March 27, 2025 • 48 mins
Joseph Young is a Certified Rehabilitation Counselor, an LRC in Massachusetts, and owner of JOSEPH YOUNG CONSULTING, L.L.C.
In this conversation, Joe shares his perspective on the importance of credentials, his journey with an invisible disability, and how CRCs who want to start their own private practice can begin their journey to working for themselves.
Link to Joseph's Business Website: https://josephyoungconsulting.com/
CRCC Job Board: https://crccertification.com/joblisting/current-job-postings/
If you are interested in submitting a position to the CRCC Job Board, please click here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
It is been a while since we've explored private
practice opportunities on theshow. Many episodes of inside
rehabilitation counseling beginwith a conversation at CRCC. We
may be working with an educatoror practitioner on a project
and think, Hey, we might wantto discuss some of these topics
on the podcast. For thisepisode, the conversation with
our guest began with a joblisting. The CRCC job board
(00:28):
hosts positions from all overthe country. And today's guest
reached out to list a positionwith his private practice. We
talked a bit about hisconsulting business, and from
there I knew our audience wouldwant to hear about his story.
Joe Young is a certifiedrehabilitation counselor in LRC
in Massachusetts, and owner ofJoseph Young Consulting LLC. In
(00:50):
this conversation, Joe shareshis perspective on the
importance of credentials andhow CRCs who want to start
their own private practice, canbegin their journey to working
for themselves. I wanna startwhere we start with a lot of
these conversations and justkind of get to know where you
first learned aboutrehabilitation counseling. Can
you tell me a little bit aboutyour journey to where you , um,
(01:10):
are today in the profession andkind of how you got there?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Sure. And my pleasure to, to, you know, be
here and thanks for theopportunity. So, certainly, so
I started in the professionlater in life, really. Um, I, I
always would joke that I'm wasthe old saying , um, jack of
all trades , master of none. Solike I, I kind of was in and
out of a lot of different areasof work when I, through my
(01:35):
twenties and thirties. And ,um, you know, I had got my
bachelor's degree fromNortheastern and, you know, I
looked into, I think humanservice work was something that
I always felt drawn to, eventhough for a while I did, you
know, I did some other thingsthat were more dealing with
things, not people. But anyhow,when I was doing some training
(01:57):
work with , um, employees at myjob in financial services, and
this was probably when I was inmy mid to late thirties, I
started , uh, volunteeringthrough a community action
program. And what happened is Ibasically went to a homeless
shelter, or veteran shelter inBoston, and I volunteered, and
(02:21):
I basically got a team togetherof , of coworkers and went over
there and we did like the servefood. Um, and, you know, we
spoke with veterans and Inoticed that a lot of the folks
I went over there with, I thinkbecause of various background
differences, a lot of 'em werelike business majors. And I'm
not saying they weren't , um,social, but I believe that I
(02:45):
was the one out of, I wasprobably the only one out of
the whole group that really waslike interacting with the
veterans. And I think justbecause of maybe the background
I came from, I do have a familyhistory of in the military, but
it's more than that. It's justthe fact that I think that I
could kind of empathize with alot of them because I had my
own disabilities, you know ,um, you know what , that I
(03:08):
found out I was experiencing in, you know, my thirties. So
anyway, I did, because of thatexperience at the shelter, I
started getting more involved.
Um, I did training at my ownemployers with people on site ,
but I also started volunteeringmore and more over at the
shelter on my own time. Andthat kind of led me to do some
(03:29):
research into college programsbecause I had an undergraduate
degree back in the latenineties. And, you know, here I
am, you know, it was 2000, late2010 to 12 or 13, something
like that. So I'm like, I need, I was, where I was at, I felt
like I needed to expand. Like,I felt like my career was kind
of stagnant. Um, and I was ,wasn't really fit out. Um, I
(03:55):
really wasn't ha my skillsetwasn't fit to where I was at. I
always liken it to like be in asquare peg, trying to fit into
a circle, you know. Um, so I ,I basically research found
somebody at UMass Boston , um,in reality, which I found out
later, it was one of the betterprograms in, in the country for
(04:15):
rehabilitation counseling. AndI, I actually found a contact
over there that was, I wouldsay was kind of a mentor to me.
I'll mention his name, billCarlow . He's, he ran like a
substance abuse program overthere. And, but he also had a
master's degree. And he hadtold me about the CRC
credential. 'cause I wanted tokind of tie in working with
(04:37):
people with disabilities and ,um, vocational because I was
someone that was doing that,you know, also managing some,
some invisible disabilitiesmyself. So I think that all
wrapped into one. And I kindof, I just ended up enrolling
at UMass. I found out they hadthe , um, the RSA grant, which
allowed , uh, folks to go thereand get their grad graduate
(05:00):
degree , um, basically free ofcharge as long as you were
working in the fieldafterwards. And , um, from
there, I just kind of, I wasgoing to school part-time,
hybrid whatever I had to do.
Um, and then my last year Iended up leaving my, my older
employer and just focused on mygraduate studies. And , um, I
(05:21):
did internships and I kind ofwas off, off and running from
there. That's
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Fantastic. Thank you for walking us through that. I
think you definitely hear oftenthat people who end up in this
profession are interested inhelping people. And even in
particular, like you mentioned,they don't only want to help
people, but they, they have aknack for connecting with
people. And it sounds like thatexperience with the veterans
really kind of hold some piecestogether for you and realize
that this would be a professionthat you would not only enjoy,
(05:48):
but it it'd sell in. And that'scertainly the case. Now. You
are currently running your ownbusiness , um, as a CRC and ,
uh, an LRC in the state ofMassachusetts. Walk me through
what led to you starting yourown business. We hear a lot of
times that people who are inthis profession want to do
that. Um, and I'm just curious,what tools or resources were
helpful to you through theplanning and launching process
(06:10):
of your business? And , um,when did you know you wanted to
take that path , uh, withinrehabilitation counseling?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So as you said , um, you know, when you, it's
everything's about experiencein life , um, and running into
, um, situations that you'rehaven't been familiar with
before, and whether by chanceor , um, networking or whatnot.
So when I finished my degree, Iwas networking with , um, my
(06:40):
focus was at the time, like myinternship I did at the
Middlesex Sheriff's Department, um, as a job developer. And
it was something I kind ofcreated on my own. It wasn't
some , most folks at UMasswould go to mass rehab, which
is now mass ability . Um, and,and they were, I ended up
working with them indirectlyover the next couple years. But
(07:02):
my internship was more workingwith individuals that were
incarcerated or in pro thecourt system. So I was kind of
just a , a , something that Iwas drawn to because I did have
a background in prior andcorrections and law
enforcement. So , um, when Igot into that, you know, I, I
just started seeing, workingwith these individuals and
(07:23):
thinking there's a lot of , um,like grant opportunities and
things of that nature. They'reout there that I came aware of
from people that I was workingwith, whether they were a
nonprofit or whatnot. And so Idid some research and I found a
posting for , um, at the timefor, well, I was working at the
time for the state and as awell , uh, counselor for the
(07:47):
department, department mentalhealth. And I found out about
this , uh, contract positionwhere you could do social
security expert witnesstestimony. And I did contract
work with that. I interviewedand, and got the job. And it
was a contract role. And Iliked it because I did do some
in person , but I also could doit at home. And just looking
(08:09):
into that, doing research, Irealized that , um, you know,
there was a contract coming upand I , and I read into it
about what I needed to kind ofapply. And I looked at the
requirements and I felt like I,I met the requirements. Um, saw
that experience there, kind ofled me to getting into the
government contracting. Andfrom there I just researched
(08:31):
about, well, I'm gonna do thison my own, then I should
research about runningbusiness. 'cause I'm not, you
know, like a lot of folks thatstart , um, they're not really
, um, folks with like an MBA orbusiness minded, but I think
that, so your , your skillsethas to come first in , in the
job that you're doing and thenyou're running your business.
(08:54):
Um, is, is important, but it's,you need that first initial ,
uh, opportunity in the field.
So again, like if you're, ifyou're running your own
business in anything, evenfolks, I went to school with
folks that were mental healthcounselors. You know, they
didn't just start their ownpractice, you know, without
having done research and foundothers that started it , um,
(09:16):
after getting experience in thefield. So I think it's a
combination. My l my age,'cause I did start later on in
life, this career as a CRC. SoI had a lot of life and job
experience. Um, and just beingexposed to that contract work
was kind of like my, my , um,gave me a , um, springboard, so
(09:37):
to speak, to start. And thenthe rest of the stuff I think
you can do, especially nowadayswith AI and, and the internet,
you can really find out ways tostart your own business and
kind of manage that. Um, butyou know, it , it , it's always
helpful to have ex network withfolks that have already done it
(09:57):
ahead of you before you and I,I definitely did use that , um,
you know, to my advantage by,through the networks I made,
through grad school, myinternship as well as , um,
folks in the VE world because ,um, there is , uh, professional
networks you can join and youcan network with folks. So ,
(10:20):
um, but yeah, it was, it was,that was kind of what led me to
that. And again, I think thateverybody nowadays too has that
entrepreneurial spirit and it'seven being pushed in schools
now where they're recognizingtraining that in classes. And I
think that I, that came aroundthe time that, you know, I ex ,
you know, I experienced this ,um, self-employment. So, but
(10:44):
that's, that's really where I,I kind of had that opportunity
is with that contract work. Andit just expanded from there.
And I did add some otherservices as well as I kind of
went along, but that was my, Ineeded that anchor because when
you start a business, you needto have that client that keeps
the lights on, so to speak. Sothat was kind of for me,
(11:05):
otherwise I couldn't have goneout just on my own. And if I
had just like a la cartefreelance work, I still
would've had to work for, atthe time I was working for the
federal government as a va, aVA counselor, and when I got my
contract, it allowed me to kindof go on my own. Um, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah, we , uh, obviously
have a lot of courses atC-R-C-C-E University and every
, uh, month when I'm looking atsales reports and trying to
figure out like what courses dowe want to keep reminding
people that we offer, one ofthe top selling ones is always
how to start a privatepractice, you know? Um , I
think, like you said, theentrepreneurial spirit is, has
, has always been strong withpeople, but especially now, you
(11:46):
even see a lot of folks who, asyou just mentioned, maybe work
full-time somewhere and arejust starting to maybe dabble a
little bit in some contractwork or freelance work , um,
obviously for the money, butalso like in your, in your
case, the exposure to thatworld. So you can kind of dip
your toe in without just maybeone day saying, I'm gonna quit
my job at state VR and head in,you know, head first . And
(12:09):
getting, getting exposure tothat is really important
because we have a lot of peoplewho are working in private
practice and , and many ofthem, you know, might be CRCs
who haven't had exposure to a ,a contract position like you
had. What would you say tosomeone who wants to go into
private practice? Were , werethere any like, lessons or kind
of takeaways when you startedout that you think might be
(12:30):
helpful for them to, to know orhear about?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Sure. And you touched base on this a little
bit. Um, number one is you, youcertainly, you don't want to go
into private practice , um, atleast full-time without having
, um, a steady , um, clienteleor income. Um, whether you have
a governmental contract work oryou , um, you know, you have
(12:57):
something else where you cansay, okay, you know, I can
leave. Because it's one thingyou realize when you start a
business is , you know, it's,it's , I like the pros over the
cons, but the one thing youhave to adapt to that, folks
that are, especially peoplethat work in human services,
they usually work for thegovernment , um, or a nonprofit
. They, you know, they'll losebenefits. So that's one thing
(13:19):
you always have to factor in.
So your situation may depend onthat, you know, if you're
married or you're single, and,you know, it may be more
feasible for some than others,but you need to have that
secure because of the contractat work I did for about a year,
I did while I was also workingfull time . So like you said,
you just, I just , just up andI didn't up and leave until I
(13:41):
was able to secure something.
Um, but I would say the biggestthing is just get experience.
Because even folks that I bringon , um, for contract work now,
they have to have at least fiveyears experience of direct
placement. Now that doesn't,you know, that means like you,
it doesn't mean like you couldhave worked in human services
as , you know, doing mentalhealth or doing intakes or
(14:04):
whatever. It has to be reallydirect specified experience. So
one thing I've noticed, folkscoming to me looking to fill up
positions I've sought , um, isthat a lot of times they're, I
can't bring them on becausethey just don't have that
experience. And I think theexperience is important because
not just for knowing yourcraft, but it's also, it helps
(14:26):
you empathize with the peoplethat you are working with. Um,
but the other piece is thecredentials. I always say you
need academic too, like peoplethat to advance and to get
recognition and for yourresume, you need to have those
credentials. Um, I've alsoturned folks down that have
worked in VR work for decades,but they never really went out
(14:48):
of the way to get , um, A CRCcertification or an A BVE or,
or , um, A CVE, whatever, youknow, whatever. Like, I know
some friends of mine used tojoke about having all those ,
um, those letters after yourname. But you know, in some
ways it does. Um, it isnecessary. I mean, it , it's
(15:10):
something that you do learnfrom these organizations. You
learn from going to school. But, um, so you need to have that
combination. I always say that,so if you're, if you're heavy
in one area and light in theother, then always try to make
up where your light, 'causeyou'll always focus on your
weaknesses. Um, and I thinkthat's something I've learned
over the time. And I also wouldsay that, you know, the , the
(15:34):
next thing, and this is prettymuch I think, common sense,
especially as you get older ,um, networking is, is huge. Um,
I mean, I've networked with CRCfor example, and you guys
posted , um, you know, somethings on, on the website. I
actually hired somebody fromthat posting and I've had a
bunch of other folks, you know,come to me. Um, and it's been,
(15:59):
you know, a very, a goodopportunity. And I think,
'cause I , I do have kept intouch with, you know , um, CRC
monitoring them, I'm I onLinkedIn. And so the networking
piece is huge. Um, just try tonetwork, whether it's doing
kind of , uh, when I say coldcall, I mean reaching out via
email or, or internet, going onLinkedIn, doing networking ,
(16:22):
um, just getting that out theredepending on what you're
interested in. You know, ifyou're doing long term short
term disability, workers' comp,private , um, insurance, you
know, you have to be able tofind, you know , ways to get
your name out there to beknown. And I think everybody
knows that in , in vocationalworld, everybody knows that
(16:42):
word of mouth is the most , uh,prevalent way people end up
getting a job. It still existstoday. Um, I think it's just,
it's just a way of the worldstill, even though with, you
know, and it's gotta be basedon merit, but a lot of times
you can have 10 applicants thatare all equal, but the one that
kind of has familiarity fromsomebody, you know, that's why
(17:04):
companies offer references. Sothat's, you know, those are the
two things is getting yourexperience and your credentials
as well as a network and reallypush that networking. And I
think that kind of will helpyou , um, move forward in your
business.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, yeah, no , those are both great pointers
and you know, with networking,there's kind of an art to it.
'cause it's not always a matterof you have worked for me, it's
more just like getting to knowpeople who are in the
profession. 'cause you neverknow weeks, months, years down
the line when that might end upbeing a , a , a potential
avenue for you to explore for anew career, a new position in
your case, potentially hiringsomeone, someone onto to your
(17:41):
consulting business. And , um,it's great to hear that the job
board , uh, worked out well foryou. We, it's one of our most
visited pages and I know manyof the roles are in person , so
they might not all pertain toeverybody looking on there. But
we have listings as the per , Ican say this as a , um, as the
person at CRC who updates thatwe have listings come in every
single day , uh, whether it bestate, v state vr , um, remote
(18:04):
opportunities, things likethat. And while there might not
be something in your state oneday by the next week, there,
there are certainly otheropportunities. And , um, there
are also a , a number of remoteopportunities and hybrid things
like that, that are openingdoors for people to not just be
limited to where they live aswell. But , um, you made a a
really great point as well withthe credentials because we hear
(18:24):
often that, you know, for , uh,for many practice settings, the
CRC credential might not berequired as a, you have to have
this. But we do hear frompeople all the time that that
ends up kind of being thedifference makers . Have you
invested that not only gettingthe master's degree, but
passing the exam, which is a ,a rigorous exam and takes a lot
of work, and then maintainingthat and getting those
(18:46):
continuing education creditsand that , that , that shows a
commitment to the work that youdo that , um, even if not
necessarily required in a jobdescription , um, does show the
hiring manager something. Andwe are even hearing now for
people who are applying to jobswithin accommodations or return
to work where maybe they're noteven aware of the CRC
(19:06):
credential, they just needsomeone to do those services
that when they see the CRC,those letters do catch your
eye. 'cause you're like, okay,well what does that stand for?
Then you look into it a bitmore and maybe in an interview
you're able to articulate whatskills you bring to the table
based on your education andthat credential. And it , it ,
it does go a long way. So it,it's great to hear that that's
something that you've seen makea difference as well in your
(19:28):
business and, and career.
Speaking of, you know, remotepositions and things like that
, um, rehabilitation counselingservices have begun to offer
remote and blended services and, um, as you mentioned in your
line of work, there is a lot ofwork that can happen remotely
or not in the same location, aas the people you're working
alongside. What benefits haveyou experienced to things
(19:51):
related to virtual casemanagement or rehabilitation
counseling services? And whatconsiderations need to be taken
when you're providing theseservices virtually?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
That's a good question. So, and it's true, I
mean, not just with covid , Ithink Covid kind of opened up
people's eyes where a lot ofproficiency can be performed
from homes. You know, withtechnology nowadays , um, you
know, a lot of times that isbeneficial and in , in , in
fact, before Covid, when Iworked at the va, one of the
(20:23):
biggest , um, barriers for alot of veterans coming in to
apply for benefits , uh, Iworked in Boston at the time,
was to getting there. Um, itwas so frustrating for 'em to
get there and then find parkingor get transportation and, you
know, the , the clienteleyou're dealing with, a lot of
(20:43):
folks that aren't, you know,they have a lot of issues with
, um, you know, psychological,cognitive , um, physical
issues. So I started getting,and I started kind of pushing
for this, but a lot of thefolks there brought this to me
where they were like, well,let's have you do a lot of
these phone on phone inintakes. Um, so that was
(21:06):
something that was moving, theywere moving towards that even
before covid . And then, Idon't know if they're doing it
still now, I think maybe somehybrid, but , um, a lot of
folks may be going back tobrick and mortar, but I think a
lot of folks are still allowinghybrid work , um, if not full
remote work. And I think thebenefit of that is easy. It's
(21:27):
easier on the clients and that, uh, the transportation issues
, um, with technology nowadays,in my experience , um, every,
even my clients that are, youknow, folks I've dealt with
that were homeless and or werein shelters, I mean, everybody
seems to have a smartphone andeverybody seems to know how to
use apps and , um, it's notlike it was years ago. We like,
(21:50):
well, nobody has this or that.
I mean, most of my clients thatare , um, that I work with that
are through say, the ticket towork program or workers' comp
have proficiency in email. Um,and it's, you know, it's very
simple. Um, now the, thechallenges with that is , um,
obviously the, the personalconnection , um, for the social
(22:16):
security work I do, it's not ,um, as an issue because we're
supposed to be objective. We'renot really working with folks
as a client. We're justoffering our expertise opinion.
Um, it's, it's less , uh, it's,it's informal, but it's not
really, we're not focusing onthe individual. We're just
focusing on hypotheticals andthe world of work. So I think
(22:37):
the, the phone hearings we doare , um, you know, it's
beneficial. They offer thatmore now in social security ,
um, for , um, disabilityhearings, phone as well as
video, you know , the MS teamvideo still allows folks with
physical ailments to presentthemselves physically. So the
judge can kind of get a feel ofhow they're performing or what
(22:59):
they're dealing with withouthaving them to actually travel
into a location physically. Sothose are benefits. Um , but
obviously the , the negative isthat, you know, we do, when
you're working with folks as ona one-to-one basis, like
traditional VR work, which Istill do, ticket to work
programming and workers' comp,that is where I try to go out
(23:23):
at least once or twice to visitin person , because you need to
have that connection anddevelop that rapport. And then
after that, usually it's okayjust to do a lot of electronic
things , um, communication. SoI think there's a balance there
that works , um, for folks that, you know, get used to it. I
prefer hybrid over anything.
(23:44):
Um, maybe like a percentagehybrid. So like if I do
workers' comp , um, or ticketto work, it's, it's probably 80
20 or 75, 25, we're remote, 75to 80 , um, you know, in person
maybe 25, 20 to 25%. 'cause youneed that. You do need some
face to face time . Um, but interms of other work, and a lot
(24:06):
of folks that work privateinsurance, that can all be done
remote other than, you know ,unless you have to testify. And
that doesn't happen often. So Ithink that's something that,
you know, the hybrid work is,is beneficial. And I think,
again, a lot of folks aresticking with that , um,
because they realized throughcovid , one of the positives, I
(24:27):
guess, is that , um, theyrealize that people can be
effective and there are a lotof benefits from remote work.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Y you mentioned obviously accessibility for ,
um, for, for the client toensure that they're not having
to deal with transportationissues or , um, added hurdles
to, to , to this situation.
They , they might already betrying to traverse. There's
also the matter of the factthat we, we know in a lot of
places there aren't enough CRCsto help all of the people who
(24:54):
have disabilities who needthese services. So the ability
to use remote and, and virtualwork and , and settings to
provide these services isreally a way to break down
barriers that are related to,you know, a population of , uh,
people who live in rural areasthat might not be near state
vocational services, or atleast not, not near enough to
make it convenient and to makeit a headache to have to figure
(25:15):
out. And I think you see thatwith a lot of , um, the medical
profession as well. You know,I, I had read at one point, I,
I forget what the article was,but they thought that, again,
like you said, one of thepositives of of the pandemic
was that it sped up thevirtualization of, of the
medical profession by almost adecade because they realized we
can do some of this virtually.
Some of it you can't, which istotally understandable. And
(25:37):
like you said, the the personalconnection in person really
can't be, can't be matched. Butwith some of these services
just needing to be check-insand conversations and , um,
even as you mentioned , uh,video being a way to see
somebody, a lot of that canhappen virtually. And that
really breaks down barriers forpeople who might not live near
services and might in turn,because of that decide, I, I
(25:59):
can't have those servicesbecause they're not near me.
And it , it's really transtransformational to know that
this can be a way that , uh,CRCs can connect to clients who
they might not have easy accessto, which is great for the
client and great for thecounselor as well. And
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I liken it to the , like , you , we can't go back
to, it's like, you know, whenyou , I'm an older, so
I use these, these , um, I usethese squ , um, like, you know,
when you invent the car, youdon't go back to the, the , the
horse, you know, and buggy.
You, you, when you go to hybridor you go to remote and it's
(26:33):
effective, you can't go back.
Um, or you shouldn't go backjust because you're in this
mindset of, well, the personhas to be responsible and be in
, we have to see them. It'slike that old mindset. And I
think that when you see theeffectiveness , um, I think
it's important. And, and onething to mention, I don't have
this, but a lot of folks , um,that work in remote work that ,
(26:54):
um, say like Amazon or thingsof that nature, I , I know
folks that work with , um, youknow, dis um , with benefits
and things of that nature,accommodation requests , um,
you know, they have to rethey're monitored, so they have
to get production done. So itdoesn't make sense to try to
punish people by saying, well,you have to be here in the
office if you can get it done.
(27:16):
Um, and , and because theyalways say, and it's true, like
a happier employee is a , abetter employee. So that's just
my, my thing too is I thinkthat I, I always push back
about that idea that we have togo back to this, you know , in
brick and mortar type workbecause , and I'm 52 and I grew
up in the generation that, hey,you should be in work. And I'm
(27:38):
myself don't agree with that,
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Right? Yeah. And the productivity conversation is
also very harmful forindividuals with disabilities
because there's that assumptionby a lot of folks that if you
have a disability, you cannotbe as productive as someone who
doesn't have a disability. Whenin turn, we know that a lot of
times people with disabilitiesare going to work harder
because they want to compensatefor the fact that they're being
(28:00):
overlooked and , and not justin work, right? But in society
and to, to force return tooffice , uh, things for reasons
that aren't anything, but justlike a , a psychology of we
need you in the office, right ?
We need you in a building,right ? It is not only harmful
to employees who are enjoying abetter work life balance at
home, but also to employeeswith disabilities who all of a
(28:22):
sudden now have to figure outthings like, how do I get to
work? I'm not going to have thesame resources. And of course,
employers are meant to , uh,provide accommodations and
things like that, but those arethings that they don't have to
worry about right now becausethey're able to work remotely.
And so when you saw a lot ofthose pushes back to the office
happen, I think an unintendedconsequence was you're
alienating a lot of people whodo not have , um, the same
(28:46):
accessibility requirements inoffice that they would at home.
And Right . It definitelycaused ,
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's
Speaker 1 (28:52):
True . It definitely cause problems. Yeah. So I'm
curious, you know, youmentioned as a vendor for, for
state workers' comp and, andemployment network for the
federal Ticket to Work program.
You also do expert witness fordisability cases. You sort of
exist in a lot of significantspaces that private practice
CRCs work in. Is there one ofthose spaces that you think
offers the most opportunity? Oris it better for CRCs to kind
(29:16):
of pursue a little bit ofeverything that private
practice offers?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Sure. So I mean, my experience is that, again, when
you're given the opportunity tohave a contract with the
government, and I do have, Ihave a contract with the state
government as well as thefederal government. Um, one I
work with a lot more than theother. Um, but , um, the idea
to me is , um, you know, youhave to have, you , you wanna
(29:43):
have interest, but I think thekey is, number one , um,
whether the work is somewhatmore interesting than other
work. You know, the the initialfactor you have to consider is,
again, why I mentioned beforeis, you know, doing the work
that kind of keeps the lightson, you gotta make sure that
you're doing that work. I mean,if you, if if you get into this
(30:05):
business and you're doing workthat , um, say you like
workers' comp more than doingtestimony for ve but one pays
regular than the other, you'regonna have, maybe you can try
to expand on one that you likemore, but you have to
consistently do the other tomake sure that your , again,
your business can operate. Um,so I think it's preference on
(30:26):
what you like. I do believethat private practice as far as
, um, you know, disabilityinsurance through insurance
companies , um, private , um,you know, I know folks have
worked in divorce cases doingearnings capacity assessments,
working for law firms , um, youknow, pay , getting paid for a
(30:51):
long-term disability claimswhere they're, you know , doing
interrogatories, depositions,things of that nature. So
they're, you know, they'reprobably making a good, a good,
good amount of money off ofthose. Um, but again, that's
kind of getting, you know, intoa good connection with a
certain , um, you know, lawfirm or company or even being a
(31:12):
regular provider for aninsurance company , um, perhaps
for workers' comp or whatnot.
Um, so those are all, again,goes back to networking. And ,
um, if you're able to do that,like I've done workers' comp
before and I, I, I like that.
And that I could , it was moreof a personal touch to it. And
(31:33):
also the money was, you know,the , the payment was good. You
know, you can, your feesgenerally are higher. 'cause I
always like, you know, theelephant in the room is always
talking about money, and I haveno problem discussing the fact
that you can do, you can makegood money and also do, you
know, do good, give back to thecommunity and do , um, what I
(31:54):
call altru altruistic work. SoI think that when you're doing
the private L-T-D-L-S-T-D , um,type of work and working maybe
for a firm, I think you'llprobably like it a little . I
find that I would like it more, um, because it's a little
more interesting , um, but it'salso pays more. But as far as
(32:15):
doing , um, the work that kindof helps my company operate is
usually it's relying and beconsistent with the contracts I
have. It, it really depends onthe person really, because I
think that if you are, like,I've done as I've diversified,
but most of my time recentlyhas been spent on running my
company and doing testimony,but also running contractors
(32:38):
that do a lot of PE testimonyfor me and training them. So
there's only so much t youknow, time in the day. So I do
try to , I do have some ticketto work clients and I've done
workers' comp , um, last year.
I haven't done any this year sofar, but I try to do them if I
can more. Um, but it reallyjust kind of depends on what
(33:01):
comes my way. Um, I am tryingto develop, I always tell folks
that they, you know, continueto network, develop your
website, your marketing plan.
Um, that's something that I'mstill, it's an always , uh,
evolving type of situation. Um,but I do feel like that , um,
it just depends on theindividual and the
(33:22):
opportunities that come yourway.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, no, that's great. And I think like, like
you've kind of explained, beingopen-minded to pay the bills
first, right? That's important,especially with all the
considerations of running abusiness and those expenses.
But then, yeah, find, find whatends up working for your
situation and explore that. And, um, we hear a lot of folks
who say private practiceresonates with them in some
pretty strong ways compared toother work settings, maybe they
(33:46):
began in. And I think , uh,just a little bit more of that
flexibility to try differentthings and um, and , and be in
different spaces can certainly, um, contribute to that as
well as the earning potential.
Um, we know from our salarysurvey we conducted in 2021 at
CRCC that , um, the , thehighest earners with the CRC
credential are in privatepractice. And , uh, you know,
(34:07):
between the contracts and theability to kind of get out
there and make connections withpeople, there's definitely
potential there. So , um, Iappreciate your, your , uh,
sure . Insight into that. Weknow in private practice , uh,
that having the CRC credentialis essential, particularly
because of that CRCC code ofprofessional efforts , um, that
provides the public protectionand a a among a num a number of
(34:29):
other things. Um, what otherelements of certification do
you value as a CRC in additionto being an LRC?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Well, I think , um, the number one thing for me is
that, you know , you're ,you're going through school and
you're, you're taking the timeoutta your life. I mean ,
especially I had kids when Iwent back to school, so I, you
know, I , I learned about a newcareer, a new profession, and
it kind of gave me that it's,it's similar to going to school
and getting your graduatedegree. Now I got my graduate
(35:00):
degree from a rehab counselor,but it wouldn't have been, it
wouldn't have mattered to me asmuch if I didn't get the CRC
credential. Um, because I thinkit's just like, you know, it
might be a cherry on top, so tospeak, but it's something that,
it basically says, Hey, you'requalified , um, to work with
folks with disabilities in theworld of work because you , um,
(35:21):
you went through this rigorousprogram and, you know , it
qualifies you. It's not, youknow, so it means something in
that you, you had to go throughthat. Anybody who's gone
through graduate school andwho's done practicum and
internship , um, especially inmy situation and when I went to
to grad school, a lot of thefolks there were like me, they
(35:43):
were working full time . Theyhad families. So I think that
that was a big sacrifice. Andthen when they achieved that, I
think to get that credential ,um, which, you know, anybody
who's taken the CRC exam knowsit's not, it's not easy. So you
do have to prepare for it. So Ithink a lot of that just really
(36:04):
for anything for selffulfillment, I think is, is
important. Um, I, I do thinkthere's a, there's somewhat of
a comradery there. The work Ido, you have to be a CRC to ,
um, work for social security.
Um, and I, again, I brought upbefore a lot of folks that
worked in vr, but they weren'tA CRC. And I feel like that ,
(36:25):
um, they did themselves adisservice by not doing that.
And I also believe that you'regonna better serve your
clientele with that credentialbecause it basically makes you,
you know, go through theschooling and the education.
'cause there's so manydifferent aspects. You know,
there's the medical vocationalpiece , um, of disability. Uh ,
I mean, I felt like, you know,I don't wanna say I'm
(36:48):
fortunate, but I, I wentthrough an individual , um,
situation with invisibledisability, and I know a lot of
folks might have that face thatas well. Like, it seems like
you're drawn to a fee , thehelping field, because you've
dealt with situations, but noteverybody has. So I think that
going through the schoolingwill help you kind of get , um,
the experience and the trainingto merely , um, understand why
(37:13):
you're doing this. So I thinkthat it's a combination of
things. I mean, the ethicalpiece is important because I
think that, I mean, I haveinsurance as a counselor, and I
think that it makes you realizewhen you, like you take an
ethics course in to get yourCRC and, and they're always
pushing with continuededucation credits, like, you
(37:35):
know, keep up on your ethicalpractices. And I think that's
important. So I think that ,um, but self-fulfilment
fulfillment, if anything , uh,I feel like achieving that, but
it does give me an idea that Imay have experienced in the
field, but I've, I've gone thatextra mile to, you know, to
learn about specific , uh,techniques and , um, things of
(37:58):
that nature to help me workwith folks , um, individually.
And it does, as you mentionedtoo, it does give you , um, not
just in, in the work I do forsocial security, where you have
to have A CRC, but it gives yousome validity when you're
working with folks. And I thinkthat's something that's been
going on in my state. A lot ofthe VR um, programs have kind
(38:20):
of rolled back theirrequirements. So in some ways
it's, and I think this issomething that's been brought
up in, you know, on the CRCconversations and , um, with
other folks that are CRCs inthe community, so to speak, and
IARP and things of that naturewhere the credentials aren't
being valued like they should.
(38:41):
So, and I think that's doing adisservice because now you are
bringing people on that don'thave that credential. And when
someone's working with somebody, um, on, you know , disability
issues and the situation comesaround like , well, how did
you, you know, get into thiswork? What are your
credentials? And somebody'slike, well, I have, you know, I
(39:03):
have an associate's degree in,you know , um, you know,
chemistry or , uh, English,whatever, I'm just being
facetious. But, you know, youdon't have that background. And
I think that whether it'sbecause the, they don't have
enough qualified candidates orthe need is more, I'm not sure
why, but I think that that'ssomething they've gone away
(39:23):
from in my state. And I thinkthat's, it just shows you how
crucial having that is. BecauseI know folks that now are
working in the field that don'thave that credential, and I
know that they're not asqualified. And when I run in
across, when I run across tosomeone who has a CRC, you can
tell based on their experiencethat they're able to connect
(39:45):
with me in , in the field, andthey kind of, they'll be able
to address certain issues thatsomeone that didn't have that
credential would know, if thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As we've seen a few
states start to trend away fromcertification and more
skills-based hiring , um, weknow that skills-based hiring
is, is something that a lot ofdifferent industries are. It's
exploring now. And I think theconcern for us at CRCC and also
just , uh, for CRCs themselveslike you, is that when you move
(40:17):
that direction, you're notsuddenly finding people who are
more qualified. You're openingup to other folks who might not
be as especially equipped to dothis work as somebody who has a
master's degree and pass thatexam and keeps up with their
continuing education. So whilethat trend does appear to be
happening, as we know alreadyin Massachusetts and a few
other states , um, it'ssomething we're actively
(40:39):
working to advocate , um,against because, you know, we
want to see people withdisabilities have the expert
services that they deserve,right ? And , um, and, and we
believe that to be CRCs whohave put the time and, and
knowledge and training intoworking specifically with
people with disabilities , um,physical, cognitive, mental ,
(40:59):
uh, to be able to achieve thosefully integrated lives they
deserve. And when you'reproviding them services from
someone who is not equipped tonavigate all of these different
systems and laws and , uh,assessments and practices, the
you are automatically from thejump putting them at a
disservice , uh, to what theycould be having with CRCs. So
(41:19):
whether it's expanding theamount of people who are
pursuing a master's degree ingetting that credential, or ,
um, encouraging statevocational rehabilitation
agencies and other employers tocontinue to seek out CRCs and ,
um, hire CRCs, that's, that'swork that , uh, we plan on
doing. We've heard manydescribe becoming a certified
rehabilitation counselor as atoing . Um, what brings you joy
(41:42):
in the work that you do as aCRC?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And this may, this may go against what the reason
why I initially started being ACRC, now , the initially
started CRC, because I, I didwanna work with folks that had
disabilities. And I, I feellike that I wanted to share my
experience because again, I did, um, you can't not get into
(42:07):
this field without it beingsomewhat personal. Um, so I
believe that when I got in, Iwanted to help folks that were
struggling , um, to some degree, um, such as I was , um, and
my, my takeaway is that if Icould , um, and not to put
(42:28):
myself on a pedestal, 'causethere's a lot of folks that do
this and, and people stumbleand fall all the time and pick
themselves back up. And thatwas me for a long time. And I
feel like that I see a lot offolks out there with potential
and they're going through a lotof different situations and,
you know, it's, it's easy tokind of just throw your hands
up in the air and be like, I'mjust, you know, I'm not gonna
(42:48):
get anywhere. So for me, I knowthat , um, the fact that I
dealt with disabilities myself,and I've been able to, what I
always call a functional , um,disabled worker, and that was
somebody that worked with adisability , um, was able to
function, but I wasn't reallyachieving like I should have
(43:10):
because I wasn't addressing mydisabilities, I wasn't getting
the support that I needed towork around that to be a better
employee, to be a betterperson. Um, so I, I felt like
that was something that when Ifinally kind of clicked at some
point for me, and I , when Iwent into the CRC calling, I,
(43:31):
so to speak, the , um, when Ihad that experience with the
veterans, I felt like that kindof opened my eyes to wanting to
work with folks. And that hadmaybe a similar path that I
did, and they just, they, theyneeded to have that kind of
awakening for themselves. So Ithink that's always been at the
(43:52):
heart of doing the work I do.
Um, the reason why , um, I'vegone into the Tick to Work
program , um, specifically isbecause I wanted to be, you
know, have that connection withfolks that were going through
these problems. 'cause it's notreally lucrative money there.
And, you know, like, you know ,workers' comp and , and
(44:13):
certainly working with privateinsurers , um, that is more
lucrative, but it's, it's more, um, assessments and more
technical side. Whereas theTicket to Work program is
really just working with folks.
Um, you're kind of going off oftheir, you know, their , um,
momentum, you're helping themalong the way, but you're,
(44:35):
you're not staring , you'reletting them kind of do what
they wanna do, but you're thereas a support. So that's kind of
why I like doing that , um, andcontinue to do that. But I'll
be honest, like in running myown business, I like, I like
the camaraderie I have with mycontractors in that I like
having to be able to bounceideas off other people that are
(44:58):
CRCs. And a lot of the folksthat work with me are , um,
either semi-retired or retired.
They were former directors orVR in different states. They
come from all over the country.
Um, and they just open youreyes to a lot of different
experiences. And I think that'ssomething I really like about
being in business by myselfand, and doing the networking I
(45:19):
do. Um, that's why I alwaysencourage people to join , um,
you know, going on CRC, gettinggoing on Linked, you know,
getting in IARP or A BVEjoining these professional
networks , um, I, my smallbusiness association member in
my local area, but just kind ofgetting to know folks that do
(45:41):
the work you do, and it's kindof like that peer support
thing, right? Where you're ,um, you're dealing with a lot
of these folks and you'rehelping them, but you need to
have your own , um, what theycall, and they mention this in
school all the time about your,you know , your own mental
health break. Um, and I thinkthat's something that when you
work with similar mindedcolleagues and you can kind of
(46:05):
bounce those ideas off eachother, it's like your own
support network. So I thinkthat's the good thing, or the
thing I enjoy about working onmy own, because I think that
when I did work for the stateand the government, you had
coworkers , but your focus wason clients only, and you kind
of get caught up in that ratrace, so to speak, where like
(46:26):
you , you know, if you weren'tmeeting certain expectations at
that employer, you know, nobodycared whether you were dealing
with something or not. Youknow, the ironic thing is
working as a vocationalcounselor in those fields, you
didn't get really the empathythat the clients you worked
with got, which was kind ofironic to me. And I think that
(46:48):
that's another reason to goback to my , um, impetus for
starting my own business, is Iwanted to be able to kind of,
you know, get away from that.
Um, you know, that that kind of, um, bureaucratic,
bureaucratic mindset where youremployees had just come in,
punch the clock, do your joband leave. Um, I felt like that
(47:10):
was something where a lot ofthe folks I worked with, you
know, didn't get that , um,same compassion from their
employer, even though , um, alot of the folks I work with as
counselors, you know, they,they had had their own
experiences. So , um, and maybeemployers didn't feel like that
(47:31):
was their, you know, their ,um, responsibility. But I think
that's another thing is thatI'm always open to my coworkers
who are more contractors, butI'm always available to talk
about whatever they want totalk about. And I think that's
, um, that's a big piece ofworking for myself that I
enjoy.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Thank you to Joe Young for that informational
and engaging conversation. Inthe show notes, you can find
links to Joe's Business, JosephYoung Consulting LLC, as well
as information about the CRCCjob board where we list
positions from all across thecountry for both in person and
remote positions. If you haveany takeaways or insights on
(48:15):
topics covered in today'sepisode, email us at contact
us@crccertification.com. Besure to subscribe to this show
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, orwherever you're listening to us
today. You can find us onFacebook and LinkedIn at CRC
Cert , and our website is crccertification.com. Until next
(48:37):
time, I'm Taylor Bauer. Thankyou for listening to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling.
It is been a while since we've explored private
practice opportunities on theshow. Many episodes of inside
rehabilitation counseling beginwith a conversation at CRCC. We
may be working with an educatoror practitioner on a project
and think, Hey, we might wantto discuss some of these topics
on the podcast. For thisepisode, the conversation with
our guest began with a joblisting. The CRCC job board
(00:28):
hosts positions from all overthe country. And today's guest
reached out to list a positionwith his private practice. We
talked a bit about hisconsulting business, and from
there I knew our audience wouldwant to hear about his story.
Joe Young is a certifiedrehabilitation counselor in LRC
in Massachusetts, and owner ofJoseph Young Consulting LLC. In
(00:50):
this conversation, Joe shareshis perspective on the
importance of credentials andhow CRCs who want to start
their own private practice, canbegin their journey to working
for themselves. I wanna startwhere we start with a lot of
these conversations and justkind of get to know where you
first learned aboutrehabilitation counseling. Can
you tell me a little bit aboutyour journey to where you , um,
(01:10):
are today in the profession andkind of how you got there?
Speaker 2 (01:13):
Sure. And my pleasure to, to, you know, be
here and thanks for theopportunity. So, certainly, so
I started in the professionlater in life, really. Um, I, I
always would joke that I'm wasthe old saying , um, jack of
all trades , master of none. Solike I, I kind of was in and
out of a lot of different areasof work when I, through my
(01:35):
twenties and thirties. And ,um, you know, I had got my
bachelor's degree fromNortheastern and, you know, I
looked into, I think humanservice work was something that
I always felt drawn to, eventhough for a while I did, you
know, I did some other thingsthat were more dealing with
things, not people. But anyhow,when I was doing some training
(01:57):
work with , um, employees at myjob in financial services, and
this was probably when I was inmy mid to late thirties, I
started , uh, volunteeringthrough a community action
program. And what happened is Ibasically went to a homeless
shelter, or veteran shelter inBoston, and I volunteered, and
(02:21):
I basically got a team togetherof , of coworkers and went over
there and we did like the servefood. Um, and, you know, we
spoke with veterans and Inoticed that a lot of the folks
I went over there with, I thinkbecause of various background
differences, a lot of 'em werelike business majors. And I'm
not saying they weren't , um,social, but I believe that I
(02:45):
was the one out of, I wasprobably the only one out of
the whole group that really waslike interacting with the
veterans. And I think justbecause of maybe the background
I came from, I do have a familyhistory of in the military, but
it's more than that. It's justthe fact that I think that I
could kind of empathize with alot of them because I had my
own disabilities, you know ,um, you know what , that I
(03:08):
found out I was experiencing in, you know, my thirties. So
anyway, I did, because of thatexperience at the shelter, I
started getting more involved.
Um, I did training at my ownemployers with people on site ,
but I also started volunteeringmore and more over at the
shelter on my own time. Andthat kind of led me to do some
(03:29):
research into college programsbecause I had an undergraduate
degree back in the latenineties. And, you know, here I
am, you know, it was 2000, late2010 to 12 or 13, something
like that. So I'm like, I need, I was, where I was at, I felt
like I needed to expand. Like,I felt like my career was kind
of stagnant. Um, and I was ,wasn't really fit out. Um, I
(03:55):
really wasn't ha my skillsetwasn't fit to where I was at. I
always liken it to like be in asquare peg, trying to fit into
a circle, you know. Um, so I ,I basically research found
somebody at UMass Boston , um,in reality, which I found out
later, it was one of the betterprograms in, in the country for
(04:15):
rehabilitation counseling. AndI, I actually found a contact
over there that was, I wouldsay was kind of a mentor to me.
I'll mention his name, billCarlow . He's, he ran like a
substance abuse program overthere. And, but he also had a
master's degree. And he hadtold me about the CRC
credential. 'cause I wanted tokind of tie in working with
(04:37):
people with disabilities and ,um, vocational because I was
someone that was doing that,you know, also managing some,
some invisible disabilitiesmyself. So I think that all
wrapped into one. And I kindof, I just ended up enrolling
at UMass. I found out they hadthe , um, the RSA grant, which
allowed , uh, folks to go thereand get their grad graduate
(05:00):
degree , um, basically free ofcharge as long as you were
working in the fieldafterwards. And , um, from
there, I just kind of, I wasgoing to school part-time,
hybrid whatever I had to do.
Um, and then my last year Iended up leaving my, my older
employer and just focused on mygraduate studies. And , um, I
(05:21):
did internships and I kind ofwas off, off and running from
there. That's
Speaker 1 (05:25):
Fantastic. Thank you for walking us through that. I
think you definitely hear oftenthat people who end up in this
profession are interested inhelping people. And even in
particular, like you mentioned,they don't only want to help
people, but they, they have aknack for connecting with
people. And it sounds like thatexperience with the veterans
really kind of hold some piecestogether for you and realize
that this would be a professionthat you would not only enjoy,
(05:48):
but it it'd sell in. And that'scertainly the case. Now. You
are currently running your ownbusiness , um, as a CRC and ,
uh, an LRC in the state ofMassachusetts. Walk me through
what led to you starting yourown business. We hear a lot of
times that people who are inthis profession want to do
that. Um, and I'm just curious,what tools or resources were
helpful to you through theplanning and launching process
(06:10):
of your business? And , um,when did you know you wanted to
take that path , uh, withinrehabilitation counseling?
Sure.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So as you said , um, you know, when you, it's
everything's about experiencein life , um, and running into
, um, situations that you'rehaven't been familiar with
before, and whether by chanceor , um, networking or whatnot.
So when I finished my degree, Iwas networking with , um, my
(06:40):
focus was at the time, like myinternship I did at the
Middlesex Sheriff's Department, um, as a job developer. And
it was something I kind ofcreated on my own. It wasn't
some , most folks at UMasswould go to mass rehab, which
is now mass ability . Um, and,and they were, I ended up
working with them indirectlyover the next couple years. But
(07:02):
my internship was more workingwith individuals that were
incarcerated or in pro thecourt system. So I was kind of
just a , a , something that Iwas drawn to because I did have
a background in prior andcorrections and law
enforcement. So , um, when Igot into that, you know, I, I
just started seeing, workingwith these individuals and
(07:23):
thinking there's a lot of , um,like grant opportunities and
things of that nature. They'reout there that I came aware of
from people that I was workingwith, whether they were a
nonprofit or whatnot. And so Idid some research and I found a
posting for , um, at the timefor, well, I was working at the
time for the state and as awell , uh, counselor for the
(07:47):
department, department mentalhealth. And I found out about
this , uh, contract positionwhere you could do social
security expert witnesstestimony. And I did contract
work with that. I interviewedand, and got the job. And it
was a contract role. And Iliked it because I did do some
in person , but I also could doit at home. And just looking
(08:09):
into that, doing research, Irealized that , um, you know,
there was a contract coming upand I , and I read into it
about what I needed to kind ofapply. And I looked at the
requirements and I felt like I,I met the requirements. Um, saw
that experience there, kind ofled me to getting into the
government contracting. Andfrom there I just researched
(08:31):
about, well, I'm gonna do thison my own, then I should
research about runningbusiness. 'cause I'm not, you
know, like a lot of folks thatstart , um, they're not really
, um, folks with like an MBA orbusiness minded, but I think
that, so your , your skillsethas to come first in , in the
job that you're doing and thenyou're running your business.
(08:54):
Um, is, is important, but it's,you need that first initial ,
uh, opportunity in the field.
So again, like if you're, ifyou're running your own
business in anything, evenfolks, I went to school with
folks that were mental healthcounselors. You know, they
didn't just start their ownpractice, you know, without
having done research and foundothers that started it , um,
(09:16):
after getting experience in thefield. So I think it's a
combination. My l my age,'cause I did start later on in
life, this career as a CRC. SoI had a lot of life and job
experience. Um, and just beingexposed to that contract work
was kind of like my, my , um,gave me a , um, springboard, so
(09:37):
to speak, to start. And thenthe rest of the stuff I think
you can do, especially nowadayswith AI and, and the internet,
you can really find out ways tostart your own business and
kind of manage that. Um, butyou know, it , it , it's always
helpful to have ex network withfolks that have already done it
(09:57):
ahead of you before you and I,I definitely did use that , um,
you know, to my advantage by,through the networks I made,
through grad school, myinternship as well as , um,
folks in the VE world because ,um, there is , uh, professional
networks you can join and youcan network with folks. So ,
(10:20):
um, but yeah, it was, it was,that was kind of what led me to
that. And again, I think thateverybody nowadays too has that
entrepreneurial spirit and it'seven being pushed in schools
now where they're recognizingtraining that in classes. And I
think that I, that came aroundthe time that, you know, I ex ,
you know, I experienced this ,um, self-employment. So, but
(10:44):
that's, that's really where I,I kind of had that opportunity
is with that contract work. Andit just expanded from there.
And I did add some otherservices as well as I kind of
went along, but that was my, Ineeded that anchor because when
you start a business, you needto have that client that keeps
the lights on, so to speak. Sothat was kind of for me,
(11:05):
otherwise I couldn't have goneout just on my own. And if I
had just like a la cartefreelance work, I still
would've had to work for, atthe time I was working for the
federal government as a va, aVA counselor, and when I got my
contract, it allowed me to kindof go on my own. Um, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:25):
Yeah. Thank you for that. Yeah, we , uh, obviously
have a lot of courses atC-R-C-C-E University and every
, uh, month when I'm looking atsales reports and trying to
figure out like what courses dowe want to keep reminding
people that we offer, one ofthe top selling ones is always
how to start a privatepractice, you know? Um , I
think, like you said, theentrepreneurial spirit is, has
, has always been strong withpeople, but especially now, you
(11:46):
even see a lot of folks who, asyou just mentioned, maybe work
full-time somewhere and arejust starting to maybe dabble a
little bit in some contractwork or freelance work , um,
obviously for the money, butalso like in your, in your
case, the exposure to thatworld. So you can kind of dip
your toe in without just maybeone day saying, I'm gonna quit
my job at state VR and head in,you know, head first . And
(12:09):
getting, getting exposure tothat is really important
because we have a lot of peoplewho are working in private
practice and , and many ofthem, you know, might be CRCs
who haven't had exposure to a ,a contract position like you
had. What would you say tosomeone who wants to go into
private practice? Were , werethere any like, lessons or kind
of takeaways when you startedout that you think might be
(12:30):
helpful for them to, to know orhear about?
Speaker 2 (12:32):
Sure. And you touched base on this a little
bit. Um, number one is you, youcertainly, you don't want to go
into private practice , um, atleast full-time without having
, um, a steady , um, clienteleor income. Um, whether you have
a governmental contract work oryou , um, you know, you have
(12:57):
something else where you cansay, okay, you know, I can
leave. Because it's one thingyou realize when you start a
business is , you know, it's,it's , I like the pros over the
cons, but the one thing youhave to adapt to that, folks
that are, especially peoplethat work in human services,
they usually work for thegovernment , um, or a nonprofit
. They, you know, they'll losebenefits. So that's one thing
(13:19):
you always have to factor in.
So your situation may depend onthat, you know, if you're
married or you're single, and,you know, it may be more
feasible for some than others,but you need to have that
secure because of the contractat work I did for about a year,
I did while I was also workingfull time . So like you said,
you just, I just , just up andI didn't up and leave until I
(13:41):
was able to secure something.
Um, but I would say the biggestthing is just get experience.
Because even folks that I bringon , um, for contract work now,
they have to have at least fiveyears experience of direct
placement. Now that doesn't,you know, that means like you,
it doesn't mean like you couldhave worked in human services
as , you know, doing mentalhealth or doing intakes or
(14:04):
whatever. It has to be reallydirect specified experience. So
one thing I've noticed, folkscoming to me looking to fill up
positions I've sought , um, isthat a lot of times they're, I
can't bring them on becausethey just don't have that
experience. And I think theexperience is important because
not just for knowing yourcraft, but it's also, it helps
(14:26):
you empathize with the peoplethat you are working with. Um,
but the other piece is thecredentials. I always say you
need academic too, like peoplethat to advance and to get
recognition and for yourresume, you need to have those
credentials. Um, I've alsoturned folks down that have
worked in VR work for decades,but they never really went out
(14:48):
of the way to get , um, A CRCcertification or an A BVE or,
or , um, A CVE, whatever, youknow, whatever. Like, I know
some friends of mine used tojoke about having all those ,
um, those letters after yourname. But you know, in some
ways it does. Um, it isnecessary. I mean, it , it's
(15:10):
something that you do learnfrom these organizations. You
learn from going to school. But, um, so you need to have that
combination. I always say that,so if you're, if you're heavy
in one area and light in theother, then always try to make
up where your light, 'causeyou'll always focus on your
weaknesses. Um, and I thinkthat's something I've learned
over the time. And I also wouldsay that, you know, the , the
(15:34):
next thing, and this is prettymuch I think, common sense,
especially as you get older ,um, networking is, is huge. Um,
I mean, I've networked with CRCfor example, and you guys
posted , um, you know, somethings on, on the website. I
actually hired somebody fromthat posting and I've had a
bunch of other folks, you know,come to me. Um, and it's been,
(15:59):
you know, a very, a goodopportunity. And I think,
'cause I , I do have kept intouch with, you know , um, CRC
monitoring them, I'm I onLinkedIn. And so the networking
piece is huge. Um, just try tonetwork, whether it's doing
kind of , uh, when I say coldcall, I mean reaching out via
email or, or internet, going onLinkedIn, doing networking ,
(16:22):
um, just getting that out theredepending on what you're
interested in. You know, ifyou're doing long term short
term disability, workers' comp,private , um, insurance, you
know, you have to be able tofind, you know , ways to get
your name out there to beknown. And I think everybody
knows that in , in vocationalworld, everybody knows that
(16:42):
word of mouth is the most , uh,prevalent way people end up
getting a job. It still existstoday. Um, I think it's just,
it's just a way of the worldstill, even though with, you
know, and it's gotta be basedon merit, but a lot of times
you can have 10 applicants thatare all equal, but the one that
kind of has familiarity fromsomebody, you know, that's why
(17:04):
companies offer references. Sothat's, you know, those are the
two things is getting yourexperience and your credentials
as well as a network and reallypush that networking. And I
think that kind of will helpyou , um, move forward in your
business.
Speaker 1 (17:18):
Yeah, yeah, no , those are both great pointers
and you know, with networking,there's kind of an art to it.
'cause it's not always a matterof you have worked for me, it's
more just like getting to knowpeople who are in the
profession. 'cause you neverknow weeks, months, years down
the line when that might end upbeing a , a , a potential
avenue for you to explore for anew career, a new position in
your case, potentially hiringsomeone, someone onto to your
(17:41):
consulting business. And , um,it's great to hear that the job
board , uh, worked out well foryou. We, it's one of our most
visited pages and I know manyof the roles are in person , so
they might not all pertain toeverybody looking on there. But
we have listings as the per , Ican say this as a , um, as the
person at CRC who updates thatwe have listings come in every
single day , uh, whether it bestate, v state vr , um, remote
(18:04):
opportunities, things likethat. And while there might not
be something in your state oneday by the next week, there,
there are certainly otheropportunities. And , um, there
are also a , a number of remoteopportunities and hybrid things
like that, that are openingdoors for people to not just be
limited to where they live aswell. But , um, you made a a
really great point as well withthe credentials because we hear
(18:24):
often that, you know, for , uh,for many practice settings, the
CRC credential might not berequired as a, you have to have
this. But we do hear frompeople all the time that that
ends up kind of being thedifference makers . Have you
invested that not only gettingthe master's degree, but
passing the exam, which is a ,a rigorous exam and takes a lot
of work, and then maintainingthat and getting those
(18:46):
continuing education creditsand that , that , that shows a
commitment to the work that youdo that , um, even if not
necessarily required in a jobdescription , um, does show the
hiring manager something. Andwe are even hearing now for
people who are applying to jobswithin accommodations or return
to work where maybe they're noteven aware of the CRC
(19:06):
credential, they just needsomeone to do those services
that when they see the CRC,those letters do catch your
eye. 'cause you're like, okay,well what does that stand for?
Then you look into it a bitmore and maybe in an interview
you're able to articulate whatskills you bring to the table
based on your education andthat credential. And it , it ,
it does go a long way. So it,it's great to hear that that's
something that you've seen makea difference as well in your
(19:28):
business and, and career.
Speaking of, you know, remotepositions and things like that
, um, rehabilitation counselingservices have begun to offer
remote and blended services and, um, as you mentioned in your
line of work, there is a lot ofwork that can happen remotely
or not in the same location, aas the people you're working
alongside. What benefits haveyou experienced to things
(19:51):
related to virtual casemanagement or rehabilitation
counseling services? And whatconsiderations need to be taken
when you're providing theseservices virtually?
Speaker 2 (20:00):
That's a good question. So, and it's true, I
mean, not just with covid , Ithink Covid kind of opened up
people's eyes where a lot ofproficiency can be performed
from homes. You know, withtechnology nowadays , um, you
know, a lot of times that isbeneficial and in , in , in
fact, before Covid, when Iworked at the va, one of the
(20:23):
biggest , um, barriers for alot of veterans coming in to
apply for benefits , uh, Iworked in Boston at the time,
was to getting there. Um, itwas so frustrating for 'em to
get there and then find parkingor get transportation and, you
know, the , the clienteleyou're dealing with, a lot of
(20:43):
folks that aren't, you know,they have a lot of issues with
, um, you know, psychological,cognitive , um, physical
issues. So I started getting,and I started kind of pushing
for this, but a lot of thefolks there brought this to me
where they were like, well,let's have you do a lot of
these phone on phone inintakes. Um, so that was
(21:06):
something that was moving, theywere moving towards that even
before covid . And then, Idon't know if they're doing it
still now, I think maybe somehybrid, but , um, a lot of
folks may be going back tobrick and mortar, but I think a
lot of folks are still allowinghybrid work , um, if not full
remote work. And I think thebenefit of that is easy. It's
(21:27):
easier on the clients and that, uh, the transportation issues
, um, with technology nowadays,in my experience , um, every,
even my clients that are, youknow, folks I've dealt with
that were homeless and or werein shelters, I mean, everybody
seems to have a smartphone andeverybody seems to know how to
use apps and , um, it's notlike it was years ago. We like,
(21:50):
well, nobody has this or that.
I mean, most of my clients thatare , um, that I work with that
are through say, the ticket towork program or workers' comp
have proficiency in email. Um,and it's, you know, it's very
simple. Um, now the, thechallenges with that is , um,
obviously the, the personalconnection , um, for the social
(22:16):
security work I do, it's not ,um, as an issue because we're
supposed to be objective. We'renot really working with folks
as a client. We're justoffering our expertise opinion.
Um, it's, it's less , uh, it's,it's informal, but it's not
really, we're not focusing onthe individual. We're just
focusing on hypotheticals andthe world of work. So I think
(22:37):
the, the phone hearings we doare , um, you know, it's
beneficial. They offer thatmore now in social security ,
um, for , um, disabilityhearings, phone as well as
video, you know , the MS teamvideo still allows folks with
physical ailments to presentthemselves physically. So the
judge can kind of get a feel ofhow they're performing or what
(22:59):
they're dealing with withouthaving them to actually travel
into a location physically. Sothose are benefits. Um , but
obviously the , the negative isthat, you know, we do, when
you're working with folks as ona one-to-one basis, like
traditional VR work, which Istill do, ticket to work
programming and workers' comp,that is where I try to go out
(23:23):
at least once or twice to visitin person , because you need to
have that connection anddevelop that rapport. And then
after that, usually it's okayjust to do a lot of electronic
things , um, communication. SoI think there's a balance there
that works , um, for folks that, you know, get used to it. I
prefer hybrid over anything.
(23:44):
Um, maybe like a percentagehybrid. So like if I do
workers' comp , um, or ticketto work, it's, it's probably 80
20 or 75, 25, we're remote, 75to 80 , um, you know, in person
maybe 25, 20 to 25%. 'cause youneed that. You do need some
face to face time . Um, but interms of other work, and a lot
(24:06):
of folks that work privateinsurance, that can all be done
remote other than, you know ,unless you have to testify. And
that doesn't happen often. So Ithink that's something that,
you know, the hybrid work is,is beneficial. And I think,
again, a lot of folks aresticking with that , um,
because they realized throughcovid , one of the positives, I
(24:27):
guess, is that , um, theyrealize that people can be
effective and there are a lotof benefits from remote work.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Y you mentioned obviously accessibility for ,
um, for, for the client toensure that they're not having
to deal with transportationissues or , um, added hurdles
to, to , to this situation.
They , they might already betrying to traverse. There's
also the matter of the factthat we, we know in a lot of
places there aren't enough CRCsto help all of the people who
(24:54):
have disabilities who needthese services. So the ability
to use remote and, and virtualwork and , and settings to
provide these services isreally a way to break down
barriers that are related to,you know, a population of , uh,
people who live in rural areasthat might not be near state
vocational services, or atleast not, not near enough to
make it convenient and to makeit a headache to have to figure
(25:15):
out. And I think you see thatwith a lot of , um, the medical
profession as well. You know,I, I had read at one point, I,
I forget what the article was,but they thought that, again,
like you said, one of thepositives of of the pandemic
was that it sped up thevirtualization of, of the
medical profession by almost adecade because they realized we
can do some of this virtually.
Some of it you can't, which istotally understandable. And
(25:37):
like you said, the the personalconnection in person really
can't be, can't be matched. Butwith some of these services
just needing to be check-insand conversations and , um,
even as you mentioned , uh,video being a way to see
somebody, a lot of that canhappen virtually. And that
really breaks down barriers forpeople who might not live near
services and might in turn,because of that decide, I, I
(25:59):
can't have those servicesbecause they're not near me.
And it , it's really transtransformational to know that
this can be a way that , uh,CRCs can connect to clients who
they might not have easy accessto, which is great for the
client and great for thecounselor as well. And
Speaker 2 (26:12):
I liken it to the , like , you , we can't go back
to, it's like, you know, whenyou
I use these, these , um, I usethese squ , um, like, you know,
when you invent the car, youdon't go back to the, the , the
horse, you know, and buggy.
You, you, when you go to hybridor you go to remote and it's
(26:33):
effective, you can't go back.
Um, or you shouldn't go backjust because you're in this
mindset of, well, the personhas to be responsible and be in
, we have to see them. It'slike that old mindset. And I
think that when you see theeffectiveness , um, I think
it's important. And, and onething to mention, I don't have
this, but a lot of folks , um,that work in remote work that ,
(26:54):
um, say like Amazon or thingsof that nature, I , I know
folks that work with , um, youknow, dis um , with benefits
and things of that nature,accommodation requests , um,
you know, they have to rethey're monitored, so they have
to get production done. So itdoesn't make sense to try to
punish people by saying, well,you have to be here in the
office if you can get it done.
(27:16):
Um, and , and because theyalways say, and it's true, like
a happier employee is a , abetter employee. So that's just
my, my thing too is I thinkthat I, I always push back
about that idea that we have togo back to this, you know , in
brick and mortar type workbecause , and I'm 52 and I grew
up in the generation that, hey,you should be in work. And I'm
(27:38):
myself don't agree with that
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Right? Yeah. And the productivity conversation is
also very harmful forindividuals with disabilities
because there's that assumptionby a lot of folks that if you
have a disability, you cannotbe as productive as someone who
doesn't have a disability. Whenin turn, we know that a lot of
times people with disabilitiesare going to work harder
because they want to compensatefor the fact that they're being
(28:00):
overlooked and , and not justin work, right? But in society
and to, to force return tooffice , uh, things for reasons
that aren't anything, but justlike a , a psychology of we
need you in the office, right ?
We need you in a building,right ? It is not only harmful
to employees who are enjoying abetter work life balance at
home, but also to employeeswith disabilities who all of a
(28:22):
sudden now have to figure outthings like, how do I get to
work? I'm not going to have thesame resources. And of course,
employers are meant to , uh,provide accommodations and
things like that, but those arethings that they don't have to
worry about right now becausethey're able to work remotely.
And so when you saw a lot ofthose pushes back to the office
happen, I think an unintendedconsequence was you're
alienating a lot of people whodo not have , um, the same
(28:46):
accessibility requirements inoffice that they would at home.
And Right . It definitelycaused ,
Speaker 2 (28:52):
It's
Speaker 1 (28:52):
True . It definitely cause problems. Yeah. So I'm
curious, you know, youmentioned as a vendor for, for
state workers' comp and, andemployment network for the
federal Ticket to Work program.
You also do expert witness fordisability cases. You sort of
exist in a lot of significantspaces that private practice
CRCs work in. Is there one ofthose spaces that you think
offers the most opportunity? Oris it better for CRCs to kind
(29:16):
of pursue a little bit ofeverything that private
practice offers?
Speaker 2 (29:20):
Sure. So I mean, my experience is that, again, when
you're given the opportunity tohave a contract with the
government, and I do have, Ihave a contract with the state
government as well as thefederal government. Um, one I
work with a lot more than theother. Um, but , um, the idea
to me is , um, you know, youhave to have, you , you wanna
(29:43):
have interest, but I think thekey is, number one , um,
whether the work is somewhatmore interesting than other
work. You know, the the initialfactor you have to consider is,
again, why I mentioned beforeis, you know, doing the work
that kind of keeps the lightson, you gotta make sure that
you're doing that work. I mean,if you, if if you get into this
(30:05):
business and you're doing workthat , um, say you like
workers' comp more than doingtestimony for ve but one pays
regular than the other, you'regonna have, maybe you can try
to expand on one that you likemore, but you have to
consistently do the other tomake sure that your , again,
your business can operate. Um,so I think it's preference on
(30:26):
what you like. I do believethat private practice as far as
, um, you know, disabilityinsurance through insurance
companies , um, private , um,you know, I know folks have
worked in divorce cases doingearnings capacity assessments,
working for law firms , um, youknow, pay , getting paid for a
(30:51):
long-term disability claimswhere they're, you know , doing
interrogatories, depositions,things of that nature. So
they're, you know, they'reprobably making a good, a good,
good amount of money off ofthose. Um, but again, that's
kind of getting, you know, intoa good connection with a
certain , um, you know, lawfirm or company or even being a
(31:12):
regular provider for aninsurance company , um, perhaps
for workers' comp or whatnot.
Um, so those are all, again,goes back to networking. And ,
um, if you're able to do that,like I've done workers' comp
before and I, I, I like that.
And that I could , it was moreof a personal touch to it. And
(31:33):
also the money was, you know,the , the payment was good. You
know, you can, your feesgenerally are higher. 'cause I
always like, you know, theelephant in the room is always
talking about money, and I haveno problem discussing the fact
that you can do, you can makegood money and also do, you
know, do good, give back to thecommunity and do , um, what I
(31:54):
call altru altruistic work. SoI think that when you're doing
the private L-T-D-L-S-T-D , um,type of work and working maybe
for a firm, I think you'llprobably like it a little . I
find that I would like it more, um, because it's a little
more interesting , um, but it'salso pays more. But as far as
(32:15):
doing , um, the work that kindof helps my company operate is
usually it's relying and beconsistent with the contracts I
have. It, it really depends onthe person really, because I
think that if you are, like,I've done as I've diversified,
but most of my time recentlyhas been spent on running my
company and doing testimony,but also running contractors
(32:38):
that do a lot of PE testimonyfor me and training them. So
there's only so much t youknow, time in the day. So I do
try to , I do have some ticketto work clients and I've done
workers' comp , um, last year.
I haven't done any this year sofar, but I try to do them if I
can more. Um, but it reallyjust kind of depends on what
(33:01):
comes my way. Um, I am tryingto develop, I always tell folks
that they, you know, continueto network, develop your
website, your marketing plan.
Um, that's something that I'mstill, it's an always , uh,
evolving type of situation. Um,but I do feel like that , um,
it just depends on theindividual and the
(33:22):
opportunities that come yourway.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yeah, no, that's great. And I think like, like
you've kind of explained, beingopen-minded to pay the bills
first, right? That's important,especially with all the
considerations of running abusiness and those expenses.
But then, yeah, find, find whatends up working for your
situation and explore that. And, um, we hear a lot of folks
who say private practiceresonates with them in some
pretty strong ways compared toother work settings, maybe they
(33:46):
began in. And I think , uh,just a little bit more of that
flexibility to try differentthings and um, and , and be in
different spaces can certainly, um, contribute to that as
well as the earning potential.
Um, we know from our salarysurvey we conducted in 2021 at
CRCC that , um, the , thehighest earners with the CRC
credential are in privatepractice. And , uh, you know,
(34:07):
between the contracts and theability to kind of get out
there and make connections withpeople, there's definitely
potential there. So , um, Iappreciate your, your , uh,
sure . Insight into that. Weknow in private practice , uh,
that having the CRC credentialis essential, particularly
because of that CRCC code ofprofessional efforts , um, that
provides the public protectionand a a among a num a number of
(34:29):
other things. Um, what otherelements of certification do
you value as a CRC in additionto being an LRC?
Speaker 2 (34:37):
Well, I think , um, the number one thing for me is
that, you know , you're ,you're going through school and
you're, you're taking the timeoutta your life. I mean ,
especially I had kids when Iwent back to school, so I, you
know, I , I learned about a newcareer, a new profession, and
it kind of gave me that it's,it's similar to going to school
and getting your graduatedegree. Now I got my graduate
(35:00):
degree from a rehab counselor,but it wouldn't have been, it
wouldn't have mattered to me asmuch if I didn't get the CRC
credential. Um, because I thinkit's just like, you know, it
might be a cherry on top, so tospeak, but it's something that,
it basically says, Hey, you'requalified , um, to work with
folks with disabilities in theworld of work because you , um,
(35:21):
you went through this rigorousprogram and, you know , it
qualifies you. It's not, youknow, so it means something in
that you, you had to go throughthat. Anybody who's gone
through graduate school andwho's done practicum and
internship , um, especially inmy situation and when I went to
to grad school, a lot of thefolks there were like me, they
(35:43):
were working full time . Theyhad families. So I think that
that was a big sacrifice. Andthen when they achieved that, I
think to get that credential ,um, which, you know, anybody
who's taken the CRC exam knowsit's not, it's not easy. So you
do have to prepare for it. So Ithink a lot of that just really
(36:04):
for anything for selffulfillment, I think is, is
important. Um, I, I do thinkthere's a, there's somewhat of
a comradery there. The work Ido, you have to be a CRC to ,
um, work for social security.
Um, and I, again, I brought upbefore a lot of folks that
worked in vr, but they weren'tA CRC. And I feel like that ,
(36:25):
um, they did themselves adisservice by not doing that.
And I also believe that you'regonna better serve your
clientele with that credentialbecause it basically makes you,
you know, go through theschooling and the education.
'cause there's so manydifferent aspects. You know,
there's the medical vocationalpiece , um, of disability. Uh ,
I mean, I felt like, you know,I don't wanna say I'm
(36:48):
fortunate, but I, I wentthrough an individual , um,
situation with invisibledisability, and I know a lot of
folks might have that face thatas well. Like, it seems like
you're drawn to a fee , thehelping field, because you've
dealt with situations, but noteverybody has. So I think that
going through the schoolingwill help you kind of get , um,
the experience and the trainingto merely , um, understand why
(37:13):
you're doing this. So I thinkthat it's a combination of
things. I mean, the ethicalpiece is important because I
think that, I mean, I haveinsurance as a counselor, and I
think that it makes you realizewhen you, like you take an
ethics course in to get yourCRC and, and they're always
pushing with continuededucation credits, like, you
(37:35):
know, keep up on your ethicalpractices. And I think that's
important. So I think that ,um, but self-fulfilment
fulfillment, if anything , uh,I feel like achieving that, but
it does give me an idea that Imay have experienced in the
field, but I've, I've gone thatextra mile to, you know, to
learn about specific , uh,techniques and , um, things of
(37:58):
that nature to help me workwith folks , um, individually.
And it does, as you mentionedtoo, it does give you , um, not
just in, in the work I do forsocial security, where you have
to have A CRC, but it gives yousome validity when you're
working with folks. And I thinkthat's something that's been
going on in my state. A lot ofthe VR um, programs have kind
(38:20):
of rolled back theirrequirements. So in some ways
it's, and I think this issomething that's been brought
up in, you know, on the CRCconversations and , um, with
other folks that are CRCs inthe community, so to speak, and
IARP and things of that naturewhere the credentials aren't
being valued like they should.
(38:41):
So, and I think that's doing adisservice because now you are
bringing people on that don'thave that credential. And when
someone's working with somebody, um, on, you know , disability
issues and the situation comesaround like , well, how did
you, you know, get into thiswork? What are your
credentials? And somebody'slike, well, I have, you know, I
(39:03):
have an associate's degree in,you know , um, you know,
chemistry or , uh, English,whatever, I'm just being
facetious. But, you know, youdon't have that background. And
I think that whether it'sbecause the, they don't have
enough qualified candidates orthe need is more, I'm not sure
why, but I think that that'ssomething they've gone away
(39:23):
from in my state. And I thinkthat's, it just shows you how
crucial having that is. BecauseI know folks that now are
working in the field that don'thave that credential, and I
know that they're not asqualified. And when I run in
across, when I run across tosomeone who has a CRC, you can
tell based on their experiencethat they're able to connect
(39:45):
with me in , in the field, andthey kind of, they'll be able
to address certain issues thatsomeone that didn't have that
credential would know, if thatmakes sense.
Speaker 1 (39:54):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. As we've seen a few
states start to trend away fromcertification and more
skills-based hiring , um, weknow that skills-based hiring
is, is something that a lot ofdifferent industries are. It's
exploring now. And I think theconcern for us at CRCC and also
just , uh, for CRCs themselveslike you, is that when you move
(40:17):
that direction, you're notsuddenly finding people who are
more qualified. You're openingup to other folks who might not
be as especially equipped to dothis work as somebody who has a
master's degree and pass thatexam and keeps up with their
continuing education. So whilethat trend does appear to be
happening, as we know alreadyin Massachusetts and a few
other states , um, it'ssomething we're actively
(40:39):
working to advocate , um,against because, you know, we
want to see people withdisabilities have the expert
services that they deserve,right ? And , um, and, and we
believe that to be CRCs whohave put the time and, and
knowledge and training intoworking specifically with
people with disabilities , um,physical, cognitive, mental ,
(40:59):
uh, to be able to achieve thosefully integrated lives they
deserve. And when you'reproviding them services from
someone who is not equipped tonavigate all of these different
systems and laws and , uh,assessments and practices, the
you are automatically from thejump putting them at a
disservice , uh, to what theycould be having with CRCs. So
(41:19):
whether it's expanding theamount of people who are
pursuing a master's degree ingetting that credential, or ,
um, encouraging statevocational rehabilitation
agencies and other employers tocontinue to seek out CRCs and ,
um, hire CRCs, that's, that'swork that , uh, we plan on
doing. We've heard manydescribe becoming a certified
rehabilitation counselor as atoing . Um, what brings you joy
(41:42):
in the work that you do as aCRC?
Speaker 2 (41:44):
And this may, this may go against what the reason
why I initially started being ACRC, now , the initially
started CRC, because I, I didwanna work with folks that had
disabilities. And I, I feellike that I wanted to share my
experience because again, I did, um, you can't not get into
(42:07):
this field without it beingsomewhat personal. Um, so I
believe that when I got in, Iwanted to help folks that were
struggling , um, to some degree, um, such as I was , um, and
my, my takeaway is that if Icould , um, and not to put
(42:28):
myself on a pedestal, 'causethere's a lot of folks that do
this and, and people stumbleand fall all the time and pick
themselves back up. And thatwas me for a long time. And I
feel like that I see a lot offolks out there with potential
and they're going through a lotof different situations and,
you know, it's, it's easy tokind of just throw your hands
up in the air and be like, I'mjust, you know, I'm not gonna
(42:48):
get anywhere. So for me, I knowthat , um, the fact that I
dealt with disabilities myself,and I've been able to, what I
always call a functional , um,disabled worker, and that was
somebody that worked with adisability , um, was able to
function, but I wasn't reallyachieving like I should have
(43:10):
because I wasn't addressing mydisabilities, I wasn't getting
the support that I needed towork around that to be a better
employee, to be a betterperson. Um, so I, I felt like
that was something that when Ifinally kind of clicked at some
point for me, and I , when Iwent into the CRC calling, I,
(43:31):
so to speak, the , um, when Ihad that experience with the
veterans, I felt like that kindof opened my eyes to wanting to
work with folks. And that hadmaybe a similar path that I
did, and they just, they, theyneeded to have that kind of
awakening for themselves. So Ithink that's always been at the
(43:52):
heart of doing the work I do.
Um, the reason why , um, I'vegone into the Tick to Work
program , um, specifically isbecause I wanted to be, you
know, have that connection withfolks that were going through
these problems. 'cause it's notreally lucrative money there.
And, you know, like, you know ,workers' comp and , and
(44:13):
certainly working with privateinsurers , um, that is more
lucrative, but it's, it's more, um, assessments and more
technical side. Whereas theTicket to Work program is
really just working with folks.
Um, you're kind of going off oftheir, you know, their , um,
momentum, you're helping themalong the way, but you're,
(44:35):
you're not staring , you'reletting them kind of do what
they wanna do, but you're thereas a support. So that's kind of
why I like doing that , um, andcontinue to do that. But I'll
be honest, like in running myown business, I like, I like
the camaraderie I have with mycontractors in that I like
having to be able to bounceideas off other people that are
(44:58):
CRCs. And a lot of the folksthat work with me are , um,
either semi-retired or retired.
They were former directors orVR in different states. They
come from all over the country.
Um, and they just open youreyes to a lot of different
experiences. And I think that'ssomething I really like about
being in business by myselfand, and doing the networking I
(45:19):
do. Um, that's why I alwaysencourage people to join , um,
you know, going on CRC, gettinggoing on Linked, you know,
getting in IARP or A BVEjoining these professional
networks , um, I, my smallbusiness association member in
my local area, but just kind ofgetting to know folks that do
(45:41):
the work you do, and it's kindof like that peer support
thing, right? Where you're ,um, you're dealing with a lot
of these folks and you'rehelping them, but you need to
have your own , um, what theycall, and they mention this in
school all the time about your,you know , your own mental
health break. Um, and I thinkthat's something that when you
work with similar mindedcolleagues and you can kind of
(46:05):
bounce those ideas off eachother, it's like your own
support network. So I thinkthat's the good thing, or the
thing I enjoy about working onmy own, because I think that
when I did work for the stateand the government, you had
coworkers , but your focus wason clients only, and you kind
of get caught up in that ratrace, so to speak, where like
(46:26):
you , you know, if you weren'tmeeting certain expectations at
that employer, you know, nobodycared whether you were dealing
with something or not. Youknow, the ironic thing is
working as a vocationalcounselor in those fields, you
didn't get really the empathythat the clients you worked
with got, which was kind ofironic to me. And I think that
(46:48):
that's another reason to goback to my , um, impetus for
starting my own business, is Iwanted to be able to kind of,
you know, get away from that.
Um, you know, that that kind of, um, bureaucratic,
bureaucratic mindset where youremployees had just come in,
punch the clock, do your joband leave. Um, I felt like that
(47:10):
was something where a lot ofthe folks I worked with, you
know, didn't get that , um,same compassion from their
employer, even though , um, alot of the folks I work with as
counselors, you know, they,they had had their own
experiences. So , um, and maybeemployers didn't feel like that
(47:31):
was their, you know, their ,um, responsibility. But I think
that's another thing is thatI'm always open to my coworkers
who are more contractors, butI'm always available to talk
about whatever they want totalk about. And I think that's
, um, that's a big piece ofworking for myself that I
enjoy.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Thank you to Joe Young for that informational
and engaging conversation. Inthe show notes, you can find
links to Joe's Business, JosephYoung Consulting LLC, as well
as information about the CRCCjob board where we list
positions from all across thecountry for both in person and
remote positions. If you haveany takeaways or insights on
(48:15):
topics covered in today'sepisode, email us at contact
us@crccertification.com. Besure to subscribe to this show
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, orwherever you're listening to us
today. You can find us onFacebook and LinkedIn at CRC
Cert , and our website is crccertification.com. Until next
(48:37):
time, I'm Taylor Bauer. Thankyou for listening to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling.
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