aguy by the name of Dan Quinn,
(16:19):
and Dan Quinn came in.
I think there was a speech thathe did that went viral I'm
pretty sure there was a video.
I vaguely remember that now andhe said it's going to take time
for us to rebuild the culture,but we're going to put the
emphasis on togetherness, oncollaboration.
They came up with a new slogan,the Commander Standard, which
(16:42):
was all about behavior andworking together, and he made
the point and this is anotherthing that great cultures do is
it's not enough to talk aboutwhat it takes to create a great
team.
It's not enough.
It's the start, but it's notenough.
It's one thing having a code,but it's a whole other thing to
(17:04):
write it down.
We're talking before.
We recorded this kind ofNetflix, made the writing down
as the standard in 2009 and 2017.
Before then, there was acompany called Valve who'd
written theirs down, buteveryone remembers the Netflix
culture deck and me and my teamwe still produce culture decks
for teams.
So, yes, we talk about it, yes,we write it down.
(17:27):
But then there's theaccountability piece.
Is it pointless writing it downif you're not going to hold
each other to this?
And now, what the Washingtoncommanders did is they didn't
allow any individual to bebigger than the team.
And again you'll hearorganizations talk about this
all the time no, no individualis bigger than the team.
And then they allow one personto become bigger than the team.
(17:48):
They don't challenge it or doanything about it, and that's it
.
The culture then graduallyerodes.
Cath mentioned at the top ofthe show everyone has an
influence on the culture, goodand bad, and it's true.
So writing it down is anotherthing that great cultures do.
But then holding each other toit.
Now, one of the things that Ithink Patty McCord wrote about
this in her book Powerful.
So Patty McCord, former chieftalent officer at Netflix, and
(18:11):
she said one of the things we doat Netflix is we don't tolerate
brilliant jerks.
It was either her or ReedHastings, the founder, that said
that we don't toleratebrilliant jerks, this sense that
you can be great at what you do, just don't be a dick.
Don't undermine the culture andthe safety of the culture for
everyone else, and what Netflixsaid.
They have a three-strike rule.
(18:32):
I'm not sure if they still haveit now, but basically, if you
compromised the culture threetimes, you were gone, you were
done, you were finished, youwere out.
And the same principle isapplied to the Washington
Commanders.
They have not allowed anybodyto compromise their commander
standard and consequently, theymade their first I think it was
their first playoff game for 33years and everyone was just like
(18:52):
it's a miracle.
Anybody who knows anythingabout culture.
It's not a miracle.
This is what great cultures do,and in the hands of Dan Quinn,
he has completely turned itaround.
Cath (19:02):
Yeah, but I think sport's an interesting space because we
don't have these things on thewall the living.
It is so real and if you are notliving it you're so undermining
it, it's so obvious you'reundermining it.
And I think it's more damagingto create a culture and then not
do it, because you create thisincongruence and everyone knows
you signed up something you'renot doing.
(19:23):
So what does that say aboutwhat you really stand for and
what your real values are?
So you know, we absolutely haveto lean into it and I'm finding
in my work actually that one ofthe ways in which I think
sometimes I can help most is bysort of coming and helping
observations, noticing things,realizing when we might actually
be not doing what we said,helping people to spot those
(19:45):
moments, because we've got intoa bit of a sort of blinkered
state sometimes at work, focusedon the task do, do, do, meeting
, meeting, meeting and then wedon't notice things.
We don't mean to undermine theculture and these things that we
agreed, because we agreed themin a room that was not where I'm
working.
You know I haven't quitetransferred it across, but that
transfer is critical and that'swhy I think it's important
(20:07):
sometimes to get, you knowindependent perspective to come,
you know a trusted friend, atrusted advisor, a trusted
culture coach to come and helpyou figure that out and notice
stuff, not in a judgmental way,in a purely learning way,
because I think that's often theyou know.
People say what skills do I needto be effective at leading
culture, shaping culture?
I just say it's noticing things, it's that mindfulness to
(20:31):
notice things in yourenvironment and think, oh, is
that actually helping us or arewe sort of now starting to cross
a line that's really going tocause us problems later?
And of course, if you look atthe sports world again, you
don't just only do culture whenyou're away on a way day.
Yeah, it is there, it is real,it's happening in the changing
rooms.
It's brutal, feedback is given,accountability happens,
(20:55):
otherwise, you know, in thatgame on Saturday it's all going
to fall apart under pressure.
So I think often you see thatmuch more sort of real tussling
with bringing culture alive.
It's not pretty, it's not easy,but it's lived.
It's part of what you do, it'spart of how you play and I think
that's one of the things I tryand bring in organizations that
do.
It's part of how you play and Ithink that's one of the things
I try and bring in organizationsthat sense of it's what you're
doing, not what you're saying.
(21:15):
It's you know, let's not justsee culture as something we only
discuss every three months orsomething.
No, no, let's actually reversethat and think about what's all
the culture we've shaped today.
What would we like to be doingtomorrow?
Colin (21:26):
It's that old adage of Rome wasn't built in a day, but
they were laying bricks everyhour.
That sense that culturescontinually evolve all of the
time and they're made up of aset of what I would call
micro-experiences.
Actually, Cath, when youmentioned that advisor, I
remember doing a session with aleadership team of a big retail
(21:48):
organization half a day sothey're taking half a day out of
their calendar and I rememberdoing.
I recorded them a little video.
Here's a little bit of pre-work, some things to think about.
I said but I want you to putyour out of office on, let
people know that you're notgoing to be there.
And no phones, right, nodistractions.
This is an open discussionabout the things.
It was based.
It was on some feedback thatthey'd received from the
(22:10):
engagement survey.
So I'm there.
Let's just say it started atnine.
I think it did start at nine,and at nine o'clock people are
still drifting into the room,and so the CEO eventually
introduced me.
It's a column in a book blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
Seven minutes past line, I waslike.
So I got up and I said my firstchallenge to you is why is this
starting at seven minutes pastnine?
There's crickets, just nothing.
(22:31):
I was like okay, just with theperson next to you, why is this?
Starting at seven minutes pastnine?
You could people look aroundgoing, what's this?
But again, it's straight awaymicro experiences.
We said nine, but it's sevenminutes past nine.
Why does it stop?
Anyway, they had thisdiscussion and it was like, oh
yeah, ill discipline andsomeone's transport was late,
(22:53):
poor risk management, all thesekinds of things.
Anyway, about 10 minutes intothe presentation the CFO we were
sat on the front row to my left.
There's like two rows of chairs.
There was about I don't know 12people in this.
He took his phone out.
It's like right there as I'mdelivering a speech or talking
about something, he took hisphone out.
So I just stopped.
I just stopped and put my handsin my pocket.
(23:14):
I remember they put my hands inthe pocket.
I was just looking at him andeveryone was kind of looking
around.
You could see people justmoving in their chairs, like
what's happening here?
And I just, and eventually helooked up.
It must've been about 20 of themost uncomfortable seconds and
I said is that something urgentthat you need to deal with?
Because if it is, if you canjust apologize to the room and
excuse yourself, and he was justlike oh, no, no, no, no, I'm
(23:37):
really sorry.
Now, obviously, had this been alarger group of people, there's
no way I would have beenembarrassed.
Cath (23:40):
Did you get invited back?
Colin (23:42):
I did.
I did.
What happened after that?
He put his phone in his pocket.
The CEO just laughed.
He CEO just laughed.
He's like.
He said honestly, put your handup in this room If you'd have
done that, if one of us pulledthe phone out in a meeting.
He's like no one and he's likeColin.
Do you just want to tell us thereason that you did that?
I was like culture is thebehavior that you choose to walk
(24:02):
past.
I said we set the tone.
We said no phone If we'd allhave said, yeah, we're going to
bring our phones check it that'syour prerogative, you can do
that but we agreed no phones IfI'd have allowed that.
What does it say about me, aswell as what does it say about
the culture?
And the CEO just said it's thelittle things sometimes that
(24:23):
make a big difference.
Cath (24:25):
Yeah, that's a huge thing in culture, isn't it?
It is absolutely the smallthings, the small steps.
So that's why you don't have tobe in a leadership role,
although you need to be awareyour little actions have an even
greater impact, magnifiedrippling through the
organization.
But it is the small things,just the way we react, interact,
(24:46):
welcome people into a meetingor make it feel very sterile,
welcome people into a meeting ormake it feel very sterile, and
yeah, it is really the tone wetake, all of these things that
are so important.
And actually, once you startnoticing it, it's also quite
easy.
At first it is a bit of a oh,let me just realize something,
but your brain's seeing it allthe time.
(25:06):
You've just sort of let itfilter it out, or taught it to
filter it out because it wasn'tthought to be important.
So there's a resetting of yourcultural filters.
If you like to start noticingstuff.
Once you do, then it's sort of,you know, you can get on a real
positive spiral around.
Oh, I can do this well, and ifI just tweak this little thing
that's completely within mypower to do, because it's my
meeting or it's even just how Ispeak in the meeting, then I
(25:29):
think you really feel thatagency to shape things.
That is really part of theempowerment that comes from
being positive, proactive aboutculture building.
Colin (25:39):
Okay.
So let's three things.
We end every episode, just areminder.
We end every episode with threethings for you to do to get
curious about, maybe to uncover.
So I think the first thing todo is just a reminder of what I
said at the start you get theculture that maybe to uncover.
So I think the first thing todo is just a reminder of what I
said at the start you get theculture that you choose to build
.
So the thing to do is take thetime to work with your team to
proactively build your culture.
(25:59):
Listen, it doesn't have to be awhole two-day workshop.
It can literally be half anhour over a cup of coffee,
agreeing the behaviors you'dlike to see from each other, how
you're going to work together,how you're going to use
technology.
Like to see from each other howare you going to work together,
how are you going to usetechnology, how are you going to
communicate, as Cath talkedabout?
You know that communication isabsolutely key, so that's the
first thing to do.
Cath (26:17):
And the second thing to get curious about where do we
want that culture to go?
So how are we going to bring italive and how are we going to
continually shape it?
So it's that you know, oncewe've got a clearer definition
of it, then it's all you know.
Once we've got a clearerdefinition of it, then it's all
about right.
You know how do we bring thatalive and constantly build that,
deepen that, explore where elsewe might want to take it.
(26:38):
So it's that let's be reallycurious about what that means in
real life, today, tomorrow, theday after.
Colin (26:45):
And then something to uncover is your contribution.
You know we ended there justtalking about the micro
experiences.
What can you do?
What's one thing that you cando to positively positively,
that's the important word hereimpact your culture so that
everybody sees that you're arole model for what you want to
become Great conversation,Fantastic Next time, Bye, Bye.
Cath (27:08):
Thanks for listening to today's Inside Out Culture.
Colin (27:11):
Podcast.
Please remember to like,subscribe and, of course, share
with others who you think may beinterested.
Welcome to the Inside Out Culture Podcast, where we look
at insides of working cultureand provide ideas, insights and
actions for you to take on theoutside.
I'm Colin Ellis.
Cath (00:12):
And I'm Cath Bishop, and in each episode we'll examine a
different question or adifferent organization, and
we'll use case studies, researchand our own insights and
experiences to help you changethe way things get done in your
world.
Colin (00:27):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please like, subscribe and, ofcourse, let us know what you
think.
Cath (00:32):
Hi, welcome to another episode of the Inside Out
Culture Podcast, and this weekwe're going to look broadly at
the question of what is it thatgreat cultures do that bad
cultures don't?
So let's you know.
Again, we're thinking about howwe can help be really proactive
about culture to help us feelit's around us, it's real, we're
(00:55):
contributing to it all the time.
And what should we be lookingout for?
What should we be amplifying?
What are the things that greatcultures do?
That's what we're exploring,colin, and I know you've got
some experiences, stories,companies to talk about.
It's the good news, isn't it?
There is lots of stuff outthere to help us.
We can often feel we're lookingat the cultures where it goes
wrong and the crises and thereviews, but there's good stuff
(01:18):
happening out there and that'swhat we want to kind of
implement and amplify.
Colin (01:22):
Something we talk about all the time is the fact that
it's only bad culture storiesthat make it into the media.
Cath, it's never.
Here's an organization doingreally, really great things.
Cath (01:31):
People are thriving here Wow.
Colin (01:33):
Who'd have thought that was possible in the workplace.
Cath (01:35):
Here's the blueprint.
Colin (01:36):
Look at this, look what you can achieve.
But it's something that we getasked all of the time.
I mean it's interspersed withinour presentations anyway.
I know the work that you'vebeen doing around the long wind
for me around.
Detox your culture.
Here's how you avoid theconditions for toxic culture.
Here's all the great stuff thatyou can do, and people are
(01:59):
often surprised at just howstraightforward it can be.
I'm shying away from using theword easy, because obviously
nothing's really easy.
That's worthwhile, but it isrelatively straightforward to
achieve these things.
So we wanted to give you justkind of a snapshot of what those
things look like.
Obviously, it's impossible todo it in 25 minutes, but we'll
give it a crack anyway.
But I thought I'd start by justbasically reminding everyone
(02:20):
that you get the culture thatyou choose to build and I'll
come back to that at the endbecause when you put time,
thought, effort and money intogiving people agency to
proactively build the culturebased on not only some of the
issues that they see at thattime, but also building on the
good stuff that they do, thenyou generally get a great place
(02:44):
to work where people want tocontribute, they feel a sense of
ownership, they feel a sense ofbelonging.
They want to nurture itthemselves.
So you know, that's, that'swhere to start is that you know,
if you're really serious aboutculture, then you do have to put
time, thought, money and effortinto actually doing it.
And when you do that, youyou've kind of you've created
momentum that you know peoplefind it easy to get behind.
Cath (03:05):
Yeah, I always say we are all culture shapers and whether
you're doing it intentionally ornot, you're shaping the culture
around you.
So let's get a bit moreintentional about shaping it the
way we want it to be, the waythat works for us and for our
colleagues, and to take thatseriously.
It's also everyone's job, swekbeing a culture shaper, and I
wish we could perhaps make thata bit more explicit so that we
(03:27):
can all realize we have a lot ofautonomy here.
We don't have to wait to betold what the latest sort of
acronym values might be.
Actually, make sure you're kindof aware of what's important
for you, for your team.
Hopefully you're connectinginto the organization's values
and they mean something beyondthe poster on the wall, but it's
(03:47):
bringing them alive.
They're only as good as thelast set of behaviors, the last
meeting that we all turned up.
That's how we live the culture.
That's how we either went in adifferent direction from what's
on the wall or reinforced it andbrought it to life and gave it
meaning, and so I like to thinkof it in that very real way.
It's not we sit in a room andplan what the culture will be.
(04:07):
You're going to tell us how wedo add some definition into that
, and we must do that.
But this idea that a certainpart of our work time is kind of
shaping culture and certain isbonkers We've got to understand.
We're shaping it all the timeand therefore we need to be
aware of how we're shaping itfor ourselves, for others around
us, and to really be ambitiousabout that part of our role as
(04:28):
well, because it's such a keyarea.
That then enables us to do thetasks, the objectives, the other
stuff that's on our job spec aswell.
So where are you going to takeus?
Are you going to take us to abook, to a company, to a story?
Colin (04:41):
I'll start with some statistics, Cath.
First, because I want to useone of the statistics to take us
to something that organizationscan do immediately.
So some statistics.
A recent one from Deloitte is92% of CEOs said that they
recognize that culture is themost important thing.
They recognize it, and yet only16% of them say that their
(05:02):
culture is where it needs to beright now.
So there's this kind of gapbetween you know, kind of
intention and action.
And the second one that Iwanted to say is that only 3% of
people leaders, so managersfeel confident in building a
culture.
So this is the first thing thatyou can learn of what vibrant
cultures do, or what greatcultures do the bad ones don't
(05:32):
is they teach their managers howto build culture.
Now, I'm not talking about aleadership program for a special
few people.
That's fine.
You shouldn't lose that.
Obviously, there needs to be apathway for those high potential
people that you see as thefuture of the organization.
I'm talking about basicmanagement training and this is
very simple skills.
Give them the language to talkabout culture.
I did one of these at the startof the year.
Give them a language to talkabout culture so that they can
(05:56):
kind of spot where they areright now and understand where
they need to be.
Make sure you've got modulesaround things like setting
expectations, which is a skillin and of itself, providing
feedback, having courageousconversations, particularly
around behavior.
I think Cath mentioned it.
Behavior is often the thing thatundermines a culture, and when
(06:16):
we allow one person to behave ina specific way, what it does,
it undermines the safety withinthe culture and it erodes it for
everybody else.
But there's this assumptionthat when you reach a particular
position within the hierarchy,you automatically know what to
do to create a thrivingenvironment where people just
(06:38):
want to bring their best self towork.
I don't know what you've seen,kat, but I do a lot of these
kind of two-day programs where Iteach managers.
We call it a culture makersprogram.
It's how do we teach managersto build great culture, and then
there's measurement afterwards.
But for me that's a great startpoint is give managers the
skills to be able to talk aboutit and to actively build it.
Cath (06:58):
Yeah, it is.
It's built throughconversations, through
collaborative conversations,courageous conversations,
different conversations.
Sometimes they're areas we'renot used to talking about, so we
feel inexperienced, but I oftenuse the trio of mindset,
behaviors and relationships.
Those are our brilliant humanperformance tools and you know
we want to optimize the work wedo.
(07:19):
We've got all these challengingtargets, usually that our
organization's giving us, ourleaders are setting for us.
So let's optimize what we bringas humans, which is the way we
think and mindset, our attitudes, our beliefs, the way we behave
, the way we show up, the way wereact to stuff, the way we
connect with others, and therelationships, the interactions,
(07:40):
the conversations.
Those are our very human toolsthat help us then really go
about all of the tasks thatwe're set.
So thinking about how andleaning into that and
conversations are a huge part.
So often I find what I'm doingis just helping people have
conversations they haven't hadbefore, and that in itself
unlocks quite a lot of things.
(08:01):
I think one of the areas that'sreally important in culture is
we can't give you a template.
We can't say, here's yourvalues, live those.
It'd be a nonsense.
Or say, look, just tick thesethings off and you're done, and
then you go back to your tasks.
Yeah, it is a different way ofthinking to appreciate the
culture around us.
I'm reminded of that joke aboutthe goldfish in the bowl and one
(08:22):
of them says you know, asksabout the, you know what do you
think of the water?
And one says you know what youknow.
Asks about the you know what doyou think of the water?
And one says you know whatwater sort of thing like.
Are we even aware of theculture around us?
I don't think I told that verywell, but anyway we'll put a
version in the notes.
It was still funny.
Are we even noticing this stuff?
So that's the first thing.
Often also, we do.
You know, I get people just tonotice behaviours, just to
(08:43):
notice things that are going on.
They notice reactions, noticethe language that's used around
us and actually from that thenwe start to adjust, adapt,
change what we're doing and thathas an impact on others.
So there are so many kind oflovely ripples it's.
Are we really rippling the onesthat we want to be sort of
sending out into theorganization around us?
(09:03):
So the very simple framework Iuse often for setting around
this from the long win is aroundthe three Cs of clarity,
constant learning and connection.
And I find these take us out ofan automatic pilot mode of just
churning through tasks like amachine to clarifying what
matters.
What else matters, yeah, andthen we get to sort of well, it
actually matters how it feels inthe working environment, it
(09:24):
matters how we work, it mattershow we talk to each other.
So really clarifying how we dothings, not just what and when,
clarifying why we do things,then to really focus on this
learning, adapting, constantlygrowing piece, so that we're
constantly evolving the cultureit's not one stuck thing and, of
course, seeing therelationships, the connections,
as absolutely fundamental.
(09:46):
So I find those three thoughtprocesses, the connections, as
absolutely fundamental.
So I find those three thoughtprocesses it's not a template,
it's not a tick, tick, tick.
It's a means of getting backinto a mindset where we're
noticing and shaping culture ina really helpful way.
Colin (09:58):
Yeah, when I wrote Culture Fix in 2019, I was
really, really keen.
This was kind of very early on.
I'd been researching what wethen call teamwork since
probably about 2015, when Idecided I wanted to go out and
work for myself, and so theCulture Fix was.
This book that I had in mindfor a long time is what do the
great cultures do and what canother people copy?
(10:20):
What are some exercises theycan do?
Anyway, I won't paraphrase theentire book, but the six pillars
were vision and purpose.
That's the first pillar.
The second one was values.
Then there was personality andcommunication.
So how do we connect humans,exactly as Cath was just talking
about, and I pretty much saidthat was the most important one,
because that was the way intoany culture.
(10:41):
Then it was behavior,collaboration and innovation.
These were the six right, thesix things that everyone did.
But one of the things thatgreat cultures did and when I
did all of my research and Ihadn't really thought about it
in this way, even though, as amanager myself, I'd done it was
what great cultures do is theyrecognize that they can't have a
mono culture.
So Cath just alluded to this isyou can't say at a, let's say,
(11:06):
a senior leadership level.
This is our culture, and expecteverybody to do the same things
in exactly the same way Is thatgreat cultures are made up of
great subcultures, and so whatgreat cultures have is kind of a
cultural backbone, and that'svision, purpose and set of
values.
Right, and these things areconsistent throughout every team
, but the way that each teamoperationalizes those values can
(11:32):
be completely different.
So I had a conversation withsomeone at the end of the year
who I'm working with now andthey were like oh, we want to
create a one team culture.
I was like how many people inthe team?
Is it like 15, 20?
And they're like, oh, it's 250.
I was like, okay, let me justbreak you out of this idea of
one team.
Oh, it's 250.
I was like okay, let me justbreak you out of this idea of
one team, because you're the sumof your parts.
I think there's 14 teams.
(11:52):
I was like you're 14 teams, butwhat we want is a kind of one
backbone of which all of the 14kind of center around, and I
hadn't really thought about itin those terms before.
And so this is this is whereyou kind of give agency to each
team to design what the cultureneeds to be for them to achieve
(12:13):
what they need to achieve,aligned to vision, purpose,
values, whatever your backboneis.
So again, that's just buildingup of what Cath says.
There is that you know, greatcultures are a combination of
great subcultures.
Cath (12:26):
And I like the agency word that you use there.
So this is a very proactivespace.
It's a creative space.
Yeah, we're not going.
Oh, let me look up what thiscompany over here does, let's do
that.
You know, we're not even sayingacross yeah, those 14 teams,
let's all do one thing.
It's just, it's a nonsense, itwon't work.
It is for us to step into thatspace and say what do we need,
(12:50):
and to try it and to test it andadapt and explore.
So again, culture doesn't juststay the same.
We're shaping it with everyexperience and when we have a
new challenge come that 2025 isgoing to be throwing many new
challenges, I think, to all ofus then we adapt and grow and
deepen certain elements of ourculture, maybe even develop some
new elements as well.
(13:10):
I was lucky over Christmasactually to read, to get an
advanced copy of the book byKate Hayes called how we Win,
and Kate is an incrediblybrilliant progressive sports
psychologist and she works nowwith the Lionesses.
She was leading the Olympic andParalympic sports psychology
teams for many years.
I worked with her years ago andshe helped out with the Oxford
(13:32):
Cambridge boat race and she wasalso she's worked very closely
with Tom Daley for years.
So she's absolutely brilliant,One of these women behind the
scenes of some incredibleperformances, and she lays out
some very similar themes.
She has four building blocks tohelp teams create that
environment where she talksabout perform and flourish.
Sure, there are people who winand have a really difficult time
(13:55):
, but she's seen it with her owneyes.
You cannot sustain success likethat, and in fact it's even
harder nowadays to succeed, evenin the short term, because the
standard in order to succeed isso high.
You can't afford not to havethings with you, and she was
part of her.
And the sports psychologistlooked back after the Rio Games
and said look, the medal table'sgreat, but we're hearing lots
(14:17):
of stories that people arestruggling and suffering and we
don't think that's necessary.
Of course elite sport isn'teasy, but we don think this
level of of suffering isnecessary and in fact is
detrimental to performance.
So they set up this projectthrive with these dual ambitions
for as many as possible to helpevery paralympic olympic
athlete to perform and flourish.
(14:39):
And that's been, you know, ajourney, because we still see
too many athletes that arestruggling.
And you know different sports.
We've got sort of differentcultures that push that away.
But more and more that's comingthrough.
And her work the Lionesses isbrilliant most recently.
So her four building blocks arewho are we?
Yeah, it's the identity piece.
You talked about that.
(14:59):
What do we stand for, what areour strengths?
How do we play to those?
The second one is why are wehere?
The purpose piece Again, we'vetalked about that.
We've talked about purpose inquite a few episodes of
questions.
How do we play?
Yeah, because we have to definethat for ourselves.
We're not the same as theEngland team before us or the
work team or the marketing teamor the sales team.
(15:21):
Yeah, how do we play?
How are we going to go aboutthat and really then getting
those rules, those behaviors,those frameworks that you talked
about?
And then the last one is thatsense of can we really deliver
under pressure?
Have we got the skills to dothat?
Are we really able to havethose difficult conversations,
(15:41):
to make decisions, to challengeeach other and manage the kind
of pressure times when they comeon?
What are the skills we need todevelop in order to be ready for
that?
So it's a kind of lovely bookin this space that is just
adding to what we believe thatflourishing and performing are
interlinked.
Colin (15:59):
There's a great active case study that you can read
about right now, and it's theWashington Commanders.
So the Washington Commandershad a terrible, toxic culture.
I remember writing about itabout three years ago and they
appointed a new head coach, aguy by the name of Dan Quinn,
(16:19):
and Dan Quinn came in.
I think there was a speech thathe did that went viral I'm
pretty sure there was a video.
I vaguely remember that now andhe said it's going to take time
for us to rebuild the culture,but we're going to put the
emphasis on togetherness, oncollaboration.
They came up with a new slogan,the Commander Standard, which
(16:42):
was all about behavior andworking together, and he made
the point and this is anotherthing that great cultures do is
it's not enough to talk aboutwhat it takes to create a great
team.
It's not enough.
It's the start, but it's notenough.
It's one thing having a code,but it's a whole other thing to
(17:04):
write it down.
We're talking before.
We recorded this kind ofNetflix, made the writing down
as the standard in 2009 and 2017.
Before then, there was acompany called Valve who'd
written theirs down, buteveryone remembers the Netflix
culture deck and me and my teamwe still produce culture decks
for teams.
So, yes, we talk about it, yes,we write it down.
(17:27):
But then there's theaccountability piece.
Is it pointless writing it downif you're not going to hold
each other to this?
And now, what the Washingtoncommanders did is they didn't
allow any individual to bebigger than the team.
And again you'll hearorganizations talk about this
all the time no, no individualis bigger than the team.
And then they allow one personto become bigger than the team.
(17:48):
They don't challenge it or doanything about it, and that's it
.
The culture then graduallyerodes.
Cath mentioned at the top ofthe show everyone has an
influence on the culture, goodand bad, and it's true.
So writing it down is anotherthing that great cultures do.
But then holding each other toit.
Now, one of the things that Ithink Patty McCord wrote about
this in her book Powerful.
So Patty McCord, former chieftalent officer at Netflix, and
(18:11):
she said one of the things we doat Netflix is we don't tolerate
brilliant jerks.
It was either her or ReedHastings, the founder, that said
that we don't toleratebrilliant jerks, this sense that
you can be great at what you do, just don't be a dick.
Don't undermine the culture andthe safety of the culture for
everyone else, and what Netflixsaid.
They have a three-strike rule.
(18:32):
I'm not sure if they still haveit now, but basically, if you
compromised the culture threetimes, you were gone, you were
done, you were finished, youwere out.
And the same principle isapplied to the Washington
Commanders.
They have not allowed anybodyto compromise their commander
standard and consequently, theymade their first I think it was
their first playoff game for 33years and everyone was just like
(18:52):
it's a miracle.
Anybody who knows anythingabout culture.
It's not a miracle.
This is what great cultures do,and in the hands of Dan Quinn,
he has completely turned itaround.
Cath (19:02):
Yeah, but I think sport's an interesting space because we
don't have these things on thewall the living.
It is so real and if you are notliving it you're so undermining
it, it's so obvious you'reundermining it.
And I think it's more damagingto create a culture and then not
do it, because you create thisincongruence and everyone knows
you signed up something you'renot doing.
(19:23):
So what does that say aboutwhat you really stand for and
what your real values are?
So you know, we absolutely haveto lean into it and I'm finding
in my work actually that one ofthe ways in which I think
sometimes I can help most is bysort of coming and helping
observations, noticing things,realizing when we might actually
be not doing what we said,helping people to spot those
(19:45):
moments, because we've got intoa bit of a sort of blinkered
state sometimes at work, focusedon the task do, do, do, meeting
, meeting, meeting and then wedon't notice things.
We don't mean to undermine theculture and these things that we
agreed, because we agreed themin a room that was not where I'm
working.
You know I haven't quitetransferred it across, but that
transfer is critical and that'swhy I think it's important
(20:07):
sometimes to get, you knowindependent perspective to come,
you know a trusted friend, atrusted advisor, a trusted
culture coach to come and helpyou figure that out and notice
stuff, not in a judgmental way,in a purely learning way,
because I think that's often theyou know.
People say what skills do I needto be effective at leading
culture, shaping culture?
I just say it's noticing things, it's that mindfulness to
(20:31):
notice things in yourenvironment and think, oh, is
that actually helping us or arewe sort of now starting to cross
a line that's really going tocause us problems later?
And of course, if you look atthe sports world again, you
don't just only do culture whenyou're away on a way day.
Yeah, it is there, it is real,it's happening in the changing
rooms.
It's brutal, feedback is given,accountability happens,
(20:55):
otherwise, you know, in thatgame on Saturday it's all going
to fall apart under pressure.
So I think often you see thatmuch more sort of real tussling
with bringing culture alive.
It's not pretty, it's not easy,but it's lived.
It's part of what you do, it'spart of how you play and I think
that's one of the things I tryand bring in organizations that
do.
It's part of how you play and Ithink that's one of the things
I try and bring in organizationsthat sense of it's what you're
doing, not what you're saying.
(21:15):
It's you know, let's not justsee culture as something we only
discuss every three months orsomething.
No, no, let's actually reversethat and think about what's all
the culture we've shaped today.
What would we like to be doingtomorrow?
Colin (21:26):
It's that old adage of Rome wasn't built in a day, but
they were laying bricks everyhour.
That sense that culturescontinually evolve all of the
time and they're made up of aset of what I would call
micro-experiences.
Actually, Cath, when youmentioned that advisor, I
remember doing a session with aleadership team of a big retail
(21:48):
organization half a day sothey're taking half a day out of
their calendar and I rememberdoing.
I recorded them a little video.
Here's a little bit of pre-work, some things to think about.
I said but I want you to putyour out of office on, let
people know that you're notgoing to be there.
And no phones, right, nodistractions.
This is an open discussionabout the things.
It was based.
It was on some feedback thatthey'd received from the
(22:10):
engagement survey.
So I'm there.
Let's just say it started atnine.
I think it did start at nine,and at nine o'clock people are
still drifting into the room,and so the CEO eventually
introduced me.
It's a column in a book blah,blah, blah, blah, blah.
Seven minutes past line, I waslike.
So I got up and I said my firstchallenge to you is why is this
starting at seven minutes pastnine?
There's crickets, just nothing.
(22:31):
I was like okay, just with theperson next to you, why is this?
Starting at seven minutes pastnine?
You could people look aroundgoing, what's this?
But again, it's straight awaymicro experiences.
We said nine, but it's sevenminutes past nine.
Why does it stop?
Anyway, they had thisdiscussion and it was like, oh
yeah, ill discipline andsomeone's transport was late,
(22:53):
poor risk management, all thesekinds of things.
Anyway, about 10 minutes intothe presentation the CFO we were
sat on the front row to my left.
There's like two rows of chairs.
There was about I don't know 12people in this.
He took his phone out.
It's like right there as I'mdelivering a speech or talking
about something, he took hisphone out.
So I just stopped.
I just stopped and put my handsin my pocket.
(23:14):
I remember they put my hands inthe pocket.
I was just looking at him andeveryone was kind of looking
around.
You could see people justmoving in their chairs, like
what's happening here?
And I just, and eventually helooked up.
It must've been about 20 of themost uncomfortable seconds and
I said is that something urgentthat you need to deal with?
Because if it is, if you canjust apologize to the room and
excuse yourself, and he was justlike oh, no, no, no, no, I'm
(23:37):
really sorry.
Now, obviously, had this been alarger group of people, there's
no way I would have beenembarrassed.
Cath (23:40):
Did you get invited back?
Colin (23:42):
I did.
I did.
What happened after that?
He put his phone in his pocket.
The CEO just laughed.
He CEO just laughed.
He's like.
He said honestly, put your handup in this room If you'd have
done that, if one of us pulledthe phone out in a meeting.
He's like no one and he's likeColin.
Do you just want to tell us thereason that you did that?
I was like culture is thebehavior that you choose to walk
(24:02):
past.
I said we set the tone.
We said no phone If we'd allhave said, yeah, we're going to
bring our phones check it that'syour prerogative, you can do
that but we agreed no phones IfI'd have allowed that.
What does it say about me, aswell as what does it say about
the culture?
And the CEO just said it's thelittle things sometimes that
(24:23):
make a big difference.
Cath (24:25):
Yeah, that's a huge thing in culture, isn't it?
It is absolutely the smallthings, the small steps.
So that's why you don't have tobe in a leadership role,
although you need to be awareyour little actions have an even
greater impact, magnifiedrippling through the
organization.
But it is the small things,just the way we react, interact,
(24:46):
welcome people into a meetingor make it feel very sterile,
welcome people into a meeting ormake it feel very sterile, and
yeah, it is really the tone wetake, all of these things that
are so important.
And actually, once you startnoticing it, it's also quite
easy.
At first it is a bit of a oh,let me just realize something,
but your brain's seeing it allthe time.
(25:06):
You've just sort of let itfilter it out, or taught it to
filter it out because it wasn'tthought to be important.
So there's a resetting of yourcultural filters.
If you like to start noticingstuff.
Once you do, then it's sort of,you know, you can get on a real
positive spiral around.
Oh, I can do this well, and ifI just tweak this little thing
that's completely within mypower to do, because it's my
meeting or it's even just how Ispeak in the meeting, then I
(25:29):
think you really feel thatagency to shape things.
That is really part of theempowerment that comes from
being positive, proactive aboutculture building.
Colin (25:39):
Okay.
So let's three things.
We end every episode, just areminder.
We end every episode with threethings for you to do to get
curious about, maybe to uncover.
So I think the first thing todo is just a reminder of what I
said at the start you get theculture that maybe to uncover.
So I think the first thing todo is just a reminder of what I
said at the start you get theculture that you choose to build
.
So the thing to do is take thetime to work with your team to
proactively build your culture.
(25:59):
Listen, it doesn't have to be awhole two-day workshop.
It can literally be half anhour over a cup of coffee,
agreeing the behaviors you'dlike to see from each other, how
you're going to work together,how you're going to use
technology.
Like to see from each other howare you going to work together,
how are you going to usetechnology, how are you going to
communicate, as Cath talkedabout?
You know that communication isabsolutely key, so that's the
first thing to do.
Cath (26:17):
And the second thing to get curious about where do we
want that culture to go?
So how are we going to bring italive and how are we going to
continually shape it?
So it's that you know, oncewe've got a clearer definition
of it, then it's all you know.
Once we've got a clearerdefinition of it, then it's all
about right.
You know how do we bring thatalive and constantly build that,
deepen that, explore where elsewe might want to take it.
(26:38):
So it's that let's be reallycurious about what that means in
real life, today, tomorrow, theday after.
Colin (26:45):
And then something to uncover is your contribution.
You know we ended there justtalking about the micro
experiences.
What can you do?
What's one thing that you cando to positively positively,
that's the important word hereimpact your culture so that
everybody sees that you're arole model for what you want to
become Great conversation,Fantastic Next time, Bye, Bye.
Cath (27:08):
Thanks for listening to today's Inside Out Culture.
Colin (27:11):
Podcast.
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