Partnerships Power the Smart Grid of the Future

Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
(upbeat music)

(00:12):
- Hello, and welcometo "insight.tech Talk"
where we explore thelatest technology trends
and innovations.
As always, I'm yourhost, Christina Cardoza,
Editorial Director of insight.tech,
and today we're going to be talking
about the smart grid of the future.
And we have a panel ofexpert guests from Advantech,
Capgemini, CCS Insight, Enedis,
and Schneider Electric,

(00:33):
but first I would love to getto know more about our guests
and what they're doing in this space.
Paul from Advantech, I'll start with you.
What can you tell us about the company
and what you guys aredoing in the energy space?
- So firstly my nameis Paul O'Shaughnessy.
I'm the Sales Director for Northern Europe
and the Sector Head for energy
and utilities in Europe for Advantech.
A little bit about Advantech first,

(00:53):
we're a Taiwanese-headquarteredcompany established in 1983.
We're a leading IPC market share company.
We service a lot of industries.
Energy and utilities isone of those sectors.
It's primarily my focus.
And we have three manufacturingplants globally in Japan,
China, and Taiwan, andlooking to expand on that.

(01:14):
What we do in the energy sector today is,
and what we would be known for
is basically a combination of fan
and fanless systemsthat are used in primary
and secondary substations
for centralized protection and control.
And we would also bekind of a domain leader
in that hardware
in terms of the development ofthat hardware for the future,

(01:37):
for the next trends in termsof digitalizing the grid.
The other areas thatwe've been involved in
have been in the connectivity,
secure connectivity toremote assets on the grid.
And that's something I'lltalk to a little later
as we go through the podcast.
The big change for us right now
is that we're realigning the business

(01:57):
to become vertically focusedrather than regionally focused.
So very significantfocus from headquarters
and a drive to focus onenergy and utilities.
- Great, looking forward todigging in a little bit more
about what that means forthe future and for the grid.
But next I will start withPhilippe from Capgemini.
Tell us a little bit more about yourself
and what Capgemini is doing in this space.

(02:19):
- Hello everyone.
So Philippe Vie, Energy Transition
and Utilities Capgemini Advisor,
I was the former Headof the Energy Transition
and Utilities sector within the company.
I am participating in many projects
about grid modernizationwhich is definitely one
of the key offer of the company.

(02:43):
The company covering consulting,
engineering and application services,
plus insight and data,intelligent industry,
and many others, over 50countries in the world.
And we see a significant growth
in grid modernization these days.
- Thank you, Philippe.
Ian, I'll throw it to you next.

(03:04):
CCS Insight just publisheda paper on this very topic,
with contributions
from various differentguests on the podcast today,
"The Grid of the Future."
It's available on insight.tech,
so we'll dig into some of that.
But before we get into that,
what can you tell us about whatyou're doing at CCS Insight
and if there's anything you can tease up
about that report we have.

(03:25):
- So I'm Ian Fogg.
I'm a Research Director at CCS Insight.
We're an industry analystcompany that looks
at technology transformation
across a number of different areas.
For this piece,
we looked a lot about what'shappening with the grid
and talked to many of thepeople on this podcast
and many other companies as well.
We also looked at what theparallels are with other sectors,
with digitization in other industries,

(03:47):
and what the implications are
for the grid of the futurefrom those wider perspectives.
- Awesome.
I love that.
So far we've had we have ananalyst, we have hardware,
we have software,
we have a lot of people fromdifferent spaces in this area.
So I think it's going tobe a great conversation.
And then also joining us,we have Marc from Enedis.

(04:08):
So what can you tell usabout what Enedis does
and where you see thefuture of the grid going?
- Hello, I am Marc Delandre from Enedis.
I am Director for AdvancedNetwork Technologies
within Enedis.
Enedis is a main French DSO
and probably one of thelargest in the world.

(04:29):
Enedis is a full subsidiary of EDF.
We are operating the medium
and low-voltage network in France.
It means over 1.4 million kilometers,
800,000 secondary substations
and almost 40 million customers.

(04:53):
And we have to face on a daily basis
with more and more renewables
and charging points connected to the grid.
And it's a big challenge
for us for the coming months and years.
- Yeah, I expectrenewables to be a big part
of this conversation that we'll get into.
But before we get there,last but not least,

(05:14):
and I did the introductionsby company alphabetical order.
So that's the only reasonwhy we kept Valerie last.
But we saved the best for last.
Valerie from Schneider Electric,
what can you tell us aboutwhat you do in this space
and Schneider?
- Yeah, sure.
Hi, everyone.
So very happy to be heretoday with all of you.

(05:35):
I'm Valerie Layan.
I'm the Vice President in charge
of what we call Power andGrid Segment in Europe.
So this is all the chain of energy
from the power generation,transmission, distribution,
down to what we call the "prosumer."
Schneider Electric is really the leader
and the specialist in energy management
and industrial automation.

(05:56):
So we do everything wecan to help our customer
get their infrastructure more resilient,
more efficient, and more sustainable.
And we accompany them withwhat we call EcoStruxure,
which is IoT architecture,
from the connected product
up to software analytics layers

(06:16):
to really make their network smarter.
- That's great.
And that's sort of
where I want to start the conversation off
today with you, Valerie.
You just mentionedyou're helping customers
be more resilient, efficient, sustainable.
So since you're working
with all of these different customers,
and I imagine they're in various states
of their transformationsor ability to innovate,

(06:37):
what would you say is thecurrent state of the grid
and our efforts to make it smarter?
- I would say that the gridis not smart enough today
and requires much more digitization
to make it more efficient, as I mentioned,
but also flexible and decarbonized.
So for that we have somestandard like IEC 61850-2

(06:59):
that is contributing to basicallymake it more standardized
in terms of a substation, what we can do.
But we will need the 61850-3
to really make it even more efficient
with the start of virtualization.
The root cause of all this need,
I want to do a kind of step back.

(07:20):
Why do we need the grid tobe smarter or more digital?
It's really coming from a pressure
at the EU level to have abetter mix of renewable,
and we have to grow from 23%of renewable in the mix in '22
to 42.5%, actually the niceaim is even 45% by 2030,

(07:43):
which means it's put a lot
of pressure onto the gridto integrate this renewable.
And this is happening at the edge,
and we cannot anymore imagineto invest in a lot of hardware
and CapEx to absorb that capacity both
on this generation sideand on the demand side,

(08:04):
because I don't evenspeak about the demand
for more electrification, EV, et cetera.
We all know this pressureon the demand side.
So we need to make the grid more digitized
and smarter to not onlycount on the CapEx,
which usually is takingfive years as a project,
but to make it more efficient

(08:24):
by putting extra softwareto make it smarter.
So for example, if we implementor deploy ADMS solution,
we know we can reduce
at bare minimum the technicallosses by one point,
which means basicallyhaving it more efficient,
more resilient.
And we know, for example withthe case with Enel in Italy,

(08:46):
where when we deploy inside,
they were saving up to€10 million per year
on investment that they savedbasically by putting that.
So this is key, this digitization,
and the journey is long,and we are not yet there.
So we are really, you know,pushing all the ecosystem

(09:06):
to make sure that we actuallyinvest on the software.
And just one last point of reference,
usually when we invest$1 or €1 on renewable,
we should invest the same on grid.
And actually it's more oneon renewable for 75¢ on grid.

(09:27):
So we see that there is a requirement
to invest more on the grid.
- I always love when we talk
about these transformationsbeing a journey,
because it is a journey
and it's not a cookiecutter approach either.
Companies and everybody may be
in different parts of the journey
and they may need differentthings as part of their journey.
So we're going to dive
into a lot of these different journeys

(09:50):
and how we can successfully do that.
But I'm curious before we get there, Ian,
with the smart grid reportthat CCS Insight did,
are you seeing some of the similar things
about where we are with the grid
and the transformations as Valerie
and Schneider's outlook is?
- Well, obviously on the generation side,
there's been a massiveshift to renewables,
and we have comparison of2010 and 2023 in the report

(10:13):
with some figures across 48 markets.
The interesting piecethere is when you look
at where the growth hascome from within renewables,
if you look at hydro, wind, and solar,
it's come from solar and wind,
which have very differentpatterns of generation.
Which I think leads towhat Valerie is saying
about why you need to also invest
in the grid alongside the renewable side.

(10:35):
I think the other piece
that's interesting is it's not just the,
I think, which I think one ofthe speakers just touched on,
is it's not just the shift
within the electricity generationindustry to renewables.
As the wider economy decarbonizes,
that shifts a greater proportion
of the overall energyneeds of each country
to electricity as well.
And that has another dynamic.

(10:57):
And then on the consumptionside or the distribution side,
you have not just newconsumption with things like EVs,
you've also got generationhappening with solar panels
which can make thatpotentially a two-way dynamic
which is quite different
to what that distribution grid used to do.
And then you think about, well,
how do you balance theconsumption with the generation?

(11:20):
And you can obviouslylook at storage solutions,
but in other ways havinggreater intelligence
in the grid to encourage people
to shift the consumptionpattern across hours of the day.
And there you need very very good,
very speedy data communication
between the different parts of the grid,
right the way from the users,
right the way through the distribution

(11:40):
to help you balance that need.
And that requires newinvestment in technology,
in substations, in billing systems,
in all kinds of parts of the grid.
- Yeah, and I think thechanges can be so complicated
and confusing sometimes.
I typically think thebest way to be successful
and for it to be able to scale
and to be broad acrossdifferent countries,

(12:04):
like you were mentioning.
But like you mentioned,
different countries need different things.
And I think almosteverybody on this podcast,
we're all in differentplaces throughout the world.
So I want to look
at some of the factors that are pointing
to the smart grid thatare driving this effort.
Philippe from Capgemini,
can you tell us a littlebit about what you're seeing

(12:24):
and what the demand orpressure is from Capgemini?
- Absolutely, Christina.
And I will build onValerie and Ian's points.
Definitely.
First of all, renewables are intermittent,
which means that some hours of the day
you have too much generationcompared to the consumption,

(12:46):
and some hours of the day
you have not enough generation
compared to the consumption.
So we need to definitely balance,
and there is a lot of pressureon the electric system
and on the electric grids
for this production equalsconsumption balance,
and the Kirchhoff law.

(13:08):
Definitely.
This overcapacity,
some periods of the daywill make the markets
with many negative episodes,
negative prices episodes,
that are endangeringthe energy transition,
because it's endangering the profitability
of generation players,

(13:28):
amongst which renewables players.
Secondly, there is a paradigm shift,
because in the past the energysources were centralized
and the electricity wereflowing through transmission
and distribution grids
from the centralized generation assets.

(13:50):
Today, the renewables aredistributed in the grid,
and it makes a paradigm shift
from one-way to two-way electricity flow.
Then we have the massive electrification.
We are today at 23% of electrification
compared to the energy needs.

(14:11):
And we will move probablyfrom the scenario,
the Net Zero Scenario
from the InternationalEnergy Agency to about 50%
or 60% depending on theregion of the world,
meaning that we have EV charging,
we have electric heating for industry
and for buildings andresidential customers.

(14:32):
We have hydrogen production.
We have a data center which accounts today
for 2% of the electricity
and which will accountfor 4% of electricity.
Very strange,
today the consumption of data center
equals the production of France.
It's a significant country.

(14:54):
We have also hydrogen production,
we have also storage, which is coming.
Then the other drivers areabout the digital technology,
which have progressed a lot,
the convergence between IT and OT,
the AI, Gen AI tomorrow.
Automation can be leveraged

(15:15):
to avoid electrical physicalinvestments on networks.
As Valerie stated,
anytime you put $1 on renewables,
you need to put $1 on grids.
And it will mean that we will move
from $400 billion on grid investment today

(15:38):
to $700 billion by the endof the decade, by 2030.
It's a huge increase in the investment,
and it will increase theprice of the electricity,
of course.
- Yeah, a lot going ondriving these efforts
and a lot that we still need to address
and begin to even make dents in.

(16:01):
Marc, from Enedis' standpoint,
because you guys sort of are coming in
and you're part of this conversation
and the innovations of the grid
from a different perspective.
So are you feeling thosesame drivers and factors,
and what pressures doyou feel from your end?
- I fully agree with what has been said
by Valerie, Ian, Paul, and Philippe.

(16:25):
Electricity is magic.
You can do almosteverything with electricity.
You can do heating, airconditioning, lighting, cooking.
You can use electricity fora car, for trains, and so on.
Electricity can be generatedby big units, nuclear plants,
by solar panels, by wind farm, and so on.

(16:50):
But there is a big issue with electricity.
It's not impossible,
but very difficult to store electricity.
You know, we have theexperience of electric cars,
and the main issue with electric cars
is the range of the cars,
the sizing of the batteries.
So the challenge we haveto deal with is to balance

(17:14):
in real time energyconsumption and generation.
And it has to be done
at the level of the primary substation,
at the level of the secondary substation,
and by any customer connected to the grid.
And to do that, we need tools.

(17:34):
We need the tools developedwith our partners.
And the main issue we have
is that an electric grid is notan entity inside a building.
It's covering a big country.
So we have many, many units in the field.
So when we invest, we investa huge amount of money.

(17:58):
So it has to be affordable by the customer
because at the end the customer
will pay all the investment on the bill.
But we need to have a solution
we can operate for years, for a long time.
So we will discuss aboutstandardization, open standard,
about also cybersecurity, and so on,

(18:20):
to manage all this in the long term.
- It's interesting becausewhen I hear the term smart grid
or think of the grid being smart,
I think of edge AI
and automation and all ofthese different digital tools
and technologies we've been talking about.
But we also have to be smart
in the ways that we approach the grid,
which has become very clearjust from the beginning
of this conversation.

(18:40):
And of course,
edge AI and all thistechnology is part of it,
but it's not the reasonto be becoming smart
and to be doing this.
So I want to lay outwhat the main pillars are
for this grid of the futureto really be successful,
because we talked aboutresiliency, efficiency,
sustainability, flexibility, you know,

(19:01):
having a right balance.
So, Ian, is there anythingthat you can share with us
about what this all means
as we move towards the future of the grid
and what those real pillarswe should be looking at are?
- Well, I think to highlightsome of the challenges,
I mean, one of the otherchallenges when you look at, say,
EV adoption, is oftenit's not spread evenly,
so you get areas of the gridthat have greater pressure

(19:24):
from some of these changes than others.
I think the bigger challenge, though,
when you think aboutthe grid of the future
and you think about making it smarter,
is what we need to do isto increase the flexibility
of the system so it can respond
to these different consumptionand generation patterns,
but we must also maintainthe reliability of the grid
at the same time.

(19:44):
It's not acceptable
for the grid to become asunreliable as a cellular network.
It has to maintain the reliability
while also adding increased flexibility.
And that has very specific challenges
when you start looking atthe technology that needs
to be deployed to improvethat responsiveness,
to improve that flexibility,
but still keep up the reliability.
- That's great.

(20:05):
And, Paul, in the beginningof your introduction,
you mentioned how Advantech,
you guys focus on hardware,
and so I'm sure there'sa lot of pressures coming
in just looking at that
and making sure that youhave all the hardware
and technology in place.
So as Ian's talking aboutsome of the challenges,
I want to hear from your perspective,
what are the limitations that you face

(20:28):
from a hardware perspectivein making this possible?
- Yeah, that's a good point.
Advantech has a massiveportfolio of product.
The issue is, have wegot the right product?
And that's the real questionwhen you start to talk
about some of the challenges
and some of the considerations
we need to take into account here.
As a hardware manufacturer, for me,

(20:49):
one of the major challengeswhen I look at this
and I listen to Philippe
and I listen to Marcand Valerie talk about,
and Ian talk about what'sgoing on and the scale of it.
It's the scale of the challenge that,
from a hardware perspective,
is a great thing, of course,
but it's also a huge challenge
for all of us to try and cope with.

(21:10):
The other aspect that we need to look at
as a hardware manufacturer,
and indeed the end users
and the SIs and all the other ecosystem
that are deploying thetechnology is the variability
of those assets that are deployed.
It's not like it's a standard asset.
There is a huge variability.
And that variabilityrequires multiple solutions.

(21:34):
And if you think about theE4S Alliance, for instance,
where I think all of us are members,
we have 13 use cases in that alone
within the E4S working groups
that we have to try andmake sure we can service
with an open platform.
So getting that informationabout the volume

(21:56):
and the variability and the definition,
so the hardware definitionfor us is the big challenge,
clearly defining what that is.
And that's driven by the use case
and the type of assets in the application.
And we have to consider things
like we're a hardware manufacturer,
but we have to consider that we need
to be able to support various softwares,

(22:16):
we have to be able tosupport legacy protocols
and all of the newprotocols that are required.
Is it real time deterministic system,
virtualization, security?
These are all key topics.
Security has a hardware element with TPM.
Is that something that'sgoing to be required?
And then working with partners,

(22:37):
strategic technology partners like Intel,
who are a significant partner for us,
on defining the processorroadmaps that we need
to be focused on,
to leverage that,
to ensure we're bringing theright products to market.
Storage technology, IO, cooling,
all of these are keythings that are driven
by the variability ofthe assets in the field

(23:00):
and the scale of them.
But also there's one other big thing,
and Valerie alluded to it earlier,
which was about complianceto things like 61850-3
and IEEE-1613 and these.
So as a hardware manufacturer,
these are things we have to comply to
to be a player in this space.
And that is not aninexpensive topic to discuss.

(23:21):
It's a real challenge,particularly if the definition
of the product is not really fixed.
It can become a veryexpensive thing to deal with.
- Yeah, it is quiteintimidating, this journey.
You're talking about thetechnological challenges,
it's cultural challenges.
And then you have all the pressures
from needing more electricity,electrical vehicles,

(23:44):
different regulations.
And you know, it's one of those changes
and transformations that we can't ignore.
Everybody has to be moving towards this.
It's not that you can continue
to do things the waythat we've been doing it.
So it's great to hear thatyou guys have all teamed up
with the ES4 Alliance, you know,
making sure that we approachthis in the right way,
that we standardizehow we're going to Move

(24:06):
so that we can start addressing
and partnering togetherwith all of these challenges
and limitations.
And I'm sure there's more challenges
that we haven't even crossed yet.
- The challenges are many.
The money, because you haveto increase your investment
in digital grid and in the grid itself.

(24:27):
And the investment approvalshould be made by stakeholders,
shareholders, but alsogovernments and regulators
to probably doubling
in 2030 the investmentsthat were made in 2020.
Second challenge is the skill scarcity.
Smart grid will createprobably in the next 20 years,

(24:50):
5 million of jobs with thedigital technology at the core.
And there is also the move fromelectrotechnics to digital.
And there is also the BabyBoomer retirement wave
and many people to replace.
The lack of roadmaps,

(25:11):
many utilities are launching one program,
the second program,
but you need to have a consistent roadmap
and to revise it every two or three years,
because things are moving very fast.
The permitting, when youare building new lines,
there is a digitalcontent about permitting,
and it can take one to six years

(25:31):
in main geography to build a new line.
And digital engineering isvery useful in that direction.
And of course peopledon't want electric lines
in their backyard.
Same then for windmills or renewables.
And finally there is alsothe lack of standards.

(25:52):
Valerie has mentionedthe subsidiary standard,
and we need, and this isthe purpose of E4S and vPAC,
depending on thegranularity of substation,
to agree all of us,
technology providers and grid operators,
on common standards todevelop interoperable objects,

(26:13):
interoperable modules on smart data.
Each limitation goes withmany solutions that can vary
from one country to another,
from one electric grid state to another.
So big program, a needfor roadmap and many,

(26:33):
many challenges to overcome.
- One thing I want to touch on
that all of you have spoken about
is the idea of renewable energy sources
providing clean energy to the grid
in an effort to help itbecome more sustainable,
resilient and that overall efficiency
that we keep talking about.

(26:54):
But of course, renewable energy sources,
they also come withtheir own considerations
and challenges when approaching the grid.
So Ian, I know this was touched upon
in that Grid of the Futurereport from CCS Insight.
What are the considerations
and how should we be thinking
about renewable energysources when we are moving

(27:14):
towards a smarter grid?
- I think, as I said, storingenergy is very difficult.
So if you can alter theconsumption patterns
to better respond
and reflect the morevariable generation patterns
that you get with solar or wind,
you don't need to have asmuch generation capacity.
And that's why that substationpiece is so important,

(27:35):
because you put intelligence there,
you can help match things up.
One of the examples thatwe've seen is the nature
of electricity tariffs is changing.
In some consumer spaces we'reseeing half-hourly price
points and sometimes even more.
And that requires very precise timing,
very good technology at the end user,

(27:55):
but also in the substationand right the way through.
And what's driving that,
a lot of that is this shift to renewables.
I think we saw between 2010and 2013, across 48 countries,
the proportion of electricitygeneration that was wind rise
from 2.6% to 10.8%.
Solar, similar rise fromunder 1% up to 6.6%.

(28:19):
So very significant increase in those.
Obviously solar is seasonalin terms of time of year.
The further you are from the equator,
you get big winter-summer differences.
Wind obviously variesbased on the weather.
We've got to have that greater flexibility
and that requires greater communication
within the grid technologysystems that are able

(28:40):
to marry this thing up.
- I'm just curious,
since Enedis is managingelectricity distribution networks
and we talked about renewable energy,
how do you guys approach renewable energy
or what is the role insome of your efforts
renewable energy is taking?

(29:01):
- We have to deal with renewable.
And tomorrow every customerwill become a prosumer.
So it means you will have renewable energy
for each single dwelling house,
on the top of any building everywhere.
And the key role of the network

(29:25):
will be to balance energygeneration and consumption.
It will be our core activity tomorrow.
So it's strategic,
because without electricityyou cannot do everything.
It's strategic, because it'svery important for everyone,

(29:47):
and it needs a strong, strong investment.
- Yeah, and the great thingis that there have been
so many advancements in technology
to help get us closer to our goals.
It's funny, we've been talking
about moving towards asmart grid for years,
probably decades now.
And what has changed

(30:08):
during this conversationis technology has advanced
to help us reach some of these goals.
So I want to look
at some of those recenttechnological advancements
and how they can help.
And then we'll get into later down
in the conversation
how you can successfullyadopt those new technologies.
So, Valerie, I'll start with you.
From Schneider's perspective,
what can you tell us about new technology

(30:31):
in this space that is helpingus go towards a smart grid?
- So new is maybe not new,
but new for grid, I would say,
because there is a maturityin other segments like telco,
health, transportationthat have been using some
of this technology prior to grid.
And this is good,
because we will leveragekind of mature technology

(30:54):
into make our grid smarter.
So first of all there is an evolution
of ADMS solution toreally make what we say
we want to have a gridthat is more efficient
and more resilient.
We have a capacitymanagement, outage management,
load and generationcontrol, asset management,

(31:15):
power quality that are reallyhere building the reliability
of this network and its efficiency.
There is also the need,
we mentioned a lotrenewable and the prosumer.
For me there are two things.
There is a generation,but there is a prosumer.
Prosumer is very interesting

(31:36):
in the scheme of flexibility at the edge,
because these are these industry
or these commercial buildings,
even potentially consumersthat have their own generation.
I mean typically solarrooftop can be an example,
but in a bigger consumerindustrial area a port for example,
they could have actuallywind as a generation

(32:00):
and then they are goingto potentially reinject,
resell that capacity to thegrid depending on the price
at a certain time versusstorage, et cetera.
So we have now a solution
to integrate this flexibility at the edge.
And these are things we see
in the evolution to makethe grid more efficient

(32:22):
and also to monetize that ecosystem.
The second technology which is not new
but that we are also bringing
into grid is digital twinwhich can be used for training,
for simulation, forremote software updates,
typically also formanaging the IED firmware

(32:43):
as a fleet to upgrade them
at a certain point of time altogether.
So we have, we mentioned compliance.
So we have IEC 61850-2 that ishelping in terms of security,
cybersecurity, openness.
It's the first level ofstandardization that can help

(33:05):
at the substation level.
And the third point is withall this data at the edge,
putting pressure on the substationvirtualization is a key.
This is why we are all in E4S,
and because we believe
that this virtualizationwill absorb the level
of data that is coming
and the pressure thatis coming at the edge

(33:26):
on the secondary substation.
We have the experience from other market,
to name one, telecom, at least.
And 61850-3 is under definition.
And also in E4S,
we really want to collaborate
to define open standardreference architecture

(33:48):
and common design towardsthis virtualization.
So I think we have amix of mature technology
coming from other endmarkets, plus our own,
I would say like ADMS technologythat is evolving to take
into account for exampleflexibility or virtualization.

(34:09):
- So in some of the research,
"The Grid the Future,"
you talked about what businesses can learn
from other transformationshappening in other industries.
So is there anything
from that report thatyou can share with us?
- So I think virtualizationis one of the key ones
where in Many industries,
we've seen them moveahead with virtualization

(34:31):
shift more functions fromhardware into software,
use standardized hardware solutions
which give you scalabilityto upgrade the platform
to support higher performance workloads.
We've seen that in many,many different industries.
I think the other piece that we've seen
in other sectors is this combination
of operation technology and IT

(34:53):
and how OT and IT interact.
We've seen that,
and there's some examples inthe report around that too,
around what that interaction is
and what the differentcultures are around that.
And that's something wherethere are other industries
which are going through exactly that same
kind of transformation.
- It's good to hear that wehave some of this technology
from different industries
or technology becomingmore mature that is going

(35:14):
to help us make these changes.
I think digital twinning is very powerful,
being able to make thatdigital representation
and see how changes are made
before they're actually implemented.
And so from your perspective,
what other advancements
or what other technologydo you see being used
in these efforts?

(35:34):
- So I will take different angles,
because I agree with everythingValerie has mentioned.
Definitely, I will takethe angle of automation.
For example, we are dreaming
of a control room without people,
only for critical conditions,but fully automated.
We are dreaming
of AI enabling self-healingwhen there is an outage

(35:58):
to reconnect the consumers,
99% of the consumersin one or two minutes.
We are dreaming of predictive maintenance,
as Paul stated earlier.
We are dreaming of allthe AI capabilities.
And many utilities are deploying AI

(36:19):
at scales with 2030 use cases,
which are really beneficial
for the grid performanceand for avoiding investment.
For example, digital dynamic line lighting
to go with more electricity
than the nominal capacity of the line.

(36:44):
We are dreaming of assetinvestment lifecycle planning.
It starts with Accel AIenabled grid planning.
Then you can follow the full cycle
of construction up to thedeconstruction of the line,
of the nodes of thenetwork, the transformers.

(37:04):
So many technologies can be enabled today
to bring value to the grid operators
and finally to the consumers.
- Great.
And you know, the automation,
the data like you all mentioned,
I think it's also going
to be extremely importantgetting real time analytics

(37:24):
and all of this information
so that we can make changes on the fly
or we can really getlike these deep insights.
So all you were mentioningthe edge and AI.
So Paul, I know this is somethingthat you also brought up
in the beginning.
What is the role goingto be of edge in AI?
Because this has been a big conversation

(37:45):
in all different industries.
So how is edge AI coming into the energy
and the utility space?
- I think if I talk about itfrom our business perspective,
this is the fastest growingpart of the business bar none.
It is absolutely exploding.
And the number of use cases
and applications are growing day by day.

(38:07):
Up until now, it hasbeen heavily dominated
by vision-based applications.
We have seen so much of that.
But I think to somethingthat Philippe mentioned,
which is about real timemonitoring and control,
that is something where edgeAI has a real opportunity
to have massive impact on the grid

(38:29):
in terms of real timedecision-making at the node,
at the substation,
allowing for immediate responsesto change grid conditions
and improving the stabilityand reducing downtime.
The other one was predictive maintenance.
We see this already heavily deployed
in manufacturing environments
where by analyzing the datafrom existing sensor networks

(38:52):
and overlay sensor networksthat are being deployed,
where you have that IT/OT conflict
where rather than trying to fixsomething that isn't broken,
you overlay a new networkand put that in place.
We've seen a lot of thathappening and has a huge impact
in terms of the utilization of edge AI

(39:12):
in optimizing the efficiencyof manufacturing environments.
I see no reason why the samething can't apply in the grid.
The other one, and thetopic that comes up probably
as the most talked about topic
within the IoT sectorin general is security.
I think AI has a real opportunity here,

(39:35):
and AI on the edge has a real opportunity
in terms of enhancing thesecurity already in place,
both from a cybersecurity perspective,
but also from a physical security
and from a health and safety perspective.
I said at the start thatwe've seen an explosion
in the area of vision,
and what we see is a lotof vision applications
for edge AI where it is protecting workers

(39:59):
in dangerous environments
and ensuring that the peoplewho are getting access
to certain environmentsare the people qualified
to access them.
And I think that is something
that has an absolute play for the grid.
And then as I said withthe cybersecurity part,
being able to monitor behavior
and identify unusual behavior

(40:20):
at the point on the nodeis a critical aspect
of cybersecurity andenhancing that with edge AI.
They would be the three main areas that
as a manufacturer thatwe see real opportunity
for deployment into the grid.
- You bring up some great points.
As we are adding all ofthese digital technologies

(40:41):
and advancements to the grid,
we have to make sure that thetheme of the conversation,
the reliability, thesustainability, the efficiency,
we have to make sure that it's secure
so that it could be able to do all
of these different things.
One thing you mentioned andyou all mentioned is, you know,
like AI is going to be reallygood at the substation.
A lot of these changes aregoing to be really good

(41:03):
at the substation.
And it's funny,
when we first had thisconversation years ago
about this market, thesubstation was the best place
or the first place tostart making these changes.
And so we're still having conversations
around changes at the substation.
So I wanted to understand, you know,
what is happening at the substation.
Is this still the bestplace to make these changes

(41:25):
or to start some of these efforts,
or have we moved beyond the substation
and are focusing on different areas?
- I would say thesubstation is still alive.
It's true that some of your offers,
like the one we mentioned before,
asset performance managementfor predictive maintenance,
digital twin, ADMS, DERMS,

(41:46):
I mean all at enterprise level,
like any control center, SCADA, et cetera.
However, as I also mentioned,
the need to integrate renewable farms
and prosumer is happening at the edge,
and the flexibility needsto happen at the edge.
So for us, the secondarysubstation is alive

(42:06):
but has to adapt to the new challenge
and basically virtualizationis a part of the answer.
So yes, there is a future
for the secondary substation really due
to the pressure thatwill happen at the edge,
both in terms of connection and data.
- I fully agree.

(42:26):
We need real time monitoring and control,
we need edge computing,virtualization, and so on.
Cybersecurity is a key point.
I would add we need alsoan evolving solution.
We don't know today what willbe the priority use cases
at the secondary substationin 5 or 10 years.

(42:49):
So we need evolving solutionsbased on open standards.
Why open standards?
Because big DSOs suchas Enedis cannot rely
on any proprietary solutioneven if it is a very good one.
We have to be able to mixin the field solution.

(43:10):
When I say solution, it means hardware
or software coming fromdifferent provider.
So it means certification,it means interoperability.
And this has to be definedwithin the E4S organization.
- So I think that thesubstation keeps coming up
as a critical point,

(43:31):
and that's because it's that focal point
for local distribution,for data gathering,
local control and protection.
And I think the otherpiece here is that piece
of how do we build them,
how do we upgrade thoseto give us longevity?
When we think about AI,
which is becoming thisincredibly important thing now,
if we'd been having thisconversation eight years ago,

(43:51):
we probably wouldn't havebeen talking about AI.
And in the timescale of a grid,
eight years is actually not that long.
When we look at thetechnology we're putting in,
the open interfaces that Marc referred to
are very important togive us that longevity,
give us that abilityto continue to upgrade.
Virtualization also gives us capabilities,
because as you putfunctions into software,

(44:14):
what we've seen in other industries
is that that makes theinnovation cycle easier.
It gives you a longer runway of innovation
that you can upgradethe underlying hardware
and upgrade the software functions
kind of separately if you need to.
And that, I think is reallyimportant for that longevity
and that ability that we need

(44:35):
to respond to changingconsumption and demand patterns.
- That's a great point,
and it just highlightsthe need to future-proof
what we were talkingabout eight years ago.
AI wasn't really on our radar,
or some of these technologiesweren't on our radar.
So to Marc and everyone's point.
- If it was on the radar,we'd call it machine learning,

(44:55):
we wouldn't have called it AI.
And certainly Gen AIwasn't on anyone's radar.
- So this need for future-proofingis even more important.
I want to hear from Paulfrom a hardware perspective,
because it makes it very difficult
for someone like Advantech
to be able to keep upwith all of these changes,
to know what changes to bring in,
and to allow your customersto be able to take advantage

(45:18):
of these changes without having to go
through all new investments.
So I'm curious, how cancompanies future-proof?
How is Advantech helping
with future-proofingefforts when we are talking
about the grid of the future?
- Well, I think if you kind of step back
from it a little bit
from our just purely hardware perspective
and to some of the pointsthat have already been raised,

(45:41):
you know, being a member of the E4S,
being a member of vPAC,
and the 450 MHz Alliance,and all these alliances,
the one thing that's really clear
is the only way we can achievewhat we need to achieve
as an ecosystem and future-proofing,
what we need to do is through modular

(46:03):
and scalable architecture.
So design systems with modular components
that can be easily swapped out
for other and replaced.
This allows for incrementalchange that you need
to make to keep your systems up to speed
in terms of where they need to be.

(46:23):
Standardization and interoperability.
I guess for manufacturers like Advantech,
this is becoming more
and more of a thing thatwe need to deal with,
because given the scale of the challenge
that's in front of the grid right now,
and Marc alluded to it,
they can't work withproprietary technology.
It has to be open, becauseit has to be multi-vendor.

(46:46):
And we totally get that.
So standardization and interoperability,
allowing the open standards
and protocols that arerequired to be supported
and compatibilitybetween different devices
and systems is going tobe key to future-proofing.
I think there's another piece
that's really important to this,
and that's because it is the top topic,

(47:08):
is robust cybersecurity measures.
Implement strong cybersecurity practices
at the front end to protectagainst evolving threats.
And this includes regular updates,
threat detection, and response mechanisms
of which edge AI should besomething that can certainly help
in driving that.
But then coming backto it as a manufacturer

(47:31):
and our perspective,
one of the things that'soften overlooked when we talk
to customers and they talk
about a particular platformthat they want to use
and they've defined it,
and they've benchmarked it and whatever,
and that's got to dowith component selection
and hardware lifecycle management.
Before committing to the design,

(47:54):
we need to complete lifecycle audits
on the key technology components
to ensure the longevity is built in there.
So Advantech, working withstrategic partners like Intel,
where they actively promotetheir roadmaps with us
and make sure that we are aware
of the latest technologiesthat are form fit

(48:16):
and capable of being deployed
in this type of environmentis really critical
and is something thatI think is overlooked.
A lot of the time whenyou talk about modular
and scalable architecture,
you also have to plan in
at the front end of that some longevity
and the way to do that is to look
at some of the key technologies

(48:36):
in terms of lifecycle management.
- Yeah, and it's a great point.
Having that partnership and collaboration
and working with the E4S Alliance is going
to really be important to future-proofing.
Nothing is going to restrict you faster
than having that vendor lock in.
It's not going to be ableto move to take advantage

(48:57):
of some of the new changes
or it's going to be really expensive
because then you'regoing to have to rework
and the investments thatyou've already made.
So I wanted to touch alittle bit on that, Paul,
since you mentioned it,
the importance of workingin the E4S Alliance
and working obviouslywith partners like Intel,
I should mention "insight.tech Talk"

(49:19):
and insight.tech as a whole,
we are sponsored by Intel,
but I think they do a lot of work
to be able to have companiesand have customers,
be able to move fast,
take advantage of the changes happening,
be able to take advantage of the latest
and greatest change while stillbeing flexible and scalable.
So can you talk a little bit more

(49:39):
about the importance of those partnerships
and collaboration?
- Sure, I think youmentioned vendor lock-in.
I just want to go back tothat point for a second.
And of course, as hardware manufacturers,
there's nothing better thanbeing locked in as a vendor,
which is terrific.
But the reality is thescale of this challenge

(49:59):
and the scale of this opportunityrequires so many vendors
and so many moving parts that it has got
to be an open architecture.
And we totally get that.
Coming back to the point that you asked me
about in relation topartnerships and collaboration,
we are working now, along witheverybody in this meeting,

(50:23):
with a couple of major alliances.
The vPAC Alliance for VirtualProtection, Automation,
and Control in primary substations,
and with the E4S Alliancefor Edge for substation,
and those alliances,
and the collaboration that goes on
within the various working groups,

(50:44):
whether that's hardware, software,
go-to-market, you know,
cybersecurity, whatever it is,
is really important for all of us,
for hardware manufacturers,for software vendors,
for end users,
and I think that whole ecosystem that sits
within each of those alliances,
it's an opportunity for allof us to learn from each other

(51:07):
and to understand whatare the real requirements.
Because it's in that environment
that the real requirements are discussed
and that open architectureis being defined
so that for us as a hardware manufacturer,
we understand what we needto be thinking about next.
Even though the definitionof what's coming out of E4S

(51:28):
as a single scalable box to satisfy all
of the use cases may notbe the perfect answer
for many applications,
at least there's an abstractionbetween the software layer
and the hardware layer that allows us
to ensure that our hardware will perform
in those applications

(51:49):
given the definitionsthat have been laid out
by the alliance, andthat's the critical part.
Without the alliance,
without the collaboration,
and without the directionfrom the end users,
which is the DSOs in this case,
it would be a tough, tough job
to achieve some of the thingsthat need to be achieved.
- I completely agree.
Like we mentioned in the beginning,

(52:10):
there's so many changes happening,
so many places to make these changes,
and so many different ways to come at it.
Valerie mentioned it's a journey,so having these alliances,
it's a great starting point.
It's a great point to keep us on track
and keep us in the same direction.
It may not be aone-size-fits-all approach,

(52:31):
but it is something to look at
and to consider and tohelp us on this journey.
And Valerie, you know your main themes
throughout the conversationthat we have been talking about
is that resiliency, efficiency,sustainability, flexibility.
So from your perspective,
how are these partnerships
and collaborators helping meet those goals

(52:52):
and those pillars that Schneider has?
- Yes, so of course a lot was already said
by Paul and Marc,
and I also fully agree andsupport what they said.
What I could add on top of what they said
is that traditionallyin energy management,
energy infrastructure and grid operation,

(53:13):
it's an OT world.
So what we master verywell is OT knowledge.
But here when we speak at the challenge
and the new technologythat we need to deploy,
that comes from IT.
So it was very important
to build this alliancewith players like Intel,
like Capgemini, that havea lot of IT knowledge,

(53:37):
to leverage the bestof IT into our OT world
and to make this IT and OT works together.
And we know that IT has beenalready leveraged in telco,
in automotive health, for example.
So this is why I see a lotof value of the alliance.
Of course, the alliance'spurpose is to get open standard,

(54:01):
we mentioned it before,
not to be a slave of someproprietary protocols.
So open standard,
a kind of referencearchitecture and design,
and common use case,
because this is very important also
to have a use case whichis driven by the user,
which is in that case DSO andrepresented by Marc today.

(54:24):
But then the idea is tobring in that alliance
the best of both from OT and IT
and transform what used tobe a very hardware player,
the secondary substation,
into something that isgoing to be virtualized
and that will leverage thebenefit of the two worlds.

(54:45):
So for sure this collaboration is key.
I think we are all herebecause we believe that
and we have a nice journey in front of us.
- So we've been talking alot about the challenges
and the technology and allof these different spaces.
I want to give our listenersnow some customer examples
or case studies if we can,
that really helps them paint a picture

(55:07):
of how important these partnerships
and working withcompanies like you all are
in being able to make these ideas
and these solutions a reality.
So I want to turn it over to each of you
if you have any customerexamples that you can share
of how you are helping reshape the grid
and helping customersreshape their efforts.

(55:27):
Valerie, I'll start with you on that one.
- Yeah, sure, sure.
So I have some, I mean, generic example.
I cannot name all the customers of course,
but I mentioned at the beginning
our EcoStruxure architecture,
IoT architecture,
which is really the waywe envision the network
and the network of the future
with three layer connected product,

(55:50):
edge control, and apps analyticssoftware services layer.
So we have been deploying this solution
in some grid operations,
and we know that we can reallyreduce the delivery time
by more than 50% when havingan integrated solution

(56:10):
rather than having toconfigure at each node,
each of the hardware element,
have a really enterprise level solution
to manage the configurationof the network.
So that's one of the values.
I would say that overall alsohaving an intelligent network
is helping in the operationand maintenance part

(56:32):
of the life cycle which we havebeen able to see kind of TCO
so TotEx, CapEx, plus OpExreduction by at least 15%
by having some intelligent network
that leverage predictive maintenance,
asset performance management, et cetera.
Really the last point I wouldlike to take as an example

(56:54):
is what we are doing
on a very new approach whichwe call LV grid management
because of course we mentioned the edge.
So at the edge what's happeningis below MV there is LV
and it's becoming more andmore an issue for the DSO,
because of all these consumers that want
to connect back theirproduction to the network.

(57:17):
So LV grid management isreally an end-to-end approach
from the low-level sensor of the feeder,
the protection and thecontrol at the substation
up to the ADMS,
and we are piloting this with UNA IT.
We will announce a bit more details
during a meet about that.

(57:39):
So yes, this kind of solution,
we have started implementing it,
and we see the value both interms of CapEx optimization
and OpEx optimizationand end-to-end management
of a challenge that we seecoming with these evolutions.

(57:59):
- Great.
Looking forward to some
of the news you alluded tothat you will be announcing
in the near future.
Philippe, I'm going toturn it to you next.
Any customer examples you canshare with us of Capgemini?
- So we are working formany leading transmission
and distribution grid operatorson their smart grid journey.

(58:20):
There is no one smart gridjourney for every player,
but various priorities.
Various priorities.
We are starting with the roadmap.
It's a consulting engagement
and typically with ofcourse technology skills,
IT and OT because weare also in engineering

(58:41):
and IT integration.
Each of them are launching,
the larger players, a smart grid program
which will last 10 to 20 years,
probably with various priorities
and various domains.
I will not repeat the domainsI was mentioning earlier,
but definitely it's not one program.

(59:03):
It's a collection of large projects.
Project to replace a control room,
project to automate something,
a project to make a substationsmart and virtualized,
these kind of things.
And even when we are going tothe network instrumentation,
the smart substation,
we see that the usecases are not the same.

(59:23):
Of course we have acommon core of use cases.
But some utilities are focusing
for some substations on these use cases
and for some other use casesfor some other substations.
So definitely many examplesreplacing the control room,
instrumenting the network,

(59:44):
the smart substation withE4S and the vPAC alliances,
real-time health assetmanagement, digital twinning,
digital engineering.
When you have to build thousandsof kilometers of new lines,
which has not happened
in the developed world since a long time.

(01:00:05):
Digital engineering is definitelysomething very valuable.
Asset investment, lifecycle planning,
performance management,so many dimensions.
I will not drop the names.
There is only one I can tell,
it's Enedis for which we areworking on many dimensions,
notably on data and onsubstation with Marc.

(01:00:27):
But definitely a differentroadmap for each of them
and a need to collaborate.
I insist on that also on acommon standard with an ecosystem
of partners we are all part of these days.
- Great.
And since you mentioned Enedis, and Marc,
I'll turn the question to Marc next,

(01:00:47):
but switch it up a little bit.
How are you working with these partners
to make some of the changes?
Or what is Enedis doing in this space?
How does their journeyto the smart grid look?
- First of all,
I would like to add some commentafter what Philippe said.
You have many utilities in the world.

(01:01:09):
Enedis is one of the largest,
but we represent only 2%or 3% of the total market.
So the market is huge.
All the utilities arefacing the same problem.
Strong investment forelectrification, renewables,

(01:01:33):
charging points forelectric vehicles and so on.
Even if each utility has its own roadmap.
But the target is more or less the same.
So we have the same problems.
We have to work togetherto build a common solution.
Common solution within E4S,with Schneider, Capgemini,

(01:01:58):
Advantech, and so on.
We have big players within E4S,
and we have all the knowledgeto build the right solution
for the market and we haveto work together on it.
Enedis for sure is nota technology supplier.

(01:02:22):
We are a customer.
But we know perfectly
or almost perfectly theproblem on the grid,
how to manage the grid.
So I think altogether withIT, Capgemini, and so on,
all the partners, we are ableto define the best solution

(01:02:42):
for the coming years.
- Great.
And Paul, what can you tell us
about how you're helping customers,
how you help customers?
Like Enedis or any otherexamples you may have to share.
- Yeah, maybe I'll takea more specific story
that I can share with you.
It's been mentioned quite afew times in this discussion

(01:03:03):
about digital twins,and we had a customer,
a distribution operatorwho had a resilience issue
in terms of communication
and connectivity to their remote assets.
And they had three primaryissues to deal with.
One was the geography itself,

(01:03:24):
one was environmental, andthe other was geopolitical.
So they had some significant challenges
in terms of cybersecurity,
and then the weather and the terrain.
And we worked with a partner and that DNO
to come up with a solution

(01:03:44):
that would allow them touse one of our platforms,
our software platformsfor device management,
which uses digital twin modeling
to ensure that those devicesthat are being deployed
on the assets were secure
and that the only wayany changes could be made
in any way was from thenetwork operation center.

(01:04:07):
And that was something that we developed
over basically a two-year period with them
and rolled out to 5,000 assets.
And just to put it in perspective,
this is something that started pre-Covid.
And so when we talk aboutsome of these applications,
like digital twins,
they sound like they'rereally sophisticated things,

(01:04:27):
but they can be quite simple
in terms of modeling the piece of hardware
or the application that needs to run
on that particular piece of hardware.
And again, when we talk about things
and the way things change
and we're now talkingabout virtualization,
back then the topic wasn't virtualization,
the topic was containerization,

(01:04:48):
containerization to helpimproving the security
on the hardware.
So those are areas that we'veworked with in the past,
and today we continue towork within the alliances
obviously to ensure that weare an active participant
in the various working groupsto ensure that our hardware
and whatever solutions that we bring

(01:05:08):
to market with the other ecosystem members
in the alliances meets thestandard required for the DSOs.
- One of the things that comes up,
and I think we talked about the importance
of the communication ofdata backwards and forwards.
And one of them that wehave been involved with
is around smart metering andaround the cellular capability.

(01:05:30):
Because often smart meetsusing cellular technology
to communicate data.
The problem with that,there's two problems.
One is it's often notthat up-to-date data,
it's 15 to 60 minutes.
Often the data is spread,
which if you've got short spot pricing
and you're trying todo very smart tariffs,
isn't always quick enough.
But the other piece isit's a hardware solution

(01:05:50):
rather than a virtualizedsoftware defined solution,
which means that there are challenges now
with older smart meters thathave older cellular radios
for network generations
that the mobile operatorswant to switch off.
And that speaks the different pace,
the different life cycle
of that part of the economywith the smart grid.

(01:06:13):
And of course having thosesmart meters is foundational
for many of the usage scenarios
of shifting consumption patterns.
And if we're having to start upgrading
and replacing those early smart meters,
that's a whole pain point,
which we shouldn't really be doing.
And I think there's aninteresting dynamic around that.
If those radios were software defined,

(01:06:35):
perhaps we could update the software
in the radio to respond
to newer technologygenerations without having
to do a truck roll or ahardware replacement cycle.
- Thank you for sharing that.
Thank you everybody on this podcast.
This has been a great conversation.
It occurs to me that we probably,
despite us talking for so long,

(01:06:57):
haven't hit everything,
and we've only scratched the surface,
but we covered so much ground today.
I just want to thank eachof you for joining us.
And before we go, since thiswas such a big conversation,
I want to turn it back to each of you.
Just one final thought,
a key takeaway that you want listeners
to really get out of this conversation.

(01:07:18):
- I think the first thingI'd just say is a lot more
in the report that wehaven't even touched on here.
So definitely have a look at the report.
It's all modular.
It's all modularized tomake it easy to digest.
But I think the bigger piece here
is that there is transformation happening
throughout the grid,
and we're in the middle of aperiod of quite rapid change.
We're not at the end ofit, we're not the start,
we're right in the middle.

(01:07:38):
And this is something which isstrategic for this industry,
but this industry is criticalfor so many other industries.
We've talked about, I think,
about data centers and about the AI there.
We've talked, I think,
about the electrification ofother parts of the economy,
perhaps steel furnaces using electricity
rather than coal for that.

(01:07:59):
I mean, there's so manydifferent areas this touches on
that I think this is fascinating, I'd say,
but have a look at the report.
Lots more in it.
- And of course, the reportis available in insight.tech,
so I'll make sure to linkit in the description
for everybody to access it easily.
- Yes, I would like
to speak to the ones whoare making the change,

(01:08:21):
meaning the transmission anddistribution grid operators.
And we are all serving this.
And these points are valid for hardware,
software, and services suppliers.
One, you are the key enablersof energy transition.
Without you, without electric grids,
no energy transition is possible.
Secondly, you need to move fast forward,

(01:08:45):
definitely to accelerate,
and you are on the way
to accelerate when we seethe investment planning
of all the players.
But for that you need
to get a consistent roadmaprevised every period of time
and to secure all benefits of all projects
at all steps to monitorand secure these benefits.

(01:09:08):
You need to avoid, when possible,
grid expansion by digital technologies.
You need to join standards,
E4S and other alliances,
for effort sharing andfor investment reduction.
- Yeah, I would echowhat Philippe has said

(01:09:30):
and just to say that when we talk
about our involvement in the grid business
as a hardware manufacturer,
when I talk internally,
I talk about a marathon and not a sprint,
because it's going totake a considerable amount
of time to achieve things.
But I think we're now at a point where,

(01:09:52):
to Philippe's point,
we need to accelerate.
And the way to accelerate
is through direction and priorities.
And the alliances are working
to give us some of that for sure,
but I think to really getclear direction and priorities,
we need way more of thepeople who run the grid,

(01:10:12):
the DSOs like Enedis
and all the other ones to come join
and help us on the journey,
because even though we havesome of the biggest players
in Europe in the alliancesand some in the world,
we need everybody buying in.
So it's really important,
and we need to accelerate for sure.

(01:10:34):
And that's my objective within Advantech
is to do the same withinour product groups
and within the business in general
as a focus on energy and utilities.
- First, I would summarize
that digital end-to-end architecture
for the grid is the best way
to optimize all the investment CapEx
and OpEx that are goingto be in front of them

(01:10:55):
along the life cycle from thedesign, simulation, operate,
build, operate, and maintain
thanks to all the newsoftware analytics layers
that are available right now.
About basically what iskey to make that happen.

(01:11:16):
Standardization, we mentionedit, but it's essential.
Having a unified open approach is vital
for making that modernizationjourney efficient.
Leveraging successes ofdigitization of other sectors
and their insights
and their learning is veryvaluable in this journey.

(01:11:38):
And finally, collaboration is key.
We have to unite the OTcompanies, IT companies,
the end user, the differentexperience into one group.
E4S is perfect for that
as a body to ensure thatwe take all the knowledge
from the different perspectives

(01:12:00):
and build the smarter grid of the future.
- Great.
And last but not least, Marc from Enedis,
what can you leave us with today?
- It has been very wellsummarized by my colleagues
and I don't want torepeat, but to conclude,
I would say that we havein front of us a long
and challenging and amazing journey.

(01:12:21):
- Absolutely.
And I can't wait to see whatall of you do in this space.
How the E4S Alliance standardized things
and just the continuingjourney that we are on.
So I want to thank each of you again
for joining the podcast,
as well as all of ourlisteners for tuning in.
It has been quite a conversation

(01:12:43):
and I would say visit insight.tech
where we continue these conversations,
continue to cover thepartners here on the podcast.
(upbeat music)
So thank you all again.
Until next time, this hasbeen the "insight.tech Talk."

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