November 13, 2023 • 44 mins
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Do you ever wonder how the world of insurance is shaking up in Asia? You're in for a treat! This episode offers a deep dive into the evolving landscape of Asia's insurance industry, with insightful conversations with Theresa Blissing, Founder of the Asia InsurTech Podcast.
Theresa Blissing, a seasoned insurance professional who cut her teeth at Generali, takes us on a journey through her career, which has been steeped in insurance from childhood to adulthood and across both mature and emerging markets.
On the episode, we delve into the journey of One Degree, a Hong Kong-based InsurTech, and their innovative foray into pet insurance. We also navigate the fascinating world of Ping An, the second-largest insurer globally, and dissect its successful ventures and unique ecosystem strategy.
For all insurance or tech enthusiasts out there, this episode is a gold mine of insights and stories that promises to enrich your understanding of the industry. Its also amazing to see the uncanny similarities between the Asian and African market.
Get the Future of Insurance: Asia Rising here
Check out our free resources on InsurTech ecosystem and innovation in the African Insurance space here https://linktr.ee/insurtechbusinessseries
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Folumy (00:00):
Theresa, would you be happy to introduce yourself to
Oliver.
Theresa Blissing (00:04):
Yes, sure, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for having me.
Maybe a little bit of contact.
My name is Theresa Blissing.
I'm originally from Germany,but I have spent a decade living
in Asia Pacific.
The first time I moved to Asiawas when I was working for
Italian Insurer Generali.
It was back in 2009,.
So quite a few years ago, andthat's when I really first got
(00:26):
introduced to the insurancemarket in Asia and the different
challenges, but alsoopportunities this continent is
facing, compared to my homemarket, germany.
Today I actually live in NewYork not necessarily my choice,
but my husband is working forthe United Nations, so we
(00:48):
relocated to New York for threeyears.
And, yeah, I'm really excitedto be joining you here today and
talk a little bit about myupcoming book Well, not upcoming
, it's actually released todayso really exciting day for me.
Folumy (01:02):
Congratulations on that again, thank you, because that
was a lot of work that we sawyou put into that book.
Again, like I mentioned earlieron, it was a good read.
It was a side book, it waspacked, and the learnings from
that book that we've replicatedacross various insurance
(01:23):
businesses across the globe.
I know that your journey intothe insurance piece started from
if I'm correct, right Startedfrom when you were young,
because your parent already hadexposure to the insurance space.
So was there any point whereyou felt like I was just going
(01:46):
to continue or pull that line?
Or there was some point like no, I'm not doing insurance, my
parents have been dead on that,and they just maybe found your
way out and then came back intothe industry?
Theresa Blissing (02:02):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So I was born into an insurancefamily.
So when I was born, my parentswere running an insurance agency
from a house I grew up in.
So we were living on the secondfloor and on the first floor
there was the insurance agency.
So inevitably, insurance wasall around me Since the day I
(02:24):
was born and I remember myparents talking about the
challenges they were facingduring lunch, during dinner not
a very healthy work-life balancebut somehow I still decided to
go into insurance.
But I decided against working inthe sales area.
My dad would have locked me totake over his insurance agency.
(02:45):
He had built it with my mom andthey were running it for 40
years.
So there was certainly thathope from his side that I will
take over the insurance agency.
But it's not really my area.
I don't think I'm a goodsalesperson.
That's nothing I believe I amgood at.
(03:07):
So I decided to join Generaliand it was back in 2004 in their
like corporate life divisionand really had a great
experience working for them.
I worked 10 years for theGenerali group and had a lot of
great experiences, a lot oflessons learned in different
positions I held with thecompany, but ultimately I came
(03:27):
to this point where I askedmyself, isn't there more in life
than working for just oneinsurance carrier?
And I was also a little bitdisheartened, in a way, by the
little change that was happening, and that was back in 2015.
So before we had this wholeinsure tech wave and yeah, I
just found myself questioningthere must be more.
(03:50):
And I also started readingabout big data and insurance.
And I remember there was HenriDe Castries back then, the
Chairman and CEO of AXA, and hesaid at a conference that big
data is going to changeeverything in insurance.
And I was really intrigued andI was working for one of the
largest insurance companies inEurope and I knew that there was
(04:13):
no big data.
There was not even small datalike any insurance incumbents,
even today, facing issues withlike siloed data, et cetera.
And also from my own experience, I've worked on a major merger
project between the Germanentity of Generali and a German
insurer called Volksgesorge, andfrom that time, I still
(04:35):
remembered how difficult it isfor people to change their
behavior, adopt new ways ofworking and especially if
there's this fear of becomingredundant, right, and that's
what we talk about when we talkabout AI and data analytics.
So, yeah, long, long story short, I decided to take a break.
I went back into academia, didmy MBA with a research component
(04:59):
, so I did an academic researchstudy on the adoption of big
data in the Southeast Asianinsurance industry and that was
really my start into everythingtech and later founded the Asia
Insur Tech Podcast, worked witha bunch of great startups out of
Asia and, yeah, I have kind ofa second career in a way right
(05:20):
Like first working for anincumbent and then working on
the innovation side, and Idefinitely enjoy that and I
believe the industry as a wholechanged and also, like,
generally, I left in 2015,.
The company today is not thesame anymore, and I think that's
the case for many, manyorganizations.
So what you found?
Folumy (05:40):
out about the Asian insurance landscape.
What was like the most?
I mean, you talk about dataanalytics and then you talk
about AI, but apart from thetechnology and innovation
aspects you know, and the Asianinsurance industry landscape,
was there any other aspect ofyou know, that part of the
(06:02):
continent that then drove yourinterest?
Because, again, to say that youare not from the Asian space,
and I know that because sogenerally you're introduced into
the market space- yeah, it's agood question.
Theresa Blissing (06:16):
So, you know, coming from a very mature and
very saturated insurance marketlike Germany, right, and then
when I was with with generallyand also later, you know,
looking in the Southeast Asianinsurance industry, you find a
lot of developing and emergingcountries, right, if you're
looking at Indonesia, if you'realso looking at the Philippines,
(06:39):
vietnam, etc.
And that's also how myperception of insurance changed
in a way, because in a lot ofWestern mature countries,
insurance is just perceived as anecessary evil, it's like, you
know, just something that youneed to have.
A lot of people are aware ofthe concept of insurance, but
(07:00):
it's nothing that they reallyvalue.
I guess it's just like that'swhat you do you have insurance,
whereas in a lot of theseemerging countries that, on the
one hand, have a very lowfinancial literacy but also
insurance has a differentimportance because, after all,
insurance is what allows us totake risks.
(07:22):
That what is, you know, makeeconomies and societies
resilience right, because and Iactually talked in the book with
a company from Indonesia, koala, and they found a hardship and
he also said, like there is nogreat risk, there is no great
economy that got to this pointwithout being well insured.
So if there are bumps in theroad, you are able to recover
(07:43):
and you know losses andespecially if we are looking at
emerging markets, the value ofinsurance is different.
Also, I feel like sometimes theperception is different and I
believe there is a hugeopportunity to reshape the
narrative of insurance and notmake it this you know necessary
(08:05):
evil and something that you haveto do, but really point out how
important insurance is for theoverall society and how it can
help every individual, everycompany, to take risks and do
the things they enjoy.
So I think that was really whenI moved to Asia for the first
time with Generali and that wasthe time when Generali started
(08:27):
like Generali Filipinas,Generali Indonesia, and like
seeing these differentchallenges and how insurance is
really a force for good andthat's what these companies were
working towards.
I found that very inspiring andcompletely different to what I
have experienced in Germany.
But, with this being said, asiais not all emerging markets.
(08:49):
You find Japan, which is one ofthe oldest insurance markets in
the world.
It's also one of the largestinsurance markets and in the
book I really tried to have abalance between the emerging
countries and the challenges andopportunities they are facing,
but also looking at maturemarkets like Hong Kong, like
Singapore, like Japan, and alsoI have Ping An in the book,
(09:12):
which is one of the largestinsurance companies, and China
actually has a higher insurancepenetration than the US today.
So I really tried to have thisbalance because I think there's
lessons in all of thesedifferent stories, all of these
different markets, all of thesedifferent type of companies.
Folumy (09:30):
I mean it's sort of similar to what we currently
have in the African continent,where you have like a larger
trunk of insurance progress inSouth Africa.
You then have, like thedeveloping markets, which we
call the emerging markets, whichyou have countries like Nigeria
, for instance, kenya, orbeginning to see a lot of
(09:52):
innovation on that space, andthat's what people are, I mean,
despite being just, you know,bite-sized, but then it's
growing.
People are beginning tounderstand like the different
cultural aspects.
People are also beginning toengage regulators more often to
say that there has to be likechange in the way we've always
carried out or done insurance inthe past.
(10:13):
So I sort of enjoy, or like,the similarities that we have.
This would then bring me intodiscussions around your book.
Like I said, I couldn't getenough of it, and then we have,
you know, listeners that arewilling to hear about it.
First of all, I want you totalk about the book itself and
then we can, you know, talkabout three studies from the
(10:33):
book.
Theresa Blissing (10:34):
Yeah, sure, let me maybe start how this book
come to exist.
I mentioned briefly I startedthe Asia Insure Tech podcast.
That was together with MichaelWaetz, who was the podcast post,
and we launched in 2019.
And one of the reasons westarted that podcast was because
at that time it was like theheight of the insurer tech wave.
(10:55):
You heard a lot about what washappening in the West, like in,
you know, in the US, withlemonade and a metro mile, or in
, you know, in Europe, but therewas very little on what was
happening in Asia.
And, for reasons you alsomentioned, like in low insurance
penetration, et cetera, youcan't take a concept that works
(11:16):
in a market like the US andapply the same concept in an
emerging market Right.
So Asia really needed its ownsolutions and there were a lot
of great companies and I reallywanted to give a platform for
these companies to tell theirstories and, to you know,
discuss how insurance ischanging.
And when I started the AsiaInsure Tech podcast, I connected
(11:38):
with Brian Falchuk, who was theoriginal mastermind behind the
Future of Insurance series.
So Brian and I connected.
We had him on our show, I wason his podcast show and he then
reached out and said like hey,would you be interested to write
a book about the Asian marketand you know the experience you
(11:59):
had there and some of theamazing players we find in this
market and publish it in myseries?
So that's what we did.
So, for those who know Brian'sfirst three books so his first
book was on insurance incumbentsor insurance carriers, the
second one was on startup andthe third one, which only came
out earlier this year, is onpartnerships.
(12:19):
So for my book on Asia, I didnot want to focus on either
carriers or startups.
I really wanted to tell what Ibelieve makes Asia special, and
that is what I feel at leastaround how they market products
and how they design products.
(12:40):
You find a lot of likebite-sized insurance products.
You also find a lot ofinitiatives marketing insurance
to the younger generation,because if you look at the
country like Indonesia, whereyou have 50% of the population
being under the age of 30.
So these are all people growingup as digital natives, right,
and at the same time, you havevery low insurance penetration.
(13:02):
So I find this very interestinghow some of the players are
market to a young and tech savvypopulation, but maybe with low
financial literacy.
So what I did.
I have eight different companiesfeatured case studies in the
book and they really range fromdeveloped markets like Hong Kong
, singapore, japan, china, aswell with Ping An, but I also
(13:25):
have examples of more likeemerging markets, with India,
with Indonesia through degreeMalaysia.
So, yeah, really tried to givethat diversity.
And also for people who havenever worked in Asia, my aim was
to really, even if you havenever worked in that region, if
you have never done any researchon the market, the case studies
(13:47):
are designed in a way that youalso get a feeling for the
country.
What is it that they arestruggling with?
And I hope for me, for you, itwas also easy to understand and
get a feeling for what is thiscountry like in a nutshell, and
why have these organizationsdecided to operate in a certain
way and capture the market inthe way they did?
(14:11):
Asia, just like Africa, it's ahuge continent.
There are huge differences,culturally, regulatory
differences, et cetera, butstill there are some overarching
lessons learned and regardlessin which market you are
operating, those apply.
Folumy (14:26):
Let me know what case studies that you find
interesting and which ones doyou want to dive into Reading
the book sort of foundinteresting one degree and this
comes from the regulatory pointof view and how they were able
to collaborate with theregulators to then design and to
help them understand bettertheir market, like the Hong Kong
(14:48):
market.
They were also able to then getlike a virtual insurance
license, which for some marketsAfrican markets for instance and
we don't have this sort ofinnovation and that sort of
stood up for me to see how do weable to work on the end with
(15:10):
the regulator and do we able toget that license, albeit
difficult at the initial stage.
Theresa Blissing (15:17):
Yes, yes, sure .
No, it's a great story and it'sjust.
It's an example of what ispossible if you're really
passionate about something andreally see an opportunity.
So Hong Kong is a very smallmarket.
They have, I think, around likesix, seven million people
(15:39):
comparatively small populationif you are selling insurance and
we all know insurance is anumber game, right.
But Hong Kong has don't knowthe exact number, but around
like a hundred licensed insurers, which is a lot in a market
that has such a small population.
So what happened was that theregulator said okay, we are not
(16:00):
issuing any more insurancelicenses, like we have already
enough insurance carriers in thecountry, we are not issuing any
new licenses.
And then there came along AlvinKwok and Alex Leung, the
founders of One Degree, and theywere really inspired all the
digitization and they took a lotof inspiration actually from
(16:22):
the US market and thoughtthere's a huge opportunity to
digitize in the Hong Kong market.
So initially they thought theywould start an insured tech,
maybe just on the distributionside, but really quickly.
When talking about the visionthey had, they realized they
wanted to be in control ofproduct design and they wanted
(16:44):
to be able to react to marketchanges quickly, because that is
something a lot of insuranceincumbents are struggling with,
like adapt to change and reallyembrace change and react to
market changes and there are alot of different reasons for
that, but that was somethingthat was very important to the
(17:05):
founders of One Degree.
So they came to the conclusionthat they really wanted to have
a license and operate as aninsurance area instead of
partnering with an insurer andthen be reliant on them for
making changes and not being infull control.
So what they did?
They started working with theregulator in Hong Kong and
pointing out all thedigitization efforts that were
(17:28):
happening in Western countriesand, at the same time, the
regulator was also thinkingabout making changes to the Hong
Kong market Because, despite itbeing a very advanced and
saturated market, onlinedistribution of insurance is
still really, really low.
So, after the conversationsthey had and the inspiration the
(17:50):
regulator took from the team atOne Degree and the stories
they're shared and again areminder of how powerful
storytelling can be Like sharingthese examples and inspiring
not only the founding team ofOne Degree but also the
regulator in Hong Kong to saylike hey, there's actually an
(18:11):
opportunity in this market andwe have to make that happen.
So the regulator and othercompanies were pushing for that
as well established a newinsurance license, a virtual
insurance license.
What does that mean?
Holders of a virtual insurancelicense are only allowed to
distribute insurance usingdigital channels.
(18:33):
So they can't have an agencyforce, they can't work with
brokers that are selling theirproducts, they really can only
go direct to consumers throughtheir digital channels, and that
was something that one degreewas also very passionate about.
I guess if they had the choice,they probably would appreciate
(18:53):
if they can also use agencyforce and other distribution
channels, but that was what theywere focusing on.
So, yeah, when the regulatorannounced that there's going to
be this virtual insurancelicense, they applied for that.
Then everyone who has lookedinto starting an insurance
carrier will agree how difficultit is.
(19:14):
Like you know, set aside thesituation that one degree found
itself in in Hong Kong, where,at the point when they had this
idea, there was actually nopossibility to obtain a license.
The only way to get into themarket would be to acquire an
existing insurance carrier.
But they still pushed for it.
And then, when it becamepossible, you still have a lot
(19:38):
of other challenges to overcome,right, the capital requirement,
so you have to raise money as astartup, which there are
statistics that 90% of startupsfail.
Yet you are looking to raise,you know, huge amounts of
capital to fulfill the capitalrequirements to be registered as
a license insurer.
(19:58):
And what was also surprising, ina way, was that the
requirements the insuranceauthority in Hong Kong so the
regulator in Hong Kongestablished for this new license
, even though they were onlyallowed to sell online, were the
same requirements as they hadbefore for, like a traditional
carrier license, and on top ofthat, they required additional
(20:22):
cybersecurity measurementsbecause you know the company
would operate solely online.
So, even if it's not afull-fledged license, the
requirements to get it are evenhigher than they used to be when
they were still able to gettraditional carrier licenses,
and took the team several yearsand hundreds of meetings with
(20:47):
investors and they worked reallyclose with the regulator also
to understand.
You know what are theserequirements, what is like the
system readiness, what terms ofexperts they need to have on
board for the regulator to grantthat license.
And there's a good reason whyregulators are that careful and
have these strict requirementsbecause they want to make sure
(21:09):
that the company will besustainable in the long run and
will not fall than people whorelied on those companies where
they say keeping and you knowtheir insurances are not left in
the dark in a way.
So really difficult to get aninsurance carrier license,
really expensive.
(21:30):
But still, I think the exampleof one degree shows if you're
really seeing opportunity and ifyou work together with the
regulator and if you areembracing change, embracing,
pivoting to find that spot thatworks.
And one degree today is doingreally well.
They have actually started withpet insurance in Hong Kong, a
(21:52):
line of business that was in themarket for several years yet
already, and a lot of them, alot of people working in that
space told them, like you know,we don't see a lot of
opportunity there, but onedegree identified that it was
not marketed right.
So they were able to come inand disrupt the market and even
grow the market for the overallinsurance industry in Hong Kong
(22:15):
by, you know, putting a focus onthat and putting a new twist
and, you know, also lookingproduct design.
You know the reason theydecided to go down that
difficult road of studying inlicense insurance carrier in the
first place so that control onunderwriting, on pricing etc.
Is what made them reallysuccessful in that space.
And then you know consequentlythey added other businesses as
(22:39):
well.
Folumy (22:40):
The reason why I wanted us to dive into one degree is
also because, like you said, forthe Hong Kong market, back in
Nigeria as well, you are notable to purchase or obtain new
licenses from the regulators.
You either have to, you know,merge or acquire an existing
insurance organization orcompany.
This has been quite difficultfor, like insha texts that are
(23:04):
looking to innovate and to whatit is is insha text, then would
have to maybe get like an agencylicense or an aggregated
license and then come on boardor a macro insurance license,
whichever are the cases, andthen a partner with existing
insurance organizations.
So this, in a way, it'sactually a new innovative
(23:25):
approach to looking at inshatext that are looking to
underwrite their own insurancethemselves and, you know, carry
on that risk and distribute theway or, however they want to,
you know, via, like you know,virtual channels.
So, again, this is one way thatyou know keeps home.
Theresa Blissing (23:42):
Want to emphasize something right.
Just because regulation sayssomething is not possible should
not necessarily be ashowstopper.
If you really see value and ifyou, the most important thing is
, is that something that thepeople would like and would?
Because, at the end, the roleof the regulator is to make sure
(24:03):
that consumers are protected.
But if this is something thatconsumers are benefiting from,
you know you can still go.
And I think a lot of issuesaround innovation and insurance
has been that insurancecompanies have been hiding
behind regulations that like, oh, we would love to do something,
but we can't.
You know it's a shame, but theregulator won't allow us.
(24:23):
So you know we don't bother.
But and that's, I think, howinshotex around the globe has
really reshaped this narrativeon you know, working with the
regulator and you can.
You have seen this in otherareas as well.
Right, like when Uber firstcame up If you can show the
regulator that there's anopportunity and that consumers
will benefit from it, thenthere's no reason why you can't
(24:47):
change regulation.
Folumy (24:48):
Absolutely, absolutely.
We're just going to move on toAdita, because Adita really like
deciding your book is like thefuture of insurance.
I enjoyed, or I love, theirbusiness model, as well as the
business strategy.
And then customer sensitivityis one key factor that I think a
(25:09):
lot of people miss out on,especially when they're entering
a market.
Innovation is amazing,technology is great.
Once you miss that customerneed and one for a product, that
can change the entire cost ofthe business.
Theresa Blissing (25:24):
So if you just walk us through Adita, focusing
on this customer sensitivity aswell as technology, Okay, sure,
yeah, actually I was debatingand I explained in the chapter
why I was debating with myselfif I should feature Habitto,
because Habitto they justlaunched in June of this year in
Japan.
Like when I had the firstinterviews with them they were
(25:48):
not even live yet.
And then the question is do youfeature such an early stage
startup where you don't know ifthey will make it right?
Like what I said earlier, 90%of startups fail.
But I felt it was a really goodaddition to the book because it
shows the cycle of innovation.
So Samantha Jotti, the founderof Habitio and the CEO, she
(26:13):
originally worked in Europe,originally from Italy, worked in
the UK, worked in the US andthen got the opportunity to come
to Asia and work at the deputyCEO for SingLife.
So SingLife was the first newlife insurance company in
Singapore and actually thefounder of SingLife wrote the
(26:33):
forward to my book, walter theOdor.
So, sam, she worked with Walterat SingLife and what they have
built was a whole product whichis not an insurance component
but basically a payment debitcard like a banking stack,
essentially to used this as apull product and designed it as
(26:56):
a digital first, mobile first.
That's what really Sam wasfocusing on when she came to
join SingLife.
Singlife later acquired AvivaSingapore, which is just crazy
in my opinion.
So a company that started in2017, I think it was in 2020,
acquired Aviva Singapore, whichwas much larger than them, and
(27:21):
they designed a very interestingway to be able to do that
acquisition, and Walter speaksin the forward about that.
So, after SingLife had acquiredAviva Singapore the biggest
insurance deal in Singapore'shistory Sam and also Walter and
some others from the team theyleft SingLife and Walter started
(27:43):
a new company called ChocolateFinance in Singapore.
But Sam took a lot of thelessons she learned from working
at SingLife, but alsothroughout her career, and
wanted to point that at a muchbigger market, and that's when
they came to Japan.
Now, japan is also a reallydifficult market to tap into,
(28:06):
especially if you are aforeigner, because it's very
insulated.
Language barrier is a thing,cultural differences is a thing,
and also Japan is a very maledominated industry.
So you know, number one amazingthat Sam, as a foreigner,
started this company in Japanand what they were aiming for is
(28:30):
.
So Japan is the country in theworld with the highest median
age.
I believe it's 48,.
They have a huge issue with theaging population, and what is
also the case is that I thinkover 50% of the country's wealth
is with people that are 65years and older.
So naturally, financialinstitutions have been focusing
(28:53):
on this, like older demographic,and agency distribution is like
the number one distributionchannel in Japan.
But they have lost sight of theyounger generation, like
millennials.
And so what Havito did whenthey decided to go into the
Japanese market, they did a lotof research and they also talked
(29:13):
to psychologists, and what theydiscovered is that the younger
generation in Japan has a lot offinancial anxiety because, you
know again, an aging populationputs a lot of pressure on any
society when it comes toretirement, etc.
So a lot of people age 30, theyare really worried if they can
(29:35):
afford to retire, you know, ifthey will be able to take care
of their aging parents, if theywill be able to afford education
for their kids, etc.
So this is when Havito came in,and they are operating under a
new license that was rolled outby the regulator.
So in this case, it was reallya regulatory opening that
(29:56):
enabled them to start thatbusiness model in Japan.
So what they are doing is theyare able, under this new license
, to distribute a range offinancial products, so banking
products, management products,but also insurance products.
Now, their pull product verymuch to what they have
experienced or built withSingLife in Singapore was that
(30:19):
they have a bank account with aleading interest rate.
So that is what is pullingcustomers in, because they want
to get that bank account wherethey can get the most interest
for their money.
And, interestingly enough, thecompany is financing these high
interest rates with theircustomer acquisition costs,
which, in the long run, is notsustainable.
(30:40):
But that is why they reallyneed to evolve this model and
start upselling, cross-sellingother products, and that is when
insurance comes in.
Right, and they have builtessentially a mobile-first
digital experience, but theystill have human financial
advisors.
So people have the opportunityto talk to financial advisors,
(31:03):
but in a digital manner.
They have an app, they can textwith their advisor, they can
have video calls, etc.
I think that is what is reallypowerful about Habito.
They have the technology andthey have a large emphasis on
technology, because that's alsowhat makes the business model
scalable, but at the same time,they have that human component,
(31:24):
that empathy, that talking topsychologists about what is it
that people are fearing when itcomes to financial freedom right
and really combine this in ameaningful way.
So, technology to make iteasily accessible, efficient,
great user journey, but stillhave that human component.
(31:46):
Because at least when it comesto more complex insurance
products like life insurance,health insurance, I think most
of all still want to talk to ahuman person.
But maybe the youngergeneration does not want to
engage with an agent, arrange ameeting, having them come to
your home, and it might notcater to the younger generation
(32:07):
and that's really what Habito isdoing.
Folumy (32:10):
It was quite interesting because, looking at the aging
population as well, for theshift in demographic, I think
this is also one that isreplicated as well in Africa.
You have the more vibrantyouths within the age range I
think we have the youth vibrancyfrom about mid-20s to three,
(32:31):
all the way to like 35.
And this is like the largertrunk of the population size,
right.
And then we have the old money.
We have understood financialliteracy, the private group with
financial literacy, sincethey're just starting out,
probably be on the lookout forHabito and see how they are able
to then upscale with thisbusiness model.
(32:54):
I think it's all in compactingand, yeah, one of the very
future of insurance.
Yeah, correct, you just dippedthat into Ping An, and the
reason why we also wanted tohave a view at Ping An is
because I'm just going to givelike sort of an insight into
what we currently have forexisting events.
I mean, I work for AXA, mypartner also works for AXA, so
(33:18):
this just sort of touched onright.
We've had financial institutionsor we've had financial
conglomerates back home whereyou have people dealing in the
financial services, talkingabout securities, you're talking
about banking, you're talkingabout insurance, and then you're
talking about maybe wealth orpensions and all of that, but
(33:41):
there is no synergy or there isno integration into that
ecosystem.
So you just have people.
Yeah, we are like a group, so Ilike the group, but then you
don't have that cross-selling,up-selling, you don't have a
ecosystem that has been createdover time and then technology
also is a bigger part of it.
(34:02):
I just want to use touch-basedon how Pingan has been able to
develop that ecosystem withscaling vertically, also
establishing their own start-uplike good doctor, for instance,
and how they've been able toleverage on technology through
them.
You know, like I don't want tosay distraught, but that's
pretty much what they've done.
Theresa Blissing (34:23):
I was really, really excited that I got the
opportunity to talk to thePingan team and completely to
Jonathan Larson, who is theChief Innovation Officer on
Pingan and also the CEO of theGlobal Voyager Fund.
So Pingan only started in 1988.
And when Pingan started inChina, they were hardly any
(34:44):
privately owned cars.
Today, pingan is the largestmotor insurer in the world.
So companies like AXA, who havebeen around for, you know, over
a century and who are alsooperating in China right, like a
lot of people say, yeah, butChina is a big market yet.
But AXA is also operating inChina and in general, it is a
(35:05):
lot of these big internationalcompanies, but Pingan is really
a giant amongst giants.
It's the second largest insurerin the world today.
So how did they get to that?
And I think one of the reasonsthey have been so successful is
to, in a way, preserve theirentrepreneurial spirit and to be
(35:26):
able to connect differentbusinesses in a meaningful way,
like you mentioned, like youknow how they grow horizontally.
So some of you might have heardabout the Pingan ecosystem
strategy.
So Pingan is not only aninsurance company, but they have
launched different venturesthat are not necessarily
directly connected to insurance.
(35:47):
You just mentioned Pingan GoodDoctor.
So Pingan Good Doctor is avirtual clinic and health care
service in China.
When they first started it andthat is, I think, what Pingan is
doing really well like whenthey start a new venture, they
really treat it as a start.
So a lot of insurers who haveembarked on corporate venture
(36:10):
building what they do is theystaff such companies or such
ventures with people from withinthe organization, like the head
of IT is now also running thattech venture, and that is often
difficult because running astartup is very different to
running an established insurancecompany.
(36:31):
It has a different mindset, ithas different challenges and
also, to be able to attract theright talent, it is better to
really have it separate, andthat is what Pingan did Like.
They created a separate venture, they got investors, they hired
a team, not from the insuranceincumbent, but a lot of them
were actually coming fromAlibaba, which had started in
(36:54):
China as a digital platform, andinitially Pingan was helping
Pingan Good Doctor to scale bytelling their insurance clients
about this new digital healthoffering.
But what has happened now overtime and Pingan Good Doctor is
just one example there's alsoAutoHome, which is like one stop
(37:15):
shop for everything.
So what is happening now isthat Pingan gets 35% of its new
business from its ecosystempartner.
So people who are like on thePingan Good Doctor platform or
people who are users of theAutoHome company right, so they
(37:36):
are able to use this as a funnelto then attract them to also
buy insurance products.
But again, what is remarkable isnot that they set it up with
the idea of okay, this is goingto be another funnel for
insurance.
I think that is where a lot ofinsurance companies are failing.
Ping An really set it up as anindependent business with
(38:00):
independent revenue goals, etcetera.
Ping An Good Doctor today is alisted company, but then
connecting it in a meaningfulway and that can go in different
perspectives, right.
Like when Pingan Good Doctorfirst started, it was Ping An
Insurance that supported Ping AnGood Doctor to get their first
users, but then after a whilethe effect reversed.
(38:23):
So now Ping An Good Doctor isoperating as kind of a funnel
for new insurance clients forPing An.
So that is really impressive.
What is also impressive is thatPing An defines itself as a
technology first company.
So they have a huge emphasis ontechnology.
But what they are also doing isthey are not only keeping the
(38:45):
technology to themselves, andthat is again something a lot of
the big insurance companies aredoing Like they develop their
own tech and they see it astheir competitive advantage.
But the reality is developing astate-of-the-art tax debt is
really expensive becausetechnology evolves so rapidly if
you just look at the rise ofchat GPT in this year alone.
(39:06):
So you constantly need toupdate it so it doesn't become a
legacy and it stays top of theart and what Pingan is doing.
They are actually alsoexporting their technology.
So in the book there is anexample that through their
global Voyager Fund, they havetaken a stake in a US startup
(39:27):
called Snapsheak.
So they are working in the USmarket when it comes to motor.
Now Snapsheak is working with,I believe, seven out of the top
10 motor insurers in the US.
Now, with Pingan's investmentin the company, they also
started using some of theirvisual flames technology they
(39:49):
have developed in China anddeploy it with Snapsheak in the
US.
So arguably, through thatpartnership and through the
strategic investment, they areworking in the disguise of
Snapsheak with some of thelargest insurance players in the
US market.
This is not only great becausethey were able to monetize their
(40:10):
tech stuff, which enables themto then spend more money on tech
innovation, but it also helpsthem to improve the model,
because everyone who is familiarwith AI and machine learning
the more data you feed into analgorithm, the better it gets.
Then you can argue that you havemaybe different cars in the US
(40:33):
than compared to what you havein China.
By adding more variety to themodel, more data to the model,
you improve it, which then PingAn in China is again benefiting
from.
It's really unique how Ping Anhas built this range of
different companies that areoperating in different areas,
like Auto Home, good Doctor, butalso the tech stack they have
(40:56):
built.
Wherever there is anopportunity to monetize their
technology or just build a newbusiness model in itself, they
are jumping it, and it doesn'tneed to be directly related to
insurance.
It's not about guiding your owninnovation and seeing it at a
competitive advantage, butseeing the competitive advantage
(41:16):
and expanding horizontally andalso monetize different parts in
different ways.
That is what is really uniqueand probably at least one of the
reasons why Ping An is todaysecond largest insurer in the
world.
Folumy (41:31):
Amazing.
I like the fact that, in thewords of the CCO for AXA who,
would say that we should becoopetitive rather than engaging
competitions, and that'scollaboration with competitions.
I think that's what Ping An hasbeen able to do with their
technology infrastructure.
I think that's just the way togo.
(41:51):
If you just talk about wherepeople can get the book and how
they could access you, whatmedia platforms you are really
on for other discussions aroundthe book?
Theresa Blissing (42:04):
Yeah, sure, the book is actually called the
Future of Insurance, volume 4,because it's a sports book in
the Future of Insurance seriesand then Asia Rising.
So if you go to Amazon, all theAmazon stores have the
paperback and hardcover issue ofthe book.
There's also an Amazon Audibleaudiobook which I recorded,
(42:25):
which was, frankly, probably themost difficult in the whole
bookwriting experience, but,yeah, and there's also a Kindle
e-book version.
Just search for the Future ofInsurance, asia Rising, or just
search for my name.
It's actually a very uniquename.
That's also the reason why Idid not take my husband's last
(42:46):
name, theresa Blessing.
There it seems to be only onein the world which is me.
So, yeah, if you want toconnect with me on LinkedIn,
instagram, feel free to send aconnection request.
Thank you very much.
Folumy (42:58):
Theresa for coming to this session.
Theresa Blissing (43:01):
Thank you so Folumy for having me Also on the
day of the release of my book.
Thank you so much.
I really love chatting with you.
Theresa, would you be happy to introduce yourself to
Oliver.
Theresa Blissing (00:04):
Yes, sure, thank you.
Thank you for having me.
Thank you so much for having me.
Maybe a little bit of contact.
My name is Theresa Blissing.
I'm originally from Germany,but I have spent a decade living
in Asia Pacific.
The first time I moved to Asiawas when I was working for
Italian Insurer Generali.
It was back in 2009,.
So quite a few years ago, andthat's when I really first got
(00:26):
introduced to the insurancemarket in Asia and the different
challenges, but alsoopportunities this continent is
facing, compared to my homemarket, germany.
Today I actually live in NewYork not necessarily my choice,
but my husband is working forthe United Nations, so we
(00:48):
relocated to New York for threeyears.
And, yeah, I'm really excitedto be joining you here today and
talk a little bit about myupcoming book Well, not upcoming
, it's actually released todayso really exciting day for me.
Folumy (01:02):
Congratulations on that again, thank you, because that
was a lot of work that we sawyou put into that book.
Again, like I mentioned earlieron, it was a good read.
It was a side book, it waspacked, and the learnings from
that book that we've replicatedacross various insurance
(01:23):
businesses across the globe.
I know that your journey intothe insurance piece started from
if I'm correct, right Startedfrom when you were young,
because your parent already hadexposure to the insurance space.
So was there any point whereyou felt like I was just going
(01:46):
to continue or pull that line?
Or there was some point like no, I'm not doing insurance, my
parents have been dead on that,and they just maybe found your
way out and then came back intothe industry?
Theresa Blissing (02:02):
Yeah, that's a good question.
So I was born into an insurancefamily.
So when I was born, my parentswere running an insurance agency
from a house I grew up in.
So we were living on the secondfloor and on the first floor
there was the insurance agency.
So inevitably, insurance wasall around me Since the day I
(02:24):
was born and I remember myparents talking about the
challenges they were facingduring lunch, during dinner not
a very healthy work-life balancebut somehow I still decided to
go into insurance.
But I decided against working inthe sales area.
My dad would have locked me totake over his insurance agency.
(02:45):
He had built it with my mom andthey were running it for 40
years.
So there was certainly thathope from his side that I will
take over the insurance agency.
But it's not really my area.
I don't think I'm a goodsalesperson.
That's nothing I believe I amgood at.
(03:07):
So I decided to join Generaliand it was back in 2004 in their
like corporate life divisionand really had a great
experience working for them.
I worked 10 years for theGenerali group and had a lot of
great experiences, a lot oflessons learned in different
positions I held with thecompany, but ultimately I came
(03:27):
to this point where I askedmyself, isn't there more in life
than working for just oneinsurance carrier?
And I was also a little bitdisheartened, in a way, by the
little change that was happening, and that was back in 2015.
So before we had this wholeinsure tech wave and yeah, I
just found myself questioningthere must be more.
(03:50):
And I also started readingabout big data and insurance.
And I remember there was HenriDe Castries back then, the
Chairman and CEO of AXA, and hesaid at a conference that big
data is going to changeeverything in insurance.
And I was really intrigued andI was working for one of the
largest insurance companies inEurope and I knew that there was
(04:13):
no big data.
There was not even small datalike any insurance incumbents,
even today, facing issues withlike siloed data, et cetera.
And also from my own experience, I've worked on a major merger
project between the Germanentity of Generali and a German
insurer called Volksgesorge, andfrom that time, I still
(04:35):
remembered how difficult it isfor people to change their
behavior, adopt new ways ofworking and especially if
there's this fear of becomingredundant, right, and that's
what we talk about when we talkabout AI and data analytics.
So, yeah, long, long story short, I decided to take a break.
I went back into academia, didmy MBA with a research component
(04:59):
, so I did an academic researchstudy on the adoption of big
data in the Southeast Asianinsurance industry and that was
really my start into everythingtech and later founded the Asia
Insur Tech Podcast, worked witha bunch of great startups out of
Asia and, yeah, I have kind ofa second career in a way right
(05:20):
Like first working for anincumbent and then working on
the innovation side, and Idefinitely enjoy that and I
believe the industry as a wholechanged and also, like,
generally, I left in 2015,.
The company today is not thesame anymore, and I think that's
the case for many, manyorganizations.
So what you found?
Folumy (05:40):
out about the Asian insurance landscape.
What was like the most?
I mean, you talk about dataanalytics and then you talk
about AI, but apart from thetechnology and innovation
aspects you know, and the Asianinsurance industry landscape,
was there any other aspect ofyou know, that part of the
(06:02):
continent that then drove yourinterest?
Because, again, to say that youare not from the Asian space,
and I know that because sogenerally you're introduced into
the market space- yeah, it's agood question.
Theresa Blissing (06:16):
So, you know, coming from a very mature and
very saturated insurance marketlike Germany, right, and then
when I was with with generallyand also later, you know,
looking in the Southeast Asianinsurance industry, you find a
lot of developing and emergingcountries, right, if you're
looking at Indonesia, if you'realso looking at the Philippines,
(06:39):
vietnam, etc.
And that's also how myperception of insurance changed
in a way, because in a lot ofWestern mature countries,
insurance is just perceived as anecessary evil, it's like, you
know, just something that youneed to have.
A lot of people are aware ofthe concept of insurance, but
(07:00):
it's nothing that they reallyvalue.
I guess it's just like that'swhat you do you have insurance,
whereas in a lot of theseemerging countries that, on the
one hand, have a very lowfinancial literacy but also
insurance has a differentimportance because, after all,
insurance is what allows us totake risks.
(07:22):
That what is, you know, makeeconomies and societies
resilience right, because and Iactually talked in the book with
a company from Indonesia, koala, and they found a hardship and
he also said, like there is nogreat risk, there is no great
economy that got to this pointwithout being well insured.
So if there are bumps in theroad, you are able to recover
(07:43):
and you know losses andespecially if we are looking at
emerging markets, the value ofinsurance is different.
Also, I feel like sometimes theperception is different and I
believe there is a hugeopportunity to reshape the
narrative of insurance and notmake it this you know necessary
(08:05):
evil and something that you haveto do, but really point out how
important insurance is for theoverall society and how it can
help every individual, everycompany, to take risks and do
the things they enjoy.
So I think that was really whenI moved to Asia for the first
time with Generali and that wasthe time when Generali started
(08:27):
like Generali Filipinas,Generali Indonesia, and like
seeing these differentchallenges and how insurance is
really a force for good andthat's what these companies were
working towards.
I found that very inspiring andcompletely different to what I
have experienced in Germany.
But, with this being said, asiais not all emerging markets.
(08:49):
You find Japan, which is one ofthe oldest insurance markets in
the world.
It's also one of the largestinsurance markets and in the
book I really tried to have abalance between the emerging
countries and the challenges andopportunities they are facing,
but also looking at maturemarkets like Hong Kong, like
Singapore, like Japan, and alsoI have Ping An in the book,
(09:12):
which is one of the largestinsurance companies, and China
actually has a higher insurancepenetration than the US today.
So I really tried to have thisbalance because I think there's
lessons in all of thesedifferent stories, all of these
different markets, all of thesedifferent type of companies.
Folumy (09:30):
I mean it's sort of similar to what we currently
have in the African continent,where you have like a larger
trunk of insurance progress inSouth Africa.
You then have, like thedeveloping markets, which we
call the emerging markets, whichyou have countries like Nigeria
, for instance, kenya, orbeginning to see a lot of
(09:52):
innovation on that space, andthat's what people are, I mean,
despite being just, you know,bite-sized, but then it's
growing.
People are beginning tounderstand like the different
cultural aspects.
People are also beginning toengage regulators more often to
say that there has to be likechange in the way we've always
carried out or done insurance inthe past.
(10:13):
So I sort of enjoy, or like,the similarities that we have.
This would then bring me intodiscussions around your book.
Like I said, I couldn't getenough of it, and then we have,
you know, listeners that arewilling to hear about it.
First of all, I want you totalk about the book itself and
then we can, you know, talkabout three studies from the
(10:33):
book.
Theresa Blissing (10:34):
Yeah, sure, let me maybe start how this book
come to exist.
I mentioned briefly I startedthe Asia Insure Tech podcast.
That was together with MichaelWaetz, who was the podcast post,
and we launched in 2019.
And one of the reasons westarted that podcast was because
at that time it was like theheight of the insurer tech wave.
(10:55):
You heard a lot about what washappening in the West, like in,
you know, in the US, withlemonade and a metro mile, or in
, you know, in Europe, but therewas very little on what was
happening in Asia.
And, for reasons you alsomentioned, like in low insurance
penetration, et cetera, youcan't take a concept that works
(11:16):
in a market like the US andapply the same concept in an
emerging market Right.
So Asia really needed its ownsolutions and there were a lot
of great companies and I reallywanted to give a platform for
these companies to tell theirstories and, to you know,
discuss how insurance ischanging.
And when I started the AsiaInsure Tech podcast, I connected
(11:38):
with Brian Falchuk, who was theoriginal mastermind behind the
Future of Insurance series.
So Brian and I connected.
We had him on our show, I wason his podcast show and he then
reached out and said like hey,would you be interested to write
a book about the Asian marketand you know the experience you
(11:59):
had there and some of theamazing players we find in this
market and publish it in myseries?
So that's what we did.
So, for those who know Brian'sfirst three books so his first
book was on insurance incumbentsor insurance carriers, the
second one was on startup andthe third one, which only came
out earlier this year, is onpartnerships.
(12:19):
So for my book on Asia, I didnot want to focus on either
carriers or startups.
I really wanted to tell what Ibelieve makes Asia special, and
that is what I feel at leastaround how they market products
and how they design products.
(12:40):
You find a lot of likebite-sized insurance products.
You also find a lot ofinitiatives marketing insurance
to the younger generation,because if you look at the
country like Indonesia, whereyou have 50% of the population
being under the age of 30.
So these are all people growingup as digital natives, right,
and at the same time, you havevery low insurance penetration.
(13:02):
So I find this very interestinghow some of the players are
market to a young and tech savvypopulation, but maybe with low
financial literacy.
So what I did.
I have eight different companiesfeatured case studies in the
book and they really range fromdeveloped markets like Hong Kong
, singapore, japan, china, aswell with Ping An, but I also
(13:25):
have examples of more likeemerging markets, with India,
with Indonesia through degreeMalaysia.
So, yeah, really tried to givethat diversity.
And also for people who havenever worked in Asia, my aim was
to really, even if you havenever worked in that region, if
you have never done any researchon the market, the case studies
(13:47):
are designed in a way that youalso get a feeling for the
country.
What is it that they arestruggling with?
And I hope for me, for you, itwas also easy to understand and
get a feeling for what is thiscountry like in a nutshell, and
why have these organizationsdecided to operate in a certain
way and capture the market inthe way they did?
(14:11):
Asia, just like Africa, it's ahuge continent.
There are huge differences,culturally, regulatory
differences, et cetera, butstill there are some overarching
lessons learned and regardlessin which market you are
operating, those apply.
Folumy (14:26):
Let me know what case studies that you find
interesting and which ones doyou want to dive into Reading
the book sort of foundinteresting one degree and this
comes from the regulatory pointof view and how they were able
to collaborate with theregulators to then design and to
help them understand bettertheir market, like the Hong Kong
(14:48):
market.
They were also able to then getlike a virtual insurance
license, which for some marketsAfrican markets for instance and
we don't have this sort ofinnovation and that sort of
stood up for me to see how do weable to work on the end with
(15:10):
the regulator and do we able toget that license, albeit
difficult at the initial stage.
Theresa Blissing (15:17):
Yes, yes, sure .
No, it's a great story and it'sjust.
It's an example of what ispossible if you're really
passionate about something andreally see an opportunity.
So Hong Kong is a very smallmarket.
They have, I think, around likesix, seven million people
(15:39):
comparatively small populationif you are selling insurance and
we all know insurance is anumber game, right.
But Hong Kong has don't knowthe exact number, but around
like a hundred licensed insurers, which is a lot in a market
that has such a small population.
So what happened was that theregulator said okay, we are not
(16:00):
issuing any more insurancelicenses, like we have already
enough insurance carriers in thecountry, we are not issuing any
new licenses.
And then there came along AlvinKwok and Alex Leung, the
founders of One Degree, and theywere really inspired all the
digitization and they took a lotof inspiration actually from
(16:22):
the US market and thoughtthere's a huge opportunity to
digitize in the Hong Kong market.
So initially they thought theywould start an insured tech,
maybe just on the distributionside, but really quickly.
When talking about the visionthey had, they realized they
wanted to be in control ofproduct design and they wanted
(16:44):
to be able to react to marketchanges quickly, because that is
something a lot of insuranceincumbents are struggling with,
like adapt to change and reallyembrace change and react to
market changes and there are alot of different reasons for
that, but that was somethingthat was very important to the
(17:05):
founders of One Degree.
So they came to the conclusionthat they really wanted to have
a license and operate as aninsurance area instead of
partnering with an insurer andthen be reliant on them for
making changes and not being infull control.
So what they did?
They started working with theregulator in Hong Kong and
pointing out all thedigitization efforts that were
(17:28):
happening in Western countriesand, at the same time, the
regulator was also thinkingabout making changes to the Hong
Kong market Because, despite itbeing a very advanced and
saturated market, onlinedistribution of insurance is
still really, really low.
So, after the conversationsthey had and the inspiration the
(17:50):
regulator took from the team atOne Degree and the stories
they're shared and again areminder of how powerful
storytelling can be Like sharingthese examples and inspiring
not only the founding team ofOne Degree but also the
regulator in Hong Kong to saylike hey, there's actually an
(18:11):
opportunity in this market andwe have to make that happen.
So the regulator and othercompanies were pushing for that
as well established a newinsurance license, a virtual
insurance license.
What does that mean?
Holders of a virtual insurancelicense are only allowed to
distribute insurance usingdigital channels.
(18:33):
So they can't have an agencyforce, they can't work with
brokers that are selling theirproducts, they really can only
go direct to consumers throughtheir digital channels, and that
was something that one degreewas also very passionate about.
I guess if they had the choice,they probably would appreciate
(18:53):
if they can also use agencyforce and other distribution
channels, but that was what theywere focusing on.
So, yeah, when the regulatorannounced that there's going to
be this virtual insurancelicense, they applied for that.
Then everyone who has lookedinto starting an insurance
carrier will agree how difficultit is.
(19:14):
Like you know, set aside thesituation that one degree found
itself in in Hong Kong, where,at the point when they had this
idea, there was actually nopossibility to obtain a license.
The only way to get into themarket would be to acquire an
existing insurance carrier.
But they still pushed for it.
And then, when it becamepossible, you still have a lot
(19:38):
of other challenges to overcome,right, the capital requirement,
so you have to raise money as astartup, which there are
statistics that 90% of startupsfail.
Yet you are looking to raise,you know, huge amounts of
capital to fulfill the capitalrequirements to be registered as
a license insurer.
(19:58):
And what was also surprising, ina way, was that the
requirements the insuranceauthority in Hong Kong so the
regulator in Hong Kongestablished for this new license
, even though they were onlyallowed to sell online, were the
same requirements as they hadbefore for, like a traditional
carrier license, and on top ofthat, they required additional
(20:22):
cybersecurity measurementsbecause you know the company
would operate solely online.
So, even if it's not afull-fledged license, the
requirements to get it are evenhigher than they used to be when
they were still able to gettraditional carrier licenses,
and took the team several yearsand hundreds of meetings with
(20:47):
investors and they worked reallyclose with the regulator also
to understand.
You know what are theserequirements, what is like the
system readiness, what terms ofexperts they need to have on
board for the regulator to grantthat license.
And there's a good reason whyregulators are that careful and
have these strict requirementsbecause they want to make sure
(21:09):
that the company will besustainable in the long run and
will not fall than people whorelied on those companies where
they say keeping and you knowtheir insurances are not left in
the dark in a way.
So really difficult to get aninsurance carrier license,
really expensive.
(21:30):
But still, I think the exampleof one degree shows if you're
really seeing opportunity and ifyou work together with the
regulator and if you areembracing change, embracing,
pivoting to find that spot thatworks.
And one degree today is doingreally well.
They have actually started withpet insurance in Hong Kong, a
(21:52):
line of business that was in themarket for several years yet
already, and a lot of them, alot of people working in that
space told them, like you know,we don't see a lot of
opportunity there, but onedegree identified that it was
not marketed right.
So they were able to come inand disrupt the market and even
grow the market for the overallinsurance industry in Hong Kong
(22:15):
by, you know, putting a focus onthat and putting a new twist
and, you know, also lookingproduct design.
You know the reason theydecided to go down that
difficult road of studying inlicense insurance carrier in the
first place so that control onunderwriting, on pricing etc.
Is what made them reallysuccessful in that space.
And then you know consequentlythey added other businesses as
(22:39):
well.
Folumy (22:40):
The reason why I wanted us to dive into one degree is
also because, like you said, forthe Hong Kong market, back in
Nigeria as well, you are notable to purchase or obtain new
licenses from the regulators.
You either have to, you know,merge or acquire an existing
insurance organization orcompany.
This has been quite difficultfor, like insha texts that are
(23:04):
looking to innovate and to whatit is is insha text, then would
have to maybe get like an agencylicense or an aggregated
license and then come on boardor a macro insurance license,
whichever are the cases, andthen a partner with existing
insurance organizations.
So this, in a way, it'sactually a new innovative
(23:25):
approach to looking at inshatext that are looking to
underwrite their own insurancethemselves and, you know, carry
on that risk and distribute theway or, however they want to,
you know, via, like you know,virtual channels.
So, again, this is one way thatyou know keeps home.
Theresa Blissing (23:42):
Want to emphasize something right.
Just because regulation sayssomething is not possible should
not necessarily be ashowstopper.
If you really see value and ifyou, the most important thing is
, is that something that thepeople would like and would?
Because, at the end, the roleof the regulator is to make sure
(24:03):
that consumers are protected.
But if this is something thatconsumers are benefiting from,
you know you can still go.
And I think a lot of issuesaround innovation and insurance
has been that insurancecompanies have been hiding
behind regulations that like, oh, we would love to do something,
but we can't.
You know it's a shame, but theregulator won't allow us.
(24:23):
So you know we don't bother.
But and that's, I think, howinshotex around the globe has
really reshaped this narrativeon you know, working with the
regulator and you can.
You have seen this in otherareas as well.
Right, like when Uber firstcame up If you can show the
regulator that there's anopportunity and that consumers
will benefit from it, thenthere's no reason why you can't
(24:47):
change regulation.
Folumy (24:48):
Absolutely, absolutely.
We're just going to move on toAdita, because Adita really like
deciding your book is like thefuture of insurance.
I enjoyed, or I love, theirbusiness model, as well as the
business strategy.
And then customer sensitivityis one key factor that I think a
(25:09):
lot of people miss out on,especially when they're entering
a market.
Innovation is amazing,technology is great.
Once you miss that customerneed and one for a product, that
can change the entire cost ofthe business.
Theresa Blissing (25:24):
So if you just walk us through Adita, focusing
on this customer sensitivity aswell as technology, Okay, sure,
yeah, actually I was debatingand I explained in the chapter
why I was debating with myselfif I should feature Habitto,
because Habitto they justlaunched in June of this year in
Japan.
Like when I had the firstinterviews with them they were
(25:48):
not even live yet.
And then the question is do youfeature such an early stage
startup where you don't know ifthey will make it right?
Like what I said earlier, 90%of startups fail.
But I felt it was a really goodaddition to the book because it
shows the cycle of innovation.
So Samantha Jotti, the founderof Habitio and the CEO, she
(26:13):
originally worked in Europe,originally from Italy, worked in
the UK, worked in the US andthen got the opportunity to come
to Asia and work at the deputyCEO for SingLife.
So SingLife was the first newlife insurance company in
Singapore and actually thefounder of SingLife wrote the
(26:33):
forward to my book, walter theOdor.
So, sam, she worked with Walterat SingLife and what they have
built was a whole product whichis not an insurance component
but basically a payment debitcard like a banking stack,
essentially to used this as apull product and designed it as
(26:56):
a digital first, mobile first.
That's what really Sam wasfocusing on when she came to
join SingLife.
Singlife later acquired AvivaSingapore, which is just crazy
in my opinion.
So a company that started in2017, I think it was in 2020,
acquired Aviva Singapore, whichwas much larger than them, and
(27:21):
they designed a very interestingway to be able to do that
acquisition, and Walter speaksin the forward about that.
So, after SingLife had acquiredAviva Singapore the biggest
insurance deal in Singapore'shistory Sam and also Walter and
some others from the team theyleft SingLife and Walter started
(27:43):
a new company called ChocolateFinance in Singapore.
But Sam took a lot of thelessons she learned from working
at SingLife, but alsothroughout her career, and
wanted to point that at a muchbigger market, and that's when
they came to Japan.
Now, japan is also a reallydifficult market to tap into,
(28:06):
especially if you are aforeigner, because it's very
insulated.
Language barrier is a thing,cultural differences is a thing,
and also Japan is a very maledominated industry.
So you know, number one amazingthat Sam, as a foreigner,
started this company in Japanand what they were aiming for is
(28:30):
.
So Japan is the country in theworld with the highest median
age.
I believe it's 48,.
They have a huge issue with theaging population, and what is
also the case is that I thinkover 50% of the country's wealth
is with people that are 65years and older.
So naturally, financialinstitutions have been focusing
(28:53):
on this, like older demographic,and agency distribution is like
the number one distributionchannel in Japan.
But they have lost sight of theyounger generation, like
millennials.
And so what Havito did whenthey decided to go into the
Japanese market, they did a lotof research and they also talked
(29:13):
to psychologists, and what theydiscovered is that the younger
generation in Japan has a lot offinancial anxiety because, you
know again, an aging populationputs a lot of pressure on any
society when it comes toretirement, etc.
So a lot of people age 30, theyare really worried if they can
(29:35):
afford to retire, you know, ifthey will be able to take care
of their aging parents, if theywill be able to afford education
for their kids, etc.
So this is when Havito came in,and they are operating under a
new license that was rolled outby the regulator.
So in this case, it was reallya regulatory opening that
(29:56):
enabled them to start thatbusiness model in Japan.
So what they are doing is theyare able, under this new license
, to distribute a range offinancial products, so banking
products, management products,but also insurance products.
Now, their pull product verymuch to what they have
experienced or built withSingLife in Singapore was that
(30:19):
they have a bank account with aleading interest rate.
So that is what is pullingcustomers in, because they want
to get that bank account wherethey can get the most interest
for their money.
And, interestingly enough, thecompany is financing these high
interest rates with theircustomer acquisition costs,
which, in the long run, is notsustainable.
(30:40):
But that is why they reallyneed to evolve this model and
start upselling, cross-sellingother products, and that is when
insurance comes in.
Right, and they have builtessentially a mobile-first
digital experience, but theystill have human financial
advisors.
So people have the opportunityto talk to financial advisors,
(31:03):
but in a digital manner.
They have an app, they can textwith their advisor, they can
have video calls, etc.
I think that is what is reallypowerful about Habito.
They have the technology andthey have a large emphasis on
technology, because that's alsowhat makes the business model
scalable, but at the same time,they have that human component,
(31:24):
that empathy, that talking topsychologists about what is it
that people are fearing when itcomes to financial freedom right
and really combine this in ameaningful way.
So, technology to make iteasily accessible, efficient,
great user journey, but stillhave that human component.
(31:46):
Because at least when it comesto more complex insurance
products like life insurance,health insurance, I think most
of all still want to talk to ahuman person.
But maybe the youngergeneration does not want to
engage with an agent, arrange ameeting, having them come to
your home, and it might notcater to the younger generation
(32:07):
and that's really what Habito isdoing.
Folumy (32:10):
It was quite interesting because, looking at the aging
population as well, for theshift in demographic, I think
this is also one that isreplicated as well in Africa.
You have the more vibrantyouths within the age range I
think we have the youth vibrancyfrom about mid-20s to three,
(32:31):
all the way to like 35.
And this is like the largertrunk of the population size,
right.
And then we have the old money.
We have understood financialliteracy, the private group with
financial literacy, sincethey're just starting out,
probably be on the lookout forHabito and see how they are able
to then upscale with thisbusiness model.
(32:54):
I think it's all in compactingand, yeah, one of the very
future of insurance.
Yeah, correct, you just dippedthat into Ping An, and the
reason why we also wanted tohave a view at Ping An is
because I'm just going to givelike sort of an insight into
what we currently have forexisting events.
I mean, I work for AXA, mypartner also works for AXA, so
(33:18):
this just sort of touched onright.
We've had financial institutionsor we've had financial
conglomerates back home whereyou have people dealing in the
financial services, talkingabout securities, you're talking
about banking, you're talkingabout insurance, and then you're
talking about maybe wealth orpensions and all of that, but
(33:41):
there is no synergy or there isno integration into that
ecosystem.
So you just have people.
Yeah, we are like a group, so Ilike the group, but then you
don't have that cross-selling,up-selling, you don't have a
ecosystem that has been createdover time and then technology
also is a bigger part of it.
(34:02):
I just want to use touch-basedon how Pingan has been able to
develop that ecosystem withscaling vertically, also
establishing their own start-uplike good doctor, for instance,
and how they've been able toleverage on technology through
them.
You know, like I don't want tosay distraught, but that's
pretty much what they've done.
Theresa Blissing (34:23):
I was really, really excited that I got the
opportunity to talk to thePingan team and completely to
Jonathan Larson, who is theChief Innovation Officer on
Pingan and also the CEO of theGlobal Voyager Fund.
So Pingan only started in 1988.
And when Pingan started inChina, they were hardly any
(34:44):
privately owned cars.
Today, pingan is the largestmotor insurer in the world.
So companies like AXA, who havebeen around for, you know, over
a century and who are alsooperating in China right, like a
lot of people say, yeah, butChina is a big market yet.
But AXA is also operating inChina and in general, it is a
(35:05):
lot of these big internationalcompanies, but Pingan is really
a giant amongst giants.
It's the second largest insurerin the world today.
So how did they get to that?
And I think one of the reasonsthey have been so successful is
to, in a way, preserve theirentrepreneurial spirit and to be
(35:26):
able to connect differentbusinesses in a meaningful way,
like you mentioned, like youknow how they grow horizontally.
So some of you might have heardabout the Pingan ecosystem
strategy.
So Pingan is not only aninsurance company, but they have
launched different venturesthat are not necessarily
directly connected to insurance.
(35:47):
You just mentioned Pingan GoodDoctor.
So Pingan Good Doctor is avirtual clinic and health care
service in China.
When they first started it andthat is, I think, what Pingan is
doing really well like whenthey start a new venture, they
really treat it as a start.
So a lot of insurers who haveembarked on corporate venture
(36:10):
building what they do is theystaff such companies or such
ventures with people from withinthe organization, like the head
of IT is now also running thattech venture, and that is often
difficult because running astartup is very different to
running an established insurancecompany.
(36:31):
It has a different mindset, ithas different challenges and
also, to be able to attract theright talent, it is better to
really have it separate, andthat is what Pingan did Like.
They created a separate venture, they got investors, they hired
a team, not from the insuranceincumbent, but a lot of them
were actually coming fromAlibaba, which had started in
(36:54):
China as a digital platform, andinitially Pingan was helping
Pingan Good Doctor to scale bytelling their insurance clients
about this new digital healthoffering.
But what has happened now overtime and Pingan Good Doctor is
just one example there's alsoAutoHome, which is like one stop
(37:15):
shop for everything.
So what is happening now isthat Pingan gets 35% of its new
business from its ecosystempartner.
So people who are like on thePingan Good Doctor platform or
people who are users of theAutoHome company right, so they
(37:36):
are able to use this as a funnelto then attract them to also
buy insurance products.
But again, what is remarkable isnot that they set it up with
the idea of okay, this is goingto be another funnel for
insurance.
I think that is where a lot ofinsurance companies are failing.
Ping An really set it up as anindependent business with
(38:00):
independent revenue goals, etcetera.
Ping An Good Doctor today is alisted company, but then
connecting it in a meaningfulway and that can go in different
perspectives, right.
Like when Pingan Good Doctorfirst started, it was Ping An
Insurance that supported Ping AnGood Doctor to get their first
users, but then after a whilethe effect reversed.
(38:23):
So now Ping An Good Doctor isoperating as kind of a funnel
for new insurance clients forPing An.
So that is really impressive.
What is also impressive is thatPing An defines itself as a
technology first company.
So they have a huge emphasis ontechnology.
But what they are also doing isthey are not only keeping the
(38:45):
technology to themselves, andthat is again something a lot of
the big insurance companies aredoing Like they develop their
own tech and they see it astheir competitive advantage.
But the reality is developing astate-of-the-art tax debt is
really expensive becausetechnology evolves so rapidly if
you just look at the rise ofchat GPT in this year alone.
(39:06):
So you constantly need toupdate it so it doesn't become a
legacy and it stays top of theart and what Pingan is doing.
They are actually alsoexporting their technology.
So in the book there is anexample that through their
global Voyager Fund, they havetaken a stake in a US startup
(39:27):
called Snapsheak.
So they are working in the USmarket when it comes to motor.
Now Snapsheak is working with,I believe, seven out of the top
10 motor insurers in the US.
Now, with Pingan's investmentin the company, they also
started using some of theirvisual flames technology they
(39:49):
have developed in China anddeploy it with Snapsheak in the
US.
So arguably, through thatpartnership and through the
strategic investment, they areworking in the disguise of
Snapsheak with some of thelargest insurance players in the
US market.
This is not only great becausethey were able to monetize their
(40:10):
tech stuff, which enables themto then spend more money on tech
innovation, but it also helpsthem to improve the model,
because everyone who is familiarwith AI and machine learning
the more data you feed into analgorithm, the better it gets.
Then you can argue that you havemaybe different cars in the US
(40:33):
than compared to what you havein China.
By adding more variety to themodel, more data to the model,
you improve it, which then PingAn in China is again benefiting
from.
It's really unique how Ping Anhas built this range of
different companies that areoperating in different areas,
like Auto Home, good Doctor, butalso the tech stack they have
(40:56):
built.
Wherever there is anopportunity to monetize their
technology or just build a newbusiness model in itself, they
are jumping it, and it doesn'tneed to be directly related to
insurance.
It's not about guiding your owninnovation and seeing it at a
competitive advantage, butseeing the competitive advantage
(41:16):
and expanding horizontally andalso monetize different parts in
different ways.
That is what is really uniqueand probably at least one of the
reasons why Ping An is todaysecond largest insurer in the
world.
Folumy (41:31):
Amazing.
I like the fact that, in thewords of the CCO for AXA who,
would say that we should becoopetitive rather than engaging
competitions, and that'scollaboration with competitions.
I think that's what Ping An hasbeen able to do with their
technology infrastructure.
I think that's just the way togo.
(41:51):
If you just talk about wherepeople can get the book and how
they could access you, whatmedia platforms you are really
on for other discussions aroundthe book?
Theresa Blissing (42:04):
Yeah, sure, the book is actually called the
Future of Insurance, volume 4,because it's a sports book in
the Future of Insurance seriesand then Asia Rising.
So if you go to Amazon, all theAmazon stores have the
paperback and hardcover issue ofthe book.
There's also an Amazon Audibleaudiobook which I recorded,
(42:25):
which was, frankly, probably themost difficult in the whole
bookwriting experience, but,yeah, and there's also a Kindle
e-book version.
Just search for the Future ofInsurance, asia Rising, or just
search for my name.
It's actually a very uniquename.
That's also the reason why Idid not take my husband's last
(42:46):
name, theresa Blessing.
There it seems to be only onein the world which is me.
So, yeah, if you want toconnect with me on LinkedIn,
instagram, feel free to send aconnection request.
Thank you very much.
Folumy (42:58):
Theresa for coming to this session.
Theresa Blissing (43:01):
Thank you so Folumy for having me Also on the
day of the release of my book.
Thank you so much.
I really love chatting with you.
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