October 27, 2025 • 36 mins
Since the late 1970s, the Pittsburgh Public School system has hired Certified Rehabilitation Counselors to provide services for students with disabilities, ranging from ensuring accommodations are in place to providing transition services that prepare them for life after high school. The National Center for Education Statistics reports that 7.5 million, or 15% of all public school students, receive special education services. Because these services are so vital, Pittsburgh Public Schools prioritizes ensuring that qualified, highly trained professionals deliver them by hiring Certified Rehabilitation Counselors as part of the interdisciplinary team working in the special education program at their schools. One of those CRCs is our guest for this episode.
Crystal Evans is the Transition Coordinator for Pittsburgh Public Schools and has been with the school system for 18 years. Crystal spoke with me about the impact transition services make on not only students with disabilities and their families, but also the community. You’ll also hear some thoughts on how employer outreach can help destigmatize hiring individuals with disabilities, and a few success stories that point to the importance of ensuring every student has this quality of professionalism and service.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (00:04):
Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
I'm CRCC Director ofCommunications and Marketing
Taylor Bauer, and I'm excited tobring you another conversation
exploring the art and science ofrehabilitation counseling.
Since the late 1970s, thePittsburgh Public School System
has hired certifiedrehabilitation counselors to
provide services for studentswith disabilities, ranging from
(00:24):
ensuring accommodations are inplace to transition services,
preparing them for life afterhigh school.
The National Center ofEducation Statistics reports
that 7.5 million, or 15%, of allpublic school students receive
special education services.
Because these services are sovital, ensuring that qualified,
highly trained professionalsdeliver them is a priority for
(00:46):
Pittsburgh Public Schools, whichhires certified rehabilitation
counselors as part of theinterdisciplinary team working
in the special education programat their schools.
One of those CRCs is our guestfor this episode.
Crystal Evans is the transitioncoordinator for Pittsburgh
Public Schools and has been withthe school system for 18 years.
Crystal spoke with me about theimpact transition services make
(01:09):
on not only a student withdisabilities and their families,
but also a community.
You'll also hear some thoughtson how employer outreach can
help work to destigmatize hiringan individual with disabilities
and a few success stories thatpoint to the importance of every
student having this quality ofprofessional and service in
their school.
Crystal, thank you so much forjoining us here on Inside
(01:30):
Rehabilitation Counseling.
I'm really excited to havesomeone working in transition
services on the show.
It's probably the area of workthat CRCs can pursue that we get
the most questions about,whether it's how do I get into
this type of work, why aren'tthere more CRCs working in
transition services and K-12systems?
But before we kind of dive intoyour current role, I just want
(01:51):
to learn a little bit about yourpath to becoming a certified
rehabilitation counselor.
When did you first know thatthis is what you wanted to be
doing?
Crystal Evans, CRC (01:59):
So I would say when I was in high school, I
always thought that I would besome type of a counselor.
I think more so mental healthcounseling at that time.
When I started college, myundergrad, I majored in
psychology and sociology.
So that, you know, just kind ofcontinued to spark my interest
in the field.
I knew I wanted to go on tograd school, but again, just
(02:19):
assumed that I would do sometype of counseling, mental
health counseling, even thoughtabout marriage counseling at one
point.
When I started, it wasn't untilI started going through the
list of graduate programs atWest Virginia University that I
learned what rehab counselingwas.
And I think what drew metowards that specific program
(02:40):
was that the variety ofdifferent areas that a rehab
counselor could work in,including, you know, mental
health agencies, schools.
So that that really piqued myinterest.
And then when I started thatprogram and did an internship, I
interned at a mental healthfacility in Morgantown, West
(03:01):
Virginia, and realized that thatwasn't something that I wanted
to do, which was a good.
I mean, it was a greatexperience.
But at the same time, I thinkat that point I was leaning more
towards Voke Rehab, staterehab, or schools.
So I ended up doing anotherinternship at the Pennsylvania
Office of VocationalRehabilitation here in
(03:21):
Pittsburgh and commuted thereevery day for my internship from
Morgantown to Pittsburgh andreally enjoyed that work.
So I ended up getting hiredthere.
I worked there for five yearsprior to coming on to the school
district.
Um but it was through my workthrough OVR where I had
predominantly a transition agecaseload.
So I worked with students ages14 and up at some of the local
(03:43):
uh city schools, in addition tosome of the schools in the
suburbs, um, and then had adultswith disabilities on my
caseload as well.
And I really enjoyed my workwith the students, um, the
transition age population.
And so when a position becameavailable with the schools, um I
ended up interviewing and havebeen here for I think 18 years.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (04:03):
And as you mentioned, like with your
internship, sometimes it it'shelpful to get into a work
setting and know, oh, this isn'tfor me, right?
And there's things to learnfrom that experience.
Absolutely.
Um and I'm sure, you know,there are parts that even
potentially running into partsof that work where you were
like, oh, I don't like this asmuch as I thought, or I might
want to be doing this a littledifferently.
That probably carries with youwhen you're going to a new work
(04:25):
setting and you're like, okay, Ikind of know what resonates
with me professionally.
And going back to kind of yourum initial reasoning for even
pursuing this field, you know,knowing the core of like what
you want to do, which it soundslike was very like um
action-oriented.
You wanted to make adifference.
And it's great that you wereable to find that kind of path
through transition uh services.
And you, as you mentioned,you've served as the transition
(04:47):
coordinator for uh PittsburghPublic Schools now for um you
said 18 years?
Crystal Evans, CRC (04:52):
Yeah, 2007.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (04:53):
So okay.
Tell me a little bit about thework that you do and uh maybe
like what a typical week lookslike with the work you're doing.
And I'm sure right now, newschool year, uh the weeks might
look a little bit different eventhan, you know, they do
January, February.
Crystal Evans, CRC (05:08):
Yeah, the beginning of the year and end of
the year are always thebusiest.
December is really the slowestmonth, and it's really even then
not really slow.
But part of my job includes umproviding support to our our
transition counselors.
So they used to be calledrehabilitation counselors, now
they're transition counselors.
Um, same requirements, samequalifications, same job duties.
Um, they were hired in ourdistrict, and just kind of kind
(05:31):
of to give a little bit ofbackground on them.
We our district started hiringrehabilitation counselors in the
late 70s.
And the intent back then was tohelp support our students with
IEPs, students that havedisabilities who are in our
career and tech ed programs, andto help provide them with you
know more support, the knowledgeof what might be out there as
(05:53):
far as work goes in a vocationalsetting.
So we've had CRCs and have beenhiring CRCs in our district
since the late 70s.
Currently, we have 14transition counselors or
rehabilitation counselors in ourschools.
They provide um they're thedirect point of contact for all
of our students that have IEPsages 14 through 21.
(06:14):
Students in our district canremain in school until the day
before they turn 22.
So they have their pace load.
Our counselors are providingthe direct support for students,
they're helping them plan forlife after graduation.
They're so they're looking atemployment, they're looking at
post-secondary education ortraining, and then independent
living.
So, what are we doing now whilethe still students are still in
(06:37):
high school to help preparethem for life after graduation?
So, part of my role in thedistrict is providing support to
all of those counselors.
Um, in addition, I also dotraining to our counselors and
special education teachers inregards to any uh federal or
state secondary transition lawsand regulations.
So indicator 13 has been a bigone.
Um, since I started in thedistrict, that's been you know a
(07:00):
training that I will go aroundand do with our staff, um,
including our charter schools.
And basically that's justmaking sure that we're providing
adequate transition services ina student's individualized
education program that will helpprepare them for life after
graduation.
So um that's kind of one aspectof my job.
We also have transitionprograms in our district where
(07:21):
we have students that will beworking at a real work site in
the community for part of theday, um, either supported by our
teachers, supported by a jobcoach, or just natural supports
on the work site.
So within those programs, Ialso provide support to our
transition programs as well.
So anything transition related,you know, I'm here to provide
(07:42):
that support.
What a typical day might looklike, I attend a lot of
meetings.
Umfortunately, now I'm notrunning from school to school
since we have the capability todo things uh virtually.
So it's a lot of teamsmeetings.
Um, it's a lot of just bouncingideas off of our program
coordinators and things.
And right now, just planningand preparation for getting our
programs up and running.
And we have some new staff thisyear that I'm providing support
(08:05):
to.
So that's kind of a typicalday.
And then my training, I will dothat training throughout the
school year as well on thecompliance and IEP writing.
Also, one thing I didn'tmention is maintaining contact
and connections with our localagencies that work with
students.
Um, that's another big part ofmy job.
We work very closely with ourVR where I used to work prior to
(08:25):
coming to the district.
We have OVR counselors assignedto all of our high school.
So just making sure that ourstudents, our staff are aware of
different agencies that canprovide support to students, um,
either while they're still inhigh school or once they
graduate, and just kind ofmaintaining those connections
throughout the years to makesure that we stay up to date on
what's out there, who's outthere, what are they providing,
(08:46):
because a lot has changed sincesince COVID.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (08:49):
So I could imagine, yeah.
And I keeping track of allthose different
cross-departmental um folks whoare working in or out of schools
or going from one school toanother is kind of a uh not not
a challenge, but um a uniquepart of that work as well
because it takes a lot oflogistics.
So when you said meetings, Iwas imagining I'm like, yeah, I
mean, those meetings probablytake up a huge chunk of your
(09:10):
week, but those are essential togetting those services to the
students.
So I think sometimes we hearfrom folks that are like, I
really want to be workingdirectly with the students or
the clients themselves.
And um, I I don't want to beaway from that part of the job.
And I always try to remindthem, I'm like, sometimes the
behind the scenes work is justas impactful because without all
of that planning and makingsure you have the right uh
(09:32):
counselors and the right teamthere to meet the needs of the
people you're serving, um,nothing happens.
So they're very uh lucky tohave you because it sounds like
you have a lot on your plate anduh we're we're grateful for the
work you're doing.
And it's really great also tohear a little bit about the uh
the history of the schooldistrict hiring rehabilitation
counselors.
I think we tend to think ofvocational rehab as, you know,
(09:55):
state agencies or uh veteranservices and stuff like that.
There's a deep history in thisprofession within transition
services, and we'd love, youknow, CRCC would love to see
even more CRCs entering thoseroles.
And, you know, for someone whohasn't worked very closely with
transition age clients orprovided transition services in
(10:16):
their career, what are some ofthe more unique aspects or
considerations that you and yourteam encounter?
And in what ways does being acertified rehabilitation
counselor equip you to managethese challenges?
Crystal Evans, CRC (10:26):
Um, I think for us having that background
and in not only rehabilitationcounseling, clinical mental
health counseling, um, buthaving that CRC is a whole
different type of training andcertification.
So it really sets us apart froma typical guidance counselor
because we have that trainingand background in working with
individuals with disabilities.
(10:47):
I think for me, having thatexperience and working for VR
prior to coming to the schooldistrict was unique because I
got to see the adult side of it.
Now I know, you know, kind ofwhat our students are working
towards whenever they leave us.
So that kind of gave me adifferent perspective on that.
But I just think, like I said,having that CRC is just a is is
unique in and of itself.
But implementing that and andthe knowledge and and the
(11:11):
qualifications that ourcounselors have is makes us
really unique.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (11:14):
Yeah.
And we we see um a lot of folkswho are providing services to
transition-aged youth come froma variety of backgrounds, right?
And there are so many essentialroles that go into a transition
system.
And I think, yeah, thatdisability and uh rehabilitation
background and education, andthen having to pass the exam
really goes a long way inshowing that you know you're
(11:36):
going to be able to meet thosestudents where they are and
figure out a path that's gonnawork best for them, which I
would imagine is gonna lookdifferently for every single
student you work with, just likeany, just like any adult
client.
I was kind of surprised bythis.
I was doing a little bit ofresearch before our
conversation, and you know, wetend to hear a lot of times that
just disability in general orstudents specifically with
(11:57):
disabilities are a bit of anoutlier, right?
According to the NationalCenter of Education Statistics,
though, 7.5 million, or theequivalent of about 15% of all
public school students, receivesome sort of uh special
education services in the 2022,uh, 2023 school year.
And to me, that's a verysignificant demographic that's
not just like, oh, you know,some students have disabilities.
(12:19):
That's a pretty significantportion of the broader public
school student population.
What are some misconceptionsthat you work to combat when it
comes to students withdisabilities, and particularly
as they enter that transitionage?
Crystal Evans, CRC (12:33):
I would say, you know, our students can do
anything that a student withouta disability can do.
I mean, they are, you know,they can work, they can go on to
further training, college,university, short-term training
program, trade or tech schools,and can live independent lives
as well.
So I think that's amisconception that some people
have, maybe not so much in aschool district, but we run into
that with employers sometimeswhen they they you know realize
(12:56):
that you know some of the kidsthat we're we're trying to to
bring in um might have adisability.
So I think and a lot of that Ithink stems from them just
knowing, not understandingdisability.
So a lot of times that takes useducating employers on, you
know, what is autism?
And just because you know, onestudent exhibits you know, these
(13:16):
challenges or these behaviorsdoesn't mean that they all do.
And we'll go in and educatethem on how to provide
accommodations or how to, youknow, provide the support that
might be necessary for anindividual or a student that's
on the work site.
Um, so I think just kind of umeducation, I would say, is is
one of the biggest things thatwe do with a lot of the
partnerships that we have andjust educating them about the
(13:38):
different types of disabilitiesand and getting our students
there on the work sites to showthem, hey, our our kids can do
this, our our students arecapable, just as capable of as
anybody else.
Um and not just working, butlike I said, even in a
post-secondary uh trainingprogram, post-secondary
education, um, you know, ourstudents can be just as
successful and obtain a degreeor or a certificate, just like
(14:02):
anybody else that doesn't have adisability.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (14:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, kind of on the topicof employers and and kind of
helping them identifyingstudents exiting that K through
12 transition uh period aspotential job candidates, where
is the balance between, like yousaid, kind of just educating
employers on how disabilityisn't some disqualifying factor
(14:24):
for someone to get a job?
And how much of that also comeswith the work you do to help
students identify their skillsand even be able to articulate
those to an employer?
Crystal Evans, CRC (14:32):
It's a great question.
So a lot of times, you know,when we get students of a
transition age, that you know,there's a lot of them that don't
know they have a disability orthey know they have some
challenges, they might just say,you know, I'm I'm not good in,
I'm not very good in math, orI'm not good at reading.
Um, they may not understandthat it's a learning disability
or they have autism or anintellectual disability.
So it's really again useducating them.
(14:54):
We strongly encourage ourstudents to attend and not only
just attend, but participate intheir IEP meetings, you know, so
they are part of that planningprocess.
You know, we always say don'tlet your teachers and and
everybody else plan, you know,the next year for you.
We want you involved.
We want to know what yourinterests are, we want to know
(15:14):
what you want to do when yougraduate and what we can do to
help you to reach your goals.
So I think them coming in, alot of them may not know that
they have a disability.
So we're educating them in inthat regard, um, and just making
sure that they stay connected,they're engaged in their
education program through thegraduation.
Something else I wanted tomention that goes along with
(15:36):
that is just um teaching kidsself-advocacy.
I mean, that's that's huge.
So once they do, you know, havean understanding of their
disability, what their needsare, what accommodations are,
being able to ask for help whenneeded is extremely important.
So again, those are skills thatwe we start teaching, I mean,
as early on as possible, but ata minimum transition age, which
(15:57):
in Pennsylvania is 14 throughgraduation and ask for help.
Ask your teachers for help whenyou need it, ask your parents
for help when you need it.
And then of course, when theyget to the work site, we always
encourage that as well.
How would you go about if youare struggling on a work site or
you don't know what task isnext, or you don't know how to
do something, or you don't knowwhere something is, um, we want
to make sure that our studentsknow how to ask for help when
(16:18):
needed.
Self-advocacy,self-determination are huge.
They can be a b barrier to ourstudents, but we we want to make
sure those are those are skillsthat we teach students before
they leave us.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (16:28):
Yeah, and those can be tough concepts for
anybody to be able to put intopractice in the workplace.
Um particularly for people witha disability.
We know a lot of folks who aredisabled might try to not share
that with an employer uh forrisk of thinking they might get
treated differently or theymight be seen as less capable,
which we know tends to not bethe case, right?
(16:49):
Folks with disabilities in theworkplace tend to overperform
because they're looking tocompensate for discrimination
and things like that.
So it's that's kind of one ofthose reasons why I want to see
eventually more certifiedrehabilitation counselors
working with, I mean, anybodywith a disability, but students
in particular, those skillslearned at that, you know,
chapter of your life as itbegins to head into a new one
(17:11):
can be integral to being able tohave a career ahead of you that
says, no matter where I'mworking, I know how to explain
to my employer, like you said,what it is that I need to
succeed.
And also knowing that I cantell them, like, look, I could
be great at this work.
I just need to be put in theposition to do great.
And I need to be given thesesupports, and this is how this
(17:32):
is going to work best foreverybody involved.
And that's, you know, like Isaid, a challenging thing for
anybody to do.
But it's great to get thatexperience and those skills at
this age group that you'reworking with.
What sort of experiences in therole uh that you have with
Pittsburgh Public Schools haveshown you just how crucial it is
to have experts like yourselfand your team in these
(17:53):
transition students' lives?
Are there any success storiesthat stand out to you in your
time with the school districtthat really kind of are those
like, aha, this is why I do whatI do moments?
Crystal Evans, CR (18:04):
Interestingly enough, just two days ago, we
we have a uh one of ourtransition programs, our start
on success program, has an openposition for a special education
teacher.
Um, that program, this theteacher teaches classes, career
development classes in themorning, in the afternoon,
they're out in the communitychecking on students, seniors
who are doing a paid internship.
Of all the applicants that wehad, we ended up having a former
(18:27):
start on success student applyfor an interview for the
position.
So it was a student thatgraduated from Pittsburgh Public
Schools, I believe back in2009, 2010, did a paid
internship with us, I think atAllegheny General Hospital, and
then went on to get herbachelor's degree, and then went
on to even get her master'sdegree in special education, um,
(18:48):
and then became a specialeducation, a certified special
education teacher.
So it's really awesome to seesomeone that it's kind of full
circle, it brings it backaround.
Someone who has a disabilitywho, you know, went through one
of our transition programs andthen, you know, was able,
because of the skills andeverything that she learned, was
able to earn her bachelor'sdegree and then a master's
(19:09):
degree, and then ended up, youknow, interviewing for one of
our one of our positions for theprogram that she was in when
she was in high school.
So that that's really cool tosee.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (19:18):
How often does that happen that you kind
of get to come across thestudents who have gone through
the services that you provide?
Is that a common thing or isthat not really happening as
much?
Crystal Evans, CRC (19:28):
I wouldn't say that it's common.
Um I've run into some studentsout of at some places before
where I've been shopping orwhatever, and and it's it's
awesome to see them working orstill working in a place maybe
the where they were wheneverthey were with us.
We recently, and again, thisdoesn't happen often, but we've
had some some cases recentlywhere um, like I said, that the
girl I mentioned before that'snow a special education teacher
(19:51):
who interviewed.
Um, we have another student whojust graduated this past year
who was interesting and ininterested in becoming either a
teacher's aide or or somethinglike that in a classroom setting
or working with individualswith disabilities.
So she again went through oneof our transition programs, our
Start on Success program, didpaid internship, worked with the
summer um employment programhere called Learn and Earn,
(20:14):
where it's also a paid paidposition for her over the
summer, working with kids.
And then she ended up applyingfor and was recently hired as a
personal care aide in our schoolfor a contracted agency that
works with kids in our schooldistrict.
So again, someone who kind ofwent through the program working
with the people withdisabilities was an interest for
her.
And so some of the skills thatshe learned through the program
(20:37):
and our transition servicesreally helped her to get to
where she is.
So she was hired and isstarting, I think, this month in
October.
So that's exciting.
Um so again, the those Iwouldn't say that happens often
to where we have kids come backand work the dis we definitely
would encourage that.
I mean, you know, we havevarious positions where where
kids can work, um, either rightout of high school or just, you
(20:59):
know, with minimal training.
But just like I said, those area couple of things recently
that where we've had some kidskind of come back around in full
circle where they've beenthrough some of our programs.
So it's really awesome to see.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (21:10):
Yeah, that's so great.
And I really appreciate yousharing that because I think we
talk all the time about, youknow, CRCs help individuals with
disabilities, you know, achievetheir professional and personal
goals.
And those kind of uhindividualized journeys are so
impactful for peopleunderstanding why this work
matters and why it's soimportant.
And I think it's kind of a uhit's a relationship that's very
(21:31):
important that, you know, you'reliterally shaping your
community by helping thesestudents find their passion and
and go out and become, you know,contributing members of the
community and do great thingsand inspire the next generation
of students.
And um, you know, it's alsoessential that, you know, like
Pittsburgh Public School isbuying into that concept of why
it's so important to putprofessionals like yourself in
(21:53):
these positions because this isnot like a, you know, you work
with a student, they graduate,and it's like, okay, that's the
end of the story.
They have their own story nowto go on and write.
And that can be, like I said,community altering in such a
positive, impactful way.
And pointing to those kind ofsuccess stories are the best way
that we have to be able to showfolks who don't know about this
work, or maybe they know, like,oh, professionals work with
(22:15):
students with disabilities inthe classroom.
But why is it so crucial thatyou have those highly trained,
highly qualified professionalsin that role?
It's because they're going toliterally shape this person's
future to go on and shape otherfutures.
And as a non-CRC and anon-counselor, those are the
things that get me reallypassionate about, you know, the
work we do at CRCC where I'mlike, okay, cool.
Now I'm all fired up because Iwant to go tell people about
(22:38):
this and how how great the workyou do is.
And um, you know, that's that'sI guess why I'm here and why
the podcast exists.
So I appreciate you sharingboth of those stories.
Crystal Evans, CRC (22:47):
I do want, you know, I have to mention too,
it's it's not just us and andour CRCs that we work in the
schools, but it's you know,making sure that we stay in
communication and have a goodrelationship, establish a good
relationship with our familiesand our our students' families.
I mean, that's you know,terribly important because once
we go away, you know, once astudent graduates, then we want
to make sure that they haveanother team of support around
(23:07):
them.
So between the students'families, um, like I said, the
various agencies that we workwith, um, you know, OVR being
one of the bigger ones, um,Office of Developmental
Supports, depending on thestudents' disabilities, making
sure students have supportscoordinators.
So, you know, they allobviously have a hand in helping
our students be successfuladults as well.
And like you said earlier,being contributing members of
(23:29):
society.
That's that's what we want forall students.
So, but it it is great um tosee our students kind of come
back around and full circle, youknow, because we don't always
get to see that.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (23:40):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, I appreciate you kind ofnoting that because I feel like
maybe it's just the way that Ispend my time where I'm
constantly telling people aboutCRCs and the work that you all
do, where it starts to almostsound like our master plan is to
have CRCs be every singleposition everywhere.
And really it's more the factthat multidisciplinary teams
lend themselves to successfuloutcomes for the people that
(24:02):
CRCs, you know, exist to serve,right?
So it's it's it's definitely agood call out on your behalf to
say, you know, CRCs have thisspecific skill set that when
partnered with the folks who arereally great at what they do,
and like you said, too, thefamilies at home who can help to
foster that self-efficacy andbe that support team uh prior or
uh after they exit that Kthrough 12 transition system,
(24:26):
um, that's where the workcontinues, right?
Like I said, the story doesn'tend on graduation day.
And it's it's really powerfulto see, you know, all these
different professionals cometogether in that school system
and then hopefully equipfamilies and friends and support
teams to uh continue toadvocate for uh their student
with a disability who is nowheading out into the working
world, as well as thatindividual uh student themselves
(24:49):
who's now going to be having todo some of that work themselves
to say, you know, here are myskills, um, here's what I know I
can bring to the table and kindof build on all the things that
they've been exposed to fromprofessionals like yourself and
your peers in the schooldistrict.
So I appreciate you callingthat out.
Sure.
Absolutely.
It what we would love to seemore is just that into
interdisciplinary team.
(25:10):
And what we do find from folksis, you know, there are a lot of
places that CRCs will say, Ithink like we have a role on
this team or in this worksetting, and they potentially
don't have CRCs on their team.
And that's kind of the goal,right?
Is to get them into as manyplaces where they can be working
with people with disabilitiesas possible.
Crystal Evans, CRC (25:28):
Absolutely.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (25:29):
We've featured a number of disability
service professionals at theuniversity level on this show,
and many of them have told usthat students they work with are
very clear on whataccommodation they know that
they need and will help them besuccessful.
There are certain instanceswhere a student might not know
all the accommodations that areavailable to them, but they say
a lot of students, especiallynow, come to them and say, I
(25:51):
know I need this, I need a notetaker, I need um to be able to
record lectures, things likethat.
They kind of come in ready tosay, This is what I'm looking
for.
Is that kind of a goal for thestudents that you're working
with who are nearing graduationand looking to pursue secondary
education?
Um, that kind of level of, Iknow what I need to be
successful and here's here'swhat I want to see.
Crystal Evans, CRC (26:12):
Absolutely.
So again, not only on the worksite do we want them to know,
you know, be able to ask forhelp and if they need
accommodations to kind of havean understanding of what they
might need.
But if they're going on to sometype of further training and a
post-secondary educationprogram, um, again, that's why
we stress them attending theirIEP meetings because we talk
about that.
Well, here's how you're doingin these classes, you're getting
(26:33):
these supports, you're gettingthese services, you're getting
um, you know, theseaccommodations.
This is what's helping you.
Extra time on tests.
Um, you know, maybe it'spreferential seating, sitting in
towards the the front of theclassroom, um, having a note
taker, for example.
So those are things, you know,not we know that um there's
different, you know, it movesfrom entitlement to eligibility
(26:54):
once our students leave us.
And so there's different thingsthat a college may or may not
be able to provide that weprovide.
However, a lot of those thingsdo overlap.
And and just so we want to makesure that our students know
there are accommodations outthere.
It might look a little bitdifferent than what you received
when you were in in highschool.
Um, but if you do go on tofurther training, then we want
(27:15):
to make sure that they know thatyou know what accommodations
work for them and who to seekout for that.
You know, that's something, youknow, if we have a student
that's going on to um our localcommunity college here in
Allegheny County, who is the thethe contact for disability
services?
What you know, what could theypotentially provide?
There are accommodations thatyou might be eligible for.
(27:37):
Make sure you ask for help.
And we always tell ourstudents, you know, if if you
you're not sure where to go, whoto see, what to ask, come back
to us.
Like our counselors would wewould never tell someone, I
can't work with you anymore.
You've you've alreadygraduated.
Of course, we're not going todo that.
So we're always more thanwilling um to help in that
aspect or you know, make surethat they're reconnected or
(27:57):
connected with the VR systembecause the the OVR counselors
can help with that as well.
Um, so yes, definitely, youknow, understanding what
accommodations might beavailable to them um whenever
they're in the post-secondaryeducation program is is
extremely important.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (28:12):
Yeah, and that's a great point you made
about, you know, theaccommodations or the offerings
might be a little bit different,but that's kind of where that
idea of um articulating yourfunctional limitations is so
important, right?
They might not be able to go inand get exactly what they had
during their K through 12experience, but they can at
least say, I know that I do mybest when I am put in this sort
of position to succeed, or whenI have these supports.
(28:35):
And ideally, right, the the umaccessibility coordinator at
that university orpost-secondary school will be
able to say, okay, we kind ofhave a version of that.
And it's a it's a lot betterthan having a student.
We've even had CRCs that I'vespoken with who maybe didn't
receive any sort ofaccommodation for a disability
that they maybe really didn'tfully understood they have until
(28:56):
they go to college and they getto talk to an accessibility
coordinator or ADA you knowmanager or something like that.
And finding thoseaccommodations after the fact
are kind of um deflating becausethey're like, I could have had
this in my corner the wholetime.
And it's that's why to me,highlighting the work that you
do in transition services as aCRC is so impactful because
(29:18):
getting that exposure to thosethings early on means that you
know how to seek out thoseaccommodations throughout the
rest of your life that are goingto be the difference between
feeling like you're not maybecut out to do something when we
know for the most part a lot ofaccommodations are fairly
straightforward and really youjust need to be able to talk to
the right people who can providethem and connect you to the
(29:40):
people who provide them.
And knowing how to do that atthat K through 12 age, you know,
like you said, 14 and on, um,can really give you that self
efficacy, that self advocacythat um is gonna carry a long
way as you can continue to gothrough your life.
Crystal Evans, CRC (29:55):
I think one thing we're very fortunate
within the city of Pittsburgh tohave a lot of resources
available.
We're close to everything.
So, you know, being on a busline is and and and getting bus
transportation is typically notan issue for us and our
students.
So we're able to travel.
Um, so one thing that we doreally promote is you know, if
we have students who areinterested in going on for some
(30:16):
type of post-secondary trainingprogram, or maybe they're just
not sure.
We we promote a lot of um youknow job shadowing and and
college tours, whether they'revirtual or on site.
If we do take them on site, wealways make sure that we we take
them to see where disabilityservices is, meet with a person
there to just just to get themacclimated.
(30:36):
Because sometimes that comfortlevel might be all it takes for
them to say, hey, I can do this.
Now I feel a little bit morecomfortable now, even prior to
them graduating, that they knowwhere to go and who to see, um,
and that they can get thatsupport if needed whenever they
do go on for further training.
Something else that um our CRCsdo, they're responsible for
(30:57):
administering transitionassessments for our students
starting at age 14.
So different career interestinventories and things like
that.
One thing we try to promote areum um learning styles.
So, how do you learn best?
So the results of a learningstyle assessment will tell a
student are they more of avisual learner?
Are they more an auditorylearner?
So those that's something elsethat they can kind of take
(31:19):
either to an employer orpost-secondary training program
and say, I learned best byreading the material.
Like I, you know, someone mightstruggle just hearing a
professor, you know, kind ofgoing through, you know, a topic
or whatever, but they learnbest by having some materials
presented to them um, you know,in written format, or vice
versa.
So that again is just somethinganother tool that um a lot of
(31:42):
our students can take with themwhenever they leave up, leave us
once they have that cadre ofassessments.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (31:48):
But that's one of the things about the
experience of working with theCRC I find so fascinating is
that assessment and that kind ofstep one, let's figure out what
sort of limitations arepresent, not because we are
deficits focused, but becausethat's how we understand what's
the best way to proceed towardthose goals that we're setting.
That's such a powerful thing tobe able to start with and then
(32:09):
say, I know what resources inthe community I can connect the
student with, or what methods oflearning or exposure to
information I know are proven tobe most effective for somebody
who does better with thisinstead of that, or vice versa.
And I find that that kind ofcreative thinking in the scope
of providing disability servicesto me is what really seems to
(32:31):
set CRCs apart because there'sso much of that, you know, first
you got to figure out what'sgoing on.
And then, you know, the harderpart really sometimes is like,
okay, well, what do we do tomitigate what this person's
experiencing?
And sometimes that can be splitinto multiple professionals.
And, you know, like we'vementioned, it's not just one CRC
who's in there, you know,what's superman or superwoman
(32:53):
doing everything themselves, buthaving the knowledge of how to
systematically go through thosesteps, starting with assessment,
and then have those connectionsready to be able to provide to
the student is just such a, tome, priceless asset for a school
district, a hospital, any sortof employer who's looking to
either serve people withdisabilities as uh customers or
(33:13):
clientele or to be able to hirepeople with disabilities because
you're really getting thatbreadth and depth of knowledge
that comes with the training uhthat you have as a CRC that just
seems so integral to what you'dwant to achieve on behalf of
someone with a disability orhelp to seek them to achieve.
And it just it to me, it's oneof those things where I'm like,
(33:34):
we just need to apparently makeevery employer listen to this
podcast so they hear the workthat you do.
Um wouldn't hurt our wouldn'thurt our analytics either.
So I'd be happy about that too.
Um so we'll work on that,right?
That's for another episode.
Um uh we tend to end theseconversations the same way
because something that always umdraws me in talking to CRCs
(33:56):
like yourself is just howpassionate about this work that
you are.
And um, many CRCs havedescribed, you know, pursuing
this profession as a callingthat they answered, maybe a
calling they didn't even knowwas out there.
Um so I I I'm I'm curious tohear from you what brings you
the most joy in the work thatyou do?
Crystal Evans, CRC (34:13):
Um, I would say for me, just seeing our
students success once they oncethey leave us.
I mean, that that's the pointis is is what and what I do and
what we do as CRCs in ourdistrict is to prepare kids for
life after graduation.
And that's gonna look differentfor everybody, regardless of
the disability.
But to see them be successful,whether it's you know working in
competitive employment in thecommunity, um, maybe it's just
(34:35):
getting the right support, maybeit's getting connected to the
appropriate agencies that reallyhelp them.
Um, independent living, beingable to live as independently as
possible, um, that is reallyexciting to see.
And and I would say, you know,a lot of times we do see student
success once they leave us, butyou know, sometimes we don't
always kind of hear that, maybenot initially, but maybe later
(34:56):
on down the road, just like Ithe stories I mentioned earlier.
Um, or we see them out in thecommunity, you know, like, hey,
you used to, you know, you werein one of our programs.
It's awesome that you're doinggreat.
So I would say, I mean, thatagain, that just solidifies, you
know, the importance of havingCRCs working in the schools and
helping to prepare kids,bringing the knowledge that our
CRCs have um to the work that wedo is is, you know, it's just
(35:21):
incredible.
And I would say that's that'sthe that's the thing that makes
me the most passionate aboutwhat I do is is just, you know,
I might not be directly workingwith each student, but you know,
kind of in the in thebackground and supporting the
programs and supporting our CRCsand what they do.
But I know that, you know, mywork is is helpful and it it's
helping students to besuccessful and and independent
(35:42):
whenever they leave.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (35:46):
A huge thank you to Crystal Evans for an
excellent conversation on thisepisode of Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
If you have any comments orinsights to share on today's
topic, email us at contact us atcrccertification.com.
That is where you can also letus know about topics you would
like us to explore on the show.
You can find us on Facebook,Instagram, and LinkedIn by
(36:08):
searching CRC Cert.
Like, subscribe, and rate theshow on your favorite podcast
platform, including Spotify,Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you're listening to us today.
Thank you as always forlistening to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling.
I'm CRCC, Director ofCommunications and Marketing
Taylor Bauer.
Take care.
Welcome back to Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
I'm CRCC Director ofCommunications and Marketing
Taylor Bauer, and I'm excited tobring you another conversation
exploring the art and science ofrehabilitation counseling.
Since the late 1970s, thePittsburgh Public School System
has hired certifiedrehabilitation counselors to
provide services for studentswith disabilities, ranging from
(00:24):
ensuring accommodations are inplace to transition services,
preparing them for life afterhigh school.
The National Center ofEducation Statistics reports
that 7.5 million, or 15%, of allpublic school students receive
special education services.
Because these services are sovital, ensuring that qualified,
highly trained professionalsdeliver them is a priority for
(00:46):
Pittsburgh Public Schools, whichhires certified rehabilitation
counselors as part of theinterdisciplinary team working
in the special education programat their schools.
One of those CRCs is our guestfor this episode.
Crystal Evans is the transitioncoordinator for Pittsburgh
Public Schools and has been withthe school system for 18 years.
Crystal spoke with me about theimpact transition services make
(01:09):
on not only a student withdisabilities and their families,
but also a community.
You'll also hear some thoughtson how employer outreach can
help work to destigmatize hiringan individual with disabilities
and a few success stories thatpoint to the importance of every
student having this quality ofprofessional and service in
their school.
Crystal, thank you so much forjoining us here on Inside
(01:30):
Rehabilitation Counseling.
I'm really excited to havesomeone working in transition
services on the show.
It's probably the area of workthat CRCs can pursue that we get
the most questions about,whether it's how do I get into
this type of work, why aren'tthere more CRCs working in
transition services and K-12systems?
But before we kind of dive intoyour current role, I just want
(01:51):
to learn a little bit about yourpath to becoming a certified
rehabilitation counselor.
When did you first know thatthis is what you wanted to be
doing?
Crystal Evans, CRC (01:59):
So I would say when I was in high school, I
always thought that I would besome type of a counselor.
I think more so mental healthcounseling at that time.
When I started college, myundergrad, I majored in
psychology and sociology.
So that, you know, just kind ofcontinued to spark my interest
in the field.
I knew I wanted to go on tograd school, but again, just
(02:19):
assumed that I would do sometype of counseling, mental
health counseling, even thoughtabout marriage counseling at one
point.
When I started, it wasn't untilI started going through the
list of graduate programs atWest Virginia University that I
learned what rehab counselingwas.
And I think what drew metowards that specific program
(02:40):
was that the variety ofdifferent areas that a rehab
counselor could work in,including, you know, mental
health agencies, schools.
So that that really piqued myinterest.
And then when I started thatprogram and did an internship, I
interned at a mental healthfacility in Morgantown, West
(03:01):
Virginia, and realized that thatwasn't something that I wanted
to do, which was a good.
I mean, it was a greatexperience.
But at the same time, I thinkat that point I was leaning more
towards Voke Rehab, staterehab, or schools.
So I ended up doing anotherinternship at the Pennsylvania
Office of VocationalRehabilitation here in
(03:21):
Pittsburgh and commuted thereevery day for my internship from
Morgantown to Pittsburgh andreally enjoyed that work.
So I ended up getting hiredthere.
I worked there for five yearsprior to coming on to the school
district.
Um but it was through my workthrough OVR where I had
predominantly a transition agecaseload.
So I worked with students ages14 and up at some of the local
(03:43):
uh city schools, in addition tosome of the schools in the
suburbs, um, and then had adultswith disabilities on my
caseload as well.
And I really enjoyed my workwith the students, um, the
transition age population.
And so when a position becameavailable with the schools, um I
ended up interviewing and havebeen here for I think 18 years.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (04:03):
And as you mentioned, like with your
internship, sometimes it it'shelpful to get into a work
setting and know, oh, this isn'tfor me, right?
And there's things to learnfrom that experience.
Absolutely.
Um and I'm sure, you know,there are parts that even
potentially running into partsof that work where you were
like, oh, I don't like this asmuch as I thought, or I might
want to be doing this a littledifferently.
That probably carries with youwhen you're going to a new work
(04:25):
setting and you're like, okay, Ikind of know what resonates
with me professionally.
And going back to kind of yourum initial reasoning for even
pursuing this field, you know,knowing the core of like what
you want to do, which it soundslike was very like um
action-oriented.
You wanted to make adifference.
And it's great that you wereable to find that kind of path
through transition uh services.
And you, as you mentioned,you've served as the transition
(04:47):
coordinator for uh PittsburghPublic Schools now for um you
said 18 years?
Crystal Evans, CRC (04:52):
Yeah, 2007.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (04:53):
So okay.
Tell me a little bit about thework that you do and uh maybe
like what a typical week lookslike with the work you're doing.
And I'm sure right now, newschool year, uh the weeks might
look a little bit different eventhan, you know, they do
January, February.
Crystal Evans, CRC (05:08):
Yeah, the beginning of the year and end of
the year are always thebusiest.
December is really the slowestmonth, and it's really even then
not really slow.
But part of my job includes umproviding support to our our
transition counselors.
So they used to be calledrehabilitation counselors, now
they're transition counselors.
Um, same requirements, samequalifications, same job duties.
Um, they were hired in ourdistrict, and just kind of kind
(05:31):
of to give a little bit ofbackground on them.
We our district started hiringrehabilitation counselors in the
late 70s.
And the intent back then was tohelp support our students with
IEPs, students that havedisabilities who are in our
career and tech ed programs, andto help provide them with you
know more support, the knowledgeof what might be out there as
(05:53):
far as work goes in a vocationalsetting.
So we've had CRCs and have beenhiring CRCs in our district
since the late 70s.
Currently, we have 14transition counselors or
rehabilitation counselors in ourschools.
They provide um they're thedirect point of contact for all
of our students that have IEPsages 14 through 21.
(06:14):
Students in our district canremain in school until the day
before they turn 22.
So they have their pace load.
Our counselors are providingthe direct support for students,
they're helping them plan forlife after graduation.
They're so they're looking atemployment, they're looking at
post-secondary education ortraining, and then independent
living.
So, what are we doing now whilethe still students are still in
(06:37):
high school to help preparethem for life after graduation?
So, part of my role in thedistrict is providing support to
all of those counselors.
Um, in addition, I also dotraining to our counselors and
special education teachers inregards to any uh federal or
state secondary transition lawsand regulations.
So indicator 13 has been a bigone.
Um, since I started in thedistrict, that's been you know a
(07:00):
training that I will go aroundand do with our staff, um,
including our charter schools.
And basically that's justmaking sure that we're providing
adequate transition services ina student's individualized
education program that will helpprepare them for life after
graduation.
So um that's kind of one aspectof my job.
We also have transitionprograms in our district where
(07:21):
we have students that will beworking at a real work site in
the community for part of theday, um, either supported by our
teachers, supported by a jobcoach, or just natural supports
on the work site.
So within those programs, Ialso provide support to our
transition programs as well.
So anything transition related,you know, I'm here to provide
(07:42):
that support.
What a typical day might looklike, I attend a lot of
meetings.
Umfortunately, now I'm notrunning from school to school
since we have the capability todo things uh virtually.
So it's a lot of teamsmeetings.
Um, it's a lot of just bouncingideas off of our program
coordinators and things.
And right now, just planningand preparation for getting our
programs up and running.
And we have some new staff thisyear that I'm providing support
(08:05):
to.
So that's kind of a typicalday.
And then my training, I will dothat training throughout the
school year as well on thecompliance and IEP writing.
Also, one thing I didn'tmention is maintaining contact
and connections with our localagencies that work with
students.
Um, that's another big part ofmy job.
We work very closely with ourVR where I used to work prior to
(08:25):
coming to the district.
We have OVR counselors assignedto all of our high school.
So just making sure that ourstudents, our staff are aware of
different agencies that canprovide support to students, um,
either while they're still inhigh school or once they
graduate, and just kind ofmaintaining those connections
throughout the years to makesure that we stay up to date on
what's out there, who's outthere, what are they providing,
(08:46):
because a lot has changed sincesince COVID.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (08:49):
So I could imagine, yeah.
And I keeping track of allthose different
cross-departmental um folks whoare working in or out of schools
or going from one school toanother is kind of a uh not not
a challenge, but um a uniquepart of that work as well
because it takes a lot oflogistics.
So when you said meetings, Iwas imagining I'm like, yeah, I
mean, those meetings probablytake up a huge chunk of your
(09:10):
week, but those are essential togetting those services to the
students.
So I think sometimes we hearfrom folks that are like, I
really want to be workingdirectly with the students or
the clients themselves.
And um, I I don't want to beaway from that part of the job.
And I always try to remindthem, I'm like, sometimes the
behind the scenes work is justas impactful because without all
of that planning and makingsure you have the right uh
(09:32):
counselors and the right teamthere to meet the needs of the
people you're serving, um,nothing happens.
So they're very uh lucky tohave you because it sounds like
you have a lot on your plate anduh we're we're grateful for the
work you're doing.
And it's really great also tohear a little bit about the uh
the history of the schooldistrict hiring rehabilitation
counselors.
I think we tend to think ofvocational rehab as, you know,
(09:55):
state agencies or uh veteranservices and stuff like that.
There's a deep history in thisprofession within transition
services, and we'd love, youknow, CRCC would love to see
even more CRCs entering thoseroles.
And, you know, for someone whohasn't worked very closely with
transition age clients orprovided transition services in
(10:16):
their career, what are some ofthe more unique aspects or
considerations that you and yourteam encounter?
And in what ways does being acertified rehabilitation
counselor equip you to managethese challenges?
Crystal Evans, CRC (10:26):
Um, I think for us having that background
and in not only rehabilitationcounseling, clinical mental
health counseling, um, buthaving that CRC is a whole
different type of training andcertification.
So it really sets us apart froma typical guidance counselor
because we have that trainingand background in working with
individuals with disabilities.
(10:47):
I think for me, having thatexperience and working for VR
prior to coming to the schooldistrict was unique because I
got to see the adult side of it.
Now I know, you know, kind ofwhat our students are working
towards whenever they leave us.
So that kind of gave me adifferent perspective on that.
But I just think, like I said,having that CRC is just a is is
unique in and of itself.
But implementing that and andthe knowledge and and the
(11:11):
qualifications that ourcounselors have is makes us
really unique.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (11:14):
Yeah.
And we we see um a lot of folkswho are providing services to
transition-aged youth come froma variety of backgrounds, right?
And there are so many essentialroles that go into a transition
system.
And I think, yeah, thatdisability and uh rehabilitation
background and education, andthen having to pass the exam
really goes a long way inshowing that you know you're
(11:36):
going to be able to meet thosestudents where they are and
figure out a path that's gonnawork best for them, which I
would imagine is gonna lookdifferently for every single
student you work with, just likeany, just like any adult
client.
I was kind of surprised bythis.
I was doing a little bit ofresearch before our
conversation, and you know, wetend to hear a lot of times that
just disability in general orstudents specifically with
(11:57):
disabilities are a bit of anoutlier, right?
According to the NationalCenter of Education Statistics,
though, 7.5 million, or theequivalent of about 15% of all
public school students, receivesome sort of uh special
education services in the 2022,uh, 2023 school year.
And to me, that's a verysignificant demographic that's
not just like, oh, you know,some students have disabilities.
(12:19):
That's a pretty significantportion of the broader public
school student population.
What are some misconceptionsthat you work to combat when it
comes to students withdisabilities, and particularly
as they enter that transitionage?
Crystal Evans, CRC (12:33):
I would say, you know, our students can do
anything that a student withouta disability can do.
I mean, they are, you know,they can work, they can go on to
further training, college,university, short-term training
program, trade or tech schools,and can live independent lives
as well.
So I think that's amisconception that some people
have, maybe not so much in aschool district, but we run into
that with employers sometimeswhen they they you know realize
(12:56):
that you know some of the kidsthat we're we're trying to to
bring in um might have adisability.
So I think and a lot of that Ithink stems from them just
knowing, not understandingdisability.
So a lot of times that takes useducating employers on, you
know, what is autism?
And just because you know, onestudent exhibits you know, these
(13:16):
challenges or these behaviorsdoesn't mean that they all do.
And we'll go in and educatethem on how to provide
accommodations or how to, youknow, provide the support that
might be necessary for anindividual or a student that's
on the work site.
Um, so I think just kind of umeducation, I would say, is is
one of the biggest things thatwe do with a lot of the
partnerships that we have andjust educating them about the
(13:38):
different types of disabilitiesand and getting our students
there on the work sites to showthem, hey, our our kids can do
this, our our students arecapable, just as capable of as
anybody else.
Um and not just working, butlike I said, even in a
post-secondary uh trainingprogram, post-secondary
education, um, you know, ourstudents can be just as
successful and obtain a degreeor or a certificate, just like
(14:02):
anybody else that doesn't have adisability.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (14:04):
Yeah, absolutely.
You know, kind of on the topicof employers and and kind of
helping them identifyingstudents exiting that K through
12 transition uh period aspotential job candidates, where
is the balance between, like yousaid, kind of just educating
employers on how disabilityisn't some disqualifying factor
(14:24):
for someone to get a job?
And how much of that also comeswith the work you do to help
students identify their skillsand even be able to articulate
those to an employer?
Crystal Evans, CRC (14:32):
It's a great question.
So a lot of times, you know,when we get students of a
transition age, that you know,there's a lot of them that don't
know they have a disability orthey know they have some
challenges, they might just say,you know, I'm I'm not good in,
I'm not very good in math, orI'm not good at reading.
Um, they may not understandthat it's a learning disability
or they have autism or anintellectual disability.
So it's really again useducating them.
(14:54):
We strongly encourage ourstudents to attend and not only
just attend, but participate intheir IEP meetings, you know, so
they are part of that planningprocess.
You know, we always say don'tlet your teachers and and
everybody else plan, you know,the next year for you.
We want you involved.
We want to know what yourinterests are, we want to know
(15:14):
what you want to do when yougraduate and what we can do to
help you to reach your goals.
So I think them coming in, alot of them may not know that
they have a disability.
So we're educating them in inthat regard, um, and just making
sure that they stay connected,they're engaged in their
education program through thegraduation.
Something else I wanted tomention that goes along with
(15:36):
that is just um teaching kidsself-advocacy.
I mean, that's that's huge.
So once they do, you know, havean understanding of their
disability, what their needsare, what accommodations are,
being able to ask for help whenneeded is extremely important.
So again, those are skills thatwe we start teaching, I mean,
as early on as possible, but ata minimum transition age, which
(15:57):
in Pennsylvania is 14 throughgraduation and ask for help.
Ask your teachers for help whenyou need it, ask your parents
for help when you need it.
And then of course, when theyget to the work site, we always
encourage that as well.
How would you go about if youare struggling on a work site or
you don't know what task isnext, or you don't know how to
do something, or you don't knowwhere something is, um, we want
to make sure that our studentsknow how to ask for help when
(16:18):
needed.
Self-advocacy,self-determination are huge.
They can be a b barrier to ourstudents, but we we want to make
sure those are those are skillsthat we teach students before
they leave us.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (16:28):
Yeah, and those can be tough concepts for
anybody to be able to put intopractice in the workplace.
Um particularly for people witha disability.
We know a lot of folks who aredisabled might try to not share
that with an employer uh forrisk of thinking they might get
treated differently or theymight be seen as less capable,
which we know tends to not bethe case, right?
(16:49):
Folks with disabilities in theworkplace tend to overperform
because they're looking tocompensate for discrimination
and things like that.
So it's that's kind of one ofthose reasons why I want to see
eventually more certifiedrehabilitation counselors
working with, I mean, anybodywith a disability, but students
in particular, those skillslearned at that, you know,
chapter of your life as itbegins to head into a new one
(17:11):
can be integral to being able tohave a career ahead of you that
says, no matter where I'mworking, I know how to explain
to my employer, like you said,what it is that I need to
succeed.
And also knowing that I cantell them, like, look, I could
be great at this work.
I just need to be put in theposition to do great.
And I need to be given thesesupports, and this is how this
(17:32):
is going to work best foreverybody involved.
And that's, you know, like Isaid, a challenging thing for
anybody to do.
But it's great to get thatexperience and those skills at
this age group that you'reworking with.
What sort of experiences in therole uh that you have with
Pittsburgh Public Schools haveshown you just how crucial it is
to have experts like yourselfand your team in these
(17:53):
transition students' lives?
Are there any success storiesthat stand out to you in your
time with the school districtthat really kind of are those
like, aha, this is why I do whatI do moments?
Crystal Evans, CR (18:04):
Interestingly enough, just two days ago, we
we have a uh one of ourtransition programs, our start
on success program, has an openposition for a special education
teacher.
Um, that program, this theteacher teaches classes, career
development classes in themorning, in the afternoon,
they're out in the communitychecking on students, seniors
who are doing a paid internship.
Of all the applicants that wehad, we ended up having a former
(18:27):
start on success student applyfor an interview for the
position.
So it was a student thatgraduated from Pittsburgh Public
Schools, I believe back in2009, 2010, did a paid
internship with us, I think atAllegheny General Hospital, and
then went on to get herbachelor's degree, and then went
on to even get her master'sdegree in special education, um,
(18:48):
and then became a specialeducation, a certified special
education teacher.
So it's really awesome to seesomeone that it's kind of full
circle, it brings it backaround.
Someone who has a disabilitywho, you know, went through one
of our transition programs andthen, you know, was able,
because of the skills andeverything that she learned, was
able to earn her bachelor'sdegree and then a master's
(19:09):
degree, and then ended up, youknow, interviewing for one of
our one of our positions for theprogram that she was in when
she was in high school.
So that that's really cool tosee.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (19:18):
How often does that happen that you kind
of get to come across thestudents who have gone through
the services that you provide?
Is that a common thing or isthat not really happening as
much?
Crystal Evans, CRC (19:28):
I wouldn't say that it's common.
Um I've run into some studentsout of at some places before
where I've been shopping orwhatever, and and it's it's
awesome to see them working orstill working in a place maybe
the where they were wheneverthey were with us.
We recently, and again, thisdoesn't happen often, but we've
had some some cases recentlywhere um, like I said, that the
girl I mentioned before that'snow a special education teacher
(19:51):
who interviewed.
Um, we have another student whojust graduated this past year
who was interesting and ininterested in becoming either a
teacher's aide or or somethinglike that in a classroom setting
or working with individualswith disabilities.
So she again went through oneof our transition programs, our
Start on Success program, didpaid internship, worked with the
summer um employment programhere called Learn and Earn,
(20:14):
where it's also a paid paidposition for her over the
summer, working with kids.
And then she ended up applyingfor and was recently hired as a
personal care aide in our schoolfor a contracted agency that
works with kids in our schooldistrict.
So again, someone who kind ofwent through the program working
with the people withdisabilities was an interest for
her.
And so some of the skills thatshe learned through the program
(20:37):
and our transition servicesreally helped her to get to
where she is.
So she was hired and isstarting, I think, this month in
October.
So that's exciting.
Um so again, the those Iwouldn't say that happens often
to where we have kids come backand work the dis we definitely
would encourage that.
I mean, you know, we havevarious positions where where
kids can work, um, either rightout of high school or just, you
(20:59):
know, with minimal training.
But just like I said, those area couple of things recently
that where we've had some kidskind of come back around in full
circle where they've beenthrough some of our programs.
So it's really awesome to see.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (21:10):
Yeah, that's so great.
And I really appreciate yousharing that because I think we
talk all the time about, youknow, CRCs help individuals with
disabilities, you know, achievetheir professional and personal
goals.
And those kind of uhindividualized journeys are so
impactful for peopleunderstanding why this work
matters and why it's soimportant.
And I think it's kind of a uhit's a relationship that's very
(21:31):
important that, you know, you'reliterally shaping your
community by helping thesestudents find their passion and
and go out and become, you know,contributing members of the
community and do great thingsand inspire the next generation
of students.
And um, you know, it's alsoessential that, you know, like
Pittsburgh Public School isbuying into that concept of why
it's so important to putprofessionals like yourself in
(21:53):
these positions because this isnot like a, you know, you work
with a student, they graduate,and it's like, okay, that's the
end of the story.
They have their own story nowto go on and write.
And that can be, like I said,community altering in such a
positive, impactful way.
And pointing to those kind ofsuccess stories are the best way
that we have to be able to showfolks who don't know about this
work, or maybe they know, like,oh, professionals work with
(22:15):
students with disabilities inthe classroom.
But why is it so crucial thatyou have those highly trained,
highly qualified professionalsin that role?
It's because they're going toliterally shape this person's
future to go on and shape otherfutures.
And as a non-CRC and anon-counselor, those are the
things that get me reallypassionate about, you know, the
work we do at CRCC where I'mlike, okay, cool.
Now I'm all fired up because Iwant to go tell people about
(22:38):
this and how how great the workyou do is.
And um, you know, that's that'sI guess why I'm here and why
the podcast exists.
So I appreciate you sharingboth of those stories.
Crystal Evans, CRC (22:47):
I do want, you know, I have to mention too,
it's it's not just us and andour CRCs that we work in the
schools, but it's you know,making sure that we stay in
communication and have a goodrelationship, establish a good
relationship with our familiesand our our students' families.
I mean, that's you know,terribly important because once
we go away, you know, once astudent graduates, then we want
to make sure that they haveanother team of support around
(23:07):
them.
So between the students'families, um, like I said, the
various agencies that we workwith, um, you know, OVR being
one of the bigger ones, um,Office of Developmental
Supports, depending on thestudents' disabilities, making
sure students have supportscoordinators.
So, you know, they allobviously have a hand in helping
our students be successfuladults as well.
And like you said earlier,being contributing members of
(23:29):
society.
That's that's what we want forall students.
So, but it it is great um tosee our students kind of come
back around and full circle, youknow, because we don't always
get to see that.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (23:40):
Yeah, of course.
Yeah, I appreciate you kind ofnoting that because I feel like
maybe it's just the way that Ispend my time where I'm
constantly telling people aboutCRCs and the work that you all
do, where it starts to almostsound like our master plan is to
have CRCs be every singleposition everywhere.
And really it's more the factthat multidisciplinary teams
lend themselves to successfuloutcomes for the people that
(24:02):
CRCs, you know, exist to serve,right?
So it's it's it's definitely agood call out on your behalf to
say, you know, CRCs have thisspecific skill set that when
partnered with the folks who arereally great at what they do,
and like you said, too, thefamilies at home who can help to
foster that self-efficacy andbe that support team uh prior or
uh after they exit that Kthrough 12 transition system,
(24:26):
um, that's where the workcontinues, right?
Like I said, the story doesn'tend on graduation day.
And it's it's really powerfulto see, you know, all these
different professionals cometogether in that school system
and then hopefully equipfamilies and friends and support
teams to uh continue toadvocate for uh their student
with a disability who is nowheading out into the working
world, as well as thatindividual uh student themselves
(24:49):
who's now going to be having todo some of that work themselves
to say, you know, here are myskills, um, here's what I know I
can bring to the table and kindof build on all the things that
they've been exposed to fromprofessionals like yourself and
your peers in the schooldistrict.
So I appreciate you callingthat out.
Sure.
Absolutely.
It what we would love to seemore is just that into
interdisciplinary team.
(25:10):
And what we do find from folksis, you know, there are a lot of
places that CRCs will say, Ithink like we have a role on
this team or in this worksetting, and they potentially
don't have CRCs on their team.
And that's kind of the goal,right?
Is to get them into as manyplaces where they can be working
with people with disabilitiesas possible.
Crystal Evans, CRC (25:28):
Absolutely.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (25:29):
We've featured a number of disability
service professionals at theuniversity level on this show,
and many of them have told usthat students they work with are
very clear on whataccommodation they know that
they need and will help them besuccessful.
There are certain instanceswhere a student might not know
all the accommodations that areavailable to them, but they say
a lot of students, especiallynow, come to them and say, I
(25:51):
know I need this, I need a notetaker, I need um to be able to
record lectures, things likethat.
They kind of come in ready tosay, This is what I'm looking
for.
Is that kind of a goal for thestudents that you're working
with who are nearing graduationand looking to pursue secondary
education?
Um, that kind of level of, Iknow what I need to be
successful and here's here'swhat I want to see.
Crystal Evans, CRC (26:12):
Absolutely.
So again, not only on the worksite do we want them to know,
you know, be able to ask forhelp and if they need
accommodations to kind of havean understanding of what they
might need.
But if they're going on to sometype of further training and a
post-secondary educationprogram, um, again, that's why
we stress them attending theirIEP meetings because we talk
about that.
Well, here's how you're doingin these classes, you're getting
(26:33):
these supports, you're gettingthese services, you're getting
um, you know, theseaccommodations.
This is what's helping you.
Extra time on tests.
Um, you know, maybe it'spreferential seating, sitting in
towards the the front of theclassroom, um, having a note
taker, for example.
So those are things, you know,not we know that um there's
different, you know, it movesfrom entitlement to eligibility
(26:54):
once our students leave us.
And so there's different thingsthat a college may or may not
be able to provide that weprovide.
However, a lot of those thingsdo overlap.
And and just so we want to makesure that our students know
there are accommodations outthere.
It might look a little bitdifferent than what you received
when you were in in highschool.
Um, but if you do go on tofurther training, then we want
(27:15):
to make sure that they know thatyou know what accommodations
work for them and who to seekout for that.
You know, that's something, youknow, if we have a student
that's going on to um our localcommunity college here in
Allegheny County, who is the thethe contact for disability
services?
What you know, what could theypotentially provide?
There are accommodations thatyou might be eligible for.
(27:37):
Make sure you ask for help.
And we always tell ourstudents, you know, if if you
you're not sure where to go, whoto see, what to ask, come back
to us.
Like our counselors would wewould never tell someone, I
can't work with you anymore.
You've you've alreadygraduated.
Of course, we're not going todo that.
So we're always more thanwilling um to help in that
aspect or you know, make surethat they're reconnected or
(27:57):
connected with the VR systembecause the the OVR counselors
can help with that as well.
Um, so yes, definitely, youknow, understanding what
accommodations might beavailable to them um whenever
they're in the post-secondaryeducation program is is
extremely important.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (28:12):
Yeah, and that's a great point you made
about, you know, theaccommodations or the offerings
might be a little bit different,but that's kind of where that
idea of um articulating yourfunctional limitations is so
important, right?
They might not be able to go inand get exactly what they had
during their K through 12experience, but they can at
least say, I know that I do mybest when I am put in this sort
of position to succeed, or whenI have these supports.
(28:35):
And ideally, right, the the umaccessibility coordinator at
that university orpost-secondary school will be
able to say, okay, we kind ofhave a version of that.
And it's a it's a lot betterthan having a student.
We've even had CRCs that I'vespoken with who maybe didn't
receive any sort ofaccommodation for a disability
that they maybe really didn'tfully understood they have until
(28:56):
they go to college and they getto talk to an accessibility
coordinator or ADA you knowmanager or something like that.
And finding thoseaccommodations after the fact
are kind of um deflating becausethey're like, I could have had
this in my corner the wholetime.
And it's that's why to me,highlighting the work that you
do in transition services as aCRC is so impactful because
(29:18):
getting that exposure to thosethings early on means that you
know how to seek out thoseaccommodations throughout the
rest of your life that are goingto be the difference between
feeling like you're not maybecut out to do something when we
know for the most part a lot ofaccommodations are fairly
straightforward and really youjust need to be able to talk to
the right people who can providethem and connect you to the
(29:40):
people who provide them.
And knowing how to do that atthat K through 12 age, you know,
like you said, 14 and on, um,can really give you that self
efficacy, that self advocacythat um is gonna carry a long
way as you can continue to gothrough your life.
Crystal Evans, CRC (29:55):
I think one thing we're very fortunate
within the city of Pittsburgh tohave a lot of resources
available.
We're close to everything.
So, you know, being on a busline is and and and getting bus
transportation is typically notan issue for us and our
students.
So we're able to travel.
Um, so one thing that we doreally promote is you know, if
we have students who areinterested in going on for some
(30:16):
type of post-secondary trainingprogram, or maybe they're just
not sure.
We we promote a lot of um youknow job shadowing and and
college tours, whether they'revirtual or on site.
If we do take them on site, wealways make sure that we we take
them to see where disabilityservices is, meet with a person
there to just just to get themacclimated.
(30:36):
Because sometimes that comfortlevel might be all it takes for
them to say, hey, I can do this.
Now I feel a little bit morecomfortable now, even prior to
them graduating, that they knowwhere to go and who to see, um,
and that they can get thatsupport if needed whenever they
do go on for further training.
Something else that um our CRCsdo, they're responsible for
(30:57):
administering transitionassessments for our students
starting at age 14.
So different career interestinventories and things like
that.
One thing we try to promote areum um learning styles.
So, how do you learn best?
So the results of a learningstyle assessment will tell a
student are they more of avisual learner?
Are they more an auditorylearner?
So those that's something elsethat they can kind of take
(31:19):
either to an employer orpost-secondary training program
and say, I learned best byreading the material.
Like I, you know, someone mightstruggle just hearing a
professor, you know, kind ofgoing through, you know, a topic
or whatever, but they learnbest by having some materials
presented to them um, you know,in written format, or vice
versa.
So that again is just somethinganother tool that um a lot of
(31:42):
our students can take with themwhenever they leave up, leave us
once they have that cadre ofassessments.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (31:48):
But that's one of the things about the
experience of working with theCRC I find so fascinating is
that assessment and that kind ofstep one, let's figure out what
sort of limitations arepresent, not because we are
deficits focused, but becausethat's how we understand what's
the best way to proceed towardthose goals that we're setting.
That's such a powerful thing tobe able to start with and then
(32:09):
say, I know what resources inthe community I can connect the
student with, or what methods oflearning or exposure to
information I know are proven tobe most effective for somebody
who does better with thisinstead of that, or vice versa.
And I find that that kind ofcreative thinking in the scope
of providing disability servicesto me is what really seems to
(32:31):
set CRCs apart because there'sso much of that, you know, first
you got to figure out what'sgoing on.
And then, you know, the harderpart really sometimes is like,
okay, well, what do we do tomitigate what this person's
experiencing?
And sometimes that can be splitinto multiple professionals.
And, you know, like we'vementioned, it's not just one CRC
who's in there, you know,what's superman or superwoman
(32:53):
doing everything themselves, buthaving the knowledge of how to
systematically go through thosesteps, starting with assessment,
and then have those connectionsready to be able to provide to
the student is just such a, tome, priceless asset for a school
district, a hospital, any sortof employer who's looking to
either serve people withdisabilities as uh customers or
(33:13):
clientele or to be able to hirepeople with disabilities because
you're really getting thatbreadth and depth of knowledge
that comes with the training uhthat you have as a CRC that just
seems so integral to what you'dwant to achieve on behalf of
someone with a disability orhelp to seek them to achieve.
And it just it to me, it's oneof those things where I'm like,
(33:34):
we just need to apparently makeevery employer listen to this
podcast so they hear the workthat you do.
Um wouldn't hurt our wouldn'thurt our analytics either.
So I'd be happy about that too.
Um so we'll work on that,right?
That's for another episode.
Um uh we tend to end theseconversations the same way
because something that always umdraws me in talking to CRCs
(33:56):
like yourself is just howpassionate about this work that
you are.
And um, many CRCs havedescribed, you know, pursuing
this profession as a callingthat they answered, maybe a
calling they didn't even knowwas out there.
Um so I I I'm I'm curious tohear from you what brings you
the most joy in the work thatyou do?
Crystal Evans, CRC (34:13):
Um, I would say for me, just seeing our
students success once they oncethey leave us.
I mean, that that's the pointis is is what and what I do and
what we do as CRCs in ourdistrict is to prepare kids for
life after graduation.
And that's gonna look differentfor everybody, regardless of
the disability.
But to see them be successful,whether it's you know working in
competitive employment in thecommunity, um, maybe it's just
(34:35):
getting the right support, maybeit's getting connected to the
appropriate agencies that reallyhelp them.
Um, independent living, beingable to live as independently as
possible, um, that is reallyexciting to see.
And and I would say, you know,a lot of times we do see student
success once they leave us, butyou know, sometimes we don't
always kind of hear that, maybenot initially, but maybe later
(34:56):
on down the road, just like Ithe stories I mentioned earlier.
Um, or we see them out in thecommunity, you know, like, hey,
you used to, you know, you werein one of our programs.
It's awesome that you're doinggreat.
So I would say, I mean, thatagain, that just solidifies, you
know, the importance of havingCRCs working in the schools and
helping to prepare kids,bringing the knowledge that our
CRCs have um to the work that wedo is is, you know, it's just
(35:21):
incredible.
And I would say that's that'sthe that's the thing that makes
me the most passionate aboutwhat I do is is just, you know,
I might not be directly workingwith each student, but you know,
kind of in the in thebackground and supporting the
programs and supporting our CRCsand what they do.
But I know that, you know, mywork is is helpful and it it's
helping students to besuccessful and and independent
(35:42):
whenever they leave.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (35:46):
A huge thank you to Crystal Evans for an
excellent conversation on thisepisode of Inside Rehabilitation
Counseling.
If you have any comments orinsights to share on today's
topic, email us at contact us atcrccertification.com.
That is where you can also letus know about topics you would
like us to explore on the show.
You can find us on Facebook,Instagram, and LinkedIn by
(36:08):
searching CRC Cert.
Like, subscribe, and rate theshow on your favorite podcast
platform, including Spotify,Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you're listening to us today.
Thank you as always forlistening to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling.
I'm CRCC, Director ofCommunications and Marketing
Taylor Bauer.
Take care.
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