December 20, 2022 • 44 mins
Michelle Hutchison is an actress, voiceover coach, writer, and producer. She also teaches professionals in the medical product industries on how to present more effectively-- we knew we couldn't talk about motivational speaking with talking about the speaking part!
In this episode, Michelle talks about performance in presentations with Leslie and I to discuss getting past slide decks and communicating with skilled expression and your emotional palette.
To learn more about Michelle's classes visit: https://www.skilledexpressions.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Aaron Harmon (00:00):
Hi, I'm Aaron Harmon.
Leslie Cooper (00:01):
And I'm Leslie Cooper. Welcome to Inside Out
quality.
Aaron Harmon (00:05):
Leslie and I are quality nerds. We like to figure
out what can go wrong and how itcan be prevented. Cap is our our
friend. How can we use qualityto build better safer products?
Can quality be a toolentrepreneurs use for success?
On this
Leslie Cooper (00:19):
podcast we talked to some fascinating guests and
listened to their stories aboutquality events gone both right
and wrong. we dissect thestories to teach and learn from
the experiences of our guests.
So grab your coffee, secure thelid, ensure it's not too hot and
enjoy our episode.
Aaron Harmon (00:38):
While I was seeking out a quality assurance
motivational speaker, acolleague and I were discussing
communication and the need to begood at it. He recommended to me
Michelle, a quality assuranceprofessional is positioned to
help a company improve as Bartsaid on the last episode,
quality is doing better tomorrowthan today. So we have to
influence change inorganizations. Being an
(00:59):
influencer is way easier when weare good communicators. My
university training was inmicrobiology, but not changing
cultures or communication. So Ineed help. And I'm guessing
others do too. We need expertguidance. Michelle Hutchison is
that expert. She's an actress.
She's acted in my best friend'swedding Fargo than I and a bunch
of others. She's performed inplays, done voiceovers and even
(01:23):
worked in casting talent formovies. Now she's helping those
in the medical device industrylearn to communicate. Welcome to
Inside Out quality. Michelle,
Michelle Hutchison (01:33):
thank you.
Excellent to be here. I'mexcited to talk about this.
Aaron Harmon (01:38):
So first of all, how did you get into acting?
Michelle Hutchison (01:41):
Well, it's a long story. But I'd started when
I was a very young person. I wasalways interested in the
performing arts. Having been indance I played the trumpet and
was in a very disciplined highschool band. We traveled all
over the country marched to theRose Bowl parade. And in high
(02:04):
school, it was thought that inorder to be an actor, you had to
be a singer of which I wasn't.
And my senior year, I finallydecided I was going to go for it
because Carol Burnett was myhero. And I loved comedy, I was
a bit of a goofball and did alot of comedy as a kid just
entertaining my friends. And soI finally auditioned for Once
(02:25):
Upon a Mattress, which was aplay that Carol Burnett was
really well known for onBroadway. And so I got one of
the lead roles. And as thesaying goes, That's all she
wrote. I was excited to be apart of the theater. It was a
natural fit for me. And Ipursued it in college and I have
(02:46):
my degree from the University ofMinnesota in theater, and have
been working professionally eversince. I should add that my
family, my mother's side of thefamily, we're all theater people
at the turn of the century. Andthey performed doing Uncle Tom's
Cabin on the road back in theearly 1900s. So I have I kind of
like to think it's maybe in myblood. So Carol Burnett,
Aaron Harmon (03:10):
her hair was about as red or red as mine used to be
when I was younger. Yeah, so Ialways felt like I'd see her and
be like her hair is like mine.
Michelle Hutchison (03:19):
She's just an amazing comic. And to this
day, many, many actors andcomedians from today, I always
refer back to Carol Burnettbecause she just set the bar so
high alongside of Lucille Ball,of course. Yes, yes. But I think
Carol Burnett was reallysomebody that I grew up watching
every Saturday night. And so shehad a lot of meaning from me.
(03:44):
And I wish I would have met her.
But I when I first went to LosAngeles many years ago, I met
her daughter. So I think that isas close as it's ever going to
get.
Leslie Cooper (03:54):
Wow, that's really cool. So how did you
begin training professionals ina medical device industry?
Michelle Hutchison (04:01):
Well, that's an interesting question, because
I was teaching at the GuthrieTheater in Minneapolis, which is
a world renowned theatre. And Ihad really, and probably the
last, I'd say 10 to 15 years.
Alongside working in theindustry as an actor, I was also
working as a teacher. So I wasteaching on camera acting,
(04:22):
working at universities, and Ialso have my own business
teaching on camera acting. Andso that led to me teaching at
the Guthrie Theater, and I wouldteach acting for non actors. And
I had a scientist who took myclass. And at the end of the
class, he said it was the bestthing he ever did. He wished he
would have done it at thebeginning of his career. He
(04:43):
connected me to a neuroscientistat one of these companies, a
large company and we started towork together he brought me in
to work with neuromodulation andI created a curriculum and what
was able to offer this class,that multi week class for
scientists and engineers. And itwas really wonderful because
(05:05):
they were very open to the ideaof getting up on their feet and
trying things that werecompletely outside of the norm,
which obviously is a major partof the work that I do, which is
learning how to be open toconnect, to use your body to do
use your voice to use yourstories. And so leading these
people into the realm wassomething that was really
(05:29):
wonderful. And of course, therewas some discomfort, and some
resistance to that, becausethat's not necessarily where you
work every day as scientist oran engineer, slowly, but surely,
I would really start to seethese changes. And it was just a
wonderful for me personally,just to watch people grow, and
to watch them become vulnerable,and then to see them become
(05:52):
empowered. And I feel like thework that I'm doing now is
mostly this type of work. And Ioffer all kinds of curriculum,
and teaching people how to bemuch more present, learning how
to create interesting content.
And then lastly, what I wouldsay is the development and
(06:12):
delivery of that content, whichis mostly over overlooked, and
the way that people prepare andthen present. So
Aaron Harmon (06:21):
as a quick confession, when I first met
you, we had a zoom call setup.
And I knew that you had thisbackground in training people
and I thought, I'm gonna bejudged the entire time, I'm on
the Zoom call. So I was like,trying to make sure I had the
lighting right behind me that Ihad my like face occupying most
of the. And I was like watchingmyself and how am I like, where
(06:43):
my eyes tracking during theconversations being very, very,
like, introspective about howthis is gonna go down. But I
feel that do you see like thesecommon pitfalls when you take
business folks or engineers andscientists and try to teach them
how to communicate, they likethings really like, oh, man,
it's such a rookie mistake. Isee that
Michelle Hutchison (07:03):
all the time, all the time. And, you
know, I don't blame anybody,because we don't walk around
with this self awareness. Beingan actor, this is we use our
bodies, our brains and ourpersonalities in the way that we
think that's our toolbox. So asa person outside of the realm of
what I do, that's notnecessarily what you're thinking
about, and what you're using inyour day to day work. So actors
(07:26):
have a hyper sense of awarenessjust because we have to. So I
would never judge peopleaccording to that, but I do
appreciate that you thought thatmuch to get ready for the call.
I do see the pitfalls, becauseit starts on the academic level.
And I understand why becausepeople are learning the work.
(07:46):
They're learning the content.
And there is a bit of a gap whenit gets into the business realm,
because people are hired fortheir expertise in what they've
learned academically. Butthere's not always that time
that is spent developing you asa communicator. And there might
be some courses that someuniversities offer, and I've
(08:07):
been fortunate enough to bebrought in for those. But I
don't think it's the norm. Andnine times out of 10. When I
will talk to somebody aboutpresentations, they'll say, I'll
send you my slide deck. Well, weknow the slide deck has become
so I guess primary in how peoplepresent because it's what
(08:28):
corporations talk about. Wedon't always talk about how do
you walk in the room? How do youhold yourself? How do you
breathe? How do you look peoplein the eye? How do you connect
with them? How do you influencethem? And that's the part that
younger people coming into theindustry are really just more
concerned with what they know,versus how do they deliver what
(08:51):
they know. And that is where Isay is the next step? Because
businesses are predicated ongood relationships, and they're
also competitive. And it's alsoabout how do I get my ideas out
there in order for me toinfluence change, and to be able
to accomplish the objectivesthat I have. And that doesn't
(09:14):
happen through a slide deck.
Aaron Harmon (09:17):
Right? And just reflecting on my career. And
what I've noticed, I felt likemy early formative years of my
career were about training me tonot have emotion, and to say, We
document things when we'rewriting reports when we're
reading plans for a studywhatever. It's not about like
this will be really exciting. Itis we will enroll X number of
(09:38):
trial subjects, we will do thiseverything you're writing is
this passive form of dry emotionfree writing. And then behavior
wise. I was kind of taught thatyou're not supposed to have
motion. You hear things likethis is a business decision.
This is not about youpersonally, but it's about
(10:00):
isness and all those things kindof push you as the person trying
to navigate the space to startthinking without emotion. And
then when you lose that feellike you'll lose that ability to
connect. And I was,
Leslie Cooper (10:12):
I was just gonna say that we had the similar
thing, you know, especially inthe scientific fields were very
black and white. It's all facts.
I actually had somebody oncetold me, we aren't allowed to
use the terminology feel we haveto say, I think this not I feel
this. Because with the industrywe're in, it's very thought
driven as not emotionallydriven. And so when you say I
(10:34):
feel that makes it look likeyou're using your emotions and
not factual.
Michelle Hutchison (10:41):
That's right.
Aaron Harmon (10:42):
Is that a misnomer? That we are not? We
are all humans feeling driven.
But we just like view it as abad thing. Possibly.
Michelle Hutchison (10:51):
I, you know, I think it's a I think it's a
difficult question to answer.
But I do think that there arecertainly, there's an
appropriate way of keeping yourcards close to your chest in
order to get what you need. Andif that is described as being
either humorless, or withoutemotion, then so so it is. But I
also think that there is a wayto be appropriately motivated
(11:13):
and passionate about what youare pursuing in a conversation
or a presentation that ispalatable for all. And I think
learning how to do that, Ithink, what is a misnomer is
that I show up, and I have zeroemotion, and I become a
corporate talking head, versussomebody who is trying to
(11:36):
inspire others. And when youlook at the medical device
companies, what are they about?
They're about people, and it'sabout how do we make people?
Well, that's our mission. And sowhy do we turn off that part of
the heartbeat in the way that wepresent? I think that's missing
a really important piece. Yeah.
And let me clarify, I don'tthink it's about being
(12:00):
emotional. I think what it is,is about being driven and
motivated and passionate, in away to be impactful. And so I
think sometimes when we think ofthe performance arts, we think
of people crying and beatingtheir chests and going over the
top, I don't think that's whatit's about.
Aaron Harmon (12:18):
It doesn't work out. Well. I've tried all of
them in meetings.
Michelle Hutchison (12:23):
And in their own right at your chair. Yeah.
But it's, it's a really curious.
It's a really curious work. Andevery company that I've worked
for, has a different culture andhas a different ethos in which
they work. And I'm aware of howthat is. And I have to read that
accordingly. But I do think thatwhen you look at the people who
(12:47):
move and that are leaders,they've learned how to bring
those elements into the way theypresent. There's an interesting
case study done by AlbertMehrabian, who is a, I believe
it's a social scientist at UCLA.
And it's a well worn case studycalled the Moravian study. And
(13:07):
he took speakers and he tookaudience members and the
audience members had to ratewhat they found to be most
important from the speakers. Andwhat they found is that there
were three elements that rose tothe top and 55% 38% and 7%. What
do you think was number one and55%? Important to the speaker?
(13:29):
Important to the audience? Fromthe speaker? Yes.
Aaron Harmon (13:33):
Eye contact? It's my guess.
Michelle Hutchison (13:36):
It's a good guess. Anything you want to say?
What do you think Leslie?
Leslie Cooper (13:39):
I was gonna say engagement. Like, there you feel
sucked in when they starttalking?
Michelle Hutchison (13:45):
So I think you're both right, but it's tied
to body language, their bodylanguage was number one, and
those are the nonverbals and howdo we connect with people in a
way that influences competenceand trust? If we show up with
our knees knocking and we can'tlook somebody in the eye, and
we're not breathing properly,and we seem anxious, and we feel
(14:09):
anxious? That's not necessarilysending a vote of confidence
learning how to manage thoseemotions is a big part of how we
present and anxiety is publicspeaking is the number two fear
next to death according to thelots of the research that I've
done. And not surprisingly,because so much is hinged on
that. It's really important.
What do you think is number twoat 38%?
Aaron Harmon (14:33):
You go first time honestly.
Leslie Cooper (14:34):
Oh boy. Oh, yeah,
Aaron Harmon (14:36):
my answer locked in
Leslie Cooper (14:37):
you got you're locked in. Let's see body
language. I was gonna say toneof their voice. If it's very
monotone, I get bored real fast.
Aaron Harmon (14:46):
I was critical.
That was my thing to tone ofvoice. You
Michelle Hutchison (14:50):
are both right. You get both gold stars,
some Halloween candy because itabsolutely is. The voice and
here's how One thing I like toask people, raise your hand, if
you love the sound of your ownvoice, raise your hand. And I'm
Aaron Harmon (15:08):
about halfway, but that's forced Oh, learning
because I have to listen tomyself constantly editing these
podcasts. I had to do it so muchthat I had to just embrace that
it is my voice and it is what itis.
Michelle Hutchison (15:20):
That's right. So you've learned See,
you've, you've learned how touse your voice. And most people
do not have that kind oftraining to understand the
beautiful thing that theirinstrument is and how to use it
properly. I really love to workwith people on that because as
an actor, you learn how to useyour voice to have range
quality, consistency, tone,timbre, inflection, if you will,
(15:44):
all those things that come intoit. And Leslie, I think
something you said isinteresting, I get bored. Now
think about if we are coming toan audience with zero passion,
zero interest, zero inflection,but just delivering a message?
How much are we going to capturetheir attention? How do we
impact them? Knowing how to useyour voice is is part of that?
(16:08):
And what do you think is last7%?
Aaron Harmon (16:11):
The first stab at this one?
Leslie Cooper (16:13):
Yeah, your turn dress
Michelle Hutchison (16:14):
what you're wearing? Lastly,
Leslie Cooper (16:17):
I was actually gonna say the same thing is your
appearance.
Michelle Hutchison (16:22):
The last is content. Oh, okay. But the dress
is number one, right? Becausethat's part of how do we appear
to our audience. We're very,this is part of being a human
being how we have immediatejudgments. I'm sure that there
are things that we pick up frompeople, just by the way that
(16:45):
they stand, they look, theytalk, they move our voices, all
of that is having a, a keenunderstanding of who we are, and
how we present and how we feelabout ourselves, and how we send
the message accordingly. That'sthe intersection that I see day
to day to day. And when peopleget caught up with being anxious
(17:08):
or worried, really what it is,is it's a fear not only a
failure, but a fear of will Ilook like a fool? Will I be able
to do this thing will I be ableto really achieve my objective,
when really, the perspectiveshould be, I want to connect
with you. I'm the host of thisparty, I want to include you, I
(17:32):
want to invite you into myproverbial home, as it were. And
that changes the perspective andthe way we present. Something
that Tina Fey said that I thinkis really fascinating is she
said, I finally learned whatacting is about, it's about the
other character. And there'ssome kind of a release or
(17:54):
liberty that happens when westart to think about it in those
terms. But of course, you haveto feel confident in the way
that you do present in order togo to the deeper level of that
engagement. Because when we'refocusing on ourselves, it's
really hard to focus on theaudience.
Aaron Harmon (18:10):
So can I say something that was sound really
bad? I think there might betruth in this, they can correct
me on our actors and actresses,emotional manipulators. So the
reason I say this is, youmentioned something earlier,
which was holding your emotionsclose to your chest. So you can
convey get what you want. And Iwas watching some of your roles
(18:33):
and watching how you expressedemotions, and I can understand
what that character was feelingand thinking is I thought I
could by what I was seeingportrayed. But when you show up
to act, you have to take on thisrole and portray this so that
the audience gets it, you're notable to, you know, if you had a
bad day going into your actingjob, you can't go in and Miss
(18:55):
have your actress or yourcharacter have a bad day as
well, you have to fit the role.
Michelle Hutchison (19:01):
Right. And it's not necessarily emotional
manipulation. I know it cansound sort of cloak and dagger,
but it really isn't. It's It'sunderstanding your own emotional
inventory. And using that as apalette for the role of the
character. One thing there'smany check boxes that you go
through when you create acharacter is you have to ask all
(19:26):
the pertinent questions, who arethey? What are the facts of who
they are, but then how do theyplay out those facts? And that's
just having an understanding ofhuman behavior. A lot of actors
have to have a deeperunderstanding of psychology and
what motivates us. And so youuse that as a template within
(19:46):
the role itself. And I don'tlike to think that when we
present we're putting onanything that's false or
disingenuous. I think it's aboutbringing who you are, the
deepest parts of who you are andthe greater parts of you who you
are to the top. And learning howto coach those and how to bring
them forward. The work I'm doingwith people, not only groups,
(20:09):
but individuals sometimes can bevery deep work. I was working
with a man who in the group, Ihad everybody present themselves
and he gave me the shortestintroduction to himself as
anybody in the group. And I'dlike to drill down from time to
time to say, what's that about?
Turns out as a child, it alwayslinks back to some wrong
(20:31):
thinking, or maybe a difficultpast, he felt that his father
did not want him to talk, hefelt he wasn't worthy. And
because of that, he alwayscarried that along like a heavy
Samsonite luggage. And we duginto that. And I don't like to
(20:53):
say I'm a therapist. Butsometimes I feel like I am in
this work. Because really, it'sgetting to the core of how do we
feel about ourselves. Instead ofputting on a mask, and digging
some of those wrong thinking orbehaviors out in order to be
have more liberty and freedom,we can become very self
(21:13):
judgmental of ourselves too. Andthat can also keep us really
closeted. And I attribute thatalso to the work that I do as an
actor is you have to comeovercome a lot in yourself in
order to serve these greatercharacters that you play. So if
you have any areas of your lifethat you're uncomfortable with,
(21:35):
you have to learn how to becomecomfortable and you overcome
them. And there's a lot offreedom that comes with
Aaron Harmon (21:41):
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show.
Aaron Harmon (22:25):
So to amend my previous comment, but it be more
correct to then say, somebodywho is acting or communicating
has an emotional palette thatthey can pull from to fill the
role they're trying to achievein that position.
Michelle Hutchison (22:41):
Absolutely.
And that's why I say your lifeexperiences are the template
from which you draw. So forthose older folks out there that
think their work is done not bya longshot because you have life
experience and understanding tobring to the work that you do.
And younger people have adifferent kind of energy based
on what they've learned so farin their life. So I think that
(23:02):
everything is useful, good, badand ugly.
Aaron Harmon (23:08):
This has got me thinking about what Maverick
would be like in Top Gun andplayed by Will Ferrell
Michelle Hutchison (23:17):
will be an excellent choice. Yeah, I
actually did years ago, and I'mjust telling myself a little bit
I did a show years ago in LosAngeles. And it was a group of
women that we performed a showcalled cabin pressure. And it
was way before 911. And it was agroup of women who were almost
(23:38):
like TSA agents. It was acomedy. And so we had some
people in Los Angeles that wereinterested in this as a possible
pilot. So we did our last showfor these group of people that
could have pushed the projectforward and Will Ferrell is it
was a friend of a friend of afriend. And so he acted as an
usher for the audience. And hewas hilarious. He came in as if
(24:04):
he was part of the ground crew,bringing people in with
flashlights and dancing along itwas hysterical. And this is I
think right before he was onSaturday Night Live. So he is
honestly probably one of thefunniest actors. I love how he's
very funny.
Leslie Cooper (24:21):
He's hilarious.
So I feel like you've given us alot of insight already. But can
you tell us a little about thetraining you offer?
Michelle Hutchison (24:30):
I offer a variety of curriculum. I have
many different things that Ioffer. On a high level I offer
training for teams that can be afull day can be multi week could
be longer than that if theydesire. I also offer through
these medical device companies Ioffer training within that are
(24:52):
fixed curriculum. But just togive you high level topics, what
I do is storytelling is one ofmy favorite classes that I offer
called storytelling one oh Oneengage your audience, I have
another called performing in themoment, the art of thinking fast
on your feet, which incorporatesthe skill of improvisation,
which I used to perform andstill do perform. I tell most
(25:13):
people, if you could get to animprovisation class, you should
run to it because you will learnto trust yourself more. And to
get over the idea that you mightfeel foolish. There's a lot of
wonderful things breakingthrough that worry and concern,
after another one calledpresenting outside of the box,
have another call of speaking toa global audience, which is
(25:36):
about leveraging globalcommunications, learning how to
deal with different cultures andlanguages and idioms. That's
just sort of the high level ofsome of the courses that I
offer. My company is calledskilled expressions. And I love
this type of work not onlyworking with individuals, but
(25:56):
working with teams. And thenobviously, I've worked within
departments too. And getting toknow people, some of the people
I've been training in thesegroups have continued to bring
me back yearly. And I'vecontinued to see these people
grow from five years ago topeople coming from behind them,
and watching the language ofthis skill being passed on and
(26:21):
people having a deeperunderstanding. So it's truly
very rewarding. And in manyways, I am in not so much in the
spotlight, but certainly more inthe backdrop helping in coaching
and mentoring. And there issomething quite beautiful about
that I really enjoy it.
Aaron Harmon (26:38):
So many of these sounds really good. And have a
company I can have you come andhelp work with us on some
curriculum and, and doing thisas an individual. If I just want
to show up, can I reach out toyour website, identify a class
or contact someone and then
Michelle Hutchison (26:57):
absolutely, Michel, at skilled
expressions.com, email me, andfeel free to contact me. As
mentioned, I work withindividuals. If I have somebody
that says I just want to do acoaching package I have that
they say I want to just meetwith you and work one to one
hour with you. That's fine. Iwant to meet with you because I
(27:19):
have a team that needs somehelp. How do you work. And I
will share with you that beforethe pandemic starting in 2015.
I've been working online, andnow they're one of my clients, I
work globally. So I have theability to work all around the
globe. But hey, if you want tofly me to Paris, I'm open to
(27:40):
that too.
Aaron Harmon (27:41):
That's a good gig, I want to do that. We'll do a
train that would be
Michelle Hutchison (27:45):
a phenomenal gig
Aaron Harmon (27:47):
might be some added costs, I suppose.
Michelle Hutchison (27:50):
Yeah. But you know, the virtual training
works really well. And Irealized that it does help
people to be able to connect.
And it's been interesting forthese teams that have people in
Eastern Europe, people inAfrica, people in Middle East,
and they can all get togetherand work in this collective way.
Because there's also a reallyinteresting aspect of coming
(28:11):
together and allowing yourselfto be vulnerable with your
workmates. And I see a lot ofchanges in really good
conversations that happen as aresult. I think it's more
peripheral that that happens.
It's not necessarily what Iintend. But it happens as a
result.
Aaron Harmon (28:29):
Adding to this like discussion about the remote
stuff. And through these thingslike zoom, I noticed a lot of
people hesitant to turn thecameras on. And so in the
classes I teach, I wouldn't havegone into zoom. I have students
that went from being veryoutspoken and talkative in the
class and engaging as soon as wego on zoom cameras off. And
(28:49):
they're asking questions, andwe're kind of like added touch
during the class. Right? Doesthat tie back? So when you
mentioned the question, likeraise your hand, if you're
comfortable with your own voice?
does that tie into appearancenow that we're in this world of
webcams, and
Michelle Hutchison (29:05):
I think it's a big part of it. And when I do
my on camera training, I alwaysrecord people. And it's so
fascinating because the firstclass people show up, I record
them. And the next time I seethem, they're all completely
physically changed. They'rewearing different clothes, their
hair, their makeup, everythingis completely different because
now they see how they appear. Idon't think that's a bad thing.
(29:28):
I think that's a good thing tobe aware of. Because we are at
working in this hybrid model andlearning how to do it and do it
well. is so important to yourcareer. I will go back to that
Moravian study what was thenumber one aspect of 55% body
language, if you don't have yourcamera on, you've just taken 55%
(29:49):
of your ability to impact anaudience away. And I think it's
really important to learn how towork on camera because that's
what it is. Now as far as thestudents are I actually request
everybody turn their camera on.
And I would say the first classpeople have that sense of
discomfort. But I have sort ofthe tricks of the trade to get
(30:10):
them to be a little moreengaged. And by the end, I
really think people aren'tthinking about it much anymore.
They get used to seeingthemselves. I do think when
people are constantly watchingthemselves on Zoom, that can be
distracting. But zoom also has afeature that you can turn off
your own self loop, if you will,in order to not see yourself.
(30:33):
And I think that that's alsouseful.
Aaron Harmon (30:38):
I didn't know about that. That's good to know.
Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah. Sothis will be a confession time.
So my name My coworkers arelistening, they'll know.
Occasionally, I'll play a gameon Zoom. Right? Try to sit as
still as I possibly can to makeeveryone think my screen froze.
So I do feel like the camerafeedback has been helpful for
(30:58):
that, because I can watch myselfand see how still I'm actually
holding. Yeah, which might showyou like my occasional
engagement, some of the meetingsI'm in like, kind of stray off
that far. But
Michelle Hutchison (31:08):
I think that's fun. I think if you have
fun with your audience, that'sgreat. Because there's enough
pain in the world. So why nothave a little fun? Exactly. But
I do think that being good oncamera, and turning and
encouraging, is something that Ido quite a bit with my groups is
I say, Look, you represent thisdepartment. If you as a leader,
(31:30):
do not turn your camera on, whatare you sending to your audience
that it's not necessary to showwho you are? And we're in a
people business. It's not justideas, look at what we watch on
our phones all day long videosof people, people, people,
people, people, we can't getenough of it. But we show up at
work and don't turn on camerason. It does not make sense. No,
(31:53):
that's very true.
Leslie Cooper (31:54):
Wow, what you've been talking about, it keeps
reminding me, I'm sure you'veseen the movie, The King's
Speech? Oh, sure. I always findthat scene where they have him
recording he has the headphoneson so he can't hear himself. And
then they play it back. And haveyou seen this movie? No, you
should watch it. It's reallygood. But he stutters and he
(32:14):
can't give a speech. Well, therewas no TV back then. And so he
actually they, they havesomebody come in and help him
with his speech. And he'swearing headphones, and they
record him and he's listening toloud music and reading. And when
he hears himself talk, thestutters gone. So when he
couldn't hear himself, and hewasn't thinking about it, he
just went with it. And it justkind of made me think about that
(32:37):
whole concept of, if you'reworried about what you're doing,
you're probably not you worryingtoo much about yourself, you
know, instead of your audience,you're worried you're gonna say
something wrong or do somethingwrong. And that's where your
mind is that not actuallyconveying your message.
Michelle Hutchison (32:52):
Exactly. And it's hard to focus on the other.
The other character as it were,which is the audience if you're
thinking about that. But in thetraining, we do focus on
ourselves in order to be able tolearn how to be to see this more
as a craft. I always say if youput a golf club in your hand in
the right way, for the firsttime, it feels awkward until you
(33:15):
learn how to make it work. Andit becomes second skin into your
point, Aaron, you and mentionedthat when you were for the very
first time, recording yourself,and then had to listen back, the
disembodied voice can be veryjolting to yours, pretty much.
But now you understand how tonot manipulate it, but how to
(33:42):
use your voice and the way thatyou intend and what you hear in
your ear. And I think thatthat's what this is about is
learning. What do I want to looklike? How do I want to sound?
How do I want to connect? Andnow how do I do it? And that's
very intentional. When I takevoice lessons, I have a voice
coach, I do all the training andthe technique with him. But when
(34:04):
I show up for the audition, Ilet it go. Because I'm working
on it behind the scenes until itbecomes part of who I am. But in
the performance itself. I'm notdoing that hyperfocus on all
those elements, you get torelease that. I've never thought
of myself as a vocal artist. Butto put that on earth now you
Aaron Harmon (34:25):
do. Yeah. One thing I realized, and having to
go through this process of likeediting my own. My own voice on
podcast is the podcast in itselfas a product that has different
purposes, different values topeople. And as being a voice on
the podcast, I'm part of thatproduct now. And so I have to
(34:47):
think like, how is the sound ofmy voice coming through? Am I
making lots of clicking sounds?
Do I stutter when I'm talkingall of those elements are kind
of subtly in the background, mymind and so when I'm going
through the editing process Overtime, I hear myself getting
better and better and better.
Because I'm building thatthought pattern, I think into my
delivering of, essentially eachepisode.
Unknown (35:10):
That's exactly right.
Because it's a craft, it's not,I think so much in our culture,
we'd say, I just want to bemyself, I want to be natural.
Well, natural isn't always goodand natural isn't always
compelling. So to learn how tobuild the craft, in order for it
to become natural, is really isreally the hope.
Aaron Harmon (35:30):
You went to college for this, like, this is
not a you just woke up, and youwere an actress. This was like,
oh, no,
Michelle Hutchison (35:36):
this, this is right, you study it for four
years. And then in your work,you begin to learn, I worked as
a voiceover artist not comingout of college that took time to
develop. And it took a lot oflearning hard knocks, and
playing back. But I would takecopy, which is anything printed,
(35:57):
could be a story, it could be acommercial, it could be whatever
I wanted it to be, and I wouldrecord myself. And that was back
in the day when we had thelittle eight tracks, and you
know, the the cassette tapeswhere you would talk into a
little phone microphone, and Iwould record myself. And that's
how I almost taught myself bytraining my ear, listening to
(36:20):
commercials, listening to TVcommercials, and then trial and
error and perfecting it andsmoothing out my voice and
learning how to use it. It's notsomething you just fall into. I
work sometimes training peopleon the mic. And people will say,
Well, I was always told that Ihad a really great sounding
voice. Well, that's great.
That's just the beginning of it.
(36:42):
It's like saying, I have anathletic build. So I should be
able to play basketball. Well,you got to learn the game.
Aaron Harmon (36:48):
It's easy to try to like not draw attention to
yourself, but to do the rolewell of communicating and
influencing others and conveyinga message and getting them
engaged in your message anddoing the body language and all
these things. How do you coachpeople to feel uncomfortable in
that role, to kind of embracingthe spotlight and saying, Yeah,
I will jump up on this platformat this big convention and
(37:10):
present because what I've got iscompelling, how do you get
through to people?
Michelle Hutchison (37:14):
Well, and that's, that's a really good
question. I think that's thesecret sauce is my personal
approach is that I am mypersonal way of thinking is that
everybody has something that isworthy. And they have something
that's important that that theyneed to share. And I start there
because if you don't believethat, then why are you on the
(37:37):
stage at all? And I coach peopleinto helping them believe that
and know that. And most peopleand their deepest parts really
do. They just doubt whether theycan succeed at it. And so I
start there, and then I craftthe message with them. What are
you trying to say? Not what'syour slides? Not? What is your
(38:02):
story? What do you want to say,at the end of the day? What is
your through line, and there's athrough line, to every story,
novel, play song poem. It's whatwriters call the through line.
And if you don't have a throughline, then you just have a lot
of ideas. But at the end of theday, you have to know what your
(38:25):
through line is. I had aplaywright, describe it to me
that it's the clothesline, ofwhich all your ideas, hang on.
And so that through line is thefirst place of where we start.
And then we build the ideas thatcome from that. What is your
supporting evidence? What aresome of your stories, what are
(38:45):
the elements that really supportyour thru line, and then we
frame it up, and then begin tohone it. As far as getting
somebody to get comfortable intheir own skin, or use theater
games, improvisational breathingexercises, getting people
(39:06):
comfortable in their bodies,first of all, and also use
emotional psychological thingsto get them to feel relaxed, and
to focus on the piece, what itis they're trying to say,
through line and get them in aplace of comfort and trust. And
you have to build trust withpeople because we have reasons
(39:27):
to be suspicious. We don't knowwhat someone wants from us when
we're working with you. And alot of people I find at the end
of the day are really whetheryou are in the lower rung of the
corporation or a CEO. Everybodyhas self doubt to some degree.
(39:47):
And I think that that is thegreatest way of when I start a
class is for everybody to talkabout the thing they worry about
and they find out right away. Ohwow. I never thought in a
million yours, you'd have thatdiscomfort that worried that
anxiety. And I think in someways, once we learn that it
(40:07):
helps us to not feel soalienated in our own discomfort.
Aaron Harmon (40:13):
You are like a therapist.
Michelle Hutchison (40:17):
I'm telling you, I've done a lot of deep
thinking about it. And it's,it's an odd thing that I watch
people go from maybe not havinga clue, or some people feeling
that they're really good at it,and learning so much and
becoming more at peace with whatit is. Because you want to be
able to enjoy this, you want tobe able to enjoy the moment that
(40:41):
you get to connect with anaudience, even if it is fraught
with fear. Fear is not adeterminant as to whether or not
you can do this. I am a seasonedperformer, and I get anxious
too. It just goes with theterritory. And a little anxiety
can give you good energy too. Wecall it opening night jitters in
(41:04):
sometimes the night that youdon't have jitters is the night
mistakes are made.
Aaron Harmon (41:09):
That's the way to sign up for classes. Now,
Leslie Cooper (41:11):
I know I was just thinking that, well. You talk
about your voice my husband isin. He used to be in television,
and now he does marketing. Buthe does a lot of radio. So I
always joke with him that he hashis radio voice and will be like
driving down the road and his hewill record it a commercial. And
the kids hear it and they'll belike, Hey, that sounds like dad.
(41:31):
Yes, I love that. So I agree theclasses sound fantastic.
Aaron Harmon (41:37):
I feel like we could just talk on and I know I
have all these like thoughts andquestions going through my mind
now. But your time is alsovaluable. And so you probably
have to bring things to a close,
Leslie Cooper (41:49):
you know, also, I was gonna say I really liked the
Guthrie since you direct there.
It's a very nice theater.
Michelle Hutchison (41:57):
Oh, it's a beautiful space. And you know,
since the pandemic, it'sobviously changed. But now
things have come back in thelast year, which has been nice.
And I'm training the Bachelor ofFine Arts students at the
University of Minnesota comingup in the next couple of weeks.
They the Guthrie has apartnership with the University
(42:17):
of Minnesota. And it's just fullcircle for me to have started at
the University of Minnesotagetting my degree in theater.
And now I'm training thesepeople.
Leslie Cooper (42:26):
That's really cool. Yes, it's, it's,
Michelle Hutchison (42:29):
it's a blessing. I still love to
perform. And I do miss itbecause I'm like I said, I'm a
goofball. And when I'm in frontof corporate audiences, they may
not always know that and I thinkyou have no idea how goofy I am.
But this side of who I am isjust equally as strong. And so
it's been nice in my latter partof my career to leverage my
(42:55):
understanding of the work I'mdoing now I find it to be very
rewarding.
Aaron Harmon (43:00):
So goofball is part of your emotional palette.
Absolutely.
Michelle Hutchison (43:04):
It actually starts there. Well, thank you,
Michelle. Absolutely. It's mypleasure.
Aaron Harmon (43:11):
This is awesome. I feel like I've learned a ton
already. Just in this episode.
Michelle Hutchison (43:16):
That's great. I would love to work with
you and anybody else who'sinterested, feel free to reach
out via my email at or am Iskilled expressions.com.
Aaron Harmon (43:26):
We will include those in the show notes too, so
Michelle Hutchison (43:28):
that people have fantastic, I appreciate it.
And thank you for having me on.
It was great.
Leslie Cooper (43:33):
This episode of Inside Out quality was brought
to you thanks to South Dakotabiotech Association. If you have
a story you'd like us to exploreand share. We'd love to hear
from you. Submit your ideas byvisiting www.sd bio.org
Aaron Harmon (43:48):
You've made it this far in the episode. Thanks
for listening
Hi, I'm Aaron Harmon.
Leslie Cooper (00:01):
And I'm Leslie Cooper. Welcome to Inside Out
quality.
Aaron Harmon (00:05):
Leslie and I are quality nerds. We like to figure
out what can go wrong and how itcan be prevented. Cap is our our
friend. How can we use qualityto build better safer products?
Can quality be a toolentrepreneurs use for success?
On this
Leslie Cooper (00:19):
podcast we talked to some fascinating guests and
listened to their stories aboutquality events gone both right
and wrong. we dissect thestories to teach and learn from
the experiences of our guests.
So grab your coffee, secure thelid, ensure it's not too hot and
enjoy our episode.
Aaron Harmon (00:38):
While I was seeking out a quality assurance
motivational speaker, acolleague and I were discussing
communication and the need to begood at it. He recommended to me
Michelle, a quality assuranceprofessional is positioned to
help a company improve as Bartsaid on the last episode,
quality is doing better tomorrowthan today. So we have to
influence change inorganizations. Being an
(00:59):
influencer is way easier when weare good communicators. My
university training was inmicrobiology, but not changing
cultures or communication. So Ineed help. And I'm guessing
others do too. We need expertguidance. Michelle Hutchison is
that expert. She's an actress.
She's acted in my best friend'swedding Fargo than I and a bunch
of others. She's performed inplays, done voiceovers and even
(01:23):
worked in casting talent formovies. Now she's helping those
in the medical device industrylearn to communicate. Welcome to
Inside Out quality. Michelle,
Michelle Hutchison (01:33):
thank you.
Excellent to be here. I'mexcited to talk about this.
Aaron Harmon (01:38):
So first of all, how did you get into acting?
Michelle Hutchison (01:41):
Well, it's a long story. But I'd started when
I was a very young person. I wasalways interested in the
performing arts. Having been indance I played the trumpet and
was in a very disciplined highschool band. We traveled all
over the country marched to theRose Bowl parade. And in high
(02:04):
school, it was thought that inorder to be an actor, you had to
be a singer of which I wasn't.
And my senior year, I finallydecided I was going to go for it
because Carol Burnett was myhero. And I loved comedy, I was
a bit of a goofball and did alot of comedy as a kid just
entertaining my friends. And soI finally auditioned for Once
(02:25):
Upon a Mattress, which was aplay that Carol Burnett was
really well known for onBroadway. And so I got one of
the lead roles. And as thesaying goes, That's all she
wrote. I was excited to be apart of the theater. It was a
natural fit for me. And Ipursued it in college and I have
(02:46):
my degree from the University ofMinnesota in theater, and have
been working professionally eversince. I should add that my
family, my mother's side of thefamily, we're all theater people
at the turn of the century. Andthey performed doing Uncle Tom's
Cabin on the road back in theearly 1900s. So I have I kind of
like to think it's maybe in myblood. So Carol Burnett,
Aaron Harmon (03:10):
her hair was about as red or red as mine used to be
when I was younger. Yeah, so Ialways felt like I'd see her and
be like her hair is like mine.
Michelle Hutchison (03:19):
She's just an amazing comic. And to this
day, many, many actors andcomedians from today, I always
refer back to Carol Burnettbecause she just set the bar so
high alongside of Lucille Ball,of course. Yes, yes. But I think
Carol Burnett was reallysomebody that I grew up watching
every Saturday night. And so shehad a lot of meaning from me.
(03:44):
And I wish I would have met her.
But I when I first went to LosAngeles many years ago, I met
her daughter. So I think that isas close as it's ever going to
get.
Leslie Cooper (03:54):
Wow, that's really cool. So how did you
begin training professionals ina medical device industry?
Michelle Hutchison (04:01):
Well, that's an interesting question, because
I was teaching at the GuthrieTheater in Minneapolis, which is
a world renowned theatre. And Ihad really, and probably the
last, I'd say 10 to 15 years.
Alongside working in theindustry as an actor, I was also
working as a teacher. So I wasteaching on camera acting,
(04:22):
working at universities, and Ialso have my own business
teaching on camera acting. Andso that led to me teaching at
the Guthrie Theater, and I wouldteach acting for non actors. And
I had a scientist who took myclass. And at the end of the
class, he said it was the bestthing he ever did. He wished he
would have done it at thebeginning of his career. He
(04:43):
connected me to a neuroscientistat one of these companies, a
large company and we started towork together he brought me in
to work with neuromodulation andI created a curriculum and what
was able to offer this class,that multi week class for
scientists and engineers. And itwas really wonderful because
(05:05):
they were very open to the ideaof getting up on their feet and
trying things that werecompletely outside of the norm,
which obviously is a major partof the work that I do, which is
learning how to be open toconnect, to use your body to do
use your voice to use yourstories. And so leading these
people into the realm wassomething that was really
(05:29):
wonderful. And of course, therewas some discomfort, and some
resistance to that, becausethat's not necessarily where you
work every day as scientist oran engineer, slowly, but surely,
I would really start to seethese changes. And it was just a
wonderful for me personally,just to watch people grow, and
to watch them become vulnerable,and then to see them become
(05:52):
empowered. And I feel like thework that I'm doing now is
mostly this type of work. And Ioffer all kinds of curriculum,
and teaching people how to bemuch more present, learning how
to create interesting content.
And then lastly, what I wouldsay is the development and
(06:12):
delivery of that content, whichis mostly over overlooked, and
the way that people prepare andthen present. So
Aaron Harmon (06:21):
as a quick confession, when I first met
you, we had a zoom call setup.
And I knew that you had thisbackground in training people
and I thought, I'm gonna bejudged the entire time, I'm on
the Zoom call. So I was like,trying to make sure I had the
lighting right behind me that Ihad my like face occupying most
of the. And I was like watchingmyself and how am I like, where
(06:43):
my eyes tracking during theconversations being very, very,
like, introspective about howthis is gonna go down. But I
feel that do you see like thesecommon pitfalls when you take
business folks or engineers andscientists and try to teach them
how to communicate, they likethings really like, oh, man,
it's such a rookie mistake. Isee that
Michelle Hutchison (07:03):
all the time, all the time. And, you
know, I don't blame anybody,because we don't walk around
with this self awareness. Beingan actor, this is we use our
bodies, our brains and ourpersonalities in the way that we
think that's our toolbox. So asa person outside of the realm of
what I do, that's notnecessarily what you're thinking
about, and what you're using inyour day to day work. So actors
(07:26):
have a hyper sense of awarenessjust because we have to. So I
would never judge peopleaccording to that, but I do
appreciate that you thought thatmuch to get ready for the call.
I do see the pitfalls, becauseit starts on the academic level.
And I understand why becausepeople are learning the work.
(07:46):
They're learning the content.
And there is a bit of a gap whenit gets into the business realm,
because people are hired fortheir expertise in what they've
learned academically. Butthere's not always that time
that is spent developing you asa communicator. And there might
be some courses that someuniversities offer, and I've
(08:07):
been fortunate enough to bebrought in for those. But I
don't think it's the norm. Andnine times out of 10. When I
will talk to somebody aboutpresentations, they'll say, I'll
send you my slide deck. Well, weknow the slide deck has become
so I guess primary in how peoplepresent because it's what
(08:28):
corporations talk about. Wedon't always talk about how do
you walk in the room? How do youhold yourself? How do you
breathe? How do you look peoplein the eye? How do you connect
with them? How do you influencethem? And that's the part that
younger people coming into theindustry are really just more
concerned with what they know,versus how do they deliver what
(08:51):
they know. And that is where Isay is the next step? Because
businesses are predicated ongood relationships, and they're
also competitive. And it's alsoabout how do I get my ideas out
there in order for me toinfluence change, and to be able
to accomplish the objectivesthat I have. And that doesn't
(09:14):
happen through a slide deck.
Aaron Harmon (09:17):
Right? And just reflecting on my career. And
what I've noticed, I felt likemy early formative years of my
career were about training me tonot have emotion, and to say, We
document things when we'rewriting reports when we're
reading plans for a studywhatever. It's not about like
this will be really exciting. Itis we will enroll X number of
(09:38):
trial subjects, we will do thiseverything you're writing is
this passive form of dry emotionfree writing. And then behavior
wise. I was kind of taught thatyou're not supposed to have
motion. You hear things likethis is a business decision.
This is not about youpersonally, but it's about
(10:00):
isness and all those things kindof push you as the person trying
to navigate the space to startthinking without emotion. And
then when you lose that feellike you'll lose that ability to
connect. And I was,
Leslie Cooper (10:12):
I was just gonna say that we had the similar
thing, you know, especially inthe scientific fields were very
black and white. It's all facts.
I actually had somebody oncetold me, we aren't allowed to
use the terminology feel we haveto say, I think this not I feel
this. Because with the industrywe're in, it's very thought
driven as not emotionallydriven. And so when you say I
(10:34):
feel that makes it look likeyou're using your emotions and
not factual.
Michelle Hutchison (10:41):
That's right.
Aaron Harmon (10:42):
Is that a misnomer? That we are not? We
are all humans feeling driven.
But we just like view it as abad thing. Possibly.
Michelle Hutchison (10:51):
I, you know, I think it's a I think it's a
difficult question to answer.
But I do think that there arecertainly, there's an
appropriate way of keeping yourcards close to your chest in
order to get what you need. Andif that is described as being
either humorless, or withoutemotion, then so so it is. But I
also think that there is a wayto be appropriately motivated
(11:13):
and passionate about what youare pursuing in a conversation
or a presentation that ispalatable for all. And I think
learning how to do that, Ithink, what is a misnomer is
that I show up, and I have zeroemotion, and I become a
corporate talking head, versussomebody who is trying to
(11:36):
inspire others. And when youlook at the medical device
companies, what are they about?
They're about people, and it'sabout how do we make people?
Well, that's our mission. And sowhy do we turn off that part of
the heartbeat in the way that wepresent? I think that's missing
a really important piece. Yeah.
And let me clarify, I don'tthink it's about being
(12:00):
emotional. I think what it is,is about being driven and
motivated and passionate, in away to be impactful. And so I
think sometimes when we think ofthe performance arts, we think
of people crying and beatingtheir chests and going over the
top, I don't think that's whatit's about.
Aaron Harmon (12:18):
It doesn't work out. Well. I've tried all of
them in meetings.
Michelle Hutchison (12:23):
And in their own right at your chair. Yeah.
But it's, it's a really curious.
It's a really curious work. Andevery company that I've worked
for, has a different culture andhas a different ethos in which
they work. And I'm aware of howthat is. And I have to read that
accordingly. But I do think thatwhen you look at the people who
(12:47):
move and that are leaders,they've learned how to bring
those elements into the way theypresent. There's an interesting
case study done by AlbertMehrabian, who is a, I believe
it's a social scientist at UCLA.
And it's a well worn case studycalled the Moravian study. And
(13:07):
he took speakers and he tookaudience members and the
audience members had to ratewhat they found to be most
important from the speakers. Andwhat they found is that there
were three elements that rose tothe top and 55% 38% and 7%. What
do you think was number one and55%? Important to the speaker?
(13:29):
Important to the audience? Fromthe speaker? Yes.
Aaron Harmon (13:33):
Eye contact? It's my guess.
Michelle Hutchison (13:36):
It's a good guess. Anything you want to say?
What do you think Leslie?
Leslie Cooper (13:39):
I was gonna say engagement. Like, there you feel
sucked in when they starttalking?
Michelle Hutchison (13:45):
So I think you're both right, but it's tied
to body language, their bodylanguage was number one, and
those are the nonverbals and howdo we connect with people in a
way that influences competenceand trust? If we show up with
our knees knocking and we can'tlook somebody in the eye, and
we're not breathing properly,and we seem anxious, and we feel
(14:09):
anxious? That's not necessarilysending a vote of confidence
learning how to manage thoseemotions is a big part of how we
present and anxiety is publicspeaking is the number two fear
next to death according to thelots of the research that I've
done. And not surprisingly,because so much is hinged on
that. It's really important.
What do you think is number twoat 38%?
Aaron Harmon (14:33):
You go first time honestly.
Leslie Cooper (14:34):
Oh boy. Oh, yeah,
Aaron Harmon (14:36):
my answer locked in
Leslie Cooper (14:37):
you got you're locked in. Let's see body
language. I was gonna say toneof their voice. If it's very
monotone, I get bored real fast.
Aaron Harmon (14:46):
I was critical.
That was my thing to tone ofvoice. You
Michelle Hutchison (14:50):
are both right. You get both gold stars,
some Halloween candy because itabsolutely is. The voice and
here's how One thing I like toask people, raise your hand, if
you love the sound of your ownvoice, raise your hand. And I'm
Aaron Harmon (15:08):
about halfway, but that's forced Oh, learning
because I have to listen tomyself constantly editing these
podcasts. I had to do it so muchthat I had to just embrace that
it is my voice and it is what itis.
Michelle Hutchison (15:20):
That's right. So you've learned See,
you've, you've learned how touse your voice. And most people
do not have that kind oftraining to understand the
beautiful thing that theirinstrument is and how to use it
properly. I really love to workwith people on that because as
an actor, you learn how to useyour voice to have range
quality, consistency, tone,timbre, inflection, if you will,
(15:44):
all those things that come intoit. And Leslie, I think
something you said isinteresting, I get bored. Now
think about if we are coming toan audience with zero passion,
zero interest, zero inflection,but just delivering a message?
How much are we going to capturetheir attention? How do we
impact them? Knowing how to useyour voice is is part of that?
(16:08):
And what do you think is last7%?
Aaron Harmon (16:11):
The first stab at this one?
Leslie Cooper (16:13):
Yeah, your turn dress
Michelle Hutchison (16:14):
what you're wearing? Lastly,
Leslie Cooper (16:17):
I was actually gonna say the same thing is your
appearance.
Michelle Hutchison (16:22):
The last is content. Oh, okay. But the dress
is number one, right? Becausethat's part of how do we appear
to our audience. We're very,this is part of being a human
being how we have immediatejudgments. I'm sure that there
are things that we pick up frompeople, just by the way that
(16:45):
they stand, they look, theytalk, they move our voices, all
of that is having a, a keenunderstanding of who we are, and
how we present and how we feelabout ourselves, and how we send
the message accordingly. That'sthe intersection that I see day
to day to day. And when peopleget caught up with being anxious
(17:08):
or worried, really what it is,is it's a fear not only a
failure, but a fear of will Ilook like a fool? Will I be able
to do this thing will I be ableto really achieve my objective,
when really, the perspectiveshould be, I want to connect
with you. I'm the host of thisparty, I want to include you, I
(17:32):
want to invite you into myproverbial home, as it were. And
that changes the perspective andthe way we present. Something
that Tina Fey said that I thinkis really fascinating is she
said, I finally learned whatacting is about, it's about the
other character. And there'ssome kind of a release or
(17:54):
liberty that happens when westart to think about it in those
terms. But of course, you haveto feel confident in the way
that you do present in order togo to the deeper level of that
engagement. Because when we'refocusing on ourselves, it's
really hard to focus on theaudience.
Aaron Harmon (18:10):
So can I say something that was sound really
bad? I think there might betruth in this, they can correct
me on our actors and actresses,emotional manipulators. So the
reason I say this is, youmentioned something earlier,
which was holding your emotionsclose to your chest. So you can
convey get what you want. And Iwas watching some of your roles
(18:33):
and watching how you expressedemotions, and I can understand
what that character was feelingand thinking is I thought I
could by what I was seeingportrayed. But when you show up
to act, you have to take on thisrole and portray this so that
the audience gets it, you're notable to, you know, if you had a
bad day going into your actingjob, you can't go in and Miss
(18:55):
have your actress or yourcharacter have a bad day as
well, you have to fit the role.
Michelle Hutchison (19:01):
Right. And it's not necessarily emotional
manipulation. I know it cansound sort of cloak and dagger,
but it really isn't. It's It'sunderstanding your own emotional
inventory. And using that as apalette for the role of the
character. One thing there'smany check boxes that you go
through when you create acharacter is you have to ask all
(19:26):
the pertinent questions, who arethey? What are the facts of who
they are, but then how do theyplay out those facts? And that's
just having an understanding ofhuman behavior. A lot of actors
have to have a deeperunderstanding of psychology and
what motivates us. And so youuse that as a template within
(19:46):
the role itself. And I don'tlike to think that when we
present we're putting onanything that's false or
disingenuous. I think it's aboutbringing who you are, the
deepest parts of who you are andthe greater parts of you who you
are to the top. And learning howto coach those and how to bring
them forward. The work I'm doingwith people, not only groups,
(20:09):
but individuals sometimes can bevery deep work. I was working
with a man who in the group, Ihad everybody present themselves
and he gave me the shortestintroduction to himself as
anybody in the group. And I'dlike to drill down from time to
time to say, what's that about?
Turns out as a child, it alwayslinks back to some wrong
(20:31):
thinking, or maybe a difficultpast, he felt that his father
did not want him to talk, hefelt he wasn't worthy. And
because of that, he alwayscarried that along like a heavy
Samsonite luggage. And we duginto that. And I don't like to
(20:53):
say I'm a therapist. Butsometimes I feel like I am in
this work. Because really, it'sgetting to the core of how do we
feel about ourselves. Instead ofputting on a mask, and digging
some of those wrong thinking orbehaviors out in order to be
have more liberty and freedom,we can become very self
(21:13):
judgmental of ourselves too. Andthat can also keep us really
closeted. And I attribute thatalso to the work that I do as an
actor is you have to comeovercome a lot in yourself in
order to serve these greatercharacters that you play. So if
you have any areas of your lifethat you're uncomfortable with,
(21:35):
you have to learn how to becomecomfortable and you overcome
them. And there's a lot offreedom that comes with
Aaron Harmon (21:41):
that. Now we'll take a quick break to hear from
one of our sponsors. Today's
Joni Ekstrum (21:45):
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hear from you find us at wwwthat SD bio.org. Now back to the
show.
Aaron Harmon (22:25):
So to amend my previous comment, but it be more
correct to then say, somebodywho is acting or communicating
has an emotional palette thatthey can pull from to fill the
role they're trying to achievein that position.
Michelle Hutchison (22:41):
Absolutely.
And that's why I say your lifeexperiences are the template
from which you draw. So forthose older folks out there that
think their work is done not bya longshot because you have life
experience and understanding tobring to the work that you do.
And younger people have adifferent kind of energy based
on what they've learned so farin their life. So I think that
(23:02):
everything is useful, good, badand ugly.
Aaron Harmon (23:08):
This has got me thinking about what Maverick
would be like in Top Gun andplayed by Will Ferrell
Michelle Hutchison (23:17):
will be an excellent choice. Yeah, I
actually did years ago, and I'mjust telling myself a little bit
I did a show years ago in LosAngeles. And it was a group of
women that we performed a showcalled cabin pressure. And it
was way before 911. And it was agroup of women who were almost
(23:38):
like TSA agents. It was acomedy. And so we had some
people in Los Angeles that wereinterested in this as a possible
pilot. So we did our last showfor these group of people that
could have pushed the projectforward and Will Ferrell is it
was a friend of a friend of afriend. And so he acted as an
usher for the audience. And hewas hilarious. He came in as if
(24:04):
he was part of the ground crew,bringing people in with
flashlights and dancing along itwas hysterical. And this is I
think right before he was onSaturday Night Live. So he is
honestly probably one of thefunniest actors. I love how he's
very funny.
Leslie Cooper (24:21):
He's hilarious.
So I feel like you've given us alot of insight already. But can
you tell us a little about thetraining you offer?
Michelle Hutchison (24:30):
I offer a variety of curriculum. I have
many different things that Ioffer. On a high level I offer
training for teams that can be afull day can be multi week could
be longer than that if theydesire. I also offer through
these medical device companies Ioffer training within that are
(24:52):
fixed curriculum. But just togive you high level topics, what
I do is storytelling is one ofmy favorite classes that I offer
called storytelling one oh Oneengage your audience, I have
another called performing in themoment, the art of thinking fast
on your feet, which incorporatesthe skill of improvisation,
which I used to perform andstill do perform. I tell most
(25:13):
people, if you could get to animprovisation class, you should
run to it because you will learnto trust yourself more. And to
get over the idea that you mightfeel foolish. There's a lot of
wonderful things breakingthrough that worry and concern,
after another one calledpresenting outside of the box,
have another call of speaking toa global audience, which is
(25:36):
about leveraging globalcommunications, learning how to
deal with different cultures andlanguages and idioms. That's
just sort of the high level ofsome of the courses that I
offer. My company is calledskilled expressions. And I love
this type of work not onlyworking with individuals, but
(25:56):
working with teams. And thenobviously, I've worked within
departments too. And getting toknow people, some of the people
I've been training in thesegroups have continued to bring
me back yearly. And I'vecontinued to see these people
grow from five years ago topeople coming from behind them,
and watching the language ofthis skill being passed on and
(26:21):
people having a deeperunderstanding. So it's truly
very rewarding. And in manyways, I am in not so much in the
spotlight, but certainly more inthe backdrop helping in coaching
and mentoring. And there issomething quite beautiful about
that I really enjoy it.
Aaron Harmon (26:38):
So many of these sounds really good. And have a
company I can have you come andhelp work with us on some
curriculum and, and doing thisas an individual. If I just want
to show up, can I reach out toyour website, identify a class
or contact someone and then
Michelle Hutchison (26:57):
absolutely, Michel, at skilled
expressions.com, email me, andfeel free to contact me. As
mentioned, I work withindividuals. If I have somebody
that says I just want to do acoaching package I have that
they say I want to just meetwith you and work one to one
hour with you. That's fine. Iwant to meet with you because I
(27:19):
have a team that needs somehelp. How do you work. And I
will share with you that beforethe pandemic starting in 2015.
I've been working online, andnow they're one of my clients, I
work globally. So I have theability to work all around the
globe. But hey, if you want tofly me to Paris, I'm open to
(27:40):
that too.
Aaron Harmon (27:41):
That's a good gig, I want to do that. We'll do a
train that would be
Michelle Hutchison (27:45):
a phenomenal gig
Aaron Harmon (27:47):
might be some added costs, I suppose.
Michelle Hutchison (27:50):
Yeah. But you know, the virtual training
works really well. And Irealized that it does help
people to be able to connect.
And it's been interesting forthese teams that have people in
Eastern Europe, people inAfrica, people in Middle East,
and they can all get togetherand work in this collective way.
Because there's also a reallyinteresting aspect of coming
(28:11):
together and allowing yourselfto be vulnerable with your
workmates. And I see a lot ofchanges in really good
conversations that happen as aresult. I think it's more
peripheral that that happens.
It's not necessarily what Iintend. But it happens as a
result.
Aaron Harmon (28:29):
Adding to this like discussion about the remote
stuff. And through these thingslike zoom, I noticed a lot of
people hesitant to turn thecameras on. And so in the
classes I teach, I wouldn't havegone into zoom. I have students
that went from being veryoutspoken and talkative in the
class and engaging as soon as wego on zoom cameras off. And
(28:49):
they're asking questions, andwe're kind of like added touch
during the class. Right? Doesthat tie back? So when you
mentioned the question, likeraise your hand, if you're
comfortable with your own voice?
does that tie into appearancenow that we're in this world of
webcams, and
Michelle Hutchison (29:05):
I think it's a big part of it. And when I do
my on camera training, I alwaysrecord people. And it's so
fascinating because the firstclass people show up, I record
them. And the next time I seethem, they're all completely
physically changed. They'rewearing different clothes, their
hair, their makeup, everythingis completely different because
now they see how they appear. Idon't think that's a bad thing.
(29:28):
I think that's a good thing tobe aware of. Because we are at
working in this hybrid model andlearning how to do it and do it
well. is so important to yourcareer. I will go back to that
Moravian study what was thenumber one aspect of 55% body
language, if you don't have yourcamera on, you've just taken 55%
(29:49):
of your ability to impact anaudience away. And I think it's
really important to learn how towork on camera because that's
what it is. Now as far as thestudents are I actually request
everybody turn their camera on.
And I would say the first classpeople have that sense of
discomfort. But I have sort ofthe tricks of the trade to get
(30:10):
them to be a little moreengaged. And by the end, I
really think people aren'tthinking about it much anymore.
They get used to seeingthemselves. I do think when
people are constantly watchingthemselves on Zoom, that can be
distracting. But zoom also has afeature that you can turn off
your own self loop, if you will,in order to not see yourself.
(30:33):
And I think that that's alsouseful.
Aaron Harmon (30:38):
I didn't know about that. That's good to know.
Yeah, I didn't know. Yeah. Sothis will be a confession time.
So my name My coworkers arelistening, they'll know.
Occasionally, I'll play a gameon Zoom. Right? Try to sit as
still as I possibly can to makeeveryone think my screen froze.
So I do feel like the camerafeedback has been helpful for
(30:58):
that, because I can watch myselfand see how still I'm actually
holding. Yeah, which might showyou like my occasional
engagement, some of the meetingsI'm in like, kind of stray off
that far. But
Michelle Hutchison (31:08):
I think that's fun. I think if you have
fun with your audience, that'sgreat. Because there's enough
pain in the world. So why nothave a little fun? Exactly. But
I do think that being good oncamera, and turning and
encouraging, is something that Ido quite a bit with my groups is
I say, Look, you represent thisdepartment. If you as a leader,
(31:30):
do not turn your camera on, whatare you sending to your audience
that it's not necessary to showwho you are? And we're in a
people business. It's not justideas, look at what we watch on
our phones all day long videosof people, people, people,
people, people, we can't getenough of it. But we show up at
work and don't turn on camerason. It does not make sense. No,
(31:53):
that's very true.
Leslie Cooper (31:54):
Wow, what you've been talking about, it keeps
reminding me, I'm sure you'veseen the movie, The King's
Speech? Oh, sure. I always findthat scene where they have him
recording he has the headphoneson so he can't hear himself. And
then they play it back. And haveyou seen this movie? No, you
should watch it. It's reallygood. But he stutters and he
(32:14):
can't give a speech. Well, therewas no TV back then. And so he
actually they, they havesomebody come in and help him
with his speech. And he'swearing headphones, and they
record him and he's listening toloud music and reading. And when
he hears himself talk, thestutters gone. So when he
couldn't hear himself, and hewasn't thinking about it, he
just went with it. And it justkind of made me think about that
(32:37):
whole concept of, if you'reworried about what you're doing,
you're probably not you worryingtoo much about yourself, you
know, instead of your audience,you're worried you're gonna say
something wrong or do somethingwrong. And that's where your
mind is that not actuallyconveying your message.
Michelle Hutchison (32:52):
Exactly. And it's hard to focus on the other.
The other character as it were,which is the audience if you're
thinking about that. But in thetraining, we do focus on
ourselves in order to be able tolearn how to be to see this more
as a craft. I always say if youput a golf club in your hand in
the right way, for the firsttime, it feels awkward until you
(33:15):
learn how to make it work. Andit becomes second skin into your
point, Aaron, you and mentionedthat when you were for the very
first time, recording yourself,and then had to listen back, the
disembodied voice can be veryjolting to yours, pretty much.
But now you understand how tonot manipulate it, but how to
(33:42):
use your voice and the way thatyou intend and what you hear in
your ear. And I think thatthat's what this is about is
learning. What do I want to looklike? How do I want to sound?
How do I want to connect? Andnow how do I do it? And that's
very intentional. When I takevoice lessons, I have a voice
coach, I do all the training andthe technique with him. But when
(34:04):
I show up for the audition, Ilet it go. Because I'm working
on it behind the scenes until itbecomes part of who I am. But in
the performance itself. I'm notdoing that hyperfocus on all
those elements, you get torelease that. I've never thought
of myself as a vocal artist. Butto put that on earth now you
Aaron Harmon (34:25):
do. Yeah. One thing I realized, and having to
go through this process of likeediting my own. My own voice on
podcast is the podcast in itselfas a product that has different
purposes, different values topeople. And as being a voice on
the podcast, I'm part of thatproduct now. And so I have to
(34:47):
think like, how is the sound ofmy voice coming through? Am I
making lots of clicking sounds?
Do I stutter when I'm talkingall of those elements are kind
of subtly in the background, mymind and so when I'm going
through the editing process Overtime, I hear myself getting
better and better and better.
Because I'm building thatthought pattern, I think into my
delivering of, essentially eachepisode.
Unknown (35:10):
That's exactly right.
Because it's a craft, it's not,I think so much in our culture,
we'd say, I just want to bemyself, I want to be natural.
Well, natural isn't always goodand natural isn't always
compelling. So to learn how tobuild the craft, in order for it
to become natural, is really isreally the hope.
Aaron Harmon (35:30):
You went to college for this, like, this is
not a you just woke up, and youwere an actress. This was like,
oh, no,
Michelle Hutchison (35:36):
this, this is right, you study it for four
years. And then in your work,you begin to learn, I worked as
a voiceover artist not comingout of college that took time to
develop. And it took a lot oflearning hard knocks, and
playing back. But I would takecopy, which is anything printed,
(35:57):
could be a story, it could be acommercial, it could be whatever
I wanted it to be, and I wouldrecord myself. And that was back
in the day when we had thelittle eight tracks, and you
know, the the cassette tapeswhere you would talk into a
little phone microphone, and Iwould record myself. And that's
how I almost taught myself bytraining my ear, listening to
(36:20):
commercials, listening to TVcommercials, and then trial and
error and perfecting it andsmoothing out my voice and
learning how to use it. It's notsomething you just fall into. I
work sometimes training peopleon the mic. And people will say,
Well, I was always told that Ihad a really great sounding
voice. Well, that's great.
That's just the beginning of it.
(36:42):
It's like saying, I have anathletic build. So I should be
able to play basketball. Well,you got to learn the game.
Aaron Harmon (36:48):
It's easy to try to like not draw attention to
yourself, but to do the rolewell of communicating and
influencing others and conveyinga message and getting them
engaged in your message anddoing the body language and all
these things. How do you coachpeople to feel uncomfortable in
that role, to kind of embracingthe spotlight and saying, Yeah,
I will jump up on this platformat this big convention and
(37:10):
present because what I've got iscompelling, how do you get
through to people?
Michelle Hutchison (37:14):
Well, and that's, that's a really good
question. I think that's thesecret sauce is my personal
approach is that I am mypersonal way of thinking is that
everybody has something that isworthy. And they have something
that's important that that theyneed to share. And I start there
because if you don't believethat, then why are you on the
(37:37):
stage at all? And I coach peopleinto helping them believe that
and know that. And most peopleand their deepest parts really
do. They just doubt whether theycan succeed at it. And so I
start there, and then I craftthe message with them. What are
you trying to say? Not what'syour slides? Not? What is your
(38:02):
story? What do you want to say,at the end of the day? What is
your through line, and there's athrough line, to every story,
novel, play song poem. It's whatwriters call the through line.
And if you don't have a throughline, then you just have a lot
of ideas. But at the end of theday, you have to know what your
(38:25):
through line is. I had aplaywright, describe it to me
that it's the clothesline, ofwhich all your ideas, hang on.
And so that through line is thefirst place of where we start.
And then we build the ideas thatcome from that. What is your
supporting evidence? What aresome of your stories, what are
(38:45):
the elements that really supportyour thru line, and then we
frame it up, and then begin tohone it. As far as getting
somebody to get comfortable intheir own skin, or use theater
games, improvisational breathingexercises, getting people
(39:06):
comfortable in their bodies,first of all, and also use
emotional psychological thingsto get them to feel relaxed, and
to focus on the piece, what itis they're trying to say,
through line and get them in aplace of comfort and trust. And
you have to build trust withpeople because we have reasons
(39:27):
to be suspicious. We don't knowwhat someone wants from us when
we're working with you. And alot of people I find at the end
of the day are really whetheryou are in the lower rung of the
corporation or a CEO. Everybodyhas self doubt to some degree.
(39:47):
And I think that that is thegreatest way of when I start a
class is for everybody to talkabout the thing they worry about
and they find out right away. Ohwow. I never thought in a
million yours, you'd have thatdiscomfort that worried that
anxiety. And I think in someways, once we learn that it
(40:07):
helps us to not feel soalienated in our own discomfort.
Aaron Harmon (40:13):
You are like a therapist.
Michelle Hutchison (40:17):
I'm telling you, I've done a lot of deep
thinking about it. And it's,it's an odd thing that I watch
people go from maybe not havinga clue, or some people feeling
that they're really good at it,and learning so much and
becoming more at peace with whatit is. Because you want to be
able to enjoy this, you want tobe able to enjoy the moment that
(40:41):
you get to connect with anaudience, even if it is fraught
with fear. Fear is not adeterminant as to whether or not
you can do this. I am a seasonedperformer, and I get anxious
too. It just goes with theterritory. And a little anxiety
can give you good energy too. Wecall it opening night jitters in
(41:04):
sometimes the night that youdon't have jitters is the night
mistakes are made.
Aaron Harmon (41:09):
That's the way to sign up for classes. Now,
Leslie Cooper (41:11):
I know I was just thinking that, well. You talk
about your voice my husband isin. He used to be in television,
and now he does marketing. Buthe does a lot of radio. So I
always joke with him that he hashis radio voice and will be like
driving down the road and his hewill record it a commercial. And
the kids hear it and they'll belike, Hey, that sounds like dad.
(41:31):
Yes, I love that. So I agree theclasses sound fantastic.
Aaron Harmon (41:37):
I feel like we could just talk on and I know I
have all these like thoughts andquestions going through my mind
now. But your time is alsovaluable. And so you probably
have to bring things to a close,
Leslie Cooper (41:49):
you know, also, I was gonna say I really liked the
Guthrie since you direct there.
It's a very nice theater.
Michelle Hutchison (41:57):
Oh, it's a beautiful space. And you know,
since the pandemic, it'sobviously changed. But now
things have come back in thelast year, which has been nice.
And I'm training the Bachelor ofFine Arts students at the
University of Minnesota comingup in the next couple of weeks.
They the Guthrie has apartnership with the University
(42:17):
of Minnesota. And it's just fullcircle for me to have started at
the University of Minnesotagetting my degree in theater.
And now I'm training thesepeople.
Leslie Cooper (42:26):
That's really cool. Yes, it's, it's,
Michelle Hutchison (42:29):
it's a blessing. I still love to
perform. And I do miss itbecause I'm like I said, I'm a
goofball. And when I'm in frontof corporate audiences, they may
not always know that and I thinkyou have no idea how goofy I am.
But this side of who I am isjust equally as strong. And so
it's been nice in my latter partof my career to leverage my
(42:55):
understanding of the work I'mdoing now I find it to be very
rewarding.
Aaron Harmon (43:00):
So goofball is part of your emotional palette.
Absolutely.
Michelle Hutchison (43:04):
It actually starts there. Well, thank you,
Michelle. Absolutely. It's mypleasure.
Aaron Harmon (43:11):
This is awesome. I feel like I've learned a ton
already. Just in this episode.
Michelle Hutchison (43:16):
That's great. I would love to work with
you and anybody else who'sinterested, feel free to reach
out via my email at or am Iskilled expressions.com.
Aaron Harmon (43:26):
We will include those in the show notes too, so
Michelle Hutchison (43:28):
that people have fantastic, I appreciate it.
And thank you for having me on.
It was great.
Leslie Cooper (43:33):
This episode of Inside Out quality was brought
to you thanks to South Dakotabiotech Association. If you have
a story you'd like us to exploreand share. We'd love to hear
from you. Submit your ideas byvisiting www.sd bio.org
Aaron Harmon (43:48):
You've made it this far in the episode. Thanks
for listening
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.