January 11, 2023 • 36 mins
Where can CRCs work in the private sector? It's a question that crosses many newly certified rehabilitation counselors' minds. Dr. James McNeil, PhD, CRC, NCC spent a good portion of his career working for Lowe's, Prudential Financial, and Amazon before becoming an educator.
In this episode of Inside Rehabilitation Counseling, Dr. McNeil puts it plainly: "wherever people with disabilities are, that's where CRCs need to be." Hear some of Dr. McNeil's insights into his time in the private sector and how CRCs can become "pioneers of the profession" to pave new career paths. From search terms to seek out in job openings and how to use your knowledge as a CRC to advocate for your expertise, we hope you enjoy this discussion.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Pam (Voiceover) (00:05):
Hello, and welcome to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling, presented by theCommission on Rehabilitation
Counselor Certification.
I'm Pam Schleman, executiveDirector of C R C C, and we're
so glad to have you join us forour third episode, exploring the
Art and Science ofRehabilitation Counseling.
We are often asked byrehabilitation counseling
students about the careeropportunities that await them.
(00:27):
While many end up working instate vocational rehabilitation
agencies, the CRC opens upnumerous career pathways and
provides abundant possibilitiesfor new and experienced
professionals.
Dr.
James McNeals, our guest forthis episode, and he is a firm
believer that many CRCs todaywill need to be pioneers in the
profession.
That means venturing out to newspaces in which the specialized
(00:50):
knowledge of serving individualswith disabilities is needed,
including in the corporate andFortune 500 world.
He himself has spent timeworking as a CRC for Amazon,
Lowe's, and PrudentialFinancial.
Just to name a few.
Please enjoy our conversationwith Dr.
James McNeil.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (01:05):
Dr.
McNeil, thank you for joining ustoday.
Um, so if we can get right intosome of the questions we'd like
to ask you.
And these questions are aroundthe work that you have been
doing in the field, um, the lastseveral years.
How did you get involved inrehabilitation counseling?
What drew you to this field?
Dr. James McNeil (01:21):
Yeah, such a great question.
First, let me start by, uh,saying thank you for inviting me
and allowing me to be a part ofthis podcast series.
I'm certainly happy to be here.
I guess I'll have to go back allthe way to my studies in, in the
rehabilitation counselingprogram at University of
Buffalo.
There I was, I was firstintroduced to rehabilitation
(01:43):
counseling.
I didn't quite understand whatit was.
All I knew at the time is that Iwanted to do some, some form of
counseling.
Uh, and to be honest, I thoughtI would just be working with,
uh, children and adolescentswith behavioral issues.
But it wasn't until I started aninternship with the New York
State Commission for the Blind.
And there I was introduced, uh,to working with adults with
(02:06):
disabilities, specificallyblindness and low vision.
And just from that experience of, uh, meeting with individuals,
hearing their stories, uh,providing them with vocational
rehabilitation services, justlearning more about it, learning
more about the a d a, justbecame very interesting to me,
me.
And at the same time, I saw howeffective I was, uh,
(02:28):
helping people overcome some oftheir challenges as it related
to, uh, their personal life andalso employment.
So that's how I was firstintroduced, uh, to
rehabilitation counseling.
And then from that point on, uh,I decided just to stick with it.
So much of my experiences havejust been revolved around, uh,
(02:52):
working with people withdisabilities.
And whether that be in thepublic sector or in the private
sector, that's just been themain focus is, is helping people
with disabilities, uh, secureand maintain employment and also
increase their independence.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (03:07):
We know that many folks come into the field,
not directly.
It's always a path that theywere introduced somehow to the
field, and whether it's like,like what you did through
internship or something, um, orthe professor I talked to.
But there's always, more thanlikely they came into it through
a unique process, not directlylike some other professions.
(03:29):
They know what they wanna be andthey're gonna go right into it.
So first of all, we wanna thankyou for your service into this
field as well.
Dr. James McNeil (03:35):
Oh, thank you so much.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (03:36):
When you, when you graduated, we know that
the largest, uh, employer ofrehab counselors, CRCs, are
state vo rehab agencies.
I know that you did some work at, at state VR agencies, but you
also then took a very differentroute than most people do.
And can you spend a little bitof time talking about your
(03:58):
experience working in state VRand then transitioning into the
corporate sector?
Dr. James McNeil (04:03):
As you know, I started, uh, at, with the New
York State Commission for theBlind as, uh, working an
internship From there, uh, aftergraduating the program and then,
uh, getting my crc, I decided torelocate, go back home, which
was Pennsylvania and work forthe Office of Vocational
Rehabilitation.
I did that for a few years and Ienjoyed it, uh, helping people
(04:25):
get jobs and, and things of thatnature.
But then, you know, kind of lifehappened, um, started a family
and, uh, my wife, she's from thesouth, we eventually decided to
leave, uh, Pennsylvania andrelocate to the south.
And as you know, you can'ttransfer from state rehab agency
to state rehab agency.
And so I came in the South, andthat's all I knew at the time.
(04:50):
So I, I, I decided to apply for,and then eventually was hired
and worked for the SouthCarolina Vocational
Rehabilitation Department.
I did that and started workingwith a different population,
individuals with, uh, mentalhealth conditions and substance
abuse and things of that nature.
But I had a short stint withthem.
I had a short stint with thembecause even while I was working
(05:10):
with a different population, thesystem was relatively the same.
I wanted something different.
I, I knew I wanted to just stay,you know, working with, uh,
individuals with disabilities,but I wanted to see if I could
just, you know, uh, uh, have anew experience or work in a
different setting while doingthat.
And so, uh, just a thought, arandom thought crossed my mind.
And the thought was, Hey, whatwould it be like to, instead of
(05:34):
helping individuals withdisabilities find employment,
what would it be like to helpindividuals with disabilities
help them while they're working,while they're on the job?
So, for an employer, um, Ididn't know anybody really, uh,
to have a conversation with.
Uh, it was just a risk that I, Iwas willing to take.
I went online to different, uh,job search websites, and I just
(05:58):
started plugging in keywords.
So I'm saying this on purposecuz it's very difficult, uh, to,
to locate within the privatesector a a job that's
essentially for rehabilitationprofessionals.
They're there, but they might betitled something totally
different than what we're usedto at a state rehab agency.
And so I just started pluggingin different words and, and, and
(06:19):
, and keywords and things ofthat nature.
And I came across something veryinteresting, um, with Lowe's,
Lowe's companies.
Now Lowe's is down here in thesouth.
They're headquarters, uh,they're in Mooresville, North
Carolina.
And they were actuallyadvertising for an accommodation
specialist.
There's a key word.
And I reviewed the jobdescription and it was very
(06:39):
similar what they were lookingfor to, to the skills and the
knowledge that I have.
And so I looked at it, Iapplied, and next thing you
know, they reached out to me.
I wanna say they reached out tome within hours, but I, you
know, they, it was probably aday or two, but once they got in
contact with me, they, theyreally, you know, wanted me to
be a part of their, theircompany.
(06:59):
And so they, they kind of reeledme in.
And that was kind of myintroduction to crossing over
from public to private atLowe's.
Their department is called theBenefits and Accommodations
Department.
And there, what I would do wasprovide job accommodations to
all of their employees, uh,within the US employees that
(07:21):
requested an accommodation orhad a disability.
So that was my introduction, uh,and that's how I got involved in
the private sector.
And I enjoyed it.
I was there for nearly twoyears, and then I decided Lowe's
was going through as a company,a transformation.
And so that, that kind of gotme, you know, kind of looking to
(07:41):
see what else is out there, uh,just for, just in case purposes.
And then I came across, um,another opportunity that was
with Prudential Financial.
How does a rehabilitationprofessional work with
Prudential Financial?
So when I was looking, again atthe different websites, uh,
searching for jobs, what theywere advertising for, uh, was a
(08:01):
rehabilitation specialist.
That was a key term too.
If you're listening, write thatdown.
Rehabilitation specialist.
And so I looked at that jobdescription and that job
description actually, uh, towork in that position, you
actually needed a crc.
I don't think anybody who, uh,worked for re uh, uh, Prudential
in that department as arehabilitation specialist, um,
(08:24):
didn't have a crc.
You had to have a crc.
So I immediately felt like thisposition, this, this role, this
department was created forpeople like me,.
And so, um, uh, went throughthat interview process, met with
fellow CRCs, and just starteddoing things that I could do,
you know, which all came down tohelping people who were
(08:48):
receiving long-term disabilitybenefits, um, find employment
because they still felt likethey could do something.
They couldn't do what they usedto do, but they still wanted to
do something because they feltthey have purpose.
And my job was to help them kindof locate a job within their
ability and, and, andcapabilities.
(09:09):
So I did that for, for a coupleof years.
And that was great.
Uh, made a lot of connections,uh, worked with tons of
employers from across thecountry because when you work
for a disability insurance, uh,agency, your actual client is
the employer, but you'reproviding direct services to
(09:29):
their employees.
But that introduced me, not justto working with, you know, uh,
different people with, uh,different disabilities across
the country, but also differentemployers after that.
Um, I did that for a while.
And next thing you know,something was happening in
America, not just in America,all over the world.
There was this company that wasgrowing and getting bigger and
(09:50):
just, uh, making a lot of noise.
And that was Amazon.
And Amazon was everywhere.
And as they were growing theirdisability and leave department
was growing.
So I looked into that and, um, Icame across, uh, another
position, and here's a title forthat.
It was called a SeniorAccommodation Consultant.
(10:10):
And I applied for that.
And essentially, uh, you, you,you know, they would want you to
just provide job accommodationsto their employees, uh, who work
in different settings, whetherthey work in distribution
centers or what they callfulfillment centers, call
centers, uh, stores, you nameit, Amazon is everywhere.
And they have almost everything.
My job was to provide thoseaccommodations.
(10:33):
So I did that for a few months,you know, that seemed, you know,
I, I, I knew how to do that andI felt very comfortable doing
that.
And I, and I felt like I coulddo it.
It was just second nature, uh,just because of my tr my
education and training prior tothat point.
And so I wanted something alittle bit more challenging, and
there was, there was room forthat.
And so I eventually left far asbeing a senior accommodation
(10:55):
consultant to accepting a rolecalled a, um, compliance
consultant within the Disabilityand Leaves organization.
And what did that entail in thatrole that required me to manage
all of the disability and leavepolicies for the us?
So we're, we're talking about ad a policy for Amazon, F M L A
policy for Amazon.
(11:16):
Any trainings that were created,I would, uh, review those to
make sure that they werecompliant.
Um, and just in general, makingsure Amazon's policies and
process was compliant, not justwith federal law, like the ada,
but also state and local law.
You get into California incertain states where the state
law might supersede the federallaw.
(11:38):
And so you have to be mindful ofthat as well.
Much of my work there requiredme to partner with attorneys.
So then you have me who's arehabilitation professional,
crc, and then attorneys.
And there's a, there's a,there's a little, little
difference.
It's probably not a little,there's a significant difference
between how we view things andwork on things as a CRC versus
(12:00):
attorney attorneys.
And one of those things, I won'tget into it too much, but I
think it's important, is that weunderstand the ada, we
understand the law as a whole.
Um, that's what we were trainedin.
Attorneys.
Uh, not to say they don'tunderstand the a d a, cuz they
probably do, but much of theirwork, um, in decision making is
based off of case law, based offof those, those decisions from
(12:20):
those federal judges, you, youstart to try to, you know,
review your policy andprocedures and, and make
adjustments based off of thatcase law, where that's not the
lens that I work out of.
And so that was great because,uh, those attorneys viewed me as
an expert on the ada, on the lawitself.
And so we would collaborate andwe would work together, uh, to
(12:44):
strengthen our policies andprocess to make it more
inclusive for all instead of forcertain individuals based off
that case, you know, that wasreviewed.
So that's how I jumped over intothe, into the private sector.
And I loved it.
I made a lot of, uh, connectionsat the time.
There wasn't many CRCs in theprivate sector, but by the time
(13:05):
I left, there were a handful ofus.
There were a handful of us.
And, um, many of them I stay intouch with.
And I'm just gonna throw it outhere.
There are some that, uh, worksfor Google.
There's some that works for Metaor Facebook and that I'm friends
with.
And then lastly, there are a lotthat just works for, uh,
different disability insurance
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (13:23):
Agencies.
That is so important to hearyour trajectory of where you
started and how you kept movingin, building upon your career,
and moving from date VR to theprivate sector as you
demonstrated.
And I think it's also importantfor students and young
professionals to hear that statevr, like I said, is the number
(13:44):
one place that, uh, CRCs go tostart, but often they don't
stay.
And so CRCs and others don'treally know where to go next.
And I think you shut some lighton all these opportunities that
the CRC offers.
So the CRC with that credential,there's a world of opportunities
that you can, uh, use yourexpertise, your breadth and
(14:06):
knowledge of, of your skillset,um, and your expertise in
disability.
And take that really both theprivate sector, nonprofit, your
own consulting business,whatever that might be.
And I do wanna repeat some ofthe titles that you mentioned.
Cause I think that's important.
Benefits and accommodationsspecialist, senior
accommodations consultant.
And so people may not know someof this terminology and
(14:28):
compliance consultant, and theremight be others in there that I
missed, but thank you forsharing that.
I think that was reallyimportant.
Inclusivity and accessibilityshould be the norm and it's not.
How did you, uh, you know, whenyou were working on policies, I
know it's important for you tomake sure that businesses create
those policies that areinclusive and that
(14:49):
accommodations exist for all,not just a certain population.
How were you successful inbringing that to Amazon?
Dr. James McNeil (14:56):
I would say that, and this is, and this is
just my own experience there,that there, that there wasn't
just one way of doing it, butthere's, there's many ways and
there's many things that you cando.
And it happened kind ofgradually over time.
Um, and sometimes just when aproblem is presented, then at
that moment, you're kind ofactivated and, and, and looking
(15:16):
for a way to respondappropriately to the situation.
So I say all that to say, youknow, when I'm reviewing, when
I'm reviewing policies and, andprocesses, I have an idea.
The first thing I wanna do istry to understand the business.
What are they looking toachieve?
Okay, how are they looking tomove through these stages?
And in what ways are they tryingto do that?
There's no issue there.
(15:37):
A business says we wannastreamline it, wanna make it
faster, better, bigger.
That's all fine.
But there's another part of itthat's just as important in my
mind, always goes to, uh, makingsure it's compliant.
Is it compliant with these lawsand rules and regulations?
Because I have a pretty goodunderstanding of these
(15:59):
disability related laws thatreally plays a big part in me,
uh, when I review some of theseprocesses and policies and
saying, Hey, you know what, Ilike this.
I see where you guys are going,but I think it's, it's missing
something.
Or, or, or, or something shouldbe added, or this right here
(16:19):
that you're requiring allemployees to do, we should
probably take another look at itbecause according to the law,
certain employees with, withcertain disabilities, uh, are
not required to do X, Y, and Z.
Well, a person that has anobvious disability versus, uh,
uh, invisible disability, thelaw is very clear.
Is, uh, when it comes to, uh,requesting medical
(16:42):
documentation,, if it'sobvious, then we should kind of
refrain from doing that.
But if your policy states thatall employees, regardless of
it's obvious or, or invisible,uh, have to do that, then you're
gonna run into some issues.
And so having that ex that thatexisting knowledge of what the
law and these, and these andthese regulations state really
(17:04):
helps when you're taking a lookat these policies to try to make
them more, um, compliant,inclusive and, and just, and
just, uh, employee friendly.
Yeah, I think that's, that'smissed right there, is, are
these things employee friendly?
You know, does it show thesepolicies and process that you
(17:26):
actually care, um, aboutyour employees and that you're
making it easier for them to getthe assistance that they need?
Another thing that's extremelyimportant is having resources.
I cannot just rely on my ownmind or my own experiences, but
knowing where to go foradditional assistance, help,
(17:49):
information, accommodations thatI have not probably heard of or
know about.
Resources such as the jobaccommodation, network,
resource, resources such as Ibelieve earn, I'll put it like
this too.
And state rehabilitationagencies,, they are a
great resource, right?
So there's been several timesthat I reached out to them when
brainstorming with an employeeand their manager and trying to
(18:12):
figure out an appropriateaccommodation or a solution to
the, to the issue where we justcame to a standstill.
But because I knew about andworked it, uh, with and for
state rehabilitation agencies,that was one of the first things
that popped in my mind, reachingout to them.
So that's proved to be verybeneficial.
I would also say, you know,making an effort to value the
(18:35):
employee's perspective, actuallybringing the employee into the
conversation and saying,Hey, do you have any thoughts?
Do you have any ideas?
Uh, is there something in thepast, maybe you worked for a
different employer, maybe you,you, you ran into this issue
before, is there something thatworked for you that could
possibly help you Right now?
I think that's oftentimesmissed.
(18:56):
And I would argue that thatshould be probably the first
thing you do if you want to makea, uh, you know, your workplace
more inclusive and moreaccessible, is to start with
that employee.
Nine times outta 10, you know,changes are probably needed
where you are in that businessbecause of a situation that came
up because of a, an employeethat needed some type of
(19:18):
assistance.
That's usually the prompt.
So once an issue is, or aproblem is, is raised maybe by
the employee or the manager, agreat place to start is to go
back to the employee, have aconversation with them, get
their thoughts, see what mightwork for them or not.
And then if you aren't able togain any traction there, then to
utilize some of these resourcesand some of the, you know,
(19:40):
connections that you have, youknow, some of the people you
worked with that's in the rehabfield, or, uh, whatever it takes
really.
Yeah, there's a lot out there.
And I'm sure there's some otherpeople out here that says that I
do this and I do this, and thishas been effective.
Um, sharing that information,what worked for you and not
keeping it a secret, I thinkwould benefit rehabilitation
(20:02):
professionals as a whole.
So I try to do that a lotthrough trainings and webinars
that I facilitate and conduct.
And through my businesses, Itried to just get out some of
these things that worked, someof these u unique situations
that I dealt with on the job orwith certain individuals and
tell others in the field whatworked in this case so that they
(20:24):
can, that use it or get someideas off of what worked for me.
I
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (20:28):
Don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I
would assume that you wouldagree that CRCs need to be in,
in the private sector more doingthis type of work.
If you don't have thatknowledge, the laws, let's just
talk the laws for right now.
If you don't have that, you'renot gonna be able to support
that employee.
And really the value that youbring to the organization as a
CRC is so valuable, even thoughpeople don't see it, and
(20:52):
employers may not recognize it,but it is invaluable.
Dr. James McNeil (20:55):
We've, we've been as, as a C R C or as rehab
professional, we arespecifically trained on the ada.
Um, we are specifically trainedon disability discrimination.
Mm-hmm.
, jobaccommodations, federal, state,
local laws, uh, how to interact,uh, with individuals with
disabilities, right?
(21:16):
I don't, I don't know no otherprofession, not even in the
medical field where you spend somuch time learning about
disability etiquette in theproper ways to do things.
And so I guess one, one thingthat comes to mind is as far as
the importance of CRCs being inthe private sector, I'll just
put it like this.
(21:37):
Wherever people withdisabilities are, that's where
CRCs need to be.
Mm-hmm.
.
And so you can, you can quotethat and because I like how I
just put that where whereverpeople with disabilities are,
that's where, uh, CRCs need tobe.
And guess what?
People with disabilities work inthe private sector in the times
that we're living in, you know,covid and then workplace
(22:00):
injuries and things of thatnature.
There will be more people withdisabilities working in the
private sector.
And because of that, you'regonna need some people who, uh,
have specialized training toprovide assistance, vocational
rehabilitation assistance, thatit, it's not just, uh, I'm here
to talk to you or put you on theleave of absence, help you
(22:21):
receive short-term disability sowe can get paid benefits.
There's more to so much more toit.
And we have the skills, we havethe knowledge of skills to
provide a more holisticapproach.
So we're not just helping themwith, you know, people with
disabilities that continue pay.
We're not just helping themgetting time off they need from
work, we're helping them inother areas as well.
(22:44):
Work on the whole person mm-hmm.
, which helps themto be able to either stay at
work or return to work.
And I think those two things arereally difficult for people who
are not specialized, uh, in ourfield.
It's a very difficult thing forthem to do.
I wanna say this too, you mightget to this later, but I think
this is extremely important.
I'm going around the countrytalking about something called
(23:06):
disability management.
Mm-hmm.
disabilitymanagement is an important key
term that, that employers use,that private employers use.
Private employers do notnecessarily use vocational
rehabilitation, nonprofitdisability organizations, state
rehab agencies, we use thosewords, the words called
vocational rehabilitation.
But employers in a privatesector, they focus on something
(23:28):
called disability management.
And what that is, is that's whenemployers are trying to find a
way to manage disability in theworkplace.
They focus on, and it, it, itkind of involves three key
areas.
And that is pre, you know,preventing disability in the
workplace, returning to workafter experiencing a disability,
and then providing reasonableaccommodation.
(23:51):
One of the worst things, youknow, that could happen for the
employee is that they lose theirjob.
And then as far as the employerside, uh, one of the worst
things that could happen is themfacing a lawsuit, uh, due to
disability discrimination.
And having said that, it it, itbecomes really that much more
important to start focusing or,or thinking about getting more
CRCs in the private sector,working for employers, uh,
(24:13):
because we are trained in thoseareas, how to how to help
individual disabilities fromlosing their job and help
employers avoiddisability discrimination.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (24:26):
Do you think that there are positions out
there, just, it's just that wedon't know how to make those
connections and what to look
Dr. James McNeil (24:35):
For?
So you're exactly right.
There are positions out there,there are jobs out there for
rehabilitation professionals.
There are jobs out there forcertified rehabilitation
counselors.
Uh, in my experience, most jobpostings won't say hiring for
crc.
You really have to think outsidethe box.
You really have to use keywordsthat, that are similar to
(24:57):
counselor, rehabilitationcounselor in order to locate a
job that's specific to what youdo.
So that's why I make it a pointto, uh, try to get as many
keyword out there as possiblefor you to put in the field box
to search.
Hopefully it'll yield moreresults.
Uh, there's more, there's morekeywords out there that could
(25:18):
be, for example, uh, vocationalconsultant, disability
specialist, disability casemanager, human resources.
The reason why that's important,so, so there's human resources
specialist.
There's human resourcesconsultant.
Why is that important?
Nine times outta 10, that's thedepartment you're gonna be
working under.
When you work in the privatesector, when you work for the
(25:40):
employer, their departments arecalled what Human resources
department, what's in the HumanResources Department, benefits,
disability leaves.
And so that's most likely thedepartment you're going to be
working under.
And so a lot of times theposition might be called Human
Resources and Specialists.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (25:58):
I also think the profession is not well known
in the public sector, which iscertified re of counselors do,
um, which C R C is working on.
But there's also the issue thatemployers don't value the crc.
And I think just what you said,you can go in to any of these
positions with your credential,and while they, I'm gonna use
(26:19):
the word, don't value it, Ithink, and correct me if I'm
wrong, I think once you get intothat position and with any
position, you have to advocatefor yourself on your skills and
knowledge and what that bringsto the employer.
And I know CRC has to do work onto, to make sure that employers
recognize what the importanceand the impact of CRC can have
(26:39):
on that organization.
Would you agree or disagree withthat statement?
Dr. James McNeil (26:44):
I would agree with it.
Um, I, I think I would say it,it's, it is not so much that
employers don't value the CRC asmuch as they don't know about
the crc.
It's been my experience thatonce in my cases is I was hired
and started working andproducing for employers.
They saw me as really important,therefore, they seen me as an
(27:07):
asset.
They seen me as valuable, butprior to my arrival, the prior
to them bringing me on, it'svery easy for me to believe that
they just didn't know thatpeople like me with the
background existed.
And there's a ton of us.
So, so there's gonna be a lot ofpioneers.
There's going to be a lot of CRCPioneer.
That's another one I like.
Write that to write that downtoo, Pam, CRC pioneers,,
(27:30):
you're gonna be the firstbecause this is kind of new for
us, branching out of our comfortzone.
And instead of, again, workingwith employers, now we're
saying, let's work for employersas a rehabilitation
professional.
Chances are you're going to bethe first, you're gonna be the
first to do that, but you aregonna be so important because
(27:53):
the employer's gonna see howeffective you are.
And that's gonna open the doorfor other CRCs to work alongside
you for that employer.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (28:01):
What would you recommend to someone who may
be con consider leaving andgiving up their CRC today for
what may lie ahead in the
Dr. James McNeil (28:10):
Future?
Uh, the first, the first thing Iwould say is don't give it up
.
If you're considering giving upthe crc, I would say don't do
it.
Uh, don't do it because itseparates you from any other
healthcare professional.
Ooh, I like that.
I'm saying a lot.
This is a lot of, lot of goodstuff that I'm saying right now.
It's the CRC separates you fromother healthcare professionals.
(28:32):
So what essentially am I saying?
I'm saying that you are ahealthcare professional, but the
difference between you as ahealthcare professional and
another healthcare professionalis that CRC that is the highest
credential, um, within the fieldof rehabilitation that you can
achieve.
So number one, it's, it's justmeaningful itself just to have
it.
And two, uh, for you to work sohard and to learn so much to
(28:56):
achieve it, all of these thingsthat you learned and work so
hard for you actually get toapply in the field, in practice
and have it displaying.
The CRC says that either youknow what to do or you know how
to find out what to do.
And that's my take on it.
I would also say that it's justa matter of time before
businesses and corporations knowabout it.
(29:19):
It is not so much that theydon't value it, it's just that
they don't know.
And then when you get the wordout more, you start building,
uh, more relationships withbusinesses, then they start to
know about it.
And then once they know aboutit, they say, well, hey, guess
what?
It's important.
We want to, uh, create acampaign, to, to
(29:42):
entice CRCs to get more CRCs tocome and work for work for us.
It's happening.
I have many CRC friends that arenow working for places like
Google and Meta and Amazon and,and Prudential.
They're all over now.
They're spread out.
But the more people who start tothink outside the box, which is,
(30:06):
Hey, what do it be like to workfor an employer?
Then you'll take that risk.
You'll get higher, you'll beable to do what the employer is,
uh, needs you to do and go aboveand beyond.
And then it's going to, again,you're, you are the person
that's going to, uh, open thedoor and other CRCs are gonna
notice that other employers aregonna notice that.
And then the word is going to beout more and more and
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (30:28):
More.
I couldn't agree with you more.
And I think that we all have tobe pioneers in this effort.
You know, CRC is gonna take thelead and start, uh, as you know,
sitting on the CRC board thework that we need to do to make
sure that, uh, this professionis elevated and people
understand the work that isbeing done and the experience
that you bring and the impactand the return on investment
(30:48):
employer would have by hiringsomebody with your credentials
and skillsets.
And I think it's true also thatas a C R C, you have to advocate
for yourself as well and theprofession.
And I think that's important tothe employer, but also to the
clients that you serve.
Um, yes.
Cause that is so important thatthe clients understand the
background that you come fromand, and what experience you
(31:11):
bring to them is so importantbecause we want clients to be
advocating to get the bestquality services from the best
qualified individual.
So, um, a lot of folks, um, indiscuss rehabilitation
counseling is a pathway thatthey felt compelled to follow.
What so far has brought you themost joy in, in what you have
(31:32):
done so far in, in your work?
Dr. James McNeil (31:34):
Wow.
That is a, that's a greatquestion.
I would say it all boils the,whatever I, whatever I can
think, I'm thinking of manythings, but I, I think it all
would be grouped under thisphrase that is, uh, the
relationships that I've built,that I've established.
It's the relationships, therelationships with the employees
with disabilities, the jobapplicants with disabilities,
(31:57):
the employers.
And when I say employers, I, I,I want to describe what I'm
talking about cuz I'm, I'm notjust talking about the building,
I'm talking about managers,administrators, supervisors,
department heads.
The relationships that you buildwith them are so, are so
important because one, you arerelying on them to better
(32:17):
understand the job, theemployer's concern and the, the
employee's concerned.
So there's two, it's, it'ssometimes like when you work in
a private sector, it's not justabout meeting the needs of the
employee, it's also aboutmeeting the needs of the
employer.
That's very important.
Both things can happen.
I wanna say that it doesn't haveto be either or both things can
(32:39):
happen where you can satisfy theemployee and you can satisfy the
employer.
We have the skills to do that.
And so that has been one of themost rewarding, I'm gonna speak
plainly.
When you get to the point whereyou've helped an employee return
to work or stay at work,essentially they can come back
and do their job or a job that'ssatisfying.
You feel good about that, butyou, it is just as satisfying
(33:02):
when that employee's manager isalso happy saying, Hey, guess
what?
It didn't require us to changethe way we, we do things.
We, our pro our productivity orour rate or these things that
would cause the company to losemoney or lose customers.
You know, what the employer isconcerned about.
Yeah.
And that's okay.
(33:22):
That's actually a good thingbecause again, you can address
both as a rehabilitationprofessional working in the
private sector and when you canachieve both, um, it's like a
double the reward
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (33:34):
.
Sure.
It just, uh, represents thefootprint you leave behind and
how important the work is and,and the impact that you make to,
again, it's not just one, it'snot the employer, it's, it's,
it's everybody.
So, and I just wanted to addthat, um, you are creating a
self-study course under eUniversity talking about this
(33:55):
very much more detail, um, thatshould be coming out in June.
So we hope that, uh, people tuneinto that because it is
important.
It's got a lot of greatinformation if you're looking to
transition over to the privatesector.
Even if you're not, there's alot of good information, um, to
have on there.
So Dr.
McNeil, thank you again.
(34:16):
Again, we thank you for yoursupport and, um, look forward to
, uh, working with you on andother, on other projects.
Dr. James McNeil (34:25):
Yes, Pam, thank you for inviting me again.
This was awesome.
I had a great time.
I hope there was at least onething that, uh, someone can take
away.
But at the end of the day, youknow, um, there's a need for us
for CRCs in the private sectorand I'll, I'll, I'll be even
more specific.
There's a need for usrehabilitation professionals to
(34:47):
work for fi Fortune 500companies to work for mid-size
companies and small businesses.
There's a need and, and we cando it.
We already have the skills.
There might be some things thatyou, you need to learn, you know
, business skills or the, theway that, you know, how a
business thinks.
But there are trainings comingout and, uh, as, as Pam you
mentioned, there's a self-studywithin the CRC that's going to
(35:09):
expose you to that, some ofthese things that you need to
know.
So there's some things that,that, that are coming down the
pipeline.
But for the most part, if youare a crc, you have most of the
skills that you need already.
Pam (Voiceover) (35:25):
Thanks again to Dr.
James McNeil.
If there's a C or C or someoneyou think we should speak with
for this podcast, or maybe youhave a question you'd like us to
answer in future episode, let usknow by emailing us at contact
us@crccertification.com.
Please be sure to subscribe tothis show on Apple Podcast,
Spotify, Google podcast, orwherever you're listening to us
(35:47):
today.
You can find us on Facebook,Twitter, and LinkedIn at CRC
Cert and our website is crccertification.com.
Until next time, I'm CRCexecutive director, Pam Schleman
.
Thank you for listening toInside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
Hello, and welcome to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling, presented by theCommission on Rehabilitation
Counselor Certification.
I'm Pam Schleman, executiveDirector of C R C C, and we're
so glad to have you join us forour third episode, exploring the
Art and Science ofRehabilitation Counseling.
We are often asked byrehabilitation counseling
students about the careeropportunities that await them.
(00:27):
While many end up working instate vocational rehabilitation
agencies, the CRC opens upnumerous career pathways and
provides abundant possibilitiesfor new and experienced
professionals.
Dr.
James McNeals, our guest forthis episode, and he is a firm
believer that many CRCs todaywill need to be pioneers in the
profession.
That means venturing out to newspaces in which the specialized
(00:50):
knowledge of serving individualswith disabilities is needed,
including in the corporate andFortune 500 world.
He himself has spent timeworking as a CRC for Amazon,
Lowe's, and PrudentialFinancial.
Just to name a few.
Please enjoy our conversationwith Dr.
James McNeil.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (01:05):
Dr.
McNeil, thank you for joining ustoday.
Um, so if we can get right intosome of the questions we'd like
to ask you.
And these questions are aroundthe work that you have been
doing in the field, um, the lastseveral years.
How did you get involved inrehabilitation counseling?
What drew you to this field?
Dr. James McNeil (01:21):
Yeah, such a great question.
First, let me start by, uh,saying thank you for inviting me
and allowing me to be a part ofthis podcast series.
I'm certainly happy to be here.
I guess I'll have to go back allthe way to my studies in, in the
rehabilitation counselingprogram at University of
Buffalo.
There I was, I was firstintroduced to rehabilitation
(01:43):
counseling.
I didn't quite understand whatit was.
All I knew at the time is that Iwanted to do some, some form of
counseling.
Uh, and to be honest, I thoughtI would just be working with,
uh, children and adolescentswith behavioral issues.
But it wasn't until I started aninternship with the New York
State Commission for the Blind.
And there I was introduced, uh,to working with adults with
(02:06):
disabilities, specificallyblindness and low vision.
And just from that experience of, uh, meeting with individuals,
hearing their stories, uh,providing them with vocational
rehabilitation services, justlearning more about it, learning
more about the a d a, justbecame very interesting to me,
me.
And at the same time, I saw howeffective I was
(02:28):
helping people overcome some oftheir challenges as it related
to, uh, their personal life andalso employment.
So that's how I was firstintroduced, uh, to
rehabilitation counseling.
And then from that point on, uh,I decided just to stick with it.
So much of my experiences havejust been revolved around, uh,
(02:52):
working with people withdisabilities.
And whether that be in thepublic sector or in the private
sector, that's just been themain focus is, is helping people
with disabilities, uh, secureand maintain employment and also
increase their independence.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (03:07):
We know that many folks come into the field,
not directly.
It's always a path that theywere introduced somehow to the
field, and whether it's like,like what you did through
internship or something, um, orthe professor I talked to.
But there's always, more thanlikely they came into it through
a unique process, not directlylike some other professions.
(03:29):
They know what they wanna be andthey're gonna go right into it.
So first of all, we wanna thankyou for your service into this
field as well.
Dr. James McNeil (03:35):
Oh, thank you so much.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (03:36):
When you, when you graduated, we know that
the largest, uh, employer ofrehab counselors, CRCs, are
state vo rehab agencies.
I know that you did some work at, at state VR agencies, but you
also then took a very differentroute than most people do.
And can you spend a little bitof time talking about your
(03:58):
experience working in state VRand then transitioning into the
corporate sector?
Dr. James McNeil (04:03):
As you know, I started, uh, at, with the New
York State Commission for theBlind as, uh, working an
internship From there, uh, aftergraduating the program and then,
uh, getting my crc, I decided torelocate, go back home, which
was Pennsylvania and work forthe Office of Vocational
Rehabilitation.
I did that for a few years and Ienjoyed it, uh, helping people
(04:25):
get jobs and, and things of thatnature.
But then, you know, kind of lifehappened, um, started a family
and, uh, my wife, she's from thesouth, we eventually decided to
leave, uh, Pennsylvania andrelocate to the south.
And as you know, you can'ttransfer from state rehab agency
to state rehab agency.
And so I came in the South, andthat's all I knew at the time.
(04:50):
So I, I, I decided to apply for,and then eventually was hired
and worked for the SouthCarolina Vocational
Rehabilitation Department.
I did that and started workingwith a different population,
individuals with, uh, mentalhealth conditions and substance
abuse and things of that nature.
But I had a short stint withthem.
I had a short stint with thembecause even while I was working
(05:10):
with a different population, thesystem was relatively the same.
I wanted something different.
I, I knew I wanted to just stay,you know, working with, uh,
individuals with disabilities,but I wanted to see if I could
just, you know, uh, uh, have anew experience or work in a
different setting while doingthat.
And so, uh, just a thought, arandom thought crossed my mind.
And the thought was, Hey, whatwould it be like to, instead of
(05:34):
helping individuals withdisabilities find employment,
what would it be like to helpindividuals with disabilities
help them while they're working,while they're on the job?
So, for an employer, um, Ididn't know anybody really, uh,
to have a conversation with.
Uh, it was just a risk that I, Iwas willing to take.
I went online to different, uh,job search websites, and I just
(05:58):
started plugging in keywords.
So I'm saying this on purposecuz it's very difficult, uh, to,
to locate within the privatesector a a job that's
essentially for rehabilitationprofessionals.
They're there, but they might betitled something totally
different than what we're usedto at a state rehab agency.
And so I just started pluggingin different words and, and, and
(06:19):
, and keywords and things ofthat nature.
And I came across something veryinteresting, um, with Lowe's,
Lowe's companies.
Now Lowe's is down here in thesouth.
They're headquarters, uh,they're in Mooresville, North
Carolina.
And they were actuallyadvertising for an accommodation
specialist.
There's a key word.
And I reviewed the jobdescription and it was very
(06:39):
similar what they were lookingfor to, to the skills and the
knowledge that I have.
And so I looked at it, Iapplied, and next thing you
know, they reached out to me.
I wanna say they reached out tome within hours, but I, you
know, they, it was probably aday or two, but once they got in
contact with me, they, theyreally, you know, wanted me to
be a part of their, theircompany.
(06:59):
And so they, they kind of reeledme in.
And that was kind of myintroduction to crossing over
from public to private atLowe's.
Their department is called theBenefits and Accommodations
Department.
And there, what I would do wasprovide job accommodations to
all of their employees, uh,within the US employees that
(07:21):
requested an accommodation orhad a disability.
So that was my introduction, uh,and that's how I got involved in
the private sector.
And I enjoyed it.
I was there for nearly twoyears, and then I decided Lowe's
was going through as a company,a transformation.
And so that, that kind of gotme, you know, kind of looking to
(07:41):
see what else is out there, uh,just for, just in case purposes.
And then I came across, um,another opportunity that was
with Prudential Financial.
How does a rehabilitationprofessional work with
Prudential Financial?
So when I was looking, again atthe different websites, uh,
searching for jobs, what theywere advertising for, uh, was a
(08:01):
rehabilitation specialist.
That was a key term too.
If you're listening, write thatdown.
Rehabilitation specialist.
And so I looked at that jobdescription and that job
description actually, uh, towork in that position, you
actually needed a crc.
I don't think anybody who, uh,worked for re uh, uh, Prudential
in that department as arehabilitation specialist, um,
(08:24):
didn't have a crc.
You had to have a crc.
So I immediately felt like thisposition, this, this role, this
department was created forpeople like me,
And so, um, uh, went throughthat interview process, met with
fellow CRCs, and just starteddoing things that I could do,
you know, which all came down tohelping people who were
(08:48):
receiving long-term disabilitybenefits, um, find employment
because they still felt likethey could do something.
They couldn't do what they usedto do, but they still wanted to
do something because they feltthey have purpose.
And my job was to help them kindof locate a job within their
ability and, and, andcapabilities.
(09:09):
So I did that for, for a coupleof years.
And that was great.
Uh, made a lot of connections,uh, worked with tons of
employers from across thecountry because when you work
for a disability insurance, uh,agency, your actual client is
the employer, but you'reproviding direct services to
(09:29):
their employees.
But that introduced me, not justto working with, you know, uh,
different people with, uh,different disabilities across
the country, but also differentemployers after that.
Um, I did that for a while.
And next thing you know,something was happening in
America, not just in America,all over the world.
There was this company that wasgrowing and getting bigger and
(09:50):
just, uh, making a lot of noise.
And that was Amazon.
And Amazon was everywhere.
And as they were growing theirdisability and leave department
was growing.
So I looked into that and, um, Icame across, uh, another
position, and here's a title forthat.
It was called a SeniorAccommodation Consultant.
(10:10):
And I applied for that.
And essentially, uh, you, you,you know, they would want you to
just provide job accommodationsto their employees, uh, who work
in different settings, whetherthey work in distribution
centers or what they callfulfillment centers, call
centers, uh, stores, you nameit, Amazon is everywhere.
And they have almost everything.
My job was to provide thoseaccommodations.
(10:33):
So I did that for a few months,you know, that seemed, you know,
I, I, I knew how to do that andI felt very comfortable doing
that.
And I, and I felt like I coulddo it.
It was just second nature, uh,just because of my tr my
education and training prior tothat point.
And so I wanted something alittle bit more challenging, and
there was, there was room forthat.
And so I eventually left far asbeing a senior accommodation
(10:55):
consultant to accepting a rolecalled a, um, compliance
consultant within the Disabilityand Leaves organization.
And what did that entail in thatrole that required me to manage
all of the disability and leavepolicies for the us?
So we're, we're talking about ad a policy for Amazon, F M L A
policy for Amazon.
(11:16):
Any trainings that were created,I would, uh, review those to
make sure that they werecompliant.
Um, and just in general, makingsure Amazon's policies and
process was compliant, not justwith federal law, like the ada,
but also state and local law.
You get into California incertain states where the state
law might supersede the federallaw.
(11:38):
And so you have to be mindful ofthat as well.
Much of my work there requiredme to partner with attorneys.
So then you have me who's arehabilitation professional,
crc, and then attorneys
And there's a, there's a,there's a little, little
difference.
It's probably not a little,there's a significant difference
between how we view things andwork on things as a CRC versus
(12:00):
attorney attorneys.
And one of those things, I won'tget into it too much, but I
think it's important, is that weunderstand the ada, we
understand the law as a whole.
Um, that's what we were trainedin.
Attorneys.
Uh, not to say they don'tunderstand the a d a, cuz they
probably do, but much of theirwork, um, in decision making is
based off of case law, based offof those, those decisions from
(12:20):
those federal judges, you, youstart to try to, you know,
review your policy andprocedures and, and make
adjustments based off of thatcase law, where that's not the
lens that I work out of.
And so that was great because,uh, those attorneys viewed me as
an expert on the ada, on the lawitself.
And so we would collaborate andwe would work together, uh, to
(12:44):
strengthen our policies andprocess to make it more
inclusive for all instead of forcertain individuals based off
that case, you know, that wasreviewed.
So that's how I jumped over intothe, into the private sector.
And I loved it.
I made a lot of, uh, connectionsat the time.
There wasn't many CRCs in theprivate sector, but by the time
(13:05):
I left, there were a handful ofus.
There were a handful of us.
And, um, many of them I stay intouch with.
And I'm just gonna throw it outhere.
There are some that, uh, worksfor Google.
There's some that works for Metaor Facebook and that I'm friends
with.
And then lastly, there are a lotthat just works for, uh,
different disability insurance
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (13:23):
Agencies.
That is so important to hearyour trajectory of where you
started and how you kept movingin, building upon your career,
and moving from date VR to theprivate sector as you
demonstrated.
And I think it's also importantfor students and young
professionals to hear that statevr, like I said, is the number
(13:44):
one place that, uh, CRCs go tostart, but often they don't
stay.
And so CRCs and others don'treally know where to go next.
And I think you shut some lighton all these opportunities that
the CRC offers.
So the CRC with that credential,there's a world of opportunities
that you can, uh, use yourexpertise, your breadth and
(14:06):
knowledge of, of your skillset,um, and your expertise in
disability.
And take that really both theprivate sector, nonprofit, your
own consulting business,whatever that might be.
And I do wanna repeat some ofthe titles that you mentioned.
Cause I think that's important.
Benefits and accommodationsspecialist, senior
accommodations consultant.
And so people may not know someof this terminology and
(14:28):
compliance consultant, and theremight be others in there that I
missed, but thank you forsharing that.
I think that was reallyimportant.
Inclusivity and accessibilityshould be the norm and it's not.
How did you, uh, you know, whenyou were working on policies, I
know it's important for you tomake sure that businesses create
those policies that areinclusive and that
(14:49):
accommodations exist for all,not just a certain population.
How were you successful inbringing that to Amazon?
Dr. James McNeil (14:56):
I would say that, and this is, and this is
just my own experience there,that there, that there wasn't
just one way of doing it, butthere's, there's many ways and
there's many things that you cando.
And it happened kind ofgradually over time.
Um, and sometimes just when aproblem is presented, then at
that moment, you're kind ofactivated and, and, and looking
(15:16):
for a way to respondappropriately to the situation.
So I say all that to say, youknow, when I'm reviewing, when
I'm reviewing policies and, andprocesses, I have an idea.
The first thing I wanna do istry to understand the business.
What are they looking toachieve?
Okay, how are they looking tomove through these stages?
And in what ways are they tryingto do that?
There's no issue there.
(15:37):
A business says we wannastreamline it, wanna make it
faster, better, bigger.
That's all fine.
But there's another part of itthat's just as important in my
mind, always goes to, uh, makingsure it's compliant.
Is it compliant with these lawsand rules and regulations?
Because I have a pretty goodunderstanding of these
(15:59):
disability related laws thatreally plays a big part in me,
uh, when I review some of theseprocesses and policies and
saying, Hey, you know what, Ilike this.
I see where you guys are going,but I think it's, it's missing
something.
Or, or, or, or something shouldbe added, or this right here
(16:19):
that you're requiring allemployees to do, we should
probably take another look at itbecause according to the law,
certain employees with, withcertain disabilities, uh, are
not required to do X, Y, and Z.
Well, a person that has anobvious disability versus, uh,
uh, invisible disability, thelaw is very clear.
Is, uh, when it comes to, uh,requesting medical
(16:42):
documentation,
refrain from doing that.
But if your policy states thatall employees, regardless of
it's obvious or, or invisible,uh, have to do that, then you're
gonna run into some issues.
And so having that ex that thatexisting knowledge of what the
law and these, and these andthese regulations state really
(17:04):
helps when you're taking a lookat these policies to try to make
them more, um, compliant,inclusive and, and just, and
just, uh, employee friendly
Yeah, I think that's, that'smissed right there, is, are
these things employee friendly?
You know, does it show thesepolicies and process that you
(17:26):
actually care
making it easier for them to getthe assistance that they need?
Another thing that's extremelyimportant is having resources.
I cannot just rely on my ownmind or my own experiences, but
knowing where to go foradditional assistance, help,
(17:49):
information, accommodations thatI have not probably heard of or
know about.
Resources such as the jobaccommodation, network,
resource, resources such as Ibelieve earn, I'll put it like
this too.
And state rehabilitationagencies,
great resource, right?
So there's been several timesthat I reached out to them when
brainstorming with an employeeand their manager and trying to
(18:12):
figure out an appropriateaccommodation or a solution to
the, to the issue where we justcame to a standstill.
But because I knew about andworked it, uh, with and for
state rehabilitation agencies,that was one of the first things
that popped in my mind, reachingout to them.
So that's proved to be verybeneficial.
I would also say, you know,making an effort to value the
(18:35):
employee's perspective, actuallybringing the employee into the
conversation
Do you have any ideas?
Uh, is there something in thepast, maybe you worked for a
different employer, maybe you,you, you ran into this issue
before, is there something thatworked for you that could
possibly help you Right now?
I think that's oftentimesmissed.
(18:56):
And I would argue that thatshould be probably the first
thing you do if you want to makea, uh, you know, your workplace
more inclusive and moreaccessible, is to start with
that employee.
Nine times outta 10, you know,changes are probably needed
where you are in that businessbecause of a situation that came
up because of a, an employeethat needed some type of
(19:18):
assistance.
That's usually the prompt.
So once an issue is, or aproblem is, is raised maybe by
the employee or the manager, agreat place to start is to go
back to the employee, have aconversation with them, get
their thoughts, see what mightwork for them or not.
And then if you aren't able togain any traction there, then to
utilize some of these resourcesand some of the, you know,
(19:40):
connections that you have, youknow, some of the people you
worked with that's in the rehabfield, or, uh, whatever it takes
really
Yeah, there's a lot out there.
And I'm sure there's some otherpeople out here that says that I
do this and I do this, and thishas been effective.
Um, sharing that information,what worked for you and not
keeping it a secret, I thinkwould benefit rehabilitation
(20:02):
professionals as a whole.
So I try to do that a lotthrough trainings and webinars
that I facilitate and conduct.
And through my businesses, Itried to just get out some of
these things that worked, someof these u unique situations
that I dealt with on the job orwith certain individuals and
tell others in the field whatworked in this case so that they
(20:24):
can, that use it or get someideas off of what worked for me.
I
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (20:28):
Don't wanna put words in your mouth, but I
would assume that you wouldagree that CRCs need to be in,
in the private sector more doingthis type of work.
If you don't have thatknowledge, the laws, let's just
talk the laws for right now.
If you don't have that, you'renot gonna be able to support
that employee.
And really the value that youbring to the organization as a
CRC is so valuable, even thoughpeople don't see it, and
(20:52):
employers may not recognize it,but it is invaluable.
Dr. James McNeil (20:55):
We've, we've been as, as a C R C or as rehab
professional, we arespecifically trained on the ada.
Um, we are specifically trainedon disability discrimination.
Mm-hmm.
local laws, uh, how to interact,uh, with individuals with
disabilities, right?
(21:16):
I don't, I don't know no otherprofession, not even in the
medical field where you spend somuch time learning about
disability etiquette in theproper ways to do things.
And so I guess one, one thingthat comes to mind is as far as
the importance of CRCs being inthe private sector, I'll just
put it like this.
(21:37):
Wherever people withdisabilities are, that's where
CRCs need to be.
Mm-hmm.
And so you can, you can quotethat and because I like how I
just put that where whereverpeople with disabilities are,
that's where, uh, CRCs need tobe.
And guess what?
People with disabilities work inthe private sector in the times
that we're living in, you know,covid and then workplace
(22:00):
injuries and things of thatnature.
There will be more people withdisabilities working in the
private sector.
And because of that, you'regonna need some people who, uh,
have specialized training toprovide assistance, vocational
rehabilitation assistance, thatit, it's not just, uh, I'm here
to talk to you or put you on theleave of absence, help you
(22:21):
receive short-term disability sowe can get paid benefits.
There's more to so much more toit.
And we have the skills, we havethe knowledge of skills to
provide a more holisticapproach.
So we're not just helping themwith, you know, people with
disabilities that continue pay.
We're not just helping themgetting time off they need from
work, we're helping them inother areas as well.
(22:44):
Work on the whole person mm-hmm.
work or return to work.
And I think those two things arereally difficult for people who
are not specialized, uh, in ourfield.
It's a very difficult thing forthem to do.
I wanna say this too, you mightget to this later, but I think
this is extremely important.
I'm going around the countrytalking about something called
(23:06):
disability management.
Mm-hmm.
term that, that employers use,that private employers use.
Private employers do notnecessarily use vocational
rehabilitation, nonprofitdisability organizations, state
rehab agencies, we use thosewords, the words called
vocational rehabilitation.
But employers in a privatesector, they focus on something
(23:28):
called disability management.
And what that is, is that's whenemployers are trying to find a
way to manage disability in theworkplace.
They focus on, and it, it, itkind of involves three key
areas.
And that is pre, you know,preventing disability in the
workplace, returning to workafter experiencing a disability,
and then providing reasonableaccommodation.
(23:51):
One of the worst things, youknow, that could happen for the
employee is that they lose theirjob.
And then as far as the employerside, uh, one of the worst
things that could happen is themfacing a lawsuit, uh, due to
disability discrimination.
And having said that, it it, itbecomes really that much more
important to start focusing or,or thinking about getting more
CRCs in the private sector,working for employers, uh,
(24:13):
because we are trained in thoseareas, how to
individual disabilities fromlosing their job and help
employers avoid
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (24:26):
Do you think that there are positions out
there, just, it's just that wedon't know how to make those
connections and what to look
Dr. James McNeil (24:35):
For?
So you're exactly right.
There are positions out there,there are jobs out there for
rehabilitation professionals.
There are jobs out there forcertified rehabilitation
counselors.
Uh, in my experience, most jobpostings won't say hiring for
crc.
You really have to think outsidethe box.
You really have to use keywordsthat, that are similar to
(24:57):
counselor, rehabilitationcounselor in order to locate a
job that's specific to what youdo.
So that's why I make it a pointto, uh, try to get as many
keyword out there as possiblefor you to put in the field box
to search.
Hopefully it'll yield moreresults.
Uh, there's more, there's morekeywords out there that could
(25:18):
be, for example, uh, vocationalconsultant, disability
specialist, disability casemanager, human resources.
The reason why that's important,so, so there's human resources
specialist.
There's human resourcesconsultant.
Why is that important?
Nine times outta 10, that's thedepartment you're gonna be
working under.
When you work in the privatesector, when you work for the
(25:40):
employer, their departments arecalled what Human resources
department, what's in the HumanResources Department, benefits,
disability leaves.
And so that's most likely thedepartment you're going to be
working under.
And so a lot of times theposition might be called Human
Resources and Specialists.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (25:58):
I also think the profession is not well known
in the public sector, which iscertified re of counselors do,
um, which C R C is working on.
But there's also the issue thatemployers don't value the crc.
And I think just what you said,you can go in to any of these
positions with your credential,and while they, I'm gonna use
(26:19):
the word, don't value it, Ithink, and correct me if I'm
wrong, I think once you get intothat position and with any
position, you have to advocatefor yourself on your skills and
knowledge and what that bringsto the employer.
And I know CRC has to do work onto, to make sure that employers
recognize what the importanceand the impact of CRC can have
(26:39):
on that organization.
Would you agree or disagree withthat statement?
Dr. James McNeil (26:44):
I would agree with it.
Um, I, I think I would say it,it's, it is not so much that
employers don't value the CRC asmuch as they don't know about
the crc.
It's been my experience thatonce in my cases is I was hired
and started working andproducing for employers.
They saw me as really important,therefore, they seen me as an
(27:07):
asset.
They seen me as valuable, butprior to my arrival, the prior
to them bringing me on, it'svery easy for me to believe that
they just didn't know thatpeople like me with the
background existed
And there's a ton of us.
So, so there's gonna be a lot ofpioneers.
There's going to be a lot of CRCPioneer.
That's another one I like.
Write that to write that downtoo, Pam, CRC pioneers,
(27:30):
you're gonna be the firstbecause this is kind of new for
us, branching out of our comfortzone.
And instead of, again, workingwith employers, now we're
saying, let's work for employersas a rehabilitation
professional.
Chances are you're going to bethe first, you're gonna be the
first to do that, but you aregonna be so important because
(27:53):
the employer's gonna see howeffective you are.
And that's gonna open the doorfor other CRCs to work alongside
you for that employer.
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (28:01):
What would you recommend to someone who may
be con consider leaving andgiving up their CRC today for
what may lie ahead in the
Dr. James McNeil (28:10):
Future?
Uh, the first, the first thing Iwould say is don't give it up
If you're considering giving upthe crc, I would say don't do
it.
Uh, don't do it because itseparates you from any other
healthcare professional.
Ooh, I like that.
I'm saying a lot.
This is a lot of, lot of goodstuff that I'm saying right now.
It's the CRC separates you fromother healthcare professionals.
(28:32):
So what essentially am I saying?
I'm saying that you are ahealthcare professional, but the
difference between you as ahealthcare professional and
another healthcare professionalis that CRC that is the highest
credential, um, within the fieldof rehabilitation that you can
achieve.
So number one, it's, it's justmeaningful itself just to have
it.
And two, uh, for you to work sohard and to learn so much to
(28:56):
achieve it, all of these thingsthat you learned and work so
hard for you actually get toapply in the field, in practice
and have it displaying.
The CRC says that either youknow what to do or you know how
to find out what to do.
And that's my take on it.
I would also say that it's justa matter of time before
businesses and corporations knowabout it.
(29:19):
It is not so much that theydon't value it, it's just that
they don't know.
And then when you get the wordout more, you start building,
uh, more relationships withbusinesses, then they start to
know about it.
And then once they know aboutit, they say, well, hey, guess
what?
It's important.
We want to, uh, create acampaign,
(29:42):
entice CRCs to get more CRCs tocome and work for work for us.
It's happening.
I have many CRC friends that arenow working for places like
Google and Meta and Amazon and,and Prudential.
They're all over now.
They're spread out.
But the more people who start tothink outside the box, which is,
(30:06):
Hey, what do it be like to workfor an employer?
Then you'll take that risk.
You'll get higher, you'll beable to do what the employer is,
uh, needs you to do and go aboveand beyond.
And then it's going to, again,you're, you are the person
that's going to, uh, open thedoor and other CRCs are gonna
notice that other employers aregonna notice that.
And then the word is going to beout more and more and
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (30:28):
More.
I couldn't agree with you more.
And I think that we all have tobe pioneers in this effort.
You know, CRC is gonna take thelead and start, uh, as you know,
sitting on the CRC board thework that we need to do to make
sure that, uh, this professionis elevated and people
understand the work that isbeing done and the experience
that you bring and the impactand the return on investment
(30:48):
employer would have by hiringsomebody with your credentials
and skillsets.
And I think it's true also thatas a C R C, you have to advocate
for yourself as well and theprofession.
And I think that's important tothe employer, but also to the
clients that you serve.
Um, yes.
Cause that is so important thatthe clients understand the
background that you come fromand, and what experience you
(31:11):
bring to them is so importantbecause we want clients to be
advocating to get the bestquality services from the best
qualified individual.
So, um, a lot of folks, um, indiscuss rehabilitation
counseling is a pathway thatthey felt compelled to follow.
What so far has brought you themost joy in, in what you have
(31:32):
done so far in, in your work?
Dr. James McNeil (31:34):
Wow.
That is a, that's a greatquestion.
I would say it all boils the,whatever I, whatever I can
think, I'm thinking of manythings, but I, I think it all
would be grouped under thisphrase that is, uh, the
relationships that I've built,that I've established.
It's the relationships, therelationships with the employees
with disabilities, the jobapplicants with disabilities,
(31:57):
the employers.
And when I say employers, I, I,I want to describe what I'm
talking about cuz I'm, I'm notjust talking about the building,
I'm talking about managers,administrators, supervisors,
department heads.
The relationships that you buildwith them are so, are so
important because one, you arerelying on them to better
(32:17):
understand the job, theemployer's concern and the, the
employee's concerned.
So there's two, it's, it'ssometimes like when you work in
a private sector, it's not justabout meeting the needs of the
employee, it's also aboutmeeting the needs of the
employer.
That's very important.
Both things can happen.
I wanna say that it doesn't haveto be either or both things can
(32:39):
happen where you can satisfy theemployee and you can satisfy the
employer.
We have the skills to do that.
And so that has been one of themost rewarding, I'm gonna speak
plainly.
When you get to the point whereyou've helped an employee return
to work or stay at work,essentially they can come back
and do their job or a job that'ssatisfying.
You feel good about that, butyou, it is just as satisfying
(33:02):
when that employee's manager isalso happy saying, Hey, guess
what?
It didn't require us to changethe way we, we do things.
We, our pro our productivity orour rate or these things that
would cause the company to losemoney or lose customers.
You know, what the employer isconcerned about.
Yeah.
And that's okay.
(33:22):
That's actually a good thingbecause again, you can address
both as a rehabilitationprofessional working in the
private sector and when you canachieve both, um, it's like a
double the reward
Pam Shlemon, CRCC (33:34):
Sure.
It just, uh, represents thefootprint you leave behind and
how important the work is and,and the impact that you make to,
again, it's not just one, it'snot the employer, it's, it's,
it's everybody.
So, and I just wanted to addthat, um, you are creating a
self-study course under eUniversity talking about this
(33:55):
very much more detail, um, thatshould be coming out in June.
So we hope that, uh, people tuneinto that because it is
important.
It's got a lot of greatinformation if you're looking to
transition over to the privatesector.
Even if you're not, there's alot of good information, um, to
have on there.
So Dr.
McNeil, thank you again.
(34:16):
Again, we thank you for yoursupport and, um, look forward to
, uh, working with you on andother, on other projects.
Dr. James McNeil (34:25):
Yes, Pam, thank you for inviting me again.
This was awesome.
I had a great time.
I hope there was at least onething that, uh, someone can take
away.
But at the end of the day, youknow, um, there's a need for us
for CRCs in the private sectorand I'll, I'll, I'll be even
more specific.
There's a need for usrehabilitation professionals to
(34:47):
work for fi Fortune 500companies to work for mid-size
companies and small businesses.
There's a need and, and we cando it.
We already have the skills.
There might be some things thatyou, you need to learn, you know
, business skills or the, theway that, you know, how a
business thinks.
But there are trainings comingout and, uh, as, as Pam you
mentioned, there's a self-studywithin the CRC that's going to
(35:09):
expose you to that, some ofthese things that you need to
know.
So there's some things that,that, that are coming down the
pipeline.
But for the most part, if youare a crc, you have most of the
skills that you need already.
Pam (Voiceover) (35:25):
Thanks again to Dr.
James McNeil.
If there's a C or C or someoneyou think we should speak with
for this podcast, or maybe youhave a question you'd like us to
answer in future episode, let usknow by emailing us at contact
us@crccertification.com.
Please be sure to subscribe tothis show on Apple Podcast,
Spotify, Google podcast, orwherever you're listening to us
(35:47):
today.
You can find us on Facebook,Twitter, and LinkedIn at CRC
Cert and our website is crccertification.com.
Until next time, I'm CRCexecutive director, Pam Schleman
.
Thank you for listening toInside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
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