The Art of Negotiation: Strategies for Success in Personal and Financial Matters

Episode Transcript
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(00:50):
Aloha Inspired Moneymaker. Thanks for joining me
today. If this is your first time here, welcome. If you're a
returning viewer or listener, welcome back. It's so great
to spend time together. Let's be Real
Negotiation can be intimidating. Whether it's asking for a
raise, buying a car, or even splitting vacation costs

(01:12):
with friends, a lot of us feel uncomfortable or unsure
about how to get what we want without coming off as pushy or
awkward. And that hesitation, it can cost you.
You might end up paying more, earning less, or feeling
walked over because you didn't speak up or didn't know how to handle
the conversation. It's frustrating and it can feel like the

(01:33):
deck is stacked against you, especially when the other person seems more
confident or experienced. But here's the good news.
Anyone can learn to be a great negotiator. It's
not about being the loudest voice in the room. It's about strategy,
communication, and knowing how to find solutions that work for
everyone. And today we have just the panel to show you how

(01:55):
our lineup of negotiation experts will share secrets
behind successful deals. And whether it's in the boardroom,
at the car dealership or around the dinner table, they're going to
break down proven strategies, share personal stories, and give you
practical tips on how you can start the right way. By
the end of this episode, I hope that we will all feel more

(02:18):
confident, more prepared, and ready to walk into any
negotiation knowing that we have the tools to come out on
top. So stick around. This conversation could change the way
you make decisions and advocate for yourself in every part of your
life. Before we jump in, this episode is brought to you by my
financial advisory firm, runnymede Capital Management. I want to

(02:40):
invite you to take advantage of our three minute financial plan. Head
over to InspiredMoney.fm/getplan. It just
takes three minutes and you'll get a personalized snapshot to
help kickstart your financial journey. Just
it's easy to do and afterwards I'm happy to have
a conversation with you. So let's bring in

(03:02):
our guest panelists. We have Keld Jensen.
He's a globally acclaimed negotiation strategist, author and
speaker ranked number three in the world by Global
Gurus in 2025. With over 30 years
of experience in behavioral economics and trust based deal
making, he is the founder of the award winning

(03:24):
smartenership Strategy Transforming Negotiation
Practices Worldwide. He's advised top organizations like
Lego, Rolls Royce and the Danish government and has
been recognized among the top 100 thought leaders in Trust
as well as recipient of the World Commerce and
Contracting Innovation Award. His pioneering work in

(03:47):
Nego economics emphasizes value creation
through collaboration, transparency, and trust. Keld, so
excited to have you here. Thank you for inviting me.
We're going to have fun. Also in the house is
Dr. Joshua Weiss. He's a leading
expert in negotiation, conflict resolution and leadership,

(04:09):
serving as a Senior Fellow at the Harvard Negotiation
Project and co founder of the Global Negotiation Initiative at
Harvard University. He's the Director of the
Ms. In Leadership and Negotiation at Bay Path University
and the author of multiple books, including the
book of Real World Negotiations in the forthcoming or

(04:31):
recently released Getting Back to the Five Steps to
Reviving Stalled Negotiations. Josh, welcome.
Thanks, Andy. It's a pleasure to be with you. Appreciate it. And you said you
and Keld have been crossing paths frequently. Yeah, we get
ourselves into a lot of trouble and it's a lot of fun and we have
great conversations along the way. So it's a pleasure to know him and to work

(04:52):
with them. Fantastic. We have Linda Swindling.
She's a negotiation expert, author and keynote speaker who was
recently inducted into the NSA speaker hall of
Fame. She helps leaders confidently
negotiate high stakes deals and workplace challenges using
proven strategies that drive results. With a background as a

(05:14):
successful attorney, mediator, and university professor at
the University of Texas at Dallas, Linda empowers
organizations to communicate effectively, enhance business
relationships, and ask outrageously
to achieve their goals. Linda, thanks so much for having
me. Great. I need to ask more

(05:36):
outrageously, so I look forward to the lessons
and the book. Read the book. Right?
And rounding our panel Today, we have Dr. Susan Heitler.
Am I saying that correctly? Exactly.
Dr. Susan Hitler. She's a clinical psychologist, author,
conflict resolution expert, known for her innovative therapy

(05:59):
techniques that help people, couples and families
navigate emotional and relational challenges. With best selling
books and a widely viewed TEDx talk, she
gets over 26 million readers on psychology today.
She's made a global impact in the fields of mental health, communication and
personal growth. Susan, you're here. Coming from the

(06:22):
other side of the world. Correct. And a pleasure to
join you. It's so great to have all of you here.
I look forward to having this discussion on helping us
become better negotiators so that we can be proud
to say I am a negotiator. Let's go straight
into segment one. Effective negotiation begins with

(06:44):
thorough preparation. Entering discussions with a clear strategy
enhances confidence, improves decision making and
increases the likelihood of achieving favorable outcomes.
Defining objectives and priorities is the first step.
Establishing clear priorities, knowing non negotiable terms
and identifying areas of flexibility create a structured

(07:06):
approach. Understanding your batna, your best alternative to a
negotiated agreement, ensures decisions are strategic rather than
reactive. Researching the other party's background, goals, and
constraints uncovers opportunities for alignment.
Anticipating their motivations can identify areas for compromise
and mutual benefit. A proactive concession strategy

(07:28):
ensures compromises align with key objectives without weakening
overall positioning. Strong communication skills further strengthen
negotiations. Active listening, clear messaging, and
non verbal cues build rapport and enhance understanding.
While preparation is essential, adaptability is equally
important. Unforeseen challenges may arise and the ability

(07:50):
to adjust while staying focused on core goals drives
negotiation success.
Kel, tell us a little bit about smartnership, the approach,
and how we can best prepare for negotiation.
Yeah, I love to Preparation obviously is a key

(08:12):
in any negotiation. I often say that not preparing is the same as preparing
for a failure, right? But let's take a step back even before we talk a
lot about the details in preparation, because I often say that we have to negotiate
on how to negotiate. And what is it I mean by that? Well,
you know, Adam, we actually perceive negotiation very differently, all of us.
Some perceive negotiation like playing tennis. Some people perceive negotiation like playing

(08:35):
chess. So imagine that these two people looking at negotiation that
differently enter the same conference room and start playing chess and
tennis. It's going to look awkward and weird. So part
of my preparation and the world that I'm in is actually having
people start negotiating on how we want to negotiate because we don't
negotiate the same way. United nations in New York has never declared an international

(08:56):
standard on how we have to negotiate. So it's dangerous just sitting
in your own world and do your own preparation. You really have to make sure
that the counterpart is on the same level as you and negotiate the
same way as you. So I know it sounds weird. A lot of my students
and clients, when I raised this topic the first time, look at me like I
just arrived from a different planet. But we have to sit down and negotiate how

(09:17):
to negotiate before we start the actual negotiation. How do you have that
conversation? Do you do that before meeting face to face? It
depends. If it's a really important big negotiation, let's say merger, acquisition, a
huge contract negotiation, we actually carve out time, perhaps the week
before, where the meeting is just about discussing how we're going to
negotiate Thursday next week. If it's a smaller negotiation, you can do

(09:39):
it the first 15 minutes before you dive into it. So it really depends on
how important it is and how well prepared your counterpart might be. And if you
know each other, it's the first time you're going to meet
Josh. How do we distinguish between over
preparing and maintaining flexibility to
adapt throughout a negotiation? Yeah, Andy, it's a

(10:00):
really, really important question. And I think that when people are learning to
negotiate, they tend to over prepare. And the reality is that in
all our negotiations, we're working with incomplete information. And
so that actually ends up being a bit of a recipe
for problems and challenges. Because when you lay out a plan
in your mind and then the negotiation doesn't go the way you imagined

(10:22):
and new information comes to light or gets
interjected, I often call that sort of the freak out
factor for people because they have not thought about what am I going
to do if my plan doesn't unfold in the way that I would
like. So you mentioned in your video the importance of
adaptability. And so I often talk to people about

(10:43):
thinking about contingency planning. Right. So Keld raised the
idea of chess. When you play chess, you have to
have a contingency planning mindset. You have to think a couple steps ahead,
but you also have to create different routes to the same end.
And when I help people to prepare in that way, they end up
being far more comfortable and they don't lose their sense of confidence because they

(11:06):
have different avenues if something gets blocked or
they learn something new that they didn't know. And that is always going to be
the case in negotiation. You're always going to have new
information that gets put in front of you. And in this way,
you kind of train yourself to not be
surprised if you will and expect the unexpected.

(11:30):
Linda, you advocate for asking outrageously,
how do we get over our fear
of negotiating? That is a great question.
The biggest suggestion is negotiate with strangers. Go
practice on strangers. When I had young
kids, little tykes, toys were so expensive

(11:53):
and I didn't want to go bargain in my own neighborhood. So I would
drive over across town and practice
there. Practice everywhere you go. Because here's what
happens in this preparation. It's a mindset. And it
feels really the same to negotiate with some of these
big dollar cases as it does face to face

(12:15):
with somebody saying, can I buy that toy for less, you know, less
money. You don't want to have those emotions for the very
first time. When it's a big deal. You want to practice feeling a little
uneasy, practice asking for a little bit more, ask them to take a little bit
less when it's safe. You surprised
me. I thought you were going to tell me to practice with my kids, with

(12:36):
my wife. Those are tougher. Negotiations
sometimes, aren't they? That's my department.
It is? Yeah. Okay, so let's go to Susan then. Let's go to
your department. You've observed many parallels between business
negotiation and couples therapy. Same rules for
preparation. Well, people come into therapy because

(12:59):
they're having problems. They're not getting along together. There's
some issues that they differ on. So in the business
world, you call it negotiation. It doesn't
quite fit for home. You might call it conflict resolution. You might
call it shared decision making
or collaborative problem solving. It's

(13:21):
the identical steps, whichever
of those terms you use. The bottom line is that
couples who know how to do this process,
they live happily ever after, they enjoy each other, they continue
loving each other. There's no fighting. Couples that don't
have the skills, both the

(13:44):
communication skills that are safe make
talking safe. And beyond that, the three steps
of resolving differences. The couples that don't have
those, marriage is much harder, much more
fragile. Talk a little bit about the
book Getting to Yes and how that influenced you

(14:06):
in your book. Oh, yes. Well, I was a little mad when
that came out because I'd been having a very similar set
of thoughts as I'd been thinking at that time about
conflict resolution. I was newly married and
I decided I better figure out this business.
So when I was first married, our way of conflict resolution was

(14:28):
he used to go up on the balcony, and I'd go as far away from
that on the bottom floor, and we kind of talk from
there. I've learned a lot since then. When
the book came out, Getting to Yes,
I realized I have different words for the same
phenomena. The words in getting to yes are

(14:51):
very effective for business situations.
Individuals, couples. We don't talk about
the interests that lie behind solution,
behind what is it positions. Instead,
I, in my first book, which was called From Conflict to
Resolution, I proposed a parallel

(15:13):
vocabulary for home, which was there
are initial ideas of what people would like to do, of
plans of action. Then people have to dip down a
level to explore the underlying
concerns because
therapists think. And personal

(15:33):
issues we think of in terms of looking deeper as
opposed to like a cards metaphor, looking at the
interests that lie behind. Physician. That second
step, though, of clarifying whether we call it interests or underlying
concerns has to move then to finding
solutions. Solutions are win win,

(15:55):
just like in getting to yes to the extent that they're
responsive to everybody's underlying
concern. His, hers, theirs,
however many. And that's the same as in getting
to yes. So the bottom line is I appreciate the book very
Much both for all it's done for the world and

(16:18):
it's helped me clarify the ideas that were nascent for
me at the time. Andy, can I just say a quick word about getting
to yes. You know, I think me getting to yes changed
the landscape and the perspective on negotiation. You know, I think before
that people had an approach to negotiation that we often
call primarily distributive or positional where people

(16:40):
would go back and forth and barter and haggle and things along those lines.
And getting to yes sort of changed that and said, look, if you're going to
be negotiating with the same people, the same companies over
and over again, does that strategy really help you? Does it really make the most
sense? And in the trainings that I do, and I'm sure it's similar with Keld
and Linda. You know, when I ask people how many of your

(17:03):
negotiations one offs, you know you're going to negotiate with this person and then never
see them again versus with the same people or the same
companies. Slash organizations or governments.
Usually it's about 90% is with the same
people, same organization, same companies over time and about
10% one off. And if that's the reality, before getting

(17:24):
to yes, there wasn't really an approach that
thought differently about negotiation. And I think that was really the genius behind
it. And I think that an entire industry has been built around that because
of that reality, that in good business you have to
be thinking about your short term needs, but also the long term relationship.
Because over time negotiations should get

(17:47):
better, deals should get better, you should maximize value
because you're more willing to share information. And it was
a really important mind shift and I
think why it's still on the bestseller list 45 years
later. Yeah. And Josh,
if you think about long term relationships,

(18:09):
boy, husbands and wives definitely need those skills.
There's a long term, hopefully relationship
for sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Let's go to segment two. We're going to talk about the power of
communication. Successful negotiation goes beyond
presenting arguments. It's about strategic communication,

(18:31):
active listening and in reading, non verbal cues. These
skills build rapport, clarify misunderstandings and create
win win solutions. Active listening ensures both sides feel
heard and valued. Engaging fully, paraphrasing key
points and asking clarifying questions demonstrate respect
and encourage openness. This approach uncovers underlying

(18:53):
concerns and strengthens trust. Persuasion techniques enhance
negotiation effectiveness. Storytelling makes positions
relatable while framing aligns messages with the other party's
values. Strategic concessions build goodwill and
encourage reciprocity. Non verbal communication is equally
critical. Open body language, eye Contact and

(19:14):
mirroring establish rapport. While a calm tone reinforces
authority, observing the other party's gestures and
expressions provides insight into their mindset. By
refining communication strategies, negotiators gain
confidence, influence outcomes and create agreements that
serve both sides.

(19:39):
Kel, should we be thinking about concessions when we're
having a negotiation or with your
nego economics? Negotiation economics.
Is it not really like what you're giving up?
Yes and no. Once again, let me take another step back
and say why do organizations negotiate? Now I call myself a

(20:02):
commercial negotiator. So I let Susan cover the private part and I talk
about business, I assume, just like Josh and Linda.
And what I say is why is the two organizations negotiate with
each other? They do it for one reason only and that is to create and
distribute value. I repeat that, to create and distribute value.
And what I often see in some negotiators world

(20:24):
is that they feel they have to argue a lot so they go in there
and they don't negotiate. I call it haggling. They argue, you know, we should get
a better price because of or we should get better payment terms
because of. And this segment obviously talk about
communication of active listening. It's one of the secrets to be
a great negotiator and I'm sure that the panel will agree with me. Is

(20:46):
that listening, really listening, not listening because you want to
prepare what you're going to say yourself, but really listening to the value, the
background, the interest of the counterpart and then asking questions.
If I should put just one word on what separates the great
negotiator from the not so good negotiator is the ability to really
listen and ask qualified questions. So for instance,

(21:08):
if you came to me and said I would like to change delivery time, I
should not reply, we can't do that or we would love to do that instead
of should ask what is the value to you? What is it you want to
change that delivery time and you know, ask for something in return. So
you just use the word concession. I, I'm not a big fan of
concessions. Unilateral concessions especially are dangerous because

(21:29):
if I get something away for free, you may misunderstand that and
feel that, hey, that was easy. If I started this negotiation giving you 3%
discount, you might be feeling, hey, we've been sitting here for five minutes. If I
got 3% that easy, why wouldn't I get 5 or 7?
So unilateral concession is a no go in my world. But even more importantly,
I just want to repeat that ask question and truly truly listen.

(21:51):
And I feel that's the last thing. Then I don't want to talk more because
we have lots of bright people on the panel, but we have lost the ability
to listen as human beings. I don't know whether we should blame social media or
what, but we have a tendency to be worse off listening to each other than
ever before, and that's really a key thing. Dr. Dan
Shapiro from Harvard has a lot of knowledge about that and called it the tribal

(22:11):
effect. So if anybody's Interested, dive into Dr. Dan Shapiro.
And if you don't mind me backing on to what Kelt said is,
you know, it's living in the question. It's when in doubt, you ask a
question. And that's. You had said, you know, why did we prepare it so we
can be present? What I like is a definition of
negotiations. It seems to take some pressure off my students and off the,

(22:34):
you know, people I've worked with is it's a discussion aimed
at reaching an agreement. So it's a discussion. We're not trying to beat
each other up. We're not trying to out strategize each other. We are
really aiming at trying to agree it may not work.
We may walk away. Our agreement may be we can't have a deal right now.
But that's. That Oxford Dictionary definition is a

(22:56):
really good one. That kind of takes some pressure off and makes it more of
that conversation you were talking about.
How does one react to if you feel
like the other side's being too aggressive in their
negotiation. I
can go with that question. Sure.

(23:19):
It takes two to escalate. For
the most part. If one person begins to escalate,
there's nothing like, excuse me, I need to go get a drink of
water. Take a break. I tell my
clients, anger is a stop sign. What do you do at a stop
sign? Hopefully, you stop. So if somebody's

(23:42):
escalating, take a break or pause or change
the topic and bring the tone down.
Why do people escalate? They escalate in order to
dominate and get their way. That's not collaborative problem
solving. I like what Linda said. It should be a
discussion, a collaborative dialogue. And as soon

(24:04):
as the tone intensifies or there's negative
energy coming out, you, da, da, da, da, or there's
no listening. Kel, you were right on. In terms of couples
and families, listening and tone are probably the
two critical dimensions. Josh, you wanted to say
something? No. I mean, I very much agree with Susan. And one of the kind

(24:26):
of things that I often will say to folks that I'm working with or
whomever is the one thing that you have
control over in a negotiation is your reaction and your response.
And so managing that is really critical. And what
the other negotiator does is important, but it's also not
defining. And so you can control how you act and how you

(24:49):
approach things. And I think it's really important that
again, if you go back to the notion about incomplete information, which
I think is such an important dynamic, you know, we
gather information by asking good questions to Keld's point, right?
That when we ask a question, an open ended kind of
question, when we're kind of probing and thinking, often we get

(25:12):
information back that is really, really valuable and it helps
us to sort of think about what's possible
given where we are and what the circumstances are. And
so I'm a really big fan of that. And I think listening is hard because
we tend to have a internal conversation that's going
on in our mind during a negotiation or during any kind of conflict

(25:35):
or whatever it might be. You know, we start to ready our
response and when we do that, we're no longer listening. And I
think that's a classic mistake that a lot of people make. And what really gets
in the way of us actually really listening well is, is, you
know, starting to think when somebody, especially when somebody says something that you don't
agree with or maybe that you think their perception is off,

(25:58):
you're thinking in your mind, I've got to correct that perception before
anything else happens. And while you're doing that, nothing else is getting
in. So I think it's very important to understand that dynamic and
to kind of clear your mind. I've worked with folks who do a lot of
improv and training people in thinking to be present.
And one of the things that really comes out of that is that you

(26:20):
do clear your mind and you're not starting to think down the
road, but you're actually in the moment and really listening
carefully. And in the little clip. Andy, last quick thing, which
is you mentioned stories. I'm a very big fan of
stories. I think they have a way of disarming the other negotiator.
I've had scenarios where people often say, what do I do when I'm trying

(26:42):
to collaborate with somebody and they're being very competitive? And
the best response I have is share a story of
what something could look like or you've had a past negotiation
that's similar to this and here's how you dealt with that kind of a
situation, because people tend to view stories very differently. And
interestingly enough, there's some really fascinating research

(27:04):
by some folks at Stanford that say that when you start telling people a story
in a realm like negotiation, they begin to see themselves
in that story, even though they weren't even there, but they
imagine what that might look like. Andy, I wanted to
add one more thing. I wrote another book called Stop Complainers and Energy
Drainers, and it's how to Negotiate Work Drama to Get

(27:26):
More Done. And the research behind that was really
surprising because I really had one or two people that kind of irritated
me, and they would get angry, and I felt different ways
around them. But there were actually more ways that people
showed anger. We found five big ways that people could
show and show emotion, and it was usually

(27:48):
around a need not being filled.
So, you know, we had whiners and we had the complicators,
and we had these really aggressive,
assertive people, and we had, you know, and we went through all of those. But
the big thing was being curious. So when you're asking
questions, your mindset is really, huh, I wonder why this person is usually

(28:09):
calm, is doing this. Wonder what need they're trying to fill.
And that helps you stay calm yourself. If you can just say, okay, I'm like
a reporter. I'm just going to ask questions, see if I can figure out,
you know, is this person overreacting to get attention, or
do they feel like they're not connected, or do they feel like things aren't getting
done or things aren't organized or stable, what's going on?

(28:32):
And if you can live there, that helps you not engage,
which is really, you know, that's the beauty about negotiation, is if
you can get to reality and kind of think, Think more logically, you
can probably help solve the problem or help them see a way through the
problem. Keld does the active listening and
asking good questions, is that the gateway to building trust, which is so

(28:55):
important? Absolutely. And showing an interest in
the counterpart, Obviously, I don't know if any of you had tried to
travel to Asia, and I mentioned Asia specifically because their
understanding of hospitality so much more advanced than here in the West. So let's
assume, Andy, that you check into the Oriental in Bangkok, right? Known as one of
the better hotel in the world, and you check in and you go to a

(29:17):
room and you're unhappy with your room, so you go back to the reception at
the Oriental to complain. Now, how do you think the.
The staff at the reception at the Oriental Oriental are going to behave? Are
they going to argue with you and say, oh, Andy, shut up. You're checked into
one of the best hotels in the world. Go back to your room where you
can leave. No, they're not going to do that. Are they going to agree with
you and say, you're absolutely right and you got the worst room in the entire

(29:39):
hot. No, they're not going to do that. What they're going to do is they're
saying, andy, I understand you feel there's a problem. Let me see
if I can help you deal with that problem. You feel you got. Did you
get that? They don't agree, they don't disagree. They just show empathy. Right. So
I understand my counterpart. And what I often find,
Andy, that a lot of negotiators who messes up big time is that

(30:01):
they guess or they assume what the counterpart wants. I
often sit with clients, they're saying, well, we know what they want. And I say,
how do you know that? Well, they always want that. Okay, so you know now
what they always wanted is also what they want tomorrow. We are not allowed to
assume our guests. We need to know. So back to what we just talked about
right now. Questions and listening and really showing

(30:22):
true empathy is essential to be successful in any
negotiation. Thank you, I appreciate
that. Now, now I want to go to the Mandarin Oriental
and live my best life. Let's go to segment
three. Emotions and mindset shape negotiation

(30:42):
outcomes, influencing confidence, decision making
and adaptability under pressure. Managing these
factors helps negotiators remain composed, think
strategically and secure favorable agreements. Fear and
anxiety can undermine confidence, but preparation reduces
uncertainty and builds self assurance. Reframing

(31:04):
stress as heightened awareness enhances focus rather than
triggering pressure. Positive self talk and skill building further
strengthen confidence, leading to more effective interactions.
Cognitive biases also impact decision making. For
example, loss aversion can lead to risk averse choices, while
anchoring skews perception by placing undue weight on initial figures.

(31:26):
Recognizing these biases helps negotiators stay objective.
Emotional intelligence is key in reading the other party's
responses, managing conflicts and maintaining a cooperative
atmosphere. Mindfulness techniques such as controlled breathing
and reflection improve focus and reduce emotional
interference by managing psychological influences.

(31:47):
Negotiators navigate discussions with clarity, confidence and
strategic control.
Foreign.
Linda, you started talking about emotion in the previous
segment. What advice do you have for
people dealing with anxiety and fear? Over

(32:09):
rejection over getting a no. Yeah, I haven't practiced
listening to no. So I will say, okay, close your
eyes and here I'm going to say something to you. You're ready. Don't do it
if you're driving. No, I'm not going to do that. No. That's a crazy
offer. No, no, no. And then I say, open your eyes. Did
you survive that? If you're not hearing no, you're not asking for

(32:32):
enough. We need to get used to the fact that people are going to say
no at times. And then we do. When we hear them say no, we don't
shut down. We just ask them about it. So back to the live
in the question. I heard you say no. Can you tell
me about that? And often people will give you an
explanation. You'll think, oh, my gosh, I didn't know that. Or they

(32:54):
didn't know. They didn't know something that I need to educate them
on. But just get, you know, start asking a lot
so that when you hear it the first time, it doesn't shock you.
Josh, I want to ask you, I've heard you talk about
emotions in negotiating. I think oftentimes
we hear about, oh, you have to, you know, don't

(33:17):
show your emotions. Don't show your emotions. Don't be emotional.
I think you say, really, you have to use your emotion
effectively and realistically. Yeah, listen,
human beings are emotional and logical creatures. If I told you we
should keep logic out of the negotiation, you would think I was an idiot and
you'd wonder why I'm on this panel. It's the same thing with

(33:39):
emotions. I think people get into trouble when they try to suppress them. They are
part of who we are, and emotions emerge because we care,
because things are important to us. So you get into
trouble when you try to push them aside and act as if nothing is
wrong. And unfortunately for most human beings, we're not
very good at hiding our emotions. We kind of wear them out there. And

(34:02):
if you learn to look at nonverbal behaviors and things
along those lines, like, it's easy to tell that there's a problem and that the
words are not matching the actions of the individual.
So I think it's much better to spend effort
and time, which is what it takes to become emotionally intelligent
and to bring your emotions to the table in a productive way. You know, I

(34:24):
don't hesitate to say, you know, I have to tell you that I'm a bit
frustrated with where we are so that they know the other
negotiator knows where I am and I'm not destroying the process.
I'm not blowing anything up. I'm simply saying, look, I'm frustrated because
I thought that we would, you know, there was more Common ground here or there
were. There were more opportunities to make headway and we

(34:44):
haven't. And that, frankly, from my point of view, typically opens
up a productive conversation about, well, why are you so frustrated? What
were you expecting when you came in here or whatever it might be? And so
I'm, I believe that it's really important to bring your emotions in that
way where you're having them, you're expressing them, but you're having
them with some control so that. So that you don't

(35:07):
push the process in a direction that isn't very productive. And
I think that's what people tend to think of when they hear emotions. And negotiation
is the downside. But there are emotions that drive
us. Passion and things along those lines. There are emotions
that are productive and important when it comes to negotiation. So,
Josh, you get a plus on what to do

(35:29):
with negative emotion like flu. Frustrated.
As parents often say to kids, use your words.
In other words, if you say, I'm getting frustrated,
even though there may be some fairly strong emotion within you, you
stay calm and you're sharing verbally what's going
on. That's a whole different story

(35:51):
from in your voice and in
your intensity, acting out the
emotion. So that was brilliant. I will say,
very helpful. The other point I want to make
validates the importance of emotions and what Josh said
about they're there for a reason.

(36:13):
Emotions are like traffic signals, anxiety.
That means there's a danger ahead. So calm down and figure out what
the danger is. And, hmm, what do you do at a blinking
yellow light is what anxiety is like. You slow
down, you look around, you gather more information,
and you proceed, but with caution.

(36:36):
So anger is a red light. Whether you do it, a red light or a
stop sign, you stop. If you proceed when you're angry,
you're just going to antagonize everybody else. And
also your brain will work less effectively. Your frontal
lobes turn off to the extent that your
anger turns on

(36:58):
depression. That's another one. Oh, that's
a sign that you've given up on something that you really want.
So ask yourself, wait, what do I want that I'm not getting?
It can come out. That question can come out
both with anger and
with depression. There's something that I want that I'm not

(37:21):
getting, or there's something that I'm getting that I don't want.
That same pair of questions are
appropriate either when you're feeling angry or you're feeling
discouraged, depressed, down. Thank you. I appreciate
that. Especially since conflicts at home seem to be
Potentially even more emotionally charged when we're. When we

(37:43):
have conflict with kids or our spouse. Yes. People tend
to act better at work than at home.
I don't know. I was an employment attorney, and I saw
some pretty bad actors sometimes. One thing I wanted
to kind of support with Josh and
Susan was I trust people more when they're

(38:07):
telling me their emotion than when I can tell there's something going wrong. Most
of us, we can see it, as you said, but if you don't say, look,
I'm feeling frustrated about this, I'm surprised, or I'm a little bit nervous
based on what you just said, then we. We know that we can trust them,
that they're telling us the truth instead of hiding something.
Kelda, how do emotional or how do emotions

(38:29):
influence financial decision making and negotiations according to
behavioral economics? Oh, a lot.
I always laugh when I read Financial Times, the Washington Post or New York Times
or what have you where it says that company A have done a deal with
company B. And I apologize for my language, but I think that's a lot of
BS that never happened. That was just that make a deal with Susan. And

(38:50):
if Susan was replaced by Maria, that deal could have fallen apart. So all
business is human. Let me start by saying that we have done intensive
studies on trust. Trust is one of my cornerstones when we talk
about negotiation. And one thing I want to say right away is I think we
should verbalize trust as well. I often encourage my clients to have trust
on the agenda. So we start off talking about trust. What happened, Linda? If you

(39:12):
and I are negotiating and you have less trust in me, you're allowed to verbalize
that, and I should be allowed to do the same thing towards you. That's one
thing. The other thing, back to trust. We have found in our studies.
And I just stand on the shoulders of people way bigger than me. One of
them is Dr. Kahneman, who have studied behavioral
economics. And I'm sure most of our listeners know about Kahneman. If they don't, please

(39:33):
study whatever he's done already, because he actually
clearly identified that we'd rather do business with somebody we like and trust that
has a worse product with a higher price than we would do business with someone
we don't like and don't trust that has the most competitive product at the lowest
price. And I did my doctorate studies
studying trust and negotiation and AI and we'd actually

(39:55):
capitalized and put a value on trust and hang on now up to
34%. So that means that if we are
trusting an Individual, a product, a company. We are
willing to pay up to 34% more just based
on that emotion. And that is obviously an emotion. So the last
thing I want to say, by the way as well, Andy, is that now the,

(40:16):
the, the headline of the segment here was Controlling a Psychology Game.
I don't like the word game in negotiation. I don't think we're playing games with
each other. I do have colleagues out there that are, you know, publishing books,
saying you should do this to alpen over the counterpart and show this and blah,
blah, blah, whatever. I don't think it's a game. I think it's human beings sitting
down. We should just be honest, transparent, and figure out how can

(40:38):
you and I make two plus two equal more than four. My job is
not trying to outmaneuver you and win at your expense if your purpose is not
to win at my expense. And we can only do that by collaborating,
creating trust and be transparent. Without becoming naive, though. But I
think that's really essential to succeed in negotiation as well.
I like what you say about translation trust. I

(41:00):
was struck how much that coincides with an emotion
that we haven't talked about, which is, I'm not sure if it's an emotion,
but positivity, people who
exude interest,
enjoyment, playfulness,
oh, that was a good idea. Appreciation,

(41:23):
those first of all, those help everybody stay calmer and think
more openly. They also engender trust. They also
engender generosity. So I
think paying lots of attention to how much
positivity people are giving off in a
negotiation makes a massive difference.

(41:45):
I'm curious though, about your thoughts on that. In the
business world, when you like somebody, and usually we like
people who give off positivity
if it's real. I'm not talking about false positivity.
No, I love what you said, Susan. I agree with
everything. A big study was done as well. You know, the usual car

(42:07):
salesman here in the US when you go in and want to sell your car,
right, and they start criticizing your car, it's terrible and it doesn't look good, it's
been driving too long and you know, I can't give you a good price because
you got a horrible trade in there. They actually found
that if that car salesman, old school car salesman, did the opposite, but start
praising your car, what a wonderful car you got. You maintained it so

(42:28):
well, they actually got a way better deal than the car salesman. Start
criticizing your product. So I completely love and embrace what you said about being
positive. I agree with you completely. I will quote
that study with my. Clients, that car
salesperson has skinny children, if that's what they're
doing on the used car.

(42:50):
I think part of your positivity, and sometimes you have to be a
cheerleader for the process. I think we can get this done. Keep
at it. You've given some good experiences. It's that,
Susan, but it's also seeing possibilities so people can be
positive and not expand their scope or look around or
even consider something else. So I think that goes with

(43:12):
being willing to listen to somebody else's point of view or consider
possibilities. You all didn't come into the room with or on the zoom call
with. I have one question for you all before moving
on this idea of a
psychological game. What I'm hearing all of you saying is that it's not so
much a psychological game where you're trying to manipulate somebody. It's

(43:34):
more a collaborative effort between two parties to get
to a favorable outcome. If the other side
views it as manipulation, a psychological
game, what's a judo move for you to try
to change the conversation to be more
collaborative? You know, Andy, maybe I'll just jump in

(43:56):
quick. One of the things that I found actually is
there are a lot of people that don't know there's another way to negotiate. They
actually think this is how they learn to negotiate, and this is what
they think they're supposed to do. So for me,
what I typically will do is say, listen, you know, we can go down that
road and we might be able to, you know, reach some deal, but it's not

(44:16):
going to be the best deal. And I'm not actually really interested in just
going through the motions. I actually think we could do a lot better if there's
a way in which we could figure out how to collaborate.
And much of the time people say, what do you mean? Or they
might stay with, I don't want to collaborate. I don't see you as a partner
here. And negotiation is one process

(44:39):
about achieving your objective. And I think it's really important for your listeners
to understand. For me, my perspective on negotiation is negotiation is not
about reaching agreement, is about meeting your objective as best as possible.
And if you sit down and go through a process and you say, you know
what? Through this, I've come to realize that I can actually
perhaps exercise my batna, or whatever it might be, which is my

(45:01):
best alternative to a negotiated agreement, and go elsewhere, because
that actually meets my needs better. And what's interesting is when you
change the frame of what it is that you're doing at the negotiation
table. I see this with my students and people that I trained. The minute I
tell them negotiation is not about reaching agreement, they're like,
wait, what? And there's a big sigh of relief

(45:23):
because there's something called agreement bias that is very real, that people
believe that if their goal is to reach agreement in
negotiation, they will do so. And they will do so
in a way that doesn't meet their objectives. It's just to get
an agreement because that's what they think they should be doing.
And so I think with people who you're

(45:46):
up against, for example, in that way, who have this
orientation that negotiation is this game, it's a
manipulative one, et cetera. Start with the notion there's a
different way to do this and that would be your preference. Especially if it's a
scenario where the long term relationship is part of the deal
and matters greatly, you can begin to show them why and that

(46:07):
you can reveal some information. You know, I typically will say to
somebody, you know, if I want them to do something, I'm
going to take the first step. It's a small step because I want to be
cautious, but I want them to understand what I'm trying to get
at. So I'll say, look, I'm going to share something with you that's important to
us that you may not know. And my hope is that you're going to reciprocate.

(46:30):
And if we can get into that mode. Now we're doing what Keld was talking
about, which is back and forth, reciprocity, sharing of
information so that we can not just reach a deal, but reach the
best deal. Anyone
else. I call them on it. I say, wow,
that's. We can't. I mean, just what you just said, Josh, but

(46:52):
that sounded a lot like positioning or that sounded a lot like. And
I'll tell a tactic. I said, I'm really here interested in a long term
relationship and whether it's with me doing this particular deal or
something else for my client, you know, I want to leave
with a better relationship than when we started. So let's start again.
Tell me what really is a win for you. Tell me what you were

(47:14):
really trying to seek. And, and if we can't do it, I'll be honest with
you and tell you. So I, again, I try to be very
honest with people because that's, that's your credibility. Also, my last
name is Swindling. Did y'all see that name? Not easy.
You're tough, Kel. You had something to Say yes.
I love what everybody is saying and completely agree. I

(47:38):
think it's very important to understand that a lot of people negotiate
what I would call very old school in a very old school fashion. Not because
they choose to, but because, as Josh said, they don't know the
alternative. So they're basically unconsciously incompetent. They don't know what they
don't know. And just to segue into the next segment, not to take your
role as the host here, Andy, but I was doing a workshop

(48:00):
just a few weeks ago for a Fortune 500 organization here in the
US and I talk a lot about trust and transparency and honesty and
all that. I had an executive in that class who was
not joking, raised his hand and said, isn't it unethical to
be honest and transparent in negotiation?
And I was thinking, this is where we are right now in the world. There

(48:22):
are people out there who actually think that negotiation is about
manipulating the counterpart. And I don't know where they get it from. I'm pretty
sure most parents are not raising their kids to lie and bluff and
manipulate. So they're getting it from somewhere else. And could be some
books out there, it could be some Hollywood movies. I don't know what it is,
but. But there are some people and they don't actually do it because they're bad

(48:43):
or want to be bad, but they just don't. They don't know. It's just that
the alternative route. I like what you say
because sometimes we have to recognize,
oh, the person I'm talking with is
culturally or personality wise not
able to do collaborative win win problem

(49:04):
solving, in which case find another
person to work with. It's a little difficult. If you're
a spouse and you have a spouse who's not
willing to listen, who just wants his or her way, who uses
anger, that's a recipe for divorce. And in the
countries of the world, countries also have to

(49:26):
get along together. And if one
country says no, I'm going to bomb you or I'm going to kill your
people to get what I want, or what I want is for
you to disappear and I'll just take all the land. Thank you very
much. You can't negotiate. And then power
is what makes the decision. Thank you, Susan. Before

(49:49):
moving to the next segment, I just want to say thank you to viewers who
are out there, Kevin, Luis, Simone, and then mention that
Dario even shared a Spotify
link with a great episode of Josh
Weiss talking about storytelling. So I will leave that
in the show. Notes. Let's go to segment 4. Ethical

(50:11):
negotiation centers on fairness, transparency and long
term relationship building. Negotiators who approach discussions
with integrity, foster trust and create lasting agreements.
Honesty and transparency Establish credibility. Providing
truthful information and avoiding misrepresentation. Prevent
misunderstandings and set a positive tone. Clear communication

(50:34):
about intentions, constraints enhances trust.
Respect and empathy are essential. Actively listening,
acknowledging concerns and valuing diverse perspectives
lead to solutions that serve both parties interests rather than
one sided gains. Seeking reasonable compromises rather
than pursuing an unfair advantage Strengthens professional and

(50:56):
personal relationships paving the way for future collaboration,
preparation and accountability. Ability Uphold ethical standards,
understanding negotiation dynamics, defining moral boundaries and
maintaining consistency. Demonstrate reliability holding
oneself accountable. Ensures trust and prevents conflicts by
prioritizing ethical principles. Negotiators secure strong

(51:19):
agreements and build a reputation for integrity.
Kel, you got us started talking about ethics and trust. Can you
talk a little bit, I guess data or support wise? You have a
one pager that you say is really

(51:39):
helpful where people promise not to block or lie.
Yes, that is true. We have kind of a code of
conduct in negotiation that we share both with clients and
use in negotiations as well. So we present the code of conduct
to the counterpart before we start negotiating that lists the number of items

(51:59):
that we believe that we should behave accordingly
to. Now I talked about trust already and I can talk about
trust for days here. So let me do it very, very brief.
Assume Andy, that I am selling an airport here, right?
And I've been selling that to you for years. And we've been working together for
six or seven years. You like me as a supplier, we're very happy with each

(52:21):
other. And you know, it's been going absolutely perfectly. You are buying
hundreds of these airports every single year. Now suddenly what happens, Andy,
is a new supplier pops up on the market and offering the exact same product,
the exact same AirPod. But this new supplier, you get this weird
stomach sensation. You don't really like that individual and you don't really trust that
individual. You know that happens sometimes. Back to emotions as we talked about a few

(52:42):
minutes ago. Now the big question here is Andy, who would you prefer to do
business with? The one you've been working with for 6 years you like and trust
and the new one that pops up that you don't like and don't trust.
However, the new one you don't like and don't trust is 1%
cheaper. Now we've been repeating this study over and over again and
we found that people are willing to pay up to 34%

(53:03):
more from a simple product like this. One from a supplier
they trust and like compared to the one they don't trust and don't like. And
the funny part is that it is happening in our subconscious
world. So what happens is, from a psychology point of view, we find the
excuse to add the emotional part, to
tell our boss or superior or spouse or whatever. Then we find

(53:26):
some facts that prove that our emotional decision was absolutely right.
So back to the topic of this segment. The trust
and the power and the fairness in negotiation is essential. And
it's not just because it's a nice thing to have. It has a monetary
value. And I attack the whole discussion about trust from a
monetary value because otherwise people just, you know, shake, shake their head

(53:48):
and said, yeah, yeah, it's a good thing to have. But the second we can
measure it in a, in a spreadsheet, suddenly people. Pay attention,
money talks. LINDA does that align with the studies that
you've done that you have to like the person? Well,
sometimes you don't like them, but you can appreciate them and respect
them. And I like to call it wintegrity or winning with

(54:10):
integrity. You can trust that I'm going to do what I said I'm going to
do. So when I'm negotiating with someone, yes,
definitely I to like them, a third of, in our studies, a third
of the people will flat out turn you down, will say no to you
if they don't like, trust or respect you, or you're not
polite, you're not considerate. So one

(54:32):
way to help that is to think about how would this
be a durable agreement? You know, how can I trust this person
to ethically do what they say they're going to do? And
that's, that's pretty important. And if you
don't have that trust, you don't think that they really do have that
integrity, then you're probably going to put a lot more effort into monitoring

(54:54):
it and holding them accountable. So where it comes to
integrity and winning and having that ethical and
going, you know, and combining those two, it takes a lot less
effort. If you have built that trust, if you like and trust and respect
them, and if you feel like they do the same thing, that they're not going
to burn you if a deal goes bad and you're not in the room to

(55:16):
protect the deal. Josh, what are some
of the pressing or most pressing ethical dilemmas negotiators face
today? Well, I think one of the things is that, you
know, negotiators are very susceptible as
human beings to biases. And we have lots of ways
of justifying our behavior. I actually just published a book

(55:38):
called Getting Back to the Table where I explore. The
book is really about setbacks and failures in negotiation and how do you learn from
them. And one of the things that I talk about is actually that there are
a lot of biases that get in our way and prevent us from learning because
we're very busy protecting our reputation or
not wanting to confront the fact that we failed.

(56:01):
And so biases are a really important one. And it's interesting.
I teach negotiation, one of the things that we do around ethics.
There's a professor named Richard Schell who talks about
three different schools of negotiation. The poker school, the
idealist school, and the pragmatist school. The poker school
is one where people will lie and deceive and cheat

(56:23):
and hold their cards back and things like that. The idealist
is that they're completely open in their negotiations and they
want to share information and things like that. And then the pragmatist sort of sits
in between, and they might say, well, if
I have to do a little white lie to get
where I need to go, that's okay. Stuff like that, right? And you might not

(56:45):
be too shocked to know that when I ask people to tell me, where
do they fall? The vast majority will say, I'm in the idealist
school. Very few admit that they're in the poker school.
And then you get a few people in the pragmatist realm. Right?
Part of this is how we view ourselves right, and how we

(57:06):
manage that ethical line, because we do come up against
lots of ethical challenges and fine lines in
negotiation. And I think one of the important things is to be
pretty honest with yourself about what you're doing and
why. And, you know, my grandmother always used to say
to me, you have your reputation in life. That's pretty much

(57:27):
it. And if you tarnish it, you're going to lose in
the end. And that's always been in the back of my mind,
because I think when you're negotiating, we live in a small world,
Whether it's social media or whatever it might be, right. The world is
small, and people find out about your
behavior and about your practices. And so you have to be really careful.

(57:51):
While you might feel like, oh, I'm going to just do this, and no one's
going to really notice or nobody's going to really care, it doesn't always
work out that way. And it's not easy, by the way. I mean, there are
these lines that get blurry
and, you know, in terms of achieving our objectives and things along those
lines. But it is really important that you manage the ethical

(58:13):
considerations carefully because they can come back to haunt
you and you know, they can impact the relationships that you
have going forward in personal. Life and
personal relationships and families. The ultimate
ethical issue is am I for myself
alone or am I also for you?

(58:35):
So the process of win win negotiating
or conflict resolution or problem solving is a
profoundly ethical skill and
endeavor in a positive way. So you can, if you are
accustomed to really listening, so what are your concerns
in this situation? And you're accustomed to putting my concerns

(58:57):
out on the table. And then we're really looking for a
solution set with pieces responsive to all the
concerns. And I put my hand in a column
because we're not making my concerns versus
your concerns. If you're really being ethical in the sense
of genuinely looking for something that works well for both of you,

(59:20):
all the concerns go in one column. Your concern
becomes a concern of mine. My concerns are a concern of yours.
So we're listing them like one list of
bullet points and then we're looking for a solution
that works for both of us or all of us. That is
a profoundly ethical exercise

(59:41):
phenomenon. Thank you.
Let's bring it home. We're going to go to the last segment about everyday
negotiation. Negotiation skills extend to
everyday financial decisions. Whether negotiating a salary,
reducing bills, or making major purchases. Strategic
techniques can lead to savings and better outcomes for salary

(01:00:03):
negotiations. Research industry benchmarks highlight personal
contributions and articulate value. Clearly choosing
the right timing and preparing alternatives boosts leverage
for bills and service contracts. Reviewing costs and comparing
competitor rates create a strong starting point. Contacting
providers, inquiring about promotions and escalating requests

(01:00:25):
often lead to better deals. Large purchases such as cars
and appliances require thorough market research. Research
techniques like the foot in the door approach. Securing small concessions
before making larger requests help secure better terms.
Demonstrating willingness to walk away adds bargaining power. By
practicing these skills, individuals strengthen financial stability,

(01:00:47):
reduce expenses, and make smarter purchasing decisions
leading to long term financial benefits.
Kel, you said that the smartenership approach, it's
largely applied to commercial big
companies buying millions of pieces or

(01:01:10):
thousands of pieces of
earpods. Can you use it? How do you use
it in your everyday life? Oh, yeah, absolutely.
First and foremost, I would encourage everybody listening to
start negotiating. I often found that Americans
that I'm generalizing are barking hunters. They don't negotiate, they don't challenge a price.

(01:01:31):
They just go into a store and then they look at the suggested retail price
and think, hey, that's, that's the price, I'm often saying, well, it's not a price
dictated by law, is it? So obviously it's up for negotiation if you are
meeting somebody who got the mandate to negotiate. Let me give you a quick example
of my concept of negotiation economics. If you go in to buy,
let's say a suit, right? That's what I do. I go

(01:01:52):
in and buy a suit. Instead of asking for a discount of 20%, I, I
find asking for a discount being unintelligent because that's,
that's a win lose game, right? I'm gaining a discount and
so they're losing the 20% and I'm gaining the 20%.
Instead of doing that, I could be saying, well, if I buy the suit, I
would like to get a shirt included in the price.

(01:02:15):
Now, the margin in a, in a branded clothing store might be
250% on a branded shirt, right? So that cost of
giving me a shirt that is priced at $150 might be $30,
but my value is obviously $150 because that is the retail
price on that shirt. Now giving me $150 in
discount, buying a suit for a thousand dollars will cost him

(01:02:37):
$150 and gain me $150, but getting a shirt will only
cost him 20, 30, $40, whatever, and give me a benefit of 150.
That's a very quick basic example of the concept of negotiation
economics. So, yes, you can use it everywhere in your private life as
well, even with your kids and your spouse and everywhere.
I like the approach. Linda, what are practical ways

(01:03:01):
to ask outrageously in personal finance situations?
Well, you know, I was thinking back to what you asked me before
about kids. Maybe the only thing that worked with my kids was
negotiating and asking them and having them deal with us. My
husband's a financial planner and you know, some of
the questions that he asks people are,

(01:03:24):
do you really need this? Do you, you know, what kind of,
do you really need to spend this kind of money to get this? What other
kind of discounts? And I'm with Kel, if I'm going to have multiple
of things or if I want to, I want to increase that pie before I
try to, to start discounting on someone. So I'll say, you know, I
come to this restaurant all the time. Would you give us

(01:03:46):
always have that corner booth or could I always have a free appetizer
or whatever that is, or, you know, you're in the fast food line that
isn't fast. How many times have we been there? So You've sat there and sat
there and sat there. As you come around, say, hey, this fast food wasn't very
fast. Can I have an extra French fry? Can I have an extra dessert?
Start practicing on these little things so that when it's a

(01:04:08):
big thing, it's not so scary. Build that
muscle, Josh. So many of us,
we're nervous when we have to talk about salary
negotiation. How can we negotiate with more
confidence for something like our salary?
Yeah, I think it's an interesting one. And there's a phenomenon that a

(01:04:31):
lot of people have told me that when money's involved, it
sort of changes the equation. They don't hesitate to ask nearly as much when
it's other things. But when it comes down to money, they worry
that they're going to be, you know, perceived as greedy.
Especially different groups in our society
who are often just sort of told you should just accept

(01:04:53):
whatever is given to you. And the reality
is that that's not how you have to
learn to negotiate. You have to. You're telling yourself a story
about what's going to happen, and you're also playing that story out in your
mind. So too often when I talk to people, for example, around
salary negotiations, and I say, well, have you tried to do this before? And they

(01:05:15):
will say yes, and it didn't go well. And so I now
have that anxiety from those previous experiences that I'm bringing
to this. Right. Susan can relate to this from her perspective,
and I try to help them to say, look, first of all, if you don't
ask for something in negotiation, you're never going to get it. You already know the
answer when you start.

(01:05:37):
But I think what's really important is do your homework. You know, in the video
you talked about industry standards. Know what it is. You know, there are
sites like glassdoor.com and things like that that will give you
what the appropriate salary is. So too often people just don't do
their homework, and they don't know why they're asking for things. And
so it's very easy for an employer to say, well, why would I give you

(01:05:59):
that? You know, from a precedent point of view, I'm paying people
who, for example, may have more experience than you, less than
that. So you have to know what you're doing. You have to do your homework
and your preparation and know these industry standards that
exist, and they do exist. And I think that gives you
the comfort to say what I'm asking is reasonable based on

(01:06:20):
other people doing this work and this job, because people will often say to me,
well, did I get a good deal here? Is this reasonable? And I'll say, well,
what kind of homework have you really done to determine what your
value is and what your worth is? That comes
from elsewhere. Right. Anybody can say, I want this much,
but it has to be based on some form of reality.

(01:06:42):
Otherwise it will come across in a, you know, sort of a very
negative and almost fanciful kind of way.
And on the salary you want to ask for what you're going to do in
the future, you've already been paid for what's already been in the past. So based
on what I've done in the past, this is what I want to do in
the future. That makes your boss have an easier time at saying yes.

(01:07:02):
So negotiating at home, it's been fascinating
to listen what's the same and
what's different? And again, when I say negotiating
at home, I'm saying discussing and deciding together
how to solve issues where you differ. Whatever
you call it, problem solving, conflict resolution, whatever. So

(01:07:25):
for one thing, Josh mentioned, do your homework. I think almost
everybody has said you've got to go out and look what
standards in the field for whatever it is you're asking for.
How do you do that at home? What's the equivalent? So
you ask a slightly different question at home.
You ask, what about this is important?

(01:07:48):
Or what are your concerns? And you have to be able to put
up, look, my concern is because the issues are not
about money as much, although that can be part of it.
More often it's about division of
labor, who's going to do what. It's about how to treat the children
when the children are misbehaving. It's about,

(01:08:10):
what shall we do this summer on the kids vacation?
It's about anything and everything. You left
your clothes on the floor,
sexual, how much, what kind, all these
issues. So instead of looking for
external standards that you can

(01:08:33):
compare against, it becomes really important
that you can look inside. Well, look, my concern
is. And that you can ask the other. So
what's important to you here?
Yeah, Susan, to that point, just chime in. I have three daughters.
And, you know, often I would say, you know, I would explain my underlying

(01:08:57):
interest. I didn't, you know, I would never say to them, I said so because.
Because I didn't like that when my parents said it to me. Or
so I would say, look, the reason you can't go do this is because I'm
concerned about your safety, right? And all of a sudden they're like, okay, now how
do I argue with My father, who's concerned about my safety and who cares about
me and loves me. It's a very different conversation. And it's very, very hard to

(01:09:18):
argue that. And it, in fact, pulls us away from arguing
about it. Right. Because it's me caring about them and getting
down to that underlying level of concern, interest,
et cetera. So I, you know, for me, I
don't look so much to industry standards at home with my wife and children
and whatever. I talk much more about why it is that I'm

(01:09:40):
worried about something or concerned. Exactly. And when you talk,
when you're able to put your concerns on the table, well, I'm worried about your
safety. Then the solution
may be, okay, you can go to that party,
provided your older brother goes with you. You can find a
win win solution. Or maybe they'll say, you know, that you were

(01:10:03):
right. It doesn't sound like a very safe place. There'll be a lot of
drugs there, and the two of you can create an
altogether different option. Hey, how about if you invite all
your friends over? Like, you can have 40 people
over on Saturday night and we'll have a party here.
Bring the party home. Exactly. I

(01:10:27):
like it. The point is, if the. If you
access, both verbalize and listen to and invite the
other person to verbalize their underlying
concerns, creating solutions that are genuinely win
win responsive to all the concerns, it
becomes very easy once you've got the formula.

(01:10:49):
Great. Here's a first on inspired money. Maybe we should do this all
the time. Linda has requested that we take a picture of the panel.
We're going to take a quick photo before we
wrap. I don't know if you guys want to smile, do a funny
thing. I don't know. Look serious,
look happy. All right. Hopefully

(01:11:11):
Bradley got a photo. I think I got a photo.
Before we wrap, there's one quick question.
Yeah. From our audience, Kevin was asking.
He has a contract with Company A, which in the past five years has gone
really well. However, due to some reason, they're not that
collaborative anymore. For the extension of a contract, what would

(01:11:34):
be the best steps for it to continue?
I'll go for that one. I'd ask what their concerns
are. What's holding them back from the kind of
goodwill discussion we've had in the past? What's on your
minds? Yeah, I was going to say the exact same
thing. I think it's getting down to

(01:11:56):
the underlying interest. There's a reason why things have changed. And
I think if you do have that kind of a relationship, you've worked with them
for five years, you can say, listen, you know, we. We have collaborated really
well, like, what's going on? And I think this is back to
Kel's point about relationships, right? You have the ability to ask that question
because you have worked well for five years. And they're more likely to tell

(01:12:17):
you, hey, you know, here's what's changed on our end
and that we've got going.
You usually have a champion. If you've been working there
five years, you know, backtrack five years
before. That would be to make sure you have multiple contacts there.
But if they're all of a sudden ghosting, there's something going on. See if you

(01:12:39):
can get your champion on the phone and if you can do it
off the record kind of and just say, hey, what is going on?
Or what's up? Sometimes it's just been a mistake.
Sometimes the bosses have changed. There's always something going on at back
at the farm and they'll tell you.

(01:12:59):
Thank you, Kel. Any last comment? No, I think
it's been great. I learned a lot today. It's wonderful being with amazing
colleagues here. Thank you so much, everybody. Well, thank you to our
panelists. Thank you to the inspired money maker for watching. It has
been an incredibly informative discussion, and I hope that you found
this discussion on negotiation as enlightening as I

(01:13:22):
have my biggest takeaway preparation.
It's really the foundation of effective negotiation. Whether it's
understanding the other side's interests or managing your own
mindset, the work that you do beforehand before you enter
the room really makes a difference. But then it's
the active listening and asking the right questions

(01:13:44):
and really to dive in and to do it. I think
that you have to get comfortable, getting
uncomfortable, ask lots of questions and continue to build that
muscle that's really a game changer that can turn a tough
conversation into a win win situation.
Here's my challenge for you this week. Think about an

(01:14:05):
upcoming negotiation you might have, whether it's at work or
home, or even haggling for a better deal. Take just
10 minutes to prepare by outlining your objectives,
anticipating the other party's needs, considering how you'll communicate
effectively, you might be surprised by how much more confident
and in control you feel. If you like this episode, please

(01:14:27):
share it with someone that you think could benefit by sharpening their negotiation
skills. And don't forget to subscribe so you never miss a future
episode of Insight. Inspired Money. Oh, there's one more question
that I kind of saw there. Let me see if
I can put that back. Let's say,
wait, is this, this is what we covered already. Previous one.

(01:14:50):
Yeah, I think we're good. So a big thank you
to our small but mighty team. Excellent segment
edits from Bradley, Eagle Feather and graphic animations by Chad
Lawrence. Thank you to our amazing panelists. Be sure to
follow them and find out more.
Same thing. Yeah, same thing. So Dr. Keld Jensen, you can find

(01:15:13):
him at keldjensen.com. Keld any
other place you want to point people to. Yeah, well, I
always love when people want to buy one of my books and they are everywhere
where you buy books, obviously. So yeah, buy his
books. Dr. Joshua Weiss, you can find him at
Joshua nweiss.com Do I have that right?

(01:15:34):
You got it. Yep. And buy his newest book, Getting
Back to the Table, Linda Swindling, you can find her at
Linda swindling.com that's
lindaswindling.com and Dr. Susan Heitler, you
can find her many articles at psychologytoday.com or her
website, therapyhelp.com and Susan, you're holding up

(01:15:56):
books, so I'll let you point.
The whole goal of these books is to give people
the tools for being able to negotiate their personal
life in a way that's win win and builds love and
a happy family. I love it. Well, thank you for
empowering me to be better prepared at the

(01:16:20):
dinner table tonight. I'm going to have a good discussion with my three kids and
my wife. I think that they will still win, but
I will be happy that we meet a happy outcome.
The next inspired Money episode will be understanding
behavioral Finance, how emotional and or how
emotions and cognitive biases impact investment decisions.

(01:16:42):
That will be March 5th at 1pm until next time,
do something that scares you because that's where the magic happens. Thank you everyone.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Art of Negotiation: Strategies for Success in Personal and Financial Matters