November 11, 2024 • 39 mins
Is the home inspection industry on the brink of a major transformation by 2025? Discover how potential interest rate reductions and increased home building could set the stage for a surge in demand for inspections, as we share our insights into the emerging trends and shifting market conditions. With inventory levels echoing those of 2019, we consider the balance between buyers and available homes and ponder whether the industry will see full stabilization by 2027. Join us as we explore why 2025 might just be the year that marks significant progress for home inspectors.
Artificial intelligence is shaking things up across industries, but what does that mean for the world of home inspections? In this episode, we tackle the controversial question: Will AI replace our trusted human inspectors? Hear our thoughts on how AI can revolutionize the industry by automating tedious tasks like report writing and defect identification, all while enhancing customer experiences. We argue that this technological shift is an opportunity for inspectors to wield advanced tools, safeguarding the profession against becoming a low-cost, commoditized service.
What role do increasing regulatory requirements play in shaping the future of home inspections? We delve into legislative changes in states like Massachusetts and Florida and explore their impact on mandatory inspections. Hear tales of unexpected inspection challenges and gain insights into the booming demand for commercial property inspections, driven by a shortage of engineers. As we close the chapter, we reflect on the irreplaceable value of human inspectors despite the growth of remote technologies, affirming that the nuanced expertise of on-site evaluations remains a cornerstone of the industry.
Check out our home inspection app at www.inspectortoolbelt.com
Need a home inspection website? See samples of our website at www.inspectortoolbelt.com/home-inspection-websites
*The views and opinions expressed in this podcast, and the guests on it, do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of Inspector Toolbelt and its associates.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is Inspector Toolbath Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Really good to have you back on the show there, bin,
how are you?
Yeah doing good, ian.
How are you?
Hey, not bad.
You know, sometimes we only seeyou if there's like a like when
we do the inspection newsepisodes or we do our quarterly
market outlooks and stuff likethis.
So it's kind of nice to haveyou on just a regular episode.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, it is nice.
I was actually taking a look attrying to keep up with all the
episodes that you're doing and Iwas like man, I wouldn't mind
being on a little more often.
So it's nice to have me atleast have a slightly different
perspective on things.
Yeah, an outsider.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, an outlier, is that, what an outlier is
Outsider.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I mean, I could be an outlier too.
I don't know, but I guess youcan tell me after the episode.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I feel like they're almost synonymous words in some
context.
Anyways, I'm digressing again.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Anonymous or synonymous.
Yes, okay, all of the above.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This episode we're talking about ADD in the home
inspection industry.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
We're using a lot of words here now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yes, okay, bigger words and smaller words.
Smaller words make my brainsound big.
Big words make brain soundsmall.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
All right, now that we have maximum credibility,
let's continue with the rest ofthe episode.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So I was thinking, with 2025 coming up, this would
be a good episode because I'dlike to try to predict the
future when it comes to what'scoming up next year.
So, before we do our Q1 marketoutlook and all this other stuff
in January, I wanted to stopand say what do we think 2025 is
going to look like for the homeinspection industry?
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
Hopefully, you have some ofyour own predictions, bi, and I
have some of mine.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, I'm curious to see what you got, because I
think it's going to be a bigyear for home inspection, not
maybe volume-wise like boomingbusiness, but I think is
continuing going to continue tochange.
But let's, let's see what yougot yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So, first of all, I think there's going to be a
singularity that happenssomewhere in may and the
universe gets sucked into it, uh, but before that I'm just
kidding watch that now happen.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Sorry, I didn't have my foil hat around here anywhere
yet.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Everybody's listening in today going.
What in the world is wrong withthese guys today?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
It's been a long week .
Just start over, guys.
Just start over.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, we should just start over.
It's been a long week, folks,we've all had those.
You start mumbling on yourThursday inspection.
That's us.
So here's some of mypredictions, and some of them
are based on just stuff thatI've seen.
Some of them are based on,basically economists have said
(02:53):
some things are going to happen.
Here's my first prediction.
First of all, I think there'sgoing to be an increased demand
for home inspections, not a hugeone, but more than this year.
I think we're going to finallystart to see better recovery.
This year was a recovery year.
2024.
2025, I think we're going tosee better recovery, and here's
(03:15):
the reasons why Home building isstill up.
I also think that interestrates are still going to fall to
a certain extent, and I thinkit's been long enough that
people that wanted to move towait for the market to go down
have just finally hit the pointwhere they're like, oh, it's not
going to get any better, let'sjust move.
I'm seeing a lot of that happenin the market.
(03:36):
Do you agree with that or not?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I do agree with that.
I think the whole discussionaround the real estate market
inventory is also easingslightly.
It seems, I know, like locallythat is the case and I think
that people are kind of justgetting I don't know if you said
this or not, sorry, but peopleare just kind of getting used to
the status quo, you know.
(03:59):
So it's not such a big jumpanymore.
They're kind of getting used tothe deeper water and they know
what they're getting into.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, and I think we're saying the same thing in
different ways.
You know, when you went from2020 to 2023 and you had a house
that was $200,000 and now allof a sudden it's $350,000,
that's a big jump, hard pill toswallow.
And then when interest rates gofrom for some people, 2.8% to
(04:29):
7.5% or whatever anybody wasgetting at certain periods of
time yeah, that's a big leap,but I think status quo people
are getting used to that, as youput it.
I think that's a good way toput it.
I'm starting to see people justaround me even say things like
that Like it's not, the pricesaren't going to get any lower.
Let's go buy a house, and I'vealso noticed in my own market
(04:54):
price drops.
So, even though people aregoing back out and buying houses
, sellers are still putting morehouses on the market than they
were just a year ago.
A matter of fact, I was justreading an article in Forbes
that said houses are enteringthe market.
There's not enough inventorystill.
That's still a problem, buthouses are starting to enter the
market at the same rate thatthey were in like 2019.
(05:16):
So it'll still take a while forthe market to catch up.
Still more buyers than there arehouses we're probably looking
at, quote unquote normal market2027, I'm thinking.
But I think we're gonna see alot better market in 2025 than
we did even this year, and thisyear was the first non stinky
year.
2023 was awful, mm-hmm.
(05:39):
2024, we did okay.
Now 2025 it'll.
It'll be a.
It'll be better than this yearand a marked improvement, in my
opinion.
So cool.
Yeah, sounds good do you haveany opinions, or would you
predictions, or you want me togo into my second one?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
no, let's, let's go next.
What's next?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
all right.
Prediction number two risingadoption of technology and home
inspections, or a decrease inadoption Cryptic.
Here's the thing I think nextyear is going to be a pivotal
year for us in home inspections.
Ai has been around for a yearnow beyond, yeah, but ChatGPT,
(06:20):
openai they came out lastNovember, I believe, right
Somewhere around that time.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Either way, I think it's longer than that.
But yeah, I think it's-.
Is it two years?
Yeah, I think it startedgetting adopted a bit wider
around a year, where you'd likehave it come up in conversation
and know people that are usingit.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, so, however long it's been, we're kind of
hitting a point where they'restarting to talk about AGI,
which we're not going to getinto that.
You know that's unimportant forthis discussion.
The problem is we as anindustry have not adopted it
enough yet, and if we don'tadopt technology like artificial
(06:57):
intelligence and other things,it's going to get ahead of us.
Um, it's going to get ahead ofus and instead of us embracing
it and owning our industry withit, other people in other
industries will embrace it andpush us out.
We really have a choice rightnow, and I'm not talking about
you know.
There's guys sitting there intheir truck right now listening
to those calls.
I use AI all the time.
I'm typing run the chat, chat,chat, chat, chat, gpt for an
(07:21):
email right now.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about actuallyutilizing that to push our
industry forward.
You did something interestingone day a while back, so our app
is actually one of only acouple of apps that has
artificial intelligence builtinto it.
You need help writing a comment, all this other stuff, and I've
(07:41):
even heard home inspectors say,well, I wouldn't use anything
with artificial intelligence init.
I'm like, okay, that's aproblem Because you pushed a
picture into ChatGPT.
One day you pulled it from aninspection forum and you popped
it into ChatGPT.
And what did you do?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, so this has been interesting.
I've done it with every singlenew model that ChatGPT has come
out with that can accept photosand basically what I tell
ChatGPT is you know you're ahome inspector in this, in this
place.
You're working in this sectionof your report on this item and
this is a photo please identifyany you know defects and produce
(08:23):
a narrative.
Any you know, uh, defects andproduce a narrative.
Um, the first few models it waskind of all over the place,
super generic, you know, um,nothing that you could really
put in a report.
But the latest models thatthey've just come out with the
like the o1 preview, um, wow, uh, pretty amazing.
So I took a picture, I think itwas, of a ceiling with some
(08:48):
water damage on it.
I didn't really tell it whereit was, I just took a picture of
it and it came back with a verydetailed narrative that I then
sent to you and you're like, oh,wow, cool, I know what your
first impression was, but it waspretty complete.
The other one was of a deck, um, where there was a very
convoluted construction to likethe you know the how the stairs
(09:13):
were attached to the deck.
There were some extra boards inthere and stuff.
Structurally that wasn't right.
And again it nailed thenarrative.
It got it down.
I sent that one to you too, soI don't know as a home inspector
, could you tell right away thatit was taken from AI or what
were your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So when you sent me that, I'm like it can't be that
good.
So I actually took otherpictures and I started uploading
it and like, okay, here's mynarrative, so I know what's
going on in this picture.
So I put the picture in andsome of it was relatively
complex, like picture of partsof my boiler and pictures of
things up close and far away.
And once in a while I'll belike, can you give me context?
(09:53):
And it's like, yeah, because Ijust sent you this big gray
screen and you don't know thatas a picture of concrete.
But it got really exact and itwrote almost exactly my
narratives and it didn't.
It didn't have access to mynarratives.
It was recognizing defects andputting them in there.
So when I tell this to homeinspectors, they kind of freak
(10:17):
out and they're like we're goingto be out of a job.
Here's the problem, here's thething we're not going to be out
of a job.
This is going to make our jobnot easier.
It's going to make it so that,just like electronic reports,
like half my inspection iswriting the report.
When we're writing reports byhand, now we offer electronic
reports.
Did that take away our industry?
(10:38):
No, I remember when we came upwith electronic reports.
People were like so now anybodycan take pictures, put it in
there and write something aboutit.
It's like yeah, but you stillneed the home inspector.
And it elevated our industry,made it better and now we market
our reports.
This is going to be that way andI see it going a lot of
different ways.
So I see like AI models whereyou can take pictures.
(11:00):
The person goes in and looks atthe house and they can keep
track of.
You know which house they werelooking at and the concerns they
have.
Ai kind of gives them a goodidea and then a home inspector
can go and use that and say, oh,here's their five major
concerns.
Okay, they go in and they stilldo their whole inspection.
Then AI is going to beupselling us because they're
like oh man, that's an old sewerpipe, you really should get
(11:22):
that looked at.
Of like oh man, that's an oldsewer pipe, you really should
get that looked at.
It takes away the element ofthe agent being like oh no,
everybody's house looks likethat.
Ai is going to be like yeah, no, that doesn't look good, man,
you should have a home inspectorput his own eyes on that.
It's going to be an incrediblemarketing tool and report
writing tool, but it won't be Ifwe don't embrace it.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
If we don't own it, somebody else will Exactly, and
that's the problem.
So, yeah, I agree with you 100%, because other guys are moving
into our industry.
Just earlier in the week I waslooking at a company.
I wish I could remember theirname.
They basically, it seems likethey're making use of publicly
(12:02):
available information to be ableto produce sort of a mini
report for an address, you know,based on the environmental
situation or information theyhave historically about the
property.
And they're actually charging Ithink it was $99 for this
report.
You know, now that is not comingfrom a company that was started
or has home inspectors bestinterests at heart, so they're
(12:26):
looking to go the same directionthat everybody else is.
So if somebody else comes upwith a newfangled AI tool that
does this, you know, here you go, take the tool, walk around
your house, do a home inspectionand it's nailing.
Let's say it's nailing like 50%of the stuff.
It's nailing like 50% of thestuff.
If that company does not havethe best you know is not aligned
(12:49):
with the home inspectionindustry, they're going to look
to profit off of that data forthemselves or commoditize the
home inspector and say, hey,here's a lead, we'll pay you
whatever 200 bucks to come anddo the inspection.
That's the direction we do notwant that to go.
We want to be able to leveragethose tools for ourselves so
that home inspectors can getmore accurate, quicker, be able
(13:09):
to offer richer services becauseof the technology.
But that means that we got toown it.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah.
So I mean, think about wherethese things could go.
I mean you could hypotheticallyhave cool features in your home
inspection report where theclient can ask questions, like
they could have with chat GPT.
Like you put in a defectbaluster spacings were too wide
so the client can just startasking questions to the report.
Hey, what should be a properbaluster spacing?
What makes these not wideenough?
(13:35):
What's a baluster?
Are they?
Do they look high enough?
You know, in New York state didmy home inspector take the
proper whatever, I don't know,just asking questions about the
defects.
Man, that would be incredible.
But we, like you said, we haveto own it.
If we don't own it, there'sgoing to be companies like
Inspectify and I pick on them alot on this show.
(13:55):
This is my personal opinion,does not reflect the views and
opinions of Inspector Toolbelt,yada, yada, yada.
I think that whole businessmodel is stinky.
So now you're going to have acompany, some tech guy from
wherever going hey guys, I heardI could make a quick buck on
home inspection.
So he gets all this seedfunding and he goes and he
starts building these AI tools,like you said.
(14:18):
Hey, yeah, carry this aroundyour house, they'll do almost a
full home inspection, and thenwhat they're going to do is
they're going to get we're goingto turn into the field
inspection industry where youget some guy just doing it on
the weekends, part-time, andthey give you $50 to go and
verify the information in thereport, maybe take a few more
pictures.
That's what will happen if wedon't own it.
And I see so many guys soafraid of the technology In fact
(14:42):
, I'm not going to say who.
It's.
Another software, greatsoftware, but I remember the
owner saying that they didn'twant to embrace artificial
intelligence, ai, because theusers didn't want it.
And I'm like all that is isburying your head in the sand.
We want it to make inspectorsmore money, and burying our head
(15:03):
in the sand is going to do theopposite of that.
Someone else is going to takeit.
We need to own it so that whenpeople want AI for a home
inspection, it's ours.
We own it as an industrybecause, unfortunately, it's
coming, and it's coming fasterthan I expected it.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, I agree 100%.
So it's really the thinking ofwhen we talk about AI.
Oh well, you know, I, I, Idon't need that stuff.
I'm responsible for what's inmy report and yes, you are.
But these, these are tools thatyou can use, and if you're not
going to use them, it's kind of,I mean, we go from paper, from
from the days of pen and paper,to software.
Uh, you know, I would imagine Iwasn't around then.
(15:40):
I would imagine there was a lotof resistance to that whole
idea.
But look where we are now.
If you didn't keep up with thetimes, you're back using pen and
paper.
You're out of business.
So, yeah, ai is just that we'regoing to have to jump on board
or somebody's going to beat usto the punch.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, and just so you guys know how old I am, I
started and I remember these oldguys telling me you will never
get anyone to take an electronicreport.
I'm walking around with a PalmPilot, you know, just making
notes and adding stuff, andthey're like you are such an
idiot, you'll never make it.
And then those guys ended upgoing out of business all of
(16:22):
them and I'm not going to saywho they were, but there was a
group of inspectors that kind ofowned my area and it wasn't
long maybe four, maybe fiveyears and then all of a sudden
everybody's offering electronicreports.
I was one of the first ones.
I remember agents always sayingthey're like what in the world
are you doing?
Those guys are out of business.
We don't want to go that way,especially if we're still in our
(16:43):
prime working ages, if we're 30, 40, 50 years old and we're
like I'm not touching AI man,that's kind of early to get
pushed off to the side.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, no, very, very true.
I share your views of that 100%, and I think you and I talk a
lot about AI and how to leverageit, and I think we've got some
cool ideas, because, at the endof the day, we're always how can
we bring it back to the homeinspector, whether it's
something used by someone else,whether it's something used in
(17:16):
an app like how do we make thehome inspector part of either
that funnel or how do we use itto enrich their services that
they're offering?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I think even people who are anti-AI are
really going to love some of thestuff that we have coming out.
It's going to be some prettysick stuff, but anyways.
Prediction number three do youhave any predictions yet or do
you want me to keep?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
going.
No, no, you go man.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
All right.
I think there's going to beincreased regulatory
requirements and standardscoming up.
We've been talking a lot aboutMassachusetts and some other
states.
Massachusetts, because it wasthe first one introduced a bill
and it doesn't matter if thesebills go through or not.
One doesn't go through andpeople are like, oh, I knew it
was going to go through.
It doesn't matter, it justmeans that it's coming and
(18:08):
there's someone pushing for it.
Then it's going to just getpackaged up with a different
bill and different thing thatgoes forward.
The whole skipping homeinspection things that happened
from 2020 to 2022 and even stillinto now has pushed governments
to regulatory AHJs and allthose things to push for home
inspections because it wascosting them money.
(18:30):
Politicians, constituents wereangry.
You had local courts and stufflike that getting inundated with
cases.
Property values went down, taxvalues went down in some cases.
When it costs people money,they're going to make new laws.
So I think that's coming.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, here in Florida we allknow the uh, the home, the
insurance industry has alreadybeen mandating some basic
reporting requirements, you knowto be for insurability, um.
But interestingly, in the wakeof the rising frequency of
disasters, hurricanes comingthrough, there is now actually
(19:11):
pending legislation, even in thestate of Florida, from a
government point of view, toenforce at least some basic
level inspections.
You know when a home exchangesor changes hands.
So yeah, it is interesting tosee the different things driving
those trends.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, and it's coming , whether we like it or not.
I've said it in previouspodcasts I am all for requiring
the home inspection contingencyto be in the agreement, but not
requiring the home inspectionOnce.
You require the home inspectionnow it's government regulated
and it's kind of like gettingthe town code enforcer and
(19:47):
that's just.
I'm sorry they stink.
It's not going to do anybodyany good.
It's not going to helpconsumers or an industry.
Yeah no-transcript, but thereare a lot of places talking
(20:30):
about it right now and evenmunicipalities, so I mentioned
AHJs.
So you're going to have localmunicipalities, like there's
ones around me, that requirecertain inspections when you buy
a house and it really kind ofstinks, like there's one AHJ
near me probably.
Yeah, you can't upsell a septicinspection as a home inspector
(21:01):
because they're like, well, wealready got one, we had to pay
the town for it, and then thatperson moves in and, you know,
poo is backing up in their house.
So all we did was keep a homeinspector from making money and
doing a good job and thehomeowner from getting a good
service.
That's what I'm worried about.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, talking about poo backing up into our house,
there was a post the other dayon the Nachi forum I don't know
if you saw it or not, but thisguy was inspecting a house where
they had a grinder pump thathad a vent pipe attached to it
as well, and I guess the pipethat went to the sewer from the
(21:40):
grinder got blocked, so it'sliterally pumping the stuff out
the roof vent.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Oh, no, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
It's absolutely disgusting, but it's like the
whole roof and it's been goingon for a while.
You just see these stains downthe roof.
It's so disgusting.
Oh man, it's the number twoproblem in the inspection
industry right there.
Oh my goodness, yeah, that wascrazy.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
The stuff you guys see on inspections, it's
unbelievable yeah, I would haveloved to have written that up.
I have to keep my snarkinessand my poo jokes to myself when
I write a report yeah, so if yougo to that thread, you know, be
warned.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Obviously you know the direction it's gonna to go.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Parental guidance suggested Exactly.
Oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
One of my next predictions and I keep saying
this, I said this all year and Isaid this all last year and it
has come true there's going tobe more growth in the commercial
property inspection industry.
And here's my reasons why, andI've talked to Nick personally
about this even just recently.
Number one engineers areletting go of the industry.
(22:51):
So I don't know.
Well, you and I met with acouple of engineering firms
actually, and they even saidthey're having a hard time
getting engineers in the fieldbecause there's less people to
hire.
So what they're doing isthey're a hard time getting
engineers in the field becausethere's less people to hire.
So what they're doing isthey're trying to get people out
in the field to do the datacollection and then they do the
actual engineering work.
So that's creating a problemwhen you purchase a commercial
(23:14):
property, trying to findengineers who predominantly own
that industry for decades tocome in and do an inspection,
who predominantly own thatindustry for decades, to come in
and do an inspection, and thenmost people, they hire a
contractor, even the bestcommercial contractor they're
not going to write a greatreport.
So we as an industry have madesome incredible inroads, we are
starting to own it, and I think2025, all the way into 2030, are
(23:39):
going to be the golden years ofcommercial property inspections
, just like the early 2000s were, in my opinion, the golden
years of home inspections.
It was just like.
I mean, it was just a greattime and then people muscled
into our industry.
I think the next five years,starting next year, is going to
be just the golden age, if we'rethinking about commercial
(24:01):
inspections.
Oh man, now is the time.
Other people have paved the wayfor you Get in there, get it
done before the low ballers getin there.
And they are starting to get inthere, but it's usually the
$1,000 and under property.
So when you're doing a littlepizza shop or a four family or
something like that, they're notlow balling these shopping
(24:23):
malls.
They're not low ball.
They're not low balling theseshopping malls.
They're not low balling thesehotels.
So now's the time.
It's really going to be a goodtime.
I think yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, it's been really nice to see the activity
around the CCPAA, theassociation that's been set up
for commercial propertyinspectors, all the education
going into that.
It really is a is a great space.
But you know to what you weresaying on on complexity, are we
talking about specializedservices that you can give that
(24:55):
are unique to commercialproperties specialized,
specialized services Um, so like, um, cost of cures.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's going to be something that's a specialized
service to commercial propertyinspections, which we don't know
.
I'm inspection industry.
We're like, oh, my goodness,the cost of cure.
But in commercial, that's like,yeah, we need that.
And um, ccpia does a greatcourse on that.
I think Lance Kaufman teachesthat one.
Um, uh, Rob Klaus, I think,also teaches a version of it,
right, but there's a whole lotopen to us in the commercial
(25:28):
inspection industry that isn'tavailable in the home inspection
industry.
So like, right now we're doingcommercial septic inspections
whole different beast, a lot offun, great money.
So yeah, there's a lot ofspecialty services that are open
to us in the commercialinspection industry.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Okay, no perfect.
I glanced at my notes and Ilooked at the wrong point.
But yeah, I'm a hundred percenton board with that.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Um, you know it's funny too.
We talked about chat GPTearlier and so I decided to ask
chat GPT I'm like you know,here's some of the things I
think and all this other stuff.
Chat GPT I'm like you know,here's some of the things I
think and all this other stuff.
Give me some points that youthink would happen in our
industry, and specifically 2025.
I don't know if I agree with it, but I see where it's coming
from.
First one that I mentioned hereis expanding use of remote and
(26:21):
virtual inspections.
That one made my stomach alittle tight in a knot.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of big players that
really want the industry to goin that direction, and I think
that may be where it's comingfrom, because I mean, look,
chatgpt learns from data that isalready out there and published
, and we know that there's somebig guys and big forces out
there that would love to do that, so maybe that's where it's
(26:52):
thinking that technology isready for that.
I share the view where youcan't replace a home inspector.
You guys are licensed,certified, all the stuff that
you see from day to day, theseremote inspections.
I think there's some.
Wasn't there some legislationaround some states that actually
(27:12):
do not permit that to be doneat all?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, they require it to be on site, and that's one
of the reasons why I don't agreewith it.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Right, right.
But like you, I can understandwhere it's coming from, because
there's some technologycompanies that would love to
make that a thing, but I don'tsee it happening in practice.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
So here's some things that I think are farther down
the road.
So we're seeing the beginningsof certain technology of not
(27:54):
just uploading a photo and tellswhat's in the photo, but actual
motion in motion video tell youwhat's going on.
So there's a sewer camera appthat you can buy and as you push
the sewer and I haven't triedit, I don't know if it works,
but the fact that it existsmakes you think about what's
going to come up so you can pushthe camera down the sewer line
and it'll start highlightingthings in the sewer line and
identifying them.
So it'll highlight some rootsoff to the side.
It's kind of fun to watch.
(28:14):
Obviously, they give it aperfect scenario.
When you're in a pipe with abunch of turds and black water
and mud.
You know it's going to be a lotharder for it to see, but it
starts highlighting things likeit'll just make this thing glow
off to the right and I'll saythis is root intrusion, and then
I'll highlight a crack thatcould barely be seen.
So it looks like there might bea crack in this pipe and that's
(28:36):
pretty insane.
It's not like I upload apicture and ask ChatGPT to tell
me what it sees and write areport.
It's in real time, as I'mlooking at things, identifying
issues.
Here's the problem, though, forthem, and the good thing for us
.
We're irreplaceable, becauseyou know what a person walking
(28:57):
around with a camera can't do itcan't turn on the heating unit,
so somebody needs to do that.
It can't show the homeowner howto use the heating unit and it
can't find all the defects, andexamples of it are.
Who's going to climb up intothe attic on the far side and
then slip up the chimney chaseto find the mold issue?
(29:17):
You still need to hire somebodyto go in and get into these
places.
But in addition to that, I'mthinking about a specific
inspection where a bunch ofpeople had inspected it and it
was, like you know, fell throughfor different reasons financing
and they were selling it only acouple of years after they
bought it, and all these peoplehad inspected it.
And I'm not saying that I'mamazing or anything, but there's
(29:40):
one wall had all these shelveson it.
So I went behind the wall,behind the shelves, looked at
the wall and noticed that therewas a belly in the wall from bad
grading.
On the outside it was CMU, soconcrete block, and it ended up
costing like eight grand torepair, which I thought was too
cheap, but anyways differentstory I thought it was too cheap
, but anyways.
Different story.
(30:00):
You can't walk around the houseand hold up an iPad and take
video and it say, hey, there'slikely a belly behind that wall.
You can't replace us.
There's lots of differentcircumstances where if you
didn't hire a home inspector,you wouldn't have gotten that
information.
Holding up an app and takingpictures of those things are two
(30:22):
different things.
But you know what it does helpwith.
It kind of helps with.
Okay, you know, make sure Ididn't miss anything.
Let me walk through the houseand I'll identify these things.
Makes a nice 3D model of thehouse like a Matterport or
something.
That's where that stuff isheaded and then I can go through
and do my inspection.
My client gets a is headed andthen I can go through and do my
(30:43):
inspection.
My client gets a better productand then they still get me.
I'm going to charge extra forthat.
It's not going to be a five,six $700 inspection.
It's going to be a $1,500inspection.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
You know it's going to be a $2,000 inspection
(31:34):
no-transcript much bigger, andour engineers were sitting in a
central location, or from homeor from wherever, and they were
just evaluating the results and,you know, adding stuff, and it
allowed us to scale our programout quite a bit.
Is it possible that somethingsimilar could end up if we, if
(31:56):
we have software that's smartenough?
Could that be a direction thehome inspection industry can go
in, that we can capitalize on,or is that unlikely to go in
that direction?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I think that be a direction the home inspection
industry can go in that we cancapitalize on.
Or is that unlikely to go inthat direction and take video
and you can just say, hey, man,turn to the right, turn to the
left, look up, climb up in theattic and then it writes the
(32:27):
report for you?
I think a lot's going to getmissed.
I think that business model isgoing to be tried, but I don't
think the average homeowner isgoing to want it.
No matter how much you trainthe market, that's not what
they're going to want.
They're going to want well,who's on the other end of this
virtual inspection?
Why can't he be here?
I'll pay extra for that.
(32:48):
Now, are there going to be thecheapskates out there that want
the virtual inspections?
Sure, yeah, but that's notgoing to be any different than
the $199 home inspectors that wehave out there.
So I don't think it's going tochange the dynamic of our
industry a whole lot.
I think cheaper home inspectorswill try to do that and just do,
to be perfectly frank, junkyvirtual inspections, and I think
(33:12):
the really good guys are goingto use it as a tool instead of
as a replacement.
And that's where taking backour industry.
Taking a hold of it andownership of it is a big
difference.
If it becomes a tool on ourtool belt instead of our
replacement, that's a beautifulthing.
If it becomes a replacement,it's just going to hurt
everybody.
There's going to be so manyjunky inspections out there that
(33:35):
are just going to hurt peoplethat they're going to make
legislation to say no.
It has to be a person in person.
You know it.
And if it does replace us, it'sso far into the future most of
us will be retired that arelistening yeah, well, it is
interesting, uh, to talk about,because I think what you said is
is accurate.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
You'll see, you'll see tiers in the industry,
you'll have different levels ofservices.
You'll have the bottom feederguys who are offering all these
things for basically awalkthrough and you can get,
like I said, that 99 report thatreally doesn't tell you
anything other than what youcould look up through google or
something.
Um, but yeah, there will bepeople who will try it, which
will, but but then it would be acase of pivoting with that
(34:17):
technology on your side tocontinue offering the premium
services that home inspectors do.
But yeah, it is interesting tothink about it at least and see
how these things.
We won't be surprised when theyshow up, because they will.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
And we're kind of getting a little bit off into
the wave future here.
This isn't 2025 stuff.
So that's why I said I don'tagree with what ChatGPT is
saying here Poor timeframe,they're off, yeah.
The one thing I did agree withis growth in 11th month warranty
inspections, and the reason Ido believe that is building is
up.
So all this year they've beenbuilding.
(34:52):
So guess when you get the 11thmonth warranty inspections at 11
months after, which is going tobe all through 2025.
So we had quite a few housesbuilt and I think that's going
to be a little bit of a boon.
I don't think it's going to be ahuge one.
I do get a lot of feedback withguys saying they have a hard
time marketing it and it doesseem to be pretty regional.
(35:15):
And it does seem to be prettyregional Like some regions
accept it really readily andothers don't.
But I still think there's somepotential there for it to have a
little bit of a boost there.
But the last thing I want tomention is I did ask AI.
See, as we talked about AI, I'mlike I feel like we should ask
AI about itself, and so this isthe last thing that I mentioned.
(35:41):
It says AI will revolutionizethe home inspection process in
2025.
And, interestingly, it broughtout three points enhanced
diagnostics so it's seeingitself not as replacing the home
inspector, but as being adiagnostic tool, and that's the
way I would prefer to see it asnot as a replacement, but a
diagnostic tool.
(36:01):
A real time reporting.
I think that will definitely besomething good, and we have
we're working on something forthat to make the reporting time
just like crazy fast, as fast asyou can inspect and think it's
going to happen.
And I'm not talking aboutmicrochips in our brains,
Although how cool would that be?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, I already told you I don't want to know what's
going on in your brain ever.
Yeah, no, nobody does.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Can you imagine the AI would be like?
What's happened?
Is it not working anymore?
No, the AI gave up on yourbrain, ian.
It couldn't do it anymore.
Yeah, there, anymore, yeah,there's some technology that I'm
happy with.
Leaving alone.
That's fine.
Yeah, so many star trek.
What's going on in his head atonce?
Um?
And then better consumereducation, and and I actually
like that too, because we talkedabout the potential for clients
(36:49):
using ai to kind of assimilatethe information we give them.
That's that's.
That's a great, great thing.
So I view it as a tool and wetalked a lot about ai but it's
becoming a thing.
There's already companies outthere salivating at our industry
and some already working onexactly what we talked about
today to take our industry fromus.
(37:11):
If we embrace it, it's going towork out really well for us.
If not, it's going to getgrabbed from us.
I don't know how much of itwill be out in 2025, but what
I've seen by 2027, there's goingto be quite a bit more than we
would expect, I think, out there.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, I'd be very interested just to hear, like
you know, as this episode landsand you have a listen, hit the
comments, you know, on thisepisode if you've watched,
watched it on youtube becauseI'm really curious to hear, sort
of what the feedback is.
Um, because we're trying to bevery deliberate about we got to
do something and and we want totake control of the process so
(37:49):
that we're able to, you know,empower home inspectors with the
technology.
But, um, yeah, let us know ifyou think we're, we got our tin
hats on and we're being crazy,or if you totally agree and are
on board.
We'd be curious to hear whatyou think.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
All right, one more thing, bion Lizard men.
So hear me out.
No, I'm just kidding, but thankyou for being on, bion.
It always sounds weird when Isay that, but thank you for
being on and letting me rant onmy crazy predictions, and we'll
have you on again.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Awesome.
Thanks, Ian.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Have a good one.
Thanks you too.
Bye.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
On behalf of myself, Ian and the entire ITB team,
thank you for listening to thisepisode.
Don't forget to hit thatsubscribe button so you can
catch our future episodes aswell, and if you have any
feedback, please send us anemail at info at inspector tool
beltcom.
Also, don't forget to check outour app for home inspectors
scheduling and report writingall in one easy to use app.
(38:49):
Check it out now at inspectortool beltcom.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
The views and opinions of this podcast and its
guests do not necessarilyreflect the opinions of
Inspector Toolbelt and itsassociates.
This is Inspector Toolbath Talk.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Really good to have you back on the show there, bin,
how are you?
Yeah doing good, ian.
How are you?
Hey, not bad.
You know, sometimes we only seeyou if there's like a like when
we do the inspection newsepisodes or we do our quarterly
market outlooks and stuff likethis.
So it's kind of nice to haveyou on just a regular episode.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
Yeah, it is nice.
I was actually taking a look attrying to keep up with all the
episodes that you're doing and Iwas like man, I wouldn't mind
being on a little more often.
So it's nice to have me atleast have a slightly different
perspective on things.
Yeah, an outsider.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Yeah, an outlier, is that, what an outlier is
Outsider.
Speaker 1 (00:53):
I mean, I could be an outlier too.
I don't know, but I guess youcan tell me after the episode.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
I feel like they're almost synonymous words in some
context.
Anyways, I'm digressing again.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Anonymous or synonymous.
Yes, okay, all of the above.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
This episode we're talking about ADD in the home
inspection industry.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
We're using a lot of words here now.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Yes, okay, bigger words and smaller words.
Smaller words make my brainsound big.
Big words make brain soundsmall.
Speaker 1 (01:20):
All right, now that we have maximum credibility,
let's continue with the rest ofthe episode.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
So I was thinking, with 2025 coming up, this would
be a good episode because I'dlike to try to predict the
future when it comes to what'scoming up next year.
So, before we do our Q1 marketoutlook and all this other stuff
in January, I wanted to stopand say what do we think 2025 is
going to look like for the homeinspection industry?
So that's what we're going totalk about today.
Hopefully, you have some ofyour own predictions, bi, and I
have some of mine.
Speaker 1 (01:56):
Well, I'm curious to see what you got, because I
think it's going to be a bigyear for home inspection, not
maybe volume-wise like boomingbusiness, but I think is
continuing going to continue tochange.
But let's, let's see what yougot yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
So, first of all, I think there's going to be a
singularity that happenssomewhere in may and the
universe gets sucked into it, uh, but before that I'm just
kidding watch that now happen.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Sorry, I didn't have my foil hat around here anywhere
yet.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
Everybody's listening in today going.
What in the world is wrong withthese guys today?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
It's been a long week .
Just start over, guys.
Just start over.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
Yeah, we should just start over.
It's been a long week, folks,we've all had those.
You start mumbling on yourThursday inspection.
That's us.
So here's some of mypredictions, and some of them
are based on just stuff thatI've seen.
Some of them are based on,basically economists have said
(02:53):
some things are going to happen.
Here's my first prediction.
First of all, I think there'sgoing to be an increased demand
for home inspections, not a hugeone, but more than this year.
I think we're going to finallystart to see better recovery.
This year was a recovery year.
2024.
2025, I think we're going tosee better recovery, and here's
(03:15):
the reasons why Home building isstill up.
I also think that interestrates are still going to fall to
a certain extent, and I thinkit's been long enough that
people that wanted to move towait for the market to go down
have just finally hit the pointwhere they're like, oh, it's not
going to get any better, let'sjust move.
I'm seeing a lot of that happenin the market.
(03:36):
Do you agree with that or not?
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I do agree with that.
I think the whole discussionaround the real estate market
inventory is also easingslightly.
It seems, I know, like locallythat is the case and I think
that people are kind of justgetting I don't know if you said
this or not, sorry, but peopleare just kind of getting used to
the status quo, you know.
(03:59):
So it's not such a big jumpanymore.
They're kind of getting used tothe deeper water and they know
what they're getting into.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
Yeah, and I think we're saying the same thing in
different ways.
You know, when you went from2020 to 2023 and you had a house
that was $200,000 and now allof a sudden it's $350,000,
that's a big jump, hard pill toswallow.
And then when interest rates gofrom for some people, 2.8% to
(04:29):
7.5% or whatever anybody wasgetting at certain periods of
time yeah, that's a big leap,but I think status quo people
are getting used to that, as youput it.
I think that's a good way toput it.
I'm starting to see people justaround me even say things like
that Like it's not, the pricesaren't going to get any lower.
Let's go buy a house, and I'vealso noticed in my own market
(04:54):
price drops.
So, even though people aregoing back out and buying houses
, sellers are still putting morehouses on the market than they
were just a year ago.
A matter of fact, I was justreading an article in Forbes
that said houses are enteringthe market.
There's not enough inventorystill.
That's still a problem, buthouses are starting to enter the
market at the same rate thatthey were in like 2019.
(05:16):
So it'll still take a while forthe market to catch up.
Still more buyers than there arehouses we're probably looking
at, quote unquote normal market2027, I'm thinking.
But I think we're gonna see alot better market in 2025 than
we did even this year, and thisyear was the first non stinky
year.
2023 was awful, mm-hmm.
(05:39):
2024, we did okay.
Now 2025 it'll.
It'll be a.
It'll be better than this yearand a marked improvement, in my
opinion.
So cool.
Yeah, sounds good do you haveany opinions, or would you
predictions, or you want me togo into my second one?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
no, let's, let's go next.
What's next?
Speaker 2 (05:57):
all right.
Prediction number two risingadoption of technology and home
inspections, or a decrease inadoption Cryptic.
Here's the thing I think nextyear is going to be a pivotal
year for us in home inspections.
Ai has been around for a yearnow beyond, yeah, but ChatGPT,
(06:20):
openai they came out lastNovember, I believe, right
Somewhere around that time.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Either way, I think it's longer than that.
But yeah, I think it's-.
Is it two years?
Yeah, I think it startedgetting adopted a bit wider
around a year, where you'd likehave it come up in conversation
and know people that are usingit.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
Yeah, so, however long it's been, we're kind of
hitting a point where they'restarting to talk about AGI,
which we're not going to getinto that.
You know that's unimportant forthis discussion.
The problem is we as anindustry have not adopted it
enough yet, and if we don'tadopt technology like artificial
(06:57):
intelligence and other things,it's going to get ahead of us.
Um, it's going to get ahead ofus and instead of us embracing
it and owning our industry withit, other people in other
industries will embrace it andpush us out.
We really have a choice rightnow, and I'm not talking about
you know.
There's guys sitting there intheir truck right now listening
to those calls.
I use AI all the time.
I'm typing run the chat, chat,chat, chat, chat, gpt for an
(07:21):
email right now.
That's not what I'm talkingabout.
I'm talking about actuallyutilizing that to push our
industry forward.
You did something interestingone day a while back, so our app
is actually one of only acouple of apps that has
artificial intelligence builtinto it.
You need help writing a comment, all this other stuff, and I've
(07:41):
even heard home inspectors say,well, I wouldn't use anything
with artificial intelligence init.
I'm like, okay, that's aproblem Because you pushed a
picture into ChatGPT.
One day you pulled it from aninspection forum and you popped
it into ChatGPT.
And what did you do?
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Yeah, so this has been interesting.
I've done it with every singlenew model that ChatGPT has come
out with that can accept photosand basically what I tell
ChatGPT is you know you're ahome inspector in this, in this
place.
You're working in this sectionof your report on this item and
this is a photo please identifyany you know defects and produce
(08:23):
a narrative.
Any you know, uh, defects andproduce a narrative.
Um, the first few models it waskind of all over the place,
super generic, you know, um,nothing that you could really
put in a report.
But the latest models thatthey've just come out with the
like the o1 preview, um, wow, uh, pretty amazing.
So I took a picture, I think itwas, of a ceiling with some
(08:48):
water damage on it.
I didn't really tell it whereit was, I just took a picture of
it and it came back with a verydetailed narrative that I then
sent to you and you're like, oh,wow, cool, I know what your
first impression was, but it waspretty complete.
The other one was of a deck, um, where there was a very
convoluted construction to likethe you know the how the stairs
(09:13):
were attached to the deck.
There were some extra boards inthere and stuff.
Structurally that wasn't right.
And again it nailed thenarrative.
It got it down.
I sent that one to you too, soI don't know as a home inspector
, could you tell right away thatit was taken from AI or what
were your thoughts?
Speaker 2 (09:31):
So when you sent me that, I'm like it can't be that
good.
So I actually took otherpictures and I started uploading
it and like, okay, here's mynarrative, so I know what's
going on in this picture.
So I put the picture in andsome of it was relatively
complex, like picture of partsof my boiler and pictures of
things up close and far away.
And once in a while I'll belike, can you give me context?
(09:53):
And it's like, yeah, because Ijust sent you this big gray
screen and you don't know thatas a picture of concrete.
But it got really exact and itwrote almost exactly my
narratives and it didn't.
It didn't have access to mynarratives.
It was recognizing defects andputting them in there.
So when I tell this to homeinspectors, they kind of freak
(10:17):
out and they're like we're goingto be out of a job.
Here's the problem, here's thething we're not going to be out
of a job.
This is going to make our jobnot easier.
It's going to make it so that,just like electronic reports,
like half my inspection iswriting the report.
When we're writing reports byhand, now we offer electronic
reports.
Did that take away our industry?
(10:38):
No, I remember when we came upwith electronic reports.
People were like so now anybodycan take pictures, put it in
there and write something aboutit.
It's like yeah, but you stillneed the home inspector.
And it elevated our industry,made it better and now we market
our reports.
This is going to be that way andI see it going a lot of
different ways.
So I see like AI models whereyou can take pictures.
(11:00):
The person goes in and looks atthe house and they can keep
track of.
You know which house they werelooking at and the concerns they
have.
Ai kind of gives them a goodidea and then a home inspector
can go and use that and say, oh,here's their five major
concerns.
Okay, they go in and they stilldo their whole inspection.
Then AI is going to beupselling us because they're
like oh man, that's an old sewerpipe, you really should get
(11:22):
that looked at.
Of like oh man, that's an oldsewer pipe, you really should
get that looked at.
It takes away the element ofthe agent being like oh no,
everybody's house looks likethat.
Ai is going to be like yeah, no, that doesn't look good, man,
you should have a home inspectorput his own eyes on that.
It's going to be an incrediblemarketing tool and report
writing tool, but it won't be Ifwe don't embrace it.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
If we don't own it, somebody else will Exactly, and
that's the problem.
So, yeah, I agree with you 100%, because other guys are moving
into our industry.
Just earlier in the week I waslooking at a company.
I wish I could remember theirname.
They basically, it seems likethey're making use of publicly
(12:02):
available information to be ableto produce sort of a mini
report for an address, you know,based on the environmental
situation or information theyhave historically about the
property.
And they're actually charging Ithink it was $99 for this
report.
You know, now that is not comingfrom a company that was started
or has home inspectors bestinterests at heart, so they're
(12:26):
looking to go the same directionthat everybody else is.
So if somebody else comes upwith a newfangled AI tool that
does this, you know, here you go, take the tool, walk around
your house, do a home inspectionand it's nailing.
Let's say it's nailing like 50%of the stuff.
It's nailing like 50% of thestuff.
If that company does not havethe best you know is not aligned
(12:49):
with the home inspectionindustry, they're going to look
to profit off of that data forthemselves or commoditize the
home inspector and say, hey,here's a lead, we'll pay you
whatever 200 bucks to come anddo the inspection.
That's the direction we do notwant that to go.
We want to be able to leveragethose tools for ourselves so
that home inspectors can getmore accurate, quicker, be able
(13:09):
to offer richer services becauseof the technology.
But that means that we got toown it.
Speaker 2 (13:15):
Yeah.
So I mean, think about wherethese things could go.
I mean you could hypotheticallyhave cool features in your home
inspection report where theclient can ask questions, like
they could have with chat GPT.
Like you put in a defectbaluster spacings were too wide
so the client can just startasking questions to the report.
Hey, what should be a properbaluster spacing?
What makes these not wideenough?
(13:35):
What's a baluster?
Are they?
Do they look high enough?
You know, in New York state didmy home inspector take the
proper whatever, I don't know,just asking questions about the
defects.
Man, that would be incredible.
But we, like you said, we haveto own it.
If we don't own it, there'sgoing to be companies like
Inspectify and I pick on them alot on this show.
(13:55):
This is my personal opinion,does not reflect the views and
opinions of Inspector Toolbelt,yada, yada, yada.
I think that whole businessmodel is stinky.
So now you're going to have acompany, some tech guy from
wherever going hey guys, I heardI could make a quick buck on
home inspection.
So he gets all this seedfunding and he goes and he
starts building these AI tools,like you said.
(14:18):
Hey, yeah, carry this aroundyour house, they'll do almost a
full home inspection, and thenwhat they're going to do is
they're going to get we're goingto turn into the field
inspection industry where youget some guy just doing it on
the weekends, part-time, andthey give you $50 to go and
verify the information in thereport, maybe take a few more
pictures.
That's what will happen if wedon't own it.
And I see so many guys soafraid of the technology In fact
(14:42):
, I'm not going to say who.
It's.
Another software, greatsoftware, but I remember the
owner saying that they didn'twant to embrace artificial
intelligence, ai, because theusers didn't want it.
And I'm like all that is isburying your head in the sand.
We want it to make inspectorsmore money, and burying our head
(15:03):
in the sand is going to do theopposite of that.
Someone else is going to takeit.
We need to own it so that whenpeople want AI for a home
inspection, it's ours.
We own it as an industrybecause, unfortunately, it's
coming, and it's coming fasterthan I expected it.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah, I agree 100%.
So it's really the thinking ofwhen we talk about AI.
Oh well, you know, I, I, Idon't need that stuff.
I'm responsible for what's inmy report and yes, you are.
But these, these are tools thatyou can use, and if you're not
going to use them, it's kind of,I mean, we go from paper, from
from the days of pen and paper,to software.
Uh, you know, I would imagine Iwasn't around then.
(15:40):
I would imagine there was a lotof resistance to that whole
idea.
But look where we are now.
If you didn't keep up with thetimes, you're back using pen and
paper.
You're out of business.
So, yeah, ai is just that we'regoing to have to jump on board
or somebody's going to beat usto the punch.
Speaker 2 (15:58):
Yeah, and just so you guys know how old I am, I
started and I remember these oldguys telling me you will never
get anyone to take an electronicreport.
I'm walking around with a PalmPilot, you know, just making
notes and adding stuff, andthey're like you are such an
idiot, you'll never make it.
And then those guys ended upgoing out of business all of
(16:22):
them and I'm not going to saywho they were, but there was a
group of inspectors that kind ofowned my area and it wasn't
long maybe four, maybe fiveyears and then all of a sudden
everybody's offering electronicreports.
I was one of the first ones.
I remember agents always sayingthey're like what in the world
are you doing?
Those guys are out of business.
We don't want to go that way,especially if we're still in our
(16:43):
prime working ages, if we're 30, 40, 50 years old and we're
like I'm not touching AI man,that's kind of early to get
pushed off to the side.
Speaker 1 (16:54):
Yeah, no, very, very true.
I share your views of that 100%, and I think you and I talk a
lot about AI and how to leverageit, and I think we've got some
cool ideas, because, at the endof the day, we're always how can
we bring it back to the homeinspector, whether it's
something used by someone else,whether it's something used in
(17:16):
an app like how do we make thehome inspector part of either
that funnel or how do we use itto enrich their services that
they're offering?
Speaker 2 (17:32):
Yeah, I think even people who are anti-AI are
really going to love some of thestuff that we have coming out.
It's going to be some prettysick stuff, but anyways.
Prediction number three do youhave any predictions yet or do
you want me to keep?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
going.
No, no, you go man.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
All right.
I think there's going to beincreased regulatory
requirements and standardscoming up.
We've been talking a lot aboutMassachusetts and some other
states.
Massachusetts, because it wasthe first one introduced a bill
and it doesn't matter if thesebills go through or not.
One doesn't go through andpeople are like, oh, I knew it
was going to go through.
It doesn't matter, it justmeans that it's coming and
(18:08):
there's someone pushing for it.
Then it's going to just getpackaged up with a different
bill and different thing thatgoes forward.
The whole skipping homeinspection things that happened
from 2020 to 2022 and even stillinto now has pushed governments
to regulatory AHJs and allthose things to push for home
inspections because it wascosting them money.
(18:30):
Politicians, constituents wereangry.
You had local courts and stufflike that getting inundated with
cases.
Property values went down, taxvalues went down in some cases.
When it costs people money,they're going to make new laws.
So I think that's coming.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
Yeah, for sure.
I mean, here in Florida we allknow the uh, the home, the
insurance industry has alreadybeen mandating some basic
reporting requirements, you knowto be for insurability, um.
But interestingly, in the wakeof the rising frequency of
disasters, hurricanes comingthrough, there is now actually
(19:11):
pending legislation, even in thestate of Florida, from a
government point of view, toenforce at least some basic
level inspections.
You know when a home exchangesor changes hands.
So yeah, it is interesting tosee the different things driving
those trends.
Speaker 2 (19:27):
Yeah, and it's coming , whether we like it or not.
I've said it in previouspodcasts I am all for requiring
the home inspection contingencyto be in the agreement, but not
requiring the home inspectionOnce.
You require the home inspectionnow it's government regulated
and it's kind of like gettingthe town code enforcer and
(19:47):
that's just.
I'm sorry they stink.
It's not going to do anybodyany good.
It's not going to helpconsumers or an industry.
Yeah no-transcript, but thereare a lot of places talking
(20:30):
about it right now and evenmunicipalities, so I mentioned
AHJs.
So you're going to have localmunicipalities, like there's
ones around me, that requirecertain inspections when you buy
a house and it really kind ofstinks, like there's one AHJ
near me probably.
Yeah, you can't upsell a septicinspection as a home inspector
(21:01):
because they're like, well, wealready got one, we had to pay
the town for it, and then thatperson moves in and, you know,
poo is backing up in their house.
So all we did was keep a homeinspector from making money and
doing a good job and thehomeowner from getting a good
service.
That's what I'm worried about.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
Yeah, talking about poo backing up into our house,
there was a post the other dayon the Nachi forum I don't know
if you saw it or not, but thisguy was inspecting a house where
they had a grinder pump thathad a vent pipe attached to it
as well, and I guess the pipethat went to the sewer from the
(21:40):
grinder got blocked, so it'sliterally pumping the stuff out
the roof vent.
Speaker 2 (21:48):
Oh, no, that's awesome.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
It's absolutely disgusting, but it's like the
whole roof and it's been goingon for a while.
You just see these stains downthe roof.
It's so disgusting.
Oh man, it's the number twoproblem in the inspection
industry right there.
Oh my goodness, yeah, that wascrazy.
Speaker 2 (22:08):
The stuff you guys see on inspections, it's
unbelievable yeah, I would haveloved to have written that up.
I have to keep my snarkinessand my poo jokes to myself when
I write a report yeah, so if yougo to that thread, you know, be
warned.
Speaker 1 (22:19):
Obviously you know the direction it's gonna to go.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Parental guidance suggested Exactly.
Oh goodness.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
One of my next predictions and I keep saying
this, I said this all year and Isaid this all last year and it
has come true there's going tobe more growth in the commercial
property inspection industry.
And here's my reasons why, andI've talked to Nick personally
about this even just recently.
Number one engineers areletting go of the industry.
(22:51):
So I don't know.
Well, you and I met with acouple of engineering firms
actually, and they even saidthey're having a hard time
getting engineers in the fieldbecause there's less people to
hire.
So what they're doing isthey're a hard time getting
engineers in the field becausethere's less people to hire.
So what they're doing isthey're trying to get people out
in the field to do the datacollection and then they do the
actual engineering work.
So that's creating a problemwhen you purchase a commercial
(23:14):
property, trying to findengineers who predominantly own
that industry for decades tocome in and do an inspection,
who predominantly own thatindustry for decades, to come in
and do an inspection, and thenmost people, they hire a
contractor, even the bestcommercial contractor they're
not going to write a greatreport.
So we as an industry have madesome incredible inroads, we are
starting to own it, and I think2025, all the way into 2030, are
(23:39):
going to be the golden years ofcommercial property inspections
, just like the early 2000s were, in my opinion, the golden
years of home inspections.
It was just like.
I mean, it was just a greattime and then people muscled
into our industry.
I think the next five years,starting next year, is going to
be just the golden age, if we'rethinking about commercial
(24:01):
inspections.
Oh man, now is the time.
Other people have paved the wayfor you Get in there, get it
done before the low ballers getin there.
And they are starting to get inthere, but it's usually the
$1,000 and under property.
So when you're doing a littlepizza shop or a four family or
something like that, they're notlow balling these shopping
(24:23):
malls.
They're not low ball.
They're not low balling theseshopping malls.
They're not low balling thesehotels.
So now's the time.
It's really going to be a goodtime.
I think yeah.
Speaker 1 (24:33):
Yeah, it's been really nice to see the activity
around the CCPAA, theassociation that's been set up
for commercial propertyinspectors, all the education
going into that.
It really is a is a great space.
But you know to what you weresaying on on complexity, are we
talking about specializedservices that you can give that
(24:55):
are unique to commercialproperties specialized,
specialized services Um, so like, um, cost of cures.
Speaker 2 (25:05):
That's going to be something that's a specialized
service to commercial propertyinspections, which we don't know
.
I'm inspection industry.
We're like, oh, my goodness,the cost of cure.
But in commercial, that's like,yeah, we need that.
And um, ccpia does a greatcourse on that.
I think Lance Kaufman teachesthat one.
Um, uh, Rob Klaus, I think,also teaches a version of it,
right, but there's a whole lotopen to us in the commercial
(25:28):
inspection industry that isn'tavailable in the home inspection
industry.
So like, right now we're doingcommercial septic inspections
whole different beast, a lot offun, great money.
So yeah, there's a lot ofspecialty services that are open
to us in the commercialinspection industry.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Okay, no perfect.
I glanced at my notes and Ilooked at the wrong point.
But yeah, I'm a hundred percenton board with that.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Um, you know it's funny too.
We talked about chat GPTearlier and so I decided to ask
chat GPT I'm like you know,here's some of the things I
think and all this other stuff.
Chat GPT I'm like you know,here's some of the things I
think and all this other stuff.
Give me some points that youthink would happen in our
industry, and specifically 2025.
I don't know if I agree with it, but I see where it's coming
from.
First one that I mentioned hereis expanding use of remote and
(26:21):
virtual inspections.
That one made my stomach alittle tight in a knot.
What are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 1 (26:28):
Yeah, I think there's a lot of big players that
really want the industry to goin that direction, and I think
that may be where it's comingfrom, because I mean, look,
chatgpt learns from data that isalready out there and published
, and we know that there's somebig guys and big forces out
there that would love to do that, so maybe that's where it's
(26:52):
thinking that technology isready for that.
I share the view where youcan't replace a home inspector.
You guys are licensed,certified, all the stuff that
you see from day to day, theseremote inspections.
I think there's some.
Wasn't there some legislationaround some states that actually
(27:12):
do not permit that to be doneat all?
Speaker 2 (27:17):
Yeah, they require it to be on site, and that's one
of the reasons why I don't agreewith it.
Speaker 1 (27:21):
Right, right.
But like you, I can understandwhere it's coming from, because
there's some technologycompanies that would love to
make that a thing, but I don'tsee it happening in practice.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
So here's some things that I think are farther down
the road.
So we're seeing the beginningsof certain technology of not
(27:54):
just uploading a photo and tellswhat's in the photo, but actual
motion in motion video tell youwhat's going on.
So there's a sewer camera appthat you can buy and as you push
the sewer and I haven't triedit, I don't know if it works,
but the fact that it existsmakes you think about what's
going to come up so you can pushthe camera down the sewer line
and it'll start highlightingthings in the sewer line and
identifying them.
So it'll highlight some rootsoff to the side.
It's kind of fun to watch.
(28:14):
Obviously, they give it aperfect scenario.
When you're in a pipe with abunch of turds and black water
and mud.
You know it's going to be a lotharder for it to see, but it
starts highlighting things likeit'll just make this thing glow
off to the right and I'll saythis is root intrusion, and then
I'll highlight a crack thatcould barely be seen.
So it looks like there might bea crack in this pipe and that's
(28:36):
pretty insane.
It's not like I upload apicture and ask ChatGPT to tell
me what it sees and write areport.
It's in real time, as I'mlooking at things, identifying
issues.
Here's the problem, though, forthem, and the good thing for us
.
We're irreplaceable, becauseyou know what a person walking
(28:57):
around with a camera can't do itcan't turn on the heating unit,
so somebody needs to do that.
It can't show the homeowner howto use the heating unit and it
can't find all the defects, andexamples of it are.
Who's going to climb up intothe attic on the far side and
then slip up the chimney chaseto find the mold issue?
(29:17):
You still need to hire somebodyto go in and get into these
places.
But in addition to that, I'mthinking about a specific
inspection where a bunch ofpeople had inspected it and it
was, like you know, fell throughfor different reasons financing
and they were selling it only acouple of years after they
bought it, and all these peoplehad inspected it.
And I'm not saying that I'mamazing or anything, but there's
(29:40):
one wall had all these shelveson it.
So I went behind the wall,behind the shelves, looked at
the wall and noticed that therewas a belly in the wall from bad
grading.
On the outside it was CMU, soconcrete block, and it ended up
costing like eight grand torepair, which I thought was too
cheap, but anyways differentstory I thought it was too cheap
, but anyways.
Different story.
(30:00):
You can't walk around the houseand hold up an iPad and take
video and it say, hey, there'slikely a belly behind that wall.
You can't replace us.
There's lots of differentcircumstances where if you
didn't hire a home inspector,you wouldn't have gotten that
information.
Holding up an app and takingpictures of those things are two
(30:22):
different things.
But you know what it does helpwith.
It kind of helps with.
Okay, you know, make sure Ididn't miss anything.
Let me walk through the houseand I'll identify these things.
Makes a nice 3D model of thehouse like a Matterport or
something.
That's where that stuff isheaded and then I can go through
and do my inspection.
My client gets a is headed andthen I can go through and do my
(30:43):
inspection.
My client gets a better productand then they still get me.
I'm going to charge extra forthat.
It's not going to be a five,six $700 inspection.
It's going to be a $1,500inspection.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
You know it's going to be a $2,000 inspection
(31:34):
no-transcript much bigger, andour engineers were sitting in a
central location, or from homeor from wherever, and they were
just evaluating the results and,you know, adding stuff, and it
allowed us to scale our programout quite a bit.
Is it possible that somethingsimilar could end up if we, if
(31:56):
we have software that's smartenough?
Could that be a direction thehome inspection industry can go
in, that we can capitalize on,or is that unlikely to go in
that direction?
Speaker 2 (32:05):
I think that be a direction the home inspection
industry can go in that we cancapitalize on.
Or is that unlikely to go inthat direction and take video
and you can just say, hey, man,turn to the right, turn to the
left, look up, climb up in theattic and then it writes the
(32:27):
report for you?
I think a lot's going to getmissed.
I think that business model isgoing to be tried, but I don't
think the average homeowner isgoing to want it.
No matter how much you trainthe market, that's not what
they're going to want.
They're going to want well,who's on the other end of this
virtual inspection?
Why can't he be here?
I'll pay extra for that.
(32:48):
Now, are there going to be thecheapskates out there that want
the virtual inspections?
Sure, yeah, but that's notgoing to be any different than
the $199 home inspectors that wehave out there.
So I don't think it's going tochange the dynamic of our
industry a whole lot.
I think cheaper home inspectorswill try to do that and just do,
to be perfectly frank, junkyvirtual inspections, and I think
(33:12):
the really good guys are goingto use it as a tool instead of
as a replacement.
And that's where taking backour industry.
Taking a hold of it andownership of it is a big
difference.
If it becomes a tool on ourtool belt instead of our
replacement, that's a beautifulthing.
If it becomes a replacement,it's just going to hurt
everybody.
There's going to be so manyjunky inspections out there that
(33:35):
are just going to hurt peoplethat they're going to make
legislation to say no.
It has to be a person in person.
You know it.
And if it does replace us, it'sso far into the future most of
us will be retired that arelistening yeah, well, it is
interesting, uh, to talk about,because I think what you said is
is accurate.
Speaker 1 (33:53):
You'll see, you'll see tiers in the industry,
you'll have different levels ofservices.
You'll have the bottom feederguys who are offering all these
things for basically awalkthrough and you can get,
like I said, that 99 report thatreally doesn't tell you
anything other than what youcould look up through google or
something.
Um, but yeah, there will bepeople who will try it, which
will, but but then it would be acase of pivoting with that
(34:17):
technology on your side tocontinue offering the premium
services that home inspectors do.
But yeah, it is interesting tothink about it at least and see
how these things.
We won't be surprised when theyshow up, because they will.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
And we're kind of getting a little bit off into
the wave future here.
This isn't 2025 stuff.
So that's why I said I don'tagree with what ChatGPT is
saying here Poor timeframe,they're off, yeah.
The one thing I did agree withis growth in 11th month warranty
inspections, and the reason Ido believe that is building is
up.
So all this year they've beenbuilding.
(34:52):
So guess when you get the 11thmonth warranty inspections at 11
months after, which is going tobe all through 2025.
So we had quite a few housesbuilt and I think that's going
to be a little bit of a boon.
I don't think it's going to be ahuge one.
I do get a lot of feedback withguys saying they have a hard
time marketing it and it doesseem to be pretty regional.
(35:15):
And it does seem to be prettyregional Like some regions
accept it really readily andothers don't.
But I still think there's somepotential there for it to have a
little bit of a boost there.
But the last thing I want tomention is I did ask AI.
See, as we talked about AI, I'mlike I feel like we should ask
AI about itself, and so this isthe last thing that I mentioned.
(35:41):
It says AI will revolutionizethe home inspection process in
2025.
And, interestingly, it broughtout three points enhanced
diagnostics so it's seeingitself not as replacing the home
inspector, but as being adiagnostic tool, and that's the
way I would prefer to see it asnot as a replacement, but a
diagnostic tool.
(36:01):
A real time reporting.
I think that will definitely besomething good, and we have
we're working on something forthat to make the reporting time
just like crazy fast, as fast asyou can inspect and think it's
going to happen.
And I'm not talking aboutmicrochips in our brains,
Although how cool would that be?
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Yeah, I already told you I don't want to know what's
going on in your brain ever.
Yeah, no, nobody does.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
Can you imagine the AI would be like?
What's happened?
Is it not working anymore?
No, the AI gave up on yourbrain, ian.
It couldn't do it anymore.
Yeah, there, anymore, yeah,there's some technology that I'm
happy with.
Leaving alone.
That's fine.
Yeah, so many star trek.
What's going on in his head atonce?
Um?
And then better consumereducation, and and I actually
like that too, because we talkedabout the potential for clients
(36:49):
using ai to kind of assimilatethe information we give them.
That's that's.
That's a great, great thing.
So I view it as a tool and wetalked a lot about ai but it's
becoming a thing.
There's already companies outthere salivating at our industry
and some already working onexactly what we talked about
today to take our industry fromus.
(37:11):
If we embrace it, it's going towork out really well for us.
If not, it's going to getgrabbed from us.
I don't know how much of itwill be out in 2025, but what
I've seen by 2027, there's goingto be quite a bit more than we
would expect, I think, out there.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
Yeah, I'd be very interested just to hear, like
you know, as this episode landsand you have a listen, hit the
comments, you know, on thisepisode if you've watched,
watched it on youtube becauseI'm really curious to hear, sort
of what the feedback is.
Um, because we're trying to bevery deliberate about we got to
do something and and we want totake control of the process so
(37:49):
that we're able to, you know,empower home inspectors with the
technology.
But, um, yeah, let us know ifyou think we're, we got our tin
hats on and we're being crazy,or if you totally agree and are
on board.
We'd be curious to hear whatyou think.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
All right, one more thing, bion Lizard men.
So hear me out.
No, I'm just kidding, but thankyou for being on, bion.
It always sounds weird when Isay that, but thank you for
being on and letting me rant onmy crazy predictions, and we'll
have you on again.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
Awesome.
Thanks, Ian.
Speaker 2 (38:22):
Have a good one.
Thanks you too.
Bye.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
On behalf of myself, Ian and the entire ITB team,
thank you for listening to thisepisode.
Don't forget to hit thatsubscribe button so you can
catch our future episodes aswell, and if you have any
feedback, please send us anemail at info at inspector tool
beltcom.
Also, don't forget to check outour app for home inspectors
scheduling and report writingall in one easy to use app.
(38:49):
Check it out now at inspectortool beltcom.
Speaker 2 (39:03):
The views and opinions of this podcast and its
guests do not necessarilyreflect the opinions of
Inspector Toolbelt and itsassociates.
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