December 6, 2022 • 30 mins
Earlier this year, I began searching for a Quality Assurance motivational speaker. This search introduced me to many amazing people; Bart Bosch is one of them. Bart is the founder of Vlitix and specializes in utilizing quality systems as a value driver for organizations.
If you want to turn Quality Assurance into a value driver for your company, this is your episode! Listen in as Bart and I discuss how quality can make your company more valuable and contribute to the bottom line.
To reach out to Bart, his email is bart@vlitix.com
https://www.vlitix.com/
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Episode Transcript
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Aaron Harmon (00:00):
Hi, I'm Aaron Harmon.
Leslie Cooper (00:01):
And I'm Leslie Cooper. Welcome to Inside Out
quality.
Aaron Harmon (00:05):
Leslie and I are quality nerds. We like to figure
out what can go wrong and how itcan be prevented. Cap is our our
friend. How can we use qualityto build better safer products?
Can quality be a toolentrepreneurs use for success?
Leslie Cooper (00:19):
On this podcast we talked to some fascinating
guests and listen to theirstories about quality events
gone both right and wrong. wedissect the stories to teach and
learn from the experiences ofour guests. So grab your coffee,
secure the lid, ensure it's nottoo hot and enjoy our episode.
Aaron Harmon (00:38):
Friend of mine asked me if I knew of a
motivational speaker in qualityassurance, that question was met
with a long pause. Because Ididn't know anyone. I went to
LinkedIn and posted the samequestion to regulatory and
Quality Network. The response Igot far exceeded my
expectations. comments came infrom a number of amazing people
who work in the space of qualityand motivation. And Bart Bosch
(01:00):
was one of them. After years ofindustry experience, art started
Quontinum, a company to helpothers protect their brands and
improve customer satisfaction totalk motivation and quality.
BART has joined me on thisepisode. Welcome to Inside Out
quality, Bart.
Bart Bosch (01:15):
Well, thank you, Erin, thank you very much for
having me.
Aaron Harmon (01:19):
So right away, I want to ask you, you told me
just as we were getting set upthat you've gone through a
rebranding and a name change?
Bart Bosch (01:25):
Can you tell me about that? Yeah. So I'll first
explain why the name Quontinumcomes from. So seven years ago,
I started my own coachingconsulting business, and I was
lying awake, like, well, so whatshould be the name of my
company. And I was thinkingabout it really, that was
actually I think the last time Iwas laying awake at night,
because I have to find the namefor my company. And I came up
(01:48):
with continuous improvement withthe cue from quality. So and
that's actually continuedconcern. So it's continue from
continuous and improveimprovement. And it started with
the cue from quality. So it'scontinual convexity, from
continuous improvement, with acue from quality. Now, after
seven years, and having heardalready numerous of time, like
(02:09):
bought, your company name ishard to pronounce, it's hard to
write. And also, because we werelooking at how can we do better
in the future? How can weposition ourselves in a better
way, and make ourselves muchbetter known because you want to
help as many copies as possible,we went actually to a marketing
agency. And we talked about whatour mission and vision was. And
(02:33):
they were looking at a newcompany name. And they came up
with the name flip fix, what westand for, is we help companies
to sustainable quality. And weuse our experience to increase
efficiency, and facilitatecontinuous improvement. That's
where we stand for, and came upwith the name of analytics, we
do it in a swift way, in aflexible way, and always with
(02:56):
the starting point from ourcustomers. So that's actually
the base point our customers,what do they ask what's good?
That's what we keep? What can weadd on? How can we improve
things? And it has to besustainable. So we don't want to
stay too long in the company. Wejust want to do our job very
good. And it must be able to tocompany take it on from there
on. So actually, that's that'swhere we stand for.
Aaron Harmon (03:16):
I love the term sustainable quality. Think has a
lot to unpack in that.
Bart Bosch (03:21):
Yeah, yeah, it was thinking about our new mission.
Because initially said, Yeah, wewant to help companies to
improve quality, I think it hasto be nowadays more than just
improve quality, it has to besustainable as well. Quality is
more nowadays than just purequality. I think we are now in
the fourth generation of qualitymanagement, where you much more
(03:42):
of stakeholder qualitymanagement, and where quality is
more facilitating quality,instead of being the owner of
quality, and must besustainable, is SB for longer
term as well. And it has to beembedded in a company. I think
everything we can sustainable isin there, what I think should be
in there as an inequality pointof view.
Aaron Harmon (04:03):
We're jumping right into quality, how did you
get into the world of qualityassurance.
Bart Bosch (04:09):
I studied biochemistry, I have a bachelor
degree in biochemistry, and Ivery much like the
microbiological part. And myfirst job was actually in a
cosmetic company, full time inmicrobiology. And I learned a
lot there but was not reallyinto the small quality control
but really quality assurancequality management. Then I moved
(04:31):
to a food company makingportions of marmalade and jams
and sauces as head of the lab,and at a certain moment, that
company was thinking like wewould like to go for us and 9000
certification. And at that timeactually, quote, he was actually
writing all the standards andall the procedures and documents
(04:52):
was still many years ago. Andthey wanted someone actually to
do all that writing work, thatcopy work, and that's when they
asked me if I would become theassistant Quality Manager. But
in that way, actually, I rolledinto quality systems and the
auditing part, which I likedvery much as well. So I really
(05:12):
wrote up the whole qualitymanagement system at that time,
that factory was then bought byHeinz, I mean, really became the
Quality Manager of the factory,and responsible for quality
control, quality assurance,regulatory part. So the whole
bunch, until I said, Well, thiscompany comes too big for one
person to manage, I would liketo have somebody to for the day
(05:35):
to day quality pieces of thesite from the factory, and I
would like to do the compliancepart two, because I really liked
the quality management part ofit. And then it made me quality
systems and audit means behindsquid servers in Europe for for
factories. So that wasunexpected. But I like it very
much, because I really coulddeep dive into quality
(05:55):
management systems and qualityassurance on how to implement it
and all that kind of stuff.
moved into vendor auditing,contract manufacturing,
auditing, quality improvement.
So for companies making artproducts, but not owned by IES,
did that for ATS responsible 26contract manufacturers in
Europe. And then I needed a newchallenge. So I left the
(06:18):
company, and I moved to theCampbell Soup Company, as
European supply Quality Manager.
And again, it was like makingsure that we had a stable supply
base quality wise, within Europefor the fight for for factories,
power supplies. So establishingthe system on how to select
(06:38):
suppliers, how to improve them,how to improve them how to
follow up, and if necessary, howto exit the suppliers. So and at
the same time, they were doingthe same exercise at global
level at Campbell. So I was veryclose contact with them. Until
the salt, European business andthen I moved to paratus s group
quality environmental safetydirector for the 56 sites in 43
(07:04):
countries worldwide for 7000people. And there it's more like
really the most strategic partof quality, etc. So I think I
did, yeah, quite every levelwithin the quality organization
you can have. And I think thatmakes me also very good and very
well positioned to help othercompanies to towards the
(07:26):
sustainable quality stuff. Butso yeah, so that's bit by
creating quality, and we're anhour entity with the quality
assurance part of the job.
Aaron Harmon (07:39):
That's a quite quite a career, a lot of
exposure to things and a lotoversee in. So in the world of
quality. Sometimes it's hard toexcite people about it and the
value of it, it's easy to selllike innovation and new
technology or improve sales. Butwhen it comes to the word
quality, like how did workwithin your roles, and with your
(08:01):
role now, how do you motivatepeople to embrace quality
systems?
Bart Bosch (08:05):
You know, what it is? Really quality people are
very good at what we do in thetechnical part. But we are not
good at is in marketing andselling quality and
organization. I did tell youthat. When I left my last job,
my manager said but you knowwhat your biggest problem was
last year? I said no. Well,there were no quality issues. So
(08:28):
you did a very good job inpreventing things from
happening. But that was notreally seen within the
organization. And I was thinkinglike, what is Bart doing? And I
think that's a bit the problemwe have within within quality.
We are very good at what we do.
But we are not good in showingit within the organization or
what we do to prevent thingsfrom happening, and what our
(08:49):
positive contribution is to thecompany. I think that's the
there's always a tension betweenthe two like that quality
minister said, Well, I'll do mybest, but I don't feel
recognized and quality doesn'tseem to be a priority. And on
the other hand, you have flexknee like general managers,
CEOs, like said, they say, Well,what what's actually quality
(09:10):
doing here? But they don't Idon't see any contribution from
them. Actually, they're moreseen as a cost. Yeah. And
there's two voices out hereconstantly, actually. And that's
a bit the issue, I guess, wherequality is in at the moment.
Aaron Harmon (09:27):
One of the terms I've heard is cost of
compliance, to refer to quality.
Unknown (09:32):
Yeah, yeah. But then you're not well, I'll tell you a
story. So one of my customers,the general manager came to me
said but we are growing but wedon't feel that our quote system
is growing with us. So actually,they're not really contributing
to the company. So we needsomeone to help us upgrading the
quality system because ourQuality Manager, you got it from
(09:53):
school, she doesn't have theexperience and need the
knowledge to do that. So if wecould call a greater as well
that would be fine. Yeah, I cando that no problem. And then
that's when talking to thequality manager. I said, but do
you know that every year I getthe question like, What are you
doing here? And what's yourcontribution to the company? So
you see these two voices camethere as well. And then I asked
(10:17):
her, Okay, but what is yourfinancial added value to the
business? And that's a questionI often asked to people of
quality minutes like, well, thiswill add a financial value to
the business. Because as aquality person, you have to
understand that you're workingin an organization in a company.
And the main goal of a companyis to make profit, this way your
(10:39):
salaries are paid off that way,the investments are paid off,
etc. And in my opinion, everypart of an organization should
contribute to the financialprofit of the company also
quality. And a lot of qualitymanagers don't think in that
way, in a financial way. Butit's actually the way on how you
(10:59):
can change things. Because ifyou were seen as a cost, why
would they give you priority?
Yeah, you only a cost, you don'twant to be in a corner where to
cut all the costs are. So youhave to find a way on how to get
out of there. So what we did is,we looked at the mission and
vision of the company, then fromthere on, we looked at the
(11:20):
quality policy, because in thatway, you really say, Okay, if
you can make your quality policyto that vision and mission of
your company, you already canshow the organization. Well,
this is our position, this isour role within the company. And
this is how our department ourquality is contributing to the
vision and the mission of thecompany. Yeah, so this is what
(11:41):
we do to help getting there inthe future. So I think that
that's already one importantpart on how to position yourself
as quality and make it moreimportant within your
organization. Now, from thequality policy, you go actually
to your objectives and yourKPIs, etc. And then we use the
(12:04):
KPIs like complaint rate, right?
First time, overdue, improvedaction rate, and all that kind
of stuff, to demonstrate addedvalue to the business. So we
said, okay, what are your maindrivers for complaints? For
instance? Yes, it okay, this,okay, what's your corrective
action, you're gonna take herimprovement action. Okay, we're
(12:25):
gonna do this. You saw over timethat she reduced complaints with
60%. of complaint rate. Butthere's a so far, they only look
at the absolute number ofcomplaints, and it was not
really decreasing, but sales wasgoing up, said, yeah, you can
show this to your generalmanager, you reduced your
complaint rate with 60%. That'syour contribution already to the
(12:48):
company. Yeah, you have morehappy customers. And these happy
customers will buy moreproducts. And it will add on to
the profit of the company andlove. And likewise, it will
continue. So in that way, we useactually two quality KPIs to
demonstrate how we added valueto the business. But I also
(13:09):
wanted to go to how can youdemonstrate you have added
financial value to the business?
And that's where we looked at?
What are the improvement actionsyou have to take? What's the
cost? And what's the return oninvestment. On that one, if you
can say, well, this as return oninvestment is improvement action
of three years, business wiseinvestment of three years is a
(13:30):
no brainer, everybody, everybodywill do that. But from that
moment on, you won't have thatannual ongoing cost any more
from that type of performance orcomplaints. And in that way, you
increase the profit of theorganization. So if you look at
where you position yourself,that you'll get your quality
policy, and you can demonstratethe return on investment of your
(13:51):
improvement actions. You havethese two elements, you can go
to senior management, and say,Well, this is our contribution
to the company. This is how weoperate within the company and
this our contribution and ourway of working but also
financially. And if you speakthe language of money, which is
in my opinion, the mostimportant language within the
(14:12):
business, then they will listento you. And then you will become
a priority again. It was with myfirst customer, we did this. We
keep repeating it at othercustomers as well. Because it's
really a powerful tool. If youreally can demonstrate your
financial added value to thebusiness. They will listen to
you.
Aaron Harmon (14:31):
Yeah, it's it's definitely a way of identifying
what's in it for them and how doyou correct and then also, is it
a way of instead of puttingquality in the corner of cost?
Is it a way of putting likecomplaints in the corner of
cost,
Bart Bosch (14:46):
if that makes sense.
Quality is doing better tomorrowthan today? Yeah, that that's
for me quality. So if you havecomplaints nonconformances they
are actually input for yourcontinuous improve One cycle,
yeah, for doing better tomorrowthan today. If you can make that
happen, and it's not thatthere's not really see complaint
(15:06):
seen as a cost, but as a meansfor continuous improvement, and
if you can then translate it inmore efficiency and less costs,
and bring financial benefit tothe business, I think it is
possible to take quality totallyout of that corner of being a
cost, to be honest. But this howyou how you sell it, and how you
(15:29):
market within your organization.
We always look at quality assomething negative. Most of the
times like no performances andcomplaints and people not doing
the things you want them to doand audit no performances and
things not going well. And Ithink we have to look at the
positive side on what qualitycan contribute. And then I think
(15:51):
it's more easy to get out ofthat corner of being a cost.
That makes sense. So it has
Aaron Harmon (15:59):
like a, just a side I'm looking at, there's a
microphone cord in front of methat hooks up to the mic to
recording. And on here it sayshigh quality microphone cable. I
looked down at that as you are.
What if that said low qualitymicrophone cable? I probably
wouldn't use it. Because as acustomer, no.
Unknown (16:19):
You would replace it.
It's also marketing yourproduct. Of course,
Aaron Harmon (16:25):
whoever this company is put on here high
quality.
Bart Bosch (16:29):
Yeah, I don't think any company will say well, we
have a low quality cable foryou. So it's
Aaron Harmon (16:36):
so it would be it's stupid. Yeah, it was. Now
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Aaron Harmon (17:25):
We still have tons of problems in the world of
quality, though. So I look atthe weekly FDA warning letters
and I see what's going on outthere. i You see things going on
in the news. Why are we stillhaving problems? We've got so
much advancement in qualityscience. Do you have any idea
what's why companies are stillstruggling in this space?
Bart Bosch (17:45):
I think it's like I said, in a lot of companies,
growth is still seen in adifferent way than we would like
to have it seen within as aquality department. Like I said,
it's often seen as a cost and anecessary evil. And just make
sure that you pass all theaudits, I think that might be
(18:06):
part of the problem. And butit's also about a quality
culture, I guess, making peopleaware what their contribution is
to a quality product. People arenot always aware of that some a
lot of people say I'm just doingthe job. No, it's making people
aware what the impact is on thequality of the product you're
(18:28):
making, and what the effect canbe. And I think there's still a
lot of job to do. For instance,when I have to audit, for
instance, raw material supplier,I always try to bring me a
product where their ingredientis used in. Yeah. So I can say,
well, what you make is actuallypart of this product. If
(18:48):
something goes wrong with yourproduct, if something goes wrong
over here, it will have animpact on this product. And it's
making people more aware of theimpact they can have actually on
quality of a product. Because Ithink a lot of people are not
aware of that.
Aaron Harmon (19:06):
That's a very good visual way to show that value.
Bart Bosch (19:09):
Yeah, it's people think, Well, I'm just yet, for
instance, people often think,Well, I'm just an operator doing
my job. No, you're not just anoperator doing your job. You are
someone who is actually makingan essential part of something
bigger. And to that bigger,there's for instance, a brand
connected to that one. Yeah, soactually you having direct
(19:30):
impact on the value of thatbrand. If you know that your
product that you make is part ofa bigger product. Are you happy
to tell your family have itconsumed or eaten or have it
used that will you feel safewith the product you make? Or
you say well, well actually Idon't care well then you don't
care, for instance, about safetyof your products. So I think
(19:54):
it's making people aware of theimpact of and quality of food
safety is I think veryimportant. and really make it
visual, make it stick, show thewhere products are used for how
it's connected to how many. Andif you're making finished
product, just show them how manyyou sell, and how big the sales
is, and how many people areconsuming it, that they know,
(20:17):
okay, if something goes wrong,it's that many people that are
impacted. So I think it has tobe more meat visual and make it
stick and make people aware oftheir impact on quality and food
safety.
Aaron Harmon (20:32):
Visual is so powerful, but one thing that
I've learned is if I try tocommunicate a message, and I use
PowerPoint, or, you know, sitthere and verbally describe it,
I've gone to the lengths oflike, showing that this process
can be improved at this ratewith this kind of cost
reduction. And I still couldn'twin people over with my
PowerPoints. When I sent peopleto a facility that was doing the
(20:53):
same process, which followed myvision, that was enough to solve
them. Because they were able tosee it themselves, instead of
just looking at my slides and belike, okay, you know, in this
table, you're saying this, butwhat's it really looked like?
Unknown (21:06):
Yeah, well, it's it's make it visual and visualize to
people that they betterunderstand what it's all about
what the impact is. It's noteasy to do. Yeah, but just give
it to them and said, Do you likethis product? Yeah, okay, well,
your product that you make ispart of this. Yeah, of of the
product you like, you're part ofthis you are to what you're
(21:28):
doing has a direct impact on thequality of this product that you
like, or your sister or yourkids or your children, or your
mom and dad. So your friends,you know, it's it's make it
personal, make it stick forthese people. And I think they
will get more engaged in thequality part of their job. And
(21:48):
in my opinion, if if every rolewithin a company does a quote,
this job, or the quality of thisproduct in the end as well. But
then everybody has to do aqualitative job, and has to be
aware how they can do it in aqualitative way and be engaged
to it and be committed to it tomake a good product.
Aaron Harmon (22:09):
So do you see the role of someone who is leading a
quality management system,partly as a role of motivation,
Bart Bosch (22:16):
motivation, and helping people to do a good
quality job? It's what I said inthe beginning as well. It's
quality is not here to oldquality, it's there to
facilitate quality. Everybodyhas to do a quality job. And I
think it's the role of somebodywho leads the quality department
to to help people do a goodquality job. Yeah. I can tell
(22:38):
you like, when I had to revertor quality system at my first
company, I went through theprocess owners said, Okay, can
you put in a flowchart whatyou're doing here? And if you
cannot do that, think again,what you're doing here? Yeah.
Then they looked very confusedto me. said, Yeah, but I mean,
if you cannot put in aflowchart, what you're doing
here, you have to think again,what I'm doing here, because I'm
just asking you put in aflowchart, every step of the
(23:01):
process, you do because you havea process, but you're doing it,
it's in a charge and purchasing.
It's in engineering, quality,name it, they really wrote the
process charts and flowcharts.
And then I said, Okay, now youhave to think on how you're
going to measure if your processis working? Well, yes or no? So
actually, what I was asking themis actually, can you come up
(23:22):
with a performance indicator ofyour process? To see if it
works, yes or no. And in thatway, they became totally owner
of their own procedure, becausethat flowchart was actually the
procedure, that what they did inthe department, and they could
measure it. So now you know thatif it's working well, yes or no,
and it's not going in the rightdirection, you can look in your
(23:43):
flowchart and see which processthat is not working well. And
you can work on that if you canimprove that step to make sure
that your performance indicatorsgoing back in right direction,
again, to the approach is goingwell again. And in that way,
they became total owner of theirown procedures. So that's what
we did over there. Yeah, I likethat.
Aaron Harmon (24:04):
Maybe a different way of looking at that I had a
VP of a research organization,how these breakout meetings with
our scientists. And in one ofthose sessions, he asked us, How
do you make money for thecompany? And an r&d
organization? I had alwaysviewed this r&d was a spent,
like, we spent money you putmoney into us and we would give
(24:24):
you products eventually. Butwhat I had to like boil it down
to on a daily activity, how do Igenerate money for the company
and r&d group? It reshaped how Ithought so I then thought, Okay,
I conducted these studies in thelab, they have to be conducted
if they were conductedelsewhere, it would cost this
much. So if I cut my operatingcosts on this study, if I can do
(24:45):
it without having to repeat itas much, if I can do more
studies a year, then I'm drivingvalue inside the organization.
And that gave me an easier wayto communicate why I should stay
employed and why I added valueand why our r&d group was
important. Yeah. Yeah, samething and quality. It's what
you're saying?
Unknown (25:05):
Well, when I asked her my first customers well to the
quality minutes, what's youredit financial value to the
business? She can look like. ButI make sure that the quality
that leaves the factory aregood. And we don't receive
complaints. Yeah. And in thatway, actually, if you don't have
to manage complaints, that's nota cost for the company. Set.
Yeah. But execute. That's whatyou paid for already. Yeah.
(25:29):
You're still a cost. You're notany financial value to the
business, you're still seen as acost by just doing your job?
Yeah, yeah. So I triggered okay,how can you add financial value
to the business and not say,Well, I make sure we use
complaints? Because that's yourjob. That's what you paid for
anyway, you're not addingfinancial value? Yeah, I think
(25:51):
you have to go one step further.
To do that. And I think, withwhat I did, actually, with
having the process of underwritetheir own processes is, okay,
how can we make the process moreefficient? Yeah. So if you do
internal audits, and you go tothat process chart and say,
Okay, why do you do this step?
(26:11):
Because I always did it thatway. Well, but what's the added
value of that step? Actually,there is no, skip it. Yeah. And
your process will be moreefficient. And in that way, you
can say, well, you to ourquality tools and techniques
like internal audit, we madeprocesses, or also administered
processes more efficient. And wecan do more of them in a shorter
(26:32):
time. And that's how we can addfinancial value to the business.
So it's using your quality toolsand techniques in a different
way in a different mindset, andtransfer what you do and what's
the Edit financial value to thebusiness? And like I said, it's
preventing complaints fromhappening. Well, that's what
you're paid for already. Yeah,that's not adding financial
(26:52):
value. Yes, to go one stepfurther. And I think different
way of thinking, towardscreating value, and also
financial value.
Aaron Harmon (27:03):
It's very much a shift of thought pattern. Yeah,
just one that I myself, I'm notvery good at, like just what
you're describing, I see myselfas struggling the same same way
as the cell quality, and theshow the the added value of it.
So your company now is this, oneof the services you provide is
to help go in and creatingsustainable quality, but then
(27:25):
also showing that added value.
Bart Bosch (27:27):
Yeah, we have three pillars within the company. One
is actually the one on onecoaching, consulting with
companies. And then we reallycan work on that sustainable
quality system. One on one withcompanies. Yeah, it's like, but
we want to have more structurein our company, you would like
to go for as in 1001 structure,not really for certification,
(27:47):
but really for the structure.
Can you help? Yeah, we can helpyou with that. No problem. But
you're looking at supply qualitymanagement, can you help us for
that part? Yeah, we can help youwith that on one on one. Yeah.
And then Chris is supposed toBlackboard message, just make
sure you have a good supplybase, that's actually preventing
issues from happening in yourcompany, because he was not good
Polish coming in, it'simpossible to make good product
(28:10):
coming out. So it makes qualityalso more sustainable in that
way. So that's one part isactually a one on one coaching
we do. The second part is prohave put customers supplier
audits, just to make sure theyhave a reliable supply base. And
we can use that as auditstandard and the audit tools, no
(28:30):
problem. But we make sure thatwe have that independent audit
going on at their supply just tomake sure they have sustainable
supply base. And the thirdpillar is something that we
recently started is an onlinecoaching program that really
goes through what we justdiscussed, it's it starts with
the mission and the vision ofthe company, and how you can
make your quality policy out ofit, how you can translate it in
(28:54):
the real true quality KPIs, andhow you can demonstrate your
edit financial value to thebusiness. And that's an online
coaching program, you have to dosome own work. So you have to
send in things to us, we cangive you feedback, because we
really want you to succeed inproviding that information that
you add financial value to thebusiness. So that's a coaching
(29:15):
program online that we recentlycreated.
Aaron Harmon (29:21):
Awesome. So if someone is listening to this,
they want to get a hold of youand go through the coaching
program or connect up forsupplier audits or do the one on
one coaching,
Unknown (29:29):
how do they reach out to you, they can easily send me
an email but at Fleet x.com I'llpick up the email, I think
that's the most easiest way togo forward. We have customers
all over the world withdifferent time zones that might
be difficult. So just send me anemail but@citrix.com And I'll
get in contact with you just tosee how we can move forward.
Aaron Harmon (29:53):
Awesome and I will include that in the show notes
to make it easy for people tonavigate to so that they can
click on your email address. andhow that right there? Yeah,
Unknown (30:01):
top. Thank you.
Aaron Harmon (30:03):
Well, thank you, Bert. This was great. I learned
a lot and I think our listenerswill too.
Unknown (30:08):
Good Hope too, because yeah, it's my thing is like,
I'll share my knowledge andexperience to help other
companies improve quality. And Ithink this is an excellent way
of doing this. So thank you verymuch for giving me this
opportunity.
Aaron Harmon (30:22):
I appreciate having you on here was great.
Leslie Cooper (30:26):
This episode of Inside Out quality was brought
to you thanks to South Dakotabiotech Association. If you have
a story you'd like us to exploreand share. We'd love to hear
from you. Submit your ideas byvisiting www.sd bio.org
Aaron Harmon (30:41):
You've made it this far in the episode. Thanks
for listening
Hi, I'm Aaron Harmon.
Leslie Cooper (00:01):
And I'm Leslie Cooper. Welcome to Inside Out
quality.
Aaron Harmon (00:05):
Leslie and I are quality nerds. We like to figure
out what can go wrong and how itcan be prevented. Cap is our our
friend. How can we use qualityto build better safer products?
Can quality be a toolentrepreneurs use for success?
Leslie Cooper (00:19):
On this podcast we talked to some fascinating
guests and listen to theirstories about quality events
gone both right and wrong. wedissect the stories to teach and
learn from the experiences ofour guests. So grab your coffee,
secure the lid, ensure it's nottoo hot and enjoy our episode.
Aaron Harmon (00:38):
Friend of mine asked me if I knew of a
motivational speaker in qualityassurance, that question was met
with a long pause. Because Ididn't know anyone. I went to
LinkedIn and posted the samequestion to regulatory and
Quality Network. The response Igot far exceeded my
expectations. comments came infrom a number of amazing people
who work in the space of qualityand motivation. And Bart Bosch
(01:00):
was one of them. After years ofindustry experience, art started
Quontinum, a company to helpothers protect their brands and
improve customer satisfaction totalk motivation and quality.
BART has joined me on thisepisode. Welcome to Inside Out
quality, Bart.
Bart Bosch (01:15):
Well, thank you, Erin, thank you very much for
having me.
Aaron Harmon (01:19):
So right away, I want to ask you, you told me
just as we were getting set upthat you've gone through a
rebranding and a name change?
Bart Bosch (01:25):
Can you tell me about that? Yeah. So I'll first
explain why the name Quontinumcomes from. So seven years ago,
I started my own coachingconsulting business, and I was
lying awake, like, well, so whatshould be the name of my
company. And I was thinkingabout it really, that was
actually I think the last time Iwas laying awake at night,
because I have to find the namefor my company. And I came up
(01:48):
with continuous improvement withthe cue from quality. So and
that's actually continuedconcern. So it's continue from
continuous and improveimprovement. And it started with
the cue from quality. So it'scontinual convexity, from
continuous improvement, with acue from quality. Now, after
seven years, and having heardalready numerous of time, like
(02:09):
bought, your company name ishard to pronounce, it's hard to
write. And also, because we werelooking at how can we do better
in the future? How can weposition ourselves in a better
way, and make ourselves muchbetter known because you want to
help as many copies as possible,we went actually to a marketing
agency. And we talked about whatour mission and vision was. And
(02:33):
they were looking at a newcompany name. And they came up
with the name flip fix, what westand for, is we help companies
to sustainable quality. And weuse our experience to increase
efficiency, and facilitatecontinuous improvement. That's
where we stand for, and came upwith the name of analytics, we
do it in a swift way, in aflexible way, and always with
(02:56):
the starting point from ourcustomers. So that's actually
the base point our customers,what do they ask what's good?
That's what we keep? What can weadd on? How can we improve
things? And it has to besustainable. So we don't want to
stay too long in the company. Wejust want to do our job very
good. And it must be able to tocompany take it on from there
on. So actually, that's that'swhere we stand for.
Aaron Harmon (03:16):
I love the term sustainable quality. Think has a
lot to unpack in that.
Bart Bosch (03:21):
Yeah, yeah, it was thinking about our new mission.
Because initially said, Yeah, wewant to help companies to
improve quality, I think it hasto be nowadays more than just
improve quality, it has to besustainable as well. Quality is
more nowadays than just purequality. I think we are now in
the fourth generation of qualitymanagement, where you much more
(03:42):
of stakeholder qualitymanagement, and where quality is
more facilitating quality,instead of being the owner of
quality, and must besustainable, is SB for longer
term as well. And it has to beembedded in a company. I think
everything we can sustainable isin there, what I think should be
in there as an inequality pointof view.
Aaron Harmon (04:03):
We're jumping right into quality, how did you
get into the world of qualityassurance.
Bart Bosch (04:09):
I studied biochemistry, I have a bachelor
degree in biochemistry, and Ivery much like the
microbiological part. And myfirst job was actually in a
cosmetic company, full time inmicrobiology. And I learned a
lot there but was not reallyinto the small quality control
but really quality assurancequality management. Then I moved
(04:31):
to a food company makingportions of marmalade and jams
and sauces as head of the lab,and at a certain moment, that
company was thinking like wewould like to go for us and 9000
certification. And at that timeactually, quote, he was actually
writing all the standards andall the procedures and documents
(04:52):
was still many years ago. Andthey wanted someone actually to
do all that writing work, thatcopy work, and that's when they
asked me if I would become theassistant Quality Manager. But
in that way, actually, I rolledinto quality systems and the
auditing part, which I likedvery much as well. So I really
(05:12):
wrote up the whole qualitymanagement system at that time,
that factory was then bought byHeinz, I mean, really became the
Quality Manager of the factory,and responsible for quality
control, quality assurance,regulatory part. So the whole
bunch, until I said, Well, thiscompany comes too big for one
person to manage, I would liketo have somebody to for the day
(05:35):
to day quality pieces of thesite from the factory, and I
would like to do the compliancepart two, because I really liked
the quality management part ofit. And then it made me quality
systems and audit means behindsquid servers in Europe for for
factories. So that wasunexpected. But I like it very
much, because I really coulddeep dive into quality
(05:55):
management systems and qualityassurance on how to implement it
and all that kind of stuff.
moved into vendor auditing,contract manufacturing,
auditing, quality improvement.
So for companies making artproducts, but not owned by IES,
did that for ATS responsible 26contract manufacturers in
Europe. And then I needed a newchallenge. So I left the
(06:18):
company, and I moved to theCampbell Soup Company, as
European supply Quality Manager.
And again, it was like makingsure that we had a stable supply
base quality wise, within Europefor the fight for for factories,
power supplies. So establishingthe system on how to select
(06:38):
suppliers, how to improve them,how to improve them how to
follow up, and if necessary, howto exit the suppliers. So and at
the same time, they were doingthe same exercise at global
level at Campbell. So I was veryclose contact with them. Until
the salt, European business andthen I moved to paratus s group
quality environmental safetydirector for the 56 sites in 43
(07:04):
countries worldwide for 7000people. And there it's more like
really the most strategic partof quality, etc. So I think I
did, yeah, quite every levelwithin the quality organization
you can have. And I think thatmakes me also very good and very
well positioned to help othercompanies to towards the
(07:26):
sustainable quality stuff. Butso yeah, so that's bit by
creating quality, and we're anhour entity with the quality
assurance part of the job.
Aaron Harmon (07:39):
That's a quite quite a career, a lot of
exposure to things and a lotoversee in. So in the world of
quality. Sometimes it's hard toexcite people about it and the
value of it, it's easy to selllike innovation and new
technology or improve sales. Butwhen it comes to the word
quality, like how did workwithin your roles, and with your
(08:01):
role now, how do you motivatepeople to embrace quality
systems?
Bart Bosch (08:05):
You know, what it is? Really quality people are
very good at what we do in thetechnical part. But we are not
good at is in marketing andselling quality and
organization. I did tell youthat. When I left my last job,
my manager said but you knowwhat your biggest problem was
last year? I said no. Well,there were no quality issues. So
(08:28):
you did a very good job inpreventing things from
happening. But that was notreally seen within the
organization. And I was thinkinglike, what is Bart doing? And I
think that's a bit the problemwe have within within quality.
We are very good at what we do.
But we are not good in showingit within the organization or
what we do to prevent thingsfrom happening, and what our
(08:49):
positive contribution is to thecompany. I think that's the
there's always a tension betweenthe two like that quality
minister said, Well, I'll do mybest, but I don't feel
recognized and quality doesn'tseem to be a priority. And on
the other hand, you have flexknee like general managers,
CEOs, like said, they say, Well,what what's actually quality
(09:10):
doing here? But they don't Idon't see any contribution from
them. Actually, they're moreseen as a cost. Yeah. And
there's two voices out hereconstantly, actually. And that's
a bit the issue, I guess, wherequality is in at the moment.
Aaron Harmon (09:27):
One of the terms I've heard is cost of
compliance, to refer to quality.
Unknown (09:32):
Yeah, yeah. But then you're not well, I'll tell you a
story. So one of my customers,the general manager came to me
said but we are growing but wedon't feel that our quote system
is growing with us. So actually,they're not really contributing
to the company. So we needsomeone to help us upgrading the
quality system because ourQuality Manager, you got it from
(09:53):
school, she doesn't have theexperience and need the
knowledge to do that. So if wecould call a greater as well
that would be fine. Yeah, I cando that no problem. And then
that's when talking to thequality manager. I said, but do
you know that every year I getthe question like, What are you
doing here? And what's yourcontribution to the company? So
you see these two voices camethere as well. And then I asked
(10:17):
her, Okay, but what is yourfinancial added value to the
business? And that's a questionI often asked to people of
quality minutes like, well, thiswill add a financial value to
the business. Because as aquality person, you have to
understand that you're workingin an organization in a company.
And the main goal of a companyis to make profit, this way your
(10:39):
salaries are paid off that way,the investments are paid off,
etc. And in my opinion, everypart of an organization should
contribute to the financialprofit of the company also
quality. And a lot of qualitymanagers don't think in that
way, in a financial way. Butit's actually the way on how you
(10:59):
can change things. Because ifyou were seen as a cost, why
would they give you priority?
Yeah, you only a cost, you don'twant to be in a corner where to
cut all the costs are. So youhave to find a way on how to get
out of there. So what we did is,we looked at the mission and
vision of the company, then fromthere on, we looked at the
(11:20):
quality policy, because in thatway, you really say, Okay, if
you can make your quality policyto that vision and mission of
your company, you already canshow the organization. Well,
this is our position, this isour role within the company. And
this is how our department ourquality is contributing to the
vision and the mission of thecompany. Yeah, so this is what
(11:41):
we do to help getting there inthe future. So I think that
that's already one importantpart on how to position yourself
as quality and make it moreimportant within your
organization. Now, from thequality policy, you go actually
to your objectives and yourKPIs, etc. And then we use the
(12:04):
KPIs like complaint rate, right?
First time, overdue, improvedaction rate, and all that kind
of stuff, to demonstrate addedvalue to the business. So we
said, okay, what are your maindrivers for complaints? For
instance? Yes, it okay, this,okay, what's your corrective
action, you're gonna take herimprovement action. Okay, we're
(12:25):
gonna do this. You saw over timethat she reduced complaints with
60%. of complaint rate. Butthere's a so far, they only look
at the absolute number ofcomplaints, and it was not
really decreasing, but sales wasgoing up, said, yeah, you can
show this to your generalmanager, you reduced your
complaint rate with 60%. That'syour contribution already to the
(12:48):
company. Yeah, you have morehappy customers. And these happy
customers will buy moreproducts. And it will add on to
the profit of the company andlove. And likewise, it will
continue. So in that way, we useactually two quality KPIs to
demonstrate how we added valueto the business. But I also
(13:09):
wanted to go to how can youdemonstrate you have added
financial value to the business?
And that's where we looked at?
What are the improvement actionsyou have to take? What's the
cost? And what's the return oninvestment. On that one, if you
can say, well, this as return oninvestment is improvement action
of three years, business wiseinvestment of three years is a
(13:30):
no brainer, everybody, everybodywill do that. But from that
moment on, you won't have thatannual ongoing cost any more
from that type of performance orcomplaints. And in that way, you
increase the profit of theorganization. So if you look at
where you position yourself,that you'll get your quality
policy, and you can demonstratethe return on investment of your
(13:51):
improvement actions. You havethese two elements, you can go
to senior management, and say,Well, this is our contribution
to the company. This is how weoperate within the company and
this our contribution and ourway of working but also
financially. And if you speakthe language of money, which is
in my opinion, the mostimportant language within the
(14:12):
business, then they will listento you. And then you will become
a priority again. It was with myfirst customer, we did this. We
keep repeating it at othercustomers as well. Because it's
really a powerful tool. If youreally can demonstrate your
financial added value to thebusiness. They will listen to
you.
Aaron Harmon (14:31):
Yeah, it's it's definitely a way of identifying
what's in it for them and how doyou correct and then also, is it
a way of instead of puttingquality in the corner of cost?
Is it a way of putting likecomplaints in the corner of
cost,
Bart Bosch (14:46):
if that makes sense.
Quality is doing better tomorrowthan today? Yeah, that that's
for me quality. So if you havecomplaints nonconformances they
are actually input for yourcontinuous improve One cycle,
yeah, for doing better tomorrowthan today. If you can make that
happen, and it's not thatthere's not really see complaint
(15:06):
seen as a cost, but as a meansfor continuous improvement, and
if you can then translate it inmore efficiency and less costs,
and bring financial benefit tothe business, I think it is
possible to take quality totallyout of that corner of being a
cost, to be honest. But this howyou how you sell it, and how you
(15:29):
market within your organization.
We always look at quality assomething negative. Most of the
times like no performances andcomplaints and people not doing
the things you want them to doand audit no performances and
things not going well. And Ithink we have to look at the
positive side on what qualitycan contribute. And then I think
(15:51):
it's more easy to get out ofthat corner of being a cost.
That makes sense. So it has
Aaron Harmon (15:59):
like a, just a side I'm looking at, there's a
microphone cord in front of methat hooks up to the mic to
recording. And on here it sayshigh quality microphone cable. I
looked down at that as you are.
What if that said low qualitymicrophone cable? I probably
wouldn't use it. Because as acustomer, no.
Unknown (16:19):
You would replace it.
It's also marketing yourproduct. Of course,
Aaron Harmon (16:25):
whoever this company is put on here high
quality.
Bart Bosch (16:29):
Yeah, I don't think any company will say well, we
have a low quality cable foryou. So it's
Aaron Harmon (16:36):
so it would be it's stupid. Yeah, it was. Now
we'll take a quick break to hearfrom one of our sponsors.
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(17:05):
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that SD bio.org. Now back to theshow.
Aaron Harmon (17:25):
We still have tons of problems in the world of
quality, though. So I look atthe weekly FDA warning letters
and I see what's going on outthere. i You see things going on
in the news. Why are we stillhaving problems? We've got so
much advancement in qualityscience. Do you have any idea
what's why companies are stillstruggling in this space?
Bart Bosch (17:45):
I think it's like I said, in a lot of companies,
growth is still seen in adifferent way than we would like
to have it seen within as aquality department. Like I said,
it's often seen as a cost and anecessary evil. And just make
sure that you pass all theaudits, I think that might be
(18:06):
part of the problem. And butit's also about a quality
culture, I guess, making peopleaware what their contribution is
to a quality product. People arenot always aware of that some a
lot of people say I'm just doingthe job. No, it's making people
aware what the impact is on thequality of the product you're
(18:28):
making, and what the effect canbe. And I think there's still a
lot of job to do. For instance,when I have to audit, for
instance, raw material supplier,I always try to bring me a
product where their ingredientis used in. Yeah. So I can say,
well, what you make is actuallypart of this product. If
(18:48):
something goes wrong with yourproduct, if something goes wrong
over here, it will have animpact on this product. And it's
making people more aware of theimpact they can have actually on
quality of a product. Because Ithink a lot of people are not
aware of that.
Aaron Harmon (19:06):
That's a very good visual way to show that value.
Bart Bosch (19:09):
Yeah, it's people think, Well, I'm just yet, for
instance, people often think,Well, I'm just an operator doing
my job. No, you're not just anoperator doing your job. You are
someone who is actually makingan essential part of something
bigger. And to that bigger,there's for instance, a brand
connected to that one. Yeah, soactually you having direct
(19:30):
impact on the value of thatbrand. If you know that your
product that you make is part ofa bigger product. Are you happy
to tell your family have itconsumed or eaten or have it
used that will you feel safewith the product you make? Or
you say well, well actually Idon't care well then you don't
care, for instance, about safetyof your products. So I think
(19:54):
it's making people aware of theimpact of and quality of food
safety is I think veryimportant. and really make it
visual, make it stick, show thewhere products are used for how
it's connected to how many. Andif you're making finished
product, just show them how manyyou sell, and how big the sales
is, and how many people areconsuming it, that they know,
(20:17):
okay, if something goes wrong,it's that many people that are
impacted. So I think it has tobe more meat visual and make it
stick and make people aware oftheir impact on quality and food
safety.
Aaron Harmon (20:32):
Visual is so powerful, but one thing that
I've learned is if I try tocommunicate a message, and I use
PowerPoint, or, you know, sitthere and verbally describe it,
I've gone to the lengths oflike, showing that this process
can be improved at this ratewith this kind of cost
reduction. And I still couldn'twin people over with my
PowerPoints. When I sent peopleto a facility that was doing the
(20:53):
same process, which followed myvision, that was enough to solve
them. Because they were able tosee it themselves, instead of
just looking at my slides and belike, okay, you know, in this
table, you're saying this, butwhat's it really looked like?
Unknown (21:06):
Yeah, well, it's it's make it visual and visualize to
people that they betterunderstand what it's all about
what the impact is. It's noteasy to do. Yeah, but just give
it to them and said, Do you likethis product? Yeah, okay, well,
your product that you make ispart of this. Yeah, of of the
product you like, you're part ofthis you are to what you're
(21:28):
doing has a direct impact on thequality of this product that you
like, or your sister or yourkids or your children, or your
mom and dad. So your friends,you know, it's it's make it
personal, make it stick forthese people. And I think they
will get more engaged in thequality part of their job. And
(21:48):
in my opinion, if if every rolewithin a company does a quote,
this job, or the quality of thisproduct in the end as well. But
then everybody has to do aqualitative job, and has to be
aware how they can do it in aqualitative way and be engaged
to it and be committed to it tomake a good product.
Aaron Harmon (22:09):
So do you see the role of someone who is leading a
quality management system,partly as a role of motivation,
Bart Bosch (22:16):
motivation, and helping people to do a good
quality job? It's what I said inthe beginning as well. It's
quality is not here to oldquality, it's there to
facilitate quality. Everybodyhas to do a quality job. And I
think it's the role of somebodywho leads the quality department
to to help people do a goodquality job. Yeah. I can tell
(22:38):
you like, when I had to revertor quality system at my first
company, I went through theprocess owners said, Okay, can
you put in a flowchart whatyou're doing here? And if you
cannot do that, think again,what you're doing here? Yeah.
Then they looked very confusedto me. said, Yeah, but I mean,
if you cannot put in aflowchart, what you're doing
here, you have to think again,what I'm doing here, because I'm
just asking you put in aflowchart, every step of the
(23:01):
process, you do because you havea process, but you're doing it,
it's in a charge and purchasing.
It's in engineering, quality,name it, they really wrote the
process charts and flowcharts.
And then I said, Okay, now youhave to think on how you're
going to measure if your processis working? Well, yes or no? So
actually, what I was asking themis actually, can you come up
(23:22):
with a performance indicator ofyour process? To see if it
works, yes or no. And in thatway, they became totally owner
of their own procedure, becausethat flowchart was actually the
procedure, that what they did inthe department, and they could
measure it. So now you know thatif it's working well, yes or no,
and it's not going in the rightdirection, you can look in your
(23:43):
flowchart and see which processthat is not working well. And
you can work on that if you canimprove that step to make sure
that your performance indicatorsgoing back in right direction,
again, to the approach is goingwell again. And in that way,
they became total owner of theirown procedures. So that's what
we did over there. Yeah, I likethat.
Aaron Harmon (24:04):
Maybe a different way of looking at that I had a
VP of a research organization,how these breakout meetings with
our scientists. And in one ofthose sessions, he asked us, How
do you make money for thecompany? And an r&d
organization? I had alwaysviewed this r&d was a spent,
like, we spent money you putmoney into us and we would give
(24:24):
you products eventually. Butwhat I had to like boil it down
to on a daily activity, how do Igenerate money for the company
and r&d group? It reshaped how Ithought so I then thought, Okay,
I conducted these studies in thelab, they have to be conducted
if they were conductedelsewhere, it would cost this
much. So if I cut my operatingcosts on this study, if I can do
(24:45):
it without having to repeat itas much, if I can do more
studies a year, then I'm drivingvalue inside the organization.
And that gave me an easier wayto communicate why I should stay
employed and why I added valueand why our r&d group was
important. Yeah. Yeah, samething and quality. It's what
you're saying?
Unknown (25:05):
Well, when I asked her my first customers well to the
quality minutes, what's youredit financial value to the
business? She can look like. ButI make sure that the quality
that leaves the factory aregood. And we don't receive
complaints. Yeah. And in thatway, actually, if you don't have
to manage complaints, that's nota cost for the company. Set.
Yeah. But execute. That's whatyou paid for already. Yeah.
(25:29):
You're still a cost. You're notany financial value to the
business, you're still seen as acost by just doing your job?
Yeah, yeah. So I triggered okay,how can you add financial value
to the business and not say,Well, I make sure we use
complaints? Because that's yourjob. That's what you paid for
anyway, you're not addingfinancial value? Yeah, I think
(25:51):
you have to go one step further.
To do that. And I think, withwhat I did, actually, with
having the process of underwritetheir own processes is, okay,
how can we make the process moreefficient? Yeah. So if you do
internal audits, and you go tothat process chart and say,
Okay, why do you do this step?
(26:11):
Because I always did it thatway. Well, but what's the added
value of that step? Actually,there is no, skip it. Yeah. And
your process will be moreefficient. And in that way, you
can say, well, you to ourquality tools and techniques
like internal audit, we madeprocesses, or also administered
processes more efficient. And wecan do more of them in a shorter
(26:32):
time. And that's how we can addfinancial value to the business.
So it's using your quality toolsand techniques in a different
way in a different mindset, andtransfer what you do and what's
the Edit financial value to thebusiness? And like I said, it's
preventing complaints fromhappening. Well, that's what
you're paid for already. Yeah,that's not adding financial
(26:52):
value. Yes, to go one stepfurther. And I think different
way of thinking, towardscreating value, and also
financial value.
Aaron Harmon (27:03):
It's very much a shift of thought pattern. Yeah,
just one that I myself, I'm notvery good at, like just what
you're describing, I see myselfas struggling the same same way
as the cell quality, and theshow the the added value of it.
So your company now is this, oneof the services you provide is
to help go in and creatingsustainable quality, but then
(27:25):
also showing that added value.
Bart Bosch (27:27):
Yeah, we have three pillars within the company. One
is actually the one on onecoaching, consulting with
companies. And then we reallycan work on that sustainable
quality system. One on one withcompanies. Yeah, it's like, but
we want to have more structurein our company, you would like
to go for as in 1001 structure,not really for certification,
(27:47):
but really for the structure.
Can you help? Yeah, we can helpyou with that. No problem. But
you're looking at supply qualitymanagement, can you help us for
that part? Yeah, we can help youwith that on one on one. Yeah.
And then Chris is supposed toBlackboard message, just make
sure you have a good supplybase, that's actually preventing
issues from happening in yourcompany, because he was not good
Polish coming in, it'simpossible to make good product
(28:10):
coming out. So it makes qualityalso more sustainable in that
way. So that's one part isactually a one on one coaching
we do. The second part is prohave put customers supplier
audits, just to make sure theyhave a reliable supply base. And
we can use that as auditstandard and the audit tools, no
(28:30):
problem. But we make sure thatwe have that independent audit
going on at their supply just tomake sure they have sustainable
supply base. And the thirdpillar is something that we
recently started is an onlinecoaching program that really
goes through what we justdiscussed, it's it starts with
the mission and the vision ofthe company, and how you can
make your quality policy out ofit, how you can translate it in
(28:54):
the real true quality KPIs, andhow you can demonstrate your
edit financial value to thebusiness. And that's an online
coaching program, you have to dosome own work. So you have to
send in things to us, we cangive you feedback, because we
really want you to succeed inproviding that information that
you add financial value to thebusiness. So that's a coaching
(29:15):
program online that we recentlycreated.
Aaron Harmon (29:21):
Awesome. So if someone is listening to this,
they want to get a hold of youand go through the coaching
program or connect up forsupplier audits or do the one on
one coaching,
Unknown (29:29):
how do they reach out to you, they can easily send me
an email but at Fleet x.com I'llpick up the email, I think
that's the most easiest way togo forward. We have customers
all over the world withdifferent time zones that might
be difficult. So just send me anemail but@citrix.com And I'll
get in contact with you just tosee how we can move forward.
Aaron Harmon (29:53):
Awesome and I will include that in the show notes
to make it easy for people tonavigate to so that they can
click on your email address. andhow that right there? Yeah,
Unknown (30:01):
top. Thank you.
Aaron Harmon (30:03):
Well, thank you, Bert. This was great. I learned
a lot and I think our listenerswill too.
Unknown (30:08):
Good Hope too, because yeah, it's my thing is like,
I'll share my knowledge andexperience to help other
companies improve quality. And Ithink this is an excellent way
of doing this. So thank you verymuch for giving me this
opportunity.
Aaron Harmon (30:22):
I appreciate having you on here was great.
Leslie Cooper (30:26):
This episode of Inside Out quality was brought
to you thanks to South Dakotabiotech Association. If you have
a story you'd like us to exploreand share. We'd love to hear
from you. Submit your ideas byvisiting www.sd bio.org
Aaron Harmon (30:41):
You've made it this far in the episode. Thanks
for listening
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