June 27, 2024 • 28 mins
The ability to provide honest, in-the-moment feedback to each other is a hallmark of great team and organisation cultures, yet many in the corporate world struggle to do this once a year!
On this week’s episode we talk about why feedback is important and also provide some tips on how you and your teams can do it well.
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Join us as we reveal strategies to close the gap and craft a workplace where values are not just spoken, but lived and breathed, paving the way for a more authentic and engaging organisational culture.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colin (00:02):
Welcome to the Inside Out Culture Podcast, where we look
at insides of working cultureand provide ideas, insights and
actions for you to take on theoutside.
I'm Colin Ellis and I'm Cath.
Cath (00:13):
Bishop, and in each episode we'll examine a
different question or adifferent organization, and
we'll use case studies, researchand our own insights and
experiences to help you changethe way things get done in your
world.
Colin (00:27):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please like, subscribe and, ofcourse, let us know what you
think.
Hello everybody, welcome toanother episode of the Inside
Out Culture podcast, and todaywe are talking about feedback.
Cath (00:42):
So feedback is one of those topics that we get a lot
of questions about.
It's definitely up there when Ido talks, because I often
mention feedback, particularlywhen I'm talking about Olympic
environments.
It's one of those worlds where,oh everybody finds feedback
difficult, so I find it reallyfascinating.
I think it comes up a lot inyour world too.
Colin (01:01):
Yeah, it does, Cath, it does.
But I feel like we should startwith sports, and particularly
with your experience, Because Ithink and correct me if I'm
wrong but I think sport doesfeedback really really well.
Is that fair?
Cath (01:16):
Yeah, I agree, it feels so natural, it feels so obvious to
do feedback in a sportsenvironment.
To do feedback in a sportsenvironment the idea that you
would do a training session,play a match, do a rowing race
and then not debrief itafterwards and say, what was
good, what do we want to dobetter next time the idea it
(01:40):
just would be incomplete.
It's such a part of the cultureat all levels and it feels so
easy.
And I always found that such acontrast then when I came into
the civil service, when I wasworking as a diplomat, when I've
gone into organizations wherepeople struggle and it's so
difficult and it feels socounter, so uncomfortable to do,
and so I think this is onespace where there is really a
(02:00):
lot to learn from the rowingworld or from the sports world
more generally.
It's something that we talkabout.
A lot to learn from the rowingworld and or from the sports
world more generally.
It's something that we talkabout a lot, and in the book
Will it Make the Boat Go Faster,which my rowing friend Ben
Hunt-Davis wrote with HarrietBeveridge and he has a company
of that name they talk a lotabout feedback there and I think
(02:21):
one of the really clear factorsin that sports environment is
that from the start, it's partof what you do, so it doesn't
matter whether you're a noviceand it doesn't matter whether
you're really really good ormake loads of mistakes.
Everybody gets feedback, seeksfeedback, gives feedback, is
asked for feedback.
So it just is something thatbecomes quite natural.
(02:44):
And in that lovely question,will it make the boat go faster?
It's sort of known to beencapsulating what we were
trying to do each day.
It's make improvements, it'sfind ways for us to go faster in
order to win a gold medal.
But the question we asked eachday wasn't will this help us win
a gold medal?
Because that's quite set a longway in the future.
It's out of our control.
(03:06):
Most people in that environmentthe equipment manager, the
nutritionist, the coach they'llnever win a gold medal, but what
we're all in the business of ismaking boats go faster.
And because we all knew that,we all connected with that
mission, it then becomes easierto give feedback.
So I think one of the criticalthings is are you all signed up
to a shared mission which is initself got learning, which has
(03:31):
got learning at the heart of it?
Because that is a reallyimportant precondition.
We were all there to learnevery day new ways in which we
could make boats go faster, andthat was the case when I learned
as a student, and that was thecase when I learned as an
Olympian slightly more intense,slightly more focused.
But it's part of success, it'spart of what you do, it's part
(03:52):
of just the DNA of that worldand that's perhaps what isn't
there in the organizationalworld so strongly.
Colin (04:00):
Yeah, I always think with feedback that high performers
want it and low performers needit.
And yet, in the kind ofcorporate world that I worked in
, I can only recall one companywhere it was part of the culture
to provide immediate feedback,certainly for my teams, even in
government, it's something thatI did.
(04:20):
You know we had these regularfeedback sessions, but more
often than not, Cath, what wouldhappen is and you'll have seen
this in the civil service aswell is this wait, wait, wait
till the end of six months, tillthe end of 12 months, to
actually provide feedback, andoften that was part of a cycle
of a performance managementreview which nobody seemed to
want to do anyway.
(04:41):
It seemed to be a bit of aform-filling chore, when the
reality is, you know, as youjust made the point is, feedback
is absolutely crucial, and it'scrucial in the moment in order
to keep performance where itneeds to be, such that you can
maintain that forward momentum.
I think that, you know, for me,feedback has become, certainly
(05:06):
in the corporate world, feedbackhas become part of a
performance management processrather than a necessary skill
required to maintain high levelsof motivation such that goals
can be achieved.
Cath (05:18):
Yeah.
So I definitely agree thatappraisals have killed feedback,
killed it dead, have put thefear of God into so many people
and, as you say, there's a delaybecause the feedback is stored
up.
And again, this is exactly whatI found.
I was waiting for feedback whenI joined the civil service.
(05:39):
I was like, where is thefeedback?
I'm asking for it?
No one's really giving it.
And then, oh, oh, and suddenlythey're giving it this afternoon
about things I've forgottenabout.
It feels really awkward.
There's a slight sort ofemotional overlay or underlay to
it and it slightly feels itfeels a little bit personal.
I feel it's been presented as asort of critique of me, rather
(06:00):
than is this you know, these arethe things that would help you
become an even better civilservant or diplomat, in my case.
So, going back to that, will itmake the boat go faster?
This is about you being an evenbetter rower.
Great, this is why you're notgood enough, or this is the
stuff that we're judging youwith.
(06:20):
And that's where, again, itgoes wrong, because then, of
course, we feel very unsafe, wefeel very threatened, and the
moment we feel threatened, westop listening, we stop being
able to really take it on boardand have a relaxed conversation
where we can learn.
Yeah, everybody's defenses goup and we start justifying
things that are usually too farin the past at that point for
(06:41):
anyone to quite know the fullstory.
So appraisals have definitelykilled feedback and this sense
of letting them become personal.
It's not a judgment on yourvalue as a human being.
This is all about and it'simportant they're quite future
focused how we become evenbetter, whether it's our first
day at work or whether we're theCEO.
It's about how we become bettertomorrow.
(07:03):
But that only works if you havethat learning mindset in the
culture.
That we're here to get bettereach day and again, I think
that's one of the differences isactually a humility in a
performance in sportsenvironment that we're all
trying to get better and we'reaiming to be better than anyone
in the world.
I mean, that's not easy.
We're not going to do thatunless we're working hard every
day to improve.
(07:24):
Not easy.
We're not going to do thatunless we're working hard every
day to improve, where somehow, Ithink in the corporate world,
we stop thinking about improvingand are trying to prove
ourselves.
I'm trying to prove I'm the best.
I'm trying to prove I can do myjob, and that again then means
we're not open to learning.
We're not seeing that and wesee it as well.
Maybe I'm not doing my job wellenough I can't do my job.
We get into that fixed mindsetthinking.
(07:45):
So I think you know it gets toopersonal, then it doesn't work,
if it's just not in the moment.
But, as you say, those are twofactors that are really
important to set up feedback.
Well, what other factors do youthink help us?
Colin (07:58):
Well, I think for me, one of the biggest issues and I
recognised quite a few years agois that managers aren't very
good at setting expectations, orcoaches aren't very good at
setting expectations,particularly around behavior,
particularly around performance,and what that then does is that
feedback almost feels unnatural, it doesn't feel like it's
(08:22):
connected to anything, and Ithink that this is often why
people take feedback personallyis there hasn't been enough work
done at the start to set reallyclear expectations about what's
required in terms ofperformance and behavior, so
that when feedback is provided,it almost feels like you're you
know.
The person almost feelsattacked, like why are you
telling me this?
(08:42):
And so you know.
I think it's one of the thingsthat organizations should seek
to correct.
You know, I'm doing a programnext week and it's a core part
of the program and these managerskills is well, how do you set
expectations?
I think it's one of thoseskills that's assumed when
there's a real process to set inexpectations.
If you want to be able to givefeedback in the right way and if
(09:04):
you want it to be received inthe right way, then people have
got to be crystal clear aboutwell, what do you need from me?
When do you need it by?
Who do I need to work with interms of my behavior?
What do I have latitude overyou know, or agency over you
know?
What's the expectation of me inpresenting the information back
?
And these sound like all verybasic things, Cath, but if you
(09:26):
sit down with anyone and say,okay, well, when was the last
time someone set expectationwith you in a really structured
way, you know, people say, well,I got an email telling me what
to do and it's like, well,that's not.
It really you know.
Expectation is best set face toface, because then I can give
you feedback face to face, tosay, hey, you know that thing,
that you know that thing that wetalked about on Monday, and I
(09:46):
said this is going to be done byWednesday and you need to check
in with these people.
Where are you up to?
I haven't started yet.
Hey, well, listen, what we saidwas and I think it's very
cyclical feedback, but too oftenit feels like a gotcha moment
and I think it was MihalyCsikszentmihalyi, in his book
Flow, who talked about feedback,and he said almost any kind of
(10:09):
feedback can.
Then, paraphrasing it almost anykind of feedback can be
enjoyable, providing that it'slogically related to the goals
and the expectations that wereset around that, and I think
this is why people often have aproblem with feedback.
It feels disconnected, or elsesomeone's telling them to be
(10:30):
positive about something.
The feedback is oh, you need tobook your ideas, oh, you just
need to be positive.
Thank God, you told me thatI've been negative for 20 years.
I just need someone to tell meto be positive.
So I think, when it comes tofeedback, we have to set, set
the environment up in the rightway, so that people want the
feedback and it's done in alogical way, rather than it feel
(10:53):
like a well, why are youtelling me this now?
Cath (10:55):
kind of approach yeah, and I think you know that reminds
me about the importance of rolemodeling.
That.
So, again, if you're the linemanager or a leader, to be out
there seeking feedback is reallyimportant.
For me this is one of thereally helpful not tricks but we
often get sort of sucked intogiving feedback, receiving
(11:18):
feedback, how I give it, how Ireceive it, and we can
definitely develop our skillsand we should constantly develop
our skills and interestingly,we work really hard at that in
the learning environment.
Our psychologist, our coach,would help us to get better at
giving each other feedback,because it's tricky, we don't
want to piss each other off butwe also want to make sure we're
really extracting the feedback,because in that ways to get
(11:38):
faster.
But one of the ways to sort ofget out of that stickiness is
for us to be proactive aboutseeking feedback.
And in fact, when they wiredpeople up, the neuroscientists
and wired our brains up, youknow, when people sort of came
up and said I've got feedbackfor you, colin, immediately the
brain registers a threat.
Often in our organisations,partly because of this wider
(12:01):
environment where you know wefeel actually I don't know that
you've got my best interests andare really caring for me, and
so at that point, because you'rejust not listening as much,
it's really difficult for you totake it on board.
It also means I might come withfeedback to you.
I don't even know if it'ssomething you're aware of or
working on.
(12:22):
Potentially I come at a timewhen you might be busy or tired
or distracted or dealing withsomething else, and so that
whole scenario is quite tricky.
For it to go out Well, it needsa lot of preparation, whereas
actually, if you come seekingfeedback from me, you reverse
all those dynamics becauseyou're in control of the process
.
You're coming to ask aboutsomething you're interested in,
(12:42):
you've identified as important.
You want to get better in thisarea, yeah, so you're driving
that process, you're owning yourown learning and I feel at ease
because I'm no longer worriedabout are you even thinking
about developing in this area ifwe haven't had a previous
conversation or clarified it.
So you know and I feel valuedbecause you're asking me for my
opinion.
So seeking feedback is reallyimportant and to ask people who
(13:06):
do you want feedback from?
Who are you going to go and getfeedback from this year or this
next month or during thisproject?
And I think that's a reallyhelpful trick to try and help us
get out of this threat statewaiting for it to be delivered.
And I'm going to do it.
I'm going to listen, I'm goingto take it on board without
getting emotional or withoutgetting defensive into.
(13:28):
No, I'm going to go and findfeedback Because you know what?
There is so much usefulinformation sitting in our
organizations.
There is no need to go oncourses.
There are people in yourorganizations with all kinds of
gems that you could unlock andnearly always I want to say
always people will want to helpyou and want to share their
views and their advice and theirexpertise.
(13:49):
They may just say I can't do itnow, come back at another time,
but 99.9% of the time they wantto.
They feel valued that you'reasking for their view.
So start getting better atseeking feedback and setting
yourself some goals around thatand thinking this week I'm going
to get some feedback here.
I'm going to ask you before Igo in to do a talk or before I
go in to chair this meeting.
(14:10):
I'll say to you I'm reallyworking on this today.
I'm really working on, you know, making sure we stay to time
and but everyone has a voice andI'd like some feedback on that.
So then you're ready andlooking and helping and know I
want to work on that andafterwards we can have that
conversation.
So that dynamic of switchingmuch more to seeking feedback is
(14:31):
for me something that canreally help us unlock it.
And again, in that rich feedbackenvironment in the sports world
where people are giving it toyou all the time, we still asked
a lot.
We were hungry for it.
We're seeking out what else isthere that I could work on?
Or there's another athlete herewho's got some experience
that's similar to mine.
What else could I learn fromthem?
(14:51):
I came into sport really lateso I looked outside of rowing
other athletes who'd come tosport late in life.
What could I learn from them onthe sort of psychology side?
So it's really getting intothat proactive mode that can get
rid of a lot of the threat andthe stress and the waiting and
the delaying, unlock thelearning.
Colin (15:11):
I got into the process, probably in my early thirties,
of asking what's one thing.
So I had very specific what'sone thing you know you can tell
me about the way that I did this, what's one thing that you
would share with me about someknowledge that you feel that I
would need.
And then I added that to myteam meeting agendas, where we
(15:34):
gave permission for anybody toask for any feedback on anything
.
So it was called what's onething and we added it to the
bottom of the agenda.
In the beginning, Cath, when Ifirst introduced these things,
it is people feel felt reallyreticent to ask for feedback.
Is that something that you'vecaught?
And again, it doesn't.
I don't think it really happensin the in the sporting world as
(15:56):
much.
Do you think there's like ablock that we have?
It's really, it's reallyinteresting.
I didn't know about theneuroscience that really shows
how the brain reacts when itcomes to feedback.
Again, I'm just interested inyour experience from a sports,
sports perspective.
I don't get the sense thatpeople are like actually I don't
want that feedback right now,Whereas sometimes I feel like in
(16:17):
the corporate world that is thecase.
People are like listen, I justwant to come here, do my job go
home.
I don't want to get anyfeedback on whether I'm doing it
well or not.
I'm just wondering why that is.
Cath (16:27):
I think it comes back to this inherent sense of are you
here to learn and get better, orare you here to show us how
good you are?
And you know, we come into theworking world proving how good
we are and I can do the jobbetter than anyone else, almost
and I think we see some of thatbehavior displayed and therefore
it just isn't underpinningeverything we do.
(16:48):
That language, you know, isabout have we got it right or
wrong?
We don't talk about gettingstuff right or wrong, we just
talk about always getting better, and so I think things are
framed too much in that it'sright, it's wrong and therefore
you as a person, you're right,you're wrong rather than this
language of how are we going todo this even better.
So, when we do a great pitch,that's great.
(17:09):
What are the stuff we could doeven better?
And when we do a poor pitch,it's the same conversation.
What are the things we can dothat help us to be even better?
And that reviewing that comeswith feedback is something,
again in sport we do, becauseactually the race unless it's
the last race of your entirecareer or life it's basically
fulfilling the main purpose ofhelping you learn ways to go
(17:32):
faster in the race that follows.
And so, even when I win, I wantfeedback on the things I
haven't done so well and thethings I've done well, that I
can continue.
And when I lose, do you knowwhat I want?
Exactly the same, I wantfeedback on the stuff that I
need to improve and the things Ihaven't done so well, and so
it's having this sense ofconstant learning, constant
(17:52):
improvement, that we will alwaysask that question.
It's also framed in a sort ofconstant improvement is mastery.
We want to get better, whereasI think sometimes in the
workplace there is quite aculture that I'm trying to show
I know it all or I'm the best inmy field, somehow.
So I really think it's aboutswitching into more of a
learning mindset.
If you're in a learning mindset, it's the most natural thing in
(18:15):
the world to receive feedback.
But if you're not, if you'resomehow and it comes in the
difference between gross mindsetthinking and fixed mindset
thinking and a gross mindsetagain, I want feedback because
I'm here to learn and that'swhat I'm open to.
But in the fixed mindset, I'mafraid of feedback because it's
criticism.
(18:35):
It's telling me I'm not goodenough and I'm here to get 10
out of 10.
The growth mindset is going.
I'm just looking to get better.
So I really think it comes downto whether learning is embedded
or not, and I think thatsometimes organizations talk
about a learning culture but itisn't there, and you can see it
very quickly when you see aboutthe problems they might have
with feedback.
(18:55):
Well, clearly it's not alearning culture if people
aren't comfortable havingfeedback conversations and
they're rare and they don'thappen very often and we haven't
built up the skills.
Well, that's a really big signthat this is not a learning
culture.
And if it's not a learningculture, it is usually because
other people, the leaders inthat organization, are signaling
that this is about gettingthings right, that we don't want
(19:16):
to be looking.
You know, I don't want someoneto tell me I can do a better job
.
I want to show I've got theanswers, and I think that kind
of heroic model of leadershipand management that still exists
quite a lot in organizations is, you know, really kills off
feedback as well, and that'sstill very dominant in
organizations yeah is netflix'sculture is is much talked about
(19:38):
and much written about.
Colin (19:39):
Uh, reed hastings in his book in his book no rules rules
talks about feedback and thefact that they have a no holds
barred approach to feedback,which I kind of really like he
said again I'm paraphrasing hesaid it's tantamount to being
disloyal to the company if youwithhold feedback or you
disagree.
You have feedback that could behelpful.
(20:01):
But I think, just to echo yourpoint there, what they've done
there is really set up theculture to say we're a culture
that really values feedback.
As you come into theorganization it's something that
you can expect.
There's an employee listeningto a company called Culture Amp.
Culture Amp are based here inMelbourne and they have a value
(20:22):
of learn faster through feedback.
Now I met Didier Elzinga, who'sthe founder of the company.
I met him when I was writingCulture Fix some years ago and
he talked about the fact that ifthey don't give feedback in the
moment, then an opportunity forlearning is missed.
And I think quite often one ofthe things that I hear a lot is
that managers feel like theyhave to give praise before they
(20:45):
provide some kind of negativityor constructive feedback.
That doesn't really happen inthe high performance cultures.
In the high performancecultures, what you get is
managers who are ready with thepraise, and it's usually around
behavior, because what they wantis more of the behavior.
Any parent will know that.
But also with that comes thefact that, hey, here's one thing
(21:05):
that you need to think about.
I don't have to dress it, Idon't have to build you up to
let you down.
That's a phrase that I, it's inthe moment, it's honest, it's
without apology and it's aclassic British thing.
We do, the British, do this allthe time.
It's like oh, I'm sorry, can Ijust tell you this?
You know what you're doing thenis really saying you know, oh,
(21:27):
it's on me, I'm really sorry totell you this, but when actually
sometimes you just need to betold.
You know, I had a boss who readme the riot act when I was in my
late 30s and he was absolutelyright in what he'd said, because
you know, I've been a bitliberal with the truth about
something that I'd done and heabsolutely tore a strip off me
(21:47):
and he did it in such a highlyemotionally intelligent way and
like I just sat there, took it,made some notes and he said all
right.
He said so do you understand?
I was like yeah.
He said do you know what youneed to do differently next time
?
I was like yeah.
He's like okay, great, so let'smove on.
He's like what are you doing atthe weekend?
And the feedback was so welldelivered?
I remember coming back mylittle black notebook.
I'm like it's okay to be direct, it's okay to be honest.
(22:10):
You don't have to pussyfootaround it or dress it up.
Sometimes the best feedback isin the moment.
It's direct, you land the pointbut then you move on, rather
than then keep laboring thepoint over and over again for 15
, 20 minutes afterwards.
Cath (22:25):
Yeah, I think actually we struggle.
I think the Brits are possiblykind of really struggle with
this direct feedback thingbecause I've had lots of, you
know, other nationalities Dutch,germans, who are maybe
Americans who are naturally alittle more direct, naturally,
and it's actually great.
I find it brilliant becausethey're not pussyfitting around,
but I know they can feel, oh mygoodness, that's suddenly seen
(22:46):
as intimidating or bullying orsomething like that.
It's brilliant to just bedirect, but of course you need
to set those ground rules.
First of all.
I think you're right that theNetflix example with lots of
things they try and invert thiskind of constrained, strangling
culture to free up, actuallyagain very much, a learning
culture.
Are you part of trying to getbetter or maybe you're not in
(23:09):
the right place?
And that's exactly the languagethat comes from sport, and Ben
Hunt-Davies talks in his bookabout the rowing crew that
completely turned around theirperformance from, you know, not
even making finals to winning inthe Sydney Olympics.
And you know again, they foundfeedback really awkward and
difficult at first but actuallythrough working with a coach and
a psychologist, they realisedthat if you know a way in which
(23:33):
we could do something better andyou don't say it.
You're slowing the crew down.
I mean, how mad is that?
That's the exact parallel ofthat comment that you pulled out
from Reed Hastings there, and Ithink that's helpful in that
moment.
When you go, I think it couldbe a little uncomfortable and so
of course we pull back at thatmoment.
(23:53):
If you have that in your mindnow I need to do this because
I'm committed to this crew.
I don't want to hold back on apiece of information.
It could come down tomilliseconds in the end.
So if you know a way we coulddo something better, then it's
part of your responsibility toshare it.
But of course those need to bereally talked through and lived
rules.
(24:14):
I've found there's quite acommon theme sometimes in
leadership teams where there'sdecent levels of trust, where
there seems to be a kind ofrespect for everyone in their
own area having their functionalexpertise.
There then becomes thisstickiness where somebody in
(24:40):
another area feels they can'task a question or offer a
suggestion or give some feedbackbecause that's not respecting
that somebody else is the expertor that person then feels, oh
my goodness, well, I can't haveyou, you know, kind of telling
what to do in my area becauseyou know I don't come and poke
my nose in your area.
So I think it's quite aninteresting leadership team
challenge as well.
That means trust has probablygot stuck at a certain level and
(25:01):
we've lost sense again of thatteam being a place of collective
learning from each other.
And somehow we're coming andwe're all proving well, my team
are holding up, and I've got todefend the marketing team and
over here I've got to defend theIT team, and if you criticize
them then that's criticizing me.
And so I think it's a realchallenge in leadership teams
(25:21):
and we seem to have got stuck insome cultures and it's
something for chief executivesto think about where somehow you
know the whole purpose of thatteam, the rules of that team,
the you know, one of the ways inwhich that team can help the
organization to become moreeffective is for there to be
feedback feeding and flowingreally freely across the team.
(25:44):
So I think that's quite aninteresting scenario where often
it's more difficult than I'dexpect it to be, and then you
have to come back and startcreating, in a way, that shared
identity that we're a collectiveas a leadership team not I've
got my functional hat on'm hereto sort of defend us to the hilt
.
So you know that's anotherplace in which organizations.
Colin (26:03):
Of course, if there isn't feedback happening there,
that's also going to probablymake it harder for it to happen
and flow across the organizationlower down yes, I feel like we
could talk about this for for along, long time, kat, but before
we get to our our three things,I just want to remind people
out there, because, youmentioned at the start, it is a
question that we get asked, andif you have a question that you
(26:24):
would like us to answer, or ifthere's a particular show that
you'd be interested in hearing,you can drop us an email at
insideoutcultureatgmailcom forone of our questions episodes.
But let's wrap this episode up,Cath, and with our three
takeaways.
So what?
What should people do?
Cath (26:41):
so I'm going to go back to that.
What I think that bestproactive step is seek feedback
on the things that you want toget better at.
Go out there, work out.
Who's got some of the answersto help you.
Go and get the feedback, don'twait for it.
So that's the action, that'sthe do, and the second thing is
what we should get curious about.
Colin (27:01):
Yeah, I think well, you know, I kind of alluded to it.
You know what's blocking youfrom asking for feedback, from
giving feedback, as you know,kind of receiving it on a daily
basis.
I mentioned the what's onething it became relatively easy
for me to do after a little bitof practice.
So what's blocking you fromasking that same question?
(27:25):
And then what to uncover, Cath.
Cath (27:27):
Yeah.
So uncover where in theorganization you might find some
lovely pools of support,feedback, insight.
So yeah, uncover where there isfeedback inside your
organization waiting for you tounlock it.
That will help you become thebest you can be.
Colin (27:45):
Excellent I also think that we alluded to it as well is
don't wait for the six 12-monthcycle.
Exactly right.
Where is that feedback?
Don't wait for that.
Too many organizations, toomany individuals get stuck in
that six 12-month cycle whenthere's so much you can learn
ahead of that time.
Fascinating feedback.
(28:05):
I feel like we could do anotherone on this at some stage.
Cath (28:09):
Be proactive.
But it'd be good to get someother questions, other angles on
feedback.
We haven't addressed Because itis such a sticking point and
people kind of I think when theyhear especially some of those
sporting stories, they're like Iwant to be part of this, it
feels good feedback feels goodin that environment.
It's what makes you feel you'vehad a really useful session.
So, um, you know, really wantto help others unlock that
(28:31):
fantastic, well, great chat, asever, Cath.
Colin (28:34):
I look forward to the next episode great conversation,
thank you.
Cath (28:38):
Thanks for listening to today's inside out culture
podcast.
Colin (28:41):
Well, great chat, as ever , Cath.
I look forward to the nextepisode.
Great conversation, thank you.
Thanks for listening to today'sInside Out Culture Podcast.
Please remember to like,subscribe and, of course, share
with others who you think may beinterested.
Welcome to the Inside Out Culture Podcast, where we look
at insides of working cultureand provide ideas, insights and
actions for you to take on theoutside.
I'm Colin Ellis and I'm Cath.
Cath (00:13):
Bishop, and in each episode we'll examine a
different question or adifferent organization, and
we'll use case studies, researchand our own insights and
experiences to help you changethe way things get done in your
world.
Colin (00:27):
We hope you enjoyed today's episode.
Please like, subscribe and, ofcourse, let us know what you
think.
Hello everybody, welcome toanother episode of the Inside
Out Culture podcast, and todaywe are talking about feedback.
Cath (00:42):
So feedback is one of those topics that we get a lot
of questions about.
It's definitely up there when Ido talks, because I often
mention feedback, particularlywhen I'm talking about Olympic
environments.
It's one of those worlds where,oh everybody finds feedback
difficult, so I find it reallyfascinating.
I think it comes up a lot inyour world too.
Colin (01:01):
Yeah, it does, Cath, it does.
But I feel like we should startwith sports, and particularly
with your experience, Because Ithink and correct me if I'm
wrong but I think sport doesfeedback really really well.
Is that fair?
Cath (01:16):
Yeah, I agree, it feels so natural, it feels so obvious to
do feedback in a sportsenvironment.
To do feedback in a sportsenvironment the idea that you
would do a training session,play a match, do a rowing race
and then not debrief itafterwards and say, what was
good, what do we want to dobetter next time the idea it
(01:40):
just would be incomplete.
It's such a part of the cultureat all levels and it feels so
easy.
And I always found that such acontrast then when I came into
the civil service, when I wasworking as a diplomat, when I've
gone into organizations wherepeople struggle and it's so
difficult and it feels socounter, so uncomfortable to do,
and so I think this is onespace where there is really a
(02:00):
lot to learn from the rowingworld or from the sports world
more generally.
It's something that we talkabout.
A lot to learn from the rowingworld and or from the sports
world more generally.
It's something that we talkabout a lot, and in the book
Will it Make the Boat Go Faster,which my rowing friend Ben
Hunt-Davis wrote with HarrietBeveridge and he has a company
of that name they talk a lotabout feedback there and I think
(02:21):
one of the really clear factorsin that sports environment is
that from the start, it's partof what you do, so it doesn't
matter whether you're a noviceand it doesn't matter whether
you're really really good ormake loads of mistakes.
Everybody gets feedback, seeksfeedback, gives feedback, is
asked for feedback.
So it just is something thatbecomes quite natural.
(02:44):
And in that lovely question,will it make the boat go faster?
It's sort of known to beencapsulating what we were
trying to do each day.
It's make improvements, it'sfind ways for us to go faster in
order to win a gold medal.
But the question we asked eachday wasn't will this help us win
a gold medal?
Because that's quite set a longway in the future.
It's out of our control.
(03:06):
Most people in that environmentthe equipment manager, the
nutritionist, the coach they'llnever win a gold medal, but what
we're all in the business of ismaking boats go faster.
And because we all knew that,we all connected with that
mission, it then becomes easierto give feedback.
So I think one of the criticalthings is are you all signed up
to a shared mission which is initself got learning, which has
(03:31):
got learning at the heart of it?
Because that is a reallyimportant precondition.
We were all there to learnevery day new ways in which we
could make boats go faster, andthat was the case when I learned
as a student, and that was thecase when I learned as an
Olympian slightly more intense,slightly more focused.
But it's part of success, it'spart of what you do, it's part
(03:52):
of just the DNA of that worldand that's perhaps what isn't
there in the organizationalworld so strongly.
Colin (04:00):
Yeah, I always think with feedback that high performers
want it and low performers needit.
And yet, in the kind ofcorporate world that I worked in
, I can only recall one companywhere it was part of the culture
to provide immediate feedback,certainly for my teams, even in
government, it's something thatI did.
(04:20):
You know we had these regularfeedback sessions, but more
often than not, Cath, what wouldhappen is and you'll have seen
this in the civil service aswell is this wait, wait, wait
till the end of six months, tillthe end of 12 months, to
actually provide feedback, andoften that was part of a cycle
of a performance managementreview which nobody seemed to
want to do anyway.
(04:41):
It seemed to be a bit of aform-filling chore, when the
reality is, you know, as youjust made the point is, feedback
is absolutely crucial, and it'scrucial in the moment in order
to keep performance where itneeds to be, such that you can
maintain that forward momentum.
I think that, you know, for me,feedback has become, certainly
(05:06):
in the corporate world, feedbackhas become part of a
performance management processrather than a necessary skill
required to maintain high levelsof motivation such that goals
can be achieved.
Cath (05:18):
Yeah.
So I definitely agree thatappraisals have killed feedback,
killed it dead, have put thefear of God into so many people
and, as you say, there's a delaybecause the feedback is stored
up.
And again, this is exactly whatI found.
I was waiting for feedback whenI joined the civil service.
(05:39):
I was like, where is thefeedback?
I'm asking for it?
No one's really giving it.
And then, oh, oh, and suddenlythey're giving it this afternoon
about things I've forgottenabout.
It feels really awkward.
There's a slight sort ofemotional overlay or underlay to
it and it slightly feels itfeels a little bit personal.
I feel it's been presented as asort of critique of me, rather
(06:00):
than is this you know, these arethe things that would help you
become an even better civilservant or diplomat, in my case.
So, going back to that, will itmake the boat go faster?
This is about you being an evenbetter rower.
Great, this is why you're notgood enough, or this is the
stuff that we're judging youwith.
(06:20):
And that's where, again, itgoes wrong, because then, of
course, we feel very unsafe, wefeel very threatened, and the
moment we feel threatened, westop listening, we stop being
able to really take it on boardand have a relaxed conversation
where we can learn.
Yeah, everybody's defenses goup and we start justifying
things that are usually too farin the past at that point for
(06:41):
anyone to quite know the fullstory.
So appraisals have definitelykilled feedback and this sense
of letting them become personal.
It's not a judgment on yourvalue as a human being.
This is all about and it'simportant they're quite future
focused how we become evenbetter, whether it's our first
day at work or whether we're theCEO.
It's about how we become bettertomorrow.
(07:03):
But that only works if you havethat learning mindset in the
culture.
That we're here to get bettereach day and again, I think
that's one of the differences isactually a humility in a
performance in sportsenvironment that we're all
trying to get better and we'reaiming to be better than anyone
in the world.
I mean, that's not easy.
We're not going to do thatunless we're working hard every
day to improve.
(07:24):
Not easy.
We're not going to do thatunless we're working hard every
day to improve, where somehow, Ithink in the corporate world,
we stop thinking about improvingand are trying to prove
ourselves.
I'm trying to prove I'm the best.
I'm trying to prove I can do myjob, and that again then means
we're not open to learning.
We're not seeing that and wesee it as well.
Maybe I'm not doing my job wellenough I can't do my job.
We get into that fixed mindsetthinking.
(07:45):
So I think you know it gets toopersonal, then it doesn't work,
if it's just not in the moment.
But, as you say, those are twofactors that are really
important to set up feedback.
Well, what other factors do youthink help us?
Colin (07:58):
Well, I think for me, one of the biggest issues and I
recognised quite a few years agois that managers aren't very
good at setting expectations, orcoaches aren't very good at
setting expectations,particularly around behavior,
particularly around performance,and what that then does is that
feedback almost feels unnatural, it doesn't feel like it's
(08:22):
connected to anything, and Ithink that this is often why
people take feedback personallyis there hasn't been enough work
done at the start to set reallyclear expectations about what's
required in terms ofperformance and behavior, so
that when feedback is provided,it almost feels like you're you
know.
The person almost feelsattacked, like why are you
telling me this?
(08:42):
And so you know.
I think it's one of the thingsthat organizations should seek
to correct.
You know, I'm doing a programnext week and it's a core part
of the program and these managerskills is well, how do you set
expectations?
I think it's one of thoseskills that's assumed when
there's a real process to set inexpectations.
If you want to be able to givefeedback in the right way and if
(09:04):
you want it to be received inthe right way, then people have
got to be crystal clear aboutwell, what do you need from me?
When do you need it by?
Who do I need to work with interms of my behavior?
What do I have latitude overyou know, or agency over you
know?
What's the expectation of me inpresenting the information back
?
And these sound like all verybasic things, Cath, but if you
(09:26):
sit down with anyone and say,okay, well, when was the last
time someone set expectationwith you in a really structured
way, you know, people say, well,I got an email telling me what
to do and it's like, well,that's not.
It really you know.
Expectation is best set face toface, because then I can give
you feedback face to face, tosay, hey, you know that thing,
that you know that thing that wetalked about on Monday, and I
(09:46):
said this is going to be done byWednesday and you need to check
in with these people.
Where are you up to?
I haven't started yet.
Hey, well, listen, what we saidwas and I think it's very
cyclical feedback, but too oftenit feels like a gotcha moment
and I think it was MihalyCsikszentmihalyi, in his book
Flow, who talked about feedback,and he said almost any kind of
(10:09):
feedback can.
Then, paraphrasing it almost anykind of feedback can be
enjoyable, providing that it'slogically related to the goals
and the expectations that wereset around that, and I think
this is why people often have aproblem with feedback.
It feels disconnected, or elsesomeone's telling them to be
(10:30):
positive about something.
The feedback is oh, you need tobook your ideas, oh, you just
need to be positive.
Thank God, you told me thatI've been negative for 20 years.
I just need someone to tell meto be positive.
So I think, when it comes tofeedback, we have to set, set
the environment up in the rightway, so that people want the
feedback and it's done in alogical way, rather than it feel
(10:53):
like a well, why are youtelling me this now?
Cath (10:55):
kind of approach yeah, and I think you know that reminds
me about the importance of rolemodeling.
That.
So, again, if you're the linemanager or a leader, to be out
there seeking feedback is reallyimportant.
For me this is one of thereally helpful not tricks but we
often get sort of sucked intogiving feedback, receiving
(11:18):
feedback, how I give it, how Ireceive it, and we can
definitely develop our skillsand we should constantly develop
our skills and interestingly,we work really hard at that in
the learning environment.
Our psychologist, our coach,would help us to get better at
giving each other feedback,because it's tricky, we don't
want to piss each other off butwe also want to make sure we're
really extracting the feedback,because in that ways to get
(11:38):
faster.
But one of the ways to sort ofget out of that stickiness is
for us to be proactive aboutseeking feedback.
And in fact, when they wiredpeople up, the neuroscientists
and wired our brains up, youknow, when people sort of came
up and said I've got feedbackfor you, colin, immediately the
brain registers a threat.
Often in our organisations,partly because of this wider
(12:01):
environment where you know wefeel actually I don't know that
you've got my best interests andare really caring for me, and
so at that point, because you'rejust not listening as much,
it's really difficult for you totake it on board.
It also means I might come withfeedback to you.
I don't even know if it'ssomething you're aware of or
working on.
(12:22):
Potentially I come at a timewhen you might be busy or tired
or distracted or dealing withsomething else, and so that
whole scenario is quite tricky.
For it to go out Well, it needsa lot of preparation, whereas
actually, if you come seekingfeedback from me, you reverse
all those dynamics becauseyou're in control of the process
.
You're coming to ask aboutsomething you're interested in,
(12:42):
you've identified as important.
You want to get better in thisarea, yeah, so you're driving
that process, you're owning yourown learning and I feel at ease
because I'm no longer worriedabout are you even thinking
about developing in this area ifwe haven't had a previous
conversation or clarified it.
So you know and I feel valuedbecause you're asking me for my
opinion.
So seeking feedback is reallyimportant and to ask people who
(13:06):
do you want feedback from?
Who are you going to go and getfeedback from this year or this
next month or during thisproject?
And I think that's a reallyhelpful trick to try and help us
get out of this threat statewaiting for it to be delivered.
And I'm going to do it.
I'm going to listen, I'm goingto take it on board without
getting emotional or withoutgetting defensive into.
(13:28):
No, I'm going to go and findfeedback Because you know what?
There is so much usefulinformation sitting in our
organizations.
There is no need to go oncourses.
There are people in yourorganizations with all kinds of
gems that you could unlock andnearly always I want to say
always people will want to helpyou and want to share their
views and their advice and theirexpertise.
(13:49):
They may just say I can't do itnow, come back at another time,
but 99.9% of the time they wantto.
They feel valued that you'reasking for their view.
So start getting better atseeking feedback and setting
yourself some goals around thatand thinking this week I'm going
to get some feedback here.
I'm going to ask you before Igo in to do a talk or before I
go in to chair this meeting.
(14:10):
I'll say to you I'm reallyworking on this today.
I'm really working on, you know, making sure we stay to time
and but everyone has a voice andI'd like some feedback on that.
So then you're ready andlooking and helping and know I
want to work on that andafterwards we can have that
conversation.
So that dynamic of switchingmuch more to seeking feedback is
(14:31):
for me something that canreally help us unlock it.
And again, in that rich feedbackenvironment in the sports world
where people are giving it toyou all the time, we still asked
a lot.
We were hungry for it.
We're seeking out what else isthere that I could work on?
Or there's another athlete herewho's got some experience
that's similar to mine.
What else could I learn fromthem?
(14:51):
I came into sport really lateso I looked outside of rowing
other athletes who'd come tosport late in life.
What could I learn from them onthe sort of psychology side?
So it's really getting intothat proactive mode that can get
rid of a lot of the threat andthe stress and the waiting and
the delaying, unlock thelearning.
Colin (15:11):
I got into the process, probably in my early thirties,
of asking what's one thing.
So I had very specific what'sone thing you know you can tell
me about the way that I did this, what's one thing that you
would share with me about someknowledge that you feel that I
would need.
And then I added that to myteam meeting agendas, where we
(15:34):
gave permission for anybody toask for any feedback on anything
.
So it was called what's onething and we added it to the
bottom of the agenda.
In the beginning, Cath, when Ifirst introduced these things,
it is people feel felt reallyreticent to ask for feedback.
Is that something that you'vecaught?
And again, it doesn't.
I don't think it really happensin the in the sporting world as
(15:56):
much.
Do you think there's like ablock that we have?
It's really, it's reallyinteresting.
I didn't know about theneuroscience that really shows
how the brain reacts when itcomes to feedback.
Again, I'm just interested inyour experience from a sports,
sports perspective.
I don't get the sense thatpeople are like actually I don't
want that feedback right now,Whereas sometimes I feel like in
(16:17):
the corporate world that is thecase.
People are like listen, I justwant to come here, do my job go
home.
I don't want to get anyfeedback on whether I'm doing it
well or not.
I'm just wondering why that is.
Cath (16:27):
I think it comes back to this inherent sense of are you
here to learn and get better, orare you here to show us how
good you are?
And you know, we come into theworking world proving how good
we are and I can do the jobbetter than anyone else, almost
and I think we see some of thatbehavior displayed and therefore
it just isn't underpinningeverything we do.
(16:48):
That language, you know, isabout have we got it right or
wrong?
We don't talk about gettingstuff right or wrong, we just
talk about always getting better, and so I think things are
framed too much in that it'sright, it's wrong and therefore
you as a person, you're right,you're wrong rather than this
language of how are we going todo this even better.
So, when we do a great pitch,that's great.
(17:09):
What are the stuff we could doeven better?
And when we do a poor pitch,it's the same conversation.
What are the things we can dothat help us to be even better?
And that reviewing that comeswith feedback is something,
again in sport we do, becauseactually the race unless it's
the last race of your entirecareer or life it's basically
fulfilling the main purpose ofhelping you learn ways to go
(17:32):
faster in the race that follows.
And so, even when I win, I wantfeedback on the things I
haven't done so well and thethings I've done well, that I
can continue.
And when I lose, do you knowwhat I want?
Exactly the same, I wantfeedback on the stuff that I
need to improve and the things Ihaven't done so well, and so
it's having this sense ofconstant learning, constant
(17:52):
improvement, that we will alwaysask that question.
It's also framed in a sort ofconstant improvement is mastery.
We want to get better, whereasI think sometimes in the
workplace there is quite aculture that I'm trying to show
I know it all or I'm the best inmy field, somehow.
So I really think it's aboutswitching into more of a
learning mindset.
If you're in a learning mindset, it's the most natural thing in
(18:15):
the world to receive feedback.
But if you're not, if you'resomehow and it comes in the
difference between gross mindsetthinking and fixed mindset
thinking and a gross mindsetagain, I want feedback because
I'm here to learn and that'swhat I'm open to.
But in the fixed mindset, I'mafraid of feedback because it's
criticism.
(18:35):
It's telling me I'm not goodenough and I'm here to get 10
out of 10.
The growth mindset is going.
I'm just looking to get better.
So I really think it comes downto whether learning is embedded
or not, and I think thatsometimes organizations talk
about a learning culture but itisn't there, and you can see it
very quickly when you see aboutthe problems they might have
with feedback.
(18:55):
Well, clearly it's not alearning culture if people
aren't comfortable havingfeedback conversations and
they're rare and they don'thappen very often and we haven't
built up the skills.
Well, that's a really big signthat this is not a learning
culture.
And if it's not a learningculture, it is usually because
other people, the leaders inthat organization, are signaling
that this is about gettingthings right, that we don't want
(19:16):
to be looking.
You know, I don't want someoneto tell me I can do a better job
.
I want to show I've got theanswers, and I think that kind
of heroic model of leadershipand management that still exists
quite a lot in organizations is, you know, really kills off
feedback as well, and that'sstill very dominant in
organizations yeah is netflix'sculture is is much talked about
(19:38):
and much written about.
Colin (19:39):
Uh, reed hastings in his book in his book no rules rules
talks about feedback and thefact that they have a no holds
barred approach to feedback,which I kind of really like he
said again I'm paraphrasing hesaid it's tantamount to being
disloyal to the company if youwithhold feedback or you
disagree.
You have feedback that could behelpful.
(20:01):
But I think, just to echo yourpoint there, what they've done
there is really set up theculture to say we're a culture
that really values feedback.
As you come into theorganization it's something that
you can expect.
There's an employee listeningto a company called Culture Amp.
Culture Amp are based here inMelbourne and they have a value
(20:22):
of learn faster through feedback.
Now I met Didier Elzinga, who'sthe founder of the company.
I met him when I was writingCulture Fix some years ago and
he talked about the fact that ifthey don't give feedback in the
moment, then an opportunity forlearning is missed.
And I think quite often one ofthe things that I hear a lot is
that managers feel like theyhave to give praise before they
(20:45):
provide some kind of negativityor constructive feedback.
That doesn't really happen inthe high performance cultures.
In the high performancecultures, what you get is
managers who are ready with thepraise, and it's usually around
behavior, because what they wantis more of the behavior.
Any parent will know that.
But also with that comes thefact that, hey, here's one thing
(21:05):
that you need to think about.
I don't have to dress it, Idon't have to build you up to
let you down.
That's a phrase that I, it's inthe moment, it's honest, it's
without apology and it's aclassic British thing.
We do, the British, do this allthe time.
It's like oh, I'm sorry, can Ijust tell you this?
You know what you're doing thenis really saying you know, oh,
(21:27):
it's on me, I'm really sorry totell you this, but when actually
sometimes you just need to betold.
You know, I had a boss who readme the riot act when I was in my
late 30s and he was absolutelyright in what he'd said, because
you know, I've been a bitliberal with the truth about
something that I'd done and heabsolutely tore a strip off me
(21:47):
and he did it in such a highlyemotionally intelligent way and
like I just sat there, took it,made some notes and he said all
right.
He said so do you understand?
I was like yeah.
He said do you know what youneed to do differently next time
?
I was like yeah.
He's like okay, great, so let'smove on.
He's like what are you doing atthe weekend?
And the feedback was so welldelivered?
I remember coming back mylittle black notebook.
I'm like it's okay to be direct, it's okay to be honest.
(22:10):
You don't have to pussyfootaround it or dress it up.
Sometimes the best feedback isin the moment.
It's direct, you land the pointbut then you move on, rather
than then keep laboring thepoint over and over again for 15
, 20 minutes afterwards.
Cath (22:25):
Yeah, I think actually we struggle.
I think the Brits are possiblykind of really struggle with
this direct feedback thingbecause I've had lots of, you
know, other nationalities Dutch,germans, who are maybe
Americans who are naturally alittle more direct, naturally,
and it's actually great.
I find it brilliant becausethey're not pussyfitting around,
but I know they can feel, oh mygoodness, that's suddenly seen
(22:46):
as intimidating or bullying orsomething like that.
It's brilliant to just bedirect, but of course you need
to set those ground rules.
First of all.
I think you're right that theNetflix example with lots of
things they try and invert thiskind of constrained, strangling
culture to free up, actuallyagain very much, a learning
culture.
Are you part of trying to getbetter or maybe you're not in
(23:09):
the right place?
And that's exactly the languagethat comes from sport, and Ben
Hunt-Davies talks in his bookabout the rowing crew that
completely turned around theirperformance from, you know, not
even making finals to winning inthe Sydney Olympics.
And you know again, they foundfeedback really awkward and
difficult at first but actuallythrough working with a coach and
a psychologist, they realisedthat if you know a way in which
(23:33):
we could do something better andyou don't say it.
You're slowing the crew down.
I mean, how mad is that?
That's the exact parallel ofthat comment that you pulled out
from Reed Hastings there, and Ithink that's helpful in that
moment.
When you go, I think it couldbe a little uncomfortable and so
of course we pull back at thatmoment.
(23:53):
If you have that in your mindnow I need to do this because
I'm committed to this crew.
I don't want to hold back on apiece of information.
It could come down tomilliseconds in the end.
So if you know a way we coulddo something better, then it's
part of your responsibility toshare it.
But of course those need to bereally talked through and lived
rules.
(24:14):
I've found there's quite acommon theme sometimes in
leadership teams where there'sdecent levels of trust, where
there seems to be a kind ofrespect for everyone in their
own area having their functionalexpertise.
There then becomes thisstickiness where somebody in
(24:40):
another area feels they can'task a question or offer a
suggestion or give some feedbackbecause that's not respecting
that somebody else is the expertor that person then feels, oh
my goodness, well, I can't haveyou, you know, kind of telling
what to do in my area becauseyou know I don't come and poke
my nose in your area.
So I think it's quite aninteresting leadership team
challenge as well.
That means trust has probablygot stuck at a certain level and
(25:01):
we've lost sense again of thatteam being a place of collective
learning from each other.
And somehow we're coming andwe're all proving well, my team
are holding up, and I've got todefend the marketing team and
over here I've got to defend theIT team, and if you criticize
them then that's criticizing me.
And so I think it's a realchallenge in leadership teams
(25:21):
and we seem to have got stuck insome cultures and it's
something for chief executivesto think about where somehow you
know the whole purpose of thatteam, the rules of that team,
the you know, one of the ways inwhich that team can help the
organization to become moreeffective is for there to be
feedback feeding and flowingreally freely across the team.
(25:44):
So I think that's quite aninteresting scenario where often
it's more difficult than I'dexpect it to be, and then you
have to come back and startcreating, in a way, that shared
identity that we're a collectiveas a leadership team not I've
got my functional hat on'm hereto sort of defend us to the hilt
.
So you know that's anotherplace in which organizations.
Colin (26:03):
Of course, if there isn't feedback happening there,
that's also going to probablymake it harder for it to happen
and flow across the organizationlower down yes, I feel like we
could talk about this for for along, long time, kat, but before
we get to our our three things,I just want to remind people
out there, because, youmentioned at the start, it is a
question that we get asked, andif you have a question that you
(26:24):
would like us to answer, or ifthere's a particular show that
you'd be interested in hearing,you can drop us an email at
insideoutcultureatgmailcom forone of our questions episodes.
But let's wrap this episode up,Cath, and with our three
takeaways.
So what?
What should people do?
Cath (26:41):
so I'm going to go back to that.
What I think that bestproactive step is seek feedback
on the things that you want toget better at.
Go out there, work out.
Who's got some of the answersto help you.
Go and get the feedback, don'twait for it.
So that's the action, that'sthe do, and the second thing is
what we should get curious about.
Colin (27:01):
Yeah, I think well, you know, I kind of alluded to it.
You know what's blocking youfrom asking for feedback, from
giving feedback, as you know,kind of receiving it on a daily
basis.
I mentioned the what's onething it became relatively easy
for me to do after a little bitof practice.
So what's blocking you fromasking that same question?
(27:25):
And then what to uncover, Cath.
Cath (27:27):
Yeah.
So uncover where in theorganization you might find some
lovely pools of support,feedback, insight.
So yeah, uncover where there isfeedback inside your
organization waiting for you tounlock it.
That will help you become thebest you can be.
Colin (27:45):
Excellent I also think that we alluded to it as well is
don't wait for the six 12-monthcycle.
Exactly right.
Where is that feedback?
Don't wait for that.
Too many organizations, toomany individuals get stuck in
that six 12-month cycle whenthere's so much you can learn
ahead of that time.
Fascinating feedback.
(28:05):
I feel like we could do anotherone on this at some stage.
Cath (28:09):
Be proactive.
But it'd be good to get someother questions, other angles on
feedback.
We haven't addressed Because itis such a sticking point and
people kind of I think when theyhear especially some of those
sporting stories, they're like Iwant to be part of this, it
feels good feedback feels goodin that environment.
It's what makes you feel you'vehad a really useful session.
So, um, you know, really wantto help others unlock that
(28:31):
fantastic, well, great chat, asever, Cath.
Colin (28:34):
I look forward to the next episode great conversation,
thank you.
Cath (28:38):
Thanks for listening to today's inside out culture
podcast.
Colin (28:41):
Well, great chat, as ever , Cath.
I look forward to the nextepisode.
Great conversation, thank you.
Thanks for listening to today'sInside Out Culture Podcast.
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