Investing in Yourself: Personal Development for Financial and Personal Growth

Episode Transcript
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(00:50):
Aloha Inspired Money Maker. Thanks for tuning in. If this is your
first time with us, welcome. If you are returning, welcome to
Inspired Money. I'm your host, Andy Wang, aka
A dvisor Andy on LinkedIn. Today we're tackling a
topic that's both simple and profound. "Investing in Yourself:
Personal Development for Financial and Personal Growth."

(01:13):
For me, as an occasional musician, I get the importance
of practice, patience and a growth mindset. But I'll
confess, when was the last time I actually paid for a
guitar lesson or or hired a vocal coach? It's
been way too long. And when it comes to being a financial advisor, I'm
not always eager to take that course, attend a conference,

(01:35):
or hire that coach. Does that sound familiar to you?
Here's the reality. You are not just an investor in your
portfolio. You are the most valuable asset in your
portfolio. Your skills, your network, your reputation.
These are assets you can invest in for growth.
And unlike the stock market, where we are at the mercy of

(01:58):
Fed decisions and global events, your personal
capital can deliver asymmetric returns.
A $100 course could boost your income. Or one
connection could open doors worth millions. In
today's episode, we're exploring why personal development isn't
just feel good advice. It's a legitimate financial strategy.

(02:21):
We'll dive into building your personal growth engine, creating a
career moat that makes you irreplaceable. And
perhaps we'll even calculate the actual ROI
of investing in yourself. So stay tuned. We've got four
incredible guests today who are going to share actionable insights
about strategic self investment. Before we do that, let

(02:42):
me just take a quick moment to thank our sponsor. Today's
episode is brought to you by my investment management firm, Runnymede Capital
Management, because everyone deserves a clear path to financial
independence. Let me ask you... do you really know
when you can retire or how much income you'll have when you
do? Most people don't. And guessing is risky.

(03:05):
That's why we offer a free 3 minute tool
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(03:25):
clarity. These are the same foundational strategies that I use
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And now they're free to you. So take three minutes right now. Go to and
go to InspiredMoney.fm/GetPlan.
That's InspiredMoney.fm/GetPlan. And
knowing your number isn't just Smart. It's essential. Try it. And let me

(03:48):
know how you make out. Now, let's bring in our guests.
Our first guest is Whitney Johnson, CEO of Disruption
Advisors and one of the world's top 10 management
thinkers, named by Thinkers50. She's a

Wall Street Journal bestselling author of "Smart Growth (04:03):
Build an A Team" and "Disrupt
Yourself." And she's worked with companies like Amazon
and Kraft Heinz to help leaders and teams grow
in transformative ways. Whitney, welcome.
Thank you, Andy. I'm delighted to be here. Excited to have you.
Next up, we have J. Kelly Hoey, a networking expert

(04:25):
and the author of "Build Your Dream Network." Kelly helps professionals
and entrepreneurs harness the power of both in person and
digital connections to create meaningful opportunities and
lasting success. Kelly, I think we hear car horns in your
background. As long as it's not like ambulances and I don't
know what fire trucks screaming will be good, but you'll know. I'm in Manhattan. Andy,

(04:48):
you are definitely in the Big Apple. Joining us as well is
Claire Wasserman, founder of Ladies Get Paid, a movement
that's helped thousands of women advocate for themselves, negotiate
raises and launch businesses. Recognized by
Entrepreneur Magazine as one of the
100 most powerful women, she's a leading voice for financial

(05:11):
and professional empowerment. Claire, welcome back.
Yay. Thank you so much. And rounding out
our panel today, we're excited to have back Jason Vitug,
bestselling author of "You Only Live Once" and "Happy Money, Happy
Life." As founder of Phroogal, he blends personal
finance, mindfulness and self development to inspire

(05:33):
people to live with purpose, confidence, and holistic well
being. Jason, so glad to have you. Thank you for having
me back. It's great to be here. Hello, everyone. We're gonna have a
great time today. So whether you are a longtime
investor in yourself or wondering where to start, you
are in the right place. Let's get started with segment one.

(05:56):
You are not just the investor, you are the asset. Your skills, health,
network and reputation make up your personal capital. Unlike
stocks, you control this asset entirely. You choose what to learn,
how to grow and where to invest your time and energy. The upside
is asymmetric. A $100 course could lead to a
$10,000 raise. Your skills either appreciate or

(06:17):
depreciate. If you're not actively learning, you're falling behind.
Relying on a single ability or job is a concentrated risk.
Diversifying your skills, technical, interpersonal, strategic
builds resilience. It's your personal version of risk management.
Unlike financial markets, your value doesn't tank with a headline.
Strong personal capital Is inflation proof. Your income potential

(06:40):
can grow with rising costs. Set a self investment budget.
Track your skill performance annually. Plan not just to maintain,
but to upgrade. This isn't personal development as a hobby. It's
personal development as a financial strategy. You're the only asset
guaranteed to pay lifelong dividends.

(07:12):
Whitney, in your book "Disrupt Yourself," you emphasize embracing change
is a key part of growth. How can professionals recognize when
it's time to disrupt themselves and invest in developing new skills?
Oh, well, one of the best ways to know it's time to disrupt yourself
is you can actually feel it. One of the things that I have
built over the years is a framework called the S curve of growth

(07:35):
or of learning. And there's three parts to it. There is the launch point
where growth feels very slow even though it's actually very fast.
But you feel overwhelmed, discouraged, thrilled, etc.
But then there's a sweet spot, that steep, sleek back of the curve where it
feels like everything is working and you're growing and you feel this great
sense of exhilaration. But then you get to the top part of that curve,

(07:57):
whereas at very interesting place of you figured out what you
meant to do, like you wanted to learn five songs on the ukulele or you
wanted to save $5 million and you're sort of like, well, do I just
stay here or do I do something new? And so what I found
is that people will have metrics for themselves that might be
quantitative, but you typically know because there's something

(08:18):
inside of you that says, I need to keep learning, I need to keep
growing. If I stay here, I'll stop,
I'll stop grow and I'll start dying. And so you can feel,
in fact, that there's more for you to do on the planet. And so you
make the decision that you're going to disrupt yourself, meaning you're going to jump
to the bottom of a brand new S curve. You're going to engage in a

(08:40):
process of deliberate self innovation, which means you're going to go back to the
bottom of an S curve where you're going to feel excited, thrilled, and also
terrified again. But it's what allows you to continue on this
process of growth, because growth is in fact our default setting.
I love that visual of jumping from 1s curve
to the next. Kelly, what do you think is the biggest

(09:03):
risk people face when they don't invest in their
network or themselves? Oh, well, I'm going to use Whitney's
example because of a conversation I had yesterday with a friend
talking about a mutual connection and this was someone, Whitney, who
had realized that they were on the top of the S curve in their
career and they realized that they couldn't get any

(09:25):
further. So rather than embarking on their own personal
journey, they stay put for two years. And I'm sort of
picturing this S curve like a roller coaster. It's like that thing's going down whether
you like it or not. So you can either jump on it
yourself. So I think the greatest risk, Andy, is people wait.
And, you know, Whitney, and I'm sure Claire and Jason have some ideas.

(09:47):
Why do people hesitate? You know, why that fear
when change is constant? Why we fear? And
so kind of keeping your head low, doing, you know, what you've been doing,
even though you know it's at an end, people just do
that. And then, you know, you're forced into a much
harder S curve of growth. Because now you, you know, what do I

(10:10):
do? What are my transferable skills? What's the network
I need to do this. When you're forced into it, that's
when it's really hard. So I think some of the people listening to this might
be having that situation where they're in a job they're not
happy with or they know there's a cliff coming. Like, how do
you prepare yourself for that? How can you. Your investment

(10:32):
being proactive and projecting into the future in
terms of what are the resources and things that you need to
make a change so that you're kind of not getting shoved down that S curve.
You're making the choice yourself. Claire, you work with a lot of women,
you help a lot of women. Do you advise taking an
inventory to really identify what is your most

(10:54):
valuable asset and then what areas you need to improve?
Before, before I start, can I just give a shout out to J. Kelly? Because
I don't know if she remembers me, but many, many years ago
and many failed startups ago on my end, I pitched, I think, at

(11:15):
South by Southwest. J. Kelly saw me and she invited me to an office
hour. She was hosting at General Assembly. This was probably 10
plus years ago, 15 years ago, she. And
so this is actually a great example of how do you do
inventory of yourself and consistently self invest
sort of before you need it. I love this model that J. Kelly

(11:37):
did of... I want to help all of these folks, but I don't have a
lot of time and energy. So how about once a month or whatever it was,
she would host these sort of open forum, you stand in a
line and meet her. And I met her again 10,
15, many startup failed startups ago. So
I'm having a personal moment of I'm just so pleased that I get to be

(11:58):
on this panel with you now. That's amazing. And I'm just thinking, was I like
royalty in the past life that I made people line up like what the hell
was that? No, but it was a great model. It really showed
us. It was so great because again, it showed us you can help others, but
it should not be at the expense of your own energy. It was the most
optimized way you could help a whole group of people. Right. Instead

(12:19):
of doing one on one coffee meetups, you said everybody show up, but I want
to give you individualized attention. So I think a lot of us can
model, not just, you know, giving advice, but literally show
up as what we recommend others do. And something
I have learned in my life that I teach, you know, my, my client,
my coach and the Ladies Get Paid network is you must check in with

(12:41):
yourself every day. And a great question to ask yourself is, is where
did my energy go, energy in and energy out
and really start to find the variables that
contribute to energy in and out. There are patterns there
and the only way you're going to catch it is if you're being proactively,
if you're looking for it as opposed to waiting until you're either burnt out,

(13:05):
let go right when you're at the sort of rock bottom you now have to
crawl out and figure it out versus in the moment going,
hmm, my energy in today was from here. Let me try to dissect that a
bit further. How can I kind of double down on the energy in
and then how can I kind of self protect on the energy out? That is
a great place to get started. Love that. Love being

(13:26):
strategic with one's energy because I'm sure that people can relate.
In retrospect, when you look back, you say, oh my gosh, I wasted a
lot of energy doing stupid things. Not if you learn
nothing stupid. If you learned True. A tough
lesson. Jason, in your book "You Only Live Once,"
you discuss living with purpose. How does self investment

(13:49):
align with living a purposeful life that balances both
financial and personal growth?
Yeah. So one of the key things I like to focus
on, we're talking about networks, we're talking about connections. I want to like dive in
a little deeper in that. And so when I'm thinking about
investing, investing in, and I do apologize for

(14:11):
let the dogs out, Jason, So they hear me talking,
and all of a sudden there, they want to chime in. But
the, the importance of, of network. So when we think beyond
stocks and bonds, like, how do we invest in our network and how do we
invest in. In building? Because those are, Those are,
are investments that pay back. And to, to Claire's

(14:34):
point, you know, waiting in line, that's an investment of time
in order to build out the network. And we see it, we
see it when it comes to finding or seeking new employment
opportunities, finding new professional
circles or even kind of like the next stage. Like, I have worked in
this profession and now I am in that new S curve.

(14:56):
So the professional connection, the network, allows
me the opportunity to explore different avenues, different
paths. And I think it's really important when we're thinking about
building our assets. You know, there's that saying that our
network is our net worth, and it's important to kind of stress that.
And there is investment in time, investment in

(15:19):
mental focus, emotional investment
as well into these networks, into these people, because it is
extremely valuable.
Someone want to say something? Yeah, I do. Going back to
something that Kelly said about the. The fear piece, one of the things
I remember several years ago, and I actually wrote about this in "Disrupt Yourself,"

(15:42):
is there was a fellow who had like 10 years worth
of savings in the bank. Like, he had a lot of savings, and he would
not change jobs. And so the question was, why
aren't you changing jobs? And oftentimes it goes to this sense of identity, like
the S curve that you're on, what you're currently doing, your identity
is deeply tied to that. So oftentimes when we're not willing

(16:03):
to do something new, it's because we're afraid. But the thing that I would
consider, have everybody consider, for anybody on this call who's
ever lost a job, which includes myself, what I have discovered that
is when you lose that job, even if you're being laid off, it's because you
knew deep in your heart and your soul that this was no longer the
place for you. It was no longer the S curve. It was time to disrupt

(16:25):
yourself. You wouldn't do it. And so the universe just gave you this nudge
to get you to go do that new thing. And so when you're willing to
disrupt yourself before you get disrupted back to everything
everyone else has said so far, you're in a much better position, a much
better headspace to navigate it, because you feel the sense of autonomy as
opposed to the sense of like, ooh, I just. This thing just happened to me

(16:48):
and now you've got to recover from it emotionally and psychologically. But if you
disrupt yourself, then you position yourself like I'm in charge.
I can figure this out. So take charge.
Let's move on to segment two. Personal
growth isn't random, it's engineered. Your growth engine runs on
consistent input, deliberate practice and feedback. One hour

(17:12):
per weekday. The five hour rule is the minimum fuel to
turn learning into skill. Use structured tools like the Feynman technique
or Kolb's cycle. Stop absorbing passively,
process, apply, refine, skill stacking creates
leverage. Being top 25% in multiple areas can beat
being elite in in one direction comes from clear goals. Use

(17:34):
OKRs. One objective with three to five measurable key
results. Track, adjust, repeat. Momentum builds
as each success reinforces the next. Whether you're upskilling
to go further or reskilling to pivot, the engine adapts.
Growth isn't something that happens, it's something you drive. When you
treat learning like a system, you get consistent output, new

(17:56):
capabilities that compound over time. Build the engine, keep
it running, let it scale your potential.

(18:18):
Jason, you emphasize systems for living well. How do you
personally structure your growth engine so it's sustainable
and not just aspirational? So I thought
about this and I think it's important for people to look at
kind of building their skills as if they're building their investment
portfolio, right? So we need to make regular deposits and needs to

(18:40):
be consistent. And through that consistency we're going to see growth. And so
I wanted to tie that financial aspect to it. And
one of the key things, I'm really big on micro learning.
And when I talk about microlearning, that's listening to podcasts,
listening to YouTube conversations. In addition
to, there's an app that I really enjoy, which is Blinkist, that

(19:03):
exposes me to different books that I may not
necessarily have the time to read. But then eventually I learn
something that will allow me to perhaps do a
deeper dive or purchase the book and learn a bit more. And
so when we're looking at kind of like building a growth engine for
learning, it's it really are these little micro lessons and

(19:24):
incorporating that throughout the day. So when we make an investment
into a, you know, into a certification program or into
a long online course, I mean, that takes a lot of time commitment. And
I think if we're incorporating the importance of
learning within our daily life, these
micro lessons, again through podcasts, through shows, we can

(19:46):
incorporate that daily. Whitney, the five hour
rule and deliberate practice are key parts of Your philosophy.
What practical tips do you offer someone struggling to
make time for consistent learning? Yeah, well,
a couple things I'm building on this portfolio metaphor.
I think, about S curves, and you have a portfolio of S curves, and you

(20:09):
want to properly load balance them with most of your
S curves in this sweet spot, at least one where you're in mastery, where you
feel like you know what you're doing, but. But at any given time, you want
to have at least one at the launch point so that you're in this
place of not knowing how to do something. The thing to remember is that
sometimes when we're learning, we actually feel really uncomfortable.

(20:30):
So we're in a place of learning frequently, but we don't want to be in
that place because it feels so uncomfortable. Some of the lessons that we need to
learn are not only these micro skills of I need to figure out how to
use AI, we need to learn how to use the skill of how do I
get along with other people, how do I build a team, how do I emotionally
regulate? So I think those are some important elements of it. But to your

(20:51):
question, which I think is where you were going, Andy, is I am a big,
big proponent of the 5% better. When you
are focused on doing really small incremental gains,
you're able to harness the power of dopamine because you beat your
expectations, and then that feels really good. So one of the best ways to
do things that are hard and new. So I don't know that I would allocate

(21:13):
an hour a day. If you're not doing any learning at all right now, which
is probably not the case, I would start with five minutes, those
5% better, and start to just put that into your routine. And you
gradually build this path, this neural pathway where you're learning
much more frequently. I love the idea of
diversifying that portfolio and then

(21:34):
measuring just by 5% a day.
It's achievable. It's not too big a leap, but you will see
cumulative changes over time. Claire, I know you're big on
negotiation. How can this skill serve as a foundational
building block for creating a growth engine in
somebody's career? Tying into

(21:55):
negotiation. Well, before I answer that, I just want to give people kind of
five areas that you might want to consider focusing on and pick the
one that just feels. I'll go back to energy. Feels like it will
light you up. It's your strengths, your skills, your network,
and your experience. Okay? These are all different. Even strengths and
skills are not the same thing. And try not to tackle

(22:17):
everything all at once. But just dig into where, if you were to
invest a little bit into, let's say, your network, learning
from others, you know, maybe it's not directly connecting, but it's following
people on LinkedIn like that counts. And I think it's
important that you find a way to chart your progress.
And is it time, you know, the time you're spending a day, is it

(22:39):
discomfort? Is it, you know, so a lot of this is. And I'll tie it
to negotiation. Now it's actually negotiating with yourself because you
may find that you can really talk yourself out
of anything. Even if you say you want it, you feel you want
it. Oh, wait, what do you want more? I don't know. To take a nap.
Right. And so I think first, learning how to kind of self

(23:00):
dialogue when it gets hard, that is the place to look
at first when you're trying something new. Did I tie it to negotiation?
Okay, well done. 100%. Good job, Claire.
I wasn't sure how to answer that question. Kelly, what tools or
strategies do you use from. From everybody's answers so far.

(23:21):
I have the feeling like I need to be maintaining a notebook
or a spreadsheet or something where I'm setting goals and can
track my progress. You know, I want to go back to what something
that Clara said originally, like, you need to do an audit, right?
Where are you? Where are you at? Is it the skills,
you know, the network, you know, your passion? Is it

(23:44):
all invested in the thing you're doing now as opposed
to where you want to get to? Like, where are you on Whitney's S
Curve? And maybe you've got to say, all right, I am over
investing in this network. I am over
investing in these skills. Here's where I need to take some
of that energy and time and put it somewhere else. And that's all

(24:06):
individuals. We all have to look and do that.
Sherrell Dorsey, who is a friend, she's an entrepreneur, she's a
journalist, she's done all sorts of different things. One of the things she talked to
me about when she and I had a conversation a while ago is she creates
a personal development stack. And it hits into what Jason said, which was,
okay, maybe, maybe because you're traveling or life or

(24:27):
whatever, you don't have time to do that big long course or, you know, every
time you sign up for an online course, you're gonna, you know, slide your credit
card and not show up and finish the work. Like, where are the podcasts? Where
are the books, like, where are all those pieces that you could say, you know
what, here's information. This is, you know, accessible.
I can do this. But she creates a personal development stack. It's like, okay,

(24:48):
what is it I want to learn? What is it going to take to go
from where I see myself today? I also sort of this idea of what
we're investing in, I want. So maybe it's a. I don't think it's a completely
contrary point. Like some of this stuff that you're finding. Yeah, there's, you know,
getting 5% better or where or five hours or, you know, what's Malcolm
Gladwell, 10,000 hours. Trying things

(25:11):
and spending time to figure out what you're not good at. Right.
Like thinking about what Claire said, what your strengths are and your skills, you know,
what's your. What are you passionate about? Or, you know, are you doing that thing,
but trying things and making those investment of time
so you can like kick things off the list
of that you should not be, you know, pursuing. And Terri Trespicio's

(25:34):
book, "Unfollow Your Passion," is a great one about that. Like somehow in
trying all sorts of. And seeing if you can learn different things, you
may just find the brilliant thing you really should be brilliant at. And that's a
good investment of time. Do you mind if I just. I'm going to jump in
real quick. Two things. You don't know what you don't know first of all. So
sometimes it can help with just listening or talking to people who

(25:55):
you admire in some capacity who might be one step ahead of you. And
then they can tell you all the things that they did that you shouldn't try
or, you know, you'll filter it, but you'll get a preview and
learn from them first. That's very helpful. And then for anybody who's
feeling like, oh, God, another thing on my to do list, chances are you need
to actually stop doing something you're currently doing or

(26:17):
optimize your energy better. Whenever I start coaching clients,
you know, and we're looking for a new job or we're adding things to their
list, we've got to take away something first. So we, we always
do an inventory of where can I do less, do it better.
I love that idea of "Unfollow Your Passion." There's probably something to sort of see,
cease or stop now so that you can kind of

(26:39):
increase in another area. Too many things to
eliminate for me. Whitney, did you have something to add?
I forgot what it was because I was paying attention to what Claire was saying.
So if it comes back to me, I'll let you know. Yeah, I do want
to chime in a little bit here. And part of that has to do with
I'm big on following my curiosities. And so

(27:01):
there's this whole focus on kind of doing as many things as possible and things
like that. But I think what we want is to remain curious
about the world, and that curiosity is going to expose us to new things
and new opportunities. And most of the time, to Claire's points like we don't
know what we don't know, and the only way for us to find the things
we don't know is to go out there and experience the world. And

(27:23):
oftentimes when we devote all our time and energy on one specific
aspect of ourselves, whether it's just our profession, we kind of limit
our ability to grow. So we need to. And, you know, take. Take some of
that time in this professional development within that
career and invest some of that into following our curiosities,
and that might lead us to a different path in the future. So I think

(27:44):
that's important to know. I remembered what it was. Thank you, Jason.
You. You prompted it. What I would say, I think
that one of the things I've observed about us as human beings is
that the older we get, the more we can actually insulate ourselves from ever doing
anything new. Like, we really can put out a
routine that we never do new things. And so I remember,

(28:07):
you know, a couple years ago, someone asked me, what's one of your hobbies? And
my. I said, well, one of my hobbies is trying new things. You know, I
tried repelling a couple years ago. I took surfing lessons. I was terrible, but I
didn't care because I was just practicing
building the muscle of doing new things and being bad at things. And so I
think that. That, you know, in this. In this part, this discussion that we're having

(28:28):
is when we're learning and growing, we
are by definition see the cars outside your window. Kelly,
agree with me. We are, by definition going to be bad at
stuff. And we need to be willing to be in that place of
not being good at things. And so I think it's a great hobby just to
be in the habit of trying new stuff.

(28:51):
Love it. Try new things. Try to eliminate the road rage.
We're going to go to segment three. A strong
resume isn't enough. You need a career moat. That means
building a personal brand and network that makes you difficult to replace.
Start by defining what you're known for specialization builds
identity. Next, prove your value publicly. Create content,

(29:13):
teach or share what you're learning. Thought leadership earns
trust. Then build strategic alliances. Prioritize weak
ties. They're often your best source of opportunities. Keep
your network warm with consistent no ask check ins. Help
first. Offer insight, connections or support before you need
anything. Over time, your moat grows deeper.

(29:35):
Opportunities come to you. You gain pricing power. You become
resilient to market shifts. This isn't about visibility for its own
sake. It's about defensibility. Your skills, reputation
and relationships are assets. Treat them like a fortress.
Designed, maintained and reinforced. That's how you build long
term leverage in a volatile job market.

(30:10):
Kelly, you've said networks can be a person's most
durable career moat. How does one intentionally deepen
that moat? Well, I love that you have this in
here because I think your network, using the moat kind of
visual, I think a network in a,
in uncertain times, in the amount of disruption

(30:33):
and chaos and transformation we're seeing your network
is that, I want to say it's that drawbridge over the moat.
I had a gentleman who came up to me at a book event
and he had been laid off. And you know, for those of us have been
in the financial sector, you know, when you get laid off in one of those
kind of jobs, they're basically like, someone will watch you and you will

(30:54):
take everything from your office and you know, could you speed it up and get
up, you know, we'll give you a few hours, you know, as opposed to 15
minutes. And he walked into his office and he took
his contact list. So for those of us who are old enough to remember
Rolodexes, he took his Rolodex, he
tucked it under his arm and he said, I've got everything.
And the guy who just laid him off was like, what are you talking about?

(31:16):
He says, oh, if I have my relationships, I'm good. And
that's what he had. And so this whole idea of how you build that moat,
right? How are you showing up every day? How are you treating your co workers?
Do you have that curiosity, as Jason talked, Do you have that curiosity
in them? Are you doing sort of an assessment of, you know, who you

(31:36):
can learn from and what you need, but that network, right,
that is going to get, that is your moat. That's going to get you over
the moat into the next thing. And as your video also talked about,
like I, as I like to say, you know, it's not who you know or
what you know, it's who knows what you know, so how. How are you
sharing what it is that you know or what you're curious

(31:57):
in? So that, yeah, you've got a network, and if they find that
you were all of a sudden disrupted and you're like, you know, shoot, where do
I go now? They're there to help you. They know
what you're interested in, but they're also there because you've been on
this crazy S curve ride with them,
and that makes a difference. So showing up once doesn't matter.

(32:20):
Showing up every day matters. On this
idea of it's important. What are you known for,
Claire? What advice do you give to people for defining what
to be known for? And how can personal branding
help someone build defensibility in their career?
Well, first, I think it starts with the process of elimination, of

(32:42):
making a delineation between what you think you should be known
for and what you want to be known for. Just
because you happen to be very good at a thing or known in the
past, or you went to an Ivy League, like, really dig into
what lights you up that you want to share and to share
consistently. This is especially important for anybody who's thinking about

(33:03):
entrepreneurship. You have to be really into it, into the
process of figuring it out and sharing. Also ask
yourself, am I willing to share some vulnerable stuff here? You know, not
just the wins, because the wins may be far and few between. But what about
the process? Could that be the thing that I become known
for, the way that I think, not just what I do or the outcome?

(33:26):
So my first recommendation is always to get like, let's go a little bit deeper
before you put it out there.
How about you, Jason? You're a storyteller. How can storytelling
itself create a moat that makes you difficult to replace?
I think, I mean, with, with, with AI kind of being
incorporated in pretty much every aspect of our lives and,

(33:50):
and it using kind of our skills and even our stories and
formulating its own ideas. It's important for us to really own our
story. It's important for us to really own who we are and our
ability to share it authentically. Right. Not just
algorithmically, but authentically. And that has a lot to do with self
reflection and also reaching out to our network and seeing how they

(34:12):
see us in order for us to be able to convey what we want to
convey and not what we necessarily, to Claire's point, what we think we
should. So I wanted to kind of talk a bit about
branding because I have fell into this for, for many years,
this idea that I needed to go and create a brand for myself. And through
my own process within the last decade, it's realizing and

(34:32):
understanding that when we focus all our
attention and kind of building or creating this brand, we stop
investing in creating and building ourselves as
human beings. And so there's this effort on being a brand, as
opposed to an effort on. On our
being as a person. And also this focus on creating a

(34:55):
brand extremely for profitability, which
takes away our own personal humanity. And so for me,
it really is assessing, because if we're investing our time, our energy and
our resource, and we want to be authentic, to be out there,
it really is understanding who we are as a whole.
Because I've certainly felt this, which is this professional

(35:18):
identity crisis where I said so much time and
energy and effort and letting our networks know that we are one
particular type of person, we're sacrificing all other
aspects of ourselves. And then so when we're laying in bed staring at, like in
the ceiling, we're going, have I made all these choices? And so for me, I
really want people to look at things holistically. And that kind of goes back to

(35:40):
the wellness dimensions that I talk about in my book, "Happy Money, Happy
Life." And so for me, it's really evaluating where you are,
where you want to go, and how that brand plays into you as a
being, not just as an entity.
Whitney, what are the pillars of a strong personal brand? What are
your thoughts? Oh, I have so many ideas going through my

(36:02):
head, so. So a few things that I would share. One is, and this
goes back, I think, somewhat to the network is I had the really
good, good, good fortune of being able to work with Clayton
Christensen, who wrote the Innovator's Dilemma. He was a Harvard
Business School professor for a number of years and best known for disruptive
innovation and was able to stand on the shoulders of this

(36:25):
wonderful, gentle giant of going into this idea of personal
disruption. And so I. I think
part of building a brand is that our network, in
part, is going to help make it possible for us to
build that brand. But then the other thing that's really coming up for me and
building on what Jason just shared is for me personally, because I

(36:46):
talk about personal disruption, I recognize that if
I am not willing, over time, consistently,
you know, year after year, being willing to disrupt myself,
being willing to talk about the mistakes that I've made, which if you read my
books, you hear about the mistakes. But that process
that I'm going through, that deliberate process of self innovation

(37:09):
that allows the brand that I'm putting out in the world of the importance of
disrupting yourself, the importance of growth, the importance of a
growth mindset in a continuous way is
I have to make sure I'm living what I'm talking about. I remember, I
don't know, probably 15 years ago, I was having a conversation with one of my
mentors, and they said, if you want to go do this work, which is personal

(37:31):
development, et cetera, you need to make sure that
you yourself are doing this work. Because if you don't, you're a
fraud, you're a phony. And so make sure whatever brand
you're putting out into the world you are living, you are the embodiment
of that brand. And from there, there's all sorts of things you can do. You're
going to write podcasts, whatever your strengths are. But the foundational piece

(37:54):
is what do you deeply care about? You want to put your stake in the
ground. You're willing to stand for this, you know, through thick and thin,
and then you're willing to live that and embody that. I think those are all
foundational to the personal brand. It sounds like
this process really does require vulnerability.
I think asking your network, I mean, that's one of those things

(38:17):
so many people... I love Jason's comment in terms of people building their personal brand
are like, I'm going to focus on building a personal brand. I'm like, are you
a box of Cheerios? Like, you know, come on, you're a human being. Because
our brand is what our network says it is. And so really asking your
network, what do you think? I'm the equivalent of doing like a 360
review, like you get in a company. And I remember a friend of mine who

(38:37):
was laid off from a Wall street job, and she was going through the,
you know, the fancy outplacement that the firm had
organized, and she was sitting, having coffee with the other 20 people who were
going through this, you know, outplacement group conversation. And someone said
to her, oh, you're a marketer. And she's like, what are you talking about? Like,
I'm operations in a finance place. What do you mean? I'm a marketer. And then

(38:59):
everybody else in the room was like, yeah, you're a marketer. And Joyce
was amazing. She sort of stepped back and had enough self awareness and said, I
need to listen to this. I need to listen to hear, like, what
are they seeing? I also think it hits with, you know, sort of going back
to everyone, everyone's saying, and particularly what Jason was saying. Is like, what are you
letting your network know that you want to be known for? You know,

(39:20):
is it this, you know, the skill and the strength that you don't want to
be continually doing? Are you confusing the market
by what you're putting out there as a being as opposed to being very defined?
Like, this is what I want to be known for. This is the work I
want to be getting. This is the opportunities I want to be coming my way.
And that clarity in the content you're putting out can, can create

(39:41):
that. So I, and I'm laughing, Whitney, when you said, you know, you have to
like, live your own disruptive life, maybe it's the daughter of a veterinarian.
So I always say about networking, you know, when I'm talking to people, it's like,
I eat my own dog food. Like, like I'm not, I am not telling you
to network in some way that I wouldn't network. Yeah.
Can I, can I chime in here? So one of the key things

(40:04):
early on in this, in this journey, I was trying to position myself as this
financial expert. And you know, just speaking about budgets and
numbers really wasn't, you know, something I wanted to do
all the time because I had a different focus. My focus was how can we
live more? And typically finances is, is the part of
our life that could be preventing us from doing the things that we want to

(40:26):
do, affecting our well being. And so when I started listening to
Kelly's point, I started listening to my network. They're like, oh yeah, you're the guy
who travels, you're the guy that does yoga and breath work and then you talk
about money. And so I started listening to that and I realized,
okay, yeah, that uplifts my spirit and gets
me excited to be able to talk about finances in a way

(40:49):
that isn't stuck in a spreadsheet, but it's out there in the living world.
And so when I do have sessions and I do have talks at corporate environment,
I am getting them to do movement. So we're doing money and movement,
we're doing yoga breaths, we're doing all sorts of things
incorporating the wellness aspect of it. And so that was
again, listening to my network, which is, which is part of our

(41:11):
net worth and also understanding if I am going
to be known for something, I want them to know kind of like my
entirety. And that has served me like
tenfold. Love it. Let's go
to segment four. Personal growth isn't a
feel good project. It's a financial strategy, the ROI

(41:33):
of self investment Is calculated like any business asset.
Cost versus gain. That includes time, money and what
you give up to grow. Gains aren't just promotions or raises.
Confidence, clarity and better health all impact your bottom line.
The formula is net gain minus total cost
divided by cost. A course that costs $2,000

(41:55):
but leads to a $10,000 raise has a 400% return.
Even soft skills have measurable value. Track faster
promotions, fewer sick days or new clients via
networking. And don't ignore the payback period. How
long until it pays off? A high return investment that pays back
fast deserves priority. Treat yourself like a high performing

(42:18):
asset. Run the numbers, adjust the inputs. The
smartest investment strategy isn't in the markets, it's in you.

(42:39):
Whitney, you work with a lot of large organizations.
How can executives measure the ROI of
investing in leadership development for themselves or for their teams?
I love that question so much, Andy. So we just did
recently with an executive that we were working with. He had
engagement scores were that were at the bottom quartile.

(43:03):
And they were like, we might need to fire you, but they wanted to invest
in him. He'd been a solid performer for a number of years. And so
we went in, did an intervention, if you will, of
coaching for him where he was actually coachable and willing to
change and then did some work with his team and off site, et cetera. And
over the course of about 18 months, he went from the bottom

(43:24):
quartile to the top quartile. So they didn't need to replace him
as an executive burnout. There was a burnout
reduction and there also had a toxic employee leave. And when we started
to quantify this, what they had spent on this
intervention, if you will, and the return based on those results,
there was somewhere between a nine and a 19 times return. And it was so

(43:47):
fun to go through this with him and have him be up because sometimes it's
so squishy coaching. And you're like, yeah, coaching, not going to do it.
No coaching. And this teamwork, you get
an ROI of nine to 19 times. That's pretty
significant. That's amazing that it's
quantifiable. I'm going to jump in

(44:08):
quickly because oftentimes I get requests from employee resource groups, women's
groups who want to bring me in and, and I charge, right? Ladies Get Paid
and I have to teach them how to get budget. And so we always work
backwards from what do your leaders care about?
So not what you care about, but what do they care about? What are the
metrics they need to see and building that in before the

(44:30):
workshop or whatever it is that we're doing. So it's not just
qualitative. Hope it went well. I feel good about it. But how does this
translate into something quantifiable? And then they realize, oh
wait, I should be doing this for my job. Also, this is how I get
a promotion and a raise. It's not about me, it's about them.
Yeah, sounds good. I love that.

(44:52):
Kelly. The, the value of the network also
feels intangible. How can people measure an
ROI or should we even be trying to do that?
Sometimes I think it's, it's dangerous to do that because, you know, kind of getting
back to, you know, comment Jason made earlier, you know, you're terms of your
humanity, but I think this idea of you're investing in your

(45:15):
network, you're investing in their success,
that is going to pay dividends. You know, it's
the investment that you may not call, you know, it might be that that
stock in your portfolio that is sitting there for 20 years
and then you can call them up again and say, hey, and they're going to
pick up the phone. So there is an intangibility to

(45:38):
it. I want, you know, it's interesting when, when Whitney said, you know,
18 months and you saw the ROI when I was making
a career change out of practicing law into law firm management, which
sound very easy. And I always say to people I was going from one side
of the balance sheet of a law firm to the other. But at that time
when I was doing it, it was a closed network, it was a whispered

(45:59):
network. I did not have the experience, that 18 month investment
on top of like, I want to say 12
years or more of investment in my colleagues at three different
law firms that enabled me both
mentally, I want to say, sort of
my ego as I was going through this, that pit

(46:23):
of despair in the S curve when you're, please, I know what I want
to do. This can't happen fast enough. That network, the
ROI repaid itself and then that continuous investment.
When I think about everything else has happened, Andy, you know,
you can't even put a price on it. You know, in terms of human relationships,
in terms of our health, our well being and, you know, our

(46:45):
prospects in life. Jason, I think you've written
about emotional and lifestyle return on investment.
How do you help people assign value to outcomes like peace of
mind or better health? So one aspect of well
being and investing in wellbeing is rest. So I hear a lot of
employees, a lot of executives who are saying that they're feeling

(47:08):
burnt out for a ton of different reasons.
But ultimately, cumulatively they feel burnt out. And what
tends to happen before their employer realizes that they're burnt out?
They're looking for a different job. And that has an impact on the
workplace. Right. So I've worked with employers and incorporating
sabbatical programs and creating development

(47:30):
action plans specifically tailored to their high achieving
performers because typically it's focused on those who, who are
underperforming. And we should be focusing on those who are high achievers
because they have a higher propensity of being burnt out. And so an investment
in getting them to rest is really vital. And
so as an organization they can kind of see that in terms of

(47:52):
like to Whitney's point, you can see a return on that investment on
the corporate level because there's
also, you're looking at the opportunity costs when
you're. Someone leaves and then you have to go hire someone, the timing
to get them trained and to start working on projects and
programs. There's that piece. But personally, when we start investing

(48:15):
in rest at part of our well being and that is part of our, you
know, that self investment is, how do we,
how can we calculate that? Right. So I, I tend to use this example that
when you're extremely busy, you feel burnt out. And I'm
suggesting part of your well being is to invest in rest. How do you do
that? When you, when you go home and you got chores to do, you got

(48:36):
other things you have to do in your life that is paying for
instance, a delivery service to, to shop for your food
and deliver it right at your, your front door. Or paying
for someone to go clean your house because living
in a place that's a bit more clutter free and clean can
help you with your mental emotional well being. And there's a return in that in

(48:59):
terms of turns of those financial investments
in how you feel and think and even perform at work, and also how you
show up in your relationships. And so I wanted to
stress that piece out. That's the
perfect segue. We're gonna wrap it up or go to our final
segment. Hustle culture promotes burnout

(49:21):
disguised as ambition. It glorifies long hours, constant
optimization and public displays of progress. But working
longer isn't the same as working better. And sacrificing rest for
status is a high cost trade off. Real growth doesn't rely
on guilt, performance or perfection. It's built from values,
not vanity metrics. When you lead with what matters to you,

(49:43):
you build a system that supports consistency, not exhaustion.
Focus on fewer, better efforts, prioritize deep work
over performative busyness. Treat rest as essential
infrastructure, not a luxury, and replace self criticism with
self compassion. It's not just kinder, it's more effective.
Growth doesn't require suffering. In fact, sustainable success is

(50:05):
rooted in strategy, not stress. The most powerful path to
improvement isn't the one that pushes you to the edge. It's the one that makes
progress, repeatable, meaningful, and resilient. When well being
is part of the process, you're not just growing. You're building
something you can actually keep.

(50:35):
We're approaching the top of the hour. I know a couple of our panelists are
going to have to hop off. Whitney, let me go to you. How
can we embrace rest without feeling guilty, especially in high
performance environments? Yeah, this is something,
actually a journey that I'm on right now. I mean, I worked on Wall Street
and I was so proud of the fact that I could work 80 or 90

(50:57):
hours a week. And really I did carry that as a badge of honor. And
one of the things I've observed over the past couple of years is this sense
of I don't know how not to
work and building those new neural pathways of resting.
And there's all sorts of great research out there.
Tiffany Shlain wrote a wonderful book called 24/6 (Giving up Screens One Day a Week

(51:17):
to Get More Time, Creativity, and Connection.) Shawn Achor talked about the value of vacation.
And I think that. And I have a Whoop (band) that allows me to track
the fact that I feel better when I rest more. And so I think if
we can just recognize that when we are willing to rest,
rest is in fact a technology because it makes things work better and
build that spaciousness into our lives. And this is the work that Jason's doing

(51:38):
is it's creating a life of, well, being, a life of wholeness.
And it's something that I'm working on. And I'm finding that I'm
happier than I've ever been. I'm sleeping better. And so
I think the ROI on rest is extremely,
extremely high. It's one of
the things that my wife keeps telling me daily,

(52:00):
you need to get more sleep. If you want to live a long time and
lead a happy life, you better sleep more and rest more.
Jason, I know that you're going to have to hop too. Any tip
you want to leave us with on pushing back against this
hustle culture? Yeah, I mean, I. I really want to
be upfront there as well, that I thought working 60, 80 hours

(52:23):
a week was a badge of honor. I thought the hustle and Grind was, was
very important. And if you weren't working really hard or
hustling and grinding, then you didn't, you didn't want it hard enough.
And so what I've learned is that gears that grind for too long get worn
out and then thrown out. And so if all we do is hustle and grind,
there's going to be a point where we have abused our body, our

(52:46):
mental health, and we're just going to be thrown out and people are
going to forget the work that we've done. They're just going to see the person
that's, that's exhausted kind of the
model of it. And so it's important for us to invest
in ensuring that we're taking care of ourselves
as well as taking care of our professional aspirations. And again,

(53:07):
kind of focus focusing on the rest and the relaxation. There
are studies out there that when we're taking vacations, we don't actually
start resetting our mental and physical
health until the sixth day. So some people will take, you know,
a long weekend and they might just, they might do that a few times throughout
the year and thinking that that's a way for them to kind of take a

(53:29):
break, that actually doesn't allow your, your mind and your body and your
nervous system to, to reset. And so I'm a
big advocate when you're taking a break. And I think this had to do with
working the financial institution where we were required to take two weeks off.
And that had a lot to do with their operations, which was they were looking
at auditing our work, making sure we weren't embezzling or anything like that. But

(53:50):
I think there is something that we can learn when we can take an
extended period of time, allows our body to start resetting our
nervous system to kind of get back into that mode, and then we start seeing
things differently. And so an investment in rest is vital.
Claire, what's your thought? Yeah, I think if you can see

(54:10):
investing in rest is actually helping you, and let's say
we're prioritizing productivity and output and you currently
see rest and detracting from that, we've got to flip it where
you actually see it as the engine that's enabling you to
work better. If you can't sort of accept the rest
for the rest sake. Right. That's crucial. And I think

(54:33):
even little things like not looking at your phone an hour before bed,
that counts. That counts. So, you know, to Jason's point,
don't just look for the weekend recovery, but to
integrate it in small ways. Throughout the day and to acknowledge I'm
sitting here for 10 minutes with my eyes shut. I may not fall asleep, but
that is still rest and it matters. And it's not easy and

(54:55):
it's not comfortable necessarily, depending on who you are. So
that's just consistent, small and. And
to celebrate it as you do it, the S
curve of learning, the S curve of resting. How about that?
This is a snooze, you know, Andy, I was going to say so, you know,
I love Jason, that you said that. You know, in terms of the six day,

(55:18):
there was a law firm I worked at, Shout out to Osler Hoskin (& Harcourt
LLP) in Toronto and they used to insist. So I was working for them in
the 90s and they have the four weeks paid vacation. They insisted
that one of them be two weeks and part of that was
the individual rest. But the flip side of it is like, what
are we doing to our colleagues? What are we doing to our team

(55:39):
environment? What are we doing to the stress and camaraderie
and the rest of the, the people who are around us when
we're just taking, you know, long weekends and things like that that
may be then, you know, completely disrupting their schedule and not
in a good way. So as this partner said to me, we insist on
two weeks because then we can do a clean handoff, then we can

(56:02):
plan the projects, then we can decide what you're going to take on when you
come back. And there's not this, oh, I'm just away for the weekend, I'm not
answering emails, you know, this kind of thing. The other thing I'd say, you know,
we've talked a lot about sort of executives, you know, for the people who are
sort of working their way up. One of the ways when I was
working, you know, the silly hours we have talked about, the 80, 90 hour weeks

(56:23):
is I would watch very closely the patterns of
behavior of those I was working with. And there was one partner I
worked with all the time and he liked to work. He used to work
until midnight or one in the morning and then he'd hand
off what he was working on to, you know, like a
night secretary. And when he got in the morning at 10am,

(56:47):
never before 10am when he got in the morning at 10am all he
wanted was at work on his desk. So one day,
you know, after watching his pattern of behavior and not hanging out until like
one or two in the morning when he handed over work, I looked at him
and I said it, you know, like 6pm or something, 7pm I said, I'm out
of here. He's like, what are you doing? We haven't finished the work. I said,

(57:08):
I know what you want. You want an output on your desk at 10am
I'm going to go home, I'm going to have dinner with my husband and then
I'm going to get a good night's sleep and I'll be in here at
7:30 and I'll be checking the work and you'll have what
you want on your desk at 10am so that's the other thing I'm
thinking like people who are not completely in control

(57:30):
of their workflow take control of the
patterns of the workflow of those around you.
Love it. The importance of setting boundaries and understanding
your environment and working within those confines. Anybody
else want to share a final thought? Yeah.
So one of the key things when tying this to income,

(57:53):
tying it to money, is that when we hustle and grind, the idea
is that there are financial rewards. Whether we're doing it for ourselves as
an entrepreneur, we're doing it in the workplace, for an employer. I think
it's really vital for everyone to use some of the income that we're
earning into and investing into wellness, right? We're looking
at the opportunities to improve our mental health, our

(58:15):
emotional well being, our physical health. Because if all we do is work and
grind, all that money that we're just saving for
a future ends up being used for prescriptions we can't pronounce,
for doctor visits. And so there is a point where we
have to look at that income and the money that we make
as an investment in ourselves and also as an investment

(58:38):
in the future. And that isn't just hitting those financial
targets, it's hitting those wellness targets as well. So that's what I want
to leave off with. And to add on to that, I think doing this
with others is so, so critical. Whether
you're finding a coach, a community, an accountability partner,
if you're creating a new habit and it's uncomfortable, chances are

(59:00):
you're not going to sustain it. So please find other people to, to be
with you in this journey and you will A, be more likely to follow through,
but B, just have more fun with it and learn from them. Plus, we're all
too close to ourselves, so it's critical to get perspective and the only way to
do that is, you know, again with others. Well
said. I'm going to leave it there. This has been a

(59:22):
tremendously powerful conversation. I have loved
the guest panelists today and one of my favorite takeaways
is that when it comes to personal development, it
doesn't have to be doing everything all at once. It also doesn't
have to be expensive. And we talked about a lot of different
ideas today and one is doing a personal

(59:43):
inventory. The other is eliminating things from
your life to make space so that you have time
to invest in yourself. And I think if we're
talking about cost because we all get busy, time
is limited and we have bills to pay.
But even if you just find one book and you can go to the

(01:00:06):
library and borrow a book for free and just have some quiet
time to yourself that you spend with that book, you can have
a huge return on investment because that investment
was free. And I love the idea that self investment
can be asymmetric. You know, $100 spent on a course
could lead to a $10,000 raise. So keep yourself

(01:00:29):
open to these ideas. And my challenge for you this week is just to
identify one thing in your life that you want to improve. Just one.
And maybe you want to understand how to use AI in your job.
Maybe you want to become a better public speaker. Maybe you just want to
learn how to be a better cook. Whatever it is, pick one
item, then do some research. Find a course, a book, a coach,

(01:00:51):
a community. And here's the critical part. Pick a
date. Pick a date to start. Not someday, not
when things slow down. But put an actual date on your calendar.
Because the difference between people who grow and people who
stay stuck isn't talent or time or money. It's a
willingness to pick a date and show up. And those small

(01:01:13):
consistent actions beat waiting for the perfect time
every time. So give it a try. Let me know how you do.
If you found this discussion today
helpful and valuable, please share this episode with a friend. Leave
us a Review subscribe so you never miss a conversation that can
help you become a, I guess more

(01:01:35):
inspired self investor. A few things before
you leave. Let's connect on LinkedIn Find me by
searching for Advisor Andy. Inspired Money is
created and produced by me and Bradley Jon Eaglefeather. Bradley's behind
the scenes during the live stream and edited the segments. Chad
Lawrence does our graphics, animations and editing. Last

(01:01:57):
but certainly not least, I want to give a big shout out and
express gratitude to our amazing guests that today go follow their
work. Kelly is the the last one
standing. The sole survivor. Didn't want to leave you on your own Andy.
I'm here in the studio audience. The tribe has
spoken. You have won the Survivor game today.

(01:02:21):
I I will thank everybody. I mean the the key is to go
follow our guests and panelists. Big
thanks to Whitney. You can find her at
thedisruptionadvisors.com. Check out her podcast "Disrupt Yourself" where she dives
deep into growth and transformation. She has several books
related to related to today's discussion.

(01:02:43):
Go read "Disrupt Yourself" and "Smart Growth."
Thank you Kelly for hanging around and now we can have a
one on one conversation for another hour. Just kidding.
You can learn more about Kelly at
jkellyhoey.co
and grab her book "Build Your Dream Network." It's an essential guide for

(01:03:04):
building the connections that drive success. Thank you to Claire.
Head over to ladiesgetpaid.com and pick up her book "Ladies
Get Paid," a powerful roadmap to leveling up
your career and financial future. And a big thanks to
Jason. You can find him at phroogal.com
and

(01:03:25):
check out his latest book "Happy Money, Happy Life" which blends money
and mindfulness for holistic success.
Kelly, anything that you want to plug or share?
I want to say this, this has been fun and I think just to leave
people with, you know, if you're not your own best investment, I don't know what
is. Well said. Thank you Inspired Money Maker

(01:03:48):
for joining us today and inspiring us to
invest in ourselves. We have some great shows coming up. "The Power of Giving:
How Philanthropy Impacts Financial Well Being" and "The

Psychology of Money (01:03:59):
Understanding the Emotions and Behaviors that Impact
Financial Decisions." Inspired Money will be back next week Wednesday.
That's October 8th at 1:00pm Hope to see you
then. In this episode, the word "uncomfortable" was mentioned
many times. So as I say every week, "Do something
that scares you because that's where the magic happens." Thanks everyone.

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