May 4, 2023 • 22 mins
The value of the CRC credential is a common topic of conversation on Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, and Ryan Bruce, Director of Client Solutions at New York Life Insurance knows it well.
At New York Life Insurance, Ryan has worked in long-term disability claims, stay-at-work programs, and now his role is to tell the story of how the 45 CRCs on staff strive every day to help people navigate short or long-term disability. Ryan says the same disability accommodations that employers struggled with a decade ago are still challenges they're encountering today, and having a CRC in an organization can alleviate a lot of the uncertainty and help businesses support their employees in the best way possible.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pam Shlemon (00:05):
Hello and welcome to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling, presented by theCommission on Rehabilitation
Counselor Certification.
I'm Pam Schleman, executivedirector of C R C, and we're so
glad to have you here foranother conversation on the art
and science of RehabilitationCounseling.
Certified rehabilitationcounselors work with both
employees and employers toensure that necessary
(00:26):
accommodations are in place forall to be successful.
It's an expertise that New YorkLife Insurance values deeply and
led them to require the CRC forstaff working in vocational
services.
Ryan Bruce is the Director ofClient Solutions at New York
Life Insurance.
As a longtime CRC Ryan isdedicated to ensuring customers
and employers are prepared toadapt to any injuries or
(00:47):
illnesses that may affect anemployee's ability to work.
He believes CRCs are the onlyprofessionals educated to find
effective solutions for allinvolved.
Please enjoy our conversationwith Ryan Bruce.
So Ryan, how did you come to thefield of rehabilitation
counseling and what drew you tothe work of A C R C?
Ryan Bruce (01:05):
Yeah, so it definitely was not a straight
path in college.
I went to Penn State, doublemajored in criminal justice and
psychology.
Around that same time, I wasthinking about a career in law
enforcement, specificallyfederal law enforcement.
So I had an internship with theNavy, and even at that point
(01:28):
special agents.
So really nationalinvestigations required a
master's degree.
So I went to Penn State, triedto figure out what would be fun,
so I wanna get a master's degreeif this, this investigations
thing doesn't pan out like Iwanted.
Something that I'm reallyinterested in too.
Rehabilitation counseling, PennState had just a really
(01:49):
fantastic program.
They still do really goodinstructors that I had known
about before, and that was, thatwas really an important part
about trying to figure out whatto do is making sure that
education piece made sense too.
When I looked into the, thecontent, I thought that it was a
really neat combination of someof the industrial organizational
(02:12):
psychology classes that I wastaking, as well as that therapy,
the counseling aspects too.
Around the same time I had beenworking as a, a, a counselor at
a boys adolescent group home incentral Pennsylvania.
So it was really at that time inline with almost everything that
(02:34):
I wanted to do.
It's just one of thoseoccupations that you don't
necessarily know about until youstart researching.
And when you can start seeing,well, this ticks off a lot of
those boxes that I'm interestedin, that I'm doing right now
that I wanna do in the future.
So I thought it was a, a reallystrong program.
(02:55):
And after that, it's, it's allwritten in history, a really
good program.
I had a fun time.
I still tell stories about how Ilearned counseling techniques,
uh, in the program, how they'reuseful and how they correspond
to really not just individualone-on-one counseling, but every
(03:16):
day.
How does knowing aboutoccupations and limitations and
restrictions and essential jobfunctions and how all of that
comes together has just suchenormous, uh, ramifications to
businesses all around that Istill find myself going back to,
to school in those introductionsof principals daily basis.
Pam Shlemon (03:36):
And I have to tell you, not only with the guests
that we've had on this podcast,but as we talk to so many
different CRCs, hundreds andthousands of them across the
country, I haven't found onethat has come into the
profession organically.
It is through pathways likeyourself that you described, and
it really is either an educatorthat has, through whatever
(03:58):
discussions they've had, hasdriven that individual to the
field or through something likeyou've gone through.
It's just fascinating.
And I think the more and more weget this out there, I'm, we're
hoping more people understandthe profession of rehabilitation
counseling and start coming intothese programs organically.
We love the way the pathwaysthat everybody's coming in,
they're so passionate abouttheir experiences and moving
(04:22):
forward into this field, um, andworking with individuals with
all types of disabilities andchallenges.
So thank you for sharing that.
I appreciate that.
So you're currently the directorof client Solutions for New York
Life Insurance.
Can you walk us through yourcareer path and how you came to
your current position?
Ryan Bruce (04:37):
Sure.
So the quick story is I startedat our organization as a
long-term disability vocationalrehabilitation counselor.
We call them vocational coaches.
So my job when I started, whichis right out of my master's
program, was to try to helppeople who had been out of work
for more than two years usuallyfind employment.
(05:01):
And these are usually people whowere working but no longer have
that job to return to.
They've been out of work solong, maybe they've been
administratively terminated in alot of those conditions.
They didn't have any more jobprotection, so their company
moved on and they had no returnto work goals at that point.
So that kind of made sense foreveryone.
(05:22):
So we got to help people who hadwork experience try to find
something that they were able todo.
So it's a huge focus ontransferrable skills.
It's knowing transferrableskills assessments and it's
being able to bridge that gapbetween a limitation and
restriction.
Cause we don't really care abouta diagnosis.
(05:42):
We really wanna know what'skeeping someone from being able
to go back to work and thentrying to find an accommodation
that helps them to be able to dosomething that they want and
it's that, that they want, whichis really what drove me to New
York Life.
We have an amazing team that isfocused on working with
(06:03):
employees to realize theirgoals.
And I can tell you that I have alot of experience now talking to
some of my colleagues at otherinsurance carriers and other
types of organizations that Ididn't even know existed before
I started working here.
And there's some really highquality, very moral, very
(06:26):
ethical work that that is inplace to help people reach
return to work goals.
And I see CRCs every single dayworking through that.
From that experience andstarting the long-term
disability, I, I moved on tomanaging stay at work programs
and really helping to get ourslaunched and moving so that we
(06:48):
can be able to help keepemployees at work looking
proactively at disability waydown the road, trying to be able
to help to reduce that, which issomething that I think a lot of
employers were struggling with10 years ago.
And it's something that I thinka lot of employers are
struggling with still today.
Although now more people knowabout the A D A than avert,
(07:10):
which is awesome.
From there, uh, I was themanager of our vocational
program, New York Life.
We have about 45 certified rehabcounselors on staff who work
every day in different aspectsof state work, return to work
and reporting.
And now I am responsible forhelping to tell our story.
I like to say that my job is tooutline data people and things
(07:31):
in a different way now.
So try to understand what is thedata and the story behind data
so that we can develop betteraction planning and benefits
planning.
Where is the story behind thepeople?
How do we help actual peoplehere and how can employees
really trust us to have their, alarge portion of their benefits,
(07:52):
especially around disability?
And then things every day wetalk about policies and
procedures.
I have, uh, an extracertification.
I'm a senior professional humanresources too.
And I think that really helps tobe able to bring return to work
policy and procedure developmentto employers.
Now, I said I was gonna startwith a fast story and then I
(08:15):
went with a long story.
Pam Shlemon (08:16):
I think the long stories are important to share,
so thank you.
I appreciate you sharing that.
You talked about the importanceof transferrable skills in any
other profession, counselingprofession.
Do you believe that otherprofessions have that unique
skillset to work withindividuals to get them to their
employment goals?
Ryan Bruce (08:36):
I think the idea of transferrable skills as it
relates to finding, obtaining,keeping employment is completely
unique to the CRC community.
You have extreme ends where youhave industrial organized
psychology really trying to helpunderstand and start the
understanding with HR teamsaround essential job functions.
(08:58):
And then you have counselors andtherapists who might be working
with people in individual goals,but bridging that gap, that's
really always where I've seenthe C R C really come into play.
Bringing those two worldstogether for the benefit of
employees, for the benefit ofemployers is huge.
It's, oh, it's really being ableto identify so many wins for so
(09:19):
many different people is areally awesome part about CRC
life,
Pam Shlemon (09:24):
And I appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
You also have, think you said 45CRCs on staff, on your team or
through the ho Through the wholecompany.
Ryan Bruce (09:33):
At New York Life, we have 45 CRCs on staff that are
oriented around helping peoplewith their stay at work, their
return to work goals, and thenhelping the claims team to
really understand occupationstoo.
That's
Pam Shlemon (09:47):
A lot of CRCs and understand New York Life is a
very large organization, but um,to have 45 CRCs on staff is
wonderful.
Can you tell me how New YorkLife values that credential as
part of their hiring process?
Sure.
Ryan Bruce (10:00):
Uh, you have to have one so that guess that's the
ultimate value, right?
, right to work asa vocational coach to work in
vocational services, what wecall healthy working life.
Having a CRC is a mandatoryrequirement for hiring.
So we know what we get wheneverwe hire someone with A C P R C.
Pam Shlemon (10:18):
That's music to our ears to hear that quite a bit of
the role you and your team serveis in strategic solutions to
employer client needs.
How does the C R C provide theknowledge and expertise to
ensure both the clients andtheir employers see favorable
outcomes?
I, I
Ryan Bruce (10:32):
Think the, there's two parts when you're talking to
a prospective client about whythis business, why us being able
to tell stories around what wedo every day, what do our
absence managers, our claimsmanagers, our vocational
coaches, our nurses, ourdoctors, what do they do every
(10:53):
day and how do they worktogether?
Being able to have that storycentered around an employee is a
really important part aboutdescribing our value.
But it's also internally how wedescribe kind of our value too
on an individual level basis.
I get to work with all of thesepeople who all do an amazing job
(11:14):
all to support an employee onwhat they need to be successful.
And that's what we're focusedon.
That's a pretty awesome way tobe able to tell a story,
especially around a team.
So new cases, it's great to beable to talk about value and
what you're going to get, but ittruly is even more fun to be
able to talk about, Hey, youwant to hear a colorful story
(11:36):
about what your vocational coachand your absence manager and
your nurse together all workedon for one of your employees?
Let me show that to you rightnow.
It's so, from my perspective ofnot necessarily being one-on-one
in operations anymore, being anoperational manager, being able
to still be in that world todescribe that value is still
(11:56):
pretty fun.
Thank
Pam Shlemon (11:57):
You.
I believe storytelling is sopowerful in any business.
Um, and especially with the workthat you are doing, career
pathways and rehabilitationcounseling continue to grow,
including in the insuranceindustry.
For new CRCs coming into theprofession that want options
outside the traditional pathway,what is a good way for those
individuals to break into thissector in the field of
(12:19):
rehabilitation counseling,
Ryan Bruce (12:20):
Update your knowledge and practice talking
about transferrable skills.
Where does someone start?
How can you look at a resume?
How do you have a conversationwith someone about what they've
done in the past?
We work with a lot of people,maybe they've been a machinist
for 15 years, they've worked inwarehousing for 25 years.
(12:44):
They don't realize the kind ofskills that they are bringing to
maybe be a supervisor, maybe bea safety inspector, maybe move
into project management.
That background and thatknowledge on being able to be
creative and talk to peopleabout what they've done, talk to
'em about where their interestsare and be able to connect those
(13:05):
dots is really important.
And when you can tell that storyabout how you get a machinist
who's been out of work for twoyears, who's been doing it for
20, how you get them talkingabout what they wanna do and how
you make those first couplesteps to identify a potential
plan with them.
That means you're gonna bereally successful in interviews
(13:29):
and you're gonna be reallysuccessful in the job too.
And it's fun.
I mean, it truly is.
It is fun.
So we're working in, especiallyin the insurance world with
people on the spectrum ofdisability moving from, uh, I've
never been able to work to nowyou're talking to people who
(13:49):
have worked their whole livesand now they can't anymore.
It's definitely a differentworld.
It's a different area, it's adifferent conversation, but
everyone who, who does it that Ialways talk to, um, really is a
fan.
And I think it's a really funplace to start.
Just have to be ready to talkabout jobs, occupations, and
(14:12):
transferrable skills.
Pam Shlemon (14:13):
And we all know that today mental health is a, a
large issue.
And we also know that mentalhealth is a large component of
individuals with disabilities.
Certified reup counselors havethe knowledge and experience and
education, um, in that mentalhealth space.
Can you talk a little bit aboutmental Health First Aid and why
that training is a greatadditional knowledge source for
(14:36):
certified reup counselors thatwork with disabled individuals?
Yeah,
Ryan Bruce (14:40):
So Mental Health First Aid is an, is an awesome
organization and a training thatenables the trainees to be able
to be confident in approachingsomeone to ask, are you okay?
And then being able to be giventools in practice when that
person says, no, I'm not.
(15:01):
Okay, life is really hard rightnow.
To be able to come out of atraining equipped with that
knowledge reduces stigma in theworkforce.
Mm-hmm.
, it better equipsmanagers, HR business partners
to have good time limitedconversations.
I talked to a lot of managersbefore Mental Health first aid
(15:24):
training, and we talked aboutwhat do you do if someone says
they're not okay?
Well, I listen to them, howlong?
Whoa.
As long as they need.
Could be, could be an hour ortwo sometimes.
Are you a part of thatconversation or are you just
listening to someone?
And we're usually met with somesilence at that point.
(15:47):
I thought it was part of theconversation, but now that you
say it, I don't think that Iever said anything.
What did you do after that?
Well, I gave them an e a P flyerand we went our separate ways
and I never talked to themagain.
So we see a lot of that evidencethat's coming through with
employers who just don't know.
And as a rehab counselor, wekind of know how to have that
conversation.
(16:08):
We especially know how thatimpacts essential job functions.
So partnering with anorganization like Mental Health
First Aid at New York Life, wehave, uh, a, a couple, I think
we have five certifiedinstructors now where we go out
to our, our clients, we go outinto the community and we talk
about mental health First Aid.
We certify and train individualsin mental health First Aid, the
(16:31):
National Council of MentalWellbeing, and we enable them to
go back into their work sitesand have good conversations that
are targeted.
There's a very counselor likeagenda to a mental health first
aid conversation, a frameworkthat enables you to be a part
without diagnosing, withouttreating, to play a role in
(16:54):
helping someone to identifywhat's wrong and then help them
to find out what kind of optionsmight work in their life for
them in that moment, for thatissue that they're dealing with
to be successful.
Pam Shlemon (17:09):
That's a wonderful program and it just adds more to
that, uh, to that individual'sknowledge.
It sounds like your job bringsyou and your team to many
different organizations andcompanies and all sectors.
What are the unique challengesin today's world that makes the
knowledge of A C R C vital tocompanies across every industry?
There's
Ryan Bruce (17:27):
So much going on.
There's so much going on thatyou can never plan for.
It's all about trying to makeadjustments.
And when we're talking aboutinitially covid, Ooh, we have to
work from home.
Now what happens?
Like, how do you even get thatset up?
(17:47):
Well, we've been dealing withthat forever as a crc.
We know that's a greataccommodation in some cases
where it really might makesense.
We know how to get people set upand how to make sure that's
effective, make sure thatthey're productive, give them
what they need.
So I think the one thing that wealways talked about, if it was
(18:08):
our clinical nurses, ourdoctors, our vocational coaches
that we had on staff and wetalked about covid, we're always
kind of the questions aroundlike, how do you, like, how do
you think about your role now ina covid or post covid
environment?
It, it actually hasn't changed.
We're not, we don't deal withthe diagnosis when we're trying
to help someone.
We use empathy.
(18:29):
We wanna know where they camefrom.
We don't necessarily have toagree with them, but we have to
know how they got to us, why dothey need help, and where are
they coming from?
When we can know that, when wecan understand, I've said it
before, limitations andrestrictions.
So things, people that arekeeping people from being able
to do their essential jobfunctions, maybe permanently,
maybe temporarily.
(18:49):
We have to understand what thatis.
So if it's covid, if it'schronic fatigue syndrome, if
it's a broken leg, if it'sdepression or cognitive side
effects from medication, if wecan approach people and truly
understand where they're comingfrom, we can help them deal with
anything.
And I think that's a reallyimportant part about what a CRC
(19:12):
can bring to an employer.
We've worked with a lot ofemployers who have an ADA team
set up that have CRCs on themtoo, and they are fantastic to
work with.
Really working everyone in thesame direction with that
employee really has fantasticresults.
Pam Shlemon (19:31):
What would you like to see, you've been in this
profession for a while now.
What would you like to seeimprove or how would you elevate
the field of, uh, certifiedrehabilitation counselors?
Ryan Bruce (19:45):
I would love to see HR departments, especially with
larger employers, start reallyconsidering a C R C designation
in addition to S P H R P H R tobe able to identify the really
amazing work that A C R C canbring, especially to a leave
(20:06):
organization.
There is a lot of change goingon, paid family leave is
happening everywhere.
And as we look at increasedstatutory benefits, as we look
at different kinds of companyleaves that are coming online,
those all actually alsohighlight ADA needs.
(20:29):
You can't just look atadditional company plans without
also looking at how you'reaccommodating individuals.
And we know CRCs are the best ataccommodating individuals, so I
would love to see HR departmentsreally start to recognize more
the quality work that A C R Ccan bring to their internal
teams too.
Pam Shlemon (20:51):
Lastly, we'd like to ask everyone this question.
Many say that working as a C R Cis a calling.
What brings you joy in the workyou do as a C R C?
Ryan Bruce (21:03):
So at first it was those really neat stories that
you are able to impact theseindividual lives.
Uh, but then as I got more intomanagement, it really became
more about hearing what everyoneelse on my team was doing that
was quite frankly, always betterand more creative than anything
I was ever doing when I wasdoing the role too.
(21:26):
There are so many extremelytalented CRCs out there, uh, New
York Life for sure, everywhereout there.
Being able to listen and partnerand hear those stories, and now
I get to tell those stories tomake sure they resonate, to be
able to bring those to life indifferent ways.
I, I think telling those storiesand really being able to, to
(21:48):
advance the work that otherpeople have been doing.
That's my favorite part today.
Pam Shlemon (22:00):
Thanks again to Ryan, Bruce for that engaging
conversation.
If you have any takeaways orinsights on topics covered in
this episode, email us atcontact us@crccertification.com.
Be sure to subscribe to thisshow on Apple Podcast, Spotify,
or wherever you're listening tous today.
You can find us on Facebook,Twitter, and LinkedIn at CRC
(22:21):
Cert, and our website is crccertification.com.
Until next time, I'm CRCsExecutive director, Pam
Schleman.
Thank you for listening toInside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
Hello and welcome to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling, presented by theCommission on Rehabilitation
Counselor Certification.
I'm Pam Schleman, executivedirector of C R C, and we're so
glad to have you here foranother conversation on the art
and science of RehabilitationCounseling.
Certified rehabilitationcounselors work with both
employees and employers toensure that necessary
(00:26):
accommodations are in place forall to be successful.
It's an expertise that New YorkLife Insurance values deeply and
led them to require the CRC forstaff working in vocational
services.
Ryan Bruce is the Director ofClient Solutions at New York
Life Insurance.
As a longtime CRC Ryan isdedicated to ensuring customers
and employers are prepared toadapt to any injuries or
(00:47):
illnesses that may affect anemployee's ability to work.
He believes CRCs are the onlyprofessionals educated to find
effective solutions for allinvolved.
Please enjoy our conversationwith Ryan Bruce.
So Ryan, how did you come to thefield of rehabilitation
counseling and what drew you tothe work of A C R C?
Ryan Bruce (01:05):
Yeah, so it definitely was not a straight
path in college.
I went to Penn State, doublemajored in criminal justice and
psychology.
Around that same time, I wasthinking about a career in law
enforcement, specificallyfederal law enforcement.
So I had an internship with theNavy, and even at that point
(01:28):
special agents.
So really nationalinvestigations required a
master's degree.
So I went to Penn State, triedto figure out what would be fun,
so I wanna get a master's degreeif this, this investigations
thing doesn't pan out like Iwanted.
Something that I'm reallyinterested in too.
Rehabilitation counseling, PennState had just a really
(01:49):
fantastic program.
They still do really goodinstructors that I had known
about before, and that was, thatwas really an important part
about trying to figure out whatto do is making sure that
education piece made sense too.
When I looked into the, thecontent, I thought that it was a
really neat combination of someof the industrial organizational
(02:12):
psychology classes that I wastaking, as well as that therapy,
the counseling aspects too.
Around the same time I had beenworking as a, a, a counselor at
a boys adolescent group home incentral Pennsylvania.
So it was really at that time inline with almost everything that
(02:34):
I wanted to do.
It's just one of thoseoccupations that you don't
necessarily know about until youstart researching.
And when you can start seeing,well, this ticks off a lot of
those boxes that I'm interestedin, that I'm doing right now
that I wanna do in the future.
So I thought it was a, a reallystrong program.
(02:55):
And after that, it's, it's allwritten in history, a really
good program.
I had a fun time.
I still tell stories about how Ilearned counseling techniques,
uh, in the program, how they'reuseful and how they correspond
to really not just individualone-on-one counseling, but every
(03:16):
day.
How does knowing aboutoccupations and limitations and
restrictions and essential jobfunctions and how all of that
comes together has just suchenormous, uh, ramifications to
businesses all around that Istill find myself going back to,
to school in those introductionsof principals daily basis.
Pam Shlemon (03:36):
And I have to tell you, not only with the guests
that we've had on this podcast,but as we talk to so many
different CRCs, hundreds andthousands of them across the
country, I haven't found onethat has come into the
profession organically.
It is through pathways likeyourself that you described, and
it really is either an educatorthat has, through whatever
(03:58):
discussions they've had, hasdriven that individual to the
field or through something likeyou've gone through.
It's just fascinating.
And I think the more and more weget this out there, I'm, we're
hoping more people understandthe profession of rehabilitation
counseling and start coming intothese programs organically.
We love the way the pathwaysthat everybody's coming in,
they're so passionate abouttheir experiences and moving
(04:22):
forward into this field, um, andworking with individuals with
all types of disabilities andchallenges.
So thank you for sharing that.
I appreciate that.
So you're currently the directorof client Solutions for New York
Life Insurance.
Can you walk us through yourcareer path and how you came to
your current position?
Ryan Bruce (04:37):
Sure.
So the quick story is I startedat our organization as a
long-term disability vocationalrehabilitation counselor.
We call them vocational coaches.
So my job when I started, whichis right out of my master's
program, was to try to helppeople who had been out of work
for more than two years usuallyfind employment.
(05:01):
And these are usually people whowere working but no longer have
that job to return to.
They've been out of work solong, maybe they've been
administratively terminated in alot of those conditions.
They didn't have any more jobprotection, so their company
moved on and they had no returnto work goals at that point.
So that kind of made sense foreveryone.
(05:22):
So we got to help people who hadwork experience try to find
something that they were able todo.
So it's a huge focus ontransferrable skills.
It's knowing transferrableskills assessments and it's
being able to bridge that gapbetween a limitation and
restriction.
Cause we don't really care abouta diagnosis.
(05:42):
We really wanna know what'skeeping someone from being able
to go back to work and thentrying to find an accommodation
that helps them to be able to dosomething that they want and
it's that, that they want, whichis really what drove me to New
York Life.
We have an amazing team that isfocused on working with
(06:03):
employees to realize theirgoals.
And I can tell you that I have alot of experience now talking to
some of my colleagues at otherinsurance carriers and other
types of organizations that Ididn't even know existed before
I started working here.
And there's some really highquality, very moral, very
(06:26):
ethical work that that is inplace to help people reach
return to work goals.
And I see CRCs every single dayworking through that.
From that experience andstarting the long-term
disability, I, I moved on tomanaging stay at work programs
and really helping to get ourslaunched and moving so that we
(06:48):
can be able to help keepemployees at work looking
proactively at disability waydown the road, trying to be able
to help to reduce that, which issomething that I think a lot of
employers were struggling with10 years ago.
And it's something that I thinka lot of employers are
struggling with still today.
Although now more people knowabout the A D A than avert,
(07:10):
which is awesome.
From there, uh, I was themanager of our vocational
program, New York Life.
We have about 45 certified rehabcounselors on staff who work
every day in different aspectsof state work, return to work
and reporting.
And now I am responsible forhelping to tell our story.
I like to say that my job is tooutline data people and things
(07:31):
in a different way now.
So try to understand what is thedata and the story behind data
so that we can develop betteraction planning and benefits
planning.
Where is the story behind thepeople?
How do we help actual peoplehere and how can employees
really trust us to have their, alarge portion of their benefits,
(07:52):
especially around disability?
And then things every day wetalk about policies and
procedures.
I have, uh, an extracertification.
I'm a senior professional humanresources too.
And I think that really helps tobe able to bring return to work
policy and procedure developmentto employers.
Now, I said I was gonna startwith a fast story and then I
(08:15):
went with a long story.
Pam Shlemon (08:16):
I think the long stories are important to share,
so thank you.
I appreciate you sharing that.
You talked about the importanceof transferrable skills in any
other profession, counselingprofession.
Do you believe that otherprofessions have that unique
skillset to work withindividuals to get them to their
employment goals?
Ryan Bruce (08:36):
I think the idea of transferrable skills as it
relates to finding, obtaining,keeping employment is completely
unique to the CRC community.
You have extreme ends where youhave industrial organized
psychology really trying to helpunderstand and start the
understanding with HR teamsaround essential job functions.
(08:58):
And then you have counselors andtherapists who might be working
with people in individual goals,but bridging that gap, that's
really always where I've seenthe C R C really come into play.
Bringing those two worldstogether for the benefit of
employees, for the benefit ofemployers is huge.
It's, oh, it's really being ableto identify so many wins for so
(09:19):
many different people is areally awesome part about CRC
life,
Pam Shlemon (09:24):
And I appreciate that.
Thank you so much.
You also have, think you said 45CRCs on staff, on your team or
through the ho Through the wholecompany.
Ryan Bruce (09:33):
At New York Life, we have 45 CRCs on staff that are
oriented around helping peoplewith their stay at work, their
return to work goals, and thenhelping the claims team to
really understand occupationstoo.
That's
Pam Shlemon (09:47):
A lot of CRCs and understand New York Life is a
very large organization, but um,to have 45 CRCs on staff is
wonderful.
Can you tell me how New YorkLife values that credential as
part of their hiring process?
Sure.
Ryan Bruce (10:00):
Uh, you have to have one so that guess that's the
ultimate value, right?
vocational services, what wecall healthy working life.
Having a CRC is a mandatoryrequirement for hiring.
So we know what we get wheneverwe hire someone with A C P R C.
Pam Shlemon (10:18):
That's music to our ears to hear that quite a bit of
the role you and your team serveis in strategic solutions to
employer client needs.
How does the C R C provide theknowledge and expertise to
ensure both the clients andtheir employers see favorable
outcomes?
I, I
Ryan Bruce (10:32):
Think the, there's two parts when you're talking to
a prospective client about whythis business, why us being able
to tell stories around what wedo every day, what do our
absence managers, our claimsmanagers, our vocational
coaches, our nurses, ourdoctors, what do they do every
(10:53):
day and how do they worktogether?
Being able to have that storycentered around an employee is a
really important part aboutdescribing our value.
But it's also internally how wedescribe kind of our value too
on an individual level basis.
I get to work with all of thesepeople who all do an amazing job
(11:14):
all to support an employee onwhat they need to be successful.
And that's what we're focusedon.
That's a pretty awesome way tobe able to tell a story,
especially around a team.
So new cases, it's great to beable to talk about value and
what you're going to get, but ittruly is even more fun to be
able to talk about, Hey, youwant to hear a colorful story
(11:36):
about what your vocational coachand your absence manager and
your nurse together all workedon for one of your employees?
Let me show that to you rightnow.
It's so, from my perspective ofnot necessarily being one-on-one
in operations anymore, being anoperational manager, being able
to still be in that world todescribe that value is still
(11:56):
pretty fun.
Thank
Pam Shlemon (11:57):
You.
I believe storytelling is sopowerful in any business.
Um, and especially with the workthat you are doing, career
pathways and rehabilitationcounseling continue to grow,
including in the insuranceindustry.
For new CRCs coming into theprofession that want options
outside the traditional pathway,what is a good way for those
individuals to break into thissector in the field of
(12:19):
rehabilitation counseling,
Ryan Bruce (12:20):
Update your knowledge and practice talking
about transferrable skills.
Where does someone start?
How can you look at a resume?
How do you have a conversationwith someone about what they've
done in the past?
We work with a lot of people,maybe they've been a machinist
for 15 years, they've worked inwarehousing for 25 years.
(12:44):
They don't realize the kind ofskills that they are bringing to
maybe be a supervisor, maybe bea safety inspector, maybe move
into project management.
That background and thatknowledge on being able to be
creative and talk to peopleabout what they've done, talk to
'em about where their interestsare and be able to connect those
(13:05):
dots is really important.
And when you can tell that storyabout how you get a machinist
who's been out of work for twoyears, who's been doing it for
20, how you get them talkingabout what they wanna do and how
you make those first couplesteps to identify a potential
plan with them.
That means you're gonna bereally successful in interviews
(13:29):
and you're gonna be reallysuccessful in the job too.
And it's fun.
I mean, it truly is.
It is fun.
So we're working in, especiallyin the insurance world with
people on the spectrum ofdisability moving from, uh, I've
never been able to work to nowyou're talking to people who
(13:49):
have worked their whole livesand now they can't anymore.
It's definitely a differentworld.
It's a different area, it's adifferent conversation, but
everyone who, who does it that Ialways talk to, um, really is a
fan.
And I think it's a really funplace to start.
Just have to be ready to talkabout jobs, occupations, and
(14:12):
transferrable skills.
Pam Shlemon (14:13):
And we all know that today mental health is a, a
large issue.
And we also know that mentalhealth is a large component of
individuals with disabilities.
Certified reup counselors havethe knowledge and experience and
education, um, in that mentalhealth space.
Can you talk a little bit aboutmental Health First Aid and why
that training is a greatadditional knowledge source for
(14:36):
certified reup counselors thatwork with disabled individuals?
Yeah,
Ryan Bruce (14:40):
So Mental Health First Aid is an, is an awesome
organization and a training thatenables the trainees to be able
to be confident in approachingsomeone to ask, are you okay?
And then being able to be giventools in practice when that
person says, no, I'm not.
(15:01):
Okay, life is really hard rightnow.
To be able to come out of atraining equipped with that
knowledge reduces stigma in theworkforce.
Mm-hmm.
to have good time limitedconversations.
I talked to a lot of managersbefore Mental Health first aid
(15:24):
training, and we talked aboutwhat do you do if someone says
they're not okay?
Well, I listen to them, howlong?
Whoa.
As long as they need.
Could be, could be an hour ortwo sometimes.
Are you a part of thatconversation or are you just
listening to someone?
And we're usually met with somesilence at that point.
(15:47):
I thought it was part of theconversation, but now that you
say it, I don't think that Iever said anything.
What did you do after that?
Well, I gave them an e a P flyerand we went our separate ways
and I never talked to themagain.
So we see a lot of that evidencethat's coming through with
employers who just don't know.
And as a rehab counselor, wekind of know how to have that
conversation.
(16:08):
We especially know how thatimpacts essential job functions.
So partnering with anorganization like Mental Health
First Aid at New York Life, wehave, uh, a, a couple, I think
we have five certifiedinstructors now where we go out
to our, our clients, we go outinto the community and we talk
about mental health First Aid.
We certify and train individualsin mental health First Aid, the
(16:31):
National Council of MentalWellbeing, and we enable them to
go back into their work sitesand have good conversations that
are targeted.
There's a very counselor likeagenda to a mental health first
aid conversation, a frameworkthat enables you to be a part
without diagnosing, withouttreating, to play a role in
(16:54):
helping someone to identifywhat's wrong and then help them
to find out what kind of optionsmight work in their life for
them in that moment, for thatissue that they're dealing with
to be successful.
Pam Shlemon (17:09):
That's a wonderful program and it just adds more to
that, uh, to that individual'sknowledge.
It sounds like your job bringsyou and your team to many
different organizations andcompanies and all sectors.
What are the unique challengesin today's world that makes the
knowledge of A C R C vital tocompanies across every industry?
There's
Ryan Bruce (17:27):
So much going on.
There's so much going on thatyou can never plan for.
It's all about trying to makeadjustments.
And when we're talking aboutinitially covid, Ooh, we have to
work from home.
Now what happens?
Like, how do you even get thatset up?
(17:47):
Well, we've been dealing withthat forever as a crc.
We know that's a greataccommodation in some cases
where it really might makesense.
We know how to get people set upand how to make sure that's
effective, make sure thatthey're productive, give them
what they need.
So I think the one thing that wealways talked about, if it was
(18:08):
our clinical nurses, ourdoctors, our vocational coaches
that we had on staff and wetalked about covid, we're always
kind of the questions aroundlike, how do you, like, how do
you think about your role now ina covid or post covid
environment?
It, it actually hasn't changed.
We're not, we don't deal withthe diagnosis when we're trying
to help someone.
We use empathy.
(18:29):
We wanna know where they camefrom.
We don't necessarily have toagree with them, but we have to
know how they got to us, why dothey need help, and where are
they coming from?
When we can know that, when wecan understand, I've said it
before, limitations andrestrictions.
So things, people that arekeeping people from being able
to do their essential jobfunctions, maybe permanently,
maybe temporarily.
(18:49):
We have to understand what thatis.
So if it's covid, if it'schronic fatigue syndrome, if
it's a broken leg, if it'sdepression or cognitive side
effects from medication, if wecan approach people and truly
understand where they're comingfrom, we can help them deal with
anything.
And I think that's a reallyimportant part about what a CRC
(19:12):
can bring to an employer.
We've worked with a lot ofemployers who have an ADA team
set up that have CRCs on themtoo, and they are fantastic to
work with.
Really working everyone in thesame direction with that
employee really has fantasticresults.
Pam Shlemon (19:31):
What would you like to see, you've been in this
profession for a while now.
What would you like to seeimprove or how would you elevate
the field of, uh, certifiedrehabilitation counselors?
Ryan Bruce (19:45):
I would love to see HR departments, especially with
larger employers, start reallyconsidering a C R C designation
in addition to S P H R P H R tobe able to identify the really
amazing work that A C R C canbring, especially to a leave
(20:06):
organization.
There is a lot of change goingon, paid family leave is
happening everywhere.
And as we look at increasedstatutory benefits, as we look
at different kinds of companyleaves that are coming online,
those all actually alsohighlight ADA needs.
(20:29):
You can't just look atadditional company plans without
also looking at how you'reaccommodating individuals.
And we know CRCs are the best ataccommodating individuals, so I
would love to see HR departmentsreally start to recognize more
the quality work that A C R Ccan bring to their internal
teams too.
Pam Shlemon (20:51):
Lastly, we'd like to ask everyone this question.
Many say that working as a C R Cis a calling.
What brings you joy in the workyou do as a C R C?
Ryan Bruce (21:03):
So at first it was those really neat stories that
you are able to impact theseindividual lives.
Uh, but then as I got more intomanagement, it really became
more about hearing what everyoneelse on my team was doing that
was quite frankly, always betterand more creative than anything
I was ever doing when I wasdoing the role too.
(21:26):
There are so many extremelytalented CRCs out there, uh, New
York Life for sure, everywhereout there.
Being able to listen and partnerand hear those stories, and now
I get to tell those stories tomake sure they resonate, to be
able to bring those to life indifferent ways.
I, I think telling those storiesand really being able to, to
(21:48):
advance the work that otherpeople have been doing.
That's my favorite part today.
Pam Shlemon (22:00):
Thanks again to Ryan, Bruce for that engaging
conversation.
If you have any takeaways orinsights on topics covered in
this episode, email us atcontact us@crccertification.com.
Be sure to subscribe to thisshow on Apple Podcast, Spotify,
or wherever you're listening tous today.
You can find us on Facebook,Twitter, and LinkedIn at CRC
(22:21):
Cert, and our website is crccertification.com.
Until next time, I'm CRCsExecutive director, Pam
Schleman.
Thank you for listening toInside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
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