At the University of Illinois Urbana-Champaign, the Illinois Institute for Rehabilitation and Employment Research (IIRER) is a hub for innovation and discovery that addresses vocational behavior, community integration, career development, and employment. Partnering with communities in Illinois and around the world, IIRER is continuously innovating ways to enhance the skills of rehabilitation professionals.
On June 20th, the institute will host its Symposium on Mental Health and Work, providing a unique opportunity for professionals in Illinois and surrounding areas to enhance their knowledge and skills in serving clients with mental health and other health conditions.
The intersection of mental health, work, and disability is a crucial area for researchers and practitioners. Dr. Xiaolei Tang and Dr. David Strauser took the time to share some information about the Symposium and indicate why this type of training is crucial to improving clinical practices.
Register for the 2025 IIRER Symposium on Mental Health and Work on June 20th here.
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Episode Transcript
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Taylor Bauer, CRCC (00:04):
At the University of Illinois Urbana
Champaign, the IllinoisInstitute for Rehabilitation
and Employment Research is ahub for innovation and
discovery that addressesvocational behavior, community
integration, careerdevelopment, and employment,
partnering with communities inIllinois and around the world.
I-I-R-E-R is continuouslyinnovating ways to enhance the
(00:25):
skills of rehabilitationprofessionals. On June 20th,
the institute will host itssymposium on mental health and
work, which will provide aunique opportunity for
professionals in Illinois andsurrounding areas to enhance
their knowledge and skills inserving clients with mental
health and other healthconditions. The intersection of
mental health work anddisability is a crucial area
(00:46):
for researchers andpractitioners. Dr. Shale Tong
and Dr. David Strauser tooktime to share some information
with me about the symposium andindicate why this type of
training is crucial toimproving clinical practices.
Thank you both so much forjoining us here on Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling. Um,I wanna start by asking you
both , uh, the same question,Dr. Tong . Maybe we can start
(01:08):
with you. Um, when did youfirst learn about
rehabilitation counseling as afield, and can you tell me
about your journey to where youare today ?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (01:15):
Yeah, thank you, Taylor. Um, I , uh,
didn't get to know this field ,uh, until pretty later on. Uh,
I was born and raised in China.
Uh, I did my undergraduatestudying accounting in China.
Uh , I came to the US forgraduate school , uh, studying
nonprofit management inNortheastern universities in
Boston. That's where , uh, Ifirst landed in this country. I
(01:38):
did my internship , uh, atPerkin School for the Blind
Water , Tom Massachusetts. Andthat's where I got my first ,
uh, experience working withstudents with disabilities. And
I was very more interested indirect service area than the
administrative , uh, type ofwork. Uh, after graduating from
(01:58):
my , uh, first graduate schooland in nonprofit management, I
worked in a privatepost-secondary special
education school , uh, inMassachusetts. Uh, and I felt
like I was not, I I was nottrained in that area. Of
course, I, I didn't know muchabout working with people with
disabilities. Uh , so I wasexploring , uh, further
(02:18):
educational options. Uh, and myfriend taught me about the
graduate program at Universityof Wisconsin Madison . And
that's how I started moreformal professional training in
rehabilitation counseling. Uh,and I, I loved it and I
continued on and , uh, here Iam.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah. Thank you.
Good to be here. Um, my, myjourney started as an
undergraduate at UW Madison ,where I did all my coursework
and had a couple classesrelated to special ed. Intro to
Disability was one, or intro tothe Exceptional Child, so it
got me exposed to a coupleprofessors in the department at
UW Medicine , rehab and Specialed. And I was an education
(02:59):
major. And , um, I just endedup crossing paths through
classes with some prettyinfluential professors in my
life, like George Wright beingprime, one of them . And, you
know, it was just one of thosetimes that he, he pulled me
aside and he was like, what areyou gonna do after school? And
I said I was gonna go to a gradschool for school, school
(03:19):
guidance counseling. And hekind of talked me outta that
and talked up the voc rehabpiece of it quite a bit, really
emphasizing the private sectoras an area that I kind of was
interested in, got into. Andthat kind of triggered me to go
get my master's degree and thencome back and, and get a PhD
and pursue work in the, thefaculty area. I worked a little
(03:40):
bit doing private sectorworkers' comp, rehabing,
California for a couple years,and I really liked that, really
enjoyed it, but wanted to getmore into the, to the academic
side, the research side of it.
So, but really it was thefaculty at the UW Madison and
were pretty influential ongetting me into the field and
talking me. Uh, I would sayspecifically, again, George
Wright. I think it's alwaysgood to have somebody like that
(04:01):
kind of in your ear toencourage you to do stuff .
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (04:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah. We hear a lot of timesthat people come into this
profession 'cause a professorkind of pushes them in the
right direction, and it's greatto hear that , uh, that was the
case for you. So the IllinoisInstitute for Rehabilitation
and Employment Research ishosting a one day symposium on
mental health and workexploring innovative clinical
applications in the private andforensic sectors , uh, that is
(04:25):
going to be hosted here inSchaumburg, Illinois, where
CRCC is located on June 20th.
Could you both provide me anoverview of the symposium's
goals and what attendees canexpect from the content?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (04:36):
Um, yes.
Yes. Uh , I'll , I'll go aheadand start. Uh, and Dr. Strauser
, feel free to add anything.
Um, Dr. Strauser brought thisidea to our team, and we
started talking about this awhile ago. And, and we have
spent some q quite some timejust discussing what would be
the best way to , um, dosomething to address the needs.
(04:57):
Um, and there, there, there isa huge , um, needs avoiding
this area , uh, in forensic and, uh, private rehabilitation
sector since Covid . Um, andnot only because the pandemic
has exacerbated the existingchallenges in the field, but
also we're, we're losing some ,uh, reoccurring regular
training or professionaldevelopment opportunities
(05:19):
because of restrictions ofin-person activities and , uh,
lack of resource or decreasedlevel of resource. Uh , we , we
thought we should do somethingas an institute providing
trainings and addressing theneeds. That's the initial , uh,
discussion, the, the motivationof hosting a symposium Lexus .
And we're hoping to make thisas, as an annual event or even
(05:42):
more frequent event. Um , sothe , the goal of the symposium
is really to provide , uh,rehabilitation professionals ,
um, particularly in thenorthern Illinois, southern
Wisconsin, maybe even Indianaand Iowa , um, the surrounding
areas to get together and tohave some targeted , uh, and
high quality training sessions, um, addressing some key
(06:06):
issues , uh, in , uh, servingclients with mental health ,
uh, and other health conditionsthrough the lens of work or, or
in employment.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah , just to build on that too, I think Ale
indicated , we as an instituterecognized we're correcting the
assessment that there's a needfor training in the greater
Chicago metro area outside ofjust formal training programs
to hit practitioners within thefield. And there's a very
vibrant forensic community inthe Chicago, Milwaukee,
Rockford area. So, kinda feltthat was a good market. And I
(06:37):
think as much as mental healthis a focus now across a lot of
training programs, it's notvery often tied into work and
how it impacts work and whatpractitioners need to know
about how mental health impactswork, how work impacts mental
health, and yet it impactsalmost every kind of thing that
evoke rehab counselor does. So, um, we felt that this topic
is the first one to kind ofstart out with, would really
(06:59):
kind of be a good one toaddress a need in the
community, not only fromtraining availability, but also
being a topic that would berelevant to a lot of what
practitioners are needing.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (07:08):
And, you know, paid employment at a job
where an individual feelsfulfilled both socially and
professionally goes such a longway to improving someone's
quality of life. Where domental health and disability
intercept in a way that makesvocational rehabilitation
professionals uniquely equippedto secure employment for an
individual while also ensuringtheir wellness? Yeah, I
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Think both rehab counselors are really, really
uniquely equipped to this. Thisis what book Rehab Counseling's
about. It's about people'slevel of functioning and
maximizing their functioningand how they interact with the
community and environments oftheir choice, how they interact
with work. So rehab counselorsare uniquely skilled and
uniquely trained to be doingthat. And that's a critical
(07:50):
piece, as you mentioned, youknow, getting connected to the
work environment's reallyimportant because work gives
people purpose, it gives peoplesocial connection, it gives
people resources , um, it helpssymptom management. It helps
them just deal with overallstress. Um, conversely, work
can be stressful itself too. Sowe need to understand and be
(08:12):
aware that work environments,certain work environments,
certain types of work, can alsocreate mental health stress
problems and issues. It'sdifferent than mental health
counseling. Mental healthcounseling is there to treat
the mental health condition,which is certainly viable,
certainly critical. Voc rehabfocuses more on less
diagnostic, less, you know ,um, medical based type
(08:33):
intervention, focusing more onintegration within the
community, how people are ableto function within their
broader community work being acritical part of it.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (08:42):
Also , probably over one of the very
few professionals , uh, that ,uh, would understand or would ,
uh, address from the demandside, which would be on the
employer's side. And Dr.
Strauser did one of the earlierwork on demand side , um, so
that we understand employer'sneeds. We understand how
employer understand , uh,serving people. Uh, we're
(09:05):
hiring people withdisabilities. I think that's a
very unique capacity that wehave , um, working with our
clients.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (09:13):
Absolutely.
Yeah. I think when we think ofwork as a concept, a lot of
people maybe who don't have tonavigate a disability, just
think of work as like, notreally an option, right? Like,
you have to make a living to,to exist. And there's maybe,
you know, some stressors thatcome with, with just a , a , a
work schedule. But when , whenyou meet some disability and
mental health considerations,you realize how deeply
(09:36):
integrated work is to theindividual's self , their,
their life, their schedule. Andwhen hurdles start to emerge,
rather, that's when it becomesvery obvious how important work
can be to, to somebody'swellbeing. And I think when I
talk to people who don'tunderstand, or who have never
heard of vocationalrehabilitation professionals,
there's a lot of those piecesthat are interconnected and
(09:58):
interwoven that you kind of seethe light bulb click, where
they're like, oh, yeah, I neverreally thought of it that way.
And then I get to tell themthat there's this profession.
That research is that , uh,those , uh, connections and
those, those ways in which ,uh, work and your wellbeing and
your wellness and anydisabilities you might be
navigating are kind of allintertwined. And how do you
navigate that? And , and evenmore importantly, how do you
(10:20):
deeply understand how those areconnected so that you can move
forward in a, in a practicaland pragmatic way.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
I think that's really well said. And , um, I
would also add to that, I thinkwe underestimate how important
a person's identity related towork is. And I think what's
really important, we definework, work isn't employment,
work is productive activity .
So that can be expressed a lotof different ways. And I think
that's the key part that drivesthe benefits or drives the
(10:49):
benefits, is that feeling ofbeing productive. Um,
employment is a very commonexpression of work, but I think
we need to keep our eyes on theball too. That work is, is a
productive activity. And ourvocational identity is really
critical to that too. And ourvocational di identity is
dynamic as people evolve overthe course of their life. Rehab
counselors are uniquelyequipped to deal with that. And
(11:12):
that vocational identity iscomplimentary to other
identities that people have. Sothat , that's a really critical
piece to it as well, is thatidentity development formation
and helping people's identitycontinue to evolve over the
lifespan.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (11:25):
So the symposium's goal of offering
sessions that promotediscussion on enhancing
clinical practices for bothmental health and vocational
rehabilitation professionals isso important. One model in
particular that is highlighted, um, for the event is the
Illinois work and Wellbeingmodel. Uh, it's explicitly
mentioned on the symposium'swebsite, and I'm wondering if
you could summarize that modeland how it incorporates
(11:47):
considerations for all thethings we've just been talking
about. Work, society, community, um, and, and
Speaker 3 (11:52):
The home. So the Illinois Working Wellbeing
model is a model that developedout of our work at the
University of Illinois, over 30years of research and
development and service ofpeople with chronic health
conditions and disability. Um ,really important to PE just
people in general. And what themodel really highlights is
three, the interaction acrossthree major areas, and that is
(12:14):
what we call contextual areas,which are derived from the ICF,
the internationalclassification of functioning.
So lemme just back up. Themodel is based on two core
elements. It's based on theinternational classification of
functioning used by the WorldHealth Organization to
operationalize health. And thenit's also integrated with core
re , uh, career developmentresearch related to three major
(12:36):
areas of career development. Solet me good go to look at , we
have what the contextualdomain, which is really the ICF
framework of looking at howperson and environment impacts,
how a person functions it ,stressing to professionals,
researchers, counselors, that,you know , we gotta look at how
these personal environmentalfactors interact, impact
functioning. And our researchis showing that that
(12:57):
functioning is impacted bythose areas. And then
functioning of itself impactsthe second domain area, which
is the career domain, whichconsists of three major areas
of, of career development,which are awareness, a person's
identity development, theircareer maturity , uh,
acquisition, which is jobseeking, being able to get a
(13:17):
job, keep a job, find aneducational program that meets
your needs and your abilities,your interests, and then
maintenance, which is can Imaintain some connection with
the environment? Can I change,evolve, continue to meet the
needs of the environment as itgrows and changes as new
technology comes in, new, newways of working come in. So
(13:38):
that contextual and ac crewdomain interact. And then our
third domain is, is , uh,participation outcomes, where
we look at, again, based on theICF, where are four domains
that people participate, theyparticipate in their home work,
society, and personalrelationships. And what this
model is alluding to is thatthe interaction between the ,
the contextual domain and thecareer domain impact how people
(14:01):
participate across those fourmajor areas, or those four
factors related toparticipation. And then the
last piece that really kind ofbeen our , our most recent
evolution on this is , um, itwas always embedded in the
conceptualization of the model,but we added it on, and that's
wellbeing. Our goal is toreally increase wellbeing by
increasing participation in thehome , uh, work, society and
(14:25):
personal. We believe that thatalso increases a person's
overall wellbeing. And , um,we, we look at that as kind of
our overall arching outcome iswellbeing. So the model has ,
um, gained a lot of traction interms of research. It's been
used widely in research, beenused in the area of cancer and
some other areas in careerdevelopment. We are now taking
(14:45):
that model though, too. Andthis is what the symposium will
do, is put it into apractitioner based toolkit and
equip and model that can beused to kind of conceptualize,
you know, consumers, clients,individuals that they're
working with , and developtreatment planning or
intervention planning orresource allocation that can
(15:05):
help facilitate the connectionacross those different domains.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (15:10):
Then I think what's so crucial about ,
uh, voc rehab services is a lotof these things, you know, much
of society , uh, communitiesand even workplaces and the ,
the , the job market, theworking world in general, are
not built for people withdisabilities who are navigating
these functional limitations toparticipate. So how do you
connect them to methods orstrategies or , um, conduct
(15:33):
assessments to allow them togain information, to know how
to navigate those moreeffectively and eventually end
up in that position of feelinglike they're fully integrated.
You know, that's part of the,the mission statement at
A-C-R-C-C is people deservefully integrated lives, and
that's not just, you know,hopefully they get the most
that they can get and we'llcall it, you know, good enough.
(15:53):
It's really about how do wenavigate within these sorts of
models and these frameworkspaths for people to be able to
have the integration into aworking life, a, a social life,
a community life , um, thatanybody who's not navigating a
disability would have accessto. And I, I think that's very
important, and especially forour purposes at C-R-I-C-C of
(16:13):
trying to explain why thisprofession is so impactful. Um,
I don't think anybody wouldargue that being able to go to
work and participate in socialfunctions and, you know, go
hang out with friends andnavigate your community without
any , um, major issues isimportant. And that's not the
case for, for millions ofAmericans. And researching and,
and equipping practitionerswith a model to be able to
(16:36):
connect all these things and ,um, address them , I think is
just , uh, something that a lotof folks would be very
interested in knowing thatthere's a profession out there
doing this work. And , um, asI'm sure both of, you know,
when we are talking to peopleabout the work of , uh, CRCs or
rehab counselors in general ,uh, we get a lot of people who
are like, I've never heard ofthat before. And it's so
important with how many ofthese, these facets of life are
(16:59):
integrated and important to allof us. So I appreciate you
sharing some insight into thatmodel. Mental health has become
a topic we explore andinvestigate much more publicly
in recent years than we have inthe past. Given the symposium's
emphasis on private andforensic sectors, what
connections between mentalhealth and work still need
further exploration?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Our understanding of mental health issues continues
to evolve and grow, whetherwe're talking from a
neuroscience perspective , um,um, you know, psychological
perspective, environmentalperspective, how pharmacology
impacts people's functioning ,um, genetics. So is , is the
science of mental healthcontinues to evolve as
(17:41):
vocational rehabilitationprofessionals, and as work even
continues to evolve, we need toconstantly be looking at how do
the work environments impactpeople's mental health and how
does mental health impact aperson's ability to interact
with the work environment? Andso we have a good understanding
of those in some areas, but Ithink when we really start to
look at breaking it down morewhere research needs to go is
(18:03):
the impact of stress on workand mental health , um, how
people's perceptions of theirown health condition can impact
them too, so that they canbetter manage their condition
within the work environments.
Uh, how does that , how do wedo that effectively and what
interventions could possibly befocused in that area? I think
helping equip employers withpractical research informed,
(18:29):
you know, tools to be able tohelp manage the mental health
issues within their ownworkplace. Minding that most
employers , um, are unaware ofpeople's mental health
conditions as a whole. And ,um, there's probably a lot of
employees who are being treatedfor mental health conditions or
dealing with mental healthconditions within the
workplace. So it's not justpeople who are coming in from
(18:51):
the voc rehab program or askingfor some accommodations, it's
probably a broader issue intheir workforce. So helping
employers develop some ofthose, those understandings and
see how effective that is andhelping manage workplace
retention work , you know, rereduce these absence. And , and
then I think also justunderstanding how we can
facilitate vocational behaviorchange better. How can we
(19:14):
continue to improve how peoplechange , um, from a vocational
perspective, we have a lot of,a lot of focus right now,
understandably andappropriately on clinical
mental health, clinical rehabcounseling, and how we treat a
specific condition. But I thinkwe talked about integration
into the community andintegration in the workplace.
We need to understand how thatcondition impacts vocational
(19:37):
behavior and how we can workwith the behavior patterns to
change to help people becomebetter situated in a broader
environment.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (19:45):
Yeah.
Also , just to add on thatsome, some emerging areas like
the, the remote work modality.
Um, h how does that impact ,uh, someone's , um, wellbeing
in terms of being at work , uh,conducting the work? Uh ,
because moving everything oreven part of the work remotely
(20:05):
is impacting the social aspectsof the work. And we, we need to
evaluate the impact on eachindividual client, and we, we
need to know how , uh, some mayprefer this way , uh, the
lacking of the social aspect,and that provides certain,
certain level of accommodation,but , um, but this lacking of ,
of social aspects in terms ofremote working may also be ,
(20:28):
um, detrimental to, to somepeople , uh, who , who may need
that social aspect. So , um,that part we need to , uh, know
how to do the evaluation workand how to communicate with
employers as well. Um, and, andthe things like , uh, how to
serve and work with specificpopulations, people with
specific psychiatricconditions. Um, I think that
(20:49):
also , uh, has a lot of roomfor more research and work and
understanding , uh, how do weprovide specific support to
address behavior issues , um,medical aspects , um,
management of the symptoms ,uh, and connecting people with
all these needs with employersand how to communicate with
employers , uh, self-assessment, uh, and such. Um, so these
(21:11):
are all some areas that westill need a lot of research on
, uh, and consistent trainingsfor , uh, practitioners across
the country serving , uh, thispopulation.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (21:23):
Absolutely.
Yeah. It's, it's certainly notone size fits all . Um, I know
I came across a webinar, itwasn't within the re
rehabilitation counselingprofession, but I think it was
an HR webinar and it was aboutmanaging neurodiversity in the
workplace. And I just, evenfrom the title, I was like,
well, neuro diversity is notjust one mental health
condition or, or a diagnosablething, it's, it , it involves a
(21:45):
lot of different things thatwould need specific
considerations for being ableto support an employee , um, in
the way that they need to besupported. And I think it's,
it's like you said, it's veryimportant to continue
researching all of the specificconsiderations , um, that are
needed to be able to fullysupport employees. And , uh,
Dr. Stressor , you said, youknow, employers aren't always
(22:05):
really equipped for those sortsof things. Um, I know we're
developing some toolkits atCRCC to try to go out and talk
to, to employers and say, theseare things that you , you need
to be equipped to handle , uh,for your employees. Not only
because you know of laws thatstate, you have to be able to
accommodate these things, butalso if you want to be able to
attract talent, you want tomake sure that you are
(22:27):
supporting your employees inthe ways that they, they need
to be supported. And , um,obviously our, our position is
we'd love a, a certifiedrehabilitation counselor in
every single, major businessand, and company in the world.
And , uh, you'd have someone onstaff, but yeah. How do you
maybe partner with folks inyour community who offer these
services in private practiceor, or , um, some something of
that sort to be able tounderstand these things more
(22:49):
deeply because you work whenthey're not working with
someone who is fully equipped,like a rehabilitation counselor
is to navigate these things,stuff falls through the cracks
and unfortunately, employees gowithout certain , uh, support
or services or accommodationsthat are very vital to their
ability to succeed and feel,you know, like they are well
supported within a workenvironment.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I think, again , you hit right on the head there on
what the importance of a rehabcounselor is versus a mental
health counselor is, is rehabcounselors are uniquely
equipped to deal with thesethings within the work
environment. It's unfortunatethat 20, 30 years ago, 35, 40
years ago, these were areasthat were emerging. When we
look at work from, likesomebody like Rochelle Beck ,
um, with disability management,some of these things going on,
(23:33):
these were evolving things thatjust kind of become,
unfortunately just kind ofstagnant and not continue to
evolve. And there's reallyneeds there. And I don't think
we're, as a field are helpingidentify employers identify the
needs that they have and howimportant it is to have a
trained professional there whounderstands that integration
(23:55):
work component to help maximizetheir productivity as a
company. You know, we, we, weneed, we need those types of
professionals. And again, Iwould say rehab counselors can
be uniquely equipped whentrained in , in a, in a good
way to be able to , to dealwith those things.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (24:11):
Yeah, being able to see things from both
the client perspective and alsothe employer perspective. You
know, they're there to serveeveryone involved to make sure
that , um, everybody's feelingsupported and, and connected in
a way where everyone's going toget the outcomes that they're
looking to achieve. And I thinkthat that's a , a , a huge
reason why we need to get theword out there even more about
how vital it is to have thesepeople , um, as a part of your,
(24:34):
as a part of your team. Onepath regarding disability and
work that presents uniqueconsiderations is the
experience of acquiring adisability through injury or
another factor when it comes tothe intersection of mental
health and work. What role can, uh, vocational rehabilitation
professionals uniquely play insupporting an individual who
may be experiencing disabilitygrief?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (24:55):
Um, I , I think , uh, we as , uh,
vocational rehabilitationcounselors or professionals ,
uh, we, we can definitely helpfacilitate the process of grief
, uh, whether it's related tothe onset of , uh, the
disability or like you said, aninjury that had happened , um,
or , or the subsequentadaptation process or, or both.
(25:18):
Uh , it's very complicated, but, uh, uh, people have the
misconception of we, we need to, uh, go through , uh, very
extensive trainings onproviding , uh, grief support.
I think , uh, it's differentfrom , uh, providing grief
counseling, which will be amental health rim capacity. Uh,
some may be able to with the ,uh, appropriate training, but
(25:42):
us as vocational rehabilitationprofessionals, we are equipped
, uh, and we should be , uh,providing grief support. Uh,
while we're providing serviceand working individuals with
disabilities , uh, we can helpfacilitate the process , uh,
understand , um, the onsetprocess , uh, understand each
(26:02):
individual's , uh, adaptationprocess. And we also need to be
very mindful that not everyone, uh, who acquired a
disability, they wouldexperience disability grief .
Uh, i, I would say it's aperceived loss , uh, I would
use that term , uh, 'cause eachindividual's , um, coping
mechanism is different. Uh, andalso we need to understand that
(26:25):
each individual grieves difdifferently, and it's not a , a
one time , uh, thing thathappened . And it , it can
expand at a different phase ofpeople's adaptation process.
Uh, and this is not a newconcept. I, I view this as part
of the psychosocial adaptationprocess. Uh, Dr. Hanock Liv's
psychosocial adaptation model.
(26:46):
We adapted from grief model ,um, and we already have the
early on , uh, theories andmodels to help us understand
this phenomenon. Um, our rolereally is to , uh, first to
validate their grief , uh, notto pathologize it, which is
probably a little bit differentfrom , uh, mental health or UHS
(27:07):
psychiatry. Um, and , uh, butwe view grief as part of the,
the natural responses , uh, tolife events, not necessarily
death related. Um, and , uh,validate their each individual
adaptation process. Some peoplemay take longer in , in the
hospital accepting the realityof , like , I , I got a spinal
(27:28):
cord injury. Uh, some peoplemay take longer transition from
home, from hospital to home. Uh, a whole different lifestyle
has changed. Um, and it alsodepends on when , uh, was the
onset of the disability. Um, Idid my dissertation
interviewing , uh, people withacquired disability. And , uh,
I've heard stories about , uh,feeling more intense disability
(27:52):
grief later in their life , um,when their peers are about to
retire, celebrating theirretirement. Uh, there's success
of, of employment and, and work, uh, a milestone or , uh,
friends getting married, havingkids, having grandkids. And at
those moments, at those lifestages , uh, because maybe not
(28:13):
just the onset of disability orhaving a disability, but , uh,
people may grieve , uh, andthink about the whole from just
a life perspective. Um, so ,uh, everyone is different.
It's, it's important tofacilitate that process again.
Um, and , uh, it , it doesn'tmean that we, when once they,
(28:34):
they tell us that , um, they'reexperiencing disability grief,
and they perceive , uh, theloss of the functionality as
something that , uh, thatthey're still adapting to in
their life. It doesn't meanthat we have to refer 'em to a
psychologist or , uh, it is a ,uh, flag for mental health
issues, but it's more so as ,uh, of telling you their life
(28:57):
story and validating , uh,where they're right now. I
think it's pretty effective of, in terms of establishing the
report between you as apractitioner and , um, clients.
Um, and , uh, I always advocatefor some more reef education be
included in our trainingcurriculum , uh, including
those classic , uh, more thancontemporary models so that we
(29:21):
understand grief from just ahuman natural responses
perspective. Instead of , uh, Ithink some of us had to take ,
uh, path , um, pathology , uh,uh, psychopathology class and
knowing the DSM diagnosis , uh,I think that's, that's not the
emphasis of us understandinggrief and the theories behind
it , uh, but more so , uh, weview it as part of the
(29:44):
adaptation process. And , uh,and also just a whole society.
I, I always advocate thatthere's a , the need to view
grief differently , uh, justmore from a non-pathological
perspective so that it iseasier for us to talk about
grief , uh, to help usfacilitate that process. And
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (30:02):
Yeah, it was a concept that was new to
me when I was researching tocome up with some questions to
talk with you both about. And ,um, as I was encountering your
dissertation and, and readingabout that, it really struck me
, um, as somebody who, youknow, my father , uh, received
an aphasia diagnosis in 2021and , um, had to leave the
workforce and hearing him talkabout some of the things he was
(30:23):
feeling about that , um,particularly a frustration that
from most of his perspective,he felt like he should still be
able to work mm-hmm . But it just was
something he was, he was acorporate accountant, so it was
something that was becomingvery difficult for him. And
hearing him talk through that alittle bit, and then reading
some of this , uh, work ondisability grief, I was like,
that's an entire process. Um,as you mentioned, that isn't
(30:47):
the same for every person, andnot everyone might go through
it at all or to the same , uh,extent, but it was something
that really struck me as you'rehaving to take a perceived
reality and a and , and alifestyle and , and things like
that. And now shift them in thewake of new limitations that
you're experiencing. And , um,of course that has mental
health , uh, impacts and , and, and yeah . And , uh,
(31:10):
reactions that you feel. And Ithink it's important to be able
to navigate those things with aprofessional, but it doesn't
have to necessarily just be amental health professional,
particularly as you're beingable to balance things like
mental health and your abilityto work or , uh, your ability
to potentially return to workwith some , uh, alterations or
accommodations. And , um,again, that's kind of where
(31:31):
rehabilitation counseling is avery specific field , um, that
has a unique , um, expertise indealing with a situation like
this.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (31:39):
Yeah.
Yeah . Thank you for sharingthe story , uh, of your father.
And, and I think underdisability grief , uh, we work
with people who, a lot of 'emhave experience of
unemployment. So job loss griefis another , uh, specific
phenomenon that we probablyencounter more often than other
professionals. Uh , and thatmay involve this previous
(32:00):
discrimination experience , uh,uh, previous talk , toxic work
environment. Uh , again, justgoing back to what Dr. Strauser
said about understanding thework environment, the work
culture, and how do we do , uh,preventions , uh, when we're
trying to help individuals toget back to work , uh, that's
healthy, that's sustainable.
(32:22):
Uh, and that's helpful for ,uh, just wellbeing.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (32:26):
We know that research regarding mental
health and disability continuesto increase our understanding
of how to best supportindividuals with disabilities
in their goal of achievinggainful fulfilling employment.
What elements of thissymposium's focus are most
severely missing from the waythat we look at employment and
disability? And how can weensure these essential concepts
(32:47):
are integrated more effectivelyinto our communities?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (32:50):
That there are a lot of areas in, in
this , uh, area, mental healthand work that , uh, needs to be
addressed. We , we need tocontinue to prepare employers.
We've talked about thisrepeatedly , uh, during our
time together so far , um, toassess where they're at in
terms of understandingspecifically mental health ,
um, mental health of theiremployees, just in general
(33:12):
organizational , uh,environment, and how does that
impact , uh, employees mentalhealth. Um, and , um, this will
be addressed , uh, by ourspeakers in different sessions
, uh, in the symposium fromemployers perspective and also
, uh, as rehabilitationprofessionals. Um , but we work
with individuals with differentconditions, mental health,
(33:35):
psychiatric conditions, and weneed to be equipped with
teaching client withself-management skills. Um, and
, um, we're all trainingdifferent levels of medical
aspects of different healthconditions. But I think what's
lacking is we're not carryingthis knowledge over , uh, to
our clients. 'cause there aredoctors , uh, MD doctors , uh,
(33:58):
who are doing , uh, of coursethat's their focus. Um, and ,
uh, there is not a very , uh,specific requirement , uh, in
most places that this issomething that , uh, as part of
our job of providing some very, uh, even just basic but uh,
uh, helpful self-managementskills or recommendations , uh,
(34:21):
or resource even. Um, so , uh,this is something that will be
addressed in at least one ofour sessions. Um, and we also
need to understand how toefficiently support our client
to not just get a job, butsustain a job That includes
assessing work environment,communication with employers,
(34:42):
understanding the rights as anemployee, understanding , uh,
accommodation needs , um, andself-assessment skills. Uh, so
, uh, very importantly, ourclients come to us. We need to
have a , a non-pathologicalapproach because giving a
diagnosis is not our focus. Weunderstand diagnosis, we
(35:04):
understand what that involvesand the behavior indications.
Um, but we have a more holisticunderstanding of the person as
a whole, including theirsocial, cultural ,
environmental context, whichwill be addressed by the
Illinois work and wellbeingmodel. Um, and we also need to
, um, stick with our strengthsbased approach and maybe even ,
(35:27):
even broaden it , uh, includingnormalizing people's
experience. Um, like grief. Um, people typically would view
grief as a negative , uh,coping mechanism, but I think
it, it is, we , we need tochange that perspective. It is
a normal human , uh, experiencejust through our, our lens of
(35:49):
work and promoting a more , uh,preventative based , proactive
approach. Um, I think involvingemployers , uh, uh, educating
our clients and providing , um,hands-on skills and tools to
our attendees. Those are someof the themes I think are
(36:10):
missing or it's not beingaddressed enough in this field.
And it , it's gonna be providedthrough our symposium
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Pick up on something that Jelle said in her , in her
response. And that is theIllinois model is a really good
model to conceptualize themultidimensional nature of the
individual, themultidimensional nature of the
outcomes that we're looking forin . And the symposium will
give people a hands-on , um,template to use to be able to
(36:39):
conceptualize that both forclinical , uh, vocational
counseling interventions, alsowage loss and different things
like that. So it becomes a , amodel that is, has some
flexibility to, it gives aframework for VR counselors,
conceptualizing the individualas a whole, that from a
holistic perspective.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (37:00):
J just as a reminder , uh, this , uh,
upcoming , um, IR r Symposiumand Mental Health and Work ,
uh, we're gonna havepre-approved , uh, CRCC , uh,
continuing education credits ,um, both general and , uh,
ethics. Um, we're also gonnahave pre-approved social work,
Illinois social work continuingeducation credits , uh, that
(37:22):
can be applied to L-P-C-L-C-P-C, uh, very importantly, we're
gonna have breakfast and lunch.
Very good breakfast and lunch.
Um, and it's gonna be on aFriday. So we really hope to
see you there.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (37:39):
Thank you to Dr. Tong and Dr. Strauser
for that informational andengaging conversation. In the
show notes, you can find a linkto register for the 2025
I-I-R-E-R symposium on mentalhealth and work taking place on
June 20th at the ChicagoMarriott Schomburg here in
Illinois. If you have anytakeaways or insights on topics
covered in today's episode,email us at contact
(38:01):
us@crccertification.com. Besure to subscribe to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling onApple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you're listening to ustoday. You can find us on
Facebook and LinkedIn at CRCCert , and our website is crc
certification.com. Until nexttime, I'm CRCC, director of
(38:22):
Communications and Marketing,Taylor Bauer. Thank you for
listening to InsideRehabilitation Counseling.
At the University of Illinois Urbana
Champaign, the IllinoisInstitute for Rehabilitation
and Employment Research is ahub for innovation and
discovery that addressesvocational behavior, community
integration, careerdevelopment, and employment,
partnering with communities inIllinois and around the world.
I-I-R-E-R is continuouslyinnovating ways to enhance the
(00:25):
skills of rehabilitationprofessionals. On June 20th,
the institute will host itssymposium on mental health and
work, which will provide aunique opportunity for
professionals in Illinois andsurrounding areas to enhance
their knowledge and skills inserving clients with mental
health and other healthconditions. The intersection of
mental health work anddisability is a crucial area
(00:46):
for researchers andpractitioners. Dr. Shale Tong
and Dr. David Strauser tooktime to share some information
with me about the symposium andindicate why this type of
training is crucial toimproving clinical practices.
Thank you both so much forjoining us here on Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling. Um,I wanna start by asking you
both , uh, the same question,Dr. Tong . Maybe we can start
(01:08):
with you. Um, when did youfirst learn about
rehabilitation counseling as afield, and can you tell me
about your journey to where youare today ?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (01:15):
Yeah, thank you, Taylor. Um, I , uh,
didn't get to know this field ,uh, until pretty later on. Uh,
I was born and raised in China.
Uh, I did my undergraduatestudying accounting in China.
Uh , I came to the US forgraduate school , uh, studying
nonprofit management inNortheastern universities in
Boston. That's where , uh, Ifirst landed in this country. I
(01:38):
did my internship , uh, atPerkin School for the Blind
Water , Tom Massachusetts. Andthat's where I got my first ,
uh, experience working withstudents with disabilities. And
I was very more interested indirect service area than the
administrative , uh, type ofwork. Uh, after graduating from
(01:58):
my , uh, first graduate schooland in nonprofit management, I
worked in a privatepost-secondary special
education school , uh, inMassachusetts. Uh, and I felt
like I was not, I I was nottrained in that area. Of
course, I, I didn't know muchabout working with people with
disabilities. Uh , so I wasexploring , uh, further
(02:18):
educational options. Uh, and myfriend taught me about the
graduate program at Universityof Wisconsin Madison . And
that's how I started moreformal professional training in
rehabilitation counseling. Uh,and I, I loved it and I
continued on and , uh, here Iam.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yeah. Thank you.
Good to be here. Um, my, myjourney started as an
undergraduate at UW Madison ,where I did all my coursework
and had a couple classesrelated to special ed. Intro to
Disability was one, or intro tothe Exceptional Child, so it
got me exposed to a coupleprofessors in the department at
UW Medicine , rehab and Specialed. And I was an education
(02:59):
major. And , um, I just endedup crossing paths through
classes with some prettyinfluential professors in my
life, like George Wright beingprime, one of them . And, you
know, it was just one of thosetimes that he, he pulled me
aside and he was like, what areyou gonna do after school? And
I said I was gonna go to a gradschool for school, school
(03:19):
guidance counseling. And hekind of talked me outta that
and talked up the voc rehabpiece of it quite a bit, really
emphasizing the private sectoras an area that I kind of was
interested in, got into. Andthat kind of triggered me to go
get my master's degree and thencome back and, and get a PhD
and pursue work in the, thefaculty area. I worked a little
(03:40):
bit doing private sectorworkers' comp, rehabing,
California for a couple years,and I really liked that, really
enjoyed it, but wanted to getmore into the, to the academic
side, the research side of it.
So, but really it was thefaculty at the UW Madison and
were pretty influential ongetting me into the field and
talking me. Uh, I would sayspecifically, again, George
Wright. I think it's alwaysgood to have somebody like that
(04:01):
kind of in your ear toencourage you to do stuff .
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (04:04):
Absolutely.
Yeah. We hear a lot of timesthat people come into this
profession 'cause a professorkind of pushes them in the
right direction, and it's greatto hear that , uh, that was the
case for you. So the IllinoisInstitute for Rehabilitation
and Employment Research ishosting a one day symposium on
mental health and workexploring innovative clinical
applications in the private andforensic sectors , uh, that is
(04:25):
going to be hosted here inSchaumburg, Illinois, where
CRCC is located on June 20th.
Could you both provide me anoverview of the symposium's
goals and what attendees canexpect from the content?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (04:36):
Um, yes.
Yes. Uh , I'll , I'll go aheadand start. Uh, and Dr. Strauser
, feel free to add anything.
Um, Dr. Strauser brought thisidea to our team, and we
started talking about this awhile ago. And, and we have
spent some q quite some timejust discussing what would be
the best way to , um, dosomething to address the needs.
(04:57):
Um, and there, there, there isa huge , um, needs avoiding
this area , uh, in forensic and, uh, private rehabilitation
sector since Covid . Um, andnot only because the pandemic
has exacerbated the existingchallenges in the field, but
also we're, we're losing some ,uh, reoccurring regular
training or professionaldevelopment opportunities
(05:19):
because of restrictions ofin-person activities and , uh,
lack of resource or decreasedlevel of resource. Uh , we , we
thought we should do somethingas an institute providing
trainings and addressing theneeds. That's the initial , uh,
discussion, the, the motivationof hosting a symposium Lexus .
And we're hoping to make thisas, as an annual event or even
(05:42):
more frequent event. Um , sothe , the goal of the symposium
is really to provide , uh,rehabilitation professionals ,
um, particularly in thenorthern Illinois, southern
Wisconsin, maybe even Indianaand Iowa , um, the surrounding
areas to get together and tohave some targeted , uh, and
high quality training sessions, um, addressing some key
(06:06):
issues , uh, in , uh, servingclients with mental health ,
uh, and other health conditionsthrough the lens of work or, or
in employment.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Yeah , just to build on that too, I think Ale
indicated , we as an instituterecognized we're correcting the
assessment that there's a needfor training in the greater
Chicago metro area outside ofjust formal training programs
to hit practitioners within thefield. And there's a very
vibrant forensic community inthe Chicago, Milwaukee,
Rockford area. So, kinda feltthat was a good market. And I
(06:37):
think as much as mental healthis a focus now across a lot of
training programs, it's notvery often tied into work and
how it impacts work and whatpractitioners need to know
about how mental health impactswork, how work impacts mental
health, and yet it impactsalmost every kind of thing that
evoke rehab counselor does. So, um, we felt that this topic
is the first one to kind ofstart out with, would really
(06:59):
kind of be a good one toaddress a need in the
community, not only fromtraining availability, but also
being a topic that would berelevant to a lot of what
practitioners are needing.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (07:08):
And, you know, paid employment at a job
where an individual feelsfulfilled both socially and
professionally goes such a longway to improving someone's
quality of life. Where domental health and disability
intercept in a way that makesvocational rehabilitation
professionals uniquely equippedto secure employment for an
individual while also ensuringtheir wellness? Yeah, I
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Think both rehab counselors are really, really
uniquely equipped to this. Thisis what book Rehab Counseling's
about. It's about people'slevel of functioning and
maximizing their functioningand how they interact with the
community and environments oftheir choice, how they interact
with work. So rehab counselorsare uniquely skilled and
uniquely trained to be doingthat. And that's a critical
(07:50):
piece, as you mentioned, youknow, getting connected to the
work environment's reallyimportant because work gives
people purpose, it gives peoplesocial connection, it gives
people resources , um, it helpssymptom management. It helps
them just deal with overallstress. Um, conversely, work
can be stressful itself too. Sowe need to understand and be
(08:12):
aware that work environments,certain work environments,
certain types of work, can alsocreate mental health stress
problems and issues. It'sdifferent than mental health
counseling. Mental healthcounseling is there to treat
the mental health condition,which is certainly viable,
certainly critical. Voc rehabfocuses more on less
diagnostic, less, you know ,um, medical based type
(08:33):
intervention, focusing more onintegration within the
community, how people are ableto function within their
broader community work being acritical part of it.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (08:42):
Also , probably over one of the very
few professionals , uh, that ,uh, would understand or would ,
uh, address from the demandside, which would be on the
employer's side. And Dr.
Strauser did one of the earlierwork on demand side , um, so
that we understand employer'sneeds. We understand how
employer understand , uh,serving people. Uh, we're
(09:05):
hiring people withdisabilities. I think that's a
very unique capacity that wehave , um, working with our
clients.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (09:13):
Absolutely.
Yeah. I think when we think ofwork as a concept, a lot of
people maybe who don't have tonavigate a disability, just
think of work as like, notreally an option, right? Like,
you have to make a living to,to exist. And there's maybe,
you know, some stressors thatcome with, with just a , a , a
work schedule. But when , whenyou meet some disability and
mental health considerations,you realize how deeply
(09:36):
integrated work is to theindividual's self , their,
their life, their schedule. Andwhen hurdles start to emerge,
rather, that's when it becomesvery obvious how important work
can be to, to somebody'swellbeing. And I think when I
talk to people who don'tunderstand, or who have never
heard of vocationalrehabilitation professionals,
there's a lot of those piecesthat are interconnected and
(09:58):
interwoven that you kind of seethe light bulb click, where
they're like, oh, yeah, I neverreally thought of it that way.
And then I get to tell themthat there's this profession.
That research is that , uh,those , uh, connections and
those, those ways in which ,uh, work and your wellbeing and
your wellness and anydisabilities you might be
navigating are kind of allintertwined. And how do you
navigate that? And , and evenmore importantly, how do you
(10:20):
deeply understand how those areconnected so that you can move
forward in a, in a practicaland pragmatic way.
Speaker 3 (10:26):
I think that's really well said. And , um, I
would also add to that, I thinkwe underestimate how important
a person's identity related towork is. And I think what's
really important, we definework, work isn't employment,
work is productive activity .
So that can be expressed a lotof different ways. And I think
that's the key part that drivesthe benefits or drives the
(10:49):
benefits, is that feeling ofbeing productive. Um,
employment is a very commonexpression of work, but I think
we need to keep our eyes on theball too. That work is, is a
productive activity. And ourvocational identity is really
critical to that too. And ourvocational di identity is
dynamic as people evolve overthe course of their life. Rehab
counselors are uniquelyequipped to deal with that. And
(11:12):
that vocational identity iscomplimentary to other
identities that people have. Sothat , that's a really critical
piece to it as well, is thatidentity development formation
and helping people's identitycontinue to evolve over the
lifespan.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (11:25):
So the symposium's goal of offering
sessions that promotediscussion on enhancing
clinical practices for bothmental health and vocational
rehabilitation professionals isso important. One model in
particular that is highlighted, um, for the event is the
Illinois work and Wellbeingmodel. Uh, it's explicitly
mentioned on the symposium'swebsite, and I'm wondering if
you could summarize that modeland how it incorporates
(11:47):
considerations for all thethings we've just been talking
about. Work, society, community, um, and, and
Speaker 3 (11:52):
The home. So the Illinois Working Wellbeing
model is a model that developedout of our work at the
University of Illinois, over 30years of research and
development and service ofpeople with chronic health
conditions and disability. Um ,really important to PE just
people in general. And what themodel really highlights is
three, the interaction acrossthree major areas, and that is
(12:14):
what we call contextual areas,which are derived from the ICF,
the internationalclassification of functioning.
So lemme just back up. Themodel is based on two core
elements. It's based on theinternational classification of
functioning used by the WorldHealth Organization to
operationalize health. And thenit's also integrated with core
re , uh, career developmentresearch related to three major
(12:36):
areas of career development. Solet me good go to look at , we
have what the contextualdomain, which is really the ICF
framework of looking at howperson and environment impacts,
how a person functions it ,stressing to professionals,
researchers, counselors, that,you know , we gotta look at how
these personal environmentalfactors interact, impact
functioning. And our researchis showing that that
(12:57):
functioning is impacted bythose areas. And then
functioning of itself impactsthe second domain area, which
is the career domain, whichconsists of three major areas
of, of career development,which are awareness, a person's
identity development, theircareer maturity , uh,
acquisition, which is jobseeking, being able to get a
(13:17):
job, keep a job, find aneducational program that meets
your needs and your abilities,your interests, and then
maintenance, which is can Imaintain some connection with
the environment? Can I change,evolve, continue to meet the
needs of the environment as itgrows and changes as new
technology comes in, new, newways of working come in. So
(13:38):
that contextual and ac crewdomain interact. And then our
third domain is, is , uh,participation outcomes, where
we look at, again, based on theICF, where are four domains
that people participate, theyparticipate in their home work,
society, and personalrelationships. And what this
model is alluding to is thatthe interaction between the ,
the contextual domain and thecareer domain impact how people
(14:01):
participate across those fourmajor areas, or those four
factors related toparticipation. And then the
last piece that really kind ofbeen our , our most recent
evolution on this is , um, itwas always embedded in the
conceptualization of the model,but we added it on, and that's
wellbeing. Our goal is toreally increase wellbeing by
increasing participation in thehome , uh, work, society and
(14:25):
personal. We believe that thatalso increases a person's
overall wellbeing. And , um,we, we look at that as kind of
our overall arching outcome iswellbeing. So the model has ,
um, gained a lot of traction interms of research. It's been
used widely in research, beenused in the area of cancer and
some other areas in careerdevelopment. We are now taking
(14:45):
that model though, too. Andthis is what the symposium will
do, is put it into apractitioner based toolkit and
equip and model that can beused to kind of conceptualize,
you know, consumers, clients,individuals that they're
working with , and developtreatment planning or
intervention planning orresource allocation that can
(15:05):
help facilitate the connectionacross those different domains.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (15:10):
Then I think what's so crucial about ,
uh, voc rehab services is a lotof these things, you know, much
of society , uh, communitiesand even workplaces and the ,
the , the job market, theworking world in general, are
not built for people withdisabilities who are navigating
these functional limitations toparticipate. So how do you
connect them to methods orstrategies or , um, conduct
(15:33):
assessments to allow them togain information, to know how
to navigate those moreeffectively and eventually end
up in that position of feelinglike they're fully integrated.
You know, that's part of the,the mission statement at
A-C-R-C-C is people deservefully integrated lives, and
that's not just, you know,hopefully they get the most
that they can get and we'llcall it, you know, good enough.
(15:53):
It's really about how do wenavigate within these sorts of
models and these frameworkspaths for people to be able to
have the integration into aworking life, a, a social life,
a community life , um, thatanybody who's not navigating a
disability would have accessto. And I, I think that's very
important, and especially forour purposes at C-R-I-C-C of
(16:13):
trying to explain why thisprofession is so impactful. Um,
I don't think anybody wouldargue that being able to go to
work and participate in socialfunctions and, you know, go
hang out with friends andnavigate your community without
any , um, major issues isimportant. And that's not the
case for, for millions ofAmericans. And researching and,
and equipping practitionerswith a model to be able to
(16:36):
connect all these things and ,um, address them , I think is
just , uh, something that a lotof folks would be very
interested in knowing thatthere's a profession out there
doing this work. And , um, asI'm sure both of, you know,
when we are talking to peopleabout the work of , uh, CRCs or
rehab counselors in general ,uh, we get a lot of people who
are like, I've never heard ofthat before. And it's so
important with how many ofthese, these facets of life are
(16:59):
integrated and important to allof us. So I appreciate you
sharing some insight into thatmodel. Mental health has become
a topic we explore andinvestigate much more publicly
in recent years than we have inthe past. Given the symposium's
emphasis on private andforensic sectors, what
connections between mentalhealth and work still need
further exploration?
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Our understanding of mental health issues continues
to evolve and grow, whetherwe're talking from a
neuroscience perspective , um,um, you know, psychological
perspective, environmentalperspective, how pharmacology
impacts people's functioning ,um, genetics. So is , is the
science of mental healthcontinues to evolve as
(17:41):
vocational rehabilitationprofessionals, and as work even
continues to evolve, we need toconstantly be looking at how do
the work environments impactpeople's mental health and how
does mental health impact aperson's ability to interact
with the work environment? Andso we have a good understanding
of those in some areas, but Ithink when we really start to
look at breaking it down morewhere research needs to go is
(18:03):
the impact of stress on workand mental health , um, how
people's perceptions of theirown health condition can impact
them too, so that they canbetter manage their condition
within the work environments.
Uh, how does that , how do wedo that effectively and what
interventions could possibly befocused in that area? I think
helping equip employers withpractical research informed,
(18:29):
you know, tools to be able tohelp manage the mental health
issues within their ownworkplace. Minding that most
employers , um, are unaware ofpeople's mental health
conditions as a whole. And ,um, there's probably a lot of
employees who are being treatedfor mental health conditions or
dealing with mental healthconditions within the
workplace. So it's not justpeople who are coming in from
(18:51):
the voc rehab program or askingfor some accommodations, it's
probably a broader issue intheir workforce. So helping
employers develop some ofthose, those understandings and
see how effective that is andhelping manage workplace
retention work , you know, rereduce these absence. And , and
then I think also justunderstanding how we can
facilitate vocational behaviorchange better. How can we
(19:14):
continue to improve how peoplechange , um, from a vocational
perspective, we have a lot of,a lot of focus right now,
understandably andappropriately on clinical
mental health, clinical rehabcounseling, and how we treat a
specific condition. But I thinkwe talked about integration
into the community andintegration in the workplace.
We need to understand how thatcondition impacts vocational
(19:37):
behavior and how we can workwith the behavior patterns to
change to help people becomebetter situated in a broader
environment.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (19:45):
Yeah.
Also , just to add on thatsome, some emerging areas like
the, the remote work modality.
Um, h how does that impact ,uh, someone's , um, wellbeing
in terms of being at work , uh,conducting the work? Uh ,
because moving everything oreven part of the work remotely
(20:05):
is impacting the social aspectsof the work. And we, we need to
evaluate the impact on eachindividual client, and we, we
need to know how , uh, some mayprefer this way , uh, the
lacking of the social aspect,and that provides certain,
certain level of accommodation,but , um, but this lacking of ,
of social aspects in terms ofremote working may also be ,
(20:28):
um, detrimental to, to somepeople , uh, who , who may need
that social aspect. So , um,that part we need to , uh, know
how to do the evaluation workand how to communicate with
employers as well. Um, and, andthe things like , uh, how to
serve and work with specificpopulations, people with
specific psychiatricconditions. Um, I think that
(20:49):
also , uh, has a lot of roomfor more research and work and
understanding , uh, how do weprovide specific support to
address behavior issues , um,medical aspects , um,
management of the symptoms ,uh, and connecting people with
all these needs with employersand how to communicate with
employers , uh, self-assessment, uh, and such. Um, so these
(21:11):
are all some areas that westill need a lot of research on
, uh, and consistent trainingsfor , uh, practitioners across
the country serving , uh, thispopulation.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (21:23):
Absolutely.
Yeah. It's, it's certainly notone size fits all . Um, I know
I came across a webinar, itwasn't within the re
rehabilitation counselingprofession, but I think it was
an HR webinar and it was aboutmanaging neurodiversity in the
workplace. And I just, evenfrom the title, I was like,
well, neuro diversity is notjust one mental health
condition or, or a diagnosablething, it's, it , it involves a
(21:45):
lot of different things thatwould need specific
considerations for being ableto support an employee , um, in
the way that they need to besupported. And I think it's,
it's like you said, it's veryimportant to continue
researching all of the specificconsiderations , um, that are
needed to be able to fullysupport employees. And , uh,
Dr. Stressor , you said, youknow, employers aren't always
(22:05):
really equipped for those sortsof things. Um, I know we're
developing some toolkits atCRCC to try to go out and talk
to, to employers and say, theseare things that you , you need
to be equipped to handle , uh,for your employees. Not only
because you know of laws thatstate, you have to be able to
accommodate these things, butalso if you want to be able to
attract talent, you want tomake sure that you are
(22:27):
supporting your employees inthe ways that they, they need
to be supported. And , um,obviously our, our position is
we'd love a, a certifiedrehabilitation counselor in
every single, major businessand, and company in the world.
And , uh, you'd have someone onstaff, but yeah. How do you
maybe partner with folks inyour community who offer these
services in private practiceor, or , um, some something of
that sort to be able tounderstand these things more
(22:49):
deeply because you work whenthey're not working with
someone who is fully equipped,like a rehabilitation counselor
is to navigate these things,stuff falls through the cracks
and unfortunately, employees gowithout certain , uh, support
or services or accommodationsthat are very vital to their
ability to succeed and feel,you know, like they are well
supported within a workenvironment.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
I think, again , you hit right on the head there on
what the importance of a rehabcounselor is versus a mental
health counselor is, is rehabcounselors are uniquely
equipped to deal with thesethings within the work
environment. It's unfortunatethat 20, 30 years ago, 35, 40
years ago, these were areasthat were emerging. When we
look at work from, likesomebody like Rochelle Beck ,
um, with disability management,some of these things going on,
(23:33):
these were evolving things thatjust kind of become,
unfortunately just kind ofstagnant and not continue to
evolve. And there's reallyneeds there. And I don't think
we're, as a field are helpingidentify employers identify the
needs that they have and howimportant it is to have a
trained professional there whounderstands that integration
(23:55):
work component to help maximizetheir productivity as a
company. You know, we, we, weneed, we need those types of
professionals. And again, Iwould say rehab counselors can
be uniquely equipped whentrained in , in a, in a good
way to be able to , to dealwith those things.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (24:11):
Yeah, being able to see things from both
the client perspective and alsothe employer perspective. You
know, they're there to serveeveryone involved to make sure
that , um, everybody's feelingsupported and, and connected in
a way where everyone's going toget the outcomes that they're
looking to achieve. And I thinkthat that's a , a , a huge
reason why we need to get theword out there even more about
how vital it is to have thesepeople , um, as a part of your,
(24:34):
as a part of your team. Onepath regarding disability and
work that presents uniqueconsiderations is the
experience of acquiring adisability through injury or
another factor when it comes tothe intersection of mental
health and work. What role can, uh, vocational rehabilitation
professionals uniquely play insupporting an individual who
may be experiencing disabilitygrief?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (24:55):
Um, I , I think , uh, we as , uh,
vocational rehabilitationcounselors or professionals ,
uh, we, we can definitely helpfacilitate the process of grief
, uh, whether it's related tothe onset of , uh, the
disability or like you said, aninjury that had happened , um,
or , or the subsequentadaptation process or, or both.
(25:18):
Uh , it's very complicated, but, uh, uh, people have the
misconception of we, we need to, uh, go through , uh, very
extensive trainings onproviding , uh, grief support.
I think , uh, it's differentfrom , uh, providing grief
counseling, which will be amental health rim capacity. Uh,
some may be able to with the ,uh, appropriate training, but
(25:42):
us as vocational rehabilitationprofessionals, we are equipped
, uh, and we should be , uh,providing grief support. Uh,
while we're providing serviceand working individuals with
disabilities , uh, we can helpfacilitate the process , uh,
understand , um, the onsetprocess , uh, understand each
(26:02):
individual's , uh, adaptationprocess. And we also need to be
very mindful that not everyone, uh, who acquired a
disability, they wouldexperience disability grief .
Uh, i, I would say it's aperceived loss , uh, I would
use that term , uh, 'cause eachindividual's , um, coping
mechanism is different. Uh, andalso we need to understand that
(26:25):
each individual grieves difdifferently, and it's not a , a
one time , uh, thing thathappened . And it , it can
expand at a different phase ofpeople's adaptation process.
Uh, and this is not a newconcept. I, I view this as part
of the psychosocial adaptationprocess. Uh, Dr. Hanock Liv's
psychosocial adaptation model.
(26:46):
We adapted from grief model ,um, and we already have the
early on , uh, theories andmodels to help us understand
this phenomenon. Um, our rolereally is to , uh, first to
validate their grief , uh, notto pathologize it, which is
probably a little bit differentfrom , uh, mental health or UHS
(27:07):
psychiatry. Um, and , uh, butwe view grief as part of the,
the natural responses , uh, tolife events, not necessarily
death related. Um, and , uh,validate their each individual
adaptation process. Some peoplemay take longer in , in the
hospital accepting the realityof , like , I , I got a spinal
(27:28):
cord injury. Uh, some peoplemay take longer transition from
home, from hospital to home. Uh, a whole different lifestyle
has changed. Um, and it alsodepends on when , uh, was the
onset of the disability. Um, Idid my dissertation
interviewing , uh, people withacquired disability. And , uh,
I've heard stories about , uh,feeling more intense disability
(27:52):
grief later in their life , um,when their peers are about to
retire, celebrating theirretirement. Uh, there's success
of, of employment and, and work, uh, a milestone or , uh,
friends getting married, havingkids, having grandkids. And at
those moments, at those lifestages , uh, because maybe not
(28:13):
just the onset of disability orhaving a disability, but , uh,
people may grieve , uh, andthink about the whole from just
a life perspective. Um, so ,uh, everyone is different.
It's, it's important tofacilitate that process again.
Um, and , uh, it , it doesn'tmean that we, when once they,
(28:34):
they tell us that , um, they'reexperiencing disability grief,
and they perceive , uh, theloss of the functionality as
something that , uh, thatthey're still adapting to in
their life. It doesn't meanthat we have to refer 'em to a
psychologist or , uh, it is a ,uh, flag for mental health
issues, but it's more so as ,uh, of telling you their life
(28:57):
story and validating , uh,where they're right now. I
think it's pretty effective of, in terms of establishing the
report between you as apractitioner and , um, clients.
Um, and , uh, I always advocatefor some more reef education be
included in our trainingcurriculum , uh, including
those classic , uh, more thancontemporary models so that we
(29:21):
understand grief from just ahuman natural responses
perspective. Instead of , uh, Ithink some of us had to take ,
uh, path , um, pathology , uh,uh, psychopathology class and
knowing the DSM diagnosis , uh,I think that's, that's not the
emphasis of us understandinggrief and the theories behind
it , uh, but more so , uh, weview it as part of the
(29:44):
adaptation process. And , uh,and also just a whole society.
I, I always advocate thatthere's a , the need to view
grief differently , uh, justmore from a non-pathological
perspective so that it iseasier for us to talk about
grief , uh, to help usfacilitate that process. And
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (30:02):
Yeah, it was a concept that was new to
me when I was researching tocome up with some questions to
talk with you both about. And ,um, as I was encountering your
dissertation and, and readingabout that, it really struck me
, um, as somebody who, youknow, my father , uh, received
an aphasia diagnosis in 2021and , um, had to leave the
workforce and hearing him talkabout some of the things he was
(30:23):
feeling about that , um,particularly a frustration that
from most of his perspective,he felt like he should still be
able to work mm-hmm
something he was, he was acorporate accountant, so it was
something that was becomingvery difficult for him. And
hearing him talk through that alittle bit, and then reading
some of this , uh, work ondisability grief, I was like,
that's an entire process. Um,as you mentioned, that isn't
(30:47):
the same for every person, andnot everyone might go through
it at all or to the same , uh,extent, but it was something
that really struck me as you'rehaving to take a perceived
reality and a and , and alifestyle and , and things like
that. And now shift them in thewake of new limitations that
you're experiencing. And , um,of course that has mental
health , uh, impacts and , and, and yeah . And , uh,
(31:10):
reactions that you feel. And Ithink it's important to be able
to navigate those things with aprofessional, but it doesn't
have to necessarily just be amental health professional,
particularly as you're beingable to balance things like
mental health and your abilityto work or , uh, your ability
to potentially return to workwith some , uh, alterations or
accommodations. And , um,again, that's kind of where
(31:31):
rehabilitation counseling is avery specific field , um, that
has a unique , um, expertise indealing with a situation like
this.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (31:39):
Yeah.
Yeah . Thank you for sharingthe story , uh, of your father.
And, and I think underdisability grief , uh, we work
with people who, a lot of 'emhave experience of
unemployment. So job loss griefis another , uh, specific
phenomenon that we probablyencounter more often than other
professionals. Uh , and thatmay involve this previous
(32:00):
discrimination experience , uh,uh, previous talk , toxic work
environment. Uh , again, justgoing back to what Dr. Strauser
said about understanding thework environment, the work
culture, and how do we do , uh,preventions , uh, when we're
trying to help individuals toget back to work , uh, that's
healthy, that's sustainable.
(32:22):
Uh, and that's helpful for ,uh, just wellbeing.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (32:26):
We know that research regarding mental
health and disability continuesto increase our understanding
of how to best supportindividuals with disabilities
in their goal of achievinggainful fulfilling employment.
What elements of thissymposium's focus are most
severely missing from the waythat we look at employment and
disability? And how can weensure these essential concepts
(32:47):
are integrated more effectivelyinto our communities?
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (32:50):
That there are a lot of areas in, in
this , uh, area, mental healthand work that , uh, needs to be
addressed. We , we need tocontinue to prepare employers.
We've talked about thisrepeatedly , uh, during our
time together so far , um, toassess where they're at in
terms of understandingspecifically mental health ,
um, mental health of theiremployees, just in general
(33:12):
organizational , uh,environment, and how does that
impact , uh, employees mentalhealth. Um, and , um, this will
be addressed , uh, by ourspeakers in different sessions
, uh, in the symposium fromemployers perspective and also
, uh, as rehabilitationprofessionals. Um , but we work
with individuals with differentconditions, mental health,
(33:35):
psychiatric conditions, and weneed to be equipped with
teaching client withself-management skills. Um, and
, um, we're all trainingdifferent levels of medical
aspects of different healthconditions. But I think what's
lacking is we're not carryingthis knowledge over , uh, to
our clients. 'cause there aredoctors , uh, MD doctors , uh,
(33:58):
who are doing , uh, of coursethat's their focus. Um, and ,
uh, there is not a very , uh,specific requirement , uh, in
most places that this issomething that , uh, as part of
our job of providing some very, uh, even just basic but uh,
uh, helpful self-managementskills or recommendations , uh,
(34:21):
or resource even. Um, so , uh,this is something that will be
addressed in at least one ofour sessions. Um, and we also
need to understand how toefficiently support our client
to not just get a job, butsustain a job That includes
assessing work environment,communication with employers,
(34:42):
understanding the rights as anemployee, understanding , uh,
accommodation needs , um, andself-assessment skills. Uh, so
, uh, very importantly, ourclients come to us. We need to
have a , a non-pathologicalapproach because giving a
diagnosis is not our focus. Weunderstand diagnosis, we
(35:04):
understand what that involvesand the behavior indications.
Um, but we have a more holisticunderstanding of the person as
a whole, including theirsocial, cultural ,
environmental context, whichwill be addressed by the
Illinois work and wellbeingmodel. Um, and we also need to
, um, stick with our strengthsbased approach and maybe even ,
(35:27):
even broaden it , uh, includingnormalizing people's
experience. Um, like grief. Um, people typically would view
grief as a negative , uh,coping mechanism, but I think
it, it is, we , we need tochange that perspective. It is
a normal human , uh, experiencejust through our, our lens of
(35:49):
work and promoting a more , uh,preventative based , proactive
approach. Um, I think involvingemployers , uh, uh, educating
our clients and providing , um,hands-on skills and tools to
our attendees. Those are someof the themes I think are
(36:10):
missing or it's not beingaddressed enough in this field.
And it , it's gonna be providedthrough our symposium
Speaker 3 (36:18):
Pick up on something that Jelle said in her , in her
response. And that is theIllinois model is a really good
model to conceptualize themultidimensional nature of the
individual, themultidimensional nature of the
outcomes that we're looking forin . And the symposium will
give people a hands-on , um,template to use to be able to
(36:39):
conceptualize that both forclinical , uh, vocational
counseling interventions, alsowage loss and different things
like that. So it becomes a , amodel that is, has some
flexibility to, it gives aframework for VR counselors,
conceptualizing the individualas a whole, that from a
holistic perspective.
Dr. Xiaolei Tang, CRC (37:00):
J just as a reminder , uh, this , uh,
upcoming , um, IR r Symposiumand Mental Health and Work ,
uh, we're gonna havepre-approved , uh, CRCC , uh,
continuing education credits ,um, both general and , uh,
ethics. Um, we're also gonnahave pre-approved social work,
Illinois social work continuingeducation credits , uh, that
(37:22):
can be applied to L-P-C-L-C-P-C, uh, very importantly, we're
gonna have breakfast and lunch.
Very good breakfast and lunch.
Um, and it's gonna be on aFriday. So we really hope to
see you there.
Taylor Bauer, CRCC (37:39):
Thank you to Dr. Tong and Dr. Strauser
for that informational andengaging conversation. In the
show notes, you can find a linkto register for the 2025
I-I-R-E-R symposium on mentalhealth and work taking place on
June 20th at the ChicagoMarriott Schomburg here in
Illinois. If you have anytakeaways or insights on topics
covered in today's episode,email us at contact
(38:01):
us@crccertification.com. Besure to subscribe to Inside
Rehabilitation Counseling onApple Podcasts, Spotify, or
wherever you're listening to ustoday. You can find us on
Facebook and LinkedIn at CRCCert , and our website is crc
certification.com. Until nexttime, I'm CRCC, director of
(38:22):
Communications and Marketing,Taylor Bauer. Thank you for
listening to InsideRehabilitation Counseling.
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