August 8, 2024 • 31 mins
Buildings account for a staggering 40% of global carbon emissions. With mounting regulatory pressures, escalating energy costs, and growing corporate sustainability goals, the demand for greener buildings has never been more urgent.
AI is emerging as a game changer in this space with its ability to deliver precise insights into a building’s performance—enabling businesses to optimize energy consumption, enhance occupant well-being, and reduce their environmental impact.
In this podcast, we explore practical applications of AI, revealing exactly how businesses and building owners can accelerate their sustainability journey and achieve tangible green building objectives.
Join us as we explore these ideas with:
Lauren Long, Vice President of Brand and Marketing, Nantum AI
Maciej Łabuszewski, Onboarding Specialist, Blue Bolt
Christina Cardoza, Editorial Director, insight.tech
Lauren and Maciej answer our questions about:
- 3:25 – The role of buildings in the fight against climate change
- 5:31 – Sustainable building goals for building owners and managers
- 9:20 – Recent smart building technology innovations
- 13:01 – Leveraging AI to create insights and track performance
- 16:15 – Inside a sustainable smart building
- 19:36 – Overcoming challenges of implementation
- 21:37 – Real-world examples and smart building use cases
- 27:26 – Valuable technology partnerships
Related Content
To learn more about sustainable smart buildings, read Mobile Access Control Promotes Sustainable Buildings and From Smart Buildings to Intelligent Ones. For the latest innovations from Nantum AI, follow them on X/Twitter at @nantumai and on LinkedIn. For the latest innovations from Blue Bolt by NTT, follow them on LinkedIn.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
(upbeat music)
- Hello and welcome to insight.tech Talk,
formerly known as IoT Chat,
but with the samehigh-quality conversations
around Internet ofThings, technology trends,
(00:21):
and the latest innovationsyou've come to know and love.
I'm your host, Christina Cardoza,
Editorial Director of insight.tech.
And today I'm joined by two special guests
to talk about this idea ofsmart and sustainable buildings.
But as always, before we get started,
let's get to know our guests.
Lauren from Nantum AI,I'll start with you.
What can you tell us aboutyourself and the company?
- Thank you for having me here today.
(00:42):
It's a pleasure to talk toyou all. So I am Lauren.
I'm the VP of Brand andMarketing at Nantum AI,
formerly known as Prescriptive Data.
We are the creator
of the award-winningplatform called Nantum.
I've been in the CRE spacefor about 15 years now,
mostly working at data-driven companies,
but also on the media side.
(01:03):
And at Nantum AI,
we empower buildings withactionable building insights.
So we focus on saving energy,reducing carbon emissions,
and lowering costs withoutsacrificing any occupant health
or comfort.
And we also help buildingshit their energy targets
through real-time and prescriptive data,
as well as intelligent recommendations.
(01:24):
We're based out of New York.
I'm actually outside of DC.
But that's pretty much us in a nutshell.
- Great.
Looking forward to gettinginto how AI and data insights
is helping move along this idea
of the sustainable buildings.
But before we get there,
I'd like to also introduceMaciejej from Blue Bolt.
What can you tell us aboutyourself and your company?
(01:44):
- Hi, Christina.
Also, thank you for thechance to be here today.
Like you said, my nameis Maciej Labuszewski.
I'm a Customer SuccessSpecialist over at Blue Bolt.
We are a European-based company offering
a versatile tenant experience app
and dedicated self-assembled hardware.
Our system combines contactless access
within a building's commonareas via mobile app;
(02:06):
a reservation panelthat allows for bookings
and tracking of allkey building resources,
such as parking spots,meeting rooms, desks;
and most importantly, for our topic today,
a plethora of both shortand long-term solutions
that help building owners develop
their sustainability strategy.
And as for my role in the company,
(02:28):
it is to cooperate withour principal stakeholders,
so property owners, managers, tenants,
in learning their needs,
which are always uniquefor each type of building,
and leading Blue Bolt'simplementation process
so that our technology canbest address those needs
and translate into tangibleeveryday advantages.
(02:49):
- Absolutely.
And the reason why I wantedto have this conversation
on the podcast today is I feel like 2023,
we had a lot of companies morefocused on sustainability.
They have a lot of corporate goals,
a lot of legislations and regulations
that they have to meet,
as well as this idea of the climate change
to really make more sustainable operations
(03:09):
and transform the waythat they're doing things.
So I wanted to have this conversation
because I heard an astronomicalnumber about the amount
that buildings are actually contributing
to some of these issues that we're having.
So Lauren, I want to startthe conversation there.
If you can talk about, you know,
with this urgent need tomitigate climate change,
what is the role ofbuildings that they play
(03:30):
to solving this problem?
- Yeah, so the built worldis said to be responsible
for 40% of global carbon emissions,
and 28% of that is fromoperational processes.
So everything that it takesto make a building comfortable
and healthy and operate as it should.
So that's something thatwe focus on at Nantum AI,
is bringing togetherall the data from HVAC
(03:52):
and other buildingsystems and integrating it
with other real-time data likeoccupancy or people counting,
as well as third-partydata, including water, gas,
electrical demand, and among others.
So, like, back to yourpoint about that number,
even if we made buildingoperations 50% more efficient
than currently, then thatwould decrease global emissions
(04:15):
by 14% alone, and that'sa pretty sizable impact.
And since, today, 90% of ourlives are inside buildings
and climate change can radicalizeweather for the future,
we're likely going to spend more time
in buildings in the future.
So buildings have a unique responsibility
(04:37):
to create these healthy andcomfortable environments
for us, today and tomorrow,and it's going to evolve.
Like, the needs for
how those buildings makethese environments comfortable
is going to change as theoutside environment changes too.
So while buildings aredefinitely part of the problem,
they also have a unique abilityto be part of the solution
(04:57):
and kind of be a rolemodel for other industries.
- Yeah, that's greatand especially a problem
that we want to start tackling now.
That everybody that'sbeen working from home,
but there's a push to getback into the offices,
so a lot more people are goingto be occupying these buildings.
So definitely a prioritythat we need to focus on now.
And when we think about these buildings,
(05:17):
it's not just the buildings themselves.
These are large buildings,
and there's multiple different businesses
within those buildings.
There's the building owners,
there's, you know, managers of business,
there's the business owners.
So Maciej, I'm curious,from your perspective,
because you do a lotaround the building owners
and the managers there,
what are their goals whenit comes to sustainability?
And what do they need to be focused on
(05:38):
to really make a dent inthese, you know, efforts?
- So undeniably, in recent years,
a lot has been done in the areas
such as recyclable construction materials
and streamlining building processes
to improve the real estate market.
But at the same time,
there has been a shift inthe focus when discussing
(05:58):
how a building can notonly be built sustainably,
but also exploited in thismanner throughout its lifetime.
And we have to remember that with more
and more aging properties accumulating
on the market with each year
and tenant expectationscontinuing to rise,
achieving this net-zero goal
and decreasing the carbonand plastic footprint
(06:19):
is an absolute necessity
to extend the lifetime of buildings
that will simply beconsidered obsolete very soon.
And this is also activelysignaled by the tenants,
who are prioritizingenvironmentally conscious brands
over those who put theenvironmental strategy aside.
So in practice, there are two vectors
(06:40):
that building owners sort of focus on.
The first is to reduceinefficiencies arising
from the use of old systemsand incorrect assumptions
on the patterns of heating, light,
air conditioning, all basicresources such as those.
But the incorrectassumptions also often stem
from a lack of data.
This data could help identify targets,
(07:02):
set performance indicators,pinpoint unnecessary costs.
But when it is not available,
it becomes essentially impossibleto formulate a strategy,
let alone implement it successfully.
And the second vector is theattempt to engage tenants
in changing their own consumption patterns
(07:23):
and launching incentives sort of
from the bottom up for the creation
of an environmentally responsiblecommunity in the building.
However, in a buildingwith many diverse tenants,
of course, this is a very difficult task
since it requiresappropriate communications,
appropriate rewards, and, of course,
(07:43):
the time for it to come into effect.
So Blue Bolt addresses these issues
by considering sustainabilityfactors as integral
to every capability thatwe provide to a building.
No matter how extensive thelevel of implementation is,
the client can always enjoy the benefits
of a more sustainable building.
(08:04):
For example, switching from plastic cards
and remote controls,
which are the classicaccess control tools,
to access fully stored on a mobile phone.
It's an important stepto becoming plastic-free
in the building.
And in a big office building,
this plastic consumption juston access cards can amount
to almost 200 kilos per year.
(08:29):
Another example is the booking history
on our resource booking panel,
which can be viewed and analyzedby building administration
to make adjustments in real time
and sort of adjust the availability
of other resources as well.
- So it sounds like notonly do these buildings have
(08:49):
to be sustainable, butthey also have to be smart,
which I talked about inthe introduction here.
And, you know, a couplethings come to mind,
because you mentionedusing a mobile phone.
I assume that the building needs
to have adequate network services
in order for people to usetheir mobile phone for access.
And then the resource booking,
that involves some softwareand some technology to process
(09:12):
to be able to give accurate results
and, you know, get all thatdata and see those bookings.
So Maciej, I'm curious, becausethings are always changing,
what have been the recenttechnological innovations
that are making all of these things
that we just talked about possible?
And then with those innovations,
what is the expectation not only
from the building owners,
(09:32):
but from the employees and the consumers
to bring some of these into the building?
- So I think here,
it's important to startoff by stating clearly
that just having a building app
is not a game changer anymoreon the property market.
A few years ago, this marketwas only just realizing
(09:52):
the potential of introducingPropTech solutions
to the common areas of a building,
instead mostly choosing tofocus on the smart home apps.
Now the market has become quitesaturated with the former.
But many of those mobilesolutions only deliver
functionalities that are tailored
to certain, very narrow, isolated problems
(10:14):
and target very specificproperty portfolios,
and therefore, they simplylack the scope and scale
to accommodate the needs of the owner,
the administration, thetenants, all the end users,
the actual people whoreside in the building.
And because of that,
building managers nowhave their sights set
on all the complex solutions,
the ones that can delivermeasurable results
(10:37):
and ones that have universal capabilities
across the entire portfolio.
So something they value a lot
is a product that ensuresuniform ESG, guest management,
and the resource aspectat a similar standard
or the same standard in all locations,
where users have the same interface
(10:59):
that is easily navigable,
that doesn't require a lot of time
to switch from all thosetraditional methods
that I mentioned earlier.
So the cards and remote controls.
And a strong focus is alsoplaced on the cost effectiveness
of the solution and rapid implementation
so that the results canbe felt immediately.
(11:19):
And this is somethingthat Blue Bolt excels in,
because our system employs hardware
with excellent flexibilityand adaptability
that allows us to install essentially
on any building anddeploy the entire system
within a few days.
So the ability to integrate
with all the various access control,
(11:40):
parking, elevator systems,
in addition to sensors installedin the building itself,
all this can be completedwithin just days,
no matter how old the building is,
which ties to my previouspoint about this pile
of aging property that keeps accumulating.
So the system is deployable
(12:02):
whether in residential, office,
logistical, commercial properties.
This makes no difference for us,
and it's this universality that truly led
to our success so far.
- Yeah, that's a great point
that you make about older buildings,
because, of course, newerbuildings have the advantage
of being able to implement all
of this technology in the beginning.
But it's good to know
(12:23):
that we can utilize someexisting infrastructure
and we can still make someof these things happen
in the existing buildings andolder buildings that we have,
which are part of the problem.
You mentioned there's also beena problem with lack of data
that has made business owners struggle
to make some of these things happen.
But all of these thingswe're talking about,
as these things come online,
(12:43):
I think we have then theproblem of too much data
or what to do with that data.
How do we really see thoseconsumption patterns?
How do we get insight?
How do we derive value
that is going to make us beable to have actionable insight
and actionable decision making?
So Lauren, I'm curious,
because since you doa lot of work with AI,
how AI can help create these insights,
(13:04):
show us how the building is performing,
and then make, you know, efforts there?
- Yeah, so AI is definitely a tool
to help us reach our goals using
the different types of data.
Using artificial intelligenceand machine learning,
you can consolidate datainto a unified user interface
and then dig into that data tofind patterns, correlations,
(13:25):
or causational relationships
between different types of data.
And it takes a lot less time than it would
for a human to do so.
And like you said, like,there's so much data,
so it's almost impossible totry to keep tabs on everything
as a human.
You would need an entire team to do that.
And there's still, youknow, the human element
or error that can happen there.
So when AI does thison a repeatable basis,
(13:49):
AI is the only way to make it scalable.
But where we are in the industry using all
of this information is really unique.
So I often recommend thebook "Crossing the Chasm"
by Geoffrey Moore.
And I normally do that froma marketing perspective,
but the building space is ina really similar situation.
So you could say we need tocross the engineering chasm.
(14:12):
So let me build it in,like, the situation for you.
So in building operations,
there are sustainability managers,
and they're the goal setters of the group.
They collaborate to setgoals, find solutions,
and track progress aroundbuilding sustainability.
But there's also the asset managers
who are the cost optimizers.
(14:34):
They analyze, invest in,and manage real estate
for long-term value and sustainability.
But then there's the third group.
And these are the building operators
who are the change makers.
So they maintain efficient operations
and optimize buildingperformance for sustainability.
So the chasm I talked about
is between the first two groupsand the building operators,
(14:57):
where there isn't anyreal-time performance data.
So why am I talking about all this?
Because AI has ability tocreate real-time accountability.
And that's something Nantum AI does
with our daily AIengineering recommendations
and also our compliance analysis,
where we're able to assessthe number of recommendations
(15:19):
that our system sent to these engineers
and the number that wereactually acted upon,
and then the resulting success of that.
But there's also AI canassist in fault detection,
where you can discover
that the building isn't actually running
to its full savings potential.
So like you said, there's so much data
(15:39):
and there's so much insightsthat you can derive from those,
but without actually using the data,
like, what's the point?
So using AI to make it actionable insights
is really important.
- I love how you describedthe building owners
or the building operatorsas the change makers,
because I think that's very powerful.
They are the ones that have the ability
(16:00):
to make these changes.
And I think not only in addition
to all of the data beingoverwhelming, all the changes
that they can make area little overwhelming,
and they might not know where to start.
We're talking about heating,lighting, occupancy,
mobile networks, all ofthese different things.
So I'm curious, Lauren, ifyou can talk a little bit more
about what a sustainablebuilding actually looks like.
(16:20):
What are the things thatthey should be focused on?
And, you know, is there one thing
that they should start and then grow,
or is it happening everything at once?
Can you talk a little bit more about that?
- Yeah, sure.
So there's a saying thateveryone uses that says,
you know, every building is a snowflake.
And that phrase is usedso much that it's, like,
no longer a snowflake.
You know, it's very common.
(16:41):
But every building isdifferent from construction,
including when it was built,
the style it was made in,materials that were used,
the climate it's in.
So it's hard to say that there,
I mean, there is no one answer to, like,
what sustainability lookslike for a building.
But to that point, like,
all sustainable buildings doshare common characteristics,
(17:02):
and many of those revolve around intent.
So you want to avoid waste,
so you turn off lights in empty rooms,
which is super easy to do
with sensor integration these days.
You use low-flush toilets,well seal your windows,
use revolving doors, the outside.
You know, there's many things
that you can do on that sort of a level.
(17:23):
But if you take it a step further
and think about the technology aspects,
that's how you reallymake a building smarter
and more sustainable.
So sustainable buildings use technology.
And they're smarter thanthe average building
because of the data they're collecting
and hopefully acting on.
You can't improve without a baseline,
so it's important to understandwhat's happening today
(17:46):
and make an improvement planso that you can become better.
And that's the only way to do it.
This extends to space utilization
and making spaces more comfortable
and ready to supportproductivity for occupants.
But I also want to talkabout a report from Deloitte
that came out this year called
the 2024 Real Estate Outlook Survey.
In the report, they say that only 5%
(18:08):
of buildings are fully modernized,
which mean they have coresystems that are easy
to incorporate emergingdigital technologies.
So that's only 5% of all buildings,
which doesn't help us really address
that 40% number of carbon emissions
that we're trying to go after.
However, the report also says
that 34% are mostly convertedto these modernized systems,
(18:31):
and 30% are currentlytransitioning from legacy models.
So as these buildings continue
to move towards modernization,
the 5% will become more like a 40%,
and building sustainabilitytargets will be easier to hit.
So as these sensors feedinto the building systems
and give operators more data, you know,
(18:53):
change can actually happen.
- Yeah, that's great.
It sounds like there are a lot of things
that building owners andoperators can be doing,
and a lot of technology or sensors
that they can be adding,
to be making a dent insome of these goals.
But one thing I wantto talk about, Maciej,
and I'll point this question to you,
is I know a lot of businesses
(19:14):
when they are adopting a new technology,
or they're working witha partner or company,
there's that fear thatthey're going to have
that vendor lock-in,
or that they're not going to be able
to future proof their investments.
They want to make sure thatthey can continue to scale,
continue to innovate.
Because I think, you know,even if you just look at AI,
the world is changing everyday, every week, every year,
so we want to make surewe can stay on top of it.
(19:35):
So what would you recommendfor building owners?
How can they avoid someof those challenges
or issues that they have
and make sure that theycan scale in the future?
- Some of the fears,
the main fears that building owners face
when it comes to making this big decision,
whether we should invest,innovate, try a new product,
(19:56):
it's a fear of the changebringing more chaos
into the process than thebenefits that carries with it.
And that pertains toboth the process itself
and the product that's being evaluated.
And within the business environment
that Blue Bolt revolves in,
we most often notice thisdependency on existing technology
(20:21):
in terms of access control systems.
Many property owners are absolutely aware,
they are fully conscious,
that their existing systems do not offer
a satisfactory level of user experience,
but they believe that changing
to another system will besynonymous with installation works
(20:41):
that drag on forever,create problems for tenants,
and in the end, do notcontribute in any way directly
to improving the sustainabilitymetrics of a building.
So when they encounter Blue Bolt,
they're quite often surprisedthat a superior level
of comfort and security is available
with so little effort and, importantly,
(21:06):
on average, with 60% lower costs,
which is very importantto those asset managers
or building owners who areworking on tight budgets.
Additionally, there's also a question
of the wiring and cabling
that the hardware requires,
which is minimal in our case.
(21:27):
Whereas with some of ourtraditional competitors,
this process can literallylast for several months.
- So do you have any customerexamples that you can share
with us of how Blue Bolt came in,
how you guys were able tostreamline those changes?
You know, put them on a path to innovation
(21:48):
and really help existing buildbuilding owners make changes.
- Mm-hmm.
Actually, one of our very first clients
is a coworking space brand
and the owner of commercial real estate,
with offices located in five countries.
So at first,
(22:08):
they decided to launch Blue Bolt
in just one out of sevenlocations here in Warsaw, Poland.
But the ease of access
and the modernity that asimple building app brought
to the entire buildingmade them actually extend
the cooperation first ontoall buildings in Poland,
(22:32):
and then allowing us to expand
into the other fourcountries where they exist.
Some of the features thatreally caught their attention
and that proved really successful
was switching off elevatorsduring off-peak hours.
This is actually something that's helped
(22:53):
by our AI system that aggregates the data
from both the building's access control
and the elevator systems
and combines it into easilynavigable information
that can be viewed by property owners
and asset managers,
straight from their phoneor from their computer.
And this is what guarantees
(23:15):
that we are not just another gadget,
but a tool that helpsmake informed decisions
on a daily basis.
And another example that I would give
is one of the largest property holdings
in Central Eastern Europe,
with a portfolio of almost20 buildings in Poland alone,
(23:36):
who wanted to solve several key problems,
one of them being theneed for building guests
to drive around the buildingand find a parking spot
because they couldn't accessthe underground garage.
So with our data analytics,
we were able to learn the,
first of all, to provide access
(23:57):
through the mobile accesspart of our solution,
and then learn from thepatterns of occupancy.
When a certain amount ofspaces should be left free,
how the building managementcan optimize their processes.
And furthermore, by orderingtheir integration of Blue Bolt
with their externalsensors within the offices,
(24:19):
the client was always up to date
with data on reducing wastage,
the factors I mentioned before.
So lighting, heating, airconditioning, HVAC, and so on.
- Those are a greatexample of how businesses
and building owners,they can make changes.
Change doesn't have to be hard.
(24:40):
If you partner with the rightpartner, like Blue Bolt,
they can help you implementsome of these things
and make it a lot smoother.
So since you got to talkabout your sweet spot,
I want to hear aboutNantum AI's sweet spot.
If you guys have any customer examples
or use cases that you can provide,
how you helped, where you came in,
and where really Nantum AI works best.
(25:00):
- Sure.
So one of our favorite focal points is
to help companies meet theirenergy conservation measures,
or widely known as ECMs.
So one of our customersis Jamestown Properties,
and they have the Waterfront Plaza
in San Francisco, California.
And they wanted to generatesavings using a smart shutdown,
(25:23):
or smart startup, smart shutdown,
and midday ramps during the day.
So that would be changing thebuilding system's operation
based on real-time occupancy.
And this year they released a report
about the accomplishmentsof using Nantum AI
within their properties,and against a 2019 baseline,
(25:44):
they have saved over $71,000
and almost 285,000 kilowatts of energy.
So, you know, that's really great,
tangible information to haveabout just that small change
of building operationscan make a difference.
And I'd also like
to share the US GeneralServices Administration's,
(26:08):
or GSA's, Green Proving Ground report.
It was done in partnership
with the National Renewable Energy Labs.
And they completed a large pilot study
on energy management information systems
and automated system optimization.
And they call this EMIS and ASO.
The government and acronyms.You know, it's a thing.
(26:31):
But the report concludedthat using these systems,
they can, like Nantum AI,
they can result in 5 to11% whole building savings,
which is pretty significant.
And that by automating
the government's real estate operations,
they could save the federalgovernment $28.7 million
(26:52):
in energy costs a year,
while also significantlyreducing carbon emissions.
- Yeah, thanks for sharing those numbers.
Because it's one thingjust to talk about it,
but when you actually see the numbers
and the impact that it can have,
it makes it a little bit more powerful
and makes these initiatives
that we're workingtowards something greater.
So I'm curious, though,
(27:12):
because you mentioned that partnership,
but we're talking about alot of different technologies
and sensors and software and hardware
that goes into doing some of these things
and making those use casessuccessful for your customers.
I'm curious, are there anytechnology partnerships
that you guys used tomake some of this happen?
- So we focus mostlyon the software aspect
(27:34):
of what we do today.
And we partner with a lot of companies
who have access toaccurate and precise data.
And the best way to get that is often
through API integration.
And, you know, the better data in,
the better data out, right?
So there's definitely thatcomponent of our partnerships,
but we also rely heavily on hardware.
(27:55):
At Nantum AI,
I believe that every buildingcould become a smart building.
And we have found thatbuildings that are powered
by Intel chips have the mostcapacity to become smart.
So all of our buildingsoperate on an Intel Gateway,
and this combination kind
of makes us a perfect partner with Intel.
So our goal is to become thesmarter building provider
(28:17):
for every building in the world,
which is made possibleand powered by Intel.
- Yeah, that's great to hear.
Obviously, insight.techand the insight.tech Talk,
we are sponsored by Intel.
But I think what's greatabout using Intel chips,
and even they have the AI toolkits,
is that they're always updating
based on the innovations and the trends
(28:37):
that they see are happening.
So we talked about vendor lock-in,
we talked about being able to scale
and being able to innovate.
They're making sure thatthat's all happening.
So it's great to see that youguys are partnering with them.
We are running out of time.
I know we could probablytalk about this space
for another hour or so.
We've only scratched the surface.
But, you know, before we go,
(28:58):
I want to throw it backto each of you guys,
if there's any finalthoughts or final takeaways
that you want to leave our listeners with.
This is such a big topic,
so if there's anything that you think
that they should get outof this conversation,
or that they should start doingto make some of these goals.
Maciej, I'll start with you.
- So we've been talking about technology,
but something very important to mention
in context of this entirewide topic of sustainability
(29:22):
and attaining net-zero goalsis that it must be used
to also unite people over a common goal.
At points where we aretalking about something
that isn't just a business decision,
but also an ethical decision
and a decision that mayimpact the collective future.
(29:45):
Delivering the solutionsthat we are working on here
in Blue Bolt, it's not justa business model to realize,
but also a higher conceptthat is good to have in mind
when thinking about theneeds of our stakeholders,
when thinking aboutthe needs of our users,
and the way we can maximizethe collective goodness,
(30:07):
I suppose, if you can call it that,
of our solution and thechange that it brings
into the world.
- Great. Anything from you, Lauren?
- I completely agreewith what you just said.
And it's this urgency in creating
and maintaining sustainable buildings
has never been stronger.
Like, climate is not improving,
(30:27):
and we really need to worktogether to eliminate data silos
and challenges acrossdifferent departments,
but we also need to implementthe technology we have
and realize what technology we need
so that we're able to hit our goals.
AI is a huge tool
and a huge asset that wecan have in our toolbox,
and it can make reaching
(30:48):
our global decarbonization goals possible.
- Well, I just want tothank you both again
for joining the podcast.
It's been a great conversation seeing
how data can really help makebuildings more sustainable
and smarter.
It's not just aboutturning off the lights.
You need access to data, you need AI
so you can get some of these insights,
you can uncover some of these patterns,
(31:08):
and start making changes today,
you know, to better tomorrow.
So this has been a great conversation.
Thank you guys again.
I invite all of our listeners,
please go to the Nantum AIand the Blue Bolt websites
to see how they can help youstart making some changes
and start reaching your goals.
As well as follow us on insight.tech.
We'll continue to cover these partners,
as well as other partners in this space,
(31:30):
keep you up to date of all the latest
and greatest happening.
So until next time, this hasbeen "insight.tech Talk."
(upbeat music)
(upbeat music)
- Hello and welcome to insight.tech Talk,
formerly known as IoT Chat,
but with the samehigh-quality conversations
around Internet ofThings, technology trends,
(00:21):
and the latest innovationsyou've come to know and love.
I'm your host, Christina Cardoza,
Editorial Director of insight.tech.
And today I'm joined by two special guests
to talk about this idea ofsmart and sustainable buildings.
But as always, before we get started,
let's get to know our guests.
Lauren from Nantum AI,I'll start with you.
What can you tell us aboutyourself and the company?
- Thank you for having me here today.
(00:42):
It's a pleasure to talk toyou all. So I am Lauren.
I'm the VP of Brand andMarketing at Nantum AI,
formerly known as Prescriptive Data.
We are the creator
of the award-winningplatform called Nantum.
I've been in the CRE spacefor about 15 years now,
mostly working at data-driven companies,
but also on the media side.
(01:03):
And at Nantum AI,
we empower buildings withactionable building insights.
So we focus on saving energy,reducing carbon emissions,
and lowering costs withoutsacrificing any occupant health
or comfort.
And we also help buildingshit their energy targets
through real-time and prescriptive data,
as well as intelligent recommendations.
(01:24):
We're based out of New York.
I'm actually outside of DC.
But that's pretty much us in a nutshell.
- Great.
Looking forward to gettinginto how AI and data insights
is helping move along this idea
of the sustainable buildings.
But before we get there,
I'd like to also introduceMaciejej from Blue Bolt.
What can you tell us aboutyourself and your company?
(01:44):
- Hi, Christina.
Also, thank you for thechance to be here today.
Like you said, my nameis Maciej Labuszewski.
I'm a Customer SuccessSpecialist over at Blue Bolt.
We are a European-based company offering
a versatile tenant experience app
and dedicated self-assembled hardware.
Our system combines contactless access
within a building's commonareas via mobile app;
(02:06):
a reservation panelthat allows for bookings
and tracking of allkey building resources,
such as parking spots,meeting rooms, desks;
and most importantly, for our topic today,
a plethora of both shortand long-term solutions
that help building owners develop
their sustainability strategy.
And as for my role in the company,
(02:28):
it is to cooperate withour principal stakeholders,
so property owners, managers, tenants,
in learning their needs,
which are always uniquefor each type of building,
and leading Blue Bolt'simplementation process
so that our technology canbest address those needs
and translate into tangibleeveryday advantages.
(02:49):
- Absolutely.
And the reason why I wantedto have this conversation
on the podcast today is I feel like 2023,
we had a lot of companies morefocused on sustainability.
They have a lot of corporate goals,
a lot of legislations and regulations
that they have to meet,
as well as this idea of the climate change
to really make more sustainable operations
(03:09):
and transform the waythat they're doing things.
So I wanted to have this conversation
because I heard an astronomicalnumber about the amount
that buildings are actually contributing
to some of these issues that we're having.
So Lauren, I want to startthe conversation there.
If you can talk about, you know,
with this urgent need tomitigate climate change,
what is the role ofbuildings that they play
(03:30):
to solving this problem?
- Yeah, so the built worldis said to be responsible
for 40% of global carbon emissions,
and 28% of that is fromoperational processes.
So everything that it takesto make a building comfortable
and healthy and operate as it should.
So that's something thatwe focus on at Nantum AI,
is bringing togetherall the data from HVAC
(03:52):
and other buildingsystems and integrating it
with other real-time data likeoccupancy or people counting,
as well as third-partydata, including water, gas,
electrical demand, and among others.
So, like, back to yourpoint about that number,
even if we made buildingoperations 50% more efficient
than currently, then thatwould decrease global emissions
(04:15):
by 14% alone, and that'sa pretty sizable impact.
And since, today, 90% of ourlives are inside buildings
and climate change can radicalizeweather for the future,
we're likely going to spend more time
in buildings in the future.
So buildings have a unique responsibility
(04:37):
to create these healthy andcomfortable environments
for us, today and tomorrow,and it's going to evolve.
Like, the needs for
how those buildings makethese environments comfortable
is going to change as theoutside environment changes too.
So while buildings aredefinitely part of the problem,
they also have a unique abilityto be part of the solution
(04:57):
and kind of be a rolemodel for other industries.
- Yeah, that's greatand especially a problem
that we want to start tackling now.
That everybody that'sbeen working from home,
but there's a push to getback into the offices,
so a lot more people are goingto be occupying these buildings.
So definitely a prioritythat we need to focus on now.
And when we think about these buildings,
(05:17):
it's not just the buildings themselves.
These are large buildings,
and there's multiple different businesses
within those buildings.
There's the building owners,
there's, you know, managers of business,
there's the business owners.
So Maciej, I'm curious,from your perspective,
because you do a lotaround the building owners
and the managers there,
what are their goals whenit comes to sustainability?
And what do they need to be focused on
(05:38):
to really make a dent inthese, you know, efforts?
- So undeniably, in recent years,
a lot has been done in the areas
such as recyclable construction materials
and streamlining building processes
to improve the real estate market.
But at the same time,
there has been a shift inthe focus when discussing
(05:58):
how a building can notonly be built sustainably,
but also exploited in thismanner throughout its lifetime.
And we have to remember that with more
and more aging properties accumulating
on the market with each year
and tenant expectationscontinuing to rise,
achieving this net-zero goal
and decreasing the carbonand plastic footprint
(06:19):
is an absolute necessity
to extend the lifetime of buildings
that will simply beconsidered obsolete very soon.
And this is also activelysignaled by the tenants,
who are prioritizingenvironmentally conscious brands
over those who put theenvironmental strategy aside.
So in practice, there are two vectors
(06:40):
that building owners sort of focus on.
The first is to reduceinefficiencies arising
from the use of old systemsand incorrect assumptions
on the patterns of heating, light,
air conditioning, all basicresources such as those.
But the incorrectassumptions also often stem
from a lack of data.
This data could help identify targets,
(07:02):
set performance indicators,pinpoint unnecessary costs.
But when it is not available,
it becomes essentially impossibleto formulate a strategy,
let alone implement it successfully.
And the second vector is theattempt to engage tenants
in changing their own consumption patterns
(07:23):
and launching incentives sort of
from the bottom up for the creation
of an environmentally responsiblecommunity in the building.
However, in a buildingwith many diverse tenants,
of course, this is a very difficult task
since it requiresappropriate communications,
appropriate rewards, and, of course,
(07:43):
the time for it to come into effect.
So Blue Bolt addresses these issues
by considering sustainabilityfactors as integral
to every capability thatwe provide to a building.
No matter how extensive thelevel of implementation is,
the client can always enjoy the benefits
of a more sustainable building.
(08:04):
For example, switching from plastic cards
and remote controls,
which are the classicaccess control tools,
to access fully stored on a mobile phone.
It's an important stepto becoming plastic-free
in the building.
And in a big office building,
this plastic consumption juston access cards can amount
to almost 200 kilos per year.
(08:29):
Another example is the booking history
on our resource booking panel,
which can be viewed and analyzedby building administration
to make adjustments in real time
and sort of adjust the availability
of other resources as well.
- So it sounds like notonly do these buildings have
(08:49):
to be sustainable, butthey also have to be smart,
which I talked about inthe introduction here.
And, you know, a couplethings come to mind,
because you mentionedusing a mobile phone.
I assume that the building needs
to have adequate network services
in order for people to usetheir mobile phone for access.
And then the resource booking,
that involves some softwareand some technology to process
(09:12):
to be able to give accurate results
and, you know, get all thatdata and see those bookings.
So Maciej, I'm curious, becausethings are always changing,
what have been the recenttechnological innovations
that are making all of these things
that we just talked about possible?
And then with those innovations,
what is the expectation not only
from the building owners,
(09:32):
but from the employees and the consumers
to bring some of these into the building?
- So I think here,
it's important to startoff by stating clearly
that just having a building app
is not a game changer anymoreon the property market.
A few years ago, this marketwas only just realizing
(09:52):
the potential of introducingPropTech solutions
to the common areas of a building,
instead mostly choosing tofocus on the smart home apps.
Now the market has become quitesaturated with the former.
But many of those mobilesolutions only deliver
functionalities that are tailored
to certain, very narrow, isolated problems
(10:14):
and target very specificproperty portfolios,
and therefore, they simplylack the scope and scale
to accommodate the needs of the owner,
the administration, thetenants, all the end users,
the actual people whoreside in the building.
And because of that,
building managers nowhave their sights set
on all the complex solutions,
the ones that can delivermeasurable results
(10:37):
and ones that have universal capabilities
across the entire portfolio.
So something they value a lot
is a product that ensuresuniform ESG, guest management,
and the resource aspectat a similar standard
or the same standard in all locations,
where users have the same interface
(10:59):
that is easily navigable,
that doesn't require a lot of time
to switch from all thosetraditional methods
that I mentioned earlier.
So the cards and remote controls.
And a strong focus is alsoplaced on the cost effectiveness
of the solution and rapid implementation
so that the results canbe felt immediately.
(11:19):
And this is somethingthat Blue Bolt excels in,
because our system employs hardware
with excellent flexibilityand adaptability
that allows us to install essentially
on any building anddeploy the entire system
within a few days.
So the ability to integrate
with all the various access control,
(11:40):
parking, elevator systems,
in addition to sensors installedin the building itself,
all this can be completedwithin just days,
no matter how old the building is,
which ties to my previouspoint about this pile
of aging property that keeps accumulating.
So the system is deployable
(12:02):
whether in residential, office,
logistical, commercial properties.
This makes no difference for us,
and it's this universality that truly led
to our success so far.
- Yeah, that's a great point
that you make about older buildings,
because, of course, newerbuildings have the advantage
of being able to implement all
of this technology in the beginning.
But it's good to know
(12:23):
that we can utilize someexisting infrastructure
and we can still make someof these things happen
in the existing buildings andolder buildings that we have,
which are part of the problem.
You mentioned there's also beena problem with lack of data
that has made business owners struggle
to make some of these things happen.
But all of these thingswe're talking about,
as these things come online,
(12:43):
I think we have then theproblem of too much data
or what to do with that data.
How do we really see thoseconsumption patterns?
How do we get insight?
How do we derive value
that is going to make us beable to have actionable insight
and actionable decision making?
So Lauren, I'm curious,
because since you doa lot of work with AI,
how AI can help create these insights,
(13:04):
show us how the building is performing,
and then make, you know, efforts there?
- Yeah, so AI is definitely a tool
to help us reach our goals using
the different types of data.
Using artificial intelligenceand machine learning,
you can consolidate datainto a unified user interface
and then dig into that data tofind patterns, correlations,
(13:25):
or causational relationships
between different types of data.
And it takes a lot less time than it would
for a human to do so.
And like you said, like,there's so much data,
so it's almost impossible totry to keep tabs on everything
as a human.
You would need an entire team to do that.
And there's still, youknow, the human element
or error that can happen there.
So when AI does thison a repeatable basis,
(13:49):
AI is the only way to make it scalable.
But where we are in the industry using all
of this information is really unique.
So I often recommend thebook "Crossing the Chasm"
by Geoffrey Moore.
And I normally do that froma marketing perspective,
but the building space is ina really similar situation.
So you could say we need tocross the engineering chasm.
(14:12):
So let me build it in,like, the situation for you.
So in building operations,
there are sustainability managers,
and they're the goal setters of the group.
They collaborate to setgoals, find solutions,
and track progress aroundbuilding sustainability.
But there's also the asset managers
who are the cost optimizers.
(14:34):
They analyze, invest in,and manage real estate
for long-term value and sustainability.
But then there's the third group.
And these are the building operators
who are the change makers.
So they maintain efficient operations
and optimize buildingperformance for sustainability.
So the chasm I talked about
is between the first two groupsand the building operators,
(14:57):
where there isn't anyreal-time performance data.
So why am I talking about all this?
Because AI has ability tocreate real-time accountability.
And that's something Nantum AI does
with our daily AIengineering recommendations
and also our compliance analysis,
where we're able to assessthe number of recommendations
(15:19):
that our system sent to these engineers
and the number that wereactually acted upon,
and then the resulting success of that.
But there's also AI canassist in fault detection,
where you can discover
that the building isn't actually running
to its full savings potential.
So like you said, there's so much data
(15:39):
and there's so much insightsthat you can derive from those,
but without actually using the data,
like, what's the point?
So using AI to make it actionable insights
is really important.
- I love how you describedthe building owners
or the building operatorsas the change makers,
because I think that's very powerful.
They are the ones that have the ability
(16:00):
to make these changes.
And I think not only in addition
to all of the data beingoverwhelming, all the changes
that they can make area little overwhelming,
and they might not know where to start.
We're talking about heating,lighting, occupancy,
mobile networks, all ofthese different things.
So I'm curious, Lauren, ifyou can talk a little bit more
about what a sustainablebuilding actually looks like.
(16:20):
What are the things thatthey should be focused on?
And, you know, is there one thing
that they should start and then grow,
or is it happening everything at once?
Can you talk a little bit more about that?
- Yeah, sure.
So there's a saying thateveryone uses that says,
you know, every building is a snowflake.
And that phrase is usedso much that it's, like,
no longer a snowflake.
You know, it's very common.
(16:41):
But every building isdifferent from construction,
including when it was built,
the style it was made in,materials that were used,
the climate it's in.
So it's hard to say that there,
I mean, there is no one answer to, like,
what sustainability lookslike for a building.
But to that point, like,
all sustainable buildings doshare common characteristics,
(17:02):
and many of those revolve around intent.
So you want to avoid waste,
so you turn off lights in empty rooms,
which is super easy to do
with sensor integration these days.
You use low-flush toilets,well seal your windows,
use revolving doors, the outside.
You know, there's many things
that you can do on that sort of a level.
(17:23):
But if you take it a step further
and think about the technology aspects,
that's how you reallymake a building smarter
and more sustainable.
So sustainable buildings use technology.
And they're smarter thanthe average building
because of the data they're collecting
and hopefully acting on.
You can't improve without a baseline,
so it's important to understandwhat's happening today
(17:46):
and make an improvement planso that you can become better.
And that's the only way to do it.
This extends to space utilization
and making spaces more comfortable
and ready to supportproductivity for occupants.
But I also want to talkabout a report from Deloitte
that came out this year called
the 2024 Real Estate Outlook Survey.
In the report, they say that only 5%
(18:08):
of buildings are fully modernized,
which mean they have coresystems that are easy
to incorporate emergingdigital technologies.
So that's only 5% of all buildings,
which doesn't help us really address
that 40% number of carbon emissions
that we're trying to go after.
However, the report also says
that 34% are mostly convertedto these modernized systems,
(18:31):
and 30% are currentlytransitioning from legacy models.
So as these buildings continue
to move towards modernization,
the 5% will become more like a 40%,
and building sustainabilitytargets will be easier to hit.
So as these sensors feedinto the building systems
and give operators more data, you know,
(18:53):
change can actually happen.
- Yeah, that's great.
It sounds like there are a lot of things
that building owners andoperators can be doing,
and a lot of technology or sensors
that they can be adding,
to be making a dent insome of these goals.
But one thing I wantto talk about, Maciej,
and I'll point this question to you,
is I know a lot of businesses
(19:14):
when they are adopting a new technology,
or they're working witha partner or company,
there's that fear thatthey're going to have
that vendor lock-in,
or that they're not going to be able
to future proof their investments.
They want to make sure thatthey can continue to scale,
continue to innovate.
Because I think, you know,even if you just look at AI,
the world is changing everyday, every week, every year,
so we want to make surewe can stay on top of it.
(19:35):
So what would you recommendfor building owners?
How can they avoid someof those challenges
or issues that they have
and make sure that theycan scale in the future?
- Some of the fears,
the main fears that building owners face
when it comes to making this big decision,
whether we should invest,innovate, try a new product,
(19:56):
it's a fear of the changebringing more chaos
into the process than thebenefits that carries with it.
And that pertains toboth the process itself
and the product that's being evaluated.
And within the business environment
that Blue Bolt revolves in,
we most often notice thisdependency on existing technology
(20:21):
in terms of access control systems.
Many property owners are absolutely aware,
they are fully conscious,
that their existing systems do not offer
a satisfactory level of user experience,
but they believe that changing
to another system will besynonymous with installation works
(20:41):
that drag on forever,create problems for tenants,
and in the end, do notcontribute in any way directly
to improving the sustainabilitymetrics of a building.
So when they encounter Blue Bolt,
they're quite often surprisedthat a superior level
of comfort and security is available
with so little effort and, importantly,
(21:06):
on average, with 60% lower costs,
which is very importantto those asset managers
or building owners who areworking on tight budgets.
Additionally, there's also a question
of the wiring and cabling
that the hardware requires,
which is minimal in our case.
(21:27):
Whereas with some of ourtraditional competitors,
this process can literallylast for several months.
- So do you have any customerexamples that you can share
with us of how Blue Bolt came in,
how you guys were able tostreamline those changes?
You know, put them on a path to innovation
(21:48):
and really help existing buildbuilding owners make changes.
- Mm-hmm.
Actually, one of our very first clients
is a coworking space brand
and the owner of commercial real estate,
with offices located in five countries.
So at first,
(22:08):
they decided to launch Blue Bolt
in just one out of sevenlocations here in Warsaw, Poland.
But the ease of access
and the modernity that asimple building app brought
to the entire buildingmade them actually extend
the cooperation first ontoall buildings in Poland,
(22:32):
and then allowing us to expand
into the other fourcountries where they exist.
Some of the features thatreally caught their attention
and that proved really successful
was switching off elevatorsduring off-peak hours.
This is actually something that's helped
(22:53):
by our AI system that aggregates the data
from both the building's access control
and the elevator systems
and combines it into easilynavigable information
that can be viewed by property owners
and asset managers,
straight from their phoneor from their computer.
And this is what guarantees
(23:15):
that we are not just another gadget,
but a tool that helpsmake informed decisions
on a daily basis.
And another example that I would give
is one of the largest property holdings
in Central Eastern Europe,
with a portfolio of almost20 buildings in Poland alone,
(23:36):
who wanted to solve several key problems,
one of them being theneed for building guests
to drive around the buildingand find a parking spot
because they couldn't accessthe underground garage.
So with our data analytics,
we were able to learn the,
first of all, to provide access
(23:57):
through the mobile accesspart of our solution,
and then learn from thepatterns of occupancy.
When a certain amount ofspaces should be left free,
how the building managementcan optimize their processes.
And furthermore, by orderingtheir integration of Blue Bolt
with their externalsensors within the offices,
(24:19):
the client was always up to date
with data on reducing wastage,
the factors I mentioned before.
So lighting, heating, airconditioning, HVAC, and so on.
- Those are a greatexample of how businesses
and building owners,they can make changes.
Change doesn't have to be hard.
(24:40):
If you partner with the rightpartner, like Blue Bolt,
they can help you implementsome of these things
and make it a lot smoother.
So since you got to talkabout your sweet spot,
I want to hear aboutNantum AI's sweet spot.
If you guys have any customer examples
or use cases that you can provide,
how you helped, where you came in,
and where really Nantum AI works best.
(25:00):
- Sure.
So one of our favorite focal points is
to help companies meet theirenergy conservation measures,
or widely known as ECMs.
So one of our customersis Jamestown Properties,
and they have the Waterfront Plaza
in San Francisco, California.
And they wanted to generatesavings using a smart shutdown,
(25:23):
or smart startup, smart shutdown,
and midday ramps during the day.
So that would be changing thebuilding system's operation
based on real-time occupancy.
And this year they released a report
about the accomplishmentsof using Nantum AI
within their properties,and against a 2019 baseline,
(25:44):
they have saved over $71,000
and almost 285,000 kilowatts of energy.
So, you know, that's really great,
tangible information to haveabout just that small change
of building operationscan make a difference.
And I'd also like
to share the US GeneralServices Administration's,
(26:08):
or GSA's, Green Proving Ground report.
It was done in partnership
with the National Renewable Energy Labs.
And they completed a large pilot study
on energy management information systems
and automated system optimization.
And they call this EMIS and ASO.
The government and acronyms.You know, it's a thing.
(26:31):
But the report concludedthat using these systems,
they can, like Nantum AI,
they can result in 5 to11% whole building savings,
which is pretty significant.
And that by automating
the government's real estate operations,
they could save the federalgovernment $28.7 million
(26:52):
in energy costs a year,
while also significantlyreducing carbon emissions.
- Yeah, thanks for sharing those numbers.
Because it's one thingjust to talk about it,
but when you actually see the numbers
and the impact that it can have,
it makes it a little bit more powerful
and makes these initiatives
that we're workingtowards something greater.
So I'm curious, though,
(27:12):
because you mentioned that partnership,
but we're talking about alot of different technologies
and sensors and software and hardware
that goes into doing some of these things
and making those use casessuccessful for your customers.
I'm curious, are there anytechnology partnerships
that you guys used tomake some of this happen?
- So we focus mostlyon the software aspect
(27:34):
of what we do today.
And we partner with a lot of companies
who have access toaccurate and precise data.
And the best way to get that is often
through API integration.
And, you know, the better data in,
the better data out, right?
So there's definitely thatcomponent of our partnerships,
but we also rely heavily on hardware.
(27:55):
At Nantum AI,
I believe that every buildingcould become a smart building.
And we have found thatbuildings that are powered
by Intel chips have the mostcapacity to become smart.
So all of our buildingsoperate on an Intel Gateway,
and this combination kind
of makes us a perfect partner with Intel.
So our goal is to become thesmarter building provider
(28:17):
for every building in the world,
which is made possibleand powered by Intel.
- Yeah, that's great to hear.
Obviously, insight.techand the insight.tech Talk,
we are sponsored by Intel.
But I think what's greatabout using Intel chips,
and even they have the AI toolkits,
is that they're always updating
based on the innovations and the trends
(28:37):
that they see are happening.
So we talked about vendor lock-in,
we talked about being able to scale
and being able to innovate.
They're making sure thatthat's all happening.
So it's great to see that youguys are partnering with them.
We are running out of time.
I know we could probablytalk about this space
for another hour or so.
We've only scratched the surface.
But, you know, before we go,
(28:58):
I want to throw it backto each of you guys,
if there's any finalthoughts or final takeaways
that you want to leave our listeners with.
This is such a big topic,
so if there's anything that you think
that they should get outof this conversation,
or that they should start doingto make some of these goals.
Maciej, I'll start with you.
- So we've been talking about technology,
but something very important to mention
in context of this entirewide topic of sustainability
(29:22):
and attaining net-zero goalsis that it must be used
to also unite people over a common goal.
At points where we aretalking about something
that isn't just a business decision,
but also an ethical decision
and a decision that mayimpact the collective future.
(29:45):
Delivering the solutionsthat we are working on here
in Blue Bolt, it's not justa business model to realize,
but also a higher conceptthat is good to have in mind
when thinking about theneeds of our stakeholders,
when thinking aboutthe needs of our users,
and the way we can maximizethe collective goodness,
(30:07):
I suppose, if you can call it that,
of our solution and thechange that it brings
into the world.
- Great. Anything from you, Lauren?
- I completely agreewith what you just said.
And it's this urgency in creating
and maintaining sustainable buildings
has never been stronger.
Like, climate is not improving,
(30:27):
and we really need to worktogether to eliminate data silos
and challenges acrossdifferent departments,
but we also need to implementthe technology we have
and realize what technology we need
so that we're able to hit our goals.
AI is a huge tool
and a huge asset that wecan have in our toolbox,
and it can make reaching
(30:48):
our global decarbonization goals possible.
- Well, I just want tothank you both again
for joining the podcast.
It's been a great conversation seeing
how data can really help makebuildings more sustainable
and smarter.
It's not just aboutturning off the lights.
You need access to data, you need AI
so you can get some of these insights,
you can uncover some of these patterns,
(31:08):
and start making changes today,
you know, to better tomorrow.
So this has been a great conversation.
Thank you guys again.
I invite all of our listeners,
please go to the Nantum AIand the Blue Bolt websites
to see how they can help youstart making some changes
and start reaching your goals.
As well as follow us on insight.tech.
We'll continue to cover these partners,
as well as other partners in this space,
(31:30):
keep you up to date of all the latest
and greatest happening.
So until next time, this hasbeen "insight.tech Talk."
(upbeat music)
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