All Episodes

February 14, 2024 39 mins

Discover innovation in leadership and organizational change with Professor Emerita Karen Golden-Biddle as we explore her upcoming book, “The Untapped Power of Discovery”. This episode promises to challenge your perceptions, revealing that discovery isn't just for the chosen few—it's a creative endeavor we can all partake in. Karen shares astonishing real-world examples, like Intuit’s revelations from Quicken usage, to illustrate how discovery is not merely an outcome but a journey that can lead to profound insights and inspire better futures.

Step into a masterclass on cultural change, as we dissect Hirschman's concepts of voice, exit, and loyalty through Karen's personal factory anecdotes and a case study of healthcare transformation. For leaders eager to foster a culture of inquiry and navigate the complexities of strategic planning, Karen offers actionable steps and practical exercises, such as the benefits of maintaining a 'surprise journal.' This conversation is an invitation to engage with genuine curiosity, embrace the unexpected, and collectively step into the unknown, equipped with the tools to turn doubt into a catalyst for growth and learning.

Preorder "The Untapped Power of Discovery" by Karen Golden-Biddle here. Explore her website karengolden-biddle.com for insights, resources, and more. Uncover transformative strategies for embracing curiosity and driving positive change in your organization. 

Mark as Played
Transcript

Episode Transcript

Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
J.P. Matychak (00:25):
Hello everyone and welcome to another episode
of the Insights at Questrompodcast.
I'm JP Matychak and alongsideme today is Insights at Questrom
contributor Shannon Light.
This episode is the first tofeature our new podcast segment,
the Questrom Book Club, wherewe feature Questrom authors and
their new books.
I know that Shannon and I areboth excited about our first

(00:48):
featured author.
Karen Golden-Biddle is ProfessorEmerita in Management and
Organizations at Questrom Schoolof Business, and Karen conducts
research in the areas ofcultural change and qualitative
methodology.
She's published numerous booksand authored more than 60
articles in book chapters inmanagement journals such as the

(01:08):
Academy of Management Journaland Organization Science.
She's received a number ofawards for her research,
including her recent inductionas a Fellow in the Academy of
Management.
Her new book is titled theUntapped Power of Discovery how
to Create Change that Inspires aBetter Future.
It's a unique guide that helpsleaders at all levels and in all
types of organizations learnthe overlooked practice of

(01:31):
discovery, a vital and ongoingprocess that generates the
insight and "ahas that fuel thecreation of desired new features
or new futures.
Sorry, here to talk about herfindings is Karen Goldenbittle.
Karen, welcome to the show.

Karen Golden-Biddle (01:46):
Thank you for having me JP.

J.P. Matychak (01:47):
Excellent.
So let's start off with the bigpicture and let's talk a little
bit about what is discovery.
And in your book you talk aboutdiscovery.
So what do you mean bydiscovery?

Karen Golden-Biddle (01:58):
So, yes, that is an important question
and most people think.
I'll start with most people andwhat they think about discovery
.
I mean, you Google discovery,for example, and what you find
that comes up is DiscoveryChannel or it's the discovery
show you know those kinds ofthings around that or a legal

(02:21):
process of discovery, right, youdon't see discovery as a
process.
Similarly, when we think ofdiscovery, people think of
discovery.
We think of it as maybeColumbus discovers America, or
the scientific breakthrough, thenew vaccines that were recently
discovered, breakthrough kindsof things.

(02:43):
So it's really the outcome, thatis, it's the deliverable goal,
is what we think of discovery as, and that really short circuits
the power of discovery?
To think of it only as theoutcome.
First of all, we think of it ashappening only with the
talented individuals that areable to do this, the geniuses,
and we totally bypass theprocess.

(03:06):
How does discovery happen?
Discovery is a process, notonly an outcome.
So, as a process, that's wherewe tap its power, and so that's
one of the myths that we havethat prevent us from really
accessing the power of discovery, and I'll get to it.

(03:26):
But it is a really a creativeprocess of inquiry that
generates insights and a hazethat lead to then novel
solutions to situations thatupend our beliefs that are
upending unsettling.
So a second reason that wedon't often think of discovery
as a process follows from thefirst, which the outcome?

(03:50):
It's that we believe we havecertain beliefs about who can do
discovery, and I just hinted atthat.
But it's the scientists, it'sthe experts, it's the product
designers.
You know, it's those delegatedor designated to do discovery.
We don't think of thepossibility, which is true, that

(04:11):
anyone can do discovery Right,so the broadening of that that
everyone can.
And then, finally, I think wehaven't looked at discovery as a
process, because discoveryinvolves going into the unknown.
We have to not know things inorder to discover, and so going

(04:32):
into the unknown isuncomfortable for us humans.

J.P. Matychak (04:36):
Scary too.
It's very scary.

Karen Golden-Biddle (04:39):
Very scary.
I mean, you think about leaderswho are faced with this, who
really naturally have discomfortengaging with others in a
process with an uncertainoutcome.
Whoa, you know that is reallydifferent than controlling.
You know, we try to controloutcomes with task forces and
others by being very clear aboutwhat the deliverable is.

(05:01):
Discovery asks us to engage ina very different way.
We are taught to know.
We're not taught how not toknow, and so all of that is the
learning that goes withdiscovery.
So discovery, then, is aprocess of generating these

(05:23):
insights and haas new ideas thatreally come in response to
surprises or unexpectedsituations.
So surprise, really, theexperience really teaches us by
means of surprise.
We kind of get kind of heldinto, like what's going on here,

(05:45):
right?
So that's where discoverystarts.
So we're going to go more intothat, but it's a process that's
the key thing that anyone cancultivate this practice of being
able to do discovery, and itjust needs some knowledge and
comfort in engaging the unknown.

Shannon Light (06:08):
How would you say ?
Discovery is underutilized forhuman growth and development.

Karen Golden-Biddle (06:15):
Well, it really.
It's underutilized because ofwhat I just said.
Right, but we missopportunities every day to
capitalize on discovery.
We think about things such ashow could I have missed that, or

(06:36):
that was something I shouldhave seen coming right.
Those are indicators that we'vemissed discovery, and so those
are the ways that weunderutilize it.
We just don't know to even lookfor that or we dismiss them.
Right, we will ignore them orexplain them away with that.
I mean, there is an example.

J.P. Matychak (07:00):
Maybe I could share an example of discovery at
this point.

Karen Golden-Biddle (07:02):
And it's a fun little example.
I have a couple of them.
In fact, I've got dozens ofstories in the book about this
that all show how leaders buildthe capacity for discovery to do
this.
But one is an old story butreally valuable for
understanding discovery, andthat is from Intuit.
Intuit is a US multinationalcompany specializing in

(07:24):
financial software.
Scott Cook is the CEO.
You may or may not have heard ofthis story, but when the team
launched Quicken, their homeproduct for financial work, they
decided to survey and this wasdecades ago at this point, but
the learning process and thediscovery process has gone on

(07:44):
for decades for them.
They surveyed customers tolearn who was using their
software, natural thing to do.
One of those items that theysurveyed them about was where
they used Quicken.
About half of them replied thatthey used it at work.
No, it's a home financialproduct.

(08:05):
All of a sudden, half of themare using it at work.
That was unexpected right forScott Cook and his team.
In fact, I have a quote herefrom him, his response quote
that's weird.
We built a home product.
They're probably just takingtheir bills into the office
because they don't have acomputer at home.

(08:25):
Now that's an example of how weunderutilized discovery.
We explain it away.
Right, so he is explaining itaway.
There's a surprise in front ofhim.
Rather than moving in toexplore it, he says, oh no, that
must be the explanation for it.
So they didn't think more aboutit until follow-up surveys

(08:48):
showed the same statistic Abouthalf used Quicken at work.
He said quote it made no sense.
We ignored it.
I ignored it.
A few years passed, the stillunexpected, yet now persistent

(09:09):
survey response.
Right, it wasn't going to goaway, but it's a nag at Cook why
he asked are people answeringthis question wrong?
So, what he did.
Oh, we know that there are atleast three ways people dismiss
discovery underutilize it, theyignore clues to it, they explain

(09:30):
it away and we even censor it,like he's saying it's wrong.
It's the wrong idea, right?
So, in spite of evidence to thecontrary, the team still
couldn't let go of their beliefthat the customers use Quicken
at home, not at the office, thatthey should have done this.
So I would say at this point,they launched the discovery

(09:51):
process.
They then said, ok, we're goingto take surprise.
And so, basically, they decidedto go to their customers'
workplaces to observe what theywere doing.
And every time we can go to thesite of implementation or the
site of the difficulties, we arebetter off with discovery right
.
We will be able to see what weweren't able to see.

(10:12):
So, basically, they went andthey discovered a practice quote
they had never imagined,surprising.
They had never imaginedCustomers were using Quicken to
keep books for their smallbusinesses.
Oh, wow so it wasn't like theywere bringing their home stuff
into the work.
They were actually using themfor their home businesses.

(10:33):
That's when Cook and his teamrealized that their belief that
the only way to keep writtenrecords of business finances is
to use formal accounting methods, even in small businesses, was
wrong, right.
So we often find with asurprise that something about
our assumptions or our beliefsand I'm not using beliefs in

(10:54):
terms of religion- or politicalbut these are beliefs about how
you manage people.
You know everything in the dailyoperations that it was wrong,
so they had to really deal withthat, he said, and it clashed.
So it clashed.
They were able to see itbecause they went to the site

(11:14):
and they were able to say, okay,this is our.
They knew their belief, but allof a sudden the people were
doing something very counter towhat they had expected to see.
And that's really what you wantwith discovery you want to be
able to see beyond yourexpectations, so you create
situations to help make thathappen.
So Cook said they realizedquote something else was true,

(11:38):
different from our beliefs.
And that's where the notknowing comes in, the admitting
that we didn't know right is abig thing.
So that in turn led to thedevelopment of QuickBooks, which
remains the company's majorproduct, and they never would

(11:58):
have discovered that new productwithout having gone through the
discovery process.
So Cook in years later saidquote only these are his words
only when we started focusing onthe surprise even savoring the
surprise I love that phrase Didwe discover this giant market

(12:21):
opportunity.
Wow.
So that shows how they couldhave continued to underutilize
discovery by either ignoring itor explaining it away, or
censoring it, new ideas andthings like that, but they
didn't.
After years they finally cameand now they built it into their
culture.

J.P. Matychak (12:43):
So, picking up on this theme, of these unexpected
situations that come up, yousaid that it wasn't until they
embraced the surprise, if youwill, that they were really able
to go into these new areas ofinnovation.
You talked about peopleexplaining it away and

(13:03):
everything.
Are there other contributingfactors to what is going on in
an organization that stops thatdiscovery process?

Karen Golden-Biddle (13:14):
Yes, so really I'm thinking of discovery
now with the dozens of stories,like I've done, inductive
analyses of these dozens ofstories many of them that I've
done through field research, butalso through archival
documentation and interviews andthings.
So basically, there's thediscovery cycle that I just

(13:36):
talked about, which is you haveyour original belief, what that
is Like.
They had this belief about whatthe customers did.
You go through surprise doubt,genuine doubt, not self-doubt
when we can talk about thedifference there, self-genuine
doubt.
And then they launched thesenew ways, which is their new
product.
That's what I'm thinking of.
I've called the discovery cycle.

(13:56):
For that to work, it needs twothings.
One is confident humility onthe part of leaders, and so
confident humility is theability, the ability to say
you're wrong or I don't know,and so it means I think of it.
Carl Weich said this I argue asif you're right and listen as

(14:21):
if you're wrong.

J.P. Matychak (14:23):
Oh.

Karen Golden-Biddle (14:24):
So you hold both.
You need to be able toentertain not only what you know
but what you don't know, andthose two need to be kept in
tension with each other so thatyou're able to hear what goes
against the grain for you andentertain it.
You may or may not accept itdown the road, but you need to

(14:45):
hear it and really listen to itand engage it.
Engage it, not just give itairtime and then otherwise
you're held captive by yourbeliefs.

J.P. Matychak (14:54):
Right, right, yeah, you almost listen.
You listen for things that goagainst your belief so that you
could make your case more.

Karen Golden-Biddle (15:03):
Exactly.

J.P. Matychak (15:04):
Rather than saying like I could be wrong.
So let me listen here as if Iam and I might hear something
new.

Karen Golden-Biddle (15:09):
Well said, yes, exactly that is powerful.
It's very and then the secondthing that needs to happen is
respectful engagement.
For that, and every one ofthese cases had that and I said
it's more than three dozen casesand basically the respectful
engagement this is from researchby Jane Dutton, ashley Harden

(15:30):
and our Mel Carmely number ofstudies.
That you work, it's empathic,listening, I think, is a way to
think about it.
You work with others in a waythat conveys a sense of presence
, worth and positive regard, andso you treat.
You often have broadstakeholder groups coming
together in the discoveryefforts and you treat everyone

(15:52):
regardless of their position orwhere they stand or those kinds
of things.
You're there for a reason andeveryone has the potential to
bring forward a new idea thatmakes a big difference.
So that's, it's those things,jp, that it's that triad kind of
thing to cycle, the respectfulengagement and confident

(16:16):
humility.

J.P. Matychak (16:17):
Wow, that's great .

Karen Golden-Biddle (16:19):
I like that confident humility.

J.P. Matychak (16:21):
I wrote that down .
That's a great, great phrase.

Karen Golden-Biddle (16:24):
Yeah, it's recently come out and it really
in the midst of my research.
I was like, well, this is, it'sa no.
I've been reading you know,knowing and not knowing and the
balance of those, but thatdidn't capture it as much.
This confident humility is isjust a nice phrase, nice phrase.

Shannon Light (16:44):
But Congress, or that point about you know not
truly listening to the otherside it made me think of and I
know it spoke with about this alittle bit with you about your
comment that stuck with me whenyou were asked about your
experience working at a factoryduring college and you shared

(17:04):
that when organizations havesystems or processes or
behaviors that consideremployees to simply be part of a
machine, with no valuable input, they'll opt out or leave.
Managers should be capitalizingon people's talent, not on how
many of something they canproduce in an hour.
Human beings are more complexand creative than that.
So that point about really nottruly listening, I wonder,

(17:28):
through your research, if youobserved a connection between
the discovery process and whenthat is limited, and retention
of employees and the effectthere.

Karen Golden-Biddle (17:39):
Yeah, so there are other researchers who
demonstrated the connection JimDieter and others who have
demonstrated the connectionbetween the lack of input and
turnover or opting out eventhough they stay in the job,
right I mean.
So there's those voice exit andloyalty is something that
Hirschman talked about a longtime ago.
You can either voicedissatisfaction, exit, or have

(18:01):
loyalty and and just go alongwith things.
Right, but I I want to go tothe summer in the factory,
actually, because I think that'sthe origin of the book years
ago.
Actually, I work summers duringcollege in a factory from 7am
to 3.18pm.
On the dot On the dot, with ashort break and lunch of 20

(18:23):
minutes.
So that's, that's basically.
And I inspected rubber moldedproducts and I was on a line,
not a conveyor line, but a linewhich had our own set for that
day to to inspect and could getmore boxes, and we could get up
and do those things.
And then at break time we wouldtalk.
And there were a number oftimes that we spoke about what.

(18:46):
It's not just input, like weweren't saying what we liked or
didn't like about the place,because it was pretty well run,
I mean, it's clean andeverything.
There wasn't anything, but whatwe did was to say there are a
number of ideas that we have toimprove, how the work is
organized, you know, just avariety of things that we would

(19:08):
talk about and we never got thesense.
We tried once about sharing newideas and it just wasn't
received well, and then we justgot the sense, over and over
again, that they didn't want toreceive it and quite honestly,
as an employee there, I couldn'tfathom I mean literally it was

(19:34):
beyond me that supervisors ormanagers wouldn't want to
understand ways to make thingsbetter, to improve.
So the new ideas, right.
So it's not just input, but itreally was the new ideas for
improvement, not even to trythem.
So I was frustrated by that, Ihave to say.
And then when I went into theresearch the way I do research

(19:58):
is, I go into organizations tostudy about them.
So it's ethnography.
I meant like anthropologists,cultural anthropologists would
study.
So I spent oftentimes a year inan organization or months field
studies to get to know thecontext.
And over the years I waschagrined and puzzled because I

(20:19):
witnessed the failure of toomany well-intentioned change
initiatives.
So these were more than whathappened in the factory.
These were managers who reallywanted to create change and so
they had resources to do it.
They had leadership that waspretty supportive and they
sought employee buy-in forsolutions.

(20:42):
I couldn't explain it.
I mean it wasn't political, itwasn't, there was just something
there.
I mean I didn't have like thewhy around this, okay.
So I was puzzled, I wassurprised.
And then there were businessstories also all the times of
change gone awry.
We don't see too many wherethey've worked as a rule, and

(21:04):
studies of change also suggestonly a limited few create change
, and especially when thatchange involves alteration of
beliefs, assumptions andpractices.
So that's really culturalchange when beliefs need to
change or they do change right,and so only 15% of the efforts

(21:27):
for the cultural change studiessay succeed.
So I have, I sampled on thedependent variable here and
because I wanted to know moreabout these organizations, so I
was puzzled.
So I had an opportunity tostudy one of the few I thought
was going to be successful.

(21:48):
It just had some.
I had a hunch, I didn't knowfor sure and indeed it did.
They really were creating anovel operating model that
delivered innovative results, anew patient care model,
inpatient care model, veryinnovative for the time that
they developed it and wellregarded and nationally known.
I would just say that muchabout it.

(22:10):
And they actually, in thatfield site, helped me discover
the power of discovery.
I mean, it really came tofruition for me in watching and
observing and talking withpeople, looking at their
archives, what they did right,and so that started me on

(22:32):
discovery.
So I wrote this book ultimately,mainly because we're all called
to rethink or reimagine thinkof COVID, other things.
We all face situations where wethink we need to rethink what
we're doing or those kinds ofthings, and this process of

(22:56):
discovery is critical tocreating change.
That involves that thatinvolves rethinking, reimagining
, in particular, cultural change.
Everybody's talking about howdo you create culture change?
Well, you have to rethink andreimagine.
So discovery is critical to thatif we wanna get new practices
and beliefs in a way that'sdesired and embraced by all, or

(23:19):
by many, and I've come to alsobelieve that it's one of the
most important practices we candevelop as humans to thrive in
life, because changes aren'tgonna or upending situations are
not gonna stop, basically.
So how do it's how we respondto them, and with this process

(23:41):
of discovery in our toolkit,we're gonna be much better
positioned to respond creativelyin ways that work for people.
So that's kind of where it is.
So I'm on a campaign, I'mmaking a conscious effort.
The website and so forth is tohelp leaders learn this practice

(24:02):
.
It matters, it's important, andso I don't want it to be
undervalued or underdeveloped orunderutilized any longer.
Yeah, Absolutely.

J.P. Matychak (24:12):
So can you talk a little bit, then, more about
this process and leaders whoread the book or listen here or
visit the website.
What can they do in their workpractices to start down this
path of a discovery process andeverything that they do in the

(24:32):
organizations?

Karen Golden-Biddle (24:34):
So there are a couple things that they
can do.
And then each chapter I wouldsay in the book has actionable
steps for people to take.
So around the respectfulengagement, around the confident
humility, around the discoverycycle.
So each one of those has anumber of them that and it's

(24:55):
their examples, actionable steps, and they always provide an
example of a company that didthat or an individual who did
that.
So I've tried, while I talkorganizational and that's my
level- of analysis, it's alsoindividuals, and sometimes those
are highlighted with that.
So, for example, one of the Iwon't go into detail about this,

(25:17):
but one of the wonderfulexamples is from Boston, the
healthcare for the homelessprogram and Dr Jim O'Connell,
who's a BU physician and who Itaught his case for years in my
class.
He is one of the peopleprofiled who has wonderful
confidence, humility and isrespectfully engages people

(25:41):
everyone and so went through adiscovery process.
So I'll leave the readers tolook for that example in it.
But basically, you can beginwith there's a couple ways and
then let me I can give anotherstory, if that's.
We have time for that.
But take a puzzling.
You can either take a questionthat you don't know the answer

(26:02):
to so this is a way concretelyto start that you genuinely
don't know the answer to, orthat you'd like to imagine
something that you can't thinkof yet, right?
Or you can take a situationthat's already occurred that's
puzzling to you, right?
So you have a choice.
You can either create something, which is what the healthcare

(26:23):
group did.
They wanted to try to create afuture way of delivering care to
patients so that they would bethe go-to destination in 10
years.
So strategic planning isessential for that.
Get out of the room whereeverybody does strategic
planning and go look right, Goseek, so you can do one of those
two things.

(26:43):
Take an existing puzzlingsituation like how could I have
missed that kind of notion?
Or and you want to engage itmore or a question you don't
know the answer to the key isyou don't do what Scott Cook did
at the beginning, you don'texplain it away, you don't, as
tempting as it might be, youdon't ignore it, which we
generally do, or you don't kindof censor it.

(27:05):
You really want to engage it.
You want to amplify thatsituation so that you understand
what puzzles you about it.
So basically, the key is askquestions, Don't problem solve,
Don't look for answers, which iswhat you know.
It's not problem solving.
This starts with a situationand says what don't we know

(27:28):
about it, Not what answers do wehave that could explain it
right.
That's a big difference You'llget a key one, a key one.
Yeah, definitely a key one.
So questions, because theminute you ask questions that
are of a discovery mindset,you're not the prosecuting
attorney here, you know, kind ofright.

(27:49):
You're really trying to saywhat is it that I don't know?
And how do I ask thesequestions?
You've entered genuine doubt,the area of not knowing.
And so then what you do is youthink about the questions that
you have and then you move on toand in well, I could talk about

(28:09):
the clinic in a minute, butthen you move on to how do you
go to the site of action, likethe puzzling.
When you look at that puzzlingsituation closer, what situation
does it call in mind?
What location or what do youneed to revisit?
And so I use the metaphor ofwalk with.
How do you walk with thesituation?

(28:32):
Yeah, you've got cook it intoit walked with the customers,
the healthcare system walkedwith patients literally to be
able to see what they couldn'tsee.
So we're trying to get out andsee what we don't see, and
that's the discovery piece.
That may be obvious to others,right, it may.

(28:53):
You may say how could they notsee that?
But it's not obvious to thepeople inside, and that's the
big thing.
So that's one, a simpler one andI've actually tried this with
undergrad and graduate studentsis in execs keep a surprise
journal.
There's been a couple articlesabout it in Fast Company and I

(29:16):
think I mentioned earlier.
Experience teaches us bysurprise.
So what is it that we learn?
And discover new right.
So if surprise is the entree todiscovery, then keeping a
surprise journal helps us getadept at moving into surprise
and embracing it, or savoring it, as Cook talked about, versus

(29:40):
backing off from it.
Now, you can't do that withevery surprise, obviously, but
the ones that are upending andthat you really want to look
more at, that's worth it.
So those are a couple ways tothink about how you go about.
There are others too.
I mean, I mentioned askquestions from a discovery

(30:03):
mindset.
The other would be, I guess,what I've seen is, in all these
cases, people walked into theunknown, the genuine note, the
unknown, genuine doubt together.
They walked with someone elseor with others, and so every one

(30:23):
of these is a group effort, abroad stakeholder effort, or if
not, there's maybe one personwho had the surprise, they
reached out immediately toothers when it was the questions
and trying to figure out whatwas going on so that they could

(30:45):
better understand.
They went to the place wherethe difficulties were occurring,
and so those are some keypieces.
I would say what we could doconcretely tomorrow.
I think students for studentsare you.

Shannon Light (31:02):
It's just actually fantastic.
They're right in my mind.

Karen Golden-Biddle (31:06):
So the students were puzzled by the
surprise journal when I had themdo it, but then they started to
get into it as they started toexplore some of the questions
about it.
I think, probably with students,one of the key things they've
told me actually, because Itried out these ideas with
evening MBA, pemba students anddaytime MBA and then undergrad

(31:29):
students as well and they talkedabout the importance of knowing
what genuine doubt was and thathow it's different from
self-doubt, because evendoctoral students will go into
self-doubt like something'swrong with me, that I don't know
this, you know, especially if aparticular faculty member is

(31:52):
really harsh about whatever.
You don't know this and itcould have been.
So you go back, you're back onyour heels and basically
generative doubt says you can,you're really asking to doubt
your beliefs or your ideas oryour tools or your methods, but
you're not to self-doubtyourself, and artists have this

(32:15):
kind of issue as well.
So that's really a criticalpiece, that it's genuine doubt,
meaning it's sincere.
Something is upended for youbut you don't move it.
It's not that it's not personal, but you don't move it to
question your own self with this, and that's a critical

(32:37):
difference, especially for newstudents in the room.

J.P. Matychak (32:44):
Now, you wrote this book to be a guide in a lot
of ways, which is importantbecause I mean, a lot of people
talk about here's anotherresearch article or whatnot, but
where does it apply to me?
And so how, as you thoughtabout writing this book, how do

(33:07):
you want leaders to use the bookand what other tools are you
making available to leaders tohelp them go on this discovery
journey?

Karen Golden-Biddle (33:16):
Right.
Well, one of the proudestmoments actually was kind of a
fun surprise when Adam Grantendorsed the book and he called
this an actionable andaccessible resource for leaders.
That was the highest compliment.
I worked hard.
I actually had a coach to helpme write this, so he would read

(33:37):
my drafts, and what I wanted todo was make it accessible.
I had been used to academicwriting and I was good at it.
I taught others how to do it.

J.P. Matychak (33:46):
Exactly, that's exactly right.

Karen Golden-Biddle (33:49):
And so I had to not unlearn that, but I
had to quote, discover orwhatever, cultivate a new way of
writing that was still me andmy voice, and that took a few
years to be honest about it tobe able to do that, and so I'm
pleased that the book has reallyactionable, concrete things to

(34:12):
do.
I also have created and thiswon't be the end of it a website
.
I can do the pitch, I think,right now.

J.P. Matychak (34:19):
Yeah, go for it.

Karen Golden-Biddle (34:20):
It's a mouthful, but it's my name Karen
golden, hyphen Biddle, com andwith the hyphen yes, although I
think we can direct it if it'snot.
But even and on, there thereare, and there's a start to this
.
There's a wonderful quiz to godo now.
That is a discovery quiz, soyou can take that and you'll get

(34:42):
results and I'll share.
Then You'll get your immediateresult and then I will share the
aggregate results, keepingeverything anonymous, but the
aggregate results when in a few,a couple months from now On,
there will be that.
So that's one of the diagnostictools.
There will be more.
There's going to be stories,discover stories.

(35:03):
There will be curricula forfaculty to teach each discovery
in the classroom, so there's apiece around that and then a
discussion guide for people whowant to read it and Talk about
it in a group kind of thing.
And there will be otherarticles.
I'm constantly looking atarticles right now that that are

(35:25):
able to that, a complement thisand help expand it, and so I
will either post those or giveresources about that.
So I look at this as adiscovery Warehouse kind of
notion or what, what, that haseverything in there and of
course, I'm available to consultwith people who want to develop

(35:47):
the practice of discovery, andso I'd like to work with groups
of people or train people inorganizations so that they can
do new Discovery in theirorganizations.
So that's wow, that's fantastic.
Thank you, yes, I'm prettyexcited about it.

J.P. Matychak (36:05):
Should be.
Yeah, absolutely right,absolutely Well, it's Shannon.
You have any other questionsyou want to cover?
I mean, this has beenabsolutely fascinating.
No, that was, that waseverything from for me, yeah so
let's close out with one sort ofFinal thought from you.
As far as when a leader, at anylevel you know so I whatever

(36:31):
you know piece of advice orwhatever from any level of a
leader in the organization, youknow what is when they read this
book.
What is the, what is the onething, that one takeaway that
you hope that everybody whoreads it walks away Knowing.

Karen Golden-Biddle (36:48):
I can do this Seriously.
I can cultivate the practice ofdiscovery.
I now see how that's possiblefor me to do and I see why it's
important for me to do and howit will help me, my community
and my organizations.
Wow, powerful.

J.P. Matychak (37:08):
I like that, I really do like that.
Truly a must read for anyleader.
Karen, thank you for spendingtime with us and talking about
your new book.

Karen Golden-Biddle (37:18):
Oh thank you, it's been a joy.

J.P. Matychak (37:20):
Karen Golden-Biddle, Professor of
Merit of Management andorganizations at Boston
University.
Question of School of Businessand the author of the new book
the untapped power of discoveryhow to create change that
inspires a better future,available now.

Karen Golden-Biddle (37:35):
Pre-order now it's out February 27

J.P. Matychak (37:39):
You can pre-order now on Amazon, I believe I saw
correctly, and we'll include alink in the show notes as well
on the site, as well as A linkto your website, karen golden-b
iddle.
com.
So that will wrap it up forthis episode of the Insights at
Questrom podcast.
For more information about thisshow, our previous shows and

(38:02):
additional insights fromquestion faculty, visit us at
insights.
bu.
edu For Shannon light.
I'm JP Matychak.
So long.
Advertise With Us

Popular Podcasts

Crime Junkie

Crime Junkie

Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.

24/7 News: The Latest

24/7 News: The Latest

The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.

Stuff You Should Know

Stuff You Should Know

If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.

Music, radio and podcasts, all free. Listen online or download the iHeart App.

Connect

© 2025 iHeartMedia, Inc.