June 2, 2025 • 34 mins
Want to share your thoughts about the podcast? Text a Message!
Enjoy this wonderful conversation with Veronica Rosenthal!
Veronica (“Roni”) Rosenthal is a lifelong horsewoman from central Texas.
Roni is a licensed speech language pathologist and a certified therapeutic riding instructor. Roni’s speech therapy career has focused on serving Deaf and Hard of Hearing individuals. She took an off-the-beaten path in her field by becoming fierce advocate for signed languages. She is fluent in American Sign Language and provides horsemanship and riding instruction in ASL.
Roni obtained her CTRI qualification from PATH international in 2019 and launched her equine business, Dark Horse Therapeutics, in 2020. She currently runs a ‘micro’ equine-assisted therapy program in West Chester, Pennsylvania.
In addition to teaching, Roni studies equine bodywork modalities and carries a small caseload of equine clients. Roni has a particular interest in equine dysphagia (chewing and swallowing disorders) from her training as a speech pathologist.
To learn more, kindly visit:
Website: https://darkhorseslp.com/
IG: https://www.instagram.com/darkhorse_slp/
FB: https://www.facebook.com/p/Dark-Horse-Therapeutics-61551235773464/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thanks so much for listening!
Please write a review if you're inspired!
For Riding Instructors, please visit this support page: https://www.inspiredriding.com/support-for-riding-instructors
𝙈𝙖𝙮 𝙩𝙝𝙚 𝙝𝙤𝙧𝙨𝙚 𝙗𝙚 𝙬𝙞𝙩𝙝 𝙮𝙤𝙪. 𝘼𝙡𝙬𝙖𝙮𝙨.
-Beth Lauren Parrish, Certified Hypnotherapist, Riding Instructor, & Creator of 𝐈𝐧𝐬𝐩𝐢𝐫𝐞𝐝 𝐑𝐢𝐝𝐢𝐧𝐠®
PS Have you heard the calming meditations for equestrians? Check them out here: https://www.inspiredriding.com/guided-meditations
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Beth, welcome to the inspired riding
podcast.
I'm your host. Beth. LaurenParrish as a certified riding
(00:23):
instructor, remote coach andrapid transformational therapy
practitioner, a powerful form ofhypnotherapy. I'm here to remind
you to slow down, trust yourintuition and really deeply
listen to your horse, and thiswill make for the best co
creative dances possible,whether you're on the ground or
connecting on their backs.
(00:45):
Thank you so much for beinghere, and here we go. Hello
there. Inspired riders. We'recontinuing along with the riding
instructor interview series, andin this podcast, I'll be
interviewing Veronica RonnieRosenthal.
Ronnie is a lifelong horse womanfrom Central Texas. She's a
(01:06):
licensed speech languagepathologist and a certified
therapeutic riding instructor.
Ronnie's speech therapy careerhas focused on serving deaf and
hard of hearing individuals. Shetook an off the beaten path in
her field by becoming a fierceadvocate for signed languages,
she is fluent in American SignLanguage and provides
(01:27):
horsemanship and ridinginstruction in ASL.
Ronnie obtained her ctriqualification from path
International in 2019and launched her equine
business, Dark Horsetherapeutics in 2020
she currently runs a microEquine Assisted Therapy program
(01:49):
in Westchester, Pennsylvania.
In addition to teaching, Ronniestudies equine body work
modalities and carries a smallcaseload of Equine clients,
Ronnie has a particular interestin equine dysphagia, chewing and
swallowing disorders from hertraining as a speech
pathologist.
I'm really looking forward tothis interview, and here we go,
(02:14):
Ronnie. Thank you so much forbeing here with me today.
My pleasure.
So as you know, I'm doing thisinterview series for riding
instructor support.
I'd love to know first questionfor you, what do you love most
about riding and teaching?
Regards to teaching, I lovesharing horses with other
(02:39):
people. That's a great joy forme,
and I love riding and training.
Thisis a very simple answer, but it
just feels so good. It feels sofun to be able to communicate
with an animal like a horse andbe able to develop understanding
(03:05):
and language with them.
And I'm a total riding addict. Imean, I love, you know, but
inside all time is happy timefor me, I am not riding very
much right now. I have a seniorhorse and greener horses and my
string,but it's, it's all fun and and
so fulfilling to be workingtowards goals with these fun
(03:30):
animals. Yeah,I love that so much. And I'm,
I'm very much the addict, too. Ihad a, I think I had a trainer
tell me, she said, Beth, youwere not bitten by the bug. You
were attacked by it.
So it sounds like you're in thesame boat there. Yeah, I found
out I had, you know, total,like, horse gene or something. I
(03:55):
found out years after I had beenriding, begging for lessons,
begging for a pony forChristmas. You know, totally
consumed as a kid that actually,I had a great grandfather who
rode in the cavalry, and I sawphotos of him, and my mom
explained this memory of seeinghis riding boots lined up
against the wall and histrophies. And I was like, maybe
(04:18):
it did skip a couple generationsor something. I mean, I don't
know so many more of us in theworld used to ride and be around
horses and care for horses on adaily basis, you know, 150 200
years ago. And so maybe all USCrazy Horse girls are just, you
know, living through ancestralmemory or something, and feeling
(04:39):
the need to go back to thehorses, even though we don't
need them for war andtransportation anymore. Yes,
thank goodness. We're veryblessed. They've they've gotten
us through so much, and Itotally agree. I had a great
uncle who used to ride, and hewas the only one in our family
who rode. That's actually how Istarted riding. Is he passed
away when I was eight, and Ijust turned to my parents and
(04:59):
said, can I.
Glasses to keep it in thefamily.
And they were like, Okay, we'lltry to figure this out. They had
no idea. And of course, itturned into this huge passion.
But I love that concept of liketapping into the ancestral
energy of bringing forth thatpassion and that connection, and
I think it's so important tokeep it going. I was actually
(05:22):
able to show that photo toCharles, to kunfi. I wrote for
him once. Oh, yeah. I just gotchills from Hi narrow i Yes. And
at that point in Charles hislife, I think that he didn't
really want to talk very much toother people. He absolutely came
alive and was very active andengaged when he was teaching,
but he said, this is very nicepicture. And then sort of, you
(05:46):
know, dismissed me. But I, forme, it was so important to show
him my connection, because he'sbeen such a, you know,
Ambassador for the art. Andyeah, Charles has been on my
heart and on my mind this lastmonth since he passed. And so,
yeah, that was special to get toshare that with him. That's
absolutely gorgeous. I got toaudit one of his clinics, and I
(06:10):
remember vividly him lookingover and saying, You should
listen to me. I'm very, verysmart. And I said, Yes, sir.
But yeah, what a blessing. And Istill have some of his books I
need to review again.
My favorite one is a writer'ssurvival from tyranny. I mean,
(06:32):
it's just absolutely heartwrenching, gut wrenching, to
hear what he lived through andwhat his
life was like at that time. And,yeah, it's, it's an incredible
story. And I love thedescriptions of the horses. You
know, it's sort of like pudskis.
My horse is my teachers. He goesthrough all of these different
(06:54):
horses that kind of made him asa rider. So that's a very
special that's my favoriteCharles's book, although he told
me that his favorite is ethicsand passions, because I think
that that's been his opportunityto explain to everyone what the
deal is, but I like a writer'ssurvival from tyranny. He told
me he doesn't like it, becauseit's hard to think about those
things that happened to him. Soyeah, oh, sure. I mean just
(07:16):
reading people's transformationstories is absolutely inspiring
and really important tounderstand that no matter where
you are, you can overcome, yeah,yeah. So beautiful.
So Ronnie, how have you shiftedyour teaching over the years?
(07:37):
You know, what's interesting is,when I reviewed this question,
the first thing I thought of,well, I am a teacher now, and I
think that I had this chip on myshoulder for a long time like,
Oh, I'm just an amateur. I'mjust doing therapeutic stuff
because I'm not good enough forbeing a real writing instructor.
(07:58):
But I don't feel that wayanymore at all.
I think that an equineprofessional is someone who gets
paid to do stuff with horses,and I've been doing that for a
long time now, so I think I havea lot to offer in that sphere.
And so I think that that biggestshift has happened for me
(08:22):
in just like taking up the selfconfidence and the mantle of
being like, yeah, I have thingsto say. I have things that I can
help you with. So that's beenthe biggest shift. I love that.
So you're taking it on as yourfull identity now.
So good, so good.
So how do you stay inspiredmy own horses, I have to have
(08:48):
my own ability to makedecisions, management, training
decisions. That was a huge shiftfor me. Just in the last two
years. I have actually neverowned a horse. I have not been
in a position to have personalhorse ownership. I have leased,
had multi year leases. I havebeen a working student. I have
(09:12):
worked for many, many farms overthe years, but I'm a millennial
with massive student loans, andI also live in the city. My
husband is night blind, and soliving on a farm is not a great
fit for our family structure. SoI've been very lucky to kind of
(09:32):
figure out how, how I fit intothis industry, and figure out
how I can get, my fix, get myhorse fix. And so in this past
two years, I've been luckyenough to be in a position where
I do get to make decisions, andI do get to make choices about
training, and that's been kindof a dream come true for me,
(09:55):
because I'm sure there's a lotof people listening who are in
position.
With riding lease horses orriding lesson horses, and maybe
they don't feel 100%aligned with their coaches
decisions or the ownersdecisions. And I just, I, my
heart goes out to them, becauseit's, it's so hard, it's so so
hard to feel like you have a afeeling, a sense your horse is
(10:18):
telling you something, butyou're you don't have the power
the control tohelp them. Yeah, yes, and that's
something that I've been workingtowards, is to shine the light
on being okay with sharing yourintuitive hits in a tactful way,
whether it's with yourinstructor or with another
boarder. I did a recent podcaston on barn diplomacy. You know,
(10:42):
I'm trying to help keepingkeeping these copacetic and when
to know when it's time to leavethings like that.
So now I'm curious, what sort ofdecisions are you making now
with your own horses that aredifferent?
The way I'm riding has changed alot. When I'm choosing to ride,
maybe I'm choosing not to ride.
(11:06):
I'm managing a school master inhis 20s right now, and he's very
well educated, very good boy. Hewill do anything for me, and I
have to be careful, becausehe'll hurt himself for me if I
am not,you know, really conscious of
how we go. He's very powerful,and so I'm just trying to listen
(11:27):
to him, yeah, that's the key,and they'll tell us. And that's
the other thing I teach, isfeeling safe and confident
enough to really tune in to hearwhat they're saying.
Absolutely. Yeah. So awesome.
Thank you for sharing that.
Okay, so do you have anyteaching tips that you'd like to
(11:48):
share?
Yes,so my area of expertise is in
communication disorders, right?
And I feel like we all develop acommunication disorder when
we're under pressure on ourhorse and trying to do our best,
and our language centers shutoff and we can't hear what our
(12:09):
instructor is yelling at us. Andso I think it's just good for
all of us to think aboutcognition is different than
language understanding notunderstanding language, does not
mean that you're not smart.
Those are two separate parts ofthe brain, and also our language
(12:30):
centers have less capacity whenwe're stressed, when there's a
lot going on, when we'redistracted, and everyone that
might be interested in ridingand horsemanship might have
different capacity for differentstyles of communication, and so
my biggest encouragement forpeople is to think visually. And
if anyone wants to contact me, Ihave pre made visuals that are
(12:51):
for children and adults who havedifficulty understanding through
the air language, but seeing thepicture of something bypasses
that language center, so theyimmediately understand. And so I
can get through a seven stepsequence with somebody looking
at my grid that has the helmetand the groom bucket and the
(13:14):
hoof pick and the saddle, andyou need to put your stirrups
down, and all of this stuff canbe right here, and I might have
to do that, presenting thatdirection, one thing at a time,
maybe even like physicallyassisting or hand over hand with
someone. If I didn't have myvisual, if I have my visual,
they're able to immediatelyunderstand and follow that.
(13:36):
For writers who are not, youknow, needing that level of
support, I've had to teachlessons in American Sign
Language, and I feel like myunderstanding of dressage
movements has gotten way bettersince I physically had to, like,
sign them out in ASL and make ithappen with my body. So, like,
No, really. How are you supposedto sit for shoulder in and,
(13:59):
like, do research and figure outhow to how to physically show
someone with a body movingthrough space what it is that we
want the horse to do. And Ithink a lot of language around
riding can be very murky andobtuse and hard to figure out.
And so I think my biggest tipwould be more visuals for
(14:20):
everyone.
I love that so much. That's socool that you created those. And
when you're describing what youdo with the dressage riders, I'm
wondering, have you ever seenSylvia Locke's videos where she
has her riders going aroundwithout horses doing the
movements? No, I haven't. Thatsounds wonderful. I think that
would be so cool to have yourstudents do that too, like with
(14:43):
you, yeah, yeah, you can do likea conga line, even with doing
thedifferent movements. That would
be so cool. I love that you doall this. This is so important.
Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.
Do you have a story about afavorite lesson?
Course,yes, I will talk about Loki.
(15:09):
Loki is in my program here inPennsylvania, I have to say a
huge thank you to his owner,Kathy, for allowing Loki to
participate in our program.
Loki took care of a kiddo ofmine who is deaf and on the
spectrum, and he really enjoyedtrail riding with Loki, but he
(15:33):
decided that it was interestingto kamikaze dive off of Loki.
And Loki is not a small horse.
He's a quarter horse, mid size.
He's maybe like 15 something,but it's a good ways from the
ground for a little guy. He's asix year old kid. And
(15:56):
what I realized was this was alittle bit of an attention
seekingbehavior. And it was funny, and
so I had to play chicken alittle bit with like, we don't
want to attend to the behaviorand reward the behavior. But I
also have to balance the factthat this child is hanging off
the side of the horse like aMongolian Archer or something.
(16:21):
And sweet Loki. I mean, I waswatching very carefully. I was
like, are you okay? Like, I willtake this child off this horse.
And he was like, I'm good, youknow. And so eventually we had
to figure out the Kamikazesituation, because that was
just, you know, not fair toLoki, and was giving me a heart
attack, but huge. Thank you toLoki for
(16:45):
putting putting up with thatexperimentation that we were
doing. What a kind soul. I'msure he understood that
something wasn't quite right,and he just had to, like, keep
it together right. Exactly,exactly.
Amazing. Oh my gosh. So I'mguessing that you got it all
sorted now, right?
Yeah, no, unfortunately, thatstudent is no longer with me,
(17:10):
and it is because theinterest of those types of
behaviors just became moremotivating than riding and being
around the horses. And I thinkthat that's an important thing
for people to understand in theequine therapy space, is that
there are contraindications, andthat not all riders are
appropriate for Equine Assistedtherapies and therapeutic riding
(17:37):
programs. One big reason why Ihave started my own program is
so that I can have thatdiscretion and,
yeah, just, you know, horses aremagical, but they're not magic
in terms of being able to like Ioften find that the clients that
are maybe not appropriatecandidates, it's not so much the
kid or the participant, It's thecaregivers or the family members
(18:01):
that really desperately wanttheir loved one to have a
connection with horses or justto feel better. But our I
strongly believe that our firstobligation if we're going to use
partner with horses in thisspace is to them first, because
they didn't sign up for this.
(18:23):
They didn't go to graduateschool to get a therapeutic
license or whatever. You know,they are our horse. So I have to
prioritize my horses well beingwhen it comes to, you know,
choosing clients. And, yeah, I'mso glad you said that, and it's
so good to have those boundariesand to be able to make those
sometimes hard decisions, butit's so important to honor the
(18:43):
horse, so thank you for sharingthat too.
What's something that surprisedyou? Recently while teaching,
I have been doing some internalwork around one of the horses in
my string. His name is Winniethe Pooh, and
(19:04):
he's wonderful. He's really coolguy. But Winnie the Pooh
challenges me and myhorsemanship, because it's
pretty easy for me to get horsesto like me and to want to please
me, and that is not so with Mr.
Winnie the Pooh.
He his first and best answer,Best Foot Forward is no. And so
(19:29):
learning what's motivating forhim, learning what he likes to
do, has been a fun journey forme to figure out, and I had a
new client to her the other day,a woman in her 60s. She has been
wanting to ride horses herentire life, and this has been
her first opportunity. And wewent out in the pasture just to
(19:53):
sort of meet and greet. I wasexpecting to kind of be like,
there's Winnie the Pooh andthere's Loki and.
You know, these are, these are,you know, maybe horses that
you'll spend time with. AndWinnie the Pooh came over and
gave her the sweetest, kindestgreeting. And was very like,
interested and engaged. And itwas just a really great moment.
(20:16):
And gave me kind of a flicker ofokay, like, I have this feeling
that he is going to be great inmy program once he understands
that it's fun and easy and noone's going to make him work
very hard. But he's worriedabout that. He has lots of
questions. He's like, What arewe doing? What's going on? And
so we're just slowly, you know,building that relationship. So I
(20:42):
guess that was a surprise forme. I was expecting a little bit
for him to blow us off, but hedidn't. He wanted to participate
and endure our presence. That'sabsolutely beautiful. I wonder
if he felt that feeling of itdidn't matter if he showed up or
not, so it took off thepressure,
(21:03):
probably, and big. Thank you tohis owner, Kathy as well. I have
two Kathy's for owners. That's alittle it's easier. It's
confusing. Whichever onedo they have 1k 1c or are they
both? Yeah, okay, that makes ita little bit easier.
Yeah, ifyou could teach a master class
(21:24):
to other instructors, what wouldthe topic be, and what would be
some of the key points in there?
Oh, I probably already discussedthis a little bit around
visuals, but I can get a littlebit more technical. So in
speech therapist training, wetalked about, we talk about
(21:44):
prompting hierarchy. So we talkabout, what are the levels of
support that an individual needsto understand your message. So
it might be verbally, it mightbe verbally paired with a
gesture. It might be verballypaired with a picture, symbol or
a visual. It might be signed, itmight be with multiple
(22:06):
repetitions. It might be gainingattention or orientation of the
individual, then provide theadditional communication that
you need. And so I guess thatyou know, any riding instructor
down the road, some of us horsepeople are amazing, intuitive
communicators, and a lot of usare also not, you know, we're
(22:29):
here for the horses and trainingthe horses, and then you have to
figure out how to people andteach the people. And so I
think, thinking abouthow you're communicating and
also consideringhow the individual best
understands. You know, are youcommunicating in a feedback loop
(22:57):
where you're thinking about howthat person is receiving the
message? And I think about thisall the time with myself. I
might have a lot to say and wantto get the message out, but am I
considering how it isbeing processed by the other
person, and what can I do tocheck for that understanding?
Could I stop and ask a question.
(23:22):
Could I pause? Could I givespace for the person to give me
feedback about what theirexperience is?
And then, yeah, just going backto the visual thing, recognizing
that visuals bypass yourlanguage, center of your brain,
which may or may not be onlinewhen you're stressed and trying
(23:45):
to perform. And you know, Isometimes I feel like I do my
worst riding in lessons. Ibecause I am a teacher's pet and
want to please the instructorsand my coaches.
So yes, I would teach a masterclass in communication
techniques and using visualaids. I love that so much.
(24:07):
If you can create a billboardfor all instructors to see, what
would it say?
Probably use visuals and alsoamateur means, for the love of
it. And so I would love forinstructors to have
(24:32):
deep respect for their students,who are, you know, putting their
heart on a platter, showing upand wanting this so much, and,
um, there's, there's almost likegoing back to the vet. So there
can be a little bit of acontempt for the amateur or the
lay person. And I, I loveprograms like yours that are
(24:56):
really supporting thoseindividuals to find.
You know their meaningful paththrough, through their horse
journey. So yeah, I think that'swhat I would say. Thank you. I
love that.
Do you have a transformationstory that you wanted to share?
I do. Okay, cool.
So one of my writers back inTexas was deaf, blind, so
(25:23):
multiple sensory impairments.
This individual communicatedthrough American Sign Language,
but she had a very restrictedvisual field. So if you take
your eyes like, Oh, this isabout what her visual field
looked like. So very minimalperipheral vision, very minimal
vision below her midline.
And, um, so horse handling andgrooming and being around on the
(25:50):
ground was really challengingfor her, navigating the space
uneven surfaces, knowing whereher body was in relationship to
the horse, you know, proxemics,distance and where your body is
in space around the horse is soimportant to them. She had
pretty high anxiety aboutleading and being around the
(26:11):
horse on the ground. She wasvery worried that the horse was
going to, you know, be in herspace or, you know, and rightly
so, riding. She had a lot moreconfidence. She could kind of
get around. I think being uphigher and being able to track
was really supportive andhelpful for her.
I used atool for her. I'm going to have
(26:32):
to ask my orientation andmobility specialist friend
exactly what this was called,but it was basically a felt
board that was black, so it washigh contrast, and you had
little movable pieces, so thatyou could create a mock arena,
and we could go through do thisobstacle first, and this
obstacle first. And over here isset up the, you know, pole
(26:53):
pattern, or the barrel pattern,or whatever you need. So that
was a tool that I used for herso that it was tactile. She
could feel it and she could seeit with the high contrast. But
one day, wedecided to have spa day for our
one of our lesson courses, and Iam not sure
(27:19):
what my decision making processwas but I thought, Noah, she can
do it. She can lead her from thegroom area to the wash rack. And
I handed her the lead rope, andI always positioned myself in a
very specific place so that Ican support her step in if
needed. Maybe give the horse alittle couple prompts to help
(27:40):
along, but things were goingreally well, so I kind of
distanced myself a little bit,just to give her this sense of
you're doing it, you're beingindependent.
And the horse saw some grass,took a dive for the grass and
stepped right on her foot. Shehad to go to the hospital
because her toenail popped offand she really hurt herself. And
(28:04):
to her credit, she stuck withthe lesson for another good like
1015, minutes after that, andshe was like, No, Mom, my foot
really, really hurts. So weended up in the hospital
together that night,but she came back, and she kept
working on it. We started withhaving her lead the mini ponies
that we had at that facility,and we worked up to her being
(28:28):
able to lead the other horses.
And now she's still riding andenjoying horses, walk, trot,
canter, yeah, just doing afabulous job, sort of persisting
with a scary thing that happenedthat was my fault, but,
yeah, she, she's she's doinggreat, and I'm so thrilled that,
(28:51):
you know, the draw of the horseshas been motivating enough for
her to sort of work through thatsignificant fear. And you know,
something that sucks. Thatreally sucks. Yeah, that's a
gorgeous transformation. And tobe fair, you really were trying
to give her more autonomy andshow her she could do it. So I
don't think it's completely yourfault. I think there was always
(29:13):
that factor is we're workingwith horses. Horses do stuff,
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didconsider the fact that this
could have happened with anystudent, but the fact that it
happened with the student thatwas a most afraid of this exact
thing happening.
I mean, maybe there's a lot ofattraction thing going on there,
(29:36):
butyeah, well, let's just say we're
happy she's okay now and get shegot back to it, and perhaps it
was getting over that fear of itactually happening, and then
realizing she survived. That'salways good, too.
Yeah. Well, I'm really gratefulthat you shared that story,
(29:56):
because I couldn't even imagineworking.
With a student that had suchlimited eyesight. I mean, the
things you do are incredible,Ronnie, and I'm so grateful that
you do this in the horse world.
It's amazing. I don't knowanyone else who is doing it, and
I would love if anyone is outthere who signs American Sign
Language or Australian SignLanguage or Columbian sign
(30:19):
language, whatever you're doing,and is in the horses to reach
out and let me know. I have acouple of contacts. I actually
have a close friend of mine whowent through the path
international certifiedtherapeutic riding instructor
program. Through my license andgot her certification. We think
(30:40):
that she's the first deaf weknow that she's the first deaf
person to hold thiscertification.
So I hope that there are moreopportunities for deaf people
and signers to enjoy horsesand get, get to learn and get
access in their first language.
(31:05):
I think that there's a lot tolearn from,
you know, watching a Deaf ridinglesson, the things that I have
to do to make sure that I cangive in the moment, feedback
from my riders, like Idefinitely get my steps in. You
know, I have to think constantlyabout where my writer is in
relationship to where their eyegaze can find me. And so I do a
(31:29):
lot of like, go to the longside. I run to the end of the
long side so that I can besigning, and they could be
seeing me down that entire longside, and I can be giving
feedback. But circles don'treally work because you're like,
you know, looking over here, Ifind that I also have to be
extremely good at explainingwhat it is that I want. Then go
(31:51):
with God and, you know, try it.
And then we go back and we, youknow, regroup, and we talk about
what it is that happened or whatwe can do better. And so it's a
real challenge to make sure thatI know what I'm talking about,
and that I can break down thesteps and I can,
you know, not just stand in themiddle of the arena and yell at
(32:15):
my rider. I mean, I think thatthat's how I was coached, and
I'm sure it's how a lot ofpeople were coached, and that's
not going to work for a deafwriter, but that might not work
for a lot of writers. So it'sgood to think about these
different ways. That's so true.
I really see how an entirecourse would be super valuable.
So I'm just giving you thatgentle pony nudge. Do it? Do it.
(32:37):
Well, is there anything elseyou'd like to add that I didn't
ask you,not that I can think of. No,
yeah, thank you so much forhaving me. It's delightful to
talk about horses on a beautifulevening with you. It really is.
Thank you so much. And how canpeople get a hold of you?
(32:59):
Ronnie,you can reach me at Dark Horse
therapeutics@gmail.com,I am on Instagram at Dark Horse
underscore. SLP, SLP. Likespeech language pathologist.
That's my big girl job.
I'm on Facebook as Dark Horsetherapeutics, and my website is
(33:25):
Dark Horse slp.com, and I justredid my website. I'm very
pleased with it. And so peoplecan go check out the therapeutic
services that I offer, as wellas my equine body work practice,
and talk very much about thattoday, but that's another skill
set that I have, and I kind ofinterweave that throughout my
(33:48):
teaching now. That's been a bigshift for my teaching in the
last five years or so. So yeah,those are all my places you can
find me fantastic, and I'll besure to add all of those links
to the show notes so people canfind you very easily and reach
out. Wonderfulthank you again for being here.
(34:09):
It was a pleasure to chat withyou.
Yes, thank you. You're welcome.
All right, everyone, please docheck out the show notes so you
can reach out to Ronnie andthank you so much for listening
and remember to lead withkindness for yourself and for
your horse.
May the horse be with you alwaysyou.
Beth, welcome to the inspired riding
podcast.
I'm your host. Beth. LaurenParrish as a certified riding
(00:23):
instructor, remote coach andrapid transformational therapy
practitioner, a powerful form ofhypnotherapy. I'm here to remind
you to slow down, trust yourintuition and really deeply
listen to your horse, and thiswill make for the best co
creative dances possible,whether you're on the ground or
connecting on their backs.
(00:45):
Thank you so much for beinghere, and here we go. Hello
there. Inspired riders. We'recontinuing along with the riding
instructor interview series, andin this podcast, I'll be
interviewing Veronica RonnieRosenthal.
Ronnie is a lifelong horse womanfrom Central Texas. She's a
(01:06):
licensed speech languagepathologist and a certified
therapeutic riding instructor.
Ronnie's speech therapy careerhas focused on serving deaf and
hard of hearing individuals. Shetook an off the beaten path in
her field by becoming a fierceadvocate for signed languages,
she is fluent in American SignLanguage and provides
(01:27):
horsemanship and ridinginstruction in ASL.
Ronnie obtained her ctriqualification from path
International in 2019and launched her equine
business, Dark Horsetherapeutics in 2020
she currently runs a microEquine Assisted Therapy program
(01:49):
in Westchester, Pennsylvania.
In addition to teaching, Ronniestudies equine body work
modalities and carries a smallcaseload of Equine clients,
Ronnie has a particular interestin equine dysphagia, chewing and
swallowing disorders from hertraining as a speech
pathologist.
I'm really looking forward tothis interview, and here we go,
(02:14):
Ronnie. Thank you so much forbeing here with me today.
My pleasure.
So as you know, I'm doing thisinterview series for riding
instructor support.
I'd love to know first questionfor you, what do you love most
about riding and teaching?
Regards to teaching, I lovesharing horses with other
(02:39):
people. That's a great joy forme,
and I love riding and training.
Thisis a very simple answer, but it
just feels so good. It feels sofun to be able to communicate
with an animal like a horse andbe able to develop understanding
(03:05):
and language with them.
And I'm a total riding addict. Imean, I love, you know, but
inside all time is happy timefor me, I am not riding very
much right now. I have a seniorhorse and greener horses and my
string,but it's, it's all fun and and
so fulfilling to be workingtowards goals with these fun
(03:30):
animals. Yeah,I love that so much. And I'm,
I'm very much the addict, too. Ihad a, I think I had a trainer
tell me, she said, Beth, youwere not bitten by the bug. You
were attacked by it.
So it sounds like you're in thesame boat there. Yeah, I found
out I had, you know, total,like, horse gene or something. I
(03:55):
found out years after I had beenriding, begging for lessons,
begging for a pony forChristmas. You know, totally
consumed as a kid that actually,I had a great grandfather who
rode in the cavalry, and I sawphotos of him, and my mom
explained this memory of seeinghis riding boots lined up
against the wall and histrophies. And I was like, maybe
(04:18):
it did skip a couple generationsor something. I mean, I don't
know so many more of us in theworld used to ride and be around
horses and care for horses on adaily basis, you know, 150 200
years ago. And so maybe all USCrazy Horse girls are just, you
know, living through ancestralmemory or something, and feeling
(04:39):
the need to go back to thehorses, even though we don't
need them for war andtransportation anymore. Yes,
thank goodness. We're veryblessed. They've they've gotten
us through so much, and Itotally agree. I had a great
uncle who used to ride, and hewas the only one in our family
who rode. That's actually how Istarted riding. Is he passed
away when I was eight, and Ijust turned to my parents and
(04:59):
said, can I.
Glasses to keep it in thefamily.
And they were like, Okay, we'lltry to figure this out. They had
no idea. And of course, itturned into this huge passion.
But I love that concept of liketapping into the ancestral
energy of bringing forth thatpassion and that connection, and
I think it's so important tokeep it going. I was actually
(05:22):
able to show that photo toCharles, to kunfi. I wrote for
him once. Oh, yeah. I just gotchills from Hi narrow i Yes. And
at that point in Charles hislife, I think that he didn't
really want to talk very much toother people. He absolutely came
alive and was very active andengaged when he was teaching,
but he said, this is very nicepicture. And then sort of, you
(05:46):
know, dismissed me. But I, forme, it was so important to show
him my connection, because he'sbeen such a, you know,
Ambassador for the art. Andyeah, Charles has been on my
heart and on my mind this lastmonth since he passed. And so,
yeah, that was special to get toshare that with him. That's
absolutely gorgeous. I got toaudit one of his clinics, and I
(06:10):
remember vividly him lookingover and saying, You should
listen to me. I'm very, verysmart. And I said, Yes, sir.
But yeah, what a blessing. And Istill have some of his books I
need to review again.
My favorite one is a writer'ssurvival from tyranny. I mean,
(06:32):
it's just absolutely heartwrenching, gut wrenching, to
hear what he lived through andwhat his
life was like at that time. And,yeah, it's, it's an incredible
story. And I love thedescriptions of the horses. You
know, it's sort of like pudskis.
My horse is my teachers. He goesthrough all of these different
(06:54):
horses that kind of made him asa rider. So that's a very
special that's my favoriteCharles's book, although he told
me that his favorite is ethicsand passions, because I think
that that's been his opportunityto explain to everyone what the
deal is, but I like a writer'ssurvival from tyranny. He told
me he doesn't like it, becauseit's hard to think about those
things that happened to him. Soyeah, oh, sure. I mean just
(07:16):
reading people's transformationstories is absolutely inspiring
and really important tounderstand that no matter where
you are, you can overcome, yeah,yeah. So beautiful.
So Ronnie, how have you shiftedyour teaching over the years?
(07:37):
You know, what's interesting is,when I reviewed this question,
the first thing I thought of,well, I am a teacher now, and I
think that I had this chip on myshoulder for a long time like,
Oh, I'm just an amateur. I'mjust doing therapeutic stuff
because I'm not good enough forbeing a real writing instructor.
(07:58):
But I don't feel that wayanymore at all.
I think that an equineprofessional is someone who gets
paid to do stuff with horses,and I've been doing that for a
long time now, so I think I havea lot to offer in that sphere.
And so I think that that biggestshift has happened for me
(08:22):
in just like taking up the selfconfidence and the mantle of
being like, yeah, I have thingsto say. I have things that I can
help you with. So that's beenthe biggest shift. I love that.
So you're taking it on as yourfull identity now.
So good, so good.
So how do you stay inspiredmy own horses, I have to have
(08:48):
my own ability to makedecisions, management, training
decisions. That was a huge shiftfor me. Just in the last two
years. I have actually neverowned a horse. I have not been
in a position to have personalhorse ownership. I have leased,
had multi year leases. I havebeen a working student. I have
(09:12):
worked for many, many farms overthe years, but I'm a millennial
with massive student loans, andI also live in the city. My
husband is night blind, and soliving on a farm is not a great
fit for our family structure. SoI've been very lucky to kind of
(09:32):
figure out how, how I fit intothis industry, and figure out
how I can get, my fix, get myhorse fix. And so in this past
two years, I've been luckyenough to be in a position where
I do get to make decisions, andI do get to make choices about
training, and that's been kindof a dream come true for me,
(09:55):
because I'm sure there's a lotof people listening who are in
position.
With riding lease horses orriding lesson horses, and maybe
they don't feel 100%aligned with their coaches
decisions or the ownersdecisions. And I just, I, my
heart goes out to them, becauseit's, it's so hard, it's so so
hard to feel like you have a afeeling, a sense your horse is
(10:18):
telling you something, butyou're you don't have the power
the control tohelp them. Yeah, yes, and that's
something that I've been workingtowards, is to shine the light
on being okay with sharing yourintuitive hits in a tactful way,
whether it's with yourinstructor or with another
boarder. I did a recent podcaston on barn diplomacy. You know,
(10:42):
I'm trying to help keepingkeeping these copacetic and when
to know when it's time to leavethings like that.
So now I'm curious, what sort ofdecisions are you making now
with your own horses that aredifferent?
The way I'm riding has changed alot. When I'm choosing to ride,
maybe I'm choosing not to ride.
(11:06):
I'm managing a school master inhis 20s right now, and he's very
well educated, very good boy. Hewill do anything for me, and I
have to be careful, becausehe'll hurt himself for me if I
am not,you know, really conscious of
how we go. He's very powerful,and so I'm just trying to listen
(11:27):
to him, yeah, that's the key,and they'll tell us. And that's
the other thing I teach, isfeeling safe and confident
enough to really tune in to hearwhat they're saying.
Absolutely. Yeah. So awesome.
Thank you for sharing that.
Okay, so do you have anyteaching tips that you'd like to
(11:48):
share?
Yes,so my area of expertise is in
communication disorders, right?
And I feel like we all develop acommunication disorder when
we're under pressure on ourhorse and trying to do our best,
and our language centers shutoff and we can't hear what our
(12:09):
instructor is yelling at us. Andso I think it's just good for
all of us to think aboutcognition is different than
language understanding notunderstanding language, does not
mean that you're not smart.
Those are two separate parts ofthe brain, and also our language
(12:30):
centers have less capacity whenwe're stressed, when there's a
lot going on, when we'redistracted, and everyone that
might be interested in ridingand horsemanship might have
different capacity for differentstyles of communication, and so
my biggest encouragement forpeople is to think visually. And
if anyone wants to contact me, Ihave pre made visuals that are
(12:51):
for children and adults who havedifficulty understanding through
the air language, but seeing thepicture of something bypasses
that language center, so theyimmediately understand. And so I
can get through a seven stepsequence with somebody looking
at my grid that has the helmetand the groom bucket and the
(13:14):
hoof pick and the saddle, andyou need to put your stirrups
down, and all of this stuff canbe right here, and I might have
to do that, presenting thatdirection, one thing at a time,
maybe even like physicallyassisting or hand over hand with
someone. If I didn't have myvisual, if I have my visual,
they're able to immediatelyunderstand and follow that.
(13:36):
For writers who are not, youknow, needing that level of
support, I've had to teachlessons in American Sign
Language, and I feel like myunderstanding of dressage
movements has gotten way bettersince I physically had to, like,
sign them out in ASL and make ithappen with my body. So, like,
No, really. How are you supposedto sit for shoulder in and,
(13:59):
like, do research and figure outhow to how to physically show
someone with a body movingthrough space what it is that we
want the horse to do. And Ithink a lot of language around
riding can be very murky andobtuse and hard to figure out.
And so I think my biggest tipwould be more visuals for
(14:20):
everyone.
I love that so much. That's socool that you created those. And
when you're describing what youdo with the dressage riders, I'm
wondering, have you ever seenSylvia Locke's videos where she
has her riders going aroundwithout horses doing the
movements? No, I haven't. Thatsounds wonderful. I think that
would be so cool to have yourstudents do that too, like with
(14:43):
you, yeah, yeah, you can do likea conga line, even with doing
thedifferent movements. That would
be so cool. I love that you doall this. This is so important.
Thank you. Yeah, you're welcome.
Do you have a story about afavorite lesson?
Course,yes, I will talk about Loki.
(15:09):
Loki is in my program here inPennsylvania, I have to say a
huge thank you to his owner,Kathy, for allowing Loki to
participate in our program.
Loki took care of a kiddo ofmine who is deaf and on the
spectrum, and he really enjoyedtrail riding with Loki, but he
(15:33):
decided that it was interestingto kamikaze dive off of Loki.
And Loki is not a small horse.
He's a quarter horse, mid size.
He's maybe like 15 something,but it's a good ways from the
ground for a little guy. He's asix year old kid. And
(15:56):
what I realized was this was alittle bit of an attention
seekingbehavior. And it was funny, and
so I had to play chicken alittle bit with like, we don't
want to attend to the behaviorand reward the behavior. But I
also have to balance the factthat this child is hanging off
the side of the horse like aMongolian Archer or something.
(16:21):
And sweet Loki. I mean, I waswatching very carefully. I was
like, are you okay? Like, I willtake this child off this horse.
And he was like, I'm good, youknow. And so eventually we had
to figure out the Kamikazesituation, because that was
just, you know, not fair toLoki, and was giving me a heart
attack, but huge. Thank you toLoki for
(16:45):
putting putting up with thatexperimentation that we were
doing. What a kind soul. I'msure he understood that
something wasn't quite right,and he just had to, like, keep
it together right. Exactly,exactly.
Amazing. Oh my gosh. So I'mguessing that you got it all
sorted now, right?
Yeah, no, unfortunately, thatstudent is no longer with me,
(17:10):
and it is because theinterest of those types of
behaviors just became moremotivating than riding and being
around the horses. And I thinkthat that's an important thing
for people to understand in theequine therapy space, is that
there are contraindications, andthat not all riders are
appropriate for Equine Assistedtherapies and therapeutic riding
(17:37):
programs. One big reason why Ihave started my own program is
so that I can have thatdiscretion and,
yeah, just, you know, horses aremagical, but they're not magic
in terms of being able to like Ioften find that the clients that
are maybe not appropriatecandidates, it's not so much the
kid or the participant, It's thecaregivers or the family members
(18:01):
that really desperately wanttheir loved one to have a
connection with horses or justto feel better. But our I
strongly believe that our firstobligation if we're going to use
partner with horses in thisspace is to them first, because
they didn't sign up for this.
(18:23):
They didn't go to graduateschool to get a therapeutic
license or whatever. You know,they are our horse. So I have to
prioritize my horses well beingwhen it comes to, you know,
choosing clients. And, yeah, I'mso glad you said that, and it's
so good to have those boundariesand to be able to make those
sometimes hard decisions, butit's so important to honor the
(18:43):
horse, so thank you for sharingthat too.
What's something that surprisedyou? Recently while teaching,
I have been doing some internalwork around one of the horses in
my string. His name is Winniethe Pooh, and
(19:04):
he's wonderful. He's really coolguy. But Winnie the Pooh
challenges me and myhorsemanship, because it's
pretty easy for me to get horsesto like me and to want to please
me, and that is not so with Mr.
Winnie the Pooh.
He his first and best answer,Best Foot Forward is no. And so
(19:29):
learning what's motivating forhim, learning what he likes to
do, has been a fun journey forme to figure out, and I had a
new client to her the other day,a woman in her 60s. She has been
wanting to ride horses herentire life, and this has been
her first opportunity. And wewent out in the pasture just to
(19:53):
sort of meet and greet. I wasexpecting to kind of be like,
there's Winnie the Pooh andthere's Loki and.
You know, these are, these are,you know, maybe horses that
you'll spend time with. AndWinnie the Pooh came over and
gave her the sweetest, kindestgreeting. And was very like,
interested and engaged. And itwas just a really great moment.
(20:16):
And gave me kind of a flicker ofokay, like, I have this feeling
that he is going to be great inmy program once he understands
that it's fun and easy and noone's going to make him work
very hard. But he's worriedabout that. He has lots of
questions. He's like, What arewe doing? What's going on? And
so we're just slowly, you know,building that relationship. So I
(20:42):
guess that was a surprise forme. I was expecting a little bit
for him to blow us off, but hedidn't. He wanted to participate
and endure our presence. That'sabsolutely beautiful. I wonder
if he felt that feeling of itdidn't matter if he showed up or
not, so it took off thepressure,
(21:03):
probably, and big. Thank you tohis owner, Kathy as well. I have
two Kathy's for owners. That's alittle it's easier. It's
confusing. Whichever onedo they have 1k 1c or are they
both? Yeah, okay, that makes ita little bit easier.
Yeah, ifyou could teach a master class
(21:24):
to other instructors, what wouldthe topic be, and what would be
some of the key points in there?
Oh, I probably already discussedthis a little bit around
visuals, but I can get a littlebit more technical. So in
speech therapist training, wetalked about, we talk about
(21:44):
prompting hierarchy. So we talkabout, what are the levels of
support that an individual needsto understand your message. So
it might be verbally, it mightbe verbally paired with a
gesture. It might be verballypaired with a picture, symbol or
a visual. It might be signed, itmight be with multiple
(22:06):
repetitions. It might be gainingattention or orientation of the
individual, then provide theadditional communication that
you need. And so I guess thatyou know, any riding instructor
down the road, some of us horsepeople are amazing, intuitive
communicators, and a lot of usare also not, you know, we're
(22:29):
here for the horses and trainingthe horses, and then you have to
figure out how to people andteach the people. And so I
think, thinking abouthow you're communicating and
also consideringhow the individual best
understands. You know, are youcommunicating in a feedback loop
(22:57):
where you're thinking about howthat person is receiving the
message? And I think about thisall the time with myself. I
might have a lot to say and wantto get the message out, but am I
considering how it isbeing processed by the other
person, and what can I do tocheck for that understanding?
Could I stop and ask a question.
(23:22):
Could I pause? Could I givespace for the person to give me
feedback about what theirexperience is?
And then, yeah, just going backto the visual thing, recognizing
that visuals bypass yourlanguage, center of your brain,
which may or may not be onlinewhen you're stressed and trying
(23:45):
to perform. And you know, Isometimes I feel like I do my
worst riding in lessons. Ibecause I am a teacher's pet and
want to please the instructorsand my coaches.
So yes, I would teach a masterclass in communication
techniques and using visualaids. I love that so much.
(24:07):
If you can create a billboardfor all instructors to see, what
would it say?
Probably use visuals and alsoamateur means, for the love of
it. And so I would love forinstructors to have
(24:32):
deep respect for their students,who are, you know, putting their
heart on a platter, showing upand wanting this so much, and,
um, there's, there's almost likegoing back to the vet. So there
can be a little bit of acontempt for the amateur or the
lay person. And I, I loveprograms like yours that are
(24:56):
really supporting thoseindividuals to find.
You know their meaningful paththrough, through their horse
journey. So yeah, I think that'swhat I would say. Thank you. I
love that.
Do you have a transformationstory that you wanted to share?
I do. Okay, cool.
So one of my writers back inTexas was deaf, blind, so
(25:23):
multiple sensory impairments.
This individual communicatedthrough American Sign Language,
but she had a very restrictedvisual field. So if you take
your eyes like, Oh, this isabout what her visual field
looked like. So very minimalperipheral vision, very minimal
vision below her midline.
And, um, so horse handling andgrooming and being around on the
(25:50):
ground was really challengingfor her, navigating the space
uneven surfaces, knowing whereher body was in relationship to
the horse, you know, proxemics,distance and where your body is
in space around the horse is soimportant to them. She had
pretty high anxiety aboutleading and being around the
(26:11):
horse on the ground. She wasvery worried that the horse was
going to, you know, be in herspace or, you know, and rightly
so, riding. She had a lot moreconfidence. She could kind of
get around. I think being uphigher and being able to track
was really supportive andhelpful for her.
I used atool for her. I'm going to have
(26:32):
to ask my orientation andmobility specialist friend
exactly what this was called,but it was basically a felt
board that was black, so it washigh contrast, and you had
little movable pieces, so thatyou could create a mock arena,
and we could go through do thisobstacle first, and this
obstacle first. And over here isset up the, you know, pole
(26:53):
pattern, or the barrel pattern,or whatever you need. So that
was a tool that I used for herso that it was tactile. She
could feel it and she could seeit with the high contrast. But
one day, wedecided to have spa day for our
one of our lesson courses, and Iam not sure
(27:19):
what my decision making processwas but I thought, Noah, she can
do it. She can lead her from thegroom area to the wash rack. And
I handed her the lead rope, andI always positioned myself in a
very specific place so that Ican support her step in if
needed. Maybe give the horse alittle couple prompts to help
(27:40):
along, but things were goingreally well, so I kind of
distanced myself a little bit,just to give her this sense of
you're doing it, you're beingindependent.
And the horse saw some grass,took a dive for the grass and
stepped right on her foot. Shehad to go to the hospital
because her toenail popped offand she really hurt herself. And
(28:04):
to her credit, she stuck withthe lesson for another good like
1015, minutes after that, andshe was like, No, Mom, my foot
really, really hurts. So weended up in the hospital
together that night,but she came back, and she kept
working on it. We started withhaving her lead the mini ponies
that we had at that facility,and we worked up to her being
(28:28):
able to lead the other horses.
And now she's still riding andenjoying horses, walk, trot,
canter, yeah, just doing afabulous job, sort of persisting
with a scary thing that happenedthat was my fault, but,
yeah, she, she's she's doinggreat, and I'm so thrilled that,
(28:51):
you know, the draw of the horseshas been motivating enough for
her to sort of work through thatsignificant fear. And you know,
something that sucks. Thatreally sucks. Yeah, that's a
gorgeous transformation. And tobe fair, you really were trying
to give her more autonomy andshow her she could do it. So I
don't think it's completely yourfault. I think there was always
(29:13):
that factor is we're workingwith horses. Horses do stuff,
right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didconsider the fact that this
could have happened with anystudent, but the fact that it
happened with the student thatwas a most afraid of this exact
thing happening.
I mean, maybe there's a lot ofattraction thing going on there,
(29:36):
butyeah, well, let's just say we're
happy she's okay now and get shegot back to it, and perhaps it
was getting over that fear of itactually happening, and then
realizing she survived. That'salways good, too.
Yeah. Well, I'm really gratefulthat you shared that story,
(29:56):
because I couldn't even imagineworking.
With a student that had suchlimited eyesight. I mean, the
things you do are incredible,Ronnie, and I'm so grateful that
you do this in the horse world.
It's amazing. I don't knowanyone else who is doing it, and
I would love if anyone is outthere who signs American Sign
Language or Australian SignLanguage or Columbian sign
(30:19):
language, whatever you're doing,and is in the horses to reach
out and let me know. I have acouple of contacts. I actually
have a close friend of mine whowent through the path
international certifiedtherapeutic riding instructor
program. Through my license andgot her certification. We think
(30:40):
that she's the first deaf weknow that she's the first deaf
person to hold thiscertification.
So I hope that there are moreopportunities for deaf people
and signers to enjoy horsesand get, get to learn and get
access in their first language.
(31:05):
I think that there's a lot tolearn from,
you know, watching a Deaf ridinglesson, the things that I have
to do to make sure that I cangive in the moment, feedback
from my riders, like Idefinitely get my steps in. You
know, I have to think constantlyabout where my writer is in
relationship to where their eyegaze can find me. And so I do a
(31:29):
lot of like, go to the longside. I run to the end of the
long side so that I can besigning, and they could be
seeing me down that entire longside, and I can be giving
feedback. But circles don'treally work because you're like,
you know, looking over here, Ifind that I also have to be
extremely good at explainingwhat it is that I want. Then go
(31:51):
with God and, you know, try it.
And then we go back and we, youknow, regroup, and we talk about
what it is that happened or whatwe can do better. And so it's a
real challenge to make sure thatI know what I'm talking about,
and that I can break down thesteps and I can,
you know, not just stand in themiddle of the arena and yell at
(32:15):
my rider. I mean, I think thatthat's how I was coached, and
I'm sure it's how a lot ofpeople were coached, and that's
not going to work for a deafwriter, but that might not work
for a lot of writers. So it'sgood to think about these
different ways. That's so true.
I really see how an entirecourse would be super valuable.
So I'm just giving you thatgentle pony nudge. Do it? Do it.
(32:37):
Well, is there anything elseyou'd like to add that I didn't
ask you,not that I can think of. No,
yeah, thank you so much forhaving me. It's delightful to
talk about horses on a beautifulevening with you. It really is.
Thank you so much. And how canpeople get a hold of you?
(32:59):
Ronnie,you can reach me at Dark Horse
therapeutics@gmail.com,I am on Instagram at Dark Horse
underscore. SLP, SLP. Likespeech language pathologist.
That's my big girl job.
I'm on Facebook as Dark Horsetherapeutics, and my website is
(33:25):
Dark Horse slp.com, and I justredid my website. I'm very
pleased with it. And so peoplecan go check out the therapeutic
services that I offer, as wellas my equine body work practice,
and talk very much about thattoday, but that's another skill
set that I have, and I kind ofinterweave that throughout my
(33:48):
teaching now. That's been a bigshift for my teaching in the
last five years or so. So yeah,those are all my places you can
find me fantastic, and I'll besure to add all of those links
to the show notes so people canfind you very easily and reach
out. Wonderfulthank you again for being here.
(34:09):
It was a pleasure to chat withyou.
Yes, thank you. You're welcome.
All right, everyone, please docheck out the show notes so you
can reach out to Ronnie andthank you so much for listening
and remember to lead withkindness for yourself and for
your horse.
May the horse be with you alwaysyou.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.