The Power of Networking: Building Meaningful Connections for Personal and Professional Growth

Episode Transcript
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(00:50):
Aloha Inspired Money Maker. Welcome. Thank you for tuning in.
If this is your first time here, welcome. If you're returning,
welcome back. As you know, we cover a lot of topics here
on Inspired Money. It ranges the gamut from investing
to giving away to charities to
classic cars and watches and wine

(01:14):
in the vein of. You know, you often hear the phrase
the best investment you can make is in yourself.
Today's episode is the Power of Networking, building
meaningful connections for personal and professional growth
in this topic. Some people love it, some people absolutely hate
it. But I think that we can all agree on one thing. Networking

(01:36):
is one of the most important skills in business and in life.
And yet no one really teaches us how to do it.
We graduate with degrees, we have resumes, maybe even
have some internships. But too often
we lack the tools to walk into a room of strangers

(01:56):
and turn it into opportunity. Not the
confidence to reach out on LinkedIn and make a real connection.
Not the know how to transform small talk into big breakthroughs.
Let me take you, take you and tell you like a really quick
story. Years ago, a friend of mine, she got laid off
unexpectedly. Instead of panicking,

(02:20):
she sent just one thoughtful message to someone she hadn't
spoken to in three years and that message turned into
coffee. That coffee turned into a job offer in a
totally new career direction. That's the power of networking.
Whether you're ready to grow your business, reinvent your career or just
get better information and insights, your network is one of

(02:43):
your greatest assets. But how do you build a network that actually
works? What if you're an introvert? What if you're
overwhelmed by going to a conference of 10,000 people?
How you create meaningful, authentic relationships instead of
shallow exchanges. That's what we want to address in
this episode today. It's about answering those questions and we've

(03:04):
assembled a great panel of experts who've helped thousands of people
to unlock powerful relationships. So stay tuned.
I hope that you're going to walk away with practical tips, new ways about thinking
of networking, and maybe, just maybe, the
spark to make your next life changing connection. Before
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(04:10):
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(04:34):
making more informed investment decisions today.
Let's meet today's incredible lineup of guests, each of whom brings
a unique perspective on how to build meaningful game changing
relationships. First up we have Susan
Roanne, a true legend in the world of
networking. She's the best selling author of how to Work a Room and

(04:56):
is affectionately known as the Mingling Maven.
With over a million books sold and decades of speaking experience,
Susan has helped audiences around the world master the art of
confidently connecting in any room, whether it's a conference,
a cocktail party or a zoom call. If you've ever
wondered what to say after hello, Susan is your go

(05:18):
to guide. Susan, welcome. Thank you.
Pleasure to be here. Next, we're joined by J.
Kelly Hoey, a dynamic networking expert,
speaker and author of Build Your Dream Network. Kelly's
work is all about modern relationship building, how to make meaningful
connections in a digital first world. She's

(05:40):
advised executives, entrepreneurs and creatives alike on how to
grow their networks with intention and impact. If you think
networking is all business cards and small talk, I think
Kelly will change our minds. Kelly, so glad to have you
here. Thank you for having me Andy.
Joining us as well is David Spinks, a thought leader in community

(06:02):
building and the author
of the Business of Belonging. David cofounded
CMX, the leading professional network for community builders
and has worked with companies like Google, Facebook and Airbnb
to build thriving, values driven communities. Today he
coaches leaders and founders on how to lead with clarity, presence and

(06:24):
purpose. And his insights on
belonging are more relevant than ever.
David, so glad that you're here. Happy to be here.
And rounding out our panel today we have Matthew Pollard, also
known as the Rapid Growth Guy. Matthew is the bestselling
author of the Introvert's Edge, a series

(06:47):
of books and he's a he's globally recognized as a sales
and networking expert. He's built five multi million dollar
businesses and was just named selling powers 2023
Sales Kickoff Speaker of the Year. Matthew's living proof that
introverts.
He's here to show us how.

(07:09):
So glad that you're here. Excited to be here. Thanks for having me.
Well, with this dream team of experts, we're diving deep into the power of
networking. From small talk strategies to long term relationship
building and how even the most unexpected conversations
can lead to transformational outcomes.
Let's get started with segment one. Networking is more

(07:33):
than just exchanging business cards or connecting online. It's about
building relationships with intent. Choosing the right networking approach
depends on personal preferences, industry demands and long term
goals. In person, networking offers immediate feedback,
stronger rapport and trust building opportunities. It includes
conferences, meetups and industry events where spontaneous

(07:55):
conversations often lead to unexpected opportunities. For
introverts, smaller gatherings or structured networking
groups can provide a more comfortable environment. Online
networking extends reach beyond geographical limits,
allowing professionals to connect through platforms like LinkedIn,
Twitter or industry specific communities. Each

(08:16):
platform serves different LinkedIn for professional
branding, Twitter for thought leadership, and niche forums for
specialized discussions. A hybrid approach combines both
leveraging online tools to maintain connections formed in person,
strategic engagement, consistency and follow ups ensure
networking remains a valuable tool for personal and professional growth.

(08:45):
Matthew, you argue that introverts can be the best networkers
with the right system. How did you go from painfully
shy and terrified to thriving in sales, networking and public
speaking? Well, I think to answer your networking question,
I think it's I threw away the elevator pitch. I feel like most
introverts would rather have a root canals and go out

(09:07):
networking, especially if they have to do the traditional elevator script which is,
you know, I do this for this group of people, even if, which basically just
sounds so transactional. I mean when I, when I first moved to the United States,
I made the decision that I was going to help introverts, predominantly
introverts that wanted to grow businesses and I wanted to teach them the
skills that I'd learned over the years because I also fell into sales and had

(09:29):
no business being in sales either. And I remember the first time I started to
explain what it was that I did and I remember
them telling me about this gym that they owned and they asked me,
after about 10 minutes of explaining what they did, what I did, and I said,
oh, I'm a sales trainer and oh my gosh, I wish I didn't say that
because he then for the next five minutes explained the bad experiences he had. He

(09:50):
looked at me like I was one step above a scam artist and I was
like, well, I'm not going to do that anymore. Maybe I'll say I'm a marketer
next time. Well, so I said I was a marketer the next time. And straight
away I got this, oh, I need marketing. How much do you cost? And I'm
like, well, I just met you, I'm. Now we're talking about price. And then the
next person said, oh, you know, I, you know, I, you know, I've already got
someone in marketing and what am I? I've got magic ruby slippers. What do you

(10:12):
say to that? So what I realized is there needed to be a new way
of explaining what I did and I needed to create a category of my
own. And if we get time, I mean, that's why I call myself the rapid
growth guy. But when somebody asked me what that is because it basically breaks their
brain, they're like, well, I don't know what box to put that in. Plus, I've
been interested. I try to be interesting. I will then respond with,
well, one of the things I love to see more than anything in the world

(10:34):
is an amazing introverted service provider with enough talent, skill and belief in themselves to
start a business of their own. I just find that I just hate seeing this.
They get stuck in this endless hamster wheel of struggling to find interested people, trying
to set themselves apart, trying to make the sale, feeling like people only care about
one thing, price. Do you know anyone like that? And now I'm asking for
them to give me permission to continue on. When they,
they say I am like that, I will then say, well, my mission is. And

(10:57):
I will then go into my mission and then maybe I'll go into a story,
but becomes a dialogue because they're asking me questions as opposed to
saying, I have this functional skill which gets shut down or
saying an elevator pitch, which, I mean, let's face it, most introverts aren't going to
do that. We do this aimless networking thing which is basically underselling
ourselves and walking out with a bunch of business cards. Nobody calls us and we

(11:19):
don't call them. So the whole thing is pointless. I love the
testing that you went through. Susan, I want to ask you
because you teach the self introduction, not as an
elevator pitch. It's a pleasantry. What's your formula for
a great introduction? Well, I totally agree
with Matthew. Elevator pitches should be pitched and

(11:41):
don't even do them in an elevator because no one got in that small little
room riding up and down to hear you talk about yourself. That's
number one. The self introduction has three parts
to it. The first is it is a pleasantry. It's
seven to nine seconds. If you go on 30
seconds about yourself, my eyes are rolling in the back of my

(12:04):
head and you can hear it. Seven to nine seconds. It's a
pleasantry. The second trait is
you give people
context for why you're there so they know
what makes you be in that room. That helps them connect
with you. And the third one, and I got this from my

(12:27):
friend Patricia Fripp, outstanding executive
speech coach, first woman president of National
Speakers Association. She said to me one day, RoAne
calls me by my last name. You tell them not to give
their title. What you give. And this kind of links to what
Matthew said briefly, is the benefit of what you

(12:49):
do. I had that happen to me. I was going to the same coffee shop
to write. I was writing, What Do I Say Next? And I'd see this guy
there every time. And one day we had a power outage, so
I had to reorganize my writing.
And we started to talk, and he asked me
what I did. He could tell I had paper and pencil. Yes, that's how I

(13:11):
wrote my books. And I asked him what he did, and he
said this. I help rich people
sleep at night. Oh, my
God. I said, oh, what pharmacy do you work for? But the
reality is, he said, oh, I'm a financial
planner. So what he did is he hooked me

(13:33):
in with the benefit, and, you know, we've
been friends ever since. So it's about giving
people something that they can connect with.
And here's the Susan RoAne. And this is everyone who's listening,
watching. Bring who you are to what you do.
People connect with who you are. What you do is

(13:56):
secondary. Be a person first.
David, I want to ask you, because you revealed a secret on LinkedIn
this morning, you kind of hate networking.
How does networking differ from community building?
Yeah, it's a good question. Yeah.

(14:17):
I see networking as something that comes as a result
of the work you do and the relationships you build over time.
I think people tend to see networking as, oh, if I network enough, then I
will be successful and I will be able to build great things. And in my
experience, it's just gone the other way. By building great things, by building
great communities, the network emerges from there.

(14:41):
The difference between a network and a community. So a network,
you're generally looking at the individual as the node.
If it's my network, I'm connected to all of these different people,
and I'm the center. A community looks a lot more like a web.
So lots of different people all connected to each other, and
it's more interconnected in a way. And

(15:04):
another thing I've experienced in my career is the best way to actually
build your network is to build community. Not to get everyone to know you
and for you to make all the connections, but to be connecting people with each
other and creating this more
interwoven ecosystem that will really lead
to you having a strong network and put you in a position where

(15:25):
people see you as a gatherer, as an organizer, which is
a really powerful place to be. I love
that perspective. Kelly, you talk about the shift
from who you know to who knows what you know.
What role does having a digital presence play in
building a credible network? And a shout out to your, like, half million

(15:48):
LinkedIn followers! I hope they're all
watching right now. You know, yes,
people sort of say the eras of it's, you know, what you know or who
you know. And I said, no, we live in the era of who knows what
you know, because right now, while we are all having this
great conversation on networks and networking and introverts

(16:09):
and, you know, small talk and introductions and,
oh, God, I hate elevator pitches too, is. Is,
you know, people are looking us up online. So as I like
to say, you're networking when you're sleeping because
people may be looking up, you know, your digital presence. And
if you're really lucky, you know, to pick up on David's point, you've got a

(16:31):
community of people who are talking you up or, you know, as
Matthew pointed out, you know, somebody who's had a great experience
with you, working with you, is recommending you to somebody
else. So in this era, you need to think, as I
like to say, every human interaction
is a chance to build a relationship, and that can happen

(16:54):
in a multitude of different places. And having that is
kind of freeing because David's point of hating
networking, you know, just schmoozing for the sake of it. Like,
why? You know, like, there's other things
we can do with our time, like a sofa and Netflix. But,
you know, it's also kind of scary because every text,

(17:16):
every post, every interaction with someone
else, be it a colleague, a sales call,
you know, you name it. Standing in the line, you know, getting on a
plane, you know, could lead to something. You just. We
just don't know. In this day and age. How
strategic or intentional do you have to be in,

(17:39):
like, your LinkedIn profile and what you're
posting about? I mean, you know, Susan
talked about, you know, being human, putting the benefit out there
first. Is it similar doing it Online or is it different?
Well, I think of networking spaces. I'd love to hear everybody else's. I think
of them the same way I do as physical spaces. So how

(18:01):
you are interacting, like let's take example, you get a
promotion. How you would describe that with your
professional colleagues or industry groups is likely different
than how you would describe it to your friends and family, which is different than
how you would be sitting with a group of mates
in a pub, having a pint and celebrating your promotion. It's still

(18:23):
you, but the conversation is slightly different. So I think you need
to contextualize these things. I also think you need to be very
clear on what it is you want to be known
and found for. So probably like everybody here
thinking Susan talking before her first teaching job in the Haight in San
Francisco, my first career was as an attorney.

(18:47):
I sure as heck don't want people calling me on banking and
insolvency law, though those
jobs, particularly insolvency, are in high demand right now.
Not what I want to be called on. So you need to think
about what is it that I want to be found for?
What is it that I want to start and initiate and have other

(19:09):
people initiate and continue conversations with me about.
Who else wants to weigh in? I'm going to weigh in. I
started in Chicago in the bad old days. But when
I was here, and I still do this, I was the language arts teacher
and one of my biggest successful students ended up being

(19:31):
a stand up comic who won the Seattle Comedy
competition. I told everyone I gave him his start. I
still do this, though. I still in my mind correct
people's grammar and I have a T shirt that says that. But I like
what you said. It's so funny because when I
did my first career change for workshop. Yes.

(19:53):
At San Francisco State, a woman there was an attorney and she said,
is there any career change workshops? Mine were for
teachers for attorneys. I said, no, why don't you start one?
And she did, and that became her career. I think there's so many things
out there, but we as
humans need to support people in what they're

(20:15):
interested in. And I love the idea of what you said about
community. And I'm going to correct this. I have two
separate books. Working A Room is not
networking. They have nothing in common with each other.
There's not a word similar. Knowing how to work a
room is really about socializing. Knowing how to

(20:37):
network is the process that happens afterwards
where you build and stay in touch with people. And I would
underscore this. Those incidental conversations
in line at the airport awarded me
two friends that I have stayed in touch with, in fact,
one of whom moved here. And I watched Good Night and Good Luck with Her

(20:59):
the other day. So, you know, if we look at everything as
what is the purpose and what can I get out of it? I
think we're screwing ourselves. We need to be just a little
bit more relational rather than transactional.
You know, I would actually add to that, Andy, I think networking starts before
you go into any networking room as well. I mean, when I first

(21:22):
got invited to this, there was a post that went out and shared
all the panelists you were going to have. And so the first thing I did
is I connected with everybody that was going to be on the panel.
On top of that, I noticed that there were some people attending. So shout out
to Jason Lewis, who is also an attendee on this,
as he's just watching along. And I know that

(21:43):
he's in New York. I know all about him. And I'm so blown away. When
I speak at events, a lot of times people like, oh, I just never know
who's going. And it's funny, I spoke at an event for Intel
a while back, and one of the attendees came up afterwards and we talked for
about 20 minutes. He's like, oh, but it's easy to talk to you. I know
all about you. I've just seen you present for an hour. I can't do that

(22:03):
with everyone here. And this was. It was the global
meetup for the heads of global sales, the head of global
marketing. I was like, what I know about intel is you considered a
newbie if you've been there for less than 20 years. So is it fair to
assume that most of these people were there last year? Were there not an attendant?
Was there not an attendance list that went out? Yeah, but I don't know anything

(22:25):
about them. I'm like, can you not connect with them on LinkedIn beforehand? I mean,
for me, when I go to a networking room, I want to know who's going
to be in the room. There is no way I'm going to go into a
networking room unprepared, because then I'm going to end up speaking to someone that's going
to try and sell me insurance. What my focus is, is before
I go to any meetup, I mean, meetup.com, it was an example of

(22:45):
this. You go to their LinkedIn profiles. Some people are, oh, but there
isn't a way that I can easily check. But there is a conference app.
Well, I can match the names of the people with the photos on
LinkedIn and easily work out what they do.
And some people will say, well, that takes a lot of time. And I'm like,
well firstly I can get someone on my team to do that, but secondly, it

(23:05):
takes a lot more time to talk to someone that's going to try and sell
me insurance as opposed to someone I really want to talk to. And then
sometimes people will say, well, actually I can't even do that because there is
no app. And I'm like, well, okay, what else can we do? Let me look.
Is there a Facebook group about the meetup? Well, yeah, there is. Well, who went
last month? Are they tagged? Great, let's look those up on, let's look

(23:26):
those people up on LinkedIn and see what they do. And then I connect with
everybody in advance and not everybody, but the people I want to speak
to. And I say, oh, I'm really interested. I'm really, you know, on a mission
to help introverts realize they're not second class citizens. Their path to success is just
different. Is there a lot of introverts that come to this event
and half the time I'm going to get, well, I'm an introvert. Yeah, you should

(23:46):
absolutely come or I'm an extrovert. Don't worry, I'll show you every, I'll introduce you
to everybody. I don't know why extroverts think we need babysitting, but for
some reason they think we do. But for me, I find
that by going in to any room, I want to make
sure it feels like a bunch of pre planned meetings. So then when I walk
in, I walk in and there's a whole bunch of familiar faces

(24:07):
and every now and then I'll walk up and somebody will look at me weird
and then they'll realize that we connected on LinkedIn and they're dying to come and
speak to me. Why? Because they're introverted and they are worried about
speaking to someone that's going to sell them insurance or someone that they don't know.
So all of a sudden I got a 50/50 chance that half the room's dying
to speak to me because they don't know anyone there and the other half are
dying to help me meet everybody because then they've got an excuse to talk to

(24:31):
everybody because they're extroverted. Plus I know everything about them because I've
checked out what books they've just been posting about. It just feels like
I'm coming into a warm audience with a bunch of already existing
friends as opposed to starting fresh.
I love it, so invest some of the time up front. It will save
you time on the back end. Let's go into segment

(24:53):
two. Approaching new connections can feel intimidating,
but confidence grows with preparation and practice. A clear
introduction, strong posture and active listening set the stage
for meaningful conversations. First impressions matter.
Tone, eye contact and body language influence how
interactions unfold. Active listening goes beyond hearing words.

(25:16):
It includes responding with thoughtful follow up questions,
observing nonverbal cues and demonstrating engagement.
Asking open ended questions encourages deeper discussions and
builds stronger connections. Networking is not just about
receiving, it's about offering value, sharing relevant
insights, making introductions and supporting others without immediate

(25:37):
expectations strengthens relationships. Thoughtful follow ups
reinforce connections showing genuine interest. Cultural differences
shape communication styles, making awareness essential for
respectful interactions whether in person or online. The
key is consistency, regular check ins, shared
insights and celebrating others successes turn brief

(25:59):
introductions into long term professional relationships.
So in the previous segment we established elevator pitch is
not so good. Susan, you often speak about
leaning into the greeting. What are the subtle body

(26:19):
language cues that make a big difference? Well,
I'll address that, but I'd want to say to our audience, body
language is not a science, but it
gives us a hint when we lean in to a
greeting. And by the way, during the pandemic I said please
don't shake hands. Now we're back to doing that. When we lean into

(26:41):
a greeting, we're extending ourselves and actually
welcoming. If we greet someone like
this, we don't look like we really mean the
greeting. So leaning in is something that's really important.
And when you go to exit, you don't lean in,
you just stand. Because leaning in has a different meaning.

(27:05):
You know, one of the things that I think about
is that we have made networking a pariah.
And by the way, I know a lot of really dirty bad words,
really, and I say them all the time and networking is
not one of them.

(27:26):
I won't give you examples of ones that are so
I think when people and the people who are negative on
networking forget that and I did write this as
a tweet and post, all the people
badmouthing networking are always happy when they are the
recipient of information, leads, advice,

(27:48):
referrals, etc.
Kelly, you stress the importance of active listening.
How do you stay fully present and engage in conversations? I
know that if I'm in a room, how do you resist
looking around the room or thinking about what you should
say next? It's hard. It's hard

(28:11):
because I think we all think we're good at, you know, listening, but what
we're really good is at hearing. And
the best thing you can do in terms of making a connection is to
be fully present. I think it goes to what Matthew said
before, understanding why you're in the room in the first place.

(28:31):
Why are you choosing to
devote your time and energy in a particular way?
I think it's, it's opening yourself to be curious and interested
and you sort of get all these combination of factors. But if you know why
you're in the room and why you want to be some, why you're, you're looking
to engage with people there, right? This is

(28:54):
where you've got a conversation starter. This is where
you sort of think, oh, I don't need to think about what am I going
to say next? What am I going to say next? Let me just hear what
this person has to say and from there will be
able to pull threads and see where it goes. So,
you know, I think listening is an

(29:14):
active. Listening is one of the most
difficult and most important skills you can work on.
And it's not a part of
networking that people prioritize because we've been
so fixated on how do we polish up our elevator pitch,
you know, and what's the right way to do this and what's the right way

(29:37):
to do that. And it's like, why don't you just listen? Why don't you
just listen and see where it goes?
Matthew, I love the preliminary work that you do
ahead of an event. Finding people on LinkedIn,
trying to connect, doing some research. It really helps to
build, I think, your confidence. And then when you have an

(30:00):
interaction with that person, you just, it's
like you got a head start. Do you have favorite go to
conversation starters or techniques that turn the small
talk into something more meaningful? Yeah, absolutely.
And just so everyone's aware, I mean, when I go into a networking
room because I haven't just connected with people, they've responded.

(30:22):
So now most people don't know this and if you don't, this is
by far one of the best features in the world, especially for sales, to get
those people that have ghosted you to come back to the table. And
just like introverts are great at lead with empathy when you do this. But you
can actually send audio messages from LinkedIn now through your
iPhone or your Android phone. And people always respond

(30:43):
really for one of two reasons. One is because they want to respond or the
other is they want to know how you did that. And because of that you
can actually get people engaged. So what I will do is I'll connect with people,
but then I will send them an audio message and I'll start the dialogue before
we even get there. So they've seen my face a few times, I've seen their
face a few times. So when I get there, it's really easy. I'll

(31:04):
literally walk into a room and I will see
somebody's face that I recognize. And the moment that I start the
dialogue. Matt, I can't believe you reached out to me on LinkedIn beforehand. I
should do that more. It's really easy. I don't really need to do any work.
Now. I will say that I interviewed Ivan Misner on my
podcast. He's the founder of BNI and he's a

(31:27):
really good friend of mine. Every time I go back to Austin, I get a
chance to go to his house. He talks about open pairs
and he goes into detail on it. So I won't waste everybody's time on it
today. But I would really suggest go to the Introverts Edge podcast and watch him
kind of break down exactly what you should do.
But he also highlighted that what you would consider the best

(31:48):
skills. He did a survey for all the BNI network and the
best skills or the things that people appreciate most from networking,
wasn't that the big bravado personalities or the.
It was far more the person that actually listened and paid, more
importantly, wasn't thinking about what to say next, but actually
listen to what you said and asked follow on questions. Now, I do want

(32:11):
to be clear because a lot of people, when somebody asks them what they
do, respond in a different way. They don't
answer the question. They don't talk about their functional skill. They don't deliver an elevator
pitch. They think they're being clever and they say, oh, I just start asking them
more questions. Oh, that's great. Everybody wants to be interrogated the moment they meet you.
Not the answer that they should focus. It's not what you should focus on. I

(32:34):
think that what most people need to do is they need to be
interested first. But they, if they haven't done the homework
beforehand, then they're making it much harder on themselves. When they walk
into the networking room, I honestly, when I walk into a room, I. I always
recognize a face. I literally will walk in and the first thing
that I do is I slow walk to the bar. If I don't see someone,

(32:55):
I meet someone I know, I then start to slow walk to the restroom. And
then if that and this happens maybe 5% of the time,
I haven't seen someone. I will imagine that I've left something in
my car and I'll go back outside quickly. Now I don't
get in the car and I drive away. I got to remember myself to turn
around and go back. But then when I'll slow walk back in, I

(33:17):
will run into someone. Now, when I'm doing that, I'm not I'm
casually looking to the left, I'm casually looking to the right. But usually I don't
have to do any of that. I walk in, and because of the dialogues I've
had before, I'm always straight into a conversation with
somebody I've met. But if I do meet someone that I don't know,
I do ask them what they do, because everybody likes to talk about that. And

(33:38):
then I start thinking about people in my network that might be helpful to them.
So instead of asking questions and listening to the
answers to ask more questions, I'm actually listening to think about who
in my network would be really helpful for them to meet. And it might be
a podcaster that I know that they would really do well
on that person's podcast, or it might be someone I know who's part of an

(34:00):
association. And the rule of thumb that I have is if I think
about three introductions that the person. If I've randomly met someone
that might be valuable, I'll offer the first one and then I'll keep talking
and then I'll offer the second one. And by the time
I'm thinking about, I want to hold back the third. And the reason
why I hold it back is if they don't offer an introduction or a suggestion,

(34:22):
at that point, I may not offer the third. But if they offer the third.
Sorry, if they offer an introduction, I will then offer the third. And then the
moment I leave, I will send two of those introductions, but not the third.
And then I'll wait a week or two and send the third one. And what
I'm trying to do is I'm prompting them that sometimes they forget.
And I want to make sure that they send the introduction. And I don't want

(34:42):
to say, hey, dude, you promised me an introduction. So the third, a couple of
weeks later, gets them to go, oh, my gosh, I'm so sorry, I got two
introductions from you before. I didn't do it, let me do it now. And it
makes sure that I get that, that meaningful introduction that
would be really helpful to me. So I find that by thinking about
who would be valuable to them, by listening to them, it

(35:02):
allows me to really be an asset to them from day
one. David, what are your thoughts?
Yeah, I think building on what Kelly was sharing
earlier, I was thinking about how it's so easy to be distracted
and so made me start thinking about my meditation practice. And I've talked about

(35:23):
networking as a form of kind of conversational meditation.
Right. It's hard enough to be alone with our own thoughts without getting lost
in thoughts and getting distracted, but to talk to someone else and to be
actively listening to them without getting lost in thought, also pretty
hard. So I kind of look at it like meditation in the same way. When
I notice my thoughts are drifting, just gently bring myself back

(35:45):
to the person, bring my attention back and just practice. Right.
It's being present is a practice. And I agree
that presence is what's really important for me.
I don't want to come with too much of like a plan or an
agenda or a framework for how I want to network with someone
or else I'm going to come across really just in my experience,

(36:09):
inauthentically, like way too practiced. So what I find
is if I could just really be present, I can
follow the natural energy of a conversation,
figure out what am I genuinely curious about. Not something to get
an opportunity, not something to like the right one liner to make
a connection. But like, what did I hear this person say that I have a

(36:32):
genuine curiosity about, then I can follow that.
And the same thing applies to who I'm talking to.
So I find that like, if I'm going into an event and I'm trying to
talk to everybody and like optimize all of these connections,
I'm going to get exhausted, it's probably not going to work. But what I'll do
is try to have a number of conversations until I meet someone where there's a

(36:54):
very authentic, energetic connection. Like I actually want
to talk to this person. I'm actually curious. Then the conversation
becomes much easier because again, I'm just following the natural
energy of the people around me and the conversation and I let
it flow naturally rather than trying to manufacture something
that isn't naturally occurring for me. That's how I think about it.

(37:17):
I like, can I just say I love that. I might have to
credit you with that. There's no such thing as
manufactured mingling. And I
wish you can have that one. You can have manufactured. I know I'm going to
quote you because we, that's a skill of networkers, we always
attribute and acknowledge. But the other thing, what you said about

(37:38):
agenda. Everyone that you've ever met that has an
agenda, it's as if it's written on their forehead. Their
behavior supports that they have an agenda. So I'm 100% with
you. Adjust who you are for the
audience. You don't talk to a 4 year old the way you talk to a
40 year old. But being more organic,

(37:59):
I think has attributes. Wanted
to just. If I can, Andy. You know, when we're starting this off
talking about listening and active listening, I think if anybody would be
sort of the expert on this panel on that, it's got to be David with
community building. Because if you're not listening to
the community. Right. I think of

(38:22):
Tina Roth Eisenberg, the founder of Creative Mornings, who I interviewed in my
book Build Your dream network. You know, as she said, you know, the
most important layer of building that successful
global network, that community,
was listening to the bottom layer, who are the volunteers
and protecting and guarding who

(38:44):
they are. Before she took sponsorship, before she went
as a business model. Because without listening to
them, you know, the whole, the whole thing crumbled. But you know,
David, I, you know, see you nodding there. So, you know, maybe I've hit the
right tone. But without, without listening, there is no community.
Yeah. I'm also a member of the Tina Roth Eisenberg fan club.

(39:07):
So, yeah, she's amazing. Well, I
love the idea that when you have a community, you can build
trust at scale. One quick question for David.
When you run a community, do you ever struggle with
the feeling that everybody knows you by name but
you don't know everybody?

(39:31):
That's a little bit of a struggle, right? Sometimes. Yeah. So, yeah, we're
talking about like the parasocial relationship that's very common
in this Internet age. Right. It happens for community builders where you're
kind of the facilitator. Happens for content creators, anyone on a
stage, anytime, where there's people who are consuming a lot from you and
really feel like they get to know you really well, but you don't have that

(39:53):
same reciprocal familiarity with them.
And it's hard. Right. I try to just be honest.
One little thing that I do is just say, nice to see you,
instead of nice to meet you, just in case we've met before.
And yeah, I just try to be honest. If they're like, oh,

(40:15):
we've met before, I might just say like, I'm sorry, I don't remember. But
I'd love to get to know more about you now and just use it as
an opportunity to open up the conversation.
So honesty, honesty is often the best policy.
Let's go on to segment three. Mentorship and
sponsorship serve different purposes in career development. A

(40:36):
mentor provides guidance, shares insights and helps navigate
challenges. A sponsor, however, actively advocates for
career advancement, using their influence to create opportunities.
Both relationships require trust, mutual respect and clear
expectations. Finding a mentor starts with identifying career
goals and researching professionals with relevant experience.

(40:58):
Approaching a potential mentor should be intentional. Clear
communication about goals and respect for their time are essential.
A strong mentorship is built through preparation. Active
engagement and follow through. Sponsorship is different.
Sponsors look for high potential individuals who demonstrate
readiness for more responsibility. Visibility,

(41:20):
reliability and strong performance increase the chances
of attracting a sponsor support. Whether sponsors seeking
mentorship or sponsorship, the key is to provide value,
maintain professionalism and foster meaningful connections
that contribute to long term career growth.

(41:45):
Kelly, I read that you liked mentoring junior colleagues back when
you were practicing law. How can we seek out mentors
and build mutually mutually
valuable relationships? I had a
phenomenal mentor early in my career and as he used to say, he liked
to train his assassins. It made, it made his,

(42:08):
it made his be his business. Like, and you think about when you have a
business unit which a practice in a, in a law firm is, you have that
business unit, how do you create that loyalty? How
do you create that commitment when people have other opportunities? So he
was an extreme, extraordinary mentor. So I think
for me it was, it was based on that personal experience

(42:31):
and how that was so transformative for my own career.
In this day and age when, you know, people feel
so time poor, you know,
like the slightest demand, you know, because
I don't know how many of others on this panel someone has said to them,
oh, could you mentor me on? And as soon as you see the word, you're

(42:52):
like, no, I don't have the time
for that. But when people approach you with a specific
question, you know, Susan, I read in,
you know, your book how to, you know, How to Work a Room that
you said this, what would you do in this context? You know, David, you
built this community, you know, like Matthew, I'm an

(43:14):
intro, you know, I'm an extrovert and my team's all introverts. How could I manage
them better? What would be more appropriate? All of a sudden you can answer that
question. So I think in this era of
demands, and some of it is, you know, perceived
time lack, the idea of
like considering mentoring more of where is

(43:36):
something I'm, I have a challenge with and somebody
else can help me get through that challenge. How could they
answer this question and Then I think the things we've talked
about earlier and that's come up earlier about networking, where are you following up?
Where are you being generous and sharing information? All those other
things that we could do as being a decent human being and

(43:59):
a gracious and generous networker can further
and build maybe a one time Q
and A exchange into a longer term
relationship where someone is committed to your, you know,
your future potential and your long term career growth. But for,
for network. So for the networking, to get a mentor. Right now I'd

(44:21):
think about it in the, in the context of what is it that
challenge I'm facing? What is the question that I have? Where is something
like I'm really noodling with? And why is this the best
person to ask that question to?
David, what role does visibility play in
attracting sponsorship?

(44:45):
Not sure what you mean. You mean like me being visible to attract people who
want to support me? Yeah. I'm curious, how can
you. I mean you talked about authenticity approaching
networking in an authentic way. And I'm wondering
how can people increase their visibility in authentic
ways?

(45:07):
I like to. So I'm a little different than I think a lot of people
and how they build their personal brand. I think there is the approach
of like you have your niche, you have your professional brand and you
just like really stick to that. I
tend to bring a whole lot of myself into everything I put out there in
the world. I share really vulnerable things, I

(45:29):
share really tough experiences in my life. I
talk about being a dad, I talk about hiking. So I as
a human contain multitudes. Right. Way beyond my professional
identity. And I like to really bring all of that
into how I show up online, even in conversations I have with
someone at an event. It's almost like if you go right at the

(45:51):
business thing, it doesn't work. But if we kind of meander and I
bring my whole self to the conversation, there's a
greater likelihood that will strike
serendipity. Right. Something will come up that's like, oh, we have a
spark, we have a connection. And that can lead to much better
business outcomes than if you just went right in and tried to get a business

(46:12):
outcome or a sponsorship or a mentorship or something like that.
Susan, this sounds aligned with your writings.
It is. I just said bring who you are to what you do. Okay,
example, last week my 34 year old
microwave died and I didn't know how I was going to
eat. So I went online and looked for a replacement because it had to be

(46:35):
18 inch countertop. And I finally found
one, because I went to five stores and I found
a woman who really knew her stuff at, believe it or not, Best Buy.
And she got me my accent colors are red.
She took one look at me and she did this. You can have
a red microwave. You are sassy. So I had my

(46:57):
neighbor, who had to teach me how to use it because he's an IT guy,
take a video, and I posted it all over social media
with me showing my that I could finally eat again because I have a red
microwave that was bringing everyone into my
kitchen. And I even said that my oven had been untouched
for five years. Bring who you are to what you do.

(47:20):
I don't have kids, but everyone knows that I have. I'm
Grandma Susan to several families. Two of the guys played
football at Stanford and one at the 49ers. So everyone was nice to me.
And do you just see what I did? By way of
preposition, we can bring something into the conversation.
So some person who didn't have kids said, oh, I didn't have kids either,

(47:44):
but I'm Aunty so and so. You know, bring
who you are to what you do. And David, I totally agree with you. So
many of the people who have intentions, you should know why you're
in the room, why'd you get dressed and for me put on makeup
to go somewhere. But the other thing is so much happens organically,
serendipitously meant to be, that

(48:07):
we need to embrace that opportunity. And I'm going to take
the line from Hamilton. We need to always
be where I want to be, in the room where it happens. And
what we just don't know is what's going to happen.
I love putting that information out there and then
continuously connecting the dots, seeing where people

(48:29):
can connect, who you can connect,
and how these different things
can be put together. Can I just add one thing, David? Please do.
When I wrote Secrets of Savvy Networking, I had a chapter called
Mentor Mania. And it started because a gentleman that I was in a
workshop with who went to the Ford leadership said to me,

(48:52):
someone came up to him and said, like, Valentine's Day, will you be my
mentor? He said, boy, did I say no.
Mentorship evolves. Some companies have formal,
but sometimes it's based on commonality because you like the
same team, because you go to the same church or synagogue, because
you both like, I'm from Chicago, deep dish pizza.

(49:15):
Sometimes it starts with a little thing that connects you and it turns into
mentorship. And I remember the woman who wrote the sponsorship book,
a lot of us Went, yeah, that's mentorship. You just figured out a new title,
a new way. Mentors also do some of those same things that I heard
described as sponsors. But what we all need to know is that
like you did, you did this where you said your

(49:38):
lawyer mentor gave you so much.
We need to turn around and do that for others. We all think there's
one person, and I talked about having M.O.M.S. - mentors of moments. My
teacher mentor wasn't the same as my speaker mentor
wasn't the same as my author mentor have
M.O.M.S. And that's my last plug.

(50:01):
Andy. And if I may, like, I always think of the, like, when we talk
about sponsorship, where am I
going to, in a public way,
expend valuable resources that are going
to reflect on me for the benefit of somebody else?
And I think that's where sponsorship is sort of like this higher stakes,

(50:25):
right? Like, I may expand, you know, like
I'm vouching for this person. You need to give them a promotion or you
need take this meeting. This person is going to deliver. And all
of a sudden there's a massive reflection on me. And
so that's where sort of sometimes I think with formal
sponsor programs, I'm like, yeah, yeah, I kind of see this. You need

(50:47):
someone to help you navigate through. But when I think of
sponsorship, I think of it as someone noticing
the work somebody else is doing, the product they're producing,
the results they're having, the community they're building, whatever it is. And I'm
like, you know what? I am going to either
enhance or diminish my social capital, my reputation,

(51:10):
by kicking the door open for them or bringing them into a room
that they're not already in. Because I believe in what they're
doing. And by the way, it's going to help them. And guess what? They'll help
me too. Matthew, that balance of providing
value, sharing value, is that the key
to remaining top of mind with mentors or sponsors without

(51:32):
coming across as pushy? You know, it's an interesting
question. I, I think that I'm going to answer this by throwing myself
under the bus a little bit. I'm not sure if, do Americans have that saying,
throw, throw yourself under the bus? I know it's an issue. Okay, good. Thank you.
Now I just, I feel like I'm the only one that says it. I, I,
I think for me going back, I know that

(51:55):
Susan kind of mentioned Patricia Fripp, one of
my, I call them Champions, by the way. I believe, like, if you swap, if
you trade in the word sponsor for the word Champion and
Momentum Partner. I'll explain the difference in a second. But I met
one of my Champions who's championed my work a ton over
the, over the years at an event where, look, I did

(52:17):
everything wrong. And I think it's okay to recognize that you did
things wrong. And I think going back to David's point, being open
and honest about that is actually really powerful. So for me,
I remember this was one of, this was my first big keynote out
of state and I got asked to speak at the Sales 2.0 conference.
And so I flew to Philadelphia and I did this keynote. And back then I

(52:39):
was just starting and now I can do about a half a day before I'm
exhausted. Back then I could do about 45 minutes. So I
did my 45 minute presentation and I remember sitting down
and after that event I, I saw
the person walk up on stage right after me and I mentioned to the person
sitting next to me, oh, that's the person that

(53:01):
was. I always look for three people to talk to, which is one of the
lessons you learn as a speaker. And that person was giving me so much
energy and it was like he wanted me to win on stage.
And so I made that comment and then I retracted into my
phone because I was exhausted and I had to shut down. And
I realized that I did it about 35 minutes in, but

(53:25):
there's nothing I could do at that point. Anyway, the next day I got
asked to stay back and there was a training getting done on Mindset that the
founder of the event was running and he asked me to give feedback
and he asked a couple other people as well. So we didn't know who were
giving feedback and who were students. It was obvious some of the speakers were there,
but this one person kept giving feedback and I kept giving feedback. So I walked

(53:45):
up to him halfway through the event and I said, look, I, I need to
introduce myself because I felt like I ignored your whole
presentation and truthfully, I didn't want to. And you gave me so much
energy and I'm really sorry about that. I'm just very introverted
and 45 minutes is about all I've got until I need to retreat.
And I didn't want to leave the room, but I needed to retreat for about

(54:07):
45 minutes and unfortunately that was your entire event. Anyway, we got
talking for ages and then he handed me his card. Turns out it's
Jim Cathcart, the only two time president of the National Speakers Association. And I'm like,
oh my gosh, I get on the plan plane before I look at his card
because we were talking and conversing and he had to leave. Anyway, I look at
his card and I sent him a message that said nothing more than I am

(54:28):
so sorry. I didn't realize I was speaking to speaker royalty. Anyway,
again I please accept my apologies. It was wonderful to get to, to know you
a little bit better. Anyway, he sends me and I mentioned that I was, I
was sorry that I missed his speech. He sent me the four hour version of
his speech. So I stopped that day and I watched the full four hours
and I gave him positive feedback, of course, because he's exceptional. But

(54:50):
also I mentioned a couple of introductions and other new science
that had came that had recently come out that actually proved some of the things
he was saying that I thought might be helpful. Anyway, after that we organized the
call and we've been best of friends ever since. So you don't have to get,
I mean, your version of Sponsorship, what I call a Champion. You don't have to
get it right straight away, but the truth is, if Jim asked me to go

(55:12):
and pick up his dry cleaning, I'd fly to California and do that for him.
So actually he's living in Austin now. But the fact is that he would
never ask me to do that. Fostered a real friendship, like Ivan Misner. He's endorsed
both of my books. I've been on his podcast multiple times. But he
would do that because he believes in me and therefore he's willing to champion my
work. And that's why I call it Championship relationships. But I do want

(55:33):
to highlight that the reason I break it into two is because I believe that
since the digital ages started especially that you don't need
to rely on one type of person. Because when you think about
Sponsor, you think somebody higher than you that can endorse you. And that's why I
call it a Champion, because I feel like they should be championing you, not just
sponsoring you. I feel like that word is stronger. But the concept of

(55:55):
Momentum Partnerships is what I really like, which is
if you've got people that are around the same level as you, you have different
doors open that they don't. And if you believe in what they do and they
believe in what you do, then why would you not support each other and
become Momentum Partners and help each other with their careers? You might have an
association connection, they might have a different group that they can open the door

(56:17):
to, or they might get you on a podcast. They might be able to introduce
you to somebody that can become one of your future champions. I
know one of my Momentum Partners was the one that introduced me to Ivan Misner,
who I'm forever grateful for. But the reason I'm saying this is
that for me, I believe in my book, I talk about one person
that came as a prospect, and truthfully, I turned her into a momentum

(56:38):
partnership. And since then, I can attribute over a million dollars
worth of revenue from podcast stores that she's opened up for me, and
I know that I've done at least the same for her. So. And I'm
proud of that. I feel like the best Momentum Partnerships can be far more important
than some of your Champions, but the Champions are the ones that give you the
credibility to be able to get a pay rise, to get that top job. The

(57:00):
Momentum Partners, I feel, are the ones that open the doors for you that you
just can't open for yourself because you genuinely want to do the same for them,
because you believe in what they do and you want to see them succeed. So
I just want people to know that they don't all. Each person doesn't need to
do everything for you. And if you do, you. If you do your homework and
you do your research or you come across as. As wanting to help and

(57:21):
assist them. To Kelly's point around,
make sure that don't say, oh, can you give me some
mentorship on sales or networking? But say, hey, I read your book and by
the way, I introduced. I've already
shared it with 100 people, but I had this one question. Or
make a couple of LinkedIn posts about how wonderful the book is and then reach

(57:44):
out and say, hey, I was hoping to get this question answered so
you can give value to your Sponsor or Champion
or Momentum Partner to use. To use those words. But I just
feel that these days there's so much value you can give someone that you want
to get their attention, that they should reach out to you almost,
which I've seen happen time and time again. People get my attention all the time,

(58:05):
and I'm forever reaching out to be grateful and then find out they've got a
question, which, of course, I'd be honored to help. Interesting to hear the
difference in vocabulary words and what they kind of
associate in our minds. Because
as, as Kelly said, like, the word Mentorship
intimidates me. I feel like, oh, my gosh, that's going to take a lot of

(58:27):
time. But Champion, it's like, if I
like somebody, I'll be a Champion.
Like, I don't even think about it. But the idea of Mentorship, I'm like
oh my gosh, I have to. Do I have the time to invest in that?
I don't think I do. So it's really interesting. And a shout out to Ivan,
who would have been here except that he's traveling. And then he

(58:50):
put forth two of his co-authors from BNI and
unfortunately they had conflicts too. So
shout out to Ivan. Let's go to segment four.
Networking is most effective when built on trust, authenticity and
long term connections. A genuine approach. Prioritizing
meaningful conversations over short term gains. Asking

(59:12):
insightful questions, actively listening and offering value
without expecting immediate returns Strengthens
relationships. Diversity in a network expands
perspectives and opportunities. Engaging with individuals from
different backgrounds helps avoid echo chambers and fosters
innovation. Attending inclusive networking events and joining

(59:34):
professional groups that promote varied representation Create
stronger professional circles. Ethical networking requires
respecting privacy, maintaining boundaries and avoiding
transactional behaviors over networking. Excessive
name dropping and self serving interactions erode trust.
Instead focus on consistency, reliability and

(59:57):
mutual support. Social media offers broad networking
potential but requires mindful engagement. Sharing
insights, acknowledging others contributions and maintaining
professionalism ensure credibility. Ethical networking
builds a reputation based on integrity leading to lasting and
beneficial professional relationships.

(01:00:22):
Matthew, I'm going to start with you since you may have to drop
off. In your experience, what's
the ethical way to ask for help or introductions
when you don't yet have that deep relationship? It sounds like you're
masterful at making that transition. I
mean I feel like the number one rule of networking is it's not about you.

(01:00:45):
So I mean for me, and I didn't mention, I didn't frame the last part
of my networking script, but I say so one of the things I love to
see, I hate to see this, do you know anyone like that? And then I
say, well I'm on a mission to help introverts realize they're not second
class citizens. Their path to success is just different. And
I might go into a story or I might say, well I'm on a mission

(01:01:05):
to help these people realize they're not, you know, they really can have a rapid
growth business doing what they love, just not by getting better at their functional skill
but instead focusing on these three, you know, three simple things. And
what I find is when I talk about the mission that I'm on,
people don't want to support somebody that is, well my day
job's this, which is what most people do when they're doing aimless networking

(01:01:27):
or the elevator pitch, which is so I, I, I centric.
So notice the difference in what I What I say, one of the things I
love to see is this. What I hate to see is this. And I'm on
a mission to do this. It's got nothing to do with me. It's about the
change I want to see in the world or the people that I want to
help or the organization organizational change that I want to see.
It's less eye centric, it's more heart centric. And what I've found

(01:01:50):
is the moment that I say that, yes, it's contrived, but it's
after I've been interested. And on top of that,
they're asking because I said I'm the rapid growth guy
that confuses people. So people lean in and they ask, what is that?
Then I explain, do you know anyone like that? Then I say yes, and I
go into a mission and then I tell a story. It's the science behind

(01:02:11):
storytelling, the science behind what's called a hook statement. And hitting
people with passion and mission, which no one witnesses in a networking room,
gets people to want to help you especially. And if you think about this,
if you were interested and you follow the advice that I just provided
of actually offering them introductions, not
because you're doing it, because, I mean, I always tell people they should catalog their

(01:02:34):
audience. I'm always blown away to find out who's got who's
what, podcast host or head of an association or senior
executive in the family that would be helpful to so many people.
I always genuinely think, how can I provide introductions
that will serve people? And then when I start talking about the passion and
the mission that I have, people go out of their way to help me because

(01:02:57):
they love helping someone on a mission. They don't want to introduce someone that just
needs another job or that's looking for a prospect. As a matter of fact, I
do this all the time. I speak at events and I say, so who here
knows what, why we go networking and the first, there's always someone that puts
up their hand. Oh, it's to get clients. No, it's not. It's to make genuine
connections. It's to build Momentum Partnerships, it's to build Champions.

(01:03:18):
Yes, prospects might keep the lights on, just like getting another job will
keep the lights on. But developing real and lasting
momentum, partnerships and champion relationships, that's what keeps.
Keeps getting you paid more and allows you to choose
your job and continually do jobs that you love, as opposed to
settling for jobs that you're offered or, you know, gigs that you're offered, depending on

(01:03:40):
whether you're a business owner or whether you're a career professional. So for
me, I believe that if we're consistent with networking, we're never
running into a networking room to get a new job or to get a client.
We're actually building lasting relationships with people we can add value
to, which fixes the ethical problem. I'm not reaching out because
it's about me. I'm. I'm not making it about me. I'm

(01:04:02):
genuinely on a mission to help people, and I genuinely want to help other people.
And when I reach out to people, even on LinkedIn, I'm forever
reaching out because I'm a fan of their work and I want to just share
the fact that I really liked this specific thing they said in their book. You
know, Marshall Goldsmith has endorsed my books. And it was, you know, I've never met
him. I mean, I'm on his global guru's list of top 30 sales professionals,

(01:04:24):
which he puts out all the time. But I've never met the guy. And
yet he's endorsed my work. And he supported me because I
reached out to him on LinkedIn and humbly told him that I thought his work
was great and things that I liked about it, and then asked him to endorse
my book. And he. He checked out the manuscript, and he did.
Now, I think that a lot of people, they

(01:04:45):
go in to any conversation, and
I'm pretty sure it was Susan that said this, that they've got,
I mean it for myself, written all over. Over their forehead. And
I think that, that, that's obvious. I think what people have witnessed on,
well, at least I hope people have during this session is every single
person has referenced the other. Susan went as far as saying, no, David, I'm going

(01:05:07):
to, I'm going to quote you on that because that's what people that are good
networkers do. I feel that people that are open and
honest come across as safer people to network because people that are open
and honest tend to be more authentic because they're
humble people that are willing to offer introductions
that are actually helpful and genuinely share that they care about

(01:05:29):
helping someone else, rather than, I do this for this group of people, which basically
says, this is what I do for money, or, hey, I'd love to get you
as a client because I'm dying to buy a new car. And if I got
you as a client, it would really help with that. That stuff isn't
authentic. It's not ethical. It's. It's strategic, it's
transactional, It's. It's gross. And that's why, you know, I
feel that even a lot of small talk isn't comfortable for me.

(01:05:52):
And so that's why my method doesn't even include small talk. It acts.
It's really focused on being authentic and really being
strategic about how you show up so that you can
portray the best version of yourself every time. And if you do that with a
genuine care to help help, you'll be blown away at how much people will help.
If you go in with a transactional mindset, you'll be blown away at how many

(01:06:14):
people come across as takers to you. And actually it's because you're the
taker. Love the framing and the tactics.
Who is someone who's about to speak? I
heard someone breathe. No. God, I hope that was all of
us. Well said, matriarch.

(01:06:36):
Did you tell them why you called me matriarch? You told me that
these days you go by a matriarch mingling maven. Yes,
matriarch of mingling. And it's so funny because as I listen to
Matthew, you mentioned people who I've known
for years, but I would share a
great Ivan Misner story that he is in one of his books that's

(01:06:58):
about gender based differences in networking. He said he
goes to the cleaners, he brings his clothes,
they clean them, he picks them up, he gives them money, he walks out
after I told him the story of how my cleaners did this and that,
whatever. And he says, that's the difference. You have a relationship
and I'm just getting my cleaning. And it

(01:07:22):
was so hit that home because I said to
him, I was one of the few customers invited to her husband's memorial because
we have a relationship. But it went back to, I couldn't even imagine
going into the cleaning store or the bakery and
just transacting for money. I expect when they say, how are
you? They want an answer. And I expect when I say to

(01:07:45):
them, how are you doing that? They will tell me. And here's
the key. It's everything you said. And you said, Kelly,
we have to listen when people talk. A
person for research that my darling speech coach, Dawn
Bernhardt mentioned. Ralph Nichols did the research on listening.
90% of memory is that you listen to people.

(01:08:09):
And when you focus on people when they're talking, your memory will
be stronger for that. And then you can always
hold things against them because you remember it naturally without having to look at a
phone. You could tell I'm from Chicago. Anyway,
what is this? Because it came up with
something Susan said and Matthew said and I Think of all of

(01:08:31):
David's comments in terms of authenticity. And it was a
panel discussion that I was in the audience for. And
one of the women, she was general counsel for a
pharmaceutical company and she had
probably a career transition, maybe a career re entry
panel. And she talked about going back into

(01:08:53):
the practice of law and a pivotal moment that turned her
from, you know, hey, I've, you know, kind of just gone back to
work and I'm going to plot away at a, you know, boutique law firm, you
know, doing litigation, to a
transformative conversation. It was because of this,
you know, I would say, genuine interest, authenticity

(01:09:15):
on both sides of the conversation and
the, the paying attention to body language and all of these things. And when
she was like a Saturday morning, she's pruning roses. Her
neighbor comes out and he says, hey, how are you
here you started, you know, a new job. Congratulations. She's like,
thank you. And he's like, well, how's the job going? And there was

(01:09:39):
something about the, you know what, it's going really
well that caused him to say, like,
tell me more. What's so great? You know, here
you've raised your kids and gone back to practice law and you're kind of look
happy about it. Like, maybe that was the inquiry. But the
conversation continued where both of them could have just left

(01:10:00):
it. I think when we're saying, we were saying like not liking small
talk, we could both leave it at this, hey, how are you? Oh, good job.
You know, you could just do that pitch, ping pong. Instead, they both
leaned into the conversation and this guy says to
her, you know what? It sounds like
you really like these people and I

(01:10:24):
know what it takes, like the understanding what somebody else
needs to be successful. You know, like Matthew's pointed out, do they need an
introduction? Right? Like, what does someone need to be successful? How can
I be that Momentum Partner? He said, said,
I don't think it's going to lead anywhere, but let me send you a little
piece of work because I know that you've just started at this firm and they're

(01:10:45):
a small firm and if you can show that you can bring in business, this
will be good. And this is like the kicker, the funny part of the film,
the, the, the story that could be a film, it probably was
he, the little piece of work that he sent that
he didn't think was going to go anywhere was the silicon breast
implants litigation, which for a period of time was

(01:11:06):
the largest class action in US history. And
it all started over a picket fence on a
Saturday morning because two people decided to care
about each other and they decided to take, you know,
idle ping pong, small talk, banter, how are you? How are
the kids? And they actually decided to listen to

(01:11:28):
each other and someone decided to answer the question
honestly, just as Susan shows with her dry cleaner. Like, I'm
genuinely interested in how you're doing. And I
think that's part of the magic of these. When you
decide and choose to have an authentic introduction, you
just, you don't know what's going to lead. It might just be a nice conversation.

(01:11:51):
And the dry cleaner's day is better. Right. It might be that
you get the biggest piece of work in your life or you find out something
marvelous happened to someone else. And doesn't that make for a great day?
I love the idea that,
that like not having an agenda.
And I think, I think you're right about it, Kelly. It's,

(01:12:13):
it's. You're just trying to be a better human being and you don't know where
it's going to go. Sometimes you just make somebody
better. Is that what makes working hard? You have to deal with
human beings and we are squirrely and weird.
Like, what we want one day is not what we want the other day.
And we're moody, too. Sometimes we're having a bad day, sometimes we're having a good

(01:12:36):
day. So the interaction can be different depending on what
day it is. David, I want to ask you, since you
talk about building community as a vehicle
of belonging, and I think that that's kind of a common thread that's
been going on through here. Right. We're trying to build connections
with people. We're trying to cultivate this sense of

(01:12:59):
belonging. That's how we end up appreciating one
another and being willing to be a champion for
somebody. How do you create that inclusive network?
Yeah, yeah. So I want to kind of build on the conversation that we're
all just having around, and I think this ties in

(01:13:19):
with whether or not you should have an agenda. And
I think that if you do have an
agenda, you shouldn't pretend like you don't.
Right. Because you might take this advice and be like, oh, I need to
just conceal the agenda and act like I'm interested in their
legal job that they're doing. Right. I

(01:13:40):
think the approach that I try to take
that's worked for me is to just be honest and to
ask for permission, to ask for consent.
And so here's a really random example. Recently
I've started to call on this. I became a coach recently.

(01:14:02):
Right. So it's a whole new career path for me. I'm learning a lot very
quickly. And there's this very experienced coach that I've known for many
years that I reached out and I asked for advice when I was really
struggling. And I noticed because I'm a people pleaser,
I get so concerned about asking too much of their time or asking
too much of somebody. And so I was, like, worried about

(01:14:24):
asking this person for help. I did have an agenda. I wanted his help, I
wanted his advice, I wanted his wisdom. And up to that point, he was
more than happy to give it to me. He seemed really engaged. But
I didn't want to ask for too much. So instead of assuming, I just
asked, how can I ask for your help in a way that honors
your time? And at first, he was just, like, blown away that I

(01:14:47):
asked that, because usually people just ask for your time and
don't take into account whether or not that's how you want to help. But when
you ask somebody like, hey, I really want your help, I want your wisdom, but
I want to do so in a way that's respectful of you. They might
tell you, like, great, like, I can do one call a month, or
I'd rather not do calls, but I'm happy to help over email or text.

(01:15:10):
Or maybe they're like, I would love to be your formal mentor. Maybe that's something
they're looking for. So I think, like, just being
upfront and being honest about whether or not you have an agenda, but doing
it in a way that gives the other person the autonomy is a really
ethical way of asking for help.
I love how you turned your fear into. You turned it around with

(01:15:32):
openness. I mean, if there's one thing I've learned, I just
name my own insecurities, and that tends to take away this thing.
And it's charming, David. It's charming. Thank you
for that reflection, Susan. I
want to one point on the community side, because you asked about building
ethical belonging and community. So there's like, two questions

(01:15:54):
that I like to ask when looking at a community. First is, who isn't here
that should be here? Oh, right. So we. We organize
communities, and it might be around, like, a profession. Like,
oh, we're going to get lawyers together. Okay, well, if all the. If we're trying
to get lawyers together and I look at the makeup of this room or this
community, who isn't here that should be here? And is anybody

(01:16:16):
not here that isn't based on the
requirements of the community? So it could be race, gender, age.
Are there any things that are blocking people from coming into this
community when really they should be here? And then you could break down
those barriers to make sure that those people are welcome. So that's
the first question. Who isn't here that should be here. Then the second

(01:16:39):
question, which is a little spicier, is who is here
that shouldn't be here? Right. Because
when you're building community, it's really important that
you're intentional about who's in the room? And
I like to take an empathetic exclusion approach.
Right. You need to exclude to some extent, but you want to do so

(01:17:01):
empathetically and intentionally, not based on
some sort of implicit bias, but you might say, like, this is a
community for lawyers who have at least 20 years of
experience. Right? Because we really want to have a type of conversation
that only people have been in this industry for a long time can have.
And so if someone's there who's brand new, maybe that isn't the person

(01:17:24):
that should be in that community. And by doing that, by
empathetically excluding some people, what you allow to happen is a much
more inclusive conversation for others, because now it's designed
intentionally for them. So who isn't in the room that should be?
And then who is in the room that shouldn't be? Does anybody raise their hand
to answer that second question?

(01:17:46):
You're not asking that to others. It's more of a reflective question. As you're observing
the community. Yeah, you're observing the dynamics of the community. Like, you might
notice someone in the community. It's like their energy is way off or
they're taking up way too much space, or the reason that they're
in the room is the wrong reason. And so you, as a community
facilitator, part of your job is to curate that space to make sure the right

(01:18:08):
people are in the room. Love the thought process, Kelly. Well, I was
going to say some of the words we've used that people have
said, oh, I don't like these words. But when I think about
strategy with respect to networking and what David has just said
is there was times I like to fire myself from
certain communities and certain networks because I'm like, like, here

(01:18:30):
is why you asked me to be part of this. This is what I could
contribute and that time is over. Or
here is what is going to happen to my time. Here
is what you've been asking me to do, to devote, and guess what? I
can't do that anymore. Do you still want me to be part of this. So,
you know, well, people themselves may not be at. Not. May

(01:18:53):
not be like someone, like a third party to ask them to leave. I like
to fire myself routinely, you know, from these situations when I
don't feel that I can contribute and be part of the community or
the network in the way that the network or the community deserves.
You know, I'm. Today I'm hosting,
I call it the gracious exit of a group that I

(01:19:16):
created five years ago during the pandemic of
speakers. To be honest, it's the
group that went to the Jewish service. And for five years we have been
really banded together. But it is now time.
And it goes back to what you said in community.
It was really. I took the signal from Patricia Fripp, who was the

(01:19:38):
president of our Golden Gate Breakfast Club. We brought in speakers from all
over. It was great. But she noticed that the group had been together,
like, since 1946. People weren't stepping up
to run. And they had a phenomenal. I happened to be in Venice. I
couldn't be there, but they had a phenomenal finale. And
so today at 4 o' clock, I did

(01:20:01):
do a little bit of surveying, but also being the community
leader, that started something that realizes, like firing
myself and going out on a
wonderful note. I didn't even think of myself
as a community leader, David, till I heard what you said and what Kelly said.
And I went, oh, my God. It's also knowing. It's like

(01:20:23):
when. When a sports figure or a CEO
exits when things are good. Because what you
don't want is to exit when they're on the
downside or you're less effective or you're too
whatever. So you both have given me a real
nice shot in the arms. Oh, my God. Shot me arm.

(01:20:45):
But a good shot. Thank you. And I don't think this.
I don't think a lot of us realize that we can create
our own communities. I was just with a friend
yesterday who's also on LinkedIn, and we were saying
she's creating a community in her community. And
all you have to do is say, gee, back in San Francisco, we had

(01:21:08):
women's networks and men's networks, which they called the Chamber of Commerce.
So what I wanted was a mixed group. And what I did is
I invited four people and told them to invite a couple people.
We can build it. And I think it's even equally important
when it's time to fire yourself and. Or fire the group.
But you both take me back. Oh, my gosh, I sound like I'm

(01:21:31):
just that person that's saying back in. The day,
so much good stuff here. At risk of, of
overstepping my boundaries, of keeping
these guests on and the audience
their time, let's wrap it up or let's,
let's bring it home with the last segment and we'll try to. Move Sustaining a

(01:21:55):
strong network requires consistency, strategic engagement
and providing value. Staying top of mind involves sharing
relevant insights, engaging with others content and
maintaining periodic check ins without overwhelming contacts.
A well timed message or a thoughtful share can reinforce
connections without feeling transactional. When requesting

(01:22:15):
introductions or referrals, clarity is essential.
Clearly state the reason for the introduction, provide relevant background
and express appreciation. Following up with both parties
ensures professionalism and strengthens trust collaboration
Collaboration opportunities emerge by identifying shared goals and
aligning values. Successful partnerships require trust,

(01:22:37):
well defined roles and structured agreements. Networking is a
long term process. Maintaining relationships even as careers
evolve creates opportunities for future growth. Thought
leadership, industry engagement and strategic content
sharing amplify influence and position professionals as valuable
contributors in their fields. Adaptability and genuine

(01:23:00):
connections drive long term success.
Kelly, you encourage professionals to audit their network. What does
a healthy long term network actually look like?
Oh, this is one of those answers where you get to say it depends, right?

(01:23:20):
So I mean at any point in time, you know, the network you had when
you were coming out of university, getting your
first job and the network you need when you are
mid career versus doing a career transition. All those
things are slightly different. But I think in terms of just all of us, do
an audit on the health of your network. Do you

(01:23:42):
have enough diversity in there? And by
diversity I mean in the fullest kind of, broadest
use of the term, do you have people who are across industries,
job titles, geographies like you name
it, or you sitting in an echo chamber, you know,
what is it that you're trying to achieve and do and are you getting the

(01:24:05):
right information sources and inputs to help you do that?
To use Matthew's words, you know, those Momentum Partners or to find those
Champions or Sponsors. Like some of this is looking
at your own patterns and behaviors of how you're
showing up on a regular basis to say, you know, am I
doing enough to engage the network I have? And what

(01:24:27):
is this network? So I mean part of this conversation we've been, we've
been very much sort of almost the thing that people most fear
of, which is networking, that you know, that I just say the busy work, you
know, walk into that room with strangers, you know, terror, all that rest of
stuff, rather than saying based on my behaviors and
actions based on the choices I have made with my

(01:24:48):
time, based on whether I have been considerate and
following up and being gracious and being generous and
helping others who are the people who are surrounding me.
And on the basis of this, do I have right?
Is there a great mix of people here that
are going to enable, you know, my ideas or my career to

(01:25:11):
expand in interesting ways? Or have I pigeonholed myself?
I mean, I personally pigeon my whole holed
myself quite fabulously early in my career.
And it was only when I wanted to do something bigger than
continue to double down in that one very
narrow area of the law that I realized like,

(01:25:34):
okay, I got a few people somewhere else.
But to make this at the time, it wasn't that big of a
career move, but it was a big career move. I really needed
to expand in different ways and realizing that I had
left my career, my
professional happiness so

(01:25:56):
vulnerable by only
having strength in one area of my network. This is why I'm really
adamant with people. Your resilience in your
career is not going to become because of his skill set other than your
skill set in building relationships. And if you have a
variety of relationships, you'll be fine

(01:26:18):
regardless of what you know the Dow is doing or anything
else. You will be fine if you have relationships who will back you up.
So networking diversification, just like a
portfolio. Diversification, but a diversity of
relationships. Susan, you were going to say something? I was going to say
1993 Secrets of Savvy Networking. I talked about

(01:26:39):
out if everyone in your network. I just went look through the book.
I went, God, I wrote a good book. But if everyone in your network
looks like you came from where you came from
goes to the same. Well, I was going to say spa
because I live in Marin, but I mean it goes to the same house of
worship. If everyone is of

(01:27:02):
just like you. That would mean I would have to be be only friends with
people from Chicago who talked school, who are under
5ft tall, who like deep dish pizza. That would
be so delimiting. And I was really because I lived in San
Francisco and taught David, you know, in your neighborhood
to me to not have a diverse network,

(01:27:24):
diversity of race,
religion, interests, background and
makes us so poor. The more
we expand and bring in. I mean if I
tell you who I'm Aunty Susan to, it's like, oh my goodness,
it's a mosaic. And that makes me

(01:27:47):
strong and that makes me rich. Has
it enhanced my bank account? Well, I think people don't understand
what the word rich means, and it means different things to
different people. But I'm 100% with both of you.
I just think if we don't have people,
unlike us in our network, what they say is if everyone in your

(01:28:09):
network knows who you know, then
you'll already be limited in who you'll meet.
That's why I like to have people younger than I am. And when I
was young, I used to have people I was that were older than I
am. But I'm going to tell you, nothing keeps you younger, more with
it, more alerted, more wise than a diverse

(01:28:32):
network. And on so many levels,
I just don't understand people that don't have it. But then I'm judgmental.
I think Susan dropped the mic when she's redefining what wealth is.
David community builders often think about sustaining
engagement. So I just want to ask, what is your take on

(01:28:55):
how do you keep relationships alive
over time? Yeah, well, I mean, I
think to build on what Kelly and Susan are saying, diversity really matters
because in the actual research behind how serendipity occurs,
having variety really matters. Right? You want to like increase
the surface area of the interactions you're having with

(01:29:18):
people and that could be the amount of people and it's also the variety of
people. The serendipity research also
shows that sometimes it takes years
or even decades for serendipity to occur, right? You might
meet someone one day and then 10 years
later that connection comes back in a way that you didn't expect at all.

(01:29:40):
This just happened to me. One of the partners and the business Downshift that I'm
running now is someone that we met 10 years ago in an
accelerator program and didn't talk for 10 years
and just happened to come back together now. And so like
the common advice you'd hear in community building is to have this like
this steady cadence of touch points with people, like keep them

(01:30:02):
engaged, keep them showing up. But my experience is that
that's not always how it goes. Some people you're going to stay engaged with
consistently over a long time and other people are going to come in and out
of your life. You may not talk to them at all, but then the universe
just brings you back together in a way that you didn't expect. And
so I think when we look at networking, taking a long

(01:30:24):
term view is actually a pillar of that
practice. It's not like, oh, maybe I should think long term
networking only happens in the long run and it compounds and it
builds using the financial analogies it compounds over
time, right.?And it continues to build and build and build over decades,
not over days. I'm gonna, I'm gonna guess, David,

(01:30:46):
that they are colleague you're working with now. Your initial interactions in 10
years ago when you met, like it was a positive experience.
Yeah, she was actually a mentor. Right. So
this is, you know, other research that people, you know, know, like
we're afraid to reach out to someone we haven't talked to in a long time.
And I always say to them, well, what was your interaction 10 years ago? Because,

(01:31:08):
you know, if you were a self absorbed jerk, you know, good luck reaching out
because that's the first thing they're going to think of when they see your name.
But if there was that positive interaction, even
if there's been that absence of time, the rush,
the research shows that rush of warm feelings because you're
remembering all those memories. And

(01:31:29):
you can pick up that relationship, that you can pick up that connection.
Like it's instantaneous, like time has not passed. So this
is what I sort of think. How do you maintain long term relationships? You know,
like, you make sure those first interactions are, you know, good
ones, like, show up every day. Be that decent human being,
which is clearly hard for a lot of people. Be that

(01:31:51):
decent human being. You know,
it's. I started in the pandemic. I
started and it evolved a bit. My grammar
school girlfriends from Chicago, we meet once a
month on Zoom. Love it.
You know, they had kids, I had this

(01:32:14):
career. But now we've come together
and you know what we had in common? We knew each other's
parents, we knew each other's brothers.
One of my friends called me and she said she was getting married.
She said, "Could you believe my sister Bonnie did that?" And who else could say
to her, really, she hasn't changed?

(01:32:37):
You know, it's. I think when we
have a connection that's heartfelt, you can
pick up the phone anytime. And the other thing
I do is sometimes send the email with the headline said
a voice from your past returning.

(01:32:57):
And I got. And I sometimes apologize.
I don't know what I was thinking. I've been out of touch. I have no
excuse. Here's another thing I do. If I
find that Facebook or my photo app sends me a picture from
yesteryear of the two of us when we were younger and
looked really fabulous, I send them the picture

(01:33:19):
and say, what a wonderful memory. It really, you know,
something that just reconnects you. So I think the fact
that she was your mentor 10 years ago and as
Kelly said, a pleasant experience I have a
friend who when she turned 50 went to one of those spiritual
workshops and she came I showing my hand

(01:33:41):
here and she came out and shared with me a lesson that
I have embraced. She said, now that I'm
50, that's when 50 was old. She said,
my goal is that every person who has an
interaction with me feels better because of
it. And that's the bow

(01:34:04):
on this episode. Boom. Nothing else needs to
be said. I cannot express enough gratitude
to our guest panelists. Today we have set a record. This is the
longest Inspired Money episode ever. Wow. And the 90
plus minutes that we spent together went by like
in 30 minutes. That's how it felt. And this was just an

(01:34:27):
action packed five segments on building meaningful connections.
One of my favorite takeaways from today's conversation is this.
Networking isn't about collecting
contacts. It's about nurturing
relationships that create value over time. We heard it
time after time in the stories today.

(01:34:49):
And it doesn't matter whether you're an introvert, whether you're a
seasoned executive or you're just starting out, the panel today
showed that that anyone can learn how to connect with
authenticity, purpose and generosity.
So here's your assignment for the week. Thank you for watching or
listening to the end. I want you to reach out to someone you haven't

(01:35:12):
spoken to in a while. Maybe a former colleague, mentor,
someone you met at a conference. Just check in. No
agenda, just a thoughtful message to say hello and
reconnect. You never know what doors that simple gesture
might open. If you found today's episode valuable,
please be sure to share it with someone in your network. Don't forget

(01:35:34):
to subscribe so that you do not miss our next conversation.
And Inspired Money is created and produced by
me and Bradley Jon Eaglefeather. Bradley is behind the scenes
during the live stream, edited the segments. Chad Lawrence
does our graphics, animation and editing. Before we part ways,
I want to give a big shout out to our amazing guests. If you found

(01:35:57):
value in today's episode, please go follow their work
and keep learning from the best. Susan RoAne is
the best selling author of how to Work a Room. Also Secrets
of what's the title? Savvy
Networking, both timeless classics on networking with
confidence. Learn

(01:36:18):
more at susanroane.com and
check out her podcast appearances. I'm sure that you'll laugh,
learn and leave ready to mingle.
J. Kelly Hoey she wrote Build Your Dream Network.
Smart modern guide for growing real relationships in
this digital world that we live in. You can find her at

(01:36:39):
jkellyhoey.co.
And you can
catch her podcast where she shares brilliant insights for professionals and
entrepreneurs alike. David Spinks is author
of the Business of Belonging and a true pioneer in the community
building movement. You can dive deeper at

(01:37:01):
davidspinks.com and explore his work if you've
if you're growing a brand, leading a team, or building something bigger than
yourself and Matthew Pollard who who dropped
off a little bit early because he had places
to be. He dropped so much value. The
Introverts Edge, he is author. He's a rapid growth

(01:37:24):
strategist and he proves that introverts can thrive in sales and
networking. Find him at
MatthewPollard.com and be sure to check out his Introverse Edge podcast
for more practical tools and inspiration. I will be
going to listen to that Ivan episode. Inspired Money Makers
Follow these leaders, grab their books, apply what you've

(01:37:47):
learned because your next opportunity might just start with the
next conversation. Did anyone want to plug anything before
we part ways, I just want to. Say
what a joy it has been being with you and you
don't. Do I call you J. or Kelly? I'm
the middle child who parents called me by the middle name. So

(01:38:09):
it's like this damn annoying thing. So yes, just call me Kelly.
Okay? My old Twitter handle.
I'm the oldest and my parents didn't have the time to give me a middle
name. So what can I tell you and David,
the the four of us. I can't tell you. You're my
people. That's all I can say. It's been a joy. Just been a

(01:38:30):
joy. Thank you for sharing that sentiment. Thank you
Inspired Money Maker for joining us for the next
couple of weeks. Inspired Money is actually taking off
for a little R & R. We will be back Wednesday, July 2nd
at 1pm Eastern. Our topic "Classic Car Restorations:
Reviving Automotive Legends." It's going to be

(01:38:53):
fun. I will see you then. Until next time, do something that
scares you because that's where the magic happens. Thanks everybody.

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Power of Networking: Building Meaningful Connections for Personal and Professional Growth