Pat Flynn on Lean Learning: Doing More with Less (One on One)

Why This Episode Is a Must-Listen

Feeling overwhelmed by information overload? Struggling to turn ideas into action? In this episode of Inspired Money, host Andy Wang sits down with renowned entrepreneur and author Pat Flynn to discuss practical strategies for mastering “lean learning,” lessons from his new book Lean Learning: How to Achieve More by Learning Less.

Whether you want to build passive income, overcome imposter syndrome, or finally break through the noise to implement your ideas, this conversation delivers actionable insights for professionals in today’s fast-moving, digitally saturated world.

Meet our Guest

Pat Flynn is a serial entrepreneur, founder of Smart Passive Income (SPI), and a leading authority on online business, productivity, and education. He’s written four books, including "Will It Fly?" and his latest, "Lean Learning: How to Achieve More by Learning Less." Pat is known for his transparency in sharing wins, failures, and real-world tactics for building meaningful businesses and communities.

Key Highlights

1. The “Just-in-Time” Learning Advantage
   Pat Flynn explains the difference between “just-in-case” and “just-in-time” learning. Instead of hoarding information for every possible situation, he advocates focusing only on what’s immediately relevant: “Know your next step. Do that, and then you’ll figure it out.” This targeted approach prevents information overload and accelerates real progress toward your goals.
   
   
2. Turning Fear Into Fuel
   Pat candidly shares how fear of failure and perfectionism held him back early in his career—and how reframing mistakes as part of the growth process changed everything. “I’d rather fail faster,” he says, encouraging us to see failure as information, not a dead end. His story about iterating on the SwitchPod invention, and his advice for parents and mentors, inspire us to lead by example and embrace vulnerability.
   
   
3. The Power of Community & Accountability
   Both Pat and Andy highlight the importance of community as the “bedrock of learning and development.” Whether it’s mastermind groups, in-person meetups, or simply sharing your goals with a respected mentor, being part of a supportive ecosystem multiplies motivation, provides feedback, and delivers unexpected opportunities. “You can’t read the label when you’re inside the bottle,” Pat notes—underscoring why outside perspective matters.
   
   
4. Force Functions: Create Your Own Deadlines
   Pat discusses the concept of “voluntary force functions”—deliberately putting yourself in higher-pressure situations (like agreeing to a keynote speech) to catalyze rapid learning and growth. This tactical shift turns intention into action and helps beat procrastination. As he puts it, “When we choose to opt into situations where we have to do the thing...we can harness a temporary and strategic stressor for life-changing transformation.”

Call-to-Action

This week, pick one area where you’ve be

Episode Transcript

(00:50):
Aloha Inspired Money Maker welcome back to Inspired Money,
where we explore how to make more, give more, and live
more. Today's guest is someone I've been following for a long time,
Pat Flynn. I've been a listener of smart
Passive income for years and actually had the chance to meet
with Pat briefly once at Fincon in Dallas. That was way

(01:12):
back in 2017, just a month after I
launched this show. Pat's interviews and insights have always
inspired me, especially all the creative ways people build
passive income streams and fun fact. My
webcam right now is sitting on a Switchpod, a product
that Pat co created with Caleb Wojcick,

(01:34):
and I use it every day. I've admired Pat
not just as a podcaster and a teacher, but as a
doer. Since he's built businesses, launched
digital products and courses, he runs a thriving
membership community and continues to experiment with
YouTube channels and live events. He sits on the

(01:56):
boards of several companies. Clearly someone who does. Who does not
just talk the talk. He's walking, if not running.
It's easy to look at Pat from a distance and only see
the highlight reel of his many successes. But I hope
today he'll share with us not just the wins, but also
the struggles and failures that have helped shape his

(02:18):
journey along the way. Today, I'm thrilled to speak with Pat about
his latest book, Lean how to Achieve More by
Learning Less. In this conversation, we'll explore
what stops people from taking action, how we can break
through that resistance to start building momentum. Because at
the end of the day, ideas are great, but action is what

(02:41):
brings them to life. Before we start, a quick thank you to our
sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you by Seeking Alpha
Premium, your go to resource for smarter investing
decisions. I know a bunch of investors, retired industry
professionals who subscribe to Seeking Alpha and they really
enjoy its in depth stock analysis.

(03:02):
Analysis or analyses? I'll say analyses.
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(03:25):
and get $30 off your first year by going to
InspiredMoney.fm/trial30.
It's an affiliate link, so if you subscribe, you're supporting the show
and I appreciate you very much. Let's bring in Pat.
What's up, Andy? Hey, thanks for having me today. It's

(03:47):
so good to have you on Inspired Money and to everybody out there,
I suspect if you're with us, you know who Pat Flynn
is. But I also have learned it's not good to make
assumptions. So Pat is a serial entrepreneur, an
author creator who inspires millions through his
podcast, YouTube channels and online communities. As the founder

(04:09):
of SPI Smart Passive Income and co creator of the
Switchpod, he helps people build meaningful businesses while
embracing curiosity, community, and lifelong
learning. Pat, how many books have you written
today? So, including Lean Learning, which is coming out very
soon, this will be book number four. However, it's my first

(04:30):
traditionally published book, which has been a completely different
journey. And it's been a lot of fun with ups and downs like anything, but
with a little bit of the
traditional things behind it. I hope to have it reach
even more people. It is my first book outside of the realm of entrepreneurship.
My first three were mainly about entrepreneurship. This one has notes of that, but

(04:52):
is also about education and just learning and self development in
general. Yeah, I think that people are really going to
enjoy this one. I think it applies and resonates
with so many of us because there are elements of Imposter
Syndrome. There are elements of living in this
digitally connected world where there's so much information

(05:14):
that it can be paralyzing. Yeah, I mean,
we used to live in a world. I mean, when you and I, you had
mentioned Fincon back in 2017, even around then,
information was still somewhat scarce. Right. People would show up as creators
and they had value in knowing stuff that others didn't. And now today,
you know, in 2025, there's so much information, we're just getting

(05:35):
overloaded. We're no longer sort of picking at information as
consumers. We're at a buffet and we're getting so full from all the
plates that we're filling up. And not only that, of course, the platforms we're on
are force feeding us stuff that we don't even know we need. So it's just
really hard to navigate and understand well what is valuable and what is not.
And do we need all of it? This is really what this book is about

(05:55):
because. And I kind of wrote it for my kids too, who are entering adulthood
soon. You know, they are entering a world that's different from ours when we grew
up, where information isn't the valuable thing anymore. It's application.
It's how you find who to learn from and how you apply
those things versus just like collecting. I mean, we become collectors
and hoarders of information and it's just dragging us down.

(06:17):
Yes, we are. I Am hoarding at my house and trying
to declutter and I'm trying to eat less at the
buffet. Hey, shout out to Junaid from Hacks and Hobbies, who
Pat and I both know. Well, yes, I'm just going to address
Inspired Money Maker. If you're joining us at YouTube, LinkedIn,
Live, Facebook, Instagram, wherever you may be. Hey, Angel

(06:39):
Jones, too. Drop a message in the chat to let us know where you're tuning
in from. Get ready to turn your world upside down with
Pat in the best way possible.
And let's roll segment one and jump right in.
In a world where things are constantly changing, the need to stay relevant
is greater than ever. But in this ever changing landscape of increasing

(07:03):
technology and connectivity, there lies a hidden opportunity.
Instead of getting bogged down by all the content that wants to consume us,
we can instead put it to good use. Most people think it takes
thousands of hours or an entire lifetime to become an expert.
But the truth is that mastery is just the process of taking the next right
step at just the right time and letting those small wins build.

(07:25):
Because that's what leads to the next opportunity where you'll learn
even more, and the one after that, and the next, and so
on. Lean learning equips us with the skills that not only make us
valuable, but also ensure our lives are imbued with purpose.
It's not just about speeding up the learning process. It's about enriching our
lives with purpose and meaning, getting us to that feeling and

(07:47):
reality of a purposeful life faster.
So that was an excerpt from Pat's book. Pat, you've said that
information without action is waste. Can you take
us back to a moment in your life when you realized that you were consuming
too much and not doing enough? Yeah. So I'll take

(08:10):
you back to 2011. 2012. I just started my podcast, and I was
obsessed with podcasts. And you could tell because when you would check my phone and
look at my podcast playlist, I was subscribed to over 50, 40
different podcasts. And like many people, we want to try
to consume all of that information. So 40 different shows, from health
to wellness to finance, and of course,

(08:32):
entrepreneurship. I felt like if I missed an episode, I
might have missed out on the next big thing. You know, that golden
nugget that I needed. But the truth was, I didn't need all of that information.
And what it was doing was it was making me feel like I was making
progress without actually making progress. Right. The learning was discovered
disguising the actual doing. So I Eventually had

(08:53):
to unsubscribe from everything, which is something I talk about in the book, and almost
kind of like start fresh again and only allow that what
is useful to then enter my life in my brain so that I can then
apply it. Right. Because the more stuff. And like, the hard thing about today
especially is if you're an entrepreneur, you
get inspired really easily. So the more things that you're connected to, the more information

(09:15):
you're absorbing, the more inspired you'll be. And you might think, well, isn't that
a good thing? Well, not really. If you're inspired over here and then the next
day you're inspired over there, and then the next day over here and the next
day over there, and we're just kind of like bumbling around all these different things
versus what would happen if we had focused inspiration on that one
thing and gave it at least an amount of time to have a chance to

(09:36):
do something like all these other things that we would want to do, too. And
it's this idea of the difference between just
in case learning, which is what most of us fall into that trap.
Just learning just in case we need something, versus what I like to call just
in time, information, the thing that is relevant to
the next thing that we're doing, because nothing else really matters after that.

(09:57):
I think we've been conditioned to try to figure out the whole
process first before taking any action. And my thesis here
is, no, let's figure out the next step. I mean, know where you want to
go, sure, but you don't need to know the exact pathway there. Just know your
next step. Do that, and then you'll figure it out. For example,
you had mentioned the switchpod, our invention that Caleb and I made. We

(10:18):
didn't know how to make and manufacture a product. We had never done that before.
But we knew the first step was to create something that actually people wanted.
And it just had to have the right shape. So we cut it out out
of cardboard. We went to YouTuber events and just let people hold it.
And that's what gave us a green light to move on to the next step,
which was, okay, well, how do we 3D print this thing? We've never done that
before. Okay, let's find a resource and someone who's done this before and

(10:41):
ask them, cool, we got a 3D printer and let's do this thing and see
if it moves. And all the way up to marketing and Kickstarter. We had never
run a Kickstarter campaign before, but when it was time to sell this thing, okay,
let's find somebody who's mastered Kickstarter. We went to an event that had somebody who
was keynoting who had Kickstarted a physical product. So we got in the same
room with them, we started chatting with them, building a relationship with them. Learned so

(11:02):
much in such a short period of time that we were able to go from
concept in 2017 to selling this thing in
2019. In February of 2019, we launched it on Kickstarter. We
had over 4800 backers and had generated
$415,000 in 60 days.
And again, we had never, never done anything like that before. But we were learning

(11:24):
as we were going instead of learning everything. And then, you know, I feel like
if we learned everything that we needed to do and then decided
to go forward, we would have. We would have just been like, no, this is
too much like, I'm. I'm overwhelmed. It's an incredible
success story. When trying to,
I guess, make a differentiation

(11:44):
between just in case versus just in time,
you know, being like, too overly focused on trying to
learn versus just going forward and taking action. Even if it's
something that you've never done before. You
recommend asking yourself the question, if this were
easy, what would it look like? That's a question

(12:07):
that's really important to me in my life. It was offered to me by Tim
Ferriss, and as somebody who is a
hoarder of content, or previously was somebody who gets inspired by other things very
easily and wants to do a lot of things. I had spoken to
Tim and he had asked me this question that he's talked about many times before
on his show, and is, if this were easy, what would it look like? And

(12:28):
it's such a valuable question because we tend to overcomplicate
things. When I was writing my first
ebook, technically, I've written five books, if you count my
architectural study guide, in fact. But when I was writing that guide, I had never
published a book before, and I was thinking about, okay, well, I'm going to get
bogged down if I think about, okay, how do I market this? How do I

(12:50):
format it? How do I make it look good? I didn't know how to do
any of that stuff. My only next step that I needed to know was, how
do I write a good study guide? And I'm just going to use Microsoft Word
to do it. Which is exactly what I did. And going back to Tim's question,
if this were easy, what would it look like? I would just write on something
I knew how to write. Already, which was Microsoft Word. And then from there it
was okay, once I have this book, which by the way lit a fire under

(13:11):
me because I had this thing ready to sell and it drove me to find
out what the next steps were, which were okay, well, let's get this on my
website, my architecture website. If this were easy, what would it look like?
Would I hire a sales team? Would I do phone
calls and all these other things that are just overwhelming out of my comfort zone
and complicated, or could I just stick a button on my website

(13:32):
and go from there? Well, that's exactly what I did. Eventually I learned
certain web pages were more popular than others for where to put these buy now
buttons. And lo and behold, in that first month that I launched my very first
business in 2008, which was again a study guide for architects, I
had made $7,805 that
month just from a PayPal button on that website. Later

(13:55):
I added all those more complicated automations and other things to kind of fine
tune it. But it got me started, it got me
excited, it got me some small wins that I can then move to
get that momentum forward into more complicated things
later. You have a very
well developed, well developed team and

(14:17):
corporate structure to your business. So it's not a
matter of not planning, right? Like you can
plan, but also be forcing yourself to be
focused on just in time and not getting bogged down,
right? I mean, where do you want your resources to go on stuff that is
going to help you get to the next level, or stuff that is on level

(14:38):
10 and 12 that aren't just going to really help you right now? You can
always put those things away for later, I like to call it. You know, there's
this thing called Jomo. You know how there's fear of missing out, which is a
big reason why we consume things. There's Jomo, which is joy of missing out, which
I don't believe in as well, because who like wants to pretend that they're happy
that they're missing out on stuff? I call it the joy

(14:58):
of opting out. The actual act of
saying yes. I see that there and I do want that. But
no, I'm going to commit to this thing that I've already said yes
to. That is the joy of opting out. Not missing out, but opting out.
Because that reconfirms the, the yes that you've said
yes to before versus just adding more yeses. And then all of a sudden things

(15:20):
are getting confusing. So that's the process for me in terms of
new information. Now, I will say that there's a little trick that you can do
because many people will still not want to.
Many people worry that that tweet, that article, that video, that
podcast episode is the next is the thing that they need later. And so
what I recommend doing is okay, if you see that you have a drive to

(15:42):
consume something that isn't related to your next step, let's put it aside, put it
in a shoebox or put it in an Evernote folder or Notion folder, right? And
you can go back to it later 99% of the time.
You never go back to it, but it simply just gives you
permission to move into the thing that you should be moving
into. And just in case, if you need that later, which again, you don't

(16:02):
ever really need to go back to. And by then there'll likely be better information.
So we learn to declutter our lives in our learning
and material objects. Let's go to segment
two. If I were to go back
in time and teach something to my younger self to set myself up for

(16:23):
success, I would tell myself two things. First, that
saggy jeans will eventually go out of style, so I might as well stop
now. And second, I'd have an honest conversation with young
Pat about fear. Fear kept me from embracing many
opportunities and potential life experiences, not only during my
teenage years and college days, but also deep into my career as

(16:44):
an architect. There's a 99.99% chance
that if I hadn't been laid off in 2008, I would never have
ventured into business and entrepreneurship. It wasn't a lack of
curiosity that held me back, but rather the fear of failure
and concern over what others might think that outweighed the
opportunities before me. Fear manifests in various subtle

(17:06):
forms, often masquerading as rational excuses or
delays in action. Recognizing these symptoms is the first
step in overcoming them.
Pat to me, lean learning is very much a
mindset, and this is a case where you

(17:28):
have to get out of your own way. You can't be. Well, you can be
your worst, your own worst enemy, and you're
trying to find a solution for that. Yes.
You write a formula, right? I mean, there is, there are
formulas in here, but it's, it's more of, like you said, a lifestyle change,
even a mindset shift, like becoming a lean learner

(17:50):
in the way that you approach things and the way that you deal with, like
in that segment, fear. The baggy jeans thing is just
a little inside joke with me and my family, because I used to Wear Jinko
jeans. Like, you know, the big jeans that you couldn't even see your shoes in.
Like, I used to wear this. It was a bad decision, but also just fear,
fear of failure. I used to come home from school with a
95% on a math test, right? And my parents would be like, well,

(18:13):
what happened to the other 5%? So I thought that the 95% wasn't good enough.
I had to be perfect every single time. So I feared any
sort of mistakes. And if you are going through life, especially as an
entrepreneur or somebody, you're dealing with money, you're trying to, like, make a living of
any kind. If you live in that fear, you're always going to play it safe.
And unfortunately, we are at a point now where if you're just playing it safe,

(18:34):
you're going to blend in. You're never going to stand out. You have to take
some risks. But these are calculated risks, and these are risks where.
There's other parts of the book that I'm sure we're going to get into about
mentorships and community that will help alleviate some of that and help give
you inspiration and accountability amongst that risk. But the failure
is actually a part of the process. I've learned it's not, in fact,

(18:56):
bad to fail. I'd rather fail faster. When
building the switchpod, building it at the wrong size really quickly
out of cardboard showed me that it shouldn't be that big and it's too hefty.
So great, I failed. Does that mean I give up? No, it just means I
cut it out a different shape and try again. It's like fishing. I'm a big
fisherman. I love to go fishing. Imagine having

(19:18):
the right bait on a boat and you're casting it right into the
water at the perfect spot next to that rock, and you're giving it the best
presentation. You're jerking it just a little bit so it gets that perfect
motion for that fish and you don't get a bite. What do you do? You
just go home and pack it up? No, you cast
again and you try a little bit different. Maybe you cast to the other side

(19:38):
of the rock. Maybe you put on a different bait because maybe the water is
a little murky. Whatever it might be, you learn these things over time.
But again, what most people do is they'll plan everything out, cast once,
and then pack it up. That's. That's not how you figure things
out. That's not how you become an expert. That's not how you enjoy life. You
enjoy life through the failures and understanding so that you can navigate

(19:59):
toward that direction you want to go to, not away from
failure. I find that
if you really dig deep into it and
analyze yourself and your feelings and
what your fears are, I find that a lot of the time,

(20:20):
the procrastination is sometimes just
delaying because you're afraid to fail. You're afraid of what people
will think. Have you found that
through entrepreneurship, through experimenting, through trying
different things and embracing failure as part of the
learning process, that you care less about what people

(20:43):
think? That's a good question. You know, I don't necessarily
care less about what people think, but I care think
about it a little differently. Whereas when people would see
me fail, I would worry that they
would look down on me, see me as a failure, would
think I wasn't good enough. These are all just conditions that I've learned to grow

(21:05):
up with. In the school that I was in and being very tiny, very small
kid, I was bullied a lot. So I was always one to try to
blend in, not stand out, right? So I didn't want to make mistakes. And, you
know, trying to be perfect was the only thing I had going for me. And
eventually I joined the marching band, which is where I blended in with all the
other people who were often picked on and bullied. So that's where I found refuge.

(21:25):
But over time, you know, I don't not care about what people
think, but I respond to it differently. If people see me fail,
this is an opportunity to see that I'm still working hard enough to get out
of that and try to find a solution. If people see me stumble,
it could be, in a way, inspiring to people because they can see,
oh, they're stumbling too, just like I do. And maybe together we can get

(21:48):
through this, which is where the mentorship and the sort of camaraderie comes
in in anybody's learning process. So, no, I never
not think about what people are thinking about me, but I respond to it
differently now. Now there's of course going to be haters and trolls that show up,
especially when you put yourself out there online. And those are just different stories and
different things that come with that territory, which is

(22:10):
why it's important to find those who can support you. But
that often is a result of something going on in their lives, right? Hurt
people, hurt people is what I've learned. But we
can hurt ourselves in a way where we can get in our
own way, like you said before, and that procrastination is just a symptom. We have
to figure out what these symptoms are so that we can actually understand them

(22:32):
and then know how to deal with them, right? So procrastination, the more you put
something aside, oftentimes it's the bigger deal that
thing is, and we are just avoiding the hard things. Whereas if you tackle
it head on, with the right support, with the right information, understanding
that the failing part of that process is you learning, then you're
going to be more likely to not just do those things, but get through those

(22:53):
things much faster and with support. Another symptom
of failure and that fear
is trying new things, right, to
stay busy on other things to kind of distract us from those things that might
be more difficult. And we see this often with entrepreneurs in the first six months
of their business. They're excited. They have that honeymoon period. The what if, what if

(23:14):
this is amazing. What if this works? What if this is going to blow up?
But the what ifs start to transition around month six and they turn into, what
if I was wasting my time? What if this fails? What if I look bad?
What if I'm not good enough? Right? That's that imposter
syndrome starts to kick in, which is again, another symptom of that fear.
But this is why, again, that support system is key. Understanding the purpose

(23:35):
of failure and the mistakes are the roadmap, right? The
mistakes you make do tell you which direction to go next.
As a mentor and a parent,
how. How have you been able to impart
those lessons on reframing
fear to your children? You know,

(23:57):
I could say these things all day. I can come up with any fancy quotes
that I want. It always has been done through example. And that's
something I've always done ever since I started my business and started teaching it. I
didn't want to teach it through talking about it. I wanted to teach it by
showing. And part of that showing is showing the failures and the stuff that
I did incorrectly. And I do the same thing with my kids. I think one

(24:18):
thing that was important to me and, you know, no offense to my parents, I
love my parents and they're amazing, but they never admitted when they did
things wrong, right? And again, that led itself to,
well, they must be perfect and I have to be perfect too. Versus if
they had maybe owned up to more of their mistakes or had
shown more vulnerability and the things they were trying to do and kind

(24:40):
of taking me along that lesson, ride with them, then, you know, we could have
had maybe even a stronger relationship than we do today. So that's something that I
want to implore to my kids is like, I'm not perfect, but I'm learning. And
I'm also somebody who could learn from you. When my kids would come
home from school at a very young age, you know, very common question to ask
your kids is, what'd you do in school today? Or how was school today? Never

(25:01):
ask that. I hated that question because of course you always get the same answer,
fine or nothing. Or, you know, same old. Rather, I would
ask questions like, well, what did you learn that you could teach me today? And
even though I knew most of those things, to see my kids light up
in the way that they teach and to see that, you know, I can still
learn something from them and that I'm open to that is great. This is how

(25:23):
the world should work. We can, we can all be here to serve and help
one another. So those are ways that I
try to teach my kids. It's through actually doing versus
talking. I love that question. I will start using that
tomorrow. Let's go to the next segment.
Being part of a supportive community not only means you have others to lean

(25:44):
on, but also that you have the opportunity to support others in
return. This mutual exchange enriches the learning
experience and amplifies the impact of the community. Each
member, by supporting others, learns not only about their own
capabilities, but also about the power of empathy and
encouragement. Frankly, our society has strayed too

(26:05):
far from these communal interactions which historically formed the
bedrock of learning and development. We've isolated ourselves
glorifying solo achievements while neglecting the profound benefits
of collective growth. It's time we return to our roots, re
embracing the communal ethos that empowers everyone to not just
succeed alone, but thrive together. So as you navigate your

(26:27):
own challenges and successes, consider how you can also be a
champion for others. Whether it's offering a word of encouragement,
sharing a valuable resource, or simply listening to someone's
concerns, you're at actions can help propel someone else forward.
This reciprocal relationship doesn't just strengthen others, it
also deepens your own understanding and enhances your

(26:49):
journey.
Pat, I like this one because when we read about Blue Zones,
community plays an important role in longevity. Here
you're talking about it being a bedrock of learning and
development. Can you describe a moment when

(27:10):
someone in your community lifted you up or helped you to see something that
you didn't see on your own? Oh yeah. I mean, we could talk for
hours about this. I had seen a quote on your
channel. In fact, it was the idea of communities being co
evolution engines and I love that. And so I think we're on the same wavelength
there as far as the importance of togetherness and bringing multiple

(27:32):
people together to support one another and support our own communities and do something much
larger. This is that part of the book where it's not just about the learning,
right? It's about the more worldly view and the things that we could do beyond
just ourselves. And that's so important. I mean, the one that comes
to mind. The story that comes to mind is. Is from a listener of mine,
a fan, who had at one point gotten into a very bad

(27:53):
ski accident. And this is how they found my podcast. They actually found my show
while on a bed with two broken legs. And I didn't know about any of
this until I had gotten an email from them at one point. And this
was in 2011. I was very much close
to quitting my podcast because it just wasn't really feeling like it
was growing or going anywhere. I was putting more time into my blog, and the

(28:15):
podcast was just starting out at the time, so I was taking a lot of
time. I was editing everything myself until I got this email from
this person who shared this horrific story with me, but said that he was, as
a result of, able to listen. After listening to my podcast
and creating really big goals for himself, he was able to work
his way back into not just walking and jogging again,

(28:36):
but actually running. And he started running, and he had a goal for himself that
he set while on his bed, while listening to my show, which was to run
a marathon, which is. Which is admirable, especially when you aren't able
to walk. And at the end of this email, there was an
image of him crossing the finishing line of
the Warsaw in Poland

(28:57):
marathon, holding a sign up, and it was in Polish. So he translated for me,
and it said, thank you to God. Thank you to his kids. And right there
at the end, it said, thank you, Pat Flynn. And
this person sent this email because he felt that my
energy on the show was. Was losing, that I just
wasn't in it anymore. Like, I was in the very beginning again, that honeymoon period,

(29:18):
I was kind of in that just kind of going through the motions phase. And
this email lit a fire under me. And this person didn't have to do this,
but he also taught me that there are many other people who are probably going
through stuff that I will never hear from, and I have to keep going for
them. So now we're 860 some odd episodes into smart, passive
income across 15 years now. And it's been amazing. And I don't plan on

(29:39):
stopping, but that was a moment when I had a person who
championed me and what I was doing and really wanted it to succeed and gave
me a story to help me remind myself about the why behind it
all. From real marathon to
your podcasting marathon. That's
right. So you run a

(30:01):
community for somebody who's operating solo.
Like, what's the first step you'd recommend for them to start building or
joining a meaningful community?
Yeah, ask around is the first thing. I mean, again, if this were easy, what
would it look like you would find somebody near you or somebody you already
know who is involved with, a thing that you might be interested in? Again, it

(30:22):
depends on what it is you're interested in. But there are communities everywhere, from
Facebook groups, LinkedIn groups, and these are online communities to
meetup.com in places like where you can start online but then meet in
person. There might be some local groups. Ask around in your church, in your
community. That's the easiest way to just get to know who's there, because that's
ultimately the goal here, is just who else is here into the same things that

(30:43):
I am. And when you do that, it's just incredible what can happen when
you connect with one another. And it could be just at a more friendly
and colleague level. It could turn into something that's more of a partnership. And who
knows? And in our community, we see it all the time, and Junaid knows this.
People are connecting and forming podcast episodes together,
businesses together, simply as a result of being in the same

(31:05):
room with other people who share the same values and goals. And like in the
segment said, we're just kind of losing that touch now with.
With. With other people. Right. We're. We're so into what
are our goals and how do we share those, these goals with others, but not
in a communal way, but more in a look at how good I am kind
of way. I think we need to get back to our roots. And when you
think about it, before the Internet, before anything, when. When humans were just

(31:29):
coming about how were. How were things spread, how were communities formed
just through storytelling, through conversation, through being in person with
people. And I'm seeing this as somebody who creates events now myself,
we're seeing a big push, a big want and need
from people to connect in person and to be
around one another and to kind of go back to how it was

(31:51):
before the Internet days. I think that's kind of maybe the benefit of people
who are of my age and millennials. We grew up before the Internet, but then
we grew up with the Internet and we can kind of see the pros and
cons of each side. But you know, I think we have an opportunity to go
back to maybe a happy medium where we are still online and we are still
using the Internet. We are controlling the intake and not having junk

(32:13):
inspirations come our way or what I like to call junk sparks get in our
way and remove our focus. But being together
with other people is just going to bring a whole new level of energy and
light and honestly, just joy to life. Again,
great advice. Let's go to segment four.
Would I be able to learn new things faster if I purposefully

(32:34):
put myself in higher pressure situations? That question is
the essence of this chapter. I practice what I like to call voluntary
force functions. By deliberately placing myself in challenging
circumstances, circumstances that require me to step up, I
increase the likelihood that I will follow through on my commitment and achieve
my goals. These chosen environments cast catalyze rapid learning

(32:56):
and personal growth. They are incredibly powerful when it comes to
lean learning. So powerful in fact that voluntary force
functions have become my go to hack for speedrunning skill
acquisition. That's gamer speak by the way. Speedrunning
is the process of racing through a game as quickly as possible
so that you can get to the end in record time. When we

(33:18):
choose to opt into situations where we have to do the thing instead
of just waiting around for it, we can harness a temporary and
strategic stressor for life changing transformation.
This is about stepping into growth deliberately. It's about moving from
being a passive participant in your life to an active architect of your
own development.

(33:43):
Pat, I love this concept of voluntary force functions. This is
tactical. I know that public speaking
was once a fear of yours. How did you use
force function to conquer that fear? Yeah, I used to avoid
every opportunity to speak on stage. When my business was blown up in
2010, 2011, I passed on every opportunity. Even though people

(34:04):
had asked, even though I knew it was a good opportunity to get in front
of people, to build more authority to increase revenue. I said no because I
was definitely afraid of it. But it wasn't until my friend PT or Philip
Taylor, who founded an event called FinCon at the end of
2011. He'd asked me and he was a friend, he was really needing some
help and I said yes, knowing that that would force

(34:25):
me to do the thing. Now I didn't know, but this was
this. I was going to have a little bit more pressure because two weeks before
the event, the closing keynote of this entire event dropped out
and Philip asked Me to fill in. So what did this do? This
really put something at stake for me. It stressed me
out, I'm not going to lie. But it also forced me

(34:47):
to find the right information that I needed right then. And
I found a book called Stand and Deliver by Dale Carnegie, which was the best
book I've ever read about speaking. That was my sort of go to beginning
book to learn how to start. There were a million books. Should I consume them
all? No, I didn't have the time. I was forced to make a decision on
who to learn from, where to learn, and actually take action on things. Again, if

(35:08):
this were easy, what would it look like? Well, I would talk about a topic
that everybody was interested in. What does every blogger want to know about? How to
stand out. Okay, I know how to do that so I can talk about that
again. I didn't force that. I just asked that question. If
this were easy, what would it look like? Always guiding me along the way. And
lo and behold, I did that presentation. It wasn't the best. Again, I failed at
certain parts. There were certain parts that I forgot I had stumbled my words here

(35:31):
and there, but I did it. And it was good enough for me to move
on to the next one and then the next one and then the next one.
And now I've spoken over 360 times and I've
gotten paid over six figures to be able to do this now. Something that I
was deathly afraid to do because I put myself in that situation. You know, there
was something at stake there. A lot of times we go through

(35:51):
life and we have involuntary force functions when we're put in a situation
to make things happen. Like when I got laid off, I didn't want to move
back in with my parents, even though I did and wanted to move out as
quickly as I could. I didn't volunteer to do all that, but
it made me and forced me to take actions that I wouldn't have taken otherwise.
Right. So we can put ourselves in these a little bit higher stressor situations. Right.

(36:12):
You still want to be safe, but a little bit of risk goes a long
way in helping us cut through the noise, finally take action and
go do the things. Go learn the right things. Not waste any time because there
is an impending deadline or something that's about to happen. Tim Ferriss was somebody
who kind of inspired a lot of this chapter about voluntary
force functions. He had a series on Apple at one point. It was a video

(36:34):
series. I don't know if you remember this, but he was doing these things where
he was trying to learn things quickly, and he was trying to learn
Tagalog, which is the Filipino language. And I'm half Filipino myself,
so I was like, I have to watch. This is super interesting. So instead of
trying to learn every word and every sentence, he put himself in
a situation where he just needed to know the base amount of information

(36:54):
to perform well. Perform well in what? He had an
interview on a Filipino news station coming
up, like, I think a month from that point. And that was his voluntary
force function. A date and time and place where he
needed to show up. And he did. He did pretty good. Was
he fluent? No. But he was on his way if he wanted to continue

(37:17):
because he put himself in that situation. I know
that Tim. He likes languages. I never saw that episode.
I watched the drumming one where he. Had to learn how to same, same.
Series, be a rock drummer, like in a week or
something.
How do you know when you're pushing yourself in a healthy way

(37:39):
versus heading toward burnout? Is that a
delicate balance? Yeah, absolutely. And a lot of times these things
are hidden in different kinds of ways. Right. Of course,
health wise, you can begin to understand and see what's working or what's not. I
know a lot of entrepreneurs who push themselves to the brink, where some of my
friends have ended up in the hospital because they've burned out too much, because they

(38:01):
were into the hustle and the hustle and trying to do too much. I mean,
there is a line, for sure. This is why I think the communal part's really
important, because you can't read the label often when you're inside the
bottle. So having some outside perspectives. And this is where I connect with a
mastermind group every single week to just kind of help me see things that I
might not see. They're able to call things out before they, you know,

(38:21):
become dangerous. So that's. That's sort of strategy number one. Another
thing is to, you know, pay attention to where your time is being
spent. I think a lot of us can go through the motions
and kind of get put on autopilot, but when you zoom out every once in
a while and kind of, like, take, like, step out of yourself for a second.
Okay, let's do a little audit. Where's my time going? How is my energy?

(38:43):
Where am I feeling pulled or where am I getting compelled to
go? Just a little audit with yourself is really
important. I call it a WI fi in the book. A why?
Focused introspection. Because if you don't have WI fi, you're going to Lag.
That's the dad joke. There's a lot of dad jokes that make their way throughout
this book. There's even more in the audiobook, by the way. I just finished my

(39:04):
audiobook recording and I added a lot of ad lib
stories and some of the stories include more jokes. But anyway, it's just part of
who I am. I am me. But yeah, those are just a few things
that you can do to make sure that you don't push yourself too far over
the edge. And again, if you have a mentor or somebody that you're learning from,
having guidance along the way can be key. You know, the

(39:25):
coach to help you there or the, you know, when I was learning how to
do triathlons and swim, I hated swimming, but I knew I had to swim for
a triathlon. It was a big sort of life goal of mine. I hired a
coach, his name is Jeff, and I still work with him today. And he helped
me just make sure that I wasn't being unsafe and that I could know strength
train properly without breaking myself and also, you know, swim and do it

(39:47):
in a way where I wasn't going to drown. So was really thankful for that.
And a lot of times we need a person or a coach or a guide
to help us stay safe along the way.
I hear that having a date, either setting it yourself or
having an event date or something that's happening that's forced upon you,
that's critical. You also mentioned that sharing goals with

(40:08):
somebody that you respect instead of just
broadcasting a goal that you're, that you're going after,
say on social media for the purpose of accountability,
why is engaging someone that you respect
and sharing that with them, why is that more effective
and how has it worked for you? Yeah, sharing goals has evolved

(40:31):
in a very interesting way. In the beginning, especially when social media came out, it
was like, okay, I'm going to share my goals so I can be held accountable
by this faceless community of mine, Right? And what happens is
you almost get the feeling like you've already accomplished the
thing before you even start because you're getting a lot of, and especially if it's
your own community, a lot of, like, you got this, you're gonna do it like
you did it. Like, I believe in you and those are important.

(40:55):
But also they can kind of blur
lines between like actually doing the thing and, you know, you know, not starting at
all. So that's, I think Derek Sivers said that in
a TED Talk once and it kind of hit me hard because I used to
share my goals all the time. But then this study came out from University of
Ohio that basically said, like, sharing your goals can

(41:15):
work, but it depends on who you share it with. If you just share it
like with a community and a crowd, then yeah, you're going to get these feelings
like you finish, because people will kind of root for you for
that. But if you share it with somebody who is more of a
mentor or a guide, then
you're actually going to be held accountable for that because they're going to check in
with you and they're going to actually want to make sure you succeed and do

(41:38):
the thing. So when you share it, a goal with somebody who you respect,
somebody who you admire, then you're more likely to follow through than
if you were to just kind of blanket share at all or not share
it at all. So that's, that's kind of what the study
says. And I found that to be true. Very much so.
Great advice and a shout out to Derek Sivers, who I

(42:01):
also love his writings. Everyone can
check out his interview on Inspired Money, episode
142. Let's bring it home with the final
segment. This book is a prime example of the transformative
power of teaching. The process of writing has forced me to extract and
articulate the concepts I've lived and practiced in a more thorough and

(42:23):
intentional way. By committing to sharing my knowledge with you,
I've gained a deeper understanding of the Lean Learning framework
and discovered new insights and connections that I hadn't fully
appreciated before. Teaching others also opens up a world
of opportunities for personal and professional growth. It allows
you to establish yourself as a thought leader in your field and make a

(42:45):
positive impact on the lives of others. Sharing your knowledge
helps to build meaningful relationships from the students you serve to
the partners you collaborate with, many who could potentially become
lifelong friends. When sharing happens, we create a
ripple effect that extends far beyond our immediate circle of
influence. And in my humble opinion, this is what we need

(43:07):
more of in the world. When everybody shares, everybody
wins.
Pat, this one's interesting and I think this is a good way to wrap up
this conversation about your book.
I occasionally play Hawaiian music for fun. I play

(43:28):
guitar, I play ukulele, and I've been very fortunate
to have been blessed to play with musicians that are way better
than me. Guys, you know, men and women who are on
tour from Hawaii playing Hawaiian music and I get to invited to play
with them. Wow. And I was asked this question
back in March. There were a couple of ukulele

(43:50):
virtuosos who stayed at my house. And one
of them asked me, andy, are you teaching? Are you teaching ukulele? And
I said, no, I'm not. I feel like I barely know how to play my
instrument next to those guys. Right. That's how I feel.
How has sharing your knowledge open unexpected

(44:10):
doors or relationships in your career? And I'm assuming that you
would encourage me. I should teach
ukulele. Teach what I know.
When you teach what you know, and the reason why a lot of people don't
do it and the reason why you probably didn't do is because, like, how can
you feel qualified to do it when you're still in the learning process? We often

(44:31):
feel we have to have, you know, a degree or a PhD or something like
that to feel qualified to teach. But the truth is, you just need to be
a few steps ahead of somebody else to still be able to provide value.
I remember, and this story wasn't in the book, but I remember my son struggling
to learn to swim. And we worked with him for a couple
summers taking lessons and stuff. And

(44:52):
when he finally learned from a guide, right, we got a
swimming coach. He lit up. He was absolutely.
I mean, we were so happy because we didn't have to worry about him anymore
in the pool. And he loves the water. He just didn't know how to swim.
So that unlocked something huge for him. And that same
summer he learned how to swim, he came in with
a bunch of friends, and some of those friends didn't know how to swim. But

(45:15):
you know what? He lit up and tried to teach them how to swim. And
as a result, he gained even more confidence, more confidence in
what he had just accomplished. We kind of
welcomed that. Now, there's a line there, obviously, because we don't want him or
anybody teaching to say, look at how much better I am than you than
for this thing. Like, I'm so much better than you. I'm going to teach you

(45:36):
how to be better. Like me, rather, hey, here's what I've learned
and here's how I can help you. And I think that just, again, makes the
world a much, much better place. And I've even in that example that you shared
with the clip, Lean learning has been something I've been
living for the last 15, 16, 17 years. But I
never knew how to actually share these things and extrapolate the learnings

(45:57):
into something that was cohesive with frameworks that then others could learn
from. But the force function of number one, the book with
a deadline for my publisher, forced me to figure that out.
And by teaching this stuff now, I'm actually
internalizing it even better. I now have a language
around what it is that I'm doing that I can then share with others. And

(46:19):
communally, we can lean learn together. We can all be lean learners in
this world and have that common knowledge. It's very similar
to what I've learned about the
Enneagram scale, about why I do what I do and who I am as a
person. And when my wife and I both learned about the enneagram. I'm an
enneagram 3, by the way. My wife is a 6. And

(46:41):
those have different meanings. And there, there are ways to
learn about those people and who they are as a result. And again,
having that common language is allowed for my wife and I just to have a
much, much better relationship because it helps us just both understand each other
better. And hopefully this book, Lean Learning and those who read it and
enjoy it, but not only that, but also take action as a result of that

(47:03):
and have more adventures because of it. I hope this really
becomes a starting point in a pivot point in the world to help
us get back to some of those roots and some of those things that were
once a part of who we were and that we've kind of lost.
So I think if we all show up and teach others, we can all be
that much better, and that's really what this is about.

(47:24):
Well, thank you, Pat. I love that idea. And just
as a side note, there was a church auction recently
as a fundraiser, and people were donating all kinds of things.
I did decide to donate, like, two
hours of ukulele lessons and was
surprised at there was demand for

(47:46):
that. And I look forward to working with the
winner of that auction. So I'll wet my,
you know, teaching, wet my teaching whistle
and see how it goes. I'm sure that I will learn a lot
just going through that process. So a big thank you
to Pat Flynn for being so

(48:09):
open with his stories and his insights. For me, the biggest takeaway is
this. We don't need more information.
We need more implementation. Pat
reminded us that learning can actually become a crutch if we're not
careful. It feels productive to do research, to watch
tutorials, to subscribe to all the podcasts. But real

(48:32):
progress only comes when we take action, especially
imperfect action. So here's my
challenge for inspired money makers this week.
Pick one area in your life or work
where you've been learning, researching, or planning, and just take
one small action. It could be launching a project,

(48:54):
making the first call, or sharing your idea with someone that you
trust. Don't overthink it. Just move forward. And
if this episode sparked something in you, let us
know in the comments or tag us online. I'd love to hear what you're
working on. A shout out to the Inspired Money production team. Excellent
segment edits and planning with Bradley John, Eagle

(49:17):
Feather, our producer and graphic animations by Chad
Lawrence. Finally, let's thank Pat once again. You
can find more about Pat -- father, husband, and lifelong learner from
San Diego. His new book "Lean Learning,"
Pat, that comes out June 3rd?
June 3rd, yes. Available for pre order now though of course,

(49:39):
if you are watching this ahead of time. Thank you. Pre order. I think you
can do that at leanlearningbook.com, correct?
You can also find Pat at
Smartpassiveincome.com and I think PatFlynn.com. Is that right? Pat Flynn.com
is another one. Yes, there's a lot of things.
Well, thank you Pat. Appreciate you being a part of

(50:01):
the Inspired Money experience. And Inspired Money
maker, thank you for joining us today. Don't miss our panel live
stream this Wednesday. That's
April
23rd. "Fine Wine Regions to Discover in Retirement:
Voyage into Viniculture." That's at 1pm

(50:22):
Eastern. Until then, do something that scares
you because that's where the magic happens. Thanks everybody.