The Art of Wine Pairing: Elevating Retirement Gastronomy with Fine Wines

Episode Transcript
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(00:50):
Aloha inspired Money Maker. Thanks for joining us today.
If this is your first time here, welcome. If you're returning
viewer or listener, welcome back. Thank you for tuning in.
We're taking a little break today from all the stock market talk,
tariff updates and financial noise. Over the course of the
last four days, the Dow has lost more than 4,500

(01:12):
points. The S&P 500 has sustained a 12%
loss. It has been a wild ride and sometimes
stepping back to focus on living well is just what we
need. This episode has been in the works long before we
launched this 100 episode live stream series. So yeah,
we had no idea what the economy would be doing right

(01:34):
now. But maybe that's the point. No matter what's going
on out there, sharing a great meal, enjoying a
glass of wine with friends, and taking a moment to slow
down, that's what makes life rich.
Personally, I don't drink wine. I'm going to be
the only person on screen who doesn't drink wine. Which is why

(01:55):
I'm I'm extra excited today because I get to
ask all the questions. You might be wondering too. There are no
dumb questions here. So if you're curious about what wine
goes with your favorite dish or how to really enjoy a
bottle, drop your questions in the comments. We've got an amazing
lineup of guests, some of the best minds in wine and

(02:17):
hospitality here to teach us about wine and how I can
elevate not just what we eat but but how we live. So
stick around. It's going to be fun, inspiring and
hopefully even delicious. Before we start,
a quick thank you to our sponsor. Today's episode is brought to you
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(02:39):
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(03:01):
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(03:22):
show, and I appreciate it greatly. Let's meet
our guest panelists. I'm going to start with Madeline
Puckette. She's a certified sommelier, award winning
author, co founder of Wine Folly, a leading platform for
wine education known for its Visually engaging and approachable
style. She's co author of Wine Folly, the

(03:44):
Essential Guide to Wine, a James Beard award winning
book that's helped demystify wine for enthusiasts and
professionals alike by blending design, data, visualization
and expert knowledge. Madeline, so glad you're
here. Hi, thanks for having me. We have
Dustin Wilson, a master sommelier, entrepreneur and

(04:06):
co founder of Verve Wine, a modern retail and
hospitality brand with locations in New York, San Francisco and
Chicago. Known for his role in the SAHM film
series, he has also launched Apres
Cru, a film supporting a firm supporting
the growth of visionary restaurant concepts. Dustin,

(04:27):
welcome. Thank you. Great to be here. We
have Yannick Benjamin. He's a New York based sommelier, entrepreneur
and advocate, best known as the co founder
of Contento restaurant, which was
in Harlem, I think East
Harlem, and Beaupierre wine and spirits.

(04:49):
Both built on principles of accessibility, inclusivity and community.
A wheelchair user since 2003, Benjamin has
become a celebrated figure in the wine world, earning accolades such
as Sommelier of the Year, of the Year by the Michelin Guide
and a co founder and co founding Wine on
Wheels, a non profit uniting wine professionals

(05:12):
for charitable causes. Yannick,
welcome. Thank you for having me. Yeah, we're very.
We were talking before we started admiring your beard,
so kudos to you.
Rounding out our panel today, we have Sarah Thomas. She's co founder and chief

(05:34):
brand officer of Kalamata's Kitchen, a storytelling
brand that celebrates cultural curiosity through food,
encouraging children to explore diverse cuisines with
both empathy and excitement. A former advanced
sommelier at the 33 Michelin starred Le
Bernardin Thomas, she blends her fine

(05:56):
dining background in South Indian heritage into
joyful narratives that inspire the next generation of eaters
and adventurers. Sarah, so glad that you're here.
Thank you so much for having me. And hoping that
your toddler has a great nap. Yeah, fingers
crossed. You never know. It's all good

(06:18):
here. We've had shows where the
toddler, of course, did not nap and actually appeared on
the show, so no problem. He's kind of a podcast star at this point,
but I'm hoping that he stays down for this one. All right,
well, I'm delighted. Will put us all to shame, so. I think he should
be off camera. Yeah, well, now I have to see the

(06:41):
hair. I'm so excited to have
all of you here. We're going to have a great discussion about wine
pairing. Let's get right to it and go straight to segment one.
Wine appreciation starts with understanding grape varietals and
their influence on flavor. The major red grapes include
Cabernet Sauvignon, known for its bold tannins, and

(07:03):
Pinot Noir, prized for its delicate fruitiness. White
wines range from the crisp acidity of Sauvignon Blanc to the
rich texture of Chardonnay. Climate plays a key role.
Cooler regions like Burgundy yield wines with high
acidity, while warmer regions like Napa Valley produce
riper, fruitier profiles. Winemaking techniques

(07:25):
shape taste. Oak aging adds vanilla and spice, while
malolactic fermentation softens acidity. Tannins,
naturally present in red wine, contribute structure and aging
potential. Mastering the five S's of tasting
See, swirl, smell, sip and savor. Enhances
appreciation by engaging the senses. Avoid common

(07:46):
mistakes. Improper storage, incorrect serving temperature and
oxidation can all diminish wine quality. Understanding
these fundamentals lays the groundwork for informed selection and
pairing.
Sarah from your experience at Les Bernardin, what

(08:09):
foundational wine lessons do you believe resonates most with
newcomers? You know, I do think that, you know,
all of us are hospitality professionals and all of us
are, you know, we're, we're, we're people who aim to please in a lot of
ways and also aim to educate. And, and I think that foundationally for me, from
a hospitality perspective, I wanted the guests to leave happy. I wanted them

(08:31):
to leave happier than they were when they entered. And I think
when it came to specifics, we laburnan served primarily
seafood, a lot of raw seafood, very delicately cooked seafood.
Logically, a lot of people would assume that most of the pairings
should be with white wines, with champagnes, with things like that.
And so, but if you were a red wine drinker, my goal was always to

(08:54):
find something that could fit. And so I think from a pairing perspective and
understanding wines, I think understanding your own likes and
dislikes are very, very important. Understanding
your own palate is very important because then you can ask the right questions
of the hospitality professional that's trying to help you guide, using their
experience and your tastes to guide you to the experience that you're going to enjoy

(09:15):
the most. My, my father, for example, is pretty much
exclusively a red wine drinker. So if I told him that the best pairing for
something was a really crisp, mineral driven
Chablis, he might agree with me, but he might not enjoy it the best. So
understanding his likes and dislikes and understanding what I can do on the other side
of that to help him find the best pairing, that for

(09:37):
him I think is, is a really important lesson for people. Understand your
own palate and what you. Like and don't like, yeah, that's a great start. I
mean, even if that's just like somebody like me, I like
something light and sweet. We can work with that.
Very basic. Yeah, that's really, that's really helpful, though,
for us from a sommelier's perspective. And I know the rest of you can definitely

(09:58):
speak to that as well. But there's. There are a lot of people who don't
trust. No. Either don't have the vocabulary or trust the vocabulary that they
do have to be able to share that. But light and sweet, all of us
can work with that. So, Dustin, what are your thoughts? I mean, you've worked
both in top restaurants and in wine retail. How do you
guide somebody to start discovering their own palate

(10:21):
and be able to communicate clearly? Yeah,
so I have to. I agree with everything that Sarah said. You know, a lot
of this is so dependent on people's preferences. But, you know,
I. My background, I come from a place where
there's a lot of kind of regimented rules around how you. How
you do this stuff. And I think there is value

(10:44):
to at least like, learning those. Those rules, you know, kind of the
saying of, you have to know the rules before you can break them, so to
speak. So I think for me, there's, there's value in at least
understanding the concepts of, you know, how food and
wine pairing works and the basic foundations of what
those things should be, because then it allows you to then kind

(11:05):
of play within those. Those environments.
So kind of understanding that, you know, intensity, I think is a big
one for me. Which, you know, really intensely flavored dish needs to have a
wine that's also very intensely flavored so that they can kind of match
up against each other. You wouldn't, for instance, take
a, you know, a peppercorn crusted rib

(11:27):
eye steak or something like that and pair it up next to a German
Riesling. You have one really low intensity wine with
a really high intensity dish. It's not going to work. But so, you know,
thinking of things like that, understanding how alcohol plays with.
With food, how tannins and acidity kind of play with
food, to me, there's, there's kind of a

(11:49):
foundation that needs to be built on understanding those concepts. And then once
you understand them, you can kind of play within them and experiment
with wines that are maybe a little bit more in tune with your
personal preferences. Yana, can you share?
I mean, you come from a French family. Tell
us how enjoying wine can actually elevate

(12:12):
the food on the table. Well, I mean, there's no
doubt that I think wine, compared to a lot of other beverages,
has this incredible way to kind of transport you into
a moment to a place, especially based on
the nose and the aromas, and that's what makes it so
unique. Going back to how to kind of describe

(12:34):
wine to somebody who's just getting into it or trying to get them
to really enjoy the world of wine, I think you have to kind of
take everyone case by case. And I always like to try to understand
someone's background, because if someone grew up, you know, in Southeast
Asia, their perception of what sugar
and what's high acid and what's dry will be very

(12:56):
different compared to somebody who grew up in, let's say, a
Nordic country. Right. Based on the ingredients and how
they grew up with culturally. So I think that's really important. So I always kind
of like, we'll start off, you know, asking people, what do you drink in the
morning? What kind of coffee do you just have? Black ristretto,
espresso with no sugar? Or do you have, like, a cappuccino? And then

(13:18):
you dump a bunch of sugar in it? So that kind of gives me a
gauge on how to, you know, what kind of wines or
what kind of countries or grapes are really kind of present to them.
And that's where how I go about that as well. So I think there's a
combination of what Dustin is saying. Definitely these rules are really important
as a reference and a benchmark, and they're incredibly

(13:39):
important. And then it's really up to you to kind of make it your own
as well. I like that. I like that you're trying to put the
pieces that put the puzzle pieces together
by talking to somebody. And I assume
that that's also how you help make wine and
education more accessible to diverse audiences, too.

(14:00):
Exactly. So, Madeline, in your
journey with wine folly, what's one common
misconception about wine varietals that you've encountered, and
how do you address it? Well,
varieties, I think that we have this, like,
core list of the noble grapes and that everything el is just

(14:22):
garbage. But that's not true. There's so many amazing grapes
out there that have staying power. They can age incredibly well. We just
don't know about them. You know, there's more than
1300 grape varieties that are commercially viable
currently in the world that. That grow in various
amounts in various places. And some of them are quite rare, that are quite a

(14:43):
fine. So I would say misconceptions are that there's
just a few out There. And I think that's what makes wine so
complicated, is because you're like, well, once I know one I like, I
can stick to it and it's good. But there might be many that you like
a lot. But, you know, getting back to the palate thing, I
used to work with a friend of mine. His

(15:05):
sister was. Had just been pregnant, had a baby, and I
was pretty sure she had a super palate. And we have this idea that
you're supposed to have a good palate in order to love wine. And that's not
exactly true because I remember going over to her house and I had a whole
swath of different types of wine. And I was like, she's like, I hate
wine. And I'm like, I am going to find the one that you like.

(15:27):
And she's one of those people who basically likes a little bit of
coffee in her cream. And she like, is very picky
about her food. She hates Brussels sprouts, she hates broccoli. She doesn't
like kale or anything like that. She's on this like mostly cream
based diet, in my opinion, like cream and chicken and very little salt.
She has an incredibly sensitive palate. So I remember tasting

(15:50):
her on a bunch of different wines and they all tasted sour and like they
had gone. They were grapes that had gone bad. And I found this
one with very low alcohol. And it was sweet. It was
Moscato dusty. You guys know what I'm talking about. And she was like,
this one is the least sucky of all the wines.
So I think this, like, idea of knowing your palette is

(16:13):
very individual. And I'm glad that she was like, semi
okay with the Moscato dusty. But like, you're gonna start somewhere. And wherever you
start is a okay with the pros.
It's the people in between the pros. And Dustin will, you know,
whatever, pick on Dustin because he's a master sommelier.
It's the people in between that are gonna make you have a bad time because

(16:35):
they're like, moscato Dusty isn't a good wine to like
you. You like a garbage wine. And that's not true. That's just like foundationally not
true. So, and, and, and comment.
I'm relieved. I think I thought you were gonna say that you had to put
half and half in her wine. Oh, God, that's an amazing
idea. I should have tried that. No, I didn't.

(16:57):
But I did used to think that wine smelled like baby diaper.
And, you know, a really funky Chardonnay from Burgundy
often has this, like, aroma, and she had some
fresh baby diapers. And I have since proven that that is not true.
Absolutely not true. There is no wine that smells like
baby diaper. It's not true. A true ab test. They required a

(17:20):
true AB test. So when. Maybe I'll just
go around the panel quickly. When guiding someone new to
wine, what's the first aspect you focus on
to help build a foundational under
understanding? Start with Madeline. Since you
were talking. Oh, gosh. Foundational understanding. I want you to try at

(17:42):
least four different wines to understand the
range that is out there. A white
sparkling, a light red, and a bold red. Basically,
that's kind of like there's. There's a little bit more outside of that range,
but you should kind of know what Tanner feels like on your palate and how
to taste that. And you sort of develop this, like, oh,

(18:02):
I see what you guys are talking about. And if you go to any wine
store and have this decent. Anyone. Anyone who's
a wine steward is gonna. Is gonna set you into the right bottle. Maybe a
sweet wine. One of them could be sweet. That's okay. Just so you can taste
the range that's out there, and. And the goal is
to know what the. Like, know

(18:24):
what the whole thing is all about and also tune your palate on what. What's
what. What's acidity taste like? What does tannin taste like? What is sweetness in a
wine? What is body? We talk about intensity, like
matching intense wine with an intense flavored food. You
need to know what the range is that's out there that you're working with. And
that's one of the things that a lot of great wine

(18:46):
educators will do, is they'll set you up with about nine
or 10 wines, and you'll taste the rainbow, and you'll develop,
like, so much understanding in that moment.
Reference points. Sarah, your thought? Yeah, I was going to say
comparative tasting is really, really helpful. I
often. My parents are retired in a community of their friends

(19:08):
in Orlando, and sometimes I set up wine tastings for them, and there
was a whole crew of them that was like, oh, I hate. I
hate Chardonnay. And. But, you know,
as Madeleine was saying, like, one expression of one grape, it varies, as we
know, across the world in so many different styles in so many different ways. And
so I asked if they'd be open to testing that theory. And we did

(19:30):
comparative tastings of chardonnays from all over the world. And,
you know, that I think, you know, drawing on some of the stuff that Yannick
and both and Madeline said as well, asking them to compare it to some of
the stuff that they like and don't like in other foods and drinks, asking them
to notice per wine not knowing where they were from, what it was
about each one that reminded them of something else that they've had or

(19:53):
what they liked, what they didn't like, how it made them feel afterwards. Like there
were just there are a bunch of different questions. And I think that comparative tasting
of either the same variety, like you could do it in a bunch of different
ways. You can do the same varietal, you could do six different styles and see
like what of different varietals even and see what it is that's
speaking to you and then being able to remember that and

(20:14):
relay it to a wine professional, whether they're in a store, whether they're in the
restaurant, whatever is again, it's like I was saying earlier about knowing your own likes
and dislikes. It's just giving you that framework of it's giving you your own
framework to be able to let one of us translate for you
what we like, use that to guide you to something you're really going to enjoy.
Because again, our job is to get you something you're really going to enjoy, but

(20:36):
hopefully also guide you to something that's we consider a great option
for whatever you're doing, whether it's in the store or at a restaurant,
and also educate you a little bit. Hopefully a win
win. Janek yeah, I mean, I
think especially here in the New York City market, we have an abundance
of really great wine bars. Going to a restaurant

(20:58):
or an establishment that has a big selection of wines by the glass.
And there's nothing wrong with going up there and saying, hey,
I'm just getting into wine. I'm learning about this. I really want to
explore. I'm not familiar with this weird grape called Xeno Mavro.
I see you have it. Can I get a little taste of it? And more
than likely you will get a sample of that. I think that's really a great

(21:18):
way to kind of just explore and see what's out there.
Or even just going up to the, the bartender, the sommelier, the waiter, and
saying, hey, instead of getting, you know, buying one glass, can you do a split
or something? And that's, that's really a great way to explore because, you know,
going to a wine store and committing to buying four bottles of wine, it could
be quite a lot, right? It's, it's not cheap, but we all know that we

(21:40):
all understand that, but I think taking that step and that
active approach is really great. And. And there's nothing wrong with
showing a bit of vulnerability and just saying, hey, I'm not an expert.
You know, show me the way. Show me the path.
I love it. And Dustin.

(22:00):
Oh, you're muted, Dustin.
Sorry, I'm unmuted. Yeah, just kind of building on
this. I think it really is about starting to understand
your own preferences and your own palette and being able to
start to develop a vocabulary on how to communicate
your preferences. And really, the best way to do that is to just taste lots

(22:23):
and lots of different things. You know, whether it's going to wine bars
or, you know, look at local wine tastings that are happening in your
areas. You know, going to a retail
shop that's putting on a tasting, things of that nature where you can just try
stuff, um, and you
want to do that as much of that as possible. And I think, you know,

(22:44):
wine is one of these weird things that everybody seems to be, especially when they're
first getting into it, really afraid to, like, look like you don't know
what you're doing, or, like, you don't have the vocabulary, and it makes you feel
dumb. And I think, you know, just
kind of having the confidence to just be okay with that and
just push through it, because we all started somewhere. My first wine book

(23:06):
was literally Wine for Dummies. So,
you know, I think it's about having that ability
to kind of push through that fear a little bit, as Yannick was mentioning, and
just get out there and try a lot of things. And then when you try
things and you find that you like something, just write it down, take a picture
of it. You don't need to say what it was necessarily that you like

(23:26):
specifically about it. You don't need to say, oh, I like these flavors of,
you know, blueberry or raspberry or whatever it is. Say,
I liked this wine. Write down what it was. Was it a Malbec? Was it
a Cabernet? Was it a Pinot Noir? Was it, you know, take a picture of
the bottle, because then you come to one of us and you show it to
us. Like, last time I went out and tasted a bunch of things, I'd like

(23:47):
this thing. We're like, great. Because then we can take that and say,
okay, just from seeing that wine or what it
was, we can start to develop a kind of a broad
stroke of different things that we could recommend to you that are going to be
pretty similar in style that you're most likely going to enjoy. And then
from there, once you find like that one thing that you do really like,

(24:09):
dive deep into it, you know, figure out, okay, where does this
wine come from? Read about it a little bit. What is this
grape all about? Where else is it grown? Should I go try this same grape
from other places around the world? And that's where that sense of
discovery really starts to happen. So I think it really is about kind of learning
yourself and getting past that fear as the first step. I love

(24:30):
it. A great starting point. Let's go to segment two.
Pairing wine with food relies on balancing flavors, textures, and
weight. Complementary pairings match similar profiles, like a
buttery Chardonnay with creamy seafood. Contrasting
pairings create balance, such as a sweet Riesling with spicy
dishes. Tannins in red wines soften with protein rich

(24:53):
foods like steak, while acidity in white wines cuts through
oily dishes. Classic pairings include Cabernet
Sauvignon with steak, Pinot Noir with salmon, and
Champagne with fried foods. Regional pairings highlight tradition
such as Chianti with pasta or Rioja with tapas.
Unexpected combinations like potato chips with champagne

(25:15):
work by balancing salt, flavor, fat, and acidity. Mistakes
like pairing high tannin wines with spicy food can intensify
heat, while serving wine at the wrong temperature can mask
flavors. Understanding weight, acidity, and tannins helps
refine choices, ensuring an enhanced dining experience with
every meal.

(25:40):
Dustin, you talked a little bit about intensity and trying to
match the wine to the right dish in
your restaurant ventures. Are there like
pairings that became signature favorites among patrons, or does it
not work that way? There's
definitely in my time in restaurants, times where I

(26:01):
personally got really excited about certain things that we, we found
in our experimentation process. You know, there's a lot
of things that will definitely go well together, generally speaking, but it's very
few and far between that. Especially I think, you know, as you do this professionally,
find those things that are like, wow, this particular pairing is like
out of this world. So. But I think it,

(26:24):
the food wine pairing thing is a lot easier than I think people maybe give
it credit for. If you, if you do start to understand what some of those
kind of basic foundational, you know, rules, if you will,
are, and then you can kind of play around with those rules. For instance, you
know, a dish when I was at 11 Madison park years ago, this is
kind of before the, the remake into

(26:46):
the plant based menu. We had this amazing
duck on the, on the menu and it was a, like a honey lacquered
duck. It had like Chinese five spice on it. And depending on the time
of year, it would be with a different set
and meaning, like the accompaniments that would come with it. So, you
know, for instance, one, at one point in time, we had

(27:08):
cherries, or it might be apples or might be some other kind of fruit.
And, you know, the. The kind of. The instinct there is to go with something
kind of big, bold, spicy, because it's this,
like, duck is fairly full flavored and it's got these spices on it and everything.
But then the, you know, the fruit really added another element to it
of a slight sweetness. So, you know, the thing that we

(27:31):
ended up finding was a Grenache based
wine from Chateauneuf du Pape that worked really well
because it had this, like, very vibrant, fruity,
rich texture to it at
a fruit forward profile that kind of played off the sweetness of that fruit.
So but, like, one of the rules, if you will, is, you know, you kind

(27:52):
of want to match sweetness with sweetness. But in
this case, the kind of robust fruit, fruity nature of the wine
was enough to kind of like balance out the sweetness in the
actual dish. So it's like a rule that's been slightly broken, if you will.
But being able to play in that is really fun to be able to do,
because I think a Pinot noir could have also worked really well if it came

(28:14):
from the new world, for instance, a bunch of different things that could
work that you can play around with if you know sort of what the
basic things are that you need to find with that dish.
I see Madeline nodding enthusiastically. I
was like. I was, like getting hungry as you were describing that
dish. I was like, yeah. And then I was thinking maybe

(28:36):
a bougie. Sir Dawn. This is like sparkling, kind of off,
dry, like, rose looking thing from a weird region of
France would go good. I was getting excited, so thank you for that. But
I'll add another weird one to the list, if you will. I. So I used
to work. My first job ever was I lost my job in the
2008 market crash, and I went into a wine bar to drink my sorrows

(28:57):
away. And the guy hired me a few days later after I had proven
I had read, like, two horribly boring books on wine. And it
was great. It was an amazing job. It helped me establish myself in the wine
industry and do what I do now. But he
was enthusiastic about wine pairings. He told me about two pairings
that to this day, wow, they are like, must have pairings.

(29:19):
You gotta try to understand what
Dustin's kind of talking about that elevated thing where the food and the wine
together create new magic. And the new magic was
like port wine and Stilton. That's a classic, famous
classic, perfect pairing with a ruby port wine or like a
lbv late bottled vintage port wine. You can sort of

(29:41):
make this magical pairing with, which doesn't make any sense. It's like a
blue cheese with a sweet red wine with high alcohol, it doesn't make any sense.
But then when you put them together, you're like, oh my God, it makes a
new flavor. And the other one I'll throw into the pile here, if you're writing,
taking notes, is cava. This is a
high acid, very lean sparkling wine from Spain.

(30:02):
That's badass. It's made just like champagne. It's delicious and it's very
affordable. And then you get your red bean chili with a cheddar
cheese on top. What? That doesn't even make sense. But it's one of
those contrasting pairings where like the ooey gooey nature of this like
rich umami driven dish paired with like high
acid, brutal kava is like, woo. It

(30:24):
makes a new flavor on your palate. It's amazing. I love it.
I love it. I'm getting even more hungry. I'm hungry.
Janek, you have a love for ancient wines.
Georgia, Armenia, Turkey. How do you guide people through that
adventure?
Yeah, it's, it's a bit complicated in many ways. Even though

(30:47):
this is really the cradle of wine civilization, right. Even we go
back even further to places like Iran
and Iraq, you know, Mesopotamia, the
Phoenicians. You know, as we know, a lot of these
grapes that we might associate as being European, probably their
DNA goes back to this part of the world in the Caucus Mountains.

(31:09):
But I think that people now are just have such
a broad perspective of wine and are just excited
on what they can learn. And I think when we
talk about wine and going back to that whole concept of liquid geography,
right. I know that oftentimes people will get
taste a glass of wine or buy a bottle of wine from somewhere

(31:31):
interesting, but then it allows them to go kind of into the
rabbit hole of not only just, you know, tasting and drinking and learning about
that specific wine, but also learning
about that specific country at the wine store. We have a couple of producers from
Turkey. It's a country that I really adore. I love that part of the world.
And you know, in Turkey there's over, I believe, over 3,000 different

(31:53):
grapes that they've identified. Okay. And it was once a
very prominent wine growing country, they still
are the fifth largest producer in grapes. Okay. Right now
because of the way things are based on their government, but there's
still about 125 different wineries. A lot of them are using these very
unique kind of indigenous grapes out there. They're just simply

(32:15):
fascinating now. They're just kind of getting the ball rolling back again. But it is
a very interesting time. So I think that wine in that part, in
that aspect, really opens up that opportunity
to learn about that specific region, that specific country. And, you
know, if it wasn't for wine, I probably wouldn't know much about
Georgia, know a lot about Armenia,

(32:38):
even the socioeconomic issues that Syria, Iraq and Iran
are having. And just their past and how prevalent and
how important their past is to where we're at today in our present. So that's
what I'm really all my gratitude goes to when it comes to wine
because of that reason. Very cool to be
learning about new things through a lens of wine.

(33:00):
Sarah, your parents are retired in Orlando. How have you
helped them and their friends with their wine experiences?
Well, like I was saying before, we do, I do little tasting classes for
them sometimes when I go down for a period of time. And it's really fun.
And I think to kind of take that plus what Yannick
was just saying, I, I think all of this is about being sort

(33:22):
of open minded to, to learning something new. And I would
observe this in the restaurant all the time that, like, people would be like, yep,
I'm down for the pairings. I'd like to do the chef's tasting menu with the
wine pairings. I want to try everything that's really cool. And
you know, we, we worked really hard on those. And so
that's, you know, people generally really enjoyed it. But oftentimes

(33:44):
when you get to the dessert wines or the pre. Dessert wines. The dessert wines.
And Madeline, it's funny that you mentioned Bouget c'est because it's immediately what I was
thinking. It's my favorite pairing story from Le Bernhein is
immediately when I put them this glass of like lightly sweet,
lightly sparkling pink wine, inevitably,
generally an older gentleman would be like, oh, no, that I

(34:05):
don't want. And I'd be like, sir, I'm absolutely fine to bring you
something else if you don't like it or, you know, but just do me one
favor and just try it with a dessert. And almost without fail,
like 99.9% of the time when that happened, that was the one pairing
that they asked for more of afterwards. And it was just, it was
because like it. Something in their minds had stopped them from thinking that

(34:27):
they would like something even, like even with a hint of the word sweet
in it or heaven forbid it's pink, but in fact
it ended up being one of their favorite things. And so I do a lot
of that with my dad. My mom's pretty open to trying stuff, but my dad's
like, yeah, yeah. My daughter's a sommelier and then only wants to drink like
heavy red wines with stuff. So I have to keep reminding him

(34:48):
to be open minded. And honestly, building a
little community for them there of friends, some of whom are more
open minded than others actually really helps all of them
try new things together. Because in order to keep like, in
order to have these experiences, to keep the expenses down and to try
lots of new things, they all we taste in a group and when you're

(35:11):
with your friends and everybody's trying the same thing, like lots of people are
tasting stuff that they wouldn't normally order for themselves. So I really
highly encourage people to form their own little, you know, friend tasting
groups and maybe have a theme, maybe just bring something that you
are you really loved lately and tell everybody what you you like. But
I've noticed that that community and communal aspect of

(35:32):
tasting with their friends has really elevated, gotten all
of them more excited to share what they really like
and to try new things that either I recommend or one of their friends
has. I love it.
Let's go to segment three. Proper
glassware enhances aroma and taste. Red wines

(35:55):
benefit from larger bowls to encourage aeration, while white
wines are best in smaller glasses to maintain temperature and delicate
aromas. Sparkling wines red retain their bubbles and flutes
in fortified wines require smaller glasses to concentrate
aromas. Serving temperature affects perception.
Sparkling wines should be served cold, while full bodied reds benefit

(36:17):
from slightly warmer temperatures. Decanting helps separate sediment
in aged wines and aerates young tannic reds.
Swirling also introduces oxygen, enhancing aroma
and softening tannins. Closures impact aging.
Quark allows slow oxygen exchange but risks
contamination. Screw caps maintain freshness while

(36:38):
boxed wines offer convenience with limited aging potential.
Proper storage at a stable 55 degrees Fahrenheit
with moderate humidity prevents spoilage. Avoid
direct light and vibrations. Following these guidelines
improves both the enjoyment and longevity of wine.

(37:04):
We've talked about for a newcomer, how wine can be
intimidating for people and the need to be
confident enough to say I don't know anything and be
vulnerable. Yannick, can you share
insights on the importance of glassware in the wine
experience? Yes, of course. One of my

(37:26):
favorite glass companies that I love to use is Gabrielle Glass, which
is basically an all standard glass that you can use for
white, rose red and
sparkling. And to be quite honest with you, I don't know
when it was the last time that I actually served glutes
for champagne. I just find them very restricting. Of course, if someone

(37:47):
requests them and I always give them the opportunity. But for me
personally, I always find just a standard, what we call
all purpose glass, which would be like a standard white wine
glass for serving champagne or any kind of sparkling wine.
Again, the, the, the flutes are not my, not a big fan of them. They,
they, they follow, you know, they're not very stable and usually accidents

(38:11):
happen with them. And then, you know, for someone like myself who has a big
nose, I can never get my nose into that little skinny glass. So I kind
of stay away from it. And so that's, that's one thing that I'm kind of
rigid about as far as temperature. I'm, yeah, I'm
really kind of picky about that, unfortunately. I'm, I think I'm pretty easy. But
when it does come to temperature, I'm pretty picky, especially with red wines. I

(38:32):
like my wines, red wines really at cellar temperature,
just at about kind of like that 53, 55 degrees.
I know some people like their red wines a little warmer. I don't
ex, I don't really enjoy that. I think it brings out these kind of volatile
aromas that I really don't care for. And so that
cellar temperature for me is really the sweet spot. And even for more of these

(38:54):
full bodied whites, you know, I don't want my white wines to be too cold
because it's somewhat mutes the flavors and takes away from the enjoyment.
So that's my take on temperature and glassware.
Sarah, do you agree on the temperature discussion? Yeah, I'm.
Oh, sorry. Am I muted? No, I'm not. Okay. I'm definitely like, I think
I drink my red wines a little cooler than, than some and my white wine's

(39:16):
a little warmer than some. I think that's a personal preference thing. But I agree
on the reasoning that, that Yannick gave there that I don't, I mean, I can't
taste if it's like fridge cold for a white wine. I just, I feel like
I'm not tasting everything that I want to taste in it. And
yeah, I really, I don't. The, the volatility that comes from a, you
know, warm to hot even sometimes red

(39:37):
wines, when they're stored like Outside, near a thing, at a restaurant. Sometimes I'm like,
I think I'll get something from the seller. And
for glassware, I love the Gabriel glass. I.
We use Zeltos a lot at Laverne and I have them at home,
but they're so. They're like, like a part of my
soul dies whenever one breaks. And I

(39:59):
just. That's. That's hard for me. And so, and especially
now that I always have kids running around my house, I've switched to
a universal glass. Actually, the new maiden Universal glasses are
really, they're really. They're really great, like all purpose glasses. I use the
same. I use their red wine glass as a universal glass. I use it for
champagne, I use it for white wine, and I use it for red wine. And

(40:21):
I think that's actually a. It's like a really
solid home use glass
that like, elevates your experience. It's a beautiful glass.
It does, it does a lot for the wine itself, like the wine experience.
And also your soul won't die when you break
one.

(40:44):
Madeline, you want to weigh in? You know, I was. We
were huge advocates of Gabrielle glass early on, and we had them in our
store for years and years and years because it's this highly
durable, easy to use, like, wonderful glass. And
then this is weird because this is like a 10 year period. I was, I
was advocating for a Gabrielle glass and for after

(41:06):
trying them in, in Canada and just being like, holy crap, these things are amazing.
I was up in Kelowna at Mission Hill Winery and this
woman dropped one. Like, okay, they had their little
pads, you know, that you stand on, but she dropped one and it bounced.
And I was like, holy f. This is amazing.
This is a solid glass. So, so absolutely, absolutely love the

(41:28):
universal glasses. But then I started noticing over the years that I stopped
liking red wines and bolder red wines. And I'm like, man,
my palate is really changing. It must be because I run a plant based diet
now. Must be because I'm a vegan and I'm not liking
red. Bold red wines. Not true. I current. We
are now offering RLE glassware. We use

(41:49):
their. What line is it? It's awesome. It's
their. What do you call it? Their Veritas liner. No, no, it's. It's got
a veloce. That's the name. So I did the tasting again,
and Riedel does this thing where they take you through the glasses and it like
blows your mind how differently every wine tastes. And I started tasting
the red wines and Drinking red wines out of these bold, bigger baloche

(42:11):
glasses that they have. And I was like, I like red wine.
Again, what is going on? Like, I'm actually enjoying bolder red wines.
And so this is a weird thing for somebody who's so sensitive and has been
paying attention to their palate for years, that I didn't realize that my foundational
taste preferences were evolving based on the best wine for the
glass. And that blew my mind and that that happened recently. So

(42:33):
I'm like, still in the mind blown era.
So. Yeah. So I like, while I love universal glasses because they're
so pragmatic, your taste will evolve to liking the best
wine for that glass, whatever glass you choose. So choose
wisely. No pressure.
Fascinating. Dustin, what are your

(42:55):
thoughts? Yeah, so I'm gonna go. It's
right against what Madeline said. I actually
think. I think I use one type of
glass at home, and it's one. It's an all purpose glass. And I think there's.
This has been the best right now. The era we're in right now, I think
is the best era for wine glassware that there's ever been. Because

(43:17):
there's so many different, really fantastic brands, some of which have already been mentioned
here, that are making really, really high quality,
beautiful, very functional stemware. And
I think most brands are going to create,
you know, kind of what they might call an all purpose glass. Or it might
seem like a slightly larger white wine glass or maybe

(43:40):
a slightly smaller red wine glass, if you will. But for
me, like, you find that one that you like, and
I think that's really all you need. I use one glass and it's for everything
from sparkling to whites to reds. I think the
whole, like, you need specific glassware for different types of things. While I
do agree you can taste differences and nuances and things like that,

(44:02):
I think is my view is
it's a ploy from the big glassware companies to get you to buy a bunch
of different things you don't really need at your house. Sorry,
Madeline, but
I think you find one good glass that you, you like and
stick with that and stock your house with it. And it just makes life so

(44:24):
much easier, you know, not having to carry six
different things. In my house when I have, like, friends over for dinner or something
like that to serve them. I can serve them the champagne, the white wine, the
red wine on like the same glass. It just makes life so much nicer.
So that's my view on glassware. So I think, go find your
one and make that your one that's

(44:46):
it. Yeah, it definitely works if you like to host house parties.
Fortunately, I'm like a, a troll under the bridge. I don't really, you
know, have a lot of people over so I can have more space for
like, individual glasses. And like, my husband gravitates. He likes
the Riesling glass for a lot of different things, you know, so, yeah,
it. I'm like, I'm not, I'm not like saying, you know, but

(45:08):
it does. It is different. It does, it does, it does. There is a difference.
I agree. I'd argue if it's better or not, but. But I do. I do
think if you're in a restaurant setting, like when I was doing the restaurant floor
thing, so many people just expect to have like a different glass for a different
kind of wine. So you almost need to have like all these different things floating
around so that you can, you know, pretend like this is the

(45:30):
specific glass for this exact wine that I'm about to pour for you. Otherwise, it
doesn't quite seem fancy enough. Always felt like a bit of a
shtick to me. But, yeah, it's part of the experience. I'm like. I'm like, it's
part of the experience. Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I go and put an AP
down for, for a guy that's ordering, you know, Grand Cru Burgundy or something like
that, I want to get my head chopped off. So I definitely don't want that

(45:51):
to happen. Controversy.
We're going to leave it there. Let's go to segment four.
Organic, biodynamic and sustainable winemaking focus on
reducing environmental impact while influencing wine quality.
Organic wines of avoid synthetic chemicals. Biodynamic wines
follow holistic vineyard management. And sustainable winemaking

(46:14):
integrates eco friendly practices like water conservation and
renewable energy. Natural wines emphasize minimal
intervention, using native yeasts and avoiding filtration
or added sulfites. Supporters value authenticity, while
critics highlight inconsistency and susceptibility to faults.
Emerging wine regions include Patagonia's Cool Climate Pinot

(46:36):
Noir, Georgia's ancient Kvivry aged wines, and China's
growing Cabernet Sauvignon industry. Climate change is expanding viable
growing areas while challenging traditional regions.
Sustainability efforts include lightweight bottles, recycled
packaging, and fair labor practices. Certifications
like USDA Organic and Demeter help consumers

(46:57):
identify eco conscious wines as demand grows.
These practices shape the future of winemaking while preserving
tradition and quality.
Madeline, any insights on recent wine
trends or things that you see

(47:21):
not being understood fully?
Man, I mean, every one of us could speak on different trends. We're
seeing in the wine industry. I really like what Yannick brought up about
the old, original, ancient world wine. So new world, old
world, ancient world are sort of the words people are throwing around, although I don't
necessarily agree with any of them. But I, I like. We got. We gotta call

(47:44):
it something. We gotta categorize it somehow. So I
would say that the move towards alternative regions is interesting. And especially
now, let's. I'm not to say the T word in this conversation today,
but especially now with the. The T word coming around,
we are looking at regions that are producing great wines
at exceptional value because we can keep that price

(48:06):
point in the comfort zone and still offer
exceptional tasting wines. So I think we're going to see some of that coming
up here because the pricing will probably
change, undoubtedly. Because what are some of those areas?
Well, Ionic said a few of them, actually. You know,
Georgia, Turkey is incredible. Even areas

(48:27):
like Chile and Argentina have been kind of passed over. And we're going to
read back, look at what amazing new in innovations
are happening there. Australia used to be very popular in the
United States, and I think it's coming back around as well. So. So those are
some places that we can be looking at for great value. But even great value
in Western Europe, like Port, Portugal and Spain are going to be

(48:50):
exceptional places to look for classical wine regions doing
incredible things. So I like. I'm very keen on
those types of. Because I'm like, I might not be
pragmatic about glassware, but I am a bit pragmatic about value when
it comes to wine. I was never one who was destined to drink ground
crude Burgundy. I was one who was always looking for the, well, what is

(49:12):
as good as Grand Prix Burgundy, but doesn't have the price tag. And so I'm
always kind of leaning in that direction because I like wine
as a daily drinker, and to drink
responsibly as a daily drinker means your wine's in the budget.
So that's something that's very important to me. So as far as trends
go, I'm definitely excited about

(49:33):
diversity. Yannick, you've long
championed inclusion and innovation. How are
values like sustainability or organic
biodynamic, how are some of those
values shaping the
future of the. Of wine and dining experiences?

(49:55):
I mean, they're very important topics. And I think that a lot of these
wineries have done a tremendous job not just talking about it,
but actually doing something about it. I think that's really. It's a really great thing
to see, and I think it's not just about how well you're
farming, but what's your ethos within the winery, how you're, how
are you treating your employees, Are they getting

(50:16):
fair wages and all of that? That's all part of the whole
thing. I think also what needs to also be discussed is
because, you know, for sure, it's no secret that people are, I wouldn't
say in a panic, but very concerned that people are not drinking as much.
My only hope is that as we're talking about
undiscovered wine regions, I think that we have plenty of wine regions. I don't think

(50:39):
we need to discover more wine regions. I think we should just leave it as
it is right now because we definitely have a surplus of wines. Way
too much wine that's being made, that's not keeping up with the demand.
And I think that the period that we're going into right now, it's not a
bad one. I think people still very much like wine, they appreciate
it, but it's being incorporated into their life in a

(51:00):
different way. As opposed to having a couple of glasses every night,
maybe it's a couple times a week, you know, and so
consumption might be a little bit down. Okay. But
the production of wine is way too high. And so we need to find that
balance once again and realize that wine in many ways was
never really meant to just kind of like, oh, let's do a shot of that

(51:21):
and just kind of, you know, down a couple of bottles.
But really something that you just kind of incorporate while at the
table or just a setting with a group of friends. And that's what I love
about wine. It's a moment to share with people. Right. I mean, drinking
wine by itself can be quite nice, but generally speaking, the beauty of it is
when you're sharing with others. So I think that we kind of have to like,

(51:43):
not concern ourselves with what's a new hot wine region and just worry
about the places that exist right now and help promote them and make
sure that they're. They're still around in a couple of decades from now.
Dustin, from a retail and restaurant
perspective, are you seeing any shifts in consumer behavior
that surprise you?

(52:06):
Nothing, I would say that surprises me.
What I see mostly happening right now is what a lot of the data
points to, which is away from wine and
into things like cocktails, ready to drinks, spritzers, non
alcoholic beverages, et cetera. You know, from
the slew of restaurants that I tend to have a lot of visibility into,

(52:29):
and then, you know, from my network of friends still in the hospitality and restaurant
industry, you know, wine consumption and wine sales,
generally speaking, are down. I don't think it's a bad
thing per se. It just is what it is. So a lot of people are
trying lots of different things. I think it's exciting from a market
perspective. Um, but I would say that's,

(52:51):
that's kind of what I'm seeing. It's less of a, oh, what wine regions or
what new things are people tasting or what's trending? And it's
more kind of venturing outside of wine right now, from what I see.
Sarah, do you think younger generations will engage with wine
differently than previous ones? I think they already
are. I mean, I think that I'm not. I don't have

(53:14):
as much insight as some of the others here in the actual data behind
it. I can only speak anecdotally, but it does, it does
seem that just alcohol consumption in general seems to be
down compared to past generations. So that's
something. I do hope that
as people get older they start to realize that there's.

(53:35):
I do think that the younger generations say anyway that they value
experiences more than product sometimes. So like, I do
think that wine offers the opportunity to
maybe take a little slower but have a more engaged
and beautiful experience than, you know, as we were thinking about like just
taking a shot or, you know, just cracking a six pack

(53:57):
or whatever it is. So I don't, I don't know exactly what that looks like,
but I, that's my hope is that that experiential nature of wine is
something that really appeals to a younger generation. I
to go back to something Yannick was saying though, about values.
I also think the younger generation is a value driven
one. They like to know what, who the people are behind the

(54:19):
products that they are spending their money and they are consuming. And I do think
that one problem that we have right now is that the labels that are
on bottles are not. I think we need something around consumer
education to help people understand what these things, those words mean.
Because, just, just because if you see the word organic or
biodynamic or best part of their marketing story or natural or whatever it

(54:40):
is, those are really squishy terms, particularly
for wines coming from here. And there's a whole generation of people that's
being taught that that may think that that translates to some of
the values that we're talking about with, you know, with when you talk about
sustainable farming, like, okay, that. But are they treating their employees
well? Are they, are they like, there's, there's A lot of layers to

(55:02):
it. I think like one word does not begin to encompass. And
I wonder if, if there were more kind of clear
consumer markers for what those words really mean, that some
of the younger generation might actually be more involved and more interested in
buying wines from producers that all of us consider high
quality. Also thoughtful, you know, stewards of the land, of

(55:24):
their people and taking into accord what they can do for, from an
agricultural perspective for climate considerations and sustainability.
I think, you know, as we're talking about emerging regions or trends like one that
does that really well. I just did a panel for Envinate, that is
a wine from Spain, and they were saying that they, they have no
interest in expanding their holdings because they have, what they

(55:47):
can do right now is make sure that every single one of their employees is
really well taken care of. They can make sure that
whatever is demanded of them, they
can, they can supply and they're good with that. They're going
to, they're going to concentrate on coaxing the best quality product
and the most sustainable practices from the land that they have and

(56:09):
telling the stories that they want to tell and not kind of grinding
out something to meet a narrative that is useful from a sales
tactic for a lot of the organic, biodynamic natural producers
elsewhere and just call it focus on the quality. So, yeah, that's
a, there's a lot I'm trying to pack. There's a lot of stuff we could
get into in that one topic, but I think that's a high

(56:30):
level version of my opinion. Well said, Dustin. We've hit the
top of the hour. I think you have to hop before you go.
Any parting thought that you want to leave with us?
Parting thoughts? Experiment. Drink what you like,
have fun, read about it and educate yourself along the way because that's where the

(56:51):
fun comes in, learning about the regions and the cultures and the food, foods and
all that stuff. And yeah, don't be afraid to
ask lots of questions. It's my biggest, biggest
tips. Great advice. Thank you for joining today. Thanks
for having me. We're going to bring it home and go to our last
segment. Moderate wine consumption has been linked to

(57:12):
potential health benefits, particularly for heart health. Red
wine contains antioxidants like resveratrol, which may support
cardiovascular function by reducing inflammation and increasing
HDL cholesterol. Studies also suggest links to
improved cognitive function and blood sugar regulation,
however, exceeding recommended limits, one glass per day

(57:34):
for women, two for men can increase risks of liver
damage, high blood pressure and addiction. For dietary
considerations, most wines are Naturally gluten free, but some
may contain traces from processing. Vegan wines avoid animal
based fining agents, while keto friendly wines have low residual
sugar. Ethical concerns in winemaking include fair wages

(57:57):
and environmental sustainability. Certifications like fair
trade and Certified Sustainable Wine Growing indicate
responsible sourcing. Those struggling with alcohol dependence can
seek resources like Alcoholics Anonymous and National
Help Lines for support. Responsible consumption ensures
enjoyment without compromising health.

(58:23):
Yannick, you've spoken about wine as both a pleasure
as a pleasure and a point of connection. How do you
personally reconcile indulgence with wellness in your own
life? Well, I mean, life is all
about moderation, right? Temperance is a virtue. It's really important.
I know that one of my worst experiences,

(58:45):
you know, it's having that night, you know, out with friends, and you have that
third or fourth bottle when you know you shouldn't be having it, and the next
day you're like, oh my God, what did I do? Right? Because by the time
you have the third or fourth bottle, you're not really tasting anymore. It's just more
that you're drinking. But like I said,
I think that this is an exciting time for the world of wine.

(59:06):
This, this concept of moderation and health. I think it's
wonderful, right? I think that, you know, it's like anything else.
It's okay to have pizza. It's okay to have, you know, that chocolate mousse.
Certainly you don't want to have that every single day, but I think
we're all allowed to reward ourselves as long as we're taking care of our body.
You know, physical fitness, eating right, making sure that we're getting

(59:29):
all our nutrients. Because the key is it's not to, it's not
about how well you're going to live at that moment, but you want
to keep that body going and that mind going for the future to come for
that quality of life, right? And I think that having that balance and
rewarding yourself with a couple of glasses of wine during the week,
there's nothing wrong with that as long as you're doing everything

(59:51):
else to keep up with that, to, to get that reward.
And listen, wine has been with us for, for again, well over 8,
000 years. It has proven that if with balance
that there's no real harmful effects, right? I'm pretty
sure that today, if I decide to go have a cigarette right now, we've
proven that there are some positive effects of nicotine. Obviously, I'm

(01:00:14):
not going around encouraging people to smoke a cigarette, by all means, but if I
decided to have A cigarette right now, I don't think that it's going to have
any long term damaging effects if I start doing it every single day.
Even that one cigarette, probably not a good thing. So they're always
positive and they're always negatives. Again, at the end of the day, it really comes
down to moderation and temperance. Sarah, I

(01:00:35):
love that with Kalamata's Kitchen and Taste Bud Travel
Guide, you're bridging generations. How do you think early
exposure to mindful eating and food storytelling
can shape more responsible consumption later in life?
Well, I do think that kids paying attention to what they eat. And don't
worry, Kalamana's Kitchen has nothing to do with teaching kids about wine, but it does

(01:00:57):
teach them how to pay attention to the what they
consume. So, like, for example, my son is 18 months old. Every single
time I peel an orange, he watches me do it and
he takes a piece of the peel and he smells it and he does that
while I'm peeling the rest of the orange. Now he does that because I showed
him how to do that. And we do that with basically every food he eats.

(01:01:19):
I make sure we look at it, we say, wow, look at this. Then
we smell it, we stick our noses in it, we smell it. And all of
this is just making him pay attention. He's not, he can't say anything other
than dog and garlic for some reason. So it's not like he's, it's
not like he's developing some, like, you know, some palate or like
I'm trying to train him in some way to be a psalm. I. You

(01:01:41):
are. I, what I'm trying to do is make
him pay attention because I think that paying it, first of
all, paying attention to what you're consuming is just good for you
mentally and emotionally. Right. Like when I look at what
I eating and I take a deep breath and I enjoy the smell and then
I take a bite and I really think about what I'm having. Like, it just

(01:02:03):
makes me happy. I'm like, oh, this is so much better experience than like,
like trying to write emails while I'm shoveling something into my mouth at work,
which I also sometimes do, but it's less, it's less fun. So I'm trying to
train that with my kid now because I do believe that
the more he pays attention to the things that he is consuming in general,
the better choices he'll make for himself. I don't know whether it's hard.

(01:02:25):
This is anecdotal, right? I don't know Whether this is because of what I've trained
him with, with, like, fruits and veggies and stuff, but he doesn't. He
literally, like, will go to the fridge, will open it. There's all this
food and there's all these snacks and stuff. And he points at the blueberries or
he points at the strawberries, or he points at, you know, whatever other fruit is
in there, because that's what, like, I've spent the most time having him

(01:02:46):
smell, feel, whatever, right? So I think. I think that for me, anecdotally,
is evidence of mindful consumption leading to better
choices. And I do think that from a
multi generational point, when kids watch their parents
enjoying themselves with food, with wine,
with whatever, like, they like to be part of the same experience. And so

(01:03:08):
I host a lot of dinners at my house where I invite all
my friends and their children to come over for, like, I'll do like a whole
lunar New Year menu or a Mardi Gras menu or what, A whole table full
of Indian food or whatever it is. We all eat the same food. We all
talk about it together. The kids are eating with us at the same table.
The kids get their own drinks and their own special glasses, and the adults

(01:03:30):
are having wines that I've generally paired with the meals. And I just think
them being involved in the experience of watching us mindfully consume,
consume in moderation most of the time, and,
you know, enjoying ourselves and that community makes the
experience of food and drink, again, an experience
versus just a mechanism. And I do think this

(01:03:53):
particularly in this country. I grew up with a very strong South
Indian background. And food, it's very cultural for us. Like, it's.
Everything is communal. Everything is shared from big plates. We eat as a
family all the time. I've noticed with a lot of my friends who grew
up here and don't have that kind of cultural background, food
was very separated. It was very separate from the family. It maybe came in a

(01:04:16):
box. And I'm not shaming any of that. It's just different from. It's different from
experience. And I am trying to create an
environment where families embrace the togetherness of the
actual food and drink experience. Because I do think that leads to
better choices, more empathy, more respect, and
more curiosity and joy around food and drink. I'm

(01:04:38):
getting so hungry right now, and I'm assuming no
chicken fingers at your parties. There are no chicken fingers
in my house. But if you ask my dear husband Tyler, one of his
favorite foods is definitely chicken fingers. But,
no, we. We do our best to to keep all the food, all
the kids. The kids eat the same stuff that we do. Madeline, your

(01:05:00):
thoughts? You're doing like a public service by hosting these
big dinners, by the way. That's like, that's a fair amount of
work. So, yeah, I'm just hiding out at home. I don't even
have furniture in my house right now. We just sit on the floor
and we do make food and eat on a plate, but like, it's
definitely on the floor right now. But it's like a bohemian era that

(01:05:22):
I'm in right now. It's
interesting. The cat hangs out. It's good. It's good. It's definitely very American.
But yeah, less boxes, though. I still cook a lot of food.
Let's talk about wine and health because there's been some recent
studies and I want to just recap what we know right now.
So you all know what's going on right now. And I'm referencing an

(01:05:44):
email that my wine and health overview. I have
a doctor who looks at a lot of our content and keeps us up on
a lot of what's going on. And there's been some recent findings that have made
everybody nervous about drinking and drinking wine.
And the most, the biggest one was the anti alcohol
messaging associated with the. In January 2023,

(01:06:07):
3, the World Health Organization put out that there's
no safe level of alcohol, regardless of whether it's wine, beer
or liquor. And then in February 24th of
2024, New York Times published How Red Wine Lost its Health
halo. And both of these pieces coming out, the World
Health Organization with their piece coming out

(01:06:29):
has whole countries, their
health organizations reconsidering their
guidelines for what is a moderate level of alcohol
consumption. So I'll give you an example. We have
half of my team, more than half of my team is Canadian. I love, I
love Canada. And

(01:06:49):
Canada's level of drinking went from two drinks per day
per man, one drink per day per woman, down to just two drinks
per week. So massive changes
have occurred on the sort of like guideline level which has
created this idea that now moderate is a different
level. What you thought moderate was before is no longer moderate today. So what

(01:07:12):
is moderate? Well, some. Just a
study that came out this year in 2025
that is sort of relooked at all of these things because
we, we were really shocked by those changes that have occurred with the
guidelines and tried to figure out, well, what's really going on. I just
closed it. I just had it open and I just, just close that. I'm A

(01:07:33):
dumb, dumb. Okay. So I found
it. This review
of evidence on alcohol and health by the U.S.
national academies of Sciences, Engineering and Medicine
analyzed it, a cohort study of thousands of studies to inform the next
Dietary Guidelines for Americans. And one of its headline findings was that

(01:07:55):
moderate alcohol consumption, defined as one drink per day for women and two
drink for men, was associated with a 16 lower risk of
all deaths compared to lifelong abstainers.
What. So that's a pretty big
finding that they found, and this is current research that just came out in
2025 that was essentially,

(01:08:17):
you have a lower mortality if you're having a drink,
and not a lot, but like I said, it's one drink per day
per woman and two drinks per day for men. So
we have these other things that we've talked about that are associated
with health risks with alcohol. And the idea of moderation is
very important. If you're drinking more than moderation, your health risk,

(01:08:40):
your mortality risk goes up. Right? There's a sweet
spot. Right? What is that sweet spot? There's also a question about
cancer. And the
essentially the finding was, or the finding that's out there in the world is
that wine, drinking wine increases cancer and
specifically breast cancer in women. And that's the big fear. Now this

(01:09:02):
was a, this was a cohort study looking
at 26. There were 73
studies, 26 were included in the, in the meta
analysis, which have looked carefully out
of the overall risk factor of cancer
and in drinking wine. And what they found

(01:09:22):
is the error rate of the study that came out
with the breast cancer thing was between
99 and 108 with a 95
percentile like
confidence. So that those are, those are some
fine numbers there, but they're not complete numbers. So

(01:09:43):
99 is below risk and over 100.
100 is, is a risk factor you should be concerned about. So the
fact that we have this in here and specifically for wine, and this was not
the case with the other alcohols that they tested. So
beer and spirits. But for whatever reason,
and we can talk about this resveratrol thing, for whatever reason

(01:10:06):
the wine was in, in that include all wines, white or red wines. Because, you
know, when you do a cohort, say when people ask about alcohol
consumption, it's usually when you go in to do your health checkup, you're like, how
much do you drink per day? And that's where they find out actually how
much you're drinking. You can't actually test people with alcohol in the
world. So long story short, it is

(01:10:28):
still somewhat inconclusive this evidence that we have, there
is a moderate risk factor, but overall risk of
cancer is lower ultimately because we've got cardiovascular cancer and
that kind of a thing. And with breast cancer, there is,
there's such a big, like,
confidence range that we're still uncertain about that. And

(01:10:50):
what we've generally come to sort of think is
that wines with tannin, wines with texture, wines
with, with that feeling, that sort of astringent feeling on your, on
your palate, kind of like you're licking a wet tea bag. Those tend to be
the wines that have the highest, the lowest, like
the highest amount of good stuff in a wine. What's bitter is better.

(01:11:12):
And that is still true today. So we've
had some major health guidelines change in the world recently in recent
years, but in this year, some studies
have come out that are like, hey, the US Is probably not going to
change their health guidelines based on this information. So sorry, that was
long. But like, there's a lot of information out there and a lot of

(01:11:34):
storytelling that's going along that is neo prohibitionist.
And I just want to like, hey, I want to set the record straight a
bit. And I'm not a doctor, so please talk to your doctor before making any
concerted effort of changing your alcohol intake. Thank
you.

(01:11:57):
You're on mu.
Andy, you're muted.
I don't know what I'm doing. Thank you, Dr. Madeline. Really
appreciate the up to date health
info. This has been such a delicious

(01:12:18):
conversation. I learned so much today. I hope that you did too.
My biggest takeaway wine doesn't have to be
intimidating. It's not about knowing every region or
memorizing your tail tasting notes. It's about enjoying
the experience. It's about being curious. It's about finding
joy in the parent, in the pairings that make a meal

(01:12:40):
truly memorable. Whether you're opening a special bottle or
just grabbing something from the grocery store, it's really about how it
fits into your life and how it enhances the moment.
And I hope that everybody today enjoyed
listening to the passion and love that the
panelists today had for both wine

(01:13:02):
and food. I have never been among a
group who gets so excited about talking about glassware.
And it's my experience that when you
hang out with people that are this passionate
about food and drink, everything tastes
better. So. So even though I don't drink wine

(01:13:24):
myself, hearing the experts
talk about flavor pairing and
storytelling made me appreciate just how much
wine can bring to the table, both literally and
figuratively. So here's one simple thing that
our inspired money maker tuning in can do this

(01:13:45):
week. Plan one meal, just one where you really
slow down and think about the pairing. Whether it's wine with dinner,
sparkling water with citrus, or just the table
with. You know, set the table with intention and create an
experience. Invite friends over, light a candle,
enjoy it. Let food and drink be a reminder

(01:14:07):
to live well. That's what it's all about. If you enjoyed
this live with us today, please share the episode with a friend,
Tag me on LinkedIn or social media and send me a message. I'd love to
hear your feedback. A shout out to the inspired Money production team.
Excellent segments by Bradley John, Eagle Feather and graphic
animations by Chad Lawrence. Finally, let's thank our

(01:14:30):
amazing panelists one more time. Be sure to follow them. Learn
more from them. Madeline Puckette Check out her
James Beard Award winning book Wine Folly the Essential
Guide to Wine. You can find her@wine folly.com
anything anywhere else you want to send people. Madeline,
you got it. All right. Dustin.

(01:14:54):
He is a master sommelier, entrepreneur, co founder of
Verve Wine. Check out his Psalm film series
and you can find him at vervewine.com
Yannick Benjamin is co founder of
no he's owner of Beaupierre Wine and Spirits
and you can find

(01:15:17):
all about his nonprofit and charitable
projects
at wineonwheels.org Yannick anywhere you want to send people.
No, you said it all right there. You know, just see on
Instagram or reach out to me
yannick@wineonwheels.org Love to hear from you. Follow him on

(01:15:39):
IG and Sarah Thomas, co founder and Chief Brand
Officer at Kalamata's Kitchen.
Find her at kalamataskitchen.com I I think you have other
URLs too Sarah. Anything else you want to share? You have a lot of
cool projects going on, right? I see on your ig.
Yeah, you have cool things happening. Always something. So I would say our

(01:16:02):
our Instagram's probably a good place to keep up with that. That's
me at Sarah Thomas or at Kalamata's Kitchen.
And if you have kids, grandkids, whatever, and you like taking them around
restaurants with you to go to the Taste budtravel
guide.com to find everything from food trucks to
fine dining that we've laid out for you,

(01:16:24):
curated for you to have a great time with the whole. Family,
I love it. It's been so interesting watching my kids like they're so
different with their food even though the food at our
dinner table is the same but their individual
personalities are so different. Like my son, for the longest
time he, he told me he would he could eat

(01:16:46):
chili every day for every meal. And slowly
he's like branched out. Still no seafood.
He's the only one in our house that refuses to eat
any, any form of seafood. But he's, he,
I think he's going to get there in college. He's going to be like dating
somebody who only eats sushi or something and then finally he'll give

(01:17:08):
in. But yes, so, so fascinating
to live or relive
flavors through our children's eyes. Thanks once again to
all our panelists today. Thank you to the to you, the viewer
and the listener. Please join us. Next week, Inspired money will be
back. We're going to be talking about watch collecting as

(01:17:30):
legacy treasures timepieces for retirement
generations. It's going to be a lot of fun. That's Wednesday, April
16th at 1pm Eastern. Until then, do something
that scares you because that's where the magic happens. Thanks, everyone.

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